Common Ground?

[TuscanDreams]

Let's do this- there are some things that we can all agree on. Could we make a list?

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies washed ashore in the same area that Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.

Add more, let's just add the common ground that we all can agree on and build it up as we go along.

Stuff we can't agree on is opinion, like "Mark Geragos is a horrible attorney." While I may believe that, it's my opinion and he hasn't been disbarred, so lets keep this fact based. Sound ok?

[Beebee]

I can't agree that the bodies of Laci and Conner washed ashore. I think Conner was planted on the shore shortly before he was found.

But I can think of a few we can add to the list--

Do we all agree that Brocchini excised info from his report about Laci being seen at the warehouse?

Do we all agree that the MPD failed to properly investigate the Tracy tip?

Do we all agree that a convict told his brother Steve Todd threatened Laci when she interruped a burglary in progress?

[Miss Bootsie]

I can't agree that the bodies of Laci and Conner washed ashore. I think Conner was planted on the shore shortly before he was found.


Don't want to change the topic of this thread, but will you please share with me on another thread where you think Conner's body was stored for the four month period.

[Lili007]

I can't agree that the bodies of Laci and Conner washed ashore. I think Conner was planted on the shore shortly before he was found.



I see. You mean someone kept Conner in salt water for 4 months and then planted his little body in SF Bay to incriminate Scott.


But I can think of a few we can add to the list--

Do we all agree that Brocchini excised info from his report about Laci being seen at the warehouse?

Heck, no!!

Do we all agree that the MPD failed to properly investigate the Tracy tip?

Ummm... niet.

Do we all agree that a convict told his brother Steve Todd threatened Laci when she interruped a burglary in progress?

Never happened.

[Wudge]

Scott is non violent. He has no history of violence whatsoever.

Scott and Laci were never known to argue.

The Rochas themselves said Scott would never have harmed Laci.

There is no crime scene.

There is no place of death.

There is no time of death.

There is no cause of death.

There is no murder weapon.

There is no eyewitness.

There is no forensic evidence that supports Scott murdering Laci.

There is no clear and unyielding evidence of premeditation.

The M.E., Dr. Peterson testified Connor was full term.

The M.E.’s medical consultant, Dr. Alison Galloway, testified that the gestational age for Connor ranged from 33 months minimum to 38 weeks maximum.

There is no clear motive. Judge Delucchi said that he “didn't see any pre-offense statement that indicates any intent, plan, motive or design that he may have uttered.” This includes Scott saying that he had “lost” his wife. Thus, the Court (the 13th juror) did not find proof of premeditation from any of Scott’s statements. And Greg Bertalis said the jury did not know what Scott’s motive was .

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on Scott’s truck bed or inside the Greenlee tool box.

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent in the boat.

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on the boat cover.

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on the umbrellas that were in the back of Scott’s truck.

A dog handler, Ron Seitz, testified that working off scent from Laci’s pink slipper, his dog, TJ, did not find Laci’s scent at the marina.

No cadaver dog ever found a probative death scent, not one.

The night before, Scott asked Amy over for pizza.

The night before, Scott told Amy he would pick up her present at Vella Farms after 12:00AM on Xmas Eve.

Laci was found wearing different pants from those she wore the previous night.

Laci was found wearing a wire bra.

Laci’s walking shoes were never found.

Laci’s large diamond ear rings were never found.

Laci’s curling iron had been taken out of her drawer.

Per the FBI’s Caucasian data base, the odds of the hair in the pliers being Laci’s hair are 112-1 against that possibility.

Scott allegedly loading Laci’s body into the truck in broad daylight works against a theory of long-planned premeditation.

The State’s theory of Laci’s body being submerged in the full daylight of high noon works heavily against premeditation, period. Similarly, it works against the theory that Scott murdered Laci. [Note: Nancy Grace agrees and would have found Scott to be "not guilty" based on the alleged mid-day submerging.]

The duct tape found on Laci’s body did not match any duct tape that Scott owned or used.

The bodies were found at the location of Scott’s alibi. Therefore, this was a statement against self-interest (exculpatory evidence) of immense proportion.

The prior owner of the boat, Bruce Peterson, testified that he sent in paperwork that established the boat was now recorded to Scott Peterson at his Covena address.

Detective Grogan testified that any DMV notice of transfer tax due on the boat would have been mailed to Scott’s Covena address.

Scott is a lifelong fisherman and bought a fishing license.

As a fisherman would do, Scott bought lures, including a lure for stripers.

As a fisherman would do, Scott bought a new fishing rod.

As a fisherman would do, Scott researched the tides.

As a fisherman would do, Scott researched fishing camps.

Scott paid cash for the boat at the request of the boat’s owner.

Scott left the anchor behind at the request of the owner. He needed to have an anchor and, thus, Scott made a concrete anchor for the boat.

There was nothing sinister in the transaction of the purchase of the boat. Bruce Peterson knew about the boat, and the State recorded the boat to Scott at his home address, and Scott immediately told LE about the boat. Moreover, Distaso never claimed Scott did not register the boat, ever.

No testimony was given establishing that the 2 and ½ quart paint bucket (from RG Corporation) used by Scott for the anchor mold fit the cement circles on the deck of the trailer.

Regarding the twine defying the law of physics and working itself over Connor’s head, Dr Wecht responded to a question from Greta on 10-27-04 and said: “You talk about something coming over the head, the body's floating in the water? You couldn't do that in a million years.”

Per Dr. Wecht, Connor’s head measured 28 centimeters in circumference. His neck measured 20 centimeters in circumference. The twice-knotted twine around Connor’s neck measured (approx.) 23 ½ centimeters in circumference.

The ME, Dr. Brian Peterson, testified that heavy, round and oval mineralized stones were found on the threads of Laci’s pant legs.

Mineralized stones can not form underwater. For mineralized stones to form, exposure to the sun and/or air is needed. Thus, Laci’s body would have needed to be exposed to a large number of wet/dry cycles to form heavy the stones. A marsh would provide such a setting.

The Hoffman Marsh is located right between where Connor’s body was found and where Laci’s body was found.

The Hoffman Marsh is easily accessible without a boat. A public parking lot is immediately adjacent to it.

Only one anchor was found. The one Scott found in his boat and that Scott freely admitted making.

The water pitcher was not the mold for Scott’s anchor as alleged/implied by Detectives Brocchini and Hendee. A petrographer, Robert O’Neill, testified that he told Detective Grogan ”there is no way that that pitcher is the mold for the concrete anchor.”

Any person standing on the marina’s boat dock would have been able to look down and into Scott’s small boat to see Laci’s body.

Dr. Cheng testified that the tidal conditions that would have sent Conner’s body north toward the inner Richmond Harbor could not explain Laci Peterson’s body being found far further south.

Connor’s body made it over the rock jetty uninjured.
The boat was too small to “safely” dump a 150lb+ body that allegedly also had submerging anchors tied to it.

There was no testimony of unaccounted for rebars (used as a handle for Scott’s single anchor).

Detective Hendee knowingly gave false testimony that the water pitcher was the mold for Scott’s anchor. His lie was caught by Geragos, and he was impeached.

With Detective Brocchini as the set-up man and Detective Hendee as his sworn witness, the prosecutor, David Harris, conspired to perpetrate a knowing fraud upon the Court and the jury; i.e., that the water pitcher was the mold for Scott’s anchor.

Detective Brocchini was impeached over and over as regards: the infamous “meringue”, the multiplying hair, the made-up duct tape, and excising from his notes that Laci was at the warehouse.

A dog handler, Eloise Anderson, was severely impeached in the same vein as another dog handler, Cindee Valentine, was impeached in a pre-trial hearing (her dog was Merlin). Also impeached was Eloise Anderson’s theory that her dog, Trimble, trailed Laci’s scent for 90 miles and, working off of the eyeglass case, found Laci’s scent at the marina.

Judge Delucchi gave the jury instruction 2.21 (witness willfully false). Thus, the jury was permitted to totally disregard the testimony of: Detective Brocchini, Detective Hendee, Eloise Anderson et al.

[Wudge]

Four or five anchors the size of Scott’s anchor would not have kept Laci’s body from floating to the surface.

The boat’s motor had never been tested in salt water. Scott had no way of knowing it would work.

The concrete poured along the side of the driveway matched the concrete in the anchor.

LE never found the mythical submerging anchors despite searching the bay for months.

LE never found the bodies despite searching the bay for months.

LE never found the men that Tom Harshman reported seeing pulling a pregnant women into a van on 12/28.

LE never found the pregnant woman who was reported by many people to have been walking her golden retriever the morning of Xmas Eve.

LE never found the parked van that was seen by Diane Jackson and Kristen Reed across the street from the Laci’s house.

Bates #14765 is proof positive that on the morning of 12/24, Steven Todd, Donald Pierce et al, were burglarizing the Medina’s home across the street from the Petersons.

The burglar’s original storyline said the burglary occurred on 12/27.

The burglars could not have, as claimed, seen mail in the Medina’s mailbox on 12/26.

The burglars claimed only the safe was carted away in a car. The burglars could not have, as claimed, carted all of the other stolen items away by bike.

Diane Jackson saw three men, a van and a safe on 12/24, but only two men went to prison.

The burglars left behind items of significant value that were in plain view.

The large diamond earrings that Laci inherited were never found.

Just days after Laci’s disappearance, Deanna Renfro pawned a Croton watch that had gems.

Testimony established that McKenzie was a barking machine. However, McKenzie did not bark at the postman, Mr. Graybill, on Xmas Eve. This strongly implies he was out walking and, thus, not in the courtyard when the mail was delivered between 10:35AM and 10:50AM.

Scott did hear Martha Stewart say “meringue” at 9:48AM.

Scott bought a mortiser shortly before 12/24 so he could build a table top.

Inside the warehouse, Scott assembled the mortiser while Laci’s body was allegedly ripening there.

Scott looked up assembly instruction for the mortiser when he was in the warehouse.

Scott called to check his business voicemail at 10:08AM, while, per the State, Laci’s body was allegedly ripening in the back of his truck.

At the warehouse, Scott sent a Xmas email to his boss while Laci’s body was allegedly ripening at the warehouse.

A sunflower-motif umbrella stand and a gap scarf gad been pulled-up on the home computer at 8:40AM.

Scott went with Laci to her doctor on 12/23.

LE did not bring a cadaver dog to the bay, yet they thought Laci might well have been murdered the night before by Scott.

Officer Phillips testified that he and his superior officer both smelled the same scent on a tarp that was found near Laci’s body as the scent that came from her body.

Scott did not have a secret cell phone. The calls he made coming back from the bay could easily have established that he was out of the Modesto area that day. This is support that the only thing Scott was trying to hide was his affair. And those calls also work heavily against the state's claim that submerging Laci's body in the bay had long been planned.

Cold weather on Xmas Eve caused Scott to change his plan from golfing to boating. This works significantly against the State’s theory of a long-planned (premeditated) murder.

Laci knew Scott played around (Janet Ilse was well known to her).

Laci never told her parents or friends that Scott played around.

[Lili007]

OMG! I never realised how heavily you were invested in this. It's kind of scary, REALLY scary. If that's what you want in your life, you're doing a great job of it.

I'm not comfortable with your stance at all. I hate confrontation and will never enable it, or perpetuate it.

Bye Bye Wudge.

[Wudge]

As have others here, I've followed thiis case in detail from the very beginning.

I wish you the very best.

[cookiewench]

Cold weather NEVER has caused anyone to change their plans from golfing to fishing.

Everyone knows that if it's cold out, it's going to be colder, wetter, and windier on the ocean.

That was the most absurd excuse I'd even heard. Golfers golf year-round, even in winter - but the bay was totally deserted that day.

Also, Scott said that he left the bay because it started rainy, and that he washed his clothes because they were wet & stinky/fishy - yet he never fished that day, and his coat - bone dry, was on the back floor of the truck.

[Wudge]

Cold weather NEVER has caused anyone to change their plans from golfing to fishing.

Everyone knows that if it's cold out, it's going to be colder, wetter, and windier on the ocean.

That was the most absurd excuse I'd even heard. Golfers golf year-round, even in winter - but the bay was totally deserted that day.

Also, Scott said that he left the bay because it started rainy, and that he washed his clothes because they were wet & stinky/fishy - yet he never fished that day, and his coat - bone dry, was on the back floor of the truck.

Cookie, if you check the weather for Modesto and the bay that day, you will find that it was warmer at the bay. Moreover, testimony established that one of the internet searches that was made on the home computer that morning was a weather check.

If you have been long planning to submerge a body in the middle of the day in the bay and now have that body all wrapped up and ready to go, you are not going to be checking the weather for drizzle.

[Lili007]

As have others here, I've followed thiis case in detail from the very beginning.

I wish you the very best.


Thank you. Wishes go both ways - I wish you the same. :seeya:

Lili

[cookiewench]

Cookie, if you check the weather for Modesto and the bay that day, you will find that it was warmer at the bay. Moreover, testimony established that one of the internet searches that was made on the home computer that morning was a weather check.

If you have been long planning to submerge a body in the middle of the day in the bay and now have that body all wrapped up and ready to go, you are not going to be checking the weather for drizzle.


It doesn't matter if it was a few degrees warmer at the bay. It's ALWAYS chillier out on the water. If it was "too cold" for golfing, it was way too cold for fishing.

Although the bay was virtually deserted that day, I'll bet there were guys golfing at Scott's club.

As for what someone would do if they planned to dump a body in the bay, how would you know?

The whole story just reeks. He didn't decide til 11:00 that it was too cold to golf, and then decided to drive 90 miles to take an untested boat out? Puleeze. He said that he left because it started raining - not because he was due back for dinner? He told Laci he was going fishing, but she didn't remind him that he wouldn't be able to get home in time to pick up the fruit basket if he did?

His wife had neither answered the phone or called him back all day, and yet he was so unconcerned that he did laundry and took a shower?

Even smooth, habitual liars like Scott get tripped up.

[Miss Bootsie]

Cookie, if you check the weather for Modesto and the bay that day, you will find that it was warmer at the bay. Moreover, testimony established that one of the internet searches that was made on the home computer that morning was a weather check.

If you have been long planning to submerge a body in the middle of the day in the bay and now have that body all wrapped up and ready to go, you are not going to be checking the weather for drizzle.

Nope, you're wrong.

On the water, riding in a motor propelled boat, Scott was much cooler on the Bay than he would have been on a golf course.

[accordn2me]

I can't agree that the bodies of Laci and Conner washed ashore. I think Conner was planted on the shore shortly before he was found.

But I can think of a few we can add to the list--

Do we all agree that Brocchini excised info from his report about Laci being seen at the warehouse?

Do we all agree that the MPD failed to properly investigate the Tracy tip?

Do we all agree that a convict told his brother Steve Todd threatened Laci when she interruped a burglary in progress?

1. Laci was seen at the warehouse on the 24th?

2. Disagree. The defense failed to properly investigate whatever you're talking about.

3. Disagree.

[accordn2me]

My list won't be "common ground" but there are some things I could agree with the people who believe Scott's innocent:

1. The tan pants Laci was found wearing were different tan pants than the ones she wore to the salon.

2. Laci got the curling iron out the morning of the 24th.

3. The blinds were not open because Laci hadn't put her shirt on yet.

[One2Snoop]

Cold weather NEVER has caused anyone to change their plans from golfing to fishing.

Everyone knows that if it's cold out, it's going to be colder, wetter, and windier on the ocean.

That was the most absurd excuse I'd even heard. Golfers golf year-round, even in winter - but the bay was totally deserted that day.

Also, Scott said that he left the bay because it started rainy, and that he washed his clothes because they were wet & stinky/fishy - yet he never fished that day, and his coat - bone dry, was on the back floor of the truck.

I can definitly vouch for the golf - Yes they sure do - we live in a gated community and the golf course is practically in our back yard. I've even seen people out golfing on December rainy mornings right here in Northern California.

[One2Snoop]

Scott and Laci were never known to argue.

This cannot be proven as fact. Our friends, family and neighbors would tell you we don't argue either, but we certainly have our disagreements behind closed doors on occasion.

[Anne2719]

Well, so much for a well-intentioned good idea, huh? TuscanDreams had a really nice thread started, and so far most of the responses indicate an out-and-out refusal to look for things to AGREE upon.

Can we try again, and add one item at a time for discussion?

Starting with TD's list (and modifying one item):

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered in the same area that Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.

4. Scott was stopped on the road to the border wearing a new hair color.

[accordn2me]

Well, so much for a well-intentioned good idea, huh? TuscanDreams had a really nice thread started, and so far most of the responses indicate an out-and-out refusal to look for things to AGREE upon.

Can we try again, and add one item at a time for discussion?

Starting with TD's list (and modifying one item):

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered in the same area that Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.

4. Scott was stopped on the road to the border wearing a new hair color.


1. Can we change the word deceased to murdered?
2. 3. 4. agreed
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.

[Beebee]

Well, so much for a well-intentioned good idea, huh? TuscanDreams had a really nice thread started, and so far most of the responses indicate an out-and-out refusal to look for things to AGREE upon.

Can we try again, and add one item at a time for discussion?

Starting with TD's list (and modifying one item):

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered in the same area that Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.

4. Scott was stopped on the road to the border wearing a new hair color.

Thank you. I can go with new #2 :) Oops, edit, no I can't... they weren't discovered in the same area. They were not discovered by Brooks Island. They were discovered in the Bay area. That's the closest fact.

Not new #4 though.... Scott was not far from the border (nor is all of San Diego), but he was not headed in that direction.... Nor was his hair color "new"... he had it that way for 2 months. MPD was well aware.
Can you change #4 to reflect the true facts?

[Anne2719]

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. Scott was stopped not far from the border wearing a different hair color from his natural one.

I hadn't realized he changed his hair color two months earlier. And wasn't he carrying a sizeable amount of cash? And packed for a trip? Or am I remembering this incorrectly?

[Beebee]

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. Scott was stopped not far from the border wearing a different hair color from his natural one.

I hadn't realized he changed his hair color two months earlier. And wasn't he carrying a sizeable amount of cash? And packed for a trip? Or am I remembering this incorrectly?

He had $10,000. cash. The defense explained why he had it and backed it up with proof. (bank statements)
Not packed for a trip. His car had a lot of various belongings, from camping gear to dress dress clothes. He was living like a nomad at this time and the contents in his care showed that.

The changes are good, thanks. edit- except, can you also please say Scott was stopped in San Diego not far from his siblings and parents, headed toward a gold course to meet family members....

Because THAT is the truth.

[Anne2719]

He had $10,000. cash. The defense explained why he had it and backed it up with proof. (bank statements)
Not packed for a trip. His car had a lot of various belongings, from camping gear to dress dress clothes. He was living like a nomad at this time and the contents in his care showed that.

The changes are good, thanks. edit- except, can you also please say Scott was stopped in San Diego not far from his siblings and parents, headed toward a gold course to meet family members....

Because THAT is the truth.
If we're listing facts we can agree on, then I'm not sure if everyone will agree that the golf course was his actual destination.

[Anne2719]

PS -- What was the explanation for the $10,000 cash? And does everyone accept that as fact?

[TuscanDreams]

I can't agree that the bodies of Laci and Conner washed ashore. I think Conner was planted on the shore shortly before he was found.

But I can think of a few we can add to the list--

Do we all agree that Brocchini excised info from his report about Laci being seen at the warehouse?

Do we all agree that the MPD failed to properly investigate the Tracy tip?

Do we all agree that a convict told his brother Steve Todd threatened Laci when she interruped a burglary in progress?

Could you provide your source so that this can be considered on a factual basis?

[attorneywan2be]

If we're listing facts we can agree on, then I'm not sure if everyone will agree that the golf course was his actual destination.

I guess we can agree to this:

He was 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border..he was approx. 30 miles away from the border..

[Anne2719]

1. Can we change the word deceased to murdered?
2. 3. 4. agreed
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
Whoops, I missed seeing your #5. Personally, I'm happy with TD's choice of the word "deceased."

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. Scott was stopped not far from the border wearing a different hair color from his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.

[TuscanDreams]

The concrete poured along the side of the driveway matched the concrete in the anchor. Do you have a link for this?

LE never found the mythical submerging anchors despite searching the bay for months. Aiside from the Mythical statement, this appears true. The anchors were not found, correct?

LE never found the bodies despite searching the bay for months. that is factual, I'll agree.

The large diamond earrings that Laci inherited were never found. Not sure, is this a fact that has supportive evidence?

Scott went with Laci to her doctor on 12/23. Can't remember this, I think it's factual.

Laci never told her parents or friends that Scott played around.

If you have a source for the last 1, I think that could be fact based as well.

[Beebee]

Could you provide your source so that this can be considered on a factual basis?

Sure. It is in the Aponte report, which was attached to Geragos' request for a new trial.


Person Interviewed: Lt. Xavier Aponte
Employment: California Department of Corrections
Position: Lieutenant
Address: California Rehabilitation Center, PO Box 1841, Norco, CA 92860
Telephone: (951) 273-2967

Results of Interview

On 12/01/2004, at 9:40 AM, Lt. Xavier Aponte was interviewed in his office at California Rehabilitation Center regarding a recorded conversation between inmate Shawn Tenbrink and his brother Adam Tenbrink that occurred in the month of January 2003. Lt. Aponte was asked if the interview could be taped recorded and he said that he preferred that it not be recorded. Lt. Aponte provided the following information.

Lt. Aponte has been employed by the State of California, Department of Corrections for 18 years. From April 26, 1999 until February 2003, he was assigned to the Investigations Unit at California Rehabilitation Center. On February 18, 2003 he had a job change to Watch Commander.

California Rehab Center records inmate telephone calls to outside parties via the Inmate Monitoring and Recording System abbreviated IMARS. Inmates are allowed to place one (1) collect call per day for 15 minutes to outside parties. When the call is placed and connected a recording comes on at the beginning advising the party called that call is an inmate at a California Correctional Facility and that the call is monitored (recorded). The IMARS tapes used to be recycled within 30-60 days when the system was originally installed because the tapes were expensive and the budget limited. With an expanded budget, more tapes were purchased so that recordings could be kept one (1) year. Sometime after January 2003, the IMARS was changed to a new system whereby it became easier to retrieve recorded messages over a longer period of time. The old system was basically just a recording system and if the tape was recycled or lost then the recorded conversation was permanently lost. On the new system, it is possible to retrieve the recorded conversation from a company back East.

Lt. Aponte first became aware of Shawn Tenbrink talking about Laci Peterson within a couple weeks of her missing. Shawn was talking about Laci missing while he was out in his housing unit. A housing staff person left a message on Lt. Aponte’s voice mail and he immediately called the Modesto Police Department Hotline. He called a second time within the same week because he did not receive a call back from his first telephone call. Lt. Aponte said it was at least a week before anyone got back to him. Lt. Aponte said a detective called him back and arrangements were made for the detective to interview Shawn Tenbrink. Lt. Aponte believes that it was after he spoke to the detective that he listened to the recorded conversation between Shawn Tenbrink and his brother Adam Tenbrink. To the best of his recollection, Adam Tenbrink talked to Shawn Tenbrink about Laci Peterson missing and mentioned that that Laci happened to walk up while Steven Todd was doing the burglary and Todd made some kind of threat to Laci.

Lt. Aponte did not recall the name of the detective, however when asked about the names Craig Grogan, Al Brocchini, Mark Smith and Owens, Lt. Aponte said Grogan sounded familiar. Lt. Aponte said he recalls the names (black out… looks like two names) and Steve Todd from the recorded telephone conversation. The telephone call lasted about 3-4 minutes.

The detective from MPD came down to California Rehabilitation Center and interviewed (blacked out) within the first couple of weeks from his first call to the MPD hotline. Lt. Aponte did not recall the date of the interview. When Shawn Tenbrink walked into Lt. Aponte’s office for the interview he appeared scared. In retrospect, Lt. Aponte does not know if it was the environment Shawn was in that made him afraid or something else. By environment, Lt. Aponte was referring to Shawn being interviewed by the police in his office. Lt. Aponte specifically recalls Shawn denying having a conversation with his brother Adam and denying knowing Steve Todd. The detectives asked if there was anyway in which Shawn Tenbrink’s activities could be monitored. Lt. Aponte said they monitored his phone calls and mail more closely.

Lt. Aponte said that to his recollection the MPD detective listened to the recorded telephone conversation. Lt. Aponte is 99% positive he made a separate recording onto a cassette tape of the telephone conversation between Shawn and Adam. He did this thinking it would be important at some date. Lt. Aponte does not recall if the detective took a copy of the tape or at a later date received a copy of the taped telephone conversation. Lt. Aponte said that at the time this occurred, the investigations unit was in the old Administration Building. After Lt. Aponte left the Investigative Unit, the Administration Building was moved from a 10,000 square foot area to occupy a 3000 square foot area. In the process it has been difficult at times to locate things. Lt. Aponte said he kept a spiral notebook of calls he received which would have indicated the call from the detective, however he does not know what happened to it in the move.

Immediately following the interview with the MPD detective, Shawn went back to his housing unti and called his mother’s place to get in touch with Adam. His brother wasn’t home so Shawn talked to his mother. Lt. Aponte’s recollection of the recorded telephone call was that Shawn told his mother to tell Adam that the police just interviewed him and he was to keep his mouth shut because he doesn’t know who he is dealing with. Lt. Aponte said based on Shawn’s conversation with his mother it did not seem that Steve Todd, Shawn and Adam were friends. The telephone call lasted about 3-4 minutes about the same amount of time as when Shawn called Adam. Lt. Aponte said Shawn had little or no respect for his mother based on listening to the recorded telephone conversation.

Lt. Aponte stated this was the first time he came across Shawn Tenbrink and said Shawn kept to himself. Shawn did not appear to be a problem at Norco. Lt. Aponte said Shawn Tenbrink’s central file possibly could be accessed through CDC Legal Affairs.

[TuscanDreams]

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. Scott was stopped not far from the border wearing a different hair color from his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search
6. Scott was 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border..he was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.

That is a start! I think Wudge's statements in the above post may be factual, I'm checking them out. Does anyone have info on whether The concrete poured along the side of the driveway matched the concrete in the anchor. And were those anchors ever located? Laci's diamond ring wasn't found was it?

[attorneywan2be]

Whoops, I missed seeing your #5. Personally, I'm happy with TD's choice of the word "deceased."

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. Scott was stopped not far from the border wearing a different hair color from his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.

#4 ..I don't agree with #4...the way it is worded..

He was 200 yards from the golf course and 30 miles away from the border and heading north away from the border..his parents live in that area..so it is natural for him to be in a city close to the border...

[attorneywan2be]

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. Scott was stopped not far from the border wearing a different hair color from his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search
6. Scott was 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border..he was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.

That is a start! I think Wudge's statements in the above post may be factual, I'm checking them out. Does anyone have info on whether The concrete poured along the side of the driveway matched the concrete in the anchor. And were those anchors ever located? Laci's diamond ring wasn't found was it?

# 6 is about where Scott was stopped/arrested ..so it replaces #4..

[Beebee]

PS -- What was the explanation for the $10,000 cash? And does everyone accept that as fact?

When Scott was arrested he had over $14,000 cash with him. Following is the series of events that lead to Scott having so much cash with him. This was testified to in court and bank records confirm it to be true. Most of these exhibits were not made public because they contain personal banking information.

Scott decided to sell his new Dodge pick up to his brother, John
Scott's mom, Jackie, was going to loan John the money to buy out Scott. John was then going to take over the payments.
On April 8, 2003, Jackie went to Bank of America to withdraw $10,000 from an old account she rarely used. She did not know her account number, so she gave them her social security number to look it up. Unbeknownst to Jackie, she was listed on Scott and Laci's checking account as well. (Jackie had opened that account with Scott in 1991. Scott added Laci when they were married and never removed his mother.) The bank gave Jackie $10,000 from Scott's checking account. The withdrawal receipt was entered as Exhibit D8Y1.
Jackie paid Scott $8000 cash for his equity in the Dodge pick up. She paid him cash so he could better negotiate while shopping for a car.
On April 12, 2003, Scott purchased a Mercedes from Michael Griffin. He paid him with 36 $100 bills. Scott had $4400 left of the $8000 his mother had given him.
Scott discovers the $10,000 withdrawal from his bank account. He sees the withdrawal ticket signed by his mom and calls her.
Jackie then goes to Washington Mutual on April 17th and withdraws $10,000 cash out of her account. She gives the money to Scott that day to replace the money she took out of his account. She paid him in cash so that the bank would not put a hold on the funds. Scott now has roughly $14,400 in cash.
Scott is arrested the morning of April 18th . He had yet to deposit the money his mother had given him the day before.
Scott also had some “foreign currency” with him when he was arrested. The 2 bills were photographed with other items and entered as People's Exhibit 293-29. One bill is worth 50 pesos and the other is worth 20 pesos. This is roughly worth $6.40 US. This is not an unreasonable amount of pocket change for someone who had recently returned from Mexico. This exhibit is sealed due to a personal check shown in the photo.

http://www.scottpetersonappeal.org/Aug06FF.html

[Anne2719]

#4 ..I don't agree with #4...the way it is worded..

He was 200 yards from the golf course and 30 miles away from the border and heading north away from the border..his parents live in that area..so it is natural for him to be in a city close to the border...
How about this?

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. When Scott was arrested, he was wearing a different hair color from his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border..he was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.

[Anne2719]

Do we know why he changed his hair color, by the way? Did he have a reasonable explanation?

I think we also know that Scott had taken at least one trip across the border to Mexico without fleeing. Can I make that an item on the list?

[Hey Paula]

Do we know why he changed his hair color, by the way? Did he have a reasonable explanation?

I think we also know that Scott had taken at least one trip across the border to Mexico without fleeing. Can I make that an item on the list?

Scott claimed he swam in his friend's swimming pool and it lightened his hair.

[Anne2719]

Scott claimed he swam in his friend's swimming pool and it lightened his hair.
Wow. His friend really should check his pH level and maybe cut down on the chlorine.

[Beebee]

Do we know why he changed his hair color, by the way? Did he have a reasonable explanation?

I think we also know that Scott had taken at least one trip across the border to Mexico without fleeing. Can I make that an item on the list?


Scott's appearance changed between December 24, 2002 and April 18, 2003. He'd lost over 20 pounds, grown a goatee and his hair was lighter. None of these changes took place overnight, or made him unrecognizable. Scott's picture had been plastered all over the media, and slow motion video of him was being shown on TV with creepy music in the back ground. Scott had become a recognizable figure. The goatee and hair color may have helped Scott avoid being recognized by media or someone on the street, but he was not trying to use these changes to hide from the police. You can see by the photos below that Detective Grogan had seen Scott outside his home on February 18th looking almost exactly how he did on the day of his arrest.

pics taken in Feb. and at arrest shown at link

http://www.scottpetersonappeal.org/Aug06FF.html

Scott had gone to Mexico for work and returned.

[Hey Paula]

Wow. His friend really should check his pH level and maybe cut down on the chlorine.

LOL! It wasn't true.

He had, in fact, dyed it!

[Beebee]

Scott claimed he swam in his friend's swimming pool and it lightened his hair.

Hi Paula,

Was that in testimony? I can't remember.
Either way, police knew Scott had changed his appearance for months. He obviously didn't do it to hide from them. He was sick of being recognized and scorned, and I don't blame him.

[Hey Paula]

PS -- What was the explanation for the $10,000 cash? And does everyone accept that as fact?

Scott had nearly $15,000 when he was arrested. His mother, Jackie Peterson, told a convoluted tale about cars being sold and transferred bank funds which the jury didn't find credible.

IMO

[Beebee]

Wow. His friend really should check his pH level and maybe cut down on the chlorine.

LOL.

It was done is a salon.

Unless a guy is metro-sexual, they don't like to admit dye jobs, imo.... lol

[Anne2719]

pics taken in Feb. and at arrest shown at link

http://www.scottpetersonappeal.org/Aug06FF.html

Scott had gone to Mexico for work and returned.
The February 18 photo on the left doesn't look like his hair is bleached. Do we have anything else that shows his hair was light two months before his arrest?

[Hey Paula]

Hi Paula,

Was that in testimony? I can't remember.
Either way, police knew Scott had changed his appearance for months. He obviously didn't do it to hide from them. He was sick of being recognized and scorned, and I don't blame him.

Hi BB!

Hair tends to turn greenish blonde colored from the chlorine in the pool, not orange blonde.

I don't recall it being in testimony, but I do recall CTV board discussions and his friend denying the story about his hair being diyed in the pool. I also recall discussion about Scott having had his hair dyed by a beautician.

Viewing different photos of Scott during different stages, following Laci's disappearance, the changes in his appearance were gradual. I believe he settled on the blondish (orange) look, complete with goatee, so that he might look more like his brother, whose license he was using instead of his own.

IMO

[Anne2719]

Hi BB!

Hair tends to turn greenish blonde colored from the chlorine in the pool, not orange blonde.

I don't recall it being in testimony, but I do recall CTV board discussions and his friend denying the story about his hair being diyed in the pool. I also recall discussion about Scott having had his hair dyed by a beautician.

Viewing different photos of Scott during different stages, following Laci's disappearance, the changes in his appearance were gradual. I believe he settled on the blondish (orange) look, complete with goatee, so that he might look more like his brother, whose license he was using instead of his own.

IMO
Do we know for certain he was using his brother's license? Did he have an explanation for that?

Sorry for my ignorance of many of the general-knowledge things. I spent almost no time on the CTV Laci board, and my memory isn't what it used to be, so a lot of the things I did hear in passing are pretty foggy now.

[attorneywan2be]

How about this?

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. When Scott was arrested, he was wearing a different hair color from his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border..he was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.

No, I don't agree..#4

1-Richardson testified that on April 3rd he met Scott and he noticed that Scott's hair color was lighter and had a goatee..that's 15 days before his arrest..so the detectives that were following him, knew about his hair being lighter...the hair color being change didn't occur on the day of the arrest..

With that being said:

2-During the search on February 18, 2003...pictures of Scott were published, he had a lighter color hair then, and he had a goatee..



Scott's picture during February search

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/dream777/Scottpicture1.jpg



Scott's picture during February search


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/dream777/Scottpicture2.jpg



Scott's picture the day he was arrested..


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/dream777/april18arrest.jpg

[Hey Paula]

Do we know for certain he was using his brother's license? Did he have an explanation for that?

Sorry for my ignorance of many of the general-knowledge things. I spent almost no time on the CTV Laci board, and my memory isn't what it used to be, so a lot of the things I did hear in passing are pretty foggy now.

He was definitely using his brother's driver's license. I suspect the explanation Scott might have tried to give was that he had intended to golf at Torrey Pines, where his brother was a member, and perhaps use the license to gain access.

IMO

[Anne2719]

No, I don't agree..#4

1-Richardson testified that on April 3rd he met Scott and he noticed that Scott's hair color was lighter and had a goatee..that's 15 days before his arrest..so the detectives that were following him, knew about his hair being lighter...the hair color being change didn't occur on the day of the arrest..

With that being said:

2-During the search on February 18, 2003...pictures of Scott were published, he had a lighter color hair then, and he had a goatee..



Scott's picture during February search

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/dream777/Scottpicture1.jpg



Scott's picture during February search


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/dream777/Scottpicture2.jpg


[snip]


I had reworded #4, and I don't think any part of it is untrue. When he was arrested, his hair WAS a different color than his natural color. Nothing about when it became that way.

ETA: In the February search pictures above, it doesn't look to me as if his hair is lighter. It looks like a different hair cut that's picking up the light differently. It's possible that it is lighter, but it doesn't look that way to me.

[attorneywan2be]

I had reworded #4, and I don't think any part of it is untrue. When he was arrested, his hair WAS a different color than his natural color. Nothing about when it became that way.

ETA: In the February search pictures above, it doesn't look to me as if his hair is lighter. It looks like a different hair cut that's picking up the light differently. It's possible that it is lighter, but it doesn't look that way to me.


It is not a fact, it is based on people's perception and subjective judgment..he had a different color than his natural color on April 3rd as someone testified...

I thought we are listing facts that everyone agrees on..that could not be disputed...after all, the thread is called "common ground"...

[Anne2719]

It is not a fact, it is based on people's perception and subjective judgment..he had a different color than his natural color on April 3rd as someone testified...

I thought we are listing facts that everyone agrees on..that could not be disputed...after all, the thread is called "common ground"...
I'm confused. The hair color he had on the day of his arrest . . . you're saying that was his natural color?

[attorneywan2be]

I would like to add..

Compare the color of his mustache and goatee as to February vs April..

[attorneywan2be]

I'm confused. The hair color he had on the day of his arrest . . . you're saying that was his natural color?

It implies that he had this new color on the day of his arrest..we really should stick to facts that are not disputable...facts, that we all agree on.."common ground"..in addition, Richardson testified that his hair was lighter on April 3rd...

[Anne2719]

It implies that he had this new color on the day of his arrest..we really should stick to facts that are not disputable...facts, that we all agree on.."common ground"..in addition, Richardson testified that his hair was lighter on April 3rd...
Sorry, I thought I worded that very carefully, so as to carry no implication.

[attorneywan2be]

Sorry, I thought I worded that very carefully, so as to carry no implication.


Yes, it does carry an implication..by mentioning that he had a different color the day he was arrested implies that it was not that way before his arrest..period!...however, according to Richardson's testimony, he was seen with lighter hair color and goatee on April 3rd, BEFORE his arrest...

[Anne2719]

Yes, it does carry an implication..by mentioning that he had a different color the day he was arrested implies that it was not that way before his arrest..period!...however, according to Richardson's testimony, he was seen with lighter hair color and goatee on April 3rd, BEFORE his arrest...
1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, he had changed his hair color from his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border..he was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.

[cookiewench]

LOL.

It was done is a salon.

Unless a guy is metro-sexual, they don't like to admit dye jobs, imo.... lol

How do you know it was done in a salon? If it was, he should have asked for a refund, because the coloring was terrible and it looked like he had dumped some blonde Clairol on his head without pre-lightening first.

Metrosexuals aside, why do you think he expected anyone to believe that pool story? For cripe's sake...the guy's been swimming in pools all of his life and suddenly his hair decided to change color after ONE DIP in a pool?????

[Anne2719]

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, he had changed his hair color from his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border..he was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.
7. Scott had made at least one trip to Mexico without fleeing.

[attorneywan2be]

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, he had changed his hair color from his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border..he was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.


Initially you said "he was wearing a different color from his natural....now, you're saying he changed his color..it is not a fact that he changed it..for example, it could be lighter because he stayed outdoor a lot ..San Diego is mostly sunny..

how about this:

By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one

[Hey Paula]

8. Scott told Shawn Sibley and Amber Frey that he'd lost his wife, two weeks before Laci disappeared.

[Anne2719]

Initially you said "he was wearing a different color from his natural....now, you're saying he changed his color..it is not a fact that he changed it..for example, it could be lighter because he stayed outdoor a lot ..San Diego is mostly sunny..

how about this:

By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one
I have no problem with your wording. Though I would be shocked to find out that he didn't actively change his hair color either at a salon, as has been suggested, or by himself with Clairol or l'Oreal.

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border..he was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.
7. Scott had made at least one trip to Mexico without fleeing.

[Anne2719]

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border..he was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.
7. Scott had made at least one trip to Mexico without fleeing.
8. Two weeks before Laci disappeared, Scott told Shawn Sibley and Amber Frey that he'd lost his wife.

[attorneywan2be]

I have no problem with your wording. Though I would be shocked to find out that he didn't actively change his hair color either at a salon, as has been suggested, or by himself with Clairol or l'Oreal.

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border..he was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.
7. Scott had made at least one trip to Mexico without fleeing.

Thanks..

You might want to speculate that he changed his hair color, that would be a theory..but we are dealing with facts that were proved in court..we should not list speculations..

Please correct # 6 add the word "arrested" ..Scott was arrested 200 ....etc..etc..

[Anne2719]

Thanks..

You might want to speculate that he changed his hair color, that would be a theory..but we are dealing with facts that were proved in court..we should not list speculations..

Please correct # 6 add the word "arrested" ..Scott was arrested 200 ....etc..etc..
1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was arrested 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border. He was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.
7. Scott had made at least one trip to Mexico without fleeing.
8. Two weeks before Laci disappeared, Scott told Shawn Sibley and Amber Frey that he'd lost his wife.

[attorneywan2be]

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border..he was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.
7. Scott had made at least one trip to Mexico without fleeing.
8. Two weeks before Laci disappeared, Scott told Shawn Sibley and Amber Frey that he'd lost his wife.

Per the medical examiner, Conner was a full term baby, his estimated gestational age 9 months

[attorneywan2be]

Laci's croton watch is still missing to this date..Deanna Renfro pawned a Croton watch one week after Laci's disappearance.

[Hey Paula]

9) Scott Peterson gave conflicting accounts of his whereabouts on 12/24. He told Harvey Kemple (Laci's cousin) and his neighbors Amy Krigbaum and Tera Venable that he'd been golfing, not fishing as he had told others.

[Anne2719]

Per the medical examiner, Conner was a full term baby, his estimated gestational age 9 months
If we add that, should we also say that another expert estimated 33-36 (can't remember exactly) weeks?

[attorneywan2be]

On December 24, 2002, Scott told the detectives the exact location where he went fishing, it was checked out by Brocchini

[Anne2719]

On December 24, 2002, Scott told the detectives the exact location where he went fishing, it was checked out by Brocchini
Sorry, once again I don't remember the information. Brocchini was able to check out and verify that Scott was fishing exactly where he said he was? Or did he verify that he parked where he said he did and left from a certain place?

[attorneywan2be]

If we add that, should we also say that another expert estimated 33-36 (can't remember exactly) weeks?

Dr. Galloway examined different bones of Conner..based on that she estimated his gestational age between 35 weeks and 36 weeks..she adjusted it by a margin of error of 2 weeks plus or minus .. 33 weeks to 38 weeks..

[Anne2719]

Dr. Galloway examined different bones of Conner..based on that she estimated his gestational age between 35 weeks and 36 weeks..she adjusted it by a margin of error of 2 weeks plus or minus .. 33 weeks to 38 weeks..
Since there are differing estimates on the gestational age, then it's probably not a good idea to add it to our common grounds list, don't you agree?

[accordn2me]

Is it not common ground that Laci was murdered?

[Anne2719]

Is it not common ground that Laci was murdered?
Of course. But isn't it better to keep a "common grounds" list as unemotional as possible?

[attorneywan2be]

Sorry, once again I don't remember the information. Brocchini was able to check out and verify that Scott was fishing exactly where he said he was? Or did he verify that he parked where he said he did and left from a certain place?



Allen Brocchini: Said he drove out of the Marina, went north for two miles until he came to a small island. He saw there was a "No Landing" sign on the island, there was a lot of debris or trash around the shore of the island. There were some broken piers.

Rick Distaso: And in your -- when you were at this portion of the San Francisco Bay, does that describe Brooks Island?

Allen Brocchini: Yes, it does.

[One2Snoop]

Dr. Galloway examined different bones of Conner..based on that she estimated his gestational age between 35 weeks and 36 weeks..she adjusted it by a margin of error of 2 weeks plus or minus .. 33 weeks to 38 weeks..

So its not a proven fact as you say that Conner was "Per the medical examiner, Conner was a full term baby, his estimated gestational age 9 months"

[Anne2719]

Allen Brocchini: Said he drove out of the Marina, went north for two miles until he came to a small island. He saw there was a "No Landing" sign on the island, there was a lot of debris or trash around the shore of the island. There were some broken piers.

Rick Distaso: And in your -- when you were at this portion of the San Francisco Bay, does that describe Brooks Island?

Allen Brocchini: Yes, it does.
Well, Scott also described Paris accurately, and that's not proof he was actually there.

[accordn2me]

Of course. But isn't it better to keep a "common grounds" list as unemotional as possible?:chicken:

My vote would be, keep it real.

1. Laci and Conner were murdered.

or

1. Conner's death was a result of Laci being murdered.

[attorneywan2be]

So its not a proven fact as you say that Conner was "Per the medical examiner, Conner was a full term baby, his estimated gestational age 9 months"

What do you mean?

The medical examiner testified that he estimated his age to be 9 months and that he considered Conner a full term baby...isn't that a fact? didn't he testify to that?

[One2Snoop]

Dr. Galloway examined different bones of Conner..based on that she estimated his gestational age between 35 weeks and 36 weeks..she adjusted it by a margin of error of 2 weeks plus or minus .. 33 weeks to 38 weeks..

You posted the above that said another Dr. estimated Conner's age at 33-38 weeks. Its not a proven fact that Conner was a full term baby.

[accordn2me]

What do you mean?

The medical examiner testified that he estimated his age to be 9 months and that he considered Conner a full term baby...isn't that a fact? didn't he testify to that?
please post a snip of testimony and a link

[Anne2719]

What do you mean?

The medical examiner testified that he estimated his age to be 9 months and that he considered Conner a full term baby...isn't that a fact? didn't he testify to that?
I don't think it belongs on a common grounds list, since there is disagreement over what the actual gestational age was. But that's just my opinion.

[attorneywan2be]

Well, Scott also described Paris accurately, and that's not proof he was actually there.

I can't believe you said that..he talked about famous monuments in Paris..such as Eiffel tower..are you comparing that to his description of the island, including a no Landing sign..trash..broken bridges..etc..anyhow, the prosecution accepted it as a fact that he went to Brooks Island..they built their whole case about the bodies washing ashore from that area...and you want to dispute it..? per the evidence in this case, it is a fact..!

[Anne2719]

I can't believe you said that..he talked about famous monuments in Paris..such as Eiffel tower..are you comparing that to his description of the island, including a no Landing sign..trash..broken bridges..etc..anyhow, the prosecution accepted it as a fact that he went to Brooks Island..they built their whole case about the bodies washing ashore from that area...and you want to dispute it..? per the evidence in this case, it is a fact..!
I don't dispute it. As I said, my knowledge of the case is very spotty. I'm just wondering if a description of someplace, which could've been obtained from a photograph, is proof he actually was there. But if the prosecution accepted it, that's good enough for me.

[cookiewench]

it is not a fact that he changed it..for example, it could be lighter because he stayed outdoor a lot ..San Diego is mostly sunny..
[/B]

I know I should probably just let this one pass, but I can't. It's just not logical. We've all seen tons of photos of Scott at different ages, and his hair was never orange like it was when he got arrested.

At 30 years old, suddenly his hair got sunbleached in February? Not to even mention that he was staying with Anne and didn't leave the house much.

[attorneywan2be]

I know I should probably just let this one pass, but I can't. It's just not logical. We've all seen tons of photos of Scott at different ages, and his hair was never orange like it was when he got arrested.

At 30 years old, suddenly his hair got sunbleached in February? Not to even mention that he was staying with Anne and didn't leave the house much.

We are listing facts ..not speculations..

Is it a fact that he changed his hair color? no

Is it a speculation that he changed his hair color? yes

[postergirl]

No, I don't agree..#4

1-Richardson testified that on April 3rd he met Scott and he noticed that Scott's hair color was lighter and had a goatee..that's 15 days before his arrest..so the detectives that were following him, knew about his hair being lighter...the hair color being change didn't occur on the day of the arrest..

With that being said:

2-During the search on February 18, 2003...pictures of Scott were published, he had a lighter color hair then, and he had a goatee..



Scott's picture during February search

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/dream777/Scottpicture1.jpg



Scott's picture during February search


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/dream777/Scottpicture2.jpg



Scott's picture the day he was arrested..


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i231/dream777/april18arrest.jpg


Above you voice a disagreement that Scott's hair was lighter upon his arrest. Then you state references to someone allegedly saying that they noticed his hair being lighter before his arrest. Then you post a picture that nobody in the free world has seen, where his hair is again dark brown, even though we have all seen the blond pics and videos from the day of his arrest.

What the heck kinda roller coaster are you on?

[Anne2719]

If I've been following this correctly, attorneywan2be agrees that his hair was lighter when he was arrested, but is saying that it didn't become that way just before his arrest.

[attorneywan2be]

please post a snip of testimony and a link

Source: trial transcripts

Mark Geragos: Okay. Now, the, one of the other things that you mentioned was, let's see, that you figured that there would be other tests to determine, you had estimated Conner as nine months, or as, a full-term infant, correct?
Brian Peterson: Correct.Mark Geragos: Okay. And when he first came in and you saw him just alone, you had estimated him as actually having been, what, a nine month fetus? Or as actually as a full-term infant? Or was there no difference for you?
Brian Peterson: Well, what's "term"? 280 days. So depending on how one measures, and based, again, only on the crude measurement that I could do, nine months and/or term.

[accordn2me]

Above you voice a disagreement that Scott's hair was lighter upon his arrest. Then you state references to someone allegedly saying that they noticed his hair being lighter before his arrest. Then you post a picture that nobody in the free world has seen, where his hair is again dark brown, even though we have all seen the blond pics and videos from the day of his arrest.

What the heck kinda roller coaster are you on?
:lol:

Are you talking about that last picture? When I saw that, first thought...."Is that supposed to be Scott?":D

Aloha, postergirl :rose:

[Anne2719]

Source: trial transcripts

Mark Geragos: Okay. Now, the, one of the other things that you mentioned was, let's see, that you figured that there would be other tests to determine, you had estimated Conner as nine months, or as, a full-term infant, correct?
Brian Peterson: Correct.Mark Geragos: Okay. And when he first came in and you saw him just alone, you had estimated him as actually having been, what, a nine month fetus? Or as actually as a full-term infant? Or was there no difference for you?
Brian Peterson: Well, what's "term"? 280 days. So depending on how one measures, and based, again, only on the crude measurement that I could do, nine months and/or term.
If the point is to say that Laci had given birth prior to her death, I don't think you'll find a common ground here. Can we give up on the gestational age?

[postergirl]

And as a Native Californian and invererate hair-color afficionado, I must say that pool chlorine would not be able to lighten his hair to that extent unless it was so invasive that he also recieved severe chemical burns. That is Loreal #9. Bet me.

[attorneywan2be]

Above you voice a disagreement that Scott's hair was lighter upon his arrest. Then you state references to someone allegedly saying that they noticed his hair being lighter before his arrest. Then you post a picture that nobody in the free world has seen, where his hair is again dark brown, even though we have all seen the blond pics and videos from the day of his arrest.

What the heck kinda roller coaster are you on?

You don't understand..please read all the posts in question before jumping to conclusion...

Thank you

[cookiewench]

We are listing facts ..not speculations..

Is it a fact that he changed his hair color? no

Is it a speculation that he changed his hair color? yes

I disagree.

I believe that it is a definite fact that Scott intentionally artificially colored his hair overnight. If "he" didn't do it, someone else did - not the sun, not the pool, not the Clairol fairy.

[accordn2me]

GERAGOS: Okay. And you estimated based upon, I guess when you measured the crown-rump length, that gave you a specific number. What was that number, do you remember?

PETERSON: The crown-rump length, from my report here, was 32 centimeters.

GERAGOS: How many inches is that?

PETERSON: I'm sorry?

GERAGOS: How much inches does that translate into?

PETERSON: About 15.

GERAGOS: Closer to 17?

PETERSON: Seventeen. There's 2.54 centimeters per inch, but I wasn't a math major.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Apparently, neither was Geragos (a math major).

32 centimeters = 12.598425 inches

[postergirl]

You don't understand..please read all the posts in question before jumping to conclusion...

Thank you

I've read the posts and invite you to contradict me specifically.

Thank you.

[One2Snoop]

I don't think it belongs on a common grounds list, since there is disagreement over what the actual gestational age was. But that's just my opinion.

Exactly - Thank you.

[Anne2719]

GERAGOS: Okay. And you estimated based upon, I guess when you measured the crown-rump length, that gave you a specific number. What was that number, do you remember?

PETERSON: The crown-rump length, from my report here, was 32 centimeters.

GERAGOS: How many inches is that?

PETERSON: I'm sorry?

GERAGOS: How much inches does that translate into?

PETERSON: About 15.

GERAGOS: Closer to 17?

PETERSON: Seventeen. There's 2.54 centimeters per inch, but I wasn't a math major.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Apparently, neither was Geragos (a math major).

32 centimeters = 12.598425 inches
Sounds like the kind of bad math I would do.

So he estimated full term based on the length of the body? What other things did he factor in? Just curious.

[thinkaboutit]

Scott is non violent. He has no history of violence whatsoever.

Scott and Laci were never known to argue.

The Rochas themselves said Scott would never have harmed Laci.

There is no crime scene.

There is no place of death.

There is no time of death.

There is no cause of death.

There is no murder weapon.

There is no eyewitness.

There is no forensic evidence that supports Scott murdering Laci.

There is no clear and unyielding evidence of premeditation.

The M.E., Dr. Peterson testified Connor was full term.

The M.E.’s medical consultant, Dr. Alison Galloway, testified that the gestational age for Connor ranged from 33 months minimum to 38 weeks maximum.

There is no clear motive. Judge Delucchi said that he “didn't see any pre-offense statement that indicates any intent, plan, motive or design that he may have uttered.” This includes Scott saying that he had “lost” his wife. Thus, the Court (the 13th juror) did not find proof of premeditation from any of Scott’s statements. And Greg Bertalis said the jury did not know what Scott’s motive was .

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on Scott’s truck bed or inside the Greenlee tool box.

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent in the boat.

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on the boat cover.

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on the umbrellas that were in the back of Scott’s truck.

A dog handler, Ron Seitz, testified that working off scent from Laci’s pink slipper, his dog, TJ, did not find Laci’s scent at the marina.

No cadaver dog ever found a probative death scent, not one.

The night before, Scott asked Amy over for pizza.

The night before, Scott told Amy he would pick up her present at Vella Farms after 12:00AM on Xmas Eve.

Laci was found wearing different pants from those she wore the previous night.

Laci was found wearing a wire bra.

Laci’s walking shoes were never found.

Laci’s large diamond ear rings were never found.

Laci’s curling iron had been taken out of her drawer.

Per the FBI’s Caucasian data base, the odds of the hair in the pliers being Laci’s hair are 112-1 against that possibility.

Scott allegedly loading Laci’s body into the truck in broad daylight works against a theory of long-planned premeditation.

The State’s theory of Laci’s body being submerged in the full daylight of high noon works heavily against premeditation, period. Similarly, it works against the theory that Scott murdered Laci. [Note: Nancy Grace agrees and would have found Scott to be "not guilty" based on the alleged mid-day submerging.]

The duct tape found on Laci’s body did not match any duct tape that Scott owned or used.

The bodies were found at the location of Scott’s alibi. Therefore, this was a statement against self-interest (exculpatory evidence) of immense proportion.

The prior owner of the boat, Bruce Peterson, testified that he sent in paperwork that established the boat was now recorded to Scott Peterson at his Covena address.

Detective Grogan testified that any DMV notice of transfer tax due on the boat would have been mailed to Scott’s Covena address.

Scott is a lifelong fisherman and bought a fishing license.

As a fisherman would do, Scott bought lures, including a lure for stripers.

As a fisherman would do, Scott bought a new fishing rod.

As a fisherman would do, Scott researched the tides.

As a fisherman would do, Scott researched fishing camps.

Scott paid cash for the boat at the request of the boat’s owner.

Scott left the anchor behind at the request of the owner. He needed to have an anchor and, thus, Scott made a concrete anchor for the boat.

There was nothing sinister in the transaction of the purchase of the boat. Bruce Peterson knew about the boat, and the State recorded the boat to Scott at his home address, and Scott immediately told LE about the boat. Moreover, Distaso never claimed Scott did not register the boat, ever.

No testimony was given establishing that the 2 and ½ quart paint bucket (from RG Corporation) used by Scott for the anchor mold fit the cement circles on the deck of the trailer.

Regarding the twine defying the law of physics and working itself over Connor’s head, Dr Wecht responded to a question from Greta on 10-27-04 and said: “You talk about something coming over the head, the body's floating in the water? You couldn't do that in a million years.”

Per Dr. Wecht, Connor’s head measured 28 centimeters in circumference. His neck measured 20 centimeters in circumference. The twice-knotted twine around Connor’s neck measured (approx.) 23 ½ centimeters in circumference.

The ME, Dr. Brian Peterson, testified that heavy, round and oval mineralized stones were found on the threads of Laci’s pant legs.

Mineralized stones can not form underwater. For mineralized stones to form, exposure to the sun and/or air is needed. Thus, Laci’s body would have needed to be exposed to a large number of wet/dry cycles to form heavy the stones. A marsh would provide such a setting.

The Hoffman Marsh is located right between where Connor’s body was found and where Laci’s body was found.

The Hoffman Marsh is easily accessible without a boat. A public parking lot is immediately adjacent to it.

Only one anchor was found. The one Scott found in his boat and that Scott freely admitted making.

The water pitcher was not the mold for Scott’s anchor as alleged/implied by Detectives Brocchini and Hendee. A petrographer, Robert O’Neill, testified that he told Detective Grogan ”there is no way that that pitcher is the mold for the concrete anchor.”

Any person standing on the marina’s boat dock would have been able to look down and into Scott’s small boat to see Laci’s body.

Dr. Cheng testified that the tidal conditions that would have sent Conner’s body north toward the inner Richmond Harbor could not explain Laci Peterson’s body being found far further south.

Connor’s body made it over the rock jetty uninjured.
The boat was too small to “safely” dump a 150lb+ body that allegedly also had submerging anchors tied to it.

There was no testimony of unaccounted for rebars (used as a handle for Scott’s single anchor).

Detective Hendee knowingly gave false testimony that the water pitcher was the mold for Scott’s anchor. His lie was caught by Geragos, and he was impeached.

With Detective Brocchini as the set-up man and Detective Hendee as his sworn witness, the prosecutor, David Harris, conspired to perpetrate a knowing fraud upon the Court and the jury; i.e., that the water pitcher was the mold for Scott’s anchor.

Detective Brocchini was impeached over and over as regards: the infamous “meringue”, the multiplying hair, the made-up duct tape, and excising from his notes that Laci was at the warehouse.

A dog handler, Eloise Anderson, was severely impeached in the same vein as another dog handler, Cindee Valentine, was impeached in a pre-trial hearing (her dog was Merlin). Also impeached was Eloise Anderson’s theory that her dog, Trimble, trailed Laci’s scent for 90 miles and, working off of the eyeglass case, found Laci’s scent at the marina.

Judge Delucchi gave the jury instruction 2.21 (witness willfully false). Thus, the jury was permitted to totally disregard the testimony of: Detective Brocchini, Detective Hendee, Eloise Anderson et al.

I'm bumping this post! Excellent, very impressive post Wudge (and may I note this is one of two excellent posts by Wudge on this subject). What is really disappointing is that none of these easily verifiable facts (from the trial testimony) have been added to the "official" list. Not only are most of these easily verifiable from the testimony - many are common knowledge among both G's and NG's - but none have been added to the list.

[Anne2719]

I know I should probably just let this one pass, but I can't. It's just not logical. We've all seen tons of photos of Scott at different ages, and his hair was never orange like it was when he got arrested.

At 30 years old, suddenly his hair got sunbleached in February? Not to even mention that he was staying with Anne and didn't leave the house much.
That's his sister who wrote a book saying he was guilty, right? Did anyone read that book? Did she have anything to say about the hair color?

[One2Snoop]

I'm bumping this post! Excellent, very impressive post Wudge (and may I note this is one of two excellent posts by Wudge on this subject). What is really disappointing is that none of these easily verifiable facts (from the trial testimony) have been added to the "official" list. Not only are most of these easily verifiable from the testimony - many are common knowledge among both G's and NG's - but none have been added to the list.

Maybe we just didn't get there yet - :rolleyes: and I don't agree with all those things that Wudge posted. So we will need to pick thru them one by one before they can be added to the list.

[Anne2719]

I'm bumping this post! Excellent, very impressive post Wudge (and may I note this is one of two excellent posts by Wudge on this subject). What is really disappointing is that none of these easily verifiable facts (from the trial testimony) have been added to the "official" list. Not only are most of these easily verifiable from the testimony - many are common knowledge among both G's and NG's - but none have been added to the list.
My suggestion is that items should be added one by one, as we've been doing. I was planning to go back to Wudge's list and add from that. It's counterproductive to add a list that long all at once, since I think each item that's already on the list has been hashed over for wording.

[Anne2719]

From Wudge's list:

The duct tape found on Laci’s body did not match any duct tape that Scott owned or used.

Any discussion of this, or can we add it to the list?

[postergirl]

I'm bumping this post! Excellent, very impressive post Wudge (and may I note this is one of two excellent posts by Wudge on this subject). What is really disappointing is that none of these easily verifiable facts (from the trial testimony) have been added to the "official" list. Not only are most of these easily verifiable from the testimony - many are common knowledge among both G's and NG's - but none have been added to the list.


In light of your statement, can you elaborate on these facts that by your estimation should be agreed upon by G's and NG's? I think that would be a tremendous help with regard to getting this thread on the track that the original poster intended.

[accordn2me]

Sounds like the kind of bad math I would do.

So he estimated full term based on the length of the body? What other things did he factor in? Just curious.GERAGOS: Right. Okay. Now, specifically, in addition to that, the, you also called in a Dr. Galloway; is that correct?

PETERSON: I didn't personally, but the office did.

GERAGOS: Okay. And she came to some conclusions about, and she was brought in as an anthro, forensic anthropologist?

PETERSON: As a specialist in bones and bone measurements, that's correct.

<SNIP>


GERAGOS: Okay. The lowest on any of these charts that she compared the baby, the measurements to, the absolute youngest that she has, and it's only on one, two, three, four of the measurements, is 34 weeks, correct?

PETERSON: That's correct.

GERAGOS: And the average is roughly 36 to 38 weeks; is it not?

PETERSON: Let me see. She, she states a number of age ranges in her report, and it looks to me that her ultimate conclusion is listed as 33 to 38 weeks. I'm not sure if she drew an arithmetic average, or anything.

GERAGOS: Okay. There's no measurement that she compares to here on her appendix where the baby's age was 33 weeks, is there?

PETERSON: Not in this table. She refers to in her report, though, with different racial groups.

GERAGOS: Okay. Specifically there's a number, looks like one, two, three, four, five, six, six of the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, six of the eleven measurements go as high as 38 or 40 weeks; isn't that correct?

PETERSON: They do.

http://www.scottisinnocent.com/Trial/Trial/Guilt/Pwitnesses/Petersonbrian.htm#cross

and my point about the baby being full-term....

a baby who is only 12.598425 inches is an awfully small baby, wouldn't you say?

[postergirl]

GERAGOS: Right. Okay. Now, specifically, in addition to that, the, you also called in a Dr. Galloway; is that correct?

PETERSON: I didn't personally, but the office did.

GERAGOS: Okay. And she came to some conclusions about, and she was brought in as an anthro, forensic anthropologist?

PETERSON: As a specialist in bones and bone measurements, that's correct.

<SNIP>


GERAGOS: Okay. The lowest on any of these charts that she compared the baby, the measurements to, the absolute youngest that she has, and it's only on one, two, three, four of the measurements, is 34 weeks, correct?

PETERSON: That's correct.

GERAGOS: And the average is roughly 36 to 38 weeks; is it not?

PETERSON: Let me see. She, she states a number of age ranges in her report, and it looks to me that her ultimate conclusion is listed as 33 to 38 weeks. I'm not sure if she drew an arithmetic average, or anything.

GERAGOS: Okay. There's no measurement that she compares to here on her appendix where the baby's age was 33 weeks, is there?

PETERSON: Not in this table. She refers to in her report, though, with different racial groups.

GERAGOS: Okay. Specifically there's a number, looks like one, two, three, four, five, six, six of the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, six of the eleven measurements go as high as 38 or 40 weeks; isn't that correct?

PETERSON: They do.

http://www.scottisinnocent.com/Trial/Trial/Guilt/Pwitnesses/Petersonbrian.htm#cross

and my point about the baby being full-term....

a baby who is only 12.598425 inches is an awfully small baby, wouldn't you say?


33 to 38 weeks. That gestation is laughable with regards to proving any timeline of Laci's or the baby's death. Either way.

[Anne2719]

GERAGOS: Right. Okay. Now, specifically, in addition to that, the, you also called in a Dr. Galloway; is that correct?

PETERSON: I didn't personally, but the office did.

GERAGOS: Okay. And she came to some conclusions about, and she was brought in as an anthro, forensic anthropologist?

PETERSON: As a specialist in bones and bone measurements, that's correct.

<SNIP>


GERAGOS: Okay. The lowest on any of these charts that she compared the baby, the measurements to, the absolute youngest that she has, and it's only on one, two, three, four of the measurements, is 34 weeks, correct?

PETERSON: That's correct.

GERAGOS: And the average is roughly 36 to 38 weeks; is it not?

PETERSON: Let me see. She, she states a number of age ranges in her report, and it looks to me that her ultimate conclusion is listed as 33 to 38 weeks. I'm not sure if she drew an arithmetic average, or anything.

GERAGOS: Okay. There's no measurement that she compares to here on her appendix where the baby's age was 33 weeks, is there?

PETERSON: Not in this table. She refers to in her report, though, with different racial groups.

GERAGOS: Okay. Specifically there's a number, looks like one, two, three, four, five, six, six of the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, six of the eleven measurements go as high as 38 or 40 weeks; isn't that correct?

PETERSON: They do.

http://www.scottisinnocent.com/Trial/Trial/Guilt/Pwitnesses/Petersonbrian.htm#cross

and my point about the baby being full-term....

a baby who is only 12.598425 inches is an awfully small baby, wouldn't you say?
I was assuming that measurement doesn't include the legs since they said "rump to crown."

[One2Snoop]

GERAGOS: Right. Okay. Now, specifically, in addition to that, the, you also called in a Dr. Galloway; is that correct?

PETERSON: I didn't personally, but the office did.

GERAGOS: Okay. And she came to some conclusions about, and she was brought in as an anthro, forensic anthropologist?

PETERSON: As a specialist in bones and bone measurements, that's correct.

<SNIP>


GERAGOS: Okay. The lowest on any of these charts that she compared the baby, the measurements to, the absolute youngest that she has, and it's only on one, two, three, four of the measurements, is 34 weeks, correct?

PETERSON: That's correct.

GERAGOS: And the average is roughly 36 to 38 weeks; is it not?

PETERSON: Let me see. She, she states a number of age ranges in her report, and it looks to me that her ultimate conclusion is listed as 33 to 38 weeks. I'm not sure if she drew an arithmetic average, or anything.

GERAGOS: Okay. There's no measurement that she compares to here on her appendix where the baby's age was 33 weeks, is there?

PETERSON: Not in this table. She refers to in her report, though, with different racial groups.

GERAGOS: Okay. Specifically there's a number, looks like one, two, three, four, five, six, six of the one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, six of the eleven measurements go as high as 38 or 40 weeks; isn't that correct?

PETERSON: They do.

http://www.scottisinnocent.com/Trial/Trial/Guilt/Pwitnesses/Petersonbrian.htm#cross

and my point about the baby being full-term....

a baby who is only 12.598425 inches is an awfully small baby, wouldn't you say?

I would say so - good point.

[cookiewench]

That's his sister who wrote a book saying he was guilty, right? Did anyone read that book? Did she have anything to say about the hair color?

Yes. Anne Bird said that Scott appeared one day with orange hair and beard, and said it had happened in a pool, but, IIRC, it was not the Richardson's pool, but one at a ski resort he went to.

[accordn2me]

From Wudge's list:

The duct tape found on Laci’s body did not match any duct tape that Scott owned or used.

Any discussion of this, or can we add it to the list?
SO!?

and...

what's that prove/disprove

[Anne2719]

SO!?

and...

what's that prove/disprove
I didn't think it had to prove or disprove anything. It was the first item on that list that I found that I thought we might all be able to agree with.

[accordn2me]

I was assuming that measurement doesn't include the legs since they said "rump to crown.":punch:

PETERSON: I did. The two measurements that we performed are called crown-rump length and crown-heel length. The crown is just the top of the head. Crown-heel is pretty self-explanatory. Crown-rump is from the top of the head to the buttocks. Of course, I was limited in this case by the fact the body was so soft and it was difficult to get an accurate measurement. I knew that at the time. You do what you can do, but I knew that down the line there would likely be more accurate measurements possible.

[postergirl]

Yes. Anne Bird said that Scott appeared one day with orange hair and beard, and said it had happened in a pool, but, IIRC, it was not the Richardson's pool, but one at a ski resort he went to.

Look. I don't want to presume that I understand your agenda if you have one. I don't even have one myself, but I promise you that the hair color was not even possible from pool usage.

Besides that fact, was it ever established that this was a heated pool?

[accordn2me]

I didn't think it had to prove or disprove anything. It was the first item on that list that I found that I thought we might all be able to agree with.
OK, Anne. Then, no it can't be included.

We don't know if Scott owned or used the duct tape found on Laci. All we know is that LE didn't find a roll of duct tape in Scott's possession that matched the duct tape found on Laci.

If LE did find a matching roll of duct tape, say in Scott's boat, say with some hair that had a 112 to 1 chance of being Laci's, that still wouldn't prove Scott is guilty or innocent, would it? So, why include it?

[Anne2719]

OK, Anne. Then, no it can't be included.

We don't know if Scott owned or used the duct tape found on Laci. All we know is that LE didn't find a roll of duct tape in Scott's possession that matched the duct tape found on Laci.

If LE did find a matching roll of duct tape, say in Scott's boat, say with some hair that had a 112 to 1 chance of being Laci's, that still wouldn't prove Scott is guilty or innocent, would it? So, why include it?
Sorry, I didn't realize that this was supposed to be a list of things that would prove or disprove anything. I thought it was just a list of things we could agree on.

[accordn2me]

Look. I don't want to presume that I understand your agenda if you have one. I don't even have one myself, but I promise you that the hair color was not even possible from pool usage.

Besides that fact, was it ever established that this was a heated pool?
Amy's testimony...Amy, Laci's sister, who could be called a hair color expert, would agree with your statement postergirl.

[accordn2me]

Sorry, I didn't realize that this was supposed to be a list of things that would prove or disprove anything. I thought it was just a list of things we could agree on.
Well, we can not agree on that one!

What about Laci and Conner were murdered?

[Anne2719]

Well, we can not agree on that one!

What about Laci and Conner were murdered?
I would say Laci was murdered and Conner died as a result.

What do the other items that are already on the list prove/disprove about guilt or innocence? I'm a little taken aback by the hostility.

[postergirl]

Amy's testimony...Amy, Laci's sister, who could be called a hair color expert, would agree with your statement postergirl.


If she's the only person who could or did testify to the likelyhood of his hair being changed that much by a pool in MARCH, I expect that some people could discount that testimony on the basis that she was Laci's sister.

[accordn2me]

Sorry, I didn't realize that this was supposed to be a list of things that would prove or disprove anything. I thought it was just a list of things we could agree on.I'm sorry, Anne. You didn't deserve my rudeness. You seem to be a peacekeeper. I'm ashamed.

If it's just stuff we can agree on, how about these:

Scott and Laci were married.
Jackie & Lee were Scott's parents
Sharon & Dennis were Laci's parents. Ron was her stepfather.
Brent & Amy were Laci's siblings.
Amy cut Scott's hair at the salon the night before Laci was reported missing.

all nice, agreeable stuff....but they don't matter!

[accordn2me]

If she's the only person who could or did testify to the likelyhood of his hair being changed that much by a pool in MARCH, I expect that some people could discount that testimony on the basis that she was Laci's sister.How long have you been posting here pgirl?

If not long, you are in for one wild ride at what testimony people can discount and on what basis.

[Anne2719]

I'm sorry, Anne. You didn't deserve my rudeness. You seem to be a peacekeeper. I'm ashamed.

If it's just stuff we can agree on, how about these:

Scott and Laci were married.
Jackie & Lee were Scott's parents
Sharon & Dennis were Laci's parents. Ron was her stepfather.
Brent & Amy were Laci's siblings.
Amy cut Scott's hair at the salon the night before Laci was reported missing.

all nice, agreeable stuff....but they don't matter!
Heh, well I bet if we try, we can find more than those.

[accordn2me]

I would say Laci was murdered and Conner died as a result.

What do the other items that are already on the list prove/disprove about guilt or innocence? I'm a little taken aback by the hostility.

You are right, "Laci was murdered and Conner died as a result," is a better way of stating it.

I am wrong about anything on this list being about prove/disprove guilt or innocence. I apologize for my frustration!

There are things on Wudge's lists that I agree with, like "there is no time of death." I'm not sure I understand the relevance of some of them.

[Anne2719]

You are right, "Laci was murdered and Conner died as a result," is a better way of stating it.

I am wrong about anything on this list being about prove/disprove guilt or innocence. I apologize for my frustration!

There are things on Wudge's lists that I agree with, like "there is no time of death." I'm not sure I understand the relevance of some of them.
Yes -- I'm having a hard time picking things from Wudge's list, though, because so many items are either disputable or inflammatory. As for the duct tape, I don't know if that's a legitimate point or not. I figured it might be true, so thought I'd offer it up.

As I've said before, I'm looking to be convinced one way or the other. I tend to think Scott did it, but I'm not sure the evidence presented in court was enough to convict him. I would like to end up on one side or the other, and I've found interesting points on both sides. I'm still leaning towards the "he did it" side, but don't know if it was a good conviction, if that makes any sense.

[postergirl]

How long have you been posting here pgirl?

If not long, you are in for one wild ride at what testimony people can discount and on what basis.


I read and posted on the CTV Laci forum until SP was arrested. Before that, I had seen many things that were posted and taken as fact which were untrue. After he was arrested, I decided to wait until the trial for more information because I figured I wouldn't be able to trust or have the time to keep up with inadmissable revelations.

You said that Laci's sister testified about the hair color, and that's what I based my post upon. If there were others who contradicted her, I have to confess that don't know about that. That if there were, I wouldn't credit them for a second really has no bearing on whether or not I read every single transcript or every single post by anyone who ever had anything to say about Laci Peterson, does it?

[cookiewench]

Look. I don't want to presume that I understand your agenda if you have one. I don't even have one myself, but I promise you that the hair color was not even possible from pool usage.

Besides that fact, was it ever established that this was a heated pool?


What???????? I was telling her what SCOTT SAID happened to his hair.

Of course the color change wasn't possible from the pool! If it had been, every other person who went into the pool would have been walking around with orange hair!

And that leads me to......one of the "common grounds" should be that Scott was an inveterate liar. He lied even when they was no cause or reason to.

[accordn2me]

We are listing facts ..not speculations..

Is it a fact that he changed his hair color? no

Is it a speculation that he changed his hair color? yes

DISTASO: Did you see him, get the exact date. Did you see him on April 3rd?

RICHARDSON: Yes
<snip>

DISTASO: And did you notice anything different about his appearance?

RICHARDSON: Yes. I noticed his hair color was different.

DISTASO: Did you notice anything else?

RICHARDSON: That was basically it.

DISTASO: Did you notice any facial hair on him?

RICHARDSON: Yes, I did.

DISTASO: Was that different color as well?

RICHARDSON: Yes.

DISTASO: Did you ask him about that?

RICHARDSON: Yes.

DISTASO: And what did he say about it?

RICHARDSON: He said that he was swimming in a friend's pool, and that the chlorine in the pool had changed the color of his hair and his goatee.

http://www.scottisinnocent.com/Trial/Trial/Guilt/Pwitnesses/Richardson.htm

when was SP arrested?

[Wudge]

The concrete poured along the side of the driveway matched the concrete in the anchor.

Tuscan Dream Asked: Do you have a link for this?



Steven Gebler, Expert Witness For The Defense On Cross


25 THE WITNESS: Because he erroneously said that
26 this coarse aggregate was part of that pea gravel mix, and it

19297
1 wasn't.
3
MR. DAVID HARRIS: Q. And did you cut and lap
3 Exhibit Number 80?
4 A. No, I did not. Nobody had the --
5 Q. Did you do a petrographic examination of it?
6 A. No, I did not.
7 Q. Now, the petrographic examination that was done by
8 Mr. Vollmer was done by taking some paste from your item
9 Number 4, was it 11?
10 A. One of them. And also my Samples 1 and 2.
11 Q. Can you see in the report where it says your
12 samples were examined, the cementitious paste was examined
13 for petrographic examination?
14 A. The whom thing is a petrographic examination. You
15 can use a stereo microscope. There is number of ways to do
16 the examination. And this is how we chose to do it, which is
17 well within the ASTM C 856, which is the test method for an
18 examination of concrete for petrographic examination.
19 Q. Can you show me where in the report that it says
20 that you did an examination of cementitious paste?
21 A. I'm sorry?
22 Q. Were you did an examination of cementitious paste.
23 A. You mean me, or Mr. Vollmer?
24 Q. Either one, of your sample.
25 A. We used Samples 1 and 2, which is -- are my
26 samples that I selected. And we did a petrographic

19298
1 examination. We used a 45 power stereo microscope, which is
2 perfectly acceptable for what we were trying to identify what
3 the constituents were.
4 Q. Can you show me where in the report?
5 A. It says that?
6 Q. Yeah.
7 A. Yeah. Samples -- under method of test, in the
8 first paragraph it says Samples 1 and 2 were impregnated with
9 epoxy. After the epoxy hardened, these samples were then cut
10 longitudinally, and one of the surfaces of each was lapped
11 and examined using a stereo microscope at magnification up to
12 45 times.
13 Q. What's the very next sentence?
14 A. Representative areas of paste from Sample 11 were
15 removed and mounted on a glass microscope slide in Propylene
16 Glycol. This resulting preparation was examined by use of
17 polarized light, parentheses, petrographic microscope, at
18 magnification up to 400 times to determine the presence of
19 any fly ash.
20 Q. So going back to the question. Can you show me
21 where in the report that you took paste sample of your
22 samples and checked it for its constituents?
23 A. When we cut and lapped. That's what I'm just
24 saying. Samples 1 and 2 were lapped along with Sample 11 of
25 Item Number 4, and were examined petrographically.
26 Q. Under 45 power magnification?

19299
1 A. That was all you needed to do to see what the
2 constituents were.
3 Q. But you then turn around in Mr. Vollmer's report,
4 and says representative samples of Sample 11 were examined
5 under 400 hundred times to do a petrographic examination.
6 And then the sentence you just read is --
7 A. No, you didn't read the whole sentence. You left
8 out the important part. Because I directed Mr. Vollmer that
9 I wanted to know if there was fly ash present. And that's
10 why we did it on that sample.
11 Q. So you have to look under the 400 power microscope
12 to determine if there is fly ash in the paste; isn't that
13 correct?
14 A. That's what we did, yes.

[postergirl]

What???????? I was telling her what SCOTT SAID happened to his hair.

Of course the color change wasn't possible from the pool! If it had been, every other person who went into the pool would have been walking around with orange hair!

And that leads me to......one of the "common grounds" should be that Scott was an inveterate liar. He lied even when they was no cause or reason to.

Chill. I missed your previous post and having taken your second one out of context was still able to comment without having a spitting seizure comparable to your own. I even put a disclaimer in the first sentence of my post in case I had misunderstood. The fact that I HAD didn't dissuade you from having a cow for fun.

Unlike attorney sumpin, who seems to have a brain in her head and be able to disagree or misunderstand without having a jagged fit of exclaimation points.

[Wudge]

LE never found the mythical submerging anchors despite searching the bay for months.

Tuscan Dream Replied & Asked: Aside from the Mythical statement, this appears true. The anchors were not found, correct?

No anchors were found in the bay. No one saw more than one anchor. No one testified that Scott made more than one anchor. Given Distaso’s speculative premises, no valid and true deductive conclusion can be developed establishing Scott made more than one anchor, and no one has ever claimed they could develop a valid and true deductive conclusion. Therefore, the alleged submerging anchors are not fact. Given they are not fact, then Distaso’s fanciful speculation represents more case mythology – of which there is a ton.

[Wudge]

The large diamond earrings that Laci inherited were never found.

For: Tuscan Dream

Direct Of Robin Marie Rocha

Q. And when you had gone through all of the jewelry
3 that Detective Grogan had there, did you determine if there
4 was anything missing from your grandmother's jewelry that
5 had been passed on to Laci?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. And were that -- was that -- how many items did
8 you determine were missing?
9 A. One watch and one pair of earrings.
10 Q. The earrings that we're talking about, what kind
11 of earrings were these?
12 A. They were diamond, and they had screw-backs
13 instead of just a straight post. They were screw-backs.

[Wudge]

Laci never told her parents or friends that Scott played around.

For: Tuscan Dream


Sharon Rocha On Direct

17 Q. Had you ever learned that he had had an affair
18 with any woman?
19 A. No.


Sharon Rocha On Cross-Examination

16 Q. And it's fair to say, the prosecutor asked you,
17 you didn't know anything about Amber Frey, correct?
18 A. That's correct.
19 Q. You didn't know anything about any other affairs?
20 A. No, I didn't.
21 Q. Laci had never told you anything about those?
22 A. (Shakes head)


Later Sharon Testifies

10 No. The -- you -- after the 24th, you were
11 informed about another affair that had happened in which
12 Laci obviously had known about it because --
13 A. I was told she knew about it.
14 Q. Yeah. And you didn't -- and Laci did not confide
15 that in you?
16 A. No, she didn't tell me about it. But she wasn't
17 living in Modesto at that time, either, so she was -- in
18 San Luis Obispo.

[accordn2me]

Laci was reported missing December 24th.

Scott ordered the Playboy channel January 8th.

Scott upgraded to the Ecstacy channel January 25th.

[Anne2719]

The large diamond earrings that Laci inherited were never found.

For: Tuscan Dream

Direct Of Robin Marie Rocha

Q. And when you had gone through all of the jewelry
3 that Detective Grogan had there, did you determine if there
4 was anything missing from your grandmother's jewelry that
5 had been passed on to Laci?
6 A. Yes, I did.
7 Q. And were that -- was that -- how many items did
8 you determine were missing?
9 A. One watch and one pair of earrings.
10 Q. The earrings that we're talking about, what kind
11 of earrings were these?
12 A. They were diamond, and they had screw-backs
13 instead of just a straight post. They were screw-backs.
What do you infer from the disappearance of the earrings? Were they stolen? Or was Laci wearing them when she disappeared? I remember a reference to something about Scott asking Laci to sell some of her jewelry. Did she do that? If so, were any items she might've sold tracked down?

[accordn2me]

Laci was reported missing December 24th.

Scott ordered the Playboy channel January 8th.

Scott upgraded to the Ecstacy channel January 25th.To this list, I'd like to add, Scott inquired about selling the house in January, the month after Laci disappeared.

[Anne2719]

To this list, I'd like to add, Scott inquired about selling the house in January, the month after Laci disappeared.
And I think he did sell her car, didn't he?

[Wudge]

Yes -- I'm having a hard time picking things from Wudge's list, though, because so many items are either disputable or inflammatory. As for the duct tape, I don't know if that's a legitimate point or not. I figured it might be true, so thought I'd offer it up.

As I've said before, I'm looking to be convinced one way or the other. I tend to think Scott did it, but I'm not sure the evidence presented in court was enough to convict him. I would like to end up on one side or the other, and I've found interesting points on both sides. I'm still leaning towards the "he did it" side, but don't know if it was a good conviction, if that makes any sense.


Distaso never said, claimed or argued the duct tape matched.

[Wudge]

What do you infer from the disappearance of the earrings? Were they stolen? Or was Laci wearing them when she disappeared? I remember a reference to something about Scott asking Laci to sell some of her jewelry. Did she do that? If so, were any items she might've sold tracked down?

If you read the testimony of her family and friends. Laci was wearing those ear rings a lot after she inherited them.

The burglars were looking for items that were worth big bucks. Her ear rings were worth 8 to 9 thousand dollars as I recall.

Her grandmothers jewelry was quite valuable. Laci had asked Mr. Scumacher, the jeweler, to have her new wedding ring ready on Xmas Eve; a wedding ring that was worth $55,000.

[Anne2719]

If you read the testimony of her family and friends. Laci was wearing those ear rings a lot after she inherited them.

The burglars were looking for items that were worth big bucks. Her ear rings were worth 8 to 9 thousand dollars as I recall.

Her grandmothers jewelry was quite valuable. Laci had asked Mr. Scumacher, the jeweler, to have her new wedding ring ready on Xmas Eve; a wedding ring that was worth $55,000.
Was it possible Laci was wearing the earrings when she disappeared? Am I correct that her head was never recovered?

[A_seeker]

From Wudge's list:

The duct tape found on Laci’s body did not match any duct tape that Scott owned or used.

Any discussion of this, or can we add it to the list?

I don't think that can be added to list of "agreed" on. We have no proof whasoever that Scott never used or owned duct tape like that.

[One2Snoop]

Chill. I missed your previous post and having taken your second one out of context was still able to comment without having a spitting seizure comparable to your own. I even put a disclaimer in the first sentence of my post in case I had misunderstood. The fact that I HAD didn't dissuade you from having a cow for fun.

Unlike attorney sumpin, who seems to have a brain in her head and be able to disagree or misunderstand without having a jagged fit of exclaimation points.

Alrighty then - how about we refrain from the name calling? I don't mind a little sarcasm here and there but the rest has to go.

Thank you.

[One2Snoop]

Was it possible Laci was wearing the earrings when she disappeared? Am I correct that her head was never recovered?

You are correct, her head was never recovered.

[cookiewench]

Chill. I missed your previous post and having taken your second one out of context was still able to comment without having a spitting seizure comparable to your own. I even put a disclaimer in the first sentence of my post in case I had misunderstood. The fact that I HAD didn't dissuade you from having a cow for fun.

Unlike attorney sumpin, who seems to have a brain in her head and be able to disagree or misunderstand without having a jagged fit of exclaimation points.

In other words, you got caught with your pants down but are incapable of an apology about the personal jabs you were throwing out - so, you're going to get even more aggressive.

No surprises here.

[Wudge]

Was it possible Laci was wearing the earrings when she disappeared? Am I correct that her head was never recovered?

That's almost certain, no one has ever thought otherwise, including family, friends, LE and case followers.

[Anne2719]

That's almost certain, no one has ever thought otherwise, including family, friends, LE and case followers.
Then it wouldn't be wrong to assume the earrings might be with the head?

[One2Snoop]

In other words, you got caught with your pants down but are incapable of an apology about the personal jabs you were throwing out - so, you're going to get even more aggressive.

No surprises here.

I've already addressed postergirl on this matter - lets end it here. Thank you.

To Postergirl - Alrighty then - how about we refrain from the name calling? I don't mind a little sarcasm here and there but the rest has to go.

Thank you.

[Wudge]

I don't think that can be added to list of "agreed" on. We have no proof whasoever that Scott never used or owned duct tape like that.

The duct tape from Laci's body was set to the lab for comparison with duct tape that Scott had. There was no match. Nor could they match the animal hairs on the duct tape to those in the Peterson house.

[Wudge]

Then it wouldn't be wrong to assume the earrings might be with the head?

The missing ear rings simply establish that Scott would not have murdered Laci for money. The burglars would certainlu have kept them.

[accordn2me]

The hair found on the pliers in Scott's boat was consistent with Laci's mitochondrial DNA.

[Anne2719]

The missing ear rings simply establish that Scott would not have murdered Laci for money. The burglars would certainlu have kept them.
But he might have murdered her out of anger or to get her out of the way, and left the earrings on her when he disposed of her body. Isn't that a possibility?

[accordn2me]

And I think he did sell her car, didn't he?
Yes. Put that on the list along with the fact that the hair found on the pliers found in Scott's boat was consistent with Laci's mitochondrial DNA.

[A_seeker]

The duct tape from Laci's body was set to the lab for comparison with duct tape that Scott had. There was no match. Nor could they match the animal hairs on the duct tape to those in the Peterson house.

Scott could have easily ditched the duct tape which matched.

[cookiewench]

Or used up the entire roll on his murdered wife's body.

[Wudge]

But he might have murdered her out of anger or to get her out of the way, and left the earrings on her when he disposed of her body. Isn't that a possibility?

Scott could have murdered Laci. No one knows for sure other than the murderer and God. But the theory that there is proof of a long thought-out premeditated plan is just hogwash. No one, anywhere, has ever established clear and unyielding support for premeditation.

Also, Scott was totally non violent. LE could never find a fight he had been in throughout his entire life. So to think that he suddenly decides to resolve a problem through murder is not supportable by his profile.

But if he did murder Laci, a fight would seem the most likely source of friction.

[cookiewench]

That really means nothing, wudge.

Ted Bundy was never known to be violent, never known to lose his temper, and was always polite and personable.

And I could give you a long list of men who've been proven to have murdered their wives, who'd never raised their hand to anyone before in their life. Real Caspar Milquetoast types.

Means nothing.

[Anne2719]

Scott could have murdered Laci. No one knows for sure other than the murderer and God. But the theory that there is proof of a long thought-out premeditated plan is just hogwash. No one, anywhere, has ever established clear and unyielding support for premeditation.

Also, Scott was totally non violent. LE could never find a fight he had been in throughout his entire life. So to think that he suddenly decides to resolve a problem through murder is not supportable by his profile.

But if he did murder Laci, a fight would seem the most likely source of friction.
I tend to agree with the fight vs. premeditation theory, unless he's a total idiot. On the other hand, he didn't demonstrate a lot of intelligence after the fact, so I guess it's possible he could have planned it really badly.

[Wudge]

Scott could have easily ditched the duct tape which matched.

The fact remains that the duct tape on Laci's body did not match any duct tape that Scott used or was in the Peterson home.

[Anne2719]

That really means nothing, wudge.

Ted Bundy was never known to be violent, never known to lose his temper, and was always polite and personable.

And I could give you a long list of men who've been proven to have murdered their wives, who'd never raised their hand to anyone before in their life. Real Caspar Milquetoast types.

Means nothing.
Good point. John List is a good example. And he calmly killed his entire family. To the best of my knowledge, he didn't have a history of violence.

[Wudge]

I tend to agree with the fight vs. premeditation theory, unless he's a total idiot. On the other hand, he didn't demonstrate a lot of intelligence after the fact, so I guess it's possible he could have planned it really badly.

That's the problem with the fight theory, There is absiolutely no forensic evidence anywhere that supports Scott murdering Laci through a fight or plan. So then you go to a brilliant plan.

However no brilliant plan has you submerging a body in the full daylight of high noon where thousands of baywatchwers could see watch you do it. And after you do something dumb like that, you get even dumber and tell LE right where to find the body, which is also your place of alibi.

All of that would be simply felony stupid.

[Anne2719]

That's the problem with the fight theory, There is absiolutely no forensic evidence anywhere that supports Scott murdering Laci through a fight or plan. So then you go to a brilliant plan.

However no brilliant plan has you submerging a body in the full daylight of high noon where thousands of baywatchwers could see watch you do it. And after you do something dumb like that, you get even dumber and tell LE right where to find the body, which is also your place of alibi.

All of that would be simply felony stupid.
Well, as I mentioned above, Scott didn't demonstrate after the fact that he was Mensa material.

[accordn2me]

I tend to agree with the fight vs. premeditation theory, unless he's a total idiot. On the other hand, he didn't demonstrate a lot of intelligence after the fact, so I guess it's possible he could have planned it really badly.
A fight? Like one you'd have when you tell your pregnant wife you're having an affair? Maybe....

Scott's "plan" may not have resulted in conviction had the bodies not washed up where they did. Clearly, he never planned on that happening. Another month or so and it wouldn't have matter how low the tide or how strong the storm, there wouldn't have been anything left to wash up. And Scott would have had his Jack Cadillac freedom he never got.

Can we agree that we can't agree on the duct tape?

[Anne2719]

A fight? Like one you'd have when you tell your pregnant wife you're having an affair? Maybe....

Scott's "plan" may not have resulted in conviction had the bodies not washed up where they did. Clearly, he never planned on that happening. Another month or so and it wouldn't have matter how low the tide or how strong the storm, there wouldn't have been anything left to wash up. And Scott would have had his Jack Cadillac freedom he never got.

Can we agree that we can't agree on the duct tape?
Oh, totally! Now that I've heard the duct tape explanation, it sounds like a non-issue to me.

[accordn2me]

The fact remains that the duct tape on Laci's body did not match any duct tape that Scott used or was in the Peterson home.Can someone tell me, does it seems like Wudge is saying the only duct tape Scott ever owned or used was the duct tape the police found in the Peterson home? Scott never used or owned any other duct tape?

[Anne2719]

Back to the list . . .

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was arrested 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border. He was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.
7. Scott had made at least one trip to Mexico without fleeing.
8. Two weeks before Laci disappeared, Scott told Shawn Sibley and Amber Frey that he'd lost his wife.

Next item?

[Lili007]

[QUOTE=Wudge;8834515]The large diamond earrings that Laci inherited were never found.
..................SNIP

QUOTE]

Of course not. Neither was her head.

[accordn2me]

Posts #134 & 150 each contain good items. All of them eventually... Take your pick.

And what happened to the word murdered? I know it's an ugly word. But it's real.

"The Murder of Laci Peterson & Conviction of Scott Peterson" it's right at the top of the page!

[Anne2719]

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was arrested 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border. He was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.
7. Scott had made at least one trip to Mexico without fleeing.
8. Two weeks before Laci disappeared, Scott told Shawn Sibley and Amber Frey that he'd lost his wife.
9. Scott inquired about selling the house in January, the month after Laci disappeared.

(a2me, I think there would be a battle over the item in #150)

[accordn2me]

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was arrested 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border. He was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.
7. Scott had made at least one trip to Mexico without fleeing.
8. Two weeks before Laci disappeared, Scott told Shawn Sibley and Amber Frey that he'd lost his wife.
9. Scott inquired about selling the house in January, the month after Laci disappeared.

(a2me, I think there would be a battle over the item in #150)

The hair was consistent, like the fact that Laci was murdered and as a result, Connor died.

[Anne2719]

The hair was consistent, like the fact that Laci was murdered and as a result, Connor died.
Okay, confession time. I have a hard time referring to an unborn child by the name that was chosen for him during the pregnancy. This has been a private sore point with me since Laci disappeared.

And aren't there some SII members who believe that the baby was actually born and murdered after the birth? Can't we leave it at both being deceased?

[Is it "Connor" or "Conner"? I've seen it both ways.]

[Lili007]

Scott could have murdered Laci. No one knows for sure other than the murderer and God. But the theory that there is proof of a long thought-out premeditated plan is just hogwash. No one, anywhere, has ever established clear and unyielding support for premeditation.

Also, Scott was totally non violent. LE could never find a fight he had been in throughout his entire life. So to think that he suddenly decides to resolve a problem through murder is not supportable by his profile.

But if he did murder Laci, a fight would seem the most likely source of friction.

A month or two is not "long", in the scheme of things. His affair with Amber, his seeming inability to get into "father" mode, his desire for adventure and freedom from responsibility all gathered together and gained momentum in a short period of time. I never thought he sat somewhere and planned Laci's murder months ahead. That's not the point.

The point is that he killed her and that it did involve SOME planning.

Buying a boat the day after he had to come clean to Amber that he wasn't the swinging single he portrayed himself to be, and then throwing himself at her feet (or her shoulder) sobbing about how he "lost" his wife...

Boat registered in the name of Peterson (the guy he bought it from), so he didn't have any hurry about registering it in his own name...

Hiding the boat in his warehouse... making concrete anchors...

Using the boat for the first time the day Laci "disappears", driving a 180 mile return trip to spend less than 1 hour on the water as an "avid fisherman"...

Laci and Conner's bodies surfacing 4 months later in the same place where Scott went "fishing" for the one and only time in that secret boat of his. Do the math, as the saying goes...

As to your statement about Scott being "totally non violent":

Remember when he threw the torch to the ground using the "F" word as LE were looking in the house the night Laci was reported missing?

Remember the barbecued chicken incident?

None of that shows violence per se... but it does show a temper. It's like a dormant volcano - it doesn't do anything but rumble every now and then.

Until it explodes.

[One2Snoop]

Okay, confession time. I have a hard time referring to an unborn child by the name that was chosen for him during the pregnancy. This has been a private sore point with me since Laci disappeared.

And aren't there some SII members who believe that the baby was actually born and murdered after the birth? Can't we leave it at both being deceased?

[Is it "Connor" or "Conner"? I've seen it both ways.]

There were two seperate bodies that were discovered floating in the bay- neither are living - both are deceased thus the reason I like to address the baby as an individual. This is just my preference though.

The correct spelling is Conner.

[Anne2719]

What was the barbecued chicken incident?

[Lili007]

Okay, confession time. I have a hard time referring to an unborn child by the name that was chosen for him during the pregnancy. This has been a private sore point with me since Laci disappeared.

And aren't there some SII members who believe that the baby was actually born and murdered after the birth? Can't we leave it at both being deceased?

[Is it "Connor" or "Conner"? I've seen it both ways.]

It's Conner. I learned that early in the investigation and have always been meticulous in using the right name. Doesn't do much for that little boy, but it's my very small way of showing respect.

http://www.lacipeterson.com/

[accordn2me]

Okay, confession time. I have a hard time referring to an unborn child by the name that was chosen for him during the pregnancy. This has been a private sore point with me since Laci disappeared.

And aren't there some SII members who believe that the baby was actually born and murdered after the birth? Can't we leave it at both being deceased?

[Is it "Connor" or "Conner"? I've seen it both ways.]As for the spelling, I could swear I saw on TV...Scott was asked in court and he said which one....but of course I'm not sure which one he said...

I think I know what you mean about the baby's name. I know people who've picked out a name but when they looked at their baby, went with something else. "The baby" is just as easy to type as Connor, but when you type Conner (which ever you choose) when you're talking about this case, it's clear you are talking about Scott and Laci's baby vs. another baby.

[Anne2719]

As for the spelling, I could swear I saw on TV...Scott was asked in court and he said which one....but of course I'm not sure which one he said...

I think I know what you mean about the baby's name. I know people who've picked out a name but when they looked at their baby, went with something else. "The baby" is just as easy to type as Connor, but when you type Conner (which ever you choose) when you're talking about this case, it's clear you are talking about Scott and Laci's baby vs. another baby.
My younger daughter was going to be Stephanie (or possibly David) up until the day she was born. She turned out to be Ellen. I can't imagine her as a Stephanie now, almost 27 years later.

[Lili007]

What was the barbecued chicken incident?

"I saw more reaction out of him when he burnt the god-darned chicken then when his wife went missing," Kemple told the court.

The prosecution witness and self-proclaimed grill miester testified that in happier times -- during a family barbecue -- he kept trying to give Scott Peterson pointers on how to cook the chicken. But Peterson didn't listen, he said. And when the bird came out charred, Peterson slammed down the barbecue lid and acted visibly frustrated, according to Kemple.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/a/2004/06/09/PETERSON09.TMP

[Lili007]

As for the spelling, I could swear I saw on TV...Scott was asked in court and he said which one....but of course I'm not sure which one he said...

I think I know what you mean about the baby's name. I know people who've picked out a name but when they looked at their baby, went with something else. "The baby" is just as easy to type as Connor, but when you type Conner (which ever you choose) when you're talking about this case, it's clear you are talking about Scott and Laci's baby vs. another baby.

It's CONNER. Even Scott remembered that much.

As I said before, I learned that very early in the case, when my instinct was to spell the baby's name as "Connor", until I saw this, and other references.

http://www.lacipeterson.com/

http://www.findlaci2003.us/conner-index.html

[accordn2me]

It's CONNER. Even Scott remembered that much.

As I said before, I learned that very early in the case, when my instinct was to spell the baby's name as "Connor", until I saw this, and other references.

http://www.lacipeterson.com/

http://www.findlaci2003.us/conner-index.htmlThank you, Lili. We had a hurricane named Lili, spelled just like yours...in 2004, I believe it was. :beer:

In Louisiana...

[Lili007]

Thank you, Lili. We had a hurricane named Lili, spelled just like yours...in 2004, I believe it was. :beer:

In Louisiana...

You're not calling me a hurricane, are you, A2me?? :D

[One2Snoop]

The missing ear rings simply establish that Scott would not have murdered Laci for money. The burglars would certainlu have kept them.

You might be right - Scott didn't murder Laci for money. Besides the fact that what jewelry appraises for is nothing near what you will get for it in cash value - its usually 1/3 of the appraised value if you're lucky. Having worked in a jewelry store in my younger years this is the way I recall it worked.

IIRC the only reason appraisals are done are for insurance purposes/ replacement cost.

IMO, this doesn't prove anything for Scott or against the burglars.

[Anne2719]

You might be right - Scott didn't murder Laci for money. Besides the fact that what jewelry appraises for is nothing near what you will get for it in cash value - its usually 1/3 of the appraised value if you're lucky. Having worked in a jewelry store in my younger years this is the way I recall it worked.

IIRC the only reason appraisals are done are for insurance purposes/ replacement cost.

IMO, this doesn't prove anything for Scott or against the burglars.
I agree that it proves nothing. [And I had no idea it worked that way with jewelry appraisals -- wow!]

[One2Snoop]

I agree that it proves nothing. [And I had no idea it worked that way with jewelry appraisals -- wow!]

Most people don't realize it and IMO many people are scammed out of money thinking they can turn around and sell something like a diamond ring for equal or more than what they paid for it a year earlier. Same with art unless its a verifiable orignial and even then the artist has to be very well known - like van gogh or michael angelo for example.

Also you need to take out extra homeowners insurance for more expensive type items - most will cover up to a certain amount, like $5,000 and after that you are SOL. Just something to keep in mind.

Check out the jewelry (particularly diamond rings) at ebay. You can find alot of shafted ex-grooms and ex-brides or newly divorced selling their wares for a really good price.

[Anne2719]

Most people don't realize it and IMO many people are scammed out of money thinking they can turn around and sell something like a diamond ring for equal or more than what they paid for it a year earlier. Same with art unless its a verifiable orignial and even then the artist has to be very well known - like van gogh or michael angelo for example.

Also you need to take out extra homeowners insurance for more expensive type items - most will cover up to a certain amount, like $5,000 and after that you are SOL. Just something to keep in mind.

Check out the jewelry (particularly diamond rings) at ebay. You can find alot of shafted ex-grooms and ex-brides or newly divorced selling their wares for a really good price.
Good price for the buyers, I take it . . . not the sellers.

[Lili007]

You might be right - Scott didn't murder Laci for money. Besides the fact that what jewelry appraises for is nothing near what you will get for it in cash value - its usually 1/3 of the appraised value if you're lucky. Having worked in a jewelry store in my younger years this is the way I recall it worked.

IIRC the only reason appraisals are done are for insurance purposes/ replacement cost.

IMO, this doesn't prove anything for Scott or against the burglars.

I don't think Scott murdered Laci for money, either - at least not directly.

I think he wanted freedom do do as he pleased without the responsibility of accounting to anyone. Trouble was... he needed money to live that life. So I think that he might have thought the insurance policies would come in handy.

We know that he sold Laci's car and that he tried to sell their house as well, long before he would have known she was dead. Except that he was the best person to KNOW she was dead, since he'd killed her and disposed of her body himself.

When everything got too serious (as in baby about to be born, good bye Jack Cadillac, Cassanova about to be castrated), he had to make a choice. And he did.

[accordn2me]

You might be right - Scott didn't murder Laci for money. Besides the fact that what jewelry appraises for is nothing near what you will get for it in cash value - its usually 1/3 of the appraised value if you're lucky. Having worked in a jewelry store in my younger years this is the way I recall it worked.

IIRC the only reason appraisals are done are for insurance purposes/ replacement cost.

IMO, this doesn't prove anything for Scott or against the burglars.

Given your experience working in a jewelry store, your experience as a parent, what would your best educated guess be to this question:

What would have the greatest monetary value:
a) these earrings Laci inherited that can't be found since her murder
b) 18 years of child support & medical expenses for Conner

[accordn2me]

You're not calling me a hurricane, are you, A2me?? :D
If the name fits, Lili....

She was a blast! :lol:

[Lili007]

Given your experience working in a jewelry store, your experience as a parent, what would your best educated guess be to this question:

What would have the greatest monetary value:
a) these earrings Laci inherited that can't be found since her murder
b) 18 years of child support & medical expenses for Conner

The latter would have hurt his wallet a lot, lot more :D

[Lili007]

If the name fits, Lili....

She was a blast! :lol:

Sheesh! I wish I could just RAIN on Aus-land at this point in time!

:biggrin:

[thinkaboutit]

A month or two is not "long", in the scheme of things. His affair with Amber, his seeming inability to get into "father" mode, his desire for adventure and freedom from responsibility all gathered together and gained momentum in a short period of time. I never thought he sat somewhere and planned Laci's murder months ahead. That's not the point.

The point is that he killed her and that it did involve SOME planning.

Buying a boat the day after he had to come clean to Amber that he wasn't the swinging single he portrayed himself to be, and then throwing himself at her feet (or her shoulder) sobbing about how he "lost" his wife...

Boat registered in the name of Peterson (the guy he bought it from), so he didn't have any hurry about registering it in his own name...

Hiding the boat in his warehouse... making concrete anchors...

Using the boat for the first time the day Laci "disappears", driving a 180 mile return trip to spend less than 1 hour on the water as an "avid fisherman"...

Laci and Conner's bodies surfacing 4 months later in the same place where Scott went "fishing" for the one and only time in that secret boat of his. Do the math, as the saying goes...

As to your statement about Scott being "totally non violent":

Remember when he threw the torch to the ground using the "F" word as LE were looking in the house the night Laci was reported missing?

Remember the barbecued chicken incident?

None of that shows violence per se... but it does show a temper. It's like a dormant volcano - it doesn't do anything but rumble every now and then.

Until it explodes.

Lili - I'd say some of your points are a little exaggerated and/or inaccurate.

I'm not going to address all of the exaggerations/and or inaccuracies - since this is not the thread for it - but two of them I can't help but correct.

Scott's wife is missing. The police are questioning him on where he was fishing, what he was fishing for, and what kind of bait he was using. Let's look at it from an innocent perspective for just one moment....even an innocent man would have been frustrated - and throwing a flashlight onto the ground is not violence - nor does it show a temper - it shows frustration - period.

And aaah - yes - the famous burnt chicken testimony. Scott slammed down the barbecue pit lid because he was angry about burning the chicken. Wasn't it established that the barbecue pit had no lid?

[thinkaboutit]

Can we agree on these two points Wudge posted?

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on Scott’s truck bed or inside the Greenlee tool box.

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent in the boat.

[thinkaboutit]

And how bout these?

The night before, Scott asked Amy over for pizza.

The night before, Scott told Amy he would pick up her present at Vella Farms after 12:00PM on Xmas Eve


(Wudge I changed your AM to PM - is that ok?).

[thinkaboutit]

And this one:

A dog handler, Ron Seitz, testified that working off scent from Laci’s pink slipper, his dog, TJ, did not find Laci’s scent at the marina.

[TuscanDreams]

[QUOTE=Anne2719;8834582]1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was arrested 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border. He was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.
7. Scott had made at least one trip to Mexico without fleeing.
8. Two weeks before Laci disappeared, Scott told Shawn Sibley and Amber Frey that he'd lost his wife.
9. Scott inquired about selling the house in January, the month after Laci disappeared.


:beer: This is living proof that we can all get along!

What can we add to this list? When did he sell the Land Rover?

[Wudge]

And how bout these?

The night before, Scott asked Amy over for pizza.

The night before, Scott told Amy he would pick up her present at Vella Farms after 12:00PM on Xmas Eve


(Wudge I changed your AM to PM - is that ok?).


Much appreciated.

:patriot:

[thinkaboutit]

[QUOTE=Anne2719;8834582]1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was arrested 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border. He was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.
7. Scott had made at least one trip to Mexico without fleeing.
8. Two weeks before Laci disappeared, Scott told Shawn Sibley and Amber Frey that he'd lost his wife.
9. Scott inquired about selling the house in January, the month after Laci disappeared.


:beer: This is living proof that we can all get along!

What can we add to this list? When did he sell the Land Rover?

Yes - it is proof that we can get along - thanks to the NG's. Every one of these points were made by the G's and are derogatory in nature for Scott - except #7. I've made several suggestions from Wudge's list - points that are common knowledge - and they continue to be ignored. Can we address them please?

[accordn2me]

[QUOTE=TuscanDreams;8834681]

Yes - it is proof that we can get along - thanks to the NG's. Every one of these points were made by the G's and are derogatory in nature for Scott - except #7. I've made several suggestions from Wudge's list - points that are common knowledge - and they continue to be ignored. Can we address them please?

derogatory in nature for Scott?


Care to explain how, "Laci is deceased and so is Conner," is derogatory in nature for Scott?

Scott asked Amy over for pizza. I agree with that. Relevance?

How about: Amy had been to Scott and Laci's house before.

or this one: Amy did not go to Scott and Laci's house for pizza on Dec. 23rd.

:confused:

[Wudge]

[QUOTE=TuscanDreams;8834681]

Yes - it is proof that we can get along - thanks to the NG's. Every one of these points were made by the G's and are derogatory in nature for Scott - except #7. I've made several suggestions from Wudge's list - points that are common knowledge - and they continue to be ignored. Can we address them please?

It might be best to establish two threads.

[Toggie]

Wudge, you seem to know a great deal about this case. What is your opinion on Cory Carroll? Was he telling the truth or was that story all baloney?

TIA

[thinkaboutit]

[QUOTE=thinkaboutit;8834702]

derogatory in nature for Scott?


Care to explain how, "Laci is deceased and so is Conner," is derogatory in nature for Scott?

Scott asked Amy over for pizza. I agree with that. Relevance?

How about: Amy had been to Scott and Laci's house before.

or this one: Amy did not go to Scott and Laci's house for pizza on Dec. 23rd.

:confused:

Can we please just address the points, instead of picking apart my post?

You want to talk relevance? I'd say the fact that Scott invited Amy over for pizza on the 23rd (which contradicts pre-meditation) is much more relevant to what we are trying to accomplish on this thread than - Laci and Conner are deceased.

[accordn2me]

[QUOTE=accordn2me;8834724]

Can we please just address the points, instead of picking apart my post?

You want to talk relevance? I'd say the fact that Scott invited Amy over for pizza on the 23rd (which contradicts pre-meditation) is much more relevant to what we are trying to accomplish on this thread than - Laci and Conner are deceased.If Laci and Conner weren't murdered, we wouldn't be on this thread.

I disagree that the fact Scott invited Amy over for pizza on the 23rd contradicts pre-meditation. I think it supports it.

[thinkaboutit]

If Laci and Conner weren't murdered, we wouldn't be on this thread.

I disagree that the fact Scott invited Amy over for pizza on the 23rd contradicts pre-meditation. I think it supports it.


Sorry - but that's ridiculous. Care to elaborate on how Scott asking Amy over for pizza SUPPORTS pre-meditation?

I'm not asking you to agree whether or not it contradicts pre-meditation. I'm asking to agree that Scott asked Amy over for pizza on the 23rd so we can put it on the list - that's all. If the G's can't even compromise enough to put THAT on the list - then there is no point in carrying on with this thread.

[One2Snoop]

Given your experience working in a jewelry store, your experience as a parent, what would your best educated guess be to this question:

What would have the greatest monetary value:
a) these earrings Laci inherited that can't be found since her murder
b) 18 years of child support & medical expenses for Conner

I agree with Lili - B would also be my answer.

[accordn2me]

Sorry - but that's ridiculous. Care to elaborate on how Scott asking Amy over for pizza SUPPORTS pre-meditation?

I'm not asking you to agree whether or not it contradicts pre-meditation. I'm asking to agree that Scott asked Amy over for pizza on the 23rd so we can put it on the list - that's all. If the G's can't even compromise enough to put THAT on the list - then there is no point in carrying on with this thread.tai...you & I didn't get off to the smoothest start. i'm trying not to make statements like....your thinking is ridiculous. I think Scott was trying to do things that made it look like things were hunky dory. It wouldn't have mattered if Amy had gone over for pizza and a movie. Scott had plenty of time to kill Laci.

I can compromise. How about this: Scott invited Amy over for pizza on the 23rd but she didn't go.

[One2Snoop]

tai...you & I didn't get off to the smoothest start. i'm trying not to make statements like....your thinking is ridiculous. I think Scott was trying to do things that made it look like things were hunky dory. It wouldn't have mattered if Amy had gone over for pizza and a movie. Scott had plenty of time to kill Laci.

I can compromise. How about this: Scott invited Amy over for pizza on the 23rd but she didn't go.

That sounds like a good compromise to me.

[thinkaboutit]

tai...you & I didn't get off to the smoothest start. i'm trying not to make statements like....your thinking is ridiculous. I think Scott was trying to do things that made it look like things were hunky dory. It wouldn't have mattered if Amy had gone over for pizza and a movie. Scott had plenty of time to kill Laci.

I can compromise. How about this: Scott invited Amy over for pizza on the 23rd but she didn't go.

You're right - I have been getting increasingly frustrated and I took it out on you - I apologize.

Your compromise is acceptable to me:

Scott invited Amy over for pizza on the 23rd but she didn't go

If there are no other objections - then we can add it to the list.

Now (to all) can we address the others I suggested?

If there are no objections, then I'll assume it's okay to add them also.

[Wudge]

Wudge, you seem to know a great deal about this case. What is your opinion on Cory Carroll? Was he telling the truth or was that story all baloney?

TIA

There were a good many people who attempted to profit or otherwise advantage themselves from the case's high-profile nature.

Cory, low riders, citizen Q, et al were but one of many side-shows that detracted from the probative facts of the case while, at the same time, they generated and added to the slew of fables, myths and falsehoods that surround the entire case.

[TuscanDreams]

[QUOTE=TuscanDreams;8834681]

Yes - it is proof that we can get along - thanks to the NG's. Every one of these points were made by the G's and are derogatory in nature for Scott - except #7. I've made several suggestions from Wudge's list - points that are common knowledge - and they continue to be ignored. Can we address them please?

I'm sorry, I should have added them. I'll do that in a few minutes. If I skip facts again, please let me know. I'm in the middle of writing a paper for grad school and my eyes are darn near crossed.

[TuscanDreams]

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was arrested 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border. He was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.
7. Scott had made at least one trip to Mexico without fleeing.
8. Two weeks before Laci disappeared, Scott told Shawn Sibley and Amber Frey that he'd lost his wife.
9. Scott inquired about selling the house in January, the month after Laci disappeared.
10. No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on Scott’s truck bed or inside the Greenlee tool box.
11. No trailing dog found Laci’s scent in the boat.
12. A dog handler, Ron Seitz, testified that working off scent from Laci’s pink slipper, his dog, TJ, did not find Laci’s scent at the marina.

I wasn't trying to ignore anyone's suggestions, I just didn't see them. WE CAN all get along, this is a thread of common denominators. :beer:

[Wudge]

1. Laci is deceased and so is Conner.
2. Their bodies were discovered near the area where Scott was fishing.
3. Scott had an affair with Amber Frey.
4. By the time Scott was arrested, his hair color was lighter than his natural one.
5. Scott made several trips to the bay in rented vehicles during the search.
6. Scott was arrested 200 yards from the golf course..he was on the road leading to the golf course..he was heading north away from the border. He was approx. 30 miles away from the border..when he was placed into custody.
7. Scott had made at least one trip to Mexico without fleeing.
8. Two weeks before Laci disappeared, Scott told Shawn Sibley and Amber Frey that he'd lost his wife.
9. Scott inquired about selling the house in January, the month after Laci disappeared.
10. No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on Scott’s truck bed or inside the Greenlee tool box.
11. No trailing dog found Laci’s scent in the boat.
12. A dog handler, Ron Seitz, testified that working off scent from Laci’s pink slipper, his dog, TJ, did not find Laci’s scent at the marina.

I wasn't trying to ignore anyone's suggestions, I just didn't see them. WE CAN all get along, this is a thread of common denominators. :beer:


I think it would be nice of we could group together all of the dog facts I noted.

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on Scott’s truck bed or inside the Greenlee tool box.

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent in the boat.

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on the boat cover.

No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on the umbrellas that were in the back of Scott’s truck.

A dog handler, Ron Seitz, testified that working off scent from Laci’s pink slipper, his dog, TJ, did not find Laci’s scent at the marina.

No cadaver dog ever found a probative death scent, not one.

[accordn2me]

OBJECTION! #12. RS did not scent his dog in the vegetation where the other dog scented Laci and where experts said the scent would have lingered. RS' testified his dog did not scent Laci on the concrete boat ramp.

How about we state ALL the "facts" about the dogs, or none at all?

[thinkaboutit]

OBJECTION! #12. RS did not scent his dog in the vegetation where the other dog scented Laci and where experts said the scent would have lingered. RS' testified his dog did not scent Laci on the concrete boat ramp.

How about we state ALL the "facts" about the dogs, or none at all?

Wow Accordn2me! You don't give yourself enough credit - you implied you were a newbie when you introduced yourself - you know an awful lot for a newbie!

Would it take you long to find the testimony your referring to and quote it (I'm not being a smart aleck - I'm not familiar with what you are talking about - the part about the vegetation - and where the experts said the scent would have lingered)?

[accordn2me]

Wow Accordn2me! You don't give yourself enough credit - you implied you were a newbie when you introduced yourself - you know an awful lot for a newbie!

Would it take you long to find the testimony your referring to and quote it (I'm not being a smart aleck - I'm not familiar with what you are talking about - the part about the vegetation - and where the experts said the scent would have lingered)?LOL! I'm a fast study. :read: I have to admit...you caught me this time....I believe I read this about the dog in Distaso's closing argument. As you are probably poised to inform us, I'll go ahead and stipulate that it cannot be considered as truth. However, let me say that Distaso has stated over and over to the jury, "don't take my word... check the testimony...have it read back to you....look at the evidence...etc. I don't doubt that it's in there and I will look it up if you doubt it. However, I want to read MG's closing today. I read a little last night and was totally unimpressed. I will never understand why the Peterson's retained him in the first place.

[thinkaboutit]

LOL! I'm a fast study. :read: I have to admit...you caught me this time....I believe I read this about the dog in Distaso's closing argument. As you are probably poised to inform us, I'll go ahead and stipulate that it cannot be considered as truth. However, let me say that Distaso has stated over and over to the jury, "don't take my word... check the testimony...have it read back to you....look at the evidence...etc. I don't doubt that it's in there and I will look it up if you doubt it. However, I want to read MG's closing today. I read a little last night and was totally unimpressed. I will never understand why the Peterson's retained him in the first place.

No - I don't trust Distaso - when I get a chance I'll check the testimony. Thanks.

[accordn2me]

Honestly, the more I read about the dogs, the more I think this was "junk science." Especially in light of another poster who pointed out that dogs didn't find Jessica Lundsford whose body was just a few yards from her home.

I don't know how the dog testimony came across to the jurors in this case. Frankly, from what little I've read so far, I'd discount it entirely.

On the other hand, the hair found on the pliers found in Scott's boat...can't ignore that.:no:

[TuscanDreams]

OBJECTION! #12. RS did not scent his dog in the vegetation where the other dog scented Laci and where experts said the scent would have lingered. RS' testified his dog did not scent Laci on the concrete boat ramp.

How about we state ALL the "facts" about the dogs, or none at all?

Ok- could you list all of those facts so I can add them?

[Anne2719]

How about:

10. No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on Scott’s truck bed or the umbrellas in the truck bed, inside the Greenlee tool box, in the boat, or on the boat cover.

Remove 11 and 12.

[accordn2me]

Ok- could you list all of those facts so I can add them?

My last post indicates what I think about the dog testimony. Here's what I've found out:

There are many scent theories.
There are many different ways of training a dog.
Trailing dogs look for live people. (Laci was probably dead when she was in the truck, boat, at the marina, etc.)

I can go on.

The dog "evidence" can not be agreed upon. If we are going to include any of it, let's include that Anderson's dog gave an end of trail indication at the pylon where Scott's boat was tied up while he parked the truck/trailer.

Do you want me to post the testimony about the hair in the pliers?

[accordn2me]

And had no golf clubs in the car.:seeya: Hey adnoid! glad you found this place. I always enjoy your wisdom & humor.

[accordn2me]

How about:

10. No trailing dog found Laci’s scent on Scott’s truck bed or the umbrellas in the truck bed, inside the Greenlee tool box, in the boat, or on the boat cover.

Remove 11 and 12.


Ok, if 11 is: "Trailing dogs scent for live people. See #1."

[accordn2me]

Adnoid,

If someone told you that there was a 112 to 1 chance (I haven't checked the numbers) that the hair found in the pliers that were found in Scott's boat was consistent with the mtchon. DNA of Laci, what would you think about that?

[Anne2719]

Adnoid,

If someone told you that there was a 112 to 1 chance (I haven't checked the numbers) that the hair found in the pliers that were found in Scott's boat was consistent with the mtchon. DNA of Laci, what would you think about that?
I thought someone said it was a 1-in-112 chance. I don't understand this whole hair thing. Can someone splain it to me?

The other thing is, even if it were proven to be Laci's hair beyond a shadow of a doubt, what does that mean? Since they lived together and she might've even used the pliers, does that hair really mean anything? Just asking.

[One2Snoop]

I thought someone said it was a 1-in-112 chance. I don't understand this whole hair thing. Can someone splain it to me?

The other thing is, even if it were proven to be Laci's hair beyond a shadow of a doubt, what does that mean? Since they lived together and she might've even used the pliers, does that hair really mean anything? Just asking.

I think it means everything. Laci's no longer here. So why were those pliers in the boat with a piece of Laci's hair stuck in them? How does one get a piece of their hair stuck in a pair of pliers? :shrug:

[concernedperson]

Especially a boat she knew nothing about. I believe Scott said it was a "surprise".

[Anne2719]

I think it means everything. Laci's no longer here. So why were those pliers in the boat with a piece of Laci's hair stuck in them? How does one get a piece of their hair stuck in a pair of pliers? :shrug:
Well, I would assume the pliers didn't come with the boat (at least I haven't heard that they did) and so probably came from the house. Laci might have used them in the house at some point. Am I missing something?

[One2Snoop]

Well, I would assume the pliers didn't come with the boat (at least I haven't heard that they did) and so probably came from the house. Laci might have used them in the house at some point. Am I missing something?

How would her hair get stuck in the pliers? The question is the piece of hair and how it got there.

[Lili007]

There were a good many people who attempted to profit or otherwise advantage themselves from the case's high-profile nature.

............SNIP

Geragos? :biggrin:

JMO.

[Anne2719]

How would her hair get stuck in the pliers? The question is the piece of hair and how it got there.
It surprises me the number of places I find my stray hairs. When they did the analysis of the hair, did they compare it to hairs from her hair brush? Wouldn't they be able to find nutrients, etc. (like when they do drug testing) to see if it was a recent hair? It just seems to me that if there was any evidence value to this hair, it would've closed the case on Scott. But it doesn't seem to have done so.

[One2Snoop]

It surprises me the number of places I find my stray hairs. When they did the analysis of the hair, did they compare it to hairs from her hair brush? Wouldn't they be able to find nutrients, etc. (like when they do drug testing) to see if it was a recent hair? It just seems to me that if there was any evidence value to this hair, it would've closed the case on Scott. But it doesn't seem to have done so.

Agreed - so it doesn't belong on the common ground list. Thanks.

[Lili007]

Lili - I'd say some of your points are a little exaggerated and/or inaccurate.

I'm not going to address all of the exaggerations/and or inaccuracies - since this is not the thread for it - but two of them I can't help but correct.

Scott's wife is missing. The police are questioning him on where he was fishing, what he was fishing for, and what kind of bait he was using. Let's look at it from an innocent perspective for just one moment....even an innocent man would have been frustrated - and throwing a flashlight onto the ground is not violence - nor does it show a temper - it shows frustration - period.

And aaah - yes - the famous burnt chicken testimony. Scott slammed down the barbecue pit lid because he was angry about burning the chicken. Wasn't it established that the barbecue pit had no lid?

I wish you WOULD point out all the inaccuracies in my post - then we'd all know, instead of just wondering! :shrug:

About the BBQ lid - NO, it was NOT established that there was no lid.

http://www.scottisinnocent.com/Timelines/Trial%20Timelines/Trial%20Week%20Two%20June%206-12.htm

I guess it's a question of who you believe. Kemple, or Scott. Let's see.... Kemple or Scott.... My money's on Kemple. Scott has LIED too many times to too many people. :biggrin:

JMO.

[Wudge]

It surprises me the number of places I find my stray hairs. When they did the analysis of the hair, did they compare it to hairs from her hair brush? Wouldn't they be able to find nutrients, etc. (like when they do drug testing) to see if it was a recent hair? It just seems to me that if there was any evidence value to this hair, it would've closed the case on Scott. But it doesn't seem to have done so.


The FBI lab ran the analyses, but the hair did not have a root, so nuclear DNA testing could not be done. The best the lab could say is that it was 112-1 (less than 1% chance) against it being Laci's hair.

Obviously, the hair could be used to support a finding of guilt against Scott.

[Lili007]

I think it means everything. Laci's no longer here. So why were those pliers in the boat with a piece of Laci's hair stuck in them? How does one get a piece of their hair stuck in a pair of pliers? :shrug:

Excellent question!

Particularly when Laci's hair is stuck in the pliers found in the secret boat, and she surfaces dead and limbless (apologies for the graphic description) together with her unborn son in the place where her loving husband went "fishing" on the day she "disappeared".

[concernedperson]

It surprises me the number of places I find my stray hairs. When they did the analysis of the hair, did they compare it to hairs from her hair brush? Wouldn't they be able to find nutrients, etc. (like when they do drug testing) to see if it was a recent hair? It just seems to me that if there was any evidence value to this hair, it would've closed the case on Scott. But it doesn't seem to have done so.

IIRC, the hair was quite long and wound around the pliers. Since it was found in the boat and Laci was found in the bay without a head and other extremities it calls attention to the fact that the pliers were used for serious tying. Wire for tying concrete blocks etc. The body was disarticulated and evidence suggested that she was tied to something.

[Wudge]

Excellent question!

Particularly when Laci's hair is stuck in the pliers found in the secret boat, and she surfaces dead and limbless (apologies for the graphic description) together with her unborn son in the place where her loving husband went "fishing" on the day she "disappeared".

Distaso accepted without issue the data from the FBI's database. It's 112-1 against the hair being Laci's hair.

[Lili007]

The FBI lab ran the analyses, but the hair did not have a root, so nuclear DNA testing could not be done. The best the lab could say is that it was 112-1 (less than 1% chance) against it being Laci's hair.

Obviously, the hair could be used to support a finding of guilt against Scott.


Mitochondrial DNA.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/july1999/dnaf2.htm

Pointing to the matrilineal link to Sharon Rocha. So whose hair, if not Laci's?

[Lili007]

Distaso accepted without issue the data from the FBI's database. It's 112-1 against the hair being Laci's hair.


Right. Of course. :rolleyes:

[cookiewench]

Can we all agree that it's very odd for someone to decide (in the middle of winter, on Christmas eve no less) to take some outside umbrellas to a warehouse because it's going to rain?

[Lili007]

Can we all agree that it's very odd for someone to decide (in the middle of winter, on Christmas eve no less) to take some outside umbrellas to a warehouse because it's going to rain?

From my perspective, a resounding YES. And then take a boat to "fish" 90 miles away, in the rain as well.

[Wudge]

Can we all agree that it's very odd for someone to decide (in the middle of winter, on Christmas eve no less) to take some outside umbrellas to a warehouse because it's going to rain?

As testified to by ?

[cookiewench]

As testified to by ?

Is this the "as testified to" thread or the "things we can agree on" thread?

Scott didn't testify to anything at all - but he did state, publicly, that he decided to take some outside umbrellas to his warehouse on Christmas eve - because it was raining.

[One2Snoop]

Is this the "as testified to" thread or the "things we can agree on" thread?

Scott didn't testify to anything at all - but he did state, publicly, that he decided to take some outside umbrellas to his warehouse on Christmas eve - because it was raining.

I can agree with that.

[accordn2me]

From the transcripts:

David Harris: Your findings in this particular case is the defendant's hair is excluded as being the contributor for that hair in the pliers?

Karen Korsberg: Correct.

David Harris: But the questioned hair, the Q1, the hair from the pliers was consistent with the hairs from the hairbrush of Laci Peterson?

Karen Korsberg: That's correct.

http://scottisinnocent.com/Timelines/Trial%20Transcripts/Trial%20Karen%20Korsberg.htmThank you for sounding in on this, adnoid.

I barely scraped by my logic class in college. When I read a statement like this: "The best the lab could say is that it was 112-1 (less than 1% chance) against it being Laci's hair." My mind goes, hmmmm...turned around that sounds like it was more than a 99% chance for it being Laci's hair. :shrug:

[thinkaboutit]

And had no golf clubs in the car.

Last time I checked, golf courses provided clubs to rent.

[thinkaboutit]

Geragos? :biggrin:

JMO.

The list from the other side is much longer.

[Beebee]

This is the "Common Ground" thread. No dispute Scott had a lot of stuff in his car - but no golf clubs - then?

Whether or not a specific course rents clubs would be a different point, which might be good to pursue.

I've golfed since I was 16 and always use my own clubs, but I know some pro shops will let you use their clubs. I do my best with my own, though.

Scott called his brother in the early morning and said he wouldn't be joining them for golf. He thought the media was following him (again) and didn't want the media distorting the get together.
The call was taped. It's exhibit D8X.
So he wasn't planning to golf afterall. He did however want to try and meet up with them, which is why he headed there around the time they were to be finishing up.

[cookiewench]

Scott called his brother in the early morning and said he wouldn't be joining them for golf. He thought the media was following him (again) and didn't want the media distorting the get together.
The call was taped. It's exhibit D8X.
So he wasn't planning to golf afterall. He did however want to try and meet up with them, which is why he headed there around the time they were to be finishing up.

That call didn't happen til shortly before Scott was picked up by LE, and while he was zooming around trying to lose "the media".

He was supposed to be on his way to the golf course when he made that call. Why would he leave the house without his clubs, if his sole purpose in leaving the house was to go golfing?

And what is there that could be "distorted" about a man going to play golf right after his wife and baby's bodies have most likely been found?

[thinkaboutit]

I wish you WOULD point out all the inaccuracies in my post - then we'd all know, instead of just wondering! :shrug:

About the BBQ lid - NO, it was NOT established that there was no lid.

http://www.scottisinnocent.com/Timelines/Trial%20Timelines/Trial%20Week%20Two%20June%206-12.htm

I guess it's a question of who you believe. Kemple, or Scott. Let's see.... Kemple or Scott.... My money's on Kemple. Scott has LIED too many times to too many people. :biggrin:

JMO.

Harvey Kemple himself testified that the only reason he brought up the burnt chicken incident was because he was mad when he THOUGHT Scott was going to play golf - and he said Scott was more upset over burnt chicken than he was about his missing wife.

I believe it was you (or maybe it was someone else) that used this incident and the throwing down of the flashlight to say they were signs of a temper. Everyone gets mad sometimes. Are you honestly going to tell me that you've never thrown something - never slammed anything? It does not mean Scott had a temper. And there was plenty of testimony to the fact that Scott WAS upset about Laci being missing.

Better not put your money on Kemple. There are issues with Kemple's credibility. He testified that someone with the last name of Tobin and someone named Stephanie -were friends of his that worked at the Del Rio Country Club and they told him that Scott had been golfing there. When Grogan went to check it out - there was no one named Stephanie that worked there and Mr. Tobin said he was not aware of Scott having golfed there.

HARRIS: All right. You testified that, or excuse me, I'm sorry. You told the investigator that you had followed Scott to the country club, the Del Rio Country Club; is that correct?

KEMPLE: Yes.

HARRIS: And you told them that you knew he was a golfer?

KEMPLE: Yes.

HARRIS: And that, in fact, you had friends at the Del Rio Country Club and these friends had actually called you and told you that Scott had been showing up at the country club; is that correct?

KEMPLE: No one specifically called me. It was in person that I had heard it.

HARRIS: Okay. Did you give the names of these friends to the investigators so they could follow-up?

KEMPLE: I wasn't asked.

HARRIS: You weren't asked that question?

KEMPLE: No.

HARRIS: The investigators never bothered to find out whether or not they could back up this story?

DISTASO: Objection. It's argumentative.

KEMPLE: I wasn't asked.

JUDGE: The answer can go out. Sustained. Next question.

HARRIS: Could you tell us who these friends are?

KEMPLE: Yes.

HARRIS: I'm sorry?

KEMPLE: Yes, I could.

HARRIS: Okay. Could you please give me the names?

KEMPLE: Dennis Tobin, for one.

HARRIS: I'm sorry, what was the name?

KEMPLE: Dennis Tobin.

HARRIS: Hogan?

KEMPLE: Tobin, T-O-B-I-N.

HARRIS: And who else?

KEMPLE: I'm trying to think. I can't think of a last name right off the top of my head, but a young lady by the name of Stephanie that works at the golf course.

HARRIS: And you don't, you just know Stephanie, do you know,

KEMPLE: I can't think.

HARRIS: I'm sorry. Overlapping.

JUDGE: She works at the golf course.

HARRIS: We're going to get yelled at again. Do you know where she works at the golf course?

KEMPLE: No, I don't. I think she is part of the pro shop, or something like that, you know, but I...


GERAGOS: How about Harvey Kemple talking about the golf course. The, whatever the name of that golf course is, testified here that six months later he had this epiphany basically, did you guys send somebody out to the country club to check out what he said?

GROGAN: About, yeah, there was a statement about Scott golfing there or something to that effect, is that right?

GERAGOS: Right. And then he mentioned somebody by the name of Stephanie or something like that so you send somebody out there to check up on this information, right?

GROGAN: That's correct.

GERAGOS: It turns out it was his long time friend, Mr. Tobin, who he's known since third grade, right?

GROGAN: That was one of the people that was contacted and I don't think there was a Stephanie that we could find.

GERAGOS: Right. So the name Stephanie that Harvey Kemple testified to this jury at the country club that would back up his memory, there was no Stephanie that even worked at the country club, correct?

GROGAN: There's no Stephanie that works there.

GERAGOS: And the guy that he'd grown up with since grade school told him said, no, Scott wasn't over here golfing, right?

GROGAN: Yeah, he said that he wasn't aware of that.



I also find it suspicious that for six months Kemple never called the police to tell them that Scott told him he was golfing on the 24th. Not once. He testified he told all of his friends and family - but never called the police to tell them that?

[thinkaboutit]

That call didn't happen til shortly before Scott was picked up by LE, and while he was zooming around trying to lose "the media".

He was supposed to be on his way to the golf course when he made that call. Why would he leave the house without his clubs, if his sole purpose in leaving the house was to go golfing?

And what is there that could be "distorted" about a man going to play golf right after his wife and baby's bodies have most likely been found?

You are wrong - that call took place at 7:03 a.m. - Scott was not arrested until 4 hours later.

[thinkaboutit]

How about this one for the list:

Lydell Wall, prosecution witness, testified that it would have been possible to determine who was on the home computer at 8:45 a.m. on the 24th, however he was never asked to do so.

[Beebee]

I'll take that as agreement he had no clubs in the car.

Can we also agree he didn't have tennis rackets in the car, or a bowling ball?

Of course, he was driving a small red mercedes, not much room especially when you are pretty much living between places and out of your car.

My guess is Scott was going to wait inside at the club for his dad and brothers where he could have a few drinks without the media taking pictures.

He knew he wouldn't be out on the greens, hence the early call to his brother.

[Beebee]

[QUOTE=cookiewench;8835197]He was supposed to be on his way to the golf course when he made that call. Why would he leave the house without his clubs, if his sole purpose in leaving the house was to go golfing?
QUOTE]

He got his brothers license to use at the club. He knew he wouldn't be on the greens playing. JMO

[JustMyOpinion]

Scott called his brother in the early morning and said he wouldn't be joining them for golf. He thought the media was following him (again) and didn't want the media distorting the get together.
The call was taped. It's exhibit D8X.
So he wasn't planning to golf afterall. He did however want to try and meet up with them, which is why he headed there around the time they were to be finishing up.

I don't know how anyone could claim to know what Scott "thought" or what he "wanted", since he did not choose to take the stand and offer his own testimony. I agree with you that from the evidence ( no golf clubs in vehicle) it doesn't appear Scott was planning to golf. The explanation he gave a friend ( per testimony) about how his hair turned orange was not credible, IMO. I didn't find Jackie's testimony about the cash believable either.