Discussion Thread 2007 (Part 3)

[Luke Davis]

I just heard something on the radio about the Dr. Phil lawsuit! But I have company and am not sure what I heard.

[Luke Davis]

http://cbs2.com/local/local_story_255140039.html

Dr. Phil

Judge Gives Dr. Phil, CBS Access To Holloway Files

[Luke Davis]

In another ruling today Ferns has now made final, the judge denied a motion by the CBS/McGraw attorneys to dismiss the estate of private investigator Jamie Skeeters as a defendant in the lawsuit.

The Kalpoes allege that associates of McGraw sent Skeeters to Aruba to develop material for a segment of the show dealing with the Holloway case.

Skeeters, using a family friend and co-worker of Deepak Kalpoe, gained his confidence by saying he could help exonerate both Kalpoes of any wrongdoing in the Holloway case, the suit states.

[Luke Davis]

A case management conference is set for Nov. 7.

[Luke Davis]

Badin video (http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player06.html?091007/091007_greta_baden&On_the_Record&Dr.%20Baden%27s%20Take&acc&On%20the%20Record&-1&Shows&205&&&exp)

And many people in Aruba still think that Natalie Holloway ran away and is alive or that the family had something to do.

[Luke Davis]

The Sept. 15, 2005, episode of the "Dr. Phil" show alleged the brothers gave Holloway a date-rape drug and had group sex with her, the suit contended.

CBS and "Dr. Phil" McGraw claimed that documents existed in which the Kalpoes acknowledged having sex with the
Advertisement
girl—which they have denied. Attorneys for the defendants sought the documents and also e-mails between the brothers and others regarding the case.

The brothers' attorneys said Aruban authorities had much of the information being sought and that the authorities had refused to release it.

In granting access, the judge said the documents "are relevant to the most fundamental issues in this case."

Dr. Phil (http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6874113)

[No Nic]

http://cbs2.com/local/local_story_255140039.html

Dr. Phil

Judge Gives Dr. Phil, CBS Access To Holloway Files

WhooHoo!!!!

Hopefully, the Holloway's will get some answers if these files are presented OR JK2 will have to go away the same as always.......BROKE !!!

I see no sign of this case being settled out of court.

WhooHoo !!!!

imo

[No Nic]

Badin video (http://www.foxnews.com/video2/player06.html?091007/091007_greta_baden&On_the_Record&Dr.%20Baden%27s%20Take&acc&On%20the%20Record&-1&Shows&205&&&exp)

And many people in Aruba still think that Natalie Holloway ran away and is alive or that the family had something to do.

Of course "many people in Aruba" think that (or at least say that), it is the *party line* there, in an attempt to save themselves and their tourism in any way possible.

Many other people (some of them also in Aruba) believe that PJK2 kidnapped, raped and murdered her.

imo

[Luke Davis]

Of course "many people in Aruba" think that (or at least say that), it is the *party line* there, in an attempt to save themselves and their tourism in any way possible.

Many other people (some of them also in Aruba) believe that PJK2 kidnapped, raped and murdered her.

imo

It is interesting that people in Aruba were all for Natalee's family then things changed. And in the Duke case, people were sure the woman was raped. In Portugal, people poured their hearts out for her parents, then began to wonder. Part of it is certainly LE but some is the press. And everything we know is filtered by the press, with their spin.

[Heyes]

I'm pretty sure that Joran did not have a love bowel going. His physician might know though.

I know, Anita looks like a mom, not like a pal to her sons. I admire that and, personally find that all that plastic surgery just makes for a lot of plastic people.

jmo.

love bowel lol lol lol that darn finger. lol
.
I think Beth looks great. But Beth has always been a looker.
Maybe in anita's younger days she was attractive. :shrug:

[Heyes]

A case management conference is set for Nov. 7.



What exactly is a case management conference? Do both sides attend? haven't heard that one before.

[Luke Davis]

What exactly is a case management conference? Do both sides attend? haven't heard that one before.

I never heard the term either (http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/case-management-conference/)

Case management in legal terms refers to the schedule of proceedings involved in a matter. There are various stages in litigation, such as the filing of a complaint, answers, the discovery process (interrogatories, subpoenae, depostions, etc.), and motions that occur before a trial is held or a decision is rendered. Each stage of the process has a scheduled timeframe in which it must be filed with the court or completed. When a complaint is filed and a case is assigned to a judge, the judge will often set forth a schedule for the submission or completion of the relevant pleadings, court appearances, and other matters.

Click link for more.

[Chocoholic]

love bowel lol lol lol that darn finger. lol
.
I think Beth looks great. But Beth has always been a looker.
Maybe in anita's younger days she was attractive. :shrug:

Uh huh, where I come from beauty on the inside is a great deal more important than plastic on the outside. Cultural differences I guess. :shrug:

Either way, bht ain't winning by a long shot in my books.

imo

[Luke Davis]

Greta (http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2007/09/12/natalee-holloway-news/)

Dr. Phil is being sued by Deepak and Satish Kalpoe…..but Dr. Phil has just won a round ….check out this link.

[Chocoholic]

Greta (http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2007/09/12/natalee-holloway-news/)

Dr. Phil is being sued by Deepak and Satish Kalpoe…..but Dr. Phil has just won a round ….check out this link.

LOL @ Greta

[HiLife]

The Sept. 15, 2005, episode of the "Dr. Phil" show alleged the brothers gave Holloway a date-rape drug and had group sex with her, the suit contended.

CBS and "Dr. Phil" McGraw claimed that documents existed in which the Kalpoes acknowledged having sex with the
Advertisement
girl—which they have denied. Attorneys for the defendants sought the documents and also e-mails between the brothers and others regarding the case.

The brothers' attorneys said Aruban authorities had much of the information being sought and that the authorities had refused to release it.

In granting access, the judge said the documents "are relevant to the most fundamental issues in this case."

Dr. Phil (http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_6874113)

:beer: Let's go to court!

FINALLY, will everyone be able to see what is officially on file! :read:

Will ALE fully, truthfully, comply? :shrug:

Will 2K go home with their p**p hats in their hands? EMPTY. :hat:

Or will Dr. Phil take a trip to the cleaners? :eek:

Stay Tuned........ For "As the Lawsuit Turns"

:patriot:

jmo

[ortiga]

Greta (http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2007/09/12/natalee-holloway-news/)

Dr. Phil is being sued by Deepak and Satish Kalpoe…..but Dr. Phil has just won a round ….check out this link.

Thanks for the updates Luke. Maybe FM can come on briefly and yodel up Unperson to give us some insight.

[Mishell1383]

What the heck is a love bowel?
I thought I was reading love bowl, but I realized i was reading bowel?

[Chocoholic]

What the heck is a love bowel?
I thought I was reading love bowl, but I realized i was reading bowel?

I'm not qualified to answer that LOL.

[Chocoholic]

:beer: Let's go to court!

FINALLY, will everyone be able to see what is officially on file! :read:

Will ALE fully, truthfully, comply? :shrug:

Will 2K go home with their p**p hats in their hands? EMPTY. :hat:

Or will Dr. Phil take a trip to the cleaners? :eek:

Stay Tuned........ For "As the Lawsuit Turns"

:patriot:

jmo

The US cannot do anything to compel ALE to hand over documents, it can only order the Kalpoe's lawyers to hand over whatever documents they may have. Contrary to apparently popular belief US law does not reach beyond it's own borders, just ask bht. :D

[No Nic]

:beer: Let's go to court!

FINALLY, will everyone be able to see what is officially on file! :read:
Nope, ALE has no desire to prove themselves incompetent and/or corrupt by releasing a single page.

Will ALE fully, truthfully, comply? :shrug:
Using ALE and "truth" in the same sentence does not compute.

Will 2K go home with their p**p hats in their hands? EMPTY. :hat:
Yep. WhooHoo California!!

Or will Dr. Phil take a trip to the cleaners? :eek:
Nope

Stay Tuned........ For "As the Lawsuit Turns"
:patriot:
Series soon to be canceled (dismissed).

jmo

:seeya: HiLife

imo

[Luke Davis]

:beer: Let's go to court!

FINALLY, will everyone be able to see what is officially on file! :read:

Will ALE fully, truthfully, comply? :shrug:

Will 2K go home with their p**p hats in their hands? EMPTY. :hat:

Or will Dr. Phil take a trip to the cleaners? :eek:

Stay Tuned........ For "As the Lawsuit Turns"

:patriot:

jmo

Will the FBI comply?

Will anything match Beth's signed documents?

[HiLife]

:seeya: HiLife

imo

LOL, No Nic! :seeya:

[Luke Davis]

English Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb4XwnKV1q4)

A different story.

[No Nic]

English Version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb4XwnKV1q4)

A different story.

Pffffffffttttttttttttt !!!

Not different, nothing new. In English but it is definately the same ol' same ol' Aruban/Renfro BS. Meaningless lies, imo

[Luke Davis]

the rest of the story (http://www.youtube.com/user/visear)

English version

[Luke Davis]

Pffffffffttttttttttttt !!!

Not different, nothing new. In English but it is definately the same ol' same ol' Aruban/Renfro BS. Meaningless lies, imoViewing what the average person in Aruba or the Netherlands might see, helps me to understand what they might think.

Something most people in the USA will never know about or if they did, would just dismiss as nothing new.

[Luke Davis]

I think it is good to view the Aruban/Dutch perspective on the case. Likely, they watch more American television than I watch Dutch. As Dr. Badin said - many Arubans think Natlee is still alive and her family may be hiding something.(para see above)

Most of what I know about the case, comes from Natalee's family or USA television. I wonder if I was Aruban and was hearing both sides, what my view would be? I don't think I would take kindly to insults but maybe I would.

I have a low opinion of many of my representatives and public institutions but I don't appreciate people from other countries telling me what I already know. I think it likely I would feel the same if I was Aruban. :shrug:

[Chocoholic]

I think it is good to view the Aruban/Dutch perspective on the case. Likely, they watch more American television than I watch Dutch. As Dr. Badin said - many Arubans think Natlee is still alive and her family may be hiding something.(para see above)

Most of what I know about the case, comes from Natalee's family or USA television. I wonder if I was Aruban and was hearing both sides, what my view would be? I don't think I would take kindly to insults but maybe I would.

I have a low opinion of many of my representatives and public institutions but I don't appreciate people from other countries telling me what I already know. I think it likely I would feel the same if I was Aruban. :shrug:

Generally immigrants/citizens of countries are it's own best critics and don't mind when the person is at least semi-informed.

I have lived (not visiting for a few months) for extended periods of time in several countries (including the US) and just because the legal systems are different, doesn't mean that another is inferior. On the contrary.

<*R>

imo

[Heyes]

I never heard the term either (http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/case-management-conference/)

Case management in legal terms refers to the schedule of proceedings involved in a matter. There are various stages in litigation, such as the filing of a complaint, answers, the discovery process (interrogatories, subpoenae, depostions, etc.), and motions that occur before a trial is held or a decision is rendered. Each stage of the process has a scheduled timeframe in which it must be filed with the court or completed. When a complaint is filed and a case is assigned to a judge, the judge will often set forth a schedule for the submission or completion of the relevant pleadings, court appearances, and other matters.

Click link for more.

Thanks for taking the time to look that up! I do appreciate the little things you do for us ;)

[Heyes]

What the heck is a love bowel?
I thought I was reading love bowl, but I realized i was reading bowel?
:seeya: oooopies! :D

[Mishell1383]

:seeya: oooopies! :D
I swear I had a dream about this last night! That it was an actual quote from a transcript. Oh boy thats how I know I need a break . *sigh* :chicken:

[Heyes]

I swear I had a dream about this last night! That it was an actual quote from a transcript. Oh boy thats how I know I need a break . *sigh* :chicken:

LOL, step away from the crime boards. lol I would love to know what transcript you dreamed about that would have had the
"bowel" word involved. Wait! never mind.
ewwwwww.

[Luke Davis]

LOL, step away from the crime boards. lol I would love to know what transcript you dreamed about that would have had the
"bowel" word involved. Wait! never mind.
ewwwwww.My first thought was Mary Winkler.:shrug:

[Luke Davis]

Caught Greta last night. What a hysterical show. Love the comment "Stupid is as stupid does". Sums up aruba and the kalpoes in one little sentence perfect!
I agree with all of the panelists and greta, the kalpoes will back out of this. I can't imagine anyone in aruba releasing anything regarding Natalee's disappearance. Dr. Phil isn't settling so there goes that silly dream of some that the kalpoes will walk away with millions. lol ain't gonna happen. The greedy kalpoes thought they could just threaten Dr. Phill with a lawsuit and he would settle out of court. lmao. All they did was look stupid, Their lawyers look stupid and aruba looks stupid once again. IMO
Follow the money, where did the kalpoes get the money to hire these lawyers? I would bet the same people funding the kalpoe lawsuit are behind that ridiculous renfro video that was linked here earlier. joran is overdue for another attention seeking publicity stunt. Wonder what it will be? lol lol lol

aruba - "stupid is as stupid does" lol love it
IMO

I think we all hope it goes to court. The Kalpoe lawyers don't seem to be in this for show, they mean business.

[Luke Davis]

Caught Greta last night. What a hysterical show. Love the comment "Stupid is as stupid does". Sums up aruba and the kalpoes in one little sentence perfect!
I agree with all of the panelists and greta, the kalpoes will back out of this. I can't imagine anyone in aruba releasing anything regarding Natalee's disappearance. Dr. Phil isn't settling so there goes that silly dream of some that the kalpoes will walk away with millions. lol ain't gonna happen. The greedy kalpoes thought they could just threaten Dr. Phill with a lawsuit and he would settle out of court. lmao. All they did was look stupid, Their lawyers look stupid and aruba looks stupid once again. IMO
Follow the money, where did the kalpoes get the money to hire these lawyers? I would bet the same people funding the kalpoe lawsuit are behind that ridiculous renfro video that was linked here earlier. joran is overdue for another attention seeking publicity stunt. Wonder what it will be? lol lol lol

aruba - "stupid is as stupid does" lol love it
IMO

I missed Greta (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296798,00.html) because of the President's speech and the reaction.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Tonight, a possible breakthrough in the Natalee Holloway case. A California judge has ordered the Kalpoe brothers to turn over documents and e-mails that the judge says are relevant to the most fundamental issues in this case.

John Q. Kelly is an attorney for Natalee Holloway's parents. He joins us in New York.

John, you were part of this lawsuit originally, but your client got bounced out of it. Btu tell me, what is the order that this judge has issued and why is it significant?

[Heyes]

I think we all hope it goes to court. The Kalpoe lawyers don't seem to be in this for show, they mean business.
Do you think the kalpoes are going to turn over all the emails and documents?
I don't see it and according to JQK the kalpoes lawyer has a statement that he won't turn over any of it. According to JQK the court wasn't very pleased with the kalpoes response. If they don't agree to the rules of the court their case gets dismissed. To me it looks like the kalpoes lawyers were all about the threat of a lawsuit and the hope it would be settled out of court. They don't seem willing to play by the courts rules now. Gee how suprising is that? lol
I think the reverse is true, Dr. phil means business. But we'll see.

[Luke Davis]

Do you think the kalpoes are going to turn over all the emails and documents?
I don't see it and according to JQK the kalpoes lawyer has a statement that he won't turn over any of it. According to JQK the court wasn't very pleased with the kalpoes response. If they don't agree to the rules of the court their case gets dismissed. To me it looks like the kalpoes lawyers were all about the threat of a lawsuit and the hope it would be settled out of court. They don't seem willing to play by the courts rules now. Gee how suprising is that? lol
I think the reverse is true, Dr. phil means business. But we'll see.

Well, I like JQK but he has a streak of being wrong as far as this case. While some people gave him credit for trying to help, even he admits, his efforts have been Hail Mary's. At least, a judge hasn't dismissed the Kalpoe's case immediately. It appears to me, this is just Goliath trying to delay a victory by two Davids. Dr. Phil has the money to tie this case up for years. And you are right, at some point the Kalpoes or their lawyers may just give up due to frustration.

But I hope it goes all the way.

[Chocoholic]

Do you think the kalpoes are going to turn over all the emails and documents?
I don't see it and according to JQK the kalpoes lawyer has a statement that he won't turn over any of it. According to JQK the court wasn't very pleased with the kalpoes response. If they don't agree to the rules of the court their case gets dismissed. To me it looks like the kalpoes lawyers were all about the threat of a lawsuit and the hope it would be settled out of court. They don't seem willing to play by the courts rules now. Gee how suprising is that? lol
I think the reverse is true, Dr. phil means business. But we'll see.
Which Kalpoe lawyers are you talking about? The ones that filed for them in CA or the Aruban lawyers?

[Luke Davis]

on the record (http://zoltanzion.blogspot.com/2007/09/natalee-holloway-fox-news-9-13-2007.html)

Video with JQK

[Luke Davis]

Which Kalpoe lawyers are you talking about? The ones that filed for them in CA or the Aruban lawyers?
It does get confusing. I have lost count of lawyers involved and we still don't have any charges.

[Heyes]

Which Kalpoe lawyers are you talking about? The ones that filed for them in CA or the Aruban lawyers?

Does it matter? Either way the kalpoes are not complying with the court.






Follow the money!
Who is paying for the kalpoes numerous lawyers? Both in aruba and in the U.S.?????
If they are so innocent why not hand over what the court wants???
By the way, the kalpoe brothers reputation was in the tank before Dr. Phil got involved. Lets pretend this thing actually ends up in trial, how will they prove that it was Dr. Phill that ruined their good *cough* name?
I mean they are and have been known world wide as proven liars that were last known with a missing tourist. The ale arrested and held them on kidnapping, rape and murder. They are still suspects. kinda hard to blame Dr. Phil. lol
But what a fun show to watch. Boy i would pay for a seat in that court room. lol lol

[Luke Davis]

Does it matter? Either way the kalpoes are not complying with the court.






Follow the money!
Who is paying for the kalpoes numerous lawyers? Both in aruba and in the U.S.?????
If they are so innocent why not hand over what the court wants???
By the way, the kalpoe brothers reputation was in the tank before Dr. Phil got involved. Lets pretend this thing actually ends up in trial, how will they prove that it was Dr. Phill that ruined their good *cough* name?
I mean they are and have been known world wide as proven liars that were last known with a missing tourist. The ale arrested and held them on kidnapping, rape and murder. They are still suspects. kinda hard to blame Dr. Phil. lol
But what a fun show to watch. Boy i would pay for a seat in that court room. lol lol

I think seats will be easy to get. I just hope CTV or someone covers the trial. Seems to be very little information coming out about the lawsuit.

[Heyes]

I think seats will be easy to get. I just hope CTV or someone covers the trial. Seems to be very little information coming out about the lawsuit.

I just don't think this will continue much longer. Do we know how much time the judge gave the kalpoes to present the evidence?

[Luke Davis]

I just don't think this will continue much longer. Do we know how much time the judge gave the kalpoes to present the evidence?From the link I posted, I think Nov. 7 is the day to discuss that. Aruba could declare the case cold, release the information by then.:shrug:

[Heyes]

From the link I posted, I think Nov. 7 is the day to discuss that. Aruba could declare the case cold, release the information by then.:shrug:

I heard last night that the Dutch are back in aruba, of course I agree with Greta with her statement that, we've heard all this before so it's hard to believe anyone in aruba is actually doing anything regarding this case.
I doubt that aruba will release anything, and the kalpoes's attorney has stated in court that he will in no way release the discovery the court is seeking. Which is very telling.
Reaffirms my position that indeed joran, deepak, satish and paulus/anita are involved in Natalee's murder/disappearance and cover up.
IMO of course.

[Chocoholic]

Does it matter? Either way the kalpoes are not complying with the court.



Ok I give up, no sense discussing this case with you when you don't realize that the Aruban lawyers may have different documents that they cannot release than the US lawyers which they may be able to release. Additionally ALE may have documents that they haven't released to anybody. Such is what happens in ongoing investigations.

It's the thing about the ongoing investigation thingy, nothing big, easily overlooked. :rolleyes:

[Chocoholic]

Reaffirms my position that indeed joran, deepak, satish and paulus/anita are involved in Natalee's murder/disappearance and cover up.
IMO of course.

The Dutch would like your assistance. They still have no proof of the brutal gangrape, kidnapping and murder. It's news to me that Anita is now also under the umbrella of cover-up but I'm glad you're in the know. Can you please give them a call before this case is considered a cold case, or is that what bht would like?

Should only take a few more years for a death certificate to be issued then, they don't usually hand those over on day 10 of the disappearance of a woman.

[fairmaiden]

I heard last night that the Dutch are back in aruba, of course I agree with Greta with her statement that, we've heard all this before so it's hard to believe anyone in aruba is actually doing anything regarding this case.
I doubt that aruba will release anything, and the kalpoes's attorney has stated in court that he will in no way release the discovery the court is seeking. Which is very telling.
Reaffirms my position that indeed joran, deepak, satish and paulus/anita are involved in Natalee's murder/disappearance and cover up.
IMO of course.

Can you please elaborate on how you think Anita VanderSloot is involved in Natalee's murder/disappearance and coverup ??

TIA

JMO

[Heyes]

:rolleyes: The Dutch would like your assistance. They still have no proof of the brutal gangrape, kidnapping and murder. It's news to me that Anita is now also under the umbrella of cover-up but I'm glad you're in the know. Can you please give them a call before this case is considered a cold case, or is that what bht would like?

Should only take a few more years for a death certificate to be issued then, they don't usually hand those over on day 10 of the disappearance of a woman.

you seem to be the only one that doesn't understand that joran deepak and satish are still suspects in a brutal kidnapping, rape and murder case. Are you also oblivious to the fact that the ale has stated that anita is indeed involved in obstructing justice? I don't have to get in touch with the dutch, they already know and are back on the island investigating these very issues. :rolleyes:

[Heyes]

Can you please elaborate on how you think Anita VanderSloot is involved in Natalee's murder/disappearance and coverup ??

TIA

JMO

sure the ale or was it KJ who stated that anita is involved, obstructing justice I believe they called it. So you will have to talk to them, How would I know she was busy on the phone talking to other suspects unless it came from aruba. Not to mention the little "no body no case" pow wows that went on in her home. Yup it's my opinion as well as the ales the she is involved in obstructing justice.
look it up!
IMO

[fairmaiden]

I heard last night that the Dutch are back in aruba, of course I agree with Greta with her statement that, we've heard all this before so it's hard to believe anyone in aruba is actually doing anything regarding this case.
I doubt that aruba will release anything, and the kalpoes's attorney has stated in court that he will in no way release the discovery the court is seeking. Which is very telling.
Reaffirms my position that indeed joran, deepak, satish and paulus/anita are involved in Natalee's murder/disappearance and cover up.
IMO of course.

sure the ale or was it KJ who stated that anita is involved, obstructing justice I believe they called it. So you will have to talk to them, How would I know she was busy on the phone talking to other suspects unless it came from aruba. Not to mention the little "no body no case" pow wows that went on in her home. Yup it's my opinion as well as the ales the she is involved in obstructing justice.
look it up!
IMO

But that's not what you initially posted, Heyes .... as evidenced in the first post I quoted. You said your position is "that indeed joran, deepak, satish, and paulus/anita are involved in Natalee's murder/disappearance and coverup"?? Reading that, I take it you feel these people you mentioned are involved in murdering Natalee, causing Natalee to disappear, then covering up Natalee's disappearance.

I asked you to elaborate how you feel Anita is involved in those crimes ?? Those are YOUR feelings apparently .... I'm just asking you to elaborate on them.

ETA .... Incidentally, you told me I need to ask ALE to clarify YOUR position. It's YOUR position !!
JMO

[Chocoholic]

:rolleyes:

you seem to be the only one that doesn't understand that joran deepak and satish are still suspects in a brutal kidnapping, rape and murder case. Are you also oblivious to the fact that the ale has stated that anita is indeed involved in obstructing justice? I don't have to get in touch with the dutch, they already know and are back on the island investigating these very issues. :rolleyes:

I require a link that shows that ALE has stated as a fact that Anita v.d. Sloot is involved in obstructing justice. Not a Faux News link to Greta who is rather liberal in her interpretations of facts. TIA.

I'm fully aware that Joran, Deepak, Satish and a host of others that we do know about and perhaps some we DON'T know about may be persons of interest in the DISAPPEARANCE of Natalee Holloway. Since there is no evidence whatsoever of kidnapping and murder and even less of brutal rape, it's kinda hard to prove that a crime indeed took place. We could ask ALE to become corrupt and put false evidence in convenient places but then ALE would be considered corrupt. How odd would that be?

LOL KLPD is putting the finishing touches on closing the case, feel free to hold your breath for charges against J2K.

imo

[ortiga]

:rolleyes:

you seem to be the only one that doesn't understand that joran deepak and satish are still suspects in a brutal kidnapping, rape and murder case. Are you also oblivious to the fact that the ale has stated that anita is indeed involved in obstructing justice? I don't have to get in touch with the dutch, they already know and are back on the island investigating these very issues. :rolleyes:


They, and about 7 other people are suspects in a possible case of kidnapping, and/or rape and/or murder. Those crimes are only suspected of possibly happening. After 2 years with no evidence, looks to me like none of the suspects will be indicted for those theorized crimes that probably never ever took place.

IMO

When did ALE state that Anita is involved in obstruction of justice?

[Heyes]

I require a link that shows that ALE has stated as a fact that Anita v.d. Sloot is involved in obstructing justice. Not a Faux News link to Greta who is rather liberal in her interpretations of facts. TIA.

I'm fully aware that Joran, Deepak, Satish and a host of others that we do know about and perhaps some we DON'T know about may be persons of interest in the DISAPPEARANCE of Natalee Holloway. Since there is no evidence whatsoever of kidnapping and murder and even less of brutal rape, it's kinda hard to prove that a crime indeed took place. We could ask ALE to become corrupt and put false evidence in convenient places but then ALE would be considered corrupt. How odd would that be?

LOL KLPD is putting the finishing touches on closing the case, feel free to hold your breath for charges against J2K.

imo
you ask for links?
here's one that I'm sure has been posted here many times ,
Aruba's chief prosecutor Karin Janssen told CNN Wednesday the elder Van Der Sloot told his son that without a body police would have no case.Janssen said the judge made the comment "some days after" Holloway disappeared in a conversation with his son and the Kalpoes.

Investigators learned about his conversation with the three during questioning of one of the Kalpoe brothers, Janssen said, and when asked about the comment, the judge replied that he had been speaking about such a situation "generally



In addition, he and his wife, Anita, interfered in the case by asking a friend of their son what he had told police during questioning, Janssen said.

"That was not positive to the investigation," she saidhttp://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/30/aruba.missing/
Anita knows....... IMO

what anita did was interfer/obstruct.

Now how about a link telling us the Dutch are closing this case.
Do you know something others don't?
By the way I don't hold my breath over anything decided by aruba. I learned a long time ago you won't get any truth out of that tiny little backwards island. IMO of course

[Luke Davis]

sure the ale or was it KJ who stated that anita is involved, obstructing justice I believe they called it. So you will have to talk to them, How would I know she was busy on the phone talking to other suspects unless it came from aruba. Not to mention the little "no body no case" pow wows that went on in her home. Yup it's my opinion as well as the ales the she is involved in obstructing justice.
look it up!
IMO

Does this mean KJ is a good guy again?

[fairmaiden]

you ask for links?
here's one that I'm sure has been posted here many times ,
Aruba's chief prosecutor Karin Janssen told CNN Wednesday the elder Van Der Sloot told his son that without a body police would have no case.Janssen said the judge made the comment "some days after" Holloway disappeared in a conversation with his son and the Kalpoes.

Investigators learned about his conversation with the three during questioning of one of the Kalpoe brothers, Janssen said, and when asked about the comment, the judge replied that he had been speaking about such a situation "generally



In addition, he and his wife, Anita, interfered in the case by asking a friend of their son what he had told police during questioning, Janssen said.

"That was not positive to the investigation," she saidhttp://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/30/aruba.missing/
Anita knows....... IMO

what anita did was interfer/obstruct.

Now how about a link telling us the Dutch are closing this case.
Do you know something others don't?
By the way I don't hold my breath over anything decided by aruba. I learned a long time ago you won't get any truth out of that tiny little backwards island. IMO of course

Well .... this is a little different that Anita VDS being involved in murder/disappearance and coverup, isn't it??

JMO

[Mishell1383]

LOLOLOLOLOL Instead of the Can-Can we can call this the Aruba Cant-Cant

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/680506

http://scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Aruba_Suspects_JibJab1_small.jpg

[Heyes]

Does this mean KJ is a good guy again?


How does that make her a good guy?
:shrug:

[Chocoholic]

you ask for links?
here's one that I'm sure has been posted here many times ,
Aruba's chief prosecutor Karin Janssen told CNN Wednesday the elder Van Der Sloot told his son that without a body police would have no case.Janssen said the judge made the comment "some days after" Holloway disappeared in a conversation with his son and the Kalpoes.

Investigators learned about his conversation with the three during questioning of one of the Kalpoe brothers, Janssen said, and when asked about the comment, the judge replied that he had been speaking about such a situation "generally



In addition, he and his wife, Anita, interfered in the case by asking a friend of their son what he had told police during questioning, Janssen said.

"That was not positive to the investigation," she saidhttp://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/30/aruba.missing/
Anita knows....... IMO

what anita did was interfer/obstruct.

Now how about a link telling us the Dutch are closing this case.
Do you know something others don't?
By the way I don't hold my breath over anything decided by aruba. I learned a long time ago you won't get any truth out of that tiny little backwards island. IMO of course


This hardly covers your: Reaffirms my position that indeed joran, deepak, satish and paulus/anita are involved in Natalee's murder/disappearance and cover up. as a matter of fact it falls far short and I would go so far as to say it's twisting words 180 degrees.

Do you have a set of measures as to when you do or do not believe ALE?

[Luke Davis]

How does that make her a good guy?
:shrug:I thought you were quoting an Aruban resident.:shrug:

[Chocoholic]

Well .... this is a little different that Anita VDS being involved in murder/disappearance and coverup, isn't it??

JMO
VERY different FM. Very different indeed.

[Heyes]

Well .... this is a little different that Anita VDS being involved in murder/disappearance and coverup, isn't it??

JMO


anita vds obviously wasn't the murderer :rolleyes:
However she did try to "interfere" with the investigation.
In other words obstructing justice.
Being a little nit picky are we?
I think we've posted together long enough that you know what I meant when I lumped all the suspects together regarding the crimes against Natalee.

[Heyes]

LOLOLOLOLOL Instead of the Can-Can we can call this the Aruba Cant-Cant

http://www.jibjab.com/starring_you/receipt/680506

http://scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Aruba_Suspects_JibJab1_small.jpg



BWA HA HA HA HA That was priceless! Thanks Mishell!

[Heyes]

This hardly covers your: as a matter of fact it falls far short and I would go so far as to say it's twisting words 180 degrees.

Do you have a set of measures as to when you do or do not believe ALE?


How so? They look and sound and act guilty, they lie lie lie about their alibis, jorans attoryney even went to kj to mention his client was guilty. etc..... we've got reports of the parents participation. be it covering up or lying or trying to obstruct justice.
...:shrug:
Nope it doesn't fall short at all.

Did you watch greta the other night regarding Dr. Phil and the lawsuit?
How smart do you think these kalpoes and their lawyers are?
Stupid is as stupid does was I believe the statement given, in between all the laughter about aruba and it's bumblings that is. lmao!

[Chocoholic]

anita vds obviously wasn't the murderer :rolleyes:
However she did try to "interfere" with the investigation.
In other words obstructing justice.
Being a little nit picky are we?
I think we've posted together long enough that you know what I meant when I lumped all the suspects together regarding the crimes against Natalee.

There is no evidence of a murder, so how could she possibly assist with the coverup thereof, which is what you stated. Nice save, no go. You wlll have to be more precise with your postings.

imo

[Heyes]

There is no evidence of a murder, so how could she possibly assist with the coverup thereof, which is what you stated. Nice save, no go. You wlll have to be more precise with your postings.

imo
Why? I think there was a murder! Natalee's to be specific. Therefore, IMO anita's actions that KJ discuss's, (interfering in the investigation), IMO, makes her look like she's covering up her son's criminal acts. So there ya have it.:patriot:

[Heyes]

Is this your opinion or is it a fact? It seems there is another "imo" missing in your post.

Do you always quote TH's most favorite quotes? It doesn't show much original thought.

"We have reports" yup I'm sure Greta has plenty of "reports". She has though no more facts than you or I.

Holding your breath yet for those criminal charges?

Now getting personal doesn't help the debate.
I told you, I never hold my breath over anything remotely truthful or honest coming out of aruba.
IMO - there ya go!

[fairmaiden]

anita vds obviously wasn't the murderer :rolleyes:
However she did try to "interfere" with the investigation.
In other words obstructing justice.
Being a little nit picky are we?
I think we've posted together long enough that you know what I meant when I lumped all the suspects together regarding the crimes against Natalee.


Heyes .... I'm never really sure WHAT you think or feel. What I was surprised at was that you had lumped Anita VDS in when talking about murder, disappearance, and coverup. Nit-picky ??? I'm not even aware there was ANY murder .

JMO

[Chocoholic]

Why? I think there was a murder! Natalee's to be specific. Therefore, IMO anita's actions that KJ discuss's, (interfering in the investigation), IMO, makes her look like she's covering up her son's criminal acts. So there ya have it.:patriot:
Just because you THINK there was a murder (bht's version is brutally gangraped, kidnapped and murdered) doesn't make it so. Makes for great fiction though and it sells lots of tabloids.

imo

[Chocoholic]

Heyes .... I'm never really sure WHAT you think or feel. What I was surprised at was that you had lumped Anita VDS in when talking about murder, disappearance, and coverup. Nit-picky ??? I'm not even aware there was ANY murder .

JMO
Well it must be because bht says so everybody must believe it. Don't forget the word "brutally" as if bht was there as a witness. At most what has been admitted to is some fingering but that is far more vulgar than brutal gangrape. :shrug:

imo

[ortiga]

Well it must be because bht says so everybody must believe it. Don't forget the word "brutally" as if bht was there as a witness. At most what has been admitted to is some fingering but that is far more vulgar than brutal gangrape. :shrug:

imo


Oh that 53 (54 now?) year old Greta wanted to slink under the table when she heard of the fingering, OMG!......but she gave Twitty an open forum to snarl out her unfounded accusations of gang rape and kidnapping. Until reminded of slander laws, that is.

Can't wait to find out the truth of the Aruban kidnapping and its aftermath.

IMO

[Heyes]

It's a good day, O.J. is behind bars. it took 13 years but they got him. Now that gives me hope. It may take awhile but it's possible that someday we will get justice and I'll turn on the news to hear that joran, paulus, deepak and satish are back in jail. Sometimes ya just need a little patience.
IMO
:patriot:

[Heyes]

Heyes .... I'm never really sure WHAT you think or feel. What I was surprised at was that you had lumped Anita VDS in when talking about murder, disappearance, and coverup. Nit-picky ??? I'm not even aware there was ANY murder .

JMO

lol I like to keep you on your toes. lol
I believe anita tried to interfere with the investigation. The prosecutor also believed that. She was back on the island by the time paulus held his pow wows at their house. The prosecutor announced to cnn that anita interfered. So yes if was a family affair. joran, paulus and anita are all involved IMO in one aspect or another of Natalee's disappearance or if I go by the suspicions of aruba law enforcement and everyone else that dealt with this case..... kidnap, rape and murder.
IMO

[terrysdoor]

lol I like to keep you on your toes. lol
I believe anita tried to interfere with the investigation. The prosecutor also believed that. She was back on the island by the time paulus held his pow wows at their house. The prosecutor announced to cnn that anita interfered. So yes if was a family affair. joran, paulus and anita are all involved IMO in one aspect or another of Natalee's disappearance or if I go by the suspicions of aruba law enforcement and everyone else that dealt with this case..... kidnap, rape and murder.
IMO

Heyes.....Good morning I don`t remember the prosecutor naming Anita just Paulus and IRIC Dompig accused Beth of interfereing IIRC IMO

[Heyes]

Heyes.....Good morning I don`t remember the prosecutor naming Anita just Paulus and IRIC Dompig accused Beth of interfereing IIRC IMO


Terry here ya go. I have had to post this many times, Even though I have the proof that the KJ , aruba's chief prosecutor stated this, I am always basically called a liar and asked again and again to post this. It is a fact in the case that Anita interfered in the opinion of the prosecutors office and in my opinon. I feel Anita knows more than she's willing to tell and was trying to find a way to manipulate this investigation. considering the prosecutor felt that this was "not positive to the investigation", shows that they too have their suspicions regarding the mother of joran.

Judge Paul Van Der Sloot, Joran's father, was arrested a week ago, but was released a few days later.

Aruba's chief prosecutor Karin Janssen told CNN Wednesday the elder Van Der Sloot told his son that without a body police would have no case.

Janssen said the judge made the comment "some days after" Holloway disappeared in a conversation with his son and the Kalpoes.

Investigators learned about his conversation with the three during questioning of one of the Kalpoe brothers, Janssen said, and when asked about the comment, the judge replied that he had been speaking about such a situation "generally."

In addition, he and his wife, Anita, interfered in the case by asking a friend of their son what he had told police during questioning, Janssen said.

"That was not positive to the investigation," she said.http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/30/aruba.missing/

anita is married to a judge/judge in training whatever he claimed to be. She knows the rules and so does paulus. With their actions, it leaves the door wide open to assume they were obstructing justice.


IMO

[Luke Davis]

Is the “International Safe Travels Foundation” still working? I can't find the site.

[fairmaiden]

Is the “International Safe Travels Foundation” still working? I can't find the site.


Morning Luke .... :seeya:


http://www.internationalsafetravelsfoundation.org/MS/MS37/

I haven't heard about Beth's "travels" lately .... therefore I'm not sure if she still travels around the country cautioning kids about traveling safely .... I found the site easily enough though.

ETA .... Oh .... I should have said "traveling around the country cautioning kids about traveling safely .... AND .... telling "Natalee's Story" .... you know, the TRUTH about what happened that night.

ETA .... I always notice on that site .... the "Make A Donation" heading is always set apart somehow . It's either flashing, or in this case, goes from blue to red..

JMO

[SukiJane]

Morning Luke .... :seeya:


http://www.internationalsafetravelsfoundation.org/MS/MS37/

I haven't heard about Beth's "travels" lately .... therefore I'm not sure if she still travels around the country cautioning kids about traveling safely .... I found the site easily enough though.

ETA .... Oh .... I should have said "traveling around the country cautioning kids about traveling safely .... AND .... telling "Natalee's Story" .... you know, the TRUTH about what happened that night.

ETA .... I always notice on that site .... the "Make A Donation" heading is always set apart somehow . It's either flashing, or in this case, goes from blue to red..

JMO

I guess if I despised Beth's actions as much as some people here, I too would try and find fault with any and everything associated with her.

Since I don't, I have to say this is a wonderful website for travelers visiting foreign countries. There is a wealth of information at ISTF, and guess what, you don't have to make a donation to use it. All linked information, but all very conveniently accessed from one easy to read website.

jmo

[Luke Davis]

Morning Luke .... :seeya:


http://www.internationalsafetravelsfoundation.org/MS/MS37/

I haven't heard about Beth's "travels" lately .... therefore I'm not sure if she still travels around the country cautioning kids about traveling safely .... I found the site easily enough though.

ETA .... Oh .... I should have said "traveling around the country cautioning kids about traveling safely .... AND .... telling "Natalee's Story" .... you know, the TRUTH about what happened that night.

ETA .... I always notice on that site .... the "Make A Donation" heading is always set apart somehow . It's either flashing, or in this case, goes from blue to red..

JMO

Good morning fairmaiden and thanks. :seeya:

It appears the site was being updated when I tried, because I got the message it was unavailable. I see they added a link to an article about chaperones.

Chaperones keep an eye on safety (http://teensmonthly.com/content/view/2/27/)

[terrysdoor]

Terry here ya go. I have had to post this many times, Even though I have the proof that the KJ , aruba's chief prosecutor stated this, I am always basically called a liar and asked again and again to post this. It is a fact in the case that Anita interfered in the opinion of the prosecutors office and in my opinon. I feel Anita knows more than she's willing to tell and was trying to find a way to manipulate this investigation. considering the prosecutor felt that this was "not positive to the investigation", shows that they too have their suspicions regarding the mother of joran.

Judge Paul Van Der Sloot, Joran's father, was arrested a week ago, but was released a few days later.

Aruba's chief prosecutor Karin Janssen told CNN Wednesday the elder Van Der Sloot told his son that without a body police would have no case.

Janssen said the judge made the comment "some days after" Holloway disappeared in a conversation with his son and the Kalpoes.

Investigators learned about his conversation with the three during questioning of one of the Kalpoe brothers, Janssen said, and when asked about the comment, the judge replied that he had been speaking about such a situation "generally."

In addition, he and his wife, Anita, interfered in the case by asking a friend of their son what he had told police during questioning, Janssen said.

"That was not positive to the investigation," she said.http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/30/aruba.missing/

anita is married to a judge/judge in training whatever he claimed to be. She knows the rules and so does paulus. With their actions, it leaves the door wide open to assume they were obstructing justice.


IMO

oh Heyes i wasn`t calling you a liar i just did not remember thanks for the info

[Luke Davis]

Terry here ya go. I have had to post this many times, Even though I have the proof that the KJ , aruba's chief prosecutor stated this, I am always basically called a liar and asked again and again to post this. It is a fact in the case that Anita interfered in the opinion of the prosecutors office and in my opinon. I feel Anita knows more than she's willing to tell and was trying to find a way to manipulate this investigation. considering the prosecutor felt that this was "not positive to the investigation", shows that they too have their suspicions regarding the mother of joran.

Judge Paul Van Der Sloot, Joran's father, was arrested a week ago, but was released a few days later.

Aruba's chief prosecutor Karin Janssen told CNN Wednesday the elder Van Der Sloot told his son that without a body police would have no case.

Janssen said the judge made the comment "some days after" Holloway disappeared in a conversation with his son and the Kalpoes.

Investigators learned about his conversation with the three during questioning of one of the Kalpoe brothers, Janssen said, and when asked about the comment, the judge replied that he had been speaking about such a situation "generally."

In addition, he and his wife, Anita, interfered in the case by asking a friend of their son what he had told police during questioning, Janssen said.

"That was not positive to the investigation," she said.http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/30/aruba.missing/

anita is married to a judge/judge in training whatever he claimed to be. She knows the rules and so does paulus. With their actions, it leaves the door wide open to assume they were obstructing justice.


IMO

without a body police would have no case.

How does anyone interfere with no case?

[SukiJane]

(snipped)

How does anyone interfere with no case?


Perhaps the same way someone can determine the cause of death without a body?:shrug:

jmo

[Luke Davis]

Perhaps the same way someone can determine the cause of death without a body?:shrug:

jmo
Sounds like we are back to the psychics!:shrug:

[cassidy]

Sounds like we are back to the psychics!:shrug:

Oh please...NO! :)

[Heyes]

without a body police would have no case.

How does anyone interfere with no case?


By hiding the body.
This statement within hours after Natalee's "disappearance", is IMO extremely suspicious. This is not a normal conversation unless PVDS knew Natalee was no longer among the living. I can't see one reason to say this unless he was confident that the "body" would not be found. If she had just walked off, this would not be a normal response to 3 nervous frightened young men. nope I aint buying into it!

IMO

[Heyes]

oh Heyes i wasn`t calling you a liar i just did not remember thanks for the info


I didn't mean to refer to you terry. sorry if it seemed that way. I'm just tired of posting it. lol
Your welcome. Hopefully we can lay this to rest now. It is a fact that the prosecutor felt that anita interfered with the investigation , which last I heard is obstruction of justice.
IMO

[Luke Davis]

I didn't mean to refer to you terry. sorry if it seemed that way. I'm just tired of posting it. lol
Your welcome. Hopefully we can lay this to rest now. It is a fact that the prosecutor felt that anita interfered with the investigation , which last I heard is obstruction of justice.
IMOI guess the question is, is there a case? No. So, there is no interferance. No body, no case. I know, Greta, Nancy, Dan and a host of others think there is a case and it can be prosecuted but Paulus has been right and remains so. NO BODY, NO CASE. Hopefully, everyone understands now.

[Heyes]

I guess the question is, is there a case? No. So, there is no interferance. No body, no case. I know, Greta, Nancy, Dan and a host of others think there is a case and it can be prosecuted but Paulus has been right and remains so. NO BODY, NO CASE. Hopefully, everyone understands now.

Trust me, we get it!

IMO, it means no justice for Natalee or her family.
Sad, very sad.
Hopefully the Karma police are watching....;)

[Luke Davis]

Trust me, we get it!

IMO, it means no justice for Natalee or her family.
Sad, very sad.
Hopefully the Karma police are watching....;)
Hopefully the Karma police have been watching for a long time. Perhaps that is justice.

[fairmaiden]

I guess if I despised Beth's actions as much as some people here, I too would try and find fault with any and everything associated with her.

Since I don't, I have to say this is a wonderful website for travelers visiting foreign countries. There is a wealth of information at ISTF, and guess what, you don't have to make a donation to use it. All linked information, but all very conveniently accessed from one easy to read website.

jmo

KUDOS, Suki .... You finally got it right !!! You made an appropriate distinction. It's Beth's ACTIONS some despise. I believe you know how I feel about ISTF, Suki .... it's nothing new.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Trust me, we get it!

IMO, it means no justice for Natalee or her family.
Sad, very sad.
Hopefully the Karma police are watching....;)

Well, let's see .... As of today, Natalee's body hasn't been found ((unless I missed some late-breaking news)). It's a simple question, Heyes .... how can you determine Natalee was murdered when no body has been found ?? I'm with other posters when it comes to this .... would you rather Natalee WAS murdered, rather than her leaving voluntarily ??

JMO

[Chocoholic]

Well, let's see .... As of today, Natalee's body hasn't been found ((unless I missed some late-breaking news)). It's a simple question, Heyes .... how can you determine Natalee was murdered when no body has been found ?? I'm with other posters when it comes to this .... would you rather Natalee WAS murdered, rather than her leaving voluntarily ??

JMO
Not only that, if there is no physical circumstantial evidence to support that a person was murdered, how do you prove a murder?

Cases have been prosecuted without a body, This is one of them:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/classics/capano/1.html

However there was a lot of circumstantial evidence, including blood evidence, purchase of a gun, man who wanted an affair but Anne Marie Fahey broke it off in favor of pursuing a relationship with her former boyfriend. Plenty of other physical circumstantial evidence and an eyewitness to some key components in the case.

Body was never found. A cooler with a bullet hole was, much much later.

Read the case to find out how much evidence the prosecutor had before they could even go to trial, and this included (IIRC) a plea deal.

[Luke Davis]

Not only that, if there is no physical circumstantial evidence to support that a person was murdered, how do you prove a murder?

Cases have been prosecuted without a body, This is one of them:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/classics/capano/1.html

However there was a lot of circumstantial evidence, including blood evidence, purchase of a gun, man who wanted an affair but Anne Marie Fahey broke it off in favor of pursuing a relationship with her former boyfriend. Plenty of other physical circumstantial evidence and an eyewitness to some key components in the case.

Body was never found. A cooler with a bullet hole was, much much later.

Read the case to find out how much evidence the prosecutor had before they could even go to trial, and this included (IIRC) a plea deal.

In Aruba, no body, no case. Never been done in Aruba.

[Luke Davis]

Hey sorry, if aruba hadn't held joran, deepak, satish and paulus for kidnapping rape and murder. I wouldn't be talking about it.
The fact that they, (not paulus), have not been released from suspect status keeps them in the news. It's not just me, however you know that.
:patriot:
In my opinion, it looks like the suspects are guilty as sin, including paulus and anita.

Why just those?

[Heyes]

Why just those?

True, there are, what ten suspects? However it was joran that IMO was the ring leader.
Island games!

[Luke Davis]

True, there are, what ten suspects? However it was joran that IMO was the ring leader.
Island games!I think the most interesting is Steve Croes but since no one reports on him, there is little to discuss. If Joran is the ring leader, Steve is the nexus.

[Heyes]

I think the most interesting is Steve Croes but since no one reports on him, there is little to discuss. If Joran is the ring leader, Steve is the nexus.


Very possible, The names are beginning to slip, I'll have to do some research for a refresher course but there were a plethora of suspicious activites and statements by many.
imo

[terrysdoor]

I think the most interesting is Steve Croes but since no one reports on him, there is little to discuss. If Joran is the ring leader, Steve is the nexus.

Luke.... is he the guy who owns a phone company and greets people at the airport? IMO

[Luke Davis]

Luke.... is he the guy who owns a phone company and greets people at the airport? IMOSteve Croes was the disc jockey who worked on the tourists boat where some of the Brookies went. He was a friend of GVC and knew the security guards. He lied to Greta and said he only knew Deepak, who he didn't know. As far as I can tell, everything he said was a lie and he came in voluntarily.

Most people, at the time, thought he just wanted 15 minutes of fame. But I think there was more, just don't know what.

[terrysdoor]

Steve Croes was the disc jockey who worked on the tourists boat where some of the Brookies went. He was a friend of GVC and knew the security guards. He lied to Greta and said he only knew Deepak, who he didn't know. As far as I can tell, everything he said was a lie and he came in voluntarily.

Most people, at the time, thought he just wanted 15 minutes of fame. But I think there was more, just don't know what.

thank you wise luke it has been so long my memory is fading LOL IMO

[ortiga]

Good morning everyone!

Have there been any leaks yet....publicity-wise.....over the truth of the Aruba kidnapping and it's aftermath? What is the publishing date of the truth? Is Sunny Tillman in or out of the project?

I can't wait to find out the truth, the whole truth......

I notice that FINALLY there is a picture of Natalee on the ISTF site, but of course it is accompanied by a photo of the mother.... to advertise the book.

Poor Natalee.

:(

[SukiJane]

In Aruba, no body, no case. Never been done in Aruba.

Then what the heck is the hold-up and why don't they just close the case? What's up with the recent cockamamie story about a decision being made in November?

[SukiJane]

I think the most interesting is Steve Croes but since no one reports on him, there is little to discuss. If Joran is the ring leader, Steve is the nexus.

The most interesting people in my opinion are Guido (reasonable suspicion of heavy battery?...good grief) GVC (drugs, and the family security business) Freddy (the photographer, the keeper of the truth, and is in possession of a camera,that either Deepak or Satish, can't remember, talked about. We also had very little information on my three most interesting people in this case.

Oh, forgot one other interesting person...Karen Martinez!

jmo

[SukiJane]

Good morning everyone!

Have there been any leaks yet....publicity-wise.....over the truth of the Aruba kidnapping and it's aftermath? What is the publishing date of the truth? Is Sunny Tillman in or out of the project?

I can't wait to find out the truth, the whole truth......

I notice that FINALLY there is a picture of Natalee on the ISTF site, but of course it is accompanied by a photo of the mother.... to advertise the book.

Poor Natalee.

:(

What will you use to prove Beth's story is not the truth? Joran's lies??...LOL that should be good for a big barrel of laughs!

I agree poor Natalee. A young girl with a seemingly bright future, meeting up with such a pathetic loser such as Joran.

jmo

[ortiga]

What will you use to prove Beth's story is not the truth? Joran's lies??...LOL that should be good for a big barrel of laughs!

I agree poor Natalee. A young girl with a seemingly bright future, meeting up with such a pathetic loser such as Joran.

jmo

I wonder if Natalee would have wanted her face to be used on the internet to sell a book written by the mother? I guess BHT wanted to wait for the profits from the book, more than 2 years later, instead of informing the FBI, the Dutch, and ALE of the "truth". And Natalee's embroidered underwear to be discussed on international TV, also by the mother...would Natalee have chosen that venue for such a discussion? Choosing Nancy Grace as a forum for this..........good grief. And then on Greta, BHT releasing the factoid that 14 pairs of underpanties were part of the contents of the girl's luggage...IIRC.

Oh, yes, and the aftermath. I guess "aftermath" refers to Twitty's string of events, appearances, and fundraisers wherein she called teenage boys rapists, murderers, predators, and kidnappers. Please push donation button to encourage more of the same. And tried to ruin the families of the boys, and the families of the whole island in her efforts to curtail IMO any investigation on the American side.

Poor Natalee, being used to make money by her own mother. :(

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Then what the heck is the hold-up and why don't they just close the case? What's up with the recent cockamamie story about a decision being made in November?Did they think Tim Miller was going to find the body?

[ortiga]

Hey, according to Wal-Mart, the product is now in stock, at a discount price of 15.81. No reviews yet, though. That's only about the equivalent of 3 McDonald's happy meals....or a good movie with large buttered popcorn........surely someone will buy it and give us a report on the truth we've all been waiting for.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5820218#About+the+Book

If you order it today on the net you'll be able to read it by Tuesday......

[Heyes]

Hey, according to Wal-Mart, the product is now in stock, at a discount price of 15.81. No reviews yet, though. That's only about the equivalent of 3 McDonald's happy meals....or a good movie with large buttered popcorn........surely someone will buy it and give us a report on the truth we've all been waiting for.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5820218#About+the+Book

If you order it today on the net you'll be able to read it by Tuesday......
It is good to see you've finely come around to the truth. As often as you have repeated the words kidnapping, rape, and murder I knew it was just a matter of time.
As far as the price of the book goes......... you do know that that's what you can buy all the best sellers for if your a smart shopper don't you? Gosh I hope your not out there actually paying full retail. If you need some smart shopper tips, pm me, I'll give ya the scoop! :seeya:

[Heyes]

The most interesting people in my opinion are Guido (reasonable suspicion of heavy battery?...good grief) GVC (drugs, and the family security business) Freddy (the photographer, the keeper of the truth, and is in possession of a camera,that either Deepak or Satish, can't remember, talked about. We also had very little information on my three most interesting people in this case.

Oh, forgot one other interesting person...Karen Martinez!

jmo

brain fade, I don't remember Karen Martinez, is that the girl that had a bad experience with joran? Well that is until, who was it......one of paulus buddies, got ahold of her.

[Heyes]

I wonder if Natalee would have wanted her face to be used on the internet to sell a book written by the mother? I guess BHT wanted to wait for the profits from the book, more than 2 years later, instead of informing the FBI, the Dutch, and ALE of the "truth". And Natalee's embroidered underwear to be discussed on international TV, also by the mother...would Natalee have chosen that venue for such a discussion? Choosing Nancy Grace as a forum for this..........good grief. And then on Greta, BHT releasing the factoid that 14 pairs of underpanties were part of the contents of the girl's luggage...IIRC.

Oh, yes, and the aftermath. I guess "aftermath" refers to Twitty's string of events, appearances, and fundraisers wherein she called teenage boys rapists, murderers, predators, and kidnappers. Please push donation button to encourage more of the same. And tried to ruin the families of the boys, and the families of the whole island in her efforts to curtail IMO any investigation on the American side.

Poor Natalee, being used to make money by her own mother. :(

IMO
I assume you feel the same about joran using Natalee's name and picture on his book?

[Luke Davis]

Hey, according to Wal-Mart, the product is now in stock, at a discount price of 15.81. No reviews yet, though. That's only about the equivalent of 3 McDonald's happy meals....or a good movie with large buttered popcorn........surely someone will buy it and give us a report on the truth we've all been waiting for.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5820218#About+the+Book

If you order it today on the net you'll be able to read it by Tuesday......About a dozen comments here, but I doubt anyone read the book.

Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/This-Book-Is-A-Sham/forum/FxMPR9K22YEOCZ/TxJY9HR08IXE1C/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_tft_tp/105-6674853-3138025?%5Fencoding=UTF8&cdAnchor=0061452270&asin=0061452270&store=books)

[ortiga]

I assume you feel the same about joran using Natalee's name and picture on his book?

No, I don't. I think he is one of the main victims in this case, accused without proof of doing heinous crimes, by the mother, all without an iota of proof. He has the right to explain his side of the story, coming from a situation which was pretty much thrust upon him, and I do believe was not his fault, nor do I think the date was his idea. Was Natalee's picture on the cover? I didn't buy the book so maybe you can fill me in?

It's the use of Natalee's name to sell or endorse Natalee products by her mother and father that smacks of low class, but that's just my opinion.

I can't imagine anyone in my family trying to earn money off the disappearance of one of our beloved family members. :(

IMO

[ortiga]

It is good to see you've finely come around to the truth. As often as you have repeated the words kidnapping, rape, and murder I knew it was just a matter of time.
As far as the price of the book goes......... you do know that that's what you can buy all the best sellers for if your a smart shopper don't you? Gosh I hope your not out there actually paying full retail. If you need some smart shopper tips, pm me, I'll give ya the scoop! :seeya:


I haven't been in a Wal Mart in this century. But the book is .46 cheaper there than at Amazon, so there will probably be a stampede.

IMO

[ortiga]

About a dozen comments here, but I doubt anyone read the book.

Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/This-Book-Is-A-Sham/forum/FxMPR9K22YEOCZ/TxJY9HR08IXE1C/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_tft_tp/105-6674853-3138025?%5Fencoding=UTF8&cdAnchor=0061452270&asin=0061452270&store=books)


Thanks for the link!

There are some interesting comments there:

"Sharon Rocha gave the proceeds from her book to a local Search & Rescue team. Has Ms. Holloway disclosed the name of the charity to which her proceeds will be given?"
--------------------------
And one that I take it is just for chuckles....... "Beth Holloway -- a hero and role model for mothers everywhere." :eek:

http://www.amazon.com/This-Book-Is-A-Sham/forum/FxMPR9K22YEOCZ/TxJY9HR08IXE1C/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_tft_tp/105-6674853-3138025?%5Fencoding=UTF8&cdAnchor=0061452270&asin=0061452270&store=books#

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Atlanta (http://atlantahappenings.creativeloafing.com/gbase/Events/Event?oid=oid%3A396588&max=10)

Signs and discusses Loving Natalee.

[ortiga]

Atlanta (http://atlantahappenings.creativeloafing.com/gbase/Events/Event?oid=oid%3A396588&max=10)

Signs and discusses Loving Natalee.

I guess Buckhead is a place in Atlanta.

http://atlantahappenings.creativeloafing.com/gbase/Events/Results?oid=oid%3A13453&sortType=date&startIndex=11&searchDate=all&searchArea=all&max=10

According to the web site, other books being "signed" between now and Oct 4 include:

"Shoot Him If He Runs"

"Selfish and Perverse"

"It's Not About the Accent"

"The People-Profit Connection: How Emotional Intelligence Can Maximize People Skills and Maximize Your Profits"

"Loving Natalee"

then, the next day: "Confessions of a Video Vixen" by K Steffans.

:biggrin:

[ortiga]

I wonder if they buy at Barnes and Noble to get a member price of

Members Pay:
$17.96 http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?ean=9780061452277

Or will they burn rubber over to Wal Mart to get it for 15.81.

Pretty soon it will be like Dave's book....you get one free for a donation of 100.00

IMO

[terrysdoor]

I wonder if they buy at Barnes and Noble to get a member price of

Members Pay:
$17.96 http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?ean=9780061452277

Or will they burn rubber over to Wal Mart to get it for 15.81.

Pretty soon it will be like Dave's book....you get one free for a donation of 100.00

IMO

i wonder if someone will post page after page on the internet like Joran`s was ? IMO

[fairmaiden]

I wonder if they buy at Barnes and Noble to get a member price of

Members Pay:
$17.96 http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?ean=9780061452277

Or will they burn rubber over to Wal Mart to get it for 15.81.

Pretty soon it will be like Dave's book....you get one free for a donation of 100.00

IMO

LOL ortiga .... :seeya:

I have visions of everyone burnin' rubber now .... lolol

JMO

[fairmaiden]

i wonder if someone will post page after page on the internet like Joran`s was ? IMO

Hi terry .... :seeya:

I must say I'm interested in "THE TRUTH", but not REMOTELY interested enough to buy this book .... ;)

JMO

[Luke Davis]

coming my way (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=91048170)

Close to Scott Peterson.

[Luke Davis]

i wonder if someone will post page after page on the internet like Joran`s was ? IMOI wonder if someone will translate it, from Beth speak?

[ortiga]

Hi terry .... :seeya:

I must say I'm interested in "THE TRUTH", but not REMOTELY interested enough to buy this book .... ;)

JMO

I think we already have most of it here on the board.....on the public statements of Beth and Dave thread.

[ortiga]

coming my way (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=91048170)

Close to Scott Peterson.

You can buy Beth's book together with "Blonde Ambition: The Untold Story Behind Anna Nicole Smith's Death" for only 30.86.

"Better together"

http://www.amazon.com/Loving-Natalee-Mothers-Testament-Faith/dp/0061452270/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-0709571-9697649?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190402477&sr=8-1

I'll bet.


IMO

[ortiga]

I wonder if someone will translate it, from Beth speak?


You know, that's a huge question. It's not crystal clear to me how that will be handled, but maybe it's just not relevant to being where we want to be on this day.

IMO

[terrysdoor]

Hi terry .... :seeya:

I must say I'm interested in "THE TRUTH", but not REMOTELY interested enough to buy this book .... ;)

JMO

Hi fair...... i borrowed Dave`s and was glad i did not spend money on it IMO it was not very well put together kind of a ramble from one thing to the next IMO

[ortiga]

Hi fair...... i borrowed Dave`s and was glad i did not spend money on it IMO it was not very well put together kind of a ramble from one thing to the next IMO

I never read his book, but if it was anything like his promotional TV interviews I can certainly believe "ramble from one thing to the next".

From what I saw of Joran's book on Scrux, it was translated, then paraphrased to avoid copyright violations. Maybe it was posted word for word somewhere else?

I doubt that there will be anything new in Beth's book, but it will be interesting to see how she morphs "loving Natalee a testament of faith and hope" into "the true story of the Aruba kidnapping and its aftermath". To my mind, she either loves her daughter and has faith and hope OR she goes on about kidnapping, rape, murder, corruption, etc. Hard to imagine how the two trains of thought are not mutually exclusive.

But of course the "true story" of the, er, "kidnapping", (Beth's version) will be eminently more marketable.

IMO

[ortiga]

coming my way (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=91048170)

Close to Scott Peterson.

"Fri., Oct. 19, 7 p.m. Don Lattin talks about Jesus Freaks: A True Story of Murder and Madness on the Evangelical Edge
Sat., Oct. 20, 2 p.m. Beth Holloway talks about Loving Natalee: A Mother's Testament of Hope and Faith
Sat., Oct. 20, 4 p.m. Martin Langfield talks about The Malice Box"

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=91048170

[SukiJane]

brain fade, I don't remember Karen Martinez, is that the girl that had a bad experience with joran? Well that is until, who was it......one of paulus buddies, got ahold of her.

I believe her name is Martina and not Martinez, sorry. Yessss, I believe she had a bad experience with Joran, but fortunately SHE actually lived. Something about receiving a drink from Joran that made her lips go numb...yikes!!

You're right someone got to her before she could do anymore damage to Joran's 'good' reputation. Then there was an affidavit attached to Joe T's filings where Karin actually denies all things bad about Joran. Of course, this statement was witnessed by one of Joe T's associates in a way to make it APPEAR like it was notarized...lol

jmo

[SukiJane]

About a dozen comments here, but I doubt anyone read the book.

Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/This-Book-Is-A-Sham/forum/FxMPR9K22YEOCZ/TxJY9HR08IXE1C/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_tft_tp/105-6674853-3138025?%5Fencoding=UTF8&cdAnchor=0061452270&asin=0061452270&store=books)

Ain't it funny to see the silly games being played by the beth haters. Notice how those that supported Beth have their comments hidden with something about 'posters didn't think this comment added to the discussion'....LOL

jmo

[Luke Davis]

Ain't it funny to see the silly games being played by the beth haters. Notice how those that supported Beth have their comments hidden with something about 'posters didn't think this comment added to the discussion'....LOL

jmoSince it appears anyone can comment, one can only wonder where those who support Beth have gone. Perhaps they are supporting Mary Winkler.

[ortiga]

Since it appears anyone can comment, one can only wonder where those who support Beth have gone. Perhaps they are supporting Mary Winkler.

I think some of them are over on the McCann board castigating the mother of Madeleine for appearing to be money grubbing and publicity seeking. :rolleyes:

[SukiJane]

Hi fair...... i borrowed Dave`s and was glad i did not spend money on it IMO it was not very well put together kind of a ramble from one thing to the next IMO

From what I've seen coming out of Aruba for the past 2 years, nothing seems to be very well put together, and your right, kind of a ramble from one thing to the next.

jmo

[ortiga]

From what I've seen coming out of Aruba for the past 2 years, nothing seems to be very well put together, and your right, kind of a ramble from one thing to the next.

jmo

That's because, it's somewhat like the Portugal case, the LEs are limited to what they can release. So, the press takes up the slack and publishes what it wants to, regardless of accuracy or basis of truth. Somewhat like the role that Beth Twitty assigned to herself in the Aruba case....official rumor monger, chief judge, foreman of jury, and sentencer of people she didn't care for. IMO.

Many similarities in the 2 cases, although the 2 missing females are worlds apart in age, and of course, Natalee didn't go missing from her hotel room.

IMO

[terrysdoor]

From what I've seen coming out of Aruba for the past 2 years, nothing seems to be very well put together, and your right, kind of a ramble from one thing to the next.

jmo

IMO noone has told the same story twice on either side to me that is what makes this case strange IMO

[SukiJane]

Since it appears anyone can comment, one can only wonder where those who support Beth have gone. Perhaps they are supporting Mary Winkler.

I think those that support Natalee's family don't want to play the silly internet games, I know I don't. Comments on a book before it's release? Nice...do you actually support this madness?


jmo

[Luke Davis]

From what I've seen coming out of Aruba for the past 2 years, nothing seems to be very well put together, and your right, kind of a ramble from one thing to the next.

jmoMaybe that's why it was a traditional trip for the Brookies.

[ortiga]

I think those that support Natalee's family don't want to play the silly internet games, I know I don't. Comments on a book before it's release? Nice...do you actually support this madness?


jmo

Then do you think that those that support Natalee's family would call for conviction of suspects before a trial has occurred?

Or would people like that support calling teenagers murderers and gang rapists on television without any proof?

I guess those that support Natalee's family would not want to play any silly internet games.

IMo

[Luke Davis]

I think those that support Natalee's family don't want to play the silly internet games, I know I don't. Comments on a book before it's release? Nice...do you actually support this madness?


jmoI can see why some people would lose attraction by reading the cover. I don't see why they want to upset people before they read the book.

Why not put something on the cover that would make people want to read more?

[ortiga]

I can see why some people would lose attraction by reading the cover. I don't see why they want to upset people before they read the book.

Why not put something on the cover that would make people want to read more?


You have the knack of hitting the nail directly on the head. I could have given her the benefit of the doubt, of having changed, and I could have accepted, with hardly any comment at all, the title of the book: Loving Natalee, a mother's testament of faith and hope.

But the sub title contradicts the title, obviously she doesn't know the truth of what happened to Natalee, much less that she was actually kidnapped. So right there on the cover is one big fat lie, IMO.

IMO

[SukiJane]

Maybe that's why it was a traditional trip for the Brookies.

LOL...maybe so.

I assume Joran was still living in the house where his parents could actually keep an eye on him, during previous trips made by the MB graduating classes, therefore everyone made it home safely.

jmo

[ortiga]

LOL...maybe so.

I assume Joran was still living in the house where his parents could actually keep an eye on him, during previous trips made by the MB graduating classes, therefore everyone made it home safely.

jmo

I concur, without a doubt, with the essence of his statement, paraphrased, that if he would have stayed home, that the whole thing would have happened to someone else.

IMO

[SukiJane]

I can see why some people would lose attraction by reading the cover. I don't see why they want to upset people before they read the book.

Why not put something on the cover that would make people want to read more?


It would seem to me that if a person didn't know much about this case, that title would be most appealing. The point is the comments are made by posters that have obviously followed this case. Nothing new just the same ole message board garbage being slung at the family.

jmo

[SukiJane]

Then do you think that those that support Natalee's family would call for conviction of suspects before a trial has occurred?

Or would people like that support calling teenagers murderers and gang rapists on television without any proof?

I guess those that support Natalee's family would not want to play any silly internet games.

IMo


One thing about it, Beth is definitely the strong one here...She has stood by her convictions for the most part, unlike the powers in Aruba, that have sunk to sewer level to try and save face.

jmo

[ortiga]

It would seem to me that if a person didn't know much about this case, that title would be most appealing. The point is the comments are made by posters that have obviously followed this case. Nothing new just the same ole message board garbage being slung at the family.

jmo

Is any member of the "family" responsible for the title and subtitle of the book besides Beth Twitty, or Holloway, whatever her name is now?

She doesn't really appear to have much family now, twice divorced, one child now, and her own brother not honoring the boycott.

Dave and the real Mrs. Holloway called off their support of the boycott.

So I think we can do away with the criticism of message board garbage being slung at the "family". Beth is responsible for her own actions, no other member of her family is.

IMO

[ortiga]

One thing about it, Beth is definitely the strong one here...She has stood by her convictions for the most part, unlike the powers in Aruba, that have sunk to sewer level to try and save face.

jmo

"sunk to sewer level"??? Which of the "powers" in Aruba did that?

[ortiga]

"Instead of looking in the mirror and blaming themselves, the McCanns are accusing Portuguese authorities of ineptitude and indifference. Reminds me of the reprehensible Beth Holloway cast blame on the Aruban police, instead of castigating herself for sending her daughter to a poorly supervised trip to an island well known as a hedonistic paradise."

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=37772

[Chocoholic]

"sunk to sewer level"??? Which of the "powers" in Aruba did that?

You know, ALE, the marines that searched the waters, the F16 that were asked for and brought out, the volunteers, the government workers who were given the day off to assist with the search, the restauranteurs and barkeeps that kept bht fed and well liquored up, the free hotel rooms. It's nothing really, nobody in Aruba really cared, unlike the brookies who bent over backwards to find their friend.

imo

[Grandad]

<snip>
Then there was an affidavit attached to Joe T's filings where Karin actually denies all things bad about Joran. Of course, this statement was witnessed by one of Joe T's associates in a way to make it APPEAR like it was notarized...lol

jmo

It didn't "appear to be notorized", it was notorized.

Licensed attorneys in most, if not all, states can notarize signatures.

[No Nic]

"Instead of looking in the mirror and blaming themselves, the McCanns are accusing Portuguese authorities of ineptitude and indifference. Reminds me of the reprehensible Beth Holloway cast blame on the Aruban police, instead of castigating herself for sending her daughter to a poorly supervised trip to an island well known as a hedonistic paradise."

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=37772

I thought we weren't supposed to link to an opinion?? :shrug:

The author of your linked opinion has this for his *claim to fame*:

Robert Paul Reyes has written over 200 articles for
Useless-Knowledge.com.

IMO

[ortiga]

It didn't "appear to be notorized", it was notorized.

Licensed attorneys in most, if not all, states can notarize signatures.

Yeah, too bad that JQK and BHT didn't bother to get their own "statement" notorized for their first civil suit. Oh, thats right, they forgot to attach a statement at all.

IMO

[ortiga]

I thought we weren't supposed to link to an opinion?? :shrug:

The author of your linked opinion has this for his *claim to fame*:



IMO

Hurts to know that his opinion is pretty much main stream now, doesn't it. The growing comparison of the 2 cases, with both the parents of the UK girl and then Natalee's mother seeking money. At least with the McCanns we know how much it was, and what it will be spent on.....

But I don't think you can supress these opinions, we've had Patrick Hurley from Useless Knowledge posted here ad nauseum. If we can't link to opinions then I guess we'll have to stick with the NY Times reporting of the Holloway case. That is if it's fit to print.

IMO

[Mishell1383]

I believe her name is Martina and not Martinez, sorry. Yessss, I believe she had a bad experience with Joran, but fortunately SHE actually lived. Something about receiving a drink from Joran that made her lips go numb...yikes!!

You're right someone got to her before she could do anymore damage to Joran's 'good' reputation. Then there was an affidavit attached to Joe T's filings where Karin actually denies all things bad about Joran. Of course, this statement was witnessed by one of Joe T's associates in a way to make it APPEAR like it was notarized...lol

jmo

is that the same chick he forced to watch porn? I forgot her name. imo

[Grandad]

is that the same chick he forced to watch porn? I forgot her name. imo

How does someone force another person to watch porn?

Tie them up and tape their eyelids open?

[Chocoholic]

How does someone force another person to watch porn?

Tie them up and tape their eyelids open?

I would think the same way one would force a teetotaling virgin on an all-inclusive vacation to drink over-proof rum all day. Pretty much the way you describe :shrug:

[ortiga]

How does someone force another person to watch porn?

Tie them up and tape their eyelids open?

The same way Joran forced Natalee to give him the jello shot.

IMO

[Chocoholic]

The same way Joran forced Natalee to give him the jello shot.

IMO

Come here little children, I have some wonderful candy for you .....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/94/Robert_Helpmann_child_catcher_.jpg/230px-Robert_Helpmann_child_catcher_.jpg

[ortiga]

Come here little children, I have some wonderful candy for you .....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/94/Robert_Helpmann_child_catcher_.jpg/230px-Robert_Helpmann_child_catcher_.jpg

Well you know that man did spend several days around those children :rolleyes:

[Heyes]

Hurts to know that his opinion is pretty much main stream now, doesn't it. The growing comparison of the 2 cases, with both the parents of the UK girl and then Natalee's mother seeking money. At least with the McCanns we know how much it was, and what it will be spent on.....

But I don't think you can supress these opinions, we've had Patrick Hurley from Useless Knowledge posted here ad nauseum. If we can't link to opinions then I guess we'll have to stick with the NY Times reporting of the Holloway case. That is if it's fit to print.

IMO
Mainstream????
On what planet is this?
What a bunch of hooey!
Last I heard aruba and thier law enforcement is a laughingstock and...... wasn't the lead detective in portugal in a boat load of trouble and they are now following other leads?
good try though. lmao
linking opinions? lol
Nope not credible
actually looks rather desperate.

[Heyes]

I would think the same way one would force a teetotaling virgin on an all-inclusive vacation to drink over-proof rum all day. Pretty much the way you describe :shrug:

You really don't like Natalee very much do you?
strange, kinda sounds like joran, :shrug:

Blame the victim!


IMO

[Heyes]

Come here little children, I have some wonderful candy for you .....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/94/Robert_Helpmann_child_catcher_.jpg/230px-Robert_Helpmann_child_catcher_.jpg



close.. but if you remember correctly it was a drink joran handed Natalee, not candy.

So I can't decide, do you think he paid the bartender to drug her drink or did he do it himself?

IMO

[ortiga]

close.. but if you remember correctly it was a drink joran handed Natalee, not candy.

So I can't decide, do you think he paid the bartender to drug her drink or did he do it himself?

IMO

To be fair you have to consider both options....maybe she paid the bartender to drug the jello shot.

I doubt that there was any drugging at all involved, non consensual that is, and Natalee was the one named by Dompig and De Vries to have been reported to have had drugs in her possession.

Quite a spin to put the drugs in Joran's hand instead!!

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Mainstream????
On what planet is this?
What a bunch of hooey!
Last I heard aruba and thier law enforcement is a laughingstock and...... wasn't the lead detective in portugal in a boat load of trouble and they are now following other leads?
good try though. lmao
linking opinions? lol
Nope not credible
actually looks rather desperate.

Is the family writing a letter, demanding he be removed from the case?

[Chocoholic]

You really don't like Natalee very much do you?
strange, kinda sounds like joran, :shrug:

Blame the victim!


IMO

Victim? Is there a victim? According to whom?

I have no issues with Natalee, imo she is a normal teen who drank (a lot), who acted out while away from her very strict parents (daily coachings [?]) and who just let loose whilst on vacation.

IF there are victims, imo it's Joran, the Kalpoes, their families and anybody else who has been dragged through the mud, in the ever-glaring light of the US media that have tried and convicted them of a non-existent crime.

[Chocoholic]

close.. but if you remember correctly it was a drink joran handed Natalee, not candy.

So I can't decide, do you think he paid the bartender to drug her drink or did he do it himself?

IMO

Do you think that Natalee was forced to drink from dawn to dawn by her friends? Do you think that they put anything in her drink to make her bet on who she was going to get hitched up with? Was she going to use a date rape drug in order to get her wishes?

Joran had some serious tests to get through the next morning, I doubt that unsafe sex with an american drunk girl was on the top of his list his priorities.

Unlike the US, if you don't pass your tests, you can't graduate or move on to the next grade.

[Chocoholic]

To be fair you have to consider both options....maybe she paid the bartender to drug the jello shot.

I doubt that there was any drugging at all involved, non consensual that is, and Natalee was the one named by Dompig and De Vries to have been reported to have had drugs in her possession.

Quite a spin to put the drugs in Joran's hand instead!!

IMO

It's been the "family" line since day one. Joran has "done" it, no other options ever considered. Whatever theories can be spun and thrown into the mix are welcome, even if it doesn't come close to the truth.

[fairmaiden]

close.. but if you remember correctly it was a drink joran handed Natalee, not candy.

So I can't decide, do you think he paid the bartender to drug her drink or did he do it himself?

IMO

I don't remember any such thing !! Why would anyone "remember this correctly" . Again .... I know it's mundane, Heyes, but .... is there PROOF Joran "handed Natalee" a drink that had been drugged ??

Is that speculation on your part ??

When you reach the decision of whether the bartender or Joran drugged her drink .... please post substantiation.

JMO

[ortiga]

Is the family writing a letter, demanding he be removed from the case?

Maybe they won't call for a boycott of Portugal, maybe they will just ask that people not go there. :rolleyes:

IMO

[ortiga]

I don't remember any such thing !! Why would anyone "remember this correctly" . Again .... I know it's mundane, Heyes, but .... is there PROOF Joran "handed Natalee" a drink that had been drugged ??

Is that speculation on your part ??

When you reach the decision of whether the bartender or Joran drugged her drink .... please post substantiation.

JMO

I'd say that "speculation" in the case of Heyes' post is a polite way of putting it. I don't remember a published report of Joran "handing" Natalee a drink, much less any proof of Natalee being drugged, by Joran or anyone else.

When Dompig and DeVries mentioned that Natalee was reported to be in possession of drugs, that allegation was not stated to be connected to Joran in any way. And, had to be before they hooked up in the bar, IMO. Before she asked him for a ride.

IMO

[Chocoholic]

The only thing those two cases have in common is that the girls had blue eyes.

We have already been told that Natalee dyed her hair blond
Natalee drank, quite voluntarily
Natalee went after boys and even made bets to this
Natalee is considered an adult and can travel freely as such
Natalee has the verbal abilities of an adult (one would hope for a person with such high aspirations as to become a medical doctor) to say what she wants and doesn't want
Natalee even at age 18 in AL is old enough to go to war but not old enough to drink legally.

I guess those pictures we have been shown from all over the internet with bottles of booze just hold lemonade.

[Chocoholic]

I'd say that "speculation" in the case of Heyes' post is a polite way of putting it. I don't remember a published report of Joran "handing" Natalee a drink, much less any proof of Natalee being drugged, by Joran or anyone else.

When Dompig and DeVries mentioned that Natalee was reported to be in possession of drugs, that allegation was not stated to be connected to Joran in any way. And, had to be before they hooked up in the bar, IMO. Before she asked him for a ride.

IMO

LOL again it reminds me of a person I know who said he only did heroine because somebody "forced" it on him (by a woman). Show me a junkie that's willing to part with a fix........

[Mishell1383]

How does someone force another person to watch porn?

Tie them up and tape their eyelids open?
Apparently you have been hiding under a rock? imo

[Mishell1383]

Come here little children, I have some wonderful candy for you .....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/94/Robert_Helpmann_child_catcher_.jpg/230px-Robert_Helpmann_child_catcher_.jpg
ew that pic is creepy

[Mishell1383]

To be fair you have to consider both options....maybe she paid the bartender to drug the jello shot.

I doubt that there was any drugging at all involved, non consensual that is, and Natalee was the one named by Dompig and De Vries to have been reported to have had drugs in her possession.

Quite a spin to put the drugs in Joran's hand instead!!

IMO
HAhAHAHA Your not that much of a conspiracy theorist are you? Come on now Ortiga. I hear its not healthy to live your life that way. imo

[Mishell1383]

The only thing those two cases have in common is that the girls had blue eyes.

We have already been told that Natalee dyed her hair blond
Natalee drank, quite voluntarily
Natalee went after boys and even made bets to this
Natalee is considered an adult and can travel freely as such
Natalee has the verbal abilities of an adult (one would hope for a person with such high aspirations as to become a medical doctor) to say what she wants and doesn't want
Natalee even at age 18 in AL is old enough to go to war but not old enough to drink legally.

I guess those pictures we have been shown from all over the internet with bottles of booze just hold lemonade.
ok dying of the hair is totally IRRELEVANT HERE! I guess its worse to dye hair blonde than brunette? I'll have to remember that next time i reach for the bleach. Thanks for the heads up.

[Grandad]

ew that pic is creepy

So is your response to my post.

[ortiga]

ok dying of the hair is totally IRRELEVANT HERE! I guess its worse to dye hair blonde than brunette? I'll have to remember that next time i reach for the bleach. Thanks for the heads up.

The point was, I believe, that the two missing people, one a (very) young girl and one an adult woman, share nothing but having blue eyes. Even the hair color is different. The young girl was not old enough to make choices that could result in putting herself in harm's way, but the woman was.

Of course if you take a few words out of context then you can make an issue about hair coloring, but obviously that was not the point of the post, IMO.

[Mishell1383]

The point was, I believe, that the two missing people, one a (very) young girl and one an adult woman, share nothing but having blue eyes. Even the hair color is different. The young girl was not old enough to make choices that could result in putting herself in harm's way, but the woman was.

Of course if you take a few words out of context then you can make an issue about hair coloring, but obviously that was not the point of the post, IMO.
OBVIOUSLY it was not so OBVIOUS :rolleyes:

[Mishell1383]

So is your response to my post.
No need for insults pops.

ps. that doesn't even make sense

[Grandad]

No need for insults pops.

<snip>

You should follow your own advice, and perhaps try to be a little more respectful to your fellow posters.

[Mishell1383]

Don't tell me about respect. You called my post creepy, which would entail calling me creepy. So pot=kettle=black, there buddy

anywho, I'm all set with going back and forth with you on this subject, back to Natalee.

[Chocoholic]

ok dying of the hair is totally IRRELEVANT HERE! I guess its worse to dye hair blonde than brunette? I'll have to remember that next time i reach for the bleach. Thanks for the heads up.
Right so the only things they have in common is blue eyes and disappearing.

You're welcome.

[Chocoholic]

OBVIOUSLY it was not so OBVIOUS :rolleyes:

Apparently it is, Ortiga sure understood.

[Chocoholic]

Don't tell me about respect. You called my post creepy, which would entail calling me creepy. So pot=kettle=black, there buddy

anywho, I'm all set with going back and forth with you on this subject, back to Natalee.

We could go on to the subject of Natalee having had her mind set on betting she was going to have her hands on a MB guy, but (I guess he wasn't interested) she set her eyes on Joran.

I agree with Joran, if he hadn't been around another guy would have been the patsy.

[Heyes]

We could go on to the subject of Natalee having had her mind set on betting she was going to have her hands on a MB guy, but (I guess he wasn't interested) she set her eyes on Joran.

I agree with Joran, if he hadn't been around another guy would have been the patsy.

lol ,,,if joran hadn't been around, Natalee would be in college right now!
IMO

looking for your IMO, hmmm don't see it. Gotta link proving your theory? Oh wait you can't.
As you like to remind me,
IMO IMO IMO ;)

[Chocoholic]

lol ,,,if joran hadn't been around, Natalee would be in college right now!
IMO

looking for your IMO, hmmm don't see it. Gotta link proving your theory? Oh wait you can't.
As you like to remind me,
IMO IMO IMO ;)

IMO if coaching jug and buddy bht hadn't been around Natalee may well have been in college, but ...... the 8 yr full ride scholarship will have to go to somebody else. (How long does it take for a person to do pre-med? I thought it was 4 yrs not 8.) Natalee has left the building and didn't even leave a note.

I don't have a link to my theory, no more than bht has a link to her multiple theories, but that doesn't stop a multitude of people from believing her every word, even when she's proven to lie and be wrong.

:shrug:

[Heyes]

IMO if coaching jug and buddy bht hadn't been around Natalee may well have been in college, but ...... the 8 yr full ride scholarship will have to go to somebody else. (How long does it take for a person to do pre-med? I thought it was 4 yrs not 8.) Natalee has left the building and didn't even leave a note.

I don't have a link to my theory, no more than bht has a link to her multiple theories, but that doesn't stop a multitude of people from believing her every word, even when she's proven to lie and be wrong.

:shrug:


As far and joran and the kalpoes go.... Beth, ( include the ale, FBI and the dutch) have NOT been proven wrong.
Yes you do have your theories, however jorans own interviews and all we know about him and your take on him seem to contradict each other .
Go figure.
:patriot: Time for joran to pay. what is wrong with aruba. This could have been solved 2 years ago had they known what they were doing. Or had they not been corrupted by paulus and his buddies.
IMO

[Chocoholic]

As far and joran and the kalpoes go.... Beth, ( include the ale, FBI and the dutch) have NOT been proven wrong.
Yes you do have your theories, however jorans own interviews and all we know about him and your take on him seem to contradict each other .
Go figure.
:patriot: Time for joran to pay. what is wrong with aruba. This could have been solved 2 years ago had they known what they were doing. Or had they not been corrupted by paulus and his buddies.
IMO

So far bht has been proven wrong. If a crime had taken place persons of interest would be in jail. There is no such thing as bail so they would be behind bars, awaiting trial.

Considering that not only ALE, but also KLPD and the FBI worked on this case it would require the collaboration of all those law enforcement agencies to cover up a crime. Natalee isn't important enough for that. She isn't a political figure, she isn't a spy. If anybody wants the mystery to be solved it's Aruba, heck even bht isn't searching for her daughter anymore, hasn't since day 10 when she demanded her daughter's death certificate.

[Chocoholic]

Since some here harp on the Netherlands and Aruba being so corrupt I thought I'd throw in some information.

From the least corrupt at the top, to the most corrupt on the bottom, here is a short list, the rest of the list can be found in the link below. Oh lookie, the US at the bottom of this list. The Netherlands (and Aruba) not so much.

1. Finland 9.6
Iceland 9.6
New Zealand 9.6
4. Denmark 9.5
5. Singapore 9.4
6. Sweden 9.2
7. Switzerland 9.1
8. Norway 8.8
9. Australia 8.7
Netherlands 8.7
11. Austria 8.6
Luxembourg 8.6
United Kingdom 8.6
14. Canada 8.5
15. Hong Kong 8.3
16. Germany 8.0
17. Japan 7.6
18. France 7.4
Ireland 7.4
20. Belgium 7.3
Chile 7.3
USA 7.3

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781359.html

Some of the countries that have a significantly worse rating since 2005 include Brazil, Cuba, Israel, Jordan, Laos, Seychelles, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, and the United States.

[ortiga]

Since some here harp on the Netherlands and Aruba being so corrupt I thought I'd throw in some information.

From the least corrupt at the top, to the most corrupt on the bottom, here is a short list, the rest of the list can be found in the link below. Oh lookie, the US at the bottom of this list. The Netherlands (and Aruba) not so much.

1. Finland 9.6
Iceland 9.6
New Zealand 9.6
4. Denmark 9.5
5. Singapore 9.4
6. Sweden 9.2
7. Switzerland 9.1
8. Norway 8.8
9. Australia 8.7
Netherlands 8.7
11. Austria 8.6
Luxembourg 8.6
United Kingdom 8.6
14. Canada 8.5
15. Hong Kong 8.3
16. Germany 8.0
17. Japan 7.6
18. France 7.4
Ireland 7.4
20. Belgium 7.3
Chile 7.3
USA 7.3

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781359.html

Some of the countries that have a significantly worse rating since 2005 include Brazil, Cuba, Israel, Jordan, Laos, Seychelles, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, and the United States.

Tthanks for that! What an eyeopener!

And then again we now have the Canadian dollar worth more than the US dollar, the us dollar losing ground against the euro and the pound sterling...

IMO

[Chocoholic]

Tthanks for that! What an eyeopener!

And then again we now have the Canadian dollar worth more than the US dollar, the us dollar losing ground against the euro and the pound sterling...

IMO
This could be good for the US economy but the border crossing requirements and ethnic profiling doesn't encourage it.

[Mishell1383]

Apparently it is, Ortiga sure understood.
LOL eveything you post is obvious to Ortiga and vice versa, just because he/she got it, doesn't mean I did. As I am FAR from being Ortiga.

[Chocoholic]

LOL eveything you post is obvious to Ortiga and vice versa, just because he/she got it, doesn't mean I did. As I am FAR from being Ortiga.

Rather a huge assumption don't you think? You are neither me nor Ortiga and you have no clue whether s/he finds my posts "obvious" and visa versa or not.

However, it appears you're the only one that found it not so obvious.... reading from the comments.

[fairmaiden]

LOL eveything you post is obvious to Ortiga and vice versa, just because he/she got it, doesn't mean I did. As I am FAR from being Ortiga.

Mishell .... I believe if you objectively look at the messageboard, you will always see posters who are OBVIOUSLY on one side or the other, agree with each other. It's predictably true, as a matter of fact. Don't you think so ?? I look at your post as being disparaging towards ortiga AND Choco .... perhaps I'm misinterpreting it.

As a matter of fact, I'm waiting for someone to AGREE with the petition Luke posted on another thread on this board .... you know, that petition where they are calling for the Holiday Inn in Aruba to name the room Natalee stayed in during her visit, "The Natalee Holloway Memorial Room". I'm wondering if the NEXT petition will be requesting a section of a beach to be named after Natalee Holloway also.

I can't get over how ridiculous that petition is .... no matter WHAT side of the fence you're on here.

JMO

[ortiga]

LOL eveything you post is obvious to Ortiga and vice versa, just because he/she got it, doesn't mean I did. As I am FAR from being Ortiga.

Mishell, I doubt that anyone would mistake your posts for mine, if that's what you mean. :)

As for understanding the other post made by Choco, you just have to read the whole thing, treat it as a whole, and not excerpt something out of context such as the mention of hair color, which wasn't the point of the comparison between the 2 missing people, IMO.

IMO

[ortiga]

Mishell .... I believe if you objectively look at the messageboard, you will always see posters who are OBVIOUSLY on one side or the other, agree with each other. It's predictably true, as a matter of fact. Don't you think so ?? I look at your post as being disparaging towards ortiga AND Choco .... perhaps I'm misinterpreting it.

As a matter of fact, I'm waiting for someone to AGREE with the petition Luke posted on another thread on this board .... you know, that petition where they are calling for the Holiday Inn in Aruba to name the room Natalee stayed in during her visit, "The Natalee Holloway Memorial Room". I'm wondering if the NEXT petition will be requesting a section of a beach to be named after Natalee Holloway also.

I can't get over how ridiculous that petition is .... no matter WHAT side of the fence you're on here.

JMO

Hi FM, hope your Sunday is going well. That's OK, I'm used to being disparaged here!! :D

Lol, I missed the petition to name a Natalee Holloway Memorial Room...lol. I got the impression she was almost never in it! (IMO)

Will they name and save a certain seat at C&Cs for her too? Name a drink after her? I do remember the beer stein that we all commented on, that had a Natalee inscription on it that at this moment I don't recall. Maybe it was just her name. Then there was a bunch of little products like refrig magnets etc.

Oh well, I lost all hope when Beth auctioned off a signed copy of one of the call me hootie posters.

There is no limit to this stuff, and each time they push the envelope towards tackiness it justs makes the next pathetic decline into commercialism seem acceptable too.

Oops, I haven't seen the petition...hope it is not any of my fellow posters here that initiated it......:tongue:

IMO

[fairmaiden]

Hi FM, hope your Sunday is going well. That's OK, I'm used to being disparaged here!! :D

Lol, I missed the petition to name a Natalee Holloway Memorial Room...lol. I got the impression she was almost never in it! (IMO)

Will they name and save a certain seat at C&Cs for her too? Name a drink after her? I do remember the beer stein that we all commented on, that had a Natalee inscription on it that at this moment I don't recall. Maybe it was just her name. Then there was a bunch of little products like refrig magnets etc.

Oh well, I lost all hope when Beth auctioned off a signed copy of one of the call me hootie posters.

There is no limit to this stuff, and each time they push the envelope towards tackiness it justs makes the next pathetic decline into commercialism seem acceptable too.

Oops, I haven't seen the petition...hope it is not any of my fellow posters here that initiated it......:tongue:

IMO

Hi ortiga .... :seeya: ((I always have a hard time with these smilies .... they're always in a different position .... lol)). My Sunday is going well, thank you.

Regarding the petition .... not only are they demanding the Holiday Inn name the room Natalee stayed in after her .... they are saying they will not stay at a Holiday Inn if they DON'T .... lol. ((I had asked if they were only talking about the Holiday Inn in Aruba .... or if they were planning a "boycott" of ALL Holiday Inns)). It really DOES make me laugh .... I think .... OR .... it's just a little pathetic.

Yes .... the beer stein was among the candles, bracelets, dresses, refrigerator magnets, books, etc., etc., etc., which could be bought, the price of which would include a donation to SOME Fund/Foundation .... Natalee Holloway related, of course.


JMO

[Chocoholic]

<snipped for length>

Oops, I haven't seen the petition...hope it is not any of my fellow posters here that initiated it......:tongue:

IMO

I'm old, I'm no longer surprised by much anymore.

People in general are reasonably well behaved here because this board is fairly strictly moderated. Plenty of people who post here also post on far more one-sided radical boards where if you are not "pro family" you will be banned.

[Mishell1383]

Mishell .... I believe if you objectively look at the messageboard, you will always see posters who are OBVIOUSLY on one side or the other, agree with each other. It's predictably true, as a matter of fact. Don't you think so ?? I look at your post as being disparaging towards ortiga AND Choco .... perhaps I'm misinterpreting it.

As a matter of fact, I'm waiting for someone to AGREE with the petition Luke posted on another thread on this board .... you know, that petition where they are calling for the Holiday Inn in Aruba to name the room Natalee stayed in during her visit, "The Natalee Holloway Memorial Room". I'm wondering if the NEXT petition will be requesting a section of a beach to be named after Natalee Holloway also.

I can't get over how ridiculous that petition is .... no matter WHAT side of the fence you're on here.

JMO
Your absolutely correct in everything you stated here, especially misinterpreting.

Which brings me to the conclusion that this all this thread cares about is misintrepting and twisting so they can bring these posts to fit whichever way they'd like and accuse people of such.

I am not familir with the petition, so that is irrelevant here and to me FM.

I am all set once again with this thread. I wasn't posting here for a while and for one reason, and that reason keeps ringing loud and clear. And the only reason I am here to begin with is Natalee Holloway. SO take this post however you want, I don't care. I am through here.

Good day.

[Chocoholic]

I am all set once again with this thread. I wasn't posting here for a while and for one reason, and that reason keeps ringing loud and clear. And the only reason I am here to begin with is Natalee Holloway. SO take this post however you want, I don't care. I am through here.

Good day.

We are all here to discuss Natalee Holloway and her disappearance. I believe that anything else would be considered OT.

So sorry to see you go again, you were through a while ago and decided not to come back to this board. It took about a week then, hope it won't take quite as long this time. :D

See ya soon :seeya:

[terrysdoor]

Hi ortiga .... :seeya: ((I always have a hard time with these smilies .... they're always in a different position .... lol)). My Sunday is going well, thank you.

Regarding the petition .... not only are they demanding the Holiday Inn name the room Natalee stayed in after her .... they are saying they will not stay at a Holiday Inn if they DON'T .... lol. ((I had asked if they were only talking about the Holiday Inn in Aruba .... or if they were planning a "boycott" of ALL Holiday Inns)). It really DOES make me laugh .... I think .... OR .... it's just a little pathetic.

Yes .... the beer stein was among the candles, bracelets, dresses, refrigerator magnets, books, etc., etc., etc., which could be bought, the price of which would include a donation to SOME Fund/Foundation .... Natalee Holloway related, of course.


JMO

Good morning all........ "catching up" i just can`t understand all the products that have been put out there to raise money is anybody searching for Natalee? IMO touring around selling a book claiming it is the "truth" about a crime is doing nothing to help find answers to what happened to Natalee IMO all this stuff is in very poor taste and to think naming a hotel room after someone yeah IMO poor taste

[Chocoholic]

Good morning all........ "catching up" i just can`t understand all the products that have been put out there to raise money is anybody searching for Natalee? IMO touring around selling a book claiming it is the "truth" about a crime is doing nothing to help find answers to what happened to Natalee IMO all this stuff is in very poor taste and to think naming a hotel room after someone yeah IMO poor taste

There are a few people that may claim that bht and her hangers-on have class, I'm not one of them.

[terrysdoor]

There are a few people that may claim that bht and her hangers-on have class, I'm not one of them.

Hi choco....... when i first heard Beth on the today show just a few days after Natalee went missing i thought how odd that a mother was establishing Natalee`s character instead of making a plea to anyone that may have been in Aruba that night that may have been on the beach i found that odd and as the spin went on well i just don`t know what to think some people may think this is Beth bashing but her actions have been quite different IMO from most greiving mothers

[fairmaiden]

LOL eveything you post is obvious to Ortiga and vice versa, just because he/she got it, doesn't mean I did. As I am FAR from being Ortiga.

Your absolutely correct in everything you stated here, especially misinterpreting.

Which brings me to the conclusion that this all this thread cares about is misintrepting and twisting so they can bring these posts to fit whichever way they'd like and accuse people of such.

I am not familir with the petition, so that is irrelevant here and to me FM.

I am all set once again with this thread. I wasn't posting here for a while and for one reason, and that reason keeps ringing loud and clear. And the only reason I am here to begin with is Natalee Holloway. SO take this post however you want, I don't care. I am through here.

Good day.

Well, I certainly apologize if the post I quoted wasn't meant to be a disparaging comment.

I certainly agree with you as to the twisting of posts. "Spinning" happens all the time, unfortunately.

JMO

[terrysdoor]

has anyone heard if Beth will be doing the talk shows Nancy,Greta and all promoting her book? IMO

[Chocoholic]

I haven't heard, but I believe I read that Dave and bht's books are already a two-fer at $15.00 Still overpriced for a stack of lies. Time to hug a tree and not waste paper.

imo

[ortiga]

I haven't heard, but I believe I read that Dave and bht's books are already a two-fer at $15.00 Still overpriced for a stack of lies. Time to hug a tree and not waste paper.

imo

lol I'd like to see Dave try to get his half.

[Luke Davis]

has anyone heard if Beth will be doing the talk shows Nancy,Greta and all promoting her book? IMOI'm guessing she will, same as Dave with his book. But in the case of book tours, authors often do many local shows, radio interviews or tv news.

[ortiga]

I'm guessing she will, same as Dave with his book. But in the case of book tours, authors often do many local shows, radio interviews or tv news.


All she REALLY needs is Oprah.

There is a **rumor** going around that the book is dedicated to Scared Monkeys, and a couple of other pro-Beth blogs. Dedicated or at least mentioned in a foreword. Dang it, I still haven't got down to walmarts.

IMO

[Heyes]

So far bht has been proven wrong. If a crime had taken place persons of interest would be in jail. There is no such thing as bail so they would be behind bars, awaiting trial.

Considering that not only ALE, but also KLPD and the FBI worked on this case it would require the collaboration of all those law enforcement agencies to cover up a crime. Natalee isn't important enough for that. She isn't a political figure, she isn't a spy. If anybody wants the mystery to be solved it's Aruba, heck even bht isn't searching for her daughter anymore, hasn't since day 10 when she demanded her daughter's death certificate.

That's not proof! This is aruba we are talking about lol lol
Now if Beth hadn't of arrived and the media didn't show, your right but it would have been two innocent security guards behind bars

you only needed a few people to derail the investigation. Only a few.
It started with jorans lies, paulus and anita's attempt at obstruction and a couple of paulus's buddies. That's all.
IMO

[Chocoholic]

That's not proof! This is aruba we are talking about lol lol
Now if Beth hadn't of [sic] arrived and the media didn't show, your right but it would have been two innocent security guards behind bars

you only needed a few people to derail the investigation. Only a few.
It started with jorans lies, paulus and anita's attempt at obstruction and a couple of paulus's buddies. That's all.
IMO
If bht wouldn't have arrived, perhaps ALE could have done it's job without interference. You appear to forget that one of the security guards hasn't been cleared as a suspect by the courts. Paul has been and Anita never was.

So why did bht never go back to Aruba when she vowed she wouldn't leave her baby behind even if she had to buy a house? N/m it wouldn't be the first or last time that she lied.

[ortiga]

So why did bht never go back to Aruba when she vowed she wouldn't leave her baby behind even if she had to buy a house? N/m it wouldn't be the first or last time that she lied.

IMO she was a liar long before we ever heard of her, was definitely a liar throughout the case (ref: public statements of Beth and Dave thread on this board) and will continue to be a liar after this case is long forgotten.

I wonder if the 90 minute harassment of the suspect, Deepak, by the grieving mother at his place of employment was considered obstruction of justice.

IMO

[terrysdoor]

IMO she was a liar long before we ever heard of her, was definitely a liar throughout the case (ref: public statements of Beth and Dave thread on this board) and will continue to be a liar after this case is long forgotten.

I wonder if the 90 minute harassment of the suspect, Deepak, by the grieving mother at his place of employment was considered obstruction of justice.

IMO

i had forgot about that i bet there is a chapter on that in the book IMO

[Chocoholic]

IMO she was a liar long before we ever heard of her, was definitely a liar throughout the case (ref: public statements of Beth and Dave thread on this board) and will continue to be a liar after this case is long forgotten.

I wonder if the 90 minute harassment of the suspect, Deepak, by the grieving mother at his place of employment was considered obstruction of justice.

IMO

Where I live it's called stalking.

[ortiga]

There have apparently been some major detainments in Aruba, does anyone have the article translated into English yet? The bust seems to have nothing to do with the Holloway disappearance, but this may be what the Dutch investigators were in Aruba for in the first place?

IMO

[terrysdoor]

well i broke down went to my local Walmart and bought Beth`s book i am on page 81 the only new thing i have learned is that when Beth went to make her statement to Dennis Jacobs she saw Deepak`s car in the back of the police station so this tells me they were questioned the day after Beth arrived in Aruba this is when she saw Joran`s statement torn up on Dennis`s desk per Beth in her book this is what i read

[Luke Davis]

well i broke down went to my local Walmart and bought Beth`s book i am on page 81 the only new thing i have learned is that when Beth went to make her statement to Dennis Jacobs she saw Deepak`s car in the back of the police station so this tells me they were questioned the day after Beth arrived in Aruba this is when she saw Joran`s statement torn up on Dennis`s desk per Beth in her book this is what i read

Hey, many thanks. That's the first comment I have seen by an actual reader. http://sheknows.com/graphics/emoticons/shocked.gif

[ortiga]

well i broke down went to my local Walmart and bought Beth`s book i am on page 81 the only new thing i have learned is that when Beth went to make her statement to Dennis Jacobs she saw Deepak`s car in the back of the police station so this tells me they were questioned the day after Beth arrived in Aruba this is when she saw Joran`s statement torn up on Dennis`s desk per Beth in her book this is what i read


Thanks Terry. But she said all along that she had a copy of the statement wherein Joran supposedly said he took Natalee to his house at 1:40 am and had sex with her. She said that on Geraldo IIRC. And on Abrams once or more than once. Is that the statement she supposedly saw torn up on the desk? Is she claiming she got to read the pieces?

The same site that released the information (quietly) that Robin and Dave had "called off" the boycott also apparently has a thread where Dave and Robin have been answering questions fielded to them from their readers. Within the last few days they apparently have said that there never was a statement wherein any of the boys said they had intercourse with Natalee. Unfortuntately they didn't bother to say that while Beth was on her rampages accusing the boys of gangrape and taking Natalee's life.

I'll include an IMO because I don't read at that site but have see the quotes elsewhere.

Also, is it true in the book that Beth is relating her conversation with the SOS and Beth tells her that Aruba is moneylaundering for the north Koreans, or supplying money for their nuclear program? Maybe you could tell us if this is true that she said that in her conversation with Rice.

Thanks for any reports on the book.

IMO

Terry does she mention faith and hope and loving Natalee?

[Chocoholic]

There have apparently been some major detainments in Aruba, does anyone have the article translated into English yet? The bust seems to have nothing to do with the Holloway disappearance, but this may be what the Dutch investigators were in Aruba for in the first place?

IMO

International criminal organization rolled up on Aruba

25 September 2007 06:32

Oranjestad – On aruba during a large scale police action an international criminal organization involved with drugs has been rolled. During this action eight persons have been held in detention who are allegedly involved with blackmail, money laundering, the import and export of cocaine and heroine. Furthermore six illegal immigrants have been detained.

More than 120 police officers searched more than 10 homes, one of which was an attorney's office. Also the home of an offspring of previously charged Aruban Mansur family was searched. At one of the home searches of the suspects, the suspect fired shots from a firearm. Nobody was injured.

As the size of the search action which was on the books as “possible danger of firearms”, assistance was asked for from the Curacoan arrest team. Financial and digital (computer?) experts came from the Netherlands and police dogs specialized in finding drugs from the Corp's country police teams.

Investigation

During the searches an unknown number of weapons, money and drugs were confiscated. Several cars were also taken into police possession. The action is the result of a longer lasting investigation of the RST on Aruba (RST Reserche (Investigative Cooperation Team)

http://www.nu.nl/news/1248053/20/Internationale_criminele_organisatie_opgerold_op_A ruba.html

[Chocoholic]

Also, is it true in the book that Beth is relating her conversation with the SOS and Beth tells her that Aruba is moneylaundering for the north Koreans, or supplying money for their nuclear program?

120 cops for a country the size of Aruba with approx 100,000 residents, is quite the operation.

Poor Jossy must be on his way to another heart attack, another nephew/niece caught with illegal activities. Tsk tsk, bht coulda just told us it was her very good friend Jossy and his family who are busy with the money laundering. LOL

IMO.

[ortiga]

International criminal organization rolled up on Aruba

25 September 2007 06:32

Oranjestad – On aruba during a large scale police action an international criminal organization involved with drugs has been rolled. During this action eight persons have been held in detention who are allegedly involved with blackmail, money laundering, the import and export of cocaine and heroine. Furthermore six illegal immigrants have been detained.

More than 120 police officers searched more than 10 homes, one of which was an attorney's office. Also the home of an offspring of previously charged Aruban Mansur family was searched. At one of the home searches of the suspects, the suspect fired shots from a firearm. Nobody was injured.

As the size of the search action which was on the books as “possible danger of firearms”, assistance was asked for from the Curacoan arrest team. Financial and digital (computer?) experts came from the Netherlands and police dogs specialized in finding drugs from the Corp's country police teams.

Investigation

During the searches an unknown number of weapons, money and drugs were confiscated. Several cars were also taken into police possession. The action is the result of a longer lasting investigation of the RST on Aruba (RST Reserche (Investigative Cooperation Team)

http://www.nu.nl/news/1248053/20/Internationale_criminele_organisatie_opgerold_op_A ruba.html

thanks Choco. I just wonder if that isn't why the Dutch were there anyway.

[Chocoholic]

thanks Choco. I just wonder if that isn't why the Dutch were there anyway.

It could be, it's not impossible to work on 2 cases at the same time and the Dutch are thriftier than the Scots, they're rather send a team out once instead of twice.

[terrysdoor]

Good morning everybody........ i finished the book nothing much at all no gang rape or murder talk

yes Ortiga she did say in the book she told the SOS all that stuff she said she talked as fast as she could because she only had 20 min with her she said there were two body guards in the room and the SOS only spoke one time and all she said was i want the FBI back on this to the guards

[ortiga]

Good morning everybody........ i finished the book nothing much at all no gang rape or murder talk

yes Ortiga she did say in the book she told the SOS all that stuff she said she talked as fast as she could because she only had 20 min with her she said there were two body guards in the room and the SOS only spoke one time and all she said was i want the FBI back on this to the guards

Thanks Terry. But she still did claim it was a kidnapping, and that she knew the truth of what happened?

She was scheduled for Larry King Live for Oct 3, as recently as yesterday. But today she is not scheduled any more for Oct 3. Dorothy Hamill is still scheduled but they took Beth off.

I wonder if he had second thoughts because he wouldn't be able to control what she said.

IMO

[terrysdoor]

Thanks Terry. But she still did claim it was a kidnapping, and that she knew the truth of what happened?

She was scheduled for Larry King Live for Oct 3, as recently as yesterday. But today she is not scheduled any more for Oct 3. Dorothy Hamill is still scheduled but they took Beth off.

I wonder if he had second thoughts because he wouldn't be able to control what she said.

IMO

yes she said Natalee had been kidnapped and that the three boys and Paulus knew what happened she only mentioned the other suspects one time and not by name just number

[ortiga]

It could be, it's not impossible to work on 2 cases at the same time and the Dutch are thriftier than the Scots, they're rather send a team out once instead of twice.

lol I see that Scared Monkeys is not reporting anything about the huge bust......when they normally report everything they can that is a problem in Aruba. I guess a raid of 120 polis with multiple arrestees was not big enough for them.

Also I see that on Dana Pretzer tonight the topics are Paris Hilton and the DUI of Keifer Sutherland. :rolleyes:

IMO

[ortiga]

yes she said Natalee had been kidnapped and that the three boys and Paulus knew what happened she only mentioned the other suspects one time and not by name just number

If she said as a fact, that the 3 boys and Paulus know what happened, and that it was a kidnapping, that was probably enough to keep her off of LKL. That, plus accusing Aruba of participating in illegal acts with north Korea.

I can just see Larry.....Beth, we have a question from a viewer....where is your proof of the 3 boys' participation in a kidnapping?

And, Beth, what is this that you told the SOS about Aruba and N Korea?

IMO

[fairmaiden]

Good morning everybody........ i finished the book nothing much at all no gang rape or murder talk

yes Ortiga she did say in the book she told the SOS all that stuff she said she talked as fast as she could because she only had 20 min with her she said there were two body guards in the room and the SOS only spoke one time and all she said was i want the FBI back on this to the guards

Good morning, terry ....

WOW .... you read that fast !!! Does she reveal the "TRUTH behind the Kidnapping in Aruba"?? I have drawn a complete blank .... SOS ????

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Oooooooooooooops .... Secretary Of State .... ;) I KNEW that lolol.

[fairmaiden]

If she said as a fact, that the 3 boys and Paulus know what happened, and that it was a kidnapping, that was probably enough to keep her off of LKL. That, plus accusing Aruba of participating in illegal acts with north Korea.

I can just see Larry.....Beth, we have a question from a viewer....where is your proof of the 3 boys' participation in a kidnapping?

And, Beth, what is this that you told the SOS about Aruba and N Korea?

IMO

Morning ortiga ....

Well it seems, despite Beth's statement about giving the TRUTH about the kidnapping in Aruba .... there is nothing more than we have heard for the past TWO YEARS PLUS !! Of course, I can't say I'm surprised .... if she knew the TRUTH, this whole fiasco could have been settled LONG ago.

JMO

[Heyes]

If bht wouldn't have arrived, perhaps ALE could have done it's job without interference. You appear to forget that one of the security guards hasn't been cleared as a suspect by the courts. Paul has been and Anita never was.

So why did bht never go back to Aruba when she vowed she wouldn't leave her baby behind even if she had to buy a house? N/m it wouldn't be the first or last time that she lied.

The world watched and knows what happened with the ale and the security guards. Their plan didn't work out because of Beth and the media. I'm sure the SG's are very thankful for her arrival. It was all a lie. Who Lied? Oh easy, that would be the suspects, joran satish and deepak. No matter how some try to rewrite history, that fact will never change.
No one with half a brain would go back to aruba after what this family has been through. No one! It's obvious to Beth and to most that Natalee is no longer findable. The threats, the run around. Heck look at the other case in the news. when they couldn't figure out how to run a investigation, who did they start to blame? Yup the mother. Aruba has tried to do the same. This mother wasn't even on aruba yet when the bungling ale and those close to paulus got their mits involved, it was blame the victim and blame the mother time. Sick, but true! IMO
Dave is a good man. Many, many of us however will never set foot on that island. We continue to sway others not to go.
So there was a island wide drug bust and you guys think that's why the dutch were on the island? Since they went and searched the vds's house does that mean he is neck deep in the drug case? I wouldn't doubt it!
Looking forward to reading Beths book, I obviously can't take seriously the take on it here. at least by those who hate this poor woman and are the suspects supporters. IMO

[terrysdoor]

Good morning, terry ....

WOW .... you read that fast !!! Does she reveal the "TRUTH behind the Kidnapping in Aruba"?? I have drawn a complete blank .... SOS ????

JMO

Hello fair ........ it was easy to read Beth did go into more detail about her and Greta going to the Van der sloots`s house how she described what was in Joran`s statement the things he did to Natalee in Deepak`s car and she also goes into more detail about when she got the call

[fairmaiden]

<<snip>>
Looking forward to reading Beths book, I obviously can't take seriously the take on it here. at least by those who hate this poor woman and are the suspects supporters. IMO

Heyes .... I certainly don't think terrysdoor "HATES" Beth, or even "supports the suspects". She has read the book. The ONLY one, that I know of. It seems Beth has proffered NOTHING which even REMOTELY resembles the TRUTH about this "kidnapping". This is what her book claims to do !!

Do YOU really think Beth knows the TRUTH ?? We ((all of us)) have certainly been wasting our time IF Beth knows the TRUTH . Wouldn't you agree ?? If Beth knows the TRUTH, why are we waiting for a book to be published in the FIRST place ??

JMO

[ortiga]

The world watched and knows what happened with the ale and the security guards. Their plan didn't work out because of Beth and the media. I'm sure the SG's are very thankful for her arrival. It was all a lie. Who Lied? Oh easy, that would be the suspects, joran satish and deepak. No matter how some try to rewrite history, that fact will never change.
No one with half a brain would go back to aruba after what this family has been through. No one! It's obvious to Beth and to most that Natalee is no longer findable. The threats, the run around. Heck look at the other case in the news. when they couldn't figure out how to run a investigation, who did they start to blame? Yup the mother. Aruba has tried to do the same. This mother wasn't even on aruba yet when the bungling ale and those close to paulus got their mits involved, it was blame the victim and blame the mother time. Sick, but true! IMO
Dave is a good man. Many, many of us however will never set foot on that island. We continue to sway others not to go.
So there was a island wide drug bust and you guys think that's why the dutch were on the island? Since they went and searched the vds's house does that mean he is neck deep in the drug case? I wouldn't doubt it!
Looking forward to reading Beths book, I obviously can't take seriously the take on it here. at least by those who hate this poor woman and are the suspects supporters. IMO

I wonder why SM is not reporting the huge bust in Aruba? Because it possibly involves a relative of Jossy? Maybe if they report it then Jossy will not pass on rumors to them anymore?

I don't have to even read Beth's book to have a take on it. The subtitle is an outright lie by a proven liar, IMO. No rocket science needed there. There is no kidnap ever proven to have occurred, after more than 2 years we have seen nothing to indicate that she was kidnapped. And we have seen many things to indicate that she was not kidnapped, that the date was of her own choice. IMO

But it's interesting that Beth apparently is no longer saying "the only thing we know for sure is that Natalee was gangraped by JK2 on the Island of Aruba, we just don't know what they did with her when they were through with her". She kinda wore that one out. I wonder why she cut off that little tidbit and retreated to kidnapping? Don't you think that readers of her book would like to see the proof of her events, fundraisers, and appearances on TV wherein she made that charge of gang-rape? Don't you think the world is due an explanation of her proof? Was it just to get money that she claimed gangrape? I know that I, at least, am still waiting to see her copy of the statement wherein she claims that Joran said he had sex with Natalee at 1:40 am in his house. She claimed that over and over.

Interesting relevations on the site, BFN, that is communicating with Robin. IMO

1) as we learned earlier, Robin and Dave have quietly called off the boycott, we have discussed that here many times.

2) Robin reportedly says that they were never told that JK2 admitted to sex with Natalee at any time, other than Joran's petting with her. paraphrased, available word for word on BFN, RU, etc.

3) Robin says that Dave was told about Natalee's body being found by Carla. And that the story was then retracted by Carla. Until now, we have been told over and over on this thread that ALE told Dave that.

Well, lots of news this week. I will qualify the above 3 to *rumor*, since we aren't supposed to link to that site or RU.

The other newsworthy item is that Beth was scheduled to appear on LKL on 3 October, and suddenly, today, she is no longer scheduled for October 3. Why do you think that has happened?

IMO

[fairmaiden]

Hello fair ........ it was easy to read Beth did go into more detail about her and Greta going to the Van der sloots`s house how she described what was in Joran`s statement the things he did to Natalee in Deepak`s car and she also goes into more detail about when she got the call

When she got the call ?? You're talking about the initial call that Natalee was missing ?? How much detail did she give about that ??

JMO

[terrysdoor]

Heyes .... I certainly don't think terrysdoor "HATES" Beth, or even "supports the suspects". She has read the book. The ONLY one, that I know of. It seems Beth has proffered NOTHING which even REMOTELY resembles the TRUTH about this "kidnapping". This is what her book claims to do !!

Do YOU really think Beth knows the TRUTH ?? We ((all of us)) have certainly been wasting our time IF Beth knows the TRUTH . Wouldn't you agree ?? If Beth knows the TRUTH, why are we waiting for a book to be published in the FIRST place ??

JMO

Thank you fair i do not hate Beth nor do i support the suspects i read the book out of pure curiosity i would love to know the truth but i still don`t know much more than before i read the book IMO

[terrysdoor]

When she got the call ?? You're talking about the initial call that Natalee was missing ?? How much detail did she give about that ??

JMO

well for me fair she cleared up a few things she and two of her friends went to Hot Springs to her family cabin and she meet her family there her two friends stayed in a hotel at night and during the day they shopped she did say she got the call on the way home it came on her cell and she was told that Natalee missed her flight she knew right away something was wrong she did take control and drive 120 miles an hour she did say she got pulled over and told the officier to call the FBI her daughter had been kidnapped in Aruba he just told her to slow down so she she went 85 the rest of the way but during the ride they were all on there cell phones making calls Matt provided the numbers they needed

[fairmaiden]

Thank you fair i do not hate Beth nor do i support the suspects i read the book out of pure curiosity i would love to know the truth but i still don`t know much more than before i read the book IMO

You're welcome, terry. It's unfortunate that word "hate" gets tossed around so much.

By the way, I don't know how much you paid for the book .... but it must be a bit unsatisfying to spend ANY amount of money, only to find out what you've known for the past 2 years essentially.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

well for me fair she cleared up a few things she and two of her friends went to Hot Springs to her family cabin and she meet her family there her two friends stayed in a hotel at night and during the day they shopped she did say she got the call on the way home it came on her cell and she was told that Natalee missed her flight she knew right away something was wrong she did take control and drive 120 miles an hour she did say she got pulled over and told the officier to call the FBI her daughter had been kidnapped in Aruba he just told her to slow down so she she went 85 the rest of the way but during the ride they were all on there cell phones making calls Matt provided the numbers they needed

Thanks terry ....

[ortiga]

Hello fair ........ it was easy to read Beth did go into more detail about her and Greta going to the Van der sloots`s house how she described what was in Joran`s statement the things he did to Natalee in Deepak`s car and she also goes into more detail about when she got the call


"the things he did to Natalee in Deepak's car"?

She has some proof that it was not consensual?

[fairmaiden]

<<snip>>
But it's interesting that Beth apparently is no longer saying "the only thing we know for sure is that Natalee was gangraped by JK2 on the Island of Aruba, we just don't know what they did with her when they were through with her". She kinda wore that one out. I wonder why she cut off that little tidbit and retreated to kidnapping? Don't you think that readers of her book would like to see the proof of her events, fundraisers, and appearances on TV wherein she made that charge of gang-rape? Don't you think the world is due an explanation of her proof? Was it just to get money that she claimed gangrape? I know that I, at least, am still waiting to see her copy of the statement wherein she claims that Joran said he had sex with Natalee at 1:40 am in his house. She claimed that over and over.

IMO

ortiga .... You know, I absolutely agree with you about this. I believe the fact "Natalee's Story" has been told .... IS "money-driven". "Natalee's Story" was presented during her ISTF travels .... with not a SHRED of proof. Donations kept pouring in No one has been accountable for how that money was spent, that I know of anyway.

NOW .... she comes out with a book proclaiming to be the TRUTH. The "TRUTH about the Kidnapping in Aruba" .... at the least it's dishonest .... and the worst, it's a plan to get MORE money.

Just My Opinion

[terrysdoor]

You're welcome, terry. It's unfortunate that word "hate" gets tossed around so much.

By the way, I don't know how much you paid for the book .... but it must be a bit unsatisfying to spend ANY amount of money, only to find out what you've known for the past 2 years essentially.

JMO

i am some what disappointed my hair dresser is reading it now and my sister said since i bought it she wants to read it lol Beth did reveal some personal info like she and Jug were already having problems and that when she called him after she got the call and told him she was going to Aruba he did not want her to go

[terrysdoor]

"the things he did to Natalee in Deepak's car"?

She has some proof that it was not consensual?

honestly ortiga IMO she simply discribed a make out session between two teenagers IMO

[ortiga]

honestly ortiga IMO she simply discribed a make out session between two teenagers IMO

Terry thanks. Did she ever really say that Natalee was kidnapped, and if so, how that was proven? Did she say that JK2 drugged Natalee?

I wonder what the purpose of describing the make out session was. If it were me, that's about the last thing I'd want my mother to describe in a book.

[terrysdoor]

Terry thanks. Did she ever really say that Natalee was kidnapped, and if so, how that was proven? Did she say that JK2 drugged Natalee?

I wonder what the purpose of describing the make out session was. If it were me, that's about the last thing I'd want my mother to describe in a book.

she says that she knows Natalee was kidnapped or held against her will because Natalee would never do these things and somebody must have drugged her Beth also admits how out of control she became and that a close friend confronted her about some things and they went on a faith retreat in Mexico she also says Matt went to Puerto Rico for his senoir trip

[ortiga]

she says that she knows Natalee was kidnapped or held against her will because Natalee would never do these things and somebody must have drugged her Beth also admits how out of control she became and that a close friend confronted her about some things and they went on a faith retreat in Mexico she also says Matt went to Puerto Rico for his senoir trip


How out of control Beth herself became? And then a friend and her went on a faith retreat to Mexico?

On other boards they are saying that she repeats the story about Paulus saying he picked "them" up at 4 am, remember the confusion between 11 in Dutch and 4 in English? Reports are she is claiming that she heard that, but she was in the car, no?

[terrysdoor]

How out of control Beth herself became? And then a friend and her went on a faith retreat to Mexico?

On other boards they are saying that she repeats the story about Paulus saying he picked "them" up at 4 am, remember the confusion between 11 in Dutch and 4 in English? Reports are she is claiming that she heard that, but she was in the car, no?

yes she said she was out of control and would sometimes throw things and say ugly words and yes they went on a retreat in Mexico IIRC she said she heard that but she was in the car

[ortiga]

yes she said she was out of control and would sometimes throw things and say ugly words and yes they went on a retreat in Mexico IIRC she said she heard that but she was in the car

It would be interesting to see if that visit to the retreat happened before she said they "took her life", and the rest of her gang rape speil that extended well into 2006. Those were the ugliest of words.

IMO

[terrysdoor]

It would be interesting to see if that visit to the retreat happened before she said they "took her life", and the rest of her gang rape speil that extended well into 2006. Those were the ugliest of words.

IMO

the way the chapters went i believe IMO this was after she said all those things and soon after the Abrams report where Dompig kind of called her a liar,the start of the book was the day she packed Natalee`s room up to move from Jug`s house