Discussion Thread 2007 (Part 6)

[Luke Davis]

Besides the case is considered cold but not closed. Making the entire file open to the public would be detrimental to any investigation.My understanding is the file can be viewed by some people but not copied. I imagine John Q. Kelly and others would be held to certain standards by a code of ethics.

[Grandad]

My understanding is the file can be viewed by some people but not copied. I imagine John Q. Kelly and others would be held to certain standards by a code of ethics.

I can't imagine any attorney who had respect for any code of ethics filing the two bogus lawsuits Kelly did, or making some of the comments he's made on TV regarding this case.

[Luke Davis]

I can't imagine any attorney who had respect for any code of ethics filing the two bogus lawsuits Kelly did, or making some of the comments he's made on TV regarding this case.
Did Kelly actually file them? I thought it was a Balbor and Kelly represented the family. In any case, Kelly said he would be allowed to review the file, or translation of the file.

[Luke Davis]

Beth and Matt will be on Oprah on Wednesday, Jan 17th.

This from a tv promo.

Next Wednesday (http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200801/tows_lineup_20080109.jhtml)

[Luke Davis]

Anita says bring it on (http://www.dailymail.com/News/200801110670)

:beer:

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) -- The mother of a former suspect in the disappearance in Aruba of American teenager Natalee Holloway said Friday she hopes a probe will bring closure for all the families involved.

"I would like the investigation to continue,'' said Anita van der Sloot, mother of Joran van der Sloot, one of three youths extensively interrogated by police and prosecutors in connection with the disappearance.

"I would also like to see an investigation into the investigation,'' she added during the television interview.

Anita van der Sloot, who appeared for the interview with her husband and son, said her family as well as Holloway's needed answers.

"I think it's also very important that for them -- for everybody, but particularly for them -- there has to be clarity,'' she said. "Then we can move on. As long as that doesn't happen there will be questions. There will be fingers pointing at Joran.''

Joran van der Sloot, who said little during the interview, said he doubts that Holloway is still alive.

Holloway was on a high school graduation trip to Aruba when she vanished May 30, 2005, hours before she was to return home to Mountain Brook, Ala. Extensive searches of the island turned up no trace of her.

The three former suspects, who are the last people known to have seen her, initially said they dropped Holloway off at her hotel.

After hotel security cameras disproved that, they were arrested and Joran van der Sloot said he left her alone on a beach and had no idea how she disappeared.

Authorities in Aruba say the case against the three could be reopened if additional evidence surfaces. But if they were to go to trial now with virtually no hope of guilty verdicts, they would lose the opportunity to try them later if strong evidence emerges.

:patriot:

[SaraSidle]

Thank goodness you keep us up on this Luke. I do not know where you get your information but I appreciate it very much.

[fairmaiden]

Thank goodness you keep us up on this Luke. I do not know where you get your information but I appreciate it very much.

As do I, Sara ....

[fairmaiden]

Anita says bring it on (http://www.dailymail.com/News/200801110670)

:beer:

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) -- The mother of a former suspect in the disappearance in Aruba of American teenager Natalee Holloway said Friday she hopes a probe will bring closure for all the families involved.

"I would like the investigation to continue,'' said Anita van der Sloot, mother of Joran van der Sloot, one of three youths extensively interrogated by police and prosecutors in connection with the disappearance.

"I would also like to see an investigation into the investigation,'' she added during the television interview.

Anita van der Sloot, who appeared for the interview with her husband and son, said her family as well as Holloway's needed answers.

"I think it's also very important that for them -- for everybody, but particularly for them -- there has to be clarity,'' she said. "Then we can move on. As long as that doesn't happen there will be questions. There will be fingers pointing at Joran.''

Joran van der Sloot, who said little during the interview, said he doubts that Holloway is still alive.

Holloway was on a high school graduation trip to Aruba when she vanished May 30, 2005, hours before she was to return home to Mountain Brook, Ala. Extensive searches of the island turned up no trace of her.

The three former suspects, who are the last people known to have seen her, initially said they dropped Holloway off at her hotel.

After hotel security cameras disproved that, they were arrested and Joran van der Sloot said he left her alone on a beach and had no idea how she disappeared.

Authorities in Aruba say the case against the three could be reopened if additional evidence surfaces. But if they were to go to trial now with virtually no hope of guilty verdicts, they would lose the opportunity to try them later if strong evidence emerges.

:patriot:

Thanks so much for posting this, Luke.

I find the last paragraph enlightening .... sort of a "cop out" actually. Why do the "authorities in Aruba" think this would go to trial now, with "virtually no hope of guilty verdicts"?? It enforces the opinion I've had all along. They have no evidence of any crimes, which is what the Judge declared when he released Joran et al this last time.

Didn't Hans Mos say they had "incriminating new evidence ??

JMO

[Grandad]

<SNIP>

Didn't Hans Mos say they had "incriminating new evidence ??

JMO


I guess the "new" evidence was "Dr." Hodges's thoughtprint.

You would think with the information Hodges gave the search party they would have found something by now.

Or you might think the school that that awarded the degree of "Doctor" to Hodges would have rescinded it by now.

It's amazing nuts like this can actually earn a living.

[Luke Davis]

Dutch Show (http://pauwenwitteman.vara.nl/uitzending.php)

11 januari 2008

Vanavond in Pauw & Witteman: Joran van der Sloot en zijn ouders Paul en Anita en misdaadverslaggever Peter R. de Vries over de zaak Natalee Holloway


Worth watching just to see Joran's new look. (disguise?)

[fairmaiden]

I guess the "new" evidence was "Dr." Hodges's thoughtprint.

You would think with the information Hodges gave the search party they would have found something by now.

Or you might think the school that that awarded the degree of "Doctor" to Hodges would have rescinded it by now.

It's amazing nuts like this can actually earn a living.

Hi Grandad ....

It's both amazing and disgusting, in my opinion. Peddling their wares in Natalee's name .... is BEYOND shameful.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Dutch Show (http://player.omroep.nl/?aflID=6010887&start=0:01:06)

7/12/2008

[Luke Davis]

http://www.tobysterling.net/2008/01/joran-van-der-sloot-loses-temper-after.html

Then, Joran threw his glass of wine in the face of one of the show's other guests, crime reporter Peter R. De Vries.

[SaraSidle]

thanks again Luke You are on top of this one

[Luke Davis]

thanks again Luke You are on top of this one
You are welcome. Here is another link. At CTV (IN Session) there is a partial translation.

http://www.itelevision.nl/joran-gooit-glas-wijn-in-het-gezicht-van-peter-r/

Basically, Anita and Paul want some tips followed up on that were neglected. They suggest that there is not a reliable profile of Natalee, something that would be standard in a normal investigation.


IMO

[SaraSidle]

So I am thinking they all want to blame the K brothers. JMO

[Chocoholic]

So I am thinking they all want to blame the K brothers. JMO

I'm thinking that there are far more leads than just the Kalpoe brothers.

[Chocoholic]

Thanks Luke, Great find!
So Mr. lack of control strikes again. It's just a matter of time.......
The bombs gonna go off again!
Tic, tic, tic! Who's child will it be this time?
Poor anita, tries her best to make her kid look like one of the good ones. Then joran, as usual, makes his mom look like a fool.
Looks to me that joran has brought a lot of stress to that family, anita is HUGE! Face bloated. Too much booze or food? I bet booze. If joran was my son, I'd start drinking......hard.
IMO!!!

Were you able to listen to the entire interview in Dutch and comprehend it? I'm stunned!

Anita isn't the one with a reputation for comped stays at all-inclusive resorts. That would be beth and co.

[Grandad]

<snip>

Basically, Anita and Paul want some tips followed up on that were neglected. They suggest that there is not a reliable profile of Natalee, something that would be standard in a normal investigation.


IMO

So I am thinking they all want to blame the K brothers. JMO

It's highly unlikely any tips about the Kalpoes were neglected.

[Heyes]

Were you able to listen to the entire interview in Dutch and comprehend it? I'm stunned!

Anita isn't the one with a reputation for comped stays at all-inclusive resorts. That would be beth and co.

I'm stunned that you don't comprehend that the actions of joran show that the boy has NO self control. None!
He just proved once again that he has a violent nature.
The vandersloots will never regain their reputation as long as they tow joran around with them. anita tried her best to repair the damage and in one single moment joran made her look foolish....again.
That boy needs to be locked up!'
He is a danger to society.
IMO
Tic, tic, tic,
who will the next victim be?

IMO

[ortiga]

Thanks Luke, Great find!
So Mr. lack of control strikes again. It's just a matter of time.......
The bombs gonna go off again!
Tic, tic, tic! Who's child will it be this time?
Poor anita, tries her best to make her kid look like one of the good ones. Then joran, as usual, makes his mom look like a fool.
Looks to me that joran has brought a lot of stress to that family, anita is HUGE! Face bloated. Too much booze or food? I bet booze. If joran was my son, I'd start drinking......hard.
IMO!!!

Once again, shame on you Heyes. Consistently over the life of this board you have been the most disruptive influence, saying the most bombastic and shameful things. I don't know why the moderators seem to have one standard for you and a different standard for the rest of us.

IMO

[Chocoholic]

I'm stunned that you don't comprehend that the actions of joran show that the boy has NO self control. None!
He just proved once again that he has a violent nature.
The vandersloots will never regain their reputation as long as they tow joran around with them. anita tried her best to repair the damage and in one single moment joran made her look foolish....again.
That boy needs to be locked up!'
He is a danger to society.
IMO
Tic, tic, tic,
who will the next victim be?

IMO

Throwing wine in somebody's face makes a person a danger to society? Do you have any credible research to back that up or is that just your ever so humble opinion?

Victim? Can you please point out where the victim is in this case? The courts have already established that no evidence exists that a violent crime was committed against Natalee.

IMO you're doing nothing more than promoting the filling of love-bowls but few here fall for that after 2.5 yrs.

[Luke Davis]

Suspect in Aruba case attacks talk show host


AP (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080113.waruba13/BNStory/International/home)

“He did it out of a kind of frustration, annoyance,” De Vries said on Nova Saturday. “I spoke with him later, and he apologized.

[No Nic]

Once again, shame on you Heyes. Consistently over the life of this board you have been the most disruptive influence, saying the most bombastic and shameful things. I don't know why the moderators seem to have one standard for you and a different standard for the rest of us.

IMO

No double standard with the moderators, imo.

Heyes' post was no different than what is posted on this board everytime Beth makes an appearance or her name is brought up. It is YOU that has the double standard, it appears you think it's okay to say shameful things about Beth or even Natalee, but no one should do the same with Anita.

imo

[Luke Davis]

Joran pours the wine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpPYqk_klXc)

[HiLife]

I'm stunned that you don't comprehend that the actions of joran show that the boy has NO self control. None!
He just proved once again that he has a violent nature.
The vandersloots will never regain their reputation as long as they tow joran around with them. anita tried her best to repair the damage and in one single moment joran made her look foolish....again.
That boy needs to be locked up!'
He is a danger to society.
IMO
Tic, tic, tic,
who will the next victim be?

IMO

Oh Heyes! Your post is right on! Joran is an out of control mess. This story was pricless - vintage angry, impulsive Joran. Imagine what he must have done to Natalee when she did not go along with his wishes? Poor Natalee. :( She didn't have a chance. :(

Keep showing your true, ugly colors, Joran. You won't be able to keep up your "control" for too long at this rate. Geez. Not even being on TV can stop his rage.

Come over to CTV - all the disruptive sources have been sent to band camp! :D

jmo

[HiLife]

Julia channeled Beth to find out that she is "big hootie"? lol

Beth lied way more than Joran, all you have to do is go watch her reruns on youtube, that is if you can stand seeing a vitriolic, glazed eyed ranting person insisting that the only thing known for sure is that Natalee was gangraped, that it just isn't known what they did when they were "through with her". . In fact, she said to babwawa that is what her "biggest hope" was.......

I believe that explains the facial surgery....doing away with the old, without having to apologize....look in the mirror and every thing is new.....but the same thing is inside.....

poor Natalee

You must feel very annoyed that Beth is seen as she is seen.

Why hasn't she appeared "before the world" since she was so roundly laughed at after the girls just wanna have fun program? Even Greta declined to keep that video of Beth on the Fox archives. Did you catch the one where she was in the casino security area? What an appalling change-of-face from the mostlyquite pretty one she used to have. Do you have a screen shot of that? Lots and lots of black eye makeup and shadow, big new lips, really quite frightful. Which is why Greta probably didn't show it again. Did you notice that Greta put herself always in the best light and made poor Beth be filmed in the most terrible shadows? Greta must have had a reason for that......IMO!

I will never forget the way, with every TV appearance, Beth's exposed cleavage seemed to increase. It was highlighted by the placement of those little microphones that they wear on those programs.

IMO

Once again, shame on you Heyes. Consistently over the life of this board you have been the most disruptive influence, saying the most bombastic and shameful things. I don't know why the moderators seem to have one standard for you and a different standard for the rest of us.
IMO

So, Ortiga, is this last post of yours yet another "Do as I say, not as I do" post? How about all the shameful things YOU'VE said? No Nic is right. YOU are the one with the "double standard" - NOT THE MODERATORS, as you say.

Before you go looking for mine, remember that YOU are the only one complaining and blaming the moderators. Now THAT is shameful, especially after what is just a small sampling of your posts above.

jmo

[Heyes]

Once again, shame on you Heyes. Consistently over the life of this board you have been the most disruptive influence, saying the most bombastic and shameful things. I don't know why the moderators seem to have one standard for you and a different standard for the rest of us.

IMOOriginally Posted by ortiga
Julia channeled Beth to find out that she is "big hootie"? lol

Beth lied way more than Joran, all you have to do is go watch her reruns on youtube, that is if you can stand seeing a vitriolic, glazed eyed ranting person insisting that the only thing known for sure is that Natalee was gangraped, that it just isn't known what they did when they were "through with her". . In fact, she said to babwawa that is what her "biggest hope" was.......

I believe that explains the facial surgery....doing away with the old, without having to apologize....look in the mirror and every thing is new.....but the same thing is inside.....

poor Natalee

Quote:
Originally Posted by ortiga
You must feel very annoyed that Beth is seen as she is seen.

Why hasn't she appeared "before the world" since she was so roundly laughed at after the girls just wanna have fun program? Even Greta declined to keep that video of Beth on the Fox archives. Did you catch the one where she was in the casino security area? What an appalling change-of-face from the mostlyquite pretty one she used to have. Do you have a screen shot of that? Lots and lots of black eye makeup and shadow, big new lips, really quite frightful. Which is why Greta probably didn't show it again. Did you notice that Greta put herself always in the best light and made poor Beth be filmed in the most terrible shadows? Greta must have had a reason for that......IMO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ortiga
I will never forget the way, with every TV appearance, Beth's exposed cleavage seemed to increase. It was highlighted by the placement of those little microphones that they wear on those programs.

IMO

Quote:
Originally Posted by ortiga
Once again, shame on you Heyes. Consistently over the life of this board you have been the most disruptive influence, saying the most bombastic and shameful things. I don't know why the moderators seem to have one standard for you and a different standard for the rest of us.
IMO





So, Ortiga, is this last post of yours yet another "Do as I say, not as I do" post? How about all the shameful things YOU'VE said? No Nic is right. YOU are the one with the "double standard" - NOT THE MODERATORS, as you say.

Before you go looking for mine, remember that YOU are the only one complaining and blaming the moderators. Now THAT is shameful, especially after what is just a small sampling of your posts above.

jmo
__________________
Joran VDS ~ Primetime Live Interview 2/23/06:

Q. "Why should you be believed after all of the lying that you have done in this situation?"
A. "There is absolutely no reason to believe me."
Q. "Would you believe you?"
A. "Um I wouldn't probably not believe myself no."


Quick Reply

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL .
Thanks NN and HiLife. ortiga needed a little reminder I guess.

I still say it's too much booze or food! chipmunk cheeks. lol lol
LMAO!
anita looks soooo foolish. funny thing about joran..... you can dress him up but ya can't take him anywhere! lol lol


Tic, Tic, Tic,..... whose child is next joran??????

IMO

[No Nic]

Originally Posted by ortiga
Julia channeled Beth to find out that she is "big hootie"? lol

Beth lied way more than Joran, all you have to do is go watch her reruns on youtube, that is if you can stand seeing a vitriolic, glazed eyed ranting person insisting that the only thing known for sure is that Natalee was gangraped, that it just isn't known what they did when they were "through with her". . In fact, she said to babwawa that is what her "biggest hope" was.......

I believe that explains the facial surgery....doing away with the old, without having to apologize....look in the mirror and every thing is new.....but the same thing is inside.....

poor Natalee

Quote:
Originally Posted by ortiga
You must feel very annoyed that Beth is seen as she is seen.

Why hasn't she appeared "before the world" since she was so roundly laughed at after the girls just wanna have fun program? Even Greta declined to keep that video of Beth on the Fox archives. Did you catch the one where she was in the casino security area? What an appalling change-of-face from the mostlyquite pretty one she used to have. Do you have a screen shot of that? Lots and lots of black eye makeup and shadow, big new lips, really quite frightful. Which is why Greta probably didn't show it again. Did you notice that Greta put herself always in the best light and made poor Beth be filmed in the most terrible shadows? Greta must have had a reason for that......IMO!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ortiga
I will never forget the way, with every TV appearance, Beth's exposed cleavage seemed to increase. It was highlighted by the placement of those little microphones that they wear on those programs.

IMO

Quote:
Originally Posted by ortiga
Once again, shame on you Heyes. Consistently over the life of this board you have been the most disruptive influence, saying the most bombastic and shameful things. I don't know why the moderators seem to have one standard for you and a different standard for the rest of us.
IMO





So, Ortiga, is this last post of yours yet another "Do as I say, not as I do" post? How about all the shameful things YOU'VE said? No Nic is right. YOU are the one with the "double standard" - NOT THE MODERATORS, as you say.

Before you go looking for mine, remember that YOU are the only one complaining and blaming the moderators. Now THAT is shameful, especially after what is just a small sampling of your posts above.

jmo
__________________
Joran VDS ~ Primetime Live Interview 2/23/06:

Q. "Why should you be believed after all of the lying that you have done in this situation?"
A. "There is absolutely no reason to believe me."
Q. "Would you believe you?"
A. "Um I wouldn't probably not believe myself no."


Quick Reply

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL .
Thanks NN and HiLife. ortiga needed a little reminder I guess.

I still say it's too much booze or food! chipmunk cheeks. lol lol
LMAO!
anita looks soooo foolish. funny thing about joran..... you can dress him up but ya can't take him anywhere! lol lol


Tic, Tic, Tic,..... whose child is next joran??????

IMO

They can't even "dress him up". I thought he looked like a little Frankenstein before, now he looks like a wanna-be thug or something....really weird and scary.

imo

[ortiga]

Before you go looking for mine, remember that YOU are the only one complaining and blaming the moderators. Now THAT is shameful, especially after what is just a small sampling of your posts above.

jmo

Believe me, I don't have enough spare time, nor the desire to go back and reread posts from those like you.

[Luke Davis]

A book recently published by Beth Twitty, Natalee's mother, on the case is expected to be discussed in detail.


Oprah Winfrey says she thinks its time to ask the question "What happened to Natalee Holloway?" on her show, after the teenager has been missing for almost two years and is still making headline news.:hat:

[fairmaiden]

Oprah Winfrey says she thinks its time to ask the question "What happened to Natalee Holloway?" on her show, after the teenager has been missing for almost two years and is still making headline news.:hat:

Well, Luke .... I hope there might be some tough questions asked .... and no acceptance of the customary "it's not relevant". Just a few of the questions I would like asked ....

Why was there no contact with ALE immediately upon landing on Aruba ?? What was involved in the "family investigation"

Why were the MB students encouraged NOT to talk to the authorities ??

Did the Twitty twins seek counsel as soon as they arrived home ??

Why, when ALE wanted access to the students, Beth asked them to "go through the proper channels" ??

Why did she contend Joran hit Natalee, then suddenly reveal on DAYSIDE it was GVC who hit her ??

Why, if she was so desperate to know what happened to her daughter, was she ONLY willing to accept ONE scenario ?? Why was she not open to others ??

Why was the TRUTH of the "kidnapping" NOT revealed in her book ??

Why did she agree to punish the entire Island of Aruba by calling for a boycott ??

Why was she insistent upon "establishing the character" of her daughter in the very beginning .... by not telling the truth. Did she really think it MATTERED ??

Those are just a FEW I can think of, off hand.

JMO

[Grandad]

Well, Luke .... I hope there might be some tough questions asked .... and no acceptance of the customary "it's not relevant". Just a few of the questions I would like asked ....

Why was there no contact with ALE immediately upon landing on Aruba ?? What was involved in the "family investigation"

Why were the MB students encouraged NOT to talk to the authorities ??

Did the Twitty twins seek counsel as soon as they arrived home ??

Why, when ALE wanted access to the students, Beth asked them to "go through the proper channels" ??

Why did she contend Joran hit Natalee, then suddenly reveal on DAYSIDE it was GVC who hit her ??

Why, if she was so desperate to know what happened to her daughter, was she ONLY willing to accept ONE scenario ?? Why was she not open to others ??

Why was the TRUTH of the "kidnapping" NOT revealed in her book ??

Why did she agree to punish the entire Island of Aruba by calling for a boycott ??

Why was she insistent upon "establishing the character" of her daughter in the very beginning .... by not telling the truth. Did she really think it MATTERED ??

Those are just a FEW I can think of, off hand.

JMO

It would take a week for Oprah to ask Beth all the tough questions that should be asked, but I doubt that you'll hear a single one.

I had hoped that Oprah would be objective, if not tough, but I'm starting to agree with those who think this is damage control for Phil McGraw.

[Grandad]

Suspect in Aruba case attacks talk show host.

AP (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080113.waruba13/BNStory/International/home)

“He did it out of a kind of frustration, annoyance,” De Vries said on Nova Saturday. “I spoke with him later, and he apologized.


We really should try to keep things in perspective.

What Bo Dietl did was an attack on Joran. What Joran did was simply showing contempt for a tabloid journalist.

[fairmaiden]

It would take a week for Oprah to ask Beth all the tough questions that should be asked, but I doubt that you'll hear a single one.

I had hoped that Oprah would be objective, if not tough, but I'm starting to agree with those who think this is damage control for Phil McGraw.

Hi Grandad ....

I agree with you .... it WOULD take a long time to ask all those questions which need to be asked. I'm holding out the hope she will be at least "objective" too. Personally, I don't see how "damage control" is POSSIBLE for Phil McGraw. As far as I'm concerned, the "evidence" of what was done with the Skeeter recording, is irrefutable.

JMO

[No Nic]

We really should try to keep things in perspective.

What Bo Dietl did was an attack on Joran. What Joran did was simply showing contempt for a tabloid journalist.


I find it hysterical how the pro-Joran crowd were jumping for joy that de Vries was going to investigate this case, he was much respected, honest and competent, etc.,etc. When his conclusion was that JK2 were the most likely responsible, he became a "tabloid journalist".

The same with Oprah. "Let's send her an open letter, she will take care of Dr. Phil" (para). When they recieved no answer, she also fell from favor.

If you do not have Joran on a pedestal, you are nobody. The mind-set of Joran supporters.

imo

[Grandad]

Hi Grandad ....

I agree with you .... it WOULD take a long time to ask all those questions which need to be asked. I'm holding out the hope she will be at least "objective" too. Personally, I don't see how "damage control" is POSSIBLE for Phil McGraw. As far as I'm concerned, the "evidence" of what was done with the Skeeter recording, is irrefutable.

JMO

I'm not saying it's right, or it will work, but if they can succeed in demonizing J2K, there are some people who will believe what Phil McGraw did was justified.

[fairmaiden]

I find it hysterical how the pro-Joran crowd were jumping for joy that de Vries was going to investigate this case, he was much respected, honest and competent, etc.,etc. When his conclusion was that JK2 were the most likely responsible, he became a "tabloid journalist".

The same with Oprah. "Let's send her an open letter, she will take care of Dr. Phil" (para). When they recieved no answer, she also fell from favor.

If you do not have Joran on a pedestal, you are nobody. The mind-set of Joran supporters.

imo

No Nic .... Your last paragraph in this post is ridiculous. I have no idea why you need to "classify" individuals who post on the board .... divide them into "categories". I don't have Joran on ANY pedestal, but I don't think he harmed Natalee. Does that make me a "Joran supporter" ?? ((And I DO realize, this is not about me, but how DO you classify a poster who does not have Joran on that pedestal, but does not think he harmed Natalee ??))

JMO

[Grandad]

I find it hysterical how the pro-Joran crowd were jumping for joy that de Vries was going to investigate this case, he was much respected, honest and competent, etc.,etc. When his conclusion was that JK2 were the most likely responsible, he became a "tabloid journalist".

The same with Oprah. "Let's send her an open letter, she will take care of Dr. Phil" (para). When they recieved no answer, she also fell from favor.

If you do not have Joran on a pedestal, you are nobody. The mind-set of Joran supporters.

imo

When you respond to my post it gives the impression your response has something to do with what I've said.

I never considered De Vries anything other than a tabloid journalist, or said his involvement would benefit Joran, or uncover any facts.

I never proposed contacting Oprah or anyone else. She's a TV host. A cut above Nancy Gace, perhaps, but just a TV host.

I've never believed this case would be solved by, or benefit from the input of journalists or TV personalities.

[fairmaiden]

I'm not saying it's right, or it will work, but if they can succeed in demonizing J2K, there are some people who will believe what Phil McGraw did was justified.

Well, Grandad .... If anyone is really interested in knowing the TRUTH here, how could they possibly believe .... IF Phil McGraw altered that recording .... it could be justified ?? That to me is the basis of Beth's argument. I have heard her COUNTLESS times say .... "Deepak admitted on international television that they all raped my daughter". I find the whole "rape" thing beyond belief in the FIRST place. The word "RAPE" was never mentioned by Skeeter.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

We really should try to keep things in perspective.

What Bo Dietl did was an attack on Joran. What Joran did was simply showing contempt for a tabloid journalist.AP does the basic story and subscribers are free to change the heading. It is interesting to see the different spin of local newspapers presented in their heading. Tosses wine, throws wine, spat, outburst, attack, etc.

My personal favorite,

Aruba ex-suspect lets wine go to reporter's head.

Chicago Sun-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/739695,CST-NWS-neth14.article)

[Grandad]

Well, Grandad .... If anyone is really interested in knowing the TRUTH here, how could they possibly believe .... IF Phil McGraw altered that recording .... it could be justified ?? That to me is the basis of Beth's argument. I have heard her COUNTLESS times say .... "Deepak admitted on international television that they all raped my daughter". I find the whole "rape" thing beyond belief in the FIRST place. The word "RAPE" was never mentioned by Skeeter.

JMO


Neither Beth, nor Phil McGraw nor some posters on this board are interested in the truth. They're simply interested in punishing someone for something that may not have happened, without any concern for who the guilty party, if there even is a guilty party, might be.

It really is mind boggling, but it is what it is.

[fairmaiden]

Neither Beth, nor Phil McGraw nor some posters on this board are interested in the truth. They're simply interested in punishing someone for something that may not have happened, without any concern for who the guilty party, if there even is a guilty party, might be.

It really is mind boggling, but it is what it is.

AGAIN, I agree with you .... "mind-boggling", to say the least.

The clearest evidence of the TRUTH being told in this case, was the recent proclamation of the Judge who AGAIN released Joran et al, saying .... "there is no evidence/indication of any violent crime".

JMO

[Luke Davis]

He runs a TV show, not a clinic, private practice or rehab facility. He’s not even licensed in any state in the United States, so calling him “doctor” is leaving people with the wrong impression. The licensing board in California has decided he's an "entertainer" and doesn't come under their definition of a "psychologist" so he doesn't have to be licensed.

BLOG (http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNK32LNRUFGI8OH1)

While this is from a blog, it isn't difficult to find old news stories about lawsuits involving "Dr. Phil". He has won lawsuits because his show is strictly entertainment.



IMO:hat:

[ortiga]

Neither Beth, nor Phil McGraw nor some posters on this board are interested in the truth. They're simply interested in punishing someone for something that may not have happened, without any concern for who the guilty party, if there even is a guilty party, might be.

It really is mind boggling, but it is what it is.

Imagine how they'd act if something ever were proven to have happened to Natalee. I think it's an education issue. Lack thereof.

[No Nic]

Imagine how they'd act if something ever were proven to have happened to Natalee. I think it's an education issue. Lack thereof.


I suggest you go back to class and pay attention this time. :D

[fairmaiden]

BLOG (http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/post/PLNK32LNRUFGI8OH1)

While this is from a blog, it isn't difficult to find old news stories about lawsuits involving "Dr. Phil". He has won lawsuits because his show is strictly entertainment.



IMO:hat:

He has also LOST law suits too, hasn't he Luke ?? I find the man despicable, even BEFORE he got involved in Natalee's case. His motives are SO obvious .... the latest of which was getting involved in the Britney Spears issue. The man is just a leech .... lowering himself to levels beyond belief just to get people to watch his TV show.

JMO

[HiLife]

I suggest you go back to class and pay attention this time. :D

LOLOLOL!!! :D Too much time spent watching Beth Youtube Re-runs!

[Grandad]

Imagine how they'd act if something ever were proven to have happened to Natalee. I think it's an education issue. Lack thereof.


A few of them have posted that even if it were proved that J2K hadn't harmed Natalee in any way they should still go to jail for lying and for what they put the family through.

Of course, none of them have said if it's proved Natalee ran off Beth should be punished for lying and what she put the van der Sloots and the Kalpoes through.

And then they go on to say they don't know anything about a double standard.

[No Nic]

According to a dutch poster on another board, when Peter's wife says sarcastically to Anita "Your really raised him well", Anita replies "I guess not".

Has Anita actually made an honest statement ???

http://www.nos.nl/nosjournaal/artikelen/2008/1/13/130108_joran_nova.html

DISCLAIMER:Since I don't have a clue what they are saying, personally, I am only reporting what a dutch poster has translated.

[HiLife]

According to a dutch poster on another board, when Peter's wife says sarcastically to Anita "Your really raised him well", Anita replies "I guess not".

Has Anita actually made an honest statement ???

http://www.nos.nl/nosjournaal/artikelen/2008/1/13/130108_joran_nova.html

DISCLAIMER:Since I don't have a clue what they are saying, personally, I am only reporting what a dutch poster has translated.

LOL! Finally, she admits it! How embarassing. But she had no choice! Joran claims to care so much about his parents, yet has no compunction about making them look like fools in front of the world! Like a fool, Paulus was laughing. Can't wait to hear more from Joran....you know we will!

jmo

[No Nic]

LOL! Finally, she admits it! How embarassing. But she had no choice! Joran claims to care so much about his parents, yet has no compunction about making them look like fools in front of the world! Like a fool, Paulus was laughing. Can't wait to hear more from Joran....you know we will!

jmo

Yeah, this interview was supposed to be their last, to show the public what a nice young man Joran was. Since it failed miserably, the clueless, classless VDS family MUST try, try again.

imo

[HiLife]

Yeah, this interview was supposed to be their last, to show the public what a nice young man Joran was. Since it failed miserably, the clueless, classless VDS family MUST try, try again.

imo

When will they learn? Not many people believe Joran. Can you imagine their homecoming back to Aruba? How about their family members in the Netherlands? E-m-b-a-r-a-s-s-i-n-g. What a cowardly sucker punch.

There's no rehabilitating Joran, IMO. They should just concentrate on the next two before it's too late.

jmo

[No Nic]

When will they learn? Not many people believe Joran. Can you imagine their homecoming back to Aruba? How about their family members in the Netherlands? E-m-b-a-r-a-s-s-i-n-g. What a cowardly sucker punch.

There's no rehabilitating Joran, IMO. They should just concentrate on the next two before it's too late.

jmo

Could be too late already, after all, they have had Paulus and Joran as role models.

I wonder if the next son in line has been moved out to the room in the back yard yet? Probably as soon as Joran left for Holland, don't you think?, I believe he was a teen at that time. Super-parents, ya' know, get 'em to the teen years and move 'em on out.

imo

[HiLife]

Could be too late already, after all, they have had Paulus and Joran as role models.

I wonder if the next son in line has been moved out to the room in the back yard yet? Probably as soon as Joran left for Holland, don't you think?, I believe he was a teen at that time. Super-parents, ya' know, get 'em to the teen years and move 'em on out.

imo
That foolish clown Paulus laughing is beyond pathetic! No wonder Joran is the way he is. Now I have no doubts and you're right, it probably is too late for the other 2 sons.

Wonder what Paulus' colleagues back on Aruba are thinking? Or maybe they enjoy murder-suspect-slapstick, too? After his public smackdown by the head of the Aruba Justice Department, Mr. Jorj, my guess is that this latest Joran stunt with Daddy Paulus laughing like a clown is not going to go down well.

jmo

jmo

[No Nic]

That foolish clown Paulus laughing is beyond pathetic! No wonder Joran is the way he is. Now I have no doubts and you're right, it probably is too late for the other 2 sons.

Wonder what Paulus' colleagues back on Aruba are thinking? Or maybe they enjoy murder-suspect-slapstick, too? After his public smackdown by the head of the Aruba Justice Department, Mr. Jorj, my guess is that this latest Joran stunt with Daddy Paulus laughing like a clown is not going to go down well.

jmo

jmo

I don't think much will change after this latest fiasco, I think their reputation/
image was already in the toilet. That is why they needed to go on Dutch TV in an attempt to redeem themselves. Just another failure in lives of the Van der Sloots......ho hum.

imo

[HiLife]

I don't think much will change after this latest fiasco, I think their reputation/
image was already in the toilet. That is why they needed to go on Dutch TV in an attempt to redeem themselves. Just another failure in lives of the Van der Sloots......ho hum.

imo

Thanks, Joran. :punch:

[Luke Davis]

Beth's top YouTube video has about 70,000 views. Joran tops it with a million in a few days. Can Beth top it by throwing wine on Oprah?

:hat:

[HiLife]

Beth's top YouTube video has about 70,000 views. Joran tops it with a million in a few days. Can Beth top it by throwing wine on Oprah?

:hat:

Maybe Matt will. But I doubt it. He comes from a family with class.

jmo

[Luke Davis]

Maybe Matt will. But I doubt it. He comes from a family with class.

jmoHard to believe, one glass of wine. Top YouTube video, tv coverage, newspapers...

:hat:

[fairmaiden]

That foolish clown Paulus laughing is beyond pathetic! No wonder Joran is the way he is. Now I have no doubts and you're right, it probably is too late for the other 2 sons.

Wonder what Paulus' colleagues back on Aruba are thinking? Or maybe they enjoy murder-suspect-slapstick, too? After his public smackdown by the head of the Aruba Justice Department, Mr. Jorj, my guess is that this latest Joran stunt with Daddy Paulus laughing like a clown is not going to go down well.

jmo

jmo

HiLife .... I watched that video twice. Paulus was "laughing" ((smiling maybe??)) BEFORE Joran threw the wine. There was a split second we saw him AFTER Joran threw the wine .... then he was hidden from view. Now .... he certainly wasn't "laughing like a clown", as you state .... we saw him for a split second after the wine-throwing. It's my opinion, he didn't have time to react to what Joran had done.

ETA .... I should add, IF it were as obvious as you state that Paulua was "laughing like a clown", specifically at what Joran had done .... I would be right there with you. It wasn't AT ALL obvious that was the case.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9WobsfooPk

Anita apologizes.

[fairmaiden]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9WobsfooPk

Anita apologizes.

Again Luke .... it is so obvious to me that Paulus was laughing or smiling when all of them stood up to shake hands. It is certainly NOT obvious to me that he is laughing specifically at what Joran did. We only see him for a split second AFTER the wine-throwing.

No one is condoning the throwing of the wine .... it wasn't a smart thing to do, but to say that Paulus was laughing STRICTLY because Joran did it, is a misrepresentation.

JMO

[Grandad]

<snip>

No one is condoning the throwing of the wine .... it wasn't a smart thing to do, but to say that Paulus was laughing STRICTLY because Koran did it, is a misrepresentation.

HMO


I rarely disagree with you Fairmaiden, but I have absolutely no problem with Joran's throwing a glass of wine in De Vries face.

The man is a tabloid journalist who is more interested in sensationalism than he is in facts.

The only potential danger was that the wine might stain the guys shirt, which, I'm sure, Joran would have been happy to replace.

Throwing the wine did absolutely no damage, especially compared to the damage done by De Vries conclusions that he bandied about without any regard for the truth, or the false accusations hurled at Joran and the Kalpoes by Beth.

In fact, if De Vries wants a new shirt from Joran, I'll be happy to send Joran two shirts and a bottle of wine, just in case.

[terrysdoor]

Again Luke .... it is so obvious to me that Paulus was laughing or smiling when all of them stood up to shake hands. It is certainly NOT obvious to me that he is laughing specifically at what Joran did. We only see him for a split second AFTER the wine-throwing.

No one is condoning the throwing of the wine .... it wasn't a smart thing to do, but to say that Paulus was laughing STRICTLY because Joran did it, is a misrepresentation.

JMO

Hello Fair........... I agree i didn`t see it as Paulus laughing at what Joran did either and i don`t think it was a smart thing for him to do IMO and i am sure Anita and Paulus agrees that it was not the right thing to do IMO

[ortiga]

Beth's top YouTube video has about 70,000 views. Joran tops it with a million in a few days. Can Beth top it by throwing wine on Oprah?

:hat:

She doesn't have to. With the donations she'll receive through the publicity on Ophrah she should be able to retire. Or write another book on......oh yeah, there's nothing else to write a book about, all the lies and exaggerations were already put down on paper. How many times can she call her daughter passive aggressive or say that Natalee was not totally to blame for her divorce from Jug. How many times can she explain over and over that she told Natalee to look out, to exercise good judgement, and that men of all ages would be attracted to her. After all, it's not BHTs fault that Natalee did not take her advice. (Which is what BHT obviously was implying!)

Sad that she's getting Matt into the publicity though, obviously he doesn't want to or he would have entered that publicity field long ago.

Maybe she's got him on there to corroborate that tale she told in her book about Matt being the one that recognized the seriousness of Natalee's absence from the plane, and said they had to call the FBI. I wonder if she'll have him explain why he waited so long to call Dave, if Matt indeed thought it was so serious.

Anyway, IMO she is using her poor kid.

Poor Matt. Poor Natalee. :(

[Luke Davis]

Again Luke .... it is so obvious to me that Paulus was laughing or smiling when all of them stood up to shake hands. It is certainly NOT obvious to me that he is laughing specifically at what Joran did. We only see him for a split second AFTER the wine-throwing.

No one is condoning the throwing of the wine .... it wasn't a smart thing to do, but to say that Paulus was laughing STRICTLY because Joran did it, is a misrepresentation.

JMO

Paulus may be laughing because Joran got doussed by Peter's wife.:shrug:

[fairmaiden]

I rarely disagree with you Fairmaiden, but I have absolutely no problem with Joran's throwing a glass of wine in De Vries face.

The man is a tabloid journalist who is more interested in sensationalism than he is in facts.

The only potential danger was that the wine might stain the guys shirt, which, I'm sure, Joran would have been happy to replace.

Throwing the wine did absolutely no damage, especially compared to the damage done by De Vries conclusions that he bandied about without any regard for the truth, or the false accusations hurled at Joran and the Kalpoes by Beth.

In fact, if De Vries wants a new shirt from Joran, I'll be happy to send Joran two shirts and a bottle of wine, just in case.

That's OK Grandad .... We can disagree sometimes ;)

JMO

[SukiJane]

Again Luke .... it is so obvious to me that Paulus was laughing or smiling when all of them stood up to shake hands. It is certainly NOT obvious to me that he is laughing specifically at what Joran did. We only see him for a split second AFTER the wine-throwing.

No one is condoning the throwing of the wine .... it wasn't a smart thing to do, but to say that Paulus was laughing STRICTLY because Joran did it, is a misrepresentation.

JMO

It appears to me that Paulus is either smiling or actually laughed at the incident. Paulus was looking off, not smiling, and turns his head directly toward Peter after the wine is thrown and smiles or laughs, not sure, but either way he looks like a clown. What's strange to me about this whole thing is neither Paulus or Anita went to their golden boy's side, which I believe would be my first reaction. I think the two of them are afraid of Joran, although I can't really blame them, for I certainly would be. The kid is a walking time bomb in my opinion, and needs to be leashed and muzzled whenever he goes out in public.

Even though I couldn't understand a flippin' thing from the actual interview, it's interesting that Joran gives the same "sometimes hate filled, smirky, "whatever" looks toward his mom and dad as he did Peter.

Just curious but does anyone else think that Paulus should just go ahead and pluck out that patch of weeds growing on the top of his head instead of poofing it and trying to make it blend with what is poofed in the back. How does one get poof in hair so thin...weird.

jmo

[fairmaiden]

It appears to me that Paulus is either smiling or actually laughed at the incident. Paulus was looking off, not smiling, and turns his head directly toward Peter after the wine is thrown and smiles or laughs, not sure, but either way he looks like a clown. What's strange to me about this whole thing is neither Paulus or Anita went to their golden boy's side, which I believe would be my first reaction. I think the two of them are afraid of Joran, although I can't really blame them, for I certainly would be. The kid is a walking time bomb in my opinion, and needs to be leashed and muzzled whenever he goes out in public.

Even though I couldn't understand a flippin' thing from the actual interview, it's interesting that Joran gives the same "sometimes hate filled, smirky, "whatever" looks toward his mom and dad as he did Peter.

Just curious but does anyone else think that Paulus should just go ahead and pluck out that patch of weeds growing on the top of his head instead of poofing it and trying to make it blend with what is poofed in the back. How does one get poof in hair so thin...weird.

jmo

You really didn't see Paulus extending his hand, and smiling , when they first stood up ?? He was somber faced when he extended his hand??

There must be a different video of the incident.

JMO

[SukiJane]

You really didn't see Paulus extending his hand, and smiling , when they first stood up ?? He was somber faced when he extended his hand??

There must be a different video of the incident.

JMO

Yes, I saw the smiles and the handshaking but to me you definitely get a better look at Paulus in Luke's latest link. Paulus was already standing and didn't seem to be smiling, looking away from the hosts, when the wine toss occurred. He then looks directly at Peter, and smiles or laughs, or maybe both.

IMO

[HiLife]

You really didn't see Paulus extending his hand, and smiling , when they first stood up ?? He was somber faced when he extended his hand??

There must be a different video of the incident.

JMO

Just a quick pop-in....but yes, you are right, FM, that when first getting up, Paulus was smilling, about to shake someone's hand....however, as he turned, still smiling and saw the incident, he cracked up even MORE, staring straight at DeVries. You need to watch the video more closely as Paulus turns and sees what happened.

I call it murder-suspect-slapstick. Inexcusable.

jmo

[HiLife]

Yes, I saw the smiles and the handshaking but to me you definitely get a better look at Paulus in Luke's latest link. Paulus was already standing and didn't seem to be smiling, looking away from the hosts, when the wine toss occurred. He then looks directly at Peter, and smiles or laughs, or maybe both.

IMO

We posted at the same time! I'm about to go out.....but you are right. You saw what I saw. Paulus was done with the person he was first smiling at, looked at DeVries and laughed harder. No doubt about it. Shameful.

I had the same reaction as you, thinking that I would have immediately gone around to Joran's side with a horrified expression on my face. I will say that Anita came close to looking shocked and disappointed. I also agree with you that they appear to be afraid of this monster.

What will be next?

jmo

[Luke Davis]

Just a quick pop-in....but yes, you are right, FM, that when first getting up, Paulus was smilling, about to shake someone's hand....however, as he turned, still smiling and saw the incident, he cracked up even MORE, staring straight at DeVries. You need to watch the video more closely as Paulus turns and sees what happened.

I call it murder-suspect-slapstick. Inexcusable.

jmo

From the different interviews I have seen, Peter accepted the apologies.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

We posted at the same time! I'm about to go out.....but you are right. You saw what I saw. Paulus was done with the person he was first smiling at, looked at DeVries and laughed harder. No doubt about it. Shameful.

I had the same reaction as you, thinking that I would have immediately gone around to Joran's side with a horrified expression on my face. I will say that Anita came close to looking shocked and disappointed. I also agree with you that they appear to be afraid of this monster.

What will be next?

jmo


Rum 151:hat:

[SukiJane]

We posted at the same time! I'm about to go out.....but you are right. You saw what I saw. Paulus was done with the person he was first smiling at, looked at DeVries and laughed harder. No doubt about it. Shameful.

I had the same reaction as you, thinking that I would have immediately gone around to Joran's side with a horrified expression on my face. I will say that Anita came close to looking shocked and disappointed. I also agree with you that they appear to be afraid of this monster.

What will be next?

jmo

Good to see ya HiLife!!

I hope that wasn't pride on Paulus' face as he turns toward Joran, right before Anita blocks our view. DANG!!

Anita was definitely disappointed, but I really don't think she was too shocked. Maybe she was, but to me she seemed to act as though it was pretty typical behavior from Joran...just my opinion.

jmo

[No Nic]

Good to see ya HiLife!!

I hope that wasn't pride on Paulus' face as he turns toward Joran, right before Anita blocks our view. DANG!!

Anita was definitely disappointed, but I really don't think she was too shocked. Maybe she was, but to me she seemed to act as though it was pretty typical behavior from Joran...just my opinion.

jmo

I don't think Anita was shocked at all...embarrassed maybe, because it was on tape, making it impossible for her to sell her fantasy of the good little "sporter".

We must remember she has been through the gauntlet with Joran.

What we have heard about her "sporter":

He belonged to a gang called the P*mps.
Killed his dog
Beat his brothers
Stole money from her
He downloads porn on the family computer
Broke car windsheilds more than any other drug dealer
Destroyed hotel property
Ran rampant thru the streets of Aurba, illegally drinking and gambling
Threw someome off a bridge
Threw another throuth a window
Lies to everyone that enters his line of sight
Preyed 20 times before on tourist girls
Likely caused the disappearance of 1 tourist girl
Traveled to the US against the wishes of parents and his attorney
Wrote a book against their wishes (they wanted to be included, lol)
and..........sissy throws wine in the face of another, memorialized on tape for all the world to see.

Luke, how many hits does this video have on You Tube now?

Did I miss anything?? Feel free to add.

Anita knows exactly what type of person she has raised and it ain't pretty.

imo

[SukiJane]

I don't think Anita was shocked at all...embarrassed maybe, because it was on tape, making it impossible for her to sell her fantasy of the good little "sporter".

We must remember she has been through the gauntlet with Joran.

What we have heard about her "sporter":

He belonged to a gang called the P*mps.
Killed his dog
Beat his brothers
Stole money from her
He downloads porn on the family computer
Broke car windsheilds more than any other drug dealer
Destroyed hotel property
Ran rampant thru the streets of Aurba, illegally drinking and gambling
Threw someome off a bridge
Threw another throuth a window
Lies to everyone that enters his line of sight
Preyed 20 times before on tourist girls
Likely caused the disappearance of 1 tourist girl
Traveled to the US against the wishes of parents and his attorney
Wrote a book against their wishes (they wanted to be included, lol)
and..........sissy throws wine in the face of another, memorialized on tape for all the world to see.

Luke, how many hits does this video have on You Tube now?

Did I miss anything?? Feel free to add.

Anita knows exactly what type of person she has raised and it ain't pretty.

imo

Hey NoNic,

Yep, quite a list for our lil innocent sporter, I'd say!

I have to admit I was a little impressed with the smoothness of his little wine tossing escapade. He takes a sip of his wine, he thinks about it, he sets the glass back down, he casually stands up smiles and shakes hands with the hosts, and ever so subtly grabs his spit laced glass of wine, tossing the liquid right into his target's eye, with what seemed to be quite a bit of force...my goodness!!

I personally don't see how anyone could condone this behavior. I mean really it's not like DeVries was confronting him while he's gambling, or harrassing him in a bar while he's trying to pick up chicks. Surely whatever came from DeVries' mouth on that show, was to be expected.

jmo

[Luke Davis]

I don't think Anita was shocked at all...embarrassed maybe, because it was on tape, making it impossible for her to sell her fantasy of the good little "sporter".

We must remember she has been through the gauntlet with Joran.

What we have heard about her "sporter":

He belonged to a gang called the P*mps.
Killed his dog
Beat his brothers
Stole money from her
He downloads porn on the family computer
Broke car windsheilds more than any other drug dealer
Destroyed hotel property
Ran rampant thru the streets of Aurba, illegally drinking and gambling
Threw someome off a bridge
Threw another throuth a window
Lies to everyone that enters his line of sight
Preyed 20 times before on tourist girls
Likely caused the disappearance of 1 tourist girl
Traveled to the US against the wishes of parents and his attorney
Wrote a book against their wishes (they wanted to be included, lol)
and..........sissy throws wine in the face of another, memorialized on tape for all the world to see.

Luke, how many hits does this video have on You Tube now?

Did I miss anything?? Feel free to add.

Anita knows exactly what type of person she has raised and it ain't pretty.

imo

NoNic, hard to tell because there are several versions but it is incredible.

426,932
215,130
135,118
etc.

73,257 was Beth's most watched

Probably Beth has the most if you add them all together.


IMO

[Luke Davis]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1089/529534390_b1733c6918.jpg

[HiLife]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1089/529534390_b1733c6918.jpg

Luke..............HILARIOUS!!!

[HiLife]

From the different interviews I have seen, Peter accepted the apologies.

IMO

Yes, but it's hard to unring a bell, put toothpaste back in its tube or wine back in the glass!

:biggrin:

[HiLife]

Good to see ya HiLife!!

I hope that wasn't pride on Paulus' face as he turns toward Joran, right before Anita blocks our view. DANG!!

Anita was definitely disappointed, but I really don't think she was too shocked. Maybe she was, but to me she seemed to act as though it was pretty typical behavior from Joran...just my opinion.

jmo

I think what the world saw was the VanDerSloot dynamic.....Paulus and Joran, partners in Shame and Anita the disappointed, scolding mom, apologizing for the two delinquents.

jmo

[SaraSidle]

on geez Luke If that tape doesn't say it all I do not know what will!!!!!!! ty

[HiLife]

From the different interviews I have seen, Peter accepted the apologies.

IMO

I thought about this some more and I'm noticing that according to DeVries, Joran and Anita apologized. But not Paulus? Says volumes.

imo

[Luke Davis]

Oprah reminder (http://www.oprah.com/tows/coming/tows_come_main.jhtml)

Blog from audience member (http://sas87.multiply.com/journal/item/9/OPRAH)


What was once promising wasn't so special after all. The show has been recorded with no wine throwing or other notable event.

IMO

[fairmaiden]

Oprah reminder (http://www.oprah.com/tows/coming/tows_come_main.jhtml)

Blog from audience member (http://sas87.multiply.com/journal/item/9/OPRAH)


What was once promising wasn't so special after all. The show has been recorded with no wine throwing or other notable event.

IMO

Someone not too familiar with the case, I would think Luke. Oprah had "Natalee Holloway on ...................."

JMO

[ortiga]

Someone not too familiar with the case, I would think Luke. Oprah had "Natalee Holloway on ...................."

JMO

Funny!!

"Then she had Natalee Holloway on, the mother of the missing Aruba girl. "

I can tell the world has been glued to the tube on this case.

[No Nic]

Funny!!

"Then she had Natalee Holloway on, the mother of the missing Aruba girl. "

I can tell the world has been glued to the tube on this case.


One person's blog does not reflect the "world"s view. :rolleyes:

[Luke Davis]

Oprah promo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aXle_NLXcA)

[SaraSidle]

okay is it just me or was Beth and Oprah's conversation boring

[Luke Davis]

okay is it just me or was Beth and Oprah's conversation boringI found it very emotional, can't remember when Beth has cried so much. I was expecting more out of Matt. Thought it was interesting that they brought up Joran and his wine throwing ability.



Oprah (http://www.wtok.com/news/headlines/13845582.html)

The mother of missing teenager, Natalee Holloway, was a guest on "Oprah" Wednesday.

Beth Holloway has not spoken publicly since Aruban investigators closed the case and released three suspects for the last time.

Holloway said she still believes that some new information could come unexpectedly and solve the mystery of what happened to her daughter.

"The facts are these are the last three men that were known to be seen with Natalee alive. And we do know the condition that she was in when she got into the car," said Holloway. "And we know the conduct they engaged in with her. And after that, we have different stories of what they gave to interrogators to explain what they did with her that night.''

Holloway said finding Natalee's remains would end the nightmare. She said she would talk to former chief suspect Joran van der Sloot, but only if he were hooked up to a polygraph.

[SaraSidle]

okay thanks. I did not get to see the whole episode

[Grandad]

"Holloway said finding Natalee's remains would end the nightmare. She said she would talk to former chief suspect Joran van der Sloot, but only if he were hooked up to a polygraph."

Someone should explain to Beth how polygraph tests are administered.

[Luke Davis]

Oprah 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3FG0CmHnxA)

[Luke Davis]

"Holloway said finding Natalee's remains would end the nightmare. She said she would talk to former chief suspect Joran van der Sloot, but only if he were hooked up to a polygraph."

Someone should explain to Beth how polygraph tests are administered.I say go with the thought prints. Where's Carla Baron when we need her?

[SaraSidle]

thanks again Luke. I did miss part of the tape you posted for Oprah

[ortiga]

Oprah 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3FG0CmHnxA)


OMG, how embarrassing.

She used the word "journey" 5 times, as "where I am in my journey" "John is farther along in his journey than I am". paraphrased.

That gives me the creeps how she can refer to her reaction to her daughter's disappearance as a "journey".

And...John and I see how perpetrators can just come and take our children.....huh??


She assumed the little girl voice once more with the simpery smile and the wide eyes....the Barbie look, or was it "skipper".

Poor Matt.

Poor Natalee.

But, Beth did write a book that "beautifully CELEBRATES her daughter's life" says Oprah.

OMG, that horrible book with all the lies in it, where she calls Natalee passive aggressive was a "celebration" of Natalee's life?

:eek:

But, I was sure surprised that Oprah did not mention the foundation. Maybe she allowed handouts soliciting donations.

IMO

[ortiga]

"Holloway said finding Natalee's remains would end the nightmare. She said she would talk to former chief suspect Joran van der Sloot, but only if he were hooked up to a polygraph."

Someone should explain to Beth how polygraph tests are administered.

Beth is the one who should be hooked up to a polygraph. Beth "We never tried to speculate, we always stuck to the truth" Holloway Twitty.

[No Nic]

<snipped, because no one wants to see it again, imo)

IMO


It is a fact that others (as I am sure Oprah did) read Beth's book and did not twist and spin what was written the way you have. Thank God !!

BTW, I think Beth looked lovely and your description is tainted with..um..something I cannot understand.......jealousy, maybe??

imo

[Luke Davis]

WOW!!!!!!!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdf28nxMtC4)

[Luke Davis]

Beth exposed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NbaRp0d_dk)

[Luke Davis]

drug overdose (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25-LfFkzgas)

[fairmaiden]

WOW!!!!!!!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdf28nxMtC4)

Luke .... I don't know whether this is true or not, but I've never kept it a secret while posting here. There is just something wrong with this picture. I've thought it from the very beginning.

There was never any question in my mind at all that Beth thought Natalee had left voluntarily. None whatsoever. Hopefully we find out more about this.

JMO

[ortiga]

WOW!!!!!!!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdf28nxMtC4)

WOW incredible!! Who were those 2 people?

The guy says he has "carol" on tape saying that she knew about the abuse?

Beth's best friend was named "carol", no?

What was that program, Luke?

[ortiga]

Luke .... I don't know whether this is true or not, but I've never kept it a secret while posting here. There is just something wrong with this picture. I've thought it from the very beginning.

There was never any question in my mind at all that Beth thought Natalee had left voluntarily. None whatsoever. Hopefully we find out more about this.

JMO

ITA with that, FM. And it makes total sense that she found out about the disappearance much earlier than 11-12 am. And that the whole thing with the trooper and calling the state department, the "US" embassy with a cell phone on a holiday was just a big lie. And that it was Matt's idea to call the FBI, and that it was Matt's idea not to call Dave until much later.

Do you know who those 2 people were?

[Luke Davis]

WOW incredible!! Who were those 2 people?

The guy says he has "carol" on tape saying that she knew about the abuse?

Beth's best friend was named "carol", no?

What was that program, Luke?

What you see is what you get. I did notice after Oprah, people were leaving comments on YouTube about two Americans spilling the beans. Now, will any media in the US cover it? Perhaps another book?

[fairmaiden]

ITA with that, FM. And it makes total sense that she found out about the disappearance much earlier than 11-12 am. And that the whole thing with the trooper and calling the state department, the "US" embassy with a cell phone on a holiday was just a big lie. And that it was Matt's idea to call the FBI, and that it was Matt's idea not to call Dave until much later.

Do you know who those 2 people were?

Hey ortiga .... :seeya:

I don't know who they are. .... but evidently people with lots of "documentation". According to what they said ... Beth's reason for going to Aruba was a "vacation". This absolutely reinforces my opinion that Natalee left voluntarily, and that is what Beth thought. I'm now wondering if this might have been a reason for them not urging the MB students to talk to ALE . Could they have been afraid that Natalee might have talked to some of her friends about "problems" at home, and this could have been mentioned to the authorities ??

ETA .... Perhaps it WAS mentioned to the FBI.

JMO

[ortiga]

Hey ortiga .... :seeya:

I don't know who they are. .... but evidently people with lots of "documentation". According to what they said ... Beth's reason for going to Aruba was a "vacation". This absolutely reinforces my opinion that Natalee left voluntarily, and that is what Beth thought. I'm now wondering if this might have been a reason for them not urging the MB students to talk to ALE . Could they have been afraid that Natalee might have talked to some of her friends about "problems" at home, and this could have been mentioned to the authorities ??

ETA .... Perhaps it WAS mentioned to the FBI.

JMO


The part about the "vacation" doesn't mean anything to me. Whenever you enter a country, at least the countries I've entered, you are handed that form and you have to choose "business, vacation" or other. Something like that. Sometimes if you choose business you are given the 3rd degree. So I can see that she might have chosen "vacation" as being the easiest. I would have said that too.

The relevant part is that she entered much earlier than she said. I will never forget that insistence without an explanation....."I knew I had to get there THAT DAY" WTH was that about? It sticks out there like a sore thumb big mystery......

[ortiga]

What you see is what you get. I did notice after Oprah, people were leaving comments on YouTube about two Americans spilling the beans. Now, will any media in the US cover it? Perhaps another book?

Nothing to do with the video, I thought Oprah was not too mushy/sympathetic with BHT. I never watch Oprah, but I was surprised at how matter of fact she was. Meanwhile Beth was doing the skipper bit with the eyes wide open and the simpering smile and the little girl voice, cloying is what I would say. But Oprah was acting more like the unconvinced prosecuting atty I'd say.

[fairmaiden]

The part about the "vacation" doesn't mean anything to me. Whenever you enter a country, at least the countries I've entered, you are handed that form and you have to choose "business, vacation" or other. Something like that. Sometimes if you choose business you are given the 3rd degree. So I can see that she might have chosen "vacation" as being the easiest. I would have said that too.

Can you tell how "well-traveled" I am ??;)

[ortiga]

Can you tell how "well-traveled" I am ??;)


I don't know about Aruba, but sometimes if you say "business" you are asked with whom, do you have business samples with you, and so forth. It might even affect how long you can stay, and whether or not you have to check you cameras and electronic stuff. You might even need a certain type of VISA if you are doing business in a country. I think that might be what Greta was griping about when they temporarily confiscated the big cameras the last time she went to Aruba with Beth (who apparently overcame her "fear" of Aruba as she told Oprahs producers).

[SaraSidle]

SO Luke what do you think after watching that video on YouTube?

[Grandad]

SO Luke what do you think after watching that video on YouTube?

Not Luke, but I think this is a tremor that's going to develop into a major earthquake.

[Luke Davis]

SO Luke what do you think after watching that video on YouTube?
I think it is more interesting than a glass of wine.


This is their website (http://www.guidedlight.com/index.html)

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[fairmaiden]

I think it is more interesting than a glass of wine.


This is their website (http://www.guidedlight.com/index.html)

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

As do I, Luke.

JMO

[Chocoholic]

WOW incredible!! Who were those 2 people?

The guy says he has "carol" on tape saying that she knew about the abuse?

Beth's best friend was named "carol", no?

What was that program, Luke?

Get with the program lady, it's called coaching.

[ortiga]

Get with the program lady, it's called coaching.

Seems more and more likely now, as the water starts to rush by all the fingers held in the dam.

[Luke Davis]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/uploads/01-17-detectives.jpg

News (http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_38773.php)

‘Natalee misbruikt door stiefvader Jug’

[Grandad]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/uploads/01-17-detectives.jpg

News (http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_38773.php)

‘Natalee misbruikt door stiefvader Jug’


These people have been heard from before, but they were ignored, or their message was actually suppressed.

The difference now is some people are actually listening to them, and they appear determined to have their story heard.

I don't believe in psychics, witches or fairies, but these two have talked with a lot of people, and while some of what they say may be questionable, they seem to be determined to hold Beth's feet to the fire, and are willing to ask her the questions tabloid TV has avoided.

[terrysdoor]

As do I, Luke.

JMO

Hello everyone........ to me this is very interesting this case is almost unbelieveable does this help explain why Natalee`s reputation was so important for Beth to explain to everyone ......

that has always made me wonder why the mother of a missing young lady needed to tell the world about her personal stuff :shrug:

[Luke Davis]

ORANJESTAD — Minister Rudy Croes (MEP) of Justice is of the opinion that the findings of the two American investigators Daniel Young and Kelly Castillo in the disappearance case of Natalee Holloway, must be seriously considered. The two assert that Natalee’s stepfather Jug Twitty has abused and impregnated her and that her mother Beth knew about it. The two also say that Natalee had died from an overdose two weeks after the night on the beach with Joran van der Sloot when she disappeared. “Joran is innocent”, said the investigators.

It appears from this computer printout that Beth Twitty has lied about her arrival time in Aruba.

The two private detectors could be elaborately heard and seen on radio and TV in local current affairs programs yesterday. TeleAruba spent half of her daily news program on an interview with Castillo and Young, who also call themselves ‘mediums’. They were also in Aruba last year, but there was hardly any attention paid to their stories. Not even Minister Croes, who at that time, two years ago, called them ‘Indian stories’. It was Tourism-minister Edison Briesen that introduced them to Croes, because he thought that the information was important enough to be included in the judicial investigation. Croes is of the opinion that now that the case against the suspects Joran and the brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe has brought no results, the Public Prosecution must also consider other scenarios. Castillo and Young’s findings must therefore be seriously investigated, said the minister. “After Beth has been in Oprah’s program, it will be good to tell the other side of the story.” Oprah Winfrey has spent some time on the Holiday-matter in her show yesterday.

PREGNANT

The real relationship between Natalee and her parents must be investigated. The American investigators say that they have proof that Natalee was sexually abused by her stepfather Jug and was even pregnant from him. “Beth and Jug (in the meantime divorced, red.) are doing everything possible to keep this family-secret hidden. Fact is that Natalee didn’t want to go home after her vacation in Aruba. And Beth knew that", said Young. Beth’s best friend, Carol Standifer had told the two investigators that she knew about the sexual abuse. “We have that conversation on tape. We also have proof that Beth didn’t arrive in Aruba at 23:00, but at 20:15 by air. She already knew that her daughter didn’t want to return home.”

That also appears from the original poster that Beth had already made in the United States, says Young. “This poster didn’t mention the word ‘kidnapping’ at all, like it was the case with later posters. It stated: ‘Natalee call, big hooty is on the island; call big hooty, we have to talk’.” The two investigators say that they have received the poster from the then leader of investigation, Karin Janssen. “Beth writes in her book that the kidnapping posters are the first ones that she has circulated in Aruba. But we know that that’s not true, and so does a huge number of Aruban people that have seen the first poster hung everywhere. Only in the United States, nobody knows this.”

Beth had lied, because she was afraid that the authorities would not have worked so hard on the disappearance case if they knew that the relationship between her and her daughter was bad. She also wanted to avoid that the investigation would concentrate on the family relations.

Natalee was still alive when her parents arrived in Aruba. “Joran has indeed left her on the beach, but she then made friends with some other people that had helped her go into hiding. She definitely didn’t want to go back and she remained a few weeks in San Nicolas. There’s where she had finally died from an overdose, as Dompig (police commissioner Gerold Dompig that led the police investigation, red.) had already said.”

Together with journalists of Aruba Today, they went to the location where Natalee’s body was supposedly buried. “The police didn’t believe us, but when we showed them the location, they immediately realized that something was not right. They were going to come back with dogs the next day to explore the place, but they never did”, said Young.

DOMPIG

Dompig indicated that he has never talked to the two Americans during the investigation, but that he does know who they are. “Wild cowboys, that’s what I thought of them. They spent a lot of time with Angela and Julia (Angela Munzenhofer and Julia Renfro; journalists of Aruba Today, red.) and every day had the wildest indications.” Dompig received so many information at that time that he saw no reason to further investigate Castillo and Young’s findings. Looking back now he says that he regrets that ‘the two have made their entry in a wrong manner’. “The story about sexual abuse explains in any case Jug’s conduct. He was very aggressive and threatened me and other police officers.”

The police have also indications like the first poster that Beth circulated and from stories of her friends about the relation between mother and daughter being disturbed, says Dompig. Whether Beth had lied about her arrival time in Aruba, he doesn’t know. “We have investigated the timeline and based on telephone conversations, flight information and flight movements, we know that these must match in theory and that Beth had arrived at the time she said she did.”

Dompig doesn’t dare say whether the two are integer, but from his former FBI-contact he knows that Castillo and Young have never had cases that can be considered serious. “In America, everybody can call himself private investigator, and I know that they do not represent much and are probably looking for their 15 minutes of fame.” But I still think that they may have found some things. “You never know. Besides, people say that children and fools cannot lie.”

DISTURBED

Julia Renfro told the Amigoe that the two Americans are ‘disturbed’ and that she doesn’t want to have anything to do with them. “They have also accused me of complicity in the death of Natalee.”

Castillo and Young have publicly accused Renfro on television yesterday that she has withheld information from them. ”We are aware of your problems and one day you will have to tell the truth. This is not healthy and people that do this, become alcoholic or drug addicts. Julia, give us back our tape”, said Young on TeleAruba yesterday.

Oprah

The American presenter didn’t spend an entire programme on Beth Twitty and her book Loving Natalee that according to several sources, is not selling well. Twitty had 15 minutes broadcasting time, and also Natalee’s brother the 18-year old Matt Holloway had the opportunity to say something. He has knowingly remained behind the scenes all this time and he said that his friends have supported him during this ‘terrible period’.

Also Natalee’s friends mentioned their loss and said how cheerful and special Natalee was. The broadcasting was for the rest a repetition of events. Beth said though that she had wanted to talk to Joran if he had consented to a lie-detector test. The recent wine incident in the Pauw & Witteman programme was no surprise for her. “What he did confirms how I think of him.”

She didn’t comment on whether she still considers Joran and the brothers Kalpoe as suspects. “I would like to look outside the existing circle of suspects, but everything continues to point at these three boys.”





Amigoe (http://www.amigoe.com/english/)

[ortiga]

Hello everyone........ to me this is very interesting this case is almost unbelieveable does this help explain why Natalee`s reputation was so important for Beth to explain to everyone ......

that has always made me wonder why the mother of a missing young lady needed to tell the world about her personal stuff :shrug:

According to Oprah BHT's book was a beautiful celebration of Natalee's life.

It's obvious that OW never read it.

I was really surprised that OW didn't let BHT advertise her foundation.

IMO

[ortiga]

snipped
Also Natalee’s friends mentioned their loss and said how cheerful and special Natalee was. The broadcasting was for the rest a repetition of events. Beth said though that she had wanted to talk to Joran if he had consented to a lie-detector test. The recent wine incident in the Pauw & Witteman programme was no surprise for her. “What he did confirms how I think of him.”

snipped Amigoe (http://www.amigoe.com/english/)

Luke was there a part 3 to the Oprah? Last I saw was the hawking of the book, which I think was right after Matt briefly talked. Was there part where the friends talked? Did Oprah finally allow BHT to push the foundation?

[cassidy]

According to Oprah BHT's book was a beautiful celebration of Natalee's life.

It's obvious that OW never read it.

I was really surprised that OW didn't let BHT advertise her foundation.

IMO

Oprah seems to have a knack for getting duped lately.

IMO of course :)

[Luke Davis]

Luke was there a part 3 to the Oprah? Last I saw was the hawking of the book, which I think was right after Matt briefly talked. Was there part where the friends talked? Did Oprah finally allow BHT to push the foundation?I don't think so. (At YouTube). Could be more at Oprah.com





Dutch reaction to Oprah (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKu9-ZI4zaE)

Transcript Oprah (http://www.oprah.com/search/search_results.jsp?querystring=natalee&fromSearchPage=yes)

[Heyes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9WobsfooPk

Anita apologizes.


LMAO!
I love the Justin Timberlake look *out of control* joran tries on. lol lol lol Funny, but an insult to Justin.

Whose child is next joran?


IMO

[Heyes]

It appears to me that Paulus is either smiling or actually laughed at the incident. Paulus was looking off, not smiling, and turns his head directly toward Peter after the wine is thrown and smiles or laughs, not sure, but either way he looks like a clown. What's strange to me about this whole thing is neither Paulus or Anita went to their golden boy's side, which I believe would be my first reaction. I think the two of them are afraid of Joran, although I can't really blame them, for I certainly would be. The kid is a walking time bomb in my opinion, and needs to be leashed and muzzled whenever he goes out in public.

Even though I couldn't understand a flippin' thing from the actual interview, it's interesting that Joran gives the same "sometimes hate filled, smirky, "whatever" looks toward his mom and dad as he did Peter.

Just curious but does anyone else think that Paulus should just go ahead and pluck out that patch of weeds growing on the top of his head instead of poofing it and trying to make it blend with what is poofed in the back. How does one get poof in hair so thin...weird.

jmo
Leashed and muzzled, good idea!

It would of saved her the time and embarrassment of running around the world apologizing for her wacked out kid, anita could maybe go back to teaching. Wait.....!!!! never mind. I don't think that woman should be teaching kids anything. We all see what they learn under her roof!
{{{shiver}}}
I would bet there are parents in aruba that would freak if they found out anita was their childs teacher. :chicken:

IMO

[Heyes]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/uploads/01-17-detectives.jpg

News (http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_38773.php)

‘Natalee misbruikt door stiefvader Jug’


And they're "mediums" LMAO!
What rock did the vandersloots find these two under?


IMO

[Luke Davis]

Video (http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=6192575384273936337&q=natalee+holloway&total=391&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7)

[fairmaiden]

And they're "mediums" LMAO!
What rock did the vandersloots find these two under?


IMO

Why do you think the Vds's are involved in bringing these people to the Island ?? Everything they mention, I have questioned. I have no idea whether what they say is true or not .... but are you interested in the truth, Heyes ?? This is what I have a problem understanding. Anyone who still has questions about Joran's guilt, has said .... IF there is credible evidence they harmed Natalee .... they should be tried, convicted, and punished. I, personally, would have no problem with that .... IF they are guilty. You just don't want to HEAR anything else. Notwithstanding the fact that they have been released predicated on the fact there doesn't appear to be any evidence or indication of a violent crime .... you are now prepared to say the VDS's are responsible for causing these people to "talk". Come on Heyes !!

JMO

[terrysdoor]

Video (http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=6192575384273936337&q=natalee+holloway&total=391&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7)

Hi luke what do you think of this IMO

[fairmaiden]

Video (http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=6192575384273936337&q=natalee+holloway&total=391&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=7)

Happy MLK Day, Luke .... :seeya:

Thanks for posting this . As I said to Heyes .... everything they talk about here, I know I have questioned .... the posters .... Beth knowing Natalee wasn't coming home .... not going to the authorities immediately .... the alleged sexual abuse ((I wonder if the twins knew anything about that?)) . None of what they say is really "new". I believe they are questions ANYONE would ask if they really ARE looking for the truth.

JMO

[terrysdoor]

And they're "mediums" LMAO!
What rock did the vandersloots find these two under?


IMO

they say Beth called them and ask them to get involved IMO

[terrysdoor]

Happy MLK Day, Luke .... :seeya:

Thanks for posting this . As I said to Heyes .... everything they talk about here, I know I have questioned .... the posters .... Beth knowing Natalee wasn't coming home .... not going to the authorities immediately .... the alleged sexual abuse ((I wonder if the twins knew anything about that?)) . None of what they say is really "new". I believe they are questions ANYONE would ask if they really ARE looking for the truth.

JMO

Hi fair i wonder why Greta has not mentioned this IMO or any other america media

[Luke Davis]

Hi luke what do you think of this IMOI would like to know more. Beth should be able to prove when they arrived in Aruba and shoot the whole thing down if false.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Hi fair i wonder why Greta has not mentioned this IMO or any other america mediaMy guess is this road does not lead back to J2K.


IMO

[fairmaiden]

Hi fair i wonder why Greta has not mentioned this IMO or any other america media

Hi terry .... :seeya:

It's my understanding they just came forward with this information a few days ago. I'm hoping the Ameridan media DOES get involved.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

they say Beth called them and ask them to get involved IMO

Yes they did, terry .... Perhaps they got more involved that she WANTED them to ??

JMO

[terrysdoor]

I would like to know more. Beth should be able to prove when they arrived in Aruba and shoot the whole thing down if false.

IMO

I agree Luke you would think she would IMO

[terrysdoor]

Yes they did, terry .... Perhaps they got more involved that she WANTED them to ??

JMO

you do have a point Fair they also say Julia has a lot of the same info IMO

[Heyes]

they say Beth called them and ask them to get involved IMO



lol, yeah, they say they have "proof" too!

Clearly this is just more of aruba's way of counter acting jorans recent nasty behavior on television. Again. Or maybe Oprah's show rattled them.
aruba's pr firm is hard at work. Unfortunatly once again they have managed to look foolish. Tourism must still be in the tank. Yup, one look at the vacancy's, the discounts and the empty beaches confirms.

Wonder who's jorans next victim will be?
IMO

BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!!!!!

[Luke Davis]

lol, yeah, they say they have "proof" too!

Clearly this is just more of aruba's way of counter acting jorans recent nasty behavior on television. Again. Or maybe Oprah's show rattled them.
aruba's pr firm is hard at work. Unfortunatly once again they have managed to look foolish. Tourism must still be in the tank. Yup, one look at the vacancy's, the discounts and the empty beaches confirms.

Wonder who's jorans next victim will be?
IMO

BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!!!!!

The big winner here could be Deepak and Satish. Dr. Phil might want to settle really quick.

IMO:hat:

[Grandad]

Hi terry .... :seeya:

It's my understanding they just came forward with this information a few days ago. I'm hoping the American media DOES get involved.

HMO


Do you really think the likes of Greta and Nancy Grace would give this couple a fair, objective hearing?

At this point they probably have people digging up whatever dirt they can find in the hope of discrediting them.

I believe if the two are willing, and able, to weather the storm, the main stream media might pay attention, and then we might get somewhere.

[fairmaiden]

Do you really think the likes of Greta and Nancy Grace would give this couple a fair, objective hearing?

At this point they probably have people digging up whatever dirt they can find in the hope of discrediting them.

I believe if the two are willing, and able, to weather the storm, the main stream media might pay attention, and then we might get somewhere.


I should have said that Grandad, because I hope the mainstream media DOES get involved with this. I agree with you as far as Greta, Nancy Grace, etc.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

lol, yeah, they say they have "proof" too!

Clearly this is just more of aruba's way of counter acting jorans recent nasty behavior on television. Again. Or maybe Oprah's show rattled them.
aruba's pr firm is hard at work. Unfortunatly once again they have managed to look foolish. Tourism must still be in the tank. Yup, one look at the vacancy's, the discounts and the empty beaches confirms.

Wonder who's jorans next victim will be?
IMO

BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!!!!!

Yes .... they say they have documentation. This is not CLEARLY Aruba's way of countering Joran's behavior. It's not clear at all to me. If you watched Oprah's show, there was nothing "rattling" about it. I thought Oprah was strictly "matter of fact" in her interview with Beth ....

According to the Judge, there is no evidence Joran HAD a "victim".

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Do you really think the likes of Greta and Nancy Grace would give this couple a fair, objective hearing?

At this point they probably have people digging up whatever dirt they can find in the hope of discrediting them.

I believe if the two are willing, and able, to weather the storm, the main stream media might pay attention, and then we might get somewhere.

I think it more likely Greta will interview Jossy about how silly these two are. Then JQK will say he has known about them and it is old news. Then Greta's panel will talk about how this case draws odd people.

IMO

[Grandad]

I think it more likely Greta will interview Jossy about how silly these two are. Then JQK will say he has known about them and it is old news. Then Greta's panel will talk about how this case draws odd people.

IMO

Do you think Greta's panel realize they're some of the "odd people"?

[Jayelles]

I would like to know more. Beth should be able to prove when they arrived in Aruba and shoot the whole thing down if false.

IMO

I haven't followed the Natalee Holloway case, but I watched this video yesterday and I'm a little intrigued.

What's the general reaction to it? Do the majority of people think the boy Joran (?) was involved?

I just didn't know what to make of the couple on the video.

[HiLife]

Do you think Greta's panel realize they're some of the "odd people"?

Only to "odd people." ;)

jmo

[HiLife]

Happy MLK Day, Luke .... :seeya:

Thanks for posting this . As I said to Heyes .... everything they talk about here, I know I have questioned .... the posters .... Beth knowing Natalee wasn't coming home .... not going to the authorities immediately .... the alleged sexual abuse ((I wonder if the twins knew anything about that?)) . None of what they say is really "new". I believe they are questions ANYONE would ask if they really ARE looking for the truth.

JMO
I guess the thing here is, it takes others much longer to understand or arrive at a truth that is so obvious to others.

jmo

[ortiga]

lol, yeah, they say they have "proof" too!

Clearly this is just more of aruba's way of counter acting jorans recent nasty behavior on television. Again. Or maybe Oprah's show rattled them.
aruba's pr firm is hard at work. Unfortunatly once again they have managed to look foolish. Tourism must still be in the tank. Yup, one look at the vacancy's, the discounts and the empty beaches confirms.

Wonder who's jorans next victim will be?
IMO

BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!!!!!

I wonder who Beth's next victim will be. Do you think that Matt really wanted to go on Oprah, or was Beth reacting to the fact that she appears to be completely alone now, everyone has deserted the ship!

Even with Ramsey, she had to give a kind of simpering admittance, oh so coy, that it's over between the 2 of them, now they are only "dear friends".

I bet. Ramsey probably got out his ten foot pole to keep her away after she kept using his name in an alleged romance. I think he's used to fending off gold diggers.

IMO

[fairmaiden]

I guess the thing here is, it takes others much longer to understand or arrive at a truth that is so obvious to others.

jmo

Well, HiLife .... You know, I don't agree with that.

I have posted about this case from the outset. I have also had questions since the outset, yet others .... without any question whatsoever ((since it was only the beginning)) have unequivocally echoed Beth's rallying cry.

Since I can only post for myself .... I don't do that. I have questions about things as a whole .... I don't just accept anything someone tells me ((not necessarily just Beth, but anyone)) as the absolute truth, if I'm not satisfied in my mind it's the truth, as I see it.

I have ALWAYS said, there is just something about this case that's not as it seems to be. The interesting thing about these latest 2 people .... THOSE are the questions I've had!!

I'm really hoping the mainstream media takes an interest in this. As I've said .... I have no clue whether what these people say is the truth .... I am absolutely intrigued, simply because they are asking all the questions I have asked. From the very beginning, it was very obvious to me Beth didn't think Natalee was kidnapped. That is one of the MOST obvious things, in my opinion. It seems to spiral from there.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

I wonder who Beth's next victim will be. Do you think that Matt really wanted to go on Oprah, or was Beth reacting to the fact that she appears to be completely alone now, everyone has deserted the ship!

Even with Ramsey, she had to give a kind of simpering admittance, oh so coy, that it's over between the 2 of them, now they are only "dear friends".

I bet. Ramsey probably got out his ten foot pole to keep her away after she kept using his name in an alleged romance. I think he's used to fending off gold diggers.

IMO

Morning, ortiga ....

There was something about the Oprah show which was different, IMO. Oprah seemed very "matter-of-fact" in her approach to Beth.

This is just my opinion .... but I think Beth has succeeded in fooling some people. Some people are attracted to "victimhood", it seems to me, without questioning a thing!! How can one NOT question this disappearance ?? How can one accept what Beth says WITHOUT question ?? Certainly not me.

I believe some people HAVE been fooled into thinking Beth was travelling 110 m.p.h., in the company of a State Trooper, because her daughter had been "kidnapped".

Not because these latest 2 people SAY so, but I DO believe Beth was in contact with Natalee, and KNEW Natalee had no intention of coming home. That has just been the most obvious to me since the beginning.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

I haven't followed the Natalee Holloway case, but I watched this video yesterday and I'm a little intrigued.

What's the general reaction to it? Do the majority of people think the boy Joran (?) was involved?

I just didn't know what to make of the couple on the video.

Good Morning, Jayelles .... Good to see you on this board.

I HAVE followed this case since the beginning, and like you, after watching that video .... I'm intrigued also. From what they say, they have been around since 2005 .... so they didn't just "appear" on the scene. If you've read any of the other posts here recently .... it's obvious that some have many questions about this case. I'm intrigued by this video, because these people are asking EXACTLY the questions I've always asked.

As I said before, I would like to see the mainstream media take an interest in this.

JMO

[ortiga]

Morning, ortiga ....

There was something about the Oprah show which was different, IMO. Oprah seemed very "matter-of-fact" in her approach to Beth.

snipped JMO

Oprah was on the cold and analytical side, IMO. She didn't fall for Beth. She didn't even let Beth push the foundation.

Maybe Oprah had heard all the other Beth interviews....I have to decide every morning whether to get up and be positive........violins and harps in background.

Beth and John Edwards have something in common....trite over told stories to seek sympathy. No, I take that back, that's an insult to JE to compare him to Twitty.

IMO

[Grandad]

Oprah was on the cold and analytical side, IMO. She didn't fall for Beth. She didn't even let Beth push the foundation.

Maybe Oprah had heard all the other Beth interviews....I have to decide every morning whether to get up and be positive........violins and harps in background.

Beth and John Edwards have something in common....trite over told stories to seek sympathy. No, I take that back, that's an insult to JE to compare him to Twitty.

IMO


I had posted before the interview was aired that perhaps Oprah wanted to decide whether to back Phil McGraw or cut him loose and let him fend for himself.

I agree there wasn't any indication Oprah was in Beth's corner, plus there may have been a few questions and answers that cast Beth in a negative light which Oprah had edited out. While she may not want to back Beth, I can understand her not wanting to crucify her either.

[fairmaiden]

I had posted before the interview was aired that perhaps Oprah wanted to decide whether to back Phil McGraw or cut him loose and let him fend for himself.

I agree there wasn't any indication Oprah was in Beth's corner, plus there may have been a few questions and answers that cast Beth in a negative light which Oprah had edited out. While she may not want to back Beth, I can understand her not wanting to crucify her either.

Morning Grandad ....

I can't think of any interview over the last 2 plus years, where I've seen Beth confronted with tough questions .... like, off the top of my head .... "What were you thinking when you decided to confront who you thought was a kidnapper" ?? "What was the deal with your first posters, when you asked "Little Hootie" to call "Big Hootie" .... WE NEED TO TALK" ?? "Why did you feel the ALE had to go through proper channels to interview your daughter's friends"?? SIMPLE questions .... questions I've never heard anyone ask her. Everyone I've heard seems to "pussyfoot" around Beth. I can't imagine those interviewers haven't THOUGHT about these questions .... why wouldn't they ask her ??

JMO

[Luke Davis]

I had posted before the interview was aired that perhaps Oprah wanted to decide whether to back Phil McGraw or cut him loose and let him fend for himself.

I agree there wasn't any indication Oprah was in Beth's corner, plus there may have been a few questions and answers that cast Beth in a negative light which Oprah had edited out. While she may not want to back Beth, I can understand her not wanting to crucify her either.

Reportedly, Oprah fired Dr. Phil but he begged forgiveness and he is more or less on probation. It seems reasonable that Oprah might want to speak with people Dr. Phil has backed. I think in some eyes, being on Oprah, Beth's credibility was raised which has to help Dr. Phil.

I think the timing is interesting with the case becoming cold. Dave gets attention with the search, Joran gets attentiion throwing wine and Beth comes out for an interview. Meanwhile, it is very quiet in the Kalpoe camp. What if they got a settlement while others were in the spotlight?

What bothers me, I have so many questions and may never get an answer. But then, Daniel Young and Kelly Castillo give me a glimmer of hope. Some say Aruba has gone to a new low. Others say they raise some interesting questions. Either way, it is NEW, not like the hopes we were teased with by Hans Mos and his proof Natalee was dead which never came forth.

What I like about Daniel and Castillo, is they say it like it is. No hair blowing in the wind, no hedging, no feeling, just stating the facts as they believe them to be. If they are wrong, easy enough to prove.


IMO

[terrysdoor]

Reportedly, Oprah fired Dr. Phil but he begged forgiveness and he is more or less on probation. It seems reasonable that Oprah might want to speak with people Dr. Phil has backed. I think in some eyes, being on Oprah, Beth's credibility was raised which has to help Dr. Phil.

I think the timing is interesting with the case becoming cold. Dave gets attention with the search, Joran gets attentiion throwing wine and Beth comes out for an interview. Meanwhile, it is very quiet in the Kalpoe camp. What if they got a settlement while others were in the spotlight?

What bothers me, I have so many questions and may never get an answer. But then, Daniel Young and Kelly Castillo give me a glimmer of hope. Some say Aruba has gone to a new low. Others say they raise some interesting questions. Either way, it is NEW, not like the hopes we were teased with by Hans Mos and his proof Natalee was dead which never came forth.

What I like about Daniel and Castillo, is they say it like it is. No hair blowing in the wind, no hedging, no feeling, just stating the facts as they believe them to be. If they are wrong, easy enough to prove.


IMO

Great post Luke.........IMO these two are raising some very interesting points they say they nothing to gain they seem to be putting out information that does raise questions IMO

[Grandad]

Morning Grandad ....

I can't think of any interview over the last 2 plus years, where I've seen Beth confronted with tough questions .... like, off the top of my head .... "What were you thinking when you decided to confront who you thought was a kidnapper" ?? "What was the deal with your first posters, when you asked "Little Hootie" to call "Big Hootie" .... WE NEED TO TALK" ?? "Why did you feel the ALE had to go through proper channels to interview your daughter's friends"?? SIMPLE questions .... questions I've never heard anyone ask her. Everyone I've heard seems to "pussyfoot" around Beth. I can't imagine those interviewers haven't THOUGHT about these questions .... why wouldn't they ask her ??

JMO


I really think many in the media were actually afraid they would be perceived as cruel if they asked a grieving mother tough questions.

I think ALE and the Aruban prosecutor had the same fear. If Aruba had taken a firmer stance, perhaps the media would have also.

I also believe the media was more concerned about lawsuits that might be brought by American citizens than by Arubans.

I believe the media didn't believe the suspects would find it easy to get legal representation in the U.S.

If Beth hadn't brought her bogus lawsuits, and forced the van der Sloots into a defensive position, the Arubans might not have found the legal representation they now have.

[Grandad]

Reportedly, Oprah fired Dr. Phil but he begged forgiveness and he is more or less on probation. It seems reasonable that Oprah might want to speak with people Dr. Phil has backed. I think in some eyes, being on Oprah, Beth's credibility was raised which has to help Dr. Phil.

I think the timing is interesting with the case becoming cold. Dave gets attention with the search, Joran gets attentiion throwing wine and Beth comes out for an interview. Meanwhile, it is very quiet in the Kalpoe camp. What if they got a settlement while others were in the spotlight?

What bothers me, I have so many questions and may never get an answer. But then, Daniel Young and Kelly Castillo give me a glimmer of hope. Some say Aruba has gone to a new low. Others say they raise some interesting questions. Either way, it is NEW, not like the hopes we were teased with by Hans Mos and his proof Natalee was dead which never came forth.

What I like about Daniel and Castillo, is they say it like it is. No hair blowing in the wind, no hedging, no feeling, just stating the facts as they believe them to be. If they are wrong, easy enough to prove.


IMO

I think what Young and Castillo have going for them is that a few people in the Aruban government have decided the kid glove approach hasn't worked, and it's now time to go on the offensive.

I don't know if the couple has the proof they claim they have, but they don't seem to be afraid to identify some of their sources, such as Carol Standifer, and they don't seem to be afraid of a lawsuit from "Jugs".

[ortiga]

snipped

What I like about Daniel and Castillo, is they say it like it is. No hair blowing in the wind, no hedging, no feeling, just stating the facts as they believe them to be. If they are wrong, easy enough to prove.


IMO

Their eyes didn't even roll back to see the whites!! While a camera happened to be around!!

You know I think this little flap with Britney is turning into an avalanche against Phil, according to MSNBC this am, turns out that Phil is not even a registered psychologist or psychiatrist....got himself a phD somewhere along the line but forgot to pass the licensing tests. So here he goes at the invitation of the family to interview Britney, the family thinking he is a psychologist. Then he goes out and tells all....

You'd think Oprah would be holding her nose. I agree that there was absolutely no need to crucify Beth, but Oprah seemed to be quite standoffish, almost as though she had to do the interview so let's get it over with. lol the item that Oprah seemed most interested in is if Beth and Ramsey are an "item". Note she didn't let BHT get away with the "dear friends" apcray.

IMO

[Jayelles]

Good Morning, Jayelles .... Good to see you on this board.

I HAVE followed this case since the beginning, and like you, after watching that video .... I'm intrigued also. From what they say, they have been around since 2005 .... so they didn't just "appear" on the scene. If you've read any of the other posts here recently .... it's obvious that some have many questions about this case. I'm intrigued by this video, because these people are asking EXACTLY the questions I've always asked.

As I said before, I would like to see the mainstream media take an interest in this.

JMO


Thank you for replying. I have literally read nothing about this case. The only reason I know anything about it at all is because I was in the States when the case first broke and it was all over the news. I thought it had been solved.

[fairmaiden]

Reportedly, Oprah fired Dr. Phil but he begged forgiveness and he is more or less on probation. It seems reasonable that Oprah might want to speak with people Dr. Phil has backed. I think in some eyes, being on Oprah, Beth's credibility was raised which has to help Dr. Phil.

I think the timing is interesting with the case becoming cold. Dave gets attention with the search, Joran gets attentiion throwing wine and Beth comes out for an interview. Meanwhile, it is very quiet in the Kalpoe camp. What if they got a settlement while others were in the spotlight?

What bothers me, I have so many questions and may never get an answer. But then, Daniel Young and Kelly Castillo give me a glimmer of hope. Some say Aruba has gone to a new low. Others say they raise some interesting questions. Either way, it is NEW, not like the hopes we were teased with by Hans Mos and his proof Natalee was dead which never came forth.

What I like about Daniel and Castillo, is they say it like it is. No hair blowing in the wind, no hedging, no feeling, just stating the facts as they believe them to be. If they are wrong, easy enough to prove.


IMO

Your last paragraph is a great point, Luke ((although their hair IS blowing in the wind .... I think everyone's does down there .... lol)). I know I keep repeating it, but they talked about things I've had questions about from the beginning .... ALL of which can be easily proven wrong, if it indeed is.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

I really think many in the media were actually afraid they would be perceived as cruel if they asked a grieving mother tough questions.

I think ALE and the Aruban prosecutor had the same fear. If Aruba had taken a firmer stance, perhaps the media would have also.

I also believe the media was more concerned about lawsuits that might be brought by American citizens than by Arubans.

I believe the media didn't believe the suspects would find it easy to get legal representation in the U.S.

If Beth hadn't brought her bogus lawsuits, and forced the van der Sloots into a defensive position, the Arubans might not have found the legal representation they now have.

I think you could be absolutely right about that Grandad .... especially in the beginning. Beth WAS being portrayed as "the grieving mother". However, as time went on .... more questions needed to be answered.

JMO

[Grandad]

Their eyes didn't even roll back to see the whites!! While a camera happened to be around!!

You know I think this little flap with Britney is turning into an avalanche against Phil, according to MSNBC this am, turns out that Phil is not even a registered psychologist or psychiatrist....got himself a phD somewhere along the line but forgot to pass the licensing tests. So here he goes at the invitation of the family to interview Britney, the family thinking he is a psychologist. Then he goes out and tells all....

You'd think Oprah would be holding her nose. I agree that there was absolutely no need to crucify Beth, but Oprah seemed to be quite standoffish, almost as though she had to do the interview so let's get it over with.

IMO

I don't watch Phil McGraw, but I was in a doctor's waiting room yesterday and I saw part of that show.

What he said was that he was licensed in Texas, but he retired that license because he's now a resident of California, and he has no plans to go back into private practice, so he hasn't applied for a California license. He also said since he has a PhD he has the right to use the title "doctor".

[fairmaiden]

Thank you for replying. I have literally read nothing about this case. The only reason I know anything about it at all is because I was in the States when the case first broke and it was all over the news. I thought it had been solved.

No, Jayelles .... It hasn't been solved. In fact, a few short weeks ago, Joran and the Kalpoe Brothers ((who had been arrested for the THIRD time)), were released from custody, with a statement from the Judge, stating their was no evidence/indication of any violent crime.

ETA .... I should add, the case has been "closed". Of course, if credible evidence does appear, then it could certainly be re-opened.

JMO

[Jayelles]

No, Jayelles .... It hasn't been solved. In fact, a few short weeks ago, Joran and the Kalpoe Brothers ((who had been arrested for the THIRD time)), were released from custody, with a statement from the Judge, stating their was no evidence/indication of any violent crime.

ETA .... I should add, the case has been "closed". Of course, if credible evidence does appear, then it could certainly be re-opened.

JMO


Thank you for replying. What's the general feeling about Joran and the brothers? Do people think they are involved or not?

Sorry for the questions - it's just that the video intrigued me!

[ortiga]

I don't watch Phil McGraw, but I was in a doctor's waiting room yesterday and I saw part of that show.

What he said was that he was licensed in Texas, but he retired that license because he's now a resident of California, and he has no plans to go back into private practice, so he hasn't applied for a California license. He also said since he has a PhD he has the right to use the title "doctor".

I agree that he does have the right to use the word doctor, all PhDs do. No plans for "private practice", instead, lol, it's "public practice".

There should be a disclaimer at the beginning of the program that would point out that he has a such and such degree, but is not licensed to practice any type of medicine or psychology, anywhere. Anything less than that is simply pulling the wool over the eyes, and Oprah is to blame as much as anyone else for allowing it to continue under her domain. I think the role he played with Beth.....promoting the theory (after all he had "credible evidence", and she had the phone call from Natalee that she verified based on her experience in "utterances" as a "speech pathologist") that Natalee was taken by the sex slave trade.......that whole bizarre sweeps week bonanza was nearly criminal, IMO. But that's aside from his charade that he is a "doctor". I think that was one of the times he put on his "international crime investigator" pointy hat. Really, "buffoon" is his only fitting title.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Your last paragraph is a great point, Luke ((although their hair IS blowing in the wind .... I think everyone's does down there .... lol)). I know I keep repeating it, but they talked about things I've had questions about from the beginning .... ALL of which can be easily proven wrong, if it indeed is.

JMOHi fairmaiden. Yes, they named some names and showed a document. Will the people they named be interviewed?

One thing that bothers me about this case is how Beth, Dave and some others rarely name names. It's always "chaperone" rather than Paul Lilly. Two friends, a patrolman, a casino worker, two policemen, a girl, etc. Over time some names have come out but others I still don't know.

This story might be less believeable had Beth not appeared on the show with Carla Baron. And there were rumors that Dave contacted psychics about the case. The real irony would be watching Beth and Jug give a check to Kelly and Daniel.

:hat:


IMO

[Luke Davis]

I agree that he does have the right to use the word doctor, all PhDs do. No plans for "private practice", instead, lol, it's "public practice".

There should be a disclaimer at the beginning of the program that would point out that he has a such and such degree, but is not licensed to practice any type of medicine or psychology, anywhere. Anything less than that is simply pulling the wool over the eyes, and Oprah is to blame as much as anyone else for allowing it to continue under her domain. I think the role he played with Beth.....promoting the theory (after all he had "credible evidence", and she had the phone call from Natalee that she verified based on her experience in "utterances" as a "speech pathologist") that Natalee was taken by the sex slave trade.......that whole bizarre sweeps week bonanza was nearly criminal, IMO. But that's aside from his charade that he is a "doctor". I think that was one of the times he put on his "international crime investigator" pointy hat. Really, "buffoon" is his only fitting title.

IMO

I think Dr. Laura has had the same complaints.

[terrysdoor]

Your last paragraph is a great point, Luke ((although their hair IS blowing in the wind .... I think everyone's does down there .... lol)). I know I keep repeating it, but they talked about things I've had questions about from the beginning .... ALL of which can be easily proven wrong, if it indeed is.

JMO

Hi Fair the most interesting thing i found in the inter view is Beth`s arrival time in Aruba that should be able to be cleared up by the people an the plane would they all not have to go thru the same paper work IMO

[fairmaiden]

Thank you for replying. What's the general feeling about Joran and the brothers? Do people think they are involved or not?

Sorry for the questions - it's just that the video intrigued me!

Jayelles .... That's difficult to answer. I think it depends on who is posting. Some think they Kidnapped, raped, and murdered Natalee . Some think they might be involved, but didn't harm Natalee. Others think ((and I count myself in this category)), that Joran and the brothers don't know what happened to Natalee, after Joran left her on the beach.

Personally, I don't know how anyone can just accept what Beth has to say, or what she writes in her book, without asking any questions. I can remember Beth appearing on some television shows, and someone asking her a question, which she might have difficulty answring. Beth would invariably say, in a case like that .... "It's not relevant". I think, if I was the interviewer, I would have prodded her for an answer.

There are just so many unanswered questions for me. I just can't accept that Natalee was kidnapped, raped and murdered, on Beth's say so.

JMO

[Grandad]

<snip>

And there were rumors that Dave contacted psychics about the case. The real irony would be watching Beth and Jug give a check to Kelly and Daniel.

IMO

I don't remember her name, but the first psychic we heard about was the one who claimed Natalee contacted her, but she had to ask Natalee to come back later because she needed her sleep.

Dave took this woman to Aruba and tried to get her into a visit he thought he could arrange with Joran while he was in jail.

He was denied access to Joran, but met Paulus outside the jail and gave him a Bible and another religious book to give to Joran.

[fairmaiden]

I agree that he does have the right to use the word doctor, all PhDs do. No plans for "private practice", instead, lol, it's "public practice".

There should be a disclaimer at the beginning of the program that would point out that he has a such and such degree, but is not licensed to practice any type of medicine or psychology, anywhere. Anything less than that is simply pulling the wool over the eyes, and Oprah is to blame as much as anyone else for allowing it to continue under her domain. I think the role he played with Beth.....promoting the theory (after all he had "credible evidence", and she had the phone call from Natalee that she verified based on her experience in "utterances" as a "speech pathologist") that Natalee was taken by the sex slave trade.......that whole bizarre sweeps week bonanza was nearly criminal, IMO. But that's aside from his charade that he is a "doctor". I think that was one of the times he put on his "international crime investigator" pointy hat. Really, "buffoon" is his only fitting title.

IMO

ortiga .... GREAT description of what Phil McGraw has done in this case .... "nearly criminal". After all, he may have intentionally manipulated Deepak's statements when interviewed by Skeeter ((although, I'm sure he didn't PERSONALLY do that .... just ask someone ELSE to do it)). I have no doubt, what he aired on Dr. Phil show WAS altered .

JMO

[Grandad]

Hi Fair the most interesting thing i found in the inter view is Beth`s arrival time in Aruba that should be able to be cleared up by the people an the plane would they all not have to go thru the same paper work IMO


Castillo and Young showed a document the claim is an official Aruban immigration form which establishes Beth's arrival at about 7:45, not 11:00.

I would imagine forging any government document would be a big no n o.

Add to that they're willing to name sources, such as Carol Standifer, and they don't seem to be concerned about "Jugs" suing them. They're complete wackos, or have something of substance which should be investigated.

[Luke Davis]

Jayelles .... That's difficult to answer. I think it depends on who is posting. Some think they Kidnapped, raped, and murdered Natalee . Some think they might be involved, but didn't harm Natalee. Others think ((and I count myself in this category)), that Joran and the brothers don't know what happened to Natalee, after Joran left her on the beach.

Personally, I don't know how anyone can just accept what Beth has to say, or what she writes in her book, without asking any questions. I can remember Beth appearing on some television shows, and someone asking her a question, which she might have difficulty answring. Beth would invariably say, in a case like that .... "It's not relevant". I think, if I was the interviewer, I would have prodded her for an answer.

There are just so many unanswered questions for me. I just can't accept that Natalee was kidnapped, raped and murdered, on Beth's say so.

JMO

Well said fairmaiden. One that has always bothered me, was Nancy Grace asking about the DEA agent and Beth saying, that's a story for another day. I wonder when that day will come?

[Jayelles]

Jayelles .... That's difficult to answer. I think it depends on who is posting. Some think they Kidnapped, raped, and murdered Natalee . Some think they might be involved, but didn't harm Natalee. Others think ((and I count myself in this category)), that Joran and the brothers don't know what happened to Natalee, after Joran left her on the beach.

Personally, I don't know how anyone can just accept what Beth has to say, or what she writes in her book, without asking any questions. I can remember Beth appearing on some television shows, and someone asking her a question, which she might have difficulty answring. Beth would invariably say, in a case like that .... "It's not relevant". I think, if I was the interviewer, I would have prodded her for an answer.

There are just so many unanswered questions for me. I just can't accept that Natalee was kidnapped, raped and murdered, on Beth's say so.

JMO


Thank you. I get the picture. What about the pregnancy and abuse and drug taking? Does that seem feasible/likely?

[ortiga]

Castillo and Young showed a document the claim is an official Aruban immigration form which establishes Beth's arrival at about 7:45, not 11:00.

I would imagine forging any government document would be a big no n o.

Add to that they're willing to name sources, such as Carol Standifer, and they don't seem to be concerned about "Jugs" suing them. They're complete wackos, or have something of substance which should be investigated.

Basicaly it says to me that she heard of Natalee's failure to get on the plane at least 3 hours earlier than she claims. Which I think we all suspected anyway, at least that much earlier.

[ortiga]

ortiga .... GREAT description of what Phil McGraw has done in this case .... "nearly criminal". After all, he may have intentionally manipulated Deepak's statements when interviewed by Skeeter ((although, I'm sure he didn't PERSONALLY do that .... just ask someone ELSE to do it)). I have no doubt, what he aired on Dr. Phil show WAS altered .

JMO

lol I forgot to even mention the whole thing with Deepak, either Skeeter of the "doctor" show changing his words so that Twitty could snarl "gang rape". (The only thing she knew for sure is that Natalee was kidnapped and gangraped....she just doesn't know what they did with her when they were through with her).

Hmmm.....maybe "doctor" is the right title for him after all!

IMO

[ortiga]

Well said fairmaiden. One that has always bothered me, was Nancy Grace asking about the DEA agent and Beth saying, that's a story for another day. I wonder when that day will come?

Didn't Beth already "out" the guy by name?

[Luke Davis]

Didn't Beth already "out" the guy by name?Yes, (Eric Williams) but I never really understood how he got involved.

:shrug:

---B. TWITTY: You know, we acted with such a sense of urgency. The first thing that I wanted to do with Eric Williams (ph), the DEA, was establish Natalee`s character, so they would see that this is not a missing girl, this is not someone who has just decided not to show up or is having an extended stay on her senior trip.

[Grandad]

Yes, (Eric Williams) but I never really understood how he got involved.

:shrug:


He was supposedly at the HI on vacation, and overheard Paul Lilly talking to hotel security about Natalee.

He supposedly got involved as a concerned American who was familiar with the island, not as government employee.

[Luke Davis]

He was supposedly at the HI on vacation, and overheard Paul Lilly talking to hotel security about Natalee.

He supposedly got involved as a concerned American who was familiar with the island, not as government employee.
I just can't see how I could use a complete stranger to establish my daughter's character. I would think Paul Lilly or Haleigh Uncapher would have been better for establishing Natalee's reputation.

[Grandad]

I just can't see how I could use a complete stranger to establish my daughter's character. I would think Paul Lilly or Haleigh Uncapher would have been better for establishing Natalee's reputation.


I don't remember Beth ever having said Williams had anything to do with helping her establoish Natalee's reputation.

I do believe he accompanied the posse to the van der Sloot residence, but I thought he was just acting more or less as a guide.

If he had been there as a DEA agent, Bearman wouldn't have had to misrepresent herself as an FBI agent.

[fairmaiden]

Thank you. I get the picture. What about the pregnancy and abuse and drug taking? Does that seem feasible/likely?

You're welcome, Jayelles. I think I mentioned in one of my posts .... most of the things mentioned by them .... the alleged sexual abuse .... her pregnancy .... her dying from an overdose .... her being seen AFTER being with Joran ((to name a few)), have been mentioned before.

What was one of the strangest things to me, was Beth's insistence on "establishing Natalee's character" to ALE in the very beginning. When she did that, she made it clear her daughter was a virgin .... didn't drink .... definitely would not leave a bar with strangers, etc. If your daughter is missing, and YOU fear she is kidnapped, what possible difference does it make to "establish her character". If ALE took that seriously, they might have been looking in CHURCH for Natalee. As statements from her friends became known, it was obviously Natalee WAS drinking. I don't know about the "drug-taking", but that wouldn't surprise me at all. Unlike some, I don't believe Natalee was the epitome of "perfection". I think she was having fun, out of the watchful eyes of her parents. The problem when discussing this is, when you DO .... you are immediately labeled as "bashing Natalee", which is just not the case at all.

It's my belief Natalee didn't want to return home, for WHATEVER reason.

Jayelles .... I think ANYTHING is possible when it comes to the things you mention. People tend not to TALK about sexual abuse to anyone .... especially other members of their family.

For me to think that Beth sent her daughter on an "all-inclusive" trip to Aruba, and think she was NOT going to drink, just does not make sense.

This is just my opinion Jayelles.

[fairmaiden]

Basicaly it says to me that she heard of Natalee's failure to get on the plane at least 3 hours earlier than she claims. Which I think we all suspected anyway, at least that much earlier.

Yes, ortiga .... because I believe she was in contact with Natalee on Aruba.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Yes, (Eric Williams) but I never really understood how he got involved.

:shrug:

Oh .... I just mentioned this to Jayelles, Luke. One of the strangest things Beth did .... feel the need to "establish Natalee's character" .... like it made a difference.

JMO

[ortiga]

Yes, ortiga .... because I believe she was in contact with Natalee on Aruba.

JMO


101% ditto

[Luke Davis]

I don't remember Beth ever having said Williams had anything to do with helping her establoish Natalee's reputation.

I do believe he accompanied the posse to the van der Sloot residence, but I thought he was just acting more or less as a guide.

If he had been there as a DEA agent, Bearman wouldn't have had to misrepresent herself as an FBI agent.

B. TWITTY: Well, we were met by the DEA Eric Williams (ph) and Paul Lilly (ph).

GRACE: DEA?

B. TWITTY: Yes, there was a DEA on island, Eric Williams (ph) -- that`s another story, Nancy. But, anyway, they met us there at the Holiday Inn lobby because Paul Lilly (ph) had had such a horrific time on that Monday, the 30th, just trying to get help. He had been speaking with the beach patrol, visibility team, no one seemed to know -- talk about the right hand and left hand -- no one knew how to guide him or help him begin.

GRACE: Who is Eric Lilly (ph)?

B. TWITTY: Paul Lilly (ph). He`s the chaperone for the --

GRACE: All right. So he`s frantically trying to find Natalee and get help and nobody can even say this is the first thing to do.

B. TWITTY: Yes, yes. He was working -- he was trying so desperately to find someone to help him.

GRACE: So what time did you get to the Holiday Inn?

B. TWITTY: Probably about 11:00 p.m. on the 30th.

GRACE: And what happened when you got there?

B. TWITTY: You know, we acted with such a sense of urgency. The first thing that I wanted to do with Eric Williams (ph), the DEA, was establish Natalee`s character, so they would see that this is not a missing girl, this is not someone who has just decided not to show up or is having an extended stay on her senior trip.

And, you know, I felt the best thing I could do was establish Natalee`s character, so that they could see a sense of urgency had to be --


Nancy Grace (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/03/ng.01.html)

[Grandad]

Nancy Grace (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/03/ng.01.html)

I take that to mean Beth was trying to convince Williams of Natalee's character, not asking Williams to vouch for it.

[Luke Davis]

Oh .... I just mentioned this to Jayelles, Luke. One of the strangest things Beth did .... feel the need to "establish Natalee's character" .... like it made a difference.

JMOWell, if Natalee is a virgin, then she couldn't be pregnant.

:hat:

[Luke Davis]

I take that to mean Beth was trying to convince Williams of Natalee's character, not asking Williams to vouch for it.
I don't know why Beth would want to do that. That's why I wonder if there is more to the story.

[ortiga]

I don't know why Beth would want to do that. That's why I wonder if there is more to the story.

More to the story? hmm. That's an understatement. :)

[Heyes]

written in '05' yet still holds true

I thank my lucky stars I am not Beth Twitty and do not read the ridiculous theories that bob up and down in here like a cork trying desperately to find its place in the open sea of reality

continue reading here.
http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/05dec/article088.htm


BOYCOTT ARUBA!

[Luke Davis]

written in '05' yet still holds true

I thank my lucky stars I am not Beth Twitty and do not read the ridiculous theories that bob up and down in here like a cork trying desperately to find its place in the open sea of reality

continue reading here.
http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/05dec/article088.htm


BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Interesting that someone with a strong faith in God relies on psychics and mediums and supporters thank their lucky stars and hope Karma will strike.

I am constantly confused by the salad bowl of religious and super natural pleas. Understandable in the beginning but Beth has been on her journey for over two years and still shows confusion.

IMO

[Heyes]

Interesting that someone with a strong faith in God relies on psychics and mediums and supporters thank their lucky stars and hope Karma will strike.

I am constantly confused by the salad bowl of religious and super natural pleas. Understandable in the beginning but Beth has been on her journey for over two years and still shows confusion.

IMO
And I am constantly confused how anyone can sit in judgement of a mother that has no idea where her daughter is. Maybe if your child was "missing" you could understand Beth's or any other mother's desire to find any answers no matter what form they may come in.
The lack of compassion is mindboggling.
After being told by every law official on aruba that this is a murder case. After being told they have the perps just not enough evidence. After hearing from jail officials that joran has violent tendencies. After all the lies. And you wonder how she can be confused? WOW!
joran proves day after day that he has some serious anger problems. but yeah blame the mom. :rolleyes:

IMO

BOYCOTT ARUBA!

[ortiga]

And I am constantly confused how anyone can sit in judgement of a mother that has no idea where her daughter is. Maybe if your child was "missing" you could understand Beth's or any other mother's desire to find any answers no matter what form they may come in.
The lack of compassion is mindboggling.
After being told by every law official on aruba that this is a murder case. After being told they have the perps just not enough evidence. After hearing from jail officials that joran has violent tendencies. After all the lies. And you wonder how she can be confused? WOW!
joran proves day after day that he has some serious anger problems. but yeah blame the mom. :rolleyes:

IMO

BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Please do list "every law official on Aruba" that said "this was a murder case".

TIA

And then please do list where anyone on the board ever suggested that the mother murdered Natalee.

Whether or not a mother loses a child, that mother has no right to sit in judgement of the children of other mothers, when those children have never been accused of a crime, and where no crime has ever been proven to have occurred.

[Heyes]

More from the article linked above!




Natalee Holloway is finally happy that she ditched her obsessive mom and is hiding out somewhere because she orchestrated her kidnapping and murder to fool all of us into feeling sorry for her and donating millions to her cause. LAUGHABLE. Natalee actually left the beach after she had her seventeenth sexual act of the day concluding with innocent Joran and met her boyfriend later in the room where they had oral sex and brushed their teeth together afterwards. LAUGHABLE. Beth Twitty is not a mom who is genuinely concerned and grieving over the loss of her daughter; but, instead is a marketing machine raising more money than our national debt to mock all of us as she secretly consorts with the Mafia in Philly and Dr. Phil in Burbank to keep the lie alive. LAUGHABLE. (I am actually laughing right now at all these ridiculous assumptions that have been foisted upon us!) Joran Van der Sloot has been unjustly accused of doing anything wrong, much less being the rapist and murderer of Natalee Holloway. LAUGHABLE. The island of Aruba is truly the safe haven it purports itself to be and young people will always be sexually protected there wherever they go. LAUGHABLE. Natalee was a ***** hound who possessed little character and sexually manipulated every man who encountered her that week. LAUGHABLE. Anyone can write anything they want about the lack of integrity of a missing girl, her mother, her father, her stepfather, her brother and her friends in order to try to con all of us into thinking that the actions and words of three boys and a father were actually noble and forthright in their statements to police after said girl abruptly vanished after being in their company. LAUGHABLE. The investigation of the Aruban authorities and the machinations of the Dutch government were effective in uncovering what really happened the night Natalee disappeared. LAUGHABLE. The, "what is wrong with telling everyone that I left Natalee on the beach and there is no more to the story here!" excuse from Joran Van der Sloot. LAUGHABLE.

It is indeed LAUGHABLE!
So a message to the aruba tourism . Bashing the victim and her mom will drive more tourists away. Crawl out of the mud and man up.

IMO

you would think someone in aruba would be embarrassed that these so called humans are blaming the victim.
aruba seems to be a couple of hundred years behind the times. so be it.

IMO

[ortiga]

written in '05' yet still holds true

I thank my lucky stars I am not Beth Twitty and do not read the ridiculous theories that bob up and down in here like a cork trying desperately to find its place in the open sea of reality

continue reading here.
http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/05dec/article088.htm


BOYCOTT ARUBA!


Beth Twitty had a hand in pushing some of the most ridiculous theories ever proposed in this case

1) that Natalee was being held as a sex slave (she knew the sound of Natalee's voice on the phone)

2) Deepak said, on the "doctored" tape that they "gangraped" Natalee. That is what Beth said, which we all know was a lie, Deepak never said anything of the kind.

The mystery remains, and is so very troubling, why she wanted so desperately to have the "world" think that her daughter was being held as a sex slave, and why she wanted the world to think that her daughter was gangraped. Both of those scenarios were never even hinted to have occurred, except by Beth and her minions such as Phil.

I think overall, after the disappearance, Beth was exceedingly mean to Natalee, calling her passive aggressive, saying that she had been gangraped and killed, saying at least 3 times in her book that she herself had lectured Natalee on being careful in Aruba. But insinuating that it's all Natalee's fault because she didn't listen to her mother. Read the book, it's all in there.

:read:

IMO

[ortiga]

Interesting that someone with a strong faith in God relies on psychics and mediums and supporters thank their lucky stars and hope Karma will strike.

I am constantly confused by the salad bowl of religious and super natural pleas. Understandable in the beginning but Beth has been on her journey for over two years and still shows confusion.

IMO

The way she continally refers to her "journey" gives me the creeps.

IMO

[Heyes]

Please do list "every law official on Aruba" that said "this was a murder case".

TIA

And then please do list where anyone on the board ever suggested that the mother murdered Natalee.

Whether or not a mother loses a child, that mother has no right to sit in judgement of the children of other mothers, when those children have never been accused of a crime, and where no crime has ever been proven to have occurred.


like it or not joran has been judged, His bad behavior, lies and attitude is the reason so many feel that he is a bad seed and did something to poor Natalee. His mother has been judged. His lastest temper tantrum has been judged. His mother looks foolish. He was voted the biggest LOOSER on the Dan Abrams program just the other night. Sorry!
by the by joran was accused of a crime. duh.
proven? No, your right and that's because of the bumbling ALE that couldn't solve a dog napping let alone a murder by their local problem child.
Poor anita should just give up and sit down. Her son sabotages her every time she tries to make him look like a golden child.
Maybe now she can start to pull out of the denial she has been in.
Or.... will she wait until joran hurts or kills someone elses child?
Which will it be?

Tic, tic, tic, the joran bomb will go off again. who will be the next victim?
IMO

[Heyes]

Beth Twitty had a hand in pushing some of the most ridiculous theories ever proposed in this case

1) that Natalee was being held as a sex slave (she knew the sound of Natalee's voice on the phone)

2) Deepak said, on the "doctored" tape that they "gangraped" Natalee. That is what Beth said, which we all know was a lie, Deepak never said anything of the kind.

The mystery remains, and is so very troubling, why she wanted so desperately to have the "world" think that her daughter was being held as a sex slave, and why she wanted the world to think that her daughter was gangraped. Both of those scenarios were never even hinted to have occurred, except by Beth and her minions such as Phil.

I think overall, after the disappearance, Beth was exceedingly mean to Natalee, calling her passive aggressive, saying that she had been gangraped and killed, saying at least 3 times in her book that she herself had lectured Natalee on being careful in Aruba. But insinuating that it's all Natalee's fault because she didn't listen to her mother. Read the book, it's all in there.

:read:

IMO


I disagree.
When did the trial happen? When was it proven that deepak didn't say these things? I happen to think deepak did say those things. In fact Mr. Skeeters record is crystal! How is deepaks? lol

Read the book. she doesn't blame Natalee. Other than a handful of aruba supporters and 1 or 2 women that have a crush on joran, the blame is on the three lying men that left with Natalee and then lied about it.
Many of us believe paulus is involved up to his sweaty brow.
Either way, this is joran vandersloots legacy. anita must be proud of her nasty tempered, out of control sporter.

IMO

[ortiga]

And I am constantly confused how anyone can sit in judgement of a mother that has no idea where her daughter is. Maybe if your child was "missing" you could understand Beth's or any other mother's desire to find any answers no matter what form they may come in.
The lack of compassion is mindboggling.
After being told by every law official on aruba that this is a murder case. After being told they have the perps just not enough evidence. After hearing from jail officials that joran has violent tendencies. After all the lies. And you wonder how she can be confused? WOW!
joran proves day after day that he has some serious anger problems. but yeah blame the mom. :rolleyes:

IMO

BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Please do list "every law official on Aruba" that said "this was a murder case". TIA

And then please do list where anyone on the board ever suggested that the mother murdered Natalee.

Whether or not a mother loses a child, that mother has no right to sit in judgement of the children of other mothers, when those children have never been accused of a crime, and where no crime has ever been proven to have occurred.

like it or not joran has been judged, His bad behavior, lies and attitude is the reason so many feel that he is a bad seed and did something to poor Natalee. His mother has been judged. His lastest temper tantrum has been judged. His mother looks foolish. He was voted the biggest LOOSER on the Dan Abrams program just the other night. Sorry!
by the by joran was accused of a crime. duh.
proven? No, your right and that's because of the bumbling ALE that couldn't solve a dog napping let alone a murder by their local problem child.
Poor anita should just give up and sit down. Her son sabotages her every time she tries to make him look like a golden child.
Maybe now she can start to pull out of the denial she has been in.
Or.... will she wait until joran hurts or kills someone elses child?
Which will it be?

Tic, tic, tic, the joran bomb will go off again. who will be the next victim?
IMO

So, you do admit that you were wrong when you said that Beth was told by "every law official on Aruba that this was a murder case"??

[ortiga]

I disagree.
When did the trial happen? When was it proven that deepak didn't say these things? I happen to think deepak did say those things. In fact Mr. Skeeters record is crystal! How is deepaks? lol

Read the book. she doesn't blame Natalee. Other than a handful of aruba supporters and 1 or 2 women that have a crush on joran, the blame is on the three lying men that left with Natalee and then lied about it.
Many of us believe paulus is involved up to his sweaty brow.
Either way, this is joran vandersloots legacy. anita must be proud of her nasty tempered, out of control sporter.

IMO

:read: Whether or not you think the Skeeter/Phil tape was altered, at no time did anyone ever say that Deepak said he and the others "gangraped" Natalee. Except Beth Twitty who made that up.

The Skeeter Phil tape was manipulated to say that Natalee had sex with them, not that she was gangraped. I will never know how Beth Twitty could have gotten up there on TV to support the idea that her daughter had sex with 3 boys. What a horrible thing to insinuate about your own daughter.

IMO

[fairmaiden]

:read: Whether or not you think the Skeeter/Phil tape was altered, at no time did anyone ever say that Deepak said he and the others "gangraped" Natalee. Except Beth Twitty who made that up.

The Skeeter Phil tape was manipulated to say that Natalee had sex with them, not that she was gangraped. I will never know how Beth Twitty could have gotten up there on TV to support the idea that her daughter had sex with 3 boys. What a horrible thing to insinuate about your own daughter.

IMO

You are so right, ortiga. Jamie Skeeter never uttered the word "rape", or "gangrape" at all. IIRC, his question to Deepak was .... "I believe she had sex with all of you ??". You're correct .... from THAT Beth has said many times Deepak Kalpoe has admitted on international television to RAPING Natalee.

It kept these coffers full though ....

JMO

[Heyes]

So, you do admit that you were wrong when you said that Beth was told by "every law official on Aruba that this was a murder case"??

What suspicions were j2k held on?????
Oh yeah
kidnapping, rape and murder.


I think that sums up the thought process on aruba regarding j2k2.
murder suspects.... not only the victims mother but anyone following the case knew the aruba authorities were looking at this disappearance as a murder.

It was a murder case until paulus's buddy, Judge, ( and I use that term lightly), rick smid decided to let the suspects walk.
Unbelievable...
smid was according to the research, the same judge that gave the vandersloots the pass on the home search. corrupt? I belive so.

Someone should really tell joran that his new look isn't working for him. lmao!
BOYCOTT ARUBA! :chicken:

IMO

[Luke Davis]

I disagree.
When did the trial happen? When was it proven that deepak didn't say these things? I happen to think deepak did say those things. In fact Mr. Skeeters record is crystal! How is deepaks? lol

Read the book. she doesn't blame Natalee. Other than a handful of aruba supporters and 1 or 2 women that have a crush on joran, the blame is on the three lying men that left with Natalee and then lied about it.
Many of us believe paulus is involved up to his sweaty brow.
Either way, this is joran vandersloots legacy. anita must be proud of her nasty tempered, out of control sporter.

IMO

I wish there would be a trial but I doubt it. Dr. Phil is better off giving the Kalpoes a few million and have them quietly go away. The quiet from the case is very telling.


IMO:patriot:

[Heyes]

:read: Whether or not you think the Skeeter/Phil tape was altered, at no time did anyone ever say that Deepak said he and the others "gangraped" Natalee. Except Beth Twitty who made that up.

The Skeeter Phil tape was manipulated to say that Natalee had sex with them, not that she was gangraped. I will never know how Beth Twitty could have gotten up there on TV to support the idea that her daughter had sex with 3 boys. What a horrible thing to insinuate about your own daughter.

IMO

proof that Mr. Skeeter changed the meaning of deepaks words.?????? please.
Since Natalee was going in and out of conciousness or in jorans mind, asleep then awake, and they all sex with her. That is a gangrape.
It's a crime that happens all over the world.
Slip something in the victims drink. once she is unable to defend herself a goup of guys have their way. simple.
after oh say about 20 times one of their victims died. Enter paulus.
What a horrible thing to do to a decent, innocent, sweet young lady.

If joran can't control himself with adults on national television with his mommy and daddy sitting right there, can you imagine what he did to Natalee? [[[[shiver]]]]]

IMO

Whose child is next?
BOYCOTT ARUBA!

[ortiga]

I wish there would be a trial but I doubt it. Dr. Phil is better off giving the Kalpoes a few million and have them quietly go away. The quiet from the case is very telling.


IMO:patriot:

Although I haven't hot tailed it down to my supermarket check out line yet, I hear that the NE has Oprah ragging on Phil.

[Heyes]

I wish there would be a trial but I doubt it. Dr. Phil is better off giving the Kalpoes a few million and have them quietly go away. The quiet from the case is very telling.


IMO:patriot:

Telling? how so?
When was the last time you've seen day by day reporting of a civil case that hasn't gone to trial yet?
who is paying for all the kalpoe attorney's?
Doesn't that in itself seem strange?


BOYCOTT ARUBA!

[ortiga]

What suspicions were j2k held on?????
Oh yeah
kidnapping, rape and murder.


I think that sums up the thought process on aruba regarding j2k2.
murder suspects.... not only the victims mother but anyone following the case knew the aruba authorities were looking at this disappearance as a murder.

It was a murder case until paulus's buddy, Judge, ( and I use that term lightly), rick smid decided to let the suspects walk.
Unbelievable...
smid was according to the research, the same judge that gave the vandersloots the pass on the home search. corrupt? I belive so.

Someone should really tell joran that his new look isn't working for him. lmao!
BOYCOTT ARUBA! :chicken:

IMO

Since after 2.5 years you still haven't exhibited any hint on this board that you understand how the Aruban system works, I'm not going to try to explain it to you.

Feel free to post the proof that Beth was:

"told by every law official on aruba that this is a murder case"

[fairmaiden]

proof that Mr. Skeeter changed the meaning of deepaks words.?????? please.
Since Natalee was going in and out of conciousness or in jorans mind, asleep then awake, and they all sex with her. That is a gangrape.
It's a crime that happens all over the world.
Slip something in the victims drink. once she is unable to defend herself a goup of guys have their way. simple.
after oh say about 20 times one of their victims died. Enter paulus.
What a horrible thing to do to a decent, innocent, sweet young lady.

If joran can't control himself with adults on national television with his mommy and daddy sitting right there, can you imagine what he did to Natalee? [[[[shiver]]]]]

IMO

Whose child is next?
BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Heyes .... It's difficult to respond to your posts .... they are PURE speculation. No matter how YOU feel about this Judge, he made it perfectly clear there was no evidence or indication of any violent crime. The problem you seem to have is, you just don't want to listen/discuss anything else. I'm actually thankful I'm not in that category, because I can say .... IF any credible evidence is found that Joran et al HARMED Natalee, they should be punished. I believe there are people who are looking for the truth here .... not necessarily Beth's truth, however ....

JMO

[ortiga]

snipped

If joran can't control himself with adults on national television with his mommy and daddy sitting right there, can you imagine what he did to Natalee? [[[[shiver]]]]]

IMO

Whose child is next?
BOYCOTT ARUBA!

That was quite a horrifying, shiver-producing act that Joran pulled off on De Vries. Is it your opinion that he killed Natalee by throwing a glass of wine at her?

[fairmaiden]

Telling? how so?
When was the last time you've seen day by day reporting of a civil case that hasn't gone to trial yet?
who is paying for all the kalpoe attorney's?
Doesn't that in itself seem strange?


BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Actually Heyes .... That doesn't seem strange to me at all. Surely you've heard of civil lawyers working for their client on a "contingency" basis .... haven't you??

JMO

[Luke Davis]

You are so right, ortiga. Jamie Skeeter never uttered the word "rape", or "gangrape" at all. IIRC, his question to Deepak was .... "I believe she had sex with all of you ??". You're correct .... from THAT Beth has said many times Deepak Kalpoe has admitted on international television to RAPING Natalee.

It kept these coffers full though ....

JMO

Deepak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELxTwuoveLA&NR=1)

[Luke Davis]

proof that Mr. Skeeter changed the meaning of deepaks words.?????? please.
Since Natalee was going in and out of conciousness or in jorans mind, asleep then awake, and they all sex with her. That is a gangrape.
It's a crime that happens all over the world.
Slip something in the victims drink. once she is unable to defend herself a goup of guys have their way. simple.
after oh say about 20 times one of their victims died. Enter paulus.
What a horrible thing to do to a decent, innocent, sweet young lady.

If joran can't control himself with adults on national television with his mommy and daddy sitting right there, can you imagine what he did to Natalee? [[[[shiver]]]]]

IMO

Whose child is next?
BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Doesn't seem like they had enough time for all that.

[Luke Davis]

Although I haven't hot tailed it down to my supermarket check out line yet, I hear that the NE has Oprah ragging on Phil.I saw it while standing in line. The headline said Oprah fired him but he begged for forgiveness.


IMO

[Luke Davis]

Telling? how so?
When was the last time you've seen day by day reporting of a civil case that hasn't gone to trial yet?
who is paying for all the kalpoe attorney's?
Doesn't that in itself seem strange?


BOYCOTT ARUBA!

When information favors Beth, it gets publicity, when it doesn't all is quiet. When Dave and Beth filed lawsuits JQK was a genius, when they were dismissed, all was quiet.

With the Kalpoes, I think no news, is good news for them.:hat:

[ortiga]

When information favors Beth, it gets publicity, when it doesn't all is quiet. When Dave and Beth filed lawsuits JQK was a genius, when they were dismissed, all was quiet.

With the Kalpoes, I think no news, is good news for them.:hat:

I wonder what Beth will do next to get herself in the news.

[fairmaiden]

Deepak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELxTwuoveLA&NR=1)

Well, I listened very intently, Luke .... I still didn't hear Skeeter mention "rape" or "gangrape". Did I miss it ?? The question he asked was what I THOUGHT it was .... "I'm sure she had sex with all of you" .... which is not really a question .... more of a statement.

Now .... if one looks at what was said, in the Kalpoe Filing .... it is so obvious the whole context of what was said was altered. Certainly not just the "didn't" to a "did". He didn't originally say "You would be surprised how simple it was" after allegedly admitting to having sex with Natalee. The whole context was altered.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Well, I listened very intently, Luke .... I still didn't hear Skeeter mention "rape" or "gangrape". Did I miss it ?? The question he asked was what I THOUGHT it was .... "I'm sure she had sex with all of you" .... which is not really a question .... more of a statement.

Now .... if one looks at what was said, in the Kalpoe Filing .... it is so obvious the whole context of what was said was altered. Certainly not just the "didn't" to a "did". He didn't originally say "You would be surprised how simple it was" after allegedly admitting to having sex with Natalee. The whole context was altered.

JMO

I hope the jurors listen intently with an open mind, if it ever goes to court.

[HiLife]

written in '05' yet still holds true

I thank my lucky stars I am not Beth Twitty and do not read the ridiculous theories that bob up and down in here like a cork trying desperately to find its place in the open sea of reality
continue reading here.
http://www.useless-knowledge.com/1234/05dec/article088.htm


BOYCOTT ARUBA!

Darn, this link isn't working for me! What a perfect way to describe the ridiculous theories people keep trying to pass off!

[HiLife]

More from the article linked above!

Natalee Holloway is finally happy that she ditched her obsessive mom and is hiding out somewhere because she orchestrated her kidnapping and murder to fool all of us into feeling sorry for her and donating millions to her cause. LAUGHABLE. Natalee actually left the beach after she had her seventeenth sexual act of the day concluding with innocent Joran and met her boyfriend later in the room where they had oral sex and brushed their teeth together afterwards. LAUGHABLE. Beth Twitty is not a mom who is genuinely concerned and grieving over the loss of her daughter; but, instead is a marketing machine raising more money than our national debt to mock all of us as she secretly consorts with the Mafia in Philly and Dr. Phil in Burbank to keep the lie alive. LAUGHABLE. (I am actually laughing right now at all these ridiculous assumptions that have been foisted upon us!) Joran Van der Sloot has been unjustly accused of doing anything wrong, much less being the rapist and murderer of Natalee Holloway. LAUGHABLE. The island of Aruba is truly the safe haven it purports itself to be and young people will always be sexually protected there wherever they go. LAUGHABLE. Natalee was a ***** hound who possessed little character and sexually manipulated every man who encountered her that week. LAUGHABLE. Anyone can write anything they want about the lack of integrity of a missing girl, her mother, her father, her stepfather, her brother and her friends in order to try to con all of us into thinking that the actions and words of three boys and a father were actually noble and forthright in their statements to police after said girl abruptly vanished after being in their company. LAUGHABLE. The investigation of the Aruban authorities and the machinations of the Dutch government were effective in uncovering what really happened the night Natalee disappeared. LAUGHABLE. The, "what is wrong with telling everyone that I left Natalee on the beach and there is no more to the story here!" excuse from Joran Van der Sloot. LAUGHABLE.

It is indeed LAUGHABLE!
So a message to the aruba tourism . Bashing the victim and her mom will drive more tourists away.

Crawl out of the mud and man up.

IMO

you would think someone in aruba would be embarrassed that these so called humans are blaming the victim.
aruba seems to be a couple of hundred years behind the times. so be it.

IMO

This article is the bomb! All the laughable theories are so right on! Hard to believe people actually believe this....but we know all the above distortions are true.

Aruba just doesn't "get it."

"Crawl out of the mud and man up"................omg - bravo!


jmo

[Grandad]

I wonder what Beth will do next to get herself in the news.

She's going to say she just remembered her watch was broken when she first landed on Aruba.

[Heyes]

When information favors Beth, it gets publicity, when it doesn't all is quiet. When Dave and Beth filed lawsuits JQK was a genius, when they were dismissed, all was quiet.

With the Kalpoes, I think no news, is good news for them.:hat:

Now that's not what I remember. I can recall after the lawsuits were dismissed due to jurisdiction issues, Tacopino was all over the airwaves spouting jorans innocence.
I would love to see tacopinos version of how joran was justified to throw wine in a persons face. That would be entertaining.
I think even he has run away from the vandersloots, can't blame him if he wants to be taken seriously in a court of law. After making a fool of himself with his girlfriend...uh, cough, I mean his last client, he really should start making better decisions when it comes to who he will defend. That is if he wants to be the media darling he was trying so hard to be. LMAO!
IMO
joran manages to make his supporters look foolish every time!
It's quite a talent! lol
IMO

[Heyes]

Darn, this link isn't working for me! What a perfect way to describe the ridiculous theories people keep trying to pass off!

The lastest nonsense out of aruba is just one example of this silliness. No one is buying it. aruba and joran will carry this black mark for the rest of their days.
Even anita is speechless this time. I doubt she'll show her face on tv again for a long time. I think maybe she realized that she has failed as a mother and there is no "good sporter". It was only a myth. He is what he is.

I watched that wine-thowing video again. Paulus is grinning as he turns towards joran. Any questions as to where joran got his charm? lmao
IMO

[Grandad]

<snip>

I would love to see tacopinos version of how joran was justified to throw wine in a persons face.IMO
<snip>

Anyone who understands the definition of slander, or who has any inkling of what it means to be falsely accused of a crime, especially a crime which hasn't been proved even happened, agrees Joran was totally justified in showing his contempt and disdain for the wannabe crime investigator.

[Heyes]

<snip>

Anyone who understands the definition of slander, or who has any inkling of what it means to be falsely accused of a crime, especially a crime which hasn't been proved even happened, agrees Joran was totally justified in showing his contempt and disdain for the wannabe crime investigator.


Excuse #1
There ya go folks!

LMAO

[ortiga]

Excuse #1
There ya go folks!

LMAO

And DeVries excuse?

And Beth Twitty's excuse?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$

[Luke Davis]

Now that's not what I remember. I can recall after the lawsuits were dismissed due to jurisdiction issues, Tacopino was all over the airwaves spouting jorans innocence.
I would love to see tacopinos version of how joran was justified to throw wine in a persons face. That would be entertaining.
I think even he has run away from the vandersloots, can't blame him if he wants to be taken seriously in a court of law. After making a fool of himself with his girlfriend...uh, cough, I mean his last client, he really should start making better decisions when it comes to who he will defend. That is if he wants to be the media darling he was trying so hard to be. LMAO!
IMO
joran manages to make his supporters look foolish every time!
It's quite a talent! lol
IMO

Joe Tacopina explains the wine incident on YouTube if you want to see.

[Heyes]

And DeVries excuse?

And Beth Twitty's excuse?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$

Excuse for what????? they aren't throwing things at people.
:shrug:
Nope just more out of control behavior by joran. Very telling.

IMO

[Heyes]

Joe Tacopina explains the wine incident on YouTube if you want to see.

Interesting... could you please send us a link I can't seem to find this one.
Thanks Luke!

[Luke Davis]

Interesting... could you please send us a link I can't seem to find this one.
Thanks Luke!

Joe's statement near end (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jan3siM4h0I)

[SaraSidle]

I know nothing about Dutch Law but why wouldn't DeVries file assault charges against Joran? maybe I am being simple

[Luke Davis]

I know nothing about Dutch Law but why wouldn't DeVries file assault charges against Joran? maybe I am being simpleAn interesting question, I tend to think it was a set up action. It certainly got much attention for people I have never known. But your question got me thinking, if Joran had thrown the wine in DeVries lap, would that be sexual assault?


IMO

:hat:

[Heyes]

Joe's statement near end (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jan3siM4h0I)
Thanks luke!

Ok so joe is still on the payroll.
too bad joe had to lie once again to try to sugar coat jorans bad behavior.
What "crude" remark was supposedly made by De Vries? This according to Devries is a lie. And that joran has been exonerated is a lie. Seems joe has as much trouble with truth as joran does. But... what else can we expect?

IMO
If I was anita I would have been Mortified. But no instead of owning it, they ran and called joe to make excuses for their hot headed sporter. Unfortunatly at this point the BS spewed by joe and the vandersloots have fallen on deaf ears. We all know joran is what he is.... Who will his next victim be?
Joran "snaps" on national television. Says alot.
I bet he's having a harder time making new friends these days. lol

IMO
IMO

[Heyes]

I know nothing about Dutch Law but why wouldn't DeVries file assault charges against Joran? maybe I am being simple


I don't think throwing wine is a serious assault. I would assume that Mr. Devries wouldn't bother. AND the main thing here is joran just helped prove Mr. De Vries point. The world got to see jorans charactor. It just confirms what we've heard about him. The reaction Beth had seen and the fact that he is full of rage. He has shown us that he is the type of person who could and would hurt another.
IMO

[fairmaiden]

Thanks luke!

Ok so joe is still on the payroll.
too bad joe had to lie once again to try to sugar coat jorans bad behavior.
What "crude" remark was supposedly made by De Vries? This according to Devries is a lie. And that joran has been exonerated is a lie. Seems joe has as much trouble with truth as joran does. But... what else can we expect?

IMO
If I was anita I would have been Mortified. But no instead of owning it, they ran and called joe to make excuses for their hot headed sporter. Unfortunatly at this point the BS spewed by joe and the vandersloots have fallen on deaf ears. We all know joran is what he is.... Who will his next victim be?
Joran "snaps" on national television. Says alot.
I bet he's having a harder time making new friends these days. lol

IMO
IMO

...... And, of course, Joran throwing wine equates to kidnap, rape and murder ....

ETA .... You are saying Anita should have been mortified, according to you . Then you go on to say she wasn't mortified. "Instead of owning it", they ran and called Joe ???? They did ?? Anita didn't throw the wine !!! What is hers to "own" ??

JMO

[ortiga]

Excuse for what????? they aren't throwing things at people.
:shrug:
Nope just more out of control behavior by joran. Very telling.

IMO

I would say that calling boys gangrapists, murderers, predators and kidnappers on TV does trump a glass of wine thrown. But that's just me.

But Beth did make a cottage industry out of what she insists happened to her daughter, and does seem to bad mouth her own daughter in her book...calling her passive aggressive and saying that she told Natalee over and over that men of all ages would be attracted to her. Seems like that part was right, even a boy that was younger was attracted to Natalee, especially after the jello shot was offered to him.

Poor Natalee. :rose:

[ortiga]

I know nothing about Dutch Law but why wouldn't DeVries file assault charges against Joran? maybe I am being simple


I think that De Vries made a lot of money off the incident, just like the one where another persecuted-by-DeVries person kicked him in the buttocks.

He doesn't have to sue, it just makes him more attractive for the shows, just like Beth screaming gang rape and murder made her more attractive for the cable shows.

IMO

[ortiga]

snipped
I bet he's having a harder time making new friends these days. lol

IMO
IMO

SEems like there is more than one person having a hard time making friends....Beth now has to refer to Ramsey as a "dear friend". That makes my skin crawl, and I bet it does to him too. Has he ever appeared in public with her, ever? All I remember is his denying that they were even dating, after she yakked and yakked about them dating. How embarrassing for her.

IMO

Poor Matt. I bet he would rather have been nearly any where else in the world than have to accompany that mother to her latest publicity seeking "event". Did you see the video of Beth on Oprah? Oprah was speaking very coldly to Beth, the only thing she was interested in was Beth still "dating" Ramsey. Oprah said "That's what we've been told". She was referring, IMO, to Beth telling everyone that.

Poor Beth, take a look at the video, she has cringed as far as she can away from Oprah on the couch, really pushing herself into the cushions at the end of the couch. Body language speaks. She knew that Oprah was thinking "Gotcha"!!!!!

IMO

[ortiga]

I don't think throwing wine is a serious assault. I would assume that Mr. Devries wouldn't bother. AND the main thing here is joran just helped prove Mr. De Vries point. The world got to see jorans charactor. It just confirms what we've heard about him. The reaction Beth had seen and the fact that he is full of rage. He has shown us that he is the type of person who could and would hurt another.
IMO

If I had to choose between being Beth, and being called out on national TV by Oprah, well is she dating him or not?

And, being Joran throwing wine on De Vries,

I'd sure choose to be Joran!!

How embarrassing for Beth to be made to admit on TV that she was not really dating Ramsey, after she had thrown his name around so much. Now he's a "dear" friend. Sure, like "Dear" Beth, please quit saying that we are dating!!! Thanks, Ramsey.

IMO

[ortiga]

...... And, of course, Joran throwing wine equates to kidnap, rape and murder ....

ETA .... You are saying Anita should have been mortified, according to you . Then you go on to say she wasn't mortified. "Instead of owning it", they ran and called Joe ???? They did ?? Anita didn't throw the wine !!! What is hers to "own" ??

JMO


Maye Heyes thinks that the wine did belong to the VDS, therefore Anita "owned" the wine. Maybe she then called Joe to say that the wine was hers, she did own it. But she didn't want any one else to know that she "owned" it?

That's all I can come up with to explain why Anita should have "owned" the wine.

[Grandad]

Excuse for what????? they aren't throwing things at people.
:shrug:
Nope just more out of control behavior by joran. Very telling.

IMO


If throwing a glass of cheap wine into a tabloid reporter's face whose stock in trade is sensationalism is a behavioral problem, what is overturning a desk in a prosecutor's office or shoving a woman holding a baby?

Appears some people have a problem with perspective.

[Heyes]

If I had to choose between being Beth, and being called out on national TV by Oprah, well is she dating him or not?

And, being Joran throwing wine on De Vries,

I'd sure choose to be Joran!!

How embarrassing for Beth to be made to admit on TV that she was not really dating Ramsey, after she had thrown his name around so much. Now he's a "dear" friend. Sure, like "Dear" Beth, please quit saying that we are dating!!! Thanks, Ramsey.

IMO

BWAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA !
unbelievable!
lol lol lol
I don't even have to respond, your post speaks for itself. lol lol lol

IMO

[Heyes]

If throwing a glass of cheap wine into a tabloid reporter's face whose stock in trade is sensationalism is a behavioral problem, what is overturning a desk in a prosecutor's office or shoving a woman holding a baby?

Appears some people have a problem with perspective.

Overturning a desk? really? who and where's the link.
And the shoving woman story is a renfro story so there is a huge crediblilty issue with that one. IMO
Still looking for excuses to justify jorans bad behavior? I thought you were sticking with the he's been so abused by the media and Beth for no reason, angle. Now he's justified because of a couple of non proven rumors? Interesting.
IMO


IMO

[Chocoholic]

I think that De Vries made a lot of money off the incident, just like the one where another persecuted-by-DeVries person kicked him in the buttocks.

He doesn't have to sue, it just makes him more attractive for the shows, just like Beth screaming gang rape and murder made her more attractive for the cable shows.

IMO

Like Geraldo using his schnoz as a chair catcher. It's all about the ratings.

[Heyes]

Like Geraldo using his schnoz as a chair catcher. It's all about the ratings.

Now De vries somehow managed to have his eyes spashed with wine and he did it for the ratings? Are you kidding me? You do realize that joran was the one who had the temper tantrum and threw the wine, right?
That was obviously jorans decision.
But...... you know that.
Unbelievabe!
IMO