Discussion Thread 2007 (Part 4)

[Heyes]

I'm curious, Heyes .... "Now it all makes sense. We have the TRUTH". What actually makes sense to you now ?? And what TRUTH do we have ??

JMO

It's page after page of TRUTH! IMO
you really should read the book!
But if you prefer to keep commenting on it without the benefit of reading it, be my guest! lol

[Heyes]

As far as I can see, she never mentions the word kidnapping except for on the cover. But she refers to the "crime", etc. She has a spiel that she uses on TV that goes something like this....at first we weren't sure, now after writing the book we can put the pieces together and we know pretty well, (Greta, Bill, etc) what happened.

I wonder why she didn't call that black interviewer by name in the Colorado interview? That's the first time I have seen an interview with her where she doesn't call the interviewer by first name, or in this case, any name at all. IMO

Are you insinuating something?
If your looking for blatant discrimination you might want to look at how the innocent security guards were treated. Maybe that's how it is in aruba.
imo

[No Nic]

Are you insinuating something?
If your looking for blatant discrimination you might want to look at how the innocent security guards were treated. Maybe that's how it is in aruba.
imo

I was also wondering if there was an insinuation of racism in there, which is quite funny since it is well known that Beth stood up for the black security guards that were wrongly detained on the words of by the main suspects.

imo

[ortiga]

Why are you so stuck on who she dates? wierd!
Yeah I did read that part. Sad that aruba can't even hire someone to draw blood correctly. These people are so inept!
IMO


She has discussed her relationship with Ramsey in at least 3 interviews this last week.

[ortiga]

Are you insinuating something?
If your looking for blatant discrimination you might want to look at how the innocent security guards were treated. Maybe that's how it is in aruba.
imo

So why do YOU think she didn't get chummy with him like she has, putting herself on first name basis with Greta, Nancy, Dan, Bill, etc?

[ortiga]

I was also wondering if there was an insinuation of racism in there, which is quite funny since it is well known that Beth stood up for the black security guards that were wrongly detained on the words of by the main suspects.

imo

But according to a line of thought expressed often on this board, if they are suspects then they are guilty. One of the security guards is still a suspect, and IIRC has not even asked to have his status changed.

[ortiga]

It's page after page of TRUTH! IMO
you really should read the book!
But if you prefer to keep commenting on it without the benefit of reading it, be my guest! lol

Major portions of the book are already on the web. And, above all, if the blurb on the cover is a lie, then the book itself is a lie, IMO. The cover says the book contains the truth about the "kidnapping" in Aruba. But, from what I can see so far, the word kidnapping is not even mentioned within the covers of the book. And the purpose of the book is to bash every aspect of Aruba.

IMO

[No Nic]

She has discussed her relationship with Ramsey in at least 3 interviews this last week.

I'd hardly call a brief mention a discussion.

imo

[ortiga]

I'd hardly call a brief mention a discussion.

imo

No, not brief mentions. She has gone on about how of course they would find solace in each other considering they have been through similar experiences. One day at a time, etc. Lots of little tidbits. Then alternatively she has somewhat curtly told at least one interviewer that she doesn't discuss her private life. I think that was just before People magazine came out wherein she discussed her private life, lol.

I do hope she is referring to the loss of a child, and not comparing what happened to JonBenet with an adult going missing, possibly on purpose, possibly drowned, and so forth. I think finding your very young child dead in the basement is a little different. If she has hope and faith, then she would be hoping that Natalee did run away and will some day come home.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

I was also wondering if there was an insinuation of racism in there, which is quite funny since it is well known that Beth stood up for the black security guards that were wrongly detained on the words of by the main suspects.

imo
Did Beth stand up for Paulus who was wrongfully detained?:shrug:

[Luke Davis]

So why do YOU think she didn't get chummy with him like she has, putting herself on first name basis with Greta, Nancy, Dan, Bill, etc?Maybe he is a Democrat.:shrug:

[ortiga]

Maybe he is a Democrat.:shrug:

To me, it really stuck out that she didn't say "ya know, Dan, I" blah blah blah.

I don't recall seeing her in an interview where she didn't buddy up to the interviewer like they had always been best friends.

IMO

[No Nic]

Did Beth stand up for Paulus who was wrongfully detained?:shrug:

I don't think Beth feels he was wrongfully detained. I don't think he was wrongfully detained, either, I think he is in this up to his eyeballs.


imo

[ortiga]

Oh Oh Loving Natalee: Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,426 in Books



Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,499 in Books

[Luke Davis]

I don't think Beth feels he was wrongfully detained. I don't think he was wrongfully detained, either, I think he is in this up to his eyeballs.


imoI don't know the security guards were wrongfully detained. :shrug:

[JustMyOpinion]

But according to a line of thought expressed often on this board, if they are suspects then they are guilty. .


I haven't read that line of thought, could you link to a post authored by someone who stated what you allege? TIA.

[ortiga]

I haven't read that line of thought, could you link to a post authored by someone who stated what you allege? TIA.

I'm sorry you'll have to read the threads yourself. I don't believe you've been here for awhile, you may have missed a lot, and I don't have time to do the work.

[Luke Davis]

I haven't read that line of thought, could you link to a post authored by someone who stated what you allege? TIA.In many cases it is subtle, a recent case would be Post 263 and Post 273.

I get the inference that 2 suspects are not guilty but the others are. And "I think he is in this up to his eyeballs." indicates GUILTY to me. Of course, some of the posts are open to a different interpretation. What would "I think he is in this up to his eyeballs." indicate to you?

[Heyes]

Did Beth stand up for Paulus who was wrongfully detained?:shrug:

wrongfully detained? paulus? lol, more like wrongfully released!
If there was any honesty or truth that could possibly come out of that place it would be that paulus still needs to be sitting in a cell!
Seems some of his peers believe that he is still lying and hiding information. Not so far fetched that many, many of us believe he helped joran and knows exctly what happened to this innocent young woman.

[fairmaiden]

Nope, I disagree! Beth's words are the only ones that fit all the scenarios.
Beth is telling the truth!
Joran, his father and assorted corrupt officials seem to be the ones that "spew such garbage".
The truth is out now! More will be filled in if the kalpoes lawsuit ever sees the inside of a courtroom.
IMO

Heyes .... I KNOW I'm repeating myself .... but I never seem to get an answer. WHAT "TRUTH" is out now ?? Are you saying the TRUTH wasn't out BEFORE ?? WHAT truth did Beth divulge in this book??

JMO

[ortiga]

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,499 in Books

2 hours later: Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,666 in Books

[fairmaiden]

Yep! Heyes is beyond positive now that we have the TRUTH!
you really should read the book.

Perhaps you can convince me Heyes. Why should I read a book .... ANY book .... proclaiming to be the "TRUTH" .... when the author of the book claims things placed in quotations are not necessarily accurate ???

JMO

[Heyes]

I haven't read that line of thought, could you link to a post authored by someone who stated what you allege? TIA.

In many cases it is subtle, a recent case would be Post 263 and Post 273.

I get the inference that 2 suspects are not guilty but the others are. And "I think he is in this up to his eyeballs." indicates GUILTY to me. Of course, some of the posts are open to a different interpretation. What would "I think he is in this up to his eyeballs." indicate to you?

Because of his actions, demeaner and lies, not because someone named him a suspect. Filing joran, paulus and the kalpoes under suspect status was an "IT"S ABOUT TIME", moment for many of us! Remember we have seen all of this unfold on TV, our opinions are from many interviews of the suspects, the so called authorities on aruba and thousands of reports that have come out of that "hellish" island.

[fairmaiden]

It's page after page of TRUTH! IMO
you really should read the book!
But if you prefer to keep commenting on it without the benefit of reading it, be my guest! lol

I beg your pardon, Heyes .... I can most certainly comment on the front cover of this book .... and the misleading subtitle.

Have you read every book written about this case ?? Surely you're not saying I can't comment because I haven't read THIS book .... are you?? Did you go out and buy Joran's book, by the way ??

I have asked A question of those who WOULD answer .... ONE question .... "Was the TRUTH of the Kidnapping in Aruba" revealed in this book ?" I didn't have a whole lot of questions .... just ONE . The answer to that question .... NO !! There is no reason for me to read it.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

I haven't read that line of thought, could you link to a post authored by someone who stated what you allege? TIA.Try post 279.

[Luke Davis]

Because of his actions, demeaner and lies, not because someone named him a suspect. Filing joran, paulus and the kalpoes under suspect status was an "IT"S ABOUT TIME", moment for many of us! Remember we have seen all of this unfold on TV, our opinions are from many interviews of the suspects, the so called authorities on aruba and thousands of reports that have come out of that "hellish" island.

To be clear, you think they are suspects but you don't think they are guilty?

[Heyes]

Heyes .... I KNOW I'm repeating myself .... but I never seem to get an answer. WHAT "TRUTH" is out now ?? Are you saying the TRUTH wasn't out BEFORE ?? WHAT truth did Beth divulge in this book??

JMO

No it wasn't out before. we've been getting nothing but aruba pr rumors, Now, If you would read the book you will find out the TRUTH behind why the med jet was there. Julia renfro and her con game, the camera's, What happened with the so called police and the family of Natalee trying to get someone to put down their cereal spoon for two minutes and file a missing persons report. The run around they got from, the crazy people, Jorans words to Beth, paulus's suspicious behavior. etc.............
It all fits. There is so much that these nimrods put these poor people through. For instance, dragging out the cracked out dark haired girl when they all freaking knew it wasn't Natalee yet they, for what ever nefarious reason decided to put the family and friends through yet one more trauma. These people are going to go to a very hot place at the end of their stay on earth, Good!
imo
And whats with jorans cousin "the islands big time drug dealer/runner with his bright yellow jeep and boat? jorans cousin?????? with a boat??? Oh and jorans statements about his having to drink a case of booze to even get tipsy? He called his own mother a liar! (of course we knew that) Must have been because her interview telling the world how he was this good little sporter that never did anything wrong. I'm thinking he's worked real hard on being a tough guy and he didn't want mommy ruining his reputation. Even joran mentions later that he's a drinker, and it takes him mass amounts to even feel the buzz. See...Beths words fit what we know.
Might want to get out your notes and read the book. How can you sit there and still claim to be, on the fence, unbiased if you won't even think about hearing the other side. Also while your agreeing with the joran supporters you really should know that aruba steve was wrong, Beth does mention the government giving the workers 1 day off to search, She does talk about connecting and sharing and having wonderful experiences with aruban locals. Just not those that are related to or are helping joran and paulus deceive. You should not take any of our words for it. Read Beth's words. The other side is out there now, not just what aruba wanted us to believe. Time to level the playing field.
As far as her book goes........ whatever her ranking is on amazon, it really pales in comparison to the support and the number of interviews or bookings she is receiving. The majority here in the US especially those that have access to the airwaves are supporting her and believing her. It bothers aruba, we know this and that makes this book even sweeter!

[Heyes]

I beg your pardon, Heyes .... I can most certainly comment on the front cover of this book .... and the misleading subtitle.

Have you read every book written about this case ?? Surely you're not saying I can't comment because I haven't read THIS book .... are you?? Did you go out and buy Joran's book, by the way ??

I have asked A question of those who WOULD answer .... ONE question .... "Was the TRUTH of the Kidnapping in Aruba" revealed in this book ?" I didn't have a whole lot of questions .... just ONE . The answer to that question .... NO !! There is no reason for me to read it.

JMO

I think many felt they knew the truth on who kidnapped raped and murdered Natalee. This book just helps confirm what we felt.
Don't read it. don't really care, but you can only comment on the cover of the book for so long.

[Heyes]

Heyes .... I KNOW I'm repeating myself .... but I never seem to get an answer. WHAT "TRUTH" is out now ?? Are you saying the TRUTH wasn't out BEFORE ?? WHAT truth did Beth divulge in this book??

JMO

The truth is what these knucklhead police as well as joran & co, put Natalee's family and friends through.

[Heyes]

To be clear, you think they are suspects but you don't think they are guilty?

What? They can't be both, we have to pick one or the other?????

[Heyes]

Try post 279.

Not true luke, I don't think that just because anyone is named a suspect they are guilty. However in joran and the kalpoes case we had the numerous interviews and reports that we could watch that helped me decide these guys certainly know more than they're telling. I have come to the conclusion ( and I'm not alone) that both vandersloots as well as the kalpoes and I'm sure others, although we didn't get as many interviews or reports on the other suspects, are guilty of the death of Natalee Holloway. It's my opinion.and so far the more I hear,the more my opinion of their guilt is set in stone.

[ortiga]

No it wasn't out before. we've been getting nothing but aruba pr rumors, Now, If you would read the book you will find out the TRUTH behind why the med jet was there. Julia renfro and her con game, the camera's, What happened with the so called police and the family of Natalee trying to get someone to put down their cereal spoon for two minutes and file a missing persons report. The run around they got from, the crazy people, Jorans words to Beth, paulus's suspicious behavior. etc.............
It all fits. There is so much that these nimrods put these poor people through. For instance, dragging out the cracked out dark haired girl when they all freaking knew it wasn't Natalee yet they, for what ever nefarious reason decided to put the family and friends through yet one more trauma. These people are going to go to a very hot place at the end of their stay on earth, Good!
imo
And whats with jorans cousin "the islands big time drug dealer/runner with his bright yellow jeep and boat? jorans cousin?????? with a boat??? Oh and jorans statements about his having to drink a case of booze to even get tipsy? He called his own mother a liar! (of course we knew that) Must have been because her interview telling the world how he was this good little sporter that never did anything wrong. I'm thinking he's worked real hard on being a tough guy and he didn't want mommy ruining his reputation. Even joran mentions later that he's a drinker, and it takes him mass amounts to even feel the buzz. See...Beths words fit what we know.
Might want to get out your notes and read the book. How can you sit there and still claim to be, on the fence, unbiased if you won't even think about hearing the other side. Also while your agreeing with the joran supporters you really should know that aruba steve was wrong, Beth does mention the government giving the workers 1 day off to search, She does talk about connecting and sharing and having wonderful experiences with aruban locals. Just not those that are related to or are helping joran and paulus deceive. You should not take any of our words for it. Read Beth's words. The other side is out there now, not just what aruba wanted us to believe. Time to level the playing field.
As far as her book goes........ whatever her ranking is on amazon, it really pales in comparison to the support and the number of interviews or bookings she is receiving. The majority here in the US especially those that have access to the airwaves are supporting her and believing her. It bothers aruba, we know this and that makes this book even sweeter!

what is the proof that this man is Joran's cousin?

How do you know her book "bothers Aruba".....and that this makes the book even sweeter? Sounds like a bash Aruba revenge effort to me.

And I am surprised that she seems to be getting few interviews and not very important ones, IMO. She is repeating herself over and over, and probably that contributes to the scarce demand for interviews.

I find it very hard to believe that anyone who saw Twitty's actions on TV, at her fundraisers, etc, could believe without any critical thought what she has "written" in the book. Especially when it contradicts what she herself said before in various instances.

That right there looks like a field of red surveyors flags to me.

IMO

[ortiga]

Not true luke, I don't think that just because anyone is named a suspect they are guilty. However in joran and the kalpoes case we had the numerous interviews and reports that we could watch that helped me decide these guys certainly know more than they're telling. I have come to the conclusion ( and I'm not alone) that both vandersloots as well as the kalpoes and I'm sure others, although we didn't get as many interviews or reports on the other suspects, are guilty of the death of Natalee Holloway. It's my opinion.and so far the more I hear,the more my opinion of their guilt is set in stone.


What were some of the numerous "interviews" you saw or read of the Kalpoes?

[Luke Davis]

I haven't read that line of thought, could you link to a post authored by someone who stated what you allege? TIA.
Post 287

[No Nic]

Perhaps you can convince me Heyes. Why should I read a book .... ANY book .... proclaiming to be the "TRUTH" .... when the author of the book claims things placed in quotations are not necessarily accurate ???

JMO

That IS NOT what it claims. You (and others) have totally misrepresented that sentence (and others) of the book. IMO, YOU have taken one side's opinion of this book as your own, simply because you have agreed with that side for over 2 years. That is most definitely your prerogative, but I will not stand by and let you MISREPRESENT what is actually written, especially when YOU have not seen those written words.

imo

[fairmaiden]

No it wasn't out before. we've been getting nothing but aruba pr rumors, Now, If you would read the book you will find out the TRUTH behind why the med jet was there. Julia renfro and her con game, the camera's, What happened with the so called police and the family of Natalee trying to get someone to put down their cereal spoon for two minutes and file a missing persons report. The run around they got from, the crazy people, Jorans words to Beth, paulus's suspicious behavior. etc.............
It all fits. There is so much that these nimrods put these poor people through. For instance, dragging out the cracked out dark haired girl when they all freaking knew it wasn't Natalee yet they, for what ever nefarious reason decided to put the family and friends through yet one more trauma. These people are going to go to a very hot place at the end of their stay on earth, Good!
imo
And whats with jorans cousin "the islands big time drug dealer/runner with his bright yellow jeep and boat? jorans cousin?????? with a boat??? Oh and jorans statements about his having to drink a case of booze to even get tipsy? He called his own mother a liar! (of course we knew that) Must have been because her interview telling the world how he was this good little sporter that never did anything wrong. I'm thinking he's worked real hard on being a tough guy and he didn't want mommy ruining his reputation. Even joran mentions later that he's a drinker, and it takes him mass amounts to even feel the buzz. See...Beths words fit what we know.
Might want to get out your notes and read the book. How can you sit there and still claim to be, on the fence, unbiased if you won't even think about hearing the other side. Also while your agreeing with the joran supporters you really should know that aruba steve was wrong, Beth does mention the government giving the workers 1 day off to search, She does talk about connecting and sharing and having wonderful experiences with aruban locals. Just not those that are related to or are helping joran and paulus deceive. You should not take any of our words for it. Read Beth's words. The other side is out there now, not just what aruba wanted us to believe. Time to level the playing field.
As far as her book goes........ whatever her ranking is on amazon, it really pales in comparison to the support and the number of interviews or bookings she is receiving. The majority here in the US especially those that have access to the airwaves are supporting her and believing her. It bothers aruba, we know this and that makes this book even sweeter!

I don't know where you've been Heyes .... but we (( all of us )) have been treated to Beth's view of this debacle for the last 2 plus years. How can you possibly say you're only hearing Beth's side now ?? You didn't know where she stood until you read this book ??

I will say it one last time .... I have no desire to read this book. I have read passages on various other venues. Incidentally, for what she has said about Aruba .... I can't in my wildest dreams even IMAGINE why she sent her daughter there !!!

"The majority are supporting and believing her" .... THAT is really getting old, Heyes. NO ONE I talk to knows who Natalee Holloway is !! If I remind them .... they MIGHT remember . I can assure you .... anyone I talk to is not at all interested in this case. I believe it might be messageboard posters who have faithfully followed it.

JMO

[ortiga]

Perhaps you can convince me Heyes. Why should I read a book .... ANY book .... proclaiming to be the "TRUTH" .... when the author of the book claims things placed in quotations are not necessarily accurate ???

JMO

That IS NOT what it claims. You (and others) have totally misrepresented that sentence (and others) of the book. IMO, YOU have taken one side's opinion of this book as your own, simply because you have agreed with that side for over 2 years. That is most definitely your prerogative, but I will not stand by and let your MISREPRESENT what is actually written, especially when YOU have not seen those written words.

imo
Beth said "Quotation marks are used in the book for the purposes of readablity, not necessarily to indicate that the words in quotes are accurate."

FM said: "when the author of the book claims things placed in quotations are not necessarily accurate "

Sounds like an accurate paraphrase to me. The statement is not misrepresented here at all. And it is absurd, IMO, to say that quotes are placed in the book for readability. If something wasn't actually said, one does not use quotes....except in fiction.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

What? They can't be both, we have to pick one or the other?????I just want to be clear. I thought you thought that some of the suspects were guilty. Now, you seem to be saying otherwise.

[Luke Davis]

Not true luke, I don't think that just because anyone is named a suspect they are guilty. However in joran and the kalpoes case we had the numerous interviews and reports that we could watch that helped me decide these guys certainly know more than they're telling. I have come to the conclusion ( and I'm not alone) that both vandersloots as well as the kalpoes and I'm sure others, although we didn't get as many interviews or reports on the other suspects, are guilty of the death of Natalee Holloway. It's my opinion.and so far the more I hear,the more my opinion of their guilt is set in stone.

That's what I thought, you and others believe some of the suspects are guilty.

[fairmaiden]

The truth is what these knucklhead police as well as joran & co, put Natalee's family and friends through.

Oh I see .... so .... we're not actually seeing the TRUTH behind the kidnapping in Aruba .... we're seeing what Beth allegedly went through ?? After all, no one has been charged with "kidnapping" .... "rape" .... or "murder".. Is there any corroboration of Beth's TRUTH, by the way ??

JMO

[ortiga]

I don't know where you've been Heyes .... but we (( all of us )) have been treated to Beth's view of this debacle for the last 2 plus years. How can you possibly say you're only hearing Beth's side now ?? You didn't know where she stood until you read this book ??

I will say it one last time .... I have no desire to read this book. I have read passages on various other venues. Incidentally, for what she has said about Aruba .... I can't in my wildest dreams even IMAGINE why she sent her daughter there !!!

"The majority are supporting and believing her" .... THAT is really getting old, Heyes. NO ONE I talk to knows who Natalee Holloway is !! If I remind them .... they MIGHT remember . I can assure you .... anyone I talk to is not at all interested in this case. I believe it might be messageboard posters who have faithfully followed it.

JMO

FM check this out to see just how much interest there is in Natalee Holloway, as judged by Google searching.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=%22Natalee+holloway%22

It's interesting to see that most of the hits came from Birmingham, Alabama

So I would say that "the majority are supporting and believing her" doesn't say much. I think the interest in this case is evident from the opportunities that posters have had to ask Beth questions, or the Amazon reviews....just a handful of the same people from the same blogs saying the same things. I would guess there aren't more than 100 people in the US that actually follow the case.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

But according to a line of thought expressed often on this board, if they are suspects then they are guilty. One of the security guards is still a suspect, and IIRC has not even asked to have his status changed.
I have also seen the opposite, Beth is not a suspect, therefore she is not guilty.

[fairmaiden]

Beth said "Quotation marks are used in the book for the purposes of readablity, not necessarily to indicate that the words in quotes are accurate."

FM said: "when the author of the book claims things placed in quotations are not necessarily accurate "

Sounds like an accurate paraphrase to me. The statement is not misrepresented here at all. And it is absurd, IMO, to say that quotes are placed in the book for readability. If something wasn't actually said, one does not use quotes....except in fiction.

IMO

Thank you ortiga .... ;)

I was trying to figure out how I ((and others)) misrepresented this quote ??

JMO

[fairmaiden]

I think many felt they knew the truth on who kidnapped raped and murdered Natalee. This book just helps confirm what we felt.
Don't read it. don't really care, but you can only comment on the cover of the book for so long.

The book CONFIRMS the truth on who kidnapped, raped and murdered Natalee ?????

JMO

[ortiga]

Thank you ortiga .... ;)

I was trying to figure out how I ((and others)) misrepresented this quote ??

JMO

You didn't, I didn't, and I haven't seen anyone else misrepresent it. The sentence right before that statement is "I have tried to relate to the best of my recollection what took place during this crisis."

So, to me, it says that whenever she quotes the police, PVDS, anyone at all, you can't tell if it is the truth, or just the "best of her recollection".

IMO

[fairmaiden]

That IS NOT what it claims. You (and others) have totally misrepresented that sentence (and others) of the book. IMO, YOU have taken one side's opinion of this book as your own, simply because you have agreed with that side for over 2 years. That is most definitely your prerogative, but I will not stand by and let you MISREPRESENT what is actually written, especially when YOU have not seen those written words.

imo

Please tell me how I "misrepresented" these words ??

No Nic .... Did YOU buy Joran's book ?? Did you READ Joran's book in it's entirety ??

JMO

[Heyes]

what is the proof that this man is Joran's cousin?

How do you know her book "bothers Aruba".....and that this makes the book even sweeter? Sounds like a bash Aruba revenge effort to me.

And I am surprised that she seems to be getting few interviews and not very important ones, IMO. She is repeating herself over and over, and probably that contributes to the scarce demand for interviews.

I find it very hard to believe that anyone who saw Twitty's actions on TV, at her fundraisers, etc, could believe without any critical thought what she has "written" in the book. Especially when it contradicts what she herself said before in various instances.

That right there looks like a field of red surveyors flags to me.

IMO

And that's your opinion, so be it. I happen to think completely opposite. I think this was what she experienced in the search for Natalee. I believe she had overwhelming obstacle's. I feel she had some preconceptions about how the police would react, wasn't aware of what she was up against. I saw for myself how this played out it was on tv, papers, internet everywhere. world wide for everyone interested could see. In the end, it doesn't matter what Beth did or didn't do because she is not a suspect. The lies and the run around that joran and his father lead Natalee's family and friends on are unforgivable. Absolutely torturous. IMO!
There is only ONE reason for all this lying and playing games with this desperate family. ONE IMO.
Also, thanks to the interviews of the suspect and his father we got to see their behavior, their demeaner. Their lack of compassion for this situation. The blame game. That is SUSPECT 101 right there folks. case after case after case you see the same signs. To me this is textbook, date rape gone wrong. IMO!

[ortiga]

what is the proof that this man is Joran's cousin?

How do you know her book "bothers Aruba".....and that this makes the book even sweeter? Sounds like a bash Aruba revenge effort to me.

And I am surprised that she seems to be getting few interviews and not very important ones, IMO. She is repeating herself over and over, and probably that contributes to the scarce demand for interviews.

I find it very hard to believe that anyone who saw Twitty's actions on TV, at her fundraisers, etc, could believe without any critical thought what she has "written" in the book. Especially when it contradicts what she herself said before in various instances.

That right there looks like a field of red surveyors flags to me.

IMO

And that's your opinion, so be it. I happen to think completely opposite. I think this was what she experienced in the search for Natalee. I believe she had overwhelming obstacle's. I feel she had some preconceptions about how the police would react, wasn't aware of what she was up against. I saw for myself how this played out it was on tv, papers, internet everywhere. world wide for everyone interested could see. In the end, it doesn't matter what Beth did or didn't do because she is not a suspect. The lies and the run around that joran and his father lead Natalee's family and friends on are unforgivable. Absolutely torturous. IMO!
There is only ONE reason for all this lying and playing games with this desperate family. ONE IMO.
Also, thanks to the interviews of the suspect and his father we got to see their behavior, their demeaner. Their lack of compassion for this situation. The blame game. That is SUSPECT 101 right there folks. case after case after case you see the same signs. To me this is textbook, date rape gone wrong. IMO!

Like I asked you before....what is the proof that this man is Joran's cousin?

And........ How do you know her book "bothers Aruba".....and that this makes the book even sweeter? Sounds like a bash Aruba revenge effort to me.

I do think that most of Beth's problems in Aruba stemmed from her misconception........that the police and authorities would say "how high" when she said "jump".

You said "The lies and the run around that joran and his father".....what were the lies of the father?

IMO

[No Nic]

Beth said "Quotation marks are used in the book for the purposes of readablity, not necessarily to indicate that the words in quotes are accurate."

FM said: "when the author of the book claims things placed in quotations are not necessarily accurate "

Sounds like an accurate paraphrase to me. The statement is not misrepresented here at all. And it is absurd, IMO, to say that quotes are placed in the book for readability. If something wasn't actually said, one does not use quotes....except in fiction.

IMO

Well, I am glad you cleared that up. LOL

I know that I have placed words/phrases in "quotes" for emphasis, with no intent of quoting anyone or anything (kind of like putting certain words in all CAPS, for emphasis) There is no doubt in my mind that this is what Beth meant.

This is merely another attempt to demean Beth, fortunately there are some of us that know better.

imo

[Luke Davis]

I haven't read that line of thought, could you link to a post authored by someone who stated what you allege? TIA.Post 307

[No Nic]

Please tell me how I "misrepresented" these words ??

No Nic .... Did YOU buy Joran's book ?? Did you READ Joran's book in it's entirety ??

JMO

NO, I did NOT !!

Do YOU see how YOU put many of your words in CAPS ?? I am under the ASSUMPTION that you do this for EMPHASIS (readability, to get your POINT across). Correct ?? Is it not POSSIBLE that is what Beth MEANS ??

[ortiga]

Well, I am glad you cleared that up. LOL

I know that I have placed words/phrases in "quotes" for emphasis, with no intent of quoting anyone or anything (kind of like putting certain words in all CAPS, for emphasis) There is no doubt in my mind that this is what Beth meant.

This is merely another attempt to demean Beth, fortunately there are some of us that know better.

imo

Beth demeans herself, doesn't need any help from me. With those words in her "author's note" she can say that anyone she chooses says anything she wants them to say. She is not typing on an anonymous message board, she is using that book to make money, she is using that book to refer people to her "non profit" of which she is the president and CEO. And she is speaking about suspects in an active case.

She's no dummy, the quotes disclaimer is the heart and soul of her book, IMO.

[fairmaiden]

NO, I did NOT !!

Do YOU see how YOU put many of your words in CAPS ?? I am under the ASSUMPTION that you do this for EMPHASIS (readability, to get your POINT across). Correct ?? Is it not POSSIBLE that is what Beth MEANS ??

LOL .... You're cute, No Nic ....

Now, while this may be a habit of mine to emphasize a word, or words by capitalizing them .... no where do I indicate they may be inaccurate . That's the operative word here, to me anyway. She is indicating by her quote that some things she put in quotation marks are there for readibility, and might not necessarily be accurate. I can't compare that statement by her to my capitalizing words for emphasis ...

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Well, I am glad you cleared that up. LOL

I know that I have placed words/phrases in "quotes" for emphasis, with no intent of quoting anyone or anything (kind of like putting certain words in all CAPS, for emphasis) There is no doubt in my mind that this is what Beth meant.

This is merely another attempt to demean Beth, fortunately there are some of us that know better.

imo

No Nic .... This was Beth's quote !! I don't believe it takes a rocket scientist to decipher it. Another attempt to demean Beth .... Goodness, it was her quote !!

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Beth demeans herself, doesn't need any help from me. With those words in her "author's note" she can say that anyone she chooses says anything she wants them to say. She is not typing on an anonymous message board, she is using that book to make money, she is using that book to refer people to her "non profit" of which she is the president and CEO. And she is speaking about suspects in an active case.

She's no dummy, the quotes disclaimer is the heart and soul of her book, IMO.

Well, that would be my interpretation also, ortiga.

Oh I don't believe she is a dummy .... but doesn't her caveat say SOMETHING about the credibility of the book ??

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Beth said "Quotation marks are used in the book for the purposes of readablity, not necessarily to indicate that the words in quotes are accurate."

FM said: "when the author of the book claims things placed in quotations are not necessarily accurate "

Sounds like an accurate paraphrase to me. The statement is not misrepresented here at all. And it is absurd, IMO, to say that quotes are placed in the book for readability. If something wasn't actually said, one does not use quotes....except in fiction.

IMO

You didn't, I didn't, and I haven't seen anyone else misrepresent it. The sentence right before that statement is "I have tried to relate to the best of my recollection what took place during this crisis."

So, to me, it says that whenever she quotes the police, PVDS, anyone at all, you can't tell if it is the truth, or just the "best of her recollection".

IMO

NO, I did NOT !!

Do YOU see how YOU put many of your words in CAPS ?? I am under the ASSUMPTION that you do this for EMPHASIS (readability, to get your POINT across). Correct ?? Is it not POSSIBLE that is what Beth MEANS ??

That's irrelevant. :D

LOL Eury .... I think the Author's note, by Beth .... is perfectly clear. To try to spin that statement of hers to mean she is emphasizing something ((if I understand No Nic correctly)) is really, really stretching. In fact, it doesn't make sense, to me. Why would she be emphasizing something, and at the same time pointing out ....
"Quotation marks are used in the book for the purposes of readablity, not necessarily to indicate that the words in quotes are accurate." ???

JMO

[terrysdoor]

Actually, what I was looking for was a deeper understanding into Beth, her feelings and what she was going through in the early days/weeks/months of the investigation.

I believe I now have that understanding of the unimaginable horror she suffered with her daughter being gone without so much as a trace. I understand the turmoil, the roller coaster, the he!!, stress, mind numbing ordeal she suffered. IMO, it explains her *inconsistencies* much, much better than Joran *explained* his *inconsistencies*.

I am also glad that she has calmed with time and is in a better place than she was in those early days. It appears to me that some would prefer her to have stayed as she was then, more fun for them, I guess.

I thoroughly enjoyed the book and it is now being passed around my office. The 2 co-workers that have read it so far, have also enjoyed it and totally share my feelings and have understanding and compassion for this family and what happened to them while in Aruba. Neither one felt it was a bashfest towards Aruba.

imo

Good morning all...... "catching up"

No Nic i have read the book and i believe i may have been one of the first to do so here on this board and yes it is Beth`s feelings of what she had to deal with and i believe she is a different person today but the book does not tell the truth about what happened to Natalee IMO do you know what happen to Natalee?????

and yes i shared my book with co workers and one who was a Beth follower and believer in every word has know changed her opinion because of the differences in the book and the Beth we saw on tv for two years IMO

[terrysdoor]

LOL Eury .... I think the Author's note, by Beth .... is perfectly clear. To try to spin that statement of hers to mean she is emphasizing something ((if I understand No Nic correctly)) is really, really stretching. In fact, it doesn't make sense, to me. Why would she be emphasizing something, and at the same time pointing out ....
"Quotation marks are used in the book for the purposes of readablity, not necessarily to indicate that the words in quotes are accurate." ???

JMO

lol my high school english teacher would have a big problem with that statement made in the "AUTHOR`S NOTE" IMO

[JustMyOpinion]

LOL Eury .... I think the Author's note, by Beth .... is perfectly clear. JMO


Could you provide a link to the published author's note written by Beth? TIA.

[terrysdoor]

Could you provide a link to the published author's note written by Beth? TIA.

did you buy the book and read it i believe it is on page 2 or 3 IMO

[ortiga]

Could you provide a link to the published author's note written by Beth? TIA.

Has the book been published on internet? Is it an Ebook? Do you know where we can read it on the web? That would be a lot easier than retyping it from the book.

[HiLife]

LOL Eury .... I think the Author's note, by Beth .... is perfectly clear. To try to spin that statement of hers to mean she is emphasizing something ((if I understand No Nic correctly)) is really, really stretching. In fact, it doesn't make sense, to me. Why would she be emphasizing something, and at the same time pointing out ....
"Quotation marks are used in the book for the purposes of readablity, not necessarily to indicate that the words in quotes are accurate." ???

JMO

Does this mean you have read the book?

[HiLife]

Not true luke, I don't think that just because anyone is named a suspect they are guilty. However in joran and the kalpoes case we had the numerous interviews and reports that we could watch that helped me decide these guys certainly know more than they're telling. I have come to the conclusion ( and I'm not alone) that both vandersloots as well as the kalpoes and I'm sure others, although we didn't get as many interviews or reports on the other suspects, are guilty of the death of Natalee Holloway. It's my opinion.and so far the more I hear,the more my opinion of their guilt is set in stone.

This is how I feel after reading the book, too, Heyes! I am more convinced than ever of J2K's guilt.

While I wasn't sure of Paulus' participation in the cover up, after reading the book, I now believe he was involved up to his eyeballs. What was he doing at the Holiday Inn counter that morning? I can venture a good guess!

jmo

[ortiga]

Does this mean you have read the book?

Did you read the book that Joran wrote part of? Do you speak Dutch? I seem to remember many many comments on this board about "Joran's" book.

But I think not too many people here read it, unless maybe Chocoholic who speaks Dutch.

At least "Beth's" book is written in English, kind of.

[ortiga]

Maybe it's early morning giddyness, but HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Every time you post I feel like doing jumping jacks!!

[HiLife]

I don't think Beth feels he was wrongfully detained. I don't think he was wrongfully detained, either, I think he is in this up to his eyeballs.

imo

LOL - I was catching up backwards on the thread and saw this - I just posted the same thing about feeling Paulus was guilty up to his "eyeballs!"

Where does this thinking come from, that the mother of a victim should in any way apologize or stand up for the very people who are suspected to have had a hand in her daughter's murder/cover up??? People who derailed the investigation, made her lose precious hours in finding her daughter and have not told the truth and STILL have not come forward with the truth? :confused:

Do you think Mr. Jorj, head of the Aruban Department of Justice will "apologize" to Paulus for the public, humiliating smackdown he gave him? :rolleyes:

jmo

[ortiga]

LOL - I was catching up backwards on the thread and saw this - I just posted the same thing about feeling Paulus was guilty up to his "eyeballs!"

Where does this thinking come from, that the mother of a victim should in any way apologize or stand up for the very people who are suspected to have had a hand in her daughter's murder/cover up??? People who derailed the investigation, made her lose precious hours in finding her daughter and have not told the truth and STILL have not come forward with the truth? :confused:

Do you think Mr. Jorj, head of the Aruban Department of Justice will "apologize" to Paulus for the public, humiliating smackdown he gave him? :rolleyes:

jmo

The 9 or so people are suspected of possibly being involved in a possible murder, there was no crime proven to have occurred. So, it is inaccurate, IMO, to say "people who are suspected to have a hand in her daughter's murder" I think you have to put in the word "suspected" before the word "murder", to be more accurate.

And yes, Beth should fall to her knees in shame for all the accusations she made publicly against the boys and their families. The only reason she got away with it is because they are foreigners. If they had been suspects in the US she would have had a gag in her mouth so fast it would make our heads spin.

Natalee's mysterious disappearance does not justify the sordid unproven accusations that that mother made on TV. We don't do that in our country, it's against our moral beliefs and legal system too.

Now of course she explains how her faith got her through her trying time in Aruba. But apparently her faith didn't help her act morally on TV.

IMO

[fairmaiden]

Did you read the book that Joran wrote part of? Do you speak Dutch? I seem to remember many many comments on this board about "Joran's" book.

But I think not too many people here read it, unless maybe Chocoholic who speaks Dutch.

At least "Beth's" book is written in English, kind of.

Morning, ortiga .... I think you're right about who read, or didn't read Joran's book . There certainly was LOTS of discussion about it.

JMO

[HiLife]

The 9 or so people are suspected of possibly being involved in a possible murder, there was no crime proven to have occurred. So, it is inaccurate, IMO, to say "people who are suspected to have a hand in her daughter's murder" I think you have to put in the word "suspected" before the word "murder", to be more accurate.

And yes, Beth should fall to her knees in shame for all the accusations she made publicly against the boys and their families. The only reason she got away with it is because they are foreigners. If they had been suspects in the US she would have had a gag in her mouth so fast it would make our heads spin.

Natalee's mysterious disappearance does not justify the sordid unproven accusations that that mother made on TV. We don't do that in our country, it's against our moral beliefs and legal system too.

Now of course she explains how her faith got her through her trying time in Aruba. But apparently her faith didn't help her act morally on TV.

IMO

I see a lot of unproven, sordid accusations made against Beth. The Van der Sloot family should be falling on THEIR knees, out of utter shame, begging Beth's forgiveness for having derailed the investigation, making her lose precious time to find her daughter and for enabling their monster son into the suspected muderer he is.

Shame on those men, J2K! Shame on the Van der Sloots! Despicable. If it were here in the U.S., those three (and possibly the father) would all be on trial about now, IMO.

I'm sure it doesn't matter to Beth what you think of her faith, seems this kind of faith inspires detractors all the time. Her deep, abiding faith is there in her book for all to plainly see.

jmo

[HiLife]

Morning, ortiga .... I think you're right about who read, or didn't read Joran's book . There certainly was LOTS of discussion about it.

JMO

It was asked and answered MANY time. YES, many of us read ALL the translations out there - both by Joran's supporters and his detractors. This is why we were able to discuss it.

Now, I see many commentaries by you on Beth's book - have you read it?

jmo

[terrysdoor]

Morning, ortiga .... I think you're right about who read, or didn't read Joran's book . There certainly was LOTS of discussion about it.

JMO

Good morning fair ...exactly when Joran`s book came out it was post after post of how bad he was and Joran said this and Joran said that and i bet not half the people who posted about it had read it IMO it was published in dutch right

i know this post will cause me to be accused of being a Joran and Aruba supporter but i am not i am simply wanting to find out what happen to Natalee
who IMO has been lost in all the book writing,touring, dress selling,foundation and money making IMO

[ortiga]

Good morning fair ...exactly when Joran`s book came out it was post after post of how bad he was and Joran said this and Joran said that and i bet not half the people who posted about it had read it IMO it was published in dutch right

i know this post will cause me to be accused of being a Joran and Aruba supporter but i am not i am simply wanting to find out what happen to Natalee
who IMO has been lost in all the book writing,touring, dress selling,foundation and money making IMO

It wasn't even "Joran's" book...the author was someone else. Come to think of it, somewhat like "Beth's" book, but then she does claim to be the author of "her" book.

I completely agree with you, about the merchandising of Natalee. And, I think the pictures of the very young child, Natalee, that have been shown on the interviews with Beth while she discusses "her" book are clearly designed to try to fix the image of Natalee in our minds as a child. Actually when she disappeared she was an adult, and had been making adult decisions.

IMO

[JustMyOpinion]

did you buy the book and read it i believe it is on page 2 or 3 IMO

I haven't read the book, I was asking the OP (who denies reading it),but opined about the author's notes, where on the web are the published notes re-printed?

[JustMyOpinion]

Why is Beth so absorbed with the petting of the 2 kids?

I can't answer for Beth, but she has made it very clear in the past that she believes Natalee was the victim of forced sexual assault, sexual battery or rape ( she doesn't appear to believe what took place was consensual petting), IMO. Joran, Deepak and Satish were detained on reasonable suspicion of involvement in the alleged crime of rape, and Dompig said what Joran described is a felony crime in Aruba, in his opinion. Perhaps the Prosecutor will go forward with a summation to court, even if it is to prove a lesser crime, JMO.

[Luke Davis]

LOL - I was catching up backwards on the thread and saw this - I just posted the same thing about feeling Paulus was guilty up to his "eyeballs!"

Where does this thinking come from, that the mother of a victim should in any way apologize or stand up for the very people who are suspected to have had a hand in her daughter's murder/cover up??? People who derailed the investigation, made her lose precious hours in finding her daughter and have not told the truth and STILL have not come forward with the truth? :confused:

Do you think Mr. Jorj, head of the Aruban Department of Justice will "apologize" to Paulus for the public, humiliating smackdown he gave him? :rolleyes:

jmo

If this case, ends up like the Duke case, yes. But I really think we know everything we are going to know... unless... the Kalpoe suit goes to court. At least Paulus isn't in over his head!:hat:

[terrysdoor]

I can't answer for Beth, but she has made it very clear in the past that she believes Natalee was the victim of forced sexual assault, sexual battery or rape ( she doesn't appear to believe what took place was consensual petting), IMO. Joran, Deepak and Satish were detained on reasonable suspicion of involvement in the alleged crime of rape, and Dompig said what Joran described is a felony crime in Aruba, in his opinion. Perhaps the Prosecutor will go forward with a summation to court, even if it is to prove a lesser crime, JMO.

why is it so hard to believe that Natalee wanted to go with Joran her friends didn`t seem to think it was a big deal IMO

[JustMyOpinion]

why is it so hard to believe that Natalee wanted to go with Joran her friends didn`t seem to think it was a big deal IMO


I don't know what Natalee' state of mind was or how she arrived inside the vehicle, or her precise level of intoxication via which intoxicants. Based on known facts and circumstances, I believe it is entirely possible she was the victim of drug/alcohol-facilitated kidnap.
Could you post quotes from "her friends" where they state they saw her leave with J2K and didn't think it was a big deal? TIA.

[terrysdoor]

If this case, ends up like the Duke case, yes. But I really think we know everything we are going to know... unless... the Kalpoe suit goes to court. At least Paulus isn't in over his head!:hat:

Hi Luke with lots of knowledge as always IMO any word on the Kalpoe law suit?

[Luke Davis]

I haven't read the book, I was asking the OP (who denies reading it),but opined about the author's notes, where on the web are the published notes re-printed?If you sign up with Amazon they allow searching and reading of exerpts. I read some of Dave's book that way. But I don't believe they allow linking. Several people here have read and discussed the book and appear to agree with the author's note. Finding the notes somewhere else, I doubt, would be more reliable than what has been posted here at CL.:patriot:

[fairmaiden]

Good morning fair ...exactly when Joran`s book came out it was post after post of how bad he was and Joran said this and Joran said that and i bet not half the people who posted about it had read it IMO it was published in dutch right

i know this post will cause me to be accused of being a Joran and Aruba supporter but i am not i am simply wanting to find out what happen to Natalee
who IMO has been lost in all the book writing,touring, dress selling,foundation and money making IMO

GREAT post terry, and good morning .... I agree with you. There WAS lots of discussion about Joran's book. That's why I don't understand the question asked of me all the time .... especially when I've made it clear I have no intention of reading the book.

I wonder why there is this constant "urging" to put it nicely, to buy this book .... to be reminded constantly that I didn't read the book. Surely those people understand, there are LARGE excerpts from this book all OVER the place .... just like there were of Joran's book .

I keep saying, I had one question, which wasn't answered .... at least to my satisfaction. By the way, terry .... thank you for answering questions when you first said you had read the book.

JMO

[JustMyOpinion]

If you sign up with Amazon they allow searching and reading of exerpts. I read some of Dave's book that way. But I don't believe they allow linking. Several people here have read and discussed the book and appear to agree with the author's note. Finding the notes somewhere else, I doubt, would be more reliable than what has been posted here at CL.:patriot:


Does Amazon have excerpts of the author's notes?
( I read excerpt of first chapter on the Barnes site).

[Luke Davis]

Hi Luke with lots of knowledge as always IMO any word on the Kalpoe law suit?I haven't heard anything new. IIRC there is a court hearing in November.:seeya:

[JustMyOpinion]

GREAT post terry, and good morning .... I agree with you. There WAS lots of discussion about Joran's book. That's why I don't understand the question asked of me all the time .... especially when I've made it clear I have no intention of reading the book.

I wonder why there is this constant "urging" to put it nicely, to buy this book .... to be reminded constantly that I didn't read the book. when you first said you had read the book.

JMO

I don't care if you read it or buy it, I asked a question.
I was interested in reading the author's notes, since you opined about their content, it appears they aren't published anywhere on the web?
How can you form an opinion about something you haven't read?

[Luke Davis]

Does Amazon have excerpts of the author's notes?
( I read excerpt of first chapter on the Barnes site).
I plan to take a look when I get caught up here.

[ortiga]

I can't answer for Beth, but she has made it very clear in the past that she believes Natalee was the victim of forced sexual assault, sexual battery or rape ( she doesn't appear to believe what took place was consensual petting), IMO. Joran, Deepak and Satish were detained on reasonable suspicion of involvement in the alleged crime of rape, and Dompig said what Joran described is a felony crime in Aruba, in his opinion. Perhaps the Prosecutor will go forward with a summation to court, even if it is to prove a lesser crime, JMO.

I don't believe Beth most of the time, because of her contradictions, so I don't put any weight on her beliefs that her daughter was the victim of forced sexual assault, etc, as there is no evidence of that. Natalee was an adult, making adult choices..ie the drinking, the jello shot(s), partying, being escorted to her bedroom at night by Kevin Broday while she was intoxicated, etc. It is not much of an extension to consider that she would voluntarily make out with a boy in the back seat of a car or on the beach. Many kids do at the age of 18, I certainly did and so did all of my friends. And most of our mothers didn't know about it and would probably have needed smelling salts if they knew the details.

But didn't Dompig say that the higher authorities didn't agree with him? You could post that interview if you like, there is some confusion there. Dompig also said that Natalee was reported to have drugs in possession, so if she was under the influence of drugs it would most likely have been her own choice, if Dompig is to be believed that she was in possession. And de Vries, IIRC.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

exerpt (http://www.al.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/news/1191399527281350.xml&coll=2)

The two women wrote the 231-page book over the summer, drawing largely from Holloway's journals and from notes she'd written before speaking to school and church groups and victim's rights organizations, Tillman said.

[terrysdoor]

GREAT post terry, and good morning .... I agree with you. There WAS lots of discussion about Joran's book. That's why I don't understand the question asked of me all the time .... especially when I've made it clear I have no intention of reading the book.

I wonder why there is this constant "urging" to put it nicely, to buy this book .... to be reminded constantly that I didn't read the book. Surely those people understand, there are LARGE excerpts from this book all OVER the place .... just like there were of Joran's book .

I keep saying, I had one question, which wasn't answered .... at least to my satisfaction. By the way, terry .... thank you for answering questions when you first said you had read the book.

JMO

thanks fair.... i may have been one of the first to read Beth`s book that post here and some did not believe what i was saying that was in the book because i have an open mind and i can`t just accuse people of crimes that there is no proof of IMO

[terrysdoor]

I don't care if you read it or buy it, I asked a question.
I was interested in reading the author's notes, since you opined about their content, it appears they aren't published anywhere on the web?
How can you form an opinion about something you haven't read?

do you not believe that is what the "AUTHOR`S NOTE" says :shrug:

[ortiga]

"He ordered a ‘yard whiskey coke’ and bought Natalee a shot of 151 proof rum, a very potent liquor. It’s frightening to hear this, because I’m sure Natalee didn’t know the strength of this drink."

my disclaimer: quotes for readability.

If Beth is sure that Natalee did not know the strength of this drink, when she was reported by her friends to have been drinking since 10 am every day, "red fires" IIRC, than I am not surprised that she was also frightened to hear that Natalee was voluntarily making out with a boy.

Beth didn't know about her daughter's private behavior, IMO, just as most mothers (and fathers) of older teens don't know either.

The problem comes when the mother tries to villify and convict the male portion of the "date" to try to preserve an unrealistic portrait of her own adult daughter.

IMO

[JustMyOpinion]

I don't believe Beth most of the time, because of her contradictions, so I don't put any weight on her beliefs that her daughter was the victim of forced sexual assault, etc, as there is no evidence of that.
IMO


I don't know what is contained in the evidentiary file, have you read it?
I think there was sufficient evidence to prolong the detention of J2K, and at a point in time, to re-arrest the Kalpoes. It appears thus far, the prosecutor lacks sufficient evidence to prove the serious crimes alleged, perhaps he/she will bring a summation on lesser charges.

[ortiga]

I haven't read the book, I was asking the OP (who denies reading it),but opined about the author's notes, where on the web are the published notes re-printed?

I don't understand the question. Are you meaning to say that we should not comment on the book unless we can show a sales slip? Portions of the book are being released in many sites on the internet. I'm sure you are aware of this?

[fairmaiden]

I don't care if you read it or buy it, I asked a question.
I was interested in reading the author's notes, since you opined about their content, it appears they aren't published anywhere on the web?
How can you form an opinion about something you haven't read?

JMO .... I'm not at all sure what the problem you're having is. Are you saying I can't comment on "Author's Notes" I've seen both here on this forum, and on various OTHER forums. Are you saying I actually have to read the book before I can comment on those Author's Notes??

I am doing much the same as others did when commenting about Joran's book. THEY didn't buy it .... THEY didn't read it .... have acknowledged that .... yet there was no hesitation on their part about commenting on it.

JMO

[JustMyOpinion]

[QUOTE=ortiga;9024982
The problem comes when the mother tries to villify and convict the male portion of the "date" to try to preserve an unrealistic portrait of her own adult daughter.

IMO[/QUOTE]

I see no evidence that Joran and Natalee were dating.
Joran showed up near closing time, claims to have purchased the last drink he saw Natalee consume.
He admits he left C&C with Natalee in the vehicle driven by Deepak.
Nobody known ( aside from J2K) has stated they have seen or spoken to Natalee since the vehicle pulled away from the curb.
Joran made many inconsistent statements ( according to Dompig), he lacks any corroboration for his latest story, and his version does not match the Kalpoes.
If Beth appears to "villify" Joran, it is because she has made it clear she believes he committed crimes against her daughter, IMO. Since the local authorities suspect him and had sufficient evidence to prolong his detention, I think Beth is using common sense, JMO. And, most parents of victimized children would do everything they could to seek justice for their loved one, IMO. I just don't see anything unusual about Dave & Beth seeking justice for Natalee, and seeking answers/closure about what happened to her, JMO.

[JustMyOpinion]

JMO .... I'm not at all sure what the problem you're having is. Are you saying I can't comment on "Author's Notes"

JMO

Re-read my post.
No, I am not saying anything about what you can or cannot do.
I asked a question.
It appears you don't wish to answer.
Thanks anyway.

[ortiga]

I don't know what Natalee' state of mind was or how she arrived inside the vehicle, or her precise level of intoxication via which intoxicants. Based on known facts and circumstances, I believe it is entirely possible she was the victim of drug/alcohol-facilitated kidnap.
Could you post quotes from "her friends" where they state they saw her leave with J2K and didn't think it was a big deal? TIA.

It's a logical conclusion. If they had thought it was a big deal, they would have alerted the coach or the other chaperones.

Since no one seemed to care until it was time to leave for the plane, it is logical to understand that no one thought it was a big deal because it was not unusual behavior. If it had been unusual behavior, then someone would have thought it was a big deal, no?

I wonder how early she really received a call from Aruba.

IMO

http://youtube.com/watch?v=H3IzwDdZKqw
Beth Twitty:

Beth said she was able to make the identification of who she left with "through some of her classmates"

"It wasn't a secret who she left with"

quotes for readability

[terrysdoor]

Re-read my post.
No, I am not saying anything about what you can or cannot do.
I asked a question.
It appears you don't wish to answer.
Thanks anyway.

what kind of answer do you want the "AUTHOR`S NOTE" says what it says IMO Beth said she put quotation marks on stuff to make it easier to read it is silly to me for a "SPEACH THEARIPIST" to do such a thing IMO

[ortiga]

I don't care if you read it or buy it, I asked a question.
I was interested in reading the author's notes, since you opined about their content, it appears they aren't published anywhere on the web?
How can you form an opinion about something you haven't read?

FM did not say she hadn't read the author's note. And, she is entitled to post on whatever topic she feels like commenting upon, IMO.

[terrysdoor]

It's a logical conclusion. If they had thought it was a big deal, they would have alerted the coach or the other chaperones.

Since no one seemed to care until it was time to leave for the plane, it is logical to understand that no one thought it was a big deal because it was not unusual behavior. If it had been unusual behavior, then someone would have thought it was a big deal, no?

I wonder how early she really received a call from Aruba.

IMO

http://youtube.com/watch?v=H3IzwDdZKqw
Beth Twitty:

Beth said she was able to make the identification of who she left with "through some of her classmates"

"It wasn't a secret who she left with"

quotes for readability

Thank you ortiga i did not know how to to respond Natalee`s behavior those few days were no surprise to her friends IMO

[fairmaiden]

I see no evidence that Joran and Natalee were dating.
Joran showed up near closing time, claims to have purchased the last drink he saw Natalee consume.
He admits he left C&C with Natalee in the vehicle driven by Deepak.
Nobody known ( aside from J2K) has stated they have seen or spoken to Natalee since the vehicle pulled away from the curb.
Joran made many inconsistent statements ( according to Dompig), he lacks any corroboration for his latest story, and his version does not match the Kalpoes.
If Beth appears to "villify" Joran, it is because she has made it clear she believes he committed crimes against her daughter, IMO. Since the local authorities suspect him and had sufficient evidence to prolong his detention, I think Beth is using common sense, JMO. And, most parents of victimized children would do everything they could to seek justice for their loved one, IMO. I just don't see anything unusual about Dave & Beth seeking justice for Natalee, and seeking answers/closure about what happened to her, JMO.

JMO .... Used just as an example. The three individuals were charged with rape in the "Duke Rape Case". Are you saying , IF the mother of the supposed "victim" in this case, appeared on television .... wrote a book alluding to the RAPE of her daughter .... she would be justified ?? Those guys were declared "Innocent" .... taking it PAST the "Not Guilty" stage.

How can you justify anything by saying "Beth has made it clear she believes he committed crimes against her daughter" ?? Many people may believe that, but they can't print books and appear on television, promoting it all as if it were fact !! No one has even been charged in this case !!

I really don't understand that .... because Beth believes crimes may have been committed, she is free to write a book about it ??

JMO

[terrysdoor]

hey i just remembered something from the Dr.Phil show Beth appeared on she stated that she got a phone call on her cell that sounded like Natalee but she was waiting on her cell phone bill to see where the call came from IIRC anyone remember this IMO

[ortiga]

If you sign up with Amazon they allow searching and reading of exerpts. I read some of Dave's book that way. But I don't believe they allow linking. Several people here have read and discussed the book and appear to agree with the author's note. Finding the notes somewhere else, I doubt, would be more reliable than what has been posted here at CL.:patriot:


You can read some on Amazon but it is in a form that does not allow copying. The copy function doesn't word.

[ortiga]

I don't know what is contained in the evidentiary file, have you read it?
I think there was sufficient evidence to prolong the detention of J2K, and at a point in time, to re-arrest the Kalpoes. It appears thus far, the prosecutor lacks sufficient evidence to prove the serious crimes alleged, perhaps he/she will bring a summation on lesser charges.

You haven't seen the evidentiary file? That surprises me.

Yes, I agree, it does appear that the prosector lacks sufficient evidence to prove any crimes ever took place. The crimes were not even alleged, they were suspected of happening but no indictment took place.

[fairmaiden]

Re-read my post.
No, I am not saying anything about what you can or cannot do.
I asked a question.
It appears you don't wish to answer.
Thanks anyway.

I believe one of your questions to me was .... How can I comment on something I haven't read ?? Was it not ??

JMO

[HiLife]

I don't care if you read it or buy it, I asked a question.
I was interested in reading the author's notes, since you opined about their content, it appears they aren't published anywhere on the web?
How can you form an opinion about something you haven't read?

Yeah, good luck with that, JMO! lol!

The difference, of course, is that Joran's book is not for sale here in the U.S. and is written in Dutch. Several of us here, who do not support Joran, actually took the time to read whatever translation was available on the web, in order to better inform ourselves and participate in discussion. We did all we could.

We discussed the book because we actually read all that was translated. Big difference when there is a book available here in the U.S. and it is written in English. "Knowledge is power."

JMO

[ortiga]

I see no evidence that Joran and Natalee were dating.
Joran showed up near closing time, claims to have purchased the last drink he saw Natalee consume.
He admits he left C&C with Natalee in the vehicle driven by Deepak.
Nobody known ( aside from J2K) has stated they have seen or spoken to Natalee since the vehicle pulled away from the curb.
Joran made many inconsistent statements ( according to Dompig), he lacks any corroboration for his latest story, and his version does not match the Kalpoes.
If Beth appears to "villify" Joran, it is because she has made it clear she believes he committed crimes against her daughter, IMO. Since the local authorities suspect him and had sufficient evidence to prolong his detention, I think Beth is using common sense, JMO. And, most parents of victimized children would do everything they could to seek justice for their loved one, IMO. I just don't see anything unusual about Dave & Beth seeking justice for Natalee, and seeking answers/closure about what happened to her, JMO.


I didn't say "dating" I said "date", and that is what it looks like to me. He goes to the bar at the invitation of some of the MB students, he stays with his friends and Natalee asks him to dance, which he declines. Eventually she invites him to do a jello shot off her belly button while she lies on the bar. If indeed she offered the jello shot and it was not forced upon her, then she was in effect buying him a drink. Then he bought her one. Big deal. His interest in her then picks up, when offered the jello shot. Then, according to the mother, she asks Joran for a ride.

Much of this comes from Joran and, like Greta, I am inclined to believe him.

I believe 1 of Natalee's male student friends said he saw her on the beach after C & C, and FEB made a cryptic remark that implied that she saw her after C&C.

Beth has made many inconsistent statements, and, after all is said and done, she has no moral or legal right to get up there on TV and accuse anyone of anything illegal or villify them. That's the crux of the whole situation, she has assumed the role of judge and jury and she has no right. IMO.

[HiLife]

I don't know what is contained in the evidentiary file, have you read it?
I think there was sufficient evidence to prolong the detention of J2K, and at a point in time, to re-arrest the Kalpoes. It appears thus far, the prosecutor lacks sufficient evidence to prove the serious crimes alleged, perhaps he/she will bring a summation on lesser charges.

This is what we can only hope for, JMO. Hopefully, an Obstruction of Justice in the very least!


jmo

[terrysdoor]

Yeah, good luck with that, JMO! lol!

The difference, of course, is that Joran's book is not for sale here in the U.S. and is written in Dutch. Several of us here, who do not support Joran, actually took the time to read whatever translation was available on the web, in order to better inform ourselves and participate in discussion. We did all we could.

We discussed the book because we actually read all that was translated. Big difference when there is a book available here in the U.S. and it is written in English. "Knowledge is power."

JMO

Hi you have read Beth`s book right? soooo what does the "AUTHOR`S NOTE" say IMO

[JustMyOpinion]

I
Beth has made many inconsistent statements, and, after all is said and done, she has no moral or legal right to get up there on TV and accuse anyone of anything illegal or villify them. That's the crux of the whole situation, she has assumed the role of judge and jury and she has no right. IMO.

Beth has the right to free speech. If any party feels she has defamed them, they can take legal action against her. I disagree that Beth "has assumed the role of judge & jury", it is impossible for her to do any such thing, IMO. Paulus was a deputy judge, though, and I think he used his power and influence to protect his son, JMO.

[JustMyOpinion]

JMO .... Used just as an example. The three individuals were charged with rape in the "Duke Rape Case". Are you saying , IF the mother of the supposed "victim" in this case, appeared on television .... wrote a book alluding to the RAPE of her daughter .... she would be justified ?? Those guys were declared "Innocent" .... taking it PAST the "Not Guilty" stage.

How can you justify anything by saying "Beth has made it clear she believes he committed crimes against her daughter" ?? Many people may believe that, but they can't print books and appear on television, promoting it all as if it were fact !! No one has even been charged in this case !!

I really don't understand that .... because Beth believes crimes may have been committed, she is free to write a book about it ??

JMO

Beth can use free speech to tell her story, IMO.
Anyone who believes they have been defamed by Beth can take legal action, IMO.
Nobody is forced to buy or read this book, it is a choice.

[ortiga]

That's the NEXT book.

Oh Oh Loving Natalee: Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,426 in Books

Barnes and Noble: Sales Rank: 2140

Harper One (the publisher of the book) : Loving Natalee: Ages: 18 and Up http://www.harpercollins.com/books/9780061452277/Loving_Natalee/index.aspx At what age is Beth suggesting the kids be exposed to her tales?

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,499 in Books

2 hours later: Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,666 in Books

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,756 in Books

Dropping like a lead balloon.

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #2,063 in Books 1 pm on 17 Oct

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #2,386 in Books 1:23 on 17 October

Also has dropped to #84 in the "spiritual" category

[JustMyOpinion]

I believe one of your questions to me was .... How can I comment on something I haven't read ?? Was it not ??

JMO

Nope.

[ortiga]

Beth can use free speech to tell her story, IMO.
Anyone who believes they have been defamed by Beth can take legal action, IMO.
Nobody is forced to buy or read this book, it is a choice.

lol a few idle threats by Joe Tacopina sure changed "Beth's Story". It didn't even take legal action. First of all it was that she HAS the documents that prove that Joran had sex with Natalee in her house....and the only thing that is known for sure is that JK2 gangraped Natalee (or the American tourist) on the island of Aruba. Etc, ad nauseum.


Now it's the cover of the book saying that the book contains the truth about the kidnapping, yet, apparently the word kidnapping doesn't even appear in the book. At least I can't find it, can you?

That's the whole trouble here...."Beth's Story" changes so much. The only reason she got away with the villification of JK2 and the family of Joran for so long is because they are foreigners.

IMO

[HiLife]

Hi you have read Beth`s book right? soooo what does the "AUTHOR`S NOTE" say IMO

Why? :shrug:

[terrysdoor]

Why? :shrug:

oh no big deal to me it was just my opinion that was doubting what it said and wanted a link or some proof (or it seemed that way to me) i just wondered if you read the same thing i did IMO

[JustMyOpinion]

lol a few idle threats by Joe Tacopina sure changed "Beth's Story". IMO


I don't think the threats by Tacopina and Anita "changed her story", but it did appear she exercised more caution when speaking in public, IMO.
I imagine the book publisher had their legal department review the book before a final copy was approved, JMO.

[terrysdoor]

I don't think the threats by Tacopina and Anita "changed her story", but it did appear she exercised more caution when speaking in public, IMO.
I imagine the book publisher had their legal department review the book before a final copy was approved, JMO.

please link to Anita threatening anyone......

Beth`s book is no where near what she said on tv IMO

[HiLife]

oh no big deal to me it was just my opinion that was doubting what it said and wanted a link or some proof (or it seemed that way to me) i just wondered if you read the same thing i did IMO

Oh, I went back and read the posts - seems you misunderstood JMO's post. JMO was asking for a "published link......." and was making another point altogether.

(my book is already loaned out :) )

jmo

[ortiga]

I don't think the threats by Tacopina and Anita "changed her story", but it did appear she exercised more caution when speaking in public, IMO.
I imagine the book publisher had their legal department review the book before a final copy was approved, JMO.


Anita threatened? When was that, link please, to the published report.

[JustMyOpinion]

Anita threatened? When was that, link please, to the published report.

There is not a transcript available on Foxnews of KG's interview with Anita van der Sloot.

[JustMyOpinion]

please link to Anita threatening anyone......




I don't have a link to KG's interview with Anita that was aired on FoxNews.
IIRC, Anita said she was considering filing suit against Beth.

[ortiga]

why is it so hard to believe that Natalee wanted to go with Joran her friends didn`t seem to think it was a big deal IMO

I don't know what Natalee' state of mind was or how she arrived inside the vehicle, or her precise level of intoxication via which intoxicants. Based on known facts and circumstances, I believe it is entirely possible she was the victim of drug/alcohol-facilitated kidnap.
Could you post quotes from "her friends" where they state they saw her leave with J2K and didn't think it was a big deal? TIA.

It's a logical conclusion. If they had thought it was a big deal, they would have alerted the coach or the other chaperones.

Since no one seemed to care until it was time to leave for the plane, it is logical to understand that no one thought it was a big deal because it was not unusual behavior. If it had been unusual behavior, then someone would have thought it was a big deal, no?

I wonder how early she really received a call from Aruba.

IMO

http://youtube.com/watch?v=H3IzwDdZKqw
Beth Twitty:

Beth said she was able to make the identification of who she left with "through some of her classmates"

"It wasn't a secret who she left with"

quotes for readability


http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/04/missing.teen/
Holloway's mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, who flew to Aruba to help search efforts, said about 20 to 40 of Holloway's classmates saw her leave.

------------------------------------------
That's why it is obvious that it was no big deal to the students that Natalee left with guys and they did not worry until she didn't show up for the plane.

20 to 40 of them saw her leave. No big deal.

IMO

[ortiga]

I don't have a link to KG's interview with Anita that was aired on FoxNews.
IIRC, Anita said she was considering filing suit against Beth.


IIRC she did not say that at all.

[ortiga]

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #2,063 in Books 1 pm on 17 Oct

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #2,386 in Books 1:23 on 17 October

Also has dropped to #84 in the "spiritual" category

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #2,563 4:18 pm 17 October

#91 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Spirituality
-------

IMO the word has gotten out that this is not a "spiritual" book.

And, IMO, her physical makeover has hurt her image and caused her to have less of an appeal as a sympathetic figure. I was just looking at some old videos in June of 2005, and she was much prettier as she was then, as I see it.

[terrysdoor]

Don't forget FEB's "I saw her there", referring to Natalee's last night at the hotel.

i have always thought that was a strange remark along with drinking responsible IMO

[ortiga]

Don't forget FEB's "I saw her there", referring to Natalee's last night at the hotel.

Yes. And the student that said he saw her on the beach and later recanted.

About the sudden drop in ranking on Amazon, I can't figure out what to attribute it to, normally promoted books keep their momentum for a few weeks at least. For one thing, she has said nearly identical things in most of the interviews, and these days people get bored easy. Secondly, there is the image of marketing her daughter which does leave a sour feeling in some mouths. Thirdly, even her publisher says the book is for over-18, so that leaves out the exact age group that should be warned about over-drinking and bar behavior. Not to say that is addressed in the book, though, lol.

If I were her I would have released the book in a time period that has fewer big hitters, maybe her book would have stayed in the public eye longer. Now....between Clinton, Greenspan, Clapton, Jenna Bush, and some other really important books.......I don't think a little "revenge on Aruba book" that is sprinkled with sexual references will prevail.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

http://harpercollins.com/books/9780061452277/Loving_Natalee/excerpt.aspx

[Heyes]

Acutally, since KLPD and ALE are extremely tightlipped about the investigation now, we have no idea who may or may not be a suspect. It could well be that ALE likes to keep the spotlight on various persons of interest while they're investigating a whole different side of the story that we know nothing about.

Extremely doubtful, but I'm sure vandersloot supporters are hopefull..
Beth in a meeting with aruba officials, concerned hoteliers and other business people says, "Oh come on. Everyone knows there was a cover-up."
In response Jorge Pesquera, president and CEO of the aruba Hotel and Tourism Association, shrugs his shoulers, nods in the affimative and says softly, "Yes......yes there was."
So it seems no matter which lead is followed, all roads lead to the kidnapping rape and murders suspects, joran and the kalpoes, I would include paulus as well!
IMO

[Heyes]

Well, I am glad you cleared that up. LOL

I know that I have placed words/phrases in "quotes" for emphasis, with no intent of quoting anyone or anything (kind of like putting certain words in all CAPS, for emphasis) There is no doubt in my mind that this is what Beth meant.

This is merely another attempt to demean Beth, fortunately there are some of us that know better.

imo

Good point!
yeah we know better!
Just more nit-picking at the victims mom.
imo

[Heyes]

Post 307


The statement was, There are some that believe that just because someone is a suspect then they must be guilty.
Once again using my post as your example is wrong. In this case I feel they have the right suspects, of course I feel paulus should be on that suspect list as well.
However Luke, this may not hold true in other cases. It's a case by case basis and I don't appreciate your using my posts to mislead. Twice!

[ortiga]

http://harpercollins.com/books/9780061452277/Loving_Natalee/excerpt.aspx

So if she was divorced 7 years, then dated Jug for 3 years, and got divorced after 6 years...that's 16 years after splitting from Dave. Matt was only 1 or 2 when they split up?

[ortiga]

Extremely doubtful, but I'm sure vandersloot supporters are hopefull..
Beth in a meeting with aruba officials, concerned hoteliers and other business people says, "Oh come on. Everyone knows there was a cover-up."
In response Jorge Pesquera, president and CEO of the aruba Hotel and Tourism Association, shrugs his shoulers, nods in the affimative and says softly, "Yes......yes there was."
So it seems no matter which lead is followed, all roads lead to the kidnapping rape and murders suspects, joran and the kalpoes, I would include paulus as well!
IMO


Have you seen confirmation of the nod in the affirmative and soft "yes yes there was"? I haven't, maybe it is just a story, "Beth's Truth".

[Luke Davis]

So if she was divorced 7 years, then dated Jug for 3 years, and got divorced after 6 years...that's 16 years after splitting from Dave. Matt was only 1 or 2 when they split up?She had sole custody after a long battle.

[Heyes]

The 9 or so people are suspected of possibly being involved in a possible murder, there was no crime proven to have occurred. So, it is inaccurate, IMO, to say "people who are suspected to have a hand in her daughter's murder" I think you have to put in the word "suspected" before the word "murder", to be more accurate.

And yes, Beth should fall to her knees in shame for all the accusations she made publicly against the boys and their families. The only reason she got away with it is because they are foreigners. If they had been suspects in the US she would have had a gag in her mouth so fast it would make our heads spin.

Natalee's mysterious disappearance does not justify the sordid unproven accusations that that mother made on TV. We don't do that in our country, it's against our moral beliefs and legal system too.

Now of course she explains how her faith got her through her trying time in Aruba. But apparently her faith didn't help her act morally on TV.

IMO

Maybe the moral lesson would be better given to joran. lol
That's the one who is severly lacking in that quality.

Why was joran sleeping at the school?
Why can't his own father remember anything about that night?
How did your son get home that night Mr. vandersloot? I dunno
Did he go to school the next day? I dunno! lol

IMO

[HiLife]

Extremely doubtful, but I'm sure vandersloot supporters are hopefull..
Beth in a meeting with aruba officials, concerned hoteliers and other business people says, "Oh come on. Everyone knows there was a cover-up."
In response Jorge Pesquera, president and CEO of the aruba Hotel and Tourism Association, shrugs his shoulers, nods in the affimative and says softly, "Yes......yes there was."
So it seems no matter which lead is followed, all roads lead to the kidnapping rape and murders suspects, joran and the kalpoes, I would include paulus as well!
IMO

After reading the book, Heyes, I am now convinced Paulus is in this, too! PJ2K (maybe now it should be V2K2 - lol!)

Pesquera must be glad he got out of Dodge when he did, now that the book exposes his confirmation of cover-up!

jmo

[Luke Davis]

The statement was, There are some that believe that just because someone is a suspect then they must be guilty.
Once again using my post as your example is wrong. In this case I feel they have the right suspects, of course I feel paulus should be on that suspect list as well.
However Luke, this may not hold true in other cases. It's a case by case basis and I don't appreciate your using my posts to mislead. Twice!

Didn't mean to mislead. Just picking some examples of posts which indicate that suspects are guilty. And if someone is not a suspect they are not guilty. I believe someone said Beth isn't guilty, she isn't a suspect.
:hat:

[Heyes]

I see a lot of unproven, sordid accusations made against Beth. The Van der Sloot family should be falling on THEIR knees, out of utter shame, begging Beth's forgiveness for having derailed the investigation, making her lose precious time to find her daughter and for enabling their monster son into the suspected muderer he is.

Shame on those men, J2K! Shame on the Van der Sloots! Despicable. If it were here in the U.S., those three (and possibly the father) would all be on trial about now, IMO.

I'm sure it doesn't matter to Beth what you think of her faith, seems this kind of faith inspires detractors all the time. Her deep, abiding faith is there in her book for all to plainly see.

jmo

The evil, The dark influence. doesn't believe in faith and doesn't want us to have that kind of strength. It want's us to surrender and give up. Beth has not!

[ortiga]

She had sole custody after a long battle.

I know that was said, but how long could it have been? If Matt is 18 now, that means he was at the most 2 when Dave and Beth got divorced. If all those numbers are correct in the book. I do believe Jug gave out a different set of numbers on one of the TV interviews.

IMO

[HiLife]

Maybe the moral lesson would be better given to joran. lol
That's the one who is severly lacking in that quality.

Why was joran sleeping at the school?
Why can't his own father remember anything about that night?
How did your son get home that night Mr. vandersloot? I dunno
Did he go to school the next day? I dunno! lol

IMO

"Morally Bankrupt" is the perfect term for Joran (and his dad). :read:

jmo

[HiLife]

The evil, The dark influence. doesn't believe in faith and doesn't want us to have that kind of strength. It want's us to surrender and give up. Beth has not!

Amen! Love how you put this!! <clinking diet ginger ale mugs>

jmo

[ortiga]

The evil, The dark influence. doesn't believe in faith and doesn't want us to have that kind of strength. It want's us to surrender and give up. Beth has not!

Can you elaborate on this statement? Who are you referring to as the "evil, dark influence doesn't believe in faith"?

[JustMyOpinion]

Didn't mean to mislead. Just picking some examples of posts which indicate that suspects are guilty. And if someone is not a suspect they are not guilty. I believe someone said Beth isn't guilty, she isn't a suspect.
:hat:

??? Beth wasn't in Aruba when Natalee was transported away from C&C in the vehicle occupied by J2K. What evidence suggests to you that Beth should be a suspect in this case?
I haven't read a post which offers an opinion that persons are guilty just BECAUSE they are suspects. People who believe they are involved cite the known evidence, IMO.
The facts and circumstances indicate the last three known persons seen with a living, Natalee Holloway are still lying, IMO. Their stories don't match up and they have no corroboration for their versions. Dompig said they are guilty of something ( according to RC, he told her they are guilty as hell).
I think Dompig is right. JMO. Thus far, it's clear to me that Paulus used his power and influence, and it appears he has won. No body..no case. He is despicable, IMO.

[Heyes]

I don't have a link to KG's interview with Anita that was aired on FoxNews.
IIRC, Anita said she was considering filing suit against Beth.

I remember that!
She hasn't filed yet. She has however called Greta to get her mug back on TV when Beth and Greta went back to aruba. She was turned down.

[Heyes]

Have you seen confirmation of the nod in the affirmative and soft "yes yes there was"? I haven't, maybe it is just a story, "Beth's Truth".

I don't have to provide "proof" or "confirmation".
This is a message board for opinions and I have the opinion that Beths words are true.
I feel her book answered alot of questions and debunked alot of the disgusting rumors that came out of aruba.
imo

[Heyes]

After reading the book, Heyes, I am now convinced Paulus is in this, too! PJ2K (maybe now it should be V2K2 - lol!)

Pesquera must be glad he got out of Dodge when he did, now that the book exposes his confirmation of cover-up!

jmo
It should be V2K2, lol
I think it's rather obvious that the nut didn't fall far from the tree in this case.
IMO

[HiLife]

I remember that!
She hasn't filed yet. She has however called Greta to get her mug back on TV when Beth and Greta went back to aruba. She was turned down.

Thank goodness for small favors! jmo

[fairmaiden]

[

The evil, The dark influence. doesn't believe in faith and doesn't want us to have that kind of strength. It want's us to surrender and give up. Beth has not!

Can you elaborate on this statement? Who are you referring to as the "evil, dark influence doesn't believe in faith"?

I wish you would clarify this statement, or elaborate on it, Heyes. Who is the "us" you keep referring to in your post ??

JMO

[Heyes]

Didn't mean to mislead. Just picking some examples of posts which indicate that suspects are guilty. And if someone is not a suspect they are not guilty. I believe someone said Beth isn't guilty, she isn't a suspect.
:hat:
It was misleading, Beth wasn't a suspect, she was nowhere aruba,and has now been without her baby for over 2 years. She has done nothing even remotely suspicious that would lead one to believe she is involved with her own daughters disappearance.
j2k and paulus (V2K2) acted with lies and malice from day one. Many of us thought they should have been picked up questioned and searched the minute we found out the truth about j2k's lies and the finger pointing at the innocent security guards.
The statement was basically a put down saying that some people here just think that if there is a suspect he or she must be guilty. By using my posts to back that theory up was incorrect..

IMO

[Heyes]

Thank goodness for small favors! jmo

No kidding.
Greta knows there is no reason for her audience to hear the same old song and dance from anita. IMO

[ortiga]

It was misleading, Beth wasn't a suspect, she was nowhere aruba,and has now been without her baby for over 2 years. She has done nothing even remotely suspicious that would lead one to believe she is involved with her own daughters disappearance.
j2k and paulus (V2K2) acted with lies and malice from day one. Many of us thought they should have been picked up questioned and searched the minute we found out the truth about j2k's lies and the finger pointing at the innocent security guards.
The statement was basically a put down saying that some people here just think that if there is a suspect he or she must be guilty. By using my posts to back that theory up was incorrect..

IMO

Can you tell me some of Paulus' lies from day 1, and how you know they are lies? Also, will you give us an example of Paulus' malice?

[ortiga]

No kidding.
Greta knows there is no reason for her audience to hear the same old song and dance from anita. IMO

Where was it stated that Anita wanted to go on Greta's show? What I remember is that Greta got an email that Anita would like to speak to Beth. So where did you read that Anita wanted to go on TV?

[Heyes]

[





I wish you would clarify this statement, or elaborate on it, Heyes. Who is the "us" you keep referring to in your post ??

JMO

It's my opinion.
I'm agreeing with something in the book Beth says. If you want to know what that is you may have to read the book,
The library is free~
On it's own it's a pretty good statement.
imo

[Heyes]

Can you tell me some of Paulus' lies from day 1, and how you know they are lies? Also, will you give us an example of Paulus' malice?

paulus tells Beth and jug and their friends, (fathers of kids that were on aruba with Natalee, among them) that joran was at a casino, windham? playing in a tournament. LIE
When the tapes of the casino were produced. joran was not there.
Lie Number 1
Day 1

[Heyes]

Where was it stated that Anita wanted to go on Greta's show? What I remember is that Greta got an email that Anita would like to speak to Beth. So where did you read that Anita wanted to go on TV?

pfffft anita knows how to get in touch with Beth.
Anita wanted to talk to Greta. only one reason to want to talk to greta, TV
Good try though!
:patriot:
IMO

[ortiga]

paulus tells Beth and jug and their friends, (fathers of kids that were on aruba with Natalee, among them) that joran was at a casino, windham? playing in a tournament. LIE
When the tapes of the casino were produced. joran was not there.
Lie Number 1
Day 1

But that is what BETH said, therefore not necessarily believable.

[ortiga]

pfffft anita knows how to get in touch with Beth.
Anita wanted to talk to Greta. only one reason to want to talk to greta, TV
Good try though!
:patriot:
IMO

Is that just your opinion then?

You don't have anything to back up your statement that Anita wanted to get on TV?

[Luke Davis]

??? Beth wasn't in Aruba when Natalee was transported away from C&C in the vehicle occupied by J2K. What evidence suggests to you that Beth should be a suspect in this case?
I haven't read a post which offers an opinion that persons are guilty just BECAUSE they are suspects. People who believe they are involved cite the known evidence, IMO.
The facts and circumstances indicate the last three known persons seen with a living, Natalee Holloway are still lying, IMO. Their stories don't match up and they have no corroboration for their versions. Dompig said they are guilty of something ( according to RC, he told her they are guilty as hell).
I think Dompig is right. JMO. Thus far, it's clear to me that Paulus used his power and influence, and it appears he has won. No body..no case. He is despicable, IMO.

I know.

None.

Yes.

Dompig said many things. All could be true. Natalee could have had a heart attack brought on by stenuous activities and substances ingested. I believe reportedly the FBI, Dutch investigators, Dompig and others have suggested as much.

No body, no case, still stands.

[Luke Davis]

I don't have to provide "proof" or "confirmation".
This is a message board for opinions and I have the opinion that Beths words are true.
I feel her book answered alot of questions and debunked alot of the disgusting rumors that came out of aruba.
imo
I think most people who trust Beth would agree with you. Beth is preaching to the choir and doing a great job.

[Luke Davis]

It was misleading, Beth wasn't a suspect, she was nowhere aruba,and has now been without her baby for over 2 years. She has done nothing even remotely suspicious that would lead one to believe she is involved with her own daughters disappearance.
j2k and paulus (V2K2) acted with lies and malice from day one. Many of us thought they should have been picked up questioned and searched the minute we found out the truth about j2k's lies and the finger pointing at the innocent security guards.
The statement was basically a put down saying that some people here just think that if there is a suspect he or she must be guilty. By using my posts to back that theory up was incorrect..

IMO

I'm sorry Heyes, just my opinion. I know Beth wasn't in Aruba and isn't a suspect.

[Heyes]

But that is what BETH said, therefore not necessarily believable.
You didn't add IMO!
I think she's very believable certainly more so than anything I've heard coming out of the mouths of the suspects including paulus or the "authorities" on the set of "Gone with the aruban wind" lol
IMO

[Heyes]

Is that just your opinion then?

You don't have anything to back up your statement that Anita wanted to get on TV?

Why did she call Greta of all people then??????? Just to chat? lol

[Heyes]

I'm sorry Heyes, just my opinion. I know Beth wasn't in Aruba and isn't a suspect.

No problem.
I wanted to clarify my posts and make it cystal clear.

[ortiga]

You didn't add IMO!
I think she's very believable certainly more so than anything I've heard coming out of the mouths of the suspects including paulus or the "authorities" on the set of "Gone with the aruban wind" lol
IMO

Paulus isn't a suspect

[Heyes]

Paulus isn't a suspect
I think he should be, that's why he was added to the list!

[ortiga]

Why did she call Greta of all people then??????? Just to chat? lol

I thought she send Greta an email. Was it a call? Greta on the Gretawire said that Anita wanted to speak with Beth, if possible. I don't recall Greta saying that Anita wanted to get on TV.

[HiLife]

<snipped>

I wonder why some think ALE should do that ??

JMO

Who are the "some" and "some of those people" both of you are referring to? TIA.

jmo

[

I wish you would clarify this statement, or elaborate on it, Heyes. Who is the "us" you keep referring to in your post ??

JMO
I think you missed my post the other day, but I was hoping you could clarify who is "some" you refer to in your above post? TIA.

jmo

[Heyes]

I thought she send Greta an email. Was it a call? Greta on the Gretawire said that Anita wanted to speak with Beth, if possible. I don't recall Greta saying that Anita wanted to get on TV.


So to speak with Beth she calls the lady with the TV show? With the microphone and camera's?????? OK
lol lol lol lol
Heck any of us could get in touch with Beth why would she go through greta??????????
Beth has attorney's there and JQK isn't hard to find, I'm positive anita can turn on and use the computer. lol lol


IMO!

[ortiga]

So to speak with Beth she calls the lady with the TV show? With the microphone and camera's?????? OK
lol lol lol lol
Heck any of us could get in touch with Beth why would she go through greta??????????
Beth has attorney's there and JQK isn't hard to find, I'm positive anita can turn on and use the computer. lol lol


IMO!

So, just to clarify, it is just your opinion that Anita wanted to get on TV?

[HiLife]

No kidding.
Greta knows there is no reason for her audience to hear the same old song and dance from anita. IMO
I can't think of any reason good, moral people should hear from a suspected murderers mother telling everybody what a good boy he is! :rolleyes: She doesn't deserve a platform to spew her enabling.

jmo

[Heyes]

So, just to clarify, it is just your opinion that Anita wanted to get on TV?

Is it your opinion Anita has no idea how get ahold of Beth unless it's through the lady with a prime time television show?

[Luke Davis]

Is it your opinion Anita has no idea how get ahold of Beth unless it's through the lady with a prime time television show?That would be my opinion on Aruba.

[ortiga]

I think you missed my post the other day, but I was hoping you could clarify who is "some" you refer to in your above post? TIA.

jmo

I wouldn't bother to answer that if I were FM. "Some" is a general word. "We" and "us" refer to a specific group. Most of us here use the word "we" to refer to what "we" know from the behavior of the principals in the case that we have learned about and discuss on this board.

Some say that Beth is dishonest.
Some say she has a free pass to say what she wants because she is a distraught mother. Some don't like that concept at all. Some would throw the boys in jail and throw away the key.

There is no reason to explain who "some" is, it is a general term.

IMO

[Heyes]

I can't think of any reason good, moral people should hear from a suspected murderers mother telling everybody what a good boy he is! :rolleyes: She doesn't deserve a platform to spew her enabling.

jmo

Exactly!
Beth tolerated a half an hour of hearing the sporter is a good boy garbage until the truth about the sporter came out. his mental care, his lack of respect towards his parents, his becoming out of control. All out of anita's mouth!
Who wants to hear from her? Nobody, Greta knows that she couldn't handle the angry Emails that would come in if she had inserted the suspects mother into that particular show.
IMO

[ortiga]

Is it your opinion Anita has no idea how get ahold of Beth unless it's through the lady with a prime time television show?

Greta didn't say why Anita wanted to talk to Beth, but she did say, IIRC, that Beth was too busy. I guess that going to C&C and the lighthouse was more important. I read on one interview where Beth was characterized as going to Aruba to speak to authorities to encourage them to keep investigating the suspects. I wonder if she told the program to say that.

IMO

[HiLife]

Exactly!
Beth tolerated a half an hour of hearing the sporter is a good boy garbage until the truth about the sporter came out. his mental care, his lack of respect towards his parents, his becoming out of control. All out of anita's mouth!
Who wants to hear from her? Nobody, Greta knows that she couldn't handle the angry Emails that would come in if she had inserted the suspects mother into that particular show.
IMO

LOL - I could just picture the GretaBlog after that! Love/Hate posts. Where have we ever heard a suspect's mother addressing the public about her son? They are brazen, those VDS!

jmo

[ortiga]

Since you are not FM, I'd prefer to hear from her. Your answer is all wrong. jmo.

FM can do anything she feels like doing, and can answer any post she wants to. She can also comment on the Author's note if she wants to.

Some think that Aruba is corrupt. Who is "some"?

No need to explain general collective terms like that.

[Heyes]

Greta didn't say why Anita wanted to talk to Beth, but she did say, IIRC, that Beth was too busy. I guess that going to C&C and the lighthouse was more important. I read on one interview where Beth was characterized as going to Aruba to speak to authorities to encourage them to keep investigating the suspects. I wonder if she told the program to say that.

IMO

If I was Beth I would consider just about anything more important that talking anita.
If anita had anything worthwhile to say she has had over 2 years to say it.
imo

[HiLife]

<snipped>


Ignoring the bait. :seeya:

[ortiga]

If I was Beth I would consider just about anything more important that talking anita.
If anita had anything worthwhile to say she has had over 2 years to say it.
imo

That's OK. Beth refused to speak with Joran too, when he offered publicly to speak to her and Dave.

So she doesn't want to talk to Joran, doesn't want to talk to his Mom, and when his father was kind enough to ask her into the VDS private home, she badmouthed him beyond belief.

I already know what kind of person Beth is, so I am not surprised.

IMO

[No Nic]

Greta didn't say why Anita wanted to talk to Beth, but she did say, IIRC, that Beth was too busy. I guess that going to C&C and the lighthouse was more important. I read on one interview where Beth was characterized as going to Aruba to speak to authorities to encourage them to keep investigating the suspects. I wonder if she told the program to say that.

IMO

Of course she did !! She can make anyone do anything.

Look.....up in the sky

It's a bird......it's a plane

Noooooooooooooo.................IT'S SUPERBETH !!!! http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/images/smilies/supergirl.gif

imo

[Heyes]

Sure, as long as it can be edited by Greta and co. As long as it's not on bht's terms it won't be happening, we've seen that several times before, including her demand for the face to face on-camera meeting with Joran, from which she ran.

links please!

especially the one where you say Beth ran from joran. lol lol

[Heyes]

That's OK. Beth refused to speak with Joran too, when he offered publicly to speak to her and Dave.

So she doesn't want to talk to Joran, doesn't want to talk to his Mom, and when his father was kind enough to ask her into the VDS private home, she badmouthed him beyond belief.

I already know what kind of person Beth is, so I am not surprised.

IMO

I do too, she's the kind of lady who isn't going to waste anymore time listening to lies from the suspect and his family.
imo
don't blame her.

[ortiga]

Of course she did !! She can make anyone do anything.

Look.....up in the sky

It's a bird......it's a plane

Noooooooooooooo.................IT'S SUPERBETH !!!! http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/images/smilies/supergirl.gif

imo


So where do you think the program got that introduction to their interview with Beth. About going to Aruba to encourage the authorities...blah blah blah. Sounds like a bethism to me.

IMO

[Heyes]

Of course she did !! She can make anyone do anything.

Look.....up in the sky

It's a bird......it's a plane

Noooooooooooooo.................IT'S SUPERBETH !!!! http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/images/smilies/supergirl.gif

imo

I've never seen so much worry about one little southern lady, have you? lol lol
Anything to get off the subject of the suspect and his actions.
What a hoot!
Her book sure has rattled some cages.
imo
We have a young woman believed to be kidnapped, raped and murdered in aruba, we even have suspects, but all the joran fans want to do is bash Beth, the poor mother of the beautiful victim. Says alot doesn't it?
I thought this was a CRIME board, is it now a gossip about the victims moms board?
Page after page of nothing but putting down the victims mom. silly really IMO

I have to ask what did anita think that she would say or do to change things, I mean unless paulus or joran told her where Natalee's body is I see no reason for Beth to spend 1 second listening to more lies.
IMO

[HiLife]

I do too, she's the kind of lady who isn't going to waste anymore time listening to lies from the suspect and his family.
imo
don't blame her.

You're right about Beth. When reading the book, you can see that Beth doesn't suffer fools....and Anita is a fool if she thinks anyone is going to believe her "good boy" spew. Beth has good instincts and isn't going to be abused any further by this family.

jmo

[HiLife]

Of course she did !! She can make anyone do anything.

Look.....up in the sky

It's a bird......it's a plane

Noooooooooooooo.................IT'S SUPERBETH !!!! http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/images/smilies/supergirl.gif

imo

LOLOL! This has been so true! TaaaaDaaaa!

I burst out laughing when someone on the McCann thread wrote:

"They should hire Beth. The PJ (Portuguese police) would wish they'd never been born - no offense to Beth."

:biggrin:

[Heyes]

You're right about Beth. When reading the book, you can see that Beth doesn't suffer fools....and Anita is a fool if she thinks anyone is going to believe her "good boy" spew. Beth has good instincts and isn't going to be abused any further by this family.

jmo

She may be little but she's one smart cookie. Like I said the murder suspects mother has had 2 years to "talk" to Beth. Too little too late

imo

[HiLife]

She may be little but she's one smart cookie. Like I said the murder suspects mother has had 2 years to "talk" to Beth. Too little too late

imo

I was going to actually write the same thing you did before - that short of telling Beth what her son did to Natalee, there is no need to hear from this woman. The TRUTH from the Van der Sloots would be refreshing, but I know they have no concept of this. Can't wring water from a stone.

jmo

[No Nic]

So where do you think the program got that introduction to their interview with Beth. About going to Aruba to encourage the authorities...blah blah blah. Sounds like a bethism to me.

IMO

Maybe that was the purpose of her visit to Aruba, do you know different?

However, she didn't get to speak to them because the Keystone Kops ran and hid when big bad Beth and Greta showed up at their door. LOL How funny that must have been......."OMG, Natalee's mom is here, run...run...hide...I'm skeered...OMG, she has Greta with her, hurry....hurry....HIDE !!!" ROTFLMAO

imo

[Heyes]

Maybe that was the purpose of her visit to Aruba, do you know different?

However, she didn't get to speak to them because the Keystone Kops ran and hid when big bad Beth and Greta showed up at their door. LOL How funny that must have been......."OMG, Natalee's mom is here, run...run...hide...I'm skeered...OMG, she has Greta with her, hurry....hurry....HIDE !!!" ROTFLMAO

imo


That was hysterical. Nobody at the police station, when caught,they tried to say that this is just a storage room now, lol lol the camera didn't lie.
So where were they? Did they see Beth and Greta and hide in one of the bathroom stalls or were they all out eating their frosted flakes?
I can't believe that place.
The big bad,so called cops are scared of two little ladies. lol lol lol
imo

[Luke Davis]

LOLOL! This has been so true! TaaaaDaaaa!

I burst out laughing when someone on the McCann thread wrote:

"They should hire Beth. The PJ (Portuguese police) would wish they'd never been born - no offense to Beth."

:biggrin:
Beth could handle the HOT LINE... whacha got?

[HiLife]

Beth could handle the HOT LINE... whacha got?

Direct and to the point. Pithy. No Aruban BS.

jmo

[No Nic]

From what I recall beth moved around rather a lot in the last 2 yrs. Lovebowls to fill, children to brainwash all over the the country. I would think that getting a hold of beth might be difficult at best. It is a whole lot easier to find the Aruban police department.

imo

There goes that *SuperBeth* again.

She "brainwashes children" (and their parents, school officials let her) and she is also somehow able to make people donate to her "lovebowls".....HOW does she do that ?? Does she "brainwash" all those people, too ??

imo

[HiLife]

There goes that *SuperBeth* again.

She "brainwashes children" (and their parents, school officials let her) and she is also somehow able to make people donate to her "lovebowls".....HOW does she do that ?? Does she "brainwash" all those people, too ??

imo

Oh, no! Academia has fallen for Beth's nefarious "brainwashing" superpowers - they're going to create a college course based on her ISTF!

Who will be next? Is there no one immune? :eek:

jmo

[No Nic]

Oh, no! Academia has fallen for Beth's nefarious "brainwashing" superpowers - they're going to create a college course based on her ISTF!

Who will be next? Is there no one immune? :eek:

jmo

Yes, I heard about that.

Who will be next, you ask? Hmmmm......I don't know. There is no limit to her extraordinary powers.

She controlled the media
She controlled the ALE
She controlled US Governors
She made JK2 lie
She makes people donate to her
She brainwashes children
(It is late, I am sure I missed a lot here)

imo

[HiLife]

Yes, I heard about that.

Who will be next, you ask? Hmmmm......I don't know. There is no limit to her extraordinary powers.

She controlled the media
She controlled the ALE
She controlled US Governors
She made JK2 lie
She makes people donate to her
She brainwashes children
(It is late, I am sure I missed a lot here)

imo

Impressive. All this while being a foreigner on Aruba. ALE tried to get away with their shenanigans because Beth was a foreigner and they took full advantage.

jmo

[Luke Davis]

Impressive. All this while being a foreigner on Aruba. ALE tried to get away with their shenanigans because Beth was a foreigner and they took full advantage.

jmoMost impressive were her NASCAR skills. 120 mph across several states while using a cell phone.
:hat:

[JustMyOpinion]

I know.

None.

Yes.

Dompig said many things. All could be true. Natalee could have had a heart attack brought on by stenuous activities and substances ingested. I believe reportedly the FBI, Dutch investigators, Dompig and others have suggested as much.

No body, no case, still stands.

If she had a heart attack, where is her body? Why has it disappeared? Why would those who transported her lie to police and falsely implicate innocent men, allow them to be accused of murder and imprisoned, IYO? Why are they still lying, IYO?

[ArubaSteve]

This idea of not being able to get the police is ridiculous. Just open up the newspaper in Aruba and look for the listing of each area police station. It's more than I get in my hometown paper. They list the police stations in Oranjestad, Noord, Santa Cruz, Saveneta, San Nicolas. If your in a hurry call 911. Difficult?

[ortiga]

They weren't accused of murder. They were held on the grounds of suspicion of an alleged crime, connected to the disappearance of Natalee. The crime was alleged by beth.

Did the boys lie? We know they did. Does that make them criminals? No. If that were the case beth herself would be a criminal.

In the US police must generally file charges after holding a suspect for 48 hrs. Under Aruban and Dutch law there is no such law. A person can be held as a person of interest (there is no such thing as a bond or bail) for up to 2 years before they are charged with a crime. A judge or a panel of judges decide whether or not there is any grounds to hold that person in prison while the investigation is ongoing.

Judges have determined that there are no grounds to hold any persons of interest in custody. Those persons of interest can be re-arrested if new information is presented at any time, in any part of the Dutch Kingdom.

It's a whole lot to do about nothing for a run-away adult who has stated she didn't wish to return to Alabama.

imo

Amazing how, after 2.5 years or more, some like to try to fly that kite that says that the boys were accused of murder. Ho hum. If I weren't busy, I'd go look for that Arlene quote about boys being suspected of suspected crimes that may have been committed....maybe, and if the crimes were maybe committed than these boys MAY have been the perps.

Note that I said perps of the crime, not "Natalee's perpetrators" or "Natalee's original perpetrators" as the mother says. That is grammatically incorrect as you can't perpetrate a person. I guess they don't teach those complicated concepts in grad school in Ark.

IMO

[ortiga]

This idea of not being able to get the police is ridiculous. Just open up the newspaper in Aruba and look for the listing of each area police station. It's more than I get in my hometown paper. They list the police stations in Oranjestad, Noord, Santa Cruz, Saveneta, San Nicolas. If your in a hurry call 911. Difficult?

But Steve, that wouldn't have made a story for Greta. Did you notice that she didn't archive that video of the 2 girls in Aruba? Ie, viewers can't see it unless they go to a blog.

The story was floated for Beth's book promotions that Twitty went to Aruba to encourage the authorities to continue their investigations. Instead, the truth seems to be that it was a cheap photo op for Greta's dismal program, and a failed plug for Beth's book.

I guess we'll never know for sure, but she would have probably sold MORE books if she would have avoided that silly publicity trip.

IMO

[ortiga]

Loving Natalee:

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,956

Books available from $11.12


Funny. Still, $11 is SOMETHING and Natalee is still a moneymaker for the mother.

[ortiga]

Loving Natalee:

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #1,956

Books available from $11.12

http://m1.2mdn.net/viewad/1395988/300x250_flatImg_Endless_Man.jpg

I think they also found Joran's other shoe.


But there is sun on the horizon....now the book is #70 in amazon's in the spirituality category.....Not real sure what these numbers mean, do they mean that only one of 70 people that look for spiritual books would chose hers?

And the 1,956....does that mean that nearly 2000 other titles sell better than hers? That must be some list of a couple of grand books. Probably "How to cook Moose in Minnesota" is more popular. The way I understand it is that the rankings include all books that ever have sold even 1 copy. So, the theorized moose book, which may have been published in 1922 could be ahead of the "truth about the kidnapping in Aruba". At least cookbooks are pretty straight forward, I doubt that someone would "author" a cookbook that didn't have any recipes inside!!

IMO

[HiLife]

This idea of not being able to get the police is ridiculous. Just open up the newspaper in Aruba and look for the listing of each area police station. It's more than I get in my hometown paper. They list the police stations in Oranjestad, Noord, Santa Cruz, Saveneta, San Nicolas. If your in a hurry call 911. Difficult?

Do you know the number to the local doughnut shop?

[ArubaSteve]

The "Visibility Team" ride ATV's along the beach and along the main road. They are very easy to spot, and easy to approach. If you need the police you can contact the police, the visibility team or walk into any hotel or restaurant and have them contact the authorities. An excuse for not being able to find the police is just rediculous. It's stupid and unbelievable.

[HiLife]

<snipped>

It's a whole lot to do about nothing for a run-away adult who has stated she didn't wish to return to Alabama.

imo

Any chance there's a link to this? OTHER than Joran? Thought not. You know we cannot believe what the pathological liar says.

jmo

[HiLife]

The "Visibility Team" ride ATV's along the beach and along the main road. They are very easy to spot, and easy to approach. If you need the police you can contact the police, the visibility team or walk into any hotel or restaurant and have them contact the authorities. An excuse for not being able to find the police is just rediculous. It's stupid and unbelievable.

I don't believe Greta's cameras lie. And as far as now, maybe their "visibility" has improved after 2.5 years of the Natalee Holloway case and they're desperate to fill their empty beaches. But back then? I don't think so.

The frantic chaperone's story refutes your account. Paul Lilly could NOT get the Beach Patrol to cooperate on the morning of Natalee's disappearance. But this is all old re-hash. The Holloway/Twitty's couldn't even get regular ALE to cooperate, so why would some rinky-dink Beach Patrol do anything? :shrug:

jmo

[JustMyOpinion]

They weren't accused of murder. They were held on the grounds of suspicion of an alleged crime, connected to the disappearance of Natalee. The crime was alleged by beth.

imo
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/08/ltm.01.html
PENHAUL (voice-over): In twin raids Sunday, police arrested two hotel security guards, a 28 and a 30-year-old in connection with Natalee's disappearance. Their attorney, Chris Lejuez, says they've been formally accused of multiple crimes.

CHRIS LEJUEZ, ATTORNEY: They are mentioning murder, accomplice to committing murder, homicide, accomplice to committing homicide, and kidnapping with the consequence of death.

PENHAUL: But investigators have not yet offered any conclusive proof whether Natalee is dead or alive. Lejuez says his clients were not at work near the Holiday Inn where Natalee was staying on the night she disappeared. One was out partying with his wife.

Prosecutors have not publicly revealed what evidence led them to arrest these men who are now being held in separate jail cells at opposite ends of Aruba.

LEJUEZ: Both of them are very concerned. They are nervous. They know that they are being suspected of something very -- very heavy, very serious. But they are confident, both of them, and they have shown that confidence to me that they very categorically deny being involved in this case.

[JustMyOpinion]

It's a whole lot to do about nothing for a run-away adult who has stated she didn't wish to return to Alabama.

imo


What evidence can you cite to support your theory that Natalee ran away ?
I don't think an investigation lasting over two years is "about nothing". It seems very clear to me that local & Dutch authorities suspect individuals of committing crimes against Natalee, including murder, and the last three persons known to be with her are still primary suspects, JMO.

[Heyes]

But Steve, that wouldn't have made a story for Greta. Did you notice that she didn't archive that video of the 2 girls in Aruba? Ie, viewers can't see it unless they go to a blog.

The story was floated for Beth's book promotions that Twitty went to Aruba to encourage the authorities to continue their investigations. Instead, the truth seems to be that it was a cheap photo op for Greta's dismal program, and a failed plug for Beth's book.

I guess we'll never know for sure, but she would have probably sold MORE books if she would have avoided that silly publicity trip.

IMO


lol ooops, looks like Greta is back on the list. Funny if she says one positive thing about joran, greta's a good guy. If she supports the victims family she's the bad guy.
This is getting funny.
Failed plug for Beths book?
You really should read it and see who her supporters are.
Very impressive.
Not so for the vandersloots, kalpoes or even aruba.

IMO
Lets get to the truth, break it down. Who are V2k2 and aruba supporters? We know it's not paulus peers. They have made their feelings known, on the record.
Please name the foundations, law enforcement agency's. government officials, actors, etc. that support aruba, or joran and his lies????????
There aren't any!
So far the only defense I've heard is on a message board.
But keep that dream alive. It'll go as far as jorans US education, but if it makes those that hate Beth feel better, go for it! lol
Is it a bird
a plane
noooo it's superbeth lol lol lol
are you kidding me she has the ability to brainwash children? lol lol lol
Don't you think that sounds ridiculous? lol lol lol
Poor anita it must be hard to not be the popular girl. lol lol
Who are jorans supporters again?
hint: his grandma doesn't count.

by the way. what is wrong with saying whatcha got? I don't get why joran supporters think this is a bad thing. It sure is nicer than beating your chest and saying "whaddaya want me to do about it." Such compassion and care. That joran.
We laugh at this point that the only defense is to blame the victim and her mom. I think aruba is about 30 years behind. Many have learned that is a sign of NO defense.
:patriot:
imo

[Heyes]

The "Visibility Team" ride ATV's along the beach and along the main road. They are very easy to spot, and easy to approach. If you need the police you can contact the police, the visibility team or walk into any hotel or restaurant and have them contact the authorities. An excuse for not being able to find the police is just rediculous. It's stupid and unbelievable.


Evidently not!
Even if you do find a cop, they are either too busy eating, shaving, or asking how much money do ya got! They tell you to go to a bar, cover your drink and wait. what an unprofessional bunch of baffoons!. IMO
We've seen the truth about this backwards island. (((((shiver)))) frightening!
Not really a big suprise as we have heard about traveling to small islands like this, in fact the warning has always been, DON'T leave the resort! I can see why!. Maybe aruban resorts should do what jamaica does and put tape up at their property lines and tell the tourists that we won't protect you if you cross this tape! At least it would be a gentle reminder for the innocent tourists.
IMO
IMO

[ortiga]

I don't believe Greta's cameras lie. And as far as now, maybe their "visibility" has improved after 2.5 years of the Natalee Holloway case and they're desperate to fill their empty beaches. But back then? I don't think so.

The frantic chaperone's story refutes your account. Paul Lilly could NOT get the Beach Patrol to cooperate on the morning of Natalee's disappearance. But this is all old re-hash. The Holloway/Twitty's couldn't even get regular ALE to cooperate, so why would some rinky-dink Beach Patrol do anything? :shrug:

jmo

Twitty herself said it took her 36 hours to find the police.

The chaperones story is related by Twitty, meaning there is no credibility in to the story.

I believe she told him not to do anything until she got there. So, she could hide Natalee's presumed condition from the press. Like she explains in the book, she did not want photographers to see her daughter coming out of a crack house. Image more important to Beth than anything else.

IMO

[ortiga]

lol ooops, looks like Greta is back on the list. Funny if she says one positive thing about joran, greta's a good guy. If she supports the victims family she's the bad guy.
This is getting funny.
Failed plug for Beths book?
You really should read it and see who her supporters are.
Very impressive.
Not so for the vandersloots, kalpoes or even aruba.

IMO
Lets get to the truth, break it down. Who are V2k2 and aruba supporters? We know it's not paulus peers. They have made their feelings known, on the record.
Please name the foundations, law enforcement agency's. government officials, actors, etc. that support aruba, or joran and his lies????????
There aren't any!
So far the only defense I've heard is on a message board.
But keep that dream alive. It'll go as far as jorans US education, but if it makes those that hate Beth feel better, go for it! lol
Is it a bird
a plane
noooo it's superbeth lol lol lol
are you kidding me she has the ability to brainwash children? lol lol lol
Don't you think that sounds ridiculous? lol lol lol
Poor anita it must be hard to not be the popular girl. lol lol
Who are jorans supporters again?
hint: his grandma doesn't count.

by the way. what is wrong with saying whatcha got? I don't get why joran supporters think this is a bad thing. It sure is nicer than beating your chest and saying "whaddaya want me to do about it." Such compassion and care. That joran.
We laugh at this point that the only defense is to blame the victim and her mom. I think aruba is about 30 years behind. Many have learned that is a sign of NO defense.
:patriot:
imo

That was kind of hard to follow, but I'll just point out that there is no confirmed victim in this case, no proof of anything but consensual petting, and no proof of any crime. That's just the way it is.

IMO

[Heyes]

Twitty herself said it took her 36 hours to find the police.

The chaperones story is related by Twitty, meaning there is no credibility in to the story.

I believe she told him not to do anything until she got there. So, she could hide Natalee's presumed condition from the press. Like she explains in the book, she did not want photographers to see her daughter coming out of a crack house. Image more important to Beth than anything else.

IMO

aww the notorious julia renfro set up. lol lol

Would you want your daughter photographed after being kidnapped and drugged and held in a crack house????
Maybe you wouldn't mind....:shrug:
Beth did right by her daughter.
julia used that poor distraught woman to further her career. Or so she hoped.
Had Natalee been my kid, julia would have had to run, very fast.:chicken:
I just don't have the tolerance for evil doers that Beth has.
IMO

[ortiga]

Evidently not!
Even if you do find a cop, they are either too busy eating, shaving, or asking how much money do ya got! They tell you to go to a bar, cover your drink and wait. what an unprofessional bunch of baffoons!. IMO
We've seen the truth about this backwards island. (((((shiver)))) frightening!
Not really a big suprise as we have heard about traveling to small islands like this, in fact the warning has always been, DON'T leave the resort! I can see why!. Maybe aruban resorts should do what jamaica does and put tape up at their property lines and tell the tourists that we won't protect you if you cross this tape! At least it would be a gentle reminder for the innocent tourists.
IMO
IMO

The best reminder possible would be to ask parents not to send their sheltered teens on vacations where unlimited alcohol is paid for ahead of time. Doesn't matter what the destination is.....just logical and better not to do it, from the child's point of view and from the parents'. Even in the US it is a very bad idea to send a sheltered teen off with 140 peers with no chaperones, only a few adults (chosen by the children) to hold passports. Oh, in the US they don't need passports do they. So I guess the "chaperones" wouldn't be needed at all. :rolleyes:

Really, the issue does boil down to this...use your head in choosing vacations for your children.

IMO

[fairmaiden]

I've never seen so much worry about one little southern lady, have you? lol lol
Anything to get off the subject of the suspect and his actions.
What a hoot!
Her book sure has rattled some cages.
imo
We have a young woman believed to be kidnapped, raped and murdered in aruba, we even have suspects, but all the joran fans want to do is bash Beth, the poor mother of the beautiful victim. Says alot doesn't it?
I thought this was a CRIME board, is it now a gossip about the victims moms board?
Page after page of nothing but putting down the victims mom. silly really IMO

I have to ask what did anita think that she would say or do to change things, I mean unless paulus or joran told her where Natalee's body is I see no reason for Beth to spend 1 second listening to more lies.
IMO

I believe you're one of the posters who complains about discussion centering around Beth, yet YOU never seem to fail to mention her.

As I said in a recent post, Heyes .... If you don't want discussion where Beth is mentioned, then perhaps you need to curb your mention of her on a constant basis ....

"Beth, the poor mother of the beautiful victim" ????

JMO

[Heyes]

That was kind of hard to follow, but I'll just point out that there is no confirmed victim in this case, no proof of anything but consensual petting, and no proof of any crime. That's just the way it is.

IMO
That's only if you believe corrupt aruban officials. Oh yeah and the primary suspect.
At the very least there is proof of obstruction of justice. Can't even get these fools to charge them with that.
They do seem to value their crackhouses and drug dealers though. just look for the flags on their little goverment sponsored huts. :rolleyes:
That's just the way it is there.
IMO

[ortiga]

aww the notorious julia renfro set up. lol lol

Would you want your daughter photographed after being kidnapped and drugged and held in a crack house????
Maybe you wouldn't mind....:shrug:
Beth did right by her daughter.
julia used that poor distraught woman to further her career. Or so she hoped.
Had Natalee been my kid, julia would have had to run, very fast.:chicken:
I just don't have the tolerance for evil doers that Beth has.
IMO


Like I said in my post, I do believe that Twitty told the "coach" (of course he was not a chaperone) to sit tight until she got there. She didn't even have Matt tell Natalee's dad that she was missing until many hours later, when she was safely in the air, no way for Dave to catch up and possibly interfere with her plan to get Natalee away from the Dutch boy, while keeping it all secret. And I do believe that she told Matt specifically NOT to call the Dad, even though she says Matt was the one that said "this is serious, we've got to notify the FBI" (quotes used for readability). She must have been very "distraught" to have forgotten or overlooked telling Natalee's own father.

IMO

[Heyes]

The best reminder possible would be to ask parents not to send their sheltered teens on vacations where unlimited alcohol is paid for ahead of time. Doesn't matter what the destination is.....just logical and better not to do it, from the child's point of view and from the parents'. Even in the US it is a very bad idea to send a sheltered teen off with 140 peers with no chaperones, only a few adults (chosen by the children) to hold passports. Oh, in the US they don't need passports do they. So I guess the "chaperones" wouldn't be needed at all. :rolleyes:

Really, the issue does boil down to this...use your head in choosing vacations for your children.

IMO

Uh huh and if certain other parents had gotten their out of control teen some help before he ended up really hurting someone we wouldn't be discussing this at all.
IMO

[ArubaSteve]

Heyes....... I know you will never go to Aruba, but have you ever been there? Have you ever vacationed on any Caribbean Island? Thanks

[ortiga]

aww the notorious julia renfro set up. lol lol

Would you want your daughter photographed after being kidnapped and drugged and held in a crack house????
Maybe you wouldn't mind....:shrug:
Beth did right by her daughter.
julia used that poor distraught woman to further her career. Or so she hoped.
Had Natalee been my kid, julia would have had to run, very fast.:chicken:
I just don't have the tolerance for evil doers that Beth has.
IMO


I think Beth is the only one that claimed Natalee would have been held "against her will" in a crack house.

[Heyes]

I believe you're one of the posters who complains about discussion centering around Beth, yet YOU never seem to fail to mention her.

As I said in a recent post, Heyes .... If you don't want discussion where Beth is mentioned, then perhaps you need to curb your mention of her on a constant basis ....

"Beth, the poor mother of the beautiful victim" ????

JMO



LMAO! perhaps this is lecture is more appropriate for a pm????

[ortiga]

Uh huh and if certain other parents had gotten their out of control teen some help before he ended up really hurting someone we wouldn't be discussing this at all.
IMO

There is no proof he was out of control or described that way. That was Beth's story, and she is not credible, she can't even decide to say if she crawled to the crosses or walked, she can't decide to say where she saw her own daughter last, when she hugged Natalee good bye at the the airport or took her to a friend's house.

There is no proof Joran hurt Natalee in any way whatsoever. He said he wasn't even interested in her until she offered the jello shot from her belly button.

What heterosexual 17 year old guy wouldn't be interested then?

IMO

[No Nic]

There is no proof he was out of control or described that way. That was Beth's story, and she is not credible, she can't even decide to say if she crawled to the crosses or walked, she can't decide to say where she saw her own daughter last, when she hugged Natalee good bye at the the airport or took her to a friend's house.

There is no proof Joran hurt Natalee in any way whatsoever. He said he wasn't even interested in her until she offered the jello shot from her belly button.

What heterosexual 17 year old guy wouldn't be interested then?

IMO

There is no proof of that, that was Joran's story. He is not credible, he can't even decide if he went to the lighthouse or his house that night, he can't decide if he walked home, if Deepak or Satish gave him a ride, he can't decide if Natalee was gazing at the stars or asleep when he "left" her on the beach.

What's up with that ??

imo

[Grandad]

<snip>
At the very least there is proof of obstruction of justice.

<snip>IMO

I guess that would be Beth offering Deepak a bribe for false testimony against Joran.

[ortiga]

There is no proof of that, that was Joran's story. He is not credible, he can't even decide if he went to the lighthouse or his house that night, he can't decide if he walked home, if Deepak or Satish gave him a ride, he can't decide if Natalee was gazing at the stars or asleep when he "left" her on the beach.

What's up with that ??

imo

Beth is a liar, Joran is a liar, the MB students were caught in lies and contradictions. So were many other people in this case. Some have acknowledged their lies and apologized publicly for them, and some continue to lie.

I could have sworn that Jug said that he and Beth dated for 7 years before marrying, yet Beth said it was 3. :shrug:

[Grandad]

Beth is a liar, Joran is a liar, the MB students were caught in lies and contradictions. So were many other people in this case. Some have acknowledged their lies and apologized publicly for them, and some continue to lie.

I could have sworn that Jug said that he and Beth dated for 7 years before marrying, yet Beth said it was 3. :shrug:

Didn't the seven years mean they were dating while one, or possibly both, were still married?

[No Nic]

Beth is a liar, Joran is a liar, the MB students were caught in lies and contradictions. So were many other people in this case. Some have acknowledged their lies and apologized publicly for them, and some continue to lie.

I could have sworn that Jug said that he and Beth dated for 7 years before marrying, yet Beth said it was 3. :shrug:

And Joran said that his parent got married when he was about 2 yrs old because it was easier to get their visas if they were married.

What difference does any of this make in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway :shrug:

[ArubaSteve]

Some look for facts, some look for evidence, some bash.

[SukiJane]

There is no proof of that, that was Joran's story. He is not credible, he can't even decide if he went to the lighthouse or his house that night, he can't decide if he walked home, if Deepak or Satish gave him a ride, he can't decide if Natalee was gazing at the stars or asleep when he "left" her on the beach.

What's up with that ??

imo

Ya gotta love the Joran pep squad, No Nic...LOL

I personally think that a statue of Joran should be erected there in Aruba, so that all the locals can pay their respects and thank him for all he's done for their country. Maybe they could make it out of 151 rum bottles, and condoms. I think it would look nice!

jmo

[Luke Davis]

lol ooops, looks like Greta is back on the list. Funny if she says one positive thing about joran, greta's a good guy. If she supports the victims family she's the bad guy.
This is getting funny.
Failed plug for Beths book?
You really should read it and see who her supporters are.
Very impressive.
Not so for the vandersloots, kalpoes or even aruba.

IMO
Lets get to the truth, break it down. Who are V2k2 and aruba supporters? We know it's not paulus peers. They have made their feelings known, on the record.
Please name the foundations, law enforcement agency's. government officials, actors, etc. that support aruba, or joran and his lies????????
There aren't any!
So far the only defense I've heard is on a message board.
But keep that dream alive. It'll go as far as jorans US education, but if it makes those that hate Beth feel better, go for it! lol
Is it a bird
a plane
noooo it's superbeth lol lol lol
are you kidding me she has the ability to brainwash children? lol lol lol
Don't you think that sounds ridiculous? lol lol lol
Poor anita it must be hard to not be the popular girl. lol lol
Who are jorans supporters again?
hint: his grandma doesn't count.

by the way. what is wrong with saying whatcha got? I don't get why joran supporters think this is a bad thing. It sure is nicer than beating your chest and saying "whaddaya want me to do about it." Such compassion and care. That joran.
We laugh at this point that the only defense is to blame the victim and her mom. I think aruba is about 30 years behind. Many have learned that is a sign of NO defense.
:patriot:
imo

I don't understand why you feel the need to compare the speech of a Dutch boy living in Aruba speaking a second language to an American teacher/speech therapist answering a telephone. But it does make me grin.:hat:

[fairmaiden]

<<snip>>
Poor anita it must be hard to not be the popular girl. lol lol
:patriot:
imo

Huh ?? Since it's that time of year .... are you talking about the Homecoming Queen ?????? "Popular girl" ??????

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Evidently not!
Even if you do find a cop, they are either too busy eating, shaving, or asking how much money do ya got! They tell you to go to a bar, cover your drink and wait. what an unprofessional bunch of baffoons!. IMO
We've seen the truth about this backwards island. (((((shiver)))) frightening!
Not really a big suprise as we have heard about traveling to small islands like this, in fact the warning has always been, DON'T leave the resort! I can see why!. Maybe aruban resorts should do what jamaica does and put tape up at their property lines and tell the tourists that we won't protect you if you cross this tape! At least it would be a gentle reminder for the innocent tourists.
IMO
IMO

It's amazing that all Natalee's family, friends, investigators, news people, search people made it back alive! :chicken:

[ortiga]

Didn't the seven years mean they were dating while one, or possibly both, were still married?

That could be. IIRC on NG he said they dated 7 years. Then, in the book Beth tells some silly story about her kids misbehaving and pounding on her "escort's" car with cleats, and the guy sitting on the step with his head in his hands. Then, IIRC she says she didn't have many escorts or dates for years afterwards. Then she says Jug and her dated for 3 years, were married for 6 years, and some years before she met Jug.

Sounds like a purposely designed maze to me.

IMO

[SukiJane]

Some look for facts, some look for evidence, some bash.

I think you've mentioned that you participated in some of the searches there in Aruba. I think it's wonderful that you donated your time and energy to do that, but I'm curious, because it is my understanding buses were loaded with people to search. What kind of information was coming in on the specific areas the people were taken to search, especially with no evidence of a crime. Do you know?

[Luke Davis]

That was hysterical. Nobody at the police station, when caught,they tried to say that this is just a storage room now, lol lol the camera didn't lie.
So where were they? Did they see Beth and Greta and hide in one of the bathroom stalls or were they all out eating their frosted flakes?
I can't believe that place.
The big bad,so called cops are scared of two little ladies. lol lol lol
imo

Someone said, don't start an arguement with someone who buys ink by the barrel. In today's world it would be cameras. I would certainly be wary of two little ladies handing out prayer cards documented by a camera crew.

[ortiga]

And Joran said that his parent got married when he was about 2 yrs old because it was easier to get their visas if they were married.

What difference does any of this make in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway :shrug:


Why lie or obfuscate about the number of years you were single or dating? Why do the stories not match up?

I haven't seen anyone challenge the veracity of Joran's parents getting married when he was 2. So far I don't see it as a lie.

Big problem is we don't know exactly what Beth's continual lies DO have with the disappearance, or maybe covering up MB involvement. Some of those MB students were sure adament that they recognized Joran in an altercation with Natalee, that he had hung around the children for days, etc. I wonder how they could have been so sure of these things. Maybe it was just alcoholic fog.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Oh come now, as intelligent as beth is supposed to be and the ex-wife of an insurance agent, surely she wouldn't be stupid enough to engage in such outrageously dangerous behavior? As if kidnapping isn't bad enough, she could have killed numerous people on the road, including the illusive trooper that supposedly stopped ms. beth, who then proceeded to then escort ms. beth to the next state line. No doubt approved by the governor. Thilly Luke.

imo

Maybe Beth needed an alibi? What better way to make people believe you are not in Aruba then to have a trooper pull you over?

[ortiga]

It's amazing that all Natalee's family, friends, investigators, news people, search people made it back alive! :chicken:


And that Beth had the uh, courage, to go back AGAIN!! Especially to talk to the authorities to urge them to continue the investigation!!

Putting her life in danger once more in the quest to find her daughter!

[Luke Davis]

911 is difficult to remember, especially because it's so very different from the emergency number in the US. Besides, it's not as though it wouldn't also be listed on all public telephones. Not a person on Aruba who could tell a couple of lost souls where to find the police station. Must be tough when you don't speak Arubian ;)

imo

I wonder if the chaperones who were along for emergencies knew about this number?

[fairmaiden]

The best reminder possible would be to ask parents not to send their sheltered teens on vacations where unlimited alcohol is paid for ahead of time. Doesn't matter what the destination is.....just logical and better not to do it, from the child's point of view and from the parents'. Even in the US it is a very bad idea to send a sheltered teen off with 140 peers with no chaperones, only a few adults (chosen by the children) to hold passports. Oh, in the US they don't need passports do they. So I guess the "chaperones" wouldn't be needed at all. :rolleyes:

Really, the issue does boil down to this...use your head in choosing vacations for your children.

IMO

Well, you're right, ortiga . After reading several excerpts from Beth's book, I wonder what possessed those adults to send their "children" to Aruba, if it truly is as bad as Beth is portraying it. Surely all this "badness" didn't wait to manifest itself until AFTER Natalee Holloway disappeared. It makes me wonder if there might be slight exaggeration to Beth's criticism of this Island.

The question remains .... WHY did she send her daughter there in the first place?? IIRC .... she called the Island "hellish", because it was HOT . She called it "dirty". She called it "windy" .... all, of course, in a derogatory sense. Did she think she was sending her daughter to a COOL, pristine place, with no WIND ??

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Do you know the number to the local doughnut shop?911:hat:

[ortiga]

I wonder if the chaperones who were along for emergencies knew about this number?


Even if they didn't, generations of students, "coaches", and chaperones will be able to log onto ISTF to learn about the buddy system and 911 emergency numbers. Thank goodness we have a non-profit to teach that, and a knowledgeable, reliable person as dual CEO and president.

But, the book itself is not supposed to be for kids under 18 years of age, according to Harperone, the publisher. So maybe that will be the SECOND book, ie to target teens under 18 with the safety messages they didn't get in kindergarten.

IMO

Stranger danger!

[fairmaiden]

LMAO! perhaps this is lecture is more appropriate for a pm????

Heyes .... It wasn't meant as a "lecture", and I apologize you took it that way. You haven't seen me "lecture" .... my kids could fill you in on that.

My point was .... I have seen you complain because Beth is discussed on the board so much .... ((personally, I don't see how that can be avoided)) .... but, in the remote possibility messageposters CAN have a discussion without the mention of Beth .... then perhaps the responsibility lies partially with you, who never FAILS to mention Beth.

JMO

[ortiga]

Well, you're right, ortiga . After reading several excerpts from Beth's book, I wonder what possessed those adults to send their "children" to Aruba, if it truly is as bad as Beth is portraying it. Surely all this "badness" didn't wait to manifest itself until AFTER Natalee Holloway disappeared. It makes me wonder if there might be slight exaggeration to Beth's criticism of this Island.

The question remains .... WHY did she send her daughter there in the first place?? IIRC .... she called the Island "hellish", because it was HOT . She called it "dirty". She called it "windy" .... all, of course, in a derogatory sense. Did she think she was sending her daughter to a COOL, pristine place, with no WIND ??

JMO

some of her extended ex step family had talked to her about C&C, wasn't the word "warned" used? there was a drink huggie from C&C in her own family cabin. (Got there by mysterious means of course, there were SO many visitors up there).

The book is an Aruba bash, and not even subtly done. That's probably why it's bombing in the "spiritual" category with Amazon. Spiritually oriented people can recognize a spirtually oriented book when they encounter one.

IMO

[No Nic]

Why lie or obfuscate about the number of years you were single or dating? Why do the stories not match up?

I haven't seen anyone challenge the veracity of Joran's parents getting married when he was 2. So far I don't see it as a lie.

Big problem is we don't know exactly what Beth's continual lies DO have with the disappearance, or maybe covering up MB involvement. Some of those MB students were sure adament that they recognized Joran in an altercation with Natalee, that he had hung around the children for days, etc. I wonder how they could have been so sure of these things. Maybe it was just alcoholic fog.

IMO

Just maybe you should know what was said before you call someone a liar. Do you have a link to Jug said 7 and Beth said 3? (I won't hold my breath waiting).

imo

[Luke Davis]

That could be. IIRC on NG he said they dated 7 years. Then, in the book Beth tells some silly story about her kids misbehaving and pounding on her "escort's" car with cleats, and the guy sitting on the step with his head in his hands. Then, IIRC she says she didn't have many escorts or dates for years afterwards. Then she says Jug and her dated for 3 years, were married for 6 years, and some years before she met Jug.

Sounds like a purposely designed maze to me.

IMO

IIRC they waited for Jug's daughter to graduate from UA.

[fairmaiden]

It's amazing that all Natalee's family, friends, investigators, news people, search people made it back alive! :chicken:

It does, doesn't it Luke ?? Like I said .... I can't imagine why this Island was chosen as a vacation spot for 140 kids with NO chaperones ....

JMO

[Luke Davis]

It does, doesn't it Luke ?? Like I said .... I can't imagine why this Island was chosen as a vacation spot for 140 kids with NO chaperones ....

JMODrinking.

No driving.

All inclusive.

[ortiga]

Just maybe you should know what was said before you call someone a liar. Do you have a link to Jug said 7 and Beth said 3? (I won't hold my breath waiting).

imo

Check Nancy Grace, Oct 2 or 3rd, 2005. Like I said, I coulda sworn he said he and she dated 7 years. In the book she says 3, IIRC.

[ortiga]

IIRC they waited for Jug's daughter to graduate from UA.


Thanks, I hadn't heard that. But why would that be important? Was the daughter living at home? I can see that would be a factor, if she was.

I gotta go for the rest of the day, if I have time tomorrow I'll look up what Jug had said about the number of years dating. I'm pretty sure she says 3 in the book. IIRC.