What group are you in?

[Luke Davis]

I'm just curious after two years who believes what.

[ortiga]

Well it's 50 50 now, lol

I think you should have included the "ran into someone on the beach" option in the one about "ran away" etc....

[Luke Davis]

Well it's 50 50 now, lol

I think you should have included the "ran into someone on the beach" option in the one about "ran away" etc....Yes, I would have liked about 10 options but I think this will fit most people roughly. Of course, if someone thinks Satish murdered Natalee, they will just have to explain that.

From what I have seen it comes down to Joran or not. And if Joran, then murder, manslaughter, accident, etc.

I'm not sure who is corrupt and who is inadequate. That might be another poll.

At first, I thought there was a good chance Natalee was alive but I doubt it now.

[Chocoholic]

My choice wasn't up there! lol

I still think she's alive somewhere, until I see proof and evidence to show otherwise.

[cassidy]

I went with the "I'm not convinced". I think there are any number of possibilities of what happened to Natalee. I don't see any proof to back up any of them with absolute certainty.

[HiLife]

I had a hard time deciding between the first and second choice.

I do believe ALE and the government are both corrupt, but I lean more towards the notion that ALE (botched it and were inept) and the government (tried to put an innocent face on themselves for $$$ sake).

jmo

[JustMyOpinion]

I had a hard time deciding between the first and second choice.

I do believe ALE and the government are both corrupt, but I lean more towards the notion that ALE (botched it and were inept) and the government (tried to put an innocent face on themselves for $$$ sake).

jmo


There needed to be a choice: "None of the above", IMO. I couldn't cast a vote.

[Luke Davis]

I had a hard time deciding between the first and second choice.

I do believe ALE and the government are both corrupt, but I lean more towards the notion that ALE (botched it and were inept) and the government (tried to put an innocent face on themselves for $$$ sake).

jmoYou can vote for both, if you want. Not sure you can go back and vote again though.

I was trying to figure out the difference there. Some keep talking about Keystone Kops and I can see that. Others go with corruption and I can see that. But I have a hard time thinking ALE is corrupt and stupid.

Some people might want to vote for 3 and 4 I guess.

In the beginning, I thought it was obvious, J2K kidnaped, raped and murdered Natalee. But then I began to have doubts. The longer it goes on the more I doubt Natalee is alive. But I also doubt J2K can keep a secret either.

[~Phoenix~]

I had a hard time deciding between the first and second choice.

I do believe ALE and the government are both corrupt, but I lean more towards the notion that ALE (botched it and were inept) and the government (tried to put an innocent face on themselves for $$$ sake).

jmo

I also had a hard time deciding between the same two. I think there were at least a couple LE initially (Van der Straaten & Jacobs) that were corrupt/covering up, then AHATA became horrified that they would lose their precious reputation/their personal wealth from tourism and it all ballooned from there.

I do not believe it was premeditated murder, but things got out of hand and one or all three of them caused "something bad" to happen and because of visible and/or forensic evidence of rape or heavy battering, Natalee's body had to disappear, resulting in "no body/no case".

IMO

[fairmaiden]

I went with the "I'm not convinced". I think there are any number of possibilities of what happened to Natalee. I don't see any proof to back up any of them with absolute certainty.

I'm with you, cassidy. I find it hard to believe I'm waiting for more information, because I wonder if there IS any more information. I believe a few things could have happened also .... she died accidently .... someone else is responsible for her disappearance, etc. I often wonder if the MB kids know more about what happened to her .... did it have anything to do with their "activities" during those 5 days ?? Was there any major drug activity with them ??

I guess I'll always have so many questions, which won't be answered until there is a resolution.

JMO

[HiLife]

You can vote for both, if you want. Not sure you can go back and vote again though.

I was trying to figure out the difference there. Some keep talking about Keystone Kops and I can see that. Others go with corruption and I can see that. But I have a hard time thinking ALE is corrupt and stupid.

Some people might want to vote for 3 and 4 I guess.

In the beginning, I thought it was obvious, J2K kidnaped, raped and murdered Natalee. But then I began to have doubts. The longer it goes on the more I doubt Natalee is alive. But I also doubt J2K can keep a secret either.

Darn...I was going to try marking both, but didn't think it would work. I do believe that ALE can be BOTH stupid and corrupt. As far as J2K keeping a secret, the Kalpoes have been very wise in keeping their mouths shut. We unfortunately still don't know what they think or what has happened from their perspective. JMO

According to this Diary Entry, Joran doesn't believe Natalee drowned. :rolleyes:

4 July 2005

My head is full of mixed up emotions because I don’t know if I have to be angry, sad, laughing or crying. I just don’t know how to act anymore. I know the fact remains that I am the last person to admitt being with Natalee and I pray to god everyday that she did not go for a swim after I had left her at the beach but then they would have found her by now. That area is always full of tourists and the current is towards the beach so if she would have drowned her body would have come to shore.

[HiLife]

I also had a hard time deciding between the same two. I think there were at least a couple LE initially (Van der Straaten & Jacobs) that were corrupt/covering up, then AHATA became horrified that they would lose their precious reputation/their personal wealth from tourism and it all ballooned from there.

I do not believe it was premeditated murder, but things got out of hand and one or all three of them caused "something bad" to happen and because of visible and/or forensic evidence of rape or heavy battering, Natalee's body had to disappear, resulting in "no body/no case".

IMO

Yes, I was going to suggest this very same option - not intentional/premeditated. I don't think any ENITIRE entity is corrupt. Just a rogue few. You give good reasons above, especially AHATA cover-up.

Without resolution, it is hard to say exactly what I think happened, but to me, the LIES that have never been resolved are of utmost importance.

The LIES refute an "innocent" death. The LIES refute she ran away. The LIES refute someone else did it. The LIES refute she was dropped off somewhere else.

jmo

[Hey Paula]

I voted for #1.

I believe ALE tried to look inept to hide the corruption. Apparently, they knew what to do and how to collect evidence when they arrested John and Jones, but suddenly became the Keystone Kops when it came to collecting evidence and prosecuting J2K. Suddenly, confessions were retracted, inclpatory evidence became exculpatory evidence and obstruction of justice became fatherly advice.

IMO

[julianella]

I voted that I think he knows what happened, but I wanted to say I am not sure he murdered her! I still am thinking she may have died accidentally. I still fault him though for not telling where the body is!

[terrysdoor]

I'm with you, cassidy. I find it hard to believe I'm waiting for more information, because I wonder if there IS any more information. I believe a few things could have happened also .... she died accidently .... someone else is responsible for her disappearance, etc. I often wonder if the MB kids know more about what happened to her .... did it have anything to do with their "activities" during those 5 days ?? Was there any major drug activity with them ??

I guess I'll always have so many questions, which won't be answered until there is a resolution.

JMO

Good morning fair ......... I agree with you exactly so many unanswered questions IMO

[Hey Paula]

I voted that I think he knows what happened, but I wanted to say I am not sure he murdered her! I still am thinking she may have died accidentally. I still fault him though for not telling where the body is!

Good Morning Julia and Everyone!

I have mixed emotions about a willful murder because of what Deepak said in the polis car (might be paraphrased) "If they find the girl, you'll go to prison for 15 years". It is my understanding 15 years is the sentence for murder in Aruba. There was a time when I truly didn't think it was a willful murder, but a combination of alcohol, date drug, etc, but the more I see and read Joran, the more I believe he is capable of willful murder, if he doesn't get his way. Hiding Natalee's body, in lieu of calling for emergency assistance, is another indicator that Joran wanted Natalee, and all evidence of what he'd done, gone.

IMO

[julianella]

Good Morning Julia and Everyone!

I have mixed emotions about a willful murder because of what Deepak said in the polis car (might be paraphrased) "If they find the girl, you'll go to prison for 15 years". It is my understanding 15 years is the sentence for murder in Aruba. There was a time when I truly didn't think it was a willful murder, but a combination of alcohol, date drug, etc, but the more I see and read Joran, the more I believe he is capable of willful murder, if he doesn't get his way. Hiding Natalee's body, in lieu of calling for emergency assistance, is another indicator that Joran wanted Natalee, and all evidence of what he'd done, gone.

IMO

Maybe it was a crime of passion? maybe if was that he got angry and a crime of rage.. I don't know, I hate to think of a 17 year old (at the time) intentionally killing someone.. BUT with all the lies he is telling, I definitely think he knows what happened! I definitely think he knew where the original spot of the body was, and I do believe he had some help!

He is capable just as anyone of willful murder... I just don't know...

With all these crimes where husbands kill wives, and wives kill husbands, and children kill families and families kill children, I definitely could believe this boy killed Natalee who was pretty much nothing but a booty call to him.... Especially if she decided at the last minute to say no!

[julianella]

Here is the Group I am in

I think Natalee is dead, I think Joran knows how, and when she died. I think he was aware of where a body was. I think Natalee has not been given a fair investigation...ie the changed searches and such. I think there are others involved. I think there are member of the ALE that are corrupt. I believe there is no LE in this world that do not have at least one corrupt member!

[JustMyOpinion]

Good Morning Julia and Everyone!

I have mixed emotions about a willful murder because of what Deepak said in the polis car (might be paraphrased) "If they find the girl, you'll go to prison for 15 years". It is my understanding 15 years is the sentence for murder in Aruba. There was a time when I truly didn't think it was a willful murder, but a combination of alcohol, date drug, etc, but the more I see and read Joran, the more I believe he is capable of willful murder, if he doesn't get his way. Hiding Natalee's body, in lieu of calling for emergency assistance, is another indicator that Joran wanted Natalee, and all evidence of what he'd done, gone.

IMO

I agree with you, Hey Paula.

[Hey Paula]

I agree with you, Hey Paula.

Hi JMO!

That horrible thing Joran said in his native language recently (f that b) is further evidence, IMO, that it was willful. Who could/would say something like that if this was truly an accident?

The more Joran talks and emotes, the more he convinces me he willfully murdered Natalee.

IMO

[JustMyOpinion]

Hi JMO!

That horrible thing Joran said in his native language recently (f that b) is further evidence, IMO, that it was willful. Who could/would say something like that if this was truly an accident?

The more Joran talks and emotes, the more he convinces me he willfully murdered Natalee.

IMO

I'm in complete agreement!

[ortiga]

Hi JMO!

That horrible thing Joran said in his native language recently (f that b) is further evidence, IMO, that it was willful. Who could/would say something like that if this was truly an accident?

The more Joran talks and emotes, the more he convinces me he willfully murdered Natalee.

IMO

The common slang expression that he allegedly used was crude and offensive, but was not even in the ballpark with the mother calling the boys kidnappers, gangrapists and murderers, horrid charges all without any proof.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Just heard an announcement Amber Frey will be opening a massage parlor in Clovis today, where she lives with her husband and two children.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/06/29/ap3870271.html

I knew everyone wanted to know this.:hat:

[Hey Paula]

The common slang expression that he used was crude and offensive, but was not even in the ballpark with the mother calling the boys kidnappers, gangrapists and murderers, horrid charges all without any proof.

IMO

Neither you, nor I, have any idea of the amount of "proof", short of a videotape, Beth has that J2K had, in fact, gang raped Natalee. The confessions, later retracted, and statements made in the polis car, are indeed evidence of this, not to mention all the lies, and the suspected charges under which ALE arrested them.

I firmly believe Greta, having been on that Island with Beth, which included reviewing Beth's notes and corroborating them through various sources, interviews Greta conducted while on the Island, including the one in the vdS home, convinced Greta that indeed Beth was correct.

IMO

[ortiga]

Neither you, nor I, have any idea of the amount of "proof", short of a videotape, Beth has that J2K had, in fact, gang raped Natalee. The confessions, later retracted, and statements made in the polis car, are indeed evidence of this, not to mention all the lies, and the suspected charges under which ALE arrested them.

I firmly believe Greta, having been on that Island with Beth, which included reviewing Beth's notes and corroborating them through various sources, interviews Greta conducted while on the Island, including the one in the vdS home, convinced Greta that indeed Beth was correct.

IMO

What mother of a potential victim would withhold "proof" for more than 2 years? Has she turned her evidence over to ALE and the FBI?

Greta said that she was inclined to believe Joran; she reported that her staff heard "No she didn't" on the Dr. Phil tape; and Greta said that something must have happened to Natalee after she stayed on the beach. IIRC

IMO

[Hey Paula]

What mother of a potential victim would withhold "proof" for more than 2 years? Has she turned her evidence over to ALE and the FBI?

Greta said that she was inclined to believe Joran; she reported that her staff heard "No she didn't" on the Dr. Phil tape; and Greta said that something must have happened to Natalee after she stayed on the beach. IIRC

IMO

Beth's "proof" is meaningless if ALE isn't willing to prosecute those they know are responsible. Besides, Beth cannot disclose all she knows until/unless the "investigation" has been officially closed. Perhaps they will never close it for fear of what might come out, including the FBI file.

Despite what she said, I don't believe, for an instant, that Greta believed what Joran said in those interviews. Her panel, save Geoffrey Feiger, all changed their tune after Tacopina threatened to sue everyone. Greta is very convincing, as evidenced by she revealed she agreed with SP's verdict, after having advocated for the defense until the eleventh hour.

IMO

[ortiga]

Beth's "proof" is meaningless if ALE isn't willing to prosecute those they know are responsible. Besides, Beth cannot disclose all she knows until/unless the "investigation" has been officially closed. Perhaps they will never close it for fear of what might come out, including the FBI file.

Despite what she said, I don't believe, for an instant, that Greta believed what Joran said in those interviews. Her panel, save Geoffrey Feiger, all changed their tune after Tacopina threatened to sue everyone. Greta is very convincing, as evidenced by she revealed she agreed with SP's verdict, after having advocated for the defense until the eleventh hour.

IMO

You said "I firmly believe Greta, having been on that Island with Beth, which included reviewing Beth's notes and corroborating them through various sources, interviews Greta conducted while on the Island, including the one in the vdS home, convinced Greta that indeed Beth was correct. "

However, the things that Greta said publicly on her program are not consistent with your claim that Greta is convinced that Beth was correct.

In fact, she said just the opposite.

So are you implying that Greta was lying on her show? That she is really convinced that Beth's charges are correct, but she decided to lie to her audience?

Why would she do that?

IMO

[HiLife]

Beth's "proof" is meaningless if ALE isn't willing to prosecute those they know are responsible. Besides, Beth cannot disclose all she knows until/unless the "investigation" has been officially closed. Perhaps they will never close it for fear of what might come out, including the FBI file.

Despite what she said, I don't believe, for an instant, that Greta believed what Joran said in those interviews. Her panel, save Geoffrey Feiger, all changed their tune after Tacopina threatened to sue everyone. Greta is very convincing, as evidenced by she revealed she agreed with SP's verdict, after having advocated for the defense until the eleventh hour.

IMO

What I believe is that Greta, always knowing which side her bread is buttered on, made the "inclined to believe Joran" statement, in order to entice the Kalpoes into doing an interview with her, too.

Greta was blatantly opportunistic in her "defense" against SP (remember that older guy she would constantly spar with? Forget his name? She later began a CNN show with him and then he left? Just like Vinnie Politan and Lisa Bloom type of deal).

IIRC, Greta has later made comments about Joran in some promos, excited that Aruba might have "found something" on J2K in a few of Aruba's latest efforts at closing this case.

jmo

[Hey Paula]

What I believe is that Greta, always knowing which side her bread is buttered on, made the "inclined to believe Joran" statement, in order to entice the Kalpoes into doing an interview with her, too.

Greta was blatantly opportunistic in her "defense" against SP (remember that older guy she would constantly spar with? Forget his name? She later began a CNN show with him and then he left? Just like Vinnie Politan and Lisa Bloom type of deal).

IIRC, Greta has later made comments about Joran in some promos, excited that Aruba might have "found something" on J2K in a few of Aruba's latest efforts at closing this case.

jmo

I agree with your assessment of Greta!

Are you referring to Roger Cossack when she took the Def side for OJ Simpson and RC took the Pros' side? They hosted a show together on CNN during the trial, and I couldn't stand listening to her voice and defense of that double-murderer.

But, I stand firm in my belief that just as she convincingly advocated for the Def in Scott Peterson's case, but later revealed she personally agreed with the verdict, I believe Greta believes J2k, and particularly Joran, is responsible for Natalee's disappearance and demise.

IMO

[HiLife]

I agree with your assessment of Greta!

Are you referring to Roger Cossack when she took the Def side for OJ Simpson and RC took the Pros' side? They hosted a show together on CNN during the trial, and I couldn't stand listening to her voice and defense of that double-murderer.

But, I stand firm in my belief that just as she convincingly advocated for the Def in Scott Peterson's case, but later revealed she personally agreed with the verdict, I believe Greta believes J2k, and particularly Joran, is responsible for Natalee's disappearance and demise.

IMO

YES! (and Good morning! :) )

That was his name.....Roger Cossack. Thanks. It was driving me crazy trying to remember.

I agree that if Greta had the gumption to publicly defend SP (public sentiment was largely against him), then anything is else must be easy for her. Getting the Kalpoes on her show would be quite a coup! Probably bring in more viewers than the over-exposed Joran!

Greta's actions after she made the statement are telling as to her belief of J2K guilt.

jmo

[fairmaiden]

YES! (and Good morning! :) )

That was his name.....Roger Cossack. Thanks. It was driving me crazy trying to remember.

I agree that if Greta had the gumption to publicly defend SP (public sentiment was largely against him), then anything is else must be easy for her. Getting the Kalpoes on her show would be quite a coup! Probably bring in more viewers than the over-exposed Joran!

Greta's actions after she made the statement are telling as to her belief of J2K guilt.

jmo

Your post is interesting, HiLife. I might be mistaken, but I thought you were in the camp which thinks the Kalpoes are smart for keeping quiet ((I agree with this, by the way)). You seem to advocate them appearing on Greta's show though. Just curious .... since they were certainly a part of Joran et al, would you be inclined to believe what they say ??

JMO

[Heyes]

I also had a hard time deciding between the same two. I think there were at least a couple LE initially (Van der Straaten & Jacobs) that were corrupt/covering up, then AHATA became horrified that they would lose their precious reputation/their personal wealth from tourism and it all ballooned from there.

I do not believe it was premeditated murder, but things got out of hand and one or all three of them caused "something bad" to happen and because of visible and/or forensic evidence of rape or heavy battering, Natalee's body had to disappear, resulting in "no body/no case".

IMO

I agree with ya Pheonix. I think they set out to use, abuse and dump an unsuspecting tourist who was to board a plane the next day. Unfortunatly either by jorans bad temper or the combination of drink, the rape drug and the assault, Natalee died. Then the pimps dad came in and made sure there was no body so his sporter could never be charged in this case.

[Heyes]

Hi JMO!

That horrible thing Joran said in his native language recently (f that b) is further evidence, IMO, that it was willful. Who could/would say something like that if this was truly an accident?

The more Joran talks and emotes, the more he convinces me he willfully murdered Natalee.

IMO

I agree, I think he almost wants to tell everyone, to boast how he got away with it. He's one sick sick puppy, imo

[Luke Davis]

I agree, I think he almost wants to tell everyone, to boast how he got away with it. He's one sick sick puppy, imo
That's one reason I doubt his guilt. Two years have past and not a peep from the world's most infamous Lothario/rapist.

[HiLife]

Your post is interesting, HiLife. I might be mistaken, but I thought you were in the camp which thinks the Kalpoes are smart for keeping quiet ((I agree with this, by the way)). You seem to advocate them appearing on Greta's show though. Just curious .... since they were certainly a part of Joran et al, would you be inclined to believe what they say ??

JMO

Oh, noooo. You read me right, FM. I still believe the Kalpoes are smart in keeping quiet! I just imagined that if they were to be interviewed by Greta, her ratings would go through the roof (SHE would be the smart one, there!)

Also, yes, it would be smart for THEM to keep quiet....but who could resist watching them being interviewed? Of course, I am just as skeptical of what they would say as I am of Joran, but I would love to watch them as they talk and watch their body language: eye movements, lip licking, excessive water drinking, foot shaking, etc. (I'm sure Bill O'Reilly's Body Language Expert would do a reading, later!)

I would love to hear their take on that fateful night and see how different, or similar, their story is to Joran's.

Well, one can dream.

jmo

[Gaiar]

Im not sure exactly what I believe though the truth is theres a few coincedences that don't seem to up to. Like the Hotels security camera's just so happened not to work the night Natalee vanished. Im wondering maybe someone in the hotel was involved and she was kidnapped which had them kill her due to it becoming botched, or she was sold into the sex slave trade.

This is only my possible take on what occured.

[ArubaSteve]

I was on the island at the time the Holloway Twitties were there. One thing I believe firmly in my heart from first hand experience. If Beth did not take over the investigation from top to bottom this case either would have been solved, or way ahead of where it is today. I blame that on her. If Aruba conducted their own investigation without letting outside influences interfere with their investigation, we again would be ahead in the case. This I blame on Aruba. And to this day there is no evidence that could convict anyone of any crime, in my opinion.

[julianella]

I was on the island at the time the Holloway Twitties were there. One thing I believe firmly in my heart from first hand experience. If Beth did not take over the investigation from top to bottom this case either would have been solved, or way ahead of where it is today. I blame that on her. If Aruba conducted their own investigation without letting outside influences interfere with their investigation, we again would be ahead in the case. This I blame on Aruba. And to this day there is no evidence that could convict anyone of any crime, in my opinion.


Natalee would have been declared dead and The SG's would have been charged... case closed! Those boys would be out there lying to other unsuspecting tourists!

GOOD FOR YOU BETH!!!

[Chocoholic]

Natalee would have been declared dead and The SG's would have been charged... case closed! Those boys would be out there lying to other unsuspecting tourists!

GOOD FOR YOU BETH!!!

It's disturbing how much the Aruban legal system is underestimated by some of the posters who aren't familiar with it.

Last I heard if anything about the case has to go before a judge it will be in Curacao. Corruption can no longer be blamed.

[ArubaSteve]

I guess the Aruban jails are empty.

[Hey Paula]

I guess the Aruban jails are empty.

With their "low crime" rate, I would expect them to be. The meaningless emptiness matches the phony meaningless crime statistics.

IMO

[julianella]

It's disturbing how much the Aruban legal system is underestimated by some of the posters who aren't familiar with it.

Last I heard if anything about the case has to go before a judge it will be in Curacao. Corruption can no longer be blamed.

I guess the Aruban jails are empty.

Choco:

Before this case I can admit I had no idea how Aruba worked. And now I am not claiming to be an expert but I can tell you that I am aware of some of their ways. And I am sorry but letting those boys go, and not doing COMPLETE searches of their home while raided and IMMEDIATELY arresting the SG's IMO they were trying to pin it on them! They let the boys go free with "surveillance" which obviously the boys were aware of IMO due to PVDS and his talks with them, they changed searches to comfort the family of the primary suspect.... People with personal attachments with the suspect was involved and IMO trying to make a deal... I believe 100% had it not been for Beth right now the SG's would be serving a murder sentence!

Also where is this famous Marlon? Have the ALE investigated him? The violet beach bum who is also a thief?



Aruba Steve: Jails are empty because they don't want to charge crimes IMO!

WHo is in jail over the beheaded man found? Who is in Jail over the mutilated man found burning in the cave? Who is in jail over stolen tourist property? Who is in Jail over drug sales?

[Chocoholic]

Julianella, I respect your point of view. I still see however that regarding the Aruban laws it's still not understood that Aruba LE could only do what was within it's legal rights.

I ask again, would you rather that ALE BE corrupt and break it's own laws in order to please bht and her posse or would you rather that they follow the law and gather information legally?

If information is gained illegally it may not be admitted in court and would be useless.

I understand that you don't understand the legal system. I understand that from YPOV it may appear to be corrupt. I can see that mistakes have been made, one of which was allowing bht to have as much influence in the case as she did, imo. However, I don't see that ALE could have arrested J2K sooner or kept them in jail from day one within the boundaries of the law.

I know poor poor SGs. They were "fingered by J2K" even though they only referred to 1 person (not black) in a black T-shirt hanging around HI. It could have been anybody from the MB posse for that matter. As it was TWO SGs with black T-shirts with a history of bothering young white tourists and having been in the possession of property stolen from tourists, were actually seen at the HI that late night. Wrong place, wrong time. Sucks to be them, which I can say for pretty much all the persons and suspects in this case.

Any reason yet why the Twitty twins didn't give a 302?

[Here's Lazarus]

<snip>
raided and IMMEDIATELY arresting the SG's IMO they were trying to pin it on them!

<snip>

If ALE and the Aruban prosecutor wanted to pin anything on the security guards, or anyone else, not Beth Twitty, nor Condoleeza Rice, nor anyone on a message board could have stopped them.

[julianella]

Julianella, I respect your point of view. I still see however that regarding the Aruban laws it's still not understood that Aruba LE could only do what was within it's legal rights.

I ask again, would you rather that ALE BE corrupt and break it's own laws in order to please bht and her posse or would you rather that they follow the law and gather information legally?

If information is gained illegally it may not be admitted in court and would be useless.

I understand that you don't understand the legal system. I understand that from YPOV it may appear to be corrupt. I can see that mistakes have been made, one of which was allowing bht to have as much influence in the case as she did, imo. However, I don't see that ALE could have arrested J2K sooner or kept them in jail from day one within the boundaries of the law.

I know poor poor SGs. They were "fingered by J2K" even though they only referred to 1 person (not black) in a black T-shirt hanging around HI. It could have been anybody from the MB posse for that matter. As it was TWO SGs with black T-shirts with a history of bothering young white tourists and having been in the possession of property stolen from tourists, were actually seen at the HI that late night. Wrong place, wrong time. Sucks to be them, which I can say for pretty much all the persons and suspects in this case.

Any reason yet why the Twitty twins didn't give a 302?


Morning Choco!

First I have to say I am not convinced that the ENTIRE Aruban LE or Government are corrupt! I think there are a few that tried to help let the cat out of the bag, like whoever gave those statement to Beth, Like whoever called Dave about the "confession".

I think Dompig is hiding something! It bothers me that it is known that his BIL is a drug dealer and is still living on the beach. It bothers me that his son is a friend of one of these suspects! WHat more does he know!

VanderStratton bothers me because he played favorites in this case! I look at it this way when a person is a suspect it should not matter your personal relationship with them, they deserve to be investigated just as much as the next suspect! And that includes searches of homes! It also means no special treatment in jail like no pillows or blankie of your own like I think one of the suspects had!

I would rather the ALE do their job correctly regardless of what Beth has said and done! Don't get me wrong Choco, I have said I agree that there are some things Beth would have been better off not saying, but IMO she is and was desperate! And without being in her situation I don't know if I could hold back in what information I was told! But you never know it seems each parent is different! I can remember even Robin Dave's wife calling Joran, Deepak and Satish monsters, so IMO they were told something to think that!

I don't know thwe Twitty twins DIDN'T have 302's. It mat have been they weren't released to the public. It is my understand that ALL on the trip had a 302 but there were only a few released to the public via Joe T and JQK papers.....

[julianella]

If ALE and the Aruban prosecutor wanted to pin anything on the security guards, or anyone else, not Beth Twitty, nor Condoleeza Rice, nor anyone on a message board could have stopped them.

I believe that with the information released to Beth by someone in the investigation did prevent the charging of the guards!

[Hey Paula]

I believe that with the information released to Beth by someone in the investigation did prevent the charging of the guards!

I agree with you Julia!

Let us not forget the World was watching. Surely, ALE didn't want to add yet another injustice to the already exceedingly unjust occurring fiasco they termed an "investigation".

IMO

[JustMyOpinion]

I agree with you Julia!

Let us not forget the World was watching. Surely, ALE didn't want to add yet another injustice to the already exceedingly unjust occurring fiasco they termed an "investigation".

IMO

I agree. Due to the family's efforts & the decision by CNN to send reporters to the Island, the world was watching & listening, IMO. The SG's LAWYERS were afforded a global forum which they took advantage of to state their client's case/defense. IMO. The spotlight helped prevent a grave injustice from going further, IMO.

[julianella]

I agree with you Julia!

Let us not forget the World was watching. Surely, ALE didn't want to add yet another injustice to the already exceedingly unjust occurring fiasco they termed an "investigation".

IMO

Aruba depends on tourism to survive... IMO they could not charge the gaurds with murder especially when it is relesed that the last known people to be with her are still lying... If they are innocent why do they feel the need to continue to lie?

You are right the world was watching. And Beth was willing to tell all!

[Here's Lazarus]

I believe that with the information released to Beth by someone in the investigation did prevent the charging of the guards!

Beth was never given any witness's, or suspects' statements.

The guards were released for the same reason all the other suspects were released. There's no evidence any of them committed a crime, there's no evidence any crime was committed against Natalee by anyone.

[julianella]

Beth was never given any witness's, or suspects' statements.

The guards were released for the same reason all the other suspects were released. There's no evidence any of them committed a crime, there's no evidence any crime was committed against Natalee by anyone.

Really they what are the statements signed and unsigned posted on the internet? they seem to coinside with Jorans "book" where there are statements spoken about?

What was the reasoning for the guards arrest? the guards in this case IMO have been the ONLY ones treated like suspects! Home raided, IMMEDIATELY arrested... they were left to walk the island for weeks or months!

[Hey Paula]

I agree. Due to the family's efforts & the decision by CNN to send reporters to the Island, the world was watching & listening, IMO. The SG's LAWYERS were afforded a global forum which they took advantage of to state their client's case/defense. IMO. The spotlight helped prevent a grave injustice from going further, IMO.

Hi JMO!

ITA!

I honestly believe that had Natalee been an Island girl, there would have either been no investigation at all, or the SGs would have taken the fall.

Because Natalee was an American, the powerful and world-watching American media was stationed in Aruba, following this case and spotlightling the unfolding events. Beth couldn't save Natalee, but she saved the SGs.

IMO

[The R]

I'm just curious after two years who believes what.


I couldn't pick any of the options offered. I feel NH was a victim of a date rape drug - which when combined with the alcohol she'd already consumed - resulted in her death. I feel Joran was the main offender and the Satish bros. became involved as part of the pack. I'm not sure her death was intentional but it also could've been for sure.

Maybe I shoulda picked the not certain category....lol......:shrug:

I feel that if this had happened in the states, it would've had a different outcome and that Joran would've been indicted for manslaughter on circumstantial evidence.

This BTW is my own wildly speculative opinion of what happened/would've happened.

ALLMO,
R

[Chocoholic]

Morning Choco!

First I have to say I am not convinced that the ENTIRE Aruban LE or Government are corrupt! I think there are a few that tried to help let the cat out of the bag, like whoever gave those statement to Beth, Like whoever called Dave about the "confession".

I think Dompig is hiding something! It bothers me that it is known that his BIL is a drug dealer and is still living on the beach. It bothers me that his son is a friend of one of these suspects! WHat more does he know!

VanderStratton bothers me because he played favorites in this case! I look at it this way when a person is a suspect it should not matter your personal relationship with them, they deserve to be investigated just as much as the next suspect! And that includes searches of homes! It also means no special treatment in jail like no pillows or blankie of your own like I think one of the suspects had!

I would rather the ALE do their job correctly regardless of what Beth has said and done! Don't get me wrong Choco, I have said I agree that there are some things Beth would have been better off not saying, but IMO she is and was desperate! And without being in her situation I don't know if I could hold back in what information I was told! But you never know it seems each parent is different! I can remember even Robin Dave's wife calling Joran, Deepak and Satish monsters, so IMO they were told something to think that!

I don't know thwe Twitty twins DIDN'T have 302's. It mat have been they weren't released to the public. It is my understand that ALL on the trip had a 302 but there were only a few released to the public via Joe T and JQK papers.....

Hello Julianella!

I didn't read Dave's book of lies and fantasies. IMO it can be no more than what he built his opinion on of bht's lies.

Dompig can no longer take any legal action against any of his family members with regards to suspected criminal activity other than picking up the phone and calling the police. Dompig is retired. No matter what you think of him as a police officer, the possibility that one of his family members is a drug dealer had no bearing on Dompig's job. One cannot choose one's family members, unfortunately. Or if we do, we make some poor choices.

The twitty twins never made any statements, no 302s and it's been reported they lawyered up the moment they got back to the US.

imo

[Chocoholic]

Hi JMO!

ITA!

I honestly believe that had Natalee been an Island girl, there would have either been no investigation at all, or the SGs would have taken the fall.

Because Natalee was an American, the powerful and world-watching American media was stationed in Aruba, following this case and spotlightling the unfolding events. Beth couldn't save Natalee, but she saved the SGs.

IMO


Apparently the giggly smiley is outlawed so here it goes.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA


Thanks for the giggle.

[julianella]

Hello Julianella!

I didn't read Dave's book of lies and fantasies. IMO it can be no more than what he built his opinion on of bht's lies.

Dompig can no longer take any legal action against any of his family members with regards to suspected criminal activity other than picking up the phone and calling the police. Dompig is retired. No matter what you think of him as a police officer, the possibility that one of his family members is a drug dealer had no bearing on Dompig's job. One cannot choose one's family members, unfortunately. Or if we do, we make some poor choices.

The twitty twins never made any statements, no 302s and it's been reported they lawyered up the moment they got back to the US.

imo


Hello there Choco! I didn't read the book either. Only excerpt here and there. Or when someone linked them for explanation. Dave interests me because in the beginning he was on the ALE side he worked with them, he did search physically, he didn't say anything bad about them...UNTIL Dompig started to form that brick wall!

He was a LEO for how long.... I am sure that Boeti didn't just wake up after Dompig retired and decided sweet I can finally sell drugs. He was a known drug dealer. And while you cannot choose your family you do choose your job, and his job was to protect the innocent and keep the crime off the streets, and no matter how we spin it he failed to do so. Seems his predecessor was the same way. Turn the blind eye? What kind of power to the drug dealers on Aruba hold?

I find it hard to believe that they didn't make a statement to the FBI like the rest of the trip did. ALE have the 302's and if they Twitty twins didn't make one I am sure the ALE would have been actively pursuing them.... they haven't.

[julianella]

Hi JMO!

ITA!

I honestly believe that had Natalee been an Island girl, there would have either been no investigation at all, or the SGs would have taken the fall.

Because Natalee was an American, the powerful and world-watching American media was stationed in Aruba, following this case and spotlightling the unfolding events. Beth couldn't save Natalee, but she saved the SGs.

IMO


I agree.... just look at the man found beheaded right after Natalee went missing... was there ever a result in that case? How about the man mutilated and burning.... rumored to be solved as a suicide...LOL I think the reason Aruba has such a low crime rate is because someone in Aruba isn't reported the crimes.... Drug sales, thieves, murder, that small island seems to have their fair share of crimes......

[LadyFisher]

The common slang expression that he allegedly used was crude and offensive, but was not even in the ballpark with the mother calling the boys kidnappers, gangrapists and murderers, horrid charges all without any proof.

IMO

I still believe she is just a mother in pain and still hurting from her daughter's disappearance...she is angry, and I can certainly understand why! jmho

[LadyFisher]

I couldn't pick any of the options offered. I feel NH was a victim of a date rape drug - which when combined with the alcohol she'd already consumed - resulted in her death. I feel Joran was the main offender and the Satish bros. became involved as part of the pack. I'm not sure her death was intentional but it also could've been for sure.

Maybe I shoulda picked the not certain category....lol......:shrug:

I feel that if this had happened in the states, it would've had a different outcome and that Joran would've been indicted for manslaughter on circumstantial evidence.

This BTW is my own wildly speculative opinion of what happened/would've happened.

ALLMO,
R

My thinking is on the same wavelength as yours is! Excellent post! jmho

[Rachel Cory]

The stolen crabcage. The DJ with the boat. VdS running, sweating, running away from Greta. "No body, no case." The shoes Joran left. The computer usage. I did not vote in the poll, but I am of the opinion that she died on the beach that night. The kid was frantic and obtained help from wherever he could get it. I do not believe her death was intentional, but I feel, strongly, that she is in that cage, miles from shore. This is just my own opinion.