Scott Peterson's appeal

[Miss Bootsie]

I have to be honest, I really hate it when this is brought up. Trying to show logic when there is an illogical statement.

Have you ever heard of the ~fetal position~ The fetus is curled up into a ball inside the uterus. If it weren't we would have babies growing up out of our mouths.



http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb59/aingaelsmileys/nut.gif

ITA aingael

Waste of time, imo, because its not going to change anything.

[Miss Bootsie]

Not only that, not ONE single medical professional has publicly stated anything about this supposedly "glaring" error or anomoly. Not even Dr. March, who was on the stand. No one except some posters on the internet. The one who discovered this "exonerating" evidence said she emailed or somehow contacted Geragos and Judge D. DURING the trial about nine times with this info. They never responded and apparently Geragos couldn't find a doctor or expert to put on the stand to testify about it.

The poster surmised that they "just didn't understand" her info. (i.e. HER intrepretation of the evidence).

:rolleyes:


The poster surmised that they "just didn't understand" her info. (i.e. HER intrepretation of the evidence).;)

[ekg]

So where'd the placenta and umbilical cord go...hefty bags in the real murderer's trash?

Explain this to me...

Burglars abduct Laci. They hold her for fear of being caught. She dies, thus Conner dies. They decide to perform a crude C-section, dispose of the placenta and cord to appear as if the bodies were in the bay, they somehow simulate the bodies being in the bay, and they place the bodies separately a distance apart to also simulate their separation in a storm. Is this what you believe? Aside from the basics, that it would be nearly impossible to simulate things as they were supposedly simulated, why wouldn't burglars take Laci and Conner in tact and dump them? How would they know all this science that is being argued would be necessary to frame Scott?

You see, the problem with folks arguing against individual pieces of this case is that one argument contradicts another. When asked for the full picture of what happened, the full pictures given become much more unreasonable than the Scott did it theory. Either I'm missing something, or people are purposely carrying on these arguements for other reasons than feeling sorry for someone they believe was falsely convicted.

Hi Ya Fry...

I wanted to answer this yesterday but I only had a minute to check in.....and I was only looking to see if I was going to get any acknowledgment what so ever for taking a lot of time to reply to quite a few posts that one poster jumbled together in one long post......... but of course it hasn't been acknowledged..... I thought it was going to be a 'distraction tactic' when I took the time to search and reply,but I like to give ppl the benefit of the doubt....... atleast now I know I don't have to take the time with that kind of stuff anymore..:)

anyway..... on to you....

I'm not sure that Laci couldn't have been in a 55G drum or something and then just dumped..... I would like to talk to an expert about this, but I don't know of any..

also I have wondered if she could have been in the Albany bulb the entire time..... but again, I would need an expert to discuss that with....

I can't give you a scenario that would convince you I am right... But she doesn't have to be IN the bay for 4 months and Connor could have been born by coffin birth at the bulb or in a drum.

what I can do is tell you why I don't believe she was in bay for 4 months.... and it's also what you(g's) always seem to overlook and hardly ever address....

She had crystals on her that formed from being wet and dry over a period of time... I'm not talking about just the barnacles, but they to need to be wet and dry....

she had caffeine in her system and Connor didnt

Connor's cord was friable..... meaning it was dry and crumbly..

now...... how can all of this wetting and drying happen if they are both at the bottom of the bay? the answer is it couldn't.... so that means they would have had to have come up to the surface...but the ME testified that there was no way Connor was in the elements for every long or he would have been eaten... so how did his cord get 'friable' then?

Laci, as it has been said so many times.... was bones and some clothes.. there wasn't much 'meat' on her at all... do bones float? and if they do, would they withstand the 'perfect storm' that ripped her head,neck,leg and arms off? but it left her bra on? I don't think it's possible..

you(g's) believe Connors head deflated for the rope to pass over it and then 'reflated' so it couldn't come loose..... you believe that he was turned and churned so violently that the rope made a perfect knot around his neck, but none of that violent churning was violent enough to tear his 'jelly-like' body to pieces?

and what about the caffeine..... caffeine passes thru the placenta..... so if she ingested it Connor should have trace amounts in him.... he doesn't, why?

those items make it impossible for me to say with any certainty that she was at the bottom of the bay for 4 months.... you(g's) are willing to believe in the possibility that she was, b/c you can over-look or IYO explain away all of the CE showing they had to be in a dry environment.. or you are willing to accept the impossible...

You(g') are willing to believe that the storm was so violent that it churned her up from the bottom of the bay, and floated Connor I don't know how many ft above the water-line, over a whole bunch of rocks.. but you don't believe the same storm should have ripped his delicate body to pieces and ripped the rest of Laci's bones to pieces... Or at the very least, removed what was left of her clothing..

You(g's) are willing to believe that Laci trajectory just couldn't be tracked b/c of the violent 'once in a life storm'. ..and some how she and connor just happened to wash up a day and a mile apart...

you (g's) call anything else 'ridiculous,impossible,reaching,ignoring etc etc etc'....what you (g's) don't realize is that you are believing in just as much 'impossibilities' or 'once in a lifetime circumstances that will never be duplicated' as I or woo or aw2b are...

I can't explain where the body was kept all that time.... just as you can't explain the things I just listed..But I don't mock you or hold it againt you b/c you can't explain it either..

[woohoo]

Prelim: Det. Phil Owen

Q. Did Dr. Yip indicate if they went through the process of determining a due date for the baby?

A. Yes.

Q. What did Dr. Yip indicate to you?

A. That they -- based on her cycle, they were able to come up with a calendar date on when she was due. And then they had a follow-up with a sonogram, and based on the sonogram, they were able to come up with a due date. The two due dates were within a week apart.

Q. Okay. So going back through this, when Dr. Yip meets with Laci, they ask her when her last menstrual cycle was?

A. Correct.

Q. And from that, they were able to do some type of gestational due date?

A. Correct.

Q. Did Dr. Yip indicate to you when the due date was?

A. He said around February the 10th, I believe. Yes.

Q. So the due date is estimated February 10th?

A. Correct.

Q. And a few weeks later, do they do some type of procedure, an ultrasound, I believe you said?

A. Yes, sonogram.

Q. Sonogram? And after that, did they indicate if they were -- kept the same due date?

A. Yes. They said that the sonogram indicated the size of the baby to be close enough, within a week of the calendar, so they kept the due date as February the 10th.

Q. And do you recall when it was that that ultrasound was performed?

A. I believe it was the 24th. 9-24-02.



:shrug: Guess if they kept the same due date of the 10th, it's not so obvious they told Laci and Scott anything about the 16th.

Actually my guess would be that the doctor's testimony trumps a police detective's testimony of what a doctor said.

Do you really believe Scott just made this whole thing up? And if so to what end or benefit?

[attorneywan2be]

Who is they?

When did Laci go into labor or when did they perform the crude c-section?

Why would they try to keep Conner alive if she went into labor during a random abduction?

Where did they get the information on cutting the cord and the placenta? What was placed on Conner's end of the cord when it was cut while they were trying to keep him alive and where did it go afterwards? Chip clip that they decided to keep when disposing of Conner, those things aren't cheap, even at the dollar store.

How is it natural for them to simulate Laci being in the bay for four months, but Connor to appear as if he was in the water for a short time? Is there a "Framing for Dummies" book I am unaware of?

What did they do with Laci's head and limbs?

Did they preserve Laci's dignity by leaving her clothing on and yet get lucky that there was no blood staining on the clothes from the crude C-section, no indication that they had done any of this?

The questions regarding this nonsense are endless. How anyone can think your version is more reasonable than Scott doing this defies logic and all common sense. IMO

Who is they???

Did you forget your own post that I was responding to? you asked questions based on the theory the burglars abducted Laci..

You are saying that my theory is nonsense..so why bother asking questions?..I will not bother answering them anyway!

[woohoo]

Ah, the old "guilt by association", Skov-style. How exactly is this an appeal issue? It's not.

Actually my post was in response to another on the croton watch issue. Since we don't know what the appeal issues are, who is to say it's not?

"skov-style" - are you Danish?

[Lavindar]

Hi Ya Fry...

I wanted to answer this yesterday but I only had a minute to check in.....and I was only looking to see if I was going to get any acknowledgment what so ever for taking a lot of time to reply to quite a few posts that one poster jumbled together in one long post......... but of course it hasn't been acknowledged..... I thought it was going to be a 'distraction tactic' when I took the time to search and reply,but I like to give ppl the benefit of the doubt....... atleast now I know I don't have to take the time with that kind of stuff anymore..:)

anyway..... on to you....

I'm not sure that Laci couldn't have been in a 55G drum or something and then just dumped..... I would like to talk to an expert about this, but I don't know of any..

also I have wondered if she could have been in the Albany bulb the entire time..... but again, I would need an expert to discuss that with....I can't give you a scenario that would convince you I am right... But she doesn't have to be IN the bay for 4 months and Connor could have been born by coffin birth at the bulb or in a drum.

what I can do is tell you why I don't believe she was in bay for 4 months.... and it's also what you(g's) always seem to overlook and hardly ever address....

She had crystals on her that formed from being wet and dry over a period of time... I'm not talking about just the barnacles, but they to need to be wet and dry....

she had caffeine in her system and Connor didnt

Connor's cord was friable..... meaning it was dry and crumbly..

now...... how can all of this wetting and drying happen if they are both at the bottom of the bay? the answer is it couldn't.... so that means they would have had to have come up to the surface...but the ME testified that there was no way Connor was in the elements for every long or he would have been eaten... so how did his cord get 'friable' then?

Laci, as it has been said so many times.... was bones and some clothes.. there wasn't much 'meat' on her at all... do bones float? and if they do, would they withstand the 'perfect storm' that ripped her head,neck,leg and arms off? but it left her bra on? I don't think it's possible..
you(g's) believe Connors head deflated for the rope to pass over it and then 'reflated' so it couldn't come loose..... you believe that he was turned and churned so violently that the rope made a perfect knot around his neck, but none of that violent churning was violent enough to tear his 'jelly-like' body to pieces?
and what about the caffeine..... caffeine passes thru the placenta..... so if she ingested it Connor should have trace amounts in him.... he doesn't, why?

those items make it impossible for me to say with any certainty that she was at the bottom of the bay for 4 months.... you(g's) are willing to believe in the possibility that she was, b/c you can over-look or IYO explain away all of the CE showing they had to be in a dry environment.. or you are willing to accept the impossible...

You(g') are willing to believe that the storm was so violent that it churned her up from the bottom of the bay, and floated Connor I don't know how many ft above the water-line, over a whole bunch of rocks.. but you don't believe the same storm should have ripped his delicate body to pieces and ripped the rest of Laci's bones to pieces... Or at the very least, removed what was left of her clothing..

You(g's) are willing to believe that Laci trajectory just couldn't be tracked b/c of the violent 'once in a life storm'. ..and some how she and connor just happened to wash up a day and a mile apart...

you (g's) call anything else 'ridiculous,impossible,reaching,ignoring etc etc etc'....what you (g's) don't realize is that you are believing in just as much 'impossibilities' or 'once in a lifetime circumstances that will never be duplicated' as I or woo or aw2b are...

I can't explain where the body was kept all that time.... just as you can't explain the things I just listed..But I don't mock you or hold it againt you b/c you can't explain it either..


I have highlighted errors in your statements. I do NOT recall anyone but an NG calling it the perfect storm.

1. The Albany bulb is a piece of LAND so you are saying she was buried for the duration?

2. There is NO testimony that said the storm ripped off Laci's extremities and her head and neck. In fact the opposite was posted. Please provide a link to your source that the STORM tore her body apart.

3. The knot was by Conner's SHOULDER, not around his neck. The twine was looped one and a half times and I believe under his arm.

4. Link to Conner having no caffeine in his system.

These are just from a quick scan of your post. I am very interested in your reply.

[Lavindar]

Actually my guess would be that the doctor's testimony trumps a police detective's testimony of what a doctor said.

Do you really believe Scott just made this whole thing up? And if so to what end or benefit?

Why I believe is irrelevant. The fact that Dr. YIP HIMSELF told the detective that no change of date would occur if the adjusted date was within 6 days, and his partners also testified to the same,. That's THREE people saying no date change would have occurred. Without the medical records to look out, I would say that it was not entered as an EDC change but as a notation on the results of the ultrasound.

[Lavindar]

Ah, the old "guilt by association", Skov-style. How exactly is this an appeal issue? It's not.
I have been looking at the Renfrows and can find no link to the Renfro. In fact, she lives with an Eric Renfo - which would make her alleged link to the Renfrows even farther apart. They never lived together or even in the same city at the same time. I think it's safe to say that there is NO link between the RenfroWs and Deanna Renfro other than their names are pronounced the same.

[Lavindar]

The poster surmised that they "just didn't understand" her info. (i.e. HER intrepretation of the evidence).;)
Who is they? Geragos, the Judge? Didn't Geragos have a doctor who could have interpreted it? Or maybe the poster was NOT a doctor as was claimed. Doctors have a set language they use and most medical people use the same language. Particularly in a specialized field such as obstetrics.

[attorneywan2be]

Hi Ya Fry...

I wanted to answer this yesterday but I only had a minute to check in.....and I was only looking to see if I was going to get any acknowledgment what so ever for taking a lot of time to reply to quite a few posts that one poster jumbled together in one long post......... but of course it hasn't been acknowledged..... I thought it was going to be a 'distraction tactic' when I took the time to search and reply,but I like to give ppl the benefit of the doubt....... atleast now I know I don't have to take the time with that kind of stuff anymore..:)

anyway..... on to you....

I'm not sure that Laci couldn't have been in a 55G drum or something and then just dumped..... I would like to talk to an expert about this, but I don't know of any..

also I have wondered if she could have been in the Albany bulb the entire time..... but again, I would need an expert to discuss that with....

I can't give you a scenario that would convince you I am right... But she doesn't have to be IN the bay for 4 months and Connor could have been born by coffin birth at the bulb or in a drum.

what I can do is tell you why I don't believe she was in bay for 4 months.... and it's also what you(g's) always seem to overlook and hardly ever address....

She had crystals on her that formed from being wet and dry over a period of time... I'm not talking about just the barnacles, but they to need to be wet and dry....

she had caffeine in her system and Connor didnt

Connor's cord was friable..... meaning it was dry and crumbly..

now...... how can all of this wetting and drying happen if they are both at the bottom of the bay? the answer is it couldn't.... so that means they would have had to have come up to the surface...but the ME testified that there was no way Connor was in the elements for every long or he would have been eaten... so how did his cord get 'friable' then?

Laci, as it has been said so many times.... was bones and some clothes.. there wasn't much 'meat' on her at all... do bones float? and if they do, would they withstand the 'perfect storm' that ripped her head,neck,leg and arms off? but it left her bra on? I don't think it's possible..

you(g's) believe Connors head deflated for the rope to pass over it and then 'reflated' so it couldn't come loose..... you believe that he was turned and churned so violently that the rope made a perfect knot around his neck, but none of that violent churning was violent enough to tear his 'jelly-like' body to pieces?

and what about the caffeine..... caffeine passes thru the placenta..... so if she ingested it Connor should have trace amounts in him.... he doesn't, why?

those items make it impossible for me to say with any certainty that she was at the bottom of the bay for 4 months.... you(g's) are willing to believe in the possibility that she was, b/c you can over-look or IYO explain away all of the CE showing they had to be in a dry environment.. or you are willing to accept the impossible...

You(g') are willing to believe that the storm was so violent that it churned her up from the bottom of the bay, and floated Connor I don't know how many ft above the water-line, over a whole bunch of rocks.. but you don't believe the same storm should have ripped his delicate body to pieces and ripped the rest of Laci's bones to pieces... Or at the very least, removed what was left of her clothing..

You(g's) are willing to believe that Laci trajectory just couldn't be tracked b/c of the violent 'once in a life storm'. ..and some how she and connor just happened to wash up a day and a mile apart...

you (g's) call anything else 'ridiculous,impossible,reaching,ignoring etc etc etc'....what you (g's) don't realize is that you are believing in just as much 'impossibilities' or 'once in a lifetime circumstances that will never be duplicated' as I or woo or aw2b are...

I can't explain where the body was kept all that time.... just as you can't explain the things I just listed..But I don't mock you or hold it againt you b/c you can't explain it either..

Excellent post..:beer:

I would like to add:

-The edges of the fundus of Laci's uterus were also friable and crumbly..
-The Me testified that he could not be certain whether or not the umbilical cord was tied at one point.
-The ME tetstified that he didn't recall doing a toxicology for Conner..so he didn't testify whether there was caffeine in his blood or not..

[Wearing A Halo]

Snipped...

She had crystals on her that formed from being wet and dry over a period of time... I'm not talking about just the barnacles, but they to need to be wet and dry....

...Snipped

They were not crystals. You(ng's) believe them to be crystals and I would like to know why?

[Wearing A Halo]

Snipped...

Connor's cord was friable..... meaning it was dry and crumbly..

now...... how can all of this wetting and drying happen if they are both at the bottom of the bay? the answer is it couldn't.... so that means they would have had to have come up to the surface...but the ME testified that there was no way Connor was in the elements for every long or he would have been eaten... so how did his cord get 'friable' then?

...Snipped.

The 'cord' was torn; what was left was breaking apart. This in not exclusive to dry conditions. I want to know where you(ng's) get this "dry" definition.

Friable is an adjective describing the condition of the 'cord.'

[attorneywan2be]

I have to be honest, I really hate it when this is brought up. Trying to show logic when there is an illogical statement.

Have you ever heard of the ~fetal position~ The fetus is curled up into a ball inside the uterus. If it weren't we would have babies growing up out of our mouths.



http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb59/aingaelsmileys/nut.gif

I think she was referring to the crown-rump length being 32 centimeters ..the crown-heel length was 48 centimeters.. the uterus was 23 centimeters..

[enlightenme]

Maybe this is where some are getting the idea that Laci saw the boat at the warehouse:

Geragos' opening statement....

He purchased this boat which, by the way, they say he didn't tell anybody about. There is a friend who knew about the boat. One of the reasons they didn't tell Ron is they specifically were going to tell Ron on Christmas morning, because Ron was an avid fisherman. And this idea that Laci didn't know about the boat, they know better than that. They know that there is a witness, and that witness will tell you that Laci was at the warehouse on December 20th. She was there at the warehouse on December 20th had seen the boat, was in the boat, and then went from that location because she couldn't, Mr. Distaso accurately, on one point yesterday, indicated you couldn't get to the bathroom in the back of the warehouse, because it's stacked up with the fertilizer. She was worried about getting anywhere near that liquid fertilizer, so she went next door to use the bathroom in one of the other warehouses. And a woman there saw her and talked to her.

In the boat. Ha! Of course MG's opening statement is NOT testimony. It's to explain what the evidence will show in the case. The evidence didn't even remotely show what he promised here. In many other places of his opening also, btw.

[caphill]

I have to be honest, I really hate it when this is brought up. Trying to show logic when there is an illogical statement.

Have you ever heard of the ~fetal position~ The fetus is curled up into a ball inside the uterus. If it weren't we would have babies growing up out of our mouths.



http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb59/aingaelsmileys/nut.gif



Do you understand crown to rump measurements of fetus? Dr. Peterson CTR measurement was 32 centimeters. That is a measurement head to end of spine that wouldn't change whether the fetus is measured in a fetal position or stretched out. IIRC, the crown to heel measurement of Conner was around 19 inches.

The CTR measurement of 32 centimeters equals around 12.5 inches. Laci's uterus was 23 centeimeters which equals around 9 inches. Anyone up to the challenge to explain how a fetus measuring 32 centimeters in fetal position was contained in uterus that was 23 centimeters?

[Wearing A Halo]

Snipped...

you (g's) call anything else 'ridiculous,impossible,reaching,ignoring etc etc etc'....what you (g's) don't realize is that you are believing in just as much 'impossibilities' or 'once in a lifetime circumstances that will never be duplicated' as I or woo or aw2b are...

...Snipped

Well it is a good thing that you (EKG) are speaking for woo and aw2b. AW2B already stated that you (EKG) have a great post. What you(ng's) have is the "belief" in "impossibilities"; that much is true.

I(g's) know what is possible, probable, plausible to a reasonable certainty (beyond a reasonable doubt) that DRISP is responsible for the murders of Laci and Connor.

[Miss Bootsie]

Excellent post..:beer:

I would like to add:

-The edges of the fundus of Laci's uterus were also friable and crumbly..
-The Me testified that he could not be certain whether or not the umbilical cord was tied at one point.
-The ME tetstified that he didn't recall doing a toxicology for Conner..so he didn't testify whether there was caffeine in his blood or not..

Has there not been a reasonable, common sense explanation provided to you, of why the words friable and crumbly were used to describe the edges of the Uterus and what remained of Conner's naval?

Dr. Peterson was describing what he saw at the time he performed the examination of both bodies.
Both bodies were discovered on the shore in the warm month of April.

The bodies remained on the shore for a period of time after they were discovered by a civilian. The bodies had to be transported to the Contra Costa County Morgue.
The bodies didn't go directly to Dr. Peterson.
He was not there when the bodies arrived.
X-rays had been taken before he arrived.

How many hours are we talking about here that would give the edges of the fundus and the naval time to dry out?

I'm sure you have had a skinned knee.
After submerging the knee in water when taking a bath or when you were swimming - How long did it take that abraded knee to dry out?
How did the abraded area appear when it dried out.
Was the scabbing and skin in the abraded area not friable and crumbly?



Do you agree the abraded knee dried out rather quickly once it was out of the water and exposed to air?

Please explain to me why this was not a reasonable explanation when first presented to you, and why you ignored it, and are now using "crumbly and friable" again to try and make your point.

Do you think the Jury was unable to hear the evidence and apply their common sense and life experiences?

[Mysteri]

Maybe this is where some are getting the idea that Laci saw the boat at the warehouse:

Geragos' opening statement....

He purchased this boat which, by the way, they say he didn't tell anybody about. There is a friend who knew about the boat. One of the reasons they didn't tell Ron is they specifically were going to tell Ron on Christmas morning, because Ron was an avid fisherman. And this idea that Laci didn't know about the boat, they know better than that. They know that there is a witness, and that witness will tell you that Laci was at the warehouse on December 20th. She was there at the warehouse on December 20th had seen the boat, was in the boat, and then went from that location because she couldn't, Mr. Distaso accurately, on one point yesterday, indicated you couldn't get to the bathroom in the back of the warehouse, because it's stacked up with the fertilizer. She was worried about getting anywhere near that liquid fertilizer, so she went next door to use the bathroom in one of the other warehouses. And a woman there saw her and talked to her.

In the boat. Ha! Of course MG's opening statement is NOT testimony. It's to explain what the evidence will show in the case. The evidence didn't even remotely show what he promised here. In many other places of his opening also, btw.


Very true ! The woman at the warehouse didn't mention Laci was in the boat or ANY of that codswallop. Someone on the defense team actually tried to get us to swallow that the boat was a gift for Ron ! A surprize pressie from Laci !!
Thus this will have no effect at all on an appeal.


imo

[attorneywan2be]

Maybe this is where some are getting the idea that Laci saw the boat at the warehouse:

Geragos' opening statement....

He purchased this boat which, by the way, they say he didn't tell anybody about. There is a friend who knew about the boat. One of the reasons they didn't tell Ron is they specifically were going to tell Ron on Christmas morning, because Ron was an avid fisherman. And this idea that Laci didn't know about the boat, they know better than that. They know that there is a witness, and that witness will tell you that Laci was at the warehouse on December 20th. She was there at the warehouse on December 20th had seen the boat, was in the boat, and then went from that location because she couldn't, Mr. Distaso accurately, on one point yesterday, indicated you couldn't get to the bathroom in the back of the warehouse, because it's stacked up with the fertilizer. She was worried about getting anywhere near that liquid fertilizer, so she went next door to use the bathroom in one of the other warehouses. And a woman there saw her and talked to her.

In the boat. Ha! Of course MG's opening statement is NOT testimony. It's to explain what the evidence will show in the case. The evidence didn't even remotely show what he promised here. In many other places of his opening also, btw.

Not just Geragos opening statement..as I said before, IMO, it is a fact that Laci knew about the boat..why? because it is an evidence that was not refuted by the prosecution ..the burden of proof is on the prosecution..Scott stated that Laci knew about the boatn (this is evidence)..there was ZERO evidence to refute Scott's statement, in fact, there is corroborating evidence that supports his statements, the witness who told the police that Laci was at the complex on Dec 20th..= it is a fact.

From Grogan's testimony:

Mark Geragos: Okay. Now, Miss Fladager had asked you on direct specifically about was giving you those questions about who knew about the boat, kind of one the things that raised your suspicion. And you said, well, the, I think, if I remember your testimony, that specifically only Scott and possibly Laci knew about the boat; is that correct?
Craig Grogan: Yes.
Mark Geragos: And what did you base the fact that Laci knew about the boat on, evidence?
Craig Grogan: Based on his statement, and because Rosemary Ruiz said that Laci Peterson had been over in the industrial complex, and had come into her unit and used her rest room.
Mark Geragos: And that was when?
Craig Grogan: December 20th.
Mark Geragos: That would have been the Friday before, Friday before Laci disappeared, correct?
Craig Grogan: Correct.
Mark Geragos: And so when you made the statement that potentially Laci knew about the boat, it was based on your interview that Laci had been there and had used the bathroom at this place, this Adventures in Advertising?
Craig Grogan: Correct.

[caphill]

Why I believe is irrelevant. The fact that Dr. YIP HIMSELF told the detective that no change of date would occur if the adjusted date was within 6 days, and his partners also testified to the same,. That's THREE people saying no date change would have occurred. Without the medical records to look out, I would say that it was not entered as an EDC change but as a notation on the results of the ultrasound.



Link to where Dr. Yip told a detective that he didn't change the medical chart to show a 2-16-03.

If you go to the SII site and click on the States exhibits, you can see with your own eyes what the medical chart shows. IIRC, the exhibit is #63.

If anyone took the time to look at the copy of the medical chart, it would put this argument to bed and put a stop unfounded statements of what is or is not on the charts.

[Lavindar]

Do you understand crown to rump measurements of fetus? Dr. Peterson CTR measurement was 32 centimeters. That is a measurement head to end of spine that wouldn't change whether the fetus is measured in a fetal position or stretched out. IIRC, the crown to heel measurement of Conner was around 19 inches.

The CTR measurement of 32 centimeters equals around 12.5 inches. Laci's uterus was 23 centeimeters which equals around 9 inches. Anyone up to the challenge to explain how a fetus measuring 32 centimeters in fetal position was contained in uterus that was 23 centimeters?


The crown to rump measurement would not change, HOWEVER the baby is not in the womb in CROWN TO RUMP. The baby is folded up so to speak. Look at the pictures I provided earlier. The head is down near the chest so the length of the uterus need only be as long as the folded over head. You must think that people can't think or don't know anatomy, The Crown rump measurement taken by Dr. Peterson would have been of a body lying flat on an examinging table, not in a fetal position in the uterus. Even DR. GALLOWAY said that an accurate crown rump measurement would be difficult as the body was easily stretched out as it was "mushy". Obviously you not only do not provide links, but you don't read the ones that are provided.

Thanks to your friend AW2B for doing the work for you.

[Mysteri]

Ah, the old "guilt by association", Skov-style. How exactly is this an appeal issue? It's not.

Just as importantly, not even a vague connexion was ever established between the Lacy Peterson case and some beat-up old relic of junk.

imo

;)

[Lavindar]

Link to where Dr. Yip told a detective that he didn't change the medical chart to show a 2-16-03.

If you go to the SII site and click on the States exhibits, you can see with your own eyes what the medical chart shows. IIRC, the exhibit is #63.

If anyone took the time to look at the copy of the medical chart, it would put this argument to bed and put a stop unfounded statements of what is or is not on the charts.

I already posted it - TWICE I believe

[Mysteri]

Link to where Dr. Yip told a detective that he didn't change the medical chart to show a 2-16-03.

If you go to the SII site and click on the States exhibits, you can see with your own eyes what the medical chart shows. IIRC, the exhibit is #63.

If anyone took the time to look at the copy of the medical chart, it would put this argument to bed and put a stop unfounded statements of what is or is not on the charts.

How can you say that, please?
The SII has never been established as a reliable source of zilch.
documents can be doctored, easily online and so much of what was posted over there has been shot full of holes in the past.

At any rate, it has no bearing on an appeal. Babies aren't machines nor robotic. Birth dates fluctuate wildly.



TIA


imo

[Lavindar]

Link to where Dr. Yip told a detective that he didn't change the medical chart to show a 2-16-03.

If you go to the SII site and click on the States exhibits, you can see with your own eyes what the medical chart shows. IIRC, the exhibit is #63.

If anyone took the time to look at the copy of the medical chart, it would put this argument to bed and put a stop unfounded statements of what is or is not on the charts.

Frydaddy also posts the testimony in post 3243

[Lavindar]

Originally Posted by caphill
Link to where Dr. Yip told a detective that he didn't change the medical chart to show a 2-16-03.

If you go to the SII site and click on the States exhibits, you can see with your own eyes what the medical chart shows. IIRC, the exhibit is #63.

If anyone took the time to look at the copy of the medical chart, it would put this argument to bed and put a stop unfounded statements of what is or is not on the charts.




Is that why, every link to exhibits that I click on comes up with
"not found"? Seems Marlene only wants her friends to have that information. I also want to know WHERE she got her informaiton. She was only a spectator in the courtroom. Did she take digital pictures? She was not a party to the trial, other than a VERY biased observor. Or was she one of Geragos's "secret" sources of leaks to the MEDIA that people like to claim convicted Scott?

[Mysteri]

I already posted it - TWICE I believe


I saw it ! Wonder WHO doctored/altered that document !?? Doesn't take much pondering to conclude WHO felt it neccessary.

Thanks for the links !


imo

[adnoid]

...The SII has never been established as a reliable source of zilch...

On the contrary, I consider it my preeminent source of not just zilch, but also zip, nothing and nada!

[woohoo]

I woke up this morning and a light bulb went off. Caphill posts that WE should provide link while never providing any - yet AW2B jumps in and provides links for Caphill. I seem to recall a poster several montha ago who was banned for this same thing - not posting a link while others posted them for her

I fail to see the reasoning behind your scenario. If a link was posted, regardless by whom, the information was obtained.

What is the purpose of requesting a link? To acquire information, prove or disprove a fact, testing a person's "search" abilities, or just getting someone banned? If the information is there - it's there.

[attorneywan2be]

Snip
Please explain to me why this was not a reasonable explanation when first presented to you, and why you ignored it, and are now using "crumbly and friable" again to try and make your point.

Snip




Unbelievable!!!!..you're the one who ignored my post where I explained that the conditions when her body was found would not have allowed for the edges of her uterus to be friable and crumbly, the medical definition of "friable" is (which I already posted before) :

1. Easily reduced to powder.

2. In bacteriology, denoting a dry and brittle culture falling into powder when touched or shaken

Here is the post you ignored (see post # 1445 on this thread)

The autopsy was done few hours after the body was found..her body was found partially submerged in the water...so IMO, had she been in the bay for about 4 months, the edges of the uterus would NOT have been friable and crumbly.. in addition, it is not warm in Richmond..on April 14th 2003 the temperature ranged from 46 F to 60 F.. the humidity ranged from 55%to 93% and it was an overcast day, in fact, there was some light rain in the morning for about an hour ...so IMO, there was no time for the edges of the uterus to have dried out to the point of being friable and crumbly which could be reduced to powder! on the other hand, if she was placed there after the edges of her uterus had already been dried out, friable and crumbly.. that would explain why the ME found them that way...

David Harris: Now, is the, as the officers were, when you were first there, was the body actually awash in the water?
Alena Gonzalez: She was about halfway submerged in the water. Awash and came up, I don't understand your question.
David Harris: Try go through it a little bit different. Was the body actually touching the water?
Alena Gonzalez: Yes.
David Harris: Was the water coming up over the body, or was the body just floating when you first observed it?
Alena Gonzalez: We think that she was kind of,
Judge Delucchi: No, just,
Mark Geragos: Objection.
David Harris: What you saw. What did you see?
Alena Gonzalez: I saw that she was already there in the water, and the water was splashing up on her like some,
David Harris: This particular photograph there, People's Number 104, was that after the police had come out, and so you saw the body, you went made the call, fire department comes out, police department comes out, somebody takes this picture?
Alena Gonzalez: Yes.
David Harris: Is the water starting to recede, or the tide's going out by the time this photograph is taken?
Alena Gonzalez: Considerably.
David Harris: Now the, did you stay there until the police came and took a statement from you?
Alena Gonzalez: Yes.
David Harris: In fact, there was a taped statement by one of the officers that day?

[Lavindar]

Link to where Dr. Yip told a detective that he didn't change the medical chart to show a 2-16-03.

If you go to the SII site and click on the States exhibits, you can see with your own eyes what the medical chart shows. IIRC, the exhibit is #63.

If anyone took the time to look at the copy of the medical chart, it would put this argument to bed and put a stop unfounded statements of what is or is not on the charts.

No one disputes that the change was written on the chart. What IS disputed however is that Dr. Yip told Laci (or Scott if he was there) that the date changed since the Hera Group's policy was to NOT change if the date was within 6 days.

Link to Dr. Yip telling Scott the new date

[Miss Bootsie]

I already posted it - TWICE I believe

It doesn't matter how many times you post info. to provide proof or a reasonable common sense explanation.
The SII's are going to reject anything that points towards Scott's guilt.

If they don't have anything else to use, they will run, change the subject, or will start trying to discredit the witness.

And then they wonder why at times, the SIG's are unfriendly towards them.

This is my opinion.

:patriot:

[Lavindar]

Originally Posted by ekg
Snipped...

Connor's cord was friable..... meaning it was dry and crumbly..

now...... how can all of this wetting and drying happen if they are both at the bottom of the bay? the answer is it couldn't.... so that means they would have had to have come up to the surface...but the ME testified that there was no way Connor was in the elements for every long or he would have been eaten... so how did his cord get 'friable' then?

...Snipped

The NGs answered that one themselves - he was above the water line. No one knows for how long. He dried out there. He was obviously dry when he was examined.

[Lavindar]

The high temperature in Berkeley on the day Conner was found was 77 degrees. I would think that would dry out a body pretty quickly

[attorneywan2be]

Snip


Is that why, every link to exhibits that I click on comes up with
"not found"? Seems Marlene only wants her friends to have that information. I also want to know WHERE she got her informaiton. She was only a spectator in the courtroom. Did she take digital pictures? She was not a party to the trial, other than a VERY biased observor. Or was she one of Geragos's "secret" sources of leaks to the MEDIA that people like to claim convicted Scott?

LOL..anyone can access the exhibits, the problem is probably the links..if you go to http://www.scottisinnocent.com/ and scroll down to the prosecution and defense exhibits, you will probably find what you need..

As far as I remember, during the trial there was a DA or MPD official site where all the motions and exhibits were posted..I think she got them from there.. .I think that site was closed after the trial..as to the TS, I think they were purchased by several NGs..

[Lavindar]

I fail to see the reasoning behind your scenario. If a link was posted, regardless by whom, the information was obtained.

What is the purpose of requesting a link? To acquire information, prove or disprove a fact, testing a person's "search" abilities, or just getting someone banned? If the information is there - it's there.

Thank you for sharing

[Lavindar]

Unbelievable!!!!..you're the one who ignored my post where I explained that the conditions when her body was found would not have allowed for the edges of her uterus to be friable and crumbly, the medical definition of "friable" is (which I already posted before) :

1. Easily reduced to powder.

2. In bacteriology, denoting a dry and brittle culture falling into powder when touched or shaken

Here is the post you ignored (see post # 1445 on this thread)

The autopsy was done few hours after the body was found..her body was found partially submerged in the water...so IMO, had she been in the bay for about 4 months, the edges of the uterus would NOT have been friable and crumbly.. in addition, it is not warm in Richmond..on April 14th 2003 the temperature ranged from 46 F to 60 F.. the humidity ranged from 55%to 93% and it was an overcast day, in fact, there was some light rain in the morning for about an hour ...so IMO, there was no time for the edges of the uterus to have dried out to the point of being friable and crumbly which could be reduced to powder! on the other hand, if she was placed there after the edges of her uterus had already been dried out, friable and crumbly.. that would explain why the ME found them that way...

David Harris: Now, is the, as the officers were, when you were first there, was the body actually awash in the water?
Alena Gonzalez: She was about halfway submerged in the water. Awash and came up, I don't understand your question.
David Harris: Try go through it a little bit different. Was the body actually touching the water?
Alena Gonzalez: Yes.
David Harris: Was the water coming up over the body, or was the body just floating when you first observed it?
Alena Gonzalez: We think that she was kind of,
Judge Delucchi: No, just,
Mark Geragos: Objection.
David Harris: What you saw. What did you see?
Alena Gonzalez: I saw that she was already there in the water, and the water was splashing up on her like some,
David Harris: This particular photograph there, People's Number 104, was that after the police had come out, and so you saw the body, you went made the call, fire department comes out, police department comes out, somebody takes this picture?
Alena Gonzalez: Yes.
David Harris: Is the water starting to recede, or the tide's going out by the time this photograph is taken?
Alena Gonzalez: Considerably.
David Harris: Now the, did you stay there until the police came and took a statement from you?
Alena Gonzalez: Yes.
David Harris: In fact, there was a taped statement by one of the officers that day?

This would also depend on the tidal action as to how far immersed her body was in the water. It does not say the fundus of the uterus was under water tho, now does it?

Not to argue with you but the temperature in Berkeley (right next to Richmond that day was 70. 60 was the mean temperature. You do not usually see a 10 degree difference that close together on the same day
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KOAK/2002/4/14/DailyHistory.html

Here's the report for Richmond

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KOAK/2002/4/14/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

[Mysteri]

On the contrary, I consider it my preeminent source of not just zilch, but also zip, nothing and nada!

:beer:
Once I accidently clicked on a link that led me to SII and a RABID discourse of how Ron Grantski and Laci Peterson were having a torrid affair in the woods and she said to him, 'I'm gonna tell my mama !' and he up and did her in with a handy stuffed sturgeon he happened to have nailed to the cab of his pick-up.

Don't know HOW Brochinni missed such a blatant factor !
Think it will come up in appeal ?

imo


:punch:

[attorneywan2be]

The high temperature in Berkeley on the day Conner was found was 77 degrees. I would think that would dry out a body pretty quickly


Link please that the temperature was 77 degrees the day Conner was found...

[Lavindar]

Link please that the temperature was 77 degrees the day Conner was found...

it's in post 3289. You will forgive me for not having to dig it up again.

[attorneywan2be]

This would also depend on the tidal action as to how far immersed her body was in the water. It does not say the fundus of the uterus was under water tho, now does it?

Not to argue with you but the temperature in Berkeley (right next to Richmond that day was 70. 60 was the mean temperature. You do not usually see a 10 degree difference that close together on the same day
http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KOAK/2002/4/14/DailyHistory.html

Here's the report for Richmond

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KOAK/2002/4/14/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

The links you provided are for Oakland..why didn't you get the one for Richmond?

[attorneywan2be]

it's in post 3289. You will forgive me for not having to dig it up again.

I saw that, and I already posted that the links you provided are for Oakland....they were found in Richmond..!!!

[Mysteri]

The high temperature in Berkeley on the day Conner was found was 77 degrees. I would think that would dry out a body pretty quickly


And the area winds got up to gusts of 24 MPH. ( like a huge hair dryer ! )
Oakland is the neighboring town for those who don't know:

http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KOAK/2003/4/13/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

[Mysteri]

I saw that, and I already posted that the links you provided are for Oakland....they were found in Richmond..!!!

Richmond, Oakland and Berkeley are adjacent to each other and share common weather conditions.

It's like Dallas / FortWorth

imo

[Mysteri]

The links you provided are for Oakland..why didn't you get the one for Richmond?


They are one and the same on WeatherUnderground.
Here's a map of the area:
See Richmond and Oakland > The temps are from the Oakland airport...there isn't one in Richmond:

http://weather.contracostatimes.com/auto/contracostatimes/CA/Richmond.html

imo

[attorneywan2be]

it's in post 3289. You will forgive me for not having to dig it up again.


The links you provided are for April 14th 2002

[ekg]

\


More preliminary transcripts used on an appeal thread wehre only the court testimony during the trial will be allowed

yes, but Criers book is still being used also....

so what's the big deal with using prelim transcripts?

I just don't get why Crier is an accepted source and the Pre-lims aren't........... can you explain that please...

[attorneywan2be]

yes, but Criers book is still being used also....

so what's the big deal with using prelim transcripts?

I just don't get why Crier is an accepted source and the Pre-lims aren't........... can you explain that please...


Exactly!!..in addition, it was ok and acceptable when you used the prelim to show that Amy Krigbaum testified that she didn't know Scott was a golfer..yet she didn't testify to that at the trial..as far as I know..!

[ekg]

I didn't seem to have any problem finding the following info on Dr. Peterson by doing an internet search.

http://www.kaiserconsumers.org/Coroners%20Page.htm

Scroll down and read of Dr. Peterson involvement in the medical opinions of cause of death for Mark Miller and Joey Deil.

Forensic Medical Services, Inc where he is reportedly a partner was also signing his paychecks.

www.crimenews2000.com/lacipeterson/transcripts/111703_brianpeterson_part_1.htm

That link also verifies Dr. Peterson was employed with Forensic Medical Services.

Reading this transcript is a very interesting read. It is Dr. Peterson testimony about such things as the umbilical cord, the size of the uterus and the size of the baby etc.

You will find the size of the uterus was 23 centimeters and the size of the fetus was 32 centimeters per his testimony. Since that fetus was larger than the uterus wonder how that mystery and magic can be explained.

GREAT find Cappy:beer: :beer:

[attorneywan2be]

The high temperature in Berkeley on the day Conner was found was 77 degrees. I would think that would dry out a body pretty quickly


Please do what you ask of others to do ..provide a link that the temperature was 77 degrees the day Conner was found...thanks!

[ekg]

That's what circumstantial evidence is all about isn't it?

Scott was fishing in the bay
The bodies were found on the shore by the bay
It is assumed by CE that he must have killed her.

Scott had been looking for a boat since November.
He withdrew funds from a joint account
He listed the Covena address for all pertinent papers
it in the warehouse.

Grogan testified 2 totally unbiased witnesses say they saw Laci at the warehouse Dec. 20th
Scott said she was at the warehouse Dec 20th
The boat was in the warehouse
Laci was in the warehouse
CE says she saw the boat

I TOTALLY agree... :beer:

[ekg]

WAs dr. Peterson ever indicted for anything? These are just "stories" if no legal action was taken. Hearsay

snipped



is it hearsay when it's his own deposition?

and isn't a lawsuit legal action?

[ekg]

I agree! This whole Renfro family was tied together. Rayonne Miranda, Sherrie Miranda aka Sherrie Mouton, Mary Ann Renfro and Donnie Renfro were questioned by police on December 30th regarding the rape in Laci's neighborhood. The next day Dec 31st Deanna Renfro pawned the watch.

At one time one of the forums had access to records which showed that all these people were related in some way. Rayonne was married to Sherrie, Donnie & Mary Ann were married. Rayonne was the son of Mary Renfro from a previous marriage and Deanna the daughter of Donnie from a previous marriage. At one time they were all shown to live at the same address.

There is no way I can produce those criminal files now.
So I will say all the above is from memory and is my opinion.

isn't it just plain odd to have a rape, a burglary and a murder all in the same neighbor at the same time...... and none of it is related?

[Lavindar]

yes, but Criers book is still being used also....

so what's the big deal with using prelim transcripts?

I just don't get why Crier is an accepted source and the Pre-lims aren't........... can you explain that please...

I would love to explain it but I don't know the context you are talking about.

[Lavindar]

isn't it just plain odd to have a rape, a burglary and a murder all in the same neighbor at the same time...... and none of it is related?
Proof of a rape? The victim was mentally ill and it was dismissed. It also did NOT occur on the 24th. No one has proven the burglary happened on the 24th anyway. No booty from the burglary appeared until AFTER the 26th. Burglars usually get rid of evidence as fast as possible from what I believe. Only the missing (no one said murder at this stage of the game) pregnant lady happened on the 24th.

[Lavindar]

is it hearsay when it's his own deposition?

and isn't a lawsuit legal action?You did not give a link to the deposition. Or a lawsuit.

[Lavindar]

I TOTALLY agree... :beer:

Of course you would. Maybe you can provide a link to Laci being INScott's warehouse. I have seen no evidence to that.

[ekg]

You did not give a link to the deposition. Or a lawsuit.


http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=8921311&postcount=3237

b/c cappy already did and you replied to her post that had them.....

[ekg]

I would love to explain it but I don't know the context you are talking about.

any context on information in this case...

why is Criers book a better source than the Prelims....

[woohoo]

I have looked and can find no connection between them. They never lived at the same address or even in the same city at the same time. More fantasies. I am sure they think that Jacqueline Peterson is the same person as Scott Peterson based on the registration of the Mercedes too

Well just because you have looked does NOT mean it's not there. What sources do you have to state they never even lived in the same city at the same time?

You keep describing my posts as fantasies. It seems there are many facts you are not aware of and so you assume it didn't happen! Where is your source they never lived in the same city?????????Here's my source/FANTASY. And this just scratches the surface. These families go way back.

Rayonne Miranda was questioned by police on December 30, 2002. The next day Deanna Renfro pawned the croton watch. And btw she was on probation at the time. Don't you think it would have been worth looking into as to where she obtained the watch? If not Laci's it could have been stolen somewhere else. But it's too much of a coincidence. It was Laci's watch IMO.

In 1999 we have Deanna, Mary Ann Renfro, Donnie Renfro, Steven Todd, and Shawn Tenbrink in the Stanislaus County jail and court records!!
RENFRO DEANA M 186570 3/26/1999 CV UD GUARANTY FEDERAL BANK VS. HARBIN, D MUNI OPEN
RENFRO DEANNA M 236152 7/14/1999 CR FELONY
RENFROW DEANNA M 166502 5/26/1999 SC SCI COUNTRY MARKET VS. RENFROW D CLOSED
RENFROW DONNIE D 231973 10/12/1999 CV UD SANDHU A VS. RENFROW MARY MUNI
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 200782 11/9/1998 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN MUNI OPEN
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 205587 3/11/1999 CR FELONY THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN SUPER CLOSED
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 233248 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN MUNI CLOSED
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 1000207 11/30/1999 CR FELONY PEO VS TODD, STEVEN WAYNE SUPER CLOSED


In 2002 we have Shawn Tenbrink (Aponte person in question) Steven Todd, Mary Ann Renfro, and her son Rayonne/Raymond in jail in Stanislaus County.
TENBRINK SHAWN DJ D 1041662 5/30/2002 CR FELONY PEO VS TENBRINK, SHAWN SUPER HOLD
TENBRINK SHAWN DJ D 1043721 7/10/2002 CR FELONY PEO VS TENBRINK, SHAWN SUPER HOLD
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 1033868 3/7/2002 CR FELONY
RENFRO MARY ANN D 309981 4/8/2002 CV UD CANCIMILLA, R VS. MOULTON, S MUNI OPEN
MIRANDA RANDY D 309981 4/8/2002 CV UD CANCIMILLA, R VS. MOULTON

In 2000 Deanna in jail in Stanislaus County
RENFRO DEANNA D 1006825 4/26/2000 CR FELONY PEO VS RENFRO, DEANNA MARIE SUPER CLOSED
RENFRO DEANNA M D 262684 12/19/2000 FC CS CO VS RENFRO, D M SUPER OPEN
RENFRO DEANNA MARIE D 842722 11/30/2000 TRF I
ETA- lost the file on Miranda-the year 200 may be incorrect

[I'mSun]

isn't it just plain odd to have a rape, a burglary and a murder all in the same neighbor at the same time...... and none of it is related?Unfortunately, that is normal for some neighborhoods. So, no, I do not find it odd.

[woohoo]

I'm taking a break - I am not running away from any questions or posts directed to me.
BBL

[Lavindar]

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=8921311&postcount=3237

b/c cappy already did and you replied to her post that had them.....

http://www.kaiserconsumers.org/Coroners%20Page.htm

That is a narrative, not a legal document.

And it does not prove what DR. Peterson said under oath with testimony or any legal document. A narrative is NOT a legal document. Apparently he had no success with his narrative in Contra Costa County either.

[caphill]

Well just because you have looked does NOT mean it's not there. What sources do you have to state they never even lived in the same city at the same time?

You keep describing my posts as fantasies. It seems there are many facts you are not aware of and so you assume it didn't happen! Where is your source they never lived in the same city?????????Here's my source/FANTASY. And this just scratches the surface. Snipped

Snipped




In 1999 we have Deanna, Mary Ann Renfro, Donnie Renfro, Steven Todd, and Shawn Tenbrink in the Stanislaus County jail and court records!!
RENFRO DEANA M 186570 3/26/1999 CV UD GUARANTY FEDERAL BANK VS. HARBIN, D MUNI OPEN
RENFRO DEANNA M 236152 7/14/1999 CR FELONY
RENFROW DEANNA M 166502 5/26/1999 SC SCI COUNTRY MARKET VS. RENFROW D CLOSED
RENFROW DONNIE D 231973 10/12/1999 CV UD SANDHU A VS. RENFROW MARY MUNI
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 200782 11/9/1998 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN MUNI OPEN
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 205587 3/11/1999 CR FELONY THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN SUPER CLOSED
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 233248 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN MUNI CLOSED
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 1000207 11/30/1999 CR FELONY PEO VS TODD, STEVEN WAYNE SUPER CLOSED


In 2002 we have Shawn Tenbrink (Aponte person in question) Steven Todd, Mary Ann Renfro, and her son Rayonne/Raymond in jail in Stanislaus County.
TENBRINK SHAWN DJ D 1041662 5/30/2002 CR FELONY PEO VS TENBRINK, SHAWN SUPER HOLD
TENBRINK SHAWN DJ D 1043721 7/10/2002 CR FELONY PEO VS TENBRINK, SHAWN SUPER HOLD
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 1033868 3/7/2002 CR FELONY
RENFRO MARY ANN D 309981 4/8/2002 CV UD CANCIMILLA, R VS. MOULTON, S MUNI OPEN
MIRANDA RANDY D 309981 4/8/2002 CV UD CANCIMILLA, R VS. MOULTON

In 2000 Deanna in jail in Stanislaus County
RENFRO DEANNA D 1006825 4/26/2000 CR FELONY PEO VS RENFRO, DEANNA MARIE SUPER CLOSED
RENFRO DEANNA M D 262684 12/19/2000 FC CS CO VS RENFRO, D M SUPER OPEN
RENFRO DEANNA MARIE D 842722 11/30/2000 TRF I
ETA- lost the file on Miranda-the year 200 may be incorrect


Did you note the two spellings of Deanna's name? That was an interesting post and clearly shows these people were not harmless homeless people who just happen to be down on their luck. They are repeat offenders and I would certainly hate to bump into any one of them when they were up to criminial activies.

[ekg]

I have highlighted errors in your statements. I do NOT recall anyone but an NG calling it the perfect storm.

1. The Albany bulb is a piece of LAND so you are saying she was buried for the duration?

you forgot to add to 'a piece of LAND' that's ON THE BAY...

http://www.baynature.com/2002julysept/images/albany_2.gif

IMO she only had to be on the shore-line partly IN the water, partly OUT of the water..... getting WET and getting DRY.... it is an old dump spot isn't it? one that ppl don't use anymore? who would have found her there?

and it's RIGHT BY WHERE THE BODIES WASHED UP... isn't it?
http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/culture/2005/07/29/albanymap/albany_map.gif

IMO she could have been along the shore-line until that storm washed her out... from the look of the map, she would wash right up to where she did, if she stared out at the bulb..... IMO



3. The knot was by Conner's SHOULDER, not around his neck. The twine was looped one and a half times and I believe under his arm.

was the rope/twine around his neck?

did it have a knot in it?



4. Link to Conner having no caffeine in his system.

my bad... we don't know if he did or not since he was never checked....

301. I think provisionally my cause of death was undetermined. And then ultimately, as more information came back, it stayed that way. With Conner, I don't recall doing a toxicology for him. And I think he started out and then remained undetermined.

How odd..... he didn't do a toxicology for him..

[Lavindar]

Did you note the two spellings of Deanna's name? That was an interesting post and clearly shows these people were not harmless homeless people who just happen to be down on their luck. They are repeat offenders and I would certainly hate to bump into any one of them when they were up to criminial activies.


I used the same sources that skov uses - zabasearch.

The men's county jail and the Public Safety Center are at two different locations.

To assume that everyone in jail knows each other is ludicrous. There are thosuands of people in those facilities at the same time and men and women DO NOT share any facilities. So you claim that they knew each other holds no water.

Not only that - but there are about 8 different cell blocks at the Public Safety Center. Most people at the jails are only there until bailed out anyway. There's little or no interaction between prisoners. Why don't you come out and take a tour of the place. Even in court, men and women are held in separate holding cells.

[aingael]

Do you understand crown to rump measurements of fetus? Dr. Peterson CTR measurement was 32 centimeters. That is a measurement head to end of spine that wouldn't change whether the fetus is measured in a fetal position or stretched out. IIRC, the crown to heel measurement of Conner was around 19 inches.

The CTR measurement of 32 centimeters equals around 12.5 inches. Laci's uterus was 23 centeimeters which equals around 9 inches. Anyone up to the challenge to explain how a fetus measuring 32 centimeters in fetal position was contained in uterus that was 23 centimeters?

I fully understand crown to rump measurements. I have measured quite a few in my time. The fetus is measured in a sonogram from crown to rump, with the curvature of the spine (baby in fetal position, bent, measured around the bend so you will understand) this will give a crown to rump measurement if the baby was laying flat. In the uterus the baby is NOT flat it is in the fetal position, curled up.

Therefore your opinion of Connor not fitting in Laci's uterus is foolhardy to say the least. In my opinion you are not thinking the rest of your response through. The 32cm measurement is of the fetus curled up, even tho the measurement is of the ~curve~. If a fetus was in the uterus fully stretched out as if laying on its back on a table, then the baby's feet would be coming out of the woman's mouth.

A 23cm uterus can and does hold a fetus that measure 32 cm from crown to rump.

All you have to do is be pregnant once to figure out that a baby fits in the uterus curled up.

For you further information this might explain it better.

Average fetal length and weight chart


From early on in pregnancy, babies grow at different rates, so these numbers are merely averages. Your baby's actual length and weight may vary substantially. Don't worry too much if an ultrasound indicates that your baby is much smaller or larger. (Your practitioner will let you know if it's time to worry about how big your baby is.) By full-term, your baby may end up weighing less than 5 pounds or more than 9.
Note that babies are measured from the crown (or top) of the head to the rump (or bottom) until about 20 weeks. After that, they're measured from head to toe. (This is because a baby's legs are curled up against his torso during the first half of pregnancy and very hard to measure.) See our help section if you have questions about how we count the weeks of pregnancy and gestational age.
http://www.babycenter.com/general/1290794.html




http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb59/aingaelsmileys/popcorn1.gif

[Lavindar]

you forgot to add to 'a piece of LAND' that's ON THE BAY...

http://www.baynature.com/2002julysept/images/albany_2.gif

IMO she only had to be on the shore-line partly IN the water, partly OUT of the water..... getting WET and getting DRY.... it is an old dump spot isn't it? one that ppl don't use anymore? who would have found her there?

and it's RIGHT BY WHERE THE BODIES WASHED UP... isn't it?
http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/culture/2005/07/29/albanymap/albany_map.gif

IMO she could have been along the shore-line until that storm washed her out... from the look of the map, she would wash right up to where she did, if she stared out at the bulb..... IMO




was the rope/twine around his neck?

did it have a knot in it?




my bad... we don't know if he did or not since he was never checked....


How odd..... he didn't do a toxicology for him..Why is it odd Caffeine that was found in laci was in small amounts. It's not dangerous to a fetus so why check the fetus for a common "drug" that was in such low quantities in the mother. Did Wecht check?

As for the Bulb, it's popular with the homesless and therefore patrolled regularly. No one saw lacy there every - Unless you are subscribing to the Homeless Union theory - that the homeless in Modesto were in cahoots with the Homesless in the Bay Area and planned all this to frame Scott.

Aerial of where bodies were found:http://www.scottisinnocent.com/Trial/Trial/Guilt/prosexhibits/97A.JPG
Ehy would the body lie in a public place unnoticed by anyone before being washed back out and then washed ashore south of there? You are ignoring the currents of that area

there was DEBRIS around his neck and knoted at the shoulder. I am looking for the picture of it.

[aingael]

Snipped for space.




my bad... we don't know if he did or not since he was never checked....


How odd..... he didn't do a toxicology for him..


Conner's insides were liquified, therefore there was no tissue in which they could to toxicology on. Isn't it horrible what his father did to him.

.

[ekg]

I have to be honest, I really hate it when this is brought up. Trying to show logic when there is an illogical statement.

Have you ever heard of the ~fetal position~ The fetus is curled up into a ball inside the uterus. If it weren't we would have babies growing up out of our mouths.



http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb59/aingaelsmileys/nut.gif

how does that change his CTR measurement?

the distance from his head to his crown shouldn't change...

:confused: I need help with this one please..

a mile of straight road is just as long as a mile of curvy road..

your theory kinda reminds me of the old brain teaser.... which weighs more a ton of feathers or a ton of bricks..:biggrin:

[aingael]

how does that change his CTR measurement?

the distance from his head to his crown shouldn't change...

:confused: I need help with this one please..

a mile of straight road is just as long as a mile of curvy road..

your theory kinda reminds me of the old brain teaser.... which weighs more a ton of feathers or a ton of bricks..:biggrin:



Okay, the spine and head of a fetus is curved, bent over. You can try it yourself. Lay down on the bed in a fetal position (you might not be able to get into a real good one because we are not as flexible as we get older) and have someone measure the top of your head, drawing the measuring tape down the length of your spine to your rump. No take the measuring tape and do the same but not following the spine, from the top of the head to the rump across the side of your body. The measurements will be different.

Or you can think of it in your mile of road comparison. Yes a curvy mile and a straight mile are the same but, as the crow flies it isn't.

Does this help any? If not and no sarcasm here, I will draw it for you.



.

[ekg]

No one disputes that the change was written on the chart. What IS disputed however is that Dr. Yip told Laci (or Scott if he was there) that the date changed since the Hera Group's policy was to NOT change if the date was within 6 days.

Link to Dr. Yip telling Scott the new date

I think there is enough CE that shows someone told Scott..

it noted it on the chart
Scott knew the same date Yip wrote down

either he saw it on the chart or someone mentioned it to them that day.........

Laci called Sharon that night right? but Sharon said she was on the other line with one of her friends so they didn't talk very long...... it's likely IMO that Laci didn't have a chance to tell Sharon b/c the call was so short...which is why Sharon didn't know...

again this is another issue that just has to be 'guilt', like the secrecy of the boat...does it prove him "not guilty" if he did hear it from Yip?

[Lavindar]

how does that change his CTR measurement?

the distance from his head to his crown shouldn't change...

:confused: I need help with this one please..

a mile of straight road is just as long as a mile of curvy road..

your theory kinda reminds me of the old brain teaser.... which weighs more a ton of feathers or a ton of bricks..:biggrin:

yes, but folded over in a fetal position - the length of the uterus would only have to be long enough to hold the fetal position, not that acutal rump to crown measurement.

Think of a balloon. If you measure it along the circumference, you will get a different measurement than if you measued the height of it.

[adnoid]

I used the same sources that skov uses...

Log off and cleanse yourself immediately!

[aingael]

how does that change his CTR measurement?

the distance from his head to his crown shouldn't change...

:confused: I need help with this one please..

a mile of straight road is just as long as a mile of curvy road..

your theory kinda reminds me of the old brain teaser.... which weighs more a ton of feathers or a ton of bricks..:biggrin:

I did a picture anyway

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb59/aingaelsmileys/fetalposition.jpg

Crown to rump is the orange. The way it is measured to give an estimation of age of fetus. This would be the 32cm that everyone is talking about.

The pink, as you can see, is the ~as the crow flies~ that I was talking about. This is how the position that the fetus is in while in utero. This is why a 32cm fetus can fit in a 23cm uterus.

[Lavindar]

I think there is enough CE that shows someone told Scott..

it noted it on the chart
Scott knew the same date Yip wrote down

either he saw it on the chart or someone mentioned it to them that day.........

Laci called Sharon that night right? but Sharon said she was on the other line with one of her friends so they didn't talk very long...... it's likely IMO that Laci didn't have a chance to tell Sharon b/c the call was so short...which is why Sharon didn't know...

again this is another issue that just has to be 'guilt', like the secrecy of the boat...does it prove him "not guilty" if he did hear it from Yip?

Yet Laci writes about that doctor's visit in her pregnancy journal and doesn't mention it. She attends Lamaz classes and never mentions it. She never mentions it to anyone. So again, we only have SCOTT's word on this.

[Lavindar]

The links you provided are for April 14th 2002
then post the right one - you had to be there to see it. I made a mistake. Bet you are thrilled that my cursor slipped.

[ekg]

The links you provided are for April 14th 2002

here you go aw2b...:D


http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KOAK/2003/4/14/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
Mean Temperature 52 °F / 11 °C
Max Temperature 60 °F / 15 °C
Min Temperature 46 °F / 7 °C

Moisture:
Dew Point 45 °F / 7 °C
Average Humidity 73
Maximum Humidity 93
Minimum Humidity 55

Wind:
Wind Speed 3 mph / 5 km/h (WNW)
Max Wind Speed 20 mph / 32 km/h
Max Gust Speed -
Visibility 10 miles / 16 kilometers
Events Rain




sure it was hot and dry in 2002, but on the day Laci was found..... in 2003 it was cold and rainy....... kinda hard to dry out when it's rainy....IMO of course...

[ekg]

then post the right one - you had to be there to see it.


:no:



anyway..... I did it for you........ are you going to thank me now for posting your links for you?:chicken:


:biggrin:

[Lavindar]

I did a picture anyway

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb59/aingaelsmileys/fetalposition.jpg

Crown to rump is the orange. The way it is measured to give an estimation of age of fetus. This would be the 32cm that everyone is talking about.

The pink, as you can see, is the ~as the crow flies~ that I was talking about. This is how the position that the fetus is in while in utero. This is why a 32cm fetus can fit in a 23cm uterus.

Very well done, too

[Riviera]

Let's stop the squabbling and get back on topic----> Scott Peterson's appeal

Thank you.

[Lavindar]

here you go aw2b...:D


http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KOAK/2003/4/14/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
Mean Temperature 52 °F / 11 °C
Max Temperature 60 °F / 15 °C
Min Temperature 46 °F / 7 °C

Moisture:
Dew Point 45 °F / 7 °C
Average Humidity 73
Maximum Humidity 93
Minimum Humidity 55

Wind:
Wind Speed 3 mph / 5 km/h (WNW)
Max Wind Speed 20 mph / 32 km/h
Max Gust Speed -
Visibility 10 miles / 16 kilometers
Events Rain




sure it was hot and dry in 2002, but on the day Laci was found..... in 2003 it was cold and rainy....... kinda hard to dry out when it's rainy....IMO of course...
.14 in of rain? That's not even enough for an umbrella in the bay area....lol

[caphill]

The crown to rump measurement would not change, HOWEVER the baby is not in the womb in CROWN TO RUMP.
The baby is folded up so to speak. Look at the pictures I provided earlier. The head is down near the chest so the length of the uterus need only be as long as the folded over head. You must think that people can't think or don't know anatomy, The Crown rump measurement taken by Dr. Peterson would have been of a body lying flat on an examinging table, not in a fetal position in the uterus. Even DR. GALLOWAY said that an accurate crown rump measurement would be difficult as the body was easily stretched out as it was "mushy". Obviously you not only do not provide links, but you don't read the ones that are provided.

Thanks to your friend AW2B for doing the work for you.


What are talking about?The only way to measure a fetus in the uterus is crown to rump since the fetus is in a fetal ball.

I think the point missed is CTR measurement is the length of the baby from its crown to its rump. That measurement is same whether you are measuring the baby while it is stretched out on a table or curled into a fetal ball. A CTH measurement is from the crown the heel is done by stretching out the legs to give total lenght of the body. IIRC, the total lenght was around 19inches(48 centimeters)

Rather than argue the point, if you measure yourself from crownto rump while standing upright and then you lie down and curl into a fetal ball position and measure crown to rump it will be the same meqsurement.

Trust me,the lenght of the body doesn't get any shorter when sit down or curl up.

[I'mSun]

I did a picture anyway

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb59/aingaelsmileys/fetalposition.jpg

Crown to rump is the orange. The way it is measured to give an estimation of age of fetus. This would be the 32cm that everyone is talking about.

The pink, as you can see, is the ~as the crow flies~ that I was talking about. This is how the position that the fetus is in while in utero. This is why a 32cm fetus can fit in a 23cm uterus.
Nice job, Aingael. Very nice. :beer:

[ekg]

I did a picture anyway

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb59/aingaelsmileys/fetalposition.jpg

Crown to rump is the orange. The way it is measured to give an estimation of age of fetus. This would be the 32cm that everyone is talking about.

The pink, as you can see, is the ~as the crow flies~ that I was talking about. This is how the position that the fetus is in while in utero. This is why a 32cm fetus can fit in a 23cm uterus.

ok... thank you...... but why are we doing 'as the crow flies' measuring?

is that what Peterson used?

you're saying that he measured the crown to rump of Connor and then bottom and top(as the crow flies) of her uterus?

that seems awful misleading to me....:confused:

but TYVM for the picture.... it really does help..:patriot: :)

[Lavindar]

What are talking about?The only way to measure a fetus in the uterus is crown to rump since the fetus is in a fetal ball.

I think the point missed is CTR measurement is the length of the baby from its crown to its rump. That measurement is same whether you are measuring the baby while it is stretched out on a table or curled into a fetal ball. A CTH measurement is from the crown the heel is done by stretching out the legs to give total lenght of the body. IIRC, the total lenght was around 19inches(48 centimeters)

Rather than argue the point, if you measure yourself from crownto rump while standing upright and then you lie down and curl into a fetal ball position and measure crown to rump it will be the same meqsurement.

Trust me,the lenght of the body doesn't get any shorter when sit down or curl up.

Look at aingal's picture. She explains it beautifully. Are you saying that I am still the same height when you measure my height sitting down? I am if you measure every curve of my body, but not if you measure height alone. I can''t reach the handle to open the window when I am seated, but I can when I am standing. the height (from lowest to highest) point of the fetus's body is very different in a fetal position that if you measure it strictly by the body. That's common sense.

[Lavindar]

ok... thank you...... but why are we doing 'as the crow flies' measuring?

is that what Peterson used?

you're saying that he measured the crown to rump of Connor and then bottom and top(as the crow flies) of her uterus?

that seems awful misleading to me....:confused:

but TYVM for the picture.... it really does help..:patriot: :)

She is showing how a rump to crown measurement is not necessarily the length of the uterus.

Nevertheless, NONE Of this has any bearing on the appeal. The appeallate judges will not be looking at this - they will be looking at it from a judicial point of view. The testimony will be meaningless to them other than what was or was not allowed in as evidence. And if the reasons for same pass the "smell test" They will look at Geragos's whinig, oops, I mean motions and at the responses by the prosecution to see if there is any merit to the motions. I predict that they will proclaim Judge Delucchi a fair a just judge and it will go on to the more exciting sppeal - the one that the hired attorneys will be doing. BTW weren't they the same ones that did the Menendez's appeal? And lost? Or is my memory failing again?

[ekg]

I fully understand crown to rump measurements. I have measured quite a few in my time. The fetus is measured in a sonogram from crown to rump, with the curvature of the spine (baby in fetal position, bent, measured around the bend so you will understand) this will give a crown to rump measurement if the baby was laying flat. In the uterus the baby is NOT flat it is in the fetal position, curled up.

Therefore your opinion of Connor not fitting in Laci's uterus is foolhardy to say the least. In my opinion you are not thinking the rest of your response through. The 32cm measurement is of the fetus curled up, even tho the measurement is of the ~curve~. If a fetus was in the uterus fully stretched out as if laying on its back on a table, then the baby's feet would be coming out of the woman's mouth.

A 23cm uterus can and does hold a fetus that measure 32 cm from crown to rump.

All you have to do is be pregnant once to figure out that a baby fits in the uterus curled up.

For you further information this might explain it better.

Average fetal length and weight chart


From early on in pregnancy, babies grow at different rates, so these numbers are merely averages. Your baby's actual length and weight may vary substantially. Don't worry too much if an ultrasound indicates that your baby is much smaller or larger. (Your practitioner will let you know if it's time to worry about how big your baby is.) By full-term, your baby may end up weighing less than 5 pounds or more than 9.
Note that babies are measured from the crown (or top) of the head to the rump (or bottom) until about 20 weeks. After that, they're measured from head to toe. (This is because a baby's legs are curled up against his torso during the first half of pregnancy and very hard to measure.) See our help section if you have questions about how we count the weeks of pregnancy and gestational age.
http://www.babycenter.com/general/1290794.html







http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb59/aingaelsmileys/popcorn1.gif


Thank you, aingael

how many weeks pregnant was Laci?

[ekg]

.14 in of rain? That's not even enough for an umbrella in the bay area....lol

Moisture:
Dew Point 45 °F / 7 °C
Average Humidity 73
Maximum Humidity 93
Minimum Humidity 55

Wind:
Wind Speed 3 mph / 5 km/h (WNW)
Max Wind Speed 20 mph / 32 km/h
Max Gust Speed -
Visibility 10 miles / 16 kilometers
Events Rain

the humidity was pretty high... and the event for the day was RAIN..



either way, it wasn't hot and dry...:shrug:

[attorneywan2be]

here you go aw2b...:D


http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KOAK/2003/4/14/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
Mean Temperature 52 °F / 11 °C
Max Temperature 60 °F / 15 °C
Min Temperature 46 °F / 7 °C

Moisture:
Dew Point 45 °F / 7 °C
Average Humidity 73
Maximum Humidity 93
Minimum Humidity 55

Wind:
Wind Speed 3 mph / 5 km/h (WNW)
Max Wind Speed 20 mph / 32 km/h
Max Gust Speed -
Visibility 10 miles / 16 kilometers
Events Rain




sure it was hot and dry in 2002, but on the day Laci was found..... in 2003 it was cold and rainy....... kinda hard to dry out when it's rainy....IMO of course...

Thanks...:D

That was the information I used in my post about the uterus being friable....IMO, the humitidy was very high, the temperature was low..her body was in the water, according to testimony the water was splashing on her body..IMO, there was no way for the edges of the fundus to become friable (easily reduced to powder) under those conditions...! to me, that is proof she was not in water for 4 months..!

[ekg]

Why is it odd Caffeine that was found in laci was in small amounts. It's not dangerous to a fetus so why check the fetus for a common "drug" that was in such low quantities in the mother. Did Wecht check?

As for the Bulb, it's popular with the homesless and therefore patrolled regularly. No one saw lacy there every - Unless you are subscribing to the Homeless Union theory - that the homeless in Modesto were in cahoots with the Homesless in the Bay Area and planned all this to frame Scott.

Aerial of where bodies were found:http://www.scottisinnocent.com/Trial/Trial/Guilt/prosexhibits/97A.JPG
Ehy would the body lie in a public place unnoticed by anyone before being washed back out and then washed ashore south of there? You are ignoring the currents of that area

there was DEBRIS around his neck and knoted at the shoulder. I am looking for the picture of it.

using that picture...... what is that strip of land jutting out into the bay in between the marina and where Laci washed up

[Lavindar]

Moisture:
Dew Point 45 °F / 7 °C
Average Humidity 73
Maximum Humidity 93
Minimum Humidity 55

Wind:
Wind Speed 3 mph / 5 km/h (WNW)
Max Wind Speed 20 mph / 32 km/h
Max Gust Speed -
Visibility 10 miles / 16 kilometers
Events Rain

the humidity was pretty high... and the event for the day was RAIN..



either way, it wasn't hot and dry...:shrug:
It was 60 degrees? When I lived in the Bay, that was warm enough to hit the beach in April

[woohoo]

I used the same sources that skov uses - zabasearch.

The men's county jail and the Public Safety Center are at two different locations.

To assume that everyone in jail knows each other is ludicrous. There are thosuands of people in those facilities at the same time and men and women DO NOT share any facilities. So you claim that they knew each other holds no water.

Not only that - but there are about 8 different cell blocks at the Public Safety Center. Most people at the jails are only there until bailed out anyway. There's little or no interaction between prisoners. Why don't you come out and take a tour of the place. Even in court, men and women are held in separate holding cells.

All your information is for nil! It doesn't address the point I was making.
You said "you had looked and that it was a fantasy of mine that they ever lived in the same city at the same time." (paraphrased)
On each occasion that I have posted a remark or fact etc, that you disagree with or in fact DON'T KNOW, you jump in demanding a link to prove it. That's okay because that's one of the terms I agreed to when I signed onto the forum. I have always provided the TS or link I used as a reference, because I am very careful NOT to post anything that I have not read on this case. If I cannot provide a link I say IMO, which is allowed.

But as time goes by, it is obvious that there are many facts you are not aware of, and one could spend all their time tracking down the TS or web links to satisfy you. I don't fantasize about this case. I have opinions just as you do, and I will so note when necessary.

If you just asked for a link to gain the knowledge - that's one thing. But you always add little remarks like "more fantasies" which makes it clear that you think people just make things up as they go. And that is not true. I view anything I read with an open mind and form my own opinions. That does not make me the "knower of all things Peterson."

And if I post it as a fact I can back it up with TS. I have read the SII site but I don't believe I have ever quoted or posted it. I try not to use the crimenews site anymore since it was pointed out that a lot of it was possibly NE gleaned material. I didn't know that. I have been accused of "waxing indignant" about reading the NE. That, too is not true. I have read the NE. We all probably have. But we all also know that many of the stories there have absolutely no foundation or truth whatsoever - and then there have been SOME where they have been proved to be correct. But how is anybody to know? So that is the extent of my "waxing indignant."

So if there are any of my posts that you feel I am fantasizing about, or just making things up as I go along, please enlighten me and we can put it to rest.

[ekg]

Why is it odd Caffeine that was found in laci was in small amounts. It's not dangerous to a fetus so why check the fetus for a common "drug" that was in such low quantities in the mother. Did Wecht check?

As for the Bulb, it's popular with the homesless and therefore patrolled regularly. No one saw lacy there every - Unless you are subscribing to the Homeless Union theory - that the homeless in Modesto were in cahoots with the Homesless in the Bay Area and planned all this to frame Scott.

Aerial of where bodies were found:http://www.scottisinnocent.com/Trial/Trial/Guilt/prosexhibits/97A.JPG
Ehy would the body lie in a public place unnoticed by anyone before being washed back out and then washed ashore south of there? You are ignoring the currents of that area

there was DEBRIS around his neck and knoted at the shoulder. I am looking for the picture of it.

Just b/c noone saw her there doesn't mean she wasn't there......... noone saw her in the bay either and they searched the crap outta it didn't they?

no, I don't think the all homeless are involved...but could a person be involved and be homeless? sure...why not

[Lavindar]

I did a picture anyway

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb59/aingaelsmileys/fetalposition.jpg

Crown to rump is the orange. The way it is measured to give an estimation of age of fetus. This would be the 32cm that everyone is talking about.

The pink, as you can see, is the ~as the crow flies~ that I was talking about. This is how the position that the fetus is in while in utero. This is why a 32cm fetus can fit in a 23cm uterus. Conner weighed a scant 3.5 lbs when found also.

[ekg]

Okay, the spine and head of a fetus is curved, bent over. You can try it yourself. Lay down on the bed in a fetal position (you might not be able to get into a real good one because we are not as flexible as we get older) and have someone measure the top of your head, drawing the measuring tape down the length of your spine to your rump. No take the measuring tape and do the same but not following the spine, from the top of the head to the rump across the side of your body. The measurements will be different.

Or you can think of it in your mile of road comparison. Yes a curvy mile and a straight mile are the same but, as the crow flies it isn't.

Does this help any? If not and no sarcasm here, I will draw it for you.



.

no-no...... I know you didn't mean it sarcastically.... :)

thank you...

[attorneywan2be]

Well just because you have looked does NOT mean it's not there. What sources do you have to state they never even lived in the same city at the same time?

You keep describing my posts as fantasies. It seems there are many facts you are not aware of and so you assume it didn't happen! Where is your source they never lived in the same city?????????Here's my source/FANTASY. And this just scratches the surface. These families go way back.

Rayonne Miranda was questioned by police on December 30, 2002. The next day Deanna Renfro pawned the croton watch. And btw she was on probation at the time. Don't you think it would have been worth looking into as to where she obtained the watch? If not Laci's it could have been stolen somewhere else. But it's too much of a coincidence. It was Laci's watch IMO.

In 1999 we have Deanna, Mary Ann Renfro, Donnie Renfro, Steven Todd, and Shawn Tenbrink in the Stanislaus County jail and court records!!
RENFRO DEANA M 186570 3/26/1999 CV UD GUARANTY FEDERAL BANK VS. HARBIN, D MUNI OPEN
RENFRO DEANNA M 236152 7/14/1999 CR FELONY
RENFROW DEANNA M 166502 5/26/1999 SC SCI COUNTRY MARKET VS. RENFROW D CLOSED
RENFROW DONNIE D 231973 10/12/1999 CV UD SANDHU A VS. RENFROW MARY MUNI
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 200782 11/9/1998 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN MUNI OPEN
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 205587 3/11/1999 CR FELONY THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN SUPER CLOSED
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 233248 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN MUNI CLOSED
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 1000207 11/30/1999 CR FELONY PEO VS TODD, STEVEN WAYNE SUPER CLOSED


In 2002 we have Shawn Tenbrink (Aponte person in question) Steven Todd, Mary Ann Renfro, and her son Rayonne/Raymond in jail in Stanislaus County.
TENBRINK SHAWN DJ D 1041662 5/30/2002 CR FELONY PEO VS TENBRINK, SHAWN SUPER HOLD
TENBRINK SHAWN DJ D 1043721 7/10/2002 CR FELONY PEO VS TENBRINK, SHAWN SUPER HOLD
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 1033868 3/7/2002 CR FELONY
RENFRO MARY ANN D 309981 4/8/2002 CV UD CANCIMILLA, R VS. MOULTON, S MUNI OPEN
MIRANDA RANDY D 309981 4/8/2002 CV UD CANCIMILLA, R VS. MOULTON

In 2000 Deanna in jail in Stanislaus County
RENFRO DEANNA D 1006825 4/26/2000 CR FELONY PEO VS RENFRO, DEANNA MARIE SUPER CLOSED
RENFRO DEANNA M D 262684 12/19/2000 FC CS CO VS RENFRO, D M SUPER OPEN
RENFRO DEANNA MARIE D 842722 11/30/2000 TRF I
ETA- lost the file on Miranda-the year 200 may be incorrect


I agree..IMO, they were connected...from the same site..how about these? they were arrested on the same day..


TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 233248 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN MUNI CLOSED

TENBRINK BRYAN JAMES D 233135 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TENBRINK, BRYAN JAMES MUNI CLOSED

-----------------------

TENBRINK BRYAN JAMES D 142483 10/16/1997 CR FELONY THE PEOPLE VS. TENBRINK, BRYAN MUNI CLOSED

RENFRO BRIAN LEE D 143540 10/16/1997 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. RENFRO, BRIAN MUNI CLOSED

-------------

RENFRO BRIAN LEE D 140960 8/11/1997 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. RENFRO, BRIAN L MUNI CLOSED

TODD EVERETT WILLIAM D 134676 8/11/1997 CR INFRAC MOD CITY ATTY VS. TODD, EVERETT MUNI CLOSED

[ekg]

Yet Laci writes about that doctor's visit in her pregnancy journal and doesn't mention it. She attends Lamaz classes and never mentions it. She never mentions it to anyone. So again, we only have SCOTT's word on this.

where is this pregnancy journal?

[Lavindar]

Just b/c noone saw her there doesn't mean she wasn't there......... noone saw her in the bay either and they searched the crap outta it didn't they?

no, I don't think the all homeless are involved...but could a person be involved and be homeless? sure...why not

You are saying the homeless people in Modesto have connections to the homeless people in the Bay Area??? Ridiculous.

No one saw her in the bay becasue the bay is very dark, silty and hard to see in, even by experienced divers.

left in the open on the shoreline would make her stand out - yet you say she was place there for how long. And I believe Laci was in a dog-walking park which would mean a dog would have found her. In fact it was a dog who led people to her IIRC

Look at the distance between the two bodies. There are no direct roads. It would have had to be a two trip dumping, and how do you explain no evidence of human handling on Conner. Gloves would have still torn his frail skin up. Dr. Peterson even mentioned that you could see his muscles under the skin clearly.

[ekg]

Conner weighed a scant 3.5 lbs when found also.

is that abnormal for his age?

I'm trying to find out how far along she was? was it 32 weeks?

[caphill]

I used the same sources that skov uses - zabasearch.

The men's county jail and the Public Safety Center are at two different locations.

To assume that everyone in jail knows each other is ludicrous. There are thosuands of people in those facilities at the same time and men and women DO NOT share any facilities. So you claim that they knew each other holds no water.

Not only that - but there are about 8 different cell blocks at the Public Safety Center. Most people at the jails are only there until bailed out anyway. There's little or no interaction between prisoners. Why don't you come out and take a tour of the place. Even in court, men and women are held in separate holding cells.


You seem to be hounding me and puttng forth some kind of argument to my every post. You are responding to me and disputing claims I never made. Maybe you should direct your post to the person you made the statements to which you take such an opposing opinion. I assume they are your opinions though they are stated as facts.

Why do you seem so angry all the time? Why do seek me out to vent about posts I never wrote and comments I never made. You have no clue who I am or who I know, yet you make bold earlier statements of my relationship to other posters.

I think you have me confused with someone with whom you have issues.

Rude and adversary responses are not necessary, IMO.

[woohoo]

Lavindar, you say you used Zabasearch like Skov (?) does.

Well I went to Zabasearch and one query showed the following:
MARY RENFRO Born Apr 1939 1820 RICHARD WAY 10/05/2004 MARY
CERES, CA 95307 Leave a message for MARY RENFRO
www.ZabaSearch.com/Google - Background Check

If you remember the probation report on Deanna Renfro it lists Ceres, CA as her home address.
http://www.courttv.com/trials/peterson/docs/renfroprobation.html

It even shows the same zip code for BOTH!

[ekg]

You are saying the homeless people in Modesto have connections to the homeless people in the Bay Area??? Ridiculous.

Link to me saying that....


No one saw her in the bay becasue the bay is very dark, silty and hard to see in, even by experienced divers.

and the bulb has a rocky shoreline with high vegetation that is not a popular area. and it was never searched, was it?


left in the open on the shoreline would make her stand out - yet you say she was place there for how long. And I believe Laci was in a dog-walking park which would mean a dog would have found her. In fact it was a dog who led people to her IIRC

what does her being found in a dog walking park across the bay have anything to with her being at the bulb?

[woohoo]

Thanks...:D

That was the information I used in my post about the uterus being friable....IMO, the humitidy was very high, the temperature was low..her body was in the water, according to testimony the water was splashing on her body..IMO, there was no way for the edges of the fundus to become friable (easily reduced to powder) under those conditions...! to me, that is proof she was not in water for 4 months..!

The remaining umbilical cord was described as friable also.:shrug:

friable=no moisture or having all moisture removed; absent of moisture; dry and crumbly

[woohoo]

You seem to be hounding me and puttng forth some kind of argument to my every post. You are responding to me and disputing claims I never made. Maybe you should direct your post to the person you made the statements to which you take such an opposing opinion. I assume they are your opinions though they are stated as facts.

Why do you seem so angry all the time? Why do seek me out to vent about posts I never wrote and comments I never made. You have no clue who I am or who I know, yet you make bold earlier statements of my relationship to other posters.

I think you have me confused with someone with whom you have issues.

Rude and adversary responses are not necessary, IMO.

LOL I think this one was directed at me Cap! Amazing isn't it?

[attorneywan2be]

The remaining umbilical cord was described as friable also.:shrug:

friable=no moisture or having all moisture removed; absent of moisture; dry and crumbly

Exactly!!

According to the Medical dictionary, friable : dry easily reduced to powder..

BTW, did you see my reply to you regarding Todd/Tenbrinks/Renfro connection

[woohoo]

Okay. No more squabbling. I just now saw the post from the moderator.:eek:

Maybe to have followed up on the trail of this watch can be used as "ineffective council." I seriously do think it should have been followed up. To leave it hanging with no true explanation either by Geragos or LE either one was a mistake.

It leaves everyone speculating rather than knowing. I think the watch could or would have been pivotal at trial. Seems like SOMEBODY would have followed up on it. Suppose it was Laci's. Then Deanna Renfro would have to explain where she got it and who knows where it would lead.

[Lavindar]

is that abnormal for his age?

I'm trying to find out how far along she was? was it 32 weeks?

I will check what Dr. Tow-der said but I think it was that

She did not testify to that - just that everything was normal, no complaints, and baby was head down.

[Lavindar]

Link to me saying that....



and the bulb has a rocky shoreline with high vegetation that is not a popular area. and it was never searched, was it?



what does her being found in a dog walking park across the bay have anything to with her being at the bulb?


That whole area is open for dog walkers. The bulb is also popular with artists yet NO ONE, including park police ever saw a body lying on the shoreline. That's pretty amazing

http://www.acme.com/jef/photos/bulb.html gven the pictures, I"d say it was not a deserted area. Looks like it has replaced the Mud Flats of the 70s

[woohoo]

I did a picture anyway

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb59/aingaelsmileys/fetalposition.jpg

Crown to rump is the orange. The way it is measured to give an estimation of age of fetus. This would be the 32cm that everyone is talking about.

The pink, as you can see, is the ~as the crow flies~ that I was talking about. This is how the position that the fetus is in while in utero. This is why a 32cm fetus can fit in a 23cm uterus.

I think what all the fuss is about the size of Laci's uterus is how did it get that size?
Laci’s uterus measurement at her last pre-natal appointment was 32cm; however, Laci's uterus was 23 cm when she was found, per the autopsy a condition precipitated by hormone production…a LIVE birth. So, how did Laci’s uterus contract down to 23cm from 32 cm?

[caphill]

where is this pregnancy journal?


Good question! though you know the answer.......... Who has ever seen this journal?

[Lavindar]

I think what all the fuss is about the size of Laci's uterus is how did it get that size?
Laci’s uterus measurement at her last pre-natal appointment was 32cm; however, Laci's uterus was 23 cm when she was found, per the autopsy a condition precipitated by hormone production…a LIVE birth. So, how did Laci’s uterus contract down to 23cm from 32 cm?

How do you get an exact measurement of a uterus when it is inside the body?
Feel? Not that accurate

[Lavindar]

Good question! though you know the answer.......... Who has ever seen this journal? IT is quoted in Sharon's book - Sharon has it, Aaand, of course the police

[frydaddy]

Hi Ya Fry...

*snipped*

anyway..... on to you....

I'm not sure that Laci couldn't have been in a 55G drum or something and then just dumped..... I would like to talk to an expert about this, but I don't know of any..

also I have wondered if she could have been in the Albany bulb the entire time..... but again, I would need an expert to discuss that with....

I can't give you a scenario that would convince you I am right... But she doesn't have to be IN the bay for 4 months and Connor could have been born by coffin birth at the bulb or in a drum.

what I can do is tell you why I don't believe she was in bay for 4 months.... and it's also what you(g's) always seem to overlook and hardly ever address....

She had crystals on her that formed from being wet and dry over a period of time... I'm not talking about just the barnacles, but they to need to be wet and dry....

she had caffeine in her system and Connor didnt

Connor's cord was friable..... meaning it was dry and crumbly..

now...... how can all of this wetting and drying happen if they are both at the bottom of the bay? the answer is it couldn't.... so that means they would have had to have come up to the surface...but the ME testified that there was no way Connor was in the elements for every long or he would have been eaten... so how did his cord get 'friable' then?

Laci, as it has been said so many times.... was bones and some clothes.. there wasn't much 'meat' on her at all... do bones float? and if they do, would they withstand the 'perfect storm' that ripped her head,neck,leg and arms off? but it left her bra on? I don't think it's possible..

you(g's) believe Connors head deflated for the rope to pass over it and then 'reflated' so it couldn't come loose..... you believe that he was turned and churned so violently that the rope made a perfect knot around his neck, but none of that violent churning was violent enough to tear his 'jelly-like' body to pieces?

and what about the caffeine..... caffeine passes thru the placenta..... so if she ingested it Connor should have trace amounts in him.... he doesn't, why?

those items make it impossible for me to say with any certainty that she was at the bottom of the bay for 4 months.... you(g's) are willing to believe in the possibility that she was, b/c you can over-look or IYO explain away all of the CE showing they had to be in a dry environment.. or you are willing to accept the impossible...

You(g') are willing to believe that the storm was so violent that it churned her up from the bottom of the bay, and floated Connor I don't know how many ft above the water-line, over a whole bunch of rocks.. but you don't believe the same storm should have ripped his delicate body to pieces and ripped the rest of Laci's bones to pieces... Or at the very least, removed what was left of her clothing..

You(g's) are willing to believe that Laci trajectory just couldn't be tracked b/c of the violent 'once in a life storm'. ..and some how she and connor just happened to wash up a day and a mile apart...

you (g's) call anything else 'ridiculous,impossible,reaching,ignoring etc etc etc'....what you (g's) don't realize is that you are believing in just as much 'impossibilities' or 'once in a lifetime circumstances that will never be duplicated' as I or woo or aw2b are...

I can't explain where the body was kept all that time.... just as you can't explain the things I just listed..But I don't mock you or hold it againt you b/c you can't explain it either..

Wow, what are the odds that you, woo, and wannabe would all post the first time for the morning within seven minutes of each other, that you mention them in your post and they show up, and that all three answer my posts back to back to back? What an odd phenomenon! Does bring to mind that whole strength in numbers thing...but I digress. Sorry for the delay, when no one showed this morning, I decided to get some work done.

Pretty long post with a number of issues here to address. However, except for the Albany Bulb and the 55 gallon drum, none of it relates to what I asked. Obviously, the point of my post was lost, so let me try again. And before I do, I apologize, it is not my intention to mock you personally.

G's basically believe one story. Scott dumped Laci in the bay after killing her. You want them to not believe that story. So, rather than telling me again what's wrong with mine (as I already know your thoughts), tell me yours. Tell me in detail from Scott leaving the house until the bodies were found. I get the interruption of a burglary part. Take it from there. I need one story of when Conner was separated and why. One story of why they would hold her, kill her, dismember her, and transport her, along with how they did it. I guess what I am looking for is one plausible story that explains it all as reasonably as the Scott did it story does.

[woohoo]

I agree..IMO, they were connected...from the same site..how about these? they were arrested on the same day..


TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 233248 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN MUNI CLOSED

TENBRINK BRYAN JAMES D 233135 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TENBRINK, BRYAN JAMES MUNI CLOSED

-----------------------

TENBRINK BRYAN JAMES D 142483 10/16/1997 CR FELONY THE PEOPLE VS. TENBRINK, BRYAN MUNI CLOSED

RENFRO BRIAN LEE D 143540 10/16/1997 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. RENFRO, BRIAN MUNI CLOSED

-------------

RENFRO BRIAN LEE D 140960 8/11/1997 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. RENFRO, BRIAN L MUNI CLOSED

TODD EVERETT WILLIAM D 134676 8/11/1997 CR INFRAC MOD CITY ATTY VS. TODD, EVERETT MUNI CLOSED

Thanks AW2B! I saw the Brian Renfro and Everette Todd connection but I am not familiar with those names so I didn't post because I didnt want to spend more time researching.

[attorneywan2be]

I think what all the fuss is about the size of Laci's uterus is how did it get that size?
Laci’s uterus measurement at her last pre-natal appointment was 32cm; however, Laci's uterus was 23 cm when she was found, per the autopsy a condition precipitated by hormone production…a LIVE birth. So, how did Laci’s uterus contract down to 23cm from 32 cm?


Actually they measured her uterus on Dec 23rd ..it was 33 cm not 32 cm

[frydaddy]

Actually my guess would be that the doctor's testimony trumps a police detective's testimony of what a doctor said.

Do you really believe Scott just made this whole thing up? And if so to what end or benefit?

Does it really sound like I believe Scott made the whole thing up? I believe I clearly stated an option that they might have been given a window between the 10th and the 16th, or more likely, that Scott saw this date on the medical record at some point after Laci disappeared.

If you have testimony that a doctor stated he or she told Laci or Scott the date changed to the 16th, feel free to post it. Reposts of what we've seen or MG basically testifying for the doctor is fine, but I personally ain't interested in either due to lack of relevance.

[woohoo]

How do you get an exact measurement of a uterus when it is inside the body?
Feel? Not that accurate
Here's ONE doctor's testimony of it. But there are more that reflect this measurement of Laci in the TS

HARRIS: 12-23, he's written as 32?

EDRAKI: Yes.

HARRIS: So after that second ultrasound by Doctor Yip, the days were not being calculated into that any more; is that correct?

EDRAKI: Correct.

HARRIS: So the actual, if you were to go through and calculate it for that last entry on 12-23, if we use that gestational age, the wheel that we're talking about, that would have actually been 32-6?

EDRAKI: 32 weeks and six days. And then if you look at her fundal height, where that 33 is, that's when we measure the uterus and that corresponds to her 32 and six, because usually the centimeters go along with how many weeks you are, if you are an average size person, which she was.

[attorneywan2be]

Thanks AW2B! I saw the Brian Renfro and Everette Todd connection but I am not familiar with those names so I didn't post because I didnt want to spend more time researching.

As far as I know, they are all related..I think Everett is Todd's father...and I think Brian Renfro was Deanna's brother-in-law..

-a Tenbrink and Todd were arrested on the same day..
-the same Tenbink and a Renfro were arrested on the same day
-The same Renfro and a Todd were arrested on the same day

[frydaddy]

Who is they???

Did you forget your own post that I was responding to? you asked questions based on the theory the burglars abducted Laci..

You are saying that my theory is nonsense..so why bother asking questions?..I will not bother answering them anyway!

I guess I am just completely shocked at the notion that you believe the burglars tried to perform a crude C-section. Wanted to verify that those were the culprits you were referring to. As for not answering them because I think the story is nonsense, fair enough. But it is my opinion that you won't answer them because even you realize how unlikely a story it is.

[caphill]

LOL I think this one was directed at me Cap! Amazing isn't it?


LOL. It should have been directed at you. I seem to be favor of the week target for the flame throwing. Maybe a little later it will be you and I can get a break.

[attorneywan2be]

Here is the testimony where Edraki testified that the uterus measured 33 cm on Dec 23rd..


David Harris: The gestational age in the second column we're looking at,
Tina Edraki: Second column, that's written by the doctor.
David Harris: That's written in by the doctor. Now, going through, going through this here, where we have the ultrasound right there on September 24th, it's written at 20 plus one, or 20 weeks and one day?
Tina Edraki: Yes.
David Harris: Then the next doctors visit is written 25-0?
Tina Edraki: Yes.
David Harris: We come down to 11-25, it's just 28. There is no days?
Tina Edraki: Yes.
HARRIS: 12-23, he's written as 32?
EDRAKI: Yes.
HARRIS: So after that second ultrasound by Doctor Yip, the days were not being calculated into that any more; is that correct?
EDRAKI: Correct.
HARRIS: So the actual, if you were to go through and calculate it for that last entry on 12-23, if we use that gestational age, the wheel that we're talking about, that would have actually been 32-6?
EDRAKI: 32 weeks and six days. And then if you look at her fundal height, where that 33 is, that's when we measure the uterus and that corresponds to her 32 and six, because usually the centimeters go along with how many weeks you are, if you are an average size person, which she was.

[caphill]

I think there is enough CE that shows someone told Scott..

it noted it on the chart
Scott knew the same date Yip wrote down

either he saw it on the chart or someone mentioned it to them that day.........

Laci called Sharon that night right? but Sharon said she was on the other line with one of her friends so they didn't talk very long...... it's likely IMO that Laci didn't have a chance to tell Sharon b/c the call was so short...which is why Sharon didn't know...

again this is another issue that just has to be 'guilt', like the secrecy of the boat...does it prove him "not guilty" if he did hear it from Yip?



I agree. The corrected date of 2-16-03 was put on the chart Sept 24 when the 2nd sonogram was done. I think it was this date they discovered it was a a boy, IIRC,

I would guess they may have been so excited about seeing the baby and finding out its sex that a a due date a few days later was of no great consequence.

AS you stated, what does that have to do with the murder of Laci. He, for whatever reason, knew the corrected due for his son.

[woohoo]

Wow, what are the odds that you, woo, and wannabe would all post the first time for the morning within seven minutes of each other, that you mention them in your post and they show up, and that all three answer my posts back to back to back? What an odd phenomenon! Does bring to mind that whole strength in numbers thing...but I digress. Sorry for the delay, when no one showed this morning, I decided to get some work done.

Pretty long post with a number of issues here to address. However, except for the Albany Bulb and the 55 gallon drum, none of it relates to what I asked. Obviously, the point of my post was lost, so let me try again. And before I do, I apologize, it is not my intention to mock you personally.

G's basically believe one story. Scott dumped Laci in the bay after killing her. You want them to not believe that story. So, rather than telling me again what's wrong with mine (as I already know your thoughts), tell me yours. Tell me in detail from Scott leaving the house until the bodies were found. I get the interruption of a burglary part. Take it from there. I need one story of when Conner was separated and why. One story of why they would hold her, kill her, dismember her, and transport her, along with how they did it. I guess what I am looking for is one plausible story that explains it all as reasonably as the Scott did it story does.

You beat me to it!! I have wanted to ask the same thing of those so convinced of his guilt. I have often thought of asking that question. Just what do the G's think Scott did to Laci? What did he do, when did he do it, and why?

I realize this is for ekg, But I would seriously like to try to answer some things if I can. It would be a great thing to do but we'd never get it accomplished because the demand for links and accusations will start right off the bat.

I have to cook supper right now, but I'll be back afterwards and if the question is still open I'd like to try and answer it - or rather give an opinion of some of my reasons for feeling he should have a new trial.

[Mysteri]

Why did a random set of burglars, on a seperate date, kill Laci and son ?

If they did, why not just dump her/them in Lake Don Pedro ? It has over 150 miles of shore line and is only a short time away from Modesto.

Since they are known to be thick as hefty planks, how did they figure out how to buffalo science, law and logic?

Just wondering

[caphill]

Thank you, aingael

how many weeks pregnant was Laci?


IIRC, she was 32.6 weeks. The uterus is measured during an exam by measuring from the fundus of the uterus to pelvic. What is remarkable is the measurement usually correlates to the gestationial age of the fetus.

Still the big question comes up as to laci's uterus being 33 cm on the 23rd of Dec and was 23cm on April 14,2003?

I believe unrefutable medical testimony and evidence will be the only thing that can save him when he finally gets a retrial, IMO.

[accordn2me]

<snipped>

.... Scott did to Laci? What did he do, when did he do it, and why?



What? You're not gonna answer frydaddy's questions first? :shrug:

Personally, I believe SLP killed Laci by putting a large garbage bag over her head and smothering her to death at their home on the morning of the 24th because he wanted to be free to live the "Cadillac Jack" lifestyle.

Your turn.

[accordn2me]

<snipped>

I believe unrefutable medical testimony and evidence will be the only thing that can save him when he finally gets a retrial, IMO.
What? That wasn't available during his first trial? :shrug:

[USAHICK]

You beat me to it!! I have wanted to ask the same thing of those so convinced of his guilt. I have often thought of asking that question. Just what do the G's think Scott did to Laci? What did he do, when did he do it, and why?

I realize this is for ekg, But I would seriously like to try to answer some things if I can. It would be a great thing to do but we'd never get it accomplished because the demand for links and accusations will start right off the bat.

I have to cook supper right now, but I'll be back afterwards and if the question is still open I'd like to try and answer it - or rather give an opinion of some of my reasons for feeling he should have a new trial.


What do we think he did to her? I'm a bit taken aback that you're even asking 4 1/2 years, 9 books, and hundreds of thosands of posts later.

Since Laci was still wearing the same cloths she had on the evening of the 23rd, half of the cloths (and nothing even close to was DRISP described her as wearing). Since the last time anyone spoke to Laci (jabber jaws) was her Mother at 8:30 PM the evening of the 23rd, it's not too difficult to understand that ISP strangled Laci, kicked her HARD in the ribs, duck taped her vaginal area, over her clothing, so obviously Conner would never escape. He wrapped her up in a tarp, layed her between umbrella's (ironically her same size), took her to the warehouse (this is still on the evening of the 23rd), placed her in the boat so she'd be ready to dump the morning of the 24th. Keeping in mind, he had a loaded gun in his truck. Had Laci moved and come back to life, or if anyone witnessed him or pulled him over, he'd easily murder once again.

This is the easiest thing to see and all the NG yappin in the world about grass clippings, messages on dead cell phones, the boat nobody knew about, but wasn't secret, and YIP changing the date, but not testifying to it will ever changed what happened. It's carved in stone, embedded for all of eternity.

No new trial, no successful appeal, no fancy lawyer talk, NOTHING will set that cold-blooded killer free.

[frydaddy]

What? You're not gonna answer frydaddy's questions first? :shrug:

Personally, I believe SLP killed Laci by putting a large garbage bag over her head and smothering her to death at their home on the morning of the 24th because he wanted to be free to live the "Cadillac Jack" lifestyle.

Your turn.

I've always thought suffocation in the same manner or strangulation with the belt of the bath robe. I waver on as she prepared for bed, while she slept, or early morning. And I agree that he didn't appreciate his lifestyle dictated to him by a future child or his wife. He was always number one and that was soon about to end.

I do think the confirmation of Conner's health on the 23rd was the last straw that sealed Laci's fate and I believe that had Laci not gotten pregnant, she might well be alive today.

[frydaddy]

What do we think he did to her? I'm a bit taken aback that you're even asking 4 1/2 years, 9 books, and hundreds of thosands of posts later.

Since Laci was still wearing the same cloths she had on the evening of the 23rd, half of the cloths (and nothing even close to was DRISP described her as wearing). Since the last time anyone spoke to Laci (jabber jaws) was her Mother at 8:30 PM the evening of the 23rd, it's not too difficult to understand that ISP strangled Laci, kicked her HARD in the ribs, duck taped her vaginal area, over her clothing, so obviously Conner would never escape. He wrapped her up in a tarp, layed her between umbrella's (ironically her same size), took her to the warehouse (this is still on the evening of the 23rd), placed her in the boat so she'd be ready to dump the morning of the 24th. Keeping in mind, he had a loaded gun in his truck. Had Laci moved and come back to life, or if anyone witnessed him or pulled him over, he'd easily murder once again.

This is the easiest thing to see and all the NG yappin in the world about grass clippings, messages on dead cell phones, the boat nobody knew about, but wasn't secret, and YIP changing the date, but not testifying to it will ever changed what happened. It's carved in stone, embedded for all of eternity.

No new trial, no successful appeal, no fancy lawyer talk, NOTHING will set that cold-blooded killer free.

Sounds fairly accurate to me. We've been down this road numerous times, haven't we? Perhaps as a challenge, one of us should give the burglar story a shot. I've given it my best effort a few times to myself, but I kept getting stuck at the part where Laci or any other normal pregnant woman would have simply gone back in to call the police, rather than risk her health or that of her unborn child by confronting a burglar.

[accordn2me]

I've always thought suffocation in the same manner or strangulation with the belt of the bath robe. I waver on as she prepared for bed, while she slept, or early morning. And I agree that he didn't appreciate his lifestyle dictated to him by a future child or his wife. He was always number one and that was soon about to end.

I do think the confirmation of Conner's health on the 23rd was the last straw that sealed Laci's fate and I believe that had Laci not gotten pregnant, she might well be alive today.I agree with this last sentence. I believe SLP liked being pampered and taken care of....the baby would have certainly taken the spotlight off of "golden" scum.

Like you I waiver on when....but unlike Hick...I love your style, Hick! :seeya:

I think the pants Laci was found in were different than the ones she wore to the salon. However, Amy could have been mistaken.....no big deal there.

I think it was more of a risk to kill her on the 23rd though. What if something happened and someone called for her? Killing her on the 24th, in the morning, as she was dressing seems less risky 2me.....even though it meant he had to place her body in the truck in daylight. IDK...both times have good reasons for doing it then....and not really all that much risk when you think about it. Noone called for her, did they.....so....guess we'll have to wait for SLP to confess....maybe after his parents die. :no:

[accordn2me]

Sounds fairly accurate to me. We've been down this road numerous times, haven't we? Perhaps as a challenge, one of us should give the burglar story a shot. I've given it my best effort a few times to myself, but I kept getting stuck at the part where Laci or any other normal pregnant woman would have simply gone back in to call the police, rather than risk her health or that of her unborn child by confronting a burglar.I get bogged down at petty thieves killing a pregnant woman over a petty....relative to the death penalty.... burglary.

[adnoid]

...strangulation with the belt of the bath robe...

TopGunner can vouch for my non-involvement in this.

...And I agree that he didn't appreciate his lifestyle dictated to him by a future child or his wife. He was always number one and that was soon about to end...

Yep. Now he's a pile of number two.

...I believe that had Laci not gotten pregnant, she might well be alive today.

Absolutely. And isn't that the saddest part?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/adnoid/thread_direction.gif

And this is why Scott's appeal will not be heard, I can guarantee it.

[ekg]

Wow, what are the odds that you, woo, and wannabe would all post the first time for the morning within seven minutes of each other, that you mention them in your post and they show up, and that all three answer my posts back to back to back? What an odd phenomenon! Does bring to mind that whole strength in numbers thing...but I digress. Sorry for the delay, when no one showed this morning, I decided to get some work done.

I don't know what that has to do with me..
all I know is I took the time to go back a cpl pages and answer you....just b/c it was you who asked...... so maybe you can explain what you're saying here a little better?




I need one story of when Conner was separated and why. One story of why they would hold her, kill her, dismember her, and transport her, along with how they did it. I guess what I am looking for is one plausible story that explains it all as reasonably as the Scott did it story does.


But that's the problem...... I have 2 or 3 stories b/c I don't know if it was the burglars,Kim McGregor or Perry Monroe..all 3 are viable suspects IMO and all 3 would do it differently...

but I'll try and give you what you want....and before I start, I am giving you my opinion.. I"m not going to come back and give someone links to every single thing I am saying... so lets get that out of the way...... this is ONLY MY OPINION!!!!

and when this gets mocked..... just remember Fry that atleast I answered you..... the rest will just go on ignore..I"m tired of putting my asked opinions out there and getting slammed for it..:shrug:

if it was the burglars.... they were a part of th HIG gang, a pretty brutal gang that is/was known for home-invasions, kidnappings,drugs and murders..they took her while she was going for her walk.... what did they take her in? either the Van that was seen or the car Todd and Pearce used to get the safe...I think they tied her up and put her in that shack in Tracey where the tip said...I think one of them was snitching on the other by calling in the tip, but when Modesto's finest didn't bother with the tip, the snitch figured he'd done he best...... or maybe by that time she was dead..at that point I think she could have been wrapped up tightly and taped up and put into a 55g drum that may have already had some kind of fluid in it...

she would have decomposed the same way as she did in the bay.... in water, no marine feeding, adipose forming from cold temp b/c of winter .... Connor is born by 'coffin birth' just like he is in your and Doc Petersons scenario.

LE is getting to close....someone decides to move the body and the only place they can move it and it get LE off their tail is the bay.... she's taken with Connor to the bay and dumped along the shore across from where Scott was... but that storm comes along... and for whatever reason, the tide drags her back out and Connor for whatever is left there where he was found.... but her body is drug back out and her parts fall off as she is being churned and turned in that storm and she washes up a mile away in the rocks where she finally landed..


if it was Kim M

her and Perry Monroe are my suspects in this..... the burglars are other ppl suspects and I agree...... but these 2 are my prime one..

Kim is infatuated with Scott and wants to be Laci, that has been said by quite a few G's and I agree.. there was an un-ID'd coffee cup on the counter that could have been hers... we know she liked to come in the house with cups...she goes for a walk with Laci.... maybe it's something she had been doing for a cpl days.... (I know the one woman who had ber baby taken knew the woman before hand for a short time and never mentioned her 'new friend' to anyone..) so maybe Kim follows Laci back to the house and kidnapps her. I don't think it would be too hard... she'd only need a gun or a knife to get Laci into the car on her own accord.... she takes Laci to her house and kills her...she had rudimentary medical knowlegde and works as a pediatric medical assistant so she might think she's capable..... who knows what goes thru her head..

we know she was under a shrinks care. we know she was taking anti-psychotic meds, we know it didn't interact well when she drank and it made her even nuttier, but we know that didn't stop her from drinking.... all this is the trial and/or the Pre-lim btw...

we know she puts herself back into the scene by just popping up and as a concern neighbor who wanted to make coffee for everyone...but she lived far enough away that she couldn't have known what was going on that night just by chance.... no, IMO she knew b/c she wanted to keep an eye on how it was progressing...

btw I think she lived near where the dogs were pulled of their scent ...and Kim said that Laci used to walk by her house by the Gallo vineyards
here is that site with photos.
http://www.petersonblog.com/McGregor_home/index.html

strangely enough....in Bertalotto testimony(Thursday,
October 21, 2004) he describes how a man named Clark called in a tip that he and 'Richie' would see Laci and a Blonde woman walking in the mornings...

"Richie" is Kim Mcgregors brother...and Richie and Clark worked for McGregor's step dad...
http://www.petersonblog.com/peterson.html scroll down to Thursday,
October 21, 2004

so... she has Laci.. I think she had her for a cpl days... maybe she was debating herself whether or not to kill her.... or maybe she was in a 'wait and see' pattern.... I don't know, I cannot pretend to know what goes on in the mind of someone on anti-psych drugs and under care of a shrink..but sometime she decides she wants the baby and she tries to cut him out.... she doesn't do it right tho... she cuts way too high, I think Laci was unconscious and dying at that point and Kim was leaning over her to get the baby out and she broke Laci ribs trying to get him out...but when he came out he either died then or lived a very short time b/c maybe the cord was around his neck and she killed him....

I think she put Laci in a drum and tied a rope around Connor in the hopes that if he was found, it would mask any marks from the cord around his neck..working in the med field she would have access to sterile hazardous waste containers where she could have put him...

time goes by and she dumps the body as I already described...

if it was Perry Monroe...

he abducts her... murders her, cut her head, arms, and leg off.... I haven't seen the autopsy report from the victim he we KNOW he did this too, so I have no idea if the wounds are similar or not...... but he then took her to the bulb and dumped her along the rocky shore line... where she stayed in water, getting wet and dry by the tides until the storm came along and pushed her over to Point Isabel... at some point Connor was born by coffin birth..


all three are viable suspects...... until they are ruled out I can't possibly say which is which......

Woo, you go right on ahead and add to this.... b/c the G's have many different theories themselves about how and what happened so there is nothing wrong with the NG having different one too...:tongue:

[TopGunner]

Sounds fairly accurate to me. We've been down this road numerous times, haven't we? Perhaps as a challenge, one of us should give the burglar story a shot. I've given it my best effort a few times to myself, but I kept getting stuck at the part where Laci or any other normal pregnant woman would have simply gone back in to call the police, rather than risk her health or that of her unborn child by confronting a burglar.

Not only that FD, but here we've got burglars on bikes, robbing a home on the 26th, turning themselves IN on the 30th where they REMAINED in police custody (and passed lie detector tests), not only stealing Laci (bungying her on the back of a bike?), but they take her home, change her into the cloths she wore the night before, McKenzie doesn't bark or even follow them home for that matter, AND - as Laci's redressing, they ignore and leave behind all her expensive jewelry ISP said she wore on the walk with her black pants and long sleeved white blouce.

Hmmmm.........something smells golfy. Opps........fishy.:eek:

[TopGunner]

snip:

Originally Posted by frydaddy
...strangulation with the belt of the bath robe...

TopGunner can vouch for my non-involvement in this.


LOL!!!:seeya:

[Otter]

EKG, y'all got a future in writing. I enjoyed reading that, and I'll betcha a publisher would too! I don't even care about links or such. This is no Bulwer-Lytton, its good stuff!

Have you ever read Thomas Perry? He's great! You get totally sucked in from the get go.

And the bad guy is always sympathetic. Oops, end of comparison! :D

[Lavindar]

IIRC, she was 32.6 weeks. The uterus is measured during an exam by measuring from the fundus of the uterus to pelvic. What is remarkable is the measurement usually correlates to the gestationial age of the fetus.

Still the big question comes up as to laci's uterus being 33 cm on the 23rd of Dec and was 23cm on April 14,2003?

I believe unrefutable medical testimony and evidence will be the only thing that can save him when he finally gets a retrial, IMO.

I
m sorry, I have to ask this. How did Dr. Tow-der get an exact measurement of Laci's uterus - did she open her up to measure it exactly. Or was it an approximation taken by feel from the exterior of her belly rather than an EXACT meassurement of her uterus itself.

[Rachel Cory]

As far as I know, they are all related..I think Everett is Todd's father...and I think Brian Renfro was Deanna's brother-in-law..

-a Tenbrink and Todd were arrested on the same day..
-the same Tenbink and a Renfro were arrested on the same day
-The same Renfro and a Todd were arrested on the same day
Yes, he was. (Deanna's brother-in-law). Her maiden name was Harbin. I have never found a connection to the Woodward Reservoir Renfrows and the woman who pawned the watch. I use Peoplefinders, but I'm going to log off and cleanse myself anyway. :cool:

[Lavindar]

I don't know what that has to do with me..
all I know is I took the time to go back a cpl pages and answer you....just b/c it was you who asked...... so maybe you can explain what you're saying here a little betterI




But that's the problem...... I have 2 or 3 stories b/c I don't know if it was the burglars,Kim McGregor or Perry Monroe..all 3 are viable suspects IMO and all 3 would do it differently...

but I'll try and give you what you want....and before I start, I am giving you my opinion.. I"m not going to come back and give someone links to every single thing I am saying... so lets get that out of the way...... this is ONLY MY OPINION!!!!

and when this gets mocked..... just remember Fry that atleast I answered you..... the rest will just go on ignore..I"m tired of putting my asked opinions out there and getting slammed for it..:shrug:

if it was the burglars.... they were a part of th HIG gang, a pretty brutal gang that is/was known for home-invasions, kidnappings,drugs and murders..they took her while she was going for her walk.... what did they take her in? either the Van that was seen or the car Todd and Pearce used to get the safe...I think they tied her up and put her in that shack in Tracey where the tip said...I think one of them was snitching on the other by calling in the tip, but when Modesto's finest didn't bother with the tip, the snitch figured he'd done he best...... or maybe by that time she was dead..at that point I think she could have been wrapped up tightly and taped up and put into a 55g drum that may have already had some kind of fluid in it...

she would have decomposed the same way as she did in the bay.... in water, no marine feeding, adipose forming from cold temp b/c of winter .... Connor is born by 'coffin birth' just like he is in your and Doc Petersons scenario.

LE is getting to close....someone decides to move the body and the only place they can move it and it get LE off their tail is the bay.... she's taken with Connor to the bay and dumped along the shore across from where Scott was... but that storm comes along... and for whatever reason, the tide drags her back out and Connor for whatever is left there where he was found.... but her body is drug back out and her parts fall off as she is being churned and turned in that storm and she washes up a mile away in the rocks where she finally landed..


if it was Kim M

her and Perry Monroe are my suspects in this..... the burglars are other ppl suspects and I agree...... but these 2 are my prime one..

Kim is infatuated with Scott and wants to be Laci, that has been said by quite a few G's and I agree.. there was an un-ID'd coffee cup on the counter that could have been hers... we know she liked to come in the house with cups...she goes for a walk with Laci.... maybe it's something she had been doing for a cpl days.... (I know the one woman who had ber baby taken knew the woman before hand for a short time and never mentioned her 'new friend' to anyone..) so maybe Kim follows Laci back to the house and kidnapps her. I don't think it would be too hard... she'd only need a gun or a knife to get Laci into the car on her own accord.... she takes Laci to her house and kills her...she had rudimentary medical knowlegde and works as a pediatric medical assistant so she might think she's capable..... who knows what goes thru her head..

we know she was under a shrinks care. we know she was taking anti-psychotic meds, we know it didn't interact well when she drank and it made her even nuttier, but we know that didn't stop her from drinking.... all this is the trial and/or the Pre-lim btw...

we know she puts herself back into the scene by just popping up and as a concern neighbor who wanted to make coffee for everyone...but she lived far enough away that she couldn't have known what was going on that night just by chance.... no, IMO she knew b/c she wanted to keep an eye on how it was progressing...

btw I think she lived near where the dogs were pulled of their scent ...and Kim said that Laci used to walk by her house by the Gallo vineyards
here is that site with photos.
http://www.petersonblog.com/McGregor_home/index.html

strangely enough....in Bertalotto testimony(Thursday,
October 21, 2004) he describes how a man named Clark called in a tip that he and 'Richie' would see Laci and a Blonde woman walking in the mornings...

"Richie" is Kim Mcgregors brother...and Richie and Clark worked for McGregor's step dad...
http://www.petersonblog.com/peterson.html scroll down to Thursday,
October 21, 2004

so... she has Laci.. I think she had her for a cpl days... maybe she was debating herself whether or not to kill her.... or maybe she was in a 'wait and see' pattern.... I don't know, I cannot pretend to know what goes on in the mind of someone on anti-psych drugs and under care of a shrink..but sometime she decides she wants the baby and she tries to cut him out.... she doesn't do it right tho... she cuts way too high, I think Laci was unconscious and dying at that point and Kim was leaning over her to get the baby out and she broke Laci ribs trying to get him out...but when he came out he either died then or lived a very short time b/c maybe the cord was around his neck and she killed him....

I think she put Laci in a drum and tied a rope around Connor in the hopes that if he was found, it would mask any marks from the cord around his neck..working in the med field she would have access to sterile hazardous waste containers where she could have put him...

time goes by and she dumps the body as I already described...

if it was Perry Monroe...

he abducts her... murders her, cut her head, arms, and leg off.... I haven't seen the autopsy report from the victim he we KNOW he did this too, so I have no idea if the wounds are similar or not...... but he then took her to the bulb and dumped her along the rocky shore line... where she stayed in water, getting wet and dry by the tides until the storm came along and pushed her over to Point Isabel... at some point Connor was born by coffin birth..


all three are viable suspects...... until they are ruled out I can't possibly say which is which......

Woo, you go right on ahead and add to this.... b/c the G's have many different theories themselves about how and what happened so there is nothing wrong with the NG having different one too...:tongue:

I'm not even going to go there otehr than most of this is pure balderdash. Where is the proof the Perry Monroe was in the Modesto area?. Where does it say that Kim lived near any Gallo vinyards? You've been reading too much skov and her listing of names from teh Modesto phone book. Proof of the information on any of these people. Why not Rebekkah Miller who kidnapped laci for conner, cut conner out with a pull tab from a beer can and then disappeared to avoid prosecution?

That's about as plausable as Kim or some people you SAY are related to her. Aren't you the one who says the Renfrows are related to Deanna Renfro - no one has proven that one yet either.

As for HIG gangs - they don't work in that area of LaLoma. You can show NO HIG burglaries during that time for La Loma area. They hit the rural areas, and the high income areas. That's a Marlene lie tossed out there to float. HIG burglars TAKE things - nothing was missing from Laci's house, even though there was more jewelry in plain view at the Peterson house than what the Medinas claimed in their insurance report. The police would know if Todd was a member of an HIG - trust me they have extensive records on HIG burglars - and an HIG involves someone being home. It's HOM INvaSION gang. No one was home at the Medinas. Todd was so "brave" and "aggressive" that he kicked in a door to make sure no one was there. Toss that theory down Marlene's toilet where it belongs.

[Lavindar]

I don't know what that has to do with me..
all I know is I took the time to go back a cpl pages and answer you....just b/c it was you who asked...... so maybe you can explain what you're saying here a little better?






But that's the problem...... I have 2 or 3 stories b/c I don't know if it was the burglars,Kim McGregor or Perry Monroe..all 3 are viable suspects IMO and all 3 would do it differently...

but I'll try and give you what you want....and before I start, I am giving you my opinion.. I"m not going to come back and give someone links to every single thing I am saying... so lets get that out of the way...... this is ONLY MY OPINION!!!!

and when this gets mocked..... just remember Fry that atleast I answered you..... the rest will just go on ignore..I"m tired of putting my asked opinions out there and getting slammed for it..:shrug:

if it was the burglars.... they were a part of th HIG gang, a pretty brutal gang that is/was known for home-invasions, kidnappings,drugs and murders..they took her while she was going for her walk.... what did they take her in? either the Van that was seen or the car Todd and Pearce used to get the safe...I think they tied her up and put her in that shack in Tracey where the tip said...I think one of them was snitching on the other by calling in the tip, but when Modesto's finest didn't bother with the tip, the snitch figured he'd done he best...... or maybe by that time she was dead..at that point I think she could have been wrapped up tightly and taped up and put into a 55g drum that may have already had some kind of fluid in it...

she would have decomposed the same way as she did in the bay.... in water, no marine feeding, adipose forming from cold temp b/c of winter .... Connor is born by 'coffin birth' just like he is in your and Doc Petersons scenario.

LE is getting to close....someone decides to move the body and the only place they can move it and it get LE off their tail is the bay.... she's taken with Connor to the bay and dumped along the shore across from where Scott was... but that storm comes along... and for whatever reason, the tide drags her back out and Connor for whatever is left there where he was found.... but her body is drug back out and her parts fall off as she is being churned and turned in that storm and she washes up a mile away in the rocks where she finally landed..


if it was Kim M

her and Perry Monroe are my suspects in this..... the burglars are other ppl suspects and I agree...... but these 2 are my prime one..

Kim is infatuated with Scott and wants to be Laci, that has been said by quite a few G's and I agree.. there was an un-ID'd coffee cup on the counter that could have been hers... we know she liked to come in the house with cups...she goes for a walk with Laci.... maybe it's something she had been doing for a cpl days.... (I know the one woman who had ber baby taken knew the woman before hand for a short time and never mentioned her 'new friend' to anyone..) so maybe Kim follows Laci back to the house and kidnapps her. I don't think it would be too hard... she'd only need a gun or a knife to get Laci into the car on her own accord.... she takes Laci to her house and kills her...she had rudimentary medical knowlegde and works as a pediatric medical assistant so she might think she's capable..... who knows what goes thru her head..

we know she was under a shrinks care. we know she was taking anti-psychotic meds, we know it didn't interact well when she drank and it made her even nuttier, but we know that didn't stop her from drinking.... all this is the trial and/or the Pre-lim btw...

we know she puts herself back into the scene by just popping up and as a concern neighbor who wanted to make coffee for everyone...but she lived far enough away that she couldn't have known what was going on that night just by chance.... no, IMO she knew b/c she wanted to keep an eye on how it was progressing...

btw I think she lived near where the dogs were pulled of their scent ...and Kim said that Laci used to walk by her house by the Gallo vineyards
here is that site with photos.
http://www.petersonblog.com/McGregor_home/index.html

strangely enough....in Bertalotto testimony(Thursday,
October 21, 2004) he describes how a man named Clark called in a tip that he and 'Richie' would see Laci and a Blonde woman walking in the mornings...

"Richie" is Kim Mcgregors brother...and Richie and Clark worked for McGregor's step dad...
http://www.petersonblog.com/peterson.html scroll down to Thursday,
October 21, 2004

so... she has Laci.. I think she had her for a cpl days... maybe she was debating herself whether or not to kill her.... or maybe she was in a 'wait and see' pattern.... I don't know, I cannot pretend to know what goes on in the mind of someone on anti-psych drugs and under care of a shrink..but sometime she decides she wants the baby and she tries to cut him out.... she doesn't do it right tho... she cuts way too high, I think Laci was unconscious and dying at that point and Kim was leaning over her to get the baby out and she broke Laci ribs trying to get him out...but when he came out he either died then or lived a very short time b/c maybe the cord was around his neck and she killed him....

I think she put Laci in a drum and tied a rope around Connor in the hopes that if he was found, it would mask any marks from the cord around his neck..working in the med field she would have access to sterile hazardous waste containers where she could have put him...

time goes by and she dumps the body as I already described...

if it was Perry Monroe...

he abducts her... murders her, cut her head, arms, and leg off.... I haven't seen the autopsy report from the victim he we KNOW he did this too, so I have no idea if the wounds are similar or not...... but he then took her to the bulb and dumped her along the rocky shore line... where she stayed in water, getting wet and dry by the tides until the storm came along and pushed her over to Point Isabel... at some point Connor was born by coffin birth..all three are viable suspects...... until they are ruled out I can't possibly say which is which......

Woo, you go right on ahead and add to this.... b/c the G's have many different theories themselves about how and what happened so there is nothing wrong with the NG having different one too...:tongue:

How did Perry perform this "miracle" decapitation of Laci AND also remove her neck. There were NO cut marks on her body. And how do you decapitate a head AND NECK???

WHO IS THIS "RITCHIE" AND HOW DO WE "KNOW" HE IS KIM'S BROTHER?

[Lavindar]

As far as I know, they are all related..I think Everett is Todd's father...and I think Brian Renfro was Deanna's brother-in-law..

-a Tenbrink and Todd were arrested on the same day..
-the same Tenbink and a Renfro were arrested on the same day
-The same Renfro and a Todd were arrested on the same day

yOUR SOUCE FOR THIS INFORMATION?

Renfro was female - she would have gone to the Public Safety Center. Which jail were Tenbrink (which one, please) and Todd taken to?

Men and women are held in different wings of the Public Safety Center and they do NOT interact at all. They are housed and fed in their separate pods. They do NOT share yards either.

[Lavindar]

Yes, he was. (Deanna's brother-in-law). Her maiden name was Harbin. I have never found a connection to the Woodward Reservoir Renfrows and the woman who pawned the watch. I use Peoplefinders, but I'm going to log off and cleanse myself anyway. :cool:


Link to this information please.

[Lavindar]

I get bogged down at petty thieves killing a pregnant woman over a petty....relative to the death penalty.... burglary.

Yes, a petty thief with no car is willing to risk his life to kidnap and kill a pregnant woman. No history of violence with him either. Go figure - he kidnaps a pregnant woman (who probably outweighs him), goes into her house to get some pants for her to change into, leaves a small fortune in jewelry in plain sight, removes her top, but not her bra, transports her on his bicycle to a mysterious mountain top near Tracy, wehre he keeps her alive and tortures her (again no history of violence) until he finds out where her husband went the day he kidnapped her, then somehow gets a vehicle, and a boat with a trailer and transports her to an area he has never been and manages to place her right where her husband said he was fishing. Or better yet, he takes her smelling rotting body and puts it on the shoreline. Then takes an unborn child who is so fragile that debris has to be cut off his neck and places him about a mile away - again with no vehicle and without being seen by anyone who populates those areas. Boy, oh boy, that Todd is smart, isn't he? I guess that's why he always got caught. He's sure a lot smarter than that college-educated Scott.

[Otter]

Yes, a petty thief with no car is willing to risk his life to kidnap and kill a pregnant woman. No history of violence with him either. Go figure - he kidnaps a pregnant woman (who probably outweighs him), goes into her house to get some pants for her to change into, leaves a small fortune in jewelry in plain sight, removes her top, but not her bra, transports her on his bicycle to a mysterious mountain top near Tracy, wehre he keeps her alive and tortures her (again no history of violence) until he finds out where her husband went the day he kidnapped her, then somehow gets a vehicle, and a boat with a trailer and transports her to an area he has never been and manages to place her right where her husband said he was fishing. Or better yet, he takes her smelling rotting body and puts it on the shoreline. Then takes an unborn child who is so fragile that debris has to be cut off his neck and places him about a mile away - again with no vehicle and without being seen by anyone who populates those areas. Boy, oh boy, that Todd is smart, isn't he? I guess that's why he always got caught. He's sure a lot smarter than that college-educated Scott.


And this is exactly why we G's find the "theories" so hard to swallow. Please read c a r e f u l l y.

:beer: Great post! ITA!

[Sturgeon_Moon]

And this is exactly why we G's find the "theories" so hard to swallow. Please read c a r e f u l l y.

:beer: Great post! ITA!Great post.:beer:

[attorneywan2be]

yOUR SOUCE FOR THIS INFORMATION?

Renfro was female - she would have gone to the Public Safety Center. Which jail were Tenbrink (which one, please) and Todd taken to?

Men and women are held in different wings of the Public Safety Center and they do NOT interact at all. They are housed and fed in their separate pods. They do NOT share yards either.

I was not referring to jail..I posted info about their arrests...(see post # 3349)

This is the source of my info:

http://www.stanct.org/case_index/index.html

[Lavindar]

I was not referring to jail..I posted info about their arrests...(see post # 3349)

This is the source of my info:

http://www.stanct.org/case_index/index.html


TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 233248 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN MUNI CLOSED

TENBRINK BRYAN JAMES D 233135 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TENBRINK, BRYAN JAMES MUNI CLOSED

-----------------------

TENBRINK BRYAN JAMES D 142483 10/16/1997 CR FELONY THE PEOPLE VS. TENBRINK, BRYAN MUNI CLOSED

RENFRO BRIAN LEE D 143540 10/16/1997 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. RENFRO, BRIAN MUNI CLOSED

-------------

RENFRO BRIAN LEE D 140960 8/11/1997 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. RENFRO, BRIAN L MUNI CLOSED

TODD EVERETT WILLIAM D 134676 8/11/1997 CR INFRAC MOD CITY ATTY VS. TODD, EVERETT MUNI CLOSED
__________________


Please notice that there is NO BYRAN TENBRINK mentioned in this case.

There is no BRIAN RENFRO mentioned in this case

There is no EVERETT TODD mentioned in this case.

The connection?

Oh, and people who are arrested are generally booked into jail - that is what an arrest is.

[Lavindar]

Let me respond to this also

In 1999 we have Deanna, Mary Ann Renfro, Donnie Renfro, Steven Todd, and Shawn Tenbrink in the Stanislaus County jail and court records!!
RENFRO DEANA M 186570 3/26/1999 CV UD GUARANTY FEDERAL BANK VS. HARBIN, D MUNI OPEN
RENFRO DEANNA M 236152 7/14/1999 CR FELONY
RENFROW DEANNA M 166502 5/26/1999 SC SCI COUNTRY MARKET VS. RENFROW D CLOSED
RENFROW DONNIE D 231973 10/12/1999 CV UD SANDHU A VS. RENFROW MARY MUNI
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 200782 11/9/1998 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN MUNI OPEN
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 205587 3/11/1999 CR FELONY THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN SUPER CLOSED
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 233248 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN MUNI CLOSED
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 1000207 11/30/1999 CR FELONY PEO VS TODD, STEVEN WAYNE SUPER CLOSED


In 2002 we have Shawn Tenbrink (Aponte person in question) Steven Todd, Mary Ann Renfro, and her son Rayonne/Raymond in jail in Stanislaus County.
TENBRINK SHAWN DJ D 1041662 5/30/2002 CR FELONY PEO VS TENBRINK, SHAWN SUPER HOLD
TENBRINK SHAWN DJ D 1043721 7/10/2002 CR FELONY PEO VS TENBRINK, SHAWN SUPER HOLD
TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 1033868 3/7/2002 CR FELONY
RENFRO MARY ANN D 309981 4/8/2002 CV UD CANCIMILLA, R VS. MOULTON, S MUNI OPEN
MIRANDA RANDY D 309981 4/8/2002 CV UD CANCIMILLA, R VS. MOULTON

In 2000 Deanna in jail in Stanislaus County
RENFRO DEANNA D 1006825 4/26/2000 CR FELONY PEO VS RENFRO, DEANNA MARIE SUPER CLOSED
RENFRO DEANNA M D 262684 12/19/2000 FC CS CO VS RENFRO, D M SUPER OPEN
RENFRO DEANNA MARIE D 842722 11/30/2000 TRF I
ETA- lost the file on Miranda-the year 200 may be incorrect

None of these dates correspond with each other which tells me that the people may have been in jail, but not at the same time and not at the same jail. Some of them are even Small Claims Court. roflmao One charge is a misdemeanor and CV stands for Civil Court.

[attorneywan2be]

TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 233248 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN MUNI CLOSED

TENBRINK BRYAN JAMES D 233135 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TENBRINK, BRYAN JAMES MUNI CLOSED

-----------------------

TENBRINK BRYAN JAMES D 142483 10/16/1997 CR FELONY THE PEOPLE VS. TENBRINK, BRYAN MUNI CLOSED

RENFRO BRIAN LEE D 143540 10/16/1997 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. RENFRO, BRIAN MUNI CLOSED

-------------

RENFRO BRIAN LEE D 140960 8/11/1997 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. RENFRO, BRIAN L MUNI CLOSED

TODD EVERETT WILLIAM D 134676 8/11/1997 CR INFRAC MOD CITY ATTY VS. TODD, EVERETT MUNI CLOSED
__________________


Please notice that there is NO BYAN TENBRINK mentioned in this case.

There is no BRIAN RENFRO mentioned in this case

There is no EVERETT TODD mentioned in this case.

The connection?

Oh, and people who are arrested are generally booked into jail - that is what an arrest is.

You're missing the point..the information I listed shows that those people were arrested on the same day..which could indicate a connection..it's possible they were arrested for the same crime..

As far as I know:

Brian Renfro is Deanna's brother-in law
Bryan Tenbrink is Shawn Tenbrink's and Adam Tenbrink's brother
Everett is Steven Todd's father..

IMO, they are DEFINITELY CONNECTED..

[adnoid]

...those people were arrested on the same day...they are DEFINITELY CONNECTED..

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

[One2Snoop]

I am so confused! http://www.websitegoodies.com/smilies/gfx/confused0013.gif http://www.websitegoodies.com/smilies/gfx/confused0086.gif http://www.websitegoodies.com/smilies/gfx/confused0023.gif

[frydaddy]

I agree with this last sentence. I believe SLP liked being pampered and taken care of....the baby would have certainly taken the spotlight off of "golden" scum.

Like you I waiver on when....but unlike Hick...I love your style, Hick! :seeya:

I think the pants Laci was found in were different than the ones she wore to the salon. However, Amy could have been mistaken.....no big deal there.

I think it was more of a risk to kill her on the 23rd though. What if something happened and someone called for her? Killing her on the 24th, in the morning, as she was dressing seems less risky 2me.....even though it meant he had to place her body in the truck in daylight. IDK...both times have good reasons for doing it then....and not really all that much risk when you think about it. Noone called for her, did they.....so....guess we'll have to wait for SLP to confess....maybe after his parents die. :no:

My apologies peach, I had to bolt to the big screen for Cardinals-Cubs. My team took it in the shorts...dernit!

I think many of us are of the same belief on why he did it and within a coin toss on how. The when is a little tougher, since he had from 8:40ish until 10:05ish to handle his business AND roughly 15-30 minutes after he got home. I know the argument against is him milling around the house or the warehouse with her body just being there. But, I know even the advocates wouldn't ask me to try and simulate the thoughts of a sociopathic/narcissist/psychopath during his critical hours. I guess what I'm saying is, you might be more right than me on the when. :)

[frydaddy]

TopGunner can vouch for my non-involvement in this.



Yep. Now he's a pile of number two.



Absolutely. And isn't that the saddest part?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/adnoid/thread_direction.gif

And this is why Scott's appeal will not be heard, I can guarantee it.

I think you may well be right...across the board!

[Lavindar]

You're missing the point..the information I listed shows that those people were arrested on the same day..which could indicate a connection..it's possible they were arrested for the same crime..

As far as I know:

Brian Renfro is Deanna's brother-in law
Bryan Tenbrink is Shawn Tenbrink's and Adam Tenbrink's brother
Everett is Steven Todd's father..

IMO, they are DEFINITELY CONNECTED..

Who is Cherrie Renfro?
Who is Michael Renfro?
Who is Richard Renfro?
Who is Robert Renfro?

are they related also? Can you tie them to this crime?Who is J TEnbrink?

What about the following Todds?


Carol? Douglas? Darrel? Craig? David? Jack? James? Janice? Jeremie? John?Judith? LaDonna? Mary? Patrick? Stephen? Robert? William? Do you know if Todd was even born in Modesto?


Do you see how silly your claims look with no backup? I've just linked a lot more people to the Renfros and the Todd names with no backup. So why should we even consider your claims reasonable?

[I'mSun]

I am so confused! http://www.websitegoodies.com/smilies/gfx/confused0013.gif http://www.websitegoodies.com/smilies/gfx/confused0086.gif http://www.websitegoodies.com/smilies/gfx/confused0023.gif
Easy to see why, Snoop - you are a logical thinker. Anyone with good logic and reasoning skills would be confused.

[frydaddy]

I don't know what that has to do with me..
all I know is I took the time to go back a cpl pages and answer you....just b/c it was you who asked...... so maybe you can explain what you're saying here a little better?






But that's the problem...... I have 2 or 3 stories b/c I don't know if it was the burglars,Kim McGregor or Perry Monroe..all 3 are viable suspects IMO and all 3 would do it differently...

but I'll try and give you what you want....and before I start, I am giving you my opinion.. I"m not going to come back and give someone links to every single thing I am saying... so lets get that out of the way...... this is ONLY MY OPINION!!!!

and when this gets mocked..... just remember Fry that atleast I answered you..... the rest will just go on ignore..I"m tired of putting my asked opinions out there and getting slammed for it..:shrug:

if it was the burglars.... they were a part of th HIG gang, a pretty brutal gang that is/was known for home-invasions, kidnappings,drugs and murders..they took her while she was going for her walk.... what did they take her in? either the Van that was seen or the car Todd and Pearce used to get the safe...I think they tied her up and put her in that shack in Tracey where the tip said...I think one of them was snitching on the other by calling in the tip, but when Modesto's finest didn't bother with the tip, the snitch figured he'd done he best...... or maybe by that time she was dead..at that point I think she could have been wrapped up tightly and taped up and put into a 55g drum that may have already had some kind of fluid in it...

she would have decomposed the same way as she did in the bay.... in water, no marine feeding, adipose forming from cold temp b/c of winter .... Connor is born by 'coffin birth' just like he is in your and Doc Petersons scenario.

LE is getting to close....someone decides to move the body and the only place they can move it and it get LE off their tail is the bay.... she's taken with Connor to the bay and dumped along the shore across from where Scott was... but that storm comes along... and for whatever reason, the tide drags her back out and Connor for whatever is left there where he was found.... but her body is drug back out and her parts fall off as she is being churned and turned in that storm and she washes up a mile away in the rocks where she finally landed..


if it was Kim M

her and Perry Monroe are my suspects in this..... the burglars are other ppl suspects and I agree...... but these 2 are my prime one..

Kim is infatuated with Scott and wants to be Laci, that has been said by quite a few G's and I agree.. there was an un-ID'd coffee cup on the counter that could have been hers... we know she liked to come in the house with cups...she goes for a walk with Laci.... maybe it's something she had been doing for a cpl days.... (I know the one woman who had ber baby taken knew the woman before hand for a short time and never mentioned her 'new friend' to anyone..) so maybe Kim follows Laci back to the house and kidnapps her. I don't think it would be too hard... she'd only need a gun or a knife to get Laci into the car on her own accord.... she takes Laci to her house and kills her...she had rudimentary medical knowlegde and works as a pediatric medical assistant so she might think she's capable..... who knows what goes thru her head..

we know she was under a shrinks care. we know she was taking anti-psychotic meds, we know it didn't interact well when she drank and it made her even nuttier, but we know that didn't stop her from drinking.... all this is the trial and/or the Pre-lim btw...

we know she puts herself back into the scene by just popping up and as a concern neighbor who wanted to make coffee for everyone...but she lived far enough away that she couldn't have known what was going on that night just by chance.... no, IMO she knew b/c she wanted to keep an eye on how it was progressing...

btw I think she lived near where the dogs were pulled of their scent ...and Kim said that Laci used to walk by her house by the Gallo vineyards
here is that site with photos.
http://www.petersonblog.com/McGregor_home/index.html

strangely enough....in Bertalotto testimony(Thursday,
October 21, 2004) he describes how a man named Clark called in a tip that he and 'Richie' would see Laci and a Blonde woman walking in the mornings...

"Richie" is Kim Mcgregors brother...and Richie and Clark worked for McGregor's step dad...
http://www.petersonblog.com/peterson.html scroll down to Thursday,
October 21, 2004

so... she has Laci.. I think she had her for a cpl days... maybe she was debating herself whether or not to kill her.... or maybe she was in a 'wait and see' pattern.... I don't know, I cannot pretend to know what goes on in the mind of someone on anti-psych drugs and under care of a shrink..but sometime she decides she wants the baby and she tries to cut him out.... she doesn't do it right tho... she cuts way too high, I think Laci was unconscious and dying at that point and Kim was leaning over her to get the baby out and she broke Laci ribs trying to get him out...but when he came out he either died then or lived a very short time b/c maybe the cord was around his neck and she killed him....

I think she put Laci in a drum and tied a rope around Connor in the hopes that if he was found, it would mask any marks from the cord around his neck..working in the med field she would have access to sterile hazardous waste containers where she could have put him...

time goes by and she dumps the body as I already described...

if it was Perry Monroe...

he abducts her... murders her, cut her head, arms, and leg off.... I haven't seen the autopsy report from the victim he we KNOW he did this too, so I have no idea if the wounds are similar or not...... but he then took her to the bulb and dumped her along the rocky shore line... where she stayed in water, getting wet and dry by the tides until the storm came along and pushed her over to Point Isabel... at some point Connor was born by coffin birth..


all three are viable suspects...... until they are ruled out I can't possibly say which is which......

Woo, you go right on ahead and add to this.... b/c the G's have many different theories themselves about how and what happened so there is nothing wrong with the NG having different one too...:tongue:

I will have to tackle this tomorrow at some point. A lot of information...I should read and respond with open eyes and a clear head.

As for the first part...it was merely an observation of coincidence...much ado about nothing as far as you are concerned...rest easy!

[adnoid]

...Do you see how silly your claims look with no backup? I've just linked a lot more people to the Renfros and the Todd names with no backup. So why should we even consider your claims reasonable?

Lavindar, I'm telling you right now if you start posting the Modesto phone book and proclaiming that everyone in it is connected because they all live in the same area code I'm going to call the nice men in the white coats, and you'll have to move to Denmark.

Which will not help Scott's appeal.

[Lavindar]

Lavindar, I'm telling you right now if you start posting the Modesto phone book and proclaiming that everyone in it is connected because they all live in the same area code I'm going to call the nice men in the white coats, and you'll have to move to Denmark.

Which will not help Scott's appeal.

Trust me I did not post the modesto phone book. I just published some other names that might be connected. BTW I could find no link between Adam and Shawn Tenbrink.

[adnoid]

Trust me I did not post the modesto phone book. I just published some other names that might be connected. BTW I could find no link between Adam and Shawn Tenbrink.

HMMM -- WHY do you want me to STOP my RESEARCH? I must be getting close to something you don't want found out! IT'S GETTING HOT IN HERE!

Adam and Shawn TENBRINK CONNECT 100%!!!!

This will help Scott in his appeal.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/adnoid/53562598448d23b0222f8.jpg

[I'mSun]

BTW I could find no link between Adam and Shawn Tenbrink.Perhaps they attended the same preschool?

[I'mSun]

*snipped* Which will not help Scott's appeal.Most likely, nothing will. I can't think of anything - can you?

[Lavindar]

TODD STEVEN WAYNE D 233248 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TODD, STEVEN MUNI CLOSED

TENBRINK BRYAN JAMES D 233135 5/12/1999 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. TENBRINK, BRYAN JAMES MUNI CLOSED

-----------------------

TENBRINK BRYAN JAMES D 142483 10/16/1997 CR FELONY THE PEOPLE VS. TENBRINK, BRYAN MUNI CLOSED

RENFRO BRIAN LEE D 143540 10/16/1997 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. RENFRO, BRIAN MUNI CLOSED

-------------



ANOTHER PROBLEM WITH THIS INFORMATION. The Case numbers are not sequential so they were most ikely NOT arrested together or at the same time
RENFRO BRIAN LEE D 140960 8/11/1997 CR MISDEM THE PEOPLE VS. RENFRO, BRIAN L MUNI CLOSED

TODD EVERETT WILLIAM D 134676 8/11/1997

[attorneywan2be]

All your information is for nil! It doesn't address the point I was making.
You said "you had looked and that it was a fantasy of mine that they ever lived in the same city at the same time." (paraphrased)
On each occasion that I have posted a remark or fact etc, that you disagree with or in fact DON'T KNOW, you jump in demanding a link to prove it. That's okay because that's one of the terms I agreed to when I signed onto the forum. I have always provided the TS or link I used as a reference, because I am very careful NOT to post anything that I have not read on this case. If I cannot provide a link I say IMO, which is allowed.

But as time goes by, it is obvious that there are many facts you are not aware of, and one could spend all their time tracking down the TS or web links to satisfy you. I don't fantasize about this case. I have opinions just as you do, and I will so note when necessary.

If you just asked for a link to gain the knowledge - that's one thing. But you always add little remarks like "more fantasies" which makes it clear that you think people just make things up as they go. And that is not true. I view anything I read with an open mind and form my own opinions. That does not make me the "knower of all things Peterson."

And if I post it as a fact I can back it up with TS. I have read the SII site but I don't believe I have ever quoted or posted it. I try not to use the crimenews site anymore since it was pointed out that a lot of it was possibly NE gleaned material. I didn't know that. I have been accused of "waxing indignant" about reading the NE. That, too is not true. I have read the NE. We all probably have. But we all also know that many of the stories there have absolutely no foundation or truth whatsoever - and then there have been SOME where they have been proved to be correct. But how is anybody to know? So that is the extent of my "waxing indignant."

So if there are any of my posts that you feel I am fantasizing about, or just making things up as I go along, please enlighten me and we can put it to rest.


Great post woo..:beer:

You stated:

"I try not to use the crimenews site anymore since it was pointed out that a lot of it was possibly NE gleaned material."

Who said that? the Crimenews link is listed in the "case documentation" section to be used as a reference tool to debate and discuss this case...and it was provided by the SIGs!!

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=281014

[adnoid]

Most likely, nothing will. I can't think of anything - can you?

I look forward to his "pine box parole".

Which will not be a factor in his appeal.

[One2Snoop]

Great post woo..:beer:

You stated:

"I try not to use the crimenews site anymore since it was pointed out that a lot of it was possibly NE gleaned material."

Who said that? the Crimenews link is listed in the "case documentation" section to be used as a reference tool to debate and discuss this case...and it was provided by the SIGs!!

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=281014

I take offense to that AW2B. I'm the one who gave that site as a reference - it was not all the SIG's. SO if you're going to make fun of someone for offering that link then I guess it will just have to be little ole me.

FWIW, I find that site to be full of very useful information. IMO, JMO.

[Miss Bootsie]

Unbelievable!!!!..you're the one who ignored my post where I explained that the conditions when her body was found would not have allowed for the edges of her uterus to be friable and crumbly, the medical definition of "friable" is (which I already posted before) :

1. Easily reduced to powder.

2. In bacteriology, denoting a dry and brittle culture falling into powder when touched or shaken

Here is the post you ignored (see post # 1445 on this thread)

The autopsy was done few hours after the body was found..her body was found partially submerged in the water...so IMO, had she been in the bay for about 4 months, the edges of the uterus would NOT have been friable and crumbly.. in addition, it is not warm in Richmond..on April 14th 2003 the temperature ranged from 46 F to 60 F.. the humidity ranged from 55%to 93% and it was an overcast day, in fact, there was some light rain in the morning for about an hour ...so IMO, there was no time for the edges of the uterus to have dried out to the point of being friable and crumbly which could be reduced to powder! on the other hand, if she was placed there after the edges of her uterus had already been dried out, friable and crumbly.. that would explain why the ME found them that way...

David Harris: Now, is the, as the officers were, when you were first there, was the body actually awash in the water?
Alena Gonzalez: She was about halfway submerged in the water. Awash and came up, I don't understand your question.
David Harris: Try go through it a little bit different. Was the body actually touching the water?
Alena Gonzalez: Yes.
David Harris: Was the water coming up over the body, or was the body just floating when you first observed it?
Alena Gonzalez: We think that she was kind of,
Judge Delucchi: No, just,
Mark Geragos: Objection.
David Harris: What you saw. What did you see?
Alena Gonzalez: I saw that she was already there in the water, and the water was splashing up on her like some,
David Harris: This particular photograph there, People's Number 104, was that after the police had come out, and so you saw the body, you went made the call, fire department comes out, police department comes out, somebody takes this picture?
Alena Gonzalez: Yes.
David Harris: Is the water starting to recede, or the tide's going out by the time this photograph is taken?
Alena Gonzalez: Considerably.
David Harris: Now the, did you stay there until the police came and took a statement from you?
Alena Gonzalez: Yes.
David Harris: In fact, there was a taped statement by one of the officers that day?

Yes, it is unbelivable that you think I would believe the autopsy was performed in a few hours.
That is absurd.

Gonzalez discovered Laci's body on the shore at approximately 11:10 AM.
The autopsy was not performed until the evening.

Opedke arrived at the scene where Conner was found at 5:00 P.M.
The autopsy was not performed until the next morning.
Do you know how long the body was on the shore before being discovered?

Also unbelievable is that you won't accept the fact, bodies that have been submerged in water go through changes once exposed to air.
Parts of the body dry out. Especially after six or seven hours and overnight.

Do you deny the bra and pants had time to at least partially dry out, if not totally, before Dr. Peterson performed his examination?






: her body was found partially submerged in the water
: on the other hand, if she was placed there after the edges of her uterus had already been dried out, friable and crumbly.. that would explain why the ME found them that way...
What was your point in stating the body was partially submerged in water?
I assume you made this statement to try and make the point, the body remained wet, therefore the edges of the fundus would not dry out.
But, You turn around and state, had her body been placed on the shore after the edges of the uterus dried out, this would explain why the ME found them that way.
That doesn't make any sense AW. imo

You believe the body being submerged in water on the shore prevented the edges of the fundus from drying out...but then you turn around and state if the body was planted, the edges of the fundus would have been friable and crumbly when the ME found them that way.
So, you won't accept my reasonable explanation that after being exposed to air for hours the edges of the fundus had time to dry out.... but you believe the abraded edges of the fundus would have remained dry submerged in water on the shore after the body was placed there.:shrug:


The prosecution established the fact that the bodies washed ashore and Conner was in utero for the four month period. Nit picking little tidbits of the testimony won't change this.

Do you honestly believe this nit picking you do is going to prove someone planted the bodies?







SOLER: I arrived at the location at about ten minutes to seven in the evening.

HARRIS: And at some point in time did someone from the Coroner's Office come out?

SOLER: Yes.

HARRIS: And was it completely dark by the time the Coroner's Office got there?

SOLER: Yes, it was.

Was the autopsy done the night of the 13th?

SOLER: No. It was done the morning of the 14th.

Op****: It would. Thank you. I was dispatched on the 13th at 4:52 p.m. and I arrived at approximately 5:00 p.m.

HARRIS: Does it also indicate in your report about what time it was the Coroner got there to take over, or the time that you left?

Op****: Yes. The Coroner arrived at approximately 8:15 p.m. and departed approximately 8:40.

GONZALEZ: The approximate time when I found the body?

GERAGOS: Yeah.

GONZALEZ: About 11:10, 11:15 a.m.

GERAGOS: On the 14th?

GONZALEZ: Yes.

GERAGOS: Okay.

JAGODA: The autopsies were both on the same day, the case 0799 and 0808.

GERAGOS: Okay. What time was the first one?

JAGODA: I recollect it was in the morning, but I don't remember the exact time.

GERAGOS: Okay. And the second one was that same day in the afternoon?

JAGODA: It was more toward the evening.

[Mysteri]

here you go aw2b...:D


http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KOAK/2003/4/14/DailyHistory.html?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA
Mean Temperature 52 °F / 11 °C
Max Temperature 60 °F / 15 °C
Min Temperature 46 °F / 7 °C

Moisture:
Dew Point 45 °F / 7 °C
Average Humidity 73
Maximum Humidity 93
Minimum Humidity 55

Wind:
Wind Speed 3 mph / 5 km/h (WNW)
Max Wind Speed 20 mph / 32 km/h
Max Gust Speed -
Visibility 10 miles / 16 kilometers
Events Rain




sure it was hot and dry in 2002, but on the day Laci was found..... in 2003 it was cold and rainy....... kinda hard to dry out when it's rainy....IMO of course...



It was a brief light rain and the winds were high enough to dry up a creek !


imo

[Mysteri]

Perhaps they attended the same preschool?


Or born on the same planet?
Now THAT'S appealing !

;)

[Wearing A Halo]

HMMM -- WHY do you want me to STOP my RESEARCH? I must be getting close to something you don't want found out! IT'S GETTING HOT IN HERE!

Adam and Shawn TENBRINK CONNECT 100%!!!!

This will help Scott in his appeal.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/adnoid/53562598448d23b0222f8.jpg

This post above can't be Skov?? Each word was spelled correctly. BTW-Skov lets her fingers do the stalking. Now I know I have seen that photo before, but where???:lol:

[Mysteri]

Hi AW2B...

They ARE evidence of murder because Scott told Amber he'd lost his wife, two weeks before Laci disappeared. He said Christmas would be his first holiday without his wife, and Laci was murdered sometime between 12/23 and 12/24.

Scott made all of those statements a reality when he killed Laci and threw her body into the SF Bay, 90 miles from Modesto, where he'd been trolling, and where the bodies of Laci and Conner washed up 3 1/2 months later. It was a confession of a crime he would later commit.

IMO

Nutshell and irrefutable.


imo

[accordn2me]

HMMM -- IT'S GETTING HOT IN HERE!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v468/adnoid/53562598448d23b0222f8.jpgSo take off all your clothes
I am gettin' so hot
(uh uh uh uh)
I wanna take my clothes off



You think it's HOT in San Quentin? :lol:

[frydaddy]

I take offense to that AW2B. I'm the one who gave that site as a reference - it was not all the SIG's. SO if you're going to make fun of someone for offering that link then I guess it will just have to be little ole me.

FWIW, I find that site to be full of very useful information. IMO, JMO.

Pay no attention to her Snoopy. It was a baiting post...the kind she usually reports. I'm the one who pointed out that some info was culled from the NE and suggested corroborating the info before posting as fact. I use that site almost daily and it is very useful. Same with the advocates Mecca - SII - useful but not necessarily gospel.

[frydaddy]

So take off all your clothes
I am gettin' so hot
(uh uh uh uh)
I wanna take my clothes off



You think it's HOT in San Quentin? :lol:

Whoa - there's a connection here. Nelly lives 2 miles from me and you're posting Nelly lyrics. To some, that makes the three of us murd-glers like Todd and Pearce.

[Miss Bootsie]

It was a brief light rain and the winds were high enough to dry up a creek !


imo

You're right. The amount of rain for the day was only 0.14.
I guess they think Gonzalez was out walking and playing with her dogs in the rain.:seeya:

[adnoid]

...To some, that makes the three of us murd-glers like Todd and Pearce.

Murdglers. I like it. A word as ridiculous as the concept it represents.

This will not have any effect on Scott's appeal.

[USAHICK]

Perhaps they attended the same preschool?


More like summer camp.

[USAHICK]

Murdglers. I like it. A word as ridiculous as the concept it represents.

This will not have any effect on Scott's appeal.


Muglers, ha ha ha!!!





A burglary across the street from Laci Peterson's home had nothing to do with the Modesto woman's disappearance, police confirmed Friday.
The announcement coincided with police saying they had arrested two suspects in the burglary and determined that they were not involved in the

missing-person case.

Detective Doug Ridenour said the men were booked late Thursday at Stanislaus County Jail.

Based on interviews with the suspects, police said the burglary on Covena Avenue in the La Loma neighborhood took place between 4 and 7 a.m. Dec. 26. Scott Peterson reported his pregnant wife missing about 6 p.m. Dec. 24.

Police previously had said possible scenarios for Peterson's disappearance included her interrupting a burglary at her house or being abducted after witnessing the crime across the street. At that time, police knew only that the burglary had occurred around Christmas, while the homeowners were away.

"We're confident in our minds that we have resolved one crime," Ridenour said Friday, "and now we can get back to focusing on Laci's disappearance."

Meanwhile, searchers also worked outside the county. The effort to find Peterson stretched into rural areas and waterways in Tuolumne, Calaveras, San Joaquin, Merced and Mariposa counties, Sgt. Ron Cloward said.

There were no significant developments Friday.

Several news agencies apparently reported incorrect information regarding a search and a purported arrest that led to the widespread circulation of rumors Friday, police said.

The rumor mill churned so heavily that, at about 4 p.m., District Attorney James Brazelton called Police Chief Roy Wasden to double-check that no arrest had been made in connection with Peterson's disappearance.

"I don't know where that information is coming from, but it's not accurate," Wasden said. "The only arrests have been the burglary suspects."

Detective George Stough said Steven Wayne Todd, 35, and Donald Glen Pearce, 44, were far more cooperative than suspects usually are with police.

"It was bad luck on their part," Stough said. (Steven Todd) said he was scared that he was going to be associated with Laci's disappearance."

Thursday, state parole officers received a tip from someone who directed police to Todd and Pearce, Stough said. They gave numerous statements and facts that checked out, convincing police that the two men were telling the truth.

Todd told investigators that he traveled the La Loma area often and recognized a home that looked empty the morning after Christmas. He said he and Pearce entered the home about

4 a.m. and stayed for about 3 1/2 hours, Stough said.

Police had not yet sealed off the house as part of their search, and officers had not taken up positions in the neighborhood at that early hour.

Todd said he saw several TV news trucks in the area, so he picked a different entry into the home. Police said the burglars carried a large safe out the front door and onto the front lawn. The safe contained $50,000 worth of jewelry and other items, according to police.

[attorneywan2be]

I take offense to that AW2B. I'm the one who gave that site as a reference - it was not all the SIG's. SO if you're going to make fun of someone for offering that link then I guess it will just have to be little ole me.

FWIW, I find that site to be full of very useful information. IMO, JMO.

Did you read my post O2S? I'm just surprised because it is the exact opposite of what you're saying I said..I personally use that site all the times...where was I making fun of anyone offering to use that site? Woohoo was saying that she will stop using it because someone told her that a lot of the Crimenews site is possibly NE gleaned material..I quoted that part of of her post in my post..so I asked her who told her that? then I proceeded to say that it is a site listed in the documentation section to BE USED as a reference tool to debate and discuss the case..and it was supplied by the SIGs..meaning that whoever told her that must be incorrect, since Freshwater listed it in the documentation section and was supplied by the SIGs..

Here is my post again...please read it in light of my explanation...thanks!



Great post woo.. :beer:

You stated:

"I try not to use the crimenews site anymore since it was pointed out that a lot of it was possibly NE gleaned material."

Who said that? the Crimenews link is listed in the "case documentation" section to be used as a reference tool to debate and discuss this case...and it was provided by the SIGs!!

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=281014

[Miss Bootsie]

Unbelievable!!!!..you're the one who ignored my post where I explained that the conditions when her body was found would not have allowed for the edges of her uterus to be friable and crumbly, the medical definition of "friable" is (which I already posted before) :



AW, you failed to address my statements re:skinned knee.

Originally posted by Miss Bootsie:I'm sure you have had a skinned knee.
After submerging the knee in water when taking a bath or when you were swimming - How long did it take that abraded knee to dry out?
How did the abraded area appear when it dried out.
Was the scabbing and skin in the abraded area not friable and crumbly?Do you agree the abraded knee dried out rather quickly once it was out of the water and exposed to air?



Lets totally forget about the SP case and the edges of the fundus for the moment.

Please address the question.
I'm sure you had a skinned knee at some point during your childhood.
abraded - having the skin scraped off; "skinned knees and scraped elbows"

After submerging the abraded knee in water when taking a bath or swimming did the abraded area dry once the knee was again exposed to air?

Yes or NO?

[attorneywan2be]

AW, you failed to address my statements re:skinned knee.





Lets totally forget about the SP case and the edges of the fundus for the moment.

Please address the question.
I'm sure you had a skinned knee at some point during your childhood.
abraded - having the skin scraped off; "skinned knees and scraped elbows"

After submerging the abraded knee in water when taking a bath or swimming did the abraded area dry once the knee was again exposed to air?

Yes or NO?

As far as I remember, it took a longtime for it to dry out..it really depends on a lot of factors, humidity is one of them...however, I don't agree with the comparison anyway...

[adnoid]

So take off all your clothes
I am gettin' so hot
(uh uh uh uh)
I wanna take my clothes off



You think it's HOT in San Quentin? :lol:

Sounds like it's pretty steamy wherever you are. Where is THAT from?

[frydaddy]

But that's the problem...... I have 2 or 3 stories b/c I don't know if it was the burglars,Kim McGregor or Perry Monroe..all 3 are viable suspects IMO and all 3 would do it differently...


This is my issue! You have three stories, yet you can’t get fully behind any one of them. However, you are nearly certain one of them is right and the Scott did it one is wrong. Yet there is much more CE of Scott doing it than any of the other three.

if it was the burglars....

What do you base the burglars being in the HIG gang on? No link is necessary, just an answer will suffice.

Why did they abduct Laci?

Where did they abduct Laci?

Either the van or the car, which van and which car?

Why would one snitch but then drop it, figuring he’d done his best?

Why wasn’t the tip more accurate if the dude was in on it?

The burglars could wrap and tape Laci, but Scott couldn’t, even though be had stuff in his warehouse for just that? Was this after or before the drum. Be kinda messy if after.

A 55g drum of what liquid?

What liquid would wash away 100% with seawater, leaving no trace, yet simulate decomp exactly as seawater would?

Where does one find a drum like that?

LE was getting close to what? You just said they blew off the tip.

Who’s tail were they on, MPD supposedly only focused on Scott.

Across from where Scott was…which spot? Where was there target dump site prior to the storm that moved her?

Her parts fell off solely from the storm? What about the parts from the coffin birth, the placenta and umbilical cord…everything that was gone was gone from the storm…Conner washed up, but none of her limbs would?

She would have given coffin birth and decomposed the same way folded into a 55g drum?


if it was Kim M...

Some of the same questions apply from the above story. Add to those the following comments and questions.

Didn’t Kim pass a poly. (I know…poly’s are unreliable, not admissible, and easily tricked, she is the third somewhat deviant character in this case that took one and likely tricked it.) To be fair, my memory on her taking one may be faulty, so this is a statement than someone can mock back, potentially. I’m too lazy to verify this morning.

Kim pulled off the perfect frame in history, but left a coffee cup at the house?

Where did Kim encounter Laci to do this?

When did Kim encounter Laci to do this?

Clark was an alcoholic drug user in rehab. He didn’t start construction job near Laci’s house until October. The location where they met to load up for the construction jobs was a significant distance from Laci’s walk path, too significant a distance to know it was Laci, whom he had never met. His tip was called in after Laci and Conner were found and identified, after Scott was arrested. You think a dude with a substance abuse problem is going to hear nothing on the news about Laci for six months, read a Modesto Bee article based on sightings we already know was bunk, THEN call the tip line with pertinent information that he recalls with total clarity from six months earlier? Clark didn’t want to get involved and he wasn’t called as a witness – so I’d say he’s irrelevant.


if it was Perry Monroe...

From what little I know about Perry Monroe…his profile doesn’t fit the type of person capable of a murder AND flawless frame job. I’m totally going off sketchy memory, but wasn’t he arrested with a pair of human hands in his car? He keeps hands from one murder, but calculates and executes the perfect frame of Scott? Makes no sense really…like most stories…a lot of coincidence stitched together to come up with something to divert the eyes from Scott.

Thought I'd type my editorial in a separate color from my answers. It is not my intention to be disrespectful or mocking in my responses to YOU. These are just quick off the top of my head responses, so they aren't carefully thought out for PC purposes, just reactions. So, if these violate whatever rapport we have, I apologize, it isn't intentional.

[frydaddy]

It was a brief light rain and the winds were high enough to dry up a creek !


imo

20 mph winds are significant. Sunlight, even overcast conditions, has an effect. And 60 degrees may not be hot, but I don't know that you can consider that cold. Catch a fish and leave him on the bank in sunlight, 60 degrees, and gusty winds and see how soon he dries out. And we're talking about human tissue that's been submerged in sea water (or another fluid) for some time, who knows what that does to relative properties of human tissue.

Also potentially relevant is elevation, the 15-ish mile distance between Oakland Airport and Point Isabel, and the fact that you can look out into the ocean from Point Isabel, but not from Oakland Airport. Temps, precipitation, and air speed might be very different.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I agree with you! ;)

[Lavindar]

snipped for brevity


From what little I know about Perry Monroe…his profile doesn’t fit the type of person capable of a murder AND flawless frame job. I’m totally going off sketchy memory, but wasn’t he arrested with a pair of human hands in his car? He keeps hands from one murder, but calculates and executes the perfect frame of Scott? Makes no sense really…like most stories…a lot of coincidence stitched together to come up with something to divert the eyes from Scott.

Thought I'd type my editorial in a separate color from my answers. It is not my intention to be disrespectful or mocking in my responses to YOU. These are just quick off the top of my head responses, so they aren't carefully thought out for PC purposes, just reactions. So, if these violate whatever rapport we have, I apologize, it isn't intentional.

Didn't Perry Monroe's crime occur almost 6 months AFTER Laci's disappearance. Didn't he leave tons of evidence? Yet he could commit the perfect crime of getting rid of Laci and not leaving one clue. Go figure

[frydaddy]

Didn't Perry Monroe's crime occur almost 6 months AFTER Laci's disappearance. Didn't he leave tons of evidence? Yet he could commit the perfect crime of getting rid of Laci and not leaving one clue. Go figure

June 22, 2003

And that was sort of my point...he pulls off the perfect frame job and then six months later, he uses his real name to book a hotel room, then kills a woman in that room, then leaves with her hands in the car and all that evidence back at the hotel, then sleeps in his car as if it never happened.

The fact that the only real information out there on Perry Monroe is on blogs attempting to insinuate Monroe into the Peterson case alone is reason to dismiss it. Even the lead investigator scoffed at the idea the two cases were related, per one of the blogs.

[Lavindar]

Sounds like it's pretty steamy wherever you are. Where is THAT from?


IIRC Scott is on the fifth tier - and yes, since heat rises, he might be warmer than most prisoners lodged there. I can assure you that being on the fifth floor in an non-air-conditioned building can be pretty darn hot at 70 degrees outside.

[frydaddy]

Lunch!BBL...

[LindaA]

Isn't a voice mail message for a cell phone stored on a server somewhere. The customer has to call in to get it. So it wouldn't matter if the phone was dead, the message would still be recorded and could be retrieved when calling that number whewn the phone was charged again. At least that's what my sevice is like.

[Lavindar]

Isn't a voice mail message for a cell phone stored on a server somewhere. The customer has to call in to get it. So it wouldn't matter if the phone was dead, the message would still be recorded and could be retrieved when calling that number whewn the phone was charged again. At least that's what my sevice is like.
I have no idea where it is saved, but yes, it's stored somewhere until it is delted imo

[accordn2me]

Sounds like it's pretty steamy wherever you are. Where is THAT from?ummm....YOU started it with:

IT'S GETTING HOT IN HERE!

That's the first line to that chorus. My friend's grandson, a 2 yr.-old, used to sing it all the time. I had never heard the song and had to ask, "where'd he get that from?" She played it for me. So when you started with the first line...I just jumped in! :o

It won't have any impact on SLP's appeal.

[adnoid]

ummm....YOU started it with:

IT'S GETTING HOT IN HERE!

That's the first line to that chorus. My friend's grandson, a 2 yr.-old, used to sing it all the time...

Oh, OK. Sorry. That is a stock line from the fool Skov whenever she makes a "connection" between people, proving that they are part of a conspiracy based on a shared zip code. Because I'm part of a criminal conspiracy with everyone in my zip code, just like you are in yours.

I did look up that song, and I don't know it. In 1989 I was traveling in Romania, when I snapped a picture that accidentally included an old Gypsy woman. She cursed me. Of course I didn't understand the Romanian utterances at the time, but I later found out the curse she put on me is "All rap music will sound the same to you!". So I can't really tell one from another.

[woohoo]

I don’t claim to be a super sleuth, or psychic, so I can’t claim to know for sure what happened to Laci. But I have my ideas. My main course in this whole fiasco is and always has been the fact that Laci’s murder was NOT investigated properly and honestly and Scott was NOT proven guilty BARD. Not even close.

December 2002: The shelter or Food Bank in the park had been a draw to transient, sex offenders, parolees, homeless people, and yes, burglars. There had already been several incidents of theft reported on Covena. Laci had written emails to city employees trying to get an area closed to stop the flow of these people. It was reported that On several occasions she had accosted them. She had been warned by a retired judge neighbor to stay away from these people.

Research shows that the HIG were rampant in and around Modesto and there had been 2 near Covena. All the reports of these robberies had graphic details of beatings, rapes, and even killing the people they robbed. These gangs were feared by all who knew them. And people like Steven Todd would definitely know them and feared them. Steven Todd moved in those circles. And I don’t think he would hesitate to call on any of them if the booty from the Medinas could pay for their services. And it was. If MPD had not ordered the Medina safe destroyed, I think there would have been evidence found. There was absolutely no reason to do that!
* HIG robberies in Covena area are on a map which was published

Anyway, people on Covena had set up a staunch neighborhood watch program – enter Kim McGregor. I have always felt Kim’s involvement was a lookout for members of one or more of these gangs. Her boyfriend had a long criminal history and had no valid alibi for December 24th. When he came to court he brought the time records of his brother!
GERAGOS: In fact, you brought, I think Mr. Distaso asked you if he asked you to bring your work records. You brought your work records on your own today; isn't that correct?
LAOLAGI: Yeah. I was supposed to fax that, but I just now found them.
GERAGOS: And specifically you brought records, I show, that there's, you go by the name Matt. Do you also go by the name Warren?
LAOLAGI: That's my brother.
GERAGOS: Okay. Do you have the, there's some time cards here. It shows that Warren was working on the 24th. Is your time card in here?
LAOLAGI: No, I'm management. I am management. Part of the management
He had an undocumented letter signed by a “manager” that said he was at work that day. But NO TIME card like his brother, which he tried to pass off as his records.

As a member of this “neighborhood watch” Kim knew exactly when residents would be gone and knew the details of many of their possessions. And she knew the Medinas would be gone. And there is no doubt in my mind this is where it all began or rather ended for Laci. If Kim had a connection with Steven Todd, she could very well have been at the Medina house when Laci accosted Todd. And Laci knew her!
She very well could have become involved when Laci was “handed off” to the “dark skinned or Asian looking men” seen by Diane Jackson. I believe the 3 were Matt Laolagi and his 2 roommates who were Hawaiian/Samoan descent. When Kim broke into the house later on, the MPD reported very quickly "all items returned." But we know that wasn't true. And I NEVER read in any statement from MPD that Kim M. rifled the closets and stole clothes! I believe when Laci spotted the burglary in progress, she went straight to it. Without a second thought.

The prosecution’s own words in their response to the defense's motion for a new trial the robbery across the street at the Medina's took place on December 24, the day Laci went missing. After doing everything down to the ridiculous to make the public and the court believe it happened on the 26th. They HAD to get that burglary off that date to advance their theory – and they did.

I think after being caught by Laci what was Todd to do. They had no way of dealing with it and I believe the 3 men were called in to take her away from the scene. Where did all the things taken from the Medinas go? Todd and Pearce didn’t have it! Some of the jewelry I believe was returned, but no guns etc. There was a very important reason why they couldn’t just leave her there and make their getaway, and it may very well have been Kim McGregor’s involvement. Because Laci knew her.
Kim has a history of mental issues . At the time of the burglary, Kim was off her medication and drinking. Her interrogation by Brocchini is an absolute joke. And he is “protective” of her for whatever reason. He admitted that he sees her occasionally “when someone bothers her.” Her whereabouts is a total mystery.

I think Laci was taken to Tracy and held there for an undetermined period of time. One of the business locations where Matt Laolagi worked is in Tracy. I think she was seen on the way. A retired peace officer claims to have seen Laci squatting next to a van with two suspicious looking men. Why would he just make that up? Why would MPD dismiss his call without any concern? I believe the report of her being abused was correct. I think the person who called this information in quickly realized the MPD was going to do nothing! It was a great risk to do that and I’m sure they paid dearly. Matt Laogi’s employer was murdered after or during this trial. Was it him? Did he know too much? Diane Jackson didn't testify because she wasn't telling the truth, she was petrified! After all, she had the 3 men and LE to fear, because her story was glitch in this production.

I think after mulling over what to do about Laci, the story had taken on national attention. I think she was killed in Tracy. Whether to further conceal her identity or for whatever reason, I think the baby was taken out. The hole in the fundus and the broken ribs all line up together. I think she was dismembered – and those parts disposed of in Tracy. They burned when that area was burned. I think she was placed in that heavy plastic sheeting and the baby was placed in a bag and it was taped or tied to her, and they were transported to the Albany Bulb. It shouldn’t be a hard task, MPD says Scott did it in broad daylight. I believe she was concealed in some way that the wetting and drying process took place.

I think it was clear that LE was NEVER going to find those bodies searching the bay and the people involved in this knew it. With the finest of sonar equipment with the ability to find even a pin, a dime, and a schnapple bottle, yet no Laci. They wanted it to end and Scott was their perfect way out. All they had to do was give LE what they wanted – Laci’s body. They had no “real” evidence to convict Scott. Just a story contrived of secret boats, and anchors, and golfing vs fishing statements, unreliable cell phone records and affairs. They had to have a body. And it had to be found in or near the Bay.

The bodies were either released and floated to where they were found, or were placed on the shore. It’s a real stretch to believe Conner made it across the jetty and landed in one piece. But they could have been released from the Bulb, and separated in the waters. No significant attention was paid to the heavy plastic bag that smelled of death as per a witness, nor of the tape/twine around the baby’s neck. That was not important. The bodies had been found just where they needed to be.

[accordn2me]

Oh, OK. Sorry. That is a stock line from the fool Skov whenever she makes a "connection" between people, proving that they are part of a conspiracy based on a shared zip code. Because I'm part of a criminal conspiracy with everyone in my zip code, just like you are in yours.

I did look up that song, and I don't know it. In 1989 I was traveling in Romania, when I snapped a picture that accidentally included an old Gypsy woman. She cursed me. Of course I didn't understand the Romanian utterances at the time, but I later found out the curse she put on me is "All rap music will sound the same to you!". So I can't really tell one from another.
What a relief! According to my friend, I must be the only person on the planet that didn't know the song. I decided to do an experiment...sort of like the Kermit one....nonscientific, that is....so I went to school..where my A/C had stopped working, btw...and proclamied loudly to my Kindergarteners..."IT'S GETTIN' HOT IN HERE!" Sure enough, several jumped in with "So take off all your clothes." or whatever it is..i was feeling pretty prudish..and uncool...SO...it's nice to know others....don't know it either. pssst....note: frydaddy knew who wrote it! :beer:

It won't have any impact on SLP's appeal.

[TopGunner]

I don’t claim to be a super sleuth, or psychic, so I can’t claim to know for sure what happened to Laci. But I have my ideas. My main course in this whole fiasco is and always has been the fact that Laci’s murder was NOT investigated properly and honestly and Scott was NOT proven guilty BARD. Not even close.

December 2002: The shelter or Food Bank in the park had been a draw to transient, sex offenders, parolees, homeless people, and yes, burglars. There had already been several incidents of theft reported on Covena. Laci had written emails to city employees trying to get an area closed to stop the flow of these people. It was reported that On several occasions she had accosted them. She had been warned by a retired judge neighbor to stay away from these people.

Research shows that the HIG were rampant in and around Modesto and there had been 2 near Covena. All the reports of these robberies had graphic details of beatings, rapes, and even killing the people they robbed. These gangs were feared by all who knew them. And people like Steven Todd would definitely know them and feared them. Steven Todd moved in those circles. And I don’t think he would hesitate to call on any of them if the booty from the Medinas could pay for their services. And it was. If MPD had not ordered the Medina safe destroyed, I think there would have been evidence found. There was absolutely no reason to do that!
* HIG robberies in Covena area are on a map which was published

Anyway, people on Covena had set up a staunch neighborhood watch program – enter Kim McGregor. I have always felt Kim’s involvement was a lookout for members of one or more of these gangs. Her boyfriend had a long criminal history and had no valid alibi for December 24th. When he came to court he brought the time records of his brother!
GERAGOS: In fact, you brought, I think Mr. Distaso asked you if he asked you to bring your work records. You brought your work records on your own today; isn't that correct?
LAOLAGI: Yeah. I was supposed to fax that, but I just now found them.
GERAGOS: And specifically you brought records, I show, that there's, you go by the name Matt. Do you also go by the name Warren?
LAOLAGI: That's my brother.
GERAGOS: Okay. Do you have the, there's some time cards here. It shows that Warren was working on the 24th. Is your time card in here?
LAOLAGI: No, I'm management. I am management. Part of the management
He had an undocumented letter signed by a “manager” that said he was at work that day. But NO TIME card like his brother, which he tried to pass off as his records.

As a member of this “neighborhood watch” Kim knew exactly when residents would be gone and knew the details of many of their possessions. And she knew the Medinas would be gone. And there is no doubt in my mind this is where it all began or rather ended for Laci. If Kim had a connection with Steven Todd, she could very well have been at the Medina house when Laci accosted Todd. And Laci knew her!
She very well could have become involved when Laci was “handed off” to the “dark skinned or Asian looking men” seen by Diane Jackson. I believe the 3 were Matt Laolagi and his 2 roommates who were Hawaiian/Samoan descent. When Kim broke into the house later on, the MPD reported very quickly "all items returned." But we know that wasn't true. And I NEVER read in any statement from MPD that Kim M. rifled the closets and stole clothes! I believe when Laci spotted the burglary in progress, she went straight to it. Without a second thought.

The prosecution’s own words in their response to the defense's motion for a new trial the robbery across the street at the Medina's took place on December 24, the day Laci went missing. After doing everything down to the ridiculous to make the public and the court believe it happened on the 26th. They HAD to get that burglary off that date to advance their theory – and they did.

I think after being caught by Laci what was Todd to do. They had no way of dealing with it and I believe the 3 men were called in to take her away from the scene. Where did all the things taken from the Medinas go? Todd and Pearce didn’t have it! Some of the jewelry I believe was returned, but no guns etc. There was a very important reason why they couldn’t just leave her there and make their getaway, and it may very well have been Kim McGregor’s involvement. Because Laci knew her.
Kim has a history of mental issues . At the time of the burglary, Kim was off her medication and drinking. Her interrogation by Brocchini is an absolute joke. And he is “protective” of her for whatever reason. He admitted that he sees her occasionally “when someone bothers her.” Her whereabouts is a total mystery.

I think Laci was taken to Tracy and held there for an undetermined period of time. One of the business locations where Matt Laolagi worked is in Tracy. I think she was seen on the way. A retired peace officer claims to have seen Laci squatting next to a van with two suspicious looking men. Why would he just make that up? Why would MPD dismiss his call without any concern? I believe the report of her being abused was correct. I think the person who called this information in quickly realized the MPD was going to do nothing! It was a great risk to do that and I’m sure they paid dearly. Matt Laogi’s employer was murdered after or during this trial. Was it him? Did he know too much? Diane Jackson didn't testify because she wasn't telling the truth, she was petrified! After all, she had the 3 men and LE to fear, because her story was glitch in this production.

I think after mulling over what to do about Laci, the story had taken on national attention. I think she was killed in Tracy. Whether to further conceal her identity or for whatever reason, I think the baby was taken out. The hole in the fundus and the broken ribs all line up together. I think she was dismembered – and those parts disposed of in Tracy. They burned when that area was burned. I think she was placed in that heavy plastic sheeting and the baby was placed in a bag and it was taped or tied to her, and they were transported to the Albany Bulb. It shouldn’t be a hard task, MPD says Scott did it in broad daylight. I believe she was concealed in some way that the wetting and drying process took place.

I think it was clear that LE was NEVER going to find those bodies searching the bay and the people involved in this knew it. With the finest of sonar equipment with the ability to find even a pin, a dime, and a schnapple bottle, yet no Laci. They wanted it to end and Scott was their perfect way out. All they had to do was give LE what they wanted – Laci’s body. They had no “real” evidence to convict Scott. Just a story contrived of secret boats, and anchors, and golfing vs fishing statements, unreliable cell phone records and affairs. They had to have a body. And it had to be found in or near the Bay.

The bodies were either released and floated to where they were found, or were placed on the shore. It’s a real stretch to believe Conner made it across the jetty and landed in one piece. But they could have been released from the Bulb, and separated in the waters. No significant attention was paid to the heavy plastic bag that smelled of death as per a witness, nor of the tape/twine around the baby’s neck. That was not important. The bodies had been found just where they needed to be.



The only problem with all of this Woo (and yes, I did read all of it), is that there was no means, no motive, no CE, no HE, and none of it is ground for appeal.:cool:

[woohoo]

I have 2 other thoughts on events that happened concerning the bodies being found and Conner's birth. If you believe it is proof positive that he exited from the hole in the fundus, and had remained in Laci's uterus until the storm, then that could also fit the scenario I described. The seperation took place when her body was released into the bay from the bulb.

And other thoughts on this scenario is these people had help! Not just in turning heads, leaking false information to the media, but HELP!

And though this will ire many of you, I think Brocchini was dirty. He had worked in the gangs unit many years. He had connections. He had a history of bending the law in court cases. It's on his record. He is the one who started this whole thing. He is the one who was determined to get Scott by any and all means. He wanted to close the case of the century and be the one to do it. And he was 1 of the detectives who got a commendation after the trial based on the Peterson case. There is no question that almost every single important detail performed by Brocchini during this investigation is questionable.

Can you imagine the bad press and lawsuits had anyone BUT Scott been implicated in this crime? It was not going to happen

Two things that still remain a mystery to me: The 2 reported "findings" of a body prior to April And the Zodiac man in the bay.

[TopGunner]

I have 2 other thoughts on events that happened concerning the bodies being found and Conner's birth. If you believe it is proof positive that he exited from the hole in the fundus, and had remained in Laci's uterus until the storm, then that could also fit the scenario I described. The seperation took place when her body was released into the bay from the bulb.

And other thoughts on this scenario is these people had help! Not just in turning heads, leaking false information to the media, but HELP!

And though this will ire many of you, I think Brocchini was dirty. He had worked in the gangs unit many years. He had connections. He had a history of bending the law in court cases. It's on his record. He is the one who started this whole thing. He is the one who was determined to get Scott by any and all means. He wanted to close the case of the century and be the one to do it. And he was 1 of the detectives who got a commendation after the trial based on the Peterson case. There is no question that almost every single important detail performed by Brocchini during this investigation is questionable.

Can you imagine the bad press and lawsuits had anyone BUT Scott been implicated in this crime? It was not going to happen

Two things that still remain a mystery to me: The 2 reported "findings" of a body prior to April And the Zodiac man in the bay.


Woo, I have family members that have been in law enforcement for over 40 years, and I assure you, there is no such thing as "bad press" for catching the guilty one.

Bad mouthing Brochinni is an easy out for the NG's, but they fail to understand that he did NOTHING unethical, nothing that affected the outcome of the trial even a tiny bit. He was Geregos' Furhman, but it didn't work. In the end, MG was the one who was exposed, not Brochinni.

ISP is in prison because he's guilty, not because HUNDREDS of people were in on a conspiracy.

Also, I'd like to add something to the comment I hear to often about the police not doing a thorough investigation. Nobody here would have any idea if that were true or not. Even the victims families were not privy to what went on in that investigation. Personally, if someone was cleared, I TRUST that the job was done well and done right.

I do not trust that anyone here has inside information that proves otherwise.

[Lavindar]

[QUOTE=woohoo;8923324]I don’t claim to be a super sleuth, or psychic, so I can’t claim to know for sure what happened to Laci. But I have my ideas. Based on NO validity at all.

My main course in this whole fiasco is and always has been the fact that Laci’s murder was NOT investigated properly and honestly and Scott was NOT proven guilty BARD. Not even close.

snipped for ridiculousness.


What a I challenge you to supply one iota of information to back up these ridiculous claims - for an example a list of the HIG burglaries that took place near Covena. I assure you there were none. IF you get the list from Marlene, beware, because I read her list and NONE of them were anywhere near Covena.

You really should look up HOME INVASION burglaries. They are done when the people ARE AT HOME
\
The rest of you information is pure supposition. There was no food bank feeding in the park. They do NOT do that. If there was a food giveaway, it's usually done at a hotel. Why would they give food away in the park in the RAINY season?????

I am not responding to this travesty of lies and speculations with not an iota of proof for any of it. You are now on ignore

[woohoo]

Woo, I have family members that have been in law enforcement for over 40 years, and I assure you, there is no such thing as "bad press" for catching the guilty one.

Bad mouthing Brochinni is an easy out for the NG's, but they fail to understand that he did NOTHING unethical, nothing that affected the outcome of the trial even a tiny bit. He was Geregos' Furhman, but it didn't work. In the end, MG was the one who was exposed, not Brochinni.

ISP is in prison because he's guilty, not because HUNDREDS of people were in on a conspiracy.

Also, I'd like to add something to the comment I hear to often about the police not doing a thorough investigation. Nobody here would have any idea if that were true or not. Even the victims families were not privy to what went on in that investigation. Personally, if someone was cleared, I TRUST that the job was done well and done right.

I do not trust that anyone here has inside information that proves otherwise.

Hi TG
I too, have family members in law enforcement. A brother and 2 nephews. And I don't make that statement about Brocchini lightly.
Fry had asked us to come up with a story that we felt could maybe explain what or why we believe what happened. That's what I did.

The reason I feel the way I do about Det. Brocchini's tactics was right from the gitgo he began planting the rumors to friends and relatives that were not true. This was an important time in the investigation and it caused a lot of damage as far as I am concerned. Time that could have been spent following up on leads instead of concentrating on only 1 person.

Naturally the first thought is the husband in a case like this, but I don't think he should have closed his mind to all others.
As always....IMO

[woohoo]

[QUOTE=woohoo;8923324]I don’t claim to be a super sleuth, or psychic, so I can’t claim to know for sure what happened to Laci. But I have my ideas. Based on NO validity at all.

My main course in this whole fiasco is and always has been the fact that Laci’s murder was NOT investigated properly and honestly and Scott was NOT proven guilty BARD. Not even close.

snipped for ridiculousness.


What a I challenge you to supply one iota of information to back up these ridiculous claims - for an example a list of the HIG burglaries that took place near Covena. I assure you there were none. IF you get the list from Marlene, beware, because I read her list and NONE of them were anywhere near Covena.

You really should look up HOME INVASION burglaries. They are done when the people ARE AT HOME
\
The rest of you information is pure supposition. There was no food bank feeding in the park. They do NOT do that. If there was a food giveaway, it's usually done at a hotel. Why would they give food away in the park in the RAINY season?????

I am not responding to this travesty of lies and speculations with not an iota of proof for any of it. You are now on ignore

Do you not read anyone's posts but yours and mine?

Frydaddy asked us to write a "story" of our own opinion about events. No links and any of the other things you have listed. But you obviously didnt read that.
THANK YOU FOR THE IGNORE!!! It is a relief.

[TopGunner]

Hi TG
I too, have family members in law enforcement. A brother and 2 nephews. And I don't make that statement about Brocchini lightly.
Fry had asked us to come up with a story that we felt could maybe explain what or why we believe what happened. That's what I did.

The reason I feel the way I do about Det. Brocchini's tactics was right from the gitgo he began planting the rumors to friends and relatives that were not true. This was an important time in the investigation and it caused a lot of damage as far as I am concerned. Time that could have been spent following up on leads instead of concentrating on only 1 person.

Naturally the first thought is the husband in a case like this, but I don't think he should have closed his mind to all others.
As always....IMO


Glad we have common ground Woo - family members in law enforcement. Ask them what their greatest tool is, and they're all going to tell you intuition. Ask them to tell you exactly how much time is "proper" before going after the one that's making their hinky meter scream, they'll tell you less than one second.

Brochinni started what rumors? About the insurance? IIRC, word on the street was that an insurance policy on Laci was found. Everyone went "ohhhhhhhhhhHHHH!" and before further comment could be made, as in, immediately, word on the street was it was a 2 year old policy, meant nothing. It sure never captured my attention. Did it ever occur to anyone that Brochinni didn't speak directly with the press, because I don't recall seeing him on TV or giving interviews.

If someone says Brochinni purposely planted evidence and was caught red handed, and can PROVE it, fine. I'll go with it. But all the pointing fingers means nothing, becasue it was crystal clear to me that MG's intention was to get the attention off his guilty client and onto someone else, using the 'ol "messy policework" line.

It was more than apparent and IMO didn't work.

[woohoo]

FRYDADDY'S POST!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

G's basically believe one story. Scott dumped Laci in the bay after killing her. You want them to not believe that story. So, rather than telling me again what's wrong with mine (as I already know your thoughts), tell me yours. Tell me in detail from Scott leaving the house until the bodies were found. I get the interruption of a burglary part. Take it from there. I need one story of when Conner was separated and why. One story of why they would hold her, kill her, dismember her, and transport her, along with how they did it. I guess what I am looking for is one plausible story that explains it all as reasonably as the Scott did it story does.

[ekg]

Muglers, ha ha ha!!!





A burglary across the street from Laci Peterson's home had nothing to do with the Modesto woman's disappearance, police confirmed Friday.
The announcement coincided with police saying they had arrested two suspects in the burglary and determined that they were not involved in the

missing-person case.

Detective Doug Ridenour said the men were booked late Thursday at Stanislaus County Jail.

Based on interviews with the suspects, police said the burglary on Covena Avenue in the La Loma neighborhood took place between 4 and 7 a.m. Dec. 26. Scott Peterson reported his pregnant wife missing about 6 p.m. Dec. 24.

Police previously had said possible scenarios for Peterson's disappearance included her interrupting a burglary at her house or being abducted after witnessing the crime across the street. At that time, police knew only that the burglary had occurred around Christmas, while the homeowners were away.

"We're confident in our minds that we have resolved one crime," Ridenour said Friday, "and now we can get back to focusing on Laci's disappearance."

Meanwhile, searchers also worked outside the county. The effort to find Peterson stretched into rural areas and waterways in Tuolumne, Calaveras, San Joaquin, Merced and Mariposa counties, Sgt. Ron Cloward said.

There were no significant developments Friday.

Several news agencies apparently reported incorrect information regarding a search and a purported arrest that led to the widespread circulation of rumors Friday, police said.

The rumor mill churned so heavily that, at about 4 p.m., District Attorney James Brazelton called Police Chief Roy Wasden to double-check that no arrest had been made in connection with Peterson's disappearance.

"I don't know where that information is coming from, but it's not accurate," Wasden said. "The only arrests have been the burglary suspects."

Detective George Stough said Steven Wayne Todd, 35, and Donald Glen Pearce, 44, were far more cooperative than suspects usually are with police.

"It was bad luck on their part," Stough said. (Steven Todd) said he was scared that he was going to be associated with Laci's disappearance."

Thursday, state parole officers received a tip from someone who directed police to Todd and Pearce, Stough said. They gave numerous statements and facts that checked out, convincing police that the two men were telling the truth.

Todd told investigators that he traveled the La Loma area often and recognized a home that looked empty the morning after Christmas. He said he and Pearce entered the home about

4 a.m. and stayed for about 3 1/2 hours, Stough said.

Police had not yet sealed off the house as part of their search, and officers had not taken up positions in the neighborhood at that early hour.

Todd said he saw several TV news trucks in the area, so he picked a different entry into the home. Police said the burglars carried a large safe out the front door and onto the front lawn. The safe contained $50,000 worth of jewelry and other items, according to police.


Todd saw the news vans....... so he picked a different door to break into.....and yet he went out the front door with the stolen safe?

why didn't he go back out the other doors that hid him from the news vans when he went in?

c'mon...... you guys can't believe that is reasonable...

[Lavindar]

Home Invasion

Breaking into or entering a home, apartment, or hotel room for the purpose of committing a criminal act while the resident(s) is present. While Asian gangs are best known for committing this crime, it is also committed by other kinds of gangs and by non-gang offenders. The reason for waiting to enter until the resident is present is to intimidate the resident so that no police report of the incident is made.

http://www.faculty.missouristate.edu/M/MichaelCarlie/Resources/glossary.htm


There was no evidence of any HIG at the Peterson residence (the jewelry in plain view and Scott saying nothing was out of the ordinary). The Medinas were not home so it couldn't have been a HIG - as there was no evidence that Todd or Pearce were gang members.

[Lavindar]

Todd saw the news vans....... so he picked a different door to break into.....and yet he went out the front door with the stolen safe?

why didn't he go back out the other doors that hid him from the news vans when he went in?

c'mon...... you guys can't believe that is reasonable... Certainly can. He needed a vehicle to remove the safe. He left it in the bushes and went to get a vehicle. There was no vehicle access from the back of the house. Look at a satellite map.

It was still dark out when they loaded the safe into the car. Covena is not a brightly lit street at night. The news vans were down the street near the corner and not manned during the night.

[TopGunner]

Todd saw the news vans....... so he picked a different door to break into.....and yet he went out the front door with the stolen safe?

why didn't he go back out the other doors that hid him from the news vans when he went in?

c'mon...... you guys can't believe that is reasonable...



Personally, yes, I totally believe the burglars had nothing to do with it. They turned themselves in. They were HELD in police custody (while someone was holding Laci underwater "somewhere" in order to frame her husband 4 months later, LOL), and the passed the lie detector tests. PASSED.

They had nothing to do with it, and everyone involved in the case from the LE, the Rocha's, the Peterson's, and the jurors have not come forward to say there's even a hint of doubt in regards to them. Even Geragross didn't pursue it.

Good enough for me! :D

[Lavindar]

Glad we have common ground Woo - family members in law enforcement. Ask them what their greatest tool is, and they're all going to tell you intuition. Ask them to tell you exactly how much time is "proper" before going after the one that's making their hinky meter scream, they'll tell you less than one second.

Brochinni started what rumors? About the insurance? IIRC, word on the street was that an insurance policy on Laci was found. Everyone went "ohhhhhhhhhhHHHH!" and before further comment could be made, as in, immediately, word on the street was it was a 2 year old policy, meant nothing. It sure never captured my attention. Did it ever occur to anyone that Brochinni didn't speak directly with the press, because I don't recall seeing him on TV or giving interviews.

If someone says Brochinni purposely planted evidence and was caught red handed, and can PROVE it, fine. I'll go with it. But all the pointing fingers means nothing, becasue it was crystal clear to me that MG's intention was to get the attention off his guilty client and onto someone else, using the 'ol "messy policework" line.

It was more than apparent and IMO didn't work.All press releases came from the Department, not from the detectives. All Brocchini did was to call people and tell them to read the Bee. He never planted anything. He would have been nailed on the spot for it by the Department.

[woohoo]

[QUOTE=TopGunner;8923400]snippedBrochinni started what rumors? About the insurance? IIRC, word on the street was that an insurance policy on Laci was found. Everyone went "ohhhhhhhhhhHHHH!" and before further comment could be made, as in, immediately, word on the street was it was a 2 year old policy, meant nothing. It sure never captured my attention. Did it ever occur to anyone that Brochinni didn't speak directly with the press, because I don't recall seeing him on TV or giving interviews.
QUOTE]

IMO Detective Brocchini was leaking rumors to the ModBee as part of his investigation tactics.
While I dont disagree with lying to a suspect by LE is wrong, lying to a friend of a suspect is wrong.

GERAGOS: Okay. Now, do you know who the police detectives who did that were?
BROCCHINI: That told,
GERAGOS: The family about this recent life insurance policy?
BROCCHINI: Yes.
GERAGOS: Who was that?
BROCCHINI: That was Detective Buehler and I told the Rochas, Detective Grogan and Owen told the Petersons.
GERAGOS: Now, the, did you call the Bee to tell them that wasn't true, the 250,000 dollar insurance policy had not been recently taken out?
BROCCHINI: If I called the Bee to tell them something was wrong in their articles, I would be spending my whole day every day calling about an article.
GERAGOS: Is that, is that a no?
BROCCHINI: That's a no.
GERAGOS: Okay. But you did spend that morning or at some point that morning calling one of Scott Peterson's friends to tell him to go read the Modesto Bee online, correct?
BROCCHINI: That is absolutely correct.
GERAGOS: And you did not tell him that the insurance policy information was incorrect, did you?
BROCCHINI: That is absolutely correct.

[Lavindar]

[QUOTE=TopGunner;8923400]snippedBrochinni started what rumors? About the insurance? IIRC, word on the street was that an insurance policy on Laci was found. Everyone went "ohhhhhhhhhhHHHH!" and before further comment could be made, as in, immediately, word on the street was it was a 2 year old policy, meant nothing. It sure never captured my attention. Did it ever occur to anyone that Brochinni didn't speak directly with the press, because I don't recall seeing him on TV or giving interviews.
QUOTE]

I see no proof that Brocchini linked that article to the Bee. He denies it in fact.

IMO Detective Brocchini was leaking rumors to the ModBee as part of his investigation tactics.
While I dont disagree with lying to a suspect by LE is wrong, lying to a friend of a suspect is wrong.

GERAGOS: Okay. Now, do you know who the police detectives who did that were?
BROCCHINI: That told,
GERAGOS: The family about this recent life insurance policy?
BROCCHINI: Yes.
GERAGOS: Who was that?
BROCCHINI: That was Detective Buehler and I told the Rochas, Detective Grogan and Owen told the Petersons.
GERAGOS: Now, the, did you call the Bee to tell them that wasn't true, the 250,000 dollar insurance policy had not been recently taken out?
BROCCHINI: If I called the Bee to tell them something was wrong in their articles, I would be spending my whole day every day calling about an article.
GERAGOS: Is that, is that a no?
BROCCHINI: That's a no.
GERAGOS: Okay. But you did spend that morning or at some point that morning calling one of Scott Peterson's friends to tell him to go read the Modesto Bee online, correct?
BROCCHINI: That is absolutely correct.
GERAGOS: And you did not tell him that the insurance policy information was incorrect, did you?
BROCCHINI: That is absolutely correct.
And that is evidence that he leaked it to the press? I don't think so Where did he lie to the family and friends? He just told them to read the BEE

[Miss Bootsie]

As far as I remember, it took a longtime for it to dry out..it really depends on a lot of factors, humidity is one of them...however, I don't agree with the comparison anyway...

But, you do agree the skinned area of the knee dried out the same day at a maximum, within a two to four hour period.

What does outside humidity have to do with the drying process in an enclosed building?
You don't agree the clothing had time to partially dry out, if not totally, before Dr. Peterson did his examination?

You don't agree with the comparison??
Dead tissue is dead tissue.
Whether on a live or dead body. The tissue is dead.

[frydaddy]

I don’t claim to be a super sleuth, or psychic, so I can’t claim to know for sure what happened to Laci. But I have my ideas. My main course in this whole fiasco is and always has been the fact that Laci’s murder was NOT investigated properly and honestly and Scott was NOT proven guilty BARD. Not even close.

December 2002: The shelter or Food Bank in the park had been a draw to transient, sex offenders, parolees, homeless people, and yes, burglars. There had already been several incidents of theft reported on Covena. Laci had written emails to city employees trying to get an area closed to stop the flow of these people. It was reported that On several occasions she had accosted them. She had been warned by a retired judge neighbor to stay away from these people.

Research shows that the HIG were rampant in and around Modesto and there had been 2 near Covena. All the reports of these robberies had graphic details of beatings, rapes, and even killing the people they robbed. These gangs were feared by all who knew them. And people like Steven Todd would definitely know them and feared them. Steven Todd moved in those circles. And I don’t think he would hesitate to call on any of them if the booty from the Medinas could pay for their services. And it was. If MPD had not ordered the Medina safe destroyed, I think there would have been evidence found. There was absolutely no reason to do that!
* HIG robberies in Covena area are on a map which was published

Anyway, people on Covena had set up a staunch neighborhood watch program – enter Kim McGregor. I have always felt Kim’s involvement was a lookout for members of one or more of these gangs. Her boyfriend had a long criminal history and had no valid alibi for December 24th. When he came to court he brought the time records of his brother!
GERAGOS: In fact, you brought, I think Mr. Distaso asked you if he asked you to bring your work records. You brought your work records on your own today; isn't that correct?
LAOLAGI: Yeah. I was supposed to fax that, but I just now found them.
GERAGOS: And specifically you brought records, I show, that there's, you go by the name Matt. Do you also go by the name Warren?
LAOLAGI: That's my brother.
GERAGOS: Okay. Do you have the, there's some time cards here. It shows that Warren was working on the 24th. Is your time card in here?
LAOLAGI: No, I'm management. I am management. Part of the management
He had an undocumented letter signed by a “manager” that said he was at work that day. But NO TIME card like his brother, which he tried to pass off as his records.

As a member of this “neighborhood watch” Kim knew exactly when residents would be gone and knew the details of many of their possessions. And she knew the Medinas would be gone. And there is no doubt in my mind this is where it all began or rather ended for Laci. If Kim had a connection with Steven Todd, she could very well have been at the Medina house when Laci accosted Todd. And Laci knew her!
She very well could have become involved when Laci was “handed off” to the “dark skinned or Asian looking men” seen by Diane Jackson. I believe the 3 were Matt Laolagi and his 2 roommates who were Hawaiian/Samoan descent. When Kim broke into the house later on, the MPD reported very quickly "all items returned." But we know that wasn't true. And I NEVER read in any statement from MPD that Kim M. rifled the closets and stole clothes! I believe when Laci spotted the burglary in progress, she went straight to it. Without a second thought.

The prosecution’s own words in their response to the defense's motion for a new trial the robbery across the street at the Medina's took place on December 24, the day Laci went missing. After doing everything down to the ridiculous to make the public and the court believe it happened on the 26th. They HAD to get that burglary off that date to advance their theory – and they did.

I think after being caught by Laci what was Todd to do. They had no way of dealing with it and I believe the 3 men were called in to take her away from the scene. Where did all the things taken from the Medinas go? Todd and Pearce didn’t have it! Some of the jewelry I believe was returned, but no guns etc. There was a very important reason why they couldn’t just leave her there and make their getaway, and it may very well have been Kim McGregor’s involvement. Because Laci knew her.
Kim has a history of mental issues . At the time of the burglary, Kim was off her medication and drinking. Her interrogation by Brocchini is an absolute joke. And he is “protective” of her for whatever reason. He admitted that he sees her occasionally “when someone bothers her.” Her whereabouts is a total mystery.

I think Laci was taken to Tracy and held there for an undetermined period of time. One of the business locations where Matt Laolagi worked is in Tracy. I think she was seen on the way. A retired peace officer claims to have seen Laci squatting next to a van with two suspicious looking men. Why would he just make that up? Why would MPD dismiss his call without any concern? I believe the report of her being abused was correct. I think the person who called this information in quickly realized the MPD was going to do nothing! It was a great risk to do that and I’m sure they paid dearly. Matt Laogi’s employer was murdered after or during this trial. Was it him? Did he know too much? Diane Jackson didn't testify because she wasn't telling the truth, she was petrified! After all, she had the 3 men and LE to fear, because her story was glitch in this production.

*snipped to fit 8000 character limit*



A few thoughts...

1) My request for a story that explained everything was exclusively to EKG in response to posts back and forth between her and myself. It's not that important to me either way, but please don't use me as the impetus for your story. Feel free to use me as the inspiration for such though! :D

2) This looks largely to be your opinion. I won't bother asking questions about your opinion. What was stated to be fact is that this investigation was not run properly. It's a statement that's been around since this case hit the airwaves. You can't possibly judge the investigation based only on what is public knowledge. It's the same argument as what is reasonable to a juror. It's subjective and you are judging it with only part of the investigation. Was it perfect...no. Was it as thorough as it should have been...maybe, maybe not, but with the sealed exhibits and the files that were never a part of discovery unknown to us, how can one make a statement of fact about it?

3) Two questions...How many times did Laci accost people by herself (without Scott)? What is the specific language in the motion that leads you to believe they admit the burglary occured on the 24th?

4) Regardless of what may be proven as fact regarding these culprits in your scenario, the frame/conspiracy/railroad grows even larger in this version of events. That's a lot of people who have to be speculated into the story and a lot to keep quiet from anonymous tips or confessions. Next to impossible, IMO!

[Lavindar]

Woo, I have family members that have been in law enforcement for over 40 years, and I assure you, there is no such thing as "bad press" for catching the guilty one.

Bad mouthing Brochinni is an easy out for the NG's, but they fail to understand that he did NOTHING unethical, nothing that affected the outcome of the trial even a tiny bit. He was Geregos' Furhman, but it didn't work. In the end, MG was the one who was exposed, not Brochinni.

ISP is in prison because he's guilty, not because HUNDREDS of people were in on a conspiracy.

Also, I'd like to add something to the comment I hear to often about the police not doing a thorough investigation. Nobody here would have any idea if that were true or not. Even the victims families were not privy to what went on in that investigation. Personally, if someone was cleared, I TRUST that the job was done well and done right.

I do not trust that anyone here has inside information that proves otherwise.

You know - if Brocchini's expertise was in the gang unit, then I would think he would have ruled that out first, not last. He did get in trouble in another case for TELLING THE TRUTH. It was information that was not allowed and that's why he is so maligned.

[woohoo]

Personally, yes, I totally believe the burglars had nothing to do with it. They turned themselves in. They were HELD in police custody (while someone was holding Laci underwater "somewhere" in order to frame her husband 4 months later, LOL), and the passed the lie detector tests. PASSED.

They had nothing to do with it, and everyone involved in the case from the LE, the Rocha's, the Peterson's, and the jurors have not come forward to say there's even a hint of doubt in regards to them. Even Geragross didn't pursue it.

Good enough for me! :D

I know it is widely reported that the burglars passed a lie detector test. But of course the results of that were never made public and no one from the defense team had any access to it. How does anyone know what questions were even asked. None of the results or any information about who did the testing - none of that was made public. Just a quick media release that they had passed. But HOW could they have passed when the prosecution even stated in a motion late in the trial that the burglary had happened on the 24th?

Even TODD himself had to have his dates clarified after he gave his statement to officer Hicks:
GERAGOS: Now, do you remember the day, I couldn't quite tell from the report, is that on the 2nd of January?
HICKS: Yes.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, you've got him, and I'm not going to belabor it, but you get him into the back of the car and you ask him about the burglary. And the first thing that he says here, I'll tell you about the burglary, but he had nothing to do with the woman, right?
HICKS: Yes.
GERAGOS: And then you asked him what woman he was talking about, right?
HICKS: Yes.
GERAGOS: And he said the missing woman with the baby, right?
HICKS: That's correct.
HICKS: He was confused about the date initially. It was clarified later it was actually the day after Christmas, which would have been the 26th.
GERAGOS: When he first gave you the story he told you the 27th, right?
HICKS: Yes.
HICKS: Right. The date was clarified in a separate property done by Detective Stough.

I always thought this statement was strange. Normally she would be decscribed as "pregnant" or just the "missing woman." But not as "the woman with the baby." JMPO

[woohoo]

A few thoughts...

1) My request for a story that explained everything was exclusively to EKG in response to posts back and forth between her and myself. It's not that important to me either way, but please don't use me as the impetus for your story. Feel free to use me as the inspiration for such though! :D

2) This looks largely to be your opinion. I won't bother asking questions about your opinion. What was stated to be fact is that this investigation was not run properly. It's a statement that's been around since this case hit the airwaves. You can't possibly judge the investigation based only on what is public knowledge. It's the same argument as what is reasonable to a juror. It's subjective and you are judging it with only part of the investigation. Was it perfect...no. Was it as thorough as it should have been...maybe, maybe not, but with the sealed exhibits and the files that were never a part of discovery unknown to us, how can one make a statement of fact about it?

3) Two questions...How many times did Laci accost people by herself (without Scott)? What is the specific language in the motion that leads you to believe they admit the burglary occured on the 24th?

4) Regardless of what may be proven as fact regarding these culprits in your scenario, the frame/conspiracy/railroad grows even larger in this version of events. That's a lot of people who have to be speculated into the story and a lot to keep quiet from anonymous tips or confessions. Next to impossible, IMO!

well then I misunderstood. I thought you had included everyone in the descriptive "g's." EKG herself even said "woo feel free to add or continue" (paraphrased) Also when I posted that I had to leave but would be back to respond - someone posted, "not to leave without responding" or something to that effect. I even posted that to do that would involve a call for links etc. If it was not meant to be responded to by anyone except ekg, I did NOT understand that!

It certainly did seem like it was an open invitation to just voice an opinion and not meant just for ekg. But since it was not - I apologize for intruding.

[woohoo]

A few thoughts...

snipped

3) Two questions...How many times did Laci accost people by herself (without Scott)? What is the specific language in the motion that leads you to believe they admit the burglary occured on the 24th?

4) Regardless of what may be proven as fact regarding these culprits in your scenario, the frame/conspiracy/railroad grows even larger in this version of events. That's a lot of people who have to be speculated into the story and a lot to keep quiet from anonymous tips or confessions. Next to impossible, IMO!

I don't believe it would take many people involved. Only those who participated and had the most to lose. These gangs are a tight nit group and no one "ratted" them out. I often wondered whatever happened to Sara Taberna who confessed she had the Peterson's checkbook that she traded to an Asian gang in turn for a place to sleep.

[Lavindar]

I know it is widely reported that the burglars passed a lie detector test. But of course the results of that were never made public and no one from the defense team had any access to it. How does anyone know what questions were even asked. None of the results or any information about who did the testing - none of that was made public. Just a quick media release that they had passed. But HOW could they have passed when the prosecution even stated in a motion late in the trial that the burglary had happened on the 24th?

Even TODD himself had to have his dates clarified after he gave his statement to officer Hicks:
GERAGOS: Now, do you remember the day, I couldn't quite tell from the report, is that on the 2nd of January?
HICKS: Yes.
GERAGOS: Okay. Now, you've got him, and I'm not going to belabor it, but you get him into the back of the car and you ask him about the burglary. And the first thing that he says here, I'll tell you about the burglary, but he had nothing to do with the woman, right?
HICKS: Yes.
GERAGOS: And then you asked him what woman he was talking about, right?
HICKS: Yes.
GERAGOS: And he said the missing woman with the baby, right?
HICKS: That's correct.
HICKS: He was confused about the date initially. It was clarified later it was actually the day after Christmas, which would have been the 26th.
GERAGOS: When he first gave you the story he told you the 27th, right?
HICKS: Yes.
HICKS: Right. The date was clarified in a separate property done by Detective Stough.

I always thought this statement was strange. Normally she would be decscribed as "pregnant" or just the "missing woman." But not as "the woman with the baby." JMPO

I think if you look at the early articles on the burglar yyou will find nothing about it occurring on the 24th. That's what Geragos planted with his smoke and mirrors.

When do two men with a non-violent history suddenly change into evil kidnappers and murderers who kidnap a woman (with no vehicle).

And the date change was from the 27th to the 26th NEVER the 24th.

However, on the 24th Geragos could toss the "safe" into the mix. Geragos smoke and mirrors at its best


And here's what was said about Laci accosting people


FLADAGER: Okay. And Mr. Geragos asked you a question about whether you were concerned about something Laci was doing. And is that based on something that her husband, the defendant in this case, and Laci said the two of them were doing together?
CORDOVA: I believe that's correct, yes.

[Miss Bootsie]

But, you do agree the skinned area of the knee dried out the same day at a maximum, within a two to four hour period.

What does outside humidity have to do with the drying process in an enclosed building?
You don't agree the clothing had time to partially dry out, if not totally, before Dr. Peterson did his examination?

You don't agree with the comparison??
Dead tissue is dead tissue.
Whether on a live or dead body. The tissue is dead.

Something else I wanted to ask.
We know that at the time Dr. Peterson performed his examination, he described the edges of the fundus as being friable and crumbly. By your definition, reduced to powder
Going by your theory the body was planted, how did that area that was friable (reduced to powder) and crumbly remain intact?
How did that area remain intact while being submerged in water along the shore-line?

[woohoo]

Originally Posted by frydaddy
A few thoughts...

snipped

3) Two questions...How many times did Laci accost people by herself (without Scott)? What is the specific language in the motion that leads you to believe they admit the burglary occured on the 24th?

****************************************
Response to questions: Reports of Laci accosting people was reported in newspapers. This judge was a neighbor of Laci's and although Geragos was having a hard time getting it into the trial record - this judge is the one who was quoted in newspaper reports saying he has warned Laci about accosting these people.

1) GERAGOS: After your conversation with Laci Peterson, were you concerned about some of the things she was doing in terms of confronting people?
FLADAGER: Objection.

GERAGOS: I'm asking for what,

JUDGE: His state of mind.

GERAGOS: Yeah.

JUDGE: It's overruled.

GERAGOS: Yeah. Did he cause you some concern about what she, the kind of boldness of what she was doing?

CORDOVA: Yes.

2) I'll try and find the motion.

[Lavindar]

Originally Posted by frydaddy
A few thoughts...

snipped

3) Two questions...How many times did Laci accost people by herself (without Scott)? What is the specific language in the motion that leads you to believe they admit the burglary occured on the 24th?

****************************************
Response to questions: Reports of Laci accosting people was reported in newspapers. This judge was a neighbor of Laci's and although Geragos was having a hard time getting it into the trial record - this judge is the one who was quoted in newspaper reports saying he has warned Laci about accosting these people.

1) GERAGOS: After your conversation with Laci Peterson, were you concerned about some of the things she was doing in terms of confronting people?
FLADAGER: Objection.

GERAGOS: I'm asking for what,

JUDGE: His state of mind.

GERAGOS: Yeah.

JUDGE: It's overruled.

GERAGOS: Yeah. Did he cause you some concern about what she, the kind of boldness of what she was doing?

CORDOVA: Yes.

2) I'll try and find the motion.



Again I repost

FLADAGER: Okay. And Mr. Geragos asked you a question about whether you were concerned about something Laci was doing. And is that based on something that her husband, the defendant in this case, and Laci said the two of them were doing together?

CORDOVA: I believe that's correct, yes.

THE INFORMATION THAT LACI ACCOSTED ANYONE CAME FROM SCOTT, the great truth-sayer (sarcasm intended)


And Cordova lives on Edgebrook I believe, which is NOT in the Covena neighborhood. IT's much more upscale.
And there was nothing reported in the papers about Cordova until he testified. I don't think you can post any either.

[TopGunner]

[QUOTE=TopGunner;8923400]snippedBrochinni started what rumors? About the insurance? IIRC, word on the street was that an insurance policy on Laci was found. Everyone went "ohhhhhhhhhhHHHH!" and before further comment could be made, as in, immediately, word on the street was it was a 2 year old policy, meant nothing. It sure never captured my attention. Did it ever occur to anyone that Brochinni didn't speak directly with the press, because I don't recall seeing him on TV or giving interviews.
QUOTE]

IMO Detective Brocchini was leaking rumors to the ModBee as part of his investigation tactics.
While I dont disagree with lying to a suspect by LE is wrong, lying to a friend of a suspect is wrong.

GERAGOS: Okay. Now, do you know who the police detectives who did that were?
BROCCHINI: That told,
GERAGOS: The family about this recent life insurance policy?
BROCCHINI: Yes.
GERAGOS: Who was that?
BROCCHINI: That was Detective Buehler and I told the Rochas, Detective Grogan and Owen told the Petersons.
GERAGOS: Now, the, did you call the Bee to tell them that wasn't true, the 250,000 dollar insurance policy had not been recently taken out?
BROCCHINI: If I called the Bee to tell them something was wrong in their articles, I would be spending my whole day every day calling about an article.
GERAGOS: Is that, is that a no?
BROCCHINI: That's a no.
GERAGOS: Okay. But you did spend that morning or at some point that morning calling one of Scott Peterson's friends to tell him to go read the Modesto Bee online, correct?
BROCCHINI: That is absolutely correct.
GERAGOS: And you did not tell him that the insurance policy information was incorrect, did you?
BROCCHINI: That is absolutely correct.


No offense Woo, but all this shows is that Brochinni told them to read the paper.

How this got twisted to "he planted lies in the media" is, well, you know.........

[woohoo]

[QUOTE=woohoo;8923324]I don’t claim to be a super sleuth, or psychic, so I can’t claim to know for sure what happened to Laci. But I have my ideas. Based on NO validity at all.

My main course in this whole fiasco is and always has been the fact that Laci’s murder was NOT investigated properly and honestly and Scott was NOT proven guilty BARD. Not even close.

snipped for ridiculousness.


What a I challenge you to supply one iota of information to back up these ridiculous claims - for an example a list of the HIG burglaries that took place near Covena. I assure you there were none. IF you get the list from Marlene, beware, because I read her list and NONE of them were anywhere near Covena.

You really should look up HOME INVASION burglaries. They are done when the people ARE AT HOME
\
The rest of you information is pure supposition. There was no food bank feeding in the park. They do NOT do that. If there was a food giveaway, it's usually done at a hotel. Why would they give food away in the park in the RAINY season?????

I am not responding to this travesty of lies and speculations with not an iota of proof for any of it. You are now on ignore

As I stated which you obviously didnt read all of it is basically my opinion based on some facts and research and MY OPINION!

As for the "food bank" maybe you misundersttand what I mean by that in your hasty reply. Of course they have giveaway food at the shelter and in the parks. You can read about it here and learn about the city government.
CITY OF MODESTO
PARKS, RECREATION AND NEIGHBORHOODS DEPARTMENT
Recreation & Neighborhood Services Division

http://www.ci.modesto.ca.us/fin/purchasing/pdf/Form03-04%20ESG.pdf

Furthermore the Order of The Silver Crescent at the time had an October "feed" in the park.

[woohoo]

[QUOTE=woohoo;8923425]


No offense Woo, but all this shows is that Brochinni told them to read the paper.

How this got twisted to "he planted lies in the media" is, well, you know.........

Yes it does prove that he told him to read the paper. But the devil is in the details. Brocchini knew the story was not true. He had known ALL THE DETAILS of that insurance policy since Dec. 26 or 27th. The policy was obtained in the search warrant and had been confirmed in detail by the insurance agent that it was guided more as a retirement plan for the Petersons.

Question: (Just asking) Have you ever really looked at all the "first rumors" that were printed in the media, that proved absolutely false?

[woohoo]

It's suppertime.
BBL

[Lavindar]

By John Coté
The Modesto Bee
Published Friday, September 12, 2003

A woman who underwent hypnosis told police she saw a suspicious tan van parked across the street from Scott and Laci Peterson's home the day Laci Peterson was reported missing, according to a report of the witness's account obtained Thursday.

The witness is the second person to undergo hypnosis in the investigation.

A doctor hypnotized Diane Jackson at the Modesto Police Department in an attempt to draw out more details. In a statement to police, Jackson also provided information that conflicts with authorities' version of a burglary that happened around the time Laci Peterson disappeared.

Jackson said Thursday she could not comment publicly about the sighting because members of Scott Peterson's defense team have informed her she will be subpoenaed as a witness, bringing her under a sweeping gag order imposed in the double-murder case.

But according to the report, Jackson told police she was driving to her home in Modesto's La Loma neighborhood at 11:40 a.m. on Dec. 24 when she saw three men standing near a tan van parked in front of 516 Covena Ave., directly across the street from the Peterson home. One rear van door was open, the other ajar.

That house was burglarized while residents Rudy and Susan Medina were out of town. Authorities said the home was burglarized on Dec. 26 at 6:30 a.m., according to police reports. The thieves made off with two firearms, tools and a safe containing jewelry, according to the reports.

On Jan. 2, authorities arrested two men, Steven Wayne Todd, 36, and Donald Glenn Pearce, 44, in connection with the burglary and said neither was connected to Laci Peterson's disappearance. Todd led police to some of the stolen property, including the safe, jewelry and a weed-eater, according to a police report.

"We're confident in our minds that we have resolved one crime," Modesto police detective Doug Ridenour said shortly after Todd and Pearce's arrest, "and now we can get back to focusing on Laci's disappearance." That search came to an end in April when Laci Peterson's body and that of her unborn son were found.

Scott Peterson told police he last saw his wife at about 9:30 a.m. that day as he left for the bay and she prepared to walk their couple's golden retriever. Peterson, 30, was arrested charged with two counts of murder. Police discounted reports of a suspicious van in the neighborhood, saying it belonged to landscapers.

Jackson's account to police indicates that she saw no landscaping equipment with the three men, whom she described as Hispanic or Asian. Todd and Pearce are white.

In interviewing Jackson, police displayed pictures of three men suspected of being the trio she spotted in front of the Medina home. The pictures were of men who previously performed yardwork for Jackson, and clearly different from the men Jackson saw in front of the Medina home, according to the account. That trio reportedly turned toward Jackson with malevolent looks as she drove by.

A doctor hypnotized Jackson at the Police Department in an attempt to draw
out more details. She reportedly recalled little else beyond perceiving a threat from the three men. But authorities believe a link between the men and Peterson's disappearance is tenuous. Petersons' dog, which her husband said Laci had taken for a walk, was found running loose more than an hour before Jackson saw the van.

A neighbor said she spotted the golden retriever, McKenzie, between 10:10 and 10:17 a.m., his leash attached and muddy. The woman said she returned the dog to its yard, not realizing there might be something amiss.

Peterson's defense team repeatedly has said they were searching for a tan or brown van after at least one other witness reported seeing one in the area around the time Peterson said his wife was going to walk their dog.

In June, law enforcement located a brown van that Peterson's defense claimed may have been involved in the case. The van's occupants agreed to let investigators examine the vehicle, and it was towed to the state crime lab in Ripon, according to the Stanislaus County district attorney's office.

Authorities investigated several people associated with the van and determined that they had no involvement in Peterson's disappearance, according to prosecutors.

Kristen Dempewolf, 33, is the other person known to have been hypnotized in the investigation.Dempewolf was at about the same stage of pregnancy as Peterson at the time Peterson disappeared and also lives in the neighborhood. Prosecutors have indicated that they intend to introduce testimony from Dempewolf.

See how fast Geragos put her on the defense witness list so she couldn't talk. I see no safe mentioned in this article and the article was BEFORE Geragos tried to toss in the safe and the changed date of the burglary.

[woohoo]

And Cordova lives on Edgebrook I believe, which is NOT in the Covena neighborhood. IT's much more upscale.
And there was nothing reported in the papers about Cordova until he testified. I don't think you can post any either.

Sorry-you are wrong lady. He was a member of the neighborhood watch and I don't know if he was called by name in the papers but he was clearly in the papers before he testified in court.

He's the man who found the sandals - and it was reported in the media!!!!!

[woohoo]

[QUOTE=woohoo;8923425]


No offense Woo, but all this shows is that Brochinni told them to read the paper.

How this got twisted to "he planted lies in the media" is, well, you know.........

But the harm was he told the Rochas about "a recent insurance policy." And he led Richardson to believe the same. When he knew full well it was not recent. What was his motive? Why not just let the true facts speak for themselves?

[woohoo]

I'm outta here!

[frydaddy]

well then I misunderstood. I thought you had included everyone in the descriptive "g's." EKG herself even said "woo feel free to add or continue" (paraphrased) Also when I posted that I had to leave but would be back to respond - someone posted, "not to leave without responding" or something to that effect. I even posted that to do that would involve a call for links etc. If it was not meant to be responded to by anyone except ekg, I did NOT understand that!

It certainly did seem like it was an open invitation to just voice an opinion and not meant just for ekg. But since it was not - I apologize for intruding.

LOL - And people wonder how board battles start. I was not trying to attach a stigma to you for responding with your story, I was merely trying to point out that my request at that time was related to an ongoing conversation with EKG. I wanted to hear her story based on previous answers and comments she had given, to help me better understand her logic.

So, no apology necessary on my end! :)

[Lavindar]

[QUOTE=Lavindar;8923389]

As I stated which you obviously didnt read all of it is basically my opinion based on some facts and research and MY OPINION!

As for the "food bank" maybe you misundersttand what I mean by that in your hasty reply. Of course they have giveaway food at the shelter and in the parks. You can read about it here and learn about the city government.
CITY OF MODESTO
PARKS, RECREATION AND NEIGHBORHOODS DEPARTMENT
Recreation & Neighborhood Services Division

http://www.ci.modesto.ca.us/fin/purchasing/pdf/Form03-04%20ESG.pdf





Furthermore the Order of The Silver Crescent at the time had an October "feed" in the park. WHAT PARK????????

You poST A DOCUMENT FOR YEARS 2003-2004 not 2002. That tells me
nothing about giving away food in the cold and rain in an open park in 2002.

What IS the Order of the Silver Crescent and a link to them providing a "feed" in the park. October, by the way is NOT December weather wise.

December is COLD and FOGGY and RAINY. Great time to feed people in an open park isn't it.

[caphill]

I think if you look at the early articles on the burglar yyou will find nothing about it occurring on the 24th. That's what Geragos planted with his smoke and mirrors.

When do two men with a non-violent history suddenly change into evil kidnappers and murderers who kidnap a woman (with no vehicle).

And the date change was from the 27th to the 26th NEVER the 24th.

Snipped for space

.

The current horrific murders of the Petit family was done by two thugs who had no prior history of violence. It seems they had no car as they were apprehended leaving the burning house in the Petit car. My theory of why they killed this family is the fear of leaving them alive to later ID them. The perps spent some hours with this family and forced the mother to the bank for cash. After coming back from the bank they were faced with these 4 witnesses. IMO, that doesn't leave many choices in the mind of a thug.

Since Todd voiced concerns about being linked to the " missing woman with the baby", IMO, he wanted to pick a date that was anything but the 24th. Again, IMO, he had to change the date when when he realized the Medina's were back home by 27th.

I wouldn't put too much stock in anything Todd said as he was a known low life with a long criminial history.

[Lavindar]

[QUOTE=TopGunner;8923523]

But the harm was he told the Rochas about "a recent insurance policy." And he led Richardson to believe the same. When he knew full well it was not recent. What was his motive? Why not just let the true facts speak for themselves?


Did you post that testimony? And definie "recent."

[Lavindar]

The current horrific murders of the Petit family was done by two thugs who had no prior history of violence. It seems they had no car as they were apprehended leaving the burning house in the Petit car. My theory of why they killed this family is the fear of leaving them alive to later ID them. The perps spent some hours with this family and forced the mother to the bank for cash. After coming back from the bank they were faced with these 4 witnesses. IMO, that doesn't leave many choices in the mind of a thug.

Since Todd voiced concerns about being linked to the " missing woman with the baby", IMO, he wanted to pick a date that was anything but the 24th. Again, IMO, he had to change the date when when he realized the Medina's were back home by 27th.

I wouldn't put too much stock in anything Todd said as he was a known low life with a long criminial history.

Of course you wouldn't. But he has NO history of violent crime. And I did post an article in September of 2003 about Jackson and there is NO safe in mentioned in the article and it clearly states the burglary was on the 26th

NAny articles during the trial were posted by defense leaks to the press - I evwen read one that said "a defense source" says that Diane Jackson saw a safe. Yet that is NOT what she told the defense investigator or the police

[frydaddy]

I don't believe it would take many people involved. Only those who participated and had the most to lose. These gangs are a tight nit group and no one "ratted" them out. I often wondered whatever happened to Sara Taberna who confessed she had the Peterson's checkbook that she traded to an Asian gang in turn for a place to sleep.


Perhaps the number involved and what constitutes a lot is a relative and subjective number. If I were to go back on this board and list the names of the people who were involved in any way with the burglary theory in general, how many is there?

[Lavindar]

The current horrific murders of the Petit family was done by two thugs who had no prior history of violence. It seems they had no car as they were apprehended leaving the burning house in the Petit car. My theory of why they killed this family is the fear of leaving them alive to later ID them. The perps spent some hours with this family and forced the mother to the bank for cash. After coming back from the bank they were faced with these 4 witnesses. IMO, that doesn't leave many choices in the mind of a thug.

Since Todd voiced concerns about being linked to the " missing woman with the baby", IMO, he wanted to pick a date that was anything but the 24th. Again, IMO, he had to change the date when when he realized the Medina's were back home by 27th.

I wouldn't put too much stock in anything Todd said as he was a known low life with a long criminial history. And this relates to the Peterson case how?????? Did Todd steal Laci's car, too??? and it was never reported?????

[Lavindar]

bumBy John Coté
The Modesto Bee
Published Friday, September 12, 2003

A woman who underwent hypnosis told police she saw a suspicious tan van parked across the street from Scott and Laci Peterson's home the day Laci Peterson was reported missing, according to a report of the witness's account obtained Thursday.

The witness is the second person to undergo hypnosis in the investigation.

A doctor hypnotized Diane Jackson at the Modesto Police Department in an attempt to draw out more details. In a statement to police, Jackson also provided information that conflicts with authorities' version of a burglary that happened around the time Laci Peterson disappeared.

Jackson said Thursday she could not comment publicly about the sighting because members of Scott Peterson's defense team have informed her she will be subpoenaed as a witness, bringing her under a sweeping gag order imposed in the double-murder case.

But according to the report, Jackson told police she was driving to her home in Modesto's La Loma neighborhood at 11:40 a.m. on Dec. 24 when she saw three men standing near a tan van parked in front of 516 Covena Ave., directly across the street from the Peterson home. One rear van door was open, the other ajar.

That house was burglarized while residents Rudy and Susan Medina were out of town. Authorities said the home was burglarized on Dec. 26 at 6:30 a.m., according to police reports. The thieves made off with two firearms, tools and a safe containing jewelry, according to the reports.

On Jan. 2, authorities arrested two men, Steven Wayne Todd, 36, and Donald Glenn Pearce, 44, in connection with the burglary and said neither was connected to Laci Peterson's disappearance. Todd led police to some of the stolen property, including the safe, jewelry and a weed-eater, according to a police report.

"We're confident in our minds that we have resolved one crime," Modesto police detective Doug Ridenour said shortly after Todd and Pearce's arrest, "and now we can get back to focusing on Laci's disappearance." That search came to an end in April when Laci Peterson's body and that of her unborn son were found.

Scott Peterson told police he last saw his wife at about 9:30 a.m. that day as he left for the bay and she prepared to walk their couple's golden retriever. Peterson, 30, was arrested charged with two counts of murder. Police discounted reports of a suspicious van in the neighborhood, saying it belonged to landscapers.

Jackson's account to police indicates that she saw no landscaping equipment with the three men, whom she described as Hispanic or Asian. Todd and Pearce are white.

In interviewing Jackson, police displayed pictures of three men suspected of being the trio she spotted in front of the Medina home. The pictures were of men who previously performed yardwork for Jackson, and clearly different from the men Jackson saw in front of the Medina home, according to the account. That trio reportedly turned toward Jackson with malevolent looks as she drove by.

A doctor hypnotized Jackson at the Police Department in an attempt to draw
out more details. She reportedly recalled little else beyond perceiving a threat from the three men. But authorities believe a link between the men and Peterson's disappearance is tenuous. Petersons' dog, which her husband said Laci had taken for a walk, was found running loose more than an hour before Jackson saw the van.

A neighbor said she spotted the golden retriever, McKenzie, between 10:10 and 10:17 a.m., his leash attached and muddy. The woman said she returned the dog to its yard, not realizing there might be something amiss.

Peterson's defense team repeatedly has said they were searching for a tan or brown van after at least one other witness reported seeing one in the area around the time Peterson said his wife was going to walk their dog.

In June, law enforcement located a brown van that Peterson's defense claimed may have been involved in the case. The van's occupants agreed to let investigators examine the vehicle, and it was towed to the state crime lab in Ripon, according to the Stanislaus County district attorney's office.

Authorities investigated several people associated with the van and determined that they had no involvement in Peterson's disappearance, according to prosecutors.

Kristen Dempewolf, 33, is the other person known to have been hypnotized in the investigation.Dempewolf was at about the same stage of pregnancy as Peterson at the time Peterson disappeared and also lives in the neighborhood. Prosecutors have indicated that they intend to introduce testimony from Dempewolf.

See how fast Geragos put her on the defense witness list so she couldn't talk. I see no safe mentioned in this article and the article was BEFORE Geragos tried to toss in the safe and the changed date of the burglary.

bumped for those too lazy to go back and read

[frydaddy]

The current horrific murders of the Petit family was done by two thugs who had no prior history of violence. It seems they had no car as they were apprehended leaving the burning house in the Petit car. My theory of why they killed this family is the fear of leaving them alive to later ID them. The perps spent some hours with this family and forced the mother to the bank for cash. After coming back from the bank they were faced with these 4 witnesses. IMO, that doesn't leave many choices in the mind of a thug.

Since Todd voiced concerns about being linked to the " missing woman with the baby", IMO, he wanted to pick a date that was anything but the 24th. Again, IMO, he had to change the date when when he realized the Medina's were back home by 27th.

I wouldn't put too much stock in anything Todd said as he was a known low life with a long criminial history.

It was only a matter of time before this post arrived...it was as predictable as the sun rising tomorrow!

[ekg]

FRY..... you ask too many questions and I answer too many questions...LOL so this will have to be in 2 posts.....LOLOL

again, for the record........ I am being asked what I THINK and why I THINK it and to give a scenario that I THINK could have happened....this is ONLY MY OPINION...

also, Mock,Demand,Belittle if you will.... but you will be ignored... I am being asked a series of questions by someone I respect( as much as I can given our limited contact).. To be interested in the 'other' side is fine, to ask the 'other' side to explain themselves is even better.... to mock,joke,disrespect and/or belittle that person once they have given you what you asked for is not fine IMO...

so please, lets for once put the hurtful, snide comments in a PM... ok?




This is my issue! You have three stories, yet you can’t get fully behind any one of them. However, you are nearly certain one of them is right and the Scott did it one is wrong. Yet there is much more CE of Scott doing it than any of the other three.

no, I can't get behind any of them 100% and that includes Scott.. just too many questions left unanswered for me for all of them



What do you base the burglars being in the HIG gang on? No link is necessary, just an answer will suffice.

there were alot of articles on them back when the trial was going on..I wish I could give you the A=b-c... But I can't...I remember some names but I can't connect them so I won't even add them to the confusion...:shrug:

I want to say that Todd was linked to Dion Milam (http://www.adl.org/learn/news/Dion_Milam.asp) somehow... but I can't fully remember...... Dion could have been linked to the woman Perry Monroe killed, I just don't remember all the information from that far ago.. I wish the 10 mile thread had been archived if only for all it's links...b/c I do remember a link with Todd and the gang...



Why did they abduct Laci?

either b/c she saw them... or just b/c...
the HIG gang was a pretty nasty gang.. I wish I could find all the past articles on them......
but they could have been in the process of taking her when KS came into the back yard.... that could have been the noises she heard...

DJ saw 3 men by a van..Laci could have walked right up on them.... the HIG was known for home-invasions... it's possible KS scared them off and the took Laci b/c she could ID them.... this isn't some fanciful story b/c aw2b posted where the exact same thing just happened recently.... so why it's crazy for it to happen in this case IDK



Where did they abduct Laci?

around her house.. either as she was walking by or as she was coming in...



Either the van or the car, which van and which car?

DJ saw a van.......Todd and Pearce had a corsica


Why would one snitch but then drop it, figuring he’d done his best?

b/c when "he" snitched she was still alive.. but when she died, the possible murder charge scared 'him' into stfu...:shrug:

we're not talking about upstanding ppl here either.... 'he' may have had a momentary lapse of weakness when he called in the tip


Why wasn’t the tip more accurate if the dude was in on it?

it was a vague description of the road.... but also a description of the house she was in and 2 other houses around her... Tracy is about 40 miles away, so maybe the 'tipster' didn't know the roads very well and could only ID the houses

here's the tip from the trial

69. Okay. And my understanding is that the tip was is that she was being held in a rural residence with two white houses, a white broken down pickup truck in front of one of the houses, and a storage container in the rear, and that she was being held in the rear of the residence, and was being abused; is that correct?

70. I think it's actually that she was being held in the storage container. I would have to look real quick.

71. Sure. If that will refresh your recollection. I assume you are looking at 3025 and 3056?

72. That's correct. And that victim Peterson was being held in the storage container to the rear of the residence

seems like they knew the house but maybe not the road to get there..




The burglars could wrap and tape Laci, but Scott couldn’t, even though be had stuff in his warehouse for just that? Was this after or before the drum. Be kinda messy if after.

yes, before...

why couldn't Scott have taped her?



why couldn't the burglars? I have about 6 rolls of duct tape... I presume everyone in FL does b/c it's on the hurricane supply list. I would think that it's also on an earth-quake supply list, so I don't think Scott having any is a big deal..



A 55g drum of what liquid?

What liquid would wash away 100% with seawater, leaving no trace, yet simulate decomp exactly as seawater would?

she only needed to be in water... I think the saltwater was narrowed down b/c of the barnacles and where she was found.... and if she had been in just regular water and then dumped by the shore and washed out into the bay, she'd get the barnacles within just a few hrs and any 'fresh' water would be washed away..

I guess we could know for 100% by testing her clothes or something couldn't we?? but as of right now, she didn't have to be in salt-water the whole time IMO...


Where does one find a drum like that?

any 55g drum will do..... there all over the place.......and what kind of 'storage container' was she being held in, in the tip that was called in?

another murderer put the body of his wife in one moved it months later.... his name and info has been posted a few times by me and aw2b....I'd give it to you again, but I'm having a brain-toot right now and can't remember....grrrr




LE was getting close to what? You just said they blew off the tip.

Who’s tail were they on, MPD supposedly only focused on Scott

Across from where Scott was…which spot? Where was there target dump site prior to the storm that moved her?


IMO they were only focused on him... but with the tip being called in who knows... maybe they just wanted to get rid of the body.. you have to admit, anyone having that body(or any body for that matter) would want to get rid of it in a way that couldn't be connected to them...... and it wouldn't take a whole lot of brilliance to figure out where they needed to put it.... across the water from Brooks Island..... right where she was found... right where Scott said he was..

the container was dumped where connor was found...... Connor looked like he washed up from Brooks... but Laci didn't.. her origination couldn't be tracked from Brooks...

but she gets washed out from where her and Connor are dumped..and she washes a little ways away from him.....her trajectory doesn't match his remember..why not? by all accounts it should match... she should match atleast to where his 'starting off/their separation' point.... but she doesn't...why?



Her parts fell off solely from the storm? What about the parts from the coffin birth, the placenta and umbilical cord…everything that was gone was gone from the storm…Conner washed up, but none of her limbs would?

sure.... why not.. they didn't wash up in your theory either..*shrug*

..

[Lavindar]

FRY..... you ask too many questions and I answer too many questions...LOL so this will have to be in 2 posts.....LOLOL

again, for the record........ I am being asked what I THINK and why I THINK it and to give a scenario that I THINK could have happened....this is ONLY MY OPINION...

also, Mock,Demand,Belittle if you will.... but you will be ignored... I am being asked a series of questions by someone I respect( as much as I can given our limited contact).. To be interested in the 'other' side is fine, to ask the 'other' side to explain themselves is even better.... to mock,joke,disrespect and/or belittle that person once they have given you what you asked for is not fine IMO...

so please, lets for once put the hurtful, snide comments in a PM... ok?






no, I can't get behind any of them 100% and that includes Scott.. just too many questions left unanswered for me for all of them




there were alot of articles on them back when the trial was going on..I wish I could give you the A=b-c... But I can't...I remember some names but I can't connect them so I won't even add them to the confusion...:shrug:

I want to say that Todd was linked to Dion Milam (http://www.adl.org/learn/news/Dion_Milam.asp) somehow... but I can't fully remember...... Dion could have been linked to the woman Perry Monroe killed, I just don't remember all the information from that far ago.. I wish the 10 mile thread had been archived if only for all it's links...b/c I do remember a link with Todd and the gang...




either b/c she saw them... or just b/c...
the HIG gang was a pretty nasty gang.. I wish I could find all the past articles on them......
but they could have been in the process of taking her when KS came into the back yard.... that could have been the noises she heard...

DJ saw 3 men by a van..Laci could have walked right up on them.... the HIG was known for home-invasions... it's possible KS scared them off and the took Laci b/c she could ID them.... this isn't some fanciful story b/c aw2b posted where the exact same thing just happened recently.... so why it's crazy for it to happen in this case IDK




around her house.. either as she was walking by or as she was coming in...




DJ saw a van.......Todd and Pearce had a corsica



b/c when "he" snitched she was still alive.. but when she died, the possible murder charge scared 'him' into stfu...:shrug:

we're not talking about upstanding ppl here either.... 'he' may have had a momentary lapse of weakness when he called in the tip



it was a vague description of the road.... but also a description of the house she was in and 2 other houses around her... Tracy is about 40 miles away, so maybe the 'tipster' didn't know the roads very well and could only ID the houses

here's the tip from the trial


seems like they knew the house but maybe not the road to get there..





yes, before...

why couldn't Scott have taped her?



why couldn't the burglars? I have about 6 rolls of duct tape... I presume everyone in FL does b/c it's on the hurricane supply list. I would think that it's also on an earth-quake supply list, so I don't think Scott having any is a big deal..




she only needed to be in water... I think the saltwater was narrowed down b/c of the barnacles and where she was found.... and if she had been in just regular water and then dumped by the shore and washed out into the bay, she'd get the barnacles within just a few hrs and any 'fresh' water would be washed away..

I guess we could know for 100% by testing her clothes or something couldn't we?? but as of right now, she didn't have to be in salt-water the whole time IMO...



any 55g drum will do..... there all over the place.......and what kind of 'storage container' was she being held in, in the tip that was called in?

another murderer put the body of his wife in one moved it months later.... his name and info has been posted a few times by me and aw2b....I'd give it to you again, but I'm having a brain-toot right now and can't remember....grrrr






IMO they were only focused on him... but with the tip being called in who knows... maybe they just wanted to get rid of the body.. you have to admit, anyone having that body(or any body for that matter) would want to get rid of it in a way that couldn't be connected to them...... and it wouldn't take a whole lot of brilliance to figure out where they needed to put it.... across the water from Brooks Island..... right where she was found... right where Scott said he was..

the container was dumped where connor was found...... Connor looked like he washed up from Brooks... but Laci didn't.. her origination couldn't be tracked from Brooks...

but she gets washed out from where her and Connor are dumped..and she washes a little ways away from him.....her trajectory doesn't match his remember..why not? by all accounts it should match... she should match atleast to where his 'starting off/their separation' point.... but she doesn't...why?




sure.... why not.. they didn't wash up in your theory either..*shrug*

..

Does anyone realize that Brooks Island has live-in residents and tours given. I believe it's a sanctuary of some sort. What's with the fascination with HIG gans when I clearly posted what they were and that there was no evidence of the Peterson house being burglarized in any way shape or form.

KS reported hearing "raking" sounds not struggling sounds and testified that they came from a different neighbor's yard

[ekg]

PART 2


She would have given coffin birth and decomposed the same way folded into a 55g drum?

I don't know.. this is moo

for the coffin birth? sure...I think it could happen that way

the decomp? IDK.as I said I want to find an expert to discuss this with so I can know for sure




Some of the same questions apply from the above story. Add to those the following comments and questions.

some of those details can match all three 3 stories....the biggest change is the who



Didn’t Kim pass a poly. (I know…poly’s are unreliable, not admissible, and easily tricked, she is the third somewhat deviant character in this case that took one and likely tricked it.) To be fair, my memory on her taking one may be faulty, so this is a statement than someone can mock back, potentially. I’m too lazy to verify this morning.

no, I'm pretty sure it was inconclusive..


Kim pulled off the perfect frame in history, but left a coffee cup at the house?

she went back to the house that night remember....... maybe she was drunk when she kidnapped Laci, we know she went 'nutty' when she drank....

there is a pic of that cup in LE photos.... but is it still there now(not now-now of course...you know what I mean)...... When Kim happened along that night and interjected herself into the crime scene.... was it b/c she knew she needed to get that coffee cup?

and what did she interject herself to do???? make coffee...


Where did Kim encounter Laci to do this?

as I said...... Kim said that she would see Laci walking in front of her house by the Gallo place.... she's a nut.. crazy women have befriended pregnant women before and harmed them.... maybe she struck up a conversation with Laci during those walks... IDK, maybe she just saw her and became obsessed....

also, I need some verification on this....... But I think Kim M b/f was Hawaiian and he hung around with 2 other dark skinned(but not black) ppl..

if it wasn't Kim who had this connection to the 3 dark-skinned guys I completely apologize.. I know they can be connected with someone in this case... and I think/thought it was her...



When did Kim encounter Laci to do this?



Clark was an alcoholic drug user in rehab. He didn’t start construction job near Laci’s house until October. The location where they met to load up for the construction jobs was a significant distance from Laci’s walk path, too significant a distance to know it was Laci, whom he had never met. His tip was called in after Laci and Conner were found and identified, after Scott was arrested. You think a dude with a substance abuse problem is going to hear nothing on the news about Laci for six months, read a Modesto Bee article based on sightings we already know was bunk, THEN call the tip line with pertinent information that he recalls with total clarity from six months earlier? Clark didn’t want to get involved and he wasn’t called as a witness – so I’d say he’s irrelevant.

no actually I don't buy his story.....even tho I think it was corroborated???? by someone else????? but the fact that he works for Kim M step-dad and with her brother is such an odd coincidence don't you think? why does this person and ppl she knows keep interjecting themselves into this case?




From what little I know about Perry Monroe…his profile doesn’t fit the type of person capable of a murder AND flawless frame job. I’m totally going off sketchy memory, but wasn’t he arrested with a pair of human hands in his car? He keeps hands from one murder, but calculates and executes the perfect frame of Scott? Makes no sense really…like most stories…a lot of coincidence stitched together to come up with something to divert the eyes from Scott.

thats the thing.... we don't know anything about this guy....... except that he was found with a hand in his car..... and that his victim had her head,arms and leg removed and was found in a body of water...(that head has never been found either IIRC)

we know he lived and went to school in Almeda which is a stones throw from where Laci and Connor washed up

we know that Evelyn Hernandez resembled Laci with the Dark hair, olive skin and pregnant... and she washed up in the same condition in the same area..

we know that Perry Monroe was in Fresno b/c he was caught there...

but since he's been in a nut-house he hasn't been interviewed by LE or had a trial yet.....(LE says their only interview of was very bizarre b/c he claims to have never lft CA so they can't get anywhere with him....) who knows what this guy was capable of....

but the circumstance of having a serial killer in the area that liked to cut off the heads and hide it..cut off the arms, and leg of his victim... and 2 almost identical remains of 2 very similar victims washing up just miles from his stomping grounds and him being in another area in Davis where some bones were found is enough to give me pause....

read this link...... Maybe it can show you why I want further investigation into Perry Monroe..

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=33788


so in this case against Scott..... we have a man with no criminal record... not even a traffic ticket.... everyone around him believes he and his wife are the ideal perfect couple full of love and adoration for each other(puke all you want but you can't deny that this is what ppl thought before dec. 24th).. a guy who all of a sudden commits a crime that there is no proof of, except for some arguable CE that could just show he was hiding an affair/affairS and not a murder..

or you have members of an extremely violent home invasion gang, robbing a house across the street.. you have a witness who heard noises from the back of the house and when she went back there they noises stopped so she assumed she was hearing them from another neighbors house....

you have a women who becomes(or already was) obsessed with Scott Peterson... and unstable women, under the care of a shrink and taking meds... who gets violent and weird when she drinks... a woman who interjects herself into this case from the 1st minute.... who also has access to medical supplies and has atleast a limited medical background...... a woman who took a LDT and didn't pass or fail.... a woman who lied to LE when she was caught breaking into the Peterson house.... who admittedly tried on some clothes of Laci, possibly even the wedding gown.... and who left without her pants on b/c they were found in the house IIRC..

and you have a possible serial killer....... you definitely have 2 pregnant women with brown hair and olive skin go missing and being found in the same condition in the same area... but also have a potential serial killer also...who lived a stones throw from where those 2 pregnant women washed up, a killer who was caught with his victims hands in his possession... a victim whose head is missing and whose dismembered torso,arms and leg are found in a pond...

a possible serial killer caught in Frenso that has been ruled incompetent and shut away in a nut-house since his arrest... who hasn't been questioned b/c he to F'd up in the head....

and yet you are 100% sure Scott Peterson did this???

could all the CE against Scott been b/c he was hiding an affair(or a hiding a wife from his lover) and not a murder...(if the boat wasn't a secret that is...)


hopefully this is what you asked for...... if not my fingers may revolt :lol: ....LOL

but this is why I can't jump to your side 100%...... of course you won't find anything I say believable..... but I think you are too polite to actually call is balderdash...LOL... but IMO, the theory given as to how and why Scott did it..... is just as questionable to me...

[The R]

bum

bumped for those too lazy to go back and read

Sorry for blasting in when I've never posted on the Peterson forum, but found this interesting and wanted to ask a question. Is this info from a hypnosis session admissible as evidence?

TIA and ALLMO,
R

[Rachel Cory]

Link to this information please.
www.peoplefinders.com. Go for it.

[ekg]

Does anyone realize that Brooks Island has live-in residents and tours given. I believe it's a sanctuary of some sort. What's with the fascination with HIG gans when I clearly posted what they were and that there was no evidence of the Peterson house being burglarized in any way shape or form.

KS reported hearing "raking" sounds not struggling sounds and testified that they came from a different neighbor's yard

raking sounds could also sound like someone's feet being 'raked' along the ground... like they were being carry/drug..she testified that she thought they were from Lacis yard until she went back there and then when she didn't hear them anymore she assumed it was neighbor??? I could be so far off on that tho...

but say it was a neighbor...didn't every neighbor deny being out raking tho? and if they didn't..... KS with the dog could have startled them... who knows.. my dog is protective of me, until the person comes inside..then he figures that person is supposed to be there... and all the 'robbers' (hate calling them this btw) would have to do is hold a knife to her belly and give her the 'shhh' sign to make her stay quiet while KS was there.... Mac would never know that Laci was being threatened if she was just standing there silently..

the HIG was a home-invasion gang yes..... but it's possible that before they could steal anything from Laci's, they took off..... they already had their loot from the Medinas..

and I think Brooks is a bird sanctuary of some kind isn't it??

[Lavindar]

Sorry for blasting in when I've never posted on the Peterson forum, but found this interesting and wanted to ask a question. Is this info from a hypnosis session admissible as evidence?

TIA and ALLMO,
R

That is what makes this all so smoke-and-mirrors.
Geragos was able to get Dempewolfe's testimony OUT becasue of the hypnotism, yet JAckson was hypnotised under EXACTLY the same circumstances and he put her on HIS witness list - her testimony would also not have been allowed so he was able to adjust it to his own smoke-and-mirrors and put the word "safe" into what she said, even tho she never said "safe."

[Lavindar]

raking sounds could also sound like someone's feet being 'raked' along the ground... like they were being carry/drug..she testified that she thought they were from Lacis yard until she went back there and then when she didn't hear them anymore she assumed it was neighbor??? I could be so far off on that tho...

but say it was a neighbor...didn't every neighbor deny being out raking tho? and if they didn't..... KS with the dog could have startled them... who knows.. my dog is protective of me, until the person comes inside..then he figures that person is supposed to be there... and all the 'robbers' (hate calling them this btw) would have to do is hold a knife to her belly and give her the 'shhh' sign to make her stay quiet while KS was there.... Mac would never know that Laci was being threatened if she was just standing there silently..

the HIG was a home-invasion gang yes..... but it's possible that before they could steal anything from Laci's, they took off..... they already had their loot from the Medinas..

and I think Brooks is a bird sanctuary of some kind isn't it??

RAking leaves does not sound like a body being dragged on the ground. And Karen went INTO the back yard. And the HIG burglars would leave $100,000 worth of jewelry in plain site while stealing the pants that they later dressed Laci in??????? We're talking REASONABLE here.

[ekg]

Personally, yes, I totally believe the burglars had nothing to do with it. They turned themselves in. They were HELD in police custody (while someone was holding Laci underwater "somewhere" in order to frame her husband 4 months later, LOL), and the passed the lie detector tests. PASSED.

They had nothing to do with it, and everyone involved in the case from the LE, the Rocha's, the Peterson's, and the jurors have not come forward to say there's even a hint of doubt in regards to them. Even Geragross didn't pursue it.

Good enough for me! :D


I don't remember it that way...... can you show me where you found that?

[Sturgeon_Moon]

www.peoplefinders.com. Go for it.Very nice, I found myself.

imo

[frydaddy]

Originally Posted by frydaddy
A few thoughts...

snipped

3) Two questions...How many times did Laci accost people by herself (without Scott)? What is the specific language in the motion that leads you to believe they admit the burglary occured on the 24th?

****************************************
Response to questions: Reports of Laci accosting people was reported in newspapers. This judge was a neighbor of Laci's and although Geragos was having a hard time getting it into the trial record - this judge is the one who was quoted in newspaper reports saying he has warned Laci about accosting these people.

1) GERAGOS: After your conversation with Laci Peterson, were you concerned about some of the things she was doing in terms of confronting people?
FLADAGER: Objection.

GERAGOS: I'm asking for what,

JUDGE: His state of mind.

GERAGOS: Yeah.

JUDGE: It's overruled.

GERAGOS: Yeah. Did he cause you some concern about what she, the kind of boldness of what she was doing?

CORDOVA: Yes.

2) I'll try and find the motion.

IMO - Boldness of what she was doing with Scott! Unless someone saw her at some point alone and doing this in a manner that caused them concern, I have an impossible time believing she'd risk her unborn child with any type of confrontation by herself. One thing that's curious, but would result in a tangent conversation is, if Cordova was so concerned, why wasn't Scott?

Is the motion the one that also included Aponte at the end of the trial or one previous? I can probably find it, just don't know what you are referring to.

[caphill]

It was only a matter of time before this post arrived...it was as predictable as the sun rising tomorrow!


It was an appropriate response to a poster who had made what seemed to be a statement of fact that the common thief thugs of Medina's home were non violent.

The current Petit home invasion, murder, kidnapping etc is a perfect example of so called "non violent" thugs becoming violent when it apparently became a question of "you or me" IMO.

This is the most recent but far from the only case where someone has murdered who had no previous history. There has always got to be the first time. The good news these "previous non violent" petty thugs were caught red handed and will hopefully never have a chance to murder again.

I personally don't believe Todd abducted Laci, but, IMO I think there is a very good chance he knows who did. Quite frankly, I am surprised that he hasn't already had a tragic accident incident in jail.