Helgoth & Gigax

[Sharon]

What about these two characters....between them they have motive (property despute with JR), means (one worked in the house) and not least Gigax was a convicted pedophile. They were both robbing homes together also.

Interesting!!!

[LindaA]

They are interesting. I came across a clip from an apparently British documentary or report about Helgoth on Youtube. That's where I heard the theory that the animal hairs found on JBR could have come from the wolf-dogs tht Gigax bred and Helgoth owned. I think there are too many coincidences here to dismiss them out of hand. The hairs, they said were of two colors, and the wolf-dogs were black and brown spotted.

I think it was White Witch who posted that Helgoth's suicide was set up to incriminate him. I wonder if the person who set him up, if, indeed, that is what happened, did so in because he knew Helgoth was guilty. ISn't the theory that Gigax did this? He would have a motive to deflect any suspicion away from himself.

[Jayelles]

What about these two characters....between them they have motive (property despute with JR), means (one worked in the house) and not least Gigax was a convicted pedophile. They were both robbing homes together also.

Interesting!!!

The only thing that is interesting about your post is in how you managed to cram so much misinformation into 2 sentences. This is one of the most erroneous posts I've seen for a long time.

I think you need to check you facts before accusing anyone of being a paedophile and of "robbing homes". In fact, you need to check your facts full stop. I'd also advise you to check libel laws and look up the Westmoreland vs John Doe aka Undrtheradar case to see how someone can take legal action againsr "anonymous" internet posters.

[Louisadelmar]

What about these two characters....between them they have motive (property despute with JR), means (one worked in the house) and not least Gigax was a convicted pedophile. They were both robbing homes together also.

Interesting!!!

Info on Helgoth and Gigax

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Acquaintance%20Intruder%20Theories

[Sharon]

The only thing that is interesting about your post is in how you managed to cram so much misinformation into 2 sentences. This is one of the most erroneous posts I've seen for a long time.

I think you need to check you facts before accusing anyone of being a paedophile and of "robbing homes". In fact, you need to check your facts full stop. I'd also advise you to check libel laws and look up the Westmoreland vs John Doe aka Undrtheradar case to see how someone can take legal action againsr "anonymous" internet posters.

Sorry, I read it on a link from one of the posters here from the thread about the Mc Santas/ Danish book.

I welcome being corrected when I have the facts wrong as I am really here to learn.

[Jayelles]

Info on Helgoth and Gigax

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Acquaintance%20Intruder%20Theories

Gigax has never been charged with paedophila, nor is he on any sex offender list (unlike the characters who took part in Tracey's appalling documentary). Nor was Gigax arrested for or charged with burglary during the year or so that he stayed in Boulder.

He has a criminal record consisting of several charges of assault which took place during drunken brawls. He has openly discussed the assault charge which is mentioned on the Wiki. He doesn't try to minimise it or blame anyone else. He was sent ot prison for three months and on his release, he moved to Indiana to start afresh. This all took place many months before JonBenet Ramsey's murder AND the midnight burglaries. He has remained in Indiana ever since and has been in very poor health for several years.

[andU]

Wasn't there some question about whether 'Boots' suicide was actually that?

[Sharon]

Maybe you should delete this thread if you feel it is misleading. I will be interested in researching some more & hopefully try to establish why the facts have been so distorted.

[Louisadelmar]

I don't think he's involved in JonBenet's killing and I thought it was wrong to publish his name on the internet; but he's also not exactly a stellar citizen.

http://www.westword.com/2006-10-12/news/made-for-each-other/6

[…]
Gigax offered to send Bennett sales receipts that proved he was in Indiana over Christmas 1996. He also had a dozen witnesses who'd seen him there on Christmas Day. As he sees it, the film mangles basic facts about him, his whereabouts and his criminal record to make him fit the part of a crazed ninja-stalker killer. Calling him a "convicted pedophile" is a bit misleading: After what he describes as a drunken and unconsummated encounter with a teenage babysitter 21 years ago, he was convicted of attempted sexual assault and served less than two years. Yes, he pleaded guilty in 1996 to a menacing charge over a fight in his trailer that ended with the stabbing of a neighbor, but he received probation and arranged to complete it in Indiana.
[…]

[Watching you]

The facts have been so distorted because Ramsey-paid detectives, a university professor, and certain forum owners and posters have distorted them.

The corruption runs deep in this case.

[Jayelles]

I don't think he's involved in JonBenet's killing and I thought it was wrong to publish his name on the internet; but he's also not exactly a stellar citizen.

http://www.westword.com/2006-10-12/news/made-for-each-other/6

[…]
Gigax offered to send Bennett sales receipts that proved he was in Indiana over Christmas 1996. He also had a dozen witnesses who'd seen him there on Christmas Day. As he sees it, the film mangles basic facts about him, his whereabouts and his criminal record to make him fit the part of a crazed ninja-stalker killer. Calling him a "convicted pedophile" is a bit misleading: After what he describes as a drunken and unconsummated encounter with a teenage babysitter 21 years ago, he was convicted of attempted sexual assault and served less than two years. Yes, he pleaded guilty in 1996 to a menacing charge over a fight in his trailer that ended with the stabbing of a neighbor, but he received probation and arranged to complete it in Indiana.
[…]

No-one is claiming Gigax is a stellar citizen. Gigax himself does not claim to be a stellar citizen. He's not in denial about his past at all. People who have met him or communicated with him are indeed struck by his brutal honesty about his past.

That shouldn't make him fair game for accusations of murder. He's been on the straight and narrow for years.

The people who published his name on the Internet did not falsely accuse him of murder. Mills and Tracey did that. They accused him or several murders, a sexual assault and some midnight burglaries and they published some documentation which made it easy to identify him. The documentation which was shown on the documentary could be looked up on an online database.

It is libel to falsely accuse someone of a crime. In a libel case, the person accused must only be identifiABLE as opposed to identifIED. The documentary makers made their accusations and said that Gigax has "disappeared". He hadn't. He was running a jewellery business on the Internet and if you tped his surname into Google, his website came up on the first page of hits - complete with phonenumbers and a valid e-mail address for him. The Ramsey detectives who took part in that documentary stated that it was a priority to "track him down" - don't they know how to use Google?

Gigax should never have been fingered as a suspect in the ramsey case - we even know now that whilst making his "Helgoth and Gigax did it" documentary, Michael Tracey believed that John mark Karr was the real killer.

Mills and Tracey didn't even bother to check if Gigax was living in Colorado at the time of the Ramsey murder. He wasn't - just as karr wasn't in Colorado either.

[Jayelles]

The facts have been so distorted because Ramsey-paid detectives, a university professor, and certain forum owners and posters have distorted them.

The corruption runs deep in this case.


You are absolutely correct. Gigax was simply a man minding his own business in a state far away from Colorado. Knowing that they couldn't make a solid case against Helgoth, the documentary makers and Ramsey paid PIs got talking to some low-life characters who knew Michael Helgoth and persuaded them to star in a tv show. They were asked if Michael Helgoth had any scary friends and thus Gigax suddenly became a prims suspect. They must have thought it was their really lucky day when it transpired that Gigax no longer lived in Boulder but they sure didn't make any effort to track him down and spoil a good programme. Instead they claimed he had "disappeared".

They didn't expect Gigax to be identified. DAvid Mills says it was one of the most embarassing moments in his career when that happened. IMO, they KNEW they didn't have a credible suspect. IMO, they probably KNEW where Gigax was and that he had moved their long before the murder, but there was money to be made from this documentary....

jameson claimed to have known about Gigax's website - are we to suppose that she kept that to herself knowing that San Augustin & co were trying to track him down as a priority?

[Louisadelmar]

We would not be using the name Gigax if it hadn't been outed. Did the documentary say "Gigax has "disappeared" "? According to the Westword article it was "Without naming the man". How did his name get out? "Although the producers had blacked out his name, they'd left the case file number and the man's date of birth clearly legible. Soon the amateur Ramsey sleuths on the Internet knew his name: John Steven Gigax" Sounds like Westword is saying it was the 'amateur sleuths" who let the name out of the bag.

The article also says "Mills is abjectly apologetic about the blunder. "We were determined not to identify him because he might well be innocent," he says. "It's one of the most embarrassing mistakes of my career. It was a piece of incompetence on my part, for which I am ashamed. It was a complete cock-up."

Perhaps he never should have been considered a suspect. But none of us would have ever known that he was if his name hadn't been hunted down and published.

You think it was fine to take a case number and birthday that was shown briefly and apparently not intentionally and publically name the person behind it. I wouldn't have done it. End of story.

[Jayelles]

We would not be using the name Gigax if it hadn't been outed. Did the documentary say "Gigax has "disappeared" "? According to the Westword article it was "Without naming the man". How did his name get out? "Although the producers had blacked out his name, they'd left the case file number and the man's date of birth clearly legible. Soon the amateur Ramsey sleuths on the Internet knew his name: John Steven Gigax" Sounds like Westword is saying it was the 'amateur sleuths" who let the name out of the bag.

The article also says "Mills is abjectly apologetic about the blunder. "We were determined not to identify him because he might well be innocent," he says. "It's one of the most embarrassing mistakes of my career. It was a piece of incompetence on my part, for which I am ashamed. It was a complete cock-up."

Perhaps he never should have been considered a suspect. But none of us would have ever known that he was if his name hadn't been hunted down and published.

You think it was fine to take a case number and birthday that was shown briefly and apparently not intentionally and publically name the person behind it. I wouldn't have done it. End of story.

Not intentionally? You think they didn't mean to show those documents? No, what they didn't mean to happen was for anyone to look up the case number on the Internet. This wasn't some live and hastily prepared tv show. This was a carefully filmed and scripted documentary which took months to make!

Regardless of whether they intended to screen the documentation or not, they did and he fact remains that they lied on the documentary. They lied about Gigax disappearing. That was an out and out lie. They also mislead viewers about the Ramsey PIs being the "investigators". That may have added credence to their theory, but these guys never worked on the official investigation.

Yep. I really believe you wouldn't have done it Tipper and there is no doubt that there are others like you who would have chosen NOT to expose the documentary for the complete fraud that it was - even if you DID know it was a fake.

ANYONE could have looked up that information and discovered who this mysterious "prime suspect" was. I know some hardened RSTs say they would not have but quite frankly, I don't believe them. This was after all supposed to be the person who did it. Whose apprehension would clear the Ramseys once and for all. jameson herself claimed that she was considering naming him. It's very easy in retrospect to throw one's hands up and say "ooh I wouldn't have done that".

Gigax's anger is directed at Tracey, not those who exposed the documentary.

I am deeply sorry that some people would rather protect the makers of fraudulent documentaries than expose their lies in order to search for the truth of who killed Jonbenet. Deeply sorry. Whatever happened to "let the chips fall where they may"?

[LindaA]

So that is why the makers of the documentary I saw on Youtube (which was apparently British) referred to himonly as Helgoth's "partner." They claimed to know his identity, but did not reveal it on the clip and said they would not on the whole program. So, isn't Gigax a nickname, pseudonym, or something like that?

[Louisadelmar]

[...]
ANYONE could have looked up that information and discovered who this mysterious "prime suspect" was. I know some hardened RSTs say they would not have but quite frankly, I don't believe them. This was after all supposed to be the person who did it. Whose apprehension would clear the Ramseys once and for all. jameson herself claimed that she was considering naming him. It's very easy in retrospect to throw one's hands up and say "ooh I wouldn't have done that".

Gigax's anger is directed at Tracey, not those who exposed the documentary.

[...]

The issue was I don't think it was appropriate to publicize Gigax's name. Everything you mention could have been done while still letting the man maintain his privacy. If he's been on the straight and narrow for years having his prior history trumpeted over the internet probably wasn't what he wanted. Gigax's initial anger was directed towards FFJ. Why didn't anyone bother to ask him ahead of time whether he minded if his name was put out there for all to see?

[Jayelles]

So that is why the makers of the documentary I saw on Youtube (which was apparently British) referred to himonly as Helgoth's "partner." They claimed to know his identity, but did not reveal it on the clip and said they would not on the whole program. So, isn't Gigax a nickname, pseudonym, or something like that?


Gigax is his real name - that's one of the odd things. It's a very uncommon name and when you typed it into Google, it brought his website up in the first few hits of the first page. Yet neither these hotshot detectives or briliiant programme makers seem to have tried googling his name and preferred to go on national tv and claim he'd "disappeared" and that it was a priority that they "tracked him down". Also, one of the people who took part in the programme even had his telephone number as it was he who called Gigax in Indiana to tell him Michael Helgoth was dead.

The documentary showed some court documents which had his name blacked out, but the case number was clearly visible as was his date of birth. If you google Colorado courts, it brings you to a website where you can search online for the details of any case by case number. Several people did this and independently of each other, found the information. Perhaps the programme makers thought that information would have restricted access, but these are public documents - available to anyone. This is public information.

The programme makers accused Gigax of several crimes - the murder of little Allie Berrelez, Boulder midnight burglaries, the murder of Jonbenet Ramsey, the murder of Michael helgoth (who was actually a suicide) and the sexual assault of another young Boulder girl. The called him a killer despite the fact that he has never been charged with murder, or arrested for murder or even been an official suspect in a murder case. His only tenous connection to the Ramsey case was via his friendship with Michael Helgoth - whose own tenous link to the Ramsey case was because he owned a pair of Hi-tec boots, a stungun which didn't match the marks on Jonbenet and who committed suicide on the day after Alex Hunter's "We will get you" speech on tv. However, the 14th feb was also St Valentines Day and Helgoth was known to have been depressed about the break up of a relationship.

Another fact about the programme is that the documentation about Gigax which was shown on screen had his physical description on it. He was described as being over 6ft tall, black hair, brown eyes and he was in his 50s. Incidentally, he also wears a black beard..... yet these "investigators" were also suggesting he was a valid suspect in the sexual assault of a young Boulder girl whose mother was an eye witness to the perp and she had described him as being in his 20s, about 5ft 6 and with blonde hair!

Can you even begin to understand the frustration of people who genuinely want to see this case solved when they see garbage like this being broadcast? This kind of fraudulent reporting only muddies the facts and can even hinder the real investigation. Clearly there are people who believe what they see in these documentaries. There will be people who think San Augustin and Co are the "real" investigators and that they were fingering a genuine "prime suspect". Supposing someone had suspicions about another suspect? It's entirely possible that they might dismiss another valid suspect in the mistaken belief that Tracey's (phoney) suspect was more viable.

[Jayelles]

The issue was I don't think it was appropriate to publicize Gigax's name. Everything you mention could have been done while still letting the man maintain his privacy. If he's been on the straight and narrow for years having his prior history trumpeted over the internet probably wasn't what he wanted. Gigax's initial anger was directed towards FFJ. Why didn't anyone bother to ask him ahead of time whether he minded if his name was put out there for all to see?

This is a PERFECT example of what I perceive to be misplaced "outrage" aka classic diversionary tactics.

I can also assure you that Gigax is not angry at FFJ and I'll give you one guess as to who hassled him most.

[Watching you]

The issue was I don't think it was appropriate to publicize Gigax's name. Everything you mention could have been done while still letting the man maintain his privacy. If he's been on the straight and narrow for years having his prior history trumpeted over the internet probably wasn't what he wanted. Gigax's initial anger was directed towards FFJ. Why didn't anyone bother to ask him ahead of time whether he minded if his name was put out there for all to see?


Right. Let's just forget about the lies and deliberate deceptions perpetrated upon Gigax and the public by Tracey and his cohorts and beat up on those who exposed their lies and reported those lies to Gigax, who had previously been unaware he was the subject of this libelous garbage and was, in fact, very grateful to have it brought to his attention.

Diversionary tactics, indeed. It was up to the originators of the documentary to protect Gigax's identity. They did not. That's nobody's fault but their own.

[Sprocket]

Thank you very much Jayelles, for taking the time to write the truth about these accusations and making it crystal clear about the non-involvement of these two individuals in the death of JonBenet.

[Louisadelmar]

Right. Let's just forget about the lies and deliberate deceptions perpetrated upon Gigax and the public by Tracey and his cohorts and beat up on those who exposed their lies and reported those lies to Gigax, who had previously been unaware he was the subject of this libelous garbage and was, in fact, very grateful to have it brought to his attention.

Diversionary tactics, indeed. It was up to the originators of the documentary to protect Gigax's identity. They did not. That's nobody's fault but their own.

Everything that was said about Tracey et al could have been said using a "John Doe" alias. I don't see why you needed to expose the man's real name.

[Jayelles]

Everything that was said about Tracey et al could have been said using a "John Doe" alias. I don't see why you needed to expose the man's real name.


An honest detective would have contacted the man through his website and asked him where he was in December 1996.

An honest programme maker wouldn't have made a documentary full of lies which accused an innocent man of a whole bunch of heinous crimes?

Where's your outrage at them Tipper?

[Watching you]

Everything that was said about Tracey et al could have been said using a "John Doe" alias. I don't see why you needed to expose the man's real name.



In the first place, I didn't expose Gigax's real name, but I would have if I had seen the documentary and knew enough to check the records. I also believe that Gigax was contacted before his name was ever revealed, and he had no objection to it, so why do you object so much?

In the second place, you're still blaming the wrong people. Leaving the case number on the file was an open invitation for anyone, media included, to find out who these people were so sure killed JonBenet. Why you wish to blame the people who exposed these frauds instead of the frauds themselves is beyond me.

[Jayelles]

In the first place, I didn't expose Gigax's real name, but I would have if I had seen the documentary and knew enough to check the records. I also believe that Gigax was contacted before his name was ever revealed, and he had no objection to it, so why do you object so much?

In the second place, you're still blaming the wrong people. Leaving the case number on the file was an open invitation for anyone, media included, to find out who these people were so sure killed JonBenet. Why you wish to blame the people who exposed these frauds instead of the frauds themselves is beyond me.

As a result of us exposing the documentary, it had to be completely revamped before it could be shown in the US. The US media would have exposed it if we hadn't.

[Watching you]

As a result of us exposing the documentary, it had to be completely revamped before it could be shown in the US. The US media would have exposed it if we hadn't.


You are absolutely right. The media would have done a lot worse if they had been the ones to expose Gigax, probably without even trying to get the real truth before they did. The people who did expose his name actually did him a big favor.

[Louisadelmar]

And I think the same thing could have been accomplished using a John Doe alias. End of story and end of conversation.

[Jayelles]

And I think the same thing could have been accomplished using a John Doe alias. End of story and end of conversation.


I guess we can therefore take that as NO outrage at Tracey for producing a fraudulent and misleading documentary and NO outrage at the Ramsey PIs for their pathetic incompetency.

Nuff said I suppose.

[Athena]

Gigax has never been charged with paedophila, nor is he on any sex offender list (unlike the characters who took part in Tracey's appalling documentary). Nor was Gigax arrested for or charged with burglary during the year or so that he stayed in Boulder.

He has a criminal record consisting of several charges of assault which took place during drunken brawls. He has openly discussed the assault charge which is mentioned on the Wiki. He doesn't try to minimise it or blame anyone else. He was sent ot prison for three months and on his release, he moved to Indiana to start afresh. This all took place many months before JonBenet Ramsey's murder AND the midnight burglaries. He has remained in Indiana ever since and has been in very poor health for several years.

Gigax did not "discuss" the sexual assault only that he admitted to it. Reading other articles it says it was actually attempted sexual assault on a teenage babysitter and it was years ago. In Cathy Crier's interview with Tracey; Tracey says that he didn't know if he was a prime suspect but someone who should be investigated. You also have to admit that the circumstances surrounding Helgoth's death are strange. Tracey also got his information from three other people so not sure how Tracey can be faulted for this.

Unfortunately it's true that people on these forums seem to know how to dig up more than investigators do and that is actually very sad. I think what this does point out is that the BPD did not do a thorough investigation of many people but rather superficial ones as they had already believed they had the killers in the Ramseys. Seems the US version took out the reference to Gigax and the original version never mentioned his name although he was told by her according to the video that he was named. Perhaps Griffith should have just taken the info she had and forwarded it to the BPD/DA's offices. She is the one that revealed his name and while I commend her on her investigative skills, she should not have revealed his ID. JMO

Both interviews are below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTtz3zGJkHI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2ooGtPWS-4

[Athena]

I guess we can therefore take that as NO outrage at Tracey for producing a fraudulent and misleading documentary and NO outrage at the Ramsey PIs for their pathetic incompetency.

Nuff said I suppose.

I believe the outrage should begin with the BPD. jmo

[bullmoose]

I guess we can therefore take that as NO outrage at Tracey for producing a fraudulent and misleading documentary and NO outrage at the Ramsey PIs for their pathetic incompetency.

Nuff said I suppose.Maybe its a day late to weigh in on this, but Jayelles, I hear no outrage expessed from you about the many lies and falsehoods spread early on by the BPD; the only outrage I see from you is concerning criminals that were not well-investigated in a timely fashion by the BPD.I have not seen the documentary made by Tracey, but I doubt it could have been more misleading than the ludicrous theories espoused by Colorado's Caped Crusader-- Synthroid StevieJMHO:biggrin:

[Jayelles]

Maybe its a day late to weigh in on this, but Jayelles, I hear no outrage expessed from you about the many lies and falsehoods spread early on by the BPD; the only outrage I see from you is concerning criminals that were not well-investigated in a timely fashion by the BPD.I have not seen the documentary made by Tracey, but I doubt it could have been more misleading than the ludicrous theories espoused by Colorado's Caped Crusader-- Synthroid StevieJMHO:biggrin:


I am outraged at ALL lies - no matter who tells them. Describe a lie that the BPD told and I will happily express outrage for you :-)

[Jayelles]

Gigax did not "discuss" the sexual assault only that he admitted to it. Reading other articles it says it was actually attempted sexual assault on a teenage babysitter and it was years ago.


You are correct - he did speak of it/admit to it and discuss was not the correct term to use.

A small matter, hopefully.

[Athena]

You are correct - he did speak of it/admit to it and discuss was not the correct term to use.

A small matter, hopefully.

Yes it is a small matter; thought I missed something. :)

[bullmoose]

I am outraged at ALL lies - no matter who tells them. Describe a lie that the BPD told and I will happily express outrage for you :-)Back in December of 1997 when the Ramseys were in Atlanta burying Jonbenet, Eller told the mayor of Boulder that there was no killer loose in Boulder because the Ramseys were in Atlanta. Mayor Durgin said in a TV interview that there was no killer loose in Boulder, shocking the Ramseys. Do you remember that? I do.IMO

[Athena]

Back in December of 1997 when the Ramseys were in Atlanta burying Jonbenet, Eller told the mayor of Boulder that there was no killer loose in Boulder because the Ramseys were in Atlanta. Mayor Durgin said in a TV interview that there was no killer loose in Boulder, shocking the Ramseys. Do you remember that? I do.IMO

And we both know that Twisting Thomas NEVER modified the truth.

[thewhitewitch1]

Back in December of 1997 when the Ramseys were in Atlanta burying Jonbenet, Eller told the mayor of Boulder that there was no killer loose in Boulder because the Ramseys were in Atlanta. Mayor Durgin said in a TV interview that there was no killer loose in Boulder, shocking the Ramseys. Do you remember that? I do.IMO

Considering no one else was murdered, how would you consider that a lie? Sounds to me like he was right.

[bullmoose]

Considering no one else was murdered, how would you consider that a lie? Sounds to me like he was right.
It's true that with Synthroid Stevie and his band of Colorado's Caped Crusaders on the watch that no more murders occurred in Boulder ever again[well, anyways till the next year]. Because of their unquestioned competence any would-be killers were frozen with fear and unable to ply their grisly craft. HipHipHoray for the Kolorado Keystone Kops!!!!JMHO:biggrin:

[thewhitewitch1]

It's true that with Synthroid Stevie and his band of Colorado's Caped Crusaders on the watch that no more murders occurred in Boulder ever again[well, anyways till the next year]. Because of their unquestioned competence any would-be killers were frozen with fear and unable to ply their grisly craft. HipHipHoray for the Kolorado Keystone Kops!!!!JMHO:biggrin:


If that "killer" was really "on the loose" in Boulder, he'd have struck again. Knowing how incompitent the cops are there, he'd really have nothing to fear.
So why didn't he? After reading your post, Bullmoose, through your sarcasm, it seems that you agree. :biggrin:

[bullmoose]

If that "killer" was really "on the loose" in Boulder, he'd have struck again. Knowing how incompitent the cops are there, he'd really have nothing to fear.
So why didn't he? After reading your post, Bullmoose, through your sarcasm, it seems that you agree. :biggrin:Sarcasm bites both ways, don't it?
Although I have no ready suspect to point at I really do believe that this was a targeted murder by somebody intent on making a point, even if just to himself. I believe that Jonbenet was targeted and I believe the house was carefully and deliberately cased. This was IMO, no random murder nor was it a parentacide. It was a cruel, vicious murder by a monster that looks human to normal people; somebody that also wanted to destroy the Ramseys. The Green River killer, Gary Ridgway was caught because of 20 year old DNA evidence; perhaps this killer will be caught years from now because of the DNA left on Jonbenet's underpants. I believe the DNA profile to be good based on the fact that they were able to exclude Karr so quickly once they were able to get a sample. I don't hold out much hope that way, but it is IMO likely the only chance of this case being resolved.Actually.:shrug:

[thewhitewitch1]

Sarcasm bites both ways, don't it?
Although I have no ready suspect to point at I really do believe that this was a targeted murder by somebody intent on making a point, even if just to himself. I believe that Jonbenet was targeted and I believe the house was carefully and deliberately cased. This was IMO, no random murder nor was it a parentacide. It was a cruel, vicious murder by a monster that looks human to normal people; somebody that also wanted to destroy the Ramseys. The Green River killer, Gary Ridgway was caught because of 20 year old DNA evidence; perhaps this killer will be caught years from now because of the DNA left on Jonbenet's underpants. I believe the DNA profile to be good based on the fact that they were able to exclude Karr so quickly once they were able to get a sample. I don't hold out much hope that way, but it is IMO likely the only chance of this case being resolved.Actually.:shrug:

I do so wish that I believe what you believe but alas; I cannot and do not.
Yes, it would be nice if the DNA could solve the murder but I doubt that it will. How frusterating for all of us who come here every day to debate, argue and discuss this case over and over again knowing that we will probably never have an answer...nor the Victory! (heh) of saying "I told you so!" to the "opposing team".

[Louisadelmar]

Actually I thought in the first hour or so of the Karr debacle (when MSNBC was still saying his DNA matched), people were remarkably civil. It seemed, with a few exceptions, that everyone was just relieved and glad to have it 'solved.' Then when the DNA claim was retracted both sides definitely took a wait and see attitude. I don't think anyone wants the wrong person convicted just so Boulder can write this case off their books..

[thewhitewitch1]

Actually I thought in the first hour or so of the Karr debacle (when MSNBC was still saying his DNA matched), people were remarkably civil. It seemed, with a few exceptions, that everyone was just relieved and glad to have it 'solved.' Then when the DNA claim was retracted both sides definitely took a wait and see attitude. I don't think anyone wants the wrong person convicted just so Boulder can write this case off their books..


Yes, most were civil but there was one thread made by someone that demanded all RDIs apologize to the Ramseys. :eek:

[Jayelles]

Back in December of 1997 when the Ramseys were in Atlanta burying Jonbenet, Eller told the mayor of Boulder that there was no killer loose in Boulder because the Ramseys were in Atlanta. Mayor Durgin said in a TV interview that there was no killer loose in Boulder, shocking the Ramseys. Do you remember that? I do.IMO

I don't remember it because I didn't know about the case then. I knew that a child beauty queen had been murdered and that her mother was a beauty queen and that for some reason, the parents wouldn't co-operate with the investigation. That was about the extent of the case coverage in this country. I first learned about the case from Michael Tracey's documentary in the summer of 1998 but even then, I didn't attempt to find out more about the case until almost 2 years later when I was on maternity leave from work and had time on my hands.

Sure it's a lie. There IS a killer on the loose and will be until that killer is apprehended.

I'm outraged.

[chatwuann]

Sarcasm bites both ways, don't it?
Although I have no ready suspect to point at I really do believe that this was a targeted murder by somebody intent on making a point, even if just to himself. I believe that Jonbenet was targeted and I believe the house was carefully and deliberately cased. This was IMO, no random murder nor was it a parentacide. It was a cruel, vicious murder by a monster that looks human to normal people; somebody that also wanted to destroy the Ramseys. The Green River killer, Gary Ridgway was caught because of 20 year old DNA evidence; perhaps this killer will be caught years from now because of the DNA left on Jonbenet's underpants. I believe the DNA profile to be good based on the fact that they were able to exclude Karr so quickly once they were able to get a sample. I don't hold out much hope that way, but it is IMO likely the only chance of this case being resolved.Actually.:shrug:

And once the point was made with the Ramseys there was no need to make the same point again to them or anyone else. Until if and when the killer has another point to make then he/she will most likely stay low. Just My Humble Opinion of course.