OMG!! Boy Forced Into Sex With Mom

[Jadedblueeyes]

http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/20070706/D8Q7CQ580.html

Teenage gang terrorizes mother and son.:mad:

[Helping Hand]

Police: Boy Forced Into Sex With Mom

BY BRIAN SKOLOFF
Associated Press Writer
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla.
Two teenagers were accused of gang raping a woman and forcing her 12-year-old son to join in the attack, then beating him and pouring cleaning solution into his eyes.

Authorities allege Avion Lawson, 14, and Nathan Walker, 16, were among a group of about 10 masked suspects who forced their way into the woman's apartment in a crime-ridden housing project the night of June 18.

The two were being held without bail Friday on suspicion of armed sexual battery by multiple perpetrators, sexual performance by a child, armed home invasion and aggravated battery. Both were arrested this week, but formal charges had not been filed. Authorities said the two would be charged as adults.

"Any rape case is horrible but this takes it to another level, something you can't think of even in your worst dreams," police spokesman Ted White said.

According to the police report, a man knocked on the woman's door at about 9 p.m. and told her he had a flat tire. The mother and son, whom police have not identified, went outside and were ambushed by a group of gun-wielding suspects.

The victims told police they were forced back into their home and beaten and sexually assaulted. According to authorities, the men raped, sodomized and beat the woman, then forced her son to participate in the assault at gunpoint, making him have sex with his mother in front of them.

The boy was then beaten and had numerous household cleaning liquids poured into his eyes, according to the police report.

The suspects also stole a few hundred dollars worth of cash and jewelry, White said.

White said more arrests were expected, but he would not say whether authorities had identified additional suspects. The teens in custody were not cooperating, but Lawson confessed to taking part in the attack, White said. Walker has denied involvement, White said.

DNA evidence in a condom found in the victims' home linked Lawson to the crime, police said. Investigators also say they found a palm print belonging to Walker at the scene.

The victims did not suffer life-threatening injuries and have been released from the hospital, White said.

"They're going through the county victim services for counseling," he said.

Lawson lived in Dunbar Village, the hardscrabble project where the attack occurred. Walker was apparently visiting a friend there, White said.

Authorities believe the suspects all knew each other from the neighborhood, but they don't think they knew the victims directly.

Prosecutors have 21 days from the time a suspect is arrested to formally file charges. Lawson was arrested Tuesday. Walker was arrested Thursday.

Walker made a first court appearance on Friday, after which his father, also named Nathan Walker, spoke briefly.

"My son has a good heart," the elder Walker said outside court. "I can't believe my son would do something like this. I don't teach my son violence so I don't understand."

Walker's attorney, Robert Gershman, said Friday he intended to enter a not guilty plea on behalf of his client once charges are formally filed. He would not comment further.

A telephone message left at the office of Lawson's public defender was not immediately returned.

[Watership Down]

That mother and son are going to have a long road to recovery. To be raped is horrific enough but to force a child to participate in the rape of his own mother is going to have repercussions on both for the rest of their lives.

I hope that everyone involved are caught and face the stiffest penalties possible. And I hope there are NO plea deals offered to any of the participants.

[HiLife]

The "DEPRAVITY Bar" just keeps getting lower and lower, doesn't it? Just when you think you've heard the worst, there are new lows being set daily.

Besides the obvious, one of the horrors of this story are the ages of the perpetrators. Young teenagers. It horrifies me to think they have such sickening thoughts in their heads, as to what to do with other human beings.

Daily, people and lives are being destroyed by twisted minds. It angers me that the "punishments" aren't enough to deter this tragedy. Swift, hard consequences need to be implemented to begin addressing the level of these LOW crimes.

jmo

[JustMyOpinion]

The "DEPRAVITY Bar" just keeps getting lower and lower, doesn't it? Just when you think you've heard the worst, there are new lows being set daily.

Besides the obvious, one of the horrors of this story are the ages of the perpetrators. Young teenagers. It horrifies me to think they have such sickening thoughts in their heads, as to what to do with other human beings.

Daily, people and lives are being destroyed by twisted minds. It angers me that the "punishments" aren't enough to deter this tragedy. Swift, hard consequences need to be implemented to begin addressing the level of these LOW crimes.

jmo

Does anyone know if the suspects have been arraigned? If so, what are the charges? How old are these teen suspects? Florida CAN try them as adults under their law.. IIRC.

[Watership Down]

Does anyone know if the suspects have been arraigned? If so, what are the charges? How old are these teen suspects? Florida CAN try them as adults under their law.. IIRC.



According to the article there have been no formal charges yet.


"The two were being held without bail Friday on suspicion of armed sexual battery by multiple perpetrators, sexual performance by a child, armed home invasion and aggravated battery. Both were arrested this week, but formal charges had not been filed. Authorities said the two would be charged as adults."

[Watership Down]

I also wonder about the ages of offenders. If tried as juveniles the punishment will not be sufficient in the face of the offense. Moreover, in order to do something like this are these "teenagers" merely future criminals? DO they simply represent a menace to society without any benefit?
David's article pointed to the fact that mother and son walked over a mile to get to the hospital. They are poor living in the projects and will need help. Without serious intervention is this young boy likely to lash out and end up in the CJS himself? I am left with questions.


Hopefully the police and DA in this case will get this family the help they need. I know the answer is always that the money isn't there for it but money can be found.

[julianella]

Police: Boy Forced Into Sex With Mom

BY BRIAN SKOLOFF
Associated Press Writer
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla.
Two teenagers were accused of gang raping a woman and forcing her 12-year-old son to join in the attack, then beating him and pouring cleaning solution into his eyes.

Authorities allege Avion Lawson, 14, and Nathan Walker, 16, were among a group of about 10 masked suspects who forced their way into the woman's apartment in a crime-ridden housing project the night of June 18.

The two were being held without bail Friday on suspicion of armed sexual battery by multiple perpetrators, sexual performance by a child, armed home invasion and aggravated battery. Both were arrested this week, but formal charges had not been filed. Authorities said the two would be charged as adults.

"Any rape case is horrible but this takes it to another level, something you can't think of even in your worst dreams," police spokesman Ted White said.

According to the police report, a man knocked on the woman's door at about 9 p.m. and told her he had a flat tire. The mother and son, whom police have not identified, went outside and were ambushed by a group of gun-wielding suspects.

The victims told police they were forced back into their home and beaten and sexually assaulted. According to authorities, the men raped, sodomized and beat the woman, then forced her son to participate in the assault at gunpoint, making him have sex with his mother in front of them.

The boy was then beaten and had numerous household cleaning liquids poured into his eyes, according to the police report.

The suspects also stole a few hundred dollars worth of cash and jewelry, White said.

White said more arrests were expected, but he would not say whether authorities had identified additional suspects. The teens in custody were not cooperating, but Lawson confessed to taking part in the attack, White said. Walker has denied involvement, White said.

DNA evidence in a condom found in the victims' home linked Lawson to the crime, police said. Investigators also say they found a palm print belonging to Walker at the scene.

The victims did not suffer life-threatening injuries and have been released from the hospital, White said.

"They're going through the county victim services for counseling," he said.

Lawson lived in Dunbar Village, the hardscrabble project where the attack occurred. Walker was apparently visiting a friend there, White said.

Authorities believe the suspects all knew each other from the neighborhood, but they don't think they knew the victims directly.

Prosecutors have 21 days from the time a suspect is arrested to formally file charges. Lawson was arrested Tuesday. Walker was arrested Thursday.

Walker made a first court appearance on Friday, after which his father, also named Nathan Walker, spoke briefly.

"My son has a good heart," the elder Walker said outside court. "I can't believe my son would do something like this. I don't teach my son violence so I don't understand."

Walker's attorney, Robert Gershman, said Friday he intended to enter a not guilty plea on behalf of his client once charges are formally filed. He would not comment further.

A telephone message left at the office of Lawson's public defender was not immediately returned.

This is one of the saddest and disgusting stories I have heard in a while! What in the heck do people think nowadays? Do they think at all? Oh my! I am truly at a loss for words. This mother and son I can't imagine how one copes with this. And the perps! I say eye for an eye! I hope they get their Karma! What in the world...

:rose: To the mother and son! I pray you can make it through this!

[HiLife]

Does anyone know if the suspects have been arraigned? If so, what are the charges? How old are these teen suspects? Florida CAN try them as adults under their law.. IIRC.

Good questions. Tried as adults, the punishment will be hard. Then you think, can there ever be rehabilitation? If tried as adults, incarcerated with even more hardened criminals.....the cycle is vicious, producing even more vicious human beings (if that is possible).

My next thought is - did these "kids" ever have a chance? Such cruelty at such a young age. Without question, they are a menace to society. What to do?

jmo

[julianella]

Hopefully the police and DA in this case will get this family the help they need. I know the answer is always that the money isn't there for it but money can be found.

I agree! :(

[JustMyOpinion]

IDavid's article pointed to the fact that mother and son walked over a mile to get to the hospital. They are poor living in the projects and will need help. Without serious intervention is this young boy likely to lash out and end up in the CJS himself? I am left with questions.

I am, too. This family needs support & resources from the community, IMO.
I wonder how much local press ( newspaper, news stations) this is getting?
I'll check with those sources...

[JustMyOpinion]

According to the article there have been no formal charges yet.


"The two were being held without bail Friday on suspicion of armed sexual battery by multiple perpetrators, sexual performance by a child, armed home invasion and aggravated battery. Both were arrested this week, but formal charges had not been filed. Authorities said the two would be charged as adults."

Thanks for the info, WD.

[HiLife]

I also wonder about the ages of offenders. If tried as juveniles the punishment will not be sufficient in the face of the offense. Moreover, in order to do something like this are these "teenagers" merely future criminals? DO they simply represent a menace to society without any benefit?
David's article pointed to the fact that mother and son walked over a mile to get to the hospital. They are poor living in the projects and will need help. Without serious intervention is this young boy likely to lash out and end up in the CJS himself? I am left with questions.

Oops, I posted and hadn't read yours, FW. I, too, feel so frustrated when I read these stories and wonder, what do you do with this? How do you handle these young, vicious offenders? Is there any hope for them or are they locked into a life of either crime or incarceration for the rest of their lives?

I'm not optimistic.

jmo

[Hey Paula]

Who is the man who knocked on the door feigning/claiming a flat tire? It seems he might be the one who set the mother and son up for the horror they were subjected to.

I wonder if the other masked participants were known to mother and/or son? Were Lawson and Walker identified only through DNA/fingerprints? And if so, were they in a database, even at such a young age? It appears, from the article, that all suspects wore masks, including Lawson and Walker, so how were they identified? Did the son knows these boys?

All of them should be charged as adults and punished as such. If they can do something this horrific, no one is safe while they are free.

I agree with HiLife, that the level of depravity sinks to new levels daily. Just when you thought you've heard the worst, out comes a story such as this! Mother and child will need extensive counseling after having undergone such an incredibly evil, unnatural, unspeakable victimization.

IMO

[Zoey]

This is one of the saddest and disgusting stories I have heard in a while! What in the heck do people think nowadays? Do they think at all? Oh my! I am truly at a loss for words. This mother and son I can't imagine how one copes with this. And the perps! I say eye for an eye! I hope they get their Karma! What in the world...

:rose: To the mother and son! I pray you can make it through this!

Oh I so agree with you. I can't even imagine the horror that the mother and son felt. How could someone do this? Why would someone do this? What is this going to do to that innocent 12 year old?

To the mother and son, my thoughts and prayers are with you. :rose:

[HiLife]

This is one of the saddest and disgusting stories I have heard in a while! What in the heck do people think nowadays? Do they think at all? Oh my! I am truly at a loss for words. This mother and son I can't imagine how one copes with this.

And the perps! I say eye for an eye! I hope they get their Karma! What in the world...

:rose: To the mother and son! I pray you can make it through this!

I must agree with your solution, Julia......"an eye for an eye." Nothing the system is doing now is deterring this type of cruelty perpetrated on other human beings.

jmo

[dinojen]

Hopefully the police and DA in this case will get this family the help they need. I know the answer is always that the money isn't there for it but money can be found.


This is where someone besides the "county services" needs to step in, a counselor could or should donate their services for a crime as horrible as this.
Not knocking Florida, but if they have a hard enough time of keeping track of kids in their system I kind of wonder what type of mental support this Mom and son will get.

The whole story is disgusting and again we have parents saying they can't believe their child would do something like this.. they need to start believing it.. it's happening every single day. Kids or teens today have no respect for human life, granted it's just my opinion, but I hope the judge charges them as adults and they pay for what they did to these two people.

Again.. hoping someone in their area comes forward and offers support to this family.. how horrible, just when you think you have heard it all, another day makes you think otherwise.:(

[julianella]

I am, too. This family needs support & resources from the community, IMO.
I wonder how much local press ( newspaper, news stations) this is getting?
I'll check with those sources...

One would hope the media would pick up on this story without hesitation, I really would love to know how they pick and choose what is reported and considered as important...... UGH!!!

[JustMyOpinion]

Hopefully the police and DA in this case will get this family the help they need. I know the answer is always that the money isn't there for it but money can be found.

I just emailed the local parish that has recently provided outreach/support to another crime victim, pleading with them to reach out to this mother & son.

[Hey Paula]

I am, too. This family needs support & resources from the community, IMO.
I wonder how much local press ( newspaper, news stations) this is getting?
I'll check with those sources...

Hopefully, the mother was given a "morning after pill" to avoid a pregnancy. I'll leave it at that. :(

[julianella]

This is where someone besides the "county services" needs to step in, a counselor could or should donate their services for a crime as horrible as this.
Not knocking Florida, but if they have a hard enough time of keeping track of kids in their system I kind of wonder what type of mental support this Mom and son will get.

The whole story is disgusting and again we have parents saying they can't believe their child would do something like this.. they need to start believing it.. it's happening every single day. Kids or teens today have no respect for human life, granted it's just my opinion, but I hope the judge charges them as adults and they pay for what they did to these two people.

Again.. hoping someone in their area comes forward and offers support to this family.. how horrible, just when you think you have heard it all, another day makes you think otherwise.:(

Well stated! County services IMO just do enough to get by and seem like they are helping at least from the stand point I have seen!

I think more attention needs to be shown on cases like this, wake people up I can't understand what it is they think they are doing when they commit a crime like this!

I wonder do the suspects have previous records? How many were actually involved. Sometimes you find a case where one friend won't snitch on another in fear for their life (when it comes to drugs and dealers) and they will do the time while another guilty party is still out there! I hope they catch ALL involved!

[cabojenn]

This story made my stomach turn. :eek:


But I am glad (lack of a better word) that at least Crime Library is talking about this. So disturbing yet people should know that this kind of thing DOES happen and NEEDS to be addressed!

I need to 'stew' over this for a few days. At this moment, life in prison, and I mean LIFE with NO parole for ALL persons involved.

The mother and son more than deserve justice.

[fairmaiden]

The "DEPRAVITY Bar" just keeps getting lower and lower, doesn't it? Just when you think you've heard the worst, there are new lows being set daily.

Besides the obvious, one of the horrors of this story are the ages of the perpetrators. Young teenagers. It horrifies me to think they have such sickening thoughts in their heads, as to what to do with other human beings.

Daily, people and lives are being destroyed by twisted minds. It angers me that the "punishments" aren't enough to deter this tragedy. Swift, hard consequences need to be implemented to begin addressing the level of these LOW crimes.

jmo

HiLife .... I'm in complete agreement with you here. Like you, I was struck by the age of these offenders, and how deeds like this even enter their minds !!

Perhaps JMO is right, and they CAN be tried as "adults", and given appropriate punishment.

It's difficult to find words when reading something like this. It's just unbelievable.

JMO

[JustMyOpinion]

HiLife .... I'm in complete agreement with you here. Like you, I was struck by the age of these offenders, and how deeds like this even enter their minds !!

Perhaps JMO is right, and they CAN be tried as "adults", and given appropriate punishment.

It's difficult to find words when reading something like this. It's just unbelievable.

JMO

St. Ann’s Catholic Church has received dozens of e-mails and phone calls from people asking where they can send money to help the woman who was raped in her home in Dunbar Village while her 12-year-old son was assaulted.

The church will accept donations, said office manager Gloria Davidson. Checks can be made payable to the Dunbar Village Victim Assistance Fund - St. Ann’s The address is:

St. Ann’s Catholic Church 310 N. Olive Avenue West Palm Beach, FL 33401

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/local_news/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/crimeblog/

[cabojenn]

Almost forgot...thank you Crime Library for covering this story. I hadn't heard about it until this site covered it.

Please keep us up to date on this one!!!!!!

[ortiga]

My door is open all day with just a screen door latch, I can't imagine having to live where these types of perpetrators live. Where a knock on the door can mean something so despicable. Maybe someone could give the victims a helping hand to start a life somewhere else where everyone won't know what happened.

It's like there are no more rules.

IMO

[JustMyOpinion]

You can contact the Palm Beach Post, and ask them to make coverage of this case a priority.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/help/content/help/customer_service.html

[JustMyOpinion]

Almost forgot...thank you Crime Library for covering this story. I hadn't heard about it until this site covered it.

Please keep us up to date on this one!!!!!!

I agree. I am so pleased that CL has covered this story, and I would very much like to keep up to date on it.. follow the progress !

[julianella]

My door is open all day with just a screen door latch, I can't imagine having to live where these types of perpetrators live. Where a knock on the door can mean something so despicable. Maybe someone could give the victims a helping hand to start a life somewhere else where everyone won't know what happened.

It's like there are no more rules.

IMO

You are brave and lucky! I don't even like my door unlocked when I am in the restroom! And I live in a fairly decent neighborhood! When I was younger in my teens there were a group of gang members doing the same thing, knocking on the door and as soon as someone answered it they were attacked. People these days are crazy!

[Watership Down]

This is where someone besides the "county services" needs to step in, a counselor could or should donate their services for a crime as horrible as this.
Not knocking Florida, but if they have a hard enough time of keeping track of kids in their system I kind of wonder what type of mental support this Mom and son will get.

The whole story is disgusting and again we have parents saying they can't believe their child would do something like this.. they need to start believing it.. it's happening every single day. Kids or teens today have no respect for human life, granted it's just my opinion, but I hope the judge charges them as adults and they pay for what they did to these two people.

Again.. hoping someone in their area comes forward and offers support to this family.. how horrible, just when you think you have heard it all, another day makes you think otherwise.:(



It's not just your opinion Jen. Kids today are out of control.

[Hey Paula]

You are brave and lucky! I don't even like my door unlocked when I am in the restroom! And I live in a fairly decent neighborhood! When I was younger in my teens there were a group of gang members doing the same thing, knocking on the door and as soon as someone answered it they were attacked. People these days are crazy!

No neighborhood is safe from home invaders. If the idea is to steal valuables, the most affluent areas are likely targets too.

I live in a beautiful area and would never leave my door unlocked.

[JustMyOpinion]

You are brave and lucky! I don't even like my door unlocked when I am in the restroom! And I live in a fairly decent neighborhood! When I was younger in my teens there were a group of gang members doing the same thing, knocking on the door and as soon as someone answered it they were attacked. People these days are crazy!

Crimes happen everywhere, you are wise to take steps to ensure your own personal safety, IMO. There is no crime-free or safe neighborhood, IMO. That is an illusion... you are wise!

[hawgustusgloop]

Those kids that did this are beyond SICK. That is one of the most sadistic things I have ever heard of. I find reading about this to be horribly disgusting and disturbing. However, I am glad this is being posted and commented on here because it is REALITY. It actually happened to this poor boy and his mother. How horrifying! Kudos to CrimeLibrary for confronting this uncomfortable topic.

:rose: May these victims receive the care and support they need.

[lorettalockhorn]

Who is the man who knocked on the door feigning/claiming a flat tire? It seems he might be the one who set the mother and son up for the horror they were subjected to.

I wonder if the other masked participants were known to mother and/or son? Were Lawson and Walker identified only through DNA/fingerprints? And if so, were they in a database, even at such a young age? It appears, from the article, that all suspects wore masks, including Lawson and Walker, so how were they identified? Did the son knows these boys?

All of them should be charged as adults and punished as such. If they can do something this horrific, no one is safe while they are free.

I agree with HiLife, that the level of depravity sinks to new levels daily. Just when you thought you've heard the worst, out comes a story such as this! Mother and child will need extensive counseling after having undergone such an incredibly evil, unnatural, unspeakable victimization.

IMO

That identification was made through DNA and fingerprints is exactly what I wondered. Was there prior involvement with LE or was this compelled?

I wonder also about the father's statement: "My son has a good heart," the elder Walker said outside court. "I can't believe my son would do something like this. I don't teach my son violence so I don't understand."

So many parents of young perpetrators say something similar. Are these children bad seeds, are the parents simply negligent with regard to what sways their young lives, can it simply be blamed on too much Grand Theft Auto and rap music, or other negative, near pornographic, degrading influences that seem so prolific and easily attained?

My prayers are with the victims of this most cruel and debasing crime. Thanks to JMO for the address for St. Ann's.

[sweetcharlotte]

I think Lionel Tate is representive of what can/may happen if these boys are not dealt with properly. There is nothing that I have seen so far to make me think they should not be tired and sentenced as adults.

Condolences to this mother - she's suffering not only for what she personally experienced, but for what her son had to endure as well. Prayers for both of them for comfort and peace in their hearts.

jmo

[Hey Paula]

That identification was made through DNA and fingerprints is exactly what I wondered. Was there prior involvement with LE or was this compelled?

I wonder also about the father's statement: "My son has a good heart," the elder Walker said outside court. "I can't believe my son would do something like this. I don't teach my son violence so I don't understand."

So many parents of young perpetrators say something similar. Are these children bad seeds, are the parents simply negligent with regard to what sways their young lives, can it simply be blamed on too much Grand Theft Auto and rap music, or other negative, near pornographic, degrading influences that seem so prolific and easily attained?

My prayers are with the victims of this most cruel and debasing crime. Thanks to JMO for the link to the St. Ann's.

I still want to know the identity of the man who feigned/claimed he had a flat tire. It seems he set the mother and son up for what occurred. And if so, he is the adult mastermind of this horrible event.

IMO

[lorettalockhorn]

I still want to know the identity of the man who feigned/claimed he had a flat tire. It seems he set the mother and son up for what occurred. And if so, he is the adult mastermind of this horrible event.

IMO

Do the parents of the alleged perps have any idea what adults their children run with or who is influencing them in such a hideous way?

Posted yesterday:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/local_news/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/crimeblog/entries/2007/07/09/rape_victim_in.html

[dinojen]

Could very well of been the oldest of this horrible group of criminals. They did say the oldest was 16.. it could of very well been him knocking on the door.
I don't open my door for anyone I don't know, smartest thing to of done is told them I'll call the cops for you.. But hindsight doesn't always work to your benefit.
Could of been any of the group that feigned the flat tire, hopefully they will catch every single one that was involved in this horrible act.

While the paper reported it was a "man" that knocked on the door, it could very well of been one of the teens... either way... eveyone involved needs to be prosecuted to the highest level. IMO

[lorettalockhorn]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/07/04/0704lawson.html

"Lawson was also charged with purse snatching and assault in January."

[Hey Paula]

Do the parents of the alleged perps have any idea what adults their children run with or who is influencing them in such a hideous way?

Posted yesterday:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/local_news/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/crimeblog/entries/2007/07/09/rape_victim_in.html

Thanks for posting the link, LL!

I think LE should guard and protect this woman and her son until all involved are in custody, including and perhaps most importantly, the man who knocked on her door claiming he had a flat tire.

I can't help wondering if this was a vindictive, malicious act perpetrated at the behest of the adult. This doesn't sound like a "normal" thing to do to strangers during a home invasion, of which the main purpose is usually to steal money and/or other items. This unspeakable crime seems like its more personal.

IMO

[Hey Paula]

Could very well of been the oldest of this horrible group of criminals. They did say the oldest was 16.. it could of very well been him knocking on the door.
I don't open my door for anyone I don't know, smartest thing to of done is told them I'll call the cops for you.. But hindsight doesn't always work to your benefit.
Could of been any of the group that feigned the flat tire, hopefully they will catch every single one that was involved in this horrible act.

While the paper reported it was a "man" that knocked on the door, it could very well of been one of the teens... either way... eveyone involved needs to be prosecuted to the highest level. IMO

Hi Jen!

I don't think a 16 y/o would be referred to as a "man".

IMO

[dinojen]

Hi Jen!

I don't think a 16 y/o would be referred to as a man.

IMO

I realize that ... but the paper might of also made a mistake by referring to the male as a man. Why would someone knock on the door to ask for help, then just no more comment of him, or if he saw this group of male teens push their way into this woman's apartment.. why would he not report it.. something just doesn't sit... I tend to think the "person" they think knocked on the door asking for help was part of this group.. they just haven't apprehended him yet...

I can't imagine an adult male doing something like this.. but a bunch of sicko teens ... makes sense to me.. of course this is just my opinion.

By the way.. Hi Paula...:)

[julianella]

Thanks for posting the link, LL!

I think LE should guard and protect this woman and her son until all involved are in custody, including and perhaps most importantly, the man who knocked on her door claiming he had a flat tire.

I can't help wondering if this was a vindictive, malicious act perpetrated at the behest of the adult. This doesn't sound like a "normal" thing to do to strangers during a home invasion, of which the main purpose is usually to steal money and/or other items. This unspeakable crime seems like its more personal.

IMO

I wonder if drugs were involved. If the suspects were on drugs?

I don't understand why these victims can't be put in protective custody, with psychiatric help!

[Luke Davis]

After getting past the horror of what happened there are a number of questions which will make for an interesting case. I'm thinking this may have been a gang initiation where older boys or adults participated. Perhaps a younger participant will become a witness and get a light sentence or not be prosecuted at all.

With so many people involved it is going to be a very expensive case because the public defenders office will only be allowed to represent one defendant.

It is interesting that they give the suspects names. I wonder if that indicates they will be tried as adults.

As far as publicity, I have heard this case discussed twice last week, on talk radio in San Francisco and California.

I sometimes wonder if the whole reason for the horror is not the desire to get publicity.

:rose:

[Mishell1383]

I can't begin to fathom this. What sick pleasure do you endure to come up with watching/forcing a boy to have sex with his mother. All I can think of is hoping this boy doesn't do something so drastic as to take his own life. How can you live with doing that, even though it wasn't your fault? The confusion, hatred, anger, remorse, helplessness etc. that this young boy must feel is beyond me. I know his mother must feel the same way, but I think that with her being older maybe she has a better way of dealing? I feel so sorry for these two. Words cannot describe. I'm so glad these vicious animals have been arrested. I hope the law prevails.

:rose:

[lorettalockhorn]

According to this, they will be charged as adults:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/07/06/0706gangrape.html

Lawson confessed to participation. Walker's print was on file due to a previous arrest. More arrests are expected.

[dinojen]

It will be interesting to see if any of the "prime time" cable networks pick up this story !! Then again, this happened in the projects, low income, sounds like single mother.. so I can probably answer that real quick. Greta will give it a quick few comments or possibly a whole segment.. then move on to more important stuff like Paris Hilton or some other tabloid story. If that turns out to be the case.. that's horrible. IMO

[cabojenn]

Random or personal...who DOES this ****????? Seriously? How can roughly 10 people get together sober OR high and DO THIS? Straight jackets for all in solitary FOREVER. I don't even want to know why they did it. Just lock'em up. Seriously. Okay maybe later I'll want to know why. But right now I am just too sick and angry for this family.

A friend of mine (not a close friend) was just kidnapped in TJ- blind folded, cut up, electrocuted etc., all while they were smoking meth (he says) until he signed over his pretty little truck.

Of course nothing will happen even if they catch the people that did this to my 'friend', but this family was not doing anything but answering the door for someone who claimed they needed help.

I'm distgusted. Can't think strait. Publicity? That's possible too. Then hopefully they'll get it and be made an example of in the court system. :flamemad:

[cabojenn]

It will be interesting to see if any of the "prime time" cable networks pick up this story !! Then again, this happened in the projects, low income, sounds like single mother.. so I can probably answer that real quick. Greta will give it a quick few comments or possibly a whole segment.. then move on to more important stuff like Paris Hilton or some other tabloid story. If that turns out to be the case.. that's horrible. IMO


True. Maybe Heraldo might be more inclined to report on this? Or Bill?


atlarge@foxnews.com

[attorneywan2be]

OMG!!!! this is a horrible crime..it's scary..something has to be done!

They should provide the medical and pschiatric help needed for this family..:rose:

As to the criminals who committed this HEINOUS crime.. they should all be tried as adults..

I feel sick to my stomach!! how can anyone be capable of committing such a monstrous crime..! :flamemad:

[dinojen]

Hi Jen!

I don't think a 16 y/o would be referred to as a "man".

IMO

Just read this in the newest link here...

According to police, the assailants tricked the woman into opening her door by saying her tires were flat, then forced her back into her home, where they terrorized her and her son. They raped her repeatedly and beat her child, pouring household chemicals into his eyes, along with other acts that horrified veteran investigators.



http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/07/06/0706gangrape.html

[dinojen]

True. Maybe Heraldo might be more inclined to report on this? Or Bill?


atlarge@foxnews.com

Puhleez, Geraldo would take all the seriousness out of the message that needs to be brought forward. IMO... In accuality I don't think any of them would do the story any credit. It needs to be addressed by the real news not tabloid. JMHO.

[Luke Davis]

Could very well of been the oldest of this horrible group of criminals. They did say the oldest was 16.. it could of very well been him knocking on the door.
I don't open my door for anyone I don't know, smartest thing to of done is told them I'll call the cops for you.. But hindsight doesn't always work to your benefit.
Could of been any of the group that feigned the flat tire, hopefully they will catch every single one that was involved in this horrible act.

While the paper reported it was a "man" that knocked on the door, it could very well of been one of the teens... either way... eveyone involved needs to be prosecuted to the highest level. IMO

The shame is that these things tend to happen to good people, helpful people. Who knows how many doors were knocked on before someone offered help?

[Hey Paula]

Just read this in the newest link here...

According to police, the assailants tricked the woman into opening her door by saying her tires were flat, then forced her back into her home, where they terrorized her and her son. They raped her repeatedly and beat her child, pouring household chemicals into his eyes, along with other acts that horrified veteran investigators.



http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/07/06/0706gangrape.html

It seems like LE can't get their story straight, LOL.

In Helping Hand's OP, it states a man knocked on her door claiming his car had the flat tire.

Unless the perp kids knew her and what car she owned, how would they know she had a flat tire? It seems like these kids either knew the woman or her son.

IMO

It's nice to "see" you Jen! :) It's been awhile since we "ran into" one another. I hope all is well with you and yours!

[Luke Davis]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/07/04/0704lawson.html

"Lawson was also charged with purse snatching and assault in January."There are some fascinating comments after the article.

:rose:

[dinojen]

It seems like LE can't get their story straight, LOL.

In Helping Hand's OP, it states a man knocked on her door claiming his car had the flat tire.

Unless the perp kids knew her and what car she owned, how would they know she had a flat tire? It seems like these kids either knew the woman or her son.

IMO

It's nice to "see" you Jen! :) It's been awhile since we "ran into" one another. I hope all is well with you and yours!



Nice seeing you too Paula...

As for the change in the story... it might be they are getting the truth out of the one that is talking... who knows.. I mean after all we both know the news had been known to report it incorrectly before.. right..;)

[Luke Davis]

It seems like LE can't get their story straight, LOL.

In Helping Hand's OP, it states a man knocked on her door claiming his car had the flat tire.

Unless the perp kids knew her and what car she owned, how would they know she had a flat tire? It seems like these kids either knew the woman or her son.

IMO

It's nice to "see" you Jen! :) It's been awhile since we "ran into" one another. I hope all is well with you and yours!

I took it to mean that the man's car had a flat tire.:shrug:

I have had people knock on my door and say their battery went dead in their car. I gave them a jump. One time was very scary and I think I may have been an intended victim but fortunately my wife stood in the doorway with a cell phone.

[ortiga]

After getting past the horror of what happened there are a number of questions which will make for an interesting case. I'm thinking this may have been a gang initiation where older boys or adults participated. Perhaps a younger participant will become a witness and get a light sentence or not be prosecuted at all.

With so many people involved it is going to be a very expensive case because the public defenders office will only be allowed to represent one defendant.

It is interesting that they give the suspects names. I wonder if that indicates they will be tried as adults.

As far as publicity, I have heard this case discussed twice last week, on talk radio in San Francisco and California.

I sometimes wonder if the whole reason for the horror is not the desire to get publicity.

:rose:

Is that true that only one defendent would get the pd? The office only alots one to a trial?

[frydaddy]

http://www.wptv.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=d38eaab5-d429-4f9c-95b0-5410a41ed4c2

[ortiga]

There are some fascinating comments after the article.

:rose:

Hard to believe the oldest one used a condom. I'm having a hard time fitting that in with the severity of the crime. Social responsibility in the midst of a horrible crime.

[julianella]

It will be interesting to see if any of the "prime time" cable networks pick up this story !! Then again, this happened in the projects, low income, sounds like single mother.. so I can probably answer that real quick. Greta will give it a quick few comments or possibly a whole segment.. then move on to more important stuff like Paris Hilton or some other tabloid story. If that turns out to be the case.. that's horrible. IMO

Yeah Paris Hilton... really there are so many NEWS stories out there we don't get to hear about because either Paris Hilton was eating dinner somewhere or Lindsey Lohan Drank out of a cup! There are plenty of entertainment channels out there, I just wish the news would carry the news!

[dinojen]

I wouldn't call it "social responsibility" more like trying to cover his own ass and not leaving any DNA.. I woudn't give this creep credit for anything.. after reading that last article.

[FDInLaw]

"OMG" is right . . . this is so sick! :flamemad:

How could someone do this to a mother and son. I don't think there is a punishment fitting for this crime! :cuss:

[Luke Davis]

Is that true that only one defendent would get the pd? The office only alots one to a trial?With a possible 10 defendants I would think it is a sure thing. There may be juveniles and adults. It appears from the story one has confessed and one hasn't. How could the same lawyer represent both?

In my area the PD often contracts to private law firms in such cases. An exception might be made for two brothers which I suspect may be involved.

:rose:

[julianella]

With a possible 10 defendants I would think it is a sure thing. There may be juveniles and adults. It appears from the story one has confessed and one hasn't. How could the same lawyer represent both?

In my area the PD often contracts to private law firms in such cases. An exception might be made for two brothers which I suspect may be involved.

:rose:

Being this was in the projects I wonder if it was gang related... like an initiation or something with the younger boys involved?

[ortiga]

I wouldn't call it "social responsibility" more like trying to cover his own ass and not leaving any DNA.. I woudn't give this creep credit for anything.. after reading that last article.


Well I doubt that these hoodlums know what the word responsibility even means, but if he was using a condom to hide his participation, why leave it behind?

[ortiga]

Being this was in the projects I wonder if it was gang related... like an initiation or something with the younger boys involved?


Sounds to me like she was targeted because of coming from the DR.

[I'mSun]

http://www.wptv.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=d38eaab5-d429-4f9c-95b0-5410a41ed4c2This story brought tears to my eyes, FD. Thanks for posting the link. How absolutely horrible for that poor woman and her son. Imagine the fear and the pain they were forced to endure by those evil, vile people - who aren't even adults yet. This crime is at a new low.

[frydaddy]

"OMG" is right . . . this is so sick! :flamemad:

How could someone do this to a mother and son. I don't think there is a punishment fitting for this crime! :cuss:

Actually, there probably is. People just don't have the stomach for it, which I find unfortunate!

[Luke Davis]

Being this was in the projects I wonder if it was gang related... like an initiation or something with the younger boys involved?ITA I would be very surprised if it isn't gang related.

[Hey Paula]

Actually, there probably is. People just don't have the stomach for it, which I find unfortunate!

ITA, Frydaddy!

PC, and treating the uncivilized with civility, is largely responsible for the much of what ails this Country, and for horrors yet to unfold.

IMO

[dinojen]

Well I doubt that these hoodlums know what the word responsibility even means, but if he was using a condom to hide his participation, why leave it behind?

Easy... STUPIDITY

There is no excuse any parent could give for what these animals did and I would be ashamed to even try to explain why they did what they did .. or to even make the comment, I can't believe my child could do this.. They would be better off offering their sympathy and profound apologies for what actions their "child" did..

[frydaddy]

This story brought tears to my eyes, FD. Thanks for posting the link. How absolutely horrible for that poor woman and her son. Imagine the fear and the pain they were forced to endure by those evil, vile people - who aren't even adults yet. This crime is at a new low.

YW Sunny! I'm disgusted by the whole story. I pray for the victims that they can heal mentally and somehow lead as normal a life as possible. All other comments, regarding the suspects, are better left unsaid at this moment!

[Luke Davis]

Sounds to me like she was targeted because of coming from the DR.Very possible she was not a legal immigrant and people thought she wouldn't go to police. Or the gang has something against a DR gang.:shrug:

[Lavindar]

I just emailed the local parish that has recently provided outreach/support to another crime victim, pleading with them to reach out to this mother & son.



Good for you!!!!!!!


I really hope they can get enough dna that, if not right now, but later, they can identify these creeps. I think they should ALL be tried as adults - they probably think they are MEN cuz they did this.

[julianella]

Well I doubt that these hoodlums know what the word responsibility even means, but if he was using a condom to hide his participation, why leave it behind?

I think he was using a condom to "protect" himself in the STD way, although I am surprised by it to. Was it premeditated I wonder, being he had the condom on him. I think he left it behind because he is stupid #1 and because with the threats he gave maybe he thought they wouldn't tell.....

This is just sick! It reminds me of another story not long ago that CTV had a discussion on about a couple who were taken and BOTH repeatedly raped and dismembered (I do believe) and the first bit of "news" I heard of it was on Crime Library!

[Hey Paula]

I took it to mean that the man's car had a flat tire.:shrug:

I have had people knock on my door and say their battery went dead in their car. I gave them a jump. One time was very scary and I think I may have been an intended victim but fortunately my wife stood in the doorway with a cell phone.

The OP did state it was the man's car which had the flat tire, but a subsequent article, linked by Dinojen, stated the thugs told the woman her car had the flat tire, which indicates they either knew the woman or her son, IMO.

What a sad commentary, in that we might very well be putting ourselves in grave danger, thinking we are helping someone in need.

You were likely to escape being victimized.

IMO

[julianella]

Easy... STUPIDITY

There is no excuse any parent could give for what these animals did and I would be ashamed to even try to explain why they did what they did .. or to even make the comment, I can't believe my child could do this.. They would be better off offering their sympathy and profound apologies for what actions their "child" did..

With the age of some involved the parents should have been keeping a better eye on them!

I agree I would be to ashamed to talk on this myself!

[frydaddy]

ITA, Frydaddy!

PC, and treating the uncivilized with civility, is largely responsible for the much of what ails this Country, and for horrors yet to unfold.

IMO

100% correct!

[Lavindar]

Easy... STUPIDITY

There is no excuse any parent could give for what these animals did and I would be ashamed to even try to explain why they did what they did .. or to even make the comment, I can't believe my child could do this.. They would be better off offering their sympathy and profound apologies for what actions their "child" did.. The father is in denial. This is not shoplifting. This is SERIOUS and there had to be hints - bad friends or something. I fully expected my oldest to wind up in jail. He never did, thank God.

[ortiga]

"After the assailants fled, the victims walked a mile to Good Samaritan Medical Center, where staff members called police."

Earlier I said DR, but on second reading I see it says Haiti. Where did I get DR? :confused:

[chambord]

To be honest I saw a thread on CTV message boards with this story showcased, just the title alone caused a horrific shock to me. I just couldn't open the thread to read the details I was so appalled. Now that I have read the story here, I see I wasn't wrong with my feelings. Frankly, it was even worse than I had thought.

This mother and son went through the worst crime that could ever happen to either of them. If this young man doesn't get some serious counseling, he is never going to recover from such an experience. I hope someone steps in and offers this family just that.

As for the suspects, I can't write what I think of them. How do you defend this crime?

[Jadedblueeyes]

To be honest I saw a thread on CTV message boards with this story showcased, just the title alone caused a horrific shock to me. I just couldn't open the thread to read the details I was so appalled. Now that I have read the story here, I see I wasn't wrong with my feelings. Frankly, it was even worse than I had thought.

This mother and son went through the worst crime that could ever happen to either of them. If this young man doesn't get some serious counseling, he is never going to recover from such an experience. I hope someone steps in and offers this family just that.

As for the suspects, I can't write what I think of them. How do you defend this crime?

I didn't realize that FW had put this story here. I placed the same story in the News from the South but even when I did I was so appalled at the depravity done it made me squeamish even reading it.

What in the world is happening to our young people? It seems day after day we hear such horrible stories of mayhem, murder and violence done by young people. It just seems to get more perverse and twisted.

I cannot begin to imagine the mental damage it has done for both this mother and her son. How can they ever feel comfortable or relaxed again around each other like they use to feel?

As a mother I would have such rage in my heart for these sickening monsters. They not only physically/mentally violated them in such degrading ways but they stole her son as she knew him away from her because he will never be the same and neither will she.

God help us all and God help this mom and her son.

imoo

[One2Snoop]

The "DEPRAVITY Bar" just keeps getting lower and lower, doesn't it? Just when you think you've heard the worst, there are new lows being set daily.

Besides the obvious, one of the horrors of this story are the ages of the perpetrators. Young teenagers. It horrifies me to think they have such sickening thoughts in their heads, as to what to do with other human beings.

Daily, people and lives are being destroyed by twisted minds. It angers me that the "punishments" aren't enough to deter this tragedy. Swift, hard consequences need to be implemented to begin addressing the level of these LOW crimes.

jmo

:eek: :eek: :eek: OMG! I'm speechless! I agree HiLife, stiffer penalties for this sort of behavior needs to be implemented now.

Since this family is poor, shouldn't social services step in and help? Not sure how that works but some state assistance should be offered.

I know of a 14 yr old who was raped and all sorts of agencies stepped in to make sure she got proper medical attention/counseling and the state paid for all of it. I know its probably different state by state - but I can't imgine Fl not having something in place for victims like this.

[One2Snoop]

snipped from the article on page 1...

"My son has a good heart," the elder Walker said outside court. "I can't believe my son would do something like this. I don't teach my son violence so I don't understand"

He may not teach his son violence but he obviously wasn't paying any attention to the sort of people his son was hanging out with - :no:

[chambord]

I didn't realize that FW had put this story here. I placed the same story in the News from the South but even when I did I was so appalled at the depravity done it made me squeamish even reading it.

What in the world is happening to our young people? It seems day after day we hear such horrible stories of mayhem, murder and violence done by young people. It just seems to get more perverse and twisted.

I cannot begin to imagine the mental damage it has done for both this mother and her son. How can they ever feel comfortable or relaxed again around each other like they use to feel?

As a mother I would have such rage in my heart for these sickening monsters. They not only physically/mentally violated them in such degrading ways but they stole her son as she knew him away from her because he will never be the same and neither will she.

God help us all and God help this mom and her son.

imoo


Your so right, Ocean, *they stole her son as she knew him*. That is something the mother will live with every day for the rest of her life. Unimaginable! How this family will recover is beyond me!! How will they look at each ever again with innocence with this in between them? It will haunt them every day!!

As for the suspects, the other day I listened to a psysc. discuss this teen violence in regards to the two young girls who were going to kidnap a baby. Her opinion is the movies,TV, music these kids are growing up with glamorizes the violence and gore, and the respect of others. Not to mention, the parents not around to supervise, many of these kids are growing up with their computors and ipods, and their parents are a side dish to their lives.

[Otter]

With the age of some involved the parents should have been keeping a better eye on them!

I agree I would be to ashamed to talk on this myself!

Maybe in this case, that was the worst thing:

Police had Walker's palm print because he had been arrested previously, spokesman Ted White said. Walker previously had been charged with loitering and trespassing, White said.

His mother, Ruby Nell Walker, has been arrested nine times on charges that include aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and assault with intent to do bodily harm. His father, also named Nathan Walker, has been arrested eight times.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/07/nathan-walker-a.html

What an awful story, just when I thought I've heard it all. They will be in my prayers.

[JosieD]

This has got the be the saddest thing I've ever read. That poor mother and son. I pray that they make it through this okay and become stronger and closer than ever for it. :rose: :rose:

[adnoid]

...I don't think there is a punishment fitting for this crime!

I can think of several.

[adnoid]

ITA, Frydaddy!

PC, and treating the uncivilized with civility, is largely responsible for the much of what ails this Country, and for horrors yet to unfold.

IMO

In a lot of people's opinions. Mine, for instance.

[DesertWalker]

This is where someone besides the "county services" needs to step in, a counselor could or should donate their services for a crime as horrible as this.
Not knocking Florida, but if they have a hard enough time of keeping track of kids in their system I kind of wonder what type of mental support this Mom and son will get.

The whole story is disgusting and again we have parents saying they can't believe their child would do something like this.. they need to start believing it.. it's happening every single day. Kids or teens today have no respect for human life, granted it's just my opinion, but I hope the judge charges them as adults and they pay for what they did to these two people.

Again.. hoping someone in their area comes forward and offers support to this family.. how horrible, just when you think you have heard it all, another day makes you think otherwise.:(

Can't add much to what you've all said above other than to hope the community comes forward to help the families of the perps as well. Can you imagine the horror they must be feeling ... knowing their children may be responsible for this atrocity?

How can a human beings' mind even conceive of doing this? How can any society heal a mind that has?

[Luke Davis]

The OP did state it was the man's car which had the flat tire, but a subsequent article, linked by Dinojen, stated the thugs told the woman her car had the flat tire, which indicates they either knew the woman or her son, IMO.

What a sad commentary, in that we might very well be putting ourselves in grave danger, thinking we are helping someone in need.

You were likely to escape being victimized.

IMO

I see that, it also says her car was stolen. If it was me, I would call the police for my car and go outside for his car. :shrug: Also, one of the stories says her tires were slashed, which to me is different than flat. Add to that, a story says they are from the Dominican Republic which puts a different light on it.

[Jadedblueeyes]

[QUOTE=Otter;8902546]Maybe in this case, that was the worst thing:

Police had Walker's palm print because he had been arrested previously, spokesman Ted White said. Walker previously had been charged with loitering and trespassing, White said.

His mother, Ruby Nell Walker, has been arrested nine times on charges that include aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and assault with intent to do bodily harm. His father, also named Nathan Walker, has been arrested eight times.
********************************************


Well this mother and father showed him the perfect path to violence as the answer for everything. I wonder if any of these aggravated assaults were against children?

[phynickyb]

With the age of some involved the parents should have been keeping a better eye on them!

I agree I would be to ashamed to talk on this myself!

Moral Values is what is lacking here. :flamemad: The very sad fact is that I was taught what was right and wrong. To respect others. It didn't just mysteriously infiltrate my being. When I was disrespectful, I was corrected AND disciplined. I was rarely "right" when it came to excusing away my actions. My parents made me responsible for my actions. Therefore I learned to respect other human beings for being just that. How can anyone do those types of HEINOUS acts on other human beings, and yet have been taught these simple moral values. It starts and ends at home. The teachers in schools are not there to teach our kids those values. They are there to help them get an education. Too many parents believe that the teachers responsibilities include the "life" training. Not so.

I can't believe that this story has been pushed down. The reality of "life" needs to be known if there are to be any changes in the outcome.

[I'mSun]

snipped from the article on page 1...

He may not teach his son violence but he obviously wasn't paying any attention to the sort of people his son was hanging out with - :no:

His dad said, "Maybe he's just hanging out with the wrong crowd. I don't know."
Well, gee, maybe it is YOUR responsibility to KNOW THESE THINGS!
(If he is convicted, he faces life in prison for the horrible things he did to that mother and her son.)

[cabojenn]

Moral Values is what is lacking here. :flamemad: The very sad fact is that I was taught what was right and wrong. To respect others. It didn't just mysteriously infiltrate my being. When I was disrespectful, I was corrected AND disciplined. I was rarely "right" when it came to excusing away my actions. My parents made me responsible for my actions. Therefore I learned to respect other human beings for being just that. How can anyone do those types of HEINOUS acts on other human beings, and yet have been taught these simple moral values. It starts and ends at home. The teachers in schools are not there to teach our kids those values. They are there to help them get an education. Too many parents believe that the teachers responsibilities include the "life" training. Not so.

I can't believe that this story has been pushed down. The reality of "life" needs to be known if there are to be any changes in the outcome.

Agreed 100%. I just don't get it. All my mother had to do was look at me by the time I was 6, I knew what that 'look' meant. I'm sure it was the same for most of us here.

[Luke Davis]

His dad said, "Maybe he's just hanging out with the wrong crowd. I don't know."
Well, gee, maybe it is YOUR responsibility to KNOW THESE THINGS!
(If he is convicted, he faces life in prison for the horrible things he did to that mother and her son.)Maybe his kid was one of the few who knew who his father was.

[Atok]

Maybe in this case, that was the worst thing:

Police had Walker's palm print because he had been arrested previously, spokesman Ted White said. Walker previously had been charged with loitering and trespassing, White said.

His mother, Ruby Nell Walker, has been arrested nine times on charges that include aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and assault with intent to do bodily harm. His father, also named Nathan Walker, has been arrested eight times.

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/07/nathan-walker-a.html

What an awful story, just when I thought I've heard it all. They will be in my prayers.

I am not surprised to learn that the one offender's parents were BOTH repeat violators. We have criminals raising criminals. We don't have the treatments or the infrastructure in our communities funded to address the myriad of problems being faced by thousands living in them, some below poverty every day. People not involved turn a blind eye, it's like the problem is "somewhere else" will be handled by "some agency" we all forget the agencies are slashed, there is overburdened workers in them all. We have services, and no disrespect to those helping groups that go out of their way each and every day to do their jobs and go beyond their jobs because they care... but it is clearly not enough anymore. I don't think we've had enough funding or infrastructure or help for over 30 years in America to combat these rising issues.

Our society has been heading in a steep decline for a long time and it is not addressed by complaining people have lost their morals in a holier than them tone of voice. It is not solved by whispering "there but for the grace of god go I" and heading over to your local supermarket for your dinner shopping. We, as a citizenry can't keep disregarding these inhumane, dehumanizing acts and assuming we have good, enforced laws and good courts and some big policeman will stop the bad guys. We may have to raise our taxes even higher to pay for services we know are required. We may have to force our representatives to clarify what they do with the tax money we already pay. We have to hold accountable every person in the chain of a community to help us reclaim our communities.

I hear alot of "not my problem" "not in my back yard"-type answers as well as a few OMG's how disturbing when I inquire about these horrendous crimes and ask what should we, as a collective do about them. It's going to boil over. I know lots of people unwilling to impose the ultimate penalty when society and the individual are obviously ill suited, yet these same people
won't pay more to build completel housing and food for the remainder of some offenders life. Or pay to attempt rehabilitation, or give a job to a released offender, or live next door to one. Think about it. What are we going to do?

To be honest I want to say after all this rant, that I apply this to myself. I read these stories on CL and Court TV and I am appalled some days, I cry on others, I get angry, I post on a few and make gossipy commentary but then I turn my computer... off. And I close my eyes at night grateful that I nor my family members are a victim...today. I hope that my daughter isn't a victim tomorrow and I'm not sure what else to do, but stay vigilant and make my voice heard and my votes count.

[cabojenn]

I hear alot of "not my problem" "not in my back yard"-type answers

I snipped purely for length. Your post was very well written and so true. I remember someone told me while emailing her friends that my cousin was missing, the friend asked her not to email her that sort of thing! :no: People just don't care anymore. The love of the greater number has cooled off as predicted.

I know we see so much that we just want to turn away from it all. But we can't live a life free from strife unless we actively make it better; not for ourselves but for those around us. We reap what we sow.

I am going to go have those talks with my children now, followed with lots of hugs.

[FDInLaw]

To be honest I saw a thread on CTV message boards with this story showcased, just the title alone caused a horrific shock to me. I just couldn't open the thread to read the details I was so appalled. Now that I have read the story here, I see I wasn't wrong with my feelings. Frankly, it was even worse than I had thought.

This mother and son went through the worst crime that could ever happen to either of them. If this young man doesn't get some serious counseling, he is never going to recover from such an experience. I hope someone steps in and offers this family just that.

As for the suspects, I can't write what I think of them. How do you defend this crime?
This was my exact experience. When I first saw the title I couldn't bring myself to read the thread. This is horrible beyond belief. It reminds me of some of the atrocities that are occurring in places like the Sudan and Iraq. . . somewhere other than here. My heart really goes out to this mother and son. :rose: :rose:

[DesertWalker]

snipped for relevance ...

..... Questions and more questions...

Also read that Walker's grandmother is worried about being kicked out of her low income housing because the grandson stayed with her. WOW - you would think this woman would be more concerned with true the victims here!

My word for the day- UGGGGHHHHHHHHHHPerhaps the grandmother knows it's the only place she can afford to live. As we get older and have a fixed and lower income we have fewer and fewer options open to us. Perhaps she is not able to drive. As we age we are less mobile and need our stores and doctors to be closer. All concerns this Grandmother rightly is worried about.

Have we any way of actually knowing how she feels about the victims? She and the other members of the perps' families are no doubt in fear of community reprisals.

Because this crime is so abhorrent and atrocious is society morally and ethically forgiven for having no sympathy for the perps' families and extended family members? Have our own children not made some rotten decisions and choices as they were growing up? At what point is it parenting skills that are lacking or should a child be held accountable for their own actions? Who is so perfect that they will step forward to set criteria and measure others' parenting skills?

These are also valid questions ...

[I'mSun]

The mother and son have a new place to live and their phone has been replaced thanks to a local church.

Here (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/local_news/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/crimeblog/entries/2007/07/10/rape_victim_get.html) is the link.

[frydaddy]

The mother and son have a new place to live and their phone has been replaced thanks to a local church.

Here (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/local_news/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/crimeblog/entries/2007/07/10/rape_victim_get.html) is the link.

Thanks for posting this Sunny! I hope these two never want for anything again and turn out okay mentally and physically.

As far as this thread, I'd suggest people read the comments on the bottom of your link. While I think most here are above the types of comments there, these types of issues usually get heated pretty quick. I hope I'm wrong!

[HiLife]

The mother and son have a new place to live and their phone has been replaced thanks to a local church.

Here (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/local_news/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/crimeblog/entries/2007/07/10/rape_victim_get.html) is the link.

Thanks for posting this update, as this is a bright spot (your nic is so apropos!) in the midst of an otherwise dark, discouraging, tragic story. It helps me regain a little hope and faith in mankind when I see the good in many people come out in their desire to help others who are suffering.

Like many here, I had seen the headlines and the title immediately repulsed me. My initial reaction was to "protect," in a desire to not puncture my safe "world." I'm glad this story was brought to CL because we must get past the revulsion and confront what is happening in our world. Yes, it is sick and disturbed. But it is reality. We need to know with whom and what we are dealing. There is no benefit to sticking our heads in the sand.

"Forewarned is to be forearmed."

[Luke Davis]

adult sentences (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-0710gangrape,0,6378100.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines)

West Palm Beach -- Calling the Dunbar Village gang rape the most horrific and senseless act he has ever seen, State Attorney Barry Krischer said Tuesday he is referring two teens and anyone else arrested in the crime to a grand jury, guaranteeing adult sentences should they be convicted.

"It is to my mind the worst crime I've seen in 37 years in the business," Krischer said. "This is as low as you can go. As the elected state attorney, the strongest statement I can make about how awful this crime is, is to ensure they get adult sanctions."

[Mishell1383]

I'd hate to say this and even have this attitude, but IMO I feel as though the reason more younger kids are acting in such disgraceful ways is because the parents are both working. Being in the younger generation but not the youngest, I have seen first hand more and more of both parents working and not being able to have such strong supervision for their children. And seeing the effetcs. By seeing the older generation when one parent stayed home and the other worked there was more discipline and structure. Family dinners were more frequent and kids were told to play outside instead of sitting in front of the tv or computer. Some of you may not agree with me, but even growing up there were more of the stay at home parents than there are today. I could be wrong but again this is just my own opinion. I'm not talking about womens rights or any other subject other than discipline and possibly a reason for this terrible uproar of kid crme. and i'm just stating what I have seen imo.

[I'mSun]

Thanks for posting this Sunny! I hope these two never want for anything again and turn out okay mentally and physically.

As far as this thread, I'd suggest people read the comments on the bottom of your link. While I think most here are above the types of comments there, these types of issues usually get heated pretty quick. I hope I'm wrong!You are welcome, FD! ITA with what you said and I hope, too, they will be OK.

[Luke Davis]

spring break (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csJeoCeMbJA)

[Mishell1383]

wow you guys are right, those comments are bad. omg.

How are they going to heal from this? This is absolutely unimaginable, I can't get over this.

[JustMyOpinion]

Add to that, a story says they are from the Dominican Republic which puts a different light on it.

It puts no "different light on it" for me, Luke Davis.
This woman and her son are victims, their race or nationality is immaterial, IMO
Those responsible for harming them are perpetrators, their race and nationality is also immaterial...IMO.
The crimes were henious, vicious, and cruel beyond description.
The victims are entitled to compassion, mercy, justice, resources and support..IMO
The investigation needs to be thorough & exhaustive, and all of those responsible for causing this harm must be brought to justice and prosecuted to the full extent of Florida law.....IMO

[Luke Davis]

Mother Gang Raped by Ten Teenagers; Son Forced to Join In

By David Lohr (http://www.crimelibrary.com/about/authors/lohr/index.html) July 10, 2007

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (Crime Library) — When you make your living writing true crime, you come to expect the worst out of criminals, and there's not much out there that shocks you anymore. Or so I thought. I was quickly reminded of that feeling when I found out about the case in point, where a group of thugs raped a woman and then forced her son to join in the sexual assault. I must warn you, the details of this crime are not for the faint of heart.
On June 18, at about 9 p.m., a woman was roused to a knock on her front door. When she asked who it was, a young man told her his vehicle had a flat tire. Not wanting to turn away someone in need, the woman opened her door and offered her assistance. The moment the door opened, a group of gun-wielding suspects forced their way inside. According to the police report, the group consisted of at least ten teenage boys.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/news/original/0707/florida_rape/W-Palm-Beach200.jpgWest Palm Beach Florida

Once inside, the suspects separated the woman and her 12-year-old son, neither of whom have been identified, and demanded money. The details of what happened next are sketchy; however, at some point, the teens beat the young boy and smashed a plate over his head. From there, the violence only escalated.
All ten of the suspects gang raped, sodomized and beat the woman in the presence of her son. The victim's screams only served to fuel the suspects' depraved acts. After having their fill of the mother, the suspects turned their attention to her young son, forcing him at gunpoint to have sex with her for their perverse amusement.
Next Page (http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0707/1002_florida_rape_case2.html)

Contact David Lohr (http://www.crimelibrary.com/about/authors/lohr/index.html) at crimewriter74@hughes.net (crimewriter74@hughes.net)

It makes more sense to me that it was HIS flat tire and she was trying to help. Wonder if its true?

[One2Snoop]

WOW, just WOW :eek: I'm still in shock! Glad to hear a donation fund has been set up for them...

Taken from the linked story above....

The West Palm Beach Police Department has set up a fund so donations can be made to the family. Anyone who wishes to contribute can send money to any Wachovia Bank and request that it be placed in the St. Ann's Victim's Assistance Fund.

[Mishell1383]

I never understood how a group of them can do this. How can each and every one of them be on it? Why does it seem the way to do crimes these days? in groups. Picture this scenario : hanging out at mcdonalds, skateboarding, about 10 kids. "Hey guys I'm bored, lets smoke weed!" "nah dude, lets drink beers!!" "Nah lets go steal that womans pocket book!!" "NO BETTER YET ! Lets go find a single mother and her child to rape!" All at once "YEAAAA BEST IDEA YET TOMMY!!!"

Is this how it goes down?!

[Luke Davis]

It puts no "different light on it" for me, Luke Davis. It does for me because there is a possible language problem.
This woman and her son are victims, their race or nationality is immaterial, IMO Often gangs are formed by race, possibly they were targeted because of their country of origin. This is more the rule than the exception in the USA.
Those responsible for harming them are perpetrators, their race and nationality is also immaterial...IMO. Probably.
The crimes were henious, vicious, and cruel beyond description. True.
The victims are entitled to compassion, mercy, justice, resources and support..IMO True.
The investigation needs to be thorough & exhaustive, and all of those responsible for causing this harm must be brought to justice and prosecuted to the full extent of Florida law.....IMO True.

I think it is very possible that their race or country of origin is a factor in them being chosen.

[danigirld1]

They said the two who have been captured are 14 and 16. Tonight they also said the Mother was forced at gunpoint to perform oral sex on her son.
These sick individuals forced this mother and son to become "perpetrators" in this hideous rape. This is something they might never get over. There is no way I would be able to do this with my child. I would have to tell them to kill us. The psychological damage done to this family is atrocious.

Another thing that bothered me was the neighbors. One of them said "So a lady was raped. Big deal," resident Paticiea Matlock said with disgust. "There's too much other crime happening here."

Such apathy. Why can't we send in the Natioinal Guard to clean up the area?? We should do that everywhere there are drug dealers. I am sick to death of it.

These kids are way beyond any help at all and need to be put away for life.

[No Nic]

Good questions. Tried as adults, the punishment will be hard. Then you think, can there ever be rehabilitation? If tried as adults, incarcerated with even more hardened criminals.....the cycle is vicious, producing even more vicious human beings (if that is possible).

My next thought is - did these "kids" ever have a chance? Such cruelty at such a young age. Without question, they are a menace to society. What to do?

jmo

The punishment should be hard for these "kids", if they get away with an uspeakable crime such as this with the normal slap on the wrist....what will they do next?? <shudder>

imo

[adnoid]

...I'm glad this story was brought to CL because we must get past the revulsion and confront what is happening in our world...

Yes. Kudos to all involved in getting this story out.

[frydaddy]

The above article by David Lohr was just published at CL. Check it out ! I hope David will be doing follow-ups on this story - especially about the well being of mother and son. This story is here because of all of you. Click it so it counts to the powers that be!!!! And send a message - Don't surpress the truth because it is ugly.

Thank you all for turning a head knocking day into something to be proud of.... you rock!

FH20

As do you Freshie! :beer:

[Mishell1383]

They said the two who have been captured are 14 and 16. Tonight they also said the Mother was forced at gunpoint to perform oral sex on her son.
These sick individuals forced this mother and son to become "perpetrators" in this hideous rape. This is something they might never get over. There is no way I would be able to do this with my child. I would have to tell them to kill us. The psychological damage done to this family is atrocious.

Another thing that bothered me was the neighbors. One of them said "So a lady was raped. Big deal," resident Paticiea Matlock said with disgust. "There's too much other crime happening here."

Such apathy. Why can't we send in the Natioinal Guard to clean up the area?? We should do that everywhere there are drug dealers. I am sick to death of it.

These kids are way beyond any help at all and need to be put away for life.
Oh dear god. Thats why I hope this child can get on with his life and not do anything drastic such as suicide. As well as his mother. :(

I can't pray enough for this family.:rose:

[Hey Paula]

It makes more sense to me that it was HIS flat tire and she was trying to help. Wonder if its true?

Yes, once again the story has changed, and it does make more sense that it was his car with the feigned flat tire, as it would account for this poor woman trying to assist them and for her not knowing the thugs since it wasn't her car they claimed had a flat tire.

While the other 8 thugs are still on the loose, I'm glad this Mom and her son moved out of that place, are safe and are keeping their whereabouts secret. I hope LE is protecting them and using all available methods to track the others and arrest them ASAP.

In the meantime, I hope mother and child are in counseling, as they will need this perhaps more than they need shelter. Sadly, I don't believe they can ever recover emotionally from such an unimaginable and reprehensible nightmare. I also don't believe the 10 animals who did this can ever be rehabilitated, despite their youth, as they are pure evil and are lacking in humanity.

IMO

:rose: My thoughts and prayers are with this mother and her son, as their relationship will forever be altered and scarred by this hideous and perverted atrocity.

[Mishell1383]

I agree that as horrible as this is it needs to be brought to light. Atok you are right on... There are so many bigger questions contained in this crime : How is this level of violence and rage birthed in the minds of these teenagers? Does society view the people of Dunbar village as disposible? Several years ago a police chief in a NJ city remarked that the projects were "like self cleaning ovens". A lot of outrage took place over this comment and although I personally have little doubt about the racist intent of the statement I also had to come to terms with the reality of the statement as well. When we choose to abandon people to poverty in walled off places don't we invite violence? How then are those who cannot escape manage in these walled off sections of our cities?? In this case this mother has been described as a Church going woman who was "very involved in the church" whose son has remained trouble free in this troubling neighborhood. Not such an easy task for a 12 year old surrounded by violence and general disrespect for rules and standards.
I am looking forward to learning more about Dunbar Village and what will change there. This case should be held up as an example of everything that is wrong there and in other places as well. We should use it to really explore whether , as a society, we believe in rehabilitation for criminals like these. Should we have the DP for cases other than murder? When and how do we begin to hold parents responsible for their children? Does a life of incarceration hold any redemption? What is the value of that? Questions and more questions...

Also read that Walker's grandmother is worried about being kicked out of her low income housing because the grandson stayed with her. WOW - you would think this woman would be more concerned with the true victims here!

My word for the day- UGGGGHHHHHHHHHH
Have you heard the song ghetto by Akon? This statement reminded me of that song. And your right, it holds so much truth to the subject.



Something you should know about Ghetto Lyrics

Title: Akon - Ghetto lyrics

These streets remind me of quicksand (quicksand)
When your on it you'll keep goin down (goin down)
And there's noone to hold on too
And there's noone to pull you out
You keep on fallin (falling)
And noone can here you callin
So you end up self destructing
On the corner with the tuli on the waist tight just got outta the bing doin stay time
Teeth marks on my back from the canine
Dark Memories of when there was no sunshine
Cause they said that I wouldn't make it
(I remember like yesterday)
Holdin on to what god gave me

[chorus]

Cause thats the life when ur
Living in the (ghetto)and
Eating in the (ghetto)or
Sleeping in the (ghetto) (ghetto)
Cause thats the life when ur
Living in the (ghetto)and
Eating in the (ghetto)or
Sleeping in the (ghetto, ghetto, ghetto)

[verse two]

No need to cherish luxuries (cause everythin' come and go)
Even the life that you have is borrowed
(Cause your not promised tomorrow)
So life your life as if everydays' gon be your last
Once you move forward can't go back
Best prepare to remove your past

Cause ya gotta be willin to pray
Yea There gotta be (there gotta be) a better way oh
Yea ya gotta be willing to pray
Cause there gotta be (there gotta be) a better day (ay)

Whoever said that this drama would stop today
A lot of ******s dead or locked away
Teenage Women growing up with aids

[chorus]

Cause thats the life when your
Living in the (ghetto) oh
Eating in the (ghetto) or
Sleeping in the (ghetto, ghetto)
Thats the life when ur
Living in the (ghetto)oh
Eating in the (ghetto) or
Sleeping in the (ghetto, ghetto, ghetto)

[bridge]

Gun shots every night in the (ghetto)
Crooked cops on sight in the (ghetto)
Every day is a fight in the (ghetto)
(oh oh oh oh oh) (ghetto)
Got kids to feed in the (ghetto)
Selling coke and weed in the (ghetto)
Every day somebody bleed in the (ghetto)
(oh oh oh oh oh) (ghetto)

[chorus]

Thats the life when your
Living in the (ghetto)oh
Living by the (ghetto)oh
Eating in the (ghetto, ghetto)
Thats the life when your
Living in the (ghetto)oh
Sleeping in the (ghetto)
Living in the (ghetto, ghetto, ghetto)

http://www.lyrics007.com/Akon%20Lyrics/Ghetto%20Lyrics.html

[HiLife]

The punishment should be hard for these "kids", if they get away with an uspeakable crime such as this with the normal slap on the wrist....what will they do next?? <shudder>

imo

I was still stuck on the unspeakable, present crime......10 of them participating in something that seems to only come from the depths of H3ll.

Unfortunately, you are correct. What will they do next? Society cannot sit by and allow these acts of H3ll on earth.

[danigirld1]

There is no way that these boys will ever be rehabilitated.
To restore someone to a point of good there had to be a
point of good to begin with. Where are the parents??
The children of today are raising themselves.
The kids in the ghetto have no one to teach and discipline
them because the parents are often alcoholics or drug addicts.
If that is not the case then think of this... Too often the parent
who is raising them started out very young and very alone.
When their child(ren) reach a certain age the parent wants to start
living for themselves. They can't be bothered so they are seldom home.

In the wealthier or middle class culture it is the same thing dressed up.
The parents are tired or busy with their lives so they buy junior everything
he wants to keep him company when they are gone. I have seen twelve
year olds with more money in their pocket than I had on me.
Discipline is a non existant word for the most part now days.
Chores don't pertain to the kids of today. They cultivate attitudes and
use them to manipulate the parents and other adults who are in positions
of authority.
This is the Brittany Spears/Paris Hilton age.

Don't get me wrong. I know there are alot of wonderful, loving and caring parents out there who are training and teaching their children. It is just
that the numbers of those who are not doing anything is growing at a
rapid rate.
The state did not do parents any good at all when they stepped in to tell us how we can and can't discipline our children. I know they are trying to protect the ones who are abused but they took it to the limit.
Most parents who spanked their kids were not abusive. There were generations of adults who came up with strict forms of discipline and
they not only survived but went on to become responsible, lovong adults
and were an asset to the family, the community and the world at large.

[HiLife]

St. Ann’s Catholic Church has received dozens of e-mails and phone calls from people asking where they can send money to help the woman who was raped in her home in Dunbar Village while her 12-year-old son was assaulted.

The church will accept donations, said office manager Gloria Davidson. Checks can be made payable to the Dunbar Village Victim Assistance Fund - St. Ann’s The address is:

St. Ann’s Catholic Church 310 N. Olive Avenue West Palm Beach, FL 33401

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/local_news/content/shared-blogs/palmbeach/crimeblog/

WOW, just WOW :eek: I'm still in shock! Glad to hear a donation fund has been set up for them...

Taken from the linked story above....

The West Palm Beach Police Department has set up a fund so donations can be made to the family. Anyone who wishes to contribute can send money to any Wachovia Bank and request that it be placed in the St. Ann's Victim's Assistance Fund.

Thanks for the donation information!

[Mishell1383]

There is no way that these boys will ever be rehabilitated.
To restore someone to a point of good there had to be a
point of good to begin with. Where are the parents??
The children of today are raising themselves.
The kids in the ghetto have no one to teach and discipline
them because the parents are often alcoholics or drug addicts.
If that is not the case then think of this... Too often the parent
who is raising them started out very young and very alone.
When their child(ren) reach a certain age the parent wants to start
living for themselves. They can't be bothered so they are seldom home.

In the wealthier or middle class culture it is the same thing dressed up.
The parents are tired or busy with their lives so they buy junior everything
he wants to keep him company when they are gone. I have seen twelve
year olds with more money in their pocket than I had on me.
Discipline is a non existant word for the most part now days.
Chores don't pertain to the kids of today. They cultivate attitudes and
use them to manipulate the parents and other adults who are in positions
of authority.
This is the Brittany Spears/Paris Hilton age.

Don't get me wrong. I know there are alot of wonderful, loving and caring parents out there who are training and teaching their children. It is just
that the numbers of those who are not doing anything is growing at a
rapid rate.
The state did not do parents any good at all when they stepped in to tell us how we can and can't discipline our children. I know they are trying to protect the ones who are abused but they took it to the limit.
Most parents who spanked their kids were not abusive. There were generations of adults who came up with strict forms of discipline and
they not only survived but went on to become responsible, lovong adults
and were an asset to the family, the community and the world at large.
I'm with you 110% :patriot:

[I'mSun]

The above article by David Lohr was just published at CL. Check it out ! I hope David will be doing follow-ups on this story - especially about the well being of mother and son. This story is here because of all of you. Click it so it counts to the powers that be!!!! And send a message - Don't surpress the truth because it is ugly.

Thank you all for turning a head knocking day into something to be proud of.... you rock!

FH20I'm so happy to see this story published! Thanks, FW for all your effort - it was worth it.

[Luke Davis]

<snip> Where are the parents??
<snip>A few weeks ago there was a drive by shooting in my area. A 16 yo boy was wounded. Later he and his brother would be arrested for shooting a 2 yo in the head in a drive by.

Where were their parents? The father is unknown, the mother was driving the car.

:chicken:

[HiLife]

A few weeks ago there was a drive by shooting in my area. A 16 yo boy was wounded. Later he and his brother would be arrested for shooting a 2 yo in the head in a drive by.

Where were their parents? The father is unknown, the mother was driving the car.

:chicken:

Good lord. :(

[Luke Davis]

survivor speaks (video) (http://www.wptv.com/#top)

[Luke Davis]

survivor speaks (video) (http://www.wptv.com/#top)The mother thinks she may have been singled out because she is asian.

[Luke Davis]

The mother thinks she may have been singled out because she is asian.The woman says the man said her tires were slashed.

[One2Snoop]

:( :eek:

Jul 10, 2007 9:40 PM

Dunbar Village rape victim speaks out


Reported by: Jamie Holmes
Photographed by: Eric Pasquarelli

She is 35 years old, but as she enters to speak to us, she moves as if she is far older.

She is in pain.

"I was so scared," she says.

This woman and her 12-year old son never wanted to end up in Dunbar Village.

Work was hard to find, she had a back injury, but like so many others there it was better than the street.

Right away, she was different.

Haitian born, she had raised her son as a Christian, and she tried to keep him inside, away from the temptations of Dunbar.

"I know there are bad people there. Even if I call the police, they will kill me and my son. That's why I don't stay outside, I stay in my room."

Almost instantly they were targets of crime.

The boy had his bike swiped, their car was stolen, their house broken into and ransacked.

Nothing would compare to the night of June 18-th, when there was a knock at her door and someone said her car tires had been slashed.

"When I go outside, I see I didn't have any flat tires."

When she and her son came back inside, she says ten men, their faces wrapped in T-shirts, stormed in behind them.

"The one in the front had a big gun and two others had a shotgun. I couldn't see their face. They said, 'Give us the money.' I said I didn't have any. They said, 'If you yell we kill you and your son.'"

It is then they tooK something else.

There are no ways around what happened next.

For three hours these men took total control over a mother and her son and they made them suffer.

"Some of them had sex with me twice, some of them had sex with me three times. They're beating me up. They make me do those things over and over. The man with the big gun, he put the gun inside of me. They have sex with me in the front, in my anus. I said please, I don't do that kind of stuff."

Despite the thin walls on her run-down apartment, no one heard her screams, or if they did, no one came to help.

"Nobody came for us, nobody even called the police for us. People in the next apartment, if they are talking, I can hear everything they say."

The men put the woman in her bathtub, doused her in cleaning products, and used soap to try and clean out the evidence.

Then they brought in her son who had been repeatedly beaten in his room.

What happened next, is heart-breaking as the mother is forced at gunpoint to perform oral sex on her own son.

"I tell him it doesn't matter, to save your life child, to do it. I know you love me, and I love you too, but you have to protect yourself."

When the attackers finally left, mother and son laid there together, sobbing in the bathroom.

Too scared to get up, too shocked to even call police.

Now her life is shattered.

She can't keep any food down, she can't sleep.

And despite their high profile arrest, she has no thoughts on the 16-year old and 14-year old who have been charged with the attack.

All that matters now is picking up the pieces.

Her son, who hid in his room through our interview, said nothing to us.

But as we spoke to his mother, we could hear his soft sobs coming down the hall.

"I have to try and talk to him everyday. He's so angry, he said we never should have moved to Dunbar Village."

http://www.wptv.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=d38eaab5-d429-4f9c-95b0-5410a41ed4c2

[Luke Davis]

survivor speaks (video) (http://www.wptv.com/#top)
WARNING! I posted the link while I was watching the video. It is very graphic at the end and painful to hear.

[Hey Paula]

The woman says the man said her tires were slashed.

Why does this story keep changing?

Haitian/Asian/DR? Man's car/her car/teen's car?

How would the man know which car is hers?

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Why does this story keep changing?

Haitian/Asian/DR? Man's car/her car/teen's car?

How would the man know which car is hers?

IMOI believe the woman, she was there. Some reporters are trying to dramatize something which really doesn't need it. :shrug:

[Hey Paula]

I believe the woman, she was there. Some reporters are trying to dramatize something which really doesn't need it. :shrug:

Absolutely!! There's no need for the reporters to dramatize this horrific event!!

IMO

[One2Snoop]

WARNING! I posted the link while I was watching the video. It is very graphic at the end and painful to hear.

I could barely understand her - maybe its the audio on my puter. Hope you don't mind that I posted the printed version above.

[frydaddy]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19698132/

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/07/08/s1c_DUNBAR_SCENE_0708.html

Apologies for any redundant links.

[Luke Davis]

I could barely understand her - maybe its the audio on my puter. Hope you don't mind that I posted the printed version above.The printed word is much clearer and easier to take. I doubt English is her first language but she was understandable once I got past the accent. Her pain was clear.

[Luke Davis]

court video (http://www.breitbart.tv/html/2642.html)

[Sharon]

That definately is a hard read, and you cant help but to cry over the pain involved. I personally dont think any punishment is enough for the monsters involved. They should be given the death sentence, but wont. They should be given life but they never stay for life. They are young enough to get out of prison with enough life left to do even more damage imo. I personally see no rehabilitation prospects for the perps involved. Now whether they all participated, I dont know, but cetainly the ring leaders and active followers all deserve to die imo. Thats how I feel about this crime. It was so much more than rape.....this was a crime to destroy the very heart and soul of a mother son relationship. I see no chance of easily going forward from this crime for the son, it will be life long scaring. Im no expert though, and I hope and would love to be wrong in this regard. I would like very much for the boy to understand that what happened was not their fault, it was a life or death situation. The problem might be that the boy will be suicidal from this event. I hope they get the help that they need.

And for the record, I have been nodding my head (and crying) through everones posts, you all have had such inspirational and clever things to say about this crime. It is one of the most depraved things I have ever heard happen and it did indeed lower the bar.

[gacountry]

I agree that as horrible as this is it needs to be brought to light. Atok you are right on... There are so many bigger questions contained in this crime : How is this level of violence and rage birthed in the minds of these teenagers? Does society view the people of Dunbar village as disposible? Several years ago a police chief in a NJ city remarked that the projects were "like self cleaning ovens". A lot of outrage took place over this comment and although I personally have little doubt about the racist intent of the statement I also had to come to terms with the reality of the statement as well. When we choose to abandon people to poverty in walled off places don't we invite violence? How then are those who cannot escape manage in these walled off sections of our cities?? In this case this mother has been described as a Church going woman who was "very involved in the church" whose son has remained trouble free in this troubling neighborhood. Not such an easy task for a 12 year old surrounded by violence and general disrespect for rules and standards.
I am looking forward to learning more about Dunbar Village and what will change there. This case should be held up as an example of everything that is wrong there and in other places as well. We should use it to really explore whether , as a society, we believe in rehabilitation for criminals like these. Should we have the DP for cases other than murder? When and how do we begin to hold parents responsible for their children? Does a life of incarceration hold any redemption? What is the value of that? Questions and more questions...

Also read that Walker's grandmother is worried about being kicked out of her low income housing because the grandson stayed with her. WOW - you would think this woman would be more concerned with the true victims here!

My word for the day- UGGGGHHHHHHHHHH

Freshwater, you have heart and soul for bringing these stories to our attention. I am looking at your questions and can't help but wonder why anything like this can happen. There is evil in the world beyond belief and we as the people of this wonderful but cruel nation have to stand for good. It is an everyday thing that the victims turn into the bad guys and the bad guys are raised up in awe by the people, this is not right.
All I can do is pray for this sad case and follow along and read. We all need to have our eyes opened to what is going on in this world. This is one of the saddest cases I have read and I can only wonder and pray for a good outcome.
UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH days honey I know all about them, LOL. Come on over to the lounge for a quick fix of tranquility. Again thank you for bringing these cases to our attention and a big Thanks to David to for articles of such cases.

[al38]

Something as awful as this should get the death penalty. The perps were so young. It is scary to think - they probably won't do near enough jail time, and what will happen when they get out? I agree with a previous poster- I don't think they can be rehabilitated. Well, I don't even think they are human-This should just be a death penalty case. The rest of us should NOT have to worry about when they get out.

[Mishell1383]

The woman says the man said her tires were slashed.
The links must have changed since last night? I saw space ships and nicole richey?

[Mishell1383]

The printed word is much clearer and easier to take. I doubt English is her first language but she was understandable once I got past the accent. Her pain was clear.
I can't stop crying over this poor woman. She's so brave. The par tthat killed me was they could hear her son sobbing in the room while he hid from them. oh dear god.

[Mishell1383]

The links must have changed since last night? I saw space ships and nicole richey?
never mind Luke I don't want to see it. Reading it was bad enough. :( :mad:

[ExLiberal]

The New York Times has so far ignored the West Palm Beach atrocity. Strange, because the NYT hyped the frame-up at Duke until long after the Gang of 88 and everybody else had scrambled for the lifeboats. The NYT still refuses to print the name of the "victim" whose pack of lies caused so much trouble.

The horror in West Palm Beach has been reported by French, German, and other European news agencies.

One poster on this thread said that race should not matter in how this case is viewed or treated. I agree, but maybe it does matter to the editors of the New York Times.

[Hey Paula]

The New York Times has so far ignored the West Palm Beach atrocity. Strange, because the NYT hyped the frame-up at Duke until long after the Gang of 88 and everybody else had scrambled for the lifeboats. The NYT still refuses to print the name of the "victim" whose pack of lies caused so much trouble.

The horror in West Palm Beach has been reported by French, German, and other European news agencies.

One poster on this thread said that race should not matter in how this case is viewed or treated. I agree, but maybe it does matter to the editors of the New York Times.

I agree with you EL!

Race should never matter, but sadly it seems it is PC, for the most liberal of the media, to report white on black crimes, whether real or imagined, but remain silent and not report black on white crimes. As long as this injustice continues and prevails, the black on white crime rate will keep escalating.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

The links must have changed since last night? I saw space ships and nicole richey?

Good Morning Mishelle

The link must be to headline news. Putting "rape" in the search window will take you to the interview.

here (http://www.wptv.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=1459@wptv.dayport.com&navCatId=3)

[julianella]

I agree with you EL!

Race should never matter, but sadly it seems it is PC, for the most liberal of the media, to report white on black crimes, whether real or imagined, but remain silent and not report black on white crimes. As long as this injustice continues and prevails, the black on white crime rate will keep escalating.

IMO

I agree 100% with this!!!!

[ExLiberal]

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/nationworld/articles/8426547.html

The above link is new this morning. It contains further details on what happened. The story mentions that persecution of the woman and her son began as soon as they moved into the project. I can believe that: when I taught high school, I saw quiet, polite, reserved Haitian immigrant children brutalized unmercifully by the American black kids. You can stop it in the school building, but . . .

My brother-in-law has a condo in Palm Beach, where houses on the beach block start at $25 million (unless prices have gone down since 2003). From his place, you can drive to the center of town, go across a bridge into West Palm Beach, turn right, go a few blocks, and find yourself in the midst of utter squalor.

[Luke Davis]

I agree 100% with this!!!!
I agree 102% with this!!!! :hat:

I think the keyword is should.

[Luke Davis]

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/nationworld/articles/8426547.html

The above link is new this morning. It contains further details on what happened. The story mentions that persecution of the woman and her son began as soon as they moved into the project. I can believe that: when I taught high school, I saw quiet, polite, reserved Haitian immigrant children brutalized unmercifully by the American black kids. You can stop it in the school building, but . . .

My brother-in-law has a condo in Palm Beach, where houses on the beach block start at $25 million (unless prices have gone down since 2003). From his place, you can drive to the center of town, go across a bridge into West Palm Beach, turn right, go a few blocks, and find yourself in the midst of utter squalor.

Very interesting link. Hopefully they can get a fix (ping)on the stolen cell phone.

[julianella]

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/nationworld/articles/8426547.html

The above link is new this morning. It contains further details on what happened. The story mentions that persecution of the woman and her son began as soon as they moved into the project. I can believe that: when I taught high school, I saw quiet, polite, reserved Haitian immigrant children brutalized unmercifully by the American black kids. You can stop it in the school building, but . . .

My brother-in-law has a condo in Palm Beach, where houses on the beach block start at $25 million (unless prices have gone down since 2003). From his place, you can drive to the center of town, go across a bridge into West Palm Beach, turn right, go a few blocks, and find yourself in the midst of utter squalor.


How cruel, I can't even stomach it when I read what was done to these people! I can tell you someone left a comment below the article that mentioned not wanting to pay for these boys to live in jail for the next 50 years and that would leave only one solution! I AGREE!!!

I hop ethey find the other 8 they are looking for! They should release their names or a photo let the public help find them!

[julianella]

Very interesting link. Hopefully they can get a fix (ping)on the stolen cell phone.

It is amazing how cell pings have been solving cases lately!

[Hey Paula]

This is a blak on black crime.

Black on black crimes are just as bad, yet never addressed, much less attacked by black leaders such as Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson. Black rappers' defamatory descriptive words of black women, and blatant disrespect for LE, are overlooked.

No good can ever come from turning a blind eye to wrong. If anything, the wrong will fester and catapult to do immeasurable harm, which we have sadly begun to witness.

IMO

[Atok]

People that believe they are in a marginalized segment of the culture, and feel that they are poorly treated, frequently rise up against people who they either feel are oppressing them OR they look for someone even more marginalized than themselves to torment. It's the mind of the bully. There is a pecking order in these communities and if you live in them you know what rung you are on and it's practically taught to you if you live there generationally.

In groups this mob mentality can propel crime that wouldn't otherwise have as much fever behind it.

Dunbar Village is a microcosm and it's only one of many more littered across the nation. I understand that the individual is responsible for pulling themselves into a better life. This lady was working full time, she was raising her son alone, she had come in to our country legally with a green card and was treated inhumanely, sickly, brutalized as was her child. Despite trying to stay indoors and keep to themselves. What else were they supposed to do?

A stolen bike isn't going to have anything done about it and the kid thieves know it... a stolen car.. par for the course in Dunbar Village. Theft in the community, to rampant to bother with? The police can't do anything unless something serious like a stabbing or a rape or THIS happens ? Why is there nothing preventative before this horror rains down? Nothing keeping people in check earlier. Our Juvie facilities are poorly run and over flowing and the kids there learn how to be harder criminals. Same with prisons. No one wants to take care of the teens whose own parents have let loose on society. Or whose own parents are themselves wasted lives.

You can bet there are broad segments of Florida's more wealthy residents who are not interested in paying for the rehabilitation of these hoodlums, They "earned" their money and privledge or were fortunate enough to be born into it instead of these kids' realities. Do the rich have to pay for the laziness and neglect of the poor? Or have they just purchased a blind eye so they don't have to look at the humans who live in that squalor?

You can see that the hoodlums themsleves are just abandoned humans, left to their own rules of the hood, unable to pay for rehabilitation, frequently raised by each other or poor examples for parents. How do we step in?

I have seen the "system" step in and create havoc and I have seen it step in and save lives. But it's a hodge-podge. Even a hassle to prove you deserve help, some too proud to request aid, some who expect aid to flow forever into their lives with no responsibility to do better. How do you overhaul a culture of entitlement and violence? People so far away from those living condition arbitrarily 'revamp" things, without a clue as to it's real life impact. They have no idea what it's like to wait 4 hours sitting in a Social Service office determing your eligibility and finding out there is a loop hole you drop through the cracks on.

I would like to see all of Dunbar village revamped into a model of how to make things work, but I'm dreaming. Until that day I am happy a church has reached out and gathered that mother and boy into their collective arms and found them shelter in this storm.

Two lives who had to endure great brutality before they were even touched by humanity. Not the America I want to exist, but the America that is.

[JustMyOpinion]

People that believe they are in a marginalized segment of the culture, and feel that they are poorly treated, frequently rise up against people who they either feel are oppressing them OR they look for someone even more marginalized than themselves to torment. It's the mind of the bully. There is a pecking order in these communities and if you live in them you know what rung you are on and it's practically taught to you if you live there generationally.

In groups this mob mentality can propel crime that wouldn't otherwise have as much fever behind it.

Dunbar Village is a microcosm and it's only one of many more littered across the nation. I understand that the individual is responsible for pulling themselves into a better life. This lady was working full time, she was raising her son alone, she had come in to our country legally with a green card and was treated inhumanely, sickly, brutalized as was her child. Despite trying to stay indoors and keep to themselves. What else were they supposed to do?

A stolen bike isn't going to have anything done about it and the kid thieves know it... a stolen car.. par for the course in Dunbar Village. Theft in the community, to rampant to bother with? The police can't do anything unless something serious like a stabbing or a rape or THIS happens ? Why is there nothing preventative before this horror rains down? Nothing keeping people in check earlier. Our Juvie facilities are poorly run and over flowing and the kids there learn how to be harder criminals. Same with prisons. No one wants to take care of the teens whose own parents have let loose on society. Or whose own parents are themselves wasted lives.

You can bet there are broad segments of Florida's more wealthy residents who are not interested in paying for the rehabilitation of these hoodlums, They "earned" their money and privledge or were fortunate enough to be born into it instead of these kids' realities. Do the rich have to pay for the laziness and neglect of the poor? Or have they just purchased a blind eye so they don't have to look at the humans who live in that squalor?

You can see that the hoodlums themsleves are just abandoned humans, left to their own rules of the hood, unable to pay for rehabilitation, frequently raised by each other or poor examples for parents. How do we step in?

I have seen the "system" step in and create havoc and I have seen it step in and save lives. But it's a hodge-podge. Even a hassle to prove you deserve help, some too proud to request aid, some who expect aid to flow forever into their lives with no responsibility to do better. How do you overhaul a culture of entitlement and violence? People so far away from those living condition arbitrarily 'revamp" things, without a clue as to it's real life impact. They have no idea what it's like to wait 4 hours sitting in a Social Service office determing your eligibility and finding out there is a loop hole you drop through the cracks on.

I would like to see all of Dunbar village revamped into a model of how to make things work, but I'm dreaming. Until that day I am happy a church has reached out and gathered that mother and boy into their collective arms and found them shelter in this storm.

Two lives who had to endure great brutality before they were even touched by humanity. Not the America I want to exist, but the America that is.

Hello Atok..
Excellent, thoughtful, informed post. I agree with all you stated, here.

[One2Snoop]

Excellent post Atok - ITA with everything you said.

[Luke Davis]

This is a blak on black crime.

:confused: Reportedly the woman is from Haiti and identifies herself as asian. Early reports may be in error but I believe the woman.:shrug:

[Hey Paula]

:confused: Reportedly the woman is from Haiti and identifies herself as asian. Early reports may be in error but I believe the woman.:shrug:

Luke, I believe the woman said "Haitian", not Asian. (The two words sound almost the same).

IMO

[Mishell1383]

"I tell him it doesn't matter, to save your life child, to do it. I know you love me, and I love you too, but you have to protect yourself."

When the attackers finally left, mother and son laid there together, sobbing in the bathroom.

This woman is remarkable to have had the courage to look at her son and say these words to him while there is a gun to his head and he is laying on top of her.

And in the aftermath to tell him you need to try to be a better person than them. There is still love in this world.. I know many remarkable Haitian women and know I know another.
I don't mean to nit pick on the details, but did he have to have sex with his mother or did she have to perform oral sex? Because from her statement she said she told him she loved him while she had to perform oral. So I was wondering if maybe he didn't have to rape his mother?

What happened next, is heart-breaking as the mother is forced at gunpoint to perform oral sex on her own son.

"I tell him it doesn't matter, to save your life child, to do it. I know you love me, and I love you too, but you have to protect yourself."

When the attackers finally left, mother and son laid there together, sobbing in the bathroom.

Too scared to get up, too shocked to even call police.

[Hey Paula]

Hello Atok..
Excellent, thoughtful, informed post. I agree with all you stated, here.

I agree completely!

Atok's post is an excellent one indeed!

IMO

[One2Snoop]

For those who have very little money and are trying to make a better life for themselves unfortunately they have no other alternative than to live in these conditions. I highly doubt this horrific incident will change anything for Dunbar Village seeing as how its been referred to as "Hell" for quite sometime now. For the sake and safety of the people who do live there, all I can do is ask why a city would allow such an existence?

Snipped from the linked article above....
Welcome to Dunbar Village, a place residents call hell.

Built in 1940 to house poor blacks in then-segregated West Palm Beach, Dunbar Village's 226 units sit blocks from million-dollar condos.

The public housing project's buildings are spread across 17 acres. The average rent is about $150 a month.

[Mishell1383]

For those who have very little money and are trying to make a better life for themselves unfortunately they have no other alternative than to live in these conditions. I highly doubt this horrific incident will change anything for Dunbar Village seeing as how its been referred to as "Hell" for quite sometime now. For the sake and safety of the people who do live there, all I can do is ask why a city would allow such an existence?

Snipped from the linked article above....
Thank you for this O2S! :(

[Atok]

For those who have very little money and are trying to make a better life for themselves unfortunately they have no other alternative than to live in these conditions. I highly doubt this horrific incident will change anything for Dunbar Village seeing as how its been referred to as "Hell" for quite sometime now. For the sake and safety of the people who do live there, all I can do is ask why a city would allow such an existence?

Snipped from the linked article above....

It's a public housing project which means it was created and thus should be maintained by the taxes of the citizenry. Where are the people in charge of the oversight for this community, such as security patrol, neighborhood watch, maintenance issues, rent collection? Are there any? When it was built in 1940 what was set up... anything? Or was it built to whatever codes exisited and they dumped people there and washed their hands of them? (At least they have a roof over their poor black heads...) How strict are the eviction policies?

Where do we put people that can't abide by the rules of society when the jails are full or "more dangerous criminals?" I in no way mean to infer that people forced to live in these situations are automatically people who refuse to abide by rules. I want there to be known there is a difference. But what do we do with the ones who won't?

Seems like we need a way of dealing with societal rejects before they become societies criminals. Rewarding them with room and board and free medical care doesn't seem fair to those who do follow the rules.

[Sharona]

I think their punishment should be to have their "weapon of choice" surgically removed so they can't do this to anyone else.

[imanewsjunkie]

This is a horribly disturbing story. The mother's strength and courage through this is amazing. My thoughts go out to them through their very long recovery from this brutal incident.

[Luke Davis]

Luke, I believe the woman said "Haitian", not Asian. (The two words sound almost the same).

IMOThanks Paula, from the context I took it the wrong way.

[Luke Davis]

It's a public housing project which means it was created and thus should be maintained by the taxes of the citizenry. Where are the people in charge of the oversight for this community, such as security patrol, neighborhood watch, maintenance issues, rent collection? Are there any? When it was built in 1940 what was set up... anything? Or was it built to whatever codes exisited and they dumped people there and washed their hands of them? (At least they have a roof over their poor black heads...) How strict are the eviction policies?

Where do we put people that can't abide by the rules of society when the jails are full or "more dangerous criminals?" I in no way mean to infer that people forced to live in these situations are automatically people who refuse to abide by rules. I want there to be known there is a difference. But what do we do with the ones who won't?

Seems like we need a way of dealing with societal rejects before they become societies criminals. Rewarding them with room and board and free medical care doesn't seem fair to those who do follow the rules.

Conta Costa (http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_6341090?source=most_viewed)

He dropped out of school after spending three years in seventh grade. The family lives on food stamps and recently had to pawn their television and radio, Ruby Walker said.

"I just feel like he was at the wrong place at the wrong time. ... My son is not a rapist," she said.

Ruby Walker said she herself was raped twice, at ages 7 and 12. She said that just days before the Dunbar attack, someone tried to rape her again, and "my son came to me crying and said he wouldn't ever do that to anyone."

She has had her own problems with the law—at least nine arrests on charges such as disorderly conduct, aggravated assault and battery, according to state records.

Avion Lawson was a headstrong kid, never listening to his mother, said his cousin, Cassandra Ellis.

"I knew he was bad, but I never pictured him to be that type of bad," Ellis said. She said one traumatic experience may have scarred him—watching his older sister fatally stab a boyfriend.

"It was an accident. She killed her boyfriend. They was fighting, there was a knife," Ellis said. "He was there when it happened."

———

City officials are quick to note that neither Lawson nor Walker lived at Dunbar, and say they are doing their best to make the place safe.

As quickly as overhead lights can be replaced, they are shot out, so officials are now considering bulletproof lighting.

"Isn't that quite a commentary on what the situation is there?" said City Commissioner Molly Douglas, whose district includes part of Dunbar. "Dunbar Village is a hell hole. They shouldn't have to live in fear."

More officers are hitting the streets, but "I just bow my head sometimes and think we just couldn't possibly have enough officers ever to take care of all of this," Douglas said.

Laurel Robinson, head of the city's housing authority, said that up until about four years ago, the federal government provided the city with $160,000 a year for security in public housing projects, but Congress did away with the money.

"Every family housing project in the country has suffered because of it," she said.

Snitches get stitches, they say. Or worse.

[Atok]

Conta Costa (http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_6341090?source=most_viewed)



Snitches get stitches, they say. Or worse.

Thanks for the information. It seems like $160,000 was meant to go to Dunbar and the Federal goverment cut those funds. Does this mean they cut them from a state request for federal aid? Where do the state taxes go as far as supporting blighted communities like Dunbar, I wonder? I wonder how much per year is allocated to develop any security or enforcement programs for these communities. I would also be interested in how much was allocated last year and how/what it was spent on. Bet it would be an eye opener for some local news team to get in the records of.

Maybe this case can bring out an investigative journalist to inquire about those types of things locally? Just as a segment even on "How your tax money is spent." The best way I can see for focusing on these issues in one small patch of hell at a time. With the residents mandated to assist to the best of their abilities. Most of the community block projects I have seen have come out of concerned residents deciding that they won't take it anymore and they get active for their own lives and proposition the community leaders and deeper pockets to get behind the redevelopment.

The fear is killing these people.

"I'm in by 7, I don't come out."
"Snitches get stitches."
"We never wanted to end up in Dunbar."
"Hell."
"We'll never have enough police force to fix this place."
"A woman was raped, so what! We got much worse crime here."

Something has to give... and it seems the sacrifice is innocence and humanity.

[frydaddy]

Thanks for the information. It seems like $160,000 was meant to go to Dunbar and the Federal goverment cut those funds. Does this mean they cut them from a state request for federal aid? Where do the state taxes go as far as supporting blighted communities like Dunbar, I wonder? I wonder how much per year is allocated to develop any security or enforcement programs for these communities. I would also be interested in how much was allocated last year and how/what it was spent on. Bet it would be an eye opener for some local news team to get in the records of.

Maybe this case can bring out an investigative journalist to inquire about those types of things locally? Just as a segment even on "How your tax money is spent." The best way I can see for focusing on these issues in one small patch of hell at a time. With the residents mandated to assist to the best of their abilities. Most of the community block projects I have seen have come out of concerned residents deciding that they won't take it anymore and they get active for their own lives and proposition the community leaders and deeper pockets to get behind the redevelopment.

The fear is killing these people.

"I'm in by 7, I don't come out."
"Snitches get stitches."
"We never wanted to end up in Dunbar."
"Hell."
"We'll never have enough police force to fix this place."
"A woman was raped, so what! We got much worse crime here."

Something has to give... and it seems the sacrifice is innocence and humanity.

Agree with this! And these comments are for all, just chose your post to jump in.

What would $160 large buy? Four cops working 12 hour shifts? How long before THAT causes problems? Who besides me feels like these mass housing projects are a huge mistake. Somewhere, someone decided to funnel all the poor people into a small area. Was this to make it easier to monitor them? Easier to provide more housing to them collectively, cheaper and faster? Or was it just to get them centralized AWAY from those who don't want to be bothered with them? Having so many people in such a confined space, under so much duress, without any type of regular control, what should we expect? Especially as some people's values APPEAR to be rapidly receding.

Heck, twice I've had a manifesto of sorts typed up about the many issues this story conjures up. Then I realize that with each topic, there's sub-topics. Soon I realize I have diarrhea of the mouth (fingers). The welfare system, racism, immigration, criminal justice, politics - how many am I overlooking - topics that come to mind in the background of this story. Then who qualifies for welfare, what should be changed, what positive and negative effects are there, etc. I think many of us could go on for hours if time allowed.

Just thinking out loud here, I'm pretty opinionated, but certainly not educated or objective enough on the surface to be locked in to one school of thought. While I haven't totally agreed with every word posted on this thread, I appreciate the effort and insight provided by all. Thanks for that!

[adnoid]

I think their punishment should be to have their "weapon of choice" surgically removed so they can't do this to anyone else.

While agree with you goals, I think a rusty pair of pliers would be more appropriate.

[ExLiberal]

Somewhere, someone decided to funnel all the poor people into a small area. Was this to make it easier to monitor them? Easier to provide more housing to them collectively, cheaper and faster? Or was it just to get them centralized AWAY from those who don't want to be bothered with them?

It sure seems like that, but the story is much more complicated.

The history of public housing is interesting, and not necessarily what you'd think. Unfortunately, the projects (like Dunbar) were constructed against the advice of many social scientists, by people whose vision was first one of simply "tear down the slums" and put the poor in "new" housing, without regard to the vibrancy of the old neighborhood, and after the war one of then-trendy European socialism. So over the protests of Americans who knew better, the deep thinkers in Washington hired European socialist architects to design projects. The result was high-rise monstrosities designed with, let's say, "the Polish worker" in mind: a hard-working, submissive, devout member of a social class that had for centuries been doing what the nobility ordered. Needless to say, this design did not work for Americans, black or white, and the high-rises soon became intolerable. (Google "Pruitt-Igoe" to see zillions of photographs of the famous demolition of perhaps the best example of failed public housing.)

Some of the worst social policy in American history was based on the notion that places upper West Side liberals thought looked "blighted" should be torn down and the people warehoused. There was absolutely no thought to how human beings would behave in such housing. The assumption was that the submissive poor would be grateful and live quietly and peacefully.

We see the frustration today among the European elites: "We gave them (crummy) food, (minimal) shelter, and (lousy) free medical care—why are they rioting?"

As everyone knows, many southern black people moved north during the Second World War, as good-paying jobs had opened up in the cities. Housing had to be built for them. Detroit suffered horrendous "Negro riots" after the government went back and forth on who would get to live in a huge new housing project: blacks or whites. I have forgotten the details, but they're certainly available, though you won't find them in your typical high school feel-good "social studies" text.


Hey!—"Security Guard Wanted. Dunbar Homes, West Palm Beach. $80,000 Yearly."

Any takers?

[beachgirl40]

My God, I don't even know how to put my thoughts into words. Everytime I read a little more about this atrocity, I cry again. This poor child, to be exposed to these horrible acts, at such a tender age. I fear for his mental/emotional and spiritual health. What a brave & loving mother! I have the utmost admiration for her.

As to the death penalty, these little monsters deserve a whole lot worse than lethal injection. The sad truth is the ones who were 18 are not eligible for the death penalty. The Supreme Court recently ruled that no one who committed their offense while under the age of 18 is eligible for the dp. :flamemad: (sorry do not have citation) If they can be tried as adults after committing an "adult" crime, why can't they be punished accordingly.

For mom & son: :rose: :rose: :rose:

[BeastofBears]

Stories like this make you wonder how society can ever get back to something resembling a decent way to live. From the stories of children mutilating baby animals to this, I fear for the future. How can a generation of kids be free of conscience like this? They intentionally did something horrible just to press the bounds of depravity, not to alleviate poverty or protest social injustice, but to be sick.

This is why some think its the end of the world. Too sad for words, really.

[HiLife]

Stories like this make you wonder how society can ever get back to something resembling a decent way to live. From the stories of children mutilating baby animals to this, I fear for the future. How can a generation of kids be free of conscience like this? They intentionally did something horrible just to press the bounds of depravity, not to alleviate poverty or protest social injustice, but to be sick.

This is why some think its the end of the world. Too sad for words, really.

The highlighted sentence reminded me of something I read and will never forget, right after the Oklahoma Bombing. It was a preacher, interviewed by Newsweek who expressed his feelings:

"If God doesn't come back soon, then He owes Sodom and Gomorrah a BIG apology!"

[One2Snoop]

The highlighted sentence reminded me of something I read and will never forget, right after the Oklahoma Bombing. It was a preacher, interviewed by Newsweek who expressed his feelings:

"If God doesn't come back soon, then He owes Sodom and Gomorrah a BIG apology!"

I remember that - it was Billy Graham - here's a little follow-up on that quote....

http://www.biblestudyemail.com/karmelich_daniel/Daniel_09_Part_1.htm

[HiLife]

I remember that - it was Billy Graham - here's a little follow-up on that quote....

http://www.biblestudyemail.com/karmelich_daniel/Daniel_09_Part_1.htm

Thanks for this information, O2S - had no idea. But, now that I see this, I do remember it was an unknown preacher who said it for the interview. I think the preacher Newsweek quoted must've taken it from Billy Graham and changed it a bit - lol!

Off for a more thorough read of your informative link! :read:

[One2Snoop]

Thanks for this information, O2S - had no idea. But, now that I see this, I do remember it was an unknown preacher who said it for the interview. I think the preacher Newsweek quoted must've taken it from Billy Graham and changed it a bit - lol!

Off for a more thorough read of your informative link! :read:

YW HiLife - I don't want to send this thread off-topic but I thought since you brought this quote up you might find it worthwhile to read a "little bit" of the background on it. No doubt there are mega interpretations on the net about it - but this one made the most sense to me.

Prayers for this mother and son and all those who've endured this sort of pain and anguish in their lifetime. I don't feel that my own experience will solve what they've gone thru but I do share their pain and hope they find resolve in our good lord above. :rose:

[Mishell1383]

:rose::rose: :rose:

[frydaddy]

Somewhere, someone decided to funnel all the poor people into a small area. Was this to make it easier to monitor them? Easier to provide more housing to them collectively, cheaper and faster? Or was it just to get them centralized AWAY from those who don't want to be bothered with them?

It sure seems like that, but the story is much more complicated.

The history of public housing is interesting, and not necessarily what you'd think. Unfortunately, the projects (like Dunbar) were constructed against the advice of many social scientists, by people whose vision was first one of simply "tear down the slums" and put the poor in "new" housing, without regard to the vibrancy of the old neighborhood, and after the war one of then-trendy European socialism. So over the protests of Americans who knew better, the deep thinkers in Washington hired European socialist architects to design projects. The result was high-rise monstrosities designed with, let's say, "the Polish worker" in mind: a hard-working, submissive, devout member of a social class that had for centuries been doing what the nobility ordered. Needless to say, this design did not work for Americans, black or white, and the high-rises soon became intolerable. (Google "Pruitt-Igoe" to see zillions of photographs of the famous demolition of perhaps the best example of failed public housing.)

Some of the worst social policy in American history was based on the notion that places upper West Side liberals thought looked "blighted" should be torn down and the people warehoused. There was absolutely no thought to how human beings would behave in such housing. The assumption was that the submissive poor would be grateful and live quietly and peacefully.

We see the frustration today among the European elites: "We gave them (crummy) food, (minimal) shelter, and (lousy) free medical care—why are they rioting?"

As everyone knows, many southern black people moved north during the Second World War, as good-paying jobs had opened up in the cities. Housing had to be built for them. Detroit suffered horrendous "Negro riots" after the government went back and forth on who would get to live in a huge new housing project: blacks or whites. I have forgotten the details, but they're certainly available, though you won't find them in your typical high school feel-good "social studies" text.


Hey!—"Security Guard Wanted. Dunbar Homes, West Palm Beach. $80,000 Yearly."

Any takers?

Just wanted to say thanks for the insight here, sometimes the worst human behavior can provide an opportunity for folks to educate themselves on issues outside of their box. I appreciate it!

By the way - if the nic is 100% accurate...I salute you! :patriot:

[Luke Davis]

3rd Teen Arrested in Fla. Gang Rape

Times-News (http://www.magicvalley.com/articles/2007/07/12/ap/us/d8qb6n5g0.txt)

[Hey Paula]

3rd Teen Arrested in Fla. Gang Rape

Times-News (http://www.magicvalley.com/articles/2007/07/12/ap/us/d8qb6n5g0.txt)

Thanks, Luke!

Now they need to apprehend the other 7 vile thugs.

[One2Snoop]

3rd Teen Arrested in Fla. Gang Rape

Times-News (http://www.magicvalley.com/articles/2007/07/12/ap/us/d8qb6n5g0.txt)

Thank goodness - hopefully one of the three will start naming the others.

[HiLife]

3rd Teen Arrested in Fla. Gang Rape

Times-News (http://www.magicvalley.com/articles/2007/07/12/ap/us/d8qb6n5g0.txt)

Thanks, Luke. Three down, seven to go.

It is my worst nightmare that a good portion of these thugs will be walking the streets soon.....I don't have the courage to see what the "maximum" punishment is for the offenses committed against the victim and her son.

While the details are heinous, what do they look like when dissected in a court of law? Who and how will they determine did exactly what?

[Athena]

I just emailed the local parish that has recently provided outreach/support to another crime victim, pleading with them to reach out to this mother & son.

This was really a great idea. Hopefully your plea will be heard. :rose:

I cannot imagine the mental anguish this mother and her son will suffer and they will need tremendous support and counseling! My heart certainly goes out to them and I will keep them in my prayers. My prayers have been getting longer and longer lately because of these senseless acts. :rose:

[Athena]

"I tell him it doesn't matter, to save your life child, to do it. I know you love me, and I love you too, but you have to protect yourself."

When the attackers finally left, mother and son laid there together, sobbing in the bathroom.

This woman is remarkable to have had the courage to look at her son and say these words to him while there is a gun to his head and he is laying on top of her.

And in the aftermath to tell him you need to try to be a better person than them. There is still love in this world.. I know many remarkable Haitian women and know I know another.

I am sitting here crying as I'm reading this! I couldn't bring myself to read the article but caught your post. OMG - what a courageous woman --I believe love does transcend and just reading this mother's words I believe in this case love will. Hopefully they will be OK with support and counseling. :rose:

[beachgirl40]

I just can't get this family out of my mind. The crimes committed against them are almost beyond belief.

I have read with great interest the posts regarding the life styles and poverty surrounding the alleged perpetrators. Please don't misunderstand what I am about to say. People who grow up in the type of environment where these children were raised are damaged by it. No sensible person could deny that.

Having said that, I would like to assert that poverty is no excuse. This brave and loving mother came from Haiti, an island of extreme poverty. She did her very best to protect her precious son and raise him right. My brother, sister & I grew up in extreme poverty, in east TN during the 60's & 70's. My dad was in prison for most of my childhood and a great share of my young adulthood. My mom did the best she could for us. None of us siblings has ever had serious trouble with the law. My sister was arrested once for possession of marijuana. None of us has ever physically harmed another human being or animal, for that matter. We are all grown now with families of our own. We are far from perfect, but have become responsible adults who contribute positively to society.

At some point in one's life, you must take responsibility for your own actions. One must make a choice between living a decent life, or wreaking as much havoc on our fellow humans as one can. These boys chose evil and must be punished accordingly.

Thank you for listening.

For the family. May God grant them the peace and comfort they so richly deserve. :rose: :rose: :rose:

[One2Snoop]

beachgirl40 - I agree with you and must commend you for sharing your story. I hope its an inspiration to others who may be read it. :rose:

[JustMyOpinion]

I just can't get this family out of my mind. The crimes committed against them are almost beyond belief.

I have read with great interest the posts regarding the life styles and poverty surrounding the alleged perpetrators. Please don't misunderstand what I am about to say. People who grow up in the type of environment where these children were raised are damaged by it. No sensible person could deny that.

Having said that, I would like to assert that poverty is no excuse. This brave and loving mother came from Haiti, an island of extreme poverty. She did her very best to protect her precious son and raise him right. My brother, sister & I grew up in extreme poverty, in east TN during the 60's & 70's. My dad was in prison for most of my childhood and a great share of my young adulthood. My mom did the best she could for us. None of us siblings has ever had serious trouble with the law. My sister was arrested once for possession of marijuana. None of us has ever physically harmed another human being or animal, for that matter. We are all grown now with families of our own. We are far from perfect, but have become responsible adults who contribute positively to society.

At some point in one's life, you must take responsibility for your own actions. One must make a choice between living a decent life, or wreaking as much havoc on our fellow humans as one can. These boys chose evil and must be punished accordingly.

Thank you for listening.

For the family. May God grant them the peace and comfort they so richly deserve. :rose: :rose: :rose:


I completely agree the youths must be apprehended, prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and sentenced in accordance with the henious crimes they perpetrated on their innocent and vulnerable victims. I personally think if any of these guilty parties are not apprehended or.. are ever given their liberty again, they will continue to pose a danger to society.........JMO
For me, discussing all of the circumstances which may have contributed to these teen-agers becoming apparent psychopaths has to do with prevention & intervention, and doesn't excuse these offenders or negate their responsibility by one iota. JMO

[One2Snoop]

beachgirl40 - I agree with you and must commend you for sharing your story. I hope its an inspiration to others who <may be> read it. :rose:

quoting myself to fix an error....

I hope its an inspiration to others who read it. :rose:

[Luke Davis]

Update with video (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-0713defenseattorney,0,5677928.story)

[I'mSun]

Update with video (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-0713defenseattorney,0,5677928.story)Thanks for posting the link. It is good to know that three have now been arrested for this horrible attack. I just can't agree with the attorney's opinion of the boy who he describes as a "polite young man" who continues to maintain his innocence. "Polite young man" - I really don't think so.

[Hey Paula]

Thanks for posting the link. It is good to know that three have now been arrested for this horrible attack. I just can't agree with the attorney's opinion of the boy who he describes as a "polite young man" who continues to maintain his innocence. "Polite young man" - I really don't think so.

YIKES!!!! "Polite young man"?????

IMO, this quote applies to some defense attorneys:

"The lawyer is the devil's advocate. Lawyers' profession is one of private interests, not of morality. He is paid, he pleads for his clients. Such is the logic and morality of a lawyer."

Quote by: Ion Iliescu

[ExLiberal]

As far as I knew Earth was all one planet/world and all of our home?

True. But not every inhabitant that is biologically human is a true human being. Human beings have souls (atheists, don't waste your time responding) and consciences. Animals do not. Beings in human form who rape and torture and murder and know they did wrong are still human, despicable as they may be. Beings in human form who rape and torture and murder and lose not a wink of sleep are mere animals. They are devoid of empathy—the ability to feel what others are feeling.

And humans share the planet with animals.

Notice that the reports were that Avian Lawson, the first to be arrested, "showed no remorse." Look again at the picture of him smirking in the courtroom.

My guess is that the ten monsters, though they may be able to parrot something about right and wrong, do not have a true understanding of the difference and are, in every way except purely biologically, mere animals—or mad dogs—not human beings.

[Mishell1383]

As far as I knew Earth was all one planet/world and all of our home?

True. But not every inhabitant that is biologically human is a true human being. Human beings have souls (atheists, don't waste your time responding) and consciences. Animals do not. Beings in human form who rape and torture and murder and know they did wrong are still human, despicable as they may be. Beings in human form who rape and torture and murder and lose not a wink of sleep are mere animals. They are devoid of empathy—the ability to feel what others are feeling.

And humans share the planet with animals.

Notice that the reports were that Avian Lawson, the first to be arrested, "showed no remorse." Look again at the picture of him smirking in the courtroom.

My guess is that the ten monsters, though they may be able to parrot something about right and wrong, do not have a true understanding of the difference and are, in every way except purely biologically, mere animals—or mad dogs—not human beings.

i just could not read any more,,, i don't live in the us,, and even though i live in australia,,, and we may experience the same,, i'm sorry,, but we don't,,, and this case said it all for me.. because i have a teenage son,, and reading this case made me want to vomit... what is wrong with our world,, what is wrong with your world??? this is not my world,,, i don't live there,, and is rumaj,, finds a case i will die,, but serioulsly,, what is going on,,,,,, this is just not right,, and it has to come from education,,, and what we live,,?? such a sad world
Thanks for your response EL but I was simply referring to the fact that she/he blatantly insulted The US because of a few animals. Not fair if you ask me. Every place has crime.

[ExLiberal]

Thank you for your reasoned and logical post, Sallynuts. You are aptly named.

Australia, incidentally, has had more than its share of horrendous crimes.

[Luke Davis]

Donations pour in for West Palm rape victims, but not leads

Update with video (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-flpdunbar0714nbjul14,0,4549883.story)

[Luke Davis]

this is not necessarily to the last poster,,

i just could not read any more,,, i don't live in the us,, and even though i live in australia,,, and we may experience the same,, i'm sorry,, but we don't,,, and this case said it all for me.. because i have a teenage son,, and reading this case made me want to vomit... what is wrong with our world,, what is wrong with your world??? this is not my world,,, i don't live there,, and is rumaj,, finds a case i will die,, but serioulsly,, what is going on,,,,,, this is just not right,, and it has to come from education,,, and what we live,,?? such a sad world

Hi Sally,

I am just wondering what you are doing right that we are doing so wrong?

Is it just that you have a less dense population? More homogenius? A better support system?

What would happen to a poor Haitian woman and her son should they come to Australia? Would the citizens there send thousands of dollars to help them?

Any help you can give will be appreciated.

[Luke Davis]

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/00/71/94/image_5594710.jpg

[frydaddy]

this is not necessarily to the last poster,,

i just could not read any more,,, i don't live in the us,, and even though i live in australia,,, and we may experience the same,, i'm sorry,, but we don't,,, and this case said it all for me.. because i have a teenage son,, and reading this case made me want to vomit... what is wrong with our world,, what is wrong with your world??? this is not my world,,, i don't live there,, and is rumaj,, finds a case i will die,, but serioulsly,, what is going on,,,,,, this is just not right,, and it has to come from education,,, and what we live,,?? such a sad world

Is this your world? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australians)

[frydaddy]

I didn't know we were divided into seperate worlds? As far as I knew Earth was all one planet/world and all of our home?

1st.
We are,,, maybe not worlds,, but as how humane beings behave,, yes,,, the USA,, has the worst criminal activities,, i have ever read,, now this may be based on statistics,, as in size,, which of course you are,, in our 1st world country status,, ( i hope that makes sense_)... the number 1,,, however it is still abhorrent to me,, i have never read about that in my country,,doesn't mean it hasn't happened,, but,, well it is still horrific,, here or there,, i meant no grievance,.
2nd
(atheists, don't waste your time responding) W T F,, does this have to do with anything>??? and how the F, do you know if an animal has a conscience?
do not bring religion in to this,, because it has no place,,,, it has caused enough wars in OUR WORLD... what you spout is absolute crap,, so shut the **** up,, and go and preach to someone who gives a dam,, and leave the poor animals out of it,,these human beings who did this evil thing,, did not give a dam,, and have no conscience whatsoever, so couldn't give a dam if they tried,,,, get it,,??? nothing to do with your imaginary friend.>>>

Nice post...if your goal is to give us a sampling of how these ten suspects likely speak to people. F bombs always provide a touch of class!

Fosters...Australian for beer!

[frydaddy]

http://img.coxnewsweb.com/C/00/71/94/image_5594710.jpg


Hope Imus hasn't seen these photos!

[HawaiianAngel]

:eek: http://boards.crimelibrary.com/index.phpThe father is in denial. This is not shoplifting. This is SERIOUS and there had to be hints - bad friends or something. I fully expected my oldest to wind up in jail. He never did, thank God.

The father had to know that his own son was up to something and I get really sick and tired of hearing these parents making lame excuses. :eek:

[sallynuts]

Hi Sally,

I am just wondering what you are doing right that we are doing so wrong?

Is it just that you have a less dense population? More homogenius? A better support system?

What would happen to a poor Haitian woman and her son should they come to Australia? Would the citizens there send thousands of dollars to help them?

Any help you can give will be appreciated.

Hi there,,

My country is going the same way,, we are just a little behind your, cus were younger.... I just get so sad at reading these terrible things,,, and wonder why it happens at all,, anywhere in the world, not just in your country or mine,, but everywhere..

And there doesn't seem any justice, the criminals don't get what they deserve., and innocent people pay for it..

I did not mean any offense,, to anyone, there are evil people everywhere. I just get a bit passionate is all.. and carried away

[Sharon]

Hi there,,

My country is going the same way,, we are just a little behind your, cus were younger.... I just get so sad at reading these terrible things,,, and wonder why it happens at all,, anywhere in the world, not just in your country or mine,, but everywhere..

And there doesn't seem any justice, the criminals don't get what they deserve., and innocent people pay for it..

I did not mean any offense,, to anyone, there are evil people everywhere. I just get a bit passionate is all.. and carried away

Sallynuts, I believe you meant well, and as a fellow Australian I understand that your passion for this cause took over and words just flew out. Thats a very Australian thing I think, to just talk and exadurate. Perhaps a fellow Australian would instinctively take out 50% allowing for exaduration, especially in a highly passionate discussion!

But in all seriousness, we do have our own hell hole of shame reserved primarily for our Aboriginals....and believe me child rape, wife beatings, incest, no education for the youth, alchohol, drugs etc is a daily thing. In fact pedophilia and rape are so rampent that it is beyond unusual for a female to not have been raped at leat once by the time she is a teenager. The poverty, culture of no education, drug abuse and general lawlessness really means living in hell for the inhabitants. The living conditions are abhorrent and crime is out of control.....its just that it is not a big item in the media, so we get to go on everyday with out a thought for the forgotten victims in our own country. imo

[Luke Davis]

July 15 (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/07/15/m1a_DUNBAR_SUSPECTS_0715.html)

The three teens who have been arrested grew up in places where relatives could not always shield their boys from the violence around them. Walker's mother, Ruby, said she was twice raped as a child, and attacked again while walking to a bus stop this year. In 2002, one of Lawson's sisters killed the father of her child, who relatives said had repeatedly beaten her. Taylor lived in the Dunbar Village housing project, where police were called more than 700 times in the year leading up to the rape.

All three suspects in the gang rape had had previous run-ins with police. Taylor was arrested Jan. 6 on charges of robbery and battery, accused of punching a man in the face and stealing his bicycle near CityPlace. Lawson was also among the five teens arrested in that incident after police saw them running away.

Frustration, family troubles dogged suspects in Dunbar Village rape, robbery

[Luke Davis]

Hi there,,

My country is going the same way,, we are just a little behind your, cus were younger.... I just get so sad at reading these terrible things,,, and wonder why it happens at all,, anywhere in the world, not just in your country or mine,, but everywhere..

And there doesn't seem any justice, the criminals don't get what they deserve., and innocent people pay for it..

I did not mean any offense,, to anyone, there are evil people everywhere. I just get a bit passionate is all.. and carried away

Thank you. I have heard the theory Australia is about 20 years behind the USA, hopefully, you can learn from mistakes made. It does seem that little shocks us anymore with only the most horrendous crimes getting attention. Such a shame.:rose:

[ExLiberal]

As depraved and evil as was the crime in WPB, I'm not sure the Christopher Newsom-Channon Christian case (January 2007, Tennessee) wasn't worse. Not only does it share several elements of the WPB case—home invasion, rape, torture, household chemicals—but both victims were also maimed and then murdered.

The New York Times ignored that case, too, being too busy hyping the Duke phony rape story.

[Sturgeon_Moon]

As depraved and evil as was the crime in WPB, I'm not sure the Christopher Newsom-Channon Christian case (January 2007, Tennessee) wasn't worse. Not only does it share several elements of the WPB case—home invasion, rape, torture, household chemicals—but both victims were also maimed and then murdered.

The New York Times ignored that case, too, being too busy hyping the Duke phony rape story.

I remember hearing about that case for about a week. It was covered extensively on talk radio in California. A trgic story. :rose: :rose:

[One2Snoop]

As depraved and evil as was the crime in WPB, I'm not sure the Christopher Newsom-Channon Christian case (January 2007, Tennessee) wasn't worse. Not only does it share several elements of the WPB case—home invasion, rape, torture, household chemicals—but both victims were also maimed and then murdered.

The New York Times ignored that case, too, being too busy hyping the Duke phony rape story.

I agree with you ExLiberal. Here's the link to the discussion forum if anyone's interested.....

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/forumdisplay.php?f=442

[frydaddy]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/07/16/a9a_neighbor_0716.html

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion/content/opinion/epaper/2007/07/15/a1e_cramer_commentary_0715.html

[beachgirl40]

I was glad to read that three of these little monsters had been caught. How will this last one explain away his fingerprint being found in the apt? Wonder if they will start talking against each other, or if they have already started?

Also glad to read the mother and son had moved away from the neighborhood. Just having to drive down the same streets and walk into the same rooms would be gut-wrenching. If she is hoping for anonimity, I hope she finds it. Sadly, with the way the press is nowdays, they will probably hound her.

For mother and son: :rose: :rose:

[Mishell1383]

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070719/NEWS07/70719031/0/FEATURES05

“He caused me concern that he didn’t know the court system as far as adult court and the possible penalties and the punishment that could come to him”

Maybe you should have thought about that before you performed one of the most heinous acts on two innocent human beings, I have ever heard of you little scum bag!!!!!!!!

[krystal347]

It took me most of the day to read all the posts on this thread...and I still dont know what to make of this horrible act...how humans can do this to other humans is beyond me...I read and read and try to makes sense of it and still can't...I can only pray for this woman and her son and for the entire world...I am a widowed grandmother raising two grandchildren... their mother, my daughter, was murdered...I have tried to raise them believing that most people are good...but sometimes, after reading stories like this, it gets very hard to keep saying that...even to myself...

:rose: :rose: for the mother and son...

[Mishell1383]

It took me most of the day to read all the posts on this thread...and I still dont know what to make of this horrible act...how humans can do this to other humans is beyond me...I read and read and try to makes sense of it and still can't...I can only pray for this woman and her son and for the entire world...I am a widowed grandmother raising two grandchildren... their mother, my daughter, was murdered...I have tried to raise them believing that most people are good...but sometimes, after reading stories like this, it gets very hard to keep saying that...even to myself...

:rose: :rose: for the mother and son...
Oh dear heavens Krystal! Thankgoodness they have a grandmother like you! My heart breaks for you and your grandchildren.

:rose: For your daughter
:rose: For you
:rose: And for your grandchildren

[krystal347]

Oh dear heavens Krystal! Thankgoodness they have a grandmother like you! My heart breaks for you and your grandchildren.

:rose: For your daughter
:rose: For you
:rose: And for your grandchildren


Thank you...it will be ten years Aug. 21st...a long ten years, and yet the grandchildren have made it very bearable...this is one of the reasons I dont understand people killing others...I know the hurt it causes families...too well..
Your signature is so very true, by the way...~That which that does not kill us... Only makes us stronger...

[Top Hat]

The "DEPRAVITY Bar" just keeps getting lower and lower, doesn't it? Just when you think you've heard the worst, there are new lows being set daily...

Um. This very thought of yours popped into my mind too when I commenced to read of this atrocity. Along with these new lows, there seems to be an unprecedented explosion in the rate of such crimes too.

Police are run off their feet trying to cope; the Courts are swamped by the sheer numbers of cases pending; and the prisons are all full.

Anyone care to venture a guess what the future will be like?

[dallasvic]

this is truly sick

[Its just me]

Um. This very thought of yours popped into my mind too when I commenced to read of this atrocity. Along with these new lows, there seems to be an unprecedented explosion in the rate of such crimes too.

Police are run off their feet trying to cope; the Courts are swamped by the sheer numbers of cases pending; and the prisons are all full.

Anyone care to venture a guess what the future will be like?

bump to get rid of the sick porn.

[lorettalockhorn]

Unspeakable acts trial Fla. men accused of torturing mom, son go to trial

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (AP) - Unspeakable acts happened to a woman and her young son one balmy June night in the projects. On that, everyone can agree.

As many as 10 masked teenagers terrorized the then 35-year-old Haitian immigrant and her 12-year-old son in their home. It will be up to a jury being selected this week to determine whether the assailants included two suspects whose trial begins Tuesday.

Police say Nathan Walker, now 18, and Tommy Lee Poindexter, now 20, were among the group that sexually assaulted and beat the woman and her son after barging into their apartment in a public housing complex minutes from downtown West Palm Beach.

Even defense attorneys agree this will be a tough case to win -- solid evidence, DNA, fingerprints and a co-defendant set to testify against the others.

Walker and Poindexter have pleaded not guilty to all charges, including sexual battery, kidnapping and burglary. Others are still being sought, and the investigation remains open.

Details of the crime itself are enough to make a jury emotional.

It was June 18, 2007, when police say the teens burst into the woman's apartment. Nothing but sheer terror can describe what happened next.

For three hours, the victims say, they endured horror as the mother was gang-raped and sodomized and her son beaten in another room.

Then, the mother was forced to perform oral sex on her son at gunpoint.

Afterward, they were doused with household cleansers, perhaps in a haphazard attempt to scrub the crime scene. The solutions burned the boy's eyes.

The woman would later describe how she and her son sobbed in the bathroom, too shocked to move. Then, in the dark of night, they walked a mile to the hospital because the attackers stole their phones.

Authorities say DNA evidence found on condoms inside the apartment and fingerprints identified the defendants as the culprits.

Walker and Poindexter will stand trial together, though each will have separate juries.

Two others -- now 16-year-old Avion Lawson and now 17-year-old Jakaris Taylor -- were set to stand trial in September.

However, Lawson pleaded guilty last week to all 14 charges, including sexual battery, burglary, kidnapping, grand theft and promoting sexual performance of a child.

"He's very sorry for what he did," Lawson's attorney, Bert Winkler, told a judge last week as the guilty plea was entered.

"He's taking responsibility for everything he did and is going to cooperate fully with the state and testify if called."

Lawson, like the others, faces a maximum 11 life sentences plus 50 years, according to sentencing guidelines. While the judge has broad discretion, he still faces up to 50 years in prison at the least.

Winkler did not return telephone messages or e-mails from The Associated Press. Taylor's attorney also did not return messages seeking comment. Poindexter's lawyer and prosecutors declined to talk about the case.

Walker's attorney, Robert Gershman, acknowledged all the evidence makes the trial tough to win.

"And it will be difficult to seat a jury of fair people in this case because the allegations are such that they'll hear them, and there is automatically going to be a presumption against my client, no question," Gershman said.



http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/south_florida/081709_Unspeakable_acts

[DrewBerry]

This is one of the most HORRIFIC acts of violence I've read in some time! Unspeakable. This poor woman and her son. God Bless them.
These animals should rot in prison. They are not human.

DrewB