Kray Brothers plot to kidnap Viscount Lindley

[Lucien]

I am at that stage in life where something will trigger something in my memory
but I still need to prove it.The recent controversey about the British army refusing to send Prince Harry to Iraq because of insurgent plots to kidnap him once he arrived triggered a memory from long ago.In 1970 the high profile British mobster Ronald Kray was serving a life sentence for murder and is brother and the rest of the gang hatched a plot to get Ron out by kidnapping
Viscount Lindley, the Queen's nephew who was about nine at the time .Their plan was to exchange the little Lord for Ron.As best I can remember Scotland yard uncovered the plot a very short time before the Viscount was to have been abducted.Well I have scoured the web and can''t find anything about it.
Can anybody here help me.

[jazzmann]

I wonder if they would dare to do this . As you know All hell would have broken loose for even thinking about it.
maybe your thinking about the aborted attempt to kidnap princess Anne by those IRA murderers.:shrug:

[Lucien]

Thanks for responding jazzman! the answer is no I am not confusing this with
the attempt to kidnap Princess Anne that was in 1974,ironically it occurred
about a month after Patricia Hearst was kidnapped.The plot I am referring to
occurred in 1970.I can remember reading about it at the time.Scotland yard took it very seriously.I remember that after the plot against Lord Linley was exposed that the Kray mob transferred their kidnapping plans to another member of the royal family.I found something about it recently in the files of a Canadian newspaper but I could''nt open the file because you have to be a subscriber.I agree that it would have been a monumentally stupid act and it would have triggered a constitutional crisis rather like what happened in Canada the same year.But still if a member of the royal family were to be kidnapped could the British government catogorically refuse to give in to the kidnappers demands if that meant the death of the victim?

[jazzmann]

I must admit I`ve never heard of the Krays even thinking about any kidnap plot like this.
It` is strange that you mention the krays, as my recently deceased father in law used to work within the prison that one of them was incarcerated in. He was descibed by him as "model" prisoner. That is a far as I personally know about him ,but no where have I heard or seen anything about either Kray`s being involved in any kidnap of any Royal at any time, although I do remember something about The criminal underground thinking of it.
The Krays did actually work to a "code" IE, it was mainly criminals they "Took care of" shall we say.
At the time of their arrest, the Krays were about to become some of the richest men in the world through a legitamate buisness. They had bought some plant from Eastern Europe which was to make "Rockwool" a very effective home insulation material which was ,at the time, relatively unknown in this country or even the EU.

Now as to your question about would the demands be given into.
I think at that time ,probably yes. Although now the answer would be no ...officially that is.
The criminal at that time was in a state of flux ,some were Royalists ,some not, as now. But. Either way, then as now, the full force of the state would be mobilised and the minors involved would be proscecuted and left in jail for the rest of their short lives . The main perpetrators would be executed very quietly without any fuss.
Constitutional crises? what crises? Remember ALL politicians are inbred liars . Easily covered up by them . If linley had died during this It would be officially an accident of some sort, such is the power of the state.

[Lucien]

Jazzman thanks for your observations about the Krays.When you say that if
Lord Linley had been killed the government would have called it an accident
do you mean the authorities would have covered up the whole thing to the point that the public would not even have known that the Viscount was kidnapped?

[jazzmann]

Jazzman thanks for your observations about the Krays.When you say that if
Lord Linley had been killed the government would have called it an accident
do you mean the authorities would have covered up the whole thing to the point that the public would not even have known that the Viscount was kidnapped?
The authorities would certainly cover up this , don`t forget that this is a police state we live in and has got worse since that era. It is practically impossible to have your say in this country anymore. Even to the point where the basic concepts written down in the Magna carta were dissolved by parliament last year. You can no longer demonstrate against most things now without the express permission of the police and Government .:flamemad:

[Lucien]

I understand your perspective Jazzman but I find it difficult to see how such a high profile crime could be covered up indefinitely.For instance if the Kidnapping were the work of a terrorist group they would make sure the whole world knew about it as that would be the whole point.For instance supposedly the last straw that persuaded theMOD not to send Prince Harry to
Iraq was evidence that Al Sadr's ****te militia planned to kidnap the Prince
practically as soon as He set foot on Iraqi soil.At this point Al Sadr planned
to smuggle his royal prize accross the border to Iran.Once in Iran I think you can assume Harry would have turned up on the internet bound, blindfolded and kneeling before his captors.Because of the internet it has become increasingly difficult to control the flow of information.I think if this plot had been carried out it would have placed Britain in an untenable position.Once the Prince was in Iran it would have been next to impossible to mount a rescue mission.So the government would have had to either consent to the Kidnappers demands or make some sort of a military response to Iran.Basically
a no win situation.

[jazzmann]

I understand your perspective Jazzman but I find it difficult to see how such a high profile crime could be covered up indefinitely.For instance if the Kidnapping were the work of a terrorist group they would make sure the whole world knew about it as that would be the whole point.For instance supposedly the last straw that persuaded theMOD not to send Prince Harry to
Iraq was evidence that Al Sadr's ****te militia planned to kidnap the Prince
practically as soon as He set foot on Iraqi soil.At this point Al Sadr planned
to smuggle his royal prize accross the border to Iran.Once in Iran I think you can assume Harry would have turned up on the internet bound, blindfolded and kneeling before his captors.Because of the internet it has become increasingly difficult to control the flow of information.I think if this plot had been carried out it would have placed Britain in an untenable position.Once the Prince was in Iran it would have been next to impossible to mount a rescue mission.So the government would have had to either consent to the Kidnappers demands or make some sort of a military response to Iran.Basically
a no win situation.

We`re talking about 2 differant scenerios here.
With Linely the scenerio was supposedly criminals and in a differant era to this one . The state here is very,very adept at cover ups, for instance,
some information from the war with Napolion from the 18 00`s is still a state secret:confused:
With Harry it`s a very volitile war zone . There is no way he would have been placed at risk no matter what the idiot thought . Lets not forget that although he is the son of Diana and lives in a gilded cage, I reckon the population here is of the view that he takes his chances with the rest of the troops if he ever was allowed there .
Now before you say anything about his uncle and the Falklands. The truth there is that although he was a pilot ,he was kept as far away from any possibility of being shot at.

[Lucien]

Jazzman I don''t necessarily disagree with your basic points but my contention would be that there is no really safe place in Iraq, or Afghanistan
where Harry is now rumored to be sent.One of the Iraqi insurgent groups claims to have spies inside the British command who could tell them exactly
where Harry is.There is some speculation in the media that Harry is already in Iraq and that his presence there is being kept secret.Afghanistan is only slightly less dangerous than Iraq.Supposedly the reason the military is going to such Herculean lengths in this matter is because Harry has threatened to resign his commission in the army if he is''nt allowed to go into combat.This I suppose would be somewhat embarassing to the military.

[jazzmann]

Lucien ,I wonder which basic points you disagree on?
You are correct that there is no really safe place for Harry to go in either war zone,( at least we agree on that ) although he would be safer than any other person military there. But then, neither is it safe for any other military personnel. You takes the Queen shilling ,so tough. But with this hot headed lout,
being anywhere near a war zone puts the men under his control under added risk.
Now whither he should be in the military at all, is a matter of opinion with the world as it is . If he resigned his commision MMM Now that would save a lot of taxpayers money on this wasterel and the question already has been asked here why was he allowed to go into the military at all, given the amount of war scenarios we are in at the moment
As for spies in the command . One has been caught, ( Lucky for him he was jailed before the troops got to him ) this goes onto the subject of religion and with our pro Islamist government ...Do you really want to go there ?

[Lucien]

Jazzman I assume you are saying the British government is pro-Islamist? It
would seem to me if that were true Blair would not have sent troops first to Afghanistan and then to Iraq as this was almost certain to make Britain a target for Islamist terrorists.I do get part of your point in that Britain continues to admit large numbers of Immigrants from the Middle East largely out of a need to worship the great God political correctness.We have the same problem here in the U.S. as thousands of people illegally cross our border with Mexico every day,It's really not a border anymore.And if you suggest that there might be something wrong with this you are automatically tagged as a bigot or a racist.And so it goes.

[jazzmann]

Ive not been loggged on for a long while hence the late reply to your post.
Looks like we both have something of the same problem of immigrants ,the main differance being we are an island so ,therefore, it should be relatively easy to control our borders unlike yourselves.
The political side is that Blair has gone ..thank God. but his PC morons are still in power this literally means that you are still forbidden by law to free speach and are classed as rascist if you do . The penalty being fines or jail terms.

As for this country and it`s government being pro Islamist ...Yep 100% . The banking system is now compatable and in some cases completely sharia. Sharia courts have now been deemed lawfull . Injured military personnel have been spat at and assaulted in Hospital with no proscecution of the assailants. The list is endless.

Since the games are on in China at the moment Perhaps you might be interested in this titbit . When the cameras start rolling on the London games from the air you will see the Biggest Mosque in Europe that is being built just in time for it`s opening ,paid for by the Saudi Government, which if you don`t know is of the Wahabbi sect, the most extreme of all the sects in Islam . Need I say anymore ?

[jazzmann]

Hi. I don't give a rat's **** about Harry. Who'd want him? Linley(and I've spelt it correctly) who'd want him?

Princess Anne (who'd want her?) the attempt 73/74.

If they're not in the direct line of succession who cares?

I'm not too impressed with what is in line.:eek:

Thats a hornets nest to delve into with that comment LOL :no:

[jazzmann]

Why is that a hornet's nest? I have a right to my opinion. Queen Elizabeth is the head of state where I live and I think she does a great job. I'm not impressed with Charles or his sons. And I still say. Who gives a rat's **** about Linley?

I think most people don`t care about linley including myself. Elizebeth does an impressive job considering her age and frailty.
Charles , now thats another side of a 2 hearded coin . The presumptive head of The Church Of England ....with leanings to Islam ??? AND a very tacky personal life.
As for his sons, MMM . A scandal in the making would would be shut up with a DNA check . But who am I but a mere subject who uses his eyes and thinks , I wonder, the resemblance is remarkable.
Perhaps you can envision the hornets nest now
Your correct to state you have a right to your own opinion,lucky you in that matter, mine has been removed by parliament .:flamemad:

[jazzmann]

G'day. we had a vote about 8 or 9 years ago about whether to keep the monarchy or not. It was worded in a really biased way but the majority voted to keep the monarchy, mostly I believe, out of affection for the Queen and the fact that a not viable alternative was presented.

She's what in her 80's now? We agree on a lot my friend. Charles I wouldn't spit on if he was on fire. Nor that woman he parades around as his wife.

The eldest boy is his but he's a flake. I don't think the younger one is his at all and he's not part of the plot as far as I'm concerned.

But if they went what would we end up with? More tax payer funded bozos?
Who are basically neutered because the power is in the parliament and with the PM.:shrug:
Seems we think alike here on this matter at least:beer:
To go further on the post about the power of Islam here and this has just come to public awareness here. As you know Sharia courts now have legal status here now even though UK law is supposed to take precidence (yeah and dogs don`t crap) Last week a Sharia court in Glasgow decreed that if a married man did not have a family his wife MUST have more sex with him whither she wants it or not . Not a word is being uttered by the main media or womans groups ,even the rape centres are very quiet on this one .....Say no more:chicken:

[diamondblast]

I am at that stage in life where something will trigger something in my memory
but I still need to prove it.The recent controversey about the British army refusing to send Prince Harry to Iraq because of insurgent plots to kidnap him once he arrived triggered a memory from long ago.In 1970 the high profile British mobster Ronald Kray was serving a life sentence for murder and is brother and the rest of the gang hatched a plot to get Ron out by kidnapping
Viscount Lindley, the Queen's nephew who was about nine at the time .Their plan was to exchange the little Lord for Ron.As best I can remember Scotland yard uncovered the plot a very short time before the Viscount was to have been abducted.Well I have scoured the web and can''t find anything about it.
Can anybody here help me.

I think it's very honorable that the royalty serves in the army
prince harry is very brave to risk his life for his country
this shows that the good years of the British royalty :) are to come
may god bless the queen

[J. J. in Phila]

There was a plot of sorts to kidnap the Viscount Linley, but I don't know if the Krays were behind it.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=757&dat=19700429&id=DWoJAAAAIBAJ&sjid=nUQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2505,1907551

It was quickly abandoned in favor of an PM's daughter.