Patsy and John Killed Their Daughter? [Archive] - Page 4

rosebud

09-25-2006, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by MyrDawn

Thanks, Athena! I hadn't see the pictures at that link before.

That picture of JonBenet's vace, clearly shows there are two marks there, and it says same distance apart as marks on back. The differences in size and shape could have occurred when one side of the stun gun made less contact with the skin than the other. Yet, people STILL say there's only one mark on her face from what might be a stun gun. :shrug:

I've heard for a long time about the leaves and debris from the window well were observed on the basement floor directly below the open window, but forgot to mention it in my previous post.

I don't understand how anyone can say there's no sign of disturbance by that window.

:beer:

The coroner concluded they were not stun gun marks.

rosebud

09-25-2006, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by MyrDawn

I don't understand how anyone can say there's no sign of disturbance by that window.

:beer:

No one else noticed a broken basement window. The housekeeper did not notice it nor did the groundskeeper. The broken glass that John Ramsey said was from his breaking the window weeks before in winter was still on the floor under the window on 26 Dec. So with a nine year old boy and a six year old girl in the Ramsey house, no one had cleaned up broken glass under a basement window for weeks.

Athena

09-25-2006, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by rosebud

The coroner concluded they were not stun gun marks.

Not true. Link please!

rosebud

09-25-2006, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Athena

Not true. Link please!

Is true. Read the links posted on this message board.

Athena

09-25-2006, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by rosebud

No one else noticed a broken basement window. The housekeeper did not notice it nor did the groundskeeper. The broken glass that John Ramsey said was from his breaking the window weeks before in winter was still on the floor under the window on 26 Dec. So with a nine year old boy and a six year old girl in the Ramsey house, no one had cleaned up broken glass under a basement window for weeks.

The basement was used for storage. According to Linda Hoffman-Pugh she did not go into the basement of often and just did not recall a broken window. Isn't it possible that she did not notice it if she weren't looking for it?

LindaA

09-25-2006, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by LindaA

Not sure why this is unclear at this point. "RDI" has been shorthand for "Ramseys did it" and "IDI" hs been the same for "intruder did it" for quite some time around here. As a newbie, even I figured that out. I guess you would need a third category, "IDNWDI" for people like me -- "I don't know who did it."

Oops, that should be "IDKWDI." Sorry.

Ames

09-25-2006, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by LindaA

Oops, that should be "IDKWDI." Sorry.

HA HA...hey, I didn't even notice that!! Shows just how bright eyed and bushy tailed I am this morning....I need more COFFEE!

LindaA

09-25-2006, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by Ames

HA HA...hey, I didn't even notice that!! Shows just how bright eyed and bushy tailed I am this morning....I need more COFFEE!
Apparently so do I!

Ames

09-25-2006, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by LindaA

Apparently so do I!

:lol: LOL

rosebud

09-25-2006, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Athena

The basement was used for storage. According to Linda Hoffman-Pugh she did not go into the basement of often and just did not recall a broken window. Isn't it possible that she did not notice it if she weren't looking for it?

Weeks, and months afterwards the broken glass was not cleaned up in the basement. With a six year old girl and a nine year old boy in the house. You simply ignore this highly unlikely occurrance.

Linda Hoffman Pugh from the statements I have read, clearly had reason to go into the basement as part of her job. She is the one who said that JB was scared when she was done there.

The answer is NO, Linda Hoffman Pugh clearly DID go into the basement as part of her job and you have not addressed the implausibility that the groundskeeper of the Ramsey house never noticed a broken basement window either.

A broken basement window in the home of millionaire is ignored for weeks in the winter in Colorado and the glass is not even cleaned up underneath it in a house with two small children. But I guess when you are grasping at straws it is as good a straw as any.

Ames

09-25-2006, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by rosebud

Weeks, and months afterwards the broken glass was not cleaned up in the basement. With a six year old girl and a nine year old boy in the house. You simply ignore this highly unlikely occurrance.

Linda Hoffman Pugh from the statements I have read, clearly had reason to go into the basement as part of her job. She is the one who said that JB was scared when she was done there.

The answer is NO, Linda Hoffman Pugh clearly DID go into the basement as part of her job and you have not addressed the implausibility that the groundskeeper of the Ramsey house never noticed a broken basement window either.

A broken basement window in the home of millionaire is ignored for weeks in the winter in Colorado and the glass is not even cleaned up underneath it in a house with two small children. But I guess when you are grasping at straws it is as good a straw as any.

I cannot believe that there are people out there that think that frail, old Fleet White did it! Couldn't you just see HIM climbing through that window, or hoisting himself onto the suitcase to go back through it? Not to mention, all that was done to JB. IMO

Athena

09-25-2006, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by rosebud

Is true. Read the links posted on this message board.

Well I do not know of what coroner you speak of. John Meyer did not comment because he knew he had to make a presentation to the Grand Jury and Doberson, the Arapahoe County Coroner claimed the photos and marks were compelling evidence of a stun gun. I do know at first he had said he didn't think they were until he was shown the police photos. :confused:

Doberson said he didn't think the marks were from a stun gun. But recently, NEWSWEEK asked Doberson to review Smit's stun-gun evidence. Doberson says the police never showed him Smit's pictures comparing the size and orientation of the marks with the electrical contacts on the Air Taser. He now calls Smit's stun-gun theory "compelling."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14395331/site/newsweek/page/2/

In the same article, Newsweek also reported that it had asked Arapahoe County Coroner Dr. Michael Doberson to review evidence from Smit that a stun gun was used on JonBenet. According to the magazine, Doberson was provided with pictures that the police had never shown him. Doberson was quoted as saying that the "stun gun theory" was compelling. "It just looked to me, superficially, that it fits," Doberson said.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/theory_8.html

Ames

09-25-2006, 11:21 AM

MyrDawn

09-25-2006, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by Ames

I cannot believe that there are people out there that think that frail, old Fleet White did it! Couldn't you just see HIM climbing through that window, or hoisting himself onto the suitcase to go back through it? Not to mention, all that was done to JB. IMO

Frail? Old? His father, who was old, died just last month, but Fleet wasn't old at the time of JonBenet's death and isn't now.

I'd love to see where you posters are getting the info that he was frail!

Why would he climb in the window...he had a KEY to the DOOR?

thewhitewitch1

09-25-2006, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by Athena

Good morning TWW:

The blanket fibers being found and identified were in a response by Thomas in his depo given to a series of questions re: fiber. Maybe he said "consistent with" don't remember his exact words but do know that he said they were found on JBR.

As far as the suitcase being moved don't know if Smit knew or not - guess he was going by Police photos. The better question in my mind is why did Fleet White pick up that glass and move the suitcase? jmo

Good morning Athena. A better question is: why did John Ramsey close the window and not report its' being open to the police right away?

rosebud

09-25-2006, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by MyrDawn

Frail? Old? His father, who was old, died just last month, but Fleet wasn't old at the time of JonBenet's death and isn't now.

I'd love to see where you posters are getting the info that he was frail!

Why would he climb in the window...he had a KEY to the DOOR?

So it is totally rejected that the Ramseys could be capable of killing JB, even by accident, but it is plausible that Fleet White went in the house on Christmas night and deliberately murdered her. Sure.

rosebud

09-25-2006, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1

Good morning Athena. A better question is: why did John Ramsey close the window and not report its' being open to the police right away?

Perhaps because he and Patsy had killed JB during the night and he got confused in mid-stream as to whether to go 100% with the insider intruder theory of who killed her or the random pedophile theory where one breaks into his house to kill JB. A liar has to have a good memory.

diplomat

09-25-2006, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Athena

Well I do not know of what coroner you speak of. John Meyer did not comment because he knew he had to make a presentation to the Grand Jury and Doberson, the Arapahoe County Coroner claimed the photos and marks were compelling evidence of a stun gun. I do know at first he had said he didn't think they were until he was shown the police photos. :confused:

Doberson said he didn't think the marks were from a stun gun. But recently, NEWSWEEK asked Doberson to review Smit's stun-gun evidence. Doberson says the police never showed him Smit's pictures comparing the size and orientation of the marks with the electrical contacts on the Air Taser. He now calls Smit's stun-gun theory "compelling."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14395331/site/newsweek/page/2/

In the same article, Newsweek also reported that it had asked Arapahoe County Coroner Dr. Michael Doberson to review evidence from Smit that a stun gun was used on JonBenet. According to the magazine, Doberson was provided with pictures that the police had never shown him. Doberson was quoted as saying that the "stun gun theory" was compelling. "It just looked to me, superficially, that it fits," Doberson said.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/theory_8.html

The good news about Dr. Doberson is that he is willing to take a look at evidence he has not seen before and consider it. This is a big plus. IMO

rosebud

09-25-2006, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Ames

I cannot believe that there are people out there that think that frail, old Fleet White did it! Couldn't you just see HIM climbing through that window, or hoisting himself onto the suitcase to go back through it? Not to mention, all that was done to JB. IMO

I cannot believe this many people refuse to believe the Ramseys did it when there is no evidence of an intruder whatsoever.

MyrDawn

09-25-2006, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by rosebud

I cannot believe this many people refuse to believe the Ramseys did it when there is no evidence of an intruder whatsoever.

There is no proof there was NOT an intruder, and many things that leave doubt as to whether it was the Ramseys. I refuse to convict the Ramseys without proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which does not exist.

Poster

09-25-2006, 01:31 PM

I can see both sides of the issue here, and wouldn't be too surprised either way.

Although this spectacular find may just sell me on the idea that the Ramsey's did it
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42925

:lol: :rolleyes:

Ames

09-25-2006, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by MyrDawn

Frail? Old? His father, who was old, died just last month, but Fleet wasn't old at the time of JonBenet's death and isn't now.

I'd love to see where you posters are getting the info that he was frail!

Why would he climb in the window...he had a KEY to the DOOR?

Yes, again I will say...I know. Read the post above the original one that you made.

thewhitewitch1

09-25-2006, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by diplomat

So what was the motive for the Ramsey's to kill JB? An accidental killing would not have necessitated all that was done to JB. Just crack her skull, then write the ransom note, and be done with it. There was no need for all the rest, plus the fact that the more that was done, the better the chance for being caught. The more noise, the better the chance that Burke would awaken. Too much overkill for the Ramsey's to have been involved. This was a very angry murder. JMO

I believe much more damage would have been done if it were a rage thing from an intruder. She was not tortured. The sexual assult was done after the fact and was minimal, which makes it look staged to point at a pediphile.
Perhaps they couldn't count on the blow to her head killing her. After all, they had no way of seeing inside of her skull to assess the damage. Perhaps JB went into convulsions and then the Ramseys panicked and strangled her. I still think a scarf was used first and the garrotte came afterwards to cover that up. Once dead, they needed to formulate a scenerio which pointed away from them...but I guess they couldn't make up their minds which scene to choose from. As far as them going this far and standing a better chance at getting caught....have they been caught? No, they have not.
I do believe Burke was awake and knows something. Apparently if he was not awake, then he missed all of the screaming and clomping up and down the stairs that the Ramseys did after "finding" the ransom note. Tell me how anyone can sleep through that? And oh yeah...IMO

thewhitewitch1

09-25-2006, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Poster
I can see both sides of the issue here, and wouldn't be too surprised either way.

Although this spectacular find may just sell me on the idea that the Ramsey's did it
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42925

:lol: :rolleyes:

That theory was just idiotic! IMO

rosebud

09-25-2006, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by MyrDawn

There is no proof there was NOT an intruder,

Say what????

Ames

09-25-2006, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by rosebud

I cannot believe this many people refuse to believe the Ramseys did it when there is no evidence of an intruder whatsoever.

Hi Rosebud, I was getting Fleet mixed up with Bill McReynolds...for some reason. Doesn't matter anyway, because Fleet didn't do it, the parents did. IMO

rosebud

09-25-2006, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by Ames

Hi Rosebud, I was getting Fleet mixed up with Bill McReynolds...for some reason. Doesn't matter anyway, because Fleet didn't do it, the parents did. IMO

Hi Ames, How do you discuss facts with people who seem to think that no evidence of an intruder is proof of an intruder? LOL

Ames

09-25-2006, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by rosebud

Hi Ames, How do you discuss facts with people who seem to think that no evidence of an intruder is proof of an intruder? LOL

I KNOW! They just will not listen LOL....
I have decided to not argue with them, because when I do, I get accused of shouting (I have a bad habit of using caps, to emphasize...and I don't mean to shout). I have come to the conclusion that no matter WHAT we say, we cannot change their minds, it goes the other way too... no matter what THEY say, they will not be able to change ours. One or both parents did it...IMO...thats my story, and I'm sticking with it...I don't care what anybody says, there is no changing my mind. IMO IMO IMO IMO :D

Athena

09-25-2006, 04:32 PM

Athena

09-25-2006, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Ames

I KNOW! They just will not listen LOL....
I have decided to not argue with them, because when I do, I get accused of shouting (I have a bad habit of using caps, to emphasize...and I don't mean to shout). I have come to the conclusion that no matter WHAT we say, we cannot change their minds, it goes the other way too... no matter what THEY say, they will not be able to change ours. One or both parents did it...IMO...thats my story, and I'm sticking with it...I don't care what anybody says, there is no changing my mind. IMO IMO IMO IMO :D

Ames can't speak for anyone else -- I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. Once someone's mind is made up there it can be very difficult to change it. However, much can be learned with debate. I too put certain quotes in words -- but to emphasize not yell. It's less "PIA" than trying to put the word in italics.

Like I said in a previous post I made -- I do pay attention to what posters such as you have to say about why you think the Ramseys did it and maybe there is something that can possibly convince me but I just haven't seen/read it yet. I have no shame in admitting I could be wrong and therefore I keep an open mind. Plus why would you need this message board if all of us agreed -- how boring that would be. :)

Ames

09-25-2006, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Athena

Ames can't speak for anyone else -- I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. Once someone's mind is made up there it can be very difficult to change it. However, much can be learned with debate. I too put certain quotes in words -- but to emphasize not yell. It's less "PIA" than trying to put the word in italics.

Like I said in a previous post I made -- I do pay attention to what posters such as you have to say about why you think the Ramseys did it and maybe there is something that can possibly convince me but I just haven't seen/read it yet. I have no shame in admitting I could be wrong and therefore I keep an open mind. Plus why would you need this message board if all of us agreed -- how boring that would be. :)

Yeah, I am not trying either, I just know what I feel in my heart to be true. And unless, someone comes forth with some groundbreaking evidence, that we do not yet know about, its going to be hard for me to change my mind. I am NOT saying that it can't be done though....but, it would have to be something earth shattering, for me to go with the intruder theory. HA HA..yeah, the same reason that you put some of your words in quotes, is the same reason that I cap some of mine, which some people mistake for screaming and being sarcastic. And, I do understand why they would think that. Its just a bad habit of mine....I am really a very nice person.....REALLY I AM!!! lol

MyrDawn

09-25-2006, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Ames

Yes, again I will say...I know. Read the post above the original one that you made.

I see...sorry Ames. You must have posted that when I was writing my post, and I missed it once mine posted. I'm not the fastest typist in the world. And I didn't lock back up the thread to see if any cross posted while I was posting.

MyrDawn

09-25-2006, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by rosebud

Say what????

You don't understand that????

You say there is no proof there was an intruder. True.

I say there is no proof there was NOT an intruder. That is also true.

If there was proof there was no intruder, I certainly would believe it was one of the Ramseys.

That is why this case is unsolved after almost 10 years. There is no proof who killed JonBenet, whether it an intruder or one of the Ramseys.

And do NOT go implying AGAIN that I think "no proof of an intruder is proof there was an intruder". That is NOT what I think, nor what I am saying.

I do not know why that is so hard for you to understand. :rolleyes:

Ames

09-25-2006, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by MyrDawn

I see...sorry Ames. You must have posted that when I was writing my post, and I missed it once mine posted. I'm not the fastest typist in the world. And I didn't lock back up the thread to see if any cross posted while I was posting.

Thats okay, I understand. Sorry, I know that I "sounded" rude, I didn't mean it to "sound" that way, though. :D

MyrDawn

09-25-2006, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by Ames

Thats okay, I understand. Sorry, I know that I "sounded" rude, I didn't mean it to "sound" that way, though. :D

Naw, you didn't "sound" rude. At least I didn't hear you banging your fingers too hard on your keyboard. :D

LindaA

09-25-2006, 06:00 PM

I know you are speaking of my post when you talk about being accused of yelling and being sarcastic. You are not the one who uses sarcasm, IMO. But typing in all caps is generally thought to be rude on the 'net. Not my rule, but that's the way it is interpreted generally or so I've been told.

Anyway, I'm also not trying to convince anyone the Ramseys did it or anyone else did it. I truly don't know. I tend to lean to the IDI theory, because as someone else said, I've not yet seen the evidence that convinces me otherwise. I've never seen anyone who could explain why they would have done it and staged that over-the-top cover up for want of a better word.

On the other hand, it is only slightly more believeable to me that someone slipped into the house and did it. I just cannot rule that out from what I've seen.

There must be evidence around that we don't know or why would the DA have suspected Karr did it? Wish I knew the answer to that.

bullmoose

09-25-2006, 06:25 PM

Well put. I think that we all hope there is more evidence tha n we know of; I think most of us come here hoping to understand better this baffling case[I know I do]. bullmoose

Ames

09-25-2006, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by MyrDawn

Naw, you didn't "sound" rude. At least I didn't hear you banging your fingers too hard on your keyboard. :D

Good, I am glad that I didn't "sound" rude. LOL
Can't bang too hard anyway, I cut my finger and have on a bandaid....I consider myself lucky, if I can type one letter at a time. LOL

Ames

09-25-2006, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by LindaA
I know you are speaking of my post when you talk about being accused of yelling and being sarcastic. You are not the one who uses sarcasm, IMO. But typing in all caps is generally thought to be rude on the 'net. Not my rule, but that's the way it is interpreted generally or so I've been told.

Anyway, I'm also not trying to convince anyone the Ramseys did it or anyone else did it. I truly don't know. I tend to lean to the IDI theory, because as someone else said, I've not yet seen the evidence that convinces me otherwise. I've never seen anyone who could explain why they would have done it and staged that over-the-top cover up for want of a better word.

On the other hand, it is only slightly more believeable to me that someone slipped into the house and did it. I just cannot rule that out from what I've seen.

There must be evidence around that we don't know or why would the DA have suspected Karr did it? Wish I knew the answer to that.

Why yes...it WAS (sorry) you that I was talking about. I usually don't cap a whole sentence, thats what I would call rude. I think that I may have done it once, but, usually I just cap a word for emphasis, kind of like putting them in quotes or something, except, I didn't want to do THAT (sorry) , because I don't want people to think that I am quoting something that someone else said. Sorry if my caps offend you...that is not their intention. :D

rosebud

09-26-2006, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by MyrDawn

You don't understand that????

You say there is no proof there was an intruder. True.

I say there is no proof there was NOT an intruder. That is also true.

If there was proof there was no intruder, I certainly would believe it was one of the Ramseys.

That is why this case is unsolved after almost 10 years. There is no proof who killed JonBenet, whether it an intruder or one of the Ramseys.

And do NOT go implying AGAIN that I think "no proof of an intruder is proof there was an intruder". That is NOT what I think, nor what I am saying.

I do not know why that is so hard for you to understand. :rolleyes:

Oh, I understand perfectly. :rolleyes:

Ames

09-26-2006, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by rosebud

Oh, I understand perfectly. :rolleyes:

:lol: LOL...Yes, it is PERFECTLY "clear" now.

lucky13

09-30-2006, 11:11 AM

Quick question...do you IDI theorists also think that Darlie Routier was innocent of killing her two little boys? Or do you also believe that another 'INTRUDER' did it (her story) just to make it look like she did it -for whatever reason?? Just curious. I'm glad that she was found guilty- I always thought she was.( Maybe she should've left a fake ransom note!)
IDI, why do you suppose that John was on the phone with his pilot so soon after finding his murdered baby? He was wanting to leave right away- even as JB was still lying dead on the floor.
Does anyone else on here have a doctor who makes house calls? Does your doctor come over & take walks with you? I find the relationship between Dr. Beuf & the Ramseys to be more than just doctor/patient. Don't you? Hmmm....
Why did John carry his dead daughters body up the stairs like a plank of wood after finding her? Wouldn't you scoop her up lovingly, instead of holding her out away from you like she's some roadkilled skunk?? Weird...he fell all over her as soon as he laid her down- in front of other people.

:confused:

WallyCleaver

09-30-2006, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by lucky13
Quick question...do you IDI theorists also think that Darlie Routier was innocent of killing her two little boys? Or do you also believe that another 'INTRUDER' did it (her story) just to make it look like she did it -for whatever reason?? Just curious. I'm glad that she was found guilty- I always thought she was.( Maybe she should've left a fake ransom note!)
IDI, why do you suppose that John was on the phone with his pilot so soon after finding his murdered baby? He was wanting to leave right away- even as JB was still lying dead on the floor.
Does anyone else on here have a doctor who makes house calls? Does your doctor come over & take walks with you? I find the relationship between Dr. Beuf & the Ramseys to be more than just doctor/patient. Don't you? Hmmm....
Why did John carry his dead daughters body up the stairs like a plank of wood after finding her? Wouldn't you scoop her up lovingly, instead of holding her out away from you like she's some roadkilled skunk?? Weird...he fell all over her as soon as he laid her down- in front of other people.

:confused:

I'm RDI, but I'd like to answer a couple questions.

JR was on the phone because he had to be. They had a flight scheduled, and now after the 911 call, the flight obviously would be delayed or cancelled. He may have wanted to get out of there, but he absolutely had to call his pilot early in the morning.

Doctors have friends. Not all friends are fellow doctors. Nothing wrong with speculating that the relationship was closer than Dr/patient, but you have no proof of anything shady.

He may have carried her like a plank because she was stiff as a board.

MyrDawn

09-30-2006, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by WallyCleaver

He may have carried her like a plank because she was stiff as a board.

With her also stiff arms extended over her head, up an enclosed starcase. I can't think of how else he could have carried her other than upright.

MOO

Athena

10-01-2006, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1

<snip>
I do believe Burke was awake and knows something. Apparently if he was not awake, then he missed all of the screaming and clomping up and down the stairs that the Ramseys did after "finding" the ransom note. Tell me how anyone can sleep through that? And oh yeah...IMO

TWW - I know you are reading the threads?

John has since said he found out Burke was awake after he testified for the Grand Jury. He laid in bed and pretended to be asleep. The parents were unaware of this until Burke told them almost two years later.

John says when he went to wake up Burke to take him to the Whites he told him JBR was missing and his eyes welled up with tears. The article is in these threads somewhere.

Athena

10-01-2006, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by WallyCleaver

I'm RDI, but I'd like to answer a couple questions.

JR was on the phone because he had to be. They had a flight scheduled, and now after the 911 call, the flight obviously would be delayed or cancelled. He may have wanted to get out of there, but he absolutely had to call his pilot early in the morning.

Doctors have friends. Not all friends are fellow doctors. Nothing wrong with speculating that the relationship was closer than Dr/patient, but you have no proof of anything shady.

He may have carried her like a plank because she was stiff as a board.

He was questioned about that call re: leaving on his plane. Apparently the police were satisfied with his answer (albeit Thomas). He said he wanted to get Patsy and Burke to GA around their family. He explained that his daughter had just been killed and he wanted to know they would be safe.

In PMPT when the BPD told him he couldn't leave he did not argue or resist either. The only thing he disputed was staying in a motel when it was suggested.

thewhitewitch1

10-01-2006, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Athena

TWW - I know you are reading the threads?

John has since said he found out Burke was awake after he testified for the Grand Jury. He laid in bed and pretended to be asleep. The parents were unaware of this until Burke told them almost two years later.

John says when he went to wake up Burke to take him to the Whites he told him JBR was missing and his eyes welled up with tears. The article is in these threads somewhere.

Athena...I read both of those thing already somewhere but forgot that Burke had told someone he was awake...thanks.

FurthurBB

10-25-2006, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by rosebud

I cannot believe this many people refuse to believe the Ramseys did it when there is no evidence of an intruder whatsoever.

To say there is no evidence of an intruder when they obviously is does not very compelling for your theory either. IMO

FurthurBB

10-25-2006, 08:53 PM

Coloradokares

10-25-2006, 10:55 PM

First let me say Fleet White didn't do it. IMHO. However Fleet is active spry and a sailing buddy with John at that time. Would you be thinking of poor old Mr. Barnhill? Fleet had a daughter, Daphene the same age as JonBenet. Barnhill was cleared too.

Originally posted by Ames

I cannot believe that there are people out there that think that frail, old Fleet White did it! Couldn't you just see HIM climbing through that window, or hoisting himself onto the suitcase to go back through it? Not to mention, all that was done to JB. IMO

MyrDawn

10-26-2006, 04:49 AM

Originally posted by rosebud

I cannot believe this many people refuse to believe the Ramseys did it when there is no evidence of an intruder whatsoever.

I find it unbelieveable that people refuse to believe the Ramseys may not have done it, when there's no proof they did.

I also find it unbelievable that people refuse to believe an intruder couldn't possibly have done it, just because there has been no match to the evidence that IS there that may well belong to an intruder. Namely, the pubic hair found on the blanket with JonBenet, the DNA in her pubic region and under her fingernails, and many many unidentified fibers. There is no proof that those DON'T belong to an intruder.

MyrDawn

10-26-2006, 04:53 AM

Originally posted by rosebud

Hi Ames, How do you discuss facts with people who seem to think that no evidence of an intruder is proof of an intruder? LOL

What a strange thing to say. :rolleyes:

There is evidence that has NOT been identified as belonging to the Ramseys or any other suspects. How do you KNOW that NONE of that belongs to an intruder?

MyrDawn

10-26-2006, 04:54 AM

Originally posted by Ames

Good, I am glad that I didn't "sound" rude. LOL
Can't bang too hard anyway, I cut my finger and have on a bandaid....I consider myself lucky, if I can type one letter at a time. LOL

Owie! I hope it feels better soon! :rose:

MyrDawn

10-26-2006, 04:57 AM

Sheesh, I didn't realize I was replying to such old posts. Sorry, folks! :eek:

I do hope your finger is better now, Ames!

Athena

10-26-2006, 07:58 AM

Originally posted by MyrDawn
Sheesh, I didn't realize I was replying to such old posts. Sorry, folks! :eek:

I do hope your finger is better now, Ames!

It appears that many threads were merged and in the process I think the chronology of posts were messed up.

MyrDawn

10-26-2006, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Athena

It appears that many threads were merged and in the process I think the chronology of posts were messed up.

Thanks, you make me feel a little less folish! :)

Devotion

10-26-2006, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by MyrDawn

Did FW move the suitcase away from the window or put it under the window? I've heard most often, including on LKL, that FW first found the suitcase directly under it up against the wall and he moved it away from the wall to where it shows in the pictures.

"The position of that suitcase when it was first observed there, by Fleet White, was that it was directly against the wall, directly underneath that open window..."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0105/28/lkl.00.html
:shrug: imo: If I remember correctly, JBR had been sick during Christmas and did not play outside,
but she (not sure who else) did play in the basement with her Christmas toys & possibly her bicycle...
Could the children have moved the suitcases while
playing??...jmo

nuisanceposter

10-26-2006, 11:16 AM

JonBenet didn't like the basement and didn't play down there. Burke did, though, in the train room. I don't know if he was down there on Christmas Day...but couldn't that suitcase have been moved to near the window at any time prior to it being found there? How do we know it only showed up there during Christmas Day?

MyrDawn, I've also noticed the disappearance of and merging of threads in the past week.

Athena

10-26-2006, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Devotion

:shrug: imo: If I remember correctly, JBR had been sick during Christmas and did not play outside,
but she (not sure who else) did play in the basement with her Christmas toys & possibly her bicycle...
Could the children have moved the suitcases while
playing??...jmo

I'm at work guys so no link. Hope you trust me.

Fleet White moved the suitcase away from the window. When he saw it originally it was directly under the window which he admitted doing including picking up broken glass and setting it on the sill. JMO

Ames

10-26-2006, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by Coloradokares
First let me say Fleet White didn't do it. IMHO. However Fleet is active spry and a sailing buddy with John at that time. Would you be thinking of poor old Mr. Barnhill? Fleet had a daughter, Daphene the same age as JonBenet. Barnhill was cleared too.

No, I was thinking of Bill McReynolds...