Anthony A Shore

[shill]

This is an interesting thread posted at WebSleuths.
I can't believe it's there, since it is the opposite of everything I was reading there.

WS thread link (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36551)

[andU]

Makes me wonder how many others this MO might match? I hope LE has looked at this guy for the Ramsey case, at least.

[SnarkyCow]

VERY INTERESTING READING SHILL ~ thanks for the link! I'd be very interested to see if this man was ever questioned in the JBR murder & if he was investigated thoroughly. I got chills when reading that thread ~ another door opening? What I have to wonder is why no one has made this connection before? Surely someone had to know about this guy. We know LE went to Atlanta & investigated there. Wonder if they did the same in Texas?

[Sharon]

Wow, that is truely what I imagined the guy would be like. Someone who did this sort of thing many times, but never got caught, leaving behind him ruined lives & no answers.

[zippo]

Hi All, this is my first post here, although I have been lurking for months.

I came here as RDI, but I must say the IDIs do a much better job of making their case using logic and rational thought (there are definitely some exceptions to that LOL).

I'm still not convinced but Shill, this is very interesting.

[andU]

Welcome Zippo. Your views, thoughts and opinions are welcome. Would you mind sharing what has you leaning toward IDI?

[zippo]

Welcome Zippo. Your views, thoughts and opinions are welcome. Would you mind sharing what has you leaning toward IDI?



Sorry, I think you may have misunderstood. I LEAN towards RDI. I used to be 100% RDI but after lurking here for some months I have waivered a bit and consider myself more "undecided" now.

The reason I am no longer 100% RDI is because of my readings on this forum. I feel the IDI's here make more intelligent arguements. They seem less biased and more open minded to me. However, still in the back of my mind I keep going back to my original position which is RDI. jmho

Thank you for the welcome.

[andU]

I didn't mean to imply that you were only welcome if you were IDI-LoL! You are welcome no matter what your stance is.

[Athena]

Shill,

Interesting discussion -- guess that puts to rest that nothing like this has ever occurred before.

Welcome Zippo - I agree with AndU -- doesn't matter if RDI, IDI, or FS. :)

Back to work before I get fired.

[bullmoose]

Sorry, I think you may have misunderstood. I LEAN towards RDI. I used to be 100% RDI but after lurking here for some months I have waivered a bit and consider myself more "undecided" now.

The reason I am no longer 100% RDI is because of my readings on this forum. I feel the IDI's here make more intelligent arguements. They seem less biased and more open minded to me. However, still in the back of my mind I keep going back to my original position which is RDI. jmho

Thank you for the welcome.Let me throw my two cents worth in hereand welcome you, zippo, RDI,IDI,or whatever. I'm looking foward to your posts.:seeya:

[bullmoose]

This is an interesting thread posted at WebSleuths.
I can't believe it's there, since it is the opposite of everything I was reading there.

WS thread link (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36551) This is a much more promising lead, I think than Karr. It may all be just coincidence, but the SBTC match is an eyecatcher, to say the least. Good one , Shill.:beer:

[thewhitewitch1]

This is a much more promising lead, I think than Karr. It may all be just coincidence, but the SBTC match is an eyecatcher, to say the least. Good one , Shill.:beer:


Why would someone leave such as obvious clue, though?
Hasn't the JB DNA been checked with all of the DNA currently in CODIS? I know this guy wasn't caught until a year or so after her death, but I thought the DNA was compared with everything in CODIS before and after.
I also find it hard to believe that with all of the PIs the Ramseys have hired through the years that they would not have come across this guy...yet some internet poster managed to do it. :confused:

[andU]

Come on WW, it is something new to discuss. But, you are probably correct about the CODIS. I would think once entered it would be tested, as a matter of fact, I believe the one hit that they got had been overlooked for like 5 years for one of the murders that he admitted to.

[bullmoose]

Why would someone leave such as obvious clue, though?
Hasn't the JB DNA been checked with all of the DNA currently in CODIS? I know this guy wasn't caught until a year or so after her death, but I thought the DNA was compared with everything in CODIS before and after.
I also find it hard to believe that with all of the PIs the Ramseys have hired through the years that they would not have come across this guy...yet some internet poster managed to do it. :confused:Don't give law enforcement too much credit for their ability to put evidence from widely separated places together. Whe Duncan was caught in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho at a Denny's at 3AM with his sole surviving victim Shasta Groene and he got locked up, he told LE about murders, with an amazing range of MO's that he committed around the country. I doubt much will ever be heard about them, as he won't be tried for them; but at least in a number of cases, when his fingerprints and/or DNA were compared to what was found on duct tape and other articles found with skeletal remains, they matched. His prints were in federal registries as a sexual predater, apparently no one checked. Just weeks before the now-infamous Groene murders, he sexually attacked two boys in Minnesota in the daytime, was caught and released on a whopping 15,000 dollar bond. He then went west on I-90 to Coeur D'Alene and real infamy; why was he not given a realistic bond, as the convicted sex predater felon that he was and is? Simple, he didn't tell the cops about his record or convictions and nobody checked the registry. Cops are very human and they tend to be lazy; I would like to think that this fellow in Texas matches the DNA but he probably doesn't. But if he did it wouldn't surprise me much. :(

[shill]

Roshamon and NP are members at WS, they could have brought this thread over here.
I only lurk over there for some cheap laughs from reading the Ramsey lynch mob comments and their pandering back patting. They must have driven the IDI away with their pow-wows before this subject came up, because there are a lot of posters names I have never seen there previously.
I was very surprised to see and read poster comments that were constructive there. I have a new opinion of that site.

[thewhitewitch1]

True...it's something new to discuss but probably not for long.
Here is a nice little piece on Anthony Allen Shore:

http://www.houston-press.com/2004-07-29/news/the-killer-next-door/1

First of all, most, if not all of his victims were of hispanic origin.
Second, all of the murders were in Texas.
Third, none involved a kidnapping note and all of the bodies were dumped.
Fourth, all but one were raped in the traditional sense of the word.
Fifth, he confessed to all 4 murders and loved to read about them in the paper. If he had killed JonBenet, I am sure he would have confessed and enjoyed the notariety that came with it. What would he have to lose? He is already on death row and has asked to be executed.
Six, the only similarities to JBs murder was the garroting. None of his victims were covered in a blanket, none were found in their own home, most (if not all) were found partially nude, and he knew all of the victims from some place or another.
Seven, there is no indication that he was ever in Boulder or even knew the Ramseys.
The possibility that he murdered JB is a real long shot. IMO

[Athena]

True...it's something new to discuss but probably not for long.
Here is a nice little piece on Anthony Allen Shore:

http://www.houston-press.com/2004-07-29/news/the-killer-next-door/1

First of all, most, if not all of his victims were of hispanic origin.
Second, all of the murders were in Texas.
Third, none involved a kidnapping note and all of the bodies were dumped.
Fourth, all but one were raped in the traditional sense of the word.
Fifth, he confessed to all 4 murders and loved to read about them in the paper. If he had killed JonBenet, I am sure he would have confessed and enjoyed the notariety that came with it. What would he have to lose? He is already on death row and has asked to be executed.
Six, the only similarities to JBs murder was the garroting. None of his victims were covered in a blanket, none were found in their own home, most (if not all) were found partially nude, and he knew all of the victims from some place or another.
Seven, there is no indication that he was ever in Boulder or even knew the Ramseys.
The possibility that he murdered JB is a real long shot. IMO

I just skimmed the article and there are some discrepancies v what you say above which I have posted from the article below. Also we don't know if any of his crimes were committed outside of Texas because it's not true he confessed - as investigators believe there are more victims. JonBenet also participated in a pageant in Houston TX. You could be right that this may be a long-shot but I believe as DNA technology advances there will be more suspects found just as in this case.

Also I'm not sure if everyone is aware of the massive DNA backlog in this country. First there are only 23 states that require felons to submit DNA unless it is a sex crime so every criminals' DNA is NOT in CODIS. EVERY state has thousands of cases of DNA that have NEVER been tested either. They just can't keep up. It is a major issue re: funding for DNA as well. Just do a google search for 'US DNA Backlog" and you will find that what I have stated is no exaggeration. It is totally mind boggling.

And when an intruder raped a 14-year-old girl in her home a year later, police didn't connect that either.

Billingsley concedes that "a majority of investigators" think there are more victims. But, if so, why wouldn't Shore admit to them? "We can only kill him so many times," Billingsley says. "Why not admit to all of them?"

Billingsley believes Shore wants to be the center of attention. After all, he says, he called to report Sanchez's body nine years ago. He seems to enjoy the questioning. "He's got this attention now, and he can keep us hanging."

Sitting in his Southwestern-themed kitchen in Clear Lake Shores, Rob Shore says he believes in the death penalty; he doesn't think his son deserves an exemption. "Fair is fair, and right is right," Rob says simply.

He didn't deny anything, but he didn't admit the murders, either. "I know I'm forgiven," he said.

He doesn't talk about guilt. He never says he's sorry. "Most of what he writes about," she says, "is his book."

[thewhitewitch1]

I just skimmed the article and there are some discrepancies v what you say above which I have posted from the article below. Also we don't know if any of his crimes were committed outside of Texas because it's not true he confessed - as investigators believe there are more victims. JonBenet also participated in a pageant in Houston TX. You could be right that this may be a long-shot but I believe as DNA technology advances there will be more suspects found just as in this case.

Also I'm not sure if everyone is aware of the massive DNA backlog in this country. First there are only 23 states that require felons to submit DNA unless it is a sex crime so every criminals' DNA is NOT in CODIS. EVERY state has thousands of cases of DNA that have NEVER been tested either. They just can't keep up. It is a major issue re: funding for DNA as well. Just do a google search for 'US DNA Backlog" and you will find that what I have stated is no exaggeration. It is totally mind boggling.

And when an intruder raped a 14-year-old girl in her home a year later, police didn't connect that either.

Billingsley concedes that "a majority of investigators" think there are more victims. But, if so, why wouldn't Shore admit to them? "We can only kill him so many times," Billingsley says. "Why not admit to all of them?"

Billingsley believes Shore wants to be the center of attention. After all, he says, he called to report Sanchez's body nine years ago. He seems to enjoy the questioning. "He's got this attention now, and he can keep us hanging."

Sitting in his Southwestern-themed kitchen in Clear Lake Shores, Rob Shore says he believes in the death penalty; he doesn't think his son deserves an exemption. "Fair is fair, and right is right," Rob says simply.

He didn't deny anything, but he didn't admit the murders, either. "I know I'm forgiven," he said.

He doesn't talk about guilt. He never says he's sorry. "Most of what he writes about," she says, "is his book."


Athena, that was only one of many articles I read today about this guy. Do a search and you will see that he did, in fact, confess to all 4 murders. He may not have come out right and confessed to his family but he confessed to authorities.

[zippo]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome! I've been reading thru the prior threads and they are eye-opening. A lot of intelligent posters here with very different points of view. I am glad that Snarky started this thread because there was also a lot of mud-slinging that I agree is counter-productive. I am glad to have found a forum with some balance. :)

Z

[zippo]

I just skimmed the article and there are some discrepancies v what you say above which I have posted from the article below. Also we don't know if any of his crimes were committed outside of Texas because it's not true he confessed - as investigators believe there are more victims. JonBenet also participated in a pageant in Houston TX. You could be right that this may be a long-shot but I believe as DNA technology advances there will be more suspects found just as in this case.

Also I'm not sure if everyone is aware of the massive DNA backlog in this country. First there are only 23 states that require felons to submit DNA unless it is a sex crime so every criminals' DNA is NOT in CODIS. EVERY state has thousands of cases of DNA that have NEVER been tested either. They just can't keep up. It is a major issue re: funding for DNA as well. Just do a google search for 'US DNA Backlog" and you will find that what I have stated is no exaggeration. It is totally mind boggling.

And when an intruder raped a 14-year-old girl in her home a year later, police didn't connect that either.

Billingsley concedes that "a majority of investigators" think there are more victims. But, if so, why wouldn't Shore admit to them? "We can only kill him so many times," Billingsley says. "Why not admit to all of them?"

Billingsley believes Shore wants to be the center of attention. After all, he says, he called to report Sanchez's body nine years ago. He seems to enjoy the questioning. "He's got this attention now, and he can keep us hanging."

Sitting in his Southwestern-themed kitchen in Clear Lake Shores, Rob Shore says he believes in the death penalty; he doesn't think his son deserves an exemption. "Fair is fair, and right is right," Rob says simply.

He didn't deny anything, but he didn't admit the murders, either. "I know I'm forgiven," he said.

He doesn't talk about guilt. He never says he's sorry. "Most of what he writes about," she says, "is his book."

Athena, you are one of the posters 'on the other side of the fence' whose posts I greatly respect. When reading your message it reminded me of some info I have read on Ted Bundy. He confessed to 'I forget how many' murders, but on the eve of his execution, he said that if Florida would delay the execution he would tell about even MORE murders he committed.

Also the case that caused my addiction to true crime was the murder of Adam Walsh. Lately I have been reading about how Jeffery Dahmer may have been involved! This shocked me because I have seen Jeffery Dahmer interviewed on numerous occassions and I believed that he was being straight up when he said he told Law enforcement about every crime he committed. It is still up in the air as whether or not he was involved in the Walsh murder, but I heard on the radio today that John Walsh believes this theory which I find interesting.

Anyway, I am in no way convinced that this Shore character had anything to do with the JBR murder, but because of the aforementioned issues, I will not rule it out.

Z

[Athena]

Oh gosh Z. I did not know that Dahmer may be suspected in Adam Walsh's murder and if his dad believes the theory .... wow. Nah - I don't believe these guys admit everything. I think they even take pleasure in thinking "I know something you don't" Sickos.

There's definitely some holes in thinking that Shore did it ... but there is hope that with all of this DNA backlog someone will turn up. If you do the search and read some of the backlog articles they are saying it is already up to 2010 before they think they can catch up and imagine how many cases will add to that before now and then. :eek:

[zippo]

Hi guys, I'm new here and haven't quite figured out the 'edit feature'. Anyway I meant to say that John Walsh does not think that Dahmer killed his son, but says it is still a possiblility.

Also I meant to say that I am glad Snarky started the OTHER thread! LOL

Sorry for all my rookie screw ups!

Z

[Athena]

Hi guys, I'm new here and haven't quite figured out the 'edit feature'. Anyway I meant to say that John Walsh does not think that Dahmer killed his son, but says it is still a possiblility.

Also I meant to say that I am glad Snarky started the OTHER thread! LOL

Sorry for all my rookie screw ups!

Z

Hahaha! Not too worry - I know how the edit feature works and still mess up. :)

[bullmoose]

Hi guys, I'm new here and haven't quite figured out the 'edit feature'. Anyway I meant to say that John Walsh does not think that Dahmer killed his son, but says it is still a possiblility.

Also I meant to say that I am glad Snarky started the OTHER thread! LOL

Sorry for all my rookie screw ups!

ZI think they did a segment or a whole show on Geraldo about the Dahmer angle; at the time of the Walsh murder, dahmer lived and worked at a sandwhich shop just miles from where the boy was abducted. He drove a delivery van that resembled the van Adam Walsh was taken in; and several people in the mall saw a suspicious man that they later identified as Dahmer as being in the mall that day.The police never followed up on their sightings,and it was 10 years later when Dahmer was caught in Milwaukee that they identified him,when they saw his picure on TV. And Dahmer had a thing about the heads of his victims; Adam's was never found. John Walsh is doubtful because a monster of a man was believed to be the killer. But there sure were a heck of a lot of coincidences going on if it was a coincidence about Dahmer being in that area at the same time frame.:confused:

[aussiesheila]

Hi guys, I'm new here and haven't quite figured out the 'edit feature'. Anyway I meant to say that John Walsh does not think that Dahmer killed his son, but says it is still a possiblility.

Also I meant to say that I am glad Snarky started the OTHER thread! LOL

Sorry for all my rookie screw ups!

ZNeither have we zippo, that's why you'll come across a lot of frantic tack-on posts to the post just before it. It says you have 5 minutes to edit, but don't you believe it, you don't even get that. It's all fun and games here.

[Kor]

That's interesting about Shore, but I expected JB's murderer is more of someone the Ramsey or JB already knew, without prior serious criminal history in police's file. My top suspects in my list whom are; Linda the housekeeper or someone in her circle like her husband and one of children, one of teachers or staffs at JB's school, someone who worked at JB's pageant or one of pageants' parents or relatives, JB's photographer or someone in his circle, the neighbor couple who heard JB's scream got me suspicion about them, and one of John Andrew's friends who was young that time.

If the murder was done by a pedophile, then I believe the killer's character would be a lot similar to Mark Karr, as sissy, girly attitudes, which explains the rhythm in the note, tidy up the evidences of him/herself on scene, by wiping fingerprints off batteries, and the killer's youth that time base on the lines from movies and grammars, probably between 18 to 28 years old, probably first time sex assault on a child, since the killer rather wrote lengthy note than an expert criminal would.

If the murder was done by a vengeance, then it would be more difficult to figure out who, it could be anyone with extreme of inner prejudices and abhorrence against one or more members of Ramsey’s. Possible someone who worked at John’s company, those neighbor couple who claimed heard JB’s scream, and Linda the housekeeper or someone in her circle.

Shore seems too macho, manly, that is unlikely he was the one who wrote the note except for the SBTC part. Maybe he had a queer friend or one of his girlfriend/wife did the note thing. I don’t know but I do encourage FBI to excavate any information about him out in any means on finding the connections to JB’s murder case. This case is one of most well known and grabbed nationwide attentions through media, so I am pretty sure the killer is out there hiding and being very careful about him/herself. I expect the killer has some reasons to be ashamed, since the killer didn't do what Mark Karr did, enjoyed nationwide attention when he announced everybody that he is a (true) pedophile and (falsify being) JB's murderer. IMO

[Athena]

Athena, that was only one of many articles I read today about this guy. Do a search and you will see that he did, in fact, confess to all 4 murders. He may not have come out right and confessed to his family but he confessed to authorities.

I think there is a misunderstanding by you of what I meant TWW. I did not say he did not confess to the 4 murders, what I said was investigators believe he DID NOT CONFESS TO ALL OF THE MURDERS HE MAY HAVE COMMITTED (CAPS ARE MEANT FOR EMPHASIS - NOT YELLING) which means there may be more than the 4 he DID confess to.

[thewhitewitch1]

I think there is a misunderstanding by you of what I meant TWW. I did not say he did not confess to the 4 murders, what I said was investigators believe he DID NOT CONFESS TO ALL OF THE MURDERS HE MAY HAVE COMMITTED (CAPS ARE MEANT FOR EMPHASIS - NOT YELLING) which means there may be more than the 4 he DID confess to.


I know this but they were only speculating that he may have commited more.
As I said (and they also said, I believe), what does he have to lose by confessing more, if he did kill more women? He is already on Death Row and wants to be executed. There is no reason for him to hold anything back.

[Athena]

I know this but they were only speculating that he may have commited more.
As I said (and they also said, I believe), what does he have to lose by confessing more, if he did kill more women? He is already on Death Row and wants to be executed. There is no reason for him to hold anything back.

Power; playing with people's minds'; a feeling of being one-up. Has nothing to do with him having something to lose. I can't think of another way to explain it. Most killers who commit crimes like this get a feeling of being superior and all-powerful.

[bullmoose]

Power; playing with people's minds'; a feeling of being one-up. Has nothing to do with him having something to lose. I can't think of another way to explain it. Most killers who commit crimes like this get a feeling of being superior and all-powerful. Its a matter of control for creatures like this. Nobody that had anything to do with Bundy would state any absolute number, mainly I've read estimates of 29 to 33 admitted victims; I 've read speculations that it was over 100. Ted offered to help catch the Green River Killer with his insights on his likely behavior while he was on Florida's death row; some of the ideas were very good, as they were part of Teds MO. The detectives were shocked at some of his suggestions; one was to stake out any fresh body with hidden cops, if a fairly fresh body was found dumped; he stated that the killer would often revisit victims and have sex with their remains, which turned out to be true in Gary Ridgway's case. How did Ted know this? Easy, he did it too. But the real reason he wanted to help the GRTF was he was jealous of the fame the guy was getting; also he was afraid that his own total of victims would be surpassed. Was it? When caught by old DNA tested by new procedures twenty years after leaving semen on an early victim, Ridgway made a deal to avoid the death penalty; he helped investigaters recover a number of bodies that would never have been found, and he confessed to 49 murders in King County, Washington. His claim that he only killed in King County seems ludicrus to most, but his total is unknowable to any but himself. It seems that serial killers derive power from the total control they exert over their victims, even after they kill them. One such creature named Yates that was caught in Spokane, Washington about 8 years ago, had one of his victims buried in a flowerbed outside his bedroom, next to the front door, literally ten feet from the door. And he had a wife and I think four kids living at home; nobody ever figured out how he could dig a grave next to the front door and not be noticed by family or neighbors. But he did.JMHO

[Athena]

Bullmoose:

LOL "control" is one of the words I was looking for and my mind just wouldn't go there. But that's it.

[zippo]

This is an interesting thread posted at WebSleuths.
I can't believe it's there, since it is the opposite of everything I was reading there.

WS thread link (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36551)

If this guy was killer of JB I am sure his dna would have been matched in the codis system.

[bullmoose]

If this guy was killer of JB I am sure his dna would have been matched in the codis system.It would make perfect sense for his DNA to be in the CODIS; I can only pray that it is. IMO

[Athena]

It would make perfect sense for his DNA to be in the CODIS; I can only pray that it is. IMO

I think it would be; that's how he was caught. What's frightening that I learned while doing research is that only 23 states actually put convicted felons' DNA into CODIS. They are all required to put DNA into CODIS only if the felon is a sexual offender. I don't perceive JBRs crime to necessarily to have been a sexual offender either so it is very possible that JBRs killer has committed other crimes or this was the only one but his DNA is not in CODIS. JR is aware of this and that is why in one of the recent interviews he did he said he was working with others to get this DNA reporting mandatory. JMO

[zippo]

It would make perfect sense for his DNA to be in the CODIS; I can only pray that it is. IMO


Don't you think that Team Ramsey would have checked this out? They are SEARCHING for someone to pin this crime on.

[shill]

I was watching 20/20 last night and they featured a women accused of killing her son by stabbing him to death with a knife from her kitchen. She was railroaded by the police who had decided 30 seconds into the investigation that she did it and shaped the case to fit their theory.
She claimed an IDI and she had wrestled with him before fleeing to the neighbors for help. Since LE didn't believe her they didn't collect fiber evidence or investigate the possibility.
It turns out that there is such a killer that enters a home, uses a knife from the home and exits with out a trace. A killer named Tommy Lynn Sells operated that way and later would claim and recant to be the killer of her son. But the point is that there are dark scary monsters that exist even if you can't prove they do until they get caught.

Quote from the CRIMELIBRARY;
True-crime author Diane Fanning, who wrote about Sells in "Through the Window," claimed that he killed "with no apparent motive and no common pattern."

Yet the evidence shows that Sells was a sexual predator. Many of his crimes included rape and sexual mutilation, and most of his murders began as deviant assaults, including the murder of Katy Harris.

It is true that Sells killed with many implements, including knives, guns, a baseball bat and various garrotes. And it may be true that some of his crimes were spontaneous rather than calculated.

But his sexual predatory urges became more acute over time, as adolescent girls and petite women—often lonely single mothers—became his victims of choice. His body of criminal work makes one pattern, one motive all too clear: Tommy Lynn Sells was a sexual psychopath who stalked, raped and murdered women and girls.

[shill]

And Sells is at the center of a wrongful-conviction allegation in Illinois.

Julie Rea-Harper was sentenced to 65 years in prison in 2002 following conviction by a jury for the 1997 stabbing death of her son, Joel Kirkpatrick, 10.

Prosecutors alleged that Rea-Harper killed the boy in her home in Lawrenceville, in downstate Illinois, after she lost custody of him to his father as a result of a contentious divorce.

In May 2004, the Center on Wrongful Convictions at Northwestern University Law School took up the cause, saying courts should grant a new trial because Sells wrote two coy letters indicating he may know something about the case. Others have joined in the call for a new trial for the woman, who has continued to proclaim her innocence.

Young Kirkpatrick was killed just two days before Stephanie Mahaney, and the murder scenes were less than 100 miles apart.

[andU]

Very interesting, Shill!