Homeland Security

[alwaysHARRIET]

When this case first started, I found it odd that the U.S. Department of Homeland Security was involved. But now with this latest development on 48 hours that its not Mary Lacy who is investigating Karr... but the U.S. Department of Homeland Security?

That really doesn't make any sense. I went to the wikipedia page about them and their sole mission is protecting the territory of the United States from terrorist attacks and responding to natural disasters.

Now, while I PERSONALLY believe the murder of JonBenet Ramsey IS a matter of Homeland Security... thats NOT the mission of this organization.

Does brining Karr back to the U.S. somehow protect the terrority of the U.S. from terrorist attacks?

Is this JonBenet Ramsey arrest a "natural disaster?"... well maybe metaphorically... but not seriously.

Why homeland security is involved in this case makes absolutely no sense to me.

But maybe some of you can straighten me out.

[shill]

It's not about Karr but possibly another suspect Karr met in Thailand that would fall into HS jurisdiction, and I'm not going to elaborate at this time.

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by shill
It's not about Karr but possibly another suspect Karr met in Thailand that would fall into HS jurisdiction, and I'm not going to elaborate at this time.

Possibly covers that nicely incase your whistling dixie. Like you'd know about suspects that fall under the jurisdiction of Homeland Security that are not public knowledge. Do tell us WHAT is your DOG in this fight.

[Athena]

I don't know why Homeland Security got involved and I'm not going to speculate except to say don't you think it odd that all the evidence was lost including his laptop from Thailand? Just something that can make one go hmmm....... JMO

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by Athena
I don't know why Homeland Security got involved and I'm not going to speculate except to say don't you think it odd that all the evidence was lost including his laptop from Thailand? Just something that can make one go hmmm....... JMO

Since it was the old porn charges I thought it was his computer from the California bust that was lost. California is who lost the evidence. Are you stating it was his computer from Thailand that was lost? What has that computer got to do with the old Porn charges from California?

[shill]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Since it was the old porn charges I thought it was his computer from the California bust that was lost. California is who lost the evidence. Are you stating it was his computer from Thailand that was lost? What has that computer got to do with the old Porn charges from California? She said, "odd that all the evidence was lost including his laptop from Thailand?"

[sweetcharlotte]

I'm guessing Home Security got involved because of the international use of telecommunications equipment in the possible commission and/of furtherance of a crime? Or some such legal mumbo/jumbo? JMO

[Ames]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte
I'm guessing Home Security got involved because of the international use of telecommunications equipment in the possible commission and/of furtherance of a crime? Or some such legal mumbo/jumbo? JMO

I asked my husband (a Government agent)...and he says you are right.

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by Ames


I asked my husband (a Government agent)...and he says you are right.

See, I am good for something. :D

[Ames]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


See, I am good for something. :D


LOL...yep, you had it all figured out. You would make a great detective!! ;)

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by Ames



LOL...yep, you had it all figured out. You would make a great detective!! ;)

ROFL.....now, if someone will just explain it to the "radio
man".

[Ames]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


ROFL.....now, if someone will just explain it to the "radio
man".


:lol:

[andU]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Possibly covers that nicely incase your whistling dixie. Like you'd know about suspects that fall under the jurisdiction of Homeland Security that are not public knowledge. Do tell us WHAT is your DOG in this fight.

He was outside the country... it did involve a foreign government agency or police, getting custody of Karr ... of course they would be involved.

[Ames]

Originally posted by andU


He was outside the country... it did involve a foreign government agency or police, getting custody of Karr ... of course they would be involved.

Yes, and different Government Agencies are always helping each other out.

[Knot4u2no]

Sophisticated pedophiles network. Karr knows about technology and computer use. Pedophiles in positions of power and authority are a legitimate matter of interest for Homeland Security. Although Karr’s computer was “lost,” there are likely many links to Karr on many computers, links that may have nothing to do with JonBenet’s murder investigation but still are a matter of interest for Homeland Security.

Russell

[shill]

Before we invaded Iraq we had minimal exposure to Muslims and their terrorist behavior. But now we have first hand exposure to them and I have realized things that I didn't realize before 911.
That is; The terrorist like to behead people. They are constantly threatening to do it and fulfilling those threats. Muslims get very upset when the body of their dead is not returned to them right away for a proper burial. Holding on to Saddam Hussein's dead sons for days created a huge uproar in the Muslim world. And Muslim terrorists favorite time to turn up the attacks is during religious holidays. Muslims consider Jews are dogs and pigs. The Muslim women wear burkas covering their entire body so only their eyes are exposed. Muslims believe a body should be washed and shrouded in cloth before burial. Muslim men should shave their armpits and pubic hairs. Thugees, a cult that descended from a Muslim tribe, used the garrote as the number one weapon of choice.
So could the killer of Jon Benet be considered a terrorist by Homeland Security? Let's see.

The ransom note has a few references to Muslim terrorist actions;
-)denied her remains for proper burial.
-)will result in your daughter being beheaded.
-)talking to a stray dog, she dies.
-)execution of your daughter.

Even Americans have lashed out at Patsy for parading JB around in what they consider promiscuous wear. It is a sin for a Muslim women to expose herself publicly and that is the reason for the burka. One can only imagine how an extremist Muslim would view this parading of a six year old as the work of the great Satan. How could any Muslim tolerate this sexual exploitation of a six year old.

Christmas day, the highest holiest day of Christian beliefs. This is the day a Muslim terrorist would choose to strike. It is most likely that JB was killed on this day.

John Ramsey served at the Sub Bay Navel base in the Philippines at a time when President Marcos was fighting to eradicate Muslim factions in their country. They slaughter many of these Muslims. Subic Bay was selling itself as the next Silicon Valley in the early 90's. In the Philippines, the garrote is still a legal form of execution. Sun Micro Systems has operation in the Asian Pacific, including the Philippines. Thailand is notorious for child prostitution. Someone who likes to tie up little girls, would go unnoticed in Thailand. The Philippines are a short trip to Thailand. Fat Cat IMO is a term Asians use for describing Americans. When are treaty with the Philippines ended in the 90's. they voted to not renew it. There was no love there for America. America was viewed as occupiers, and resented by some Filipinos who thought they were exploited.

In the ransom note, it is written, "We respect your business but not the country". This shows a hate for America but a respect for a computer company. Subic Bay was pushing towards a computer based economy in the early 90's. The killer has showed computer knowledge in the ransom note with use of words that are associated with computer nerds. Again this points towards someone in John's business.

John Karr may have found the killer and went to Thailand to meet him.
I believe that JB's killer is an Asian Muslim who committed a terrorist act on a six year old American girl, and that is enough to get Homeland Security involved.

[shill]

Asian men rarely have facial hair or chest hair. If they practice Muslim beliefs and shave their armpits and pubic hairs, there would be little worry of leaving behind hair evidence. Asian people are usually smaller in stature and it would be much easier for them to shimmy through a basement window.

[shill]

It is a great dishoner for a Muslim women to not be a virgin. There are doctors that are currently offering the stiching tight of the hymen to recreate their virginity so they can be married. Defiling someones daughter is a great insult in the Muslim world.

[shill]

I believe the killer is an Asian Muslim who is a disgruntled employee of John's company or a college student who's Muslim beliefs were offended and his psycho fascination with movies triggered him to act after seeing "Ransom" in which Mel Gibsons Character is a wealthy millionaire who flies planes and drives a Jaguar just like John Ramsey.

[andU]

I believe the killer is an Asian Muslim who is a disgruntled employee of John's company or a college student who's Muslim beliefs were offended and his psycho fascination with movies triggered him to act after seeing "Ransom" in which Mel Gibsons Character is a wealthy millionaire who flies planes and drives a Jaguar just like John Ramsey.

Shill, I strongly agree with your theory; and I believe if we had access to all the evidence stored we could back it up. But since we don't have access and what has been stored hasn't seemed important enough to LE to even check it out, I'm frazzled. :confused:

[thewhitewitch1]

Before we invaded Iraq we had minimal exposure to Muslims and their terrorist behavior. But now we have first hand exposure to them and I have realized things that I didn't realize before 911.
That is; The terrorist like to behead people. They are constantly threatening to do it and fulfilling those threats. Muslims get very upset when the body of their dead is not returned to them right away for a proper burial. Holding on to Saddam Hussein's dead sons for days created a huge uproar in the Muslim world. And Muslim terrorists favorite time to turn up the attacks is during religious holidays. Muslims consider Jews are dogs and pigs. The Muslim women wear burkas covering their entire body so only their eyes are exposed. Muslims believe a body should be washed and shrouded in cloth before burial. Muslim men should shave their armpits and pubic hairs. Thugees, a cult that descended from a Muslim tribe, used the garrote as the number one weapon of choice.
So could the killer of Jon Benet be considered a terrorist by Homeland Security? Let's see.

The ransom note has a few references to Muslim terrorist actions;
-)denied her remains for proper burial.
-)will result in your daughter being beheaded.
-)talking to a stray dog, she dies.
-)execution of your daughter.

Even Americans have lashed out at Patsy for parading JB around in what they consider promiscuous wear. It is a sin for a Muslim women to expose herself publicly and that is the reason for the burka. One can only imagine how an extremist Muslim would view this parading of a six year old as the work of the great Satan. How could any Muslim tolerate this sexual exploitation of a six year old.

Christmas day, the highest holiest day of Christian beliefs. This is the day a Muslim terrorist would choose to strike. It is most likely that JB was killed on this day.

John Ramsey served at the Sub Bay Navel base in the Philippines at a time when President Marcos was fighting to eradicate Muslim factions in their country. They slaughter many of these Muslims. Subic Bay was selling itself as the next Silicon Valley in the early 90's. In the Philippines, the garrote is still a legal form of execution. Sun Micro Systems has operation in the Asian Pacific, including the Philippines. Thailand is notorious for child prostitution. Someone who likes to tie up little girls, would go unnoticed in Thailand. The Philippines are a short trip to Thailand. Fat Cat IMO is a term Asians use for describing Americans. When are treaty with the Philippines ended in the 90's. they voted to not renew it. There was no love there for America. America was viewed as occupiers, and resented by some Filipinos who thought they were exploited.

In the ransom note, it is written, "We respect your business but not the country". This shows a hate for America but a respect for a computer company. Subic Bay was pushing towards a computer based economy in the early 90's. The killer has showed computer knowledge in the ransom note with use of words that are associated with computer nerds. Again this points towards someone in John's business.

John Karr may have found the killer and went to Thailand to meet him.
I believe that JB's killer is an Asian Muslim who committed a terrorist act on a six year old American girl, and that is enough to get Homeland Security involved.

The Ramseys were upset when they were told to submit to interviews or JBs body would be withheld for burial. A "proper burial" was important to them.
JonBenet was NOT beheaded.
John Ramseys worked with computers and knew computer lingo.
The comment about America was to make the LE believe the note was written by terrorists.
John Karr confessed to killing JB alone...in great detail.
Homeland Security SHOULD have been involved from the very beginning since Lockheed Martin IS involved with Homeland Security.

[bullmoose]

I thought that the Ramseys only learned about the attempted holding of Jonbenet's body after they returned from the funeral, about the same time they learned that the BPD had illegally questioned Burke on 12/26/96.

[thewhitewitch1]

I thought that the Ramseys only learned about the attempted holding of Jonbenet's body after they returned from the funeral, about the same time they learned that the BPD had illegally questioned Burke on 12/26/96.


Ya know what? You could be right about that. Still, I believe "a proper burial" was important to the Ramseys.

[shill]

Ya know what? You could be right about that. Still, I believe "a proper burial" was important to the Ramseys.
Everyone wants their dead to be buried. My mom wasn't buried for five months because the ground was to frozen, but she was eventually buried. It was still a proper burial, although I thought it was a little weird.
But the Muslim belief requires burial that day, with the entire body. One of the reasons they chop heads off is so they can hide them and then the family won't have the entire body for a proper burial. JB was also allegedly wiped down and found wrapped in a white cloth, which is also part of the Muslim burial ritual.

These are just things in evidence that coincide with Muslim life and teachings.
IMO it is unusual for anyone but a Muslim terrorist to threaten to behead someone.

[shill]

The Ramseys were upset when they were told to submit to interviews or JBs body would be withheld for burial. A "proper burial" was important to them.
If someone told you to postpone your daughter's burial until you submit to their demands, your going to be upset for a lot of reasons.

JonBenet was NOT beheaded.Beheading was threatened, a threat more common to terrorist M.O.. They have threatened to behead people and then let them go. It's a threat.

John Ramseys worked with computers and knew computer lingo.John Ramsey worked on computers and so did most the people in his company. That's why I suspect them.

The comment about America was to make the LE believe the note was written by terrorists.
The comment about America was true. How can you respect a company that serves a country you hate? If you helped build the company and are a part of it but don't like it's client, you might say that. A little Muslim boy was interviewed on 60minutes or some show, and he was spewing hate and death to America. They asked him what he was going to do with his life and he said, " I want to go to Dearborn Michigan to go to school to become a dentist". They can hate our country, but love what it has to offer.

John Karr confessed to killing JB alone...in great detail.
JK appears to have intimate knowledge which I'm claiming he got from the killer, which is why he's in Thailand. I'm not implying he partnered with him.

Homeland Security SHOULD have been involved from the very beginning since Lockheed Martin IS involved with Homeland Security.
You'd think the Government would have been more concerned with this case.

[bullmoose]

Interesting posts, they make sense. Now that I think about it, maybe the federal government is interested in this case; its seems like somebody moved mountains to get Karr back into the US. Yet nobody can find his computers; hmm, doesn't that sort of sound like federal involvement?

[shill]

Billion dollers in sales with a company that builds weapons for the USA.
Theories have been discussed of possible extortion of John to reveal secrets or inside trader information, and maybe JB was payback for not doing as they asked. John and the government possibly knowing who did this but things needed to be kept top secret and the public has been fed a tabloid version of everything.

[shill]

There were two crime novels written in Dutch that were found in the Ramsey's home. Seemed odd and I wanted to see if there is any possible link to Muslims. Didn't find anything for awhile and then came upon this. It is more recent but it does show a Muslim presence in Dutch province.
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2005/10/netherlands-considering-muslim-burka.php

[bullmoose]

I don't claim to know how much of SE Asia was under Dutch colonial rule, but there was a indigeonous population that was at least partly Muslim in make up,just like Thailand today where the southern part of the country has Muslim extremists. Indonesia has the most Muslims of any nation in the world and was a dutch colony until 1942. That makes the dutch connection interesting.

[shill]

John Karr's alibi, wife and family claims he spent Christmas with them. John Andrew Ramsey's alibi, spending Christmas with mom.
Christmas day is usually spent with loved ones and you are missed if you don't.
But if you're a muslim, then this day means nothing to you. If you're a college student, everyone is on break and visiting family. But a Muslim student would probably just hang in the dorm. The University is a short walk from the Ramsey's house.
A Muslim suspect who is in the country alone, either on a work visa or as a college student, would not be noticed missing if he was out that Christmas night.

[bullmoose]

It makes sense; an awful lot of students would be home for the holidays, so nobody would know who was where at CU. I would be willing to bet that this angle was never even thought of, by BPD or anybody else at the time. It would be difficult if not impossible to figure out at this point who fit this profile. Oddly,as far as I've heard, no photographic proof has emerged to show that Karr was actually with his family that Christmas.

[thewhitewitch1]

If someone told you to postpone your daughter's burial until you submit to their demands, your going to be upset for a lot of reasons.

Beheading was threatened, a threat more common to terrorist M.O.. They have threatened to behead people and then let them go. It's a threat.

John Ramsey worked on computers and so did most the people in his company. That's why I suspect them.


The comment about America was true. How can you respect a company that serves a country you hate? If you helped build the company and are a part of it but don't like it's client, you might say that. A little Muslim boy was interviewed on 60minutes or some show, and he was spewing hate and death to America. They asked him what he was going to do with his life and he said, " I want to go to Dearborn Michigan to go to school to become a dentist". They can hate our country, but love what it has to offer.


JK appears to have intimate knowledge which I'm claiming he got from the killer, which is why he's in Thailand. I'm not implying he partnered with him.


You'd think the Government would have been more concerned with this case.

Shill, you do have some good points but I am still not believing your scenerio.
Terrorists that threaten to behead someone and "let them go"....
JB was not "let go". They killed her. Why not behead her as threatened?
How can you "hate" a country but want to live there? Why would you "respect the company" if you were axed from it and had a personal vendetta against it? Words meant to imply the writer was someone or something that he/she wasn't. That's all. IMO
JMK actually knew nothing that most of us here don't know so I don't know how you would think a killer could have told him something he couldn't have already known. Also, why is he so obsessed with JB and why would he confess to killing her? He really thinks he did. That does not fit in with your "other killer" scenerio...or at least it is way out there.
To whomever said that the government and JR may know who the killer is and that it was an extortion attempt to get JR to reveal secrets; first I would find out how much JRs line of business had to do with with the weapons dept. of Lockheed Martin before I would go jumping to that conclusion. JR was a computer graphics professional so I'm not sure he would be involved in that area of the company at all.
Are you now saying that the killer is an Asian Dutch Muslim? :eek:
That would indeed be a "small foreign faction!"

[shill]

Terrorists that threaten to behead someone and "let them go"....
Why not behead her as threatened?I'm just pointing out they make threats to get what they want, but if they get what they want, they don't do it. That's what makes it terrorism. My point is this is a threat you would make casually if you where a Muslim. Doesn't mean the killer belongs to a group of terrorists.

How can you "hate" a country but want to live there? That's a true story. Yes it is surprising the irony of his decry, but that is the point.

Why would you "respect the company" if you were axed from it and had a personal vendetta against it?For the same reason you would hate a country but want to go to college there.

JMK actually knew nothing that most of us here don't know so I don't know how you would think a killer could have told him something he couldn't have already known. Also, why is he so obsessed with JB and why would he confess to killing her? He really thinks he did. That does not fit in with your "other killer" scenerio...or at least it is way out there.I don't think JMK is involved, but I think there is a chance he stumbled upon the killer, possibly in Thailand.

To whomever said that the government and JR may know who the killer is and that it was an extortion attempt to get JR to reveal secrets; first I would find out how much JRs line of business had to do with with the weapons dept. of Lockheed Martin before I would go jumping to that conclusion. JR was a computer graphics professional so I'm not sure he would be involved in that area of the company at all.True, that's why it was just talked about. If there is any truth there, I don't think anyone would be able to access that kind of info without top security clearance.

Are you now saying that the killer is an Asian Dutch Muslim? :eek:
That would indeed be a "small foreign faction!"I'm more convinced the person is Muslim then Asian. The Asian connection is tied to Sun Micro and John's tour in the Philippines, the garrote being legal in Philippines, our previous occupation there that a native might have resented, and such.
The Dutch books are so odd, so why wouldn't their explanation be odd, LOL.

[shill]

More than 15,000 Muslims live in metro Denver.

[Coloradokares]

More than 15,000 Muslims live in metro Denver.

I would have thought that a low number but thanks for the information. I am very hesitant to profile.

[shill]

I would have thought that a low number but thanks for the information. I am very hesitant to profile.Profiling is what you do to find suspects.
There's even a thread " Possible Murderer Profiles" on this blog site.
I was surprised there are that many Muslims in Metro Denver. Don't know what the count would be for Boulder in 1996, but I'd bet a lot of Muslims worked for the Access Graphic groups and the University.

[shill]

The paintbrush handle used for the garrote had the word "KOREA" imprinted on it. I have always thought it was unusual to break off the ends of the paintbrush because it would function the same way with out breaking it.
But maybe the intent was to feature the word "KOREA" and they wanted to draw attention to this.

[Athena]

Shill -- I am awed your post and it certainly makes much sense. Well thought out and articulated. JMO

[thewhitewitch1]

The paintbrush handle used for the garrote had the word "KOREA" imprinted on it. I have always thought it was unusual to break off the ends of the paintbrush because it would function the same way with out breaking it.
But maybe the intent was to feature the word "KOREA" and they wanted to draw attention to this.

Maybe it wasn't broken intentionally.

[bullmoose]

As far as I know, one piece of the paintbrush handle that was broken off was never found; IMO the missing piece would be one of the trophies the killer/s took away with him/ them to gloat over in the future. IMO it points towards there being a serial killer at work. Before you laugh at my theory, remember the BTK killer, who, as turned out, had trophies from victims that had not even been connected to him. The cops suspected the husband and father in the one case. None of his killings fit any pattern that I've ever read of before; and he was only caught because of his need for recognition started him communicating with the police again after , what 20 years of silence? His lack of knowledge about the trackability of computers was what tripped him up. I think, whoever done Jonbenet's murder is at least as smart as Dennis Raeder[BTK].

[shill]

Maybe it wasn't broken intentionally.
Maybe it was.

[thewhitewitch1]

Maybe it was.


If you've got a paintbrush and you wrap a cord around it and pull on it to tighten it, where do you suppose the paintbrush might break off if too much pressure was used? I would think it would snap off on both ends leaving just the middle wrapped portion. Isn't the middle part the part that was found with the cord around it?

[shill]

If you've got a paintbrush and you wrap a cord around it and pull on it to tighten it, where do you suppose the paintbrush might break off if too much pressure was used? I would think it would snap off on both ends leaving just the middle wrapped portion. Isn't the middle part the part that was found with the cord around it?

It would snap in the center where the cord was wrapped.

[thewhitewitch1]

It would snap in the center where the cord was wrapped.

You could be right. You don't think the cord might strengthen the middle section and cause the ends to break instead?

[Ames]

Maybe it wasn't broken intentionally.


Maybe it had been accidently broken BEFORE the night of the murder. Long shot...I know.

[shill]

Maybe it had been accidently broken BEFORE the night of the murder. Long shot...I know.
It was a pretty thick paintbrush. The brush bristles were in the paint tote and just a stub. So why leave two useless pieces of a paintbrush in the paint tote.
IMO the evidence shows she was violated with the brush, and that broken jagged handle of the garrote would have surely cut her up bad if it was used. But the smooth tapered end of the paintbrush that is missing would not be very damaging.

[Ames]

It was a pretty thick paintbrush. The brush bristles were in the paint tote and just a stub. So why leave two useless pieces of a paintbrush in the paint tote.
IMO the evidence shows she was violated with the brush, and that broken jagged handle of the garrote would have surely cut her up bad if it was used. But the smooth tapered end of the paintbrush that is missing would not be very damaging.

Are you thinking that the smooth tapered end, is what was used on her (insertion)? That would make sense...

[nuisanceposter]

Some people say it's possible the paintbrush was never inside her, speculating the cellulose splinter was on a finger that was inserted inside her.

I'm not sure, but I do think it seems like the person who left the splinter wasn't interested in using the paintbrush in a traditional sadistic pedophile manner - there wasn't enough damage. Someone who meant to defile her with the paintbrush to cause pain and humiliation for their own gratification would have injured her more than what was found.

I have to wonder why the person constructing the cord implement around JonBenet's neck wanted the handle to have both ends broken and jagged. I would think it would only require one break to get it to the desired size. I'd also think a killer intending to strangle a child would already have the garotte assembled before he even encountered the child.

[Ames]

<snipped>

I'm not sure, but I do think it seems like the person who left the splinter wasn't interested in using the paintbrush in a traditional sadistic pedophile manner - there wasn't enough damage. Someone who meant to defile her with the paintbrush to cause pain and humiliation for their own gratification would have injured her more than what was found.




My thoughts exactly...thats why I asked shill if he thought that it was the tapered end that was inserted. Someone trying to do damage...would have used the jagged end. (IMO) And how in the world would some sexual pervert become gratified, by inserting a finger with a glove?? I think that what little damage that was done to her, from the insertion, was to throw the police and investigators off course. (IMO)

[shill]

I don't think the insertion was an attempt to do damage, other then maybe the damage of JB not being a virgin anymore.
And again, her hymen opening was described to be enlarged to 1cm, and the smallest part of my pinky finger is 1.7cm. The paintbrush handle is 1cm in diameter. I'm assuming an object larger then 1cm would tear an opening larger then 1cm.
And again, if the missing paintbrush handle piece was still attached to the garrote handle when it was used to defile JB, it is part of a contraption that combines penetration and strangulation that coincide with it's use. This would be the sexual turn on of the garroting.