CLR: Renee Fox, 25, Found: Bones Identified as Hers

[curiousfriend]

http://crimeblog.us/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/reneefoxpostcard.JPG

http://crimeblog.us/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/reneefoxpostcard2.JPG

http://huffcrimeblog.com/

[Inyo Native]

If you set your odometer to "0" when you hit the dirt, Renee was found .7 of a mile from where the pavement ends. ...And I would defenitly say it's not a ravine!! To quote Inyo Native--It's more like a slight, gentle dip-If that!! And the bush is maybe 4 ft. tall.
...
Inyo Native: Have you been there recently? When we were there Thanksgiving weekend, our memorial sign was coming apart-has it gotten worse?? :( I was hoping to fix it soon, don't know when we'll be up there again.


I don't think it has gotten worse. Here are some pictures I took:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/InyoNative/Reneesmemorial-thesigncloseup.jpg


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/InyoNative/Reneesmemorialfrontview.jpg

[Inyo Native]

Here is a view from the road, as you can see, it's pretty close:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/InyoNative/Reneesmemorialfromroad-actualdistan.jpg

And another view from the road- the memorial is visible towards the right, at the end of the little side road:

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/InyoNative/Reneesmemorialfromroad.jpg

Also, the "ravine" is barely visible.

[Inyo Native]

I plan to post more on this later, but here is a photo of Shaleen Duckey's memorial- the flowers in the middle of the background marking where she was found. This is next to a road, and as you can see, she must have been plainly visible. http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/InyoNative/Shaleensmemorial.jpg

This is a link to more photos:http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/InyoNative/ I will be uploading more in the next few days, pictures I took of the Independence area, ranger station, jail, Shaleen's site, etc.

[cabojenn]

Thank you for posting the pictures.

[tandarat]

Photobucket is the one I can't access :(. Hopefully I can get a quiet moment to sneak online from home sometime soon.

Inyo, I have a question. From the aerial photos, it looks like there is a hill or bowl directly north of the area Renee was found, with a dirt road or trail leading to one of the indentations. I'm trying to find a topo map now to find out exactly how "tall" this hill is, but it looks at least somewhat higher than the surrounding area. The bowls look manmade - I'm assuming it is related to mining in the area. Do you happen to know what these were used for, if they have a name, and whether this may be a "hotspot" for locals...kids, parties, hangout, etc?

Thanks!

[Inyo Native]

Photobucket is the one I can't access :(. Hopefully I can get a quiet moment to sneak online from home sometime soon.

Inyo, I have a question. From the aerial photos, it looks like there is a hill or bowl directly north of the area Renee was found, with a dirt road or trail leading to one of the indentations. I'm trying to find a topo map now to find out exactly how "tall" this hill is, but it looks at least somewhat higher than the surrounding area. The bowls look manmade - I'm assuming it is related to mining in the area. Do you happen to know what these were used for, if they have a name, and whether this may be a "hotspot" for locals...kids, parties, hangout, etc?

Thanks!


I think I might have taken a picture of the hill with the bowl, I'll post it later if I have it (it's on my home computer). It doesn't appear to be a party area, that I know of. I'll ask my family since they know people that live in Independence, but I would think that some people might be cautious about partying there, since it's just down the road from the Inyo County jail.

[Inyo Native]

I think this might be it, to the right of the photo. It's somewhat close to Renee's memorial, but appears closer than it actually is in the first photo because I had zoomed in with my camera. The second picture is more accurate, taken just up the road from Renee's memorial.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/InyoNative/Partialbowlmentionedinhills.jpg

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/InyoNative/MazourkaCanyonRoadalittlefurtherupf.jpg

Also, there is a radio tower on Mazourka Canyon Road, near the jail and highway 395. I don't know if that's significant or not but if somebody were lost in that area it could help guide them to town, especially in the dark.

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/InyoNative/Radiotower.jpg

[tandarat]

These photos show not only how desolate it is out there, but also how deceptive the desert can be. Things that appear quite far on the map look close on foot. What looks like it may be a half mile could actually be several miles away. Add 100+ heat, bright sun amplified by the sand, low humidity, and little or no shade, you can see how easily someone could become disoriented, even this close to town. I did some research, and the temperature did drop significantly in the area on 6/24-25. The average temperature for Owens Valley (this is where Independence is located, correct?) ranged from a high of 103 to a low of 65. After such a hot day, 65 is downright chilly if you're wearing summer clothes. Less than a week later the temperatures "plummeted" to a "mere" high of 86 and about a 10th of an inch of RAIN...I think one day had almost .25 inch. I'm no expert, but looking at the weather, I'm doubting her body had a chance to mummify, which could mask the odor of decomposition. It doesn't take long in high heat like that for the odor to build up, either.

And yes, I believe those are the bowls I saw. I'll check them against the map when I have a chance.

The memorial is very nice - it looks like it is holding up well considering the extreme weather up there. I can see how her body *could* be hidden from the road, though. Remember, in summer those bushes would have a bit more foliage. I'm sure people drive by fairly quickly at that point - the road is well-maintained, and it looks like there is decent traction, few potholes, and no steep dropoffs. (except for that massive ravine, of course :eek: !) Considering the color of the sand, the fact she was nude (and if by some wild chance animals ran off with her clothes later, leaving her body in a pristine state that allowed them to find her flat on her back with her arms crossed- was dressed in "natural" colors...no hot pinks or neon blue to attract attention). Add to that sand blown over the body by the wind....ok, I can see how the body was not visible from the road, IF you weren't looking for her.

This is what bugs me about the sheriff's excuses and reasoning:

The relative condition of the body when found. Supposedly she was found on her back with her arms crossed over her chest, or body. I've read differing accounts. If she was in an extreme state of decomposition, I would have to assume that animals got to her. If the area is too arid for coyotes, then rodents and birds, particularly vultures, condors, and other birds of prey, would have gotten to her. Even feral dogs, which I'm sure roam out there - they are close enough to town to get water, and it looks like a great "dumping ground" for unwanted pets. I find it hard to believe that her body would be left in a state that would allow the recovery team to immediately tell exactly how the body was positioned, INCLUDING the position of her arms. I just don't buy that. Now, was this statement only found in the papers, or is it in the official findings (autopsy report, etc.)? It could be another example of the media "dressing" up the story.

Her proximity to the road would mean that if she had been there the entire time, SOMEONE would have smelled her. As I mentioned, though it was very hot and dry, the nights were quite cool - I think the highest average low I saw was something like 72 degrees. Though most of the time the humidity was fairly low, it was quite high on several days, and was 100% (i.e. raining) on at least 3 days to my knowledge. Those days, though much cooler than during the worst of the heatwave, were still quite warm. One day I believe it was well in the 90's and raining. (blech) The temperature must be either very warm or very cold with extremely low humidity. It looked like the average temperature between 6/24 and 8/10 was somewhere in the mid 90's during the day, and mid 60's at night. Add the rain, and the chance of mummification is pretty slim, I'd say. Now, I don't know how many of you have had the misfortune to smell a decomposing human body, but I gotta tell you, it isn't something you can ignore, and it permeates EVERYTHING. I doubt it would be something that someone in a car with rolled up windows and air blasting could miss. As far as I know, not one person during the entire time she was missing reported smelling anything. From what I've been hearing, and from what I've seen online, this road is kind of a hotspot for "desert rats" and weekend warriors. Many take this route and continue to Death Valley. I find it hard to believe no one noticed any kind of smell.

Also, being that close to the road, any kind of a search should have found her. It makes sense to me, especially if they thought she made it back to the highway, to check the road leading up to the last place she was seen, as well as beyond it. They spent 4 days looking for her...what were they doing, searching blindfolded? Where she was located, two people walking down the road, one on each side and searching the area along the road, would have done the trick. The fact that the bush is IMMEDIATELY next to a short offshoot to the main road is even more astonishing to me. IF it is true, and she was there the whole time, avoiding being eaten by wildlife, and miraculously not causing any foul odor, then the fact they didn't find her in the first three days is inexcusable. Also, I can't see how this area could even be remotely considered "dangerous". Um, yeah, there are mines and unstable buildings, but I would guess the AVERAGE person would have enough common sense to not enter a mineshaft or climb on 100-year-old shacks and equipment that is turning to dust before your eyes. Considering the people who were to conduct the search were well-trained, well-respected PROFESSIONALS, I just don't understand what the sheriff's department was thinking. Now, I've seen some of the terrain further up into the canyon, and I've seen some other "popular" roads and trails in the same general area (Panamint mountains, some of the other canyons, etc.), and I can see how LE might be cautious even with trained search and rescue groups if LE isn't familiar with them, and the group isn't from the area....it is pretty rugged out there. But this is a well-groomed road on a relatively flat grade. If there are areas where the mines are too close to the surface, causing a danger of collapse if you walk, ride, or drive over them, then I'd think they would be fenced off, considering the traffic that goes through the area. If not, mark it out on a map for these guys. There was no reason not to let them search the area.

Inyo - how long were you out there, and did you see anyone go by while you were out there? I'm just curious.

Thanks again for taking the time to get those pictures. If I didn't have so many responsibilities here at home, I'd drive out myself. I'm about 4 hours from Independence - just over the mountains and a straight shot north through the desert.

[Inyo Native]

From what I've been hearing, and from what I've seen online, this road is kind of a hotspot for "desert rats" and weekend warriors. Many take this route and continue to Death Valley. I find it hard to believe no one noticed any kind of smell.

Also, being that close to the road, any kind of a search should have found her. It makes sense to me, especially if they thought she made it back to the highway, to check the road leading up to the last place she was seen, as well as beyond it. They spent 4 days looking for her...what were they doing, searching blindfolded? Where she was located, two people walking down the road, one on each side and searching the area along the road, would have done the trick. The fact that the bush is IMMEDIATELY next to a short offshoot to the main road is even more astonishing to me.

That is exactly what I was thinking when I visited the site- I was just astonished it took so long to find her! She wasn't very far along the dirt road, and she was fairly close to a mining building which appeared to be popular- I visited the area twice and each time I passed it there was a vehicle parked nearby as people explored the building and hill.

I don't think wind would have covered her with much dirt- because as you mentioned, there was more foliage in the area then there is now which would have provided some shelter. Quite honestly though, I'm a bit suspicious of the photo printed in the media, which looks downright misleading (given how close the mountains appear): http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_130.shtml


IF it is true, and she was there the whole time, avoiding being eaten by wildlife, and miraculously not causing any foul odor, then the fact they didn't find her in the first three days is inexcusable. Also, I can't see how this area could even be remotely considered "dangerous".

If there are areas where the mines are too close to the surface, causing a danger of collapse if you walk, ride, or drive over them, then I'd think they would be fenced off, considering the traffic that goes through the area. If not, mark it out on a map for these guys. There was no reason not to let them search the area.


I remember reading somewhere that the mines are indeed covered, and that they actually found one that was not covered during the search and contracted somebody to come in and put a protective covering over it. The area did not look dangerous to me- that is, I didn't think that there was a possibility I could fall in a mine. Of course, there was less foliage, but there's rarely enough foliage to cover anything up like that. The area was not as dangerous as they make it out to be, after all, many tourists enjoy exploring the area.

It was certainly less dangerous than the area by Highway 395:

More, today, on the four-lane issue of Highway 395 between Poverty Hills and Independence. Two people lost their lives in that stretch last Sunday. It's always the same scenario. Somebody screws up - veers into oncoming traffic and a head-on collision kills someone. Four lanes at least provide margin for error. Those who drive that stretch every day - including all Inyo courthouse workers who live north - take on the white-knuckle version of travel. It's the only way to make sure you see some fool try to make a bad pass and kill you while he's at it.
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_255.shtml (Bad Luck, Hypocrisies, and More Highway Explanations)
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_251.shtml (Traffic Deaths Raise Questions)


Inyo - how long were you out there, and did you see anyone go by while you were out there? I'm just curious.

Thanks again for taking the time to get those pictures. If I didn't have so many responsibilities here at home, I'd drive out myself. I'm about 4 hours from Independence - just over the mountains and a straight shot north through the desert.

Yes, I did in fact pass several people. At one point, I passed a man on a mountain bike further up the canyon, about 1 mile from Renee's memorial. There were also numerous people exploring the mining building about 1/3 mile down the road (which is visible on the left side of the road in the pictures I took).

When I saw the man on the bike, I realized there were probably other bikers around during the time Renee was missing. How could they not notice anything?

I visited the area twice. The first time I was only there about half an hour, and the second time I was in the area a little over an hour. I drove further up the canyon to the miners camp, which is about 8.5 miles from highway 395. Since Renee was last spotted a little past the camp, this means she walked at least 4 miles after she was last seen. I also noted the terrain is somewhat curvy and a little steep in some places- she must have been exhausted, to have walked so far up and down the canyon!

My sister told me that she once walked with friends further down the road, closer to town but on one of the unpaved back roads. She said they thought the walk would be quick, but it ended up taking quite awhile and was exhausting, because it was so hard to walk in that terrain.

Something else I should mention is that the terrain in Inyo County can change pretty quickly. For example, the pictures the media strike me as having been taken shortly after it rained, because there is a lot of green foliage. Usually the area is very dry, and the foliage is less dense and brown/colorless, but after it rains the valley can change almost overnight to a lush green. I wonder just how much foliage there was when Renee disappeared.

[LetsBeConcerned]

On Sunday 06-25-06 at approximately 3:30 PM a search was requested for Renee Fox who was last seen in Mazourka Canyon after her vehicle had become disabled in Santa Rita Flats. As the Sheriff’s Dept. and a USFS Ranger searched the canyon, an air search was conducted utilizing a Forest Service helicopter.
On 06-26-06 Inyo County Search and Rescue ground teams responded including two search dog teams. The air search continued with the Forest Service Helicopter.
Late in the afternoon, one of the search dogs alerted on the entrance to a horizontal mine. Fox’s shoe prints could be seen entering the mine. Indian Wells Mine Rescue out of Kern County was requested. The horizontal mine was searched along with a near-by vertical mine. Fox was not located in either mine. No other evidence was located to indicate where Fox had gone.
On 06-27-06 the ground teams and the dog teams continued to search the canyon. Grid searching from the air had broadened to surrounding areas and into the valley floor utilizing CHP helicopter H-80 out of Apple Valley. No further evidence was located to indicate Fox had either walked out of the canyon or taken any other direction of travel.
On 06-28-06, an air search with the Forest Service helicopter and search by vehicle was conducted in the Santa Rita Flat’s area and Badger Flats area. No further evidence was located to indicate Fox was in either of these areas.
This canyon complex is a high use area with substantial vehicular traffic.
Since no physical evidence was located to indicate Fox had walked out of the canyon, or into a joining area, the search was suspended.
http://www.mmarray.org/~rick/html/SAR/Missions/2006June25.txt


(While the Inyo SAR team was searching for Renee, some of her family was also up there on Tuesday 6/27 and the search lasted less than 2 hours. The SAR team said that they would return that day, but they never did. This is the only day that the valley floor, the place that Renee was found, was searched, and only by air. The following day, they searched further into the canyon, past her car. I question why they did not complete the search of the valley floor and why they never searched that area by ground~?? Inyo County refused to allow the family to have any organized search of the valley floor as well. Why~??)


http://www.mmarray.org/~rick/html/SAR/Missions/2006June27.txt
On 06-27-06, an off duty Santa Ana Fire Dept. Paramedic was descending the main Mt. Whitney trail when he came across a 52 year old female suffering from hypothermia and possibly high altitude sickness. A fast moving storm had rained and hailed in the higher elevations of the Sierra Crest catching Sabina Wong from San Diego unprepared. Fire Paramedic Steve Solomon requested help via satellite phone. He and another person carried Wong from the 99 switch back area to Trail Camp. Solomon was able to stabilize Wong and keep her warm. A Sequoia National Park helicopter was at the Lone Pine Airport waiting for the storm to pass so they could fly back over the crest. They were requested to assist as soon as the weather cooperated. A short time later, Wong was extracted from Trail Camp and flown to Southern Inyo Hospital. She was in stable condition, treated and later released.

http://www.mmarray.org/cgi-bin/SAR/SARmissionView.pl
(I believe that SAR Sergeant Keith Hardcastle supervised both searches)

[Inyo Native]

This canyon complex is a high use area with substantial vehicular traffic.
Since no physical evidence was located to indicate Fox had walked out of the canyon, or into a joining area, the search was suspended.

I still don't see what the rationale was for suspending the search, especially if they found no evidence that Renee had walked out of the canyon. It seems to me they should have intensified the search based on that information- because she had to be there somewhere! Suspending the search after 4 days is a little premature, especially since the majority of that search was conducted by air.

[tandarat]

Hmmm....so they reacted quickly when someone was in trouble and there was an off-duty paramedic WITH that person. So....was that because they believed it was serious because a paramedic told them so, or was it because they knew that if they didn't go in there, they'd be in deep doo-doo because they knew that a paramedic would be pretty P.O.'d if they were lazy about it?

Makes you wonder.

And how, may I ask, did they absolutely KNOW those were Renee's footprints at both mines? Dogs aren't perfect, and I'd like to know what they used to get hre scent. Something the family offered? Her purse, which had been handled by others? Something from her car, which someone else may have handled (i.e. owner of the footprints by the mines)?

Did they take impressions or photos of those footprints? was it obvious they were women's shoes, or could they have come from a man?

And, please, someone tell me this...how HARD is it to search a flat, straight shot to/from town and canyon? Really, how hard?

And to answer Inyo's question regarding rain...yes, it does make sense. Especially considering the condition of the grass and plants (many dead or dying) and the time of the photograph. I don't have the info in front of me (it is at work), but a storm front (monsoon?) came through all of Owens Valley in July. I know there was some rain around the 4th, and then again in late July...one of those times there was relatively high humidity (two days reached 100% average, and others the average was no less than the high 60's, meaning there was definite rain for a couple of days, and probably off-and-on showers throughout the valley the rest of that week. I'm thinking it WAS the first week of July, because I remember thinking that the timeframe would be right to allow the plants and grasses to germinate, mature, and begin to die off by August 10th.

Does anyone have a pretty good idea of where her car was found? Would they be able to point it out on a map?

I got a lot more questions (I'm sure we all do), but I'm kinda tired and cranky today.

[cabojenn]

Good question about the shoes. How did they know they were hers? Last I heard, Renee's shoes have never been found. Eye witnesses say she was wearing tennis shoes. Don't most people wear em' or boots when in the desert?

Not sure, but I think the dogs used the scent from her wallet.

And apparently, it MUST be pretty hard to search a flat area on foot because LE and their 'trained search people' were unable to. :chicken: :chicken: :chicken:

I'm in a bad mood too. And I am sorry, but I don't know where the car was. LetsBeConcerned might know, and if needed may correct what I just posted. Been out of the loop for several weeks.

[Results]

I don't ever post in here but I do come and read for any updates. Don't ever stop looking for the answers if you don't think they fit. The only reason that I am posting tonight is several people asked me about this thread. Some members are not familiar where the threads are if that case does not have their own thread. I am sure if you ask FW to open a thread for Renee she most certainly would and these members that want to find this thread will have easy access to it. I felt you should know that there are members looking for this thread.

BTW the picture of the memorial is beautiful! :rose:

[curiousfriend]

:flamemad: :no: Did you not read anything on the last 7 pages before you decided to open your ignorant mouth and say those things on here? Renee had some problems yes, but she was getting her life turned back around and making things right. Otherwise do you think she would have been able to graduate from Pierce College, literally right before she went missing? She was a kind girl, who may have had a bad sense of direction, but whom was also extremely intelligent and had a strong and sensible head on her shoulders. Who also loved her son and family more than anything, and knowing that I know she would have never put herself in that type of danger knowingly - by that I'm stating possibly being led or picked up by someone she thought she should be able to trust. I believe that more so, because if she didn't take a ride from a family with children, then that tells you, she wasn't going to take a ride from just anyone. So please keep your hurtful, unkind words to yourself :rose:

[Inyo Native]

That is one think that upsets me the most about this investigation- the sentiment that meth users don't matter, like they're not human. It's one comment I've heard often, "But I heard she was a meth addict." I have even heard this from former meth addicts! That doesn't mean her death doesn't matter. Even if it WAS her fault she died, if she DID die from a meth overdose (and it is my opinion that it wasn't the sole cause of death), that doesn't mean the Inyo Sheriff's Office is free from blame. They had the opportunity and responsibility to save her, having been notified of her presence and strange behavior in the desert during a heat advisory. The fact she was just down the road from the Sheriff's deputy on duty (sure, she was 5 miles down the road, but it was a straight shot from the jail) makes it even worse. Of course, the Sheriff's Office took advantage of this negative perception against drug abusers and further attempted to dehumanize her, shifting the majority of the blame on Renee and her drug use. Nobody seems to realize her drug use is somewhat irrelevant- they overlook the fact that she could have been saved had a deputy checked on her that evening.

[Inyo Native]

BTW: Some Inyo County LE officers have been known to visit online message boards and antagonize those who post about problems regarding the police. And Larry W brings to mind "Larry Wilcox"- the actor from CHiPs. Rather obvious, don't you think? Just my speculation, of course.

[Inyo Native]

One good way to deal with "flamers" (people who post simply to antagonize others) is to add the user to your ignore list. Click on the person's username, then click "View public Profile" and there you can click on "Add username to your ignore list." From then on, their messages will not be displayed while you are logged in. If curiousity ever gets the best of you, you could always remove the user from your ignore list. :)

[Inyo Native]

I emailed another local about it and just thought I'd post her reply (verbatim):

how horrible but we really dont like tourists you know cuz of all the traffic and lines and such but we do depend on them, and what he doesn't know is alot of people here are actually behind her family and not only that it doesn't take a city person to bring meth into this county. We have a little thing called the internet which will teach you how to make it and kids who have lived here all their lives make it and sell it, tell him dont go taking his agression out on those message boards it's not Renees fault [removed inflammatory content]

[Results]

You need to calm down. I have been a big supporter of Tim Miller for years because I am from Texas. Tim Miller does not lie and Tim Miller cannot search an area if the LE agencies tells him he can't. He was already there why not let him do his job and let him search where he wanted to? One instance an LE Officer told Tim Miller they had been through an area no need to search it. Tim Miller asked if his team could search it anyways. The LE Officer said if you want to waste your time go ahead. Tim Miller found the body in that area that LE searched. Tim Miller is good at what he does and his team so therefore why not let them search it? Renee Fox would have been surely found by Tim Miller's team if she was there then and if they would have been allowed to search. THEY ARE GOOD AND MOST IMPORTANTLY THEY CARE! That conduct speaks volumes for me. Goodday! JMHO

[LarryW]

Results,
From your post count I can see that this is all you have to do in your life to keep you busy. Nosing around in other peoples business and stirring up a witches brew of distrust in our local authorities.

The authorities probably did not want a bunch of people stomping all over the desert ruining any eveidence that may still be out there. Ever think of that? And this guy from Texas, Miller? Who is he to come here and jump in the way of an ongoing investigation? And I noticed that he wanted money which all of you "good people" donated to. LOL... What a bunch of suckers! Hey I bulid model airplanes too... I wish I could get payed for it.

You need to let the authorities do their job and stay out of the way. Otherwise you are NEVER going to find out what really happened out there. We have people coming up here all the time getting lost, getting killed, killing each other and a whole slew of other problems that a small town invironment really doesn't need to deal with. If all you people did was come up here to enjoy the scenery and fish and hunt, things would be different. But you don't. You come up here and do drugs and drink too much and get way out of hand and then the "locals' have to deal with the aftermath.

I am tiring of this conversation now... And what the heck is someone from the other side of the country doing getting involved in this?

Again you people need to go get a life. People do stupid things and they die. That's it. Nothing more...

[Inyo Native]

Here's an update on Shaleen's case, for what it's worth.
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_415.shtml

Almost 6 months ago, the body of Bishop's Shaleen Duckey was discovered in a field off Barlow Lane. To assure a top notch investigation, local Sheriff's officers called in Department of Justice forensics technicians. The problem now - the DOJ lab has still not fully reviewed evidence and submitted a final report.

32 year old Shaleen Duckey, missing this past summer, was found dead.

Inyo Sheriff's Detective Marston Mottweiler calls the DOJ lab on a regular basis to urge them to wrap up this local case. Mottweiler said he recently contacted the DOJ lab. He said, "They report they're working on evidence now but no report is available."

Mottweiler said that while the Duckey case is of great interest and priority to us here, the DOJ has many other priorities. The detective called this delay in finality of the death case "really unfortunate." He said local officers, out of an abundance of caution, want to wait until all of the evidence is evaluated and they have the reports in hand before concluding publicly on the cause of Ms. Duckey's death.


It's not the overabundance of caution that upsets many people about Shaleen's case. It's their unwillingness to suggest foul play was involved, while they have no problem suggesting she could have died by "accident" or "suicide."

[cabojenn]

I feel much sympathy for Shaleen's family. It is bad enough for someone you love to pass away...but when there is no explanation, it's even harder. I truly hope they have resolution soon, and that no-one is mocking their pain and anguish.

[curiousfriend]

Sorry that youre having to go through the run around up there too, it's such a shame! I hope you get some answers that are truthful soon!

[cabojenn]

You've been PM'd. Oh, and thanks for helping me to decide what to make for dinner. Pea soup always sounds good when its cold (yes it gets cold here).
:seeya:

[tlembo]

Well this does nothing more than prove a point on how far off all you people are with all your speculating. First of all YES I read all seven pages and about barfed when I got to page 5 and read that Law Enforcement was responsible for protecting you idiots from yourselves... I about fell off my chair with that one...

And the sole from an old shoe among a debis pile shows how little you know "curious friend". That sole is about 100 years old. I find them all the time when exploring old mining camps you dunderhead. What? You think I killed someone 100 years ago or better and went back last summer and photographed the deceased person's shoe sole? And no my name is not Larry Wilcox. Getting warm though.

And yes you better believe that the authorities are reading what is being posted here just to see what's gotten into the family and why they want to persue this rediculous lawsuit. By the way it doesn't stand a chance in hell of getting through court.

And if you had read my post for what it says and not the little movie going on inside your little pea brain "inyo native", you would see that I never said meth users aren't human. Well actually their brains are so fried that they really shouldn't be considered human anymore but that's beside the point. The point is that when you decide to mess with ILLEGAL DANGEROUS DRUGS,
you are going to suffer some consequenses. That is what I said... But your little pea brain only got what it saw going on in the movie and not what I actually posted...

Again you are all idiots and you prove it time and time again with your posts...

If any of you actually had any brains you would be doing something else with them besides proving how stupid you are. Is there anyone out there reading this garbage that agrees with me or is this just another place for Jerry Springer fans to hang out?I hope the people that know what’s going on here doesn’t take offend to this but I can’t help myself----Larry W- how dare you come here and start with you unheartful comments. You have no idea what is going on here or do you know something we don’t? The only reason local law would be looking in here or someone like yourself is because they are concerned about finding out the truth or are hiding something and scared that the truth will come out. How could any person be as naive as you? As you think that Renee was just a meth head and just wondered in the desert to become disoriented take off her clothes including her shoes in the rugged terrain drop her purse with $ and then go OD under a tree naked and cross her arms. Who is the real idiot here? No women no matter how high would leave there purse behind- a women’s purse is her life! Her purse was in the middle of the road – first clue (my opinion)- I think she was abducted and while fighting to get away and to not be pulled into the car let go of her purse. 2nd clue- LE did not let a highly trained search team search the road where she was last seen by the 4 Byers or even where the dogs lost her scent by the mine. Because they say they already searched that area. (Why? Are they trying to hide something?) 3rd- Were in the heck are her clothes (except pants found near her body) and shoes, if she became so disoriented as LE says then where is the trail of her clothes or water bottles left behind. LE can’t seem to find them, and say NO FOUL PLAY. Ok 4th- the postcard sent to the local paper- have you seen it? It was singed by Elliot Ness- sounds like someone was sending a message that local law enforcement is corrupt out there. 5th- If Renee was that close to the road for that long how could no one have seen her or smelled the odor from her remains. If you look at the pictures from Inyo Native you will see that she could have been seen from the road! (In a ravine- YA right) 6th- (my opinion) She had to be waiting for somebody to not ask the people who stopped to ask for help as to call a tow truck or to even tell them that her car was broke down and yes needed a ride back to town (no threat in car with family and kids). Someone was coming but whom? 7th- it took over 20 hrs from the first report of 2 that a women was wondering in the desert and to please go check on her because they were concerned about her being alone out there- Independence is a small town how busy could they have been? They went and checked on her the next day (or did they go earlier?) after her purse was reported being found. They have already admitted blame for the dispatcher not reporting it. I could go on and on with all the holes in this case. Anyway anyone with common sense can say something is wrong, something wrong happened here. Larry didn’t you know that the only reason we come up to party there is because some of your people out there are some of the biggest meth makers? Maybe if LE got off their a’’es and cracked down on them, people wouldn’t come up there to get there supply or is LE making a profit too? -ok a little to far, but apparently you have no life as well since you were looking in here yourself! My Renee rest in peace and the truth be heard.

[cabojenn]

"All Renee did was pass thru town, and make a wrong turn. From what I understand, it can happen to anyone. Her car broke down, and she tried to walk back to the safety of your beloved town. She clearly never made it.

There are pieces missing from the puzzle. If this was your daughter, sister, cousin, mother or friend, you would want to know what happened. You'd beg anyone to help you, and everyone to hear you.

Renee was not worthless. She was having a bad year and made a bad choice, then ended up in Inyo County. If you'd have met her, you would not be doing this mean thing by coming here and trying to scare people away from seeking truth; truth that does not seem to come from the LE. If you care about your community, then you'd seek truth as well."

[tandarat]

Lordy....

My hard drive crashes and look what happens! Well, looks like our friend Larry got banned. Too bad....I was hoping he would end up saying something really stupid, not just the same ol' same ol' trolls spout off to tick everyone off.

I am curious, though...why this board and none of the others? I know of at least one, possibly two, other websites that have active, or semi-active discussions going on.

And, of COURSE LE would be watching these boards. I'd hope they weren't THAT incompetent. I haven't seen anything here that would actually discredit a lawsuit...the only real help is that it would give the defense a heads-up of what some of the arguments would be. Heck, just reading press releases and hearing press conferences makes it pretty clear LE is at least keeping one eye on what is said about this whole thing online...a lot of the points made seem tailor-made for the points brought up in online discussions.

And for the record...I truly don't know WHAT the truth is at this point. For all I know this was an accidental death, unattended death. There are too many questions to take that answer for granted. I have enough suspicions to want more answers. If I died under suspicious circumstances, I'd want someone to have the same concerns.

Remember: the 911 welfare calls came in before LE had any idea who she was, including her past. She was someone alone in the desert who obviously was out of her element. Period. Would Inyo Co. LE treat ME the same way, who truthfully only tried illegal drugs once, in college (MJ, if you must know), and couldn't get into it. I rarely even drink, anymore, due to health issues, and before that I had maybe a glass of wine or two a few days a week. I have a clean record...not even a traffic ticket (knock on wood). I, too, can have bad direction (comes and goes :)), and on top of everything else, I have severe health problems that would complicate any typical issues you would have with exposure to heat and sun, and some of those (partial seizures) can severely limit my ability to communicate. I guess if I happen to need to drive through Inyo Co. for any reason (whether or not I intend to stop), I should keep fingers and toes crossed I don't break down, and I don't get lost. Good to know. I'll be sure to pass it on to anyone else I know travelling that way.

You know, the more I learned about the county, the more I wanted to visit...I am a history buff, and love exploring ghost towns, old mines, and just hiking in general. I was hoping to get enough control over my sun and heat sensitivities to be able to visit during the cooler months. It is relatively close, as well...less than 4 hours in "good" traffic. If this is typical of Inyo Co. residents, though, I guess I'll pass. If they couldn't care less if I lived or died (or, worse, hoped, however slightly, that I WOULD die), then they obviously don't need my money.

[LetsBeConcerned]

And yes you better believe that the authorities are reading what is being posted here just to see what's gotten into the family and why they want to persue this rediculous lawsuit. By the way it doesn't stand a chance in hell of getting through court.

Since you are SO concerned about the authorities reading this, may I suggest that the authorities contact Renee’s immediate family directly? The immediate family has not posted here, nor anywhere on the Internet, and the authorities HAVE told them not to call~!!

If the authorities are SO concerned about what is going on with the family, may I suggest a VERY novel idea to the authorities, pick up the phone and call Renee’s mother and her brothers.

Renee’s family is not aware of any court action being filed on Renee’s behalf. This not to say that the Grand Jury could be looking into the sheriff’s Dept., just Renee’s family is not aware of anything~!! No One from Inyo County has called them.

The authorities probably did not want a bunch of people stomping all over the desert ruining any eveidence that may still be out there.
If the Inyo authorities were worried about evidence being “stomped on” the authorities would have closed the canyon. There is a gate right where the pavement ends and it could have been easily done. Yet they continued to allow tourists in the canyon but NOT Equusearch, a professional search company.

It was Inyo County that stopped searching for Renee and it was her family that called EquuSearch. Renee’s family was not going to stop searching, simply because the sheriff’s did. Again, if the sheriff’s were worried about preserving evidence, they would have NOT stopped searching so soon. They also should have allowed Equusearch in the canyon if they were so certain that nothing could be found. What did the authorities have to lose~??

There are civil servants that have the job to serve and protect. And I want to give an example… My 91-year-old great aunt was not heard from for 3 days, she did not answer her phone or door…Good Samaritans called 911 to do a “wellness check”. The police came out and broke into her house to find her lying on the bathroom floor. They called the paramedics. My aunt had slipped out of the shower and broke her back. They had literally saved her life and prevented her from being paralyzed~!! My aunt went on to live for several more years.

When my family went to thank the police, firemen and paramedics, they told us they were only doing their job and were happy to do so~!!! They also said that there was really no thanks necessary, because that was their JOB~!! That was ALL that they were doing, their JOB~!! I again want to thank the Arcadia, CA authorities for saving my great aunt~!!! Also for their concern and compassion for her and others~!!

Inyo County authorities need to start communicating with Renee’s biological family and call them. Talk to them personally, I am sure that they would be glad to hear from the authorities in charge~!!

[cabojenn]

You know...that has always bothered me.

Renee was living with her mom; LE would not talk to Renee's mom. Renee was close with her siblings; LE would not talk to Renee's siblings.

Did they actually talk to anyone that knew her? Did they talk to anyone that was truly concerned about her whereabouts?

They searched an hour here, and hour there...dogs lost her scent in the middle of the canyon..."she could be anywhere"...newspapers quoted them as saying it looked like her purse flew out the back of a truck..."she could be anywhere"..."definately not in the area"... Crazy postcards taunting everyone as if to say, look here, look there...and were there really only two?

Family says, we feel it deep inside, she's there, let us look. LE says, no way. Go ahead and look near the busy highway ...

She was there.

Then there are the press conferences held by LE. :seeya: (waving cause I heard you like to read this thread). They tell the media... whatever...none of use knew about conferences or what the findings were because ..........
...............

They have never wanted to communicate with the people that LOVED Renee.

Renee's mother would probably have to read what LE said in a newspaper. :no:

So sad.

[cabojenn]

http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_130.shtml

“Brune said that nothing at the scene revealed anything about the cause of death of the person discovered.”

Didn’t their last statement say there were “satchels” everywhere? Wouldn’t that be a clue? Of course no one knew about the alleged satchels until the press conference. Didn't their last statement also say she died the way they thought she did? :flamemad:

[cabojenn]

http://www.cji.net/CJI/CenterInfo/fscec/Recovery.htm

This is an interesting site that discusses the procedures involved in the discovery of human remains. One of the things mentioned by the coroner was body fluids in the soil, and how deep the fluids were. If it had rained up there, which it had, then the fluids would of course be deeper in the soil, right? I wonder if whoever did the summarizing took this into account, and did he/she also collect soil from an area near the body to compare with the soil under it?

From what I understand, and I could be wrong, there was no evidence of animal interference with Renee’s body.

Wonder if the person that found Renee may have inadvertently walked thru the area that would normally be considered off limits for grid purposes.

Was all evidence placed in its own paper bag?

Is the coroner a forensic specialist with a Ph.D. in physical/biological anthropology with education and experience in the recovery, identification and evaluation of human remains?

[Inyo Native]

I also read somewhere (I probably already mentioned this) that methamphetamine has been known to distort the methods used to determine the time of death. It was always a red flag to me that the coroner was able to narrow the time of death to a specific date- the evening Renee disappeared. I didn't see how that could be possible. I could see narrowing it to a specific week, but the actual day? It doesn't make sense.

[cabojenn]

http://www.sierrawave.tv/streams.php

There is a broadcast available till about 4pm today (pacific time) that takes forever to download showing how Renee's memorial has grown since December.

The segment about Renee is about half way thru.

[Inyo Native]

Here is an article too:
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_462.shtml

...Now, a memorial of religious and personal momentos stands in the desert to mark Fox's death. Wayne Deja of Lone Pine did much of the work at the memorial. He said that he could relate to Fox’s troubles. “Some people said she was a drug user and doesn’t count for much,” said Deja. “I wanted to show that she was a person and deserves respect and consideration.” Deja installed a solar light that illumines the memorial at night.

Family members said that the Meeks' family, who had seen Fox in the mountains, made the sign at the memorial.

It's a startling assortment of color, emotion, religious offerings set in the grey, dusty desert. A path, lined in rocks starts at the road and goes directly to the memorial.

Tracy Somes, sister-in-law of Fox, said that the memorial sits right on the spot where the young woman's body was finally discovered. She said the family has not yet gone to the memorial. She said it's still too hard to face and family members, she said, still wonder why it took so long to find Renee Fox's body.

I believe Wayne Deja also wrote a letter to the editor to the Inyo Register. I'll try to post it sometime soon.

[curiousfriend]

http://www.cji.net/CJI/CenterInfo/fscec/Recovery.htm

This is an interesting site that discusses the procedures involved in the discovery of human remains. One of the things mentioned by the coroner was body fluids in the soil, and how deep the fluids were. If it had rained up there, which it had, then the fluids would of course be deeper in the soil, right? I wonder if whoever did the summarizing took this into account, and did he/she also collect soil from an area near the body to compare with the soil under it?

From what I understand, and I could be wrong, there was no evidence of animal interference with Renee’s body.

Wonder if the person that found Renee may have inadvertently walked thru the area that would normally be considered off limits for grid purposes.

Was all evidence placed in its own paper bag?

Is the coroner a forensic specialist with a Ph.D. in physical/biological anthropology with education and experience in the recovery, identification and evaluation of human remains?

That link was very interesting was anything stated in there actually done in regards to Renee's case?

[cabojenn]

That link was very interesting was anything stated in there actually done in regards to Renee's case?

I can't answer that without making an assumption either way, I just don't know. Most smaller counties do not have specialists; they do not have enough cases to pay for it.


“Experts have shown that heavy methamphetamine users, those who do
two to four grams a week, can suffer serious brain damage. Heavy meth
use has been shown to be the equivalent of 40 years of aging,
affecting movement and memory.”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/05/04/MN281636.DTL

The coroner said she had about 5 miligrams of meth (less actually) and THAT was a VERY lethal amount.

Huh?

[cabojenn]

I can't answer that without making an assumption either way, I just don't know. Most smaller counties do not have specialists; they do not have enough cases to pay for it.


“Experts have shown that heavy methamphetamine users, those who do
two to four grams a week, can suffer serious brain damage. Heavy meth
use has been shown to be the equivalent of 40 years of aging,
affecting movement and memory.”
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/05/04/MN281636.DTL

The coroner said she had about 5 miligrams of meth (less actually) and THAT was a VERY lethal amount.

Huh?

I guess my point is this, a heavy meth user will go thru 2-4 grams in a week, right? Usually in a binge of 24-72 hours. So Renee having less than 5 MILIgrams of KILOgrams in her system does not give us cunclusive evidence that she died of an overdose. 5 mg would barely have an effect on her or any adult. THIS DOES NOT MEAN I THINK IT WAS OKAY THAT SHE DID METH...in any amount.

As far as whether or not the LE/coroner followed proper procedures in the recovery, my GUESS is no. I posted the info earlier because something sat funny with me. I'll get back to you on it.

[Results]

Results,
From your post count I can see that this is all you have to do in your life to keep you busy. Nosing around in other peoples business and stirring up a witches brew of distrust in our local authorities. (my post count just shows I care and the distrust in "your local authorities" did that all by themselves they didn't need any help with that)
The authorities probably did not want a bunch of people stomping all over the desert ruining any eveidence that may still be out there. Ever think of that? And this guy from Texas, Miller? Who is he to come here and jump in the way of an ongoing investigation? And I noticed that he wanted money which all of you "good people" donated to. LOL... What a bunch of suckers! Hey I bulid model airplanes too... I wish I could get payed for it. (Tim Miller is a Father who's daughter was murdered and he has dedicated HIS LIFE to help the many missing families search for their loved ones something you would no nothing about and Tim Miller accepts donations so that he can help the many missing daughters, sons, mothers, fathers, friends, all loved ones to someone. Trust me you lose someone you would beg for him too! I know I would)
You need to let the authorities do their job and stay out of the way. Otherwise you are NEVER going to find out what really happened out there. We have people coming up here all the time getting lost, getting killed, killing each other and a whole slew of other problems that a small town invironment really doesn't need to deal with. If all you people did was come up here to enjoy the scenery and fish and hunt, things would be different. But you don't. You come up here and do drugs and drink too much and get way out of hand and then the "locals' have to deal with the aftermath. (according to you no skin off your back you care now?)
I am tiring of this conversation now... And what the heck is someone from the other side of the country doing getting involved in this? (it is our right to get involved that is why 1,000's of our soldiers our dying everyday for our freedom appreciate it always and never take it for granted and most people losing a battle always comes back with a lame excuse)
Again you people need to go get a life. People do stupid things and they die. That's it. Nothing more... (remember these words because one day they might just come back to bite you in your azz)

All bold statements are of my opinion and my opinion only!

[FDInLaw]

Hi! First time posting here. After reading several pages, I'm confused how anyone could come to the conclusion that Renee was not a victim of foul play. :cool:

For Renee's family and friends, I'm so sorry for your loss and I pray that the answers you seek will be found soon. ~ FD

:rose:

[phynickyb]

Hi! First time posting here. After reading several pages, I'm confused how anyone could come to the conclusion that Renee was not a victim of foul play. :cool:

For Renee's family and friends, I'm so sorry for your loss and I pray that the answers you seek will be found soon. ~ FD

:rose:

FD...Thanks for your post. The answers are not there. LE refuses to speak with her family. The thing that gets me, is that she was found 20 ft off the road she was last seen on, in an area the LE had searched, in a ravine (not really, but that is what LE stated...look at some of the posted pics of where she was found), she was found on her back, arms folded in front of her, cloths missing (never found). The coroner even stated that no animals had begun to ravage her (sorry to be so graphic). How would that be??? After 7 weeks not even covered by brush or a tree??? Too many questions. Not much closure.

[FDInLaw]

FD...Thanks for your post. The answers are not there. LE refuses to speak with her family. The thing that gets me, is that she was found 20 ft off the road she was last seen on, in an area the LE had searched, in a ravine (not really, but that is what LE stated...look at some of the posted pics of where she was found), she was found on her back, arms folded in front of her, cloths missing (never found). The coroner even stated that no animals had begun to ravage her (sorry to be so graphic). How would that be??? After 7 weeks not even covered by brush or a tree??? Too many questions. Not much closure.

Has there been any involvement by the State Police? If not, I'd push to get a higher authority involved. The local police appear to be incompetent or covering something up. JMO

[Inyo Native]

In Inyo County, they have a special unit- INET, to catch drug dealers, or rather- those who are transporting drugs through the county. Highway 395 is a major drug route, so they do take that little war on drugs very seriously and spend a large amount of money on it.

This is just my opinion, but I don't really think drugs have anything to do with the cover-up, and that they breathed a sigh of relief when they found out Renee had some in her system (because it would make them look better in the eye of the public). I think it has more to do with the fact they realized they could be held liable if she was discovered deceased, because they had been notified of her presence, and failed to check on her. They probably hoped she would never be found, because then there would be no conclusive evidence that she died in their county because of their negligence. They obviously failed to conduct a thorough search, because they would have found her if they did. I mean, anyone who visits Renee's memorial will be able to see that, I myself was shocked. It's almost impossible that they could not have found her, if she was there the whole time.

Is there a way to get the state police involved? It seems like a lot of the law enforcement agencies are all pretty cozy with each other, but I really wouldn't know, that's just my impression.

[tandarat]

Not sure, but I would guess that if she was found on state-owned land, or was last seen on state-owned land, it should be pretty easy. If either was federal property (national park), the FBI should have been involved.

Worth looking into, anyway. I'm guessing there must be some avenue the family can pursue to file a complaint about the way the case was handled, and how they were treated.

[FDInLaw]

If in fact the local authorities are not communicating with the family, it really leaves the family with two options. . . give up hope of ever getting answers OR do everything in their power to bring media attention to Renee's case and seek help from the State Police. If it were me, I would not back down. Renee is dead and it was very obviously foul play. . . keeping fighting for justice!

My thoughts and prayers are with Renee's loved ones. Is there any way those of us on here can help out?
:(

[FDInLaw]

What happened to Cabojenn?

:confused:

[cabojenn]

What happened to Cabojenn?

:confused:

In bed sick. Still sick. Going back home soon, then to have blood work done. Ahhh, the joys of living in a "developing" country; so many various mystery illnesses to choose from.

Haven't spoke to family in the States for about two weeks so I don't know if there is anything new. As far as media attention, ANS seems to be the only interest and before her, JBR. :(

[cabojenn]

What happened to Cabojenn?

:confused:

In bed sick. Still sick. Going back home soon, then to have blood work done. Ahhh, the joys of living in a "developing" country; so many various mystery illnesses to choose from.

Haven't spoke to family in the States for about two weeks so I don't know if there is anything new. As far as media attention, ANS seems to be the only interest and before her, JBR. :(

[FDInLaw]

In bed sick. Still sick. Going back home soon, then to have blood work done. Ahhh, the joys of living in a "developing" country; so many various mystery illnesses to choose from.

Haven't spoke to family in the States for about two weeks so I don't know if there is anything new. As far as media attention, ANS seems to be the only interest and before her, JBR. :(

Sorry to hear you're laid up. . . prayers for a quick recovery! I know all about living in a "developing" country. . . we'll have to trade horror stories when your feeling better.

Feel better soon! :rose:

:seeya:

[phynickyb]

In bed sick. Still sick. Going back home soon, then to have blood work done. Ahhh, the joys of living in a "developing" country; so many various mystery illnesses to choose from.

Haven't spoke to family in the States for about two weeks so I don't know if there is anything new. As far as media attention, ANS seems to be the only interest and before her, JBR. :(

Jen, sorry to hear you have been so sick. So you are coming home? I doubt that I will be able to make it out there to see you, but very much enjoyed catching up with you at Renee's services (even with the grim circumstances). Give all of the family big hugs and kisses for me.

I have been trying to get all of the copies of the articles written from the Inyo County Register and have not yet heard back from Mike Gervais, whom I was directed to. Hopefully soon!

Do you know if anyone has ever heard what type or how extensive an investigation happened with the post cards that were sent to the FBI?:shrug:

[Inyo Native]

I think they pretty much consider the case closed in Inyo County. People there don't believe the police would lie or distort the facts, so only those who go online (and those I talk to) are really aware of how suspcious everything is, and that the dosage in Renee's blood wasn't necessarily lethal.

[Inyo Native]

I have been trying to get all of the copies of the articles written from the Inyo County Register and have not yet heard back from Mike Gervais, whom I was directed to. Hopefully soon!


Have you had any luck with this? I would not be surprised if they drag their feet on this, as the articles were not all that favorable towards Renee and exaggerated the efforts of the LE to find her.

Gervais is also the person who wrote the final two articles regarding the final reports by the local police (posted on this board a few pages back). These articles were full of errors and heavily biased.

[phynickyb]

Have you had any luck with this? I would not be surprised if they drag their feet on this, as the articles were not all that favorable towards Renee and exaggerated the efforts of the LE to find her.

Gervais is also the person who wrote the final two articles regarding the final reports by the local police (posted on this board a few pages back). These articles were full of errors and heavily biased.

Still no reply. I am not sure why they would not be willing to provide such information as it everything was published for the public in the first place. Thank you again for your local insights.

[curiousfriend]

Does anyone know if the family considers this a closed case and are just accepting things the way they lay or are they still pursuing the investigation with the Detective that the hired previously ?:rose:

[RPFlight]

I have just caught up on the posts since December and noticed several that have asked if we actually did photograph the area where Renee was found. I can assure, had we photographed that area, we would have found her. Sadly, neither myself or Mike (the pilot with the full size aircraft) took any of that area.

I've stated before, but I'll state again. Mr. Bedell gave me a direct order to not search the canyon or the approaches to it. I asked him THREE times to give me a firm directive, and he did so. There are many posters here that participated in the search I did direct through Texas Equusearch and they can attest that we performed an orderly and thorough search of the area from the highway to approximately 100 yards from the road. This effort covered approximately 5 miles (from Manzanars Reward toward Independence) in the heat of July. This is typical protocol for a TES search. Members of the advance team will also attest that my first order of search was to be the canyon road and the canyon approaches. The drone would have been use to photograph either side of the road from the pavement end to the canyon approach. That did not happen.

As for the "stomping around destroying evidence", the search volunteers will also attest that I gave them very specific instructions on preserving ANYTHING that could be evidence in the case. Again, TES search protocol.

Sadly, I have to admit that I stopped several times at the mining structure on the right of the road several times to study maps and plan my search. I was very likely within 100 yards of her. The prevailing winds were from the south, away from the road and us. Had the wind been in the other direction, I feel sure I would have detected that scent.

I have many personal "woulda, coulda, shoulda's" on my own participation in this case. It would not have changed to outcome any and many questions would remain. I can only take comfort in the fact that someone did complete the mission we started out on and finally brought Renee home.

My prayers are with Renee's family - they are good people just searching for the truth.

Gene

[cabojenn]

Sorry to hear you're laid up. . . prayers for a quick recovery! I know all about living in a "developing" country. . . we'll have to trade horror stories when your feeling better.

Feel better soon! :rose:

:seeya:

Salmonella, Amoebas, there were anti-bodies that Doc. didn't want to investigate, he said it was impossible and a fluke and the next set of blood work should show I'm clean of everythin, head cold, and now I'm down to one arm; don't know how I hurt my shoulder yesterday...

Month behind at the office, a theme of mine since last summer...and so glad to see people are still asking questions.

[cabojenn]

Jen, sorry to hear you have been so sick. So you are coming home? I doubt that I will be able to make it out there to see you, but very much enjoyed catching up with you at Renee's services (even with the grim circumstances). Give all of the family big hugs and kisses for me.

I have been trying to get all of the copies of the articles written from the Inyo County Register and have not yet heard back from Mike Gervais, whom I was directed to. Hopefully soon!

Do you know if anyone has ever heard what type or how extensive an investigation happened with the post cards that were sent to the FBI?:shrug:

Won't see the entie family. You know how spread out we are. I had scanned copies from the Inyo Register but that computer crashed recently.

And I can't answer the last question...I'll email someone who might know more.

[FDInLaw]

Salmonella, Amoebas, there were anti-bodies that Doc. didn't want to investigate, he said it was impossible and a fluke and the next set of blood work should show I'm clean of everythin, head cold, and now I'm down to one arm; don't know how I hurt my shoulder yesterday...

Month behind at the office, a theme of mine since last summer...and so glad to see people are still asking questions.


Good grief! Now your arm? Hope you are 100% soon! :seeya:

Please keep updating this board. . . I personally don't have much to say, but I do check here daily.

[Inyo Native]

I have just caught up on the posts since December and noticed several that have asked if we actually did photograph the area where Renee was found. I can assure, had we photographed that area, we would have found her. Sadly, neither myself or Mike (the pilot with the full size aircraft) took any of that area.

I've stated before, but I'll state again. Mr. Bedell gave me a direct order to not search the canyon or the approaches to it. I asked him THREE times to give me a firm directive, and he did so. There are many posters here that participated in the search I did direct through Texas Equusearch and they can attest that we performed an orderly and thorough search of the area from the highway to approximately 100 yards from the road. This effort covered approximately 5 miles (from Manzanars Reward toward Independence) in the heat of July. This is typical protocol for a TES search. Members of the advance team will also attest that my first order of search was to be the canyon road and the canyon approaches. The drone would have been use to photograph either side of the road from the pavement end to the canyon approach. That did not happen.

As for the "stomping around destroying evidence", the search volunteers will also attest that I gave them very specific instructions on preserving ANYTHING that could be evidence in the case. Again, TES search protocol.

Sadly, I have to admit that I stopped several times at the mining structure on the right of the road several times to study maps and plan my search. I was very likely within 100 yards of her. The prevailing winds were from the south, away from the road and us. Had the wind been in the other direction, I feel sure I would have detected that scent.

I have many personal "woulda, coulda, shoulda's" on my own participation in this case. It would not have changed to outcome any and many questions would remain. I can only take comfort in the fact that someone did complete the mission we started out on and finally brought Renee home.

My prayers are with Renee's family - they are good people just searching for the truth.

Gene

Wow. I really cannot imagine why they would not allow a search of the canyon. And why did they want people to search the area by the highway? My memory may be wrong, but I feel like I saw a creek/river along the drive, which Renee would have had to cross. Again, my memory may be faulty though. Either way, it just defies logic.

I don't know that you would have realized Renee was there, had the winds shifted. People ride bikes along that road, and none of the bikers seemed to notice anything, even though she was only a few feet away. And from what I've heard, there were flyers posted in the area about Renee's disappearance, so if anybody noticed a scent they probably would have investigated and/or reported it.

[cabojenn]

Wow. I really cannot imagine why they would not allow a search of the canyon. And why did they want people to search the area by the highway? My memory may be wrong, but I feel like I saw a creek/river along the drive, which Renee would have had to cross. Again, my memory may be faulty though. Either way, it just defies logic.

I don't know that you would have realized Renee was there, had the winds shifted. People ride bikes along that road, and none of the bikers seemed to notice anything, even though she was only a few feet away. And from what I've heard, there were flyers posted in the area about Renee's disappearance, so if anybody noticed a scent they probably would have investigated and/or reported it.


Maybe they wanted people to search the highway because Bedell was quoted as saying Renee was NOT in the canyon. She must've made it out because her purse looked to have been blown out the back of a truck and the search dogs lost her scent.

[Inyo Native]

Is it illegal for the police to lie to the media? Or merely unethical?

[phynickyb]

Not only that, if she weren't there the whole time, then no one would have caught her scent or would she have been in the pictures. IMO I firmly believe that to be a good chance. Hence not allowing the pics to be taken of that area, being proof that she was placed there later and a victim of foul play. Why, really would the area be "off limits" to professional searchers, but continue to be open to the public???

[tlembo]

Second time posting here (glad Larry is banned). I work with Renee's stepsister (Peggy). I did meet Renee years ago when Brooke was in Beauty Pagents. I recently went to Mammoth on 03/2/07 and on the way back made a stop on Mazourka 03/06/07. The memorial is beautiful and the sign is holding up very well. After passing the mine on the right side of the road we came along Renee's memorial no more than a mile farther on the left side of the road. I have to say I was SHOCKED:eek: and UPSET how close to the road she was, and how convient that a little side road lead to where she was found as well. IMO- I don't think Renee made a wrong turn down that road she would have turned around as soon as she hit the dirt. I don't care what LE says somthing IS foul here:flamemad: ! I have even submitted a e-mail to 48 hours to try and stir there intrest in this case but have had no response and even contacted LE to get a copy of the investgation since the case is closed, I was told that her mother would need to request that. Once a case is closed don't the records become public or is there some wating period does anyone know?. I truly hope the family does persure with this mystery and I would be willing to help in anyway. O yea one more mention at Mammoth we stayed with one of our friends with Fish and Game in Mono County at Hot Creek, alot of guys there say the LE are very hush hush about the 3 deaths, they stronly feel that LE is hiding something as they say they usually do out there. Has there been any update on Shaleen?

[tlembo]

Also my husband recorded the trip on Mazourka. I will try and figure out how to post a link to the video.

[cabojenn]

Second time posting here (glad Larry is banned). I work with Renee's stepsister (Peggy). I did meet Renee years ago when Brooke was in Beauty Pagents. I recently went to Mammoth on 03/2/07 and on the way back made a stop on Mazourka 03/06/07. The memorial is beautiful and the sign is holding up very well. After passing the mine on the right side of the road we came along Renee's memorial no more than a mile farther on the left side of the road. I have to say I was SHOCKED:eek: and UPSET how close to the road she was, and how convient that a little side road lead to where she was found as well. IMO- I don't think Renee made a wrong turn down that road she would have turned around as soon as she hit the dirt. I don't care what LE says somthing IS foul here:flamemad: ! I have even submitted a e-mail to 48 hours to try and stir there intrest in this case but have had no response and even contacted LE to get a copy of the investgation since the case is closed, I was told that her mother would need to request that. Once a case is closed don't the records become public or is there some wating period does anyone know?. I truly hope the family does persure with this mystery and I would be willing to help in anyway. O yea one more mention at Mammoth we stayed with one of our friends with Fish and Game in Mono County at Hot Creek, alot of guys there say the LE are very hush hush about the 3 deaths, they stronly feel that LE is hiding something as they say they usually do out there. Has there been any update on Shaleen?

Can't answer your question but had to comment how interesting it is that they told you my Aunt would have to request the information and not Renee's husband...as HE was the only one LE wanted to deal with as "legal" next of kin. It makes me laugh, even though it just isn't funny.

Thank you for stopping in to post and for visiting the memorial site. No one in our family has been able to go because it's still just too painfull.

[Inyo Native]

Here's the latest update on Shaleen, posted online today:
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_527.shtml

The Department of Justice has failed Inyo County. Sheriff's investigators called in DOJ when the body of Shaleen Duckey was found last August. DOJ still has not sent Inyo a final report on the cause of death. Something's just not working right.

[cabojenn]

i feel for her family. fact is (imo) they just don't care.

[tlembo]

thanks for the update on Shaleen, kinda same old story as last article, waiting for the DOJ. It was intresting for me as well about the mom response, I had already new about the whole "next of Kin" story. I haven't figured out the video thing yethttp://new.photos.yahoo.com/lembos@sbcglobal.net/album/576460762393736848/photo/294928804279957912/0

[Inyo Native]

I received some copies of earlier articles about Renee & Shaleen printed in the Inyo Register, which I will be posting sometime this week. The thing that struck me as odd is that the Inyo Register DID have a good picture of Renee (it was printed in one of the front-page articles) - yet they chose to use her driver's license photo for the articles printed in December 2006 which described her alleged drug use and downplayed the negligence of the Sheriff's Department.

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=8790181&postcount=196

[cabojenn]

I think Renee only ever took 5 bad photo's in her life...they easily could have printed others that actually looked like her; the ones they printed didn't ~ imo.

Anyone that has been to her myspace could see she was beautiful and really, the pictures they used...not a thing like my Nae Nae.

[Inyo Native]

I agree, she looks gorgeous in those photos on Myspace! She kind of reminds me of Portia De Rossi.

I posted some articles here (digital pictures, actually). I'm not sure if they're already available online elsewhere, I think I saw one article printed somewhere else- about the hitchiking-out-of-the-the-valley theory. They also did something similar with Shaleen's disappearance, although they eventually admitted things didn't add up. It's interesting to see how the law enforcement's story/theory kept changing, and how the local media portrayed Renee over time. I'm sure there's a few more articles but these are the only ones I have right now (I am also missing the second half of the July 11, 2006 article).

http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/InyoNative/Newspaper%20Articles/

[cabojenn]

I agree, she looks gorgeous in those photos on Myspace! She kind of reminds me of Portia De Rossi.

I posted some articles here (digital pictures, actually). I'm not sure if they're already available online elsewhere, I think I saw one article printed somewhere else- about the hitchiking-out-of-the-the-valley theory. They also did something similar with Shaleen's disappearance, although they eventually admitted things didn't add up. It's interesting to see how the law enforcement's story/theory kept changing, and how the local media portrayed Renee over time. I'm sure there's a few more articles but these are the only ones I have right now (I am also missing the second half of the July 11, 2006 article).

http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/InyoNative/Newspaper%20Articles/

thank you for the link

[cabojenn]

Easter week I was able to come home for a visit. I was unable to go up to the memorial that was made for Renee, but from what I understand it has really grown. This morming I heard something about a rose bush and some other plantings. It is really touching that people regulary visit the site even just to water the foliage!!!

Miscommunication made it impossible for me to see Renee's son which saddens me. I did however get to spend some time with my Auntie, Renee's mother, and one of her brothers.

After 10 months without her (including the time we still had hope before she was found), everyone puts up a good front, but I can tell you that underneath it all everyone is still so very fragile.

I have backed off on the internet for quite some time as I had been neglecting myself and my family; I am trying to rebuild my immune system and put some weight back on so that I have the strength to continue marching forward in our quest for truth.

I have been receiving Private Messages with thoughts of love and encouragement and I want to publicly say to the kind hearted people thank you. I will pass the endearing messages along to other members of my family.

Jennifer

[FDInLaw]

Easter week I was able to come home for a visit. I was unable to go up to the memorial that was made for Renee, but from what I understand it has really grown. This morming I heard something about a rose bush and some other plantings. It is really touching that people regulary visit the site even just to water the foliage!!!

Miscommunication made it impossible for me to see Renee's son which saddens me. I did however get to spend some time with my Auntie, Renee's mother, and one of her brothers.

After 10 months without her (including the time we still had hope before she was found), everyone puts up a good front, but I can tell you that underneath it all everyone is still so very fragile.

I have backed off on the internet for quite some time as I had been neglecting myself and my family; I am trying to rebuild my immune system and put some weight back on so that I have the strength to continue marching forward in our quest for truth.

I have been receiving Private Messages with thoughts of love and encouragement and I want to publicly say to the kind hearted people thank you. I will pass the endearing messages along to other members of my family.

Jennifer

Thank you for sharing about your visit and giving an update on how the family is doing. I hope your heath continues to improve. I can total relate with the need to take a break from the boards at times, it's important to reevaluate your priorities. . . how much time you are spending with your family, etc. It's something I struggle to balance too. Please take care! ~ FD

[sanderella]

Your health is paramount at these times, Jenn, and the immune system is indeed further compromised by stress. Get well and stay well!

Thank you so much for the update. I must admit that you have been missed. You have always been the most integral part of our information on Renee and such a great advocate for the truth.

My love to the family and hopefully I will see them soon. I have been dealing with a bit of own grief the past couple of months.... On the road to recovery soon, I hope!

xoxo

[cabojenn]

I have been dealing with a bit of own grief the past couple of months.... On the road to recovery soon, I hope!

xoxo

My other computer crashed and I lost your email...email me if you need to talk, okay?

LOVE YA!!!

[FDInLaw]

Your health is paramount at these times, Jenn, and the immune system is indeed further compromised by stress. Get well and stay well!

Thank you so much for the update. I must admit that you have been missed. You have always been the most integral part of our information on Renee and such a great advocate for the truth.

My love to the family and hopefully I will see them soon. I have been dealing with a bit of own grief the past couple of months.... On the road to recovery soon, I hope!

xoxo Prayers for you as you deal with your grief. . . :rose: :rose: :rose:

[Inyo Native]

Here's an update on Shaleen Duckey's case:
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_635.shtml

DOJ Lab Has No Answers on Duckey

32 year old Shaleen Duckey of Bishop went missing last July 12th. Her body was found in a field off Barlow Lane two weeks later. At that time, agents from the Department of Justice came to the area to help Inyo Sheriff's investigators. More than 9 months later, the DOJ has failed to produce a final report on Duckey's cause of death.

Local Sheriff's investigators were joined by DOJ agents to collect evidence where Duckey's body was found last July.

Inyo Sheriff's Detective Marston Mottweiler has called the DOJ on a very regular basis to try to get final information on the cause of death. He said that this week, agents told him they are trying a new process involving certain chemicals for the right process to get results from evidence gathered.

That evidence, Mottweiler said, was degraded when it was gathered at the scene of where the body was found. Apparently, the Department of Justice lab will try to use a method that will bring results, but it is still unknown when results will surface.

We called the Fresno DOJ lab to find out when our community will get this information. The spokesperson said curtly, "We don't give out information. We don't deal with the public."

We next called higher up in the chain of command and talked to the California Attorney General's office where Ms. Karen Roberts said that she would research the issue and have someone get back to us.

We are now waiting for more information on the Duckey case.

I'm glad that the Sierra Wave is doing some investigating on their own, rather than simply relying on the word of the police!

[dallasvic]

--This whole thing seem weird to me. Who is going to leave $900.00 in there car?I can understand the cell because it was not working, but that much money. Something really does not sound right.

[dallasvic]

i posted this on the wrong thread SORRY

[cabojenn]

i posted this on the wrong thread SORRY

It's okay...Shaleen and Renee were not THAT far from eachother, were missing at the same time, same LE officers investigating, and many quotes from LE said the SAME THINGS. Shaleen gets brought up a lot here too.

[Inyo Native]

Yes, the police were adamant "no foul play was involved" in both cases. This might be true in Renee's case- but there was definitely a problem of negligence, as the police had been asked to check on her multiple times and didn't. Personally, I think there's a possibility of foul play because a lot of things don't make sense. And since the police have shown a tendency to lie in their public statements, it really makes you question their whole investigation of Renee's case and even the official cause of death.

In Shaleen's case, there's no question it was foul play, and it's odd that the police are trying to say otherwise. Her case indicates they have no problem lying or deceiving the local population.

[cabojenn]

http://snownymph.smugmug.com/gallery/2855354/61/153244473#P-5-15

Special note on this...no one in our family has been up there to the site where Renee was found. This memorial was made, added to, and being maintained by the locals. Wish we knew who these locals are. Also, as far as I know, we do not know the people that took these picture's.

Jenn

P.S. You might want tissues before going to the link.

[FDInLaw]

http://snownymph.smugmug.com/gallery/2855354/61/153244473#P-5-15

Special note on this...no one in our family has been up there to the site where Renee was found. This memorial was made, added to, and being maintained by the locals. Wish we knew who these locals are. Also, as far as I know, we do not know the people that took these picture's.

Jenn

P.S. You might want tissues before going to the link.Thanks for sharing the link. What a kind thing the locals are doing. . . bless you all! :rose:

[tandarat]

Ended up in and out of the hospital from March through early April, and now am off work completely :P. I'm also dealing with a couple of herniated cervical disks AND a slipped lumbar disk, and have been sternly told by my neurologlist not to be on the computer more than an hour or two a day. Kind of eats into my reading time :tongue:

I was so hoping that there was some resolution on this by now. How disappointing. The memorial is gorgeous. We are moving back up north if the sale of our place goes through to be closer to family, which means we'll be about 8 hours from Independence instead of 4 hours. I'm going to try to get my husband to agree to go out on a "road trip" before we leave to see it, and get a feel for the town. Not sure how it will go down, since I am not supposed to be out in any kind of sun or heat.

Once my back feels a bit better, and things calm down here (first getting the place ready to sell, and now the prospect of packing 5 years of STUFF...yikes), I do plan on going back to mapping the area using the aerial maps available as well as any GIS/GPS information I can find so those who are unable to visit the area can get a better feel for what the land is like.

I guess the one good thing about all this is that I can try to plan the trip to be as close to the time Renee went missing as possible, so I can see first-hand what the vegetation is like around that time of year. Things change drastically in just a few weeks (heck, even DAYS) in the desert.

Hope things are going well for everyone, and that some real answers start coming soon.

[tandarat]

Has anyone found out how, exactly, they measured the amount of meth in Renee's system during the autopsy?

I've learned a few things regarding how methamphetamine is metabolized and long-term retention of residual amounts of the drug in the body.

I've had a theory for awhile, but couldn't sleep tonight and did a little research which is beginning to confirm my suspicions.

Methamphetamine can be stored long term by the body in fat cells, and is released during heavy exercise or during ketosis, which can be brought on by several things, including diabetes, a high protein diet, starvation, and, which I confirmed tonight, dehydration.

One thing that kept bothering me was the fact that family members, at least here, seemed to be pretty adamant that Renee had beaten her meth addiction, and was excited about starting a new life. She was stressed about her divorce, but why would she travel all the way to Inyo County to get meth? It's readily available in southern CA...there would be no need to travel so far. I really don't think she went out there to get high.

A little light bulb went off after hearing how some medications can be stored long term in the liver. I also knew that LSD is stored indefinitely in fat cells, and so decided to see whether the body stored methamphetamine, how and where it was stored, and how it could be released into the system. BINGO....it is fat soluable, and therefore is often stored within fat cells for long periods after someone stops using the drug. It is not uncommon for someone who has been off meth for a long time to get high after exercise or during a low protein diet.

I also thought I remembered that dehydration can cause ketosis and/or acidosis, which I confirmed tonight.

Not that this necessarily means anything, but it could explain why she had that much meth in her system. I also have to wonder that, if she was a long term user, that as her body decomposed, it released meth into her body/remaining organs, even if she was not high at the time of death. I don't know if that is possible, and would need to ask someone more knowledgeable in this type of thing.

All purely conjecture, but something to chew on.

[cabojenn]

What really bothers me is that during LE's last public statement they told the media that they had found "satchels" of meth near her body. If that was true which I can't help but believe it is NOT, then why the BLANK didn't they tell the family that in the first place?!?! Or how about BEFORE the press conference? IMO, they (LE) wanted to make Renee look bad. They wanted all of us and all of you to let this go and stop pointing fingers at them for not doing their job. They needed a scape goat. Since they couldn't just out right put the blame on Renee, they diverted blame on dispatch. But even if dispatch made the fatal error, LE's lack of sincerity after realizing there was a woman out there spoke volumns.

If you are in the area, anyone reading this, go to the memorial and you will see how many of the locals mourn for a woman they have never met. They know the truth.

Renee was clean up till the time she drove up to Northern California. She didn't go up there for drugs. It's what happened on her way back to Southern California that is the mystery.

[tandarat]

Drugs or no drugs, the fact that the did not respond immediately is just plain wrong. Even if it was due to dispatcher error, the department, which includes dispatch, is responsible.

Look....if anyone knows "real" law enforcement officers, "real" fire personnel and paramedics, they CARE about PEOPLE, regardless of their mistakes, whether or not they are addicted to illegal drugs, etc. They are there to HELP people. Sure, they get frustrated, especially with people they come in contact with over and over again who will not, or cannot, get the help they need, but the fact is they still CARE about what happens to these people. That's why they are called "civil servants"...their job is to care and protect EVERYONE, especially those who cannot care for themselves, regardless of the reason.

What stands out so clearly in this case is that LE obviously did NOT care, even before they had any clue who Renee was or her past. They did not care about her, about her family, and, it seems, about anyone else in the county they don't deem "important". That's sad.

I also think what irks them the most is that this case is really bringing to light the attitude of the department, and it putting them in a really bad light. I wish I had a week or two to spend down there and just go through all the old newpapers for the past decade or so and hunt down all the other people who "disappeared" or died in the county, and find loved ones to get THEIR take on how LE handled those cases. I'd be interested in their insight and feelings about the matter.

My brother died suddenly 7 years ago up in the town I grew up in in northern CA. He was alone at the time, and was not carrying identification on him at the time, so the police had to find his vehicle, which had an old address on the registration and his license (he had recently moved), find where he lived, and then find my mom's contact information. A lot of work for them. It was from natural causes, but I have to say that the police, fire department, paramedics, even the medical examiner were kind, concerned, supportive, and helpful the whole time. He had only had traffic citations, but there were a LOT of those (he drove like a jerk, I admit, and the cops were always looking for him...), but police treated him as any other human being, because that is what he was. If only ICSO could have been the same way with Renee's family.

Maybe they were (are?) running scared for fear of a civil suit. They should know from dealing with criminals who run that by doing that they only make things worse for themselves. Instead of coming forward immediately and admitting fault, and showing remorse, they continued to evade family and hide/misrepresent information to the point that it has become OBVIOUS. At this point, even if her death WAS accidental, and WAS caused by meth use that night, people aren't going to quite believe it. Instead of Renee just fading away and her story disappearing, it has taken a life of its own.

[FDInLaw]

Drugs or no drugs, the fact that the did not respond immediately is just plain wrong. Even if it was due to dispatcher error, the department, which includes dispatch, is responsible.

Look....if anyone knows "real" law enforcement officers, "real" fire personnel and paramedics, they CARE about PEOPLE, regardless of their mistakes, whether or not they are addicted to illegal drugs, etc. They are there to HELP people. Sure, they get frustrated, especially with people they come in contact with over and over again who will not, or cannot, get the help they need, but the fact is they still CARE about what happens to these people. That's why they are called "civil servants"...their job is to care and protect EVERYONE, especially those who cannot care for themselves, regardless of the reason.

What stands out so clearly in this case is that LE obviously did NOT care, even before they had any clue who Renee was or her past. They did not care about her, about her family, and, it seems, about anyone else in the county they don't deem "important". That's sad.

I also think what irks them the most is that this case is really bringing to light the attitude of the department, and it putting them in a really bad light. I wish I had a week or two to spend down there and just go through all the old newpapers for the past decade or so and hunt down all the other people who "disappeared" or died in the county, and find loved ones to get THEIR take on how LE handled those cases. I'd be interested in their insight and feelings about the matter.

My brother died suddenly 7 years ago up in the town I grew up in in northern CA. He was alone at the time, and was not carrying identification on him at the time, so the police had to find his vehicle, which had an old address on the registration and his license (he had recently moved), find where he lived, and then find my mom's contact information. A lot of work for them. It was from natural causes, but I have to say that the police, fire department, paramedics, even the medical examiner were kind, concerned, supportive, and helpful the whole time. He had only had traffic citations, but there were a LOT of those (he drove like a jerk, I admit, and the cops were always looking for him...), but police treated him as any other human being, because that is what he was. If only ICSO could have been the same way with Renee's family.

Maybe they were (are?) running scared for fear of a civil suit. They should know from dealing with criminals who run that by doing that they only make things worse for themselves. Instead of coming forward immediately and admitting fault, and showing remorse, they continued to evade family and hide/misrepresent information to the point that it has become OBVIOUS. At this point, even if her death WAS accidental, and WAS caused by meth use that night, people aren't going to quite believe it. Instead of Renee just fading away and her story disappearing, it has taken a life of its own.
Excellent post! It's great to have you on the board! ~ FD

[tandarat]

I'm wondering if it would be possible (I certainly think it is appropriate) if some kind of permanent memorial/park/"oasis" could be built there in her memory. Maybe something with a memorial, a place to rest (in the shade), get some water, maybe a way to call out for help if someone is in distress. It already has taken a life of its own, and from the pictures has become almost a tiny garden or park.

I'm wondering if enough money was raised, the owner of the property, whether it is public or private, would be willing to give permission, and the county/state would give permits, to build something permanent. If someone tried to say that it was not historical as an excuse not to allow this, I think we can all agree that Renee has become a permanent part of the history of the area.

Has anyone else considered this?

[cabojenn]

I'm wondering if it would be possible (I certainly think it is appropriate) if some kind of permanent memorial/park/"oasis" could be built there in her memory. Maybe something with a memorial, a place to rest (in the shade), get some water, maybe a way to call out for help if someone is in distress. It already has taken a life of its own, and from the pictures has become almost a tiny garden or park.

I'm wondering if enough money was raised, the owner of the property, whether it is public or private, would be willing to give permission, and the county/state would give permits, to build something permanent. If someone tried to say that it was not historical as an excuse not to allow this, I think we can all agree that Renee has become a permanent part of the history of the area.

Has anyone else considered this?

I think it is government owned...

[cabojenn]

http://www.inyoregister.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=901&Itemid=27


“there was no evidence of trauma or violence upon the body, however the death was deemed suspicious and handled accordingly,”

“the actual cause of death was not determined, however the examination was able to rule out the possibility of death as a result of any violence, injury, trauma or disease,”

tox reports “could take up to six weeks.”

Also, I don't believe thet have determained a cause of death for Shaleen Duckey yet. They found her body before Renee, and yet they STILL don't know? :flamemad:

[FDInLaw]

http://www.inyoregister.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=901&Itemid=27


“there was no evidence of trauma or violence upon the body, however the death was deemed suspicious and handled accordingly,”

“the actual cause of death was not determined, however the examination was able to rule out the possibility of death as a result of any violence, injury, trauma or disease,”

tox reports “could take up to six weeks.”

Also, I don't believe thet have determained a cause of death for Shaleen Duckey yet. They found her body before Renee, and yet they STILL don't know? :flamemad:
Thanks for the update, Jenn!

The number of these cases for this small area is unreal. How many mysterious deaths are there going to be before another law-enforcement agency steps in and does something?

[LetsBeConcerned]

http://www.inyoregister.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=901&Itemid=27


“there was no evidence of trauma or violence upon the body, however the death was deemed suspicious and handled accordingly,”

“the actual cause of death was not determined, however the examination was able to rule out the possibility of death as a result of any violence, injury, trauma or disease,”

tox reports “could take up to six weeks.”

Also, I don't believe thet have determained a cause of death for Shaleen Duckey yet. They found her body before Renee, and yet they STILL don't know? :flamemad:
I wonder what makes this one suspicious~?? Is it the no signs of “any violence, injury, trauma”~?
OR was she fully clothed~??? :punch:



However it goes, my prayers go out to the family. She left this world way too young~!!!


Deborah Jeanette Dorame 39:rose: :rose:

Shaleen Renee Duckey 32 :rose: :rose:

Reneee Michelle Fox 25 :rose: :rose:

[cabojenn]

“We get no protection in this town,” said Rossi, “we get no coverage” from the Sheriff’s Department.
"The word floating around the street is we should just close up all our businesses until we get some answers,” Rossi said.
“It’s almost like it’s an everyday occurrence,” Rossi said.
Speaking of the community’s lawbreakers, Rossi said “they rob us, they break our windows and nothing is ever done about it.”

Those quotes are in reference to the frequent robberies in Big Pine, which is in Inyo County. The link to the article is below:

http://www.inyoregister.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=936

From what I gather, LE didn't solve one of the crimes mentioned in the article, but rather the citizens' private security cameras. :punch:

FYI, Hardcastle is the sgt. that was in charge of the search for Renee.
http://www.mmarray.org/cgi-bin/SAR/SARmissionView.pl

(some of the links from the site above do not work)

[cabojenn]

with using an outside organization to help!


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,285416,00.html

[cabojenn]

Will mark the one year anniversary of the last day anyone saw Renee alive.

The pain is still so real and so fresh. I even hung up on one of my Auntie's today. Two members of our family is in the hospital, health issues most likely related to the emotional distress and grief.

There are so many missing women these days...I don't wish this on anyone. IMO, this has truly become an epidemic. Terrible times, hard to deal with. It seems that the love among mankind really has cooled off.

[FDInLaw]

Will mark the one year anniversary of the last day anyone saw Renee alive.

The pain is still so real and so fresh. I even hung up on one of my Auntie's today. Two members of our family is in the hospital, health issues most likely related to the emotional distress and grief.

There are so many missing women these days...I don't wish this on anyone. IMO, this has truly become an epidemic. Terrible times, hard to deal with. It seems that the love among mankind really has cooled off. I'm so sorry, anniversaries are so hard! :( :rose:

Would you like to have an online vigil for Renee? This brings attention to what happen and encourages people to get involved as well as gives an opportunity for folks to express their condolences and hold your family up in prayer. Freshwater can be a huge help here, when we had one for Nona she put it up as the topic of the day (I'm not sure this is what it is called, but you could see it on the top of every thread). Let me know if I can help in any way! (((((HUGS!))))) ~ FD

[cabojenn]

I'm so sorry, anniversaries are so hard! :( :rose:

Would you like to have an online vigil for Renee? This brings attention to what happen and encourages people to get involved as well as gives an opportunity for folks to express their condolences and hold your family up in prayer. Freshwater can be a huge help here, when we had one for Nona she put it up as the topic of the day (I'm not sure this is what it is called, but you could see it on the top of every thread). Let me know if I can help in any way! (((((HUGS!))))) ~ FD

I'm glad I came here before leaving the office for the weekend (no internet at home, need a booster for unsecured wireless connections blah blah blag)

I am up for anything that brings attention to the fact that it is NOT okay that more and more women go missing everyday! It is NOT okay that we as a society allow ourselves to become callous to these tragic events! And like the case of Mary "Beth" Smith, it is NOT okay to look the other way because she "might" have run off on her own, as was rumored about Renee. Renee made a wrong turn, got stuck, and tried to walk out of the canyon.

There are a lot of things the public never heard about Renee; like what her mindset probably was; we KNEW she wouldn't just decide to go away to party no matter what. Especially since I have seen some of the contents that were in her car. LE acted like maybe she blew her money on Meth, but Renee kept track of her money...the records were in the car. You know? And I am up for anything that demands people pay attention; sometimes LE gets it wrong, as we have seen.

Can you tell I went from sad to mad? :rolleyes: I think the case of the missing pregnant mom has made me really sad, and the paster's wife (Beth Smith) has me mad. I'm all over the place :)

But prayer for my family are SO welcome right now. Even though there are families that need it more like the ones mentioned above...and lets not forget Lisa Stebic nor the girl from Target.

It doesn't matter who you are, it is not okay to just vanish.

Okay...phsyco "me" is going home to breathe since I am all over the place. Sorry. :shrug:

Thank you for every post you have ever written in this thread. You always make me feel better.

[FDInLaw]

I'm glad I came here before leaving the office for the weekend (no internet at home, need a booster for unsecured wireless connections blah blah blag)

I am up for anything that brings attention to the fact that it is NOT okay that more and more women go missing everyday! It is NOT okay that we as a society allow ourselves to become callous to these tragic events! And like the case of Mary "Beth" Smith, it is NOT okay to look the other way because she "might" have run off on her own, as was rumored about Renee. Renee made a wrong turn, got stuck, and tried to walk out of the canyon.

There are a lot of things the public never heard about Renee; like what her mindset probably was; we KNEW she wouldn't just decide to go away to party no matter what. Especially since I have seen some of the contents that were in her car. LE acted like maybe she blew her money on Meth, but Renee kept track of her money...the records were in the car. You know? And I am up for anything that demands people pay attention; sometimes LE gets it wrong, as we have seen.

Can you tell I went from sad to mad? :rolleyes: I think the case of the missing pregnant mom has made me really sad, and the paster's wife (Beth Smith) has me mad. I'm all over the place :)

But prayer for my family are SO welcome right now. Even though there are families that need it more like the ones mentioned above...and lets not forget Lisa Stebic nor the girl from Target.

It doesn't matter who you are, it is not okay to just vanish.

Okay...phsyco "me" is going home to breathe since I am all over the place. Sorry. :shrug:

Thank you for every post you have ever written in this thread. You always make me feel better.
I'm gonna take that as a "yes" to the online vigil. Your family will not be grieving alone this weeked.

For Renee and all who love and miss her. . . :rose:

Love & Prayers ~ FD

[gacountry]

I'm so sorry, anniversaries are so hard! :( :rose:

Would you like to have an online vigil for Renee? This brings attention to what happen and encourages people to get involved as well as gives an opportunity for folks to express their condolences and hold your family up in prayer. Freshwater can be a huge help here, when we had one for Nona she put it up as the topic of the day (I'm not sure this is what it is called, but you could see it on the top of every thread). Let me know if I can help in any way! (((((HUGS!))))) ~ FD

Renee and her family have been in my prayers and count me in for an online virgil for Renee.

[Mishell1383]

For Renee and her family. May God show you the strength you need to get by this weekend. One day at a time, be strong! Much love and prarers from me.:rose: :rose: :rose:

[lorettalockhorn]

My condolences and prayers for strength are with Renee's family.

[Results]

My thoughts and prayers are with the family as the one year marks their sadness for the loss of Renee! :rose:

[tlembo]

I was thinking about Renee today and just wanted the family to know that my thoughts and prayers are with them.:rose:

[lorettalockhorn]

My thoughts are with Renee's family and friends today. God rest her soul.

Godspeed in your search for the truth.

[hawgustusgloop]

:rose: for Renee Fox and family

I have followed Renee's story since she was first missing, and my prayers go out to everyone affected by this tragedy.

[One2Snoop]

My thoughts and prayers go out to Renee and her family today...

May it be a source of inner strength http://i16.tinypic.com/4ldlsia.gif
to know that there's a loving God watching
over you and that throughout your time
of need he'll stay close by your side.

[FDInLaw]

Thoughts and prayers for Renee's loved ones. . .

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/181/440729249_86331c5940.jpg?v=0

[Hey Paula]

:rose: In Memory of Renee

:rose: My thoughts and prayers are with Renee's family during this difficult time

I prayed for Renee and her family as I lit candle in my home. The candle will remain lit in Renee's memory.

[LetsBeConcerned]

:rose: :rose: Renee Michelle Fox :rose: :rose: :rose:

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/R-nae5.jpg

We have not forgotten about you, Nae, and doubt we ever will~!! You have touch So many lives~!!!! You will always be missed~!!

[cabojenn]

Thoughts and prayers for Renee's loved ones. . .

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/181/440729249_86331c5940.jpg?v=0

She would have liked those...thank you.

[lizzy64]

R.I.P. Renee
we send our love and prayer to you and your family

[Inyo Native]

Here is an article from the Sierra Wave titled Renee Fox: A Year Later: http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_742.shtml

A year ago this week, Renee Fox of Simi Valley had driven up to the Eastern Sierra - first June Lake then Independence where she drove her car up a curvy, dirt mountain road, was stranded and walked down into the desert where she died from methamphetamine intoxication.

The place where law enforcement finally found her body is now covered with a growing shrine. Local people tell us that many have visited the site where there are now over 25 stuffed animals, many ceramic angel figurines, a living rose plant and many cards.

A woodcrafter in Lone Pine built a stand and box that contains a prayer book where people have signed their names and written personal prayers for Fox and her family. Local individuals are tending to the site which remains clean and well manicured. Solar lights also illuminate the site at night.

As one man noted, "It's truly amazing how many people here in Inyo County care for someone they didn't even know."

...

[FDInLaw]

Here is an article from the Sierra Wave titled Renee Fox: A Year Later: http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_742.shtmlAlso from the article. . .

The Inyo Sheriff's office had conducted an investigation into how they handled the search for Fox. Officials found that a dispatcher had failed to pass on critical information about a woman wandering around the Mazourka Canyon area. So, the search started later than it would have. The young woman's body was not found for another month. Renee Fox was 25. She had a young son.




:rose:

[cabojenn]

Actually, it's more like 2 months. Renee was last seen on June 24th, and she was not found until August 10th. So, roughly 8 weeks.

Thanks for pointing our the article.

[Mishell1383]

wait!? Did I miss something? She died of Meth intoxication? I didn't think that was proven? I thought she died of starvation or dehydration?


anyway R.I.P Renee Fox :rose:

[FDInLaw]

Actually, it's more like 2 months. Renee was last seen on June 24th, and she was not found until August 10th. So, roughly 8 weeks.

Thanks for pointing our the article.
I still can't believe it took 8 weeks for them to find her! :flamemad:

[Inyo Native]

wait!? Did I miss something? She died of Meth intoxication? I didn't think that was proven? I thought she died of starvation or dehydration?



Well, that's what the LE says, and that she died within minutes. However, they also lied numerous times to the public (and many times in the press conference where they announced the cause of death), so it's possible they're covering something up. At the very least, they lied about how quickly she died, and they showed ignorance as to how potent some methods of ingesting methamphetamine are. They also did not discuss the importance of other factors, such as the fact Renee was wandering around a hot desert for hours. Obviously, dehydration and exposure would not have helped and probably aggravated her condition. They kind of gloss over the dispatcher's mistake and the fact they did not search until the next day, and they also have not said anything about any changes they made, any disciplinary actions, etc.

[cabojenn]

wait!? Did I miss something? She died of Meth intoxication? I didn't think that was proven? I thought she died of starvation or dehydration?


anyway R.I.P Renee Fox :rose:

Here's the thing. Meth stays in your system, it gets stored inside your fat cells. Same with many drugs; years later, hypothetically speaking, you could be walking in the desert, dehydrating in the sun, and get a high from the 'toxins' being released from the fat cells. Many drugs (I believe Meth is one of them) becomes concentrated after death especially heat exposure.

But most people who OD on Meth don't die from it nor are their bodies lying in the desert for 8 weeks before being found.

Renee's purse was found several miles further into the canyon than her body was. It does not make sense that Renee would take the drugs out of her purse, dispose of her purse, continue to walk several miles almost to town (compared to where her car was and where her purse was), swallow some meth with no water (they said she ingested it), take off some clothes (half of which has not been found) lie down, cross her arms over her chest, and die. Renee didn't ingest meth, she always smoked it. So dumping her purse and keeping the drugs makes no sense. If she would have been found with a pipe and a lighter, that would make sense.

If you read back far enough, the police said her purse looked as though it had been blown out the back of a truck. They were positive she had been given a ride.

There was no mention of ANY possibility she could have died from an overdose when they found her. In fact, the first we heard about it was from a press conference held by LE to the media, which we learned about on the internet after it happened. Pretty :chicken: **** don't ya think? Suddenly there were "satchels" found near her body.

I don't buy it. NONE of it. Also, I don't remember which article, but there was mention that she had recently cashed some checks and that they (LE)couldn't figure out where the money went. Well, if they had inventoried her car and actually LOOKED at what was inside, Renee had kept track of her expenses, as she always had. They would even had known where she had been, who she called, what she talked about, she wrote down everything. But they didn't. She kept receipts too. All of which were inside her car.

If Renee had truly died from such a "lethal" amount of Meth, she WOULD NOT have crossed her arms like that, and then die in that position. She would have vomited, and most likely been found in a fetal position. Think about that.

LE has not told the truth, and the media reports a lot of that information wrong. For some reason, they always said she was missing a month when in fact, it was 2 months, as an example.

Renee dying of dehydration and low glucose is more plausable. Last year, I was out fishing. We'd only been out for about an hour or so but it was hot that day. First I didn't feel well. Figured I was sea sick. But suddenly my hands went numb along with my face. Then my arms. My hands became disfigured and contorted. Not of my own doing, my arms ended up near my chest, they did it themselves. And then I was paralized. I was only able to breath out of my NOSE, because even my jaw had locked. Had I not been able to tell my captain I needed a doctor before my jaw locked, they would have thought I was sleeping, when in fact I could have died that morning.

Renee was alone. So, based on my experience, I think it makes more sense that she died from dehydration. The meth had been stored in her fat cells. Someone knew she was there (postcards). Search and recovery was restricted to searching the highway because LE said she was not in the canyon. I won't be graphic, but there wasn't much left for them to test...so I don't think they know for sure.

Also, the week she went missing, Renee was CLEAN and HAD been...
No meth. C-L-E-A-N.

[Mishell1383]

Here's the thing. Meth stays in your system, it gets stored inside your fat cells. Same with many drugs; years later, hypothetically speaking, you could be walking in the desert, dehydrating in the sun, and get a high from the 'toxins' being released from the fat cells. Many drugs (I believe Meth is one of them) becomes concentrated after death especially heat exposure.

But most people who OD on Meth don't die from it nor are their bodies lying in the desert for 8 weeks before being found.

Renee's purse was found several miles further into the canyon than her body was. It does not make sense that Renee would take the drugs out of her purse, dispose of her purse, continue to walk several miles almost to town (compared to where her car was and where her purse was), swallow some meth with no water (they said she ingested it), take off some clothes (half of which has not been found) lie down, cross her arms over her chest, and die. Renee didn't ingest meth, she always smoked it. So dumping her purse and keeping the drugs makes no sense. If she would have been found with a pipe and a lighter, that would make sense.

If you read back far enough, the police said her purse looked as though it had been blown out the back of a truck. They were positive she had been given a ride.

There was no mention of ANY possibility she could have died from an overdose when they found her. In fact, the first we heard about it was from a press conference held by LE to the media, which we learned about on the internet after it happened. Pretty :chicken: **** don't ya think? Suddenly there were "satchels" found near her body.

I don't buy it. NONE of it. Also, I don't remember which article, but there was mention that she had recently cashed some checks and that they (LE)couldn't figure out where the money went. Well, if they had inventoried her car and actually LOOKED at what was inside, Renee had kept track of her expenses, as she always had. They would even had known where she had been, who she called, what she talked about, she wrote down everything. But they didn't. She kept receipts too. All of which were inside her car.

If Renee had truly died from such a "lethal" amount of Meth, she WOULD NOT have crossed her arms like that, and then die in that position. She would have vomited, and most likely been found in a fetal position. Think about that.

LE has not told the truth, and the media reports a lot of that information wrong. For some reason, they always said she was missing a month when in fact, it was 2 months, as an example.

Renee dying of dehydration and low glucose is more plausable. Last year, I was out fishing. We'd only been out for about an hour or so but it was hot that day. First I didn't feel well. Figured I was sea sick. But suddenly my hands went numb along with my face. Then my arms. My hands became disfigured and contorted. Not of my own doing, my arms ended up near my chest, they did it themselves. And then I was paralized. I was only able to breath out of my NOSE, because even my jaw had locked. Had I not been able to tell my captain I needed a doctor before my jaw locked, they would have thought I was sleeping, when in fact I could have died that morning.

Renee was alone. So, based on my experience, I think it makes more sense that she died from dehydration. The meth had been stored in her fat cells. Someone knew she was there (postcards). Search and recovery was restricted to searching the highway because LE said she was not in the canyon. I won't be graphic, but there wasn't much left for them to test...so I don't think they know for sure.

Also, the week she went missing, Renee was CLEAN and HAD been...
No meth. C-L-E-A-N.

I agree, something smells fishy here. Thank you for your response. I hope you and your family are able to overcome this in some way. I know it won't be easy, but my thoughts and prayers are with you.

As a recovering addict, I know the mind set. Except not with Meth, but Cocaine :(. Anyway my point, (which may be totally wrong)
If Renee had been clean that week she left, I feel as though she was trying to start her life over, take a trip, clear her mind, and begin the process of becoming sober. Which is what I did AND it worked for me, 2 1/2 years later. It doesn't make sense that first she would have $900 in cash, wouldn't that have been spent on drugs? OR the full $900 would not have been there, a part of it atleast would have been gone. #2 she would NOT have died in the arms crossed position, you are absolutely right, when you stated she would be in the fetal position. #3 her purse would not be away from her. This makes me think as though her body was moved. AND #4 (which I am glad you picked up on as well) When you have a preferred method of using i.e. smoking, snorting, ingesting, you DO NOT switch it up. You either inject it or you don't, you smoke it or you don't. Injest it or you don't. There would have most certainly have been a pipe near her, if she chose to go to the desert and do drugs. Also would she have went alone if that was her reasoning for going in the first place? i doubt it. WHICH makes all the more point that this just doesn't fit into this scenario. And there were quite a few sighting reports of Renee by people, I really feel like the LE screwed up big time, and you are right in saying they are trying to focus the blame away from the dispatcher. And I'm sad for Renee because from all angles it seemed like she just wanted a chance to change, get away, and clear her mind, and unfortunatly she didn't get to come back, the way she wanted too. I also was thinking in the high heat, I'm almost positive that it would have had an adverse effect on her, and the meth in her system could have started reacting. I know after years of Acid you definitley suffer from flash backs that will happen probably for the rest of your life, and when you least expect it.
I dunno, but there are alot of questions here, and A LOT of this just doesnt make sense to me. :confused:

[tandarat]

http://www.inyoregister.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=901&Itemid=27


“the actual cause of death was not determined, however the examination was able to rule out the possibility of death as a result of any violence, injury, trauma or disease,”



Errr....so....what? She just decided to lay down and die one day because it seemed like a neat thing to do?

Sheesh.

[Mishell1383]

Errr....so....what? She just decided to lay down and die one day because it seemed like a neat thing to do?

Sheesh.
If I didn't think they were covering up for the rest of the LE, I would bet my money on dehydration, however, some of the facts just don't add up to me.

[tandarat]

Mishell...

No...I was quoting an article on a NEW body found in Inyo. I just found it a bit funny (not funny ha-ha...well, ok, a little bit, if you like dark humor) that they list pretty much just about everything that CAN kill you (except maybe for an overdose...sound familiar?)

For Renee, I just don't know what to think. The only thing I'm certain of is that LE screwed up and that they continue to prove their extreme LACK of social skills when dealing with victims' families.

I still would like to know what method they used to determine how much meth was in her system. It IS fat soluble, and will continue to build up in the fat cells. Dehydration could definitely cause the body to release meth into the blood stream, since the body will automatically start to break down adipose tissue. Blood deteriorates very quickly, and if she truly was dead all that time, her organ tissue and much of her muscle tissues would also decompose. Fat would either decompose or chemically change, which could cause even more of the drug to be released into the remaining tissue, as well as the ground. I find it difficult to imagine any kind of accurate measurement could be made. I'm not a scientist though...I could be wrong. I'd really appreciate anyone with knowledge in forensics and this type of testing to come on the forum and explain how this could happen.

As an aside, I do see how some of the things COULD happen, but all seem remote, and to have EVERYTHING happen exactly how authorities claim it must have happened seems nearly impossible. I can see her losing her purse on the way down, probably the last time she came down, due to exhaution, dehydration, and exposure. She certainly was exhausted, and could easily have been delirous at the time. It may have fallen off her shoulder, if left open things could have just slipped out as she walked, making it look like it had been scattered by wind as she road in the back of a truck. If she found a bit of meth left over, or even purchased some for a "last fling" (it seems unlikely, but no one knows EXACTLY what she was thinking those last days), and was under the amount of stress she must have felt lost in the desert, alone, she may have ingested it. Perhaps the purse was her desperately looking for a pipe, and, finding none, she took the meth orally. Again, unlikely, but possible, I suppose. Considering she probably knew her tolerance level while smoking, which is lower than ingesting, which takes longer and is less "efficient", I'd guess she took much less than her body could normally handle. However, if you combine the fact that she probably had some meth released into her system from exposure to the desert climate, AND dehydration caused a higher concentration of the drug in her system, perhaps the little bit ingested was enough to push her over her limit. "Died in minutes", however, is ludicrous when ingesting the drug. It would take a minimum of 20 minutes for enough to get in her system to even start feeling an effect...so you figure around 30 minutes for a small ingested amount to push the blood concentration to lethal levels.

And maybe she did finally stop at the bush she was found under, to "rest" a bit before continuing on. I've been out in the heat "too long" before, and I can guarantee that it is very, very easy to stop and rest, even close to home, when suffering from heat exhaustion and dehydration. I have a medical condition that makes me extremely susceptible to the sun and heat, and I was out for a "last walk" along the riverbed near our home last weekend. I forgot about the fire a month ago, and found myself in 90 degree heat in what could easily be called a desert wasteland. Just sand and burned bamboo and trees. By the time I got back to the road, I was suffering from dehydration and exhaution...I had about a mile to walk to get back home, and I was sooooo tempted to just stop, sit, and rest along the way, even though I was already having some mild seizures. I knew if I stopped, I'd be dead, even along the busy road. I did think of Renee, and how easy it would have been to stop under that bush, "just for a minute". I kept that in mind the whole way home. I guess I can thank her for making it home :). Back to the subject, though...theoretically, she could have stopped to rest, and ended up having her body seize up in what appeared to be crossing her arms over her chest, but normally her legs would begin to contract, as well. Perhaps something kept them down (no idea, what, but let's play "pretend" for a minute). So, she lay down under the bush, suffering from heat exhaustion, possibly a heat stroke, severe dehydration, and meth running in her veins, whether she recently consumed some or not, and died there. Her heart would be racing like crazy from the drugs, electrolyte imbalance, exertion, and exhaustion. She may have suffered from an arrhythmia, or a seizure. Someone may have found her, and placed her the way she was found. Maybe they were afraid to call in to tell people where her body was, or maybe they got some kind of sick joy out of keeping the secret.

Thing is....all these are possible, but putting them all together, even without all the other circumstances surrounding her death, makes it seem very unlikely. I hate to flat out say her missing for so long was intentional (whether or not her death was), but I'm suspicious. It is all just too strange.

[tandarat]

We're moving to northern CA next week, and had to have the house tented for termites on Monday, plus we had to put our 17-year-old dog to sleep on Monday, find boarding situations for all the other animals, and start PACKING (we weren't sure the sale of the house was going to go through until Saturday). I snuck on just now, and have been typing madly since then.

I wish I could have joined. Just know that I WAS thinking of Renee this weekend, even though I was not sure if this was the one year anniversary or not. Hopefully the family felt some comfort from the support of so many others.

[Mishell1383]

Mishell...

No...I was quoting an article on a NEW body found in Inyo. I just found it a bit funny (not funny ha-ha...well, ok, a little bit, if you like dark humor) that they list pretty much just about everything that CAN kill you (except maybe for an overdose...sound familiar?)

For Renee, I just don't know what to think. The only thing I'm certain of is that LE screwed up and that they continue to prove their extreme LACK of social skills when dealing with victims' families.

I still would like to know what method they used to determine how much meth was in her system. It IS fat soluble, and will continue to build up in the fat cells. Dehydration could definitely cause the body to release meth into the blood stream, since the body will automatically start to break down adipose tissue. Blood deteriorates very quickly, and if she truly was dead all that time, her organ tissue and much of her muscle tissues would also decompose. Fat would either decompose or chemically change, which could cause even more of the drug to be released into the remaining tissue, as well as the ground. I find it difficult to imagine any kind of accurate measurement could be made. I'm not a scientist though...I could be wrong. I'd really appreciate anyone with knowledge in forensics and this type of testing to come on the forum and explain how this could happen.

As an aside, I do see how some of the things COULD happen, but all seem remote, and to have EVERYTHING happen exactly how authorities claim it must have happened seems nearly impossible. I can see her losing her purse on the way down, probably the last time she came down, due to exhaution, dehydration, and exposure. She certainly was exhausted, and could easily have been delirous at the time. It may have fallen off her shoulder, if left open things could have just slipped out as she walked, making it look like it had been scattered by wind as she road in the back of a truck. If she found a bit of meth left over, or even purchased some for a "last fling" (it seems unlikely, but no one knows EXACTLY what she was thinking those last days), and was under the amount of stress she must have felt lost in the desert, alone, she may have ingested it. Perhaps the purse was her desperately looking for a pipe, and, finding none, she took the meth orally. Again, unlikely, but possible, I suppose. Considering she probably knew her tolerance level while smoking, which is lower than ingesting, which takes longer and is less "efficient", I'd guess she took much less than her body could normally handle. However, if you combine the fact that she probably had some meth released into her system from exposure to the desert climate, AND dehydration caused a higher concentration of the drug in her system, perhaps the little bit ingested was enough to push her over her limit. "Died in minutes", however, is ludicrous when ingesting the drug. It would take a minimum of 20 minutes for enough to get in her system to even start feeling an effect...so you figure around 30 minutes for a small ingested amount to push the blood concentration to lethal levels.

And maybe she did finally stop at the bush she was found under, to "rest" a bit before continuing on. I've been out in the heat "too long" before, and I can guarantee that it is very, very easy to stop and rest, even close to home, when suffering from heat exhaustion and dehydration. I have a medical condition that makes me extremely susceptible to the sun and heat, and I was out for a "last walk" along the riverbed near our home last weekend. I forgot about the fire a month ago, and found myself in 90 degree heat in what could easily be called a desert wasteland. Just sand and burned bamboo and trees. By the time I got back to the road, I was suffering from dehydration and exhaution...I had about a mile to walk to get back home, and I was sooooo tempted to just stop, sit, and rest along the way, even though I was already having some mild seizures. I knew if I stopped, I'd be dead, even along the busy road. I did think of Renee, and how easy it would have been to stop under that bush, "just for a minute". I kept that in mind the whole way home. I guess I can thank her for making it home :). Back to the subject, though...theoretically, she could have stopped to rest, and ended up having her body seize up in what appeared to be crossing her arms over her chest, but normally her legs would begin to contract, as well. Perhaps something kept them down (no idea, what, but let's play "pretend" for a minute). So, she lay down under the bush, suffering from heat exhaustion, possibly a heat stroke, severe dehydration, and meth running in her veins, whether she recently consumed some or not, and died there. Her heart would be racing like crazy from the drugs, electrolyte imbalance, exertion, and exhaustion. She may have suffered from an arrhythmia, or a seizure. Someone may have found her, and placed her the way she was found. Maybe they were afraid to call in to tell people where her body was, or maybe they got some kind of sick joy out of keeping the secret.

Thing is....all these are possible, but putting them all together, even without all the other circumstances surrounding her death, makes it seem very unlikely. I hate to flat out say her missing for so long was intentional (whether or not her death was), but I'm suspicious. It is all just too strange.
You have some GREAT points here Michelle, and what a lovely name you possess! ;)
I'm glad you didn't sit and rest for a minute and that you kept walking and are now ok!
One of the main questions I have is, didn't volunteers search that area and not find anything? And than all of a sudden she appears there? With her arms crossed supposedly been there the whole time? Please correct me if I'm wrong! :shrug:

[cabojenn]

You have some GREAT points here Michelle, and what a lovely name you possess! ;)
I'm glad you didn't sit and rest for a minute and that you kept walking and are now ok!
One of the main questions I have is, didn't volunteers search that area and not find anything? And than all of a sudden she appears there? With her arms crossed supposedly been there the whole time? Please correct me if I'm wrong! :shrug:

LE and their search and rescue searched that area. When Equusearch came along with our family and friends they were NOT permitted to search there. They were even restricted as to where they could fly the drone planes. They (LE) gave two excuses. 1) She was NOT in the canyon she made it to the highway and 2) it was too dangerous. Instead, they were allowed to search along the very busy highway with almost NO shoulder.

And I find it interesting that they don't seem to have enough manpower to do their jobs correctly, nor even greet any family that went up there for the search including Renee's MOTHER, yet they had the time to circle the hotel/motel they were staying in over and over and over again. :punch:

Mishell, did you ever see the postcards? The 1st one had clippings pasted on it probably from a sales ad of things like a personal size bag of Lays chips, a specific brand of beer etc. All of those items were actually within a 1/4 to a 1/2 mile (I wasn't there) of where her body was eventually found. Oh, except Bat Boy. No one ever saw him. Maybe he was too busy circling to hotel.....:eek: (See Tandarat, I too have dark humor today and please, take care of yourself, no more close calls okay?).

[Northwest Girl]

One of the LE involved in Nae's case looks very much like BatBoy!! IMO

Kim

[cabojenn]

One of the LE involved in Nae's case looks very much like BatBoy!! IMO

Kim

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[quiscalus]

My thoughts and prayers go out for Renee Fox, and for her loved ones.:rose:

[tandarat]

One of the LE involved in Nae's case looks very much like BatBoy!! IMO

Kim

Oh man, that's cruel, no matter who it is :tongue: . You wouldn't, er....have a picture of the poor slob, would you? That's something I'd love to see.

There are also some geographical features in the area that, when seen from the air, resemble batboy, though it isn't remarkable...more like when you look at clouds and see shapes of animals and such.

The postcards are definitely from one sick puppy, whether or not he/she was involved. They were postmarked at the same post office, and so I'm guessing they are from the same individual. From the way they were sent and the "style" of the postcard, I also believe the sender was male, but you can never rule out anything.

Another interesting coincidence....one of them (first or second, I don't remember) was postmarked the day after Shaleen Duckey's body was found, but before it was identified, if I remember right. The discovery of the body was made public about 8pm, I think...well after the post office closed. I have to wonder if the person who sent the card perhaps thought the body was Renee's, and had timed it to hopefully appear right after her body was identified? If so, does that point to hoax, or did they know she was dead...maybe in the area Shaleen was found (or they thought so, anyway)? Could the body have been moved after Shaleen was found?

In any case, I found it interesting.

[Mishell1383]

Oh man, that's cruel, no matter who it is :tongue: . You wouldn't, er....have a picture of the poor slob, would you? That's something I'd love to see.

There are also some geographical features in the area that, when seen from the air, resemble batboy, though it isn't remarkable...more like when you look at clouds and see shapes of animals and such.

The postcards are definitely from one sick puppy, whether or not he/she was involved. They were postmarked at the same post office, and so I'm guessing they are from the same individual. From the way they were sent and the "style" of the postcard, I also believe the sender was male, but you can never rule out anything.

Another interesting coincidence....one of them (first or second, I don't remember) was postmarked the day after Shaleen Duckey's body was found, but before it was identified, if I remember right. The discovery of the body was made public about 8pm, I think...well after the post office closed. I have to wonder if the person who sent the card perhaps thought the body was Renee's, and had timed it to hopefully appear right after her body was identified? If so, does that point to hoax, or did they know she was dead...maybe in the area Shaleen was found (or they thought so, anyway)? Could the body have been moved after Shaleen was found?

In any case, I found it interesting.
Is there a link where I can see the postcards? I haven't seen them

[cabojenn]

Is there a link where I can see the postcards? I haven't seen them

http://crimeblog.us/?p=33

On the page there is a link to the 1st postcard which is very grainy. The 2nd postcard was never released to the media. 2nd postcard was just a pretty picture with this written on the back "Bisop is a wonderful small town" or something similar. Also sent to same place but the zip code was off by a number.

And yes, the timing was interesting.

[Inyo Native]

One of the LE involved in Nae's case looks very much like BatBoy!! IMO

Kim

I think I know which one you're talking about! That is funny (he is not a nice person, so I don't feel guilty)...

[Mishell1383]

http://crimeblog.us/?p=33

On the page there is a link to the 1st postcard which is very grainy. The 2nd postcard was never released to the media. 2nd postcard was just a pretty picture with this written on the back "Bisop is a wonderful small town" or something similar. Also sent to same place but the zip code was off by a number.

And yes, the timing was interesting.
whoa that kid is scary! I was wondering who batboy was. omg Im gonna have nightmares

[Results]

Today marks the one year anniversary for missing Roxanne if you could please go post your support on the vigil thread for Roxanne would sure appreciate it. Roxy's Mom reads the forum and post with updates so lets show her our CL community compassion! Sorry to disrupt your thread and everyone have a wonderful weekend. Link below to the vigil thread:

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D282703%26highlight%3DRoxy

[Results]

Today marks the one year anniversary for missing Roxanne if you could please go post your support on the vigil thread for Roxanne would sure appreciate it. Roxy's Mom reads the forum and post with updates so lets show her our CL community compassion! Sorry to disrupt your thread and everyone have a wonderful weekend. Link below to the vigil thread:

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D282703%26highlight%3DRoxy

Sorry that link is not working please try this one.

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/forumdisplay.php?f=376

[odette]

Sorry that link is not working please try this one.

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/forumdisplay.php?f=376

This link will take you to the main page of Roxanne's Forum .. Scroll down a little for the Vigil link .. :)

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/forumdisplay.php?f=376

[cabojenn]

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?p=8902280&posted=1#post8902280

[LetsBeConcerned]

With anniversary of the day that Renee was found I thought I would post this video. The first time I had heard this song, as soooo many of us here will remember, what we were doing and where we were…. We were all looking at Texas EquuSearch’s Website. This song played in the background. So many had asked, “What’s that song and who sings it~??”

The name of the song is, “If Everyone Cared” By Nickelback off their album “All the Right Reasons”

It is still just as moving today as it was last year~!! The video is even more inspiring ~!!!

Asking a simple question…

What would happen
If
EVERYONE
CARED~???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IUSZyjiYuY

:rolleyes:

[cabojenn]

With anniversary of the day that Renee was found I thought I would post this video. The first time I had heard this song, as soooo many of us here will remember, what we were doing and where we were…. We were all looking at Texas EquuSearch’s Website. This song played in the background. So many had asked, “What’s that song and who sings it~??”

The name of the song is, “If Everyone Cared” By Nickelback off their album “All the Right Reasons”

It is still just as moving today as it was last year~!! The video is even more inspiring ~!!!

Asking a simple question…

What would happen
If
EVERYONE
CARED~???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IUSZyjiYuY

:rolleyes:

Yes, Friday will be a difficult day for many. That song says so much.

[LetsBeConcerned]

Yes, Friday will be a difficult day for many. That song says so much.

Yes, it does, Jenn… to quote the song…

If everyone loved and nobody lied
If everyone shared and swallowed their pride
Then we'd see the day when nobody died
When nobody died...



Now if we could only get the LE to swallow their pride and share the truth with us as to what really happened to Renee.

:mad:

[Mishell1383]

For Renee :rose: Whom is still loved and missed so very much.

[dallasvic]

She is in a better place than us now.:rose: For~Renee:rose: An Family:rose:

[LetsBeConcerned]

I, like so many others, have not been back to Mazourka Canyon since Renee was found. I have requested pictures of the area as the memorial keep growing~!!!

Here are some pictures taken a few months ago.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/aDSCF2875-1.jpg



Here is one of the inside of the podium


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/aDSCF3200.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

A Close-Up…

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/reneeplacque.jpg

There are so many mementoes and thoughtful messages being left in the area. As well as A LOT OF WORK being put into it~!!! This is just one example of the very many things that are out there~!!!

:) :) :)

Thank You to All~!!

:seeya: :seeya: :seeya:

[Mishell1383]

WOW THAT IS ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL! AND JUST SIMPLY AMAZING! THANKS FOR SHOWING US THE PICTURES LETS!

FOR RENEE :rose:

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is an article that was written when Renee first went missing~!!

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/R-Article-1.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

Article Continued...


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/R-Article-1-page2.jpg

[curiousfriend]

Funny how when they had that news report the LE stated that they didn't get the message about renee until the following day, but in this article they state that they received the call on sat. and began searching on sunday - Contradicting themselves again!:no: :chicken:

[LetsBeConcerned]

Funny how when they had that news report the LE stated that they didn't get the message about renee until the following day, but in this article they state that they received the call on sat. and began searching on sunday - Contradicting themselves again!:no: :chicken:


Dear Curiousfriend,

Actually, they claimed to be rushing since that Saturday… Then later after investigating the incident, then they claimed they NEVER got the information from the dispatcher~!!!

They didn’t say that the search started on Sunday, just called the SAR team… The LE said that “they (the LE)” “found items belonging to Fox” on Sunday~!!!

When in ALL reality, other vacationers had found it in the middle of the road and turned it over to the Sheriff’s. That is when the Sheriffs went to see where the items were found and pretended that they were looking for Renee all along~!!!

To quote the article of June 27, 2006...... On Sunday, sheriff’s deputies still looking for Fox, located “property belonging to Fox” approximately two miles west of the abandoned vehicle, however no traces of Fox herself were found.

July 5, 2006
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0706/0501_renee_fox3.html
It wasn't until the next day, when they stumbled across her pocketbook with all the cash still inside it — that the men in the four-wheeler became somewhat concerned, and when they came across another traveler, they asked him to carry it back to town and notify police. The authorities already were aware of the fact that Fox was missing somewhere in the desert, though they were treating it as a routine matter, Somes said.
(Though technically, the LE could have not known who she was until they received her purse)

http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0706/0501_renee_fox5.html
Though authorities have not identified the men in the four-wheeler, Somes said he is hoping to locate them and talk to them. "We'd love to talk to the guys in the four-wheeler, but the police didn't get their numbers, and it was second-hand news to them," Somes said. "We'd love to get a hold of them or somebody who knew them or somebody in that areajust something to lead us somewhere."


(TWO Months Later) Aug. 22
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_153.shtml

Detective Paul Bedell said that "we're looking into the whole case - how the report came in and when a determination was made to search. There is a lot of information," he said, "and that takes time."

(The Lead Det. Is actually going to say that he didn’t know that no one actually went out to search on Sat…. I guess that would be typical for a Det. that did not get the names of the people that turned in the purse~??? )


(FIVE Months Later ) Dec. 1
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_329.shtml


“Eropkin said that two different groups of tourists had seen Fox up in Mazourka Canyon. Plus, a Bishop man driving north through Independence saw her walking on the side of the highway. A Shell Mart clerk may also have seen Fox that Saturday.


” Under Sheriff Eropkin said that Fox died on that Saturday, June 24th at an unknown hour. He said pathologists believe Fox died "within minutes of taking the methamphetamine." She apparently partially disrobed, laid down on the desert under a bush, crossed her arms over her chest, and died.



To recap the sheriff’s version of events… Renee walked 10 miles to town, dyed her hair, had surgery to change her appearance, etc… walked to town and into the store and got a bag of ice. Renee then tried to walk back to Los Angeles, past Mazourka, and changed her hair color again. Then after walking 5 miles, towards LA, decided to turn back around and walked to Mazourka going back those 5 miles and then another 5 miles up the road where she laid down and died. Losing her clothes along the way during this 20 mile round trip from where she was found and died within minutes~!!!

The LE still hasn't explained how she was found nude, …Yet, Only partially disrobed~???
:shrug:

The Sheriff's were told in the beginning that those sightings where not Renee.Look back to July 7, 2006
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0706/0701_renee_fox2.html
Not everyone is convinced that Fox did make it out of the desert. Her brother, Reese Somes, told Crime Library this morning that he spoke with at least one of the witnesses who claims to have seen Fox on the highway and he believes that the young woman spotted there was not his sister. He said the woman the witness saw had darker hair than his blonde sister and lacked some of her other physical attributes. "No one knows the description better than her family," Somes said, adding that he fears that she remains in the desert, perhaps incapacitated or worse, or even that she might have been abducted while wandering alone in the desert.

:flamemad: :flamemad: :flamemad:

[Inyo Native]

Ah, the "truth" according to Inyo County's LE. The only thing you can count on them to do is lie to save their own skins. Even under oath.

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is an article from July 1 & 2, 2006

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/Rjuly1.jpg


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/Rjuly1pg2.jpg

[Mishell1383]

shes so beautiful. :(

[cabojenn]

shes so beautiful. :(

Thank you...she looks like ME!! ha ha ha
:lol:

In the article that was last posted, there is a statement made that LE didn't know why she would be up there, unless she made a wrong turn. As it turns out, there USED to be a sign (that has vanished since the time Renee was up there) that could easily confuse a driver into thinking that by going in one direction verses another, it would take you to Los Angeles and Mazourka Canyon, and if you took the other direction it would lead some place else (can't remember where right now). In MY OPINION, it it OBVIOUS she made a wrong turn based on what the sign said.

Also, Renee did NOT go up there to buy drugs. No reason to go that far when it's available everywhere if she wanted it, you know? She was just driving to clear her head, drove too far to a nice place for the night and was heading home to find a new place to live. She was about to start school at CSUN to become a school teacher; something she would have been amazing at! Other than needing a place to live, things were looking up for her after her divorce (which was not final at the time of her death).

If I am not mistaken, which I know many people have been confused by this, the men in the four-wheelers are NOT the same people that gave her the water. LetsBeConcerned may verify...

[Inyo Native]

I find it kind of odd that the search dogs focused on Renee's perfume, I wonder if that had something to do with the poor search.

In one of the last paragraphs, Bedell says that there was no indication she committed suicide, and that if she was there, they would have found her. Interesting... Why has the media glossed over the fact that she was found in an area they supposedly searched- an area they CLAIMED to have searched? After all, if they're that incompetent what's to keep them from performing poor searches in the future (or rather, lying about performing a search)?

[FDInLaw]

I find it kind of odd that the search dogs focused on Renee's perfume, I wonder if that had something to do with the poor search.

In one of the last paragraphs, Bedell says that there was no indication she committed suicide, and that if she was there, they would have found her. Interesting... Why has the media glossed over the fact that she was found in an area they supposedly searched- an area they CLAIMED to have searched? After all, if they're that incompetent what's to keep them from performing poor searches in the future (or rather, lying about performing a search)?

Excellent point!

[LetsBeConcerned]

Thank you...she looks like ME!! ha ha ha
:lol:
MOST DEFINATLY DOES~!!! How many people would pay to have your Hair~!!!! Including Me ~!! :seeya:

In the article that was last posted, there is a statement made that LE didn't know why she would be up there, unless she made a wrong turn. As it turns out, there USED to be a sign (that has vanished since the time Renee was up there) that could easily confuse a driver into thinking that by going in one direction verses another, it would take you to Los Angeles and Mazourka Canyon, and if you took the other direction it would lead some place else (can't remember where right now). In MY OPINION, it it OBVIOUS she made a wrong turn based on what the sign said.

Also, Renee did NOT go up there to buy drugs. No reason to go that far when it's available everywhere if she wanted it, you know?

YOU MEAN THAT YOU WOULD NOT DRIVE 3 HOURS ONLY TO MEET SOMEONE BEHIND A MOUNTAIN~??? With no other information or a specific address of a place that you have never been before~???? It is also my understanding that Nae was not aware that she was that far away from Simi, until she talked to a friend. The terrain that she was lost in is very much like the mountains around Simi.

If I am not mistaken, which I know many people have been confused by this, the men in the four-wheelers are NOT the same people that gave her the water. LetsBeConcerned may verify...


Well, on this one, you ARE MISTAKEN~!!!! There was definitely more than one group that saw Nae and gave her water... they actually should be identified by the color & type of vehicles that they drove ….. AND THE TIME THAT THEY ENCOUNTED Nae and GAVE HER THE WATER….

You Are Right, in that they are different than the family that gave her water~!!

That is why there were “conflicting reports” stated in the first article comes from. Renee was seen at different times and places by different groups of people.

There were some that gave her water and contacted the sheriffs and the family AFTER seeing it on television. Other’s BEFORE~!! The TV reports came out much LATER than first newspaper reports. I think that after putting the different accounts of the different people and the different times that Nae was given water, that it was possible for Renee to survive for a time on the water that she was given. This brought some comfort to the family.

I read somewhere that if you were to go hiking in that type of an area, you should plan on 2 gallons per person, per day and more if possible.

Those that planned on being there had literally brought cases of water with them and had some to spare. That is what struck those that saw Renee out there as being so odd~!!! If they saw Nae walking thru a mall or a neighborhood, you would have thought nothing of it…. But she was out in the middle of a deserted area 10 miles from civilization~!!! No backpack, no food or water~!! Things that you would naturally bring with you~!

There were also more than one group that had reported Renee in the canyon. And therefore more than one report that went ignored.

The Ranger’s Station is located on Mazourka Canyon Road. In the town of Independence. You have to pass it on your way in or out~!!! People had intentionally gone to this station to report the lady that they had seen, to the rangers. Many of the articles report this as “a chance meeting”… this was NO coincidence~!! It is the same as walking into the Sheriff’s Department and actually talking to a Sheriff.

I honestly feel for those people~!!!!!!! Imagine… Seeing someone, and thinking she might be in danger, reporting it to the Authorities, (and laughed at, by the authorities, but they said would take care of it) then days later, seeing her picture and story on the news as a missing person~!!!!


Had the authorities taken their job more seriously, Renee would be alive today~!!!:flamemad:

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is a picture taken the day Nae’s body was recovered. It was taken by some concerned locals. It is an investigator standing there, surveying the scene.

See that MOUNTAIN in the background~!!! It was the OTHER SIDE of that Mountain that the Good Samaritans Had seen Renee and had given her water~!!
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/53496_176852_19392179_1155332199-1.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is a picture taken the same day, from town, just outside the rangers station. The mining structure is on the right. Renee was found just past the mining structure.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/53668_176852_19392349_1155332499-1.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is a closer view driving up Mazourka.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/53657_176852_19392338_1155332478mdf.jpg

Here is a picture taken even futher up Mazourka Road. Those are the LE's vehicles on the road blocking traffic. The Mining structure is on the right of the road. Nae's body was found just past the mining structure on the left side of the Road. Closer to the lead vehicle.
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/53638_176852_19392319_1155332443md4.jpg

[cabojenn]

Here is a picture taken the day Nae’s body was recovered. It was taken by some concerned locals. It is an investigator standing there, surveying the scene.

See that MOUNTAIN in the background~!!! It was the OTHER SIDE of that Mountain that the Good Samaritans Had seen Renee and had given her water~!!
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/53496_176852_19392179_1155332199-1.jpg

If there was an icon to show a person sobbing, I would insert it. To think that my Nae Nae walked ALL THAT WAY ALONE in the desert. To know that so many people gave her water...and then reported it to only go unchecked by authorities, some who actually laughed and joked that they hoped it did not fall under their jurisdiction, and forgotten by another, is truly unimaginable. But yet, it happened. It happened to OUR Nae Nae.

To Serve and Protect...who? Themselves I suppose.



(all above imo...which I consider fact, in this case.)

[cabojenn]

Well, on this one, you ARE MISTAKEN~!!!! I guess I am. I had no idea that she had been given that much water. That changes a few things. Only having a couple of bottles is one thing, but that SEVERAL bottles had been given to her changes what her outcome might have been.There was definitely more than one group that saw Nae and gave her water... they actually should be identified by the color & type of vehicles that they drove ….. AND THE TIME THAT THEY ENCOUNTED Nae and GAVE HER THE WATER….
Well jeez, why would anyone BOTHER to collect that information? Oh, for a better time line etc. I suppose LE would say I watch too much T.V

You Are Right, in that they are different than the family that gave her water~!!

That is why there were “conflicting reports” stated in the first article comes from. Renee was seen at different times and places by different groups of people.

There were some that gave her water and contacted the sheriffs and the family AFTER seeing it on television. Other’s BEFORE~!! The TV reports came out much LATER than first newspaper reports. I think that after putting the different accounts of the different people and the different times that Nae was given water, that it was possible for Renee to survive for a time on the water that she was given. This brought some comfort to the family. Wait, didn't LE say that WE were confused about details? It amazes me how we seem to know more than they do

I read somewhere that if you were to go hiking in that type of an area, you should plan on 2 gallons per person, per day and more if possible.

Those that planned on being there had literally brought cases of water with them and had some to spare. That is what struck those that saw Renee out there as being so odd~!!! If they saw Nae walking thru a mall or a neighborhood, you would have thought nothing of it…. But she was out in the middle of a deserted area 10 miles from civilization~!!! No backpack, no food or water~!! Things that you would naturally bring with you~!

There were also more than one group that had reported Renee in the canyon. And therefore more than one report that went ignored.

The Ranger’s Station is located on Mazourka Canyon Road. In the town of Independence. You have to pass it on your way in or out~!!! People had intentionally gone to this station to report the lady that they had seen, to the rangers. Many of the articles report this as “a chance meeting”… this was NO coincidence~!! It is the same as walking into the Sheriff’s Department and actually talking to a Sheriff.

I honestly feel for those people~!!!!!!! Imagine… Seeing someone, and thinking she might be in danger, reporting it to the Authorities, (and laughed at, by the authorities, but they said would take care of it) then days later, seeing her picture and story on the news as a missing person~!!!!


Had the authorities taken their job more seriously, Renee would be alive today~!!!:flamemad:

That's right. She WOULD be alive today had the authorities actually gone out there to look for her. It is evident that all levels of LE/Ranger failed to do the PROTECT part of their job.

[curiousfriend]

:eek: Wow, I had no clue of all of that information! I must read it a few more times to let it all sink in - I'm in a state of shock right now I don't understand how people whos job is "to serve and protect" could do these things -:confused: I'm dumbfounded, I cant believe the distance she walked-So heartwrenching to think that this is the way a person had to go, not just a person but Nae, she was always the first one to think of another, to help out to do anything for someone else. And yet at her time of need the only ones who could have helped her sat on their asses and ignored concerned peoples notifications of her walking alone with inappropriate clothing and gear. I hope that all involved that did not make finding her top priority have the same thing happen to themselves but worse. This world is so unjust and unfair at times - it honestly sickens me!:( :flamemad:

[curiousfriend]

:rose: :rose: The truth shall prevail, and when it does may God have mercy on the sickos souls! :rose: :rose:

An eye for an eye would not even be enough justice for this situation!!

[Inyo Native]

This quote helps me with my family's current "war on terror" in Inyo County:

There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest. -Elie Wiesel

[Northwest Girl]

Great Quote Inyo! Thanks for the reminder. On top of what has happened to our family, I am just dumbfounded by the behavior of LE towards your family and friends!!! How are they able to continue getting away with the harassment?

[Inyo Native]

Normally they're not quite as blatant- in this case, even the public defenders realize what is going on. And a journalist friend of mine- who normally defends them as well (since she works with police and district attorney's herself- though not in California) admits the police in Inyo seem to be getting cocky. Ultimately this is bad for the department, because it undermines their credibility and makes it easier for us to prove, should it come to litigation.

I heard that the reason they have gotten so bad lately is because the current Bishop Police chief is having health problems- heart trouble. He hasn't been able to control his department much (or had much desire to) because of that, and it's also why he's retiring. And incidentally, the job description for the police chief was recently updated, which caused quite a bit of chatter among locals when it was publicized in the newspaper last week. The update included instructions on how to deal with police misconduct- namely that this is among the duties of the police chief.

I just hope none of the current officers are promoted to his position! That would be awful.

I have to say that I like the current sheriff- Bill Lutze. He's thinking strategically and actually seems to be making changes- but that's just my impression from the newspapers. And we all know that they can distort the truth a bit- and also that Lutze is one of the officers who lied about Renee being found in a "ravine" - he stuttered so hopefully he felt guilty. I do know that Lutze was not endorsed by the "good 'ol boys" in the area when he ran for sheriff- his competitor was, so that gives most locals hope that maybe he'll make positive changes.

[cabojenn]

:eek: Wow, I had no clue of all of that information! I must read it a few more times to let it all sink in - I'm in a state of shock right now I don't understand how people whos job is "to serve and protect" could do these things -:confused: I'm dumbfounded, I cant believe the distance she walked-So heartwrenching to think that this is the way a person had to go, not just a person but Nae, she was always the first one to think of another, to help out to do anything for someone else. So very true.And yet at her time of need the only ones who could have helped her sat on their asses and ignored concerned peoples notifications of her walking alone with inappropriate clothing and gear. I hope that all involved that did not make finding her top priority have the same thing happen to themselves but worse. This world is so unjust and unfair at times - it honestly sickens me!:( :flamemad:

Renee NEVER went to our home without bringing something, no matter the size or cost. It could be something silly like a pen and some paper for my mom from a thrift shop; my mom never seemed to have those "little" things because she had an abundance of crayons and colored paper (compliments of her grandchildren). I remember my mom telling me how Renee would call to kind-of invite herself over a lot, but always bring dessert or something.

In fact, it was Renee that at times seemed to keep the family together. She made sure to call everyone out of the blue. I swear she kept track of who she hadn't called in a while as she wrote down EVERYTHING. (That's how I know she wasn't up there to buy drugs etc.). I am surprised that she didn't keep notes of her journey through the canyon like, "Made wrong turn? Car broke. Started walking at ?? O'clock. Tried calling so-and-so for help. Family gave me water. etc...". I know she made notes along the other parts of that week and maybe even that morning because I saw them, though not everything was time/dated. It absolutely breaks my heart at how many times she tried to call her son, unsuccessfully, because she kept notes on that too.

[LetsBeConcerned]

Weekend of July 8 & 9, 2006

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/Rjuly8.jpg

Article continues...

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/Rjuly8p2.jpg

[Inyo Native]

I have a copy of that paper, there's an article on the front page below that one, you can see the headline "Top Cop." I snickered when I read it because it was an article about an officer (I think it was Bishop Police chief Pecsi) winning an award. If you delve further into the article, it becomes apparent it wasn't so much an award as a certificate of completion (he took many training programs). Typical way to distort the facts- but to be fair, he didn't expect the "award" to be publicized and to be honored for it at a ceremony, it was a surprise thing.

[curiousfriend]

By the way how is the little guy doing? I hope that her family gets to see him frequently! Is the ex involved with anything or shall I say was he ever other than being the "next of kin" to receive all the information from LE, which didn't amount to much obviously!!!!! Is the family still trying to pursue the case? What ever happened with that detective Tye Atwater that they had hired? Did he ever come up with anything? Actually second thought those probably aren't the proper questions to be asking out loud! I'm still very curious about those postcards too! I did a search on that webshots site for batboy some freaky things came up on my screen - amazing how many people knew of him!:rose:

[cabojenn]

By the way how is the little guy doing? I hope that her family gets to see him frequently! Is the ex involved with anything or shall I say was he ever other than being the "next of kin" to receive all the information from LE, which didn't amount to much obviously!!!!! Is the family still trying to pursue the case? What ever happened with that detective Tye Atwater that they had hired? Did he ever come up with anything? Actually second thought those probably aren't the proper questions to be asking out loud! I'm still very curious about those postcards too! I did a search on that webshots site for batboy some freaky things came up on my screen - amazing how many people knew of him!:rose:

Kind of hard to answer your questions. I do not know how he is doing other than Renee's mom does get to see him. I tried to see him when I was there last April but he was unable to come...I don't know why.

I'd like to see those images of batboy if you wouldn't mind sending links.

[dallasvic]

The sad thing about this case she is dead and we may never know the whole truth of what happen since the cops are trying to cover their butts:no:
:rose: My Heart is with the family:rose:
:rose: For Renee RIP

[Inyo Native]

I just watched "Hot Fuzz" tonight and that movie seriously reminded me of Inyo County! Even though it's a spoof. If you've seen it, you'll know what I mean...

[Jer's Grandma]

Here is another "scarey" movie.

http://www.fandango.com/thechinalakemurders_v9332/summary

For those who don't know where China Lake is--it's approx 95 miles south of Independence, Ca. and although Google maps show it as fairly close to populated areas, there are many long lonely stretches of road- specifically heading to the Death Valley area. It borders on the Naval Weapons Center but I'm not sure if you can get into that area.

[Jer's Grandma]

Sorry, I forgot to mention- scroll down the left side of the page and watch the short video. Inyo County is a very large area with a very small population.

[tandarat]

There was a CHP officer out of the Barstow dispatch that attacked and killed at least one woman (don't remember if there were more). Went to find his name, and found this blog entry (with interesting commentary) about ANOTHER CHP officer I had forgotten about, down in the San Diego area.

http://sandiegoblog.com/archives/2004/09/06/craig-peyer-chp-killer/

Barstow is still pretty darn isolated, though not as bad now as it was in the '80's. I'd have to say that it was as deserted, if not moreso, than Inyo county is today. I had a friend in the CHP about 10 years ago who said that Barstow was by far the most corrupt CHP outfit, and they were blatant about it. I guess one reason I'm not surprised by ICSO's arrogance, incompetence, and alleged intimidation I've recently read about. In the type of environment they work in....isolated, "brutal" weather and geography....creates a culture among the entire local population that makes this type of corruption and abuse of power easy to perpetuate. Not that I'm saying all, or even most, of the residents of Inyo county condone (or even know about) these actions, but the isolation and challenging environment creates a combination of two seemingly opposite needs....incredible independence, fortitude and ability to "do what it takes" to survive combined with an incredible sense of closeness to one's neighbors, community, and those who can protect you (police, fire, etc.) Look at a lot of the frontier towns in our national history. You saw corruption of law enforcement and politics, distrust of outsiders (and less compassion for them as victims), etc.

I would not be surprised if at least part of the reason LE gets away with so much cr*p is because many residents are afraid to even CONSIDER the possibility that LE is either corrupt or a danger. If the guys who are supposed to come to your aid if you get into a situation you can't take care of yourself (remember....you got to be pretty darn tough to live out there in the first place....the outskirts of Independence, CA ain't no suburb) can't be trusted....

The problem is that if LE get TOO arrogant (which is inevitable eventually), it WILL backfire at some point, and then watch out. If LE is "lucky", it'll hit the fan then the locals force it back to an "acceptable" level of corruption...one that doesn't disrupt their lives too much. If EVERYONE is lucky, all the dirty laundry is aired out and major changes are made, hopefully preventing future corruption, and the entire community is safer and better off for it.

Being realistic, considering all the factors surrounding Inyo County as a whole, I just don't see the latter happening anytime soon. I can see a blow up coming if they don't get wise, though. More and more I come across in the paper and other news sources (not even looking) makes it clear to me that LE in Inyo is pretty much out of control. They know it, and they don't care.

Would I be surprised if one or more ICSO deputies are involved in serious crimes (as in assault, rape, kidnapping, murder, etc.)? Heck no. Do I think they'll get caught? If LE arrogance keeps going the way it is, I'd put money on it. Will it change anything once they do get caught? Maybe...for awhile. But truthfully, I don't think anything major will change until the entire area begins to change, as it most likely will over the next 50-100 years. Apple Valley and Victorville used to be as isolated as Bishop...look at them now. The suburban "creep" will hit Inyo eventually...not for awhile because it is so inhospitable, but it will. And slowly LE will have to change with it. Until then, I think LE will get away with whatever it wants to until one or more get too cocky and screw up majorly, with everything blowing up in their face. They'll become "more careful" for awhile, but nothing will really change until the demographics change.

Just my thoughts. Didn't mean to write an article on this...sorry :eek:

[Inyo Native]

That's a pretty good analysis! I do hope that in this day and age, changes can be made. I mean, it's a lot easier to send information to many people, and it looks like the ACLU is hopeful about using internet technology to band together too. They have a good handbook on combating police abuse: http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14614pub19971201.html

[Jer's Grandma]

Apple Valley and Victorville used to be as isolated as Bishop...look at them now. The suburban "creep" will hit Inyo eventually...not for awhile because it is so inhospitable, but it will. And slowly LE will have to change with it. Until then, I think LE will get away with whatever it wants to until one or more get too cocky and screw up majorly, with everything blowing up in their face. They'll become "more careful" for awhile, but nothing will really change until the demographics change.

Just my thoughts. Didn't mean to write an article on this...sorry :eek:[/QUOTE]

-------------
I found this while doing a bit of searching. There doesn't seem to be much land under private ownership so probably the area won't be developed soon. (IMHO) I remember at one time the mayor of LA came to Bishop to promote developement of new homes as ameans of tax revenues for the county. That idea was kiboshed when it was brought up where they were to get water for these homes--it's all going to LA.

With a total population of under 18,000, many will not be of voting age so it would be easy to vote in the good old boys. (Again, IMO)

The budget was interesting to the point that LE pay probably wouldn't be enough to attract the best--I plan to look at it more when time permits.
In the archives the Sept 2006 budget, mention is made of possible litigation in two deaths--does anyone know the nature of these deaths?
(see second URL below)
--------------------------------------

Inyo statistics- land ownership, etc

http://www.inyocounty.us/

Land in Federal ownership 92.0%
Land owned by City of Los Angeles 3.9%
Land in State ownership 2.4%
Land in private ownership 1.7%
Population (2000 census) 17,945
Households (2000 census) 7,703
Median Family Income (2002 est.) $42,100

-------------------
http://www.inyocounty.us/Board%20Agenda%
20Minutes/board_minutes_budget_hearings,_2006.htm


budget hearings sept 11-12 2006


"He noted that the budget was balanced with a $500,000 budget for the
capital murder litigation, explaining that while it has been reported
that the case was settled, there are pending charges against that
litigation as well as possible future litigation concerning two recent
deaths in the County."

[Jer's Grandma]

Sorry for my previous post being confusing--I don't know how to reply to just part of a previous message.

[Inyo Native]

http://www.inyocounty.us/Board%20Agenda%20Minutes/board_minutes_budget_hearings,_2006.htm



budget hearings sept 11-12 2006


"He noted that the budget was balanced with a $500,000 budget for the
capital murder litigation, explaining that while it has been reported
that the case was settled, there are pending charges against that
litigation as well as possible future litigation concerning two recent
deaths in the County."

Given the timing, he could be talking about Renee and Shaleen, although I'm not sure there is any way Shaleen's family can sue. Renee's seems like a clear case of neglect though, and they have already admitted that the dispatcher failed to inform a deputy about her.

I'm not sure what he means by "litigation" though- this could also mean that they were budgeting for a trial in case they were homicide cases. Actually, that sounds more likely for both of their cases because they were still waiting on the toxicology results, right?

That's very interesting, I never saw that and I've been reading the board meeting minutes too!

[LetsBeConcerned]

-------------
I found this while doing a bit of searching. There doesn't seem to be much land under private ownership so probably the area won't be developed soon. (IMHO) I remember at one time the mayor of LA came to Bishop to promote developement of new homes as ameans of tax revenues for the county. That idea was kiboshed when it was brought up where they were to get water for these homes--it's all going to LA.

With a total population of under 18,000, many will not be of voting age so it would be easy to vote in the good old boys. (Again, IMO)

The budget was interesting to the point that LE pay probably wouldn't be enough to attract the best--I plan to look at it more when time permits.
In the archives the Sept 2006 budget, mention is made of possible litigation in two deaths--does anyone know the nature of these deaths?
(see second URL below)
--------------------------------------

Inyo statistics- land ownership, etc

http://www.inyocounty.us/

Land in Federal ownership 92.0%
Land owned by City of Los Angeles 3.9%
Land in State ownership 2.4%
Land in private ownership 1.7%
Population (2000 census) 17,945
Households (2000 census) 7,703
Median Family Income (2002 est.) $42,100

-------------------
http://www.inyocounty.us/Board%20Agenda%
20Minutes/board_minutes_budget_hearings,_2006.htm


budget hearings sept 11-12 2006


"He noted that the budget was balanced with a $500,000 budget for the
capital murder litigation, explaining that while it has been reported
that the case was settled, there are pending charges against that
litigation as well as possible future litigation concerning two recent
deaths in the County."

Excellent Post~!!! :) :beer: :)

Inyo County~~
“The Adventure Capital of the World”~!!!

http://www.inyocounty.us/index.htm
http://www.inyocounty.us/Board%20Agenda%20Minutes/board_minutes_budget_hearings,_2006.htm

There were other deaths last year besides the ones mentioned on the this thread in Inyo county…If I recall correctly, there was the one that worked for a school district but I don’t remember how long that person was missing before that person was found Just that he/she was found in the wilderness in a popular area, by a river. There is also a man that had fallen or jumped into a lake that had gotten separated from his friends and found later. Then there is the guy found with his arms at his side and his face in the lake. I believe that there were more, but I don’t remember all the details. .

http://www.cagenweb.com/inyo/obittranscriptions/kurt-freewald2.txt

http://www.ridgecrestca.com/articles/2006/07/13/news/news01.txt

I also remember the German Family that went missing 11 years ago, and they still have not found them either~!!!! 4 people…. A Mom, Dad and 2 sons, Vanished in the middle of Death Valley~!!! Their car with flat tires and personal belongings were found but not the people themselves~!!! I recall, watching it on TV years ago, the story of the German tourists, that the area was being referred to as the “New Bermuda Triangle”(on land). Where people just vanish~!!! With no explanations…

Inyo County may be scarcely populated but remember, that it covers over 10 thousand square miles~!!! Which makes it only sparser.

So what happens in one town, that information does not always travel to the next town, which could be hundreds of miles apart…especially if that missing person is not from that area?

It is also an area that impresses me that the tourists and vacationers out number the residents in certain seasons.

There are 18 occupied cities in the county… The largest being Bishop with 3,500… other cities with less than 100~!!!

Which brings back another memory of a lady that went missing in November 2006 after voting… She was found miles away from her car and home and days (maybe weeks~???) LATER~!!! In the town of Pearsonville, with a Population 27~!!!!!!

I do not know which 2 recent deaths that they where talking about in their budget 2006 meeting. It would be interesting to know which deaths that they were talking about. I would also think that these deaths may not have ever been discussed publicly, simply because of pending future litigation~!!!

I also would like to know more about "the capital murder litigation, explaining that while it has been reported that the case was settled, there are pending charges against that litigation"

More Questions~~~ With No Answers~~!!

:rose: :shrug: :rose: :shrug: :rose::shrug: :rose:

[Inyo Native]

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"]

I do not know which 2 recent deaths that they where talking about in their budget 2006 meeting. It would be interesting to know which deaths that they were talking about. I would also think that these deaths may not have ever been discussed publicly, simply because of pending future litigation~!!!

I also would like to know more about "the capital murder litigation, explaining that while it has been reported that the case was settled, there are pending charges against that litigation"

More Questions~~~ With No Answers~~!!



The capital murder trial they were speaking about is Wayne Bengochia's case:
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_181.shtml

He shot and killed Dave Pettet, and following this incident the "KKK" (or somebody pretending to be) threatened to kill Native American children in retaliation. This was pretty ridiculous, especially considering the fact that Pettet had Native American kids of his own, and there was a big public outcry. Incidentally, this homicide happened in a year that the FBI crime statistics report there were no homicides in Bishop! http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_08_ca.html

-------
This is kind of off topic, but I just noticed something else- an article about the sheriff who embezzled money:
http://www.sierrawave.tv/artman/publish/article_165.shtml

[tandarat]

OK, being fair to Inyo County and the civil service out there (LE, fire, search and rescue, park rangers, etc.), Inyo is smack in the middle of some of the most dangerous and inhospitable geography in the world. Bringing tourists (the vast majority of whom honestly have no idea exactly HOW dangerous the California desert, both low and high, can be) doesn't help.

Unless you've been there, spent time there, you can have no idea. I grew up in California, near wilderness, but not desert (northern CA...Mt. Diablo and surrounding areas). I know enough about how dangerous THOSE areas are (temperate forest and grassland foothills and mountain areas, mostly) to know that I would NOT want to mess around out in the desert, even "close" to a populated area, without being prepared for spending at least a couple of days in extreme heat and cold, letting as many people as I could what my itinerary would be, and when to be expected home. I would not go out with the intention of going overnight in a non-designated/public campground without someone who really knew the area, and then I would be over-prepared.

One thing I found strange was how many people in southern CA get lost hiking once we moved down there. These aren't "tourists", either...these are people who know the areas they were in well, and know (or should know) the risks. Even places such as the Angeles National Forest can be deadly during the summer if you take a wrong turn, or even misstep and fall. I am not surprised that there are many, many deaths in Inyo county, considering the location, the lack of population, and its popularity as a place to visit. The desert has a kind of magical "draw" for people, and the fact that people watch so many movies, read about it, see it in pictures, and hear so many stories, they get lulled into a sense of security that can be very dangerous even in more forgiving places. I can also see how locals can start to feel some contempt for these people, who go out and do what are, to people who know the area and land, obviously stupid, ridiculous things, and then get hurt or killed.

Unlike the movies, the hero doesn't suddenly appear to get you out of a really bad mess in the end. In the real world, you die, alone, and the chances of finding you in the middle of thousands of square miles of sand, rock, and scrub brush before the wildlife gets to your remains, making discovery even more unlikely, is pretty darn slim. I have no doubt those German tourists got lost, maybe got cocky (hey, I'm german...knowing some of my relatives, I can guess EXACTLY what happened and how...ahem...), drove the car off road (accidentally or on purpose), and then decided to try to "hike out". Unfortunately for them, you don't just "hike out" of Death Valley, or any other desert. I cry inside for those two children, and the parents, too...the mental anguish they must have endured, and the pain. Heat exposure is not a good way to go, and neither is dehydration. Perhaps they will be found someday, like some of the remains (and natural mummies) of others who got lost a century ago are discovered on a somewhat regular basis these days.

The ones that make me angry are the ones like Renee, who *might* have been saved if authorities had responded sooner, and as close as her body was to the road AND to town, should have been recovered within days of her disappearance, especially with the help of volunteers such as Equussearch, who were prevented from looking in the area she was eventually found (and, using any common sense, was a very valid, very good place to search in the first place....multiple times). The fact that there are so many odd, unanswered questions with her case makes it even more maddening. If she HAD been found sooner, there might be fewer questions, and perhaps less suspicion (or a better idea of what really happened).

And, although I acknowledge the fact that it is easy to become numb and even contemptuous of ignorant tourists who get into trouble, those responsible for getting these people OUT of trouble and bringing them home (who also may be the most susceptible to this attitude just for the sheer number of people they come across who "should know better") need to be the most mindful of their responsibilities, and the fact that unless someone is exposed to this type of environment and actually TAUGHT what to do, they truly can't know ALL the possible dangers...such as Renee innocently taking a wrong turn and getting the car stuck, and attempting to walk back. IF she took meth during that time (and I have my doubts because of the condition of her body and the fact that meth is stored in fat and released during times of stress, fatigue, hyperthermia and dehydration, all of which she suffered that day/night), it is very possible she did not know how her body's ability to tolerate the drug was affected by her sobriety, the temperature, and the stress she had put on her body walking in the sand and heat for hours. I *could* even see her taking it to try to stay awake and alert enough when she was so exhausted she felt she could not go on, with dire consequences. No one can say for sure, at this point, but if she had been found sooner, possibly even alive, we might have had those answers.

It's a shame, and, even I (who really feels that people too often place blame too quickly when there is really just a tragic accident or misfortune) believe that a lot could have, and SHOULD have been done much sooner than it did.

[dallasvic]

Here is an article that was written when Renee first went missing~!!

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/R-Article-1.jpg

Thanks for the pics

[Inyo Native]

http://www.ksrw.sierrawave.net/site/content/view/233/38/

This makes me sick. The obvious bias in it, that is. I had another (media) person verify that it was biased, since I myself am biased in the opposite way.

It's amazing how much my perception of the media in Inyo has flipped. I once hated the Inyo Register and liked the Sierra Wave, but now my feelings are quite the opposite. They've gone soft, and not in a good way.*


*Just my opinion, of course.

[Inyo Native]

On the other hand, I may be misinterpreting it. The author can be abrasive in her articles without meaning to be, from what I've seen. I must also give credit where it's due- they allow people to post comments which disagree with them or give opinions that aren't normally published in the media (at least in Inyo). I guess this is kind of off topic, isn't it? So I'll stop beating a dead horse...

[LetsBeConcerned]

Unlike the movies, the hero doesn't suddenly appear to get you out of a really bad mess in the end. In the real world, you die, alone, and the chances of finding you in the middle of thousands of square miles of sand, rock, and scrub brush before the wildlife gets to your remains, making discovery even more unlikely, is pretty darn slim. I have no doubt those German tourists got lost, maybe got cocky (hey, I'm german...knowing some of my relatives, I can guess EXACTLY what happened and how...ahem...), drove the car off road (accidentally or on purpose), and then decided to try to "hike out". Unfortunately for them, you don't just "hike out" of Death Valley, or any other desert. I cry inside for those two children, and the parents, too...the mental anguish they must have endured, and the pain. Heat exposure is not a good way to go, and neither is dehydration. Perhaps they will be found someday, like some of the remains (and natural mummies) of others who got lost a century ago are discovered on a somewhat regular basis these days.

It's a shame, and, even I (who really feels that people too often place blame too quickly when there is really just a tragic accident or misfortune) believe that a lot could have, and SHOULD have been done much sooner than it did.

<snipped>




The German tourists in 1996 were last seen at a tourist center where they bought a booklet on Death Valley. I not sure if they ever left the road. Just that their rented van was found with 3 flat tires, and not until months later.

I would have long forgotten about these tourists, if it were not for Renee~!!! I went up to Inyo County on Friday, July 28, 2006 along with others to try to help in the search for Renee. When we went into the hotel lobby, there were tourists also there, as they left the lobby they spoke to each other in a foreign Language.

We had walked up to the clerk and said that we were here to search the missing woman. The clerk then says, “Oh, you must be German~!” as another clerk says, “I read about that in the paper~!” We could tell that they had us confused with the group that just left. Yet what other article were they talking about~??? Maybe us, but why would they think that we were German~???:shrug:

I looked up and over at the last tourist leaving, and he had stopped and turned around to look at Renee’s flyer that we had just hung on the glass door. He stopped and kissed his hand and touched Renee’s picture. He called his friends over to look at Renee’s flyer. They all came over, read the flyer, stood in a circle, kissed their fingers and touched Renee’s picture. They then bowed their heads and prayed for Renee~!~!~!~! I was very moved by this scene.

I wanted to walk up and talk to them, but that would have only confused the situation, since to was apparent that we were being confused, by the hotel clerks, as being of the same party instead 2 different groups…We also needed to make sure we got the right rooms~!

Later, I would go to different cities and would talk to different merchants and ask if they would mind if I hung a missing person poster in there window~? Again I was asked if I was German~? :shrug: This scenario would repeat it’s self…

Then someone said “have you read the local paper~?” (no I hadn’t) I would later pick up a paper and on the front page was “BODY FOUND” That body would turn out to be Shaleen~! Not Renee~!! Yet still would not explain why being German was important~!!

I would then later find out that it was the commencement of the 10 year anniversary of the missing German family… that week~!!! The German Family was last seen at a Tourist Center on July 22, 1996 purchasing a booklet on Death Valley…They were suppose to arrive in Germany July 29… Interpol reported them missing August 14…the van was found by happenstance on October 26, 1996 … AFTER that… the search started for this FAMILY~!!! 3 MONTHS LATER~!!! The only thing that they found was a beer bottle~!!!! With 40 days of over 120 degree heat there bodies would have mummified~!!! Yet nothing has been found~!!!

It was earlier that week that the newspapers had written articles on the Tourists.

Those German Tourists were last seen on July 22, 1996.

Ten years Later, I was up there on July 28, 2006 looking for Renee and checking into a hotel.

I occasionally think about that prayer circle and would wonder if they knew or were related to the German Tourist that went missing in 1996… Either way, I do feel for their family and friends…TEN YEARS~!!!! Is much to long to go without knowing where your loved ones are~!!!!!!

I feel for the family of German Tourists and their anguish… I feel for how painful and hard it is to find answers when you live in a different country on the other side of the world~!!!!

I am even more touched and moved by the memory of those people who did not know Renee but took the time to stop and pray for her safe return~!!!!!



:rose:A mother, Cornelia Meyer 33:rose:
:rose:her son, Max Meyer, 4; :rose:
:rose:Her friend Egbert Rimkus, 33:rose:
:rose:His son, Georg Weber 10:rose:

May their family one-day find the answers that they seek~!!!

[LetsBeConcerned]

On the other hand, I may be misinterpreting it. The author can be abrasive in her articles without meaning to be, from what I've seen. I must also give credit where it's due- they allow people to post comments which disagree with them or give opinions that aren't normally published in the media (at least in Inyo). I guess this is kind of off topic, isn't it? So I'll stop beating a dead horse...

I agree, the written articles, are sometimes just a synopsis of what actually airs on TV. The reporter gave a better impression on what actually aired on TV, and the controversy, a little clearer. The sheriff’s contend that Braley refused to leave the establishment….

Yet~!!! The U-Tube video shows that the arrest happened outside and away from the bar and possibly even further away from the cop cars. Also, considering the distance from the cop cars, the police would have had to run up on the group to arrest Braley. It seems pretty clear to me that there was no resistance and therefore no reason for the cop to use his hands and knee to Grind the man’s face into the asphalt~!:no: :no::no:

[tandarat]

The one thing I found completely uneccesary and out of context was the last paragraph. I have a feeling it was used only because the relationship between the people involved and Josh Loy.

Without explanation, it skews people's views to think of him as a rapist or pedophile, when in reality he may have just been caught trying to hire a hooker, or, depending on his age, may have even had a 16 or 17-year-old girlfriend when he was 18 and mama or daddy of the girl got ticked off. I don't know the facts, so can't say.

I DO believe that if it was something really bad, they would have made sure to make more than a "mention" of it, and would include the actual crime involved, don't you think?

THAT was what came across as biased to me. The rest could have been read either way.

I don't think there was really enough on the video tape to make any decision....it only shows him flat on the ground being handcuffed...I've seen rougher handcuffing, too. I wish more had been made available.

Michelle

[tandarat]

The German tourists in 1996 were last seen at a tourist center where they bought a booklet on Death Valley. I not sure if they ever left the road. Just that their rented van was found with 3 flat tires, and not until months later.

...We had walked up to the clerk and said that we were here to search the missing woman. The clerk then says, “Oh, you must be German~!” as another clerk says, “I read about that in the paper~!” We could tell that they had us confused with the group that just left. Yet what other article were they talking about~??? Maybe us, but why would they think that we were German~???:shrug:

...

Later, I would go to different cities and would talk to different merchants and ask if they would mind if I hung a missing person poster in there window~? Again I was asked if I was German~? :shrug: This scenario would repeat it’s self…

Then someone said “have you read the local paper~?” (no I hadn’t) I would later pick up a paper and on the front page was “BODY FOUND” That body would turn out to be Shaleen~! Not Renee~!! Yet still would not explain why being German was important~!!

I would then later find out that it was the commencement of the 10 year anniversary of the missing German family… that week~!!! The German Family was last seen at a Tourist Center on July 22, 1996 purchasing a booklet on Death Valley…They were suppose to arrive in Germany July 29… Interpol reported them missing August 14…the van was found by happenstance on October 26, 1996 … AFTER that… the search started for this FAMILY~!!! 3 MONTHS LATER~!!! The only thing that they found was a beer bottle~!!!! With 40 days of over 120 degree heat there bodies would have mummified~!!! Yet nothing has been found~!!!

It was earlier that week that the newspapers had written articles on the Tourists.

Those German Tourists were last seen on July 22, 1996.

Ten years Later, I was up there on July 28, 2006 looking for Renee and checking into a hotel.




I did some snooping around awhile ago regarding this family. Everything I could find pointed to them getting lost and trying to hike their way out. They did find a flag in the car that belonged to a local historic landmark (don't remember what it was), and they had signed a guestbook, which was discovered when searchers were trying to trace their steps.

I can't say exactly, but I vaguely remember that the car was found either on an unpaved service road or some kind of trail not meant for "regular" cars....something not even a "normal" street 4-wheel-drive could handle. A couple of articles made a big deal of beer cans or bottles or some such found in the car, but those may have been consumed AFTER they were stuck (if they didn't have any water, even though alcohol can dehydrate you....they may have tried to use the beer instead), and even if that wasn't the case (germans often do drink quite a bit, but they don't tend to binge as much as americans, do,and don't look at it as a "taboo"...they tend to hold there liquor pretty well....ahem... not an excuse, but explaining a different culture and how beer cans didn't surprise me, nor did it make me think, "stupid, drunk, partying german tourists").

I may in the end be proved wrong, but this is what I think happened to these poor people, and my heart goes out to them and their families:

They drove into a desert they did not know as an "adventure", just like thousands (maybe even millions) do all over the world every year. They were not familiar with the inherent dangers of the desert, nor were they familiar with the area, or even the country in which they travelled. This puts them at an even higher disadvantage...you and I can kind of tell, instinctively, if a road is seriously off the beaten path by how it looks, whether it is paved, and if it is, the upkeep, how it is marked, etc. Add to that the illusions you get in the desert...how close something may appear but really be miles (sometimes hundreds of miles) away, them reading a map in a second language (even though most, if not all, germans know SOME english, it is like you or I taking Spanish in high school and using it only rarely in real life), and most likely not being very prepared for the extremes of the desert or the dangers of taking some of the side roads or trails most likely shown on the map.

Maybe they took a road on the map and didn't realize that the car they drove was not equipped to handle the terrain. Maybe they took an unmarked road, thinking it was the right one. Maybe they thought they could safely take an unmarked road to go off the beaten path and see something "special" on their adventure.

In any case, the car obviously became disabled. Whether the tires were punctured by rocks, or perhaps even blew due to the heat, they obviously could not go anywhere. They probably knew they were in trouble...may have stayed as long as they could for help, or thought that was suicide (especially if they were off the beaten path, as they obviously were), and immediately sought help. Since no one was found near the car, they probably went as a group, but I could see one of the adults heading out first to try to get help while the other stayed with the kids...can you imagine trying to get a 4-year-old through that kind of terrain? They lose water soooo fast, and they tire...and trust me, they aren't lightweights anymore. Maybe if one left, and perhaps pinpointed lights in the distance, or thought they could move in a straight line in the general direction they came from, rather than follow the road. It is so easy to get lost, and without water, they could not get far.

I can only imagine what went through their minds struggling through the desert like that...the guilt they felt about leading their kids to death, not knowing where they were, watching each die, or, if they did split up, not knowing what happened to the others...hoping maybe they got out, but knowing the chances were pretty slim...it is hard to think about.

I also wonder if some of the people in the area DID get the two incidences confused, and so didn't think much of Renee, when otherwise they may have gone out to help with the search. If a big deal HAD been made leading up to the 10th aniversary of the disappearance of the German tourists, that easily could have happened.

What a sad coincidence.

Michelle

[Inyo Native]

The one thing I found completely uneccesary and out of context was the last paragraph. I have a feeling it was used only because the relationship between the people involved and Josh Loy.

Without explanation, it skews people's views to think of him as a rapist or pedophile, when in reality he may have just been caught trying to hire a hooker, or, depending on his age, may have even had a 16 or 17-year-old girlfriend when he was 18 and mama or daddy of the girl got ticked off. I don't know the facts, so can't say.

I DO believe that if it was something really bad, they would have made sure to make more than a "mention" of it, and would include the actual crime involved, don't you think?

THAT was what came across as biased to me. The rest could have been read either way.

Michelle

Yeah, they got the crimes wrong too- all but that one. That "unlawful intercourse" crime they mentioned involved an underage girlfriend, she turned him in for revenge when she got angry at him. One of her friends stuck up for Braley when I mentioned it, saying "She wasn't THAT young." They later got back together, and have had an on/off relationship since. It's kind of a joke among those who know him- their relationship and how much trouble he has gotten into because of it. He insists that he has been innocent for the majority of the petty crimes and just took the plea because he didn't want to gamble on getting a harsher sentence if he was convicted.



I don't think there was really enough on the video tape to make any decision....it only shows him flat on the ground being handcuffed...I've seen rougher handcuffing, too. I wish more had been made available.



I do wish more footage was available too, but they approached too fast and took him down within a few seconds. There is some stuff on there though- it's hard to see because it all happened so quickly, but he is in a chokehold in the first few seconds of the video. Here's a slower version posted on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB5zElHbHZ0

I didn't catch that until I watched it frame by frame, although a former police officer caught it and pointed out that it was improper/illegal under the circumstances.

Also, he was pretty far from the bar. I just don't see how they can justify that with the story they told the media.

I do hate how the police act like they were responsible with treating his injuries too- they HAD to let him get treatment, so they called an ambulance to get him and released him to the hospital. They released him because they would have had to pay for his medical treatment if he were in custody. And it's a motive for them to press charges- so they can justify the force and not be disciplined/sued.

[LetsBeConcerned]

I have gone ahead and done some editing of some of these Newspapers. I have made this decision on my own. Whether or not it is part of the rules. I feel that the privacy of the citizens should be respected as well as protected. If they choose to have their identity on the Internet, that should be their choice and their choice ALONE~!!! No one, including myself, should be making that decision for them.

I have been collecting newspapers on Renee’s case. Even though I do NOT have all of them,… I want to thank ALL of those that were part of this human chain. Friends telling friends, “If you know someone or know someone who knows someone, from the area, get a local paper.” This story got to the truck drivers going thru Inyo County. Not really knowing Renee, but wanting to help in anyway they can. These Truckers, started picking up a newspaper whenever they could. Then making sure it got back to people that knew Renee and they got it to me.

I guess it really is true… “If you got it, A Trucker Brought It~!!!!”

I know that some of these papers have been seen, yet so many have not, it was a lot for me to absorb as well… In order to keep the time line straight, and keep some consistency to lessen the confusion, I will post these local papers in order. Since they are not online, there are no links~!! Be a little patient, since my older scanner and my “newer” computer argue/crash a lot~!!!

There have been a very many good people that have been helping to find out what happened to Renee, not all knowing her or even living in this state~!! To paraphrase another article,

“Relatives take to the ‘Net”…
The search intensifies as friends and even concerned strangers from across the country are working with outside resources on its own to help find Renee Fox and keep her disappearance in the eyes of the public.

I personally want to thank EACH and everyone that has tried to help~!! It is truly amazing the strength of human kindness~!!!!! I have gotten many e-mails of advice and encouragement~!! From people, that if we were standing in the same room, we would not know each other, yet we have developed a bond~!!

I also want to thank those that have taken the time to take pictures~!! They say a lot~!! They were taken by different people, at different times by people that didn’t know Renee but wanted help in anyway that they could~!!!

Then, for these people to go thru the effort to get them to people that actually knew Renee. Your efforts are nothing short of AWESOME~!!!!

Your love and concerned has not gone unnoticed~!!

:seeya: :seeya: May god bless you for your efforts, even if it was done anonymously, God has seen the love that you have shown to your fellow mankind~!!:seeya: :seeya:

[LetsBeConcerned]

The Inyo Register ~Tuesday~July 11, 2006

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/RJuly11.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/RJuly11p2bl.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

The Inyo Register ~Thursday~July 27, 2006

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/2body.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/2BODYA3-3-1.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

The Inyo Register ~Weekend~ July 29 & 30, 2006

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http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/bodyconfirm1A3.jpg

[Inyo Native]

Reading those articles makes me angry all over again! So much injustice, the way the county presses charges on innocent people and does not bother to pursue real crimes! It's ridiculous.

Here's a bit of good news:
ACLU and Bishop Elementary settle lawsuits (http://www.ksrw.sierrawave.net/site/content/view/245/38/)

The American Civil Liberties Union and the Bishop Elementary School District have reached a settlement on a harassment and racial discrimination lawsuit that stemmed from an incident at Home Street Middle School in October of 2005.

With racial tensions already high back then after a string of bad incidents, like the Wayne Petit murder, the threatening letters from a group calling themselves the Bishop KKK, and reportedly racially motivated fights at the high school, many in the community were upset when the Bishop Police Officer assigned to the schools arrested three Paiute students at the Middle School.

At the time it was reported that an altercation occurred after the School Resource Officer, told a student to remove a bandanna that was in violation of the school dress code. Mark Geyer, then superintendent, reported that bandannas could be considered gang-related.
Several students were suspended after this incident and some were arrested.

After requesting school records, the ACLU reports that they found “a long history of harsh disciplinary treatment against Native American students by school officials.” An ACLU lawyer reports that Native American students “were suspended at roughly four times their percentage in the population.”
...

The ACLU calls the settlement ground-breaking. According to an ACLU press release, the agreement calls for the removal of the school resource officer, which Superintendent Simpson says was already done two years ago. The students involved will have the incident removed from their records, and school staff will have to start professional development programs to “increase respect for different cultures, and to implement culturally appropriate curriculum change.”

There was a huge uproar because the students weren't technically breaking the law, they were only breaking arbitrary school rules- yet they were handcuffed and arrested by Bishop PD officer McClinton. Rumor has it that he was quietly fired over that incident, but I'm not sure if that's true (sometimes they're just taken off of patrol).

[curiousfriend]

While searching the internet i came across this website http://www.socalfunplaces.com/topic_desert.htm
Which has a lot of interesting things to do and places to see, etc., I saw Great Mojave desert link and couldn't help myself to start reading and to my amazement I found a couple of interesting things that I will cut and paste for you all to ponder . . .

After about a half-decade of absence we made it back out to the Bagdad Chase mine / Stedman / Ragtown / Rochester / Red Dog mine / Buckeye Mining District area. This area is extrememly dangerous with its 200+ different mining claims scattered throughout the area. Most are small prospects but others are very deep and very vertical shafts - off-roaders BEWARE!


This time around we came out with some old mine exploring friends and also several San Bernardino County Coroners and Homicide Detectives for a....well....weekend outting.

We rapelled down into a mighty shaft to see what was at the bottom. I figured there'd be nothing, and there wasn't anything, except for quite a few hundred feet of linear workings...

A makeshift wierdo station/living quarters just inside the entrance

The Husband Mine - Summer of '06
It's a talc mine. It's very large and untouched. It's location is very secret. The weekend we explored this mine, 2 German tourists perished right across the "street" from this location. They were hiking a mere 1/4 mile but with nothing more than the smallest bottle of water you can buy. The air temp was at 105-115 that day. The ground temp was ABOVE 200 degrees - near boiling. So once they succumed to heat stroke, that'd be like passing out on top of your BBQ grill. I'll leave the moral of this story up to you!

I just love those Bridges of Death! Or is it Bridge of Deaths? Either way, love 'em

The Bonanza Powder Mine - Summer of '06
It's also a talc mine. It's also very large and untouched. It's location, of course, also is very secret.


Things I pasted are in blue/red type, The pictures and the story continues . . . go check it out

[cabojenn]

We had walked up to the clerk and said that we were here to search the missing woman. The clerk then says, “Oh, you must be German~!” as another clerk says, “I read about that in the paper~!” We could tell that they had us confused with the group that just left. Yet what other article were they talking about~??? Maybe us, but why would they think that we were German~???:

***



Later, I would go to different cities and would talk to different merchants and ask if they would mind if I hung a missing person poster in there window~? Again I was asked if I was German~? This scenario would repeat it’s self…

***

Yet still would not explain why being German was important~!!


I am even more touched and moved by the memory of those people who did not know Renee but took the time to stop and pray for her safe return~!!!!!



:rose:A mother, Cornelia Meyer 33:
:rose:her son, Max Meyer, 4; :
:rose:Her friend Egbert Rimkus, 33:
:rose:His son, Georg Weber 10:

May their family one-day find the answers that they seek~!!!

Snipped only for length. You never told me that part of the story. I guess it's possible there are enough stories to last us for years from last year.

Maybe the people were on to something by asking if we were German. Not sure about whose side, but I know Renee and I (same grandparents) had some Pennsylvania Dutch in us! That makes us in part, German. Means nothing but I needed to find something amusing today. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Dutch

[cabojenn]

Renee should have been another year older and it also marks one year since our family held her memorial. Another of the songs played during her service was "Wake Me Up When September Ends" by Green Day.

"here comes the rain again
falling from the stars
drenched in my pain again
becoming who we are

as my memory rests
but never forgets what I lost
wake me up when september ends

summer has come and passed
the innocent can never last
wake me up when september ends"

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/greenday/wakemeupwhenseptemberends.html

[LetsBeConcerned]

Snipped only for length. You never told me that part of the story. I guess it's possible there are enough stories to last us for years from last year.

Maybe the people were on to something by asking if we were German. Not sure about whose side, but I know Renee and I (same grandparents) had some Pennsylvania Dutch in us! That makes us in part, German. Means nothing but I needed to find something amusing today. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Dutch

Some of the many things that get LOST IN Translation~!!!

The phrase “Pennsylvania Dutch” will always bring a giggle to my heart~!!!

Now this is just for fun, and all my opinion~!!

I thought I would share more of my own experiences of “are you German (dutch)~!!” From my immigrant Swedish grandmother~!!

My Swedish grandma explained to me the Americans will call me “Pennsylvania Dutch” Since Americans don’t understand the different languages they think they are the same, simply because we sound and look similar~!! She also explained that an old archaic meaning for Dutch, Deutsch, Duits, and what ever spellings that you can find for the word…the true translation of Dutch is “Home” this includes Deutschland, which also means “Home Land”, but if you looked it up you would find “Germany”… Well of course a German using the word “Deutschland” means Germany… but at the same time someone from the Netherlands, Switzerland even including Scandinavia using the word “Deutschland” are meaning “Home country” … Just one of the many things that “got lost in translation” while going thru Ellis Island~!!! So all of them were eventually referred to as “Dutch”

My grandma as well as trying to teach me the Swedish language, she also was trying to teach me to bake using Swedish recipes. She told me if I can’t find a Swedish market…go to another market that carries Ethnic ingredients…then go to the German Section, to find the ingredients” (But I thought we were Swedish~!) My grandma then explains how Americans are dumb and can’t tell the difference and German cooking can be a lot like Swedish, just like the language will sound the same to Americans.

She died when I was about 13.

I have long lost the ability to speak the language… Yet remember everything that I was taught by her~!!

CaboJenn, My Swedish grandmother is not related to you, but as you know that I have many pages of our family history~!!!:seeya:

I will refer to a letter written in 1897 to yours, mine & Renee’s Great Great Grandfather , Leonard Goheen, from his aunt stating “I will now attempt a history of the Goheen family. I will go back to about 4 generations. Goheen is an Irish name…..( his grandfather) married a woman whose parents came from Germany… (she dies and the grandfather) then “marries a dutch girl, but not German” You are a decendant of the second marriage…
<snipped for length>

(This includes us~!) We are also Welsh & English~!! Another subject that can get “Lost in Translation”;)

Now back to what happened in the Hotel Lobby… these tourists spoke at least dutch and at most German~!!! Yet, I did understand or at least seem to know what they were saying~!!! I was amazed by that~!!! My personal perception is that they were talking about if the clerk understood “their English”~??? Not only was my ear following, and eavesdropping but also found my body was also following this conversation… And then older family members calling me back and asked “are we German~?” It was a whiplash moment~!!!! I left at home the family history… My exact response was, “ Yes, …No,… What does it Matter~?”:shrug:

:confused: I really will never know where the confusion started or ended…. Just that there were people that came back from the search out in the desert and wanted a shower and clean clothes… well that did not happen (at least not imediately)… they came back and could not find their luggage~!!!!!… Who wants a shower without clean clothes…then there’s your prescribed medication and everything else that you can’t find either~!!!

I really do not know why a hotel would change rooms on a tenant, especially without telling them, but it did happen~!!! And we spoke perfect English~!!!!!:rolleyes:

[cabojenn]

It does not surprise me that you would understand some German or Dutch, or a variation of both. After the war, a lot of it was mixed together. My "FIL" tried to explain it to me as his family fled to the Americas during the war because Germany became unsafe, even for Germans, though probably around the time they were losing!

And while this is all totally off topic...it's still fun to know.:seeya:

[Jer's Grandma]

Some of the many things that get LOST IN Translation~!!!

(snipped)
Now back to what happened in the Hotel Lobby… these tourists spoke at least dutch and at most German~!!! Yet, I did understand or at least seem to know what they were saying~!!! I was amazed by that~!!! My personal perception is that they were talking about if the clerk understood “their English”~??? Not only was my ear following, and eavesdropping but also found my body was also following this conversation… And then older family members calling me back and asked “are we German~?” It was a whiplash moment~!!!! I left at home the family history… My exact response was, “ Yes, …No,… What does it Matter~?”:shrug:

:confused: I really will never know where the confusion started or ended…. Just that there were people that came back from the search out in the desert and wanted a shower and clean clothes… well that did not happen (at least not imediately)… they came back and could not find their luggage~!!!!!… Who wants a shower without clean clothes…then there’s your prescribed medication and everything else that you can’t find either~!!!

I really do not know why a hotel would change rooms on a tenant, especially without telling them, but it did happen~!!! And we spoke perfect English~!!!!!:rolleyes:

-------------------------
I found this on the Topix board- not sure if it may have anything to do with room changes or not. It's the last part about LE circling the hotel/motel. :shrug:



"case not closed
San Lucas, Mexico Reply »
|Flag |#35 Dec 8, 2006
How many OD'd bodies are found with their arms crossed?

Also, what the article about Renee didn't say was there was another
drug in her system. I don't know what drug yet, waiting for a phone
call on it...

No one knows this, but the items on the first postcard had been seen
along the canyon during the private search for Renee. And how weird,
that when the family was staying overnight for the search how the LE
cars circled the hotel (motel, whatever), several times but they never
even talked with any of them. Also, when Renee's mom went up there, the
Sheriff refused to see her. Maybe he was busy...

[LetsBeConcerned]

-------------------------
I found this on the Topix board- not sure if it may have anything to do with room changes or not. It's the last part about LE circling the hotel/motel. :shrug:



"case not closed
San Lucas, Mexico Reply »
|Flag |#35 Dec 8, 2006
How many OD'd bodies are found with their arms crossed?

Also, what the article about Renee didn't say was there was another
drug in her system. I don't know what drug yet, waiting for a phone
call on it...

No one knows this, but the items on the first postcard had been seen
along the canyon during the private search for Renee. And how weird,
that when the family was staying overnight for the search how the LE
cars circled the hotel (motel, whatever), several times but they never
even talked with any of them. Also, when Renee's mom went up there, the
Sheriff refused to see her. Maybe he was busy...



I am really not sure what happened with the hotel rooms….they where reserved by different people at different times with what ever was available…then when we got there, we had exchanged rooms within the group to ones that were more suitable…. Example would be a married couple with a room with two single beds exchanged with neighbors who drove up together, had one king bed….

I am not sure if the rooms in question were not reserved for two nights… or … they needed to be confirmed for the second night by morning…or

The clerks checked out the wrong parties out of the rooms… or

The hotel thought we would be happier being grouped together…or

It was dumb luck that there were people in our group that had reserved rooms for the second night, but decided to go home… which left rooms available for those that had been displaced…

Then there is the story that the person that was charged with the vacant rooms had asked not for a refund but to put the other occupied rooms on his tab instead. So it was thought that the hotel took this to mean transfer the occupant’s belongings to the more modern rooms… I later found out that this might not be likely since the luggage was moved to a storage room.

The speculation could go on,:confused: :shrug: but then again… there are worst things that could happen.

We were all to meet up for dinner. And the previous story explains some delays….

I would later notice that there was a Sheriff parked outside the restaurant that we were eating at. We stayed at the restaurant till about closing and then walked back to the hotel… I noticed that the Sheriff was finally gone… or so I thought.

As we crossed the street we noticed that the sheriff had only moved to the Hotel that we were staying at~!!! The sheriff would then park his car in front of the hotel. So all we had to do was walk out our room and he could see us. This sheriff didn’t check out the other hotels in the area, just staying parked in front or driving through the parking lot where we could see him from our window.

This all happened on Saturday.

It was on the Friday before that Renee’s mother had gone to talk to Detective Bedell,(in person since he hadn’t returned a phone call) and he was too busy to say hello~!!!

Back to …the walk from the restaurant to the hotel… as we saw the sheriff’s car on the corner…someone in our group had said what we all we thinking,… and quite loudly I might add..…

“WHERE WERE YOU~!!!!..… WHEN RENEE FIRST WENT MISSING~!!!”

[Inyo Native]

They were probably just trying to intimidate your family, which is really ridiculous- but they do stuff like that. Another favorite tactic is to tailgate cars, shine spotlights on cars, etc. They did the same thing to Josh Loy's mother, watching her while she fished, following her everywhere she went... She eventually called her family into town for protection and to serve as witnesses in case they tried to do something to her. We could never figure out why they would target her for harassment- sure, she was supporting Josh Loy, but he was her son so what did they expect? And he was her only surviving child from a fire that killed his sisters. So it was just ridiculous, and mean.

[LetsBeConcerned]

There are a few other things that I would like to add while passing out fliers in the county that same weekend…

One of the more poignant conversations that I had was with an owner of a store where I had asked her if she would mind displaying a flyer…She agreed, and asked for more so she could make copies and distribute a few herself … This proprietor would later try to catch up with me after I left…. I remember before getting into the car… she was yelling, “MISS … MISS… then when I went back … She said, “Ohhh~!! Thank goodness I caught up with you~!!! I wanted to let you know that you should not be doing this alone…You know that people disappear up here~!!”

At the same time… We were BOTH holding a “Missing Person Flyers” of Renee~!!

What she did not elaborate on was how many missing persons that have not been found~!!! She was very relieved to see that I was with other people, which were waiting in the car~!!!!

I thought it was very sweet of her to be concerned for my wellbeing, someone that she never met before~!!

I would go on and into other business’s …stopped at another one and went up to a proprietor with a flyer as a customer was there having a cup of coffee… This customer was shocked, and said “not another one, doesn’t this makes 3~!!” He then asked me for a flyer and went and sat in a booth.

I then proceeded to talk to the manager and he agreed to post a flyer behind the counter so that all his customers could see it, start a conversation about it and would call if he finds out anything.

As I was leaving, I looked over at the customer that I had given a flyer to, and noticed that this man was crying~!!! I walked over and asked if he was okay… He told me that he had moved up there many years ago because he thought it was a safe place to live. He told me that he did not feel that way anymore… He told me how pretty Renee was and that all of these people were young and beautiful and yet it was not safe for them to walk down the street~!!!… He asked, How could they disappear like that and why isn’t the police doing anything about it~???…He ended with “What is this world coming to~!!!”

I went on talked to many people throughout the day and little did any of us know that a postcard had been sent to the newspaper…

[LetsBeConcerned]

POSTCARD 1 FRONT~~ July 28
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/postcardfrontrenee1.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

POSTCARD BACK

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/postcardbackrenee11.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

Inyo Register

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/Re8-3-06bet.jpg http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/Re8-3-06p2better3.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

In the same paper on 8-3-06...on the second page is an annoucement of Shaleen’s "Cry Dance" :rose: :rose: :rose:


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/shaleenobit.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

Then there was a second postcard that was sent to the newspaper.


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/Postcard2Front2.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

The back of the Second Postcard



http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/Postcard2back22.jpg

[Northwest Girl]

Thanks for posting this Kathy, I had never seen the second postcard...
Do you know if the phone number belonged to anyone?

[gacountry]

I was very interested in this sad case but had drifted away from it, not out of lack of concern but just drifted. This new information posted has chills going down my spine. Something has been hidden in this case and it is scary. I plan to read this case more and am looking for justice and closure for these missing girls and their families.

[LetsBeConcerned]

Thanks for posting this Kathy, I had never seen the second postcard...
Do you know if the phone number belonged to anyone?

Dearest Auntie,

When I was sent the second postcard… I was also told if you called the phone # it was “no longer in service”…. I was also told that maybe it was some sort of “Numbers Game” like Su Doku and such…

I, like you, wanted to know who had this number before…

this is what I found….

http://www.tombstonetumbleweed.com/

It was the number to the advertising Department to a newspaper in Tombstone Arizona~!!! That went out of business about the same time that Renee went missing~!!!!

Love Ya~!!!!!
:seeya: :seeya:

[LetsBeConcerned]

I was very interested in this sad case but had drifted away from it, not out of lack of concern but just drifted. This new information posted has chills going down my spine. Something has been hidden in this case and it is scary. I plan to read this case more and am looking for justice and closure for these missing girls and their families.

Welcome to the board~!!!! These cases are in a definite need for some fresh eyes with a fresh look into these things~!!!:seeya: :seeya:

In Shaleen’s case, it has been 15 months, and THEY STILL have not ruled it a homicide or concluded the autopsy….:shrug:

It is incredibly frustrating~!!! Where a county can act like its own little Country and go by its “own set of rules”

IMO

[LetsBeConcerned]

When I was sent the second postcard… I was also told if you called the phone # it was “no longer in service”…. I was also told that maybe it was some sort of “Numbers Game” like Su Doku and such…


I just realize something else, since I long lost my “decoder ring”…

On the telephone there are letters that correspond the numbers

520-457-3008 would then be...

5 = JKL
2=ABC
0 = (OPER)
4-GHI
5=JKL
7=PQRS
3=DEF
0 = (OPER)
0 = (OPER)
8=TUV

Now if anyone wants to turn this into “a word game” or has any other ideas, we would love to hear it~!!!

[LetsBeConcerned]

Here is an article that explains who Elliot Ness was.

To Quote...
"Ness's career in law enforcement continued for a decade beyond the Capone years, a decade in which his very considerable talents flowered. At the age of 33 in Cleveland, he faced the challenge of his career when he took over the corrupt and incompetent police force in a city that had become a haven for gangsters."


the complete article is here...
http://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/cops_others/ness/1.html

[cabojenn]

Dearest Auntie,

When I was sent the second postcard… I was also told if you called the phone # it was “no longer in service”…. I was also told that maybe it was some sort of “Numbers Game” like Su Doku and such…

I, like you, wanted to know who had this number before…

this is what I found….

http://www.tombstonetumbleweed.com/

It was the number to the advertising Department to a newspaper in Tombstone Arizona~!!! That went out of business about the same time that Renee went missing~!!!!

Love Ya~!!!!!
:seeya: :seeya:

I remember that...literally made my stomach turn then, and again today. I remember calling the #, googling every word and town to see how they related. If it was all a hoax (postcards), someone has too much time on their hands and needs a good smack (and then some). I still think someone knows what really happened, and it isn't what LE and the newspapers claim.

[LetsBeConcerned]

A BODY IS FOUND ON MAZOURKA


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/RAugust12132006.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

ARTICLE CONTINUED...

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/RAugust12132006page2.jpg

[Inyo Native]

That is a very interesting ad below the article, which I never noticed before.

[LetsBeConcerned]

That is a very interesting ad below the article, which I never noticed before.


That very same ad appears in the Aug. 3, 2006 edition (It looks like the parents paid for the ad) I found it very interestingly sad~!!

Front page Renee Fox:rose:
page 2 Shaleen Duckey:rose:
page 3 Joe Riley:rose: & Mark Wayne Adamson:rose:

If this is such a "wonderful small town" Why don't they put the effort out to solve these crimes~???

Is the tourism industry more important to them than human lives~????

[cabojenn]

That very same ad appears in the Aug. 3, 2006 edition (It looks like the parents paid for the ad) I found it very interestingly sad~!!

Front page Renee Fox:rose:
page 2 Shaleen Duckey:rose:
page 3 Joe Riley:rose: & Mark Wayne Adamson:rose:

If this is such a "wonderful small town" Why don't they put the effort out to solve these crimes~???

Is the tourism industry more important to them than human lives~????


I think they are just too busy harassing locals. Of course, it's just my opinion.

[LetsBeConcerned]

I think they are just too busy harassing locals. Of course, it's just my opinion.

I honestly don't think that they limit themselves to harassing only the locals
but anyone who steps on their toes, anyone who inconveniences them or makes them
look bad~!!!
:tongue:

Sad thing is this does not exclude tourists. They will be treated as dumb vacationers.
IMO

[LetsBeConcerned]

Unable to Identify body.... "They doubt foul play was a factor in the person's death"

There are other things that this article says including questioning being nude and whether the area was searched ... etc...



http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/RAugust152006better.jpg

[LetsBeConcerned]

Body... Page 3, Inyo Register Aug. 15, 2006

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa288/glasscup6/RAugust152006page2better.jpg

[curiousfriend]

:shrug: Isn't the Orange County Coroner on trial for something right now? I believe he just temporarily stepped down from his position didn't he, Until court precedings are over. Is that where Renee's autopsy was done?:confused:

[spudrod]

You are probably thinking about Sheriff/Coroner Michael S Carona who was indicted on corruption charges and kickbacks along with his wife and mistress (an attorney no less). I'm not sure how he gets the designation Sheriif and Coroner, I'm sure he oversees both capacities, although his underlings do the actual coroner work.

[spudrod]

To me....the writing on the postcards looks like writing from an older male. I also wondered about the dates of the postmarks, both mailed in the same place. It almost seems like someone mailed them leaving from and arriving into Inyo county. The 2nd one seemed done hastily, no altering of the postcard, just the phrase referring to Inyo. Almost like it was an afterthought. I really think Renee was taken somewhere, it would explain why she wasn't found initially. But it would be very brass to take her back to the area in which she was missing, although if it was foul play, maybe the thrill was too much to pass up. I still can't get over how she couldn't have been seen within a day or 2 especially that close to a ranger station. Really its only 6-8 minutes away. Not to knock on the people there, but they do know the lay of the land, and it what they do for a living. Still wonder about the Arizona refernces....could that have been a destination? Did that prompt a statement that Renee could be anywhere in the Western US?

[LetsBeConcerned]

:shrug: Isn't the Orange County Coroner on trial for something right now? I believe he just temporarily stepped down from his position didn't he, Until court precedings are over. Is that where Renee's autopsy was done?:confused:

That is where Renee's autopsy was done~!! After reading the quote below I couldn't bear to read the rest~!!!:eek:

The Orange County Coroner, Michael S. Carona has been indicted on corruption charges.
http://losangeles.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel07/la103007usa.htm

http://www.lagunajournal.com/orange_county_sheriff_and_high_r.htm
“I write to each of you because I have nowhere to turn and I hope you can help me,” Hill wrote. “Mike Carona is an extremely dangerous man who hides his wickedness behind his badge . . .. I am not the only woman who has been victimized by this perverse individual. There are many others, including employees and wives and girlfriends of employees . . .. I know that as Carona continues to be exposed and the public sees him for what he truly is, he will go to any length to have me and other members of my family silenced.” “What else can I do?” she asked. “These people have already kicked down my door [to execute a search warrant], arrested me, and they won’t stop smearing me. It’s sick. I’m a victim here, but I’m going to defend myself.”

list OC
http://www.ocregister.com/section/sheriff-mike-carona-1917053/

http://www.ocregister.com/news/carona-indictment-sheriff-1912444-jaramillo-haidl

http://www.ocsd.org/coroners/default.asp

[Bluefox]

What an evil, evil man. Everything's coming out with the wash now! Not only is he corrupt, he's a sexual predator. It just shows how one person can influence others, draw them in, and it soon becomes a group, giving ordinary people no chance to fight back. You'd think it would be simple enough for people to report what's going on, but if nobody listens?!

I'm not sure what's going to happen next, as regards to unsolved crimes in his area, but is there any chance that bodies may be exhumed and new autopsies done?

[FDInLaw]

That is where Renee's autopsy was done~!! After reading the quote below I couldn't bear to read the rest~!!!:eek:

The Orange County Coroner, Michael S. Carona has been indicted on corruption charges.
http://losangeles.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pressrel07/la103007usa.htm

http://www.lagunajournal.com/orange_county_sheriff_and_high_r.htm
“I write to each of you because I have nowhere to turn and I hope you can help me,” Hill wrote. “Mike Carona is an extremely dangerous man who hides his wickedness behind his badge . . .. I am not the only woman who has been victimized by this perverse individual. There are many others, including employees and wives and girlfriends of employees . . .. I know that as Carona continues to be exposed and the public sees him for what he truly is, he will go to any length to have me and other members of my family silenced.” “What else can I do?” she asked. “These people have already kicked down my door [to execute a search warrant], arrested me, and they won’t stop smearing me. It’s sick. I’m a victim here, but I’m going to defend myself.”

list OC
http://www.ocregister.com/section/sheriff-mike-carona-1917053/

http://www.ocregister.com/news/carona-indictment-sheriff-1912444-jaramillo-haidl

http://www.ocsd.org/coroners/default.asp

What an evil, evil man. Everything's coming out with the wash now! Not only is he corrupt, he's a sexual predator. It just shows how one person can influence others, draw them in, and it soon becomes a group, giving ordinary people no chance to fight back. You'd think it would be simple enough for people to report what's going on, but if nobody listens?!

I'm not sure what's going to happen next, as regards to unsolved crimes in his area, but is there any chance that bodies may be exhumed and new autopsies done?
Suprise, suprise! Errrrrrr this is just sick! :flamemad:

[Wichita]

Let me see if I can relieve your fears a little. The Sheriff is in deep trouble, and rightfully so. The corruption I read in the DOJ press release indicates that his corruption was not traced to the rank and file, career officers, which in my mind would include the professional medical staff in the Coroner's division. My instincts tell me that if Carona and his cronies were involved in tampering with autopsy results, etc, it would have become apparent during the investigation by the FBI, IRS, and others working to clean house. So, I don't believe there is any attempt by the Doctor who performed Renee's autopsy to skew the results. I do think that the decision could have been influenced absent any prima facie evidence of foul play such as a cut throat, a bullet wound, etc. Since Inyo county officers were present during the autopsy, and since the Dr. who conducted it may not be personally acquainted with those officers, he might believe them to be totally honest. If they told him Renee had a drug problem, and that they found evidence of it at the scene, then he could have taken less interest absent any evidence indicating foul play. This is institutional corruption, but not for personal gain. It the "path of least resistance" ie. laziness. The end result is the same, but it probably was not a "cover up" in the conspiracy sense of the word. Either way, if the autopsy did not include a dissection of her neck to inspect the hyoid bone, there is no way to rule out strangulation. He may not have done so if he was told that she was "doing meth." But, it has nothing to do with Carona being a criminal who deserves to do hard time.

I am angry at Carona's corruption, because it truly does reflect on all law enforcement, but all of law enforcement is not corrupt. I am, however, beginning to wonder about California. Between Inyo County's incompetence, and Orange County's outright corruption, one wonders just how to win back the public trust....it's not easy, but it is doable, one case at a time.

[spudrod]

I didnt get much time to go through all of this, but if this womans story is true...........wow......some of her web page is somewhat graphic


http://everett-hurst.memory-of.com/

[LetsBeConcerned]

Let me see if I can relieve your fears a little. The Sheriff is in deep trouble, and rightfully so. The corruption I read in the DOJ press release indicates that his corruption was not traced to the rank and file, career officers, which in my mind would include the professional medical staff in the Coroner's division. My instincts tell me that if Carona and his cronies were involved in tampering with autopsy results, etc, it would have become apparent during the investigation by the FBI, IRS, and others working to clean house. So, I don't believe there is any attempt by the Doctor who performed Renee's autopsy to skew the results. I do think that the decision could have been influenced absent any prima facie evidence of foul play such as a cut throat, a bullet wound, etc. Since Inyo county officers were present during the autopsy, and since the Dr. who conducted it may not be personally acquainted with those officers, he might believe them to be totally honest. If they told him Renee had a drug problem, and that they found evidence of it at the scene, then he could have taken less interest absent any evidence indicating foul play. This is institutional corruption, but not for personal gain. It the "path of least resistance" ie. laziness. The end result is the same, but it probably was not a "cover up" in the conspiracy sense of the word. Either way, if the autopsy did not include a dissection of her neck to inspect the hyoid bone, there is no way to rule out strangulation. He may not have done so if he was told that she was "doing meth." But, it has nothing to do with Carona being a criminal who deserves to do hard time.

I am angry at Carona's corruption, because it truly does reflect on all law enforcement, but all of law enforcement is not corrupt. I am, however, beginning to wonder about California. Between Inyo County's incompetence, and Orange County's outright corruption, one wonders just how to win back the public trust....it's not easy, but it is doable, one case at a time.




I first want to say I respect your opinion and welcome to the board . :seeya:

I also want to add, that all autopsies required by Inyo are done in Orange County~!!!
Per contract... at the same time they just say the autopsy was done at a (this goes for many deaths)...
"Southern California facility"… what are they trying to hide or are they just
trying to confuse the public, as to where it is done~?

It has been my personal observation that the more questionable the death,
the more likely it is referred to as a "Southern California Facility”

If the death seems simpler, Inyo authorities are more apt to say, Orange County.

The largest town in Inyo is Bishop, with a (I think~?) population of 3,500.

It does not seem to me that Inyo has very many detectives, so the same
ones are accompanying each body.

So I do NOT believe that the detectives and the doctors ever met,… it is only a question how much one can influence another~!!!

[Wichita]

I totally agree that you should be skeptical, and guarded in anything you do. I know that your interaction with these guys has been a great deal more than mine. I'm not trying to talk you out of your belief. I think the girl who was found stabbed was autopsied in San Diego, is that Orange County? I haven't looked. There is no doubt that the Sheriff is a crook, and as such there's no way to know how far the corruption ran throughout the entire organization. Since the FBI et al was pretty convinced that the corruption was at the top, and not in the rank and file, I had hoped it would give you some sense of comfort that the Coroner would not be involved. However, the Inyo deputies were there, and as I said earlier, could have influenced the pathologist. That is where I have my reservations. Not because I think the Dr. is crooked, but just because I don't know how much he would listen to what the deputies "think" happened.

[LetsBeConcerned]

I totally agree that you should be skeptical, and guarded in anything you do. I know that your interaction with these guys has been a great deal more than mine. I'm not trying to talk you out of your belief. I think the girl who was found stabbed was autopsied in San Diego, is that Orange County? I haven't looked. There is no doubt that the Sheriff is a crook, and as such there's no way to know how far the corruption ran throughout the entire organization. Since the FBI et al was pretty convinced that the corruption was at the top, and not in the rank and file, I had hoped it would give you some sense of comfort that the Coroner would not be involved. However, the Inyo deputies were there, and as I said earlier, could have influenced the pathologist. That is where I have my reservations. Not because I think the Dr. is crooked, but just because I don't know how much he would listen to what the deputies "think" happened.


I do understand that all these Counties can be very confusing, especially if you don't live in the area.

Orange & San Deigo ARE 2 seprate counties.... Both on the west coast just below Los Angeles...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_counties_in_California

I really don't know what is going on either:shrug:

Shaleen's body(stabbed with a knife found nearby & then later, (same week) the postcards were sent) ... Shaleen was found before Renee...
Yet STILL have not ruled it a homicide~!!!

The question is not why have they not solved the crime...

The question is WHY HAVE THEY NOT CALLED IT A CRIME~!!!

It has been over a year~!!!!!!!!!!!!

They keep claiming "test results"... Wouldn't the visual tell you it is a crime scene~??????

[Bluefox]

Yes i hated to mention exhumations and the like, but the conspiracy going on there, does lead me to think along the lines of 'on every level' I'm also thinking of the Harold Shipman case, where, once his crimes came to light, exhumations had to be done, and only then did they realise the enormity of his crimes!

LetsBeConcerned, it is very worrying in Shaleen's case, there are many, many who commit suicide, how many do so by knife? and certainly no need to go out into the desert to do so. As nothing is really being published, how can anyone even start getting justice for her also.

[awakening2lite]

The postcard phone number:

ref: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:Xtq6teY9PJAJ:fire.r9.fws.gov/ifcc/esr/Media/Arizona%2520News%2520Media%2520Contacts.doc+520-457-3008&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Tombstone Tumbleweed 520/457-3008 Weekly: Thursday

312 Toughnut FAX: Deadline: Monday noon

Tombstone, AZ 85638 520/457-2378 Editors: Mr. & Mrs. Politi

tombstonenews@ssec.com Chris Simcox

[spudrod]

Reposted from Topix:

Throwing out some questions and thoughts........

On CL someone said that Inyo county was contracted with OC to do the autopsies. That being the case, how did Shaleen end up in San Diego?

Problem with a coruption scandel, is, just how far reaching is it? As discussed on CL, it may not reach into the coroner's office, but, until things get to trial it would be difficult to find names associated with this investigation. It certainly looks to be centered upon 3 individuals higher up the ladder. Although, with an investigation into kickbacks, there will be undoubtely be other people involved and named along the way. To what extent this evloves remains to be seen.

Both counties, OC and Inyo seem to be of the "good ole boy network", although I'm sure there are many officials and officers who are unaware of the scandel and are just as disgusted as the public is about the whole thing. But it makes me wonder with many of these people being investigated well into their careers, I wonder if some of these people crossed paths earlier on years ago as they embarked into their career? Would that lead to contracts for services rendered from county to county? Kern county is a lot closer to Inyo than is OC or San Diego. Or does OC have better personel than other counties? I've often wondered about some of the arrangements that government officals make and who has had the "inside track" to contracts and such.

From what I understand, exhumation is a lot more difficult to achive, especially with respecting privacy of families. And it seems like exhuming a body to prove it had been mis-diagnosed would be a legal nightmare even with a families permission. Most definitely an expensive procedure involving a private pathologist. Although, I for one, think Renee's case is one that should be done.

[Inyo Native]

Reposted from Topix:

Throwing out some questions and thoughts........

On CL someone said that Inyo county was contracted with OC to do the autopsies. That being the case, how did Shaleen end up in San Diego?

I think that Shaleen's case is a federal investigation since it happened on the reservation, and the FBI uses a different lab.


Problem with a coruption scandel, is, just how far reaching is it? As discussed on CL, it may not reach into the coroner's office, but, until things get to trial it would be difficult to find names associated with this investigation. It certainly looks to be centered upon 3 individuals higher up the ladder. Although, with an investigation into kickbacks, there will be undoubtely be other people involved and named along the way. To what extent this evloves remains to be seen.

Both counties, OC and Inyo seem to be of the "good ole boy network", although I'm sure there are many officials and officers who are unaware of the scandel and are just as disgusted as the public is about the whole thing. But it makes me wonder with many of these people being investigated well into their careers, I wonder if some of these people crossed paths earlier on years ago as they embarked into their career? Would that lead to contracts for services rendered from county to county? Kern county is a lot closer to Inyo than is OC or San Diego. Or does OC have better personel than other counties? I've often wondered about some of the arrangements that government officals make and who has had the "inside track" to contracts and such.

From what I understand, exhumation is a lot more difficult to achive, especially with respecting privacy of families. And it seems like exhuming a body to prove it had been mis-diagnosed would be a legal nightmare even with a families permission. Most definitely an expensive procedure involving a private pathologist. Although, I for one, think Renee's case is one that should be done.

I also believe it should be done in Deborah Dorame's case- but that is just because I find it rather odd, the way the police advertised that it was "suspicious" and then we heard nothing else. She was the ex-wife of a cop, so that was interesting.

As for the good 'ol boy network and its reach, Inyo County's is fairly strong. Many well-to-do, influential people have vacation homes in the area, or pass through on their way to the ski resort. I have lived in several states and I have always been surprised at how many people I met who either lived in Inyo County (temporarily) or vacationed nearby.

In the Joshua Loy case, the visiting judge (local ones had to recuse themselves) had a daughter who worked at the school where the alleged attacks happened. He disclosed this information to Loy's attorney prior to the trial and appeared to be careful in his decisions during the pretrial motions. Then something seemed to change during the second week, and those involved in Loy's defense found that highly suspicious- and I'm not just talking about lay persons familiar with his case, but attorneys who reviewed it. It was very odd, the way he acted the second week in comparison with the first week. He reneged on earlier decisions and constantly sustained the prosecutors questionable objections- Loy's attorney could barely elicit any testimony from his defense witnesses because of this.

I remember thinking, this is crazy... how did they get to him? (the judge) You would think he would be careful do to his potential conflict of interest. Don't underestimate the power of the good 'ol boys.

[curiousfriend]

Im stuck on the information that wichita has provided- I never knew or thought that the deputies would be in the room while the autopsy was being performed! Why would that be allowed? :shrug: I agree with what wichita said being if the deputies were basically watching the medical examiners every move (#1 making him uncomfortable, I would imagine, #2 being influenced by their "insight" on the person, #3 its very hard to do a job thoroughly and correctly with other people putting in their "opinion"). Not saying anything in any way but it seems to me that Wichita has a decent amount of knowledge on the autopsy procedure and what areas should be looked at more carefully in a situation like Renee's, mentioning the fact that they probably didn't look to closely at the possibility of strangulation or anything like that, due the fact that the LE was using Renee's past drug problem as their alibi for her death and escape for their wrong doings, relieving them from any form of responsibility in her regards. I know that Renee had a rough year that seemed to me was finally nearing the end, from what I can recall Renee was actually going up there and other areas that weekend to look for houses for her Son and her to move too. To get away from the BS that was driving her mentally insane down here! Trying to get off on the right foot and make a better life for the two of them. Unfortunately that will never happen now. Reason for her going alone, I would assume would be for the simple fact that she wanted to get away from the small town Simi Drama (if you live in Simi you know exactly what I'm talking about) and didn't want anyone to know where she was considering for places to live! That makes sense to me- If Renee had the same sense of direction as I do - I'm not sure I would have made it as far as she did! Which leads me to my next concern -- I heard on the News this morning that there was another Orange county Deputy or along those lines arrested and pled guilty to picking up broken down or lost women and offering them a ride to then take them to an unfamiliar place and sexually assault them.:eek: :confused: The plot thickens daily and the questions grow more and more by the minute with alot of theories but no actual answers or any factual information other that the fact that Renee is no longer with us. :rose:

[curiousfriend]

Has anyone googled that guys name? You wont find many positive articles relating to him!

Chris Simcox: The Tombstone Vigilante's Troubled Life in Los Angeles
Chris Simcox of the racist Tombstone Militia Los Angeles, Alta California - December 10, 2002 - (ACN) Chris Simcox, the vigilante who recently called for an


SPLCenter.org: Minuteman Leader has Troubled PastWith his guns close at hand and visions of mushroom clouds blossoming darkly in his mind's eye, Chris Simcox punched the record button on the answering ...
:eek: :rose:

[curiousfriend]

USATODAY.com - Minuteman's goal: To shame feds into actionChris Simcox,

[Bluefox]

quote: Curiousfriend........I heard on the News this morning that there was another Orange county Deputy or along those lines arrested and pled guilty to picking up broken down or lost women and offering them a ride to then take them to an unfamiliar place and sexually assault them.

Do you know this deputies name? or are there any articles about it?

[spudrod]

Deputy allegedly photographed naked prostitutes

21-year veteran accused of picking up Harbor Boulevard prostitutes while on duty in patrol car.

By KIMBERLY EDDS
The Orange County Register
Comments 63 (http://www.ocregister.com/news/rodriguez-department-amormino-1923766-sheriff-women#slComments)| Recommend (javascript:recommendReview('OCRArticle1923766'))3 7
SANTA ANA - A seasoned Orange County sheriff’s deputy was arrested Thursday, accused of using his badge to force at least a dozen Harbor Boulevard prostitutes into his patrol car, fondling them and snapping naked pictures of the them in provocative poses. At least three women were handcuffed, authorities said.

Deputy Richard Rodriguez, 43, of Chino was taken into custody Thursday at sheriff’s headquarters when he went to meet with internal affairs investigators about the accusations, said department spokesman Jim Amormino.

Prosecutors charged Rodriguez, a 21-year department veteran, with five felony counts of false imprisonment, three misdemeanor counts of sexual battery and one misdemeanor count of engaging in acts of prostitution.

Rodriguez has been on administrative leave since March, when he became the subject of an investigation. Sheriff Mike Carona in March confirmed the department was looking into sex-abuse accusations against a deputy but withheld his name, saying the identity was protected by the Peace Officers’ Bill of Rights.

The arrest is the end of a long internal investigation into Rodriguez’s habits as he patrolled Harbor Boulevard as a deputy assigned to the Orange County Transportation Authority, which contracts with the Sheriff’s Department, Amormino said.

In uniform and on duty, Rodriguez patrolled Harbor Boulevard in a marked patrol car, picking up women working the streets over a 15-month period starting in November 2005, according to sheriff’s investigators. Rodriguez told the women he needed to “run” them in the system to confirm their identities, Amormino said, and put them in his patrol car.

But instead of running checks on the women, he drove them to a secluded Garden Grove industrial area, where he groped some of them, ordered others to strip and photographed others while they were naked and in suggestive poses, Amormino said. Rodriguez handcuffed at least three of the women, he added.

“These charges are disturbing and disgusting,” Amormino said. “It’s a shame when someone violates a position of trust.”

The accusations surfaced after one of the prostitutes told another deputy Rodriguez assaulted her, Amormino said.

Images of nude prostitutes in the back of Rodriguez’ patrol car were found in the deputy’s computer, and cameras were seized from the deputy’s home and department locker.

Investigators spent months and crisscrossed the country to track down the women whose pictures were found stuffed among Rodriguez’ sheriff’s gear.

He was arrested Thursday afternoon and booked in the same Orange County jail to which he used to send his own arrestees.

Because of concerns over his safety, he was being held in a private cell under 24-hour surveillance at the Orange County jail. His bail was set at $500,000 and he was expected to be arraigned Monday.

Anyone with information about the accusations may call the Sheriff’s Department's Sex Crimes Unit at 714-647-7419.

[Wichita]

It is not unusual for cops to be present during an autopsy, especially in questionable death cases. In small towns, suspicious death investigations are usually not common. A decent chief or sheriff would want the officers to learn as much as possible about each case, to be able to apply knowledge to the next one.

In Renee's case, since her remains were in advanced decomposition, it would be very difficult to find any evidence of wounds, especially if there had been a problem with animals, which thankfully, was not the case with Renee. For example, if she had been stabbed to death, one might not be able to see knife wounds, or even gun shot wounds. Therefore, any tear, or break in the skin that should not be there normally, would be surgically examined. If there was bone, such as ribs in the case of a stab wound, the ribs would need to be examined for damage by the knife. Since Renee had no obvious wounds, it sounds like her body was examined for obvious wounds. Finding none, enough blood was found to conduct a toxicology examination.

However, since the cops were there, they would be asked questions by a competent forensic pathologist: "Why do you think she was nude? How do you suppose her arms came to rest across her body? Did you find any weapons near the scene? When was the last time she was seen alive?" He would be seeking clues to the possible cause of death, such as homicide, suicide, etc. It is just a damn same that no one knows whether she was examined for evidence of strangulation. I would think a forensic pathologist would conduct such an inquiry notwithstanding the opinions of the deputies, if their opinions were expressed.

Since Inyo County is obviously handles their cases differently that just about any other agency I have ever heard of, it would not surprise me if the deputies contoured their answers to the pathologist in a way that would support their own motives. This is just speculation on my part, but it is a possibility.

I went to the OC Coroner's web site, and made a request on line for the Doctors written report. The form released by the Inyo Coroner was a checklist, which is only part of the report. The doctor, during the autopsy, is constantly describing what he is doing, and what he finds. It is recorded, and transcribed into a written report. That is the report I want to see. Any questions he asked the deputies, and other comments during the autopsy, should be on that report. I have no idea if this is the way it is done in OC, but that is a standard procedure for most professional offices.

Whether anyone will be able to get that part of the report without a court order remains to be seen. There is no doubt in my mind that there are many written reports that will not be released from any of the agencies involved without a court order. So much for "public information". It seems like Inyo County's idea of what constitutes public information is different that the rest of the USA. It's going to take a court order to get those reports.

Whomever petitions the court should ask for the case notes as well. Those are notes jotted down by officers during the investigation, and should be part of the case file.....if the office is anywhere near professional.