Discussion Thread 2007 (Part 6)

[Heyes]

Morning Grandad .... I don't think I can agree with you on this one.

It was really horrible reading what he maintains happened to Natalee. Do I believe everything he SAYS in his "confession" ?? No, I don't. I think the guy just lies, period !!

At the least, he is a despicable human being. He's never been one of my favorite people .... but I think it's long past him being just a 17 yr. old kid who panicked about Natalee dying accidentally. I think it's much more than that. I think he DOES know what happened to Natalee, whether it be that she DID die accidentally, or he harmed her in some way. I still feel she MAY have died accidentally, but to dump her body in the ocean ((IF that's what he did)) is just beyond words, IMO. I can't imagine ANYONE who knew NOTHING about what happened to Natalee, telling what he did on that tape. It's just beyond belief, to me.

I can't even IMAGINE how his parents feel after watching that video last night ((IF they did)).

JMO


You are a FAIRmaiden,
your honesty and your ability to put yourself out there in seeking the truth has earned my respect.
A bow to our fairmaiden,
IMO

[Heyes]

I can't believe, I REALLY can't believe how she seems to enjoy making the rounds of the talk show to describe how she is ready to mourn now. On GMA she is still talking about "the perpetrators" as though she is stuck on JK2.

Believe it or not, after conversing with Diane Sawyer about the possibility that her daughter may have not been dead when allegedly put in the ocean, a few paragraphs later she remarks:

"gosh I just couldn't take more comfort in knowing now what actually happened".

She went all the way to Holland to appear on the show, when she knew she would be called upon to show emotions, she had to have debated with herself on what to wear, which earrings, hand wringing gestures, and about a possible script.

Didn't you get the memo? as of last night after jorans confession, blaming the victim and her mother has been replaced with actually blaming the confessor, you know the one who didn't loose any sleep over this and when asked if she could have been alive when thrown overboard just shrugged and said yeah!. But hey defend that behavior all you want! :rolleyes:
IMO

[cassidy]

Morning Grandad .... I don't think I can agree with you on this one.

It was really horrible reading what he maintains happened to Natalee. Do I believe everything he SAYS in his "confession" ?? No, I don't. I think the guy just lies, period !!

At the least, he is a despicable human being. He's never been one of my favorite people .... but I think it's long past him being just a 17 yr. old kid who panicked about Natalee dying accidentally. I think it's much more than that. I think he DOES know what happened to Natalee, whether it be that she DID die accidentally, or he harmed her in some way. I still feel she MAY have died accidentally, but to dump her body in the ocean ((IF that's what he did)) is just beyond words, IMO. I can't imagine ANYONE who knew NOTHING about what happened to Natalee, telling what he did on that tape. It's just beyond belief, to me.

I can't even IMAGINE how his parents feel after watching that video last night ((IF they did)).

JMO

It is beyond belief to me too Fair. IF what he says is truly what happened to Natalee, then he is indeed a very sick person.

[ortiga]

Didn't you get the memo? as of last night after jorans confession, blaming the victim and her mother has been replaced with actually blaming the confessor, you know the one who didn't loose any sleep over this and when asked if she could have been alive when thrown overboard just shrugged and said yeah!. But hey defend that behavior all you want! :rolleyes:
IMO

Did you intend to quote me? I wonder because I said nothing of what you claim.

[No Nic]

Didn't you get the memo? as of last night after jorans confession, blaming the victim and her mother has been replaced with actually blaming the confessor, you know the one who didn't loose any sleep over this and when asked if she could have been alive when thrown overboard just shrugged and said yeah!. But hey defend that behavior all you want! :rolleyes:
IMO

Not to worry, Heyes. Their boy has been outed. He is TOAST!!! They will continue with their trash against Beth (and Natalee) cause it's all they got !!

The Dutch, the Aruban's no longer support him, he's in hiding, scared little coward that he is. But he still has a few *suppoters* on a few message boards.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHA

Incarcerated or not.............JORAN IS GOING DOWN, ANY CHANCE OF A DECENT FUTURE IS OVER!!!

[ortiga]

I propose a contest: guess how many shows Beth will go on to say that she is now ready to mourn. (I guess 10).

[Grandad]

I just watched ABC's 20/20.

Using a drug dealer who only interviewed Joran while he was smoking pot certainly added credibility to the DeVries show.

Of course, there's always the possibility Joran and Patrick were in cahoots and split the money DeVries paid.

But the thing that really struck me is the resemblance Beth now has to Joan Rivers. Incredible.

[No Nic]

I just watched ABC's 20/20.

Using a drug dealer who only interviewed Joran while he was smoking pot certainly added credibility to the DeVries show.

Of course, there's always the possibility Joran and Patrick were in cahoots and split the money DeVries paid.

But the thing that really struck me is the resemblance Beth now has to Joan Rivers. Incredible.


Your posts resemblance to watching Joran speak in the SUV. Incredible.

[AMS80]

I just watched ABC's 20/20.

Using a drug dealer who only interviewed Joran while he was smoking pot certainly added credibility to the DeVries show.

Of course, there's always the possibility Joran and Patrick were in cahoots and split the money DeVries paid.

But the thing that really struck me is the resemblance Beth now has to Joan Rivers. Incredible.

Unbelievable. After watching that show, the thing that struck you most was Beth's appearance? Wow.

What struck me most was the smart-a** smirk on that SOB's face the entire time he was telling his story.

IMO.

[cassidy]

OK I watched 20/20 last nite. That Patrick guy was sure enjoying his 5 minutes of fame and, to me, he came off as a total slimeball. I still don't know what to think. I do wonder if he was the supposed "scar-face" person who was tailing Mrs Twitty in Aruba? Kind of makes me wonder if he has been looking to find a way to capatilize on this for a long time? :shrug: Just a thought.

IMO

[ortiga]

Unbelievable. After watching that show, the thing that struck you most was Beth's appearance? Wow.

What struck me most was the smart-a** smirk on that SOB's face the entire time he was telling his story.

IMO.


Both Joran and Mrs Twitty (by the way, why is she Twitty again, was "Holloway" just for the book sales?) are different topics. No matter what Joran may or may not have done, what Twitty did was completely vile, lies lies lies and more lies, attacking families, trying to take food from the mouths of children in Aruba, accusing boys of gangrape, kidnapping murder stated as a fact, along with a myriad of other heinous accusations she threw around, like it was inconsequential and somehow honorable to accuse teenagers of gang rape without any proof.

Like I was saying...no matter what Joran may or may not have done, Twitty is a separate subject and she should be made to apologize to so many people, as well as to the general public who has had to endure her behavior on TV. I guess that some think that the year she spent lying to schoolchildren on public property about Natalee's oh so imagined kidnapping and gang rape should just be chalked off to a grieving mother syndrome.

Please don't try to stifle opinions, this is what the board is for.

IMO

[ortiga]

OK I watched 20/20 last nite. That Patrick guy was sure enjoying his 5 minutes of fame and, to me, he came off as a total slimeball. I still don't know what to think. I do wonder if he was the supposed "scar-face" person who was tailing Mrs Twitty in Aruba? Kind of makes me wonder if he has been looking to find a way to capatilize on this for a long time? :shrug: Just a thought.

IMO

There are a lot of stories going around about this guy, and that some in Aruba and Holland are ROTFLTAO at the depiction of this guy as some sort of altruistic do gooder. I think news of some of his past "actvities" will be released in the next few days. It's a little too early to call him whistleblower of the month.

[AMS80]

Both Joran and Mrs Twitty (by the way, why is she Twitty again, was "Holloway" just for the book sales?) are different topics. No matter what Joran may or may not have done, what Twitty did was completely vile, lies lies lies and more lies, attacking families, trying to take food from the mouths of children in Aruba, accusing boys of gangrape, kidnapping murder stated as a fact, along with a myriad of other heinous accusations she threw around, like it was inconsequential and somehow honorable to accuse teenagers of gang rape without any proof.

Like I was saying...no matter what Joran may or may not have done, Twitty is a separate subject and she should be made to apologize to so many people, as well as to the general public who has had to endure her behavior on TV. I guess that some think that the year she spent lying to schoolchildren on public property about Natalee's oh so imagined kidnapping and gang rape should just be chalked off to a grieving mother syndrome.

Please don't try to stifle opinions, this is what the board is for.

IMO

For one, I wasn't trying to stifle anyone's opinion. I was just stating that I thought the opinion was a little unbelievable.

For two, I completely and utterly disagree with just about everything you said in the above post. The way that Beth has acted during this whole fiasco has EVERYTHING to do with Joran and his choices. If my daughter was missing and I encountered anything close to the snide, arrogant, uncaring person that I saw in that video last night (just like Beth did the night she landed in Aruba), I probably would have formed the same opinions. As for the Kalpoes, I don't believe they had anything to do with what happened to Natalee, other than transporting a drunk girl so that their "friend" could take advantage of her. But, at the same time, they lied right along with Joran about where they took her. I would like to know how you would react if your 18 year old daughter was on a trip and went missing and you came across the same lies and misinformation from the people that were last seen with her. You just might form the same conclusions.

I will admit that I might not have handled everything the way that Beth did, but for heaven's sakes, how in the world can you blame her? I don't think for one second that she would trade having Natalee back for any amount of book sales, blah blah blah that you people say is all she cares about.

And I stand by my post that you responded to, that it is UNBELIEVABLE to criticize a mother for how she reacts to seeing what we all saw on those tapes. Low. No wonder that person is still making excuses for Joran.

IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO

[SukiJane]

OK I watched 20/20 last nite. That Patrick guy was sure enjoying his 5 minutes of fame and, to me, he came off as a total slimeball. I still don't know what to think. I do wonder if he was the supposed "scar-face" person who was tailing Mrs Twitty in Aruba? Kind of makes me wonder if he has been looking to find a way to capatilize on this for a long time? :shrug: Just a thought.

IMO


I watched 20/20 also, and I have to say that Patrick guy is one scary dude in my opinion, and his fake tears were really pathetic, but I do believe he was able to pull some truth from Joran. I've always thought Joran was a sorry excuse for a human being, and my feelings certainly didn't change much after seeing him talk about Natalee's death.

Did anyone notice the Bayer aspirin commercial with the lady that says she died from cardiac arrest (I think that is what she said), and was taken to the hospital and given shock treatment and brought back to life. Interesting slot for that ad, I thought.

:rose: For Natalee, it upsets me so much to think her last moments on earth were spent with this uncaring lying sack of poo, with no conscience, no remorse, and as he put it...just a lucky guy, with higher powers helping him....Puke Puke Puke.

jmo

[SukiJane]

There are a lot of stories going around about this guy, and that some in Aruba and Holland are ROTFLTAO at the depiction of this guy as some sort of altruistic do gooder. I think news of some of his past "actvities" will be released in the next few days. It's a little too early to call him whistleblower of the month.

What everyone should be laughing at is that Joran considered Patrick to be his BFF. Patrick was one of two people in the world that Joran trusted. One, the body dumper, and two, patrick....What about his parents, who put their necks and their credibility for their sorry ***** spawn on the line...He doesn't trust them? What a piece of work!!!

jmo

[Heyes]

Not to worry, Heyes. Their boy has been outed. He is TOAST!!! They will continue with their trash against Beth (and Natalee) cause it's all they got !!

The Dutch, the Aruban's no longer support him, he's in hiding, scared little coward that he is. But he still has a few *suppoters* on a few message boards.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHA

Incarcerated or not.............JORAN IS GOING DOWN, ANY CHANCE OF A DECENT FUTURE IS OVER!!!


YUP! Quote from Chris Cuomo in Amsterdam
"The way he has presents himself on that tape, Diane, has won him no friends
here. There are waves of hostility from his countrymen".


I bet!
imo

[Heyes]

I propose a contest: guess how many shows Beth will go on to say that she is now ready to mourn. (I guess 10).

I think it's time some here owe Beth an apology!'

The truth hurts.
IMO

[Heyes]

Both Joran and Mrs Twitty (by the way, why is she Twitty again, was "Holloway" just for the book sales?) are different topics. No matter what Joran may or may not have done, what Twitty did was completely vile, lies lies lies and more lies, attacking families, trying to take food from the mouths of children in Aruba, accusing boys of gangrape, kidnapping murder stated as a fact, along with a myriad of other heinous accusations she threw around, like it was inconsequential and somehow honorable to accuse teenagers of gang rape without any proof.

Like I was saying...no matter what Joran may or may not have done, Twitty is a separate subject and she should be made to apologize to so many people, as well as to the general public who has had to endure her behavior on TV. I guess that some think that the year she spent lying to schoolchildren on public property about Natalee's oh so imagined kidnapping and gang rape should just be chalked off to a grieving mother syndrome.

Please don't try to stifle opinions, this is what the board is for.

IMO



lol, lol lol

No, we dont want to "stifle" your opinions.
It says so much about you!
keep on posting!
;)

imo

[fairmaiden]

OK I watched 20/20 last nite. That Patrick guy was sure enjoying his 5 minutes of fame and, to me, he came off as a total slimeball. I still don't know what to think. I do wonder if he was the supposed "scar-face" person who was tailing Mrs Twitty in Aruba? Kind of makes me wonder if he has been looking to find a way to capatilize on this for a long time? :shrug: Just a thought.

IMO

Good morning, cassidy ....

After watching 20/20, a couple of things struck me. Yes, I agree with you .... Patrick is seeming to enjoy his 15 minutes of fame, but does it really matter ?? There's no doubt, in my mind at least, Joran SAID all those things. It's easy enough for me to believe that parts of his "confession" might not be true , because I DO think he was tyring to impress Patrick. I said that when I first saw the transcript. It's obvious Joran has been lying ((I'm not sure he knows how to tell the truth)). "Pathological liar" might well be what he is.

I keep thinking .... the Prosecutor had dropped this case, for all intents and purposes .... Joran was essentially free to do as he pleased, yet he decided to "tell the truth" to a virtual stranger, who he SAYS he didn't really trust !!??

Many seem to believe what Joran told Patrick was the truth now .... UNTIL, it gets to the part where "Daury" is the one who took Natalee's body out and dumped it ((I don't believe that either, incidentally)). It seems to me, there is some "picking and choosing" as to WHAT to believe and what NOT to believe. I'm not sure how one DOES that with Joran .

After listening to him .... watching his body movements , etc., I believe Joran knows more than any of us might think. I DO believe he knows what happened to Natalee. Is he telling the truth now ??? I don't think so.

The interesting thing to me too, is .... the Kalpoe Brothers seem to be less involved than many have thought. I don't think this bodes well for Dr. Phil.

I'm sorry .... the post was kind of "rambling" .... lol. One thing is for sure, I don't think of Joran as a 17-yr. old who panicked anymore.

JMO

[Heyes]

For one, I wasn't trying to stifle anyone's opinion. I was just stating that I thought the opinion was a little unbelievable.

For two, I completely and utterly disagree with just about everything you said in the above post. The way that Beth has acted during this whole fiasco has EVERYTHING to do with Joran and his choices. If my daughter was missing and I encountered anything close to the snide, arrogant, uncaring person that I saw in that video last night (just like Beth did the night she landed in Aruba), I probably would have formed the same opinions. As for the Kalpoes, I don't believe they had anything to do with what happened to Natalee, other than transporting a drunk girl so that their "friend" could take advantage of her. But, at the same time, they lied right along with Joran about where they took her. I would like to know how you would react if your 18 year old daughter was on a trip and went missing and you came across the same lies and misinformation from the people that were last seen with her. You just might form the same conclusions.

I will admit that I might not have handled everything the way that Beth did, but for heaven's sakes, how in the world can you blame her? I don't think for one second that she would trade having Natalee back for any amount of book sales, blah blah blah that you people say is all she cares about.

And I stand by my post that you responded to, that it is UNBELIEVABLE to criticize a mother for how she reacts to seeing what we all saw on those tapes. Low. No wonder that person is still making excuses for Joran.

IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO

Well said AMS80!
:beer:
The truth is out there. The posts speak for themselves when all they want to do is bash Beth. The world now knows what many of us believed. Joran is a bad seed. Beth told the truth and joran is the one who, by sheer stupidity showed us all, who he really is and what, give or take a few lies, he did with Natalee.
I noticed that paulus and anita are (for once), quiet!
Personally I have no sympathy for these two fools. They knew their son was trouble. I feel paulus was involved. I feel anita knows it was her son but will do or say anything to keep the precious vandersloot name clean. Reminds me of Jackie and Lee Peterson.
Beth is right!
Jorans he** has just begun. So will his enablers, anita and paulus.
Good!
IMO

[fairmaiden]

There are a lot of stories going around about this guy, and that some in Aruba and Holland are ROTFLTAO at the depiction of this guy as some sort of altruistic do gooder. I think news of some of his past "actvities" will be released in the next few days. It's a little too early to call him whistleblower of the month.

Morning ortiga ....

I guess one of the questions I have is .... WHATEVER or WHOEVER this Patrick is, does it really change what Joran said to him ??

JMO

[AMS80]

Good morning, cassidy ....

After watching 20/20, a couple of things struck me. Yes, I agree with you .... Patrick is seeming to enjoy his 15 minutes of fame, but does it really matter ?? There's no doubt, in my mind at least, Joran SAID all those things. It's easy enough for me to believe that parts of his "confession" might not be true , because I DO think he was tyring to impress Patrick. I said that when I first saw the transcript. It's obvious Joran has been lying ((I'm not sure he knows how to tell the truth)). "Pathological liar" might well be what he is.

I keep thinking .... the Prosecutor had dropped this case, for all intents and purposes .... Joran was essentially free to do as he pleased, yet he decided to "tell the truth" to a virtual stranger, who he SAYS he didn't really trust !!??

Many seem to believe what Joran told Patrick was the truth now .... UNTIL, it gets to the part where "Daury" is the one who took Natalee's body out and dumped it ((I don't believe that either, incidentally)). It seems to me, there is some "picking and choosing" as to WHAT to believe and what NOT to believe. I'm not sure how one DOES that with Joran .

After listening to him .... watching his body movements , etc., I believe Joran knows more than any of us might think. I DO believe he knows what happened to Natalee. Is he telling the truth now ??? I don't think so.

The interesting thing to me too, is .... the Kalpoe Brothers seem to be less involved than many have thought. I don't think this bodes well for Dr. Phil.

I'm sorry .... the post was kind of "rambling" .... lol. One thing is for sure, I don't think of Joran as a 17-yr. old who panicked anymore.

JMO

Hi FM!

I think Joran was for the most part telling the truth in those tapes. However, it did seem he was trying to impress Patrick ("she wanted it, those *****es wanted it vibe)...I think if he left out anything it was anything that might bode embarrassing for him. Maybe Natalee didn't want it, maybe she was happy with the "down the pants" action and wasn't interested in anything further. Maybe she was too passed out to decide. Either way, I can't see Joran "bragging" to his hero friend that Natalee was unconscious while he did stuff with her. LET ME REITERATE...that is just my opinion, and here is why...

The comment about "they can't do anything, even if they find her dead with my semen on her" (paraphrased) - Why would you say that? That's a pretty big "what if"

Why dispose of a body, especially when he didn't even know if she was dead or not, if there is nothing to incriminate you in a crime? I think we're all past the "he panicked" stage, too. He didn't panic, he methodically called for help, set an alibi, and took care of good old #1, himself.

Again, these are just my random thoughts and opinions!

[Heyes]

Good morning, cassidy ....

After watching 20/20, a couple of things struck me. Yes, I agree with you .... Patrick is seeming to enjoy his 15 minutes of fame, but does it really matter ?? There's no doubt, in my mind at least, Joran SAID all those things. It's easy enough for me to believe that parts of his "confession" might not be true , because I DO think he was tyring to impress Patrick. I said that when I first saw the transcript. It's obvious Joran has been lying ((I'm not sure he knows how to tell the truth)). "Pathological liar" might well be what he is.

I keep thinking .... the Prosecutor had dropped this case, for all intents and purposes .... Joran was essentially free to do as he pleased, yet he decided to "tell the truth" to a virtual stranger, who he SAYS he didn't really trust !!??

Many seem to believe what Joran told Patrick was the truth now .... UNTIL, it gets to the part where "Daury" is the one who took Natalee's body out and dumped it ((I don't believe that either, incidentally)). It seems to me, there is some "picking and choosing" as to WHAT to believe and what NOT to believe. I'm not sure how one DOES that with Joran .

After listening to him .... watching his body movements , etc., I believe Joran knows more than any of us might think. I DO believe he knows what happened to Natalee. Is he telling the truth now ??? I don't think so.

The interesting thing to me too, is .... the Kalpoe Brothers seem to be less involved than many have thought. I don't think this bodes well for Dr. Phil.

I'm sorry .... the post was kind of "rambling" .... lol. One thing is for sure, I don't think of Joran as a 17-yr. old who panicked anymore.

JMO

Agreed! This is the same joran Beth met that night when she first arrived. This is the true joran. Now picture in your mind how a murderer would react. joran fits the bill.
I always believed Beth when she told the world what joran said to her that night. Bumping his chest and saying, "what do you want me to do about it" with a nasty demeaner. That said alot. This is who we saw.
aruba helped cover up this crime.

They have been handed this case by Beth and now DeVries on a silver platter.
yet I have no hope in them charging joran.
Unless... they get rid of a judge........that one dang judge...... maybe the appeal today will change that.
IMO

[AMS80]

Well said AMS80!
:beer:
The truth is out there. The posts speak for themselves when all they want to do is bash Beth. The world now knows what many of us believed. Joran is a bad seed. Beth told the truth and joran is the one who, by sheer stupidity showed us all, who he really is and what, give or take a few lies, he did with Natalee.
I noticed that paulus and anita are (for once), quiet!
Personally I have no sympathy for these two fools. They knew their son was trouble. I feel paulus was involved. I feel anita knows it was her son but will do or say anything to keep the precious vandersloot name clean. Reminds me of Jackie and Lee Peterson.
Beth is right!
Jorans he** has just begun. So will his enablers, anita and paulus.
Good!
IMO

Mornin, Heyes!

I also believe that Paulus could be the "friend" that helped him out. I know Joran mentioned that he "had something" on this friend that helped him, ensuring that he wouldn't talk, but come on, what could be bad enough to risk this? IMO it is rare to find someone that would help him dispose of the body, for one, and also give him the mature advice that he was given (i.e. go to school, act normal, internet, texting, home within a certain time, etc). I honestly don't know who helped him out, but that person is ONE cruel mother if you ask me. It takes a lot for one person to disregard a life, but two people is just too much. If only they would've called 911. Maybe she was dead anyways, but at least her family would have known for sure that she wasn't thrown into the ocean alive.

If he was innocent of any wrongdoing he wouldn't have reacted in this way. He did something wrong, and that's all there is to it.

IMO :)

[fairmaiden]

Well said AMS80!
:beer:
The truth is out there. The posts speak for themselves when all they want to do is bash Beth. The world now knows what many of us believed. Joran is a bad seed. Beth told the truth and joran is the one who, by sheer stupidity showed us all, who he really is and what, give or take a few lies, he did with Natalee.
I noticed that paulus and anita are (for once), quiet!
Personally I have no sympathy for these two fools. They knew their son was trouble. I feel paulus was involved. I feel anita knows it was her son but will do or say anything to keep the precious vandersloot name clean. Reminds me of Jackie and Lee Peterson.
Beth is right!
Jorans he** has just begun. So will his enablers, anita and paulus.
Good!
IMO

I feel differently than you do about "parents", in general. You call Joran's parents "fools", and of course, you have no sympathy for them. It's difficult for me to understand what THEY have been going through this past almost 3 years.

How do you think Paulus was involved ?? Are you one who thinks it was paulus who disposed of Natalee's body ?? IF that's the case, please tell me how YOU "pick and choose" the truths about Joran's "confession" ??

JMO

[Heyes]

Hi FM!

I think Joran was for the most part telling the truth in those tapes. However, it did seem he was trying to impress Patrick ("she wanted it, those *****es wanted it vibe)...I think if he left out anything it was anything that might bode embarrassing for him. Maybe Natalee didn't want it, maybe she was happy with the "down the pants" action and wasn't interested in anything further. Maybe she was too passed out to decide. Either way, I can't see Joran "bragging" to his hero friend that Natalee was unconscious while he did stuff with her. LET ME REITERATE...that is just my opinion, and here is why...

The comment about "they can't do anything, even if they find her dead with my semen on her" (paraphrased) - Why would you say that? That's a pretty big "what if"

Why dispose of a body, especially when he didn't even know if she was dead or not, if there is nothing to incriminate you in a crime? I think we're all past the "he panicked" stage, too. He didn't panic, he methodically called for help, set an alibi, and took care of good old #1, himself.

Again, these are just my random thoughts and opinions!


all good points
I think with all the information we have had and we are getting. Its safe to say joran did something horrible to Natalee.
It left evidence.
It could be one thing, it could be a combination. Drugs, physical violence, rape, whatever it was it left evidence. That was obviously the focus when it came to what to do at that point. He knew that even if she was unconcious he couldn't call for help or leave her there. Evidence!
IMO

[fairmaiden]

Hi FM!

I think Joran was for the most part telling the truth in those tapes. However, it did seem he was trying to impress Patrick ("she wanted it, those *****es wanted it vibe)...I think if he left out anything it was anything that might bode embarrassing for him. Maybe Natalee didn't want it, maybe she was happy with the "down the pants" action and wasn't interested in anything further. Maybe she was too passed out to decide. Either way, I can't see Joran "bragging" to his hero friend that Natalee was unconscious while he did stuff with her. LET ME REITERATE...that is just my opinion, and here is why...

The comment about "they can't do anything, even if they find her dead with my semen on her" (paraphrased) - Why would you say that? That's a pretty big "what if"

Why dispose of a body, especially when he didn't even know if she was dead or not, if there is nothing to incriminate you in a crime? I think we're all past the "he panicked" stage, too. He didn't panic, he methodically called for help, set an alibi, and took care of good old #1, himself.

Again, these are just my random thoughts and opinions!

Hi AMS .... Yes, I DO believe he was trying to impress Patrick, his new-found friend. One can see, just from his body movements, the "bravado" he displays while telling all of this. The reference to Natalee as a "wh*re", for example .... totally unnecessary, unless, like I said, he is trying to impress someone.

Since they interviewed "Daury" almost at the end of 20/20, I DON'T believe Joran called him. Daury said, he has never owned a boat, and what's more, he maintains Joran called him to apologize to him for getting him "involved" in this.

Yes, I would agree with you also .... there would be absolutely no reason to get rid of a body if there was no chance of implicating him in a crime.

It has certainly made an impression on me, just WATCHING Joran tell this story to Patrick. His obvious disdain for Natalee .... his "I don't care" attitude .... his almost bragging about what transpired. It's just difficult for me to determine if even THIS is the truth.

JMO

[Heyes]

I feel differently than you do about "parents", in general. You call Joran's parents "fools", and of course, you have no sympathy for them. It's difficult for me to understand what THEY have been going through this past almost 3 years.

How do you think Paulus was involved ?? Are you one who thinks it was paulus who disposed of Natalee's body ?? IF that's the case, please tell me how YOU "pick and choose" the truths about Joran's "confession" ??

JMO

I normaly feel very bad for the parents on both sides. but occationaly there are exceptions. Like I mentioned earlier, the petersons. In this case, the vandersloots. I look at the circumstances and with the meetings and the no body no case statement, his demeaner etc. He IMO is involved. How deep I do not know. I would think he wouldn't be the guy who disposed of Natalee. But phone calls can be made. His statements. his lack of timeline.
anita knew her kid was capable of violence. her demeaner. her attitude towards Natalee. I could go on and on. It's everything taken as a whole. They were deceiptful. The petersons were too. I'm glad that the truth of both of their sons is out.
They should issue a public apology to Beth! At the very least.

IMO

[SukiJane]

lol, lol lol

No, we dont want to "stifle" your opinions.
It says so much about you!
keep on posting!
;)

imo

I agree, quite entertaining...

Beth, waaaaaaa, her lips, waaaaa, her cleavage, waaaaaa, her lies, waaaaa, she's vile, waaaaaa...

jmo

[SukiJane]

Good morning, cassidy ....

After watching 20/20, a couple of things struck me. Yes, I agree with you .... Patrick is seeming to enjoy his 15 minutes of fame, but does it really matter ?? There's no doubt, in my mind at least, Joran SAID all those things. It's easy enough for me to believe that parts of his "confession" might not be true , because I DO think he was tyring to impress Patrick. I said that when I first saw the transcript. It's obvious Joran has been lying ((I'm not sure he knows how to tell the truth)). "Pathological liar" might well be what he is.

I keep thinking .... the Prosecutor had dropped this case, for all intents and purposes .... Joran was essentially free to do as he pleased, yet he decided to "tell the truth" to a virtual stranger, who he SAYS he didn't really trust !!??

Many seem to believe what Joran told Patrick was the truth now .... UNTIL, it gets to the part where "Daury" is the one who took Natalee's body out and dumped it ((I don't believe that either, incidentally)). It seems to me, there is some "picking and choosing" as to WHAT to believe and what NOT to believe. I'm not sure how one DOES that with Joran .

After listening to him .... watching his body movements , etc., I believe Joran knows more than any of us might think. I DO believe he knows what happened to Natalee. Is he telling the truth now ??? I don't think so.

The interesting thing to me too, is .... the Kalpoe Brothers seem to be less involved than many have thought. I don't think this bodes well for Dr. Phil.

I'm sorry .... the post was kind of "rambling" .... lol. One thing is for sure, I don't think of Joran as a 17-yr. old who panicked anymore.

JMO

The Kalpoe brothers get no free ride from me. They knew Joran's character, they knew something was up, and I believe they knew something wasn't right with Natalee while she was in the car. I personally don't think Natalee was in any shape to have a desire to spend time on the beach with Joran. Deepak at the very least should have taken her back to her hotel. To keep such valuable details as where Natalee was last seen from the family and police for as long as they did is unforgiveable.

Then Deepak has a chance to right himself a little, with the Skeeter's interview, and never once talks against Joran, but doesn't waste any time throwing some jabs at Natalee and her mother. I have to wonder what higher powers was Joran talking about? and what they got out of the deal to keep their mouths shut.

Regarding Joran, I definitely believe his initial reaction was panic, but if we believe his story, it amazes me how he moves so quickly from panic mode, to criminal mode. He hides her in the mangroves, he calls from a payphone instead of his cell phone, he asks someone NOT to call the police, he dumps his shoes somewhere, he goes home to create an alibi. What kind of person could be thinking along these lines, if Joran in no way contributed to her death.

jmo

[Grandad]

<snip>
What struck me most was the smart-a** smirk on that SOB's face the entire time he was telling his story.

IMO.

Pot does that to people.

[Grandad]

OK I watched 20/20 last nite. That Patrick guy was sure enjoying his 5 minutes of fame and, to me, he came off as a total slimeball. I still don't know what to think. I do wonder if he was the supposed "scar-face" person who was tailing Mrs Twitty in Aruba? Kind of makes me wonder if he has been looking to find a way to capatilize on this for a long time? :shrug: Just a thought.

IMO

Patrick impressed me as being a toned down version of Joe Mammana.

[fairmaiden]

The Kalpoe brothers get no free ride from me. They knew Joran's character, they knew something was up, and I believe they knew something wasn't right with Natalee while she was in the car. I personally don't think Natalee was in any shape to have a desire to spend time on the beach with Joran. Deepak at the very least should have taken her back to her hotel. To keep such valuable details as where Natalee was last seen from the family and police for as long as they did is unforgiveable.

Then Deepak has a chance to right himself a little, with the Skeeter's interview, and never once talks against Joran, but doesn't waste any time throwing some jabs at Natalee and her mother. I have to wonder what higher powers was Joran talking about? and what they got out of the deal to keep their mouths shut.

Regarding Joran, I definitely believe his initial reaction was panic, but if we believe his story, it amazes me how he moves so quickly from panic mode, to criminal mode. He hides her in the mangroves, he calls from a payphone instead of his cell phone, he asks someone NOT to call the police, he dumps his shoes somewhere, he goes home to create an alibi. What kind of person could be thinking along these lines, if Joran in no way contributed to her death.

jmo

I'm not talking about any "free rides", Suki. When I said, I think the Kalpoe's are less involved .... I meant from a "gangraping" standpoint. Of course, I've never believed they raped Natalee. As I said somewhere else .... if I believe ANYTHING in this case, I believe that.

The problem with a lot of people seems to be that things are just "black and white". I don't believe that. I have to confess, I have never listened to the entire 2 1/2 hr. "interview" ((IIRC)) Skeeter conducted. I actually didn't see the need to, because a VERY specific tiny little part of that interview was being used to determine there WAS a "gangrape". Have you listened to all of it ??

Another problem I see is .... many are now lauding this "confession" as the truth, EXCEPT for certain parts. I asked before .... how can anyone DO that. Some seem to pick the facts that DON'T fit in with their agenda .... one being that Natalee didn't die accidentally .... Joran murdered her. It wasn't Daury who took Natalee's body out in the ocean, it was Paulus. Just a couple of examples. My point is .... Joran is just NOT believable. How can we determine WHEN he's telling the "truth" ??

JMO

[AMS80]

Pot does that to people.

Really? Because I'll admit I tried pot a few times back in the day and it certainly didn't make me confess a crime I didn't commit just for laughs!

In all seriousness, are you saying you think Joran said all this stuff just because he had a few puffs of weed?

[Grandad]

<snip>I would like to know how you would react if your 18 year old daughter was on a trip and went missing and you came across the same lies and misinformation from the people that were last seen with her.

<snip>

I have three grown daughters, but since I didn't send any of them on an "all you can drink" junket, I was never in a position to know.

[Grandad]

Morning ortiga ....

I guess one of the questions I have is .... WHATEVER or WHOEVER this Patrick is, does it really change what Joran said to him ??

JMO

I think it has everything to do with what Joran said.

The guy gave him drugs, led him on, and obviously promised Joran things if Joran could impress him.

There are supposedly 20 hours of tape. We heard about 15 minutes of it. There are undoubtedly a lot of things on that tape that might put the relationship in an entirely different light.

[Grandad]

Really? Because I'll admit I tried pot a few times back in the day and it certainly didn't make me confess a crime I didn't commit just for laughs!

In all seriousness, are you saying you think Joran said all this stuff just because he had a few puffs of weed?

I'm saying weed can make people easy to manipulate, under the right circumstances.

We also don't know a little pot is all Patrick gave him.

Joran's "confession" to Patrick was not a coherent story. It was obviously something Joran made up as he went along. Patrick wanted Joran to prove he could be trusted, and relied upon to do what had to be done for their "business" venture, Joran tried to prove he was the right guy for the job.

Not too much different from the story a girl gets from a guy trying to get her into bed. The guy tells her what she wants to hear.

[fairmaiden]

I think it has everything to do with what Joran said.

The guy gave him drugs, led him on, and obviously promised Joran things if Joran could impress him.

There are supposedly 20 hours of tape. We heard about 15 minutes of it. There are undoubtedly a lot of things on that tape that might put the relationship in an entirely different light.

Good morning, Grandad .... There's no dispute about Patrick giving him drugs, AND promising him things. Now, believe it or not .... I've never tried pot .... but from what I've been told, it DOES tend to make people "less inhibited". You're correct also about the HOURS of tape . I've heard the same thing .... although I don't know how MANY hours. Yes, I've said all along, I think Joran was trying to impress this guy.

That's why I think there could be dispute as to whether or not Peter DeVries actually SOLVED this case. I think the bottom line might be, he gave Beth something which she could hang onto. As I said .... some people are still saying Joran murdered her. Obviously, that's not what Joran said. So, as far as "solving" this case, I think it's a rather grandiose statement for Peter DeVries to make.

The problem I have NOW is .... this all does seem like some kind of sick game to Joran. I actually think he ENJOYS all this.

JMO

[SukiJane]

I'm not talking about any "free rides", Suki. When I said, I think the Kalpoe's are less involved .... I meant from a "gangraping" standpoint. Of course, I've never believed they raped Natalee. As I said somewhere else .... if I believe ANYTHING in this case, I believe that.

The problem with a lot of people seems to be that things are just "black and white". I don't believe that. I have to confess, I have never listened to the entire 2 1/2 hr. "interview" ((IIRC)) Skeeter conducted. I actually didn't see the need to, because a VERY specific tiny little part of that interview was being used to determine there WAS a "gangrape". Have you listened to all of it ??

Another problem I see is .... many are now lauding this "confession" as the truth, EXCEPT for certain parts. I asked before .... how can anyone DO that. Some seem to pick the facts that DON'T fit in with their agenda .... one being that Natalee didn't die accidentally .... Joran murdered her. It wasn't Daury who took Natalee's body out in the ocean, it was Paulus. Just a couple of examples. My point is .... Joran is just NOT believable. How can we determine WHEN he's telling the "truth" ??

JMO

I agree, the problem does seem to be those that only think in black and white. You don't think the Kalpoes raped Natalee, neither do I, (now this part would be my gray area) but I believe they watched while an unconscious Natalee was being sexually violated, and actually got off on it too...Satish putting in the DVD...what creeps. Maybe they didn't rape her, but I believe Joran sexually violated Natalee in the car, they watched it, and didn't do anything to stop it.

I read the transcripts that were posted of the Skeeter's interview. Deepak talking about Beth being drunk on the beach, he knows because he has sources...puh leeeze, Natalee dressing and acting like a ****. Deepak hoping that ALE continues to screw up. It's all Beth's fault...upset because how he was treated the first night by the family...Deepak makes me sick!

Because Joran lies so much, we are all forced to try and decide what is truth and what is not. This would be my gray area, the black area would be that he lies therefore we can't believe anything he says. I too believe he called Daddy, who else would be concerned that he just get on home, and think about school tomorrow, if this is the way it happend. Who else would take the chance to come to his house and talk about it, as Joran said.

jmo

[AMS80]

I agree, the problem does seem to be those that only think in black and white. You don't think the Kalpoes raped Natalee, neither do I, (now this part would be my gray area) but I believe they watched while an unconscious Natalee was being sexually violated, and actually got off on it too...Satish putting in the DVD...what creeps. Maybe they didn't rape her, but I believe Joran sexually violated Natalee in the car, they watched it, and didn't do anything to stop it.

I read the transcripts that were posted of the Skeeter's interview. Deepak talking about Beth being drunk on the beach, he knows because he has sources...puh leeeze, Natalee dressing and acting like a ****. Deepak hoping that ALE continues to screw up. It's all Beth's fault...upset because how he was treated the first night by the family...Deepak makes me sick!

Because Joran lies so much, we are all forced to try and decide what is truth and what is not. This would be my gray area, the black area would be that he lies therefore we can't believe anything he says. I too believe he called Daddy, who else would be concerned that he just get on home, and think about school tomorrow, if this is the way it happend. Who else would take the chance to come to his house and talk about it, as Joran said.

jmo

Totally agree with your last paragraph, Suki. Anybody else other than Daddy would make his precious butt help dump her. I will even stretch and say a friend might help dispose of the body. But to say "I'll take care of it sweet Joran you just go home and sleep and I'll do all the dirty work." Naw, ain't happenin'. Either he helped to dispose of her or his Dad took care of it, one or the other.

[Grandad]

Good morning, Grandad .... There's no dispute about Patrick giving him drugs, AND promising him things. Now, believe it or not .... I've never tried pot .... but from what I've been told, it DOES tend to make people "less inhibited". You're correct also about the HOURS of tape . I've heard the same thing .... although I don't know how MANY hours. Yes, I've said all along, I think Joran was trying to impress this guy.

That's why I think there could be dispute as to whether or not Peter DeVries actually SOLVED this case. I think the bottom line might be, he gave Beth something which she could hang onto. As I said .... some people are still saying Joran murdered her. Obviously, that's not what Joran said. So, as far as "solving" this case, I think it's a rather grandiose statement for Peter DeVries to make.

The problem I have NOW is .... this all does seem like some kind of sick game to Joran. I actually think he ENJOYS all this.

JMO

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying I condone, or respect, everything Joran has done, I'm saying I understand why he might have done it.

I'll tell you a story I've related bits and pieces of in the past. Hopefully the entire story will give you a better idea of why I feel the way I do.

I was in my early twenties, married, my wife was three months pregnant, I had a good job, had just purchased my first house, and I was on the fast track to a promising career.

Life couldn't have been a lot better. One day, out of the blue, I was accused of embezzling $35,000.00 from the company I worked for.

The accusation was made by the controller of the company, and every day or two for the next two weeks someone in the company came forward with another accusation.

There wasn't a shred of evidence I was guilty, and no one really cared that I didn't have access to company money, and simply couldn't have been guilty.

I immediately lost all my friends, the respect of my in-laws, and it was a small enough community I couldn't get a job.

My meager savings soon ran out, my ex-employer was fighting my unemployment claim, problems between my wife and me escalated, not because she thought I was guilty, but simply because of the problems and pressure.

We lost the house, she lost the baby, and filed for divorce as a condition of her parents allowing her to come back home, and there was nothing for me to do but leave town.

No charges were ever filed because there was no evidence, so naturally there was no trial, and no criminal record.

For two years every waking moment was filled with thoughts of revenge, and since I couldn't sleep, those thoughts filled my mind 24 hours a day.

I went through about eight jobs during those two years, and finally one day during a job interview, I told my entire story because I knew by then it would catch up with me sooner or later anyway.

To my surprise, my prospective employer said to me, "I'll take a chance on you if you make me one promise. Stop living in the past, and start working for the future."

Within five years I had a better job than I would have had if I had never been fired from my original job. I was only about 60 miles from my previous home, so a lot of people who had known me knew where I was, and what was happening in my life.

About two years after I started my new job my previous employer went out of business, and the guy who had been the controller got a similar job with another company. Two years later he was arrested for embezzlement, and subsequently confessed he committed the crime I had been accused of.

No one, not one single person from my previous life ever contacted me or apologized in any way.

Except for the fact my first wife had committed suicide, I have no regrets.

I think I'm a stronger, better person than I might have been otherwise, and I believe I have much better insight into others than I would have had.

Do I think I'm perfect? Of course not. But I do believe I'm more objective and less judgmental than most people, and the judgments I make are based on facts, and not emotion.

Sorry if the story bored you.

[fairmaiden]

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying I condone, or respect, everything Joran has done, I'm saying I understand why he might have done it.

I'll tell you a story I've related bits and pieces of in the past. Hopefully the entire story will give you a better idea of why I feel the way I do.

I was in my early twenties, married, my wife was three months pregnant, I had a good job, had just purchased my first house, and I was on the fast track to a promising career.

Life couldn't have been a lot better. One day, out of the blue, I was accused of embezzling $35,000.00 from the company I worked for.

The accusation was made by the controller of the company, and every day or two for the next two weeks someone in the company came forward with another accusation.

There wasn't a shred of evidence I was guilty, and no one really cared that I didn't have access to company money, and simply couldn't have been guilty.

I immediately lost all my friends, the respect of my in-laws, and it was a small enough community I couldn't get a job.

My meager savings soon ran out, my ex-employer was fighting my unemployment claim, problems between my wife and me escalated, not because she thought I was guilty, but simply because of the problems and pressure.

We lost the house, she lost the baby, and filed for divorce as a condition of her parents allowing her to come back home, and there was nothing for me to do but leave town.

No charges were ever filed because there was no evidence, so naturally there was no trial, and no criminal record.

For two years every waking moment was filled with thoughts of revenge, and since I couldn't sleep, those thoughts filled my mind 24 hours a day.

I went through about eight jobs during those two years, and finally one day during a job interview, I told my entire story because I knew by then it would catch up with me sooner or later anyway.

To my surprise, my prospective employer said to me, "I'll take a chance on you if you make me one promise. Stop living in the past, and start working for the future."

Within five years I had a better job than I would have had if I had never been fired from my original job. I was only about 60 miles from my previous home, so a lot of people who had known me knew where I was, and what was happening in my life.

About two years after I started my new job my previous employer went out of business, and the guy who had been the controller got a similar job with another company. Two years later he was arrested for embezzlement, and subsequently confessed he committed the crime I had been accused of.

No one, not one single person from my previous life ever contacted me or apologized in any way.

Except for the fact my first wife had committed suicide, I have no regrets.

I think I'm a stronger, better person than I might have been otherwise, and I believe I have much better insight into others than I would have had.

Do I think I'm perfect? Of course not. But I do believe I'm more objective and less judgmental than most people, and the judgments I make are based on facts, and not emotion.

Sorry if the story bored you.

The story did not bore me, Grandad. I'm sorry so many things happened to you, which obviously have changed your outlook on life, although probably for the better. Things which happen in our lives, sometimes have a devastating affect on our families and those we love.

Truthfully, for the past 2.7 years, I have gone back and forth with this case. I could never bring myself to find Joran et al guilty of harming Natalee, especially from day one. I don't know how ANYONE could have done that. I would go back and forth wondering if Joran harmed her ((I never thought the Kalpoe Brothers did)), and thinking there really wasn't enough evidence to SHOW that he harmed her. I watched them be arrested 3 times, then released 3 times, because of lack of evidence. I NEVER thought their was any coverup .... I still think that's a ridiculous idea.

During all of this, Joran was never one of my favorite people. I knew of his lies, never excused his lies. I was offended by the format in which his "confession" was presented .... especially with Beth sitting there. It was/is all too "sensational" for me .... "entertainment", in other words. I don't know if Beth was ever given the chance to watch this "privately", or if she chose to watch it publicly .... or if DeVries didn't ask her what she preferred.

I was struck by Joran's total lack of respect for the situation, or Natalee. Yes, I was struck by his bravado, and his seeming not to CARE about Natalee at all. After watching 20/20 last night, I was even more struck by those things, because I could see Joran. I honestly don't know when he's telling the truth .... IF he's telling the truth .... or what parts of it are true. All I know is, he SAID all of it. It really doesn't matter to me who Patrick is .... it doesn't alter what Joran said.

I think, whoever said it, is right .... Joran's credibility is totally SHOT around the world.

JMO

[cassidy]

Sorry if the story bored you.

I am so sorry that happened to you. And no, the story was not boring. I've said before that the way we think is greatly colored by our life's experiences. I do think that those of us who have been hurt or injured by a false accusation, be it large or small, develope a tendency to look at situations like this from a different view. I am not particularly fond of Joran, or at least his public persona. But I do know that 17 year old boys are often prone to false bravado, they act tougher than they really are. IF (playing devil's advocate here) the scene went down as Joran told it on the tape ( at least in one version). IF he did actually call a friend or whomever, then the situation was taken out of his hands at that moment. IF someone else took Natalee's body out to sea and Joran had no part in it, then he has truly been living a nightmare not of his making. It would certainly have done much to shape his thinking and his actions. I can't imagine keeping a secret like that for this long.

JMO

[ortiga]

Morning ortiga ....

I guess one of the questions I have is .... WHATEVER or WHOEVER this Patrick is, does it really change what Joran said to him ??

JMO

It depends. Because we don't know yet what Patrick had said to him all that time. A lot of what Joran seemed to say was in reacting to what Patrick planted as suggestions. That, plus the dope offered to Joran by Patrick, puts a shade over all of it. So many of the quotes from Joran were not possible, the phone that wasn't there, the mangroves that aren't where he told Patrick, and ones that he did say, "Of course he tried CPR, he tried "everything", these are lost in some of the quotes that were apparenly cherry picked for the show. There are a lot more inconsistencies, for example a poster from Aruba has pointed out that the nearest pier is at least 3 hotels away from where Joran said he called from, and that he and his friend carried her to the pier. Once he says the friend said go home, I'll take care of Natalee, and once Joran said he helped carry her body to the pier and into the boat. And, on a well lit beach, patrolled by security guards, no one noticed?

So I am left where a lot of other case followers seem to be, somewhat nauseated by the seemingly offhand remarks he made, but very very suspicious that the sentences picked out for TV consumption don't show how much leading that Patrick did to elicit responses, and that possibly Joran was trying to please Patrick by acting tough and agreeing with him a lot. For instance the word "boat" came from Patrick, not Joran. And, I suspect a lot of what we saw was extremely cut and pasted, and nearly all of what Patrick said was left out. There are some very nasty reports coming out on the Dutch boards about him (scarface). True? I don't know.

Anyway, jury is still out....and, that does not in anyway affect my disdain for Twitty or whatever her name is now. She has no excuse for what she said about Joran or all the rest of the people she bad mouthed with her heinous accusations. Not one thing that she said has been proven, sexual predatorship, drugging, forcing Natalee to drink against her will, kidnapping, rape, gang rape, murder. Corruption, collusion, ad nauseum. Nothing she said was justified.

And, I still say "what kind of mother would fly to another country to emote on cue". Grieving people don't do that. I think she practiced all of that in a mirror first.

IMO

[ortiga]

Hi AMS .... Yes, I DO believe he was trying to impress Patrick, his new-found friend. One can see, just from his body movements, the "bravado" he displays while telling all of this. The reference to Natalee as a "wh*re", for example .... totally unnecessary, unless, like I said, he is trying to impress someone.

Since they interviewed "Daury" almost at the end of 20/20, I DON'T believe Joran called him. Daury said, he has never owned a boat, and what's more, he maintains Joran called him to apologize to him for getting him "involved" in this.

Yes, I would agree with you also .... there would be absolutely no reason to get rid of a body if there was no chance of implicating him in a crime.

It has certainly made an impression on me, just WATCHING Joran tell this story to Patrick. His obvious disdain for Natalee .... his "I don't care" attitude .... his almost bragging about what transpired. It's just difficult for me to determine if even THIS is the truth.

JMO


B itch w hore s lut, none of that bothers me one iota during a guy talk joy ride. Deepak used one of those words about Natalee referring to her dress and talk, and that was in a pretty mild albeit surrupticiously (sp!) recorded interview with Skeeter, when Skeeter himself used the F word. And, Beth chose to publicize the fact that Deepak's impression of Natalee was characterized in that way. She didn't care that the world thought that of her.

I have some neighbors that have kids in high school, and the word Ho is tossed all around, even in front of us grownups. So, that language doesn't bother me, it's not nearly in the same league as Twitty calling the boys gang rapers. I guess if I had a teenage daughter and a teenage son, I would sure rather hear an offhand remark to the word "Ho" than have my son accused on TV of being a gang raper, drugger, murderer.

IMO

[ortiga]

Agreed! This is the same joran Beth met that night when she first arrived. This is the true joran. Now picture in your mind how a murderer would react. joran fits the bill.
I always believed Beth when she told the world what joran said to her that night. Bumping his chest and saying, "what do you want me to do about it" with a nasty demeaner. That said alot. This is who we saw.
aruba helped cover up this crime.

They have been handed this case by Beth and now DeVries on a silver platter.
yet I have no hope in them charging joran.
Unless... they get rid of a judge........that one dang judge...... maybe the appeal today will change that.
IMO

Let's see now, who was the source of that story about Joran "bumping" his chest, with a nasty demeanor? Oh yes, the proven liar Beth Twitty. Of course CC doesn't agree with Twitty at all about that night. And he, so far, has not been proven to be a serial liar, calling people rapists, murderers and the whole 9 yards.

So, forgive me if I don't jump on the bandwagon while you go on about Joran's 20-20 quotes confirming that Joran beat his chest and acted arrogant that night Twitty sat in the car......."NO, I DIDN'T HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM, Greta."

IMO

[Heyes]

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying I condone, or respect, everything Joran has done, I'm saying I understand why he might have done it.

I'll tell you a story I've related bits and pieces of in the past. Hopefully the entire story will give you a better idea of why I feel the way I do.

I was in my early twenties, married, my wife was three months pregnant, I had a good job, had just purchased my first house, and I was on the fast track to a promising career.

Life couldn't have been a lot better. One day, out of the blue, I was accused of embezzling $35,000.00 from the company I worked for.

The accusation was made by the controller of the company, and every day or two for the next two weeks someone in the company came forward with another accusation.

There wasn't a shred of evidence I was guilty, and no one really cared that I didn't have access to company money, and simply couldn't have been guilty.

I immediately lost all my friends, the respect of my in-laws, and it was a small enough community I couldn't get a job.

My meager savings soon ran out, my ex-employer was fighting my unemployment claim, problems between my wife and me escalated, not because she thought I was guilty, but simply because of the problems and pressure.

We lost the house, she lost the baby, and filed for divorce as a condition of her parents allowing her to come back home, and there was nothing for me to do but leave town.

No charges were ever filed because there was no evidence, so naturally there was no trial, and no criminal record.

For two years every waking moment was filled with thoughts of revenge, and since I couldn't sleep, those thoughts filled my mind 24 hours a day.

I went through about eight jobs during those two years, and finally one day during a job interview, I told my entire story because I knew by then it would catch up with me sooner or later anyway.

To my surprise, my prospective employer said to me, "I'll take a chance on you if you make me one promise. Stop living in the past, and start working for the future."

Within five years I had a better job than I would have had if I had never been fired from my original job. I was only about 60 miles from my previous home, so a lot of people who had known me knew where I was, and what was happening in my life.

About two years after I started my new job my previous employer went out of business, and the guy who had been the controller got a similar job with another company. Two years later he was arrested for embezzlement, and subsequently confessed he committed the crime I had been accused of.

No one, not one single person from my previous life ever contacted me or apologized in any way.

Except for the fact my first wife had committed suicide, I have no regrets.

I think I'm a stronger, better person than I might have been otherwise, and I believe I have much better insight into others than I would have had.

Do I think I'm perfect? Of course not. But I do believe I'm more objective and less judgmental than most people, and the judgments I make are based on facts, and not emotion.

Sorry if the story bored you.
OK One: TMI
Two: I believe it's possible you may have it backwards.
Because of your experience, you think you are more objective and less judgmental than most of us!
You said you base your judgments on fact and not emotion. I'd say in light of this long story, your basing your judgements on emotion and not fact.
Now if say you were the last one to be seen with the money.... like joran was the last to be seen with Natalee then I could see how this all ties in but...............

imo

[ortiga]

all good points
I think with all the information we have had and we are getting. Its safe to say joran did something horrible to Natalee.
It left evidence.
It could be one thing, it could be a combination. Drugs, physical violence, rape, whatever it was it left evidence. That was obviously the focus when it came to what to do at that point. He knew that even if she was unconcious he couldn't call for help or leave her there. Evidence!
IMO

One thing for sure, IMO you and Beth are going to be the 2 most disillusioned people in the world if it is proven that Natalee was not raped, drugged, beat up on. I don't understand why you seem to always want that for Natalee when there is no indication any of that ever happened. I will never forget your 2 posts from the past "Can you imagine her horror".

No, nor would I try to invent a situation that has no hint of being true, just to imagine someone's horror.

IMO

[Heyes]

Let's see now, who was the source of that story about Joran "bumping" his chest, with a nasty demeanor? Oh yes, the proven liar Beth Twitty. Of course CC doesn't agree with Twitty at all about that night. And he, so far, has not been proven to be a serial liar, calling people rapists, murderers and the whole 9 yards.

So, forgive me if I don't jump on the bandwagon while you go on about Joran's 20-20 quotes confirming that Joran beat his chest and acted arrogant that night Twitty sat in the car......."NO, I DIDN'T HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM, Greta."

IMO


Beth told the truth!
The world knows it now.
your boy sunk his battleship.
Must be hard to deal with as I see your still rattling on about the poor victims mom.
sad.
IMO

[Heyes]

One thing for sure, IMO you and Beth are going to be the 2 most disillusioned people in the world if it is proven that Natalee was not raped, drugged, beat up on. I don't understand why you seem to always want that for Natalee when there is no indication any of that ever happened. I will never forget your 2 posts from the past "Can you imagine her horror".

No, nor would I try to invent a situation that has no hint of being true, just to imagine someone's horror.

IMO


yawn!
Is that the best ya got?
The truth is out!
Golden boy is toast.
Everyone knows he is responsible for whatever happened to Natalee.
Only reason to hide the body is because he did something bad to her. only reason. But you know that.The world knows that. sorry
IMO

[ortiga]

Totally agree with your last paragraph, Suki. Anybody else other than Daddy would make his precious butt help dump her. I will even stretch and say a friend might help dispose of the body. But to say "I'll take care of it sweet Joran you just go home and sleep and I'll do all the dirty work." Naw, ain't happenin'. Either he helped to dispose of her or his Dad took care of it, one or the other.

So, do you believe the other story he told on that tape wherein he and his friend carried Natalee all the way down the beach to the pier and put her in the boat?

Pick and choose from contradictory things said on the same program.

IMO

[Heyes]

So, do you believe the other story he told on that tape wherein he and his friend carried Natalee all the way down the beach to the pier and put her in the boat?

Pick and choose from contradictory things said on the same program.

IMO

Now that joran let the cat out of the bag, it's time to turn our attention to the corrupt officials in aruba and mommy and papa vandersloot. These obnoxious enablers are the next to fall.
This may get ugly!
You may not want to watch.
IMO

[ortiga]

Now that joran let the cat out of the bag, it's time to turn our attention to the corrupt officials in aruba and mommy and papa vandersloot. These obnoxious enablers are the next to fall.
This may get ugly!
You may not want to watch.
IMO

I have been watching the case all along. One thing I definitely feel is that it is not worth it to debate the case with people who use phrases like "mommy and papa vandersloot" and "obnoxious enablers", and continually try to imagine the horror that someone might have felt, regardless of proof or truth. And nearly all the rest of your flippant, never ending, baseless, remarks are so 3rd gradish, if they weren't so overwhelmingly nasty. I can't imagine that our paths would ever overlap in RL, no way we would share the same social or professional circles, for sure. For one, nearly all of my friends speak in full sentences and can spell.

IMO

[fairmaiden]

B itch w hore s lut, none of that bothers me one iota during a guy talk joy ride. Deepak used one of those words about Natalee referring to her dress and talk, and that was in a pretty mild albeit surrupticiously (sp!) recorded interview with Skeeter, when Skeeter himself used the F word. And, Beth chose to publicize the fact that Deepak's impression of Natalee was characterized in that way. She didn't care that the world thought that of her.

I have some neighbors that have kids in high school, and the word Ho is tossed all around, even in front of us grownups. So, that language doesn't bother me, it's not nearly in the same league as Twitty calling the boys gang rapers. I guess if I had a teenage daughter and a teenage son, I would sure rather hear an offhand remark to the word "Ho" than have my son accused on TV of being a gang raper, drugger, murderer.

IMO

I've always felt "Natalee's Story" being told to high school students was wrong. There WAS no proof of what was being told to them, and if we are to believe Joran NOW, it just wasn't true. I totally agree with you about that.

JMO

[Heyes]

I have been watching the case all along. One thing I definitely feel is that it is not worth it to debate the case with people who use phrases like "mommy and papa vandersloot" and "obnoxious enablers", and continually try to imagine the horror that someone might have felt, regardless of proof or truth. And nearly all the rest of your flippant, never ending, baseless, remarks are so 3rd gradish, if they weren't so overwhelmingly nasty. I can't imagine that our paths would ever overlap in RL, no way we would share the same social or professional circles, for sure. For one, nearly all of my friends speak in full sentences and can spell.

IMO


LOL
I must have hit a nerve! :)

Now try keep on topic.
to refresh your memory.
joran is toast
aruba and the vandersloots are next.
IMO

[Grandad]

OK One: TMI
Two: I believe it's possible you may have it backwards.
Because of your experience, you think you are more objective and less judgmental than most of us!
You said you base your judgments on fact and not emotion. I'd say in light of this long story, your basing your judgements on emotion and not fact.
Now if say you were the last one to be seen with the money.... like joran was the last to be seen with Natalee then I could see how this all ties in but...............

imo

What is "TMI?"

[cassidy]

I've always felt "Natalee's Story" being told to high school students was wrong. There WAS no proof of what was being told to them, and if we are to believe Joran NOW, it just wasn't true. I totally agree with you about that.

JMO
Agreed. And I also felt that it should have been presented with a warning against sending high shcool students on such trips.

JMO

[ortiga]

Agreed. And I also felt that it should have been presented with a warning against sending high shcool students on such trips.

JMO


That whole episode, to me, was just an excuse for Beth to spread the "fact" that Natalee was kidnapped and raped. To cover up the fact that she appeared to go quite willingly with Joran, possibly it was entirely her idea. And probably whatever sex there was was indeed consensual, based on the activities in C&C, no man in the world would interpret an offer for a jello shot in any other way. IMO

Twitty: "The only thing we know for sure is that Natalee was kidnapped and gangraped on the island of Aruba". Please send money.

[SaraSidle]

IMO the most ugliest comments on 20/20 is when Joran said Natalee was dumped in the ocean dead or alive. even stoned on drugs why in the world would someone admit that

[No Nic]

Just wondering if anyone heard this on (?) one of the programs last night?

A major radio station in Aruba plans to broadcast an appology to Beth !

[cassidy]

Just wondering if anyone heard this on (?) one of the programs last night?

A major radio station in Aruba plans to broadcast an appology to Beth !

What did the radio station do that it needs to apologize for?

[ortiga]

IMO the most ugliest comments on 20/20 is when Joran said Natalee was dumped in the ocean dead or alive. even stoned on drugs why in the world would someone admit that

But then he also said that he tried CPR and "everything".

[SaraSidle]

oh I am sure he was medicallly trained for all that. After saying she was "shaking". what a diagnosis that is

[Heyes]

Just wondering if anyone heard this on (?) one of the programs last night?

A major radio station in Aruba plans to broadcast an appology to Beth !

I heard that!
I'm sure there will be more apologies from those that now see the truth and are caring decent people.
IMO
Many people owe this dedicated mother an apology. But only the honest decent ones with a heart will feel the need to do what is right here.
IMO

[AMS80]

Let's see now, who was the source of that story about Joran "bumping" his chest, with a nasty demeanor? Oh yes, the proven liar Beth Twitty. Of course CC doesn't agree with Twitty at all about that night. And he, so far, has not been proven to be a serial liar, calling people rapists, murderers and the whole 9 yards.

So, forgive me if I don't jump on the bandwagon while you go on about Joran's 20-20 quotes confirming that Joran beat his chest and acted arrogant that night Twitty sat in the car......."NO, I DIDN'T HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM, Greta."

IMO

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Proven liar Beth Twitty? How about proven scumbag Joran Vandersloot?

[Heyes]

But then he also said that he tried CPR and "everything".

Oh yeah, however shaking her, then standing above her with his "friend" and just looking at her, they then determined she was dead and tossed her like garbage.
What a guy.
Sick puppy. I'm sure anita is sooooo proud of her sporter now!

Next....ALE and the vandersloots!
Time to clean up an island .
IMO

[Heyes]

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Proven liar Beth Twitty? How about proven scumbag Joran Vandersloot?


Sounds really pathetic doesn't it?
Oh well, takes all kinds they say.:shrug:
IMO

[AMS80]

So, do you believe the other story he told on that tape wherein he and his friend carried Natalee all the way down the beach to the pier and put her in the boat?

Pick and choose from contradictory things said on the same program.

IMO

I think J-Dawg was all up for admitting what made him look good. Like I said before, he was adamant about mentioning how "those *****es wanted me to come out, and Natalee wanted it." Give me a break.

I think Joran likes to give versions of the truth. Just like he was at the beach and "left her." Yah, he left her, alright.

You won't convince me that someone would admit, over and over, not even in one sitting, that he had knowledge or something to do with someone's death if they didn't. He even said he didn't know if she was dead or alive.

I have been following this case for a long time, and while I've never had the disdain you've had for Beth, I was on the fence as to whether Joran was guilty or not. Not that he should be suspected, b/c I definitely thought that he should, but if he was guilty. Now there is no question in my mind. He made his bed, almost got away with it, then had to open his big yapper.

IMO.

[Heyes]

Joran to meet with prosecutor Mos in holland day after tomorrow.
per jossy on Nancy Grace.


Do you think they'll do lunch?
:rolleyes:

I hear he's getting tons of death threats.
Wonder if he's scared? I hope he feels at least an ounce of the fear poor Natlee must have felt at the hands of this monster.
IMO

[No Nic]

Joran to meet with prosecutor Mos in holland day after tomorrow.
per jossy on Nancy Grace.


Do you think they'll do lunch?
:rolleyes:

I hear he's getting tons of death threats.
Wonder if he's scared? I hope he feels at least an ounce of the fear poor Natlee must have felt at the hands of this monster.
IMO

JoeT said he had gotten at least one death threat a day for the last 2.8 yrs. Bet that # has skyrocketed.

[Heyes]

JoeT said he had gotten at least one death threat a day for the last 2.8 yrs. Bet that # has skyrocketed.

I'm still trying to figure out why joe is even involved in this. He said yesterday that he is not defending joran just the case. Big change from all the sugar he was dripping about his client earlier.
I just have to ask though.....
What case?
joe can't practice in aruba
There are no charges, no trial. what the heck is he talking about?

Who is paying this guy? And how much?

IMO

[No Nic]

I'm still trying to figure out why joe is even involved in this. He said yesterday that he is not defending joran just the case. Big change from all the sugar he was dripping about his client earlier.
I just have to ask though.....
What case?
joe can't practice in aruba
There are no charges, no trial. what the heck is he talking about?

Who is paying this guy? And how much?

IMO


JoeT has become Jorans PR agent.

[Luke Davis]

A judge on Tuesday refused to dismiss a defamation suit against CBS and TV psychologist "Dr. Phil" McGraw brought by two brothers who were questioned in the disappearance of Natalie Holloway.

William Cremer, the lead attorney for Surinamese brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, lauded the decision by Superior Court Judge Edward A. Ferns.

"I'm going to take Dr. Phil down," he said outside the courtroom.

ModBee (http://www.modbee.com/state_wire/story/202750.html)

[No Nic]

A judge on Tuesday refused to dismiss a defamation suit against CBS and TV psychologist "Dr. Phil" McGraw brought by two brothers who were questioned in the disappearance of Natalie Holloway.

William Cremer, the lead attorney for Surinamese brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, lauded the decision by Superior Court Judge Edward A. Ferns.

"I'm going to take Dr. Phil down," he said outside the courtroom.

ModBee (http://www.modbee.com/state_wire/story/202750.html)

From the link:

But the judge gave Kalpoes lawyers another five days to satisfy the document deadline.

"The documents are relevant to the most fundamental issues in this case," Ferns stated in his ruling. "There is no other (information) which can substitute for the documents sought by the defendants due to the nature of this case."

What happens then?

[ortiga]

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Proven liar Beth Twitty? How about proven scumbag Joran Vandersloot?


Yes, Beth is a proven liar, we saw her lying on TV dozens of times. So is JVDS. Depending on the outcome, ie the veracity of what was said with the dope dealer, under the influence of drugs, at the present time it is a stand off as which one of them is the biggest liar.

[cassidy]

oh I am sure he was medicallly trained for all that. After saying she was "shaking". what a diagnosis that is

An attempt to help and a diagnosis made by a (most likely scared) 17 year old. :shrug: there was a kid here not too long ago who died from a drug/alcohol overdose. Spent the whole nite on the couch while his "friends" partied on around him. They thought he simply passed out..didn't think to check. Did they murder him? Are they responsible for his death in any way?

[fairmaiden]

I think J-Dawg was all up for admitting what made him look good. Like I said before, he was adamant about mentioning how "those *****es wanted me to come out, and Natalee wanted it." Give me a break.

I think Joran likes to give versions of the truth. Just like he was at the beach and "left her." Yah, he left her, alright.

You won't convince me that someone would admit, over and over, not even in one sitting, that he had knowledge or something to do with someone's death if they didn't. He even said he didn't know if she was dead or alive.

I have been following this case for a long time, and while I've never had the disdain you've had for Beth, I was on the fence as to whether Joran was guilty or not. Not that he should be suspected, b/c I definitely thought that he should, but if he was guilty. Now there is no question in my mind. He made his bed, almost got away with it, then had to open his big yapper.

IMO.

AMS .... I agree with your post.

I'm sort of stuck in a position where my opinion of Joran has definitely changed. I can't imagine now .... if he had NO awareness of Natalee's death, that we would have seen what we saw the other night. STILL though, some want to pick and choose those parts of Joran's "confession" that they don't think are true .... while lauding his confession as Joran FINALLY telling the truth. If one doesn't believe CERTAIN parts of his confession, how can we give credence to all of it ??

Having said that .... I have gone through this entire case, and I have criticized Beth's ACTIONS. I still think it's valid to change one's mind about Joran, but still wonder about some of the things Beth did during this entire ordeal. I don't think that's contradictory at all. I don't think it's impossible to change one's mind about Joran, and still not IMMEDIATELY fall into the midset that Beth did no wrong. I can't do that.

JMO

[SukiJane]

But then he also said that he tried CPR and "everything".

Everything? Still making excuses for Joran? Good Grief!!

Everything would have been to perform CPR, after he had called an ambulance.

But, now that I think about it, he did "everything" he could to keep himself from getting into trouble...Maybe that's what you meant.

[SukiJane]

An attempt to help and a diagnosis made by a (most likely scared) 17 year old. :shrug: there was a kid here not too long ago who died from a drug/alcohol overdose. Spent the whole nite on the couch while his "friends" partied on around him. They thought he simply passed out..didn't think to check. Did they murder him? Are they responsible for his death in any way?

Did anyone drag him outside and hide him in the bushes, and then call for a quick disposal of the body?

[Heyes]

AMS .... I agree with your post.

I'm sort of stuck in a position where my opinion of Joran has definitely changed. I can't imagine now .... if he had NO awareness of Natalee's death, that we would have seen what we saw the other night. STILL though, some want to pick and choose those parts of Joran's "confession" that they don't think are true .... while lauding his confession as Joran FINALLY telling the truth. If one doesn't believe CERTAIN parts of his confession, how can we give credence to all of it ??

Having said that .... I have gone through this entire case, and I have criticized Beth's ACTIONS. I still think it's valid to change one's mind about Joran, but still wonder about some of the things Beth did during this entire ordeal. I don't think that's contradictory at all. I don't think it's impossible to change one's mind about Joran, and still not IMMEDIATELY fall into the midset that Beth did no wrong. I can't do that.

JMO

Beth merely called a spade a spade. So what?
Now that we know that joran threw a human being away like trash, knowing that she could still be alive, is worse than anything Beth ever said or thought of saying.
This person you see now is the same person Beth saw on day 1. How anyone can critisize Beth after all this is beyond me. Joran deserves everything said about him and more. I would think you would agree on that much.
Beth has been validated. The apologies are flooding in. The rumors that came out of aruba are just that. RUmors. Beth is just a mom looking for her child, she found the person responsible for Natalee's death. She has been jacked around because of the murderers father and his connections. And the world knows it now.
imo

[ortiga]

Everything? Still making excuses for Joran? Good Grief!!

Everything would have been to perform CPR, after he had called an ambulance.

But, now that I think about it, he did "everything" he could to keep himself from getting into trouble...Maybe that's what you meant.

Think. Then read my post again, then Think. When a poster quotes one thing that Joran said, and discards another thing he said to the same "interviewer", then the lack of fairness must be pointed out.

Think before you post.

[ortiga]

Beth merely called a spade a spade. So what?
Now that we know that joran threw a human being away like trash, knowing that she could still be alive, is worse than anything Beth ever said or thought of saying.
This person you see now is the same person Beth saw on day 1. How anyone can critisize Beth after all this is beyond me. Joran deserves everything said about him and more. I would think you would agree on that much.
Beth has been validated. The apologies are flooding in. The rumors that came out of aruba are just that. RUmors. Beth is just a mom looking for her child, she found the person responsible for Natalee's death. She has been jacked around because of the murderers father and his connections. And the world knows it now.
imo

Beth is a proven liar, and nothing she said on TV about the Arubans or Dutch has been turned out to be true. Her behavior was truly a disgrace to all Americans. Making a grand leap to an assumption that what Joran said was true, when will she be apologizing to the Kalpoes, to all Arubans, to all Dutch, to the Hague, to all Americans that she offended with her behavior on TV. And when is she going to apologize to all the school children, their parents, and school administrators for declaring as a fact that her daughter was kidnapped and gang raped in Aruba, please send money. Her behavior was despicable, she should be forced to close her "non profit" if she continues to use school property to spread lies.

IMO

[No Nic]

Beth is a proven liar, and nothing she said on TV about the Arubans or Dutch has been turned out to be true. Her behavior was truly a disgrace to all Americans. Making a grand leap to an assumption that what Joran said was true, when will she be apologizing to the Kalpoes, to all Arubans, to all Dutch, to the Hague, to all Americans that she offended with her behavior on TV. And when is she going to apologize to all the school children, their parents, and school administrators for declaring as a fact that her daughter was kidnapped and gang raped in Aruba, please send money. Her behavior was despicable, she should be forced to close her "non profit" if she continues to use school property to spread lies.

IMO

"All" those Arubans don't agree with you. They are apologizing to HER.

Your behavior is despicable. Continuing to slam Beth will not make your boy look better.

[fairmaiden]

Beth merely called a spade a spade. So what?
Now that we know that joran threw a human being away like trash, knowing that she could still be alive, is worse than anything Beth ever said or thought of saying.
This person you see now is the same person Beth saw on day 1. How anyone can critisize Beth after all this is beyond me. Joran deserves everything said about him and more. I would think you would agree on that much.
Beth has been validated. The apologies are flooding in. The rumors that came out of aruba are just that. RUmors. Beth is just a mom looking for her child, she found the person responsible for Natalee's death. She has been jacked around because of the murderers father and his connections. And the world knows it now.
imo

Heyes .... I am entitled to my opinion of Beth's ACTIONS. I don't know why you seem to have difficulty with that concept. Just because my mind has certainly been changed about Joran, doesn't preclude me from criticizing Beth's ACTIONS. Yes .... I think it's likley Joran knows what happened to Natalee.

However, I watch what you post .... and it seems you're not satisfied with Joran's "confession". You don't believe certain parts of it. Ever since his confession was aired .... you don't believe what he said about certain things. You believe Joran murdered Natalee .... so do a lot of other people, even SINCE his confession was aired. You believe Paulus disposed of Natalee's body . Joran didn't SAY any of that.

As I mentioned in a previous post .... Just because I changed my opinion about Joran, doesn't mean, in my mind, Beth has been validated. They are 2 mutually exclusive things.

JMO

[SukiJane]

Think. Then read my post again, then Think. When a poster quotes one thing that Joran said, and discards another thing he said to the same "interviewer", then the lack of fairness must be pointed out.

Think before you post.

LOL...it's over now that it's over.

No more spreading rumors about Natalee floating off and living the good life in Venezuela.

No more spreading rumors about Natalee hooking up with someone else.

No more spreading rumors of Natalee taking a midnight swim and drifting out to sea.

It must suck when those you've defended have let you down so miserably. If only he would have kept his mouth shut, so that you could have continued these ridiculous rumors....LOL

[Heyes]

Heyes .... I am entitled to my opinion of Beth's ACTIONS. I don't know why you seem to have difficulty with that concept. Just because my mind has certainly been changed about Joran, doesn't preclude me from criticizing Beth's ACTIONS. Yes .... I think it's likley Joran knows what happened to Natalee.

However, I watch what you post .... and it seems you're not satisfied with Joran's "confession". You don't believe certain parts of it. Ever since his confession was aired .... you don't believe what he said about certain things. You believe Joran murdered Natalee .... so do a lot of other people, even SINCE his confession was aired. You believe Paulus disposed of Natalee's body . Joran didn't SAY any of that.

As I mentioned in a previous post .... Just because I changed my opinion about Joran, doesn't mean, in my mind, Beth has been validated. They are 2 mutually exclusive things.

JMO

Jorans confession as with most is sprinkled with lies. That's just his charactor. He changes the details to fit his situation. But he made it perfectly clear that harm came to Natalee and he arranged? the disposal of her body. The circumstantial evidence points to others being involved on perhaps differnt levels.
Everything Beth has said is because of jorans and these other peoples actions. It's all coming out now. Their actions are what incited Beths reactions. The truth is starting to break and with just what we know right now, Beth was right. So how about letting this play out and just see if maybe she wasn't right about most of it? Remmber IUPG
IMO

[SukiJane]

(snipped)

They are 2 mutually exclusive things.

JMO

This I can agree with, but it was never treated as mutually exclusive things. Those that disapproved of Beth's actions continually tried to cross the line blaming Beth for the case being unsolved, or that Natalee had run away because of her mother, or that Beth never thought something bad happened to Natalee. And even rumors that Natalee was taken off the island on the med-jet.

jmo

[ortiga]

snipped

As I mentioned in a previous post .... Just because I changed my opinion about Joran, doesn't mean, in my mind, Beth has been validated. They are 2 mutually exclusive things.

JMO

Absolutely. I will never forget what she did, she will never earn respect from me unless she starts on the list of mega-apologies that she owes so many people. Even if she did, we know that it would probably be a passle of lies.

I was just watching Dave's phone interview with NG, sounds like DV called him too, but he declined to get in on the rehearsed public mourning bit, with cameras focused a few inches away to exploit the tears, we don't know how many takes were required.

[ortiga]

LOL...it's over now that it's over.

No more spreading rumors about Natalee floating off and living the good life in Venezuela.

No more spreading rumors about Natalee hooking up with someone else.

No more spreading rumors of Natalee taking a midnight swim and drifting out to sea.

It must suck when those you've defended have let you down so miserably. If only he would have kept his mouth shut, so that you could have continued these ridiculous rumors....LOL

OK, so I won't suggest that you "think" anymore, big waste of typing time, lost cause.

[ortiga]

Jorans confession as with most is sprinkled with lies. That's just his charactor. He changes the details to fit his situation. But he made it perfectly clear that harm came to Natalee and he arranged? the disposal of her body. The circumstantial evidence points to others being involved on perhaps differnt levels.
Everything Beth has said is because of jorans and these other peoples actions. It's all coming out now. Their actions are what incited Beths reactions. The truth is starting to break and with just what we know right now, Beth was right. So how about letting this play out and just see if maybe she wasn't right about most of it? Remmber IUPG
IMO


No, he didn't say that harm came to her.

No, the circumstancial evidence does not point to "others" being involved.

No. everything that Beth said is not because of Joran's and "these" peoples actions. Everything Beth said was designed to get money for making up things that she claims happened to Natalee. All of that was a lie.

Most of what Beth said were lies or unproven. Like, for instance, the "fact" that she had possession of Joran's statement that he took Natalee to his house and had sex with her there. Too bad she never produced the statement as it drew so much attention to her lack of veracity. Like FM said, the two (Joran's behavior and Beth's behavior) are mutually exclusive, she is an adult and cannot blame her behavior on anyone. Like, for instance, in her book when she said Natalee was not entirely to blame for Jug's divorce from her. What a horrible thing to say, and I don't believe that anyone but Beth was responsible for Jug's divorce filed for the day after she tried another suit to get money from someone, anyone.

IMO

[cassidy]

Did anyone drag him outside and hide him in the bushes, and then call for a quick disposal of the body?

Nope, they just partied on around him and didn't worry at all.

[No Nic]

Absolutely. I will never forget what she did, she will never earn respect from me unless she starts on the list of mega-apologies that she owes so many people. Even if she did, we know that it would probably be a passle of lies.

I was just watching Dave's phone interview with NG, sounds like DV called him too, but he declined to get in on the rehearsed public mourning bit, with cameras focused a few inches away to exploit the tears, we don't know how many takes were required.

Aruba is apologizing to Beth !!! They GET IT, why can't you?

meowwwwwwww ??

[cassidy]

I guess that to some of you, this confession ends the case. I still feel that there is something missing. So I will remain on the fence here and keep watching. I don't think it is over yet.

[SukiJane]

Nope, they just partied on around him and didn't worry at all.

Too bad Joran didn't do that, because then Natalee's body could have been taken back home.

[SukiJane]

I guess that to some of you, this confession ends the case. I still feel that there is something missing. So I will remain on the fence here and keep watching. I don't think it is over yet.

I don't think it ends the case, because we don't know why she died or what happened prior to her death, but it certainly ends stupid idiotic speculations that Natalee was whisked away on the med-jet, that she ran away, or that someone else came along after Joran.

jmo

[No Nic]

I guess that to some of you, this confession ends the case. I still feel that there is something missing. So I will remain on the fence here and keep watching. I don't think it is over yet.


It will not be over for me until Joran pays the price (one way or another) for throwing Natalee into the ocean, maybe an alive Natalee. No way for him to prove she was dead. He is the lowest form of life, as black-hearted as they come.

[terrysdoor]

I guess that to some of you, this confession ends the case. I still feel that there is something missing. So I will remain on the fence here and keep watching. I don't think it is over yet.

Hi Cassidy i have to agree with you here are we now suppose to believe what Joran has said?Maybe like just from the start some of it may be true but to me as well something is missing.In his confession he never mentions the Kalpoe brothers IIRC and of course this my opinion

[ortiga]

I guess that to some of you, this confession ends the case. I still feel that there is something missing. So I will remain on the fence here and keep watching. I don't think it is over yet.

Good for you, Cassidy. Joran's ramblings are certainly food for thought, but there are many contradictions, I too am waiting before convicting him in my mind, much less on a message board. Even on GMA Monday Twitty was still referring to Natalee's "perpetrators", she is having a hard time coalescing her earlier unfounded accusations with this latest story, hard time realizing that everything she claimed that happened to Natalee couldn't have happened if she wants to adopt the latest story. As though she is stretching to add yet another heinous crime to all the others she has accused them of. Nevermind that illegal disposal of a body is a 6 month offense.

If he were going to spill the beans, why say silly things like he carried Natalee several blocks worth of space down the beach, with no one noticing, and I guess no one on the pier in front of the hotel noticed anyway. Why say he used a phone where there was no local service to that phone? Among other inconsistencies.

Also, I want to hear what Patrick said all that time, and would like to know of possible convictions he may have in his past.

One very big, huge I might say, problem with this whole latest twist, is that there is no logical explanation for why Patrick and PV stopped the sting right in the middle, before there were any details substantiated, and there are many details missing. I do wonder if there were tapes AFTER the ones we heard, were Joran may have contradicted his "confession".

Anyway, I hope your bottom isn't too sore being up there on the fence all this time!

[ortiga]

Too bad Joran didn't do that, because then Natalee's body could have been taken back home.

All mothers should caution their daughters/sons about drinking too much, because sometimes fate catches up with people that place themselves into risky positions.

And, IMO, parents should not facilitate or enable unchaperoned vacations for their children in which unlimited alcohol is provided, already paid for. Especially when that activity is not legal in their own home country.


IMO

[SukiJane]

All mothers should caution their daughters/sons about drinking too much, because sometimes fate catches up with people that place themselves into risky positions.

And, IMO, parents should not facilitate or enable unchaperoned vacations for their children in which unlimited alcohol is provided, already paid for. Especially when that activity is not legal in their own home country.


IMO

yes, nothing can really be said in defense of Joran's actions, can they? Only pathetic little slaps at the victims in this case.

Joran van der Sloot is a pathetic excuse for a human being and a real eye opener as to the sick people that can sometimes cross our paths.

[Grandad]

Aruba is apologizing to Beth !!! They GET IT, why can't you?

meowwwwwwww ??


Aruba is apologizing to Beth?

Is this something from your personal psychic?

[No Nic]

yes, nothing can really be said in defense of Joran's actions, can they? Only pathetic little slaps at the victims in this case.

Joran van der Sloot is a pathetic excuse for a human being and a real eye opener as to the sick people that can sometimes cross our paths.

Yep, even when thier little sociopath tells his black-hearted story...they continue to blame Beth, Natalee, DeVries, Patrick......ANYONE but their "sporter" (is smoking pot a sport??). And then "all he did was dispose of a body", never mind that she may have been alive. Minimize, minimize, imo, puts them in the same category as their boy Joran.

[fairmaiden]

This I can agree with, but it was never treated as mutually exclusive things. Those that disapproved of Beth's actions continually tried to cross the line blaming Beth for the case being unsolved, or that Natalee had run away because of her mother, or that Beth never thought something bad happened to Natalee. And even rumors that Natalee was taken off the island on the med-jet.

jmo

I'm not sure where you get the idea that those who criticized Beth's actions, blamed her for the case not being solved. I never thought there was enough evidence to prove kidnapping, rape, and murder, period !! It was that simple for me, at least. What I always maintained was .... neither you nor I, or any of us really, have/had any idea about the dynamics in that household. It was my opinion, because of one of the first posters .... where Beth was telling Natalee "We need to talk" .... it was just my opinion, that sounded like there was some problems at home. I didn't believe that was something one would direct to her daughter if she thought she had been "kidnapped", which was always Beth's assertion.

I always had a problem with those who somehow determined from the very beginning of this case, that Joran and the Kalpoe Bros. kidnapped, gangraped, and murdered Natalee. I have no idea how anyone could determine that from the beginning. They might "assume" it .... but to stand by that steadfastly from day one .... never ask any questions .... just accept it, was not something I could do. I still have many questions about many things, all of which make me ponder things.

ETA .... It wasn't so much me thinking Natalee voluntarily left. It was what I thought Beth thought, if that makes any sense.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

I don't think it ends the case, because we don't know why she died or what happened prior to her death, but it certainly ends stupid idiotic speculations that Natalee was whisked away on the med-jet, that she ran away, or that someone else came along after Joran.

jmo

Well .... I think the topmost opinion of mine was that she died accidentally.
THAT'S what Joran said happened .... do you believe that ??

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Good for you, Cassidy. Joran's ramblings are certainly food for thought, but there are many contradictions, I too am waiting before convicting him in my mind, much less on a message board. Even on GMA Monday Twitty was still referring to Natalee's "perpetrators", she is having a hard time coalescing her earlier unfounded accusations with this latest story, hard time realizing that everything she claimed that happened to Natalee couldn't have happened if she wants to adopt the latest story. As though she is stretching to add yet another heinous crime to all the others she has accused them of. Nevermind that illegal disposal of a body is a 6 month offense.

If he were going to spill the beans, why say silly things like he carried Natalee several blocks worth of space down the beach, with no one noticing, and I guess no one on the pier in front of the hotel noticed anyway. Why say he used a phone where there was no local service to that phone? Among other inconsistencies.

Also, I want to hear what Patrick said all that time, and would like to know of possible convictions he may have in his past.

One very big, huge I might say, problem with this whole latest twist, is that there is no logical explanation for why Patrick and PV stopped the sting right in the middle, before there were any details substantiated, and there are many details missing. I do wonder if there were tapes AFTER the ones we heard, were Joran may have contradicted his "confession".

Anyway, I hope your bottom isn't too sore being up there on the fence all this time!

This is one of the huge problems I have, ortiga. Peter DeVries says he has "SOLVED" this case. Now, I think that's a bold, very ambitious statement for him to make, because one can only believe he SOLVED this case, if everyone is going to believe what Joran said. Now I go to other boards, and I see those who have felt Joran was guilty all along, say they don't believe his confession, or more correctly they don't believe PARTS of his confession. I believe now, he does know what happened to Natalee, but I'm still not sure to what extent. Heyes said in an earlier post, that his "confession is riddled with lies".

To say this case is SOLVED is far from the truth, I believe.

JMO

[SukiJane]

Yep, even when thier little sociopath tells his black-hearted story...they continue to blame Beth, Natalee, DeVries, Patrick......ANYONE but their "sporter" (is smoking pot a sport??). And then "all he did was dispose of a body", never mind that she may have been alive. Minimize, minimize, imo, puts them in the same category as their boy Joran.

He's worthless, and even if he's never charged with a crime in this case his life will be nothing but Sh*t. Look at the road he's already trying to take, a life of crime, gambling debts...honestly though he was already on that road before he met Natalee. The juvenile delinquent behavior, the fights, his anger issues.

Criticizing Beth for her actions toward Aruba, when all the while he could have told the truth and stopped all that. His little photo shop job with him and Natalee. He thought she might have hooked up with someone else comments. Letting his mom rattle on about enough is enough...
It all makes me so sick!

Joran is so far out there, I don't understand how anyone could relate to him!

[SukiJane]

I'm not sure where you get the idea that those who criticized Beth's actions, blamed her for the case not being solved. I never thought there was enough evidence to prove kidnapping, rape, and murder, period !! It was that simple for me, at least. What I always maintained was .... neither you nor I, or any of us really, have/had any idea about the dynamics in that household. It was my opinion, because of one of the first posters .... where Beth was telling Natalee "We need to talk" .... it was just my opinion, that sounded like there was some problems at home. I didn't believe that was something one would direct to her daughter if she thought she had been "kidnapped", which was always Beth's assertion.

I always had a problem with those who somehow determined from the very beginning of this case, that Joran and the Kalpoe Bros. kidnapped, gangraped, and murdered Natalee. I have no idea how anyone could determine that from the beginning. They might "assume" it .... but to stand by that steadfastly from day one .... never ask any questions .... just accept it, was not something I could do. I still have many questions about many things, all of which make me ponder things.

ETA .... It wasn't so much me thinking Natalee voluntarily left. It was what I thought Beth thought, if that makes any sense.

JMO

Your first sentence just blows my mind, FM...you've never seen that??

Yeah we all know about the assumptions in this case. We've all had to assume things, and speculate on things, and we've all had more questions than answers. I really don't think you had more questions than me, it's just that your questions were directed more toward Beth and her actions, and my questions were directed more toward the suspects, their actions, and ALE.

jmo

[ortiga]

Yep, even when thier little sociopath tells his black-hearted story...they continue to blame Beth, Natalee, DeVries, Patrick......ANYONE but their "sporter" (is smoking pot a sport??). And then "all he did was dispose of a body", never mind that she may have been alive. Minimize, minimize, imo, puts them in the same category as their boy Joran.


I guess it is just beyond your capabilities to realize that there are many facets to this case, and all are worth discussion. That is too bad, I'm sorry for you.

[ortiga]

This is one of the huge problems I have, ortiga. Peter DeVries says he has "SOLVED" this case. Now, I think that's a bold, very ambitious statement for him to make, because one can only believe he SOLVED this case, if everyone is going to believe what Joran said. Now I go to other boards, and I see those who have felt Joran was guilty all along, say they don't believe his confession, or more correctly they don't believe PARTS of his confession. I believe now, he does know what happened to Natalee, but I'm still not sure to what extent. Heyes said in an earlier post, that his "confession is riddled with lies".

To say this case is SOLVED is far from the truth, I believe.

JMO

If all of us can realize (or most of us, lol) that DV recordings of Joran's "confession" fall short of proof, then we can only ask why he didn't continue taping for another few days to get defining details. Really, it's so obvious to me that something went wrong in their "investigation", probably scarface and Joran kept talking on tapes that PV has withheld from view.

[monaLiSakitty]

I watched 20/20 also, and I have to say that Patrick guy is one scary dude in my opinion, and his fake tears were really pathetic, but I do believe he was able to pull some truth from Joran. I've always thought Joran was a sorry excuse for a human being, and my feelings certainly didn't change much after seeing him talk about Natalee's death.

Did anyone notice the Bayer aspirin commercial with the lady that says she died from cardiac arrest (I think that is what she said), and was taken to the hospital and given shock treatment and brought back to life. Interesting slot for that ad, I thought.

:rose: For Natalee, it upsets me so much to think her last moments on earth were spent with this uncaring lying sack of poo, with no conscience, no remorse, and as he put it...just a lucky guy, with higher powers helping him....Puke Puke Puke.

jmo

I too noticed that Bayer commercial and thought the same exact thing!

[SukiJane]

This is one of the huge problems I have, ortiga. Peter DeVries says he has "SOLVED" this case. Now, I think that's a bold, very ambitious statement for him to make, because one can only believe he SOLVED this case, if everyone is going to believe what Joran said. Now I go to other boards, and I see those who have felt Joran was guilty all along, say they don't believe his confession, or more correctly they don't believe PARTS of his confession. I believe now, he does know what happened to Natalee, but I'm still not sure to what extent. Heyes said in an earlier post, that his "confession is riddled with lies".

To say this case is SOLVED is far from the truth, I believe.

JMO

It matters not what any of us believe here on the message boards or what Peter DeVries believes. The case is solved if evidence corroborates his confession. Whether that will ever happen with all the fumbling ALE did in the very early crucial hours of this case remains to be seen. I think it won't, but that's just my opinion.

[cassidy]

It matters not what any of us believe here on the message boards or what Peter DeVries believes. The case is solved if evidence corroborates his confession. Whether that will ever happen with all the fumbling ALE did in the very early crucial hours of this case remains to be seen. I think it won't, but that's just my opinion.

IMO the very early crucial hours of this case were lost by the actions of the MB group who conducted their OWN investigation. But again, that's just my opinion.

[ortiga]

IMO the very early crucial hours of this case were lost by the actions of the MB group who conducted their OWN investigation. But again, that's just my opinion.


I wish the truth of Natalee's call to her Mom would come out. That would explain a lot about why Beth thought Natalee had voluntarily missed her plane, and stormed the "kidnapper's lair". As though anyone would do that without even letting the police know they were tracking down the "kidnappers".

That's why I say there are many facets to the case, Natalee may have been very angry at her mother and or stepfather, and that could be why she acted out in the bar.

There is a lot of blame to go around in the case, even CC said that Joran was on the verge of disclosing something until the posse started swearing at him. I believe the phrase was "you Aruban *****holes". Who knows what would have happened that night if the posse hadn't been so aggressive.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

3 on 1? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcNOJDcvx2A)


I am beginning to have my doubts about this guy but he is interesting.


IMO

[fairmaiden]

3 on 1? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcNOJDcvx2A)




I am beginning to have my doubts about this guy but he is interesting.


IMO

Luke, I always get the impression when I watch this guy, that he is peddling his book !!

However all of it begs the question. IF what this guy says is even remotely true .... did Peter DeVries actually SOLVE this case ??

JMO

[HiLife]

<snipped>

There is a lot of blame to go around in the case, even CC said that Joran was on the verge of disclosing something until the posse started swearing at him. I believe the phrase was "you Aruban *****holes". Who knows what would have happened that night if the posse hadn't been so aggressive.

IMO

Wrong, as usual. Read the Vanity Fair article again - It was PAULUS who interrupted the conversation with CC where Joran was about to disclose something. What was Paulus hiding? Oh, yeah...I mean Daury=Paulus. :rolleyes:

All is moot anyway, as now it appears ALE knew about Natalee shaking because they asked Beth and Jug if Natalee had had seizures or Epilepsy within the first 48hours the Hollways were on the island.

This means Joran had to have said something back then - but the ALE did NOTHING.

Shameful.

[HiLife]

I don't think it ends the case, because we don't know why she died or what happened prior to her death, but it certainly ends stupid idiotic speculations that Natalee was whisked away on the med-jet, that she ran away, or that someone else came along after Joran.

jmo

Thanks , Joran, for clearing up all your supporters' idiotic speculations like:

Natalee floated off benignly into the sea
Natalee ran away from home
Natalee was in an Island crack house
Natalee was murdered by someone else who came along after Joran
Natalee used the key cards at the HI after Joran says he left her
Natalee is a sex slave in another country
Natalee was whisked away in a med-jet (thanks, Suki, I'd forgotten that one!)

[Luke Davis]

Thanks , Joran, for clearing up all your supporters' idiotic speculations like:

Natalee floated off benignly into the sea
Natalee ran away from home
Natalee was in an Island crack house
Natalee was murdered by someone else who came along after Joran
Natalee used the key cards at the HI after Joran says he left her
Natalee was whisked away in a med-jet (thanks, Suki, I'd forgotten that one!)

That helps. :hat:

Of course, now we have another dozen rumors and more questions.

[HiLife]

It will not be over for me until Joran pays the price (one way or another) for throwing Natalee into the ocean, maybe an alive Natalee. No way for him to prove she was dead. He is the lowest form of life, as black-hearted as they come.

These tapes are not enough evidence in and of themselves.....legally.

However, the TRUTH has been exposed about this rapist/murderer and he will forever be known as a soul-less sub-human being who was out illegally drinking, gambling, out to prey on an innocent girl.

This vile POS and his vile POS parents will forever live with the stigma of what this murderer cold-heartedly did (and possibly the father, Paulus, if it can be proven that it was HE the real "Daury") - he dumped a girl, not knowing (or caring) if she was alive or dead, into a cold, dark ocean.

imo

[Luke Davis]

A shocking, taped admission from Joran van der Sloot may explain what happened to Natalee Holloway! Larry talks to the journalist who uncovered the story. Plus, Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway.

[HiLife]

That helps. :hat:

Of course, now we have another dozen rumors and more questions.
Yep, now ALE have many, many more questions and of course, other avenues to pursue. Let's hope they are not still the same, incompetent fools they have been from the beginning.

They KNEW about the seizures. Otherwise, why would they have asked the Holloways family in those first 48 hours? How could they have possibly known this? THe only answer is: Joran. The soul-less monster.

[HiLife]

It matters not what any of us believe here on the message boards or what Peter DeVries believes. The case is solved if evidence corroborates his confession. Whether that will ever happen with all the fumbling ALE did in the very early crucial hours of this case remains to be seen. I think it won't, but that's just my opinion.

A ship of FOOLS, those ALE.

Botched at best - cover up at worst. They KNEW about those seizures in the first 48 hours. :flamemad: :flamemad:

[No Nic]

I guess it is just beyond your capabilities to realize that there are many facets to this case, and all are worth discussion. That is too bad, I'm sorry for you.


Oh, please......feel sorry for me? If I believed that, I would tell you...don't bother, I don't need it.

And also, you do not know me, so keep your speculation about my "capabilities" off the boards. Remember, you are always sooooo quick to play monitor and say it is against TOS.

[HiLife]

Oh, please......feel sorry for me? If I believed that, I would tell you...don't bother, I don't need it.

And also, you do not know me, so keep your speculation about my "capabilities" off the boards. Remember, you are always sooooo quick to play monitor and say it is against TOS.

Hey! I'm still laughing over your "Is smoking weed a sport?" LOLOLOL!!! :beer:

[No Nic]

These tapes are not enough evidence in and of themselves.....legally.

However, the TRUTH has been exposed about this rapist/murderer and he will forever be known as a soul-less sub-human being who was out illegally drinking, gambling, out to prey on an innocent girl.

This vile POS and his vile POS parents will forever live with the stigma of what this murderer cold-heartedly did (and possibly the father, Paulus, if it can be proven that it was HE the real "Daury") - he dumped a girl, not knowing (or caring) if she was alive or dead, into a cold, dark ocean.

imo

I know that there is little to no chance he will be charged and convicted. The good ol' boys of the ALE, Joran and Daulus made sure there would be no evidence of a crime and no body recovery, even tho ALL ROADS led back to JK2.

There are other ways to pay for a crime and I think Joran has just received his downpayment and full payment will be forthcoming.

imo

[HiLife]

I know that there is little to no chance he will be charged and convicted. The good ol' boys of the ALE, Joran and Daulus made sure there would be no evidence of a crime and no body recovery, even tho ALL ROADS led back to JK2.

There are other ways to pay for a crime and I think Joran has just received his downpayment and full payment will be forthcoming.imo

Perfection, my dear!

[ortiga]

Wrong, as usual. Read the Vanity Fair article again - It was PAULUS who interrupted the conversation with CC where Joran was about to disclose something. What was Paulus hiding? Oh, yeah...I mean Daury=Paulus. :rolleyes:

All is moot anyway, as now it appears ALE knew about Natalee shaking because they asked Beth and Jug if Natalee had had seizures or Epilepsy within the first 48hours the Hollways were on the island.

This means Joran had to have said something back then - but the ALE did NOTHING.

Shameful.

Actually it is you that are in error again, spreading misinformation.

"Croes could feel Joran opening up; he appeared to be on the verge of an admission. Then, from the driveway, the voice of one of the Alabama men rose: "Well, you Aruban assholes better get your act together, and now!"

VF

[ortiga]

A shocking, taped admission from Joran van der Sloot may explain what happened to Natalee Holloway! Larry talks to the journalist who uncovered the story. Plus, Natalee's mother, Beth Holloway.

Just like in the olden days! Probably good for the "non" "profit". She must have so many decisions to make about clothes, waterproof eye-makeup, script, ...........all the while she just entered her mourning period.

[ortiga]

Oh, please......feel sorry for me? If I believed that, I would tell you...don't bother, I don't need it.

And also, you do not know me, so keep your speculation about my "capabilities" off the boards. Remember, you are always sooooo quick to play monitor and say it is against TOS.

:rose:

[ortiga]

These tapes are not enough evidence in and of themselves.....legally.

However, the TRUTH has been exposed about this rapist/murderer and he will forever be known as a soul-less sub-human being who was out illegally drinking, gambling, out to prey on an innocent girl.

This vile POS and his vile POS parents will forever live with the stigma of what this murderer cold-heartedly did (and possibly the father, Paulus, if it can be proven that it was HE the real "Daury") - he dumped a girl, not knowing (or caring) if she was alive or dead, into a cold, dark ocean.

imo

Do you ever listen to how your own posts sound? I would be so embarrassed if I were you.

[julianella]

IMO the very early crucial hours of this case were lost by the actions of the MB group who conducted their OWN investigation. But again, that's just my opinion.

Joran was spoken to by police how many times now??? Ho many times did he lie? He was the last seen with her, he was the only one who REALLY knew where that was, so therefore he is the one who stole these early hurs of this investigation. Even if he was angry with the MB group, even if he didn't like how HE was approached, he could have been up front and honest with the police. By him doing that which IMO was to stall time..... he Stole those crucial hours.

I don't think this case is solved, but I do believe thanks to this new tape it is on its way to being solved. I hope they find something in the water search!

Ho many times are we going to hear the sorry excuse... I lied....... I lied about the Hi story, I lied about the beach story, I lied about the sex story, and ho many excuses do people need to make for these lies. He lied cause he was scared, or because he was angry, or because he wanted to be cool and make an impression! Joran is sick IMO! He is twisted and sick! Anyone who can sit there for how many years and lie, and change his story and play the games he is playing all the while there is a missing girl on he was last seen leaving with........ SICK! :(

One thing I wish no make that 2 I wish Deepak and Satish would come out and spill their side and I wish that Patrick would have asked about their direct involvement?????

All IMO

[ortiga]

Joran was spoken to by police how many times now??? Ho many times did he lie? He was the last seen with her, he was the only one who REALLY knew where that was, so therefore he is the one who stole these early hurs of this investigation. Even if he was angry with the MB group, even if he didn't like how HE was approached, he could have been up front and honest with the police. By him doing that which IMO was to stall time..... he Stole those crucial hours.

I don't think this case is solved, but I do believe thanks to this new tape it is on its way to being solved. I hope they find something in the water search!

Ho many times are we going to hear the sorry excuse... I lied....... I lied about the Hi story, I lied about the beach story, I lied about the sex story, and ho many excuses do people need to make for these lies. He lied cause he was scared, or because he was angry, or because he wanted to be cool and make an impression! Joran is sick IMO! He is twisted and sick! Anyone who can sit there for how many years and lie, and change his story and play the games he is playing all the while there is a missing girl on he was last seen leaving with........ SICK! :(

One thing I wish no make that 2 I wish Deepak and Satish would come out and spill their side and I wish that Patrick would have asked about their direct involvement?????

All IMO

Hi Julianella,

It's very suspicious that Patrick and PV did not continue the sting to confirm details. I suspect that there are additional tapes, after the ones we saw, that do not support the position PV wanted to present on his show.

[HiLife]

Do you ever listen to how your own posts sound? I would be so embarrassed if I were you.

Look in a mirror, babe. :rolleyes: The amount of things wrong you've gotten about this case is embarassing. No apologies for Beth yet? You owe her big time! The truth about the POS Joran hurts, doesn't it? Backing such a POS is an embarassment!

[julianella]

Hi Julianella,

It's very suspicious that Patrick and PV did not continue the sting to confirm details. I suspect that there are additional tapes, after the ones we saw, that do not support the position PV wanted to present on his show.


Hi Ortiga.

I was realy in shock watching that. I neve thoguht of more tapes, actually I was just in shock over Joran and they way he acted and talked, and wow!

I REALLY REALLY hope Deepak and Satish speak out!!!!! Especially since Joran is claiming now he walked home.......which supports Deepak and Satish's lawyer saying they did not pick Joran up... I am sooooo very crious about them now.

I am 100% convinced Natalee is dead! I also believe she is in the ocean. I also believe Joran has known she was there for this entire time. I am however now on the fence on Deepak and Satish! imo

[HiLife]

Hi Ortiga.

I was realy in shock watching that. I neve thoguht of more tapes, actually I was just in shock over Joran and they way he acted and talked, and wow!

I REALLY REALLY hope Deepak and Satish speak out!!!!! Especially since Joran is claiming now he walked home.......which supports Deepak and Satish's lawyer saying they did not pick Joran up... I am sooooo very crious about them now.

I am 100% convinced Natalee is dead! I also believe she is in the ocean. I also believe Joran has known she was there for this entire time. I am however now on the fence on Deepak and Satish! imo

Hi Julianella!

They said they had about 20 hours of tape, and that it was basically Joran saying those same vile things, over and over in different ways. They apparently are in the hands of Hans Mos and he has viewed all of it. We can only hope ALE doesn't botch the case yet again!

As far as Deepak and Satish, they may be exonerated, but in my eyes, they are not innocent. They didn't even have the decency to help the Holloways find their daughter (at best). For this alone, they should have some kind of punishment (if that is ALL they did)

[ortiga]

Look in a mirror, babe. :rolleyes: The amount of things wrong you've gotten about this case is embarassing. No apologies for Beth yet? You owe her big time! The truth about the POS Joran hurts, doesn't it? Backing such a POS is an embarassment!


What is there to apologize to Beth about? :shrug: I still think she exhibited the most despicable public behavior of anyone in this case. She had no right.

We all hypothesized based on the known facts of the case, but Beth did not limit herself to that. Beth publicly accused the boys of kidnapping, gang rape, predatorship, taking a life, and accused the families and the Arubans, Dutch, Hague, of much more too. She tried to hurt Aruban children and families, all the meanwhile trying to get money out of the public in America. She lied repeatedly. She lied to school children on public property about what was known about the case. She lied about Natalee's behavior, she called her daughter passive aggressive in print, she said at least 3 times in her book that she had warned Natalee about misbehaving in Aruba, thus trying to put it all on Natalee and exempting herself, Beth, from any responsibility for choosing a drinking tour for her daughter, unchaperoned.

She is the one that should really shut up, and if indeed, she really is "mourning", she should stay off the TV.

[ortiga]

Hi Ortiga.

I was realy in shock watching that. I neve thoguht of more tapes, actually I was just in shock over Joran and they way he acted and talked, and wow!

I REALLY REALLY hope Deepak and Satish speak out!!!!! Especially since Joran is claiming now he walked home.......which supports Deepak and Satish's lawyer saying they did not pick Joran up... I am sooooo very crious about them now.

I am 100% convinced Natalee is dead! I also believe she is in the ocean. I also believe Joran has known she was there for this entire time. I am however now on the fence on Deepak and Satish! imo

It's hard to tell what is true or not. PV and Patrick would have realized it, and anyone in their right mind would have continued to tape until they got some consistent details. As it is, they leave their own motives open to question, DV hardly solved the case, just put out more questions.

I think Satish and Deepak are very soon going to win big bucks. Millions.

[HiLife]

What is there to apologize to Beth about? :shrug: I still think she exhibited the most despicable public behavior of anyone in this case. She had no right.

We all hypothesized based on the known facts of the case, but Beth did not limit herself to that. Beth publicly accused the boys of kidnapping, gang rape, predatorship, taking a life, and accused the families and the Arubans, Dutch, Hague, of much more too. She tried to hurt Aruban children and families. She lied repeatedly. She is the one that should really shut up, and if indeed, she really is "mourning", she should stay off the TV.

Keep telling yourself all of the above falsehoods. Something to make you feel better about backing a lying, druggie, gambling, criminal, murdering thug. Beth was RIGHT about Joran all along and had every right to say those things and MORE.

Joran ALONE has hurt everyone on island of Aruba. Wonder if he was smirking and laughing when the poor, Arubans took days off of work to search for the girl he had killed? How about when the Dutch M-16s were flying over, trying to detect where Natalee was?

I hope the whole Van der Sloot family gets rocked with a major civil law suit, not only from the Holloways, but from Aruba and the Netherlands for the massive expenses! Wonder how much drugs Joran will have to sell to pay that back? Or how many poker hands he needs to win?

I would be mighty embarassed if I had defended him as long as you have. I think this is why the die-hards keep defending him - it's too long of a fall to admit you were wrong about Joran.

Must be lonely being a joran defender these days. :rose:

[julianella]

Hi Julianella!

They said they had about 20 hours of tape, and that it was basically Joran saying those same vile things, over and over in different ways. They apparently are in the hands of Hans Mos and he has viewed all of it. We can only hope ALE doesn't botch the case yet again!

As far as Deepak and Satish, they may be exonerated, but in my eyes, they are not innocent. They didn't even have the decency to help the Holloways find their daughter (at best). For this alone, they should have some kind of punishment (if that is ALL they did)

That show made me sick!!!! How in the world can someone be so cruel????????

I do gree they are wrong for not coming forward sooner. But to be honest I think they are being set up in this alibi! I could be wrong. I just think more of this is on Jorans shoulders. I hope they come out!!!!!!! I hope they speak! I hope they spill it! mabe too little to late and for that I don't pity them but I am not sure they are diectly involved. imo

[julianella]

It's hard to tell what is true or not. PV and Patrick would have realized it, and anyone in their right mind would have continued to tape until they got some consistent details. As it is, they leave their own motives open to question, DV hardly solved the case, just put out more questions.

I think Satish and Deepak are very soon going to win big bucks. Millions.

I know I was thinking why didn't they keep it going jut a little longer.

I don't think they are going to get millions. I don't think they deserve money. I do think they are hold back info that could have helped. But I am just not sure they are actually directly involved in the disappearance...... As for the Phil tape..... I don't know. It as wrong......... IF it is a fake...... But at the same time isn't it wrong to lie and hold back info on a missing persons case? For that reason alone they should not get paid. IMO :shrug:

[HiLife]

That show made me sick!!!! How in the world can someone be so cruel????????

I do gree they are wrong for not coming forward sooner. But to be honest I think they are being set up in this alibi! I could be wrong. I just think more of this is on Jorans shoulders. I hope they come out!!!!!!! I hope they speak! I hope they spill it! mabe too little to late and for that I don't pity them but I am not sure they are diectly involved. imo

I don't think they will come out any time soon because they are holding out for the big bucks from Dr. Phil. If they didn't bother to help a family find a young woman who had been murdered, they are almost as despicable as Joran and I don't expect them to be of any help.

I think it's so funny that Joran called them "idiots" and "losers" - yet THEY will be the ones getting the fat compensation (from Dr. Phil) that Joran and his greedy parents wanted!

They have lost everything - their reputation, their credibility, their respect - everything that matters in this life in order to live a decent life. They are paying a high price for being the POS enablers they are and for being stubborn and not listening that their son had a real problem. Wonder if they've opened their eyes yet?

I don't think they have, because it was said on GMA today that his POS enabler parents are "worried" that Joran might commit suicide. :rolleyes: They still don't realize he loves himself too much and if they're looking for sympathy, good luck, NO ONE is sympathetic to this - probably welcoming it.

imo

[julianella]

I don't think they will come out any time soon because they are holding out for the big bucks from Dr. Phil. If they didn't bother to help a family find a young woman who had been murdered, they are almost as despicable as Joran and I don't expect them to be of any help.

I think it's so funny that Joran called them "idiots" and "losers" - yet THEY will be the ones getting the fat compensation (from Dr. Phil) that Joran and his greedy parents wanted!

They have lost everything - their reputation, their credibility, their respect - everything that matters in this life in order to live a decent life. They are paying a high price for being the POS enablers they are and for being stubborn and not listening that their son had a real problem. Wonder if they've opened their eyes yet?

I don't think they have, because it was said on GMA today that his POS enabler parents are "worried" that Joran might commit suicide. :rolleyes: They still don't realize he loves himself too much and if they're looking for sympathy, good luck, NO ONE is sympathetic to this - probably welcoming it.

imo


At the risk of beign bashed on here.......... I personally think the ONLY reason they are worried is because one of them are also in the "know" about that night! To be frank I don't buy into the whole teens with power on that island.... but I do believe there are certain people with powerful friends......... COP's, Judges, Lawyers........ IMO I thin his referecne to knowing people.... and people with power....... has nothing to do with "Daury"! imo

[Heyes]

This is one of the huge problems I have, ortiga. Peter DeVries says he has "SOLVED" this case. Now, I think that's a bold, very ambitious statement for him to make, because one can only believe he SOLVED this case, if everyone is going to believe what Joran said. Now I go to other boards, and I see those who have felt Joran was guilty all along, say they don't believe his confession, or more correctly they don't believe PARTS of his confession. I believe now, he does know what happened to Natalee, but I'm still not sure to what extent. Heyes said in an earlier post, that his "confession is riddled with lies".

To say this case is SOLVED is far from the truth, I believe.

JMO

Um if your going to quote me, let me help you, I said "sprinkled with lies". lol
When asked if joran realized that she could have been alive when he had her dumped into the sea, and Jorans answer was, "YEAH" with a little toss of his head and a look on his face that screamed *so what!*.........
I have to ask..........What part of INTENT TO KILL, do you not understand?
imo

[Heyes]

I guess it is just beyond your capabilities to realize that there are many facets to this case, and all are worth discussion. That is too bad, I'm sorry for you.


Ever since joran opened his big mouth and admitted he killed Natalee, you've been attacking every Beth supporter on this board on a personal basis. Very telling.
anita is that you?
you have continuously violated the board rules. ya want to stick to the players in this case instead of attacking other members on this board?
sore loser I say.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
IMO

[Heyes]

I too noticed that Bayer commercial and thought the same exact thing!


Hi there monaLiSakitty!
Welcome!

[No Nic]

I don't think they will come out any time soon because they are holding out for the big bucks from Dr. Phil. If they didn't bother to help a family find a young woman who had been murdered, they are almost as despicable as Joran and I don't expect them to be of any help.

I think it's so funny that Joran called them "idiots" and "losers" - yet THEY will be the ones getting the fat compensation (from Dr. Phil) that Joran and his greedy parents wanted!

They have lost everything - their reputation, their credibility, their respect - everything that matters in this life in order to live a decent life. They are paying a high price for being the POS enablers they are and for being stubborn and not listening that their son had a real problem. Wonder if they've opened their eyes yet?

I don't think they have, because it was said on GMA today that his POS enabler parents are "worried" that Joran might commit suicide. :rolleyes: They still don't realize he loves himself too much and if they're looking for sympathy, good luck, NO ONE is sympathetic to this - probably welcoming it.

imo

How long do you think Anita will have her job teaching young children? Do you think the people of Aruba want someone who raised this monster teaching their children? I don't.

And Daury/Paulus ? Who would trust that one with their legal affairs?

How long before the VDS's are run off the island? Where will they go? I don't think they would fair any better in Holland.

imo

[HiLife]

At the risk of beign bashed on here.......... I personally think the ONLY reason they are worried is because one of them are also in the "know" about that night! To be frank I don't buy into the whole teens with power on that island.... but I do believe there are certain people with powerful friends......... COP's, Judges, Lawyers........ IMO I thin his referecne to knowing people.... and people with power....... has nothing to do with "Daury"! imo

"Teens with power" - LOLOL!!

I truly hope they are digging into this "daury" fellow. It has to be Paulus. Common sense dictates - No one else would put themselves on the line for murder, going out into the ocean alone, and dumping a dead(?) body that he had nothing to do with - for anyone else unless it is a parent.....a POS enabling parent like Paulus.

imo

[HiLife]

How long do you think Anita will have her job teaching young children? Do you think the people of Aruba want someone who raised this monster teaching their children? I don't.

And Daury/Paulus ? Who would trust that one with their legal affairs?

How long before the VDS's are run off the island? Where will they go? I don't think they would fair any better in Holland.

imo
I forgot to put that in my post - I don't think either one of the POS enablers will hold their jobs for much longer. You're right - WHO would be seen even going to Paulus for legal help? Pffft. Maybe for body disposal advice?

I cannot imagine where these people could go.....New Zealand? Australia (it used to be a penal colony and Joran would feel right at home!)

imo

[Heyes]

Joran was spoken to by police how many times now??? Ho many times did he lie? He was the last seen with her, he was the only one who REALLY knew where that was, so therefore he is the one who stole these early hurs of this investigation. Even if he was angry with the MB group, even if he didn't like how HE was approached, he could have been up front and honest with the police. By him doing that which IMO was to stall time..... he Stole those crucial hours.

I don't think this case is solved, but I do believe thanks to this new tape it is on its way to being solved. I hope they find something in the water search!

Ho many times are we going to hear the sorry excuse... I lied....... I lied about the Hi story, I lied about the beach story, I lied about the sex story, and ho many excuses do people need to make for these lies. He lied cause he was scared, or because he was angry, or because he wanted to be cool and make an impression! Joran is sick IMO! He is twisted and sick! Anyone who can sit there for how many years and lie, and change his story and play the games he is playing all the while there is a missing girl on he was last seen leaving with........ SICK! :(

One thing I wish no make that 2 I wish Deepak and Satish would come out and spill their side and I wish that Patrick would have asked about their direct involvement?????

All IMO


Julia!!! So good to see you!
Finally all the nonsense that was floating around has been debunked. Natalee at least can now be classified as a victim. Beth has been validated and now hopefully aruba may clean up it's image. I don't hold my breath because of the cover up but it's a hope. Beth said last night that she hadn't seen the real joran that she had the displeasure of meeting since that first night in aruba. Until she saw him on DeVries tape. Unguarded. no knowledge of cameras. The real joran came out for the world to see. The truth somehow always comes forth doesn't it? Patience is all that's needed. I must admit I had a hard time with that. The things those with agendas did to this family are sickening. The rumors, the slander. Unbelievable. But, finally things are coming to light and the truth is being exposed.
Hope everything is good with you and yours, miss your posts.
IMO

[fairmaiden]

Joran was spoken to by police how many times now??? Ho many times did he lie? He was the last seen with her, he was the only one who REALLY knew where that was, so therefore he is the one who stole these early hurs of this investigation. Even if he was angry with the MB group, even if he didn't like how HE was approached, he could have been up front and honest with the police. By him doing that which IMO was to stall time..... he Stole those crucial hours.

I don't think this case is solved, but I do believe thanks to this new tape it is on its way to being solved. I hope they find something in the water search!

Ho many times are we going to hear the sorry excuse... I lied....... I lied about the Hi story, I lied about the beach story, I lied about the sex story, and ho many excuses do people need to make for these lies. He lied cause he was scared, or because he was angry, or because he wanted to be cool and make an impression! Joran is sick IMO! He is twisted and sick! Anyone who can sit there for how many years and lie, and change his story and play the games he is playing all the while there is a missing girl on he was last seen leaving with........ SICK! :(

One thing I wish no make that 2 I wish Deepak and Satish would come out and spill their side and I wish that Patrick would have asked about their direct involvement?????

All IMO

Hey julia .... good to see you .... where have you been ??

The Kalpoe Bros. have been silent for this long. They also have a case in the California Courts .... I DOUBT we're going to hear from them now, but I suppose I could be wrong.

JMO

[Heyes]

At the risk of beign bashed on here.......... I personally think the ONLY reason they are worried is because one of them are also in the "know" about that night! To be frank I don't buy into the whole teens with power on that island.... but I do believe there are certain people with powerful friends......... COP's, Judges, Lawyers........ IMO I thin his referecne to knowing people.... and people with power....... has nothing to do with "Daury"! imo

Bingo!
I also think deepak and satsh are in this up to their eyeballs. Possible that they helped set Natalee up with the drugged drink and then a gangrape. I think it's possible at that point "something bad happened" to Natalee like the siezures or throwing up. At that point joran had them leave and he called daddy. That is why they weren't sure of the fate of Natalee. Also joran is keeping them out of it because they are the only ones with direct knowledge that paulus was the one called. IMO

[Luke Davis]

Hi Julianella,

It's very suspicious that Patrick and PV did not continue the sting to confirm details. I suspect that there are additional tapes, after the ones we saw, that do not support the position PV wanted to present on his show.There are many recordings on the SBS6 site and Peter's site. From what I understand Deepak and Satish were just stooges and had nothing to do with any crime.

I'm sure as with Dr. Phil we were allowed to see what they thought was most shocking and would get the big ratings.

IMO

[Heyes]

How long do you think Anita will have her job teaching young children? Do you think the people of Aruba want someone who raised this monster teaching their children? I don't.

And Daury/Paulus ? Who would trust that one with their legal affairs?

How long before the VDS's are run off the island? Where will they go? I don't think they would fair any better in Holland.

imo


That reminds me of the interview where anita started yapping that she is a teacher and she would be the first one to recognize drugs, strange behavior etc. lol lol I may have to look it up to get the exact wording of that one. lol
imo

[julianella]

Julia!!! So good to see you!
Finally all the nonsense that was floating around has been debunked. Natalee at least can now be classified as a victim. Beth has been validated and now hopefully aruba may clean up it's image. I don't hold my breath because of the cover up but it's a hope. Beth said last night that she hadn't seen the real joran that she had the displeasure of meeting since that first night in aruba. Until she saw him on DeVries tape. Unguarded. no knowledge of cameras. The real joran came out for the world to see. The truth somehow always comes forth doesn't it? Patience is all that's needed. I must admit I had a hard time with that. The things those with agendas did to this family are sickening. The rumors, the slander. Unbelievable. But, finally things are coming to light and the truth is being exposed.
Hope everything is good with you and yours, miss your posts.
IMO

Hi Heyes all is well here... hibernating for the winter. LOL

I do believe that was the real Joran also. I had not seen the clip of him throwing the drink in Devries face prior to that 20/20 airing, and I would say that Joran has some real issues imo.

He bragged about that, and the sititng there with his mouth shut during interrogations (which Beth stated he was doing).... and they way he taled about Natalee and that night! WOW! I really felt sick after watching it. Looking back at his other interviews.... and that good boy act....... wow. I have no doubt in my mind that Joran is responsible for Natalees disappearance. IMO

[fairmaiden]

Hi Ortiga.

I was realy in shock watching that. I neve thoguht of more tapes, actually I was just in shock over Joran and they way he acted and talked, and wow!

I REALLY REALLY hope Deepak and Satish speak out!!!!! Especially since Joran is claiming now he walked home.......which supports Deepak and Satish's lawyer saying they did not pick Joran up... I am sooooo very crious about them now.

I am 100% convinced Natalee is dead! I also believe she is in the ocean. I also believe Joran has known she was there for this entire time. I am however now on the fence on Deepak and Satish! imo

julia .... I was shocked watching it too. I'm now convinced he knows what happened to Natalee. I have never thought Natalee was gangraped. That's why I think there's a great chance the Kalpoe Bros. might win the suit they currently have against Dr. Phil.

Having said that .... I still have many questions.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Hey julia .... good to see you .... where have you been ??

The Kalpoe Bros. have been silent for this long. They also have a case in the California Courts .... I DOUBT we're going to hear from them now, but I suppose I could be wrong.

JMO
Greta talked with D&S's lawyer last night and wanted to talk to D&S. The lawyer said they wouldn't say anything until the lawsuit is decided. Probably on You Tube if you missed it.


IMO

[julianella]

Hey julia .... good to see you .... where have you been ??

The Kalpoe Bros. have been silent for this long. They also have a case in the California Courts .... I DOUBT we're going to hear from them now, but I suppose I could be wrong.

JMO

Hi Fair! I have been hibernating LOL!

Your probably right.. but I do wish they would come out now... even if not to the public but to the ALE! imo

[SukiJane]

I too noticed that Bayer commercial and thought the same exact thing!

Thanks for backing me up on that one. I was starting to think that maybe I saw that commercial in a dream. Welcome to the board!

[fairmaiden]

I know I was thinking why didn't they keep it going jut a little longer.

I don't think they are going to get millions. I don't think they deserve money. I do think they are hold back info that could have helped. But I am just not sure they are actually directly involved in the disappearance...... As for the Phil tape..... I don't know. It as wrong......... IF it is a fake...... But at the same time isn't it wrong to lie and hold back info on a missing persons case? For that reason alone they should not get paid. IMO :shrug:

julia .... Just as a side note .... I don't think this case has been SOLVED either. His "confession" is being picked apart by those who always thought he was guilty. While some of them are claiming he told the TRUTH in this confession, they say he DIDN'T tell the truth when it came to who halped him with Natalee's body. They claim he is NOT telling the truth, when he says she died accidentally .... because he MURDERED her. How does one begin to tell WHEN he is telling the truth, and when he's not.

As far as the Kalpoe suit goes .... I look at that as a different issue. The supposed "admission" of gangrape has been USED throughout this long period, as being something that FACTUALLY happened. We have heard Beth many times state .... "Deepak admitted on international television that they all RAPED Natalee" . It is something Beth has used in her ISTF speeches, when telling "Natalee's story".

As you know, there's no doubt in my mind, what was aired on Dr. Phil was altered. Why??

JMO

[julianella]

julia .... I was shocked watching it too. I'm now convinced he knows what happened to Natalee. I have never thought Natalee was gangraped. That's why I think there's a great chance the Kalpoe Bros. might win the suit they currently have against Dr. Phil.

Having said that .... I still have many questions.

JMO

After that show my theory of that night is that Joran with the help of someone in the "know" brought Deepak and Satish into this! I think the calls placed were to establish an alibi, as were the "internet" transmissions.... I think Joran set up the meeting at the casino with Deepak the next day. and I believe he did go to that casino just as he said to be seen on camera being normal. There is something to the statement Deepak made in the car conversation about the "when they find the girl you'll get 15 years" (not exact but something like that)...........

I do not think Deepak and Satish deserve money. But I do however think they were set up but Joran and his "power" guy.

IMO

[fairmaiden]

Um if your going to quote me, let me help you, I said "sprinkled with lies". lol
When asked if joran realized that she could have been alive when he had her dumped into the sea, and Jorans answer was, "YEAH" with a little toss of his head and a look on his face that screamed *so what!*.........
I have to ask..........What part of INTENT TO KILL, do you not understand?
imo

Excuse me, Heyes .... I misquoted you .... you DIDN'T say "sprinkled with TRUTH though" did you??

I notice how PARTS of his "confession" are grasped onto as if they are gospel .... yet other parts are dismissed, because it doesn't FIT what you have felt happened. EG .... Paulus disposing of Natalee's body. All I'm saying Heyes, is .... if this "confession" is being lauded as Joran finally telling the TRUTH, how can you say it's "sprinkled with lies" .... and which parts do you decide are the lies ??

JMO

[julianella]

julia .... Just as a side note .... I don't think this case has been SOLVED either. His "confession" is being picked apart by those who always thought he was guilty. While some of them are claiming he told the TRUTH in this confession, they say he DIDN'T tell the truth when it came to who halped him with Natalee's body. They claim he is NOT telling the truth, when he says she died accidentally .... because he MURDERED her. How does one begin to tell WHEN he is telling the truth, and when he's not.

As far as the Kalpoe suit goes .... I look at that as a different issue. The supposed "admission" of gangrape has been USED throughout this long period, as being something that FACTUALLY happened. We have heard Beth many times state .... "Deepak admitted on international television that they all RAPED Natalee" . It is something Beth has used in her ISTF speeches, when telling "Natalee's story".

As you know, there's no doubt in my mind, what was aired on Dr. Phil was altered. Why??

JMO

I don't know about the accidental death and murder thing. Something to me does not fit. Something is missing.......... here is why..... what on Natalee would make him feel uneasy about the finding of her body? What happened to his shoes.... why would he walk home and while walking home just decide to throw his shoes in the sewer or whatever it is he claimed??? Doesn't make any sense.

I don't believe he told the truth on who helped him. Reason 1.. he all of a sudden defensive "it wasn't my parents or anything" where did that come from? And #2... the whole he knows people deal... people with power.... not sure I buy that. I think he picked a name, someone who he thought would never find out and just threw it out there.

As for the Kalpoes again I don't feel bad for their press. YES If it was altered it was wrong.......... but don't you think it is wrong to with hold information about a missing person? If they knew where Joran as dropped off, they should not have covered it up, nor should they have agreed to a pact, or alibi to help him. to me they are both wrong. I do not see it right that they get compensated. I just don't agree with it.

I think the value of human life is worth more the someone trash talking another. IMO Neither are right, but to me finding Natalee is more important then this case......... imo

[fairmaiden]

Ever since joran opened his big mouth and admitted he killed Natalee, you've been attacking every Beth supporter on this board on a personal basis. Very telling.
anita is that you?
you have continuously violated the board rules. ya want to stick to the players in this case instead of attacking other members on this board?
sore loser I say.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
IMO

But Heyes .... He DIDN'T admit he killed Natalee !! That's what I'm talking about. In YOUR mind he killed Natalee.

JMO

JMO

[julianella]

But Heyes .... He DIDN'T admit he killed Natalee !! That's what I'm talking about. In YOUR mind he killed Natalee.

JMO

JMO

Well technicaly he didn't really know. He was not sure if she was dead when his "helper" came to toss her to the sea.

IF she OD'ed and he had the chance to save her and didn't....... that is murder. IF she was alive when she was tossed in the sea that is murder.

I am not sue in this one yet........ I am sure that Joran is involved though.

imo

[fairmaiden]

Julia!!! So good to see you!
Finally all the nonsense that was floating around has been debunked. Natalee at least can now be classified as a victim. Beth has been validated and now hopefully aruba may clean up it's image. I don't hold my breath because of the cover up but it's a hope. Beth said last night that she hadn't seen the real joran that she had the displeasure of meeting since that first night in aruba. Until she saw him on DeVries tape. Unguarded. no knowledge of cameras. The real joran came out for the world to see. The truth somehow always comes forth doesn't it? Patience is all that's needed. I must admit I had a hard time with that. The things those with agendas did to this family are sickening. The rumors, the slander. Unbelievable. But, finally things are coming to light and the truth is being exposed.
Hope everything is good with you and yours, miss your posts.
IMO

LOL .... "The truth somehow always comes forth" .... the TRUTH that is "sprinkled with lies". I think you may be right, by the way .... I wonder how much of what we heard was the truth ??

I'm just saying, you can't have it both ways .... :shrug:

JMO

[Heyes]

But Heyes .... He DIDN'T admit he killed Natalee !! That's what I'm talking about. In YOUR mind he killed Natalee.

JMO

JMO

If she was alive when he got rid of her, he killed Natalee. If she had already died even accidently, he only thought she was dead, he didn't know for sure. He was asked what if she was alive and he indicated that it still was no big deal. That is intent to kill.
Either way he wanted her dead and gone. No way she could ever challange his lies. No way could she ever testifiy against him in court. There ya have it. It's what he indicated and said. We saw it with our eyes. He didn't care, he just wanted her gone, dead or alive.
IMO

[fairmaiden]

Greta talked with D&S's lawyer last night and wanted to talk to D&S. The lawyer said they wouldn't say anything until the lawsuit is decided. Probably on You Tube if you missed it.


IMO

I imagined that to be the case, Luke .... Thanks .... :seeya:

[Heyes]

LOL .... "The truth somehow always comes forth" .... the TRUTH that is "sprinkled with lies". I think you may be right, by the way .... I wonder how much of what we heard was the truth ??

I'm just saying, you can't have it both ways .... :shrug:

JMO

It isn't both ways. its still the truth. some details change but the gist of it's there. Are you saying he didn't kill Natalee? He didnt know if she was dead and he wanted her dumped in the sea. How can you say that wasn't murder?
Or are you buying into he was lying about all of this just to impress this guy>
If you think he had something to do with this then you can't have it both ways. Either his intent was to kill her in the end or he made the entire story up. What do you belive when you say you feel he's involved?

[fairmaiden]

Thanks for backing me up on that one. I was starting to think that maybe I saw that commercial in a dream. Welcome to the board!

Nope .... you weren't dreaming, Suki .... I've seen it a couple of times since.

[fairmaiden]

Well technicaly he didn't really know. He was not sure if she was dead when his "helper" came to toss her to the sea.

IF she OD'ed and he had the chance to save her and didn't....... that is murder. IF she was alive when she was tossed in the sea that is murder.

I am not sue in this one yet........ I am sure that Joran is involved though.

imo

But .... he didn't ADMIT to killing her !! He didn't say .... "I KILLED her" That would be an "admission".

JMO

[fairmaiden]

If she was alive when he got rid of her, he killed Natalee. If she had already died even accidently, he only thought she was dead, he didn't know for sure. He was asked what if she was alive and he indicated that it still was no big deal. That is intent to kill.
Either way he wanted her dead and gone. No way she could ever challange his lies. No way could she ever testifiy against him in court. There ya have it. It's what he indicated and said. We saw it with our eyes. He didn't care, he just wanted her gone, dead or alive.
IMO

Oh .... I agree with you .... he did NOT come across to me as a "caring" individual. ((Why does that comment remind me of some Army commercial .... lol??))

JMO

[HiLife]

Thanks for backing me up on that one. I was starting to think that maybe I saw that commercial in a dream. Welcome to the board!

:seeya: saw that very commercial last night - right after I had read your post about it! lol! It was creepy having that on the Joran Confession show (and the fact that it came on right after I had read your post about it!)

[julianella]

But .... he didn't ADMIT to killing her !! He didn't say .... "I KILLED her" That would be an "admission".

JMO

Right ok I see what you are saying. Sorry .

[julianella]

:seeya: saw that very commercial last night - right after I had read your post about it! lol! It was creepy having that on the Joran Confession show (and the fact that it came on right after I had read your post about it!)

I m lost which commercial?

[Heyes]

But .... he didn't ADMIT to killing her !! He didn't say .... "I KILLED her" That would be an "admission".

JMO


He admitted to not knowing if she was alive or not when he made the decision to make sure she was dead by tossing her into the ocean, what exactly would you call that?

He never said I killed her, no but it's kinda easy to figure out that he was fine with the fact that even if alive his actions would kill her. hello?
IMO
That my dear is murder.
imo

[HiLife]

<snipped for emphasis>

Did anyone notice the Bayer aspirin commercial with the lady that says she died from cardiac arrest (I think that is what she said), and was taken to the hospital and given shock treatment and brought back to life. Interesting slot for that ad, I thought.
jmo

I m lost which commercial?

Here's Suki's post about the Bayer commercial, Julia.

[fairmaiden]

It isn't both ways. its still the truth. some details change but the gist of it's there. Are you saying he didn't kill Natalee? He didnt know if she was dead and he wanted her dumped in the sea. How can you say that wasn't murder?
Or are you buying into he was lying about all of this just to impress this guy>
If you think he had something to do with this then you can't have it both ways. Either his intent was to kill her in the end or he made the entire story up. What do you belive when you say you feel he's involved?

Some "details" change ??

I'm saying .... IF Natalee was already dead, which was his assertion in his "confession" , then obviously, HE didn't kill her !! Should he have called for help ?? .... absolutely. He didn't .... he SAYS he thought she was dead, then called for someone with a boat to dump her body. Now .... if all that is perfectly true, as he says it .... then he didn't kill her, she died accidentally. Obviously, I can't say whether she was still alive or not. Interestingly enough .... what I see many times now around the boards is .... "she was most likely STILL ALIVE". That is NOT what he said. His intent was to dump her body, IF we are to believe him .... NOT to kill her.

What do I believe ??.... I believe he knows what happened to Natalee. Beyond that .... yes, I think he was trying to impress Patrick with his "bravado". Actually Heyes .... I think this case is FAR from "solved".

ETA .... That what I mean, Heyes .... How can someone say she was most likely still alive, when he didn't even remotely say anything like that!! He said he THOUGHT she was dead.



JMO

[disywisy]

This is just a gut feeling but I feel like he may have forced Natalee to perform a sex act on him, not just touching him, but going down on him. And he didn't seem to care one bit about her, she was just a vehicle for his perversion. So maybe he held her head while showing her no mercy, and if she had a belly full of alcohol, maybe she gagged, aspirated, and couldn't catch her breath. SHE COULD HAVE STILL BEEN SAVED, but he panicked because he didn't want to go down for rape. He's so guilty, he reeks of it, like the weed he smokes, he's a weed himself.

Just my theory.

[cassidy]

Hi Fair! I have been hibernating LOL!

Your probably right.. but I do wish they would come out now... even if not to the public but to the ALE! imo

Maybe the did come clean with the ALE. Perhaps it was their sorry mistake that they drove Joran and Natalee to the beach and dropped them off. It's very possible that was the end of their involvement. Maybe they really don't know anything after that?

:shrug:

[fairmaiden]

Maybe the did come clean with the ALE. Perhaps it was their sorry mistake that they drove Joran and Natalee to the beach and dropped them off. It's very possible that was the end of their involvement. Maybe they really don't know anything after that?

:shrug:

cassidy .... I've thought about that often.

JMO

[julianella]

Maybe the did come clean with the ALE. Perhaps it was their sorry mistake that they drove Joran and Natalee to the beach and dropped them off. It's very possible that was the end of their involvement. Maybe they really don't know anything after that?

:shrug:

I don't think they did / or do know anymore then that. I think they are kinda a set up situation here. I think that they were used as an alibi considering they were the drop offs...... I just get the feeling that all they did was drop them off....

Joran had to make calls to establish and alibi so I think that is why he made calls from his cell to them that night. He knew IMO due to advice from someone in the know that he needed to estabish a timeline.......

But they knew what was said in these pacts meeting.....and they know what PVDS said............

which brings us back to the "innocent advice" no body no case"................... imo

[julianella]

Here's Suki's post about the Bayer commercial, Julia.

Ohhhhhh I remember that commercial........ that is weird.

[HiLife]

This is just a gut feeling but I feel like he may have forced Natalee to perform a sex act on him, not just touching him, but going down on him. And he didn't seem to care one bit about her, she was just a vehicle for his perversion. So maybe he held her head while showing her no mercy, and if she had a belly full of alcohol, maybe she gagged, aspirated, and couldn't catch her breath. SHE COULD HAVE STILL BEEN SAVED, but he panicked because he didn't want to go down for rape. He's so guilty, he reeks of it, like the weed he smokes, he's a weed himself.

Just my theory.

Very, very plausible, disywisy and welcome to the board :seeya:

If you noticed, Joran only begins his story (confession) from Natalee "shaking" or having some type of seizure, onwards. Joran did not say once what happened before they got to that point......when Deepak and Satish dropped them off, or when he and Natalee walked towards the beach, or what lead up to the "shaking."

Joran is an evil, cunning, liar who has not yet told the whole truth of what happened that horrible night on the beach!

imo

[SukiJane]

I don't think they did / or do know anymore then that. I think they are kinda a set up situation here. I think that they were used as an alibi considering they were the drop offs...... I just get the feeling that all they did was drop them off....

Joran had to make calls to establish and alibi so I think that is why he made calls from his cell to them that night. He knew IMO due to advice from someone in the know that he needed to estabish a timeline.......

But they knew what was said in these pacts meeting.....and they know what PVDS said............

which brings us back to the "innocent advice" no body no case"................... imo

Hey Julia, you've been missed here..

I think Satish and Deepak definitely knew what was going on in the car, and I believe it wasn't consensual. It is my opinion Natalee was sexually assaulted in the car by Joran , and it's my opinion they did nothing but enjoy the show.

Satish PV:
On your question of when Deepak, Joran and I were with Natalee on, May 30, 2005, in the nighttime hours, wasn’t it too dark in the car for Joran to see the color of the missing girl’s panties, I can only answer this:
There was enough light in the car of Deepak. Joran must have taken off the clothing of the girl so that he could see the color of the panties she wore. 6/30/05

Joran may have taken off her clothes, no mention of Natalee taking off her own clothes.

Satish PV 6/30/05
You ask me what I meant when I said to the police force Wednesday June 1, 2005: "then I saw this and I said to Deepak, Joran is crazy”, I can explain it following:
Joran and the missing girl that he just met that day was satisfying himself already with a French kiss with the girl. I found that normal and my brother did not indeed and told me that Joran was crazy.

Very strange statement...who knows what to make of it, but again, Joran is satisfying himself, no mention of Natalee and Joran being crazy, or the two of them satisfying themselves with a french kiss. Satish found this normal, Deepak not so much, it seems.

jmo

[SukiJane]

Satish PV 6/11/05:
On May 30th 2005 I had awoken between 11.00 hours and 12.00 hours. When I woke up I asked my brother if he knew how Joran had made it to his house. My brother told me that he had been called during the night hours by Joran. My brother told me that when he was talking to Joran, he could hear that Joran was breathing heavily. My brother told me that had asked Joran what he was doing at the time. Joran had told my brother that he was at that time walking home towards his house. My brother told me that he had asked Joran about the girl and that Joran had told him that he had left the girl at the beach. According to my brother Joran had told him that he had taken off his shoes and that he and the girl had gone into the water. Joran had then told my brother that after that he and the girl had gotten out of the water and that the girl had fallen asleep on the beach. Joran told my brother that he had then tried to wake up the girl but that she had not awakened. Joran told my brother that he had looked to find his shoes but that he couldn't find them.

I think moving a dead body around would cause someone to be out of breath. Deepak says basically the same thing in another statement, he got a call from Joran between 2:45 and 3:15, but doesn't mention Joran being "out of breath".

[No Nic]

But Heyes .... He DIDN'T admit he killed Natalee !! That's what I'm talking about. In YOUR mind he killed Natalee.

JMO

JMO

He admitted that he did not know if she was dead when he threw her (or had her thrown) into the ocean... To me that is murder unless he can PROVE she was dead, he is the cause of her death.

imo

[Luke Davis]

I imagined that to be the case, Luke .... Thanks .... :seeya:
Just a programming note:

Nancy Grace will be covering the case and have Dave on tonight.

The promo says something about exciting news.
:shrug:

[Luke Davis]

Very, very plausible, disywisy and welcome to the board :seeya:

If you noticed, Joran only begins his story (confession) from Natalee "shaking" or having some type of seizure, onwards. Joran did not say once what happened before they got to that point......when Deepak and Satish dropped them off, or when he and Natalee walked towards the beach, or what lead up to the "shaking."

Joran is an evil, cunning, liar who has not yet told the whole truth of what happened that horrible night on the beach!

imo

I've watched so many recordings I may be getting confused but I thought Joran did give a description of what he did before Natalee was shaking. He was talking about fingering and Nayalee's hands in his pants and how she wanted it so he gave it to her and so on. Of course, this is all a translation and may have been cleaned up for 20/20. I'm not sure who translated the videos on You Tube but some are obvious fakes.

Remember we may have seen an hour and there are many hours left.


IMO

[No Nic]

I've watched so many recordings I may be getting confused but I thought Joran did give a description of what he did before Natalee was shaking. He was talking about fingering and Nayalee's hands in his pants and how she wanted it so he gave it to her and so on. Of course, this is all a translation and may have been cleaned up for 20/20. I'm not sure who translated the videos on You Tube but some are obvious fakes.

Remember we may have seen an hour and there are many hours left.


IMO

yeah, right, all young girls that are minutes away from going into seizures and dying are interested in having sex with sociopaths. :flamemad:

[Luke Davis]

yeah, right, all young girls that are minutes away from going into seizures and dying are interested in having sex with sociopaths. :flamemad:
I was thinking the opposite, young girls having sex with Joran could bring on a seizure. Especially rough sex.


IMO

[Luke Davis]

Breaking news...

Joran on suicide watch

Patrick refused entry to USA

Translation are on blogs from FOK magazine.

interesting videos (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4255249&page=1)

[No Nic]

I was thinking the opposite, young girls having sex with Joran could bring on a seizure. Especially rough sex.


IMO

Yeah, rough sex, like she say NO and he smacks her up along side the head with a rock.

[No Nic]

http://www.ad.nl/holloway/article2031959.ece(on line translation)

Arubans are ready with Joran
By MAAIKE RUEPERT

PALM BEACH-ARUBA - Arubans have for the first time since the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, almost three years ago, en masse against suspect Joran van der Sloot reversed.

Aruba feels betrayed by Joran. The tourism sector has heavy.
There are even vote on the entire family Van der Sloot process. Many islanders feel betrayed by the remarks of the suspect. Until recently the population felt itself attacked by the American press and the family Holloway. But for the parents of Natalee is now greater understanding than ever.
After seeing the images with the hidden camera which Van der Sloot opbiecht the body of Holloway to have dumped it, even to vote on the entire family Van der Sloot to declare persona non grata.


Dozens of radio listeners and have krantenlezers by phone and e-mail to know how they feel betrayed by the words of Van der Sloot. Especially those in 2005 have meegezocht to Holloway. The government gave five thousand civil servants when two days Friday. The 20-year-old Van der Sloot had hitherto always the benefit of the doubt. The population has always felt more attacked by the American media and the family Holloway. For the Holloway family is now more understanding than ever.

,, This guy is a psychopath. He has everybody fooled,''says an angry watersportonderneemster, not with her name in the newspaper will to 'not bothered'. ,, I think it is very supportive of the girl and her mother, but it is worse for us. We are the victims and we have done nothing. My colleague, who is from Pennsylvania, his family gets to hear: go now to that moordenaarseiland again? This week advised someone on CNN that more tourists to Bermuda can go.''


Managementconsultant Matilda Robles says that she Van der Sloot knew of face. , "He seemed like a nice boy, and I wanted no preconceptions about him, but now I do not doubt that he is behind Natalee's disappearance. He gives it yourself.''

She is shocked about his remark that he could not believe that this is correct it must overcome. Robles: "If a judge him is not condemned, we condemn him.''


It is the Arubans pain that Van der Sloot in various interviews has always said the situation so bad to reconcile the Aruban people. Since the disappearance is Aruba's image as the safest island of the Caribbean to grabbel thrown. The affair has the island in recent years, cost tens of millions of dollars damage, the government. Tourism from America fell in 2006 to 9 percent.

In Alabama, Holloway's, nobody came. Aruba for tourism for more than 70 percent dependent on the United States.


Also Jorans father Paul van der Sloot, the ontgelden, now junior has admitted that his father a phone in prison to smuggle. Furthermore, the bad blood is that the family seems to be eager to money. Previously served Van der Sloot senior a claim, because he wrongly suspected would have been. That claim is rejected.
,, We do not understand that the prosecutor last week has had a conversation with the family Van der Sloot to warn them that the images of their adult son may have far-reaching consequences. Apparently enjoying the family Van der Sloot still a preferred position,''says the hoofdredactioneel comments from el Diario newspaper yesterday.

[HiLife]

I've watched so many recordings I may be getting confused but I thought Joran did give a description of what he did before Natalee was shaking. He was talking about fingering and Nayalee's hands in his pants and how she wanted it so he gave it to her and so on. Of course, this is all a translation and may have been cleaned up for 20/20. I'm not sure who translated the videos on You Tube but some are obvious fakes.

Remember we may have seen an hour and there are many hours left.

IMO

Ok, yes, you're right, Luke. Joran did say that on that Dutch translation. But what you describe above is still a very long ways away from any details. How was she when she walked away from the car, what did they talk about? Joran has left a lot out. The 20 plus hours were said to have contained more of the same confession. Hopefully there was more!

imo

[HiLife]

http://www.ad.nl/holloway/article2031959.ece(on line translation)

Arubans are ready with Joran
By MAAIKE RUEPERT

PALM BEACH-ARUBA - Arubans have for the first time since the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, almost three years ago, en masse against suspect Joran van der Sloot reversed.

Aruba feels betrayed by Joran. The tourism sector has heavy.
There are even vote on the entire family Van der Sloot process. Many islanders feel betrayed by the remarks of the suspect. Until recently the population felt itself attacked by the American press and the family Holloway. But for the parents of Natalee is now greater understanding than ever.
After seeing the images with the hidden camera which Van der Sloot opbiecht the body of Holloway to have dumped it, even to vote on the entire family Van der Sloot to declare persona non grata.

Dozens of radio listeners and have krantenlezers by phone and e-mail to know how they feel betrayed by the words of Van der Sloot. Especially those in 2005 have meegezocht to Holloway. The government gave five thousand civil servants when two days Friday. The 20-year-old Van der Sloot had hitherto always the benefit of the doubt. The population has always felt more attacked by the American media and the family Holloway. For the Holloway family is now more understanding than ever.

This guy is a psychopath. He has everybody fooled,''says an angry watersportonderneemster, not with her name in the newspaper will to 'not bothered'.

<snipped>


The tide has turned! Thank you, Joran, for helping vindicate the Holloway family in their pursuit of justice and for showing the world the Holloways were right in focusing correctly on YOU.

I've been saying all along, I want the Aruba and the Netherlands to hane the Van der Sloots a BILL for all the expense that has gong into finding Natalee. The government should be compensated the loss of hours they paid for their employees to search. Who do the Van der Sloots think they are??

imo

[No Nic]

The tide has turned! Thank you, Joran, for helping vindicate the Holloway family in their pursuit of justice and for showing the world the Holloways were right in focusing correctly on YOU.

I've been saying all along, I want the Aruba and the Netherlands to hane the Van der Sloots a BILL for all the expense that has gong into finding Natalee. The government should be compensated the loss of hours they paid for their employees to search. Who do the Van der Sloots think they are??

imo

Anita is Joran's pet (pat, pat, rub, rub "good girl")

Paulus is Daury

imo

[HiLife]

Anita is Joran's pet (pat, pat, rub, rub "good girl")

Paulus is Daury

imo

LOLOL! I can't stand to watch that robo-rubbing video any longer!

[Luke Davis]

Yeah, rough sex, like she say NO and he smacks her up along side the head with a rock.Or the Donkey kick which is popular now or choking.

[Luke Davis]

Ok, yes, you're right, Luke. Joran did say that on that Dutch translation. But what you describe above is still a very long ways away from any details. How was she when she walked away from the car, what did they talk about? Joran has left a lot out. The 20 plus hours were said to have contained more of the same confession. Hopefully there was more!

imo

Joran also said Deepak and Satish were stooges and didn't know what happened. :shrug:

[No Nic]

Or the Donkey kick which is popular now or choking.

:eek: Never hear of a donkey kick (and I prolly don't want to know, do I?)

[Heyes]

LOLOL! I can't stand to watch that robo-rubbing video any longer!


That robo-rubbing isn't the only obnoxious thing on those videos, watching anita with her arm wrapped around her "sporter", proudly accepting congratulations from the unsuspecting public. She is just proud as punch her baby boy got away with it. That woman KNEW! She is disgusting.
I hope the arubans, parden my "cowboy" reference, ride their a** right out of town. I hope there is nowhere the "classy" ,:rolleyes: anita and paulus can go without always hearing whispers behind their back. They should both be locked up but I'll take what I can get. And seeing these greedy, enabling suckers never comfortable again helps. How dare anita sit there and chastise Natalee for not using the buddy system. HOW DARE SHE!
IMO

[Luke Davis]

:eek: Never hear of a donkey kick (and I prolly don't want to know, do I?)It's a punch to the back of the neck at the right moment, which brings on intense feelings (or kills you).

IMO

[terrysdoor]

Hello everybody.......... just read on Greta wire judges in curaco have the case and expect a news conference in about an hour IIRC

[Luke Davis]

The Holloway Conspiracy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NtzCPPN3bU):patriot:

[Heyes]

The Holloway Conspiracy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NtzCPPN3bU):patriot:

Such garbage! Where is that liar julia renfro now? Hey what about the wacko pyschics? dompig? These slanderous subhumans. I bet they are in hiding now.
This island needs to be held accountable for the cover-up and the nightmare they have put Natalee's family and friends through. Now that there is no question who is responsible for Natalee's death, it's time to hold aruba's spokesholes feet to the fire.
Noone should set foot on that island until the cover-up and corruption is exposed and the julia's, dompigs, jacobs vanderstrattens are arrested and locked up.
IMO

[No Nic]

Such garbage! Where is that liar julia renfro now? Hey what about the wacko pyschics? dompig? These slanderous subhumans. I bet they are in hiding now.
This island needs to be held accountable for the cover-up and the nightmare they have put Natalee's family and friends through. Now that there is no question who is responsible for Natalee's death, it's time to hold aruba's spokesholes feet to the fire.
Noone should set foot on that island until the cover-up and corruption is exposed and the julia's, dompigs, jacobs vanderstrattens are arrested and locked up.
IMO

Aruba has finally admitted that this case has hurt their tourism, no more lying about how "full" their hotels are. They know that this latest development (that has outed the VDS family) will further hurt their tourism. That is why we are hearing the hatred towards the VDSs and the understanding towards Natalee's family from Aruba. Too little, too late, Aruba. The only thing that might help repair your "once happy island" is to hold that POS family accountable for what they did to Natalee Ann Holloway in 2005.

[Heyes]

Aruba has finally admitted that this case has hurt their tourism, no more lying about how "full" their hotels are. They know that this latest development (that has outed the VDS family) will further hurt their tourism. That is why we are hearing the hatred towards the VDSs and the understanding towards Natalee's family from Aruba. Too little, too late, Aruba. The only thing that might help repair your "once happy island" is to hold that POS family accountable for what they did to Natalee Ann Holloway in 2005.

Poor poor vandersloots not welcome in aruba anymore. Bet they aren't too popular anywhere now. So much for their dream of getting rich off this. News for the vandersloots they aren't welcome here either. Serves them right.
anita actually made it a point today to get a hold of AMIGO to let them know that lorenzo is not jorans half brother. Noone in that family can live without the media. Isn't it amazing. I feel another interview coming on with paulus and anita trying one more time to change the publics feelings about their little sporter. But they can't do it in this country.
Go to greta wire you'll see where there was a public release from the prosecutors office basically telling the media to distance themselves so as not to obstruct this case. LMAO!
Here ya go......
http://gretawire.foxnews.com/
The Public Prosecutor’s Office doesn’t fail to notice that the investigation into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway draws a lot of interest from media and general public. However, this interest seems to be turning into a witch-hunt in which several persons are being harassed.

The Public Prosecutor’s Office regards this as not acceptable. In the first place, without any confirmation persons are being labeled as a suspect, and harassed as such. In the second place, journalistic investigations and the subsequent reporting thereof, at a time the investigative team is still busy trying to get an answer to many questions, can seriously harm the criminal investigation. Not only does it cause a lot of unrest, or may generate misinformation, it may also harm the outcome of the investigation itself, e.g. when witnesses questioned by the judge at trial can’t be sure if they witnessed something themselves or they know a fact from the media.

Without questioning the value of freedom of the press, it would be desirable if the press would act a little distantly for aforementioned reasons.
IMO

[HiLife]

Poor poor vandersloots not welcome in aruba anymore. Bet they aren't too popular anywhere now. So much for their dream of getting rich off this. News for the vandersloots they aren't welcome here either. Serves them right.

anita actually made it a point today to get a hold of AMIGO to let them know that lorenzo is not jorans half brother. Noone in that family can live without the media. Isn't it amazing.

IMO

Whoa. Anita sounds more like the man of the family! Mrs.Tough Guy. In charge of punishing Joran, and now, instead of humbly hiding in her house and letting her son's evil confession ride out, she has the ***** to call a newspaper to set people straight?

We are getting many disgusting glimpses as to how Joran has become the monster he is - it ain't pretty.

imo

[No Nic]

Whoa. Anita sounds more like the man of the family! Mrs.Tough Guy. In charge of punishing Joran, and now, instead of humbly hiding in her house and letting her son's evil confession ride out, she has the ***** to call a newspaper to set people straight?

We are getting many disgusting glimpses as to how Joran has become the monster he is - it ain't pretty.

imo


No, "it ain't pretty, at all. But it is good that Aruba now sees this disgusting family as it truly is, FINALLY. Paulus is being booted off all committees that he is on and I don't see anyone trusting him with their legal issues. When will Anita be booted from "teaching" innocent children? With her track record, best keep her away from the youngsters. I would jerk my kid out of that school so fast, they wouldn't even see a streak.

Interesting that Anita felt it important to deny that Joran had a half brother, did she have nothing to say about her "sporter" whose sports are disposing of young women, gambling, daily drug use and visions of a life's career in criminal ventures?

[HiLife]

No, "it ain't pretty, at all. But it is good that Aruba now sees this disgusting family as it truly is, FINALLY. Paulus is being booted off all committees that he is on and I don't see anyone trusting him with their legal issues. When will Anita be booted from "teaching" innocent children? With her track record, best keep her away from the youngsters. I would jerk my kid out of that school so fast, they wouldn't even see a streak.

Interesting that Anita felt it important to deny that Joran had a half brother, did she have nothing to say about her "sporter" whose sports are disposing of young women, gambling, daily drug use and visions of a life's career in criminal ventures?

I still cannot believe her absolute gall to straighten everyone out. I would think she'd have more important things to worry about, like getting kicked off the island. Or how about what her husband is going to do for a job now? (Did I mention this was all thanks to Joran?)

I can tell you, after hearing Anita called the newspaper, they still are CLUELESS! WHAT is it going to TAKE???

imo

[Luke Davis]

Over a month ago, the lawyers for Deepak and Satish reportedly did not show for a hearing. I never saw a news report why this happened and probably never will.

Why (http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/kalpoemcgraw/3.pdf)

[ortiga]

Over a month ago, the lawyers for Deepak and Satish reportedly did not show for a hearing. I never saw a news report why this happened and probably never will.

Why (http://homepage.mac.com/mcgraw.kalpoe.docs/.Public/kalpoemcgraw/3.pdf)


Thanks Luke. I thought it was so strange that they would not "show up".

[ortiga]

Mrs. Twitty has said at least twice now (LKL and NG) that she wants to kill Joran. Also she has upped the threat now, on NG she said she wants to peel the skin off of his face.



Is she a grieving mother now in "mourning"?

or

Is she inciting her internet message boards followers to react?

[No Nic]

Mrs. Twitty has said at least twice now (LKL and NG) that she wants to kill Joran. Also she has upped the threat now, on NG she said she wants to peel the skin off of his face.



Is she a greiving mother now in "mourning"?

or

Is she inciting her internet message boards followers to react?

I suppose you, in her situation, would give him a hug and a kiss, right? :chicken:

If I were her, I would want to do much worse than tear the skin off his face or simply kill him. But, then again, I dearly love my children and would not only be grieving, I would be mad as HELL at the one who murdered my child !!

eta: inciting her internet mb followers, lololololol. (don't worry, I am sure Joran's internet mb followers will protect him.)

[HiLife]

Killing Joran and/or peeling off his face is still too good for that murderer!

Go, Beth! :patriot:

[ortiga]

Killing Joran and/or peeling off his face is still too good for that murderer!

Go, Beth! :patriot:


That's now the way I envision a lady in mourning, but then she's no lady, is she. Or is it that she's not even in mourning.

[HiLife]

When your child has been murdered by a sociopathic, murderous, lying monster, everything is fair game. Joran will begin now to get his just desserts - he (and soon his family) is persona non grata on the Island of Aruba. The Dutch are sending him death threats. He's made his life and his parent's lifves and his brother's lives a living h3ll!

The lying Van der Sloots, Paulus/Daury and Anita will suffer the consequences of their disgusting behavior forever. Hopefully they will also be forced to flee the Island they have caused so much pain and expense for!

Beth has been vindicated. The truth has been revealed and now we wait for justice to be served!

Go, Beth! :patriot:

[ortiga]

When your child has been murdered by a sociopathic, murderous, lying monster, everything is fair game. Joran will begin now to get his just desserts - he (and soon his famaily) is persona non grata on the Island of Aruba. The Dutch are sending him death threats.

The lying Van der Sloots, Paulus/Daury and Anita will suffer the consequences of their disgusting behavior forever. Hopefully they will also be forced to flee the Island they have caused so much pain and expense for!

Beth has been vindicated. The truth has been revealed and now we wait for justice to be served!

Go, Beth! :patriot:

That's just a passle of silly internet ravings. Get a grip.

[HiLife]

That's just a passle of silly internet ravings. Get a grip.

Must be lonely being a Joran supporter about now! LOL! To know that everyone who's ben maligned, insulted and mocked was RIGHT and you were WRONG!

Go, Beth!:patriot:

[ortiga]

Must be lonely being a Joran supporter about now! LOL! To know that everyone who's ben maligned, insulted and mocked was RIGHT and you were WRONG!

Go, Beth!:patriot:

So, the way I understand it is that Beth is now in mourning. She said.

She thinks Joran "watched her suffer" and "killed" Natalee.

So now she wants to "kill" him.

So, from her point of view it is, then, OK to kill someone?

[HiLife]

So, the way I understand it is that Beth is now in mourning. She said.

She thinks Joran "watched her suffer" and "killed" Natalee.

So now she wants to "kill" him.

So, from her point of view it is, then, OK to kill someone?

Beth has every right to think anything she likes. She will never stoop as low as the murderer Joran, though. That is for the courts, or maybe some of those threats by the Dutch will come through?

Trying to put Beth on Joran the murderer's level is an infantile and useless effort. Keep defending the murderer. Your prerogative. Can't wait to see how the rest unfolds. Even if Joran is not held accountable in a court of law, he will forever be looking over his shoulder in paranoia. The public appears very angry at him. He deserves every minute of his life to be a living h3ll. Maybe he can hire his parents (they'll be jobless soon) to be his bodyguards - a job they've never given up to this day!

imo

[ortiga]

Beth has every right to think anything she likes. She will never stoop as low as the murderer Joran, though. That is for the courts, or maybe some of those threats by the Dutch will come through?

Trying to put Beth on Joran the murderer's level is an infantile and useless effort. Keep defending the murderer. Your prerogative. Can't wait to see how the rest unfolds. Even if Joran is not held accountable in a court of law, he will forever be looking over his shoulder in paranoia. The public appears very angry at him. He deserves every minute of his life to be a living h3ll. Maybe he can hire his parents (they'll be jobless soon) to be his bodyguards - a job they've never given up to this day!

imo


That's just a bunch of monkey musings. Get a grip.

[HiLife]

That's just a bunch of monkey musings. Get a grip.

What are these monkey musings you love to post? I don't know about monkeys, but I bet you must be really sore that even a bunch of monkeys knew better than you!

Go, Beth! :patriot:

[Heyes]

Mrs. Twitty has said at least twice now (LKL and NG) that she wants to kill Joran. Also she has upped the threat now, on NG she said she wants to peel the skin off of his face.



Is she a grieving mother now in "mourning"?

or

Is she inciting her internet message boards followers to react?


Considering he murdered her daughter. I just can't blame her.
Seems like just about anyone who saw joran's confession would like to see him either dead or locked up for the rest of his useless life.
Peeling the skin off his face is a start.

IMO

[Heyes]

That's now the way I envision a lady in mourning, but then she's no lady, is she. Or is it that she's not even in mourning.

Can you imagine the horror the parents of the children anita was teaching must feel? How uttely frightening to think this lying, evil, hag was with their innocent children day in and day out! Oh my! {{{{SHIVER}}}}
IMO

[Luke Davis]

Other than for judicial investigation, Joran van der Sloot is no longer welcome on the island.

“Twitty had already mentioned on TV last year that Aruban detectives have asked him about Natalee’s epileptic or allergic reactions. It is not inconceivable that during the ‘spy confessions’, Joran has used Twitty’s statements to trace a wrong track.”

Amigoe (http://www.amigoe.com/english/)

[Grandad]

Other than for judicial investigation, Joran van der Sloot is no longer welcome on the island.

“Twitty had already mentioned on TV last year that Aruban detectives have asked him about Natalee’s epileptic or allergic reactions. It is not inconceivable that during the ‘spy confessions’, Joran has used Twitty’s statements to trace a wrong track.”

Amigoe (http://www.amigoe.com/english/)

According to the same article Patrick van der Eem, undercover informant for Peter DeVries, isn't welcome in the U.S.

He flew into JFK with DeVries, but he was arrested and put on the next plane back to the Netherlands.

[No Nic]

According to the same article Patrick van der Eem, undercover informant for Peter DeVries, isn't welcome in the U.S.

He flew into JFK with DeVries, but he was arrested and put on the next plane back to the Netherlands.


Of course, the difference is.........Patrick was not raised in the US. The place that Joran was raised and has called "home" most of his life NO LONGER wants him anywhere near. Joran may never "pay" in a legal sense, but he is just starting to get what he has coming to him and it is starting in his homeland. Gotta love it !!

[Grandad]

Of course, the difference is.........Patrick was not raised in the US. The place that Joran was raised and has called "home" most of his life NO LONGER wants him anywhere near. Joran may never "pay" in a legal sense, but he is just starting to get what he has coming to him and it is starting in his homeland. Gotta love it !!

Sorry you don't understand what the difference is. Especially when it's so simple and so obvious.

Patrick is a convicted criminal. Joran was a suspect. Big, big difference.

[No Nic]

Sorry you don't understand what the difference is. Especially when it's so simple and so obvious.

Patrick is a convicted criminal. Joran was a suspect. Big, big difference.

Yes, so simple and so obvious.

Patrick's criminal record is from over a decade ago. He has paid for his crime(s) and is now a respected member of society.

Joran's crime(s) are current. He has not and most likely never will pay (in a court of law, anyway) for his crime(s) and never will be a respected member of society, he will be shunned for the rest of his life.

And don't bother with "there is no proof of a crime", we all hear the confession from the sociopath's mouth.

[HiLife]

Yes, so simple and so obvious.

Patrick's criminal record is from over a decade ago. He has paid for his crime(s) and is now a respected member of society.

Joran's crime(s) are current. He has not and most likely never will pay (in a court of law, anyway) for his crime(s) and never will be a respected member of society, he will be shunned for the rest of his life.

And don't bother with "there is no proof of a crime", we all hear the confession from the sociopath's mouth.

I wonder what kind of twisted mentality it takes to keep trying to bring everyone down to the level of Joran the murderer? The victim's mother, the victim's friends, the victim's family and now the man who was able to get the murderer to tell the truth!

If Joran escapes the long arm of the law, he will pay, in that his life will be a living h3ll: he will not be able to trust anyone, who will hire hiim, where will he live, his parents have been humiliated, his brothers will never overcome Joran's legacy.

I think Joran should "run away."

imo

[Grandad]

Yes, so simple and so obvious.

Patrick's criminal record is from over a decade ago. He has paid for his crime(s) and is now a respected member of society.

<snip>


A respected member of society?

The U.S. I live in welcomes all respected members of society as visitors.

Some of you just don't get it.

[Heyes]

A respected member of society?

The U.S. I live in welcomes all respected members of society as visitors.

Some of you just don't get it.

Oh we get it!
Jorans toast,
Patricks not.
And the world knows it!'
Even aruba doesn't want him.


imo

[No Nic]

Oh we get it!
Jorans toast,
Patricks not.
And the world knows it!'
Even aruba doesn't want him.


imo

Re: Even Aruba doesn't want him.

Before the outcry for a link, I will be proactive and put it here for you Heyes. Even his own people have turned against him, they personally know what a POS he is, but some who have never met him, still defend his lying for over three yrs. and the dumping of a possibly alive young woman.

http://www.nu.nl/news/1427850/20/%27Joran_persona_non_grata_op_Aruba%27.html

ORANJESTAD - The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, suspect Joran van der Sloot named to persona non grata on the island. "Except for judicial investigation, he is no longer welcome here," said the Minister.
Novum2

His remark shows Croes also in the light of the package of measures that the Dutch government has agreed to Antillean and Aruban probleemjongeren to tackle.

Minister of Justice Ernst Hirsch Ballin prepares for a law that enables them to declare undesirable.

Example

"Let Joran is the first example of a Dutchman who is not wanted on Aruba," says Minister Croes, who knew that it is legally impossible for him actually access to the country to deny. "But I would not have him here."

The Aruban prosecutor Dop Kruimel find the words of Minister Croes "premature." Regardless of whether it is desirable, that boy is not yet convicted.

To the extent we have is the intelligence of legally difficult for him to refuse access. He is legally allowed on Aruba.

Father

The Aruban Ministry of Justice has also begun to examine whether the father of Joran, lawyer Paul van der Sloot, a mobile phone Aruban jail has been made.

His son had noted that in his ontboezeming for the hidden camera of the programme of Peter R. De Vries.

Function

Minister Croes sitting together with Paul van der Sloot in a strafrechtcommissie on the prison system of Aruba. Ideally, he wants the attorney from his office and the committee put.

The Aruban Bar Association sees no reason for disciplinary measures. "So far we take pleasure in the written statement by Paul in the TV programme Pauw & Witteman, which he denies," says a spokesman.

[Heyes]

Thanks NoNic!
You're right, of course. However the cries for links are gettng less and less.
This time joran stepped in it.
I think he should be locked up for 15 years on the body dumping charge alone. Throw in tampering with evidence and obstructions of justice. About 30 years sounds good to me! Or more.
I'm sure there are other charges that could apply. Same with the parents. And I still think the kalpoes are involved. But this is aruba so I doubt they will do anything more than delay, delay, delay until it goes away.
imo

[No Nic]

Thanks NoNic!
You're right, of course. However the cries for links are gettng less and less.
This time joran stepped in it.
I think he should be locked up for 15 years on the body dumping charge alone. Throw in tampering with evidence and obstructions of justice. About 30 years sounds good to me! Or more.
I'm sure there are other charges that could apply. Same with the parents. And I still think the kalpoes are involved. But this is aruba so I doubt they will do anything more than delay, delay, delay until it goes away.
imo


You're right about the cries for links. Not asked for anymore, because everyone knows they are EVERYWHERE.

Joran will never be able to retract this confession. At the very least Aruba, The Netherlands, America totally believe he disposed of Natalee Holloway, possibly alive. He is despised and the lowest form of useless human garbage.

imo

[Grandad]

Re: Even Aruba doesn't want him.

Before the outcry for a link, I will be proactive and put it here for you Heyes. Even his own people have turned against him, they personally know what a POS he is, but some who have never met him, still defend his lying for over three yrs. and the dumping of a possibly alive young woman.

http://www.nu.nl/news/1427850/20/%27Joran_persona_non_grata_op_Aruba%27.html

ORANJESTAD - The Aruban Minister of Justice, Rudy Croes, suspect Joran van der Sloot named to persona non grata on the island. "Except for judicial investigation, he is no longer welcome here," said the Minister.
Novum2

His remark shows Croes also in the light of the package of measures that the Dutch government has agreed to Antillean and Aruban probleemjongeren to tackle.

Minister of Justice Ernst Hirsch Ballin prepares for a law that enables them to declare undesirable.

Example

"Let Joran is the first example of a Dutchman who is not wanted on Aruba," says Minister Croes, who knew that it is legally impossible for him actually access to the country to deny. "But I would not have him here."

The Aruban prosecutor Dop Kruimel find the words of Minister Croes "premature." Regardless of whether it is desirable, that boy is not yet convicted.

To the extent we have is the intelligence of legally difficult for him to refuse access. He is legally allowed on Aruba.

Father

The Aruban Ministry of Justice has also begun to examine whether the father of Joran, lawyer Paul van der Sloot, a mobile phone Aruban jail has been made.

His son had noted that in his ontboezeming for the hidden camera of the programme of Peter R. De Vries.

Function

Minister Croes sitting together with Paul van der Sloot in a strafrechtcommissie on the prison system of Aruba. Ideally, he wants the attorney from his office and the committee put.

The Aruban Bar Association sees no reason for disciplinary measures. "So far we take pleasure in the written statement by Paul in the TV programme Pauw & Witteman, which he denies," says a spokesman.


You either didn't read your own link, or if you did, you don't understand it.

While Mr. Croes may personally prefer that Joran not return to Aruba, it isn't in his power to forbid Joran to do so, just as you don't have the authority to deny Joran, or anyone else, entrance to the U.S.

When you don't understand something, don't hesitate to ask for help. There are several posters here who will be happy to explain things in terms you can understand.

[monaLiSakitty]

A respected member of society?

The U.S. I live in welcomes all respected members of society as visitors.

Some of you just don't get it.



I understand that Patrick is a convicted criminal.. and that quite possibly he did this whole thing for the wrong reasons... but I just do not see how it matters. I would think, naturally, only a criminal would be able to fool a criminal (Joran) into trusting them the way Patrick did and get him to spell his guts, and I think he knew that. Either way, how can you ignore what came out of Joran's mouth
IMO

[fairmaiden]

I understand that Patrick is a convicted criminal.. and that quite possibly he did this whole thing for the wrong reasons... but I just do not see how it matters. I would think, naturally, only a criminal would be able to fool a criminal (Joran) into trusting them the way Patrick did and get him to spell his guts, and I think he knew that. Either way, how can you ignore what came out of Joran's mouth
IMO

monaLiSakitty .... You described the problem I'm having. I also think it doesn't really matter what kind of person Patrick might be .... Joran said what he said !! What I DO think might be possible is, Joran might have been trying to impress this guy .... he might have embellished his "confession" .... he may have lied ((which most seem to believe .... at least with CERTAIN parts)).

JMO

[ortiga]

I suppose you, in her situation, would give him a hug and a kiss, right? :chicken:

If I were her, I would want to do much worse than tear the skin off his face or simply kill him. But, then again, I dearly love my children and would not only be grieving, I would be mad as HELL at the one who murdered my child !!

eta: inciting her internet mb followers, lololololol. (don't worry, I am sure Joran's internet mb followers will protect him.)


I thought she said she was a Christian. I believe she played that card for awhile.

[ortiga]

When your child has been murdered by a sociopathic, murderous, lying monster, everything is fair game. Joran will begin now to get his just desserts - he (and soon his family) is persona non grata on the Island of Aruba. The Dutch are sending him death threats. He's made his life and his parent's lifves and his brother's lives a living h3ll!

The lying Van der Sloots, Paulus/Daury and Anita will suffer the consequences of their disgusting behavior forever. Hopefully they will also be forced to flee the Island they have caused so much pain and expense for!

Beth has been vindicated. The truth has been revealed and now we wait for justice to be served!

Go, Beth! :patriot:

"everything is fair game".....but Beth went on the Shuller show, and he said he saw Jesus in her eyes. Is she religious or not? Would Shuller approve of her line, used 3 times publicly now, that she wants to kill Joran?

Sorry, that's not Christianity, and I personally would not see Jesus in her eyes, but then I never did.

[ortiga]

Considering he murdered her daughter. I just can't blame her.
Seems like just about anyone who saw joran's confession would like to see him either dead or locked up for the rest of his useless life.
Peeling the skin off his face is a start.

IMO


There is no proof that he murdered her daughter. There is abundant evidence that she drank too much for days on end. On Saturday night one of her male friends took her to her bedroom (!) because she was intoxicated. She should have stayed at her hotel, IMO, where there were people to help her out when she drank too much.

IMO

[ortiga]

Can you imagine the horror the parents of the children anita was teaching must feel? How uttely frightening to think this lying, evil, hag was with their innocent children day in and day out! Oh my! {{{{SHIVER}}}}
IMO


Can you imagine the horror when the parents of the us kids learned that Beth Twitty was lying to their kids in their own school assemblies? Is that why she quit that gig?

[ortiga]

Other than for judicial investigation, Joran van der Sloot is no longer welcome on the island.

“Twitty had already mentioned on TV last year that Aruban detectives have asked him about Natalee’s epileptic or allergic reactions. It is not inconceivable that during the ‘spy confessions’, Joran has used Twitty’s statements to trace a wrong track.”

Amigoe (http://www.amigoe.com/english/)

But, on Geraldo Beth said several times, that the ONLY question, the ONLY question asked to her or Jug was about seizures or epilepsy. I wonder if Beth was lying, or if Jug was lying, when he mentioned the allergic reactions.

IMO

[ortiga]

Yes, so simple and so obvious.

Patrick's criminal record is from over a decade ago. He has paid for his crime(s) and is now a respected member of society.

Joran's crime(s) are current. He has not and most likely never will pay (in a court of law, anyway) for his crime(s) and never will be a respected member of society, he will be shunned for the rest of his life.

And don't bother with "there is no proof of a crime", we all hear the confession from the sociopath's mouth.

Joran has neither been accused of a crime nor convicted of one, and, no crime has been alleged to have occurred.

But, is it a crime to threaten someone on Tv and to say one wants to kill someone? I do know a Christian would never say that, nor approve of that.

IMO

[ortiga]

You're right about the cries for links. Not asked for anymore, because everyone knows they are EVERYWHERE.

Joran will never be able to retract this confession. At the very least Aruba, The Netherlands, America totally believe he disposed of Natalee Holloway, possibly alive. He is despised and the lowest form of useless human garbage.

imo

what crime, specifically, did Joran "confess" to?

[ortiga]

I understand that Patrick is a convicted criminal.. and that quite possibly he did this whole thing for the wrong reasons... but I just do not see how it matters. I would think, naturally, only a criminal would be able to fool a criminal (Joran) into trusting them the way Patrick did and get him to spell his guts, and I think he knew that. Either way, how can you ignore what came out of Joran's mouth
IMO


I sure don't see anyone ignoring what he said, lol.

The point is that the law much be followed before convicting a person of any crime.

But then, I did not see that he admitted to any crime. He sure seems like a dope, but did not admit to a crime.

IMO

[ortiga]

I wonder what kind of twisted mentality it takes to keep trying to bring everyone down to the level of Joran the murderer? The victim's mother, the victim's friends, the victim's family and now the man who was able to get the murderer to tell the truth!

If Joran escapes the long arm of the law, he will pay, in that his life will be a living h3ll: he will not be able to trust anyone, who will hire hiim, where will he live, his parents have been humiliated, his brothers will never overcome Joran's legacy.

I think Joran should "run away."

imo


Apparently along with the departure of FW, the rules of the board flew away. Before, it was not allowed to state as a fact that a suspect was a murderer.

I guess the rules of the board have changed to allow that?

No one has been proven to have been murdered. No one has been proven to be killed, or to have died. No crime has been proven to have been committed.

Please stick to the facts. Doesn't that embarrass you to call someone a murderer without any proof, any trial, any conviction, any death?

TY

[ortiga]

Thanks NoNic!
You're right, of course. However the cries for links are gettng less and less.
This time joran stepped in it.
I think he should be locked up for 15 years on the body dumping charge alone. Throw in tampering with evidence and obstructions of justice. About 30 years sounds good to me! Or more.
I'm sure there are other charges that could apply. Same with the parents. And I still think the kalpoes are involved. But this is aruba so I doubt they will do anything more than delay, delay, delay until it goes away.
imo


When did Joran admit to dumping a body?

:read:

[No Nic]

You either didn't read your own link, or if you did, you don't understand it.

While Mr. Croes may personally prefer that Joran not return to Aruba, it isn't in his power to forbid Joran to do so, just as you don't have the authority to deny Joran, or anyone else, entrance to the U.S.

When you don't understand something, don't hesitate to ask for help. There are several posters here who will be happy to explain things in terms you can understand.


I read it and understood it perfectly. JORAN IS NOT WANTED IN ARUBA.

I never said they could legally keep him out. Don't twist my words.

Believe me, you and those several posters are the last I would go to for any kind of "help".