PA - Haines Family Massacre

[Serendipitous1]

A triple homicide is unfolding in Lancaster County. A couple - Thomas Alan Haines and his wife, Lisa Ann (Brown) Haines - and their 16-year-old son, Kevin, were apparently stabbed to death in their home early Saturday morning.
http://www.wgal.com/news/13308268/detail.html

A daughter, Margaret Leigh (Maggie) Haines, recently returned home from college, was allegedly asleep in her bedroom when she heard a noise and some type of scuffling sound. She got up and went to her mother's room. There, she saw her dad lying on the bed and her mother on the edge of the bed. The mother quietly told Margaret to get out and get help. Margaret left the house, went to a neighbor's and called 911. Officials said Margaret did not see an intruder or any suspects. When officers arrived about five minutes later, they found the couple dead in the bedroom and Kevin in a hallway. They did not recover a weapon. The back door to the home was found open.
http://www.wgal.com/news/13317694/detail.html

Rumors swirl around the mystery.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204235

Police have clues...but no weapon, and no announced motive or suspects. Meanwhile, the community is on edge.
http://forums.ibsys.com/viewmessages.cfm?sitekey=lan&Forum=323&Topic=15876

Neffsville Mennonite Church plans to host Blossom Hill Mennonite and Saint Peter’s Lutheran for a community prayer service on Wednesday night.
http://www.wgal.com/news/13319778/detail.html

[packy]

It seems so strange that no one saw anyone leaving or lurking around so far. Is it true that there another invasion/attempt close by?

[Serendipitous1]

It seems so strange that no one saw anyone leaving or lurking around so far. Is it true that there another invasion/attempt close by?The incident apparently occurred about 2-2:30 a.m. I would not expect many people would be moving around the neighborhood at that time of night.

There was a home invasion about 7 miles away, near Lititz, last night. Police say they do not believe that burglary is connected to the triple slaying in Manheim Township about seven miles away.

http://www.wgal.com/news/13328822/detail.html
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204277

[Serendipitous1]

Verbatim news release from the Manheim Township Police Department, sent to news organizations today:

"Once again we are appealing to the public for information relevant to the Haines family homicide.

We are seeking a suspect who would be unaccounted for between the approximate hours of 1:00AM and 3:00AM (Friday night into Saturday morning), May 12, 2007. If you know this person, you may not think they are capable of this type of crime. They may also have fabricated an alibi concerning their whereabouts during this time frame. They may not have a prior record of violence. Additionally, the suspect may have injuries to their hands, arms or other parts of their body.

If you know someone fitting this profile, please call the Manheim Township Police Department at (717) 569-6401.

At this time, we have no reason to believe the incident that occurred in Warwick Township last night is connected or linked to the incident in Manheim Township."

http://www.wgal.com/news/13332252/detail.html

[Serendipitous1]

Watching the video interview on WGAL (linked above), when asked about a possible connection to the triple slaying, Warwick Township Police Chief Richard Garipoli was adamant that there was none. By way of explanation, he made a point that the arrested individual was 36 years old and was a local resident. He continued that he had spoken with Manheim Township investigators. And at that point it seemed like he wanted to explain further, but thought better of it.

Couple that with the Manheim Police profile of someone who might have been unaccounted for early Saturday morning, who may have fabricated an alibi; a person one might think incapable of this type of crime, and who may not have a prior record of violence; someone who may have injuries to their hands, arms or other parts of their body. It seems like police are leaning toward someone rather young, someone local, maybe someone known to the family...perhaps someone in Kevin's (or Mattie's) circle of friends/acquaintances.

[Serendipitous1]

Neighbors gather to remember Haineses:
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204326

Killer may be hurt - Professor calls case similar to book:
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204327

Manheim Township police Lt. Wayne Wagner said investigators have already received numerous tips from the public, and some have developed into promising leads. Investigators are asking the public to cast a suspicious eye and look around for someone who fits the profile of the killer, and report anyone who was unaccounted for from 1 to 3 a.m. on the day of the killings. There may have been some injuries to the killer.

Joel Eigen, a sociology professor at Franklin & Marshall College who teaches criminology classes, compared the slayings to those described in the book "In Cold Blood", by Truman Capote (the family is murdered by intruders, and no one knows what happened. There is no motive. It's all not clear).

[Serendipitous1]

A combined obituary for Tom, Lisa and Kevin Haines was posted online today:
http://obits.lancasteronline.com/index.php?action=view&obit_id=1891100

A Memorial Service will be held on Saturday, May 19, 2007 at 10:30 AM at Otterbein United Methodist Church, 20 E. Clay St., Lancaster, PA. Memorial contributions in Tom, Lisa & Kevin's memory may be made to the Haines Family Scholarship Fund, c/o Manheim Twp. School District, Box 5134, Lancaster, PA 17606.

The online book of condolences:
http://obits.lancasteronline.com/index.php?action=book&obit_id=1891100

[Serendipitous1]

Manheim Township Police Chief Neil Harkins:
"We believe that there is a potential profile of the person who did this... It could be anyone." Police also said the perpetrator may have injuries. "While I am not clear on what those injuries could be, but we are telling people look for injuries such as cuts and bruises -- anything noticeable and fairly new since the weekend."

Sgt. Tom Rudzinski of the Manheim Township Police Department:
"It almost seems like we're looking for someone in the vicinity and somebody that's local, but that's not really necessarily true. It could be somebody from out of the area. And maybe somebody hears the information or sees the broadcast and maybe they know that their boyfriend or their girlfriend wasn't around between that time period, or a family member, and they have some really weird marks on their arms, and they just can't be explained. We'd like to hear about that."

http://www.wgal.com/news/13336931/detail.html

[TN_Profiler]

Based on the coroners remarks on Greta tonight this was a brutal encounter. Not that a total stranger can be ruled out at this point but "over kills" are more common when the perp knows the victims and extreme emotions are at work.

The coroner believes the weapon is a single knife and that leans towards a single perp. They also mentioned the perp may have cuts.

My fingers are crossed that DNA and good policing will solve this case. It is a very sad ending and my thoughts are with the community.

Tragic.

[Mishell1383]

You think the daughter could have done it? I have no idea, I just don't understand why she wasn't among the victims?

[Serendipitous1]

Manheim Township police made another appeal to the public for information that could be useful in identifying a suspect. Residents should be on the lookout for anyone with fresh cuts or bruises on their hands and arms and someone who was unaccounted for between 1 and 3 a.m. Saturday. More investigators were assigned to the investigation yesterday. They are acting on promising leads but have yet to identify any suspects.

An FBI profiler is expected to provide police with a clearer depiction of the killer and his/her motive. Police said they aren't sure if the killer is male or female and if the stabbing deaths were random acts or if the family was targeted.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204441

With killers on the loose, police urged people to lock their doors and turn their lights on. Apparently, many county residents are doing that and more. Sales of home-security systems, handguns, shotguns and pepper spray are up in response to the recent violent crimes.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204440

I too hope that good police work will solve this case. Listening to Sgt. Rudzinski on WGAL, I got the sense that police do have evidence on the killer. Maybe they are waiting on lab results. But the appeal to the public for information and calling in an FBI profiler may also mean police cannot link the evidence to any known suspect. My overall impression of the news reporting this week is that the killer may have no prior record of violence - someone (probably young) who no one would suspect of such a horrific crime.

[Serendipitous1]

You think the daughter could have done it? I have no idea, I just don't understand why she wasn't among the victims?The limited information made public so far (some of it rather odd) has fueled public speculation about Maggie in other forums. In news conferences, police have said that they have no evidence linking Maggie to the crime, and seem to have all but ruled her out. If they have ruled her out, I wish they would announce it so that the speculation would end, rather than adding to this young woman's unimaginable grief.

[Mishell1383]

The limited information made public so far (some of it rather odd) has fueled public speculation about Maggie in other forums. In news conferences, police have said that they have no evidence linking Maggie to the crime, and seem to have all but ruled her out. If they have ruled her out, I wish they would announce it so that the speculation would end, rather than adding to this young woman's unimaginable grief.
I hear ya, it would be better if they did announce it, however, if they dont say anything about ruling her out, maybe someone will get cocky and think shes the suspect, and get themselves caught. I just hope whoever did this does not get away with it.

:rose: For the Haines family, May they Rest In Peace

[TN_Profiler]

My initial thoughts about the daughter are this: based on the nature of the crime it would be impossible/near impossible for her to have committed them and not be covered in blood. Also, the police have suggested the perp may have cuts. This will be important if they find DNA that doesn't belong to anyone in the family.

If the daughter did it I would think it would be hard for her to conceal it for the reasons above but also the psychological impact of committing such a crime would be visible to LE.

It's possible that someone she knows could have committed this crime. Although I have seen this type of crime committed by complete strangers, statistically this crime points to a person who knew the family in some way, shape or form.

Police are no doubt running down neighbors, co-workers, friends, family, etc.... checking all logical connections to this family.

Still a very puzzling crime at this point. :shrug:

[packy]

The incident apparently occurred about 2-2:30 a.m. I would not expect many people would be moving around the neighborhood at that time of night.

There was a home invasion about 7 miles away, near Lititz, last night. Police say they do not believe that burglary is connected to the triple slaying in Manheim Township about seven miles away.

http://www.wgal.com/news/13328822/detail.html
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204277

Thanks, that was the one I had heard about.

You're right at that hour not many may be moving about. I was hoping someone heard a car, someone running, or had seen someone suspicious earlier or something. Dogs barking and waking someone up etc.

[Serendipitous1]

<Snip>
You're right at that hour not many may be moving about. I was hoping someone heard a car, someone running, or had seen someone suspicious earlier or something. Dogs barking and waking someone up etc.There was another stabbing incident that night, about 5 miles away in East Hempfield Township. Police responded to an apartment complex at 11:18 p.m. Friday, and determined it was a domestic dispute between a man and woman (neither named). Both were transported to Lancaster General, treated and released. No word on when they were released from the hospital, or if either was arrested.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204197

[Serendipitous1]

As I post this, the saddened family and friends are gathered at the memorial service. According to WGAL yesterday, crime stoppers has offered a thousand dollar reward for information leading to the killer. I hope individuals and businesses will add to the reward, especially if this investigation drags on without a suspect.

Crime writer David Lohr ( http://www.crimelibrary.com/about/authors/lohr/index.html ) has written an interesting article about the Haines family triple homicide (dated May 17) in the Crime Library ( http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0507/1701_haines_family_murders.html ). One passage in particular caught my attention, because I had not heard some of this from any other source (other than speculation) before - "...Margaret 'Maggie' Haines, 20, was awakened by a commotion coming from her brother's bedroom. When she went to investigate, she heard her mother call to her from her bedroom. When she stepped inside, she found her mother, Lisa Ann, 47, sitting on the edge of her bed, bleeding profusely from a wound to her stomach. Barely conscious, Lisa told her daughter to 'go get help.' Maggie quickly ran next door to a neighbor's house and called 911."

My opinion: Although Lohr did not name the source of this information, it seems plausible. If the parents were alerted to a break in, I would expect an emergency call could have been made from the house and the parents would have immediately moved from their bedroom to gather and protect their children. If the parents were alerted merely by a noise (which they might have attributed to one of the kids being up), the father might have moved from the bedroom to investigate and the mother might have gone to check the children’s bedrooms. But if the father had encountered the perpetrator elsewhere in the house, I would expect he would have retreated and/or yelled to alert the others while defending himself.

Nothing was reportedly taken from the house and there were no signs of forced entry, although the back door was standing open when police arrived. It seems that the perpetrator’s intention was murder, and the actor accessed the house with enough stealth to take 3 lives with little commotion. From the pictures and other information online, the house is fairly complex. There appears to be the original, 2-story house with basement, a living area over garage added to one side, and a ground-level addition on the opposite side. I can only conjecture how access to the house was gained without forcible entry. But it seems to me the perpetrator had to know the room layout in order to accomplish this deed with so little commotion.

Apparently there was no yell or scream. And if Lohr’s account is correct, the parents had not made it out of their bedroom - the father likely dead, and the mother mortally wounded. By all accounts published so far, Maggie was not involved. It seems plausible that the killer knew the parents and son were there but not the daughter who had recently returned home from college. She was awakened by a scuffling sound from her brother’s bedroom and he was later found in an upstairs hallway. While it seems plausible that the killer may still have been in her brother’s room when Maggie arose to investigate, it seems more likely that the killer had already exited the house.

[TN_Profiler]

The fact the daughter had come home within a day of this event I think is an important aspect. It could very well explain why she was not attacked. The killer may not have known she was there.

Based on the estimated time of the crime (2 am) and no visible forced entry, I theorize the victims were probably attacked in their sleep. If a person suffers a fatal and deep cut to their throat then they are probably not going to be able to generate a loud enough noise that would wake someone sleeping on a separate floor.

I do find the wound inflicted on the mother to be unusual in the sense that she was only stabbed once in the stomach. This allowed her to speak which is a very different type of wound found on the father and son. They (according to the coroner) suffered mulitple and extensive wounds to the neck and chest. He likened them to wounds associated with "over kills".

I wonder why they were killed in such a fashion but the mother was wounded only once, albeit fatally?

I agree with the poster above, with a complex layout of the house it would be logical that the killer had been in the house prior.

[Serendipitous1]

Yesterday police released a notice that Lancaster City-County Crime Stoppers is offering a reward of up to $1,000 for information — even from an anonymous source — that could help police catch the killer. Anyone with relevant information can call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-322-1913, or Manheim Township Police at 569-6401.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204493

Parents and teachers need to know how to help students cope with this tragedy. A bereavement counselor and several other crisis specialists will lead a seminar for all interested parents in the Manheim Township School District. Children 14 and older are welcome to attend the event inside the high school's auditorium at 7:30 p.m. on Monday.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204496

[Serendipitous1]

Hundreds of mourners remembered the victims during this morning's memorial service Saturday at Otterbein UMC. Mrs. Haines' brother, Tom Brown, implored the perpetrator of the unsolved crime to "come forward and ask forgiveness."
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204506
http://local.lancasteronline.com/5/204506HAINES_MEMORIAL
http://local.lancasteronline.com/5/204506HAINES_MEMORIAL_2

[Serendipitous1]

Police say they have received tons of tips in this case and they are trying to narrow it down to one or two possible theories to their deaths. They don't expect to release any more information this weekend but more information is expected to be released on Monday.
http://www.whptv.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=1fc5e03d-98d1-4f72-a429-1080104c20f7

[dallasvic]

IMO I really don't think the daughter did it. She had just moved back home.I believe a day or to before this happened. This tell me that the perp might not have known she was even there thats why she is alive, but I am sure at this point she wishes she was not because in just in a matter of minutes her whole family is go and she is alone.
:rose: My Heart And Prayers Are With You Maggie:rose:

[Serendipitous1]

Tom Brown, Mrs. Haines' brother, implored the culprit "to come forward and ask forgiveness of Maggie" and her family. "I say this to you knowing full well that the killer of our loved ones might be in the audience today." The Rev. Robert A. Bailey noted that "There is great anger" over the killings and counseled against the urge for retaliation.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204525

[dallasvic]

This is a very hard one to figure. I believe it was someone they knew and that person did not know that the daughter was there are she would not be alive either. Maggie had just moved back home 2 days before the murders.
This person would have known the layout of the house and who slept were. The boy and his father were stabbed multiple time so they could have been the main targets. The mother was not a threat so they just stabbed her once , but she died a slow death.
The son was well known in school and was the writer of the school paper and on quiz team and well liked.This just looks like them sweetest family in the world that everyone liked ,well not everyone!
Maybe this on they can find somethings on their PC that might help.
Murder for money like life insurance!!!!!!

[Serendipitous1]

My opinion: The police really need to come forward with more information on this investigation...soon! They need to rule Maggie out if at all possible. And Tom Brown's remarks at the funeral service (which I can totally understand) reinforce my belief that the killer may have some connection to the family - that this was not a random act.

[Serendipitous1]

There is a companion discussion on CourtTV message boards: Murder Mystery in Lancaster PA (Haines Family)
http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?threadid=298127&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

[Serendipitous1]

I do not know what to make of this:

"Manheim Township Police say they received a call of suspicious activity at a home at 85 Peach Lane. That call came in just before 2:30 Saturday morning."
http://www.whptv.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=5b665d1c-2e71-45ef-b50a-e574450bffab

"Suspicious Activity"? Did Maggie actually make that call, or did the neighbor have to do it? Did Maggie know the full extent of the emergency? Or was this perhaps just the "fog" of early reporting?

Also, there are many photos of Maggie still online. I would have thought police, or family, or Maggie herself would have shut them down long ago, to help protect her if there is a killer on the loose.

[Serendipitous1]

A major focus of the Haines family killings investigation is happening at Manheim Township High School, where investigators have been questioning students. Asked if Kevin Haines was harassed or picked on at school, MTP Sgt. Thomas Rudzinski said, "I can't comment. That's definitely one of the theories, but I won't say whether that's a valid theory."
http://www.wgal.com/news/13359723/detail.html

[dallasvic]

A major focus of the Haines family killings investigation is happening at Manheim Township High School, where investigators have been questioning students. Asked if Kevin Haines was harassed or picked on at school, MTP Sgt. Thomas Rudzinski said, "I can't comment. That's definitely one of the theories, but I won't say whether that's a valid theory."
http://www.wgal.com/news/13359723/detail.html

Hi S1,
Really wanted to thank you for posting the links on this case. I am very interested in this case for some reason. They look like the Leave It To Beaver family and sound like it also.
I went to the CTV forum from the link you posted and I could not find it there. I don't know my way around there that was my first time, but if you could tell me where to go on there I surely love to hear what they are saying. It seems to me that there are not very many here posting about but you and I:shrug: Please Keep ME informed . I will be very grateful. A am going to do some search and see if I can find anything new!!!
I one of my earlier post I stated that this person knew the lay- out of the house, because if they had not known they would have been stumbling around in the dark and someone would have heard them. Maggie stated she heard a rustling sound that I am sure woke her, but concerting that it sounds to me like this person went to the parents room first, being that parent tin to be lighter sleeps the kids and a adult would be a bigger threat then the son.The stabbed the father first numerous times and the mother once then proceeded to Kevin's room and struggled with him as they stabbed him numerous time and that is the noise is sister heard was Kevin and the perp.
By the time she got to the hall headed to Kevin's room were she said she was headed her mother calls for her and she enters her parents room to find her mother on the side of the bed after being stabbed once.And was told to go to a neighbors and call 911. Kevin was found in the hallway. She just missed being killed herself if her mother had not called for her I bet cause she was headed to his room in the first place. I truly do not think the perp knew Maggie was in the house.
I would like to hear you theory if you have one ?
And again thats for the links

[Serendipitous1]

I am not sure why clicking on the link I posted would not take you directly to the right message board at courttv.com, but if you get to the main index, open the "Current Crimes" board. Then open "Murder Mystery in Lancaster PA (Haines Family). Or just use the search feature. There are not that many posting there either. You can also use google to find other discussions elsewhere on the net.

The search for the killer has led to Manheim Township High School where investigators have been conducting interviews in recent days. Investigators said they are trying to determine if anyone bullied Kevin or considered him an enemy. Police also have spoken with co-workers and friends of Tom and Lisa Haines.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204575

My opinion: I have not heard any mention of investigators probing at Bucknell University. I suppose Maggie's college friends had also gone home at the end of the semester, making interviews more difficult. Other than what I have already posted, I do not have a particular theory.

[Mishell1383]

I think the killer was gone when she woke up, and the rustling noise was kevin crawling towards the hallway. I also think the killer was not aware she was home as well. I believe the killer attacked the father first because he is the biggest threat, than maybe stabbed the mother once, and heard kevin? So maybe he got interupted by him when stabbing the mother, (as she was stabbed once) also I think it was an attack on the parents and Kevin was a witness. I dunno this is all just my opinion of course and it could be totally wrong, but oh well ! :)

[Serendipitous1]

Early this morning police arrested four people in the Diener shooting, as a result of a tip call that was placed to Crime Stoppers.
http://www.wgal.com/news/13372192/detail.html

My opinion: rewards for information can work. Boost the reward in the Haines family killings, and maybe the right tip will come. It has been rumored elsewhere that police have identified a person of interest from Kevin's high school. But that is probably all that it is...a rumor.

[dallasvic]

Have some good news. LP has finally received some leads they are following up. They are being tight lipped about the leads. Along with the leads they have gotten tips from concerned neighbors. The story is at lancasteronline.com

[Serendipitous1]

For any who fancy Brian's Dream Drawings (I do not), there is one dated May 19, 2007 ("Maggie Haines R - SSRI Kills Again")
http://www.briansprediction.com/dd/5510.htm

[Serendipitous1]

For any who fancy Brian's Dream Drawings (I do not), there is one dated May 19, 2007 ("Maggie Haines R - SSRI Kills Again")
http://www.briansprediction.com/dd/5510.htmForgot to add that SSRI could refer to antidepressant drugs which some have alleged are connected to homicides, suicides, etc. But, in my opinion, that was an "easy" dream to have had a week after the murders made national headlines.

[Mishell1383]

For any who fancy Brian's Dream Drawings (I do not), there is one dated May 19, 2007 ("Maggie Haines R - SSRI Kills Again")
http://www.briansprediction.com/dd/5510.htm
this guy is fulla bologna IMO

[Livia]

What a horrific crime! I remember now hearing something about it on TV, but only in passing....a total tragedy. Poor Maggie, can you imagine losing your entire family in one night?! And to die such horrible, violent deaths too.

I agree--it does sound very likely that it was someone who knew the family. And whoever it was obviously believed that Maggie was still off at college, or she very likely would have been murdered too.

Very odd too that while the father and son were so viciously stabbed, the mother suffered only one (albeit fatal) stab wound--and in the stomach?! I don't mean to sound ghoulish, but that doesn't seem to be a very efficient way of dispatching someone (altho, poor soul, it worked in her case--but not before she was able to speak to her daughter). How could the killer not know that she might say, "X did this?"??

I think Mishell might have a good point in suggesting that Kevin interrupted the attack on his mother--this might well explain why she suffered only one stab wound. The killer could have thought that Kevin was a bigger threat than the mother, and left her wounded to "take care of" Kevin.

But if Kevin was the "real" target (which is what the police seem to be implying) why wasn't he killed first? Why kill the parents at all, for that matter?

This is a real mystery. Not to mention a true human tragedy. I really, really hope it is solved soon, whoever did this is one cold-blooded killer. :mad:

Serendipitous, thanks so much for bringing this to our attention, and do please continue to keep us updated! I very much want to see this killer caught!!!

God bless poor Maggie and her family. :rose:

[Mishell1383]

What a horrific crime! I remember now hearing something about it on TV, but only in passing....a total tragedy. Poor Maggie, can you imagine losing your entire family in one night?! And to die such horrible, violent deaths too.

I agree--it does sound very likely that it was someone who knew the family. And whoever it was obviously believed that Maggie was still off at college, or she very likely would have been murdered too.

Very odd too that while the father and son were so viciously stabbed, the mother suffered only one (albeit fatal) stab wound--and in the stomach?! I don't mean to sound ghoulish, but that doesn't seem to be a very efficient way of dispatching someone (altho, poor soul, it worked in her case--but not before she was able to speak to her daughter). How could the killer not know that she might say, "X did this?"??

I think Mishell might have a good point in suggesting that Kevin interrupted the attack on his mother--this might well explain why she suffered only one stab wound. The killer could have thought that Kevin was a bigger threat than the mother, and left her wounded to "take care of" Kevin.

But if Kevin was the "real" target (which is what the police seem to be implying) why wasn't he killed first? Why kill the parents at all, for that matter?

This is a real mystery. Not to mention a true human tragedy. I really, really hope it is solved soon, whoever did this is one cold-blooded killer. :mad:

Serendipitous, thanks so much for bringing this to our attention, and do please continue to keep us updated! I very much want to see this killer caught!!!

God bless poor Maggie and her family. :rose:
I wish when the mom told maggie to get help she blurted out a name, but I guess things can't be that easy, and when your stabbed I'm sure thats not the first thing you think of. imo

[Serendipitous1]

I have no idea if it is connected, but at a meeting on April 19, the MT School Board ratified the decision of the Judiciary Committee in the case of a student violation of School Board Policies 227 (Controlled Substances) and 218.1 (Weapons). The name and grade of the student are not mentioned.
http://www.mtwp.net/index2.php?option=com_docman2&task=down&bid=1757/41907_bd_min.pdf

On the weapons violation, the policy is expulsion for at least one year, in conformance with formal due process proceedings required by law, and the Superintendent may recommend modifications of such expulsion requirement on a case-by-case basis.
http://www.w1w.cc/psba/Districts_Policies/M/ManheimTownship/POLMANTtableofcontents.htm#200

[dallasvic]

I have no idea if it is connected, but at a meeting on April 19, the MT School Board ratified the decision of the Judiciary Committee in the case of a student violation of School Board Policies 227 (Controlled Substances) and 218.1 (Weapons). The name and grade of the student are not mentioned.
http://www.mtwp.net/index2.php?option=com_docman2&task=down&bid=1757/41907_bd_min.pdf

On the weapons violation, the policy is expulsion for at least one year, in conformance with formal due process proceedings required by law, and the Superintendent may recommend modifications of such expulsion requirement on a case-by-case basis.
http://www.w1w.cc/psba/Districts_Policies/M/ManheimTownship/POLMANTtableofcontents.htm#200
Hi S1,

Can you explain where this comes in ? Just give me your opinion would be fine ? Thanks!! An thanks for keeping us up to date.:)

[Serendipitous1]

<Snip>
Can you explain where this comes in ?No idea...just searching the net for possible tie-in to the school. It is curious there is not more online posting by MTHS students...with all of the police attention paid to the high school lately and natural student emotions.

Regardless, with a lack of new information from police, local rumors (not necessarily related to the HS are spilling out on various blogs and boards...too grisly to link (and I prefer facts). All my opinion.

[dallasvic]

No idea...just searching the net for possible tie-in to the school. It is curious there is not more online posting by MTHS students...with all of the police attention paid to the high school lately and natural student emotions.

Regardless, with a lack of new information from police, local rumors (not necessarily related to the HS are spilling out on various blogs and boards...too grisly to link (and I prefer facts). All my opinion.

Hi S1,

I agree you would think the kids would be blasting the net about this. I am getting anguish to here more on this . How about you ? Feel free to state a theory ? I like to hear what if any you might have.Look like it just you an I on this one ,but that is oK by me!!!!!!;)

[Serendipitous1]

"They're gruesome. They're awful. They're bloody. They're unbelievable," Kirchner said, adding that the victims were stabbed multiple times. "My theory is probably that this is a psychotic killer. And that means that the whole motivation for the killing is in his head. It's not out among people," said Kirchner.
http://www.wgal.com/news/13390883/detail.html

[Serendipitous1]

Manheim Township commissioners approved the use of an account for expanding the $1,000 Crime Stoppers reward a reward that has been established for tips about the Haines family murders. Friends, neighbors, employers, business associates and other people who knew the Haines family have indicated they will help the fund grow.

Anyone who would like to contribute to the Haines reward may send a check to: Manheim Township, Attn: Finance Director, 1840 Municipal Drive, Lancaster, Pa., 17601.

Anyone with any information about the murders is asked to call township police at 569-6401 or the Lancaster City-County Crime Stoppers hot line at 1-800-322-1913.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204797

[Serendipitous1]

The Lancaster County DA said "Dr. Kirchner has once again compromised a major criminal investigation by publicly disclosing to media outlets detailed information about victim injuries that only the killer would know...".
http://www.wgal.com/news/13392136/detail.html

"Once again" refers to current computer crime and conspiracy charges against Kirchner, who is accused of compromising the security of the Lancaster County 9-1-1 computer system and conspiring to provide newspaper reporters with illegal access to confidential information.
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=2179

My opinion: it would seem that Kirchner is not a "happy camper". A pretrial conference on the charges is scheduled for next month. Giving out a username and password to a sensitive and secure site is just plain wrong. But to me "the jury" is still out on whether his outspokeness in the Haines case will be helpful, harmful, or have no affect.

[Jadedblueeyes]

The Lancaster County DA said "Dr. Kirchner has once again compromised a major criminal investigation by publicly disclosing to media outlets detailed information about victim injuries that only the killer would know...".
http://www.wgal.com/news/13392136/detail.html

"Once again" refers to current computer crime and conspiracy charges against Kirchner, who is accused of compromising the security of the Lancaster County 9-1-1 computer system and conspiring to provide newspaper reporters with illegal access to confidential information.
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=2179

My opinion: it would seem that Kirchner is not a "happy camper". A pretrial conference on the charges is scheduled for next month. Giving out a username and password to a sensitive and secure site is just plain wrong. But to me "the jury" is still out on whether his outspokeness in the Haines case will be helpful, harmful, or have no affect.

It seems Kirchner wants to be in the thick of things and the "go to" guy for all the titillating news.

Imo his opinion on the Haines case really shows a recklessness. This is not his expertise and really he has no idea if it was a serial killer or not that did the Haines crimes. What he has done imo is to instill even more fear in the community when it may not be a serial killer at all but someone known to this family.

imoo

[dallasvic]

It seems Kirchner wants to be in the thick of things and the "go to" guy for all the titillating news.

Imo his opinion on the Haines case really shows a recklessness. This is not his expertise and really he has no idea if it was a serial killer or not that did the Haines crimes. What he has done imo is to instill even more fear in the community when it may not be a serial killer at all but someone known to this family.

imoo

He is going to drive this kill into hiding. Years ago on a criminal case I think it was a congress lady that spilled the beans by give out info that only the killer would know. The F.B.I was very upset with that as I recall. I am going to look and see, it might have been that serial SNIPER. I will check and see and post it for all to read..:read:

[Jadedblueeyes]

He is going to drive this kill into hiding. Years ago on a criminal case I think it was a congress lady that spilled the beans by give out info that only the killer would know. The F.B.I was very upset with that as I recall. I am going to look and see, it might have been that serial SNIPER. I will check and see and post it for all to read..:read:

I agree. He should have refrained from commenting at least until they have the murderer arrested. I wonder if he has become rather addled because of his age. He has to know what he did with the 911 system was flat wrong and now he is up to his old game of interfering again.

Happy Memorial Day!

We need to thank the veterans we know for their dedicated service to our country.:patriot: :patriot:

imo

[Mishell1383]

Hi S1,

Look like it just you an I on this one ,but that is oK by me!!!!!!;)
nope, Don't forget about me !!!! Been more of a lurker tho. :)

[Serendipitous1]

I see your points jbe and dv. On the other hand, I believe there must be tons of forensic evidence which has not been compromized, and (after two weeks) this case needed a jolt IMO.

Meanwhile Blossom Hill residents are mobilizing to "help take back our neighborhood". A neighborhood crime-watch group is being organized.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204820

I could say "too little too late", but I do not believe it would have helped the Haines family if it had been in place (unless there are some "night people" in the neighborhood). It can make a difference overall though. So I will say "good for them".

Happy Memorial Day to all. And do remember to honor our service men and women, both living and dead. We owe so much to them.

[dallasvic]

Hi S1 and Everyone,

OH OH OH and uh uh What is it MIS Mishell oh yea.,Just kidding Mishell , I like posting with you because you like to get in-the mix just like me . S1 if they would have had the neighborhood watch I bet they would all still be alive.Sounds like to me that their neighborhood was close to perfect and they did not ever in the minds think that something like that could happen to the street.

[Serendipitous1]

Kirchner explained that he never visited the crime scene and knew only what his deputies saw; that he would not tell anybody about the wounds or anything the perpetrator would know, just the gruesome crime scene the way it was described in the newspapers; and that he did not originate the psychosis profile...just an idea floated by somebody else.

Totaro said he has provided specific details about the nature of the injuries, which is clearly inappropriate and has the potential to compromise the investigation; that he has once again provided sensationalized details of a crime scene; and that his graphic descriptions serve no legitimate purpose, but no doubt traumatize the family members and friends of those victims.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204822

[Serendipitous1]

My opinion - So what if Kirchner is not really "LE"? I see him as a people kind of guy. Did he do anything wrong? Can anything match the initial trauma of the triple homicide, to family/friends? There is no undoing what has been done. The rumors were already out there in public view...much more than Kirchner has revealed and speculated on...and the only thing which separates rumor from fact is validation.

It seems to me the emphasis must be on bringing the perp(s) to justice...whatever that takes. And LE has repeatedly asked for public assistance. But what exactly has LE been up to this past week in trying to solve this case? Does anybody really know where they are in this investigation?

Solvable cases go cold and preventable crimes are allowed to continue (in part) because LE refuses to empower the public with enough information. Two weeks will quickly become four. One month will quickly turn into the one-year anniversary. If this case goes cold, the MTPD and Lancaster County DA must be held accountable. I, for one, applaud anyone who tries to see to it that that does not happen.

Metaphorically (this weekend), I say, "throw another 'dog' or two on the b-b-q"! The Haines family homicide case is solvable.

[Serendipitous1]

<Snip>
S1 if they would have had the neighborhood watch I bet they would all still be alive.Sounds like to me that their neighborhood was close to perfect and they did not ever in the minds think that something like that could happen to the street.Unless someone (in addition to police) is willing to patrol 24/7, I doubt a neighborhood watch would have made any difference. The fact is, no one is completely safe...anywhere, at any any time...and any of us could be the next victim. It is not that we should be afraid of that fact, but rather that we recognize it and take whatever measures are appropriate. I understand the "knee jerk" reaction to crime when it happens close by. But I also understand the problem of sustaining an effective, proactive program even when it does not. The first line of defense is in the home. Anyone dumb enough to invade my home will get that point...guaranteed. All just my opinion.

Edited to add that my "dogs" are named Ruger and Savage, and they each have one heck of a "bite".

[Livia]

"Ruger" and "Savage", huh?

If I'm ever in Pennsylvania again, Serendipitous, I'll have to remember to bring a couple of nice beefy steaks by your place lol! :chicken: Should I throw them over the fence first?! :D

I think this case is solvable too. I realize that the police can't just blab everything they know, but sometimes I think they may hold too much back from the public.

After all, if the FBI (I think it was!) hadn't published some of the ramblings of the Unabomber, his brother never would have read it and recognized it.

Sometimes the public can help more than police give us credit for.

Look what John Walsh and AMW have accomplished!!

Whatever happens...I want this killer to be caught, and soon. It's horrible to see nearly a whole family slaughtered like this. And poor Maggie--she will never get over it. :(

[Livia]

On second thought (okay, I googled them) I think that your doggies might be related to a couple of canines I know named Remington and Winchester?! (I know, I'm a bad Southerner--I know zilch about weapons!)

And a Happy Memorial Day to everyone--my dad is a WWII veteran, as is his only surviving brother--not many of them left anymore. *sigh*

[Jadedblueeyes]

I see your points jbe and dv. On the other hand, I believe there must be tons of forensic evidence which has not been compromised, and (after two weeks) this case needed a jolt IMO.

Meanwhile Blossom Hill residents are mobilizing to "help take back our neighborhood". A neighborhood crime-watch group is being organized.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204820

I could say "too little too late", but I do not believe it would have helped the Haines family if it had been in place (unless there are some "night people" in the neighborhood). It can make a difference overall though. So I will say "good for them".

Happy Memorial Day to all. And do remember to honor our service men and women, both living and dead. We owe so much to them.

The main thing I think the ME did is stated something as an opinion when a community is already frightened by these crimes. By him trying to infer that it is a serial killer heightens and exacerbates those fears and it may be needless as this case may not have been committed by a serial killer running loose at all but this family was actually targeted for some unknown reason.

That is all I am saying. That he should have withheld this opinion until he knows it is a fact.

imoo

[Jadedblueeyes]

Unless someone (in addition to police) is willing to patrol 24/7, I doubt a neighborhood watch would have made any difference. The fact is, no one is completely safe...anywhere, at any any time...and any of us could be the next victim. It is not that we should be afraid of that fact, but rather that we recognize it and take whatever measures are appropriate. I understand the "knee jerk" reaction to crime when it happens close by. But I also understand the problem of sustaining an effective, proactive program even when it does not. The first line of defense is in the home. Anyone dumb enough to invade my home will get that point...guaranteed. All just my opinion.

Edited to add that my "dogs" are named Ruger and Savage, and they each have one heck of a "bite".

Now that is a coincidence. My daughter and her husband have two black labs and their names are Magnum and Ruger.

imoo

[Serendipitous1]

On second thought (okay, I googled them) I think that your doggies might be related to a couple of canines I know named Remington and Winchester?! (I know, I'm a bad Southerner--I know zilch about weapons!)

And a Happy Memorial Day to everyone--my dad is a WWII veteran, as is his only surviving brother--not many of them left anymore. *sigh*Now we are on the same page Livia! I think Ocean got it too. Just leave the steaks on the porch, ring the doorbell, and run...JK, teehee!

Two of my nephews have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. One will return shortly. God bless them all!

More OT - more on the DA/Coroner flap:
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204850

[Jadedblueeyes]

Now we are on the same page Livia! I think Ocean got it too. Just leave the steaks on the porch, ring the doorbell, and run...JK, teehee!

Two of my nephews have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. One will return shortly. God bless them all!

More OT - more on the DA/Coroner flap:
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204850


I pray for their safe return.:patriot:

I am a mother who knows the continuous dread and worry of having a loved one in such a dangerous place. Our only son was a USMC pilot for 10 years before going into the private sector. He was deployed many times into the belly of Hell (Bosnia, Afghanistan and Iraq) where he flew the severely wounded and dying out of the danger zones, many times under gunfire.

I truly felt at times my heart would not withstand the fear I felt knowing where he was and what could happen to him. But by the Grace of God, HE brought him back home to us. Yet I still see the sadness in his eyes today and each loss of life makes him still grieve for his fellow comrades and the bond he has within him will be with him the rest of his life.

My heart breaks for each of these families and I know their hearts must be in their throats with each passing day. :patriot: :rose:

imoo

[Serendipitous1]

About 40 cadets from the PSP Academy in Hershey, along with about a dozen MT police and state troopers, swept through Blossom Hill this morning, making one final search in hopes of finding some physical evidence stemming from the crime. After a final search of the home and surrounding yards, the property will be turned over to the Haines family.

Police said they are still getting tips and are following several leads. Reward money is also being tallied. By the end of the week, officials should be able to announce a money amount that would be awarded for information leading to an arrest.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204919
http://www.wgal.com/news/13412551/detail.html

[Sharon]

I wish when the mom told maggie to get help she blurted out a name, but I guess things can't be that easy, and when your stabbed I'm sure thats not the first thing you think of. imo

I think the Mum would have said the name if she knew. I think the intruder must have been discuised or else the Mum would have told. She would have known she was dying. imo

[Serendipitous1]

Physical evidence recovered inside the house, including blood and fingerprints, is being examined. Rudzinski would not comment on the results of those tests. Maggie has cooperated with authorities and has not been linked to the killings, but police have yet to rule her out as a suspect. Rudzinski discounted a rumor that police had linked one of Kevin’s classmates to the killings. No person of interest or suspect has been identified at the school.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204983

My opinion: nearly 3 weeks into the investigation and police cannot rule Maggie out yet? WTH? Also, the way it is was worded about the school may only mean police have no student POI/suspect who attended class after May 11.

[Mishell1383]

I think the Mum would have said the name if she knew. I think the intruder must have been discuised or else the Mum would have told. She would have known she was dying. imo
Ya you never know until your in that situation I guess, IMO

[Mishell1383]

Physical evidence recovered inside the house, including blood and fingerprints, is being examined. Rudzinski would not comment on the results of those tests. Maggie has cooperated with authorities and has not been linked to the killings, but police have yet to rule her out as a suspect. Rudzinski discounted a rumor that police had linked one of Kevin’s classmates to the killings. No person of interest or suspect has been identified at the school.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204983

My opinion: nearly 3 weeks into the investigation and police cannot rule Maggie out yet? WTH? Also, the way it is was worded about the school may only mean police have no student POI/suspect who attended class after May 11.
Thanks for this update serendipitous

[Serendipitous1]

Police say the reward money in the Haines family homicides has reached $12,000. Family members pitched in $10,000, while the community and crime stoppers each put in $1,000.

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=cac16a7b-86c3-40b5-aea3-e3c353f499ae

[Jadedblueeyes]

Physical evidence recovered inside the house, including blood and fingerprints, is being examined. Rudzinski would not comment on the results of those tests. Maggie has cooperated with authorities and has not been linked to the killings, but police have yet to rule her out as a suspect. Rudzinski discounted a rumor that police had linked one of Kevin’s classmates to the killings. No person of interest or suspect has been identified at the school.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204983

My opinion: nearly 3 weeks into the investigation and police cannot rule Maggie out yet? WTH? Also, the way it is was worded about the school may only mean police have no student POI/suspect who attended class after May 11.

I have heard LE say if the crime is not solved within the first 72 hours the chances of it being solved dwindles as time passes.

Imo, I think they have already ran the fingerprints through the data system and aren't getting a hit. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if this is the first murders or crimes this person(s) has committed.

I continue to hope it will be solved but with each passing day my hopes are dwindling.

imoo

[Mishell1383]

I have heard LE say if the crime is not solved within the first 72 hours the chances of it being solved dwindles as time passes.

<snipped>

I continue to hope it will be solved but with each passing day my hopes are dwindling.

imoo
Unfortunately I do agree :(

[Melungeon]

I have heard LE say if the crime is not solved within the first 72 hours the chances of it being solved dwindles as time passes.

That's one of the main reasons it's imperative the parents should talk to the police immediately.

[Serendipitous1]

People magazine is reporting that investigators found a bloody footprint in the house from a male shoe, and bloodhounds tracked a scent from the house to Freeze & Frizz on Lititz Pike, 2½ miles to the north.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205066

My opinion: but the most disturbing part of the article in People magazine is that they included a photo of Maggie...and the idiots at lancasteronline put it up on the web. With no suspects, the killer is still out there among us. Why jeopardize this woman's safety by publishing her picture?

[Mishell1383]

That's one of the main reasons it's imperative the parents should talk to the police immediately.
I don't mean to be abrupt or obnoxious in anyway, but the parents are dead? I'm not sure if I understand what parents your talking about? Again, please don't take offense, anyone.

[Mishell1383]

People magazine is reporting that investigators found a bloody footprint in the house from a male shoe, and bloodhounds tracked a scent from the house to Freeze & Frizz on Lititz Pike, 2½ miles to the north.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205066

My opinion: but the most disturbing part of the article in People magazine is that they included a photo of Maggie...and the idiots at lancasteronline put it up on the web. With no suspects, the killer is still out there among us. Why jeopardize this woman's safety by publishing her picture?
WOW That is pretty inethical!

Thanks for letting us know about that shoe! Hopefully it sheds some light on this. :shrug:

[Serendipitous1]

<Snip>
WOW That is pretty inethical!I wonder when People magazine (which I do not read) fell into the sleasy tabloid category. That photo is from an online gallery that has been visited scores of times since the murders. And there are certainly yearbook photos of Maggie, etc. Yet no one had stooped to publishing her photo before now. Maggie's safety is paramount to any publisher's "right". I hope she is out of Lancaster County. All just my own opinion.

[Melungeon]

I don't mean to be abrupt or obnoxious in anyway, but the parents are dead? I'm not sure if I understand what parents your talking about? Again, please don't take offense, anyone.

My sincere apologies. I thought I was replying to a message on the JonBenet Ramsey board. I had several Internet reader "tabs" open and responded to the wrong one. Please pardon my bumbling fingers (and mind!).

[Mishell1383]

My sincere apologies. I thought I was replying to a message on the JonBenet Ramsey board. I had several Internet reader "tabs" open and responded to the wrong one. Please pardon my bumbling fingers (and mind!).
OH! That makes sense! LOL no worries!

[Mishell1383]

WOW That is pretty inethical!

Thanks for letting us know about that shoe! Hopefully it sheds some light on this. :shrug:
I apologize I mean Unethical

[Mishell1383]

I wonder when People magazine (which I do not read) fell into the sleasy tabloid category. That photo is from an online gallery that has been visited scores of times since the murders. And there are certainly yearbook photos of Maggie, etc. Yet no one had stooped to publishing her photo before now. Maggie's safety is paramount to any publisher's "right". I hope she is out of Lancaster County. All just my own opinion.
And I agree with your opinion, I would think out of publishing her picture, she's going to get some harrassers, some sick people, etc. I hope as well shes out of Lancaster and maybe in some sort of witness protection?!

[Serendipitous1]

And I agree with your opinion, I would think out of publishing her picture, she's going to get some harrassers, some sick people, etc. I hope as well shes out of Lancaster and maybe in some sort of witness protection?!Gotcha Mishell...and I agree. I am hoping for family protection (and support)...outside of Lancaster County. We do not know what all she witnessed or what she knows about the the "states of the family members' lives" as of that night. Maggie is vulnerable until the killer is in custody. Ethical publishers would respect that, but People magazine chose not to do so. And the Lancaster newspaper followed suit. Anything to sell magazines/newspapers...very sad! May God continue to bless Maggie Haines. All just my opinion.

[Sharon]

Ya you never know until your in that situation I guess, IMO

I hope I never get to know!!!!:eek: (and btw I didnt mean to sound presumptuous incase it came off like that.) I really think the guy might have been a total stranger or someone discuised. Also I am assuming its not the daughter fwiw. jmo

[Hey Paula]

You think the daughter could have done it? I have no idea, I just don't understand why she wasn't among the victims?

Hi Mishell,

This is my thinking as well, after having read many of the links provided in the beginning of this thread.

None of the other crimes were committed in the same manner. Perps/gangs/initiations, etc, usually employ the same MO. A sword was mentioned as perhaps being the murder weapon, which reminded me of the some of the murders committed by those who took the game "Dungeons and Dragons" to a murderous level; one of them being Chris Pritchard, a college student who D&D playing fellow students, with Chris' knowledge, murdered his stepfather and critically wounded his mother, as his sister slept in her bedroom.

I don't recall reading if Maggie is a college student. Do you know if she is, and if she was home on a visit?

I wonder if the family had a large life insurance policy?

TIA

IMO

[Mishell1383]

Hi Mishell,

This is my thinking as well, after having read many of the links provided in the beginning of this thread.

None of the other crimes were committed in the same manner. Perps/gangs/initiations, etc, usually employ the same MO. A sword was mentioned as perhaps being the murder weapon, which reminded me of the some of the murders committed by those who took the game "Dungeons and Dragons" to a murderous level; one of them being Chris Pritchard, a college student who D&D playing fellow students, with Chris' knowledge, murdered his stepfather and critically wounded his mother, as his sister slept in her bedroom.

I don't recall reading if Maggie is a college student. Do you know if she is, and if she was home on a visit?

I wonder if the family had a large life insurance policy?

TIA

IMO
YES! Maggie was home for I believe her first night, if not her second. But yes, she had definitly JUST gotten back from school. And there's alot of talk about how this was the "perfect" neighborhood and it was very upper class, so large insurance policy??? I would assume. And the LE has STILL not taking her off the POI's list? So something is strange about that, unless the killer just didn't realize she had gotten home from college? :confused:

[dallasvic]

Hi Mishell,

This is my thinking as well, after having read many of the links provided in the beginning of this thread.

None of the other crimes were committed in the same manner. Perps/gangs/initiations, etc, usually employ the same MO. A sword was mentioned as perhaps being the murder weapon, which reminded me of the some of the murders committed by those who took the game "Dungeons and Dragons" to a murderous level; one of them being Chris Pritchard, a college student who D&D playing fellow students, with Chris' knowledge, murdered his stepfather and critically wounded his mother, as his sister slept in her bedroom.

I don't recall reading if Maggie is a college student. Do you know if she is, and if she was home on a visit?

I wonder if the family had a large life insurance policy?

TIA

IMO

Hey Paula,
And Mishell ,
You asked about Maggie and college? I have been on this one since it started and YES Maggie had just finished a year and had come home and yes it was her 1ST night home.
That is why I believe is is alive today, they did not know she was there and IMO its sounds like this person or persons knew the layout of the house there for they new the family and had to have been in the house at one time or another.
They had to navigate through the home without out running into things and being heard. I believe that they went to the parents room first because they they would have been the biggest threat and the to Steve's and he was leaving his room they got him in the hall.
Maggie said she heard a rustling sound and was headed to her brothers room when her mom called for her and she found her mom on the side of the bed stabbed one in the gut.
Your have a great point about the D&D theory never thought about that one and it could have been a friend of Steve's that knew the house. That is a GREAT ONE Paula you GO GAL:beer:

[dallasvic]

I wonder if the family had a large life insurance policy?

I also thought about that one also in a earlier post!!!

[Jadedblueeyes]

YES! Maggie was home for I believe her first night, if not her second. But yes, she had definitely JUST gotten back from school. And there's alot of talk about how this was the "perfect" neighborhood and it was very upper class, so large insurance policy??? I would assume. And the LE has STILL not taking her off the POI's list? So something is strange about that, unless the killer just didn't realize she had gotten home from college? :confused:

The timing of these murders are very perplexing.

I haven't bought People magazine yet but I intend do so sometime this weekend.

It seems like from the excerpts of People magazine that they have found a male shoe print and fingerprints at the scene IIRC. I am assuming that both of these things were in blood. I am also assuming they have entered these prints into CODIS and have gotten no hits and that is why they have said the killer may not have a criminal past. So this tends to lead me to believe this was done by one lone male and that leads to more questions than answers imo.

How can one lone male go into a home and murder three individuals and never been inside that home before? I could understand it if he went to each one of them threatening them with the weapon and bound them up like Joesph Duncan did Mark McKenzie and the Greone family but this did not happen it seems. Also I tend to believe all three were dead except maybe the mother who had to be gravely wounded. There is no logic that between the time that Maggie called 911 from the neighbors and when the police arrived 4-5 minutes later they were all dead and the perp was already gone. :confused: Now I am not saying Maggie knew anything about this but imo the murders had already occurred (except I will give her the benefit of the doubt about her mother, for now) and the perp gone before she ran for help.

Much of this just doesn't make sense imo. Maggie says she hears a noise coming from her brother's room but never sees him stagger into the hallway and die. Did she have to go past his room to get out of the home? And even the mother's death doesn't really make sense to me. It is just so hard to believe that she didn't know her husband was being mortally attacked. If it is one lone guy then he killed them one at a time, surely the mother would have woken up when her husband was being stabbed multiple times. If the killer could see where they were laying then Mrs. Haines surely could have seen him.:confused: Maybe it is just me but the constant stabbing had to be shaking the bed. Maybe I question that part because if I feel my bed being bumped in the night I wake right up and it happens occasionally when our grand babies stay over and have a bad dream or dont feel well in the night and come to us.

Since it is said that the mother was only stabbed once in the stomach did the mother try to stop the person and she really wasn't the intended target but maybe they knew she had recognized them and they knew they had to kill her too but then why just one stab if that part is correct? Or was it a mistake and was done with the wild slashing of the knife? Were they there to originally murder two instead of three?

There are so many things that do not make logical sense in this case and this case is truly haunting as the Haines family seemed to be such nice law abiding people. Just so many questions and it seems LE has no answers either.

Was this killer known to this family or are we once again dealing with a Scott Dyleski type?

imoo

[Mishell1383]

The timing of these murders are very perplexing.

I haven't bought People magazine yet but I intend do so sometime this weekend.

It seems like from the excerpts of People magazine that they have found a male shoe print and fingerprints at the scene IIRC. I am assuming that both of these things were in blood. I am also assuming they have entered these prints into CODIS and have gotten no hits and that is why they have said the killer may not have a criminal past. So this tends to lead me to believe this was done by one lone male and that leads to more questions than answers imo.

How can one lone male go into a home and murder three individuals and never been inside that home before? I could understand it if he went to each one of them threatening them with the weapon and bound them up like Joesph Duncan did Mark McKenzie and the Greone family but this did not happen it seems. Also I tend to believe all three were dead except maybe the mother who had to be gravely wounded. There is no logic that between the time that Maggie called 911 from the neighbors and when the police arrived 4-5 minutes later they were all dead and the perp was already gone. :confused: Now I am not saying Maggie knew anything about this but imo the murders had already occurred (except I will give her the benefit of the doubt about her mother, for now) and the perp gone before she ran for help.

Much of this just doesn't make sense imo. Maggie says she hears a noise coming from her brother's room but never sees him stagger into the hallway and die. Did she have to go past his room to get out of the home? And even the mother's death doesn't really make sense to me. It is just so hard to believe that she didn't know her husband was being mortally attacked. If it is one lone guy then he killed them one at a time, surely the mother would have woken up when her husband was being stabbed multiple times. If the killer could see where they were laying then Mrs. Haines surely could have seen him.:confused: Maybe it is just me but the constant stabbing had to be shaking the bed. Maybe I question that part because if I feel my bed being bumped in the night I wake right up and it happens occasionally when our grand babies stay over and have a bad dream or dont feel well in the night and come to us.

Since it is said that the mother was only stabbed once in the stomach did the mother try to stop the person and she really wasn't the intended target but maybe they knew she had recognized them and they knew they had to kill her too but then why just one stab if that part is correct? Or was it a mistake and was done with the wild slashing of the knife? Were they there to originally murder two instead of three?

There are so many things that do not make logical sense in this case and this case is truly haunting as the Haines family seemed to be such nice law abiding people. Just so many questions and it seems LE has no answers either.

Was this killer known to this family or are we once again dealing with a Scott Dyleski type?

imoo
wow! greatpost, great questions, great content.. Maggie, does she have a boyfriend?:confused:

[dallasvic]

wow! great post, great questions, great content.. Maggie, does she have a boyfriend?:confused:
This person had to know the family and to know the layout of the home, Thats why I think the cops went to Steve's school first. I do believe that they know what type person they are looking for. They are just not saying so they will not scare them into hiding.
An as Paula said in a earlier post that it could be a D & D killing because of the sword used. Think about it it makes since RIGHT?:shrug:

[Jadedblueeyes]

wow! great post, great questions, great content.. Maggie, does she have a boyfriend?:confused:

Thank you Mishell for your kind words.

I cant verify if she has a boyfriend but when I was googling the other day about this case I did run across something that said she did have a boyfriend from the college she attends.

I will see if I can search and find it again.

ETA; I will be back later on this evening. I have now eaten too much lunch and nap time is calling! lol

imoo

[Agentorange]

You think the daughter could have done it? I have no idea, I just don't understand why she wasn't among the victims?

I have only heard about this murder today.
Yes it does sound odd but if it was her wouldn't the police have found the weapon? I wonder if they searched the gardens in the neighbourhood near the house? She (if the daughter is involved) could have thrown it in there when she went to call the police.
Another possiblily is that her parents didn't agree with her seeing a boyfriend but put up with it. He could have been controlling their daughter making her believe that they were bad and trying to split them up. He could have stayed over either with the girls parents knowing or sneaked in to see their daughter and then murdered them in their beds.

I wonder if the police asked for the clothes that the girl was wearing that night? If there is any blood on them as blood stains can be a give away, especially if their is evidence to suggest the blood sprayed or splattered onto the clothing.

The problem is that when the victims are dead you'll never get their story.

[Agentorange]

Hey Paula,
And Mishell ,
You asked about Maggie and college? I have been on this one since it started and YES Maggie had just finished a year and had come home and yes it was her 1ST night home.
That is why I believe is is alive today, they did not know she was there and IMO its sounds like this person or persons knew the layout of the house there for they new the family and had to have been in the house at one time or another.
They had to navigate through the home without out running into things and being heard. I believe that they went to the parents room first because they they would have been the biggest threat and the to Steve's and he was leaving his room they got him in the hall.
Maggie said she heard a rustling sound and was headed to her brothers room when her mom called for her and she found her mom on the side of the bed stabbed one in the gut.
Your have a great point about the D&D theory never thought about that one and it could have been a friend of Steve's that knew the house. That is a GREAT ONE Paula you GO GAL:beer:


Ah I didn't know that the daughter had just got back from a year from school. Do you know what kind of jobs her parents had? I think that would be useful information to know.
It's strange that their daughter was spending her first night home but that could just be coincedence.
I thought that if she had met anyone online like a penpal during her year away and told them that she was heading home on that day and she gave them her address a while back could it have been meant for her? Like a stalker or something? Sounds like the work of an obsessive stalker to me or someone wanting revenge.

[Jadedblueeyes]

Ah I didn't know that the daughter had just got back from a year from school. Do you know what kind of jobs her parents had? I think that would be useful information to know.
It's strange that their daughter was spending her first night home but that could just be coincidence.
I thought that if she had met anyone online like a penpal during her year away and told them that she was heading home on that day and she gave them her address a while back could it have been meant for her? Like a stalker or something? Sounds like the work of an obsessive stalker to me or someone wanting revenge.

Hi AgentOrange!

Maggie came home from college on Thursday and the murders happened that Friday night or actually early Saturday morning around 2:30 am per Maggie.

I believe her dad was a Manager of a place called Motion Industries where he was well thought of IIRC. I cant remember now exactly what her mom did. This family was known to be very much into the Church. In fact I think Mr. Haines was a trustee of some sort with his church.

That is what is so unexplainable about this case. This family was known to be very close and an upstanding family in the community. Seems to be one of the least likely to have such an enemy as this one.

I do agree with the FBI Profiler when he said that knifes are usually used when the killings are personal.

If Maggie has a boyfriend I am sure the police have talked with him and asked him where he was on this night. The thing we dont know of course is what the police know and I wonder if anyone has lawyered up refusing to speak with LE.

imoo

[Jadedblueeyes]

I tried to edit my above post but was too late.

Lisa Haines was a pre-school teacher for Lancaster Church.

imo

[Serendipitous1]

Fox News (Greta) video clips at YouTube, including interview of a guy from People magazine:
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=%22Haines+Family%22

[Jadedblueeyes]

A triple homicide is unfolding in Lancaster County. A couple - Thomas Alan Haines and his wife, Lisa Ann (Brown) Haines - and their 16-year-old son, Kevin, were apparently stabbed to death in their home early Saturday morning.
http://www.wgal.com/news/13308268/detail.html

A daughter, Margaret Leigh (Maggie) Haines, recently returned home from college, was allegedly asleep in her bedroom when she heard a noise and some type of scuffling sound. She got up and went to her mother's room. There, she saw her dad lying on the bed and her mother on the edge of the bed. The mother quietly told Margaret to get out and get help. Margaret left the house, went to a neighbor's and called 911. Officials said Margaret did not see an intruder or any suspects. When officers arrived about five minutes later, they found the couple dead in the bedroom and Kevin in a hallway. They did not recover a weapon. The back door to the home was found open.
http://www.wgal.com/news/13317694/detail.html

Rumors swirl around the mystery.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/204235

Police have clues...but no weapon, and no announced motive or suspects. Meanwhile, the community is on edge.
http://forums.ibsys.com/viewmessages.cfm?sitekey=lan&Forum=323&Topic=15876

Neffsville Mennonite Church plans to host Blossom Hill Mennonite and Saint Peter’s Lutheran for a community prayer service on Wednesday night.
http://www.wgal.com/news/13319778/detail.html

I have taken time to read some of the older articles today and somehow I missed one on May 13, 2007 on wgal.news.

It stated that Maggie was not asleep at the time (2:30 am) all this happened. So it makes me wonder had Maggie been out that Friday night seeing her old friends and had just come back in prior to this happening?

imoo

[Mishell1383]

This whole thing is just weird. I did read a book called "The Vampire Killings" one of the daughters of this murdered couple had friends who were into vampire rituals. It was a story about the Wendorf's, however the daughter did not kill the parents, her friends did, when she did not know. They bludgeoned her parents to death. Because they were putting their foot down with her hanging out with them. As she was only 15, Heather is her name. I know its probably far fetched but something just reminds me of this book, in all honesty I really don't know what could be linking the two, but it links together in my head for some reason. Just wanted to throw that out there. of course all IMO

:seeya:

[dallasvic]

Ah I didn't know that the daughter had just got back from a year from school. Do you know what kind of jobs her parents had? I think that would be useful information to know.
It's strange that their daughter was spending her first night home but that could just be coincedence.
I thought that if she had met anyone online like a penpal during her year away and told them that she was heading home on that day and she gave them her address a while back could it have been meant for her? Like a stalker or something? Sounds like the work of an obsessive stalker to me or someone wanting revenge.
:seeya: Hi AO,
This might help!
At about 2:20 a.m. on May 12, Margaret "Maggie" Haines, 20, was awakened by a commotion coming from her brother's bedroom. When she went to investigate, she heard her mother call to her from her bedroom. When she stepped inside, she found her mother, Lisa Ann, 47, sitting on the edge of her bed, bleeding profusely from a wound to her stomach. Barely conscious, Lisa told her daughter to "go get help." Maggie quickly ran next door to a neighbor's house and called 911.
When investigators arrived on the scene, they discovered that Lisa had succumbed to her injuries and died. Her husband, Thomas Alan, 50, was lying on the bed behind her. He was also dead. In a nearby hallway, authorities discovered Margaret's 16-year-old brother Kevin. As with his parents, he had also been stabbed to death.

Maggie was asleep and was woke by a noise toward Steve's room and the her mother call for her. I will post some more to go with your questions from your other post .
You said you just heard about it so i will see if I can get you up to date.:) If you have any other questions just ask . Everyone here is will to help!!
:seeya:

[dallasvic]

Ah I didn't know that the daughter had just got back from a year from school. Do you know what kind of jobs her parents had? I think that would be useful information to know.
It's strange that their daughter was spending her first night home but that could just be coincedence.
I thought that if she had met anyone online like a penpal during her year away and told them that she was heading home on that day and she gave them her address a while back could it have been meant for her? Like a stalker or something? Sounds like the work of an obsessive stalker to me or someone wanting revenge.
According to Harkins, his department has found no evidence linking Maggie Haines to the crimes. He described her as cooperative but in the same breath said he was "open to all possibilities

If this was some things planned by Maggie and a boyfriend, then Maggie IMO would have never came out of her room. And if there is a insurance police I am sure it would go to Maggie, but until this case is solved she will not get anything.
In a earlier post by Paula , she had a great theory, that since it was a sword it could have been Dungeon's & Dragons that teens play and many people did become the targets and were killed.
Serial killers do not target families and anyway the person or persons had to know the layout of the home to get around without nothings over . IMO then went for the parents first . They were the biggest threat then to Steve's and not knowing Maggie was home , that is why she is alive

[dallasvic]

AO here is some more,hope this is getting you up to date~!!:)
Ah I didn't know that the daughter had just got back from a year from school. Do you know what kind of jobs her parents had? I think that would be useful information to know.
It's strange that their daughter was spending her first night home but that could just be coincedence.
I thought that if she had met anyone online like a penpal during her year away and told them that she was heading home on that day and she gave them her address a while back could it have been meant for her? Like a stalker or something? Sounds like the work of an obsessive stalker to me or someone wanting revenge.

Pennsylvania Family's Triple Homicide Stumps Local Authorities






As of this writing, investigators have no suspects in the crimes. They are currently researching each family member's background to see if they can find a person of interest or a motive for the murders.
What we know about the victims is limited. According to neighbors, they were not very sociable within the community. According to police, Thomas Haines was a salesman at Motion Industries in Lancaster, and wife Lisa was a teacher at Lancaster Brethren Preschool. Kevin was a sophomore at Manheim Township High School, where he was an active member of the Quiz Bowl team. The family's lone survivor, Maggie, just completed her sophomore year at Bucknell. She moved back home two days before the murders took place

[Serendipitous1]

Fox News (Greta) video clips at YouTube, including interview of a guy from People magazine:
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=%22Haines+Family%22Updated with another interview of People magazine...the publisher of which, in my opinion, put Maggie's life in danger and did not advance the public's understanding of this horrible crime one bit. What surprises me is that Gretchen von OJ/Fox got scooped on the sleaze factor. That is usually her/its forte.

[Hey Paula]

Updated with another interview of People magazine...the publisher of which, in my opinion, put Maggie's life in danger and did not advance the public's understanding of this horrible crime one bit. What surprises me is that Gretchen von OJ/Fox got scooped on the sleaze factor. That is usually her/its forte.

I'm not sure I understand your concern. What "sleaze factor" are you referring to?

TIA

[Serendipitous1]

I'm not sure I understand your concern. What "sleaze factor" are you referring to? TIAMy opinion: I am still upset that "People" magazine published a photo of Maggie, and then other media ran a photo of the "People" photo of her. As for "Fox News"...the name belies that organization's long standing penchant for titilation over substance. WGALtv reported this morning that police still have no motive and no suspect. The killer is still out there. Compromizing an investigation is bad enough. Jeopardizing a victim's safety is inexcusable.

The reward for information leading to an arrest is now $20,000.
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=b7f79566-c2d5-48f2-aecb-e6b2720e1019

[Hey Paula]

My opinion: I am still upset that "People" magazine published a photo of Maggie, and then other media ran a photo of the "People" photo of her. As for "Fox News"...the name belies that organization's long standing penchant for titilation over substance. WGALtv reported this morning that police still have no motive and no suspect. The killer is still out there. Compromizing an investigation is bad enough. Jeopardizing a victim's safety is inexcusable.

The reward for information leading to an arrest is now $20,000.
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=b7f79566-c2d5-48f2-aecb-e6b2720e1019

Thanks for your reply.

Maggie hasn't identified the person who killed her family, so he has nothing to fear from her. Since LE is seeking assistance from the public, and have consulted a criminal profiler, it appears they don't have any leads pointing to a specific perp. Inasmuch as the reports don't say where Maggie is and with whom she is staying, so I don't think her life is in danger.

I believe the person who committed this horrible crime is known to the family, since nothing was taken from the house, and this doesn't appear to be a burglary gone wrong. I understand a bloody shoe print was left at the scene of the crime. This is a valuable piece of evidence, which can later be used against the perp once he is caught.

IMO

:rose: In Memory of the Haines Family

[dallasvic]

Thanks for your reply.

Maggie hasn't identified the person who killed her family, so he has nothing to fear from her. Since LE is seeking assistance from the public, and have consulted a criminal profiler, it appears they don't have any leads pointing to a specific perp. Inasmuch as the reports don't say where Maggie is and with whom she is staying, so I don't think her life is in danger.

I believe the person who committed this horrible crime is known to the family, since nothing was taken from the house, and this doesn't appear to be a burglary gone wrong. I understand a bloody shoe print was left at the scene of the crime. This is a valuable piece of evidence, which can later be used against the perp once he is caught.

IMO

:rose: In Memory of the Haines Family

Hi Paula and Everyone,

One bad thing about that shoe print, by telling the public they are telling the KILLER and they are telling the KILLER to get rid of the shoes they wore:shrug: That was a big mistake:no:

[Hey Paula]

Hi Paula and Everyone,

One bad thing about that shoe print, by telling the public they are telling the KILLER and they are telling the KILLER to get rid of the shoes they wore:shrug: That was a big mistake:no:

Hi Dallas!

You're probably right! I wonder if the killer had already dumped those shoes when he noticed blood on the soles. Oftentimes, LE can glean quite a bit from a shoe print, e.g., learning the make and model of the shoe, where they are sold, and even perhaps who bought them.

LE might not even have a bloody shoe print, but are releasing that info to fluster the killer into tripping up in a panicked state.

IMO

[Serendipitous1]

Hey Paula: Hope you are right about Maggie not being in danger. But if the killer was someone known to one or more of the family members, and/or was intent on wiping this family out, Maggie might be viewed as unfinished business. She is being protected by family right now. But that can not last indefinitely. If the killer did not know what she looked like, People magazine took care of that. On the other hand, Maggie posted that and other photos online long ago, and has still not taken them down. That could imply something more positive about the unstated state of this investigation.

dallasvic: While I would like to think that there will be forensic evidence remaining to link a suspect with the crime, I have to believe the very first thing the killer did was to destroy obvious evidence...especially anything with blood on it. Just read Hey Paula's response. LE disinformation is certainly a possibility.

All just my opinion.

[dallasvic]

Hi Dallas!

You're probably right! I wonder if the killer had already dumped those shoes when he noticed blood on the soles. Oftentimes, LE can glean quite a bit from a shoe print, e.g., learning the make and model of the shoe, where they are sold, and even perhaps who bought them.

LE might not even have a bloody shoe print, but are releasing that info to fluster the killer into tripping up in a panicked state.

IMO
Hey Paula,

As far as a shoe print go my understanding after watching forensic and others on CTV. AND I HAVE SEEN my share I love to watch them .
Anyway, from my understand they can determine what type shoe and all the people that bought them possibly. But do you thin kl they will be able to tie it down to one person without the shoes,because they would need the shoes to match the wear patterns of that particular person ;to make a conviction stick would they have not ?
If that is all the evidence they have and they don't have prints witness etc, I just hope and pray that this person does not watch T.V. or read the paper and does not get rid of the shoes.

[Hey Paula]

Hey Paula: Hope you are right about Maggie not being in danger. But if the killer was someone known to one or more of the family members, and/or was intent on wiping this family out, Maggie might be viewed as unfinished business. She is being protected by family right now. But that can not last indefinitely. If the killer did not know what she looked like, People magazine took care of that. On the other hand, Maggie posted that and other photos online long ago, and has still not taken them down. That could imply something more positive about the unstated state of this investigation.

dallasvic: While I would like to think that there will be forensic evidence remaining to link a suspect with the crime, I have to believe the very first thing the killer did was to destroy obvious evidence...especially anything with blood on it. Just read Hey Paula's response. LE disinformation is certainly a possibility.

All just my opinion.

Hi Serendipitous!

LE is aware this horrific triple murder wasn't a random killing, and are keeping a watchful eye on Maggie, so no harm comes to her. Do you know if Maggie has a boyfriend?

A crime such as this, if committed by someone who sought revenge, cannot be kept secret indefinitely, as someone somewhere must know what caused this person to do something so horrific. It might even be a perceived notion in the killer's mind which caused him to strike out in such a heinous fashion.

Crimes like this, which aren't committed by a random killer, are usually motivated by either financial or personal gain, or revenge.

IMO

[Serendipitous1]

Hi Serendipitous!

LE is aware this horrific triple murder wasn't a random killing, and are keeping a watchful eye on Maggie, so no harm comes to her. Do you know if Maggie has a boyfriend?

A crime such as this, if committed by someone who sought revenge, cannot be kept secret indefinitely, as someone somewhere must know what caused this person to do something so horrific. It might even be a perceived notion in the killer's mind which caused him to strike out in such a heinous fashion.

Crimes like this, which aren't committed by a random killer, are usually motivated by either financial or personal gain, or revenge.

IMOAll just my opinion. I was going to respond to your post over at Courttv, but I will do it here. I do not know the Haines family. There is some information that she had a boyfriend while in high school. But I have read (and believe) posts on another forum, from someone who appears to know Maggie from college (I suspect it is her roommate), that Maggie has no current boyfriend. Obviously, as sole heir, Maggie had a lot to gain. But I have not gotten any sense that money was the motive. My belief is that, but for the grace of God, she too would have been killed that night.

[Hey Paula]

Hey Paula,

As far as a shoe print go my understanding after watching forensic and others on CTV. AND I HAVE SEEN my share I love to watch them .
Anyway, from my understand they can determine what type shoe and all the people that bought them possibly. But do you thin kl they will be able to tie it down to one person without the shoes,because they would need the shoes to match the wear patterns of that particular person ;to make a conviction stick would they have not ?
If that is all the evidence they have and they don't have prints witness etc, I just hope and pray that this person does not watch T.V. or read the paper and does not get rid of the shoes.

Hi Dallas!

IIRC, the media reports said the killer ran away on foot, which suggests the killer is either a local resident or had his car parked away from the house.

If the shoe is sold locally, LE can check with the stores selling that make and style shoe, and hope the killer charged the purchase. The rarer the shoe, the easier it will be to track the owners. If the shoe is sold on the inernet or mail order, LE can check those as well against area residents purchases via their credit cards. LE already knows what size that shoe is, so all other buyers, who bought that shoe in a different size, will likely be eliminated.

Even if the killer got rid of the shoes, if LE uses the above-mentioned method, through process of elimination, they might still be able to catch the killer from that bloody shoe print, if indeed it exists.

IMO

[Hey Paula]

All just my opinion. I was going to respond to your post over at Courttv, but I will do it here. I do not know the Haines family. There is some information that she had a boyfriend while in high school. But I have read (and believe) posts on another forum, from someone who appears to know Maggie from college (I suspect it is her roommate), that Maggie has no current boyfriend. Obviously, as sole heir, Maggie had a lot to gain. But I have not gotten any sense that money was the motive. My belief is that, but for the grace of God, she too would have been killed that night.

Thanks for your reply. I was thinking along the lines of a boyfriend (or one aspiring to be) who perhaps the family didn't approve of, and who might have felt he'd have a chance with Maggie if they were eliminated.

IMO

[dallasvic]

Hi Dallas!

IIRC, the media reports said the killer ran away on foot, which suggests the killer is either a local resident or had his car parked away from the house.

If the shoe is sold locally, LE can check with the stores selling that make and style shoe, and hope the killer charged the purchase. The rarer the shoe, the easier it will be to track the owners. If the shoe is sold on the inernet or mail order, LE can check those as well against area residents purchases via their credit cards. LE already knows what size that shoe is, so all other buyers, who bought that shoe in a different size, will likely be eliminated.

Even if the killer got rid of the shoes, if LE uses the above-mentioned method, through process of elimination, they might still be able to catch the killer from that bloody shoe print, if indeed it exists.

IMO

Hi Again Paula,

Totally GREAT point . I did not think about that.I learn something new from you everyday:) I sure hope there is a print. Do you think that they really do not have a foot print ?:shrug:

[Hey Paula]

Hi Again Paula,

Totally GREAT point . I did not think about that.I learn something new from you everyday:) I sure hope there is a print. Do you think that they really do not have a foot print ?:shrug:


Because the ME described the crime as gruesome, claiming the victims were each stabbed approximately 10 times, I'm inclined to believe there truly is a bloody shoe print. The amount of blood generated by nearly 30 stab wounds must be have considerable, and since this crime took place at night, the killer might not have realized he stepped in the blood of his victims.

IMO

I'm happy and honored to post with you Dallas. You are a kind and compassionate person who truly cares about victims. :)

[Mishell1383]

Thanks for your reply. I was thinking along the lines of a boyfriend (or one aspiring to be) who perhaps the family didn't approve of, and who might have felt he'd have a chance with Maggie if they were eliminated.

IMO
my thoughts too, it seems as though maybe she was meant to be the sole survivor instead of the killer just missing her because he thought she was away at school. imo

[Jadedblueeyes]

Hi Again Paula,

Totally GREAT point . I did not think about that.I learn something new from you everyday:) I sure hope there is a print. Do you think that they really do not have a foot print ?:shrug:

Hi Dallas!

Also we can hope that the shoe print was made in very thick carpet. If it was soaked with blood then they may also be able to get a good tread wear pattern. All people walk differently and parts of their feet will wear on the shoes in different areas on the inside and the soles.

Whomever leaked this about the shoe print shouldn't have done so but sometimes killers aren't so smart. Some keep their shoes and some will pass them off to a family member or friend to hide them or pretend they are giving them away.

Sarano out of Florida gave his boots to his nephew and Scott Dyleski took his to his girlfriend's house after he murdered Pamela Vitale.

So we can hope.

Nice to see you.

Ocean:seeya:

[dallasvic]

Hi Dallas!

Also we can hope that the shoe print was made in very thick carpet. If it was soaked with blood then they may also be able to get a good tread wear pattern. All people walk differently and parts of their feet will wear on the shoes in different areas on the inside and the soles.

Whomever leaked this about the shoe print shouldn't have done so but sometimes killers aren't so smart. Some keep their shoes and some will pass them off to a family member or friend to hide them or pretend they are giving them away.

Sarano out of Florida gave his boots to his nephew and Scott Dyleski took his to his girlfriend's house after he murdered Pamela Vitale.


So we can hope.

Nice to see you.

Ocean:seeya:
:seeya: Hi Jaded & Everyone

I totally agree with all.We will just have to wait to see what the police have.:shrug:

[Jadedblueeyes]

:seeya: Hi Jaded & Everyone

I totally agree with all.We will just have to wait to see what the police have.:shrug:

Do you remember the Sarah Walker case out of Texas? I am hoping that it ends like that case. When she was murdered we heard nothing at all for about 2 months then LE came forward with an arrest.

In that case IIRC they had fingerprints and I believe they were made in blood also.

So I am just hoping that not all the forensics is back and they will get something back that will help them solve this case.

If it is a younger person though.......eventually someone will talk. Kids cant seem to keep their mouths shut when they know something and that is good for police.

imoo

[Serendipitous1]

Police Scour Blogs, Message Boards In Haines Investigation:
http://www.wgal.com/news/13490341/detail.html

[Hey Paula]

Police Scour Blogs, Message Boards In Haines Investigation:
http://www.wgal.com/news/13490341/detail.html

Hi Serendipitous and Everyone!

Thanks for posting the link.

I think online message boards, blogs and myspace accounts are extremely useful tools for LE. Joseph Duncan, Ben Fawley, Edwin Hall, et al, posted on the internet, revealing much of themselves, and their depraved thoughts. LE has caught more predators online, I suspect, than through any other means.

I wish them luck and success in capturing this killer who slaughtered all but one member of a entire family.

IMO

[bchand]

There has been an arrest in the murder of the Haines Family. (Sat, June 16)

His name is Alec Kreider. He is 16 yrs old and goes to Manheim H.S.
He is/was a friend of the teen member of the family who was also killed.

He is being charged with 3 counts of criminal homicide and 1 count of burglary.

They are saying it was premeditated.

That's all I got from the news conference.

[Jadedblueeyes]

There has been an arrest in the murder of the Haines Family. (Sat, June 16)

His name is Alec Kreider. He is 16 yrs old and goes to Manheim H.S.
He is/was a friend of the teen member of the family who was also killed.

He is being charged with 3 counts of criminal homicide and 1 count of burglary.

They are saying it was premeditated.

That's all I got from the news conference.

Thank you. I wonder if he was at the funeral? I bet he was.

Please update us if you hear additional information.

imoo

[bchand]

Thank you. I wonder if he was at the funeral? I bet he was.

Please update us if you hear additional information.

imoo

I will. I'm keeping my eyes and ears on all the local stations.

[bchand]

Here's a short article with the same info but it has a photo.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205755

[bchand]

Thanks to KittyMom over at CourtTV

http://crimeblog.us/archives/475

[Jadedblueeyes]

Here's a short article with the same info but it has a photo.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205755

Thank you so much for the links.

My word what in the world would possess a 16 year old kid to do something this despicable and depraved? Each time I think I have seen the worst I hear of something even more horrific than before. It just never seems to end and some of these murderers are getting younger and younger and the crimes more heinous. I am just bewildered by it all.

imoo

[bchand]

Thank you so much for the links.

My word what in the world would possess a 16 year old kid to do something this despicable and depraved? Each time I think I have seen the worst I hear of something even more horrific than before. It just never seems to end and some of these murderers are getting younger and younger and the crimes more heinous. I am just bewildered by it all.

imoo

I agree. Do you think he actually had a conscience? Something made him tell his Dad. Maybe more will come out eventually about why he was going to the house to begin with to "smother" the boy. I cannot fathom how anyone could do this, let alone a kid.

[Jadedblueeyes]

I agree. Do you think he actually had a conscience? Something made him tell his Dad. Maybe more will come out eventually about why he was going to the house to begin with to "smother" the boy. I cannot fathom how anyone could do this, let alone a kid.

Maybe his dad knew instantly and kept the pressure on the entire time to tell him what he was hiding.

I would like to think so bc but those with consciences do not brutally murder three defenseless human beings. From what was said he planned all of this so his conscience certainly wasn't his guide.

Yes, I very much now would like to know the full relationship both boys had with each other. This crime shows a lot of rage imo. Did he resent that Kevin had everything......got all the accolades and awards and he did not?

imoo

[Serendipitous1]

In the complaint against Kreider (Affadavit of Probable Cause), more details appear. Maggie heard someone yell for help inside her home. She ran across the street to the neighbor. The neighbor called 9-1-1 at about 2:24 am. Several police officers arrived at about 2:36 am and spoke with Maggie at the neighbor's house before entering the Haines home. The previous reports of the wounds received by the 3 victims are confirmed.

Last Tuesday, Alec Kreider admitted to his dad that he entered the Haines home with the intent to smother Kevin, but instead intentionally used a knife to kill him and his parents. At about 7 pm on Thursday Alec's father called MTPD.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205779

A week or so before the arrest, Alec's neighbors said they heard that something may might be wrong with Alec. The boy's mother apparently confided in one neighbor that Alec had told a friend he was thinking of suicide. The friend told his mother; she told Alec's mother, who in turn, notified the police.

On Thursday a van was parked all day on the street where Alec lived with his mother. It got around quickly by word of mouth it was the cops staking out someone. On Friday evening there was a small army of police cars and forensic unit vehicles on the street. Officers were removing bags and bags from the Kreider home.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205778

[Serendipitous1]

Maybe his dad knew instantly and kept the pressure on the entire time to tell him what he was hiding.

I would like to think so bc but those with consciences do not brutally murder three defenseless human beings. From what was said he planned all of this so his conscience certainly wasn't his guide.

Yes, I very much now would like to know the full relationship both boys had with each other. This crime shows a lot of rage imo. Did he resent that Kevin had everything......got all the accolades and awards and he did not?

imooMy opinion: Attending school the following Monday, attending the funeral, the 2 day delay in the father's notification to LE. That strongly suggests this came as a complete surprise to Alec's parents. I can imagine both of them (as did the entire community, especially parents of HS students) registered their shock, horror, disbelief and sympathy regarding this tragedy for several weeks. I suspect that may have led Alec (however cold and calculating he was then, and whatever motive seemed so urgent to him then) to eventually break down. In any event, confessing was the first of many steps if Alec chooses to seek redemption.

[Mishell1383]

My opinion: Attending school the following Monday, attending the funeral, the 2 day delay in the father's notification to LE. That strongly suggests this came as a complete surprise to Alec's parents. <snipped>.
It also shows this boy shows a very serious lack of conscience. I've heard of older criminals/suspects going to funerals as almost like a sick game, but a 16 year old boy??? I just don't get it! I cannot fathom what had troubled this boy so much as to take it out on the family?? This makes me UTTERLY SICK!

[Jadedblueeyes]

It also shows this boy shows a very serious lack of conscience. I've heard of older criminals/suspects going to funerals as almost like a sick game, but a 16 year old boy??? I just don't get it! I cannot fathom what had troubled this boy so much as to take it out on the family?? This makes me UTTERLY SICK!

That is what is frightening. He planned all of this. No wonder people say no one knows what lurks in the heart of man.:( I wish Kevin had picked up on the bad jibes he had to be emitting before he did this deplorable thing. I wonder if he had made threats to him before this happened.

He came into their home and slaughtered them. What in the world did they ever do to this kid to deserve such a horrible death? It is mind boggling at the coldness and depravity.

I do feel sorry for Alec's parents. He made them victims too in all of this.

imoo

[Sharon]

What a tragedy for everyone, the victims, the survivors, the perps family too. As a society we are all effected when a young teenager turns into a cold blooded murderer. It goes beyond our comprehension. imo

I am glad the the pep ended up confessing. Does anyone know if he would have been caught otherwise. Would he have slipped through the cracks hiding in public and behind his youth?? Its a scary thought. imo

[Jadedblueeyes]

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205798

[bchand]

I don't see this posted yet. The hearing schedule for this Wednesday has been postponed. His lawyer said he needs more time. I didn't see a new date yet.

[bchand]

Suspect reportedly threatened suicide

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205810

LANCASTER COUNTY, Pa. - The suspected killer of three Manheim Township family members had contemplated suicide, and police were called to his home early one morning about a week before his arrest, a neighbor said Monday.

Shortly after 1 a.m. on June 6, numerous police officers — including a negotiator — descended on the home of Alec Devon Kreider's mother in Cobblestone Court, the neighbor said.

The incident, which the neighbor said lasted for several minutes, ended with Kreider being taken away in police custody.



I hadn't realized he was actually IN police custody prior to his arrest.


"While standing outside Mrs. Kreider's home, the neighbor said he heard one police officer tell a colleague, "The boy (Alec) has been depressed and the Haines murders didn't help anything."


So even some police officers didn't suspect he was the killer.

[Hey Paula]

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205798

Hi Ocean!

Thanks for posting the link to that article.

I wonder if Alec was "attracted" to Kevin and perhaps the attraction wasn't returned or appreciated?

From all that I've read, Alec and Kevin were good friends. Alec excelled in school, which leads me to explore other motives besides jealousy over grades. The fact that Alec was seen crying, over the loss of Kevin, by several people in different settings, causes me to question this being a rage killing.

I also noticed the article mentioned "sensitive information contained within the search warrant affidavit".

IMO

[Mishell1383]

Suspect reportedly threatened suicide

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205810

LANCASTER COUNTY, Pa. - The suspected killer of three Manheim Township family members had contemplated suicide, and police were called to his home early one morning about a week before his arrest, a neighbor said Monday.

Shortly after 1 a.m. on June 6, numerous police officers — including a negotiator — descended on the home of Alec Devon Kreider's mother in Cobblestone Court, the neighbor said.

The incident, which the neighbor said lasted for several minutes, ended with Kreider being taken away in police custody.



I hadn't realized he was actually IN police custody prior to his arrest.


"While standing outside Mrs. Kreider's home, the neighbor said he heard one police officer tell a colleague, "The boy (Alec) has been depressed and the Haines murders didn't help anything."


So even some police officers didn't suspect he was the killer.
This leads me to believe that he would have just gotten away with a triple homicide. imo

[Jadedblueeyes]

Hi Ocean!

Thanks for posting the link to that article.

I wonder if Alec was "attracted" to Kevin and perhaps the attraction wasn't returned or appreciated?

From all that I've read, Alec and Kevin were good friends. Alec excelled in school, which leads me to explore other motives besides jealousy over grades. The fact that Alec was seen crying, over the loss of Kevin, by several people in different settings, causes me to question this being a rage killing.

I also noticed the article mentioned "sensitive information contained within the search warrant affidavit".

IMO

I am sure the search warrants have been sealed to protect the gravity of the scene. They usually have the LE description (affidavit of lead investigator) of the scene attached to the search warrant. I think this place was left a house of horrors. Who knows what all they found as we know they are not releasing nearly what they found there. They do not want to prejudice him before his PH with all of it being out for public consumption.

I am not sure what happened or whether Kevin spurned Alec in someway. With kids it seems it can be the slightest thing sometimes. Kevin too was very smart and excelled. That is why I thought there may have been some seething rivalry buried inside of Alec over the years.

Imo what he feels now has no bearing on how he felt the morning that he came into their home to murder them. It does seem very much like uncontrollable rage/hatred overkill to me.

Did you read the Lancaster on line article about all of the teenagers that have murdered from that area? Now that is spooky.

Nice to see you Paula and I understand perfectly what you are saying.

imoo:seeya:

[Jadedblueeyes]

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205818

Hope this hasnt been linked already.

[Hey Paula]

I am sure the search warrants have been sealed to protect the gravity of the scene. They usually have the LE description (affidavit of lead investigator) of the scene attached to the search warrant. I think this place was left a house of horrors. Who knows what all they found as we know they are not releasing nearly what they found there. They do not want to prejudice him before his PH with all of it being out for public consumption.

I am not sure what happened or whether Kevin spurned Alec in someway. With kids it seems it can be the slightest thing sometimes. Kevin too was very smart and excelled. That is why I thought there may have been some seething rivalry buried inside of Alec over the years.

Imo what he feels now has no bearing on how he felt the morning that he came into their home to murder them. It does seem very much like uncontrollable rage/hatred overkill to me.

Did you read the Lancaster on line article about all of the teenagers that have murdered from that area? Now that is spooky.

Nice to see you Paula and I understand perfectly what you are saying.

imoo:seeya:

Hi again Ocean! :seeya:

I didn't read the article about the teens who've murdered from that area, but I'd like to read it. There are a number of lancasteronline articles. Do you know which link contains that article? TIA.

In striving to get into the minds of some of those who seem to murder so senselessly and horrifically, I often forget there doesn't have to be a reasonable explanation for an unreasonable and senseless act. I agree with you about the overkill, and that it could be nothing more than rivalry which motivated Alec to commit such an unspeakable crime. To have murdered three people in such a horrible way, if motivated by rage, I just found it surprising that Alec would cry so quickly and so often.

IMO

It's always great to see you!

[Jadedblueeyes]

Hi again Ocean! :seeya:

I didn't read the article about the teens who've murdered from that area, but I'd like to read it. There are a number of lancasteronline articles. Do you know which link contains that article? TIA.

In striving to get into the minds of some of those who seem to murder so senselessly and horrifically, I often forget there doesn't have to be a reasonable explanation for an unreasonable and senseless act. I agree with you about the overkill, and that it could be nothing more than rivalry which motivated Alec to commit such an unspeakable crime. To have murdered three people in such a horrible way, if motivated by rage, I just found it surprising that Alec would cry so quickly and so often.

IMO

It's always great to see you!


I am sure he regrets what he has done or I would certainly like to think so. I wish that conscience had been in play before he went and murdered 3 innocent people.

LOL Funny you asked I have been trying to find it again. I know that I linked it either here or on CTV yesterday. I will try to locate it again. I am not finding it on the Lancaster site but then it wasn't really about these killings in particular although they were mentioned.

BRB!:seeya:

[Jadedblueeyes]

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205799


Here it is Paula.

Yippee! "I" know how to do links now! LOL!

[Hey Paula]

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205799

Here it is Paula.

Yippee! "I" know how to do links now! LOL!

Thanks, Ocean!

I hope I didn't inconvenience you with my request.

I read the article, and you're right, it is downright scary! What is going on in Lancaster County? Doesn't that county contain a large Quaker population? Teen murderers, including mass murder, is certainly on the rise and is extremely troubling. I do attribute much of it to violent video games, violence broadcasted in the media and violent, gory films.

IMO

:beer: I noticed your link expertise!

[bchand]

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205818

Hope this hasnt been linked already.

Thank you. I hadn't read this one yet. Note they also say he was still wearing the shoes with the blood on them from the crime scene.

[Mishell1383]

I have such respect for the father of Alec. He turned his son in and did the right thing, as hard as it must have been for him and his reputation, he was noble in doing so. IMO

[Jadedblueeyes]

Thanks, Ocean!

I hope I didn't inconvenience you with my request.

I read the article, and you're right, it is downright scary! What is going on in Lancaster County? Doesn't that county contain a large Quaker population? Teen murderers, including mass murder, is certainly on the rise and is extremely troubling. I do attribute much of it to violent video games, violence broadcasted in the media and violent, gory films.

IMO

:beer: I noticed your link expertise!

LOL Expertise.....I dont think I have achieved that yet but I sure have come along way baby since it only took me years. :biggrin: I finally remembered to ask my son when he was over one day and it took him 2 minutes to teach me. Old dogs can learn new tricks, see?:D

Yes it is scary. You would think the kids wouldnt be as tainted as some other areas of the country by the elements.

Inconvenience me?:D Nevah! I am just so proud that I finally can link but I am still a little slow on finding the article again if I have to go back and look for it.

imoo

[Sharon]

Its hard to get your head around a young boy who brutally stabbed 3 innocent members of a family he knew well, but then crys all the time and is visibly distressed in public.

To go thru with the killings one by one and not feel any remorse or guilt say after the first one is astounding. You would think someone with that coldness and lack of emotion (at the time of the killings) would have similar coldness after.

Too bad he didnt have these feelings before he set out to do such an attrocious thing. What goes on in the minds of killers will never cease to confuse me.

Its probably too early to tell, but it seems that but for his confession, he would not have come close to being caught.

I am very sorry for the victims, and the families of both the victims and the perp. I cant imagine how many lives have been ruined? I hope we get some answers that might help prevent things like this happening in the future, hopefully there is an explaination. imo

[Serendipitous1]

Police at Kreider home before arrest
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205810

Screams woke daughter (original search warrant unsealed)
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205834

Teen was questioned early
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205846

[Mishell1383]

Its so odd to me that he continued to wear those shoes!!!

[Serendipitous1]

Haines documents available
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205988

My opinion: for those who have followed this case closely, the information in the affidavit (with two redacted sentences) raise questions regarding the sequence of events that night. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in court. More to the point...I wonder even more at how fortunate it was that Maggie escaped the carnage. May God continue to bless Maggie. Her family must now live on through her.

[Mishell1383]

Haines documents available
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/205988

My opinion: for those who have followed this case closely, the information in the affidavit (with two redacted sentences) raise questions regarding the sequence of events that night. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in court. More to the point...I wonder even more at how fortunate it was that Maggie escaped the carnage. May God continue to bless Maggie. Her family must now live on through her.
maybe he had a crush on maggie?

[Serendipitous1]

Killer likely washed off blood in bathroom
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/206930

Inventory: What was found at the murder scene
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/206933

Unsealed court documents shed light on Haines killings
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/206953

Kreider's preliminary hearing was supposed to happen at the end of June, but it has just been rescheduled now for July 31 at 10:30 in the morning.
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=968fbeca-619f-4c73-b616-a89bbf85f517

[Mishell1383]

Killer likely washed off blood in bathroom
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/206930

Inventory: What was found at the murder scene
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/206933

Unsealed court documents shed light on Haines killings
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/206953

Kreider's preliminary hearing was supposed to happen at the end of June, but it has just been rescheduled now for July 31 at 10:30 in the morning.
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=968fbeca-619f-4c73-b616-a89bbf85f517
wow thanks for these updates serendipitous. i wonder if Kevin was sitting on the recliner when he was attaacked? What a story this one is. :(

[Serendipitous1]

Pretrial Conference scheduled for 10/11/2007; Judge Michael J. Perezous; Craig William Stedman, Esq., for the Commonwealth; John A. Kenneff, Esq., for the defense.
http://ujsportal.pacourts.us

[Serendipitous1]

Court Delay in Triple Murder Case. DA Stedman says earliest trial late this summer...if it goes to trial at all.
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=83a5aa3e-9860-401d-82f1-c7c61d2a1e0a&rss=50

Public defender John A. Kenneff died Tuesday evening (3/4/08) after a brief illness. Kenneff had represented Alec Kreider.
http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/217637

[Serendipitous1]

Kreider is scheduled to plead guilty...to something...on June 17.
http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/222663

[Serendipitous1]

Kreider, a "deviant, cowardly triple murderer", offered no apology or explanation in pleading guilty to 3 counts of first-degree murder. The judge ordered 3 consecutive life sentences.

By videotape, sole survivor Maggie Haines said she has been haunted by nightmares and longs to regain a normal life, and that "He stabbed my family to death...I'm not sure I can ever forgive him." The judge said he would put a note in Kreider's file to reflect strong objection if Kreider should ever be considered for clemency.

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/news/state/pennsylvania/20080617_ap_lancasterpateenadmitskillingfriendcoup le.html

[Serendipitous1]

http://www.wgal.com/news/16633628/detail.html

God bless Maggie Haines and all of her loved ones.

[One2Snoop]

http://www.wgal.com/news/16633628/detail.html

God bless Maggie Haines and all of her loved ones.

Thanks for keeping this site updated on the Haines story Serendiptous. Sending up all the prayers I possibly can for Maggie. She has a long road ahead of her. :rose:

[Serendipitous1]

http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/223250

MOO - Maggie Haines' video statement to court...what she has lived with ever since...is truly heartbreaking. May God continue to give her strength, and restore the playful gleam of youth that was once in her eyes...as my temporarily borrowed avatar of Maggie will attest. Her parents and her brother live on through her.

[Serendipitous1]

An imperfect, though sufficient, transcript of Maggie Haines' testimony at sentencing:
http://www.wgal.com/news/16637524/detail.html

MOO - Maggie Haines is coping with a horrific situation. May God continue to bless her and help her to recover from this tragedy.

[Serendipitous1]

For Maggie..and all of the Haines and Brown families:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHpye0M34JQ

[Serendipitous1]

Inmate HQ1732
http://www.cor.state.pa.us/inmatelocatorweb/

MOO - You're not in LCP anymore. Hope the boys in Camp Hill gave you a real good 'welcome'.

[Serendipitous1]

...wants concurrent life terms, not consecutive. Any future petition to the governor could then be for 1 pardon instead of 3.

http://www.wgal.com/news/16843790/detail.html
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=3f91644b-6430-4233-a072-37e097cd5de9

[Its just me]

...wants concurrent life terms, not consecutive. Any future petition to the governor could then be for 1 pardon instead of 3.

http://www.wgal.com/news/16843790/detail.html
http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=3f91644b-6430-4233-a072-37e097cd5de9

Bumping last post to move beyond posted sick porn.

[Serendipitous1]

Three and a half minutes later...and then, just a routine dispatch to an "unknown disturbance" from '911'. Probably right though...probably would not have mattered to the slaughtered family members, or in catching the perpetrator, even if the dispatcher had the mental capacity to understand the emergency. Then again...who knows? Too bad for the Haines family. Maybe next time...except that those who died won't have a next time. Will they?

http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/225751

[Serendipitous1]

And poor Alec Kreider...needs three aces in the hole, instead of one. Like that is ever gonna happen! Get use to your revolving cellmates, Alec...with emphasis on 'mates'.

http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/226252

[Serendipitous1]

This bloodthirsty monster now resides in SCI Pine Grove (Indiana PA), a "therapeutic community" for "Young Adult Offender males" where he will be "encouraged to make life changes in areas of self-responsibility, discipline, respect for others and themselves, and to develop positive self-esteem." He will attend school 4 hours a day there, and get hands on training to develop employable job skills.

http://www.cor.state.pa.us/inmatelocatorweb/
http://www.cor.state.pa.us/pinegrove/site/default.asp

Well isn't that nice! Maybe he will find a satisfying career in "building maintenance", as a lifer in the 'big house' when he turns 21. Then again, since his aptitude revolves around knives, maybe he will shoot for "culinary arts".

[CarlisleADK]

Does any of the circumstances of this tragedy make sense? I wonder why people haven't asked the difficult questions to want to know more.

I doubt he is a blood thirsty monster, though.