CBS: 48 Hours 11/25 10PM EST

[Athena]

Thanks MsOtis for the headsup.

I just set my recorder to tape the program at 10PM EST 11/25.

The summary view said "A decade later John Ramsey discusses newfound evidence"

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by Athena
Thanks MsOtis for the headsup.

I just set my recorder to tape the program at 10PM EST 11/25.

The summary view said "A decade later John Ramsey discusses newfound evidence"

Thanks, Athena. I wasn't sure whether to make a thread or a post and decided too late that a thread was better. The directions for my VCR are too small for me to read, so I will put a note on the fridge using my new magnet from Petmeds. :D

MissO

[Ames]

Thanks for the heads up guys! I cannot wait to find out what this new evidence consists of! Should be very interesting....

[Zoey]

Originally posted by Ames
Thanks for the heads up guys! I cannot wait to find out what this new evidence consists of! Should be very interesting....

Got my recorder set. I hope and pray that something new is brought to light and they finally have something they can go after the beast that killed this little girl.

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by Zoey


Got my recorder set. I hope and pray that something new is brought to light and they finally have something they can go after the beast that killed this little girl.

Especially since it took 10 years to find it. When the house and murderscene has been empty for all those years. It better blow our socks off!!

[Miss Marple]

Originally posted by Athena
Thanks MsOtis for the headsup.

I just set my recorder to tape the program at 10PM EST 11/25.

The summary view said "A decade later John Ramsey discusses newfound evidence"
Athena!
I tried responding twice to your query at Webbsleuths today, but the post got deleted twice. Jameson apparently isn't enthusiastic about links to my wiki on her site. FWIW, the information about panty size is here:
http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/The%20Body#Clothing

The wiki also includes a section on forthcoming books/media that may be of interest to your readers:
http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Sources#ForthcomingBooksandMedia
Best wishes,
Miss Marple

[Athena]

Originally posted by Miss Marple

Athena!
I tried responding twice to your query at Webbsleuths today, but the post got deleted twice. Jameson apparently isn't enthusiastic about links to my wiki on her site. FWIW, the information about panty size is here:
http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/The%20Body#Clothing

The wiki also includes a section on forthcoming books/media that may be of interest to your readers:
http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Sources#ForthcomingBooksandMedia
Best wishes,
Miss Marple

Thanks Miss Marple. I do see it in the affidavit. I did notice a comment by Jameson re: your site and the public forum closed down shortly thereafter. LOL

[MissOtisRegrets]

On the ad for the show a man (I don't know who he is) says that JMK hasn't been completely eliminated yet. I don't know if he means that in an official sense or if he was referring to his own investigation. It was just a quick clip with no context.

Miss Marple, are the you the Miss Marple, who was on the Robert Blake board in 2003?

:seeya:

MissO

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets
On the ad for the show a man (I don't know who he is) says that JMK hasn't been completely eliminated yet. I don't know if he means that in an official sense or if he was referring to his own investigation. It was just a quick clip with no context.

Miss Marple, are the you the Miss Marple, who was on the Robert Blake board in 2003?

:seeya:

MissO

Unless its the bluff of the century Colorado has zero interest in JMK.

[Athena]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Unless its the bluff of the century Colorado has zero interest in JMK.

I realize JMK was cleared but I completed reading that affidavit that Miss Marple gave us a link to and I have to say it sounds like the hypothetical book OJ is writing on how he would have killed Nicole.

It was posted before but I never finished reading it because he seemed just a kook.
I can actually visualize the murder reading that affidavit. It certainly is freaky with all of the details. JMO

[Zoey]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Especially since it took 10 years to find it. When the house and murderscene has been empty for all those years. It better blow our socks off!!

What do you mean been empty for all those years? It has been bought and sold three different times. It has only sat empty the last time since 2004.

[shill]

This will take you to a page with a video clip of John Mark Karr on Weekend Update on SNL.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/videos/

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by Zoey


What do you mean been empty for all those years? It has been bought and sold three different times. It has only sat empty the last time since 2004.

Bought and sold yes.......It has been empty. It is bought and sold more I'd say house with history.

[chatwuann]

I will certainly have my eyes glued on 48 hours this saturday night. I just hope this new evidence is something big.

[Athena]

Originally posted by shill
This will take you to a page with a video clip of John Mark Karr on Weekend Update on SNL.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/videos/

This is hysterical. Thanks for the laugh.
:lol:

[Ames]

Originally posted by shill
This will take you to a page with a video clip of John Mark Karr on Weekend Update on SNL.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/videos/

This was hilarious! Thanks for sharing!

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by Athena


I realize JMK was cleared but I completed reading that affidavit that Miss Marple gave us a link to and I have to say it sounds like the hypothetical book OJ is writing on how he would have killed Nicole.

It was posted before but I never finished reading it because he seemed just a kook.
I can actually visualize the murder reading that affidavit. It certainly is freaky with all of the details. JMO

I have to agree with that. However I also know a couple internet forum posters that I have to admit raised the hair on the back of neck with theories that were so plausible and their telling of it you wondered if they were there?!? You knew better you knew they just had details down pat so to speak but still....

[Athena]

bump - reminder!!! This is on tonight

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets
On the ad for the show a man (I don't know who he is) says that JMK hasn't been completely eliminated yet. I don't know if he means that in an official sense or if he was referring to his own investigation. It was just a quick clip with no context.

<snip>

MissO

Here's a link Zoey posted above (on the links thread) about JMK not being cleared.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,231921,00.html

[thewhitewitch1]

Did anyone watch? I didn't hear or see any new evidence. Mostly it seemed to target JMK.
If they still think he is guilty, I guess the DNA doesn't mean squat...which (to me) means that the Ramseys aren't cleared either.
What was irritating was the guy who said that because Karr mentioned another person, he thinks someone else was involved in this "conspiracy". JMK told the entire story of his involvement right down to how he killed her and never mentioned another person being there. When he made reference in his e-mails about another person, I believe he was talking about himself - JMK - since he referered to himself as Daxis in the e-mails. Just another part of his mental disorder.
The people on the show were clearly Pro-Ramsey (Smit, Tracey, Trip DeMuth) and I was really hoping to hear of new evidence but alas, not to be.
I was irritated to hear JR mention evidence against Karr was lost..because the computer evidence that was lost had nothing to do with JonBenet and had nothing to do with him being released in effect to her murder.
Also, I feel I missed a lot since the narrator (Erin Moriarty?) kept getting cut off the entire show.
I guess one good thing is that JMK is going to be watched. One thing everyone can agree on is that he is one creepy guy and should be locked away somewhere.

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


<snip>

I was irritated to hear JR mention evidence against Karr was lost..because the computer evidence that was lost had nothing to do with JonBenet and had nothing to do with him being released in effect to her murder.

<snip>



Why does it irritate you that John Ramsey said what some of the rest of us were thinking?

I'm irritated that the evidence was lost and now little girls in the wrong place at the right time are in danger of John Mark Karr.

JMO

[sweetcharlotte]

Link to 11/25/06 48 Hours......

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/48hours/main3410.shtml

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


Why does it irritate you that John Ramsey said what some of the rest of us were thinking?

I'm irritated that the evidence was lost and now little girls in the wrong place at the right time are in danger of John Mark Karr.

JMO

Because he was implying that it was evidence that he (JMK) had killed JonBenet.

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


Because he was implying that it was evidence that he (JMK) had killed JonBenet.

I didn't "hear" it that way at all. I can't speak for him, but my take on it was after hearing the telephone call - especially Karr talking about the little 5 year old in Thailand - the POS needs to be put away somewhere. That's what I think and I thought that was what JR meant.

JMO

ETA - John Ramsey was very specific that he would like to see someone arrested but he wants it to be the right person.

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1
Did anyone watch? I didn't hear or see any new evidence. Mostly it seemed to target JMK.
If they still think he is guilty, I guess the DNA doesn't mean squat...which (to me) means that the Ramseys aren't cleared either.
What was irritating was the guy who said that because Karr mentioned another person, he thinks someone else was involved in this "conspiracy". JMK told the entire story of his involvement right down to how he killed her and never mentioned another person being there. When he made reference in his e-mails about another person, I believe he was talking about himself - JMK - since he referered to himself as Daxis in the e-mails. Just another part of his mental disorder.
The people on the show were clearly Pro-Ramsey (Smit, Tracey, Trip DeMuth) and I was really hoping to hear of new evidence but alas, not to be.
I was irritated to hear JR mention evidence against Karr was lost..because the computer evidence that was lost had nothing to do with JonBenet and had nothing to do with him being released in effect to her murder.
Also, I feel I missed a lot since the narrator (Erin Moriarty?) kept getting cut off the entire show.
I guess one good thing is that JMK is going to be watched. One thing everyone can agree on is that he is one creepy guy and should be locked away somewhere.

Fox news coverage just had Craig Silverman on and he told it like it is.....if there is a conspiracy of Karr with the killer of JonBenet he might as well have said its not what IDIs would think. Craig Silverman is fired up hotter than hot. He is the Former DA who along with Bill Ritter consulted on the JonBenet matter. He said that DA Lacy bought into this intruder crud and this was her gift to the Ramseys. He told it like it is. Also he has a number one rated Talk show out here and he is fired up hot. He wants an explanation to what Homeland secruity even thinks its interest could be in a Boulder murder.... He also let everyone else have it with both barrels too. Keep your eye on Craig Silverman I can see it. He is one passionate dude. He is gonna rock the house.

Did I not say things are heating up in Boulder. He said there is not one bit of evidence that John Mark Karr remains under any suspicion and its all DA Lacey not wanting the accountibility for her fiasco so as long as she can claim interest she can keep accountibility from her doorstep. Now remember together Ritter and Silverman consulted on this matter.

I did think I'd wretch when Ramsey said he felt sorry for Karr. Now if you knew some sick sucker wanted to have sex with your little girl...How sorry could you feel? NOT!!

[sweetcharlotte]

ROFL.........Craig Silverman is a former associate DA. Does that tell you anything? Former as is "ain't no more"........... Isnt' he a talk show host now? ROFL......

JMO

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte
ROFL.........Craig Silverman is a former associate DA. Does that tell you anything? Former as is "ain't no more"........... Isnt' he a talk show host now? ROFL......

JMO

Funny...Lou Smit is a former too but you find nothing he has to say very funny. :D

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


Funny...Lou Smit is a former too but you find nothing he has to say very funny. :D

Lou Smit has solved over 200 murder cases and was hired to investigate this case.

Silverman - he's on radio now, I believe. :D

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte
ROFL.........Craig Silverman is a former associate DA. Does that tell you anything? Former as is "ain't no more"........... Isnt' he a talk show host now? ROFL......

JMO

With the number one rated talk show out here !!! Yes he and could it be Governor Elect Ritter who together consulted on the JonBenet murder. He is fired up hot hot hot. And one of the fox news people intruduced him as the one in the know on the Ramsey murder investigation. You go ahead and get yourself a good laugh in right now. Ye who laughs last.....yup the winds o change be blowin out here.... Craig named the names and told it pretty much right on target right on national tv fox news not 20 minutes ago.... I hope the transcript of that news that aired right after the 48 hour showing goes up on this really soon. He even said it like it was about DA Lacey. Said Karr was nothing more than Lacy's gift to Ramsey.

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Fox news coverage just had Craig Silverman on and he told it like it is.....if there is a conspiracy of Karr with the killer of JonBenet he might as well have said its not what IDIs would think. Craig Silverman is fired up hotter than hot. He is the Former DA who along with Bill Ritter consulted on the JonBenet matter. He said that DA Lacy bought into this intruder crud and this was her gift to the Ramseys. He told it like it is. Also he has a number one rated Talk show out here and he is fired up hot. He wants an explanation to what Homeland secruity even thinks its interest could be in a Boulder murder.... He also let everyone else have it with both barrels too. Keep your eye on Craig Silverman I can see it. He is one passionate dude. He is gonna rock the house.



Sounds like he's trying to get ratings to me. JMO

[shill]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


With the number one rated talk show out here !!! Yes he and could it be Governor Elect Ritter who together consulted on the JonBenet murder. He is fired up hot hot hot. And one of the fox news people intruduced him as the one in the know on the Ramsey murder investigation. You go ahead and get yourself a good laugh in right now. Ye who laughs last.....yup the winds o change be blowin out here.... Craig named the names and told it pretty much right on target right on national tv fox news not 20 minutes ago.... I hope the transcript of that news that aired right after the 48 hour showing goes up on this really soon. He even said it like it was about DA Lacey. Said Karr was nothing more than Lacy's gift to Ramsey. Rush Limba has a number one rated show and he's a pill popping bag of hot wind that I'm sure a lot of people would like to elect to office. America is full of idiots.
It's the one country were you have a right to be an idiot and you can sue people because you're an idiot and because they didn't provide you, an idiot, with the proper warnings that most normal people don't need.
Doesn't mean these people who cater to idiots are worthy of respect and honor.

[LindaA]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


Because he was implying that it was evidence that he (JMK) had killed JonBenet.

No, he absolutely was not implying anything. Where in the world did you get that idea?

[sweetcharlotte]

Link to article on 11/25/06 "48 Hours"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/22/48hours/main2205636_page7.shtml

[LadyFisher]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Fox news coverage just had Craig Silverman on and he told it like it is.....if there is a conspiracy of Karr with the killer of JonBenet he might as well have said its not what IDIs would think. Craig Silverman is fired up hotter than hot. He is the Former DA who along with Bill Ritter consulted on the JonBenet matter. He said that DA Lacy bought into this intruder crud and this was her gift to the Ramseys. He told it like it is. Also he has a number one rated Talk show out here and he is fired up hot. He wants an explanation to what Homeland secruity even thinks its interest could be in a Boulder murder.... He also let everyone else have it with both barrels too. Keep your eye on Craig Silverman I can see it. He is one passionate dude. He is gonna rock the house.

Did I not say things are heating up in Boulder. He said there is not one bit of evidence that John Mark Karr remains under any suspicion and its all DA Lacey not wanting the accountibility for her fiasco so as long as she can claim interest she can keep accountibility from her doorstep. Now remember together Ritter and Silverman consulted on this matter.

I did think I'd wretch when Ramsey said he felt sorry for Karr. Now if you knew some sick sucker wanted to have sex with your little girl...How sorry could you feel? NOT!! The "intruder crud" you keep mentioning is DNA on JBs body that isn't linked to the Ramseys...how can this talk show host get around that? Your post almost sounds to me like there are folks who would love to see the Ramseys convicted of a crime whether they actually committed it or not! :eek: I noticed at the end of the show that John is pushing for legislation of all convicted felons to give dna, I just assumed they did? Let's find out who that DNA belongs to before we convict someone in this case, my best guess is it belongs to the true killer!

[LadyFisher]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


I didn't "hear" it that way at all. I can't speak for him, but my take on it was after hearing the telephone call - especially Karr talking about the little 5 year old in Thailand - the POS needs to be put away somewhere. That's what I think and I thought that was what JR meant.

JMO

ETA - John Ramsey was very specific that he would like to see someone arrested but he wants it to be the right person. That's exactly the way I understood it, too! And I have more respect for Lou Smit than any talk show host that is an ex-whatever....wonder why he's so hot hot hot as CK states, has he had his dna tested lately? jmho

[Knot4u2no]

Not much new on 48 Hours, but I do now wonder if there isn’t a network of computer and telephone links that federal LE can reconstruct to nail JMK, even if his computer was “lost.”

Russell

[docg]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


Lou Smit has solved over 200 murder cases and was hired to investigate this case.

Silverman - he's on radio now, I believe. :D

No one in the world has EVER "solved 200 murder cases." That's an incredibly arrogant way to describe oneself. Smit may have participated in solving 200 cases, but the way he tells it, he did it all on his own, which is a ridiculous and also dishonest claim.

[nuisanceposter]

Originally posted by LadyFisher
The "intruder crud" you keep mentioning is DNA on JBs body that isn't linked to the Ramseys...how can this talk show host get around that? Your post almost sounds to me like there are folks who would love to see the Ramseys convicted of a crime whether they actually committed it or not! :eek: I noticed at the end of the show that John is pushing for legislation of all convicted felons to give dna, I just assumed they did? Let's find out who that DNA belongs to before we convict someone in this case, my best guess is it belongs to the true killer!

That DNA was degraded and fragmented, and Dr Henry Lee proved that unopened unwashed underwear have DNA on them. There's no proof that the DNA came from the killer.

If the DNA came from the killer, why is that sample so degraded and fragmented while JonBenet's was fresh and complete? Hmmm, didn't see them get into THAT on this show.

And WTF was Smit talking about saying JonBenet struggled with her killer? Where is the evidence of that?

Very telling to me that the people featured on this show (lol @ Tracey being on it!!!) presented "facts" but failed to disclose how they came to those conclusions, or what other explanations could pertain.

I'd really like to see a show about JBR that isn't based on either the IDI or RDI theory, but one that just honestly presents the evidence and then discusses the possibilities of each thing.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter


I'd really like to see a show about JBR that isn't based on either the IDI or RDI theory, but one that just honestly presents the evidence and then discusses the possibilities of each thing.

Although I am an IDI, I totally agree, np. I was disappointed that the question of whether or not the DNA in JonBenet's panties had the same profile as that from under her fingernails wasn't clarified. It was implied that it was the same, but not actually stated, which made me suspect that it probably isn't.

[Athena]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


Because he was implying that it was evidence that he (JMK) had killed JonBenet.

Wow TWW. I hope you taped the show or at least read the story again from the link sweet posted below. JR did not say anything about the evidence being linked to JBR.

He is upset that JMK had 5 pornographic charges against him that could not be upheld in court because of lost evidence and certainly has every right to feel that way.

Most Americans feel the same way that JR feels re: this lost evidence and what it means. Due to this lost evidence this man does not have a record for goodness sake. He cannot even be classified as a sexual offender and technically is still eligilble for a teaching job. I'm sure with a public outcry that possibly may not happen at least in the US but there is absolutely nothing that bars him from being around children.

This man believes it is OK to have sex with children -- he has no personal qualms about it at all. It is totally amazing to me that those tapes and his own words could not be held against him. JMO

[Athena]

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets


Although I am an IDI, I totally agree, np. I was disappointed that the question of whether or not the DNA in JonBenet's panties had the same profile as that from under her fingernails wasn't clarified. It was implied that it was the same, but not actually stated, which made me suspect that it probably isn't.

I was actually disappointed in the entire program partly for the same reason and also because I thought there was really going to be a new development other than the fact that Karr is still being watched.

Karr should still be under scrutiny just because of his public comments re: nothing wrong with having sex with children and showing no remorse. He is a sick pervert for sure.

If this is not a DNA case - I would certainly believe that he could have killed JBR. I believe his comments went way beyond just "confessing". He was extremely detailed and graphic and the comment about wanting Patsy's forgiveness was just very eerie. IMO

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


Because he was implying that it was evidence that he (JMK) had killed JonBenet.

Whitewitch, I got a phone call just as the show was starting last night and had to tape the show and watch it later. I read the board response to the show before watching the tape. I watched for the point you are making. JR was speaking of the pornography charges against Karr, when he said that.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by Athena


I was actually disappointed in the entire program partly for the same reason and also because I thought there was really going to be a new development other than the fact that Karr is still being watched.

Karr should still be under scrutiny just because of his public comments re: nothing wrong with having sex with children and showing no remorse. He is a sick pervert for sure.

If this is not a DNA case - I would certainly believe that he could have killed JBR. I believe his comments went way beyond just "confessing". He was extremely detailed and graphic and the comment about wanting Patsy's forgiveness was just very eerie. IMO

The man is so creepy (MOO). I think he has fantasized himself into this whole thing and has Patsy confused with his own mother. IMO if he hasn't done something already, he will. As far as JonBenet goes, though, the facts that he can't be placed in Boulder and that he is not known to have mentioned JonBenet until the case became public speak against his involvement for me. More than the fact that there isn't a DNA match. At her press conference, I remember Mary Lacy saying that dozens had confessed.

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by docg


No one in the world has EVER "solved 200 murder cases." That's an incredibly arrogant way to describe oneself. Smit may have participated in solving 200 cases, but the way he tells it, he did it all on his own, which is a ridiculous and also dishonest claim.

Did Lou Smit describe himself that way?

[Louisadelmar]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


Did Lou Smit describe himself that way?

No. That was a voice over while they showed a list of what appeared to be the dates of the murders he solved. It was a long list.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets


Whitewitch, I got a phone call just as the show was starting last night and had to tape the show and watch it later. I read the board response to the show before watching the tape. I watched for the point you are making. JR was speaking of the pornography charges against Karr, when he said that.

I guess I interpruted it wrong then. Still...it's pretty strange for JR to say that he "felt sorry" for JMK for the way the media treated him, despite the fact that the guy is an admitted pedophile.

[Louisadelmar]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


I guess I interpruted it wrong then. Still...it's pretty strange for JR to say that he "felt sorry" for JMK for the way the media treated him, despite the fact that the guy is an admitted pedophile.

But didn't John Ramsey say something along the lines of - He was surprised to find himself feeling sorry for him. I hope a transcript is put up at some point soon.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally posted by Louisadelmar


But didn't John Ramsey say something along the lines of - He was surprised to find himself feeling sorry for him. I hope a transcript is put up at some point soon.

Yes, he did say that but I still think it's weird to feel sorry for someone who think it's ok to have sex with little girls, and especially when this person has described how he killed JRs OWN daughter, whether it was a sick fantasy or not.

[nuisanceposter]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


Yes, he did say that but I still think it's weird to feel sorry for someone who think it's ok to have sex with little girls, and especially when this person has described how he killed JRs OWN daughter, whether it was a sick fantasy or not.

I gotta agree here. Let's find out how many fathers of murdered girls have felt sorry for the pedo who confessed to killing his little girl, in televised detail. I think JR might be standing alone on that one. I know for a fact that neither Marc Klaas nor Mark Lunsford feel sorry for the creeps who assaulted and murdered their daughters. I highly doubt Steve Groene has any sympathy whatsoever for the sicko that held his son and daughter hostage, raping them both and killing one of them.

[sweetcharlotte]

It's easier to understand what he said and meant if it isn't taken out of context.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/22/48hours/main2205636_page7.shtml


"The intensity of the feeding frenzy even got to John Ramsey, who knows exactly what it feels like.

"He was so abused and vilified and convicted in the media that I started to feel sorry for the guy, which is a bizarre feeling," Ramsey says. "Having been through what we went through, I was gonna be the last guy that leaped out there and said, 'Aha! This is the guy!'”

[Athena]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter


I gotta agree here. Let's find out how many fathers of murdered girls have felt sorry for the pedo who confessed to killing his little girl, in televised detail. I think JR might be standing alone on that one. I know for a fact that neither Marc Klaas nor Mark Lunsford feel sorry for the creeps who assaulted and murdered their daughters. I highly doubt Steve Groene has any sympathy whatsoever for the sicko that held his son and daughter hostage, raping them both and killing one of them.

NP: Bad comparisons. JMK was cleared. I believe JR meant it in the context of how the media villified him much like the Ramseys were without evidence.

I seriously doubt big time if JR would have said anything of the sort had the evidence linked JMK to the murder of JBR. I am sure, more than us, wishes it had been to put closure on this. JMO

[shill]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter


I gotta agree here. Let's find out how many fathers of murdered girls have felt sorry for the pedo who confessed to killing his little girl, in televised detail. I think JR might be standing alone on that one. I know for a fact that neither Marc Klaas nor Mark Lunsford feel sorry for the creeps who assaulted and murdered their daughters. I highly doubt Steve Groene has any sympathy whatsoever for the sicko that held his son and daughter hostage, raping them both and killing one of them. If Karr turns out to be the killer, you can bet John will have no sympathy for Karr what so ever.
I'm sorry you people don't have any sympathy for people with mental illnesses.
Maybe if he had a thyroid problem you would show him some sympathy.
Karr has not been accused of molesting anyone and can't hold a match to the dangerous sexual monsters that are out there looking for your children.
Even Michael Jackson is worse then Karr.

[Louisadelmar]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte
It's easier to understand what he said and meant if it isn't taken out of context.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/11/22/48hours/main2205636_page7.shtml


"The intensity of the feeding frenzy even got to John Ramsey, who knows exactly what it feels like.

"He was so abused and vilified and convicted in the media that I started to feel sorry for the guy, which is a bizarre feeling," Ramsey says. "Having been through what we went through, I was gonna be the last guy that leaped out there and said, 'Aha! This is the guy!'”

Thank you, sweetcharlotte. It is so much better when we can see the whole quote.

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by shill
Rush Limba has a number one rated show and he's a pill popping bag of hot wind that I'm sure a lot of people would like to elect to office. America is full of idiots.
It's the one country were you have a right to be an idiot and you can sue people because you're an idiot and because they didn't provide you, an idiot, with the proper warnings that most normal people don't need.
Doesn't mean these people who cater to idiots are worthy of respect and honor.

Well Craig Silverman isn't an idiot...not even.....But I can't help but wonder if you'd like to take him on face to face. You know internet poster vs Craig Silverman. I'd sell tickets. We'd soon see who was the idiot... anyone want to venture a guess with me?

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally posted by Louisadelmar


Thank you, sweetcharlotte. It is so much better when we can see the whole quote.

I saw the whole quote before SC posted it and I still feel the same.
Shill...I don't "feel sorry" for JMK. If you have heard the tapes of the phone calls he made to Michael Tracey or read his e-mail, I can't imagine how YOU can feel sorry for him. He has said that he has done things to other little girls. Whether he has or not, we don't know but just hearing him talk about it makes me sick.
I'd rather save my sympathy for his victims, or potential ones.

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


Sounds like he's trying to get ratings to me. JMO

Nope you can tell exactly who he wants to get ....and its not ratings.

[shill]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Well Craig Silverman isn't an idiot...not even.....But I can't help but wonder if you'd like to take him on face to face. You know internet poster vs Craig Silverman. I'd sell tickets. We'd soon see who was the idiot... anyone want to venture a guess with me? As long as your there posting for comic relief.

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Nope you can tell exactly who he wants to get ....and its not ratings.

So, CK, what is it he wants? Justice for JonBenet? Where has he been and what has he been doing for the last ten years? It seems he is critical of the ones who have been trying to do something for JonBenet. Why is his opinion that they didn't do/haven't done what they should the correct opinion? Why is he questioning how Lacy handled the matter with JMK? Would he have handled it differently? How? You stated he worked with Ritter before and now you want Ritter to appoint a special prosecutor to look into the case. With what Silverman is spewing - and assuming he has some clout with Ritter - I question just how un-biased the special prosecution team would me.

Sounds like the ratings game to me...... JMO

[docg]

Originally posted by Louisadelmar


No. That was a voice over while they showed a list of what appeared to be the dates of the murders he solved. It was a long list.

Gee, where do you suppose they got that list?

The bit about Lou "solving" all those cases is always brought up when team Ramsey is feeding info to the media. He's had plenty of time to correct that mistake.

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by docg


Gee, where do you suppose they got that list?

The bit about Lou "solving" all those cases is always brought up when team Ramsey is feeding info to the media. He's had plenty of time to correct that mistake.

ROFL.......in the overall scheme of things do you really think this is a big issue?

Fact is he is/was a good investigator and did PARTICIPATE in the solving of a lot of cases. Bear it mind it was BPD who first requested his assistance in this case - not team Ramsey.

JMO

[Athena]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


ROFL.......in the overall scheme of things do you really think this is a big issue?

Fact is he is/was a good investigator and did PARTICIPATE in the solving of a lot of cases. Bear it mind it was BPD who first requested his assistance in this case - not team Ramsey.

JMO

Remind me again of how many the BPD participated in and solved?

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by Athena


Remind me again of how many the BPD participated in and solved?

LOL

Tell me - is it true that Patsy and Priscilla had the same "Christmas" jacket?

[nuisanceposter]

Lou Smit has some basic information in this case wrong, such as JonBenet having blood under her fingernails and struggling with her attacker.

His whole decision that the Ramseys couldn't have done this after he met them and prayed them - oh, yes, and asked them if they were the killer, to which they denied - without following the evidence is completely unconscionable to me.

He's the one who tried to make the evidence fit his theory. He went around pulling things out of thin air and trying to figure out how they could fit this crime - such as the rope in JAR's room. Look again, folks, that rope doesn't look anything like what was used on JB. That rope looks exactly like rope that the Rs used as decoration. There are pictures of it and pictures with it being seen in the background in pictures of Patsy and JonBenet at FFJ.

No one went through that window. That video of him going through is suspiciously edited between him going in on one side and being seen dropping down to the floor in the next. What was edited out, and why? How did an intruder go through that window without leaving any fiber evidence, or prints, when it only measusres 18 X 30 inches? What about the spider web? What about the chair on the other side of the train room door?

Lou Smit sat there without saying a single word at the meeting with CASKU meant to discuss and examine the evidence and all possible angles. Why didn't he present his theory, when that was the point of the whole meeting - to discuss theories and try to figure out, based on the evidence, what happened to JonBenet?

I don't care what his record in any other case is, his record in the JBR case is zero. Pretty hard to solve the crime when you have basic facts wrong and don't even bother to share your theory with experts who want to discuss it.

[nuisanceposter]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


LOL

Tell me - is it true that Patsy and Priscilla had the same "Christmas" jacket?

Patsy certainly tried to imply that they did.

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter


Patsy certainly tried to imply that they did.

That wasn't my question. :)

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


So, CK, what is it he wants? Justice for JonBenet? Where has he been and what has he been doing for the last ten years? It seems he is critical of the ones who have been trying to do something for JonBenet. Why is his opinion that they didn't do/haven't done what they should the correct opinion? Why is he questioning how Lacy handled the matter with JMK? Would he have handled it differently? How? You stated he worked with Ritter before and now you want Ritter to appoint a special prosecutor to look into the case. With what Silverman is spewing - and assuming he has some clout with Ritter - I question just how un-biased the special prosecution team would me.

Sounds like the ratings game to me...... JMO

Ok , I venture a guess from listening to him across the years. Waht he would want is justice for JonBenet Ramsey. Same as the rest of us. I can't even pretend to elaborate on the details of what he might detail as justice. Call in to his talk show for clarification if you feel so led. You would feel that its ratings being that you don't believe the Ramseys had a thing to do at any level with their daughters untimely death and violation or coverup.

You have to know that everyone in the world does not necessarily agree with your view on this murder. Some of us want answers. Not speculation. We feel that the best way to achieve that end is to appoint an office of special prosecutor and lay it all out Exhibit A on through to Z, dot the I's cross the t's and reach a conclusion that no longer leaves doubt.

Craig Silverman has not disappeared or gone away regarding this matter in the last 10 years if that is what you think. He is not considered the laughing stock as you'd like to suggest. He can be quite forceful when interviewing regarding this matter so get the p's and q's in order if you decide to place that call. He has handed bigger fish their hooks than you or me. He has dealt with actual players in the matter. Some of it was actually very entertaining.

You have to realize if we ( meaning the state of Colorado) ultimately do appoint an office of special prosecutor. Ritter will not run it and doubtful Silverman would . Ritter would if he deems it appropriate once he takes office appoint it. No one would influence that office if it is properly conducted. It would be a matter of here is the evidence. All of it... You must render a decision if there is a viable avenue to prosecute fully under our laws. We are still a long ways off from the appointment of this office. It is only my humble opinion as things continue to brew on this case once again. Appointment is maybe a considerably more likely option than it has ever been pre Karr. I think a case can be raised to show this case needs to be taken out of the hands of the office of the DA. Not that Lacy is a bad person. She would of liked to handled the Karr situation out of the media lights in a way no one would of even heard of JMK .

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by shill
As long as your there posting for comic relief.

Deal or no deal : you get the televised event between you and Silverman set and I'll commit to be posting my opinion of this case on a computer screen up in the right hand corner of the screen providing your viewing public comic relief. It would be worth it. I would consider it an honor. If that is all it'd take to get you head to head with Silverman.... DEAL

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


ROFL.......in the overall scheme of things do you really think this is a big issue?

Fact is he is/was a good investigator and did PARTICIPATE in the solving of a lot of cases. Bear it mind it was BPD who first requested his assistance in this case - not team Ramsey.

JMO

Yes he did. He had found an intruder before in a valuable case. What seems suspect is that he has not actually found one in this matter.

[bullmoose]

CK: What are you talking about? Are you actually being dismissive of Lou Smit in the way that your last post shows, or is your last post a mistake? He was brought in by the BPD, his record as a homicide investigater is impressive, your put-down notwithstanding.

[shill]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter

That video of him going through is suspiciously edited between him going in on one side and being seen dropping down to the floor in the next. What was edited out, and why?

They edited out his 10yr old 75lb stunt double.

Could you be any more ignorant? Unbelievable!

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by bullmoose
CK: What are you talking about? Are you actually being dismissive of Lou Smit in the way that your last post shows, or is your last post a mistake? He was brought in by the BPD, his record as a homicide investigater is impressive, your put-down notwithstanding.

Not at all... Lou Smit was a really good investigator from anything I had heard he helped to solve many cases. That is not a put down. However to this point at least in this case he has not produced an intruder. That does not mean you can discount his entire career. Again where is the put down. Let me say it clearly so their is no doubt. He has not produced an intruder only an intruder theory into this case.

[Ames]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter


I gotta agree here. Let's find out how many fathers of murdered girls have felt sorry for the pedo who confessed to killing his little girl, in televised detail. I think JR might be standing alone on that one. I know for a fact that neither Marc Klaas nor Mark Lunsford feel sorry for the creeps who assaulted and murdered their daughters. I highly doubt Steve Groene has any sympathy whatsoever for the sicko that held his son and daughter hostage, raping them both and killing one of them.

Remember when JMK was first arrested and John Ramsey said not to rush to judge him, or something to that effect? I hate to say this, but its almost like he knew that JMK was not the killer, long before the dna results, and he was cleared. (IMO)

[Ames]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter
Lou Smit has some basic information in this case wrong, such as JonBenet having blood under her fingernails and struggling with her attacker.

His whole decision that the Ramseys couldn't have done this after he met them and prayed them - oh, yes, and asked them if they were the killer, to which they denied - without following the evidence is completely unconscionable to me.

He's the one who tried to make the evidence fit his theory. He went around pulling things out of thin air and trying to figure out how they could fit this crime - such as the rope in JAR's room. Look again, folks, that rope doesn't look anything like what was used on JB. That rope looks exactly like rope that the Rs used as decoration. There are pictures of it and pictures with it being seen in the background in pictures of Patsy and JonBenet at FFJ.

No one went through that window. That video of him going through is suspiciously edited between him going in on one side and being seen dropping down to the floor in the next. What was edited out, and why? How did an intruder go through that window without leaving any fiber evidence, or prints, when it only measusres 18 X 30 inches? What about the spider web? What about the chair on the other side of the train room door?

Lou Smit sat there without saying a single word at the meeting with CASKU meant to discuss and examine the evidence and all possible angles. Why didn't he present his theory, when that was the point of the whole meeting - to discuss theories and try to figure out, based on the evidence, what happened to JonBenet?

I don't care what his record in any other case is, his record in the JBR case is zero. Pretty hard to solve the crime when you have basic facts wrong and don't even bother to share your theory with experts who want to discuss it.

Don't forget the pineapple...the "bugaboo".....was totally left out of the 48 Hours Special.

[shill]

Originally posted by Ames


Don't forget the pineapple...the "bugaboo".....was totally left out of the 48 Hours Special. If Patsy or Burke fed JB pineapple, other then they lied, what does that prove?

[LindaA]

Originally posted by shill
If Patsy or Burke fed JB pineapple, other then they lied, what does that prove?

I think the RDIs' point is that they lied about it to cover up the fact that, contrary to their story, she had to have been awake after she got home and that would have provided an opportunity for something to happen to initiate the chain of events that led to her murder by either PR or JBR. Good point, IMO.

[sweetcharlotte]

The pineapple has never bothered me. JonBenet did not feel well that day. I think she probably helped herself to the pineapple from the refrig before they went to the Whites. Has anyone ever heard anyone say she actually ate any of the cracked crab at the Whites? JMO

[LindaA]

Hmmm, Sweet, I've heard she was served it, but I don't believe I've ever read that she actually ate any. There was someting ono FFJ to the effect that JBR might have thrown up during her attack. (The thrust of the story was that PR faked a vomiting spell in front of others to cover up the vomitus stain in the house.) I"ve never heard anyone here mention that, so the poster may have been out in left field. I don't think there is evidence of a stain anywhere, but if that had happened she may have not completely emptied her stomach when she vomioted and that would account for the pineapple. JMO.

[sweetcharlotte]

Hi Linda, I don't even know what to say about the "faked vomiting spell"........so I just won't say anything. :)

[nuisanceposter]

Originally posted by shill
If Patsy or Burke fed JB pineapple, other then they lied, what does that prove?

That they feel the need to lie and must have something to hide. Why would they need to lie? What else are they lying about?

She ate something prior to the pineapple, because it was found in her large intestine. Experts accept it as the crab due to its location and consistency. The pineapple wasn't far enough digested to have been eaten prior to going to the White's. It was still in relatively good condition, looking as though it had been poorly chewed.

Personally, I think JonBenet was too busy playing at the White's to bother eating very much and was hungry when the family got home. My youngest does this all the time - he's too busy and too interested in other things when we're out to waste time eating (even in a restaurant), so after we get home he's hungry and wants something.

I've heard of vomit as well, but only once (twice now), and with very little detail.

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter


<snip>
Experts accept it as the crab due to its location and consistency. The pineapple wasn't far enough digested to have been eaten prior to going to the White's. It was still in relatively good condition, looking as though it had been poorly chewed.

<snip>


What "experts?" Link please.

[Ames]

Originally posted by LindaA
Hmmm, Sweet, I've heard she was served it, but I don't believe I've ever read that she actually ate any. There was someting ono FFJ to the effect that JBR might have thrown up during her attack. (The thrust of the story was that PR faked a vomiting spell in front of others to cover up the vomitus stain in the house.) I"ve never heard anyone here mention that, so the poster may have been out in left field. I don't think there is evidence of a stain anywhere, but if that had happened she may have not completely emptied her stomach when she vomioted and that would account for the pineapple. JMO.

I also, have read that Patsy faked a vomiting spell, to cover up the stains where JB had vomited.

[LadyFisher]

Originally posted by docg


Gee, where do you suppose they got that list?

The bit about Lou "solving" all those cases is always brought up when team Ramsey is feeding info to the media. He's had plenty of time to correct that mistake. We can be certain of one thing....Lou Smit solved a heck of a lot more cases than Steve Thomas! You have to consider this man seriously, he knows his stuff.....I also take seriously John Douglas' thoughts on this case...you just can't rule out their opinions that easily if you are trying to be openminded! jmho

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by LadyFisher
We can be certain of one thing....Lou Smit solved a heck of a lot more cases than Steve Thomas! You have to consider this man seriously, he knows his stuff.....I also take seriously John Douglas' thoughts on this case...you just can't rule out their opinions that easily if you are trying to be openminded! jmho

I totally agree. What's interesting is that these people took the position that the Ramseys had nothing to do with the murder of the daughter based on their years of experience and expertise at a time when it would have been "easier" to just jump on the RDI bandwagon.

JMO.

(Oh, wait - I hear a "money talks" post in the making. :D)

[Athena]

JONBENET PROBE TO RE-OPEN
By Lara Gould Tv Reporter
A FORMER teacher cleared of killing child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey is back under investigation for the crime.

John Mark Karr, 41, was charged last August with the murder after confessing to a British academic. But the charge was dropped when DNA tests failed to link him to the killing.

JonBenet, six, was strangled at her home in Boulder, Colorado, on Christmas night 1996.

Now a Channel 4 documentary, The Killing of JonBenet: An Evil Twist, to be screened next month, will reveal US police have reopened their investigation into Karr.

Detectives believe he may have committed the crime with an accomplice.

http://tinyurl.com/y2l7ho

[LindaA]

Athena, I certainly got that impression from the show the other night. I wonder what has brought about this turn of events. I can only think there must be info we are not privy to. I have always thought that.

[sweetcharlotte]

Was the ex-wife ever able to provide an proof that he was in AL as she initially claimed?

[LindaA]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte
Was the ex-wife ever able to provide an proof that he was in AL as she initially claimed?

The last I heard she was not. She provided a video tape that showed his children and said that if the children were there, then he was there. I never heard anything different. (can you feel the RDIs' eyes rolling? LOL)

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by LindaA


The last I heard she was not. She provided a video tape that showed his children and said that if the children were there, then he was there. I never heard anything different. (can you feel the RDIs' eyes rolling? LOL)

:D

[Ames]

Changing the subject here.....sorry guys....but, I am still wondering about that piece of music that Patsy played by memory. (JB's last piece that she learned). Another poster on another forum stated that JB's fingers would have been too small, to play those rolling chords. Being a former piano teacher...I have to agree. Does anyone know how long she took piano lessons?....I stated on another thread, that the piece that Patsy played, seemed too complicated for a six year old....unless, of course, she was a child prodigy. It was not a difficult piece...but, would have been for a six year old child, just starting out with her piano lessons. (I noticed the treble and bass octave changes).

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally posted by Ames
Changing the subject here.....sorry guys....but, I am still wondering about that piece of music that Patsy played by memory. (JB's last piece that she learned). Another poster on another forum stated that JB's fingers would have been too small, to play those rolling chords. Being a former piano teacher...I have to agree. Does anyone know how long she took piano lessons?....I stated on another thread, that the piece that Patsy played, seemed too complicated for a six year old....unless, of course, she was a child prodigy. It was not a difficult piece...but, would have been for a six year old child, just starting out with her piano lessons. (I noticed the treble and bass octave changes).

I have never even heard that she played the piano. I've read that she took violin lessons briefly but never the piano.
So...Patsy plays the piano while being filmed for a tv documentary and tears roll down her cheeks. Wow. She MUST be innocent. :rolleyes:

If anyone really believes that JMK and an "accomplice" killed JB...well, I would be surprised as hell if this is found to be true. TWO people in that house doing all of these things and nobody heard them. If there were two people, why did JMK tell his story in such detail, confessing to killing her and just failed to mention the other person? I believe this is just another wild goose chase and will result in nothing.

[Ames]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


I have never even heard that she played the piano. I've read that she took violin lessons briefly but never the piano.
So...Patsy plays the piano while being filmed for a tv documentary and tears roll down her cheeks. Wow. She MUST be innocent. :rolleyes:

If anyone really believes that JMK and an "accomplice" killed JB...well, I would be surprised as hell if this is found to be true. TWO people in that house doing all of these things and nobody heard them. If there were two people, why did JMK tell his story in such detail, confessing to killing her and just failed to mention the other person? I believe this is just another wild goose chase and will result in nothing.

Yeah, that is a little bit far fetched....okay, now....TWO intruders were in the Ramsey house that night, and the Ramsey's didn't hear a thing??

I never knew that JB took piano lessons either, until I read it somewhere about a week ago. But, as Patsy played...even though I cried with her, I kept thinking that how would anyone KNOW that this was JB last piece? Because the Ramsey's say that it is so? For all we know, JB never played that piece of music in her life. From my experience...kids that take music lessons, along with "a million" other activites....such as pageants, sports, dance, etc., have a better chance at not ever having a chance to practice, and therefore....not making a very good musician. IMO

[shill]

You didn't know JB played piano, so it must be another lie. And you feel compelled to prove it.
Doesn't change the murder scenerio that she knew how to play, but you need to make Patsy a lier so you can live with your hate.

[Ames]

Originally posted by shill
You didn't know JB played piano, so it must be another lie. And you feel compelled to prove it.
Doesn't change the murder scenerio that she knew how to play, but you need to make Patsy a lier so you can live with your hate.

Were you directing that at me? No, I read about a week ago, even before the special aired, that JB had taken lessons....I was just wondering how long she had been taking....that's all. I never said that Patsy was lying....about that piece that she played...all I said is that she COULD HAVE BEEN. Who knows? And just because I am RDI, that doesn't mean that I hate anybody...it just means that I think that a Ramsey or both Ramsey's did it....that's all. (IMO)

[bullmoose]

Ames: One thing we all know about Jonbenet is that she was murdered, in an especially foul and cruel way. I didn't know that she was taking piano lessons, but you and I both know that if she wasn't, somebody is going to dispute the claim. Just because Patsy played the piece well doesn't mean Jonbenet did, she may have played it poorly, but so what? Why is there such an automatic disbelief for anything the Ramseys say? A child like Jonbenet would doubtless be taking all sorts of lessons, like you say, dancing, singing, etc. I find it no stretch of the imagination to think that piano lessons were among the others. Your being a RDI is okay by me, even though I am an IDI, I enjoy your posts.

[Ames]

Originally posted by bullmoose
Ames: One thing we all know about Jonbenet is that she was murdered, in an especially foul and cruel way. I didn't know that she was taking piano lessons, but you and I both know that if she wasn't, somebody is going to dispute the claim. Just because Patsy played the piece well doesn't mean Jonbenet did, she may have played it poorly, but so what? Why is there such an automatic disbelief for anything the Ramseys say? A child like Jonbenet would doubtless be taking all sorts of lessons, like you say, dancing, singing, etc. I find it no stretch of the imagination to think that piano lessons were among the others. Your being a RDI is okay by me, even though I am an IDI, I enjoy your posts.

I see what you are saying. Yes, I know that just because Patsy played it perfectly (she missed one note, though), that doesn't mean that JB did. I was just making an observation, as a former piano teacher, thats all. JB being a piano player has nothing to do with her murder, I know that. I was just making an observation, that the piece seemed a little difficult for a six year old....thats all, whether she played it perfectly or not. Unless she had been taking for at least a couple of years, and she may have, her teacher would have never given her that piece. Thats the reason that I was wondering how long she had taken piano lessons. Even as Patsy played...I found it odd that JB would have had been even remotely able to play that piece. I never, EVER said that I do not believe that JB didn't take piano lessons.....why would Patsy and John lie about THAT? What would they gain? I have NO doubt that JB took piano lessons, along with many, many extra activities. My doubt is that she ever played the piece that Patsy played. (IMO)

WOW...thanks for saying that you enjoy my posts. You swelled my head a bit...LOL I really enjoy yours too!!!

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


What "experts?" Link please.

Hi Nuisance - have you found a link yet for these "experts?"

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by bullmoose


Just because Patsy played the piece well doesn't mean Jonbenet did, she may have played it poorly, but so what? Why is there such an automatic disbelief for anything the Ramseys say?



Exactly - on both points.

[Athena]

Originally posted by LindaA


The last I heard she was not. She provided a video tape that showed his children and said that if the children were there, then he was there. I never heard anything different. (can you feel the RDIs' eyes rolling? LOL)

Correct and the tape was not dated.

[Athena]

Originally posted by Ames
Changing the subject here.....sorry guys....but, I am still wondering about that piece of music that Patsy played by memory. (JB's last piece that she learned). Another poster on another forum stated that JB's fingers would have been too small, to play those rolling chords. Being a former piano teacher...I have to agree. Does anyone know how long she took piano lessons?....I stated on another thread, that the piece that Patsy played, seemed too complicated for a six year old....unless, of course, she was a child prodigy. It was not a difficult piece...but, would have been for a six year old child, just starting out with her piano lessons. (I noticed the treble and bass octave changes).

Her fingers were too small? There are children who are exceptional at playing the piano even earlier than age 6.

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by Athena


Her fingers were too small? There are children who are exceptional at playing the piano even earlier than age 6.

Prodigy's yes. Exception not rule. I was performing in recitals by 6 and fairly impressively. However not the classicals.

[Ames]

Originally posted by Athena


Her fingers were too small? There are children who are exceptional at playing the piano even earlier than age 6.

No, thats what another poster said...on FFJ. I said, being a former piano teacher, that she would have had to have been taking lessons for at least two years for that piece. I was just wondering when she started, thats all. Yes, I am well aware of children taking lessons earlier than age 6...I have taught several of them. AND thats how I know that the piece would have been difficult for JB, UNLESS she had been taking for a couple of years....which she may have been...I don't know, thats why I was asking. IMO

[bullmoose]

For everybody who wondered whether or not Jonbenet had taken piano lessons, I thought I had read something about it in DOI; so I started rereading it last night, and right there on page 52, paragraph 4:She took violin and piano lessons. So unless a person thinks John[his quote] was lying for some dark evil reason, she probably was working on that piece that Patsy played,although probably not perfectly.

[Athena]

Originally posted by Ames


No, thats what another poster said...on FFJ. I said, being a former piano teacher, that she would have had to have been taking lessons for at least two years for that piece. I was just wondering when she started, thats all. Yes, I am well aware of children taking lessons earlier than age 6...I have taught several of them. AND thats how I know that the piece would have been difficult for JB, UNLESS she had been taking for a couple of years....which she may have been...I don't know, thats why I was asking. IMO

Oh Ames -- sorry if my post wasn't clear. :) I wasn't accusing you of saying JBR's hands were too small. I was just questioning the poster's comments. I had read that you taught piano lessons. I do agree that in order to master that piece she would have had to take lessons for quite a while but not if she just played it like a 6 year old in training as a couple of posters also eluded to. I did not recall anything about her playing like a concert pianist. LOL JMO

[nuisanceposter]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


Hi Nuisance - have you found a link yet for these "experts?"

I made a mistake. I had confused experts saying the fruit matter was pineapple with them saying the green matter was crab in the Case Encyclopedia wiki. Sorry about that.

Why are you asking? Are you disputing that the soft green fecal material found in her large intestine is the crab from the White's?

[Louisadelmar]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter


I made a mistake. I had confused experts saying the fruit matter was pineapple with them saying the green matter was crab in the Case Encyclopedia wiki. Sorry about that.

Why are you asking? Are you disputing that the soft green fecal material found in her large intestine is the crab from the White's?

BlueCrab has always claimed the green fecal matter was what she ate at the White's. But I never could find out on what (s)he based that belief. I've never read anything about how much JonBenet ate at the White's and wonder why a small amount of crab (or whatever) couldn't have been what was in her stomach if she chose playing over eating.

[edna mode]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Fox news coverage just had Craig Silverman on and he told it like it is.....if there is a conspiracy of Karr with the killer of JonBenet he might as well have said its not what IDIs would think. Craig Silverman is fired up hotter than hot. He is the Former DA who along with Bill Ritter consulted on the JonBenet matter. He said that DA Lacy bought into this intruder crud and this was her gift to the Ramseys. He told it like it is. Also he has a number one rated Talk show out here and he is fired up hot. He wants an explanation to what Homeland secruity even thinks its interest could be in a Boulder murder.... He also let everyone else have it with both barrels too. Keep your eye on Craig Silverman I can see it. He is one passionate dude. He is gonna rock the house.

Did I not say things are heating up in Boulder. He said there is not one bit of evidence that John Mark Karr remains under any suspicion and its all DA Lacey not wanting the accountibility for her fiasco so as long as she can claim interest she can keep accountibility from her doorstep. Now remember together Ritter and Silverman consulted on this matter.

I did think I'd wretch when Ramsey said he felt sorry for Karr. Now if you knew some sick sucker wanted to have sex with your little girl...How sorry could you feel? NOT!!

Craig Silverman consulted on the case? No he didn't. The only people he's "consulted" with are the tabloids who have paid him handsomely for many years.

He's a talking head whose paycheck depends on his contrary opinion.

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by edna mode


Craig Silverman consulted on the case? No he didn't. The only people he's "consulted" with are the tabloids who have paid him handsomely for many years.

He's a talking head whose paycheck depends on his contrary opinion.

Oh contrare. He did indeed consult with Alex Hunter the DA at the time. I know that as fact. He was the assistant DA in Denver at the time. He is now a talk show host with the number one talk radio show which was initiated due to the magnigude of his knowledge on the Ramsey case. As for your accusation regarding the tabloids. You need to know the facts before you make such accusation. I am going to be posting a link on Craig Silverman shortly.

[Coloradokares]

http://www.silvermanolivas.com/firm_craig.htm\

Here is your link Ednamode. Also since he is a practicing attorney not a tabloid hustler .....be careful what you say. I am merely trying to be helpful in that suggestion. Their are internet posters currently as defenders due to what they posted that is considered defamatory. He is in a unique postion if he had the mind to, to do the popular thing like John Ramseys friend from Atlanta and bring suite over something to do with the Ramsey murder. And like I say Fox News considers him to be an expert on the case. And he is fired up.

[Coloradokares]

Here I copied and pasted this bio from his lawfirms website just incase some didn't want to use the link. Pay note to the mention of the JonBenet Murder case being mentioned. It shows his picture at the website as well.....


Craig A. Silverman
Craig Silverman is a partner in the downtown Denver law firm of Silverman & Olivas, P.C. (303-595-0529). Craig and his firm specialize in personal injury law, employment litigation, dispute resolution, and the criminal defense of felony, misdemeanor, DUI, and municipal ordinance accusations. Craig is a fourth generation Denverite who is married to Trish Silverman and has two sons (Ben and Sam) and two dogs (Mikey and Matilda).

Craig Silverman served for sixteen years at the Denver District Attorney's Office where he was a Chief Deputy District Attorney. Craig brings tenacity, intelligence and public speaking skills to his work on behalf of a wide variety of clients. An amazing number of criminal clients have received dismissals or acquittals while represented by Craig. Civil litigants have collected large six figure resolutions of their civil claims both before and following jury trials.

Since 1997, Craig Silverman has served as the legal expert for the Denver ABC Affiliate KMGH TV Channel 7 and has long been a regular on Colorado Inside Out (KBDI Channel 12). Craig is currently a legal analyst for New Radio 850 KOA.

Craig has appeared hundreds of times on dozens of national television and radio shows including KUSA Channel Nine (regular analysis of O.J. Simpson litigation (1995-96). Frequent appearances on Rivera Live , COURT TV, FOX News, MSNBC, the Abrams Report, the O'Reilly Factor, the Crier Report, Hannity and Colmes, ABC World News, CNN, Paula Zahn , Debra Norville , Good Morning America, NBC Today Show, ABC Nightly News, NBC Nightly News, CBS Nightly News, ABC Nightline , Inside Edition , Extra , Celebrity Justice , KOA, KHOW, and NPR radio. Subjects include the death penalty, serial rapists, the JonBenet Ramsey case, Columbine, the Oklahoma City Bombing trials, and the ongoing Kobe Bryant litigation.

Craig was a first team all city basketball player at Denver 's George Washington High School . He went on to average over twenty points and eleven rebounds his senior year at Colorado College . Since the NBA had no interest, Craig went on to CU law school and the Denver DA's Office where he successfully prosecuted dozens of rapists who are serving thousands of years. Craig also prosecuted Denver 's only murder trial during the last forty years that resulted in a death penalty verdict ( People v. Frank Rodriguez ).

While Craig spends time with his media work, and his family, clients and their problems are always given priority (except for family emergencies). Craig is very competitive and brings his competitive instincts to play with respect to getting the best possible results for his clients in or out of court.

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by edna mode


Craig Silverman consulted on the case? No he didn't. The only people he's "consulted" with are the tabloids who have paid him handsomely for many years.

He's a talking head whose paycheck depends on his contrary opinion.

PM/PT - Page 510

Monday morning, June 1 - Boulder Police Department's presentation

"To the left was Hunter's group - Trip DeMuth, deputy DAs Pete Maguire, Bill Nagel, John Pickering, and Mary Keenan - and beside them, Tom Haney, Michael Kane, Lou Smith, and Dan Schuler, and
John Dailey and Terry Gillespie from the Colorado attorney general's office."

Guess they inadvertently left out Craig's name.

JMO

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


PM/PT - Page 510

Monday morning, June 1 - Boulder Police Department's presentation

"To the left was Hunter's group - Trip DeMuth, deputy DAs Pete Maguire, Bill Nagel, John Pickering, and Mary Keenan - and beside them, Tom Haney, Michael Kane, Lou Smith, and Dan Schuler, and
John Dailey and Terry Gillespie from the Colorado attorney general's office."

Guess they inadvertently left out Craig's name.

JMO

You and I just went through this a few days ago. I posted it and made the error of naming him as part of Steve Thomas' team when I meat to say Alex Hunter .....is it all starting to ring the bell for you yet. Look up the post or do a search. I'll post a link ( which I did then ) so many times then I figure if it comes back around you didn't do the link when I provided it the first time. Athena I am sures remembers this as Athena called me on my saying Steve Thomas vs Alex Hunter. Silverman and Ritter consulted on this matter with Alex Hunter. Now moving on.

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


You and I just went through this a few days ago. I posted it and made the error of naming him as part of Steve Thomas' team when I meat to say Alex Hunter .....is it all starting to ring the bell for you yet. Look up the post or do a search. I'll post a link ( which I did then ) so many times then I figure if it comes back around you didn't do the link when I provided it the first time. Athena I am sures remembers this as Athena called me on my saying Steve Thomas vs Alex Hunter. Silverman and Ritter consulted on this matter with Alex Hunter. Now moving on.

The only thing I've seen you post was supposed to be him on FOX News to discuss what was said on 48 Hours and whatever came up when the link was opened had nothing to do with Craig Silverman........and then you came back and said you would try to get the transcripts and post later. Other than that I haven't seen anything.

[Athena]

Originally posted by Coloradokares
http://www.silvermanolivas.com/firm_craig.htm\

Here is your link Ednamode. Also since he is a practicing attorney not a tabloid hustler .....be careful what you say. I am merely trying to be helpful in that suggestion. Their are internet posters currently as defenders due to what they posted that is considered defamatory. He is in a unique postion if he had the mind to, to do the popular thing like John Ramseys friend from Atlanta and bring suite over something to do with the Ramsey murder. And like I say Fox News considers him to be an expert on the case. And he is fired up.

None of the links you post work

Not Found
The requested URL http://www.silvermanolivas.com/firm_craig.htm\
was not found on this server.

:rolleyes:

[Athena]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


The only thing I've seen you post was supposed to be him on FOX News to discuss what was said on 48 Hours and whatever came up when the link was opened had nothing to do with Craig Silverman........and then you came back and said you would try to get the transcripts and post later. Other than that I haven't seen anything.

Don't hold your breath. :D

[Athena]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Oh contrare. He did indeed consult with Alex Hunter the DA at the time. I know that as fact. He was the assistant DA in Denver at the time. He is now a talk show host with the number one talk radio show which was initiated due to the magnigude of his knowledge on the Ramsey case. As for your accusation regarding the tabloids. You need to know the facts before you make such accusation. I am going to be posting a link on Craig Silverman shortly.

You cannot state something as "fact" without supporting documentaton and a link.

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by Athena


None of the links you post work

Not Found
The requested URL http://www.silvermanolivas.com/firm_craig.htm\
was not found on this server.

:rolleyes:

http://www.silvermanolivas.com/firm_craig.htm

here it is again and I see no discrepancy and I got it by copy and pasting from the http: line.

I will do something to prove this to you then I'll roll my eyes. If I get kicked off the forum well that would suite me at this point; if the research queen can't understand sometimes that something happens I am not sure what and links post and don't work
roll eyes then heavens to Betsy ya know. I can't send the link by e mail to you so I guess I'll see if I can copy and paste the header and picture along with the text. Not sure that will work.

[Coloradokares]

Nope apparently its not going to allow me to paste the header and the picture .....I can't e mail it by clicking on file send link to. Copy and paste is as good as it gets. I don't know what to tell you how about I send you the something that might help like a search that brings up the website info. Maybe that will help or something. you know I do send links. If something between my computer and this forum isn't working to copy a link and paste it what more can I possibly do. Just so you know I do resent the implication and will complain to the forum moderators about this problem.




Craig A. Silverman
Craig Silverman is a partner in the downtown Denver law firm of Silverman & Olivas, P.C. (303-595-0529). Craig and his firm specialize in personal injury law, employment litigation, dispute resolution, and the criminal defense of felony, misdemeanor, DUI, and municipal ordinance accusations. Craig is a fourth generation Denverite who is married to Trish Silverman and has two sons (Ben and Sam) and two dogs (Mikey and Matilda).

Craig Silverman served for sixteen years at the Denver District Attorney's Office where he was a Chief Deputy District Attorney. Craig brings tenacity, intelligence and public speaking skills to his work on behalf of a wide variety of clients. An amazing number of criminal clients have received dismissals or acquittals while represented by Craig. Civil litigants have collected large six figure resolutions of their civil claims both before and following jury trials.

Since 1997, Craig Silverman has served as the legal expert for the Denver ABC Affiliate KMGH TV Channel 7 and has long been a regular on Colorado Inside Out (KBDI Channel 12). Craig is currently a legal analyst for New Radio 850 KOA.

Craig has appeared hundreds of times on dozens of national television and radio shows including KUSA Channel Nine (regular analysis of O.J. Simpson litigation (1995-96). Frequent appearances on Rivera Live , COURT TV, FOX News, MSNBC, the Abrams Report, the O'Reilly Factor, the Crier Report, Hannity and Colmes, ABC World News, CNN, Paula Zahn , Debra Norville , Good Morning America, NBC Today Show, ABC Nightly News, NBC Nightly News, CBS Nightly News, ABC Nightline , Inside Edition , Extra , Celebrity Justice , KOA, KHOW, and NPR radio. Subjects include the death penalty, serial rapists, the JonBenet Ramsey case, Columbine, the Oklahoma City Bombing trials, and the ongoing Kobe Bryant litigation.

Craig was a first team all city basketball player at Denver 's George Washington High School . He went on to average over twenty points and eleven rebounds his senior year at Colorado College . Since the NBA had no interest, Craig went on to CU law school and the Denver DA's Office where he successfully prosecuted dozens of rapists who are serving thousands of years. Craig also prosecuted Denver 's only murder trial during the last forty years that resulted in a death penalty verdict ( People v. Frank Rodriguez ).

While Craig spends time with his media work, and his family, clients and their problems are always given priority (except for family emergencies). Craig is very competitive and brings his competitive instincts to play with respect to getting the best possible results for his clients in or out of court.

<< prev: firm overview next: David Olivas >>

[Coloradokares]

This is what it allowed me to copy and paste from the MSN Search results page. This forum apparently does not allow html postings and that I cannot control. Please if this does not work for you call the number or maybe do a google.....This is Silverman and Olivas website to Craig A. SIlverman's law firm. The reason I chose this so you could see he was still practicing ....and not just some tabloid trash junkie needing to rely on the tabs for his daily bread ya know. To show who he was and his credentials etc. I thought this would be the easiest way to show it. This is my last effor to post this for you. Its working and I have the website down on my task bar as we speak. Past that its the forum or your own server.


Silverman & Olivas, P.C.
Craig A. Silverman. Craig Silverman is a partner in the downtown Denver law firm of Silverman & Olivas, P.C. (303-595-0529). Craig and his firm specialize in personal injury law, employment litigation ...

www.silvermanolivas.com/firm_craig.htm · Cached page

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by LadyFisher
We can be certain of one thing....Lou Smit solved a heck of a lot more cases than Steve Thomas! You have to consider this man seriously, he knows his stuff.....I also take seriously John Douglas' thoughts on this case...you just can't rule out their opinions that easily if you are trying to be openminded! jmho

Well I should hope so look how long Smit was an officer vs Thomas. Look at the age difference. I mean really. You take Douglas seriously.....there's your sign.

[Coloradokares]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Athena
[B]



I have posted a lot of links..... Athena here lately you are showing such rancor and bias and act like if you didn't post it or one of your fellow IDI's its worthless. I am sorry but we had the discussion that I was tired and used Steve Thomas's name vs DA Alex Hunters when I posted that info on the Denver DA's consulting regarding the Ramsey murder by Ritter and Silverman..... and that is common knowledge. I think its about time to give up....selective memory is all I can say.....I remember once when I had not been on the forum long you said you'd post something about twice maybe 3 times and past that they would have to look it up themself. Sounds about right to me. By the way I am seeking out the moderators on this list to see why when I post a link it seems to break . At least I am trying to see if I can correct the problem. I copy I paste I try the link from the page and up it comes. Of course that might be because I had the site up and its pulling it from history.....not sure.. why it works for me and not you is something I just cannot answer.

[Athena]

CK: Doesn't matter, I found it. Silverman was not a consultant to Hunter nor was he consulted. He was actually a very outspoken critic of Hunter. He resigned from his Denver Deputy DA position in 1996 to run against Ritter and lost also.

Quite a few articles I found but just posting the latest one:

'Someone tortured and killed JonBenet Ramsey and has not been brought to justice,'' said Craig Silverman, a former Denver prosecutor and frequent critic of the controversial case.

Adams County District Attorney Bob Grant, a consultant on the case who has also loaned Hunter the services of prosecutor Bruce Levin, says he is not alarmed by the pace of the investigation.

http://www.longmontfyi.com/ramsey/storyDetail99.asp?ID=38

Ritter pledged to begin seeking death in some cases after Chief Deputy DA Craig Silverman, quit over the issue in 1996 and ran against him.

http://www.boulderweekly.com/archive/122001/newsspin.html

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by Athena
CK: Doesn't matter, I found it. Silverman was not a consultant to Hunter nor was he consulted. He was actually a very outspoken critic of Hunter. He resigned from his Denver Deputy DA position in 1996 to run against Ritter and lost also.

Quite a few articles I found but just posting the latest one:

'Someone tortured and killed JonBenet Ramsey and has not been brought to justice,'' said Craig Silverman, a former Denver prosecutor and frequent critic of the controversial case.

Adams County District Attorney Bob Grant, a consultant on the case who has also loaned Hunter the services of prosecutor Bruce Levin, says he is not alarmed by the pace of the investigation.

http://www.longmontfyi.com/ramsey/storyDetail99.asp?ID=38

Ritter pledged to begin seeking death in some cases after Chief Deputy DA Craig Silverman, quit over the issue in 1996 and ran against him.

http://www.boulderweekly.com/archive/122001/newsspin.html


Here is a copy and paste of the post where you said it was the reference to Thomas than confused you ..... in a few posts before this one I had a link Athena to the jonbenet documents. Its a quarter past one in the morning here. I don't know about you but staying up all night long is not an option for me. I will look more tomorrow to find the link this post refers to. That will clear up this whole matter. Anyway see your post ....where my saying Thomas instead of Hunter was confusing to you. We find the link it says Ritter and Silverman consulted. That is we will find it in the documents in that link If I am not delusional..... and thats always a possibility. Is there an easy way of locating archieved posts. I had to do a lot of searching to find this. You wouldn't believe it......





Opps I just see what I said wrong. I had Thomas on the brain and his ref to Ritter in his book. Not Thomas team...Hunter team of advisors. I apologize. That had to be confusing. I am tired I guess. Anyway Ritter has a track record of utilizing Grand Juries and being amenable to Office of Special Prosecutors as investigative tools. As Governor its a case he is personally familiar with and wants to see resolved. I think he might appoint the Office of special prosecutor. That is all I have asked. Lets lay it out and get the hard questions asked and proved by experts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



OK -- now it makes sense. The Thomas connection was what confused me. LOL

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by Coloradokares
http://www.silvermanolivas.com/firm_craig.htm\

Here is your link Ednamode. Also since he is a practicing attorney not a tabloid hustler .....be careful what you say. I am merely trying to be helpful in that suggestion. Their are internet posters currently as defenders due to what they posted that is considered defamatory. He is in a unique postion if he had the mind to, to do the popular thing like John Ramseys friend from Atlanta and bring suite over something to do with the Ramsey murder. And like I say Fox News considers him to be an expert on the case. And he is fired up.

"Be careful what you say?"

You know, CK, IMO this smacks of a veiled threat. You think Craig is reading our posts and getting ready to sue us?

[Athena]

Originally posted by Coloradokares
<snip>


Here is a copy and paste of the post where you said it was the reference to Thomas than confused you ..... in a few posts before this one I had a link Athena to the jonbenet documents.

What does this have to do with the links to Craig Silverman? (shaking head)

Don't even bother -- I am putting you on ignore - then I can't read your posts and you will have no reason to respond or read mine.

[andU]

Originally posted by Coloradokares
...............
Craig has appeared hundreds of times on dozens of national television and radio shows including KUSA Channel Nine (regular analysis of O.J. Simpson litigation (1995-96). Frequent appearances on Rivera Live , COURT TV, FOX News, MSNBC, the Abrams Report, the O'Reilly Factor, the Crier Report, Hannity and Colmes, ABC World News, CNN, Paula Zahn , Debra Norville , Good Morning America, NBC Today Show, ABC Nightly News, NBC Nightly News, CBS Nightly News, ABC Nightline , Inside Edition , Extra , Celebrity Justice , KOA, KHOW, and NPR radio. Subjects include the death penalty, serial rapists, the JonBenet Ramsey case, Columbine, the Oklahoma City Bombing trials, and the ongoing Kobe Bryant litigation.

...............[/B]

Your post regarding Silverman's bio states that he offered analysis on the Ramsey case, not that he worked on it or was assigned to it. We have all offered analysis on this case. I'm not really impressed with him.

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


"Be careful what you say?"

You know, CK, IMO this smacks of a veiled threat. You think Craig is reading our posts and getting ready to sue us?

It was not meant as a threat at all but a suggestion, actually a helpful suggestion or reminder to us all, since we have to all of us be cautious since being informed about Westmorelands decision to sue a forum poster for libel defamation and all that...... I think there are two ways to say anything and mean the same. I was told by my cousin ( A high power attorney here in denver ) that adding In my opinion etc does not protect one from being accoutable for stating their opinion when that opinion is a defamatory one. It seems the climate is getting ripe is all for these kind of actions to take place in response to what internet forum posters are saying about any given individual etc. Now how would I have privy or knowledge to what Criag Silverman reads or does not read..... like I am important enough to know something like that....:biggrin:

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by Freshwater
There is no need for anyone to be careful about what he/she says as long as Opinions are expressed as Opinions only and statements presented as facts are backed up with a credible source. See opening forum for clarification of credicble sources etc...

Let's all BE CAREFUL to remain respectful of those who express opinions that differ from our own. Civility is not a suggestion at CL it is a requirement.

I feel quite comfortable following the guidelines and occasional reminders posted by the moderators and administrators of CourtTV.

JMO

[LadyFisher]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Well I should hope so look how long Smit was an officer vs Thomas. Look at the age difference. I mean really. You take Douglas seriously.....there's your sign. You can bet your booties that I take John Douglas' opinions on this case seriously! I would take his opinion over Thomas' or the radio talk show host anyday. Yes, I do agree about Lou Smit's age and experience, it sure the heck beats Thomas' doesn't it! :rolleyes: mho

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by andU


Your post regarding Silverman's bio states that he offered analysis on the Ramsey case, not that he worked on it or was assigned to it. We have all offered analysis on this case. I'm not really impressed with him.

There is a link called the jonbenet documents. I posted it. along with information regarding our govenor elect Ritter. That document if I am not mistaken and I am remembering correctly that says Ritter and Silverman consulted with DA Alex Hunter regarding this matter. I have to find the link back and I am going through archieved posts as my time allows to find that post back. To what extent that consultation was I am not exactly sure but the document link I provided indicated that Ritter and if I am remembering correctly Silverman were intrumental in convincing Alex Hunter to opt for the Grand Jury.

Also as time allows I will be doing research to find out what exatly all Silvermans role has been in the case. Fox news stated the other night as they interviewed him following the 48 hour report as former Deputy DA Denver who has consulted on the JonBenet Ramsey case and is considered an expert...etc etc etc..... You don't have to be impressed with him. But provide to me what your knowledge is of him if you would .... links etc that lead you to your conclusion that you fail to be impressed I for one think it would be reasonable to ask why your not impressed. If he is really that low a life I'd like to know it . I keep hearing how no one is impressed hes a tabloid hungry sell out who sells info to the tabloids for his daily bread. Yet that is not the Craig Silverman we all know out here in Colorado. He is an attorney was a DA....prosecuted to the death penalty Frank Rodriquez I think was his name. Has a talk show . Also its one thing to say you have provided analysis on a case. Its a bit more impressive to know you have done it on Fox TV news and the above list of noteable credible sources. A bit more impressive that just posting your opinion to a public forum :shrug:

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by LadyFisher
You can bet your booties that I take John Douglas' opinions on this case seriously! I would take his opinion over Thomas' or the radio talk show host anyday. Yes, I do agree about Lou Smit's age and experience, it sure the heck beats Thomas' doesn't it! :rolleyes: mho

Not in my opinion no but I do respect your right to a different one than I have. I apologize for the offhand way I said theres your sign. I was feeling very beat up on . That relfected in my response and I am sorry I allowed myself to respond in any inappropriate manner. Thomas was in my opinion a real dedicated officer who granted was young and not as experienced as Smit. But who worked with a level of dedication that was only in my opinion stellar. Irregardless of who if anyone ever is found to be guilty of this crime I will feel that Thomas did his best with where he felt the evidence led him.

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


<snip>

But provide to me what your knowledge is of him if you would .... links etc that lead you to your conclusion that you fail to be impressed I for one think it would be reasonable to ask why your not impressed.

<snip>




I realize this post was not directed to me, but I'll offer my answer.

I don't think I can provide you a link to the portion of my brain where thoughts and ideas - some of which are referred to as "common sense" - are generated.

Now I think I'm going to follow Athena's lead......

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


I realize this post was not directed to me, but I'll offer my answer.

I don't think I can provide you a link to the portion of my brain where thoughts and ideas - some of which are referred to as "common sense" - are generated.

Now I think I'm going to follow Athena's lead......

Please feel free to do so that is your option . Better would have been to followed freshwaters suggestion regarding difference of opinion and respect......but do as you choose.

[LadyFisher]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Not in my opinion no but I do respect your right to a different one than I have. I apologize for the offhand way I said theres your sign. I was feeling very beat up on . That relfected in my response and I am sorry I allowed myself to respond in any inappropriate manner. Thomas was in my opinion a real dedicated officer who granted was young and not as experienced as Smit. But who worked with a level of dedication that was only in my opinion stellar. Irregardless of who if anyone ever is found to be guilty of this crime I will feel that Thomas did his best with where he felt the evidence led him. Even John Douglas didn't ridicule Thomas....he stated in regard to ST whose interpretation he disagrees radically that he believes him to be of solid integrity! Imo Steve Thomas was a very young homicide detective with little experience. I wish he would have listened a little to those who were more experienced in this field...Was he let go from the BPD or did he resign? Was he the detective that was believed to be leaking information, much of it false to the media? I am asking, not accusing, but if he was imho it isn't a sign of a professional who is truly interested in justice for the murder victim! This is just my opinion of whichever perp leaked a lot of lies and false rumors to the press! imho As you can see, I am not as diplomatic about my opinon of the original detectives on this case as Douglas was! imho

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by LadyFisher
Even John Douglas didn't ridicule Thomas....he stated in regard to ST whose interpretation he disagrees radically that he believes him to be of solid integrity! Imo Steve Thomas was a very young homicide detective with little experience. I wish he would have listened a little to those who were more experienced in this field...Was he let go from the BPD or did he resign? Was he the detective that was believed to be leaking information, much of it false to the media? I am asking, not accusing, but if he was imho it isn't a sign of a professional who is truly interested in justice for the murder victim! This is just my opinion of whichever perp leaked a lot of lies and false rumors to the press! imho As you can see, I am not as diplomatic about my opinon of the original detectives on this case as Douglas was! imho

Thank you Lady Fisher. He resigned when he came to realize that this case was never going to be prosecuted by the DA Alex Hunter. He did have talks for that matter with Shapiro and when Shapiro leaked things to his tabloid the Globe in direct contradiction to the facts Thomas had alluded to....he discontinued immediately any ties to Shapiro. However much was made about Hunters office being open to Shaprio. That to me was horrendous.

http://crimemagazine.com/jonbenetdocs.htm

This a compilation of many documents regarding the JonBenet murder investiation including the letters of resignation of Thomas and further down information regarding the leaks out of the DA's office I believe. If you'd like to hear Thomas's side. Plus it has Whites letters and lots of documents on this link.

I thought honestly that Silverman had consulted with Alex Hunter but I am not finding that back. Maybe it was an earlier link I'd sent in. So if we could table that. I simply cannot find that back for now. Rather than continue to promote something I cannot prove I'd rather ask this forum to discount it till I can prove it. However, Shaprio himself if you read PMPT and Thomas's books makes much of the open door he had to Alex Hunters office. I cannot lie Thomas I fear did speak with Shapiro on a few occasions. Its like its standard procedure for reporters to interview the working officers on the case. And it is wrong. No excuses. In thomas's case I think he was extremely naieve.

Shapiro had Thomas convinced that he was dedicated to finding the murderer of Jon Benet and was as passionate as Thomas himself. Thomas maintains he never provided any false information at all. He has never denied his contact with Shaprio. However Hoffman or was it Huffman not to mention Demuth I think it was leaking to the opposition attorneys also Dont quote me on DeMuth or Huffman till I get my link found back. I had some comptuer problem with Bios the other day. I am missing some of my saved favorites. I am no computer whiz. Sorry redfaced in Colorado. Seems there was plenty of leaks to go around. One would have thought the BPD and the DA office was a sieve. JMHO I am not proud of how our professional and elected branchs of law handled this murder over all.

I will need to reread the Douglas book. I admit I was not impressed the first reading. However perhaps at this time
I am prepared to read with less bias and more open mind.
Once again it is refreshing to not have Thomas drawed and quartered. He did possess alot of integrity in my humble opinion. he is a carpenter now. Lou Smit works as an investigator for Ramsey from my understanding if anyone can prove that wrong I'd like to see it as that is one thing that soured me on Smit.

[Athena]

Originally posted by LadyFisher
Even John Douglas didn't ridicule Thomas....he stated in regard to ST whose interpretation he disagrees radically that he believes him to be of solid integrity! Imo Steve Thomas was a very young homicide detective with little experience. I wish he would have listened a little to those who were more experienced in this field...Was he let go from the BPD or did he resign? Was he the detective that was believed to be leaking information, much of it false to the media? I am asking, not accusing, but if he was imho it isn't a sign of a professional who is truly interested in justice for the murder victim! This is just my opinion of whichever perp leaked a lot of lies and false rumors to the press! imho As you can see, I am not as diplomatic about my opinon of the original detectives on this case as Douglas was! imho

Thomas was the one who leaked info to the media and in addition to that he allowed Mason to take the fall for it. Mason was investigated by internal affairs. Eller didn't like the fact that the was FBI trained and knew more than he did about how to investigate a murder. What I also found interesting in Beckner's depo is that Thomas was NEVER considered the lead detective on the Ramsey case. I've posted some of Beckner's depo re: the lead detective and the leaks. It appears to me if had been discovered earlier, Thomas would have been fired rather than resigned:

25 Q You were managing the detectives?
1 A Correct.
2 Q And coordinating the investigation?
3 A Correct.
4 Q Trujillo remained the lead detective?
5 A Correct.
6 Q Did Steve Thomas ever have the role of
7 lead detective in the Ramsey investigation?
8 A Not under my command, no.
9 Q Do you know whether prior to your taking
10 on the case in October of '97 Mr. Thomas ever had
11 been given the role of lead detective?
12 A I have been told no.
3 Q Was it then and does it remain the policy
4 of the Boulder Police Department to appropriately
5 investigate any officer who is thought to have leaked
6 confidential police file information to the media
7 and, if found to have done so, to institute some form
8 of punishment or penalty?
9 A Are you saying is it now the policy?
10 Q Was it then and is it now?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Am I correct that if the Boulder Police
13 Department had learned, say, in September of 1997
14 that one of the officers on the Ramsey case had
15 provided confidential police file information about
16 the case to a journalist, that at a minimum, if
17 proven to be true or admitted to by the individual
18 officer, you would have expected at a minimum that
19 the officer would have been immediately removed from
20 that particular case?
21 A If it was proven?
22 Q Yes.
23 A Yes.
24 Q With the potential to even be discharged
25 from employment?
1 A Potentially.
2 Q Has it ever been brought to your attention
3 that Steve Thomas has admitted that he in fact met
4 with Ann Bardach on four or five occasions and was
5 her police source for the Vanity Fair article that
6 was published in this case, including an admission
7 that he provided her with the content of the ransom
8 note, although he says he did not give a copy of it
9 to her? If I tell you that as fact, would that be
10 news to you?
11 A Some of it. I didn't know it was four to
12 five times. That would be new to me.
13 Q Did he discuss the contents of the ransom
14 note with her?
15 A You know, I don't recall hearing that
16 specifically, that specific.
17 Q But if Steve Thomas had admitted to that
18 information in September of 1997, he would have,
19 having admitted to it, would have either -- he would
20 have clearly been removed from the Ramsey case and
21 may very well have been fired?
22 A May have been, yes.
23 Q But clearly without a doubt removed from
24 the Ramsey case?
25 A You're asking me to answer for Chief Koby.
1 At this time I was not chief of police.
2 Q Well, under your understanding of the
3 setup as it existed then?
4 A I believe that would have happened, yes.
5 Q Because I think after Mason everybody
6 understood that they were subject to internal affairs
7 and potentially dismissal but absolutely removal from
8 the case?
9 A I believe that would have happened, yes.
10 Q There -- former Detective Thomas, and I
11 ask this because he is identified by Darnay Hoffman
12 as the Boulder police detective who will be the
13 primary witness on this case from the authorities
14 standpoint in the Wolf case, Detective Thomas said
15 that he had a working briefcase at the time that he
16 resigned in which he kept his working file papers
17 that included his own reports and notes and then
18 other reports and notes. I don't know if it included
19 the master affidavit he refers to.
20 And he said he turned that briefcase in.
21 But he said he made copies of the materials. That
22 would have been absolutely against department policy
23 for him to keep copies of the materials, wouldn't it?
24 A Not necessarily. Many officers will keep
25 second copies of reports as working copies –
1 Q In the event –
2 A -- and then put the original in the file
3 and then work off of their working copies and
4 maintain those.
5 Q But would that be true if they're leaving
6 the force?
7 A No, that should not occur if you're
8 leaving and taking those with you.
9 Q That's my point. When he resigned and he
10 turned in his working papers and before he did it he
11 said he made copies and kept them, that would be
12 inappropriate then under the department guidelines?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And he would know that, your officers know
15 that, don't they?
16 A Yes.
17 Q He then said that starting in January of
18 1999 after it was learned that he was going to
19 publish a book, that he started receiving anonymous
20 packets of police reports on the JonBent Ramsey case
21 from postmarks in Boulder and postmarks in Denver.
22 And that over the course of time, he accumulated
23 several hundred pages of Ramsey police reports from
24 these anonymous sources. Have you ever heard
25 anything about that before?
1 A No. This is the first I've heard of that.
2 MR. MILLER: Is this from his deposition?
3 MR. WOOD: It is, it is.

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/11262001Depo-MarkBeckner.htm

[Athena]

Originally posted by sweetcharlotte


I feel quite comfortable following the guidelines and occasional reminders posted by the moderators and administrators of CourtTV.

JMO

I agree. My biggest issue on this board with just a couple of is lack of credible links when statements are made as facts without supporting documentation as per the rules:

Links to credible sources ONLY (credible operationalized as - a source where the content creator is held to an ethical standard and accountability for accuracy of content.)

Statements of fact must be associated with a link (unless the fact is common case knowledge)

Statements of Opinion must be identified as such

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?threadid=274546

[Ames]

Originally posted by bullmoose
For everybody who wondered whether or not Jonbenet had taken piano lessons, I thought I had read something about it in DOI; so I started rereading it last night, and right there on page 52, paragraph 4:She took violin and piano lessons. So unless a person thinks John[his quote] was lying for some dark evil reason, she probably was working on that piece that Patsy played,although probably not perfectly.

Geez....I am not calling anyone a liar. Does the book say how LONG she took piano lessons. When did she start? When she was two? Three? Four? Five? When? Thats all I want to know.

[bullmoose]

To Ames: I was in no way bothered by your post about Jonbenet's piano lessons, I just happened to read the reference in DOI that night; it doesn't say how long she took the lessons, just that she was taking them.

[Ames]

Originally posted by bullmoose
To Ames: I was in no way bothered by your post about Jonbenet's piano lessons, I just happened to read the reference in DOI that night; it doesn't say how long she took the lessons, just that she was taking them.

Sorry about that bullmoose....I thought that I had offended you somehow. Glad to know that I didn't! Yep, I already knew that she had been taking piano lessons...I had heard that about a week or two before the 48 Hours Special aired, I just wondered if anyone knew how long she had been taking. Thanks though, for confirming that she actually was taking them, though.

[bullmoose]

CK: What kind of relationship do you have with Steve Thomas? Why do you defend him so blindly? IMO, his behavior with Shapiro, a reporter for the Globe, was shameful. He cannot take back his lack of professionalism by trying to minimize his close working relationship with the tabloid that published Jonbenet's autopsy photos. It may be standard procedure for reporters to talk to investigating officers, but I do not believe that it is SOP for the officer to be leaking inside info like a sieve to a tabloid. Since when did the Globe become a bastion of truth? IMO a tabloid is not a newspaper. A newspaper reports the news, a tabloid reports malicious rumors and fabricates what it passes off as news, IMO. The Twister would have been fired in shame for what he was doing if it had been exposed. IMO, the only reason he cut off from Shapiro was his fear of being exposed for what he was doing. As Athena's print-out of Beckner's deposition shows, he wouldn't have had to resign if the extant of his leaking had been known. The BPD would, in theory, have gone after him like they went after Mason, who was not a Tabloid Whisperer. Maybe thats what I should call him. So many nicknames, so little time.:biggrin: