Discussion Thread 2007 (Part 6)

[Luke Davis]

This was fun, Luke. You have to give longer answers like this more often! :)

jmoThanks for all your comments, too many for me to reply to. What I don't get is why didn't Deepak and Satish lie this time around. You say you think they were all in on it. If so, why didn't they lie and say Joran did it?

Let's say all of them murdered Natalee. They all took her out and dumped her. Now, Deepak and Satish could say Joran did it. They could tell where Joran dumped the body. The body would be found. Deepak and Satish would be believed. But no, they didn't do that.

I'm thinking Aruba is where the Dutch put their worst prosecuters.

[HiLife]

Thanks for all your comments, too many for me to reply to. What I don't get is why didn't Deepak and Satish lie this time around. You say you think they were all in on it. If so, why didn't they lie and say Joran did it?

Let's say all of them murdered Natalee. They all took her out and dumped her. Now, Deepak and Satish could say Joran did it. They could tell where Joran dumped the body. The body would be found. Deepak and Satish would be believed. But no, they didn't do that.

I'm thinking Aruba is where the Dutch put their worst prosecuters.
I understand what you are saying. The Kalpoes could easily "gang up" (oops, there's that word again! :eek: ) on Joran, lie, and say he did it alone. But I think even the Kalpoes must realize that it would be too many lies to try to cover for.

OR, maybe they inadvertently said something in the beginning of the case (to maybe their lawyer or Paulus who was "helping" them initially) and cannot attempt blaming Joran alone.

LOL, You could be right....like a Prosecutor Penal Colony! :biggrin:

jmo

[Grandad]

<snip>

I'm thinking Aruba is where the Dutch put their worst prosecuters.

The prosecutors on Law and Order couldn't prosecute this case successfully.

[SukiJane]

You snipped my post to change the context so that you could take a shot. It's that simple.

You got caught. You always do.

This is way out of line, in my opinion. You wrote your post as if you were giving two different reasons for your thoughts on why you didn't think they were guilty of anything.

One, their age.

Two, not cracking.

jmo

[HiLife]

This is way out of line, in my opinion. You wrote your post as if you were giving two different reasons for your thoughts on why you didn't think they were guilty of anything.

One, their age.

Two, not cracking.

jmo

Thanks, you said that better than I! I chose the first reason - their age.

[ortiga]

The prosecutors on Law and Order couldn't prosecute this case successfully.


Who's that actor that's running for president? Didn't he used to be on Law and Order? Maybe Twitty should hire him to persecute the boys.

[ortiga]

no IMO John did not want it discussed in public but some interviews Beth talked about it and in others she wanted her private life kept private :shrug:


I was almost embarrassed for her. She would volunteer a bunch of syrupy stuff about her new relationship, naming Ramsey....then get all huffy in the next interview the next day if an interviewer asked about the same thing.

I remember the radio interviewer who suddenly cut her off when she pulled that phoney indignation (my private life is private) on him. Can't remember his name, though.

IMO

[ortiga]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QN2u6sHbaY

800,000 missing kids in USA every year

[Grandad]

Who's that actor that's running for president? Didn't he used to be on Law and Order? Maybe Twitty should hire him to persecute the boys.

Fred Thompson?

I believe he left the show once before to run for the senate, and was successful.

[Grandad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QN2u6sHbaY

800,000 missing kids in USA every year

I posted statistics from the FBI a long time ago that show more than 90% of these kids are confirmed runaways because they're found almost immediately, they return home, or they stay in contact with someone for a period of time.

Only a very small percentage are presumed to have been kidnapped or murdered.

I liked the "life coach" in the video. I wonder what qualifies one to be a life coach, and if Jug met that criteria.

[fairmaiden]

I understand what you are saying. The Kalpoes could easily "gang up" (oops, there's that word again! :eek: ) on Joran, lie, and say he did it alone. But I think even the Kalpoes must realize that it would be too many lies to try to cover for.

OR, maybe they inadvertently said something in the beginning of the case (to maybe their lawyer or Paulus who was "helping" them initially) and cannot attempt blaming Joran alone.

LOL, You could be right....like a Prosecutor Penal Colony! :biggrin:

jmo

I'm curious, HiLife .... what is it you think "they" did ?? Did it include kidnap, gang-rape, and murder ?? Did it include voluntary manslaughter ?? Is it just that you think "they" were involved, but you don't have an opinion as to HOW they were involved ?? Is it because Natalee left with them, so they MUST be involved somehow ??

The reason I ask, is because for the past 2 plus years, posters who think they ARE involved, never seem to be able to say HOW. I'm asking for your OWN opinion now .... not what they were SUSPECTED of ((which ultimately changed, IMO from kidnap, rape and murder, to voluntary manslaughter)).

Obviously "they" refers to Joran et al.

And, obviously one HAS to take into consideration their ages at the time .... the fact they spent MONTHS in jail .... the fact they have been focused on for a long time .... and STILL there apparently is no evidence of a violent crime.

ETA .... I should ask .... do you actually feel entire countries are involved in some huge conspiracy to hide the truth .... which would ultimately have to include the FBI, IMO ??

JMO

[ortiga]

I posted statistics from the FBI a long time ago that show more than 90% of these kids are confirmed runaways because they're found almost immediately, they return home, or they stay in contact with someone for a period of time.

Only a very small percentage are presumed to have been kidnapped or murdered.

I liked the "life coach" in the video. I wonder what qualifies one to be a life coach, and if Jug met that criteria.

I kinda tuned her out when I heard "life coach".

[ortiga]

I'm curious, HiLife .... what is it you think "they" did ?? Did it include kidnap, gang-rape, and murder ?? Did it include voluntary manslaughter ?? Is it just that you think "they" were involved, but you don't have an opinion as to HOW they were involved ?? Is it because Natalee left with them, so they MUST be involved somehow ??

The reason I ask, is because for the past 2 plus years, posters who think they ARE involved, never seem to be able to say HOW. I'm asking for your OWN opinion now .... not what they were SUSPECTED of ((which ultimately changed, IMO from kidnap, rape and murder, to voluntary manslaughter)).

Obviously "they" refers to Joran et al.

And, obviously one HAS to take into consideration their ages at the time .... the fact they spent MONTHS in jail .... the fact they have been focused on for a long time .... and STILL there apparently is no evidence of a violent crime.

ETA .... I should ask .... do you actually feel entire countries are involved in some huge conspiracy to hide the truth .... which would ultimately have to include the FBI, IMO ??

JMO

It must be so easy to see everything in B & W and just KNOW the boys are "guilty" and Aruba (an island) is "bad".

Then you pose that little question....quilty of what, and ....How......

[Grandad]

It must be so easy to see everything in B & W and just KNOW the boys are "guilty" and Aruba (an island) is "bad".

Then you pose that little question....quilty of what, and ....How......

Early on, on the original forum on CTV, posters actually said, "I know it in my heart", and, "I feel it in my gut."

I've always thought those posters were lucky they were never bit by the gambling bug.

[fairmaiden]

It must be so easy to see everything in B & W and just KNOW the boys are "guilty" and Aruba (an island) is "bad".

Then you pose that little question....quilty of what, and ....How......

I agree with you, ortiga. I was trying to post part of HiLife's response to Luke.

****There are too many lies for them not to have done it, Luke. Nothing about their stories match, among other reasons.****

That's my question .... not to have done WHAT?? When was the last time we ((all of us)) actually HEARD "stories" . To my knowledge, we ((all of us)) haven't heard a word from the Kalpoe Brothers ((unless I've missed it)). We ((all of us )) have no idea what questions were asked of them during interrogation.

I agree with you .... to "generalize" about Aruba is just wrong. To "feel in your gut" Joran et al are guilty ((again of what??)), really isn't enough, is it ??

JMO

[ortiga]

Early on, on the original forum on CTV, posters actually said, "I know it in my heart", and, "I feel it in my gut."

I've always thought those posters were lucky they were never bit by the gambling bug.


And not just message boarders....My mother's intuition tells me that the "men" are guilty of predation, kidnapping, gang rape and taking her life.

As though that's all we need to proceed, because they are foreigners.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

I kinda tuned her out when I heard "life coach".
Is that a modern term for godfather?

[SukiJane]

I'm curious, HiLife .... what is it you think "they" did ?? Did it include kidnap, gang-rape, and murder ?? Did it include voluntary manslaughter ?? Is it just that you think "they" were involved, but you don't have an opinion as to HOW they were involved ?? Is it because Natalee left with them, so they MUST be involved somehow ??

The reason I ask, is because for the past 2 plus years, posters who think they ARE involved, never seem to be able to say HOW. I'm asking for your OWN opinion now .... not what they were SUSPECTED of ((which ultimately changed, IMO from kidnap, rape and murder, to voluntary manslaughter)).

Obviously "they" refers to Joran et al.

And, obviously one HAS to take into consideration their ages at the time .... the fact they spent MONTHS in jail .... the fact they have been focused on for a long time .... and STILL there apparently is no evidence of a violent crime.

ETA .... I should ask .... do you actually feel entire countries are involved in some huge conspiracy to hide the truth .... which would ultimately have to include the FBI, IMO ??

JMO

My opinion if interested.

I think Joran drugged Natalee and I think he sexually assaulted her. I think the drugs he gave her mixed with alcohol caused her death. My opinion on the drugging part is based on a couple of girls mentioned in statements, and Karen's statement where she said she was given something by Joran that made her lips go numb, also Joran's comment about doing this 20 times before and nothing bad happened, and Jacob's warning to the family to keep their drinks covered at Carlos and Charlies. I think Joran lied to the girls by saying he was a foreign exchange student so he wouldn't appear to be just another sleazy local, and I think he gained their confidence. I think Joran went to the bar near closing looking for one girl for him and the boys, for this was part of their island boys having fun scene. Oh, and I believe there was probably a camera involved.

I believe he sexually assaulted Natalee in the car, in front of his friends. Satish putting in the video, and Deepak giving a description of where Joran's hand was on Natalee, while he was supposed to be driving, all lead me to believe that Deepak and Satish were enjoying the show. All this while Natalee was going in and out of conciousness.

It is my opinion that all three boys had a plan that night, and it is my opinion there are other boys involved.

Whoever was called in for the final disposal of the body did a damn good job. So good, there is not one shred of evidence that we know about that Natalee ever left Deepak's car.

Paulus' famous words, no body, no case for without a body nothing can be proven without a doubt.

MOO

[Grandad]

My opinion if interested.
<snip>
there is not one shred of evidence that we know about that Natalee ever left Deepak's car.

<snip>


If Natalee never left Deepak's car wouldn't ALE have noticed her when they searched the car?

[fairmaiden]

My opinion if interested.

I think Joran drugged Natalee and I think he sexually assaulted her. I think the drugs he gave her mixed with alcohol caused her death. My opinion on the drugging part is based on a couple of girls mentioned in statements, and Karen's statement where she said she was given something by Joran that made her lips go numb, also Joran's comment about doing this 20 times before and nothing bad happened, and Jacob's warning to the family to keep their drinks covered at Carlos and Charlies. I think Joran lied to the girls by saying he was a foreign exchange student so he wouldn't appear to be just another sleazy local, and I think he gained their confidence. I think Joran went to the bar near closing looking for one girl for him and the boys, for this was part of their island boys having fun scene. Oh, and I believe there was probably a camera involved.

I believe he sexually assaulted Natalee in the car, in front of his friends. Satish putting in the video, and Deepak giving a description of where Joran's hand was on Natalee, while he was supposed to be driving, all lead me to believe that Deepak and Satish were enjoying the show. All this while Natalee was going in and out of conciousness.

It is my opinion that all three boys had a plan that night, and it is my opinion there are other boys involved.

Whoever was called in for the final disposal of the body did a damn good job. So good, there is not one shred of evidence that we know about that Natalee ever left Deepak's car.

Paulus' famous words, no body, no case for without a body nothing can be proven without a doubt.

MOO

Suki .... Do you believe Joran et al raped Natalee also. Beth's contention is that Deepak admitted on international television that they ALL "raped" Natalee. Do you believe that?? Do you believe what was aired on Dr. Phil was NOT altered ??

JMO

[SukiJane]

Suki .... Do you believe Joran et al raped Natalee also. Beth's contention is that Deepak admitted on international television that they ALL "raped" Natalee. Do you believe that?? Do you believe what was aired on Dr. Phil was NOT altered ??

JMO

My theory has nothing to do with Beth's contention. Why does it always have to be about what Beth thinks?

I am curious to know why ALE arrested the boys for suspicion of rape, and since there is so much that we don't know from the night of where they went, like Joran's house, or the lighthouse, or the beach, it's really hard to piece together much of anything really. I am curious how Joran would be able to see so much detail on Natalee's underwear. Surely it had to be outside the car somewhere with some light and some space.

I'm not sure what to believe from the Deepak tape. I'm not sure why Deepak would say if Natalee dressed like a **** (of course we know this as a lie, because we all saw what Natalee was wearing), and talked like a ****, why he would then later say he didn't have sex with her. It would seem to me this type of person in Deepak's eyes would be a person that would be easy to have sex with. At one time I sort of felt sorry for Deepak, but I believe he knew he was being taped, and he used that opportunity to throw several slams at the family and at Natalee, perhaps he did say they all had sex with her, it wasn't as if Skeeter asked him if he raped her. We just haven't heard enough from Deepak to actually get any kind of feeling of what kind of person he really is.

jmo

[Chocoholic]

Why were they detained? I think it's been explained a few hundred times.

[fairmaiden]

My theory has nothing to do with Beth's contention. Why does it always have to be about what Beth thinks?

I am curious to know why ALE arrested the boys for suspicion of rape, and since there is so much that we don't know from the night of where they went, like Joran's house, or the lighthouse, or the beach, it's really hard to piece together much of anything really. I am curious how Joran would be able to see so much detail on Natalee's underwear. Surely it had to be outside the car somewhere with some light and some space.

I'm not sure what to believe from the Deepak tape. I'm not sure why Deepak would say if Natalee dressed like a **** (of course we know this as a lie, because we all saw what Natalee was wearing), and talked like a ****, why he would then later say he didn't have sex with her. It would seem to me this type of person in Deepak's eyes would be a person that would be easy to have sex with. At one time I sort of felt sorry for Deepak, but I believe he knew he was being taped, and he used that opportunity to throw several slams at the family and at Natalee, perhaps he did say they all had sex with her, it wasn't as if Skeeter asked him if he raped her. We just haven't heard enough from Deepak to actually get any kind of feeling of what kind of person he really is.

jmo

It was just a question, Suki. The reason I mentioned Beth, is because I believe Beth used what aired on Dr. Phil, as a "confession" by Deepak that they all raped her. She SAYS that !! Did Deepak appear anywhere else, and admit that they all raped Natalee?? I don't believe so. My BIG question about what aired there is .... IF this was a so-called confession they all raped her, why wasn't it turned over as "evidence"?? Why was it aired at all??

You're correct, Suki .... I believe Skeeter's question was ((perhaps para.)) .... "I believe she had sex with all of you". It wasn't even in the form of a question .... more like a statement. Nothing about "rape" at all.

This really DID begin LOTS of questions for me. I believe it was altered, and IF it was .... why would someone do that ?? It was obviously important to SOMEONE to get it out there that "they all" seemingly raped Natalee.

JMO

[HiLife]

It was just a question, Suki. The reason I mentioned Beth, is because I believe Beth used what aired on Dr. Phil, as a "confession" by Deepak that they all raped her. She SAYS that !! Did Deepak appear anywhere else, and admit that they all raped Natalee?? I don't believe so. My BIG question about what aired there is .... IF this was a so-called confession they all raped her, why wasn't it turned over as "evidence"?? Why was it aired at all??

You're correct, Suki .... I believe Skeeter's question was ((perhaps para.)) .... "I believe she had sex with all of you". It wasn't even in the form of a question .... more like a statement. Nothing about "rape" at all.

This really DID begin LOTS of questions for me. I believe it was altered, and IF it was .... why would someone do that ?? It was obviously important to SOMEONE to get it out there that "they all" seemingly raped Natalee.

JMO

It would appear the problem is the word "rape" and our different perceptions of what that constitutes. I hesitate to post this......but Why is it such a stretch to think all 3 raped Natalee? If it was against Natalee's will in any way - it was rape. Now, can you honestly say Natalee would willingly submit to all 3??? This flies in the face of what is known about Natalee, from both her mother's and her friends' perspectives and I can say, even about most girls.

Also, as an aside, why would Skeeters ask Deepak outright - "did you rape her?" or "We know you raped her" - Deepak wouldn't have answered, instead Skeeters took a friendlier approach, like (paraphrased) "I'm sure all of you had sex with her" - why would he be confrontational? I'm not sure why you don't understand this.

Suki makes an excellent point about Deepak and the s*** comment (Natalee was dressed like all the other girls in the photos from the trip and nowhere near like a s***), and about how Deepak saw what joran was doing while driving. Is this how Deepak rationalized his participation?

In answer to your previous question in another post to me, this is a general idea I have about what I think happened:

To me, they are ALL in this together. I believe Joran drugged her drink. As they drove , I believe Joran began the kissing and petting. (Did this also turn the other 2 on? or did the p orn video they put on turn them on?) I believe maybe that is why Deepak stopped the car. At some point they stopped and I believe Joran and maybe one of the Kalpoes (I believe it to have been Deepak) had raped her while she progessively went in and out of consciousness.

Soon, the drug/drink combo had an unexpected, deadly effect on Natalee, perhaps in combination with her shock, fear and struggle against the assault. She died. I believe the 3 panicked, probably got help, and I believe this other person is the one who hid the body and hid it well!

Like Suki, at first, I felt Deepak was a minor player, but after reading all his online statements/actions, I believe he is quite cunning and an accomplished liar in his own right. I believe all 3 are involved because they are not blaming one another. I also have Mr. Carlo, Joran's lawyer, in the back of my mind, going to Karin Janssen and saying (paraphrased) he felt his client (Joran) was involved.

You keep trying to tell us there isn't any evidence of anything. And it does seem you need evidence of a "confession" in your statement above (highlighted). Wouldn't it be nice if every case could have a video or confession - but thank god, the guilty are convicted by other means. When investigators put the pieces of the puzzle together, they can come up with a whole, pretty accurate picture of what happened. They've probably seen this type of scenario time and time again in their careers.

Oh, there is TONS of (circumstantial) evidence. True, the Kalpoes have been the most quiet, yet we have the statements by Deepak and Satish and we can logically piece what Paulus, Joran and others have said to see that all 3 of these men are in this up to their eyeballs.

jmo

[ortiga]

It would appear the problem is the word "rape" and our different perceptions of what that constitutes. I hesitate to post this......but Why is it such a stretch to think all 3 raped Natalee? If it was against Natalee's will in any way - it was rape. Now, can you honestly say Natalee would willingly submit to all 3??? This flies in the face of what is known about Natalee, from both her mother's and her friends' perspectives and I can say, even about most girls.

Also, as an aside, why would Skeeters ask Deepak outright - "did you rape her?" or "We know you raped her" - Deepak wouldn't have answered, instead Skeeters took a friendlier approach, like (paraphrased) "I'm sure all of you had sex with her" - why would he be confrontational? I'm not sure why you don't understand this.

Suki makes an excellent point about Deepak and the s*** comment (Natalee was dressed like all the other girls in the photos from the trip and nowhere near like a s***), and about how Deepak saw what joran was doing while driving. Is this how Deepak rationalized his participation?

In answer to your previous question in another post to me, this is a general idea I have about what I think happened:

To me, they are ALL in this together. I believe Joran drugged her drink. As they drove , I believe Joran began the kissing and petting. (Did this also turn the other 2 on? or did the p orn video they put on turn them on?) I believe maybe that is why Deepak stopped the car. At some point they stopped and I believe Joran and maybe one of the Kalpoes (I believe it to have been Deepak) had raped her while she progessively went in and out of consciousness.

Soon, the drug/drink combo had an unexpected, deadly effect on Natalee, perhaps in combination with her shock, fear and struggle against the assault. She died. I believe the 3 panicked, probably got help, and I believe this other person is the one who hid the body and hid it well!

Like Suki, at first, I felt Deepak was a minor player, but after reading all his online statements/actions, I believe he is quite cunning and an accomplished liar in his own right. I believe all 3 are involved because they are not blaming one another. I also have Mr. Carlo, Joran's lawyer, in the back of my mind, going to Karin Janssen and saying (paraphrased) he felt his client (Joran) was involved.

You keep trying to tell us there isn't any evidence of anything. And it does seem you need evidence of a "confession" in your statement above (highlighted). Wouldn't it be nice if every case could have a video or confession - but thank god, the guilty are convicted by other means. When investigators put the pieces of the puzzle together, they can come up with a whole, pretty accurate picture of what happened. They've probably seen this type of scenario time and time again in their careers.

Oh, there is TONS of (circumstantial) evidence. True, the Kalpoes have been the most quiet, yet we have the statements by Deepak and Satish and we can logically piece what Paulus, Joran and others have said to see that all 3 of these men are in this up to their eyeballs.

jmo

But we don't know how Natalee was dressed once she left the bar.

This is what Deepak said "the Aruban people, we, our familes, to tell you, quite frankly, we gave enough for someone, to tell you the truth, dressed like a s lut, talked like one, was a racist… "
http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61


IMO

[ortiga]

snipped It was obviously important to SOMEONE to get it out there that "they all" seemingly raped Natalee.

JMO

Absolutely.

[ortiga]

My theory has nothing to do with Beth's contention. Why does it always have to be about what Beth thinks?

I am curious to know why ALE arrested the boys for suspicion of rape, and since there is so much that we don't know from the night of where they went, like Joran's house, or the lighthouse, or the beach, it's really hard to piece together much of anything really. I am curious how Joran would be able to see so much detail on Natalee's underwear. Surely it had to be outside the car somewhere with some light and some space.

I'm not sure what to believe from the Deepak tape. I'm not sure why Deepak would say if Natalee dressed like a **** (of course we know this as a lie, because we all saw what Natalee was wearing), and talked like a ****, why he would then later say he didn't have sex with her. It would seem to me this type of person in Deepak's eyes would be a person that would be easy to have sex with. At one time I sort of felt sorry for Deepak, but I believe he knew he was being taped, and he used that opportunity to throw several slams at the family and at Natalee, perhaps he did say they all had sex with her, it wasn't as if Skeeter asked him if he raped her. We just haven't heard enough from Deepak to actually get any kind of feeling of what kind of person he really is.

jmo

Skeeter never even stated that they all had sex with her. It was the other way around that he suggested, and to which Deepak said no. Ie Skeeter suggested that Natalee had sex with all of THEM. Very big difference, if it had been true, and if he had said yes.

[ortiga]

My opinion if interested.

I think Joran drugged Natalee and I think he sexually assaulted her. I think the drugs he gave her mixed with alcohol caused her death. My opinion on the drugging part is based on a couple of girls mentioned in statements, and Karen's statement where she said she was given something by Joran that made her lips go numb, also Joran's comment about doing this 20 times before and nothing bad happened, and Jacob's warning to the family to keep their drinks covered at Carlos and Charlies. I think Joran lied to the girls by saying he was a foreign exchange student so he wouldn't appear to be just another sleazy local, and I think he gained their confidence. I think Joran went to the bar near closing looking for one girl for him and the boys, for this was part of their island boys having fun scene. Oh, and I believe there was probably a camera involved.

I believe he sexually assaulted Natalee in the car, in front of his friends. Satish putting in the video, and Deepak giving a description of where Joran's hand was on Natalee, while he was supposed to be driving, all lead me to believe that Deepak and Satish were enjoying the show. All this while Natalee was going in and out of conciousness.

It is my opinion that all three boys had a plan that night, and it is my opinion there are other boys involved.

Whoever was called in for the final disposal of the body did a damn good job. So good, there is not one shred of evidence that we know about that Natalee ever left Deepak's car.

Paulus' famous words, no body, no case for without a body nothing can be proven without a doubt.

MOO

I think girls these days are quite capable of drugging themselves, and both De Vries and Dompig said that Natalee was reported to have drugs in her possession, yet there was no similar report about the boys. Obviously, if some subset of them took drugs, it is more than likely that she supplied them. Since of the 4, she was the only one reported to have drugs.

Fantasy stories are woven and concocted about what happened to Natalee, which of the boys drugged and raped her, etc etc, salacious etc, but the most logical ending to Natalee's life, if it ended that night, was that she probably decided to go for a swim and that bad decision cost her her life.

But that ending is much more mundane and there is no one to blame, and no sexual fantasies on which to ruminate.

IMO

[HiLife]

But we don't know how Natalee was dressed once she left the bar.

This is what Deepak said <snipped>

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61

IMO

We do know. Logic dictates that Natalee's friends knew and saw what Natalee wore at CnC's and a description was most likely given. This has never been disputed. This is moot.

Deepak is a sleaze (and I'm being nice). He's a liar, like Joran. I'd bet Natalee never said those words. Those two were making up lies even before questioned. They both have a vested interest in making Natalee look bad. Too bad, no one, IMO, believes them. Oh, except a few message board posters.

jmo

[ortiga]

We do know. Logic dictates that Natalee's friends knew and saw what Natalee wore at CnC's and a description was most likely given. This has never been disputed. This is moot.

Deepak is a sleaze (and I'm being nice). He's a liar, like Joran. I'd bet Natalee never said those words. Those two were making up lies even before questioned. They both have a vested interest in making Natalee look bad. Too bad, no one, IMO, believes them. Oh, except a few message board posters.

jmo


No, it is not "moot". We do not know how she was dressed in the car or on the beach.

By the way, no one would ever have heard Deepak say what he thought of Natalee had Phil not decided to put it on TV apparently with BHT's complete approval.

[Chocoholic]

<respectfully snipped for length> the most logical ending to Natalee's life, if it ended that night, was that she probably decided to go for a swim and that bad decision cost her her life.

But that ending is much more mundane and there is no one to blame, and no sexual fantasies on which to ruminate.

IMO

Drunken women setting off for a swim in the middle of the night, alone, drowing, don't fill any lovebowls.

[ortiga]

Drunken women setting off for a swim in the middle of the night, alone, drowing, don't fill any lovebowls.

It's like it would just be too normal, too simple. No one to hate, no one to threaten, no one whose life should be wrecked in retaliation.

I just watched Forrest Gump on TV.....remember when he was running across the country and suddenly stopped......all his followers were mad and said "what are we supposed to do NOW!!!"

[HiLife]

No, it is not "moot". We do not know how she was dressed in the car or on the beach.

By the way, no one would ever have heard Deepak say what he thought of Natalee had Phil not decided to put it on TV apparently with BHT's complete approval.

Yes, we do know. She left immediately after CnC's - do you really think she was carrying around extra clothes with her at CnC's to change into? This line of thinking is stretching the bounds of common sense.

jmo

[HiLife]

It's like it would just be too normal, too simple. No one to hate, no one to threaten, no one whose life should be wrecked in retaliation.

I just watched Forrest Gump on TV.....remember when he was running across the country and suddenly stopped......all his followers were mad and said "what are we supposed to do NOW!!!"

It's kinda like when Beth stops doing interviews. ;)

jmo

[ortiga]

Yes, we do know. She left immediately after CnC's - do you really think she was carrying around extra clothes with her at CnC's to change into? This line of thinking is stretching the bounds of common sense.

jmo

No, I stand by my words. We do not know how NH was dressed in the car or on the beach, we do not know why Deepak would think she was dressed like a S*** although he said that in a private, secretly recorded conversation that was subsequently broadcast without his permission.

I think her outfit, the blue one, was not at all risque, but we don't know how she was dressed later on.

[ortiga]

It's kinda like when Beth stops doing interviews. ;)

jmo

You missed the point. Why do you think that posters on this board still rant and rave about a boycott when Beth says she never even supported one, and Dave and his wife have asked that it be discontinued.

"What are we supposed to do NOW"!!

With all the hate.

IMO

[HiLife]

You missed the point. Why do you think that posters on this board still rant and rave about a boycott when Beth says she never even supported one, and Dave and his wife have asked that it be discontinued.

"What are we supposed to do NOW"!!

With all the hate.

IMO

I don't think I missed the point at all! The Forrest Gump analogy was spot on. First, the Beth critics complain Beth is always on TV, then when Beth doesn't do interviews, suddenly stops, all those who criticize don't know what to do with themselves. What to do with all the hate.

jmo

[HiLife]

No, I stand by my words. We do not know how NH was dressed in the car or on the beach, we do not know why Deepak would think she was dressed like a S*** although he said that in a private, secretly recorded conversation that was subsequently broadcast without his permission.

I think her outfit, the blue one, was not at all risque, but we don't know how she was dressed later on.

Guess we'll agree to disagree. That was the outfit she was last seen wearing and it defies logic she changed. What Deepak thinks may be different than what we think. But I do think that living on a tropical island, that he would be used to this type of attire, the attire of young, pretty tourist girls and even much less.

I think Deepak was making Natalee look bad/rationalizing, giving himself some kind of reason to excuse what he did.

jmo

eta - and further thinking about it, why would what Natalee was wearing make a difference to Deepak - she was with Joran, wasn't meant to be with Deepak (or was she, did Joran intend her for all 3?? :eek: ) and didn't see Deepak until she got into the car. Why would it matter to him how she was dressed?

[Chocoholic]

I don't think I missed the point at all! The Forrest Gump analogy was spot on. First, the Beth critics complain Beth is always on TV, then when Beth doesn't do interviews, suddenly stops, all those who criticize don't know what to do with themselves. What to do with all the hate.

jmo

I despise what beth has done to imply and publicly state that J2k are criminals, and beth's followers don't follow into that category, they praise her for her slanderous hateful statements and protect her right to gather donations based on lies.

Hate is far too strong a word, i leave that for the likes of the monkey site who threaten to kill the v.d. Sloots and have had pictures up of Deepak hung.

[Luke Davis]

It's kinda like when Beth stops doing interviews. ;)

jmoIt really is.

:hat:

[SukiJane]

I think girls these days are quite capable of drugging themselves, and both De Vries and Dompig said that Natalee was reported to have drugs in her possession, yet there was no similar report about the boys. Obviously, if some subset of them took drugs, it is more than likely that she supplied them. Since of the 4, she was the only one reported to have drugs.

Fantasy stories are woven and concocted about what happened to Natalee, which of the boys drugged and raped her, etc etc, salacious etc, but the most logical ending to Natalee's life, if it ended that night, was that she probably decided to go for a swim and that bad decision cost her her life.

But that ending is much more mundane and there is no one to blame, and no sexual fantasies on which to ruminate.

IMO

I think it is a stretch to say the foreign visitor was supplying the locals with drugs...

Satish
statement from 05/31/05:

On your question if I have used narcotic substances with the girl:
I answer you no. I also did not see the girl use narcotic substances.

[SukiJane]

No, I stand by my words. We do not know how NH was dressed in the car or on the beach, we do not know why Deepak would think she was dressed like a S*** although he said that in a private, secretly recorded conversation that was subsequently broadcast without his permission.

I think her outfit, the blue one, was not at all risque, but we don't know how she was dressed later on.

Satish
Statement from 05/31/05

On your question if you can me tell what the girl was wearing, I answer you the following:
She wore a blue blouse and a skirt.

[fairmaiden]

It would appear the problem is the word "rape" and our different perceptions of what that constitutes. I hesitate to post this......but Why is it such a stretch to think all 3 raped Natalee? If it was against Natalee's will in any way - it was rape. Now, can you honestly say Natalee would willingly submit to all 3??? This flies in the face of what is known about Natalee, from both her mother's and her friends' perspectives and I can say, even about most girls.

Also, as an aside, why would Skeeters ask Deepak outright - "did you rape her?" or "We know you raped her" - Deepak wouldn't have answered, instead Skeeters took a friendlier approach, like (paraphrased) "I'm sure all of you had sex with her" - why would he be confrontational? I'm not sure why you don't understand this.

Suki makes an excellent point about Deepak and the s*** comment (Natalee was dressed like all the other girls in the photos from the trip and nowhere near like a s***), and about how Deepak saw what joran was doing while driving. Is this how Deepak rationalized his participation?

In answer to your previous question in another post to me, this is a general idea I have about what I think happened:

To me, they are ALL in this together. I believe Joran drugged her drink. As they drove , I believe Joran began the kissing and petting. (Did this also turn the other 2 on? or did the p orn video they put on turn them on?) I believe maybe that is why Deepak stopped the car. At some point they stopped and I believe Joran and maybe one of the Kalpoes (I believe it to have been Deepak) had raped her while she progessively went in and out of consciousness.

Soon, the drug/drink combo had an unexpected, deadly effect on Natalee, perhaps in combination with her shock, fear and struggle against the assault. She died. I believe the 3 panicked, probably got help, and I believe this other person is the one who hid the body and hid it well!

Like Suki, at first, I felt Deepak was a minor player, but after reading all his online statements/actions, I believe he is quite cunning and an accomplished liar in his own right. I believe all 3 are involved because they are not blaming one another. I also have Mr. Carlo, Joran's lawyer, in the back of my mind, going to Karin Janssen and saying (paraphrased) he felt his client (Joran) was involved.

You keep trying to tell us there isn't any evidence of anything. And it does seem you need evidence of a "confession" in your statement above (highlighted). Wouldn't it be nice if every case could have a video or confession - but thank god, the guilty are convicted by other means. When investigators put the pieces of the puzzle together, they can come up with a whole, pretty accurate picture of what happened. They've probably seen this type of scenario time and time again in their careers.

Oh, there is TONS of (circumstantial) evidence. True, the Kalpoes have been the most quiet, yet we have the statements by Deepak and Satish and we can logically piece what Paulus, Joran and others have said to see that all 3 of these men are in this up to their eyeballs.

jmo

Well, there's certainly a lot in your post which requires an answer.

1. "Rape" doesn't have too many meanings, for me at least. It means forced sexual intercourse ((against one's will)). Let's be clear .... I've never said Natalee submitted to having sex with all three. I'm not sure where you got that impression. I don't believe Natalee WAS raped, because I believe what aired on Dr. Phil was a manipulation of what Deepak said in the first place.

2. I don't understand why Skeeter "interviewed" Deepak at all !! If you SAW the "interview", surely you can tell it was not "above board". Correctly, Suki mentioned Skeeter didn't even ASK Deepak about "rape". If you say "he was using a friendlier approach", why did Beth then say "we have one of them admitting to raping Natalee on international television". The word "rape" wasn't even mentioned !!

3. In short, you feel pretty much like Suki does about what happened here, apparently.

4. I'm not the only one saying there is no apparent evidence of a violent crime. After this last fiasco, where all three were again arrested, the Judge, in his ruling, said .... "there is no evidence/indication of a violent crime".

5. I don't believe ANYONE needs a videotape of a crime being committed, or a videotape of a confession, for that matter. However solid evidence IS required. Hans Mos maintained he HAD that, when in fact, he did not, according to everyone .... even John Q. Kelly.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

We do know. Logic dictates that Natalee's friends knew and saw what Natalee wore at CnC's and a description was most likely given. This has never been disputed. This is moot.

Deepak is a sleaze (and I'm being nice). He's a liar, like Joran. I'd bet Natalee never said those words. Those two were making up lies even before questioned. They both have a vested interest in making Natalee look bad. Too bad, no one, IMO, believes them. Oh, except a few message board posters.

jmo

HiLife .... When you make that statement .... "Too bad, no one, IMO, believes them, except a few messageboard posters" .... where do you get that idea ?? That always seems to be tossed out there. If you are going to use "messageboard posters" as an example .... LOTS of them DO question what happened to Natalee. Lots of them DO question whether Joran et al are guilty of anything !! Even going to the CTV board, there are LOTS of questions on that board alone.

JMO

[SukiJane]

It would appear the problem is the word "rape" and our different perceptions of what that constitutes. I hesitate to post this......but Why is it such a stretch to think all 3 raped Natalee? If it was against Natalee's will in any way - it was rape. Now, can you honestly say Natalee would willingly submit to all 3??? This flies in the face of what is known about Natalee, from both her mother's and her friends' perspectives and I can say, even about most girls.

Also, as an aside, why would Skeeters ask Deepak outright - "did you rape her?" or "We know you raped her" - Deepak wouldn't have answered, instead Skeeters took a friendlier approach, like (paraphrased) "I'm sure all of you had sex with her" - why would he be confrontational? I'm not sure why you don't understand this.

Suki makes an excellent point about Deepak and the s*** comment (Natalee was dressed like all the other girls in the photos from the trip and nowhere near like a s***), and about how Deepak saw what joran was doing while driving. Is this how Deepak rationalized his participation?

In answer to your previous question in another post to me, this is a general idea I have about what I think happened:

To me, they are ALL in this together. I believe Joran drugged her drink. As they drove , I believe Joran began the kissing and petting. (Did this also turn the other 2 on? or did the p orn video they put on turn them on?) I believe maybe that is why Deepak stopped the car. At some point they stopped and I believe Joran and maybe one of the Kalpoes (I believe it to have been Deepak) had raped her while she progessively went in and out of consciousness.

Soon, the drug/drink combo had an unexpected, deadly effect on Natalee, perhaps in combination with her shock, fear and struggle against the assault. She died. I believe the 3 panicked, probably got help, and I believe this other person is the one who hid the body and hid it well!

Like Suki, at first, I felt Deepak was a minor player, but after reading all his online statements/actions, I believe he is quite cunning and an accomplished liar in his own right. I believe all 3 are involved because they are not blaming one another. I also have Mr. Carlo, Joran's lawyer, in the back of my mind, going to Karin Janssen and saying (paraphrased) he felt his client (Joran) was involved.

You keep trying to tell us there isn't any evidence of anything. And it does seem you need evidence of a "confession" in your statement above (highlighted). Wouldn't it be nice if every case could have a video or confession - but thank god, the guilty are convicted by other means. When investigators put the pieces of the puzzle together, they can come up with a whole, pretty accurate picture of what happened. They've probably seen this type of scenario time and time again in their careers.

Oh, there is TONS of (circumstantial) evidence. True, the Kalpoes have been the most quiet, yet we have the statements by Deepak and Satish and we can logically piece what Paulus, Joran and others have said to see that all 3 of these men are in this up to their eyeballs.

jmo

Thank you for that first paragraph, that is definitely one of the problems here, in my opinion!!

[Chocoholic]

I think it is a stretch to say the foreign visitor was supplying the locals with drugs...

Satish
statement from 05/31/05:

On your question if I have used narcotic substances with the girl:
I answer you no. I also did not see the girl use narcotic substances.

Nobody said that Natalee was supplying locals with drugs, though she may have been sharing. Who knows? The Mountain Brookies ain't talking.

Satish didn't see her using drugs? So what? That doesn't mean that she didn't use drugs. Apparently beth never saw Natalee drink either, but on Aruba she was seen drinking from early morning until late at night.

[Chocoholic]

Thank you for that first paragraph, that is definitely one of the problems here, in my opinion!!

Good thing that this board is for the 18+ crowd because I would hate for any children to have the word RAPE and ALL 3 and VIRGIN thrown about without adult supervision.

So how do you explain that a judge, who does not have any personal interest in the case find - on a legal basis, that there is no evidence of a violent crime against Natalee?

Don't even try to come up with the same old mantra of corruption and coverup, try something different for a change.

[Chocoholic]

HiLife .... When you make that statement .... "Too bad, no one, IMO, believes them, except a few messageboard posters" .... where do you get that idea ?? That always seems to be tossed out there. If you are going to use "messageboard posters" as an example .... LOTS of them DO question what happened to Natalee. Lots of them DO question whether Joran et al are guilty of anything !! Even going to the CTV board, there are LOTS of questions on that board alone.

JMO

Hey FM, it's all in how far one dares to expand one's horizons. Imagine all the people that were fixated on the "fact" that the earth was flat, for centuries. It was THEIR truth.

[SukiJane]

Well, there's certainly a lot in your post which requires an answer.

1. "Rape" doesn't have too many meanings, for me at least. It means forced sexual intercourse ((against one's will)). Let's be clear .... I've never said Natalee submitted to having sex with all three. I'm not sure where you got that impression. I don't believe Natalee WAS raped, because I believe what aired on Dr. Phil was a manipulation of what Deepak said in the first place.

2. I don't understand why Skeeter "interviewed" Deepak at all !! If you SAW the "interview", surely you can tell it was not "above board". Correctly, Suki mentioned Skeeter didn't even ASK Deepak about "rape". If you say "he was using a friendlier approach", why did Beth then say "we have one of them admitting to raping Natalee on international television". The word "rape" wasn't even mentioned !!

3. In short, you feel pretty much like Suki does about what happened here, apparently.

4. I'm not the only one saying there is no apparent evidence of a violent crime. After this last fiasco, where all three were again arrested, the Judge, in his ruling, said .... "there is no evidence/indication of a violent crime".

5. I don't believe ANYONE needs a videotape of a crime being committed, or a videotape of a confession, for that matter. However solid evidence IS required. Hans Mos maintained he HAD that, when in fact, he did not, according to everyone .... even John Q. Kelly.

JMO

I realize you despise Beth's action, and I totally get you are aggravated as hell at the Deepak recording. So with all that set aside...what do you honestly think happened to natalee?

[SukiJane]

(snipped)
So how do you explain that a judge, who does not have any personal interest in the case find - on a legal basis, that there is no evidence of a violent crime against Natalee?



Simple:

No body, no case!

[Chocoholic]

Simple:

No body, no case!

And no circumstantial evidence, and no forensic evidence and no confessions to back up the lack of above.

As the judge stated, there is no evidence of a violent crime against Natalee. NONE. ZIP. ZERO. NADA.

Please advise of a case where there was absolutely no forensic evidence, no motive and were no confessions where a US state was able to successfully able to charge with the crime of kidnap, murder and gangrape.

Kindly provide a credible link.

TIA

[SukiJane]

Nobody said that Natalee was supplying locals with drugs, though she may have been sharing. Who knows? The Mountain Brookies ain't talking.

Satish didn't see her using drugs? So what? That doesn't mean that she didn't use drugs. Apparently beth never saw Natalee drink either, but on Aruba she was seen drinking from early morning until late at night.

Refer back to Ortiga's post I quoted. She/He said...Obviously, if some subset of them took drugs, it is more than likely that she supplied them. Since of the 4, she was the only one reported to have drugs.

Satish was one of the four, right?

[Chocoholic]

I realize you despise Beth's action, and I totally get you are aggravated as hell at the Deepak recording. So with all that set aside...what do you honestly think happened to natalee?

FM never said she despised beth's actions. That would be me. Please don't confuse posters.

[Chocoholic]

Refer back to Ortiga's post I quoted. She/He said...Obviously, if some subset of them took drugs, it is more than likely that she supplied them. Since of the 4, she was the only one reported to have drugs.

Satish was one of the four, right?

It's quite possible she shared them. I think that "supplying with" and sharing are two different things.

Considering that it's been reported that Natalee just got out of rehab before she went to Aruba I think it's quite possible she was not sharing. Most drug users don't, but then perhaps on her last night on Aruba she was feeling generous. Besides, only Natalee was reported to be in possession of drugs, none of the suspects or persons of interest were.

[SukiJane]

And no circumstantial evidence, and no forensic evidence and no confessions to back up the lack of above.

As the judge stated, there is no evidence of a violent crime against Natalee. NONE. ZIP. ZERO. NADA.

Please advise of a case where there was absolutely no forensic evidence, no motive and were no confessions where a US state was able to successfully able to charge with the crime of kidnap, murder and gangrape.

Kindly provide a credible link.

TIA

This isn't about the U.S.

Gotta credible link to a case in aruba that went to trial based on circumstantial evidence?

[Chocoholic]

This isn't about the U.S.

Gotta credible link to a case in aruba that went to trial based on circumstantial evidence?

Apparently it is about the US because that's what you base your knowledge on and IMO refuse to understand is the subtle differences between legal terms.

As long as you cannot accept that a person can be detained on a suspicion of an alleged crime, there is very little common ground, since you appear to believe that the only way to detain a person is to arrest him/her and then be charged with a crime.

The difference lies in the amount of evidence that is required for the detainment in the first place.

In the US, there has to be a reasonable grounds of suspicion that a person is involved in a crime. That bar isn't as high under the Aruban and Dutch legal system.

Oh heck why am I wasting keystrokes? Not like you have even been willing to understand in the last 2.5 yrs.

You figure it out.

Let's look on the bright side, the Persistence, the old tub that she is may or may not make it to Aruba where she may or may not be allowed to do her "research".

Prayers for the poor buggers that volunteered or paid to be on that tub, hoping she'll make it ashore somewhere in one piece.

[SukiJane]

[quote=Chocoholic;9083954]
Oh heck why am I wasting keystrokes?
quote]

Goodness gracious, I have no idea...I guess somewhere in all that there was something that said you don't have a link...

Wow, things are getting crazy on this board...I'm outta here!

[Chocoholic]

Goodness gracious, I have no idea...I guess somewhere in all that there was something that said you don't have a link...

Wow, things are getting crazy on this board...I'm outta here!

Somewhere in there it said "find your own". Subtle differences ain't they?

In the end you're right though, again, this time your signature line:


You get NOTHING, you LOSE, good DAY, sir. -Willy Wonka

And that's why the prosecution can't lay any charges or go forward with a trial.

[fairmaiden]

Thank you for that first paragraph, that is definitely one of the problems here, in my opinion!!

Suki .... From my trusty Webster's Pocket Dictionary, which I have right in front of me .... the definition of "RAPE" is exactly what I said it was .... namely .... "Act of having sexual intercourse with someone against their will". How many definitions ARE there for "rape" ??

What exactly IS the problem we have here ??

ETA .... There IS one more deifnition for "rape". Apparently it's a "vegetable with yellow flowers whose seeds are used to produce oil".

JMO

[fairmaiden]

I realize you despise Beth's action, and I totally get you are aggravated as hell at the Deepak recording. So with all that set aside...what do you honestly think happened to natalee?

I think the most likely scenario of what happened to Natalee, is that she died accidentally. When you have 3 people under the microscope for more than 2 years .... all three of them being questioned more than once, and the Judge who releases them indicates there is no evidence/indication of a violent crime .... it's time to look elsewhere, IMO.

Of course, there are those who believe that even the Judge is in on some kind of vast conspiracy. That idea just absolutely escapes me. It's just beyond belief .... to think we have Judges and Countries taking part in some huge conspiracy to protect the perpetrator of some crime against Natalee, is ludicrous.

JMO

[ortiga]

I think it is a stretch to say the foreign visitor was supplying the locals with drugs...

Satish
statement from 05/31/05:

On your question if I have used narcotic substances with the girl:
I answer you no. I also did not see the girl use narcotic substances.

Where did DeVries and ALE get the report that she had drugs?

[ortiga]

Suki .... From my trusty Webster's Pocket Dictionary, which I have right in front of me .... the definition of "RAPE" is exactly what I said it was .... namely .... "Act of having sexual intercourse with someone against their will". How many definitions ARE there for "rape" ??

What exactly IS the problem we have here ??

ETA .... There IS one more deifnition for "rape". Apparently it's a "vegetable with yellow flowers whose seeds are used to produce oil".

JMO

LOL .... There IS one more deifnition for "rape". Apparently it's a "vegetable with yellow flowers whose seeds are used to produce oil".

[ortiga]

Guess we'll agree to disagree. That was the outfit she was last seen wearing and it defies logic she changed. What Deepak thinks may be different than what we think. But I do think that living on a tropical island, that he would be used to this type of attire, the attire of young, pretty tourist girls and even much less.

I think Deepak was making Natalee look bad/rationalizing, giving himself some kind of reason to excuse what he did.

jmo

eta - and further thinking about it, why would what Natalee was wearing make a difference to Deepak - she was with Joran, wasn't meant to be with Deepak (or was she, did Joran intend her for all 3?? :eek: ) and didn't see Deepak until she got into the car. Why would it matter to him how she was dressed?

I never suggested that she changed outfits. We don't know what Natalee was wearing, or how she was wearing it during the makeout session in the back seat, or on the beach. Deepak had a reason for forming his opinion, that wasn't made public by him, and we can only guess how Natalee was dressed after she left the bar.

IMO

[ortiga]

I think the most likely scenario of what happened to Natalee, is that she died accidentally. When you have 3 people under the microscope for more than 2 years .... all three of them being questioned more than once, and the Judge who releases them indicates there is no evidence/indication of a violent crime .... it's time to look elsewhere, IMO.

Of course, there are those who believe that even the Judge is in on some kind of vast conspiracy. That idea just absolutely escapes me. It's just beyond belief .... to think we have Judges and Countries taking part in some huge conspiracy to protect the perpetrator of some crime against Natalee, is ludicrous.

JMO

Hi FM, not only ludicrous to think of such a huge conspiracy, but keeping it quiet by all those participants, for so long, is even more ludicrous.

[SukiJane]

I think the most likely scenario of what happened to Natalee, is that she died accidentally. When you have 3 people under the microscope for more than 2 years .... all three of them being questioned more than once, and the Judge who releases them indicates there is no evidence/indication of a violent crime .... it's time to look elsewhere, IMO.

Of course, there are those who believe that even the Judge is in on some kind of vast conspiracy. That idea just absolutely escapes me. It's just beyond belief .... to think we have Judges and Countries taking part in some huge conspiracy to protect the perpetrator of some crime against Natalee, is ludicrous.

JMO

So that's it? No theory about how and why she may have died accidentally...or where? or what happened to her body? Or why Joran waited 3 weeks to say he left Natalee on the beach? We are here to give our opinions and theories, right? Guess I was expecting something a little more creative.

jmo

[SukiJane]

Where did DeVries and ALE get the report that she had drugs?

Who knows...maybe it was Boeti. I think for a buck Boeti would probably say anything anyone wanted him to say!

[Chocoholic]

So that's it? No theory about how and why she may have died accidentally...or where? or what happened to her body? Or why Joran waited 3 weeks to say he left Natalee on the beach? We are here to give our opinions and theories, right? Guess I was expecting something a little more creative.

jmo

I think beth has been more than creative enough, doncha think?

[Chocoholic]

Who knows...maybe it was Boeti. I think for a buck Boeti would probably say anything anyone wanted him to say!

See now that is being creative! Pure speculation is what I call it but if you like the word creative, we can go with that.

[SukiJane]

I think beth has been more than creative enough, doncha think?

Always Beth...Beth Beth Beth Beth Beth...LOL Funny, and quite disturbing actually.

jmo

[Chocoholic]

Always Beth...Beth Beth Beth Beth Beth...LOL Funny, and quite disturbing actually.

jmo

She was the one that knew that Natalee was kidnapped the moment she got the call doncha know? Again pure speculation, which is why there is such contention over the "Call me Hootie" poster. What sane person would expect a kidnapped person to be at liberty to telephone? Why was there a "need to talk"?

[SukiJane]

See now that is being creative! Pure speculation is what I call it but if you like the word creative, we can go with that.

Yep, we sure can.

[Chocoholic]

Yep, we sure can.

And it's this creativeness that has kept this disappearance a crime in the minds of a few even though there is no evidence of a crime. Not a shred.

[SukiJane]

And it's this creativeness that has kept this disappearance a crime in the minds of a few even though there is no evidence of a crime. Not a shred.


That would be your opinion...My opinion, No body, no case, in Aruba!! Simple as that.

[fairmaiden]

Hi FM, not only ludicrous to think of such a huge conspiracy, but keeping it quiet by all those participants, for so long, is even more ludicrous.

Hi ortiga .... Of COURSE it's ludicrous. I wonder about it every time I see it posted .... even moreso NOW, because I see it posted that the JUDGE was somehow part of this as well. It's difficult for me to believe that anyone who is thinking rationally, can form that opinion.

JMO

[HiLife]

Satish
Statement from 05/31/05

On your question if you can me tell what the girl was wearing, I answer you the following:
She wore a blue blouse and a skirt.

Suki to the rescue research! Thanks for finding this. Now, even Satish knew what she was wearing. I find Deepak and Satish's recollections very precise for only functioning as a driver and passenger.

Joran was the one who was supposed to be with Natalee - wonder why the other two knew so many details? To me, it is because they were involved, as much as JOran, in all that took place that night with poor Natalee.

jmo

[ortiga]

Hi ortiga .... Of COURSE it's ludicrous. I wonder about it every time I see it posted .... even moreso NOW, because I see it posted that the JUDGE was somehow part of this as well. It's difficult for me to believe that anyone who is thinking rationally, can form that opinion.

JMO


keyword....."rationally"

[Chocoholic]

That would be your opinion...My opinion, No body, no case, in Aruba!! Simple as that.

If you had followed the case closely you would have read that indeed it is difficult to prosecute a case without a body but that it can be done, however there has to be enough circumstantial evidence.

There isn't any. If lies were circumstantial evidence beth tops the list of suspects.

Life insurance? According to beth there was no life insurance for Natalee, according to Dave there was. Now who would seem more credible, considering who is in the insurance business?

[SukiJane]

Now move along scooter? Isn't that a little rude, missy?

Your words weren't twisted, or changed at all. You said there's no evidence Natalee left the car. The fact that she wasn't found in the car is evidence she left it.

When you post something foolish don't blame the reader.

Then you have totally missed my point.

No evidence of Natalee anywhere after leaving CnCs with J2k, it's like she never left the car.

[ortiga]

Suki to the rescue research! Thanks for finding this. Now, even Satish knew what she was wearing. I find Deepak and Satish's recollections very precise for only functioning as a driver and passenger.

Joran was the one who was supposed to be with Natalee - wonder why the other two knew so many details? To me, it is because they were involved, as much as JOran, in all that took place that night with poor Natalee.

jmo


A Honda Civic was it? Anyway a small car. Put 4 teens or adults for that matter in a small car, and I'd say that a couple who choses to embark in a heavy makeout scene in the back seat will have their clothing awry, possibly unbuttoned, lifted up, partially or even completely off.....and the ones a few inches away in the front seat will see and hear most of what's going on. It could be that image that caused Deepak to give Skeeter his opinion of how she was dressed and how she spoke. Hard not to notice details if someone is doing that a few inches away.

We don't know how Natalee was dressed after she went with Joran. We don't know how she was dressed on the beach.

IMO

[Chocoholic]

Suki to the rescue research! Thanks for finding this. Now, even Satish knew what she was wearing. I find Deepak and Satish's recollections very precise for only functioning as a driver and passenger.

jmo

So considering how precise their recollections are as only driver and passenger, how do you explain their description of "sl*t" for Natalee?

[SukiJane]

If you had followed the case closely you would have read that indeed it is difficult to prosecute a case without a body but that it can be done, however there has to be enough circumstantial evidence.



The fact that it's never been done in Aruba, is enough for me to believe...No body, no case!

[ortiga]

It was obvious that at the time, you did not read the entire post and even now - if you are still confused. Suki clearly explained her theory and you decided to harass. It is too bad our opinions, politely expressed, garner such uncivil responses.

jmo


The poster, SukiJane, said "now move along scooter". Pretty uncivil if you ask me, actually a tossup between uncivil and snotty.

[fairmaiden]

So that's it? No theory about how and why she may have died accidentally...or where? or what happened to her body? Or why Joran waited 3 weeks to say he left Natalee on the beach? We are here to give our opinions and theories, right? Guess I was expecting something a little more creative.

jmo

Suki .... Are you looking for "creativity" or "speculation", or perhaps both ?? I see "speculation" presented as fact all the time on this board. I don't post on the board to be "creative". Yes, I give my opinions. You certainly seem to know what my opinions are.

There are any number of things that could have happened to Natalee. You alluded to it earlier .... there is no evidence of ANYTHING after she left the car. So, what do we do .... make up things which might have happened .... like kidnap, rape and murder .... or voluntary manslaughter .... or disposing of a body ?? Do we think certain people are responsible for her disappearance, because they lied ((not knowing if all the other suspects told the truth, or even answered questions at all)) ?? Do we really think Judges and countries are participating in this huge coverup, because the parties some might think are guilty are released ??

I question ((I don't believe I've ever used the word "despise")) Beth's actions, from the second she arrived on Aruba. I question them because there is REASON to, IMO. I question the funds donated, because I feel there is REASON to, IMO.

I might not have the vivid imagination you do, Suki. You asked me what I thought happened to Natalee .... I told you. To you it was somewhat of a "vanilla" response, but I'm not here to make up stories.

JMO

[terrysdoor]

I never suggested that she changed outfits. We don't know what Natalee was wearing, or how she was wearing it during the makeout session in the back seat, or on the beach. Deepak had a reason for forming his opinion, that wasn't made public by him, and we can only guess how Natalee was dressed after she left the bar.

IMO

Good morning.......... didn`t Deepak and Satish both go in CnC with Joran at first? that would explain how Deepak knew how she was dressed and acting IMO

[SukiJane]

A Honda Civic was it? Anyway a small car. Put 4 teens or adults for that matter in a small car, and I'd say that a couple who choses to embark in a heavy makeout scene in the back seat will have their clothing awry, possibly unbuttoned, lifted up, partially or even completely off.....and the ones a few inches away in the front seat will see and hear most of what's going on. It could be that image that caused Deepak to give Skeeter his opinion of how she was dressed and how she spoke. Hard not to notice details if someone is doing that a few inches away.

We don't know how Natalee was dressed after she went with Joran. We don't know how she was dressed on the beach.

IMO

LOL...I always get a funny visual of Joran at 6'4 in the backseat. Somebody's seat had to be pushed way up to the dash, for him to fit. There was a descrepancy on what side of the car Natalee was sitting. I would think Natalee would have to be sitting behind Deepak, if he was driving, and Joran sitting behind Satish for Joran to have some leg room.

Deepak's words were that she was dressed like a ****, not undressed or partially dressed like one!

jmo

[HiLife]

It really is.

:hat:

Thanks for getting it! :)

[Grandad]

It was obvious that at the time, you did not read the entire post and even now - if you are still confused. Suki clearly explained her theory and you decided to harass. It is too bad our opinions, politely expressed, garner such uncivil responses.

jmo

Something can be both polite and foolish.

[SukiJane]

Suki .... Are you looking for "creativity" or "speculation", or perhaps both ?? I see "speculation" presented as fact all the time on this board. I don't post on the board to be "creative". Yes, I give my opinions. You certainly seem to know what my opinions are.

There are any number of things that could have happened to Natalee. You alluded to it earlier .... there is no evidence of ANYTHING after she left the car. So, what do we do .... make up things which might have happened .... like kidnap, rape and murder .... or voluntary manslaughter .... or disposing of a body ?? Do we think certain people are responsible for her disappearance, because they lied ((not knowing if all the other suspects told the truth, or even answered questions at all)) ?? Do we really think Judges and countries are participating in this huge coverup, because the parties some might think are guilty are released ??

I question ((I don't believe I've ever used the word "despise")) Beth's actions, from the second she arrived on Aruba. I question them because there is REASON to, IMO. I question the funds donated, because I feel there is REASON to, IMO.

I might not have the vivid imagination you do, Suki. You asked me what I thought happened to Natalee .... I told you. To you it was somewhat of a "vanilla" response, but I'm not here to make up stories.

JMO

Dang, FM, I was just asking what you thought, personally, not what Beth thinks, not what other posters think, just your opinion. Surely your mind ventures out to several theories that have a beginning and an end.


jmo

[Chocoholic]

The fact that it's never been done in Aruba, is enough for me to believe...No body, no case!

Under Dutch law it has. Was it my imagination that beth asked for KLPD to be involved? Was it my imagination that KLPD, FBI and Interpol were involved? None of them were able to constitute this disappearance as a crime?

I don't think so.

[Grandad]

Then you have totally missed my point.

No evidence of Natalee anywhere after leaving CnCs with J2k, it's like she never left the car.

But since she wasn't found in the car, she had to have left it. She didn't turn invisible.

Like it or not, it's a foolish statement to say there's no evidence she left the car.

[HiLife]

Well, there's certainly a lot in your post which requires an answer.

1. "Rape" doesn't have too many meanings, for me at least. It means forced sexual intercourse ((against one's will)). Let's be clear .... I've never said Natalee submitted to having sex with all three. I'm not sure where you got that impression. I don't believe Natalee WAS raped, because I believe what aired on Dr. Phil was a manipulation of what Deepak said in the first place.

2. I don't understand why Skeeter "interviewed" Deepak at all !! If you SAW the "interview", surely you can tell it was not "above board". Correctly, Suki mentioned Skeeter didn't even ASK Deepak about "rape". If you say "he was using a friendlier approach", why did Beth then say "we have one of them admitting to raping Natalee on international television". The word "rape" wasn't even mentioned !!

3. In short, you feel pretty much like Suki does about what happened here, apparently.

4. I'm not the only one saying there is no apparent evidence of a violent crime. After this last fiasco, where all three were again arrested, the Judge, in his ruling, said .... "there is no evidence/indication of a violent crime".

5. I don't believe ANYONE needs a videotape of a crime being committed, or a videotape of a confession, for that matter. However solid evidence IS required. Hans Mos maintained he HAD that, when in fact, he did not, according to everyone .... even John Q. Kelly.

JMO

IMO, Of course, the little solid evidence that there probably was, by this time, because of a botched investigation and other reasons - is completely gone. We are left with a mountain of circumstantial evidence (which would be, IMO, enough to convict someone here in the U.S.)

I'm getting the "solid evidence" to you means something different for me.

I didn't say a "videotaped confession" - I said a videotape or a confession. In your post, you said, "Did Deepak appear anywhere else, and admit that they all raped Natalee??" When is LE ever lucky enough to get a "confession or admission?" They rely on all kinds of evidence to arrive at their conclusions.

For whatever reason, ALE was not up to the task and the 3 men slipped through their fingers (after ALE tried to pin it falsely on the SGs - boy, they were sure on top of the ball when it came to the SGs, weren't they?)

Now, Suki and I have provide our theories......it's your turn to share....what do you think happened (and if you go with the "died accidently" theory, please expound on what you think happened to the body. TIA.

jmo

[SukiJane]

Under Dutch law it has. Was it my imagination that beth asked for KLPD to be involved? Was it my imagination that KLPD, FBI and Interpol were involved? None of them were able to constitute this disappearance as a crime?

I don't think so.

But it's never happened in Aruba!

[SukiJane]

But since she wasn't found in the car, she had to have left it. She didn't turn invisible.

Like it or not, it's a foolish statement to say there's no evidence she left the car.


If it's such a foolish statement, then why do you continue to bring it back up!

[Grandad]

<snip>
For whatever reason, ALE was not up to the task and the 3 men slipped through their fingers (after ALE tried to pin it falsely on the SGs - boy, they were sure on top of the ball when it came to the SGs, weren't they?)

<snip>

The guards were arrested because ALE had at least one tip, possibly two. Even their lawyers have admitted this.

If ALE wanted to railroad them, how could anyone have stopped them.

You seem to think there's a conspiracy, so obviously the attorneys and judges would certainly cooperate to save Aruba's image.

Bringing the guilty to justice within two weeks would surely harm Aruba less than letting the case linger on for two and a half years without any resolution.

[HiLife]

A Honda Civic was it? Anyway a small car. Put 4 teens or adults for that matter in a small car, and I'd say that a couple who choses to embark in a heavy makeout scene in the back seat will have their clothing awry, possibly unbuttoned, lifted up, partially or even completely off.....and the ones a few inches away in the front seat will see and hear most of what's going on. It could be that image that caused Deepak to give Skeeter his opinion of how she was dressed and how she spoke. Hard not to notice details if someone is doing that a few inches away.

We don't know how Natalee was dressed after she went with Joran. We don't know how she was dressed on the beach.

IMO

Satish
Statement from 05/31/05

On your question if you can me tell what the girl was wearing, I answer you the following:
She wore a blue blouse and a skirt.

You are still saying this? Besides the fact that everyone saw Natalee in those clothese and no mention is made of extra clothes or J2K stopping for Natalee to change clothes......Satish supposedly left Natalee at the beach with his brother - sounds like he was the last one to see her at the beach with Joran.

Your insistence does not make it true about her clothes. Please provide proof of this rumor you keep posting, as I stand to be corrected. Suki has already provided the substantiation that what you assert is not true.

jmo

[HiLife]

LOL...I always get a funny visual of Joran at 6'4 in the backseat. Somebody's seat had to be pushed way up to the dash, for him to fit. There was a descrepancy on what side of the car Natalee was sitting. I would think Natalee would have to be sitting behind Deepak, if he was driving, and Joran sitting behind Satish for Joran to have some leg room.

Deepak's words were that she was dressed like a ****, not undressed or partially dressed like one!

jmo

That is a strange visual, Suki! The 6'4 Joran cramped in the back seat of that small car! You're right, usually the bigger person sits behind the passenger, not the driver, as there is usually more leg room.

Sounds to me like there was a lot "looking" done by Deepak and Satish. Coupled with the p orn video, I believe they wanted to participate, and ended up at the secluded beach, where an assault began. I don't think that it was their "initial" intention, but I believe at least 2, or maybe all 3 ended up participating, things got out of hand, and Natalee died.

Blaming the victim is despicable and these men have proved they haven't a leg to stand on, other than to blame Natalee.

jmo

[HiLife]

Suki .... Are you looking for "creativity" or "speculation", or perhaps both ?? I see "speculation" presented as fact all the time on this board. I don't post on the board to be "creative". Yes, I give my opinions. You certainly seem to know what my opinions are.

There are any number of things that could have happened to Natalee. You alluded to it earlier .... there is no evidence of ANYTHING after she left the car. So, what do we do .... make up things which might have happened .... like kidnap, rape and murder .... or voluntary manslaughter .... or disposing of a body ?? Do we think certain people are responsible for her disappearance, because they lied ((not knowing if all the other suspects told the truth, or even answered questions at all)) ?? Do we really think Judges and countries are participating in this huge coverup, because the parties some might think are guilty are released ??

I question ((I don't believe I've ever used the word "despise")) Beth's actions, from the second she arrived on Aruba. I question them because there is REASON to, IMO. I question the funds donated, because I feel there is REASON to, IMO.

I might not have the vivid imagination you do, Suki. You asked me what I thought happened to Natalee .... I told you. To you it was somewhat of a "vanilla" response, but I'm not here to make up stories.

JMO

Honestly, FM, in this post, I cannot find where you give what your original thinking is as to what happened to Natalee. After all this time, surely you must have some thought as to what happened.

You knew all our thoughts and opinions, yet asked for what we thought happened - we provided that. I'd like to hear yours. TIA.

jmo

[HiLife]

So that's it? No theory about how and why she may have died accidentally...or where? or what happened to her body? Or why Joran waited 3 weeks to say he left Natalee on the beach? We are here to give our opinions and theories, right? Guess I was expecting something a little more creative.

jmo

I'm expecting this, too, Suki. I don't want to hear what Beth said, what the prosecutor said, about conspiracies that haven't even been mentioned here by either one of us, or a nebulous "so many possibilities..." statement.

Afte 2.5 years, there must be some kind of theory.

jmo

[HiLife]

Who knows...maybe it was Boeti. I think for a buck Boeti would probably say anything anyone wanted him to say!

And let's remember that DeVries proclaimed he thought Joran guilty. Boeti is a joke and so is Dompig.

I believe the only things we can rely on are the many, conflicting statements by all the players involved in this case. All the "outside people" have no credibility and their "opinions" do not matter or count.

jmo

[SukiJane]

That is a strange visual, Suki! The 6'4 Joran cramped in the back seat of that small car! You're right, usually the bigger person sits behind the passenger, not the driver, as there is usually more leg room.

Sounds to me like there was a lot "looking" done by Deepak and Satish. Coupled with the p orn video, I believe they wanted to participate, and ended up at the secluded beach, where an assault began. I don't think that it was their "initial" intention, but I believe at least 2, or maybe all 3 ended up participating, things got out of hand, and Natalee died.

Blaming the victim is despicable and these men have proved they haven't a leg to stand on, other than to blame Natalee.

jmo

I don't really know what to think about Satish and Deepak's involvement. I go back and forth with them. Some days I think they really don't know what happened to Natalee, but I do believe they may have known Natalee was in some sort of distress when she was in the car. I will say one thing we may not completely agree on their involvement, but there is no way in hell that I would defend them. All three are low lifes in my book by not telling a family or police the last place they saw Natalee alive.

jmo

[SukiJane]

And let's remember that DeVries proclaimed he thought Joran guilty. Boeti is a joke and so is Dompig.

I believe the only things we can rely on are the many, conflicting statements by all the players involved in this case. All the "outside people" have no credibility and their "opinions" do not matter or count.

jmo

True, and I will fall back on what Spencer Bachus said after his meeting with the Arubans. paraphrased...whatever happened to Natalee was of a criminal nature.

I'm outta here HiLife...walk my dogs, enjoy my day off, and do some shopping. Hope to see ya later...

[HiLife]

I don't really know what to think about Satish and Deepak's involvement. I go back and forth with them. Some days I think they really don't know what happened to Natalee, but I do believe they may have known Natalee was in some sort of distress when she was in the car. I will say one thing we may not completely agree on their involvement, but there is no way in hell that I would defend them. All three are low lifes in my book by not telling a family or police the last place they saw Natalee alive.

jmo

Well said, Suki, I feel this way about the Kalpoes, too. I keep going back and forth. Only because they are not ganging up and blaming Joran. They would have had more clout, yet chose not to do this - why?

But definitely.....to defend them is defending the indefensible. Just based on their initial lies (I think we have had the requisite mountain of hard evidence so many look for, at least regarding their cruel lies), they do not deserve even the benefit of the doubt!

Enjoy your day, Suki, I'm following you out as well - putting on my suit of armor to fight the Christmas crowds! :seeya:

jmo

[Luke Davis]

Nobody said that Natalee was supplying locals with drugs, though she may have been sharing. Who knows? The Mountain Brookies ain't talking.

Satish didn't see her using drugs? So what? That doesn't mean that she didn't use drugs. Apparently beth never saw Natalee drink either, but on Aruba she was seen drinking from early morning until late at night.

If I was going to do drugs, I would go to the restroom.

[terrysdoor]

If I was going to do drugs, I would go to the restroom.

Luke IIRC there a video of Natalee leaving the table several times do u remember this its been so long so this is simply my opinion

[fairmaiden]

Well said, Suki, I feel this way about the Kalpoes, too. I keep going back and forth. Only because they are not ganging up and blaming Joran. They would have had more clout, yet chose not to do this - why?

But definitely.....to defend them is defending the indefensible. Just based on their initial lies (I think we have had the requisite mountain of hard evidence so many look for, at least regarding their cruel lies), they do not deserve even the benefit of the doubt!

Enjoy your day, Suki, I'm following you out as well - putting on my suit of armor to fight the Christmas crowds! :seeya:

jmo

Well now .... this is interesting. Both Suki and you keep "going back and forth about the Kalpoes". Do EITHER of you question what was aired on Dr. Phil ?? This has been touted as a "confession" by Deepak that they all RAPED Natalee. Yet you both go back and forth about the Kalpoes. That's just ONE of the myriad of things that's questionable, IMO.

You want some scenario from me as to what happened to Natalee. I can be perfectly honest in saying .... I don't know what happened to Natalee. You want me to theorize/speculate/create a scenario that I think might have happened. I think it's quite possible NONE of them ((Joran et al)) knows what happened to Natalee. I think that's a distinct possibility.

I think it's absolutely foolish to speculate that there is some kind of coverup/corruption involving countries, and now the Judge .... yet it happens here all the time.

She could have drowned .... she could have been harmed by someone else .... she could have left voluntarily .... this could be one HUGE scam. I know I have had questions since the outset .... none of which have been answered.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Luke IIRC there a video of Natalee leaving the table several times do u remember this its been so long so this is simply my opinionYes, Dave said she left five times.

[ortiga]

You are still saying this? Besides the fact that everyone saw Natalee in those clothese and no mention is made of extra clothes or J2K stopping for Natalee to change clothes......Satish supposedly left Natalee at the beach with his brother - sounds like he was the last one to see her at the beach with Joran.

Your insistence does not make it true about her clothes. Please provide proof of this rumor you keep posting, as I stand to be corrected. Suki has already provided the substantiation that what you assert is not true.

jmo

I have posted no rumors. I am attempting to explain why Deepak possibly used the word he used to describe Natalee's dress and words. It is not a rumor. Of course the main question is why BHT wanted the world to know that Deepak thought that of her daughter. I have my theories on that.


"Originally Posted by ortiga
A Honda Civic was it? Anyway a small car. Put 4 teens or adults for that matter in a small car, and I'd say that a couple who choses to embark in a heavy makeout scene in the back seat will have their clothing awry, possibly unbuttoned, lifted up, partially or even completely off.....and the ones a few inches away in the front seat will see and hear most of what's going on. It could be that image that caused Deepak to give Skeeter his opinion of how she was dressed and how she spoke. Hard not to notice details if someone is doing that a few inches away.

We don't know how Natalee was dressed after she went with Joran. We don't know how she was dressed on the beach."

[ortiga]

That is a strange visual, Suki! The 6'4 Joran cramped in the back seat of that small car! You're right, usually the bigger person sits behind the passenger, not the driver, as there is usually more leg room.

Sounds to me like there was a lot "looking" done by Deepak and Satish. Coupled with the p orn video, I believe they wanted to participate, and ended up at the secluded beach, where an assault began. I don't think that it was their "initial" intention, but I believe at least 2, or maybe all 3 ended up participating, things got out of hand, and Natalee died.

Blaming the victim is despicable and these men have proved they haven't a leg to stand on, other than to blame Natalee.

jmo


I don't think the PVs said "porn".

But you can show me where they did say that word.

[terrysdoor]

Yes, Dave said she left five times.

did her friends ever say where she went or what she was doing IMO that might be important

[ortiga]

That is a strange visual, Suki! The 6'4 Joran cramped in the back seat of that small car! You're right, usually the bigger person sits behind the passenger, not the driver, as there is usually more leg room.

Sounds to me like there was a lot "looking" done by Deepak and Satish. Coupled with the p orn video, I believe they wanted to participate, and ended up at the secluded beach, where an assault began. I don't think that it was their "initial" intention, but I believe at least 2, or maybe all 3 ended up participating, things got out of hand, and Natalee died.

Blaming the victim is despicable and these men have proved they haven't a leg to stand on, other than to blame Natalee.

jmo

Please link to any of the 3 boys saying "porn video" or "porn" anything. I believe the words used were "DVD that had nude scenes in it"

But I am open to being corrected should you find any reference to "porn" in the boys statements. Are you sure that didn't come from Twitty?

[ortiga]

did her friends ever say where she went or what she was doing IMO that might be important

Terry I have never heard any explanation of why she left so often, who she was talking to on the cell phone, or why she appeared to be interested in the watch of the girl seated next to her. Also whose phone it was, and was it an international call. Nothing has been explained, IMO

[Grandad]

Terry I have never heard any explanation of why she left so often, who she was talking to on the cell phone, or why she appeared to be interested in the watch of the girl seated next to her. Also whose phone it was, and was it an international call. Nothing has been explained, IMO


Since speculation is allowed, I'll state my beliefs about that night in the casino.

First, I think Natalee was talking on a phone that was rented from Charles Croes. Either Natalee rented it, or someone rented it for her.

The story both Croes and Beth tell about their meeting in the gas station makes no sense whatever.

I believe Beth met Croes to get a list of the numbers called from that rental phone, and the numbers which had called that phone.

I also believe Beth wanted any voice messages left on that phone deleted, especially those left by her.

Since all this is actually recorded on the phone company's equipment, and not on the phone itself, this is something Croes could do even if Natalee still had the phone.

I have always believed Natalee ran off, and I think she kept leaving the casino to meet someone who was going to help her. That person, or someone else involved in helping her may be whom she was talking to.

[Luke Davis]

did her friends ever say where she went or what she was doing IMO that might be importantI'm not sure but I vaguely remember Dave saying she went to the bathroom but I don't know how he would know that. Natalee does have a drink in her hand but I imagine that was delivered.

:shrug:

[fairmaiden]

True, and I will fall back on what Spencer Bachus said after his meeting with the Arubans. paraphrased...whatever happened to Natalee was of a criminal nature.

I'm outta here HiLife...walk my dogs, enjoy my day off, and do some shopping. Hope to see ya later...

So, you can fall back on what Spencer Bachus said, who is no more than peripherally familiar with this case .... but when a Judge who is absolutely familiar with this case, says there is no evidence/indication of a violent crime, that's not acceptable to you ?? :shrug:

JMO

[HiLife]

Please link to any of the 3 boys saying "porn video" or "porn" anything. I believe the words used were "DVD that had nude scenes in it"

But I am open to being corrected should you find any reference to "porn" in the boys statements. Are you sure that didn't come from Twitty?

Without searching the exact statements, the above highlighted quote, to me, in my opinion, constitutes porn. Nude scenes on a video to me is porn. You can even look up the meaning, as I won't post it here.

That is my opinion.

jmo

[Chocoholic]

Without searching the exact statements, the above highlighted quote, to me, in my opinion, constitutes porn. Nude scenes on a video to me is porn. You can even look up the meaning, as I won't post it here.

That is my opinion.

jmo

How do you feel about nude scenes on tv? Porn also?

[Chocoholic]

Please link to any of the 3 boys saying "porn video" or "porn" anything. I believe the words used were "DVD that had nude scenes in it"

But I am open to being corrected should you find any reference to "porn" in the boys statements. Are you sure that didn't come from Twitty?

Apparently when somebody interprets something as porn it IS porn, even though it is mere nudity. Darn soap and deodorant commercials. :D

[Grandad]

Apparently when somebody interprets something as porn it IS porn, even though it is mere nudity. Darn soap and deodorant commercials. :D

Well, there's this: Speaking of pornography generally, the late Supreme Court Justice Potter Steward wisely said "I may not be able to define it, but I know it when I see it."

http://www.news.com/5208-1030_3-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=23183&messageID=206919&start=-1

Perhaps porn, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

After all, there are quite a few posts on this board I consider obscene, but the moderator doesn't seem to agree with me.

[HiLife]

Well, there's this: Speaking of pornography generally, the late Supreme Court Justice Potter Steward wisely said "I may not be able to define it, but I know it when I see it."

<snipped>



Good quote from Supreme Court Justice Steward - I guess it's true that great minds think alike.

jmo

[Luke Davis]

Good quote from Supreme Court Justice Steward - I guess it's true that great minds think alike.

jmoI always love when the police arrest a pervert and they release to the press that they found pornography in the home. So ALE releases that Joran was surfing porn sites on the internet. I guess it's the same all over the world.

[SukiJane]

Without searching the exact statements, the above highlighted quote, to me, in my opinion, constitutes porn. Nude scenes on a video to me is porn. You can even look up the meaning, as I won't post it here.

That is my opinion.

jmo

Doesn't seem to be too much of a leap to think it was porn, since supposedly Natalee responded....Oh my God, what is that?

From Deepak's statement June 11, 2005:

Satish popped in a DVD that had nude scenes in it. The girl said in English "Oh my God, whats that" (loosely translated by reporting officer: Oh my God, What is that). I then said to Joran in English: "Now she is going to think that we're perverts (loosely translated by reporting officer: Now the girls is going to think we are perverts). After a while Joran said to Satish in Dutch. "Switch off the DVD, she has had enough of it. Satish had done what he requested/asked.

Ugh, this just makes me sick...what a bunch of jerks J2K seem to be!!! "Switch off the video, she has had enough of it"? What the heck is that supposed to mean?

[Chocoholic]

Doesn't seem to be too much of a leap to think it was porn, since supposedly Natalee responded....Oh my God, what is that?

From Deepak's statement June 11, 2005:

Satish popped in a DVD that had nude scenes in it. The girl said in English "Oh my God, whats that" (loosely translated by reporting officer: Oh my God, What is that). I then said to Joran in English: "Now she is going to think that we're perverts (loosely translated by reporting officer: Now the girls is going to think we are perverts). After a while Joran said to Satish in Dutch. "Switch off the DVD, she has had enough of it. Satish had done what he requested/asked.

Ugh, this just makes me sick...what a bunch of jerks J2K seem to be!!! "Switch off the video, she has had enough of it"? What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Her blue Mountain Brook eyes had never laid eyes on a Dutch soap commercial before?

[SukiJane]

Her blue Mountain Brook eyes had never laid eyes on a Dutch soap commercial before?

LOL...yeah, okay...you think Deepak has a DVD player in his car to watch Dutch soap commercials?....LOL

[Chocoholic]

LOL...yeah, okay...you think Deepak has a DVD player in his car to watch Dutch soap commercials?....LOL

I'm beginning to detect that you believe everything the Kalpoes stated.

[SukiJane]

I'm beginning to detect that you believe everything the Kalpoes stated.


LOL...so now you don't think they watched a nude video at all? One minute you're making excuses for them, and the next minute you're implying Deepak lied and it never happened?....LOL

[Chocoholic]

LOL...so now you don't think they watched a nude video at all? One minute you're making excuses for them, and the next minute you're implying Deepak lied and it never happened?....LOL

Do you believe everything that the Kalpoes stated or just the parts that you like? Are you privy to the information that the judge has also?

[SukiJane]

Fun reading material from Deepak's statement of June 10, 2005:

To your question as to when I last was in Joran's place the last time, I can state the following. I went to his place Wednesday June 8th at approximately 22.45 hours together with my brother Satish.

To your question as to what the purpose of this visit was, I can state the following. First of all because we had no power/electricity at our house and secondly because Joran wanted to see the video of my brother's school trip.

To your question as to who all were at the house, I can state the following. His parents were at the house and his little brother.

To your question as to how late we stayed there, I can state the following. We stayed there until about 02.00 hours in the morning.

To your question whether we had talked to Joran's father that night, I can state the following. We had spoken to him, because he sat down with us.

To your question about what we had talked to him, I can state the following. He had said that there were people from the press outside the door.

To your question as to what more he had said, I can state the following. I do not remember.

(comment reporting officer: at this moment, I, BURKE, asked the suspect D.S. KALPOE as to how it is possible that yesterday he could make statements about stuff that took place a week ago and that he now is unable to remember a conversation from the day before yesterday. The suspect D.S. KALPOE stated that he cannot remember anything, that they had only talked about the people from the media and about the video they were watching).

[SukiJane]

from Deepak's statement June 10, 2005:

To your question whether I think that if there is no body there is also no case, I can state the following.

Sadly, we don't get to see Deepak's response to this question. Interesting question though.

[HiLife]

Fun reading material from Deepak's statement of June 10, 2005:

To your question as to when I last was in Joran's place the last time, I can state the following. I went to his place Wednesday June 8th at approximately 22.45 hours together with my brother Satish.

To your question as to what the purpose of this visit was, I can state the following. First of all because we had no power/electricity at our house and secondly because Joran wanted to see the video of my brother's school trip.

To your question as to who all were at the house, I can state the following. His parents were at the house and his little brother.

To your question as to how late we stayed there, I can state the following. We stayed there until about 02.00 hours in the morning.

To your question whether we had talked to Joran's father that night, I can state the following. We had spoken to him, because he sat down with us.

To your question about what we had talked to him, I can state the following. He had said that there were people from the press outside the door.

To your question as to what more he had said, I can state the following. I do not remember.

(comment reporting officer: at this moment, I, BURKE, asked the suspect D.S. KALPOE as to how it is possible that yesterday he could make statements about stuff that took place a week ago and that he now is unable to remember a conversation from the day before yesterday. The suspect D.S. KALPOE stated that he cannot remember anything, that they had only talked about the people from the media and about the video they were watching).

Must be the Aruban wind blowing the memory right out of their brains - Paulus, in his statement, stated he "couldn't remember" and variations of that about 25 times throughout his statement!

jmo

[HiLife]

Doesn't seem to be too much of a leap to think it was porn, since supposedly Natalee responded....Oh my God, what is that?

From Deepak's statement June 11, 2005:

Satish popped in a DVD that had nude scenes in it. The girl said in English "Oh my God, whats that" (loosely translated by reporting officer: Oh my God, What is that). I then said to Joran in English: "Now she is going to think that we're perverts (loosely translated by reporting officer: Now the girls is going to think we are perverts). After a while Joran said to Satish in Dutch. "Switch off the DVD, she has had enough of it. Satish had done what he requested/asked.

Ugh, this just makes me sick...what a bunch of jerks J2K seem to be!!! "Switch off the video, she has had enough of it"? What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Thanks for riding to the rescue once again, SukiRanger!! I actually nodded off while looking for the statements! You're a doll!

Not only does it mention "nude scenes," it is clear what the context is - p orn. How dare Deepak presume to show this stuff to someone he's never even met before. More "evidence" as to their characters - and it ain't pretty!

jmo

[Chocoholic]

Oh let me guess, those are beth's signed statements right?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Priceless.

So I guess you don't have any of the documents that the judge has access to. That's a relief.

[SukiJane]

Must be the Aruban wind blowing the memory right out of their brains - Paulus, in his statement, stated he "couldn't remember" and variations of that about 25 times throughout his statement!

jmo

No kiddin'!!!

Did you notice: your question about what we had talked to him, I can state the following. He had said that there were people from the press outside the door.

OMG, I had to laugh out loud at this...Paulus calls a meeting to tell them the press was outside the door...LOL

It reminded me of the movie The Sixth Sense, where the little boy is in bed with the sheet pulled up partially covering his face and says...I see dead people...

[Chocoholic]

I see dead people...

That's because you're so uhm creative.

[HiLife]

That's because you're so uhm creative.
Sure sign of a brilliant mind!

jmo

[HiLife]

No kiddin'!!!

Did you notice: your question about what we had talked to him, I can state the following. He had said that there were people from the press outside the door.

OMG, I had to laugh out loud at this...Paulus calls a meeting to tell them the press was outside the door...LOL

It reminded me of the movie The Sixth Sense, where the little boy is in bed with the sheet pulled up partially covering his face and says...I see dead people...

You don't even know where to begin with all their statements. I find Deepak extremely cunning. So that's all Paulus had to say to them? Ridiculous. Appears ALE were content with this answer? Figures.

LOL about the movie!!! :biggrin: Your visuals are hilarious!

jmo

[SukiJane]

You don't even know where to begin with all their statements. I find Deepak extremely cunning. So that's all Paulus had to say to them? Ridiculous. Appears ALE were content with this answer? Figures.

LOL about the movie!!! :biggrin: Your visuals are hilarious!

jmo

Oh I agree, very cunning...

did you notice this one:

To your question as to what the purpose of this visit was, I can state the following. First of all because we had no power/electricity at our house and secondly because Joran wanted to see the video of my brother's school trip.

Now can we really believe with all that was going on at the time, that Joran wanted to see the video of his brother's school trip...LOL Or maybe it was some other type of video:eek:

[Chocoholic]

Sure sign of a brilliant mind!

jmo

Is that a good thing? Ted Bundy was a genius also. :shrug:

Indeed the creative thought about the supposed kidnapping, gangrape and murder is more than this bunch of bungling teens could have pulled off, but I see that the brilliant posters on this board can easily fill in the gaps.

[HiLife]

I always love when the police arrest a pervert and they release to the press that they found pornography in the home. So ALE releases that Joran was surfing porn sites on the internet. I guess it's the same all over the world.
Good observation, I've been chewing on this one for a while.

This may be one of those "where there is smoke, there's fire" type of things. Maybe the p orn is something all these sociopaths have in common? :shrug:

jmo

[HiLife]

Oh I agree, very cunning...

did you notice this one:

To your question as to what the purpose of this visit was, I can state the following. First of all because we had no power/electricity at our house and secondly because Joran wanted to see the video of my brother's school trip.

Now can we really believe with all that was going on at the time, that Joran wanted to see the video of his brother's school trip...LOL Or maybe it was some other type of video:eek:

LOLOL! You read my mind - I thought that, too!! "Another type" of video! jmo

[HiLife]

Is that a good thing? Ted Bundy was a genius also. :shrug:

Indeed the creative thought about the supposed kidnapping, gangrape and murder is more than this bunch of bungling teens could have pulled off, but I see that the brilliant posters on this board can easily fill in the gaps.

Nice save, adding the rest to not appear to be insulting. But it still sounds that way. Comparing Suki to Ted Bundy is wayyyy out of line.

(Suki has channeled her brilliance for good, not evil! :biggrin: )

jmo

[Chocoholic]

Nice save, adding the rest to not appear to be insulting. But it still sounds that way. Comparing Suki to Ted Bundy is wayyyy out of line.

(Suki has channeled her brilliance for good, not evil! :biggrin: )

jmo

Comparing suki to bundy is your creative interpretation.

What a shame sukis's brilliance still needs to be seen on this board.

Comparing J2K to a couple of mastermind criminals is way out of line also but it's been done for 2.5 yrs on this board. The creative masterminds on this board have the perfect crime to hang a few innocent people, but there is no evidence of a crime.

So, since apparently neither you nor suki nor beth appear to have any access to the judge's rather large file, and the information you do have may well be and likely is doctored, what do you base your facts on?

Unsigned confessions, a skeeterized tape and pure speculation, DNA encrusted toothbrush, a near pornographic book written by the mother of the "victim" (publisher stated for 18+), Natalee's mother who hangs out with known criminals and who's ex-husband is reportedly an arms dealer.

Trust funds, lovebowls, no public accounting for the very public donations and a rather remarkable physical transformation.

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. I'm almost speechless.

[ortiga]

Doesn't seem to be too much of a leap to think it was porn, since supposedly Natalee responded....Oh my God, what is that?

From Deepak's statement June 11, 2005:

Satish popped in a DVD that had nude scenes in it. The girl said in English "Oh my God, whats that" (loosely translated by reporting officer: Oh my God, What is that). I then said to Joran in English: "Now she is going to think that we're perverts (loosely translated by reporting officer: Now the girls is going to think we are perverts). After a while Joran said to Satish in Dutch. "Switch off the DVD, she has had enough of it. Satish had done what he requested/asked.

Ugh, this just makes me sick...what a bunch of jerks J2K seem to be!!! "Switch off the video, she has had enough of it"? What the heck is that supposed to mean?

So, Natalee wasn't really "out of consciousness"? There was no definition in the PVs of the video being porn.

[ortiga]

LOL...so now you don't think they watched a nude video at all? One minute you're making excuses for them, and the next minute you're implying Deepak lied and it never happened?....LOL

Now they were watching a "nude video"? Or was it, as stated in the PV, a DVD with nude scenes?

Diane Keaton took it all off in that recent movie with Jack Nicholson. ETC ETC ETC

[Xainia]

Is that a good thing? Ted Bundy was a genius also. :shrug:

Indeed the creative thought about the supposed kidnapping, gangrape and murder is more than this bunch of bungling teens could have pulled off, but I see that the brilliant posters on this board can easily fill in the gaps.

A point of interest.
Theodore Kaczynski (Una Bomber) was also a genius. He has an IQ in the 160 to 170 range.

[Chocoholic]

Now they were watching a "nude video"? Or was it, as stated in the PV, a DVD with nude scenes?

Diane Keaton took it all off in that recent movie with Jack Nicholson. ETC ETC ETC


You better not have watched that movie, you, you sinner you! :biggrin:

[Grandad]

Seems like some posters actually believe ALE gave suspects' statements to Scared Monkeys.

[Chocoholic]

Seems like some posters actually believe ALE gave suspects' statements to Scared Monkeys.

LOL some believe that the "signed statements" that beth has are the real thing.

[Luke Davis]

Good observation, I've been chewing on this one for a while.

This may be one of those "where there is smoke, there's fire" type of things. Maybe the p orn is something all these sociopaths have in common? :shrug:

jmoAnd leaks are something LE has in common.

[Luke Davis]

LOL some believe that the "signed statements" that beth has are the real thing.
If they are the real thing, I don't know why she is saving them.
:hat:

[Chocoholic]

If they are the real thing, I don't know why she is saving them.
:hat:

Because they are proof ............ of something. I think what it was supposed to prove has been forgotten.

Certainly it didn't prove that any of the suspects could be charged with a crime, it didn't provide any forensic evidence and EVEN if they were the real deal, it's not enough circumstantial evidence to prove a crime was committed.

However let's not forget that to beth it was HUGE, just like the skeeterized tape and the DNA encrusted toothbrush.

I do know this, anybody who attempts to shed light on this case and proves beth to be the liar she is, will be blackb@lled and ridiculed and made out to be the "enemy" of the family.

[Chocoholic]

If they are the real thing, I don't know why she is saving them.
:hat:

I've given it some more thought. I think she might frame them tastefully done, lined with red slippers and auction them off, like she did the "Call me Hootie" poster. She might even autograph them for another $100.

[Grandad]

LOL some believe that the "signed statements" that beth has are the real thing.

You mean the signed statements Beth claims she has? The signed statements she didn't even produce for her bogus lawsuits?

[Chocoholic]

You mean the signed statements Beth claims she has? The signed statements she didn't even produce for her bogus lawsuits?

Yeah those! :D

[Luke Davis]

Holloway case has damaged Aruba's reputation
Oranjestad (15 december) - The Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes says the recent arrests in the Holloway case have damaged the country's reputation. He says the case has discredited Aruba internationally. He sharply criticised the prosecution for the early release of the suspects.

Mr Croes also complains he was informed too late about the arrests of the Dutch student Joran van der Sloot and the Surinamese Kalpoe brothers. In response, the Public Prosecutor Hans Mos says the Public Prosecutor's Office is in charge of the case and the minister should not interfere.

The Public Prosecutor's Office will announce at the end of the month whether or not it will drop the case against the three suspects. Nineteen-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba in May 2005.

RNW (http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/5560857/Holloway-case-has-damaged-Arubas-reputation)

[Chocoholic]

Holloway case has damaged Aruba's reputation
Oranjestad (15 december) - The Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes says the recent arrests in the Holloway case have damaged the country's reputation. He says the case has discredited Aruba internationally. He sharply criticised the prosecution for the early release of the suspects.

Mr Croes also complains he was informed too late about the arrests of the Dutch student Joran van der Sloot and the Surinamese Kalpoe brothers. In response, the Public Prosecutor Hans Mos says the Public Prosecutor's Office is in charge of the case and the minister should not interfere.

The Public Prosecutor's Office will announce at the end of the month whether or not it will drop the case against the three suspects. Nineteen-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba in May 2005.

RNW (http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/5560857/Holloway-case-has-damaged-Arubas-reputation)

Perhaps Croes would like to step down as minister? He is responsible for but not in charge of the OM, ie OM is an independent entity from the government.

[HiLife]

Holloway case has damaged Aruba's reputation
Oranjestad (15 december) - The Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes says the recent arrests in the Holloway case have damaged the country's reputation. He says the case has discredited Aruba internationally. He sharply criticised the prosecution for the early release of the suspects.

Mr Croes also complains he was informed too late about the arrests of the Dutch student Joran van der Sloot and the Surinamese Kalpoe brothers. In response, the Public Prosecutor Hans Mos says the Public Prosecutor's Office is in charge of the case and the minister should not interfere.

The Public Prosecutor's Office will announce at the end of the month whether or not it will drop the case against the three suspects. Nineteen-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba in May 2005.

RNW (http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/5560857/Holloway-case-has-damaged-Arubas-reputation)

"It's the show that never ends, it goes on and on my friends....."

So where has Justice Minster Rudy (Rip Van Winkle) Croes been for the past month? Did he just wake up? Where was Mr. Croes when this whole fiasco was taking place? Is he actually trying to pretend he didn't know what was happening from the beginning?

First Hans Mos and now Rudy Croes. Do they think the rest of the world is as stupid as they are? He "complains he was informed too late." What is "too late" is his reaction. Did he only now realize the damage Hans Mos' lies have done to Aruba?

Can this much blatant stupidity be possible? (Rhetorical, because I already know the answer)

JMO

[Chocoholic]

Can this much blatant stupidity be possible? (Rhetorical, because I already know the answer)

JMO

Yup such blatant stupidity is possible in the US also, but then you already knew that.

An Attorney General isn't kept up to date with all current cases in the US I presume?

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/14/mukasey.cia.tapes/

Stupidity knows no bounds and nothing is foolproof.

[HiLife]

LOLOLOL!

Comparing the U.S. to Aruba again? The U.S. is not a mere 19.6 miles long and 6 miles wide, as is Aruba - and about 75, 000 inhabitants. If Croes can't keep track, he is even more pathetic than I thought. Especially when it involves the biggest case to ever hit their tiny Island and one watched by the world.

jmo

[Chocoholic]

LOLOLOL!

Comparing the U.S. to Aruba again? The U.S. is not a mere 19.6 miles long and 6 miles wide, as is Aruba - and about 75, 000 inhabitants. If Croes can't keep track, he is even more pathetic than I thought. Especially when it involves the biggest case to ever hit their tiny Island and one watched by the world.

jmo

You compare Aruba to the US all the time, especially where it's legal system is concerned. You expect an explanation for a Dutch word that doesn't exist in English and mold it to your liking. I STILL see people wanting a jury to convict J2K on Aruba even though there is no system that allows for a jury! Monkeybunk.

It's not Croes' responsibility to "keep track" of cases any more than it is your AG's responsibility to keep track of cases. They're in charge of their departments, and they have dam little influence. They might be kept up to date, if they're lucky. In some cases they're not so lucky.

I bolded part of your post to highlight xenophobia. Only a few posters in the US who cannot accept what has been ruled are still on the hunt for 3 gangraping, kidnapping murderers. Not even beth goes there anymore.

[HiLife]

You compare Aruba to the US all the time, especially where it's legal system is concerned. You expect an explanation for a Dutch word that doesn't exist in English and mold it to your liking. I STILL see people wanting a jury to convict J2K on Aruba even though there is no system that allows for a jury! Monkeybunk.

It's not Croes' responsibility to "keep track" of cases any more than it is your AG's responsibility to keep track of cases. They're in charge of their departments, and they have dam little influence. They might be kept up to date, if they're lucky. In some cases they're not so lucky.

I bolded part of your post to highlight xenophobia. Only a few posters in the US who cannot accept what has been ruled are still on the hunt for 3 gangraping, kidnapping murderers. Not even beth goes there anymore.

Chill. It appears you do not understand the meaning of "xenophobia" so please refrain from using it to attack me personally. TIA.

You are the one comparing (once again) the U.S. with Aruba. Show me one post of mine that I've ever compared, so stop the false accusations. There is no comparison so stop trying to use me as an excuse. I have no confusion regarding "words" so stop the insults.

Croes sounds like he's feeling mighty embarassed. He should be. His telling the world he didn't know is mighty disingenuous. Like Judge Judy says, "Don't P on my leg and tell me it's raining."

jmo

eta - there is a reason no one is posting here anymore, so I, too, will wait until someone who is polite shows up. Nite.:seeya:

[Chocoholic]

Chill. It appears you do not understand the meaning of "xenophobia" so please refrain from using it to attack me personally. TIA.

eta - there is a reason no one is posting here anymore, so I, too, will wait until someone who is polite shows up. Nite.:seeya:

I am fully aware of the meaning of xenophobia and it's reared it's ugly head numerous times under accusations of supposed corruption and cover-ups.

Yes people are posting elsewhere, fed up with you and the likes of you.

Have the board, take it all. You and your "polite" friends can discuss this case. :D You have 2 weeks to solve it, then this board shuts down and the case will be closed. Congratulations, you and beth win. Case solved.

[terrysdoor]

I am fully aware of the meaning of xenophobia and it's reared it's ugly head numerous times under accusations of supposed corruption and cover-ups.

Yes people are posting elsewhere, fed up with you and the likes of you.

Have the board, take it all. You and your "polite" friends can discuss this case. :D You have 2 weeks to solve it, then this board shuts down and the case will be closed. Congratulations, you and beth win. Case solved.

there are lots of we have lots of people viewing but no posters

at the end of the year when the case is closed will that make Natalee legally dead and i wonder if Beth and Dave will want to have a memorial IMO

[Luke Davis]

I am not trained to know how to assist in a missing persons search, but our company, Sell My Timeshare NOW, has found a small way to help by donating comfortable accommodations for the skilled members of EquuSearch who are in Aruba looking for Natalee Holloway now.

Aruban authorities are saying they may close the missing persons case at the end of December if there is no further evidence found to link suspects in the case to Natalee's disappearance or if no new evidence is uncovered. The Holloway family attorney, John Q. Kelly, has stated that he believes there is strong circumstantial evidence to link the three suspects in the case, but without something new, this case could be closed by the end of the year.

Jason Tremblay, whose company helps timeshare owners market and advertise their property as a timeshare rental or timeshare resale, says, "The search crew was planning to sleep on the search boat each night, but it only made sense that a hot shower and a comfortable bed at the timeshare makes it easier for them to maintain their stamina and focus."

emedia (http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2007SellMyTimeshareNOW/12NataleeHolloway/prweb579942.htm)

[No Nic]

I am not trained to know how to assist in a missing persons search, but our company, Sell My Timeshare NOW, has found a small way to help by donating comfortable accommodations for the skilled members of EquuSearch who are in Aruba looking for Natalee Holloway now.



emedia (http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2007SellMyTimeshareNOW/12NataleeHolloway/prweb579942.htm)

Thanks for the link, Luke.

I thank the good Lord that there are caring, compassionate people out there and the trash we see on this and that other message board is not the norm, as some have insisted.

[Chocoholic]

there are lots of we have lots of people viewing but no posters

at the end of the year when the case is closed will that make Natalee legally dead and i wonder if Beth and Dave will want to have a memorial IMO

I don't know if the case will be closed, since there is no resolution. She's not officially dead, she is officially missing. What will happen at the end of the year is that either the prosecution will lay charges and go to court, which would really be best since it would prove that there isn't enough evidence, or the prosecution will not waste the court's time and money and they'll all go home, nobody any the wiser.

I think they'll decide to no longer investigate the case and not keep anybody officially under suspicion.

[ortiga]

snipped

I think they'll decide to no longer investigate the case and not keep anybody officially under suspicion.

Me too. I'm finding it apropos that the board is ending at the same time as (I hope) the case.

[fairmaiden]

Chill. It appears you do not understand the meaning of "xenophobia" so please refrain from using it to attack me personally. TIA.

You are the one comparing (once again) the U.S. with Aruba. Show me one post of mine that I've ever compared, so stop the false accusations. There is no comparison so stop trying to use me as an excuse. I have no confusion regarding "words" so stop the insults.

Croes sounds like he's feeling mighty embarassed. He should be. His telling the world he didn't know is mighty disingenuous. Like Judge Judy says, "Don't P on my leg and tell me it's raining."

jmo

eta - there is a reason no one is posting here anymore, so I, too, will wait until someone who is polite shows up. Nite.:seeya:

Truthfully, HiLife .... Even though I've been snow bound this past weekend .... I don't believe there is much interest in the NH board anymore, since I feel it's all but over. It was a case followed diligently by some since the beginning. So many things happened in this case which were just plain wrong. It has been a fiasco from beginning to end.

JMO

[HiLife]

Truthfully, HiLife .... Even though I've been snow bound this past weekend .... I don't believe there is much interest in the NH board anymore, since I feel it's all but over. It was a case followed diligently by some since the beginning. So many things happened in this case which were just plain wrong. It has been a fiasco from beginning to end.

JMO

Sorry for the brutal weather. Kinda makes you forget all about all the Global Warming warnings.

I don't think it is because of lack of interest, but the actual board. You can see that the CTV board is moving along. It is telling that interest revives everytime there is breaking news.

Sure, Hans Mos' cruel stunt left many baffled and disappointed, a pathetic way to wrap up the case. I don't feel that Hans Mos' self-imposed deadline to end the Natalee case is of any consequence. Just because he says it is over does not mean it is over. I'm sure (I hope) that ALE will still be open to any leads that should arise.

Yes, I agree - a fiasco from beginning to end.

jmo

[terrysdoor]

i just saw on CNN`s home page that the 3 suspects in Natalee`s disappearance want be charged anyone heard this IMO

[Luke Davis]

i just saw on CNN`s home page that the 3 suspects in Natalee`s disappearance want be charged anyone heard this IMOWOW!



Case Closed (http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=5251790&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.3.1)

[terrysdoor]

WOW!



Case Closed (http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=5251790&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.3.1)

so what happens now will all the suspects no longer be suspects IMO

[Luke Davis]

so what happens now will all the suspects no longer be suspects IMOI'm hearing all sorts of things. Jug was interviewed on Fox. Beth said she can't talk now.

I hope they open/release the crime file and release the FBI photos. The Dutch report on the Deepak recording. The MB grads are free to talk now. The FBI could investigate.



:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[terrysdoor]

I'm hearing all sorts of things. Jug was interviewed on Fox. Beth said she can't talk now.

I hope they open/release the crime file and release the FBI photos. The Dutch report on the Deepak recording. The MB grads are free to talk now. The FBI could investigate.



:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

Luke i read Jug`s interview too does that seem odd to you?

I still haven`t read if all the other suspects were released

I wonder if now people will start talking

[fairmaiden]

I'm hearing all sorts of things. Jug was interviewed on Fox. Beth said she can't talk now.

I hope they open/release the crime file and release the FBI photos. The Dutch report on the Deepak recording. The MB grads are free to talk now. The FBI could investigate.



:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

Thank you, Luke .... Well, Well, Well !!

I'm hoping that some of the things you mention see the light of day.

JMO

[ortiga]

Luke i read Jug`s interview too does that seem odd to you?

I still haven`t read if all the other suspects were released

I wonder if now people will start talking


Jug can only be jealous of Paulus, the difference in the character between the 2 men is so obvious and always has been throughout the case. How small of that little man in MB to personally attack Paulus at this point.

I fervently hope that now that the suspects have been released and there is no suspected crime, that the authors of some of these tiresome and sordid public attacks will be punished.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Natalee video? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRPQSDnH4XU)

[ortiga]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4ApXA7XBb8&feature=related

Phil on Tonight Show with Leno:

"Without creating false hope we have reasonable belief and some credible evidence that Natalee Holloway is alive"

Ca ching!!

[Heyes]

Holloway case has damaged Aruba's reputation
Oranjestad (15 december) - The Aruban Justice Minister Rudy Croes says the recent arrests in the Holloway case have damaged the country's reputation. He says the case has discredited Aruba internationally. He sharply criticised the prosecution for the early release of the suspects.

Mr Croes also complains he was informed too late about the arrests of the Dutch student Joran van der Sloot and the Surinamese Kalpoe brothers. In response, the Public Prosecutor Hans Mos says the Public Prosecutor's Office is in charge of the case and the minister should not interfere.

The Public Prosecutor's Office will announce at the end of the month whether or not it will drop the case against the three suspects. Nineteen-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared in Aruba in May 2005.

RNW (http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/international/5560857/Holloway-case-has-damaged-Arubas-reputation)



And aruba's reputation will stay damaged for many years to come!
Bank on it!
IMO

[Chocoholic]

And aruba's reputation will stay damaged for many years to come!
Bank on it!
IMO

You forgot "BOYCOTT ARUBA" after all that was going to force the government to solve the case. :D

[sweetgranny]

Wouldn't case closed be better than trying someone (who the police feel certain did it) and the suspect is found not guilty therefore he can never be tried for her murder again? I still thinks those boys are behind this and it may have even been accident and they got scared and covered it up somehow and now it it like a snowball.:mad:

[No Nic]

"This whole case was botched from the get-go and it's terribly disappointing that it has come to this," Tillman said.

"There was so much hope and the rug was pulled out from under the family once again," she said. "They pulled the rug out again and again and again and it's just hideous ."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22312287/?GT1=10645

Another accurate description of Aruba "hideous".

imo

[ortiga]

Wouldn't case closed be better than trying someone (who the police feel certain did it) and the suspect is found not guilty therefore he can never be tried for her murder again? I still thinks those boys are behind this and it may have even been accident and they got scared and covered it up somehow and now it it like a snowball.:mad:

Or, she could have gone for a swim and become disoriented due to the alcohol she had consumed all week and possibly from self administered drugs. That is the most likely answer, but can never be proven, so we weave intricate theories to support our own interpretation of the lack of evidence.

IMO

[Heyes]

You forgot "BOYCOTT ARUBA" after all that was going to force the government to solve the case. :D

Force aruba's government? are you kidding. They weren't/aren't going to solve Natalee's case. From the day the security guards were arrested this case was closed. The rest was just a joke! IMO
Aruba proved what it's all about. We watched and listened and learned.
The dangerous j2k2 and aruba will continue on and will just have to deal with the fact that they will be looked at with suspicion. They will be ridiculed, not to mention despised, for the rest of their lives. They made their bed. They can lie in it.
If what we have seen and heard about joran is true, we will hear about him eventually. IMO There is something terribly wrong with that guy and he will end up biting the hand that feeds him. IMO
Oh and
BOYCOTT ARUBA!
It seems to be working. lol good~
aruba will just have to deal with it.

[ortiga]

"This whole case was botched from the get-go and it's terribly disappointing that it has come to this," Tillman said.

"There was so much hope and the rug was pulled out from under the family once again," she said. "They pulled the rug out again and again and again and it's just hideous ."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22312287/?GT1=10645

Another accurate description of Aruba "hideous".

imo

Sunny didn't say that Aruba was hideous, you are misrepresenting what she said.

Somewhat bizarre that they can only get people like Sunny and Jug to comment.

[ortiga]

Force aruba's government? are you kidding. They weren't/aren't going to solve Natalee's case. From the day the security guards were arrested this case was closed. The rest was just a joke! IMO
Aruba proved what it's all about. We watched and listened and learned.
The dangerous j2k2 and aruba will continue on and will just have to deal with the fact that they will be looked at with suspicion. They will be ridiculed, not to mention despised, for the rest of their lives. They made their bed. They can lie in it.
If what we have seen and heard about joran is true, we will hear about him eventually. IMO There is something terribly wrong with that guy and he will end up biting the hand that feeds him. IMO
Oh and
BOYCOTT ARUBA!
It seems to be working. lol good~
aruba will just have to deal with it.

Please provide a link to the allegation you posted as fact that Paulus, Joran, K2 and "Aruba" are "dangerous"

you said

"The dangerous j2k2 and aruba will continue on and will just have to deal with the fact that they will be looked at with suspicion."

[Heyes]

Wouldn't case closed be better than trying someone (who the police feel certain did it) and the suspect is found not guilty therefore he can never be tried for her murder again? I still thinks those boys are behind this and it may have even been accident and they got scared and covered it up somehow and now it it like a snowball.:mad:

Yes sweetgranny, you have a point! My feelings are that aruba has been so dishonest and disingenuous that I just don't have the faith that they would reopen the case. I don't think they want to. I feel that they have been looking for a way to permanently close this case. I can't imagine after all this and the fact that everyone has been looking at this as a murder case involving the suspects, that they would just close it. I thought common sense dictated that a case involving a death or missing with violence suspected as the cause would remain open until solved. IMO aruba wants this to go away and forgotten. Hoping that our money will flood back in. I and many, many others have decided not to sink a penny into that place. I also encourage others to spend their hard earned dollars elsewhere.

All my opinion of course~!

[Heyes]

Please provide a link to the allegation you posted as fact that Paulus, Joran, K2 and "Aruba" are "dangerous"

you said

"The dangerous j2k2 and aruba will continue on and will just have to deal with the fact that they will be looked at with suspicion."

IMO, someone who can lie, and lie and lie to the parents of a missing girl. And has no problem lying to the police is dangerous.
A police dept. that handles cases the way the ale handled this one is dangerous. Especially if your a black security guard living on aruba!'
note: IMO

[kjb19500]

Where is the link to the statement that they have some reason to believe that Natalie is still alive?
Imo, she's very possibly alive, well and living the life she chose away from the restrictions of her parents. Bodies drowned close to shore have a tendency to return with the tide, and there just wasn't enough time to hide her body so well that it has never been found. I also wouldn't be surprised if the suspects had planned and helped her in her getaway, and to cover this up did have discrepencies in their stories. I guess anything is possible.
I've wondered and wondered about her year book entries of "If I leave here tomorrow..." and her infatuation with Lynard Skynard's Freebird song.

[fairmaiden]

Yes sweetgranny, you have a point! My feelings are that aruba has been so dishonest and disingenuous that I just don't have the faith that they would reopen the case. I don't think they want to. I feel that they have been looking for a way to permanently close this case. I can't imagine after all this and the fact that everyone has been looking at this as a murder case involving the suspects, that they would just close it. I thought common sense dictated that a case involving a death or missing with violence suspected as the cause would remain open until solved. IMO aruba wants this to go away and forgotten. Hoping that our money will flood back in. I and many, many others have decided not to sink a penny into that place. I also encourage others to spend their hard earned dollars elsewhere.

All my opinion of course~!

You have this habit of including "everyone" when you post, Heyes. "The fact that everyone has been looking at this as a murder case involving the suspects". There are people who post on THIS board who don't feel that way at all, including myself. There are many people who don't feel the way you do.

This has been made very clear. There is no indication/evidence of a violent crime!!

JMO

[terrysdoor]

You have this habit of including "everyone" when you post, Heyes. "The fact that everyone has been looking at this as a murder case involving the suspects". There are people who post on THIS board who don't feel that way at all, including myself. There are many people who don't feel the way you do.

This has been made very clear. There is no indication/evidence of a violent crime!!

JMO
Fair i agree with you....

i have always felt too much credit was to given to J2K and Paulus why in the world with all the people involved would Aruba cover for them IMO they are not that important and too much focus was on them in the beginning.....

maybe now some people will start talking IMO

[Luke Davis]

Where is the link to the statement that they have some reason to believe that Natalie is still alive?
Imo, she's very possibly alive, well and living the life she chose away from the restrictions of her parents. Bodies drowned close to shore have a tendency to return with the tide, and there just wasn't enough time to hide her body so well that it has never been found. I also wouldn't be surprised if the suspects had planned and helped her in her getaway, and to cover this up did have discrepencies in their stories. I guess anything is possible.
I've wondered and wondered about her year book entries of "If I leave here tomorrow..." and her infatuation with Lynard Skynard's Freebird song.

It is hard for me to imagine a young woman who hates her family so much as to put them and everyone else through years to tortuous emotions.

There was a glimmer of hope when Paulus received a letter, reportedly from Natalee, but I never heard what became of it and can only assume it was fake.

[Heyes]

You have this habit of including "everyone" when you post, Heyes. "The fact that everyone has been looking at this as a murder case involving the suspects". There are people who post on THIS board who don't feel that way at all, including myself. There are many people who don't feel the way you do.

This has been made very clear. There is no indication/evidence of a violent crime!!

JMO
"Everyone" in that particular paragraph meant the ale/aruba. If you had read the whole thing, I was discussing aruba and the ale. not the people who post "on THIS board" Just read it again it will make more sense.
imo

[Grandad]

It is hard for me to imagine a young woman who hates her family so much as to put them and everyone else through years to tortuous emotions.

<snip>

800,00 kids run away from home every year, in this country. While the vast majority are found and brought back home or return home on their own, a significant number refuse to return, even after they've been located.

We don't know what goes on behind our neighbors' doors or in other peoples' minds.

Things are not always what they appear to be.

[Luke Davis]

Jossy fighting mad

Joe Tacopina considering civil suit


News video (http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?p=holloway+case&ei=UTF-8&c=av)

[fairmaiden]

800,00 kids run away from home every year, in this country. While the vast majority are found and brought back home or return home on their own, a significant number refuse to return, even after they've been located.

We don't know what goes on behind our neighbors' doors or in other peoples' minds.

Things are not always what they appear to be.

When Beth arrived on Aruba, immediately posting the "Missing Posters", containing the words .... "We need to talk" ((para??)), it indicated to me, first of all, that Natalee had not been kidnapped, but rather her mother thought she had left voluntarily. It also indicated to me that there was some kind of problem at home.

You are correct, Grandad .... we know nothing about the dynamics in that home. Before anyone jumps all over that .... I'm not saying there was anything wrong .... it was just my first impression. "We need to talk" is just NOT something one would put on a poster if they thought someone had been kidnapped.

None of us knows what happened in the day-to-day lives of the Twitty family, and unless we know Natalee personally, we ONLY know what we have been told.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Jossy fighting mad

Joe Tacopina considering civil suit


News video (http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?p=holloway+case&ei=UTF-8&c=av)

One has to wonder why Jossy Mansur is so invested in this case.

JMO

[ortiga]

Jossy fighting mad

Joe Tacopina considering civil suit


News video (http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?p=holloway+case&ei=UTF-8&c=av)

Luke have you heard if the other suspects are automatically "not to be charged" too?

[Luke Davis]

Luke have you heard if the other suspects are automatically "not to be charged" too?As usual the other suspects were not mentioned as far as I know. I assume it means all suspects. I'm hoping Greta will clear things up later.

[Grandad]

<snip>
"We need to talk" is just NOT something one would put on a poster if they thought someone had been kidnapped.

<snip>


Nor would anyone ask a kidnap victin to please call her.

[No Nic]

Aruba Investigation Into Disappearance of American Teen Natalee Holloway Is Not Over

Tuesday, December 18, 2007

ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Aruban officials have not closed their investigation into the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, FOX News learned Tuesday.

The media liason for the public prosecutor in Aruba dismissed an earlier report that the investigation was over. A press conference scheduled for Thursday will reveal new evidence against three young men last seen with the Alabama teen.

The investigation is in a new phase with detectives reviewing new evidence, the media liason told FOX News.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317293,00.html

[HiLife]

Aruba Investigation Into Disappearance of American Teen Natalee Holloway Is Not Over

Tuesday, December 18, 2007

ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Aruban officials have not closed their investigation into the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway, FOX News learned Tuesday.

The media liason for the public prosecutor in Aruba dismissed an earlier report that the investigation was over. A press conference scheduled for Thursday will reveal new evidence against three young men last seen with the Alabama teen.

The investigation is in a new phase with detectives reviewing new evidence, the media liason told FOX News.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317293,00.html

Un-freaking-believable!

"New evidence???"

Can't wait. :rolleyes:

Thanks, NN! and :seeya:

[No Nic]

Un-freaking-believable!

"New evidence???"

Can't wait. :rolleyes:

Thanks, NN! and :seeya:


:seeya: to you, too.

What the H*** are they doing? Do they even know? Have you ever seen anything like this before? I would imagine that Willard "Bud" Larson's family did see this back in 1999. Sickening, totally sickening. Boycott? No need, imo, Aruba is doing a perfectly good job of scaring tourists away all by themselves.

Their new slogan should be "Visit Aruba...The World's BIGGEST Roller Coaster Ride".

[Luke Davis]

Un-freaking-believable!

"New evidence???"

Can't wait. :rolleyes:

Thanks, NN! and :seeya:I'm reading elsewhere that this is old chats interpreted a new way. I guess we will know Thursday.



FOX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGTp02sdG64)


Interesting that Fox is changing and CNN is sticking with original story.

[Chocoholic]

I'm reading elsewhere that this is old chats interpreted a new way. I guess we will know Thursday.



FOX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGTp02sdG64)


Interesting that Fox is changing and CNN is sticking with original story.


LOL Fox infotainment.

[HiLife]

:seeya: to you, too.

What the H*** are they doing? Do they even know? Have you ever seen anything like this before? I would imagine that Willard "Bud" Larson's family did see this back in 1999. Sickening, totally sickening. Boycott? No need, imo, Aruba is doing a perfectly good job of scaring tourists away all by themselves.

Their new slogan should be "Visit Aruba...The World's BIGGEST Roller Coaster Ride".

Sorry, NN, kids took over the laptop.

So true, can you just imagine how the Larsons must have been jerked around from Day One until they gave up? This is beyond belief.

Now here's a scary thought - Imagine - if they are doing this with the whole world watching them.....what must they have done to the Larsons when the world wasn't watching. Eating their Frosted Flakes, I guess.

jmo

[No Nic]

Sorry, NN, kids took over the laptop.

So true, can you just imagine how the Larsons must have been jerked around from Day One until they gave up? This is beyond belief.

Now here's a scary thought - Imagine - if they are doing this with the whole world watching them.....what must they have done to the Larsons when the world wasn't watching. Eating their Frosted Flakes, I guess.

jmo

With Bud Larson's disappearance they did not even make an attempt to help find him or put on their dog and pony show. They did nothing but send the family off on their own searches...."he was seen here"..."he was seen there" (sounds familiar, doesn't it). As with Natalee, there has been no trace of Bud, (8 years)...."no body, no case".

Aruba has shown the world....if you want to get away with murder, take your victim to Aruba, disappear the body and you are home free. I have no doubt this will happen again, maybe by Joran himself.

[HiLife]

With Bud Larson's disappearance they did not even make an attempt to help find him or put on their dog and pony show. They did nothing but send the family off on their own searches...."he was seen here"..."he was seen there" (sounds familiar, doesn't it). As with Natalee, there has been no trace of Bud, (8 years)...."no body, no case".

Aruba has shown the world....if you want to get away with murder, take your victim to Aruba, disappear the body and you are home free. I have no doubt this will happen again, maybe by Joran himself.

This is why I don't mind them "closing the case." Once Joran and the Kalpoes get nice and relaxed, thinking they are home free, something will slip. Like you, I'm betting it will be Joran.

IMO, He cannot control or stifle himself. These last two years had to be excruciating for him. But he did the interviews, TV and Print (the "FtheB" article), and wrote his fiction to let off some steam. I don't believe it was enough, and it is my opinion we will be hearing about Joran once again.

jmo

[Heyes]

Sorry, NN, kids took over the laptop.

So true, can you just imagine how the Larsons must have been jerked around from Day One until they gave up? This is beyond belief.

Now here's a scary thought - Imagine - if they are doing this with the whole world watching them.....what must they have done to the Larsons when the world wasn't watching. Eating their Frosted Flakes, I guess.

jmo


Happy holidays HiLife!
You brought up something here that I hadn't taken the time to think about. OMG! What did the Larsons go through. The world wasn't watching that time. I can't even imagine the pain and frustration having to deal this this aruban mind set. Insane.
New info on Thurs.? lol Case not closed? lol What in the world kind of pr stunt are they going to try this week? This is a simple case, too bad the ALE couldn't comprehend how to investigate a crime. Oh wait, missing person, oh wait a murder, manslaughter uh duh what were we looking for again? Get me some more frosted flakes! How much money do ya got? Natalee who?

IMO

[Heyes]

With Bud Larson's disappearance they did not even make an attempt to help find him or put on their dog and pony show. They did nothing but send the family off on their own searches...."he was seen here"..."he was seen there" (sounds familiar, doesn't it). As with Natalee, there has been no trace of Bud, (8 years)...."no body, no case".

Aruba has shown the world....if you want to get away with murder, take your victim to Aruba, disappear the body and you are home free. I have no doubt this will happen again, maybe by Joran himself.


Hey No Nic!
Happy Holidays
Hi Life brought that home to me. The poor Larsons. They didn't have the support Beth and Dave have. It must have been a nightmare.
Seems No Body No Case is the trick. Old paulus was right. disappear the body and you are free. Frightening. Fortunatly aruba was their own worst enemy. Now because of the Larsons and Natalee the word is out and people can now avoid that place. Go somewhere where there's some sort of honor and compassion. The ALE on aruba have shown us they are not capable.
Yes we'll hear again from joran. IMO he seems proud of his little crime. He will mess up again. The kalpoes may disappear someday though. The people I talk to say that they expect to hear that the kalpoes just can't be found. Don't know, but anything is possible when it comes to aruba. (((shudder)))
IMO

[ortiga]

Hey No Nic!
Happy Holidays
Hi Life brought that home to me. The poor Larsons. They didn't have the support Beth and Dave have. It must have been a nightmare.
Seems No Body No Case is the trick. Old paulus was right. disappear the body and you are free. Frightening. Fortunatly aruba was their own worst enemy. Now because of the Larsons and Natalee the word is out and people can now avoid that place. Go somewhere where there's some sort of honor and compassion. The ALE on aruba have shown us they are not capable.
Yes we'll hear again from joran. IMO he seems proud of his little crime. He will mess up again. The kalpoes may disappear someday though. The people I talk to say that they expect to hear that the kalpoes just can't be found. Don't know, but anything is possible when it comes to aruba. (((shudder)))
IMO

That is clearly another threat from you and has been reported.

[No Nic]

That is clearly another threat from you and has been reported.

Heyes made no threat. Your attempt to cause trouble for someone who does not agree with your line of thinking is just plain silly.

[HiLife]

Happy holidays HiLife!
You brought up something here that I hadn't taken the time to think about. OMG! What did the Larsons go through. The world wasn't watching that time. I can't even imagine the pain and frustration having to deal this this aruban mind set. Insane.
New info on Thurs.? lol Case not closed? lol What in the world kind of pr stunt are they going to try this week? This is a simple case, too bad the ALE couldn't comprehend how to investigate a crime. Oh wait, missing person, oh wait a murder, manslaughter uh duh what were we looking for again? Get me some more frosted flakes! How much money do ya got? Natalee who?

IMO

Hi, Heyes and HappyHolidays! to you and yours!

If you read this in a book, you wouldn't and couldn't believe something like this could happen. And that it happened with the whole world watching.

"The truth is stranger than fiction" is such a true saying! You can't make this kind of stuff up!

Confession and dead body - oops, no confession or dead body.

Murder, Kidnap - oops, voluntary manslaughter.

New evidence - oops, no new evidence.

Case Closed - oops, case still open.

jmo

[Chocoholic]

IMO, someone who can lie, and lie and lie

I'm surprised to see you write this. beth has lied and lied and lied then when we though it couldn't get worse, she lied some more.

Her book is full of lies.

Anybody have a phone number to the US Embassy in Washington yet?

[Chocoholic]

Hi, Heyes and HappyHolidays! to you and yours!

If you read this in a book, you wouldn't and couldn't believe something like this could happen. And that it happened with the whole world watching.

"The truth is stranger than fiction" is such a true saying! You can't make this kind of stuff up!

Confession and dead body - oops, no confession or dead body.

Murder, Kidnap - oops, voluntary manslaughter.

New evidence - oops, no new evidence.

Case Closed - oops, case still open.

jmo

Unless you take beth's word for it, there was never a confession of a crime or a dead body, there was never any evidence of kidnap murder or gangrape, nor manslaughter, the evidence was never new, it was interpreted by different investigators and if we only go by the word "simple/simpel it would have kept them busy for 2.5 yrs.

The case against J2K is closed, they will not be prosecuted.


ORANJESTAD – The Public Prosecutor (OM) decided not to prosecute the three suspects in the Holloway-case. The dossier does not have enough evidence for a violent crime or culpable homicide. Also the burden of proof for possible legal evidence is not sufficient, concluded the OM.

The OM informed the suspects Joran van der Sloot (20) and the brothers Deepak (24) and Satish Kalpoe (21) this morning that they are no longer being prosecuted. Also the American lawyer of the parents of Natalee Holloway was informed. The fact that the body of the missing teenager was never found is for the OM ‘an important shortage’ in the possible reconstruction of what had exactly happened. “Because of that, the current dossier cannot give sufficient answer on the question which punishable facts took place in the night of Holloway’s disappearance, nor can it answer the question what the exact role of the suspects was in this”, said the OM.

That the suspects continued to be silent during the recent interrogations was also a disappointment for the OM, because they have assumed that the suspects would start talking this time. The OM emphasizes though that if they find new important evidence, the prosecution will start again till the offences become barred, which is 6 years for culpable homicide and 12 years for manslaughter.

The bailiff of the OM informed Lawyer Ariean de Bie of this between 11:00 and 12:00 this morning. “That definitely concludes the case", said De Bie. “All's well that ends well. There was just not enough evidence.”

Yet, it could have just turned the other way. “The OM was constantly talking about less serious facts, for which they could have been prosecuted. But that didn’t happen. They never had any evidence, just indications. And could their indications have legalized this exercise? I wonder why they kept saying: we have evidence, we have evidence.”

http://amigoe.com/english/

[ArubaSteve]

I give up. The pressure is too great. I change my vote to "guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt" and I don't beleive in "innocent until proven guilty" anymore. Lock 'em all up, throw away the key, and just forget the rule of law.

[Heyes]

That is clearly another threat from you and has been reported.


LOL too funny!

[Heyes]

Hi, Heyes and HappyHolidays! to you and yours!

If you read this in a book, you wouldn't and couldn't believe something like this could happen. And that it happened with the whole world watching.

"The truth is stranger than fiction" is such a true saying! You can't make this kind of stuff up!

Confession and dead body - oops, no confession or dead body.

Murder, Kidnap - oops, voluntary manslaughter.

New evidence - oops, no new evidence.

Case Closed - oops, case still open.

jmo

Thanks!
I know what you mean. I bet there are several authors who just shake their head and say, geeeeez, I never could have come up with this story. And if I had no one would believe it!
So today they are supposed to tell us about "new evidence"? LOL LOL
Case not closed? What is in those Frosted Flakes anyways? Maybe boeti has been treating the prosecutor to some of what he sells????
Maybe they give out awards on aruba to the top notch liars every year? That might explain the overwheming desire to misrepresent everything that comes out of their mouths on that little plot of land.
IMO

[Heyes]

This message needs to be heard world wide:

"Tourists have no legal or judicial recourse for crimes commited against them in aruba".

BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Thanks SM!
IMO

[Luke Davis]

Happy Holidays.

Chocoholic, HiLife, Grandad, fairmaiden, JustMyOpinion, ortiga, Heyes, No Nic, SukiJane, terrysdoor, chambord, cassidy, nately, sieg66, docwho3, dallasvic, FrankieBones1, AMS80, Xainia, One2Snoop, Riviera, ArubaSteve, sweetgranny, oops, StarShine, kjb19500, Jadedblueeyes, Beebee, BigBrat, bchand, Freshwater and all the posters at CL.


Happy Holidays.

http://www.redferret.net/Images/happyxmas2006cat.jpg

[Heyes]

http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/john-p-coale.htm

This explains to me why greta is "inclined" to believe joran.
This is just how these people roll! Ice cubes for hearts

http://www.lawyersgunsandmoney.com/coale.htm "As of April 1996, Coale, his wife Greta Van Susteren - who is also his partner in a law firm, and the law firm were all the subject of serious bar disciplinary proceedings in West Virginia, whose state bar's discipline board was seeking to suspend their right to practice law in West Virginia for a year as a result of soliciting prospective clients in ways prohibited by bar rules, generally referred to by the public as "ambulance-chasing"; in Coale's case, the term seems particularly appropriate because one of the incidents that landed him in trouble was his law firm's employee allegedly trying to chat up a severely-burned man in an intensive-care unit."

IMO

[fairmaiden]

http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/john-p-coale.htm

This explains to me why greta is "inclined" to believe joran.
This is just how these people roll! Ice cubes for hearts

http://www.lawyersgunsandmoney.com/coale.htm "As of April 1996, Coale, his wife Greta Van Susteren - who is also his partner in a law firm, and the law firm were all the subject of serious bar disciplinary proceedings in West Virginia, whose state bar's discipline board was seeking to suspend their right to practice law in West Virginia for a year as a result of soliciting prospective clients in ways prohibited by bar rules, generally referred to by the public as "ambulance-chasing"; in Coale's case, the term seems particularly appropriate because one of the incidents that landed him in trouble was his law firm's employee allegedly trying to chat up a severely-burned man in an intensive-care unit."

IMO

Now .... I wonder if you would have presented this to the board had Greta said she was inclined NOT to believe Joran ?? I have no idea what you just posted has to do with what someone thinks, or what it has to do with this case ??

I have seen you attack Joe T., just because of his stance on this case .... now it's Greta's turn ??

JMO

[terrysdoor]

Happy Holidays.

Chocoholic, HiLife, Grandad, fairmaiden, JustMyOpinion, ortiga, Heyes, No Nic, SukiJane, terrysdoor, chambord, cassidy, nately, sieg66, docwho3, dallasvic, FrankieBones1, AMS80, Xainia, One2Snoop, Riviera, ArubaSteve, sweetgranny, oops, StarShine, kjb19500, Jadedblueeyes, Beebee, BigBrat, bchand, Freshwater and all the posters at CL.


Happy Holidays.

http://www.redferret.net/Images/happyxmas2006cat.jpg

Thank you Luke Merry Christmas to you hope to see you on the new forum next year we still have to find answers IMO

[Heyes]

Now .... I wonder if you would have presented this to the board had Greta said she was inclined NOT to believe Joran ?? I have no idea what you just posted has to do with what someone thinks, or what it has to do with this case ??

I have seen you attack Joe T., just because of his stance on this case .... now it's Greta's turn ??

JMO


Just some facts about greta to ponder. Actually she's been sticking her nose very deeply into the Drew Peterson case as well. I personally believe she is getting in the way of serious investigations and needs to stop.
What's that old saying? Something like she's getting a bit too big for her britches? IMO

[Heyes]

Now .... I wonder if you would have presented this to the board had Greta said she was inclined NOT to believe Joran ?? I have no idea what you just posted has to do with what someone thinks, or what it has to do with this case ??

I have seen you attack Joe T., just because of his stance on this case .... now it's Greta's turn ??

JMO

Oh and I haven't "attacked" Joe T. I make fun of him. Big difference. And sooo easy!
IMO

[ortiga]

@@@@spoof warning@@@@


OJ Simpson Now Top Suspect in Natalee Holloway Disappearance


It is believed that Simpson paddled to Aruba in a canoe made from a hollowed out Dodge Caravan in the middle of the night, thus circumventing customs. He then had an argument with a drunken Holloway after finding out she was a New England Patriots fan. This argument subsequently escalated into murder. Since no one had seen Simpson in Aruba and the van he used to cross the ocean was not recovered, Simpson was not investigated until several years later when Aruban prosecutors ran short of evidence and began making wild acquisitions. O.J. Simpson is currently facing charges of robbery, burglary, and kidnapping, leading credence to the quality of character the Aruban police are claiming.

http://www.smthop.com/comments.asp?NewsNum=1046&comment=true

[ortiga]

Evidently Jug is now "Beth Twitty's" spokesman. I can think of only 2 possible reasons for this.

1) Twitty-Holloway is much more likely to get sued than Jug is, and her lawyer has probably told her to keep it shut.

and/or

2) Twitty-Holloway possibly has had additional cosmetic surgery and prefers not to appear on the media at this moment, due to the extensive negative comments that appeared on the message boards after the "girls just wanna have fun" Aruba junket. The fact that Greta did not continue to make available this unflattering video of Twitty is part of the basis for my opinion on this.

IMO

[Heyes]

Evidently Jug is now "Beth Twitty's" spokesman. I can think of only 2 possible reasons for this.

1) Twitty-Holloway is much more likely to get sued than Jug is, and her lawyer has probably told her to keep it shut.

and/or

2) Twitty-Holloway has had additional cosmetic surgery and prefers not to appear on the media at this moment, due to the extensive negative comments that appeared on the message boards after the "girls just wanna have fun" Aruba junket.

IMO

Now why doesn't it suprise me that these would be the "only 2 possible reasons" you can think of?

#2, meow

IMO

[ArubaSteve]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

[ortiga]

For those that like to make threats against Arubans and the boys, here is another opportunity....just sign on the dotted line.....while you peel a banana with the other hand.....

http://www.petitiononline.com/justnat/ :eek:

"The government and people of Aruba independently hold the key to push themselves away from the abyss of destruction. Natalee Holloway's family did not begin this and cannot cease without committing injustice. Only justice can end this confrontation and that is in the power of the Aruban people.

We demand the government and people of Aruba cease and desist of their current investigation and slander campaigns. The government of Aruba shall relinquish all aspects of the investigation into the abduction of Natalee Holloway to Holland and United States authorities and refusal to comply shall constitute another act of injustice by the government and people of Aruba, requiring further retaliatory attacks upon Aruba. "

[ortiga]

Now why doesn't it suprise me that these would be the "only 2 possible reasons" you can think of?

#2, meow

IMO

Actually I also think it may have something to do with money. Beth would probably prefer that Jug badmouth PVDS instead of doing it herself, as it could interfere with donations and possibly also the status of the foundation.

IMO

[ortiga]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.

Merry Christmas and HNY to you too. I hope you are down in Aruba having fun in the sun.

[ArubaSteve]

Very soon, very soon. Can't wait to get back to my friends. Mi stima Aruba. Feliz Navidad.

[Luke Davis]

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - One of three top suspects in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway wrote during an Internet chat session that the teenager was dead, Aruba‘s chief prosecutor said Thursday.



AP (http://www.onelocalnews.com/akronfarmreport/stories1/index.php?action=fullnews&id=106984)

[Chocoholic]

This message needs to be heard world wide:

"Tourists have no legal or judicial recourse for crimes commited against them in aruba".

BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Thanks SM!
IMO

Long live xenophobia and merry christmas to you.

[fairmaiden]

For those that like to make threats against Arubans and the boys, here is another opportunity....just sign on the dotted line.....while you peel a banana with the other hand.....

http://www.petitiononline.com/justnat/ :eek:

"The government and people of Aruba independently hold the key to push themselves away from the abyss of destruction. Natalee Holloway's family did not begin this and cannot cease without committing injustice. Only justice can end this confrontation and that is in the power of the Aruban people.

We demand the government and people of Aruba cease and desist of their current investigation and slander campaigns. The government of Aruba shall relinquish all aspects of the investigation into the abduction of Natalee Holloway to Holland and United States authorities and refusal to comply shall constitute another act of injustice by the government and people of Aruba, requiring further retaliatory attacks upon Aruba. "

ortiga .... This is just laughable !!!

JMO

[ortiga]

ORANJESTAD, Aruba - One of three top suspects in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway wrote during an Internet chat session that the teenager was dead, Aruba‘s chief prosecutor said Thursday.



AP (http://www.onelocalnews.com/akronfarmreport/stories1/index.php?action=fullnews&id=106984)

Betcha that was thought print analysis = hit her head, said she was dead, etc etc etc

And that Mos said "chat" just to distance himself from publicly quoting Hodges

[ortiga]

ortiga .... This is just laughable !!!

JMO

The internet empowers a certain type of person that normally in RL is ignored, ie the type of person who anonymously signs petitions that include a threat, or who makes anonymous veiled threats (the Kalpoes are going to disappear).

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Remember the bone found a few months ago? I never heard much about it, except it was old. It was a shipwrecked sailor from a German ship in the 1800s. So says the Monkey site. I guess if it doesn't implicate J2K the American press won't cover it.:hat:

[fairmaiden]

Remember the bone found a few months ago? I never heard much about it, except it was old. It was a shipwrecked sailor from a German ship in the 1800s. So says the Monkey site. I guess if it doesn't implicate J2K the American press won't cover it.:hat:

Great point, Luke ....

JMO

[Luke Davis]

It just dawned on me! This is Hans Mos's proof Natalee is dead, one of the suspects said so in a chat session.

[Heyes]

Long live xenophobia and merry christmas to you.

still working that xenophobia angle, are ya?
HO HO HO!

[Luke Davis]

Search Blog (http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/12/viii-day-1-side-scan-sonar-search.html)



UPDATE: 20-Dec - 1310 hrs
The search team deploy a Marine Magnetics SeaSpy 'Overhauser' magnetometer to aid in the search. The magnetometer will tow behind the boat approximately 20ft off bottom and detect iron-bearing debris or targets. The mag will be used in conjunction with the side scan sonar.

Wed. 20-Dec -0430 hrs
The Persistence has completed the first day of the side scan sonar search. The search team is very optimistic about the probability of finding Natalee Holloway. The data quality is excellent and the conditions are sufficient to carry out the detailed search.

The first sonar line is generally the most stressful part of the survey. Since the sonar is towed, it is very easy to collide the towfish with an unknown wreck or obstruction. We chose a starting point free of charted obstructions or known wrecks. Once the crew was ready, the side scan sonar was deployed before we reached the search area to provide a long approach to the first line.
Murphy's Law always applies when working offshore. Minutes after deploying the towfish and without warning, an uncharted shipwreck suddenly appears on the sonar screen. Immediately recognizing the danger, I pull in cable as fast as I could to make the side scan climb high in the water column. It's a near-miss. We missed hitting the wreck by just a few feet. After the adrenaline died down, we came around for another pass to better image the wreck. The image below is a snap-shot of the second pass on the approximately 150ft-long unknown wooden wreck.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_d8XtKIwObt4/R0t2NpUyYSI/AAAAAAAAAE8/_4YhhgeL3eM/s1600/Aruba+(Large).jpghttp://bp3.blogger.com/_d8XtKIwObt4/R2qnueDWi9I/AAAAAAAAAI0/_pHl9tOdk8U/s400/Wreck1.jpg

[ortiga]

Search Blog (http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/12/viii-day-1-side-scan-sonar-search.html)



UPDATE: 20-Dec - 1310 hrs
The search team deploy a Marine Magnetics SeaSpy 'Overhauser' magnetometer to aid in the search. The magnetometer will tow behind the boat approximately 20ft off bottom and detect iron-bearing debris or targets. The mag will be used in conjunction with the side scan sonar.

Wed. 20-Dec -0430 hrs
The Persistence has completed the first day of the side scan sonar search. The search team is very optimistic about the probability of finding Natalee Holloway. The data quality is excellent and the conditions are sufficient to carry out the detailed search.

The first sonar line is generally the most stressful part of the survey. Since the sonar is towed, it is very easy to collide the towfish with an unknown wreck or obstruction. We chose a starting point free of charted obstructions or known wrecks. Once the crew was ready, the side scan sonar was deployed before we reached the search area to provide a long approach to the first line.
Murphy's Law always applies when working offshore. Minutes after deploying the towfish and without warning, an uncharted shipwreck suddenly appears on the sonar screen. Immediately recognizing the danger, I pull in cable as fast as I could to make the side scan climb high in the water column. It's a near-miss. We missed hitting the wreck by just a few feet. After the adrenaline died down, we came around for another pass to better image the wreck. The image below is a snap-shot of the second pass on the approximately 150ft-long unknown wooden wreck.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_d8XtKIwObt4/R0t2NpUyYSI/AAAAAAAAAE8/_4YhhgeL3eM/s1600/Aruba+(Large).jpghttp://bp3.blogger.com/_d8XtKIwObt4/R2qnueDWi9I/AAAAAAAAAI0/_pHl9tOdk8U/s400/Wreck1.jpg

So that wrecked ship is approximately 50 times longer than the "fish trap"

[No Nic]

GUILTY AS HE!!


ORANJESTAD, Aruba (CNN) -- In an Internet chat shortly after the May 30, 2005, disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruba, one of the three main suspects in the case said the Alabama teenager was dead, the island's chief public prosecutor told CNN on Thursday

In the chat, Mos told CNN's Susan Candiotti, one of the suspects said, "The fact that she's dead is not good," referring to Holloway.

The female friend said that she could tell during the conversation that something was wrong, Mos said. When she asked about it, the suspect -- whom Mos did not name -- told her that "he didn't want to cause her any trouble, and that what had happened couldn't be discussed over the phone," he said.

A second witness statement came from a teacher who said that another one of the suspects exhibited "very peculiar behavior" the day after Holloway's disappearance, including making or receiving a lot of telephone calls, Mos said.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/12/20/aruba.holloway.case/index.html

What more does anyone need?? Lying, murdering scum! Aruba IS a HE!!ish, EVIL island to let them (him) roam free to prey on unsuspecting girls and murder again. :flamemad:

[Luke Davis]

GUILTY AS HE!!



http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/12/20/aruba.holloway.case/index.html

What more does anyone need?? Lying, murdering scum! Aruba IS a HE!!ish, EVIL island to let them (him) roam free to prey on unsuspecting girls and murder again. :flamemad:

This is new?

[Chocoholic]

still working that xenophobia angle, are ya?
HO HO HO!

I don't call for a boycott, are you?

[HiLife]

Now why doesn't it suprise me that these would be the "only 2 possible reasons" you can think of?

#2, meow

IMO

Love your way with words, Heyes! :D

[HiLife]

Happy Holidays.

Chocoholic, HiLife, Grandad, fairmaiden, JustMyOpinion, ortiga, Heyes, No Nic, SukiJane, terrysdoor, chambord, cassidy, nately, sieg66, docwho3, dallasvic, FrankieBones1, AMS80, Xainia, One2Snoop, Riviera, ArubaSteve, sweetgranny, oops, StarShine, kjb19500, Jadedblueeyes, Beebee, BigBrat, bchand, Freshwater and all the posters at CL.


Happy Holidays.

http://www.redferret.net/Images/happyxmas2006cat.jpg

Aww, Luke. What a cute little kitty! Kinda looks like the Grinch, doesn't it?

May your Holidays be Merry and Bright!

[HiLife]

GUILTY AS HE!!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/12/20/aruba.holloway.case/index.html

What more does anyone need?? Lying, murdering scum! Aruba IS a HE!!ish, EVIL island to let them (him) roam free to prey on unsuspecting girls and murder again. :flamemad:

From the article:

Police wanted to ask the suspect what he meant by that statement, he said, but after their rearrest, all three men exercised their right to remain silent and refused to speak to authorities.

Gee, just remain silent and then get out of jail scot-free! Because you remain silent, the case is dropped and the evidence is not further pursued!

A second witness statement came from a teacher who said that another one of the suspects exhibited "very peculiar behavior" the day after Holloway's disappearance, including making or receiving a lot of telephone calls, Mos said.

The "suspect" has to be Joran - as only Joran and Satish were in school at the time - and the next day, Satish did not go to school because he felt sick.

A fourth piece of new evidence came when authorities bugged the Kalpoe home in June and picked up a conversation about what happened that night, he said, but did not elaborate.

This just shows MORE "evidence" that ALE didn't bother to follow up!


NN, this whole thing is making me sicker by the day. What more does anyone need than this to understand these MEN are in this up to their lying mouths - that they are the ones who harmed Natalee.

This is getting worse by the day - to see how these monsters slipped through ALE's incomptent cracks.

jmo

[HiLife]

Search Blog (http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/12/viii-day-1-side-scan-sonar-search.html)

UPDATE: 20-Dec - 1310 hrs
The search team deploy a Marine Magnetics SeaSpy 'Overhauser' magnetometer to aid in the search. The magnetometer will tow behind the boat approximately 20ft off bottom and detect iron-bearing debris or targets. The mag will be used in conjunction with the side scan sonar.

Wed. 20-Dec -0430 hrs
The Persistence has completed the first day of the side scan sonar search. The search team is very optimistic about the probability of finding Natalee Holloway. The data quality is excellent and the conditions are sufficient to carry out the detailed search.

The first sonar line is generally the most stressful part of the survey. Since the sonar is towed, it is very easy to collide the towfish with an unknown wreck or obstruction. We chose a starting point free of charted obstructions or known wrecks. Once the crew was ready, the side scan sonar was deployed before we reached the search area to provide a long approach to the first line.
Murphy's Law always applies when working offshore. Minutes after deploying the towfish and without warning, an uncharted shipwreck suddenly appears on the sonar screen. Immediately recognizing the danger, I pull in cable as fast as I could to make the side scan climb high in the water column. It's a near-miss. We missed hitting the wreck by just a few feet. After the adrenaline died down, we came around for another pass to better image the wreck. The image below is a snap-shot of the second pass on the approximately 150ft-long unknown wooden wreck.



Thanks for bringing this info here, Luke - I was wondering how the search was going.