DISCUSSION THREAD WEEK OF 8/14

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by Watership Down



It's in the FBI 302's attached to Joe T's filing.

302's - 3 0 schmoos.

Please provide a link

[dinojen]

Originally posted by feelings

the point is you know nothing about this judge. You know nothing about his attitude or whether not discriminating people based on their heritage, profession or whatever is relevant for him. He is a white sheet of paper so you can go ahead and idealize him.



What a weird.. didn't want to say nasty post...

I don't think .. and this is jmo... that anyone is in your word "idealize" anyone or any judge..

He made his decision.. and that's it.. they could I suppose file an appeal.. but obviously they didn't.. I don't know if Dutch law even allows that... but just like in the U.S. a judges decision is made.. and that's it.. I don't see that as idealizing anyone because you agree with his judgement..

Do you know this judge.. do you know anything about him...


Obviously you don't like his ruling.. I'm sure it's no sweat to him.. or anyone else in Aruba that you don't like it.. they most likely are pretty sick of American's trying to force our laws on everyone else.

If you don't want to take the chances traveling.. don't travel.. and don't send you 18 year olds where they can drink and gamble and act like adults.. and not be held responsible for their actions..

[No Nic]

Originally posted by dinojen




Mr. Croes obviously misspoke.. this has been discussed over and over ... it wasn't Natalee that Joran was gambling for.. but I'm too lazy to go through my discs to find the conversation from a year ago...

Boss bought me new computer and I had to archive all my "off topic = non work" stuff... sorry... will see if I can find it though.

Mr. Croes is allowed to misspeak :eek: . Who else BESIDES Beth is allowed to misspeak?? Let's see, we have JK2, APVDS, Dompig, KJ, Arlene S, Van der Straaten, all the "spokespersons", Minister of Justice (Gawwwd, can't forget that misspeak), JoeT.... who have I missed that is allowed to misspeak in this case . :rolleyes:

imo

eta: the NOT Beth didn't come out quite right, even tho you know what I mean, go ahead a give me your best "shots. lol

[paralegallin]

Originally posted by julianella


Well if she was sold into sex slavery, then she was kidnapped and raped.... and by know could have been murdered!

I have seen absolutely NO evidence that a 18 year old drunk girl in flip flops a mini skirt and tank could walk on water to escape a life of Love, support, and life!

WHere and when did the drunk vacationer plan this great escape? How would the drunk girl carry it out?

Why would the suspects CONTINUE to lie AFTER they were already found out? after the original lie why did the lies continue to come out? Hmmm Couldn't be embarresment cause everyone knew he left her in the beach, can't be fear cause he snuck out cause everyone already knew that, what was his excuse for that one?

imo

Perhaps it was planned in advance, perhaps she drank to get her courage up to go through with said plan. Who said she had to walk on water to escape anything? Many ways of getting off Aruba without being seen I would think.

Until there is solid proof that anyone did anything to harm her, I simply cannot say that J2K or anyone else is guilty.

MOO

[dinojen]

Originally posted by No Nic


Mr. Croes is allowed to misspeak :eek: . Who else BESIDES Beth is allowed to misspeak?? Let's see, we have JK2, APVDS, Dompig, KJ, Arlene S, Van der Straaten, all the "spokespersons", Minister of Justice (Gawwwd, can't forget that misspeak), JoeT.... who have I missed that is allowed to misspeak in this case . :rolleyes:

imo

eta: the NOT Beth didn't come out quite right, even tho you know what I mean, go ahead a give me your best "shots. lol



I was being polite by saying he mispoke... obviously he didn't know jack diddly.. as someone else posted... even the MB "children" in their statements in the civil suit.. stated who Joran was gambling for...

Beth can misspeak all she wants.. because I stopped listening to what she had to say months ago... JMHO...

I will definately listen to someone though that has actual proof and true facts.. now that would be interesting.. but I'm tired of listening to journal readings and private thoughts.. to me that isn't evidence or proof.... it's called speculation

[No Nic]

Originally posted by dinojen




I was being polite by saying he mispoke... obviously he didn't know jack diddly.. as someone else posted... even the MB "children" in their statements in the civil suit.. stated who Joran was gambling for...

Beth can misspeak all she wants.. because I stopped listening to what she had to say months ago... JMHO...

I will definately listen to someone though that has actual proof and true facts.. now that would be interesting.. but I'm tired of listening to journal readings and private thoughts.. to me that isn't evidence or proof.... it's called speculation

Just curious, where are you going to find someone "that has actual proof and true facts" ??

[mrman]

With the possibility that Jon Benet Ramsey's case MAY be solved, I shall wait 10 years for Natalee's to be solved. And I will withdraw all my suspicions.

[No Nic]

Originally posted by T.O Jays


No doubt. She'll probably find some way to pin it on Joran:tongue: IMO. I'm so glad we've at least seen some Justice in this case by Beth being exposed. jmo

LOL, she has only been "exposed" according to some message board posters, not the real world. The welcoming acceptance of her speeches by the Sheriff's Assoc. and in the academic world prove you incorrect.

imo

[dinojen]

Originally posted by No Nic


Just curious, where are you going to find someone "that has actual proof and true facts" ??

Got me.. I don't think anyone in this case has the actual TRUE facts.. that's part of the problem....

Everyone has their own opinion.. Beth has hers, Dave has his, the media has been all over the place with thoughts.. and then lets toss in the experts, Skeeter, Artsie Wood.. and the other joker PI...

Out of all these people..and even Joran and the Kalpoe's.. the ALE... I'm not excluding them...

No one not one single person knows exactly what happened that night...:shrug:

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


302's - 3 0 schmoos.

Please provide a link

Funny...........Schmunny! :biggrin:

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Funny...........Schmunny! :biggrin:

Joe T Joe Schmee. :D

What is this constant reference to the 302's? Why not direct us there? Or are some people working with the legal team? lol. They sure spend enough time here. I hope they're getting paid for it.



moo

[dinojen]

Originally posted by T.O Jays




I doubt that guy killed Jon Benet. Seems like a nut but not the killer. IMO. I think the cops might try and make it fit though because there seems to be a pressing need for closure very similar to this case in that regard. You just hope he is the actual killer because if he's not than a killer got away with it. This is what makes things such as physical evidence so important. IMO



Guy does seem like a real fruitcake.. but why would anyone want to admit to a crime so horrible... maybe because he was in trouble in over there and didn't want to spend time in their jails..

But something really doesn't fit in his confession... wonder if any of the DNA will match...

It's more than they have in Natalee's case which is nothing..

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by feelings

it´s pretty weird that you would trust a judge from a distant island more than a fellow American. Maybe it´s just convenient. Or so easy. You can just take his word for it because he is a judge. You don´t have to think and decide for yourself. You know what I believe? How come?

OK .... Now I'm lost ....

Since when is what is RIGHT determined by which country one is from?? What does Beth being a "fellow American" have to do with ANYTHING??

JMO

[fairmaiden]

O/T .... I see we have one of those ads again on the right hand side of the screen, which is driving me crazy by JUMPING across the page .... lol

JMO JMO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by feelings

it´s pretty weird that you would trust a judge from a distant island more than a fellow American. Maybe it´s just convenient. Or so easy. You can just take his word for it because he is a judge. You don´t have to think and decide for yourself. You know what I believe? How come?

You know, the more I READ this post .... how PRESUMPTUOUS of you. I know your OP wasn't directed at me, but I certainly AM perfectly capable of "thinking and deciding for myself". Does the fact someone has a DIFFERENT opinion than you do make you arrive at that conclusion about someone??

JMO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by fairmaiden
O/T .... I see we have one of those ads again on the right hand side of the screen, which is driving me crazy by JUMPING across the page .... lol

JMO JMO

LOL, the other night it was Parco PI (or whoever he is), he was constantly tapping his nose and then pointing at me....very scary, imo)

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


302's - 3 0 schmoos.

Please provide a link


Do a search of the archived board. The link was provided many times.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic
<snip>
Strange that we have never heard anyone but message boarders DENY that that is was Paulus in the casino video. Hmmmmmmmm I wonder why?

imo Thanks, very interesting.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


Example: Beth never denied a picture of the jello shot, therefore it must be true.

Comparison: Paulus never denied being in the casino video, therefore it must be true.

IMO Beth said she had seen the pictures.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


Char les Croes said that Joran said he won the money back for Natalee.

Are you saying Croes lied? Or did Joran lie to Croes?

This is 0ne lie you can't put on Beth. :D

moo I don't think Joran knew all the women by name.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by dinojen




I thought she went back for some family celebration.. and it's quite possible that the younger ones school was already out.. I believe Anita also teaches younger children...

And what would the VDS going on vacation to Holland prior to Natalee's going missing have to do with anything anyway... If it was a family celebration it might explain where Joran got some money that people were concerned about.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by dinojen




Mr. Croes obviously misspoke.. this has been discussed over and over ... it wasn't Natalee that Joran was gambling for.. but I'm too lazy to go through my discs to find the conversation from a year ago...

Boss bought me new computer and I had to archive all my "off topic = non work" stuff... sorry... will see if I can find it though. You are right.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by paralegallin


IIRC from the days when I graduated HS..money started coming in for me right after my dday which is the end of March, so I cannot honestly say he had not received money from friends of the family or family members themselves before the end of May.

We don't know, moo He might have scored big time at the family celebration in Holland. Graduation plus birthday 18!

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by mrman
With the possibility that Jon Benet Ramsey's case MAY be solved, I shall wait 10 years for Natalee's to be solved. And I will withdraw all my suspicions. I'll drink to that!

MOO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Beth said she had seen the pictures.

MOO

That's not the way I have heard it. All I heard here was "Beth didn't deny seeing the picture", so it must be true. :shrug:


imo

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
I'll drink to that!

MOO

:eek: i thought you were on the wagon.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by No Nic


LOL, the other night it was Parco PI (or whoever he is), he was constantly tapping his nose and then pointing at me....very scary, imo)

O/T .... LOL No Nic .... I DID notice him, but he wasn't jumping out on my page .... lol

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
If it was a family celebration it might explain where Joran got some money that people were concerned about.

MOO

He didn't go. His mother did.



moo

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


Joe T Joe Schmee. :D

What is this constant reference to the 302's? Why not direct us there? Or are some people working with the legal team? lol. They sure spend enough time here. I hope they're getting paid for it.



moo Hate site.

MOO

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Hate site.

MOO


The site I have bookmarked has the filing with the unredacted statements so I won't post that link but like I said earlier the link was posted many times and she can find it on the archived board.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


:eek: i thought you were on the wagon. Ut oh!

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


He didn't go. His mother did.



moo Maybe she brought back presents?

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


302's - 3 0 schmoos.

Please provide a link


http://www.xs4all.nl/~dugo/doc3.pdf

Be sure to book mark it ;)

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


LOL, she has only been "exposed" according to some message board posters, not the real world. The welcoming acceptance of her speeches by the Sheriff's Assoc. and in the academic world prove you incorrect.

imo LMAO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


First of all please post a link.

Second of all C Croes said that Joran said it was Natalee. Who lied? Croes or Van Der Sloot? Or you?



moo Did you read any of the civil suit fililngs?

Who said anyone lied? Joran thought Ruth was Natalee. Joran was attracted to Kathleen and only learned her name later. It was Ruth he won the money back for NOT Natalee.

Why should Joran be expected to remember the names of all the MB children?

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


He didn't go. His mother did.



moo You sure he didn't go?

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by nascarmom
You sure he didn't go? Mom, dad and 2 boys went.

MOO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic

Strange that we have never heard anyone but message boarders DENY that that is was Paulus in the casino video. Hmmmmmmmm I wonder why?

imo
Even stranger is that none of the MB children at the Casino said it was Paulus.

And even stranger still is that it's not mentioned in the civil suit filing.

Paulus' statement posted at BFN has him leaving at 18:30 after turning his place in the tourney over to Joran, and then picking up Joran at 23:00.

The 'mystery' pictures have a man leaving in a light colored car, Paulus drove the red Suzuki.

And nothing from Guido about Paulus 'meeting' Natalee at the tournament.

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by nascarmom



http://www.xs4all.nl/~dugo/doc3.pdf

Be sure to book mark it ;)

Well thank you. :D

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


Well thank you. :D You're welcome.

[No Nic]

Does this make anyone else sick? It sure does me.

July 12, 2005

PAUL REYNOLDS, UNCLE OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: i know that my sister had a meeting with the FBI June 10, Friday. And from that meeting, she became convinced that Natalee was no longer alive. She called her mother and told her that. And our family was—was—began the grieving process.

You know, we were told the report would come out the next day. Later that night, we saw the reports that confessions had been made, that something bad had happened. Shortly thereafter, it was retracted. The next morning, there was a report that said Natalee was confirmed dead. And these reports came from the deputy commissioner. They came from the spokesperson from the Ministry of Justice.

And then, all of a sudden, these statements and these confessions just disappeared.

SCARBOROUGH: And wait a second. I mean, these confessions were so rock solid that you actually had the FBI coming to you, coming to your family, Natalee's family, saying, we are sorry to tell you this, but there has been a confession. One of these boys has confessed, and Natalee is no longer alive.

How do you pull something like that back off the table? Have you had or has your sister had or has anybody in the family had any explanation from Aruban officials whatever happened to this confession, where they buried it?

REYNOLDS: I am not aware of any follow-up information. You know, this seemed to disappear from sight, these confessions did.

At the time, we thought that because the investigation is kept secret, we thought it was ongoing, and maybe they just didn't want to release it officially at that time. But, as we see that the appeals, the hearings are showing there's no evidence, but yet we have these confessions, it doesn't make any sense. It's as if they are being hidden or taken away.

SCARBOROUGH: You know, you said—talked about June the 10th. That's when you all were told that the confession had been made, and you said that the family actually started a grieving process. What did the family do?

REYNOLDS: You know, grieving is—it's a difficult process. We were all notified. We exchanged phone calls, making sure everyone in the family was notified. I even had to tell my children, very upsetting to them, very upsetting to all of us.

SCARBOROUGH: Wait, Paul. Are you telling me, back on June the 10th, you told your children, based on the confession of one of these—these punks that took Natalee away from the bar, that Natalee was dead? This was over a month ago. You had to break it to your family, the entire family, Natalee's entire family, because of the confessions, knew that she was dead, and yet here we are over a month later, and they are still claiming they don't have enough evidence to nail these guys?

REYNOLDS: That's absolutely correct.

You know, the FBI had informed my sister based on the initial interrogations that that was their belief. That information was given to our family. And it's just—it's a very difficult thing to go through. Grieving should only be a process you have to go through one time

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551822

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic
Does this make anyone else sick? It sure does me.

<snip>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551822 Doesn't Beth believe Natalee is alive?

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic
Does this make anyone else sick? It sure does me.




http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551822 If it pains you so to believe it then don't because it's hearsay, hogwash and not true.

Heck, not even Beth believed it.

June 16th:

HOLLOWAY: I believe that Natalee is still alive until God tells me otherwise because all I know right now is, the last time I saw my daughter, my daughter is alive, and I know she is here. And until God tells me otherwise, Greta, absolutely. I have all the hope and faith and belief that my daughter is alive.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159779,00.html

[No Nic]

Here is another sickening statement out of Aruba. Remember the lovely Arlene?

Dec. 20, 2005

COSBY: Now, you said that, OK, after that, they do intend for sure to bring back in the brothers and also Joran Van Der Sloot?

SCHIPPER: Absolutely. It‘s one of the—bring in for interrogation. It‘s one of their objectives. And they‘re working on an interrogation plan, but, you know, as our laws, our procedural laws differs a little bit, that influences the investigative methods that we can use here.

So they have to carefully go about it. And to zoom in, as we call it, back on these suspects, they need to carefully do that and strategically do that.

COSBY: What about some of the suspects‘ friends?

SCHIPPER: Absolutely. That is one of the current activities of the police and of the planned objectives of the police. We gave an expose to the congressman on the current and planned actions. And one of those actions are interviewing friends, interviewing witnesses, re-interviewing witnesses. It‘s all already happening and going on.

COSBY: Arlene, when could we see—as we were looking at a picture of Deepak, and Satish, and Joran a second ago—when could we see them called in again? How soon?

SCHIPPER: Well, that is something that I cannot comment on, because that is what we call tactical information, because, as I said, they need to carefully zoom in on them. They need to work on their plan of investigation, on interrogation, because, given the information that they‘ve get of the re-interviews of the witnesses (INAUDIBLE) students, as well as the friends, they‘re going to—they have to have to reestablish, for instance, the relationship between Joran, if there was a relationship between Joran and Natalee, how the events unfolded that night, et cetera, et cetera.

So based that, they will move in on a technical way how and when they will interrogate these boys again.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10548164/

My Gawd, look how that woman spun this for the media. Yak, yakity, yak and yak some more.........and all of it lies, none of it happened.

It is good to revisit these links, lest we forget what the Aruban officials and tourist industry has done to this family.

imo

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Doesn't Beth believe Natalee is alive?

No

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic

My Gawd, look how that woman spun this for the media. Yak, yakity, yak and yak some more.........and all of it lies, none of it happened.

It is good to revisit these links, lest we forget what the Aruban officials and tourist industry has done to this family.

imo Yeah, isn't it sickening how it's admitted that they are ZEROING in on J2K? :cuss: Can we say RAILROAD??? :cuss:



:flamemad:

[No Nic]

Originally posted by nascarmom
If it pains you so to believe it then don't because it's hearsay, hogwash and not true.

Heck, not even Beth believed it.

June 16th:

HOLLOWAY: I believe that Natalee is still alive until God tells me otherwise because all I know right now is, the last time I saw my daughter, my daughter is alive, and I know she is here. And until God tells me otherwise, Greta, absolutely. I have all the hope and faith and belief that my daughter is alive.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159779,00.html

She believed it, that is just a desperate, distraught mother attempting to convince herself her child had not met her demise on vacation in "paradise". Denial is self preservation in horrific times and I am sure Beth felt every emotion possible and had every thought possible in the HE!! Aruba put her through.

IMO, MOO, JMO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


No

She did at least 6 days after being told there was a confession and a confirmed death. And then she did again on Dr Phil when she told us how she got a phonemail from Natalee.

Of course she has since crossed the line of decency and declared J2K 'took a life', but not back after the 'confession' and 'confirmed death'.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


She believed it, that is just a desperate, distraught mother attempting to convince herself her child had not met her demise on vacation in "paradise". Denial is self preservation in horrific times and I am sure Beth felt every emotion possible and had every thought possible in the HE!! Aruba put her through.

IMO, MOO, JMO Uh Huh. Sure.

[No Nic]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Yeah, isn't it sickening how it's admitted that they are ZEROING in on J2K? :cuss: Can we say RAILROAD??? :cuss:



:flamemad:

Why are you flaming mad ?? It DID NOT HAPPEN. It was all Aruba Arlene spin and twirl. There was NO railroading, only a verbal attempt to sway the American tourists that they had an actual plan.

WOW, you need to chill. lol

imo

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


No Yes.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


She believed it, that is just a desperate, distraught mother attempting to convince herself her child had not met her demise on vacation in "paradise". Denial is self preservation in horrific times and I am sure Beth felt every emotion possible and had every thought possible in the HE!! Aruba put her through.

IMO, MOO, JMO She believed it was Natalee on the phone.

MOO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
She believed it was Natalee on the phone.

MOO

Wishful, hopeful thinking, IMO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


Why are you flaming mad ?? It DID NOT HAPPEN. It was all Aruba Arlene spin and twirl. There was NO railroading, only a verbal attempt to sway the American tourists that they had an actual plan.

WOW, you need to chill. lol

imo

You better rush and tell the Twittys that !!!


Holloway's family believes she is alive, Tom Twitty said. Rumors that she is dead are "an aggressive interpretation" of what police are saying, he told The Associated Press

http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/050612/officials.shtml

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


Wishful, hopeful thinking, IMO Nothing wrong in that, having a hope that her daughter is alive. Perhaps Natalee will call one day.

MOO

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Nothing wrong in that, having a hope that her daughter is alive. Perhaps Natalee will call one day.

MOO

Only if they have cell phones in heaven. :rose:




moo

[Luke Davis]

The FBI knows that missing persons who are gone more than 48 hours are often killed in the first 2 hours. They will inform the parents of this. If the parents interpret that as their loved one is dead, that is being realistic but It doesn't mean it happens in every case.

MOO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


Why are you flaming mad ?? It DID NOT HAPPEN. It was all Aruba Arlene spin and twirl. There was NO railroading, only a verbal attempt to sway the American tourists that they had an actual plan.

WOW, you need to chill. lol

imo

LMAO

How come the Twitty's attorney didn't even know about until she heard it on the very show you linked to?


From you link:

SCARBOROUGH: But the FBI was the one—it was FBI agents were the ones that went to the Holloway family and said that she was dead, that one of the boys confessed. The FBI—I don't believe they would have made that up. Do you have any information on that?

DE SOUSA: No, because I just heard that on your program, that it was the FBI that went to the family and told them about this supposed confession.

I have had no confirmation, nor denial, again, if this is true or not, so I will, again, take a look at it. But from what I understood, there was no evident confession to that part.
==============

Now why would Beth withold a confession in the case from her own attorney?

[forensicpsy]

Actually, Julia Renfro told them first.



moo

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by No Nic


Why are you flaming mad ?? It DID NOT HAPPEN. It was all Aruba Arlene spin and twirl. There was NO railroading, only a verbal attempt to sway the American tourists that they had an actual plan.

WOW, you need to chill. lol

imo

Was this interview in response to the Dr. Phil show, before the accuracy of the tapes was called into question?

:confused:

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


Only if they have cell phones in heaven.



moo
You think Natalee will wait until her mom dies before trying to call her? :shrug:

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


Was this interview in response to the Dr. Phil show, before the accuracy of the tapes was called into question?

:confused: No, No. It's about Beth believing Natalee is alive and saying she got a voice mail from her when she was on the Dr Phil show.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
The FBI knows that missing persons who are gone more than 48 hours are often killed in the first 2 hours. They will inform the parents of this. If the parents interpret that as their loved one is dead, that is being realistic but It doesn't mean it happens in every case.

MOO


I wonder if No Nic even read the article she posted. The last paragraph discussed it being the FBI's "belief". The FBI believed Elizabeth Smart was dead too. Who knows how many other parents they have shared their "beliefs" with only to be proven wrong later on.


REYNOLDS: That's absolutely correct.

You know, the FBI had informed my sister based on the initial interrogations that that was their belief. That information was given to our family. And it's just—it's a very difficult thing to go through. Grieving should only be a process you have to go through one time

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551822

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by nascarmom

You think Natalee will wait until her mom dies before trying to call her? :shrug:

Do you want me to take your bait? :o Ok then.

No......because Natalee is in heaven.




moo

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Watership Down



I wonder if No Nic even read the article she posted. The last paragraph discussed it being the FBI's "belief". The FBI believed Elizabeth Smart was dead too. Who knows how many other parents they have shared their "beliefs" with only to be proven wrong later on.


REYNOLDS: That's absolutely correct.

You know, the FBI had informed my sister based on the initial interrogations that that was their belief. That information was given to our family. And it's just—it's a very difficult thing to go through. Grieving should only be a process you have to go through one time

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551822
And the Twittys evidently didn't believe it anyway

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


Do you want me to take your bait? :o Ok then.

No......because Natalee is in heaven.




moo
FACT: there is no evidence Natalee is dead or that crime was committed against her.

The truth is not bait and your opinion is not grounded in facts.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by nascarmom

And the Twittys evidently didn't believe it anyway


It sure doesn't look that way.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Watership Down



It sure doesn't look that way.

But we're supposed to because links are robo posted? :shrug:

[Luke Davis]

G. Ruffner Page home (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=3132+overhill+rd+35223&ie=UTF8&ll=33.479876,-86.765401&spn=0.003038,0.006679&t=k&om=1)

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by nascarmom


But we're supposed to because links are robo posted? :shrug:


Of course. If the media prints it it must be true. :tongue:

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by nascarmom

FACT: there is no evidence Natalee is dead or that crime was committed against her.

<SNIP>

If no crime was committed - why are you posting in the "Crime Library?" :shrug:

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
G. Ruffner Page home (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=3132+overhill+rd+35223&ie=UTF8&ll=33.479876,-86.765401&spn=0.003038,0.006679&t=k&om=1)

It's an empty lot :eek:

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


If no crime was committed - why are you posting in the "Crime Library?" :shrug:


So because the case was moved to Crime Library that means a crime was committed???


ROFLMAO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


If no crime was committed - why are you posting in the "Crime Library?" :shrug:
Because this is where the forum is. It USED to be at CTV and was moved here after being closed and the topic BANNED at CTV. :read:

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by Watership Down



So because the case was moved to Crime Library that means a crime was committed???


ROFLMAO

Which part don't you understand?

Crime or Library? :shrug:

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Watership Down



So because the case was moved to Crime Library that means a crime was committed???


ROFLMAO
Does that mean when the forum was at CTV it was just because it was on TV all the time :shrug:

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by nascarmom


It's an empty lot :eek: On my screen it looks huge. Better than the VDS residence.

MOO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


Which part don't you understand?

Crime or Library? :shrug: LMAO

Quick tell Freshwater that by putting the forum in the Crime Library section it means there was a crime.

LMAO

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by nascarmom

Does that mean when the forum was at CTV it was just because it was on TV all the time :shrug:


Must have been. :D

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by nascarmom

Does that mean when the forum was at CTV it was just because it was on TV all the time :shrug: I thought it was all CTV, I just follow where ever they put it.

MOO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
On my screen it looks huge. Better than the VDS residence.

MOO Bigger and Better!

How does it compare to GVC compound?

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Watership Down



I wonder if No Nic even read the article she posted. The last paragraph discussed it being the FBI's "belief". The FBI believed Elizabeth Smart was dead too. Who knows how many other parents they have shared their "beliefs" with only to be proven wrong later on.


REYNOLDS: That's absolutely correct.

You know, the FBI had informed my sister based on the initial interrogations that that was their belief. That information was given to our family. And it's just—it's a very difficult thing to go through. Grieving should only be a process you have to go through one time

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551822

He 1st had this to say.

" You know, we were told the report would come out the next day. Later that night, we saw the reports that confessions had been made, that something bad had happened. Shortly thereafter, it was retracted. The next morning, there was a report that said Natalee was confirmed dead. And these reports came from the deputy commissioner. They came from the spokesperson from the Ministry of Justice.

And then, all of a sudden, these statements and these confessions just disappeared.

SCARBOROUGH: And wait a second. I mean, these confessions were so rock solid that you actually had the FBI coming to you, coming to your family, Natalee's family, saying, we are sorry to tell you this, but there has been a confession. One of these boys has confessed, and Natalee is no longer alive.

How do you pull something like that back off the table? Have you had or has your sister had or has anybody in the family had any explanation from Aruban officials whatever happened to this confession, where they buried it?

REYNOLDS: I am not aware of any follow-up information. You know, this seemed to disappear from sight, these confessions did.

At the time, we thought that because the investigation is kept secret, we thought it was ongoing, and maybe they just didn't want to release it officially at that time. But, as we see that the appeals, the hearings are showing there's no evidence, but yet we have these confessions, it doesn't make any sense. It's as if they are being hidden or taken away.

SCARBOROUGH: You know, you said—talked about June the 10th. That's when you all were told that the confession had been made, and you said that the family actually started a grieving process. What did the family do?

REYNOLDS: You know, grieving is—it's a difficult process. We were all notified. We exchanged phone calls, making sure everyone in the family was notified. I even had to tell my children, very upsetting to them, very upsetting to all of us.

SCARBOROUGH: Wait, Paul. Are you telling me, back on June the 10th, you told your children, based on the confession of one of these—these punks that took Natalee away from the bar, that Natalee was dead? This was over a month ago. You had to break it to your family, the entire family, Natalee's entire family, because of the confessions, knew that she was dead, and yet here we are over a month later, and they are still claiming they don't have enough evidence to nail these guys? "

Did YOU read the link and pick out ONLY the part that would best fit your agenda ?

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


If no crime was committed - why are you posting in the "Crime Library?" :shrug:

If no crime was committed, why did ALE arrest/question so many people on suspicion of murder, kidnapping and heavy battery, or of being accomplices in connection with those crimes?

[No Nic]

Originally posted by nascarmom


LMAO

How come the Twitty's attorney didn't even know about until she heard it on the very show you linked to?


From you link:

SCARBOROUGH: But the FBI was the one—it was FBI agents were the ones that went to the Holloway family and said that she was dead, that one of the boys confessed. The FBI—I don't believe they would have made that up. Do you have any information on that?

DE SOUSA: No, because I just heard that on your program, that it was the FBI that went to the family and told them about this supposed confession.

I have had no confirmation, nor denial, again, if this is true or not, so I will, again, take a look at it. But from what I understood, there was no evident confession to that part.
==============

Now why would Beth withold a confession in the case from her own attorney?

LOL, the attorney was in Aruba. We know how slow everything moves there. Not much of an attorney that can't even keep up with the case. Unfortunate for the HTs.

imo

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


He 1st had this to say.

Did YOU read the link and pick out ONLY the part that would best fit your agenda ?

Doesn't matter what Paul Reynolds said!!!


A statement from the office of Attorney General Caren Janssen late Saturday said, "Information given by non-official sources jeopardizes the ongoing investigation and creates expectations and situations that are not based on fact."
...

Holloway's family believes she is alive, Tom Twitty said. Rumors that she is dead are "an aggressive interpretation" of what police are saying, he told The Associated Press.


http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/050612/officials.shtml

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by nascarmom
LMAO

Quick tell Freshwater that by putting the forum in the Crime Library section it means there was a crime.

LMAO

LMAO. Do you contact her often?

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


LOL, the attorney was in Aruba. We know how slow everything moves there. Not much of an attorney that can't even keep up with the case. Unfortunate for the HTs.

imo

Well you would think her client would SHARE what she knows. LMAO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


LMAO. Do you contact her often?

Only when you are especially annoying :biggrin:

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


If no crime was committed, why did ALE arrest/question so many people on suspicion of murder, kidnapping and heavy battery, or of being accomplices in connection with those crimes? Suspicion.


^keyword

MOO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Of course. If the media prints it it must be true. :tongue:

You keep posting that. I have a question for you. Where do you get your multitude of information that you post as the truth of this case? Are you a member of ALE?

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by nascarmom


Doesn't matter what Paul Reynolds said!!!


A statement from the office of Attorney General Caren Janssen late Saturday said, "Information given by non-official sources jeopardizes the ongoing investigation and creates expectations and situations that are not based on fact."
...

Holloway's family believes she is alive, Tom Twitty said. Rumors that she is dead are "an aggressive interpretation" of what police are saying, he told The Associated Press.


http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/050612/officials.shtml

This article is from June 12, 2005.


LMAO.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Suspicion.

MOO That's all it takes.

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by nascarmom
No, No. It's about Beth believing Natalee is alive and saying she got a voice mail from her when she was on the Dr Phil show.

I was asking about the Schipper interview with Cosby last December. They were talking about J2K being arrested for questioning again.

:)

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


This article is from June 12, 2005.


LMAO.

Uh Huh, the supposed confession and FBI telling Beth Natalee was dead occured on June 10th.

yep LMAO ;)

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


I was asking about the Schipper interview with Cosby last December. They were talking about J2K being arrested for questioning again.

:) I guess that never happened :shrug:

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by nascarmom


Only when you are especially annoying :biggrin:

I thought so. :D :no:

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by nascarmom


Uh Huh, the supposed confession and FBI telling Beth Natalee was dead occured on June 10th.

yep LMAO ;)

What does that have to do with if she thinks Natalee is dead NOW????????????

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic


He 1st had this to say.

" You know, we were told the report would come out the next day. Later that night, we saw the reports that confessions had been made, that something bad had happened. Shortly thereafter, it was retracted. The next morning, there was a report that said Natalee was confirmed dead. And these reports came from the deputy commissioner. They came from the spokesperson from the Ministry of Justice.

And then, all of a sudden, these statements and these confessions just disappeared.

SCARBOROUGH: And wait a second. I mean, these confessions were so rock solid that you actually had the FBI coming to you, coming to your family, Natalee's family, saying, we are sorry to tell you this, but there has been a confession. One of these boys has confessed, and Natalee is no longer alive.

How do you pull something like that back off the table? Have you had or has your sister had or has anybody in the family had any explanation from Aruban officials whatever happened to this confession, where they buried it?

REYNOLDS: I am not aware of any follow-up information. You know, this seemed to disappear from sight, these confessions did.

At the time, we thought that because the investigation is kept secret, we thought it was ongoing, and maybe they just didn't want to release it officially at that time. But, as we see that the appeals, the hearings are showing there's no evidence, but yet we have these confessions, it doesn't make any sense. It's as if they are being hidden or taken away.

SCARBOROUGH: You know, you said—talked about June the 10th. That's when you all were told that the confession had been made, and you said that the family actually started a grieving process. What did the family do?

REYNOLDS: You know, grieving is—it's a difficult process. We were all notified. We exchanged phone calls, making sure everyone in the family was notified. I even had to tell my children, very upsetting to them, very upsetting to all of us.

SCARBOROUGH: Wait, Paul. Are you telling me, back on June the 10th, you told your children, based on the confession of one of these—these punks that took Natalee away from the bar, that Natalee was dead? This was over a month ago. You had to break it to your family, the entire family, Natalee's entire family, because of the confessions, knew that she was dead, and yet here we are over a month later, and they are still claiming they don't have enough evidence to nail these guys? "

Did YOU read the link and pick out ONLY the part that would best fit your agenda ?


Yes I did read it. The so called confession was no confession and the FBI told them they believed Natalee was dead. I wonder why the FBI doesn't have her listed as dead on their website? Hmmm

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Suspicion.


^keyword

MOO

Why arrest anyone on suspicion of anything if the evidence doesn't support it?

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


What does that have to do with if she thinks Natalee is dead NOW????????????

Because of statements she makes now and what is reported she says at her speeches.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


If no crime was committed, why did ALE arrest/question so many people on suspicion of murder, kidnapping and heavy battery, or of being accomplices in connection with those crimes?


Because during the course of their investigation they can't add charges, only lower them so they start out with the highest charge and work down to fit facts. They were also investigating the possibiliy that Natalee ran away.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Why arrest anyone on suspicion of anything if the evidence doesn't support it?

Huh? How do they know what the evidence supports when they haven't investigated yet?

[No Nic]

Originally posted by nascarmom


Doesn't matter what Paul Reynolds said!!!


A statement from the office of Attorney General Caren Janssen late Saturday said, "Information given by non-official sources jeopardizes the ongoing investigation and creates expectations and situations that are not based on fact."
...

Holloway's family believes she is alive, Tom Twitty said. Rumors that she is dead are "an aggressive interpretation" of what police are saying, he told The Associated Press.


http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/050612/officials.shtml

It DOES matter what Paul Reynolds said !! He is speaking directly about the confession that was retracted. Who knows when Tom Twitty said what was in that article.

Oh, by the way, do you IN THIS INSTANCE believe what the media is reporting ?? Only when it suits you, right ? LOL

imo

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic


You keep posting that. I have a question for you. Where do you get your multitude of information that you post as the truth of this case? Are you a member of ALE?


Where do I get my information? By reading the court filings, listening to the attorenys involved.

[No Nic]

Originally posted by nascarmom


Well you would think her client would SHARE what she knows. LMAO

Well...........you would think an attorney would know and would be sharing with their client. Maybe this attorney was worthless ??

imo

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Why arrest anyone on suspicion of anything if the evidence doesn't support it?


Because that is how their system works. :rolleyes:

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Yes I did read it. The so called confession was no confession and the FBI told them they believed Natalee was dead. I wonder why the FBI doesn't have her listed as dead on their website? Hmmm

They believe she is dead and the Arubans and their misinformation campaign are keeping it from being official. Let's see what happens when they close this case and release all from suspect status. I do not believe this is over by a long shot.

imo

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Where do I get my information? By reading the court filings, listening to the attorenys involved.

Ohhhhh, Yeahhhhh, that would be where all the "truth" is. :tongue:

imo

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


It DOES matter what Paul Reynolds said !! He is speaking directly about the confession that was retracted. Who knows when Tom Twitty said what was in that article.

Oh, by the way, do you IN THIS INSTANCE believe what the media is reporting ?? Only when it suits you, right ? LOL

imo

The media is making direct quotes of statements from specific people so yes, it is more credible.

No it doesn't matter what Paul says because the Twitty's didn't believe it and even said so!

Who knows when Tom Twitty said that? LMAO Well it was either June 10th or 11th to make the June12 edition and certainly AFTER the 'confirmed dead' after a 'confession' was made story hit.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


Ohhhhh, Yeahhhhh, that would be where all the "truth" is. :tongue:

imo Well it's certainly been an eye opener in finding out just how extensively Beth has lied.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic


Ohhhhh, Yeahhhhh, that would be where all the "truth" is. :tongue:

imo


Are you finally admitting Beth and JQK's first filing was pure fantasy?

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


They believe she is dead and the Arubans and their misinformation campaign are keeping it from being official. Let's see what happens when they close this case and release all from suspect status. I do not believe this is over by a long shot.

imo

let's try this again:


As rumors mounted about the fate of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway, a spokeswoman for her family, Carla Caccavale, told The Associated Press: "The family confirms that a body has not been found."
...
A statement from the office of Attorney General Caren Janssen late Saturday said "Information given by non-official sources jeopardizes the ongoing investigation and creates expectations and situations that are not based on fact. "
...
Holloway's family believes she is alive, Tom Twitty said. Rumors that she is dead are "an aggressive interpretation" of what police are saying, he told The Associated Press.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1118488404265_12/?hub=World

The Family doesn't even believe it, maybe you should be sending them all your links.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Are you finally admitting Beth and JQK's first filing was pure fantasy?

Kinda looks that way :tongue:

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


Well...........you would think an attorney would know and would be sharing with their client. Maybe this attorney was worthless ??

imo :confused: Exactly how would the attorney know if her client didn't tell her?

[No Nic]

Originally posted by nascarmom


The media is making direct quotes of statements from specific people so yes, it is more credible.

No it doesn't matter what Paul says because the Twitty's didn't believe it and even said so!

Who knows when Tom Twitty said that? LMAO Well it was either June 10th or 11th to make the June12 edition and certainly AFTER the 'confirmed dead' after a 'confession' was made story hit.

How many more links do you want? I believe this one describes Beth's feelings of her daughters fate better than any other.

Most Fascinating People of 2005

Nov. 29, 2005

Beth Holloway Twitty: A Mother Undaunted

It's every parent's worst nightmare: let your child go away on vacation to a foreign land and they never return. We don't know what happened to Natalee Holloway, the teen who disappeared while vacationing in Aruba. But her bold, tenacious mother — Beth Holloway Twitty — will never rest until we do.

Twitty invites Walters into her daughter's bedroom, showing her graduation gifts that remain unopened and telling her she continues to hope that her daughter is alive.

"My biggest hope," she tells Walters, "is that she has only been kidnapped, raped, and drugged, and kept, against her will. I mean, I am hoping that they stopped with that, and didn't go ahead and kill her."

She acknowledges that she "buried" Natalie in her head when FBI officials told her in June that there was a strong possibility that her daughter was dead. Still, she is undaunted in her resolve to find out what happened to her girl. "I am never going to give up. … I will carry her story for the rest of my life."


http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=1353649

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic


How many more links do you want? I believe this one describes Beth's feelings of her daughters fate better than any other.

Most Fascinating People of 2005

Nov. 29, 2005

Beth Holloway Twitty: A Mother Undaunted

It's every parent's worst nightmare: let your child go away on vacation to a foreign land and they never return. We don't know what happened to Natalee Holloway, the teen who disappeared while vacationing in Aruba. But her bold, tenacious mother — Beth Holloway Twitty — will never rest until we do.

Twitty invites Walters into her daughter's bedroom, showing her graduation gifts that remain unopened and telling her she continues to hope that her daughter is alive.

"My biggest hope," she tells Walters, "is that she has only been kidnapped, raped, and drugged, and kept, against her will. I mean, I am hoping that they stopped with that, and didn't go ahead and kill her."

She acknowledges that she "buried" Natalie in her head when FBI officials told her in June that there was a strong possibility that her daughter was dead. Still, she is undaunted in her resolve to find out what happened to her girl. "I am never going to give up. … I will carry her story for the rest of my life."


http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=1353649


Which part confirms it? Where Beth says "I am hoping that they stopped with that, and didn't go ahead and kill her."

or is it "that there was a strong possibility that her daughter was dead.

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Are you finally admitting Beth and JQK's first filing was pure fantasy?

LMAO, you KNOW that is NOT what I am saying, but good try at spinning my sarcastic post.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


What does that have to do with if she thinks Natalee is dead NOW???????????? When did she switch?

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic


LMAO, you KNOW that is NOT what I am saying, but good try at spinning my sarcastic post.



Oh? Then what did you mean by this response???


Originally posted by No Nic


Ohhhhh, Yeahhhhh, that would be where all the "truth" is.

imo

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


How many more links do you want? I believe this one describes Beth's feelings of her daughters fate better than any other.

Most Fascinating People of 2005

Nov. 29, 2005

Twitty invites Walters into her daughter's bedroom, showing her graduation gifts that remain unopened and telling her she continues to hope that her daughter is alive.


She acknowledges that she "buried" Natalie in her head when FBI officials told her in June that there was a strong possibility that her daughter was dead.
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=1353649

No confirmation of death or hints of a confession.

And looky there, here she has the FBI saying there is a 'stong possibility' Natalee is dead.

Not even close to what Paul Reynolds said, Paul was telling children that Natalee was dead and he said the FBI told Beth of the confession and death.

So which story do you stand behind :shrug:

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by No Nic

<snip>
Twitty invites Walters into her daughter's bedroom, showing her graduation gifts that remain unopened and telling her she continues to hope that her daughter is alive.
<snip>

Why were the graduation gifts unopened?

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Why arrest anyone on suspicion of anything if the evidence doesn't support it? To make the family happy. And if the person arrested is guilty it might protect others. It also takes time to process evidence. I think ALE thought they would get a DNA match. When they didn't they let Joran free.

MOO

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
To make the family happy. And if the person arrested is guilty it might protect others. It also takes time to process evidence. I think ALE thought they would get a DNA match. When they didn't they let Joran free.

MOO



Under Aruban law they arrest then investigate which is why they arrest on suspicion.

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Which part confirms it? Where Beth says "I am hoping that they stopped with that, and didn't go ahead and kill her."

or is it "that there was a strong possibility that her daughter was dead.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that Beth in her heart of hearts does not WANT to believe Natalee is dead ?? Ask any parent that has lost a child, there IS denial and the desperate hope that it is not real.

The FBI saying there is a "strong possibility that her daughter was dead" was said at the time of the retracted confession/ misinformation campaign. They had no choice but to word it the way they did, but I do not believe they are as dumb as some would like to portray them....they know Natalee is dead and the crap Aruba was spouting was just that...........crap. Whether or not they can or are willing to do anything about it after this case is officially closed, is another matter.

imo

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by nascarmom


let's try this again:


As rumors mounted about the fate of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway, a spokeswoman for her family, Carla Caccavale, told The Associated Press: "The family confirms that a body has not been found."
...
A statement from the office of Attorney General Caren Janssen late Saturday said "Information given by non-official sources jeopardizes the ongoing investigation and creates expectations and situations that are not based on fact. "
...
Holloway's family believes she is alive, Tom Twitty said. Rumors that she is dead are "an aggressive interpretation" of what police are saying, he told The Associated Press.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1118488404265_12/?hub=World

The Family doesn't even believe it, maybe you should be sending them all your links. They know more than we do.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by nascarmom
:confused: Exactly how would the attorney know if her client didn't tell her? Head tap.

MOO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Watership Down




Oh? Then what did you mean by this response???


Originally posted by No Nic


Ohhhhh, Yeahhhhh, that would be where all the "truth" is.

imo

You're so smart, you figure it out. I am tired of fishing. :tongue:

[Heyes]

Originally posted by No Nic


How many more links do you want? I believe this one describes Beth's feelings of her daughters fate better than any other.

Most Fascinating People of 2005

Nov. 29, 2005

Beth Holloway Twitty: A Mother Undaunted

It's every parent's worst nightmare: let your child go away on vacation to a foreign land and they never return. We don't know what happened to Natalee Holloway, the teen who disappeared while vacationing in Aruba. But her bold, tenacious mother — Beth Holloway Twitty — will never rest until we do.

Twitty invites Walters into her daughter's bedroom, showing her graduation gifts that remain unopened and telling her she continues to hope that her daughter is alive.

"My biggest hope," she tells Walters, "is that she has only been kidnapped, raped, and drugged, and kept, against her will. I mean, I am hoping that they stopped with that, and didn't go ahead and kill her."

She acknowledges that she "buried" Natalie in her head when FBI officials told her in June that there was a strong possibility that her daughter was dead. Still, she is undaunted in her resolve to find out what happened to her girl. "I am never going to give up. … I will carry her story for the rest of my life."


http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=1353649

I can't imagine what that family has been through. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. She's one strong mama I'll tell you that. What a little powerhouse. Amazing woman! :rose:

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic


You're so smart, you figure it out. I am tired of fishing. :tongue:


Then stop throwing bait everywhere. :shrug:

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
To make the family happy. And if the person arrested is guilty it might protect others. It also takes time to process evidence. I think ALE thought they would get a DNA match. When they didn't they let Joran free.

MOO No Luke, they were waiting for the collective conscious of Aruba to conjur up a hurricane so Joran could be released behind the cloak of Katrina when the world's eyes were turned away.

[FitnessMom]

Originally posted by Heyes


I can't imagine what that family has been through. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. She's one strong mama I'll tell you that. What a little powerhouse. Amazing woman! :rose:

What has she accomplished?

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Heyes


I can't imagine what that family has been through. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. She's one strong mama I'll tell you that. What a little powerhouse. Amazing woman! :rose:

Yes she is Heyes.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


How many more links do you want? I believe this one describes Beth's feelings of her daughters fate better than any other.

Most Fascinating People of 2005

Nov. 29, 2005

Beth Holloway Twitty: A Mother Undaunted

It's every parent's worst nightmare: let your child go away on vacation to a foreign land and they never return. We don't know what happened to Natalee Holloway, the teen who disappeared while vacationing in Aruba. But her bold, tenacious mother — Beth Holloway Twitty — will never rest until we do.

Twitty invites Walters into her daughter's bedroom, showing her graduation gifts that remain unopened and telling her she continues to hope that her daughter is alive.

"My biggest hope," she tells Walters, "is that she has only been kidnapped, raped, and drugged, and kept, against her will. I mean, I am hoping that they stopped with that, and didn't go ahead and kill her."

She acknowledges that she "buried" Natalie in her head when FBI officials told her in June that there was a strong possibility that her daughter was dead. Still, she is undaunted in her resolve to find out what happened to her girl. "I am never going to give up. … I will carry her story for the rest of my life."


http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=1353649 Why didn't Natalee open her presents? Why do they call her "Natalie"?

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Then stop throwing bait everywhere. :shrug:

The truth isn't "BAIT", not opinion, but FACT !! But you are the master baiter, IMO.

Now go away.............................:seeya:

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Which part confirms it? Where Beth says "I am hoping that they stopped with that, and didn't go ahead and kill her."

or is it "that there was a strong possibility that her daughter was dead. "that there was a strong possibility that her daughter was dead.

The FBI tells the family members this.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Why were the graduation gifts unopened? Ditto

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic


The truth isn't "BAIT", not opinion, but FACT !! But you are the master baiter, IMO.

Now go away.............................:seeya:


The truth isn't bait? Please remember that the next time Beth's lies are discussed.

Now go away? I sure don't see moderator or administrator under your name. Until I do I will be right here responding to whatever posts I choose to respond to.

[FitnessMom]

Originally posted by No Nic


More in one year than you will likely in a lifetime.


imo

I make one post tonight - not even to you - and you respond this way.

This truly speaks volumes.

Seek help. You'll feel better in time.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


Why is it so hard for you to believe that Beth in her heart of hearts does not WANT to believe Natalee is dead ?? Ask any parent that has lost a child, there IS denial and the desperate hope that it is not real.

The FBI saying there is a "strong possibility that her daughter was dead" was said at the time of the retracted confession/ misinformation campaign. They had no choice but to word it the way they did, but I do not believe they are as dumb as some would like to portray them....they know Natalee is dead and the crap Aruba was spouting was just that...........crap. Whether or not they can or are willing to do anything about it after this case is officially closed, is another matter.

imo There is still hope. Nothing definite indicating Natalee is dead. :rose:

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


Why is it so hard for you to believe that Beth in her heart of hearts does not WANT to believe Natalee is dead ?? Ask any parent that has lost a child, there IS denial and the desperate hope that it is not real.

The FBI saying there is a "strong possibility that her daughter was dead" was said at the time of the retracted confession/ misinformation campaign. They had no choice but to word it the way they did, but I do not believe they are as dumb as some would like to portray them....they know Natalee is dead and the crap Aruba was spouting was just that...........crap. Whether or not they can or are willing to do anything about it after this case is officially closed, is another matter.

imo

The family doesn't even say what you are saying on their behalf and the FBI does not list Natalee as dead.

Exactly what do you think the FBI will be able to do after Aruba closes the case?

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by FitnessMom


What has she accomplished? She has started a foundation.

MOO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


More in one year than you will likely in a lifetime.


imo Yeah well there's not too many people that go around creating international incidents with their total disregard and disrespect for another country's laws. :rolleyes:

[No Nic]

Originally posted by FitnessMom


I make one post tonight - not even to you - and you respond this way.

This truly speaks volumes.

Seek help. You'll feel better in time.

LOL, I feel better for having responded to your post, don't need time. And in the words of Watership Down "I will be right here responding to whatever posts I choose to respond to".

It's funny how you all don't like it when we respond in the same way you all do. :D

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
She has started a foundation.

MOO

Yes she has, good point, Luke.


imo

[No Nic]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Yeah well there's not too many people that go around creating international incidents with their total disregard and disrespect for another country's laws. :rolleyes:

"international incident" Good one. :rolleyes:

imo

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


Yes she has, good point, Luke.


imo In a way I wish she had named the foundation after Natalee but some would have found fault in that. I was thinking of something less obvious where the initials might be NAH.

MOO

[FitnessMom]

Originally posted by No Nic


LOL, I feel better for having responded to your post, don't need time. And in the words of Watership Down "I will be right here responding to whatever posts I choose to respond to".

It's funny how you all don't like it when we respond in the same way you all do. :D

Unless you are Paula, I have never made a personal attack against you. And what I said to Paula was my opinion.

I'm glad you feel better, though.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic


LOL, I feel better for having responded to your post, don't need time. And in the words of Watership Down "I will be right here responding to whatever posts I choose to respond to".

It's funny how you all don't like it when we respond in the same way you all do. :D



Unlike you I don't attack posters. :rolleyes:

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Why were the graduation gifts unopened? Were they gifts or props?

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Were they gifts or props? Were they sorority dresses and Natalee knew what they were?

[FitnessMom]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Were they gifts or props?

Please empty your PM box. I have a gift for you :)

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Watership Down




Unlike you I don't attack posters. :rolleyes:

IMO, that is misinformation. :D

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


"international incident" Good one. :rolleyes:

imo Well why do you think the FBI banned her from all the meetings with the Aruban delegation?

Why did the good people of Aruba take to the streets to protest her disrepect for their law when she called 2K criminals?

Why do you think the call for a boycott fell flat on it's face?

Why do you think congressman Bachhus had weekly teleconferences with gvt officals of Aruba?

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic


IMO, that is misinformation. :D


No that is truth.

[FitnessMom]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
She has started a foundation.

MOO

Yes, she did. Do you know if she has finished the web site? The last time I checked it, there were only a few functions working. Like the donation function, for example.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by FitnessMom


Yes, she did. Do you know if she has finished the web site? The last time I checked it, there were only a few functions working. Like the donation function, for example.

Still under construction. Wonder if Beth has to go to Canada again to work on it.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Were they gifts or props?
Reminiscent of the Peterson Christmas tree, wasn't it?

[FitnessMom]

Originally posted by nascarmom


Still under construction. Wonder if Beth has to go to Canada again to work on it.

Probably, if that's where the computer is, ya know?

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Reminiscent of the Peterson Christmas tree, wasn't it? :eek:

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by FitnessMom


Probably, if that's where the computer is, ya know? Yeah, it's hard to find extension cords that long.

[FitnessMom]

Night y'all. I need to get a good night's sleep.

I'm volunteering at the retirement center tomorrow. Have to get some sleep to keep up with those whipper snappers!

:seeya:

[FitnessMom]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Yeah, it's hard to find extension cords that long.

Yep. :D

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by FitnessMom
Night y'all. I need to get a good night's sleep.

I'm volunteering at the retirement center tomorrow. Have to get some sleep to keep up with those whipper snappers!

:seeya:



Goodnight :seeya:

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by FitnessMom
Night y'all. I need to get a good night's sleep.

I'm volunteering at the retirement center tomorrow. Have to get some sleep to keep up with those whipper snappers!

:seeya:

Nite Fitness Mom :seeya:

[feelings]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


OK .... Now I'm lost ....

Since when is what is RIGHT determined by which country one is from?? What does Beth being a "fellow American" have to do with ANYTHING??

JMO
How do you determine what is RIGHT? The only thing you know about this guy that sent a fax from Curaçao to set Joran free is that he is supposed to be a judge. You have no idea how things are done down there. You have no idea about him, what kind of personality he has or why he really did this. But you know tons about Beth. Since when is what is RIGHT determined by an unknown foreign judge without any explanation? Since when are Americans no longer friends and doing the opposite of what I learned America means?

[dinojen]

Originally posted by feelings

How do you determine what is RIGHT? The only thing you know about this guy that sent a fax from Curaçao to set Joran free is that he is supposed to be a judge. You have no idea how things are done down there. You have no idea about him, what kind of personality he has or why he really did this. But you know tons about Beth. Since when is what is RIGHT determined by an unknown foreign judge without any explanation? Since when are Americans no longer friends and doing the opposite of what I learned America means?



I highly doubt he would be put in his position if he was not fit or capable.. and who are we.. AMERICANS.. to tell another countries legal system.. who is right and who is wrong...

Beth is an american.. this isn't about BETH... it's about a dutch young man being accused of having something to do with a missing american teen... their legal system has made their ruling..

Obviously their legal system found nothing according to their laws to hold this young man any longer... or for that matter charge him with any crime...

Oh I know what will be posted next... all the judges in Curaco are corrupt and they are all in on the cover up... okie dokie then...like we have no corruption in our legal system right here...

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by feelings

How do you determine what is RIGHT? The only thing you know about this guy that sent a fax from Curaçao to set Joran free is that he is supposed to be a judge. You have no idea how things are done down there. You have no idea about him, what kind of personality he has or why he really did this. But you know tons about Beth. Since when is what is RIGHT determined by an unknown foreign judge without any explanation? Since when are Americans no longer friends and doing the opposite of what I learned America means? Like I said, if you have issues with the judge, notify the person who appointed him - the Queen.

You don't know the laws governing the case nor have you seen the file or heard from any witnesses or the suspects or arguments from the Prosecutor and defense attorneys. The personalities of the judges in Aruba have no more bearing on their capabilities than they do in the USA. And the mother of a missing person in the USA doesn't determine what is 'right', so why should an American in another country do that?

I'm not even sure what you talking about in re a fax...but....since the Prosecutor used the max 116 day detention without charging him, the only option was to release him. Just think, in the USA, he would have never been arrested.

And as an aside, the judge(s) ruling on this case in Aruba are not 'unknown foreign judges' and since when did any judge have to offer any explanation? In the USA, judges either follow case law or set precedent, in Aruba they simply apply the written law.

I really don't understand your argument here.

[Gregor's Back]

So what about the unopened graduation gifts?

How come nobody, absolutely nobody, challenges Beth? Is there a conspiracy in the media?

[dinojen]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back
So what about the unopened graduation gifts?

How come nobody, absolutely nobody, challenges Beth? Is there a conspiracy in the media?



Not nice or politically correct to challenge the speculations or ramblings of a grieving mother.. no matter how far fetched or inaccurate they are... I suppose...:shrug:

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by dinojen




Not nice or politically correct to challenge the speculations or ramblings of a grieving mother.. no matter how far fetched or inaccurate they are... I suppose...:shrug:
I think there's a difference between accusing her of being invoved in Natalee's disappearance and trying to find out what she is involved in.

It's as if these people don't hear what she's saying, or see what she's doing.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back
So what about the unopened graduation gifts?

How come nobody, absolutely nobody, challenges Beth? Is there a conspiracy in the media? Beth would just do her usual and lie.moo :shrug:

[court~critic1®]

Originally posted by dinojen




Not nice or politically correct to challenge the speculations or ramblings of a grieving mother.. no matter how far fetched or inaccurate they are... I suppose...:shrug:



I myself have seen no grieving from this woman. Except for one picture. That is it.

As for the media, it is all about ratings, period. It hasn't been about the truth for the tabloid media in many years. IMOHOO

[redjetta]

Originally posted by feelings

How do you determine what is RIGHT? The only thing you know about this guy that sent a fax from Curaçao to set Joran free is that he is supposed to be a judge. You have no idea how things are done down there. You have no idea about him, what kind of personality he has or why he really did this. But you know tons about Beth. Since when is what is RIGHT determined by an unknown foreign judge without any explanation? Since when are Americans no longer friends and doing the opposite of what I learned America means?

Still going on about the Judge I see............

[dinojen]

Originally posted by court~critic1®




I myself have seen no grieving from this woman. Except for one picture. That is it.

As for the media, it is all about ratings, period. It hasn't been about the truth for the tabloid media in many years. IMOHOO



CC you are so right.. it's obvious by the coverage they are doing right now on the JBR case... all speculation...and it's coverage is just like Natalee's was in the beginning... 24/7. You think they would learn.. to put a lid on it till they have accurate information.. but that wouldn't help the ratings...

[dinojen]

Originally posted by redjetta


Still going on about the Judge I see............



YAWN zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz yes....

[redjetta]

Originally posted by dinojen




CC you are so right.. it's obvious by the coverage they are doing right now on the JBR case... all speculation...and it's coverage is just like Natalee's was in the beginning... 24/7. You think they would learn.. to put a lid on it till they have accurate information.. but that wouldn't help the ratings... .

I know the least the media can do is respect John R. wishes by not speculating as they did with him for 10 yrs. Oh well thats the media though always beating a dead horse on the "latest" tragedy.

imo

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by court~critic1®




I myself have seen no grieving from this woman. Except for one picture. That is it.
<snip>

If you're talking about the one where she's sitting on the floor reading mail, I think, just like the bedroom, it was staged.

[dinojen]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

If you're talking about the one where she's sitting on the floor reading mail, I think, just like the bedroom, it was staged.


Wasn't that one during a Greta interview? She was sitting on the hotel room floor... going through mail...if I am thinking of the one you are...

[court~critic1®]

Originally posted by dinojen



Wasn't that one during a Greta interview? She was sitting on the hotel room floor... going through mail...if I am thinking of the one you are...


......oops, I didn't see that one, but then I don't watch Greta. lol

No, the one I am talking about is the one where 2 men, one on each arm, is walking with her. Looks like out a building of some kind, or through an airport. Of course her face is so askew that you really can't tell if there are tears or not. moo

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by dinojen



Wasn't that one during a Greta interview? She was sitting on the hotel room floor... going through mail...if I am thinking of the one you are...
I don't know if it was originally on Greta. I saw it on a few sites on the internet.

[dinojen]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I don't know if it was originally on Greta. I saw it on a few sites on the internet.


I just remember Greta doing an interview with her in Natalee's hotel room...and she was sitting on the floor going through mail and things.. I'm pretty sure it was Natalee's room.. it possibly could of been the room she moved to after she left Natalee's hotel.. but I know she was in Aruba when they did the interview.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by dinojen



I just remember Greta doing an interview with her in Natalee's hotel room...and she was sitting on the floor going through mail and things.. I'm pretty sure it was Natalee's room.. it possibly could of been the room she moved to after she left Natalee's hotel.. but I know she was in Aruba when they did the interview.
The first time I saw it I thought it was posed because it looked like the kind of scene which if you happened upon, you wouldn't intrude by taking a picture.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by FitnessMom


Probably, if that's where the computer is, ya know? It would be difficult for the FBI to confiscate her computer in Canada.

moo

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back
So what about the unopened graduation gifts?

How come nobody, absolutely nobody, challenges Beth? Is there a conspiracy in the media? I would not call it a conspiracy, more likely a code of conduct. Don't challenge a victim or victim's family.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I think there's a difference between accusing her of being invoved in Natalee's disappearance and trying to find out what she is involved in.

It's as if these people don't hear what she's saying, or see what she's doing. I think the bottom line is, it's entertainment. All about ratings.

MOO

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
I think the bottom line is, it's entertainment. All about ratings.

MOO


Did you get the google alert about that todays? I was roflmao over that one. :tongue:



In the scheme of things, it's not all that important. Yet you and I both know that when this character was arrested in Bangkok, Larry King wet himself, Greta Van Susteren's head exploded, and Nancy Grace sacrificed a small goat as a way of giving thanks to Satan for the ratings bonanza that will now ensue.

http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_230195658.html

[feelings]

Originally posted by dinojen

I highly doubt he would be put in his position if he was not fit or capable.. and who are we.. AMERICANS.. to tell another countries legal system.. who is right and who is wrong...

Beth is an american.. this isn't about BETH... it's about a dutch young man being accused of having something to do with a missing american teen... their legal system has made their ruling..

Obviously their legal system found nothing according to their laws to hold this young man any longer... or for that matter charge him with any crime...

Oh I know what will be posted next... all the judges in Curaco are corrupt and they are all in on the cover up... okie dokie then...like we have no corruption in our legal system right here...
Really? IIRC America is something that you do. Not just any old place where you are born and your life is determined by who your father is. Where girls and women are respected and people are judged by whether they make sense and do what they say. You cannot make a decent judgement if you have no information to evaluate. A judge is no exception. Your attitude sounds like benevolent ethnocentrism to me. People do not have the freedom and the choices you do, but you act as if that wasn´t relevant or true. IMO

[Watership Down]

Hmmmmm so much for many Arubans thinking Joran and the Kalpoes are guilty.....or is Jossy lying again???


Has common sense come to an end? Those who caused the harm now want to shift the guilt to the few Arubans who have the courage to show their face and put the correct name to the correct facts. Are we, by any chance, not aware that Natalee went missing when she was in the company of Joran and the Kalpoe brothers?


http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/11/editorial-natalee-boycott-and.html

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by No Nic


"international incident" Good one. :rolleyes:

imo

I'm curious, No Nic. I saw your response to FM#2, and my first thought was .... you really have no CLUE what any of us have accomplished. When I think of "accomplishments", in a broad sense, I think of "something done for the good of mankind". What has Beth accomplished, that you would put it in the context of FM#2's lifetime??

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by FitnessMom


Yes, she did. Do you know if she has finished the web site? The last time I checked it, there were only a few functions working. Like the donation function, for example.

WOW .... I noticed that too #2. That's an IMPORTANT function though .... ;)

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

If you're talking about the one where she's sitting on the floor reading mail, I think, just like the bedroom, it was staged. not real happy (http://www.katablog.com/images/Beth.jpg)


not filled with joy (http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2005/06/19/aruba-teen-inside.jpg)

not a happy camper (http://www.poeforward.com/mrperfumery/deadgirls/future/missing/holloway/index_files/image005.jpg)


MOO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Watership Down
Hmmmmm so much for many Arubans thinking Joran and the Kalpoes are guilty.....or is Jossy lying again???


Has common sense come to an end? Those who caused the harm now want to shift the guilt to the few Arubans who have the courage to show their face and put the correct name to the correct facts. Are we, by any chance, not aware that Natalee went missing when she was in the company of Joran and the Kalpoe brothers?


http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/11/editorial-natalee-boycott-and.html

LOL, this is an article from Nov. 2005, when a handful of protester took to the streets. I don't call that "many" Arubans and it wasn't about JK2's guilt, it was to protest the media and the portrayal of Aruba, IIRC.

Also from your link:
"In a democratic country such as the U.S., no medium will let itself be threatened by the government in charge, because of a of shouters outside"

Thanks for this artice, a very good read, everyone should read it, I am sure there are many that agree with Jossy 1000%.

imo

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Did you get the google alert about that todays? I was roflmao over that one. :tongue:



In the scheme of things, it's not all that important. Yet you and I both know that when this character was arrested in Bangkok, Larry King wet himself, Greta Van Susteren's head exploded, and Nancy Grace sacrificed a small goat as a way of giving thanks to Satan for the ratings bonanza that will now ensue.

http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_230195658.html Funny but true.

MOO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
not real happy (http://www.katablog.com/images/Beth.jpg)


not filled with joy (http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2005/06/19/aruba-teen-inside.jpg)

not a happy camper (http://www.poeforward.com/mrperfumery/deadgirls/future/missing/holloway/index_files/image005.jpg)


MOO

Thank you, Luke.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by feelings

How do you determine what is RIGHT? The only thing you know about this guy that sent a fax from Curaçao to set Joran free is that he is supposed to be a judge. You have no idea how things are done down there. You have no idea about him, what kind of personality he has or why he really did this. But you know tons about Beth. Since when is what is RIGHT determined by an unknown foreign judge without any explanation? Since when are Americans no longer friends and doing the opposite of what I learned America means?

feelings .... The premise of "right" is determined wherever you are. If I feel Americans are "wrong" in their actions, I will say so. In THIS case, I think Beth is wrong. Her ACTIONS have been what I consider distasteful.

I know nothing about this Judge .... you are correct .... just the same as I knew nothing about the Judges in most of the high-profile cases in this country. There comes a time when one has to depend on the LAW, no matter which country one is in.

In THIS particular case, we have no choice other than to depend on "foreign judges".

If you can tell me "why he did this", OTHER than following the law .... please enlighten me. The fact the Prosecutor says their is no evidence in this case, speaks volumes to me.

JMO

[redjetta]

Originally posted by feelings

Really? IIRC America is something that you do. Not just any old place where you are born and your life is determined by who your father is. Where girls and women are respected and people are judged by whether they make sense and do what they say. You cannot make a decent judgement if you have no information to evaluate. A judge is no exception. Your attitude sounds like benevolent ethnocentrism to me. People do not have the freedom and the choices you do, but you act as if that wasn´t relevant or true. IMO

America means having a voice of your own & having the freedom to your own thoughts & opinions (to me)

I believe one can fully make a judgement based on the FEW things that we do know & the lack of edvidence. Just because one does not come to the same conclusion as you have does not mean they are not forming their own opinions & judgements.

[court~critic1®]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
not real happy (http://www.katablog.com/images/Beth.jpg)


not filled with joy (http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2005/06/19/aruba-teen-inside.jpg)

not a happy camper (http://www.poeforward.com/mrperfumery/deadgirls/future/missing/holloway/index_files/image005.jpg)


MOO




Ahhh! Thank you Luke. you are a dear. imoo The first one, not real happy, is the only one I have seen. I still haven't seen a tear yet in any of them. She is trying hard I will agree. moo

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by dinojen


<<SNIP>>
Beth is an american.. this isn't about BETH... it's about a dutch young man being accused of having something to do with a missing american teen... their legal system has made their ruling..



jen .... You said EXACTLY what I wanted to say, but you said it better. THIS paragraph says it all. You are so right .... this is NOT about Beth, as much as some would like to make it so.

ETA .... I should add .... this is not about Beth as far as the Judge's ruling is concerned. When she is before the public eye constantly .... then it DOES become about Beth.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Like I said, if you have issues with the judge, notify the person who appointed him - the Queen.

You don't know the laws governing the case nor have you seen the file or heard from any witnesses or the suspects or arguments from the Prosecutor and defense attorneys. The personalities of the judges in Aruba have no more bearing on their capabilities than they do in the USA. And the mother of a missing person in the USA doesn't determine what is 'right', so why should an American in another country do that?

I'm not even sure what you talking about in re a fax...but....since the Prosecutor used the max 116 day detention without charging him, the only option was to release him. Just think, in the USA, he would have never been arrested.

And as an aside, the judge(s) ruling on this case in Aruba are not 'unknown foreign judges' and since when did any judge have to offer any explanation? In the USA, judges either follow case law or set precedent, in Aruba they simply apply the written law.

I really don't understand your argument here.

WOW .... nm .... I don't either!!! Everyone keeps responding to feelings' post so much better than I did.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

The first time I saw it I thought it was posed because it looked like the kind of scene which if you happened upon, you wouldn't intrude by taking a picture.

You know, Gregor .... you come up with some things which just make SENSE!! You're RIGHT!!!

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Did you get the google alert about that todays? I was roflmao over that one. :tongue:



In the scheme of things, it's not all that important. Yet you and I both know that when this character was arrested in Bangkok, Larry King wet himself, Greta Van Susteren's head exploded, and Nancy Grace sacrificed a small goat as a way of giving thanks to Satan for the ratings bonanza that will now ensue.

http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_230195658.html

OMG!!!!! LMAOOOOOO !!!!!

[feelings]

Originally posted by redjetta


America means having a voice of your own & having the freedom to your own thoughts & opinions (to me)

I believe one can fully make a judgement based on the FEW things that we do know & the lack of edvidence. Just because one does not come to the same conclusion as you have does not mean they are not forming their own opinions & judgements.
I totally agree with your first statement.

But people that are not in America don´t have that. Maybe that´s why there is no evidence!

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by feelings

Really? IIRC America is something that you do. Not just any old place where you are born and your life is determined by who your father is. Where girls and women are respected and people are judged by whether they make sense and do what they say. You cannot make a decent judgement if you have no information to evaluate. A judge is no exception. Your attitude sounds like benevolent ethnocentrism to me. People do not have the freedom and the choices you do, but you act as if that wasn´t relevant or true. IMO

I think Gregor said it well the other night .... I have to admit, you succeed in befuddling me ALSO, sometimes.

I believe I'm very lucky to be an American .... one of the rights I have is to express my opinion. I don't think, BECAUSE I'm an American, it makes me any better than anyone else.

Unfortunately, we're not talking about American law here, we are talking about Dutch law. You, apparently, have no problem DISAGREEING with the Judge's decision. Can I assume you are learned enough about Dutch Law to ARRIVE at that determination?? Does it mean anything to you at all that the Prosecutor said there was no evidence of a crime?? That would matter in THIS country. It SHOULD matter anywhere in the world!!!

This has NOTHING whatsoever to do with America and Americans.

JMO

[forensicpsy]

"Aruba to Host Caribbean Marketplace 2007"

From the article:

"This is a perfect opportunity to re-launch the image of Aruba and show the world what a terrific destination Aruba really is - our hospitality will be our biggest selling point."

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/cgi-script/csArticles/articles/000017/001762.htm

They sure sound worried to me.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by feelings

Really? IIRC America is something that you do. Not just any old place where you are born and your life is determined by who your father is. Where girls and women are respected and people are judged by whether they make sense and do what they say. You cannot make a decent judgement if you have no information to evaluate. A judge is no exception. Your attitude sounds like benevolent ethnocentrism to me. People do not have the freedom and the choices you do, but you act as if that wasn´t relevant or true. IMO

America is something you do????? :shrug:

Where was your beef with the judge when he was ordering continued detainment?

The good people of Aruba do have freedom and do have choices. They can even VOTE :eek:

If girls and women aren't respected, how is it that a QUEEN rules? Is that just a PR stunt?

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by forensicpsy
"Aruba to Host Caribbean Marketplace 2007"

From the article:

"This is a perfect opportunity to re-launch the image of Aruba and show the world what a terrific destination Aruba really is - our hospitality will be our biggest selling point."

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/cgi-script/csArticles/articles/000017/001762.htm

They sure sound worried to me.

Hi forensic ....

I see nothing ODD about the fact they might be worried about their image. They DEPEND on tourists!! That's their business. :shrug:

JMO

[redjetta]

Originally posted by feelings

I totally agree with your first statement.

But people that are not in America don´t have that. Maybe that´s why there is no evidence!

I can't say for sure in regards to your second statement. However my opinion on this situation is that if one had this info all they needed to do was go to the American media tell them your info so this way you couldnt be threatened or silenced & then take the 1 million dollar reward money & get out & start a new life where you are no longer afaraid or silenced.

imo

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


You know, Gregor .... you come up with some things which just make SENSE!! You're RIGHT!!!

JMO journal time (http://www.foxnews.com/photo_essay/photoessay_451_images/12.jpg)

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by forensicpsy
"Aruba to Host Caribbean Marketplace 2007"

From the article:

"This is a perfect opportunity to re-launch the image of Aruba and show the world what a terrific destination Aruba really is - our hospitality will be our biggest selling point."

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/cgi-script/csArticles/articles/000017/001762.htm

They sure sound worried to me.

Nothing like a current article, that one is from Monday, May 29, 2006. LOL

“We are extremely pleased to come back to Aruba after a 15 year hiatus; the commitment and professionalism shown by the host association – the Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association (AHATA) – as well as the strong support from the Ministry of Tourism and Transportation and the Aruba Tourism Authority will ensure a highly successful event,” said CHA President Berthia Parle.


They sure sound excited to me. Way to go! WooooHooooo Aruba :rose:

[No Nic]

Originally posted by forensicpsy
"Aruba to Host Caribbean Marketplace 2007"

From the article:

"This is a perfect opportunity to re-launch the image of Aruba and show the world what a terrific destination Aruba really is - our hospitality will be our biggest selling point."

http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/cgi-script/csArticles/articles/000017/001762.htm

They sure sound worried to me.

I agree. I wonder how much of their image budget they spent to get this opportunity?

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Hi forensic ....

I see nothing ODD about the fact they might be worried about their image. They DEPEND on tourists!! That's their business. :shrug:

JMO

Right fm. And their image is in the toilet.

Some will have you believe otherwise.

:seeya:




moo

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by nascarmom


Nothing like a current article, that one is from Monday, May 29, 2006. LOL

“We are extremely pleased to come back to Aruba after a 15 year hiatus; the commitment and professionalism shown by the host association – the Aruba Hotel & Tourism Association (AHATA) – as well as the strong support from the Ministry of Tourism and Transportation and the Aruba Tourism Authority will ensure a highly successful event,” said CHA President Berthia Parle.


They sure sound excited to me. Way to go! WooooHooooo Aruba :rose:

So? Did you post it in May? Don't answer - you did not,

They sure sound desperate to me. LOL.

moo

[No Nic]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


Right fm. And their image is in the toilet.

Some will have you believe otherwise.

:seeya:




moo

LOL, and Beth Twitty pushed the handle. :patriot:


imo

[redjetta]

Originally posted by No Nic


LOL, and Beth Twitty pushed the handle. :patriot:


imo

on innocent people who tried to help her

imo

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by No Nic


LOL, and Beth Twitty pushed the handle. :patriot:


imo

Perhaps THAT was one of her so-called "accomplishments" .... To try to destroy the image of one small Island??

JMO

[Heyes]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


So? Did you post it in May? Don't answer - you did not,

They sure sound desperate to me. LOL.

moo

Yup, it sure seems that way with alll the free trips and pr their doing. So far the numbers aren't reflecting all their effort!


:patriot:

[Heyes]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Perhaps THAT was one of her so-called "accomplishments" .... To try to destroy the image of one small Island??

JMO

All she had to do was shine a bright light on them. They killed their own image.

[feelings]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


I think Gregor said it well the other night .... I have to admit, you succeed in befuddling me ALSO, sometimes.

I believe I'm very lucky to be an American .... one of the rights I have is to express my opinion. I don't think, BECAUSE I'm an American, it makes me any better than anyone else.

Unfortunately, we're not talking about American law here, we are talking about Dutch law. You, apparently, have no problem DISAGREEING with the Judge's decision. Can I assume you are learned enough about Dutch Law to ARRIVE at that determination?? Does it mean anything to you at all that the Prosecutor said there was no evidence of a crime?? That would matter in THIS country. It SHOULD matter anywhere in the world!!!

This has NOTHING whatsoever to do with America and Americans.

JMO
IMO what you are saying - or shouting - is absolutely ridiculous. You are aware that you are dealing with people that do not have a voice of their own yet you think you´re entitled to simply believe what their decision makers say. How convenient and comfortable for you. Your attitude has "NOTHING whatsoever to do with America".

[redjetta]

Originally posted by feelings

IMO what you are saying - or shouting - is absolutely ridiculous. You are aware that you are dealing with people that do not have a voice of their own yet you think you´re entitled to simply believe what their decision makers say. How convenient and comfortable for you. Your attitude has "NOTHING whatsoever to do with America".

If any Arubans had any info why wouldnt they tell the American media & ask for protection?

[Heyes]

Originally posted by feelings

IMO what you are saying - or shouting - is absolutely ridiculous. You are aware that you are dealing with people that do not have a voice of their own yet you think you´re entitled to simply believe what their decision makers say. How convenient and comfortable for you. Your attitude has "NOTHING whatsoever to do with America".

Loyalty,
There are 2 sides that are differing one aruban, one american.
The facts as we know them are simple.
Natalee ( american) went into a bar.
At some point she left with 3 arubans.
we don't know the circumstances of her leaving with them.
could be she wanted to
could be they bs'd her into thinking they were merely going to the hotel where they all were staying or so she was lead to believe.
could be they drugged her drink and she had no idea what was happening.
The next fact:
the 3 arubans return.
Natalee never does
The 3 arubans lie about their alibi and about other people, multiple times.
We know 2 innocent men were jailed because of this.
I'm going to err on the side of the American.

[feelings]

Originally posted by redjetta


If any Arubans had any info why wouldnt they tell the American media & ask for protection?
good question. Maybe they don´t trust the American media. Maybe they think they wouldn´t survive. The media would check their story first, they wouldn´t just believe them and protect them immediately. As soon as the media starts checking, others would find out they talked.

If it´s a bad story, if they were witnesses and suspects at the same time which is likely, they would get in trouble if they talked. Like a bystander who didn´t help. Would someone like that really believe they would get a reward if they talked?

[No Nic]

Originally posted by redjetta


on innocent people who tried to help her

imo

The people that had the obligation to help her, DID NOT. They are the ones responsible for what happens on their "Once Happy Island", not Beth.

imo

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Heyes


Loyalty,
There are 2 sides that are differing one aruban, one american.
The facts as we know them are simple.
Natalee ( american) went into a bar.
At some point she left with 3 arubans.
we don't know the circumstances of her leaving with them.
could be she wanted to
could be they bs'd her into thinking they were merely going to the hotel where they all were staying or so she was lead to believe.
could be they drugged her drink and she had no idea what was happening.
The next fact:
the 3 arubans return.
Natalee never does
The 3 arubans lie about their alibi and about other people, multiple times.
We know 2 innocent men were jailed because of this.
I'm going to err on the side of the American. The 3 were not Arubans.
We don't know 2 innocent men were arrested.
MOO

[redjetta]

Originally posted by feelings

good question. Maybe they don´t trust the American media. Maybe they think they wouldn´t survive. The media would check their story first, they wouldn´t just believe them and protect them immediately. As soon as the media starts checking, others would find out they talked.

If it´s a bad story, if they were witnesses and suspects at the same time which is likely, they would get in trouble if they talked. Like a bystander who didn´t help. Would someone like that really believe they would get a reward if they talked?

I see how one could distrust the Media however I would think that if the living conditions were that bad that I would rather take my chances then live in corruption.

JMO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Perhaps THAT was one of her so-called "accomplishments" .... To try to destroy the image of one small Island??

JMO

If "THAT" stops this from EVER happening to a tourist (or one of Arubas own) again, then YES it would be a huge accomplishment.

I only wish Bud Larson's family were able to be involved, but they have been through too much and cannot bear to add to the pain, disappointment and dispair they suffered at the hands of these "good people of Aruba". :cuss: :flamemad:

IMO

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by feelings

IMO what you are saying - or shouting - is absolutely ridiculous. You are aware that you are dealing with people that do not have a voice of their own yet you think you´re entitled to simply believe what their decision makers say. How convenient and comfortable for you. Your attitude has "NOTHING whatsoever to do with America".

Feelings, what people are you talking about?


:confused:

[redjetta]

Originally posted by No Nic


The people that had the obligation to help her, DID NOT. They are the ones responsible for what happens on their "Once Happy Island", not Beth.

imo

So since I live in IL. I am required to look after ALL outsiders? How can ALL Arubans be held responsible for a missing tourist? Are they babysitters?

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by Heyes


Loyalty,
There are 2 sides that are differing one aruban, one american.
The facts as we know them are simple.
Natalee ( american) went into a bar.
At some point she left with 3 arubans.
we don't know the circumstances of her leaving with them.
could be she wanted to
could be they bs'd her into thinking they were merely going to the hotel where they all were staying or so she was lead to believe.
could be they drugged her drink and she had no idea what was happening.
The next fact:
the 3 arubans return.
Natalee never does
The 3 arubans lie about their alibi and about other people, multiple times.
We know 2 innocent men were jailed because of this.
I'm going to err on the side of the American.


This is the most xenophobic post I’ve ever read.

[redjetta]

Originally posted by No Nic


If "THAT" stops this from EVER happening to a tourist (or one of Arubas own) again, then YES it would be a huge accomplishment.

I only wish Bud Larson's family were able to be involved, but they have been through too much and cannot bear to add to the pain, disappointment and dispair they suffered at the hands of these "good people of Aruba". :cuss: :flamemad:

IMO

No Nic theirs bad people every where however you can't hold EVERYONE responsible for things they can't control. So in the United States Of America tourists never turned up missing?

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
journal time (http://www.foxnews.com/photo_essay/photoessay_451_images/12.jpg)
This isn't the picture I was referring to.

This one looks like it was taken in her home. The one I was talking about was probably taken in Aruba.

[No Nic]

Originally posted by redjetta


So since I live in IL. I am required to look after ALL outsiders? How can ALL Arubans be held responsible for a missing tourist? Are they babysitters?

Okay, one more time.

The people that had the obligation to help her (ALE/Aruban Officials), DID NOT. They (ALE/Aruban Officials) are the ones responsible for what happens on their "Once Happy Island", not Beth. If the innocent people of Aruba are in jeopardy of losing their livelihood/job they need to stand up against the corrupt, inept or simply uncaring officials that run the island, not a woman who is desperately searching for her missing daughter.

imo

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Unperson1984



This is the most xenophobic post I’ve ever read.

Why would you say that ??? Heyes pretty much summed up the facts of this case. Nothing xenophobic about it. :rolleyes:

imo

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by redjetta


So since I live in IL. I am required to look after ALL outsiders? How can ALL Arubans be held responsible for a missing tourist? Are they babysitters? Don't let outsiders in your state without chaperones, please.:hat:

[cassidy]

Originally posted by feelings

good question. Maybe they don´t trust the American media. Maybe they think they wouldn´t survive. The media would check their story first, they wouldn´t just believe them and protect them immediately. As soon as the media starts checking, others would find out they talked.

If it´s a bad story, if they were witnesses and suspects at the same time which is likely, they would get in trouble if they talked. Like a bystander who didn´t help. Would someone like that really believe they would get a reward if they talked?

Why go to the media? Why not the FBI? They are the ones advertising for any information and I'd bet they'd find a way to help, don't you?

[No Nic]

Originally posted by redjetta


No Nic theirs bad people every where however you can't hold EVERYONE responsible for things they can't control. So in the United States Of America tourists never turned up missing?

We are not discussing "everywhere" or what happens in the "United States of America", but we ARE discussing Natalee Holloway who went missing in ARUBA and the ALE/Officials are NOT willing to reveal what happened to her. And I believe the KNOW exactly what happened to her.

I do not believe in AMERICA, in any state, the LE would INTENTIONALLY botch a case of a missing resident or tourist.

Once again, because you can't seem to get it..........I do not hold the "people" of Aruba responsible, only the ALE.

imo

[redjetta]

Originally posted by No Nic


Okay, one more time.

The people that had the obligation to help her (ALE/Aruban Officials), DID NOT. They (ALE/Aruban Officials) are the ones responsible for what happens on their "Once Happy Island", not Beth. If the innocent people of Aruba are in jeopardy of losing their livelihood/job they need to stand up against the corrupt, inept or simply uncaring officials that run the island, not a woman who is desperately searching for her missing daughter.

imo

No need to be rude I simply mis took what you meant - A boycott however does not effect the people that it should it effects the hard working lower & middle class people.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


Why would you say that ??? Heyes pretty much summed up the facts of this case. Nothing xenophobic about it. :rolleyes:

imo Her summation was completely biased and not what "we" believe.

MOO

[redjetta]

Originally posted by No Nic


We are not discussing "everywhere" or what happens in the "United States of America", but we ARE discussing Natalee Holloway who went missing in ARUBA and the ALE/Officials are NOT willing to reveal what happened to her. And I believe the KNOW exactly what happened to her.

I do not believe in AMERICA, in any state, the LE would INTENTIONALLY botch a case of a missing resident or tourist.

Once again, because you can't seem to get it..........I do not hold the "people" of Aruba responsible, only the ALE.

imo

Sorry I "can't seem to get it" I just misunderstood the meaning of your post I will try to understand better next time

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


We are not discussing "everywhere" or what happens in the "United States of America", but we ARE discussing Natalee Holloway who went missing in ARUBA and the ALE/Officials are NOT willing to reveal what happened to her. And I believe the KNOW exactly what happened to her.

I do not believe in AMERICA, in any state, the LE would INTENTIONALLY botch a case of a missing resident or tourist.

Once again, because you can't seem to get it..........I do not hold the "people" of Aruba responsible, only the ALE.

imo I would "get it", I think we would all agree with you if only you would reveal the proof to us.

MOO

[dinojen]

Originally posted by feelings

IMO what you are saying - or shouting - is absolutely ridiculous. You are aware that you are dealing with people that do not have a voice of their own yet you think you´re entitled to simply believe what their decision makers say. How convenient and comfortable for you. Your attitude has "NOTHING whatsoever to do with America".



Huh ????????

What has America got to do with a judge from Curaco's decision? I am totally lost... and the last time I checked... "these people" as you call them do have a voice fo their own.. and whatever else you said.. makes no sense to me at least...

What am I missing...

Her attitude about America sounds just like mine...

Get off this judges arse why don't you until you are a Dutch national or live in Aruba and you might possibly then have a reasonable complaint...

American's have no say in their countries legal decisions.. guess we just have to accept that... or better yet don't travel to their country... if you can't handle their legal system...

[No Nic]

Originally posted by redjetta


No need to be rude I simply mis took what you meant - A boycott however does not effect the people that it should it effects the hard working lower & middle class people.

It wasn't meant to be rude, and I am sorry you took it to be.

A boycott effects everyone, otherwise we would not be seeing the ATA scrambling to correct their less than favorable image. The higher ups lose their precious dollars too. IMO, the higher ups value their dollar much, much more than the lower/middle class and they are sweating (no pun intended).

I know it will impact the hard working low/middle class more, that is why they need to take to the streets in protest of this miserable investigation, INSTEAD of protesting against the media and a mother desperately trying to find her daughter. They need to get their priorities straight, IMO.

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Her summation was completely biased and not what "we" believe.

MOO

I don't know who your "we" is, but my "we" believe it.

imo

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
I would "get it", I think we would all agree with you if only you would reveal the proof to us.

MOO

It's right in front of you, sorry you can't see it.

imo

[redjetta]

Originally posted by No Nic


It wasn't meant to be rude, and I am sorry you took it to be.

A boycott effects everyone, otherwise we would not be seeing the ATA scrambling to correct their less than favorable image. The higher ups lose their precious dollars too. IMO, the higher ups value their dollar much, much more than the lower/middle class and they are sweating (no pun intended).

I know it will impact the hard working low/middle class more, that is why they need to take to the streets in protest of this miserable investigation, INSTEAD of protesting against the media and a mother desperately trying to find her daughter. They need to get their priorities straight, IMO.

Easier said than done!

imo

[redjetta]

Originally posted by No Nic


It's right in front of you, sorry you can't see it.

imo

I simply dont see "it" either. I understand that you see it clearly but I need proof not just speculation.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


I don't know who your "we" is, but my "we" believe it.

imo You believe Joran is Aruban?

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


It's right in front of you, sorry you can't see it.

imo My desk is a little messy. Maybe someone will show me the way.

MOO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by feelings

IMO what you are saying - or shouting - is absolutely ridiculous. You are aware that you are dealing with people that do not have a voice of their own yet you think you´re entitled to simply believe what their decision makers say. How convenient and comfortable for you. Your attitude has "NOTHING whatsoever to do with America".

I apologize if you thought I was shouting. I tend to capitalize when I want to emphasize certain words.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion of what I think. "Entitlement" is not something I'm seeking here, feelings. I wasn't aware I was portraying any "attitude".

Like I said .... just because your opinion might be different than mine .... it doesn't necessarily make you right.

JMO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
You believe Joran is Aruban?

Sheesh........does everything have to be technical and exact around here?? :rolleyes:

imo

[No Nic]

Originally posted by No Nic


Sheesh........does everything have to be technical and exact around here?? :rolleyes:


eta: And I don't mean the investigation, et al. I mean things such as "is Joran Aruban".

imo