General Discussion /Post Karr [Archive] - Page 2

taz2110

01-05-2006, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by darkpaint

LOL-the intruder forgot his ransom note,a pen but did remember to bring his latex gloves to leave no trace. Why didn't the intruder leave any footprints anywhere? There was snow on the ground. Did he remember to bring his galoshes? Patsy killed that little girl and John helped her beat the rap so she wouldn't reveal his sexual abuse on JB.

The new detectives did find some new evidence. The detectives had a guy on who had gone to the police about a young man who hung around his wrecking yard at times. He went on to say that this guy would catch stray cats and kill them with his bare hands, or take target pratice with a gun he carried. He also had said to the junk dealer that he was going to be getting alot of money very soon. The owner of the yard went to the Bolder police and told them about this guy, and like alot of other tips, nothing was done.
The day after JB murder this same guy is found dead. The bolder police said it was a suicide, but the new detectives proved that it was infact a homicide!! The dead guy had footware in his room for which the tread matched the cast taken from the crime scene. He also had a stun gun in his room.
The dead guy was right handed, he had apparently while laying on his back, folded a pillow in half and put it up against his body on his " Left" side and then reached across himself turned the muzzle of the gun into the pillow and shot himself. The detectives said aside from the physical contortions to shoot yourself this way, if possible which the so called experts thought was not a likely senerio, why if you were wanting to kill yourself would you care about the noise from the gun, and that most suicide that shoot themselves, put a gun to their head, or in their mouth.

The theory they have is there were 2 murderers involved and the dead guy was one of them, and he was a loose cannon (mouthy) and his partner in crime wanted to shut him up.There is strong evidence in the footware that proved the dead guy was at the crime scene. There is also proof that someone did get into the Ramsey home through a basement window. Also, the ransom note made reference to "they and We" throughout which the detectives said would have to lead you to believe there was more than one person at the scene.
There was also other "new" physical evidence but it escapes memory right now. If it comes back i'll post it here.

Flawless

01-05-2006, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by RacerX0499

Really? If some twisted murderering freak had it in for my family, I would have had many face to face meetings with LE. I would demand they find the killer of my daughter so I could ensure the safety of my young son and see the murderer locked up in prison. And I would talk till them till the cows came home if that's what it took.

Me too, Racer. Of Course there is always a chance that someone else committed the murder, but I still find the parent's behavior highly suspect in that they seemed more concerned about their own public relation issues that the murder of their daughter.

IMO

Former Juror

01-05-2006, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by Narcissist71

Like Sabrina Aisenberg parents.....missing child......who cooperated fully with police.......see where that got them.......until finally they did have to get an attorney.

They're guilty, too.

IMOOC

kab164

01-05-2006, 08:39 AM

One of the programs explained that spider webs are constructed quite quickly. That was not good proof to be used against an intruder theory. Patsy doesn't come across as a warm and fuzzy person. But I can't even imagine their horror, it doesn't mean she did it.

The fact that another little girl who lived in the same neighborhood and attended the same dance school was almost abducted (the mother heard it) makes me think that whoever did this to Jon Benet did it before and possibly after.

Regarding the snow, the ground wasn't covered in snow. It would be possible to avoid it when leaving. Or perhaps it snowed after they left.

ljolly1664

01-05-2006, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by Katt2
I guess I belong in the "sad category" because I have always had suspicions about Burke and that his parents covered for him or at least Patsy did.

Wasn't there semen found on her body? Couldn't they have ruled him out by now? Besides, I don't think he would know how to strangle her in that way. IMO.

willow_1

01-05-2006, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by Former Juror

What do I think? I think Patsy did it, and John helped cover it up.

IMO

MOO

IMOOC

Have you figured out yet where she got the stun gun,used onJB? Have you figured out yet where she got the sperm that doesn't match any one in her housewhole?I am glad I wasn't the person from whom you were on a jury.I think you let your feeling guide you and not evidence. IMO

Leve

01-06-2006, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by willow_1

Have you figured out yet where she got the stun gun,used onJB? Have you figured out yet where she got the sperm that doesn't match any one in her housewhole?I am glad I wasn't the person from whom you were on a jury.I think you let your feeling guide you and not evidence. IMO

The stun gun THEORY hasn't been proven. Personally the marks on Jon Benet's face look like the indention of a ring to me. Like Patsy's diamond was turned around on her finger while she was holding her little girls head down while pulling the end of that garotte. MOO ofcourse.

Link please to "sperm" being found on Jon Benet's body. I heard about some minute traces of DNA but haven't heard that any actual sperm cells were ound. Thanks!

Albert Osborn

01-07-2006, 09:23 AM

Family members are not involved in
this murder. I don't have a lot of time
to spend on cases like this, but I love
the challenge. if any of you posters
live in the Boulder area, contact me.

Howso@centurytel.net

Albert Osborn

01-09-2006, 05:54 PM

Hello,

anybody on this form from the
Boulder area?

Thanks,
Howso

amill

01-10-2006, 08:26 PM

Did the police or anyone working this case ever take fingerprints off of the note pad, specifically focusing on the ransom note itself, and possibly a pen if the pen was lying next to it. The suspcet would have had to leave some kind of evidence on the piece of paper, unless they were wearing gloves. But then the fingerprints on the window seal most likely probably means that the suspect did not wear gloves at all while committing this crime.

I don't really have any opinions on this case for the fact that there was no significant evidence, at all, to really point to anyone, especially the family. But the specific amount of money that was requested on the ranson note, that was the same bonus amount as JBR's dad's amount is to much of a coincidence, which could lead to different scenarios:
1) Whoever did that to JB was someone who knew the family personally.
OR
2) JBR's dad's boss? Or whoever handed out the bonuses or somebody who knew what John was getting on his bonus.
OR
3) An intruder did in fact stay in the house until everyone was a sleep and kill JB. BUT.. this does not explain the ransom note, due to the fact that if this was indeed a stranger, how would the stranger know what JB's dad's bonus was? I'm sure he didn't have it laying around on the table or counter.

ALL IMO

jacknpeytonsmom

01-12-2006, 03:43 PM

If I remember correctly, John Ramsey was Chairman over at Access Graphics, which was a publicly held company. A bonus is information readily available on their corporate website, on several reporting websites, etc...Bonuses and salary for top executives of publicly held firms, is public business.

IMO

CJMajor

01-13-2006, 01:29 AM

Hello all,
I am new to this and really don't have the time to catch up on all of the posting but I did skim thru a few pages. I am curious about many different details of this case.

#1. Lack of emotion and grieving on the Ramsey's part.

I understand that all of us show our emotions differently but this was their child. My sister passed away (due to an accident at a skating rink) just after her 6th birthday. My stepfather had 2 nervous breakdowns before the showing and 1 at the gravesite right after the funeral had commenced. My mother tried to commit suicide a few days after her death. All of us were so emotionally distraught, but we knew what had happened to Lacy. There were no mysteries, no killer at large, no wondering where she was or if she was okay. I can't imagine being in the Ramsey's position and not really knowing what happened to Jon Benet. I would be an emotional basket case! Of course this is my opinion and my example of a totally different situation. I know that the only similarity is that a very young child passed away so please don't get defensive on me. I guess my point (and I apologize for rambling) is that most people would be devastated over the loss of a child. Most people would do whatever it takes to make sure that the person(s) who did this is apprehended. Why didn't they cooperate fully with the investigation?!

#2. Whoever committed the murder of Jon Benet must have felt very comfortable in the Ramsey's house, don't you think?

Why would someone take the time to stop and leave a ransom note if they were taking the risk of someone getting up at any time for a glass of water or any other reason? Wouldn't they want to get in and out of the house as quickly as possible?

Again, these are just some questions that I have and thought maybe you guys could give me some insight. I know that there are more than a few of you who know more about this case than I do. :confused:

:rose: For Jon Benet

chatwuann

01-17-2006, 03:25 AM

Originally posted by Earl Grey

That pineapple in JB's tummy is bothersome. I also have wondered if someone took her to the kitchen to eat a snack. It would HAVE to have been someone she knew. It could have been a family member or someone dressed as Santa. A child would go along with Santa--he's the magical guy delivering the goods!

We follow reports of other children being taken from their homes and murdered, so we know this tragedy happens. But most kids are removed from their homes. This case, which happened in the home, is "off"; something isn't quite right.

Do you think it is "normal" that the Ramseys were in such a deep sleep they didn't hear anything or any movement? Although it is not concrete proof of anything, it has always bothered me that her parents slept so soundly on a night when most parents are awake and setting up Christmas or are listening/watching for their children who might be peeking at the tree before Christmas morning.

Yes a child would go with an adult dressed as Santa or someone they knew but children also go with perfect strangers if they seem non threatening to the child. And the killer would kill the JonBenet and leave her body in the house if he/she had a secret hatred for the Ramseys and wanted to get revenge or teach them a lesson. As for the Ramseys claiming to hear nothing that night other parents have not heard anything when their child was taken from the home and in the case of Stephanie Crowe didn't hear her being stabbed to death in her bedroom so the Ramseys could be telling the truth. Sorry to correct you but didn't JonBenet die on Christmas night? Not Christmas Eve? If you know differently then you must be privy to information I and others haven't heard. Or are you going by the date on JonBenet's headstone? :confused:

AAJMO

armchair detective/trucrmbuf

mike nichols

01-19-2006, 10:13 AM

From what I've researched on this crime, it looks like it was a mess from the start. The crime scene obviously could not be kept intact as the whole neighborhood seemed to have been all through the house before the police even showed up,. I personally believe her parents know more about this than they are revealing. I think they did not do the crime themselves, but may have set up her murder by another person, just as i think Robert Blake did to his wife.

CJMajor

01-25-2006, 02:31 PM

My point exactly BigMikeNash.

csi_fan_01

01-26-2006, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by chatwuann

If the Ramseys are guilty of killing JonBenet why haven't they been indicted by the present DA in Boulder? And why didn't Alex Hunter indict them? And why is it that 2 Grand Juries didn't hand down an indictment against them? These are people who know the evidence that the BPD had on the Ramseys and none of them indicted them. If they had real hard evidence on the Ramseys they would have been indicted in a heartbeat. But they weren't. Answer me that.

armchair detective/trucrmbuf

I can't say this is a total admission of guilty; however, the Ramseys sought help from a friend of mine who is a well known defense attorney. He always polygraphs people he defends because he will not represent anyone he feels is guilty of the crime the defendant is being charged. When he made this request of the Ramseys, he never heard another word from them again.

We were left with only option we could find. They wouldn't take the polygraph because they knew they probably wouldn't pass it because they have something to hide. Whether it be they conspired with another person or perpetrated the crime remains to be seen but since then, I have always looked at them as being guilty.

Also, please note. No prosecutors, judges, juries, grand juries, police officers or defense attorneys are without error. Everyone makes mistakes. I haven't followed this case very closely but I can say that it is very neglient that nothing else has been done about this horrific crime to this child. One can only hope that the person who perpetrated such violence on this little girl will never forget and live in their own personal hell for the rest of their life. If that's the Ramseys or not, so be it.

Deneece

01-26-2006, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by CJMajor
*snipped*
#1. Lack of emotion and grieving on the Ramsey's part.

I understand that all of us show our emotions differently but this was their child. My sister passed away (due to an accident at a skating rink) just after her 6th birthday. My stepfather had 2 nervous breakdowns before the showing and 1 at the gravesite right after the funeral had commenced. My mother tried to commit suicide a few days after her death. All of us were so emotionally distraught, but we knew what had happened to Lacy. There were no mysteries, no killer at large, no wondering where she was or if she was okay. I can't imagine being in the Ramsey's position and not really knowing what happened to Jon Benet. I would be an emotional basket case! Of course this is my opinion and my example of a totally different situation. I know that the only similarity is that a very young child passed away so please don't get defensive on me. I guess my point (and I apologize for rambling) is that most people would be devastated over the loss of a child. Most people would do whatever it takes to make sure that the person(s) who did this is apprehended. Why didn't they cooperate fully with the investigation?!
**snipped again***

:rose: For Jon Benet I don’t wish to comment on this case, I have followed it closely but totally unsure…too much points to the parents, yet there is contradictory evidence so until I see more concrete info, I will remain on the fence here.

Now…I just wanted to comment on this statement… First, let me say I feel very sad for your families loss…how tragic…it truly rips at my heart to hear how others have suffered and brings to me the loss of my own child. The only reason I mention my son (who would be thirteen in May) is because I can understand behavior for grieving families. In my case, I wanted to be strong for everyone around me, to show no emotion, for I knew that once I let go I would lose control. My sisters were falling apart, yet I was their shoulder and I didn’t shed a tear (in public anyway) and I was very stoic. Part of me was in shock, but part of me was terrified to show any emotion. OK…had my son not died in a hospital of natural causes, I am sure I would be scrutinized for my unemotional state…by appearance anyway…as it was, I got yelled at for being a cold “b***” and for “not caring that my son was dead”…etc…by the sisters who had lost someone close to them for the first time in our lives…eventually, we found an outlet and were able to mend…it took a few years… So, don’t judge people by how they do or don’t react, inside it would tear your heart out whether you were responsible or not.

As for these people getting a lawyer right off the bat, no surprise there. Wealthy people in positions such as theirs darn near live their lives in contact with lawyers. They don’t make a move without consulting one first. It’s how they are wired…
:shrug:

caphill

01-27-2006, 12:44 AM

Originally posted by csi_fan_01

I can't say this is a total admission of guilty; however, the Ramseys sought help from a friend of mine who is a well known defense attorney. He always polygraphs people he defends because he will not represent anyone he feels is guilty of the crime the defendant is being charged. When he made this request of the Ramseys, he never heard another word from them again.

We were left with only option we could find. They wouldn't take the polygraph because they knew they probably wouldn't pass it because they have something to hide. Whether it be they conspired with another person or perpetrated the crime remains to be seen but since then, I have always looked at them as being guilty.

Also, please note. No prosecutors, judges, juries, grand juries, police officers or defense attorneys are without error. Everyone makes mistakes. I haven't followed this case very closely but I can say that it is very neglient that nothing else has been done about this horrific crime to this child. One can only hope that the person who perpetrated such violence on this little girl will never forget and live in their own personal hell for the rest of their life. If that's the Ramseys or not, so be it.

Your friend, the well known defense attorney really doesn't value client/lawyer previlege very much does he? I would suspect this manner of polygraphing his potential clients and then making discussing his opinion of their guilt innocence with his friends has gotten him disbarred by now.

audpaud

01-27-2006, 04:09 AM

Originally posted by ArthurThorp
. . .
Why are those suspects being protected by the Boulder cops and by the Governor of Colorado? . . .

ummm, ok I give up . . . WHY?

threesnugbugs

01-27-2006, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by caphill

Your friend, the well known defense attorney really doesn't value client/lawyer previlege very much does he? I would suspect this manner of polygraphing his potential clients and then making discussing his opinion of their guilt innocence with his friends has gotten him disbarred by now.

csi states:

"He always polygraphs people he defends because he will not represent anyone he feels is guilty of the crime the defendant is being charged. When he made this request of the Ramseys, he never heard another word from them again.

We were left with only option we could find. "

It was stated in less words by csi and assumed that the lawyer friend required a poly BEFORE he would take them as clients. He never heard from them again, seems to me he didn't break any lawyer/client privlege since they never were his clients.

Jayelles

01-30-2006, 04:02 AM

caphill

01-30-2006, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by Jayelles

Would attorney-client privilege apply if they were never his cleints?

What I find more puzzling is that the Ramseys have never been charged with any crime - so why were they looking for a defence lawyer? Their lawyer (Lin wood) specialises in libel.

You betcha. They made an appointment and had a consultation with him. When they didn't agree with his terms for hire he goes out into the community and discusses his meeting with them.

Besides the fact client/lawyer privilege bars him from doing that, can you just imagine the damage he would do to his business as a defense attorney if potential clients knew he required a polygraph that is so unreliable that it can not be introduced into court of law. And if by chance it didn't work out this attorney would blab outside his office to prejudice you in the community.

I think your friend was just pulling your leg by telling you that story to further poison the Ramseys. They need a libel lawyer to protect them from just this kind of thing. Of course I didn't believe the story anyway based the ethical questions of a defense attorney acting as polygrapher as a condition for hire. Unheard of!

rashomon

01-31-2006, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by Deneece
The only reason I mention my son (who would be thirteen in May) is because I can understand behavior for grieving families. In my case, I wanted to be strong for everyone around me, to show no emotion, for I knew that once I let go I would lose control. My sisters were falling apart, yet I was their shoulder and I didn’t shed a tear (in public anyway) and I was very stoic. Part of me was in shock, but part of me was terrified to show any emotion. OK…had my son not died in a hospital of natural causes, I am sure I would be scrutinized for my unemotional state…by appearance anyway…as it was, I got yelled at for being a cold “b***” and for “not caring that my son was dead”…etc…by the sisters who had lost someone close to them for the first time in our lives…eventually, we found an outlet and were able to mend…it took a few years… So, don’t judge people by how they do or don’t react, inside it would tear your heart out whether you were responsible or not.

But if you had lost your son to a brutal murder, can you imagine you would have stated a few days after the murder, that you were "not angry" about your child's death and "wanted to move on with your life"?
For this is exactly what the Ramseys said in their infamous CNN interview on New Year's Day 1997.
And btw, in that interview Patsy also mentioned the Susan Smith and the OJ Simpson case. Quite telling too.

Deneece

01-31-2006, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by rashomon

But if you had lost your son to a brutal murder, can you imagine you would have stated a few days after the murder, that you were "not angry" about your child's death and "wanted to move on with your life"?
For this is exactly what the Ramseys said in their infamous CNN interview on New Year's Day 1997.
And btw, in that interview Patsy also mentioned the Susan Smith and the OJ Simpson case. Quite telling too.
No…you are right, it took me a long time before I decided to “get on with my life”…nor would I refer to my son as “that child”…I just wanted to make the point that people react and grieve differently. I knew a woman that had several miscarriages and seemed rather blaze` about the whole thing, yet saw another woman who had a miscarriage and fell apart (even requiring counseling)…so it happens that not everyone reacts as might be expected.

Here is another point on the matter…the first time I saw the video of Susan Smith begging for her sons return, I was outraged to hear that the police were looking at her as suspect…why the heck aren’t they out there getting that SOB?…for one thing, I could not believe a mother would do such a thing to her children as cause them harm…for another, she was reacting as I thought I would, crying and pleading…even when they found the boys, I didn’t believe…only when I heard that she confessed…(to this day I will never understand the why she did it)

Oh…and do you happen to know where I can read a copy of that interview…I remember seing it on TV, and even remember portions were replayed on other programs, but would like to read it and glean a perspective from use of phrases and verbiage without the added influence of voice and expression. Thanx…d…

audpaud

02-01-2006, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by Deneece

…the first time I saw the video of Susan Smith begging for her sons return

I remember seeing this also and immediately thought Susan was involved--basically because The Dad looked like crud but she had done her hair up with bow and had make up on! I think her tears were genuine at this press conference but were shed for herself.

Oh…and do you happen to know where I can read a copy of that interview……

I'd like to read this as well.

Deneece

02-01-2006, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by audpaud

I remember seeing this also and immediately thought Susan was involved--basically because The Dad looked like crud but she had done her hair up with bow and had make up on! I think her tears were genuine at this press conference but were shed for herself.

I'd like to read this as well. I guess I have a hard time with mother/murder cases because I just cannot fathom it. As women, we go through so much to have our babies…then we nurse them, hold them, sooth their tears and worry about them. Even as my children grow, I cannot bear the thought of them leaving my house and ‘growing up’. Separation from them is almost like a piece of myself missing, when they go to camp, part of me enjoys a little piece and quiet, but I feel lost at the same time and anticipate their return.

I suppose I just have the wrong assumption that all mothers would feel this way and can’t imagine a mother not just harming her own child (ren), but planning and executing the murder of him/her/them as well as participating in elaborate cover-ups…rage killings are something entirely different than the cold-hearted planned murder such as Susan Smiths case.

I know it happens, we have seen evidence of those cases, but I instinctively draw away from that possibility unless it is proven beyond any doubt.

csiwannabe

02-01-2006, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Deneece
I don’t wish to comment on this case, I have followed it closely but totally unsure…too much points to the parents, yet there is contradictory evidence so until I see more concrete info, I will remain on the fence here.

Now…I just wanted to comment on this statement… First, let me say I feel very sad for your families loss…how tragic…it truly rips at my heart to hear how others have suffered and brings to me the loss of my own child. The only reason I mention my son (who would be thirteen in May) is because I can understand behavior for grieving families. In my case, I wanted to be strong for everyone around me, to show no emotion, for I knew that once I let go I would lose control. My sisters were falling apart, yet I was their shoulder and I didn’t shed a tear (in public anyway) and I was very stoic. Part of me was in shock, but part of me was terrified to show any emotion. OK…had my son not died in a hospital of natural causes, I am sure I would be scrutinized for my unemotional state…by appearance anyway…as it was, I got yelled at for being a cold “b***” and for “not caring that my son was dead”…etc…by the sisters who had lost someone close to them for the first time in our lives…eventually, we found an outlet and were able to mend…it took a few years… So, don’t judge people by how they do or don’t react, inside it would tear your heart out whether you were responsible or not.

As for these people getting a lawyer right off the bat, no surprise there. Wealthy people in positions such as theirs darn near live their lives in contact with lawyers. They don’t make a move without consulting one first. It’s how they are wired…
:shrug:
Thank you for your thoughts! So often it is easy for us to be upset because we don't see certain emotions that we feel we should. It's good to hear another side to such a horrible situation and I appreciate your words.

Deneece

02-01-2006, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by csiwannabe

Thank you for your thoughts! So often it is easy for us to be upset because we don't see certain emotions that we feel we should. It's good to hear another side to such a horrible situation and I appreciate your words. Thank you…it gives me pause to post personal information and something so personal is (even after this length of time) still difficult to talk about, but sometimes we must draw on personal experiences to compare with reactions such as the Ramseys. I have seen the gamut of responses to the loss of loved ones whether they were accidents or natural causes. I have witnessed anger, shock, sorrow, etc… as well as, surprisingly, laughter. When I was younger (in HS) a dear friend was in a car accident and died. When I went to the funeral, as expected, most everyone was crying or had a dazed look about them, but a few hours later at the feast, even her family was laughing and cracking jokes (our culture has a feast and give-away after a funeral)…I was confused! Only with maturity and the advent of a few more funerals did I realize that it’s also part of ‘coping’, a strategy that my culture developed over time to deal with the tragedies they suffered as a whole….I also read it somewhere (I can’t take credit for all of it!)

Anyway…I also wanted to respond to your post in particular because I noticed where you were from…I “did time” in Ketchikan as well as Sitka, AK…I say “did time” because I felt so claustrophobic on those small islands…especially after growing up in the wide-open spaces of Wyoming. But I will admit that I found the people to be interesting and the scenery (on the few days it didn’t rain) absolutely stunning…I also enjoyed the ferry system of AK as well (the few times I had off from two full time jobs, for Alaska is a dam expensive place to live)…never maid it to the mainland though and only “did time” in the islands

Jayelles

02-02-2006, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by caphill

You betcha. They made an appointment and had a consultation with him. When they didn't agree with his terms for hire he goes out into the community and discusses his meeting with them.

Besides the fact client/lawyer privilege bars him from doing that, can you just imagine the damage he would do to his business as a defense attorney if potential clients knew he required a polygraph that is so unreliable that it can not be introduced into court of law. And if by chance it didn't work out this attorney would blab outside his office to prejudice you in the community.

I think your friend was just pulling your leg by telling you that story to further poison the Ramseys. They need a libel lawyer to protect them from just this kind of thing. Of course I didn't believe the story anyway based the ethical questions of a defense attorney acting as polygrapher as a condition for hire. Unheard of!

I take your point about the consultation binding him to attorney/client privilege, but I think you are wrong about the polygraph.

I know many lawyers and some are picky about clients. They have morals and ethics and don't feel they could defend murderers or rapists. I think a lawyer would be well within his/her rights to ask a potential client if they would be willing to submit to a polygraph.

caphill

02-02-2006, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by Deneece
I don’t wish to comment on this case, I have followed it closely but totally unsure…too much points to the parents, yet there is contradictory evidence so until I see more concrete info, I will remain on the fence here.

Now…I just wanted to comment on this statement… First, let me say I feel very sad for your families loss…how tragic…it truly rips at my heart to hear how others have suffered and brings to me the loss of my own child. The only reason I mention my son (who would be thirteen in May) is because I can understand behavior for grieving families. In my case, I wanted to be strong for everyone around me, to show no emotion, for I knew that once I let go I would lose control. My sisters were falling apart, yet I was their shoulder and I didn’t shed a tear (in public anyway) and I was very stoic. Part of me was in shock, but part of me was terrified to show any emotion. OK…had my son not died in a hospital of natural causes, I am sure I would be scrutinized for my unemotional state…by appearance anyway…as it was, I got yelled at for being a cold “b***” and for “not caring that my son was dead”…etc…by the sisters who had lost someone close to them for the first time in our lives…eventually, we found an outlet and were able to mend…it took a few years… So, don’t judge people by how they do or don’t react, inside it would tear your heart out whether you were responsible or not.

As for these people getting a lawyer right off the bat, no surprise there. Wealthy people in positions such as theirs darn near live their lives in contact with lawyers. They don’t make a move without consulting one first. It’s how they are wired…
:shrug:

Thank you for sharing your painful personal experience. One thing I noticed was how in public you appeared very stoic and only in private was where you could grieve.

I am amazed how many people will judge someone they never met and have seen on TV for sometimes a minute or two because they are not behaving as they believe they should be behaving.

I heard read long rambling posts of where someone's words are analyzed and determined to show guilt because they just know that is not what a grieving person should say.

There is no way to know whether the someone medicated, in shock and numb. My, my how easy to judge when we are not walking in someone else's shoes.

caphill

02-02-2006, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Jayelles

I take your point about the consultation binding him to attorney/client privilege, but I think you are wrong about the polygraph.

I know many lawyers and some are picky about clients. They have morals and ethics and don't feel they could defend murderers or rapists. I think a lawyer would be well within his/her rights to ask a potential client if they would be willing to submit to a polygraph.

Why would someone chose to be a defense attorney and not live up the ethics that everyone is entitled to a fair trial and a defense.

Firstly attorneys are not polygraphers. Secondly polygraphs are not admissable in court.. Even if they were admissable can you imagine the Court allowing a polygraph that was done by the clients own attorney.

I would think any attorney requiring a polygraph as a condition of hire would be disbarred . The defense attorney is not the trier of fact and doesn't have the right to make a judgement of a client guilt or innocence based on something that is not allowed in the Court. That goes against the grain of even being a defense attorney.

rashomon

02-02-2006, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by Deneece

Oh…and do you happen to know where I can read a copy of that interview…I remember seing it on TV, and even remember portions were replayed on other programs, but would like to read it and glean a perspective from use of phrases and verbiage without the added influence of voice and expression. Thanx…d…
I live in Germany and have never been able to see the CNN New Year's day 1997 interview on TV; I found that quote from the interview in Steve Thomas' book.
But I'd like to read a transcript of this interview too! Maybe someone else here on the board could direct us to it?

audpaud

02-02-2006, 01:39 PM

Parts 1 & 2
Is this it?:confused:

EarlyPrime
Interview With Parents of Slain Child Beauty Queen
Aired January 1, 1997 - 4:34 p.m. ET
NATALIE ALLEN, CNN ANCHOR: And Brian is here, he conducted an exclusive interview today with the child's parents, John and Patricia Ramsey.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: First of all, from a newsstand point, a couple of item's came out, the Ramsey are going to be putting together their own investigative team, they say, private investigates. This is not meant as any disrespect, they say, for the Colorado authorities. They just want the best mind possible, they say, looking into this crime.

Secondly, they will be offering a reward perhaps as much as $50,000 starting next week. It has been a very difficult week as you might expect for the Ramsey family, a very difficult interview as well, we talked to them for about 45 minutes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL (off-camera): Why did you decide you wanted to talk now?

JOHN B. RAMSEY, JONBENET'S FATHER: Well we have been pretty isolated -- totally isolated -- for the last five days, but we've sensed from our friends that this tragedy has touched not just ourselves and our friends but many people. And we know that there's many people that are praying for us, that are grieving with us. And we want to thank them, to let them know that we are healing, and that we know in our hearts that JonBenet is safe and with God and that the grieving that we all have to do is for ourselves and for our loss, but we want to thank those people that care about us.

PATRICIA RAMSEY, JONBENET'S MOTHER: We have just been overwhelmed by the cards and letters and visits and people we haven't seen for years have come to call and be supportive in their -- many of them are parents, and they know and can feel our grief.

RAMSEY, J: But the other -- the other reason is that -- for our grief to resolve itself we now have to find out why this happened.

CABELL: There has been some question as to why you hired a defense attorney.

RAMSEY, J: I know. Well, we were fortunate from almost the moment that we found the note to be surrounded by friends, our minister, our family doctor, a personal friend of mine who is also an attorney, and we relied on their guidance almost from that moment on and my friend suggested that it would be foolish not to have knowledgeable counsel to help both us and with the investigation.

RAMSEY, P: And if anyone knows anything, please, please help us. For the safety of all of the children, we have to find out who did this.

RAMSEY, J: Not because we're angry, but because we have got to go on.

RAMSEY, P: We can't -- we can't --

RAMSEY, J: This -- we cannot go on until we know why. There's no answer as to why our daughter died.

CABELL: Are you fully convinced that your daughter was kidnapped by some outsiders outside your family or circle of friends?

RAMSEY, J: Yes. I -- we don't -- you know, it's just so hard to know, but we are -- our family is a loving family. It's a gentle family. We have lost one child. We know how precious their lives are .

CABELL: Mrs. Ramsey -- you found the note. Was it a handwritten note, three pages?

RAMSEY, P: I didn't -- I couldn't read the whole thing I -- I just gotten up. We were on our -- it was the day after Christmas, and we were going to go visiting, and it was quite early in the morning, and I had got dressed and was on my way to the kitchen to make some coffee, and we have a back staircase from the bedroom areas, and I always come down that staircase, and I am usually the first one down. And the note was lying across the -- three pages -- across the run of one of the stair treads, and it was kind of dimly lit.

It was just very early in the morning, and I started to read it, and it was addressed to John. It said "Mr. Ramsey," And it said, "we have your daughter." And I -- you know, it just was -- it just wasn't registering, and I -- I may have gotten through another sentence. I can't -- "we have your daughter." and I don't know if I got any further than that. And I immediately ran back upstairs and pushed open her door, and she was not in her bed, and I screamed for John.

CABELL: John, you subsequently read the note. Was there anything in there that struck you in any sense?

RAMSEY, J: Well, no. I mean, I read it very fast. I was out of my mind. And it said "Don't call the police." You know, that type of thing. And I told Patsy, call the police immediately. And I think I ran through the house a bit.

RAMSEY, P: We went to check our son.

RAMSEY, J: Checked our son's room. Sometimes she sleeps in there. And we just were --

RAMSEY, P: We were just frantic.

CABELL: How did you happen later to look in the basement?

RAMSEY, J: Well, we'd waited until after the time that the call was supposed to have been made to us, and one of the detectives asked me and my friend who was there to go through every inch of the house to see if there was anything unusual or abnormal that looked out of place.

RAMSEY, P: Look for clues I guess.

RAMSEY, J: Look for clues, asking us to do that, give us something more to do to occupy our mind, and so we started in the basement, and -- and we were just looking, and we -- one room in the basement that -- when I opened the door -- there were no windows in that room, and I turned the light on, and I -- that was her.

RAMSEY, P: She was --

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL (on camera): Mr. Ramsey did confirm that duct tape was found on his daughter's mouth. I asked him about a cord found around her neck, that was a report out of Colorado today, he said he didn't see, it could have been there but he was panicked at that point. He picked up the body, ran screaming upstairs, hoping she was still alive, of course she was not.

There was also a reference to another child that was lost. They lost his daughter -- his adult daughter -- about four years ago in an auto accident. This is the second child they have lost.

Coming up in just a few minutes, we address the question -- I address the question -- to them of their being suspects themselves. That's natural in a case like this and we'll ask them about that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LOU WATERS, CNN ANCHOR: At this hour we're concentrating on the murder of JonBenet Ramsey which has shocked and saddened many in her home town of Boulder, Colorado.

ALLEN: CNN's Brian Cabell this afternoon had exclusive interview with her parents and he's here again with more of the emotional interview after the killing.

CABELL: As you know in cases like this it's very normal police procedure to look at the family first of all as possible suspects in this case. The Ramsey's say they understand this, they're well aware of the Susan Smith case of a couple of years ago, they understand that possibly they would be looked at suspiciously and they say they accept this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Deneece

02-02-2006, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by rashomon

I live in Germany and have never been able to see the CNN New Year's day 1997 interview on TV; I found that quote from the interview in Steve Thomas' book.
But I'd like to read a transcript of this interview too! Maybe someone else here on the board could direct us to it? Well…jeepers…I just noticed your location is Germany! (kick me for even being too dumb to be blond)…I lived in Germany when I was 4-6 yrs old…have some recollection but not a great deal. I do know that when we moved back to the states, my education was 1 ½ yrs beyond the typical first grader here. I wasn’t just an army brat, I was THE army brat…lol…

Anyhoooo….back to the story at hand, it took quite a bit of searching and then…duh…it was found so easy that I am not going to give you my key word searches because I feel like an idiot for not thinking of it first…

Transcript of interview…
http://www.cnn.com/US/9701/11/slain.girl.update/transcript.html

Interesting;
http://www.acandyrose.com/12261996-911.htm

Here’s some interesting tidbits relating to the Ramsey’s and the Jon Benet case; http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/primer2/primer9_sideshow.html

audpaud

02-02-2006, 01:40 PM

CABELL (off camera): You were asked shortly thereafter for a hair sample and writing sample, blood sample. Who else was asked for this?

RAMSEY, J: Well, Patsy and I, Burke, our son, who is nine, every family member.

CABELL: Including your two elder children?

RAMSEY, J: Uh-huh.

CABELL: Any friends?

RAMSEY, J: I don't know.

CABELL: Now, did you give the samples?

RAMSEY, J: Uh-huh.

CABELL: Oh, really? Because the word was that they thought you were too grief stricken. So both of you, you gave samples?

RAMSEY, J: Yes.

CABELL: Were you offended by that?

RAMSEY, J: No.

RAMSEY, P: It was difficult. But, you know, they need to know -- I mean our hand prints are all over our home, so they need to know if there's -- if there are other ones --

CABELL: The police said a couple of days ago, to assure other residents of Boulder there is no killer on the loose here, you can be assured everything is under control. You believe it's someone outside your home.

RAMSEY, P: There is a killer on the loose.

RAMSEY, J: Absolutely.

RAMSEY, P: I don't know who it is. I don't know if it's a he or a she. But if I were a resident of Boulder, I would tell my friends to keep -- keep your babies close to you, there's someone out there.

CABELL: An FBI spokesman was quoted as saying at this point they don't regard it necessarily as a kidnapping. You think that's a wrong assumption?

RAMSEY, J: I don't know. I mean, there is a -- a note that said -- your daughter has been kidnapped. We have your daughter. We want money. You give us the money; she'll be safely returned.

RAMSEY, P: It seemed like kidnapping to me.

RAMSEY, J: I guess that's what concerns me because if we don't have the full resources of all the law enforcement community on this case, I am going to be very upset.

CABELL: Inevitably, speculation on talk shows will focus on you. It's got to be a sickening --

RAMSEY, J: It's nauseating beyond belief.

RAMSEY, P: You know, America has just been hurt so deeply with the -- this -- the tragic things that have happened. The young woman who drove her children into the water, and we don't know what happened with the O.J. Simpson -- and I mean, America is suffering because have lost faith in the American family.

We are a Christian, God-fearing family. We love our children. We would do anything for our children.

CABELL: Do you truly think the perpetrator will be found?

RAMSEY, J: Yes. Yes. Has to be found.

CABELL: Do you think it's a single individual?

RAMSEY, J: Yes. In my heart I do.

CABELL: Do you take some comfort in believing that JonBenet Ramsey is in a better place.

RAMSEY, J: Yes. That's the one thing we want people dealing with us to know, to believe that, we know that in our heart.

RAMSEY, P: She'll never have to know the loss of a child . She will never have to know cancer or death of a child.

RAMSEY, J: We learned when we lost our first child that people would come forward to us, that sooner or later everyone carries a very heavy burden in this life. And JonBenet didn't carry any burdens.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABELL: The Ramseys are staying here in the Atlanta area with family right now. They say they intend to go back to Boulder within a few days, precisely when they're not quite sure. They say when they go back they will sit down with the Boulder police. They will talk. They will tell them anything they want to know.

ALLEN: Brian, are police saying anymore about the investigation? Leads or evidence from the home?

CABELL: Police have not been particularly forthcoming about leads perhaps deliberately so, but they have said very little as to forced entry, anything like that we simply do not know. The police are keeping that to themselves at this point.

WATERS: What's intriguing to me is the Boulder cop said -- assured the public -- there was no killer on the loose. Now, that suggests they may have a line on who did this. Isn't that what --

CABELL: You start to question that, but keep in mind this was the first and only murder in Boulder this year so there was a bit of panic, a bit of alarm in the community. I think the police were simply trying to tell them: Don't worry we have everything under control, we have police out in the streets. They did step up their surveillance, so perhaps that's the way to explain that.

ALLEN: When was the last time they saw JonBenet Ramsey?

CABELL: When they put her to bed Christmas night, as a matter of fact, and sometime between the time they put her to bed and 5:50 or so the following morning she was apparently abducted from her bed.

WATERS: Did I hear the Ramseys are putting out some money to hire private investigators?

CABELL: They will be assembling their own private investigative team, exactly how many individuals we don't know, but private investigators, attorneys, they say they want the best investigative minds in the country. They want to coordinate this with the authorities in Boulder and the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. But they are hiring their own people and offer a reward starting next week.

WATERS: What kind of reward?

CABELL: Fifty-thousand dollars was the figure he tossed out there. He wasn't absolutely certain but he thought it would be at least $50,000.

ALLEN: Was there something that struck you the most from your conversation with them?

CABELL: It's just looking at two parents, myself being a parent. It's very difficult to conduct an interview, very difficult to be interviewed about losing a six-year-old child especially in such a violent way.

WATERS: Did you try hard to get them to sit down and talk? Most folks, in this kind of situation, I would think, would be very reluctant to sit in front of a television camera.

CABELL: They said that they had to get over this five of six days of grieving and burying their daughter, now they want to get on with this new stage of their life, and that is: finding the killer. They wanted to get this off their chest, they want to get this in motion.

Deneece

02-02-2006, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by caphill

Thank you for sharing your painful personal experience. One thing I noticed was how in public you appeared very stoic and only in private was where you could grieve.

I am amazed how many people will judge someone they never met and have seen on TV for sometimes a minute or two because they are not behaving as they believe they should be behaving.

I heard read long rambling posts of where someone's words are analyzed and determined to show guilt because they just know that is not what a grieving person should say.

There is no way to know whether the someone medicated, in shock and numb. My, my how easy to judge when we are not walking in someone else's shoes. Sometimes, I think irony is the thread of life, woven so tightly into its makeup that it takes a closer look to even see it. As I have been going over the numerous posts, I had the opportunity to review my own posts. I was stunned to learn that I had answered my own question…the one of the many that I asked when first coming to this board…I wanted to know how individuals were so steadfast in their defense of McD in the face of overwhelming evidence and with the ludicrous claims by McD (even if he were not guilty, and the “drugged hippies” were responsible, some of his assertions have been beyond logic)…and there it was, on a completely different thread (the Jon Benet thread), I had the answer….

After re-reading my own post about Susan Smith, I realized that I had answered the question…these people (like myself) could not fathom such actions by a parent (in my case, a mother). Even in the face of overwhelming evidence, I could not believe…I even, at first, thought her confession was forced or coerced…but within a few minutes, I realized, “NO! That ***** DID do it!” I was quite shocked, and with realization, came the questions “why?”, if she did not want them, why not give them to their father or someone else…and “how could a mother do such a thing…all for a man?” My kids will always come before anyone else and cannot comprehend a woman like this.

It answered my question about undying support for someone like McD. Even to the point of grasping at straws or trying to make sense of the illogical…

This case is only fascinating to me because of the depth of knowledge the people have here, of both the pro and anti McDonald posters. It is also fascinating to see the way peoples minds work on both sides of the issues. The psychological aspects are revealing as well. The case, itself is frankly, very difficult to understand, no matter what side you are on because it wrenches at your stomach to study the evidence. More to the point, whether he did it or not, the man is not the picture of someone who lost people, for he barely speaks of them as the wife and children with personalities…they are secondary to him…for the interviews I have read and the statements he makes, it’s always all about him. (***just a noteworthy observation to be interpreted as you like)

I will be doing more research on this case and my books are in now so I am going to be quite busy in my reading and will probably not be here as often as I have in the past couple of weeks. I will, of course check in from time to time, especially if there is a question or point to make…(btw; in his statement in which he states he took boxing lessons, does anyone else realize that he never indicates that he struck/punched anyone else, just that he “struggled” with them…odd…don’t boxers instinctively, you know, box?…and there has never been any indications of abrasions on the fists so either he lied about being a boxer or he lied about someone attacking him because a boxer would fight out of instinct) And allow those of you with your vast knowledge continue to debate these issues…I can only hope to be as good at it and as knowledgeable as some of you are…

I am humbled as well as being impressed…good luck until next time…d…

I agree…I’ve seen people say “oh she was crying and carrying on, it was so overdone, I think it was a little too much so she must be covering up something” then someone else say “oh, she was so unemotional…she had to have done it because she just didn’t care, not one tear!”…can’t win for losing I believe….

The only case where I was taken aback was the DR case, I just cannot connect with the celebratory atmosphere and silly string at the graves…but I would never consider that ‘evidence’ in any case…just that it was ‘out of sync’…still, no one can truly see what is in another’s heart when they lose someone that close and if we judge others based upon our own reactions and not realize that everyone handles crisis differently.

In cases of emergency, I freeze…it’s like I become disconnected with everything around me, including my own body…things seem to slow down and I can’t seem to move or think…twice in my life I was physically attacked and nearly raped, yet could not scream or move…and both times I could barely whisper that if the individual did not stop I’d scream…that was it! Yet if it they had completed their act (in one case in the back of a ½ full bus of people) I’m sure people wouldn’t believe me, because they’d say “Jeeze, she didn’t even cry out for help or scream…and look, she didn’t even try to fight them off…I don’t think it happened”…

I guess in all my rambling, what I’m trying to say is that we are all wired differently…and react differently…sometimes even contrary to what we claim we’d do in “that situation”…I always swore that I’d “kick a guy in the **** if he ever tried anything on me”…yet my mind was such a blank that I froze, body, brain, and soul…

I think that I’d rather put my trust in hard evidence…coupled with circumstantial evidence…and logic when reviewing these things, rather than trusting reactionary (knee jerk) evidence. Unless you've been there, you just don't know...and even if you have a similar experience, you still don't know because you are not inside that person nor do you know what is going on inside their heads/emotions/family/etc...

rashomon

02-04-2006, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by Icculus

I feel that defies common sense and logic. What makes sense is that Patsy wrote the note. It matches her sample almost exactly, and no I don't believe that to be a coincidence. It also matches her way of speaking. It makes no sense that an intruder wrote that note and then killed her and left her in the house. The note is a staged red herring IMO. I can't fathom how you imagine an intruder writing this.
Exactly. The note was written on paper from a notepad in Patsy's kitchen, and just imagine an intruder sitting at the kitchen table and write that lengthy note obviously without any fear of being detected. Completely absurd.
I think that the Ramseys originally wanted to dump JB's body somewhere outside, but finally didn't dare to do it because they tought it was too risky. It had snowed and they would leave prints in the snow. In addition, they could be seen because there are always people up at night who might look out their windows.
They then decide to stage a scene and write the ransom note.
Which is why we have that bizarre scenario unparalleled in criminal history (as far as I know): a dead alleged kidnapping victim found in her own home together with a ransom note.

Ross

02-09-2006, 12:19 PM

On the news the other evening it was said that new evidence in the Ramsey case was found.Anyone know what they found?My money is still on the parents.Cant understand to this day why the parents would not cooperate in this murder of this little girl.

theresak1978

02-09-2006, 12:45 PM

This is all I've heard and found recently.

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_3470571

Ross

02-09-2006, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by theresak1978
This is all I've heard and found recently.

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_3470571

Thank you .
Must be nice visiting attorneys & the D.A.

DiddleySquat

02-09-2006, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by Ross
On the news the other evening it was said that new evidence in the Ramsey case was found.Anyone know what they found?My money is still on the parents.Cant understand to this day why the parents would not cooperate in this murder of this little girl. I presume you meant you can't understand why the parents wouldn't cooperate in solving the case.

Okay, I got that impression, too. I recall something about the father calling for his private plane when the body was found. They wanted to get as far away as possible. That and the weird "ransom note" convinced me that the parents should be the main suspects, if not the only ones.

02-10-2006, 01:45 PM

Neither of Jon Benet's parents put that garrotte around that little girl's throat IMO.

SilSal

02-10-2006, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by MyrDawn
The parents are no longer suspects, even to the police.

The problem with the case is the detectives that investigated it at the time pretty much ignored any evidence that pointed to anyone other than the Ramseys, until years after the murder. Too little, too late.

So much time has passed, that even though those same detectives now believe it was one or two intruders, and not her parents, it's probably too late to ever solve the case.

Mixed with Jon Benet's blood in the underwear she was wearing the night she was murdered was the DNA of an unknown person. A small amount of that same persons DNA was also found under her fingernails. It belonged to neither of her parents. That's why the police no longer believe they did it. They believe that person, (possibly with an accomplice), that left the unidentified DNA was her killer.

You can read more about it here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

The parents have NOT been cleared and the only detective that thinks they are innocent and there was an intruder is Lou Smit..

The DNA was degraded so they know nothing.

An intruder did not do this. The parents were completely involved...jmo

audpaud

02-10-2006, 02:19 PM

Can't get the scenario straight in my mind---similar to Darlie Routier--BUT--in both cases I think the parents are involved.:( Actions speak louder than words.

rashomon

02-10-2006, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by MyrDawn
The parents are no longer suspects, even to the police.
Not true. They have not been eliminated as suspects, and therefore are not cleared at all.

audpaud

02-11-2006, 05:13 AM

Originally posted by litch1
. . . LA LA LAND!

At the dreaded risk of being accused of being in lala whatevah . . . why are you so sure the parents are not guilty of some involvement?:confused:

Please spare me the painful details of the botched police investigation as I'm aware of those . . . I'm more interested in your obvious scorn for those that think the Ramsey's behavior was flat stinkin' of guilty of something. (jmo:D )

angelhair

05-09-2006, 09:56 PM

Ive been reading others oppinions of this case. It is really sad how some people are so uninformed.Thats who's been buying all the tabloids!?
Can anyone explain why a child abductor/ransom criminal would break into a strangers house on x-mas(not knowing if there are visitors staying and where they are sleeping)without any sign of forced entry,without a weapon,without a ransom note already written.Then go dirrectly to the childs room (care enough about her to wrap her in her favorite blanket take her downstairs and sit at the table write a rough draft ransom the write the real one at least2 and a half pages while feeding her pinapple. then take her to the basement and kill her (all weopon were found in the house(except the soposed stun gun?).still leave the ransom note only asking for a fairly small amount( the exact amount of the bonus check) and expect to get the money? ok. why did the killer take her to the basement to kill her? It's not like something went wrong on the way out because they didn't come through the soposed broken window(wich by the way is the only thing the ramsey's call forced entry who john admitted broke it himself.
why did patsy first go to the neighbors and then the cops when the letter said he was watching and to alert family and the cops would be a death sentence for their child?I don't think she cared because she knew she was already dead.The killer never called?
wh was patsy photograghed at the party wearing the same thing she had on when police arrived? what didn't the rich lady get any new clothes for x-mas.I know i would never put on the same clothes I partied in the night before! guess who was up all night!?
anyone want to chat?

bandit's mom

05-10-2006, 03:36 PM

Well, I never read tabloids, so I really don't know what your
reference is there. As for many of the other points, I agree
that many of the items you've cited seem quite suspicious (although the lack of a clothes change, taken by itself, doesn't
mean much to me). I would assume most of the other questions
are reasons that the Ramsey's were under suspicion, and
still are in many people eyes. I'm certainly not convinced of
their innocence, but neither could I say that I am 100% convinced
of their guilt. My leaning would still be toward guilt, but clearly
there doesn't seem to by enough actual evidence of that to
warrant an indictment. I'm not sure the reasons for that. The
state of CA managed to convict Scott Peterson on not much
more than a circumstantial case (and yes, I am 100% convinced
of his guilt), but, for whatever reason, the state of Colorado
doesn't feel they can do so with the Ramsey's. Perhaps it's
just a case of not knowing exactly WHICH one to charge?

At any rate, sadly, I seriously doubt there will ever be justice
for JonBenet.

Hotwater

05-10-2006, 06:54 PM

Bumping it for newcomers!

--Hotwater

Hotwater

05-10-2006, 06:55 PM

jonbenet ramsay (http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?threadid=255017)

--Hh20

bandit's mom

05-10-2006, 07:38 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Deneece
[B]

Here is another point on the matter…the first time I saw the video of Susan Smith begging for her sons return, I was outraged to hear that the police were looking at her as suspect…why the heck aren’t they out there getting that SOB?…for one thing, I could not believe a mother would do such a thing to her children as cause them harm…for another, she was reacting as I thought I would,

Interesting. When I saw the video of her begging for
her sons return, I turned to my husband and said "something's
not right here, she's not telling the whole truth". Mainly, because
although she was moaning and making the appropriate sounds,
there were no tears. I freely admit, however, that is never
ocurred to me she had killed them. I was thinking more along
the lines of some kind of a custody dispute, perhaps and
elaborate ruse to keep the kids away from her ex. I never
imagined she had killed them.

I do think the whole Susan Smith affair has certainly colored
everyone's perceptions for better or worse. I think many of
us tend to look at these situations more critically.

I have close friends whose now 22 year old son was kidnapped
off their porch in Texas when he was an infant. It didn't take
them long to realize that they were the prime suspects in
what the police believed to be a murder. She was home
alone with him, and had just stepped inside to answer the phone. The father was working, but as a Real Estate Agent,
he was out of the office and unaccounted for.
As soon as they realized they were under suspicion they
demanded they be given polygraphs which they both passed
with flying colors. These same friends believe the Ramsey's
guilty in large part because of their reluctance to co-operate.
Certainly they are comparing their own experiences. They
said all they cared about was convincing the police to look
elsewhere since they knew they hadn't done anything.

Luckily, their son was snatched by a woman who desperately
wanted a baby and had recently miscarried. I say luckily, of
course, because he was not harmed in any way. The woman's
own mother discovered the baby, a few days after the
abduction, and contacted the authorities.

angelhair

05-10-2006, 11:48 PM

Originally posted by bandit's mom
Well, I never read tabloids, so I really don't know what your
reference is there. As for many of the other points, I agree
that many of the items you've cited seem quite suspicious (although the lack of a clothes change, taken by itself, doesn't
mean much to me). I would assume most of the other questions
are reasons that the Ramsey's were under suspicion, and
still are in many people eyes. I'm certainly not convinced of
their innocence, but neither could I say that I am 100% convinced
of their guilt. My leaning would still be toward guilt, but clearly
there doesn't seem to by enough actual evidence of that to
warrant an indictment. I'm not sure the reasons for that. The
state of CA managed to convict Scott Peterson on not much
more than a circumstantial case (and yes, I am 100% convinced
of his guilt), but, for whatever reason, the state of Colorado
doesn't feel they can do so with the Ramsey's. Perhaps it's
just a case of not knowing exactly WHICH one to charge?

At any rate, sadly, I seriously doubt there will ever be justice
for JonBenet.

you don't think patsy wearing the same clothes the next day that she partied in the night before is strange. you know the family was planning to leave on a visiting vacation and she was going to wear the same thing she had on all day at x-mas? john ramsey still was planning on going before the day was through.mourning I guess?
anyway, I've heard one of the guests at the white's x-mas party claims jonbenet asked him to help her wipe after going to the bathroom? that's odd at 6 years old! Also the maid claims every morning she would arrive for work patsy and jb would be up already with jb bed clothes in the wash because jb peed the bed .At 6 years old and a child whose in beauty pagents there something going on there! what if jb peed the bed that night went into her mothers room and woke her up to tell her and patsy lost her temper with her and ended up hitting her in the head? This would explain why jb had on underwear that were two sizes to big and the rest of the package of underwear was found in the parents room!
also have you heard if there was ever a puddle of blood where she was hit on the head? I wonder if it was in that room she was soposedly found? If nothing else was in this room then the killer had to have left her to look for the other weapons. how would the killer know this room existed?not even the maid knew of this room!It's a big cover up and there are a lot of blind people.

PRIVATE M

05-25-2006, 03:22 PM

I have theory... that just won't seem to go away.

I believe that the mother and the father new about their daughters murder.

I believe that they had her involved with child pronography and that it had been going on for awhile. I believe they were using the child as a sex slave for money and lots of it.

I believe that the sexual predator came over for sexual interacts with the child and it got out of hand. During sexual activities the person choked the child to death but not intentionally. After they discovered the child was dead; they then started the cover up of the ransom theory.

I believe the sexual predator was going to expose or blackmail the parents or parent if they told the truth about how the child really died. So the parents feared of loosing their reputation and life, if they were exposed of doing such a despicable hideous crime against their own child.

That's when they decided to cover up the crime by saying someone was there to kidnap the child for money.

That's why the mother's hand writing is consistence with the ransom letter found.

Thats why the father was able to go directly down the stairs to where the child was found.

That's why the child was found with a sweat shirt/shirt on and pajama bottoms. They may have put the bottoms on her.

She could have been dressed after she was killed. She may have never had changed closed from the party to begin with.

How did the child look at the party as far as makeup wise. Did she have make up on when she was found. How was her face... That would explain alot of theories... and cancell out.

I would like to hear someone's feed back...

PRIVATE M

05-26-2006, 12:34 PM

PRIVATE M

05-26-2006, 12:46 PM

I think there maybe be away to get justice for her murder... Did you read my thread (theory)...

It's happening all over the country... EVERWHERE! Nobody every thought that just maybe my theory maybe be an option...

Private "M"

chatwuann

05-30-2006, 03:32 PM

We are all trying to come up with our own theories in this case since it hasn't been solved and yours sounds as good as anybody elses. I have my own theories which I won't bring up since they lean toward an intruder or intruders. Because there has never been a trial in this case and the Ramseys have never been found guilty in a court of law I reserve judgement until if and when they do. JMHO

chatwuann

PRIVATE M

05-30-2006, 07:29 PM

Your right! Everyone has a right to a fair trial; even if they dont get one.

Private M

chatwuann

06-14-2006, 03:24 PM

To prove that JonBenet's death resulted in a tragic accident you have to prove an accident took place in the first place. Some see the head injury as proof of an accident but it can't be proven conclusively when it occured before or after death. Some would say conclusive proof is not needed but if I were sitting on the jury in the Ramseys trial (which I wouldn't of course) I would want something more substancial than the evidence that others have presented to prove their particular theory. So it looks like we are at a stalemate when it comes to the JonBenet Ramsey crime. Of course there is the possiblity that an arrest may be made in this case sometime in the future but will the right person responsible be arrested. The Ramseys or someone else?

chatwuann

06-14-2006, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Crabman77
The "Pedophile gang" and "sexual slavery" theories are so stupid and beyond belief that I shouldn't even be addressing them. Patsey accidentally killed JonBenet. Anyone here ever hear of Occam's Razor?

I have read Occams Razor mentioned but I haven't known what they were talking about. Care to explain?

chatwuann

06-14-2006, 03:50 PM

I forgot to mention the type of evidence one would have to have to prove an accident took place. For one thing the weapon itself with forensic evidence on it to tie it to the victim, being able to prove which room of the house the accident took place in, etc. The experts have said JonBenet was struck with a maglite flashlight but the expert was going by the picture of the skull fracture not holding it to the skull fracture to see if the shape of the flashlight and the skull fracture matched. Maglites are a common household item I daresay that if you went into homes in the US most of them would have a maglite flashlight in them. There is no proof that the Ramseys owned that brand of flashlight. Some would speculate that if Maglite flashlights are so common then it is plausible that the Ramseys owned one. Needless to say that the proof in the Ramsey case just isn't there only speculation.

JMO

f0rTyLeGz

06-14-2006, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by Crabman77:

That is just sick and disturbing. JonBenet died as the result of a tragic accident.

Oh I dont know... if she had died from a "tragic accident," then why not call the ambulance?

chatwuann

06-15-2006, 04:16 PM

In the first place there is no conclusive evidence that a "tragic accident" or any accident occured in the Ramsey house the night of Dec.25th or any other time and the Ramseys instead of calling an ambulance choose to write a long lengthy ransom note, put a garotte around JonBenet's neck, and assault her with a paintbrush handle just to make it look like an intruder did it. I think not!

JMO

f0rTyLeGz

06-15-2006, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by chatwuann
In the first place there is no conclusive evidence that a "tragic accident" or any accident occured in the Ramsey house the night of Dec.25th or any other time and the Ramseys instead of calling an ambulance choose to write a long lengthy ransom note, put a garotte around JonBenet's neck, and assault her with a paintbrush handle just to make it look like an intruder did it. I think not!

JMO

Im afraid I dont quite know what you are saying here... you "think not" about what?

Personally, I dont really know how she was killed. But the whole scene was really a mess. The investigation was a mess. The Ramseys were unhelpful and wierd. And then there was the ransom note, and that note IMHO ought to lead us right to the killer. Of course I think Patsy did it!

The note was first subjected to analysis years ago. I bet that the program that does that study has been updated a couple of times since JonBenets study was performed.

chatwuann

06-15-2006, 07:00 PM

I meant that I don't think that the Ramseys did any of the things that people say they did that night. It's just me but I don't think they are guilty. I think they would have called ambulance if a tragic accident had taken place. There is no conclusive evidence a tragic accident happened to JonBenet in that house that night. Hope that clears it up for you.

As for the Ramseys being unhelpful in the investigation it is a good thing they weren't. The BPD had made up their minds the Ramseys were guilty and wanted to put them where they thought they belonged, in jail. The officers of the BPD knew in their heart of hearts that the Ramseys didn't do it but they were prepared to go ahead with prosecution anyway.

I hope I answered your questions.

chatwuann

chatwuann

06-15-2006, 07:18 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by f0rTyLeGz

Im afraid I dont quite know what you are saying here... you "think not" about what?

Personally, I dont really know how she was killed. But the whole scene was really a mess. The investigation was a mess. The Ramseys were unhelpful and wierd. And then there was the ransom note, and that note IMHO ought to lead us right to the killer. Of course I think Patsy did it!

The note was first subjected to analysis years ago. I bet that the program that does that study has been updated a couple of times since JonBenets study was performed. [/QUOTE

I don't think the Ramseys behavior was weird at all. How would you behave if you had just found your child's dead body in your house, Which you thought had been kidnapped? The tests that were done on the note were done mostly by experts that were biased toward Patsy being the author. I daresay that a lot of people's handwriting would look similar to that of the ransom note. Besides handwriting analysis is nothing more than reading tea leaves and evidence gathered during the process isn't allowed to be introduced as evidence. I do agree that the note can lead us to the killer only if it is looked at for clues that point to the real killer. A profile might be gleaned from it that would match the killer.John Douglas suggested that the note should be put on a billboard so that the public could read it. He thought it might be recognised by someone who knew the killer because the killers personality is all over that note. There is no conclusive evidence that Patsy did it. The jury for me is still out on the whole issue of the guilt of the murderer of JonBenet.

f0rTyLeGz

06-17-2006, 04:38 PM

I was thinking not only about an updated analysis of the handwriting itself, but also of the way the the note was written, the words that were chosen and the order of the words etc.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/book_10.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ransom1.html

Ive just been reading that note again, it is really quite amazing with many coloquielisms, and many strangely personal comments to and about John and his personality. Also there are words crossed out... one where delivery is crossed out and pick-up is put in there instead. Plus, there is the length of the note... it is 2 and a half pages long, came to nothing. No one called, and no one paid attention to its demands. And JonBenet was dead in the basement.

chatwuann

06-20-2006, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by f0rTyLeGz
I was thinking not only about an updated analysis of the handwriting itself, but also of the way the the note was written, the words that were chosen and the order of the words etc.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/book_10.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/ransom1.html

Ive just been reading that note again, it is really quite amazing with many coloquielisms, and many strangely personal comments to and about John and his personality. Also there are words crossed out... one where delivery is crossed out and pick-up is put in there instead. Plus, there is the length of the note... it is 2 and a half pages long, came to nothing. No one called, and no one paid attention to its demands. And JonBenet was dead in the basement.

I have read the note and I haven't read anything in it that makes me believe that Patsy Ramsey and only Patsy Ramsey could have written it. The references to John could have come from someone who had researched him. You can go through someones trash and find out little things about them. Coupled with watching their house and learning their routine. Also listening to gossip. The length of the note could have come from the fact that the person just couldn't stop writing once he or she got going. The crossed out words could be explained by the fact that the author was writing the note with a felt tip pen and couldn't erase so he or she just crossed them out instead of starting over.

I think the person who killed JonBenet wanted to take away the most prescious thing in the world to John and Patsy Ramsey. JonBenet. I don't think he or she was after money either.

JMO

f0rTyLeGz

06-21-2006, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by chatwuann

I think the person who killed JonBenet wanted to take away the most prescious thing in the world to John and Patsy Ramsey. JonBenet.

JMO
If we go with that as the motive, it sure would cut the posibilities down to just a few people. Who on the planet cares so much about John AND Patsy Ramsey that they would commit this atrocious crime? AND come up with the plan of hiding in the house, sneaking the child downstairs and murdering her, and molesting her, and then writing the ransom note on Ramsey paper, and then sneak out of the house and go back to a life where they arent caught up in the search for a child killer.

I would think that anyone who cared that much about the Ramseys would stand out of the crowd instantly!

chatwuann

06-22-2006, 06:11 PM

I wish I could answer the Who in this case. We would know that if this person was ever apprehended. There are so many unanswered questions in this case.

AAJMO

chatwuann

06-22-2006, 06:17 PM

I forgot to add why not use items from the house. That way it would not lead back to you. I do think this person stands out in the crowd but he or she isn't wearing a big sign saying "I killed JonBenet Ramsey" and so people don't know.

oldschool

06-24-2006, 10:10 AM

I just got a news alert from msnbc that Patsy Ramsey Died of Ovarian Cancer.

Moondust

06-24-2006, 10:12 AM

Wow....now we have our third.

Find comfort in being with your daughter again, Patsy.:rose: :rose:

MissOtisRegrets

06-24-2006, 10:13 AM

:rose: :rose: :rose:

$pendi

06-24-2006, 10:15 AM

Wow. I never knew what to make of that case but I sure didn't expect this.
Poor Mr. Ramsey. :(

What do you mean by "third" Moon? Did I miss something?

DuelingAngels

06-24-2006, 10:22 AM

:eek: WOW, finally with her baby. :rose:

oldschool

06-24-2006, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by $pendi
Wow. I never knew what to make of that case but I sure didn't expect this.
Poor Mr. Ramsey. :(

What do you mean by "third" Moon? Did I miss something?

Aaron Spelling :rose:

Patsy Ramsey:rose:

Who's # 3

Moondust

06-24-2006, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by oldschool

Aaron Spelling :rose:

Patsy Ramsey:rose:

Who's # 3

E. Pierce Marshall....son of oil tycoon who was married to Anna Nicole and who's been battling Anna for years over his fathers estate.

P Jammas

06-24-2006, 10:28 AM

ovarian cancer

Iknowwhatudid

06-24-2006, 10:32 AM

RIP Patsy.:rose:

oldschool

06-24-2006, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Moondust

E. Pierce Marshall....son of oil tycoon who was married to Anna Nicole and who's been battling Anna for years over his fathers estate.

Thank You moon

$pendi

06-24-2006, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Moondust

E. Pierce Marshall....son of oil tycoon who was married to Anna Nicole and who's been battling Anna for years over his fathers estate.

Oh okay, I thought you were talking about within that particular family.
Crazy about that Son though. Bet she is already drooling (more) about easy money. :rolleyes:

incognito

06-24-2006, 10:43 AM

I have never thought that the Ramseys were guilty in the disappearance of their daughter. What a nightmare it must have been for them to wake up each morning and be reminded that not only is their daughter missing, but that people were questioning them.

For Patsy

Reality

The daylight has come to my nightmare
I am force to massage my reality,
The only rest I get is when I sleep
This nightmare keeps on haunting me.

In the depths of this inequity
I awaken each and every day,
I am a slave to the morning light
Daylight comes and takes my dreams away.

The ghost of your existence
Has not found me when I sleep,
Your memory lives on in the daylight
It's the break of dawn that makes me weep.

Truth can be stranger than fiction
Or so the saying goes,
I could not have dreamed up this nightmare
I am awake when it does impose.

My emotions have become frazzled
Your absence has worn through,
As I try to escape from this nightmare
I lie awake and think of you.

©Incognito

Nancy#1Fan

06-24-2006, 10:47 AM

oh well...............for her sake, I hope she had nothing to fear in the end. Doubt it tho

Nancy#1Fan

06-24-2006, 10:49 AM

Well, for her sake, I hope she had nothing to fear when she met her maker. I personally doubt it.

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 10:54 AM

wow everyone seems to be dying this weekend. The only one so far i'm mourning is Mr. Spelling. God bless him.

JonBenet's mom always seemed odd to me.

Nancy#1Fan

06-24-2006, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by $pendi

Oh okay, I thought you were talking about within that particular family.
Crazy about that Son though. Bet she is already drooling (more) about easy money. :rolleyes:

It's the third in the Ramsey family too. John has buried TWO daughters.

Scully

06-24-2006, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by Nancy#1Fan
Well, for her sake, I hope she had nothing to fear when she met her maker. I personally doubt it.

Me too. I will always believe that she and her husband knew more than they were telling. I'm still sorry that she went through the cancer and died at such an early age.

Nancy#1Fan

06-24-2006, 11:01 AM

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 11:02 AM

Jonbenet's mom died of ovarian cancer.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060624/ap_on_re_us/obit_patsy_ramsey_3

Amaryllisfl49

06-24-2006, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by Nancy#1Fan

Karma?

Maybe, I'm still unsure about the Ramseys.:read:

speedygonzales6

06-24-2006, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by Nancy#1Fan

Karma? What a horrible thing to say. You would be a Nancy fan. Patsy Ramsey was innocent. Shame on you.

Amaryllisfl49

06-24-2006, 11:11 AM

peachdaquari

06-24-2006, 11:12 AM

now JonBenet can tell her who did this to her.....she can finally be at peace :rose:

Scully

06-24-2006, 11:17 AM

I don't know if I believe in Karma, but according to this article she was diagnosed with cancer in 1993, about 3 years before JonBenet was killed.

She and her husband lived here for the last several years.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/9421277/detail.html

Designer

06-24-2006, 11:27 AM

Any death bed confessions?

rph3664

06-24-2006, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Scully

Me too. I will always believe that she and her husband knew more than they were telling. I'm still sorry that she went through the cancer and died at such an early age.

I don't think they did it but I do believe they knew more than they were telling. As for the 9-year-old son having done it, I doubt that a child that young would have had the strength to do what he did, and he certainly couldn't have deposited the semen that was found on her body.

The older half-brother was cleared, IIRC.

Yes, her cancer was in remission at the time of JonBenet's death, and the daughter from John's first marriage died in a car accident a few years before that.

warhorse46

06-24-2006, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by oldschool
I just got a news alert from msnbc that Patsy Ramsey Died of Ovarian Cancer.

Sorry to hear she lost her battle with cancer. Hope she can rest in peace now & be with Jon Benet.

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by speedygonzales6
What a horrible thing to say. You would be a Nancy fan. Patsy Ramsey was innocent. Shame on you. were you there that night? how do you know she was innocent?

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Moondust
Wow....now we have our third.

Find comfort in being with your daughter again, Patsy.:rose: :rose: shes the 4th. LOS ANGELES - Claydes Charles Smith, a co-founder and lead guitarist of the group Kool & the Gang, has died. He was 57.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060623/ap_en_mu/obit_smith_1

Designer

06-24-2006, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by GrrlPwer
were you there that night? how do you know she was innocent?

My thoughts exactly!!

giddyupalw

06-24-2006, 11:34 AM

I really don't have an opinion on this case but I do think this family has had a very nasty life with so much loss...Just very sad...:rose: :rose:

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by peachdaquari
now JonBenet can tell her who did this to her.....she can finally be at peace :rose: Lets just hope JonBenet doesn't say.......Mommy why did you kill me for accidently wetting the bed. :shrug:

RIP JonBenet

:rose:

Buychic

06-24-2006, 11:36 AM

http://kutv.com/topstories/topstories_story_175103609.htm

peachdaquari

06-24-2006, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by GrrlPwer
Lets just hope JonBenet doesn't say.......Mommy why did you kill me for accidently wetting the bed. :shrug:

RIP JonBenet

:rose: JD?? Or his "sister"??:rolleyes:

rondata II

06-24-2006, 11:38 AM

semen?
:confused:

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by rph3664

I don't think they did it but I do believe they knew more than they were telling. As for the 9-year-old son having done it, I doubt that a child that young would have had the strength to do what he did, and he certainly couldn't have deposited the semen that was found on her body.

The older half-brother was cleared, IIRC.

Yes, her cancer was in remission at the time of JonBenet's death, and the daughter from John's first marriage died in a car accident a few years before that. there was DNA found in her panties but there was NO semen..............get busy googling honey.

speedygonzales6

06-24-2006, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by GrrlPwer
were you there that night? how do you know she was innocent? Did I miss the trial? :confused: There was a trial and our laws found her guilty? :confused: Here I t hought there was not evenough evidence to even make an arrest. :confused:

Designer

06-24-2006, 11:47 AM

rph3664 - if Patsy and John didn't do it, but they knew more than they were telling; and

if Burke didn't do it; and

since we KNOW John's oldest son was cleared by LE;

who would Patsy and John have been protecting?

socaldiva

06-24-2006, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Vanilla~Bean
*snip*

I don't think any family member had anything to do with her death either. I'm sorry Patty lost her battle with cancer, but I'm at least happy for her that she can be with her daughter once again.

RIP, Patty. :rose:

I agree & it makes me sick that some here feel the need to attack the poor woman.

Former Juror

06-24-2006, 11:56 AM

I have very mixed feelings. I have no doubt Patty was responsible for the death of Jonbenet, but I don't wish death by cancer on anyone.

IMO

Scully

06-24-2006, 12:05 PM

TexMex

06-24-2006, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by rosyredrobin
Karma? Not unless it was "pre-planned" Karma. She had cancer prior to JonBenet's death.

http://www.charter.net/news/read.php?id=12895267&ps=1011&lang=en&_LT=HOME_USNWC01L1_UNEWS

Hi redrobin

That's the main reason I never bought into the Ramseys doing this crime.

I've known people battling cancer and it puts life into proper perspective VERY quickly. Nobody who had stage 4 cancer is going to kill their daughter over wetting the bed, IMO

oldschool

06-24-2006, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by warhorse46

Sorry to hear she lost her battle with cancer. Hope she can rest in peace now & be with Jon Benet.

Ditto warhorse.

John has sure had his burdens to bare.

Scully

06-24-2006, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Vanilla~Bean

It just goes along with the volume of "hate" thats on this board at times.

They don't care who they hate, as long as there's 'hatin' goin on'. ;)

I'm sure that in Patty's last mindful thoughts were that her arms would soon be once again around Jon Benet. :rose:

I don't 'hate' anyone not even Patsy Ramsey.

llylabrat

06-24-2006, 12:10 PM

This makes me truly sad. I have come to believe she and John did not kill their daughter and I hoped she would live to see the killer caught.

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by speedygonzales6
Did I miss the trial? :confused: There was a trial and our laws found her guilty? :confused: Here I t hought there was not evenough evidence to even make an arrest. :confused: Just because there is NO trial does not mean someone is innocent. Heck even some people like OJ have trials and are found innocent but are they REALLY innocent?

Designer

06-24-2006, 12:16 PM

I doubt that any of us "hate" Patsy Ramsey. We simply don't buy into the idea that she is innocent. Of course, we also don't wish cancer on anyone either. That having been said, we are allowed to voice our opinion about one of the biggest crimes of the 90's.

Please do not confuse our feelings about Patsy's crime with our feelings about her death.

Thank you.

MissOtisRegrets

06-24-2006, 12:19 PM

IMO neither of those parents were even remotely capable of putting a garrotte around that little girls neck.

socaldiva

06-24-2006, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets
IMO neither of those parents were even remotely capable of putting a garrotte around that little girls neck.

I agree & I think it's terrible that they had to lose their little girl that way & had to endure the pointing fingers & wagging tongues. Now Patsy's gone & some still want to trash her. Pitiful.

LettucePrey

06-24-2006, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by GrrlPwer
were you there that night? how do you know she was innocent?

because last time I looked this was still America, and EVERYONE is innocent until PROVEN guilty. You must be a Bush supporter.

Narcissist15

06-24-2006, 12:27 PM

My prayers go out to the Ramsey family........

I presume them innocent.......

as much media attention that case drew......much of it tabloid spin......

and still the case was taken twice (IIRC) to a grand jury for indictment....both times denied by the grand jury......

it may mean nothing....but to me it speaks of the total lack of any kind of evidence.......

plus I have read their book which albeit may be one-sided....I believe to be closer to the truth than what was ever reported or leaked to media.

Designer

06-24-2006, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by LettucePrey

because last time I looked this was still America, and EVERYONE is innocent until PROVEN guilty. You must be a Bush supporter.

Given your remark, you need to change your nick.

Designer

06-24-2006, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by rosyredrobin

Please - don't tell us - President Bush had something to do with JonBenet's death - right?

It's those dang WMD again!

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by LettucePrey

because last time I looked this was still America, and EVERYONE is innocent until PROVEN guilty. You must be a Bush supporter. wrong again. i voted for John Kerry! How do you come up with this bs? :lol:

Scully

06-24-2006, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by rosyredrobin

When I first opened your link the article that was there did say "infant." Please go look right below your post - I commented there. Anyway - you're right, the article that is there NOW does not say infant.

Also, in another post someone commented about the link I posted. They referenced the "infant" statement in the link I posted - and the link I posted said nothing about "infant."

I'm confused........

This is from the AJC:

"An autopsy concluded JonBenet suffered a skull fracture, and was strangled and beaten."

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/0624ramsey.html

I honestly don't remember.

Designer

06-24-2006, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by Vanilla~Bean

The fact that numerous people (including the Ramseys) were allowed to tromp through the crime scene all day long coupled with the fact that Jon Benet's own father found the body 8 hours LATER tells you that it was a botched investigation from the onset.

How well did the cops search the house with her body rotting all the while in the basement? :rolleyes:

And yet Daddy went straight to the body...

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 12:33 PM

socaldiva

06-24-2006, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by GrrlPwer
OMG i could NOT agree more. THis case was messed up from the get go. Just like OJ's and the west memphis three. I still think those three boys are innocent.

I don't think LE botched the OJ case at all. They collected the evidence that told us who did it. The botched investigation was rubbish from the defense & the jurors were morons.

TexMex

06-24-2006, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Vanilla~Bean

Wait - you said up there in another post ^^ that you thought Patsy was guilty.

Now you're blaming John too? LOL

I think you just need someone to "blame" with no proof, but hey, whatever turns your crank.

Oh, and John did not go "straight to the body".

Get your facts straight, you'll be less confused. ;)

Hi VBean:seeya:

FOX said that every week the DA runs the DNA found in JB's underwear through the DNA database of criminals (2 million) and so far no matches. The Ramsey's DNA also did not match. The hope is one day the killer will be incarcerated on another crime and they will get a match in CODIS.

Designer

06-24-2006, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Vanilla~Bean

Wait - you said up there in another post ^^ that you thought Patsy was guilty.

Now you're blaming John too? LOL

I think you just need someone to "blame" with no proof, but hey, whatever turns your crank.

Oh, and John did not go "straight to the body".

Get your facts straight, you'll be less confused. ;)

First of all - I am not confused. Yes, I did say Patsy was guilty, but I never said John wasn't guilty. The two are not mutually exclusive. On the second search of the house, John did go straight to the body. Are your facts straight?

f0rTyLeGz

06-24-2006, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by GrrlPwer
Jonbenet's mom died of ovarian cancer.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060624/ap_on_re_us/obit_patsy_ramsey_3

Grrrr!!!

Angelina

06-24-2006, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by rosyredrobin
This is so O/T, but the article described JonBenet as "infant." Do you consider a six year old an infant? I don't - not even a toddler anymore, but rather a child. Also, the article said JonBenet was "beaten." I don't remember that either.

She was beaten and raped. Someone posted the crime scene photos on yahoo one night. I didnt sleep for two days, after knowing what happened to that little girl. Only a monster could have done that to a child. :( :rose:

fight4right

06-24-2006, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by incognito

For Patsy

Reality

The daylight has come to my nightmare
I am force to massage my reality,
The only rest I get is when I sleep
This nightmare keeps on haunting me.

In the depths of this inequity
I awaken each and every day,
I am a slave to the morning light
Daylight comes and takes my dreams away.

The ghost of your existence
Has not found me when I sleep,
Your memory lives on in the daylight
It's the break of dawn that makes me weep.

Truth can be stranger than fiction
Or so the saying goes,
I could not have dreamed up this nightmare
I am awake when it does impose.

My emotions have become frazzled
Your absence has worn through,
As I try to escape from this nightmare
I lie awake and think of you.

©Incognito

Wow. Worth repeating.

SteelerFan

06-24-2006, 01:34 PM

police let everyone and their brothers in and out of the Ramsey house and didn't treat it as a crime scene, any chance of evidence being collected was totally shot. I have always believed the Ramsey's WERE involved with JonBenet's death and thought Patsy wrote the bogus kidnapping note. Remember, it went on and on for pages and had John's bonus amount in the note as a ransom demand. That John was allowed to roam the house and brought JonBenet's body up from the basement was absolutely the worst example of police work you can imagine. All in all, my initial response to the news was that I think she took some secrets with her today.

iminca

06-24-2006, 01:54 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vanilla~Bean
*snip*

I don't think any family member had anything to do with her death either. I'm sorry Patty lost her battle with cancer, but I'm at least happy for her that she can be with her daughter once again.

RIP, Patty.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree & it makes me sick that some here feel the need to attack the poor woman.[QUOTE]Originally posted by socaldiva
[B]

I agree with both of you. I sure wouldn't want their karma.

So sorry to hear of her passing. What a terrible thing to have happen in ones life...... to have a child murdered. I can't imagine more pain. Well at least she's in no pain now.

RIP Patsy... give that sweet JonBenet a hug for me.

:rose: :rose:

FrankieBones1

06-24-2006, 02:38 PM

The death of Patsy and the case is being discussed on Fox News Network right now.

FrankieBones1

06-24-2006, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Former Juror
I have very mixed feelings. I have no doubt Patty was responsible for the death of Jonbenet, but I don't wish death by cancer on anyone.

IMO
I feel the same way, FJ.
imo

FrankieBones1

06-24-2006, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Moondust

E. Pierce Marshall....son of oil tycoon who was married to Anna Nicole and who's been battling Anna for years over his fathers estate.
Wow! What did he die of? I didn't think he was that old, but then again, neither was Patsy.
imo

FrankieBones1

06-24-2006, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Designer
I doubt that any of us "hate" Patsy Ramsey. We simply don't buy into the idea that she is innocent. Of course, we also don't wish cancer on anyone either. That having been said, we are allowed to voice our opinion about one of the biggest crimes of the 90's.

Please do not confuse our feelings about Patsy's crime with our feelings about her death.

Thank you.
Nicely said, Designer. No one on this thread hates Patsy or has said as much.
imo

fight4right

06-24-2006, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by FrankieBones1

Wow! What did he die of? I didn't think he was that old, but then again, neither was Patsy.
imo

An "infection". No other info has been released. He was 67. :eek:

oldschool

06-24-2006, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by FrankieBones1

Nicely said, Designer. No one on this thread hates Patsy or has said as much.
imo

Hating takes up way more engery than just letting someone live there life and I will live mine.

Amy

06-24-2006, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by rosyredrobin
This is so O/T, but the article described JonBenet as "infant." Do you consider a six year old an infant? I don't - not even a toddler anymore, but rather a child. Also, the article said JonBenet was "beaten." I don't remember that either.

I watched a video, where the newsperson first said infant. Later she did change it to child.

Infant is up to one year of age.

MiamiNice1

06-24-2006, 03:05 PM

How sad and shocking! :rose:

The last 10 years of Patsy's life were pure H3ll...maybe now she will finally be at peace.

Rowan

06-24-2006, 03:12 PM

I also think Patsy had responsibility in JonBenet's death. I'm not sure that John did. I can only wonder his feelings at this time.

I too hope she has found peace and forgiveness.

MissOtisRegrets

06-24-2006, 03:34 PM

Why, if JonBenet were accidentally killed at home by one of her parents and they both then decided to cover it up with a fake kidnapping letter, wouldn't they remove her body from the house before calling police? It makes no sense. I think it was someone who probably was more aware of the Ramseys than they were of him and someone who had spent time without their knowledge in their and others' homes before. I think the DNA will tell the story. We know from the Lunsford tragedy that people need to lock their doors.

MOO

:rose:

iminca

06-24-2006, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by rosyredrobin
I always thought it was a disgruntled employee or ex-employee who worked for John's company or one of the three companies that merged. JMO I'm going to read "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" this week-end. Maybe I'll have a different opinion after reading.

Me too. I thought maybe it was someone like a Joseph Duncan that loved to write (ie. his blog), that liked to murder by cracking people over the head with a hammer and worked for a computer company that traveled to do consultant work for other companies.

Or someone like a James Selby that was in the military in Colorado and liked to drag little girls out the window and rape them........and looks like the sketch of the person that a physic drew of the person that killed Jon Benet on acandyrose. And he said he did it.

Not the parents or friends.

Now Patsy knows who did it.

:rose:

Rockford

06-24-2006, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by fight4right

An "infection". No other info has been released. He was 67. :eek:

All that fighting in court over the money, and his father was what? A billionaire? Plenty of money to have been given to Smith, and this guy could have lived life stress free.

Really sorry to hear of Patsy Ramsey's death at such a young age. And to think she beat the cancer when being in remission for 9 whole years.

I thought if you were in remission from cancer for 7 years, you were declared cancer free from whatever cancer you were first diagnosed.

I sure was wrong about that.

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by oldschool

Hating takes up way more engery than just letting someone live there life and I will live mine. Amen i don't hate anyone that includes Patty.

But i do think she was involved with JB's death or she at least wrote the ransom note. I'm sorry but i darn sure don't think that a random killer would have known exactly how much Mr Ramsey's bonus was going to be that year.

With all my heart and soul i would hope she didn't do that to her child.

fdusa

06-24-2006, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by Scully

Me too. I will always believe that she and her husband knew more than they were telling. I'm still sorry that she went through the cancer and died at such an early age.

I allways had a feeling they were covering up for someone else and perhaps that someone was the little brother.

No one is ever going to know what happened for sure though.

llylabrat

06-24-2006, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by TexMex

Hi redrobin

That's the main reason I never bought into the Ramseys doing this crime.

I've known people battling cancer and it puts life into proper perspective VERY quickly. Nobody who had stage 4 cancer is going to kill their daughter over wetting the bed, IMO

So true!

MiamiNice1

06-24-2006, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by iminca

Me too. I thought maybe it was someone like a Joseph Duncan that loved to write (ie. his blog), that liked to murder by cracking people over the head with a hammer and worked for a computer company that traveled to do consultant work for other companies.

Or someone like a James Selby that was in the military in Colorado and liked to drag little girls out the window and rape them........and looks like the sketch of the person that a physic drew of the person that killed Jon Benet on acandyrose. And he said he did it.

Not the parents or friends.

Now Patsy knows who did it.

:rose:

This is a believable theory, iminca. Or maybe I just want to believe that it was anyone other than the parents. It's just too ugly to wrap my head around the fact that it could be either of the parents.

imo.

sebastiana

06-24-2006, 04:19 PM

Poor John Ramsey, so many early deaths in their family.
For the family...:rose:

MiamiNice1

06-24-2006, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Dunlurken
I'm totally shocked. I think stress brings on cancer and elevates it if you are under a lot of stress.

For the Ramsey family. :rose:

I so agree with you, Dunlurken.

Many years ago, a family friend found out her husband had been cheating on her for the past 17 years. To make matters worse, she also discovered that the whole town knew this and no one ever told her.

She was so distraught, that she kept saying over and over to everyone how she just wanted to die....she just wanted to die....

Well, don't you know, within 6 MONTHS, she developed a cancerous brain tumor and died! Shocking.

Nancy#1Fan

06-24-2006, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets
IMO neither of those parents were even remotely capable of putting a garrotte around that little girls neck.

And you can tell just by looking at them? Wow what a gift you have.:rolleyes:

Nancy#1Fan

06-24-2006, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets
Why, if JonBenet were accidentally killed at home by one of her parents and they both then decided to cover it up with a fake kidnapping letter, wouldn't they remove her body from the house before calling police? It makes no sense. I think it was someone who probably was more aware of the Ramseys than they were of him and someone who had spent time without their knowledge in their and others' homes before. I think the DNA will tell the story. We know from the Lunsford tragedy that people need to lock their doors.

MOO

:rose:

How many perverted criminals break into a house, lay in wait for the family to return home, drag their prey into the basement of the victim's own home while the remaining family members sleep?

Then proceed to torture and MURDER and then stick around, just for kicks, to write a rambling LONG "ransom" letter?????

How many duct tape their victim's mouth shut AFTER she is already dead????

msgatorslayer

06-24-2006, 04:42 PM

I've always been conflicted on the Ramsey case. Alot of evidence was fishy and pointed to an inside job, yet, as we know, it's very possible for children to be taken from the comforts of their own bed and murdered.

:rose:

Nancy#1Fan

06-24-2006, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by msgatorslayer
I've always been conflicted on the Ramsey case. Alot of evidence was fishy and pointed to an inside job, yet, as we know, it's very possible for children to be taken from the comforts of their own bed and murdered.

:rose:

True, but real "intruders" remove them to a place where they feel safe & can do what they want without beging discovered.

Lobsters

06-24-2006, 04:49 PM

Either way....Patsy is meeting her maker and answering to him. And that's really the only person she has to answer to.

RIP Jon Benet....:rose:

TexMex

06-24-2006, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by Nancy#1Fan

How many perverted criminals break into a house, lay in wait for the family to return home, drag their prey into the basement of the victim's own home while the remaining family members sleep?

Then proceed to torture and MURDER and then stick around, just for kicks, to write a rambling LONG "ransom" letter?????

How many duct tape their victim's mouth shut AFTER she is already dead????

Hi #1Fan

This would not be the first time a pervert broke into a home and waited to bind, torture, kill a victim....BTK for example.

And how do we know the note was written after the murder? Could have been done before entering the home or while lying in wait.

msgatorslayer

06-24-2006, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Nancy#1Fan

True, but real "intruders" remove them to a place where they feel safe & can do what they want without beging discovered.

That's the biggest thing that makes me point to the Ramsey's.

But this must be the only case where I still can't say, 100% guilty.

The whole case is a shocking mystery of 'who done it'. The ransom note, items used to kill Jon Bennet, all things that came from the Ramsey home.

:shrug:

The circumstantial evidence is mounted high in this case. Guess i've always had a problem with "WHY?" why would the Ramsey's do this.

Aame

06-24-2006, 04:59 PM

Wonder how many women are left in the Ramsey family?

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by Nancy#1Fan

How many perverted criminals break into a house, lay in wait for the family to return home, drag their prey into the basement of the victim's own home while the remaining family members sleep?

Then proceed to torture and MURDER and then stick around, just for kicks, to write a rambling LONG "ransom" letter?????

How many duct tape their victim's mouth shut AFTER she is already dead???? and how did a total strange know exactly how much Mr Ramseys bonus was going to be? It all just smells fishy to me

mizStery

06-24-2006, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by GrrlPwer
wow everyone seems to be dying this weekend. The only one so far i'm mourning is Mr. Spelling. God bless him.

JonBenet's mom always seemed odd to me.

From her perfectly coifed hair to her perfect makeup and wardrobe Patsy always came across as uncomfortable in her own skin. From the video of Jon Bene it is obvious she didn't have much of a childhood. Living your life based on looking like an 8x 10 glossy image must be miserable. Very odd indeed. Just my own opinion.

Nancy#1Fan

06-24-2006, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by TexMex

Hi #1Fan

This would not be the first time a pervert broke into a home and waited to bind, torture, kill a victim....BTK for example.

And how do we know the note was written after the murder? Could have been done before entering the home or while lying in wait.

If the note was written prior to her death and was intended as an actual ransom note, that would mean the murderer would have taken her downstairs and "accidentally" got carried away and killed her. I simply can't believe at that point the "kidnapper" would grab the note, risk getting caught, lay the note on the stairs AFTER her death.

To think the "intruder" would write the note and leave it on the stairs prior to taking JonBenet to the basement is just stupid. A kidnapper REMOVES the child, alive or dead.

The ransom note was staging, there was never a plot to kidnap anyone.

Why would a child murdering intruder stage a kidnapping? They wouldn't.

breezy1234

06-24-2006, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by speedygonzales6
What a horrible thing to say. You would be a Nancy fan. Patsy Ramsey was innocent. Shame on you.

I agree! It's sad how bad things happening to people brings out the true colors of some posters here.

breezy1234

06-24-2006, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by GrrlPwer
Lets just hope JonBenet doesn't say.......Mommy why did you kill me for accidently wetting the bed. :shrug:

RIP JonBenet

:rose:

OMG, that stupid gossip story has been disproven a long time ago. Let's just hope you are perfect when your own time comes to meets your maker..................IMO you better start working on yourself NOW.

LettucePrey

06-24-2006, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by GrrlPwer
wrong again. i voted for John Kerry! How do you come up with this bs? :lol:

easy. People who disregard our justice system, and constitutional rights tend to be Bush supporters.

iminca

06-24-2006, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by GrrlPwer
and how did a total strange know exactly how much Mr Ramseys bonus was going to be? It all just smells fishy to me

Someone that could crack into your computer and find out lots of things. That is if you do your taxes on it.

You know someone like a Joseph Duncan.

breezy1234

06-24-2006, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by Former Juror
I have very mixed feelings. I have no doubt Patty was responsible for the death of Jonbenet, but I don't wish death by cancer on anyone.

IMO

You have no doubt yet all the states money and resources couldn't find enough evidence to even charge them let alone find them guilty. You better let the state in on all the evicence that convonced you of Patsy's guilt. :rolleyes:

iminca

06-24-2006, 05:21 PM

GrrlPwer wrote:

and how did a total strange know exactly how much Mr Ramseys bonus was going to be? It all just smells fishy to me

Originally posted by rosyredrobin

A hacker or hackers???

Just read this. You and I think alike. :)

Babby~A

06-24-2006, 05:21 PM

Wow............:rose:

She was only 49.

Nancy#1Fan

06-24-2006, 05:28 PM

ransom note..kidnapping plot....PLEASE!

Aletta

06-24-2006, 05:30 PM

Sorry she passed away but any parent who dresses their kid up to look like an adult is nutso as far as I am concerned. JonBenet did not have much of a chance at being a kid.

Everytime I watched those video clips on TV of JonBenet parading around on the stage, I just cringed. I have no idea who killed her but her parents were out to lunch.

My opinion only!

coolmomof4

06-24-2006, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by LettucePrey

because last time I looked this was still America, and EVERYONE is innocent until PROVEN guilty. You must be a Bush supporter.

Ummm, I fully believe in innocence until proven guilty and I am a Bush supporter.:shrug:

Nancy#1Fan

06-24-2006, 05:42 PM

Babby~A

06-24-2006, 05:42 PM

Makes me wonder about Tammy Faye. I wonder how she is?

breezy1234

06-24-2006, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by Nancy#1Fan

Excuse me?

I was simply pointing out the ridiculous notion that there was ever a plan to kidnap her & the ransom note was bogus from the start.

Elizabeth Smart wasn't found being held captive in her own basement either.

For JonBenet:rose:

Here, read something besides gossip.

Throughout the lengthy and sometimes hostile police interrogations, both in 1998 and 2000, the Ramseys maintained their innocence. Now, eight years later, 48 Hours reports that investigators are no longer focusing on the Ramsey family.

Detectives working for the Boulder district attorney now believe that one, possibly two, intruders entered the Ramsey home and killed JonBenet and they are finally concentrating their efforts on the underside of Boulder that was largely ignored during the initial investigation.

"A lot of people don't really think about, 'Let's go find out who's their next door neighbor.' It's not until something big happens that we worry about who are our neighbors," says John San Augustin. He and Ollie Gray were originally hired by the Ramseys in 1999, and they are now part of a small band of private detectives, working without pay, and determined to find JonBenet's killer.

"From the get-go, Patsy and John were the focus of JonBenet's murder," says San Augustin. "And nobody really looked into the intruder theory."

"When you start turning rocks over in Boulder, you know, stand back," adds Gray.

What they have discovered is startling. Within a two-mile radius of where the Ramseys once lived, 38 of their neighbors are registered sex offenders. What these private detectives have also discovered is that in the months before JonBenet's murder, there were more than 100 burglaries in her neighborhood.

"All the crime that was actually going on, I don't think that the Ramseys had any clue that this was going on," says Gray.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the outset, police never seriously considered the evidence that someone outside the Ramsey family may have killed JonBenet.

"I don't think the Ramseys did it and I think they ought to start looking for the people that did," says retired homicide Det. Lou Smit, who once quit because police ignored the intruder theory.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

Jadedblueeyes

06-24-2006, 06:07 PM

sebastiana

06-24-2006, 06:12 PM

Her death comes nearly ten years after Jonbenet's murder. So sad.

We may never know what really happened in that house that night. And if Patsy knew more than she ever told, she took the secrets with her. But none of us can ever say with certainty that she did know anything, because none of us were there. May they both rest in peace.

sebastiana

06-24-2006, 06:15 PM

Maybe because there just isn't any evidence that exists. After ten years someone should have probably come up with something a little concrete.

Nancy#1Fan

06-24-2006, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by Vanilla~Bean

I know, it's a wonderfully written book, IMO.

I appreciate using my own brain to think and come to my own conclusions rather than being robotically fed the same "they're guilty" mantra.

Worse yet is the fact that those who robotically harp on the Ramsey's guilt can never offer a shred of evidence in that direction.

Odd, neither could LE. ;)

ONE shred of tangible evidence of an intruder would be lovely.

sebastiana

06-24-2006, 06:23 PM

What about the rope found in the spare bedroom. Lou Smit theorized that he, the intruder, hid under the bed in that room and waited. Just something I remember from the documentary, "A second look", Lou Smit's documentary. ?

Jadedblueeyes

06-24-2006, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by Vanilla~Bean

Other than saying (which I doubt you'll listen to, or care about), that this thread isn't the place to bash Patsy Ramsey if anyone has the least iota of decency, I'll just say in response to your post that no one thought that Elizabeth Smart would come waltzing home one day either.

Strange things DO happen, and none of us know precise details of any factual information other than little Jon Benet lost her life that day.

Now, can we leave it at that, and keep this thread for the reverence of the deceased - both Patty AND Jon Benet?

Don't forget, Patty was Jon Benet's mommy and undoubtedly loved her immensely.

If you still need to bash Patty, please by all means, carry on. :rolleyes:

I agree none of us are above making a mistake. It has been done before right on CTV. The majority of posters thought Mark Lunsford to be a pedophile and murderer of his own child. Steve Greone was also blamed equally......another supposedly murderer of his own children. Some of us had John/Jennifer Wilbanks fiance ...already accused of being the murderer of Jennifer and if she had skipped the country and never came back some would still proclaim his guilt imo.

But the truth came forward in those caes and evidence of real hard truth was gathered.

In JonBenet's case we have seen no testimony or evidence in a courtroom.......until that day we just speculate without proof to back it up.

I do not think her case will ever be solved. If the true murderer is dead now all the checking CODIS will do no good. Will we ever know who's males DNA was found? I doubt it very seriously.

I hope that Patsy and JonBet are at peace.:rose:

IMO

Ocean

breezy1234

06-24-2006, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Nancy#1Fan

ONE shred of tangible evidence of an intruder would be lovely.

Is this "shred" enough for you?

The current investigation also focuses on the possibility of two intruders, because of two very clear, and different, boot prints in the room where JonBenet was found. And, there's another clue investigators are interested in: a rope found in the bedroom next to JonBenet's.

What's more, detectives are now seriously investigating a lead that was ignored years earlier: a report of an unknown blue van spotted outside the Ramsey house the night before and the day after JonBenet was murdered.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

Nancy#1Fan

06-24-2006, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by breezy1234

Is this "shred" enough for you?

The current investigation also focuses on the possibility of two intruders, because of two very clear, and different, boot prints in the room where JonBenet was found. And, there's another clue investigators are interested in: a rope found in the bedroom next to JonBenet's.

What's more, detectives are now seriously investigating a lead that was ignored years earlier: a report of an unknown blue van spotted outside the Ramsey house the night before and the day after JonBenet was murdered.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

No, you can't date a boot print.

Rope? Was it used in the crime? Nope, white cord was, so why think it belonged to an "intruder?

High Tec Boots? The ones Burke owned?

Aletta

06-24-2006, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by Babby~A
Makes me wonder about Tammy Faye. I wonder how she is?

Babby, GMTA. Too weird. I was thinking the same thing. She was on Larry King a few months back and not looking good. I have not seen anything in the press about her which makes me think she is in bad shape.

SPYCEE3

06-24-2006, 07:04 PM

Typical hi-jacking of a nice thread. Why does this bickering crap always have to happen?

Rest in Peace Patsy Ramsey :rose:

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 07:10 PM

Here's a great site about JonBenet's murder.........

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-discovery.htm

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by SPYCEE3
Typical hi-jacking of a nice thread. Why does this bickering crap always have to happen?

Rest in Peace Patsy Ramsey :rose: Because everyone has a different opinion and has the right to voice it. :patriot:

sarasun

06-24-2006, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by Iknowwhatudid
RIP Patsy.:rose:

I do not believe the parents or Burke had anything to do with the murder.

Rest in peace, Patsy :rose:

mylipsaresealed

06-24-2006, 07:59 PM

I believe DNA speaks volumes and the missing links to any family member's DNA is enough to ease our minds that Patsy was not involved.

Can you imagine the added stress of losing a precious daughter, being accused so publically and having to defend yourself, all while battling cancer?

Patsy and JonBennet will be reunited, a Mom too young, and her beloved little girl.

:rose:

Aletta

06-24-2006, 08:19 PM

I actually think it was some sicko predator who followed little JonBenet. Who became obsessed with this little girl who often looked like a grown up thanks to makeup she had to wear for those pageants.

I think of Westerfield and his obsession with little Danielle Van Dam. For all anyone knows the predator was watching JonBenet all the time.

My opinion only. I still feel terrible about Patsy passing away. The only thing I can find fault with her with was the fact that she let her young daughter parade on a stage looking like a grown adult. That made me sad...those videos just made me sad...sad..sad..

oldshirley

06-24-2006, 08:35 PM

I didn't really believe Patsy Ramsey had anything to do with her daughter's death.
I hope they are together now.
also, I didn't know Aaron Spelling died.
:rose: :rose:

Babby~A

06-24-2006, 08:41 PM

I imagine the stress and sadness of the death of her daughter and the suspicion cast on her involvement didn't help in slowing the progression of the cancer.

If she had nothing to do with this, how sad.

RIP Patsy Ramsey...................:rose:

Smurfs_Rule

06-24-2006, 08:44 PM

Atleast she is now able to see her daughter again. Sad for her son though.:rose: :rose: :rose:

Babby~A

06-24-2006, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by Aletta
I actually think it was some sicko predator who followed little JonBenet. Who became obsessed with this little girl who often looked like a grown up thanks to makeup she had to wear for those pageants.

I think of Westerfield and his obsession with little Danielle Van Dam. For all anyone knows the predator was watching JonBenet all the time.

My opinion only. I still feel terrible about Patsy passing away. The only thing I can find fault with her with was the fact that she let her young daughter parade on a stage looking like a grown adult. That made me sad...those videos just made me sad...sad..sad..

I know Al. Was Patsy dressed and paraded the same way when she was a child? I know she was a pageant queen.:shrug:

Broncgal

06-24-2006, 09:23 PM

I don't think the parents had anything to do with it. Or their son.I don't believe it was a family friend but someone who knew the family and the layout of the home. They had had a number of contracters in the house over the past year. I think if Patsy had anything to do with it she would have confessed on her death bed.

SteelerFan

06-24-2006, 09:38 PM

was Miss West Virginia, 1977.

MissOtisRegrets

06-24-2006, 09:38 PM

It makes no sense that the Ramseys would try to stage a cover-up, using items from their own house. The paint brush, the stationery, the pen, etc. Better to do nothing.

I think the killer entered the home while they were at the party and wrote the letter to pass the time. The letter may not have been planned.

A real psychopath. With an obsession for both JonBenet and John.

MOO

weepy willa

06-24-2006, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by Nancy#1Fan
oh well...............for her sake, I hope she had nothing to fear in the end. Doubt it tho

I feel sorry for her son for the lost of his mother,and two sisters. Someone knows what happened that night.:rose: for Jonbenet.

people

06-24-2006, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by weepy willa

I feel sorry for her son for the lost of his mother,and two sisters. Someone knows what happened that night.:rose: for Jonbenet. two sisters?:confused:

SPYCEE3

06-24-2006, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by GrrlPwer
Because everyone has a different opinion and has the right to voice it. :patriot:

Yep...You've made that perfectly obvious....but why do it here?

Never mind....some people just have no respect for the dead. :rolleyes:

kab164

06-24-2006, 10:09 PM

Did any of you see the special that was on, I think maybe last year? about this case? In it they said that another small girl from Jon Benet's dance studio was almost kidnapped. The mom heard something and got up to investigate and scared the guy away. To me that sounds like a real possible connection. They also said that there were MANY registered sex offenders that lived within 2 miles of their home (dozens maybe?)

I feel badly that Patsy died and suffered so much. At first I found her odd, kind of cold. But who knows how I'd act in her shoes if the media had convinved everyone that I had something to do with my daughter's brutal death.

Similar to the OJ case, the police screwed this one up from the beginning. They didn't have experience with that type of case and at first thought it was a kidnapping.

I also found the whole pageant thing bizarre. And it may have had something to do with her death if a pedophile was obsessed with her. But I really don't think that her mom could have done something that weird. And why use a stun gun?

VERY SAD all around. If they do indeed prove someday that it wasn't the family, there are going to be a lot of Americans feeling sheepish.

weepy willa

06-24-2006, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by people
two sisters?:confused:

John Ramsey lost another daughter ,in a car crash.

Rachel1234

06-24-2006, 11:32 PM

hmmm. Some folks think she was involved or covered up her daughters murder and others think she was completely innocent.

Regardless of what side you fall on, what makes me the most sad is that an American woman who is only 49 years old is dead from ovarian cancer. She was a woman who also had means and access to good medical care and she still is dead at 49. Horrible.

For Jon Benet and the Ramsey Family :rose:

Cornblossom

06-24-2006, 11:34 PM

Patsy Ramsey, Mother of Slain Girl, Dies (http://my.embarq.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20060624/449cb8c0_3ca6_1552620060624531864583)

Osuzzanna

06-24-2006, 11:38 PM

Rest in Peace , Patsy :rose:

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 11:43 PM

Originally posted by Babby~A
Makes me wonder about Tammy Faye. I wonder how she is? I was wondering the same thing. I think i'll go check out her blog. If i find out anything i'll let you know......

GrrlPwer

06-24-2006, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by SPYCEE3

Yep...You've made that perfectly obvious....but why do it here?

Never mind....some people just have no respect for the dead. :rolleyes: and some have no respect for the truth but why talk about that here.

RIP JonBenet :rose:

Angelina

06-24-2006, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by GrrlPwer
I was wondering the same thing. I think i'll go check out her blog. If i find out anything i'll let you know......

I was wondering about Tammy Faye the other day, when you find something let me know, please. If you can get past all the make up and stuff, she seems to be such a sweet person.

Jadedblueeyes

06-25-2006, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets
It makes no sense that the Ramseys would try to stage a cover-up, using items from their own house. The paint brush, the stationery, the pen, etc. Better to do nothing.

I think the killer entered the home while they were at the party and wrote the letter to pass the time. The letter may not have been planned.

A real psychopath. With an obsession for both JonBenet and John.

MOO

Poor John...he has lost so much in such a short time span. His older daughter, his youngest daighter and now his wife. His life has become all about losing.

I hope his strong faith in God will sustain him... I always felt he was a man of honor and courage .:rose:

IMO

Ocean

GrrlPwer

06-25-2006, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by Rachel1234
hmmm. Some folks think she was involved or covered up her daughters murder and others think she was completely innocent.

Regardless of what side you fall on, what makes me the most sad is that an American woman who is only 49 years old is dead from ovarian cancer. She was a woman who also had means and access to good medical care and she still is dead at 49. Horrible.

For Jon Benet and the Ramsey Family :rose: Amen i agree. I'll be so glad when we never have to hear that word Cancer again.

I personally feel sorry tonight for John and Burke. You know it has to be horrible to lose two daughters and a wife and two sisters and a mom. God bless them

Osuzzanna

06-25-2006, 12:25 AM

R.I.P. Patsy ~ :rose:

May you hold Jon Benet in your arms once again

tiny paw-prints

06-25-2006, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by rosyredrobin

She said IMO. What's the problem? Doesn't she have a right to her opinion just like the rest of us?

I guess some people have *control issues* ?

And by reading your post above, seems like you

have a few of your own? Odd, that is.

Aletta

06-25-2006, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by Rachel1234
hmmm. Some folks think she was involved or covered up her daughters murder and others think she was completely innocent.

Regardless of what side you fall on, what makes me the most sad is that an American woman who is only 49 years old is dead from ovarian cancer. She was a woman who also had means and access to good medical care and she still is dead at 49. Horrible.

For Jon Benet and the Ramsey Family :rose:

Years ago when a woman got Ovarian Cancer they died not too long after. My friend lost her mother to it in the 70's.

Patsy was blessed to have lived as long as she did with this cancer. Now she is at peace - pain free and that is a good thing. Cancer is horribly rotten.

socaldiva

06-25-2006, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by Rachel1234
*snip*

Regardless of what side you fall on, what makes me the most sad is that an American woman who is only 49 years old is dead from ovarian cancer. She was a woman who also had means and access to good medical care and she still is dead at 49. Horrible.

For Jon Benet and the Ramsey Family :rose:

I agree with you, but I wonder if they were still a family of means. I seem to have lost track of what John did for a living in recent years.

So sad, all the way around.

MissOtisRegrets

06-25-2006, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by tiny paw-prints

I guess some people have *control issues* ?

And by reading your post above, seems like you

have a few of your own? Odd, that is.

Tiny paw-prints, Rosy was defending my right to post my opinion, and I appreciated it. She wasn't starting anything.

chatwuann

06-25-2006, 01:42 AM

I am glad Patsy Ramseys suffering is over. I bet patsy has had that talk with JonBenet and now knows who killed her The slings and arrows won't hurt Patsy now. I feel sorry for John and Burke who still will be hurt by them.

:rose: For JonBenet & Patsy

GrrlPwer

06-25-2006, 02:29 AM

Originally posted by Vanilla~Bean

The problem is, you have no clue what the truth in the Ramsey case is.

But hey, carry on with your Patsy bashing on the thread that announces and respects her death, as we all should be respected in death.

But oh, your lousy opinion means more than respecting the deceased and leaving the Lord to judge and how dare I think any different. :rolleyes:

Not you; notice I didn't say you, I said the Lord. you might want to go back and read what i've said several times today. i said that i have NO idea if Mrs Ramsey hurt her child and i said now its between her and God.

tiny paw-prints

06-25-2006, 02:45 AM

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets

Tiny paw-prints, Rosy was defending my right to post my opinion, and I appreciated it. She wasn't starting anything.

What you may not be aware of, is the fact that Rosy selectively chooses who she thinks may post their opinions versus other people who she thinks have *control issues*...when she does not agree with their opinions!

I happen to be one of those members who she selectively chooses does NOT have a right to post my opinions!

So, when I read various threads and come upon Rosy's posts that selectively choose who she thinks has *control issues* --then I am compelled to bring HER complaint to HER attention!

It is too sweet IMO, that she selectively chooses to *defend* you!

JeniferHart

06-25-2006, 03:48 AM

Originally posted by Babby~A
Makes me wonder about Tammy Faye. I wonder how she is?

She posts like she is feeling better, she has her weight up to 95 pounds. The last time I checked her blog, she was down to 88. She updated 6/22/06

http://www.tammyfaye.com/note20060622.htm

RIP Pasty & Jon Benet:rose:

FrankieBones1

06-25-2006, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by SteelerFan
was Miss West Virginia, 1977. Yes, she was Pat Brown back then.

INBETWEEN

06-25-2006, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by GrrlPwer
you might want to go back and read what i've said several times today. i said that i have NO idea if Mrs Ramsey hurt her child and i said now its between her and God.

Not a TRUE post by GrrlPwer. READ:

Originally posted by GrrlPwer:
"Lets just hope JonBenet doesn't say.......Mommy why did you kill me for accidently wetting the bed".

YET on the Natalee board you say in your juvenile "colors": "What evidence? Show me the evidence? J2K did nothing to harm Natalee, because there is NO evidence" YET with NO evidence, and TWO grand juries came in with NO indictment/no bill, etc.: you've convicted Patsy Ramsey? GAWD. JMO and GAWD again.

This THREAD was to say goodbye to A PERSON who died at age 49. YOU then hijacked this thread for your own reasons, from the get go. IMO.

Call on your buds to ban me. I'm tired of your POSTS.

SilSal

06-25-2006, 08:25 AM

I don't believe JonBenet and her mother have united..

JonBenet is in heaven with the angels......

THIS IS MY OPINION !

Tig

06-25-2006, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Nancy#1Fan
Well, for her sake, I hope she had nothing to fear when she met her maker. I personally doubt it.

:read: Well said. I wonder and just can't believe, at present, of her innocence or her husbands innocence either. I don't believe that a stranger did the crime. Now to continue to read and catch up. :seeya:

-IMO-
Peace

breezy1234

06-25-2006, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by SilSal
I don't believe JonBenet and her mother have united..

JonBenet is in heaven with the angels......

THIS IS MY OPINION !

And IMO You don't believe in heaven at all to make such a statement.

Nancy#1Fan

06-25-2006, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by breezy1234

And IMO You don't believe in heaven at all to make such a statement.

So what if she doesn't? :chicken:

MissOtisRegrets

06-25-2006, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by tiny paw-prints

What you may not be aware of, is the fact that Rosy selectively chooses who she thinks may post their opinions versus other people who she thinks have *control issues*...when she does not agree with their opinions!

I happen to be one of those members who she selectively chooses does NOT have a right to post my opinions!

So, when I read various threads and come upon Rosy's posts that selectively choose who she thinks has *control issues* --then I am compelled to bring HER complaint to HER attention!

It is too sweet IMO, that she selectively chooses to *defend* you!

Tiny, I have been on the Blake board since March of 2003. It is a particularly contentious board. Rosy has been on the Blake board for about a year now. I have never seen one post from her that is controlling or seeks to censor another poster. In fact, I can't even figure out if she is a G, an NG, or undecided. She asks and answers questions of/from posters from both sides. With respect.

Tig

06-25-2006, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by INBETWEEN

Not a TRUE post by GrrlPwer. READ:

Originally posted by GrrlPwer:
"Lets just hope JonBenet doesn't say.......Mommy why did you kill me for accidently wetting the bed".

YET on the Natalee board you say in your juvenile "colors": "What evidence? Show me the evidence? J2K did nothing to harm Natalee, because there is NO evidence" YET with NO evidence, and TWO grand juries came in with NO indictment/no bill, etc.: you've convicted Patsy Ramsey? GAWD. JMO and GAWD again.

This THREAD was to say goodbye to A PERSON who died at age 49. YOU then hijacked this thread for your own reasons, from the get go. IMO.

Call on your buds to ban me. I'm tired of your POSTS.

"This THREAD was to say goodbye to A PERSON who died at age 49." And so it is. I was shocked that Patsy is dead at such a young age. I wish no death by cancer on anyone. Wish we all just died in our sleep in a nanosecond, painfree. Patsy stands before her maker, innocent or not. My condolances to her family who will miss her. And for those who went on before Patsy. Especially Jon Benet, who never deserved her manor of death. I can not forget Jon Benet. :rose:

-IMO-
Peace

MissOtisRegrets

06-25-2006, 10:54 AM

breezy1234

06-25-2006, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Nancy#1Fan

So what if she doesn't? :chicken:

Yeah so what, it's her that pretends she does and KNOWS where people will end up after death, not me. Who DOES care what she
'believes"???

:shrug:

SilSal

06-25-2006, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by breezy1234

And IMO You don't believe in heaven at all to make such a statement.

Oh yes I do and that's where JonBenet is...

After following this case very closely for nearly 10 years, I believe Patsy was responsible for her daughter's death.

THIS IS MY OPINION !

RIP Patsy.

scubadvr99

06-25-2006, 12:08 PM

When you go to Patsy's obit at ajc.om, they take you to an article. It clearly states that the DNA found on Jon Benet doesn't match the family. This woman lived with cancer, the loss of a child, and being accused of her murder. I don't think the evidence can lie, you know, DNA.

She may have blamed herself as any parent would, what could have been done to prevent this.....

IMO everyone focused on them and let the real perp get away to hurt others. Poor LE handling of the case.

Here is the link to her obit on ajc.com
http://www.legacy.com/atlanta/Obituaries.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=18222889

:rose: For Patsy and Jon Benet :rose:

breezy1234

06-25-2006, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by SilSal

Oh yes I do and that's where JonBenet is...

After following this case very closely for nearly 10 years, I believe Patsy was responsible for her daughter's death.

THIS IS MY OPINION !

RIP Patsy.

Nice that you think you know the prosecuters job, the grand jury's job AND God's job better than they do because you "followed" the case. :shrug:

breezy1234

06-25-2006, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by scubadvr99
When you go to Patsy's obit at ajc.om, they take you to an article. It clearly states that the DNA found on Jon Benet doesn't match the family. This woman lived with cancer, the loss of a child, and being accused of her murder. I don't think the evidence can lie, you know, DNA.

She may have blamed herself as any parent would, what could have been done to prevent this.....

IMO everyone focused on them and let the real perp get away to hurt others. Poor LE handling of the case.

Here is the link to her obit on ajc.com
http://www.legacy.com/atlanta/Obituaries.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=18222889

:rose: For Patsy and Jon Benet :rose:

The crime lab has two spots of JonBenet's blood found on the underwear she was wearing the night of the murder. Mixed in with that blood is the DNA of an unknown person. It has taken years to isolate, but forensic scientists in Colorado now have a complete DNA profile of the killer. They know the killer is a male. What they don't know is his name.

and still some people"believe" Patsy is guilty because they"followed the case". What they followed was gossip IMO and NOTHING will ever change their minds.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

breezy1234

06-25-2006, 12:30 PM

The first thing that occurred to us was that it was the parallel to the Ramsey case because it was exactly the same situation," says Amy's father, who even told the Boulder police about the Dance West studio connection to the Ramsey case. "I think someone, somewhere, drew a bead on her. Obviously had us under surveillance that we were not aware of."

The studio has since gone out of business and been torn down, but photos show that there was a balcony overlooking the dance floor where parents and anyone else could come in and watch the children.

But Amy's dad says that when he told the police detectives about the information he had, "they were completely uninterested in it."

"They were very frustrated," says Peterson. "It was difficult to get them to do anything much less, you know, beyond taking a report."

But not only did the Boulder police dismiss any link to the Ramsey case, they didn't even bother to use the mother's eyewitness description to make a composite sketch. That's when Amy's family hired Peterson. What he has uncovered in his investigation may not only solve Amy's case, but also help lead to the capture of JonBenet's killer.

"This person is someone with a huge ego, someone who views himself as bold," says Peterson, who believes there are too many parallels between Amy's case and JonBenet's murder.

Both JonBenet and Amy were sexually assaulted by an intruder at night in their homes -- within nine months of each other. Fiber evidence shows that JonBenet's attacker may have been wearing black, as was the man who attacked Amy. And there's the fact that both girls took lessons at the Dance West studio.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

Former Juror

06-25-2006, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by SilSal

SNIP

After following this case very closely for nearly 10 years, I believe Patsy was responsible for her daughter's death.

THIS IS MY OPINION !

RIP Patsy.

I have read every book, watched every documentary and interview on this case. I have followed it from day one, and I, too, completely agree with your conclusion. I think the death was accidental and that John helped cover it up and stage the scene. IMOOC

'They' do not KNOW that the killer was a male because they do not KNOW for sure that the DNA was from the killer. They know that some DNA, evidently NOT semen, was found on her panties. And, one documentary I saw said they cannot rule out an employee at the factory where the panties were manufactured.

All of us interested in this case can twist the facts to fit our beliefs. The two biggest issues for me are John Ramsey finding the body with Fleet White after the basement had supposedly been searched. And, the ransom note. Patsy is the ONLY one tested that could not be excluded.

I hope for all of us that this case will definitively be solved one day. But, I fear sloppy police work and internal turmoil in the investigation eliminated any chance for justice, whether the killer was Patsy or someone else.

IMO

GrrlPwer

06-25-2006, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by INBETWEEN

Not a TRUE post by GrrlPwer. READ:

Originally posted by GrrlPwer:
"Lets just hope JonBenet doesn't say.......Mommy why did you kill me for accidently wetting the bed".

YET on the Natalee board you say in your juvenile "colors": "What evidence? Show me the evidence? J2K did nothing to harm Natalee, because there is NO evidence" YET with NO evidence, and TWO grand juries came in with NO indictment/no bill, etc.: you've convicted Patsy Ramsey? GAWD. JMO and GAWD again.

This THREAD was to say goodbye to A PERSON who died at age 49. YOU then hijacked this thread for your own reasons, from the get go. IMO.

Call on your buds to ban me. I'm tired of your POSTS. Because i said lets HOPE she doesn't say that to her mother? Look Grow up and get over i use purple. if you don't like it Iggy me. I've never asked for ANYONE to be banned.

GrrlPwer

06-25-2006, 01:05 PM

breezy1234

06-25-2006, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Former Juror

I have read every book, watched every documentary and interview on this case. I have followed it from day one, and I, too, completely agree with your conclusion. I think the death was accidental and that John helped cover it up and stage the scene. IMOOC

'They' do not KNOW that the killer was a male because they do not KNOW for sure that the DNA was from the killer. They know that some DNA, evidently NOT semen, was found on her panties. And, one documentary I saw said they cannot rule out an employee at the factory where the panties were manufactured.

All of us interested in this case can twist the facts to fit our beliefs. The two biggest issues for me are John Ramsey finding the body with Fleet White after the basement had supposedly been searched. And, the ransom note. Patsy is the ONLY one tested that could not be excluded.

I hope for all of us that this case will definitively be solved one day. But, I fear sloppy police work and internal turmoil in the investigation eliminated any chance for justice, whether the killer was Patsy or someone else.

IMO

Humm, the DNA from the manufactuer of the panties and the DNA under JonBenet's fingernails was the same??? Very ODD, don't you think? I wonder how the employee at the manufacturer got their DNA both in her panties AND under her fingernails???:rolleyes:

The crime lab has two spots of JonBenet's blood found on the underwear she was wearing the night of the murder. Mixed in with that blood is the DNA of an unknown person. It has taken years to isolate, but forensic scientists in Colorado now have a complete DNA profile of the killer. They know the killer is a male. What they don't know is his name.

Augustin and Gray are convinced that the DNA sample belongs to JonBenet's killer, because of a small amount of matching DNA that also was found under the 6-year-old murder victim's fingernails.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

scubadvr99

06-25-2006, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by breezy1234
The first thing that occurred to us was that it was the parallel to the Ramsey case because it was exactly the same situation," says Amy's father, who even told the Boulder police about the Dance West studio connection to the Ramsey case. "I think someone, somewhere, drew a bead on her. Obviously had us under surveillance that we were not aware of."

The studio has since gone out of business and been torn down, but photos show that there was a balcony overlooking the dance floor where parents and anyone else could come in and watch the children.

But Amy's dad says that when he told the police detectives about the information he had, "they were completely uninterested in it."

"They were very frustrated," says Peterson. "It was difficult to get them to do anything much less, you know, beyond taking a report."

But not only did the Boulder police dismiss any link to the Ramsey case, they didn't even bother to use the mother's eyewitness description to make a composite sketch. That's when Amy's family hired Peterson. What he has uncovered in his investigation may not only solve Amy's case, but also help lead to the capture of JonBenet's killer.

"This person is someone with a huge ego, someone who views himself as bold," says Peterson, who believes there are too many parallels between Amy's case and JonBenet's murder.

Both JonBenet and Amy were sexually assaulted by an intruder at night in their homes -- within nine months of each other. Fiber evidence shows that JonBenet's attacker may have been wearing black, as was the man who attacked Amy. And there's the fact that both girls took lessons at the Dance West studio.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

It would be good police work to see if any DNA found on Amy matched the DNA on Jon Benet. :punch: Did I say that????

GrrlPwer

06-25-2006, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by scubadvr99

It would be good police work to see if any DNA found on Amy matched the DNA on Jon Benet. :punch: Did I say that???? Yep Yep i think i heard you say that and i completely agree.

SteelerFan

06-25-2006, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Former Juror

I have read every book, watched every documentary and interview on this case. I have followed it from day one, and I, too, completely agree with your conclusion. I think the death was accidental and that John helped cover it up and stage the scene. IMOOC

'They' do not KNOW that the killer was a male because they do not KNOW for sure that the DNA was from the killer. They know that some DNA, evidently NOT semen, was found on her panties. And, one documentary I saw said they cannot rule out an employee at the factory where the panties were manufactured.

All of us interested in this case can twist the facts to fit our beliefs. The two biggest issues for me are John Ramsey finding the body with Fleet White after the basement had supposedly been searched. And, the ransom note. Patsy is the ONLY one tested that could not be excluded.

I hope for all of us that this case will definitively be solved one day. But, I fear sloppy police work and internal turmoil in the investigation eliminated any chance for justice, whether the killer was Patsy or someone else.

IMO

I agree with you about the issues that still bug you. That it was advantageous for the Ramsey's not be charged can't be disputed. Any defense attorney out there would have had a field day refuting any evidence against them. The crime scene was contaminated beyond belief and they had money and influence to take care of the rest. Leting things fade away was the easiest way to save face. Heads should have rolled, started withe the Boulder PD and working up from there. No one will ever pay for JonBenet's death.