Can he still be charged/accomplice/write book??

[bumblebee1]

i'm sorry if this has been discussed before but is it possible that John Karr had an accomplice? and that he was involved in the killing of JonBenet so that's why the DNA doesn't match?

or is the DA and LE convinced that JonBenet was killed by a lone individual?

[angelskye]

I agree with you, but as to what the DA believes, that hasn't been stated.

I think they're keeping Karr in the forefront, and just not letting the public know.

Lacy did say that he's going to be watched and further investigated.

[sunsplashed]

Originally posted by bumblebee1
i'm sorry if this has been discussed before but is it possible that John Karr had an accomplice? and that he was involved in the killing of JonBenet so that's why the DNA doesn't match?

or is the DA and LE convinced that JonBenet was killed by a lone individual?

My opinion of that is that Karr wasn't even involved, let alone having an accomplice.

JMO

[bullmoose]

I found it interesting during the news conference that Mary Lacy stated that Karr's family had really no record of him during the period of 12/25 and 1/03; I sort of think, like angelskye, that they are doing more checking. I think I heard on Nancy Grace the other day that they have to formally charge him within 72 hours or whatever it is, or dismiss. I think that yhet could refile if they come up with some evidence. bullmoose:confused:

[sunsplashed]

Originally posted by bullmoose
I found it interesting during the news conference that Mary Lacy stated that Karr's family had really no record of him during the period of 12/25 and 1/03; I sort of think, like angelskye, that they are doing more checking. I think I heard on Nancy Grace the other day that they have to formally charge him within 72 hours or whatever it is, or dismiss. I think that yhet could refile if they come up with some evidence. bullmoose:confused:

It's JMO, but I think Karr is out of this case. Sure, charges could be brought against him at a later date, but I don't think they will be. Not without a DNA match. They can't place him at the scene. I think the case against Karr is pretty much closed, even if not officially.

JMO

[mmerijayn]

http://www.wbir.com/news/national/story.aspx?storyid=37376


In May, his last two e-mails to Tracey, DAXIS stated he had been "with her" and that he and someone else were there and "they killed her."

[Lorakai]

I believe at one point in the news conference Mary Lacy said the word "Killers" twice. I have it recorded, if need be I can confirm.

Lorakai

[bullmoose]

To sunsplashed: I think that you are probably right, I thought he was a wacko all along; but like so many others I was hoping for a resolution to the case. :( bullmoose

[Lorakai]

Originally posted by mmerijayn
http://www.wbir.com/news/national/story.aspx?storyid=37376


In May, his last two e-mails to Tracey, DAXIS stated he had been "with her" and that he and someone else were there and "they killed her."

Some speculate that JMK has a multiple personality disorder, which could explain the woman JMK said was with him. I believe it was a woman he said in the Emails?

Otherwise a real person could have been with him, but personally I think JMK emails prove this was something special between just he and JonBenet, which leads me to believe his alter was the woman as JMK is seen on the net in photos dressed as a woman wearing makeup.

Lorakai

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by bumblebee1
i'm sorry if this has been discussed before but is it possible that John Karr had an accomplice? and that he was involved in the killing of JonBenet so that's why the DNA doesn't match?

or is the DA and LE convinced that JonBenet was killed by a lone individual?

I think this is quite possible. I wonder if Karr knew Helgoth?

There is no way to confirm JMK's whereabouts on that fateful night because he and his wife were living apart at the time.

With the above information (or lack thereof, I should say) combined with the knowledge that is likely impossible to match the DNA found on JonBenet's panties to anyone, in my mind I cannot rule out the possibility that JMK might have truly been present when JBR died.

I still can't get past the SBTC and the usual formation of the letters a, d and double ll, written in the ransom note, and being so similar to Karr's handwriting, even decades later.

IMO

[LexieRae]

Originally posted by bullmoose
I found it interesting during the news conference that Mary Lacy stated that Karr's family had really no record of him during the period of 12/25 and 1/03; I sort of think, like angelskye, that they are doing more checking. I think I heard on Nancy Grace the other day that they have to formally charge him within 72 hours or whatever it is, or dismiss. I think that yhet could refile if they come up with some evidence. bullmoose:confused:

Karr told them that his wife would not be able to give him an alibi through Jan4th, and they checked and he was very close, no one could give him an alibi through Jan2nd......(this is the way I understood Lacy) I just feel there are too many coincidences with Karr that connects him to this crime. He fits the profile, pedophile, been charged/accused with crimes on little girls before, the handwriting very close match to ransom note, the initials......:shrug:
jmo

[cantaloupe]

I could believe just about anything at this point. An accomplice makes as much sense as anything else.

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


I think this is quite possible. I wonder if Karr knew Helgoth?

There is no way to confirm JMK's whereabouts on that fateful night because he and his wife were living apart at the time.

With the above information (or lack thereof, I should say) combined with the knowledge that is likely impossible to match the DNA found on JonBenet's panties to anyone, in my mind I cannot rule out the possibility that JMK might have truly been present when JBR died.

I still can't get past the SBTC and the usual formation of the letters a, d and double ll, written in the ransom note, and being so similar to Karr's handwriting, even decades later.

IMO

Sorry to quote myself, but my last paragraph should have read:

I still can't get past the SBTC and the unusual formation of the letters a, d, and ll, written in the ransom note, and being so similar to Karr's handwriting, even decades later.

[LexieRae]

Originally posted by cantaloupe
I could believe just about anything at this point. An accomplice makes as much sense as anything else.

Karr may not want to "share" JonBenet with anyone. He seems pretty possessive of her in his e-mails, only willing to share her with Patsy. But he did alude a few times to someone else being with him. Delusional or fact? It could explain the DNA being wrong but the other things being right. If he had a 'partner', when he finds outs that Mary Lacy dismissed him and said "He is not the killer", Karr may be mad enough to reveal the WHOLE TRUTH.
just speculating!

[Scully]

No, because that would mean that he did it and I've never been convinced that he did. He just seems to be the perfect 'boogyman' in a case like this. I think everyone wants to believe someone *like* him is responsible but, I think that the person who did this is a lot closer to the Ramseys than that. JMO.

[nutmeg22]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


I think this is quite possible. I wonder if Karr knew Helgoth?

There is no way to confirm JMK's whereabouts on that fateful night because he and his wife were living apart at the time.

With the above information (or lack thereof, I should say) combined with the knowledge that is likely impossible to match the DNA found on JonBenet's panties to anyone, in my mind I cannot rule out the possibility that JMK might have truly been present when JBR died.

I still can't get past the SBTC and the usual formation of the letters a, d and double ll, written in the ransom note, and being so similar to Karr's handwriting, even decades later.

IMO

Hey Paula, Can you tell me what happened to Helgoth? Did he die? They did test his DNA and came up no match? What is the origin of the blood in JonBenet's panties? I thought they were trying to match saliva in her panties against these suspects, but they did not say where the blood came from did they? I have not kept track of this case very well. thanks

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by nutmeg22


Hey Paula, Can you tell me what happened to Helgoth? Did he die? They did test his DNA and came up no match? What is the origin of the blood in JonBenet's panties? I thought they were trying to match saliva in her panties against these suspects, but they did not say where the blood came from did they? I have not kept track of this case very well. thanks

Helgoth was found shot to death. Although it was first believed to have been a suicide, this was later ruled out due to the trajectory of the bullet and other evidence at the scene.

Since learning about Helgoth, I have held on to the possibility that he might have been involved in JonBenet's murder, and that perhaps his accomplice murdered him , fearing Helgoth might turn informant.

IMO

[nutmeg22]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Helgoth was found shot to death. Although it was first believed to have been a suicide, this was later ruled out due to the trajectory of the bullet and other evidence at the scene.

Since learning about Helgoth, I have held on to the possibility that he might have been involved in JonBenet's murder, and that perhaps his accomplice murdered him , fearing Helgoth might turn informant.

IMO

Thank you, Hey Paula, Helgoth sure sounds like he definitely could be the suspect from what I have read here.

[Mojo Bumpkin]

Originally posted by bumblebee1
i'm sorry if this has been discussed before but is it possible that John Karr had an accomplice? and that he was involved in the killing of JonBenet so that's why the DNA doesn't match?

or is the DA and LE convinced that JonBenet was killed by a lone individual?

I never thought Karr was involved in JBR's murder...although I believe as he traveled deeper into the pedophiliac world, he came across JBR's murderer.

MOO

[LexieRae]

Originally posted by Scully
No, because that would mean that he did it and I've never been convinced that he did. He just seems to be the perfect 'boogyman' in a case like this. I think everyone wants to believe someone *like* him is responsible but, I think that the person who did this is a lot closer to the Ramseys than that. JMO.

I used to think it was someone related to the housekeeper. About 3 weeks before JBR was killed, the HK had to get all of the Christmas trees out and enlisted help from her daughter and her daughter's b/f, IIRC. The Ramseys had a tree in every room. These trees were stored in the basement. I know the HK had money problems and family problems. She was living in a home that belonged to her sister (IIRC) and the sister was going to evict her for back rent. She asked Patsy to borrow $2500.00 and Patsy agreed and was going to leave it on the counter for her before they left for their trip on 12/26. I KNOW the HK was checked and re-checked...but I always wondered about her daughter and the b/f. That maybe JBR was going to be kidnapped for ransom, and killed accidently. However, the manner she was killed, clearly shows a pedophile (in my opinion and according to the experts) so unless the b/f was one, or had someone help him that was...my therory quickly went down the drain.
Anyone close to the HK, would have known things about the Ramseys....
jmo

[Julieeeee]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Helgoth was found shot to death. Although it was first believed to have been a suicide, this was later ruled out due to the trajectory of the bullet and other evidence at the scene.

Since learning about Helgoth, I have held on to the possibility that he might have been involved in JonBenet's murder, and that perhaps his accomplice murdered him , fearing Helgoth might turn informant.

IMO

That's my guess as well. I think, in a two-person scenario, Helgoth might easily have been the thug of the operation. Someone else was the brain, i'm thinking, and when it became clear that Helgoth couldn't keep his mouth shut, he was murdered.

[bullmoose]

It sure makes more sense than the theory that Patsy clubbed her like a baby seal for wetting the bed.:shrug: bullmoose

[Cotontail]

JMK wants to be known for this act all he has to do is to hand over the panties and the other rope that he had around her neck that he said he "Took" with him. He said in his emails that he used two ropes. THe one that was left around her neck when they found her was a different one then the one he used in the sexual acts. He said he kept that one. Have him turn them over to prove it.

[emdragon]

to those of you who can not accept that karr was not involved in jonbenets murder i ask you the following..

How did he know about jonbenet? she wasn't famous until AFYER her death.

There has been nothing found that connects him to the ramseys at all, or that puts him in boulder.. and while many feel that no pictures of christmas 96 proves he could have been in boulder i ask any of you with kids would you not Remember if their father was not with them for Christmas?

Nothiing has been found to put him boulder, no paper trail, hotel records nothing.

but they can put him in thialand at many different times..

the truth is this is a man who is delussional and believes he was there but he simply wasn't.

as for an accomplice well karrs e-mails discribed oral sex yet his DNA was not on the child.. that isn't possible and that is why the DA knows the man was not involved.

just face the facts..
i know people do not want to let this go, the have to believe he did it...just like my mothers friend who is positive that since karr looked like jonbenet and his first name was john as was hers he is her real father.. (had to laugh at that one)

he may be sick and he may be crazy but he didn't murder jonbenet.

[StinkyPinky]

Could he legally write a book about his ordeal?
I know in some states if you are convicted of a crime you cannot make a profit off of that crime (write a book, collect insurance, etc). But, since Karr seems to be the wrong guy for JBR's murder would there be any law prohibiting him ?
Thanks to modern technology he could do his own desk top publishing. I wouldn't personally buy a book from him, but I could understand LE and people in the medical community taking an interest in how someone like this functions.

[peachdaquari]

Originally posted by StinkyPinky
Could he legally write a book about his ordeal?
I know in some states if you are convicted of a crime you cannot make a profit off of that crime (write a book, collect insurance, etc). But, since Karr seems to be the wrong guy for JBR's murder would there be any law prohibiting him ?
Thanks to modern technology he could do his own desk top publishing. I wouldn't personally buy a book from him, but I could understand LE and people in the medical community taking an interest in how someone like this functions. yes he can , he was not convicted, even charged with this crime so he can write one and probably will, he sure marketed it didnt he

imo

[abby15]

Not sure.
Feds got rid of the "Son of Sam" laws, but I believe there are state laws prohibiting profiting from a crime (convicted people).

[abby15]

Originally posted by peachdaquari
yes he can , he was not convicted, even charged with this crime so he can write one and probably will, he sure marketed it didnt he

imo

I believe you are correct.

[StinkyPinky]

Larr in the subject line is a combination of liar and Karr.











Who am I kidding, it was a typo. Sorry!

[peachdaquari]

Originally posted by StinkyPinky
Larr in the subject line is a combination of liar and Karr.











Who am I kidding, it was a typo. Sorry! lol, it sounded good tho :lol:

[LI_Mom]

Originally posted by peachdaquari
yes he can , he was not convicted, even charged with this crime so he can write one and probably will, he sure marketed it didnt he

imo

I agree.

And he also succeeded in eclipsing Tracey.

[Regina.Lampert]

He sure can. A good title would be
"Karr Trouble."

[samsong]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert
He sure can. A good title would be
"Karr Trouble."

:biggrin:

[samsong]

Originally posted by LI_Mom


I agree.

And he also succeeded in eclipsing Tracey.

Oh, come on. I don't think we have seen the last of Tracey. :D

[bumblebee1]

Originally posted by mmerijayn
http://www.wbir.com/news/national/story.aspx?storyid=37376


In May, his last two e-mails to Tracey, DAXIS stated he had been "with her" and that he and someone else were there and "they killed her."

yeah, and on CCLive just now, she quoted one of the e-mails where Karr used the phrase "killers."

CC asked Jean C. about the possibility that Karr was referring to multiple killers of JonB and whether the DA had considered that possibility, and Jean said she "thought" that the DA thought Karr was referring to more than one killer than himself AT FIRST but realized that he meant only himself.

but but but then why would he use the plural "killers?" makes no sense.

hmmmmmm...i don't know. the whole thing is so peculiar. :shrug:

[taxicatz]

Originally posted by sunsplashed


My opinion of that is that Karr wasn't even involved, let alone having an accomplice.

JMO

DITTO:seeya:

[barskin&co.]

Who would publish it? The NAMGLA (North American Man Girl Love Association) Press? We've heard his disgusting fantasies in his emails ("I love you, JonBenet." "We were in intense lovemaking; she died by mistake," and the unforgetable "I wished I could climb into her coffin and make love to her one more time"). Oh, there's nothing stopping him from writing, but who would pay to put it into print, and who would pay to read it?

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by Regina.Lampert
He sure can. A good title would be
"Karr Trouble."

Or
"Karrnal Knowledge"

[LI_Mom]

Originally posted by samsong


Oh, come on. I don't think we have seen the last of Tracey. :D

No way! What else would Tracey do if not profit on the JB case? :tongue:

I'm sure we'll hear from Tracey, Hutchens AND Karr.

[bumblebee1]

Originally posted by LexieRae


Karr told them that his wife would not be able to give him an alibi through Jan4th, and they checked and he was very close, no one could give him an alibi through Jan2nd......(this is the way I understood Lacy) I just feel there are too many coincidences with Karr that connects him to this crime. He fits the profile, pedophile, been charged/accused with crimes on little girls before, the handwriting very close match to ransom note, the initials......:shrug:
jmo

i know...it's stuff like this that keeps me on the fence about this guy. i just think that there might be more to his connection to this crime than is known.

i am not so quick to write him off completely just because the DNA doesn't match.

[Holly]

Originally posted by StinkyPinky
Could he legally write a book about his ordeal?
I know in some states if you are convicted of a crime you cannot make a profit off of that crime (write a book, collect insurance, etc). But, since Karr seems to be the wrong guy for JBR's murder would there be any law prohibiting him ?
Thanks to modern technology he could do his own desk top publishing. I wouldn't personally buy a book from him, but I could understand LE and people in the medical community taking an interest in how someone like this functions. Ever heard of the First Amendment? Anybody can say or write almost anything (there are some exceptions--I'm sure you all know what they are; ) profitting from what they write is a different matter.

Since Karr, at this point and to my knowledge, has been convicted of nothing illegal. IMO, he can write or say whatever he pleases.

My personal opinion about his "confession" is that he wanted to get out of spending any time in a Thailand prison.

[day2day]

Originally posted by LI_Mom


No way! What else would Tracey do if not profit on the JB case? :tongue:

I'm sure we'll hear from Tracey, Hutchens AND Karr.

I think you are right! We haven't heard the last from these folks..


BTW...
Karr Trouble and Karnal Knowledge are both great titles....:read:

[Louisadelmar]

I expect the NE will be happy to publish his musings.

[samsong]

Originally posted by LI_Mom


No way! What else would Tracey do if not profit on the JB case? :tongue:

I'm sure we'll hear from Tracey, Hutchens AND Karr.

Gee, this could put a cramp in previously filmed shows that will be airing in September.

I'm sure we will hear from Hutchens when the "show" moves to California.

I'm surprised Tracey hasn't been on yet, but the week is young. :D

[$pendi]

Originally posted by LI_Mom


No way! What else would Tracey do if not profit on the JB case? :tongue:

I'm sure we'll hear from Tracey, Hutchens AND Karr.

Hutchens re-listed her journal on e-bay. This time at $199 (as opposed to the original $1499, lol).
Someone bid on it.

[day2day]

Originally posted by $pendi


Hutchens re-listed her journal on e-bay. This time at $199 (as opposed to the original $1499, lol).
Someone bid on it.

Maybe next time she will start out at $19.99 ...:D

[LI_Mom]

Originally posted by $pendi


Hutchens re-listed her journal on e-bay. This time at $199 (as opposed to the original $1499, lol).
Someone bid on it.

Ouch! lol

I bet Tracey's the one who bid on it. :biggrin:

Don't kid yourself, if that's authentic it will be a collector's item one day.

[samsong]

Originally posted by LI_Mom


Ouch! lol

I bet Tracey's the one who bid on it. :biggrin:

Don't kid yourself, if that's authentic it will be a collector's item one day.

Maybe Tracey can tape her and try to point to her as the killer. She did seem to know a lot about the crime. :D

[$pendi]

Originally posted by day2day


Maybe next time she will start out at $19.99 ...:D

Very possible! The person that bid on it, just joined yesterday and has no feedback.

And no it isn't me, lol. Even though I had joked about doing it before. :D

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by Louisadelmar
I expect the NE will be happy to publish his musings.

His extensive emails are out there and turning stomachs all over the world, already. What more could he write? He's already published his fantasy "life story," and a more sickening collection of deluded anecdotes and philosophy is rarely seen. We don't have buy the cow, the milk is free...and rancid.

[LI_Mom]

Originally posted by samsong


Maybe Tracey can tape her and try to point to her as the killer. She did seem to know a lot about the crime. :D

But won't she be taping him also? And getting ready to name him? lol

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by LI_Mom


But won't she be taping him also? And getting ready to name him? lol

Confession: I'm taping all of you, and I'm about to turn you in. :biggrin:

[samsong]

Originally posted by LI_Mom


But won't she be taping him also? And getting ready to name him? lol

Oh God, that's right. You just can't trust these people. It's as bad as everyone suing each other. :D

[LI_Mom]

Originally posted by barskin&co.


Confession: I'm taping all of you, and I'm about to turn you in. :biggrin:

LOL!!!

Uh oh. I better start looking through the old Christmas photos ASAP. ha

[samsong]

Originally posted by LI_Mom


LOL!!!

Uh oh. I better start looking through the old Christmas photos ASAP. ha

:biggrin:

[day2day]

Originally posted by barskin&co.


Confession: I'm taping all of you, and I'm about to turn you in. :biggrin:

:o :chicken:

[docg]

If the DNA were as important as everyone has been led to think, then IMO Karr's hearing would have proceeded. He certainly did mention at least one accomplice. He also said his brother was the one who connected him to the Ramseys, despite the fact that both brothers have denied any such connection. If he were telling the truth, that brother could well have been an accomplice.

So if the DNA were the major factor, and all else was on track, it's hard to see why Lacy wouldn't want to do some more DNA testing on some other folks before tossing in the towel.

What brought her case down IMO was 1. the "alibi" provided by his reluctant wife and others that placed him OUT of Boulder during the time in question, and 2. serious inconsistencies in Karr's story. For example, if he slavered all over JonBenet as much as he's claimed, there would be a whole slew of DNA evidence, not just some fragments mixed with her DNA in her blood. If he'd hoisted her up by her wrists while strangling her, there would be signs of that on her wrists. But her wrists showed no such signs. If he'd gone in down the rabbit hole (oops, window well) AND out again, as he's claimed, there would be multiple signs of that on the sill and frame, but both show NO sign of smearing or any other type of displacement. There would also be prints in the lawn area separating the grate from the walkway. But nada.

Etc. Seems like the DNA was the one final shred of hope she had before finally giving in to stark reality.

[MaryD]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Helgoth was found shot to death. Although it was first believed to have been a suicide, this was later ruled out due to the trajectory of the bullet and other evidence at the scene.

Since learning about Helgoth, I have held on to the possibility that he might have been involved in JonBenet's murder, and that perhaps his accomplice murdered him , fearing Helgoth might turn informant.

IMO

There was a guy named Kenady that was supposedly helping the police get Helgroths shoes and other evidence from Helgoths apartment, he broke in for it, I think he was arrested for the break in. There was also reportedly a tape recorder there. When he died ironically there was a stun gun next to him, could have been a set up. Maybe they should look into this guy Kenady too if in fact they didn't.

[Lorakai]

My reply to emdragon who said to those of you who can not accept that karr was not involved in jonbenets murder i ask you the following..

How did he know about jonbenet? she wasn't famous until AFYER her death.

>>> he could have scoped her out at one of the pagents, as it's not beyond the mind of a abducter to frequent places that children are. Especially in JMK's case since his facination is with little girls



There has been nothing found that connects him to the ramseys at all, or that puts him in boulder.. and while many feel that no pictures of christmas 96 proves he could have been in boulder i ask any of you with kids would you not Remember if their father was not with them for Christmas?

>>> they don't know where he was at all during that time, so they cannot say that he was or wasn't in Colorado during that time. His ex-wife cannot provide an alibi for him, and refused to legally put on paper that she was with him during that time. He did know personal facts about the Pough sisters which John Ramsey said he was "dead on" on a lot of personal family facts that could not be known.



Nothiing has been found to put him boulder, no paper trail, hotel records nothing.


>>> again,.. there is no record of him being anywhere. JMK also altered himself to look like a woman, and it is highly likely that in order to commit the crime he had stayed close by the residence to have easy access and monitor the activies. He could have been hiding in a tree in the backyard the whole time.



but they can put him in thialand at many different times..

>>> we can put JMK in many different places, the more important question is why can they not find his whereabouts during the murder, but they "can" for everything else. My theory he was in hiding, nearby the residence and may not even had a place to stay during that time. If he was unemployed, had no money to support himself, and was estranged from his wife, this could make sense. Better yet, he could have been staying with his accomplice, if there is one, and it would make sense as to why he is so untraceable at that time. JMK was known to alter into a woman, and befriend people and families as a woman named "Robin"


the truth is this is a man who is delussional and believes he was there but he simply wasn't.


>>> According to the investigators, this man has not lied about anything he has said in the emails, phone etc. regarding his personal life, and that he was not fantisizing - per the press conf. today.


as for an accomplice well karrs e-mails discribed oral sex yet his DNA was not on the child.. that isn't possible and that is why the DA knows the man was not involved.


>>> I have my theory as I have said before about the DNA, he could have preserved another persons DNA leaving it at the crime scene to mislead investigators. Also, Oral sheets can be used on the vagina, these are available everywhere, in order to prevent STD's and could have been used to block his saliva from touching.

[Lorakai]

Originally posted by bumblebee1


yeah, and on CCLive just now, she quoted one of the e-mails where Karr used the phrase "killers.

but but but then why would he use the plural "killers?" makes no sense.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lorakai
I will correct what I said about Mary Lacy using the word "Killers" twice in the conference as I took her words out of context.



*Killers could mean JMK and his accomplice, but I feel JMK would not want to share her with anyone. He was to personally and emotionally attached to her.
*Killers could mean JMK and his multiple personality if he has one, hence the ransom note "Small faction", or emails "the woman left first".

[emdragon]

karr is not the brains of any crime. He did not preserve anyone elses DNA. Sorry but i think you read to many crime stories.

they said the very fact that they can NOT put him in denver and that the families circumstancial evidence that he was in Georgia was enough coupled with the non DNA match to have all charges dropped. He simple was not in Boulder even karr can not put himself there.

for you rinformation the very fact that in the e-mail he claims oral sex and there is no DNA left behind, dental dams, please give me a break have you looked at this man? He can't think far enough ahead to get the facts right in his confession yet you think he could plant dna and us a dental dam to prevent DNA??

The pagent circut is a close net one full of cameras and video karrs face has been plastered al over if he had been hanging out at the pagents someone would now remember him.


delussional people do not lie, the BELIEVE everything that they say.
Lacy admitted they have no inside information about the crime that has NOT been made public.

I think it is simply time people face the same fact the DA has, Karr is not responsible for the murder.

[emdragon]

Originally posted by Holly
Ever heard of the First Amendment? Anybody can say or write almost anything (there are some exceptions--I'm sure you all know what they are; ) profitting from what they write is a different matter.

Since Karr, at this point and to my knowledge, has been convicted of nothing illegal. IMO, he can write or say whatever he pleases.

My personal opinion about his "confession" is that he wanted to get out of spending any time in a Thailand prison.

He was NOT charged with a crime in thialand. He was not facing time in a Thia prison.

he didn't do it for fame he BELIEVES he did it.

[Lorakai]

Originally posted by emdragon
karr is not the brains of any crime. He did not preserve anyone elses DNA. Sorry but i think you read to many crime stories.

>>> Please know my posting wasn't a mock of your post, or anything like that,.. I value everyones right to their opinion. To my knowledge Karr is very educated, and as a teacher he would have very strong personal interaction skills. He uses those skills to get close to the little girls in the classroom.

>>> No Problem, look it does sound like that huh... out of one of those "crime stories", but that still doesn't prove that he didn't do it, and why would that be so odd? This world is sick. I'm not a sleuth, just someone giving an opinion here like everyone else :rolleyes:

>>>> Crime stories on TV today help aid killers like JMK to learn about these things. There is great controversy over that today. I won't lie, I've even watched CSI, Law & Order etc. who hasn't? We watch Court TV don't we? And the DA admitting that there are no facts in the case that are not released to the public only proves that anyone can research a crime and learn about it.

they said the very fact that they can NOT put him in denver and that the families circumstancial evidence that he was in Georgia was enough coupled with the non DNA match to have all charges dropped. He simple was not in Boulder even karr can not put himself there.

>>>> Show me proof of where he was then,.. I would like to know when they interrogated him and what they asked? If I should know the answer to this, please excuse me.

for you rinformation the very fact that in the e-mail he claims oral sex and there is no DNA left behind, dental dams, please give me a break have you looked at this man? He can't think far enough ahead to get the facts right in his confession yet you think he could plant dna and us a dental dam to prevent DNA??


>>>> It's really not all that odd.


The pagent circut is a close net one full of cameras and video karrs face has been plastered al over if he had been hanging out at the pagents someone would now remember him.


>>>> Have they ruled out only a man that looks like JMK, or in my opinion a master of disguise, posing as a woman? The details JMK recalls talk of feminine things such as expensive perfume, trinkets or ornaments at Christmas JB made, JMK remembered things only a woman would pay attention too.

delussional people do not lie, the BELIEVE everything that they say. Lacy admitted they have no inside information about the crime that has NOT been made public. I think it is simply time people face the same fact the DA has, Karr is not responsible for the murder.

>>>> How about this theory,.. what if JMK has a multiple personality disorder, and of course the one entity JMK as one, kills JB when one personality, say "Robin" takes over and she actually kills JB. Then JMK comes forward mentally, Robin goes away and he sees what he has done. And the reason why the DA can't press charges is because "Robin" did it and not JMK in mind. It wreaks of the insanity plea of course.

Do I believe the theory above to be true? No. But it is plausable.

Lorakai

[LadyFisher]

Originally posted by bumblebee1


i know...it's stuff like this that keeps me on the fence about this guy. i just think that there might be more to his connection to this crime than is known.

i am not so quick to write him off completely just because the DNA doesn't match. :seeya: Hi, Bee.......I am not so quick to write this guy off...he knows toooooooo much about the murder...if he really wasn't involved...then why would he confess? I know, so many people do confess to crimes like this that are innocent....but.....if he wasn't involved he deserves the crazy of the year award anyway.....I wish this case would be solved...I think all the evidence points to an intruder...I do believe it was a crazy pedophile that did this! Good to see you again, Bee!!! :seeya:

[bumblebee1]

Originally posted by LadyFisher
:seeya: Hi, Bee.......I am not so quick to write this guy off...he knows toooooooo much about the murder...if he really wasn't involved...then why would he confess? I know, so many people do confess to crimes like this that are innocent....but.....if he wasn't involved he deserves the crazy of the year award anyway.....I wish this case would be solved...I think all the evidence points to an intruder...I do believe it was a crazy pedophile that did this! Good to see you again, Bee!!! :seeya:

hey Lady! it's great to see ya! :seeya:

ever since i heard about the theory about a porn ring possibly being involved in JonB's death, i have wondered if Karr might have had an accomplice.

i have wondered how closely the DA has looked at that angle. i mean, Karr might have had nothing to do with this crime at all, but just because the DNA rules him out, should that rule him out altogether? i'm not so sure...but only time will tell i guess.

Karr is either one of the strangest wannabe's of all time or he had something to do with poor little JonB's death, imo.

[emdragon]

Lorakai
Lacy said it clearly "this man honestly BELIEVES he killed Jonbenet" But he did NOT

as for MPD all the personalities would still have the same DNA, DNA that was 100% EXCLUDED from what was found at the crime sceen.

By te way Karr did not have a strong personality that was one reason he failed as a teacher.

[EDDIEisMINE]

I think if he knew things that only the killer could know, it is possible. Wasn't there someone who died that they thought might of been involved? Some man? You just never really know.
Maybe he killed off the other one involved. Maybe he really was in the basement when she died.

[emdragon]

Originally posted by EDDIEisMINE
I think if he knew things that only the killer could know, it is possible. Wasn't there someone who died that they thought might of been involved? Some man? You just never really know.
Maybe he killed off the other one involved. Maybe he really was in the basement when she died.

He didn't know anything that only the killer could know. Everthng he knew was public knowledge. Lacy said they have no inside information that the public doesn't already know about.

[EDDIEisMINE]

Originally posted by emdragon


He didn't know anything that only the killer could know. Everthng he knew was public knowledge. Lacy said they have no inside information that the public doesn't already know about.

Oh, okay. I thought I heard he knews specific details that hadn't been released. I did read that, but don't have the link. maybe the media got it wrong?

[emdragon]

Originally posted by EDDIEisMINE


Oh, okay. I thought I heard he knews specific details that hadn't been released. I did read that, but don't have the link. maybe the media got it wrong?

that is what was reported when he was arrested but according to the presser this morning it was not the case.

[EDDIEisMINE]

Originally posted by emdragon


that is what was reported when he was arrested but according to the presser this morning it was not the case.

Well, maybe he wasn't there. He sure wanted to be tho. I hope whoever he moves in next too watches their babies.

[darjeeling]

Originally posted by LexieRae


I used to think it was someone related to the housekeeper. About 3 weeks before JBR was killed, the HK had to get all of the Christmas trees out and enlisted help from her daughter and her daughter's b/f, IIRC. The Ramseys had a tree in every room. These trees were stored in the basement. I know the HK had money problems and family problems. She was living in a home that belonged to her sister (IIRC) and the sister was going to evict her for back rent. She asked Patsy to borrow $2500.00 and Patsy agreed and was going to leave it on the counter for her before they left for their trip on 12/26. I KNOW the HK was checked and re-checked...but I always wondered about her daughter and the b/f. That maybe JBR was going to be kidnapped for ransom, and killed accidently. However, the manner she was killed, clearly shows a pedophile (in my opinion and according to the experts) so unless the b/f was one, or had someone help him that was...my therory quickly went down the drain.
Anyone close to the HK, would have known things about the Ramseys....
jmo

Me too, I wonder about the HK angle. But not knowing enough about what other evidence there are and how thoroughly that link was investigated, I really can't say. Still, the fact that the intruder seem to know a great deal about the family and feel comfortable in the house seems to indicate someone who's been there before and had befriended JB. JMO.

[Bosox27]

I was certain Karr was the guy until i read 120 pages of the 400 pg "emails to tracy" before they were taken off the web. Then I thought he was either: a major attention seeker looking for fame and money from tracy in the form of a book or movie deal
OR all of the above.. PLUS looking for immunity from a crime that he actually committed or took part in.

These letters are evidence that he wanted to "ease the ramsey's mind that "she wasn't brutally murdered," give him some money from book deal and secure his immunity from prosecution. If he actually believed that Tracy, a famous film producer, was going to coauthor a book with him and get it published, put him in contact with mr and mrs ramsey AND never tell the police about his confession and allow him to fade into oblivion he is seriously deluded UNLESS he actually thought that was his ONLY option or hope for future survival. BC without money he could run and hide but not really live, so the contact with tracy would ensure his ability to pay for food etc.

I did not read all 400 pages and since karr was slowly revealing detailed of "that night" perhaps there is more hard evidence in those letters of his involvement, I cannot say for sure.

The bottom line is this: There is one bit of info that NO news station has covered so far and that is: In an early interview with John Ramsey YEARS AGO police asked him about a black jaguar that was spotted the night JB died and his answer below and very telling now in light of this new emergence of John Mark Karr........

We know for a fact that John Mark Karr at that time owned a BLACK JAGUAR XJ6 - same car that was spotted on Dec 25, 1996 AND... this "short," "peculiar" man that John and Patsy met shortly after JB's death in Boulder was posing as a "real estate" agent attempting to show them an apt in Patsy's best friend's mother's apt complex that he supposedly SUBLETTED or was "trying to rent." On Karr's resumes it says he worked as a REAL ESTATE AGENT.

ALSO... one other odd thing... a few days ago there was a website that told about how Karr's students would be very scarred (in the words of one of the mothers) when they would see Karrs BLACK JAGUAR parked at the school bc they knew he was subsituting that day. He was eventually fired from that school for abusing little girls. That website is now BLANK. I think and hope Lacy knows all about this and is pulling any info regarding it from web that she finds. I also hope that she went back over ALL of the old interviews etc, (bc it's very likely that with everything that's happened Mr Ramsey may have forgotten all about that encounter with this strange short peculiar real estate guy.


See also this website I found about a John Karr talking about fixing his Jaguar XJ6.

http://www.jag-lovers.org/xjlovers/xjfaq/removinghead.htm

This could be his link to Mike Helgoth IF Helgoth was involved since Karr bought old cars from salvage yards and fixed them up and resold them. Helgoth owned or worked in a SALVAGE YARD.
Maybe they met online in some website about child porn, restoring cars or buying used car and car parts.


HERE'S THE INTERVIEW WITH JOHN RAMSEY....

IN THE MATTER OF:

INTERVIEW WITH JOHN RAMSEY

TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW

VOLUME 4

PAGES 705 - 796

JUNE 25, 1998




1 FOR JOHN RAMSEY'S INTERVIEW,

2 THE FOLLOWING WERE PRESENT:

3

4

5 LOU SMIT

6 MICHAEL KANE

7 BRYAN MORGAN

8 DAVID WILLIAMS

18 LOU SMIT: Do you know anyone that

19 owns a black Jaguar?

20 JOHN RAMSEY: Late model like XJ6

21 or a later model?

22 LOU SMIT: Right.

23 JOHN RAMSEY: No. They had a

24 white one, it was kind of an unusual color,

25 gold, it wasn't green, you know (INAUDIBLE).

0711

1 But I don't remember.

2 LOU SMIT: Did they have a Jaguar

3 convertible?

4 JOHN RAMSEY: They do, yeah.

5 LOU SMIT: Do you know anyone that

6 owns a --

7 JOHN RAMSEY: Hold on, yes, I do.

8 There is a guy that had an apartment or

9 apartments in Barbara Fernie's mother's complex,

10 that we looked at renting, this was after this

11 happened, for a place to live. And he had a

12 black Jaguar I believe.

13 LOU SMIT: There was one seen in

14 the neighborhood, the Whites on that morning or

15 that evening so --

16 JOHN RAMSEY: That's the only

17 black Jaguar I have seen in Boulder. This guy's

18 got to be a short guy. He was in real estate.

19 He was an (INAUDIBLE) but just peculiar,

20 wasn't -- I mean --

21 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS.)

22 JOHN RAMSEY: No, but the Fernies

23 might, because I think they put -- I can't think

24 of the name of the apartment complex, but it's

25 where Barbara's mother had an apartment. In

0712

1 Boulder. He had to leave -- I think he had left

2 it there where he had a sublease perhaps.

3 LOU SMIT: How about anybody that

4 owns an Astro type van, do you have any friends

5 that own that or people from Access that --

6 there was an Astro type van seen in the area in

7 the report.

8 JOHN RAMSEY: What color?

9 LOU SMIT: There was no color.

10 JOHN RAMSEY: The Access had a van

11 that was a white Chrysler mini van. Astro van?

12 No, I don't.

13 LOU SMIT: Is it possible to

14 tell --

15 JOHN RAMSEY: Except it might be a

16 gray Caravan Fifth Avenue, the one going down

17 the street in 102, which would have been, could

18 have been Fleet's. He had a gray Caravan.

19 LOU SMIT: Okay. I would like to

20 talk to you about John Andrew's suitcase.

21 That's a suitcase that you thought might be the

22 one in photograph number 248. This was a

23 suitcase in the train room that you said you

24 moved a little bit.

25 JOHN RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

0713

Website link to full interview:

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1998BPD-John-Interview-pages-705-796.htm

[Bosox27]

One more thing regarding those emails to Tracy that I forgot....

In one letter Karr says that it was all much quicker than authorities know that the whole murder scene took place in a much shorter period of time than is commonly thought. This would fall right in alignment with Daniel Pride's testimony of the emaciated weirdo on the bus 1.4 miles from the Ramsey's house at half past midnight and right in alignment with Karr calling his email address december251996 and not december261996 as is commonly thought was the actual date of her death

[bumblebee1]

very interesting, Bosox. good sleuthing. especially the part about Helgoth ownng a salvage yard and Karr owning a black Jag. could that be a possible connection between the two?

one thing: it sounds like John Ramsey knew the individual who owned the black Jag and who sold real estate. that would rule out Karr because John Ramsey has never met Karr, iirc.

[Cotontail]

Very nice detective work there. How many things are pointing to this guy yet the DNA does not match. It is so bizzar. Non the less, I am not so totally convienced that Karr was not involved. JR met that guy (real estate) long ago, maybe like you said, he just forgot. 10 years is a long time. NO telling what Karr looked like then.

[Bosox27]

Exactly Coton. And Ramsey said this guy was short and peculiar, owned a black jag of the sort spotted that night and said he was in "real estate." Even back all of those years ago he did not remember his name, so he didnt really "know" him, he just met him once.

Yeah, I know it is weird about the dna not matching. My guess is that karr is majorly OCD and covered his tracks well, IF he was involved at all, and was very careful not to leave any evidence. Dr. Lee found foreign DNA on brand new underwear just opened from the store, don't forget.

[Mashey46]

Originally posted by bumblebee1
i'm sorry if this has been discussed before but is it possible that John Karr had an accomplice? and that he was involved in the killing of JonBenet so that's why the DNA doesn't match?

or is the DA and LE convinced that JonBenet was killed by a lone individual?

Intruder theory....a real no-no as far as all the past & present DA's are concerned let alone an accomplice....

However, ISN'T it a head scratching 'interesting' that the ransom note advises that it is a 'group' that has kidnapped the precious child....and to heck with all the handwritting experts... what do you make about the way the ransom note is signed with the words Victory! SBTC...same as the notations JMK signed in high school year books. While 'everyone' has ignored that notation...how can it be ignored???? It's more like hitting payload than justcoinsidence?!

Accomplice is more probable than a possibility as you've pointed out..

Thanks for the thoughts.:seeya:

[deputydi]

Originally posted by cantaloupe
I could believe just about anything at this point. An accomplice makes as much sense as anything else.
I don't know about an "accomplice", but I've wondered if somehow Karr knows the person that did kill JonBenet. I seriously doubt he was in Boulder that Christmas but he could have met and befriended someone who confided this in him and he, for whatever sick reason, interjected himself into this crime.

[mmerijayn]

Just curious, if some sort of undeniable evidence (like he has her original underwear or the missing rope in storage somewhere) that he was actually involved turns up, can he legally still be charged in this case?

(I know this is far fetched, but I'm not yet convinced that this guy was not involved, although I know that it is highly unlikely. It's funny that everyone was willing to dismiss Karr the second the DNA didn't match, but the DNA also doesn't match the Ramseys and some people still think they are guilty.)


IMO/JMO/MOO

[cantaloupe]

I think so. I think it's only when he has been tried and acquitted that he's scott free.

[Louisadelmar]

Originally posted by mmerijayn
Just curious, if some sort of undeniable evidence (like he has her original underwear or the missing rope in storage somewhere) that he was actually involved turns up, can he legally still be charged in this case?

(I know this is far fetched, but I'm not yet convinced that this guy was not involved, although I know that it is highly unlikely. It's funny that everyone was willing to dismiss Karr the second the DNA didn't match, but the DNA also doesn't match the Ramseys and some people still think they are guilty.)


IMO/JMO/MOO

I believe he can. He was never tried (or even charged) and jury never voted so jeopardy doesn't apply.

[angelskye]

Originally posted by Louisadelmar


I believe he can. He was never tried (or even charged) and jury never voted so jeopardy doesn't apply.

Correct.

[Leanne Weich]

Originally posted by bumblebee1


hey Lady! it's great to see ya! :seeya:

ever since i heard about the theory about a porn ring possibly being involved in JonB's death, i have wondered if Karr might have had an accomplice.

i have wondered how closely the DA has looked at that angle. i mean, Karr might have had nothing to do with this crime at all, but just because the DNA rules him out, should that rule him out altogether? i'm not so sure...but only time will tell i guess.

Karr is either one of the strangest wannabe's of all time or he had something to do with poor little JonB's death, imo.

I am sure that ML and her staff have looked at all plausible and implausible scenarios to nail JMK for this crime. She had to know what a knock her reputation was going to take for bringing the wrong man home on a business class flight. I do, however, hope she discussed him with psychiatrists because from googling articles on MPD, it appears sexual abuse is the main reason for this type of disease.

OT but I would be really interested to read what JMK has written so far in his book to be titled DAXIS.

[Leanne Weich]

Originally posted by EDDIEisMINE
I think if he knew things that only the killer could know, it is possible. Wasn't there someone who died that they thought might of been involved? Some man? You just never really know.
Maybe he killed off the other one involved. Maybe he really was in the basement when she died.

Add to the fact that Helgoth had a cap with the initials SBTC on it and it is quite a coincidence.

[mmerijayn]

Originally posted by California95380
Maybe them releasing him was a ploy? So they can nab him and his BIG MOUTH in his next jail cell? :shrug: It's not like he will not be under 24/7 surveillance!


I was thinking more along the lines that without a DNA match, Lacy wasn't comfortable charging him within 72 hours, but that she may still be building a case against him.

[bullmoose]

Good thought, mmerijayn. bullmoose

[mmerijayn]

Originally posted by bullmoose
Good thought, mmerijayn. bullmoose

Well, I didn't see Lacy's entire press conference, but I believe she was asked if he was 'completely cleared' or something like that. (actually I think she was referring to the Ramsey's). She replied that no one is completely cleared until there is a trial and a conviction.

[docg]

There are things in his story that don't add up and I must say I find it impossible to imagine how any intruder could have done all that was done -- HOWEVER: it is highly disturbing that Karr was dropped as a suspect simply because his DNA didn't match. That strikes me a somewhere between irresponsible and laughable.

Everyone in LE who doesn't work for John Ramsey knows very well the DNA could be irrelevant. Also Karr mentions at least one accomplice and could have had more. So if by some miracle this teensy bit of molecular matter found mixed with the victim's DNA were actually from her attacker, it could have been from an accomplice, NOT Karr. I really find it difficult to understand Lacy's thinking on this. If it were all about the DNA that didn't require a trip to Boulder, the testing could have been done in Thailand. And if it's not about the DNA, then why was he exonerated simply on that basis?

His emails and phone conversations are extremely disturbing and aspects of his story do seem convincing, up to a point. What if he was playing with Tracy, mixing truth with fiction? And what if he were just nutty enough and confused enough to actually write a ransom note by hand and leave it, even though he didn't kidnap his victim?

The story of how he entered and left the house makes no sense. But if he had a key, maybe he's trying to protect the person who gave it to him.

Luckily he is still in custody. I hope that someone somewhere has the sense to grill this guy really well so we can finally get to the bottom of what he is all about and what he actually did or didn't do. Because at the moment, thanks to the incredible bungling of Lacy and her team, everyone is in the dark.

[hohum]

And Lacy said after Karr was released that he is convinced he killed JB, so maybe he did and no one believes him. The ultimate irony.

[LI_Mom]

Well if he saved evidence & they manage to find it AND prove it came from the Ramsey crime scene, they might be able to charge him.

Maybe when he's done with his case in Calif, he can go to Boulder & plant his dna so they CAN find him guilty? It's not too late for him to do things the right way. lol

[reprise]

Originally posted by mmerijayn


Well, I didn't see Lacy's entire press conference, but I believe she was asked if he was 'completely cleared' or something like that. (actually I think she was referring to the Ramsey's). She replied that no one is completely cleared until there is a trial and a conviction.

Mention was made in the press conference thread of Lacy having said that they were not proceeding with the charges because the DNA didn't match AND Karr's family had provided circumstantial evidence of his being in Atlanta at the time of the murder.

[Cotontail]

Originally posted by Bosox27
Exactly Coton. And Ramsey said this guy was short and peculiar, owned a black jag of the sort spotted that night and said he was in "real estate." Even back all of those years ago he did not remember his name, so he didnt really "know" him, he just met him once.

Yeah, I know it is weird about the dna not matching. My guess is that karr is majorly OCD and covered his tracks well, IF he was involved at all, and was very careful not to leave any evidence. Dr. Lee found foreign DNA on brand new underwear just opened from the store, don't forget.

There is something that just does not smell right in this. His handwriting was so close too. Was it ever proven that those new big underware she was found in were from the house? If not, then yes, he could have brought those in from God knows where and no telling whos DNA would be on them...JB could have touched them or scratched herself with her hand/hands and that is how she got the DNA that matches under her nails.

We should start are own detective agency. We all would probably solve this case faster than the group now.

[reprise]

Originally posted by Cotontail


There is something that just does not smell right in this. His handwriting was so close too. Was it ever proven that those new big underware she was found in were from the house? If not, then yes, he could have brought those in from God knows where and no telling whos DNA would be on them...JB could have touched them or scratched herself with her hand/hands and that is how she got the DNA that matches under her nails.

We should start are own detective agency. We all would probably solve this case faster than the group now.

While I doubt that new theories from the public are ever going to solve this particular case, if the same amount of public engagement was present in all child murder cases a lot more of them would get solved.

[topsailgrl]

Originally posted by reprise


Mention was made in the press conference thread of Lacy having said that they were not proceeding with the charges because the DNA didn't match AND Karr's family had provided circumstantial evidence of his being in Atlanta at the time of the murder.

Mention was also made about that circumstantial evidence that he cannot be positively alibied (sp?) from the days of December 23rd to Jan 2nd

[hohum]

Originally posted by California95380


If someone ... perhaps within the house .... had provided him a "key" it is not inconceivable that they could have provided him with a complete diagram of the house floor plan.

Who knows? Maybe Patsy, (or some other family member), had met this wacko at a paegant ..... I could have happened ..... and this whole thing was premeditated?

LOL LOL LOL :lol:

[angelskye]

Originally posted by California95380


If someone ... perhaps within the house .... had provided him a "key" it is not inconceivable that they could have provided him with a complete diagram of the house floor plan.

Who knows? Maybe Patsy, (or some other family member), had met this wacko at a paegant ..... I could have happened ..... and this whole thing was premeditated?

Yeah, and maybe, just MAYBE, I'm actually every single person on this message board right now.

I mean, I'd have to be running around a pretty huge corporation tying on various computers, but hey, it "could happen". :biggrin:

[napa]

To answer the question posed in this thread, jeporady does not attach until the jury is sworn. So even if he had been sworn, the state could drop the case even after jury selection, and still recharge him.

[SpazySazzyRazzy]

Originally posted by hohum
And Lacy said after Karr was released that he is convinced he killed JB, so maybe he did and no one believes him. The ultimate irony.



Ain't that the truth hohum.:eek: I still believe he very well could be involved. I need absolute proof he was not involved. Not just DNA not a match. He stated he walked in his socks, wore gloves. And I recall her body was wiped. I'm hoping/believe if he's someday released he will have constant surveillence. His family really needs to get out of denial about his sickness.:flamemad:

[hohum]

Originally posted by SpazySazzyRazzy




Ain't that the truth hohum.:eek: I still believe he very well could be involved. I need absolute proof he was not involved. Not just DNA not a match. He stated he walked in his socks, wore gloves. And I recall her body was wiped. I'm hoping/believe if he's someday released he will have constant surveillence. His family really needs to get out of denial about his sickness.:flamemad:

Maybe some evidence will come forward about where Karr was that night. That mystery has not been solved no matter what his ex thinks she remembers.

[Bosox27]

Yeah Mash, your post just made me think about somethng. Remember the first ex-wife's mother saying on one news show that she found letters that Karr wrote to her daughter signed SBTC also? I forgot about that.


In his letters to Tracy Karr said that there was a woman also present that night with him and that she left after he did. If true that he was involved, this could mean one of two things:
either the "woman" is a man aka Helgoth or some other guy or

2. the "woman" is Karr's alter ego or multiple personality (his mother who he claims raped him and tried to kill him etc) or whatever and Helgoth or some other guy was the guy

There was a report of a "woman" arrested by police in the early morning hours of Dec26 speeding to the airport, who supposedly called the McReynold's house and who fleed police custody after being taken to the police station. The car was an Oldsmobile I believe. This "woman" may have been Karr in drag getting ready to board a plane back home as a female.

Also in his letters he states that JB called him Mom that night or said "Mom?"



Who knows. either way, this guy is as whacked out as whacked can be.

[jerzeegirl]

also, most of the so called experts that analyzed the ransome note said that it was written by a female. I thought of that and got a chill while reading the karr emails.

[Bosox27]

actually the ocd is not a guess. the maids in the hotel or apt in thailand told reporters that he wouldnt let them go anywhere near his shoes or other things and that he freaked out if the bed wasnt made perfectly and would tell them to make it again. major ocd there. someone like that would cover their tracks well in a murder scene that he'd probably been planning for years. JB did pagents in colorado and atlanta right at the mall near his dad's house a few weeks prior to her death. he knew about this girl before her death for sure.

[Bosox27]

Leanne, the porn ring theory makes me wonder if Mcreynolds (santa), helgoth and karr weren't involved. who knows. santa was a very viable suspect in my mind for years.

[Bosox27]

good point jerzeegirl . I actually thought the note was written by a very mixed up feminine angry hateful male with a lot of rage and capable of extreme violence. In one analysis I read it said that women seldom if ever would use the word beheaded and a few other things that were in that note. I always thought a guy wrote it, but a very mixed up drugged out diva type attention seeking, or crazy guy. Karr fits that description.

In fact, it almost seems like that note was written by someone with multiple male/female personalities, you know? and it sure seems karr has both.

also the author loved theater movies etc and we know karr does

[EDDIEisMINE]

Originally posted by deputydi

I don't know about an "accomplice", but I've wondered if somehow Karr knows the person that did kill JonBenet. I seriously doubt he was in Boulder that Christmas but he could have met and befriended someone who confided this in him and he, for whatever sick reason, interjected himself into this crime.

Yeah even though his family don't know if they were in Alabama or Georgia that Christmas they do remember he was there.:rolleyes: We should believe people who want to make money off of a dead little girl.:flamemad:

[Bosox27]

Also I read today that Mary Lacy's group could only find solid proof of Karrs whereabouts for up to three days PRIOR to JB's murder! That really makes me wonder. Dec 23 1996 to be exact. This guy was a major control freak and i'm sure he could easily have scared his family into silence and left for 2 or 3 days with no problem. no doubt in my mind about that.

[Slicky]

Originally posted by mmerijayn



I was thinking more along the lines that without a DNA match, Lacy wasn't comfortable charging him within 72 hours, but that she may still be building a case against him.

Man, I hope so. Lately I've been wandering back over to the idea that Patsy could have done it. I've been reading alot on the internet.........it sure does seem like she could have. :(

[Leanne Weich]

Originally posted by LI_Mom
Well if he saved evidence & they manage to find it AND prove it came from the Ramsey crime scene, they might be able to charge him.

Maybe when he's done with his case in Calif, he can go to Boulder & plant his dna so they CAN find him guilty? It's not too late for him to do things the right way. lol

God forbid. I really don't want him getting any satisfaction sitting outside JonBenets' home and fanatasising about her.

[reprise]

Originally posted by LI_Mom
Well if he saved evidence & they manage to find it AND prove it came from the Ramsey crime scene, they might be able to charge him.

The DA was thinking the same way. The arrest warrant includes a very long list of things they wanted collected from Karr's residence, including possible souvenirs from the crime scene.

[paperbackreader]

Your thread title, although not really the topic of this thread, completely captured my attention.

I think I've cooked up a new theory here.

OK.....Karr knew his DNA wouldn't match. He also was in deep conversation with the professor over his knowledge of this case. He'd been encouraged to write his book many years ago, but got nowhere because he doesn't have a good "in" on the case. How frustrating that must have been to see people publishing who knew even less than he did!

He's got this penny-ante porn charge outstanding in CA. He's interviewed in the States and the interviewer says, "This guy's not really crazy. He's thoughtful and logical."

I think this is a HUGE set-up. He'll be extradited to CA, but the time in prison has to be minimal. Once out....his name alone will sell his book.

Man, oh, man.......this was all one huge publicity stunt to sell his book.

What's worse.....I'll at least check it out at the library. :lol:

Thanks for the thread. This was like a puzzle piece that plopped into place.