DISCUSSION THREAD WEEK OF 8/14

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


It would take up too much bandwidth. I restrained myself. Thank you.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Jacob
Pepsi Zero? Zero what - taste?


I thought that about the Sprite Zero but it's actually pretty good. :D

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Jacob
So what was the point in putting them up? Were these Mrs Twitty's secret weapon her and Jug threatened to release if J2K were released from detention?


That's what I think.

I read somewhere that Paulus' statement/s would never be released because he was released as a suspect. If that is true then that tells me someone deliberately leaked it. But it is backfiring because it doesn't back up any of Beth's claims and shows her in a poor light.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


Why what, Luke That would be the Dutch family (Joran and Anita) that started that.

Why that.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by FitnessMom
Just out of curiosity. Does anybody know what kind of car Natalee drove? I have never seen that mentioned. I remember a photo of her on a motorcycle. I think she was in a station wagon in a video.

MOO

[Watership Down]

True.

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by Watership Down



True.

Yep....

nice to be back.....goodness those other threads are even more tiring than this one.......LOL

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


Yep....

nice to be back.....goodness those other threads are even more tiring than this one.......LOL


I see that. I've posted a couple of times but that's it.

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


Yep....

nice to be back.....goodness those other threads are even more tiring than this one.......LOL

It was quite hostile in here tonight, I stepped out too.

:)

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


It was quite hostile in here tonight, I stepped out too.

:)

Unperson......oh thank goodness you are here.....may I pm you? :D

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


Unperson......oh thank goodness you are here.....may I pm you? :D

Certainly.

:)

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


It was quite hostile in here tonight, I stepped out too.

:)


I apologize for my part in it but I really hate someone twisting my words and that is done frequently by some people.

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by Watership Down



I apologize for my part in it but I really hate someone twisting my words and that is done frequently by some people.

Yes it is. I don't understand why people can't debate without anger.

:)

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


Yes it is. I don't understand why people can't debate without anger.

:)


I don't either. :shrug:

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by Watership Down



I apologize for my part in it but I really hate someone twisting my words and that is done frequently by some people.

Yep....can't take the bait.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


Yep....can't take the bait.



One of these days I'll sit on my hands and stay on them. :D

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Jacob

Because they think they have the right to dictate to others and get their noses bent out of shape when they don't get their way.

Like Mrs Twitty does. Same misplaced sense of entitlement.


It's ridiculous. None of us know anyone involved in this case and are just anonymous people posting on a messageboard. We should be able to discuss this case without all the grief we get. The saying "if you can't hang with the big dogs stay off the porch" fits this board to a tee.

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by Watership Down



It's ridiculous. None of us know anyone involved in this case and are just anonymous people posting on a messageboard. We should be able to discuss this case without all the grief we get. The saying "if you can't hang with the big dogs stay off the porch" fits this board to a tee.

Well I mean how many of the "Joran supporters" have ever tried to say Beth was guilty of murder......but someone tried to compare us to those that accused John and Patsy Ramsey......

I can't even say what I think about that.......

Yep...I will admit I claim and think there is more than enough proof to show that Beth isn't trustworthy........

but I see all the theories against J2K with no proof......but if someone says anyone in MB may have done anything......it's wrong.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
As long as people can insult a poster they don't have to respond to a question.

MOO

Hi Luke .... I'm just catching up with the board .... but this is certainly an astute point.

JMO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Too bad the hyena had been banned because this really deserves one. Months??? ROFLMAO

WD .... As I've said before, those who constantly obsess about what they term "hate sites" on THIS board .... I'm convinced they spend more time there than the members do.

I visited a "pro family" site ONCE. I was probably there about 5 minutes, and I received the most vile ((to use Paula's word)) PM. It was a revelation to me. Someone ((who posted regularly on THIS board)) who could send a PM like that to ANYONE, certainly didn't have any "love" or "compassion" in their heart.

I consider myself a rather "benign" poster. The strange thing about all this was .... I hadn't even POSTED anything. They recognized my name .... figured they knew where I was coming from .... and figured they didn't want to know what I had to say.

Some talk about "compassion" .... some wouldn't recognize it if it slapped them in the face .... even though they DO post roses.

JMO

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


Well I mean how many of the "Joran supporters" have ever tried to say Beth was guilty of murder......but someone tried to compare us to those that accused John and Patsy Ramsey......

I can't even say what I think about that.......

Yep...I will admit I claim and think there is more than enough proof to show that Beth isn't trustworthy........

but I see all the theories against J2K with no proof......but if someone says anyone in MB may have done anything......it's wrong.
I've posted this before, but no one commented on it.

I visit only one other site, and very rarely at that. Every time someone there posts about Beth's "paid posters" I have to chuckle, but what's been happening on this board lately really makes me wonder.

We have a few posters who are out of touch with reality, but there are also a few who are so nasty, and so malicious who go out of there way to twist other people's words, and who have nothing of substance to offer, I'm starting to wonder what their agenda really is.

[court~critic1®]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I've posted this before, but no one commented on it.

I visit only one other site, and very rarely at that. Every time someone there posts about Beth's "paid posters" I have to chuckle, but what's been happening on this board lately really makes me wonder.

We have a few posters who are out of touch with reality, but there are also a few who are so nasty, and so malicious who go out of there way to twist other people's words, and who have nothing of substance to offer, I'm starting to wonder what their agenda really is.


IMOHOO I believe their agenda is to get this board shut down permently. What a shame! I also believe they will accomplish this.

:mad:

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by court~critic1®



IMOHOO I believe their agenda is to get this board shut down permently. What a shame! I also believe they will accomplish this.

:mad:

cc .... I think you're right!! There are people who have visited the NH forum since the beginning, who are REALLY interested in discussing the case. This is just MY opinion, but I think some of them are disturbed by FH20's moderation of the board. They seem to be upset that ALL sides of this issue can be discussed, INCLUDING Beth's very damaging statements.

There's not many ways one can TWIST her statements .... they're right there, in black and white.

JMO

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by court~critic1®



IMOHOO I believe their agenda is to get this board shut down permently.
<snip>
But why? If they do that everyone will gravitate to the one sided boards, and what will they have accomplished?

[Xainia]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

But why? If they do that everyone will gravitate to the one sided boards, and what will they have accomplished?

Some have been very clear about the fact that they post on a board elsewhere.

It is not one of the ones usually mentioned here.
Tis another board.

By getting this board closed they can post away happily over at that board of theirs. Knowing they have cut you guys off here.

This is the ONLY board they have any sort of influence about whether is stands or falls.

MO

Xainia

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

But why? If they do that everyone will gravitate to the one sided boards, and what will they have accomplished?

I agree with you, Gregor. It will accomplish nothing.

Diversity of opinions is what promotes discussion/debate. I believe posters who visit the CTV boards KNOW that. In fact, SOME posters declare their dislike for THIS board, and some of the opinions expressed .... yet they keep posting. They keep alluding to the fact that "good posters" have LEFT this forum. I'm assuming, when they say that, they are referring to posters who definitely support the "family". They interpret criticism as "hating", which is just unfortunate.

I'm hoping FH20 will see through it all, and recognize SOME posters for what they are .... "master baiters" .... ;)

JMO

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by Xainia


Some have been very clear about the fact that they post on a board elsewhere.

It is not one of the ones usually mentioned here.
Tis another board.

By getting this board closed they can post away happily over at that board of theirs. Knowing they have cut you guys off here.

This is the ONLY board they have any sort of influence about whether is stands or falls.

MO

Xainia
I don't think any of us care what they post on their "secret" board. They're just preaching to the choir there.

They've done a pretty good job of promoting at least one board here that's primarily anti-Beth.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Xainia


<<SNIP>>
This is the ONLY board they have any sort of influence about whether is stands or falls.

MO

Xainia

What a GREAT point this is, Xainia ....

JMO

[court~critic1®]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


cc .... I think you're right!! There are people who have visited the NH forum since the beginning, who are REALLY interested in discussing the case. This is just MY opinion, but I think some of them are disturbed by FH20's moderation of the board. They seem to be upset that ALL sides of this issue can be discussed, INCLUDING Beth's very damaging statements.

There's not many ways one can TWIST her statements .... they're right there, in black and white.

JMO



ITA FM.....If you remember in the begining of this board last year. No one was allowed to post anything or opnions about the Twittys. Periodl. NOTHING except praises. These posters,Twitty fans, were in "hog heaven" IMOO. Now that all is allowed their own personall opins these people do not want such a board.

IMOO it seem as though they do not want any truths to come out. It is so much better when we can discuss both sides without all the anger. O course this is my observations and opin only.

Have a safe one!

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


I agree with you, Gregor. It will accomplish nothing.

Diversity of opinions is what promotes discussion/debate. I believe posters who visit the CTV boards KNOW that. In fact, SOME posters declare their dislike for THIS board, and some of the opinions expressed .... yet they keep posting. They keep alluding to the fact that "good posters" have LEFT this forum. I'm assuming, when they say that, they are referring to posters who definitely support the "family". They interpret criticism as "hating", which is just unfortunate.

I'm hoping FH20 will see through it all, and recognize SOME posters for what they are .... "master baiters" .... ;)

JMO
One thing I don't understand is how some posters can completely ignore reality and get so emotionally invested in someone else's life that it borders on being unhealthy.

We used to have at least one poster here who kept saying anyone who questioned Joran's guilt had to be a criminal or had children who were criminals.

I hate to be as closed minded as she was, but I sometime wonder if some of the most passionate Beth supporters view themselves as victims.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


I agree with you, Gregor. It will accomplish nothing.

Diversity of opinions is what promotes discussion/debate. I believe posters who visit the CTV boards KNOW that. In fact, SOME posters declare their dislike for THIS board, and some of the opinions expressed .... yet they keep posting. They keep alluding to the fact that "good posters" have LEFT this forum. I'm assuming, when they say that, they are referring to posters who definitely support the "family". They interpret criticism as "hating", which is just unfortunate.

I'm hoping FH20 will see through it all, and recognize SOME posters for what they are .... "master baiters" .... ;)

JMO


D'OH! :eek:

lol
Fair, I was catching up the last couple of pages and saw all the ugliness, I just wated to thank you for being a thoughtful, considerate poster. Even though we are on different sides in this case, I have never seen you try to be blatantly rude or bait anyone in such a way that could hurt this board or get anyone banned. just wanted to let you know. However this case turns out in the end You have been a very cool debater. OK enough nice! I still disagree with ya:D

[feelings]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

One thing I don't understand is how some posters can completely ignore reality and get so emotionally invested in someone else's life that it borders on being unhealthy.

We used to have at least one poster here who kept saying anyone who questioned Joran's guilt had to be a criminal or had children who were criminals.

I hate to be as closed minded as she was, but I sometime wonder if some of the most passionate Beth supporters view themselves as victims.
your first statement points at anyone who posts here including you.

The rest sounds like a very old fashioned mind game. Like Freud's suppression of the seduction theory.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


I agree with you, Gregor. It will accomplish nothing.

Diversity of opinions is what promotes discussion/debate. I believe posters who visit the CTV boards KNOW that. In fact, SOME posters declare their dislike for THIS board, and some of the opinions expressed .... yet they keep posting. They keep alluding to the fact that "good posters" have LEFT this forum. I'm assuming, when they say that, they are referring to posters who definitely support the "family". They interpret criticism as "hating", which is just unfortunate.

I'm hoping FH20 will see through it all, and recognize SOME posters for what they are .... "master baiters" .... ;)

JMO



Excellent post FM#1.

[dinojen]

Interesting evening last night... must say... funny how some stories in the news automatically get brought into the Holloway conversation... kind of lost on that topic last night.. but then there is always alot of strange goings on around here...

Thanks on the heads up on all those carb and sugar free sodas.. I'm sure my monitor will appreciate it..

BBL.. gotta actually do some work this morning... PLAY NICE KIDLETS...;)

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by feelings

your first statement points at anyone who posts here including you.

The rest sounds like a very old fashioned mind game. Like Freud's suppression of the seduction theory.
As to your first statement, I'm not emotionally invested in anyone's life but my own.

If your confusing my belief that no one should be condemned without evidence with being personally involved with Joran's or any other suspect's life, you need a refresher course in Logic 101.

As to your second remark, you obviously need a refresher course in Psychology 101.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Heyes



D'OH! :eek:

lol
Fair, I was catching up the last couple of pages and saw all the ugliness, I just wated to thank you for being a thoughtful, considerate poster. Even though we are on different sides in this case, I have never seen you try to be blatantly rude or bait anyone in such a way that could hurt this board or get anyone banned. just wanted to let you know. However this case turns out in the end You have been a very cool debater. OK enough nice! I still disagree with ya:D

LOL Heyes .... I know you disagree with me, but that's all good!!

That's the whole idea .... we CAN disagree, but still be respectful towards each other. It's when the discussion gets personal, that it tends to become nasty.

JMO

[Watership Down]

O/T press conference about JonBenet Ramsey case about to start on Fox News.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


The wording of the poster implied that Beth believed Natalee had the freedom to call her if she so desired. Kidnaped persons seldom have free access to a telephone.

:) And then she went on the Aruban air waves and told Natalee they could work it out and to please call her. It wasn't until a day or later the posters were changed to KIDNAPPED just so they would get more attention, per Marcia.

And kidnappers don't drive by 3 times and then STOP in front of the group of people their kidnap victim was hanging with. Nothing like a fast clean get away whilst all the MB children were confused and disorientated after the sudden and unexpected closing of CnC's.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by nascarmom
And then she went on the Aruban air waves and told Natalee they could work it out and to please call her. It wasn't until a day or later the posters were changed to KIDNAPPED just so they would get more attention, per Marcia.

And kidnappers don't drive by 3 times and then STOP in front of the group of people their kidnap victim was hanging with. Nothing like a fast clean get away whilst all the MB children were confused and disorientated after the sudden and unexpected closing of CnC's.
I'll tell you another thing that has always bothered me.

Beth and Jug may live in MB, but I have never seen anything to make me believe they were very well connected.

I think they and the Fab 7 were MB's wannabees.

What bothers me is that in a few hours they could arrange the use of a jet and assemble a posse. Frankly, I just don't buy it.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I'll tell you another thing that has always bothered me.

Beth and Jug may live in MB, but I have never seen anything to make me believe they were very well connected.

I think they and the Fab 7 were MB's wannabees.

What bothers me is that in a few hours they could arrange the use of a jet and assemble a posse. Frankly, I just don't buy it. Nor do I.

Seems odd that Paulus is deemed 'connected' in Aruba, yet his 'connections' can't keep him from being arrested and detained. Yet the mom and coaching step-dad of the girl who has vanished are able to charter a private jet at the drop of a hat - not to mention the rubbing elbows with political figures all the way up to the Secy of State.

I see the way Jug acts and the fact he has 'heated' discussions at seemingly regular intervals and I have to wonder just what kind of people inhabit Mountain Brook that Jug would need to coach anyone on how to fit in and live there.

And I have never understood why all those people went to Aruba in the first place :shrug:

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Nor do I.

Seems odd that Paulus is deemed 'connected' in Aruba, yet his 'connections' can't keep him from being arrested and detained. Yet the mom and coaching step-dad of the girl who has vanished are able to charter a private jet at the drop of a hat - not to mention the rubbing elbows with political figures all the way up to the Secy of State.

I see the way Jug acts and the fact he has 'heated' discussions at seemingly regular intervals and I have to wonder just what kind of people inhabit Mountain Brook that Jug would need to coach anyone on how to fit in and live there.

And I have never understood why all those people went to Aruba in the first place :shrug:


Shoot I've never figured out why all those people went on the honeymoon. :shrug:

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Hi Luke .... I'm just catching up with the board .... but this is certainly an astute point.

JMO Thank you FM#1. It fascinates me how a question can go unanswered for several pages while posters debate the proper way to ask a question. Or a simple question becomes bait.

Someone said we are people who don't know the people in the case or each other. I'm not so sure. I think some of the passionate people may be involved in some way.


MOO

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Nor do I.

Seems odd that Paulus is deemed 'connected' in Aruba, yet his 'connections' can't keep him from being arrested and detained. Yet the mom and coaching step-dad of the girl who has vanished are able to charter a private jet at the drop of a hat - not to mention the rubbing elbows with political figures all the way up to the Secy of State.

I see the way Jug acts and the fact he has 'heated' discussions at seemingly regular intervals and I have to wonder just what kind of people inhabit Mountain Brook that Jug would need to coach anyone on how to fit in and live there.

And I have never understood why all those people went to Aruba in the first place :shrug:
Has it been established that G. Ruffner Page, the president of McWane Industries was a member of the posse? This guy is on the Boards of the Alabama Symphony and the Birmingham Museum of Art. I just don't see him and his wife having much in common with Beth and Jug.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I've posted this before, but no one commented on it.

<snip> Perhaps others don't find it relevant.

MOO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Shoot I've never figured out why all those people went on the honeymoon. :shrug: That's rather ummm.....odd...

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Has it been established that G. Ruffner Page, the president of McWane Industries was a member of the posse? This guy is on the Boards of the Alabama Symphony and the Birmingham Museum of Art. I just don't see him and his wife having much in common with Beth and Jug. TAYLOR FLADGATE posted a list of who was on the jet, but I can't find it and can't remember the names.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by nascarmom
TAYLOR FLADGATE posted a list of who was on the jet, but I can't find it and can't remember the names.
I don't know if that's the same list I saw, but the list I saw was just speculation.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Has it been established that G. Ruffner Page, the president of McWane Industries was a member of the posse? This guy is on the Boards of the Alabama Symphony and the Birmingham Museum of Art. I just don't see him and his wife having much in common with Beth and Jug. It has been reported by several sources that G. Ruffner Page was on the plane and went to the VDS residence.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I don't know if that's the same list I saw, but the list I saw was just speculation. Did that list speculate Page's daughter was on the trip?

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
It has been reported by several sources that G. Ruffner Page was on the plane and went to the VDS residence.

MOO
If you read his bio on the McWane website it just seems to be out of character for him to be part of the raiding party.

I wonder if he was one of the witnesses who, according to Beth, gave statements to a judge in Alabama.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Did that list speculate Page's daughter was on the trip?
I believe so, but that's not accurate is it?

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I believe so, but that's not accurate is it? If accurate, that might explain the connection. Or perhaps Page is a sports fan and Jug's son plays football on a college team.


MOO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I believe so, but that's not accurate is it? Virginia Page is not related? :shrug:

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I believe so, but that's not accurate is it? Virginia Page (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/44d06f3a68.jpg)

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

If you read his bio on the McWane website it just seems to be out of character for him to be part of the raiding party.

I wonder if he was one of the witnesses who, according to Beth, gave statements to a judge in Alabama. Well that judge must not have done a very good job because those statements weren't included in the civil suit filing.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Virginia Page (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/44d06f3a68.jpg)
Is there a bio to go with the picture?

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Well that judge must not have done a very good job because those statements weren't included in the civil suit filing.

I agree with you, nm. Where WAS all this "stuff" when they filed that civil suit?? I mean, this was supposed to be their last chance for both justice, and answers ??:shrug:

JMO

[feelings]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

As to your first statement, I'm not emotionally invested in anyone's life but my own.

If your confusing my belief that no one should be condemned without evidence with being personally involved with Joran's or any other suspect's life, you need a refresher course in Logic 101.

As to your second remark, you obviously need a refresher course in Psychology 101.
you seem to believe not being emotionally invested in anyone's life but your own is healthy. I disagree. Sounds like you were in a bad course. Sorry.

I have no interest in condemming anyone. IMO it´s foul to sit and just wait for officially certified CE. I am interested in solving problems, and don´t think people that believe in "no body, no case" are.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by feelings

you seem to believe not being emotionally invested in anyone's life but your own is healthy. I disagree. Sounds like you were in a bad course. Sorry.

I have no interest in condemming anyone. IMO it´s foul to sit and just wait for officially certified CE. I am interested in solving problems, and don´t think people that believe in "no body, no case" are. 'foul to sit'.....'officially certified ce'...?????.....:confused:

If you are so interested in 'solving problems' why is it that the court ruling there was no sufficient evidence to continue detainment and the letter from the Office of the Public Prosecutor stating there is no evidence a crime was committed are facts you seem to completely ignore?

And no one said "no body no case" except the media, so by your standard, they are not interested in solving any problems - a statement I completely agree with.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


I agree with you, nm. Where WAS all this "stuff" when they filed that civil suit?? I mean, this was supposed to be their last chance for both justice, and answers ??:shrug:

JMO They pretty much admitted the filing was fluff and done only in an attempt to get discovery with the HOPE the investigation file would be in there.

So much for JQK not risking his reputation filing something he had no proof of.

It would not have been their 'last chance' if Beth had followed the law and filed a compliant about the investigation she declared oh so shoddy with the higher courts. But she seems to be quite versed in creating her own blockades.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by feelings

you seem to believe not being emotionally invested in anyone's life but your own is healthy. I disagree. Sounds like you were in a bad course. Sorry.

I have no interest in condemming anyone. IMO it´s foul to sit and just wait for officially certified CE. I am interested in solving problems, and don´t think people that believe in "no body, no case" are.
What do you mean by "sounds you were in a bad course?"

We currently have another potential rush to judgment unfolding. I would like to see Jon Benet Ramsey's murderer found and convicted, but I'll wait until I see some evidence before I join John Karr's lynching party.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by nascarmom
They pretty much admitted the filing was fluff and done only in an attempt to get discovery with the HOPE the investigation file would be in there.

<snip>
I believe half of this statement is correct.

There's no question the filing was nothing but fluff, but I believe it was done in an attempt to influence public opinion and garner sympathy.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I believe half of this statement is correct.

There's no question the filing was nothing but fluff, but I believe it was done in an attempt to influence public opinion and garner sympathy. I can't disagree - look at all the media time the filing got. I really don't know how some of the THs kept a straight face reading it. It was like reading a reject for a Harlequin Romance novel. "The Predator" "The Nightmare" :rolleyes:

[court~critic1®]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

What do you mean by "sounds you were in a bad course?"

We currently have another potential rush to judgment unfolding. I would like to see Jon Benet Ramsey's murderer found and convicted, but I'll wait until I see some evidence before I join John Karr's lynching party.



I concur GB.........some of our Joran is Guilty fans are over on the Ramsey threads, all 67 of them, saying he is Guilty, guilty, guilty without any evidence also. Guess that is why there are so few of us on this thread. (smile)


Like you, I will have to wait and see before I join them. Just as I did when this case broke. I personally still believe in the IUPG thing.

Enjoy your evening.

[court~critic1®]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I believe half of this statement is correct.

There's no question the filing was nothing but fluff, but I believe it was done in an attempt to influence public opinion and garner sympathy.



.....and to fill up the "love bowls" anew.imoo

[cassidy]

Originally posted by court~critic1®




I concur GB.........some of our Joran is Guilty fans are over on the Ramsey threads, all 67 of them, saying he is Guilty, guilty, guilty without any evidence also. Guess that is why there are so few of us on this thread. (smile)


Like you, I will have to wait and see before I join them. Just as I did when this case broke. I personally still believe in the IUPG thing.

Enjoy your evening.

The Boulder DA agreed withyou (and me) also. She made a point of stressing the IUPG and how strongly she upholds that. Matter of fact, Mr Ramsey said essentially the same thing when he called for no rush to judgement. (paraphrased).

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I believe half of this statement is correct.

There's no question the filing was nothing but fluff, but I believe it was done in an attempt to influence public opinion and garner sympathy.

I think it was filed to revive media coverage, which had all but stopped at the time of the filing. IMHO

:)

[court~critic1®]

Originally posted by cassidy


The Boulder DA agreed withyou (and me) also. She made a point of stressing the IUPG and how strongly she upholds that. Matter of fact, Mr Ramsey said essentially the same thing when he called for no rush to judgement. (paraphrased).


I do hope John continues with this atitude and not become like BHT. Of course John doesn't need the " love bowls". (smile)


Stay safe!

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by feelings

you seem to believe not being emotionally invested in anyone's life but your own is healthy. I disagree. Sounds like you were in a bad course. Sorry.

I have no interest in condemming anyone. IMO it´s foul to sit and just wait for officially certified CE. I am interested in solving problems, and don´t think people that believe in "no body, no case" are. What do you do when you solve the problem?

[feelings]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

What do you mean by "sounds you were in a bad course?"

We currently have another potential rush to judgment unfolding. I would like to see Jon Benet Ramsey's murderer found and convicted, but I'll wait until I see some evidence before I join John Karr's lynching party.
I thought you understood the significance of context.

Do you think there are the same two parties fighting in other cases as well?

[feelings]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
What do you do when you solve the problem?
I can tell you how I feel - happy - but not what I do.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by feelings

I thought you understood the significance of context.

Do you think there are the same two parties fighting in other cases as well?
I have to admit you have a way of completely befuddling me.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

I have to admit you have a way of completely befuddling me.

Hmmmm, Gregor .... I have to admit, I'm a little befuddled myself.

JMO

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
It has been reported by several sources that G. Ruffner Page was on the plane and went to the VDS residence.

MOO

Maybe he knows Charles Croes. :o


moo

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by forensicpsy

Maybe he knows Charles Croes. :o

moo
Somebody the Twittys know knows Croes.

[paralegallin]

Originally posted by No Nic


I wish I could use it for this post myself. :D Haven't seen ANYTHING appropriate posted from "your side" in 14+ months.

I'm done with you kiddies tonight. Have fun amongst yourselves, you're all ya' got. :tongue:

Wait, does that mean that you feel that anyone that is on "the other side" is always inappropriate?

I find that remark very insulting to be quite honest. Just because one does not share your own personal opinions, does not make them inappropriate.

There are many good posters on both sides that do not feel the need to take pot shots at the other posters, or do things that are "inappropriate" in my eyes.

Why did you have to designate it to be from "the other side"? Do you feel that those on the side that feel J2K are guilty, are completely innocent in ever ganging up on another poster, or making snide comments?

Whatever way you look at it, I feel your post was biased and was uncalled for.

MOO

[Narcissist15]

Paralegallin....I deleted my last post.....

I think Freshwater will deal with it accordingly.......

[Luke Davis]

G. Ruffner Page aka Gene Ruffner Page is married to Virginia Page and have three daughters.

MOO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
G. Ruffner Page aka Gene Ruffner Page is married to Virginia Page and have three daughters.

MOO So there is more than one Virginia Page :confused:

[paralegallin]

Originally posted by Narcissist15
Paralegallin....I deleted my last post.....

I think Freshwater will deal with it accordingly.......

eep, it was too late to delete mine, however I feel my post was not insulting to No Nic, I was merely expressing my opinion of her post.

*sighs* I will either get in trouble or not via FW

thank you, however

:)

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Somebody the Twittys know knows Croes. A major friend of Croes.

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by paralegallin


eep, it was too late to delete mine, however I feel my post was not insulting to No Nic, I was merely expressing my opinion of her post.

*sighs* I will either get in trouble or not via FW

thank you, however

:)

I understand, and I wasn't saying that you were insulting anyone.

[paralegallin]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


I understand, and I wasn't saying that you were insulting anyone.

Oh oh I know..lol wasn't trying to say you said I was. I was just posting that for general clear up. LOL

Perhaps I ought to stop now before I end up doing more damage than good.

:tongue:

[No Nic]

Renfro said police arrested the black guards "because the three boys pointed their fingers at these two security guards , and they couldn't leave that out of the loop. There was no reason to believe the boys were lying."

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/15/aruba.arrests/index.html

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by paralegallin


eep, it was too late to delete mine, however I feel my post was not insulting to No Nic, I was merely expressing my opinion of her post.

*sighs* I will either get in trouble or not via FW

thank you, however

:)


I apologized for my part in last nights posts. I just really hate having my words twisted. Last time they did it they twisted it to sound like I was saying only ugly people deserve to be raped. :cuss:

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic
Renfro said police arrested the black guards "because the three boys pointed their fingers at these two security guards , and they couldn't leave that out of the loop. There was no reason to believe the boys were lying."

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/15/aruba.arrests/index.html


Let me guess...today is a day when what Julia says is the absolute truth? :rolleyes:

[No Nic]

RUBEN TRAPENBERG, SPOKESPERSON FOR THE ARUBAN GOVERNMENT: No, he just gave you an explanation of that possibility. That is possible at this point, but if the investigation has led to these three guys, the chance for them being released at this point I think is very, very small. Remember, that these three boys point the finger at the two former guys or indicated that it might have been them. That‘s why the arrests were made on them.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8288005/

[paralegallin]

Originally posted by Watership Down



I apologized for my part in last nights posts. I just really hate having my words twisted. Last time they did it they twisted it to sound like I was saying only ugly people deserve to be raped. :cuss:

I recall that and felt it was the dumbest thing I had seen in a long while. I understood where you were coming from with your post last night. You were merely pointing out that the only time you see a missing poster with a child and an adult in it, is in the case where the child was abducted by that parent in the picture.

You were NOT saying that this was the case, merely using it for an example because most other missing adult pictures contain only the picture of the missing person, so people do not get confused to who exactly is missing.

I am not sure how that became what it was twisted around to be, unless it was done on purpose. I know where my thoughts lie on that matter, but I won't say, cuz I am nice (at times..hehe)

moo

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by No Nic
RUBEN TRAPENBERG, SPOKESPERSON FOR THE ARUBAN GOVERNMENT: No, he just gave you an explanation of that possibility. That is possible at this point, but if the investigation has led to these three guys, the chance for them being released at this point I think is very, very small. Remember, that these three boys point the finger at the two former guys or indicated that it might have been them. That‘s why the arrests were made on them.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8288005/

No Nic, what is your theory as to why ALE decided to arrest these two SGs? J2K gave a generic description and no names, yet ALE zeroed in on these two.

:shrug:

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


No Nic, what is your theory as to why ALE decided to arrest these two SGs? J2K gave a generic description and no names, yet ALE zeroed in on these two.

:shrug:

Remember, that these three boys point the finger at the two former guys or indicated that it might have been them. That‘s why the arrests were made on them.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8288005/

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by paralegallin


I recall that and felt it was the dumbest thing I had seen in a long while. I understood where you were coming from with your post last night. You were merely pointing out that the only time you see a missing poster with a child and an adult in it, is in the case where the child was abducted by that parent in the picture.

You were NOT saying that this was the case, merely using it for an example because most other missing adult pictures contain only the picture of the missing person, so people do not get confused to who exactly is missing.

I am not sure how that became what it was twisted around to be, unless it was done on purpose. I know where my thoughts lie on that matter, but I won't say, cuz I am nice (at times..hehe)

moo


Thank you. That was exactly the point I was trying to make. I try to be nice but it is so hard to do on here most days. :)

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic


Remember, that these three boys point the finger at the two former guys or indicated that it might have been them. That‘s why the arrests were made on them.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8288005/


We have seen the statements. Deepak said one security guard and described a man in dark clothing with a walkie talkie. There is no way to take from that and come up with two specific people.

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Thank you. That was exactly the point I was trying to make. I try to be nice but it is so hard to do on here most days. :)

Yep......I was just thinking maybe when someone does something such as that.......

we should have something like the "Bat Signal" to mark the post........of course we would call it the "Freshwater Signal"......

then Freshwater could come to the rescue. ;)

ETA....of course it wouldn't be biased.......anyone could use it.....no matter what "side" :)

ETA.....sorry Freshwater......that was O/T and a bad idea.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


Yep......I was just thinking maybe when someone does something such as that.......

we should have something like the "Bat Signal" to mark the post........of course we would call it the "Freshwater Signal"......

then Freshwater could come to the rescue. ;)

ETA....of course it wouldn't be biased.......anyone could use it.....no matter what "side" :)

ETA.....sorry Freshwater......that was O/T and a bad idea.


Yeah I don't think that would work too well. Some consider everything offensive and FW would get a workout with a feature like that. ;)

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


No Nic, what is your theory as to why ALE decided to arrest these two SGs? J2K gave a generic description and no names, yet ALE zeroed in on these two.

:shrug:

I think you're missing the main point, i.e., if J2K hadn't LIED, no SG's would have been arrested, generic or otherwise.

None of the SG's should have been zeroed in on because the story J2K told was a LIE.

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


I think you're missing the main point, i.e., if J2K hadn't LIED, no SG's would have been arrested, generic or otherwise.

None of the SG's should have been zeroed in on because the story J2K told was a LIE.

BINGO

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


I think you're missing the main point, i.e., if J2K hadn't LIED, no SG's would have been arrested, generic or otherwise.

None of the SG's should have been zeroed in on because the story J2K told was a LIE.

And you know this how exactly?.....

say J2K told the truth.......

and no evidence was found against them.....

this tip comes in anyway (since you and I don't know what the tip was).....and hypothetically it was a tip about these men having property belonging to the MB students.......

you know they would not have been arrested?

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


I think you're missing the main point, i.e., if J2K hadn't LIED, no SG's would have been arrested, generic or otherwise.

None of the SG's should have been zeroed in on because the story J2K told was a LIE.


You have no way of knowing that. Atleast one of those two sg's were known to LE for accosting female tourists. Over the course of the investigation they could have been arrested and questioned.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Watership Down



We have seen the statements. Deepak said one security guard and described a man in dark clothing with a walkie talkie. There is no way to take from that and come up with two specific people.

It makes no sense that 2 guys who weren't even employed at the time were arrested by ALE simply because J2K gave a generic description of who approached Natalee. :shrug:

And it's not like J2K had anything to do with their continued detainment since the lawyer decided to let them sit in jail for 6 days while ALE investigated instead of fighting the ruling to detain.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


And you know this how exactly?.....

say J2K told the truth.......

and no evidence was found against them.....

this tip comes in anyway (since you and I don't know what the tip was).....and hypothetically it was a tip about these men having property belonging to the MB students.......

you know they would not have been arrested?


Narc I posted a link sometime in the last few days showing one of those sg's were known to LE for accosting tourists. There is no way to know they wouldn't have been arrested at some point.

Here in the US when a child goes missing police look at known sex offenders. We have no way of knowing that ALE wouldn't have looked at people known to harass tourists.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by nascarmom


It makes no sense that 2 guys who weren't even employed at the time were arrested by ALE simply because J2K gave a generic description of who approached Natalee. :shrug:

And it's not like J2K had anything to do with their continued detainment since the lawyer decided to let them sit in jail for 6 days while ALE investigated instead of fighting the ruling to detain.


I agree. I think ALE went to these two because of previous complaints about them. Then when they got there they saw stolen items and arrested them for that which explains why neither have tried to be released as suspects.

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by No Nic


BINGO

Hi NN!

Even from the links you posted, it is clear that J2K not only misled this investigation, but actually intentionally led it in the wrong and specific direction.

Trapenberg and Renfro both stated that the SG's were arrested ONLY because J2K LIED, and ALE believed them, taking them at their word, causing the SG's to be arrested.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


I think you're missing the main point, i.e., if J2K hadn't LIED, no SG's would have been arrested, generic or otherwise.

None of the SG's should have been zeroed in on because the story J2K told was a LIE.

How do you know who would and would not have been arrested? Got a link to back this statement of fact?

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Narc I posted a link sometime in the last few days showing one of those sg's were known to LE for accosting tourists. There is no way to know they wouldn't have been arrested at some point.

Here in the US when a child goes missing police look at known sex offenders. We have no way of knowing that ALE wouldn't have looked at people known to harass tourists.

The lie was wrong......

going along with the lie was wrong.....

I have brought up Ray Krone in the past.......I didn't hear about how the police, prosecutor, and the dental expert should be held accountable for that lie.....and Ray Krone spent many years in prison...not just a few days. I heard excuses.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


The lie was wrong......

going along with the lie was wrong.....

I have brought up Ray Krone in the past.......I didn't hear about how the police, prosecutor, and the dental expert should be held accountable for that lie.....and Ray Krone spent many years in prison...not just a few days. I heard excuses.


I have just a vague memory of Crone. I recall him being discussed during SP but no specifics.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Hi NN!

Even from the links you posted, it is clear that J2K not only misled this investigation, but actually intentionally led it in the wrong and specific direction.

Trapenberg and Renfro both stated that the SG's were arrested ONLY because J2K LIED, and ALE believed them, taking them on their word, causing the SG's to be arrested.


Acting on a tip, police on Sunday arrested Jones and John in the oil-refining town of San Nicolas...

...Lejuez told CNN he has not seen any forensic evidence. What he has seen, he said, includes statements from "certain witnesses who have seen certain people" who might be the two men. But none of those witnesses, he said, confirmed seeing Holloway with the men...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/08/missing.teen/index.html

So no eyewitness statements putting the arrested SGs with Natalee, so how again did J2K 'frame' them?

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


I think you're missing the main point, i.e., if J2K hadn't LIED, no SG's would have been arrested, generic or otherwise.

None of the SG's should have been zeroed in on because the story J2K told was a LIE.

EXACTLY!!

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


I think you're missing the main point, i.e., if J2K hadn't LIED, no SG's would have been arrested, generic or otherwise.

None of the SG's should have been zeroed in on because the story J2K told was a LIE.

Some posters believe that ALE had reason to suspect these two SG's. There must be hundreds if SGs working in Aruba, I am simply asking why people with a different view think these two were arrested.



:)

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Hi NN!

Even from the links you posted, it is clear that J2K not only misled this investigation, but actually intentionally led it in the wrong and specific direction.

Trapenberg and Renfro both stated that the SG's were arrested ONLY because J2K LIED, and ALE believed them, taking them at their word, causing the SG's to be arrested.

You would be correct, Paula. We could post 1000 statements from the Arubans themselves that clearly prove JK2 were the cause of these 2 arrests and they would still be disbelieved by the ones that refuse to see. Even when RENFRO is quoted, and we know she is a hero to some. lol

imo

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by Watership Down



I have just a vague memory of Crone. I recall him being discussed during SP but no specifics.

I'll PM you a link....please read the article when you have the chance.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


I'll PM you a link....please read the article when you have the chance.


Thanks. I will.


Julia Renfroe is a reporter. As we are seeing in the JBR case right now and others in the past they don't always get it right.

I'm saving time and replying to two posts at once. :tongue:

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


Some posters believe that ALE had reason to suspect these two SG's. There must be hundreds if SGs working in Aruba, I am simply asking why people with a different view think these two were arrested.



:) Because the MEDIA told them J2K pointed their fingers at them and caused their arrest and the MEDIA would never gets anything wrong and what the MEDIA says is used in place of common sense :)

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


You would be correct, Paula. We could post 1000 statements from the Arubans themselves that clearly prove JK2 were the cause of these 2 arrests and they would still be disbelieved by the ones that refuse to see. Even when RENFRO is quoted, and we know she is a hero to some. lol

imo "clearly prove"....LMAO.....

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Thanks. I will.


Julia Renfroe is a reporter. As we are seeing in the JBR case right now and others in the past they don't always get it right.

I'm saving time and replying to two posts at once. :tongue:


:eek: Julia didn't get it right?

I agree there has been nothing right about Julia Renfro personally inserting herself in this case.

imo

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic



:eek: Julia didn't get it right?

I agree there has been nothing right about Julia Renfro personally inserting herself in this case.

imo



Well I'm sure she will think twice before she stops the presses to help another American.

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


Some posters believe that ALE had reason to suspect these two SG's. There must be hundreds if SGs working in Aruba, I am simply asking why people with a different view think these two were arrested.


:)

Do "hundreds" of SG's work at the HI?

[No Nic]

Originally posted by nascarmom
"clearly prove"....LMAO.....


Since the board has been pretty much dead for you guys today, I thought maybe you had realized why no one was here. Since you have immediately started with the twisting and rudeness again tonight.........the rest of us will continue to leave you on your own. Have fun.



:seeya:

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Watership Down




Well I'm sure she will think twice before she stops the presses to help another hateful American.

Yeah, I was kinda hoping she wouldn't offer her help to another American either! I mean really, with friends like that..........:)

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Do "hundreds" of SG's work at the HI?

They didn't work at the HI did they?

ETA....notice that Unperson said Aruba...not HI :)

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Watership Down




Well I'm sure she will think twice before she stops the presses to help another hateful American.
Naaaw, she will not hold the horrid way the Twitty's treated her against anyone else, she is better than that.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic



Since the board has been pretty much dead for you guys today, I thought maybe you had realized why no one was here. Since you have immediately started with the twisting and rudeness again tonight.........the rest of us will continue to leave you on your own. Have fun.



*screams with laughter*

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Do "hundreds" of SG's work at the HI? :confused: Is the HI the only hotel or business employing security guards on the entire island of Aruba? :confused:

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by nascarmom
*screams with laughter*

Considering I was gone all day.....I didn't notice

LOL

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


They didn't work at the HI did they?

ETA....notice that Unperson said Aruba...not HI :)



No they didn't. ;)

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by No Nic



Since the board has been pretty much dead for you guys today, I thought maybe you had realized why no one was here. Since you have immediately started with the twisting and rudeness again tonight.........the rest of us will continue to leave you on your own. Have fun.



:seeya:


I didn't really care why no one was posting. It was peaceful for a change.

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by Watership Down




No they didn't. ;)

So going with Unperson's post......

They didn't work at the HI......

There are hundreds of SGs working on Aruba....


why those two.......what did J2K say that would point the finger at those two guards....that didn't work at the HI and there being hundreds of SGs working on Aruba....

Sorry to be redundant.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Heyes


Yeah, I was kinda hoping she wouldn't offer her help to another American either! I mean really, with friends like that..........:)


Yes...stab friends like in the back with calls for boycotts. That will show them!!! :rolleyes:

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


I think you're missing the main point, i.e., if J2K hadn't LIED, no SG's would have been arrested, generic or otherwise.

None of the SG's should have been zeroed in on because the story J2K told was a LIE. If that is true and it may well be. Why are they still suspect?

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


So going with Unperson's post......

They didn't work at the HI......

There are hundreds of SGs working on Aruba....


why those two.......what did J2K say that would point the finger at those two guards....that didn't work at the HI and there being hundreds of SGs working on Aruba....

Sorry to be redundant.


Hmmm could it be that those two were known for harassing tourists? Nah...it couldn't be something THAT simple.

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Do "hundreds" of SG's work at the HI?

No, but neither did the two who were arrested.

:)

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Watership Down



You have no way of knowing that. Atleast one of those two sg's were known to LE for accosting female tourists. Over the course of the investigation they could have been arrested and questioned. If the sole reason the SGs were detained was false evidence by J2k, they would not be suspects just as Paulus is not a suspect once it was proved people bore false witness.

MOO

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
If that is true and it may well be. Why are they still suspect?

because they probably can't afford to go back to court to get cleared. Like paulus could. they will just have to wait the 2 years out.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


Hi NN!

Even from the links you posted, it is clear that J2K not only misled this investigation, but actually intentionally led it in the wrong and specific direction.

Trapenberg and Renfro both stated that the SG's were arrested ONLY because J2K LIED, and ALE believed them, taking them at their word, causing the SG's to be arrested. If they were detained solely because of J2K, they should no longer be suspects.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by nascarmom



Acting on a tip, police on Sunday arrested Jones and John in the oil-refining town of San Nicolas...

...Lejuez told CNN he has not seen any forensic evidence. What he has seen, he said, includes statements from "certain witnesses who have seen certain people" who might be the two men. But none of those witnesses, he said, confirmed seeing Holloway with the men...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/08/missing.teen/index.html

So no eyewitness statements putting the arrested SGs with Natalee, so how again did J2K 'frame' them? I think the prosecuter knows the truth and has so acted.

MOO

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


So going with Unperson's post......

They didn't work at the HI......

There are hundreds of SGs working on Aruba....


why those two.......what did J2K say that would point the finger at those two guards....that didn't work at the HI and there being hundreds of SGs working on Aruba....

Sorry to be redundant.


I don't think we're going to get an answer.

:)

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
If the sole reason the SGs were detained was false evidence by J2k, they would not be suspects just as Paulus is not a suspect once it was proved people bore false witness.

MOO


Exactly. Part of Paulus' award was for attorney fees. The sg's could probably find a way to get an attorney to handle the case for them. They had no problem finding one when they were in jail with no prospects of money coming in at the end.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


You would be correct, Paula. We could post 1000 statements from the Arubans themselves that clearly prove JK2 were the cause of these 2 arrests and they would still be disbelieved by the ones that refuse to see. Even when RENFRO is quoted, and we know she is a hero to some. lol

imo Assuming that the two SGs were detained as you say. What if they spilled the beans while detained? They are still suspects for a reason.

MOO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Heyes


because they probably can't afford to go back to court to get cleared. Like paulus could. they will just have to wait the 2 years out. Nope.

Their lawyer didn't even fight the ruling to hold them. Gregor posted the link. Blows their claim of unjust detention right out of the water.

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by Unperson1984



I don't think we're going to get an answer.

:)

I don't want to speak for you.....

but that is what I thought the intent of your post was.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Hmmm could it be that those two were known for harassing tourists? Nah...it couldn't be something THAT simple. Could it be they buried Natalee?

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Unperson1984



I don't think we're going to get an answer.

:)

They worked at the nearby Hotel Allegro, but neither John nor Jones worked that night, and that might be why they were arrested.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Heyes


because they probably can't afford to go back to court to get cleared. Like paulus could. they will just have to wait the 2 years out. Paulus was award court fees. If the SGs were innocent wouldn't their lawyer fees be paid?

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Exactly. Part of Paulus' award was for attorney fees. The sg's could probably find a way to get an attorney to handle the case for them. They had no problem finding one when they were in jail with no prospects of money coming in at the end. Or if it was so clear as some say, the prosecuter could release them from being suspects.

MOO

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
G. Ruffner Page aka Gene Ruffner Page is married to Virginia Page and have three daughters.

MOO

Is Page the major friend of Charles Croes?

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by forensicpsy


Is Page the major friend of Charles Croes? Don't know.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


They worked at the nearby Hotel Allegro, but neither John nor Jones worked that night, and that might be why they were arrested.

IMO I thought you said they were arrested because J2K pointed their fingers at them :shrug:

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


They worked at the nearby Hotel Allegro, but neither John nor Jones worked that night, and that might be why they were arrested.

IMO

That might be why......

yes it might be......

but did J2K say that it might be some SG's that weren't working that night?

How do you make the connection that J2K fingered those 2 SG's?

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by No Nic



Since the board has been pretty much dead for you guys today, I thought maybe you had realized why no one was here. Since you have immediately started with the twisting and rudeness again tonight.........the rest of us will continue to leave you on your own. Have fun.



:seeya:

Oh Goodness, No Nic .... You're "boycotting" the board???? You're not serious ....

JMO

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


That might be why......

yes it might be......

but did J2K say that it might be some SG's that weren't working that night?

How do you make the connection that J2K fingered those 2 SG's?


Why would police arrest security guards who didn't work that night when they were looking for one who did work that night?

[forensicpsy]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Don't know.

Or does G. Ruffner Page know Lincoln Gomez, head of Digicel/Aruba and law partner of Andy Bikker?

Could Gomez or Bikker be the major friend?


moo

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


Oh Goodness, No Nic .... You're "boycotting" the board???? You're not serious ....

JMO She's a spokesperson for a whole group too :D

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Why would police arrest security guards who didn't work that night when they were looking for one who did work that night? Because J2K pointed their fingers at them, the MEDIA links say so!!!

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Because J2K pointed their fingers at them, the MEDIA links say so!!!


ROFLMAO

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


They worked at the nearby Hotel Allegro, but neither John nor Jones worked that night, and that might be why they were arrested.

IMO

Why would ALE chose to arrest two men who couldn't have been the ones J2K claimed to have seen?

:confused:

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


I don't want to speak for you.....

but that is what I thought the intent of your post was.

I have a sister named Narcissist, and she's very bright too.

;)

[nascarmom]

More from Paulus' statement:

"I allow Joran to play the “Free Tournaments” but he is not allowed to play for real money in the casino."

Now if that's not living lawlessly off the land, I don't know what is.

[Gregor's Back]

Here's an interesting interview:

"GRACE: Well, does this man they claim that they saw approaching her at the hotel bear any resemblance to your client?

LEJUEZ: The fact that they are of the black color, skin color, may be a resemblance. Not otherwise. My client never wears a t-shirt.

GRACE: OK, that`s what I was going to ask you. Was that his type of security uniform? I know your guy was a security guard. What did his security uniform look like?

LEJUEZ: Black trousers with a white shirt, and sometimes he would wear a black or dark blue jacket. They would never wear a black t-shirt. And they stated specifically more than once that he wore a black t-shirt.

GRACE: Now, have the police searched your client`s home, his vehicle? Have they found a black t-shirt belonging to him?

LEJUEZ: No. As far as I know, they have not. They have not shown me everything they have yet, and they do not have the obligation yet."


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/09/ng.01.html

Someone posted that the guards homes were ransacked by the police when they were arrested. According to the attorney for Abraham Jones they wouldn't have found a T-shirt, but yet he was arrested.

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


I have a sister named Narcissist, and she's very bright too.

;)

ROFLMAO ;)

[Narcissist15]

Originally posted by nascarmom
More from Paulus' statement:

"I allow Joran to play the “Free Tournaments” but he is not allowed to play for real money in the casino."

Now if that's not living lawlessly off the land, I don't know what is.

But he played for real money.......proof is that Joran admitted to playing for money when he admitted to trying to help the MB student win back some money.........so that makes him a liar.......

you know how that goes........it works that way....don't try it when talking about anything Beth or MB though.....

Anyway....take care everyone......that does mean everyone (even those I disagree with).....hope you all have a safe weekend....a wonderful weekend....

hope to see you soon, but I have a busy couple, few days ahead. :)

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back
Here's an interesting interview:

"GRACE: Well, does this man they claim that they saw approaching her at the hotel bear any resemblance to your client?

LEJUEZ: The fact that they are of the black color, skin color, may be a resemblance. Not otherwise. My client never wears a t-shirt.

GRACE: OK, that`s what I was going to ask you. Was that his type of security uniform? I know your guy was a security guard. What did his security uniform look like?

LEJUEZ: Black trousers with a white shirt, and sometimes he would wear a black or dark blue jacket. They would never wear a black t-shirt. And they stated specifically more than once that he wore a black t-shirt.

GRACE: Now, have the police searched your client`s home, his vehicle? Have they found a black t-shirt belonging to him?

LEJUEZ: No. As far as I know, they have not. They have not shown me everything they have yet, and they do not have the obligation yet."


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/09/ng.01.html

Someone posted that the guards homes were ransacked by the police when they were arrested. According to the attorney for Abraham Jones they wouldn't have found a T-shirt, but yet he was arrested.
Well you know, ALE is so inept, they might not realize what a black t shirt looks like.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by nascarmom

Well you know, ALE is so inept, they might not realize what a black t shirt looks like.
Did you also notice the attorney said, "And they stated specifically more than once that he wore a black t-shirt?"

He's saying the suspects were talking about one man in a black shirt.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Did you also notice the attorney said, "And they stated specifically more than once that he wore a black t-shirt?"

He's saying the suspects were talking about one man in a black shirt. Yes indeed.

But we are supposed to believe the innocent SGs were implicated by J2K and how horrible the boys are for causing their arrest because they would have never been looked at or arrested if not for J2K. And then there are claims that the SGs would have been charged had it not been for Beth.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back
Here's an interesting interview:


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/09/ng.01.html

Someone posted that the guards homes were ransacked by the police when they were arrested. According to the attorney for Abraham Jones they wouldn't have found a T-shirt, but yet he was arrested.

Also from your link:

NORAINA PIETERSZ, MICKEY JOHN`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. He was actually that night visiting the Holiday Inn, to make that clear. He didn`t work that night. It was not his shift, but he was visiting.

And according to his statement, he left the Holiday Inn around 12:00 p.m. And after that, he went straight home. He might have stopped somewhere nearby his house, but further than that, he didn`t do anything else than go home.

GRACE: OK, 12:00 p.m. And Natalee went missing later, say, you know, ten hours later. I`m trying to get the time frame here.

PIETERSZ: Around 1:30. She was missing officially around 1:30.

GRACE: OK, 1:30 a.m. You`re telling me that your client was at home at that time or at the Holiday Inn?

PIETERSZ: No, he was not at the Holiday Inn that time. He left already. He was not working. He was just visiting. He went there approximately at 9:00 p.m. and he left around 12:00 p.m.

And according to the statement of the two witnesses, the two guys now suspect, that they said they saw a security guard walking up to Natalee around, I assume, 2 o`clock. And that never could be my client because he wasn`t even working. So he was not wearing a uniform.
==============

I think Pietersz has her AM and PM mixed up and it looks like it was a tad bit more than J2K saying who approached Natalee when they let her off that cast suspicion on the SGs, especially since their description contradicts what the SGs actually wear.

[paralegallin]

NM,

To me that comes off as saying that the guard was there at 12 am, just an hour or so before Natalee disappeard. Is that how you see it as well?

MOO

[julianella]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Why would police arrest security guards who didn't work that night when they were looking for one who did work that night?

I don't remember the boys saying the SG's worked that night, the discription was black t shirt with walkie talkie. And I thought in the beginning it was mentioned that they were spotted at the HI, and that Boeti even pointed them out, so being that they were if I am not mistaken they were unemployed and fitting the description, and were at the HI that night, so then it would make then look suspicious. Not to mention I think they were being looked into for theft. And with the incident that the girls had where someone tried to get into their room, I think they were picked up for that too.

Now if there is proof he/they left the HI at 12am, and was not seen there again on camera or otherwise, and we know Natalee didn't even leave C&C's until 1 am, then we know he/they was not the one! IMO

[julianella]

Originally posted by Narcissist15


So going with Unperson's post......

They didn't work at the HI......

There are hundreds of SGs working on Aruba....


why those two.......what did J2K say that would point the finger at those two guards....that didn't work at the HI and there being hundreds of SGs working on Aruba....

Sorry to be redundant.

I posted links before that showed that BNoeti Dompigs BIL named them, and also I think the description given by the boys, and the fact that at least one of the SG's were there. imo

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by julianella


I posted links before that showed that BNoeti Dompigs BIL named them, and also I think the description given by the boys, and the fact that at least one of the SG's were there. imo
Good theory Julia, except they didn't fit the description given by the boys.

Jones and John were not arrested because of the big lie.

To say they were is no longer a misunderstanding or a mistake, it has become an even bigger lie.

How about IMO here GB! Thanks FH20

[No Nic]

RUBEN TRAPENBERG, SPOKESPERSON FOR THE ARUBAN GOVERNMENT: No, he just gave you an explanation of that possibility. That is possible at this point, but if the investigation has led to these three guys, the chance for them being released at this point I think is very, very small. Remember, that these three boys point the finger at the two former guys or indicated that it might have been them. That‘s why the arrests were made on them

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8288005/

Renfro said police arrested the black guards "because the three boys pointed their fingers at these two security guards , and they couldn't leave that out of the loop. There was no reason to believe the boys were lying."

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/15/aruba.arrests/index.html

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by No Nic
RUBEN TRAPENBERG, SPOKESPERSON FOR THE ARUBAN GOVERNMENT: No, he just gave you an explanation of that possibility. That is possible at this point, but if the investigation has led to these three guys, the chance for them being released at this point I think is very, very small. Remember, that these three boys point the finger at the two former guys or indicated that it might have been them. That‘s why the arrests were made on them

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8288005/

Renfro said police arrested the black guards "because the three boys pointed their fingers at these two security guards , and they couldn't leave that out of the loop. There was no reason to believe the boys were lying."

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/06/15/aruba.arrests/index.html

Doesn't get clearer than this, NN! Thanks.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Doesn't get clearer than this, NN! Thanks.


Clear as a bell!
lol to think that it went down any other way is just hopeful dreaming.
J2K thought they were off the hook. the sg's were the ones that were going to go down for this.
Notice the bottom line is.... Not one of the three suspects changed their story until they were caught in all their lies.

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by Heyes

Clear as a bell!
lol to think that it went down any other way is just hopeful dreaming.
J2K thought they were off the hook. the sg's were the ones that were going to go down for this.
Notice the bottom line is.... Not one of the three suspects changed their story until they were caught in all their lies.

IMO, they didn't stop with the lies, even AFTER they were caught.

BTW, been meaning to tell you that I love your "summations" of the case. Short and to the exact point! :)

imo.

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Heyes



Clear as a bell!
lol to think that it went down any other way is just hopeful dreaming.
J2K thought they were off the hook. the sg's were the ones that were going to go down for this.
Notice the bottom line is.... Not one of the three suspects changed their story until they were caught in all their lies.

LOL, they changed their ORIGINAL LIE.

DOMPIG: Well, it would take me, I think, a little over two days to go over all the inconsistencies. None of the stories match up, let me put it that way. So when it comes to believing this individual, we know in which category to place him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9676188/

Inconsistencies, lies..............all the same. "WE know what category to place him in" says it all.

imo

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by No Nic


LOL, they changed their ORIGINAL LIE.

DOMPIG: Well, it would take me, I think, a little over two days to go over all the inconsistencies. None of the stories match up, let me put it that way. So when it comes to believing this individual, we know in which category to place him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9676188/

Inconsistencies, lies..............all the same. "WE know what category to place him in" says it all.

imo

I guess time takes its toll on people's memories...thanks for these link reminders explaining just what really happened!

imo.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by paralegallin
NM,

To me that comes off as saying that the guard was there at 12 am, just an hour or so before Natalee disappeard. Is that how you see it as well?

MOO That's exactly how I see it.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by paralegallin
NM,

To me that comes off as saying that the guard was there at 12 am, just an hour or so before Natalee disappeard. Is that how you see it as well?

MOO


That's how I read it. I think she confused midnight by saying 12pm.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Doesn't get clearer than this, NN! Thanks.


So today is a day that Julia is honest? Not the liar she has been portrayed as on here?

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Heyes



Clear as a bell!
lol to think that it went down any other way is just hopeful dreaming.
J2K thought they were off the hook. the sg's were the ones that were going to go down for this.
Notice the bottom line is.... Not one of the three suspects changed their story until they were caught in all their lies.

So a reporter has more infor than the suspect's attorney?

What about the reports they were picked up on a tip? What about the reports they were picked up because they were known to harass tourists? Those don't count because they don't fit with blaming J2K for ALE picking up 2 guys who didn't match the description and weren't working that night and still insisting they 'fingered the innocent SGs'?

LMAO

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by No Nic


LOL, they changed their ORIGINAL LIE.

DOMPIG: Well, it would take me, I think, a little over two days to go over all the inconsistencies. None of the stories match up, let me put it that way. So when it comes to believing this individual, we know in which category to place him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9676188/

Inconsistencies, lies..............all the same. "WE know what category to place him in" says it all.

imo

And speaking of lies and inconsistencies.....Did you see the statement where Paulus actually said he only "allows" (LOLOL!) Joran to play in Tournaments but not gamble in the casinos??? (paraphrased)

What a WHOPPER. Just WHERE did Paulus find Joran when he called him at 3am to ask him to come home when the Police and the group from Alabama came to his door?

ANSWER: THE CASINO!!

Like father, like son I guess.

IMO.

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by nascarmom


So a reporter has more infor than the suspect's attorney?

What about the reports they were picked up on a tip? What about the reports they were picked up because they were known to harass tourists? Those don't count because they don't fit with blaming J2K for ALE picking up 2 guys who didn't match the description and weren't working that night and still insisting they 'fingered the innocent SGs'?

LMAO


Bingo.

[No Nic]

Originally posted by nascarmom


So a reporter has more infor than the suspect's attorney?

What about the reports they were picked up on a tip? What about the reports they were picked up because they were known to harass tourists? Those don't count because they don't fit with blaming J2K for ALE picking up 2 guys who didn't match the description and weren't working that night and still insisting they 'fingered the innocent SGs'?

LMAO

Don't forget that repoters statement was backed up by the spokesperson of the day. A spokesperson who was to put Aruba and this investigation in the best light possible. He was lying also?? Does anyone in Aruba tell the truth ?? Oops, sorry, is everyone in Aruba involved in the big "misinformatiaon campaign"?

You found ONE link to support your "tip" theory, there are many, many more that support JK2 caused the arrest of the SGs.

imo

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Watership Down



So today is a day that Julia is honest? Not the liar she has been portrayed as on here? Julia AND Dompig.

LMAO

Pick and choose and then discount anything else - like the SG's attorney's own words and common sense - so that Beth appears to be a truth teller when she claims the same thing about J2K being the sole reason why they were picked up.

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by No Nic


Don't forget that repoters statement was backed up by the spokesperson of the day. A spokesperson who was to put Aruba and this investigation in the best light possible. He was lying also?? Does anyone in Aruba tell the truth ?? Oops, sorry, is everyone in Aruba involved in the big "misinformatiaon campaign"?

You found ONE link to support your "tip" theory, there are many, many more that support JK2 caused the arrest of the SGs.

imo

I say you win the Battle of the Links for today, NN! :D

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by Freshwater
It's appreciated. Some times you all CAN find your way through without post deletions etc.. Glad to see it resolved. I was nervous for a while.

FH20

:D

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


Don't forget that repoters statement was backed up by the spokesperson of the day. A spokesperson who was to put Aruba and this investigation in the best light possible. He was lying also?? Does anyone in Aruba tell the truth ?? Oops, sorry, is everyone in Aruba involved in the big "misinformatiaon campaign"?

You found ONE link to support your "tip" theory, there are many, many more that support JK2 caused the arrest of the SGs.

imo

The attorney of the arrested has more weight as he has more info.

Wrong clothes. Wrong timeline. They weren't working.

And just a little bit of common sense and deductive reasoning goes a long long way and sure beats being TOLD what to think by a news article, don't ya think?

And what does the number of links mean when the story is false on it's face? If every paper ran the story that Iraq had WMD, would that make it true? LOL

[Watership Down]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Julia AND Dompig.

LMAO

Pick and choose and then discount anything else - like the SG's attorney's own words and common sense - so that Beth appears to be a truth teller when she claims the same thing about J2K being the sole reason why they were picked up.


Now watch what happens next time the topic turns to the Jug shoving Julia subject. She will be unreliable again. ;)

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Paulus statement posted at BFN
--------------------------
On May 29th 2005, at approximately 16.00 hours, I went with Joran to the “Free Carribean Stud Tournament” in the Holiday Inn. During the break, at approximately 18.30 hours, I went back home. My youngest son Sebastian who was playing at a friends house was due to be dropped off at home around that time. Joran, with my permission, took over my seat because he had been eliminated earlier. We had agreed that he would call me after the tournament, in order for me to come and pick him up. He did indeed call me and at approximately 23.00 hour I picked him up near the Mc Donalds in Palm Beach with my red Suzuki.
--------------------------
So much for the 'line of credit' and so much for Paulus being there to 'meet Natalee' and so much for him saying he picked up Joran at 4AM at McDonalds.

More of Beth's lies EXPOSED. Thank you kindly BFN.

Wow, you should write a book, and name it 'Beth's Lies Exposed' you seem to have quite a knack, and it appears you have invested much time in this project.

There were many things in Paulus' statement that if one was trying to piece together the real story, then one might question why Freddy was the one to approach the VDS family with the truth. Ahhh, seems we might have another weak link. One that we've not really heard too much about except for his little photo shoots.

One might also question why Paulus didn't believe Joran won 150 dollars in the poker tournament, and why this was even brought up, unless it was just excuse/lie cover-up for the real reason Paulus called Guido.

Then there was the question of whether Joran asked Paulus about the No body No case, which Paulus couldn't remember....veryyyy interesting. With Joran being the one asking the question, could explain some of the police car tape, where Joran is angry at the Kalpoes for implicating his dad.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


I say you win the Battle of the Links for today, NN! :D

Battle of the Links?

LMAO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by SukiJane


Wow, you should write a book, and name it 'Beth's Lies Exposed' you seem to have quite a knack, and it appears you have invested much time in this project.

There were many things in Paulus' statement that if one was trying to piece together the real story, then one might question why Freddy was the one to approach the VDS family with the truth. Ahhh, seems we might have another weak link. One that we've not really heard too much about except for his little photo shoots.

One might also question why Paulus didn't believe Joran won 150 dollars in the poker tournament, and why this was even brought up, unless it was just excuse/lie cover-up for the real reason Paulus called Guido.

Then there was the question of whether Joran asked Paulus about the No body No case, which Paulus couldn't remember....veryyyy interesting. With Joran being the one asking the question, could explain some of the police car tape, where Joran is angry at the Kalpoes for implicating his dad. lol

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Watership Down



Bingo.

GM Everyone ....

I keep thinking about those SG's. One would think ((or maybe it's just ME who thinks .... lol)) .... IF .... the only reason those SG's were arrested in the first place was because of the original lie told by Joran et al .... wouldn't they, like Paulus, be RELEASED from "suspect status"??

I happen to believe those PARTICULAR SG's were arrested because they were "known" to the police. I don't believe the police are going to hone in on them particularly.

JMO

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


I say you win the Battle of the Links for today, NN! :D

Going out to enjoy a very MiamiNiceDay! :seeya:

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


LOL, they changed their ORIGINAL LIE.

DOMPIG: Well, it would take me, I think, a little over two days to go over all the inconsistencies. None of the stories match up, let me put it that way. So when it comes to believing this individual, we know in which category to place him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9676188/

Inconsistencies, lies..............all the same. "WE know what category to place him in" says it all.

imo

Inconsistenties, lies.......not the same thing. WE all know that.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


LOL, they changed their ORIGINAL LIE.

DOMPIG: Well, it would take me, I think, a little over two days to go over all the inconsistencies. None of the stories match up, let me put it that way. So when it comes to believing this individual, we know in which category to place him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9676188/

Inconsistencies, lies..............all the same. "WE know what category to place him in" says it all.

imo

Inconsistencies, lies.......not the same thing. WE all know that.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


IMO, they didn't stop with the lies, even AFTER they were caught.

BTW, been meaning to tell you that I love your "summations" of the case. Short and to the exact point! :)

imo.

Your right! the lies continue....
and thanks! :)

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


And speaking of lies and inconsistencies.....Did you see the statement where Paulus actually said he only "allows" (LOLOL!) Joran to play in Tournaments but not gamble in the casinos??? (paraphrased)

What a WHOPPER. Just WHERE did Paulus find Joran when he called him at 3am to ask him to come home when the Police and the group from Alabama came to his door?

ANSWER: THE CASINO!!

Like father, like son I guess.

IMO. That's even CLOSE to what he said. :read:

[No Nic]

Originally posted by nascarmom


<snipped>
And just a little bit of common sense and deductive reasoning goes a long long way and sure beats being TOLD what to think by a news article, don't ya think?

<snipped> LOL

What you call common sense and deductive reason is in Tree's famous words A LOAD. ALE and the persons DIRECTLY involved with this investigation have none of that? Only a few message board posters can figure this whole thing out ?? Have you notified the ALE and told them where went wrong ??

And I think I will just leave it at that. :seeya:

imo

[Heyes]

Originally posted by nascarmom


So a reporter has more infor than the suspect's attorney?

What about the reports they were picked up on a tip? What about the reports they were picked up because they were known to harass tourists? Those don't count because they don't fit with blaming J2K for ALE picking up 2 guys who didn't match the description and weren't working that night and still insisting they 'fingered the innocent SGs'?

LMAO

it really doesn't matter, the point is......
J2K completely lied and thus started the arrests of 2 innocent men.
lol the whole dang story was a lie.
what else is there?????? lmao

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


GM Everyone ....

I keep thinking about those SG's. One would think ((or maybe it's just ME who thinks .... lol)) .... IF .... the only reason those SG's were arrested in the first place was because of the original lie told by Joran et al .... wouldn't they, like Paulus, be RELEASED from "suspect status"??

I happen to believe those PARTICULAR SG's were arrested because they were "known" to the police. I don't believe the police are going to hone in on them particularly.

JMO This is just another debunking that will never be conceeded by the anti J2K side of the fence.

It's clear to anyone that the SGs were not arrested because of the lie, no matter how many links are posted showing what REALLY transpired, the same tired robo posted links that J2K fingered them will be dusted off and posted as if they prove anything.

It's rather comical, but sad, that the arrest of the SGs is always brought up in an attempt to make J2K look oh so bad and oh so guilty. But when faced with NO EVIDENCE of a crime desperation seeps in and look what we get "oh but they LIED" "oh but they caused the innocent SGs to be arrested". :rolleyes:

[julianella]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


GM Everyone ....

I keep thinking about those SG's. One would think ((or maybe it's just ME who thinks .... lol)) .... IF .... the only reason those SG's were arrested in the first place was because of the original lie told by Joran et al .... wouldn't they, like Paulus, be RELEASED from "suspect status"??

I happen to believe those PARTICULAR SG's were arrested because they were "known" to the police. I don't believe the police are going to hone in on them particularly.

JMO

You have to petition to be released, and I don't think they petitioned yet! imo

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by nascarmom
That's even CLOSE to what he said. :read:

I'd say it was pretty darn close if we are to believe what you previously posted. (see below)

Again.....WHERE did Paulus find Joran at 3am when the police arrived at his door asking for Joran?

ANSWER: In the CASINO!

Pants on Fire, Paulus!

Now I must really seize the day! :seeya:

=======================
nascarmom
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 3941
More from Paulus' statement:

"I allow Joran to play the “Free Tournaments” but he is not allowed to play for real money in the casino."

Now if that's not living lawlessly off the land, I don't know what is.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Heyes


it really doesn't matter, the point is......
J2K completely lied and thus started the arrests of 2 innocent men.
lol the whole dang story was a lie.
what else is there?????? lmao But they didn't start the arrest.

The clothes don't match.
The SGs were not working there at the time.
The SGs were not hanging out there at the time.
They were never IDed by J2K

Boeti put them at the door of Natalee's hotel room the night she vanished. No disparaging remarks about his ID and fingering of the innocent SGs and causing their arrest?

Yes, J2K lied about the HI dropoff and Natalee being approached by a man in a BLACK tshirt and walkie talkie. No one is saying they didn't lie about that, so what is your point?

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


I'd say it was pretty darn close if we are to believe what you previously posted. (see below)

Again.....WHERE did Paulus find Joran at 3am when the police arrived at his door asking for Joran?

ANSWER: In the CASINO!

Pants on Fire, Paulus!

Now I must really seize the day! :seeya:

=======================
nascarmom
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 3941
More from Paulus' statement:

"I allow Joran to play the “Free Tournaments” but he is not allowed to play for real money in the casino."

Now if that's not living lawlessly off the land, I don't know what is.

How is what you said:

Did you see the statement where Paulus actually said he only "allows" (LOLOL!) Joran to play in Tournaments but not gamble in the casinos??? (paraphrased)


anything close to what Paulus said:

I allow Joran to play the “Free Tournaments” but he is not allowed to play for real money in the casino."


It's not even close, like I said. But as history has shown, you will NEVER EVER admit it when you are WRONG.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by nascarmom
But they didn't start the arrest.

The clothes don't match.
The SGs were not working there at the time.
The SGs were not hanging out there at the time.
They were never IDed by J2K

Boeti put them at the door of Natalee's hotel room the night she vanished. No disparaging remarks about his ID and fingering of the innocent SGs and causing their arrest?

Yes, J2K lied about the HI dropoff and Natalee being approached by a man in a BLACK tshirt and walkie talkie. No one is saying they didn't lie about that, so what is your point?


My point is my dear nascar, without J2K's lies, 2 innocent men would have never had their lives torn apart and thrown into jail.
Spin anyway you want. that's the bottom line.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Heyes


Your right! the lies continue....
and thanks! :) Yep,Beth keeps getting exposed with more and more lies she has told.

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by nascarmom


How is what you said:

Did you see the statement where Paulus actually said he only "allows" (LOLOL!) Joran to play in Tournaments but not gamble in the casinos??? (paraphrased)


anything close to what Paulus said:

I allow Joran to play the “Free Tournaments” but he is not allowed to play for real money in the casino."

<snipped so FW won't be nervous - LOL!>



Perfect translation. Thanks for being so helpful and proving my point and for also proving yet another lie by Paulus!

Ta, ta! :seeya:

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Heyes



My point is my dear nascar, without J2K's lies, 2 innocent men would have never had their lives torn apart and thrown into jail.
Spin anyway you want. that's the bottom line.

BINGO BINGO BINGO , dear Heyes.

[dinojen]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


I'd say it was pretty darn close if we are to believe what you previously posted. (see below)

Again.....WHERE did Paulus find Joran at 3am when the police arrived at his door asking for Joran?

ANSWER: In the CASINO!

Pants on Fire, Paulus!

Now I must really seize the day! :seeya:

=======================
nascarmom
Senior Member

Registered: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 3941
More from Paulus' statement:

"I allow Joran to play the “Free Tournaments” but he is not allowed to play for real money in the casino."

Now if that's not living lawlessly off the land, I don't know what is.



Keyword is ALLOW....

I would need several sets of hands to count the things I did when I was 17 that I wasn't ALLOWED to do.....

Because Joran was gambling that evening that you are talking about... doesn't mean Paulus ALLOWED it...

They most likely didn't ALLOW him to drink either.. but most teens as I'm sure Joran did.. do it anyway...

Proves nothing... IMO

;)

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by Heyes



My point is my dear nascar, without J2K's lies, 2 innocent men would have never had their lives torn apart and thrown into jail.
Spin anyway you want. that's the bottom line.

Oh, but Heyes.........it's perfectly OK these men's lives were torn apart............OK, because JORAN did it! LOL!

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Heyes



My point is my dear nascar, without J2K's lies, 2 innocent men would have never had their lives torn apart and thrown into jail.
Spin anyway you want. that's the bottom line.

You have no way of knowing that. Boeti placed them at the door of Natalee's hotel room. Someone called in a tip about them. They were known to harass tourists.

But it's only because J2K lied about a man in a black tshirt with a walkie talkie approaching Natalee that they were arrested. LMAO

ps - I'm not your dear so don't refer to me as 'my dear'.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Oh, but Heyes.........it's perfectly OK these men's lives were torn apart............OK, because JORAN did it! LOL! Joran didn't do it.

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Oh, but Heyes.........it's perfectly OK these men's lives were torn apart............OK, because JORAN did it! LOL!

Too late to add:

If Joran is to be believed (lol) he even said in his interview with Greta that he felt so bad about the SG in the cell next to him because he KNEW he had contributed to that. (PARAPHRASED)

imo.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Perfect translation. Thanks for being so helpful and proving my point and for also proving yet another lie by Paulus!

Ta, ta! :seeya:

perfect translation? LMAO

Where do you think the free tournaments Joran was allowed to play in were held?

Hint: THE CASINO

So much for the 'perfect translation'.

LMAO

[Heyes]

Originally posted by nascarmom
Yep,Beth keeps getting exposed with more and more lies she has told.

lol, Nope, don't think so. plus all your beth lies statements do not in anyway help in finding out what became of natalee. so if she ate steak for dinner but told everyone she had a hamburger how does this help solve the case? What purpose does it serve? None!




lol I can hear the reponse now.... I never said beth ate hamburger what are you talking about? lol lol lol lol

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Doesn't get clearer than this, NN! Thanks.
I guess you don't understand the term "figure of speech", do you?

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by nascarmom


perfect translation? LMAO

Where do you think the free tournaments Joran was allowed to play in were held?

Hint: THE CASINO

So much for the 'perfect translation'.

LMAO

There wasn't a TOURNAMENT going on at the time at 3am. According to the statements.....he was there GAMBLING.

imo.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by dinojen




Keyword is ALLOW....

I would need several sets of hands to count the things I did when I was 17 that I wasn't ALLOWED to do.....

Because Joran was gambling that evening that you are talking about... doesn't mean Paulus ALLOWED it...

They most likely didn't ALLOW him to drink either.. but most teens as I'm sure Joran did.. do it anyway...

Proves nothing... IMO

;)

On the contrary.

It proves Paulus didn't have a line of credit for Joran to use to gamble with. Paulus restricted Joran to playing in the FREE tournaments and not playing with REAL MONEY.

Proves Beth's a liar about the line of credit.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by nascarmom


You have no way of knowing that. Boeti placed them at the door of Natalee's hotel room. Someone called in a tip about them. They were known to harass tourists.

But it's only because J2K lied about a man in a black tshirt with a walkie talkie approaching Natalee that they were arrested. LMAO

ps - I'm not your dear so don't refer to me as 'my dear'.


ps lol

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by Heyes


lol, Nope, don't think so. plus all your beth lies statements do not in anyway help in finding out what became of natalee. so if she ate steak for dinner but told everyone she had a hamburger how does this help solve the case? What purpose does it serve? None!

lol I can hear the reponse now.... I never said beth ate hamburger what are you talking about? lol lol lol lol

LINK, please that Beth had hamburger! :D

[julianella]

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE INTERNET REPORTER: I can tell you, Nancy, there is nine of them now, so let`s go through one by one. It`s going to take a little while, cause as you see this list keeps expanding and expanding. First, of course, John and Jones, the two security guards who were detained right away and of course they were set free one week later.

GRACE: And they were detained, Dave Holloway, strictly on the word of Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers, correct?

HOLLOWAY: That`s correct.

GRACE: Because those three, the chief suspects claim these two innocent minority security guards were last seen with Natalee Holloway, they came up with a fantastic story, a very long and in detailed scenario about how they led her away and she tripped and fell and they watched her fall and they kept going with her and that`s the last they saw of Natalee. That was quite an involved statement. They had it down to times, locations, and pointed these two out. Remember that, Dave Holloway?

HOLLOWAY: Oh, yes, oh, yes.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/24/ng.01.html


"It is likely it may have been a police strategy to let these three men go to gather more information," Ruben Trapenberg, spokesman for the Aruba government, told FOX News Thursday morning.

"The three witnesses gave information about the two guys [already in custody] and that is why they were held. If one of those two has an alibi, then the story [given by the three witnesses] doesn't fit and therefore the two may then be released depending on the proof."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159006,00.html

Joran said to the brothers "Who gave testimony about the guards, you and not me. Why? Because I did not want to get anyone in trouble who has nothing to do with this case."

http://www.nbc13.com/news/8828456/detail.html

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by nascarmom


On the contrary.

It proves Paulus didn't have a line of credit for Joran to use to gamble with. Paulus restricted Joran to playing in the FREE tournaments and not playing with REAL MONEY.

Proves Beth's a liar about the line of credit.

Did he use Monopoly Money? :D

This explanation doesn't fly. Beth was told somewhere along the liine about the line of credit. She's repeating what she believed to be the truth told to her by a responsible person.

IMO.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


There wasn't a TOURNAMENT going on at the time at 3am. According to the statements.....he was there GAMBLING.

imo.

wasn't daddy VDS trying to get ahold of Joran the next night and thought he was at a casino or was it two different casino's?
Sheesh! How do these casino's stay in business with the non gambling tournaments?

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


There wasn't a TOURNAMENT going on at the time at 3am. According to the statements.....he was there GAMBLING.

imo.

Paulus didn't want him playing with real money, only playing in the FREE tournaments (also known as GAMBLING). Who said there wasn't a free tourney going on that night?

[Heyes]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


LINK, please that Beth had hamburger! :D

ok, that was funny, lmao!

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Heyes


wasn't daddy VDS trying to get ahold of Joran the next night and thought he was at a casino or was it two different casino's?
Sheesh! How do these casino's stay in business with the non gambling tournaments? What are you talking about?

[No Nic]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


LINK, please that Beth had hamburger! :D

I have a link that she ate steak, but sometimes steak may be ground.......therefore, it is hamburger. Will this work? LOL:tongue:

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by Heyes


wasn't daddy VDS trying to get ahold of Joran the next night and thought he was at a casino or was it two different casino's?
Sheesh! How do these casino's stay in business with the non gambling tournaments?

This is too easy, Heyes.

Not only did Paulus reach Joran at the Casino, we have Joran's own words saying he was gambling at the time his father's phone call came in - or he had just finished - in the Statements.

If his supporters are now saying Joran is lying about that.....

imo.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Did he use Monopoly Money? :D

This explanation doesn't fly. Beth was told somewhere along the liine about the line of credit. She's repeating what she believed to be the truth told to her by a responsible person.

IMO. No they use non value chips.

No, Beth flat out lied about the line of credit just like she lied about never calling anyone a rapist.

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by No Nic


I have a link that she ate steak, but sometimes steak may be ground.......therefore, it is hamburger. Will this work? LOL:tongue:

No, missy. I DEMAND a link as to the EXACT type of "meat" Beth ate!!! :D :biggrin:

[julianella]

Originally posted by nascarmom


On the contrary.

It proves Paulus didn't have a line of credit for Joran to use to gamble with. Paulus restricted Joran to playing in the FREE tournaments and not playing with REAL MONEY.

Proves Beth's a liar about the line of credit.

WHere did the REAL money Joran played with come from? And What do you win in a "free" tournament? There is a prize right, is it Money? If so where does the prize money come from ?

Joran was seen, and has admitted to gambling with real money, where does he get that money, one statement mentions a couple hundred dollars.....

imo

[Unperson1984]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Perfect translation. Thanks for being so helpful and proving my point and for also proving yet another lie by Paulus!

Ta, ta! :seeya:

Didn't Paulus say the Joran had his permission to play at the free poker tournament at the casino that night?

:)

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Heyes


lol, Nope, don't think so. plus all your beth lies statements do not in anyway help in finding out what became of natalee. so if she ate steak for dinner but told everyone she had a hamburger how does this help solve the case? What purpose does it serve? None!




lol I can hear the reponse now.... I never said beth ate hamburger what are you talking about? lol lol lol lol

Why is she lying? What is she hiding? Why is sooooo critical for her for Joran to SUFFER?

[Heyes]

Originally posted by julianella


WHere did the REAL money Joran played with come from? And What do you win in a "free" tournament? There is a prize right, is it Money? If so where does the prize money come from ?

Joran was seen, and has admitted to gambling with real money, where does he get that money, one statement mentions a couple hundred dollars.....

imo

Joran must be lying, he only plays with non value chips! :rolleyes:

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


Didn't Paulus say the Joran had his permission to play at the free poker tournament at the casino that night?

:) Yes and that has been morphed to Free Tourney = Not Gambling.

:shrug:

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by Unperson1984


Didn't Paulus say the Joran had his permission to play at the free poker tournament at the casino that night?

:)

Don't know the answer to this, Un. But.....at 3AM?? And didn't Joran say he was gambling, in the Statements?

IMO.

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by No Nic


What you call common sense and deductive reason is in Tree's famous words A LOAD. ALE and the persons DIRECTLY involved with this investigation have none of that? Only a few message board posters can figure this whole thing out ?? Have you notified the ALE and told them where went wrong ??

And I think I will just leave it at that. :seeya:

imo Good cuz I have no idea what you are talking about.

LMAO

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Don't know the answer to this, Un. But.....at 3AM?? And didn't Joran say he was gambling, in the Statements?

IMO.

He was told he couldn't gamble with REAL MONEY not that he couldn't gamble.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by nascarmom


Why is she lying? What is she hiding? Why is sooooo critical for her for Joran to SUFFER?


She isn't lying, she isn't hiding anything.
Joran needs to suffer because he knows what happened to Natalee. He is lying and he is hiding the truth.

[redjetta]

Originally posted by julianella


WHere did the REAL money Joran played with come from? And What do you win in a "free" tournament? There is a prize right, is it Money? If so where does the prize money come from ?

Joran was seen, and has admitted to gambling with real money, where does he get that money, one statement mentions a couple hundred dollars.....

imo

Theres free tournaments all of the time for money at casinos. The casinos host these because they just want you to get in the door. The odds of a player coming in & not ordering something are slim so they end up making money & they have advertising for their casino by hosting a free tournament. Its a gimic to get business!

imo

[MiamiNice1]

Originally posted by Heyes

She isn't lying, she isn't hiding anything.
Joran needs to suffer because he knows what happened to Natalee. He is lying and he is hiding the truth.

Simple!!

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by Heyes



My point is my dear nascar, without J2K's lies, 2 innocent men would have never had their lives torn apart and thrown into jail.
Spin anyway you want. that's the bottom line.
Two innocent men had their lives torn apart?

Not even Nancy Grace said that.

And you accuse someone else of spinning?

[dinojen]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Did he use Monopoly Money? :D

This explanation doesn't fly. Beth was told somewhere along the liine about the line of credit. She's repeating what she believed to be the truth told to her by a responsible person.

IMO.




Boy someone should try to sell her a bridge then...lol..

And here we go with that pesky word "responsible"... kind of like how "responsibly" the "children" were behaving while they were on the island of Aruba.. so much so they were asked not to come back...(by the Holiday Inn)

I would think when I make a statement (for as many that she made on national tv) I would want to make sure that what I was stating was FACT.. not what I believed to be FACT...

Beth had believed alot of things that have been proven to be false.. or less sketchy.. maybe she shouldn't of listened so much to Skeeter and Jossy... just a thought... maybe she should of let ALE proceed with the investigation their way and not of let the American cable networks run the case on a nightly basis... jmho..

This investigation turned into Tabloid TV ... after the first week...

And wasn't about Natalee after a few weeks.. and it's not about Natalee at all anymore..

But ya know... gotta keep them love bowls filled...

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Heyes



She isn't lying, she isn't hiding anything.
Joran needs to suffer because he knows what happened to Natalee. He is lying and he is hiding the truth.
She most definately is lying and about a great many things. So what is she hiding?

He's not hiding the truth. Even the Office of the Public Prosecutor stated there is no evidence of a crime or that Joran committed one. Time to move on.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by Heyes



She isn't lying, she isn't hiding anything.
Joran needs to suffer because he knows what happened to Natalee. He is lying and he is hiding the truth.
What if it turtns out Beth knows what happened to Natalee?

What would you like to see done to make her suffer?

[julianella]

Originally posted by redjetta


Theres free tournaments all of the time for money at casinos. The casinos host these because they just want you to get in the door. The odds of a player coming in & not ordering something are slim so they end up making money & they have advertising for their casino by hosting a free tournament. Its a gimic to get business!

imo

Underage tournaments?

I just did a web search of Free tournaments in Aruba and got nothing but Internet games, and there was a buy in! That was the prize money, when you put in a buy in then doesn't that just void out the "free"?

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Two innocent men had their lives torn apart?

Not even Nancy Grace said that.

And you accuse someone else of spinning?

yes, torn apart! Did you see the tape of one of their wives, kids??
All unnecessary pain that J2K put them and their families through.
Thanks J2K!

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Heyes


Joran must be lying, he only plays with non value chips! :rolleyes: Link?

[redjetta]

Originally posted by Heyes


Joran must be lying, he only plays with non value chips! :rolleyes:

FYI theres free tournament often - its called advertising for their business

imo

[nascarmom]

Originally posted by Heyes


yes, torn apart! Did you see the tape of one of their wives, kids??
All unnecessary pain that J2K put them and their families through.
Thanks J2K!
Yeah, thanks J2K for describing someone with different colored clothes. Thanks J2K for describing someone who wasn't even there at the time. Thanks J2K for describing someone who wasn't even working at the time.

Thanks!


LMAO

[dinojen]

Originally posted by Heyes



My point is my dear nascar, without J2K's lies, 2 innocent men would have never had their lives torn apart and thrown into jail.
Spin anyway you want. that's the bottom line.





Hmmmmmm, I thought these "innocent men" were also being detained for being in possession of stolen property.. not just suspect of Natalee's disappearance.... seems to me like the police in Aruba were already pretty much aware of this duo.. so so much for having their lives torn apart.. that's a tad bit dramatic if you ask me...

[Heyes]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

What if it turtns out Beth knows what happened to Natalee?

What would you like to see done to make her suffer?




She's got a good idea what happened to Natalee.
She's been suffering. :rolleyes:

[redjetta]

Originally posted by julianella


Underage tournaments?

I just did a web search of Free tournaments in Aruba and got nothing but Internet games, and there was a buy in! That was the prize money, when you put in a buy in then doesn't that just void out the "free"?

I said NOTHING about underage tournaments

Searching online for alot of things brings up TONS of different info
imo