Discussion Thread 2007 (Part 6)

[Grandad]

I understand that Patrick is a convicted criminal.. and that quite possibly he did this whole thing for the wrong reasons... but I just do not see how it matters. I would think, naturally, only a criminal would be able to fool a criminal (Joran) into trusting them the way Patrick did and get him to spell his guts, and I think he knew that. Either way, how can you ignore what came out of Joran's mouth
IMO

I'm not ignoring what came out of Joran's mouth, I'm simply considering two factors which many posters choose to ignore.

First, Joran's statements are conflicting. If you choose to believe one group, it would appear Joran asked someone to help him get out of a mess.

Even if you select this option, Joran didn't confess to murdering or harming Natalee in any way, nor did he admit to participate in disposing of her body. As matter of fact he didn't even ask "Daury" to dump the body at sea. This was Daury's idea, and he did it without Joran's help.

If you choose the other group of statements, the only logical conclusion is Joran was playing games with Patrick. He was either creating scenarios at Patrick's request, or trying to determine how naive Patrick was, and how outrageous his statements had to be before Patrick would question his honesty.

Second, and more important, we've heard about 20 minutes of 20 hours of tape. Do you think you can make an objective assessment based on having heard less than two per cent of the recordings?

[Grandad]

I read it and understood it perfectly. JORAN IS NOT WANTED IN ARUBA.

I never said they could legally keep him out. Don't twist my words.

Believe me, you and those sever posters are the last I would go to for any kind of "help".

"JORAN IS NOT WANTED IN ARUBA" is a statement you simply can't justify. You quoted something one person said. That person doesn't speak for the government of Aruba, nor for all the residents of Aruba.

Assuming you did understand the article, you grossly misrepresented it.

We all know you are entitled to your opinion, but misrepresenting other people's statements is not expressing an opinion, it is a blatant attempt to mislead and deceive.

[fairmaiden]

I'm not ignoring what came out of Joran's mouth, I'm simply considering two factors which many posters choose to ignore.

First, Joran's statements are conflicting. If you choose to believe one group, it would appear Joran asked someone to help him get out of a mess.

Even if you select this option, Joran didn't confess to murdering or harming Natalee in any way, nor did he admit to participate in disposing of her body. As matter of fact he didn't even ask "Daury" to dump the body at sea. This was Daury's idea, and he did it without Joran's help.

If you choose the other group of statements, the only logical conclusion is Joran was playing games with Patrick. He was either creating scenarios at Patrick's request, or trying to determine how naive Patrick was, and how outrageous his statements had to be before Patrick would question his honesty.

Second, and more important, we've heard about 20 minutes of 20 hours of tape. Do you think you can make an objective assessment based on having heard less than two per cent of the recordings?

Hi Grandad ....

Your post is absolutely correct. Joran did NOT admit to "murdering" anyone. I see it posted all over now .... "Natalee was very likely still alive". Joran didn't say THAT either. Joran said very clearly, he thought Natalee was dead !!

Again .... posters are "picking and choosing" what to believe in Joran's "confession", and what NOT to believe. Just a TAD disingenuous.

JMO

[ortiga]

Hi Grandad ....

Your post is absolutely correct. Joran did NOT admit to "murdering" anyone. I see it posted all over now .... "Natalee was very likely still alive". Joran didn't say THAT either. Joran said very clearly, he thought Natalee was dead !!

Again .... posters are "picking and choosing" what to believe in Joran's "confession", and what NOT to believe. Just a TAD disingenuous.

JMO

Hi FM,

What's funny is that people like Twitty et al, and all the minions like some we see on this board, don't even realize that their own flamboyant overboard slanderous cries for Joran's head only help him in the long run, as the Dutch/Aruban system will compensate, in a way, by being extra careful in every step they make. And, will probably continue to chastise the Americans that continue to go ape shi t, (!!) in trying to step on the rights of the accused. Should he ever become accused.

[No Nic]

"JORAN IS NOT WANTED IN ARUBA" is a statement you simply can't justify. You quoted something one person said. That person doesn't speak for the government of Aruba, nor for all the residents of Aruba.

Assuming you did understand the article, you grossly misrepresented it.

We all know you are entitled to your opinion, but misrepresenting other people's statements is not expressing an opinion, it is a blatant attempt to mislead and deceive.


It's only "misrepresenting" in the minds of the few Joran followers left. Expand your reading, you may find yourself enlightened. I have seen several reports regarding the Aruban and Dutch people who are very upset with what this sociopath has done to their island and their county. Joran is in hiding, Joran is suicidal, Paulus has asked for police protection, etc.etc. Even Joran and Paulus are smart enough to realize Joran is not wanted anywhere.

I will not waste my time providing you links to the above for more of your twist and spin, they are out there (but you know that).

IMO

[Heyes]

Hi FM,

What's funny is that people like Twitty et al, and all the minions like some we see on this board, don't even realize that their own flamboyant overboard slanderous cries for Joran's head only help him in the long run, as the Dutch/Aruban system will compensate, in a way, by being extra careful in every step they make. And, will probably continue to chastise the Americans that continue to go ape shi t, (!!) in trying to step on the rights of the accused. Should he ever become accused.

Still sticking with the *joran is innocent* spiel ,eh? lol lol lol

wow!

[ortiga]

It's only "misrepresenting" in the minds of the few Joran followers left. Expand your reading, you may find yourself enlightened. I have seen several reports regarding the Aruban and Dutch people who are very upset with what this sociopath has done to their island and their county. Joran is in hiding, Joran is suicidal, Paulus has asked for police protection, etc.etc. Even Joran and Paulus are smart enough to realize Joran is not wanted anywhere.

I will not waste my time providing you links to the above for more of your twist and spin, they are out there (but you know that).

IMO

Don't you even realize how weak you make your own arguments, and how silly your statements appear on the whole when you use terms like "joran followers".

[Heyes]

It's only "misrepresenting" in the minds of the few Joran followers left. Expand your reading, you may find yourself enlightened. I have seen several reports regarding the Aruban and Dutch people who are very upset with what this sociopath has done to their island and their county. Joran is in hiding, Joran is suicidal, Paulus has asked for police protection, etc.etc. Even Joran and Paulus are smart enough to realize Joran is not wanted anywhere.

I will not waste my time providing you links to the above for more of your twist and spin, they are out there (but you know that).

IMO

Oh yes anita's "suicidal" announcement.
Like we'd be so lucky.
imo

[ortiga]

Still sticking with the *joran is innocent* spiel ,eh? lol lol lol

wow!


Joran is still unaccused of any crime, has not confessed to any crime, no crime has been shown to have occurred, and IIRC the Dutch, Aruban, and USA sytems are based on IUPG. I know you probably don't know that, based on your posts over the years, or maybe you won't even care about that principle until it applies to your own family member. And you probably don't see the difference in saying "joran is innocent", which I haven't said, and saying "IUPG" or that no crime has been proven to have been committed, etc.

For that reason I will not bother to explain to you why it is immoral to go on TV, as Twitty did on Geraldo, and say things like "I want to kill him and peel off his skin", "joran is not in his grave yet". (Tee hee, little hint there from the Christian Beth Twitty) But, then you have to consider the educational level of someone who, on the same show, within the first minute or so, said "eXpeshally". She'll have to work on that a little before accepting one of the flood of anchor positions that are pouring her way now.

Unfortunately on TV, and sometimes on these boards, it's the uneducated that draw the most attention with their histrionics and blather.

IMO

[ortiga]

Oh yes anita's "suicidal" announcement.
Like we'd be so lucky.
imo

I guess that means you are in favor of suicide? Are you a Christian like Beth "I want to kill him" Twitty?

[Heyes]

I guess that means you are in favor of suicide? Are you a Christian like Beth "I want to kill him" Twitty?

Sure does seem like it frosts your hide now that joran's shown the world what kind of monster he really is. Sorry about that. But it is what it is.
I would think at some point defending him would just get exhausting.
Beth has been validated.

Hey thanks for the laughs.
Your posts are getting funnier and funnier!
:D
imo

[SaraSidle]

If you would believe anything Joran said would it not be in the very least negligent homicide for not calling 911 when she went into "seizures"?

[Heyes]

If you would believe anything Joran said would it not be in the very least negligent homicide for not calling 911 when she went into "seizures"?

among a dozen other charges....
But we are dealing with aruba and paulus's pals so I wouldn't hold my breath. Unles the NL mans up and removes the problem from the source.
This case is so obvious, the world knows what's happening. The coverup did start from day one. We all know it now.
It's aruba's move.... what will they do?
I almost am looking forward to see how they try to slime out of this.
Unfortunatly there will be another victim. joran can't control himself.
The blood will be on aruba, and the NL's hands.

imo

[Grandad]

If you would believe anything Joran said would it not be in the very least negligent homicide for not calling 911 when she went into "seizures"?

I'm not that familiar with Aruban law, but it wouldn't be considered negligent homicide in Pennsylvania, New York or New Jersey.

[Grandad]

It's only "misrepresenting" in the minds of the few Joran followers left. Expand your reading, you may find yourself enlightened. I have seen several reports regarding the Aruban and Dutch people who are very upset with what this sociopath has done to their island and their county. Joran is in hiding, Joran is suicidal, Paulus has asked for police protection, etc.etc. Even Joran and Paulus are smart enough to realize Joran is not wanted anywhere.

I will not waste my time providing you links to the above for more of your twist and spin, they are out there (but you know that).

IMO

Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Same ol', same ol'.

[SaraSidle]

among a dozen other charges....
But we are dealing with aruba and paulus's pals so I wouldn't hold my breath. Unles the NL mans up and removes the problem from the source.
This case is so obvious, the world knows what's happening. The coverup did start from day one. We all know it now.
It's aruba's move.... what will they do?
I almost am looking forward to see how they try to slime out of this.
Unfortunatly there will be another victim. joran can't control himself.
The blood will be on aruba, and the NL's hands.

imo

Sadly, I agree with you 100 percent

[Luke Davis]

I'm not that familiar with Aruban law, but it wouldn't be considered negligent homicide in Pennsylvania, New York or New Jersey.In California it would be charged as murder.

IMO

[Grandad]

In California it would be charged as murder.

IMO


Luke, I respect your opinion, and appreciate your research, but I'm afraid I'll have to ask for a link to that.

Aside from the three states I mentioned, it's my understanding most states require only licensed doctors to provide medical aid, or assistance of any kind in a medical emergency.

[monaLiSakitty]

I sure don't see anyone ignoring what he said, lol.

The point is that the law much be followed before convicting a person of any crime.

But then, I did not see that he admitted to any crime. He sure seems like a dope, but did not admit to a crime.

IMO


I do understand what you are saying, and I believe that most people [should] know he technically did not admit to any crime. But law aside, everyone is basically reacting to the awful things he says on these videos, which is understandable. I don't think we need to get technical for how we have heard one human being talk about another, especially a suspect.

What bothers me is that he told an entire story that steered him clear of any convictions to this guy, which I believe is a little too convenient. There is just more to it. JMO

[No Nic]

Don't you even realize how weak you make your own arguments, and how silly your statements appear on the whole when you use terms like "joran followers".


Weak and silly ?????? Do you ever read your own posts????? I cannot remember when you have last contributed anything to a discussion here. Most every post has been Beth, Beth, Beth. As far as "use of terms", again, read your own posts and you will find many, many disgusting "terms".

MEEEEOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW

[cassidy]

I do understand what you are saying, and I believe that most people [should] know he technically did not admit to any crime. But law aside, everyone is basically reacting to the awful things he says on these videos, which is understandable. I don't think we need to get technical for how we have heard one human being talk about another, especially a suspect.

What bothers me is that he told an entire story that steered him clear of any convictions to this guy, which I believe is a little too convenient. There is just more to it. JMO

And I am wondering why, if they had him talking they didn't keep him talking until they had proof positive. They had to know they didn't have enough to bring charges so why stop?

[SukiJane]

Oh yes anita's "suicidal" announcement.
Like we'd be so lucky.
imo


The suicide watch was a pathetic attempt from the family to seek sympathy from the public, because ya see, Anita can no longer use the ole, Joran is such a sweet boy, and he said, "look mommy, I'm reading the bible". We should ALL know now, that Joran is far from being a sweet boy. Lord have Mercy, the lies belched from the mouths of this family for the past few years to protect their son are unbelievable.

If Joran really wanted to commit suicide, he'd be dead by now, but it is interesting to note only now do we hear this, only now after he's been caught running his mouth. It was all fun and games for him as long as there was room for speculation, like Natalee ran away, Natalee met up with someone else, Natalee was whisked away on the MedJet. We all know what happened to Natalee, we just need to find out exactly why Joran needed a quick disposal of the body.

jmo

[Grandad]

<snip>

MEEEEOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW


A really adult response. Not!!!

[Grandad]

And I am wondering why, if they had him talking they didn't keep him talking until they had proof positive. They had to know they didn't have enough to bring charges so why stop?


I believe your question would be answered if the 19+ hours of recording we didn't hear were made public.

I personally don't think DeVries really cared about LE bringing charges. This was just payback for the wine tossing incident.

The guy really knows how to use the power of the press to his personal advantage.

[Luke Davis]

Luke, I respect your opinion, and appreciate your research, but I'm afraid I'll have to ask for a link to that.

Aside from the three states I mentioned, it's my understanding most states require only licensed doctors to provide medical aid, or assistance of any kind in a medical emergency.I wasn't addressing that point specifically. Yes, California does have a Good Semaritan law.


IMO

[Heyes]

I believe your question would be answered if the 19+ hours of recording we didn't hear were made public.

I personally don't think DeVries really cared about LE bringing charges. This was just payback for the wine tossing incident.

The guy really knows how to use the power of the press to his personal advantage.

So releasing the tape of joran confessing to what a monster he is was in response to the wine throwing tantrum? lol lol Give me a freaking break. What lengths some will go to.:shrug:

Your boy joran is a murderer/raper and his parents enabled his behavior. It just is what it is.
Poor Natalee.
If only joran would have thought of suicide, say...about 3 years ago, Natalee would be alive and thriving.
Other than his poor excuse for parents, who would miss the guy?
imo

[Grandad]

So releasing the tape of joran confessing to what a monster he is was in response to the wine throwing tantrum?

<snip>

Does it actually serve any other purpose?

What do you think you know now that you didn't think you knew before?

[ortiga]

I do understand what you are saying, and I believe that most people [should] know he technically did not admit to any crime. But law aside, everyone is basically reacting to the awful things he says on these videos, which is understandable. I don't think we need to get technical for how we have heard one human being talk about another, especially a suspect.

What bothers me is that he told an entire story that steered him clear of any convictions to this guy, which I believe is a little too convenient. There is just more to it. JMO

But we didn't hear the entire story, there are 20 tapes and we heard just snippets. We didn't hear if he explained things more on the additional tapes, and we don't know why DV and scarface would quit just when they might have been on the brink of discovering real evidence. Instead, they left the waters very muddy, and it is very suspicious that they quit, or that they themselves didn't like what is on the last tapes, thus they possibly supressed them.

[ortiga]

Weak and silly ?????? Do you ever read your own posts????? I cannot remember when you have last contributed anything to a discussion here. Most every post has been Beth, Beth, Beth. As far as "use of terms", again, read your own posts and you will find many, many disgusting "terms".

MEEEEOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWW


Thanks for proving my point. Weak and silly arguments in support of your position.

[ortiga]

The suicide watch was a pathetic attempt from the family to seek sympathy from the public, because ya see, Anita can no longer use the ole, Joran is such a sweet boy, and he said, "look mommy, I'm reading the bible". We should ALL know now, that Joran is far from being a sweet boy. Lord have Mercy, the lies belched from the mouths of this family for the past few years to protect their son are unbelievable.

If Joran really wanted to commit suicide, he'd be dead by now, but it is interesting to note only now do we hear this, only now after he's been caught running his mouth. It was all fun and games for him as long as there was room for speculation, like Natalee ran away, Natalee met up with someone else, Natalee was whisked away on the MedJet. We all know what happened to Natalee, we just need to find out exactly why Joran needed a quick disposal of the body.

jmo

Apparently Natalee drank herself into a state where her own body could not tolerate the alcohol, and died from alcohol poisoning, which can include seizures. :read:

If Joran broke the law he should be punished. If he broke a moral code, I would say he has already paid. Since Natalee never drank before Aruba, then her mother bears some responsibility for choosing the drinking vacation, and the friends and "chaperones" also bear moral responsibility for letting her continue to drink even after the bar altercation and the guy having to take her intoxicated to her room on Saturday night. If all that we have heard of Natalee's behavior is true, or even part of it for that matter, she was an accident waiting to happen. One thing I believe for sure that Joran said is that he was not interested in her until the jello shot. Fate has a funny way of being borne out by inconsequential actions that in retrospect take on gigantic proportions.

IMO

[ortiga]

I believe your question would be answered if the 19+ hours of recording we didn't hear were made public.

I personally don't think DeVries really cared about LE bringing charges. This was just payback for the wine tossing incident.

The guy really knows how to use the power of the press to his personal advantage.


I agree about the wine toss, he must have been furious beyond words.

I don't know if it is true, a Dutch poster mentioned sweeps week, similar to the timing of the Phil-Beth TV shows.

I don't think he cared at all about proving anything, there had to be a money angle for him to curtail it before achieving anything but fame.

IMO

[SaraSidle]

Apparently Natalee drank herself into a state where her own body could not tolerate the alcohol, and died from alcohol poisoning, which can include seizures. :read:

If Joran broke the law he should be punished. If he broke a moral code, I would say he has already paid. Since Natalee never drank before Aruba, then her mother bears some responsibility for choosing the drinking vacation, and the friends and "chaperones" also bear moral responsibility for letting her continue to drink even after the bar altercation and the guy having to take her intoxicated to her room on Saturday night. If all that we have heard of Natalee's behavior is true, or even part of it for that matter, she was an accident waiting to happen. One thing I believe for sure that Joran said is that he was not interested in her until the jello shot. Fate has a funny way of being borne out by inconsequential actions that in retrospect take on gigantic proportions.

IMO
wow ortiaga. this makes you judge, jury and medical expert all in one post

[ortiga]

wow ortiaga. this makes you judge, jury and medical expert all in one post


After 112 posts, have you noticed yet what IMO means? How about "if", "apparently", and other words and phrases that indicate that a poster is theorizing? I think you should pay more attention to posters that have convicted Joran of murder, gang rape, etc. Now, that is being judge and jury.

IMO

[Heyes]

Does it actually serve any other purpose?

What do you think you know now that you didn't think you knew before?
Now I know that the world agrees and believes as I have for over 2 years that joran is a murderer and aruba is corrupt.
And most importantly....
Beth has been validated!
Now have you learned anything from jorans behavior?
Are you still buying the *good sporter* image anita tried so desperately to put forth? If ya are I got a bridge for sale!
imo

[ortiga]

Now I know that the world agrees and believes as I have for over 2 years that joran is a murderer and aruba is corrupt.
And most importantly....
Beth has been validated!
Now have you learned anything from jorans behavior?
Are you still buying the *good sporter* image anita tried so desperately to put forth? If ya are I got a bridge for sale!
imo

the world agrees.....lol

[Grandad]

After 112 posts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

<snip>

Since the moderating has become a little less strict perhaps some of our posters got themselves shiny new nics so that when things are slow they can post to themselves and pat themselves on the back.

I'm sure you remember the poster who, when she wasn't herself, was her daughter, because you busted her.

[fairmaiden]

After 112 posts, have you noticed yet what IMO means? How about "if", "apparently", and other words and phrases that indicate that a poster is theorizing? I think you should pay more attention to posters that have convicted Joran of murder, gang rape, etc. Now, that is being judge and jury.

IMO

Great point, ortiga . I'm trying to figure out where in this TRUE "confession" of Joran's he admitted "murdering" Natalee, as well as "raping" her. That's not what I heard .... oooooooops wait, he was lying in this "true confession" of his.

JMO

[Grandad]

the world agrees.....lol

Some people live in their own little world. Then, I guess there could be 5 or 6 people sharing the same little world.

[Heyes]

Apparently Natalee drank herself into a state where her own body could not tolerate the alcohol, and died from alcohol poisoning, which can include seizures. :read:

If Joran broke the law he should be punished. If he broke a moral code, I would say he has already paid. Since Natalee never drank before Aruba, then her mother bears some responsibility for choosing the drinking vacation, and the friends and "chaperones" also bear moral responsibility for letting her continue to drink even after the bar altercation and the guy having to take her intoxicated to her room on Saturday night. If all that we have heard of Natalee's behavior is true, or even part of it for that matter, she was an accident waiting to happen. One thing I believe for sure that Joran said is that he was not interested in her until the jello shot. Fate has a funny way of being borne out by inconsequential actions that in retrospect take on gigantic proportions.

IMO
This sounds just like the vandersloot mantra. Even if joran did do something to cover up a little,..... *Others are to blame!*

The world knows better now.
His game has ended.
He's toast.
IMO

[Heyes]

Some people live in their own little world. Then, I guess there could be 5 or 6 people sharing the same little world.

lol
are ya kidding me?
:patriot:

[Grandad]

lol
are ya kidding me?
:patriot:

Why would I kid ya [[i]sic[/]]?

[Grandad]

lol
are ya kidding me?
:patriot:

Why would I kid ya [sic]?

[HiLife]

<snipped>

Unfortunately on TV, and sometimes on these boards, it's the uneducated that draw the most attention with their histrionics and blather.

IMO

Yes, your posts, especially, prove the above you say is true! Refreshing to see you finally able to be so honest about yourself!

[HiLife]

Hi Grandad ....

Your post is absolutely correct. Joran did NOT admit to "murdering" anyone. I see it posted all over now .... "Natalee was very likely still alive". Joran didn't say THAT either. Joran said very clearly, he thought Natalee was dead !!

<snipped>

JMO

I think you need to watch it again, FM. When Patrick asked him if Natalee was alive or dead, Joran shrugged and said HE DID NOT KNOW - very clearly.

imo

[HiLife]

Don't you even realize how weak you make your own arguments, and how silly your statements appear on the whole when you use terms like "joran followers".

Is "Sporter Supporters" better? :beer:

[HiLife]

Some people live in their own little world. Then, I guess there could be 5 or 6 people sharing the same little world.

Since you're the one with several nics, I suppose it's only natural to project that onto others.

No matter how you spin it, most people believe Joran is still guilty of murder and most probably rape.

imo

[Grandad]

.
<snip>

No matter how you spin it, most people believe Joran is still guilty of murder and most probably rape.

imo

Most people don't even know who Joran is.

[ortiga]

Is "Sporter Supporters" better? :beer:

Sure, that's right in line with your type of posts. But, oddly, everytime you say that here and on other boards I think only of a jock strap. Are you calling other posters jock straps?

[ortiga]

Since you're the one with several nics, I suppose it's only natural to project that onto others.

No matter how you spin it, most people believe Joran is still guilty of murder and most probably rape.

imo

That won't fly, given the jello shot. IMO she drank herself to death, the stars shifted positions that night and 2 young people were thrown together, one being tipsy, the other intrigued by the jello shot.

And, there is a big question of why she acted out so much in Aruba, given that she had never experienced alcohol or boys before, and why that mother wanted her to experience that type of bacchanalian vacation, when Natalee's main interest, according to Beth, was getting 100% accuracy on her bible quotations. I will always wonder what exactly was said on her call to the mother, why it was that she didn't seem to want to live her life as it had been lived in MB.

As many facelifts and botox injections that she gets to transform her into a different person, she has to live with the idea that she wanted Natalee to be something she was not, which, IMO contributed to placing Natalee on the beach where she had the extreme reaction to extreme drinking. IMO

Here, Hilife, just for you so you don't have to look it up:

"difficult words"
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dictionaries/difficultwords/data/d0001908.html

[ortiga]

Most people don't even know who Joran is.

Sure they do GD. yorAN, salTISH, etc.

[Grandad]

<snip>
As many facelifts and botox injections that she [Beth] gets to transform her into a different person

<snip>

I think the thing about this case that intrigues me most, and keeps me interested, is that so few people admit that Beth's actions are, at a minimum, odd.

I'm sure the case has also set a record for the number of nut cases, like Hodges, T. J. Ward, Art Wood, and so on, who have inserted themselves into the mix.

The other thing I don't understand is why, except for a few posters on message boards, is no one concerned about Jossy's actions. His motive appears to be obvious, but how he has escaped scrutiny for the bogus witnesses and evidence he manufactured boggles my mind.

What happened to Natalee is certainly not the only mystery here.

[terrysdoor]

I think the thing about this case that intrigues me most, and keeps me interested, is that so few people admit that Beth's actions are, at a minimum, odd.

I'm sure the case has also set a record for the number of nut cases, like Hodges, T. J. Ward, Art Wood, and so on, who have inserted themselves into the mix.

The other thing I don't understand is why, except for a few posters on message boards, is no one concerned about Jossy's actions. His motive appears to be obvious, but how he has escaped scrutiny for the bogus witnesses and evidence he manufactured boggles my mind.

What happened to Natalee is certainly not the only mystery here.

Hello everybody........GD i have to agree with you too many people have inserted themselves in this case that makes no sense at all IMO

[Luke Davis]

I think the thing about this case that intrigues me most, and keeps me interested, is that so few people admit that Beth's actions are, at a minimum, odd.

I'm sure the case has also set a record for the number of nut cases, like Hodges, T. J. Ward, Art Wood, and so on, who have inserted themselves into the mix.

The other thing I don't understand is why, except for a few posters on message boards, is no one concerned about Jossy's actions. His motive appears to be obvious, but how he has escaped scrutiny for the bogus witnesses and evidence he manufactured boggles my mind.

What happened to Natalee is certainly not the only mystery here.

ITA :beer:

My favorite is the legislator who assisted in the search for Natalee and used campaign funds. But she seached Aruba in May 2004!:hat:

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Discovery provided (http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/kalpoemcgraw/020808_DK_Discovery.pdf)

[Luke Davis]

ORANJESTAD – The Public Prosecutor (OM) announced yesterday that the Common Court of Justice of the Neth.Antilles and Aruba won’t decide on a possible arrest of Joran van der Sloot tomorrow, because it was decided that the Dutch lawyer of Van der Sloot gets till Wednesday to give his vision on the case.

Amigoe (http://www.amigoe.com/english/)

[HiLife]

Most people don't even know who Joran is.

You wish. Joran's confession was big time news. Didn't they say 7 million people watched the DeVries show in the Netherlands? It was big news here, too, even gave the election coverage a run for its money.

Joran has nowhere to hide. Most people do know who he is. He is the guy who left a girl to die/probably raped and murdered her, and then called someone to dispose of her body - without knowing if she was alive or dead.

jmo

[Heyes]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairmaiden
Hi Grandad ....

Your post is absolutely correct. Joran did NOT admit to "murdering" anyone. I see it posted all over now .... "Natalee was very likely still alive". Joran didn't say THAT either. Joran said very clearly, he thought Natalee was dead !!

<snipped>

JMO






I think you need to watch it again, FM. When Patrick asked him if Natalee was alive or dead, Joran shrugged and said HE DID NOT KNOW - very clearly.

imo
In defendng joran I see this often, I'll just use fair's quote as an example here.
Most of us see the monster in joran. His actions and words are that of a callous, cold hearted murderer.
However,
the defenders otherwise deemed "jockstraps" by ortiga, lol, seem to feel that since joran thought she was dead , then heck give the boy a pass.... WTH?

Since he "thought" she was dead when he tossed her in the sea, and not alive then in some strange, murderer support group mindset, this one detail lets him off the hook. Go figure?
Funny how most people have either disappeared or changed their minds after seeing the tape, but there are a few that will defend this guy until the end of time. Wonder if they think that any murderer is guilty?
imo

[Heyes]

Discovery provided (http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/kalpoemcgraw/020808_DK_Discovery.pdf)


Sooooo was there anything else?
This is just a letter to deepaks original attorney asking for his file.
Looks to me like deepak cannot fulfill the judges orders. Now what?
imo

[HiLife]

In defendng joran I see this often, I'll just use fair's quote as an example here.
Most of us see the monster in joran. His actions and words are that of a callous, cold hearted murderer.
However,
the defenders otherwise deemed "jockstraps" by ortiga, lol, seem to feel that since joran thought she was dead , then heck give the boy a pass.... WTH?

Since he "thought" she was dead when he tossed her in the sea, and not alive then in some strange, murderer support group mindset, this one detail lets him off the hook. Go figure?
Funny how most people have either disappeared or changed their minds after seeing the tape, but there are a few that will defend this guy until the end of time. Wonder if they think that any murderer is guilty?
imo

Your post (lol about the "jockstraps!" and lol about "murderer support group mindset") made me think of your sig line, Heyes -

When somebody tells you nothing is impossible, ask him to dribble a football.
~Author Unknown~

Except that it would say:

When somebody tells you nothing is impossible, ask a sporter supporter to find Joran guilty - even after he confesses!
-HiLife-

:patriot:

imo

[Heyes]

You wish. Joran's confession was big time news. Didn't they say 7 million people watched the DeVries show in the Netherlands? It was big news here, too, even gave the election coverage a run for its money.

Joran has nowhere to hide. Most people do know who he is. He is the guy who left a girl to die/probably raped and murdered her, and then called someone to dispose of her body - without knowing if she was alive or dead.

jmo

Maybe if they denial crowd says it long enough and loud enough it'll make it true!'
lmao!
Bottom line is, if you are aware of current events, then you know who joran the killer is. You are also aware of the corruption in aruba and the fact that joran the killers parents obstructed justice.
The truth hurts!
imo

[Luke Davis]

Sooooo was there anything else?
This is just a letter to deepaks original attorney asking for his file.
Looks to me like deepak cannot fulfill the judges orders. Now what?
imoNobody is reporting on this. It is what it is.


IMO

[Heyes]

snipped for space only
When somebody tells you nothing is impossible, ask a sporter supporter to find Joran guilty - even after he confesses!
-HiLife-

:patriot:

imo

LMAO, so true so true
Remember when we said, geeeez maybe if we could get it on video then they'll believe it????
NOPE!
imo

[Heyes]

Nobody is reporting on this. It is what it is.


IMO

Well a big thank you for finding this at least it's something, right?

[No Nic]

LMAO, so true so true
Remember when we said, geeeez maybe if we could get it on video then they'll believe it????
NOPE!
imo


Taped confession, video of murder....doesn't matter...for some reason that is totally mind boggling, the "sporter supporters" (what's left of them) cannot admit Joran of doing any wrong.

Could be that the real problem is they cannot admit that they were wrong in their support of this POS. :shrug:

imo

[HiLife]

Maybe if they denial crowd says it long enough and loud enough it'll make it true!'
lmao!
Bottom line is, if you are aware of current events, then you know who joran the killer is. You are also aware of the corruption in aruba and the fact that joran the killers parents obstructed justice.
The truth hurts!
imo

Yes, I remember when we naively thought a "video" of the crime would be enough - but nope! STILL not good enough. But I believe it is not good enough for only a few, deluded sporter supporters on the internet. They cannot stand they were so duped by this punk.

Joran has pretty much destroyed his and his family's life. How does his family even go to the corner store without being whispered about behind their backs - or the bank - or their jobs?

Wonder why mommy or daddy haven't flown like the wind to Holland to comfort (robo-rub) the murderer? Maybe they're finally mad at Joran? It's a wonder they haven't finally had enough of his sociopathic ways. So they've unloaded him onto grammy and gramps in Holland? Poor them!

imo

[Heyes]

That won't fly, given the jello shot. IMO she drank herself to death, the stars shifted positions that night and 2 young people were thrown together, one being tipsy, the other intrigued by the jello shot.

And, there is a big question of why she acted out so much in Aruba, given that she had never experienced alcohol or boys before, and why that mother wanted her to experience that type of bacchanalian vacation, when Natalee's main interest, according to Beth, was getting 100% accuracy on her bible quotations. I will always wonder what exactly was said on her call to the mother, why it was that she didn't seem to want to live her life as it had been lived in MB.

As many facelifts and botox injections that she gets to transform her into a different person, she has to live with the idea that she wanted Natalee to be something she was not, which, IMO contributed to placing Natalee on the beach where she had the extreme reaction to extreme drinking. IMO

Here, Hilife, just for you so you don't have to look it up:

"difficult words"
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dictionaries/difficultwords/data/d0001908.html

Ok I've changed my mind. This isn't a *general* vandersloot mantra. This is an **anita vandersloot mantra***.
One: Blame the victim who forced my precious son into murdering her.
Two: Put down Beth because she is just so much darn prettier and skinnier than I am.
MEEEEOOOOOW!
lmao
imo

[HiLife]

Nobody is reporting on this. It is what it is.


IMO

Makes you wonder - what does Deepak have to hide? Remember how his lawyer had said in the beginning of the Dr. Phil case how if they demanded the files, he still would not turn them over?

Strange!

[Heyes]

Yes, I remember when we naively thought a "video" of the crime would be enough - but nope! STILL not good enough. But I believe it is not good enough for only a few, deluded sporter supporters on the internet. They cannot stand they were so duped by this punk.

Joran has pretty much destroyed his and his family's life. How does his family even go to the corner store without being whispered about behind their backs - or the bank - or their jobs?

Wonder why mommy or daddy haven't flown like the wind to Holland to comfort (robo-rub) the murderer? Maybe they're finally mad at Joran? It's a wonder they haven't finally had enough of his sociopathic ways. So they've unloaded him onto grammy and gramps in Holland? Poor them!

imo


Well greta was our example of someone with a huge ego that was duped, the difference is that if she wanted to keep any credibility with her viewers or more to the point a job. She had to admit that she wasn't the greatest judge of charactor that she thought she was. Here on the internet you can maintain your "sporter supporter" (jockstrap). Who would know? I bet in real life they have had to back it down a tad. Wouldn't you think? Otherwise can you imagine what is said about them behind their backs?
Speaking of the parents of the killer, They are in hiding. I'm sure they aren't attending any social functions these days. Now, where they should be is behind bars.
Pity aruba is so corrupt.
I guess they want the murderer off the island but won't go so far as to announcing the parents should follow. But I'm sure they thought that if you make joran a undersirable his parents would get the hint and bail as well. I would imagine they are packing as we type. lol
As far as granny goes, can you imagine? Evidently jorans neighbors in Holland thought he was a nuisance and even called the police on him. Next granny gets him. I doubt she even got a cup of tea down before her home was torn apart by the search that went down. More proof that wherever joran goes pain and destruction will follow.
imo

[Heyes]

Makes you wonder - what does Deepak have to hide? Remember how his lawyer had said in the beginning of the Dr. Phil case how if they demanded the files, he still would not turn them over?

Strange!

also this attorney that had deepaks case that recieved this letter was attained by paulus, IIRC.
I imagine that his current legal team, $$$$$$$$????? has all the same info it's just another deceptive manipulation of the court to try and get this request dropped. More defense bs. IMO

[HiLife]

also this attorney that had deepaks case that recieved this letter was attained by paulus, IIRC.
I imagine that his current legal team, $$$$$$$$????? has all the same info it's just another deceptive manipulation of the court to try and get this request dropped. More defense bs. IMO

I didn't know that! Boy, Paulus sure has his fingers in all the important pies down there! Constantly interfering in the investigation, that one!

You are so right about Aruba's corruption.

imo

[Luke Davis]

Well a big thank you for finding this at least it's something, right?What few comments I can find by experts on the case are very predictable. The progress hearings are scheduled far in the future and it is hard to know what is going on from only a comment by a lawyer.

As far as I know all the documents are at the link above. Time will tell.


IMO

[HiLife]

Well greta was our example of someone with a huge ego that was duped, the difference is that if she wanted to keep any credibility with her viewers or more to the point a job. She had to admit that she wasn't the greatest judge of charactor that she thought she was. Here on the internet you can maintain your "sporter supporter" (jockstrap). Who would know? I bet in real life they have had to back it down a tad. Wouldn't you think? Otherwise can you imagine what is said about them behind their backs?

Speaking of the parents of the killer, They are in hiding. I'm sure they aren't attending any social functions these days. Now, where they should be is behind bars.

Pity aruba is so corrupt.

I guess they want the murderer off the island but won't go so far as to announcing the parents should follow. But I'm sure they thought that if you make joran a undersirable his parents would get the hint and bail as well. I would imagine they are packing as we type. lol

As far as granny goes, can you imagine? Evidently jorans neighbors in Holland thought he was a nuisance and even called the police on him. Next granny gets him. I doubt she even got a cup of tea down before her home was torn apart by the search that went down. More proof that wherever joran goes pain and destruction will follow.
imo

I believe Joran learned a lot of his behavior from his parents - and to me, that means they will not be leaving Aruba, nor do I think they are humbly hiding anywhere. They have no shame.

Look at Anita, the tough guy of the family, actually calling a newspaper to correct rumors about Paulus' alleged son, Lorenzo. Even after losing his judgeship, receiving a humiliating public smackdown and now losing his position on a couple of boards, I bet Paulus is still going to his work everyday, like nothing. No shame.

You're right about Greta being forced to admit her being duped by such an obvious liar punk. She was forced to admit her stupidity. But not the VDS.

When I think they had the b**** to recently publicly say they thought Natalee had run away (stupidly believing what the sporter supporter message boards were feeding them)....they have been paid back in heaps, now.

The real reason Natalee is no longer with us is due to nothing other than their own muderous son.

jmo

[HiLife]

What few comments I can find by experts on the case are very predictable. The progress hearings are scheduled far in the future and it is hard to know what is going on from only a comment by a lawyer.

As far as I know all the documents are at the link above. Time will tell.


IMO
Thanks for always keeping us informed!

BTW, loooved that pic in the off-topic funny thread!! ROFL!!!!

[Heyes]

I believe Joran learned a lot of his behavior from his parents - and to me, that means they will not be leaving Aruba, nor do I think they are humbly hiding anywhere. They have no shame.

Look at Anita, the tough guy of the family, actually calling a newspaper to correct rumors about Paulus' alleged son, Lorenzo. Even after losing his judgeship, receiving a humiliating public smackdown and now losing his position on a couple of boards, I bet Paulus is still going to his work everyday, like nothing. No shame.

You're right about Greta being forced to admit her being duped by such an obvious liar punk. She was forced to admit her stupidity. But not the VDS.

When I think they had the b**** to recently publicly say they thought Natalee had run away (stupidly believing what the sporter supporter message boards were feeding them)....they have been paid back in heaps, now.

The real reason Natalee is no longer with us is due to nothing other than their own muderous son.

jmo

I bet your right! I bet failed judge vandersloot is at work. anita is another creature all together. I imagine she is on the message boards, calling newspapers, talking to lawyers, trying her best to come up with one excuse that maybe, just maybe the public will buy. how long ago where these sorry excuses for parent announcing that Natalee was a run away. Which is such a stupid excuse considering the girl was moving out and going to college anyway. That never made sense, just another vandersloot line of bull.
And they are full of them.
If you want to see something pathetic. Go back and watch anita's interviews. I'm not a violent person but I could just smack that *B* everytime she says Natalee's name. Her finger wagging, superior attitude alone is bad enough but when she starts in on Natalee???....... SMACK!
No wonder joran thinks his sh** doesn't stink!
imo

[HiLife]

I bet your right! I bet failed judge vandersloot is at work. anita is another creature all together. I imagine she is on the message boards, calling newspapers, talking to lawyers, trying her best to come up with one excuse that maybe, just maybe the public will buy. how long ago where these sorry excuses for parent announcing that Natalee was a run away. Which is such a stupid excuse considering the girl was moving out and going to college anyway. That never made sense, just another vandersloot line of bull.
And they are full of them.
If you want to see something pathetic. Go back and watch anita's interviews. I'm not a violent person but I could just smack that *B* everytime she says Natalee's name. Her finger wagging, superior attitude alone is bad enough but when she starts in on Natalee???....... SMACK!
No wonder joran thinks his sh** doesn't stink!

imo

You know, I believe you are right! Never thought about that one before either - his arrogant attitude does come from that frump's finger-wagging superior attitude! She has a lot of nerve! Then she blames the victim - a victim due to her own son!

I do believe what you said before to be the truth......that Aruba was hinting at the VDS to leave the island by declaring their son a "persona non grata." But they obviously still do not know the Van der Sloots. They have no shame, probably feel it is their RIGHT (entitled - another Joran trait) to be on that island and will defend their son to the bitter end.

jmo

[Heyes]

You know, I believe you are right! Never thought about that one before either - his arrogant attitude does come from that frump's finger-wagging superior attitude! She has a lot of nerve! Then she blames the victim - a victim due to her own son!

I do believe what you said before to be the truth......that Aruba was hinting at the VDS to leave the island by declaring their son a "persona non grata." But they obviously still do not know the Van der Sloots. They have no shame, probably feel it is their RIGHT (entitled - another Joran trait) to be on that island and will defend their son to the bitter end.

jmo

How sad is it when the little backwards islands don't even want you?
lmao
Entitled! Bingo. That's why I think crazy anita is working her fingers and phone lines off trying to find a way to manipulate someone to believe the opposite of what we've seen with her son. I noticed a couple of posters that were obviously fans of aruba that would keep mentioning how much class anita had. At the time, after I stopped laughing, I didn't really think about it. Now? I think that is very important to anita. Status and class. Both down the tubes now. I bet she wants that back more than anything. Instead of blaming her husband and son and herself she is the type of nasty that blames the victim and the victims poor mother. There will be a special place in he// for this family. And they thought aruba was hot!
IMO

[ortiga]

Taped confession, video of murder....doesn't matter...for some reason that is totally mind boggling, the "sporter supporters" (what's left of them) cannot admit Joran of doing any wrong.

Could be that the real problem is they cannot admit that they were wrong in their support of this POS. :shrug:

imo

What crime did he confess to? Specifically?

[ortiga]

I believe Joran learned a lot of his behavior from his parents - and to me, that means they will not be leaving Aruba, nor do I think they are humbly hiding anywhere. They have no shame.

Look at Anita, the tough guy of the family, actually calling a newspaper to correct rumors about Paulus' alleged son, Lorenzo. Even after losing his judgeship, receiving a humiliating public smackdown and now losing his position on a couple of boards, I bet Paulus is still going to his work everyday, like nothing. No shame.

You're right about Greta being forced to admit her being duped by such an obvious liar punk. She was forced to admit her stupidity. But not the VDS.

When I think they had the b**** to recently publicly say they thought Natalee had run away (stupidly believing what the sporter supporter message boards were feeding them)....they have been paid back in heaps, now.

The real reason Natalee is no longer with us is due to nothing other than their own muderous son.

jmo

The most likely scenario is that she died on the beach after consuming too much alcohol day in and day out for 4 days. For having a daughter who never drank before in their entire lives, it was a curious choice of vacation for the mother to make. Risky. Very risky.

[fairmaiden]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairmaiden
Hi Grandad ....

Your post is absolutely correct. Joran did NOT admit to "murdering" anyone. I see it posted all over now .... "Natalee was very likely still alive". Joran didn't say THAT either. Joran said very clearly, he thought Natalee was dead !!

<snipped>

JMO







In defendng joran I see this often, I'll just use fair's quote as an example here.
Most of us see the monster in joran. His actions and words are that of a callous, cold hearted murderer.
However,
the defenders otherwise deemed "jockstraps" by ortiga, lol, seem to feel that since joran thought she was dead , then heck give the boy a pass.... WTH?

Since he "thought" she was dead when he tossed her in the sea, and not alive then in some strange, murderer support group mindset, this one detail lets him off the hook. Go figure?
Funny how most people have either disappeared or changed their minds after seeing the tape, but there are a few that will defend this guy until the end of time. Wonder if they think that any murderer is guilty?
imo

Since you're quoting my post, Heyes .... I said no such thing, nor did I infer it !! That's just a silly argument. What on earth would make you think I would give ANYONE a "pass" for dumping someone's body in the water ??

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Sooooo was there anything else?
This is just a letter to deepaks original attorney asking for his file.
Looks to me like deepak cannot fulfill the judges orders. Now what?
imo

Heyes .... I'm curious .... I really can't get anyone to answer this, so I thought you might give me one. IF what was aired on Dr. Phil is proven to be "manipulated", and Deepak did NOT say what Dr. Phil proclaimed he did .... do you think the Kalpoe Bros. are within their rights to sue ??

JMO

[Grandad]

Heyes .... I'm curious .... I really can't get anyone to answer this, so I thought you might give me one. IF what was aired on Dr. Phil is proven to be "manipulated", and Deepak did NOT say what Dr. Phil proclaimed he did .... do you think the Kalpoe Bros. are within their rights to sue ??

JMO


Do you mind if I predict her response, assuming she actually responds without the tap dance with the complicated steps which makes it difficult to follow?

Sure they can sue, but since they ruined their own reputations, they're not entitled to any compensation.

[fairmaiden]

Do you mind if I predict her response, assuming she actually responds without the tap dance with the complicated steps which makes it difficult to follow?

Sure they can sue, but since they ruined their own reputations, they're not entitled to any compensation.

Grandad .... You may very well be right. I have asked that question many times .... not once have I gotten an answer. I wonder if I can attribute the "non-answer" as APPROVING of Dr. Phil's tactics, should it be proven true. You know .... just like me "giving a pass" to Joran dumping Natalee in the water, if THAT proves to be true ?? I often wonder how anyone can come up with statements like that.

JMO

[Heyes]

Do you mind if I predict her response, assuming she actually responds without the tap dance with the complicated steps which makes it difficult to follow?

Sure they can sue, but since they ruined their own reputations, they're not entitled to any compensation.
yawn!

[Heyes]

Grandad .... You may very well be right. I have asked that question many times .... not once have I gotten an answer. I wonder if I can attribute the "non-answer" as APPROVING of Dr. Phil's tactics, should it be proven true. You know .... just like me "giving a pass" to Joran dumping Natalee in the water, if THAT proves to be true ?? I often wonder how anyone can come up with statements like that.

JMO

When didn't I answer your questions? oh well.
yes if the tape was manipulated to have deepak say "did" instead of "didn't", then sure why not sue.
However, I believe Mr. Skeeters, I have researched his reputation and it's steller. deepaks???? not so much.
The hard drive will tell the story. I doubt deepaks words were changed. The only manipulation would be for time. IMO

why do you belive deepak over Mr. Skeeters?
I just don't understand this IUPG attitude when it is only given to proven liars that are suspects. Why isn't Mr. Skeeters given this same benefit of the doubt? hmmmmmmmm
I am not surprised, just curious.
imo

[fairmaiden]

When didn't I answer your questions? oh well.
yes if the tape was manipulated to have deepak say "did" instead of "didn't", then sure why not sue.
However, I believe Mr. Skeeters, I have researched his reputation and it's steller. deepaks???? not so much.
The hard drive will tell the story. I doubt deepaks words were changed. The only manipulation would be for time. IMO

why do you belive deepak over Mr. Skeeters?
I just don't understand this IUPG attitude when it is only given to proven liars that are suspects. Why isn't Mr. Skeeters given this same benefit of the doubt? hmmmmmmmm
I am not surprised, just curious.
imo

Heyes .... You must be aware of the Kalpoe filing, where it outlines the original statements made by Deepak and Skeeter .... then shows what was aired on Dr. Phil. It wasn't a case of changing ONE word .... it was a matter of changing sentences around. Incase you haven't ....

http://www.xs4all.nl/~dugo/kalpoefiling.pdf ((Page 11, IIRC))

I'm sure you must have SEEN what was aired on Dr. Phil though ?? Since you are giving Jamie Skeeter the "benefit of the doubt" .... can you tell me you thought this "interview" was professionally done?? You seem to believe his reputation is stellar .... why do you think he would conduct an interview like that, where Deepak was VERY obviously being taped without his knowledge ?? If THAT was a professional interview by Skeeter .... I would question his ability to conduct a "credible" interview.

I know that you think LYING about something, automatically makes them rapists. I'm sorry Heyes, I can't see that logic at all. I have never thought the Kalpoe Brothers raped Natalee .... I have always thought the tape was "manipulated" for content .... certainly not for time restraints. How long would it have taken Skeeter to say .... "I guess she had sex with all of you", and Deepak to answer .... "she didn't". Why would that have to be edited for time ??

JMO

[No Nic]

When didn't I answer your questions? oh well.
yes if the tape was manipulated to have deepak say "did" instead of "didn't", then sure why not sue.
However, I believe Mr. Skeeters, I have researched his reputation and it's steller. deepaks???? not so much.
The hard drive will tell the story. I doubt deepaks words were changed. The only manipulation would be for time. IMO

why do you belive deepak over Mr. Skeeters?
I just don't understand this IUPG attitude when it is only given to proven liars that are suspects. Why isn't Mr. Skeeters given this same benefit of the doubt? hmmmmmmmm
I am not surprised, just curious.
imo

The answer to this question should be interesting. lol

[fairmaiden]

The answer to this question should be interesting. lol

Are you satisfied with my answer ??

Once it was common knowledge the DFI had deemed the tape had been "manipulated", that pretty much made up my mind for me. I have no reason to doubt them. I believe this is what precipitated Kalpoe to go to court in the FIRST place. I don't believe they took any part in any gangraping.

You DID see the "interview" .... didn't you ??

ETA .... Incidentally, I have no direct knowledge Skeeter altered anything. I have no direct knowledge McGraw did either .... rather I'm sure he HAD someone do it.

JMO

[No Nic]

Are you satisfied with my answer ??

Once it was common knowledge the DFI had deemed the tape had been "manipulated", that pretty much made up my mind for me. I have no reason to doubt them. I believe this is what precipitated Kalpoe to go to court in the FIRST place. I don't believe they took any part in any gangraping.

You DID see the "interview" .... didn't you ??

ETA .... Incidentally, I have no direct knowledge Skeeter altered anything. I have no direct knowledge McGraw did either .... rather I'm sure he HAD someone do it.

JMO


Let's just say your answer didn't surprise me.

Correction, it was "common knowledge" that we were told by *spokespersons* in Aruba that the DFI deemed the tape "manipulated". To my knowledge no such determination has been released by the DFI. Am I wrong?

I, myself, have posted links (in the past) that show experts here in the US did not agree with that determination. Are they credible experts? I don't know, that is why I am waiting to see how this lawsuit pans out before I can state that it was "manipulated" in the fashion that you and the spokespersons have deemed.

imo

[Grandad]

<snip>
However, I believe Mr. Skeeters, I have researched his reputation and it's steller.

<snip>

Mr. Skeeters had a stellar reputation only on his website. By his own admission he administered a polygraph exam on Junior, the derelict who lived at the landfill, through an interpreter.

This alone would negate any credibility he ever had

[ortiga]

Mr. Skeeters had a stellar reputation only on his website. By his own admission he administered a polygraph exam on Junior, the derelict who lived at the landfill, through an interpreter.

This alone would negate any credibility he ever had

Must have been funny from Junior's POV too.

[Grandad]

Must have been funny from Junior's POV too.

I'd find it easier to believe Junior was so strung out he didn't know what was going on.

[Heyes]

The answer to this question should be interesting. lol

Never got it!
:shrug:

[Heyes]

Let's just say your answer didn't surprise me.

Correction, it was "common knowledge" that we were told by *spokespersons* in Aruba that the DFI deemed the tape "manipulated". To my knowledge no such determination has been released by the DFI. Am I wrong?

I, myself, have posted links (in the past) that show experts here in the US did not agree with that determination. Are they credible experts? I don't know, that is why I am waiting to see how this lawsuit pans out before I can state that it was "manipulated" in the fashion that you and the spokespersons have deemed.

imo
:eek: How could you? That means that you are being "open-minded and fair by assuming that they're IUPG!
How could you!
We only allow IUPG for aruba spokesholes and aruban suspects. sheeeeesh!
imo

[ortiga]

Joran won't be arrested again because his made up story doesn't match the known facts in the case. (Like he said). I'd give a link but it's in Dutch.

IMO

[Heyes]

Joran won't be arrested again because his made up story doesn't match the known facts in the case. (Like he said). I'd give a link but it's in Dutch.

IMO

I really didn't expect an arrest.
I do expect more violent acts by joran. I just hope he will be arrested for something else before he causes another innocent victims death and disposal.
imo

[ortiga]

I really didn't expect an arrest.
I do expect more violent acts by joran. I just hope he will be arrested for something else before he causes another innocent victims death and disposal.
imo


He didn't cause any death at all that we know of, and OM says that the story he gave about the disposal was contradicted by known facts.

But I guess you can still hate him because Natalee was attracted to him.

[Heyes]

He didn't cause any death at all that we know of, and OM says that the story he gave about the disposal was contradicted by known facts.

But I guess you can still hate him because Natalee was attracted to him.

Your last line is funny! Did a 5 year old think of it?
I of course disagree. So does 99% of the people that saw your boy joran as he really is.
I would think at this point defending this cold blooded murderer would be embarrassing, but, whatever floats your boat!
Hey it looks like OJ just beat up his girlfriend. He needs your support!

IMO

[ortiga]

Your last line is funny! Did a 5 year old think of it?
I of course disagree. So does 99% of the people that saw your boy joran as he really is.
I would think at this point defending this cold blooded murderer would be embarrassing, but, whatever floats your boat!
Hey it looks like OJ just beat up his girlfriend. He needs your support!

IMO


Looks like it, huh? Or, did she trip and fall in front of witnesses at a gas station?

[Heyes]

Looks like it, huh? Or, did she trip and fall in front of witnesses at a gas station?


There ya go....good start.
Read about her injuries. Read oj's comments.
Just like joran, oj has already placed the blame on the victim.
These murderers always have one thing in common. They blame everybody else. Never take responsiblity for anything.

joran did think he was being compared to OJ months ago. I bet he loved that. Seems right up his ally. Especially now that we know his new goals in life are to drop out of school and hook up with criminal types. Or at least he thought it was a criminal......
imo

[Heyes]

http://www.radionetherlands.nl/currentaffairs/080205-vandersloot-devries-abc

WOW! looks like there's more than 5 or 6 people that believe joran drugged, raped, killed and disposed of Natalee!
read the comments!

Here's just one:
I am Dutch, and many people are angry at joran, he shows no remorse, he is a ruthless murderer and should be in jail. He is the shame of Aruba, and he has no respect for Natalee at all. I wish the Holloway family all the strength of the world.
This is one of the milder reactions.
According to this website there have never been so many reactions to a story.Looks like joran might want to move to the moon. No one on this planet wants him anywhere near their neighborhood, let alone daughter.
IMO




Thanks Peaches!

[Luke Davis]

I can't read Dutch but I think this says Beth is going to sue again.

Dutch article (http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3311688/_Joran_geplukt_door_Beth__.html)

AMSTERDAM - Beth Twitty, Natalees moeder, bereidt een civiele rechtzaak voor tegen Joran van der Sloot.

[Grandad]

I can't read Dutch but I think this says Beth is going to sue again.

Dutch article (http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/3311688/_Joran_geplukt_door_Beth__.html)

AMSTERDAM - Beth Twitty, Natalees moeder, bereidt een civiele rechtzaak voor tegen Joran van der Sloot.

I could be wrong, but I thought it was established that Beth has no standing to file a wrongful death suit on Natalee's behalf under Dutch law.

[ortiga]

I could be wrong, but I thought it was established that Beth has no standing to file a wrongful death suit on Natalee's behalf under Dutch law.


It might be something other than WD. Apparently part of the suit will address the suffering she was forced to undergo by hearing Joran's words on the PDV show and having to react right there on TV, by golly. Which, of course, she chose to do. And, Dave didn't.

She did establish the suffering via her tears. Even though she knew about what he said beforehand, according to DV and according to Beth. So, she may win money via her practiced acting on TV.

[Luke Davis]

I could be wrong, but I thought it was established that Beth has no standing to file a wrongful death suit on Natalee's behalf under Dutch law.
My understnding is she has hired a top lawyer who is an expert at such things. But time will tell.

Perhaps it is not a wrongful death suit but something else.

IMO

[Xainia]

It might be something other than WD. Apparently part of the suit will address the suffering she was forced to undergo by hearing Joran's words on the PDV show and having to react right there on TV, by golly. Which, of course, she chose to do. And, Dave didn't.

She did establish the suffering via her tears. Even though she knew about what he said beforehand, according to DV and according to Beth. So, she may win money via her practiced acting on TV.

Who forced Beth to watch?

1. Joran was secretly taped.
It was not his idea or plan to make his words spoken in private a public matter.

2. It was Peter who showed Beth the video. Peter engineered the secret tapeing and making the privately spoken words public.

I don't get how Beth can legally blame Joran for something over which he had no control.

[ortiga]

Who forced Beth to watch?

1. Joran was secretly taped.
It was not his idea or plan to make his words spoken in private a public matter.

2. It was Peter who showed Beth the video. Peter engineered the secret tapeing and making the privately spoken words public.

I don't get how Beth can legally blame Joran for something over which he had no control.

How does she make a living? She has said she does not draw a salary from the "non profit" (said so in the book, IIRC).

Earlier she said she and Jug were a 2 income family, and it would be hard to live on just one income, thus she said she got months of donations of leave time from other teachers in MB. And, Jug filed for divorce a few days after she filed her last of the 2 previous civil suits.

She may not work now, except for doing shows like DV. I don't know if she was paid, or if the "finders" for the talk shows pay her. Possibly one of the compensations for appearing on the DV show, and to emote again (for the cameras) in reaction to material she already knew existed, was an intro to the lawyer, who probably also sees publicity for her as a potential source of big money.

The suit she may file in Holland may spur donations from the Dutch people who may feel sorry for her. Since she can't get anything out of the VDS, and probably won't try the Kalpoes again, and I don't think another "hope for Natalee" book will sell, what's she supposed to do next to get money?

IMO

To sum it up: publicity

[Grandad]

Who forced Beth to watch?

1. Joran was secretly taped.
It was not his idea or plan to make his words spoken in private a public matter.

2. It was Peter who showed Beth the video. Peter engineered the secret tapeing and making the privately spoken words public.

I don't get how Beth can legally blame Joran for something over which he had no control.


This suit, if it's ever filed, will probably go the way of the other two.

Maybe we've got Beth all wrong. She obviously is a woman who craves attention. Maybe all she wants is to get in the Guinness Book of World Records.

They could start a new category. "Most Bogus Lawsuits Filed by a Grieving Mother."

[Grandad]

How does she make a living? She has said she does not draw a salary from the "non profit" (said so in the book, IIRC).

Earlier she said she and Jug were a 2 income family, and it would be hard to live on just one income, thus she said she got months of donations of leave time from other teachers in MB. And, Jug filed for divorce a few days after she filed her last of the 2 previous civil suits.

She may not work now, except for doing shows like DV. I don't know if she was paid, or if the "finders" for the talk shows pay her. Possibly one of the compensations for appearing on the DV show, and to emote again (for the cameras) in reaction to material she already knew existed, was an intro to the lawyer, who probably also sees publicity for her as a potential source of big money.

The suit she may file in Holland may spur donations from the Dutch people who may feel sorry for her. Since she can't get anything out of the VDS, and probably won't try the Kalpoes again, and I don't think another "hope for Natalee" book will sell, what's she supposed to do next to get money?

IMO

To sum it up: publicity

Although the "Search and Rescue" trust fund was represented as being set up to cover the expense of searching for Natalee, the terms of the trust were never made public. It's altogether possible the trust allowed Beth to use that money for absolutely anything she chose, which means she could never be charged with fraudulent conversion.

I don't believe there was any paid for advertising touting the fund or asking for donations, so it's doubtful any minor crime was committed there.

I think any lawsuit brought against Beth for anything regarding the trust would fail, simply by virtue of the fact it was incumbent upon the donor to check the terms of the fund before making any contribution.

When the trust was established it was such an emotionally charged event most people who donated did so without ever thinking about asking any questions.

I'll admit I was skeptical from the very beginning. I made two e-mail inquiries, both of which were ignored. I'm sure you've already figured out what I did, or didn't do.

[Luke Davis]

Who forced Beth to watch?

1. Joran was secretly taped.
It was not his idea or plan to make his words spoken in private a public matter.

2. It was Peter who showed Beth the video. Peter engineered the secret tapeing and making the privately spoken words public.

I don't get how Beth can legally blame Joran for something over which he had no control.

This is just a repeat of the Deepak situation, where Beth tried to sue for Deepak admitting on international tv that he participated in a gangrape of Natalee. But now Beth is testing the Dutch law.


IMO

[Luke Davis]

Although the "Search and Rescue" trust fund was represented as being set up to cover the expense of searching for Natalee, the terms of the trust were never made public. It's altogether possible the trust allowed Beth to use that money for absolutely anything she chose, which means she could never be charged with fraudulent conversion.

I don't believe there was any paid for advertising touting the fund or asking for donations, so it's doubtful any minor crime was committed there.

I think any lawsuit brought against Beth for anything regarding the trust would fail, simply by virtue of the fact it was incumbent upon the donor to check the terms of the fund before making any contribution.

When the trust was established it was such an emotionally charged event most people who donated did so without ever thinking about asking any questions.

I'll admit I was skeptical from the very beginning. I made two e-mail inquiries, both of which were ignored. I'm sure you've already figured out what I did, or didn't do.

I agree with you as far as individuals but I wonder about companies, if they didn't have a simple contract? IIRC Amazon and Ebay both made donations for every item sold. Then there were companies selling bracelets, cups, jewelry, candles, clothes, etc. I wonder if "Natalee Holloway" was ever trademarked?


IMO

[Grandad]

I agree with you as far as individuals but I wonder about companies, if they didn't have a simple contract? IIRC Amazon and Ebay both made donations for every item sold. Then there were companies selling bracelets, cups, jewelry, candles, clothes, etc. I wonder if "Natalee Holloway" was ever trademarked?


IMO

I'm not sure I understand you.

If EBay and Amazon entered into agreements with Beth to pay commissions to the trust, it was there responsibility to ask for a copy of the trust document, if their participation was based on their desire to have the commissions used for a specific purpose.

I seriously doubt this was important to them. They most likely looked at it as an opportunity to merchandise hot items..

They couldn't be held responsible for what any commissions were used for.

[Heyes]

You guys really are funny!
Now your trying (obviously with little success) to find what lawsuit would work on this grieving mother?
But Hey, let the murdering vandersloot slide right on by. lol
Strange but totally predictable.
Good luck with that!
imo

[fairmaiden]

You guys really are funny!
Now your trying (obviously with little success) to find what lawsuit would work on this grieving mother?
But Hey, let the murdering vandersloot slide right on by. lol
Strange but totally predictable.
Good luck with that!
imo

I'm not sure what the deal is with you, Heyes .... Luke posted a link which is of "general interest" in this case.

You talk about things being "predictable" ??? Are you not able to discuss anything else BUT the "murdering vandersloot", IYO ??

JMO

[SaraSidle]

You guys really are funny!
Now your trying (obviously with little success) to find what lawsuit would work on this grieving mother?
But Hey, let the murdering vandersloot slide right on by. lol
Strange but totally predictable.
Good luck with that!
imo

for what it matters I am right with you Heyes

[Heyes]

I'm not sure what the deal is with you, Heyes .... Luke posted a link which is of "general interest" in this case.

You talk about things being "predictable" ??? Are you not able to discuss anything else BUT the "murdering vandersloot", IYO ??

JMO

Predictable that joran supporters are doing their very best to try and dig up a lawsuit, any lawsuit, against a grieving mother.
My comment was not regarding Luke.
imo

[Heyes]

for what it matters I am right with you Heyes

It matters!
Each one of us matters,
Millions of us matter.
:patriot:

[Heyes]

The answers that show paulus and jorans guilt lie within paulus's computer!

Per Art Wood on Kimberly Guifoyle's show over the weekend on Fox:
“In the first week of June Michael Dompig, who is chief Dompig’s young son, told Dave Holloway that Paulus van der Sloot borrowed a friends boat.”
… They found that on the day that Natalee disappeared that Paulus visited some websites looking at the effects of alcohol and drugs on a body. That’s a bomb shell. (Art Wood)

Guess even paulus wanted to make sure Natalee died of the drugs,(joran slipped her), vs assuming his bad temper struck again. Maybe somewhere on planet vandersloot this is more acceptable behavior. :shrug:
imo

[Grandad]

The answers that show paulus and jorans guilt lie within paulus's computer!

Per Art Wood on Kimberly Guifoyle's show over the weekend on Fox:
“In the first week of June Michael Dompig, who is chief Dompig’s young son, told Dave Holloway that Paulus van der Sloot borrowed a friends boat.”
… They found that on the day that Natalee disappeared that Paulus visited some websites looking at the effects of alcohol and drugs on a body. That’s a bomb shell. (Art Wood)

Guess even paulus wanted to make sure Natalee died of the drugs,(joran slipped her), vs assuming his bad temper struck again. Maybe somewhere on planet vandersloot this is more acceptable behavior. :shrug:
imo

Oh yeah, the credible Art Wood. The "ex-Secret Service" guy who thinkas J2K can be extradited to the U.S. as soon as Aruba closes its investigation.

[Xainia]

This is just a repeat of the Deepak situation, where Beth tried to sue for Deepak admitting on international tv that he participated in a gangrape of Natalee. But now Beth is testing the Dutch law.


IMO

I don't think the two events are similar. Deepak knew he was being taped.

Joran in this instance was having a private conversation. He did not know his words would become public and he certainly isn't the one who made them public.

If anything it is Peter imo who caused Beth the stress etc.

[terrysdoor]

I don't think the two events are similar. Deepak knew he was being taped.

Joran in this instance was having a private conversation. He did not know his words would become public and he certainly isn't the one who made them public.

If anything it is Peter imo who caused Beth the stress etc.

Good morning all .......... I did not realize Deepak new he was being taped.I thought Mr. Skeeters was secretly trying to befriend Deepak in order to get him to admit to all three having sex with Natalee?But with so much in this case being contradicted who knows IMO:shrug:

[ortiga]

Good morning all .......... I did not realize Deepak new he was being taped.I thought Mr. Skeeters was secretly trying to befriend Deepak in order to get him to admit to all three having sex with Natalee?But with so much in this case being contradicted who knows IMO:shrug:


IIRC Deepak did not know he was being taped. Otherwise why would Skeeter have focused the camera on the back of Deepak's head and the ceiling fan?

This case is sure turning out to be a commercialization of Natalee by the mother and the minions. Now I hear that scarface is "writing" a book.

Poor Natalee.

:(

[fairmaiden]

I don't think the two events are similar. Deepak knew he was being taped.

Joran in this instance was having a private conversation. He did not know his words would become public and he certainly isn't the one who made them public.

If anything it is Peter imo who caused Beth the stress etc.

Good morning Xainia ....

Thinking about what was aired on Dr. Phil .... I'm not sure Deepak DID know he was being taped. It was obvious, to me at least, that the camera was hidden somewhere. We saw either the back or side of Deepak's head, and a ceiling fan !!! It was definitely the most unprofessional piece of "taping" that I've ever seen !!

JMO

[fairmaiden]

IIRC Deepak did not know he was being taped. Otherwise why would Skeeter have focused the camera on the back of Deepak's head and the ceiling fan?

This case is sure turning out to be a commercialization of Natalee by the mother and the minions. Now I hear that scarface is "writing" a book.

Poor Natalee.

:(

Morning ortiga ....

I agree with both you and terry here, I should have read further before adding my post. I don't believe Deepak knew he was being taped.

JMO

[Grandad]

<snip>
Now I hear that scarface is "writing" a book.

Poor Natalee.




This is as low as anyone can go. Patrick and DeVries did absolutely nothing to further the interest of justice. Actually, they're efforts more like thwarted justice by skewing the truth.

It's unfortunate no one can force them to publish transcripts of the entire 20 hours of tape, at their expense.

Transcripts of planning sessions of their undercover operation would probably be interesting reading also.

[fairmaiden]

This is as low as anyone can go. Patrick and DeVries did absolutely nothing to further the interest of justice. Actually, they're efforts more like thwarted justice by skewing the truth.

It's unfortunate no one can force them to publish transcripts of the entire 20 hours of tape, at their expense.

Transcripts of planning sessions of their undercover operation would probably be interesting reading also.

Morning Grandad .... It reminds me of something someone might read in one of those tabloid papers. "I, Peter DeVries, have SOLVED Natalee Holloway's Disappearance". I agree with you, I believe that's the FARTHEST thing from what he did. All he has done, it seems to me, is leave more questions to be answered. He hasn't really "SOLVED" anything!!

JMO

[Heyes]

This is as low as anyone can go. Patrick and DeVries did absolutely nothing to further the interest of justice. Actually, they're efforts more like thwarted justice by skewing the truth.

It's unfortunate no one can force them to publish transcripts of the entire 20 hours of tape, at their expense.

Transcripts of planning sessions of their undercover operation would probably be interesting reading also.

Riiiiight!
I keep forgetting. On planet vandersloot, Art Wood, DeVries, Patrick...... Anyone who dares to show what kind of people joran and his parents are, are the bad guys. :rolleyes:
imo
Skewing the truth... lol lol. It must really be difficult when you've put all your eggs in jorans basket, to understand that joran is what he is, cold, brutal, evil killer!
Thanks to Peter and Patrick what many of us belived about joran has been shown to be true.
Beth has been validated.
Poor joran is now suicidal, no wait, he's too scared to leave his house. lol lol
We have not heard the last from the vandersloots. They'll regroup and try another attempt at convincing the world that their little monster is really a victim of circumstance. Darn that Natalee and Beth and Dave and Tim Miller and Mr. Skeeter and Mr. Woods. and...and...and.....
Can't wait to hear the next bucket of lies the vandersloots try out! It won't work of course, but they are that pathetic!

Just reviewed the vandersloot tape with greta, anita is such an actress, good thing she took those drama classes, she was ALMOST convincing. Oh I'm a teacher, I would know if my little sporter took drugs, drinks etc.......lol lol
everyone on that island knew. give me a break! lol lol lol
imo

[terrysdoor]

Morning Grandad .... It reminds me of something someone might read in one of those tabloid papers. "I, Peter DeVries, have SOLVED Natalee Holloway's Disappearance". I agree with you, I believe that's the FARTHEST thing from what he did. All he has done, it seems to me, is leave more questions to be answered. He hasn't really "SOLVED" anything!!

JMO

Fair I could not agree more IMO Devries done exactly what Dr. Phil done it was promotion for ratings.I can`t understand what if anything that was learned from this taping.Because IMO Joran has yet to tell the truth and we still really don`t know what happened to Natalee of course this is JMO

[Heyes]

Morning Grandad .... It reminds me of something someone might read in one of those tabloid papers. "I, Peter DeVries, have SOLVED Natalee Holloway's Disappearance". I agree with you, I believe that's the FARTHEST thing from what he did. All he has done, it seems to me, is leave more questions to be answered. He hasn't really "SOLVED" anything!!

JMO

Well we did get to see what a cold, nasty bast**d joran is. The exact type that would be guilty of drugging, raping and murdering a girl.
Did he come off as anything other than that to you?

imo

[ortiga]

Well we did get to see what a cold, nasty bast**d joran is. The exact type that would be guilty of drugging, raping and murdering a girl.
Did he come off as anything other than that to you?

imo


But there is no evidence that Natalee was drugged, raped, or murdered. So what difference does it make how he comes off?

I don't know why Twitty and people like you seem to want the worst to have happened to Natalee, without any proof of such as. Why would that make you happy.

[fairmaiden]

Well we did get to see what a cold, nasty bast**d joran is. The exact type that would be guilty of drugging, raping and murdering a girl.
Did he come off as anything other than that to you?

imo

Heyes .... I've thought about this "confession" of Joran's since I saw it. There is nothing "admirable" about Joran Vandersloot. I don't know what "type" drugs someone, rapes and murders her. I just read the other day about the priest who was carrying cocaine in his "robes", and distributing it to some of his parishioners. I wouldn't think HE would be the "type" of person to do that.

Joran said nothing about "raping" Natalee .... nothing about "murdering" her. So, I would imagine, as far as you're concerned, he wasn't telling the truth !!

As I said .... there are more questions floating out there now than there were BEFORE Peter DeVries "SOLVED" this case. That, to me, was nothing but a ploy for ratings.

Do you think he has SOLVED the case ??

JMO

[fairmaiden]

But there is no evidence that Natalee was drugged, raped, or murdered. So what difference does it make how he comes off?

I don't know why Twitty and people like you seem to want the worst to have happened to Natalee, without any proof of such as. Why would that make you happy.

That's the WHOLE problem, ortiga . Those who believed he was guilty of kidnap, rape and murder, from the beginning, have NOT changed their views. What's funny to me is .... you see it all the time .... "Joran FINALLY tells the truth" !! WHAT truth ?? Those same people don't believe what he said anyway !!! Yet his "confession" is touted as him "finally telling the truth" .... :shrug:

JMO

[Heyes]

But there is no evidence that Natalee was drugged, raped, or murdered. So what difference does it make how he comes off?

I don't know why Twitty and people like you seem to want the worst to have happened to Natalee, without any proof of such as. Why would that make you happy.

What would make me happy is for joran and his father, oh heck even his mother to be locked in a prison so they can't hurt any other human being again.
What would make me happy is to see people like vanderstraaten, jacobs,Smid, dompig locked in the same cell as joran.
But, alas we are left with social justice.
Have you ever seen the movie Star Chamber?
Works for me!
imo

[Heyes]

Heyes .... I've thought about this "confession" of Joran's since I saw it. There is nothing "admirable" about Joran Vandersloot. I don't know what "type" drugs someone, rapes and murders her. I just read the other day about the priest who was carrying cocaine in his "robes", and distributing it to some of his parishioners. I wouldn't think HE would be the "type" of person to do that.

Joran said nothing about "raping" Natalee .... nothing about "murdering" her. So, I would imagine, as far as you're concerned, he wasn't telling the truth !!

As I said .... there are more questions floating out there now than there were BEFORE Peter DeVries "SOLVED" this case. That, to me, was nothing but a ploy for ratings.

Do you think he has SOLVED the case ??
JMO



Not all the fine details, but he's got it right!
joran, paulus, cover up!
Why would paulus be looking up drugs and alcohol reactions the next day? Why would he call for the bus to pick up joran at lorenzos the next day? Why was joran sleeping at school the next day? Why did paulus lead Beth and company away from the house on a wild goose chase instead of demanding joran come home right away? Why did he want everyone away from that house. Why?
Why would anyone defend this monster after seeing DeVries tape? Mimicking Natalee as she died and not loosing a night of sleep.
Dumping Natalee not knowing if maybe she was still alive is murder. Still want to defend a person like that? I would think a persons energy could be put to better use. but.....:shrug:
IMO

[Heyes]

But there is no evidence that Natalee was drugged, raped, or murdered. So what difference does it make how he comes off?

I don't know why Twitty and people like you seem to want the worst to have happened to Natalee, without any proof of such as. Why would that make you happy.

Evidently, you still think she just floated out to sea.
:rolleyes:

[fairmaiden]

Not all the fine details, but he's got it right!
joran, paulus, cover up!
Why would paulus be looking up drugs and alcohol reactions the next day? Why would he call for the bus to pick up joran at lorenzos the next day? Why was joran sleeping at school the next day? Why did paulus lead Beth and company away from the house on a wild goose chase instead of demanding joran come home right away? Why did he want everyone away from that house. Why?
Why would anyone defend this monster after seeing DeVries tape? Mimicking Natalee as she died and not loosing a night of sleep.
Dumping Natalee not knowing if maybe she was still alive is murder. Still want to defend a person like that? I would think a persons energy could be put to better use. but.....:shrug:
IMO

Heyes .... I'm not defending anyone. I think Joran is a despicable human being, just from what I DID see. However, I still have questions. You are saying "he's got it right", despite what you say about him not having the details right !! That just doesn't make sense to me. Are you satisfied ((obviously you are)) with something YOU believe to be untrue ?? That just fascinates me.

JMO

[ortiga]

Evidently, you still think she just floated out to sea.
:rolleyes:

There is not a scintilla of proof that she was drugged, kidnapped, raped and or murdered, although you seem to like to dwell on those remote possibilities.

[Grandad]

<snip>
Beth has been validated.

<snip>


Validated????

Beth has been proved to be a money grubbing liar who has no conscience, no credibility and no class.

Is that your idea of validated?

[No Nic]

Validated????

Beth has been proved to be a money grubbing liar who has no conscience, no credibility and no class.

Is that your idea of validated?

You have perfectly described the VDS family.

Wonder how their lawsuits are coming along? Will they still sue Aruba for Joran's *wrongful* detainment and get tha BIG fat check they have been dreaming about?

I believe Joran has turned that dream into their biggest nightmare. **Thank you** Joran for proving to the world the lack of conscience, creditibility and class of you and your parents.

[HiLife]

You have perfectly described the VDS family.

Wonder how their lawsuits are coming along? Will they still sue Aruba for Joran's *wrongful* detainment and get tha BIG fat check they have been dreaming about?

I believe Joran has turned that dream into their biggest nightmare. **Thank you** Joran for proving to the world the lack of conscience, creditibility and class of you and your parents.

Awwww. No love bowls for the Van der Sloots? :(

[HiLife]

Evidently, you still think she just floated out to sea.
:rolleyes:

You forgot - "'Benignly' floated out to sea" and "no one is to blame." ;)

[Luke Davis]

More smoke than fire. Every new revelation just makes for more questions. Part of the fascination for me, like a giant puzzle.

Short of finding Natalee's body, doesn't appear to be a case. Hopefully, a civil case or two will make it to court.


IMO

[Luke Davis]

Patrick (http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/02/19/holloway_figure_to_be_questioned_in_aruba/9269/)


ORANJESTAD, Aruba, Feb. 19 (UPI) -- Aruba's justice department has summoned Patrick van der Eem for questioning as a potential witness in the Natalee Holloway investigation.

Van der Eem is the 34-year-old Dutchman who was able to befriend Joran van der Sloot and secretly record him giving alleged details of the U.S. student's mysterious disappearance in May 2005 in Aruba. Holloway, then 18, was on a high school graduation trip to the Caribbean island.

The Netherlands news agency ANP Tuesday said Van der Eem's appearance was mandatory and could land him in custody.

He told ANP he would cooperate while in Aruba where he is vacationing and meeting with the author of a book about the Holloway case.

"I have nothing to hide, but I also know how to keep my mouth shut," he said. "But I am on the prosecution's side, all they have to do is phone me and I'll be there."

[HiLife]

Patrick (http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/02/19/holloway_figure_to_be_questioned_in_aruba/9269/)

The wheels turn s-l-o-w-l-y on Aruba, don't they?

[Luke Davis]

I found this on a blog so regard it as rumor but interesting.



Daury Rodriguez, named as the accomplice in the dumping of Natalee Holloway's body by Joran van der Sloot is suing van der Sloot. 'We used to play soccer together. I wouldn't call him a friend, especially not now. I don't even have a boat." His lawyer Chris Lejuez, says van der Sloot's confession was very damaging to his client's reputation and that they want his name cleared of any connection with the case.


BLOG (http://www.equivocationnation.com/)

[Luke Davis]

The wheels turn s-l-o-w-l-y on Aruba, don't they?Patrick just signed a book contract, this won't hurt.

:hat:


IMO

[No Nic]

I found this on a blog so regard it as rumor but interesting.



Daury Rodriguez, named as the accomplice in the dumping of Natalee Holloway's body by Joran van der Sloot is suing van der Sloot. 'We used to play soccer together. I wouldn't call him a friend, especially not now. I don't even have a boat." His lawyer Chris Lejuez, says van der Sloot's confession was very damaging to his client's reputation and that they want his name cleared of any connection with the case.


BLOG (http://www.equivocationnation.com/)

How I hope this is true and that it is only the beginning of the hellish life Joran van der Sloot has created for himself. He should not be allowed to enjoy one second of the rest of his life, since he made the decision to end Natalee's.

imo

[Grandad]

Patrick (http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_News/2008/02/19/holloway_figure_to_be_questioned_in_aruba/9269/)

Patrick could wind up in custody?

He may think he's on the side of prosecution now, but he may not be after the interview.

Legal experts in the Netherlands said DeVries could be charged with criminal offenses.

Vigilante justice just isn't in the best interest of the public. This episode will probably result in hundreds of dollars of investigation costs and wind up with nothing.

[Grandad]

I found this on a blog so regard it as rumor but interesting.



Daury Rodriguez, named as the accomplice in the dumping of Natalee Holloway's body by Joran van der Sloot is suing van der Sloot. 'We used to play soccer together. I wouldn't call him a friend, especially not now. I don't even have a boat." His lawyer Chris Lejuez, says van der Sloot's confession was very damaging to his client's reputation and that they want his name cleared of any connection with the case.


BLOG (http://www.equivocationnation.com/)


Didn't Joran already say publicly this was not the Daury he spoke of.

This case is just chock full of people who seek validation, but sue for money damages.

[Grandad]

I found this on a blog so regard it as rumor but interesting.



Daury Rodriguez, named as the accomplice in the dumping of Natalee Holloway's body by Joran van der Sloot is suing van der Sloot. 'We used to play soccer together. I wouldn't call him a friend, especially not now. I don't even have a boat." His lawyer Chris Lejuez, says van der Sloot's confession was very damaging to his client's reputation and that they want his name cleared of any connection with the case.


BLOG (http://www.equivocationnation.com/)

Isn't Chris LeJeuz an Aruban attorney? Shouldn't Daury be suing in the Netherlands?

[Grandad]

Patrick just signed a book contract, this won't hurt.

:hat:


IMO

The book may not get published if the contract contains a morals clause.

[Luke Davis]

Isn't Chris LeJeuz an Aruban attorney? Shouldn't Daury be suing in the Netherlands?IIRC she represented one of the security guards.

:hat:

[Xainia]

IIRC Deepak did not know he was being taped. Otherwise why would Skeeter have focused the camera on the back of Deepak's head and the ceiling fan?

This case is sure turning out to be a commercialization of Natalee by the mother and the minions. Now I hear that scarface is "writing" a book.

Poor Natalee.

:(

I must have it wrong.. I thought Deepak knew about being voice recorded but not video taped..

[ortiga]

I must have it wrong.. I thought Deepak knew about being voice recorded but not video taped..


What I do remember is that after the fact Skeeter said that he told Deepak in front of some other people, that future conversations may be recorded, something like that. But IIRC skeeter never proved that little disclaimer, he said that he had that agreement on tape but never showed it, never said who the "witnesses" were. Grandad or Luke might remember the details. But I never heard Skeeter even try to spin it that Deepak knew that specific conversation was being recorded or taped.

[terrysdoor]

More smoke than fire. Every new revelation just makes for more questions. Part of the fascination for me, like a giant puzzle.

Short of finding Natalee's body, doesn't appear to be a case. Hopefully, a civil case or two will make it to court.


IMO

Luke you are so right everytime someone.... anyone who has opened their mouth about this case speaks it just raises more questions.I don`t think we will ever get the truth of just exactly what did happen to Natalee IMO

[fairmaiden]

Luke you are so right everytime someone.... anyone who has opened their mouth about this case speaks it just raises more questions.I don`t think we will ever get the truth of just exactly what did happen to Natalee IMO

Good morning, terry ....

Well .... according to some .... Joran FINALLY told the truth about what happened to Natalee when he was secretly recorded. The only thing is .... those same people don't believe SOME of what he had to say !! You know, he apparently left out the fact that he drugged her .... kidnapped her .... raped her .... then murdered her !! Oh .... and that Paulus was the one who disposed of Natalee, who, according to them, was most likely still alive !! :shrug:

JMO

[terrysdoor]

Good morning, terry ....

Well .... according to some .... Joran FINALLY told the truth about what happened to Natalee when he was secretly recorded. The only thing is .... those same people don't believe SOME of what he had to say !! You know, he apparently left out the fact that he drugged her .... kidnapped her .... raped her .... then murdered her !! Oh .... and that Paulus was the one who disposed of Natalee, who, according to them, was most likely still alive !! :shrug:

JMO

Good morning, fair see thats what i dont understand why should we believe anything Joran says he has lied so much and to me in his secret recording he was just saying things to this guy for fun making a joke of it and to me he is disgusting.But i still dont think he proved or solved anything just made things more confussing.

[Heyes]

There is not a scintilla of proof that she was drugged, kidnapped, raped and or murdered, although you seem to like to dwell on those remote possibilities.


"Remote possibilities"? Remote? LMAO!

[Heyes]

You forgot - "'Benignly' floated out to sea" and "no one is to blame." ;)


Huh, I thought Beth was to blame. She flew in early and chased her daughter into the sea so Natalee wouldn't tell any family *secrets*. No?

[fairmaiden]

Good morning, fair see thats what i dont understand why should we believe anything Joran says he has lied so much and to me in his secret recording he was just saying things to this guy for fun making a joke of it and to me he is disgusting.But i still dont think he proved or solved anything just made things more confussing.

Well, I certainly don't think Peter DeVries SOLVED anything either, terry. If anything, he has just left more questions which need to be answered.

People have called Joran a "pathological liar" for the past almost 3 years. Those same people have NEVER found Joran to be credible .... in fact, many/most of them STILL don't. I'm convinced their views haven't changed in 3 years !! Some believe Joran kidnapped, raped, and murdered Natalee .... and they STILL believe that, despite what he "confessed" to.

JMO

[Heyes]

Well, I certainly don't think Peter DeVries SOLVED anything either, terry. If anything, he has just left more questions which need to be answered.

People have called Joran a "pathological liar" for the past almost 3 years. Those same people have NEVER found Joran to be credible .... in fact, many/most of them STILL don't. I'm convinced their views haven't changed in 3 years !! Some believe Joran kidnapped, raped, and murdered Natalee .... and they STILL believe that, despite what he "confessed" to.

JMO


I'm curious, you had said after viewing joran's little confession that you think he IS involved in Natalee's "disappearance". What does "involvement" mean to you?

[fairmaiden]

I'm curious, you had said after viewing joran's little confession that you think he IS involved in Natalee's "disappearance". What does "involvement" mean to you?

I believe he's either involved in, or KNOWS what happened to Natalee. How?? I still have no idea, Heyes. I personally agree with those who called him a pathological liar. I think he CONSTANTLY lies. To determine NOW, that he made a "true confession", just doesn't work for me. But then, you don't believe what he said in his confession either .... do you?? Most people don't !! It's just disingenuous to say Joran is FINALLY telling the truth, when hardly anyone believes what he said !! I asked you earlier about your thoughts on Peter DeVries SOLVING this case. Your words were something to the effect .... "well, he's got it right, apart from some of the details". Those "details" are things you have believed from the very beginning .... the kidnap, the rape, the murder. Joran didn't even allude to ANY of these things.

I believe Joran is a despicable person .... but then, contrary to what others seem to believe , I've NEVER had any admiration for Joran.

JMO

[Heyes]

I believe he's either involved in, or KNOWS what happened to Natalee. How?? I still have no idea, Heyes. I personally agree with those who called him a pathological liar. I think he CONSTANTLY lies. To determine NOW, that he made a "true confession", just doesn't work for me. But then, you don't believe what he said in his confession either .... do you?? Most people don't !! It's just disingenuous to say Joran is FINALLY telling the truth, when hardly anyone believes what he said !! I asked you earlier about your thoughts on Peter DeVries SOLVING this case. Your words were something to the effect .... "well, he's got it right, apart from some of the details". Those "details" are things you have believed from the very beginning .... the kidnap, the rape, the murder. Joran didn't even allude to ANY of these things.

I believe Joran is a despicable person .... but then, contrary to what others seem to believe , I've NEVER had any admiration for Joran.

JMO

So what kind of involvement in your mind is it?
Do you believe that he actually disposed her? Called someone to dispose her? Didn't have anything to do with the disposal? If you believe he's involved however in her disposal, the next logical question is..why? Lets just start there.

[Chocoholic]

So what kind of involvement in your mind is it?
Do you believe that he actually disposed her? Called someone to dispose her? Didn't have anything to do with the disposal? If you believe he's involved however in her disposal, the next logical question is..why? Lets just start there.

http://www.drwill.com/wp-content/uploads/barneyfife.jpg

Tie her up Barney, shoot her before she might give an answer that you don't like. :rolleyes:

[Heyes]

http://www.drwill.com/wp-content/uploads/barneyfife.jpg

Tie her up Barney, shoot her before she might give an answer that you don't like. :rolleyes:

Well, well,
welcome back choco!

[fairmaiden]

http://www.drwill.com/wp-content/uploads/barneyfife.jpg

Tie her up Barney, shoot her before she might give an answer that you don't like. :rolleyes:

LOL Choco .... :seeya:

[fairmaiden]

So what kind of involvement in your mind is it?
Do you believe that he actually disposed her? Called someone to dispose her? Didn't have anything to do with the disposal? If you believe he's involved however in her disposal, the next logical question is..why? Lets just start there.

Heyes .... I would like to know what's on the 20 hours of the tape we didn't hear. It sort of reminds me of the 2 1/2 hr. interview with Deepak, and only using a few seconds to supposedly make their point.

He SAID he called his friend to help him dispose of Natalee's body. He SAID they didn't have sex, but shortly after that, said he was lucky they didn't find her body, because they would possibly find semen in/on her. He THEN said he didn't take any part of the disposal .... his friend "with a boat" took care of it.

To tell you the truth, I think I have more questions NOW than I did before. You, on the other hand, have always felt Natalee was drugged .... kidnapped .... raped .... murdered. He said NONE of those things in his supposed "confession".

I keep saying you can't have it both ways .... you ((not you specifically, but in general)) can't say that either "Joran is FINALLY telling the truth" .... or .... "Joran is finally coming clean", when you think he is lying !! You can't pick and choose the things you DON'T believe, because they don't fit what you've felt all along. If you're going to do that .... then Joran is NOT finally telling the truth .... he is NOT finally coming clean.

I can't think of ANY rational reason for disposing of Natalee's body. If what Joran said is true .... there WOULD be no reason to. All he would have had to do was call for help. But we really have no idea whether he was telling the truth to Patrick ((according to you, he wasn't)), or .... if he is the pathological liar you have claimed from the beginning.

JMO

[Grandad]

<snip>
I can't think of ANY rational reason for disposing of Natalee's body.

<snip>

We've all heard the ridiculous speculation that Paulus disposed of Natalee's body, or at least arranged for it's disposal.

We've also heard the rumors of Paulus having influence over the entire population of Aruba, Curacao and the Netherlands.

Frankly, I don't understand how any reasonable adult could believe those things, but I can believe Joran might believe his father was more influential than he actually was.

I don't doubt that if anything happened to Natalee while she was in Joran's company, whether he was at fault or not, Joran would have called his father. I also believe if this happened Paulus would simply have called ALE.

At one point either Paulus or Anita said if they thought Joran was guilty of anything they would take him to the police station themselves, and I have no reason to doubt that they would.

[ortiga]

We've all heard the ridiculous speculation that Paulus disposed of Natalee's body, or at least arranged for it's disposal.

We've also heard the rumors of Paulus having influence over the entire population of Aruba, Curacao and the Netherlands.

Frankly, I don't understand how any reasonable adult could believe those things, but I can believe Joran might believe his father was more influential than he actually was.

I don't doubt that if anything happened to Natalee while she was in Joran's company, whether he was at fault or not, Joran would have called his father. I also believe if this happened Paulus would simply have called ALE.

At one point either Paulus or Anita said if they thought Joran was guilty of anything they would take him to the police station themselves, and I have no reason to doubt that they would.


You know that Paulus, he lives just illegally on the land.

[Heyes]

Heyes .... I would like to know what's on the 20 hours of the tape we didn't hear. It sort of reminds me of the 2 1/2 hr. interview with Deepak, and only using a few seconds to supposedly make their point.

He SAID he called his friend to help him dispose of Natalee's body. He SAID they didn't have sex, but shortly after that, said he was lucky they didn't find her body, because they would possibly find semen in/on her. He THEN said he didn't take any part of the disposal .... his friend "with a boat" took care of it.

To tell you the truth, I think I have more questions NOW than I did before. You, on the other hand, have always felt Natalee was drugged .... kidnapped .... raped .... murdered. He said NONE of those things in his supposed "confession".



I keep saying you can't have it both ways .... you ((not you specifically, but in general)) can't say that either "Joran is FINALLY telling the truth" .... or .... "Joran is finally coming clean", when you think he is lying !! You can't pick and choose the things you DON'T believe, because they don't fit what you've felt all along. If you're going to do that .... then Joran is NOT finally telling the truth .... he is NOT finally coming clean.

I can't think of ANY rational reason for disposing of Natalee's body. If what Joran said is true .... there WOULD be no reason to. All he would have had to do was call for help. But we really have no idea whether he was telling the truth to Patrick ((according to you, he wasn't)), or .... if he is the pathological liar you have claimed from the beginning.

JMO
soooooo, you don't think he was involved with Natalee's death? I'm sorry I just don't understand how he can be involved but the next logical step is avoided. That being, joran is responsible for her death. I see no other explanation as to why joran would tell the dumping of the victim story. Other than he is the one who raped and killed her or drugged and raped her..... A trial would be great to sort out the details, but that won't ever happen. Do you believe there is a cover up? I don't see this as black and white. Add the circumstantial evidence. all of it along with his statements and you have a date rape gone wrong.
I have rethought the pathological liar statement. I don't think so anymore. I think he uses lies to cover his a**. I think he's been a problem child for years and has learned how to lie to stay out of trouble. His mother being beyond gullible. He would of course lie about his activities with Natalee that night, I mean how would he tell a "tough guy" that he had to drug the girl to get what he wanted? I bet he convienently left that out. Otherwise his *we were making out and then suddenly she just started shaking* doesn't make sense.
imo

[Heyes]

We've all heard the ridiculous speculation that Paulus disposed of Natalee's body, or at least arranged for it's disposal.

We've also heard the rumors of Paulus having influence over the entire population of Aruba, Curacao and the Netherlands.

Frankly, I don't understand how any reasonable adult could believe those things, but I can believe Joran might believe his father was more influential than he actually was.

I don't doubt that if anything happened to Natalee while she was in Joran's company, whether he was at fault or not, Joran would have called his father. I also believe if this happened Paulus would simply have called ALE.

At one point either Paulus or Anita said if they thought Joran was guilty of anything they would take him to the police station themselves, and I have no reason to doubt that they would.

paulus and anita didn't even make their sporter go out and look for "the girl" when he "misplaced" her! Not one of them got off their butt and joined in the search. Not one vandersloot, not one kalpoe. Interesting huh?

Like they would call the ALE! lmao

[Heyes]

John Q. Kelly: May 31st Joran was the first person interviewed by Jacobs who was taking statements. Every police report subsequent to that. The statements made by Deepak, made by Satish, made by Beth that day we have them all. There is no statement from Joran until June 9th.

Greta: Something is funny. Something is not quite right. I would like to see our State Department get a little busy on this one. (Fox: On The Record 2/20/08)

[Grandad]

paulus and anita didn't even make their sporter go out and look for "the girl" when he "misplaced" her! Not one of them got off their butt and joined in the search. Not one vandersloot, not one kalpoe. Interesting huh?

Like they would call the ALE! lmao

I realize this question is going to take some serious thought, but I'm sure given enough time you should come up with a logical answer.

If your daughter was missing, would you want anyone suspected of being responsible for her disappearance looking for her?

[Grandad]

John Q. Kelly: May 31st Joran was the first person interviewed by Jacobs who was taking statements. Every police report subsequent to that. The statements made by Deepak, made by Satish, made by Beth that day we have them all. There is no statement from Joran until June 9th.

Greta: Something is funny. Something is not quite right. I would like to see our State Department get a little busy on this one. (Fox: On The Record 2/20/08)


Why would the police give any statement made by any witness or any suspect to anyone other than that person's attorney?

Can you imagine the liability they would open themselves to?

If Kelly or his clients have any statement made by anyone other than Kelly's clients, they were obtained illegally.

[Heyes]

Interesting article,

http://www.boycottwatch.org/misc/aruba12.htm

In general, Americans are keeping away from Aruba , at least in numbers that are hurting the Aruban economy. Boycott Watch predicts Americans will continue to boycott Aruba if Yoran Van der Sloot does not receive a long prison sentence.

[Heyes]

I realize this question is going to take some serious thought, but I'm sure given enough time you should come up with a logical answer.

If your daughter was missing, would you want anyone suspected of being responsible for her disappearance looking for her?

If joran had a decent mother, she would have grabbed joran by the ears and dragged his butt straight to Beth and made sure he was of help.
But since mommy and daddy knew, (given his past exploits) that their son was knee deep in Natalee's disappearance, they had no problem with his keeping his normal activities, like gambling, casino hopping, etc. Heaven forbid they would help this poor family that was frantic with worry.

http://www.boycottwatch.org/misc/aruba12.htm
Regarding the current mood in Aruba, we have reports that the Van der Sloot home has been vandalized and Yoran's bicycle, his reported primary method of transportation, has been destroyed. Arbans are reportedly taking their frustration over the loss of tens of millions of tourism dollars out on the Van der Sloot family.

Looks like the people in aruba aren't fond of the vandersloots choices either!]
ha ha ha good!





Oh and grandad,, your sarcasm is noted, not very clever of you, but noted.
:D

IMO of course!

[Grandad]

You know that Paulus, he lives just illegally on the land.

Not that it makes any difference, but I think she used the word "lawlessly."

It made me think she was accusing him of being a cattle rustler, for some reason.

[Grandad]

If joran had a decent mother, she would have grabbed joran by the ears and dragged his butt straight to Beth and made sure he was of help.
But since mommy and daddy knew, (given his past exploits) that their son was knee deep in Natalee's disappearance, they had no problem with his keeping his normal activities, like gambling, casino hopping, etc. Heaven forbid they would help this poor family that was frantic with worry.

http://www.boycottwatch.org/misc/aruba12.htm
Regarding the current mood in Aruba, we have reports that the Van der Sloot home has been vandalized and Yoran's bicycle, his reported primary method of transportation, has been destroyed. Arbans are reportedly taking their frustration over the loss of tens of millions of tourism dollars out on the Van der Sloot family.

Looks like the people in aruba aren't fond of the vandersloots choices either!]
ha ha ha good!





Oh and grandad,, your sarcasm is noted, not very clever of you, but noted.
:D

IMO of course!

Apparently you didn't give the question enough thought.

[Heyes]

Why would the police give any statement made by any witness or any suspect to anyone other than that person's attorney?

Can you imagine the liability they would open themselves to?

If Kelly or his clients have any statement made by anyone other than Kelly's clients, they were obtained illegally.


Why did the sg's attorney and the kalpoe's attorney mention that they had each others statements, just not jorans???

corruption???? Cover up???
Yup!
imo

[Heyes]

Apparently you didn't give the question enough thought.


Hows this...
If I was Beth I would have greatly appreciated seeing anita come waddling up dragging joran by the ear asking if they could help. Better?

[Grandad]

Did anyone see the promo for NBC's Dateline this Friday?

It says a friend of Natalee's is speaking out for the first time.

From the few seconds she's on camera I couldn't identify her as being anyone who's been interviewed on TV before.

[Grandad]

Hows this...
If I was Beth I would have greatly appreciated seeing anita come waddling up dragging joran by the ear asking if they could help. Better?

I don't believe my question had anything to do with what you might think if you were Beth.

I warned you, it might take some serious thought to come up with a logical answer.

[Grandad]

Why did the sg's attorney and the kalpoe's attorney mention that they had each others statements, just not jorans???

corruption???? Cover up???
Yup!
imo


I have no idea why any of them said what they said, but again, LE doesn't pass witness and suspect statements around like bus schedules.

[Luke Davis]

paulus and anita didn't even make their sporter go out and look for "the girl" when he "misplaced" her! Not one of them got off their butt and joined in the search. Not one vandersloot, not one kalpoe. Interesting huh?

Like they would call the ALE! lmaoIt would be a very bad thing for a suspect to find a victim. Totally, ruin the investigation. With the thousands looking I certainly would want possible suspects looking for a victim.

IMO

[fairmaiden]

I realize this question is going to take some serious thought, but I'm sure given enough time you should come up with a logical answer.

If your daughter was missing, would you want anyone suspected of being responsible for her disappearance looking for her?

You know, Grandad .... every time I see that point raised, I think the same thing. They were IMMEDIATELY people of interest !! I would ask Heyes the same question .... would you actually want a person of interest in your daughter's disappearance, searching for her ??

JMO

[Heyes]

You know, Grandad .... every time I see that point raised, I think the same thing. They were IMMEDIATELY people of interest !! I would ask Heyes the same question .... would you actually want a person of interest in your daughter's disappearance, searching for her ??

JMO

So the only possible thing joran could do to help in this situation is search?
How about hanging some posters? How about doing something, anything other than go back to a casino?

[Heyes]

I have no idea why any of them said what they said, but again, LE doesn't pass witness and suspect statements around like bus schedules.

I thought it was strange that they received each others statements but not jorans. Evidently so did they.
So maybe not bus schedules, but obviously those involved as suspects received copies of other suspects statements. Well, all except jorans. Bet his statement, that just magicaly poofed, has a little something about Natalee shaking or having a seizure.
But of course, I'm sure on planet vandersloot there is a logical explanation. :rolleyes:

[Luke Davis]

So the only possible thing joran could do to help in this situation is search?
How about hanging some posters? How about doing something, anything other than go back to a casino?I really doubt Beth would have welcomed such help. Wasn't she putting posters up at Joran's school indicating he was a bad guy?

Probably Joran would have just dumped the posters in the trash.


IMO

[fairmaiden]

soooooo, you don't think he was involved with Natalee's death? I'm sorry I just don't understand how he can be involved but the next logical step is avoided. That being, joran is responsible for her death. I see no other explanation as to why joran would tell the dumping of the victim story. Other than he is the one who raped and killed her or drugged and raped her..... A trial would be great to sort out the details, but that won't ever happen. Do you believe there is a cover up? I don't see this as black and white. Add the circumstantial evidence. all of it along with his statements and you have a date rape gone wrong.
I have rethought the pathological liar statement. I don't think so anymore. I think he uses lies to cover his a**. I think he's been a problem child for years and has learned how to lie to stay out of trouble. His mother being beyond gullible. He would of course lie about his activities with Natalee that night, I mean how would he tell a "tough guy" that he had to drug the girl to get what he wanted? I bet he convienently left that out. Otherwise his *we were making out and then suddenly she just started shaking* doesn't make sense.
imo

I remember when the "dumping" story came out .... Joran did it himself .... no wait, he called a "friend", and they BOTH dumped her body .... nope .... he called a friend and the FRIEND did it all by himself .... NONE of those could be possible because Paulus dumped Natalee's body. In the ONE story about Natalee's body being dumped .... there were many possible scenarios, that I know of!! Just in that one "detail". Joran CLEARLY gave the impression he thought Natalee was dead, and that she died accidentally. NOW, the "confession" has morphed into him not knowing she was dead, and she very possibly was still alive !!

I'm so much different than you are, Heyes. If there is any case which BEGS questions .... this is it!! You have believed from the very beginning, that Natalee was kidnapped, drugged, raped, then murdered, and that Paulus disposed of her body. You've never deviated from that .... so what is LOGICAL to me is .... you have taken Joran's "confession" .... disregarded those things you believe are untrue because they DON'T fit what you have thought all along.

From your last paragraph regarding whether or not Joran is a pathological liar, you have made a couple of assumptions, which are certainly not factual. You are assuming he drugged Natalee. I don't see any evidence of that at all. He was certainly running his mouth off .... he told the "tough guy" a lot .... don't you think he would have admitted the drugging, if it were true ?? It was my impression when I watched the video .... Joran wants to impress this "tough guy".

Do I believe there was a coverup ?? In short, the answer is .... no. This happened almost 3 years ago .... I think if there was any coverup in existence .... SOMEONE would have talked by now. I don't consider PVDS in the position of "power" that you do. I don't see any reason to protect Joran Vandersloot.

JMO

[Heyes]

I really doubt Beth would have welcomed such help. Wasn't she putting posters up at Joran's school indicating he was a bad guy?

Probably Joran would have just dumped the posters in the trash.


IMO
After the initial meeting with joran, of course Beth wouldn't want his help. Had joran actually been a decent human being none of this would have happened in the first place. My point is the parents didn't even attempt to help Beth. Their actions in all this tells me they were well aware joran was involved from the beginning. I would think if they truely thought joran was innocent they would have reached out somehow to help. Instead what we witnessed was the blame campaign, the anita show, then after awhile, paulus one man stand up act, while anita looked lovingly on. It really was sickening. No help. just whining about how thier lives were ruined. Nothing they did remotely looked like the parents of an innocent man. Reminded me so much of jackie and lee peterson. Denial at its finest.

imo

[fairmaiden]

So the only possible thing joran could do to help in this situation is search?
How about hanging some posters? How about doing something, anything other than go back to a casino?

Heyes .... If you remember correctly, the American Press SWARMED that Island. Can you imagine what kind of circus this would have been ?? Everyone knew now who the suspects were. It just doesn't make any sense that people of interest are going to be walking around the Island hanging posters or anything else !!

JMO

[Luke Davis]

After the initial meeting with joran, of course Beth wouldn't want his help. Had joran actually been a decent human being none of this would have happened in the first place. My point is the parents didn't even attempt to help Beth. Their actions in all this tells me they were well aware joran was involved from the beginning. I would think if they truely thought joran was innocent they would have reached out somehow to help. Instead what we witnessed was the blame campaign, the anita show, then after awhile, paulus one man stand up act, while anita looked lovingly on. It really was sickening. No help. just whining about how thier lives were ruined. Nothing they did remotely looked like the parents of an innocent man. Reminded me so much of jackie and lee peterson. Denial at its finest.

imo

And we see what good it did for Jackie and Lee's son to help.:flamemad:

[Luke Davis]

Did anyone see the promo for NBC's Dateline this Friday?

It says a friend of Natalee's is speaking out for the first time.

From the few seconds she's on camera I couldn't identify her as being anyone who's been interviewed on TV before.

NBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23261368/)

February 20, 2008 – As new information is heating up the Natalee Holloway case, "Dateline" Friday premieres with an exclusive behind-the-scenes look deep inside the investigation and continuing search for her body. The hour-long broadcast, reported on by Chris Hansen, includes an exclusive interview with a friend who was with Natalee the night she disappeared who is speaking out for the first time, both of Natalee's parents and the leader of the search party. The report will air at 10 p.m. ET.

[fairmaiden]

After the initial meeting with joran, of course Beth wouldn't want his help. Had joran actually been a decent human being none of this would have happened in the first place. My point is the parents didn't even attempt to help Beth. Their actions in all this tells me they were well aware joran was involved from the beginning. I would think if they truely thought joran was innocent they would have reached out somehow to help. Instead what we witnessed was the blame campaign, the anita show, then after awhile, paulus one man stand up act, while anita looked lovingly on. It really was sickening. No help. just whining about how thier lives were ruined. Nothing they did remotely looked like the parents of an innocent man. Reminded me so much of jackie and lee peterson. Denial at its finest.

imo

Heyes .... I honestly don't know WHAT I would do, if one of my kids were suspected of kidnap, rape and murder. Would I support him ?? Very likely. Would I try to find out the truth ? Absolutely !! Would I know that my son WAS telling me the truth ?? I would hope so.

Lets face it .... There lives ARE ruined !! Just like I can't even IMAGINE what it must be like to be Jackie Peterson.

You talk about the "blame game". You have "blamed" the Vandersloots from the outset.

JMO

[Heyes]

I remember when the "dumping" story came out .... Joran did it himself .... no wait, he called a "friend", and they BOTH dumped her body .... nope .... he called a friend and the FRIEND did it all by himself .... NONE of those could be possible because Paulus dumped Natalee's body. In the ONE story about Natalee's body being dumped .... there were many possible scenarios, that I know of!! Just in that one "detail". Joran CLEARLY gave the impression he thought Natalee was dead, and that she died accidentally. NOW, the "confession" has morphed into him not knowing she was dead, and she very possibly was still alive !!

I'm so much different than you are, Heyes. If there is any case which BEGS questions .... this is it!! You have believed from the very beginning, that Natalee was kidnapped, drugged, raped, then murdered, and that Paulus disposed of her body. You've never deviated from that .... so what is LOGICAL to me is .... you have taken Joran's "confession" .... disregarded those things you believe are untrue because they DON'T fit what you have thought all along.

From your last paragraph regarding whether or not Joran is a pathological liar, you have made a couple of assumptions, which are certainly not factual. You are assuming he drugged Natalee. I don't see any evidence of that at all. He was certainly running his mouth off .... he told the "tough guy" a lot .... don't you think he would have admitted the drugging, if it were true ?? It was my impression when I watched the video .... Joran wants to impress this "tough guy".

Do I believe there was a coverup ?? In short, the answer is .... no. This happened almost 3 years ago .... I think if there was any coverup in existence .... SOMEONE would have talked by now. I don't consider PVDS in the position of "power" that you do. I don't see any reason to protect Joran Vandersloot.

JMO

I speculate, I discuss.
I feel strong in my opinion according to all the evidence presented that Natalee became a target. The scenario supports this. The arriving a half hour before closing, hitting 2 bars to pay for and hand Natalee the drink. The kalpoes just hanging waiting for joran to be ready to leave. All the stories, all the statements. None which point to anything but invovement. The main fact that Natalee has never been seen again. All adds up. I don't get why there is still a handful of people that just don't see it. Those with agendas I understand. But those that really don't have one??????????????? It's all the puzzle pieces. there are a few missing. For instance, did she die of the drug/alcohol mix? Was she strangled? Was she beaten? It goes on and on. all we know for sure is joran was there, the kalpoes were there. Highly likely paulus was there. They all lied and Natalee is missing. It's all the puzzle pieces Fair, they all lead back to j2k and paulus. No matter which direction you go. There is nothing but j2k and paulus.

imo

[Heyes]

Heyes .... If you remember correctly, the American Press SWARMED that Island. Can you imagine what kind of circus this would have been ?? Everyone knew now who the suspects were. It just doesn't make any sense that people of interest are going to be walking around the Island hanging posters or anything else !!

JMO

The next day Fair, the kid was in a casino. The press hadn't arrived yet.
And the sg's were taking the fall for a few more days. he was busy perfecting his lies and gambling. Perfect!

[Heyes]

Heyes .... I honestly don't know WHAT I would do, if one of my kids were suspected of kidnap, rape and murder. Would I support him ?? Very likely. Would I try to find out the truth ? Absolutely !! Would I know that my son WAS telling me the truth ?? I would hope so.

Lets face it .... There lives ARE ruined !! Just like I can't even IMAGINE what it must be like to be Jackie Peterson.

You talk about the "blame game". You have "blamed" the Vandersloots from the outset.

JMO


You betcha!
My blame is directed at the correct people, j2k, paulus, and anita!
I have no problem with it. They're all guilty as hell in this nightmare.
I would like to add.....vanderstraaten, jacobs and dompig. I'm sure there are a few others but these, IMO the main guys who railroaded this investigation from the beginning.
imo

[fairmaiden]

I speculate, I discuss.
I feel strong in my opinion according to all the evidence presented that Natalee became a target. The scenario supports this. The arriving a half hour before closing, hitting 2 bars to pay for and hand Natalee the drink. The kalpoes just hanging waiting for joran to be ready to leave. All the stories, all the statements. None which point to anything but invovement. The main fact that Natalee has never been seen again. All adds up. I don't get why there is still a handful of people that just don't see it. Those with agendas I understand. But those that really don't have one??????????????? It's all the puzzle pieces. there are a few missing. For instance, did she die of the drug/alcohol mix? Was she strangled? Was she beaten? It goes on and on. all we know for sure is joran was there, the kalpoes were there. Highly likely paulus was there. They all lied and Natalee is missing. It's all the puzzle pieces Fair, they all lead back to j2k and paulus. No matter which direction you go. There is nothing but j2k and paulus.


imo

What evidence have you SEEN regarding this case ??

Again .... You are assuming she was raped and murdered. I don't assume that . YOU are thinking about the date rape drug .... the strangulation .... the beating. If I am to believe ANYTHING Joran says .... he doesn't indicate the Kalpoes were there when she allegedly died .... YOU are assuming that, because you've assumed it from the beginning.

It would be the LEAST logical thing in my mind, that Paulus would dispose of Natalee's body. But that's just me .

If we are to have the TRUTH, Heyes .... then all of the "details" need to be correct.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

The next day Fair, the kid was in a casino. The press hadn't arrived yet.
And the sg's were taking the fall for a few more days. he was busy perfecting his lies and gambling. Perfect!

Well, I have to admit .... my recollections of the very beginnings of this case might have faded a little. I know their names were made public by Beth. It was very soon afterwards that the press swarmed the Island.

JMO

[ortiga]

Not that it makes any difference, but I think she used the word "lawlessly."

It made me think she was accusing him of being a cattle rustler, for some reason.

lol thanks for the correction.

[ortiga]

The next day Fair, the kid was in a casino. The press hadn't arrived yet.
And the sg's were taking the fall for a few more days. he was busy perfecting his lies and gambling. Perfect!


You might want to review your time line there

[ortiga]

What evidence have you SEEN regarding this case ??

Again .... You are assuming she was raped and murdered. I don't assume that . YOU are thinking about the date rape drug .... the strangulation .... the beating. If I am to believe ANYTHING Joran says .... he doesn't indicate the Kalpoes were there when she allegedly died .... YOU are assuming that, because you've assumed it from the beginning.

It would be the LEAST logical thing in my mind, that Paulus would dispose of Natalee's body. But that's just me .

If we are to have the TRUTH, Heyes .... then all of the "details" need to be correct.

JMO

Heyes, and Twitty, wouldn't be happy if Natalee wasn't drugged, raped, and murdered. I understand why Twitty pushes that angle, because of donations and the chance to get on TV with her newest alterations, but I don't understand a messageboarder wanting the worst to have happened to Natalee, without a scintilla of proof that anything like that happened.

Poor Natalee.

:(

[Grandad]

Heyes, and Twitty, wouldn't be happy if Natalee wasn't drugged, raped, and murdered. I understand why Twitty pushes that angle, because of donations and the chance to get on TV with her newest alterations, but I don't understand a messageboarder wanting the worst to have happened to Natalee, without a scintilla of proof that anything like that happened.

Poor Natalee.

:(

When I first read the term "paid poster" on another board, I actually laughed, but as time passed and posts became more and more outrageous, I no longer laugh at the concept.

[Luke Davis]

When I first read the term "paid poster" on another board, I actually laughed, but as time passed and posts became more and more outrageous, I no longer laugh at the concept.There are paid readers for sure.

IMO

[cassidy]

There are paid readers for sure.

IMO

Where can I sign up?

[SukiJane]

Heyes, and Twitty, wouldn't be happy if Natalee wasn't drugged, raped, and murdered. I understand why Twitty pushes that angle, because of donations and the chance to get on TV with her newest alterations, but I don't understand a messageboarder wanting the worst to have happened to Natalee, without a scintilla of proof that anything like that happened.

Poor Natalee.

:(

What are you talking about? The worst did happen to Natalee...she died, and Dr. Joran decided he did all he could do to save her...you know like "shaking the B****", and talking to her. Then instead of leaving her which most low lifes would do, he sunk to a cold hearted monster level and had to dispose of her, because ya know he would have been in "deep sh*t" if the body would have been found.

I agree with you on one point...Poor Natalee, to have spent her last moments on earth with this piece of crap!!

jmo

[Heyes]

What evidence have you SEEN regarding this case ??

Again .... You are assuming she was raped and murdered. I don't assume that . YOU are thinking about the date rape drug .... the strangulation .... the beating. If I am to believe ANYTHING Joran says .... he doesn't indicate the Kalpoes were there when she allegedly died .... YOU are assuming that, because you've assumed it from the beginning.

It would be the LEAST logical thing in my mind, that Paulus would dispose of Natalee's body. But that's just me .

If we are to have the TRUTH, Heyes .... then all of the "details" need to be correct.

JMO

so you see none of the circumstantial evidence? Take the kalpoes, you don't think they're involved even with statements like. If they find the girl they'll find the ****? Not curious about them cleaning their car in the middle of the night? Why did they say to joran, "your own father"??? I think I'm glad your not a detective. How do you think they solve crimes? Do they wait for the video? Lots of circumstantial evidence here, TONS! If you question why whenever you turn on the television or radio, and Natalee's story is being discussed you see and hear every single lawyer, detective, show host connect the dots and come up with the same thing many of us have been saying here. Maybe it's time to look closer at the circumstantial evidendence.
I have a hard time believing that you don't see all the connections. You think joran is a bad person but you just can't take it that last step. Yet there is no other suspect, none!
You don't see any corruption out of aruba?
Fascinating!
The TRUTH is out there, joran is guilty of harming Natalee. Do you wonder why your view is in the minority these days? Even the arubans and Dutch now know he is a murderer. They are not being shy about it. IMO

Maybe you never actually have a firm opinion of someone's guilt untill they've been tried and convicted. In that case why even bother to be on a message board until after the trial?

IMO

[Heyes]

Heyes, and Twitty, wouldn't be happy if Natalee wasn't drugged, raped, and murdered. I understand why Twitty pushes that angle, because of donations and the chance to get on TV with her newest alterations, but I don't understand a messageboarder wanting the worst to have happened to Natalee, without a scintilla of proof that anything like that happened.

Poor Natalee.

:(

Kinda like ortiga and joran want you to believe that he's a good little sporter who doesn't have a nasty bone in his body. Natalee simply floated out to sea!
Or
It's all Beths fault!

You really should check out the news in the last couple of months. It seems that the joran supporters have vanished! Well, of course there is still a couple. Even Charlie Manson has a couple! lol
Maybe you should have joran over for dinner, serve up some wine. What a fine date he would make for one of your daughters or nieces, don't ya think?
:rolleyes:
IMO

[ortiga]

What are you talking about? The worst did happen to Natalee...she died, and Dr. Joran decided he did all he could do to save her...you know like "shaking the B****", and talking to her. Then instead of leaving her which most low lifes would do, he sunk to a cold hearted monster level and had to dispose of her, because ya know he would have been in "deep sh*t" if the body would have been found.

I agree with you on one point...Poor Natalee, to have spent her last moments on earth with this piece of crap!!

jmo

You don't how she died, if she did die. The most logical explanation based on her own chosen behavior is that she died due to excessive drinking. The drinking has been documented by her own friends. And Twitty's partner in "made for TV cry on demand drama", De Vries, said that Natalee had drugs. If so, she most likely took them. Why would anyone go around with drugs in possession without partaking and probably passing them around?

I said poor Natalee because I can't imagine wanting the world, in the case of Twitty, or wanting messageboarders to dwell on invented stories about horrid things that were supposedly done to Natalee.

I do not understand how someone could say, paraphrased, "can you imagine the <<horror>> she felt as she saw the 3 men descend on her to gang rape her and......"

I think that is sick. To get your jollies, or to make money feeling "horror" over something salacious for which there is no hint of even happening.

IMO

Why would a mother want that? Except for trying to get donations or get "face time" on TV.

Thank goodness that no one in my family, my extended family, or inside my circle of friends would do that to their loved ones.

[Heyes]

When I first read the term "paid poster" on another board, I actually laughed, but as time passed and posts became more and more outrageous, I no longer laugh at the concept.


Paid posters? really? how much are ya getting? Is it worth it?
You couldn't pay me enough to support a person like joran. Good thing your anonymous!
out·ra·geous /aʊtˈreɪdʒəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[out-rey-juhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. of the nature of or involving gross injury or wrong: an outrageous slander.
2. grossly offensive to the sense of right or decency: outrageous behavior; an outrageous remark.
3. passing reasonable bounds; intolerable or shocking: an outrageous price.
4. violent in action or temper.
5. highly unusual or unconventional; extravagant; remarkable: a child of the most outrageous precocity; a fancy dive performed with outrageous ease.

OUTRAGEOUS perfectly describes joran vandersloot!
Grossly offensive to the sense of right or decency.
Intolerable
Shocking
Violent in action or temper etc.

[Heyes]

What are you talking about? The worst did happen to Natalee...she died, and Dr. Joran decided he did all he could do to save her...you know like "shaking the B****", and talking to her. Then instead of leaving her which most low lifes would do, he sunk to a cold hearted monster level and had to dispose of her, because ya know he would have been in "deep sh*t" if the body would have been found.

I agree with you on one point...Poor Natalee, to have spent her last moments on earth with this piece of crap!!

jmo

At least I was coupled with Beth Twitty! I take that as a compliment.
If a poster prefers to be looped with joran, so be it! Maybe it takes one to know one, ya know?
Amazing!
Dr. joran, lol lol
Think he's still hiding under grandmas skirt? lmao
Murder a girl then hide at grandmas. What a guy!
IMO

[SukiJane]

Kinda like ortiga and joran want you to believe that he's a good little sporter who doesn't have a nasty bone in his body. Natalee simply floated out to sea!
Or
It's all Beths fault!

You really should check out the news in the last couple of months. It seems that the joran supporters have vanished! Well, of course there is still a couple. Even Charlie Manson has a couple! lol
Maybe you should have joran over for dinner, serve up some wine. What a fine date he would make for one of your daughters or nieces, don't ya think?
:rolleyes:
IMO

LOL...Charles Manson followers...oh that's a good one, and really a great point to bring up regarding the support these young man has received...it seems very cultish.

I wonder if all these diehard Joran followers will shave their heads and carve x's in their foreheads, going around chanting things in support of their sporter. It really does seem to be sort of the same mentality, in my opinion.

[Heyes]

snipped


Thank goodness that no one in my family, my extended family, or inside my circle of friends would do that to their loved ones.


Unless one of them went out with joran and never returned......
Can you imagine if joran tried to shake the B**** and that B**** was your daughter? I bet someone in your family would put 2 and 2 together and figure joran did something "BAD" to her. Maybe not! :shrug:
But I bet as you sat around waiting for your daughter to return, thinking joran was a nice guy and merely left her on the beach, one of your friends or family might try to explain to you that perhaps the boy harmed your daughter,,,,, but you would never believe that, much more likely she just floated out to sea after he was done shaking her. :rolleyes:
IMO

[Heyes]

LOL...Charles Manson followers...oh that's a good one, and really a great point to bring up regarding the support these young man has received...it seems very cultish.

I wonder if all these diehard Joran followers will shave their heads and carve x's in their foreheads, going around chanting things in support of their sporter. It really does seem to be sort of the same mentality, in my opinion.

Well now, the shaved head and X has been done. I think with joran followers it would be much more apropos to throw a couple of bolts in their necks!
imo

[HiLife]

LOL...Charles Manson followers...oh that's a good one, and really a great point to bring up regarding the support these young man has received...it seems very cultish.

I wonder if all these diehard Joran followers will shave their heads and carve x's in their foreheads, going around chanting things in support of their sporter. It really does seem to be sort of the same mentality, in my opinion.

When I first read the term "cult" on other message boards, I actually laughed, but as time passed and posts became more and more outrageous, I no longer laugh at the concept.

;)

[SukiJane]

You don't how she died, if she did die. The most logical explanation based on her own chosen behavior is that she died due to excessive drinking. The drinking has been documented by her own friends. And Twitty's partner in "made for TV cry on demand drama", De Vries, said that Natalee had drugs. If so, she most likely took them. Why would anyone go around with drugs in possession without partaking and probably passing them around?

I said poor Natalee because I can't imagine wanting the world, in the case of Twitty, or wanting messageboarders to dwell on invented stories about horrid things that were supposedly done to Natalee.

I do not understand how someone could say, paraphrased, "can you imagine the <<horror>> she felt as she saw the 3 men descend on her to gang rape her and......"

I think that is sick. To get your jollies, or to make money feeling "horror" over something salacious for which there is no hint of even happening.

IMO

Why would a mother want that? Except for trying to get donations or get "face time" on TV.

Thank goodness that no one in my family, my extended family, or inside my circle of friends would do that to their loved ones.

Yeah, she's dead....unfortunately for you no more posts about Natalee running off to Veneuzuela, hooking up with another, floating off in the wooden boat, or going out for a midnight swim to clean herself...If she ever had any of those desires, Joran seems to have taken care of that.

Man, it's gotta suck to spend hours and hours and hours of time supporting such a loser, trying desperately to create a scenario beyond Joran. What I wonder is that now he's opened his mouth, do you feel betrayed by loverboy362?

jmo

[HiLife]

At least I was coupled with Beth Twitty! I take that as a compliment.
If a poster prefers to be looped with joran, so be it! Maybe it takes one to know one, ya know?
Amazing!
Dr. joran, lol lol
Think he's still hiding under grandmas skirt? lmao
Murder a girl then hide at grandmas. What a guy!
IMO

Well, Joran had no choice - Joran had to go hide under granny's skirt because there was no room under Anita's!

Joran is a despicable coward. So is his father. They are only now beginning to understand the h3ll their lives will be for their lies.

[HiLife]

Yeah, she's dead....unfortunately for you no more posts about Natalee running off to Veneuzuela, hooking up with another, floating off in the wooden boat, or going out for a midnight swim to clean herself...If she ever had any of those desires, Joran seems to have taken care of that.

Man, it's gotta suck to spend hours and hours and hours of time supporting such a loser, trying desperately to create a scenario beyond Joran. What I wonder is that now he's opened his mouth, do you feel betrayed by loverboy362?

jmo

Being a sporter supporter is hard work! Defending a murderer who changes his story (afer you've gone through the time and trouble to think up adequate excuses for) everytime he opens his mouth, has got take a toll!

It's one thing for the defense attorneys to go through this kind of trouble, they're getting paid. But what is the excuse for the poor schlubs who do this on messageboards?

jmo

[SukiJane]

Unless one of them went out with joran and never returned......
Can you imagine if joran tried to shake the B**** and that B**** was your daughter? I bet someone in your family would put 2 and 2 together and figure joran did something "BAD" to her. Maybe not! :shrug:
But I bet as you sat around waiting for your daughter to return, thinking joran was a nice guy and merely left her on the beach, one of your friends or family might try to explain to you that perhaps the boy harmed your daughter,,,,, but you would never believe that, much more likely she just floated out to sea after he was done shaking her. :rolleyes:
IMO

Yep, it's always different when the shoe is on the other foot. IMO

[SukiJane]

Well, Joran had no choice - Joran had to go hide under granny's skirt because there was no room under Anita's!

Joran is a despicable coward. So is his father. They are only now beginning to understand the h3ll their lives will be for their lies.

Yeah he ran and hid, and then sent a message out to the world to stop picking on him or he'd commit suicide...awwwwww, LOL.

jmo

[SukiJane]

Being a sporter supporter is hard work! Defending a murderer who changes his story (afer you've gone through the time and trouble to think up adequate excuses for) everytime he opens his mouth, has got take a toll!

It's one thing for the defense attorneys to go through this kind of trouble, they're getting paid. But what is the excuse for the poor schlubs who do this on messageboards?

jmo

We might be giving the lowly message board posters a little too much credit, now that I give this some more thought. I believe that possibly there are one or two that were desperately trying to create scenarios, and then the job of the posters was just to repeat it, over and over and over, hoping to get more followers. IMO

[HiLife]

Yeah he ran and hid, and then sent a message out to the world to stop picking on him or he'd commit suicide...awwwwww, LOL.

jmo

You know there is minimal support when there is no sympathy for a "suicide" threat! Next!

[SukiJane]

You know there is minimal support when there is no sympathy for a "suicide" threat! Next!

Wow, but what would be the next step if you threaten suicide, and few people care?

What a bed Joran and the van der Sloots have made for themselves, gonna be hard sleeping in it!! I've actually tried to put myself in their shoes wondering what I would do...I would want to escape but where could I go, and what about Joran's younger brothers, goodness gracious, I can't even imagine what those poor kids are going through!!

jmo

[Heyes]

Being a sporter supporter is hard work! Defending a murderer who changes his story (afer you've gone through the time and trouble to think up adequate excuses for) everytime he opens his mouth, has got take a toll!

It's one thing for the defense attorneys to go through this kind of trouble, they're getting paid. But what is the excuse for the poor schlubs who do this on messageboards?

jmo

According to one of these posters, payment is involved!
aruba's tourism board must have some extra bucks.
By the way, any word on who is paying for all of jorans and kalpoes attorney's?
Everytime I hear that joran is innocent or aruba isn't corrupt, ( which is very rare these days), I just have to feel sorry for a person with such a lack of comprehension. Can you imagine the bad deals or lousy friends these folks must end up with?

IMO

[Heyes]

Yeah he ran and hid, and then sent a message out to the world to stop picking on him or he'd commit suicide...awwwwww, LOL.

jmo

And the world laughed.
lol
That should tell the sloots something, wouldn't ya think?

[HiLife]

According to one of these posters, payment is involved!
aruba's tourism board must have some extra bucks.
By the way, any word on who is paying for all of jorans and kalpoes attorney's?
Everytime I hear that joran is innocent or aruba isn't corrupt, ( which is very rare these days), I just have to feel sorry for a person with such a lack of comprehension. Can you imagine the bad deals or lousy friends these folks must end up with?

IMO

That was going to be my next question, Heyes. WHO IS PAYING ALL THE LAWYERS the Van der Sloots have hired in 3 different countries? Where is Paulus getting this money? Rich parents? Illegal activities on Aruba? Aruban Government?

Future love bowls?? lololol!!!

jmo

[HiLife]

Wow, but what would be the next step if you threaten suicide, and few people care?

What a bed Joran and the van der Sloots have made for themselves, gonna be hard sleeping in it!! I've actually tried to put myself in their shoes wondering what I would do...I would want to escape but where could I go, and what about Joran's younger brothers, goodness gracious, I can't even imagine what those poor kids are going through!!

jmo

Truly, Suki. These people have nowhere to hide! I would feel sorry, but they KEEP DEFENDING their son. I also cannot get over their coming out a few weeks before Joran confessed to say Natalee had "run away" and to "investigate her family."

How DARE they? They turned the poor Aruban people against Beth, the victim's mother and garnered sympathy for themselves - the parents of the murderer.

From what I have seen of their actions, they are deserving everything they are getting and more. They have no shame.

jmo

[Grandad]

Paid posters? really? how much are ya getting? Is it worth it?
You couldn't pay me enough to support a person like joran. Good thing your anonymous!
out·ra·geous /aʊtˈreɪdʒəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[out-rey-juhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. of the nature of or involving gross injury or wrong: an outrageous slander.
2. grossly offensive to the sense of right or decency: outrageous behavior; an outrageous remark.
3. passing reasonable bounds; intolerable or shocking: an outrageous price.
4. violent in action or temper.
5. highly unusual or unconventional; extravagant; remarkable: a child of the most outrageous precocity; a fancy dive performed with outrageous ease.

OUTRAGEOUS perfectly describes joran vandersloot!
Grossly offensive to the sense of right or decency.
Intolerable
Shocking
Violent in action or temper etc.

Thanks for the definition, although I doubt many people needed it.

It's as if the word "outrageous" was created to describe your posts.

[Heyes]

That was going to be my next question, Heyes. WHO IS PAYING ALL THE LAWYERS the Van der Sloots have hired in 3 different countries? Where is Paulus getting this money? Rich parents? Illegal activities on Aruba? Aruban Government?

Future love bowls?? lololol!!!

jmo

LOL Future love bowls!
I have no idea, but I wish we had the ability to follow the money. I would love to see that.
I brought over an article the other day stating that the vandersloots house on aruba was vandalized. I wonder if they have decided to pack in in and get out of there yet? Will they be joining granny and joran soon?
I do feel for jorans brothers, they have stayed out of the limelight, they didn't ask for this. Look at how many lives joran has affected, how many people have been hurt by his evil actions. How can the people who helped him get away with this even sleep at night. :shrug:
IMO
imo

[Heyes]

Truly, Suki. These people have nowhere to hide! I would feel sorry, but they KEEP DEFENDING their son. I also cannot get over their coming out a few weeks before Joran confessed to say Natalee had "run away" and to "investigate her family."

How DARE they? They turned the poor Aruban people against Beth, the victim's mother and garnered sympathy for themselves - the parents of the murderer.

From what I have seen of their actions, they are deserving everything they are getting and more. They have no shame.

jmo


I couldn't agree more.
:beer:

[HiLife]

LOL Future love bowls!
I have no idea, but I wish we had the ability to follow the money. I would love to see that.
I brought over an article the other day stating that the vandersloots house on aruba was vandalized. I wonder if they have decided to pack in in and get out of there yet? Will they be joining granny and joran soon?
I do feel for jorans brothers, they have stayed out of the limelight, they didn't ask for this. Look at how many lives joran has affected, how many people have been hurt by his evil actions. How can the people who helped him get away with this even sleep at night. :shrug:
IMO
imo

Maybe Beth should hire a Forensic Accountant to follow that money?! That would probably yield more results than any lawsuit right now against Joran.

The VDS are too crass to move out of Aruba. They STILL believe their son is not at fault. At the very minimum, they should have him getting some deep psychiatric care instead of all the lawyers - but we know what Joran would say to that! Quick! Hide all the wine!

jmo

[Heyes]

Thanks for the definition, although I doubt many people needed it.

It's as if the word "outrageous" was created to describe your posts.

Now, now. Get a grip, no need to get personal.
The topic is joran and the shameful behavior of the vandersloots.
imo

[Heyes]

Maybe Beth should hire a Forensic Accountant to follow that money?! That would probably yield more results than any lawsuit right now against Joran.

The VDS are too crass to move out of Aruba. They STILL believe their son is not at fault. At the very minimum, they should have him getting some deep psychiatric care instead of all the lawyers - but we know what Joran would say to that! Quick! Hide all the wine!

jmo

Your probably right!
LOL
Wasn't there some official statement out of aruba about joran needing some kind of psychiatric help? Wasn't that nice? Now the aruban court system can help diagnos! This island never ceases to amaze me. No, No, not enough evidence to charge. We've set the bar real high, see. And, well this video tape of a confession just isn't high enough. But... that kid joran really, really needs some mental help. Oh and maybe we should arrest that informant that managed to obtain jorans confession?
AMERICAN CITIZENS! STAY AWAY FROM ARUBA! :chicken:

imo

[Luke Davis]

Dateline tonight 10 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23261368/)

[Grandad]

Dateline tonight 10 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23261368/)

Same ol', same ol'.

Maybe I missed something, but the girl in the promo, I believe her name is Laraine, made the same comment as a teaser for a segment in the show that she made in the promo, something like, "Natalee, you're in trouble now", but I don't remember her putting it into context during her brief interview.

Did anyone notice they implied Dave was notified of Natalee's disappearance at the same time Beth was?

Other than that, the show seemed to be a plea for donations to Equusearch.

I wonder how that went over with Beth. No mention of her ISTF

[Luke Davis]

Same ol', same ol'.

Maybe I missed something, but the girl in the promo, I believe her name is Laraine, made the same comment as a teaser for a segment in the show that she made in the promo, something like, "Natalee, you're in trouble now", but I don't remember her putting it into context during her brief interview.

Did anyone notice they implied Dave was notified of Natalee's disappearance at the same time Beth was?

Other than that, the show seemed to be a plea for donations to Equusearch.

I wonder how that went over with Beth. No mention of her ISTF

I haven't heard Beth mention ISTF for several months. I view her site sometimes but nothing new.


IMO

[fairmaiden]

Same ol', same ol'.

Maybe I missed something, but the girl in the promo, I believe her name is Laraine, made the same comment as a teaser for a segment in the show that she made in the promo, something like, "Natalee, you're in trouble now", but I don't remember her putting it into context during her brief interview.

Did anyone notice they implied Dave was notified of Natalee's disappearance at the same time Beth was?

Other than that, the show seemed to be a plea for donations to Equusearch.

I wonder how that went over with Beth. No mention of her ISTF

Hey Grandad ....

I think some segments were very vague last night during the show. I think he said something like .... "Dave finally got the phone call ..... ". It wasn't very clear to me. The girl "who hadn't been heard of before" , really didn't add anything. I mean, she didn't have some "revelation" for all of us.

Beth DID say that she got the call that Natalee had not gotten on the plane, and she thought IMMEDIATELY she had been either kidnapped, or murdered !! She also mentioned the State Trooper, who "put her in contact with the FBI". I noticed more anger from her last night . I was struck by Dave's very obvious sadness. I was also struck by the fact that Natalee looked very much like her father. I think I noticed it more last night than I ever have before.

I must say .... Dave's dogged determination to find his daughter is heartbreaking. It seems he will not give up.

JMO

[Heyes]

Hey Grandad ....

I think some segments were very vague last night during the show. I think he said something like .... "Dave finally got the phone call ..... ". It wasn't very clear to me. The girl "who hadn't been heard of before" , really didn't add anything. I mean, she didn't have some "revelation" for all of us.

Beth DID say that she got the call that Natalee had not gotten on the plane, and she thought IMMEDIATELY she had been either kidnapped, or murdered !! She also mentioned the State Trooper, who "put her in contact with the FBI". I noticed more anger from her last night . I was struck by Dave's very obvious sadness. I was also struck by the fact that Natalee looked very much like her father. I think I noticed it more last night than I ever have before.

I must say .... Dave's dogged determination to find his daughter is heartbreaking. It seems he will not give up.

JMO

Those that continue to support the murderer contribute to Daves sadness. Poor man. not only has he lost his daughter but he's had to stomach this ongoing smear campaign. Disgusting!
Some people should be ashamed of themselves!

IMO

[fairmaiden]

Those that continue to support the murderer contribute to Daves sadness. Poor man. not only has he lost his daughter but he's had to stomach this ongoing smear campaign. Disgusting!
Some people should be ashamed of themselves!

IMO

I don't understand your post, Heyes .... I wasn't "smearing" anyone .... ?? I was merely making some observations.

JMO

[Grandad]

Hey Grandad ....

I think some segments were very vague last night during the show. I think he said something like .... "Dave finally got the phone call ..... ". It wasn't very clear to me. The girl "who hadn't been heard of before" , really didn't add anything. I mean, she didn't have some "revelation" for all of us.

Beth DID say that she got the call that Natalee had not gotten on the plane, and she thought IMMEDIATELY she had been either kidnapped, or murdered !! She also mentioned the State Trooper, who "put her in contact with the FBI". I noticed more anger from her last night . I was struck by Dave's very obvious sadness. I was also struck by the fact that Natalee looked very much like her father. I think I noticed it more last night than I ever have before.

I must say .... Dave's dogged determination to find his daughter is heartbreaking. It seems he will not give up.

JMO

It's one thing when Fox broadcasts Beth's vitriol, but I was surprised NBC broadcast her, "I wanted to crawl through the TV and kill him" and her "I wanted to peel the skin off his face" statements.

They just made Dateline a part of trash TV.

[ortiga]

Hey Grandad ....

I think some segments were very vague last night during the show. I think he said something like .... "Dave finally got the phone call ..... ". It wasn't very clear to me. The girl "who hadn't been heard of before" , really didn't add anything. I mean, she didn't have some "revelation" for all of us.

Beth DID say that she got the call that Natalee had not gotten on the plane, and she thought IMMEDIATELY she had been either kidnapped, or murdered !! She also mentioned the State Trooper, who "put her in contact with the FBI". I noticed more anger from her last night . I was struck by Dave's very obvious sadness. I was also struck by the fact that Natalee looked very much like her father. I think I noticed it more last night than I ever have before.

I must say .... Dave's dogged determination to find his daughter is heartbreaking. It seems he will not give up.

JMO

Hi FM,

IIRC in Beth's book she said that it was Matt that suggested that she call the FBI.

I also felt very badly for Dave, he is not acting. Compared to the little faces that Twitty the actress likes to make, he is so real.

[ortiga]

Those that continue to support the murderer contribute to Daves sadness. Poor man. not only has he lost his daughter but he's had to stomach this ongoing smear campaign. Disgusting!
Some people should be ashamed of themselves!

IMO

Who is smearing Dave? It's Beth that is the phony, IMO.

[ortiga]

Paid posters? really? how much are ya getting? Is it worth it?
You couldn't pay me enough to support a person like joran. Good thing your anonymous!
out·ra·geous /aʊtˈreɪdʒəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[out-rey-juhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. of the nature of or involving gross injury or wrong: an outrageous slander.
2. grossly offensive to the sense of right or decency: outrageous behavior; an outrageous remark.
3. passing reasonable bounds; intolerable or shocking: an outrageous price.
4. violent in action or temper.
5. highly unusual or unconventional; extravagant; remarkable: a child of the most outrageous precocity; a fancy dive performed with outrageous ease.

OUTRAGEOUS perfectly describes joran vandersloot!
Grossly offensive to the sense of right or decency.
Intolerable
Shocking
Violent in action or temper etc.


Thanks, but most of the rest of us don't have to look up commonly used words. If you read a lot of books you'll acquire a more extensive vocabulary, and common words like "outrageous" won't seem so exotic.

[ortiga]

It's one thing when Fox broadcasts Beth's vitriol, but I was surprised NBC broadcast her, "I wanted to crawl through the TV and kill him" and her "I wanted to peel the skin off his face" statements.

They just made Dateline a part of trash TV.

lol she copied that from Dave, but she ends up sounding like she did on the Dutch video where they played the psycho music to accompany her, while she put on her wanna be gangster look and said that she wanted to see Joran face to face, not through the camera.

Oh no, cameras are not for her.

;)

[ortiga]

I haven't heard Beth mention ISTF for several months. I view her site sometimes but nothing new.


IMO


The "donate" button is still there, she probably at least checks in to get those.

:patriot:

[ortiga]

I haven't heard Beth mention ISTF for several months. I view her site sometimes but nothing new.


IMO

Maybe she's decided to become a victim's advocate. She can counsel people on how to get the most cooperation with LE and other authorities.

[Grandad]

Thanks, but most of the rest of us don't have to look up commonly used words. If you read a lot of books you'll acquire a more extensive vocabulary, and common words like "outrageous" won't seem so exotic.

I'll bet she checked to prove you misused "exotic."

[Heyes]

I don't understand your post, Heyes .... I wasn't "smearing" anyone .... ?? I was merely making some observations.

JMO

I didn't direct the post at you a far as I can remember. But by your response I get the feeling your declaring yourself as a joran supporter. Yet you think he's :involved" in Natalee's death!
How? :shrug:
Why? :shrug:
imo

[Heyes]

Thanks, but most of the rest of us don't have to look up commonly used words. If you read a lot of books you'll acquire a more extensive vocabulary, and common words like "outrageous" won't seem so exotic.
Lookie there! You actually took time out from whining about Beth to insult another poster.

So when you can't defend your position as a *joran supporter*, you must personally attack!
Very telling!
I know it' hard but you really should try to stay on the subject of Natalee and how she was killed by joran vandersloot the murderer! Unless you'd like to talk about his parents. Paulus's timeline is a good place to start. Or we could talk about how anita obstructed justice! Or how about jorans 1rst statements that are magically missing.
Also it was anita I believe who tried to act, took all those classes. I thought she overacted but some people believed it....until, the confession. Who would believe her now?
Beth has been validated.
Everyone now knows that anita and her buddies tried to smear Beth. Didn't work! Certainly won't work now. Anita probably is not even welcome at her hairdressers. lmao!
Karma~


imo

[Grandad]

<snip>
I know it' hard but you really should try to stay on the subject of Natalee and how she was killed by joran vandersloot the murderer!

<snip>

Who officially declared Joran a murderer, and who dictated the thread was about his murdering Natalee?

You really do miss those glory days as hall monitor, don't you?

[fairmaiden]

I didn't direct the post at you a far as I can remember. But by your response I get the feeling your declaring yourself as a joran supporter. Yet you think he's :involved" in Natalee's death!
How? :shrug:
Why? :shrug:
imo

Don't get that feeling, Heyes .... I said I was confused by your response.