Discussion Thread 2007 (Part 6)

[Heyes]

Any credible links to known "bad behavior" or only your suspicion?

Actually I believe it was stated that he only received a bible to read. Would that be constitutional in the US? No access to a lawyer, deprived from everything but food, water and a possibly a bed and toilet?

Sounds like solitary confinement to me, except a little harsher, because even in solitary confinement I believe the person being held gets to exercise outside it's cell.

Aw shoot!
Now where did I put my violin?
:D

[No Nic]

DSL was down for hours in our area....

anyway, interesting you bring this up, terry. So Beth was picked up at her high rise and taken to the police station? ALE picked her up? Is this why she was 1/2 hour late?

LOL - of course.....it's somehow always Beth's fault or some nefarious Beth behavior. :rolleyes:

jmo

What is really funny is Glenda/Julia is over at RU telling everyone that ALE DID NOT pick Beth up. (Yes, Fair, bad, bad me, I am reading over there :D ) Is she believable? Not to me, but maybe she is turning over a new leaf. :shrug: You'd think she would want to leave the "picked up by ALE" stand and she didn't.

This whole "interrogation" BS is being blown all out of proportion in an attempt to bash Beth, nothing more, nothing less.

JKQ is about to be on Greta, since he was there, I will listen to what he says.

imo

[Heyes]

I don't even know where to begin with this post.

I should think no one would want to waste time "reading back" about the most obvious, latest rumor about a taxi driver overhearing.....blah, blah, blah....telephone game. Why should Cindy Adams have her own column when being a taxi driver qualifies you for a spot with the National Enquirer.......first a taxi driver overhears about the mythical Blue-Eyed Dutch Marine.....now a taxi driver overhears bank transactions and rehab rumors. How exciting. :rolleyes:

Puzzling to me how people are looking for Beth to be in "pain" or "upset." Tito Lacle is nothing but an Aruba Spinster who spews Aruba propaganda. He knows nothing about Beth or Dave or what went on in their meeting. These people will never learn about wishing harm to others.....jmo

Sad, sad, sick and sad. IMO
Even with all of the latest activity swirling around the primary suspect and his buddies, there are a few who persist with the " It's Beth's fault" nonsense.
I just don't understand. :shrug:
IMO!

[fairmaiden]

What is really funny is Glenda/Julia is over at RU telling everyone that ALE DID NOT pick Beth up. (Yes, Fair, bad, bad me, I am reading over there :D ) Is she believable? Not to me, but maybe she is turning over a new leaf. :shrug: You'd think she would want to leave the "picked up by ALE" stand and she didn't.

This whole "interrogation" BS is being blown all out of proportion in an attempt to bash Beth, nothing more, nothing less.

JKQ is about to be on Greta, since he was there, I will listen to what he says.

imo

No Nic .... Just for the record .... I could care less where you read. YOU're the one who constantly calls it a "hate site". It DOES seem to get your attention though .... then you come here and post what you read there .... :shrug:

JMO

[HiLife]

What is really funny is Glenda/Julia is over at RU telling everyone that ALE DID NOT pick Beth up. (Yes, Fair, bad, bad me, I am reading over there :D ) Is she believable? Not to me, but maybe she is turning over a new leaf. :shrug: You'd think she would want to leave the "picked up by ALE" stand and she didn't.

This whole "interrogation" BS is being blown all out of proportion in an attempt to bash Beth, nothing more, nothing less.

JKQ is about to be on Greta, since he was there, I will listen to what he says.

imo

Well, there would be nothing to talk about if Beth was late because of ALE who picked her up! Of course, Julia/Glenda would write such baloney. And people believe it. :rolleyes:

The hilarious part (after having egg on their faces about the ALE pickup) is the further insinuation that ALE had to pick Beth up because she wouldn't come in to the station when she found out she'd be questioned! Anything to make Beth at fault somehow! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Please let me know what happens on the program.....guests have taken over the TV!

jmo

How about

[HiLife]

No Nic .... Just for the record .... I could care less where you read. YOU're the one who constantly calls it a "hate site". It DOES seem to get your attention though .... then you come here and post what you read there .... :shrug:

JMO

"Keep your friends close, and keep your enemies closer?" :shrug:

"Fore-warned is fore-armed?" :shrug:

[HiLife]

Sad, sad, sick and sad. IMO
Even with all of the latest activity swirling around the primary suspect and his buddies, there are a few who persist with the " It's Beth's fault" nonsense.
I just don't understand. :shrug:
IMO!

I don't understand it either. Maybe we should ask a taxi driver - they seem to know everything! Heh, heh!

jmo

[Chocoholic]

Aw shoot!
Now where did I put my violin?
:D
http://moblog.co.uk/blogs/2541/moblog_bfb2fc0fd2f37.jpg

I was playing it for beth, here you go.

[Chocoholic]

Well, there would be nothing to talk about if Beth was late because of ALE who picked her up! Of course, Julia/Glenda would write such baloney. And people believe it. :rolleyes:

The hilarious part (after having egg on their faces about the ALE pickup) is the further insinuation that ALE had to pick Beth up because she wouldn't come in to the station when she found out she'd be questioned! Anything to make Beth at fault somehow! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Please let me know what happens on the program.....guests have taken over the TV!

jmo

How about

I didn't see any insinuation from anywhere that beth had to be picked up otherwise she wouldn't come. Can you post a link to that or is it just your opinion?

I've read two versions. One was from Diario which is originally in Papiamento, and I don't know the language well enough to vow to state whether or not it states that beth was picked up. The other version has it that beth had an appointment.

Either way, all versions are clear about one thing. beth had wanted this appointment and she was a half hour late. She was also interrogated for more than several hours.

I thought the object was to find out what really happened to Natalee, unless of course that is no longer important.

[fairmaiden]

I didn't see any insinuation from anywhere that beth had to be picked up otherwise she wouldn't come. Can you post a link to that or is it just your opinion?

I've read two versions. One was from Diario which is originally in Papiamento, and I don't know the language well enough to vow to state whether or not it states that beth was picked up. The other version has it that beth had an appointment.

Either way, all versions are clear about one thing. beth had wanted this appointment and she was a half hour late. She was also interrogated for more than several hours.

I thought the object was to find out what really happened to Natalee, unless of course that is no longer important.

Well .... just reading on a few boards .... people are actually saying that Beth wasn't "interrogated" .... she just had a MEETING with the interrogators .... huh ???? Something like No Nic said earlier .... Beth wasn't "interrogated", in the true sense of the word.

JMO

[Chocoholic]

Well .... just reading on a few boards .... people are actually saying that Beth wasn't "interrogated" .... she just had a MEETING with the interrogators .... huh ???? Something like No Nic said earlier .... Beth wasn't "interrogated", in the true sense of the word.

JMO

LOL ok, she was just having a polite cuppa tea and biscuits with the nice gentlemen who are known as interrogators.

Joran isn't really in jail.

Natalee isn't really missing.

The earth isn't really round.

From what I heard.

Have you seen Heli's transcript from Greta's show tonight? Even JQK believes there isn't enough evidence to hold anybody and feels that Joran will be out by Friday if not sooner.

Not a word about his client's "interview".

[fairmaiden]

LOL ok, she was just having a polite cuppa tea and biscuits with the nice gentlemen who are known as interrogators.

Joran isn't really in jail.

Natalee isn't really missing.

The earth isn't really round.

From what I heard.

Have you seen Heli's transcript from Greta's show tonight? Even JQK believes there isn't enough evidence to hold anybody and feels that Joran will be out by Friday if not sooner.

Not a word about his client's "interview".

Yes, I did read it, Choco. He essentially said there was "no new evidence". Did Greta actually ask him about Beth's "interview"?? I think I missed that.

JMO

[Chocoholic]

Yes, I did read it, Choco. He essentially said there was "no new evidence". Did Greta actually ask him about Beth's "interview"?? I think I missed that.

JMO

I think we all missed that. Surprising isn't it?

[ortiga]

Yes, I did read it, Choco. He essentially said there was "no new evidence". Did Greta actually ask him about Beth's "interview"?? I think I missed that.

JMO

Hello FM (1!)

This interchange between Greta and JQK may allude to the "interview" although it is a little vague:

Transcription by Heli on RU

"John, how was your weekend?

JQK:

Disappointing Greta. It was disappointing to me and actually, extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there. "
--------------------------------------------------------------
And this statement by Greta is illuminating, saying that the prosecutor attributed one of the reasons the investigation had failed is "the family". But what does she mean by DA? The prosecutor? Maybe if someone saw this they can clear it up, it sounds like MOS blamed the family in part for the failure. I would agree with this line of thought, as we don't know what turn the investigation would have taken if the posse had not challenged the VDS that night at their house.

"Greta:

I sat with the prosecutor and I thought he was a pretty smart guy until this unfolded but he told me the reason the investigation had failed was because of two reasons, one is the family and bringing in the DA who didn't happen to be on the island at the time, and the other was the media. That's why he said that this has failed. "

---------------
here's another quote from JQK, but I think he has been out of touch, as we all know the boys WERE questioned separately. I don't know why he would say that.

"JQK:

I think it was extremely incompetent to start. You had 3 young men, the last ones who were seen with her, they knew what car she had been in, she was missing with ID, credit cards, money, no cellphone, nothing, she didn't disappear on her own and they didn't seize the car, they didn't detain the boys originally, they didn't question them separately, I think it was all incompetent"
--------------------------

Anyway, very interesting, and he thinks Joran will be released this week too.

IMO

[ortiga]

Greta also repeated publicly, last night, (again, that's the 3rd time IIRC) that she is still inclined to believe Joran.

Link on RU.

[ortiga]

No Nic .... Just for the record .... I could care less where you read. YOU're the one who constantly calls it a "hate site". It DOES seem to get your attention though .... then you come here and post what you read there .... :shrug:

JMO

Ain't that the truth. If someone thinks the web site they are reading is a "hate" site, why would they continue to read there and then bring it over here? All sites have their good points and bad points, I don't think there is a need to constantly refer here to "hate" sites.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

[terrysdoor]

DSL was down for hours in our area....

anyway, interesting you bring this up, terry. So Beth was picked up at her high rise and taken to the police station? ALE picked her up? Is this why she was 1/2 hour late?

LOL - of course.....it's somehow always Beth's fault or some nefarious Beth behavior. :rolleyes:

jmo

"catching up"......... Hi i was not in any way saying anything about Beth in a negative way my post was directed to the news reports that come out and NOONE has the same story and IMO that has been a big problem all along IMO

[fairmaiden]

"catching up"......... Hi i was not in any way saying anything about Beth in a negative way my post was directed to the news reports that come out and NOONE has the same story and IMO that has been a big problem all along IMO

Good morning, terry .... A truer statement was never uttered regarding this case. "Inconsistencies" ABOUND !!

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Hello FM (1!)

This interchange between Greta and JQK may allude to the "interview" although it is a little vague:

Transcription by Heli on RU

"John, how was your weekend?

JQK:

Disappointing Greta. It was disappointing to me and actually, extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there. "
--------------------------------------------------------------
And this statement by Greta is illuminating, saying that the prosecutor attributed one of the reasons the investigation had failed is "the family". But what does she mean by DA? The prosecutor? Maybe if someone saw this they can clear it up, it sounds like MOS blamed the family in part for the failure. I would agree with this line of thought, as we don't know what turn the investigation would have taken if the posse had not challenged the VDS that night at their house.

"Greta:

I sat with the prosecutor and I thought he was a pretty smart guy until this unfolded but he told me the reason the investigation had failed was because of two reasons, one is the family and bringing in the DA who didn't happen to be on the island at the time, and the other was the media. That's why he said that this has failed. "

---------------
here's another quote from JQK, but I think he has been out of touch, as we all know the boys WERE questioned separately. I don't know why he would say that.

"JQK:

I think it was extremely incompetent to start. You had 3 young men, the last ones who were seen with her, they knew what car she had been in, she was missing with ID, credit cards, money, no cellphone, nothing, she didn't disappear on her own and they didn't seize the car, they didn't detain the boys originally, they didn't question them separately, I think it was all incompetent"
--------------------------

Anyway, very interesting, and he thinks Joran will be released this week too.

IMO

Good morning, ortiga ....

Since last week, I have doubted the Prosecutor has any "new evidence". JQK said there was "no new evidence". He certainly seems to be very unhappy since his visit.

I believe it has all been a last ditch effort to ingerrogate Joran et al before closing this case.

If it wasn't before, it is fast becoming a circus.

JMO

[ortiga]

Good morning, ortiga ....

Since last week, I have doubted the Prosecutor has any "new evidence". JQK said there was "no new evidence". He certainly seems to be very unhappy since his visit.

I believe it has all been a last ditch effort to ingerrogate Joran et al before closing this case.

If it wasn't before, it is fast becoming a circus.

JMO

lol FM, ingerrogate sounds pretty bad.

[fairmaiden]

lol FM, ingerrogate sounds pretty bad.

LOL ortiga .... :eek: :rose:

[Chocoholic]

lol FM, ingerrogate sounds pretty bad.

They weren't interrogated, you read it on the board here :punch: Interrogation is not bad, depending on which side of the table you sit. :D

Besides beth was never in a cell, I doubt she was tortured, as is still legal under Aruban law and I doubt she lacked water and food.

[Luke Davis]

DSL was down for hours in our area....

anyway, interesting you bring this up, terry. So Beth was picked up at her high rise and taken to the police station? ALE picked her up? Is this why she was 1/2 hour late?

LOL - of course.....it's somehow always Beth's fault or some nefarious Beth behavior. :rolleyes:

jmo

I think I missed something, who said it was Beth's fault?

[Luke Davis]

[QUOTE=HiLife;9078424]I don't understand it either. Maybe we should ask a taxi driver - they seem to know everything! Heh, heh!

jmo


http://boards.crimelibrary.com/images/icons/lol.gif

Careful, now I'm drinking coffee.:hat:

[HiLife]

I think I missed something, who said it was Beth's fault?

You don't miss anything, Luke!

[HiLife]

"catching up"......... Hi i was not in any way saying anything about Beth in a negative way my post was directed to the news reports that come out and NOONE has the same story and IMO that has been a big problem all along IMO

Sorry, terry, didn't mean to attribute that to you! :)

[Luke Davis]

Greta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzanCCUmvko)

more Greta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP9zizTbp4E)

Lineup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxgqo0OGTuA)

Beth was a half hour later than expected.

Redeye (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8OBLMRGuuI)

Drinking and sex can kill you:hat:

Cavuto (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erLdm4eBlO8)

Aruba tourism

[Luke Davis]

You don't miss anything, Luke!
What I heard was Beth was later than expected. I assume expected by the press. Who knows if the press had the right time or if Beth perhaps (or someone else) wanted to avoid the press.

I can remember a case, I think it was Paris Hilton, where the press was waiting in front of a parking garage at the court house. Paris had already gone in a back door.

I believe in this case, the Kalpoe brothers locations were kept secret to avoid the press.
:shrug:

[Luke Davis]

VAN SUSTEREN: Karin Janssen, the former chief prosecutor, look good right now?

KELLY: I think she brought more passion to the case. No more answers, but I think she was fully committed to the case, Greta.



FOX (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html)

[terrysdoor]

VAN SUSTEREN: Karin Janssen, the former chief prosecutor, look good right now?

KELLY: I think she brought more passion to the case. No more answers, but I think she was fully committed to the case, Greta.



FOX (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html)

i just don`t understand why this Hos Mos would put himself out there like that i wonder if he will tell what he thought the "new evidence" was IMO

[ortiga]

Greta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzanCCUmvko)

more Greta (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP9zizTbp4E)

Lineup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxgqo0OGTuA)

Beth was a half hour later than expected.

Redeye (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8OBLMRGuuI)

Drinking and sex can kill you:hat:

Cavuto (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erLdm4eBlO8)

Aruba tourism

Thanks for the links. That last one, Cavuto was bizarre, Cavuto never understood what that fat guy was saying, and the fat guy kept changing his numbers. Who was that guy anyway?

IMO

[Luke Davis]

I had company last night and didn't listen to Dana Pretzer live. Now, it looks like Beth and her friends didn't show. Did anyone listen?

:hat:

[ortiga]

Greta said that Hans Mos told her that the failure of the investigation was because of the family and media and who....DA or DEA?

The way Greta worded this, IMO is that she thought he was smart until this just unfolded, ie the release of K2, which means she didn't have any problem with his earlier statements about the family, the media and the DA or DEA. That's the way I read it. She still doesn't seem to criticize that particular point of view.

I'm surprised that this statement from the prosecutor has got so little play, and I wonder if this is why Beth left the interrogation visibly angry, IIRC.

MOO



"Greta:

I sat with the prosecutor and I thought he was a pretty smart guy until this unfolded but he told me the reason the investigation had failed was because of two reasons, one is the family and bringing in the DA who didn't happen to be on the island at the time, and the other was the media. That's why he said that this has failed. "

[terrysdoor]

Greta said that Hans Mos told her that the failure of the investigation was because of the family and media and who....DA or DEA?

The way Greta worded this, IMO is that she thought he was smart until this just unfolded, ie the release of K2, which means she didn't have any problem with his earlier statements about the family, the media and the DA or DEA. That's the way I read it. She still doesn't seem to criticize that particular point of view.

I'm surprised that this statement from the prosecutor has got so little play, and I wonder if this is why Beth left the interrogation visibly angry, IIRC.



"Greta:

I sat with the prosecutor and I thought he was a pretty smart guy until this unfolded but he told me the reason the investigation had failed was because of two reasons, one is the family and bringing in the DA who didn't happen to be on the island at the time, and the other was the media. That's why he said that this has failed. "

i wonder if that is the DEA agent Beth told Greta or Nancy i don`t remember which "that is a whole different story" i was always curious what beth meant IIRC

[ortiga]

i wonder if that is the DEA agent Beth told Greta or Nancy i don`t remember which "that is a whole different story" i was always curious what beth meant IIRC

Wouldn't it be interesting to sit down with Mr. DEA and with C Croes and hear what really was said that night by Beth and the Fab 7.

[Luke Davis]

Last night I was surprised how depressed JQK was. I remember about a week ago he was so up. I have to wonder did JQK not understand or was he lied to? He was so sure of the evidence, it was strong but now it is nothing.

Remember this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwG4TvGJdQI)

MOO

[fairmaiden]

Last night I was surprised how depressed JQK was. I remember about a week ago he was so up. I have to wonder did JQK not understand or was he lied to? He was so sure of the evidence, it was strong but now it is nothing.

Remember this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwG4TvGJdQI)

MOO

Luke .... I really think when JQK talked to Greta last week, he was sort of "spinning", as ALL attorneys tend to do .... certainly not just Defense Attorneys.

I've always been of the opinion that the Prosecutor didn't have "new evidence", and to hear JQK say that, just confirms my belief. They have to bring resolution to this, one way or the other .... SOON !! I could never understand why, if they HAD this "new evidence", they didn't CHARGE Joran et al. I said last week sometime .... it all seems like a "game" to me.

I'm of the belief they don't have sufficient evidence ((if any)) to PROVE a crime was committed.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

De Bie is of the opinion that the OM has still not succeeded in the investigation. Especially the American side is according to him, totally underexposed. “Natalee Holloway has a very active mother and an arms merchant as stepfather that apparently has contacts in the White House. The FBI did some interrogations in the US, but not thoroughly enough. There are many questions to be asked on this.”



Amigoe in English (http://www.amigoe.com/english/)

[HiLife]

Last night I was surprised how depressed JQK was. I remember about a week ago he was so up. I have to wonder did JQK not understand or was he lied to? He was so sure of the evidence, it was strong but now it is nothing.

Remember this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwG4TvGJdQI)

MOO

Isn't this the most confounding thing? I now believe that JQK and the world were LIED to by Hans Mos. I had such faith after hearing this Mos go on TV and in interviews and state unequivocally that they had new evidence. There is no getting around the fact these words were said, and said several times.

What is going on here?!? I am floored. I can't imagine how the Holloways feel? JQK was even at a loss for words last night to describe the disappointment and cruelty of such misleading events.

How did Mos get up in front of the world and say they had new evidence - yet in reality had no new evidence??!! He even mentioned in one interview (paraphrased) how they weighed the decision carefully, knowing Aruba's reputation was at stake, before deciding to go ahead with the arrests. No one asked him to do this - and frankly, I don't think anyone was expecting anything to happen regarding the case. Yet Mos decided to drag this out in front of the world......to what end??

WT* is going on?

jmo

[Chocoholic]

Quote:
De Bie is of the opinion that the OM has still not succeeded in the investigation. Especially the American side is according to him, totally underexposed. “Natalee Holloway has a very active mother and an arms merchant as stepfather that apparently has contacts in the White House. The FBI did some interrogations in the US, but not thoroughly enough. There are many questions to be asked on this.”
Amigoe in English



Arms merchant, priceless. I wondered how beth could state that there was a connection to North Korea, I'm beginning to understand.

[Luke Davis]

Isn't this the most confounding thing? I now believe that JQK and the world were LIED to by Hans Mos. I had such faith after hearing this Mos go on TV and in interviews and state unequivocally that they had new evidence. There is no getting around the fact these words were said, and said several times.

What is going on here?!? I am floored. I can't imagine how the Holloways feel? JQK was even at a loss for words last night to describe the disappointment and cruelty of such misleading events.

How did Mos get up in front of the world and say they had new evidence - yet in reality had no new evidence??!! He even mentioned in one interview (paraphrased) how they weighed the decision carefully, knowing Aruba's reputation was at stake, before deciding to go ahead with the arrests. No one asked him to do this - and frankly, I don't think anyone was expecting anything to happen regarding the case. Yet Mos decided to drag this out in front of the world......to what end??

WT* is going on?

jmo

I think Greta was inclined to believe him too.

[HiLife]

I think Greta was inclined to believe him too.

Sounds like Greta probably believes in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus, too.

(cute bells!)

[Chocoholic]

Isn't this the most confounding thing? I now believe that JQK and the world were LIED to by Hans Mos. I had such faith after hearing this Mos go on TV and in interviews and state unequivocally that they had new evidence. There is no getting around the fact these words were said, and said several times.

What is going on here?!? I am floored. I can't imagine how the Holloways feel? JQK was even at a loss for words last night to describe the disappointment and cruelty of such misleading events.

How did Mos get up in front of the world and say they had new evidence - yet in reality had no new evidence??!! He even mentioned in one interview (paraphrased) how they weighed the decision carefully, knowing Aruba's reputation was at stake, before deciding to go ahead with the arrests. No one asked him to do this - and frankly, I don't think anyone was expecting anything to happen regarding the case. Yet Mos decided to drag this out in front of the world......to what end??

WT* is going on?

jmo

I done tole you all months ago. Dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s. Sure brought beth back for some questioning.

I've been saying for months, nay almost 2 yrs that there is no evidence of a crime. But hey, why start believing me now?

Perhaps bringing beth back to Aruba for questioning on the prosecutors terms is exactly what Hans Mos wanted.

I take it you're not longer doing your happy dance?

[HiLife]

I done tole you all months ago. Dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s. Sure brought beth back for some questioning.

I've been saying for months, nay almost 2 yrs that there is no evidence of a crime. But hey, why start believing me now?

Perhaps bringing beth back to Aruba for questioning on the prosecutors terms is exactly what Hans Mos wanted.

I take it you're not longer doing your happy dance?

I wasn't doing the happy dance. I was doing back flips. I was suckered into believing this cruel man and his lie (Heyes, you nailed this guy from the beginning about who he was!) about having new evidence.

I wanted a mother and father to find their daughter. Bringing Beth and Dave back for questioning was a low-down thing to do. They have nothing to do with her daughter's disappearance and this makes Mos sound and look like a total fool. There is no justice to be found on this Island. Just lies.

I believe the truth will out, not today, not tomorrow, but someday.

jmo

[Chocoholic]

Sounds like Greta probably believes in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus, too.

(cute bells!)

Greta believes in ratings. imo

Was Greta ever quoted as stating that she was inclined to believe beth's lies?

[Chocoholic]

I wasn't doing the happy dance. I was doing back flips. I was suckered into believing this cruel man and his lie (Heyes, you nailed this guy from the beginning about who he was!) about having new evidence.

I wanted a mother and father to find their daughter. Bringing Beth and Dave back for questioning was a low-down thing to do. They have nothing to do with her daughter's disappearance and this makes Mos sound and look like a total fool. There is no justice to be found on this Island. Just lies.

I believe the truth will out, not today, not tomorrow, but someday.

jmo

There are plenty of reasons to question beth, I have no idea if dave was questioned. They weren't "brought" back, they came of their own accord, completely voluntarily, ready no doubt to blast Aruba for more supposed corruption, incompetence and cover-ups. IMO

I don't believe that beth and dave have been questioned enough, if I can create a short list of beth's easy to find inconsistencies I have no doubt that 2.5 yrs of intense investigation will have brought forth much more.

Cruel? GMAB. Cruel is punishing an entire nation by calling for a boycott, people who had nothing at all to do with her daughter disappearing. Find me some evidence of a crime and I might reconsider, so far NADA.

[fairmaiden]

Isn't this the most confounding thing? I now believe that JQK and the world were LIED to by Hans Mos. I had such faith after hearing this Mos go on TV and in interviews and state unequivocally that they had new evidence. There is no getting around the fact these words were said, and said several times.

What is going on here?!? I am floored. I can't imagine how the Holloways feel? JQK was even at a loss for words last night to describe the disappointment and cruelty of such misleading events.

How did Mos get up in front of the world and say they had new evidence - yet in reality had no new evidence??!! He even mentioned in one interview (paraphrased) how they weighed the decision carefully, knowing Aruba's reputation was at stake, before deciding to go ahead with the arrests. No one asked him to do this - and frankly, I don't think anyone was expecting anything to happen regarding the case. Yet Mos decided to drag this out in front of the world......to what end??

WT* is going on?

jmo

HiLife .... Like you, I'm dumbfounded by this whole thing too. It makes me believe what I thought at the very beginning of this case. There is something just not right here. I've ALWAYS had that belief.

Unlike you, however, I never thought there WAS any "new evidence". I thought it was this last-ditch effort to question Joran et al. Perhaps it WAS a ruse to get Beth back to Aruba, so that she could be questioned, which I absolutely believe she was. One doesn't just "meet" with interrogators .... one is questioned by them.

JMO

[HiLife]

HiLife .... Like you, I'm dumbfounded by this whole thing too. It makes me believe what I thought at the very beginning of this case. There is something just not right here. I've ALWAYS had that belief.

Unlike you, however, I never thought there WAS any "new evidence". I thought it was this last-ditch effort to question Joran et al. Perhaps it WAS a ruse to get Beth back to Aruba, so that she could be questioned, which I absolutely believe she was. One doesn't just "meet" with interrogators .... one is questioned by them.

JMO

There is something not right here. Totally. Unbelievably.

What kind of a Chief Prosecutor would state on TV (several times) he had new evidence when he didn't - doesn't even compute. Such a blatant lie. One that was discovered only days later? Incredible.

A ruse to get Beth back to Aruba makes even less sense, FM. To what end? For what purpose? I wonder what is going to happen when people get over the shock of what has happened here in the past few weeks. No wonder JQK was at a loss for words. I cannot even verbalize what I feel yet either.

I give up.

jmo

[Chocoholic]

There is something not right here. Totally. Unbelievably.

What kind of a Chief Prosecutor would state on TV he had new evidence when he didn't - doesn't even compute. Such a blatant lie. One that was discovered only days later? Incredible.

A ruse to get Beth back to Aruba makes even less sense, FM. To what end? For what purpose? I wonder what is going to happen when people get over the shock of what has happened here in the past few weeks. No wonder JQK was at a loss for words. I cannot even verbalize what I feel yet either.

I give up.

jmo

IIRC several people refused to be interviewed by the FBI for ALE in MB. If Mohammed can't go to the mountain then somehow the mountain will have to be moved to Mohammed.

[HiLife]

IIRC several people refused to be interviewed by the FBI for ALE in MB. If Mohammed can't go to the mountain then somehow the mountain will have to be moved to Mohammed.

This is yet another rumor, that "several people refused to be interviewed by the FBI for ALE in MB."

Moving past the rumor, what would "several people refusing..." have to do with Beth being questioned now? Nothing.

This latest Aruban doozy continues to bear out what Beth described in her book regarding the continual roadblocks they encountered. This one took the cake.

jmo

[Chocoholic]

This is yet another rumor, that "several people refused to be interviewed by the FBI for ALE in MB."

Moving past the rumor, what would "several people refusing..." have to do with Beth being questioned now? Nothing.

This latest Aruban doozy continues to bear out what Beth described in her book regarding the continual roadblocks they encountered. This one took the cake.

jmo
LOL beth and her book of "truths"? We still haven't gotten the number to the US Embassy in Washington which she and Matt contacted.

[Luke Davis]

This is yet another rumor, that "several people refused to be interviewed by the FBI for ALE in MB."

Moving past the rumor, what would "several people refusing..." have to do with Beth being questioned now? Nothing.

This latest Aruban doozy continues to bear out what Beth described in her book regarding the continual roadblocks they encountered. This one took the cake.

jmo

I have to wonder if Greta and Beth going into an empty police staion and making fun of Aruba, didn't just drive some officials up the wall. Now, Greta looks like a fool and Beth has been run through the wringer. Or it is just a quinky dink.:hat:

[HiLife]

I have to wonder if Greta and Beth going into an empty police staion and making fun of Aruba, didn't just drive some officials up the wall. Now, Greta looks like a fool and Beth has been run through the wringer. Or it is just a quinky dink.:hat:

That's nice thinking outside the box, Luke, but would Mos really "take one for the team" like that and show himself as a liar before the world? What he's done is unspeakably unprofessional and cruel.

jmo

[Chocoholic]

That's nice thinking outside the box, Luke, but would Mos really "take one for the team" like that and show himself as a liar before the world? What he's done is unspeakably unprofessional and cruel.

jmo


It's very cruel that J2K were re-arrested based on no evidence, I'll agree with that.

[JustMyOpinion]

It's very cruel that J2K were re-arrested based on no evidence, I'll agree with that.


You are stating your opinioin as fact with no substantiation, IMO.
They were re-arrested based on evidence, IMO.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html?iref=topnews
The judge reasoned Friday that "the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said.

But people accused of those crimes do not qualify for pretrial detention under Aruban law, Mos told reporters. He noted that on Monday, the same judge approved van der Sloot's continuing detention based on the same evidence.

[JustMyOpinion]

IIRC several people refused to be interviewed by the FBI for ALE in MB.


Please link to published source which substantiates this recollection you state as fact. How many people refused interviews with the FBI, what are their names? TIA.

[JustMyOpinion]

Unlike you, however, I never thought there WAS any "new evidence". JMO
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html?iref=topnews
The judge reasoned Friday that "the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said.

But people accused of those crimes do not qualify for pretrial detention under Aruban law, Mos told reporters. He noted that on Monday, the same judge approved van der Sloot's continuing detention based on the same evidence.

[JustMyOpinion]

I wanted a mother and father to find their daughter. jmo

Me too. Perhaps the RV Persistance will do just that. JMO.

[Chocoholic]

Please link to published source which substantiates this recollection you state as fact. How many people refused interviews with the FBI, what are their names? TIA.

Sorry, no link to my memory. IIRC there were 25 people ALE wanted questioned, out of the 25, only 21 actually cooperated.

[Chocoholic]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html?iref=topnews
The judge reasoned Friday that "the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said.

But people accused of those crimes do not qualify for pretrial detention under Aruban law, Mos told reporters. He noted that on Monday, the same judge approved van der Sloot's continuing detention based on the same evidence.

But but but, I thought they were held on the suspicion of voluntary manslaughter? They most certainly do qualify for being in jail more than 4 yrs. Besides serious grounds of suspicion without all the evidence presented as it would be in a trial, does not a crime make.

[Chocoholic]

You are stating your opinioin as fact with no substantiation, IMO.
They were re-arrested based on evidence, IMO.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html?iref=topnews
The judge reasoned Friday that "the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said.

But people accused of those crimes do not qualify for pretrial detention under Aruban law, Mos told reporters. He noted that on Monday, the same judge approved van der Sloot's continuing detention based on the same evidence.It was the prosecutors statements that there was new evidence. Links (if you read them) have already been posted to show that the attorneys, even JQK believe there is no new evidence.

[ortiga]

Last night I was surprised how depressed JQK was. I remember about a week ago he was so up. I have to wonder did JQK not understand or was he lied to? He was so sure of the evidence, it was strong but now it is nothing.

Remember this? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwG4TvGJdQI)

MOO

Didn't he say that he had been in touch with the prosecutors office regularly, in the days leading up to the re-re arrests?

I think if anything, he was depressed because the mother was finally interrogated. Have we heard for sure if Dave was? Was JQK allowed to object to questions, etc? Does he practice in Aruba? Was he allowed to even be in the room? If so, why?

[JustMyOpinion]

I think if anything, he was depressed because the mother was finally interrogated.


JQK did not say he was "depressed" nor did he say "the mother was finally interrogated". You are projecting, IMO.

[terrysdoor]

JQK did not say he was "depressed" nor did he say "the mother was finally interrogated". You are projecting, IMO.

Why do you think the interrogators wanted to talk to Beth? IMO

[JustMyOpinion]

Why do you think the interrogators wanted to talk to Beth? IMO


I haven't heard Beth ( or her lawyer) say anything about this, so I don't know who spoke with her or what the purpose was.

[fairmaiden]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html?iref=topnews
The judge reasoned Friday that "the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said.

But people accused of those crimes do not qualify for pretrial detention under Aruban law, Mos told reporters. He noted that on Monday, the same judge approved van der Sloot's continuing detention based on the same evidence.

JMO .... I admire your penchant for links, but unfortunately that doesn't change my opinion. Even JQK has indicated to Greta, there is no "new evidence" !!

I keep asking myself .... IF there was this "incriminating evidence" against Joran et al, why weren't they charged this latest go-around ?? Why were they again hauled in to be questioned ??

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Me too. Perhaps the RV Persistance will do just that. JMO.

JMO .... I have a different opinion than you, and HiLife .... but you can rest assured I want Natalee to be found also. I think everyone who has diligently followed this case since the beginning, wants just that.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

~~~~for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," ~~~~

Is it just me, or does anyone else find that wording strange, especially the "covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse" ?? Do they KNOW where the alleged crime was committed, and where the corpse was allegedly disposed of ?? Not to pick apart the words, but you would think if "covering up the traces of a crime committed" occurred .... there essentially is no evidence a crime DID occur .

As I said, perhaps it's me .... but I find that wording strange.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

I haven't heard Beth ( or her lawyer) say anything about this, so I don't know who spoke with her or what the purpose was.

I certainly don't want to put words in your mouth, but .... are you saying you don't believe Beth was interrogated/questioned ?? Would you find it strange IF Beth was interrogated, and if so .... why ??

JMO

[ortiga]

Didn't he say that he had been in touch with the prosecutors office regularly, in the days leading up to the re-re arrests?

I think if anything, he was depressed because the mother was finally interrogated. Have we heard for sure if Dave was? Was JQK allowed to object to questions, etc? Does he practice in Aruba? Was he allowed to even be in the room? If so, why?

JQK did not say he was "depressed" nor did he say "the mother was finally interrogated". You are projecting, IMO.


I am thinking that.

And the rest of my post?

Was Dave interrogated for hours too?

Does JQK practice in Aruba, was he allowed to sit in on Beth's interrogation, if so why? Was he allowed to object to any part of the interrogation?

[ortiga]

I certainly don't want to put words in your mouth, but .... are you saying you don't believe Beth was interrogated/questioned ?? Would you find it strange IF Beth was interrogated, and if so .... why ??

JMO
4-5 hours interrogation, time for lots of questions. And, lots of questions need to be answered by this woman, finally.

I haven't seen any reference to Dave being interrogated, have you?

IMO

[fairmaiden]

JMO .... I admire your penchant for links, but unfortunately that doesn't change my opinion. Even JQK has indicated to Greta, there is no "new evidence" !!

I keep asking myself .... IF there was this "incriminating evidence" against Joran et al, why weren't they charged this latest go-around ?? Why were they again hauled in to be questioned ??

JMO

I apologize for quoting myself ((too late to edit)). But, I noticed that it was the Prosecutors interpreting what the Judge said. It wasn't the Judge talking. Is this the Prosecutor's "interpretation" .... did the Judge say those exact words ??

JMO

[fairmaiden]

4-5 hours interrogation, time for lots of questions. And, lots of questions need to be answered by this woman, finally.

I haven't seen any reference to Dave being interrogated, have you?

IMO

I haven't ortiga .... no.

JMO

[JustMyOpinion]

JMO .... I admire your penchant for links, but unfortunately that doesn't change my opinion. Even JQK has indicated to Greta, there is no "new evidence" !!


JMO


JQK indicated he wasn't shown or told about any new evidence, IMO.
I sincerely doubt JQK has been given a copy of the entire investigative file, JMO
Based on what JQK did say, I think it is highly likely the Prosecutor lacks sufficient evidence to prolong Joran's detention for the next period of 60 days or, to bring a summation to court to charge him, JMO.

[JustMyOpinion]

I certainly don't want to put words in your mouth, but .... are you saying you don't believe Beth was interrogated/questioned ?? Would you find it strange IF Beth was interrogated, and if so .... why ??

JMO

Neither Beth or her attorney have mentioned anything about interrogation.
I refuse to speculate.

[Heyes]

Isn't this the most confounding thing? I now believe that JQK and the world were LIED to by Hans Mos. I had such faith after hearing this Mos go on TV and in interviews and state unequivocally that they had new evidence. There is no getting around the fact these words were said, and said several times.

What is going on here?!? I am floored. I can't imagine how the Holloways feel? JQK was even at a loss for words last night to describe the disappointment and cruelty of such misleading events.

How did Mos get up in front of the world and say they had new evidence - yet in reality had no new evidence??!! He even mentioned in one interview (paraphrased) how they weighed the decision carefully, knowing Aruba's reputation was at stake, before deciding to go ahead with the arrests. No one asked him to do this - and frankly, I don't think anyone was expecting anything to happen regarding the case. Yet Mos decided to drag this out in front of the world......to what end??

WT* is going on?

jmo
HUH, all I can come up with is that aruba gets off on cruelty . From what I've heard out of aruba and this prosecutor, there is no other answer. IMO
IMO
BOYCOTT ARUBA!

[Heyes]

I done tole you all months ago. Dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s. Sure brought beth back for some questioning.

I've been saying for months, nay almost 2 yrs that there is no evidence of a crime. But hey, why start believing me now?

Perhaps bringing beth back to Aruba for questioning on the prosecutors terms is exactly what Hans Mos wanted.

I take it you're not longer doing your happy dance?
Is joran still in jail?

[ortiga]

JQK did not say he was "depressed" nor did he say "the mother was finally interrogated". You are projecting, IMO.

Neither Beth or her attorney have mentioned anything about interrogation.
I refuse to speculate.


You refuse to speculate? Yet you seem to have no qualms about saying something personal and negative about other posters.

[terrysdoor]

HUH, all I can come up with is that aruba gets off on cruelty . From what I've heard out of aruba and this prosecutor, there is no other answer. IMO
IMO
BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Heyes i can not understand why this prosecutor would even have said anything at all i wonder if it will ever be revealed what he thought to be "new evidence" IMO

[Luke Davis]

That's nice thinking outside the box, Luke, but would Mos really "take one for the team" like that and show himself as a liar before the world? What he's done is unspeakably unprofessional and cruel.

jmoI doubt I could find the link now but I remember there being a vote. I forget if it was just the prosecuters office or Arubian officials but it wasn't unanimous. I think some of the things in the Greta special could have pushed some over the edge. MOO

From the Aruban view, it does look like they are being belittled and shamed. MOO

[Luke Davis]

You are stating your opinioin as fact with no substantiation, IMO.
They were re-arrested based on evidence, IMO.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/11/30/aruba.holloway/index.html?iref=topnews
The judge reasoned Friday that "the new evidence, together with the existing evidence in this case, produce serious grounds for the suspicion of some kind of aiding and abetting, of covering up the traces of a crime committed or of the disposing of a corpse," prosecutors said.

But people accused of those crimes do not qualify for pretrial detention under Aruban law, Mos told reporters. He noted that on Monday, the same judge approved van der Sloot's continuing detention based on the same evidence.

It sounds to me that there was not evidence to hold them and it is a matter of harassment. MOO

[Luke Davis]

Didn't he say that he had been in touch with the prosecutors office regularly, in the days leading up to the re-re arrests?

I think if anything, he was depressed because the mother was finally interrogated. Have we heard for sure if Dave was? Was JQK allowed to object to questions, etc? Does he practice in Aruba? Was he allowed to even be in the room? If so, why?

JQK is a civil lawyer. MOO

[ortiga]

JQK is a civil lawyer. MOO


Does that mean he can represent Beth or attend her interrogation in a foreign country?

[Chocoholic]

Neither Beth or her attorney have mentioned anything about interrogation.
I refuse to speculate.

LOL are you sure? The entire "kidnap, gangrape and murder" theory is pure and utter speculation.

[JustMyOpinion]

The entire "kidnap, gangrape and murder" theory is pure and utter speculation.


Local authorities previously detained and prolonged detentions of the last known persons to be seen with a living, Natalee Holloway on reasonable suspicion of the specific alleged crimes of kidnap, rape and murder.
I don't think local judges previously ruled to prolong detentions based on pure and utter speculation, JMO

[Chocoholic]

Local authorities previously detained and prolonged detentions of the last known persons to be seen with a living, Natalee Holloway on reasonable suspicion of the specific alleged crimes of kidnap, rape and murder.
I don't think local judges previously ruled to prolong detentions based on pure and utter speculation, JMO

Based on IMO differing statements by the persons being detained. There is no evidence of a crime as yet.

[JustMyOpinion]

Based on IMO differing statements by the persons being detained. There is no evidence of a crime as yet.

Statements are evidence.
I haven't seen the investigative file or the discovery, so I don't know the exact nature of all of the evidence.
It appears there is some evidence supporting reasonable suspicion that crimes were committed, it remains to be seen if there is enough evidence to charge & convict, IMO.

[Chocoholic]

Statements are evidence.
I haven't seen the investigative file or the discovery, so I don't know the exact nature of all of the evidence.
It appears there is some evidence supporting reasonable suspicion that crimes were committed, it remains to be seen if there is enough evidence to charge & convict, IMO.

Apparently there isn't because otherwise they would all three still be in custody under the suspicion of gangrape, kidnap and murder, but they couldn't make that stick. Not even close.

[Heyes]

Statements are evidence.
I haven't seen the investigative file or the discovery, so I don't know the exact nature of all of the evidence.
It appears there is some evidence supporting reasonable suspicion that crimes were committed, it remains to be seen if there is enough evidence to charge & convict, IMO.
I just heard the prosecutor appealed the kalpoe detention. I know I'm probably behind. Have you heard when the answer is coming? Isn't joran supposed to leave "jail" today? What in your opinion is happening?

[JustMyOpinion]

I just heard the prosecutor appealed the kalpoe detention. I know I'm probably behind. Have you heard when the answer is coming? Isn't joran supposed to leave "jail" today? What in your opinion is happening?

The decision of the higher court is expected today on the prosecutor's appeal of the Kalpoe detention ruling, from what I have read.

I hold little to no hope that this prosecutor has sufficient evidence to charge or convict anyone of alleged crimes, JMO.

I think the case will likely be officially closed prior to Dec 31, JMO

I feel optimistic about the RV Persistence search, if she was placed inside a container and disposed of in deep water, I do think those participating have the knowledge, expertise, and proper equipment to locate her remains.

However, I won't feel a bit surprised if they are hampered or stopped, IF the search location is in "Aruban waters", JMO.

[Heyes]

The decision of the higher court is expected today on the prosecutor's appeal of the Kalpoe detention ruling, from what I have read.

I hold little to no hope that this prosecutor has sufficient evidence to charge or convict anyone of alleged crimes, JMO.

I think the case will likely be officially closed prior to Dec 31, JMO

I feel optimistic about the RV Persistence search, if she was placed inside a container and disposed of in deep water, I do think those participating have the knowledge, expertise, and proper equipment to locate her remains.

However, I won't feel a bit surprised if they are hampered or stopped, IF the search location is in "Aruban waters", JMO.
Thanks, I agree it will be closed on that stupid self imposed closing date. I'm starting to think this was a set up from the get go. I think maybe this prosecutor was just playing us and was planning to wipe his hands clean of this whole mess on Dec, 31.( When it comes to possible death, who does that?) Shoot, I wouldn't be surprised if joran isn't even in jail. lol have we seen pictures? lol
I hope I'm wrong and this prosecutor is sincere but I have my doubts.
I agree with you on the new search efforts.I believe in Dave Holloway and if he believes this is possible and he probably knows every inch of this ship, then I believe it's possible. He is no fool.
IMO

[ortiga]

snipped

However, I won't feel a bit surprised if they are hampered or stopped, IF the search location is in "Aruban waters", JMO.

I wouldn't be surprised that they do not locate any crab pots with remains of Natalee. And, I would not be surprised if the failure is blamed on Aruba, that a story is spread around on the cables about the Persistence not being allowed to search, similar to the unproven stories about ALE and the Aruban government not allowing the FBI to come in with their big boats to help TES search. IIRC that rumor was spread around on this board too, with no proof.

If they do find some remains of Natalee I do hope that the Dutch authorities insist on examining the remains to ensure that they really were under water for a long time and not just a few hours or days.

IMO

[HiLife]

Didn't he say that he had been in touch with the prosecutors office regularly, in the days leading up to the re-re arrests?

I think if anything, he was depressed because the mother was finally interrogated. Have we heard for sure if Dave was? Was JQK allowed to object to questions, etc? Does he practice in Aruba? Was he allowed to even be in the room? If so, why?

I think JQK was disappointed due to a couple little things most humans are born with - empathy and compassion.

jmo

[HiLife]

Me too. Perhaps the RV Persistance will do just that. JMO.

This is the last hope, JMO. I'm also maintaining optimism for this to happen, in the face of all the lousy setbacks that have happened.

jmo

[Heyes]

I wouldn't be surprised that they do not locate any crab pots with remains of Natalee. And, I would not be surprised if the failure is blamed on Aruba, that a story is spread around on the cables about the Persistence not being allowed to search, similar to the unproven stories about ALE and the Aruban government not allowing the FBI to come in with their big boats to help TES search. IIRC that rumor was spread around on this board too, with no proof.

If they do find some remains of Natalee I do hope that the Dutch authorities insist on examining the remains to ensure that they really were under water for a long time and not just a few hours or days.

IMO
I thought I heard that they are staying out in the deeper waters and I thought that after so many miles out, aruba has no jurisdiction. So there will be no need to even discuss the search with aruba let alone get anyones permission for anything. They wouldn't have to give the dutch authorities anything either.
??? I could be wrong, I have no links but I thought that's what I heard.
IMO

[Heyes]

I think JQK was disappointed due to a couple little things most humans are born with - empathy and compassion.

jmo
Well said.
It just breaks my heart what has happened the last couple of weeks to the Holloways, again.

[ortiga]

I thought I heard that they are staying out in the deeper waters and I thought that after so many miles out, aruba has no jurisdiction. So there will be no need to even discuss the search with aruba let alone get anyones permission for anything. They wouldn't have to give the dutch authorities anything either.
??? I could be wrong, I have no links but I thought that's what I heard.
IMO

So, they could just say "we found her" without proving it?

Sadly, that does sound logical.

[ortiga]

Well said.
It just breaks my heart what has happened the last couple of weeks to the Holloways, again.

But then I would say that what happened since Thanksgiving actually happened to JK2 and their families, and nothing happened to Dave and Beth, except Beth was interrogated, finally.

[HiLife]

But then I would say that what happened since Thanksgiving actually happened to JK2 and their families, and nothing happened to Dave and Beth, except Beth was interrogated, finally.

LOL - My memory isn't the best, but did the Pilgrims land on Aruba? :eek:

eta - It would be appreciated if you would stop bringing the other message board rumors about Beth being "interrogated" over here unless you can back it up with proof. TIA.

jmo

[HiLife]

Thanks, I agree it will be closed on that stupid self imposed closing date. I'm starting to think this was a set up from the get go. I think maybe this prosecutor was just playing us and was planning to wipe his hands clean of this whole mess on Dec, 31.( When it comes to possible death, who does that?) Shoot, I wouldn't be surprised if joran isn't even in jail. lol have we seen pictures? lol
I hope I'm wrong and this prosecutor is sincere but I have my doubts.
I agree with you on the new search efforts.I believe in Dave Holloway and if he believes this is possible and he probably knows every inch of this ship, then I believe it's possible. He is no fool.
IMO

Hi Heyes - did you read my post where I gave you credit for nailing this Mos guy? Good instincts. He has shown himself to be a liar extraordinaire and the most unprofessional BSer to come out of Aruba so far. And that is saying a LOT.

jmo

[fairmaiden]

I thought I heard that they are staying out in the deeper waters and I thought that after so many miles out, aruba has no jurisdiction. So there will be no need to even discuss the search with aruba let alone get anyones permission for anything. They wouldn't have to give the dutch authorities anything either.
??? I could be wrong, I have no links but I thought that's what I heard.
IMO

I haven't heard anything like that. If I'm not mistaken though, aren't "International Waters" 12 miles from shore. You think they are searching further out than that ??

JMO

[ortiga]

LOL - My memory isn't the best, but did the Pilgrims land on Aruba? :eek:


I don't know what you mean, but IIRC JK2 were re- re- arrested at Thanksgiving, and I was saying that what happened since Thanksgiving actually happened to them, except for Beth being interrogated, nothing really happened to her and Dave, the actions were against the boys.

[HiLife]

I don't know what you mean, but IIRC JK2 were re- re- arrested at Thanksgiving, and I was saying that what happened since Thanksgiving actually happened to them, except for Beth being interrogated, nothing really happened to her and Dave, the actions were against the boys.

The J2K "Thanksgiving" wasn't ruined because they have no Thanksgiving.

I don't know if you read my eta, but if you plan to keep up the "Beth being interrogated" posts, I would like to see some substantiation. If you have proof, then I stand corrected. If you don't have the substantiation, then please refrain from making this kind of statement.

jmo

[fairmaiden]

Hi Heyes - did you read my post where I gave you credit for nailing this Mos guy? Good instincts. He has shown himself to be a liar extraordinaire and the most unprofessional BSer to come out of Aruba so far. And that is saying a LOT.

jmo

A serious question HiLife. Since you have Hans Mos now pegged as a "liar extradordinaire" .... do you actually believe now there was no "new evidence" ?? How will you feel if, by some remote chance, he is successful with his appeal regarding the Kalpoes' detention ??

JMO

[ortiga]

The J2K "Thanksgiving" wasn't ruined because they have no Thanksgiving.

I don't know if you read my eta, but if you plan to keep up the "Beth being interrogated" posts, I would like to see some substantiation. If you have proof, then I stand corrected. If you don't have the substantiation, then please refrain from making this kind of statement.

jmo

Well, no, I won't refrain from saying it at all. It was said by Kimberley on FOX, it was said by Tito Lacle, it was said on several Aruban newpaper sites. The word used was interrogation, interrogate, etc. I won't provide links because they are already on this same thread.

If you want to change it to some other verb, go ahead.

ETA ....here are 2 people publicly referring to the interrogations:

Kimberley:

Now with the Judge ruling that the Kalpoe brothers can no longer be held in jail, what was one thought of a promise to find out what happened to Natalee Holloway may now seem to be a little less likely.

Joining us from Aruba with the very latest is journalist Tito Lacle. Tito, thanks for joinin me and the latest development that we're hearing is that the Kalpoe brothers are out and what is the new information that aruban authorities interrogated Beth Holloway for 5 hours on Saturday?

Tito:

That's true what you just mentioned. A few minutes ago, actually about an hour and a half ago the latest one of the brothers, Deepak, was released from jail and was picked up by his lawyer and the lawyer for Satish too. His brother Satish was released about an hour earlier from another prison in another City and they're both safe and sound at home and awaiting for the word about what happens to their fate come December 31.

As for the second part, yes Beth Holloway came in this morning about 9 o'clock, about 1/2 hour later than expected in a police station in the city Oranjestadt and after which she was put in a conversation with the prosecuting office, Hans Mos and Dop Kruimel After that was finished both the prosecutors left the office or left the police station and by surprise the interrogators came in and (inaudible) by Dolph Richardson the chief investigator, they started interrogating her which lasted for over 5 hours. She left not very happy and wouldn't say anything on camera. She left the police department about 2:30

The Lineup December 2, 2007

[HiLife]

Well, no, I won't refrain from saying it at all. It was said by Kimberley on FOX, it was said by Tito Lacle, it was said on several Aruban newpaper sites. The word used was interrogation, interrogate, etc. I won't provide links because they are already on this same thread.

If you want to change it to some other verb, go ahead.

ETA ....here are 2 people publicly referring to the interrogations:

<snipped>



Kimberly's information is coming from her guest, TiTo Lacle who is another Aruba spinster. He was not in the room while Beth spoke to the Aruban authorities.

jmo

[HiLife]

A serious question HiLife. Since you have Hans Mos now pegged as a "liar extradordinaire" .... do you actually believe now there was no "new evidence" ?? How will you feel if, by some remote chance, he is successful with his appeal regarding the Kalpoes' detention ??

JMO

FM, I truly do not know what to think. We have Hans Mos repeatedly saying he had new evidence, was confident, etc., etc. Next, we have JQK saying there was NO new evidence.

I always look at who has the most to lose - and in this case, it is the Holloways. The Holloways, more than anyone on the planet, would want there to be new evidence. If JQK says there is no new evidence, then it must be true.

I don't think Mos will be successful in the Kalpoe appeal. I believe it is over.

jmo

[ortiga]

Kimberly's information is coming from her guest, TiTo Lacle who is another Aruba spinster. He was not in the room while Beth spoke to the Aruban authorities.

jmo


It is published information. I'm sorry that you don't like the messenger.

[Heyes]

Hi Heyes - did you read my post where I gave you credit for nailing this Mos guy? Good instincts. He has shown himself to be a liar extraordinaire and the most unprofessional BSer to come out of Aruba so far. And that is saying a LOT.

jmo
Thanks HiLife, I hate the fact that whatever I must have said turned out to be right. I really wanted this guy to be a good guy. I had hope. I know he has gone back to court to have the kalpoes held again, but for what? My question is also who was the judge? Was it one of paulus buddies? Maybe with the appeal going to a higher court it could happen. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
Your description of mos is right on. IMO
aruba really looks ridiculous now. What were they thinking?
IMO

[Heyes]

I haven't heard anything like that. If I'm not mistaken though, aren't "International Waters" 12 miles from shore. You think they are searching further out than that ??

JMO
"International waters": lol thanks fair, I couldn't think of that term for the life of me. lol
I have no idea, I haven't had a chance to read the links about the search, all I have to go on was an interview of Dave Holloway and JMO's posts. Thanks JMO by the by.
IMO

[fairmaiden]

Kimberly's information is coming from her guest, TiTo Lacle who is another Aruba spinster. He was not in the room while Beth spoke to the Aruban authorities.

jmo

HiLife .... This information has certainly come from other than TiTo Lacle. In fact, I would almost put it under the category of "common knowledge" by now. Why would you even be surprised that Beth was interrogated/questioned ?? Isn't that a normal course of events in "missing person" cases? I would have thought "questioning" of the family would be a normal course to take.

This is where I start to wonder if we ARE all interested in the TRUTH about what happened here, unless, of course, it involves Joran et al. That is automatically accepted as the TRUTH by some, even though there appears to be no evidence of any crime committed. Nothing else should even be considered. I get the impression you might think Beth should NOT be questioned. Why is she any different than the mothers of countless others who are "missing" ??

JMO

[fairmaiden]

I thought I heard that they are staying out in the deeper waters and I thought that after so many miles out, aruba has no jurisdiction. So there will be no need to even discuss the search with aruba let alone get anyones permission for anything. They wouldn't have to give the dutch authorities anything either.
??? I could be wrong, I have no links but I thought that's what I heard.
IMO

"International waters": lol thanks fair, I couldn't think of that term for the life of me. lol
I have no idea, I haven't had a chance to read the links about the search, all I have to go on was an interview of Dave Holloway and JMO's posts. Thanks JMO by the by.
IMO

You're welcome. I'm a little confused by the first post I quoted. I'm not sure what you mean by "there will be no need to even discuss the search with Aruba ........ they wouldn't have to give the Dutch authorities anything either".

It would be my impression that, since this case has been under the jurisdiction of the Aruban authorities, and the Dutch authorities, it would have to be discussed with them. .... :shrug:

JMO

[ortiga]

You're welcome. I'm a little confused by the first post I quoted. I'm not sure what you mean by "there will be no need to even discuss the search with Aruba ........ they wouldn't have to give the Dutch authorities anything either".

It would be my impression that, since this case has been under the jurisdiction of the Aruban authorities, and the Dutch authorities, it would have to be discussed with them. .... :shrug:

JMO


Maybe they can just say they found something, not show it to anyone, and convict the boys of murder via the television. That would be good for another couple of books.

IMO

[ortiga]

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/

JUST IN!!
by Greta Van Susteren
NEWS FROM ARUBA: KALPOES WIN APPEAL, PROSECUTOR LOSES

"just wanted to let you know that the appeal of the prosecutor was rejected with the mentioning that the judge is of the opinion that there is not sufficient evidence against the clients so they remain free and this is also a clear message for the prosecutor for his decision of december 31."

[Chocoholic]

Thanks HiLife, I hate the fact that whatever I must have said turned out to be right. I really wanted this guy to be a good guy. I had hope. I know he has gone back to court to have the kalpoes held again, but for what? My question is also who was the judge? Was it one of paulus buddies? Maybe with the appeal going to a higher court it could happen. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
Your description of mos is right on. IMO
aruba really looks ridiculous now. What were they thinking?
IMO

That rather belies your earlier good wishes for Aruba which have been subsequently removed.

[HiLife]

<snipped>

This is where I start to wonder if we ARE all interested in the TRUTH about what happened here, unless, of course, it involves Joran et al.

<snipped>

I get the impression you might think Beth should NOT be questioned. Why is she any different than the mothers of countless others who are "missing" ??

JMO

Funny, because this is where I wonder if we are all interested in Natalee being found.

Your impression is correct. I don't see any reason at all for Beth or Dave to be questioned. They are not suspects. They had nothing to do with Natalee's probable death (isn't this what they think happened - that Natalee is dead?). I can see them speaking with Dave and Beth about anything going on with the case - but certainly never interrogating.

These latest happenings have done nothing but prove Aruba has jerked the Holloway family around, and this latest round is the last straw. This has done nothing but prove to the world that Beth was right. Sadly.

jmo

[Chocoholic]

Funny, because this is where I wonder if we are all interested in Natalee being found.

Your impression is correct. I don't see any reason at all for Beth or Dave to be questioned. They are not suspects. They had nothing to do with Natalee's probable death (isn't this what they think happened - that Natalee is dead?). I can see them speaking with Dave and Beth about anything going on with the case - but certainly never interrogating.

These latest happenings have done nothing but prove Aruba has jerked the Holloway family around, and this latest round is the last straw. This has done nothing but prove to the world that Beth was right. Sadly.

jmo


Wanting Natalee found and persecuting 3 people without evidence do not go hand in hand, ok for some it does, but for most countries it doesn't.

[Heyes]

You're welcome. I'm a little confused by the first post I quoted. I'm not sure what you mean by "there will be no need to even discuss the search with Aruba ........ they wouldn't have to give the Dutch authorities anything either".

It would be my impression that, since this case has been under the jurisdiction of the Aruban authorities, and the Dutch authorities, it would have to be discussed with them. .... :shrug:

JMO
After everything the Holloways have been through regarding aruba. if they found Natalee I would think they would quietly take her home and bury her. I know I wouldn't hand over the body of my daughter to those people. No way. Joran and the kalpoes will walk anyway, why hand over their daughters remains to the Dutch? I'm sure they would bring her home and have their own autopsy done. After that is over it would be time to possibly share the findings with aruba.
I would just think an announcement would be made and aruba would be out of the loop for awhile.
How could they possibly trust any law enforcement in aruba now? How could anybody?
IMO
IMO

[Heyes]

That rather belies your earlier good wishes for Aruba which have been subsequently removed.
Glad YOU saw it though! :patriot:

[Heyes]

Funny, because this is where I wonder if we are all interested in Natalee being found.

Your impression is correct. I don't see any reason at all for Beth or Dave to be questioned. They are not suspects. They had nothing to do with Natalee's probable death (isn't this what they think happened - that Natalee is dead?). I can see them speaking with Dave and Beth about anything going on with the case - but certainly never interrogating.

These latest happenings have done nothing but prove Aruba has jerked the Holloway family around, and this latest round is the last straw. This has done nothing but prove to the world that Beth was right. Sadly.

jmo
Beth was right! IMO
aruba's "laws" won't even allow this to get to trial. Obviously a "FAIR" trial is the only way to clear names. What are they hiding it must be more than J2K???
Must be.
IMO
I just love how you can cover up a crime and hide a body but not held. Wacky!
IMO
Oh Well
BOYCOTT ARUBA!

[Luke Davis]

Herald (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/12/05/news/CB-GEN-Aruba-Missing-Teen.php)

[Luke Davis]

"Notwithstanding expensive and lengthy investigations on her disappearance and on people who could be involved, the file against the suspect does not contain direct indications that Natalee passed away due to a violent crime," the ruling said.

USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-12-05-aruba-missing-teen_N.htm)

[fairmaiden]

"Notwithstanding expensive and lengthy investigations on her disappearance and on people who could be involved, the file against the suspect does not contain direct indications that Natalee passed away due to a violent crime," the ruling said.

USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-12-05-aruba-missing-teen_N.htm)

Well .... thank you, Luke.

That is about the most direct statement that I've seen regarding whether or not a crime has been committed. "The file does not contain direct indications that Natalee passed away due to a violent crime".

If she is dead, could it have been an accident?? I believe that's possible.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Beth was right! IMO
aruba's "laws" won't even allow this to get to trial. Obviously a "FAIR" trial is the only way to clear names. What are they hiding it must be more than J2K???
Must be.
IMO
I just love how you can cover up a crime and hide a body but not held. Wacky!
IMO
Oh Well
BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Heyes .... It is obvious the world over, there has to be "evidence", before you can bring someone to trial. According to what Luke just posted, that evidence doesn't exist. There's no indication she died as a result of a violent crime.

Wishing it were otherwise, doesn't make it so.

JMO

[JustMyOpinion]

Heyes .... It is obvious the world over, there has to be "evidence", before you can bring someone to trial. According to what Luke just posted, that evidence doesn't exist. There's no indication she died as a result of a violent crime.

JMO


It is only obvious to me that the evidence does not exist in the court file. JMO

[JustMyOpinion]

Well .... thank you, Luke.

That is about the most direct statement that I've seen regarding whether or not a crime has been committed. "The file does not contain direct indications that Natalee passed away due to a violent crime".



JMO

The court file doesn't contain direct indications, that doesn't mean a crime has not been committed, IMO. It appears ( thus far) the Prosecutor has not brought sufficient evidence to prove it, JMO.

[Grandad]

"Notwithstanding expensive and lengthy investigations on her disappearance and on people who could be involved, the file against the suspect does not contain direct indications that Natalee passed away due to a violent crime," the ruling said.

USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-12-05-aruba-missing-teen_N.htm)

Well, there go those charges of disposing of a body or destroying evidence.

[Grandad]

The court file doesn't contain direct indications, that doesn't mean a crime has not been committed, IMO.

<snip>

Is that like saying aliens may be walking among us because no one has ever proved they aren't?

Happy dancing has come to an end.

[JustMyOpinion]

Is that like saying aliens may be walking among us because no one has ever proved they aren't?

.

I fail to see what aliens walking among us has to do with the topic of the board.

[Luke Davis]

Van der Sloot's next hearing initially was set for Friday, but was moved up to Thursday in light of the defense request.

CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/12/05/aruba.holloway/)

[Luke Davis]

The new evidence is the same against all three, Mos has said.



CNN

[No Nic]

Aruba/the Dutch have now TWICE told this family their beloved daughter is dead and them OOPS. This is uncalled for and unbelievably cruel. It appears this island is truly run by a bunch of evil,black hearted fools and cowards. If they have never had the evidence that Natalee was dead, they should have kept thier flapping lips shut.

I'm with Heyes.......BOYCOTT ARUBA. These black hearted persons have not done themselves any favors with this cruelty, America will NOT FORGET !! :patriot:

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Aruba/the Dutch have now TWICE told this family their beloved daughter is dead and them OOPS. This is uncalled for and unbelievably cruel. It appears this island is truly run by a bunch of evil,black hearted fools and cowards. If they have never had the evidence that Natalee was dead, they should have kept thier flapping lips shut.

I'm with Heyes.......BOYCOTT ARUBA. These black hearted persons have not done themselves any favors with this cruelty, America will NOT FORGET !! :patriot:

IMO

Makes me wonder what was discussed with Dave and Beth. And why are they so quiet? Did Hans Mos order them to gag themselves?



MOO:hat:

[Luke Davis]

press release
Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba ,

Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba

To all media
From the Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date December 5, 2007
Pages 1

Denial of pretrial detention of S.K. and D.K. in the case of Natalee Holloway upheld by Court of Appeal

Today, December 5th, 2007, the Court of Appeal for the Dutch Antilles and Aruba upheld the decision of the judge of instruction not to order pretrial detention of the brothers S.K. and D.K. Last Monday the Public Prosecutor had lodged an appeal against the judge’s decision of Friday, November 30th. Yesterday the appeal was heard by the Court in camera. The S.K. and D.K. brothers appeared at the hearing, assisted by a number of lawyers. The hearing took two hours. During the hearing the acting Attorney-General presented the objections of the Public Prosecutions office against the denial decision of the judge of instruction. The lawyers of the suspects presented their views. At the closing of the hearing the Court announced the Court’s decision for today.

In its essence the reasoning of the Court reads as follows: notwithstanding an extensive and lengthy investigation the case file against the brothers S.K. and D.K. does not contain direct indications that Natalee Holloway has died as a result of a violent crime against her. Equally the case file does not contain direct indications of the suspects’ involvement in a violent crime against Natalee. Also taking into account the actual phase of the investigation - 2_ years after her being missing – the Court does not see sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspects’ involvement in the crimes for which pre-trial detention has been requested by the Public Prosecutor (which is manslaughter or battery/assault causing death).

This judgment of the Court is the final judgment on the pretrial detention issue of the brothers S.K. and D.K. : the law does not provide for further appeals. In itself the decision does not preclude further investigation and prosecution.

The investigation is being continued by the police under the authority of the Public Prosecutor.

The hearing for the pretrial detention of J.v.d.S. will be held Thursday December 6th..

For more information, you can call: (00 297) 592 8481 (between 08.00 a.m. and 06.00 p.m.; during the weekend between 09.00 and 11.00 a.m.)

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2007/1...cutor-in-aruba/

[HiLife]

press release
Postbus 1163, Oranjestad, Aruba ,

Havenstraat 2
Oranjestad
Aruba

To all media
From the Public Prosecutor’s Office
Date December 5, 2007
Pages 1

Denial of pretrial detention of S.K. and D.K. in the case of Natalee Holloway upheld by Court of Appeal

Today, December 5th, 2007, the Court of Appeal for the Dutch Antilles and Aruba upheld the decision of the judge of instruction not to order pretrial detention of the brothers S.K. and D.K.

the Court does not see sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspects’ involvement in the crimes for which pre-trial detention has been requested by the Public Prosecutor (which is manslaughter or battery/assault causing death).

This judgment of the Court is the final judgment on the pretrial detention issue of the brothers S.K. and D.K. : the law does not provide for further appeals. In itself the decision does not preclude further investigation and prosecution.

The investigation is being continued by the police under the authority of the Public Prosecutor.

The hearing for the pretrial detention of J.v.d.S. will be held Thursday December 6th..

For more information, you can call: (00 297) 592 8481 (between 08.00 a.m. and 06.00 p.m.; during the weekend between 09.00 and 11.00 a.m.)

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2007/1...cutor-in-aruba/

Something I don't understand, Luke. Why the wording..."pre-trial detention?"

Does this mean there will be a trial? Does this mean pre-trial detention is not necessary, but that there will still be a trial? TIA.

jmo

[Luke Davis]

Something I don't understand, Luke. Why the wording..."pre-trial detention?"

Does this mean there will be a trial? Does this mean pre-trial detention is not necessary, but that there will still be a trial? TIA.

jmo

Good question. Maybe there will be some spin soon. I guess Greta will cover it.


MOO

[Grandad]

I fail to see what aliens walking among us has to do with the topic of the board.

Yes, indeed, you fail to see.

[HiLife]

Makes me wonder what was discussed with Dave and Beth. And why are they so quiet? Did Hans Mos order them to gag themselves?

MOO:hat:

I don't think anyone gagged Dave or Beth.....I think they are just gagging over what's happened.

[Grandad]

Something I don't understand, Luke. Why the wording..."pre-trial detention?"

Does this mean there will be a trial? Does this mean pre-trial detention is not necessary, but that there will still be a trial? TIA.

jmo


As has been explained hundreds of times, the suspects were never arrested. They were detained. The Dutch legal term is "pre-trial detention", probably because they were detained prior to any trial having taken place.

[JustMyOpinion]

As has been explained hundreds of times, the suspects were never arrested. They were detained. The Dutch legal term is "pre-trial detention", probably because they were detained prior to any trial having taken place.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/arrested
ar·rest (-rst)
v. ar·rest·ed, ar·rest·ing, ar·rests
v.tr.
1. To stop; check: a brake that automatically arrests motion; arrested the growth of the tumor.
2. To seize and hold under the authority of law.
3. To capture and hold briefly (the attention, for example); engage.
v.intr.
To undergo cardiac arrest: The patient arrested en route to the hospital.
n.
1.
a. The act of detaining in legal custody: the arrest of a criminal suspect.
b. The state of being so detained: a criminal under arrest.
2. A device for stopping motion, especially of a moving part.
3. The act of stopping or the condition of being stopped.

[fairmaiden]

It is only obvious to me that the evidence does not exist in the court file. JMO

I'm really not being obtuse here, JMO. If the "evidence doesn't exist in the court file", where does it exist ??

JMO

[Chocoholic]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/arrested
ar·rest (-rst)
v. ar·rest·ed, ar·rest·ing, ar·rests
v.tr.
1. To stop; check: a brake that automatically arrests motion; arrested the growth of the tumor.
2. To seize and hold under the authority of law.
3. To capture and hold briefly (the attention, for example); engage.
v.intr.
To undergo cardiac arrest: The patient arrested en route to the hospital.
n.
1.
a. The act of detaining in legal custody: the arrest of a criminal suspect.
b. The state of being so detained: a criminal under arrest.
2. A device for stopping motion, especially of a moving part.
3. The act of stopping or the condition of being stopped.

I have a feeling that Grandad knows what pre-trial detention means, I believe it was hilife who needed assistance with understanding.

[JustMyOpinion]

I'm really not being obtuse here, JMO. If the "evidence doesn't exist in the court file", where does it exist ??

JMO


In the investigatorial file, IMO. It isn't in the court file until it is brought forward to the court, IMO. ( and, therefore, not subject to discovery) IMO.

[Grandad]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/arrested
ar·rest (-rst)
v. ar·rest·ed, ar·rest·ing, ar·rests
v.tr.
1. To stop; check: a brake that automatically arrests motion; arrested the growth of the tumor.
2. To seize and hold under the authority of law.
3. To capture and hold briefly (the attention, for example); engage.
v.intr.
To undergo cardiac arrest: The patient arrested en route to the hospital.
n.
1.
a. The act of detaining in legal custody: the arrest of a criminal suspect.
b. The state of being so detained: a criminal under arrest.
2. A device for stopping motion, especially of a moving part.
3. The act of stopping or the condition of being stopped.


Do you have a link to a Dutch legal dictionary?

Please provide one.

Thank you.

[Grandad]

I'm really not being obtuse here, JMO. If the "evidence doesn't exist in the court file", where does it exist ??

JMO

Only in some people's minds, FM, only in the minds of those who have no interest in justice.

[No Nic]

Only in some people's minds, FM, only in the minds of those who have no interest in justice.


Are you referring to Mr. Mos? After all, he is the one that announced to the world that he had new evidence.

If there is indeed no new evidence, I guess I would agree with you on that, Mr. Moss has no interest in justice, after all he is Dutch and he now resides in Aruba. No surprise there. IMO, Aruba and Dutch should never be used in the same sentence with justice, just doesn't compute. Cruel, black hearted and inhumane....those words can (and should) be used in the same sentence with Aruba and Dutch.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

In the investigatorial file, IMO. It isn't in the court file until it is brought forward to the court, IMO. ( and, therefore, not subject to discovery) IMO.Maybe in a few years, the three will be detained again, and Hans Mos or a new prosecuter, will present his new evidence. This just is silly.

MOO

[Grandad]

Are you referring to Mr. Mos? After all, he is the one that announced to the world that he had new evidence.

If there is indeed no new evidence, I guess I would agree with you on that, Mr. Moss has no interest in justice, after all he is Dutch and he now resides in Aruba. No surprise there. IMO, Aruba and Dutch should never be used in the same sentence with justice, just doesn't compute. Cruel, black hearted and inhumane....those words can (and should) be used in the same sentence with Aruba and Dutch.

IMOI'm sure you, and everyone on this board knows to whom I was referring.

Poor Mos had a job to do, and he did it the best way he knew. We may someday learn he didn't to too bad a job, after all.

Personally, what I think is cruel, black hearted and inhumane is sending a naive, inexperienced teen on an all you can drink junket. It really was destined to end badly.

[fairmaiden]

Maybe in a few years, the three will be detained again, and Hans Mos or a new prosecuter, will present his new evidence. This just is silly.

MOO

I tend to agree with you Luke. It seems apparent to me .... someone, or indeed some, would have been charged a long time ago, if there ever was any evidence of a crime. To me, the ruling is clear .... there is no indication of a violent crime. I don't know how it could be clearer.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Are you referring to Mr. Mos? After all, he is the one that announced to the world that he had new evidence.

If there is indeed no new evidence, I guess I would agree with you on that, Mr. Moss has no interest in justice, after all he is Dutch and he now resides in Aruba. No surprise there. IMO, Aruba and Dutch should never be used in the same sentence with justice, just doesn't compute. Cruel, black hearted and inhumane....those words can (and should) be used in the same sentence with Aruba and Dutch.

IMO

But there were some, myself included, who didn't believe that, No Nic. As I said last week sometime .... I believe Mos' "evidence" Natalee is no longer alive, is because she hasn't been seen since she disappeared!!

Some believe she hasn't been seen, because she left voluntarily. Some believe she may indeed be dead, but that she died accidentally. It's becoming clearer and clearer to me, there is no evidence of a violent crime.

JMO

[HiLife]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/arrested
ar·rest (-rst)
v. ar·rest·ed, ar·rest·ing, ar·rests
v.tr.
1. To stop; check: a brake that automatically arrests motion; arrested the growth of the tumor.
2. To seize and hold under the authority of law.
3. To capture and hold briefly (the attention, for example); engage.
v.intr.
To undergo cardiac arrest: The patient arrested en route to the hospital.
n.
1.
a. The act of detaining in legal custody: the arrest of a criminal suspect.
b. The state of being so detained: a criminal under arrest.
2. A device for stopping motion, especially of a moving part.
3. The act of stopping or the condition of being stopped.

I'm glad you posted this, JMO. I don't understand the parsing of the word "arrest." It has several different meanings, yet all meaning the same thing.

jmo

[HiLife]

<snipped>

Some believe she hasn't been seen, because she left voluntarily. Some believe she may indeed be dead, but that she died accidentally. It's becoming clearer and clearer to me, there is no evidence of a violent crime.

JMO

I see you saying several times that you believe she died accidentally. If so, then what happened to her body, FM? How could it be this well hidden? She couldn't up and do this herself. Somebody did it.

jmo

[fairmaiden]

I see you saying several times that you believe she died accidentally. If so, then what happened to her body, FM? How could it be this well hidden? She couldn't up and do this herself. Somebody did it.

jmo

HiLife .... I believe it was ortiga who posted a link from the gentleman from Equusearch ((IIRC)), who said her body could have floated out to sea. It's possible she might have gone into the water that night, and just drowned. It was posted a while ago, but I remember it being discussed.

I don't know what happened HiLife. You are intent on believing someone harmed her. There apparently isn't any evidence of that.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Today, 06:13 PM
Freshwater
Administrator Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,413



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This is an emotional time for people. We all will have to forgive those that come here to say negative things about our community. They are not being told what is happening to their community. They are guessing and I have no doubt worrying. I have answered every question about CL that has been directly asked of me and I will continue to do so.
It is no surprise that Crime Library is ending on Dec 31 - It is in numerous press releases. Many of you also know that in the new year I will have a new home and every single member here is welcome with open arms. I am moving on to a place where the site itself is being built to serve our community and it is a site that will be built by and for the members.

I will be the admin for the new and improved discussion forums (Vbulletin format - so you all will have no excuses not to join and post!) at 320sycamore.com. It will be the same format we all know here but better. Members will be able to blog on the boards. We will have live Chats with crime experts - Plus a Feshwater open chat session for people to ask me questions directly about site admin issues. We will have a town council that will review the site rules. An member will be able to submit a referendum for consideration. Yes, YOU will have a vote in what rules govern the comunity and have the ability to seek review. We will have member monitors, case updaters, and discussion leaders.

What is really unique is that when you arrive you will see a picture of a small town mainstreet and there you will be able to roll over different locations on mainstreet and be taken to them. There will be the town Hall where you can make a complaint or submit a proposal. We will have the Granville Social Club so members can go hang out! I hope the hospitality members here and others will join us there for morning coffee and talk. Yes and Jeeves will be there too as will coffee mugs and slippers (eventually for sale on line) We will have a town paper (The GB Gazette)where you will see familiar people writing stories you care about. The only censor will be you and what you choose to read or pass over. You can got to Talk of the Town CoffeeHouse and enter the discussion forums to talk about your cases. We will launch the first ever crime wiki were we can build a library of content about issues and cases we care about. A place were our hard work and research becomes a resource and cannot go poof on a whim. We will highlight cases that need your talented skills to help a family in need of answers. We will be addressing timely issues that impact our lives.

In January the site will be filled with content about Stalking from cyber stalking to the myths and realities about it to my thoughts on Megan Meir. January is national stalking awareness month. Oh and so much more. Please Join me after the new year. 320Sycamore.com launches on 1/1/08. I hope to see you all there. Membership is free.

Happy Holidays

Freshwater
__________________

[Grandad]

HiLife .... I believe it was ortiga who posted a link from the gentleman from Equusearch ((IIRC)), who said her body could have floated out to sea. It's possible she might have gone into the water that night, and just drowned. It was posted a while ago, but I remember it being discussed.

I don't know what happened HiLife. You are intent on believing someone harmed her. There apparently isn't any evidence of that.

JMO

What bothers me is that some people would prefer that Natalee was kidnapped, raped and murdered, rather than that she might have died peacefully, or still be alive.

[Chocoholic]

It is published information. I'm sorry that you don't like the messenger.

IMO it's the same we've heard for 2.5 yrs. Anybody who doesn't believe beth or who appears not to wish to persecute the suspects are spinsters and liars.

Unfortunately neither on Aruba nor in the US people cannot be be charged without evidence, no matter what the mother of the woman who IMO decided to run away, touts.

[Chocoholic]

I'm glad you posted this, JMO. I don't understand the parsing of the word "arrest." It has several different meanings, yet all meaning the same thing.

jmo

Didn't you ask about pre-trial detainment? It means that the persons of interest have not been charged with a crime and are being held while a case is being investigated, unlike which happens in the US.

But then that has been explained so many times, I'm sure you knew that. ;)

[Chocoholic]

What bothers me is that some people would prefer that Natalee was kidnapped, raped and murdered, rather than that she might have died peacefully, or still be alive.

Including her mother, who stated that she was dead on day 10 of the investigation and IIRC demanded a death certificate and that a thorough post mortem could only be performed by US authorities.

No links to my memories.

[HiLife]

What bothers me is that some people would prefer that Natalee was kidnapped, raped and murdered, rather than that she might have died peacefully, or still be alive.

Spare me.

[Luke Davis]

I see you saying several times that you believe she died accidentally. If so, then what happened to her body, FM? How could it be this well hidden? She couldn't up and do this herself. Somebody did it.

jmoGeoffrey van Cromvoirt


MOO

[Luke Davis]

Van Cromvoirt worked for a private security company that patrols beaches outside Aruba's hotels. Holloway was last seen leaving an Aruba bar with van der Sloot and Surinamese brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, who were held for 25 days before being released. Van der Sloot has said he left Holloway on a beach near her hotel after they had kissed.

Van Cromvoirt's family runs the security company, according to Tacopina. The company provides security for the Aruban government and private companies, including the Holiday Inn, where Holloway was staying, he said. The company installed the security camera and patrols the beach. Van Cromvoirt was part of the team that patrolled the Holiday Inn's beach in the early hours of the morning, according to Tacopina.



ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1849859)

I know all roads lead back to J2K but then what? The road ends. I have always thought Steve Croes was protecting GVC when he backed up J2K.


MOO

[Luke Davis]

Man presumed dead emerges after 5 years

who knows (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071205/ap_on_re_eu/britain_missing_man)

I know, I know. He's a man, it's UK not Aruba. But stuff happens. I wonder if the last people seen with him were worried?


MOO

[No Nic]

Including her mother, who stated that she was dead on day 10 of the investigation and IIRC demanded a death certificate and that a thorough post mortem could only be performed by US authorities.

No links to my memories.

That is a lie. You have been putting that on this board since you started posting. You have been asked each and every time to prove it, provide a link. You have ignored each and every request and not provided one as required by TOS. That in itself is proof enough that it is a lie and Beth did not ask for any such thing. Why do you persist in typing such lies?

imo

[Heyes]

That is a lie. You have been putting that on this board since you started posting. You have been asked each and every time to prove it, provide a link. You have ignored each and every request and not provided one as required by TOS. That in itself is proof enough that it is a lie and Beth did not ask for any such thing. Why do you persist in typing such lies?

imo

I'll give you one guess......:patriot:
This whole not enough evidence thing is so utterly ridiculous. We all know why there is not enough evidence. The ALE bungled the initial investigation. joran and the kalpoes obstructed justice. DUH!
IMO. they have the right guys and if this thing would have been done right from the beginning we would be half way through a trial now. What were they thinking?
BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!
IMO

[Heyes]

ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1849859)

I know all roads lead back to J2K but then what? The road ends. I have always thought Steve Croes was protecting GVC when he backed up J2K.


MOO
Just go back to the beginning luke. All roads do lead to j2k and paulus. IMO
There was no reason to come up with such an elaborate story about the SG's and the hotel, unless those 4 knew that Natalee wouldn't show up at any given moment. If they had left her on the beach they would never act out this lie except they knew Natalee couldn't show up and blow their cover story. There, IMO is no other explanation. Look at the meetings around the pool. The sg's statement, deepak and satish's statements all about paulus giving them this strange advice. What other explanations could there possibly be. Natalee did not just swim out to sea. IMO
Those suspects knew she couldn't turn back up and contradict their story.IMO

[Grandad]

Spare me.

From what? The truth?

[JustMyOpinion]

Maybe in a few years, the three will be detained again, and Hans Mos or a new prosecuter, will present his new evidence. This just is silly.

MOO

Or, maybe Hans Mos will go forward with a summation to court prior to Dec 31
Or, maybe the RV Persistence will locate Natalee's remains.
I don't think investigating a cold case, searching for new evidence, analyzing old evidence, interrogating suspects, or pursuing justice is "silly". JMO.

[JustMyOpinion]

ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1849859)

I know all roads lead back to J2K but then what? The road ends.
MOO


I disagree. It appears to me there are legal grounds to suspect the 2Ks disposed of a body, hid traces of evidence, and there are legal grounds to suspect JvdS killed Natalee, IMO. And, I truly doubt a reported 25 volunteers are poised to engage in a deep water search for Natalee's remains once the Persistence arrives in Aruba based on a whim, JMO.

[HiLife]

Just go back to the beginning luke. All roads do lead to j2k and paulus. IMO
There was no reason to come up with such an elaborate story about the SG's and the hotel,unless those 4 knew that Natalee wouldn't show up at any given moment. If they had left her on the beach they would never act out this lie except they knew Natalee couldn't show up and blow their cover story. There, IMO is no other explanation. Look at the meetings around the pool. The sg's statement, deepak and satish's statements all about paulus giving them this strange advice. What other explanations could there possibly be. Natalee did not just swim out to sea. IMO

Those suspects knew she couldn't turn back up and contradict their story.IMO
This really brings it home, Heyes.

This is right there with another thought you've always had, with which I completely agree - about how those guys came in right before C&C's closing with one purpose in mind.

While we don't have a video, we all have logic and experience, and can see intent and purpose here. So many stories. Why? They knew Natalee would not show up to expose their lies. Yet the lies were exposed anyway.

If this were some kind of "accident," something , anything of Natalee's would have shown up. When it is an "accident," the person does not disappear without a trace.

jmo

[HiLife]

I disagree. It appears to me there are legal grounds to suspect the 2Ks disposed of a body, hid traces of evidence, and there are legal grounds to suspect JvdS killed Natalee, IMO. And, I truly doubt a reported 25 volunteers are poised to engage in a deep water search for Natalee's remains once the Persistence arrives in Aruba based on a whim, JMO.

From what I've read, the Persistence should be there by today! Sending up prayers for its success in finding Natalee.

jmo

[Chocoholic]

Just go back to the beginning luke. All roads do lead to j2k and paulus. IMO
There was no reason to come up with such an elaborate story about the SG's and the hotel, unless those 4 knew that Natalee wouldn't show up at any given moment. If they had left her on the beach they would never act out this lie except they knew Natalee couldn't show up and blow their cover story. There, IMO is no other explanation. Look at the meetings around the pool. The sg's statement, deepak and satish's statements all about paulus giving them this strange advice. What other explanations could there possibly be. Natalee did not just swim out to sea. IMO
Those suspects knew she couldn't turn back up and contradict their story.IMO

So glad you brought it up, ask Boody Naar:

Boody Naar was one of the—was the most critical witness in having those two security guards arrested

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12205086/

[Chocoholic]

I disagree. It appears to me there are legal grounds to suspect the 2Ks disposed of a body, hid traces of evidence, and there are legal grounds to suspect JvdS killed Natalee, IMO. And, I truly doubt a reported 25 volunteers are poised to engage in a deep water search for Natalee's remains once the Persistence arrives in Aruba based on a whim, JMO.

The please forward your legel expertise to pursue laying charges and going to trial to the prosecutor because so far the judges disagree with you.

[HiLife]

ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1849859)

I know all roads lead back to J2K but then what? The road ends. I have always thought Steve Croes was protecting GVC when he backed up J2K.

MOO

See, this is what turns me inside out about this, Luke. How could they let all those suspects "off the hook" so easily. Or did they? Why have the other suspects never been mentioned?

I would also have expected (like I had of the Dutch in the beginning of this year - and they didn't) Mos to go back and re-question other suspects.

I agree with JMO, there must be something there - how could Mos go before the world and state everything he has (see JMO's post) - so much - can he he that big of a liar?

jmo

[Chocoholic]

See, this is what turns me inside out about this, Luke. How could they let all those suspects "off the hook" so easily. Or did they? Why have the other suspects never been mentioned?

I would also have expected (like I had of the Dutch in the beginning of this year - and they didn't) Mos to go back and re-question other suspects.

I agree with JMO, there must be something there - how could Mos go before the world and state everything he has (see JMO's post) - so much - can he he that big of a liar?

jmo

Liar? For 2.5 yrs we've heard from beth that it was J2K who were crucial in getting the SGs arrested, above link shows that this isn't the case. Let's ask those who started the family investigation why they continue to lie.

[HiLife]

So glad you brought it up, ask Boody Naar:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12205086/

There are dozens of links about why the SGs were arrested. Many saying the (J2K) men fingered the SGs. This is re-re-re-re-re-re X1000 rehash.

jmo

[Chocoholic]

There are dozens of links about why the SGs were arrested. Many saying the (J2K) men fingered the SGs. This is re-re-re-re-re-re X1000 rehash.

jmo

Repeating a lie doesn't make it the truth, I would think that you would be one of the first to understand that.

[fairmaiden]

There are dozens of links about why the SGs were arrested. Many saying the (J2K) men fingered the SGs. This is re-re-re-re-re-re X1000 rehash.

jmo

You know, HiLife .... Much of what we ((all of us)) discuss on this thread now IS re-hash.

We ((all of us)) know that Natalee left C&C's with Joran et al. We (all of us)) basically know nothing else about what happened AFTER that. When you come right down to the nitty-gritty, we ((all of us)) have speculated, opined about what might have happened.

I believe the ruling yesterday very clearly stated .... there is no indication of a violent crime!! As I mentioned to No Nic last night .... I believe, Mos' "evidence" Natalee is no longer alive, was because she hasn't surfaced !!
That reminds me of the questions sometimes asked on the board .... "Does anyone have proof Natalee is still alive?". I always found that something like trying to prove a negative. One has to PROVE she is DEAD, and not assuming that just because no one has SEEN her since she disappeared.

JMO

[JustMyOpinion]

We ((all of us)) know that Natalee left C&C's with Joran et al. We (all of us)) basically know nothing else about what happened AFTER that.
JMO


Please do not presume to speak for me.
There are facts and circumstances established as to many "happenings" after the vehicle pulled away from C&C.

[HiLife]

Repeating a lie doesn't make it the truth, I would think that you would be one of the first to understand that.

You're kidding, right? :rolleyes:

Ever come up with that link saying "Beth wanted the Death Certificate in 10 days?" You know, the unsubstantiated rumor you keep posting on this board (even as recently as last night), yet have never had a link to prove? You know, the one you keep stating as Fact when it is not?

jmo

[Chocoholic]

Please do not presume to speak for me.
There are facts and circumstances established as to many "happenings" after the vehicle pulled away from C&C.

FM didn't speak in detail, but if you have something to add to the discussion please do.

Are you not rehashing what has been discussed before or are you new to the Natalee Holloway disappearance case?

Do you not accept the information that Natalee left with J2K from C&C's?

Do you know specifically what happened after that?

Are you saying that you have not speculated?

I don't see why it is so difficult to agree with FM's post.

[Chocoholic]

Joran released.

It's on other message boards.

Details, no doubt, to follow later on today.

[fairmaiden]

Please do not presume to speak for me.
There are facts and circumstances established as to many "happenings" after the vehicle pulled away from C&C.

JMO .... Do YOU know what happened to Natalee ??

JMO

[HiLife]

I disagree. It appears to me there are legal grounds to suspect the 2Ks disposed of a body, hid traces of evidence, and there are legal grounds to suspect JvdS killed Natalee, IMO. And, I truly doubt a reported 25 volunteers are poised to engage in a deep water search for Natalee's remains once the Persistence arrives in Aruba based on a whim, JMO.

You know, HiLife .... Much of what we ((all of us)) discuss on this thread now IS re-hash.

We ((all of us)) know that Natalee left C&C's with Joran et al. We (all of us)) basically know nothing else about what happened AFTER that. When you come right down to the nitty-gritty, we ((all of us)) have speculated, opined about what might have happened.

I believe the ruling yesterday very clearly stated .... there is no indication of a violent crime!! As I mentioned to No Nic last night .... I believe, Mos' "evidence" Natalee is no longer alive, was because she hasn't surfaced !!
That reminds me of the questions sometimes asked on the board .... "Does anyone have proof Natalee is still alive?". I always found that something like trying to prove a negative. One has to PROVE she is DEAD, and not assuming that just because no one has SEEN her since she disappeared.

JMO

I disagree. Nothing is clear. Much less that there wasn't a violent crime. This investigation has been an incompetent sham.

I do not need "proof" of the body to know J2K are covering up something BIG. There is a MOUNTAIN of Circumstantial Evidence, of which much less has put many others away for a long time.

There is no other credible explanation for their lies or the fact that ALE keeps focusing on them and them alone.

jmo

[Luke Davis]

Just go back to the beginning luke. All roads do lead to j2k and paulus. IMO
There was no reason to come up with such an elaborate story about the SG's and the hotel, unless those 4 knew that Natalee wouldn't show up at any given moment. If they had left her on the beach they would never act out this lie except they knew Natalee couldn't show up and blow their cover story. There, IMO is no other explanation. Look at the meetings around the pool. The sg's statement, deepak and satish's statements all about paulus giving them this strange advice. What other explanations could there possibly be. Natalee did not just swim out to sea. IMO
Those suspects knew she couldn't turn back up and contradict their story.IMO

GVC could have disposed of Natalee's body.

MOO

[JustMyOpinion]

JMO .... Do YOU know what happened to Natalee ??

JMO

Nope.

[No Nic]

For Natalee Ann Holloway :rose:

For Willard "Bud" Larson :rose:

Forever stuck one "One Hell-Hole Island". :flamemad:

[fairmaiden]

FM didn't speak in detail, but if you have something to add to the discussion please do.

Are you not rehashing what has been discussed before or are you new to the Natalee Holloway disappearance case?

Do you not accept the information that Natalee left with J2K from C&C's?

Do you know specifically what happened after that?

Are you saying that you have not speculated?

I don't see why it is so difficult to agree with FM's post.

Choco .... I must admit, I didn't think it would be difficult to agree either .... EXCEPT to create an issue.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

I disagree. Nothing is clear. Much less that there wasn't a violent crime. This investigation has been an incompetent sham.

I do not need "proof" of the body to know J2K are covering up something BIG. There is a MOUNTAIN of Circumstantial Evidence, of which much less has put many others away for a long time.

There is no other credible explanation for their lies or the fact that ALE keeps focusing on them and them alone.

jmo

Respectfully, HiLife .... You and I agree to disagree.

JMO

[Heyes]

So glad you brought it up, ask Boody Naar:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12205086/
From your link

LOL
Let me tell you something. Boody Naar is not only a self-proclaimed drug dealer, he uses drugs every day. Every time I interviewed him, he was high on cocaine or some other drug. Boody Naar is not to be believed, I can tell you that.

LOL LOL LOL
oh yeah dompigs brother in law, nothing suspicious there, lol lol lol lol

[terrysdoor]

Please do not presume to speak for me.
There are facts and circumstances established as to many "happenings" after the vehicle pulled away from C&C.

did i miss the "facts" to me the only fact is she got in the car with J2K the rest has been told by many people but it is never the same IMO

[Heyes]

Joran released.

It's on other message boards.

Details, no doubt, to follow later on today.


DUH!
:rolleyes:
like we didn't see that coming.

BOYCOTT ARUBA!

[Luke Davis]

Joran released.

It's on other message boards.

Details, no doubt, to follow later on today.I would say Joe T. is more believeable than Hans M. if that is the case. Joe told Greta Joran would be free by Thursday. Hans talks the talk and Joe walks the walk.



:patriot:

[Chocoholic]

From your link

LOL
Let me tell you something. Boody Naar is not only a self-proclaimed drug dealer, he uses drugs every day. Every time I interviewed him, he was high on cocaine or some other drug. Boody Naar is not to be believed, I can tell you that.

LOL LOL LOL
oh yeah dompigs brother in law, nothing suspicious there, lol lol lol lol

Apparently the judge finds him believable enough to keep one of them on the list of "suspect" status :D

[Chocoholic]

DUH!
:rolleyes:
like we didn't see that coming.

BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Oh I dunno were you and your friends doing backflips and happy dances only a short 2 weeks ago? Doesn't seem like you saw it coming to me.

[HiLife]

Oh I dunno were you and your friends doing backflips and happy dances only a short 2 weeks ago? Doesn't seem like you saw it coming to me.

We only saw it coming when JQK uncovered Hans Mos for the liar he turned out to be. No surprises here after that.

jmo

[HiLife]

I would say Joe T. is more believeable than Hans M. if that is the case. Joe told Greta Joran would be free by Thursday. Hans talks the talk and Joe walks the walk.

:patriot:

After what we've seen unfold this week, sounds like anyone would be more believable than Hans Mos.

jmo

[HiLife]

DUH!
:rolleyes:
like we didn't see that coming.

BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Yeah. My first thought was: surprise, surprise. :rolleyes:

[Chocoholic]

After what we've seen unfold this week, sounds like anyone would be more believable than Hans Mos.

jmo

It seems that the only person who is believable in your eyes is beth and she tops the list as far as liars is concerned.

[terrysdoor]

After what we've seen unfold this week, sounds like anyone would be more believable than Hans Mos.

jmo

i can not understand why this man done and said what he said has he even mentioned what he considered to be "new evidence" IMO

[HiLife]

i can not understand why this man done and said what he said has he even mentioned what he considered to be "new evidence" IMO
I find it absolutely baffling, terry. HOW could he appear on TV telling such blatant lies? I wish JQK had told Greta what Mos had considered "new evidence." If Mos thought he'd make the appearance of trying to resolve this case, he is sadly mistaken. He has only managed to make himself, and Aruba, by natural extension - worse - much worse.

My question has been, and Luke has mentioned something about this - didn't Mos have to "feel" out what others in the judiciary thought about bringing this case up with his "new evidence?" Didn't he have to get some kind of "backing" in order to bring about this ordeal again? Didn't he have to consult with anyone before effecting the re-arrests?

This whole ordeal was for nothing.

jmo

[Heyes]

Apparently the judge finds him believable enough to keep one of them on the list of "suspect" status :D

Of course a judge in aruba finds dompigs drug addicted, beach dwelling, brother in law credible!
LOL
And some wonder why the case can't be solved.

IMO

[Heyes]

Oh I dunno were you and your friends doing backflips and happy dances only a short 2 weeks ago? Doesn't seem like you saw it coming to me.
I was doing a happy dance, until I realized that aruba was once again pulling a sham and putting Natalee's family through more hell. At that point it was just a matter of time before joran was released.
Did they really think people around the world would buy this bs?
IMO
BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!

[Heyes]

I am now hearing that joran HAS NOT yet been released!
And the confusion goes on out of aruba. Big surprise there.
Maybe they prefer the dead of night to release him. Late, late at night. cloak of darkness and all LMAO!

[Chocoholic]

I am now hearing that joran HAS NOT yet been released!
And the confusion goes on out of aruba. Big surprise there.
Maybe they prefer the dead of night to release him. Late, late at night. cloak of darkness and all LMAO!

Tomorrow morning, just stop being impatient.

[Heyes]

Tomorrow morning, just stop being impatient.
======================================
Originally Posted by Chocoholic
Joran released.

It's on other message boards.

Details, no doubt, to follow later on today.

------------------------------------------------------
LMAO~
I'm impatient?

[HiLife]

======================================
Originally Posted by Chocoholic
Joran released.

It's on other message boards.

Details, no doubt, to follow later on today.

------------------------------------------------------
LMAO~
I'm impatient?

Oh, where is that <rolling laughing Santa> icon when I need it!!!!!! LMBO!!!!!!!!!

[Luke Davis]

Oh, where is that <rolling laughing Santa> icon when I need it!!!!!! LMBO!!!!!!!!!

http://i12.tinypic.com/29bnd4y.gifhttp://i12.tinypic.com/29bnd4y.gifhttp://i12.tinypic.com/29bnd4y.gifhttp://i12.tinypic.com/29bnd4y.gifhttp://i12.tinypic.com/29bnd4y.gifhttp://i12.tinypic.com/29bnd4y.gif:hat:

[Luke Davis]

what the heck (http://www.pr-inside.com/aruba-delays-announcing-judge-s-decision-r336427.htm)

[Grandad]

From your link

LOL
Let me tell you something. Boody Naar is not only a self-proclaimed drug dealer, he uses drugs every day. Every time I interviewed him, he was high on cocaine or some other drug. Boody Naar is not to be believed, I can tell you that.

LOL LOL LOL
oh yeah dompigs brother in law, nothing suspicious there, lol lol lol lol

You forgot to mention the source of this comment, none other than the less than credible stooge of Jossy Mansur, Art Wood.

This leads me to say something I have never said before. Lol lol lol lol.

[HiLife]

what the heck (http://www.pr-inside.com/aruba-delays-announcing-judge-s-decision-r336427.htm)

I wonder if "public outrage" has made them think again about releasing Joran? This is nothing short of a circus. :mad:

(thanks for the rolling Santas, Luke!)

[Grandad]

I wonder if "public outrage" has made them think again about releasing Joran? This is nothing short of a circus. :mad:

(thanks for the rolling Santas, Luke!)


Yeah, I'll bet the judge was reading this board and is scared of the four or five of you who want to see an innocent person incarcerated, to please a grieving fund raiser.

[Luke Davis]

I wonder if "public outrage" has made them think again about releasing Joran? This is nothing short of a circus. :mad:

(thanks for the rolling Santas, Luke!)
I doubt it but I do remember a delayed announcement in Los Angeles years ago, then the riots over a decision.

[Luke Davis]

Yeah, I'll bet the judge was reading this board and is scared of the four or five of you who want to see an innocent person incarcerated, to please a grieving fund raiser.
Do you know if this is an unusual thing to do? It is strange to me but not unheard of in the USA.

[HiLife]

Yeah, I'll bet the judge was reading this board and is scared of the four or five of you who want to see an innocent person incarcerated, to please a grieving fund raiser.

You always like to make it personal. You're so busy trying to twist my words. There are many, many people outside this board who support the quest to find Natalee's murderer and who support Beth Holloway whether you like her or not. The main suspect is Joran. This has been a circus. I just wonder if Aruba hasn't been flooded with complaints (by some influential people).

jmo

[HiLife]

I doubt it but I do remember a delayed announcement in Los Angeles years ago, then the riots over a decision.

Too bad everyone couldn't just get along.

[Chocoholic]

You forgot to mention the source of this comment, none other than the less than credible stooge of Jossy Mansur, Art Wood.

This leads me to say something I have never said before. Lol lol lol lol.

And we know what great supporters Art Wood and Jossy Mansur are of the J2K families. :D

[Grandad]

You always like to make it personal. You're so busy trying to twist my words. There are many, many people outside this board who support the quest to find Natalee's murderer and who support Beth Holloway whether you like her or not. The main suspect is Joran. This has been a circus. I just wonder if Aruba hasn't been flooded with complaints (by some influential people).

jmo


When you provide some proof Natalee's been murdered I'll be happy to join you in the search for her killer. Until then I'll continue to hope Natalee's happy in her new life and enjoying her new found freedom.

I hope you don't think Joe Mammana is one of those influential people who might have complained to Aruba. I doubt he wields much influence from his jail cell.

Who else might have complained?

[Grandad]

Do you know if this is an unusual thing to do? It is strange to me but not unheard of in the USA.


I have no idea.

[Chocoholic]

When you provide some proof Natalee's been murdered I'll be happy to join you in the search for her killer. Until then I'll continue to hope Natalee's happy in her new life and enjoying her new found freedom.

I hope you don't think Joe Mammana is one of those influential people who might have complained to Aruba. I doubt he wields much influence from his jail cell.

Who else might have complained?

Persona non-grata to Aruba Joe? I have fond memories of the person who reported him. :hat:

[Luke Davis]

I have no idea.I was hoping for more information or someone would give us the answer.

There has to be a reason for the delay.

1. Waiting for lawyer who wasn't there. I doubt this.

2. Waiting for LE to be in force in case of rioting. I doubt this.

3. Don't want Joran to have outside contact. This is likely a real possibility. If some of the rumors are true, the prosecuter may have wanted to prevent Joran from contacting Paulus for just a little longer.




MOO to the max

[Grandad]

I was hoping for more information or someone would give us the answer.

There has to be a reason for the delay.

1. Waiting for lawyer who wasn't there. I doubt this.

2. Waiting for LE to be in force in case of rioting. I doubt this.

3. Don't want Joran to have outside contact. This is likely a real possibility. If some of the rumors are true, the prosecuter may have wanted to prevent Joran from contacting Paulus for just a little longer.

MOO to the max

Maybe the judge just didn't want to do the paper work right now.

[Luke Davis]

Maybe the judge just didn't want to do the paper work right now.Thanks. I knew you could come up with something reasonable.

:hat:

[Chocoholic]

Maybe the judge just didn't want to do the paper work right now.


© AP
2007-12-06 22:55:27 -

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - Aruban authorities on Thursday decided to withhold announcing a judge's decision for a day

It doesn't say that the judge hasn't made a decision. It state that the judge's announcement will be delayed for a day.

[Chocoholic]

BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!

Here you go, make sure you don't buy or do business with any of the following:

American Airlines
US Airways
United Airlines
Delta Airlines
Jet Blue
Continental Airlines
KLM (of course)
Martinair
Marriott Corp.
Hyatt
Holiday Inn
Best Western
La Quinta
Radisson
Westin Hotels
McDonalds
Taco Bell
Burger King
Subway
Dominos Pizza
Pizza Hut
Quiznos
Papa Johns
Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines
DKNY
Tommy Hilfiger
Amstel
Heinekin
Coca Cola
Harbert Corp.
The entire State of Alabama (my personal favorite)
Valero Oil
Royal Dutch Shell
All skin care products that have natural aloe as an ingredient (and, I suppose, all companies that manufacture skin care products that have natural aloe as an ingredient)
Caribbean Life Magazine
The Discovery Networks (all of them)
HGTV
The Travel Channel
CNN
NBC
ABC
CBS
HBO
Regis and Kathy Lee
Tyra Banks
Wheel of Fortune (and, I suppose, all Merv Griffin productions)
All companies that buy advertising dollars on any of the above listed networks and/or TV shows
Isaac Hayes
Sinbad (the comedian)
Tom Joyner (and, I suppose, every radio station in America that broadcasts the Tom Joyner Morning Show)
Earth Wind and Fire
Lauren Hill
Wyclef Jean
The Isley Brothers
Graham Central Station
The Barkays
Santana
Peter Frampton
George Clinton
Peter Marks
Robin Gibb
Queen
Pat Metheny
New York (City and State)
Boston
Philadelphia
California (the entire State with a special emphasis on Los Angeles)
Atlanta
Charlotte
Miami
Fort Lauderdale
Newark, NJ
Orlando
Baltimore
Montreal
Washington, DC
Princess Cruises
Unilever products, which vary from a large variety of foods to cleaning products
Phillips, electronics (don't go to any hospital, they'll use Phillips equipment and technology).
Two of the Top Ten Forbes: ING Group and ABN Amro

Stay safe!

[terrysdoor]

Good morning all...... well now that the the Kalpoes have been released i wonder what this could do to the Dr. Phil lawsuit will it help just curious

[JustMyOpinion]

Good morning all...... well now that the the Kalpoes have been released i wonder what this could do to the Dr. Phil lawsuit will it help just curious

Good morning, terrysdoor.
I don't think their release from detention will impact the civil case in California at all. JMO
I think it is highly likely the civil case will be dismissed because plaintiffs will not comply with the judge's ruling on discovery, JMO.

[Grandad]

Good morning all...... well now that the the Kalpoes have been released i wonder what this could do to the Dr. Phil lawsuit will it help just curious

In theory it shouldn't have had any effect on the lawsuit, in practice if the case were to go to trial, it probably would.

[Grandad]

<snip>
I think it is highly likely the civil case will be dismissed because plaintiffs will not comply with the judge's ruling on discovery, JMO.


Wishful thinking.

[JustMyOpinion]

Wishful thinking.
http://www.dailynews.com/breakingnews/ci_7541046
SNIP:Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Edward A. Ferns ruled Sept. 7 that the defense lawyers were entitled to have access to the documents to prepare their case on behalf of the network and show host.

"The documents are relevant to the most fundamental issues in this case," Ferns stated in his ruling. "There is no other (information) which can substitute for the documents sought by the defendants due to the nature of this case."

Ferns said he was not swayed by the assertions of lawyers for the brothers that the majority of the documents sought by CBS and McGraw attorneys were in the hands of Aruban authorities.

CBS attorneys maintain the Kalpoes' lawyers have violated two of Ferns' orders to turn over the requested documents and say that is grounds for dismissal of the defamation suit. A hearing on their motion is scheduled Dec. 7.

According to court papers submitted by CBS attorneys, the Kalpoe lawyers turned over criminal case information concerning Satish Kalpoe, but not his brother, a clerk at an Internet cafe.

The brothers' attorneys maintained that Deepak's former criminal case lawyer refused to release the information because he had not been paid, the CBS attorneys' court papers state.

However, Ferns had ordered Deepak's file to be turned over anyway as well as numerous other documents concerning both brothers, according to CBS attorneys.

[Grandad]

http://www.dailynews.com/breakingnews/ci_7541046
SNIP:Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Edward A. Ferns ruled Sept. 7 that the defense lawyers were entitled to have access to the documents to prepare their case on behalf of the network and show host.

"The documents are relevant to the most fundamental issues in this case," Ferns stated in his ruling. "There is no other (information) which can substitute for the documents sought by the defendants due to the nature of this case."

Ferns said he was not swayed by the assertions of lawyers for the brothers that the majority of the documents sought by CBS and McGraw attorneys were in the hands of Aruban authorities.

CBS attorneys maintain the Kalpoes' lawyers have violated two of Ferns' orders to turn over the requested documents and say that is grounds for dismissal of the defamation suit. A hearing on their motion is scheduled Dec. 7.

According to court papers submitted by CBS attorneys, the Kalpoe lawyers turned over criminal case information concerning Satish Kalpoe, but not his brother, a clerk at an Internet cafe.

The brothers' attorneys maintained that Deepak's former criminal case lawyer refused to release the information because he had not been paid, the CBS attorneys' court papers state.

However, Ferns had ordered Deepak's file to be turned over anyway as well as numerous other documents concerning both brothers, according to CBS attorneys.

Apparently you're not familiar with the appeals system.

[terrysdoor]

http://www.dailynews.com/breakingnews/ci_7541046
SNIP:Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Edward A. Ferns ruled Sept. 7 that the defense lawyers were entitled to have access to the documents to prepare their case on behalf of the network and show host.

"The documents are relevant to the most fundamental issues in this case," Ferns stated in his ruling. "There is no other (information) which can substitute for the documents sought by the defendants due to the nature of this case."

Ferns said he was not swayed by the assertions of lawyers for the brothers that the majority of the documents sought by CBS and McGraw attorneys were in the hands of Aruban authorities.

CBS attorneys maintain the Kalpoes' lawyers have violated two of Ferns' orders to turn over the requested documents and say that is grounds for dismissal of the defamation suit. A hearing on their motion is scheduled Dec. 7.

According to court papers submitted by CBS attorneys, the Kalpoe lawyers turned over criminal case information concerning Satish Kalpoe, but not his brother, a clerk at an Internet cafe.

The brothers' attorneys maintained that Deepak's former criminal case lawyer refused to release the information because he had not been paid, the CBS attorneys' court papers state.

However, Ferns had ordered Deepak's file to be turned over anyway as well as numerous other documents concerning both brothers, according to CBS attorneys.

so the hearing is today.... i guess we will find out if the attorneys for Deepak turned over the info since this article IMO

[Luke Davis]

Here you go, make sure you don't buy or do business with any of the following:

American Airlines
US Airways
United Airlines
Delta Airlines
Jet Blue
Continental Airlines
KLM (of course)
Martinair
Marriott Corp.
Hyatt
Holiday Inn
Best Western
La Quinta
Radisson
Westin Hotels
McDonalds
Taco Bell
Burger King
Subway
Dominos Pizza
Pizza Hut
Quiznos
Papa Johns
Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines
DKNY
Tommy Hilfiger
Amstel
Heinekin
Coca Cola
Harbert Corp.
The entire State of Alabama (my personal favorite)
Valero Oil
Royal Dutch Shell
All skin care products that have natural aloe as an ingredient (and, I suppose, all companies that manufacture skin care products that have natural aloe as an ingredient)
Caribbean Life Magazine
The Discovery Networks (all of them)
HGTV
The Travel Channel
CNN
NBC
ABC
CBS
HBO
Regis and Kathy Lee
Tyra Banks
Wheel of Fortune (and, I suppose, all Merv Griffin productions)
All companies that buy advertising dollars on any of the above listed networks and/or TV shows
Isaac Hayes
Sinbad (the comedian)
Tom Joyner (and, I suppose, every radio station in America that broadcasts the Tom Joyner Morning Show)
Earth Wind and Fire
Lauren Hill
Wyclef Jean
The Isley Brothers
Graham Central Station
The Barkays
Santana
Peter Frampton
George Clinton
Peter Marks
Robin Gibb
Queen
Pat Metheny
New York (City and State)
Boston
Philadelphia
California (the entire State with a special emphasis on Los Angeles)
Atlanta
Charlotte
Miami
Fort Lauderdale
Newark, NJ
Orlando
Baltimore
Montreal
Washington, DC
Princess Cruises
Unilever products, which vary from a large variety of foods to cleaning products
Phillips, electronics (don't go to any hospital, they'll use Phillips equipment and technology).
Two of the Top Ten Forbes: ING Group and ABN Amro

Stay safe!

But.. but.. but many of these helped Beth and Dave.:rose:

[Luke Davis]

In theory it shouldn't have had any effect on the lawsuit, in practice if the case were to go to trial, it probably would.I think it helps the Kalpoes if there is no new evidence. It could show a systematic harassment by various entities supported by the Twitty family.

:hat:

[Luke Davis]

Tribune (http://www.thenewstribune.com/tacoma/24hour/world/story/223434.html)


ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- A judge has ordered the release of a Dutch suspect who was re-arrested last month in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, the Aruba prosecutors' office said Friday.
The judge called for Joran van der Sloot, 20, to be freed, according to John Pauly, a communications consultant who acts as a spokesman for the prosecutors' office. Details of the ruling were not immediately available and a news conference was scheduled for later in the day.

Van der Sloot was arrested Nov. 21 along with two other suspects, Surinamese brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, who were released from jail on Saturday after a judge found the evidence was not strong enough to continue holding them.

[Heyes]

Yeah, I'll bet the judge was reading this board and is scared of the four or five of you who want to see an innocent person incarcerated, to please a grieving fund raiser.

4 or 5 of us on this board. you might want to look past us here and realize that there are many, many, many of us who believe joran needs to do some serious time. Just turn on your TV or radio the next time aruba makes another bone-headed move.
oh and lol lol lol .
She is a grieving MOTHER. show some compassion.
IMO
Joran innocent????? really, those are some rather wicked "innocent lies" that your golden boy came up with. How did he know his Hilton story wouldn't be challanged by Natalee if he only left her on the beach???? GUILTY that's why. IMO no other explaination.

[Heyes]

Here you go, make sure you don't buy or do business with any of the following:

American Airlines
US Airways
United Airlines
Delta Airlines
Jet Blue
Continental Airlines
KLM (of course)
Martinair
Marriott Corp.
Hyatt
Holiday Inn
Best Western
La Quinta
Radisson
Westin Hotels
McDonalds
Taco Bell
Burger King
Subway
Dominos Pizza
Pizza Hut
Quiznos
Papa Johns
Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines
DKNY
Tommy Hilfiger
Amstel
Heinekin
Coca Cola
Harbert Corp.
The entire State of Alabama (my personal favorite)
Valero Oil
Royal Dutch Shell
All skin care products that have natural aloe as an ingredient (and, I suppose, all companies that manufacture skin care products that have natural aloe as an ingredient)
Caribbean Life Magazine
The Discovery Networks (all of them)
HGTV
The Travel Channel
CNN
NBC
ABC
CBS
HBO
Regis and Kathy Lee
Tyra Banks
Wheel of Fortune (and, I suppose, all Merv Griffin productions)
All companies that buy advertising dollars on any of the above listed networks and/or TV shows
Isaac Hayes
Sinbad (the comedian)
Tom Joyner (and, I suppose, every radio station in America that broadcasts the Tom Joyner Morning Show)
Earth Wind and Fire
Lauren Hill
Wyclef Jean
The Isley Brothers
Graham Central Station
The Barkays
Santana
Peter Frampton
George Clinton
Peter Marks
Robin Gibb
Queen
Pat Metheny
New York (City and State)
Boston
Philadelphia
California (the entire State with a special emphasis on Los Angeles)
Atlanta
Charlotte
Miami
Fort Lauderdale
Newark, NJ
Orlando
Baltimore
Montreal
Washington, DC
Princess Cruises
Unilever products, which vary from a large variety of foods to cleaning products
Phillips, electronics (don't go to any hospital, they'll use Phillips equipment and technology).
Two of the Top Ten Forbes: ING Group and ABN Amro

Stay safe!


LOL what does aruba export again? lol aloe? wow
I heard valero is leaving,. the tourists are leaving so other than drugs how will aruba make their money again, exactly?
IMO

[Heyes]

According to joe T. This judge SMIDs, is the same one who let these guys go from the beginning. So IMO it was a given from the get go that these suspects would be let out. aruba was just trying to pull the wool over America's eyes one more time, in hopes that if they looked like they did everything to solve the case that people would come back and vacation there. Sad to think these arubans and dutch would think that Americans are this stupid not to see through their BS.
Now we will work even harder to keep our citizens away from that island.
I have a microphone and an audience and I know how to use them. And I will.
I am lucky enough to have a public forum, time to use it!

IMOIMOIMO

[fairmaiden]

According to joe T. This judge SMIDs, is the same one who let these guys go from the beginning. So IMO it was a given from the get go that these suspects would be let out. aruba was just trying to pull the wool over America's eyes one more time, in hopes that if they looked like they did everything to solve the case that people would come back and vacation there. Sad to think these arubans and dutch would think that Americans are this stupid not to see through their BS.
Now we will work even harder to keep our citizens away from that island.
I have a microphone and an audience and I know how to use them. And I will.
I am lucky enough to have a public forum, time to use it!

IMOIMOIMO

Well, I've "listened" to you for a long time, Heyes. I've watch you post about kidnappers, rapists, and murderers. I've even watched you recently rally the cry .... "BOYCOTT ARUBA !!". It's perfectly obvious to me that, as far as you're concerned, it doesn't matter to you that innocent people might suffer.

I wonder how many other people will listen to you when you pick up your "microphone", and address your "audience" ??

Have you EVER, for just one second, considered the idea there IS no evidence of a violent crime , much less that Joran et al were the "perpetrators"?? Have you ever considered that something else could have happened to Natalee ?? Have you ever considered even the possibility that IF Natalee had been harmed, someone else could be responsible ?? You have never seen an investigative file . I wonder how many people they interviewed during this investigation?? I wonder of all those people were forthcoming with their answers to questions. I wonder if every single one of them was truthful ?? I wonder if the MB students were totally forthcoming ??

ETA .... I meant to add. You are determined to believe that "Americans" have followed this case since the beginning. I went to my daughter's last night, and I was talking to her about the recent happenings in this case. I had to REMIND her who Natalee Holloway was. When you really think about it, Heyes .... The majority of "Americans" are not interested in this case at all .... just us "messageboard posters".

"WE WILL WORK HARDER TO KEEP OUR CITIZENS AWAY FROM THAT ISLAND" .... are YOU kidding ????

JMO

[Chocoholic]

LOL what does aruba export again? lol aloe? wow
I heard valero is leaving,. the tourists are leaving so other than drugs how will aruba make their money again, exactly?
IMO

Nah you see, that list is from some of the pro family boards, the companies which do business with Aruba must be boycotted also, otherwise it's not a true boycott.

I'm not sure why Alabama continues to do business with Aruba :shrug: I guess the cry "Boycott Aruba" isn't working as well as some would like.

[Luke Davis]

"If they don't have enough to hold them to simply interrogate them, they don't have enough to hold them to face charges," New York lawyer John Q. Kelly said. "They certainly don't have enough to convict them of the charges. It's pretty simple stuff."



People (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20165014,00.html)

[Luke Davis]

Nah you see, that list is from some of the pro family boards, the companies which do business with Aruba must be boycotted also, otherwise it's not a true boycott.

I'm not sure why Alabama continues to do business with Aruba :shrug: I guess the cry "Boycott Aruba" isn't working as well as some would like.

IIRC Natalee's Aunt Carla represents Aruba, Jug's company does business with them and so does Jar's bank.:patriot:

[Heyes]

Well, I've "listened" to you for a long time, Heyes. I've watch you post about kidnappers, rapists, and murderers. I've even watched you recently rally the cry .... "BOYCOTT ARUBA !!". It's perfectly obvious to me that, as far as you're concerned, it doesn't matter to you that innocent people might suffer.

I wonder how many other people will listen to you when you pick up your "microphone", and address your "audience" ??

Have you EVER, for just one second, considered the idea there IS no evidence of a violent crime , much less that Joran et al were the "perpetrators"?? Have you ever considered that something else could have happened to Natalee ?? Have you ever considered even the possibility that IF Natalee had been harmed, someone else could be responsible ?? You have never seen an investigative file . I wonder how many people they interviewed during this investigation?? I wonder of all those people were forthcoming with their answers to questions. I wonder if every single one of them was truthful ?? I wonder if the MB students were totally forthcoming ??

ETA .... I meant to add. You are determined to believe that "Americans" have followed this case since the beginning. I went to my daughter's last night, and I was talking to her about the recent happenings in this case. I had to REMIND her who Natalee Holloway was. When you really think about it, Heyes .... The majority of "Americans" are not interested in this case at all .... just us "messageboard posters".

"WE WILL WORK HARDER TO KEEP OUR CITIZENS AWAY FROM THAT ISLAND" .... are YOU kidding ????

JMO

Nope!

BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!

[No Nic]

"If they don't have enough to hold them to simply interrogate them, they don't have enough to hold them to face charges," New York lawyer John Q. Kelly said. "They certainly don't have enough to convict them of the charges. It's pretty simple stuff."



People (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20165014,00.html)

People.... good....that should remind how many reader ? who Natalee Holloway is and why they need to spend their hard earned $$ elswhere. Never vacation on Arubafornia, you may never get to leave.

imo

[Grandad]

But.. but.. but many of these helped Beth and Dave.:rose:

But.. but.. but.. so what?

They probably didn't help enough.

[HiLife]

According to joe T. This judge SMIDs, is the same one who let these guys go from the beginning. So IMO it was a given from the get go that these suspects would be let out. aruba was just trying to pull the wool over America's eyes one more time, in hopes that if they looked like they did everything to solve the case that people would come back and vacation there. Sad to think these arubans and dutch would think that Americans are this stupid not to see through their BS.

Now we will work even harder to keep our citizens away from that island.

I have a microphone and an audience and I know how to use them. And I will.
I am lucky enough to have a public forum, time to use it!

IMOIMOIMO

I'm with you, Heyes. This latest sham was the last sick, cruel straw. It baffles me they thought this would do their image any good or that it wouldn't be seen for the flim-flam that it was/is.

You are lucky to have a public forum - I would do the same!

jmo

[Grandad]

I think it helps the Kalpoes if there is no new evidence. It could show a systematic harassment by various entities supported by the Twitty family.

:hat:

I don't think attorneys would consider that in settlement negotiations. A jury probably would.

[fairmaiden]

Nope!

BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!

Perhaps you should listen to JQK, Heyes . It IS "pretty simple stuff".

JMO

[Grandad]

<snip>
So IMO it was a given from the get go that these suspects would be let out. aruba was just trying to pull the wool over America's eyes one more time

<snip>

Do you think Aruba arranged the mall shootings to divert attention from Joran's release?

[Grandad]

Perhaps you should listen to JQK, Heyes . It IS "pretty simple stuff".

JMO

Probably why JQK understands it.

The complexity of filing a civil suit seems to have been a bit much for him.

[Grandad]

<snip>
I am lucky enough to have a public forum, time to use it!


What forum is that? This board?

What do you have? Four people who will listen to you?