Goldmans Sue

[sassylassy]

I think the case got all the attention because it involved a star, a very beautiful woman, and promised to spill lots of intimate details of a troubled marrige. In short: it had all the makings for both tabloids and other papers to keep their writers busy and their readers happy.

ITA- :beer:

[socaldiva]

Yes agreed she left OJS a message on June 12 but as soon as she heard about the murders she jetted right back to OJS....so it wasnt much of a "break up" (thats what I'm pointing out as a correction)

(:read: U do recall Paula being at Robert Kardashian's home prior to the chase dont you???)

I also read Paula left a 30 min message- I'm not making this up :shrug:

JMO IMO MOO

Yes, she came back to be by OJ's side when she was asked. That doesn't mean that they were back to being a romantic couple.

I wasn't implying that you were making anything up, I just doubt the veracity of her leaving a 30 minute message.

[2L8 4A D8]

weezer

i am sure they had both gone their seperate ways. Oj notified nicole of his intentions to go on with his life when his lawyer sent her the IRS letter.

He was busy with Paula and seemed to have had Greta in the back of his mind.

martin II

Yeah, I can see OJ having the hots for Greta and have her in the back of his mind!! :rolleyes:

JMO and MOO!!

[2L8 4A D8]

<snipped>

I'm just pointing out that regardless if you have children or not you can still understand & relate to that person's pain-on a human level

imo jmo

Maybe you ought to fly your above sentence by your NG pal, Martin II! Every chance he gets, he can't post fast enough to bash Fred Goldman and Nicole Brown Simpson!

I am sure that all of you take the road that WA did. You can ask him about it via a PM!

JMO and MOO!!

[sassylassy]

Maybe you ought to fly your above sentence by your NG pal, Martin II! Every chance he gets, he can't post fast enough to bash Fred Goldman and Nicole Brown Simpson!

I am sure that all of you take the road that WA did. You can ask him about it via a PM!

JMO and MOO!!

I dont speak for ppl ...I only speak for myself!

I'm not really into "playing games" its not my style, so I'm passing on the PM

thanks anyhow!

[zeldaglutch]

Thanks for helping see things from your viewpoint. It's very helpful to gain insight. I remember the day that I saw OJ's face during the indictment hearing. I could tell that he could not stop the pictures and I hope that he is haunted forever by the brutality of his rage.

I know in my heart that Fred Goldman is being driven to deal with what happened that night. It was so vivid and I am sure that he can't stop the pictures.

I guess I had buried my gaping hole until I found this Web site and the thread about my brother. It feels like yesterday that my father called and that I have made no progress what-so-ever.

NN

I am so very sorry to hear about your sister and I am glad that she is not suffering anymore. I hope you and your family find peace and comfort in knowing that she is smiling on you now.

PS
Ironically, I went to see David Letterman many years ago and guess who was on the show? OJ Simpson, of course that was prior to Nicole and Ron's murder. Sometimes you cannot escape irony.

[sassylassy]

Yes, she came back to be by OJ's side when she was asked. That doesn't mean that they were back to being a romantic couple.

I wasn't implying that you were making anything up, I just doubt the veracity of her leaving a 30 minute message.

I think it was romantic & from what I recall in Paula's book they were back on?

anyhow thats what I read about "the message" I could be wrong, but I'm
usually always right, so on that note I will try to find that link:read:

[socaldiva]

*snip*
I'm usually always right, so on that note I will try to find that link:read:

:rolleyes:
Don't bother looking on my account, I don't really care & it has no bearing on who killed Ron & Nicole.:tongue:

[Suzee10]

imo it has nothing to do with having children or not-

if ppl think OJS didnt murder anyone, they would assume Fred Goldman is barking up the wrong tree :shrug:no?

IMO :)


It has everything to do with if you have children. No one can imagine the feelings of losing a child if they do not have one, and they cannot imagine the lengths a parent will go to for their children or to have justice for their child. In this case Fred had no justice, so if he can make simpson uncomfortable he is going to do it. He is letting simpson know that he will never be able to rest easy as long as Fred is around. Fred does not rest easy, his child was butchered, why should simpson? I know I would be doing the same thing and probably much worse.

[2L8 4A D8]

I dont speak for ppl ...I only speak for myself!

I'm not really into "playing games" its not my style, so I'm passing on the PM

thanks anyhow!

Everytime that you post you are "playing games!" Yeah, if you would "only speak for" yourself, but you don't. Maybe the next time Martin posts something so assinine and ridiculous, why don't you speak for yourself instead of always responding to Martin's posts with one of your ITA's or :beer:'s!

It's good that you're passing on the PM to WA! Good move!

JMO and MOO!!

[2L8 4A D8]

It has everything to do with if you have children. No one can imagine the feelings of losing a child if they do not have one, and they cannot imagine the lengths a parent will go to for their children or to have justice for their child. In this case Fred had no justice, so if he can make simpson uncomfortable he is going to do it. He is letting simpson know that he will never be able to rest easy as long as Fred is around. Fred does not rest easy, his child was butchered, why should simpson? I know I would be doing the same thing and probably much worse.

ITA Suzee! I am sure that once Fred has died, Kim, his daughter and Ron's Sister, will continue to be Fred's voice and advocate against OJ Simpson.

Now that Sharon Tate's Mother has died, Sharon's Sister is continuing to be her Mother's voice and advocate for Sharon and her unborn baby boy against Charles Manson and The Manson Family!

No Parent(s) will ever stop and only Parent(s) can understand the magnitude of losing a child. I don't care what other Posters have said!

JMO and MOO!!

[Kayleighjo]

I think it was romantic & from what I recall in Paula's book they were back on?

anyhow thats what I read about "the message" I could be wrong, but I'm
usually always right, so on that note I will try to find that link:read:

No, you're right that Paula claimed on Larry King live that she left him a 30 minute message on his machine on the morning of June 12th. She said she was stunned to hear OJ deny that he recieved the message and even more stunned to hear Johnny Cochran claim that the two were still a happy couple.

[koolchick]

Correction: Paula dumped OJS for what 24 hrs? then they were back together!

speaking of Paula, I read that her message to OJS was 30 mins long!

seems like a long time to be talking to a machine (if its true)....:tongue:


What did you think of Simpson lying about receiving that message? She even said that the message that he left her confirmed that he got the message.

[koolchick]

Here's some more stuff that Paula said:

The Other Woman: My Years with O. J. Simpson-A Story of Love,
Trust, and Betrayal by Paula Barbieri:

“He killed them didn’t he!!” I burst out to Tom. Now my conflict was an open
wound.

Then [O. J.] asked me a question, “What happened to the messages I left you last
night?”. “I erased them” I said. “Good”, he said, “I don’t need them to start picking
on that too...”

Had I done something to set off this terrible chain of events?

O.J.’s rage had scared me once or twice...I’d seen him go berserk in a hotel room...

I picked up the Bronco’s cell phone and started to dial a car service. O. J. grabbed
the phone and knocked it out of my hand, hurting me.

Watching “My Fair Lady” with O. J. was a multimedia experience. He knew most
of the dialogue by heart, and all of the songs, and he sang along with each one of
them.

What was my first impression? With his big head and long fingers and skinny body,
O. J. Simpson reminded me of ET, the extraterrestrial. I’m not saying he wasn’t
handsome; he would have been one of the more attractive aliens on a Star Wars
set....But mostly, I felt sorry for him. Beneath O. J.’s bravado, I sensed a person in
pain...As far as I was concerned, O. J. Simpson was just a lonely friend of Marcus
Allen..."

[martin II]

Here's some more stuff that Paula said:

The Other Woman: My Years with O. J. Simpson-A Story of Love,
Trust, and Betrayal by Paula Barbieri:

“He killed them didn’t he!!” I burst out to Tom. Now my conflict was an open
wound.

Then [O. J.] asked me a question, “What happened to the messages I left you last
night?”. “I erased them” I said. “Good”, he said, “I don’t need them to start picking
on that too...”

Had I done something to set off this terrible chain of events?

O.J.’s rage had scared me once or twice...I’d seen him go berserk in a hotel room...

I picked up the Bronco’s cell phone and started to dial a car service. O. J. grabbed
the phone and knocked it out of my hand, hurting me.

Watching “My Fair Lady” with O. J. was a multimedia experience. He knew most
of the dialogue by heart, and all of the songs, and he sang along with each one of
them.

What was my first impression? With his big head and long fingers and skinny body,
O. J. Simpson reminded me of ET, the extraterrestrial. I’m not saying he wasn’t
handsome; he would have been one of the more attractive aliens on a Star Wars
set....But mostly, I felt sorry for him. Beneath O. J.’s bravado, I sensed a person in
pain...As far as I was concerned, O. J. Simpson was just a lonely friend of Marcus
Allen..."


I am wondering if paula made these comments during her daily visits to oj in jail or after the trial and when she wrote her book.

martin II

[koolchick]

I am wondering if paula made these comments during her daily visits to oj in jail or after the trial and when she wrote her book.

martin II

I am still wondering why OJ lied about receiving her message.

[weezer]

I am wondering if paula made these comments during her daily visits to oj in jail or after the trial and when she wrote her book.

martin II

the fact of the matter is, she made the statements. IIRC, it was Arnelle that called Paula and implored her to come to see orenthal. Do I remember correctly?

[weezer]

I am still wondering why OJ lied about receiving her message.

I believe there are two parts to this: 1. He wasn't going to admit any female dumped him (Nicole or Paula) and 2. If he could say that he'd moved on with his life with Paula, then that made him less of a suspect.

[martin II]

It has everything to do with if you have children. No one can imagine the feelings of losing a child if they do not have one, and they cannot imagine the lengths a parent will go to for their children or to have justice for their child. In this case Fred had no justice, so if he can make simpson uncomfortable he is going to do it. He is letting simpson know that he will never be able to rest easy as long as Fred is around. Fred does not rest easy, his child was butchered, why should simpson? I know I would be doing the same thing and probably much worse.

suzee

Maby fred should try to get control of the anger instead of being driven by it.

hopefully fred will find other more positive activities to occupy his mind other than the negative feelings he currently experiences from forcing himself to set aside space in his brain for oj. Not healthy at all.imo

martin II

[martin II]

the fact of the matter is, she made the statements. IIRC, it was Arnelle that called Paula and implored her to come to see orenthal. Do I remember correctly?

wezer
i don't know if arnell called paula or not. i have not read her comments on this. but i don't think Paula visited oj daily for the time he was in jail because arnell askef her visit him.Oj was in jail for almost a year. with nicols out of the picture, maby Paula saw a opening.
martin II

[martin II]

I believe there are two parts to this: 1. He wasn't going to admit any female dumped him (Nicole or Paula) and 2. If he could say that he'd moved on with his life with Paula, then that made him less of a suspect.

oj and Paula were a item long before nicoles murder. As a matter fact when
Nicole wanted to get back with Oj told Cora that he was seeing Paula.

Was paula also doing some interior decorating at oj house. She was on his arm on satrurday 6/11 at the celebrity chairity affair in LA.

Oj did not tak her to the recital and she pitched one of her regular anger fit.
for a day.

martin II

[Kayleighjo]

suzee

Maby fred should try to get control of the anger instead of being driven by it.

hopefully fred will find other more positive activities to occupy his mind other than the negative feelings he currently experiences from forcing himself to set aside space in his brain for oj. Not healthy at all.imo

martin II

I think that continuing to hold the killer of your son responsible for his death is a positive thing ... OJ shouldn't get a moment of peace after all of the lives he's destroyed.

It must really get OJ ... he finally met someone that he can't control.

[n.n]

Seems to me that Paula was after stars in general -- moving into a suite with Michael Bolton while she had a quarrel with Mr. Simpson. To be honest, she does appear a little cheap: like a groupie/gold digger?
Did she tell whether Mr. Simpson hurt her when he went "berserk" in that hotel room?

[koolchick]

suzee

Maby fred should try to get control of the anger instead of being driven by it.

hopefully fred will find other more positive activities to occupy his mind other than the negative feelings he currently experiences from forcing himself to set aside space in his brain for oj. Not healthy at all.imo

martin II

Maybe if Simpson would have controlled his anger then Fred wouldn't have to worry about that.

:flamemad:

[weezer]

wezer
i don't know if arnell called paula or not. i have not read her comments on this. but i don't think Paula visited oj daily for the time he was in jail because arnell askef her visit him.Oj was in jail for almost a year. with nicols out of the picture, maby Paula saw a opening.
martin II

yep, I was right. Arnelle called Paula and begged her to visit her dad because he was so. . . . .

Arnelle sure was into this crime up to her eyeballs wasn't she? She must have really hated Nicole.

you should read Paula's book before you begin to speak on her behalf or interpret her thoughts.

[weezer]

suzee

Maby fred should try to get control of the anger instead of being driven by it.

hopefully fred will find other more positive activities to occupy his mind other than the negative feelings he currently experiences from forcing himself to set aside space in his brain for oj. Not healthy at all.imo

martin II

I watched courttv last night about a cold case (15 - 20 years) where a young girl was kidnapped and murdered. The death of her daughter drove the mother to suicide five years later, and although the father was still alive years and years later, he spoke of the murderer as being an 'animal' and a 'b@stard' --

Maybe we could ask parents of murdered children what they think about the NG's suggestions that the Goldmans forget about it and move on so orenthal can have his life back.

[martin II]

yep, I was right. Arnelle called Paula and begged her to visit her dad because he was so. . . . .

Arnelle sure was into this crime up to her eyeballs wasn't she? She must have really hated Nicole.

you should read Paula's book before you begin to speak on her behalf or interpret her thoughts.

all i know is when oj was arrested paula was at the jail the next day or a day or two after and she stayed for some time.

The next thing i know is paula being there or not being there had nothing to do with whether oj killed nicole and her new boyfriend.

Some time ago you expressed your opinion of Arnell so i do understand how you feel about this young black woman.

martinII

[martin II]

I watched courttv last night about a cold case (15 - 20 years) where a young girl was kidnapped and murdered. The death of her daughter drove the mother to suicide five years later, and although the father was still alive years and years later, he spoke of the murderer as being an 'animal' and a 'b@stard' --

Maybe we could ask parents of murdered children what they think about the NG's suggestions that the Goldmans forget about it and move on so orenthal can have his life back.

weezer

It is not about oj getting his life back. It is about someone helping fred to heal.

If you would like to promote vindictiveness, hate and anger in the famalies of victims, then by all means have a go at it.

martin II

[martin II]

Maybe if Simpson would have controlled his anger then Fred wouldn't have to worry about that.

:flamemad:

kc
No one is responsible for the place fred seems to be in now 12 years after his son was killed. fred is responsible for where he is.
martin II

[socaldiva]

kc
No one is responsible for the place fred seems to be in now 12 years after his son was killed. fred is responsible for where he is.
martin II

Gee, I'd say the person (OJ) that murdered his Son is responsible for Fred's grief! Too bad you can't grasp the concept that this is no time limit on grieving for a loved one & wanting justice.

[koolchick]

kc
No one is responsible for the place fred seems to be in now 12 years after his son was killed. fred is responsible for where he is.
martin II

Okay, then why do you keep trying to blame Nicole for OJ's actions? You validate his behavior because she was "living dangerously".

[martin II]

Okay, then why do you keep trying to blame Nicole for OJ's actions? You validate his behavior because she was "living dangerously".

kc

I have not validated anything oj may have done.

I don't believe he klilled anyone for any reason.

I understand why oj may have decided to let Nicole go considering the lifestyles her two friends attributed to her.

I have posted testimony about nicoles behavior given by her friends that some prefer not be posted.

martin II

[n.n]

Okay, then why do you keep trying to blame Nicole for OJ's actions? You validate his behavior because she was "living dangerously".

The issue is not to make Mrs. Simpson look bad, disgrace or blame her. The issue is that because of her involvement with such people, police should have taken off their blinders. They should have put more emphasis on finding the murderer in the shady world of drugs and -- even prostitution. (I've just read that there was talk about some ties to Heidi Fleiss.) I don't know whether that is true; I just think that LE really jumped to conclusions because it all looked so obvious. I mean, how much easier can it get? Mentioning her involvement in the drug scene also does not necessarily mean accusing her of being an addict. As heartless it may sound, some people may be considered "collateral damage" in those circles.
I am afraid you are reading bad intentions into statements when they are not there. (My very own opinion)
Obviously there is a group of posters here who happens to believe that Mr. Simpson is innocent. Each has his/her reasons to believe so, and they state these reasons. That's all. They cannot "validate, condone, or embrace" a deed they believe the man has NOT committed. Only someone who believes he committed the crimes could do that (for whatever reasons.)
The only thing that the statement you're referring to says is that the man is innoceent, and here's why I think so.

[koolchick]

kc

I have not validated anything oj may have done.

I don't believe he klilled anyone for any reason.

I understand why oj may have decided to let Nicole go considering the lifestyles her two friends attributed to her.

I have posted testimony about nicoles behavior given by her friends that some prefer not be posted.

martin II

OJ let Nicole go? It was Nicole that let OJ go. I don't think anyone prefers that things not be posted. I believe that you are distorting the truth.

[koolchick]

The issue is not to make Mrs. Simpson look bad, disgrace or blame her. The issue is that because of her involvement with such people, police should have taken off their blinders. They should have put more emphasis on finding the murderer in the shady world of drugs and -- even prostitution. (I've just read that there was talk about some ties to Heidi Fleiss.) I don't know whether that is true; I just think that LE really jumped to conclusions because it all looked so obvious. I mean, how much easier can it get? Mentioning her involvement in the drug scene also does not necessarily mean accusing her of being an addict. As heartless it may sound, some people may be considered "collateral damage" in those circles.
I am afraid you are reading bad intentions into statements when they are not there. (My very own opinion)
Obviously there is a group of posters here who happens to believe that Mr. Simpson is innocent. Each has his/her reasons to believe so, and they state these reasons. That's all. They cannot "validate, condone, or embrace" a deed they believe the man has NOT committed. Only someone who believes he committed the crimes could do that (for whatever reasons.)
The only thing that the statement you're referring to says is that the man is innoceent, and here's why I think so.

Police didn't have on blinders. All of the evidence pointed to Simpson. They saw it clearly. What makes you believe that the police should have focused more on the "shady world of drugs and prostitution"? What evidence is there that anyone other than Simpson committed these murders? Every lead led them to Simpson.

I'm not trying to read bad intentions when they aren't there. I respect all's opinions. But, if you are going to throw your beliefs out there then I can let you know why IMO they are wrong. And, your statement actually goes both ways.

Only someone who believes he committed the crimes could do that (for whatever reasons.)

Or vice/versa. Only someone who believes he didn't would actually believe OJ. He is a proven liar. So, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

:cool:

[weezer]

weezer

It is not about oj getting his life back. It is about someone helping fred to heal.

If you would like to promote vindictiveness, hate and anger in the famalies of victims, then by all means have a go at it.

martin II

you are foolish man to think that a loving parent would walk away and let the butcher of his child live happily everafter.

[martin II]

Police didn't have on blinders. All of the evidence pointed to Simpson. They saw it clearly. What makes you believe that the police should have focused more on the "shady world of drugs and prostitution"? What evidence is there that anyone other than Simpson committed these murders? Every lead led them to Simpson.

I'm not trying to read bad intentions when they aren't there. I respect all's opinions. But, if you are going to throw your beliefs out there then I can let you know why IMO they are wrong. And, your statement actually goes both ways.

Only someone who believes he committed the crimes could do that (for whatever reasons.)

Or vice/versa. Only someone who believes he didn't would actually believe OJ. He is a proven liar. So, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

:cool:

kc

Some people believe all of the prosecutions 'EVIDENCE'/"witnesses" some don't. I think that the defense was successful in showing the jury , and others,that the prosecution did not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt which was required by law to find OJ guilty.

martin II

[martin II]

you are foolish man to think that a loving parent would walk away and let the butcher of his child live happily everafter.

weezer
I am not a foolish man by any means. So cut the name calling.
martin II

[socaldiva]

kc

Some people believe all of the prosecutions 'EVIDENCE'/"witnesses" some don't. I think that the defense was successful in showing the jury , and others,that the prosecution did not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt which was required by law to find OJ guilty.

martin II

I'd say "some people" are VERY small in numbers. The vast majority understand OJ was a double murderer & got set free because the jurors were just idiots with a misguided agenda.

[2L8 4A D8]

weezer

It is not about oj getting his life back. It is about someone helping fred to heal.

If you would like to promote vindictiveness, hate and anger in the famalies of victims, then by all means have a go at it.

martin II

Why don't you knock off your Holier Than Thou attitude? You might be fooling some posters, but you are NOT fooling me! You don't give a rat'z azz about "helping Fred to heal!" That's all you do on this Board and these Threads is "promote vindictiveness, hate and anger! You are the last one that should tell someone what to do and how to feel!

You are the first one at the trough bashing the h311 out of Fred and Ron. You are also the first one at the trough saying such nasty, despicable, ugly and disgusting things about Nicole and certain Posters on this Board and these Threads!

Give us all a freaking break *****! :punch:

JMO and MOO!!

[n.n]

Police didn't have on blinders. All of the evidence pointed to Simpson. They saw it clearly. What makes you believe that the police should have focused more on the "shady world of drugs and prostitution"? What evidence is there that anyone other than Simpson committed these murders? Every lead led them to Simpson.

I'm not trying to read bad intentions when they aren't there. I respect all's opinions. But, if you are going to throw your beliefs out there then I can let you know why IMO they are wrong. And, your statement actually goes both ways.

Only someone who believes he committed the crimes could do that (for whatever reasons.)

Or vice/versa. Only someone who believes he didn't would actually believe OJ. He is a proven liar. So, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

:cool:

We sure disagree.
I just don't see why Martin's post suggests his supporting a killer.

[n.n]

"Only someone who believes he committed the crimes could do that (for whatever reasons.)"

That's exactly my point ... So how could Martin believe it and use it to prove his point? His statement was interpreted from a prejudiced point of view, in my opinion -- not an analytical one.

[sassylassy]

What did you think of Simpson lying about receiving that message? She even said that the message that he left her confirmed that he got the message.

from my understanding OJS called into his voice mailbox for 3 mins

if thats true then he didnt listen to the whole 30 min long message left by Paula :shrug:......

[sassylassy]

No, you're right that Paula claimed on Larry King live that she left him a 30 minute message on his machine on the morning of June 12th. She said she was stunned to hear OJ deny that he recieved the message and even more stunned to hear Johnny Cochran claim that the two were still a happy couple.

Thank you.

[sassylassy]

Everytime that you post you are "playing games!" Yeah, if you would "only speak for" yourself, but you don't. Maybe the next time Martin posts something so assinine and ridiculous, why don't you speak for yourself instead of always responding to Martin's posts with one of your ITA's or

It's good that you're passing on the PM to WA! Good move!

JMO and MOO!!


if I say "ITA: with someone its because I do :confused: if I dont reply its because I dont ....

I dont dictate what posters should say or feel, like I said I speak only for myself...

and ...I said I was passing on the PM as in No thanks...:no:

[martin II]

from my understanding OJS called into his voice mailbox for 3 mins

if thats true then he didnt listen to the whole 30 min long message left by Paula :shrug:......

sound like oj only heard the warm up part.

martin II

[martin II]

you are foolish man to think that a loving parent would walk away and let the butcher of his child live happily everafter.

weezer
stop calling me names

some that suggest a course of action for fred that involves vindictiveness , hate and anger do so not out of a concern for fred but more out a personal sartisfaciton they get from seeing anyone attack OJ Simpson.IMO

MARTIN ii

[weezer]

weezer
stop calling me names

some that suggest a course of action for fred that involves vindictiveness , hate and anger do so not out of a concern for fred but more out a personal sartisfaciton they get from seeing anyone attack OJ Simpson.IMO

MARTIN ii

:confused: I wasn't calling you names.

[martin II]

:confused: I wasn't calling you names.

Originally Posted by fbgweezer
you are foolish man to think that a loving parent would walk away and let the butcher of his child live happily everafter.

I consider this name calling. so stop.

martin II

[weezer]

Originally Posted by fbgweezer
you are foolish man to think that a loving parent would walk away and let the butcher of his child live happily everafter.

I consider this name calling. so stop.

martin II

Again, I wasn't calling you names. Get over it.

[martin II]

OJ let Nicole go? It was Nicole that let OJ go. I don't think anyone prefers that things not be posted. I believe that you are distorting the truth.

kc

faye resnicks deposition on nicole reconciliation request to oj.
------------------


Q. Did she then initiate a reconciliation with Mr. Simpson, to your knowledge?

A. Yes, she did.

Q. And did that occur roughly in April of 1993?

A. Yes, it did.

Q. Did she tell you what Mr. Simpson's response or reaction to her asking him to reconcile was?

A. Yes, she did.

Q. What did she say?

A. She said that initially he had said that he was happy with Paula.

Q. And who is Paula, for the record?

A. Paula Barbieri, a woman that he was dating at the time, and that she called me and said that it was not - that he was not responsive, but she felt good for trying to put her family back together.


martin II

[martin II]

He raged over her smoking? smoking is a filthy dirty habit and second hand smoke can kill!

I disagree that OJS would charm Nicole back with a lighter- compared to the other lavish gifts OJS bought Nicole!

I think winning her back w/ a lighter would be insulting--- but anyhow that's MOO :)

sassy

here is Faye talking about cigarette lighter some say oj gave nicole.haha

Q. Did he encourage Nicole to smoke?

A. No. He put up a sign -

Q. Excuse me?

A. He put up a sign in the bathroom telling her that she couldn't, no smoking.

Q . Do you know if O.J. Simpson ever gave Nicole a gold cigarette lighter?

A. I have never heard of him giving her a gold cigarette lighter.

Q. Do you know whether O.J. Simpson bought a gold cigarette lighter and had his children, Sydney and Justin, give it to Nicole as a birthday present in May of 1994?

MR. LEONARD: Objection.

A. Absolutely not. Why would he do that? He hated her smoking. He would never do such a thing.

Q. Did you ever hear O.J. Simpson say, complain to Nicole about smoking, in your presence?

A. Yes. Many times.

Q. And what did O.J. Simpson say on those occasions, to Nicole?

A. He said that it was bad for her health and he didn't like the smell. He didn't think it was good for her image publicly. He felt - he said that he was an athlete and he didn't want her, his wife or future wife, to be ruining his image.

martin II

[socaldiva]

*snip*


faye resnicks deposition on nicole reconciliation request to oj.
------------------


Q. Did she then initiate a reconciliation with Mr. Simpson, to your knowledge?

A. Yes, she did.

Q. And did that occur roughly in April of 1993?

A. Yes, it did.



Why are you posting about April of 1993? Nicole left OJ AFTER that.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally Posted by fbgweezer
you are foolish man to think that a loving parent would walk away and let the butcher of his child live happily everafter.

I consider this name calling. so stop.

martin II

Too bad. So sad ~ That the truth continues to hurt you! Get over it! Crybaby!

Weezer wasn't calling you names. What you called me WAS CALLING SOMEONE NAMES!!!! :punch:

Shall I remind everyone just what you called me?

JMO and MOO!!

[sassylassy]

sound like oj only heard the warm up part.

martin II

thats what I was thinking....he only heard 3 mins & hung up! :shrug:

[sassylassy]

What you called me WAS CALLING SOMEONE NAMES!!!! :punch:

Shall I remind everyone just what you called me?

JMO and MOO!!

Do we really need to go down that road again :shrug:

[2L8 4A D8]

Do we really need to go down that road again :shrug:

I guess you agree, poor thing! Maybe you should tell your ***** NG pal to quit all of his whining and crying like a little baby! Last I knew, he was supposed to be an old man! :shrug:

JMO and MOO!!

[sassylassy]

I guess you agree, poor thing! Maybe you should tell your ***** NG pal to quit all of his whining and crying like a little baby! Last I knew, he was supposed to be an old man! :shrug:

JMO and MOO!!

I'm not going to tell Martin anything! WTH am I Martin's keeper????
ummm NO!

your the one still whining & crying like a little baby over what he called you
so why dont you get over it...Let it Go!!


Have some respect for the other posters on this board that dont want to read this endless crap!:mad:

[Suzee10]

suzee

Maby fred should try to get control of the anger instead of being driven by it.

hopefully fred will find other more positive activities to occupy his mind other than the negative feelings he currently experiences from forcing himself to set aside space in his brain for oj. Not healthy at all.imo

martin II


As I said it takes someone who has children to know how Fred feels. It is way more than anger. It is a hurt than is so deep Fred has to do something, so doing something in a lawful and positive manner is better than ripping simpson's head off, which I am sure he has to fight to keep from doing. It is better Fred is going by the law unlike simpson. Murder is against the law!

[2L8 4A D8]

<snipped>

Have some respect for the other posters on this board that dont want to read this endless crap!:mad:

Don't ever tell me what to do or what not to do, Mister Sharing The Love! Isn't that what you said? Yeah, I think it was! LOL! Don't like it? Put me on Ignore then and if you don't want to do that, then don't read my posts! It's not rocket science, it's very simple, duh!

Yes, by means have some respect for the other posters on this board that don't want to read your and your pals' endless cr@p! :rolleyes:

JMO and MOO!!

[martin II]

As I said it takes someone who has children to know how Fred feels. It is way more than anger. It is a hurt than is so deep Fred has to do something, so doing something in a lawful and positive manner is better than ripping simpson's head off, which I am sure he has to fight to keep from doing. It is better Fred is going by the law unlike simpson. Murder is against the law!

suzee

My point is that a good therapist can and do assist people in working through these kind of problems as it is generally accepted by mental health experts that living with this kind of hate/ hurt in not healthy especially since
it will not change what has happened. imo
martin II

[socaldiva]

thats what I was thinking....he only heard 3 mins & hung up! :shrug:


Yeah, he probably hung up after he heard that she was dumping his sorry azz. :tongue:

[martin II]

As I said it takes someone who has children to know how Fred feels. It is way more than anger. It is a hurt than is so deep Fred has to do something, so doing something in a lawful and positive manner is better than ripping simpson's head off, which I am sure he has to fight to keep from doing. It is better Fred is going by the law unlike simpson. Murder is against the law!

Suzee

There are people with 10 children that do not know how fred feels. Only fred knows how he feels.

martin II

[martin II]

thats what I was thinking....he only heard 3 mins & hung up! :shrug:

sassy hi

It took her 30 minutes to DUMP oj by phone.. maby she was not sure as to what she wanted to do/say.

Maby Paula talked in general for a while and on the 29 1/2 minute she told him ' I AM GOING TO LOS VEGAS TODAY, Love Paula.
MARTIN ii

[weezer]

sassy

here is Faye talking about cigarette lighter some say oj gave nicole.haha

Q. Did he encourage Nicole to smoke?

A. No. He put up a sign -

Q. Excuse me?

A. He put up a sign in the bathroom telling her that she couldn't, no smoking.

Q . Do you know if O.J. Simpson ever gave Nicole a gold cigarette lighter?

A. I have never heard of him giving her a gold cigarette lighter.

Q. Do you know whether O.J. Simpson bought a gold cigarette lighter and had his children, Sydney and Justin, give it to Nicole as a birthday present in May of 1994?

MR. LEONARD: Objection.

A. Absolutely not. Why would he do that? He hated her smoking. He would never do such a thing.

Q. Did you ever hear O.J. Simpson say, complain to Nicole about smoking, in your presence?

A. Yes. Many times.

Q. And what did O.J. Simpson say on those occasions, to Nicole?

A. He said that it was bad for her health and he didn't like the smell. He didn't think it was good for her image publicly. He felt - he said that he was an athlete and he didn't want her, his wife or future wife, to be ruining his image.

martin II

here is orenthal talking about the lighter he gave Nicole in May just before he murdered her in June:
"Q: Okay. And where did you buy this cigarette lighter you gave Nicole
for her birthday?
A: Cartier.
Q: Okay. And she kept that?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. You didn't generally like Nicole smoking, did you?
A: No.
Q: In fact you had a no smoking sign in your bathroom at Rockingham?
A: No.
Q: Her bathroom?
A: No. "
http://www.cch.kcl.ac.uk/legacy/teaching/av1000/textanalysis/oj/ojsimpson2.txt

[socaldiva]

sassy hi

It took her 30 minutes to DUMP oj by phone.. maby she was not sure as to what she wanted to do/say.

Maby Paula talked in general for a while and on the 29 1/2 minute she told him ' I AM GOING TO LOS VEGAS TODAY, Love Paula.
MARTIN ii

Maby it took her 30 minutes to tell him what a loser he was. The list was pretty long :tongue:

[weezer]

Maby it took her 30 minutes to tell him what a loser he was. The list was pretty long :tongue:

LOL -- IIRC, orenthal called his message number more than once -- maybe he could only take "You're a loser" in small doses? :eek:

[socaldiva]

LOL -- IIRC, orenthal called his message number more than once -- maybe he could only take "You're a loser" in small doses? :eek:

Could be. Isn't it fun to play the assume game? :D

[bobaugust]

Triumph of Justice,
"Was this murder the result of a long standing plan, or one formulated on the night it was committed?

The critical variable, was "estrangement."

When Nicole didn't invite Simpson to sit with her at Sydney's dance recital, when she declined to invite him to join them at Mezzaluna, she made a public declaration of her independence and embarrassed him in front of friends and family.

A rebuff equals incitement to murder?" Don (Dutton) made a cogent argument for how O.J. Simpson would have overreacted to rejection. His overweening ego and controlling behavior masked a fundamentally flawed, insecure, and extremely immature personality. To such an unstable man, violence would seem a justifiable means of reestablishing control.

What I wondered silently, why would these snubs, this evening have proved so incendiary? Two years earlier, Nicole had divorced him, a development that he appeared to take with comparative equanimity. I suspected that there had to have been something else that incited him-and that it had to do with a string of calls made from the cell phone in his Bronco that night to Paula Barbieri. Paula, of course was continuing to elude us, so I didn't know for sure what had gone down. But my guess was that Simpson's frustration over his inability to reach her that night had spilled over in rage against Nicole. The first time Nicole dumped him, he had Paula to catch him. The second time, he went into free fall.

The (criminal) defense knew that Paula had called Simpson's cellular phone to break up with him the day Nicole died. She'd left a strong message on his voice mail, but the cops, not knowing this, never questioned Barbieri about the call.

Paula's message was long (8 minutes). She told him she was in Las Vegas and she was ending their relationship.

In his initial statement Simpson had repeatedly said that the recital ended about 6:30. He told how he and Browns said their good byes outside and then he left and went home.

The Browns left and went to the Mezzaluna Restaurant for dinner. They arrived about fifteen to twenty minutes late for their 6:30 reservations. Simpson drove directly home.

By the time of the civil trial, Simpson had his story ready based on all the evidence he knew about. Only he did not know about his telephone records. Simpson said that after he got home he said he checked his answering machine messages and then Kato Kaelin came over.

Simpson was confronted with his telephone records. A 6:56 P.M. a call was placed on Simpson's home phone to his message manager and messages left on his cell phone were call forwarded and listened to. Simpson denied that he made that call or received Paula's message.

Simpson's telephone records showed that another call was made on Simpson's home phone at 8:55 P.M. to his message manager and once again messages left on his cell phone were call forwarded and listened to. Simpson denied making that call.

Dr. Lenore Walker, domestic violence expert for the defense spent sixty plus hours interviewing Simpson in his jail cell. Dr. Walker took contemporaneous notes of her sessions with Simpson. When asked she turned them over to the plaintiffs attorneys. "Among other findings, Dr. Walker freely admitted Simpson was a spousal batterer and Nicole a battered spouse. Simpson had also told her that he had, indeed, picked up Paula's message and that he had called Paula on the night of June 12 from his car.

Dr. Walker's notes read:

"'Called Paula, not home, Call forward on car phone message from Paula, Whole long message about golf, Don't see you. He's not sure if in Arizona or Las Vegas, or if angry with him. He listens to message. Kato goes by house.'"

December 14, 1995 Paula Barbieri

Q. So you as you sit here today, do you have any knowledge that you informed Mr. Simpson that you were going, on June 12, 1994, to Las Vegas on that day?
A. No.

Q. So it's your belief that he had picked up your earlier message of 7 o'clock (A.M.). Correct?
A. I assume.
Q. That's your belief?
A. Yes, sir.

bobaugust

[weezer]

Triumph of Justice,
"Was this murder the result of a long standing plan, or one formulated on the night it was committed?

The critical variable, was "estrangement."

When Nicole didn't invite Simpson to sit with her at Sydney's dance recital, when she declined to invite him to join them at Mezzaluna, she made a public declaration of her independence and embarrassed him in front of friends and family.

A rebuff equals incitement to murder?" Don (Dutton) made a cogent argument for how O.J. Simpson would have overreacted to rejection. His overweening ego and controlling behavior masked a fundamentally flawed, insecure, and extremely immature personality. To such an unstable man, violence would seem a justifiable means of reestablishing control.

What I wondered silently, why would these snubs, this evening have proved so incendiary? Two years earlier, Nicole had divorced him, a development that he appeared to take with comparative equanimity. I suspected that there had to have been something else that incited him-and that it had to do with a string of calls made from the cell phone in his Bronco that night to Paula Barbieri. Paula, of course was continuing to elude us, so I didn't know for sure what had gone down. But my guess was that Simpson's frustration over his inability to reach her that night had spilled over in rage against Nicole. The first time Nicole dumped him, he had Paula to catch him. The second time, he went into free fall.

The (criminal) defense knew that Paula had called Simpson's cellular phone to break up with him the day Nicole died. She'd left a strong message on his voice mail, but the cops, not knowing this, never questioned Barbieri about the call.

Paula's message was long (8 minutes). She told him she was in Las Vegas and she was ending their relationship.

In his initial statement Simpson had repeatedly said that the recital ended about 6:30. He told how he and Browns said their good byes outside and then he left and went home.

The Browns left and went to the Mezzaluna Restaurant for dinner. They arrived about fifteen to twenty minutes late for their 6:30 reservations. Simpson drove directly home.

By the time of the civil trial, Simpson had his story ready based on all the evidence he knew about. Only he did not know about his telephone records. Simpson said that after he got home he said he checked his answering machine messages and then Kato Kaelin came over.

Simpson was confronted with his telephone records. A 6:56 P.M. a call was placed on Simpson's home phone to his message manager and messages left on his cell phone were call forwarded and listened to. Simpson denied that he made that call or received Paula's message.

Simpson's telephone records showed that another call was made on Simpson's home phone at 8:55 P.M. to his message manager and once again messages left on his cell phone were call forwarded and listened to. Simpson denied making that call.

Dr. Lenore Walker, domestic violence expert for the defense spent sixty plus hours interviewing Simpson in his jail cell. Dr. Walker took contemporaneous notes of her sessions with Simpson. When asked she turned them over to the plaintiffs attorneys. "Among other findings, Dr. Walker freely admitted Simpson was a spousal batterer and Nicole a battered spouse. Simpson had also told her that he had, indeed, picked up Paula's message and that he had called Paula on the night of June 12 from his car.

Dr. Walker's notes read:

"'Called Paula, not home, Call forward on car phone message from Paula, Whole long message about golf, Don't see you. He's not sure if in Arizona or Las Vegas, or if angry with him. He listens to message. Kato goes by house.'"

December 14, 1995 Paula Barbieri

Q. So you as you sit here today, do you have any knowledge that you informed Mr. Simpson that you were going, on June 12, 1994, to Las Vegas on that day?
A. No.

Q. So it's your belief that he had picked up your earlier message of 7 o'clock (A.M.). Correct?
A. I assume.
Q. That's your belief?
A. Yes, sir.

bobaugust

thank you bob

[socaldiva]

I find the 8 minute message much more believable than a 30 minute message.

Also, how do the NG's explain Lenore Walker's findings, considering she was working for the DEFENSE?

Dr. Lenore Walker, domestic violence expert for the defense spent sixty plus hours interviewing Simpson in his jail cell. Dr. Walker took contemporaneous notes of her sessions with Simpson. When asked she turned them over to the plaintiffs attorneys. "Among other findings, Dr. Walker freely admitted Simpson was a spousal batterer and Nicole a battered spouse. Simpson had also told her that he had, indeed, picked up Paula's message and that he had called Paula on the night of June 12 from his car.

[sassylassy]

Don't ever tell me what to do or what not to do, Mister Sharing The Love! Isn't that what you said? Yeah, I think it was! LOL! Don't like it? Put me on Ignore then and if you don't want to do that, then don't read my posts! It's not rocket science, it's very simple, duh!

Yes, by means have some respect for the other posters on this board that don't want to read your and your pals' endless cr@p! :rolleyes:

JMO and MOO!!

Right back at ya girlfriend ;)

[sassylassy]

I find the 8 minute message much more believable than a 30 minute message.

Also, how do the NG's explain Lenore Walker's findings, considering she was working for the DEFENSE?

Dr. Lenore Walker, domestic violence expert for the defense spent sixty plus hours interviewing Simpson in his jail cell. Dr. Walker took contemporaneous notes of her sessions with Simpson. When asked she turned them over to the plaintiffs attorneys. "Among other findings, Dr. Walker freely admitted Simpson was a spousal batterer and Nicole a battered spouse. Simpson had also told her that he had, indeed, picked up Paula's message and that he had called Paula on the night of June 12 from his car.

Didnt Dr. Lenore Walker also say that OJS did not fit the pattern of an abuser?

[Suzee10]

suzee

My point is that a good therapist can and do assist people in working through these kind of problems as it is generally accepted by mental health experts that living with this kind of hate/ hurt in not healthy especially since
it will not change what has happened. imo
martin II


Fred Goldman is not the one that needs a therapist. He is acting in a normal manner, as any parent would. IMO a cold blooded killer with no care for anyone, including his children, would be the candiate for a therapist. He left his children's mom lying a pool of blood, stabbed numerous times with the possibility those children could wake up and come down and find their mom in that condition. He has no heart, soul or compassion for anyone but himself and what he wants. He truly needs mental help, not Fred. Fred lives in hell and simpson is responsible.

[2L8 4A D8]

Right back at ya girlfriend ;)

I am NOT your girlfriend ~ so don't call me such Mister Sharing The Love For About 1/2 Seconds! Thank you! It will be wonderful not to see you posting to me anymore! Many thanks! :tongue:

[martin II]

thank you bob

BOB

Well PAULA does not KNOW if oj picked up her message or not. Whether he picked up all , some or none of this message does not mean that he went into some rage and decided to go kill nicole. He did not seem to be in a rage
when he called Greta Stockdale and informed her that he was available for the first time in a while and suggested that they get togeather on monday upon his return from Chicago.Seems to me he was saying that his deck was clear now to see her.

Nicole did not cause Paula to leave a message to OJ. Why kill Nicole? It makes no sense?

martin II

[martin II]

Fred Goldman is not the one that needs a therapist. He is acting in a normal manner, as any parent would. IMO a cold blooded killer with no care for anyone, including his children, would be the candiate for a therapist. He left his children's mom lying a pool of blood, stabbed numerous times with the possibility those children could wake up and come down and find their mom in that condition. He has no heart, soul or compassion for anyone but himself and what he wants. He truly needs mental help, not Fred. Fred lives in hell and simpson is responsible.

Suzee
NO ONE is responsible for what Fred does but Fred.Everyone is responsible for their own actions or conduct. To claim that because Fred thinks OJ did someting it is ok for Fred to engage in self destructive behavior is in itself unhealthy thinking.imo
martin II

[socaldiva]

Suzee
NO ONE is responsible for what Fred does but Fred.Everyone is responsible for their own actions or conduct. To claim that because Fred thinks OJ did someting it is ok for Fred to engage in self destructive behavior is in itself unhealthy thinking.imo
martin II

What "self destructive behavior"? I think you are thinking of Orenthal :rolleyes:

[bobaugust]

BOB

Well PAULA does not KNOW if oj picked up her message or not. Whether he picked up all , some or none of this message does not mean that he went into some rage and decided to go kill nicole. He did not seem to be in a rage
when he called Greta Stockdale and informed her that he was available for the first time in a while and suggested that they get togeather on monday upon his return from Chicago.Seems to me he was saying that his deck was clear now to see her.

Nicole did not cause Paula to leave a message to OJ. Why kill Nicole? It makes no sense?

martin II

martin II, Your comments are what doesn't make any sense. You argue the evidence that Simpson listened to Paula's message doesn't mean he listened to her message. The message that Simpson left for Gretchen Stockdale is evidence that he did hear Paula's message. Based on the message Simpson left for Paula, she believed he was responding to her message.

The fact is that Cochran hid this from the criminal trial jury, so evidently it made sense to him. The fact is that Simpson outright lied about this in the civil trial, so it evidently made sense to him.

bobaugust

[weezer]

Didnt Dr. Lenore Walker also say that OJS did not fit the pattern of an abuser?

actually, her notes from meeting with orenthal said exactly the opposite. She wrote that he fit the profile of a batterer and Nicole fit the profile of a battered spouse.

[weezer]

here is orenthal talking about the lighter he gave Nicole in May just before he murdered her in June:
"Q: Okay. And where did you buy this cigarette lighter you gave Nicole
for her birthday?
A: Cartier.
Q: Okay. And she kept that?
A: Yes.
Q: Okay. You didn't generally like Nicole smoking, did you?
A: No.
Q: In fact you had a no smoking sign in your bathroom at Rockingham?
A: No.
Q: Her bathroom?
A: No. "
http://www.cch.kcl.ac.uk/legacy/teaching/av1000/textanalysis/oj/ojsimpson2.txt

martin, you didn't respond to my post. :shrug:

[sassylassy]

I am NOT your girlfriend ~ so don't call me such Mister Sharing The Love For About 1/2 Seconds! Thank you! It will be wonderful not to see you posting to me anymore! Many thanks! :tongue:

I'm not going anywhere :tongue:
So you will have to deal with it!

:seeya: see ya on the boards!

[sassylassy]

actually, her notes from meeting with orenthal said exactly the opposite. She wrote that he fit the profile of a batterer and Nicole fit the profile of a battered spouse.

But did she not say that OJS didnt fit the profile & then later said he did?
:shrug:

[weezer]

But did she not say that OJS didnt fit the profile & then later said he did?
:shrug:

after meeting with orenthal for approximately 60 hours, during which time she wrote that he did in fact fit the profile of a batterer, guess what? the dream team hired her as a consultant. Go figure.

Unfortunately for orenthal, Dr. Walker's contemporaneous notes were forced to be produced in time for the civil trial. And by the time orenthal gave his civil deposition, he says he NOW understands that the things he did to Nicole would be abuse but he didn't think of them that way back then.

[sassylassy]

after meeting with orenthal for approximately 60 hours, during which time she wrote that he did in fact fit the profile of a batterer, guess what? the dream team hired her as a consultant. Go figure.

Unfortunately for orenthal, Dr. Walker's contemporaneous notes were forced to be produced in time for the civil trial. And by the time orenthal gave his civil deposition, he says he NOW understands that the things he did to Nicole would be abuse but he didn't think of them that way back then.

I read this about Dr. Lenore Walker:

ON THE OTHER HAND: Dr. Lenore Walker is the psychologist who pioneered the "battered woman syndrome theory," and the defense had her interview and test Simpson. It was her opinion that although Simpson had battered Nicole at one time, he did not fit the pattern of a batterer who goes on to kill his victim. She believed that the only way that Simpson could have been the murderer is if he committed the crime in a fugue state, and since he did not have a history of such an aberration, that seemed virtually impossible. She did not testify because of tactical considerations by the defense (Larry Schiller,American Tragedy p. 391 - 393).

http://www.wagnerandson.com/oj/abuse.htm

[bobaugust]

I read this about Dr. Lenore Walker:

ON THE OTHER HAND: Dr. Lenore Walker is the psychologist who pioneered the "battered woman syndrome theory," and the defense had her interview and test Simpson. It was her opinion that although Simpson had battered Nicole at one time, he did not fit the pattern of a batterer who goes on to kill his victim. She believed that the only way that Simpson could have been the murderer is if he committed the crime in a fugue state, and since he did not have a history of such an aberration, that seemed virtually impossible. She did not testify because of tactical considerations by the defense (Larry Schiller,American Tragedy p. 391 - 393).

http://www.wagnerandson.com/oj/abuse.htm

sassylassy, the page number posted by Wagner is incorrect as well as what you posted was not a direct quote but Wagner's paraphrasing of what was written, Not impossible, but unlikely.

Page 499 Schiller wrote,
"It is possible, she continued, that he murdered in a disassociate or "fugue" state, a disturbed state that the sufferer cannot afterward recall. Indeed, Walker believed that this was the only possible way O.J. could be guilty. Someone who kills in a fugue state has no sense of being at the murder scene, no memory of the crime. But Walker considered this scenario unlikely: Simpson had no history of fugue states."


American Tragedy Dr. Bernard Yudowitz

"Fewer than 1 percent of murderers are psychologically classified as atypical. In these cases, circumstances trigger an out-of-character response in a normal person. The tragedy happens in a flash. Until the actual moment, the killer assumes himself incapable of murder. Ever. Then, for reasons the murderer himself never understands, he kills.

Once the vicim is dead, the situation is so horrifying to the killer, so inconsistent with his entire personality and history, that he refuses - unconsciously - to admit it occurred.

"The killer enters a deep state of denial. In reality he has done something antithetical to his personality and his values. This could not happen, says the unconscious. Ergo, it did not happen."

bobaugust

[2L8 4A D8]

I'm not going anywhere :tongue:
So you will have to deal with it!

:seeya: see ya on the boards!

I didn't ask or tell you to go anywhere, duh! I just asked you to stop posting to me! Again, it's not rocket science, but you obviously don't get it! Maybe I just need to talk to you like we are in kindergarten before you can understand anything! :eek:

JMO and MOO!!

[martin II]

sassylassy, the page number posted by Wagner is incorrect as well as what you posted was not a direct quote but Wagner's paraphrasing of what was written, Not impossible, but unlikely.

Page 499 Schiller wrote,
"It is possible, she continued, that he murdered in a disassociate or "fugue" state, a disturbed state that the sufferer cannot afterward recall. Indeed, Walker believed that this was the only possible way O.J. could be guilty. Someone who kills in a fugue state has no sense of being at the murder scene, no memory of the crime. But Walker considered this scenario unlikely: Simpson had no history of fugue states."


American Tragedy Dr. Bernard Yudowitz

"Fewer than 1 percent of murderers are psychologically classified as atypical. In these cases, circumstances trigger an out-of-character response in a normal person. The tragedy happens in a flash. Until the actual moment, the killer assumes himself incapable of murder. Ever. Then, for reasons the murderer himself never understands, he kills.

Once the vicim is dead, the situation is so horrifying to the killer, so inconsistent with his entire personality and history, that he refuses - unconsciously - to admit it occurred.

"The killer enters a deep state of denial. In reality he has done something antithetical to his personality and his values. This could not happen, says the unconscious. Ergo, it did not happen."

bobaugust


bob
Dr yudowitz never interviewed OJ SIMPSON and therefore would know nothing in order to diagnose anything about him. So he is giving general information about a condition. nothing to do with oj simpson. imo

martinII

[weezer]

bob
Dr yudowitz never interviewed OJ SIMPSON and therefore would know nothing in order to diagnose anything about him. So he is giving general information about a condition. nothing to do with oj simpson. imo

martinII

so you agree that Walker -- who did interview orenthal -- knew what she was writing when she said orenthal fit the profile of a batterer and Nicole fit the profile of a battered spouse?

[martin II]

so you agree that Walker -- who did interview orenthal -- knew what she was writing when she said orenthal fit the profile of a batterer and Nicole fit the profile of a battered spouse?

weezer
Again you are transposing what i said and posting "so you agree that walker"--- more attempts to twist what i said.
I did not say that.
I am sure walker knew WHAT she wrote. whether i agree is another issue.

I understand that you may beleive that every male batterer kills his mate but i don't believe that either.

martin II

[n.n]

bob
Dr yudowitz never interviewed OJ SIMPSON and therefore would know nothing in order to diagnose anything about him. So he is giving general information about a condition. nothing to do with oj simpson. imo

martinII

He's not even diagnosing Mr. Simpson; he simply lumps him together in a group with other murderers to whom his observations may apply. It is strange that bobaugust chose a statement in which a shrink ascribes healthy personalities and even personal values to killers -- characteristics that bobaugust and others here DO NOT associate with the coldblooded, premeditating killer they see in Mr. Simpson.

[martin II]

He's not even diagnosing Mr. Simpson; he simply lumps him together in a group with other murderers to whom his observations may apply. It is strange that bobaugust chose a statement in which a shrink ascribes healthy personalities and even personal values to killers -- characteristics that bobaugust and others here DO NOT associate with the coldblooded, premeditating killer they see in Mr. Simpson.

n.n.


very sharp observation on your part.
martin II

[weezer]

weezer
Again you are transposing what i said and posting "so you agree that walker"--- more attempts to twist what i said.
I did not say that.
I am sure walker knew WHAT she wrote. whether i agree is another issue.

I understand that you may beleive that every male batterer kills his mate but i don't believe that either.

martin II

you serously need to do some research on domestic violence --

[martin II]

you serously need to do some research on domestic violence --

weezer

It may be that you have more knowledge/experience with domestic abuse than i do. My experience is limited to what i have read and personally assisting two different female friends in getting away from their batterer and into a womens battered shelter.
In neither of these cases did the batterer kill anyone.

I think that you speed too much time telling others what they should do and not enough time advising yourself.
imo
martin II

[bobaugust]

bob
Dr yudowitz never interviewed OJ SIMPSON and therefore would know nothing in order to diagnose anything about him. So he is giving general information about a condition. nothing to do with oj simpson. imo

martinII

martin II, Dr. Bernard Yudowitz was hired by the defense to evaluate Simpson. He interviewed Simpson on November 3 at the L.A. County jail.

bobaugust

[Kayleighjo]

Not all batterers go on to kill, but let's look at the stats this way:

National statistics reveal that every year three to four million women are beaten by their husbands or boyfriends, and every day, four women die as the result of battering.

Of all female homicide victims every year in this country, forty percent are killed by their husbands or boyfriends. That's a big statistic. Almost half.

It's not so much looking at how many batterers kill, but of the women that end up dead how many are the result of battering.

40% is a high number when you're talking about murder.

[martin II]

martin II, Dr. Bernard Yudowitz was hired by the defense to evaluate Simpson. He interviewed Simpson on November 3 at the L.A. County jail.

bobaugust

bob
thanks for the correction.

DID Dr Yudowitz, as a result of his interview of simpson put simpson into that catagory. Did he say that in his professional opinion that is what oj did?

martin II

[weezer]

bob
thanks for the correction.

DID Dr Yudowitz, as a result of his interview of simpson put simpson into that catagory. Did he say that in his professional opinion that is what oj did?

martin II

why don't you tell us what Dr. Yudowitz wrote in his opinion as it concerned orenthal.

[martin II]

why don't you tell us what Dr. Yudowitz wrote in his opinion as it concerned orenthal.

weezer
i asked the questIon of BOB as i don't know what his analysis of oj stated. if he analyzed oj.

if you know you can feel free to share it.imo
martin II

[2L8 4A D8]

why don't you tell us what Dr. Yudowitz wrote in his opinion as it concerned orenthal.

I agree Weezer. Just another baiting question by Martin to try and get the answers from someone else. Then when the poor Poster falls for it and answers his baiting question, Martin then turns it around with the infamous NG "yeah, but!" It's never "Thank you for the info and I stand corrected!" It's always yeah, but and yeah, but and more yeah, buts ~ ad nauseum! :mad:

JMO and MOO!!

[Suzee10]

Suzee
NO ONE is responsible for what Fred does but Fred.Everyone is responsible for their own actions or conduct. To claim that because Fred thinks OJ did someting it is ok for Fred to engage in self destructive behavior is in itself unhealthy thinking.imo
martin II

Fred, like thousands, understood the evidence and with common sense knew simpson was guilty of murdering his child. He is not engaging in self destructive behavior, he is doing the same as any parent would do, seek justice in what ever manner they could for their child.

[socaldiva]

weezer
i asked the questIon of BOB as i don't know what his analysis of oj stated. if he analyzed oj.

if you know you can feel free to share it.imo
martin II

Instead of asking Bob & FBG to do your research for you, why don't you :read: ??

[martin II]

why don't you tell us what Dr. Yudowitz wrote in his opinion as it concerned orenthal.

WEEZER

I have looked for Dr YUDOWITZ'S report on his interview of OJ simpson but have not found it in trial testimony or doc. received by the court.
If you find it anyplace please share.
martin II

[sassylassy]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed already :shrug:
but this has to be a bad joke that got out of hand?
or maybe not even true :shrug:


There's another man hinting that he could be the father of Anna Nicole Smith's baby daughter - OJ Simpson.

The former NFL star allegedly told documentary filmmaker Norm Pardo - who filmed 70 hours of footage with him from 2000 to 2005 - that he was "throwing his hat into the ring" regarding the paternity battle.

According to Pardo, Simpson said "he knew Anna Nicole pretty well, and he said he had slow-moving genes* and he might be the father."

Simpson appeared in the 1994 film "The Naked Gun 33 1/3" with Smith.

Pardo says Simpson also joked that he didn't want to be officially named as Dannielynn's dad because that would prompt Fred Goldman - father of Ron Goldman, who is pursuing Simpson for damages after winning a multi-million dollar civil suit over the murder of his son - to go after Smith's fortunes.



http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-ojanna,0,7544097.story?coll=ktla-news-1
*changed

[sassylassy]

Not all batterers go on to kill, but let's look at the stats this way:

National statistics reveal that every year three to four million women are beaten by their husbands or boyfriends, and every day, four women die as the result of battering.

Of all female homicide victims every year in this country, forty percent are killed by their husbands or boyfriends. That's a big statistic. Almost half.

It's not so much looking at how many batterers kill, but of the women that end up dead how many are the result of battering.

40% is a high number when you're talking about murder.

Thanks Kay for the stats & the info :read:

however some things are different ...Nicole & Oj were Not husband/ wife
or boyfriend/ girlfriend at the time of the murders (last break up was May)

During the year they tried to get back there are no reports of physical abuse :shrug:

now I dont deny there was abuse in the past, but I dont think OJS beat Nicole or mentally abused nicole after News yrs eve (89)

so I dont see how one nite he flew into a rage and killed nicole- that doesnt seem to fit the pattern to me.:shrug:?

[socaldiva]

*snip*
Simpson also joked that he didn't want to be officially named as Dannielynn's dad because that would prompt Fred Goldman - father of Ron Goldman, who is pursuing Simpson for damages after winning a multi-million dollar civil suit over the murder of his son - to go after Smith's fortunes.


Another tasteless remark from the king of poor taste:rolleyes: I doubt ANS would have opted to sleep with a double murderer, even if she were stoned.

[martin II]

Thanks Kay for the stats & the info :read:

however some things are different ...Nicole & Oj were Not husband/ wife
or boyfriend/ girlfriend at the time of the murders (last break up was May)

During the year they tried to get back there are no reports of physical abuse :shrug:

now I dont deny there was abuse in the past, but I dont think OJS beat Nicole or mentally abused nicole after News yrs eve (89)

so I dont see how one nite he flew into a rage and killed nicole- that doesnt seem to fit the pattern to me.:shrug:?

sassy hi
I agree with your post and would like to add:

If oj had this uncontrolable need to have Nicole with him, he would NOT have told her NO when she asked him to allow her to come back.

According to testimony Nicole went from asking to come back one week to wanting to have her freedom for a while longer the next to asking to come back the next week. Cora testified that nicole stated that she knew that eventually she and oj would be togeather forever.

This back and forth by Nicole caused oj to give up on the situation and oj made it clear that he was with Paula at that time.

For me, the IRS letter to her from his lawyer was a clear sign that oj had decided to move on without nicole as this letter told her that she could not expect further help from him.imo

martin II

[Kayleighjo]

Thanks Kay for the stats & the info :read:

however some things are different ...Nicole & Oj were Not husband/ wife
or boyfriend/ girlfriend at the time of the murders (last break up was May)

During the year they tried to get back there are no reports of physical abuse :shrug:

now I dont deny there was abuse in the past, but I dont think OJS beat Nicole or mentally abused nicole after News yrs eve (89)

so I dont see how one nite he flew into a rage and killed nicole- that doesnt seem to fit the pattern to me.:shrug:?

Hi Sassy,

True no physical abuse was reported, but most often times it isn't. Her diary and accounts that she gave to her friends show that OJ Simpson was a very angry man with her in the months leding up to her death.

It is also true that they were not married or boyfriend/girlfriend at the time of her death, but here is another statstic: of all woman killed as the result of a husband or boyfriend that battered them, 80% are killed after they leave the relationship.

[martin II]

Thanks Kay for the stats & the info :read:

however some things are different ...Nicole & Oj were Not husband/ wife
or boyfriend/ girlfriend at the time of the murders (last break up was May)

During the year they tried to get back there are no reports of physical abuse :shrug:

now I dont deny there was abuse in the past, but I dont think OJS beat Nicole or mentally abused nicole after News yrs eve (89)

so I dont see how one nite he flew into a rage and killed nicole- that doesnt seem to fit the pattern to me.:shrug:?


sassy hi
imo
Statistical information is valuable for understanding historical events on the subject and is used by some profliers in trying to predict behavior.

However, there was no proof of abuse by oj simpson in the months, days just prior to 6/12 so the general statistical history of abuse by men in the u.s. towards women cannot be used to suggest or prove oj killed nicole on 6/12.

martin II

[sassylassy]

Hi Sassy,

True no physical abuse was reported, but most often times it isn't. Her diary and accounts that she gave to her friends show that OJ Simpson was a very angry man with her in the months leding up to her death.

It is also true that they were not married or boyfriend/girlfriend at the time of her death, but here is another statstic: of all woman killed as the result of a husband or boyfriend that battered them, 80% are killed after they leave the relationship.

Thanks for the details Kay.

I dont want to come off as insensitive when I discuss the factors of what happened between Nicole & OJ, as I do find the stats alarming & I'm sadden to learn this information.

when you say 80% leave after the relationship ends, then why didnt ojs murder Nicole when they first divorced?:read:

[sassylassy]

Another tasteless remark from the king of poor taste:rolleyes: I doubt ANS would have opted to sleep with a double murderer, even if she were stoned.

I heard Jim Carrey make the same joke on the Today show & for some reason it wasnt all over the news like OJ's joke was .....:shrug: & Jims joke was better. oh well.

[sassylassy]

sassy hi
imo
Statistical information is valuable for understanding historical events on the subject and is used by some profliers in trying to predict behavior.

However, there was no proof of abuse by oj simpson in the months, days just prior to 6/12 so the general statistical history of abuse by men in the u.s. towards women cannot be used to suggest or prove oj killed nicole on 6/12.

martin II

Didnt Oj & Nicole have a legal arrangement after the 89 incident
that their prenuptial agreement would be voided if OJS physically harmed Nicole again?

[sassylassy]

Thanks for the details Kay.

I dont want to come off as insensitive when I discuss the factors of what happened between Nicole & OJ, as I do find the stats alarming & I'm sadden to learn this information.

when you say 80% are killed after they leave the relationship , then why didnt ojs murder Nicole when they first divorced?:read:

(correction in red)

[Suzee10]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed already :shrug:
but this has to be a bad joke that got out of hand?
or maybe not even true :shrug:


There's another man hinting that he could be the father of Anna Nicole Smith's baby daughter - OJ Simpson.

The former NFL star allegedly told documentary filmmaker Norm Pardo - who filmed 70 hours of footage with him from 2000 to 2005 - that he was "throwing his hat into the ring" regarding the paternity battle.

According to Pardo, Simpson said "he knew Anna Nicole pretty well, and he said he had slow-moving genes* and he might be the father."

Simpson appeared in the 1994 film "The Naked Gun 33 1/3" with Smith.

Pardo says Simpson also joked that he didn't want to be officially named as Dannielynn's dad because that would prompt Fred Goldman - father of Ron Goldman, who is pursuing Simpson for damages after winning a multi-million dollar civil suit over the murder of his son - to go after Smith's fortunes.



http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-ojanna,0,7544097.story?coll=ktla-news-1
*changed



Oh please!!! simpson only wishes he could have had Anna Nicole.

[Suzee10]

I read this about Dr. Lenore Walker:

ON THE OTHER HAND: Dr. Lenore Walker is the psychologist who pioneered the "battered woman syndrome theory," and the defense had her interview and test Simpson. It was her opinion that although Simpson had battered Nicole at one time, he did not fit the pattern of a batterer who goes on to kill his victim. She believed that the only way that Simpson could have been the murderer is if he committed the crime in a fugue state, and since he did not have a history of such an aberration, that seemed virtually impossible. She did not testify because of tactical considerations by the defense (Larry Schiller,American Tragedy p. 391 - 393).

http://www.wagnerandson.com/oj/abuse.htm


That was a very stupid thing for her to say. Any batterer can be a potential killer. All he has to do is go too far.

[socaldiva]

I heard Jim Carrey make the same joke on the Today show & for some reason it wasnt all over the news like OJ's joke was .....:shrug: & Jims joke was better. oh well.

Well, just off the top of my head I'd say maybe it's because Jim Carrey isn't a wife beating, double murdering cable thief. OJ is vile, Jim Carrey isn't.

[martin II]

Didnt Oj & Nicole have a legal arrangement after the 89 incident
that their prenuptial agreement would be voided if OJS physically harmed Nicole again?

sassy hi

thats true.

martin II

[socaldiva]

What good does a voided prenup do if you are dead?

[martin II]

Oh please!!! simpson only wishes he could have had Anna Nicole.

you think it was difficult?

[martin II]

I heard Jim Carrey make the same joke on the Today show & for some reason it wasnt all over the news like OJ's joke was .....:shrug: & Jims joke was better. oh well.

sassy
hi

well so far there are five that have claimed the same on camera to be the father and there may be more in the wings.

martin II

[martin II]

(correction in red)

sassy

Is this 80% of cases where abuse was determined by some court ? how are these abuse claims determined?
martin II

[socaldiva]

sassy
hi

well so far there are five that have claimed the same on camera to be the father and there may be more in the wings.

martin II


Gee, do you think none of us have access to this information? It doesn't mean that their stories are true either. I guess you think it's written in stone.

None of the 5 were double murderers though, WTH would ANS want to sleep with that vile creature?

[sassylassy]

sassy hi

thats true.

martin II

Thats what I thought.

I think the physical abuse stopped after that time frame.
imo jmo :read:

[sassylassy]

sassy
hi

well so far there are five that have claimed the same on camera to be the father and there may be more in the wings.

martin II

isnt it just completely insane, I have never seen anything like it in my life!

one thing forsure Oj is not the baby father.:) lol.

[sassylassy]

Gee, do you think none of us have access to this information? It doesn't mean that their stories are true either. I guess you think it's written in stone.

None of the 5 were double murderers though, WTH would ANS want to sleep with that vile creature?


I have no idea if Oj ever had an affair w/ Anna Nicole, but it seems like in Hollywood everyone gets around with each other at some point (imo moo)

Anna Nicole & Oj filmed Naked Gun 33 1/3: The Final Insult in 94, before the murders.

:read:

[jotun]

I have no idea if Oj ever had an affair w/ Anna Nicole, but it seems like in Hollywood everyone gets around with each other at some point (imo moo)

Anna Nicole & Oj filmed Naked Gun 33 1/3: The Final Insult in 94, before the murders.

:read:

sassy,
Don't know if they had an affair either.
But Anna was one of US.
Anna was one of the few people who publicly spoke-up for O.J. Saw her on one of those entertainment events back then.Someone said something about Kato.
Anna said "is he here? I find him I'll slap him silly.O.J.took him in. He betrayed O.J.
I LOVE O.J.!!!
O.J.IS A SWEET MAN!!
I KNOW O.J.IS INNOCENT.........."

jotun

[socaldiva]

*snip*
Anna said "is he here? I find him I'll slap him silly.O.J.took him in. He betrayed O.J.
I LOVE O.J.!!!
O.J.IS A SWEET MAN!!
I KNOW O.J.IS INNOCENT.........."



I don't know if Anna actually said any of these things, but if she did, you have to keep in mind she was a drug addict. :rolleyes:

[martin II]

sassy,
Don't know if they had an affair either.
But Anna was one of US.
Anna was one of the few people who publicly spoke-up for O.J. Saw her on one of those entertainment events back then.Someone said something about Kato.
Anna said "is he here? I find him I'll slap him silly.O.J.took him in. He betrayed O.J.
I LOVE O.J.!!!
O.J.IS A SWEET MAN!!
I KNOW O.J.IS INNOCENT.........."

jotun

jotun
one of Nicoles/Robin Greer's friends was a stand in for ANS in that movie with OJ.

[martin II]

isnt it just completely insane, I have never seen anything like it in my life!

one thing forsure Oj is not the baby father.:) lol.

syssy
hi

i have never seem men elbowing others out of camera view claiming responsibility and begging to be alowed to change diapers prepare milk bottles and walk a crying baby at 2 am

it is insane
martin II

[Kayleighjo]

Thanks for the details Kay.

I dont want to come off as insensitive when I discuss the factors of what happened between Nicole & OJ, as I do find the stats alarming & I'm sadden to learn this information.

when you say 80% leave after the relationship ends, then why didnt ojs murder Nicole when they first divorced?:read:

You're welcome Sassy.

I don't think you come off as insensitive, I think you say what's on your mind and you're not afraid to ask questions and even more than that I think you're not afraid of the answers ... and that's admirable.

To answer your question though ... and I have to preface this by saying it's my opinion ... I think that at the time of the divorce that neither OJ or Nicole really believed that it was over. They continued to be, in some capacity, a part of each other's lives and I do believe that OJ made himself okay with that to a point. I think what angered him in the end so much was the fact that he was finally moving on and Nicole came back begging him for another chance. She said she wanted to put their family back together and he agreed to do it so he dumped Paula and took Nicole back. Once that happened he got really controlling of her and angry about the other men she had been with ... especially her affair with Marcus Allen. Then she left him again and I believe he was humiliated and angry. She'd already left him once, and it was very public. He bragged to everyone that he had his wife back and then she went and left him a second time after he gave up his new life for her. And the second time she left him was different. Everyone said that despite all of their breakups that this one seemed very different ... as though she had finally cut him out and it was the real end.

I think it really pissed him off.

[martin II]

Thats what I thought.

I think the physical abuse stopped after that time frame.
imo jmo :read:


sassy hi

On Friday, Simpson spoke of the messy end of his relationship with Ms. Simpson, saying that in the months before her murder she was volatile, obsessive, unpredictable.

"I didn't know who I was talking to from day to day. She was loving one day, upset about something the next day."

He said she followed him around, harassed his maid and called him just to yell at him.

Just days before her murder, Simpson ordered his maid and personal assistant to take calls from Ms. Simpson only if they dealt with the couple's children, Sydney and Justin.

"I just felt I needed to separate myself from her," he said. "It seemed to be problem after problem after problem."

Simpson said it came to a head when his ex-wife yelled at him on the phone about the seating arrangements for a charity dinner, accusing him of meddling in her life by inviting one of her friends.

"That was pretty much the last straw with me," he said. "I just decided I needed to distance myself."

By The Associated Press

martinII

[martin II]

sassy hi

ps

Cora, in some of her testimony made comments about Nicoles change in behavior during the months/weeks prior to her murder.

When oj and nicole broke up the last time, it did not seem to bother him at all as Paula can back and took the place she held previously as his woman.

On 6/11 at the fancy charity event they looked like a loving couple.

martin II

[tazzybaby]

Thats what I thought.

I think the physical abuse stopped after that time frame.
imo jmo :read:

Hi Sassy,

What makes you think that? Because OJ says so? Why would you believe him over Nicole? And, what about the other witnesses who saw the abuse? And, what about Keith who also witnessed the abuse?

[tazzybaby]

HE LEANED OVER OUR TABLE -- THERE WERE
13 APPROXIMATELY SIX OR EIGHT PEOPLE SITTING AT THE TABLE,
14 FRIENDS OF HERS, MYSELF AND ONE OF MY FRIENDS WHO WAS
15 WORKING AT THE RESTAURANT AT THE TIME WHO I WAS INTRODUCING
16 TO HER FRIENDS.
17 HE LEANED OVER OUR TABLE, RESTED HIS HANDS ON
18 THE TABLE AND SORT OF STARED AT MYSELF AND THE OTHER MALE
19 INDIVIDUAL AT THE TABLE AND INTRODUCED HIMSELF AS MR. O.J.
20 SIMPSON AND REPLIED, "I'M O.J. SIMPSON AND SHE'S STILL MY
21 WIFE."
22 Q. AND WAS HE LOOKING AT YOU WHEN HE SAID THAT?
23 A. YES, HE WAS.
24 Q. AND HE HAD HIS HANDS PLACED ON THE TABLE TOP?
25 A. I CAN'T RECALL IF BOTH HANDS WERE ON THE TABLE
26 TOP OR ONE ON ACTUALLY HER CHAIR AND THE OTHER ON THE
27 TABLE, BUT QUITE IMPOSINGLY LEANING OVER THE TABLE.


http://walraven.org/simpson/gj_pt2.html

I think Simpson was upset that Nicole was dating. Even though he dated while they were still married.

[martin II]

HE LEANED OVER OUR TABLE -- THERE WERE
13 APPROXIMATELY SIX OR EIGHT PEOPLE SITTING AT THE TABLE,
14 FRIENDS OF HERS, MYSELF AND ONE OF MY FRIENDS WHO WAS
15 WORKING AT THE RESTAURANT AT THE TIME WHO I WAS INTRODUCING
16 TO HER FRIENDS.
17 HE LEANED OVER OUR TABLE, RESTED HIS HANDS ON
18 THE TABLE AND SORT OF STARED AT MYSELF AND THE OTHER MALE
19 INDIVIDUAL AT THE TABLE AND INTRODUCED HIMSELF AS MR. O.J.
20 SIMPSON AND REPLIED, "I'M O.J. SIMPSON AND SHE'S STILL MY
21 WIFE."
22 Q. AND WAS HE LOOKING AT YOU WHEN HE SAID THAT?
23 A. YES, HE WAS.
24 Q. AND HE HAD HIS HANDS PLACED ON THE TABLE TOP?
25 A. I CAN'T RECALL IF BOTH HANDS WERE ON THE TABLE
26 TOP OR ONE ON ACTUALLY HER CHAIR AND THE OTHER ON THE
27 TABLE, BUT QUITE IMPOSINGLY LEANING OVER THE TABLE.


http://walraven.org/simpson/gj_pt2.html

I think Simpson was upset that Nicole was dating. Even though he dated while they were still married.

tazzy hi
who is testifying here
martin II

[sassylassy]

sassy,
Don't know if they had an affair either.
But Anna was one of US.
Anna was one of the few people who publicly spoke-up for O.J. Saw her on one of those entertainment events back then.Someone said something about Kato.
Anna said "is he here? I find him I'll slap him silly.O.J.took him in. He betrayed O.J.
I LOVE O.J.!!!
O.J.IS A SWEET MAN!!
I KNOW O.J.IS INNOCENT.........."

jotun


Hi Jotun

Thanks for the story, I didnt know Anna spoke about ojs & the case back then. :beer: :read:

[socaldiva]

*snip*
On Friday, Simpson spoke of the messy end of his relationship with Ms. Simpson, saying that in the months before her murder she was volatile, obsessive, unpredictable.

"

More "OJ says" :tongue: Not only does he kill her & pretend he didn't, but he's got to make up lies about her behavior to make it look like someone else killed her. What a jerk! :rolleyes:

[sassylassy]

You're welcome Sassy.

I don't think you come off as insensitive, I think you say what's on your mind and you're not afraid to ask questions and even more than that I think you're not afraid of the answers ... and that's admirable.

To answer your question though ... and I have to preface this by saying it's my opinion ... I think that at the time of the divorce that neither OJ or Nicole really believed that it was over. They continued to be, in some capacity, a part of each other's lives and I do believe that OJ made himself okay with that to a point. I think what angered him in the end so much was the fact that he was finally moving on and Nicole came back begging him for another chance. She said she wanted to put their family back together and he agreed to do it so he dumped Paula and took Nicole back. Once that happened he got really controlling of her and angry about the other men she had been with ... especially her affair with Marcus Allen. Then she left him again and I believe he was humiliated and angry. She'd already left him once, and it was very public. He bragged to everyone that he had his wife back and then she went and left him a second time after he gave up his new life for her. And the second time she left him was different. Everyone said that despite all of their breakups that this one seemed very different ... as though she had finally cut him out and it was the real end.

I think it really pissed him off.


That's a nice compliment, Thank you! :beer:

you make some good points, but what I'm wondering is how did OJS ever predict that Nicole would come back to him, how was he able to control this rage....

assuming Nicole would come back seems like a big gamble..

do u know what I mean?:read:

[sassylassy]

More "OJ says" :tongue: Not only does he kill her & pretend he didn't, but he's got to make up lies about her behavior to make it look like someone else killed her. What a jerk! :rolleyes:

why is it so hard to believe Nicole would have acted that way?

I'm sure she did. Most women that decide to end a relationship arent going to be chipper everyday-especially towards their mate!:shrug:

IMO MOO

[sassylassy]

Hi Sassy,

What makes you think that? Because OJ says so? Why would you believe him over Nicole? And, what about the other witnesses who saw the abuse? And, what about Keith who also witnessed the abuse?


I think that because there are no reports of Physical Abuse since that time?

what Physical abuse did Keith witness? :read:

[sassylassy]

(SNIP)
HE LEANED OVER OUR TABLE, RESTED HIS HANDS ON
THE TABLE AND SORT OF STARED AT MYSELF AND THE OTHER MALE
INDIVIDUAL AT THE TABLE AND INTRODUCED HIMSELF AS MR. O.J.
SIMPSON AND REPLIED, "I'M O.J. SIMPSON AND SHE'S STILL MY WIFE."
Q. AND WAS HE LOOKING AT YOU WHEN HE SAID THAT?

I think Simpson was upset that Nicole was dating. Even though he dated while they were still married.


it sounds like ojs was trying to intimidate Keith, a male ego thing imo.

I personally would be more concerned if OJS started to throw some punches!

& I agree, I'm sure ojs was upset about losing Nicole. Most ppl are when they end a relationship, even more so when your dumped one!

but did ojs not shake Keiths hand at one time- to say they were "cool" w/ each other?

:shrug: :read:

[socaldiva]

why is it so hard to believe Nicole would have acted that way?

I'm sure she did. Most women that decide to end a relationship arent going to be chipper everyday-especially towards their mate!:shrug:

IMO MOO

There's a big difference between not being "chipper" & being "volatile, obsessive & unpredicatable". OJ is a proven liar & everything that comes out of his mouth is self-serving. imo

[sassylassy]

There's a big difference between not being "chipper" & being "volatile, obsessive & unpredicatable". OJ is a proven liar & everything that comes out of his mouth is self-serving. imo


volatile:something changing or changeable

unpredicatable: Something difficult or impossible to foretell or foresee

obsessive:to broad to know the exact meaning.


Lets also keep in mind Nicole was known to hold her own, she was no push over! (my kinda gal :cool: )

& I'm sure during the time she wasnt a happy camper.

imo moo

[socaldiva]

*snip*
volatile:something changing or changeable

unpredicatable: Something difficult or impossible to foretell or foresee

obsessive:to broad to know the exact meaning.



Thanks for the definititions, but they weren't necessary. I'm familiar with each of those words & their meanings, but perhaps you don't know of these alternate meanings. I think they are the ones OJ was getting at:


Volatile also means: tending to erupt into violence : explosive <a volatile temper>.

Since you couldn't find a meaning for obsessive, here's one:

a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling;

Just more OJ talking cr@p about Nicole. IMO

[sassylassy]

Thanks for the definititions, but they weren't necessary. I'm familiar with each of those words & their meanings, but perhaps you don't know of these alternate meanings. I think they are the ones OJ was getting at:


Volatile also means: tending to erupt into violence : explosive <a volatile temper>.

Since you couldn't find a meaning for obsessive, here's one:

a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling;

Just more OJ talking cr@p about Nicole. IMO

I found to many meanings for "obsessive" so I couldnt just pick one & just assume thats what ojs meant :read:

How can you not think Nicole would have been conflicted with many types of emotions, why would you think that crap?

as a woman I think its pretty normal myself!

[socaldiva]

*snip*
How can you not think Nicole would have been conflicted with many types of emotions, why would you think that cr*p?

as a woman I think its pretty normal myself!

Because OJ lies about so many things & seems to have just chosen negative adjectives to describe her behavior in the months leading up to the murders & IIRC others that knew her said that she felt good about finally making the break from him & the prospect of moving out of the area & away from him.

[n.n]

You're welcome Sassy.

I don't think you come off as insensitive, I think you say what's on your mind and you're not afraid to ask questions and even more than that I think you're not afraid of the answers ... and that's admirable.

To answer your question though ... and I have to preface this by saying it's my opinion ... I think that at the time of the divorce that neither OJ or Nicole really believed that it was over. They continued to be, in some capacity, a part of each other's lives and I do believe that OJ made himself okay with that to a point. I think what angered him in the end so much was the fact that he was finally moving on and Nicole came back begging him for another chance. She said she wanted to put their family back together and he agreed to do it so he dumped Paula and took Nicole back. Once that happened he got really controlling of her and angry about the other men she had been with ... especially her affair with Marcus Allen. Then she left him again and I believe he was humiliated and angry. She'd already left him once, and it was very public. He bragged to everyone that he had his wife back and then she went and left him a second time after he gave up his new life for her. And the second time she left him was different. Everyone said that despite all of their breakups that this one seemed very different ... as though she had finally cut him out and it was the real end.

I think it really pissed him off.

Now, honestly, does a woman who fears for her life behave like that? I say no. I would have tried very hard not to piss such a "violent" person off. There are so many discrepancies in the story that undermine the batterer story.
I think Mr. Simpson was telling the true story when he said that his wife tried to control him by spreading exaggerated versions of his abuse. I could very well imagine that she did it also as part of her plot to get her (and Fayes) hands on his money. I don't claim that he did not hurt her at several occasions, but I think the incidents were not as grave as they were made to look. JMO

[socaldiva]

*snip* I don't claim that he did not hurt her at several occasions, but I think the incidents were not as grave as they were made to look. JMO

I see, he hurt her just a little? I guess the photographs & police descriptions were doctored in a big conspiracy to bring down the sports hero.

He had no business hurting her at all, ever!

[n.n]

More "OJ says" :tongue: Not only does he kill her & pretend he didn't, but he's got to make up lies about her behavior to make it look like someone else killed her. What a jerk! :rolleyes:

How are we to know that he "made up lies?"

[socaldiva]

How are we to know that he "made up lies?"

Have you ever read his testimony from the civil trial? It's chock full of lies :tongue:

[n.n]

I see, he hurt her just a little? I guess the photographs & police descriptions were doctored in a big conspiracy to bring down the sports hero.

He had no business hurting her at all, ever!

From what I've seen of Mrs. Simpson's injuries, they were actually not earth-shaking compared to other women's injuries. And yes, there are different degrees of abuse -- there's no way around it -- and I believe Mrs. Simpson was not in a category with the worst of it. Go ask some emergency personel. There are many websites and books available about that subject.
(Btw. speaking of sports heroes; did you know that Joe DiMaggio once beat Marilyn so that she ended up with a broken jaw? That hero is still worshipped today.)
Nobody has any business in hurting anyone. Unfortunately, Mr. Simpson is not the only one who had problems in that regard, but his problems got blown out of proportion in the media.

[n.n]

What "self destructive behavior"? I think you are thinking of Orenthal :rolleyes:

allowing himself to be eaten up by hatred is self-destructive. Have you ever considered the thousands and thousands of people who are in the same boat with Mr. Goldman? Or even the Browns? Why are they able to grief and let go? There is something unhealthy in Mr. Goldman's attitude.

[socaldiva]

*snip*
From what I've seen of Mrs. Simpson's injuries, they were actually not earth-shaking compared to other women's injuries.

So what? It doesn't have to be the "worst of the worst" to be appalling. Abuse is illegal & immoral, so don't blame the press. The responsiblity lies with the abuser, so don't try to dust if off & make it less ugly than it was.

[socaldiva]

allowing himself to be eaten up by hatred is self-destructive. Have you ever considered the thousands and thousands of people who are in the same boat with Mr. Goldman? Or even the Browns? Why are they able to grief and let go? There is something unhealthy in Mr. Goldman's attitude.

Fred & Kim don't look "eaten up by hatred" to me, this is just one part of their lives & it looks to me as though they've continued living & functioning much better in society than Orenthal. So what that "thousands & thousands" do otherwise? Maybe they don't have the strength & conviction to do what the Goldman's do, but I wouldn't knock them for it. Obviously it's right for the Goldman's & I don't think there's a thing wrong with it.

[Suzee10]

Thats what I thought.

I think the physical abuse stopped after that time frame.
imo jmo :read:


The physical abuse stopped on the night Nicole was murdered by simpson.

[martin II]

it sounds like ojs was trying to intimidate Keith, a male ego thing imo.

I personally would be more concerned if OJS started to throw some punches!

& I agree, I'm sure ojs was upset about losing Nicole. Most ppl are when they end a relationship, even more so when your dumped one!

but did ojs not shake Keiths hand at one time- to say they were "cool" w/ each other?

:shrug: :read:


I guess oj knew that all it would take was a angry face to scare this guy (keith) that was acting like a punk at the table.

martin II

[martin II]

allowing himself to be eaten up by hatred is self-destructive. Have you ever considered the thousands and thousands of people who are in the same boat with Mr. Goldman? Or even the Browns? Why are they able to grief and let go? There is something unhealthy in Mr. Goldman's attitude.

n.n.

Thanks.

most mental health experts will agree with your statement.
martin II

[martin II]

Now, honestly, does a woman who fears for her life behave like that? I say no. I would have tried very hard not to piss such a "violent" person off. There are so many discrepancies in the story that undermine the batterer story.
I think Mr. Simpson was telling the true story when he said that his wife tried to control him by spreading exaggerated versions of his abuse. I could very well imagine that she did it also as part of her plot to get her (and Fayes) hands on his money. I don't claim that he did not hurt her at several occasions, but I think the incidents were not as grave as they were made to look. JMO

some have suggested that the bruises were enhanced by makeup.

martin II

[Kayleighjo]

That's a nice compliment, Thank you! :beer:

you make some good points, but what I'm wondering is how did OJS ever predict that Nicole would come back to him, how was he able to control this rage....

assuming Nicole would come back seems like a big gamble..

do u know what I mean?:read:

I need that beer after the day I had:)

From what I understand after Nicole moved out is that OJ kept on saying that he knew if he just gave her some space and some time to get some need for freedom out of her system that she would come back to him.

I also think that he tried to move forward with his life when he thought that Nicole wasn't ever coming back. He tried to find happiness elsewhere, but no matter how much he liked having Paula around (or any other woman for that matter) no one would ever be Nicole to him.

I can't answer how he controlled his rage. I just think that on the night of June 12th something snapped for him and he was unable to control it then.

So yeah, I do know what you mean.

[Kayleighjo]

The physical abuse stopped on the night Nicole was murdered by simpson.

I LOVE YOU SUZEE! :beer:

[Kayleighjo]

Now, honestly, does a woman who fears for her life behave like that? I say no. I would have tried very hard not to piss such a "violent" person off. There are so many discrepancies in the story that undermine the batterer story.
I think Mr. Simpson was telling the true story when he said that his wife tried to control him by spreading exaggerated versions of his abuse. I could very well imagine that she did it also as part of her plot to get her (and Fayes) hands on his money. I don't claim that he did not hurt her at several occasions, but I think the incidents were not as grave as they were made to look. JMO

You don't think that being strangled, given black eyes and cut lips, and a bruised forehead is grave? Wow,

[Kayleighjo]

How are we to know that he "made up lies?"

We know because of the civil trial where all of his lies were proven. Even his best friend AC contradicted most of the things that OJ testified to.

Everyone loves to hop on the "Fuhrman, Vanatter, and LAPD are liars" bandwagon but they love just as much to hop off when it comes to all of OJ's lies.

Sweet. :rolleyes:

[Kayleighjo]

From what I've seen of Mrs. Simpson's injuries, they were actually not earth-shaking compared to other women's injuries. And yes, there are different degrees of abuse -- there's no way around it -- and I believe Mrs. Simpson was not in a category with the worst of it. Go ask some emergency personel. There are many websites and books available about that subject.
(Btw. speaking of sports heroes; did you know that Joe DiMaggio once beat Marilyn so that she ended up with a broken jaw? That hero is still worshipped today.)
Nobody has any business in hurting anyone. Unfortunately, Mr. Simpson is not the only one who had problems in that regard, but his problems got blown out of proportion in the media.

From what you've seen. Now take what you've seen and multiply it by about a hundred because the worst of what a batterer does is in private and kept under wraps by everyone involved. I don't need to speak with emergency personel or read a website or books because I lived it. I feared for my life on a frequent basis, but the ugly fact is that I might still be with him had he not been killed in a car accident.

Cora Fischman was one of Nicole's best friends and has been one of OJ's biggest supporters. She testified in the civil trial that she never knew Nicole to tell even white lies, that she was always honest. When asked then if she believed that Nicole told the truth in the pages of her diary, Cora responded that yes she did believe that. I believe her words went along the lines of "if the diary was written by Nicole then yes I believe it's true". The worst part after that is that she continued to support OJ.

[Kayleighjo]

some have suggested that the bruises were enhanced by makeup.

martin II

Yeah and undoubtedly you would be one of those.

[tazzybaby]

I think that because there are no reports of Physical Abuse since that time?

what Physical abuse did Keith witness? :read:


Hi Sassy,

Have you ever read up on Abuse? Did you know that MOST incidents are not reported? It was only a few months before her death that she called police for help. She was afraid that he was going to beat the #$*@ out her. Did you also know that physical pain is not the only form of abuse? Did you also know that most abused women take up for their abuser? They hide the abuse so that the abuser won't get in trouble.

Keith witnessed OJ's stalking behavior. Not just one incident. Stalking is a form of abuse. So is controlling behavior.

[tazzybaby]

it sounds like ojs was trying to intimidate Keith, a male ego thing imo.

I personally would be more concerned if OJS started to throw some punches!

& I agree, I'm sure ojs was upset about losing Nicole. Most ppl are when they end a relationship, even more so when your dumped one!

but did ojs not shake Keiths hand at one time- to say they were "cool" w/ each other?

:shrug: :read:

I agree that he was trying to intimidate Keith. But, how did he know Nicole was there? Why would he park and go in JUST TO INTIMIDATE HIM? Isn't that taking it a bit far? He wanted to have girlfriends but Nicole couldn't date anyone?

I do believe that OJ was upset over losing Nicole. But, he has maintained that it was mutual and he wasn't upset over it because he had Paula and other girls. But, that type of behavior shows a different story. And, I also agree that most people are more upset when they are the one "dumped". And, Nicole "dumped" OJ for good a little more than two weeks before her murder. She expressed fear of OJ to several people in the weeks leading up to her murder. She was so afraid that he was going to kill her that she called an abuse hotline, she documented abuse in her diary and she kept the photos in her lockbox so people would believe her. She went through a book about abuse and highlighted the things that applied to her. She told her mother...look I am abused, read this.

And, yes, OJ shook his hand and "acted" like he was cool with everything. But, when he and Nicole ever got in a fight he continually brought up Keith. So, it seems like he was not sincere when he said they were "cool". Keith also felt the same way.

:shrug:

[tazzybaby]

Now, honestly, does a woman who fears for her life behave like that? I say no. I would have tried very hard not to piss such a "violent" person off. There are so many discrepancies in the story that undermine the batterer story.
I think Mr. Simpson was telling the true story when he said that his wife tried to control him by spreading exaggerated versions of his abuse. I could very well imagine that she did it also as part of her plot to get her (and Fayes) hands on his money. I don't claim that he did not hurt her at several occasions, but I think the incidents were not as grave as they were made to look. JMO

Hi nn,

What?! Ever hurting her is completely unacceptable. Why would he have the right to hurt her in any way? He doesn't.

What discrepancies are you speaking of? Why would you think that Nicole would make it up? There is proof of him hurting her. So why would you think that Nicole would just make it up? Because OJ said? Nicole didn't have to "spread exaggerated versions". OJ created the hype by ever abusing her at all. What type of proof do you have that Nicole was trying to get his money? What makes you think that?

[tazzybaby]

From what you've seen. Now take what you've seen and multiply it by about a hundred because the worst of what a batterer does is in private and kept under wraps by everyone involved. I don't need to speak with emergency personel or read a website or books because I lived it. I feared for my life on a frequent basis, but the ugly fact is that I might still be with him had he not been killed in a car accident.

Cora Fischman was one of Nicole's best friends and has been one of OJ's biggest supporters. She testified in the civil trial that she never knew Nicole to tell even white lies, that she was always honest. When asked then if she believed that Nicole told the truth in the pages of her diary, Cora responded that yes she did believe that. I believe her words went along the lines of "if the diary was written by Nicole then yes I believe it's true". The worst part after that is that she continued to support OJ.

Beautifully put! I understand.

:rose:

[martin II]

From what I've seen of Mrs. Simpson's injuries, they were actually not earth-shaking compared to other women's injuries. And yes, there are different degrees of abuse -- there's no way around it -- and I believe Mrs. Simpson was not in a category with the worst of it. Go ask some emergency personel. There are many websites and books available about that subject.
(Btw. speaking of sports heroes; did you know that Joe DiMaggio once beat Marilyn so that she ended up with a broken jaw? That hero is still worshipped today.)
Nobody has any business in hurting anyone. Unfortunately, Mr. Simpson is not the only one who had problems in that regard, but his problems got blown out of proportion in the media.


n.n.

i understand that some abuse victims can see a murderer in every male that
that has ever abused a woman. I don't think it is rational thinking but i understand some do take this position.
martin II

[martin II]

Hi nn,

What?! Ever hurting her is completely unacceptable. Why would he have the right to hurt her in any way? He doesn't.

What discrepancies are you speaking of? Why would you think that Nicole would make it up? There is proof of him hurting her. So why would you think that Nicole would just make it up? Because OJ said? Nicole didn't have to "spread exaggerated versions". OJ created the hype by ever abusing her at all. What type of proof do you have that Nicole was trying to get his money? What makes you think that?

tazzy hi

Rocky bateman reported to oj that he heard Niolce and Faye discussing ways to trick oj out of his money on a ocassion that he was driving them in the limo.This I believe is when oj asked Rocky to follow nicole.

martin II

[tazzybaby]

n.n.

i understand that some abuse victims can see a murderer in every male that
that has ever abused a woman. I don't think it is rational thinking but i understand some do take this position.
martin II

It only makes it very plausible when that woman is found murdered in a way that has indication of rage and anger that the abuser did it. It only helps to understand how and why the abuser could have done it.

I don't think it's rational to think that OJ was not an abuser. Or to think that a little abuse is not that big a deal.

:shrug:

[tazzybaby]

tazzy hi

Rocky bateman reported to oj that he heard Niolce and Faye discussing ways to trick oj out of his money on a ocassion that he was driving them in the limo.This I believe is when oj asked Rocky to follow nicole.

martin II


So, are you saying that nn believes Mario? Have you discussed this with them? If that's the case then I'm sure that he also believes that OJ destroyed evidence including the murder weapon. AC was the one who said the murder weapon is with the fishies.

:cool:

[martin II]

I think oj was wrong for hitting nicole. I appears that she got the worse of the 89 fight. OJ took responsibility for his actions.

To automatically come to the conclusion that he killed her years later because of the 89 incident is not rational thinking. To take the position that oj killed Nicole because of some national statictics on the number of women killed by their ex abusers is nonsense.

Oj was not charged with abuse and was not tried for abuse so abuse had nothing to do with the criminal trial.

Martin II

[martin II]

So, are you saying that nn believes Mario? Have you discussed this with them? If that's the case then I'm sure that he also believes that OJ destroyed evidence including the murder weapon. AC was the one who said the murder weapon is with the fishies.

:cool:

tazzy hi
you know i cannot tell you what n.n. belives. she speaks quite well for herself.

I am not sure AC ever made this statement.
This comment attributed to AC was made by a ex girlfriend that AC had dumped so she had a agenda for making that statement. The prosecution obviously did not believe it as they never made a search "where the fisher were."

martin II

[martin II]

It only makes it very plausible when that woman is found murdered in a way that has indication of rage and anger that the abuser did it. It only helps to understand how and why the abuser could have done it.

I don't think it's rational to think that OJ was not an abuser. Or to think that a little abuse is not that big a deal.

:shrug:

tassy hi

last week a long discussion was held on the subject of whether the killings were a rage killing. The posiiton of one g was that nicole was not killed by a person in a rage. No proof has been presented by any witness that showed oj was in a rage at any time on the evening/night of 6/12.
this includes Kato-- Park-- the limo driver or anyone that saw him at the airport. All said his demeanor was calm and normal.

martin ii

[martin II]

It only makes it very plausible when that woman is found murdered in a way that has indication of rage and anger that the abuser did it. It only helps to understand how and why the abuser could have done it.

I don't think it's rational to think that OJ was not an abuser. Or to think that a little abuse is not that big a deal.

:shrug:

There are people that abuse one or two times and never abuse again. there are people that have abused for longer times and never kill. There are abusers that have killed but this does not mean that a specific abuser will kill.
You need specific proof presented in a trial and the jury . the tryers of fact decides as they did in the oj trial.
martin II

[martin II]

Hi nn,

What?! Ever hurting her is completely unacceptable. Why would he have the right to hurt her in any way? He doesn't.

What discrepancies are you speaking of? Why would you think that Nicole would make it up? There is proof of him hurting her. So why would you think that Nicole would just make it up? Because OJ said? Nicole didn't have to "spread exaggerated versions". OJ created the hype by ever abusing her at all. What type of proof do you have that Nicole was trying to get his money? What makes you think that?

tazzy hi

According to Mario, Rocky was driving Nicole and her girlfriends to the airport in October of 1993 when he overheard them conspire that they "knew a way to get OJ's money." This troubled Rocky to hear, and he told Simpson the next time he saw him. Simpson was alarmed at the report, and asked Rocky if he, or anybody he knew, could follow Nicole, and determine who her friends were.

[tazzybaby]

I think oj was wrong for hitting nicole. I appears that she got the worse of the 89 fight. OJ took responsibility for his actions.

To automatically come to the conclusion that he killed her years later because of the 89 incident is not rational thinking. To take the position that oj killed Nicole because of some national statictics on the number of women killed by their ex abusers is nonsense.

Oj was not charged with abuse and was not tried for abuse so abuse had nothing to do with the criminal trial.

Martin II

I am glad that you think OJ was wrong for hitting Nicole. But, OJ did not take full responsibility. He still lied. He said he didn't hit her. He said he wrestled with her. Does that not bother you? I'm sure you understand why he lied. But, if he lied back then why would you assume he is truthful about it now?

I have never (nor has anyone here that I know of) automatically assume that he killed her because of the 89 incident. I don't even take the position that just because of some statistics he killed her. I believe what Nicole wrote and told people. Why? Because of the 89 incident and the 911 call months before her murder. That's proof that he was abusive and therefore I believe what Nicole wrote. I have NO REASON not to believe Nicole. I believe that he threatened to kill her (as she has said) and I believe she believed he would do it. That just goes to understanding why it happened.

No one has EVER said that OJ was charged with abuse. But, OJ had an image of a squeaky clean hero. That obviously wasn't the case. And, in order to give an understandin of how and why this could have happened it is imperative to look at the abuse.

[tazzybaby]

tazzy hi
you know i cannot tell you what n.n. belives. she speaks quite well for herself.

I am not sure AC ever made this statement.
This comment attributed to AC was made by a ex girlfriend that AC had dumped so she had a agenda for making that statement. The prosecution obviously did not believe it as they never made a search "where the fisher were."

martin II

Hi Martin,

Well, I was wondering if that is where the information came from. I just didn't know why you said it. I was wondering if nn told you this or something.

Why would you say that the prosecution didn't believe it? They didn't know where to search. That doesn't mean they didn't believe it. And, AC is not the only one who made the statement.

[tazzybaby]

tassy hi

last week a long discussion was held on the subject of whether the killings were a rage killing. The posiiton of one g was that nicole was not killed by a person in a rage. No proof has been presented by any witness that showed oj was in a rage at any time on the evening/night of 6/12.
this includes Kato-- Park-- the limo driver or anyone that saw him at the airport. All said his demeanor was calm and normal.

martin ii

Not every g is going to agree with every scenario. Just like most ng have different beliefs on some evidence.

Actually the proof that OJ was in a rage is the murder. Nicole's neck was cut so deep that it nicked the bone.

A rage killing is when someone kills in the heat of passion and are out of control. When Kato, Park and the witnesses at the recital saw him he wasn't out of control. He was back in control afterwards. They did say he was sweating and running late. Most people who go into a rage and kill someone don't stay in the rage around other people. They snap out of it and either try to cover it up or they run away from it.

[tazzybaby]

There are people that abuse one or two times and never abuse again. there are people that have abused for longer times and never kill. There are abusers that have killed but this does not mean that a specific abuser will kill.
You need specific proof presented in a trial and the jury . the tryers of fact decides as they did in the oj trial.
martin II

Hi Martin,

You are right that there are people who abuse and never abuse again. But, this was not the case with Simpson. He was still abusing Nicole (even if it wasn't with punches) up to the very end. And, you know what.....that doesn't mean that he did kill her. It means that it's definately possible. It means that he viewed her as someone that he could hurt. It only goes to show what type of personality he had when the mic or camera or adoring fans weren't in his face. What did he do when someone made him mad? What about when someone humiliated him? What if that someone was a female that he was married to? What if he felt she deserved it?

Are you talking about their decision in the civil trial? Because they found him liable.

[tazzybaby]

tazzy hi

According to Mario, Rocky was driving Nicole and her girlfriends to the airport in October of 1993 when he overheard them conspire that they "knew a way to get OJ's money." This troubled Rocky to hear, and he told Simpson the next time he saw him. Simpson was alarmed at the report, and asked Rocky if he, or anybody he knew, could follow Nicole, and determine who her friends were.

Hi Mario,

Yes, and according to Mario OJ left the murder weapon and other evidence in the limo for Rocky to dispose of. That's why I believe AC knew what he was talking about when he said the murder weapon was with the fishies.

[martin II]

Hi Mario,

Yes, and according to Mario OJ left the murder weapon and other evidence in the limo for Rocky to dispose of. That's why I believe AC knew what he was talking about when he said the murder weapon was with the fishies.

tazzy hi

i am not mario

You know what i think about mario.

Can you show me a direct quote where AC said the murder weapon was with the fishes. not what his girl friend said, but him.
martin II

[martin II]

Hi Martin,

You are right that there are people who abuse and never abuse again. But, this was not the case with Simpson. He was still abusing Nicole (even if it wasn't with punches) up to the very end. And, you know what.....that doesn't mean that he did kill her. It means that it's definately possible. It means that he viewed her as someone that he could hurt. It only goes to show what type of personality he had when the mic or camera or adoring fans weren't in his face. What did he do when someone made him mad? What about when someone humiliated him? What if that someone was a female that he was married to? What if he felt she deserved it?

Are you talking about their decision in the civil trial? Because they found him liable.


most of the above is only gossip. made up by people that hate oj and feel that they are experts on abuse because they may have been abused by somone or know someone that was abused.

i am talking about the criminal trial. yesterday i read that most americans did not tune in or pay much attention to the MONEY TRIAL as it was not about killing but about how much money oj could be made to pay Fred and the browns. And it seems that did not work either as oj has not paid.yet

martin II

[tazzybaby]

tazzy hi

i am not mario

You know what i think about mario.

Can you show me a direct quote where AC said the murder weapon was with the fishes. not what his girl friend said, but him.
martin II

Hi Martin,

I know exactly what you think. But, why would you bring it up in the first place?

No, and you know I can't. But, that's two independent claims. That bolsters it up some.

[martin II]

Hi Martin,

I know exactly what you think. But, why would you bring it up in the first place?

No, and you know I can't. But, that's two independent claims. That bolsters it up some.

tazzy hi

I was not the one that first brought it up. I posted info to support a posters
comment. Considering the type of relationship between Nicole and Faye and how Faye undermined oj to nicole i find it credible.

Nicole was a good mother and according to some a good wife. But gees, she was not without any faults. It was not like she did not have a negative side like most.

If you want a picture of her, read her best friend Cora'S testimony.

Mario is a guy looking for attention. he seems to get it on the many message boards he post his STORIES on. I have no idea when he will give proof of any
of it.

martin II

martin II

[tazzybaby]

most of the above is only gossip. made up by people that hate oj and feel that they are experts on abuse because they may have been abused by somone or know someone that was abused.

i am talking about the criminal trial. yesterday i read that most americans did not tune in or pay much attention to the MONEY TRIAL as it was not about killing but about how much money oj could be made to pay Fred and the browns. And it seems that did not work either as oj has not paid.yet

martin II

What?! Made up? Answer the questions I asked you. You just keep trying to be sarcastic. You have tunnel vision on this.

I have read that most americans believe OJ is guilty. So, that would mean that the civil trial would be the correct verdict.

And, OJ will have to be deceptive with his finances all his life. He is breaking the law by not paying the civil verdict. Whether you agree with it or not he was ordered to pay it. And, he has paid some. He is also paying for lawyers and court costs.

[tazzybaby]

tazzy hi

I was not the one that first brought it up. I posted info to support a posters
comment. Considering the type of relationship between Nicole and Faye and how Faye undermined oj to nicole i find it credible.

Nicole was a good mother and according to some a good wife. But gees, she was not without any faults. It was not like she did not have a negative side like most.

If you want a picture of her, read her best friend Cora'S testimony.

Mario is a guy looking for attention. he seems to get it on the many message boards he post his STORIES on. I have no idea when he will give proof of any
of it.

martin II

martin II

Hi Martin,

Martin, Martin, Martin. You tell me that my abuse comments are nothing more than gossip but yet you bring in Faye. Please post the supporting testimony that Faye undermined OJ to Nicole.

And, don't forget that Cora also said that Nicole would have been telling the truth if that's her diary. So, that means that Cora would believe that Nicole was abused by OJ.

Well, don't speak bad of Mario but then use his words to "help a poster" out.

[martin II]

Hi Martin,

Martin, Martin, Martin. You tell me that my abuse comments are nothing more than gossip but yet you bring in Faye. Please post the supporting testimony that Faye undermined OJ to Nicole.

And, don't forget that Cora also said that Nicole would have been telling the truth if that's her diary. So, that means that Cora would believe that Nicole was abused by OJ.

Well, don't speak bad of Mario but then use his words to "help a poster" out.

tazzy
From Coras testimony faye was not a good friend to nicole and she did not like the activities that she felt Faye got Nicole involved in during the months before she was murdered.

If you read fayes testimony do you believe that she gave a balanced testimony or that she gave a anti oj testimony.

I think oj did abuse or have a fight with her in 89. i don't believe he continued to hit or fight with her after that.

martin II

[martin II]

tazzy
hi

If oj was beating up on nicole a few months before her murder al she had to do was call the le once and that prenup would have been ripped up and she would have received more than she did at the divoice.
she never made one complaint after the 89 event.

martin II

[tazzybaby]

Martin,

I just saw where I called you Mario.....I'm sorry. That was not on purpose. I guess I was thinking about the post and accidentally put his name there. But, in my defense the first three letters are the same

:D

[tazzybaby]

tazzy
hi

If oj was beating up on nicole a few months before her murder al she had to do was call the le once and that prenup would have been ripped up and she would have received more than she did at the divoice.
she never made one complaint after the 89 event.

martin II

What about the 911 call? She was terrified. She was afraid that he was going to beat the **** out of her. This was only months before her murder.

Nicole loved OJ. She didn't want to hurt him. She only wanted him to quit hurting her. Mentally, physically and verbally.

[martin II]

What about the 911 call? She was terrified. She was afraid that he was going to beat the **** out of her. This was only months before her murder.

Nicole loved OJ. She didn't want to hurt him. She only wanted him to quit hurting her. Mentally, physically and verbally.

tazzy hi

I thought the 911 call was from Greta Green. Not Bundy.
nicole had a party at her house for some prostitutes and addicts when the kids were in the house. Robin greers friend told him about it and he went to g.g. to complain to nicfole about it.He had a good reason to do so. He said most of the yelling that was heard on the phone was him talking to KATO. HE DID NOT HIT HER NOT EVEN ONCE THAT DAY.

No
Nicole wanted the security of oj's home and relationshiop but she also wanted the feeling of being able to do what she wanted to do and her freedom. And her involvement with Faye.

martin II

[martin II]

Martin,

I just saw where I called you Mario.....I'm sorry. That was not on purpose. I guess I was thinking about the post and accidentally put his name there. But, in my defense the first three letters are the same

:D

tazzy hi
you ok with me.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

tazzy hi

I thought the 911 call was from Greta Green. Not Bundy.
nicole had a party at her house for some prostitutes and addicts when the kids were in the house. Robin greers friend told him about it and he went to g.g. to complain to nicfole about it.He had a good reason to do so. He said most of the yelling that was heard on the phone was him talking to KATO. HE DID NOT HIT HER NOT EVEN ONCE THAT DAY.

No
Nicole wanted the security of oj's home and relationshiop but she also wanted the feeling of being able to do what she wanted to do and her freedom. And her involvement with Faye.

martin II

It was from Gretna Green. But, she had only been at Bundy for 6 months. Nicole did not have a party for some prostitutes and addicts....lol. You are completely exaggerating. Those same people OJ had over to his house (and much worse) when the kids were there. The only difference is that OJ wasn't in control of the situation.

He did NOT have a good reason to force his way into the house and to come in screaming and yelling at her. He NEVER would have a good enough reason to do that. He may not have hit her but he forced his way into her house and screamed and yelled at her. That's NOT okay. There is a phone.

She couldn't get away from OJ because she loved him. If she was only trying to get security or money like you are insuating...then she wouldn't have returned the expensive jewelry that he gave her. That would have really helped her if she had "involvement" with Faye. :rolleyes:

[martin II]

It was from Gretna Green. But, she had only been at Bundy for 6 months. Nicole did not have a party for some prostitutes and addicts....lol. You are completely exaggerating. Those same people OJ had over to his house (and much worse) when the kids were there. The only difference is that OJ wasn't in control of the situation.

He did NOT have a good reason to force his way into the house and to come in screaming and yelling at her. He NEVER would have a good enough reason to do that. He may not have hit her but he forced his way into her house and screamed and yelled at her. That's NOT okay. There is a phone.

She couldn't get away from OJ because she loved him. If she was only trying to get security or money like you are insuating...then she wouldn't have returned the expensive jewelry that he gave her. That would have really helped her if she had "involvement" with Faye. :rolleyes:

tazzy
one week she wanted to be with oj. next week she said she wanted her freedom a little longer. next week she wanted to be with oj.
Oj was with Pula. he said he was confused by her yoyo acts.
when she called him yelling and accusing him of stealing her friends he said i have had it. i am finished. she accused him of trying to steal fay from her because he allowed fay to go to a affair which he says faye invited herself to.

The party was for a prostitute that was getting married.a friend of Robin Greer.

the
"involvement" with faye comes from Coras testimony.

martin II

[sassylassy]

I cant stick around tonight to post :(

but I will back tomorrow nite to pick up where I left off, there are some great posts to reply too...

till then I was wondering what u think of The Goldman family selling (Auction)
the rights to the book?

I thought they wanted to stop the book from coming out cuz they didnt want the public to read it :shrug: now they are selling it???

http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-ojbook,0,789301.story?coll=ktla-news-1

:seeya:

[martin II]

I cant stick around tonight to post :(

but I will back tomorrow nite to pick up where I left off, there are some great posts to reply too...

till then I was wondering what u think of The Goldman family selling (Auction)
the rights to the book?

I thought they wanted to stop the book from coming out cuz they didnt want the public to read it :shrug: now they are selling it???

http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-ojbook,0,789301.story?coll=ktla-news-1

:seeya:

sassy

If they aution of the rights to a buyer, that buyer will publish and sell the book and people will read it. So how is fred preventing the book from being sold by selling the rights?

He was grandstanding all the time. If he had taken the money when the publisher offered it to him and the browns he rejected it.

Now he gets the money from the auction, if any, and the browns are left with nothing.

martin II

[tazzybaby]

I cant stick around tonight to post :(

but I will back tomorrow nite to pick up where I left off, there are some great posts to reply too...

till then I was wondering what u think of The Goldman family selling (Auction)
the rights to the book?

I thought they wanted to stop the book from coming out cuz they didnt want the public to read it :shrug: now they are selling it???

http://ktla.trb.com/news/ktla-ojbook,0,789301.story?coll=ktla-news-1

:seeya:

Hi Sassy,

Mr Goldman's first outrage was that the killer was profitting from the murder.

OJ would have gotten the rights to the book back and would have been able to republish/release the book then. This ruling prevents that from happening. They are auctioning the rights. Hopefully whoever buys the rights will not release the book or will do it for free.

I don't think they were too keen on Fred getting any type of "rights" over OJ. They are ruling in favor of money. I believe this is Fred's lawyers doing. I saw Mr Goldman and his lawyer interviewed a couple of times and the lawyer had different views than Mr Goldman.

I will be disappointed if the book is released for profit. I do not think it should be sold.

Link to OJ getting the rights to the book.....

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1573174,00.html

[martin II]

Hi Sassy,

Mr Goldman's first outrage was that the killer was profitting from the murder.

OJ would have gotten the rights to the book back and would have been able to republish/release the book then. This ruling prevents that from happening. They are auctioning the rights. Hopefully whoever buys the rights will not release the book or will do it for free.

I don't think they were too keen on Fred getting any type of "rights" over OJ. They are ruling in favor of money. I believe this is Fred's lawyers doing. I saw Mr Goldman and his lawyer interviewed a couple of times and the lawyer had different views than Mr Goldman.

I will be disappointed if the book is released for profit. I do not think it should be sold.

Link to OJ getting the rights to the book.....

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1573174,00.html


tazzy ji

if the rights are auctioned off for money, the winner of the aution will sell the book for profit. otherwise there is no reason to bid for the rights.
The results will be.
1. OJ and his kids got $800,000
2. Fred will receive money from the auction if there is a buyer.
3. The buyer of the rights will publish and sell the book for profit and the
public will get to read the book.
4. The Browns will receive nothing.

Regardless of what Fred has said about the moral issue, HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN AFTER THE MONEY ONLY FOR FRED.

Fred forced Harper Collins nor to publish the book. Now he wants to see the rights to a publisher so he can get paid and they can sell the book.

So we will see if there is any money from the auction.

martin II

[martin II]

Hi Sassy,

Mr Goldman's first outrage was that the killer was profitting from the murder.

OJ would have gotten the rights to the book back and would have been able to republish/release the book then. This ruling prevents that from happening. They are auctioning the rights. Hopefully whoever buys the rights will not release the book or will do it for free.

I don't think they were too keen on Fred getting any type of "rights" over OJ. They are ruling in favor of money. I believe this is Fred's lawyers doing. I saw Mr Goldman and his lawyer interviewed a couple of times and the lawyer had different views than Mr Goldman.

I will be disappointed if the book is released for profit. I do not think it should be sold.

Link to OJ getting the rights to the book.....

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1573174,00.html

tazzy
if someone buys the rights. Fred gets the money.
You think someone will pay for the rights and then not sell the book?
martin II

[tazzybaby]

tazzy
if someone buys the rights. Fred gets the money.
You think someone will pay for the rights and then not sell the book?
martin II


That's a possiblity. Or, they could publish it for free. That's what I hope happens.

The best part of this whole thing is that OJ won't profit from the murders that he committed. That was the number one thing that Fred was after. I am so glad that Fred didn't let it go.


I'd rather that the money go to Fred any day rather than OJ.

[tazzybaby]

tazzy ji

*snip*

Regardless of what Fred has said about the moral issue, HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN AFTER THE MONEY ONLY FOR FRED.

Fred forced Harper Collins nor to publish the book. Now he wants to see the rights to a publisher so he can get paid and they can sell the book.

So we will see if there is any money from the auction.

martin II

This is your opinion. Not mine.

If OJ wouldn't have murdered his child he would have never been in this position.

:no:

[martin II]

This is your opinion. Not mine.

If OJ wouldn't have murdered his child he would have never been in this position.

:no:

OJ DID NOT MURDER FREDS SON. Read the criminal trial jury's decision.

martin II

[tazzybaby]

OJ DID NOT MURDER FREDS SON. Read the criminal trial jury's decision.

martin II

HE DID TOO......Read the civil trial jury's decision. He was definately responsible.

:seeya:

[martin II]

That's a possiblity. Or, they could publish it for free. That's what I hope happens.

The best part of this whole thing is that OJ won't profit from the murders that he committed. That was the number one thing that Fred was after. I am so glad that Fred didn't let it go.


I'd rather that the money go to Fred any day rather than OJ.

tazzy

oj and his kids have received about $800,000 from the book deal.

when you say they could publish it for free. do you mean publish it and then give the book away free. or do you mean pubilish it and give it to the retailers like Amazon.com for free.

Either way the public will get to read the book and fred has said he does not want the book written by oj , to be available to the public.
HE ALWAYS WANTED ONLY THE MONEY AS I HAVE TOLD YOU MANY TIMES BEFORE. Now i guess it is plain to you.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

tazzy

oj and his kids have received about $800,000 from the book deal.

when you say they could publish it for free. do you mean publish it and then give the book away free. or do you mean pubilish it and give it to the retailers like Amazon.com for free.

Either way the public will get to read the book and fred has said he does not want the book written by oj , to be available to the public.
HE ALWAYS WANTED ONLY THE MONEY AS I HAVE TOLD YOU MANY TIMES BEFORE. Now i guess it is plain to you.
martin II

Yes, OJ received about $800,000 (illegally by the way) from the book deal.

I mean they could put it on the web for anyone to read free of charge.

What is plain to me is that I don't want the murderer to profit in any way from the murders.

[martin II]

Yes, OJ received about $800,000 (illegally by the way) from the book deal.

I mean they could put it on the web for anyone to read free of charge.

What is plain to me is that I don't want the murderer to profit in any way from the murders.

tazzy

The $800,000 oj and his kids received was legal, Paid under a legal contract.
Nothing illegal about that payment.

Harper Collins offer fred and the browns some profits from the sale of the book. Denise went on tv and said we will not take blood money.

Fred also rejected allowing H . C. to sell the book and give him profits.

Now he asked the judge to force someone to sell the rights and give the money to him. SOMETHING WRONG THERE.

Oj has profited from the book he was involved in not from the murders.
martin II

[martin II]

HE DID TOO......Read the civil trial jury's decision. He was definately responsible.

:seeya:

tazzy
the first was about taking away one's freedom. very serious.
the second was about money. not that serious imo
martin II

[sassylassy]

Because OJ lies about so many things & seems to have just chosen negative adjectives to describe her behavior in the months leading up to the murders & IIRC others that knew her said that she felt good about finally making the break from him & the prospect of moving out of the area & away from him.

I agree Nicole was happy that she was moving on & starting a new life there is no question about that!

but I dont think OJS lied. why would Nicole act all lovey towards him if she was ending the relationship? :shrug: ...

[sassylassy]

The physical abuse stopped on the night Nicole was murdered by simpson.


I disagree...:beer:

[sassylassy]

I guess oj knew that all it would take was a angry face to scare this guy (keith) that was acting like a punk at the table.

martin II

:shrug: I'm sure there is more to the story!

imo moo

[sassylassy]

I need that beer after the day I had:)

From what I understand after Nicole moved out is that OJ kept on saying that he knew if he just gave her some space and some time to get some need for freedom out of her system that she would come back to him.

I also think that he tried to move forward with his life when he thought that Nicole wasn't ever coming back. He tried to find happiness elsewhere, but no matter how much he liked having Paula around (or any other woman for that matter) no one would ever be Nicole to him.

I can't answer how he controlled his rage. I just think that on the night of June 12th something snapped for him and he was unable to control it then.

So yeah, I do know what you mean.


well I hope you had a better day today :beer:

I have no doubt Nicole was OJS true love there is no denying that!
I hear what your saying, but I just cant wrap my head around the fact that OJS was this raging murderer but was able to contain his rage when the divorce happened (he didnt beat her or kill her as abusers are known to do when they leave?)

Marucs Allan- why didnt he lose his mind when this happened, imo thats huge

w/ keith in the living room- he didnt start smashing things or beating anyone in a jealous rage-he rang the doorbell?

it just seems odd that this raging abuser did nothing when those serious events happened, that doesnt seem to fit a pattern to me..


jmo imo :seeya:

[martin II]

tazzy
this is somethig i ran across written over the name of MARIO N.

A little background here:

I put my life on the line for Fred Goldman's dead son Ron Goldman.
I put my life on the line for Kim Goldman Hahn's dead brother Ron Goldman,
And what did I get for it? Fred Goldman SELLING-ME-OUT and Kim Goldman Hahn conspiring with these people to HAVE ME KILLED:

martin II

[martin II]

well I hope you had a better day today :beer:

I have no doubt Nicole was OJS true love there is no denying that!
I hear what your saying, but I just cant wrap my head around the fact that OJS was this raging murderer but was able to contain his rage when the divorce happened (he didnt beat her or kill her as abusers are known to do when they leave?)

Marucs Allan- why didnt he lose his mind when this happened, imo thats huge

w/ keith in the living room- he didnt start smashing things or beating anyone in a jealous rage-he rang the doorbell?

it just seems odd that this raging abuser did nothing when those serious events happened, that doesnt seem to fit a pattern to me..


jmo imo :seeya:


sassy hi
you have offered some SOLID GOLD thoughts there.

martin II

[sassylassy]

Hi Sassy,

Have you ever read up on Abuse? Did you know that MOST incidents are not reported? It was only a few months before her death that she called police for help. She was afraid that he was going to beat the #$*@ out her. Did you also know that physical pain is not the only form of abuse? Did you also know that most abused women take up for their abuser? They hide the abuse so that the abuser won't get in trouble.

Keith witnessed OJ's stalking behavior. Not just one incident. Stalking is a form of abuse. So is controlling behavior.

yes tazzy I have read up on abuse & understand, thanks for the added info!

The 911 call was made on Oct 25-93 & I'm not saying ojs behavior was acceptable that night, but knowing about some of the things they were fighting about I can understand why he was in a tizzy! not that its right!:read:

[sassylassy]

I agree that he was trying to intimidate Keith. But, how did he know Nicole was there? Why would he park and go in JUST TO INTIMIDATE HIM? Isn't that taking it a bit far? He wanted to have girlfriends but Nicole couldn't date anyone?

I do believe that OJ was upset over losing Nicole. But, he has maintained that it was mutual and he wasn't upset over it because he had Paula and other girls. But, that type of behavior shows a different story. And, I also agree that most people are more upset when they are the one "dumped". And, Nicole "dumped" OJ for good a little more than two weeks before her murder. She expressed fear of OJ to several people in the weeks leading up to her murder. She was so afraid that he was going to kill her that she called an abuse hotline, she documented abuse in her diary and she kept the photos in her lockbox so people would believe her. She went through a book about abuse and highlighted the things that applied to her. She told her mother...look I am abused, read this.

And, yes, OJ shook his hand and "acted" like he was cool with everything. But, when he and Nicole ever got in a fight he continually brought up Keith. So, it seems like he was not sincere when he said they were "cool". Keith also felt the same way.



I dont know what went down, I wasnt there, I dont know why OJS was there, but they did have kids together so its not like they didnt see each other!

also Brentwood was a small Villiage & they didnt live to far from each other...

I think OJ & Nicole broke up in May- when she gave back the bracelet.

It has also been said that Nicole may not have made that call-
& that it was Dudley Moores x- wife Nicole Rothschild who also suffered abuse & had similar characteristics of Nicole Brown!

http://www.light1998.com/Rothschilds-Book/MILESTONES.htm

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/03/28/1017206125506.html

[sassylassy]

Hi Sassy,

Mr Goldman's first outrage was that the killer was profitting from the murder.

OJ would have gotten the rights to the book back and would have been able to republish/release the book then. This ruling prevents that from happening. They are auctioning the rights. Hopefully whoever buys the rights will not release the book or will do it for free.

I don't think they were too keen on Fred getting any type of "rights" over OJ. They are ruling in favor of money. I believe this is Fred's lawyers doing. I saw Mr Goldman and his lawyer interviewed a couple of times and the lawyer had different views than Mr Goldman.

I will be disappointed if the book is released for profit. I do not think it should be sold.

Link to OJ getting the rights to the book.....

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1573174,00.html

I have to log off now- I will be back tomorrow nite to pick up from here....
:beer: :seeya:

[martin II]

I dont know what went down, I wasnt there, I dont know why OJS was there, but they did have kids together so its not like they didnt see each other!

also Brentwood was a small Villiage & they didnt live to far from each other...

I think OJ & Nicole broke up in May- when she gave back the bracelet.

It has also been said that Nicole may not have made that call-
& that it was Dudley Moores x- wife Nicole Rothschild who also suffered abuse & had similar characteristics of Nicole Brown!

http://www.light1998.com/Rothschilds-Book/MILESTONES.htm

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/03/28/1017206125506.html


sassy hi
imo
the thing at the resturant where oj came over to the table where Keith was, was just a mano mano kind of thing.Oj was just screwing around with Keith
and instead of Keith telling oj to chill, he sat there like a punk.

Oj knew that Keith had lived at Nicole bundy condo and he had the experience of seeing them on the sofa. so-----

martin II

[Kayleighjo]

well I hope you had a better day today :beer:

I have no doubt Nicole was OJS true love there is no denying that!
I hear what your saying, but I just cant wrap my head around the fact that OJS was this raging murderer but was able to contain his rage when the divorce happened (he didnt beat her or kill her as abusers are known to do when they leave?)

Marucs Allan- why didnt he lose his mind when this happened, imo thats huge

w/ keith in the living room- he didnt start smashing things or beating anyone in a jealous rage-he rang the doorbell?

it just seems odd that this raging abuser did nothing when those serious events happened, that doesnt seem to fit a pattern to me..


jmo imo :seeya:

I totally get what you're saying, but I guess I just view the events differently. I was a battered woman, and martin will try to say that all battered women think this and that, but that's not true. When I speak of my experiences it's just to try to shed some light on some things that people who haven't been through it might not get. Do you know what I'm saying?

My husband didn't rage all of the time either, in fact he never once raged when another person was around (other than our kids). But there were times when I had broken bones and black eyes when he raged in the privacy of our own home. And you know what? No one believed me when I tried to tell. They didn't believe me because all they saw was this guy who was successful and handsome, charming and kind. And the kicker is that he absolutely could be charming and kind. I still couldn't tell you why some things set him off and some didn't. There were times when I'd do something that made me think he would beat me blind and he didn't and there were times when he came at me when I'd done nothing other than sit on the couch and turn on the tv.

I can't offer the definitive of what ran through OJ's mind. Who knows for sure what makes people do crazy things? But, sometimes I know it's possible for someone to be able to take just so much before they explode. Maybe it was a whole bunch of things that were going on in his life ... the only thing I know for certain is that obsessive love can make people do things that are crazy.

If nothing else, thanks a ton for the up-front and honest, and NICE debate.

Cheers :beer:

[tazzybaby]

tazzy

The $800,000 oj and his kids received was legal, Paid under a legal contract.
Nothing illegal about that payment.

Harper Collins offer fred and the browns some profits from the sale of the book. Denise went on tv and said we will not take blood money.

Fred also rejected allowing H . C. to sell the book and give him profits.

Now he asked the judge to force someone to sell the rights and give the money to him. SOMETHING WRONG THERE.

Oj has profited from the book he was involved in not from the murders.
martin II


Hi Martin,

His kids didn't receive that money....lol He used it to pay bills. He said this himself (that he paid bills with it and that it's gone). The court decided that the account he set up was a front for him to get the money. That's one reason why the judge decided in the Goldman's favor.

He wants OJ to lose the rights so he will never profit from it. I am glad that this happened. OJ should not EVER profit from the murders that he committed.

Whether you believe he committed the murders or not it should be unacceptable that he profit from the murder of his children's mother. I can't believe that anyone would think it was okay whether you believe he's guilty or not.

[tazzybaby]

tazzy
the first was about taking away one's freedom. very serious.
the second was about money. not that serious imo
martin II


Hi Martin,

LOL!! The first one was not about the evidence.

The second one was about the evidence and more evidence.

It was very serious because it has been a thorn in Simpsons side ever since he got away with murder.

:seeya:

[tazzybaby]

tazzy
this is somethig i ran across written over the name of MARIO N.

A little background here:

I put my life on the line for Fred Goldman's dead son Ron Goldman.
I put my life on the line for Kim Goldman Hahn's dead brother Ron Goldman,
And what did I get for it? Fred Goldman SELLING-ME-OUT and Kim Goldman Hahn conspiring with these people to HAVE ME KILLED:

martin II

Hi Martin,

I have read this before. Did you want to debate what Mario says? Or would you like to discuss it with him? I do know that he would be more than willing to discuss it with you.

Or are you just trying to make some type of sarcastic point?

:seeya:

[tazzybaby]

yes tazzy I have read up on abuse & understand, thanks for the added info!

The 911 call was made on Oct 25-93 & I'm not saying ojs behavior was acceptable that night, but knowing about some of the things they were fighting about I can understand why he was in a tizzy! not that its right!:read:

Hi Sassy,

So, you think it's understandable that he was in a tizzy? But, he was screaming about Keith that night also. And, you think it was all about his kids right? He was only upset that she was doing it with the kids in the house. Then why would he force his way in, scream and yell and talk about those things while the kids were in the house? That's a double standard and therefore in my opinion negates his "worried about the kids" stance. He hung out with the same people that Nicole did. And, the kids were around. And, if he was so worried that the kids find Nicole and Keith then why would he scream about it out loud where the kids could hear? I thought he was trying to protect the kids???? Nicole was begging for him to quiet down so he didn't wake up the kids. So, Nicole was worried about the kids but OJ wasn't? It's all about control. He doesn't get to dictate who she can and can't hang out with. Did anything happen? No. Did the kids walk in? No. Did he consider her a good mother? Yes. So, why wouldn't he trust her judgement? Why wouldn't he just tell her to be careful. Why does he get to force his way in and scream at her to tell her what she should and shouldn't do?

That incident was more than just a tizzy. Nicole was terrified. She was crying. She knew that at any minute it could turn into something much more.

[martin II]

Hi Martin,

I have read this before. Did you want to debate what Mario says? Or would you like to discuss it with him? I do know that he would be more than willing to discuss it with you.

Or are you just trying to make some type of sarcastic point?

:seeya:

tazzy hi

a poster here posted a link to a site and i veiwed it and found this by Mario which i had never seen before and really did not understand what he was saying as i was not aware that this was his feelings towards the goldmans if that is what his post means.

i am not wasting my time debating mario as there is no way to get the final answer to his claims as he has not decided to give proof.

martin II

[martin II]

Hi Sassy,

So, you think it's understandable that he was in a tizzy? But, he was screaming about Keith that night also. And, you think it was all about his kids right? He was only upset that she was doing it with the kids in the house. Then why would he force his way in, scream and yell and talk about those things while the kids were in the house? That's a double standard and therefore in my opinion negates his "worried about the kids" stance. He hung out with the same people that Nicole did. And, the kids were around. And, if he was so worried that the kids find Nicole and Keith then why would he scream about it out loud where the kids could hear? I thought he was trying to protect the kids???? Nicole was begging for him to quiet down so he didn't wake up the kids. So, Nicole was worried about the kids but OJ wasn't? It's all about control. He doesn't get to dictate who she can and can't hang out with. Did anything happen? No. Did the kids walk in? No. Did he consider her a good mother? Yes. So, why wouldn't he trust her judgement? Why wouldn't he just tell her to be careful. Why does he get to force his way in and scream at her to tell her what she should and shouldn't do?

That incident was more than just a tizzy. Nicole was terrified. She was crying. She knew that at any minute it could turn into something much more.

tazzy hi

A friend of robin greer is the person that told oj about the party.We do not know exactly what she told oj about what went on at this party. So based on what he was told he may have had a right to be concerned and yell.
But he did not hit her even though you think he was totally out of control.
He was not out of control he was yelling because he was pissed and talking mostly to Kato.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

I dont know what went down, I wasnt there, I dont know why OJS was there, but they did have kids together so its not like they didnt see each other!

also Brentwood was a small Villiage & they didnt live to far from each other...

I think OJ & Nicole broke up in May- when she gave back the bracelet.

It has also been said that Nicole may not have made that call-
& that it was Dudley Moores x- wife Nicole Rothschild who also suffered abuse & had similar characteristics of Nicole Brown!

http://www.light1998.com/Rothschilds-Book/MILESTONES.htm

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/03/28/1017206125506.html

Hi Sassy,

You're right, it was May. May the 22nd. That's not quite three weeks before her murder. Or, over two weeks before her muder. She gave the bracelet back. I think OJ knew it was truly over at that point.

Yes, they did live in the same area. And, it would be understandable for them to "run into" each other. But, what's not understandable is the intimidation when he's got his own girlfriend (and always had one). And, Nicole said he would be EVERYWHERE she went. He was actually following her. She told several people this. She told her mother she was scared of him and that he was following her. She showed her mother the book regarding abuse and highlighted the parts that were like her and told her mother.

The call was introduced into the trial. So, it was more than "thought" to be Nicole Simpson. And, Dudley Moore's wife didn't say it was her. That leaves Nicole Simpson. That's why they were allowed to introduce it. To show her "frame of mind".

[martin II]

Hi Martin,

I have read this before. Did you want to debate what Mario says? Or would you like to discuss it with him? I do know that he would be more than willing to discuss it with you.

Or are you just trying to make some type of sarcastic point?

:seeya:

tazzy
Mario claims that the goldmans did something to him, conspired to have him killed. is there proof of this?
martin II

[tazzybaby]

tazzy hi

A friend of robin greer is the person that told oj about the party.We do not know exactly what she told oj about what went on at this party. So based on what he was told he may have had a right to be concerned and yell.
But he did not hit her even though you think he was totally out of control.
He was not out of control he was yelling because he was pissed and talking mostly to Kato.
martin II

He had no concern for the kids at that moment. He didn't care if the kids woke up and heard what he was trying to "protect" them from.

He did not have a right to force his way in and scream and yell at her. No matter how upset he was he did not have that right. If he was so concerned about the kids then he should have just taken them. Why would he subject them to screaming and yelling and the topic that he was talking about? Did he only care about their well being on certain subjects?

[tazzybaby]

tazzy
Mario claims that the goldmans did something to him, conspired to have him killed. is there proof of this?
martin II


Hi Martin,

You'll have to talk to Mario about this. But, I thought you didn't believe him? Maybe you should discuss things with Mario. You'd have a better understanding of him.

:)

[martin II]

Hi Martin,

You'll have to talk to Mario about this. But, I thought you didn't believe him? Maybe you should discuss things with Mario. You'd have a better understanding of him.

:)

tazzy hi
i have read many post by mario on various boards. He makes the same accusations and when people ask him for proof he always says he will give proof at a later time but right now he is afraid for his life and cannot speak.
Yet he is on many blogs and boards.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

tazzy hi
i have read many post by mario on various boards. He makes the same accusations and when people ask him for proof he always says he will give proof at a later time but right now he is afraid for his life and cannot speak.
Yet he is on many blogs and boards.
martin II

Hi Martin,

So, does that mean that you don't want to discuss things with him? A simple no would have done.

:shrug:

I like Mario. I don't agree with everything that he says. He has some interesting information. And, he has posted proof for certain things. So, you are mis-stating some of your post. I would love to see Rocky found and questioned!

[martin II]

Hi Martin,

So, does that mean that you don't want to discuss things with him? A simple no would have done.

:shrug:

I like Mario. I don't agree with everything that he says. He has some interesting information. And, he has posted proof for certain things. So, you are mis-stating some of your post. I would love to see Rocky found and questioned!

tazzy hi

I would only have the same questons of Mario that all of the other posters on other blogs and boards have asked. Proof about his story of the limo and proof about the lake and proof that lapd tried to kill him.

I think he would give me the same answere he has always given.
I cannot tell now. I will give proof at a later time. This has been his answer for years so i don't think i will get a different answer.
So my answer is NO.
martin II

[martin II]

tazzy hi
i believe you may be pulling my leg when you say you believe mario. did he ever give you proof of the limo hidden compartmentor the beating LAPD gave him or the bag in the lake lie??
martinii

[martin II]

Hi Martin,

Well, I was wondering if that is where the information came from. I just didn't know why you said it. I was wondering if nn told you this or something.

Why would you say that the prosecution didn't believe it? They didn't know where to search. That doesn't mean they didn't believe it. And, AC is not the only one who made the statement.

tazzy hi
AC never made that statement. His ex girlfriend that he dumped got angry and claimed he made that statement.Kinda like 'A WOMAN SCORNED"

martin II

[martin II]

I am glad that you think OJ was wrong for hitting Nicole. But, OJ did not take full responsibility. He still lied. He said he didn't hit her. He said he wrestled with her. Does that not bother you? I'm sure you understand why he lied. But, if he lied back then why would you assume he is truthful about it now?

I have never (nor has anyone here that I know of) automatically assume that he killed her because of the 89 incident. I don't even take the position that just because of some statistics he killed her. I believe what Nicole wrote and told people. Why? Because of the 89 incident and the 911 call months before her murder. That's proof that he was abusive and therefore I believe what Nicole wrote. I have NO REASON not to believe Nicole. I believe that he threatened to kill her (as she has said) and I believe she believed he would do it. That just goes to understanding why it happened.

No one has EVER said that OJ was charged with abuse. But, OJ had an image of a squeaky clean hero. That obviously wasn't the case. And, in order to give an understandin of how and why this could have happened it is imperative to look at the abuse.


tazzy hi

I agree. In order to understand these people it is imperative that we look at OJ AND NICOLES BEHAVIOR. In order to undertstand the relationship between Nicole and OJ and the problems that had, one needs to read Coras testimony
about the relationship between nicole and faye resnick.martin II

[Kayleighjo]

tazzy hi

I agree. In order to understand these people it is imperative that we look at OJ AND NICOLES BEHAVIOR. In order to undertstand the relationship between Nicole and OJ and the problems that had, one needs to read Coras testimony
about the relationship between nicole and faye resnick.martin II

So, reading Cora's testimony is the sole key to understanding Nicole and OJ's relationship. Wow, I wish I would have realized sooner that it's so easy:rolleyes:

I don't think that Cora and Nicole were as close as Cora would like to paint the canvas as. It appears that Cora had no idea of alot of Nicole's personal issues, but Nicole confided those issues to other friends such as Kris Kardashian, Cici Shaian, Linda Schulman, and Faye Resnick.

I tend to put alot more stock in the stories told by Kris, Cici, and Linda because none of them campaigned for "OJ Trial Fame" like Faye and Cora did.

[tazzybaby]

So, reading Cora's testimony is the sole key to understanding Nicole and OJ's relationship. Wow, I wish I would have realized sooner that it's so easy:rolleyes:

I don't think that Cora and Nicole were as close as Cora would like to paint the canvas as. It appears that Cora had no idea of alot of Nicole's personal issues, but Nicole confided those issues to other friends such as Kris Kardashian, Cici Shaian, Linda Schulman, and Faye Resnick.

I tend to put alot more stock in the stories told by Kris, Cici, and Linda because none of them campaigned for "OJ Trial Fame" like Faye and Cora did.

Hi Kayleighjo,

I completely agree!

:beer:

[tazzybaby]

tazzy hi
AC never made that statement. His ex girlfriend that he dumped got angry and claimed he made that statement.Kinda like 'A WOMAN SCORNED"

martin II


Hi Martin,

Well......according to his ex-girlfriend he did. And, it seems to be backed up by a second story of the murder weapon being discarded in water. You can claim that it's a woman scorned..lol But, the fact is that there are two independent stories that claim the same thing. I just wish we could find out which body of water and find it.

:cool:

[martin II]

What?! Made up? Answer the questions I asked you. You just keep trying to be sarcastic. You have tunnel vision on this.

I have read that most americans believe OJ is guilty. So, that would mean that the civil trial would be the correct verdict.

And, OJ will have to be deceptive with his finances all his life. He is breaking the law by not paying the civil verdict. Whether you agree with it or not he was ordered to pay it. And, he has paid some. He is also paying for lawyers and court costs.

tazzy hi

What most americans believe means nothing as this was not a trial decided by public opinion.Most americans believe what the media told them.

OJ has no responsibility to tell fred when he makes money and the court has no responsibility to collect money for fred.

Oj is doing what the greater majority of americand do that have civil judgements against them. DON'T PAY.

i don;t know what law OJ is breaking. If he is breaking one them fred should have him arrested.


martin II

[martin II]

Hi Martin,

Well......according to his ex-girlfriend he did. And, it seems to be backed up by a second story of the murder weapon being discarded in water. You can claim that it's a woman scorned..lol But, the fact is that there are two independent stories that claim the same thing. I just wish we could find out which body of water and find it.

:cool:


Tazzy
mario has been on the net for years talking about the lake near la. If LE believed him they could drain the lake with no problem.
No one believes his story nor the girls.
There is no proof that this happened . I would not call either of these 'INDEPENDANT' accounts credible at all.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

tazzy hi

What most americans believe means nothing as this was not a trial decided by public opinion.Most americans believe what the media told them.

OJ has no responsibility to tell fred when he makes money and the court has no responsibility to collect money for fred.

Oj is doing what the greater majority of americand do that have civil judgements against them. DON'T PAY.

i don;t know what law OJ is breaking. If he is breaking one them fred should have him arrested.


martin II

Hi Martin,

You are so funny. You tell me that the opinion of american doesn't matter but you put in your post (that I replied to) an opinion also.

Why would OJ hide the money he makes? If he has no legal obligation why would he hide and channel his money through other means?

I wish Fred would have him arrested. I'm sure that if Fred was the deciding factor he would have been arrested long, long ago. OJ is breaking the law by fraud.

[martin II]

Hi Martin,

You are so funny. You tell me that the opinion of american doesn't matter but you put in your post (that I replied to) an opinion also.

Why would OJ hide the money he makes? If he has no legal obligation why would he hide and channel his money through other means?

I wish Fred would have him arrested. I'm sure that if Fred was the deciding factor he would have been arrested long, long ago. OJ is breaking the law by fraud.

tazzy hi

Because the majority of americans believe oj was guilty does not mesn he was. The majority opinion has no weight in a criminal cjs trial.

In America one cannot be jailed for debt. So there is no law that would allow fred to have oj arrested or jailed.imo
martin II

[martin II]

tazzy hi
the civil court allowed the jury to issue fred a judgement against oj. I don't think there is a provision in the judgement requiring the court to enforce payment by the defendant.
martin II

[William Anthony]

tazzy hi
the civil court allowed the jury to issue fred a judgement against oj. I don't think there is a provision in the judgement requiring the court to enforce payment by the defendant.
martin II

Martin,

In the state where I live, the prevailing party must obtain a writ of execution to enforce judgment.

[martin II]

Martin,

In the state where I live, the prevailing party must obtain a writ of execution to enforce judgment.

william
that may be the case where i am but i know there are a large number of unpaid judgements outstanding for years here.

i know that a crditor can attatch a bank account if he can find one. but i am not sure a marshall can arrest and jail a defendant for nonpayment.

martin II

[William Anthony]

william
that may be the case where i am but i know there are a large number of unpaid judgements outstanding for years here.

i know that a crditor can attatch a bank account if he can find one. but i am not sure a marshall can arrest and jail a defendant for nonpayment.

martin II

Yes, I do not believe there is such a thing as debtor's prison, except for child support, possibly.

[martin II]

Hi Martin,

Well......according to his ex-girlfriend he did. And, it seems to be backed up by a second story of the murder weapon being discarded in water. You can claim that it's a woman scorned..lol But, the fact is that there are two independent stories that claim the same thing. I just wish we could find out which body of water and find it.

:cool:

tazzy hi

you may or may not have seen this before but i just saw it on a site posted by mario.
Please note;
1.Her comments about faye hating oj.
2. her comments about Paula
3. her comments about her sister Denise's lifestyle.
4. Nicole bragging that she controls OJ. HHMMMM

martin II

Here's the text:

"Cora,

Sorry I had to get off so fast the other night. O.J. brought the kids
home
early and I wanted to talk to him about the bracelet. Remember I told
you I
gave it back to him - well, He gave it to that ***** he's been
seeing!!! Can you
believe it!! He's a piece of work, huh?

I don't know why I should even give a **** what he does - but the
truth is I
do! Iv'e seen her and she's not so hot - skinny and big lips. He
says she's
a nice girl and I wish him well, but it still bugs me. Isn't that
strange.
I still have that "power" over him though - like when I moved in
last year.
He took me right back in a second. He would again too - I know it. We
just
have each other in the blood I guess.

I've told you before, it's the sex- always was, always will be. he
just
gets too rough, that's all. It used to be a turn - on - now I'm
black and blue
for days. Not only that we make so much noise I'm afraid the kids
will hear,
oh well. He gets angry when I say no but I'm really conflicted -
sometimes I
want in - sometimes I want out - you know what I've been going
through. Agony
.

You know Faye - she hates him - but secretly I think she's really
"hot" for
O.J. So the tension when he stops buy is awful. He's on me, she's
on me -
everybody's on me. It's a nightmare. I'm always tired. Stress
I guess. All
wound up. I hate having someone around all the times. So many people.
I
don't even know, or like for that matter coming and going - So, if I
seem edgy
Cora I'm only concerned about the kids.

Faye hangs with a crowd that frankly scares me. She's really a nice
person
but very addictive. I've had my flings - see what this lifestyle did
to
Denise. The children are too important. I can't give O.J. any
excuses (like he's
perfect..) but he's right too. He doesn't like her for a reason.
he says
she's a lousy mother - maybe, but she's got problems - that why I
try to help.
Oh well, see you Tues. don't say anything to you know - who.
We'll take
it one day at a time.

Nicole"


Sure put's a different "LIGHT" about what Nicole Simpson thought and knew about her sister Denise Brown.

Nicole says that the "CROWD" that Faye Resnick hangs with scare's her. I'll bet it did.

Read into everyone.......................................... .

[socaldiva]

*snip*
Because the majority of americans believe oj was guilty does not mesn he was. The majority opinion has no weight in a criminal cjs trial.



The majority thinks he did it, because the evidence tells us so. Those that don't believe he's a double murderer are simply in denial.


Why are you talking about the criminal trial? The judgement was the result of the civil trial.

[sassylassy]

Hi Sassy,

Mr Goldman's first outrage was that the killer was profitting from the murder.

OJ would have gotten the rights to the book back and would have been able to republish/release the book then. This ruling prevents that from happening. They are auctioning the rights. Hopefully whoever buys the rights will not release the book or will do it for free.

I don't think they were too keen on Fred getting any type of "rights" over OJ. They are ruling in favor of money. I believe this is Fred's lawyers doing. I saw Mr Goldman and his lawyer interviewed a couple of times and the lawyer had different views than Mr Goldman.

I will be disappointed if the book is released for profit. I do not think it should be sold.

Link to OJ getting the rights to the book.....

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1573174,00.html

I recall Fred Goldman's rage was also becuz he didnt want the public to read this garbage, then he started the boycott of the book, the same book that he is now selling?

I dont get it :shrug:

but it does sound like we might get to read the damn book after all...:eek:lol
;) imo jmo