Calling All Profilers & Crime Investigators

[LetsBeConcerned]

Calling All Profilers~!!!… Whether you’re a professional, amateur or just like it as a hobby~!!!!

We would like your help~!! I have posted copies of 2 postcards that I would like for you to look at. These postcards were sent to the local paper when Renee Fox was missing.

To some… It may look like a childish prank… Yet it is unlikely that a “child” would know much about “Elliot Ness”

All opinions would be appreciated.

There are so many clues in these creepy postcards, which is understating a lot~!!

I would like to know what kind of underlying messages that they were trying to send as well as what type of person would send those things~!!!

The 2 postcards can be seen here…
http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=9038604&postcount=468

[slynn14]

Calling All Profilers~!!!… Whether you’re a professional, amateur or just like it as a hobby~!!!!

We would like your help~!! I have posted copies of 2 postcards that I would like for you to look at. These postcards were sent to the local paper when Renee Fox was missing.

To some… It may look like a childish prank… Yet it is unlikely that a “child” would know much about “Elliot Ness”

All opinions would be appreciated.

There are so many clues in these creepy postcards, which is understating a lot~!!

I would like to know what kind of underlying messages that they were trying to send as well as what type of person would send those things~!!!

The 2 postcards can be seen here…
http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=9038604&postcount=468


I only saw the front of card??
I don't know much about this case, and I am not a profiler or professional but maybe whomever sent the postcard is trying to copycat another type of crime that happen in the past, wasn't that The Zodiac killer.
It's obvious the person took the time make the card and put certain things taped to the card, and was the card all hand-made or is it an old postcard they used?
I could go on and on, but this is my two cents.

slynn

[Jo_Momma_82]

Front of first postcard.......
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/postcardfrontrenee1.jpg

Heres the back of the first postcard ........
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/postcardbackrenee11.jpg

[Jo_Momma_82]

here's the front of the 2nd postcard....
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/Postcard2Front2.jpg

back of 2nd postcard.......
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/Postcard2back22.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

I only saw the front of card??
I don't know much about this case, and I am not a profiler or professional but maybe whomever sent the postcard is trying to copycat another type of crime that happen in the past, wasn't that The Zodiac killer.
It's obvious the person took the time make the card and put certain things taped to the card, and was the card all hand-made or is it an old postcard they used?
I could go on and on, but this is my two cents.

slynn


Thank you, Both, Slynn & Jo Mama for your posts~!!

The first postcard is of the Laws Museum. I don’t know if postcard was a recent purchase, before it was sent. The Laws museum is an old Railroad station. Of the Carson & Colorado Company. Even though the museum is tens of miles from where Renee’s body was found… I think that if (some of it has rotted away over the years)the railroad line still existed… it would take you right near where her body was found on Mazourka Canyon Road.

Here is a link to the Laws Museum
http://www.lawsmuseum.org/story_of_laws.htm

Here is al link to a brochure of Mazourka Canyon Road.
http://www.blm.gov/ca/pdfs/bishop_pdfs/suv/route8.pdf

Here are links about the Zodiac Killer
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/zodiac/river_1.html
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/profiling/geographic/1.html

When it comes to “copy cats” there are also other crimes that need to be looked at… Including Charles Manson and his followers… They had a base camp in Inyo, when they were captured… they were taken to the Courthouse in Independence another place where Renee was seen. Renee was seen sitting on the steps leading to the courthouse prior to driving up Mazourka Canyon Road.

It is believed that ever since the Manson Family were there in Inyo County… that people of the occult have been attracted to the area. Living as nomads and rarely seen.

There are so many angles that need to be looked at~!!!

Renee’s nude body was found within weeks of the postcards being sent. Her arms were crossed. Which, suggests to many, that she was placed there.

Yet the Inyo County Authorities have NEVER looked at Renee’s disappearance as a crime.

It has been the gracious people that are on the Internet that has been most helpful.

You’re more than welcome to go on and on and on and on…. I know that there are many of us that could…

Jo Mama,
Thanks for posting the postcards here and congratulations on your baby girl~!!

[SimplySue]

Thank you, Both, Slynn & Jo Mama for your posts~!!

The first postcard is of the Laws Museum. I don’t know if postcard was a recent purchase, before it was sent. The Laws museum is an old Railroad station. Of the Carson & Colorado Company. Even though the museum is tens of miles from where Renee’s body was found… I think that if (some of it has rotted away over the years)the railroad line still existed… it would take you right near where her body was found on Mazourka Canyon Road.

Here is a link to the Laws Museum
http://www.lawsmuseum.org/story_of_laws.htm

Here is al link to a brochure of Mazourka Canyon Road.
http://www.blm.gov/ca/pdfs/bishop_pdfs/suv/route8.pdf

Here are links about the Zodiac Killer
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/zodiac/river_1.html
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/profiling/geographic/1.html

When it comes to “copy cats” there are also other crimes that need to be looked at… Including Charles Manson and his followers… They had a base camp in Inyo, when they were captured… they were taken to the Courthouse in Independence another place where Renee was seen. Renee was seen sitting on the steps leading to the courthouse prior to driving up Mazourka Canyon Road.

It is believed that ever since the Manson Family were there in Inyo County… that people of the occult have been attracted to the area. Living as nomads and rarely seen.

There are so many angles that need to be looked at~!!!

Renee’s nude body was found within weeks of the postcards being sent. Her arms were crossed. Which, suggests to many, that she was placed there.

Yet the Inyo County Authorities have NEVER looked at Renee’s disappearance as a crime.

It has been the gracious people that are on the Internet that has been most helpful.

You’re more than welcome to go on and on and on and on…. I know that there are many of us that could…

Jo Mama,
Thanks for posting the postcards here and congratulations on your baby girl~!!

This will be fun trying to figure this out! Thnx for the mystery and the clues. Oh yes, and CONGRATS! on the new baby.:o

[Bluefox]

Can you update me on who Renee is please, when did she disappear, how long till she was found, and when exactly each postcard was recieved?
thank you.

Am i to understand that on the first card, someone has forged the good name of Elliot Ness? Strange indeed! if so.

Looking at the second card, it's definitely not too old, as it has the modern bar code. There's not a single reason i can think of that someone would use Elliot's name at all hmmmmmmmmmm food for thought. Even so there are ways to trace the cards i'm sure.

Someone is playing a game, seeking attention? For what i wonder, and how will it end. Not a child, the writing is adult, and with some education.

[Jo_Momma_82]

I think that the first postcard definitely shows that whoever sent this had to know where Renee was and probably had something to do with it. Considering the items found nearby were pasted on the postcard. I think it's also a taunt but, I don't understand the "elusive" batboy reference or Elliot Ness..... Maybe their a reference to this person thinking that he's just as "untouchable" as Elliot Ness and as elusive as batboy.

[LetsBeConcerned]

This will be fun trying to figure this out! Thnx for the mystery and the clues. .:o

Enjoy yourself… and let me know what you come up with~!!!

I will answer the rest of these post later this weekend…
:seeya:

[AlsoKnownAs]

The first thing I did, is check the phone number on the second card. It's a Residential number 'Available' in Tombstone AZ. I have been frustrated (to get started) waiting for the 'Background' check processing. AKA :punch:
https://www.intelius.com/purchase.php

I found the differences in the handwriting (same writer) from one card to the next interesting. I'm not sure what it reveals. Seems like someone whom traveled around. Cards from Bakersfield, remarks about Bishop. Knew facts of the murder scene & knows about 'Available' numbers in Tombstone AZ. Is there a reverse way to check for available numbers?

Besides the cards, is there a link about any of the information known about the case, or articles that tell us as much as they will reveal to us. Thanks, AKA

[LetsBeConcerned]

Can you update me on who Renee is please, when did she disappear, how long till she was found, and when exactly each postcard was recieved?
thank you.

Am i to understand that on the first card, someone has forged the good name of Elliot Ness? Strange indeed! if so.

Looking at the second card, it's definitely not too old, as it has the modern bar code. There's not a single reason i can think of that someone would use Elliot's name at all hmmmmmmmmmm food for thought. Even so there are ways to trace the cards i'm sure.

Someone is playing a game, seeking attention? For what i wonder, and how will it end. Not a child, the writing is adult, and with some education.



A very insightful & observant post~!!!

Renee was 25… a mother who had put herself through college and graduated within 2 weeks before her disappearance. Renee loved being a mom and was enrolled at the University of Northridge to continue her education… Renee was last seen on Saturday, June 24, 2006 in Mazourka Canyon.
Renee was trying walk back to town after her car broke down. Passersby had given her bottles of water and would later report her to the rangers since it was 110 degrees that day and not very safe for someone to walk those 8 miles that seemed to be unprepared for the elements. The Rangers said they would call the sheriffs.

This scenario would repeat itself, as more passersby would give Renee water and then stop at the ranger’s station. The ranger station is located right off of Mazourka as well as the county jail where the sheriff’s would be. These groups were not associated with each other, and these scenarios may slightly change as maybe some of these groups would have talked to a sheriff directly… … I just want to make the point that these were good Samaritans that were concerned for their fellow man/woman…

The really sad part is that, not the sheriff’s, not the rangers, went up Mazourka Canyon to check on Renee on June 24.

On June 25, other passersby had found Renee’s purse with $900 inside and turned it into the sheriff’s… It was at that point, that the sheriff’s actually went up there. The sheriff’s would then find Renee’s hat and barrette that she was wearing. A shirt was also found, but it has never been mentioned if this shirt was something that she was wearing… so we always assumed that it was something that she had carried with her. I have yet to track down a clear description of this shirt found in the road, just a description of what she was wearing when she was last seen.

The sheriff’s would then claim that Renee had hitch a ride out… and that these items that were found would have blown out of the back of a pickup… If this ride was so friendly, wouldn’t she be aloud to keep those things with her~?

Renee’s car would be found miles further up into the canyon and on a side road.

There are other items that Renee was seen carrying that have never been found or published in the media… I am not aloud to say what those items are, just that they would stand out if found in the middle of the desert.

But I would like to mention that NO shoes or NO sandals were found~!!!

The first postcard was received by the newspaper Friday, July 28, 2006 (34 days later after Renee was seen alive)

The second postcard was received by the newspaper about Aug. 3, 2006 (40 days later)

Renee’s nude body was found on Mazourka Canyon Road and miles closer to town than were she was last seen on the same road. On August 10, 2006 (47 days)

I got the postcard by a third party and can only go on the postmark date…

But why refer to Chloride ARIZONA~!!! Why not refer to Chloride California~!!! :shrug: After all…Chloride CA is in the same county~!!!! Were they trying to throw us off track by going out of the state~???

I definitely agree that Mr. Ness’s named was forged~!!! Or if he was named after him why not give a good address~???

Definite food for thought~!!! Especially when you look at Elliot’s backround~!!!

How educated do you think this person is … How old… or maybe a movie or history buff~???:read:

[LetsBeConcerned]

I think that the first postcard definitely shows that whoever sent this had to know where Renee was and probably had something to do with it. Considering the items found nearby were pasted on the postcard. I think it's also a taunt but, I don't understand the "elusive" batboy reference or Elliot Ness..... Maybe their a reference to this person thinking that he's just as "untouchable" as Elliot Ness and as elusive as batboy.


I by no means want to argue those statements but have to question the word “nearby” That information(posted) is second to third hand (I do respect the person that posted it)… I do want clear up this misunderstanding…if the original source is of the search on Saturday, July 29, 2006… I do believe that those items would have been found… But that search was on Highway 395 near Manzanar Reward Road…Renee was last seen in Mazourka Canyon (2 different roads)… I am not sure where those items were found.(but believe it was on 395) which is very likely to be as far as 20 miles from where Renee was last seen~!!!!! Which makes “nearby” a relative term.

Another thing is… It was “the authorities” that forbade these searchers from searching Mazourka Canyon… What were they afraid of that these searchers were going to find~!!!

I also want to add that I don’t think that anyone on the search was aware of the postcard that was sent to the newspaper, which was only the day before. I seem to recall that even their cell phones were out of area/service…not getting any reception…since the area is so remote.

Something else, that I would like to add, …. Those that were on the search were looking for anything as small as an earring~!! Anything that might be personal and belonging to Renee~!!! And yet something so impersonal as a water bottle…

YET~!!!! Here they were …on a MAIN Highway… with cars & trucks speeding by with only 2 lanes…while they are searching the shoulder…and all they found were empty bottles/cans of alcohol and maybe empty bags of chips… but they were looking for WATER BOTTLES~!!!! Renee was given water bottles~!!!

I am sure that it had to be unnerving to be so close to these moving vehicles going at least 65mph and thinking that some of those driving by may be under the influence. Then to go home and later find out about the postcard, would only be more disturbing~!!!

You are on the right track with “The Untouchables”…I was also told to watch the movie “Missing”… I heard that it mentions Chloride Az:)

[Bluefox]

(Being in Scotland, some of the clues are difficult for me to understand, i.e. your phone system etc)

However, there has to be some importance given to it, otherwise why put it there? I hope you guys come up with something there.

Renee was walking, a few people passed by, giving water, i'm sure they all offered her
a ride, we may take it for granted she refused, and was enjoying the walk even though
it was very hot. Someone i think, came along and didn't allow her to refuse. Some personal belongings found in the road, the other belongings still in the perps vehicle perhaps? especially as it sounds like there was a struggle, and this guy would be in a
hurry to get away, off the road, before other drivers chanced on it.

The only thing i can come up with for the use of Elliot Ness's name: does he work in law? or does he study them, to minimise his mistakes and forensics? does he see himself in the same light? self importance comes to mind, but does he
get recognised the way he wants to be? He's having a laugh being mysterious.

Are there any other crimes that can be connected to the same MO? (The Q's are driving me nuts)

Definitely a movie buff, old movies maybe?

quote: bishop is a wonderful 'small' town, why not just say wonderful town? Could it
be wonderful to him, because he's gotten away with more crimes there? ( not sure of the
geography here either, so bear with me)

cordialy, elliot ness: how many people use that word these days? usually reserved for
invitations etc. Does this suggest he's an older guy, (late child of elderly parents) late 30's upwards, he doesn't need money, he left $900 behind. Pretty well educated, middle class. So robbing was never the intent, he would have grabbed the cash first, he knew what he wanted, so pre-meditated? not his first crime? It's like i can almost see him rubbing his hands together, wonderful town, gleeful, he got away with it, so now he's taunting. The only reason they communicate is to get some recognition!

After studying the writing, i conclude they were written by the same person, from comparing, '450 east line st.' they are exactly the same, except for the misplaced dot on the first card.

I assume no other cards or communication has been recieved since then? That's more than a year. So, is he local, or has he moved on!?

Can you provide a link to any newspaper articles please, and background on Renee? Thank you.

[LetsBeConcerned]

Bear with me a bit since many on the link have been broken…I will provide them as best I can, there are just so many of them to wade through…. I will transcribe some, just be patient…

Here is a link that provides pictures…
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=92620373&MyToken=a50ac3a4-0438-48ab-9a0e-cd4af017cbde


Here are articles that were written by the university that she was planning to attend… …. July 17, 2006
http://sundial.csun.edu/media/storage/paper862/news/2006/07/17/News/Missing.Mother.Planned.To.Study.Education.At.Csun-2131859.shtml?norewrite200701142219&sourcedomain=sundial.csun.edu
Missing mother planned to study education at CSUN

TASHIANA JEFFERSON
Issue date: 7/17/06 Section: News
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http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/ReneePhoto265x371.jpg



Media Credit: Courtesy of Linda RomigRenee Fox holds her son, Eric and husband.

Family and friends of a missing 25-year-old Simi Valley mother, who planned to attend CSUN this fall, hired a private investigator to find her.

Authorities called off their search for Renee Fox on June 28 after search dogs lost her scent. Fox has been missing since June 24, when her car broke down on a remote road near the town of Independence in Inyo County. She walked eight miles through Mazourka Canyon, dropping her belongings along the way, including her purse with $900 inside.

Fox's family and friends remain optimistic that Fox will be found.

Judith Cairns, Fox's mother, said she always smiled and was polite to those she met.

Cairns said Fox did not appear upset the last time she saw her June 21, the day before Fox drove north through the Owens Valley.

"She was so cute (the last time I saw her)," Cairns said. "Her hair was in five pigtails and she was all smiles. She drove past my house and she honked at me. She told me she was taking a friend to work, which was not too far from where I lived."

Cairns said Fox usually encounters trouble navigating through Simi Valley.

The family does not know why Fox's car was found near the town of Independence.

Cairns said Fox could have gone for a drive in an attempt to think about some recent problems. Fox filed for divorce from her husband before she went missing.

"She might've been upset and just took a drive to calm down," Cairns said. "She was on her way home when she lost her way. Her car got stuck (in Mazourka Canyon), so she started walking to town and then she disappeared."

Fox is now listed as a national missing person by the FBI. Cairns said the family has hired Tye Atwater as a private investigator to search for Fox.

"(Atwater) is constantly on it," said Reese Somes, Fox's brother. "He's motivated and working with the local detectives when he can."

Cairns said she was in the hospital a week ago from kidney failure due to stress.

Reese and his wife, Tracey, spent days searching the Owens Valley for Fox when she first turned up missing.

Tracey said Beth Holloway Twitty, the mother of Natalie Holloway, the Alabama teen missing from Aruba since May of 2005, contacted Tracey July 12 to offer support and other resources. Members of the Texas EquuSearch Mounted Search and Recovery Team will now aid in the search.

"The thing we have in common is the search and rescue team," Tracey said. "The same rescue team that searched for Natalee Holloway in Aruba will be searching for Renee."

Cairns said Fox, who recently graduated Pierce College, wanted to be a primary schoolteacher.

"She's so determined," Cairns said. "She was a working mother who took care of her child and went to school."

Cairns said nerve damage sustained from several years of typing at an insurance job, was not enough to keep Fox from finishing school.

"It hurt her to carry her books," Cairns said. "I was surprised she continued to go to school."

Linda Romig, Fox's aunt, said Fox, who has a 5-year-old son, Eric, was excited about pursuing her studies at CSUN.

"Renee always dreamed and desired to go to CSUN," Romig said. "She's very patient with children. She is incredible interacting with her son. She would make a great school teacher."

Fox has three older brothers: David, 41, Reese, 40 and Eric, who died at 28.

As the only girl of four children, Cairns could not help buying Fox everything she wanted.

"She was spoiled, but not spoiled," Cairns said. "She had everything, but she wasn't a brat."

Cairns said Fox had a bright childhood and enjoyed bedtime stories and playing soccer. She took piano lessons at a young age and became a very skilled player, in addition to singing and playing the guitar.

Even as an adult, Fox's family refers to her as "Nee Nee," short for Renee.

Romig said growing up, Fox never appeared to be negative about life.

"She had a fun-loving and optimistic attitude," Romig said. "The glass was always half full, not empty."

As a child, Fox was detail-oriented and liked her hair and clothing a certain way, Cairns said.

"She was so funny," Cairns said. "She was only five or six, but her socks had to be just perfect and her hair had to be smooth on her side ponytail. She was popular in high school because she was a nice girl and I kept her dressed perfectly."

That attention to detail stayed with Fox into adulthood. When it comes to celebrating, family members said they could always count on Fox to be in the spirit and come through with holiday preparations.

"She's really into family," said Tracey, sister-in-law of the missing woman. "She would have the family gather around together and that's hard to do."

Whether it is coloring eggs, making baskets for Easter or making a birthday special, Fox participated.

"She has never missed a birthday," Cairns said. "Every year, she buys a card, a cake and is on your doorstep."

Reese said she always bought presents when visiting family and friends and is contentious of taking care of others.

"For Mother's Day, when all the mothers are sitting around the table, Renee makes sure every mother has a present, card or something," Reese said.

Fox is dependable in other times of need.

When Cairns became sick, Fox took off work for an entire week to care for her mother.

When their father died, Fox was the first person by Reese's side, he said. When her older brother, Eric, was in the hospital before his death, Fox never left his side, Reese said.

Fox's family relied on her for a home-cooked meal.

While she attended Pierce, she made sure dinner was on the table, Cairns said.

"She always makes things from scratch, never frozen," Cairns said.

In addition to cooking, Cairns said the 5 foot 4 inch blonde is also a huge animal lover.

She has raised Duke, her Great Dane since he was puppy.

Fox's family maintains hope that Fox will return and be reunited with her son and puppy.

"She's just so great in every direction," Cairns said. "Nobody could ever fill Renee's shoes."

[LetsBeConcerned]

Second article… Mind you, NO shoes/sandals were found…. I also think that some of these interviews happened the day of Renee’s funeral on Aug. 26…..



Sept. 5, 2006
http://sundial.csun.edu/media/storage/paper862/news/2006/09/05/News/Potential.Csun.Student.Found.Dead-2257086.shtml?norewrite200701142343&sourcedomain=sundial.csun.edu
Potential CSUN student found dead
Simi Valley mother was missing for two months

Danielle R. Swopes
Issue date: 9/5/06 Section: News
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The search for Renee Fox, 25, a Simi Valley woman missing for more than two months, is over. The body of the young mother who hoped to come to CSUN this fall was found under a bush in the desert near Independence, 200 miles from her home, on Aug. 10.

Inyo County Coroner Leon Brune used dental records to identify the body, which had been exposed to the harsh desert summer. It could be up to two months before tests are in and the cause of death can be determined.

Fox's remains were discovered by residents of Independence, a small town nestled between King's Canyon and Death Valley National Park, more than 200 miles away from Fox's home in Simi Valley.

Fox was last seen alive on June 24, walking toward Independence. Investigators said that the their leading theory is that Fox made a wrong turn onto Mazourka Canyon Road on her way out of Independence.

Mazourka Canyon, popular among off-roaders, quickly turns to gravel, leading off into the desert and abandoned mining country. Fox's late model Volkswagen Jetta broke down on Mazourka Canyon Road after the car bottomed out, damaging the oil pan, said Simi Valley Police Detective David Del Marto.

Her cell phone was found in the car, its battery dead. Her purse, which contained $900, was found the next day.

Fox was last seen alive 4 p.m. four miles from her car by a family from San Diego that keeps a cabin in the area. They asked if she was okay, and gave her bottles of water before she walked away. The family called the local police later that evening, trying to get them to go look for Fox.

"They called and they were like, 'Hey, we think there's a girl up here that needs your help,'" said Reese Somes, Fox's brother, as he described the call.

The police went out to look for Fox after her purse was found Sunday.

"We're upset that they didn't go up right away," Somes said.

"The sad part is, obviously she was alive around 4 or 5, and it cools down at night. If nothing criminal happened, she would have been alive Sunday morning. Had they gone up there, we probably wouldn't be talking."
"They told us that 'she's probably partying, you will be hearing from her in a few days,'" Somes said.

Somes and his wife, Tracey, went up to Inyo County and began combing the desert for his sister. The San Diego family that was the last known to see her alive, among others, joined the search. Beth Holloway Twitty, Natalee Holloway's mother, contacted Fox's mother, Judith Cairns. Equusearch, an organization that assists in searches for missing persons, looked for Holloway, sending volunteers and aerial drones to Independence.

"We checked into them before, to make sure they're legitimate," said Inyo County Sheriff Detective Paul Bedell. He added that his department shared information, but that Equusearch "pretty much worked on their own."

"There's issues when we work with others," he said. "We're not going to assume liability for a company that uses all untrained people."

The Inyo County Sheriff's Office went over the area with dogs, but Fox's scent disappeared, only to be picked up again miles away. They called off the search on June 28, deciding that Fox was no longer in the area.

"The cops say that she probably got a ride. Well, obviously it wasn't friendly," Somes said.

"From day one, they acted as if we were inconveniencing them. They kept blowing us off," said Somes. Fox's family hired a private detective, Tye Atwater.

In Simi Valley, Del Marto pulled phone records and performed a forensic exam on Fox's computer, checking to see who she'd been talking to, if she'd e-mailed anyone near Independence, or obtained maps of the area. He checked out these resources after offering the service to the family, he said, but found nothing.

"If it's a homicide, it's a whodunit; she was last seen up there by herself," Del Marto said, noting that she passed on opportunities for assistance.

"Things are probably not going to turn out well for the family as far as closure, based on the circumstances," he added.

Fox's family has their suspicions. Who or what caused the complete loss of the scent trail? Who sent the Inyo Register, the local newspaper, the collaged postcard with Fox's picture on it? Plus, the family says that Fox was found nude, with her pants and sandals nearby.

"No animal is going to just drag away her sandals," Somes said.

Bedell would not discuss Fox's state of dress, citing an ongoing investigation.

"It was probably just a need to kind of get away," Somes said.

At Fox's funeral on Saturday, August 26, Brian Fox stood up with his son, Eric, and praised Renee's skills as a mother.

"I would come home for lunch, from work, and, it was pretty funny actually, on the table there would be breakfast crafts, like Cheerios, and fruit, toast and jelly, and whatever you'd be able to put stuff together. The type of stuff she did to make sure that Eric was entertained and Eric was happy, was amazing. I think for me, it made it easier to be a dad, because I knew that if I ever slacked, she'd pick it up. She picked it up all the time," he said.

Brian made no reference to their marital relations, and quickly had Eric ask for volunteers to speak. There was a pause, as people made out what the little boy had said and summoned up the courage to speak in front of a large audience.

"I know, we all love her. Everybody does. Everybody misses her. I hear some people crying �We all miss her," Eric said. After that, even more people were crying.

Many of the friends that spoke referred to the past, the good old days of junior high and high school. They all mentioned Fox's bright smile, constant good mood, and care for those around her. Several mentioned electric blue highlights, which elicited laughter from the somber audience.

More than 200 people attended the service, which was held at Reardon Mortuary in Simi Valley.

[LetsBeConcerned]

HERE ARE MORE LINKS….
http://www.ridgecrestca.com/articles/2006/06/28/news/news04.txt

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/MISSING+SIMI+VALLEY+MOM'S+KIN+STILL+SEARCH.-a0147884327


There really are no signs on this road... something that I look for when I was up there....
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/MISSING+SIMI+MOTHER%2c+25%2c+STILL+SOUGHT+WHAT+HAP PENED+TO+RENEE+FOX%3f...-a0148096621

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/BODY+FOUND+OUT+IN+DESERT+MAY+BE+MISSING+SIMI+MOM.-a0149575626

http://cbs2.com/video/?id=21263@kcbs.dayport.com&cid=71

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=4322927#

video post cards
http://cbs2.com/video/?id=23373@kcbs.dayport.com&cid=71

The questions WILL drive you nuts because with the answers only drive you to more questions that the authorities are refusing to answer~!!! The authorities have told Renee’s immediate family NOT to call back~!!!

The authorities have gone on and blame the victim as well as the good Samaritans, stating that Renee was a victim of heat exhaustion, telling the public of the cell phone left in her car (leaving people to believe that she didn’t have one (cell phone) on her, when in fact the authorities knew that she had a new working cell phone… and still never took the time to use the technology to track down the “new” cell phone that would ultimately be found next to her body…The authorities defended them selves stating that it would not have changed matters… Heat exhaustion does not explain her missing clothes & shoes…So then, months later, the authorities said that Renee died of a drug overdose… how does that explain the missing clothes and shoes???…

then go back to the area that her body was found …was it ever searched by the authorities~???…the authorities themselves can’t even figure that one out~!!!. Here is a picture taken on Mazourka by the rangers station…on the day Renee’s body was recovered…

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=8952987&postcount=420
Here is a picture taken the same day, from town, just outside the rangers station. The mining structure is on the right. Renee was found just past the mining structure. On the left of the Road.

Mazourka Canyon Road

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/53668_176852_19392349_1155332499-1.jpg


On one hand the authorities are adamant that Mazourka road was searched (everything pictured above )… and they would have found so much as a water bottle …if it was there…so therefore Renee wasn’t there…search called off… no one ELSE is aloud or can continue the search… Renee’s body is found …and then…


This VERY same area was OUT of the search grid….

WHAT~!!!!!

Then the same authorities come out and say that Renee was there the whole time and died of a drug overdose within minutes of taking the drug…Case Closed


The picture above from where it was taken… if it where to pan to the left you would see the county jail as well as the ranger station…

The authorities feel that they have no reason to explain where her clothes & shoes are… or why it took soooooooooooo long to find her ~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here is a debate where the Administrator (Freshwater) had asked Renee’s family what concerns are about the sheriff’s Department… Renee’s family had kept the list of questions “short” as not to confuse or overwhelm anyone… the response from the detective is still shocking…

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=8644555&postcount=128

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=8644557&postcount=129




***That was early in the day, several hours later, after these people had gone about their business, done some sightseeing, engaged in other activities, they encountered, had a chance encounter with, I believe, it was forest service personnel who were at the scene several miles away where they had landed a helicopter for repairs and has the original people that had encountered Renee saw someone in uniform, they said, ‘by the way, we saw this woman up in the canyon. Don’t know what’s up with her, but she was up there.’****(There isn't anything to see in between seeing Renee and the rangers station)
***** The following day, on Sunday afternoon, the 25th, unrelated informants found a purse, some personal property. They reported finding that, deputies responded, and that would be the beginning of any involvement.”*****Finally, Motweiler disputed the family’s assertion that the sheriff’s department had been less than cooperative with Renee’s distressed relatives.
****“We were communicating to the next of kin, the husband,” Motweiller told Crime Library. “There are some other relatives who would call. We were involved in the search, we were involved in working the case and we can’t go through the same information multiple times, so we contacted the next of kin, we provided information to him as the focal point that all of the family could contact and get information. Apparently that was not satisfactory for some of those family members,” he said.******(Very Unsatisfactory~!!!)

There are a few articles as well as message boards written on Crime library… here’s the first…
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0706/0501_renee_fox.html

July 7 Renee escaped the desert…
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0706/0701_renee_fox.html

Aug 14 Renee’s body is found…
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0806/1403_renee_fox.html

aug. 14 body confirmed
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0806/1801_renee_fox_body.html

Nov. 2
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/1106/0202_renee_fox.html


Dec. 1
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_329.shtml

http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_462.shtml

http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_742.shtml


2006 THE YEAR IN REVIEW POLITICAL UPSET, BRUSH FIRE NEWS IN '06
Date: Dec 31, 2006
Words: 725
Publication: Daily News (Los Angeles, CA)

<snippped>
In one of the area's more bizarre mysteries, Renee Fox, 24, of Simi Valley was found dead on a remote road east of the Owens Valley in Central California.
The mother of a 5-year-old son, she had disappeared June 24, and her family frantically searched for her along Mazourka Canyon Road, east of the town of Independence.
That's where her nude body was found in August. Her death was labeled accidental, and her family said she had a bad sense of direction and probably just made a wrong turn and became hopelessly lost.
During the investigation, a photo of Fox was sent to the Inyo County Register, along with a postcard featuring cut-out pictures of alcoholic beverages, potato chips and the head of an extraterrestrial creature pasted on a sheriff's uniform. The mailing was turned over to police.

[LetsBeConcerned]

(Being in Scotland, some of the clues are difficult for me to understand, i.e. your phone system etc)

However, there has to be some importance given to it, otherwise why put it there? I hope you guys come up with something there.

Renee was walking, a few people passed by, giving water, i'm sure they all offered her
a ride, we may take it for granted she refused, and was enjoying the walk even though
it was very hot. Someone i think, came along and didn't allow her to refuse. Some personal belongings found in the road, the other belongings still in the perps vehicle perhaps? especially as it sounds like there was a struggle, and this guy would be in a
hurry to get away, off the road, before other drivers chanced on it.

The only thing i can come up with for the use of Elliot Ness's name: does he work in law? or does he study them, to minimise his mistakes and forensics? does he see himself in the same light? self importance comes to mind, but does he
get recognised the way he wants to be? He's having a laugh being mysterious.

Are there any other crimes that can be connected to the same MO? (The Q's are driving me nuts)

Definitely a movie buff, old movies maybe?

quote: bishop is a wonderful 'small' town, why not just say wonderful town? Could it
be wonderful to him, because he's gotten away with more crimes there? ( not sure of the
geography here either, so bear with me)

cordialy, elliot ness: how many people use that word these days? usually reserved for
invitations etc. Does this suggest he's an older guy, (late child of elderly parents) late 30's upwards, he doesn't need money, he left $900 behind. Pretty well educated, middle class. So robbing was never the intent, he would have grabbed the cash first, he knew what he wanted, so pre-meditated? not his first crime? It's like i can almost see him rubbing his hands together, wonderful town, gleeful, he got away with it, so now he's taunting. The only reason they communicate is to get some recognition!

After studying the writing, i conclude they were written by the same person, from comparing, '450 east line st.' they are exactly the same, except for the misplaced dot on the first card.

I assume no other cards or communication has been recieved since then? That's more than a year. So, is he local, or has he moved on!?

Can you provide a link to any newspaper articles please, and background on Renee? Thank you.

I found this link to the phone number… it is to a newspaper that went out of business around the time that Renee went missing … it is in Tombstone Arizona and it is named Tumbleweed http://www.tombstonetumbleweed.com/


I was also told that it could be a code that should be deciphered. Like some sort of game...:biggrin:

Back in the day of Elliot Ness..... phone numbers also included words and initials like Pennsylvania 6-5000 would be “PA6-5000” and area codes were dialed ONLY when you were dialing from out of the area.:seeya:

Elliot Ness was in law enforcement and went after gangsters, bootleggers as well as corrupt cops… he died in the 1950’s and there have been many books, movies and television series done about him. I even heard a rumor that one of the crimes that he investigated involved taunting postcards… I have yet to verify that part.

To Quote the link below...

"Ness's career in law enforcement continued for a decade beyond the Capone years, a decade in which his very considerable talents flowered. At the age of 33 in Cleveland, he faced the challenge of his career when he took over the corrupt and incompetent police force in a city that had become a haven for gangsters."

the complete article about Elliot Ness is here...
http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangster...rs/ness/1.html
:read:

[Athena]

here's the front of the 2nd postcard....
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/Postcard2Front2.jpg

back of 2nd postcard.......
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/Postcard2back22.jpg

Don't know if he has anything to do with whatever, but this is what came up doing a search. The postcard is stamped August 3, 2006 so for all we know this may be a recently assigned number so don't jump to conclusions:

Forbach, Bill
1253 N Camino San Rafael
Tombstone, AZ 85638-6568
(520) 457-3008

http://www.whitepages.com/9900/search/ReversePhone?full_phone=520-457-3008&localtime=survey

[Elfinrow]

I will give it a go: This person intends to strike again in this wonderful small town of Bishop. They wear a uniform; are posing as something they are not whether that be a cop security guard or whatnot. They drink too much and eat too many potato chips and have a beer gut; they are over weight. Clearly it's "your choice" whether you go after one of your own or speak out. Or it's "your choice" to do what you do or it's "your choice" to drink to excess.
Because of the scary face; he likes to make his victims look this way. He gets off on it. Fear.

*armchair is getting cold so now I have to go back to it*
:eek:

[Bluefox]

I remember watching the series on tv about Elliot Ness, i thought he was terrific, and just the other week i read his biography on CL

Judging by the apathy, and lackadaisical attitude of the local authorities, i wouldn't be surprised if the perp was wearing uniform.

Bear with my previous post, i run it through my mind like a video, and basically put the thoughts down which come into my head!

I'm sure you have already noticed the signifance of the post cards, in that, they were posted and received BEFORE RENEE WAS FOUND,DEAD!!!!

Does this not alone, suggest prior knowledge and VERY STRONGLY SUGGESTS FOUL PLAY!!

I take it, it was those same local hotshot policemen, who said she had taken an overdose? Has there been no information released by the FBI?

[AlsoKnownAs]

My post above the phone number was a 'Residential' number & available (un-assigned). Interesting find that it had belonged to a newspaper. I would have to wonder about a Truck Driver or is there such a thing as Traveling Salesmen anymore? Yes I think the Post Cards indicate foul play. These 'brilliant' LEO's ever release what she suposedly OD on? Has there been an offical report?

[Wichita]

What seems obvious: The Sheriffs Department was unconcerned at the beginning, as were the forest rangers. Why? Perhaps laziness and cynicism combined to equal apathy. The area is harsh, hostile, hot, and visited regularly by tourists. Perhaps the rangers who joked that they hoped it was in the Sheriffs jurisdiction best summed up the attitude of most everyone in that climate. The bottom line is, no one wanted to step out of their comfort zone to check the welfare of this young woman. Professional? Not quite. Sinister? Doubtful, unless one of the deputies is the killer. But, since the entire office seems to be suffering from the same disease, a conspiracy is not likely. It seems like it is apathy, used and taken advantage of by the killer.

What else is obvious? She was murdered. The one thing that makes me think so more than any other clue is that her shoes were never found. Once cannot walk in that environment w/o shoes. (Fetish, trophy, or taken inadvertently when the killer left?) She obviously had shoes when the two groups of witnesses gave her water. The fact that she was nude, with her arms crossed suggests rape, and posing by the killer. It is possible that she could have removed her own clothing during a hallucination caused by drug induced dementia, or dying of thirst and having delusions. The crossed arms, are not normal, and is the best indicator that she was "dumped". It is supported by the missing shoes, and other "unmentioned" items.

Common sense dictates that she was headed in the right direction when the two groups of witnesses gave her water. Folks, how hard is it to backtrack yourself on a gravel road when your car breaks down? All one need do is walk
in the opposite direction in which you were driving. It seems likely that the heat, the miles, the two positive encounters with strangers and the sense of desperation, may have inclined her to get in a vehicle with another kind stranger who offered her a cool drink. A fatal error. Perhaps the vehicle she felt safe getting into was a patrol car?

Why was the money not stolen? The killer never dreamed that a petite, attractive blond, walking alone in the wilderness, would have that kind of money in her possession. Remember, he had not seen the kind of car she had been driving. As far as he knew, she was broke, if not poor. Larceny was not his motive. I imagine he kicked himself, though, when he read accounts of the money he missed. I can just see him cursing himself for being stupid. After all, he took her body, and her life. How easy to have taken her money?
He simply didn't think of it. It was a crime of opportunity, unplanned, and is a "lust murder". The killer is definitely familiar with the area, which means he is a frequent visitor, or a resident.

I don't know what kind of drug the toxicology report indicated she had overdosed on, but my guess would be either cocaine, or some opiate derivative, or synthetic opiate, such as vicadin, or percocet. Considering the condition of her remains, the possible "posing", the nudity, and the missing shoes, it seems possible that the drugs could have been administered to her without her knowledge in order to facilitate control at first, and cause her death later. Unfortunately, the chances of knowing for certain the cause of death is slim to none, unless there is a leak. If she was strangled in addition to the drugs, the hyoid bone may have been broken, which could be discovered by an astute pathologist. If that is the case, don't expect to hear any official reports to this affect for a couple of good reasons. If the killer is connected with the investigation, look for a leak as to the actual cause of death, or of the "unmentioned" items still missing. Why? To make details of the case "public" information can provide a suspect with a defense, or alibi if a suspect is discovered.

The post cards: There are some interesting things about the writing, but I doubt that the cards were sent by the killer. To me, they are definitely critical of the police. The reference to Elliot Ness is indicative of a person who is either bordering old age, or is at least historically savvy enough to hint that a person like Ness is needed to "clean up" the Inyo County Sheriffs Department. It seems that the "alien" head on the sheriffs deputy is a clear reference to a talking head, or someone incompetent at the least, and a monster at the worst. I haven't been able to figure out the Bishop connection, but the "laws" depot is another reference to law enforcement, and a depot is just another word for office. The telephone number is some sort of cypher, which I have no talent for. The reference to alcoholic beverages on the first card may be a clue to a particular officer who is an alcoholic. In a "small town", everyone who lives there will know who the drunks are, and if there is a local cop who drinks excessively, most of the locals will know it. I need to research the geography a bit to understand the layout of Bishop to Chloride, to the area where she was found. The person who sent the cards may be trying to tell the newspaper that there is a crooked cop. Why not just write a letter? Because he/she probably is a member of the same department, and doesn't want to be identified as a "snitch". People are easily identified by their style of writing. It is almost impossible to disguise, imo. Conversely, the killer could have sent the cards to divert attention away from himself, knowing the local opinion about the lack of professionalism exhibited by the cops. :shrug:

Elliot Ness was a "G" man, which was the nickname for federal agents in those days. Today, the FBI is the agency that investigates civil rights violations, and corruption by local jurisdictions. They are the "G" men of today.

I just read this thread tonight for the first time, and I have some work to do to get the information situated in my mind. These are just "first blush" impressions, and are probably way off base....but, I've been wrong before and and I've survived. :D

[FDInLaw]

Excellent post, Wichita!

I'm so happy to see Renee's case being discussed here! Foul play is so obvious. My heart goes out to Renee's loved ones! :rose:

[WarmNCozy]

What seems obvious: The Sheriffs Department was unconcerned at the beginning, as were the forest rangers. Why? Perhaps laziness and cynicism combined to equal apathy. The area is harsh, hostile, hot, and visited regularly by tourists. Perhaps the rangers who joked that they hoped it was in the Sheriffs jurisdiction best summed up the attitude of most everyone in that climate. The bottom line is, no one wanted to step out of their comfort zone to check the welfare of this young woman. Professional? Not quite. Sinister? Doubtful, unless one of the deputies is the killer. But, since the entire office seems to be suffering from the same disease, a conspiracy is not likely. It seems like it is apathy, used and taken advantage of by the killer.

What else is obvious? She was murdered. The one thing that makes me think so more than any other clue is that her shoes were never found. Once cannot walk in that environment w/o shoes. (Fetish, trophy, or taken inadvertently when the killer left?) She obviously had shoes when the two groups of witnesses gave her water. The fact that she was nude, with her arms crossed suggests rape, and posing by the killer. It is possible that she could have removed her own clothing during a hallucination caused by drug induced dementia, or dying of thirst and having delusions. The crossed arms, are not normal, and is the best indicator that she was "dumped". It is supported by the missing shoes, and other "unmentioned" items.

Common sense dictates that she was headed in the right direction when the two groups of witnesses gave her water. Folks, how hard is it to backtrack yourself on a gravel road when your car breaks down? All one need do is walk
in the opposite direction in which you were driving. It seems likely that the heat, the miles, the two positive encounters with strangers and the sense of desperation, may have inclined her to get in a vehicle with another kind stranger who offered her a cool drink. A fatal error. Perhaps the vehicle she felt safe getting into was a patrol car?

Why was the money not stolen? The killer never dreamed that a petite, attractive blond, walking alone in the wilderness, would have that kind of money in her possession. Remember, he had not seen the kind of car she had been driving. As far as he knew, she was broke, if not poor. Larceny was not his motive. I imagine he kicked himself, though, when he read accounts of the money he missed. I can just see him cursing himself for being stupid. After all, he took her body, and her life. How easy to have taken her money?
He simply didn't think of it. It was a crime of opportunity, unplanned, and is a "lust murder". The killer is definitely familiar with the area, which means he is a frequent visitor, or a resident.

I don't know what kind of drug the toxicology report indicated she had overdosed on, but my guess would be either cocaine, or some opiate derivative, or synthetic opiate, such as vicadin, or percocet. Considering the condition of her remains, the possible "posing", the nudity, and the missing shoes, it seems possible that the drugs could have been administered to her without her knowledge in order to facilitate control at first, and cause her death later. Unfortunately, the chances of knowing for certain the cause of death is slim to none, unless there is a leak. If she was strangled in addition to the drugs, the hyoid bone may have been broken, which could be discovered by an astute pathologist. If that is the case, don't expect to hear any official reports to this affect for a couple of good reasons. If the killer is connected with the investigation, look for a leak as to the actual cause of death, or of the "unmentioned" items still missing. Why? To make details of the case "public" information can provide a suspect with a defense, or alibi if a suspect is discovered.

The post cards: There are some interesting things about the writing, but I doubt that the cards were sent by the killer. To me, they are definitely critical of the police. The reference to Elliot Ness is indicative of a person who is either bordering old age, or is at least historically savvy enough to hint that a person like Ness is needed to "clean up" the Inyo County Sheriffs Department. It seems that the "alien" head on the sheriffs deputy is a clear reference to a talking head, or someone incompetent at the least, and a monster at the worst. I haven't been able to figure out the Bishop connection, but the "laws" depot is another reference to law enforcement, and a depot is just another word for office. The telephone number is some sort of cypher, which I have no talent for. The reference to alcoholic beverages on the first card may be a clue to a particular officer who is an alcoholic. In a "small town", everyone who lives there will know who the drunks are, and if there is a local cop who drinks excessively, most of the locals will know it. I need to research the geography a bit to understand the layout of Bishop to Chloride, to the area where she was found. The person who sent the cards may be trying to tell the newspaper that there is a crooked cop. Why not just write a letter? Because he/she probably is a member of the same department, and doesn't want to be identified as a "snitch". People are easily identified by their style of writing. It is almost impossible to disguise, imo. Conversely, the killer could have sent the cards to divert attention away from himself, knowing the local opinion about the lack of professionalism exhibited by the cops. :shrug:

Elliot Ness was a "G" man, which was the nickname for federal agents in those days. Today, the FBI is the agency that investigates civil rights violations, and corruption by local jurisdictions. They are the "G" men of today.

I just read this thread tonight for the first time, and I have some work to do to get the information situated in my mind. These are just "first blush" impressions, and are probably way off base....but, I've been wrong before and and I've survived. :D

EXCELLENT POST! But all your posts are! If this is your "first blush" impression, I cannot wait for the next segment!

[LetsBeConcerned]

I first want to thank EVERY ONE for some Great observations~!!!:seeya: :seeya: :seeya:

Here are some quotes from the Inyo Register, dated December, 2 & 3, 2006.(This paper only prints 3 times a week) Where the authorities contacted the press before the family… Releasing the “Cause of death”

“The mystery of the Mazourka Canyon death has been resolved,” a press release from the Inyo County Coroner’s Office states. “After an extensive criminal investigation by the Inyo County Sheriff’s Department, Inyo County Coroner’s Office and with the assistance of our contracted forensic autopsy service in Southern California, we have determined the cause of death for Renee Michelle Fox as acute methamphetamine/amphetamine intoxication,” the press release sates.

Inyo County Coroner Leon Brune said the toxicology tests concluded on Fox’s remains “confirmed an extremely lethal amount of the drugs were in her system”

“We kind of expected that” a drug overdose could have been the cause of death “from the get-go” Brune said, noting that the other likely possible cause of death would have been “hyperthermia and exposure.” But, Brune said, with the toxicology report in hand, it is a “proven fact” that Fox died of a drug overdose.
<snipped>
“She died within minutes of taking the drugs, not hours,” Brune said, adding that the drugs appeared to have been ingested orally, one of the most potent ways of introducing the drug into the body,

[LetsBeConcerned]

My post above the phone number was a 'Residential' number & available (un-assigned). Interesting find that it had belonged to a newspaper. I would have to wonder about a Truck Driver or is there such a thing as Traveling Salesmen anymore? Yes I think the Post Cards indicate foul play. These 'brilliant' LEO's ever release what she suposedly OD on? Has there been an offical report?

In order for Renee to be picked up by someone driving a “big rig”… Renee would have had to make it all the way to Hwy 395, since I don’t think a big rig would be able to go up Mazourka and especially be able to turn around… Now if Renee would have made it to the Hwy it would have been just as easy to walk to town, since it is also right there~!!!

You can look at an aerial map of the town of Independence CA, to see what I mean.


You may be on to something with Traveler part. It wouldn’t be a salesman as much it would likely be a miner.
The area is filled with old ghost towns and mines~!!! It is illegal to pick up trash in these ghost towns…. As well as (not) make them your home… Everything is supposed to be left as it was 100 years ago.

I think that it is possible that people can still “work” these mines…but I think that they may need a permit… I also think that they cannot make that place (their campsite), a “permanent residence”… So therefore they must move back to their residence or move on to their next mine to work…. I think that I heard that the permits to work the mines could last a year(maybe more or less)… Yet may only be able to camp in the area for only a month or 2. I think it could be because it is on government land, as to why they couldn’t live (permanently) at the same place that they mine.

They may even move from state to state.

I don’t know if these mines contain precious metal or precious stone or both… Either way… I would assume that you would mine one or the other and may not have experience in doing both~??

I took classes in jewelry over 25 years ago, but I don’t think we ever delved into finding the “ingredients” in its rawest form…

[Wichita]

It looks like the "obvious" isn't so obvious now, huh? Let's see....drug overdose is the cause of death, so the next question is whether the death was ruled a suicide, homicide, or accidental. Does anyone know? There are more questions now than there were before...

If it was suicide, why did she remove her clothes? Where are her shoes?
Why did she throw her purse away? Was she totally nude, or partially nude?
I have seen people remove clothing when they are hallucinating, whether as a result of drugs, or with a psychotic break with reality. Perhaps she was just hot.

Overdose on meth or cocaine is painful and violent. Did she simply lie down, cross her arms, and gently slip into oblivion? I think not...she didn't take sleeping pills. Did she have an addiction to meth, and if so, was that part of the reason for the divorce?

I wish dog's could talk. I wonder why her scent was lost at the mine shaft, then found several miles away? Why was her scent found miles away, only to be lost again?

Who found her? Was it during a search, or was she "stumbled upon". Was the person who found her associated with any of the previous searches? Was the finder associated with law enforcement? Does the finder live in the area, or frequently visit the area? Why was the finder meandering around just off the road? What was he/she looking for?

Could she have been depressed enough to commit suicide? It seems likely, since that was the reason for her leaving home, and considering she was seen crying at the court house in Independence. According to the family who gave her water, she was disoriented. Does that mean mentally confused, or was she having a break with reality? Was she perhaps delusional, as opposed to merely disoriented?

If this case is a suicide, or accidental overdose, is there any reason for the authorities to withhold information about what other personal items have been found, and where they were found? Has anyone had any input from the family concerning the cause of death?

The post cards don't seem as sinister as they did, but the reference to Bishop, and it being a "wonderful small town" is nagging me. There was no collage on the second card, just the reference to "Bishop".

Why did the Inyo County cops think a drug overdose might have been the cause of death from the "get go." Which "get go", the disappearance, or the discovery of her remains? Did her husband tell them she was a user? Did they find syringes, pipes, or other paraphernalia during the searches that were not made public? I guess I'm asking too many questions, and apparently some of the answers will never be known.

[LetsBeConcerned]

Why was the money not stolen? The killer never dreamed that a petite, attractive blond, walking alone in the wilderness, would have that kind of money in her possession. Remember, he had not seen the kind of car she had been driving. As far as he knew, she was broke, if not poor. Larceny was not his motive. I imagine he kicked himself, though, when he read accounts of the money he missed. I can just see him cursing himself for being stupid. After all, he took her body, and her life. How easy to have taken her money?
He simply didn't think of it. It was a crime of opportunity, unplanned, and is a "lust murder". The killer is definitely familiar with the area, which means he is a frequent visitor, or a resident.




Excellent Questions…. But I think I should add that the money found in her purse was NOT found in her wallet. It was hidden. The items of her purse were spilled out… So it was already opened when found. Was the purse opened due to impact or someone had already gone through it and thought that nothing valuable was inside~? I know that there are some that never keep their cash in their wallet to protect themselves from “pickpockets.” I know someone very close to Renee that does the very same thing. So we don’t know if the wallet ever contained cash…

Inyo Register December 5, 2006
About a week before she made her trip to Inyo County, Fox had cashed about $13,000 in checks.
Investigators recovered a total of $6,400 from Fox’s purse, car and clothes throughout the investigation, leaving $4,500 unaccounted for.
I definitely agree that he is kicking himself for leaving that much cash behind~!!! But Renee had had it hidden and he may have assumed that he had it all.

Renee was in the middle of a workers comp. case and would have gotten even more thousands of dollars, had she showed up for court. Which, when she didn’t show, was even more reason for concern…. Yet the LE kept insisting that she will come home when she runs out of money~!!! How~? She had NO car~!!!

Those that knew how much cash she had… immediately thought robbery~!!

Now for a some sarcasm … Wasn’t it “sweet” of him to leave enough money behind for to pay for her funeral~!:flamemad:

Something else that may or may not be relevant… and this comes from someone who had seen her in the canyon… Renee was tooo well dressed for the area and the environment … to well manicured for the rugged terrain… someone that would be considered a mirage, yet this was a real person that they had spoken to…At the same time, they also knew that there is a rangers station right on end of the very same road.

(The City of Independence is the county seat and has a population of only about 600.)

Why these same rangers waited 3 hours to call the sheriff’s that were across the street~?
How many had actually told the rangers of the very same sighting~?
Why did the sheriff’s wait over 20 hours before responding~?
Why did it take 7 weeks to find a body this close to the road, that is right behind the county jail~?
Why did it take 7 weeks to find a body this close to town~?

Here are pictures...The first was taken of where Renee's body was found... Strangers, people that never knew Renee have built,
added to, and maintain the memorial.... They had even planted flower seeds that should come up this spring...


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/ReneeMem2.jpg

The second picture was taken by a reporter, of the city of Independence.... that is at the end of Mazourka Canyon Road, on the right of the picture ... Which at the end of the road on the right, IS the Same place that the Ranger's station would be...

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/RIndepenenceAugust152006page2better.jpg

How did she get there~? (Her purse was found miles up the road, inside the Canyon; where as her body was found outside the canyon closer to town) Where are her shoes, clothes and undergarments~?:shrug:

[Wichita]

Thanks for the update. I have some thoughts about the Collage on the first post card:

I think the post cards are from someone who was in the canyon, and knows something. Maybe "Bishop" is the last name of a deputy or ranger, even a local drug dealer. Maybe Bishop is a place where this "informant" would be willing to meet a family member, or private investigator. One thing is certain, he doesn't want to meet with the cops. I was thinking, too, about the potato chips in the collage. I think it was another reference to law enforcement. "Chips" was a popular show back in the 70's. I don't wish to bring up a hurtful
memory, but "Lays" is close to "laid". Perhaps the idea is she was laid there by Chips, meaning cops?

Run an ad in the personals at the Inyo Register. Something along the lines of: E. Ness: We agree. Bishop is wonderful. Do you have any more post cards? Send them to: __---- ---- (address)
It's worth a try. I think this person will help you.

I must go to work, but I'll be back later.

[Wichita]

The longer I think about these post cards, the more I feel that the sender wants you to contact "him". (I think the sender is a middle aged male. The cursive is sloppy, like he really never writes. He prints.) He left you a bogus phone number as a message to "call". The way to call is through the Inyo Register with a personal ad. Give it a try, you've nothing to lose. I think he is a local resident, or even an employee of either the forest service, or the sheriffs department. That's why he wants to remain anonymous. He is afraid. Since the criticism seems to be toward the Sheriffs Dept., my guess is he is associated with that agency in some way. Perhaps a volunteer?

[Bluefox]

You know, i like my movies to have a beginning a middle and an end! This has all the earmarks of a real bad movie, you can't follow it, sections seem to be missing, and the dialogue stinks!! I would walk out on this one, but, oops i forgot, this isn't a movie it's real, and it stinks even more. Are those cops for real?? This is 2007, not 1902 out in the hills, what the heck makes them think people are gonna swallow their garbage?

Reporters should be having a field day with this one, what are they saying about this?

So let's see, Renee plans to commit suicide, so decides to dress up, go for a drive, car breaks down, decides to end it all there, pops the pills, but first throws her belongings around, walks for miles throwing things away with wild abandon, decides to take her clothes off.....................it doesn't work for me.

If this lady was in the habit of taking drugs, surely the first article about it would have read like..................police & family are very concerned about Renee Fox missing for x amount of days, who is a habitual drug abuser, and is known to be depressed..............but there's no hint of this until the conclusion, and miraculously, drugs suddenly come into the picture.

Over here, with suspicious deaths, an enquiry would be held, what's your equivalent? I'd sure like to hear what the coroner (pathologist?) has to say, as it seems all the statements are coming just from those local cops, whom i wouldn't trust to babysit a flea!

Wichita, the clues you've come up with about the card sender, are brill, i hope they bear some fruit, worth trying indeed.

This isn't a straight forward case by all means, and it isn't a straight forward suicide!!

[Wichita]

Bluefox, I just read the entire thread on another board on this site. I now have a little better understanding of what happened. I still haven't been able to get an answer on whether the death was ruled suicide, homicide, or accidental.

Apparently, the family believes she was murdered, which I suspect as well. I doubt if we will ever get enough follow up information to be able to offer any significant ideas for help. I did find out that Renee was found by a firefighter who was riding a four wheeler, and searching on his own. I have no idea if he was one of the volunteers who searched with Inyo county authorities earlier.

I also found out how she was dressed when seen by the witnesses, and there were many, who saw her walking in Mazourka Canyon. There was also a stolen car recovered from the desert near where the search and Renee had been. Consequently, there was a "criminal" element present in the area about the same time Renee and the benevolent witnesses were there. Her pocketbook was found near the mineshaft where her scent disappeared, but there was no mention of whether there were any tire tracks, or other people's foot prints. The mine was searched, but nothing was found. She was given water by two different sets of people, yet none of the plastic bottles were found along the track she walked to get out of the canyon. Apparently, her tracks were fairly easy to follow until they disappeared, some eight miles worth of tracks. According to the news articles, the sheriffs department was not notified by the forest rangers as reported by the witnesses who gave her water. The Sheiriff's spokesman said that their office was not notified until the 25th. I have a tendency to believe this, considering the forest ranger's attitude that they hoped she was in Sheriff's jurisdiction, not theirs. At any rate, the search was too little, too late. The deputies believed she had made her way completely out of the canyon, and perhaps caught a ride. They hinted that they thought she was a drug user, which leads me to think that some sort of paraphernalia, or possible drugs was found in her car, purse, or pocketbook. No one is saying, so we will never know. It doesn't matter whether she was using drugs, it matters whether or not she was murdered. Just because a drug overdose is the listed cause of death, it doesn't mean she wasn't forced to take the lethal dose. I would like to know why the cops suspected drug involvement from the "get go".

Also there was another little tid-bit that caused me to raise an eyebrow. She had called her boyfriend on her cell phone, and told him she was somewhere on 395. This call was the night before she drove into Independence, and subsequently into Mazourka Canyon. He said he told her, 'Why don't you just come home?' "and she did". That is either a mis-quote by the reporter, or the boyfriend was mistaken. How could she have come home, and then disappeared in the canyon? Obviously, she did not come home.

Not knowing what has been investigated, and explained; and what remains a mystery is too much. I would like to know more about the stolen car. When was it stolen? Where was it stolen from? What is the criminal history of the owner? Is it a legitimate stolen, or was it fraud? Did the owner get it stuck while doing drugs in the canyon, and report it stolen to cover the loss? How did the thief get out of the canyon? Did he have friends to give him a ride? Did they pick up a young woman walking down the road? I don't know Blue....Mazourka Canyon sounds like a busy place...:shrug:

[Bluefox]

Thanks Wichita

I just read part of the other thread, and it clears up one part, about the drugs. It's still like a jig-saw puzzle, with too many parts missing. Why the post cards at all? It's very strange indeed. :shrug:

[Wichita]

After spending several hours going over the other thread on the other board, as well as following links to other web sites, it is clear that this is a HUGE cluster.

There have been two other women found dead besides Renee. The authorities are playing everything close to the vest, and not releasing any information. It is impossible to determine if there is a link between the other two deaths, let alone determine if they were homicides.

It is also clear that a local law enforcement officer using the moniker Larry W, has said some very unprofessional things to the family, and apparently there is the threat of a law suit by the family against ICSO. I imagine that any information that is gleaned from these discussions will end up in court, if a suit is filed. I certainly don't blame the family for their lack of trust toward ICSO, or any other L/E for that matter. The forest service dispatcher sat on the call for three hours, and then there is the "I hope she's in the county's jurisdiction" remark by the ranger. Apparently, there was only one deputy on patrol on June 24, 2006, and he was booking a prisoner at the time the forest service dispatcher notified the ICSO dispatcher, which was a recorded phone conversation. The ICSO dispatcher neglected to pass the information along to the deputy when he cleared the jail, and subsequently, no one was sent into Masourka Canyon until the following day, almost 24 hours later. Although this is very tragic, and totally unprofessional, according to my understanding of civil law, the only person with standing to bring a law suit would be Rene's son. I might be wrong, because I am not familiar with California law. The states that I am familiar with will not allow a law suit for wrongful death unless the survivor is dependent upon the future earnings of the deceased.

I did some research, and found out that the stomach is one of the first organs to decompose. Therefore, the contents of the stomach would not have been available for toxicology analysis. The liver, on the other hand, is one of the last organs to totally decompose. Since the liver is the body's chemical processing plant, it is clear that substances might be found in the liver at autopsy. However, since the body has a tendency to store methamphetamine in fat cells, and in the liver, I suspect that this is where the information about the amount of meth in the system came from. However, there is no way the coroner could have said with certainty that the amount of meth in the body was the cause of death, nor that it was ingested orally, unless mummification of the remains took place. If mummification took place, there is a slight possibility that some of the contents of the stomach remained. It is unlikely. I doubt that there is a conspiracy between the pathologist who conducted the autopsy, and the ICSO, or coroner. In order for the family to know the actual results and manner of death, they must have a copy of the autopsy report. The family may want to have an independent pathologist study the report, and recommend whether a second autopsy should be conducted, if it is not too late. Apparently, the case has been closed, and is considered an accidental death. Therefore, all of the reports and evidence should be available to the family upon request. If the ICSO refuses, then get a court order for the files and evidence. BTW, there is absolutely no way the coroner could establish the time of death to the 24th of June. A body deteriorates in a fairly stable manner, depending on the conditions. It would not be too difficult to determine how long Renee had been dead before discovery. There is a pathologist at the University of Tennessee who has conducted years of research on decomposition of human and animal remains. I will find a web address for you.

After reading the posts on the other board, I also believe the reason the ICSO refused to allow TES to search the canyon by ground search was to prevent anyone from finding anything. Their argument will be that they didn't want "amateurs" to damage potential evidence, but it is clear that the ICSO had, by that time, convicted Renee of being a drug addict. That they were not concerned is an understatement, and it appears that the refusal to allow a search by this very reputable company was just.......stupid at the least, and
sinister at the most. What did they have to hide? Incompetence? Something worse? It was a very poor decision. The other sad reality is that the ICSO did not have the authority to prohibit anyone from searching at the time TES was there. There was no crime scene, there was no body, there was no nothing. Anyone could have searched anytime, with no fear of arrest.
Did he stop other visitors from using the canyon? I think not.

If any of the family or other concerned person associated with the family is still visiting here, I would like to know whether there is any confirmation that Renee was seen at a store in Independence on Saturday night? I think I read somewhere that this lead had been discounted, but I can't remember for certain.

I commented yesterday that perhaps the anonymous post card sender wanted the family to establish some sort of communications, and that he perhaps intended to use the Inyo Register. After reading the other thread, it is clear that the family doesn't trust the Register, and understandably so. Sometimes, we have no choice but to use the tools we have.

As a member of a small community, I would like to give the family some advice. This is to help, not to criticize. Everyone who has any ability to comprehend at all can see that you have a clear right to be angry. If you are ever going to get to the bottom of Renee's death, you are going to need help.
Build some bridges. Back off a little on the saber rattling, and quietly go about the community asking questions. I can tell you that small town politics are different. People do not grease the squeaky wheel as readily there as they do in larger communities. Publicly thank the members of the ICSO who searched for Renee. Express regret about the outcome, and empathize with the authorities regarding the other unsolved deaths, not to mention the other problems with drugs, etc. I know this will not be easy, but I think it will pay dividends with the community, the newspaper, and perhaps with the SO. Eventually, you will be able to get what you want from the community.

I hope I haven't offended any of the family with this advice. I am truly trying to help from an objective point of view. As a government employee for the past 36 years, I know what I am talking about when it comes to dealing with public officials in small towns. Remember, there are two other suspicious deaths that may or may not be related to Renee's. What you find out through the bridge building process may help others that are now in the same boat with you.

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is a map, where I have tried mark all the areas of interest to this case. So you can better understand all the distances in the case.

If you look at the aerial view and zoom, you will be able to see the buildings as well~!!!:)


http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=36.792346~-118.130981&style=r&lvl=10&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&cid=7D4BFD8A28CFE8E2!227&encType=1

I sure hope that this comes up right~!:seeya:
If not I will try again...

[Wichita]

It came out very well. I am studying the layout. I'll be back

[Wichita]

To research information about decomposition, and estimating time of death, google The Body Farm. Professor Bass has conducted much research, and you might have to buy a few books, but it will give you more necessary information, especially after you read the autopsy report.

Thanks for the map. It helps.

[Bluefox]

After reading through the earlier thread, i stand by my first posts on this, the Profiler thread.

Not knowing of the other thread's existence, our task was to work out a profile from the two post cards and synopsis provided by Letsbeconcerned.

I'm not gonna re-hash & re-hash, so it's condensed:

Renee was known to have taken drugs in the past, but she was by no means your much read about down at heel drug type, and by all accounts she was trying to make something of herself.Some of her extended family are posting here, admirably, whilst going through such personal pain. They say she was a beautiful, strong determined lady. I believe them, they know her better than anyone, and when their instincts tell them something is amiss, something is amiss!!

I asked if there were any other murders which could be linked. Two more ladies are found, with either no or little information published. But it seems that women are killing themselves off with knives, drugs etc, but at least one Renee, has the presence of mind to cross her arms? (yeah right) LARGE RED FLAG HERE! Then we have the ad looking for info about the alleged murder of two missing men, allegedly carried out by person/persons from Bishop. WE NOW BEGIN TO SEE WHY BISHOP IS SUCH A WONDERFUL SMALL TOWN. You can do anything you like here, and get away with it. It has all the hallmarks of conspiracy, cover up call it what you will, but if there's more than one killer, the MO is gonna change, and it might appear that none are linked. With the kind of policing going on here, LE wouldn't be able to link up a paint-by-numbers. (Who's in charge of THEM and why haven't they all been fired?)

Because the post cards were sent before Renee was found, i am not convinced that it was someone trying to reach out. I think it was sent for sinister reasons.

(BATBOY: half human, half bat: bats live in caves (mines?) and in all movies, bats are seen as sucking the life blood out of people. In 'human form' (half human of course) they have incredible strength: CHIPS: traffic cop?) I'd be interested in anyone else's 'mind game' with these clues. The numbers seem to have great significance, either we need a mathematician or someone who knows about codes!

All the information pertaining to decomposition, smell etc etc, all the people who had been up there from day one, leads me to believe her body was later placed there, and her arms crossed. Did someone think it was 'time' for her to be found?

The sheriff seemed rather paranoid about not letting anyone search the crucial areas, yet we are led to believe he is PSYCHIC, 'cos she definitely isn't there?

She was seen crying earlier. Could she have recieved a distressing call on here cell phone. Was she meeting someone up there? Were her recieved and sent calls checked out?

Because drugs were found in her system, (of which i know nothing about, so can't comment) it gave LE the cop-out they needed, no further investigation required, then start back-pedalling to save their asses, or it helped in their duplicity.

Duplicity:1: contradictory doubleness of thought, speech, or action; especially : the belying of one's true intentions by deceptive words or action
2: the quality or state of being double or twofold
3: the technically incorrect use of two or more distinct items (as claims, charges, or defenses) in a single legal action

I have much admiration for LE, it's the minority of corrupt which is dispicable. They are paid by public money, we entrust them to serve & protect, those are the ethics they sign up to.

My heartfelt sympathy goes to Renee's little boy and her extended family & friends. Also to the people contributing on this site, who give a damn about someone who they may not even know, to try to find justice for her. I hope closure will be found here!

Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer, just WHO ARE THE ENEMY!

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/ciudad_juarez/

it can happen anywhere!

[LetsBeConcerned]

I thought I would provide some more links so you can better understand the distances and differences between the different Counties.


Here is a link of all the counties in California.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_counties_in_California

Renee lived in Simi Valley, Ventura County

Renee’s body was found just outside the town of Independence, (county seat) in Inyo County

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inyo_County%2C_California

The autopsy was performed in Orange County…

The Orange County Coroner, Michael S. Carona has been indicted on corruption charges.
http://losangeles.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel07/la103007usa.htm


The postcards are stamped Bakersfield, the county seat in Kern County

They are also stamped, Mojave, CA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mojave_Desert

Here are some of the deaths from last summer (I also heard of a death in Keough Hot Springs, but without a name I can’t verify )

Summer Deaths Still Unsolved
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_302.shtml

Chloride Arizona is in a County named Mojave

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohave_County%2C_Arizona

More about Chloride
http://www.desertusa.com/chloride/du_chloride.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloride%2C_Arizona

I sure hope this helps everyone~!!!:seeya: :seeya: :seeya:

[geofizz]

Not up on this case at all, just read bits, one report suggests victim was found nude, alarm bells, another suggests other bodies found in past in same area, more alarm bells, Victim dismissed as drug user but a nude drug user 200 miles away from home, come on people. Date rape drugs arnt usually taken volenterily by victims.

I think the trail starts were the body was found, where there more bodies found over the previous ten or twenty years and if so what sex. Profilers always miss a very important part of the crime scene when a serial killer could be involved and thats the body location. It dosent seem much or important but serial killers often bury by sex or dump by sex, This means to a serial killer the body must be placed, the placing is exact to a couple of yards sometimes even less. On the road in question if a serial killer was involved there would be other females already or about to be placed on the same side as Renee Fox was and on the other side of the road there would be in all probabillity male victims now or to come. The burial paterning would be circular and have a central point. A Mine or something tall or something missing from view and the victims would be placed round that centre point in vacant posititions, Vacant positions are hard to describe but one or more Serial killers can use a burial area, some killing a single sex and some killing both sexes.. i don't know much about anything except burial patterning of serial killers worldwide and this case has all the alarm bells i have ringing. If her body was found in the wrong position that also suggests it was not left there by a serial killer. I do doubt she walked 200 miles though or got naked to have a fix or a hit, where were her clothes, shoes. I apreciate some articles were found some two hundred miles away but she may have tried to leave a trail for someone to follow. Keep an eye on the area, if more bodies are found within a thousand yard area, it could be a lone site or serial killer central, Cases the paterning was missed are Hillside stranglings, New Orleans Durban SA WEst and Moors cases Ipswich and MI murders Dawn Shields UK, Green River. USA. thats just for starters.

Best Regards
Geofizz

[FDInLaw]

I am wondering if he uses **Chloride** Arizona as a drug reference, maybe that where a drug ring is and she was going to snitch on them. In this article was towns Colorado mentioned.Drugs I feel was definitely a product of her murder.Maybe thats why they took the cloths..because there was a drug on them.:shrug:

Illicit drug makers can cook small batches of meth anywhere they can plug in a stove, microwave, or electric skillet (heat is not required, but speeds the manufacture). The ingredients include common cold medicines, ammonia fertilizer, and muriatic acid. Cooking generates a variety of noxious solvents and gases, such as hydrogen **chloride**, phosphine, and meth itself. According to an 8 August 2005 Newsweek article, for each pound of meth produced, five pounds of toxic waste are left behind.

The other thing you mentioned was her hands where crossed when found dead...Kind of reminds me of some type of symbolic like in a cult type doing or how the old west would place the hands before bariel...
They figured that was her proper way to be found as a way to make fun of her death.

I wonder if there is any other deaths that where similar around in the USA where the hand s where found in that position of a possible murder setting. Maybe this dude travels around all over...
The way Renee's body was found really bothers me too. . . I'm a complete amateur so you all bare with me. . . isn't death by dehydration and/or drug overdose quite painful??? I've heard that people do crazy things like strip their clothes off when under the influence of certain drugs, so the being naked part doesn't bother me half as much as the peaceful pose she was found in. It just all seems staged to me. . . like Renee was murdered and her body was put in the position. Question; did the coroner determine that Renee died while laying on her back??? Blood pooling should have made this easy to determine. Has the family been provided with this information? If not, I'd say something is terribly wrong.

[Wichita]

The family has been unsuccessful in obtaining the actual autopsy report. What they do have is a "coroners report" from the Inyo County Coroner. That particular report is very vague, and is primarily a list of check boxes, with very little information. The narrative of the coroner's report is very vague as well, not describing the scene where Renee was found in detail. He did not mention that her arms were crossed, only that a pair of outer short was found 100' east of the body. There was no mention of her shirt, or panties, or shoes, or cap....nothing. The ICSO will not release copies of their case file, so the family is not getting any detailed information. Why?

When a body has been exposed to the elements and advanced decomposition takes place, blood is not readily available in many cases. However, in this case, apparently blood was the substance analyzed to determine the toxicology, according to the coroners report. That still doesn't mean the amount of substance found in Rene's system was the cause of death, it is the cause the coroner listed, because it is convenient. It is a matter of professional opinion. I think the doctor who actually conducted the autopsy ought to be the opinion the family is concerned about. Until they can get a copy of that document, they are still stuck with the coroner's opinion.

The cause of death during a drug overdose with stimulants such as amphetamine/methamphetamine, is stroke and/or heart failure. With amphetamine/methamphetamine, the heart rate increases causing what is known as tachycardia. It is painful, and panic is associated with it. I have personally investigated unattended deaths where the deceased removed clothing during a heart attack/stroke. The associated panic causes a claustrophobic reaction, and victims sometimes remove restrictive clothing. I have never seen a victim cross their arms across their chest in any of these cases, nor have I seen it in a murder unless the body was posed. Try lying down, and holding your arms crossed over your chest. They will not stay in place. the hands will rest on the sides because the elbows will come to rest on the floor (ground). I don't know if her hands were crossed over her stomach, her chest, or the elbows resting on the ground. It will make a difference. At this point, I would not trust any written report by any of the officers at the scene. Photographs will tell the truth.

In Renee's case, there was no mention of a bra being worn, or found at the scene, nor were there any panties. Was she wearing either one? No one knows. What is known is that shorts is all that was found. Could she have been suffering from tachycardia, associated with meth, and heat stroke? It's possible, but that is a violent death. It is not a "lay down, cross your arms over your chest and go to sleep" scenario. I'm not ready to accept the coroner's opinion of accidental overdose. I agree, FD, it seems staged to me, too.

[geofizz]

The prime thing is fact in the case and there seems little, the girl was found posed? Where both arms crossed or was one arm crossed? She was off a main highway but exactly which side of the side road was she on. The roads a dead end but she wasent at the end of it? There is nearly enough information there if its acurate to suspect a serial killing or a murder. Corpses dont generally pose themselves, there is some doubt about the town she came from, how many people have gone missing in that area or 25/50 miles round it in the past ten years. Its likly she got in a car with someone she knew. maybe just passing, drug dealers would have killed her where she stood, and might not have buried her. Two hundred miles away to be posed with possibly only one arm draped sugests the arm was pointing at something.

The something these days could be invisable but historic. If i was on the case i would start with the Medicine man of the local tribe or elders and ask about that area. Alarm bells would ring if the area was within a thousand or two thousand yards had Indian importance. If it had you can bet on a serial killer if not, its just a possibility. The geology is intresting, mining is a magnet for serial killers as is earth disturbance on or near sensitive sites, 220 people commite suicide a year in the uk on rail lines, a third commit the act on only six miles of track, the track and station are undergoing improvment.

The highest suicide location in the world is a cliff called beachy head the cliff extends for miles but the suicides mainly jump within four hundred feet of each other, the site they jump from is the centre of an avenue leading to a wooden circle built in the Bronze Age,. about three people today know where the circle was or the avenue to it still is. The people who jumped never knew.

lots of serial killers bury/dump in circles round electromagnetic anomoly. when the circle is full the last killer to use it usually buries a spade, another area is then chosen, in the Uk and Europe these sites are very easy to identify in the country but much harder in towns, there is usually something within every square mile but in the US there is a major problem with Indians. Generally the Indian was transiant, they used kieva stones on the great plains etc to mark important sites but used Totem poles which were removable. This is good practise enviromentally but the Medicine man or chief had to know were sensitive sites were. You can't be out by 3 feet, a serial killer dumping or burying cant be out by six feet either. While no one is bothered which side of a road a victims placed or if the location is correct they also wont realise why serial killers have to return to the area but not to vist the grave or the body but to experiance the buzz the area gives them. Its hard explaining but working on a missing victim case for 13 years you learn stuff. The Missisipi mound builders . Mayan's and Atecs knew all about where a male or femal body should be placed and why and the only people today who know that today are serial killers. Strange but true.

Regards
Geofizz

[Kellapple]

I remember when I first read this story and the follow ups on Crime Library. I just assumed the findings of the investigators was correct. After reading all the posts, I too find it suspicious. I think everyone has good points and maybe it would be nice to forward all this to the sheriff there and light a fire under them. Does anyone think the misspelling of "Regester" in the second post card is in anyway significant? So many questions.........

[awakening2lite]

Here's my first impression:

The person who authored the cards was right handed.
This person wants to be clearly understood
This person wanted her to be found
The post card with the collage says to me:
1. She came across this person
2. The killer gave her a choice of some sort perhaps to remove her clothing and he would give her something to drink
3. It is the killers thinking that she chose to drink poison even though she either did not realize it was poison or was simply desperate with thirst
4. Then she laid down and died
5. He felt because he was with her he saw her soul leave her body
6. He is both haunted and thrilled by what (he feels) transpired between them.
7. Missing clothing might be kept by the killer as a souvenir
8. The museum is a place where old things are kept for others to discover.

Eliot Ness show was titled the untouchables and that is how this person percives himself.
He might feel he is untouchable because he has some "insider" connection to LE. Maybe he is a relative or friend of someone. Or he might be the very last person anyone locally would suspect because of his age.

Bishop might be a place of interest because he goes there or because he wanted to be sure the paper would mention or print the post card.

side note: the stamps were released in March 2006. The buckeye moth may have a clue that he was and is watching.

[Wichita]

I screwed up....Renee's shorts for found to the "WEST" of her body, not the east. I apologize to "Letsbeconerned", and all friends and family of Renee for getting this wrong. I will be MUCH more careful the the future.....

[Kellapple]

Yesterday I read the Black Dahlia Amazing New Updates. The guy on that website really read a lot into the post cards that were sent in that crime. Pretty interesting decoding. I wonder if he looked at these post cards.

[awakening2lite]

The phone number on the post card:

reference: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:Xtq6teY9PJAJ:fire.r9.fws.gov/ifcc/esr/Media/Arizona%2520News%2520Media%2520Contacts.doc+520-457-3008&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

EXCERPT

Tombstone Tumbleweed 520/457-3008 Weekly: Thursday

312 Toughnut FAX: Deadline: Monday noon

Tombstone, AZ 85638 520/457-2378 Editors: Mr. & Mrs. Politi

tombstonenews@ssec.com Chris Simcox

[awakening2lite]

I remember when I first read this story and the follow ups on Crime Library. I just assumed the findings of the investigators was correct. After reading all the posts, I too find it suspicious. I think everyone has good points and maybe it would be nice to forward all this to the sheriff there and light a fire under them. Does anyone think the misspelling of "Regester" in the second post card is in anyway significant? So many questions.........

Hi Kellapple,

I think the word spelled as "Regester" is more about the way the person speaks (accent) than anything else. It is that terrible way most of us make mistakes in spelling due to the way we pronounce the words.

Good catch!

[curiousfriend]

I aint no-one in law,still I will take a stab at it though!

This person is telling you he does not like the cops and making fun of them,because he thinks he/she is better and they won't find the truth.
He/she made a map for you telling you a story.
I think he wanted to murder her a long time ago...Someone who knew her.
This person knew her very well.

I think a hand writing check on people may help( friends or familly!). You might find someone who writes this way..
Ask at the local post office's.... if the hand writeing looks formiliar...as they probably see lots and this may stick out like sore thumb

By the way...He/she writes
big, a symptom of wanting to be noticed as it is a thrill to him/her to send this card.It is funny to who ever sent it and it is no joke.
He/she wants to confuse you, but then agaon maybe this guys travels and goes to these towns for some reason..was she ever to the one town or state?
Has the card been checked for DNA... ect?

Is this dude in the military or in a university?

He likes to drink...hung around in the town bars maybe?
the bat face or what-ever..I think this dude was out for her blood,maybe even from passed issues?


Brings up the word Bishop....Was this dude some type churh goer of some sort?

He likes historical information like trains or the west.

Didn't Nae have an old friend by the name of "Alabama" that she trusted very much? Hmmmm. . . . just brought some previous scenarios from a couple of months before Renee disappeared . . . . time to sit and go over the past in my head!!!!!

[curiousfriend]

Hey, I hope this is no dream but....I will throw it in anyway....who knows!
I was just thinking I believe somewhere in the past I read about a serial killer who was a movie buff.Went to movie contests or some type of doing like that. In "Alabama" and they have the Lone Pine film festival...Thats meantioned in his card.God I think I read this or saw it on a t.v. show of the past.Where best to get "Ness" fever.That dude was never found.Anyway something was real simular to all of this.I am going to do a little research.

The Lone Pine Festival was going on up there during the time that renee went missing as well as Bodie days which is also very interesting in itself, especially if you check out a site called Explore Historical California the site creators were up there, they also give 4x4 tours up in the hills and mines of Inyo County, they are very good friends with the BLM rangers, and the wife is an editor for the Los Angeles Daily Newspaper, and the husband during the school year is a professor at CSUN, whom from what I understand took one of his classes on a field trip up to Mazourka Canyon a year prior to Renee's disappearance. Also, I'm not sure if I read something about LarryW on this thread or the other but he is Larry Walsh with airtrash.com theres some pictures on his sight that gave me the creeps and I shall go no further with anything else in regards to him due to fear! Check out "Fading from the Media" and you will understand. Thats all I know for now

[curiousfriend]

he ia a professor at pierce college (not CSUN) where nae had just graduated from.

[curiousfriend]

Funny, you caught that Mr. Wright is also better well known as D.A, Wright loves taking pictures also, posts them on webshots.com

[Wichita]

I don't want to pick a fuss here....but there is just no way the guy who sent those cards had the time or imagination to make every little part of those cards mean something. First, there is no threat in the cards. The cards were meant to ridicule the ICSO and the unprofessional conduct exhibited by their office. The sender doesn't want to be identified, because he doesn't want to make the s..t list of any Inyo County cops. The references to Chloride and Tombstone were red herrings to make the cops think he wasn't local, or at least only part time. The moth stamp was just a moth stamp, and the Alabama range has no meaning at all. The only thing that was duplicated on both of those cards was the statement "Bishop is a wonderful small town." Why did he want Bishop highlighted? He didn't highlight anything else twice.

IMO, the sender wanted to start a "conspiracy" theory at ICSO and the newspaper, plus he just might want to communicate with the family. I'm certain some of the locals had quite a hoot after the first card was received, and copied in the paper. I have to remember to apply the KISS principle when dealing with motives. I have a tendency to give more credit to unknown suspects than they usually deserve.

[Kellapple]

Crimehunter, I finally see what you mean by the markings on the bottom left of the post card. I tried to blow it up and see if I could make anything out. I might possibly see an N and a T and there is also some of the orangish markings under the red bottle. I wondered the same thing about the tape such as maybe finger prints too. But if the investigators don't believe a crime was committed I don't think they would go to the trouble. Does anyone know what has become of the post cards?



Front of first postcard.......
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/postcardfrontrenee1.jpg

[awakening2lite]

Yep! I see those letters and something might be written or had faded into the card Like graffiti.There is probably a whole lot of finger prints on there now...maybe they can pick them out and do forensics.

I think you are right. It's almost impossible to handle tape with gloved hands. Is there any way to find out if fingerprints were lifted from the card?

TIA

[Kellapple]

Crimehunter, I knew I'd seen that bat boy picture before. (it was bugging me, thanks for finding). As far as looking for prints on the tape (tacky side) I don't think anyone will. I think the case is closed as far as the investigators are concerned. IMO:shrug:

[ladybugg1]

:seeya:

I like to try and fit the puzzle pieces together when I hear of a case.

Sometimes I get it right sometimes I do not..


:patriot:

[curiousfriend]

just to let you guys know the items on the postcard were found around where they found her car broken down.

[LetsBeConcerned]

just to let you guys know the items on the postcard were found around where they found her car broken down.

I would like to know what your source is~?? Were you there~?? :cool:

[Kellapple]

The date on the first Postcard is July 29, 2006 and August 3, 2006 on the second postcard.

[curiousfriend]

I believe that was stated on a few other boards - but not being 100% positive I will confirm with a friend that was up there searching on motorcycle with Nae's brothers and other family members!:rose:

:punch:

[curiousfriend]

I by no means want to argue those statements but have to question the word “nearby” That information(posted) is second to third hand (I do respect the person that posted it)… I do want clear up this misunderstanding…if the original source is of the search on Saturday, July 29, 2006… I do believe that those items would have been found… But that search was on Highway 395 near Manzanar Reward Road…Renee was last seen in Mazourka Canyon (2 different roads)… I am not sure where those items were found.(but believe it was on 395) which is very likely to be as far as 20 miles from where Renee was last seen~!!!!! Which makes “nearby” a relative term.

Another thing is… It was “the authorities” that forbade these searchers from searching Mazourka Canyon… What were they afraid of that these searchers were going to find~!!!

I also want to add that I don’t think that anyone on the search was aware of the postcard that was sent to the newspaper, which was only the day before. I seem to recall that even their cell phones were out of area/service…not getting any reception…since the area is so remote.

Something else, that I would like to add, …. Those that were on the search were looking for anything as small as an earring~!! Anything that might be personal and belonging to Renee~!!! And yet something so impersonal as a water bottle…

YET~!!!! Here they were …on a MAIN Highway… with cars & trucks speeding by with only 2 lanes…while they are searching the shoulder…and all they found were empty bottles/cans of alcohol and maybe empty bags of chips… but they were looking for WATER BOTTLES~!!!! Renee was given water bottles~!!!

I am sure that it had to be unnerving to be so close to these moving vehicles going at least 65mph and thinking that some of those driving by may be under the influence. Then to go home and later find out about the postcard, would only be more disturbing~!!!
You are on the right track with “The Untouchables”…I was also told to watch the movie “Missing”… I heard that it mentions Chloride Az:)


One post I read

[Bluefox]

LetsBeConcerned, i've just had a sudden thought, can you remember where the link is for the guy in bed with LE there, the one throwing the money around? i can't find it!!:shrug:

[awakening2lite]

By the way I put Bat Boy in the search box and that was one of the sites that came up...This dude I'll bet gets his information from the internet...maybe even on the people he hunts down?:shrug:

But most likely he got the Bat Boy from on that magazine from a grocery store/gas station...It's like the star magazine ...Ok I know wisonsin gets them.I have read something like that but so what other state maybe get them? what I am saying if they area not in demand but only in the northern state he has been there or could still be.




Thanks for posting the info on the bat boy. At that site there is a link to the bat boy musical.

Eerie

Act two ends:

The cast, living and dead, turn and address the audience, delivering the final messages of the show. Bat Boy rises up and the show ends as the company tells the audience "don't deny your beast inside."

[awakening2lite]

Ok, this is probably really a wacky coincidence, but here goes.

ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_Boy#Adventures_of_Batboy

This is from Bat Boy's family tree:

Horace "Joe Ears" Boe (1890-1931) - Archibald's youngest son who left California at age thirteen, hopping an eastbound train to Chicago. Horace was shot dead in a shootout with famed federal agent Eliot Ness in 1931.


:shrug:

[awakening2lite]

http://www.danielamos.com/stunt/bbsp.html


Doesn't this look like it could have been the one used on the postcard?

[Kellapple]

I think that is so creepy. I suppose the card sender meant it to be. But still we have caves and we have bats, is there maybe a clue in a cave somewhere? Does this person know the area so well that he even knows which caves have bats.:shrug:

[awakening2lite]

I think that is so creepy. I suppose the card sender meant it to be. But still we have caves and we have bats, is there maybe a clue in a cave somewhere? Does this person know the area so well that he even knows which caves have bats.:shrug:


Hi Kellapple :seeya:

I agree, it is a very distrubing image.

There is no way of knowing if the person who sent the card knew about caves in the area, but it is a very interesting thought.

It does appear the person who sent the card might have some interest in the Bat Boy story, or at least, the musical.

As I previously posted, the family tree of the Bat Boy has them moving to California (where their appearance is more readily accepted), and then leaving California for West Virginia. In W Va a relative is killed by Elliot Ness and we are all familiar with the card signed, 'Elliot Ness'. (reference link in previous posts on thread)

Is it a coincidence? Or is it something more?

The musical (Bat Boy) cast includes the character of sheriff. That Sheriff seems to miss the point in the musical, too.

Is it a coincidence? Or is it something more?

Hmmmm......

and then the ominous closing to the musical "don't deny your beast inside"

chilling

The play is reported to have originated in the early '90's IIRC.

The the musical is reported to be performed in high schools, today. It would be interesting to find out if the local high schools perform this musical. Don't you think?

[LetsBeConcerned]

LetsBeConcerned, i've just had a sudden thought, can you remember where the link is for the guy in bed with LE there, the one throwing the money around? i can't find it!!:shrug:

Blue fox….

I believe that you are talking about the Orange County Sheriff /Coroner that was brought up on corruption charges~!!! He has also been brought down from his role in “home land security” I am still hoping that his role as “coroner” will be investigated~!!! The entire post is quoted below….


http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=9055929&postcount=492
That is where Renee's autopsy was done~!! After reading the quote below I couldn't bear to read the rest~!!!

The Orange County Coroner, Michael S. Carona has been indicted on corruption charges.
http://losangeles.fbi.gov/dojpressre...a103007usa.htm

http://www.lagunajournal.com/orange_...and_high_r.htm
“I write to each of you because I have nowhere to turn and I hope you can help me,” Hill wrote. “Mike Carona is an extremely dangerous man who hides his wickedness behind his badge . . .. I am not the only woman who has been victimized by this perverse individual. There are many others, including employees and wives and girlfriends of employees . . .. I know that as Carona continues to be exposed and the public sees him for what he truly is, he will go to any length to have me and other members of my family silenced.” “What else can I do?” she asked. “These people have already kicked down my door [to execute a search warrant], arrested me, and they won’t stop smearing me. It’s sick. I’m a victim here, but I’m going to defend myself.”

list OC
http://www.ocregister.com/section/sh...arona-1917053/

http://www.ocregister.com/news/caron...aramillo-haidl

http://www.ocsd.org/coroners/default.asp

[LetsBeConcerned]

You say the car was broke down....
What was wrong with her car? Was it fixed so she couldn't get to far away maybe?
Renee was trying to turn her car around when she got a hole in her oil pan. She then tried to walk back to town


I wonder if maybe she was going somewhere to get away from someone or to talk or tell somemone.
Renee was lost, and after I had gone up there I could see how. There were many freeway improvements that was going on at the time and somehow she had taken the wrong detour…

Does anyone know if she let anyone in as to where she was going?like a friend or parent.
She had previously called friends and told them that she was lost and was asking for directions home.

She obviuosly did not want to get in cars, with people but they did give her water..the water bottles where not found, so someone took them, so they would not find finger prints or DNA. Did they check her car for DNA

I don’t think any tests were done on the car, at least that I know of. At the same time the purse was found miles away(on a different road) and her body even more miles away~!!
************************************************** *****
LBC:
(I seem to recall that even their cell phones were out of area/service…not getting any reception…since the area is so remote.)

Remember the guy who siad that in that one L.W. web sight: The Dave/Doug
I wonder if she was into cult stuff or a group.
Maybe they don't want to be found or known about!
Obviously thay know a lot about the area.

Renee was NOT apart of any cult… I also don’t think that any photographer or teacher had anything to do with these postcards… The postcards are not what I would call “Artistic”

[Liam1306]

Did LE pull the cellphone tower capture records?

As far as the beer cutouts on the postcard, (A) natural cop - family member, (B) Milwaukees Best (refering to the LE officers whom released a teenager whom escaped from Dahmer back into his custody oand was later killed by Dahmer), or Keystone (as in Keystone Cops) - Your choice?

As far as the Batboy image on a LE uniform, is this a reference to the head LE as being, or living in the dark about (A) above.

Were there family members employed by this same LE org?

In a living/missing/deceased person LE investigation searchers are never restricted - by law enforcement, much less landowners.

Whom owns the land (same?) of each discovery location; it could be th same person.

Is this a continuing pattern, or is the restricted search location a professional dumping ground?

[LetsBeConcerned]

CrimeHunter….

As I believe the scenario of what happened goes like this… Thursday night... Renee had stopped by a highway road sign and called a friend asking which way to turn, she was on 395 going North coming up on a freeway junction near June Lake…. Renee was told “Your going the WRONG way” She needed to turn around. (she needed to be going south on the 395) Renee decided to get a hotel in June Lake… she had asked for friends to join her…. They had told her it is too far.

June Lake is 300 to 500 miles away from Los Angeles~!!! Far away from where her friends were from…

http://junelakeloop.org/location

The surveillance tape of the parking lot of the hotel shows Renee leaving by herself and no one else following her on Friday morning.

Renee would be seen 100 miles closer to Los Angeles (by herself) in the town of Independence. (still over 200 miles from home~!!!)

Renee would last be seen (by herself) trying to walk back to the town of Independence in Mazourka Canyon… Three hours away from Los Angeles.

As a family member, I am certain that Renee was not interested in any kind of cult.

Now if your asking if I think people of an a cult live out there, I think so, I have been told that they are a bit of nomads living without electricity etc… Rarely seen….

I hope that this answers some of your questions…. I am only trying add some facts to the mix…:seeya:

[PJC]

Crimehunter,
I am new here, but have been reading your posts and think you are headed in the right direction.

[Kellapple]

Letsbe, do you happen to know when the investigators decided this was not a crime? I mean how long after they found her? Also if you happen to know did the LE ever look at the post cards? There are so many good questions on these message boards and if there is no investigation we will never have answers. How frustrating for the family. :mad:

[LetsBeConcerned]

Letsbe, do you happen to know when the investigators decided this was not a crime? I mean how long after they found her? Also if you happen to know did the LE ever look at the post cards? There are so many good questions on these message boards and if there is no investigation we will never have answers. How frustrating for the family. :mad:

They had decided that her death was not a crime from the day that the found her~!! Telling us that she died from heat exposure. Then the report came out in December and the investigators had called a press conference…. the family had also called the investigators but they did not call the family back until 5 days later. It was at this point that the detective had revealed that they found drugs in Renee’s pants. Why wait 4 months to reveal that information to the family~? And why tell the press first~? None of the investigators has ever talked to Renee’s mother.

Here is a quote from the Coroner Brune in Inyo County printed in the Inyo Register. Dec. 2, 2006

“We kind of expected that” a drug overdose could have been the cause of death “from the get-go” Brune said, noting that the other likely possible cause of death would have been “hyperthermia and exposure.” But, Brune said, with the toxicology report in hand, it is a “proven fact” that Fox died of a drug overdose. http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=8789659&postcount=189


The postcards were turned over to the police, but we have not heard anything more since the detectives had also told Renee’s brother not to call back~!!! He was told that before we even had the funeral.

It makes you wonder if they ever investigated the postcards or anything else for that matter~? Why not talk to the imediate family~?

They had no problems talking to the brother before Renee's body was found~!!!!:confused:

[curiousfriend]

LBC is it true that the local LE has only released their info to Nae's ex or estranged husband? My other question will be PM'd to you

[curiousfriend]

Ive noticed while going through different sites that when people go hiking up in Inyo it is very common for them to fill in registers which are spontaneously placed cans with papers in them with names of whomever came across the can and signed the register and then put the can back for the next people to come along to fill out? I was wondering if maybe that has any . . .. towards the post cards

[curiousfriend]

What!? No more crime library after dec. 31? Why

[awakening2lite]

Happy Holidays, to you, Freshwater.

Thank you for the lovely invitation.

I'll be there!

[The R]

Hello All,

Just a quick question regarding the post cards.....

Can the statement "Bishop is a wonderful small town" be attributed to any LE official or other public official as a public statement? Maybe something that was said in a press conference? Anyone know?


Thanks.

ALLMO,
R

[curiousfriend]

http://www.mine-engineer.com/mining/mansonmine.htm

i did a search of keystone mine and this is what i found

[LetsBeConcerned]

Now that it has been confirmed that these boards are closing….

I would like to propose what everyone here would consider how you would categorize Renee’s Story…. It has been moved so very many times as the story kept changing as it first started out as…

A missing person (never considered a crime nor did they consider Renee to be in danger even though her purse was found in the road) & help for missing families

Sex crimes

Cold cases (even though it is not considered an open crime)

Mysterious deaths

And I am sure there is more….

I have already have become a member of this site http://helpfindthemissing.org/

How to start over again will interesting… I have been collecting all the news reports for a while now and have been transcribing for the longest time, I still don’t have all of them but do have most… my hands started cramping so started scanning them and posting them on the other board, in hopes that someone else could volunteer to start transcribing them and ultimately have a thread with the news in a timeline so everyone could understand how everything transpired.

There have been many sites about Renee, so many have moved or taken down…At least this time we have some warning so we can still keep in touch and be updated.

Any new links that come up can be posted here….

http://www.topix.net/forum/city/lone-pine-ca/TG5D9BLIF9IGRB1I1/p24

I am sure that Renee’s story will continue on 320Sycamore.com as soon as it is available.

There are very thought provoking questions here …. Not all can be answered, at least by me…. but worth throwing out there (and sometimes they come faster than I have the time to answer, so if I misses some, please forgive me)…maybe even more will take notice~!!!

I want to thank everyone here for taking such an interest into what really happened to Renee…Your support has been greatly appreciated~!!!

I been trying to copy all the threads on here which I counted five.

Renee Fox… Bones Identified as hers

Renee Fox…Fading from the media

Still Waiting for Test Results in Desert Deaths of Renee Fox & Shaleen Duckey…

Renee Fox… Dangers on the Road for a Single Woman

And of coarse this one “Calling All Profilers”

And there were still more on ctv message board that seem to have vanished~!!


Hopefully the change will be for the better and those the have not been able to register/login/ post will find it easier at the new sites as well as navigating.

As well as those who are new to this story can be better informed~!!

Even though this site may vanish… We are a tenacious group and we are willing to do what is necessary to keep this discussion going, Renee’s family and son, deserves some answers~!!!!

Thank you all~!!!!!

[LetsBeConcerned]

LBC...This case smells of murder BIG TIME!


'LETS Really be concerned ....no kidding either!



I just wonder if thats why they took the water bottles ..to not get a different drug test and not from hers? Makes sense doesn't it?

Only an opinion ...The facts are still my question!




"'LETS Really be concerned ....no kidding either!"

(I tried that an it said it was to long... before that I tried "Extremely Concerned") and I am not kidding either~!!!!!

:seeya:

[LetsBeConcerned]

LBC...This case smells of murder BIG TIME!


'LETS Really be concerned ....no kidding either!



I just wonder if thats why they took the water bottles ..to not get a different drug test and not from hers? Makes sense doesn't it?

Only an opinion ...The facts are still my question!




"'LETS Really be concerned ....no kidding either!"

(I tried that an it said it was to long... I also tried "Extremely Concerned") and I am not kidding either~!!!!!

:seeya:

[Bluefox]

Sad to hear that CL is closing, but i will be there on the new site. Renee and Shaleen seem to have taken hold on me, and i for one won't forget them and yes their story must be continued, and be a beacon for all such deaths!

[Kellapple]

Crimehunter: You are really into this mystery, I hope to see you on the new message boards. This one (with the post cards) has my attention too. I think (IMO) that there is a message in those post cards.

[curiousfriend]

I found this interesting about the post cards - I looked up keystone on google and it brought me to a site about "Keystone Mine" in the Chloride District of the Sierras, (keystone beer, chloride city - front of the first post card), then when reading up on that mine it was formely known as the Manson Mine.----- I think I remember someone stating on here that Elliot Ness was involved with the arrest of Manson in Independence!? What Manson had his "girls" do in these mines is very interesting if looking at the situation with Nae. Ill find the link - I'm on a different computer than the one I normally use so I don't have it saved

[cabojenn]

The family has been unsuccessful in obtaining the actual autopsy report. What they do have is a "coroners report" from the Inyo County Coroner. That particular report is very vague, and is primarily a list of check boxes, with very little information. The narrative of the coroner's report is very vague as well, not describing the scene where Renee was found in detail. He did not mention that her arms were crossed, only that a pair of outer short was found 100' east of the body. There was no mention of her shirt, or panties, or shoes, or cap....nothing. The ICSO will not release copies of their case file, so the family is not getting any detailed information. Why? We have not seen detailed information because last I knew, according to LE, the case is not officially closed

When a body has been exposed to the elements and advanced decomposition takes place, blood is not readily available in many cases. However, in this case, apparently blood was the substance analyzed to determine the toxicology, according to the coroners report. That still doesn't mean the amount of substance found in Rene's system was the cause of death, it is the cause the coroner listed, because it is convenient. It is a matter of professional opinion. I think the doctor who actually conducted the autopsy ought to be the opinion the family is concerned about. Until they can get a copy of that document, they are still stuck with the coroner's opinion. During the press conference, the one where LE announced the cause of my cousins death to the media instead of her FAMILY :cuss: they claimed she ingested it and that it was the most lethal method of using that drug. Anyone that knows how to Google can easily research for themselves that ingesting it is the least lethal way. So that right there should tell you they either have no clue what they are talking about or think everyone else is stupid.[/COLOR]

The cause of death during a drug overdose with stimulants such as amphetamine/methamphetamine, is stroke and/or heart failure. With amphetamine/methamphetamine, the heart rate increases causing what is known as tachycardia. It is painful, and panic is associated with it. I have personally investigated unattended deaths where the deceased removed clothing during a heart attack/stroke. The associated panic causes a claustrophobic reaction, and victims sometimes remove restrictive clothing. I have never seen a victim cross their arms across their chest in any of these cases, nor have I seen it in a murder unless the body was posed. Try lying down, and holding your arms crossed over your chest. They will not stay in place. the hands will rest on the sides because the elbows will come to rest on the floor (ground). I don't know if her hands were crossed over her stomach, her chest, or the elbows resting on the ground. It will make a difference. At this point, I would not trust any written report by any of the officers at the scene. Photographs will tell the truth. [COLOR="darkorchid"]I concur. If anything, she would have been in a fetal position, not they way LE described her death in the press conference. They made it sound as though she DID corss her arms over her chest, and simply went to sleep with-in about 20 minutes of ingesting the drug. It would take a lot longer than that for the drug to really take effect. Again, they do not seem to know what they are talking about.

In Renee's case, there was no mention of a bra being worn, or found at the scene, nor were there any panties. Was she wearing either one? No one knows. What is known is that shorts is all that was found. Could she have been suffering from tachycardia, associated with meth, and heat stroke? It's possible, but that is a violent death. It is not a "lay down, cross your arms over your chest and go to sleep" scenario. I'm not ready to accept the coroner's opinion of accidental overdose. I agree, FD, it seems staged to me, too.Renee was last seen wearing capri pants. She may not have been wearing a bra because we have been told she was wearing a strappy shirt.

Renee was not involved in a cult. She was not up there to bust anyone. Ever have a bad day and feel like getting in your car to drive off your stress? It seems that is all Renee was doing, and she just drove too far. There are a few alleged eye witness accounts of her that have not been mentioned in this thread. For one, a man claims to have seen her crying on the court house steps. She was NOT there for court and we will never know why she was crying, though knowing her, I can guess a few things that I doubt have anything to do with her death. I do not know if it was the same man, or a different one, but she was also seen changing her clothes in the back of her car, supposedly. This all would have happened before she made the wrong turn into the canyon.

Renee was not there to commit suicide. She wrote everything down, and there would have been a letter, or at least notes to herself. She wrote a lot of things down those last few days, including a record of how many times she tried to call her son. As far as whether or not she knew anyone up there, the only person I can think of was her father-in-law that lives over in Bakersfield. I doubt he knew she was in Inyo and I really do not think she would have called him.

I really miss her.

[cabojenn]

Renee was last seen wearing capri pants. She may not have been wearing a bra because we have been told she was wearing a strappy shirt.

Renee was not involved in a cult.


snipped myself for length. Standing corrected on the description of her pants. Capri's are usually a bit tight...they were described as being baggy. So maybe we could call them cargo pants? Either way, they were 3/4-ish in length. Not shorts, not pants, but in between.

[cabojenn]

just to let you guys know the items on the postcard were found around where they found her car broken down.

In the area, meaning anywhere along Mazourka Canyon? Yes.

Near her car? No.

[Mishell1383]

I think that the first postcard definitely shows that whoever sent this had to know where Renee was and probably had something to do with it. Considering the items found nearby were pasted on the postcard. I think it's also a taunt but, I don't understand the "elusive" batboy reference or Elliot Ness..... Maybe their a reference to this person thinking that he's just as "untouchable" as Elliot Ness and as elusive as batboy.
My first thought was they were making fun of the cops. Placing Batboys head on a uniformed police officer's body with a bag of chips. Might as well been a donut.... The alcohol I don't understand. I'm going to keep reading.

[cabojenn]

You know what...Someone could try something.
Write a letter in the newspaper leave a message at the store boards of something outrages about Bishop and see if someone write back saying: Bishop is a good town! In-fact maybe some type of statagee...If this person is still around maybe someone can bring him out of the forest like in the hunt!I would ask help with police, they would be smarter with that hunting game.
There must be other ways to see if a person response.

************************************************** ******************
Renee was not there to commit suicide. She wrote everything down, and there would have been a letter, or at least notes to herself. She wrote a lot of things down those last few days, including a record of how many times she tried to call her son. As far as whether or not she knew anyone up there, the only person I can think of was her father-in-law that lives over in Bakersfield. I doubt he knew she was in Inyo and I really do not think she would have called him

Bells Ringing here!!!

Who else knew of her letters she wrote about her doings ect. Maybe they did not want anyone to read certain things, so they killed her.And if you ask me..IF she kept a record of everything she did, she either was being stalked or someone of her past threatened her life...I know about that type of thing and I would do the same thing if this was true! So I will bet....It is true!
Now! Who hated her? What was it she was hiding or trying to keep safe...HER SON MAYBE?You said she was trying to call or visit her son....I will bet this is surrounds her son maybe.Sometimes it is a blood thing birth as in rights ect...who will get what and what someone does not want you to receive.
Maybe I am writing a whole new theorey..but it is worth checking.

(You see that on crime shows..killing the the person if she tries to get the son back ect.....which could mean a family member who done it or who hired someone else to do the crime!)


************************************************** *******************

While I like your thinking, I am very sure her son had nothing to do with this. Her estranged husband really, truly, isn't the type. I feel, in my heart, Renee did not die because of something to do with friends or family. Few knew she was even away from home. Renee was not hiding. She simply got in her car, and starting driving possibly because she felt like it until she realized she was pretty far from home.

[Liam1306]

"Bishop is a wonderful small town" and "Elliott Ness sounds like an inside family/LE profession joke.

What are the chances that LE, or a member of their family could have mistaken the (suicide) victim as just another "throw away" hippie girl wandering around.

If her death was in close proximity to the "alleged ingestion of controlled substances" then they could remain in evidence.

Without an autopsy - her parents (not her estranged husband) can have her remains legally exhumed and autopsied - and until that time there is only speculation.

What is the professional history of this LE organization's members? Are they from the area, or "quit, or be fired" from other departments?

[aradarlove]

what i may add right now is that with out a doubt, she would of gotten into a vehicle if ordered to do so by a law enforcement officer in a marked police car, or if someone flashed her a real-fake police badge. that brings the point about ness. he was always shown as a smarter then the average copper. after i read all four pages, and study the cards somemore, and read more about her and the case, i will add more thoughts.

[curiousfriend]

Milwaukee Mine now better well known as Mollie Gibson Mine, Inyo County
Keystone Mine = Reward Mine or Manson Mine
Coincide with the beers on pc1

[curiousfriend]

http://www.death-valley.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=423&sid=5e2507b671b892b2b29138623775e746

[curiousfriend]

Wow this forum went silent!!!:rose:

[awakening2lite]

http://www.death-valley.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=423&sid=5e2507b671b892b2b29138623775e746

Great Find!
Thanks for posting the link, curiousfriend! It's one of the best reads, on the subject of mines and history of the area. It was very interesting and informative, to say the least.

[curiousfriend]

Thank You! I thought it was worth looking at!

[cabojenn]

Wow this forum went silent!!!:rose:

Maybe it is the holidays??? I think Renee would understand. After all, she always made sure to visit with everyone.:rose:

[longrider]

Can you update me on who Renee is please, when did she disappear, how long till she was found, and when exactly each postcard was recieved?
thank you.

Am i to understand that on the first card, someone has forged the good name of Elliot Ness? Strange indeed! if so.

Looking at the second card, it's definitely not too old, as it has the modern bar code. There's not a single reason i can think of that someone would use Elliot's name at all hmmmmmmmmmm food for thought. Even so there are ways to trace the cards i'm sure.

Someone is playing a game, seeking attention? For what i wonder, and how will it end. Not a child, the writing is adult, and with some education.

Eliot Ness, the federal agent, spelled his name with only one 'L'. Who is to say, it is a forgery? Any one could be named Elliot Ness and if so, he signed his real name, it is not a forgery.

[curious51]

:seeya:

I like to try and fit the puzzle pieces together when I hear of a case.

Sometimes I get it right sometimes I do not..


:patriot:
www.JusticeForUs.org, click on Internet Links #558723957
www.realcrimes.com, scroll to Joshua Robinson, Higlighted areas are excerpts from files.
Contact me: greeneyedlov@yahoo.com

[Bluefox]

longrider, i'm not sure i understand what you're saying here. Anyone could be called Elliot (Eliot) Ness? how many are in the phone book? If it were his real name, would he be signing his real name? i very much doubt it.

I'ts not a forgery? So Eliot Ness is alive and well? Sorry but your post is confusing!

[longrider]

What's confusing? Are you saying there is only one Eliot Ness, there is no one else by that name?

[Ron]

Just now l have heard of this case .

I first noticed the liquor bottles and then Elliot Ness . It made me remember that Mr Ness stopped booze from being sold . Also that perhaps the culprit works in a liquor store and he does not sell to minors.

Also she may have known her murderer .

It seems she was forced into the vehicle even though she knew the person . It seems she hung onto her wallet and deliberately dropped it as she was forced into the vehicle .

I will take a closer look at this case tomorrow.


Ron

[Ron]

This has , no doubt been covered but the word 'regiister'' is spelled two different ways on each post carrd suggesting something..

[Ron]

Also the postal codes [ zip codes] are different..

[LetsBeConcerned]

Just now l have heard of this case .

I first noticed the liquor bottles and then Elliot Ness . It made me remember that Mr Ness stopped booze from being sold . Also that perhaps the culprit works in a liquor store and he does not sell to minors.

Also she may have known her murderer .

It seems she was forced into the vehicle even though she knew the person . It seems she hung onto her wallet and deliberately dropped it as she was forced into the vehicle .

I will take a closer look at this case tomorrow.


Ron

Welcome to the board ~!!

That is some interesting theories that you have come up with... Elliot Ness was a prohibition agent in the Treasury Department in the 1920's

Here is a link about Elliot Ness at the FBI website...
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/jan07/ness010307.htm

It was her wallet that gave her an Identity. That was how the police were able to determine who this missing person was.
Also the postal codes [ zip codes] are different..

Both zip codes are printed in the paper. I don't know much about the post office but do find it strange that the same address could have 2 different zip codes.


This case could use all the help it can get~!!!
:seeya: :seeya: :seeya:

[Ron]

....:seeya:



Why do you feel she was murdered,, the post cards ?

[Ron]

Was the autopsy fine details released ...

[Ron]

Hi

It seems somehow drugs play into this . Perhaps she ran out and was getting more,, maybe not but she had enough money on her for buying drugs at one point that day . Those kind of drugs come wrapped and if she ingested all of it she would need to get or plan to get more rather than
' go to sleep ' in the 'bush' and wake up with withdrawal and no drugs


If she ran out of such an addicting 'stay awake' drug and had 900 dollars on her would she really go to sleep like that or get more drugs ..

If , for whatever reason,,,,when her drug contact arrived out there she was surprised that the ''drug dealer'' had another person in the vehicle whom she owed 'drug money' to and put her into a panic as they told her to ,, ''get in the car'' and as she did she dropped her wallet to be retrieved by her later ..


Perhaps she had arranged to meet and pay cash for the drugs,,as previously arranged but instead the dealer brings the other with him as they know she has 'money for drugs'' on her . When the dealer pulls up she sees the other dealer in the car ,realises it and slips the wallet on the ground.
She is ,with forceful persuasion now in their Carr to buy drugs ,,,,

'with no money' and infuriating them even more ,,,,however they offer her one free 'hit' on her now ''extended drug credit '' and she states,,,,

'' make it a good one'' ,,which they did and it 'accidentally' overdosed her possibly killing her right then or putting her comatose .

Now the dealers had their hands full and decided to lay her in the bush as they did .
No murder perhaps but a drug deal 'gone very wrong' .

If she bought and ingested some and laid down in the bush ,as she was found ,she would have had more drugs on her person rather than none.

--->I am not in the capacity to do murder investigations but hope this theory offers any help at all as to what did happen to this precious young lady.

What a sad turn of events for young Renee,, so sad..

Sincerely,

Ron .

[ok0510]

Enjoy yourself… and let me know what you come up with~!!! Buy Cheap World of Warcraft Gold (http://www.world-warcraft-gold.org)WOW Gold (http://www.buy-wow-gold.org.cn)cheapest wow gold (http://www.bankofwow.com)WOW Gold (http://www.gameusd.com)Buy WOW Gold (http://www.buy-wow-gold.org.cn)


I will answer the rest of these post later this weekend…
:seeya:

I think that the first postcard definitely shows that whoever sent this had to know where Renee was and probably had something to do with it. Considering the items found nearby were pasted on the postcard. I think it's also a taunt but, I don't understand the "elusive" batboy reference or Elliot Ness..... Maybe their a reference to this person thinking that he's just as "untouchable" as Elliot Ness and as elusive as batboy.

[Ron]

ok0510,,

you said..


''''' I think that the first postcard definitely shows that whoever sent this had to know where Renee was and probably had something to do with it


''''''Considering the items found nearby were pasted on the postcard. ''''

This case is new to me ..would you explain the above line for me,, thanks

[Ron]

Maybe Renee phoned someone from her home or near home and the friend//dealer agreed to meet her ''halfway'' ..

This means that the distance from her house to where her or her car was found is the same distance from her friend//dealer was living ,,,to her/car,,, also meaning the person she met out there lived the same distance as her,,but in the opposite direction from where her or her car was found..

Justice for Renee Fox is due .

[LetsBeConcerned]

Hi

It seems somehow drugs play into this . Perhaps she ran out and was getting more,, maybe not but she had enough money on her for buying drugs at one point that day . Those kind of drugs come wrapped and if she ingested all of it she would need to get or plan to get more rather than
' go to sleep ' in the 'bush' and wake up with withdrawal and no drugs


If she ran out of such an addicting 'stay awake' drug and had 900 dollars on her would she really go to sleep like that or get more drugs ..

If , for whatever reason,,,,when her drug contact arrived out there she was surprised that the ''drug dealer'' had another person in the vehicle whom she owed 'drug money' to and put her into a panic as they told her to ,, ''get in the car'' and as she did she dropped her wallet to be retrieved by her later ..


Perhaps she had arranged to meet and pay cash for the drugs,,as previously arranged but instead the dealer brings the other with him as they know she has 'money for drugs'' on her . When the dealer pulls up she sees the other dealer in the car ,realises it and slips the wallet on the ground.
She is ,with forceful persuasion now in their Carr to buy drugs ,,,,

'with no money' and infuriating them even more ,,,,however they offer her one free 'hit' on her now ''extended drug credit '' and she states,,,,

'' make it a good one'' ,,which they did and it 'accidentally' overdosed her possibly killing her right then or putting her comatose .

Now the dealers had their hands full and decided to lay her in the bush as they did .
No murder perhaps but a drug deal 'gone very wrong' .

If she bought and ingested some and laid down in the bush ,as she was found ,she would have had more drugs on her person rather than none.

--->I am not in the capacity to do murder investigations but hope this theory offers any help at all as to what did happen to this precious young lady.

What a sad turn of events for young Renee,, so sad..

Sincerely,

Ron .


Hi Ron,

(I first want to apologize for taking so long to reply. I had written this reply out and then forgot where I had filed it and didn’t want to do a re-write. Well I found it~!!)


Renee did do drugs, in 2005 for a short time (only for a few months). 2006 was going to be a new year and Renee was going to stay clean and had even gone in for tests to prove she was clean.

On June 22, 2006 Renee had called a friend to say she would be home shortly but was at a freeway junction and needed to know which one to take. That is when Renee found out that she was farther away from home than she thought. Renee said that she wanted to get a hotel and asked for her friend to meet her there. The friend said that it is to far and to come home. It was getting dark at the time. The Highway that she would have had to drive down, had NO LIGHTING~!!! This was a desolate area that would take her 4 hours to get home.

I had gone up to this hotel and I don’t think I would have driven back home at night either. I did talk to the clerk that did see Renee leave, the following morning and she did say that Renee left alone.

I had also called some people that had done the same or similar drugs in their past and had become rehab counselors etc…, I had asked if they thought Renee was up their to do drugs~?? They said “No~!!” They said that if Renee were there to do drugs she would have been to paranoid to leave the hotel, she also would have never left her car. She would have the drugs delivered to her. She had the money ~!!!!

Renee had money the whole time. Even AFTER she “lost” her purse. This purse was special to her. She had gone to a concert and met the singer and had him “sign her purse”. She would have never parted with that purse. Also the cash was not found in her wallet but hidden in her purse. Her I.D. was in her wallet.

All the money that Renee had, came from a check that she cashed, she did not have a bank account at the time. They did find thousands of dollars in her pants that did seem to “grow legs” and make it closer to Town than Renee did.

About the time Renee disappeared, she was planning on finding an apartment.

June Lake, where the Hotel was, is somewhere about an hour away from Mazourka Cyn. (Mazourka is closer to her home). Renee was headed home.

I have also been up to Mazourka Cyn.

I could not direct anyone for a good meeting place, even for someone that I did know that also was familiar with the area. There aren’t any addresses and few landmarks.

When we, as a family, went up there to help with the search, as well as to understand what happened…. The search team was also told to stay out of Mazourka…. The family agreed to meet on a later day… at a different area,.. and then caravan up Mazourka.



If you believe that she died within minutes of a drug overdose, …THEN… were are her clothes, shoes, etc…

Why didn’t they find her within the days of searching ~?? Why was the area that she was found in and the most relatively flat area closer to town ONLY searched by air, and that the helicopter guy said, “If there was so much as a water bottle out there I would have found it”…Yet the authorities refused to let anyone search by ground.


Let me add more questions…

Was Renee there the whole time~?

Was the area that she was found in, part of the search area~? If not, WHY NOT~???

Interviews with the Authorities on the day that Renee was found are quite confusing.

Renee was found between the city and the mountain…Renee was last seen walking on the other side of the mountain.

Why didn’t they concentrate the search closer to the city~?

Why was there NOT an official ground search on the “valley floor” where she was found(from time that she went missing)~?:cuss:

Then you have her pants that were found closer to the city.:cool:

Just way too many questions and I am sure that there are more~!!!!

But Please Keep Asking~!!!

Thank you So Very Much for Taking an Interest in this Case~!!!

:seeya: :seeya:

[LetsBeConcerned]

ok0510,,

you said..


''''' I think that the first postcard definitely shows that whoever sent this had to know where Renee was and probably had something to do with it


''''''Considering the items found nearby were pasted on the postcard. ''''

This case is new to me ..would you explain the above line for me,, thanks



Hi Ron,


ok0510 simply plagiarized a few posts from the first page of this board as well as adding a sales pitch in there, I guess~?? :shrug:

He used post # 9 of mine and then post #8 from JoeMama82

Enjoy yourself… and let me know what you come up with~!!!

I will answer the rest of these post later this weekend…
:seeya:



I think that the first postcard definitely shows that whoever sent this had to know where Renee was and probably had something to do with it. Considering the items found nearby were pasted on the postcard. I think it's also a taunt but, I don't understand the "elusive" batboy reference or Elliot Ness..... Maybe their a reference to this person thinking that he's just as "untouchable" as Elliot Ness and as elusive as batboy.


My answer was in post #12

I by no means want to argue those statements but have to question the word “nearby” That information(posted) is second to third hand (I do respect the person that posted it)… I do want clear up this misunderstanding…if the original source is of the search on Saturday, July 29, 2006… I do believe that those items would have been found… But that search was on Highway 395 near Manzanar Reward Road…Renee was last seen in Mazourka Canyon (2 different roads)… I am not sure where those items were found.(but believe it was on 395) which is very likely to be as far as 20 miles from where Renee was last seen~!!!!! Which makes “nearby” a relative term.

Another thing is… It was “the authorities” that forbade these searchers from searching Mazourka Canyon… What were they afraid of that these searchers were going to find~!!!

I also want to add that I don’t think that anyone on the search was aware of the postcard that was sent to the newspaper, which was only the day before. I seem to recall that even their cell phones were out of area/service…not getting any reception…since the area is so remote.

Something else, that I would like to add, …. Those that were on the search were looking for anything as small as an earring~!! Anything that might be personal and belonging to Renee~!!! And yet something so impersonal as a water bottle…

YET~!!!! Here they were …on a MAIN Highway… with cars & trucks speeding by with only 2 lanes…while they are searching the shoulder…and all they found were empty bottles/cans of alcohol and maybe empty bags of chips… but they were looking for WATER BOTTLES~!!!! Renee was given water bottles~!!!

I am sure that it had to be unnerving to be so close to these moving vehicles going at least 65mph and thinking that some of those driving by may be under the influence. Then to go home and later find out about the postcard, would only be more disturbing~!!!

You are on the right track with “The Untouchables”…I was also told to watch the movie “Missing”… I heard that it mentions Chloride Az:)

I can answer the next post later as I have to find some pictures of the area that will explain some things.

:seeya:

[Ron]

Hi .

You stated ,,,

'' Another thing is… It was “the authorities” that forbade these searchers from searching Mazourka Canyon… What were they afraid of that these searchers were going to find~!!! ''
----------------------------

---> It surely must be difficult to have a loved one die , and not know what happened . Life is already difficult enough without such hurt .

Just by chance recently l learned of Renee and read the posts here and tried to help if l can .

In that respect what do you mean exactly by your words above . Surely the Mazourka Canyon Authorities do care as do all of us .

[Zold1]

I will give it a go: This person intends to strike again in this wonderful small town of Bishop. They wear a uniform; are posing as something they are not whether that be a cop security guard or whatnot. They drink too much and eat too many potato chips and have a beer gut; they are over weight. Clearly it's "your choice" whether you go after one of your own or speak out. Or it's "your choice" to do what you do or it's "your choice" to drink to excess.
Because of the scary face; he likes to make his victims look this way. He gets off on it. Fear.

*armchair is getting cold so now I have to go back to it*
:eek:

This is an astounding analogy. ITA. The postcard obviously shows an unusual amount of alcholic beverages which could be attached to a person who clearly drinks to excess. The person is like the BTK Killer, cruel and inhuman, alien so to speak. That person is some type of law enforcement officer or security guard, ranger. After reading Post 470 I matched the phone number to the numbered chapters of the book for Elliot Ness (Police Officer) on the right hand side and this is what I got.

5. The boy scout.
2. Early Years
0. (OP)
4. After Chicago
5. The boy scout
7. A whores death
3. The untouchables
0. (Op)
0. (Op)
8. Internal Affairs

I also noted the 1st post card to be subdued handwriting, but look closely at the 2nd post card that is disturbed and appears to be yelling. Clearly a stressed out individual. The question is why, but I suspect it is because no one had found the killer yet even after the clues. I don't quite get the building in the background, it appears to be a barn type building. Could it be the RR Museum the card was purchased? The Alabama Hills and Lone Pines are some clue for location of bodies that were dumped.

So much for my opinion. :chicken:

It was strange the Manson family was mentioned because I watched some kind of show with one eye open concerning a sheriff digging for more bodies at that ranch and he said they only worked in the day time because they were afraid to be there at night?!? That was really strange so the place must be spooky as heck.

[Zold1]

Hi .

You stated ,,,

'' Another thing is… It was “the authorities” that forbade these searchers from searching Mazourka Canyon… What were they afraid of that these searchers were going to find~!!! ''
----------------------------

---> It surely must be difficult to have a loved one die , and not know what happened . Life is already difficult enough without such hurt .

Just by chance recently l learned of Renee and read the posts here and tried to help if l can .

In that respect what do you mean exactly by your words above . Surely the Mazourka Canyon Authorities do care as do all of us .


Did I miss it or does anyone know what profession the x-husband is in?

[Zold1]

The longer I think about these post cards, the more I feel that the sender wants you to contact "him". (I think the sender is a middle aged male. The cursive is sloppy, like he really never writes. He prints.) He left you a bogus phone number as a message to "call". The way to call is through the Inyo Register with a personal ad. Give it a try, you've nothing to lose. I think he is a local resident, or even an employee of either the forest service, or the sheriffs department. That's why he wants to remain anonymous. He is afraid. Since the criticism seems to be toward the Sheriffs Dept., my guess is he is associated with that agency in some way. Perhaps a volunteer?

I agree that person is afraid. They certainly know something none of us have touched on yet. Almost like they have a Godfather who lives in Injo.

[LetsBeConcerned]

Hi .

You stated ,,,

'' Another thing is… It was “the authorities” that forbade these searchers from searching Mazourka Canyon… What were they afraid of that these searchers were going to find~!!! ''
----------------------------

---> It surely must be difficult to have a loved one die , and not know what happened . Life is already difficult enough without such hurt .

Just by chance recently l learned of Renee and read the posts here and tried to help if l can .

In that respect what do you mean exactly by your words above . Surely the Mazourka Canyon Authorities do care as do all of us .

Renee was last seen on Saturday, June 24, 2006, by different groups of people. These people reported what they saw to the authorities. These people thought that the Authorities would go and check on this woman whom seemed unprepared for the desert conditions. No water with her other than what the good Samaritans had given to Renee.

NONE of the authorities went up the canyon until Sunday when another group found her purse, hair clip, hat etc…. laying in the road. YES~!!! The Authorities waited 24 hours before going to check on Renee.

When the search was called off, the family called in EquuSearch. Gene was the Director of that search.

Bedell was the lead Detective for Renee’s Case.

Here is a post from Gene.
I have just caught up on the posts since December and noticed several that have asked if we actually did photograph the area where Renee was found. I can assure, had we photographed that area, we would have found her. Sadly, neither myself or Mike (the pilot with the full size aircraft) took any of that area.

I've stated before, but I'll state again. Mr. Bedell gave me a direct order to not search the canyon or the approaches to it. I asked him THREE times to give me a firm directive, and he did so. There are many posters here that participated in the search I did direct through Texas Equusearch and they can attest that we performed an orderly and thorough search of the area from the highway to approximately 100 yards from the road. This effort covered approximately 5 miles (from Manzanars Reward toward Independence) in the heat of July. This is typical protocol for a TES search. Members of the advance team will also attest that my first order of search was to be the canyon road and the canyon approaches. The drone would have been use to photograph either side of the road from the pavement end to the canyon approach. That did not happen.

As for the "stomping around destroying evidence", the search volunteers will also attest that I gave them very specific instructions on preserving ANYTHING that could be evidence in the case. Again, TES search protocol.

Sadly, I have to admit that I stopped several times at the mining structure on the right of the road several times to study maps and plan my search. I was very likely within 100 yards of her. The prevailing winds were from the south, away from the road and us. Had the wind been in the other direction, I feel sure I would have detected that scent.

I have many personal "woulda, coulda, shoulda's" on my own participation in this case. It would not have changed to outcome any and many questions would remain. I can only take comfort in the fact that someone did complete the mission we started out on and finally brought Renee home.

My prayers are with Renee's family - they are good people just searching for the truth.

Gene

[Ron]

Hi LetsBeConcerned .

Thank you for your post .
--------
"Sadly, I have to admit that I stopped several times at the mining structure on the right of the road several times to study maps and plan my search. I was very likely within 100 yards of her. The prevailing winds were from the south, away from the road and us. Had the wind been in the other direction, I feel sure I would have detected that scent."
--------

In respect to the above paragraph whatever , l feel the honesty is within due respect and is worthy of that and more .

The question is not in the search , with all due respect and is somewhere else .

[Ron]

..EDITED..
-----------------------------------------
---> ...'' July 7, 2006

INDEPENDENCE,Calif. (Crime Library) — Investigators probing the disappearance of Renee Fox say they now believe that the 25-year-old divorced mother, student and sometime-drug abuser stumbled out of the high desert near Independence where her abandoned car and cash-filled pocketbook were found 12 days ago, and could be anywhere from Palm Springs to Oregon.

"We have certain reports and we're trying to confirm another report that she made it out to Highway 395," said Inyo County Sheriff's Investigator Paul Bedell. "It sounds like we have a witness who can place her out there that afternoon... and at this point it looks like we've got her out of the canyon and onto the highway."


"If that's the case," Bedell said. "She could be anywhere." ...''.<---

-----------------------------------------------

Hi LetsBeConcerned .

With respect to Renee l need to refer to this as 'this case' because whatever .

So ,,, this 'case' seems to go nowhere yet is on a direct path somewhere . Perhaps we all here who read this etc., can help . My idea is to take another look at this from another angle and we must start somewhere .

In that respect let's start at what the Authorities were thinking and plotting and doing , as reported in the News Releases etc ,before Renee was found , in their honest effort to find Renee. If perhaps we can see a sequence of events in the 'behaviour' , sort of ,of these reports of individual reports we may find a path that not only is there but is still on it's path now .

That means we read the words in the News Releases by the Authorities before Renee was found and think of what 'they' were thinking when and as they gave their reports 'live' while Renee was still missing and not found yet .

Today we can also read what was said and reported after Renee was found , and in an unusual concept , we , after first recognizing the 'pre Renee' sequences or paths , we then see if any of those 'paths' continue 'post Renee' or after Renee was found .

The application requires research and reading of all the 'official' News on this case and 'their' thoughts of what 'they' thought of what happened to Renee and what 'they' were going to do about it , and their search plans of course we can read , in sequence .... and see if 'they' carried out their planned choreographed searches ,, or if some of the choreographed searches 'changed' along the way and why ,,,altering the sequence or path .

Perhaps this application is not for everyone and is complicated to say the least , but perhaps we can all try it and see if it leads to Justice for Renee Fox and her family and loved ones .

l will post the 'pre-Renee' official News Releases here that l feel , or can see a sequence in play, and then l will post the 'post Renee' News Releases and we will see the difference ,, in them.

[Ron]

The 'clip' below has come to me by 'chance' or say random and l put it here to be evaluated later when we have enough of them to do what we are doing . Any input is most welcome and all are important at this point .
----------

---> '' Mahaney, with her husband at the lead of a convoy of three vehicles, said they slowed down as they approached something in the road. It turned out to be Fox, who was lying down “across the road,” Mahaney said in an earlier interview with The Inyo Register. As the vehicles approached her, she got up and brushed herself off, and began walking up the road, east, away from Independence. “She looked embarrassed, like she got caught,” Mahaney said. “She just got up, brushed herself off” and started walking up the canyon. '' <---

------------

[Ron]

-----------------------------------------------
---> '' SOMES: She was recently going through a divorce and her ex-husband got custody of the child, my cousin, and that’s probably where she was kind of trying to go off maybe and think about it.”<---
======================================




-------------------------------------------------
---> '' ... the last phone call she made was to her boyfriend asking directions and also asking that he meet her in the vicinity. he refused saying it was too far to drive. ... '' <---
====================================

[Ron]

---> '' ...on Thursday the 24th is the last time she spoke with her son.''<---

[Ron]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

--->'' ...The postmark is July 27. She was found Aug. 10th... '' <---
================================================== =====

[Ron]

--------------------------------------------------

---> ''.. in refrence to the case 1 simple comment (the offroaders that seen her walking and gave her water should of knowen she was in trouble and radio POLICE/RANGER and stade with her till help arived i would of.. '' <---
============================================

[Ron]

..EDITED..

-------------------------------------------------
---> '' ... OWENS VALLEY, June 30, 2006 -- A desperate search is underway for a missing Simi Valley woman who vanished nearly a week ago.

Using her wallet, search dogs picked up her scent and followed it to a mine shaft, where the scent disappeared. ...'' <---
====================================

-----------------------------------------------

---> '' ... Authorities ended their search Wednesday night for a 25-year-old Simi Valley woman who has been missing since Saturday....''< ---
==========================================

[Ron]

---------------------------------------

---> '' ...Using her wallet, search dogs picked up her scent and followed it to a mine shaft, where the scent disappeared. ...'' <---
==================================================


----------------------------------------

---> '' ...I was very likely within 100 yards of her. The prevailing winds were from the south, away from the road and us. Had the wind been in the other direction, I feel sure I would have detected that scent." ...<---
=================================================

Hi , LetsBeConcerned.
It is surely break time for me but l will surely be back and continue with this,,, ''first -half'' .

[Ron]

------------------------------------------------

--->'' Officials found that a dispatcher had failed to pass on critical information about a woman wandering around the Mazourka Canyon area. So, the search started later than it would have.'' <---

==========================================

[Ron]

----------------------------------------------------------------

---> ''...My eyes fill with tears as I think of a little boy who lost the most important part of his life...his mommy. May God bless his heart and always watch over him. I love you and will never forget you--rest peacefully...

"Lord, you said that once I decided to follow you, you'd walk with me all the way. But I have noticed that during the most troublesome times of my life, there is only one set of footprints. I don't understand why, when I needed you the most you left me."

Lord replied, "My precious child, I love you and would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you saw only one set of footprints, it was then that I carried you." ...''<---

==============================================

[Ron]

If l am not allowed to post the link to the News Video below due to regulations etc , l apologize . Enlarge it for best result.


http://cbs2.com/video/?id=21263@kcbs.dayport.com&cid=71

[Ron]

-----------------------------------------------
---> ''Fox recently received a fairly large check, a payout for a nerve injury she had sustained in her hands after seven years of typing at a nearby insurance firm where she had worked since graduating high school. Because she did not have a checking account, she stuffed a large amount of the cash into her pocketbook and 11 days ago, headed toward the desert.''<---
===============================

--------------------------------------------------

--->'' SOMES: You know I don't really know but that's really unusual for her to have that amount of money on her and be in an area like that.'' <---
========================

-------------------------------------
---> ''… $900. in her purse,... $800. in her car… and $4,700. in her pants

Her pants are the only article of clothing that has been found....'' <---
================================================== ========

-------------------------------------------
--->'' In her car they did find her cell phone, which family members have said was very odd.'' <---
=================================

---------------------------------------------

---> ''What's more, the battery on her cell phone was dead,...''<---
=====================================

[Ron]

Hi LetsBeConcerned .

The first half of this case -solving system is not concluded yet and of course more is to come asap .

The first half [my posts], starting at 188, just after your last post to me , is not in any order per say but they are connected by 'paths' sort of like energies and more than one and also more than one kind of energy and on a sequence in motion which is still in play but not yet recognized but is there and in time will show itself to me as they connect ..once when Renee became deceased [or found] ,and then again in the second half, after she was deceased [ or found], [ still to be posted by me] but with one energy less or one energy more in the second half when one or two of the paths from the first half of these different energies become in nexus again and in co-operation with the energies of the second half .

In the end of this unusual concept application only one path or energy will be left and this is what we are searching for and in another yet unusual concept.. it is will present as looking for me .

Again l repeat this is not to be comprehended by all but all can try to think it and work with me on it . .

TO BE CONTINUED,

Sincerely ,
Ron and Four Paws .

[Zold1]

Great Find!
Thanks for posting the link, curiousfriend! It's one of the best reads, on the subject of mines and history of the area. It was very interesting and informative, to say the least.

Hoo! That was good reading. Thanks curiousfriend! I've never given that area a 2nd thought after reading Bugliosi's book, Helter Skelter. Gooze Bomps, thats what!

[Zold1]

SNIP: IMO, the sender wanted to start a "conspiracy" theory at ICSO and the newspaper, plus he just might want to communicate with the family. I'm certain some of the locals had quite a hoot after the first card was received, and copied in the paper. I have to remember to apply the KISS principle when dealing with motives. I have a tendency to give more credit to unknown suspects than they usually deserve.

Bishop is also used in Chess. Rook... Queen...

[Zold1]

just to let you guys know the items on the postcard were found around where they found her car broken down.

I'm sorry. I'm dense as a doornob. The post cards were found near the crime scene? I thought the post cards had been mailed to the newspaper. I am so confused.

[Ron]

Hi Zold1 .

You said ,,

--->'' I'm sorry. I'm dense as a doornob. The post cards were found near the crime scene? I thought the post cards had been mailed to the newspaper. I am so confused.'' <---

Zold1 ,,, your confusion overwhelms me lol . Just kidding and thanks for your posts .
================================================== ======

---------------------------------------------------

---> SNIP: ''IMO, the sender wanted to start a "conspiracy" theory at ICSO and the newspaper, plus he just might want to communicate with the family. I'm certain some of the locals had quite a hoot after the first card was received, and copied in the paper. I have to remember to apply the KISS principle when dealing with motives. I have a tendency to give more credit to unknown suspects than they usually deserve.''<---
=================================

After spending so many hours on this 'first -half' which basically watches or follows a path or paths in a sequence of events in sequence shown by behaviour sort of and on a goal . In this 'first-half' l see that the goals lead to Renee's fate .

My original goal was perhaps to find a killer however due to the sequences etc the goal has now been altered . In that respect the above paragraph by ''SNIP'' ouch , is in co-operation with the findings of the 'first-half' sequences .

[Ron]

THIS IS NOT A CRUEL JOKE AND I AM TRYING TO HELP FIND JUSTICE FOR RENEE FOX AND THE ONES IN HER LOVE .THE EQUATIONS I AM APPLYING TO THIS IS REAL AND IS A SORT OF A 'NEW MATH' WHICH I CALL ''MOOSKEE MATH'' AFTER IT'S DEARLY MISSED AND DEPARTED CREATOR .

The words below are not to be comprehended by all and it has to be this way . This is intentional however due to the complex comprehension of this applied living concept on concept , l have tried to make it as simple as allowed and l do apologize for it's unusual format and extreme whatever .

...There is more than one thing going on here . There appears to be perhaps three people involved plus Renee prior to Renee's death .

During pre - Renee's death, the 'three' energy sequences , if l may say it that way , can be seen in play ,[ in equation] , and leading to Renee's fate but not a direct factor in it . These 'three' will be seen in the 'second-half' as they continue in their active sequences post- Renee but in another aspect of Renee , which is not directly involved in her death and their 'role' is not yet seen in the 'first-half'.

One pre -energy sequence does not continue post- Renee however the other 'three' pre -Renee energy sequences ,,, seen with the 'one' energy in pre -Renee sequences continue post -Renee but the 'one' contributing factor or energy which combines with the three others in nexus at Renee's death , does not continue post-Renee's death .

This suggests that 'three' were three people who knew and were involved in Renee's tragic sequence of events but were not the contributing factors to her death and the contributing energy or factor that was the ''unknown factor'' in Renee's death ends at her death ,, suggesting that Renee was not murdered .

If Renee was murdered the 'one' energy path or sequence would have continued post-Renee after it had 'hijacked' the other sequences pre- Renee , but it does not , ruling out murder in the 'one' energy hi-jacking of the other sequences .

..... The 'second-half' will now show how and why the other three sequences or 'energies in sequence' continued post-Renee while the contributing factor or sequence or energy in Renee's death stopped it's sequence at Renee's death .

This means that the three people who were involved in Renee's life and behaviour during this ordeal will be seen in the 'second-half' as their sequences will continue there .

This also means there is more than one person ,, who knows .

......All posts are welcome ...to be continued .

[Ron]

:rose: God loves us and gives us our pets and God gave me Mooskee:rose: .


------" Mooskee Math''

-----------for------

------ Renee Fox...'first-half'.

.............F1.............F2............F3
M1 x C x C x C x C x [x] x C2 x [x]2M4---> Nee

.....................+...................

............*................*.........*
M1x C x C x M2 x C x M3 x [x]2M4---> Nee


.............transitions into..........


M1 x [x] x C2 x [x]2M4


.....tranistions into....


M1 x C2 x M4 ...tranistions into ...


C x C ...transitions into ... zero or 'nothing' .

[Ron]

This post is the official start of this case's 'second-half' as previously explained .


The 'second-half' starts , sort of , in two places which immediately shows an unusual concept to see .

One starting point is when Renee was found . The other starting point is when Renee died . These two points , in an unusual concept , are also in a continuation of the pre-Renee sequences however since the 'second-half' has two starting points continuing from the 'first-half' which had only one point in finish , it is very difficult to see .

As well as that there is another factor seen in sequence of the 'three not directly related to Renee's death' energies which continue post-Renee but at that continue start point there is two starting points putting chaos and altering the three paths , which is yet to come because ,and again in an unusual concept , it has yet to come because it has yet to happen and will begin in live action once it is sort of created by the posts to follow next .

Sorry this is so confusing or say difficult to comprehend but it is for Justice for Renee and her family .

The next effort and work and research for this next part will take more than a moment .

Sincerely ,
Ron and Four Paws,
" Little Ones Lost "
Child Find Network .

...to be continued for Renee Fox .

[cabojenn]

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=9111934&postcount=576

[Ron]

Hi cabojenn.





This is such sad and hurting news .


I send my sincere Blessings to Renee's mom and family .

Ouch .

Life can sure be tough and Renee's mom has been through enough hurt for a lifetime .

Thank you for your post .

[Ron]

.


http://cbs2.com/video/?id=23373@kcbs.dayport.com


.

[Ron]

This Thread and sad turn of events has been going on for a long time .
Since my post number 188 l have put another aspect into looking for Renee, into play .

The conclusion is the effort of the 'two-halfs' , the first half and the second half . Although the first half presents a form of conclusion , such as it presenting that Renee was not murdered ,, though the first- half is accurate in it's presentation , the second- half will alter the first -half,, changing the outcome of the first half [ in the whole picture] but that change has not happened and cannot happen without the completion of the second-half 'in equation' ,which will in it's process change the first-half which has already happened - again in an absurd comprehension to realise .

I will be away for a short time .

I am very busy and l need some help from the caring people here who want to help in this cause for Justice for Renee and her family. Many want to help but do not know just how they can help .
I am sure the Police Officers in this 'case' do want to help . As they are and should be glad to offer their help , they can spend some time on this .

And the other caring people please do this , not for me although l do need it , but for Renee .

What l need is a ''Renee Fox Time-line''. For example we can start at the time when just before June 24 when Renee was smiling and made contact with her mom from her car and stating she was doing a favour for someone such as driving them somewhere . The 'first' in the time-line, would be written for example ,,,

-----------,,,,,-[these examples are hypothetical].-------------

''Renee Fox Time-line''

-June 21 3pm - Renee drives by mom's and is happy and in transit of taking person to their work .

-June22 4pm - Renee phones her child's father and states , [what she says goes here] .

-June 23 4pm - Renee phones boyfriend and asks for [ whatever she asks for etc goes here ].


------------

That is how we do it and it continues until Renee is found and also after , and the 'after' might go for example ,,

-August 10 11pm - Mysterious man locates Renee .

-August 12 7pm - Officer in charge states to News that Renee is deceased .

-August 13 9pm -Renee's body moved to , [wherever they took her goes here for example ] .
------------------------------

This is what is needed and it will take work and research and thought , to do it.

Family , friends , Authorities , and so many caring people can do this for Renee and post it here for me . And of course for all of us who are searching for Justice for Renee will be able to use this '' Time-line for Renee'' as a great asset .

The ''Renee Fox Time-line'' , a 'combined effort' to help this unfortunate innocent young lady find Justice .

We all deserve this , and so does Renee .

Sincerely ,

Ron and Four Paws .

[cabojenn]

I'm sorry. I'm dense as a doornob. The post cards were found near the crime scene? I thought the post cards had been mailed to the newspaper. I am so confused.

The postcards were mailed to the newspaper.

The items on the postcard were not found near her car or her body. They were found out on highway 395...along with a lot of other trash. It was a very uncomfortable (lack of a better word) coincidence for a few family members. In my opinion, the items on the postcard had nothing to do with the trash along the highway. I think the sender was just trying to be cryptic.

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is a book that showed up in the luggage / hotel room of a family member. How it got there it is still unknown. This was about the same time that the post cards came out.

Definitely~!!! Way, too much of a coincidence.

Especially if you add in the Sheriff that stayed parked outside the restaurant and then the hotel we stayed at. Yet, when Renee’s Mom had tried to talk to the Lead Detective that morning, he refused to meet with her. To this day, they have never spoken to each other.




http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/TMP00001.jpg


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/TMP00003.jpg

[Ron]

Hi LetsBeConcerned .
Was there money found in the car ? Where was the 4000 dollars found ? The 900 dollars apparently was found by the four by four guys who then gave it to the other guy . Where was the 800 dollars found ? Your asap reply would be appreciated .

[LetsBeConcerned]

Hi LetsBeConcerned .
Was there money found in the car ? Where was the 4000 dollars found ? The 900 dollars apparently was found by the four by four guys who then gave it to the other guy . Where was the 800 dollars found ? Your asap reply would be appreciated .

Hi Ron,

There was money found hidden in her car, that was about $800 (could be $700~?)

The $4,000 was found hidden in her pants. Her pants were found closer to the city and NOT closer to the canyon that she was last seen. Her body was found in between those 2 spots.

The $900 that was found in her purse, was not found in her wallet but in another item. It is unknown if those that found the purse knew that the money was there.

[Ron]

.

Thanks for your reply .

[Jer's Grandma]

If I remember from previous posts, there was a mix-up and rooms some luggage misplaced? Did the book show up at this time?
The cards show Laws RR museum and Alabama Hills. Are there any references to these places in the book? Is the book fairly new or is it well worn? I'm sure new copies would be available in the area.
The cards were sent to the Inyo Register/Regester. Both were sent before Renee was found and both were postmarked on a Thursday (if I remember correctly). The postmarks read Bakersfield and Mojave- is mail from the area not postmarked in the individual towns? No more cards were sent after she was found.

A google search shows the book published in 1999 by Community publishing and printing in Bishop which was at one time- or still may be connected with the Inyo Register. Probably just a coincidence.
I'm just summarizing a few things that stick in my mind

[LetsBeConcerned]

If I remember from previous posts, there was a mix-up and rooms some luggage misplaced? Did the book show up at this time?
The cards show Laws RR museum and Alabama Hills. Are there any references to these places in the book? Is the book fairly new or is it well worn? I'm sure new copies would be available in the area.
The cards were sent to the Inyo Register/Regester. Both were sent before Renee was found and both were postmarked on a Thursday (if I remember correctly). The postmarks read Bakersfield and Mojave- is mail from the area not postmarked in the individual towns? No more cards were sent after she was found.

A google search shows the book published in 1999 by Community publishing and printing in Bishop which was at one time- or still may be connected with the Inyo Register. Probably just a coincidence.
I'm just summarizing a few things that stick in my mind


Hi, Jer’s Grandma,

Yes the book turned up in the “New Room” at the hotel.

The book seemed to have been new where the binding had never been broken or creased. I loaned the book to another family member so I will look later to see if it does reference Laws or Alabama hills…

A lot of interesting questions that I had not thought of before~!!!


:beer:

[LetsBeConcerned]

I would like to know what ALL of you think about of Renee’s memorial being torn down~?



Do you think it was an act of senseless vandalism~?

Or was someone making a statement~?

Or was it bothering someone’s conscience~?

Any other Ideas as to why someone would do something so cruel~!!!!

[Jer's Grandma]

I would like to know what ALL of you think about of Renee’s memorial being torn down~?



Do you think it was an act of senseless vandalism~?

Or was someone making a statement~?

Or was it bothering someone’s conscience~?

Any other Ideas as to why someone would do something so cruel~!!!!




---------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what to think about the memorial being destroyed. To me it raises more questions--- like why now after 2 years? Why leave a note? Was it written on a type of paper that someone may normally have in their car? Did it seem to be an unplanned random act of vandalism or did it look like someone had gone there for the purpose of destroying it? If it was planned, was the purpose to remind people of Renee? Why not destroy the book also?
I may have missed it but I don't recall seeing an article in the Inyo Register- just on the TV site. The photo seemed to show a necklace or beads left on the rock with the note--any significance?
Either way, this was a terrible act of disrespect.
I'd like to know the memorial will be rebuilt. From what I've read, many of the locals had nothing but sympathy for Renee and her family.

[cabojenn]

I don't have the patience to answer by "quotes"...

The cell phone in her car with the dead battery (LetsBeC... may correct me if I am wrong) was her OLD cell phone. She had a new one that I THOUGHT had been recovered somewhere near her body but I may be mistaken. I seem to remember that her last calls may have been to 411. If that is true, maybe she was calling info. to get help, or maybe she meant to call 911; we will never know IMO. I also know that during the beginning when she first vanished, enough people tried calling Renee and her phone would just ring that LE could have tried to locate her by ping, but they didn't even try.
**************
Ron, I do know that Renee was a serious note taker. She wrote everything down. I can offer this, she made many attempts to reach her son by phone. She kept an accounting of money spent and all receipts. There was no indication that she had spent money on drugs...
*************
As far as the memorial, it could have been any of those things mentioned.

It could even be an idiot like this guy, "Have to agree with you there. No doubt I'll be packing some of those flowers etc. out of the canyons in years to come!" from the death-valley forum.

Or maybe someone didn't like names being mentioned like from this site:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2424687

"After reading the posts and looking at the postcards, this is what I came up with:

The first postcard is signed Elliot Ness, Chloride, Arizona.

The second postcard is "signed" 520-457-3008.

An internet search comes up with that phone number for the former Tumbling Tumbleweed newspaper once located in Tombstone, AZ. The newspaper is no longer published and was once owned by a man named Bob Candland.

Bob Candland was a former police officer in San Diego, California and had bought the Tumbling Tumbleweed newspaper in Tombstone, AZ in 1993.

While there, he exposed a lot of corruption in the local law enforcement. He was accused of murder and threatened with lynching. The murder accusations referred to a series of prostitutes found murdered in San Diego. One of those prostitutes was Donna Gentile. Her mouth was stuffed with rocks, "
Quote:
presumably a sign that she'd been killed to keep her quiet."

(Note the second postcard with a picture of just rocks) Before her death in June, 1985, she had filed a lawsuit against Candland and six other policemen for harrassment.


Quote:
Tom Streed, head of a police task force charged with finding the prostitute killer or killers, suspected that one or more San Diego cops might be involved. But Streed was transferred back to homicide and no killer has ever been found.

Quote:
The Tumbleweed also has reported on more uncomfortable issues, such as a request by the Town Council that the Arizona Attorney General's office investigate an alleged relationship between the Town Clerk and a prison inmate working at Town Hall on the DUI work program. That and other matters eventually forced the clerk's resignation.

But most of the controversy has swirled around a series of stories on the Tombstone Marshal's Office. They include Marshal Bobby Gerencser's refusal to release public documents, the possible use of excessive force by deputies, the lack of a Town Council-approved manual and no central evidence log.

The paper also revealed the questionable activities and backgrounds of several deputies. Among them:

• Charles Curry, an off-duty reserve deputy, was discovered drinking beer in the walk-in cooler of the local Circle K. He resigned after the story ran.

• Deputy Danny Romero received a less-than-honorable discharge from the Navy for drug abuse and was indicted for vehicular homicide in 1987. In the second incident, an accident on State Route 186 near Willcox, a teenage girl was thrown from Romero's truck and killed. Police reports say Romero had been drinking, but refused to submit to a blood test. The charge against him was later dropped for lack of evidence.

• Dawn Stanley, another of the Marshal's hires, had been fired by Arizona Game & Fish following a series of allegations, including lying and failing to do assigned tasks, according to a nine-page termination memo prepared by the agency. The background investigation prior to her hiring was done by Danny Romero. He gave her a good recommendation.

• Deputy Will Russell was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon in January 1993, before joining the Marshal's Office. Russell was pulled over near Sierra Vista after a woman spotted a passenger in Russell's jeep wearing a ski mask and screwing a black silencer onto a rifle. Cops found a loaded .357 Magnum under Russell's shirt, and two semi-automatic weapons in a briefcase.

Russell also carried a store-bought badge identifying him as an agent of U.S. Army intelligence. After the Tumbleweed published an account of the incident, Russell wrote to the paper acknowledging that he was carrying a concealed weapon, but said his "military supervisors encouraged this."

In the Army, Russell said he'd been a counter-intelligence agent investigating spies and terrorists, but he was limited in what he could say about his work. "I'm bound by law not to speak about what I did for the government," Russell wrote, adding that he was on his way to trade the weapons for scuba gear. But one investigator suspected Russell of being an illegal gun dealer. He plead guilty and was fined $240.

The above excerpts were from the Tucson Weekly:

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tw/08-14-97/feat.htm

My take on all this was that someone made a futile attempt to use the postcards to try and implicate Candland in the murder of Renee Fox by listing his phone number on the postcard and making a reference to "Elliot Ness" because of his expose of corruption in the Tombstone Marshall's office (this, I believe, was alluded to in the other postcard showing the LE officer with distorted features and the pictures of alcohol, knowing that a background check would reveal his alleged involvement in the San Diego hooker deaths and his expose of the above-named officers.

With all the threats to Candland above and the corruption he exposed, any of the accused had motive to try and frame him.

If I had my druthers, because of the reference to Elliot Ness in the postcard, I'd look into Deputy Will Russell's background since he was found carrying a fake badge when he was pulled over. Why would a cop carry a fake badge?

Or, maybe it was the actual San Diego prostitute killer trying to frame Candland and take the heat off himself."

Remember when that guy was being targeted on the other thread and he lashed out by saying mean and untrue things about Renee? He wasn't even in the area at the same time she was.

I am glad to know it is being rebuilt.;)

[Ron]

- WARNING-GRAPHIC-WARNING-GRAPHIC-WARNING-GRAPHIC-WARNING-

The 'exact' Post below is from a Police Officer who Posted this Post in a Renee Fox Board . I have come across a few of them and this Police Officer seems interested in helping and has much to say with details of this case in many areas . Perhaps if he reads this he may reply here at this fine Site .
----------------------------------------
..EDITED..

---> "Unstoppable,,, Perpetrator climaxing while attacking a cop.

It was early 1990 when I attended a shooting late one night in the industrial area where I served as a police officer.

The perpetrator doused his unfaithful wife in kerosene and tried to set her alight. She fled and contacted the police.

A uniformed police sergeant confronted the man and attempted to arrest him when the man fled on foot. The sergeant gave chase, also on foot, and they ended up in an ally between a tall building and an eight foot wall without no exit.

Pistol drawn the sergeant told the man to lie down upon which the man charged the police officer with on hand cocked above his head in a threatening manner. The sergeant retreated while yelling at the man to stand still but they man kept rushing on.

After two warning shots the sergeant shot the man, but it had no effect. He then shot him another 4 times before the perp went down.

I photographed and processed the scene, and when we rolled the deceased over, we found a very long screw driver lying under his body.

The next morning I attended the post mortem and when the attendants undressed the perp, evidence was clear that the man actually climaxed during his charge of the police sergeant.

My question is this: The human sex drive being the strongest drive/urge that we have, it could be that a sexual high at that point in time, in the face of danger and/or certain death, caused this particular perpetrator to keep on charging.

I have never discussed this before and I do not particularly like remembering it, but I need to understand it. "<---

[Ron]

This is taken 'out of context' of the same Police Officer and may not necessarily be pertaining to ...,

---> " Something freaky happened that day: Reenen (my colleague) and I dug through a new pile of pics released by the colour photo lab in order to claim crime scene photographs took by us in order to complete albums which the detectives were waiting for. We opened this particular envelope, shoveled through the prints to see if it looked familiar and suddenly, and instantaniously we were BOTH grossed out by "an odor" present as we viewed the pictures.
Look, this is utterly rediculous and impossible. There is no way in hell that ANY smell could have been emitted by those postcard sized prints, but as I live and breath, I swear that both of us smelled something that could only be described as "decomposition". Yeah, I know that it must have been subconsious since we've been exposed to these sites , smells and scenes for many years. Still, 16 years later, I still find it very freaky...."<---

[SaraSidle]

- WARNING-GRAPHIC-WARNING-GRAPHIC-WARNING-GRAPHIC-WARNING-

The 'exact' Post below is from a Police Officer who Posted this Post in a Renee Fox Board . I have come across a few of them and this Police Officer seems interested in helping and has much to say with details of this case in many areas . Perhaps if he reads this he may reply here at this fine Site .
----------------------------------------
..EDITED..

---> "Unstoppable,,, Perpetrator climaxing while attacking a cop.

It was early 1990 when I attended a shooting late one night in the industrial area where I served as a police officer.

The perpetrator doused his unfaithful wife in kerosene and tried to set her alight. She fled and contacted the police.

A uniformed police sergeant confronted the man and attempted to arrest him when the man fled on foot. The sergeant gave chase, also on foot, and they ended up in an ally between a tall building and an eight foot wall without no exit.

Pistol drawn the sergeant told the man to lie down upon which the man charged the police officer with on hand cocked above his head in a threatening manner. The sergeant retreated while yelling at the man to stand still but they man kept rushing on.

After two warning shots the sergeant shot the man, but it had no effect. He then shot him another 4 times before the perp went down.

I photographed and processed the scene, and when we rolled the deceased over, we found a very long screw driver lying under his body.

The next morning I attended the post mortem and when the attendants undressed the perp, evidence was clear that the man actually climaxed during his charge of the police sergeant.

My question is this: The human sex drive being the strongest drive/urge that we have, it could be that a sexual high at that point in time, in the face of danger and/or certain death, caused this particular perpetrator to keep on charging.

I have never discussed this before and I do not particularly like remembering it, but I need to understand it. "<---

Why do you have so much disrespect that you would post this?

[SaraSidle]

This is taken 'out of context' of the same Police Officer and may not necessarily be pertaining to ...,

---> " Something freaky happened that day: Reenen (my colleague) and I dug through a new pile of pics released by the colour photo lab in order to claim crime scene photographs took by us in order to complete albums which the detectives were waiting for. We opened this particular envelope, shoveled through the prints to see if it looked familiar and suddenly, and instantaniously we were BOTH grossed out by "an odor" present as we viewed the pictures.
Look, this is utterly rediculous and impossible. There is no way in hell that ANY smell could have been emitted by those postcard sized prints, but as I live and breath, I swear that both of us smelled something that could only be described as "decomposition". Yeah, I know that it must have been subconsious since we've been exposed to these sites , smells and scenes for many years. Still, 16 years later, I still find it very freaky...."<---

Why do you have so much disrespect that you would post this?

[Ron]

.

It is not disrespect but l certainly am getting disrespect from many at this fine Site so l will follow through on your requests and stop Posting here at this Site .

"LOL" is on to some serious stuff here but there is just too much lies etc thrown at me here that l feel that no one cares if l continue to help in this or not .

I do not deserve the lies said of me . I put my quality time [in] for Renee and her family to solve this for them and Justice itself but being attacked so much as l am here is not right and makes it all that more difficult for me especially when l am using a new 'concept in application' while doing this .

[susie31023]

.

It is not disrespect but l certainly am getting disrespect from many at this fine Site so l will follow through on your requests and stop Posting here at this Site .

"LOL" is on to some serious stuff here but there is just too much lies etc thrown at me here that l feel that no one cares if l continue to help in this or not .

I do not deserve the lies said of me . I put my quality time [in] for Renee and her family to solve this for them and Justice itself but being attacked so much as l am here is not right and makes it all that more difficult for me especially when l am using a new 'concept in application' while doing this .


Ron I agree with Sara. Those posts WERE disrespectful and had absolutely NOTHING to do with Renee's case. I also agree if that is going to be the nature of your posts perhaps you should forego the posting here on "this fine site". You know as well as we do the porn that has been posted and you also know that there is a chance younger persons could be reading here as victims families. I believe we should be responsible in our posting so that no one should be afraid to read here on "this fine site". JMO

Also as for anyone "attacking" you it is only when you continue to try and post such trash as you have in the last couple of weeks.

[Jer's Grandma]

LetsBeConcerned

Yes the book turned up in the “New Room” at the hotel.

-------------------------------

I just realized that David's last name is/sounds German? If I remember correctly (don't have time to look for the post) didn't the staff at the motel think your group may have been with or associated with a group of Germans who were there at the same time? Was that group interested in the disappearance of the German couple and children who went missing in Death Valley in 1996? If so, maybe the book was intended for them if there is mention of that family in the book.
Sorry that I have more questions than answers but the more I read, the more I realize that there are many facts I didn't know because info is spread in many forums. My questions are mainly to try and sort out things that may not have anything at all to do with Renee.
When I first read that LE didn't go out right away, my first thought was that some nut with a scanner heard the report of Renee being alone, knew that LE wasn't going to get there soon and went and picked her up. Now I don't know what to think but I surely hope this is resolved.
I feel so bad for the family.

[LetsBeConcerned]

---------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what to think about the memorial being destroyed. To me it raises more questions--- like why now after 2 years? Why leave a note? Was it written on a type of paper that someone may normally have in their car? Did it seem to be an unplanned random act of vandalism or did it look like someone had gone there for the purpose of destroying it? If it was planned, was the purpose to remind people of Renee? Why not destroy the book also?
I may have missed it but I don't recall seeing an article in the Inyo Register- just on the TV site. The photo seemed to show a necklace or beads left on the rock with the note--any significance?
Either way, this was a terrible act of disrespect.
I'd like to know the memorial will be rebuilt. From what I've read, many of the locals had nothing but sympathy for Renee and her family.



You pose a lot of interesting questions~!! I have found out that the note was left inside the book. I would assume he also used the pens inside the prayer box.


From what I understand, some people have already rebuilt the rock path and put new flowers up there. It is true that the locals did have a lot of Sympathy for Renee.

Here are some pictures of the inside of the prayer box. Taken more than a year ago.


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/reneeplacque.jpg



http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/aDSCF3200.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

LetsBeConcerned

Yes the book turned up in the “New Room” at the hotel.

-------------------------------

I just realized that David's last name is/sounds German? If I remember correctly (don't have time to look for the post) didn't the staff at the motel think your group may have been with or associated with a group of Germans who were there at the same time? Was that group interested in the disappearance of the German couple and children who went missing in Death Valley in 1996? If so, maybe the book was intended for them if there is mention of that family in the book.
Sorry that I have more questions than answers but the more I read, the more I realize that there are many facts I didn't know because info is spread in many forums. My questions are mainly to try and sort out things that may not have anything at all to do with Renee.
When I first read that LE didn't go out right away, my first thought was that some nut with a scanner heard the report of Renee being alone, knew that LE wasn't going to get there soon and went and picked her up. Now I don't know what to think but I surely hope this is resolved.
I feel so bad for the family.





At the time that we were checking in the hotel, there was a group of German tourists checking in between our groups. All of our groups were checking in at different times.

David was not there at the time and I am not sure if he ever did check into the hotel.

The German Tourists checked in on Friday afternoon. David came to town early Saturday morning and headed back home Saturday afternoon before dinner.

The German family that disappeared in 1996, it was the 10 anniversary of their disappearance. It was a hotel staff member that would later (late Friday night) tell me that it was also in the newspaper. I don’t think that there was any reference to the family in the book since back then when it was written in 1999 it was considered recent and maybe not “historical”, but I don’t know for sure.

The Tourists stayed in a different area of the hotel and the only time we saw them was in or near the lobby.

I think that the only way that the hotel would have known David’s last name is "if" David actually checked-in. The room was reserved under someone else’s credit card.

Your sympathies and interest in this case is very much appreciated~!!!

:)

[Ron]

:seeya:I apologize if my words here have offended anyone . I will be more selective in my words as l did not intend to offend anyone .

Sincerely ,
Ron and Four Paws :seeya:.

http://i32.tinypic.com/516ow7.jpg

[Zold1]

If I remember from previous posts, there was a mix-up and rooms some luggage misplaced? Did the book show up at this time?
The cards show Laws RR museum and Alabama Hills. Are there any references to these places in the book? Is the book fairly new or is it well worn? I'm sure new copies would be available in the area.
The cards were sent to the Inyo Register/Regester. Both were sent before Renee was found and both were postmarked on a Thursday (if I remember correctly). The postmarks read Bakersfield and Mojave- is mail from the area not postmarked in the individual towns? No more cards were sent after she was found.

A google search shows the book published in 1999 by Community publishing and printing in Bishop which was at one time- or still may be connected with the Inyo Register. Probably just a coincidence.
I'm just summarizing a few things that stick in my mind

I do not perceive that as a coincidence. Has anyone done a study concerning the local media/reporter who left there for what part of the country did he go to?

Obviously the motive for this dead woman was not robbery. The mailing of the post cards is what is peculiar. If they were sent before the editor left town, I would certainly wonder how they ended up in the trash. No, I don't buy he threw them in the trash. Maybe LE did. They don't appear to be very swift IMO. I am betting someone wanted them to be found.

[Zold1]

Obviously the Memorial site rubbed someone the wrong way. I have a few thoughts on that. 1. Revenge/sick of looking at it. 2. Guilty conscious for not responding when they should have. 3. Killers often revisit their crime scene and may have resented not being recognized for his handiwork. Let's remember the body was not found until August 12th? Odd coincidence again. It is possible since no one found the body during the search, that Renee was held somewhere nearby until then.

[Ron]

Did any of the searchers report that they had been over the sight where Renee was found and she wasn't there before when they were searching there ?

[Ron]

What was Renee doing the night before she was last reported seen ?
Was she camping or something like that ?
Who did she contact or meet the night before ?

Since none of this makes sense perhaps we should look at what Renee did the night before she apparently went missing . We know she had money and hid it well but the night before did anyone else know of her money besides the family friends etc ?
Could people she met at the campground or wherever the night before , could they have staged the car stalling and the rest / Could they have been searching for Renee's money ? Could Renee have deliberately left some of the money in the car for them to find hoping they would find the money and go away ?

Also it isn't difficult to see a young vulnerable lady such as Renee take some serious drugs since she now had good future plans etc and enough money to do so and if she did do some drugs she may have done them away from home
and perhaps wanted to 'straighten out' before returning home but someone entered the picture and it may have been the night before ?

[Ron]

Also if Renee was at a registered campsite or wherever , the culprits may have been there too . These campsites have a list of who is there and this would mean that the culprit is one of the names on the list of campers etc who stayed at the same campsite as Renee that night .
Was all this checked out by the police ?

[cabojenn]

She was found August 10th.

[cabojenn]

Ron, while I thank you for your interest, if you have read through this thread as well as the others, you would already know that she was not camping. She was driving home after she realized that her drive to clear her mind had taken her so far from home. She had tried many times to call her son, I know this because she had kept notes about it, and the last person she spoke to was a friend. She said she had ended up in June Lake, the friend asked why she was so far, she hadn't realized that she WAS that far, and she said she was coming home. So to answer your question, the night before she was in June Lake, and stayed the night because her friend told her to; it was too far for her to drive home right away.

There used to be a sign on the highway that was a little more than misleading; LA and Mazourka Canyon one way, some place else another. She took the turn she thought would take her home. Instead she ended up deep in a canyon, and her car broke down.

Her last phone calls were to 411 (not 911).

Many people passed the spot where Renee was found, just a few feet from the road, this would include LE, rangers, other visitors, search and rescue, search dogs, and family that went up there to search for her. LE used a helicopter if I am not mistaken. LE said it was SURE she had made it out of the canyon and could be anywhere. Anywhere, but in the canyon.

She was found just minutes from the rangers station, by the way. So for the guy that did find her because he said when he was riding around he could smell her, I can't get over the thought of why LE couldn't considering they drove past her EVERY DAY, as did so many visitors to the area.

No one would have known whether or not Renee had money on her, and she had just passed a drug test for a new job. She was also about to begin school at CSUN because she wanted to be a school teacher; she was very good with kids, and was an amzaing mother.

[Ron]

Sorry, l thought Renee did not sleep at home the night before and if she did not sleep at home where did she sleep the night before she was seen on the road ?

[LetsBeConcerned]

Did any of the searchers report that they had been over the sight where Renee was found and she wasn't there before when they were searching there ?

Hi Ron,

Here is the information that you are looking for…

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=9048688&postcount=479

The second paragraph states…

“According to Bedell, the area where the body was found was outside of the search area established to find Fox, however, Lutz said, “this (area) was flown over for two days in a grid pattern” in the search for the missing Simi Valley mother.”

The entire article is full of inconsistencies that do not make any sense~!!! But that is on the authorities lap. Everything from saying that they still don’t think that foul play was involved (even before she was identified or the autopsy was done) to they couldn’t tell by looking at the body if she was nude. :confused:

[LetsBeConcerned]

Sorry, l thought Renee did not sleep at home the night before and if she did not sleep at home where did she sleep the night before she was seen on the road ?

When Renee’s car was found, the driver’s seat was in the reclined position. So in all probability she slept in her car the night before. When Renee was last seen, on Saturday, she was miles away from her car walking back towards town. On Sunday, is when her purse was found in the middle of the road.

:)

[Ron]

Hi .
Thank you for posting the article . I must honestly say it gave me 'chills' as l read it . Something in that article doesn't compute .

I am teaching my puppy to 'Track' so together in future we will search for missing children . Personally l believe my puppy could have found Renee if only forty feet from the road and he is only 6 months old .

The Police not responding asap is not appropriate in my opinion but l have never been there so l do not know how the Police there set their priorities but they obviously felt that the lady ''out there'' was in no danger because the travellers probably told the Police that the lady said she was , 'okay ' . Perhaps a lady reported walking but stating she is 'okay' is not a priority to Police . Perhaps if Renee had told the travellers she was ''in trouble'' the Police would have responded quicker .

Why did the four wheelers disappear ? Have any of them been heard of since their apparent visit to the Police ,, or what exactly was the role of the four wheelers ? Do the Police have their names etc ?

Also would you please clarify for me [ ''Little Ones Lost'' Child Find Network ] the person who actually located Renee . Please clarify that incident for me asap , and thanks .

Ron and the Paws.

[Ron]

My dog and l want to know why the search dogs headed for the 'mine' . They obviously had picked up a scent but l must assume the scent the search dogs picked up was probably an injured animal taking refuge in the mine.

Renee being in the 'mine' seems too obvious and almost appears to be planned by the culprit to send the the dogs away from Renee.

[Ron]

Renee sleeping in her car rather than flag down a car for help is suspicious in my opinion and l must assume the police also feel Renee did not sleep in her car the night before ?

So what did Renee do the night before ? No one knows ?

[Ron]

It appears that when Renee was found laying by the road and the three vehicles stopped for her , that she was in no apparent distress and this seems obvious .

It appears as if Renee was 'waiting' for someone to pick her up or meet her at that location for whatever reason but then l assume Renee would have told the three vehicles she was waiting for someone to pick her up which makes sense and explains her laying by the road at that particular spot .
This of course placed someone else at the scene also.

[Ron]

Who would place Renee in the position she was found ... It almost appears as though someone placed Renee there and since she was placed as she was it appears to me that the people who placed Renee there did it out of some kind of respect for her .

It reminds me of a movie l saw once where the Natives placed their deceased in that position out of respect , but l am not sure of course and l am not suggesting that Natives originally found Renee .

Also it was told to me that Natives who feel that [that] land is theirs,, might destroy the shrine there but again this is not my opinion because any group of young drunken teens could have destroyed the shrine not really realizing the hurt it would cause to the family and friends of Renee , ''bless her soul'' .

A hunter would know how to place a 'source' so the tracking dogs will stay away from the actual area where Renee was 'last' . The way it is now is as if she was always there but that doesn't make any sense from my knowledge of tracking dogs shows me that Renee was in fact not there when the dogs searched which may mean that Renee left the scene and was placed there at a later date .

[Ron]

:rose: Does any of the family have a copy of the autopsy report ? A 'timeline' is needed here because there is so much info it is hard to place times and dates . I was hoping someone here would offer a timeline for Renee but l guess not so l assume l will have to do it myself . The timeline will allow us to see this in the whole picture and it will surely help .:rose:

[Ron]

''Renee's purse found in the middle of the road .''
Perhaps Renee threw it out of a car window in an attempt for help and that seems why the purse was where it was . Or the culprits thought there was no money in it so they threw it out the travelling car window . But that doesn't make sense either because if the culprits threw Renee's purse out of the car window it might lead to them so it seems Renee herself threw her purse out of the window to seek some and any kind of help . Since Renee knew that money was in the wallet she must have slid the purse out the window without anyone seeing her and she was not able to take out the money without being seen and that is why she left the money in it , perhaps .

[Ron]

Did anyone notice or was anyone aware that Renee was not home the night before , before it was determined she was missing ?
Was her son requesting a phone call from mom or was it normal for Renee to not contact her son when she will be gone over night ?

[Ron]

Assuming Renee slept in her car the night before she would have locked all the car doors . Were all doors locked except the driver's door ?
Also l must assume if she slept in the car she would have either listened to the radio or turn on the lights or the heater which means that Renee's car battery would have been dead ,, was it ?
And how much gas was left in the car ?
What is the official cause of death as reported in the autopsy ?

[Ron]

Thank you for your concern and reply . I never met Renee or even heard of her but only from this Site have l learned of Renee and her unfortunate horror which ended her precious life .

My heart was touched when l read of her mother and the hurt she has been through which seems to continue today . This woman has been hurt enough and it is time someone gives us something else to go on .

If the person involved in Renee's death is as you say then perhaps they will continue with their ''game of life'' and at least provide us with another lead and if this person is looking for such ''adventure'' then another lead for us to go on,
is in the cards .

Some of us have life so easy and others such as Renee's mom and her family have to live with this pure horror daily and the culprit has no right to inflict such hurt and horror as it has been done to Renee and her family and friends also .

Our Lord does forgive when truth is set free and allows at least a chance of acceptance and can finally put closure to this here on Earth now and not let this person be dragged to the pits of Hell for what was done to Renee and her mom and her family and her friends and even us who are just simple people who care for people who have had their lives taken from them even as they still live today .

Surely even a murderer has a heart when it is time to put closure to the horror caused by this person to so , so many . This person did not just kill Renee but took a piece of every person who knows of Renee's sad and horrific end of her so precious and young life .

''Come forward'' some how and allow yourself to reach your Creator by making even a quiet passing of truthfulness that will allow Renee's mom to at least put closure to this , as this is all she has left now . You can do this and still not reveal who or where you are and then Renee can shine in Heaven as she watches her mom finally have a good night's sleep as she goes forward in her precious life she holds .

We do not like murderers but we love when a person who has done wrong or made a mistake tries to clarify it for yourself and your Creator because the culprit is on a one way straight path to Hell but has time to change directions and show all of Man that we do make mistakes even horrific mistakes as this but God gives us time to undo what was done even though Renee has this Earthly reality called life taken from her .

There is a reason why people mess up and do the things such as what was done to Renee but there is time to do the right and correct and loving things that will set you free through truth and your honesty .

What else can l say but another day has come and gone and life goes on but some of us do know that there is more to life and death than what we see and this is why there is still HOPE that this person will find God and Truth and realize what they have done to the future of 'their' own existence by this murder and this is no longer about Renee but about her killer and there is time for a reality check with God for what they did , and God will listen to them and be so happy that this person finally did the right thing and set Renee's mom free from this horrific mystery .
The person who killed Renee can alter and even change History if they come forward now and allow the truth to be told , and changing History is now what is in the cards for this person .

Set Renee and her mom and all in Renee's love free and this can be done now with a little bit of love for yourself and mankind and yes God Himself .

This is hurting me and l know no one in this sad story but l have Faith that the right thing will in fact be done by this person and show all of Man that we do make mistakes but also that forgiveness is available , if it is to be .

I am tired and so sad for Renee's mom and l ask this person who killed Renee to find God , your Creator and do the correct thing for Renee and Justice and God Himself , while you still have time to do this .

God Bless you Renee and l feel you have been sent to Heaven and are now waiting for the truth to be told to set everyone free of this but also for the murderer of you to change the life they hold and show the world that to be Human involves great errors even for the murderer of Renee .

I hope Renee's murderer reads this and does the right thing as l have already said , and prove their is HOPE for all Man even murderers when they come clean from the bottom of their heart and realize not only how many many people this has hurt,, but also you have sealed your 'own' life and death with a Fate of horror for yourself but because we all live in this world and are all alive together at this time in History you still have a chance to set yourself free from your horrific fate to come when you yourself die .
This is in 'your' hands and if you are reading this now than it is your time to be what your Creator wants you to be , and you probably know what l am saying to you is true .
It is in your hands , do the right thing for yourself and God and put closure to this by revealing what you know .

You have made a big mistake and now should live up to it , yep .

Ron .

[Ron]

Hi crimehunter :seeya: .

You stated ,

'' The pictures on her taped on must be a connection to something also because they signify something otherwise they would not be on the cards as is. ''
----------------->

:confused: Is it possible to get 'DNA' from under the stamp on the the postcard from the person who licked the stamp on the card ? If so has this been done ?

From another case --> '' It was at this lab that the saliva from the much-traveled plastic cup would be tested to see if it matched the saliva that had licked closed three plain white envelopes months earlier. If the spit matched, he had his man.''

---> '' Safety Director Eliot Ness. Twelve victims were decapitated and dismembered in the 1930s. The testing proposed by the coroner would involve cutting a corner containing the 2-cent stamp , the suspect may have licked, off each postcard , and grinding-up that sample to extract the DNA.''


:rose:

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is a book that showed up in the luggage / hotel room of a family member. How it got there it is still unknown. This was about the same time that the post cards came out.

Definitely~!!! Way, too much of a coincidence.

Especially if you add in the Sheriff that stayed parked outside the restaurant and then the hotel we stayed at. Yet, when Renee’s Mom had tried to talk to the Lead Detective that morning, he refused to meet with her. To this day, they have never spoken to each other.




http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/TMP00001.jpg


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/TMP00003.jpg

Front of first postcard.......
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/postcardfrontrenee1.jpg

Heres the back of the first postcard ........
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc83/jo_momma_82/postcardbackrenee11.jpg



I just noticed that Chalfant shows up on the post card and book.


:o

[old_soul]

I am looking forward to reading pages on this thread I haven't gotten to yet, but it's alarming that ISCO handled this the way they did. Considering the resources available in 2007, which were many, there is no validity to closing this case and call it suicide by drugs. It is also questionable as to why her sighting was not followed up sooner.

Someone contemplating suicide does not lose their shoes and clothing or make waterbottles mysteriously disappear. It also seems that Renee had much to live for, namely her son, and would not go this route. Even after breaking down, possibly hanging around and pondering life's problems are a reasonable thought. But, Suicide?

Obviously this postcard (#1) is a calling card sent by the killer. The alien photo would have been taken from a rag mag like The Sun, so the perp possibly reads these. Putting it on top of a uniformed LE, tells us either he hates LE, or perhaps he is one, and is tortured by guilt over what he has done, ie 'I'm messed up, I'm a bad man'. Local enforcement might be aware of a rogue cop within their little group, hence the handling of this from the get go. The alcohol reference tells us he also might have been wasted, and many times chronic drinkers black out...not knowing what they did during that time. Does this fit in? Meeting up with Renee at that time? She would have gotten in a police car, thinking it was safe.

What and why the cover up here, because there is one. There are people in this town who know something, but cannot/willnot talk.

Whoever was with her Forced her to ingest the drugs, and she was held against her will until that time. The killer also knows this area well, IMO.

Thanks for allowing me to post my initial thoughts on the sad and unsolved
murder of Renee. She, and her family, have a right to Truth and Justice.

:read:

[Ron]

Hi old_soul :seeya:.

Nice to see you interested in Justice for Renee . It seems that some vital information on this case has not , as of yet , has not been presented or brought forward .

Why diid the ''four wheelers'' vanish ?
Also there seems to be nothing written on the guy who finally told Police where Renee was to be found .

old_soul :seeya: , you stated ,,

=== '' Whoever was with her Forced her to ingest the drugs, and she was held against her will until that time. The killer also knows this area well, IMO.'' ===

=== '' She, and her family, have a right to Truth and Justice. '' ===
--------------

Some people here at this fine Site have worked very hard to bring ''legal justice'' to Renee .Your help is appreciated .

--- Ron and Four Paws

-------

[Ron]

Hi LetsBeConcerned :seeya: .

Can the FBI take the DNA from the back of the 'licked' stamped post-card and run a DNA sweep on it to see if it matches any in the DNA base ? Was this done already ?

[Ron]

===='' For whatever reason, she continued on into Mazourka Canyon, passing signs that warn drivers about the treacherous terrain. Then she tried to drive over a large mound of sand, broke an axle and her car's oil pan and started walking.

Then, she disappeared.

``She spent the night in the car, then wrapped some stuff she wanted in a blanket and started walking, about eight miles,'' her brother said.

Inyo County sheriff's deputies and family members said some campers in a four-wheel-drive vehicle reported seeing her walking and stopped to give her some water.

``They say she was delirious .''====

=========================

QUESTION...If Renee slept in her car where it apparently broke down , Renee may have locked all the doors when she went to sleep in the car , however when Renee woke up the next day she left the car with only the Driver's side door left unlocked . This suggests that if the only door left unlocked was the Driver's side door , then Renee slept in her car . However if all doors were found unlocked , then perhaps Renee did not sleep in her car.

Did the Police take note of Renee's car door locks ?

Renee was seen crying on the Court House steps . These tears may have been withdrawl tears ,, suggesting that Renee was in drug-withdrawl and desperately searching for drugs ,
When Renee finally got some drugs she took too much and convulsed and became delerious , and soon went into a coma , but did not die until days or weeks later ,,accidently placing her associates who arrive ,, in deep trouble .

However this places Renee's death as accidental drug overdose and placing Renee's associates into their now serious problem of what to do with Renee's body , without being involved .

[LetsBeConcerned]

Well Hello Old Soul… And Welcome to this thread~!!


When Renee went missing in 2006, I went searching for maps and read an article that said there are NO Official Maps of the roads and are not expected to finish the map until 2008.

I remember thinking to myself, “What century are we in~? Not to have all these roads mapped out…. These roads were made over a hundred years ago~!!!!”

Here is an article on the current status of these roads

http://www.ksrw.sierrawave.net/site/content/view/1733/38/

PS… There are no signs labeling these roads…

I will post pictures of the roads that Renee traveled, later.

:seeya:

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is a picture looking down Mazourka Canyon Road at the city of Independence.. I know that “for us city folks”… It is hard to believe that there are still roads that have no signs, but this is one of them.



http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/MazourkaCanyon.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is the road that Renee’s car was actually found.




http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/RoadRenee.jpg

[sharlock]

Obviously the first postcard is a calling card sent by the killer. Imo the alien photo on top of a uniformed LE, tells us either he hates LE, or perhaps he is one, and is tortured by guilt over what he has done, 'I'm messed up, I'm a bad man'. LE could even be aware of a rogue cop within their group and that is why they handled the case badly from the start preferring to take care of their own mess?
I think the alcohol pics tells us he also might have been wasted or possibly he wanted to party. He might even be alluding to an alcohol induced rage or black out...not knowing exactly what he/they did. Does this fit in? Meeting up with Renee at that time? She would have gotten in a police car, thinking it was safe.

What and why the cover up here, because there is one. There are people in this town who know something, but cannot or will not talk. There are other suspicious deaths in the area iirc and I remember seeing a sheriffs badge and a bullet in her memorial site (does anyone else?) which I thought at the time would fit with a killer who would send postcards. He would be drawn to the site and feel compelled to mock by leaving something else that he considers telling.
What do you think am I on the right track?

[sharlock]

Hi LetsBeConcerned :seeya: .

Can the FBI take the DNA from the back of the 'licked' stamped post-card and run a DNA sweep on it to see if it matches any in the DNA base ? Was this done already ?
I doubt it they seem to prefer the mystery down that way.:cool:

[Ron]

Hi sharlock :seeya:.

Very recently l read a News article mentioning Elliot Ness and a story where a murder was solved by the DNA taken from a used plastic water bottle and a used stamp .

The vanishing of the water containors fits in with your 'conspiracy theory' .

Perhaps the FBI should step in and do some DNA testing and matching , and this will at very least rule out 'all ' in the DNA Data Base,, or may lead directly to what we are searching for ..


Why won't the FBI check this ''postcard stamp'' DNA out ?

[Lodi]

IMO the postcards could have been sent by someone involved with Renees' death but nothing on the cards give evidence of it. Sending cards and letters to local newspapers pretending to know something is very common when people come up missing or found murdered. The clues on the cards were not close enough to the truth to make me think the sender knew where her body was. The person who sent the cards is very interested in murders and crime in general. They would know of Eliot Ness and also dNA. They probably didn't lick the stamps.

To me, all the evidence points to Renee going on a drug binge and because no one made a reasonable effort to aid her, she ended up dead. I think she walked that road out of her head until she felt herself slipping away. She slowly shed all her belongings and clothes, lay down and crossed her arms and accepted death or whatever comes. Some people do the same thing in cities and are found in alleyways. jmho

[Ron]

Renee was seen crying on the Court House steps . These tears may have been withdrawl tears ,, suggesting that Renee was in drug-withdrawl and desperately searching for drugs ...

---- If the above is correct then Renee Fox fell vctim to poor communication and ability to communicate with her loved ones on what could happen to her once she received her insurance money.

Surely someone in Renee's life must have assumed that Renee was at risk of taking drugs again , as soon as she received her insurance money .

If Renee had approached someone and asked for guidance and communication on how to stay away from drugs once she got her money perhaps none of this horror for Renee woud have happened.

Renee was happy and things were good and someone must have anticipated that Renee might fall back into drugs once she had the insurance money ,to do so .

Her mom saw her happy , she had cash , all was good , so why was Renee crying on the Court House steps .... ?

.... ''Drug withdrawl'' makes us cry. It is a biological thing where our body releases drug withdrawl toxins through our tears etc,, and the person in ''crying withdrawl'' does not know why they are crying and they will stay in that crying depression state until they figure out that more drugs will help stop the crying and psuedo-depression assocated with it .

Renee needed drug councelling and stat , but fell victim and was lost , to drugs , as so many many are today .

But of course there is more ,there always is .

There must be people hurting today,,,those who know that dear Renee did not have to die , as she did.

'' Bless you Renee '':rose:

[LetsBeConcerned]

Obviously the first postcard is a calling card sent by the killer. Imo the alien photo on top of a uniformed LE, tells us either he hates LE, or perhaps he is one, and is tortured by guilt over what he has done, 'I'm messed up, I'm a bad man'. LE could even be aware of a rogue cop within their group and that is why they handled the case badly from the start preferring to take care of their own mess?
I think the alcohol pics tells us he also might have been wasted or possibly he wanted to party. He might even be alluding to an alcohol induced rage or black out...not knowing exactly what he/they did. Does this fit in? Meeting up with Renee at that time? She would have gotten in a police car, thinking it was safe.

What and why the cover up here, because there is one. There are people in this town who know something, but cannot or will not talk. There are other suspicious deaths in the area iirc and I remember seeing a sheriffs badge and a bullet in her memorial site (does anyone else?) which I thought at the time would fit with a killer who would send postcards. He would be drawn to the site and feel compelled to mock by leaving something else that he considers telling.
What do you think am I on the right track?


I remember that discussion about this picture...


http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg230/Spudrod/DSC00540.jpg

[Ron]

ls it the assumption of the Police that Renee NEVER was moved and just layed down and died , where she was found ?

[Lodi]

A friend once gave me some nicorette gum to help me quit smoking. Everytime I wanted a cigarette, I would chew a piece of the gum. It wasn't helping at all so I chewed 2 pieces. Within 5 minutes I began feeling real bad. After another 5 minutes I was 95% sure that I had overdosed and was dying.
I couldn't bring myself to call 911 and tell them what I had done. So, I lay down on my couch, crossed my arms over my heart, closed my eyes and waited for death. I figured that this would make me more presentable when I was carried out. Somehow I pulled through the crisis.

[Ron]

It seems that Renee had not bought any drugs when seen crying on the Court House steps . It seems unlikely that Renee would ingest 'crystal meth' and then go sit on the Court House steps and cry .

Perhaps Renee did not have drugs at that time .

Enter ... unknown person who Renee got her drugs from .

It would seem realistic to assume that since the autopsy showed 'drugs' in Renee , that those drugs were obtained after the Court House crying event. Also it would be assumed that Renee used her Cell Phone to make arrangements to buy drugs ,, after the Court House event .

This then suggests that the person she met later is on her Cell phone still , and able to track , and that phone number should still be there on her Cell phone ,and that phone number is probably long dstance , somewhere near where she was heading for in her car .

Has Law Enforcement checked this out ?

[Ron]

http://cbs2.com/video/?id=23373@kcbs.dayport.com

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is a map that shows how the railroad line goes to where Renee Body was found.

In the upper right hand corner circled in blue is the Laws Depot in Bishop. The Museum is mentioned on the postcard. The Railroad stopped running in the 1960’s and the Laws Depot was turned in to a museum. Back in 1907 it was a Railroad Depot.

The Blue line in the middle of the map marks the Railroad grade.


The tip of the Red Arrow marks Where on Mazourka Canyon Road Renee’s Body was found.

The Red X marks where her car was found…

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/MapLaws3.jpg


The distance between her car and her body is about Eleven Miles….



5.2 miles north of Manzanar Station the railroad grade road intersects with the Mazourka Canyon Road 4.5 miles east of the county seat of Independence. On the southeast corner of that intersection is the barren site of Kearsarge Station. This was Independence's station, and the third Owens Valley location with the name Kearsarge. This is also the end of the easily followed route of travel, as north of here, the railroad grade has badly eroded, and is quite hard to follow.

<<< snipped >>>


Our last stop is the station at Laws. Here was another major railroad repair facility and yard. It was also the station for Bishop, and was as busy as Keeler or Owenyo. After the system shut down, some of the rolling stock and a number of buildings were moved to Laws. In 1966 a railroad museum opened here. The buildings have been used as a movie set, and the museum is one of the best in the state for folks who want to see what an old western railroad town looked like.

I hope you enjoyed exploring some of the old ghost towns along this ghost railroad.

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gtusa/usa/ca/ccrr.htm

;)

[Ron]

Was Renee's phone numbers that she called using her cell phone checked properly by Law Enforcement , or was there no appropriate advanced technology or funds or immediate concern that warranted this type of investigation on her behalf perhaps due to Police understaffing etc. ?

If so, is Renee's cell phone available now to her family ?

Where would Renee's cell phone with those calls still on it be now ?

[Ron]

Was Renee's car a two or four door ?

The driver's door was obviously unlocked . Were the other doors unlocked also ?

These should certainly be on the Police Documents and easy to obtain .

Wouldn't Renee lock the car doors when she left it , even if stranded out there ?

[Lodi]

If the person that sent the cards knew where Renees' body was, they would have mentioned Independence rather than Bishop. Actually, it's very likely that they would have given specific directions to her body. There were less clues on the cards than what someone could get from reading a newspaper.

[LetsBeConcerned]

If the person that sent the cards knew where Renees' body was, they would have mentioned Independence rather than Bishop. Actually, it's very likely that they would have given specific directions to her body. There were less clues on the cards than what someone could get from reading a newspaper.




I am really not sure why they mentioned Bishop but it could be because Bishop is the most populated city in the county and the only one with its own police department.

Bishop has a population of about 3,500…. where Independence has only about 574. The county of Inyo covers 10,227 square miles with only a population of 17,945.

Also, I wanted to add, there was another lady, Shaleen Duckey that went missing around July 12, in Bishop after Renee did… It took 2 weeks to find Shaleen’s body and it was also right near the road where she was last seen. I believe that her body was found the same week that the first postcard was sent.

“Disappearance remains a mystery to cops” could actually be referring to more than one person that disappeared up there. I know that it should be plural, but maybe a typo…. I will check to see if I have that article. But then again, the postcard sender could have chosen the words carefully.

There also really isn’t anything specific that you can say about where Renee was found other than 5 miles east of Independence. You would have to cross where the old train tracks used to be to get to the sight that Renee was found. I would guess that the distance would be about a half a mile from the RR tracks and her body.

You could also name the town of Kearsarge, but it is also hard to find a city that no longer has a building that still exists. And then identify where her body would be.

It was the Sheriff’s Dept. that said that Renee wasn’t there …

This was the title of an article written by Seamus McGraw and posted on the old Court TV website. Dated July 7, 2006…. Cops Say Renee Fox May Have Escaped the Desert and 'Could Be Anywhere'

So if Renee left Mazourka, how did her body get back up there~?

:shrug:

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is a copy of the front page of the paper that the “cut outs” showed up on the first postcard… the paper is dated July 1, 2006… I don’t think the postcard was received until July 29… I think some thought had to be put into it as there was some time that had past since the paper was printed.

The article also says that Renee left Mazourka…

:seeya:




http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/Rjuly1.jpg

[Ron]

Hi crimehunter

I found your theory on ,,,

:beer: >'' why the 'chips' were used on the postcard '' <:beer:,

....................

to be, :beer:''refreshing and innocent '' :beer:.

Renee would be proud of your help which l can see is guded by your , ''purity of intentions'' , which is good .

I was wondering if Renee's body was moved ? ? ?
In my Nursing career we folded the dead person's arms just like Renee's , so that they will fit into the body bag before the body[arms] stiffen .

Placing the arms bent , at that time, would be to allow it to be fit into the body-bag , and be transferred to another location before it got stff [about two hours], perhaps moving the body to a colder location ,,,yes ?
A Profession such as Police, Coroner . etc might do that,, but why ?

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is the continuation of the article titled “Disappearance remains a mystery for Cops, Family”
Dated July 1, 2006…

Lead Detective Paul Bedell is quoted as saying,

“There’s no indications of anything having to do with a suicide, even if that was true, we would have found her ”


So why wasn’t Renee found for 7 weeks~????
:shrug:


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/Rjuly1pg2.jpg

[Lodi]

I am really not sure why they mentioned Bishop but it could be because Bishop is the most populated city in the county and the only one with its own police department.

Bishop has a population of about 3,500…. where Independence has only about 574. The county of Inyo covers 10,227 square miles with only a population of 17,945.

Also, I wanted to add, there was another lady, Shaleen Duckey that went missing around July 12, in Bishop after Renee did… It took 2 weeks to find Shaleen’s body and it was also right near the road where she was last seen. I believe that her body was found the same week that the first postcard was sent.

“Disappearance remains a mystery to cops” could actually be referring to more than one person that disappeared up there. I know that it should be plural, but maybe a typo…. I will check to see if I have that article. But then again, the postcard sender could have chosen the words carefully.

There also really isn’t anything specific that you can say about where Renee was found other than 5 miles east of Independence. You would have to cross where the old train tracks used to be to get to the sight that Renee was found. I would guess that the distance would be about a half a mile from the RR tracks and her body.

You could also name the town of Kearsarge, but it is also hard to find a city that no longer has a building that still exists. And then identify where her body would be.

It was the Sheriff’s Dept. that said that Renee wasn’t there …

This was the title of an article written by Seamus McGraw and posted on the old Court TV website. Dated July 7, 2006….

So if Renee left Mazourka, how did her body get back up there~?

:shrug:

If someone was with Renee just before she died, I would guess they would know much more than was on those postcards. They would know her body was just off Mazourka Canyon Road. They could describe her clothes and any jewelry she may have worn. The cards contained nothing to prove that the sender knew more than anyone else. Cards from a pretender.

Renee was seen walking on the road on the route from where her car was found and the town of Independence. A high heat warning had been announced for the area. Along the road was found some of her belongings. A blanket, purse, wallet, $900 in cash, drivers licence, and some articles of clothing. Several people talked to her and offered help, including a ride to town. She accepted water but refused any other help.

Her body was found in a drainage ditch about 40 feet from the road. She was lying on her back, unclothed with no signs of injuries.

It seems that one of two things happened.
1. Someone found Renee walking or lying in the road. They killed her and placed her 40 feet from the road, nude with her arms crossed.
2. Renee died from heat exhaustion or a drug overdose after lying down and crossing her arms.

I found an article about the autopsy results on Shaleen Duckey.
http://www.inyoregister.com/content/view/97649/

[Ron]

Hi crimehunter :seeya: .


:beer:You are right, you can't keep your hands that way,because they fall down.I meant the person or people, who she was last with may have been some what culty because of crossing her arms.
Thought!
(I wonder if they where fixed to stay that way..which means the person who did it, had to use something to keep her arms from falling down..Maybe they used some of her clothing as rope and that is why they where missing, but that also means after she died they had to come back later to take the knotted rope off her/hands arms..
Clothing probably would not make a bruising or cause skin indentation like rope would.
This also makes me feel she was brought back to that spot and her body was altered before left there!)

(Sounds like someone who does that type of thing or profession would know that type of trick.)

This was then intentionally done as a message.Your reasoning makes complete sense and I hope this case is not closed. Please know all of us here are hoping that they find the person or people who did this to her....
I also say it was not a suicide...It was set up!
:beer:

------> '' Very interesting '' .

[LetsBeConcerned]

If someone was with Renee just before she died, I would guess they would know much more than was on those postcards. They would know her body was just off Mazourka Canyon Road. They could describe her clothes and any jewelry she may have worn. The cards contained nothing to prove that the sender knew more than anyone else. Cards from a pretender.

Renee was seen walking on the road on the route from where her car was found and the town of Independence. A high heat warning had been announced for the area. Along the road was found some of her belongings. A blanket, purse, wallet, $900 in cash, drivers licence, and some articles of clothing. Several people talked to her and offered help, including a ride to town. She accepted water but refused any other help.

Her body was found in a drainage ditch about 40 feet from the road. She was lying on her back, unclothed with no signs of injuries.

It seems that one of two things happened.
1. Someone found Renee walking or lying in the road. They killed her and placed her 40 feet from the road, nude with her arms crossed.
2. Renee died from heat exhaustion or a drug overdose after lying down and crossing her arms.

I found an article about the autopsy results on Shaleen Duckey.
http://www.inyoregister.com/content/view/97649/



Hi Lodi, :seeya:

So are you of the thinking that it is more of a social commentary ~? Maybe of the way the Sheriffs handled these cases~? Some other people do.

When I was researching the area, I found some interesting information that the name Kearsarge & Alabama Hills came from the Civil War and the sinking of ships. One side being North & the other being South… the Union ship Kearsarge sunk the (Confederate) ship, the Alabama…

This was mining country and people were naming their towns after whom they supported.

Not that I think it has much to do with Renee, But Interesting~!

PS… These locations are in Inyo County, California…Guess which is one more south…Alabama Hills of Course~!!!!




http://digital-desert.com/alabama-hills/
PLACE NAME HISTORY

The Alabama Hills gather their name from a Confederate warship responsible for wreaking havoc to northern shipping during the Civil War. Prospectors sympathetic to the Confederate cause named their mining claims after the Alabama and eventually the name stuck to these unique hills.

The fame of the C.S.S Alabama was both brilliant and short lived. Yankee warships finally cornered the Alabama off the coast of Normandy. There, in a running gun battle with the Northern steamsailer, U.S.S. Kearsarge, she was sunk in the summer of 1864. This event provided northern sympathetic miners to indulge in the art of "one-upmanship," by naming a whole mining district, mountain pass, a peak and a town, "Kearsarge".

Here’s another one…

Alabama and Kearsarge were warships of the Confederate States Navy and United States Navy, respectively, which fought off the port of Cherbourg, France on June 19, 1864 during the American Civil War. The Kearsarge was victorious, sinking the Alabama, bringing to an end its destruction of Union ships. It was very violent. A potentially critical hit by Alabama on Kearsarge proved futile because the shell failed to explode. Other shots bounced off chains hung on the Union ship's side. Alabama was hit hard, and Capt Raphael Semmes had to abandon ship. Some Confederate survivors were rescued by the British yacht Deerhound.
Edouard Manet produced a painting of the fight, The Battle of the "Kearsarge" and the "Alabama" now at the Philadelphia Museum of Art. He also did a painting, The "Kearsarge", now at Boulogne.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alabama_and_Kearsarge


:beer:

[Lodi]

Hi Lodi, :seeya:

So are you of the thinking that it is more of a social commentary ~? Maybe of the way the Sheriffs handled these cases~? Some other people do.

I believe the cards were sent to the Inyo Register to hopefully create more interest in the search for Renee. The photo of the weird law officer with beer and whiskey bottles next to him probably indicates the sender had no faith in the Inyo Co. Sheriffs' Dept.

The cards may have helped in finding her body by causing people to think about her. As I understand it, a local man found her after spending a lot of time searching on his 4 wheeler. He was doing the smart thing by looking for her along the road where she was last seen.

[dcar205]

So sorry for Renee's family. This will always haunt them.
Cannot see any vested interest for local authorities to
pursue this matter as someone could have literally saved
this girls life. It sounds like "it's not my job" type thing.
I expect it became more tempting to accept a ride as
she walked along, close to a highway in over 100 degree
weather in sanddles! To decide that this might be a good
time to take drugs is far fetched. She was intelligent and
educated.

My impression on seeing the post cards is this is a
younger man. Eliot Ness is so yesterday to people
in my age group. I have to think this is a younger,
more recent fan of his. The liquor bottles reminds
me of bars which were called "Speakeasy" in Elliot's
day. There was a movie "Speakeasy" about Ness's
life that went straight to DVD sometime in 2000.
The "batboy" story also mentions Eliot Ness killing
a relative of "batboy" in 1931. There have been
several movies about "Batboy", even a play!! Batboy
is very elusive! The potato chip bag, the word
"classic" stands out to me. The 1920's was all
about "prohibition". The mob got wealthy selling
black market liquor. I expect this person is considered
weird by anyone who knows them and is a big "Batboy"
fan but since this sad story has not received a lot of
media attention where someone might recognize
someone they know like this, probably will never be
solved. Unless someone is brutally murdered, bone
cracks and chips from a knife, gun shot, It is very difficult
to know what really happened when a body is decomposed.
Can't do a rape kit on a badly decomposed body so cannot
know if she was sexually assaulted. They can do drug tests.
Just my take on this, I am no expert!

[LetsBeConcerned]

Hi There, dcar205

WELCOME TO THE BOARD~!!!

:seeya: :seeya: :seeya:

[notrialallowed]

I am from Canada, so I understand where you are comming from, but now I live in the south US. I will bet my life on the fact that she was not 'enjoying the walk even though it was hot'..This is dangerous, miserable weather. I also used to live in Bakersfield and my birthday is June 24th...........

Dawn

[LetsBeConcerned]

Did the police check her car to see if the criminals left finger prints or DNA in her car?The perps may have been looking for something or maye even made sure she wouldn't get her car going again, also I thought maybe the reason for why her her car broke down.....Maybe someone fixed her car so she would brake down....To late now for checking that though...very sad!:(




I honestly don't think that they ever checked for fingerprints but I am not certain. The beginning of her car troubles started with a flat tire. Which was caused by the gravel road.

Renee's car was found by helocopter... From what I was told even the sherriffs cars got stuck too... and needed a towtruck.
:rolleyes:

[LetsBeConcerned]

I am from Canada, so I understand where you are comming from, but now I live in the south US. I will bet my life on the fact that she was not 'enjoying the walk even though it was hot'..This is dangerous, miserable weather. I also used to live in Bakersfield and my birthday is June 24th...........

Dawn

Thank you for your post, :)

Renee's body was found over 11 miles from her car. not many believe that it is humanly possible to walk that distance in that heat. Even if it was, what happened to her clothes & shoes~? She couldn't get that far without shoes~!!!

Blue Fox does live in another country and I found her questions thought provoking as most people have not been to the area. As the questions have opened up room for what is not being understood.

I would like to know how long ago it was that you lived in Bakersfield and is that the only main post office for the area~?

Welcome to the board~!!!

:seeya: :seeya: :seeya:

[LetsBeConcerned]

Some things leave me SPEACHLESS~!!!



Gun Shot Takes Life of Man "Burned Beyond Recognition" in Death Valley
Written by Tom Woods Thursday, 02 July 2009 14:12

The autopsy of a man who had been“burned beyond recognition” revealed that he died of a gunshot wound to the mouth.

On May 29th, staff at Death Valley National Park found the badly burned remains of a man in a wash about three miles north of the Wildrose Campground, about a half mile from where an unoccupied rental vehicle had been found on May 22. Inyo Detective Jeff Hollowell described the remains as “burned beyond recognition.”

Deputy Inyo Coroner Jeff Mullenhour has positively identified the body as that of 64-year-old Alexander Wong from Orange County. The cause of death was found to be a gunshot wound to the mouth. Whether this is a murder or suicide was not determined by the Coroner, who says that he made no determination as to mode or manner of death with the burned body.

The door remains open for investigators to find this death to be a homicide, but when we spoke to Death Valley National Park Spokesman Terry Baldino, he reported that the death may be a suicide and the burning an accident. Baldino says that it appeared the man was wrapped in a blanket with lit candles around him, possibly like a ceremony of sorts. If the man did indeed shoot himself, he could have rolled into contact with the candles.

http://www.ksrw.sierrawave.net/eastern-sierra-news/2245-gun-shot-takes-life-of-man-qburned-beyond-recognitionq-in-death-valley#comment-1812

[SaraSidle]

Some things leave me SPEACHLESS~!!!


what are you thinking LBC?

[LetsBeConcerned]

what are you thinking LBC?


It is really hard to be committed to any given thought at any given moment when it comes to all the suicides that are actually declared in this county. I think that the number could be as high as 20 for this year, in this sparsely populated area. I think it is Especially odd for those that drive for hours just to kill themselves~? :(

In the case above, to drive that far to wrap his self in a blanket in one of the hottest places on earth, could be deadly all by itself.

If he already had a gun, why go to the extra effort~? :shrug:

[LetsBeConcerned]

Death Valley scene of another grisly discovery
Wednesday, 03 June 2009

By Mike Bodine
Register Staff

6-2-09

Inyo County authorities are investigating a suspicious death following a gruesome discovery made Saturday in Death Valley National Park.

The badly burned body of a man was found Saturday just off of Trona Wildrose Highway, the same road where law enforcement officials discovered the body of an attempted murder suspect on Tuesday after he allegedly took his own life.

The Inyo County Sheriff’s Department was notified of Saturday’s discovery about 7:45 a.m. that day by the National Park Service and California Highway Patrol, who reported they had found a deceased subject in the park about three miles north of the Wildrose Campground. According to a Sheriff’s Department press release, the subject was found in a wash, “burned beyond recognition.”

Detective Sergeant Jeff Hollowell said yesterday that park rangers first located a rental vehicle believed to belong to the dead man near the popular campground on May 22; it was again reported by the CHP on May 24. The vehicle, rented with a long-term lease out of Santa Ana earlier in the month, was not reported stolen or associated with a missing person, and so an investigation was not prompted immediately.


Hollowell said it is not uncommon for vehicles to be parked on the roadside for a hiking trip in the park. “So, initially no red flags went up.”

Terry Baldino, public information officer for the park, said that on May 29, the park initiated a flyover of the area in a park plane. According to Baldino, the usual protocol for suspected missing or lost persons in the park is to conduct a flyover and then follow-up with a foot investigation.

Baldino said the plane and crew searched unsuccessfully until nightfall.
The CHP notified the Sheriff’s Department Friday evening that is was in the process of requesting a helicopter for an aerial search. Baldino said Park Service personnel started searching at 5 a.m. the next morning, and at 7:45 a.m., located the badly burned remains of a male subject in a wash approximately one half mile from the vehicle.

Sheriff’s personnel then took over the investigation for the Park Service and CHP and processed the scene. The county coroner then took possession of the body.

Hollowell said a small amount of oily brush surrounding the body was also burned, but he said the vegetation is so sparse in the wash that the fire, luckily, did not spread.

The press release states that foul play has not been ruled out. Hollowell said because of the “suspicious nature” of the incident, he may request the body be taken out of the area for identification and autopsy. Hollowell said he hopes some DNA will be extracted or other identifying marks can be ascertained, but the body is badly burned.

In the meantime, Hollowell said he’s still trying to determine exactly what happened between May 22 and 30.

Baldino said that there are several factors that may have contributed to the search not being initiated sooner.

He said, for one, the vehicle was not parked in a very visible area, and park staff is limited – considerably smaller than in the busier winter months – and so there are fewer patrols to remote areas. He said it would not be uncommon for a ranger to patrol a remote area just once a week, and so the vehicle may have been parked there before May 22.

Baldino added that apparently the victim had no family, as no one had reported him missing, and the victim had just been laid off from his job and so his employer was not searching for him either.

Baldino said it was sad and unfortunate to see so many tragedies in the park and he pointed a finger at the flailing economy for the upswing in violence.

These two suspicious deaths follow another apparent self-inflicted gunshot fatality in the Ibex Dunes area, in the southern portion of the park, which happened in the last two weeks. Baldino said that with major criminal cases, the nearest county sheriff’s department handles the case. The Ibex incident is being handled by the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department.
Last Updated ( Friday, 10 July 2009 )

http://www.inyoregister.com/content/view/120938/1/


Sounds like a whole lot of excuses to me. :no:

[LetsBeConcerned]

Man Found "Burned Beyond Recognition" in Death Valley

Written by Tom Woods
Monday, 01 June 2009 15:42

Law Enforcement uncovered another mystery from the desert after searchers in Death Valley National Park found the body of a man “burned beyond recognition.”

Inyo Sheriff’s Detective Jeff Hollowell said that on or about May 22, a Death Valley Park Ranger found a rental vehicle off of the Trona Wildrose Highway. The vehicle was not reported stolen and there were no reports of a missing person associated with the vehicle. A week later on Friday the 29th of May, Park Service staff started a search and rescue effort in the area near the vehicle in an attempt to find the driver.

At about 7:45 in the morning on Saturday, Park Service searchers found the badly burned remains of a man in a wash about three miles north of the Wildrose Campground. The body was about a half mile from where the vehicle had been found. Detective Hollowell described the remains as “burned beyond recognition.”

Whether this is a murder or something else has not been determined for certain. Investigators say that foul play has not been ruled out. The cause and manner of death is expected to be determined by an autopsy scheduled this week.

Hollowell said that the name of the person believed to have died in this incident won’t be released until the remains are positively identified and the next of kin notified.


http://www.ksrw.sierrawave.net/eastern-sierra-news/2129-man-found-qburned-beyond-recognitionq-in-death-valley

[SaraSidle]

Man Found "Burned Beyond Recognition" in Death Valley

Written by Tom Woods
Monday, 01 June 2009 15:42

Law Enforcement uncovered another mystery from the desert after searchers in Death Valley National Park found the body of a man “burned beyond recognition.”

Inyo Sheriff’s Detective Jeff Hollowell said that on or about May 22, a Death Valley Park Ranger found a rental vehicle off of the Trona Wildrose Highway. The vehicle was not reported stolen and there were no reports of a missing person associated with the vehicle. A week later on Friday the 29th of May, Park Service staff started a search and rescue effort in the area near the vehicle in an attempt to find the driver.

At about 7:45 in the morning on Saturday, Park Service searchers found the badly burned remains of a man in a wash about three miles north of the Wildrose Campground. The body was about a half mile from where the vehicle had been found. Detective Hollowell described the remains as “burned beyond recognition.”

Whether this is a murder or something else has not been determined for certain. Investigators say that foul play has not been ruled out. The cause and manner of death is expected to be determined by an autopsy scheduled this week.

Hollowell said that the name of the person believed to have died in this incident won’t be released until the remains are positively identified and the next of kin notified.


http://www.ksrw.sierrawave.net/eastern-sierra-news/2129-man-found-qburned-beyond-recognitionq-in-death-valley

that is real bizarre. I see your point. Do you think they are connected?