Discussion Thread .... Week of 10/1

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


(snipped)

MY opinion is, they actually believe it just because Beth says it!!

(snipped)

JMO

I believe there is a very thin line between those that obssessively hate Beth, and those that obssessively adore her. True those that adore her don't need to see any evidence at all and will stand behind and believe her no matter what. Then there are the people that obssessively dispise her, that will go against her no matter what kind of evidence is presented.


jmo

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by SukiJane


Why would anybody be screaming for proof of kidnapping, rape and murder, when he hasn't been charged with these crimes. What Beth believes happened to her daughter has absolutely nothing to do with this investigation.

We are screaming for proof that Joran hasn't lied, yet again.

jmo

I trust you have no problem at all with BETH saying her daughter was kidnapped, raped, and probably murdered?? She travels around the Country telling people this. No one has been charged with a crime, in this case, because the Prosecutor says there is no evidence!!

Do you think Beth should have proof of what she says .... OR is she "allowed" to say it .... collect money while saying it .... just because she is the "victim's mother"??

JMO

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


I trust you have no problem at all with BETH saying her daughter was kidnapped, raped, and probably murdered?? She travels around the Country telling people this. No one has been charged with a crime, in this case, because the Prosecutor says there is no evidence!!

Do you think Beth should have proof of what she says .... OR is she "allowed" to say it .... collect money while saying it .... just because she is the "victim's mother"??

JMO

Live and let live! What Beth is doing is absolutely none of my business, and I don't really care to make it my business. If what she is doing is wrong, then I think somewhere along the lines someone will put a stop to it. Until then, she has a right to live, and do whatever she wants.

You're right, no evidence of a crime. Is it because there was no crime, or is it because there wasn't a proper investigation. None of us really know, do we?

jmo

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by SukiJane


I believe there is a very thin line between those that obssessively hate Beth, and those that obssessively adore her. True those that adore her don't need to see any evidence at all and will stand behind and believe her no matter what. Then there are the people that obssessively dispise her, that will go against her no matter what kind of evidence is presented.


jmo

Suki .... I know you feel there are those who adore and those who hate/despise her. To you .... there IS nothing in between. Think about what you're saying. I would bet, out of all the posters, on all the boards, there are very few who actually KNOW Beth. How can you either adore, or hate someone you don't even know??

You just don't think it's fair/ethical/right to question anything Beth says or does. It has nothing to do with adoring or hating. I WILL agree with you .... Beth seems to have her ardent followers, who question nothing!! THOSE are the people who have a problem in this case, in particular. How can one NOT have questions in this case??

JMO

[treetime]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


IIRC, I read somewhere that one of the only things the three liars actually agreed on was that they went to the lighthouse at some point that night.

Then Joran changed his story. Again. and again. and again.

IMO.

(I don't think Joran left her at the beach either.)


he did not leave her at the beach

LOAD ALERT

LOAD ALERT

no one saw him there, no sneakers were recovered there

LOAD of the century :cool:

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by SukiJane


Live and let live! What Beth is doing is absolutely none of my business, and I don't really care to make it my business. If what she is doing is wrong, then I think somewhere along the lines someone will put a stop to it. Until then, she has a right to live, and do whatever she wants.

You're right, no evidence of a crime. Is it because there was no crime, or is it because there wasn't a proper investigation. None of us really know, do we?

jmo

I guess I just have an inherent problem with people traveling the country, collecting fees and donations, telling a "story" which has absolutely no basis in FACT. It's like collecting money "under false pretences". Not that it affects me one way or the other .... I just think it's wrong. It's quite a lucrative venture though, isn't it?? I think her Foundation, and particular her .... should be stopped dead in it's/her tracks.

JMO

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Suki .... I know you feel there are those who adore and those who hate/despise her. To you .... there IS nothing in between. Think about what you're saying. I would bet, out of all the posters, on all the boards, there are very few who actually KNOW Beth. How can you either adore, or hate someone you don't even know??

You just don't think it's fair/ethical/right to question anything Beth says or does. It has nothing to do with adoring or hating. I WILL agree with you .... Beth seems to have her ardent followers, who question nothing!! THOSE are the people who have a problem in this case, in particular. How can one NOT have questions in this case??

JMO

You misunderstood my post. I believe there are those in between. My point was there are some that go from one extreme and there are some that go to the other extreme, and in my opinion there is a very thin line between the two.

You got me how one can adore or hate without knowing her, but I think we've all seen examples of the two.

You can't be objective and claim that only one side has a problem in this case.

Was it yesterday there was discussion of whether Beth ate or slept the first week. I thought that was a ridiculous discussion, and there was no proof either way, why bring it up and why discuss it as a lie if one has no proof it's a lie. To me, that just has hate written all over it. Of all the things that have been brought forward in this case as a lie from Beth, this would be the one that I would actually believe. There are people that will not eat, and can't sleep when traumatized.

jmo

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


I guess I just have an inherent problem with people traveling the country, collecting fees and donations, telling a "story" which has absolutely no basis in FACT. It's like collecting money "under false pretences". Not that it affects me one way or the other .... I just think it's wrong. It's quite a lucrative venture though, isn't it?? I think her Foundation, and particular her .... should be stopped dead in it's/her tracks.

JMO

Now if Beth was swindling social security checks from the elderly, then I might have a problem with what she's doing. Until then, I don't really care what she does. I wish her well, just as I would wish anyone that has lost a child.

Who knows, maybe your wish will come true and Beth will be stopped in her tracks one day. There are lots of people that do wrong and there are many many people in this world that I would like to see stopped in their tracks, mostly those that want to do physical harm to others. (by this statement I am not referring to Joran)

jmo

jmo

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic



Okay, put your credibility where your mouth is and show me something, anything to substanitate that Joran LEFT HER AT THE BEACH. And forget about "Joran told us", that is NOT proof of anything. IF you can't back up YOUR claims, then you are only MOOing also.

Get over yourselves already. Your condesending, rude posts are becoming a real bore, that is why you are mostly talking to yourselves.


I am not the one sitting around accusing him of crimes so I don't have to prove anything. And no one holds a condescending candle to you and your buddies. :rolleyes:

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Slick .... This all just doesn't matter, because Beth is the "victim's mother". How DARE we malign this woman. I really think posters who POST things like this, fancy themselves as being on some "moral high ground". You are absolutely correct when you talk about her "stories changing". Apparently we're supposed to EXCUSE that, simply BECAUSE she is the "victim's mother". Her actions ((like calling for a boycott)) are appropriate, because she is the "victim's mother".

Well .... I don't "accept" what Beth does and says, because she is the "victim's mother". In fact, I QUESTION her actions.

JMO


Mark Lunsford was the father of a victim but he was crucified in the media and right on this board because he didn't fit what people thought he should look like. His parents were also crucified and we all know they were innocent.

So this garbage whining about Beth being a victim's mother and not to be bashed is just an excuse. It is reserved for certain parents only.

[treetime]

BETH ROCKS


ALE ..............doesnt




:D :D :D

[treetime]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


TREE ROCKS

ALE.........have ROCKS in their heads! :D

imo.



Beth ROCKS


ALE cant tell the time on CLOCKS :biggrin:

[treetime]

time is running out on PARADISE ISLAND


huge breaking news coming out










not good for the PRIME SUSPECTS :cool: :patriot:

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Wow Fair, you keep writing this and it comes off sounding like you really believe we are all simpletons. This is what your post implies. Mindless "bots" who can't reason sufficiently to form their own opinions. This does not describe the posters here at CTV. You are making tons of ERRONEOUS assumptions about anyone who supports Beth.

Why keep dogging Suki? You've been here long enough to know that MANY of us have patiently explained specifically to you and generally to the board, over and over, especially the few that are left here - but I'll do it AGAIN:

Many feel we might have acted, reacted or said things differently than Beth, but that gives none of us the right to judge, bash or criticize. There you have it. How many ways must this be stated? This is the perfectly logical bottom line.

Notice that the sites supporting the VDS family are dwindling and even some of those and their once-ardent Joran supporters are now changing opinions?! Are they ALL simpleton, mindless Beth-Bots?

Doesn't it make you wonder WHY NO ONE ELSE has questioned Beth? All the savvy newscasters, commentators, Sheriffs, pundits, editors.....how was it that suspicion was immediately cast upon Melinda Duckett's lies after only 2 weeks, yet after 16 months - none is on Beth Twitty?

Could it be because everyone is in agreement that she was not on the island at the time of her daughter's disappearance, had nothing to do with her own daughter's disappearance and that she is devastated to have lost her only daughter?? How about could it be because no one senses she is lying? That there is nothing "fishy" about her stories? That people are supposed to support a grieving parent and can empathize and have compassion? That Americans support victim's rights and plain old "VICTIMS?"

<sigh> This is getting really old.

imo.

WOW Miami .... I really have a problem with those who can believe Joran committed all those heinous crimes without any evidence. You seem to have a problem with my posts .... don't READ them .... skip right over them.

Why do I keep dogging Suki?? .... Now THAT'S funny. From what I have seen Suki post .... she is perfectly capable of handling herself. You seem to have a problem with differences of opinion, in general. PLEASE spare me the part where you have patiently explained things to me specifically, and the board in general. PLEASE don't patronize me.

I have news for you Miami .... whether there are sites supporting Beth or supporting Joran, is of no concern to me. I have this power you see .... this power of "thinking for myself". I have this capability of asking questions. I have this capability of KNOWING when something is just WRONG.

Your last paragraph is fantasy, Miami. I think you are aware that there are PLENTY of people who question Beth's actions .... have done from the beginning. I think MANY people support victim's rights, whether they are American or not. I know I do.
I have no proof there IS a "victim" in this case.

Please get off your "high horse", and PLEASE ignore my posts, if you're not interested in reading them.

JMO

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


WOW Miami .... I really have a problem with those who can believe Joran committed all those heinous crimes without any evidence. You seem to have a problem with my posts .... don't READ them .... skip right over them.

Why do I keep dogging Suki?? .... Now THAT'S funny. From what I have seen Suki post .... she is perfectly capable of handling herself. You seem to have a problem with differences of opinion, in general. PLEASE spare me the part where you have patiently explained things to me specifically, and the board in general. PLEASE don't patronize me.

I have news for you Miami .... whether there are sites supporting Beth or supporting Joran, is of no concern to me. I have this power you see .... this power of "thinking for myself". I have this capability of asking questions. I have this capability of KNOWING when something is just WRONG.

Your last paragraph is fantasy, Miami. I think you are aware that there are PLENTY of people who question Beth's actions .... have done from the beginning. I think MANY people support victim's rights, whether they are American or not. I know I do.
I have no proof there IS a "victim" in this case.

Please get off your "high horse", and PLEASE ignore my posts, if you're not interested in reading them.

JMO



EXCELLENT POST!!!

[feelings]

Originally posted by Watership Down


... about Beth being a victim's mother and not to be bashed is just an excuse. It is reserved for certain parents only.
which parents do you think?

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by shells



So from your standpoint, the last know person to see Natalalee alive lies and it is immaterial.

But her mother is fair game for things that are not relevant to this case ??

Ms. Twitty was not in Aruba. Joran was. Ms. Twitty was not the last person seen alive with Natalee - Joran was. His words are what should be the focus here. Mrs. Twitty's nephews were in Aruba at CnC. They didn't tell the truth. Thomas Twitty had a lawyer before he got back. They refused to be interviewed by FBI/ALE. But that isn't relevant because they aren't friends of Joran. Jug refused to give a DNA sample which could have implicated Thomas Twitty.

MOO:hat:

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by shells



Now that I would like to see...

(I am just going to get really comfy because I KNOW it is going to be a long wait). But that would be really helpful in sorting out all of the "evidence" if we could have anything that documents Jorans story at all - I think many of the MB grads and some of the Arubans can verify much of Joran's account.

There are photos of the belly shot and Joran was seen by many of Natalee's friends.

MOO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Mrs. Twitty's nephews were in Aruba at CnC. They didn't tell the truth. Thomas Twitty had a lawyer before he got back. They refused to be interviewed by FBI/ALE. But that isn't relevant because they aren't friends of Joran.

MOO:hat:

See Luke .... people don't ASK those questions ((I'm talking about posters on the messageboard)). These are all questions I ask myself. Anytime it's even mentioned on the messageboard, or any time a question is asked .... it's never answered. It's always responded to with the classic "they are not suspects". No one addresses the questions. It's just a given that Joran et al are responsible. No evidence is required.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by SlickLime


Beth/Jug were on tv night after night, hour after hour. Their story changed from interview to interview. Are we supposed to listen and blindly accept what they say?

In the beginning, some of the MB kids did the same thing.

The presumption of Joran's lies are based on wht we've heard/read in the media. NO ONE here has seen the official investigation file.

I can honestly say I saw/heard the lies of Beth/Jug/FEB and other MBers. The MB grads were told not to talk to the press, not to give there names or the names of the chaperones. Several of Natalee's friends were chosen and told what to say by Marcia Twitty. Natalee was the dsignated driver.
Natalee drank responsibly. Natalee was always on time. Natalee would not run away.

MOO

[Heyes]

Originally posted by shells



So from your standpoint, the last know person to see Natalalee alive lies and it is immaterial.

But her mother is fair game for things that are not relevant to this case ??

Ms. Twitty was not in Aruba. Joran was. Ms. Twitty was not the last person seen alive with Natalee - Joran was. His words are what should be the focus here.

Hi shells,
This has been my question for along time now.
What all this sidetracking does do is take the focus of the actual facts of the case. It all centers around Joran and the Kalpoes. Their statements and the lack of investigation surrounding them. That's why is was being investigated in the first place and not written off as a run away case. Jorans location and statements.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


I should have added this to my post.

I always wonder about that, AE. We have Beth alluding to this kidnapping, rape and probably murder CONSTANTLY, and some actually believe it!! Why do they believe it ?? There's no evidence of it. MY opinion is, they actually believe it just because Beth says it!! It really does blow my mind how some can just accept this as the truth without any evidence at all!!

JMO DITTO.

Many believe everything Beth says. If she says something that is wrong, they blame the person who informed Beth.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by SukiJane


I believe there is a very thin line between those that obssessively hate Beth, and those that obssessively adore her. True those that adore her don't need to see any evidence at all and will stand behind and believe her no matter what. Then there are the people that obssessively dispise her, that will go against her no matter what kind of evidence is presented.


jmo What about the people who try to believe Beth, but just can't when faced with the facts?

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by treetime



he did not leave her at the beach

LOAD ALERT

LOAD ALERT

no one saw him there, no sneakers were recovered there

LOAD of the century :cool: Easy to have that opinion, difficult to prove.

MOO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Heyes


Hi shells,
This has been my question for along time now.
What all this sidetracking does do is take the focus of the actual facts of the case. It all centers around Joran and the Kalpoes. Their statements and the lack of investigation surrounding them. That's why is was being investigated in the first place and not written off as a run away case. Jorans location and statements.

When you're talking about "statements" Heyes .... are you talking about the ones appearing on the internet?? Those ones which are supposed to be "valid documents"?? I've asked it many times .... Beth seems to have a different "statement" from Joran, which she has referred to .... the one which says he took her to his house, had sex with her, at 1:40 a.m. The valid "statement" which appears on the internet says nothing about that at all. I'm just surprised that anyone would place any credence on ANY "statements" appearing on the internet.

I'm not sure what you mean by "sidetracking"?? How many FACTS do you actually know, Heyes?? Apparently you feel Joran et al are the ONLY ones who should be the focus of attention. It doesn't matter to you, for example, that GVS punched Natalee, according to Beth?? Do you put that in the category of "sidetracking"??

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


See Luke .... people don't ASK those questions ((I'm talking about posters on the messageboard)). These are all questions I ask myself. Anytime it's even mentioned on the messageboard, or any time a question is asked .... it's never answered. It's always responded to with the classic "they are not suspects". No one addresses the questions. It's just a given that Joran et al are responsible. No evidence is required.

JMO More than a year since Natalee went missing and there is still a cloak of silence in MB. Chaperones are gagged. Cameras and cell phones are still under the control of the Twitty's.

MOO

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


When you're talking about "statements" Heyes .... are you talking about the ones appearing on the internet?? Those ones which are supposed to be "valid documents"?? I've asked it many times .... Beth seems to have a different "statement" from Joran, which she has referred to .... the one which says he took her to his house, had sex with her, at 1:40 a.m. The valid "statement" which appears on the internet says nothing about that at all. I'm just surprised that anyone would place any credence on ANY "statements" appearing on the internet.

I'm not sure what you mean by "sidetracking"?? How many FACTS do you actually know, Heyes?? Apparently you feel Joran et al are the ONLY ones who should be the focus of attention. It doesn't matter to you, for example, that GVS punched Natalee, according to Beth?? Do you put that in the category of "sidetracking"??

JMO


Those "statements" have been forwarded to cable media including Nancy Grace and Greta. Ask yourself why they haven't jumped on them? ;)

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
More than a year since Natalee went missing and there is still a cloak of silence in MB. Chaperones are gagged. Cameras and cell phones are still under the control of the Twitty's.

MOO

These are all GREAT questions. Why??

I need to mention when I capitalized GREAT, it was for emphasis .... you know like STRESSING a certain word .... like Paula used to do. It really doesn't have anything to do with "outrage". I just want to clarify that.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Luke, we have yet to see proof of "Thomas Twitty getting a lawyer before he got back." IIRC, there were some things posted but never proof of this exactly.

Also, the context in which jug "refused" to give the DNA was in repsonse to the "toothbrush" ordeal. At the time, thsi request was viewed as unnecessary, as Jug was not on Aruba and not responsible for Natalee's disappearance. As far as the DNA possibly trying to match one of the Twitty Twins, I do not believe this has ever been mentioned before as a reason for the request of Jug's DNA. Have you read this somewhere? TIA.

As I've also posted many times, it is, IMO, true that the Twitty Twins should have been more caring/vigilant about their step-cousin, no doubt. This was inexcusable.

IMO.

P.S. - I am answering this question becuase you have stated something I do not remember reading or agreeing with. (Because this is a public messageboard) and you have not ASKED in outraged CAPS! ;) Many things have been posted without proof, there is no proof.

Jug has never given a DNA sample.

It just seems odd but not proveable some of the actions of the Twittys. It is just something I question MiamiNice1. Some people say forget MB, not relevant, concentrate on Joran. But I am thinking if all the rumors are false it would be easy to clear the record.


MOO
IMO
JMO

[Heyes]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


When you're talking about "statements" Heyes .... are you talking about the ones appearing on the internet?? Those ones which are supposed to be "valid documents"?? I've asked it many times .... Beth seems to have a different "statement" from Joran, which she has referred to .... the one which says he took her to his house, had sex with her, at 1:40 a.m. The valid "statement" which appears on the internet says nothing about that at all. I'm just surprised that anyone would place any credence on ANY "statements" appearing on the internet.

I'm not sure what you mean by "sidetracking"?? How many FACTS do you actually know, Heyes?? Apparently you feel Joran et al are the ONLY ones who should be the focus of attention. It doesn't matter to you, for example, that GVS punched Natalee, according to Beth?? Do you put that in the category of "sidetracking"??

JMO

Well fair, I tend to go by what I see. What I've seen and heard is the same as everyone else. What I mean by sidetracking is... If your spending your time talking about what beth ate or didn't eat or what is said at her speeches instead of concentrating on Natalee and the last time she was seen. And who was last seen with her. Then that's is sidetracking. It doesn't matter and is taking the attention away from the case at hand.
I think they should re-investigate all of them.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Oh, Heyes, you haven't read? Joran and 2K have "explained" their lies.....so it's ok. ;)

imo.
Right, skeeeered! lol

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Heyes


Well fair, I tend to go by what I see. What I've seen and heard is the same as everyone else. What I mean by sidetracking is... If your spending your time talking about what beth ate or didn't eat or what is said at her speeches instead of concentrating on Natalee and the last time she was seen. And who was last seen with her. Then that's is sidetracking. It doesn't matter and is taking the attention away from the case at hand.
I think they should re-investigate all of them.

We know that Joran was the last KNOWN person to be seen with Natalee. Since a long time has elapsed, Joran et al were incarcerated and interrogated for months, then released .... I think it's a fair conclusion to reach, that the Prosecutor was not able to PROVE Joran et al were responsible .... harmed her .... kidnapped her .... raped her .... murdered her. In fact, she has stated that.

Many are convinced Joran is still lying .... many will always be convinced of that, so it doesn't really matter what he says .... he's not going to be believed anyway.

I also think it's perfectly fair to discuss what Beth says in her speeches. What Beth eats, or doesn't eat .... whether or not she sleeps is not something I think about. Beth has inserted herself right in the middle of this investigation. I ALSO think it's fair to criticize what she says. She is giving a speech which includes statements by her, which have not been proven. I can't condone that .... not because it's Beth doing it .... I wouldn't be able to condone it if ANYONE did it.

JMO

[treetime]

Originally posted by Heyes

Right, skeeeered! lol


skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered


OH MY

the gambler, drinker, abuser, sneaker out at nighter, LIAR of the century,,

skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered

thats LAUGHABLE


help me i have fallen over and cant get up

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPpp


:biggrin: :biggrin:

[No Nic]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


<snipped>

Beth has inserted herself right in the middle of this investigation.

<snipped>
JMO

Here is a statement that I just CAN'T BELIEVE anyone would make.

Her daughter went missing in another country ??? "Inserted" herself ?? What do you think she should have done ?? Hidden herself away in a dark room to cry and miss her daughter ?? Should she have quietly *allowed* the Keystone Kops to bungle this investigation ??

I greatly admire Beth for not allowing what transpired in Aruba to go unquestioned. I wish Willard "Bud" Larson's family could have had the same resources and done the same, Aruba needs to realize that AMERICANS value their loved ones and want ANSWERS.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Heyes

Right, skeeeered! lol For a second I thought you wrote... skeeteereed.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by treetime



skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered


OH MY

the gambler, drinker, abuser, sneaker out at nighter, LIAR of the century,,

skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered

thats LAUGHABLE


help me i have fallen over and cant get up

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPpp


:biggrin: :biggrin: Deepak was skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeteeeeeeeered.:hat: MOO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by No Nic


Here is a statement that I just CAN'T BELIEVE anyone would make.

Her daughter went missing in another country ??? "Inserted" herself ?? What do you think she should have done ?? Hidden herself away in a dark room to cry and miss her daughter ?? Should she have quietly *allowed* the Keystone Kops to bungle this investigation ??

I greatly admire Beth for not allowing what transpired in Aruba to go unquestioned. I wish Willard "Bud" Larson's family could have had the same resources and done the same, Aruba needs to realize that AMERICANS value their loved ones and want ANSWERS.

IMO

I love how dramatic you can be sometimes, No Nic.

The reason I mentioned that was .... some seem to question the fact Beth is discussed at ALL on the messageboard. They might not have a problem with her being discussed, as long as she is reverently praised. The moment something she does or says is criticized .... then some question why she is being focused on.

Goodness .... it's only Americans who value their loved ones?? Why would you stress AMERICANS in that context??

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


<snip>
I wish Willard "Bud" Larson's family could have had the same resources and done the same, Aruba needs to realize that AMERICANS value their loved ones and want ANSWERS.

IMO What would have been different?

[Luke Davis]

Thomas Twitty (http://furmanpaladins.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/twitty_thomas00.html)

[treetime]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


LOLOLOLOL! "Sneaker out at nighter..."

OR

NO SNEAKER, sneaker out at nighter!

WHERE are Joran's sneakers???

imo.

that what i want to know?


where are they :seeya:

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
What about the people who try to believe Beth, but just can't when faced with the facts?

I would say those fall in between, just like the ones that would like to think that a seventeen year old Joran is innocent of any wrongdoing, but can't when faced with some very scary facts. jmo

[No Nic]

Originally posted by treetime



skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered


OH MY

the gambler, drinker, abuser, sneaker out at nighter, LIAR of the century,,

skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered

thats LAUGHABLE


help me i have fallen over and cant get up

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPpp


:biggrin: :biggrin:

OMG, Tree. I wasn't here when you fell or I would have rushed to your rescue. ARE YOU OK ?????????

[Luke Davis]

At what point would it be reasonable and acceptable to look at others? It seems to me the time has come.


MOO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


I love how dramatic you can be sometimes, No Nic.

The reason I mentioned that was .... some seem to question the fact Beth is discussed at ALL on the messageboard. They might not have a problem with her being discussed, as long as she is reverently praised. The moment something she does or says is criticized .... then some question why she is being focused on.

Goodness .... it's only Americans who value their loved ones?? Why would you stress AMERICANS in that context??

JMO



Dramatic? I see nothing dramatic in my post.

I have said this before and I will say it again, it is not simply the fact that Beth is discussed on this board, it is the WAY she is discussed. Vile, disgusting, venomously, hatefully and much, much more. It is OVER the TOP, IMO.

I question how much value ALE and Aruban officials put on a human life, after watching what they have done (or should I say NOT done) in this case.

AMOO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
What would have been different?

We will never know, will we.

[treetime]

Originally posted by No Nic


OMG, Tree. I wasn't here when you fell or I would have rushed to your rescue. ARE YOU OK ?????????

thank you :)


i busted a few limbs







:biggrin:

[treetime]

i need to leaf for a bit

back later


maybe we can stop getting "stumped" by this case
and branch out some new theories



:cool: :biggrin:

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


We will never know, will we. We know at this moment both cases have had the same result.

MOO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
We know at this moment both cases have had the same result.

MOO

Sad, very very sad.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by No Nic




Dramatic? I see nothing dramatic in my post.

I have said this before and I will say it again, it is not simply the fact that Beth is discussed on this board, it is the WAY she is discussed. Vile, disgusting, venomously, hatefully and much, much more. It is OVER the TOP, IMO.

I question how much value ALE and Aruban officials put on a human life, after watching what they have done (or should I say NOT done) in this case.

AMOO
Yes, dramatic is quite descriptive . Actually, overly dramatic.

Beth is no different than anyone else involved in this case. If Joran, the Kalpoes, Joran's family, Dompig and the prosecution are open to criticism, certainly the person who has thrust herself to the forefront of the case, made accusations without a shred of evidence, collected money under false pretenses, and thwarted the investigation in every way she could, is open to scrutiny.

You're in no better position to judge what ALE has or hasn't done than the millions of people who have received their information from biased, generally uninformed as you are, tabloid TV personalties.

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Yes, dramatic is quite descriptive . Actually, overly dramatic.

Beth is no different than anyone else involved in this case. If Joran, the Kalpoes, Joran's family, Dompig and the prosecution are open to criticism, certainly the person who has thrust herself to the forefront of the case, made accusations without a shred of evidence, collected money under false pretenses, and thwarted the investigation in every way she could, is open to scrutiny.

You're in no better position to judge what ALE has or hasn't done than the millions of people who have received their information from biased, generally uninformed as you are, tabloid TV personalties.

Beth most certainly IS DIFFERENT than ANYONE else in this case. SHE is the ONLY mother of the missing Natalee Ann Holloway. Or is there another mother that we don't know about. :rolleyes:

YOU have nothing to base YOUR judgement on except your own PERSONAL OPINION, so get off your high-horse and accept the fact that there are others who have just as much right to their opinion. :punch:

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Yes, dramatic is quite descriptive . Actually, overly dramatic.

Beth is no different than anyone else involved in this case. If Joran, the Kalpoes, Joran's family, Dompig and the prosecution are open to criticism, certainly the person who has thrust herself to the forefront of the case, made accusations without a shred of evidence, collected money under false pretenses, and thwarted the investigation in every way she could, is open to scrutiny.

You're in no better position to judge what ALE has or hasn't done than the millions of people who have received their information from biased, generally uninformed as you are, tabloid TV personalties.

This is so well said, Gregor. Your post, especially the first paragraph is .... well .... you NAILED it!!!

It occurs to me .... trying to discuss this case WITHOUT discussing Beth, is sort of like discussing the making of omelettes without mentioning the eggs!!!

JMO

[shells]

Originally posted by No Nic


Beth most certainly IS DIFFERENT than ANYONE else in this case. SHE is the ONLY mother of the missing Natalee Ann Holloway. Or is there another mother that we don't know about. :rolleyes:

YOU have nothing to base YOUR judgement on except your own PERSONAL OPINION, so get off your high-horse and accept the fact that there are others who have just as much right to their opinion. :punch:


:beer:

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


<snip> Or is there another mother that we don't know about. :rolleyes:

<snip>:punch: Marcia Twitty, mother of Hunter and Thomas. Spokesperson for the family. Confiscated the cameras and cell phones. Instructed the MB grads not to tell their names or the names of the chaperones. Rehearsed interviews with selected friends of Natalee. Did you know about that mother?

MOO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Marcia Twitty, mother of Hunter and Thomas. Spokesperson for the family. Confiscated the cameras and cell phones. Instructed the MB grads not to tell their names or the names of the chaperones. Rehearsed interviews with selected friends of Natalee. Did you know about that mother?

MOO

These are OTHER questions which never really get answered, Luke. Why would someone need to do that?? WHY confiscate the cameras, and the cell phones?? What pictures could there be that the Twitty family didn't want seen?? Why is there such secrecy about the "chaperones"?? Is it because they failed miserably in their ONE duty which they seemed to have .... that of handling emergencies .... there might be public outcry ((deservedly so))??

ETA .... Marcia Twitty rehearsed interviews with selected friends?? Well she certainly didn't prepare them very well .... any interview I ever saw of them, they seemed very unsure of answers to very simple questions. They seemed to look to each other for affirmation, before answering any question.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


These are OTHER questions which never really get answered, Luke. Why would someone need to do that?? WHY confiscate the cameras, and the cell phones?? What pictures could there be that the Twitty family didn't want seen?? Why is there such secrecy about the "chaperones"?? Is it because they failed miserably in their ONE duty which they seemed to have .... that of handling emergencies .... there might be public outcry ((deservedly so))??

ETA .... Marcia Twitty rehearsed interviews with selected friends?? Well she certainly didn't prepare them very well .... any interview I ever saw of them, they seemed very unsure of answers to very simple questions. They seemed to look to each other for affirmation, before answering any question.

JMO I agree. The first interviews didn't look natural. Then they would mumble something about Natalee drinking responsibly and everyone would shake heads.

MOO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
I agree. The first interviews didn't look natural. Then they would mumble something about Natalee drinking responsibly and everyone would shake heads.

MOO

If there ever was a "coached" phrase to come out of all this .... it's the phrase "drinking responsibly". I always think to myself .... what kid would SAY that?? Her friends might say something like .... "she didn't really drink that much" .... but "she was drinking responsibly"?? It has always sounded, to me, like they were TOLD to say that.

JMO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Marcia Twitty, mother of Hunter and Thomas. Spokesperson for the family. Confiscated the cameras and cell phones. Instructed the MB grads not to tell their names or the names of the chaperones. Rehearsed interviews with selected friends of Natalee. Did you know about that mother?

MOO

Nice try, there are a lot of mothers out there, including my own, but none of them are Natalee's mother and that is what the post I was responding to was refering to, BETH.

Seems as if when there is no reasonable or logical response to a post, seems as if the response is to change the subject. Okay........

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


Nice try, there are a lot of mothers out there, including my own, but none of them are Natalee's mother and that is what the post I was responding to was refering to, BETH.

Seems as if when there is no reasonable or logical response to a post, seems as if the response is to change the subject. Okay........ Perhaps I misunderstood. Beth is not the only mother to lose a child. There are other mothers related to the case. So, when you ask if you forgot a mother, yes, I think you did.

MOO

[Devotion]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Mrs. Twitty's nephews were in Aruba at CnC. They didn't tell the truth. Thomas Twitty had a lawyer before he got back. They refused to be interviewed by FBI/ALE. But that isn't relevant because they aren't friends of Joran. Jug refused to give a DNA sample which could have implicated Thomas Twitty.

MOO:hat:
:shrug: IMO: There seems to be many unanswered questions in this case....jmo

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Perhaps I misunderstood. Beth is not the only mother to lose a child. There are other mothers related to the case. So, when you ask if you forgot a mother, yes, I think you did.

MOO

No, Beth is not the only mother to lose a child, but she is the only mother in this case to lose a child. Your response was to bring up Marcia, when did she lose a child? Maybe I also misunderstood???

imo

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


No, Beth is not the only mother to lose a child, but she is the only mother in this case to lose a child. Your response was to bring up Marcia, when did she lose a child? Maybe I also misunderstood???

imo You lost me. If you are saying Beth is different, I agree. But everyone is different. Is Beth the only one to lose a child? I don't know. Does everyone have to treat people differently because they lost a child?

You seem to be saying that a mother has a special privaledge of not being suspect but we know mothers kill their children. Why shouldn't we look at Beth and the Twitty family? If it is so obvious that they are innocent why would they mind some skeptics asking a few question and looking at DNA?

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Devotion

:shrug: IMO: There seems to be many unanswered questions in this case....jmo I agree. Open the shades and let the sunshine in. Let's get some answers.

MOO

[Chocoholic]

Time and again I am entertained by those who appear to have watched too many US cop shows. One can watch a crime take place on tv and still the person who is obviously guilty of the crime gets the line "The suspect is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law".

Neither Joran nor the Kalpoe brothers were caught at doing anything but for Natalee willingly getting into a car, even after her friends urged her to get out. There is no evidence, circumstantial or otherwise that would put any of the three above or any of the other suspects that have been taken into custody into the same category as a suspect in the US simply because in the US more proof is required before a person can be arrested and held in custody, even for 48 hrs.

Unfortunately many still can't get their minds wrapped around the concept that "suspect" in the US has a different meaning in than under Aruban or Dutch law.

Their loss, but what a crying shame.

So far no evidence of even a crime having taken place. NONE.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by treetime



skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered


OH MY

the gambler, drinker, abuser, sneaker out at nighter, LIAR of the century,,

skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered

thats LAUGHABLE


help me i have fallen over and cant get up

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPpp


:biggrin: :biggrin:


Actually tree, just about everything joran said is laughable. Not an ounce of remorse or concern towards Natalee, just blame.

Hard to believe there's much that skeeeeeeeers that kid.
He is cetainly lacking a thing called decorum. His flaunting the blond, ( gotta question that ones brain cell count), at the Hotel in aruba is just one great example.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by No Nic


Beth most certainly IS DIFFERENT than ANYONE else in this case. SHE is the ONLY mother of the missing Natalee Ann Holloway. Or is there another mother that we don't know about. :rolleyes:

YOU have nothing to base YOUR judgement on except your own PERSONAL OPINION, so get off your high-horse and accept the fact that there are others who have just as much right to their opinion. :punch:

Very well said! It seems that the only thing we have to do is BELIEVE joran and then all will be well. I just can't figure out how I'm supposed to believe this primary suspect who has told multiple lies. :shrug:
We are told constantly that we must be lacking in our evaluation of the situation because we don't have "open minds". This is too funny, after knowing the facts which are simple, Joran = last guy with natalee. Joran = lying about his alibi, we are supposed to believe she might of swam off into the sea. or just ran away. I chose to go with the obvious instead of making up some far fetched scenario to make the liar seem innocent. Those that ridicule our posts seem to forget that they hold no more insight than anyone else on this board. Enough with the open mind comments, it's becoming laughable. I remember being told time and time again that I didn't have an "open mind" during the Scott peterson trial. Guess what! Once again, the last person with the victim that lied his butt of is on death row. How well did that "open mind " work for them on that one????????? Maybe open mind really means big black hole? lol

[treetime]

Originally posted by Heyes



Actually tree, just about everything joran said is laughable. Not an ounce of remorse or concern towards Natalee, just blame.

Hard to believe there's much that skeeeeeeeers that kid.
He is cetainly lacking a thing called decorum. His flaunting the blond, ( gotta question that ones brain cell count), at the Hotel in aruba is just one great example.


yep:patriot:

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Heyes


Very well said! It seems that the only thing we have to do is BELIEVE joran and then all will be well. I just can't figure out how I'm supposed to believe this primary suspect who has told multiple lies. :shrug:
We are told constantly that we must be lacking in our evaluation of the situation because we don't have "open minds". This is too funny, after knowing the facts which are simple, Joran = last guy with natalee. Joran = lying about his alibi, we are supposed to believe she might of swam off into the sea. or just ran away. I chose to go with the obvious instead of making up some far fetched scenario to make the liar seem innocent. Those that ridicule our posts seem to forget that they hold no more insight than anyone else on this board. Enough with the open mind comments, it's becoming laughable. I remember being told time and time again that I didn't have an "open mind" during the Scott peterson trial. Guess what! Once again, the last person with the victim that lied his butt of is on death row. How well did that "open mind " work for them on that one????????? Maybe open mind really means big black hole? lol

Heyes .... I don't think anyone is telling you you should BELIEVE Joran. I'm positive, no matter WHAT he would say, you WOULDN'T believe him.

There are a couple of "facts" you mentioned, that really are just speculation on your part. He was the last KNOWN person with Natalee, so your insistence that he was the "last guy with Natalee" is NOT a fact. There is no doubt he lied about his alibi, but that does not prove he harmed Natalee.

Being "open minded", to me, means that ANY scenario which might have happened here, should be considered. If we are truly interested in some resolution, we must be willing to consider ALL things .... that could include an accident .... it could include her voluntarily leaving .... it could include some harm coming to her after Joran left her on the beach .... and lastly, it could include Joran et al harming her.

I've considered the last scenario .... I have ALSO said that, IF credible evidence is found implicating Joran et al, they should be arrested, charged, tried, convicted, and punished. There are posters who are not willing to discuss anything OTHER than the last scenario. That's just not being "open minded" to me, especially since the Prosecutor has said, there is no evidence of any crime!!

I know this probably wasn't your intention .... but there really is no comparison here to Scott Peterson.

JMO

[treetime]

the FACT is that JORAN is the LAST person to be with Natalee
as we know it right now
In other words thats the FACT JACK



there is not a HINT of evidence that ANYONE other than JORAN was with Natalee



BANK IT

CRANK IT

TANK IT --------- just like ARUBA TOURISM :biggrin:

[Twinky]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


If there ever was a "coached" phrase to come out of all this .... it's the phrase "drinking responsibly". I always think to myself .... what kid would SAY that?? Her friends might say something like .... "she didn't really drink that much" .... but "she was drinking responsibly"?? It has always sounded, to me, like they were TOLD to say that.

JMO

Absolutely true fm, particularly when they were lying and they knew it. Not one of their 302's even mention 'responsibly,' rather words, like "we had to tell her several times to slow it down' or she had to be escorted to her room b/c she was too drunk.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by treetime
the FACT is that JORAN is the LAST person to be with Natalee
as we know it right now
In other words thats the FACT JACK



there is not a HINT of evidence that ANYONE other than JORAN was with Natalee



BANK IT

CRANK IT

TANK IT --------- just like ARUBA TOURISM :biggrin:

Well, tree .... I think there's a great deal of difference between being ABSOLUTELY the last person with Natalee, and the last KNOWN to be with Natalee. The difference is self-explanatory.

I don't dispute that Joran was with Natalee .... I'm not at all sure he was ABSOLUTELY the last person to be with her.

Again .... if you're talking about that specific night .... yes, Joran was with her. We really have no way of knowing if she was with anyone ELSE during her stay on the Island. We DO know she was punched by someone OTHER than Joran .... that in itself, would be very troublesome to me.

JMO

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Devotion

:shrug: IMO: There seems to be many unanswered questions in this case....jmo


And alot of them begin and end in MountainBrook Alabama.

[treetime]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Well, tree .... I think there's a great deal of difference between being ABSOLUTELY the last person with Natalee, and the last KNOWN to be with Natalee. The difference is self-explanatory.

I don't dispute that Joran was with Natalee .... I'm not at all sure he was ABSOLUTELY the last person to be with her.

Again .... if you're talking about that specific night .... yes, Joran was with her. We really have no way of knowing if she was with anyone ELSE during her stay on the Island. We DO know she was punched by someone OTHER than Joran .... that in itself, would be very troublesome to me.

JMO

show me a shread of evidence that HE was not the last to be with her...... a shread PLEASE

he says he left her on the beach (we know thats a LOAD )

there is not a SHREAD to say he was NOT the last one with her

:patriot:

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by treetime


show me a shread of evidence that HE was not the last to be with her...... a shread PLEASE

he says he left her on the beach (we know thats a LOAD )

there is not a SHREAD to say he was NOT the last one with her

:patriot:


No we don't know that that's a load. Cell phone records put him on the beach at the time he said he was there with her. Her body, dead or alive, has not been found so no one knows what happened to her or who is responsible.

[treetime]

Originally posted by Watership Down



No we don't know that that's a load. Cell phone records put him on the beach at the time he said he was there with her. Her body, dead or alive, has not been found so no one knows what happened to her or who is responsible.


someone was on the beach with his phone

:cool:

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by treetime



someone was on the beach with his phone

:cool:



Now that is a load. :biggrin:

[treetime]

Originally posted by Watership Down




Now that is a load. :biggrin:

nope :cool:

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by treetime


nope :cool:


It takes too many excuses to make Joran the guilty party. Someone using his phone to provide him an alibi. Same with the computer usage at home. That would involve too many people and someone would have broke by now.

[Devotion]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
More than a year since Natalee went missing and there is still a cloak of silence in MB. Chaperones are gagged. Cameras and cell phones are still under the control of the Twitty's.

MOO
:shrug: imo: WHY?
What ever happened about the phone call with the monkey screaming in the background??
Wasn't there another phone call with N saying "I don't know these people" and then hanging up??? were these calls ever traced to anyone?...jmo

[Devotion]

Originally posted by Watership Down



And alot of them begin and end in MountainBrook Alabama.

:read: imo I AGREE
Is there an estimate of how many people (# please)were awake, moving around the hotels, sitting around on boats, fishing, swimming, in the Casino's & on the beach after the concert that night around 1:00??jmo

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Devotion


:read: imo I AGREE
Is there an estimate of how many people (# please)were awake, moving around the hotels, sitting around on boats, fishing, swimming, in the Casino's & on the beach after the concert that night around 1:00??jmo


I have never seen an official one, only guesses.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by treetime



someone was on the beach with his phone

:cool:

You have an answer for everything, tree .... lol. It's just as easy for me to believe HE was on the beach with his cell phone.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Watership Down



It takes too many excuses to make Joran the guilty party. Someone using his phone to provide him an alibi. Same with the computer usage at home. That would involve too many people and someone would have broke by now.

You're exactly right with this, WD. So many people would have to be involved in WHAT ???? As someone has mentioned before .... ALL of this would have to have been pre-arranged .... someone on computers .... someone on cell phones. WHAT were they pre-arranging??

NONE of that makes any sense to me.

JMO

[treetime]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


You have an answer for everything, tree .... lol. It's just as easy for me to believe HE was on the beach with his cell phone.

JMO

thats what my BOSS said 5 years ago when i threw my keys on his desk and i said. "IM DONE today haeva nice day"


he calls me every other month wants me to come back and i pretend to be an answerign machine and ignore him

:biggrin:

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Devotion


:read: imo I AGREE
Is there an estimate of how many people (# please)were awake, moving around the hotels, sitting around on boats, fishing, swimming, in the Casino's & on the beach after the concert that night around 1:00??jmo There were many thousands at the concert, 2,500 came by boat. Most night 1000s stayed on the beach but Natalee went missing the last night of the concert.

MOO

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Twinky


Absolutely true fm, particularly when they were lying and they knew it. Not one of their 302's even mention 'responsibly,' rather words, like "we had to tell her several times to slow it down' or she had to be escorted to her room b/c she was too drunk.
It shouldn't matter is she drank a bottle of vodka, while dancing naked on the bar. She shouldn't have disappeared off the face of the earth after being seen leaving with 3 local guys! Put the blame where it belongs!

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by Watership Down



It takes too many excuses to make Joran the guilty party. Someone using his phone to provide him an alibi. Same with the computer usage at home. That would involve too many people and someone would have broke by now.

You're absolutely correct.

:)

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by treetime


thats what my BOSS said 5 years ago when i threw my keys on his desk and i said. "IM DONE today haeva nice day"


he calls me every other month wants me to come back and i pretend to be an answerign machine and ignore him

:biggrin:

LOL ....

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Heyes

It shouldn't matter is she drank a bottle of vodka, while dancing naked on the bar. She shouldn't have disappeared off the face of the earth after being seen leaving with 3 local guys! Put the blame where it belongs!

Who said anything about "blame" .... ??

[No Nic]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Who said anything about "blame" .... ??

The word "blame" may not be used, but Natalee, her family and friends are blamed by the Joran supporters here every day.

IMO, it is just plain sick.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Heyes

It shouldn't matter is she drank a bottle of vodka, while dancing naked on the bar. She shouldn't have disappeared off the face of the earth after being seen leaving with 3 local guys! Put the blame where it belongs! It shouldn't matter but it does. It just isn't a good idea to go where you are a stranger, dance on the bar, give belly shots, drink too much and leave with strangers.

The ones who didn't all caught the plane home.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


You're right, Heyes. It sure doesn't matter what Natalee did or did not do. To say otherwise is just blaming the victim. :no:

IMO. I don't want to blame any victims. But what if Natalee had missed the plane and been found sleeping on the beach. Would her mom have blamed her?

Or what if Natalee had willingly stayed with Joran? Would Beth have blamed Joran?

I think some people made unwise choices and a bad thing resulted.

MOO

[cassidy]

Originally posted by Heyes

It shouldn't matter is she drank a bottle of vodka, while dancing naked on the bar. She shouldn't have disappeared off the face of the earth after being seen leaving with 3 local guys! Put the blame where it belongs!

No it shouldn't matter and in a perfect world it wouldn't matter. But the world we live in isn't perfect and I think we all know that. Dancing naked on a bar while drinking a bottle of vodka can draw unwanted attention and result in negative consequences. As a female, I have the right to walk down any street in the country at any time of day or nite. But I know that walking alone at 3 AM ups my risk factor of a crime occurring dramatically. That's NOT blaming the victim, that's a sad simple fact of life as we know it.
And you are correct, she shouldn't have disappeared off the face of the earth, but it appears that she has and blame for that has yet to be proven.

IMO

[Heyes]

Originally posted by cassidy


No it shouldn't matter and in a perfect world it wouldn't matter. But the world we live in isn't perfect and I think we all know that. Dancing naked on a bar while drinking a bottle of vodka can draw unwanted attention and result in negative consequences. As a female, I have the right to walk down any street in the country at any time of day or nite. But I know that walking alone at 3 AM ups my risk factor of a crime occurring dramatically. That's NOT blaming the victim, that's a sad simple fact of life as we know it.
And you are correct, she shouldn't have disappeared off the face of the earth, but it appears that she has and blame for that has yet to be proven.

IMO

So, as a female, you realize that by picking apart what Natalee wore or what she drank, ( by the by, how much she drank and the belly shot is still in question.) is placing blame on the victim. As a female you should be very aware of the "blame the victim" mindset that woman have been fighting against forever. There are 3 young men that took advantage of a young lady. Deepak even thought he had her pegged by what she was wearing. To him and I would assume his brother and joran, Natalee "looked and dressed like a slu*. Therefore she was fair game. That is an attitude that needs to be stamped out in this world. It stems from ignorance.What we have witnessed by a handful of posters on this board has been enlightening in a sad way. I had hoped that we had come farther along than this. We all know that 3 guys took natalee with them for one reason and it wasn't to sight see.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Who said anything about "blame" .... ??

I did ..... read my post above. I explained it to Cassidy.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
I don't want to blame any victims. But what if Natalee had missed the plane and been found sleeping on the beach. Would her mom have blamed her?

Or what if Natalee had willingly stayed with Joran? Would Beth have blamed Joran?

I think some people made unwise choices and a bad thing resulted.

MOO

Regarding your first question, she wouln't be a victim. Yes, her mom would have blamed her. Probably would be pi**ed at her friends too.I know I would be.
Second question, once again she would not be considered a victim, I don't know about Beth but I would blame my daughter and she would be in big time trouble.
But, this is not what I'm talking about when I was discussing the
neanderthal way of thinking when it comes to blaming the victim.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Heyes


So, as a female, you realize that by picking apart what Natalee wore or what she drank, ( by the by, how much she drank and the belly shot is still in question.) is placing blame on the victim. As a female you should be very aware of the "blame the victim" mindset that woman have been fighting against forever. There are 3 young men that took advantage of a young lady. Deepak even thought he had her pegged by what she was wearing. To him and I would assume his brother and joran, Natalee "looked and dressed like a slu*. Therefore she was fair game. That is an attitude that needs to be stamped out in this world. It stems from ignorance.What we have witnessed by a handful of posters on this board has been enlightening in a sad way. I had hoped that we had come farther along than this. We all know that 3 guys took natalee with them for one reason and it wasn't to sight see.

Heyes .... There are so many things in your post which are not established as fact .... which haven't been proven.

Your entire post is based on "3 young men that took advantage of a young lady". Surely you're not surprised by the fact that young men LOOK at what women wear. It happens the world over!! Deepak was the one who said Natalee "looked and dressed like a slu*. YOU are saying "she was fair game". This is YOUR opinion, Heyes. You DON'T know what Joran and Satish thought.

You talk about a "handful of posters on the board", and what they post being enlightening, in a sad way, to you. It's just as offensive to me to see you post that "we all know that 3 guys took Natalee with them for one reason .......". You're speaking for me when you say "we all", and I don't know anything of the sort. I DON'T know that 3 young men took advantage of a young lady. It's just as offensive to me to see a HANDFUL of posters have no problem at all stating that Joran murdered Natalee. You apparently DON'T see a problem with that.

JMO

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by Heyes

<snip>
As a female you should be very aware of the "blame the victim" mindset that woman have been fighting against forever. There are 3 young men that took advantage of a young lady. Deepak even thought he had her pegged by what she was wearing. To him and I would assume his brother and joran, Natalee "looked and dressed like a slu*. Therefore she was fair game. That is an attitude that needs to be stamped out in this world.
<snip>
Why do some women dress like sluts?

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Why do some women dress like sluts?


point made...:punch:

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by Heyes



point made...
Really? You really think you made a point.

Sorry, as usual you're wrong.

You've set yourself up as the moral authority on this board, so answer the question. Why would a woman dress like a ****.
What's her motivation?

What reaction should she expect?

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Heyes



point made...:punch:

Yes, point was made, Heyes, it is sick. Do these posters really agree with Deepak that Natalee was dressed like a ****? Do they live in an Amish community or what? Natalee was dressed very appropriate and looked very normal and nice in the pictures of that night.

So if you think she was dressed like a **** and drank alcohol ........she deserved whatever she got, right?? Otherwise why even discuss it??

Whatever happened, happened in Aruba. Why not discuss the case instead of picking apart Natalee and her mother.

Oh, I know, not denigrating the victim and family would not be any fun for you, would it?

imo

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Really? You really think you made a point.

Sorry, as usual you're wrong.

You've set yourself up as the moral authority on this board, so answer the question. Why would a woman dress like a ****.
What's her motivation?

What reaction should she expect?

It's that "moral high ground" I mentioned the other day, Gregor. IF there are any posters who think Natalee "looked like a slu*" .... it's definitely a vast minority, and anyone with any common sense KNOWS that a woman doesn't ask to be raped, or murdered. I would think they would anyway.

Anyone with any common sense ALSO has to realize that, when it comes to a female standing in the back of a bar .... versus one who is lying on the bar offering a jello shot from her navel .... WHO is going to get the most attention?? It doesn't make it right or wrong .... that's just the way it is!!! In itself, it's an act to draw attention to oneself. I, as a female, would have to accept the fact if I'm going to lie across a bar, I'm going to get attention!!

No one is saying, BECAUSE Natalee is reported to have done this, she DESERVES any harm that would come to her. That's the spin those who have placed themselves on this "moral high ground", put on it.

JMO

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by No Nic

<snip>

So if you think she was dressed like a **** and drank alcohol ........she deserved whatever she got, right??
<snip>

Can you point to a single post on this board where anyone has said this?

Let me answer. No, you can't.

Just another attempt to put words into someone's mouth in attempt to justify an agenda.

You people keep harping about the facts, why don't you try sticking to them?

Oh, that's right, they don't prove any of your allegations, do they?

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by No Nic


Yes, point was made, Heyes, it is sick. Do these posters really agree with Deepak that Natalee was dressed like a ****? Do they live in an Amish community or what? Natalee was dressed very appropriate and looked very normal and nice in the pictures of that night.

So if you think she was dressed like a **** and drank alcohol ........she deserved whatever she got, right?? Otherwise why even discuss it??

Whatever happened, happened in Aruba. Why not discuss the case instead of picking apart Natalee and her mother.

Oh, I know, not denigrating the victim and family would not be any fun for you, would it?

imo

No Nic .... I, for one, think Natalee was dressed appropriately.

Your second paragraph is just silly, No Nic. I agree with you .... why even discuss it ?? Heyes was the one who began the discussion about "slu*s", and what Natalee was wearing.

Now .... to get back to the case, as you say. Can I assume you don't have a problem with Heyes' post .... when she says "we all know these 3 boys took advantage of her"?? As I said, in my response to Heyes .... I DON'T know that.

You want to discuss the case as long as Joran et al are blamed for Natalee's disappearance. You want to discuss the case, as long as subjects YOU don't think are appropriate are not discussed. You want to discuss the case, as long as Beth is not mentioned ((in a derogatory manner)).

No Nic .... that's not "discussion/debate". That's allowing one opinion only, and there are sites which are geared for exactly that.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Heyes


Regarding your first question, she wouln't be a victim. Yes, her mom would have blamed her. Probably would be pi**ed at her friends too.I know I would be.
Second question, once again she would not be considered a victim, I don't know about Beth but I would blame my daughter and she would be in big time trouble.
But, this is not what I'm talking about when I was discussing the
neanderthal way of thinking when it comes to blaming the victim. Thank you for proving my point Heyes.

MOO

[Chocoholic]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Why do some women dress like sluts?

Dressing like a sl*t is all in the eyes of the person observing the woman that is dressed in such a manner.

From a North American point of view she may not have been dressed like a sl*t, however, with an East Indian background such as the Kalpoes, one could easily see that comparing western and eastern "dress codes" she didn't dress or behave modestly by middle eastern standards.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


Yes, point was made, Heyes, it is sick. Do these posters really agree with Deepak that Natalee was dressed like a ****? Do they live in an Amish community or what?
<snip>

imo Where Deepak and Satish come from only a **** whould show her thigh.

MOO

[Chocoholic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Where Deepak and Satish come from only a **** whould show her thigh.

MOO
Precisely. Not only that but only men drink. Proper women don't which is why almost all have drivers licenses (as I was advised by my Sikh East Indian friend). That way the men can drink to their heart's content and the women will drive them home.

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Where Deepak and Satish come from only a **** whould show her thigh.

MOO

Then they must be SHOCKED every day of their lives, now that they are living on an *island paradise", they see much more than "thigh" every day all day long.

That island is covered with sl*ts. :eek:

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


Then they must be SHOCKED every day of their lives, now that they are living on an *island paradise", they see much more than "thigh" every day all day long.

That island is covered with sl*ts. :eek: Yes.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

nonsluts (http://www.sr.bahai.org/pictures_en.html)

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
nonsluts (http://www.sr.bahai.org/pictures_en.html)

Oh Dear, a couple of women in one picture were wearing halter tops. Is that ok as long as you don't show thigh ?

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


Oh Dear, a couple of women in one picture were wearing halter tops. Is that ok as long as you don't show thigh ? Yes, you could even go topless.

MOO

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


You're exactly right with this, WD. So many people would have to be involved in WHAT ???? As someone has mentioned before .... ALL of this would have to have been pre-arranged .... someone on computers .... someone on cell phones. WHAT were they pre-arranging??

NONE of that makes any sense to me.

JMO


For some the evidence doesn't matter. They would rather weave a complicated theory around what they want to think happened that night. So why not open their minds to the possibility that whatever happened to Natalee may have been an accidental drowning or at the hands of someone not known to anyone in this case.

We all know women are kidnapped and sold into sex rings. Why is it so hard to think that could be what happened? The location is close to countries where sex slave rings operate, the island was crawling with people from other contries that night with the concert. There is not one iota of evidence anywhere on that island that Natalee died there.

Instead some want the focus to remain on boys that at this point probably are innocent and made a bad decision and lied that night. And we all know that some people continue to lie after being caught in a lie. And to keep the focus on those boys they use statements the boys made while proclaiming them liars.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Watership Down



For some the evidence doesn't matter. They would rather weave a complicated theory around what they want to think happened that night. So why not open their minds to the possibility that whatever happened to Natalee may have been an accidental drowning or at the hands of someone not known to anyone in this case.

We all know women are kidnapped and sold into sex rings. Why is it so hard to think that could be what happened? The location is close to countries where sex slave rings operate, the island was crawling with people from other contries that night with the concert. There is not one iota of evidence anywhere on that island that Natalee died there.

Instead some want the focus to remain on boys that at this point probably are innocent and made a bad decision and lied that night. And we all know that some people continue to lie after being caught in a lie. And to keep the focus on those boys they use statements the boys made while proclaiming them liars.

I agree, WD. For some, it appears lack of evidence doesn't matter.

That's a great point you made though .... Some are relying on "statements" appearing on the internet. I'm still trying to figure out, even if they DO rely on these statements .... there was no evidence of any crime!!! They point to the "statements" as gospel, and in the other breath will say they don't believe a word they ((or I should say, Joran)) says. All of a sudden now, the Kalpoe Brothers are a paragon of virtue.

ETA .... I'm wondering now, if some still think "gang-rape" was involved??

JMO

[feelings]

Originally posted by Heyes


So, as a female, you realize that by picking apart what Natalee wore or what she drank, ( by the by, how much she drank and the belly shot is still in question.) is placing blame on the victim. As a female you should be very aware of the "blame the victim" mindset that woman have been fighting against forever. There are 3 young men that took advantage of a young lady. Deepak even thought he had her pegged by what she was wearing. To him and I would assume his brother and joran, Natalee "looked and dressed like a slu*. Therefore she was fair game. That is an attitude that needs to be stamped out in this world. It stems from ignorance.What we have witnessed by a handful of posters on this board has been enlightening in a sad way. I had hoped that we had come farther along than this. We all know that 3 guys took natalee with them for one reason and it wasn't to sight see.
I agree with you. I think this is discrimination. Stereotyping. Something Americans are supposed to stand up against. I have often thought maybe that ´s what Natalee did. Maybe that´s how she got into trouble. IMO

[cassidy]

Originally posted by Heyes


So, as a female, you realize that by picking apart what Natalee wore or what she drank, ( by the by, how much she drank and the belly shot is still in question.) is placing blame on the victim. As a female you should be very aware of the "blame the victim" mindset that woman have been fighting against forever. There are 3 young men that took advantage of a young lady. Deepak even thought he had her pegged by what she was wearing. To him and I would assume his brother and joran, Natalee "looked and dressed like a slu*. Therefore she was fair game. That is an attitude that needs to be stamped out in this world. It stems from ignorance.What we have witnessed by a handful of posters on this board has been enlightening in a sad way. I had hoped that we had come farther along than this. We all know that 3 guys took natalee with them for one reason and it wasn't to sight see.

You totally misunderstood the entire point of my post. I don't think what one is wearing, or drinking or how one acts makes one "fair game". I think everyone should be able to wear what they want, go out at nite or in the daytime, walk to a friends house, dance on a bar and return safely to their own beds at nite. Unfortunately that is NOT they way it happens in the real world. There are crazies out there who make that impossible and dangerous. We caution our kids to be careful and stay in groups at nite, I caution my Mom to lock her doors when driving alone. It's called being careful. It's called not putting oneself in the path of danger. It's NOT called blaming the victim if something bad happens.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Really? You really think you made a point.

Sorry, as usual you're wrong.

You've set yourself up as the moral authority on this board, so answer the question. Why would a woman dress like a ****.
What's her motivation?

What reaction should she expect?

With the outfits the girls are wearing now days, what do you consider dressing like a ****????? I'm not a moral authority by any means but your attitude towards woman and how they dress is offensive. As usual your obviously so judgmental you have no idea what I'm talking about.

Perhaps you don't like women unless they are in a turtleneck???? Or, maybe you just don't like women. :shrug:

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by Heyes


With the outfits the girls are wearing now days, what do you consider dressing like a ****????? I'm not a moral authority by any means but your attitude towards woman and how they dress is offensive. As usual your obviously so judgmental you have no idea what I'm talking about.

Perhaps you don't like women unless they are in a turtleneck???? Or, maybe you just don't like women.
A lot of people often have problems understanding what you're talking about.

Instead of pontificating, why don't you get off your soap box and answer the question?

[Heyes]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


No Nic .... I, for one, think Natalee was dressed appropriately.

Your second paragraph is just silly, No Nic. I agree with you .... why even discuss it ?? Heyes was the one who began the discussion about "slu*s", and what Natalee was wearing.

Now .... to get back to the case, as you say. Can I assume you don't have a problem with Heyes' post .... when she says "we all know these 3 boys took advantage of her"?? As I said, in my response to Heyes .... I DON'T know that.

You want to discuss the case as long as Joran et al are blamed for Natalee's disappearance. You want to discuss the case, as long as subjects YOU don't think are appropriate are not discussed. You want to discuss the case, as long as Beth is not mentioned ((in a derogatory manner)).

No Nic .... that's not "discussion/debate". That's allowing one opinion only, and there are sites which are geared for exactly that.

JMO


Amazingly fair you are right about one thing. There are lots of sites that think joran is guilty.
We believe joran is guilty as he))! sorry. We also believe he picked Natalee to take avantage of her. We also have the right to express that here on this board. You really shouldn't get too bent about it. ya know!

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Chocoholic


Dressing like a sl*t is all in the eyes of the person observing the woman that is dressed in such a manner.

From a North American point of view she may not have been dressed like a sl*t, however, with an East Indian background such as the Kalpoes, one could easily see that comparing western and eastern "dress codes" she didn't dress or behave modestly by middle eastern standards.

She dressed fine for aruba, so what's the point here???
Deepak needs a class on how to respect woman, obviously his mama didn't teach him that.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by No Nic


Then they must be SHOCKED every day of their lives, now that they are living on an *island paradise", they see much more than "thigh" every day all day long.

That island is covered with sl*ts. :eek:


LMAO!

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Heyes


She dressed fine for aruba, so what's the point here???
Deepak needs a class on how to respect woman, obviously his mama didn't teach him that.



Who knows what the point is. You are the one who brought how someone dressed into the conversation.



Heyes
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2006
Location: all posts are my own opinion
Posts: 1208

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by cassidy


No it shouldn't matter and in a perfect world it wouldn't matter. But the world we live in isn't perfect and I think we all know that. Dancing naked on a bar while drinking a bottle of vodka can draw unwanted attention and result in negative consequences. As a female, I have the right to walk down any street in the country at any time of day or nite. But I know that walking alone at 3 AM ups my risk factor of a crime occurring dramatically. That's NOT blaming the victim, that's a sad simple fact of life as we know it.
And you are correct, she shouldn't have disappeared off the face of the earth, but it appears that she has and blame for that has yet to be proven.

IMO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So, as a female, you realize that by picking apart what Natalee wore or what she drank, ( by the by, how much she drank and the belly shot is still in question.) is placing blame on the victim. As a female you should be very aware of the "blame the victim" mindset that woman have been fighting against forever. There are 3 young men that took advantage of a young lady. Deepak even thought he had her pegged by what she was wearing. To him and I would assume his brother and joran, Natalee "looked and dressed like a slu*. Therefore she was fair game. That is an attitude that needs to be stamped out in this world. It stems from ignorance.What we have witnessed by a handful of posters on this board has been enlightening in a sad way. I had hoped that we had come farther along than this. We all know that 3 guys took natalee with them for one reason and it wasn't to sight see.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

A lot of people often have problems understanding what you're talking about.

Instead of pontificating, why don't you get off your soap box and answer the question?

Uh Gregor, your the only one here who seems to have a problem understanding my post.
I must have struck a nerve.
Do you like women?

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Watership Down




Who knows what the point is. You are the one who brought how someone dressed into the conversation.



Heyes
Senior Member

Registered: Apr 2006
Location: all posts are my own opinion
Posts: 1208

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by cassidy


No it shouldn't matter and in a perfect world it wouldn't matter. But the world we live in isn't perfect and I think we all know that. Dancing naked on a bar while drinking a bottle of vodka can draw unwanted attention and result in negative consequences. As a female, I have the right to walk down any street in the country at any time of day or nite. But I know that walking alone at 3 AM ups my risk factor of a crime occurring dramatically. That's NOT blaming the victim, that's a sad simple fact of life as we know it.
And you are correct, she shouldn't have disappeared off the face of the earth, but it appears that she has and blame for that has yet to be proven.

IMO
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So, as a female, you realize that by picking apart what Natalee wore or what she drank, ( by the by, how much she drank and the belly shot is still in question.) is placing blame on the victim. As a female you should be very aware of the "blame the victim" mindset that woman have been fighting against forever. There are 3 young men that took advantage of a young lady. Deepak even thought he had her pegged by what she was wearing. To him and I would assume his brother and joran, Natalee "looked and dressed like a slu*. Therefore she was fair game. That is an attitude that needs to be stamped out in this world. It stems from ignorance.What we have witnessed by a handful of posters on this board has been enlightening in a sad way. I had hoped that we had come farther along than this. We all know that 3 guys took natalee with them for one reason and it wasn't to sight see.


I also mentioned the fact that Natalee's drinking and the belly shot is thrown out there by some posters in such a fashion that leads the reader thinking that the poster is blaming Natalee for her own fate.
Lots of judgements on Natalee when noone here knows how much she actually drank or if the belly shot is true.
As far as what happened that night, I have to agree with tree. Show me one piece of evidence that Natalee was anywhere but with joran. That is the fact we do know. Joran was the last person seen with her. Couple that with the lies of all the guys and the whole run away thing or slave theory just doesn't add up.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Heyes



I also mentioned the fact that Natalee's drinking and the belly shot is thrown out there by some posters in such a fashion that leads the reader thinking that the poster is blaming Natalee for her own fate.
Lots of judgements on Natalee when noone here knows how much she actually drank or if the belly shot is true.
As far as what happened that night, I have to agree with tree. Show me one piece of evidence that Natalee was anywhere but with joran. That is the fact we do know. Joran was the last person seen with her. Couple that with the lies of all the guys and the whole run away thing or slave theory just doesn't add up.


No one except for Natalee is to blame for her drinking. If the belly shot is true again no one is to blame for it except her. No one forced her to drink or do a belly shot. But the point remains....you brought up how she was dressed and I have never seen anyone post here about her clothing choice being slutty.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Heyes



Amazingly fair you are right about one thing. There are lots of sites that think joran is guilty.
We believe joran is guilty as he))! sorry. We also believe he picked Natalee to take avantage of her. We also have the right to express that here on this board. You really shouldn't get too bent about it. ya know!

Ahhh, Heyes .... I don't get bent about it at all. You are perfectly entitled to feel Joran is guilty .... Just remember, I'm entitled to MY opinion also, without being told I'm "blaming the victim" or "bashing her Mother". No one has ever said you DON'T have the right to express your opinion. Just give ME that same right ....

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Heyes



Amazingly fair you are right about one thing. There are lots of sites that think joran is guilty.
We believe joran is guilty as he))! sorry. We also believe he picked Natalee to take avantage of her. We also have the right to express that here on this board. You really shouldn't get too bent about it. ya know!

I meant to ask you, by the way .... who are you referring to by "we"??

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


I meant to ask you, by the way .... who are you referring to by "we"??



A mouse in his pocket? :biggrin:

[Chocoholic]

Originally posted by Heyes


She dressed fine for aruba, so what's the point here???
Deepak needs a class on how to respect woman, obviously his mama didn't teach him that.

You proclaim to know how Deepak respects women? That's quite the leap!

One thing is for sure. Deepak's mother isn't dressed like an 16 year old.

[SlickLime]

Originally posted by treetime


thats what my BOSS said 5 years ago when i threw my keys on his desk and i said. "IM DONE today haeva nice day"


he calls me every other month wants me to come back and i pretend to be an answerign machine and ignore him

:biggrin:

Hi Tree. Got any interesting experiments going on to solve Natalee's disposition?

[SlickLime]

Originally posted by Heyes

It shouldn't matter is she drank a bottle of vodka, while dancing naked on the bar. She shouldn't have disappeared off the face of the earth after being seen leaving with 3 local guys! Put the blame where it belongs!

First we need to establish there is blame to be placed.

Joran was incarcerated and interrogated for 3 months. IMO, the official file has every second of that time documented for J2K. There was nothing to charge and hold them further.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by Heyes


Uh Gregor, your the only one here who seems to have a problem understanding my post.
I must have struck a nerve.
Do you like women?
I absolutely adore women, but that has nothing to do with the fact that I respect the right of other cultures to set whatever standards they choose for acceptable social conduct.

That being said, the questions remain. Why do some women dress like sluts, and when they do, what reaction should they expect?

[julianella]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I absolutely adore women, but that has nothing to do with the fact that I respect the right of other cultures to set whatever standards they choose for acceptable social conduct.

That being said, the questions remain. Why do some women dress like sluts, and when they do, what reaction should they expect?

I will take a shot at this question. I think if a woman walks around with certain parts of her body exposed, that are supposed to be left for the imagination, then I think they are looking for attention. I am not talking about bikinis, or belly shirts. People dress how they are comfortable I suppose. I do think it is shocking to see some much younger girls wearing less and less these days.

I really don't know what they would "expect", honestly. But what Natalee was wearing by anymeans to me was not revealing. I have seen much worse.

And if this topic stems from Deepak commneting Natalee dressed like a s--t well I mest say this, he lives on Aruba, surly he cannot think ever Aruba girl or Tourists dressed like a ****? I mean I even remember a certain mother wearing a see through shirt, which was worse to me then a halter top, or skirt?

imo

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
Joran is the last KNOWN to have been with Natalee.

Show me one piece of evidence that Natalee was kidnapped, raped and murdered. The fact is, there isn't any, but that sure doesn't prevent folks as yourself from saying that's what happened.

Dr Phil, with Beth as his GUEST, put the sex slave theory in the public arena. Even got a boost with Beth saying she got a phone mail from Natalee. Or was that, like the Skeeter tape, just a ratings ploy?

AE .... Good to see you ....

I keep asking that same thing .... for the EVIDENCE that shows Natalee was kidnapped, raped and murdered by Joran ((it seems to be Joran specifically now)). I've been asking for this for a long time. The only answer I get is that they lied!! Yet, some SAY there is "lots of evidence" ....

:shrug:

JMO

[julianella]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


AE .... Good to see you ....

I keep asking that same thing .... for the EVIDENCE that shows Natalee was kidnapped, raped and murdered by Joran ((it seems to be Joran specifically now)). I've been asking for this for a long time. The only answer I get is that they lied!! Yet, some SAY there is "lots of evidence" ....

:shrug:

JMO

I think some at least I know for me, the lies and the reasoning or motives behind them are I guess what I would call "circumstantial" evidence.

See The reasoning behind them make no sense at all. And the fact that someone is still lying really makes no sense. They were the last known to have spoken, seen, or heard Natalee alive. Why would they lie?
First it happens all the time in Aruba? So why lie, then what was there to fear?
Then once arrested why keep up the lies?
Why the Pact?
Why can't they really say and show how Joran got home? Did Joran go home?
Those are just examples of some important unanswered questions if you ask me.
I see no reason why people who have nothing to fear, nothing to hide and left Natalee fine and dandy why did they go through all the trouble to cover it up?

imp

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by julianella


I will take a shot at this question. I think if a woman walks around with certain parts of her body exposed, that are supposed to be left for the imagination, then I think they are looking for attention. I am not talking about bikinis, or belly shirts. People dress how they are comfortable I suppose. I do think it is shocking to see some much younger girls wearing less and less these days.

I really don't know what they would "expect", honestly. But what Natalee was wearing by anymeans to me was not revealing. I have seen much worse.

And if this topic stems from Deepak commneting Natalee dressed like a s--t well I mest say this, he lives on Aruba, surly he cannot think ever Aruba girl or Tourists dressed like a ****? I mean I even remember a certain mother wearing a see through shirt, which was worse to me then a halter top, or skirt?

imo
I don't have a problem with how Natalee was dressed, Heyes tried to make it an issue.

My best guess is she is accusing Deepak of being involved in Natalee's disappearance because he seems to have thought Natalee was dressed inappropriately.

Since the only thing we ever heard Deepak say was on a doctored tape, none of us really know what he said, or thought.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Alter Ego


You seem to be lost - this is the Natalee HOLLOWAY case. you know, the case with no declared victim. The case with no evidence of a crime.

If you are going to make such huge leaps and bounds, at least TRY to stick with facts and refrain from trying to turn this board into your personal soap box.

GREAT point, AE. It's one thing to express your opinion, but quite another to determine what Deepak thought, therefore it must have been what Satish and Joran thought. How could Heyes POSSIBLY know this?? The phrase that really bothers me in Heyes' post is the .... "we all know ......... I, like you, take it that Heyes is speaking for me, and that is NOT the case.

JMO

[court~critic1®]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


AE .... Good to see you ....

I keep asking that same thing .... for the EVIDENCE that shows Natalee was kidnapped, raped and murdered by Joran ((it seems to be Joran specifically now)). I've been asking for this for a long time. The only answer I get is that they lied!! Yet, some SAY there is "lots of evidence" ....

:shrug:

JMO



GM fm......I concur......many, many people are waiting for the same thing.........evidence of any kind would help....not just words from a journal , or a speech to garner monies. I personally have not seen any "lots of evidence". I also wish they(meaning the people that say this) would produce an iota of evidence, or where it can be found.


safe one!

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I don't have a problem with how Natalee was dressed, Heyes tried to make it an issue.

My best guess is she is accusing Deepak of being involved in Natalee's disappearance because he seems to have thought Natalee was dressed inappropriately.

Since the only thing we ever heard Deepak say was on a doctored tape, none of us really know what he said, or thought.

Now .... THAT is a great point. I wonder if anything else, other than the denial turned into an admission, was altered on that tape?? WHAT a farce ....

JMO

[julianella]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I don't have a problem with how Natalee was dressed, Heyes tried to make it an issue.

My best guess is she is accusing Deepak of being involved in Natalee's disappearance because he seems to have thought Natalee was dressed inappropriately.

Since the only thing we ever heard Deepak say was on a doctored tape, none of us really know what he said, or thought.

Ok!

Well I can say the Skeeters tape to me has nothing to do whith why I feel Deepak is involved. imo

[julianella]

Originally posted by Alter Ego

Since there is no evidence of a crime, the lies were obviously not to cover any crime and therefore are irrelevant.

So you really think the lies of the LAST KNOWN PEOPLE to be with a girl who was fine the ENTIRE TRIP until she left with those three are irrelevant... LOL I hope that is truly a joke!

They are extremely relevant! People lie for a reason, so what reason would they have to lie? What reason do they have to fear?

Don't want to take a shot at any of my questions?

That is interesting! imo

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by julianella


I think some at least I know for me, the lies and the reasoning or motives behind them are I guess what I would call "circumstantial" evidence.

See The reasoning behind them make no sense at all. And the fact that someone is still lying really makes no sense. They were the last known to have spoken, seen, or heard Natalee alive. Why would they lie?
First it happens all the time in Aruba? So why lie, then what was there to fear?
Then once arrested why keep up the lies?
Why the Pact?
Why can't they really say and show how Joran got home? Did Joran go home?
Those are just examples of some important unanswered questions if you ask me.
I see no reason why people who have nothing to fear, nothing to hide and left Natalee fine and dandy why did they go through all the trouble to cover it up?

imp

Well, good morning julia .... You were missed last week.

I know how you feel about the lies, and I don't know any other way to say it, other than to say I've forced myself to get PAST the lies. I'm not saying they were never an issue for me, because they were .... AT ONE TIME. You seem sure someone is STILL lying. The way I look at it is .... they were incarcerated for months .... they were interrogated .... witnesses were questioned, and proved NOT credible, then they were released!! So much time has gone by, and if they were in any way respoonsible for Natalee's disappearance .... I think that would have been proven, by now. There's no evidence of a crime!!

JMO

[julianella]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
Now had Anita's shirt been one like Madonna wore in one of her phases, you MIGHT have a point. I happen to think a 40 something woman wearing hip hugger jeans to meet with the head of her state is worse than a blouse a mom wears around the house made of a thin gause-like material.

I guess it is a matter of opinion. I see nothing "cute" about a see through shirt period. Somethings are supposed to be left to the imagination! IMO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by julianella


Ok!

Well I can say the Skeeters tape to me has nothing to do whith why I feel Deepak is involved. imo

julia .... Now, that's interesting .... Does the fact the DFI determined that tape was changed , specifically changing Deepak's denial of them all having sex with her, to an admission. Does that bother you at all??

I know, for me at least, that was a HUGE factor. As far as I'm concerned .... SOMEONE .... tampered with that tape in order to "manufacture" evidence.

I'm curious how you feel about that.

JMO

[julianella]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Well, good morning julia .... You were missed last week.

I know how you feel about the lies, and I don't know any other way to say it, other than to say I've forced myself to get PAST the lies. I'm not saying they were never an issue for me, because they were .... AT ONE TIME. You seem sure someone is STILL lying. The way I look at it is .... they were incarcerated for months .... they were interrogated .... witnesses were questioned, and proved NOT credible, then they were released!! So much time has gone by, and if they were in any way respoonsible for Natalee's disappearance .... I think that would have been proven, by now. There's no evidence of a crime!!

JMO

Thank you Fair I was sicker then a dog! I hate these changing seasons!

Anywhoo

I cannot get past the lies, I have tried, but to me it seems like they point to something, if not involvement then I think knowledge!

I think it was easy to beat interrogations, when the "evidence" that you knew of has been moved!

I personally believe as Dave does, that Natalee's body was moved, and I also think it was a shock to certain "suspects" that is why the "non confession" confession was taken back. If the suspect no longer knows where the body is, then hey really why confess?

I do think some is lying, Joran's way home is still up in the air, and for the life of me I cannot see why? Why should something so "unimportant" as some call it be so twisted?

imo

[MJTenn]

Originally posted by Devotion


:read: imo I AGREE
Is there an estimate of how many people (# please)were awake, moving around the hotels, sitting around on boats, fishing, swimming, in the Casino's & on the beach after the concert that night around 1:00??jmo

Hey everyone,

Haven't been here in a long time. Good to "see" you all.

Lately I've been re-reading much of the very early information--some of which I had saved on my computer and not looked at again till now. It is really, really interesting to look at this old info, in view of all that has transpired in the months since.

Ppl talk about the "grain of truth" in everything that is said. I'm keeping this in mind reading the old interviews, thinking that maybe some of the REAL truths are in these somewhere.

But anyway, in response to the question above: Alana Jordan, posting as "Dash", stated numerous times that there were "at least 100" of the students in and around the Holiday Inn pool area" on the night of Natalee's disappearance. Alana also posts that J2K's FIRST statements say that they dropped her off in the pool area, where (per Alana, I don't know this to be a fact) there are no cameras.

MJ (MOO)

[julianella]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


julia .... Now, that's interesting .... Does the fact the DFI determined that tape was changed , specifically changing Deepak's denial of them all having sex with her, to an admission. Does that bother you at all??

I know, for me at least, that was a HUGE factor. As far as I'm concerned .... SOMEONE .... tampered with that tape in order to "manufacture" evidence.

I'm curious how you feel about that.

JMO

I think Skeeters altering the tape is bothersome. I think it is sad that people would latch onto a case like this and make a mockery of this families persuite for justice!

But what interests me is why hasn't Deepak sued? Wouldn't you think he would want to fight Skeeters, and Dr Phil? I would!

I think Skeeters Tampered with the tape, He had the hard drive, and he IMO was looking for his 15 mins! IMO

[julianella]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
Who is of the opinion something was 'cute'? And since there was a bra being worn, exactly what is so revealing? That she wore a bra? :confused:

And you do not think that was the least bit tacky? I personally found it revolting. And FYI If Madonna was wearing the same thing I would feel the same!

imo

[julianella]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
The confession was not retracted, the REPORT of one was.

Exactly who is doing all the dead body movement?

Dave said he was called and told of the confession and that he was on his way to meet with the ALE and the "suspect" that confessed and they were going to be led to a body! Funny the ALE told Dave this, and there was a public release of this information and then all of a sudden they say never mind, whoopsy....

Come on! Why would they call Dave with that, and not be sure? Why would they call Dave and tell him that if it did not happen?

I do not know who is moving the body, maybe that was the "jackpot" Joran said Deepak had for him! imo

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by julianella


Thank you Fair I was sicker then a dog! I hate these changing seasons!

Anywhoo

I cannot get past the lies, I have tried, but to me it seems like they point to something, if not involvement then I think knowledge!

I think it was easy to beat interrogations, when the "evidence" that you knew of has been moved!

I personally believe as Dave does, that Natalee's body was moved, and I also think it was a shock to certain "suspects" that is why the "non confession" confession was taken back. If the suspect no longer knows where the body is, then hey really why confess?

I do think some is lying, Joran's way home is still up in the air, and for the life of me I cannot see why? Why should something so "unimportant" as some call it be so twisted?

imo

Glad you're feeling better.

I don't believe there WAS a confession .... I believe there was an erroneous REPORT of a confession.

The way you talk about Natalee's body being moved .... How many people do you think were INVOLVED in all of this?? IF that were the case .... wouldn't someone have to have been aware that Natalee was going to be murdered?? Don't you think, the more people involved in this .... the greater the chances of SOMEONE talking??

JMO

[julianella]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
I'm not going to judge another culture that I know next to nothing to about.

I found a 40-something American mom wearing hip huggers to meet the head of her state to be the definition of tacky and revolting.


Was she covered? Were her panties hanging out? Hip huggers are jeans right?

I never new there was a culture where a woman wears see through clothing?

I think it is tacky an extremely unflattering.. That is JMO!

[julianella]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
How do you know Deepak hasn't sued? How do you know he's not in settlement negotiations?

You think this is something that would be a hush hush? I don't! imo

[julianella]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Glad you're feeling better.

I don't believe there WAS a confession .... I believe there was an erroneous REPORT of a confession.

The way you talk about Natalee's body being moved .... How many people do you think were INVOLVED in all of this?? IF that were the case .... wouldn't someone have to have been aware that Natalee was going to be murdered?? Don't you think, the more people involved in this .... the greater the chances of SOMEONE talking??

JMO

I think there were a few involved. I think that is why there have been so many arrests!

I also htink those that have worked the law, and know the law can beat the law! imo

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by MJTenn


Hey everyone,

Haven't been here in a long time. Good to "see" you all.

Lately I've been re-reading much of the very early information--some of which I had saved on my computer and not looked at again till now. It is really, really interesting to look at this old info, in view of all that has transpired in the months since.

Ppl talk about the "grain of truth" in everything that is said. I'm keeping this in mind reading the old interviews, thinking that maybe some of the REAL truths are in these somewhere.

But anyway, in response to the question above: Alana Jordan, posting as "Dash", stated numerous times that there were "at least 100" of the students in and around the Holiday Inn pool area" on the night of Natalee's disappearance. Alana also posts that J2K's FIRST statements say that they dropped her off in the pool area, where (per Alana, I don't know this to be a fact) there are no cameras.

MJ (MOO)

OMG MJ .... I just fell off my chair !!!! GREAT to see you.

[julianella]

Originally posted by Alter Ego


Dave said. Uh Huh. A Twitty said what was being told in the media was a far far cry from what the Family was being told by authorities. Now why would a family member say that?

Why were the miner families told their loved ones were alive if they weren't ?

Moving a body is a jackpot? And who moved it and why isn't there any evidence of it?

I am not saying it was a "jackpot" I am sayin gperhaps that was Deepaks, "jackpot" to Joran...

I think Dompig said there was evidence of it? On AMW?

I do not think the ALE was telling the Family everything.

As far as the miners, That was rush judgement, not during interrogations, totally different!

imo

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by julianella


I think Skeeters altering the tape is bothersome. I think it is sad that people would latch onto a case like this and make a mockery of this families persuite for justice!

But what interests me is why hasn't Deepak sued? Wouldn't you think he would want to fight Skeeters, and Dr Phil? I would!

I think Skeeters Tampered with the tape, He had the hard drive, and he IMO was looking for his 15 mins! IMO

Now wait, julia .... I definitely agree with you that SOMEONE altered this tape. MY question is .... who knew it was being altered??

I can remember Beth appearing almost NIGHTLY on TV, at that time .... talking about this tape. I remember her saying they had a tape, and it was being "worked on". I REMEMBER this so well, because I remember thinking .... "who needs to WORK on a tape"?? Believe it or not, my first thought was .... are they ALTERING this tape??

Now, I remember AFTER the tape was determined to have been altered .... Beth was now talking about how she couldn't imagine why everyone was focused on 10 seconds of tape!! She had been TALKING about this for weeks .... talking about "evidence that was going to break this case wide open" . All of a sudden now, this tape was pushed under the rug, because it was KNOWN that it had been changed.

The question I have is .... did BETH know this tape was being changed, when it was being "worked on"??

JMO

[MJTenn]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
I think she did. It was her 'proof' of gang rape. And instead of being rightfully appalled that someone would fabricate a confession and dupe her, she just shrugged it off.

I don't think she knew prior. Because, think about it...Skeeters would have to tell her what he'd done. If you're gonna "funny it up", not smart to tell ANYONE. (Not that I give Skeeters credit for being particularly 'smart', but still I think he'd know that basic principle of crookedness.)

And BHT, obviously, has gone on TV and told a LOT. How would Skeeters know she wouldn't turn on him at some point?

As was the case with many, BHT might have taken a while to believe that the tape had been "skeeterized."

And, she did stop talking about the tape. I haven't heard that from her in ages.

MJ (MOO)

[julianella]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Now wait, julia .... I definitely agree with you that SOMEONE altered this tape. MY question is .... who knew it was being altered??

I can remember Beth appearing almost NIGHTLY on TV, at that time .... talking about this tape. I remember her saying they had a tape, and it was being "worked on". I REMEMBER this so well, because I remember thinking .... "who needs to WORK on a tape"?? Believe it or not, my first thought was .... are they ALTERING this tape??

Now, I remember AFTER the tape was determined to have been altered .... Beth was now talking about how she couldn't imagine why everyone was focused on 10 seconds of tape!! She had been TALKING about this for weeks .... talking about "evidence that was going to break this case wide open" . All of a sudden now, this tape was pushed under the rug, because it was KNOWN that it had been changed.

The question I have is .... did BETH know this tape was being changed, when it was being "worked on"??

JMO

I think Skeeters knew it was altered, I am not sure of Dr Phil, I seriously doubt that Beth knew. I think it is a shame that people would do something like this. I think it was like I said about the 15 mins, and ratings.

I think she believed they were trying to help her, I think that when it came out it was altered, she was embarressed! It is a shame as I said someone would take advantage of a family like that! imo

[julianella]

Originally posted by MJTenn


I don't think she knew prior. Because, think about it...Skeeters would have to tell her what he'd done. If you're gonna "funny it up", not smart to tell ANYONE. (Not that I give Skeeters credit for being particularly 'smart', but still I think he'd know that basic principle of crookedness.)

And BHT, obviously, has gone on TV and told a LOT. How would Skeeters know she wouldn't turn on him at some point?

As was the case with many, BHT might have taken a while to believe that the tape had been "skeeterized."

And, she did stop talking about the tape. I haven't heard that from her in ages.

MJ (MOO)

I agree with this post. MJ! Glad to see you back.

May I ask after all this time what are your feelings on Natalee's disappearance. imo

[ebnrsg1]

Originally posted by julianella


I think Skeeters altering the tape is bothersome. I think it is sad that people would latch onto a case like this and make a mockery of this families persuite for justice!

But what interests me is why hasn't Deepak sued? Wouldn't you think he would want to fight Skeeters, and Dr Phil? I would!

I think Skeeters Tampered with the tape, He had the hard drive, and he IMO was looking for his 15 mins! IMO


Am I dreaming or did someone on the board report last week that Deepak was in negotiations to settle with Dr Phil? Could swear I read it somewhere and this is the only where I read regarding this case! Could someone confirm this or tell me once again I have gone off the deep end
thanks

[Heyes]

Originally posted by julianella


So you really think the lies of the LAST KNOWN PEOPLE to be with a girl who was fine the ENTIRE TRIP until she left with those three are irrelevant... LOL I hope that is truly a joke!

They are extremely relevant! People lie for a reason, so what reason would they have to lie? What reason do they have to fear?

Don't want to take a shot at any of my questions?

That is interesting! imo


Bingo! But but , that is not evidence to the open minded. lmao

[julianella]

Originally posted by ebnrsg1



Am I dreaming or did someone on the board report last week that Deepak was in negotiations to settle with Dr Phil? Could swear I read it somewhere and this is the only where I read regarding this case! Could someone confirm this or tell me once again I have gone off the deep end
thanks

I was not here last week, so if there is information on this a link would be greatly appreciated! imo

[Heyes]

Originally posted by julianella


I guess it is a matter of opinion. I see nothing "cute" about a see through shirt period. Somethings are supposed to be left to the imagination! IMO

No kidding! I'll give anita the benefit of the doubt here. Maybe she got dressed in the dark that day. lol

[No Nic]

Originally posted by julianella


I was not here last week, so if there is information on this a link would be greatly appreciated! imo

IMO, it is rumor and wishful thinking brought over from another board. They think they have an argument for this, because (they say) the negotiations are *secret*. LOL.

If there is anything to substantiate it, please bring it forth.
TIA

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by ebnrsg1



Am I dreaming or did someone on the board report last week that Deepak was in negotiations to settle with Dr Phil? Could swear I read it somewhere and this is the only where I read regarding this case! Could someone confirm this or tell me once again I have gone off the deep end
thanks

I hope I'm not wrong about this, but I think this is a rumor started after Dave was interviewed by Dana. Dave had mentioned that Deepak was in negotiations with a media person, or something along those lines. No details were given, some thought it might be an interview with Deepak, some thought that perhaps Deepak is suing Dr. Phil.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Alter Ego


You seem to be lost - this is the Natalee HOLLOWAY case. you know, the case with no declared victim. The case with no evidence of a crime.

If you are going to make such huge leaps and bounds, at least TRY to stick with facts and refrain from trying to turn this board into your personal soap box.

I hate to be the one to tell you but this is a crime board your posting on. If there was no crime, we wouldn't all be here. lol
no leap or bound needed. Oh or soap box. :shrug:

[Heyes]

Originally posted by julianella



Was she covered? Were her panties hanging out? Hip huggers are jeans right?

I never new there was a culture where a woman wears see through clothing?

I think it is tacky an extremely unflattering.. That is JMO!

Ahh anita can't help it. tacky is tacky.
Beth on the other hand looked great and was covered, no bra showing.
How great for her to get an invite to meet the president. I bet it was hard for her though. Bittersweet!

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Alter Ego

Oh so the recipe threads at CTV are related to some crime? Nice to know!

Huge leap and huge bound - or do you usually flat out ignore the facts and go off speculating endlessly?

:rolleyes:

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
Did she wear her hiphuggers or did she bother to dress appropriately?

eta: Anita was 'covered' too.

She was, but if she's going for the "see through" look, maybe she could get a more fashionable undergarment! :D

[julianella]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
Did she wear her hiphuggers or did she bother to dress appropriately?

eta: Anita was 'covered' too.

Hip huggers are jeans right? So really what do they show?

We all know that a SEE THROUGH Blouse shows whatever is under it, so what do hip huggers show?

IMO

[julianella]

Originally posted by SukiJane


I hope I'm not wrong about this, but I think this is a rumor started after Dave was interviewed by Dana. Dave had mentioned that Deepak was in negotiations with a media person, or something along those lines. No details were given, some thought it might be an interview with Deepak, some thought that perhaps Deepak is suing Dr. Phil.

So then there is a possibility we will finally hear Deepaks side?

imo

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Heyes


Ahh anita can't help it. tacky is tacky.
Beth on the other hand looked great and was covered, no bra showing.
How great for her to get an invite to meet the president. I bet it was hard for her though. Bittersweet!



MEOW!!

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by SukiJane


I hope I'm not wrong about this, but I think this is a rumor started after Dave was interviewed by Dana. Dave had mentioned that Deepak was in negotiations with a media person, or something along those lines. No details were given, some thought it might be an interview with Deepak, some thought that perhaps Deepak is suing Dr. Phil.



It was not a rumor started. It was me asking if it was possible that the negotiations that Dave told Dana Pretzer he had heard about could be Dr Phil negotiating with Deepak. It was a question asked.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by ebnrsg1



Am I dreaming or did someone on the board report last week that Deepak was in negotiations to settle with Dr Phil? Could swear I read it somewhere and this is the only where I read regarding this case! Could someone confirm this or tell me once again I have gone off the deep end
thanks


EB I posted about Dave saying he knew Deepak was in negotiations with someone in the media and I posed the question if it could be about the Skeeters manipulated tape.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by julianella


Hip huggers are jeans right? So really what do they show?

We all know that a SEE THROUGH Blouse shows whatever is under it, so what do hip huggers show?

IMO

lol, there is just no comparison between a pair of jeans and a see through top with a huge white bra showing. like I said tacky is tacky.
As far as Beths concerned, she looked great and has the support from people on message boards to the president. This just really bothers some. Too bad, so sad.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
LOL LOL LOL LOL


The president??? Boy I must really be behind on this case. I missed the president of the US commenting about Natalee and voicing his support of Beth!!!

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Watership Down



EB I posted about Dave saying he knew Deepak was in negotiations with someone in the media and I posed the question if it could be about the Skeeters manipulated tape.

We do know deepak was interested in going Hollywood. lol, I would seriously doubt he would sue anyone involved in this case. Although I would love to see it!

:cool: - deepaks new look. lmao

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
I didn't know asking a question was spreading a rumor!

Just as I didn't know that a crime had to have occurred for us to discuss something at CTV!



We can add one more to their list of un(in?)credible people. Dana Pretzer. The negotiations came from Dave on his show and not from another board. So do we add Dave to the list too?

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
President of Liars R Us, maybe.:tongue:


And Liars Anonymous. ;)

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
I think she did. It was her 'proof' of gang rape. And instead of being rightfully appalled that someone would fabricate a confession and dupe her, she just shrugged it off.

You see, AE .... I think you're right here.

THIS is one of the things I find so disturbing. I think she DID know .... I think she was willing to chance this tape being altered, in order to PROVE what she was saying all along about Joran et al.

I have to say this entire "tape" episode was VERY revealing to me.

JMO

[Heyes]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


LOL! Touche, Heyes! :D

So now we've progressed to the point that J2K are so not guilty to the point that now there was no crime? LOL!

imo.

I know! Now we're a recipe board here at COURT TV
I bet chef's all over the world come to court tv to get the lastest info.

Looking for a crime boad?? Oh no don't come here!

LMAO

[julianella]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
I guess that will depend if what Dave said was true and if so, exactly what Deepak is negotiating for.

Amount of money he'll get paid to talk?
Edited or unedited as Joran did?

ohh I hope it is an interview! THis could be huge! imo

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Heyes


We do know deepak was interested in going Hollywood. lol, I would seriously doubt he would sue anyone involved in this case. Although I would love to see it!

:cool: - deepaks new look. lmao


You have that mouse in your pocket again today? I've never heard a word about him wanting to go to Hollywood. Boy the claims just get more and more bizarre by the minute. I do know that he doesn't have to go to Hollywood or anywhere in the US to sue Dr Phil. The tape was made in Aruba and aired in Aruba.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by julianella


Amount of money he'll get paid to talk?
Edited or unedited as Joran did?

ohh I hope it is an interview! THis could be huge! imo

Depends who the interviewer is... it should be a cakewalk for the right person.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Watership Down



You have that mouse in your pocket again today? I've never heard a word about him wanting to go to Hollywood. Boy the claims just get more and more bizarre by the minute. I do know that he doesn't have to go to Hollywood or anywhere in the US to sue Dr Phil. The tape was made in Aruba and aired in Aruba.


Swimming pools, movie stars, lmao

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by julianella


I think Skeeters knew it was altered, I am not sure of Dr Phil, I seriously doubt that Beth knew. I think it is a shame that people would do something like this. I think it was like I said about the 15 mins, and ratings.

I think she believed they were trying to help her, I think that when it came out it was altered, she was embarressed! It is a shame as I said someone would take advantage of a family like that! imo

julia .... Why would she contine to ALLEGE "gang-rape", LONG after this tape was determined to have been altered?? Not even ALLEGE, actually ACCUSE?? The proof she THOUGHT she had, was changed!!

JMO

[julianella]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


julia .... Why would she contine to ALLEGE "gang-rape", LONG after this tape was determined to have been altered?? Not even ALLEGE, actually ACCUSE?? The proof she THOUGHT she had, was changed!!

JMO

Perhaps the tape was not her proof. Perhaps she does have something?

IMO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Heyes



Bingo! But but , that is not evidence to the open minded. lmao

Heyes .... WHAT exactly is it evidence of ??

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by Heyes


I know! Now we're a recipe board here at COURT TV
I bet chef's all over the world come to court tv to get the lastest info.

Looking for a crime boad?? Oh no don't come here!

LMAO

LOL...Last time I checked we were on the crime library message board. But hey, if anyone has a recipe to share for dinner tonight, I'm game. Better yet, if anyone wants to just go ahead and prepare it and have it sent to my house, oh let's say around 6:00, even better!

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
ANd here's something right up your alley...

GAMES! http://boards.courttv.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=144


It's a shame you don't know enough about this case to KNOW it's FACT the Prosecutor said there is no evidence of a crime.

But being on CTV message board makes it a fact there was a crime committed. LMAO


Have you read OC lately? Some of those threads even being started should be a crime.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by julianella


I agree with this post. MJ! Glad to see you back.

May I ask after all this time what are your feelings on Natalee's disappearance. imo

Do you think she knows it was altered NOW?? And, IF she does, why would she not acknowledge that??

ETA .... I mean, it's quite a serious thing to turn someone's denial into an admission ....

JMO

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
ANd here's something right up your alley...

GAMES! http://boards.courttv.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=144


It's a shame you don't know enough about this case to KNOW it's FACT the Prosecutor said there is no evidence of a crime.

But being on CTV message board makes it a fact there was a crime committed. LMAO

Oh yeah, the prosecutor. Which statement from her would you have us believe? Months of her trying to prosecute them and when released it was reported she was terribly disappointed or the one and only last statement when joran was released. that there is no evidence.

I'd say, thanks to the bungling ALE there's not enough evidence.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
And what is it evidence of?

LOL .... I posted the same thing ....

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by julianella


Amount of money he'll get paid to talk?
Edited or unedited as Joran did?

ohh I hope it is an interview! THis could be huge! imo

Real news shows never pay for interviews. That leaves a tabloid show, and by this time I doubt a Deepak interview would pay well. The media long ago dropped the Holloway story.

:)

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Heyes


lol, there is just no comparison between a pair of jeans and a see through top with a huge white bra showing. like I said tacky is tacky.
As far as Beths concerned, she looked great and has the support from people on message boards to the president. This just really bothers some. Too bad, so sad.

Heyes .... Come on!!! I personally could care less WHO Beth meets, or how she is dressed. LOL .... "Too bad, so sad" .... I have this thought in my mind of someone with their thumbs on their temples .... shaking their fingers .... and sticking out their tongue .... lolol .... I'm sorry, that vision just popped into my head.

JMO

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Hi, Un, and nice to see you!

I believe you're wrong about this......FOX would be ALL over it! :)

imo.


They haven't been "all over" the statements that were leaked and posted on the internet. :rolleyes:

[Heyes]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Hi, Un, and nice to see you!

I believe you're wrong about this......FOX would be ALL over it! :)

imo.

Greta and Geraldo would be tripping all over each other for that interview. lmao

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by julianella


Perhaps the tape was not her proof. Perhaps she does have something?

IMO

She SAID the tape was proof. You're not telling me, at THIS late date .... Beth has OTHER proof of gang-rape, julia??

JMO

[Heyes]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Kinda like Joran did when he was interviewed by the Dutch behavioral experts? You forgot the "lalalalalala" :D

imo.

Man, those interrogators are tough in aruba !:rolleyes:

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


LOL! Fedex be ok? The problem is that the only thing I make for dinner is........Reservations! <rim shot>

The lengths people go to in order to prove a "point" when they have no defense to post.

imo.




I'd say insinuating there is a crime just because something is talked about on CTV well fits the "no defense to post" category.


LMAO.

[Heyes]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MiamiNice1


I wonder if he got a lolipop when he finished, or got to get a toy out of the "treasure box?" imo. [/QUOTE


lol, If it wasn't so sad this would be a comedy show.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Watership Down



They haven't been "all over" the statements that were leaked and posted on the internet. :rolleyes:

That IS interesting, isn't it, WD?? There are so many "statements" floating around .... who would give them any credence?? I think that's a great point that no one in the media has been all over these "statements".

JMO

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Hi, Un, and nice to see you!

I believe you're wrong about this......FOX would be ALL over it! :)

imo.

Fox doesn't pay for interviews.

:)

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Watership Down





I'd say insinuating there is a crime just because something is talked about on CTV well fits the "no defense to post" category.


LMAO.

I wasn't insinuating anything. I truly believe there was a crime. Last I looked I'm not alone in my belief. I think you know that natalee's case has been considered a crime here on ctv as well as numerous other networks and newpapers. At least I hope you are aware of that. :shrug:

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
As hard as they are tripping over each other to be the first to reveal the statements?

LMAO!

So, you don't see the difference between statements that are floating around on the internet and a live interview with one of the suspects in such a high profile case as this? Greta even had Beth on because she went to Holland. I think they'd be all over deepak. Hopefully he's smart enough to have them come to him because otherwise it could be Bo greeting him at the airport.
And we( and I mean all of us), all know what happeneds when Bo shows up. lol

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
Wonder why Greta was all excited about having the 302's from the MB kiddies :read:

Greta was excited? Don't think I've ever seen her get excited about anythng. lol

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


That IS interesting, isn't it, WD?? There are so many "statements" floating around .... who would give them any credence?? I think that's a great point that no one in the media has been all over these "statements".

JMO


I know the statements, and them being posted on several boards, has been sent to the media including Greta. Funny none of the hosts think those statements deserve attention but we are all supposed to change our opinions and decide guilt because of them.

[julianella]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Do you think she knows it was altered NOW?? And, IF she does, why would she not acknowledge that??

ETA .... I mean, it's quite a serious thing to turn someone's denial into an admission ....

JMO

I don't know what she thinks fair, but assuming that she has not mentioned it in how long, it seems to me she is trying to distance herself from it.

IMO

I don't think she turned anything into anything, I think she truly believed they were "helping" her and instead they were helping themselves! imo

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by Heyes


So, you don't see the difference between statements that are floating around on the internet and a live interview with one of the suspects in such a high profile case as this? Greta even had Beth on because she went to Holland. I think they'd be all over deepak. Hopefully he's smart enough to have them come to him because otherwise it could be Bo greeting him at the airport.
And we( and I mean all of us), all know what happeneds when Bo shows up. lol

The court has ruled that the US is not the proper venue for a case involving Natalee Holloway's disappearence.

:)

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Heyes


So, you don't see the difference between statements that are floating around on the internet and a live interview with one of the suspects in such a high profile case as this? Greta even had Beth on because she went to Holland. I think they'd be all over deepak. Hopefully he's smart enough to have them come to him because otherwise it could be Bo greeting him at the airport.
And we( and I mean all of us), all know what happeneds when Bo shows up. lol


Yep we know what happens when Bo shows up. He makes an ***** out of himself and fails in provoking Joran into a fight.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


The court has ruled that the US is not the proper venue for a case involving Natalee Holloway's disappearence.

:)
Yes I know. Thank you.
But, unless Bo dogs on a leash there's no telling what he may do. :D
That guy just cracks me up.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


LOL! And Bo can make an "azz" out of himself ALL he wants - as Joe T. has said he doesn't sue his friends!! LOLOL!!

IMO!


Yeah he seems comfortable making an ***** of himself. Must be a frequent event in his life.

[julianella]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Yep we know what happens when Bo shows up. He makes an ***** out of himself and fails in provoking Joran into a fight.

Isn't Bo Joe T's friend?

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
That's your rebuttal?

I didn't know you wanted one. You wondered why greta was all excited. :rolleyes:

[Heyes]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


LOL! And Bo can make an "azz" out of himself ALL he wants - as Joe T. has said he doesn't sue his friends!! LOLOL!!

IMO!

Oh, that's right! Bwa ha ha ha ha ha

[julianella]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


LOL! And Bo can make an "azz" out of himself ALL he wants - as Joe T. has said he doesn't sue his friends!! LOLOL!!

IMO!

Sorry Miami I just saw this..lol

imo

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
What a piece of work!

Would Joran have to find a different lawyer if he wanted to sue that 'piece of work'?

[julianella]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
What a piece of work!

Joe T must think so as he is the one who said they were friends right? Isn't Joe T Jorans Lawyer?

imo

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
What a piece of work!


Certainly not worth writing home about.

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
I can't believe anyone would be proud of that thing. LMAO

Apparently Joe T is proud to have him as a friend, regardless of his treatment towards his client.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by SukiJane


Apparently Joe T is proud to have him as a friend, regardless of his treatment towards his client.


You can be friends with someone and ashamed of their actions. Joe T sure didn't sound proud of him when discussing the airport episode.

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by Watership Down



You can be friends with someone and ashamed of their actions. Joe T sure didn't sound proud of him when discussing the airport episode.

Why would Joe T. even mention they were friends if he was so ashamed of his actions?

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


So true, Suki - we as posters don't give a flying fig about Bo - it's funny that the only person to confront Joran in the manner he deserved is IMMUNE to a lawsuit by his buddy, Joe T. - Joran's own lawyer.

RICH!

imo.

So True! I would consider that a conflict of interest. jmo

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Heyes


So, you don't see the difference between statements that are floating around on the internet and a live interview with one of the suspects in such a high profile case as this? Greta even had Beth on because she went to Holland. I think they'd be all over deepak. Hopefully he's smart enough to have them come to him because otherwise it could be Bo greeting him at the airport.
And we( and I mean all of us), all know what happeneds when Bo shows up. lol

Well, yes .... I DO know what happens when Bo shows up .... he makes an ***** of himself ....

JMO

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by SukiJane


Why would Joe T. even mention they were friends if he was so ashamed of his actions?


He said it in reply to a direct question. Should he have lied about it? :rolleyes:

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Well, yes .... I DO know what happens when Bo shows up .... he makes an ***** of himself ....

JMO


That's what I said. :biggrin:

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by SukiJane


Apparently Joe T is proud to have him as a friend, regardless of his treatment towards his client.

Suki .... Does it come as a shock to you that sometimes my friends act like *****es .... lol?? I'm sure they would say the same about me . They will be my friends forever, however. I don't think it has anything to do with anything.

JMO

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1

LOL!! I sure didn't see anyone twisting JoeT.'s arm into saying on National TV that he would NOT be suing Bo - because he's a "friend." ROTFLOL!!

imo.

That poor innocent boy Joran. Didn't Bo scream out...'what did you do with body, Joran?' Then here comes the man representing loverboy, and he says well, he' my friend I'm not going to sue him, even though he accused his client of hiding a body.

jmo

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Watership Down



That's what I said. :biggrin:

I saw that, WD .... lol ((I'm catching up with the board)) ....;)

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Suki .... Does it come as a shock to you that sometimes my friends act like *****es .... lol?? I'm sure they would say the same about me . They will be my friends forever, however. I don't think it has anything to do with anything.

JMO

Maybe you should pick your friends a little more carefully. I don't have any friends that act like asses, and if I ever did, they weren't my friend for very long. jmo

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Sure makes you think about what JoeT. really thinks about Joran's innocence, doesn't it? If Joe T. really thought Joran was innocent - he'd be pretty outraged - and so would Joran come to think of it.

I mean, Bo basically accused Joran of killing Natalee on National TV by asking him that question. And Bo isn't Natalee's mother. If I were innocent, I would certainly have dropped JoeT. as my attorney - as his inaction to defend Joran speaks volumes as to what he thinks about Joran's "innocence."

Don't you love when they bring up Bo in order to mock - yet it only makes JoeT. and Joran look worse?

IMO.

It sure makes me wonder Miami. Another famous line from Joe T. was the one about the keystone cops. I will never understand that one. Why say anything really, why not just leave it as if a crime had not been committed, as some do here. jmo

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by SukiJane


Maybe you should pick your friends a little more carefully. I don't have any friends that act like asses, and if I ever did, they weren't my friend for very long. jmo


So you would stop being friends with someone who did something stupid? Wow. Must be pretty lonely.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Sure makes you think about what JoeT. really thinks about Joran's innocence, doesn't it? If Joe T. really thought Joran was innocent - he'd be pretty outraged - and so would Joran come to think of it.

I mean, Bo basically accused Joran of killing Natalee on National TV by asking him that question. And Bo isn't Natalee's mother. If I were innocent, I would certainly have dropped JoeT. as my attorney - as his inaction to defend Joran speaks volumes as to what he thinks about Joran's "innocence."

Don't you love when they bring up Bo in order to mock - yet it only makes JoeT. and Joran look worse?

IMO.


You have accused Joran of murder on a public messageboard. Should he sue you too? :rolleyes:

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
What is so tough to understand that Joe thinks Joran was focused on at the expense of other leads? What about that don't you understand? :shrug:


All of it? :shrug:

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by Watership Down



So you would stop being friends with someone who did something stupid? Wow. Must be pretty lonely.

Doing something stupid and acting like an ass are two different things in my opinion.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by SukiJane


Doing something stupid and acting like an ass are two different things in my opinion.



They aren't in mine.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Now you have crossed the line.

Link to this lie, please, or it will be reported to Freshwater. TIA.

imo.



Your posts are proof. No link needed, just reading comprehension skills. :rolleyes:

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Your lie has been reported.


You threats and whining are tiresome. :rolleyes:

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
Careful, you will get asked for a link again. You should report her for lying about you lying.



She puts imo in her posts and thinks it denotes her opinion about Joran and saves her behind but when the same thing is done to her it is lies. That should show her exactly what all of her moo'ing accomplishes.

[julianella]

Originally posted by Watership Down




She puts imo in her posts and thinks it denotes her opinion about Joran and saves her behind but when the same thing is done to her it is lies. That should show her exactly what all of her moo'ing accomplishes.

When a person asked for a link why not be a big enough person and prove your point? Instead of whinning about it? Or is it that you can't?

At least she uses the IMO!

IMO

You want to sit here and accuse and state something like it is a fact, yet when someone asks for back up? You have none? Interesting, very interesting, and you talk about credibility>?? IMO LOL

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by Alter Ego


(snipped)

And check out Watership's LOCATION - she uses IMO in addition to a couple of others.

(snipped)



How much effort does it take to type three letters at the end of a post. To me, it shows respect for other posters. In my opinion, when one doesn't do this and they rely on something in their profile it shows that they are being rebellious and going against proper ettiquette on this board.

jmo

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Watership Down



So you would stop being friends with someone who did something stupid? Wow. Must be pretty lonely.

Either that WD .... or pretty "shallow" friends .... Goodness we ALL do stupid things, at one time or another. NONE of us is perfect .... I don't THINK anyway .... :eek: Am I surrounded by PERFECT people?? !! ;)

JMO

[julianella]

Originally posted by Alter Ego


Do you honestly think Miami is now of the opinion that Joran DIDN"T murder Natalee?

And check out Watership's LOCATION - she uses IMO in addition to a couple of others.

And how often do you back your opinion and since when did Miami change her song and dance as to the fate of Natalee?

Miami states her opinions, which is what you and I do, that is what she is here to do, if water wants to state for a fact that Miami says it is factual that Natlaee was murdered by Joran and he hid the body, then Water should back up the fact, or point blank don't act like it is a fact! And opinion is not to "save her behind" it is what it is an opinion, nothing more nothing less, but there are some who like to make a mountain out of a molehill, just because they think they are being the rebel and not using the IMO in their posts, and having it in their location! I am sorry but this board if for opinions!

My OPINION is that Joran knows of and or has involvement in Natalees disappearance.... I think the discussion was on how Bo was demanding Joran to tell where the body was and that Bo was calling Joran a murderer. So I think Miami asked for a link as to where she called Joran a murderer, as, water said

"You have accused Joran of murder on a public messageboard. Should he sue you too?"

Miami asked for the link to prove she has ever called him a murderer, calling him a murderer and saying a person thinks they are involved are two different things, surly you are smart enought to know that!


IMO

[julianella]

Originally posted by SukiJane


How much effort does it take to type three letters at the end of a post. To me, it shows respect for other posters. In my opinion, when one doesn't do this and they rely on something in their profile it shows that they are being rebellious and going against proper ettiquette on this board.

jmo

Oh suki I thought the same thing, how defiant! :rolleyes:

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by Alter Ego


You might give your lecture to Heyes :read:

If IMO at the end of a post shows respect, what did your post calling Watership a coward show?

Maybe you should start cleaning up your own backyard before worrying about someone elses. jmo

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Alter Ego
Or is she now claiming she doesn't think Joran murdered Natalee :shrug:


For months she has posted that Natalee is dead, Joran is responsible and now wants to pretend offense?

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Thanks Julia!

I have NEVER stated what Watership has falsely accused me of. This is the issue - not the "IMO"-- which they are now using to backpedal away from Watership's lying accusation. We were talking about JOE T. and what HE said. Not me. Yet she attacks ME.

Her personal animosity causes her to constantly respond to me when I NEVER address her. Now she has resorted to FALSE accusations. Too bad, we've been having some nice discussion and they can't stand that.

imo.


I was making a point with my post. You jumped, as you always do, and want to claim it was an attack.

And if you don't want me responding to your posts don't post them on an open messageboard. :punch:

[julianella]

Originally posted by Watership Down



For months she has posted that Natalee is dead, Joran is responsible and now wants to pretend offense?

Has she said for a fact that Joran is a murderer? Did she EVER say Joran is a murderer? If so link it, to prove it! If not then stop saying it as fact!

OR

Did she say she feels Natalee is dead and feels Joran is responsibile, accident or on prupose, or has knowledge! There is a difference!

IMO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by SukiJane


How much effort does it take to type three letters at the end of a post. To me, it shows respect for other posters. In my opinion, when one doesn't do this and they rely on something in their profile it shows that they are being rebellious and going against proper ettiquette on this board.

jmo

Well, you know, Suki .... You and I are in agreement about something. However, SPEAKING of this IMO business .... Heyes expresses it in her/his profile .... I have never seen Heyes express it is her or his opinion in ANY post ....

JMO