The Men in this Case: Discusssion

[Its just me]

I don't know who asked Mr. P to wash the car, but evidently they felt they had done enough processing? I remember reading that the car had been dusted? If that's the case I don't see how much evidence was destroyed. I mean the interior could still be luminoled...it could still be done today if desired IMO. Where is the car now, anyone know?

Another thing that is common sense to me is that IF the current POI's had relations with TG, you really wouldn't gain that much by all kinds of forensics tests. They, the POI's would've already been there, so the proving that through evidence gathering is a little less important. IMO the gathering of evidence at the house would be useful if there were unknown POI's for the most part. I'm not saying that nothing useful could be gained otherwise, but if you already know a POI has been there........well.....

ALLMO,
R

I personally think the bed linens and clothes should have been bagged and sent to the lab for testing for any forensic evidence. If any had been found it could have been helpful in determining if a poi or undetermined person had been in the bed or not. Linens are washed and any forensic of hair, body fluids would have been very helpful. MHOO

[ipswitch]

I personally think the bed linens and clothes should have been bagged and sent to the lab for testing for any forensic evidence. If any had been found it could have been helpful in determining if a poi or undetermined person had been in the bed or not. Linens are washed and any forensic of hair, body fluids would have been very helpful. MHOO

I agree IJM. Everything in the bedroom should have been bagged and tagged since there was some indication that an altercation had taken place in her bedroom.

JMHO

[Its just me]

I agree IJM. Everything in the bedroom should have been bagged and tagged since there was some indication that an altercation had taken place in her bedroom.

JMHO

All the poi's state when they last saw Tara there could have been evidence on Tara's clothes or the bed linens that state different. There is no logicial explaniation that will ever explain to me why this should not have been done. I know I am not the brightest bulb in this bunch nor the sweetest in the cookie jar but there are some thing that boils down to plain old fashion common sense. Thank you for your reply it helps give me confidence that my strong opinion is correct.

[ipswitch]

All the poi's state when they last saw Tara there could have been evidence on Tara's clothes or the bed linens that state different. There is no logicial explaniation that will ever explain to me why this should not have been done. I know I am not the brightest bulb in this bunch nor the sweetest in the cookie jar but there are some thing that boils down to plain old fashion common sense. Thank you for your reply it helps give me confidence that my strong opinion is correct.

ITA about there being no logical explanation as to why this was not done. A LOT of evidence could have been lost since it wasn't done. Also, I happen to think you are a bright bulb, and you know that!! And you are sweet as a cookie! BTW, you're welcome for the reply ;)

ipswitch

[mooloo]

Sweet as a cookie?? oh oh Does this mean you are going all pink and fluffy on us, Feppy? Say it ain't so!! :biggrin:

ITA about there being no logical explanation as to why this was not done. A LOT of evidence could have been lost since it wasn't done. Also, I happen to think you are a bright bulb, and you know that!! And you are sweet as a cookie! BTW, you're welcome for the reply ;)

ipswitch

[sogalady]

Sweet as a cookie?? oh oh Does this mean you are going all pink and fluffy on us, Feppy? Say it ain't so!! :biggrin:

Moo, I have been hoping and praying that the bright bulb doesn't give off a pink glow ! Let's keep our fingers crossed!

(Only kidding, we have no need to worry that Fep isn't the sweetest cookie in the jar,,,,,,,we know that she is.........and it is not a pink cookie either !);)

[PNut]

Talla, your probably right.

I too appreciate Freshwater and David. I think it was past time that posters were called down for so casually mentioning names especially of the GBI. I also think from my experiences that we need to be mindful of what we bring to the board so as not to contaminate what could be used in court if this is found to be a case that goes to trial. Remember if there is a perp he/she more than likely reads this board. We are giving them all the information they would need to find ways to cover their tracks even better. AMOHO

[Results]

I too appreciate Freshwater and David. I think it was past time that posters were called down for so casually mentioning names especially of the GBI. I also think from my experiences that we need to be mindful of what we bring to the board so as not to contaminate what could be used in court if this is found to be a case that goes to trial. Remember if there is a perp he/she more than likely reads this board. We are giving them all the information they would need to find ways to cover their tracks even better. AMOHO

Yeap! You're probably right!

[Brainstorm]

Right about not mentioning GBI names,etc. or that Tara was stalked?
I believe HD was sneaking around,discovering for himself what Tara was really doing,so is this stalking?
JMHO

[odette]

Very good post. Makes you really wonder why some are so out to beat the dead horse.

You're probably right.

imo

[janis]

I too appreciate Freshwater and David. I think it was past time that posters were called down for so casually mentioning names especially of the GBI. I also think from my experiences that we need to be mindful of what we bring to the board so as not to contaminate what could be used in court if this is found to be a case that goes to trial. Remember if there is a perp he/she more than likely reads this board. We are giving them all the information they would need to find ways to cover their tracks even better. AMOHO


Oh Yeah, you are probably right

[dixinites]

Kathmandu - you have asked lots and lots of questions that no one seems to be able to answer for you. David Lohr has so graciously offered to contact witnesses/LE/GBI and ask questions. What I suggest is that you get all your unanswered questions together and send them to David and hopefully he'll be able to find the answers you're looking for. :patriot:

Excellent suggestion!

[dixinites]

SNIP>I also think from my experiences that we need to be mindful of what we bring to the board so as not to contaminate what could be used in court if this is found to be a case that goes to trial. <SNIP AMOHO

Does anyone actually think that information from this board would be used in court regarding Tara's case, "contaminated" or otherwise? It's just a message board for crying out loud! Maybe someone is thinking themselves a little too important, IMO.

[fsbiii]

It does seem a bit extreme, IMO. Maybe too much Court TV viewing or Law & Order, perhaps. I can't think of the applicable objection in court for messageboard contamination of evidence, but there could be one.

It goes without saying, but Talla is probably right.

Does anyone actually think that information from this board would be used in court regarding Tara's case, "contaminated" or otherwise? It's just a message board for crying out loud! Maybe someone is thinking themselves a little too important, IMO.

[Its just me]

It does seem a bit extreme, IMO. Maybe too much Court TV viewing or Law & Order, perhaps. I can't think of the applicable objection in court for messageboard contamination of evidence, but there could be one.

It goes without saying, but Talla is probably right.

Didn't think hearsay was allowed on the witness stand. Might be hard to pick a jury from Irwing County. If the DA gets good enough evidence to make a case I don't ctv will be a part of it. What could the defense argue? My client is not quilty because IJM posted on CTV that so and so could have done did it. And the DA would say oh no FSB said that aint the case because he thinks your client did it. If there is a trial and it would be in Ocilla the most difficult thing again would be setting an unbiased jury and the start of all this was one finger on the Monday Tara was determined missing. JMHOO

[The R]

Bumping - we had some pretty good converstions going here - can anyone answer The R's question? :shrug:

evidently no one from here has spoken to the detective or maybe they don't want to say they have.


ALLMO,
R

[One2Snoop]

evidently no one from here has spoken to the detective or maybe they don't want to say they have.


ALLMO,
R

You're probably right - to skeery to say on a message board IMO. http://i17.tinypic.com/48vuis5.gif There is a thread titled Det. Barrs and I read thru page 2 and couldn't find an answer for you - not sure if there's an answer in there on pages 3-5 but it might be worth a looksee. Here's the link....

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=258077

[mooloo]

I probably agree with One2, in that Fizzy is probably right.


You're probably right - to skeery to say on a message board IMO. http://i17.tinypic.com/48vuis5.gif There is a thread titled Det. Barrs and I read thru page 2 and couldn't find an answer for you - not sure if there's an answer in there on pages 3-5 but it might be worth a looksee. Here's the link....

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=258077

[lighthousedazy]

for some reason, i can almost hear the shift in the reasoning behind why some are now trying to encourage others to abandon this discussion.

imo, with regards to what may have taken place in this case, i would like to say that no matter what anyone feels about LE or GBI, there are bound to be a few bad apples that cause others to carry a pre-conceived notion, but i prefer to go against the grain here and say i do not feel that way. i think work is being done at every bend and turn that is possible.

i am very optomistic that the truth will be known, if not known already, but i will also say that i feel unsure whether we will ever know it, but that doesn't mean i don't feel we should stop wanting it. nobody who truly cares will ever stop wanting the truth, but i have to remind myself in this case that it was curiosity that killed the cat.

katFirst paragraph; I don't think some are trying to abandon this discussion. Second paragraph; I will always stand by LE, yes sometimes there is a bad apple in some barrel. Third paragraph; I tend to agree. jmo

[lighthousedazy]

First paragraph; I don't think some are trying to abandon this discussion. Second paragraph; I will always stand by LE, yes sometimes there is a bad apple in some barrel. Third paragraph; I tend to agree. jmo
Ps. Hate to quote myself, but as I said , I will stand by LE, but I will not stand by the bad apple. jmo

[fsbiii]

You're probably right.

for some reason, i can almost hear the shift in the reasoning behind why some are now trying to encourage others to abandon this discussion.

imo, with regards to what may have taken place in this case, i would like to say that no matter what anyone feels about LE or GBI, there are bound to be a few bad apples that cause others to carry a pre-conceived notion, but i prefer to go against the grain here and say i do not feel that way. i think work is being done at every bend and turn that is possible.

i am very optomistic that the truth will be known, if not known already, but i will also say that i feel unsure whether we will ever know it, but that doesn't mean i don't feel we should stop wanting it. nobody who truly cares will ever stop wanting the truth, but i have to remind myself in this case that it was curiosity that killed the cat.

kat

[PNut]

you are most likely correct.

for some reason, i can almost hear the shift in the reasoning behind why some are now trying to encourage others to abandon this discussion.

imo, with regards to what may have taken place in this case, i would like to say that no matter what anyone feels about LE or GBI, there are bound to be a few bad apples that cause others to carry a pre-conceived notion, but i prefer to go against the grain here and say i do not feel that way. i think work is being done at every bend and turn that is possible.

i am very optomistic that the truth will be known, if not known already, but i will also say that i feel unsure whether we will ever know it, but that doesn't mean i don't feel we should stop wanting it. nobody who truly cares will ever stop wanting the truth, but i have to remind myself in this case that it was curiosity that killed the cat.

kat

[Brainstorm]

Didn't think hearsay was allowed on the witness stand. Might be hard to pick a jury from Irwing County. If the DA gets good enough evidence to make a case I don't ctv will be a part of it. What could the defense argue? My client is not quilty because IJM posted on CTV that so and so could have done did it. And the DA would say oh no FSB said that aint the case because he thinks your client did it. If there is a trial and it would be in Ocilla the most difficult thing again would be setting an unbiased jury and the start of all this was one finger on the Monday Tara was determined missing. JMHOO

I only wish we could get to the point od NEEDING a jury.
I'm afraid someone may get away with murder,here....
simply because of what happened on day 1,with AG,CONFUSION........
thats all they had to do,create confusion.....
I dont see how Anita can stand herself.IMO,she is the main person that stirred up this confusion,and it was PROBABLY because of conversations
with HD.
I cant prove anything,but I sure do feel strongly about this.
I am of the opinion that it would be much easier to tell the truth,bring Tara home,then ask God for forgiveness,instead of fooling the world,keeping that secret, then having to face God on judgement day.
Some people just DONT get this.....

I am planning on some searches myself,this spring and summer.I feel an almost desperate need to help Tara.For all the surface appearances,Tara had
an ideal life,living the dream,but I believe Tara was a very sad and lonely
girl.
JMHO

[concernedperson]

Does anyone ever think maybe everything is winding down? Maybe that is best? Let the students get back to normal and move on?

Just curious....

I have always wondered about this post. Do you think that a little over a month was the appropriate time to declare this "the best' time for winding down?

Just curious.....

[One2Snoop]

I have always wondered about this post. Do you think that a little over a month was the appropriate time to declare this "the best' time for winding down?

Just curious.....

That post is from Nov, 2005 - Those were 3 questions mooloo asked. I don't see any declaration of anything in there. :confused: And were bringing this up now, for what reason? :shrug:

[Its just me]

I hate to bump up my own post, but I was wondering if RML had time to check into this yet? rml, you offered to help clarify things, so I do appreciate that.



Is the FP that worked with TG (at the school) MH's aunt? the sister of MH's dad? IS ANY of that true or is the person pulling my proverbial leg here?
Kath How does a FP fit into a theory for Tara disappearing? I am lost.

[Its just me]

I have always wondered about this post. Do you think that a little over a month was the appropriate time to declare this "the best' time for winding down?

Just curious.....

CP don't go picking on mooloo. Trust me moo had nothing to do with Tara disappearing. If anyone don't understand my post just throw it in the trash. It's for cp only

[Its just me]

I hate to bump up my own post, but I was wondering if RML had time to check into this yet? rml, you offered to help clarify things, so I do appreciate that.



Is the FP that worked with TG (at the school) MH's aunt? the sister of MH's dad? IS ANY of that true or is the person pulling my proverbial leg here?

TMK and I got it from a good source. RML is not in the pulling legs business.

[Its just me]

Kath How does a FP fit into a theory for Tara disappearing? I am lost.

Quoting my self to add to Kath's request. If one is born and raised in Irwin County they are probably related in some way to half the county.

[mooloo]

Let's see...this post was when---November 2005? Whenever it was, it was long ago....and I don't remember the exact context in which it was posted.

You are just now having a problem with this, cp? Why didn't you let me know long ago? Let me know the complete thread that it came from...I'll be glad to defend it or explain it. I think it was in the context of letting the students get back to normal and stopping, or slowing, the circus-like atmosphere at school. High school kids are like lemmings in some respects...one cries, they all cry, one gets upset, they all get upset.

Dang, cp. Sorry you are so upset about this. Can't believe it has eaten on you for this long and you are just now thinking to post about it.

Maybe I should have sent a card?




I have always wondered about this post. Do you think that a little over a month was the appropriate time to declare this "the best' time for winding down?

Just curious.....

[mooloo]

At least!!

:lol:

Quoting my self to add to Kath's request. If one is born and raised in Irwin County they are probably related in some way to half the county.

[One2Snoop]

Mooloo - if you go up to CP's original post where she quoted you there's a little arrow next to your name. Click on it and it will take you back to where the post came from. Hope that helps.

Regarding that post - yeah I was like what the heck?????? :shrug:

[groucho]

Does anyone ever think maybe everything is winding down? Maybe that is best? Let the students get back to normal and move on?

Just curious.... This is in this thread, post #44. WAY BACK WHEN!

[odette]

Let's see...this post was when---November 2005? Whenever it was, it was long ago....and I don't remember the exact context in which it was posted.

You are just now having a problem with this, cp? Why didn't you let me know long ago? Let me know the complete thread that it came from...I'll be glad to defend it or explain it. I think it was in the context of letting the students get back to normal and stopping, or slowing, the circus-like atmosphere at school. High school kids are like lemmings in some respects...one cries, they all cry, one gets upset, they all get upset.

Dang, cp. Sorry you are so upset about this. Can't believe it has eaten on you for this long and you are just now thinking to post about it.

Maybe I should have sent a card?

"Maybe I should have sent a card?"

Maybe it's still not too late to send that card mooloo. Worth a try I guess.

imo

[mooloo]

http://www.makethemaccountable.com/podvin/images/FistThroughWall.jpg

I KNEW IT!!!!

And you are probably right, Odette!!



"Maybe I should have sent a card?"

Maybe it's still not too late to send that card mooloo. Worth a try I guess.

imo

[odette]

... :lol:

Ya just never know..

[Its just me]

oh no, you misunderstood.
i didn't insinuate RML was pulling anything.

when RML offered to clarify, i asked if maybe RML maybe could tell me if the info I had been given was true, or perhaps the person who told me was just "pulling my leg."

i didn't mean RML at all.


I'm still wondering.
RML, do you know if the info is true or was the source not telling me the truth? I appreciate your offer to help clarify. thanks.


Thank You for explaining this and please accept my humble apology for reading your post wrong. IJM

[readmylips]

oh no, you misunderstood.
i didn't insinuate RML was pulling anything.

when RML offered to clarify, i asked if maybe RML maybe could tell me if the info I had been given was true, or perhaps the person who told me was just "pulling my leg."

i didn't mean RML at all.


I'm still wondering.
RML, do you know if the info is true or was the source not telling me the truth? I appreciate your offer to help clarify. thanks.


i really can't help you any more than i have. i can't really understand what you are asking or why. i shared what i knew for fact. there is no fp who lives next door to the home tara visited that night. still wondering why it would matter if there was but rather not draw another innocent person in to the mix just for the sake of trying to understand where you're trying to go with it. i suspect i know already but if i am correct then there is even more reason to leave it alone. it's a waste of time and an uncalled for subject. but i could be wrong in my thinking. but i am probably right.

[IrwinIndian]

you are probably right readmylips

i really can't help you any more than i have. i can't really understand what you are asking or why. i shared what i knew for fact. there is no fp who lives next door to the home tara visited that night. still wondering why it would matter if there was but rather not draw another innocent person in to the mix just for the sake of trying to understand where you're trying to go with it. i suspect i know already but if i am correct then there is even more reason to leave it alone. it's a waste of time and an uncalled for subject. but i could be wrong in my thinking. but i am probably right.

[Seems2me]

From a several reliable sources from Ocilla this is what they had to say about the parking of HD's vehicles and he did have several that he did use. I was glad to confirm this was true. Here is the parking of the vehicles:

Witnessed Heath's Grey F-150 parked there no more than a week earlier

Witnessed Heath's vehicle parked behind the Masonic lodge at the corner of Irwin ave. and the street Tara lived on.

Witnessed Heath's truck and a Houston Co. govt car parked in her driveway

These witnesses are people who live there and know!

It is of my opinion that this is true and correct from not one source but many.

Results can you find out if there was something distinguishable about HD's truck beyond the Houston County tags? I am curious if there was a bumper sticker or decal or something else that would have made it easy to spot. I am unclear if you found out that the truck was parked in her driveway within the last week of her disappearance?
Does anyone understand the logic of why he parked in the driveway sometimes, at the Portier's sometimes and at the Masonic home other times? Was he placing his vehicle so it would be associated with Tara? Was he trying to send a message to someone? If he was really trying to be deceptive then why not park at the apartments on Five Bridges Road and walk to her house? Wouldn't it be about the same distance? Could he have been worried about vandalism to his truck and that is why he was keeping it close?

[Results]

Results can you find out if there was something distinguishable about HD's truck beyond the Houston County tags? I am curious if there was a bumper sticker or decal or something else that would have made it easy to spot. I am unclear if you found out that the truck was parked in her driveway within the last week of her disappearance?
Does anyone understand the logic of why he parked in the driveway sometimes, at the Portier's sometimes and at the Masonic home other times? Was he placing his vehicle so it would be associated with Tara? Was he trying to send a message to someone? If he was really trying to be deceptive then why not park at the apartments on Five Bridges Road and walk to her house? Wouldn't it be about the same distance? Could he have been worried about vandalism to his truck and that is why he was keeping it close?

Hmmmmmmmmmm. Great questions. I will try my best to see if anyone can help us out and if anyone that already knows maybe they can post this information. Thank you for your thought out post. Looking from this angle I believe we need to find out just why and what HD was doing it very well could lead us to a piece of the puzzle. JMHO

[mooloo]

I have no idea why he parked at the neighbor's house instead of at Tara's. Maybe her driveway was full?

Why would he not park at the apartments? Perhaps he didn't want to walk to Tara's? Perhaps he knew that if he left that truck at those apartments, he would be lucky to have a tail light left when he got back to it.

Results can you find out if there was something distinguishable about HD's truck beyond the Houston County tags? I am curious if there was a bumper sticker or decal or something else that would have made it easy to spot. I am unclear if you found out that the truck was parked in her driveway within the last week of her disappearance?
Does anyone understand the logic of why he parked in the driveway sometimes, at the Portier's sometimes and at the Masonic home other times? Was he placing his vehicle so it would be associated with Tara? Was he trying to send a message to someone? If he was really trying to be deceptive then why not park at the apartments on Five Bridges Road and walk to her house? Wouldn't it be about the same distance? Could he have been worried about vandalism to his truck and that is why he was keeping it close?

[One2Snoop]

I have no idea why he parked at the neighbor's house instead of at Tara's. Maybe her driveway was full?

Why would he not park at the apartments? Perhaps he didn't want to walk to Tara's? Perhaps he knew that if he left that truck at those apartments, he would be lucky to have a tail light left when he got back to it.

I'm just curious but is the area really that bad? :eek:

[The R]

I'm just curious but is the area really that bad? :eek:


Gosh O2S....you keep looking better all the time......


;)


ALLMO,
R

[One2Snoop]

Gosh O2S....you keep looking better all the time......


;)


ALLMO,
R

LOL, you're funny. :lol:

[The R]

Results can you find out if there was something distinguishable about HD's truck beyond the Houston County tags? I am curious if there was a bumper sticker or decal or something else that would have made it easy to spot. I am unclear if you found out that the truck was parked in her driveway within the last week of her disappearance?
Does anyone understand the logic of why he parked in the driveway sometimes, at the Portier's sometimes and at the Masonic home other times? Was he placing his vehicle so it would be associated with Tara? Was he trying to send a message to someone? If he was really trying to be deceptive then why not park at the apartments on Five Bridges Road and walk to her house? Wouldn't it be about the same distance? Could he have been worried about vandalism to his truck and that is why he was keeping it close?


My uneducated guess would be that he didn't want to establish a pattern of where he parked his car/truck every trip. I'm still wondering why anyone would park a govt. vehicle from another county nearby.......

ALLMO,
R

[dixinites]

I have no idea why he parked at the neighbor's house instead of at Tara's. Maybe her driveway was full?

Why would he not park at the apartments? Perhaps he didn't want to walk to Tara's? Perhaps he knew that if he left that truck at those apartments, he would be lucky to have a tail light left when he got back to it.

Maybe where he parked was determined by how long he planned to "visit"...overnight, for example. I'm still curious about what explanation Tara gave the P's for HD needing to park at their house. Perhaps it had something to do with the AV incident, since I doubt she would have told them the marital status of her "friend".

Parking at an apartment complex would seem a logical place to park if one was trying to remain "incognito", but it's hard to drive a taillight...JMO.

[mooloo]

Surely the P's knew why his car/truck was parked at their house and not hers?

Maybe where he parked was determined by how long he planned to "visit"...overnight, for example. I'm still curious about what explanation Tara gave the P's for HD needing to park at their house. Perhaps it had something to do with the AV incident, since I doubt she would have told them the marital status of her "friend".

Parking at an apartment complex would seem a logical place to park if one was trying to remain "incognito", but it's hard to drive a taillight...JMO.

[dixinites]

Surely the P's knew why his car/truck was parked at their house and not hers?

Maybe they figured it out, but I can't see Tara approaching them with that information. I see them as "old school" and people who Tara respected. I can't see her asking them to let her married friend park in their yard so that his wife would not find out about their relationship.

This has always bugged me, and I can only imagine that she made this request of them with some other explanation...perhaps she asked them after the AV incident, explaining that AV was watching her house. JMO.

[One2Snoop]

Maybe they figured it out, but I can't see Tara approaching them with that information. I see them as "old school" and people who Tara respected. I can't see her asking them to let her married friend park in their yard so that his wife would not find out about their relationship.

This has always bugged me, and I can only imagine that she made this request of them with some other explanation...perhaps she asked them after the AV incident, explaining that AV was watching her house. JMO.

:eek: Well there you go then. Wouldn't this make AV a stalker?

[butterbean]

Maybe they figured it out, but I can't see Tara approaching them with that information. I see them as "old school" and people who Tara respected. I can't see her asking them to let her married friend park in their yard so that his wife would not find out about their relationship.

This has always bugged me, and I can only imagine that she made this request of them with some other explanation...perhaps she asked them after the AV incident, explaining that AV was watching her house. JMO.

Maybe I'm wrong but I was under the impression HD was parking at the P's before the AV incident. Besides if AV was already familiar with HD's car wouldn't AV still see it in the P's yard?

[Its just me]

Maybe I'm wrong but I was under the impression HD was parking at the P's before the AV incident. Besides if AV was already familiar with HD's car wouldn't AV still see it in the P's yard?

I just don't see anyone noticing HD's vehicle parked any place would be out of the ordinary. Ocilla is a very small town and I would think everyone knows a lot of the people by first name and sad as it is people notice what there neighbors are doing. I may be wrong but I believe it is possible that Tara was dating more men than HD. I don't think HD parking his car at different places was necessary his concern of being seen but possible that Tara did not want HD's car parked at her house all the time. Totally speculation but possible. If HD's car was spotted near Tara's and he was seen sitting inside the car that would be a different story. Tara's life style was no secret to some and as neighbors I believe the P's knew much about Tara. Where they agreed or disagreed to this I have no idea but I think they cared about Tara and allowed HD to park his car there because they were good to Tara. Just an opinion that can be totally wrong. IJM

[mooloo]

Oh, I am pretty sure she didn't say..."Hey, can my married bf park his truck in your yard/garage so that no one will know he is at my house?" What I meant was the P's didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday...they knew what was going on or at least I would think they would be suspicious.

Maybe they figured it out, but I can't see Tara approaching them with that information. I see them as "old school" and people who Tara respected. I can't see her asking them to let her married friend park in their yard so that his wife would not find out about their relationship.

This has always bugged me, and I can only imagine that she made this request of them with some other explanation...perhaps she asked them after the AV incident, explaining that AV was watching her house. JMO.

[mooloo]

I think you are right....he parked there from whenever the beginning of his relationship with Tara. AV wasn't stalking her. He was upset because he thought he was "The One" and she had another man in her house. I wonder if he even tried to speak to her after his incident with Tara, HD and the LE.

Maybe I'm wrong but I was under the impression HD was parking at the P's before the AV incident. Besides if AV was already familiar with HD's car wouldn't AV still see it in the P's yard?

[The R]

Oh, I am pretty sure she didn't say..."Hey, can my married bf park his truck in your yard/garage so that no one will know he is at my house?" What I meant was the P's didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday...they knew what was going on or at least I would think they would be suspicious.


Maybe the P's didn't know he was married? For that matter did AV know HD was married? From the AV report, seems he only knew the guy wore a uniform.



ALLMO,
R

[dixinites]

Oh, I am pretty sure she didn't say..."Hey, can my married bf park his truck in your yard/garage so that no one will know he is at my house?" What I meant was the P's didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday...they knew what was going on or at least I would think they would be suspicious.

Oh, I'm sure they figured it out...I'm just wondering how Tara explained her request to let him park there. I don't think Tara told them he was married, but I'm pretty sure they did the math.

Lol, I don't think AV was stalking Tara, either. I'm guessing after the whole "banging on the door incident", he should have given Tara wide berth...but who knows. JMO.

[butterbean]

I just don't see anyone noticing HD's vehicle parked any place would be out of the ordinary. Ocilla is a very small town and I would think everyone knows a lot of the people by first name and sad as it is people notice what there neighbors are doing. I may be wrong but I believe it is possible that Tara was dating more men than HD. I don't think HD parking his car at different places was necessary his concern of being seen but possible that Tara did not want HD's car parked at her house all the time. Totally speculation but possible. If HD's car was spotted near Tara's and he was seen sitting inside the car that would be a different story. Tara's life style was no secret to some and as neighbors I believe the P's knew much about Tara. Where they agreed or disagreed to this I have no idea but I think they cared about Tara and allowed HD to park his car there because they were good to Tara. Just an opinion that can be totally wrong. IJM

IJM, I think you are on to something. I think Tara may have been telling HD where to park. I'm not sure why but perhaps there were times when she wanted the car seen and other times when it did not matter.

[dixinites]

IJM, I think you are on to something. I think Tara may have been telling HD where to park. I'm not sure why but perhaps there were times when she wanted the car seen and other times when it did not matter.

The only reason I can imagine for Tara wanting the car to be seen there would be to make someone jealous, but it would make more sense to me that he would avoid being seen in light of the fact that he was married. Maybe he parked at different locations to try to camoflauge the frequency of his visits.

I think where he parked was either of concern to Tara, or it was not, but that's just my opinion.

[concernedperson]

Prior to Tara's disappearance I wonder how many people in Ocilla had ever heard of HD? Did the people that spotted these vehicles placed around run a tag check to verify these vehicles belonged to HD? If so, why would they be concerned about who Tara was seeing? If not, the eye witness accounts were hindsight.

AV mentioned something about Tara liked uniformed men. It seemed to be a blanket statement meaning more than one....besides Marcus and Heath I wonder what other unifromed men she dated?

[groucho]

Prior to Tara's disappearance I wonder how many people in Ocilla had ever heard of HD? Did the people that spotted these vehicles placed around run a tag check to verify these vehicles belonged to HD? If so, why would they be concerned about who Tara was seeing? If not, the eye witness accounts were hindsight.

AV mentioned something about Tara liked uniformed men. It seemed to be a blanket statement meaning more than one....besides Marcus and Heath I wonder what other unifromed men she dated? cp, From what I have read a few people knew of HD, even right after she disappeared there are posts from these folks talking about him and his involvment. And you have been around long enough to have read and discussed who the other uniforms could be.

[Brainstorm]

I just don't see anyone noticing HD's vehicle parked any place would be out of the ordinary. Ocilla is a very small town and I would think everyone knows a lot of the people by first name and sad as it is people notice what there neighbors are doing. I may be wrong but I believe it is possible that Tara was dating more men than HD. I don't think HD parking his car at different places was necessary his concern of being seen but possible that Tara did not want HD's car parked at her house all the time. Totally speculation but possible. If HD's car was spotted near Tara's and he was seen sitting inside the car that would be a different story. Tara's life style was no secret to some and as neighbors I believe the P's knew much about Tara. Where they agreed or disagreed to this I have no idea but I think they cared about Tara and allowed HD to park his car there because they were good to Tara. Just an opinion that can be totally wrong. IJM

I Totally agree, IJM............and there's cars left at the community house,next door to this lodge, and thats on an almost daily basis,so even out of town LE vehicles wouldnt look odd to me at all.Even if he was sitting there. I passed by there several wks ago and every LE car in SE GA was there,IMO.............they were having a meeting,,,,,dinner and all,if I was told correctly.Seeing any LE vehicle stopped or parked at that lodge IMO wouldnt look unusual,either........
GAMES PEOPLE PLAY.........this is sad, IMO

[Brainstorm]

HD wasnt worried about Ocillians seeing him ,IMO...this was probably in case Mrs. D went to town,riding around.... a woman wants proof,IMO

[One2Snoop]

HD wasnt worried about Ocillians seeing him ,IMO...this was probably in case Mrs. D went to town,riding around.... a woman wants proof,IMO

That would certainly be some drive for her to take with children in tow. Somehow I just don't see that happening. JMO.

[concernedperson]

cp, From what I have read a few people knew of HD, even right after she disappeared there are posts from these folks talking about him and his involvment. And you have been around long enough to have read and discussed who the other uniforms could be.

My question was prior to Tara's disappearance not after. If a few knew of him...how did they know? Did Tara tell them...did they run tag checks on the vehicles to recognize his vehicle that was ostensibly parked around town? I think these are good discussion questions.

Yes, there is speculation about other uniforms but no one has provided a credible link/source. CL mentioned MH, HD, AV as beaux of Tara but no other men that I am aware of at this time.

[Its just me]

IJM, I think you are on to something. I think Tara may have been telling HD where to park. I'm not sure why but perhaps there were times when she wanted the car seen and other times when it did not matter.

I think Dix made a good point that it could be to make others jealous. What is important to me is HD was there. And he has been the only person identified as being at Tara's after she left the BBQ and the fact this was not brought out by HD or the G. family. I do not buy into the theory that HD was protecting Tara and certainly don't buy the theory that he was working as LE with Tara. To me it is not important where he parked his car unless he was seen watching Tara's house and I have seen no post of any evidence of this. HD is not my only poi but he is on the top of my list and until/if someone can do some explaining he will remain on the top. If he is innocent I am very sorry he is in this position but he can only blame himself and it's not too high of a price to pay for cheating on his wife in my book.

[readmylips]

My question was prior to Tara's disappearance not after. If a few knew of him...how did they know? Did Tara tell them...did they run tag checks on the vehicles to recognize his vehicle that was ostensibly parked around town? I think these are good discussion questions.

Yes, there is speculation about other uniforms but no one has provided a credible link/source. CL mentioned MH, HD, AV as beaux of Tara but no other men that I am aware of at this time.

cl mentioned hd, av and mh because someone else mentioned them to them. same as someone else mentioned whoever else they mentioned to you and to others. it's really all just he said she said coz le hasn't mentioned anybody tmk. the only difference in he said she said to me or to you vs he said she said to cl is that cl has a medium to publicize with that lends an air of authority to some. if everyone would absorb things with an informed mind then they would all realize that media is no more an authority source than the person who whispers something to you. determining who is a reputable source is a tricky thing to do. but i know for sure that many things reported by media are not factual and many things not reported are. in this case and in every other subject reported by media.

[Its just me]

I know of one person Tara told about HD. AV was aware of HD and so was the LE officers. Very possible each of these told someone and that someone told someone.

[dixinites]

SNIP>AV mentioned something about Tara liked uniformed men. It seemed to be a blanket statement meaning more than one....besides Marcus and Heath I wonder what other unifromed men she dated?

Tara's former boyfriend and, apparently in AV's eyes, Tara's "new" boyfriend, were both men in uniform. That would be enough, IMO, for AV to make this statement. There could have been others, but not neccesarily. JMO.

[jond]

I Totally agree, IJM............and there's cars left at the community house,next door to this lodge, and thats on an almost daily basis,so even out of town LE vehicles wouldnt look odd to me at all.Even if he was sitting there. I passed by there several wks ago and every LE car in SE GA was there,IMO.............they were having a meeting,,,,,dinner and all,if I was told correctly.Seeing any LE vehicle stopped or parked at that lodge IMO wouldnt look unusual,either........
GAMES PEOPLE PLAY.........this is sad, IMO

Ocilla is a small town, but I don't think any Chevy or Ford would attract attention unless you were looking for a specific Chevy or Ford. I passed through Ocilla a few weeks ago , I do doubt my vehicle was noticed and caused much consternation at this "oddity". IMO, any "recall" of HD at the Masonic lodge etc, is, at this time is rather convenient unless one was looking for HD, or approached the vehicle for a tag ID.

[groucho]

If these people were posting as early as Nov '05 asking about HD then common sense tells me that they knew before she disappeared for them to bring his name up.

[dixinites]

That would certainly be some drive for her to take with children in tow. Somehow I just don't see that happening. JMO.

That's true...it would be unlikely for her to go snooping without cause, but maybe he didn't want to take that chance, since it has been said that this wasn't his "first time". I'm sure that Mrs.D. had friends or family that would keep her kids, in the event she wanted to "take a little ride".:shrug:

[The R]

Prior to Tara's disappearance I wonder how many people in Ocilla had ever heard of HD? Did the people that spotted these vehicles placed around run a tag check to verify these vehicles belonged to HD? If so, why would they be concerned about who Tara was seeing? If not, the eye witness accounts were hindsight.

AV mentioned something about Tara liked uniformed men. It seemed to be a blanket statement meaning more than one....besides Marcus and Heath I wonder what other unifromed men she dated?

....well you got two POI's that we know of that were men in uniform....that's enough to qualify it as 'men' but it could have obviously been more...I said COULD......I mentioned earlier that HD may have parked at different locations to avoid a pattern; I still think that was it IMO. Obviously anyone arriving after dark wouldn't have to be as careful. I kinda follow too your thought on HD possibly not being that well known in Ocilla prior to the disappearance...that's why I asked earlier if the P's and AV knew HD was married. It might seem obvious to us now knowing what we do, but you have to think 'then' to get the right perspective.

Do any locals here have first hand knowledge of an HD-TG affair prior to the disappearance? If so, did you know he was hitched? That'd be a nice one to see answered.....

ALLMO,
R

[One2Snoop]

That's true...it would be unlikely for her to go snooping without cause, but maybe he didn't want to take that chance, since it has been said that this wasn't his "first time". I'm sure that Mrs.D. had friends or family that would keep her kids, in the event she wanted to "take a little ride".:shrug:


You're probably right - LOL ;)

[The R]

You're probably right - LOL ;)

just had to go and change that avatar, eh? Hope I wasn't the cause of that......

:)

ALLMO,
R

[jond]

....well you got two POI's that we know of that were men in uniform....that's enough to qualify it as 'men' but it could have obviously been more...I said COULD......I mentioned earlier that HD may have parked at different locations to avoid a pattern; I still think that was it IMO. Obviously anyone arriving after dark wouldn't have to be as careful. I kinda follow too your thought on HD possibly not being that well known in Ocilla prior to the disappearance...that's why I asked earlier if the P's and AV knew HD was married. It might seem obvious to us now knowing what we do, but you have to think 'then' to get the right perspective.

Do any locals here have first hand knowledge of an HD-TG affair prior to the disappearance? If so, did you know he was hitched? That'd be a nice one to see answered.....

ALLMO,
R

My question is who would have reason to care and act? The Ps may not like it and it may make good gossip for the old hens, but beyond that who does it trouble enough to...?

[Its just me]

Ocilla is a small town, but I don't think any Chevy or Ford would attract attention unless you were looking for a specific Chevy or Ford. I passed through Ocilla a few weeks ago , I do doubt my vehicle was noticed and caused much consternation at this "oddity". IMO, any "recall" of HD at the Masonic lodge etc, is, at this time is rather convenient unless one was looking for HD, or approached the vehicle for a tag ID.

Jond what size of town, city or community do you live? I drove by Tara's house and through her neighborhood for a good while and I think I passed 2 or 3 cars. I have no problem with someone seeing HD car parked anywhere especially if it was at night. Probably was the only car there and there were people in Ocilla who knew about Tara and HD before she disappeared. No one had to be stalking HD to drive by and see and recognize his vehicle parked any where in Ocilla nor did they need a tag number to ID it. JMHOO

[dixinites]

Ocilla is a small town, but I don't think any Chevy or Ford would attract attention unless you were looking for a specific Chevy or Ford. I passed through Ocilla a few weeks ago , I do doubt my vehicle was noticed and caused much consternation at this "oddity". IMO, any "recall" of HD at the Masonic lodge etc, is, at this time is rather convenient unless one was looking for HD, or approached the vehicle for a tag ID.

I doubt, too, that your vehicle attracted alot of attention as it passed thru town. However, I doubt that would be the case if you were "dating" an attractive young teacher who had lived in Ocilla for years, particularly if she had recently broken up with a longtime boyfriend who was a former LE officer. If nothing else, I imagine the LE officers in the area were "curious" about the goings on at Tara's because they were familiar with her thru MH.

I think they would notice, as would neighbors. JMO.

[jond]

I doubt, too, that your vehicle attracted alot of attention as it passed thru town. However, I doubt that would be the case if you were "dating" an attractive young teacher who had lived in Ocilla for years, particularly if she had recently broken up with a longtime boyfriend who was a former LE officer. If nothing else, I imagine the LE officers in the area were "curious" about the goings on at Tara's because they were familiar with her thru MH.

I think they would notice, as would neighbors. JMO.

Maybe so, and perhaps my take on people...just think that most are more concerned with whats for dinner than who is seeing who, and what truck is where.

[dixinites]

My question is who would have reason to care and act? The Ps may not like it and it may make good gossip for the old hens, but beyond that who does it trouble enough to...?

...to what? Notice? Again, I think LE would notice. They patrol the town and they are paid to be observant...and Tara's "friends" would have been noticed by them, in particular, because of all the "drama" which had been going on with MH. I don't know for sure, but I doubt that LE is above "gossiping" about things they "observe". JMO.

[jond]

...to what? Notice? Again, I think LE would notice. They patrol the town and they are paid to be observant...and Tara's "friends" would have been noticed by them, in particular, because of all the "drama" which had been going on with MH. I don't know for sure, but I doubt that LE is above "gossiping" about things they "observe". JMO.

Ouch, tag teamed, LOL. Don't doubt what you say, do doubt that all of Ocilla is 'looking our for them der strangers'. Maybe ya'll have laid out a case for foolin around, but, IMO, HD is innocent of ya'lls more sinister implicatons. C'mon now, ya got to appreciate a differing view every now and then, eh, if not, you just keeping talking bout the same old thangs.

[dixinites]

Ouch, tag teamed, LOL. Don't doubt what you say, do doubt that all of Ocilla is 'looking our for them der strangers'. Maybe ya'll have laid out a case for foolin around, but, IMO, HD is innocent of ya'lls more sinister implicatons. C'mon now, ya got to appreciate a differing view every now and then, eh, if not, you just keeping talking bout the same old thangs.

Well, I'm a'guessin that the folks in O-cilla (even the ones with shoes) don't give a possum's az about whether or not thar's a stranger in town, as long as they mind thar own bidnez...and it ain't like yous offerin up anythang new to talk about. But thanks for differin'...

No offense, Y'all...just respondin' in "kind".

[Results]

Ouch, tag teamed, LOL. Don't doubt what you say, do doubt that all of Ocilla is 'looking our for them der strangers'. Maybe ya'll have laid out a case for foolin around, but, IMO, HD is innocent of ya'lls more sinister implicatons. C'mon now, ya got to appreciate a differing view every now and then, eh, if not, you just keeping talking bout the same old thangs.

Ok lets go with your theory HD is innocent. Do you think your tax dollars should pay for his gas to to Tara's in Ocilla whenever he felt like taking his Official vehicle? He doesn't get involved when AV puts his hands on Tara because everything is innocent and he must remain unseen. Lets say he innocent he is in his truck in the morning of Tara's disappearance but goes home to get his Official vehicle and then again the state pays for his gas to go to Ocilla again. Is it common that you can use your Official vehicle for whatever reason, whenever you feel like it? I'm just curious on how this Official vehicle can be allowed to be abused by an Officer. Can you help me out with this jond? TIA

[Its just me]

Ouch, tag teamed, LOL. Don't doubt what you say, do doubt that all of Ocilla is 'looking our for them der strangers'. Maybe ya'll have laid out a case for foolin around, but, IMO, HD is innocent of ya'lls more sinister implicatons. C'mon now, ya got to appreciate a differing view every now and then, eh, if not, you just keeping talking bout the same old thangs.

What do you think HD was doing at Tara's during the week-end she disappeared. Willing to hear any view.

[jond]

Well, I'm a'guessin that the folks in O-cilla (even the ones with shoes) don't give a possum's az about whether or not thar's a stranger in town, as long as they mind thar own bidnez...and it ain't like yous offerin up anythang new to talk about. But thanks for differin'..

No offense, Y'all...just respondin' in "kind".

Now, now...my position has always been a little different. No GBI conspiracy, no HD, no family involvement, you can look back if you wish. It has been reported that a Chevy is in question not a Ford for the night, there may be more common threads than the obvious.

[Results]

Now, now...my position has always been a little different. No GBI conspiracy, no HD, no family involvement, you can look back if you wish. It has been reported that a Chevy is in question not a Ford for the night, there may be more common threads than the obvious.

Well if we are going by the chevy truck then you must think no MH, right?

[dixinites]

SNIP> there may be more common threads than the obvious.

Meaning...................?

[jond]

Ok lets go with your theory HD is innocent. #1 Do you think your tax dollars should pay for his gas to to Tara's in Ocilla whenever he felt like taking his Official vehicle? #2 He doesn't get involved when AV puts his hands on Tara because everything is innocent and he must remain unseen. #3Lets say he innocent he is in his truck in the morning of Tara's disappearance but goes home to get his Official vehicle and then again the state pays for his gas to go to Ocilla again. #4 Is it common that you can use your Official vehicle for whatever reason, whenever you feel like it? #5 I'm just curious on how this Official vehicle can be allowed to be abused by an Officer. Can you help me out with this jond? TIA

Ouch, triple teamed. #1 Don't care, call the Chief or County Commissoner. #2 More concerneed with "AV put his hands on Tara", can see why he doesn't want his name out. #3 If he is innocent, thats pretty big, IMO, not worried about the gas. #4 Don't think so, but not my problem. #5 Not worried about the use of an official vehicle, nor do I think its supposed misuse, merits the charge of murder.

[Its just me]

Now, now...my position has always been a little different. No GBI conspiracy, no HD, no family involvement, you can look back if you wish. It has been reported that a Chevy is in question not a Ford for the night, there may be more common threads than the obvious.

Please point me to where you get your information on where a Chevy is in question. We actually don't know when Tara left or were removed from her home.

[jond]

What do you think HD was doing at Tara's during the week-end she disappeared. Willing to hear any view.

Wow, not being in the group has me busy. When you say HD was at TG during the weekend, do you mean Friday through Sunday, or as I think late Sunday - early Monday?

[jond]

Please point me to where you get your information on where a Chevy is in question. We actually don't know when Tara left or were removed from her home.

Where's my bench, I need some players:
Two of the people did not see anyone who may have been driving that vehicle. One of those people did. One of the person -- one the people saw the person believed to be driving this Chevrolet pickup, and actually spoke to this person, had verbal contact with him.

So now investigators are trying to track down this pickup, trying to track down whoever this person who may have been driving is.

GRACE: Robert, are they sure it was a Chevy? Are they absolutely positive it was a Chevy pickup?

PRESTON: It has been positively identified as a Chevy pickup. Initially, there was some confusion whether it may have been a Chevy, may have been a Ford. But for those of you that know pickups know that a Chevy and a Ford are two distinct vehicles. So...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Robert, Robert, what time of the night was this?

PRESTON: The truck was seen several times during the weekend. The most recent time or the latest time it was seen was about 6:00 in the morning on October 24th when Tara was reported missing.

GRACE: To Tara Grinstead`s sister, Anita Gattis, I`m happy we`ve got tip, I`m happy we`ve got the break, Anita. But why are we just learning this?

ANITA GATTIS, MISSING TARA GRINSTEAD`S SISTER: Well, Nancy, we had heard early on about neighbors of Tara`s who saw a dark vehicle in her yard early Monday morning when they went to the convenient store. This person was interviewed by GBI police. I don`t know what they chalked that experience up to, you know, not really sure why they didn`t pursue that any further.

We`ve also found out that a teenager who saw the car had verbal contact and some profanity was exchanged. So I can understand why he`s been a little hesitant, plus he was here visiting with a neighbor who had moved a few weeks after Tara disappeared. So we had some issues in tracking him down.

While we were tracking that kid down, we found a 23-year-old man who saw the vehicle here at another point. Now, I want to make it clear: The vehicle was not here all weekend; it evidently was coming and going and came without being noticed and drawing a lot of attention, so we`re wondering if it was a vehicle that had been here before, someone that knew Tara.

GRACE: OK, let me get this straight. The vehicle was parked -- snip

Back to her sister, Anita Gattis. Now, why would someone exchange profanity with -- I assume it was a male -- the guy driving this black Chevy parked up on her yard?

GATTIS: Well, you know, that`s a big question to us, too. This kid was playing in the side street that`s next to Tara`s house. The guy was outside the truck. He looked over at him, said some profanity to the kid, so the kid, you know, takes off back inside. That`s what we don`t know: Why this was person angry just because he was recognized?

GRACE: Well, to Richard Herman, whoever is driving a black Chevy pickup -- and maybe you`re better at it than I am -- but in the middle of the night, I don`t know if I could tell a Chevy from a Ford parked up in somebody`s yard, but apparently not one, not two, but three people have observed this vehicle.

Now, Richard, you know, I don`t want to prejudge the case. I would never do a thing like that.

HERMAN: No, not you, Nancy.

GRACE: But here`s the thing: If this person isn`t connected to her disappearance, why haven`t they come forward to say, "Oh, I`m part of the time line. I can tell you she was here, there, this, that, at this time the weekend"? So why are they shrinking back? snip

[Results]

Ouch, triple teamed. #1 Don't care, call the Chief or County Commissoner. #2 More concerneed with "AV put his hands on Tara", can see why he doesn't want his name out. #3 If he is innocent, thats pretty big, IMO, not worried about the gas. #4 Don't think so, but not my problem. #5 Not worried about the use of an official vehicle, nor do I think its supposed misuse, merits the charge of murder.

Thank you for your response. Sorry you think you were trippled team I was trying to see your angle but "you don't seem worried" about anything. Thank you for your time. Since you think I am tag teaming you I won't discuss further with you to make sure that you feel comfortable. I don't want to be accused of running posters off. Once again thank you for the time to answer. Have a good night! JMHO

[jond]

Well if we are going by the chevy truck then you must think no MH, right?

aint I said that, many,many times.

[jond]

Thank you for your response. Sorry you think you were trippled team I was trying to see your angle but "you don't seem worried" about anything. Thank you for your time. Since you think I am tag teaming you I won't discuss further with you to make sure that you feel comfortable. I don't want to be accused of running posters off. Once again thank you for the time to answer. Have a good night! JMHO

Results, no problem here, we have had decent opposing discussions in the past and this is no different. Perhaps, it is just me ( and the LHG could grudgingly give Broadway, Talla, and maybe me thanks for giving ya somebody else to talk to or about ), but any view not in agreement with the LGH is met by all members of the LHG, and thats OK, sometimes people in a group agree, and sometimes there is one or two outside the group that do not, and, IMO, thats OK too.

[Results]

Results, no problem here, we have had decent opposing discussions in the past and this is no different. Perhaps, it is just me ( and the LHG could grudgingly give Broadway, Talla, and maybe me thanks for giving ya somebody else to talk to or about ), but any view not in agreement with the LGH is met by all members of the LHG, and thats OK, sometimes people in a group agree, and sometimes there is one or two outside the group that do not, and, IMO, thats OK too.

Jond, I have always debated you with respect. I have asked for your opinion on things to try to see things from your angle and believe it or not I have always took what you said and apply it to many theories that is why I have always enjoyed debating with you. Tonight though your first response to me was I was triple teaming you and I was not. I have never thought that AG was involved with the disappearance of Tara nor LG, and I had concerns of the GBI and asked for confirmation and was the first person to apologize to DT for my information according to CL is false. You keep mentioning the LHG. I will say this AGAIN...I am not here for anybody but Tara. After each debate that we have had I have always thanked you for a nice chat and how I enjoyed it so I do take offense jond that you would say I was tripple teaming you when from our past experience you would know that I was not doing that. JMHO

[dixinites]

IMO, Broadway has brought a different perspective and do not see his posts in the same light as the Long Haulers. You may see derailment, but, IMO, Broadway by his questions and input tried to put the train back on track, more of a rerailment than a derailment. His credibility ruined? No, IMO, perhaps strengthened, and for the most part, Broadway has tried to let what little known evidence lead him to the culprit and has not preselected who should be guilty then wrapped the facts, rumors, or constructed scenarios around the unlucky. Regarding Results, who I believe sincere, perhaps, no likely, her "sources" were full of bad intent and took advantage of the situation. Maybe, just maybe, those outside the "group" aint so crazy after all.

I could not let this one mildew. Whether BJ has attempted to derail posting in the past is a non-issue for me. What I do have a problem with is your inference here that the "Long-Haulers" have preselected a guilty party and manipulated anything to "fit".

If you are sincerely interested in this case, then you have read back from the beginning. You will note that many POI's have been in the "unlucky" seat at different times, according to the information made available at that particular moment.

The "Long-Haulers" don't even agree on every aspect of this case, but they attempt to focus on one "train of thought" at a time. What I perceive as derailment is when someone comes on the board with information that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Whether someone has been here from the beginning, or just signed up today, has no reflection on the value of their posts. Those who HAVE been here from the beginning, however, have seen alot of posters come and go and it is understandable that they would be a little "gun-shy".

If someone does not like the climate here, then they would do well to just move on. The LHG is just that...here for the long haul. Deal with it.

BUMPING IN CASE YOU MISSED IT, J.

[jond]

I could not let this one mildew. Whether BJ has attempted to derail posting in the past is a non-issue for me. What I do have a problem with is your inference here that the "Long-Haulers" have preselected a guilty party and manipulated anything to "fit".

If you are sincerely interested in this case, then you have read back from the beginning. You will note that many POI's have been in the "unlucky" seat at different times, according to the information made available at that particular moment.

The "Long-Haulers" don't even agree on every aspect of this case, but they attempt to focus on one "train of thought" at a time. What I perceive as derailment is when someone comes on the board with information that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Whether someone has been here from the beginning, or just signed up today, has no reflection on the value of their posts. Those who HAVE been here from the beginning, however, have seen alot of posters come and go and it is understandable that they would be a little "gun-shy".

If someone does not like the climate here, then they would do well to just move on. The LHG is just that...here for the long haul. Deal with it.
BUMPING IN CASE YOU MISSED IT, J.

Again, I do disagree. and there is a mistake being made "to focus on one "train of thought" at a time"


'If someone does not like the climate here, then they would do well to just move on. The LHG is just that...here for the long haul. Deal with it."

Now, that is an appropriate statement...either go with the flow, or get out. Results, this is what one outside the group deals with.

[Results]

The "Long-Haulers" don't even agree on every aspect of this case, but they attempt to focus on one "train of thought" at a time. What I perceive as derailment is when someone comes on the board with information that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

BUMPING IN CASE YOU MISSED IT, J.

You are very correct the LHG does not agree on many things but at least there is a debate going on about it there is no snide remarks and the advantage of this is many times it will make you reconsider what you think that is exactly why an opinion can change everyday, every hour, or every second. You have to actually listen to another poster that is giving you their view and if you are seriously searching for the truth you enter it with an open mind. JMHO

[ipswitch]

I could not let this one mildew. Whether BJ has attempted to derail posting in the past is a non-issue for me. What I do have a problem with is your inference here that the "Long-Haulers" have preselected a guilty party and manipulated anything to "fit".

If you are sincerely interested in this case, then you have read back from the beginning. You will note that many POI's have been in the "unlucky" seat at different times, according to the information made available at that particular moment.

The "Long-Haulers" don't even agree on every aspect of this case, but they attempt to focus on one "train of thought" at a time. What I perceive as derailment is when someone comes on the board with information that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Whether someone has been here from the beginning, or just signed up today, has no reflection on the value of their posts. Those who HAVE been here from the beginning, however, have seen alot of posters come and go and it is understandable that they would be a little "gun-shy".

If someone does not like the climate here, then they would do well to just move on. The LHG is just that...here for the long haul. Deal with it.

BUMPING IN CASE YOU MISSED IT, J.

Again, I do disagree. and there is a mistake being made "to focus on one "train of thought" at a time"


'If someone does not like the climate here, then they would do well to just move on. The LHG is just that...here for the long haul. Deal with it."

Now, that is an appropriate statement...either go with the flow, or get out. Results, this is what one outside the group deals with.

jond, here's what I posted on another thread, FWIW, I agree with your statement.

Fine, y'all can be the LHG, but there are some of us here that have been here since the beginning who are not considered members of the LHG, and in fact get slammed by the LHG.

All I know is that just because you don't agree about how something is/was handled, doesn't mean that you slam them for all eternity, accuse them of lying, accuse them of impersonating others, etc. They have every right to be here, and voice their own opinions about the case. They don't have to have posts deleted because they disagree with any member of the LHG.

I have seen many members here who have BEEN here for the entire time (or at least following it for the entire time) grow quiet because of members of LHG.

I don't care how y'all answer, Gibberish, You're probably right, or whatever "new" you don't care about certain posters phrases that the LHG comes up with on TT, just know that there are many valuable people who would post if it weren't for some of the LHG's "scare" tactics.

JMHO

[dixinites]

Ouch, triple teamed. #1 Don't care, call the Chief or County Commissoner. #2 More concerneed with "AV put his hands on Tara", can see why he doesn't want his name out. #3 If he is innocent, thats pretty big, IMO, not worried about the gas. #4 Don't think so, but not my problem. #5 Not worried about the use of an official vehicle, nor do I think its supposed misuse, merits the charge of murder.

Duly noted...I'm not really concerned about the "official" vehicle or gas either, but your flip attitude is duly noted, as well.

I'm not a member of any "group", either, but since that doesn't bother me like it seems to bother you, I won't be lining up to be on your "bench".

Sorry if you got "teamed up on"...WAAAAAAAAAAAH! Stick a fork in it, I'm done.

[dixinites]

#1:Again, I do disagree. and there is a mistake being made "to focus on one "train of thought" at a time"


#2:'If someone does not like the climate here, then they would do well to just move on. The LHG is just that...here for the long haul. Deal with it."

#3:Now, that is an appropriate statement...either go with the flow, or get out. Results, this is what one outside the group deals with.

#1: Whatever...
#2: They are not going anywhere, so why whine about it.
#3: You don't have to go with the flow, but they are not going anywhere, so why whine about it.

[Its just me]

Where's my bench, I need some players:
Two of the people did not see anyone who may have been driving that vehicle. One of those people did. One of the person -- one the people saw the person believed to be driving this Chevrolet pickup, and actually spoke to this person, had verbal contact with him.

So now investigators are trying to track down this pickup, trying to track down whoever this person who may have been driving is.

GRACE: Robert, are they sure it was a Chevy? Are they absolutely positive it was a Chevy pickup?

PRESTON: It has been positively identified as a Chevy pickup. Initially, there was some confusion whether it may have been a Chevy, may have been a Ford. But for those of you that know pickups know that a Chevy and a Ford are two distinct vehicles. So...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Robert, Robert, what time of the night was this?

PRESTON: The truck was seen several times during the weekend. The most recent time or the latest time it was seen was about 6:00 in the morning on October 24th when Tara was reported missing.

GRACE: To Tara Grinstead`s sister, Anita Gattis, I`m happy we`ve got tip, I`m happy we`ve got the break, Anita. But why are we just learning this?

ANITA GATTIS, MISSING TARA GRINSTEAD`S SISTER: Well, Nancy, we had heard early on about neighbors of Tara`s who saw a dark vehicle in her yard early Monday morning when they went to the convenient store. This person was interviewed by GBI police. I don`t know what they chalked that experience up to, you know, not really sure why they didn`t pursue that any further.

We`ve also found out that a teenager who saw the car had verbal contact and some profanity was exchanged. So I can understand why he`s been a little hesitant, plus he was here visiting with a neighbor who had moved a few weeks after Tara disappeared. So we had some issues in tracking him down.

While we were tracking that kid down, we found a 23-year-old man who saw the vehicle here at another point. Now, I want to make it clear: The vehicle was not here all weekend; it evidently was coming and going and came without being noticed and drawing a lot of attention, so we`re wondering if it was a vehicle that had been here before, someone that knew Tara.

GRACE: OK, let me get this straight. The vehicle was parked -- snip

Back to her sister, Anita Gattis. Now, why would someone exchange profanity with -- I assume it was a male -- the guy driving this black Chevy parked up on her yard?

GATTIS: Well, you know, that`s a big question to us, too. This kid was playing in the side street that`s next to Tara`s house. The guy was outside the truck. He looked over at him, said some profanity to the kid, so the kid, you know, takes off back inside. That`s what we don`t know: Why this was person angry just because he was recognized?

GRACE: Well, to Richard Herman, whoever is driving a black Chevy pickup -- and maybe you`re better at it than I am -- but in the middle of the night, I don`t know if I could tell a Chevy from a Ford parked up in somebody`s yard, but apparently not one, not two, but three people have observed this vehicle.

Now, Richard, you know, I don`t want to prejudge the case. I would never do a thing like that.

HERMAN: No, not you, Nancy.

GRACE: But here`s the thing: If this person isn`t connected to her disappearance, why haven`t they come forward to say, "Oh, I`m part of the time line. I can tell you she was here, there, this, that, at this time the weekend"? So why are they shrinking back? snip

I don't rule out this possibility but what makes it less important is this chevy truck was identified before the CB show and if AG really thought this was the truck why did she do the cb show. I think it is faily clear how the show went. I don't know how AG feels now but I think she continued to have strong beliefs that the poi drove a different truck. My memory is probably the worst but there "possibly" could have been something in print also that makes me less concerned about this chevy truck.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying you are wrong only that I do not feel as strong about it as you and I addressed my reasons above. Do they prove it is not the chevy truck that is involved NO and it only my opinion. I do not rule out anything or anyone and have stated this many times. Just because a subject is being discussed does not mean that is the only thought "I" have and I think this is the case with many.

BTW Sorry I asked you questions and ran out but LOL hubby had lost a paper and he can't find anything and he is somewhat jealous of my time on the board. (To put it mildly.)

[Its just me]

Wow, not being in the group has me busy. When you say HD was at TG during the weekend, do you mean Friday through Sunday, or as I think late Sunday - early Monday?
I think HD had contact with Tara while she was at the BBQ Saturday night around 10:30 and Tara left the BBQ approx 11:00.
I think it is "possible" that HD was in Ocilla during the day on Sunday. I do not rule this in or out. I believe that HD was at Tara's early hours Monday morning 12:15 AM. A "dark" truck was spotted at Tara's parked in the yard either Sunday or Monday morning AM around 5:30 am by 2 people. I do not know for sure if it was Sunday or Monday. Do I know this was HD no but I think it is possible and I can not rule it out.

[odette]

Wow, not being in the group has me busy. When you say HD was at TG during the weekend, do you mean Friday through Sunday, or as I think late Sunday - early Monday?

Don't forget about this visit made by HD (mentioned in the below quote) to Tara's home on the Sunday as well.



snip>i would like to mention also that early on in the case ag mentioned to a local that hd went to tara's home on sunday evening. 6 or 7pm iirc. if that is the case and we assume ag's info to be accurate and popcorn's info to be accurate then that puts him at her home twice in the same day. very confusing to me.<snip

jmho

[Its just me]

Don't forget about this visit made by HD (mentioned in the below quote) to Tara's home on the Sunday as well.



jmho

Thanks odette for putting the post on the board. I knew I had a strong belief that HD was in Ocilla prior to the 12:15 am visit and it was more than my thinking.

[Its just me]

Again, I do disagree. and there is a mistake being made "to focus on one "train of thought" at a time"

'If someone does not like the climate here, then they would do well to just move on. The LHG is just that...here for the long haul. Deal with it."

Now, that is an appropriate statement...either go with the flow, or get out. Results, this is what one outside the group deals with.


Jond lets agree to disagree. This board allows different threads for different topics. If a new thread is started by anyone new of from the damn LHG it is productive. I for one am tired of the LHG being blamed for people who can not take being disagreed with. If you read really carefully and I have you will see the LHG whoever is considered one posts are no stronger language than the post that is replied. People can stick there head in the sand and allow this mess to continue if they want to and I will assure you when someone comes trying to butt my head I am going to butt right back. And if this happens I am going to take the butt but keep my tail right here and I suggest anyone interested in this case to do the same. There is bickering but to put all the blame on the LHG is not justified and don't care what anyone states it will not change my opinion. My signature has LHG in it but my main point in my signature is I will not allow anything to stop my involvement on ctv unless FW kicks me out. For now I am not going to remove my signature but I may if it hinders a true honest member that is not hunting to make a jab at the LHG.
Again please feel free to start a new thread if you want conversations to reach beyond one subject and don't say it's not possible until you try it. My intentions are not to bash you. I appreciate you but I have strong beliefs and I don't mind posting what I think. I do appreciate you bringing the chevy truck to the board though I am not as strong as you on this opinion I welcome anyone else to bring there thoughts about this to the board and who knows you just may change my mind. God Bless IJM

[Its just me]

jond, here's what I posted on another thread, FWIW, I agree with your statement.

Fine, y'all can be the LHG, but there are some of us here that have been here since the beginning who are not considered members of the LHG, and in fact get slammed by the LHG.

All I know is that just because you don't agree about how something is/was handled, doesn't mean that you slam them for all eternity, accuse them of lying, accuse them of impersonating others, etc. They have every right to be here, and voice their own opinions about the case. They don't have to have posts deleted because they disagree with any member of the LHG.

I have seen many members here who have BEEN here for the entire time (or at least following it for the entire time) grow quiet because of members of LHG.

I don't care how y'all answer, Gibberish, You're probably right, or whatever "new" you don't care about certain posters phrases that the LHG comes up with on TT, just know that there are many valuable people who would post if it weren't for some of the LHG's "scare" tactics.

JMHO

Ipwitch I think you are strong enough to butt heads with anyone on a poster board and I think it's time to move on beyond hard feelings and forget about the damn LHG. The bickering has been going on on this board for a long long time and from what I know by reading here and there on other ctv boards it goes on every where and it did not begain when the LHG was first mentioned.
I am a member at TT and it's a good board and what is posted there is none of members of CTV business. Can you name me one valuable member who is scared to post on ctv because of the just newly mentioned long haul group. There are good posters who have dropped but there have been some hum dingers that I can only that FW that they are gone. Name me one good poster that have dropped out since the LHG was mentioned. This is a mole hill made into a mountion and used as a way to jab at members not liked. AS I told Jond I have LHG as part of my signature and I like the saying LHG because the sincere intention was people willing to go through some of the mess posted here and be strong enough not to quite. I for one have been through hell and high water with my personal family brought into this and accused by Popcorn as being at the BBQ which was a lie. I'll throw something in every now and then but to ***** about it every day would only make me look like the fool I would be by doing so. Look what the admin of TT has been through and the LHG mess can not come close to that but it's not harped on every day. I could go on and on and on. There is not one saint on this board but I am tired of hearing about the LHG. It is nothing compared to searching for Tara. You brought up searching SE of Irwin County and I am interesting in anything anyone one whats to add to this subject. I also want to add people considered the LHG are not perfect and I don't always agree with them and they do not aways agree with me. I am more than willing to respect posters but it's hard when none is returned but I don't ***** about it and will continue on. No offence intended because our paths have personally crossed but I care enough to give you my opinion and that is all it is an opinion. You can treat me the same as I have you and reply and give me hell on things you think I need to improve and I will try to take them to heart and use them to better myself. Love IJM

[ipswitch]

IJM,
I'm not worried about the LHG anymore. I agree with your first sentence, I am strong enough to butt heads. I'm not going to. I want to get back to the basics and searching for Tara.

I agree, anything posted on ANY other board is none of this boards business.

I will not name names of any poster who is afraid to post here. They have a right to stay hidden until they feel strong enough to post again, but there are 3 who would be very good additions.

IJM, I know you have been thru hell and high water with all of this, with your family being drug into this, popcorn, etc. and I'm sorry that you have been thru that.

I also know what the admin of TT has been thru. As I said on another post last night, I respect the owners of TT and findtara.com. They have had their lives run thru the mud, and they have still kept running the board.

I also know the hell I've been thru, and you know some of it, but no one that posts on this board knows all of it.

IJM, you know that I admire you, and trust you.

I am all for dropping all this LHG crap, and moving on.

Hence why I was posting locations that *I* personally felt needed to be searched.

I'm not gonna give you hell on anything.

Look, we can all be jerks sometimes, and last night I was being one. I know that, but I was so fed up with crap I had to post.

In other words, many of us have been thru nightmarish days and nights, but lets just move on and call a truce, ok?

I have gotten it out of my system, and feel much better now. But I do appreciate your post this morning, and I really want you to know that. luv,ipswitch

JMHO

[Its just me]

IJM,
I'm not worried about the LHG anymore. I agree with your first sentence, I am strong enough to butt heads. I'm not going to. I want to get back to the basics and searching for Tara.

I agree, anything posted on ANY other board is none of this boards business.

I will not name names of any poster who is afraid to post here. They have a right to stay hidden until they feel strong enough to post again, but there are 3 who would be very good additions.

IJM, I know you have been thru hell and high water with all of this, with your family being drug into this, popcorn, etc. and I'm sorry that you have been thru that.

I also know what the admin of TT has been thru. As I said on another post last night, I respect the owners of TT and findtara.com. They have had their lives run thru the mud, and they have still kept running the board.

I also know the hell I've been thru, and you know some of it, but no one that posts on this board knows all of it.

IJM, you know that I admire you, and trust you.

I am all for dropping all this LHG crap, and moving on.

Hence why I was posting locations that *I* personally felt needed to be searched.

I'm not gonna give you hell on anything.

Look, we can all be jerks sometimes, and last night I was being one. I know that, but I was so fed up with crap I had to post.

In other words, many of us have been thru nightmarish days and nights, but lets just move on and call a truce, ok?

I have gotten it out of my system, and feel much better now. But I do appreciate your post this morning, and I really want you to know that. luv,ipswitch

JMHO

Thanks I think we can get back to Tara if we all try and thanks for not giving me Hell because I have been a horse's tail many times and probably the least perfect one here.
I also appreciate your apology for posting something wrong about Result because it was a strong statement.
I hope everyone will put the LHG on the back burner and let the past be the past. I know that will be hard for me to do on somethings that does not have anything to do with a post by anyone put I promise everyone that I will try. But I will not promise if someone comes butting heads with me with some off the wall mess I will not butt right back but I will not let it run me off. I hope anyone who wants to come to the board and discuss things about this case will do so but I am sick of someone's personal agenda being brought to the board. Glad you got it aired out and willing to move on and hope Results accepts your apology she has done some hard work on this case and have received a some knocks here and there. I have no doubt there will continue to be people to pop in just for their own selfish agenda and I will continue to be on alert for this kind of poster simply because of what many have been through. I also suggest if anyone gets a threat by pm to send it straight to FW. I have confidence she will handle it in the right way. If I have offended anyone this morning I am offering an opology by saying "I am very sorry I only want to get this board moving forward". IJM

[One2Snoop]

IJM you're always such a breath of fresh air - thank you for your posts. :rose:

[butterbean]

I think HD had contact with Tara while she was at the BBQ Saturday night around 10:30 and Tara left the BBQ approx 11:00.
I think it is "possible" that HD was in Ocilla during the day on Sunday. I do not rule this in or out. I believe that HD was at Tara's early hours Monday morning 12:15 AM. A "dark" truck was spotted at Tara's parked in the yard either Sunday or Monday morning AM around 5:30 am by 2 people. I do not know for sure if it was Sunday or Monday. Do I know this was HD no but I think it is possible and I can not rule it out.

If HD was there at 12:15 then why return at 5:30? He did not erase the phone messages. He did not take the "camera." He did not take her clothes or bed linens. He had previously left his business card. What do you think his reason would be for returning around 5:30?

[TallaTonight]

If HD was there at 12:15 then why return at 5:30? He did not erase the phone messages. He did not take the "camera." He did not take her clothes or bed linens. He had previously left his business card. What do you think his reason would be for returning around 5:30?

OK, I see your point, I think. If he was guilty of anything, maybe other than being unfaithful(?), why come back. Had he already left his business card? If so it was there for everyone to see, he had made numerous calls this would be easy to prove I would think. I have no strong opinions of HD either way but this all bothers me, if he had LE training he would know how to cover things much better than this. Butterbean, please elaborate more I am interested.
AMOHO

[concernedperson]

If HD was there at 12:15 then why return at 5:30? He did not erase the phone messages. He did not take the "camera." He did not take her clothes or bed linens. He had previously left his business card. What do you think his reason would be for returning around 5:30?

Logic is hard to argue with, heh? If he was doing a clean sweep wouldn't he be a little more methodical? In any event, I think he was there at 12:15 Monday AM not sure of 5:30 and not sure he left his card prior to the 12:15 time frame...that is conjecture by others and I am not convinced.

I don't think he was a great protector and I do think they had an affair. I think he was smitten and she had ill conceived concerns in part due to her environment and her activities. I think someone took her concerns and made them her reality.

All of the emotional issues are seen very frequently in murder victim cases and less so in random murders. I can cite too many where the husband, significant other, jealous female, discarded neighbor, slighted business associate etc. feel their own priorities are more importent than the victim.
The sociopathy is always justified by their actions.

Tara did not deserve to be discarded by someone. No amount of justification will remedy this. JMO.

[Brainstorm]

If HD was there at 12:15 then why return at 5:30? He did not erase the phone messages. He did not take the "camera." He did not take her clothes or bed linens. He had previously left his business card. What do you think his reason would be for returning around 5:30?

I believe he was running on adreneline (?) and very tired and over-kill,IMO
and he may have figured if there were pics on the camera of him and Tara or him,that it would look MORE suspicious of him,if the camera went missing also..
If he was there at 5:30,again, I think that would just re-enforce my suspicions of him being kind of in an un-real,un-easy mode,and his mind just taking him back there,checking,checking again....Should I take the camera?
YES,NO,Yes,but no.probably in TURMOIL..
I may be wrong about HD,but I just cant get past him,since HE LIED from the beginning
JMHO
remember,he broke down and cried,and I dont think it was for Tara....It was for himself....
JMHO

[Results]

Yesterday I took some time to lay out each and every POI and the guilt or innocent according to posters theories and speculations. I have come to this board to ask each and every one of you to think about what I have to say. I found out some information the other day that was very disturbing to me which I will share with all of you in a few minutes. I love to ride horses and think about anything and everything it is sorta like a theorapy for me. When I rode yesterday and thought of the information I had received I took a real hard look at it all and this is my thoughts:

#1. I want everyone to remember back when me and fsb were saying it would take alot for us not to be able to drive and if your honest about it you would think the same thing. This never made sense to me and I was hit pretty hard with remarks because I said it was more drama which I believe it was but I couldn't figure out why sooooooooo much drama. The truth is there was some serious competition between AG and Tara. See AG dated a man for 10 years or around 10 years and he never married AG. (I do have the man's name but I will NOT give his name since he has nothing to do with Tara's disappearance but he does provide a piece of the puzzle of the aftermath of the breakup of Tara's behavior) See AG told Tara that MH would NEVER marry her every chance she got to tell Tara that MH was just like her ex. In fact Tara was soooooo tired of hearing about it that she decided she would show AG that MH would marry her and forced MH's hand to make a decision it surely was not the decision that Tara thought it would be. Now what did Tara have to do? She had to hear AG over and over say I told you he wasn't going to marry you. She had to get MH back to show her sister, AG, that she was wrong. I don't know if AG knew how bad it hurt Tara or why she would even try to hurt Tara but something for sure AG played a huge part in Tara's emotional coaster ride. Tara pulled just about anything and everything to get MH back the sad part is was it because she loved him that much or was it because she wanted to show her sister she was wrong.

#2 - IF she was killed a motive is very hard to find and I know that people kill without motive but from all the POI that has been mentioned even HD a motive doesn't seem to fit for any of these men to lose it and say OK I'm going to kill Tara this weekend. IF she was killed it is because of something that we know nothing about or have discussed.

#3 - The body IF Tara was killed. IF HD/AG/LG wanted Marcus to take the fall for it then why hide the body why not just leave it there for a crime to be investigated and a perp brought to justice. Several things come to mind for me. The body will reveal the true perp. A gun or weapon was used that could link her murder to the perp. This one to me is the hardest one to figure out.

#4 - It maybe what fits more than anything else Tara could be alive.

Just some thoughts that I have been thinking about and maybe something will click for someone who reads it.

JMHO

[Its just me]

If HD was there at 12:15 then why return at 5:30? He did not erase the phone messages. He did not take the "camera." He did not take her clothes or bed linens. He had previously left his business card. What do you think his reason would be for returning around 5:30?

No one can say what happened because we don't know but the following will make it fit.

We know by the AV incident report that Tara did not always answer her phone. Tara could have been home on Sunday (we don't know) or she could have been gone with someone else besides HD. HD went to Tara's to see what was going on because he was there when AV called and knew Tara did not always answer her phone. HD was in Ocilla on Sunday and was at Tara's house at 12:15 am Monday early hours. Tara returns home or Tara was at home maybe with someone else and she and HD saw each other at some point. Something went wrong during the time they were together HD was there early AM Monday and dropped the glove. There was no time to take things because it was getting daylight and people moving about. If this could be true I don't think anything was planned and HD was in an emotional mess (still crying at police station on Monday) and did not think about removing things only getting rid of new finger prints. Just thoughts and a possible theory. I can't say this did happen but I can't say it did not happen and I don't think anyone one else can. IJM
BTW If HD has an alibi for Sunday night after he left Tara's this did not happen but so far we do not know of any alibi. He also could have come back on Monday am because they were in Tara's car and the car had to be returned.

[Its just me]

Yesterday I took some time to lay out each and every POI and the guilt or innocent according to posters theories and speculations. I have come to this board to ask each and every one of you to think about what I have to say. I found out some information the other day that was very disturbing to me which I will share with all of you in a few minutes. I love to ride horses and think about anything and everything it is sorta like a theorapy for me. When I rode yesterday and thought of the information I had received I took a real hard look at it all and this is my thoughts:

#1. I want everyone to remember back when me and fsb were saying it would take alot for us not to be able to drive and if your honest about it you would think the same thing. This never made sense to me and I was hit pretty hard with remarks because I said it was more drama which I believe it was but I couldn't figure out why sooooooooo much drama. The truth is there was some serious competition between AG and Tara. See AG dated a man for 10 years or around 10 years and he never married AG. (I do have the man's name but I will NOT give his name since he has nothing to do with Tara's disappearance but he does provide a piece of the puzzle of the aftermath of the breakup of Tara's behavior) See AG told Tara that MH would NEVER marry her every chance she got to tell Tara that MH was just like her ex. In fact Tara was soooooo tired of hearing about it that she decided she would show AG that MH would marry her and forced MH's hand to make a decision it surely was not the decision that Tara thought it would be. Now what did Tara have to do? She had to hear AG over and over say I told you he wasn't going to marry you. She had to get MH back to show her sister, AG, that she was wrong. I don't know if AG knew how bad it hurt Tara or why she would even try to hurt Tara but something for sure AG played a huge part in Tara's emotional coaster ride. Tara pulled just about anything and everything to get MH back the sad part is was it because she loved him that much or was it because she wanted to show her sister she was wrong.

#2 - IF she was killed a motive is very hard to find and I know that people kill without motive but from all the POI that has been mentioned even HD a motive doesn't seem to fit for any of these men to lose it and say OK I'm going to kill Tara this weekend. IF she was killed it is because of something that we know nothing about or have discussed.

#3 - The body IF Tara was killed. IF HD/AG/LG wanted Marcus to take the fall for it then why hide the body why not just leave it there for a crime to be investigated and a perp brought to justice. Several things come to mind for me. The body will reveal the true perp. A gun or weapon was used that could link her murder to the perp. This one to me is the hardest one to figure out.

#4 - It maybe what fits more than anything else Tara could be alive.

Just some thoughts that I have been thinking about and maybe something will click for someone who reads it.

JMHO

Thanks for sharing the information about AG and Tara's relationship. It fits with information I rececived from someone who dated Tara years ago. It also makes sense because my information is that Tara did everything possible to get MH back. Tara for sure was having emotional problems and people with emotional problems can do strange things and leaving very well could be one of them. My prayers this is what has happened and I also pray she has found happiness if this is the case. In your post you left out one thing and that is suicide and if this happened I think it was done by medication and she died in her own bed. (MHu stated it looked like Tara had slept some in the bed) and if this happened I think the body was removed to protect the person who possible had given Tara the drugs and it could be LG or someone else. There is so many possiblities in my mind that I have trouble sorting it all out and remembering what is what. Truthfully I am almost at the end of my rope thinking of what could have happened and trying to consider each poi that has been named and I can't even begin with the possibility of someone not named. IJM.

[Results]

Thanks for sharing the information about AG and Tara's relationship. It fits with information I rececived from someone who dated Tara years ago. It also makes sense because my information is that Tara did everything possible to get MH back. Tara for sure was having emotional problems and people with emotional problems can do strange things and leaving very well could be one of them. My prayers this is what has happened and I also pray she has found happiness if this is the case. In your post you left out one thing and that is suicide and if this happened I think it was done by medication and she died in her own bed. (MHu stated it looked like Tara had slept some in the bed) and if this happened I think the body was removed to protect the person who possible had given Tara the drugs and it could be LG or someone else. There is so many possiblities in my mind that I have trouble sorting it all out and remembering what is what. Truthfully I am almost at the end of my rope thinking of what could have happened and trying to consider each poi that has been named and I can't even begin with the possibility of someone not named. IJM.

ITA. There is big motive if Tara OD'd on drugs to hide her body. Thank you for adding that. Your post brings alot of thoughts of why hide the body. Once again thank you for an excellent post. JMHO

[Brainstorm]

ITA. There is big motive if Tara OD'd on drugs to hide her body. Thank you for adding that. Your post brings alot of thoughts of why hide the body. Once again thank you for an excellent post. JMHO

ITA-back when this was mentioned before,about the possible LG/drugs connection,it made sense,that if she,Tara,was threatening suicide,to HD,and followed thru,with drugs from LG,then I can see AG jumping on MH so strongly
right off the bat.. to divert attention from themselves,all 3 of them...
why hide the body? if they /he had left her there, her body might have had HD's DNA on it,her house had his DNA in it and since it was known they were having an affair,the only thing to cover their asses,would be to hide the body and blame it on Marcus.Am I getting ya'll confused.. My Monday morning brain is sluggish,but I understand what I'm trying to say, LOL
AG would have went along with this,She hated Tara, IMO,and if Tara commited suicide with drugs from LG,then no way was Tara going to ruin AG's good life........by ruining LG's career and THEIR GOOD NAME & REPUTATION

This makes sense to me,for sure,for sure.....
JMHO

[Brainstorm]

Now, we HAVE to find Taras body.Somehow,we just HAVE TO

[Brainstorm]

This would also explain why there were NO medicine bottles,at all,found in the house.Now that is strange...NONE?????
oh my, HD may not have killed her,she may have committed suicide and HD thought oh well,since she did, he'd get away with his wrong-doing,since she was dead,but he'd have to get rid of the body.....
JMHO and could be completely WRONG......

[Brainstorm]

also would explain his extreme behavior,IMO,trips,calls,crying,all his actions,and of course lying !!!!!!
JMHO

[justthinking]

Hi guys. it's been a while. I am just stopping by to catch up on the latest news and/or findings.

The last post (and prior ones to it) seems plausible. My thinking keeps going back to this: Regardless of who committed this terrible act, or even Tara herself, disposing of a body is a very hard thing to do. Most people would not travel a large distance, with a body in the car, for fear of being stopped and charged. As with the case of the small child in south Georgia this weekend, he was dumped within 2 miles of his home. The disposal would have to have taken place during the dark hours, and in a short period of time, the body would begin to stiffen. Anyone who has ever toted a sleeping child to bed knows dead weight is somewhat cumbersome. Add additional size to that.

In keeping with the theories already discussed, either the crime was well thought out and a disposal site as chosen ahead of time, or the site is a distance from Ocilla and on private, gated property. Does anyone know if the gator-filled pond behind LG's house has been searched? ****s farm?

[Its just me]

Hi guys. it's been a while. I am just stopping by to catch up on the latest news and/or findings.

The last post (and prior ones to it) seems plausible. My thinking keeps going back to this: Regardless of who committed this terrible act, or even Tara herself, disposing of a body is a very hard thing to do. Most people would not travel a large distance, with a body in the car, for fear of being stopped and charged. As with the case of the small child in south Georgia this weekend, he was dumped within 2 miles of his home. The disposal would have to have taken place during the dark hours, and in a short period of time, the body would begin to stiffen. Anyone who has ever toted a sleeping child to bed knows dead weight is somewhat cumbersome. Add additional size to that.

In keeping with the theories already discussed, either the crime was well thought out and a disposal site as chosen ahead of time, or the site is a distance from Ocilla and on private, gated property. Does anyone know if the gator-filled pond behind LG's house has been searched? ****s farm?

Not to my knowledge justthinking. Irwin county was searched as good as possible but I stand firm that every inch was not searched. Impossible. There was an area or areas serched close to Fitzgerald. I think. But as always I sure can be wrong. IJM

I also want to remind every one what I post is only an opinion of possibilities.

[groucho]

I keep thinking about the reason Anita and Larry didn't get to Ocilla till Monday afternoon since he was supposedly on a run and she had to wait till he got back? That is a long "run" in my opinion. What if LG, AG, and HD knew she had od'ed and took her somewheres during the night and she had to wait for him to finish what he was doing but that doesn't explain how HD beat everybody else to the OPD that morning.

[Its just me]

I think Results posts opened the door for discussions on any poi names or unnamed. I encourage anyone who have an opinion or theory to post it and lets discuss it...we may end right back where we started from but who knows one word could be a key peice of this puzzle. I will try to keep my big mouth shut with smart remarks and I am also "begging" that no one comes with off the wall mess that has nothing to do with this case. I am very humbly asking and willing to beg on Tara's behalf and that's the best I know how to do this.
IJM

[Its just me]

I keep thinking about the reason Anita and Larry didn't get to Ocilla till Monday afternoon since he was supposedly on a run and she had to wait till he got back? That is a long "run" in my opinion. What if LG, AG, and HD knew she had od'ed and took her somewheres during the night and she had to wait for him to finish what he was doing but that doesn't explain how HD beat everybody else to the OPD that morning.

There are loop-holes in almost every theory groucho and that is because we know so little.
I strongest evidence we have is the phone call from HD on Sat. night. What was said is very important but we don't know and will never know. But for some reason HD called Tara the next day many times and was at her house Sunday/Monday 12:15 am. A dark truck was seen at Tara's early daylight 5:30 am and according to AG news article this was Monday am. (I'm just 100% sure if this was Sunday or Monday) If HD is involved there is no doubt that he has lied when he was intervied and if he is not involved I hope he has told everything he did that week-end and I hope his alibi if he has one was checked beyond his word. And that we do not know for some reason. The GBI reads these boards and they know what hell HD has been put through. HD is friends with the GBI and I would see not problem with the GBI clearing him if he is not involved but by them not clearing him I think it is possible that he is involved or has valuable information that could lead to someone else. And by not clearing anyone if there is a perp the perp just might slip up somewhere. JMHOO

[Its just me]

I would love to know what the conversation HD and FG had at 12:15 am was about and if there were other calls between them before this call. If they were close friends it has not been a long long time close family friendship. The guy that Tara dated stated HD was not a close family friend at the time they dated and yes he knows HD.

[groucho]

I would love to know what the conversation HD and FG had at 12:15 am was about and if there were other calls between them before this call. If they were close friends it has not been a long long time close family friendship. The guy that Tara dated stated HD was not a close family friend at the time they dated and yes he knows HD. So if that is the case AG lied about that too. Or atleast she was talking about her & HD being close friends, maybe. I think and this is my opinion, HD was madly in love with Tara and she wanted the white picket fence and she made an ultimatum to him like she did MH and HD wouldn't think of leaving his wife and kids and ruin what he had built up. So she took off for a few days to cool off and HD actually hung around Ocilla waiting for her to come back but by time Monday rolled around and all the media took hold of this she couldn't come back. Her life has been splattered all over the place and she can't face the embarrassment so she stayed where she is at. How do we know she didn't have other accounts that she could be using. Just because they know of certain ones, can they possibly find all of her accounts? Like I said this is only what is going thru my mind this morning.

[Atok]

Snipped for space The GBI reads these boards and they know what hell HD has been put through. HD is friends with the GBI and I would see not problem with the GBI clearing him if he is not involved but by them not clearing him I think he is involved or has valuable information that could lead to someone else. JMHOO

This is what I am starting to lean to ... again. I've been here before when I didn't have HD as the perp, but as an assistant/accessory. I can't quite get him to "completely uninvolved." Since LE stated that "NO ONE HAS BEEN CLEARED." and they know HD's alibi, then I'd have to say there is no way to clear HD yet in their minds either, but also no way to convict, a tough burden of proof involved. If he is seen as even an accessory, he might not even be chargable without catching the bigger fish and no way to warrant a change in his professional duties, it's all very delicate. If HD is involved as some accessory though who has to be the bigger fish?

But let's go with the medical suicide speculation, just leaving the body where it was would have been best. Toxicology may have turned up that she OD'd on X,Y, and Z and she had quantities she shouldn't have or scripts she shouldn't have or they were samples... but I don't see the prescribing physician in as much hot water as others are thinking. Ultimately a patient is responsible for what they do to their bodies, right? Certainly easier to get around as an outcome than a missing body and murder intrigue!

I suppose if the Medical Doctor panicked (and he'd have to friends with HD...which leaves blaming LG again and blaming AG again...) which I can't quite gather my head around EITHER! becuase that makes a conspiracy and goodness that's a mess and is far more fragile than a single perp to keep covered up... so I keep saying it's too preposterous to keep on with the layers of involvement.

I am reminded that "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

In this case though it doesn't really work, we're still left with a bajillion possibles that can't be cleared away. This is just open rambling MOO and not meant to casue any derailment or agitiation...

[dixinites]

SNIP>
...or they were samples... but I don't see the prescribing physician in as much hot water as others are thinking. Ultimately a patient is responsible for what they do to their bodies, right? Certainly easier to get around as an outcome than a missing body and murder intrigue! ...

There is of course the possibility that Tara took an accidental overdose...
there is also the possibility that she took a lethal combination of drugs, and in that case, the "physician" would be in ALOT of hot water, particularly if the "physician" had a history of problems related to prescriptions on more than one occasion.

I think the "samples" angle might be one reason LG was so interested in going thru Tara's trashcan "piece by piece" as stated by AG. If someone did a "sweep" of all the meds in the house, there might be a possibility of discarded "blister packs" being overlooked.

We all know what great lengths HD went thru to try to keep his presence unknown during the AV incident. If he came in and found Tara dead, maybe he panicked and called LG first, instead of LE.

I've always thought the conspiricy theory too much of a stretch, but I, too,
have been thinking about the possibility that the HD scenario actually started on Sunday. I was wondering why her purse would be missing, but not her shoes. Maybe her purse was used to "pack up" all her meds, and she didn't need shoes if she were in bed and carried out. JMO.

[TallaTonight]

There is of course the possibility that Tara took an accidental overdose...
there is also the possibility that she took a lethal combination of drugs, and in that case, the "physician" would be in ALOT of hot water, particularly if the "physician" had a history of problems related to prescriptions on more than one occasion.

I think the "samples" angle might be one reason LG was so interested in going thru Tara's trashcan "piece by piece" as stated by AG. If someone did a "sweep" of all the meds in the house, there might be a possibility of discarded "blister packs" being overlooked.

We all know what great lengths HD went thru to try to keep his presence unknown during the AV incident. If he came in and found Tara dead, maybe he panicked and called LG first, instead of LE.

I've always thought the conspiricy theory too much of a stretch, but I, too,
have been thinking about the possibility that the HD scenario actually started on Sunday. I was wondering why her purse would be missing, but not her shoes. Maybe her purse was used to "pack up" all her meds, and she didn't need shoes if she were in bed and carried out. JMO.

If she had overdosed or been overdosed on her bed, would there not be stains or fluids on her bed? If the bed linens were not taken could it not be evident from the bed that she had died there? I have seen beds in which patients died and it was evident a death had taken place there. Just asking IMOHO

[concernedperson]

If she had overdosed or been overdosed on her bed, would there not be stains or fluids on her bed? If the bed linens were not taken could it not be evident from the bed that she had died there? I have seen beds in which patients died and it was evident a death had taken place there. Just asking IMOHO

At death, the sphincter muscle relaxes and if there is urine and/or feces the body will release the waste. I have seen the same thing and it was apparent that an amount distinguishable by sight that the bed was soiled.Any investigator would notice the same thing as well as the neighbors/co-workers that were in her home. So, IMO, I don't believe Tara met her death in the bed.

[dixinites]

Maybe she collapsed elsewhere in her home...

Just another thought...maybe HD spent Sunday "scouting" a location for a disposal site, but Tara wasn't actually moved until after dark Sunday PM.

[TallaTonight]

At death, the sphincter muscle relaxes and if there is urine and/or feces the body will release the waste. I have seen the same thing and it was apparent that an amount distinguishable by sight that the bed was soiled.Any investigator would notice the same thing as well as the neighbors/co-workers that were in her home. So, IMO, I don't believe Tara met her death in the bed.

Exactly and with drugs there is usually vomit or foul spit up, there is also a slight odor that is ommitted almost at the time of death. IMOO and from experience.

[TallaTonight]

Maybe she collapsed elsewhere in her home...

Just another thought...maybe HD spent Sunday "scouting" a location for a disposal site, but Tara wasn't actually moved until after dark Sunday PM.

If she was left and moved later there would be evidence of a body IMO. The body starts to deteroiate immediately, the odor is not as bad but if left for a day or more it would smell and remember the cat, sad to say cats would bother the body. And then you would have blood to content with. According to what we have been given more was found. The cat would have tracked blood over the house. Note: cats tend to bite their owners if they are left there dead, I guess they love them and are trying to get them up.
AMOHO

[dixinites]

Well, IMO, if Tara died early AM and was moved after dark the same day, (since this was October, dark comes pretty early), I still think this is a possibility. Granted, I know nothing of bodies from first hand experience...

It may even be possible that she was found comatose and didn't die til later in the day...all the more reason to call her "physician". JMO.

[hypnotized]

Well, IMO, if Tara died early AM and was moved after dark the same day, (since this was October, dark comes pretty early), I still think this is a possibility. Granted, I know nothing of bodies from first hand experience...

It may even be possible that she was found comatose and didn't die til later in the day...all the more reason to call her "physician". JMO.

I remember discussion of SAR dog activity at her home. And the dogs followed her scent to the end of the driveway. Now maybe they just used dogs for a "live" search, and not cadaver dogs, because I don't recall a distinction on which type of dogs were used. But, if there was any type of question along these lines, wouldn't LE have included cadaver dogs in the home?

[dixinites]

I remember discussion of SAR dog activity at her home. And the dogs followed her scent to the end of the driveway. Now maybe they just used dogs for a "live" search, and not cadaver dogs, because I don't recall a distinction on which type of dogs were used. But, if there was any type of question along these lines, wouldn't LE have included cadaver dogs in the home?

I never heard what kind of dogs were used either. I always their tracking her scent to the end of the driveway would indicate "live search" and that they could have picked up her scent there from her checking her mail. JMO.

I wonder if they ever did use cadaver dogs at her home...

[concernedperson]

I never heard what kind of dogs were used either. I always their tracking her scent to the end of the driveway would indicate "live search" and that they could have picked up her scent there from her checking her mail. JMO.

I wonder if they ever did use cadaver dogs at her home...

I believe they were using tracking/scent dogs. It could be the last/freshest scent was picking up her mail at the end of the driveway or she got into a vehicle at the end of her driveway. Again most of what I learned about dogs was from following the Laci Peterson murder so I am not as clear as I wish.

Again, referring to the Laci Peterson case, it was shown in court that Laci more than likely died in her home but the dogs picked up her scent vs. a cadaver scent. I seem to remember that it takes several hours after death for cadaver dogs to pick up scent and it doesn't distinguish from any cadaver just the smell of decomposition.

[One2Snoop]

This was posted by "volunteer" under "Dogs and Psychics" - it looks as tho sh/he is no longer a member - but does anyone remember if this was true?

I wanted to start a discussion about the dogs involved in this investigation. When I went to Tara's home, they told me that even bloodhounds could get absolutely NO SCENT in her yard of her. Even if people had been in, bloodhounds can pick up a scent after the scene is disturbed.

I also took my dog with me to search. He is not trained to scent find. He is trained to dig where I point and to search through pipes, piles of brush, sniff under houses, etc. He alerts me if there is anything unusual or that bothers him. We went all over that neighborhood and he never even flinched.

There were dogs there from all over--scent dogs, cadaver dogs, SAR dogs. Highly trained and they found NOTHING.

Isn't this all bizarre?

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=255784


bumping my post about the dogs

[One2Snoop]

First of all let me state I do not have any confidence in dogs. I've seen them fail too many times. However, in response to this post, the scent in Tara's driveway was by a scent dog ... looking specifically for Tara. I've always wondered who "scented" the dogs and what they used. Wouldn't it be ironic to find someone had used a newly purchased article of clothing that Tara had never wore?

The alleged hits at the burned house and pond were by cadaver dogs, which could only find dead bodies and would have no way of distinguishing one person from another.

(That's not to say I think there are dead bodies all over Irwin County.)

bumping....

[Seems2me]

I never heard what kind of dogs were used either. I always their tracking her scent to the end of the driveway would indicate "live search" and that they could have picked up her scent there from her checking her mail. JMO.

I wonder if they ever did use cadaver dogs at her home...

Cadaver dogs were used inside of Tara's house. The dogs did not alert.

[readmylips]

Cadaver dogs were used inside of Tara's house. The dogs did not alert.

when did that happen and what dogs were used?

[readmylips]

I believe they were using tracking/scent dogs. It could be the last/freshest scent was picking up her mail at the end of the driveway or she got into a vehicle at the end of her driveway. Again most of what I learned about dogs was from following the Laci Peterson murder so I am not as clear as I wish.

Again, referring to the Laci Peterson case, it was shown in court that Laci more than likely died in her home but the dogs picked up her scent vs. a cadaver scent. I seem to remember that it takes several hours after death for cadaver dogs to pick up scent and it doesn't distinguish from any cadaver just the smell of decomposition.

a dog handler told me that a body begins to provide cadaver scent within minutes after death. i think it depends on the quality of the dog too. this particular dog handler had what i considered to be a very efficient dog. i saw this dog in action and it was quite amazing. i have also learned that the whole subject of dogs and their abilities differ depending on who is speaking about it too.

[Its just me]

If she had overdosed or been overdosed on her bed, would there not be stains or fluids on her bed? If the bed linens were not taken could it not be evident from the bed that she had died there? I have seen beds in which patients died and it was evident a death had taken place there. Just asking IMOHO


I was with my dad, my grandmother and my mother-in-law when each passed away and there were no signs on the linens when their body was moved from the bed. My brother has 400 cc of cloudy urine in his bladder at his time of death according to the autopsy report so his urine was not released. I think death can be all different by what you witnessed on the linens and what I saw. I have done a lot of studing on death and the time of death and I believe things that happen to a body after death can vary from minutes to hours as far as rigor mortise and other things that take place after one dies.

[Its just me]

There is of course the possibility that Tara took an accidental overdose...
there is also the possibility that she took a lethal combination of drugs, and in that case, the "physician" would be in ALOT of hot water, particularly if the "physician" had a history of problems related to prescriptions on more than one occasion.

I think the "samples" angle might be one reason LG was so interested in going thru Tara's trashcan "piece by piece" as stated by AG. If someone did a "sweep" of all the meds in the house, there might be a possibility of discarded "blister packs" being overlooked.

We all know what great lengths HD went thru to try to keep his presence unknown during the AV incident. If he came in and found Tara dead, maybe he panicked and called LG first, instead of LE.

I've always thought the conspiricy theory too much of a stretch, but I, too,
have been thinking about the possibility that the HD scenario actually started on Sunday. I was wondering why her purse would be missing, but not her shoes. Maybe her purse was used to "pack up" all her meds, and she didn't need shoes if she were in bed and carried out. JMO.


I am just catching up and this may have already been posted. Someone who went inside Tara’s house told me that the shoes Tara normally wore (MHu mentioned these shoes in her interview) were not gone but at Tara's. But this does not mean she had to have worn these shoes and she probably had many pair and I doubt anyone would be able to tell if a pair was missing.
This does indicate to me that Tara did not just hurriedly leave the house if she left alive but dressed enough not to wear her most worn shoes.

[TallaTonight]

I was with my dad, my grandmother and my mother-in-law when each passed away and there were no signs on the linens when their body was moved from the bed. My brother has 400 cc of cloudy urine in his bladder at his time of death according to the autopsy report so his urine was not released. I think death can be all different by what you witnessed on the linens and what I saw. I have done a lot of studing on death and the time of death and I believe things that happen to a body after death can vary from minutes to hours as far as rigor mortise and other things that take place after one dies.

ItsJustMe, Different deaths and stages of illness result in different types of stains. It sounds like maybe your family listed other than your brother were elderly. The elderly have different amounts of fluids in their bodies due to age, illness, and dehydration.
Let me post this to you it might help to understand Rigor mortis

The muscles of the body stiffen after death because of the chemical changes that take place within the muscle's tissue. Immediately after death, the body is limp and relaxed. A relaxing of the sphincters lead to incontinence. With the onset of rigor mortis the body becomes exceptionally stiff. The stiffening process begins at the neck and lower jaw and spreads downward. All the muscles voluntarily and involuntarily, including the heart muscles, contract.

Time Required--Rigor mortis may begin to set in 15 minutes after death or 15 hours after. On average, it commences in about 5-6 hours; after which the upper part of the body is affected within 12 hours and the whole body within about 18 hours.

I have seen eldery family member and patients pass with little fluid stain, but I have had the misfortune of seeing others like the above mentioned. It seems younger victims or victims that had unexpected sudden deaths this occurs in.

All I can say in regard to your brother is Bless your Heart and I hope you really know I mean this. None of us should have to have horrors like this to visit our families. I have meant every word I have said to you about how sorry I am you have had to endure this.

[One2Snoop]

a dog handler told me that a body begins to provide cadaver scent within minutes after death. i think it depends on the quality of the dog too. this particular dog handler had what i considered to be a very efficient dog. i saw this dog in action and it was quite amazing. i have also learned that the whole subject of dogs and their abilities differ depending on who is speaking about it too.

I completely agree with you on this, particularly your last sentence.

[fsbiii]

For the record, this is getting slightly disgusting. "The Men in this Case" has went way beyond its title, sure enough. JMOO.

ItsJustMe, Different deaths and stages of illness result in different types of stains. It sounds like maybe your family listed other than your brother were elderly. The elderly have different amounts of fluids in their bodies due to age, illness, and dehydration.
Let me post this to you it might help to understand Rigor mortis

The muscles of the body stiffen after death because of the chemical changes that take place within the muscle's tissue. Immediately after death, the body is limp and relaxed. A relaxing of the sphincters lead to incontinence. With the onset of rigor mortis the body becomes exceptionally stiff. The stiffening process begins at the neck and lower jaw and spreads downward. All the muscles voluntarily and involuntarily, including the heart muscles, contract.

Time Required--Rigor mortis may begin to set in 15 minutes after death or 15 hours after. On average, it commences in about 5-6 hours; after which the upper part of the body is affected within 12 hours and the whole body within about 18 hours.

I have seen eldery family member and patients pass with little fluid stain, but I have had the misfortune of seeing others like the above mentioned. It seems younger victims or victims that had unexpected sudden deaths this occurs in.

All I can say in regard to your brother is Bless your Heart and I hope you really know I mean this. None of us should have to have horrors like this to visit our families. I have meant every word I have said to you about how sorry I am you have had to endure this.

[readmylips]

Imo, the information being discussed is in a mature manner, which makes it acceptable. We do not tailor the discussion to suit the weak stomach of others. The topic is the men in the case, but as you know, sometimes the topic goes a little astray for necessary reasons and then guides itself back to the main topic. I guess what I'm trying to say is there are sub-topics in each MAIN topic, but generally it goes back on track.

Regarding the cadaver dogs being taken to Tara's home:
I recall reading that AG said the dogs WERE takent to Tara's home and they "showed interest" in the floor (floorboards?) in her bedroom. Does anyone else recall this? If not, I'll try to locate the info and post it here for further exploration since we are on the topic. If someone else locates the info on the dogs that "showed an interest," please post.

The post above which explained how deceased human body begins to emit a scent within minutes was very interesting if indeed the cadaver or "scent" dogs did show an interest.

ag said that was done when they moved tara's things out of the home. a year after she disappeared or nearly a year iirc. i don't put much weight into anything a dog may have smelled or showed interest in at that point.

i will be interested to see if seems2me has a response to the questions posed regarding when the cadaver dogs were taken into tara's home and what dog team was used. i am not holding my breath for that info though. i suspect it was the moving out date that s2m is referencing but i could be wrong. i am probably right though.

[Its just me]

I think the discussions are doing great but I have quickly glanced one person make two what I think is unnecessary remarks toward a poster. Please try to keep your posts respectable toward posters. No I am not FW but I was hired by her to keep this bunch straight.. Just kidding Just kidding No truth to that at all.

[readmylips]

Yes, that's exactly how I remember it too.. point is that the dogs showed interest.

RML, you never got back to me on whether or not you knew if the info I inquired directly with you about was true or false. You told me you would clarify, but you haven't yet, so I have to wonder if you intend to address them at all. guess not.

i did get back to you. guess you missed it. it's there. read back. and there was no clarification to it. i gave you some info, you asked for more. i never offered to clarify anything. check back and you will see my response to you.

on the subject at hand, my point is that the dogs showing interest a year out is immaterial if even true in my opinion.

[fsbiii]

I thought you had disappeared, kath! Good to see you back posting!

I'm sorry if talk of sphincters and colored body fluids just seemed a little too off topic for me, but do carry on.

Supper's just about to be ready here at my house, so I'll check back post 9pm for details.

Sorry for the interruption.

:hat:

[Its just me]

ItsJustMe, Different deaths and stages of illness result in different types of stains. It sounds like maybe your family listed other than your brother were elderly. The elderly have different amounts of fluids in their bodies due to age, illness, and dehydration.
Let me post this to you it might help to understand Rigor mortis

The muscles of the body stiffen after death because of the chemical changes that take place within the muscle's tissue. Immediately after death, the body is limp and relaxed. A relaxing of the sphincters lead to incontinence. With the onset of rigor mortis the body becomes exceptionally stiff. The stiffening process begins at the neck and lower jaw and spreads downward. All the muscles voluntarily and involuntarily, including the heart muscles, contract.

Time Required--Rigor mortis may begin to set in 15 minutes after death or 15 hours after. On average, it commences in about 5-6 hours; after which the upper part of the body is affected within 12 hours and the whole body within about 18 hours.

I have seen eldery family member and patients pass with little fluid stain, but I have had the misfortune of seeing others like the above mentioned. It seems younger victims or victims that had unexpected sudden deaths this occurs in.

All I can say in regard to your brother is Bless your Heart and I hope you really know I mean this. None of us should have to have horrors like this to visit our families. I have meant every word I have said to you about how sorry I am you have had to endure this.

My family members were elderly and no doubt they were dehydrated. Everything you posted is exactly as I learned it during my continual study and have gone deeper actually. My point was that by brother still had 400 cc of urine in his bladder which is no small amount so this elimation does not happen in every case. He was a middle aged healthy person. I appreciate your kind words.
Sorry fsb I will let this be my last post on this subject because I do have much respect for you. :)

[TallaTonight]

So if that is the case AG lied about that too. Or atleast she was talking about her & HD being close friends, maybe. I think and this is my opinion, HD was madly in love with Tara and she wanted the white picket fence and she made an ultimatum to him like she did MH and HD wouldn't think of leaving his wife and kids and ruin what he had built up. So she took off for a few days to cool off and HD actually hung around Ocilla waiting for her to come back but by time Monday rolled around and all the media took hold of this she couldn't come back. Her life has been splattered all over the place and she can't face the embarrassment so she stayed where she is at. How do we know she didn't have other accounts that she could be using. Just because they know of certain ones, can they possibly find all of her accounts? Like I said this is only what is going thru my mind this morning.



Good post, would Tara have made the type money in Ocilla it would take to have 'other accounts'? I can't see teaching, pageant consulting, giving gifts to students that could not afford dresses etc, extended schooling, car payments, rent, clothes, expensive shoes and the other things Tara seemed to love being consistent with 'other accounts'. But you might know of monies I would not know about. The problem I have had with a 'sugar daddy' is that by this time someone would know something, usually 'sugar daddies' have 'salty mamas' that would be up in arms by now. Please if you have any thoughts I would love to hear them, only a tiny puzzle piece missing and it would be so good for Tara to be returned.

[One2Snoop]

Good post, would Tara have made the type money in Ocilla it would take to have 'other accounts'? I can't see teaching, pageant consulting, giving gifts to students that could not afford dresses etc, extended schooling, car payments, rent, clothes, expensive shoes and the other things Tara seemed to love being consistent with 'other accounts'. But you might know of monies I would not know about. The problem I have had with a 'sugar daddy' is that by this time someone would know something, usually 'sugar daddies' have 'salty mamas' that would be up in arms by now. Please if you have any thoughts I would love to hear them, only a tiny puzzle piece missing and it would be so good for Tara to be returned.

FWIW you can view Tara's salary at the following link (page 5)- I highly doubt she socked away money in secret accounts considering the fact that she liked expensive shoes and whatnot.

https://www.audits.state.ga.us/internet/ead/eadrpts/LEAs/salary_travel/ead-04_Irwin_County_BOE.pdf

[TallaTonight]

FWIW you can view Tara's salary at the following link (page 5)- I highly doubt she socked away money in secret accounts considering the fact that she liked expensive shoes and whatnot.

https://www.audits.state.ga.us/internet/ead/eadrpts/LEAs/salary_travel/ead-04_Irwin_County_BOE.pdf

Nope no secret 'accounts' she must have scraped edges to do all she did. Again thank you.

[Results]

The moving of the body is what bothers me if she was killed. A person that wouldn't fear of being stopped or caught with a body in their car would to me mean someone in an official vehicle. They would know they would not be stopped and that means they had no fear of anyone searching the car. The other theory is she was killed where she was taken to but that would mean more malice then anthing. For this to happen that would mean that Tara had that fear of knowing what was going to happen how horrible that would of been. JMHO

IF she is alive and left on her own then I think she will come home sometime...when I don't know because I don't know why she left.

IF Tara was killed I don't think her body is in Irwin County because I don't think the perp knew enough about Irwin County to hide her body. The perp IMO would have went to a comfortable area where he knew they wouldn't be looking and he knew the area very well.

JMHO

[dixinites]

When did AG make any statements regarding "move out day" or bringing in dogs during that time? I must have missed that...

[fsbiii]

I found this old exchange in a post discussing the Catherine Crier episode where Anita talked about the topic:

"AG says they brought cadaver dogs in to search the entire house, and that the dogs "showed interest" in Tara's bedroom, and that they "showed interest" when they went around her bedroom furniture once it had been packed up in the moving van.

CC asks "What does that mean, that the dogs showed interest?"

AG says that the dogs did not alert but that the handlers used those specific words, "the dogs showed interest"

CC asks does AG think that means anything?

AG says she doesn't know, the house is an older house, it's possible that something in the slats in the floorboard caught their attention."

When did AG make any statements regarding "move out day" or bringing in dogs during that time? I must have missed that...

[dixinites]

Thnx, FSB...When was this interview?

[fsbiii]

Mid-August, 2006

Thnx, FSB...When was this interview?

[fsbiii]

8-11-06 post made by kelloggirl on CTV:

A quick recap of the Catherine Crier Live show - interview with Anita Gattis (via phone) and Dr. Godwin (on video).

First up: Anita
Catherine asked if there were any new clues, new suspects. Anita says something about there being 2 main suspects (I may not have caught this exactly, she may not have used the word "suspect")
AG says that the former student took a GBI-issued polygraph and passed
AG says that ex-boyfriend did not take GBI issued lie-detector test
CC asks, "But the ex-boyfriend has made himself available to both LE and the media, doing interviews..."
AG says to her knowledge, the ex has only done 2 interviews
Some questions about the clues at the house
AG says they went back to the house to do a search recently because the house was going to be rented out
AG says they brought cadaver dogs in to search the entire house, and that the dogs "showed interest" in Tara's bedroom, and that they "showed interest" when they went around her bedroom furniture once it had been packed up in the moving van
CC asks "What does that mean, that the dogs showed interest?"
AG says that the dogs did not alert but that the handlers used those specific words, "the dogs showed interest"
CC asks does AG think that means anything?
AG says she doesn't know, the house is an older house, it's possible that something in the slats in the floorboard caught their attention
CC asked to what extent did cops tear up TG house on the initial searches
AG says they did the following:
- Fingerprints everywhere
- Removed some items, bed coverings or linens
- Luminoled house extensively, AG says "HEAVILY" - didn't find anything

Dr. Godwin portion of interview:
CC recaps clues - the old clues - the "lamp leaning against wall, the clock that is 6 hours off, the car that has the seat moved back"
- Dr. G says that GBI is hot on case, that this is in GBI's NUMBER ONE CASE! (Ed. Note: Oh, really? That is kind of surprising.)
- Dr. G says GBI has suspect in mind, but DNA doesn't match anyone's
- CC asks where that DNA was taken from? Latex glove? Dr. G says he can't reveal what the source of that DNA was.
- CC asks about her keys missing, her purse was missing, and the driver's seat being pushed back to accommodate taller person than TG - what can you draw from this?
- Dr. G says that the neighbor may have contributed to the adjustment, can't really say that that was a clue, could be irrelevant
- Dr. G says her room was not really searched in the first passthrough by LE, for example, Tara's rug beside the bed was clearly never lifted because it was still taped down to the floor, there was a box of photos under her bed that was obviously never searched or moved when GBI went through stuff, because it still had a thick layer of dust on it.
- CC says hope they gather all this stuff up and stay on the case, and it gets solved.

This was just from the quick notes I made while watching, so feel free to correct anything I misinterpreted or missed. I still have it on my DVR as well if someone has more specific questions.

[groucho]

8-11-06 post made by kelloggirl on CTV:

A quick recap of the Catherine Crier Live show - interview with Anita Gattis (via phone) and Dr. Godwin (on video).

First up: Anita
Catherine asked if there were any new clues, new suspects. Anita says something about there being 2 main suspects (I may not have caught this exactly, she may not have used the word "suspect")
AG says that the former student took a GBI-issued polygraph and passed
AG says that ex-boyfriend did not take GBI issued lie-detector test
CC asks, "But the ex-boyfriend has made himself available to both LE and the media, doing interviews..."
AG says to her knowledge, the ex has only done 2 interviews
Some questions about the clues at the house
AG says they went back to the house to do a search recently because the house was going to be rented out
AG says they brought cadaver dogs in to search the entire house, and that the dogs "showed interest" in Tara's bedroom, and that they "showed interest" when they went around her bedroom furniture once it had been packed up in the moving van
CC asks "What does that mean, that the dogs showed interest?"
AG says that the dogs did not alert but that the handlers used those specific words, "the dogs showed interest"
CC asks does AG think that means anything?
AG says she doesn't know, the house is an older house, it's possible that something in the slats in the floorboard caught their attention
CC asked to what extent did cops tear up TG house on the initial searches
AG says they did the following:
- Fingerprints everywhere
- Removed some items, bed coverings or linens- Luminoled house extensively, AG says "HEAVILY" - didn't find anything

Dr. Godwin portion of interview:
CC recaps clues - the old clues - the "lamp leaning against wall, the clock that is 6 hours off, the car that has the seat moved back"
- Dr. G says that GBI is hot on case, that this is in GBI's NUMBER ONE CASE! (Ed. Note: Oh, really? That is kind of surprising.)
- Dr. G says GBI has suspect in mind, but DNA doesn't match anyone's
- CC asks where that DNA was taken from? Latex glove? Dr. G says he can't reveal what the source of that DNA was.
- CC asks about her keys missing, her purse was missing, and the driver's seat being pushed back to accommodate taller person than TG - what can you draw from this?
- Dr. G says that the neighbor may have contributed to the adjustment, can't really say that that was a clue, could be irrelevant
- Dr. G says her room was not really searched in the first passthrough by LE, for example, Tara's rug beside the bed was clearly never lifted because it was still taped down to the floor, there was a box of photos under her bed that was obviously never searched or moved when GBI went through stuff, because it still had a thick layer of dust on it.
- CC says hope they gather all this stuff up and stay on the case, and it gets solved.

This was just from the quick notes I made while watching, so feel free to correct anything I misinterpreted or missed. I still have it on my DVR as well if someone has more specific questions. Thanks fsbiii, Things I highlighted don't make sense. Some of this stuff was not done to my knowledge. Could be wrong.

[Fun4You]

Two things I like to highlight here:

1. The linnens were taken: I thought I read over here many times there was NOTHING taken from the bed, no sheets and no linnens????

2. The box of pictures under the bed: it must have been there a long time because it had a thick layer of dust on it: I thought Tara was a very neat and peticulous person who kept everything shiny clean??? Does this mean we ought to believe Tara never cleaned her bedroom or went mopping under her bed??

Pfff such a frustrating case and besides the theories and POI we know, there still isn't a lot to go on after all this time, it's sad...

[groucho]

I know AG's "suspect" was MH but who is the 2nd one she mentions? I don't know but I think AG was alluding to the dust as in fingerprint dust that they had used. But unless they used a whole lot of that dust I can't see it being as thick as she describes being under a bed. I know it has been discussed over and over but how can a dog "show interest" and at the same time not alert?

[fsbiii]

I believe her flavor of suspect was the MH/SF combo. JMOO.

[groucho]

I believe her flavor of suspect was the MH/SF combo. JMOO. Aww... Ok I forgot about that one. Thanks fsbiii

[TuscanDreams]

One of my clients is pending charges for murder in the death of a young mom. The circumstances surrounding this death brought this case to mind. Here's why-

My client wasn't even a suspect. The DNA was a hit, my client is toast. Obviously, I'm not able to go into details about my client, but even I was surprised at the allegations........at first. Then it made sense. Keep in mind that my client was interviewed at the time of the murder and didn't even raise a red flag.

Who 'isn't a suspect' that could be overlooked in this case? I really think that the person responsible for Tara's disappearance is someone that is overlooked, but standing in plain sight.

[TallaTonight]

One of my clients is pending charges for murder in the death of a young mom. The circumstances surrounding this death brought this case to mind. Here's why-

My client wasn't even a suspect. The DNA was a hit, my client is toast. Obviously, I'm not able to go into details about my client, but even I was surprised at the allegations........at first. Then it made sense. Keep in mind that my client was interviewed at the time of the murder and didn't even raise a red flag.

Who 'isn't a suspect' that could be overlooked in this case? I really think that the person responsible for Tara's disappearance is someone that is overlooked, but standing in plain sight.

This is some of what I am thinking. The POI's that have been mentioned have been gone over and over, we can see that they seem to be going on with their families and LE/GBI have not seen fit to make any arrest or change any positions in LE jobs. I just feel someone very important is still hiding in plain sight. I have had my stalking theory laughed at But I still find this to be very likely. I feel this stalker would have to be someone people in Ocilla would not be leery of, they would feel comfortable with this person being around Taras' house and the various places cars were reported to have been seen. This person would have know all of Taras schedules and where she shopped, did her tanning, where she ate, who her friends were, I feel this person knew Tara better than they knew themselves. I feel Tara had that being watched feeling where you look over your shoulder constantly, I think she was freaked out about it but could never prove it. Maybe this was the reason for the conversation she had with LG? I think the last few months of her life(?) or time in Ocilla was a time of constant unrest and maybe even terror for Tara Grinstead. Read back all the old post and the archieves and you can almost see someone hiding in the shadows.

[PNut]

Well, now I'm shockled. I do NOT ever remember there being DNA evidence.

I know I have the memory of an elephant, so it's entirely possible that I had heard that and forgot,BUT....wow. Of course this is coming from Dr. G, so I guess take it with a grain of salt.

He says they have DNA that matches NO one. He won't say where it came from though. Again so many questions - was it in the house, was it from her car, was it on the glove? Does the DNA really have to do with Tara's dissapperance? If they aren't ruling out MH/HD/LG/AV as suspect's, yet it isn't their DNA, then we can assume GBI isn't SURE the DNA has to do with Tara's dissappearance?

[TallaTonight]

Well, now I'm shockled. I do NOT ever remember there being DNA evidence.

I know I have the memory of an elephant, so it's entirely possible that I had heard that and forgot,BUT....wow. Of course this is coming from Dr. G, so I guess take it with a grain of salt.

He says they have DNA that matches NO one. He won't say where it came from though. Again so many questions - was it in the house, was it from her car, was it on the glove? Does the DNA really have to do with Tara's dissapperance? If they aren't ruling out MH/HD/LG/AV as suspect's, yet it isn't their DNA, then we can assume GBI isn't SURE the DNA has to do with Tara's dissappearance?

PNut, I thought they had to have some type DNA if not why would they have DNA tested so many people? They had to have something to want to compare this with, right? I tried to look back to when they first started doing these DNA swabs but in the past months I have read so much sometimes they get blurry, I am sure Odetta or Lindsey would know, since reading here they seem to be the fact keepers. I think all this DNA stuff started long before Godwin came into the case, Right? Were they not doing swabs in the first month?

[Brainstorm]

This is some of what I am thinking. The POI's that have been mentioned have been gone over and over, we can see that they seem to be going on with their families and LE/GBI have not seen fit to make any arrest or change any positions in LE jobs. I just feel someone very important is still hiding in plain sight. I have had my stalking theory laughed at But I still find this to be very likely. I feel this stalker would have to be someone people in Ocilla would not be leery of, they would feel comfortable with this person being around Taras' house and the various places cars were reported to have been seen. This person would have know all of Taras schedules and where she shopped, did her tanning, where she ate, who her friends were, I feel this person knew Tara better than they knew themselves. I feel Tara had that being watched feeling where you look over your shoulder constantly, I think she was freaked out about it but could never prove it. Maybe this was the reason for the conversation she had with LG? I think the last few months of her life(?) or time in Ocilla was a time of constant unrest and maybe even terror for Tara Grinstead. Read back all the old post and the archieves and you can almost see someone hiding in the shadows.

I dont doubt that Tara had months of unrest,looking over her shoulder,She should have,she had been dating a MARRIED man,.......
I dont think she was freaked out,unless her conscience was freaking her out..
I cant help it, the stalker theory,and her being scared,is BULL ****, IMO
and Talla,read back yourself, HD was hiding,,,,,,IN HER HOUSE,at one point.
MY God,we are hunting anytrhing to keep from talking about WHO WAS THERE,
THAT WEEKEND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JMHO

[Results]

One of my clients is pending charges for murder in the death of a young mom. The circumstances surrounding this death brought this case to mind. Here's why-

My client wasn't even a suspect. The DNA was a hit, my client is toast. Obviously, I'm not able to go into details about my client, but even I was surprised at the allegations........at first. Then it made sense. Keep in mind that my client was interviewed at the time of the murder and didn't even raise a red flag.

Who 'isn't a suspect' that could be overlooked in this case? I really think that the person responsible for Tara's disappearance is someone that is overlooked, but standing in plain sight.

I hope they do have DNA of a perp if there is one. I would love nothing more then to have that kind of evidence in Tara's case. BUT if that dna can't clear any poi then I wonder about the DNA. I'm with Pnut on this one that is strange that this DNA can not clear a POI. JMHO

[One2Snoop]

I can think of one. The nextdoor neighbor. imo


Can you give more on this thought other than just saying you think the next door neighbor did it? I personally don't think the neighbor "did it" but who knows, you might be right. :shrug:

[PNut]

PNut, I thought they had to have some type DNA if not why would they have DNA tested so many people? They had to have something to want to compare this with, right? I tried to look back to when they first started doing these DNA swabs but in the past months I have read so much sometimes they get blurry, I am sure Odetta or Lindsey would know, since reading here they seem to be the fact keepers. I think all this DNA stuff started long before Godwin came into the case, Right? Were they not doing swabs in the first month?

I thought the DNA gathering/swabbing in the beginning was just a standard procedure. Just a basic evidence gathering of those closest to Tara. :shrug: But I am in no way up on the GBI procedures in a missing persons case, so I surely stand to be corrected.

[Results]

Perhaps from the dog's collar?

Lets say it is from the dog's collar why aren't they clearing every single person that gave their DNA. What is the motive not to clear them?

[odette]

Could DNA Hold A Clue To Tara Grinsteads Fate?
by Seamus McGraw
May 16, 2006

http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0506/1601_tara_grinstead_dna.html

[Results]

I can think of one. The nextdoor neighbor. imo

One problem with the neighbor and that is his wife. Mrs. P said Dolly kept barking keeping her up for hours. Mr P would have been gone and his wife would have known it therefore hard for it to be the neighbor IMO.

[Lindsey]

Two things I like to highlight here:

1. The linnens were taken: I thought I read over here many times there was NOTHING taken from the bed, no sheets and no linnens????

2. The box of pictures under the bed: it must have been there a long time because it had a thick layer of dust on it: I thought Tara was a very neat and peticulous person who kept everything shiny clean??? Does this mean we ought to believe Tara never cleaned her bedroom or went mopping under her bed??

Pfff such a frustrating case and besides the theories and POI we know, there still isn't a lot to go on after all this time, it's sad...

1.) IIRC, a comforter was taken from Tara's bed. I don't know why they would take the comforter and not the linens. I stand to be corrected but that's what I am remembering.

2.) A person can be neat but still not clean every square inch of their home. (I saw a little dust on the baseboard between the bed and the bedside table.)
But remember it wasn't until March '06 that Dr G went to Tara's house and "found" his clues. At that point, she had been missing 5 months. A good bit of dust can collect in that time even if it had been squeaky clean when Tara disappeared.

IMO

[PNut]

Thanks for the link Odette - and yes, Talla, it looks like Dr G agrees with your point - they don't take DNA swabs unless they have something to compare it to.

Side Note: I got a chuckle out of this quote from that article:

"Precisely where the evidence was recovered also remains a closely guarded secret. "I know," Godwin told Crime Library. "I can't tell you."

Nanny nanny boo boo. :tongue:

[Brainstorm]

I haven't been able to find where Mrs. P has said anything to the media. Mr. P seems to speak for her. imo

and you have a problem with that ?

Mrs. P might NOT WANT TO speak to media,Nothing wrong with that IMO..
but Results is correct, if Mr. P had been out, Mrs.P would have known, IMO
JMHO
and I'd talk to LE anyday,but bring the camera crew,and I would stay out of range,LOL

[concernedperson]

I haven't been able to find where Mrs. P has said anything to the media. Mr. P seems to speak for her. imo

I haven't either and I have looked. It wouldn't be the first time a wife covered for her husband. Not saying this is the case but after all this time someone, somewhere, is covering enough so the truth doesn't come out. JMO.

[readmylips]

I haven't been able to find where Mrs. P has said anything to the media. Mr. P seems to speak for her. imo

maybe she doesn't have a love for the spotlight and is just happy letting him do the talking? i am sure if he misrepresentd her she would have said so. from what i have seen she is a strong woman with a mind of her own. there is really no need to start dreaming up a fictional drama surrounding the p's imo. haven't we already gone down that road?

[TallaTonight]

I dont doubt that Tara had months of unrest,looking over her shoulder,She should have,she had been dating a MARRIED man,.......
I dont think she was freaked out,unless her conscience was freaking her out..
I cant help it, the stalker theory,and her being scared,is BULL ****, IMO
and Talla,read back yourself, HD was hiding,,,,,,IN HER HOUSE,at one point.
MY God,we are hunting anytrhing to keep from talking about WHO WAS THERE,
THAT WEEKEND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JMHO

Brainstorm,
I will try to address your post by numbers I have snipped your concerns onto my post and numbered them.
1.I dont doubt that Tara had months of unrest,looking over her shoulder,She should have,she had been dating a MARRIED man,.......
My answer:
Since the beginning of time men and women have been unfaithful. We do not know the circumstance of their 'affair' or even absolutely that there was one. I will not try to defend either of them in this but unless you have talked with Tara or HD you don't know the details.
2. I dont think she was freaked out,unless her conscience was freaking her out..
If she was being unfaithful with HD I would imagine her love for him had her blinded to any form of conscience, we women have that element in us that when we are in love we are blind.
3. I cant help it, the stalker theory,and her being scared,is BULL ****
I have a friend that was stalked not long ago, it was horrific everytime she went outside she felt watched, she would catch a glimps of someone when she turned fast, she heard twigs break near her window at night. This went on for several weeks, one morning she got up to go to work and was attacked as she went to her car. She was cut on her face and the prep was in the process of raping her when her sceams were heard. She did not know the man, never saw him and had no idea why he choose her.
4. and Talla,read back yourself, HD was hiding,,,,,,IN HER HOUSE,at one point.
MY God,we are hunting anytrhing to keep from talking about WHO WAS THERE,
THAT WEEKEND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have read this in the Vickers report. I have no opinion of HD one way or the other, if you can Prove why he stayed inside maybe I would change my mind. Now I can see it as several different things. Some good Some bad, but enough for me to say he murdered Tara, NO. I am hunting anything NOT to talk about HD??? I have just not seen enough to take him to the whipping post yet. I see that MH was put through this same type of scrutny and now he seems to be the good guy. I stated in my first theory post all I have found and read on the guys involved with Tara do not seem the type to murder a woman they probably loved. AMOHO

[Results]

I haven't been able to find where Mrs. P has said anything to the media. Mr. P seems to speak for her. imo

Can't argue with you there. Point well taken.

[Results]

maybe she doesn't have a love for the spotlight and is just happy letting him do the talking? i am sure if he misrepresentd her she would have said so. from what i have seen she is a strong woman with a mind of her own. there is really no need to start dreaming up a fictional drama surrounding the p's imo. haven't we already gone down that road?

I'm glad you spoke up about knowing her. I just found it odd that they used Mrs. P's timeline of the dog barking and now they are using it against them. I have always thought if Dolly was barking at a perp and it was keeping Mrs. P up and tells her husband when he gets up that pretty much clears him is why I haven't thought he was the perp. JMHO

[Results]

2. I dont think she was freaked out,unless her conscience was freaking her out..
If she was being unfaithful with HD I would imagine her love for him had her blinded to any form of conscience, we women have that element in us that when we are in love we are blind.


I am a woman and I have never even considered a married man in my life. We as a woman may let things slide with our spouse/boyfriend but to date a married man is not blinded by love it is pure wrong and it hurts everyone that is involved. FWIW, I can't see Mrs. D leaving HD for a rumored affair. JMHO

[TallaTonight]

maybe she doesn't have a love for the spotlight and is just happy letting him do the talking? i am sure if he misrepresentd her she would have said so. from what i have seen she is a strong woman with a mind of her own. there is really no need to start dreaming up a fictional drama surrounding the p's imo. haven't we already gone down that road?


I agree with you, she seems like a reserved person and he seems very outgoing, perfect couple. I think they are good people even role models that did all they could for Tara. I am sure Mr. P lives daily with the thought of 'what if' and that is unfair because he was just doing what he thought was right and gentleman like. AMOHO

[Brainstorm]

I haven't either and I have looked. It wouldn't be the first time a wife covered for her husband. Not saying this is the case but after all this time someone, somewhere, is covering enough so the truth doesn't come out. JMO.

Oh, I agree, someone is covering, but get real......IF WE COULD EXPLAIN AWAY ALL HD's actions,and rule him out,then I'll look elsewhere.
If HD hadnt LIED , I believe this case WOULD BE SOLVED.
tHE WAY IT STANDS NOW, WE ARE TRYING TO FIND A PERP,but the man who was all over Taras',has to be left out?????
I'm just baffled and confused.... I just cant get past HD. but I will be reading,in case someone comes up with something new.
JMHO

[Atok]

Perhaps from the dog's collar?

That's what Brian's Predictions said last year.

[odette]

I haven't been able to find where Mrs. P has said anything to the media. Mr. P seems to speak for her. imo

Mrs P. spoke briefly to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Published on: 02/05/06.

Article longer available at AJC but you can read it at this link ..

http://fromwhisperstor.6.forumer.com/a/tara-grinstead-31-missing-102205-georgia_post1982-30.html

imo

[TallaTonight]

I am a woman and I have never even considered a married man in my life. We as a woman may let things slide with our spouse/boyfriend but to date a married man is not blinded by love it is pure wrong and it hurts everyone that is involved. FWIW, I can't see Mrs. D leaving HD for a rumored affair. JMHO

Results you could be right. I have never dated a married man, but I have been asked. I don't have an opinion of Tara and HD, maybe I will soon, but right now I am not sure what their relationship was. I have tried to look at all the men in the prospect of what they would have offered to Tara. She did not have very good taste it seems. Her choices in men were not what I would have imagined her to have chosen. I cannot see any of these men who were mostly trained in LE and they seem to come from good families, I just can't see them harming her UNLESS it was an accident, but if it was an accident they would know to report it now would be in their favor. This is my problem with the HD murder theory, it was with the MH murder theory. These were adult well trained men they would know what to do in crisis.

[Results]

Results you could be right. I have never dated a married man, but I have been asked. I don't have an opinion of Tara and HD, maybe I will soon, but right now I am not sure what their relationship was. I have tried to look at all the men in the prospect of what they would have offered to Tara. She did not have very good taste it seems. Her choices in men were not what I would have imagined her to have chosen. I cannot see any of these men who were mostly trained in LE and they seem to come from good families, I just can't see them harming her UNLESS it was an accident, but if it was an accident they would know to report it now would be in their favor. This is my problem with the HD murder theory, it was with the MH murder theory. These were adult well trained men they would know what to do in crisis.

Well I can tell you that I have never been asked to date a married man probably because I would have slapped the hell out of them but hey that is just me. JMHO

[TallaTonight]

Well I can tell you that I have never been asked to date a married man probably because I would have slapped the hell out of them but hey that is just me. JMHO

Well I did not go LOL. I did not consider it a compliment and I did let it get back to his wife.

[TallaTonight]

Mrs P. spoke briefly to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Published on: 02/05/06.

Article longer available at AJC but you can read it at this link ..

http://fromwhisperstor.6.forumer.com/a/tara-grinstead-31-missing-102205-georgia_post1982-30.html

imo

Thank you she did sound very lady like and very concerned. I think they loved Tara very much and it has probably been a tramatic event for them to cope with in their Golden Years. If they had had any idea they would have protected her. Tara was loved by many I can tell that by reading about her.

[Fun4You]

I can think of one. The nextdoor neighbor. imo

Besides the mentioned POI in this case, he is one that constantly is on my mind too. I know many people won't even look at that angle but his actions during the very beginning raised big question marks in my mind and being in the position he is in in the community and being very well respected, he certainly would be overlooked don't you think?
And it is not because he is married that his sexual life is happy or fulfilled or that he can't be interested in someone other than his wife.
Maybe that interest became a fixation and he acted upon it, resulting in this terrible tragedy.

I don't know, it's hard to pinpoint to one particular person, due to the fact that everyone involved acted kind of strange at the beginning and through the investigation.

And why isn't there still no robot picture of the person seen by the minor outside Tara's house besides his truck? Where the hell did this very very important piece of info get to?
Did this minor lie about the sighting or does the GBI think it is of no importance?

[dixinites]

SNIP>Mrs P. spoke briefly to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution Published on: 02/05/06.
http://fromwhisperstor.6.forumer.com/a/tara-grinstead-31-missing-102205-georgia_post1982-30.html imo

Thanks for posting this, Odette. I had not seen a few of these articles before. OT:

{"Not all of Tara's neighbors had been questioned, my dad and the private agent that's working with the family, they went door to door and in two days they found five families that no one has ever talked to them," said Gattis.}

I had never heard any reference to AG's father before and I thought this was interesting.

[fsbiii]

She's talking about BG (adopted dad), not her bio dad, IMO, FWIW. I don't recall reading that line either, though.

Thanks for posting this, Odette. I had not seen a few of these articles before. OT:

{"Not all of Tara's neighbors had been questioned, my dad and the private agent that's working with the family, they went door to door and in two days they found five families that no one has ever talked to them," said Gattis.}

I had never heard any reference to AG's father before and I thought this was interesting.

[Its just me]

Besides the mentioned POI in this case, he is one that constantly is on my mind too. I know many people won't even look at that angle but his actions during the very beginning raised big question marks in my mind and being in the position he is in in the community and being very well respected, he certainly would be overlooked don't you think?
And it is not because he is married that his sexual life is happy or fulfilled or that he can't be interested in someone other than his wife.
Maybe that interest became a fixation and he acted upon it, resulting in this terrible tragedy.

I don't know, it's hard to pinpoint to one particular person, due to the fact that everyone involved acted kind of strange at the beginning and through the investigation.

And why isn't there still no robot picture of the person seen by the minor outside Tara's house besides his truck? Where the hell did this very very important piece of info get to?
Did this minor lie about the sighting or does the GBI think it is of no importance?

I don't know what happened to this evidence. I would hope that if the GBI thought this was a possibility and could not locate this truck and driver they would have put some kind of description out to help them find the driver. All this came from AG and Dr. G and I do know everything DR. G. claims was evidence was not evidence. Like the broken bed. The bed was broke but it happened months before Tara went missing. I just don't have much faith in any evidence Dr. G or AG brings forward but I truly hope they can help find Tara.

[fsbiii]

I concur with IJM. I think the "unmatched DNA" was just Godwin fluff to make him sound important on tv, and I think the "child witness" was overblown fluff. Love to be proven wrong on both issues, if possible.

"I know,"
but
"I can' tell you."

:hat:

I don't know what happened to this evidence. I would hope that if the GBI thought this was a possibility and could not locate this truck and driver they would have put some kind of description out to help them find the driver. All this came from AG and Dr. G and I do know everything DR. G. claims was evidence was not evidence. Like the broken bed. The bed was broke but it happened months before Tara went missing. I just don't have much faith in any evidence Dr. G or AG brings forward but I truly hope they can help find Tara.

[dixinites]

She's talking about BG (adopted dad), not her bio dad, IMO, FWIW. I don't recall reading that line either, though.

I wasn't sure, because of all of the references made to "the other side" of the family, and none of them had "warm and fuzzy" connotations. JMO.

[dixinites]

SNIP>I concur with IJM. I think the "unmatched DNA" was just Godwin fluff to make him sound important on tv, and I think the "child witness" was overblown fluff. Love to be proven wrong on both issues, if possible.

I've always wondered about this little tidbit of information, too. Why would anyone be overly concerned about the "safety" of this underage witness? How would going to LE and doing a composite or looking at photos of POI's in the case put him in any "danger" (as alluded to by AG)?

[grandline]

I've always wondered about this little tidbit of information, too. Why would anyone be overly concerned about the "safety" of this underage witness? How would going to LE and doing a composite or looking at photos of POI's in the case put him in any "danger" (as alluded to by AG)?

I think opportunists who were looking to benefit from possible book and/or movie deals capitalizing on this tragedy kept throwing bait logs on the theatrical fire to create smokescreens of drama and intrigue. Sometimes the basic truth is just not that exciting. This is all JMO. :patriot:

[TallaTonight]

I think opportunists who were looking to benefit from possible book and/or movie deals capitalizing on this tragedy kept throwing bait logs on the theatrical fire to create smokescreens of drama and intrigue. Sometimes the basic truth is just not that exciting. This is all JMO. :patriot:

Are there book and/or movie deals made? I hate when people profit over things like this. But would it not be hard to get a book and/or movie deal when the question of Tara just walking away is still in some peoples minds? On the DNA I thought DNA was a question before Goodwin came onto the scene. Golly, who do you think is doing a book?AIMOO

[Brainstorm]

Are there book and/or movie deals made? I hate when people profit over things like this. But would it not be hard to get a book and/or movie deal when the question of Tara just walking away is still in some peoples minds? On the DNA I thought DNA was a question before Goodwin came onto the scene. Golly, who do you think is doing a book?AIMOO

here we go again,fsbiii,is this funny? LOL
this is my opinion,talla,and just my opinion..........I wondered or dreamed
if AG was doing this in private,since she hadnt been heard from,so I wondered
if she was just going to write a book,TELL ALL,her version,PUT THE WHOOOOOLE COUNTY,and every body in it, in a BAD light, and I thought oh hell no,SHE WOULDN'T do that !!! NO,she's just looking for Tara and cant stand the media anymore.JUST LEAVE her alone and let her be......
and besides, the only good titles were taken,midnight in the garden of good & evil........hicks stlye ?
JMHO

[TallaTonight]

here we go again,fsbiii,is this funny? LOL
this is my opinion,talla,and just my opinion..........I wondered or dreamed
if AG was doing this in private,since she hadnt been heard from,so I wondered
if she was just going to write a book,TELL ALL,her version,PUT THE WHOOOOOLE COUNTY,and every body in it, in a BAD light, and I thought oh hell no,SHE WOULDN'T do that !!! NO,she's just looking for Tara and cant stand the media anymore.JUST LEAVE her alone and let her be......
and besides, the only good titles were taken,midnight in the garden of good & evil........hicks stlye ?
JMHO

Are you saying Anita has a book deal? I had heard someone from Ocilla might be doing a book, or even the investigator but I had not heard of this. I saw some jokes made about possible titles but I thought it was just jokes. I still say anyone making a profit over someone’s misfortune is not right. I can't even see what one would write in a book about Tara at this point. Seems to me something would have to be known, proved or techniques used as an example, none of those have been proved or used IMO. Oh well I will have to borrow a copy as I do not see where a book would be very informative at this stage. Somehow I do not believe that was what the original post from 'grandline' that I answered meant, but who knows, I answered because I wondered if a book and/or movie deal was in the works.

[One2Snoop]

Are you saying Anita has a book deal? I had heard someone from Ocilla might be doing a book, or even the investigator but I had not heard of this. I saw some jokes made about possible titles but I thought it was just jokes. I still say anyone making a profit over someone’s misfortune is not right. I can't even see what one would write in a book about Tara at this point. Seems to me something would have to be known, proved or techniques used as an example, none of those have been proved or used IMO. Oh well I will have to borrow a copy as I do not see where a book would be very informative at this stage. Somehow I do not believe that was what the original post from 'grandline' that I answered meant, but who knows, I answered because I thought a book and/or movie deal was in the works.


I think you're right about what you saw. I stand to be corrected.

[The R]

I was looking for the thread with the references to HD parking his car in Ocilla and can't find it.

Anyway...not to get off topic, but I have a question that hopefully some of the locals can answer. I do remember a couple locals being sure that HD's car would've been seen, so I'd like to ask if they know which OPD officer(s) would've been on duty and would've likely seen HD's vehicles esp. if they were parked at certain times of the day?

TIA

ALLMO,
R

[grandline]

I still say anyone making a profit over someone’s misfortune is not right.

I absolutely agree with the quoted statement.

I still wonder about DrG's "involvement" with this case. He seems to enjoy promoting himself and his works. I felt sure if anyone was going to try to reap a buck from this case it would be him...but then there was that little incident with AG having an author/book promoter/whatever he was on her Myspace top friends as well...and correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he (the book guy on Myspace) have in a hand in putting out a book about the Holloway case?

The point of it all is, I think some things have been over-dramatized for media appeal. Don't even get me started on the whole DrG - death threat thing. I don't think there is as much danger and secrecy in Ocilla as some like to imagine there is. :confused:

All of this posted because of Dixinites original post asking about why there was supposedly so much concern about witnesses coming forward due to "danger", etc.

[odette]

I was looking for the thread with the references to HD parking his car in Ocilla and can't find it.

Anyway...not to get off topic, but I have a question that hopefully some of the locals can answer. I do remember a couple locals being sure that HD's car would've been seen, so I'd like to ask if they know which OPD officer(s) would've been on duty and would've likely seen HD's vehicles esp. if they were parked at certain times of the day?
TIA
ALLMO,
R
"I was looking for the thread with the references to HD parking his car in Ocilla and can't find it".

I think you will find the post with the various parking spots HD used when visiting Ocilla at the below link.

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=266543&page=91

imo

[TallaTonight]

I absolutely agree with the quoted statement.

I still wonder about DrG's "involvement" with this case. He seems to enjoy promoting himself and his works. I felt sure if anyone was going to try to reap a buck from this case it would be him...but then there was that little incident with AG having an author/book promoter/whatever he was on her Myspace top friends as well...and correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he (the book guy on Myspace) have in a hand in putting out a book about the Holloway case?

The point of it all is, I think some things have been over-dramatized for media appeal. Don't even get me started on the whole DrG - death threat thing. I don't think there is as much danger and secrecy in Ocilla as some like to imagine there is. :confused:

All of this posted because of Dixinites original post asking about why there was supposedly so much concern about witnesses coming forward due to "danger", etc.

I have no idea about this part of your post:
AG having an author/book promoter/whatever he was on her Myspace top friends as well...and correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he (the book guy on Myspace) have in a hand in putting out a book about the Holloway case?
I just can't imagine where she would have that much to write about but thats me. I have not liked the way the Holloway case has used lots of things to capitalize on a tragic happening.

I will have to agree that much about this case has upset me too. I just would like Tara to be found, if she is dead let her rest in Peace if she is alive let her live in Peace.

[Brainstorm]

Are you saying Anita has a book deal? I had heard someone from Ocilla might be doing a book, or even the investigator but I had not heard of this. I saw some jokes made about possible titles but I thought it was just jokes. I still say anyone making a profit over someone’s misfortune is not right. I can't even see what one would write in a book about Tara at this point. Seems to me something would have to be known, proved or techniques used as an example, none of those have been proved or used IMO. Oh well I will have to borrow a copy as I do not see where a book would be very informative at this stage. Somehow I do not believe that was what the original post from 'grandline' that I answered meant, but who knows, I answered because I wondered if a book and/or movie deal was in the works.

I think you're right about what you saw. I stand to be corrected.

I think you are correct.jmho

[Brainstorm]

and if she did,(try to make money off this-with a book,etc.) she'd have to spend it in legal fees,suing me,for slander,because if she can point fingers without proof, I can too. so,bring it on.........jmho

[The R]

"I was looking for the thread with the references to HD parking his car in Ocilla and can't find it".

I think you will find the post with the various parking spots HD used when visiting Ocilla at the below link.

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=266543&page=91

imo


Thanks Odette,

I didn't look far enough back evidently....thought it was more recent for some reason.

ALLMO,
R

[TallaTonight]

Thanks Odette,

I didn't look far enough back evidently....thought it was more recent for some reason.

ALLMO,
R

But The R did this state it was LE that saw HD's car/truck in these various places are just sources?

[TallaTonight]

But The R did this state it was LE that saw HD's car/truck in these various places are just sources?
I was to late to edit so this is my edit.
I see now what you meant, if you could find the time these car/trucks of HD was parked in these places you could find LE that was on duty that Might have seen them. Good thinking but I am sure you have been told that before LOL.
Now is this the way this work , all you have to do is find the source that saw the car/truck, get them to tell you the time, get LE that was on duty at that time that happened to see the car/truck to verify the source information, but then you would still need to know for sure it was HD's car/truck, so maybe they checked the tag?

[ocean]

One of my clients is pending charges for murder in the death of a young mom. The circumstances surrounding this death brought this case to mind. Here's why-

My client wasn't even a suspect. The DNA was a hit, my client is toast. Obviously, I'm not able to go into details about my client, but even I was surprised at the allegations........at first. Then it made sense. Keep in mind that my client was interviewed at the time of the murder and didn't even raise a red flag.

Who 'isn't a suspect' that could be overlooked in this case? I really think that the person responsible for Tara's disappearance is someone that is overlooked, but standing in plain sight.

TuscanDreams,

Can you tell what the victim's connection is to your client? Relative, co-worker, friend, stranger?

ocean

[One2Snoop]

TuscanDreams,

Can you tell what the victim's connection is to your client? Relative, co-worker, friend, stranger?

ocean

Thats a really good question Ocean. Maybe you can get a quicker response by pm'ing Tuscan. I do know that statistics are high when it comes to murder/kidnapping etc...and its usually someone the victim knows. Not sure of the exact percentages but maybe Tuscan can tell us.

[Its just me]

I've always wondered about this little tidbit of information, too. Why would anyone be overly concerned about the "safety" of this underage witness? How would going to LE and doing a composite or looking at photos of POI's in the case put him in any "danger" (as alluded to by AG)?

I totally believe this was simply drama by AG. I still belive I read somewhere that the GBI stated something about this. There could have been a truck or there could not have been one and if there was one not coming forward because of any danger makes zero sense. If I have information on a possible murder I think I will have to speak to the LE no matter how afraid I am. JMHOO

[TuscanDreams]

I am a woman and I have never even considered a married man in my life. We as a woman may let things slide with our spouse/boyfriend but to date a married man is not blinded by love it is pure wrong and it hurts everyone that is involved. FWIW, I can't see Mrs. D leaving HD for a rumored affair. JMHO

I absolutely agree with you.

The only question I have about a married guy is this- what's he telling Tara? One of my friends, who is naive and sometimes could be called stupid- fell hook line and sinker for the line a married guy was giving her. My friend was informed that "I'm getting a divorce, we don't sleep together, we just live together to care for the kids, we don't even have the same bedroom.." blah blah blah. It was all a load of crapola. That makes me wonder if Tara was being fed the same line of crap and she may have believed it. :shrug:

[One2Snoop]

Last April hopes were raised in solving the Ocilla teacher’s disappearance when a newly discovered witness surfaced in the case. The man, who was visiting Grinstead’s neighbor the night following her disappearance, said he saw a man aged 20 to 30 parked in Grinstead’s yard in a black 1990s-model Chevrolet truck. The witness, who was interviewed by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, was located by Maurice Godwin, a private forensic investigator.

http://www.tiftongazette.com/homepage/local_story_293232604.html/resources_printstory

Bump.....

IJM I think this is what you are remembering.

[Results]

I absolutely agree with you.

The only question I have about a married guy is this- what's he telling Tara? One of my friends, who is naive and sometimes could be called stupid- fell hook line and sinker for the line a married guy was giving her. My friend was informed that "I'm getting a divorce, we don't sleep together, we just live together to care for the kids, we don't even have the same bedroom.." blah blah blah. It was all a load of crapola. That makes me wonder if Tara was being fed the same line of crap and she may have believed it. :shrug:

As long as a man is married regardless if he is unhappy or happily married doesn't matter the fact is is he still is married. You know what makes me mad the most is there is a death warrant out there and you can't go to the doctor and get a shot and your cured and all is well. You take that risk of bringing it home to your family. JMHO

[concernedperson]

I was to late to edit so this is my edit.
I see now what you meant, if you could find the time these car/trucks of HD was parked in these places you could find LE that was on duty that Might have seen them. Good thinking but I am sure you have been told that before LOL.
Now is this the way this work , all you have to do is find the source that saw the car/truck, get them to tell you the time, get LE that was on duty at that time that happened to see the car/truck to verify the source information, but then you would still need to know for sure it was HD's car/truck, so maybe they checked the tag?

In my case, I jumped ahead noting that LE would have the resources available to check the tags. I wondered if the sources could absolutely verify without tag ID. So, in a round about way it seems LE would have to be the source unless it is routine to call LE in Ocilla and ask for tag info.

I just don't know the interworkings of Ocilla. I do know that in Atlanta this wouldn't be possible unless one was a high ranking official.

In any case, someone was paying more attention to Tara's business than minding their own. JMO. I just wonder why that is!!!!

[TallaTonight]

In my case, I jumped ahead noting that LE would have the resources available to check the tags. I wondered if the sources could absolutely verify without tag ID. So, in a round about way it seems LE would have to be the source unless it is routine to call LE in Ocilla and ask for tag info.

I just don't know the interworkings of Ocilla. I do know that in Atlanta this wouldn't be possible unless one was a high ranking official.

In any case, someone was paying more attention to Tara's business than minding their own. JMO. I just wonder why that is!!!!

I know what you mean. I grew up in a small town and we knew everyones car/truck But not even our young minds would note everywhere they were parked, and if they were from out of town, we just thought they were lost and else knew where they were going.
I have had a problem with this from the beginning. I still say 'someone' was stalking Tara , no other way they would know this much about who was where/when. I still say I bet she was a very scared girl before Oct.22,05 because she had to know she was being watched. My problem is was it her friends are her enemies that was watching her. I would guess enemies because she seems to be gone now.
AMOHO

[The R]

I was to late to edit so this is my edit.
I see now what you meant, if you could find the time these car/trucks of HD was parked in these places you could find LE that was on duty that Might have seen them. Good thinking but I am sure you have been told that before LOL.
Now is this the way this work , all you have to do is find the source that saw the car/truck, get them to tell you the time, get LE that was on duty at that time that happened to see the car/truck to verify the source information, but then you would still need to know for sure it was HD's car/truck, so maybe they checked the tag?


Yep Talla,

If OPD checked a suspicious tag it could be on tape somewhere. The officer could've called it in over radio and there might be a taped record of it. I would think that it might have been checked into already, but if not, might support HD being at TG's house. Of course a lot would depend on if it was called in and how long OPD keeps records. And the officer would also have the first hand knowledge in addition.

Things such as this and the AV incident would lead me to believe that OPD probably has a lot more info than is being given out.



ALLMO,
R

[The R]

I know what you mean. I grew up in a small town and we knew everyones car/truck But not even our young minds would note everywhere they were parked, and if they were from out of town, we just thought they were lost and else knew where they were going.
I have had a problem with this from the beginning. I still say 'someone' was stalking Tara , no other way they would know this much about who was where/when. I still say I bet she was a very scared girl before Oct.22,05 because she had to know she was being watched. My problem is was it her friends are her enemies that was watching her. I would guess enemies because she seems to be gone now.
AMOHO

Also Talla,

This might belong in the theories thread but I didn't think your stalker theory was that far fetched. There could have easily been someone that knew HD was at TG's on a regular basis and actually saw the car/truck there. That same person could've gone bonkers with jealous rage and done something to her. There are plenty possiblites as to who. I think some of the POI need to be revisited.

ALLMO,
R

[concernedperson]

Also Talla,

This might belong in the theories thread but I didn't think your stalker theory was that far fetched. There could have easily been someone that knew HD was at TG's on a regular basis and actually saw the car/truck there. That same person could've gone bonkers with jealous rage and done something to her. There are plenty possiblites as to who. I think some of the POI need to be revisited.

ALLMO,
R

I have to say I agree it should be in the theories thread. The stalker aspect has kept me riveted to possibilities in light of all the recent "source" info. In fact, it explains so much more to me than anything I have heard about this case since the beginning.

Thanks, Talla, for a refreshing new viewpoint.

Please post your theory in the other thread for prosperity.

[Results]

I hate to burst the bubbles of this stalker theories about the LE checking out tags of vehicles but that is so far from the truth. Lets take the parking of the vehicle behind the lodge...an elderly lady saw this vehicle there and told her family I saw a vehicle behind the lodge and there was no one in that vehicle I wonder what happened at the lodge? A family member of the elderly woman goes to work the next day and ask have you heard if anything happened at the lodge last night because my Mother/Grandmother/Sister (according to which family member it was) saw a so and so vehicle parked behind the lodge. Well then that co-worker or friend that was told of this vehicle then ask their family members and friend. So, this old lady is not stalking the driver of the vehicle she is quesioning if something happened for the vehicle to be there. So from point A (the elder lady that seen the vehicle behind the lodge) to point B (asking if anyone has heard if something happened at the lodge) to point C (discussing the vehicle to try to find out what happened at the lodge) to point D (says what vehicle was it and then bingo) to point E (oh that vehicle is that mans vehicle that comes to see that teacher Tara. Gossip - Yes. Stalking - No.

Parking in Tara's driveway - a resident that lives on the road that passes by Tara's house on the way home sees a vehicle in the driveway some times and sees the vehicle parked at the P's sometimes. This resident is not a stalker he sees Tara's house on his way home from work or when he goes to town and comes back by Tara's to go home again then he is not a stalker. If this man is a stalker then we ALL ARE STALKERS. I doubt if there is one person that doesn't drive by a house in their neighborhood everyday that if there is a different vehicle in the driveway that you don't notice it. To make sure my point is coming across I will give an example. A resident from the neighborhood drives by Tara's everyday and see's her white car there. Since she is known as a teacher and lives alone if another vehicle is there then they know she has company. This resident of that neighborhood is not stalking Tara he is using his common sense to know that another vehicle is parked there that Tara has company/visitor. Then this neighbor goes by Tara's house and sees the same vehicle parked at the P's again this neighbor is just observing this parking he is not stalking Tara he is just going home and happens to have to pass Tara's to get there.

IF Tara was being stalked it wasn't from any of the people that saw these vehicles. JMHO

[dixinites]

I agree with Results, you can "notice" these things without being a stalker. I gave a "true life" example regarding my neighbor. Trust me, I am not stalking him by any stretch of the imagination. He drives a red sportscar and is a little creepy, so I "noticed" him parked at a neighbor's. It's called being aware of your surroundings. If there was an attractive man in this neighborhood, I would probably be even more inclined to "notice" his comings and goings...but I wouldn't classify that as stalking, either.

To clarify my reference to Ocilla police "noticing" people coming and going from Tara's house, I did not mean that they were necessarily doing so in an official capacity. Tara dated a former Ocilla officer for six years. She was an attractive female. I think that the other officers on the force were probably acquainted with her. I also think that they were probably aware of some of the "drama" between Tara and MH. Call it curiosity or call it nosy, but I think they were aware of Tara's visitors, especially after the AV incident. I don't think they were "running tag numbers", but I think they were aware of what was going on...and so were the neighbors. JMO.

[The R]

I hate to burst the bubbles of this stalker theories about the LE checking out tags of vehicles but that is so far from the truth. Lets take the parking of the vehicle behind the lodge...an elderly lady saw this vehicle there and told her family I saw a vehicle behind the lodge and there was no one in that vehicle I wonder what happened at the lodge? A family member of the elderly woman goes to work the next day and ask have you heard if anything happened at the lodge last night because my Mother/Grandmother/Sister (according to which family member it was) saw a so and so vehicle parked behind the lodge. Well then that co-worker or friend that was told of this vehicle then ask their family members and friend. So, this old lady is not stalking the driver of the vehicle she is quesioning if something happened for the vehicle to be there. So from point A (the elder lady that seen the vehicle behind the lodge) to point B (asking if anyone has heard if something happened at the lodge) to point C (discussing the vehicle to try to find out what happened at the lodge) to point D (says what vehicle was it and then bingo) to point E (oh that vehicle is that mans vehicle that comes to see that teacher Tara. Gossip - Yes. Stalking - No.

Parking in Tara's driveway - a resident that lives on the road that passes by Tara's house on the way home sees a vehicle in the driveway some times and sees the vehicle parked at the P's sometimes. This resident is not a stalker he sees Tara's house on his way home from work or when he goes to town and comes back by Tara's to go home again then he is not a stalker. If this man is a stalker then we ALL ARE STALKERS. I doubt if there is one person that doesn't drive by a house in their neighborhood everyday that if there is a different vehicle in the driveway that you don't notice it. To make sure my point is coming across I will give an example. A resident from the neighborhood drives by Tara's everyday and see's her white car there. Since she is known as a teacher and lives alone if another vehicle is there then they know she has company. This resident of that neighborhood is not stalking Tara he is using his common sense to know that another vehicle is parked there that Tara has company/visitor. Then this neighbor goes by Tara's house and sees the same vehicle parked at the P's again this neighbor is just observing this parking he is not stalking Tara he is just going home and happens to have to pass Tara's to get there.

IF Tara was being stalked it wasn't from any of the people that saw these vehicles. JMHO

Call it a 'noticer' or whatever you want but the fact remains that there could've been someone who was angry that TG had this visitor and 'noticed' the fact he was there quite a bit (if he was). I couldn't say for sure that this person(s) was a stalker so I'd certainly be using the term loosely that's for sure, but it is a possibility regardless. And it is also possible that LE checked tags, etc. at first noticing a strange vehicle in the neighborhood unless, of course, you've spoken to the Chief about it who stated otherwise.

I don't know who you were referring to when you stated you didn't want to burst anyone's bubbles while you were delivering the truth, but I'm glad you cited the example of where some elderly lady may have seen the car. That scenario is certainly not what I'd be referring to, although the 'angry' subject - if there was one - might also have heard the 'gossip' too.


ALLMO,
R

[Results]

Call it a 'noticer' or whatever you want but the fact remains that there could've been someone who was angry that TG had this visitor and 'noticed' the fact he was there quite a bit (if he was). I couldn't say for sure that this person(s) was a stalker so I'd certainly be using the term loosely that's for sure, but it is a possibility regardless. And it is also possible that LE checked tags, etc. at first noticing a strange vehicle in the neighborhood unless, of course, you've spoken to the Chief about it who stated otherwise.

I don't know who you were referring to when you stated you didn't want to burst anyone's bubbles while you were delivering the truth, but I'm glad you cited the example of where some elderly lady may have seen the car. That scenario is certainly not what I'd be referring to, although the 'angry' subject - if there was one - might also have heard the 'gossip' too.


ALLMO,
R

First off if you didn't notice the discussion was over what my sources saw and it turned into them being stalkers of Tara because they noticed a vehicle parked in different places. The source an elderly lady saw the vehicle behind the lodge. Several neighbors saw the vehicle parked in different driveways. So, since I gave the information I figured I should set the record straight that no one told me LE was checking tags and these people noticed not because they were stalking Tara. If you think Tara is being stalked then that is fine but I want to make it clear that no sources of mine were stalking Tara. I wanted it to be clear that I have never heard of LE running around Tara's house taking down tag numbers. If I see something that I said being taken out of context then I'm going to correct it. JMHO

FWIW, The R, I certainly do see some anger issues with you but I will say this for a Retired LE Officer you should have better sense then to invite someone to have lunch/coffee/or and discussion from a crime discussion forum. You have never spoken to me not once in all the times that I have been on this forum but one day out of the blue you want to meet me. I think that is strange indeed. That is exactly how I feel about it.

[TallaTonight]

First off if you didn't notice the discussion was over what my sources saw and it turned into them being stalkers of Tara because they noticed a vehicle parked in different places. The source an elderly lady saw the vehicle behind the lodge. Several neighbors saw the vehicle parked in different driveways. So, since I gave the information I figured I should set the record straight that no one told me LE was checking tags and these people noticed not because they were stalking Tara. If you think Tara is being stalked then that is fine but I want to make it clear that no sources of mine were stalking Tara. I wanted it to be clear that I have never heard of LE running around Tara's house taking down tag numbers. If I see something that I said being taken out of context then I'm going to correct it. JMHO

FWIW, The R, I certainly do see some anger issues with you but I will say this for a Retired LE Officer you should have better sense then to invite someone to have lunch/coffee/or and discussion from a crime discussion forum. You have never spoken to me not once in all the times that I have been on this forum but one day out of the blue you want to meet me. I think that is strange indeed. That is exactly how I feel about it.


Results,
You never mentioned anything about your 'source' other than to the fact the car/truck was seen, I still go with my stalker or noticer theory and will as long as I see so much that implies their was no much being observed concerning this young woman. I plan to post more on this because it is so much like my friend who Was stalked and attacked.
Now as to The R wanting to meet with me and my friends, we debated this, thought hard about it, looked forward to it, BUT then we thought "OH perish the thought, HE might be married!!!" Knowing the stigma placed on even seeing a friend if he is married we dropped that idea. I was a little shocked that his not asking you was the point that made you angry, I thought you were far away from GA.

[fsbiii]

Huh? :shrug:

I was a little shocked that his not asking you was the point that made you angry, I thought you were far away from GA.

[PNut]

Results,
*snip* I was a little shocked that his not asking you was the point that made you angry, I thought you were far away from GA.


But...I thought Results said he DID invite her?

[fsbiii]

I think Talla has got some facts incorrect, but I'm sure she'll twist it back to fit whatever she posted here.

But...I thought Results said he DID invite her?

[fsbiii]

Who said this?

It's been said by some, that Dr. Godwin was being paid by a few members of Tara's family to investigate the scene.

[PNut]

Aaaahhhh, I see. Gotcha! ;)

I think Talla has got some facts incorrect, but I'm sure she'll twist it back to fit whatever she posted here.

[Brainstorm]

I think Talla has got some facts incorrect, but I'm sure she'll twist it back to fit whatever she posted here.

I agree, again........maybe HD was sneaking around,stalking Tara,finding out that she was still after MH,and he also probably found out that she had had an affair with a former student, AV,so he was the BIG FOOL,,IMO
jmho

[odette]

I agree, again........maybe HD was sneaking around,stalking Tara,finding out that she was still after MH,and he also probably found out that she had had an affair with a former student, AV,so he was the BIG FOOL,,IMO
jmho

Yes Brainstorm .. maybe HD was "sneaking around, stalking Tara"?. IF anyone was stalking Tara, HD would be my first choice. Also, from what little I have learned of the man, I don't think that he'd take too kindly to being played for a fool. IMO

JMHO

[dixinites]

Results,
You never mentioned anything about your 'source' other than to the fact the car/truck was seen, I still go with my stalker or noticer theory and will as long as I see so much that implies their was no much being observed concerning this young woman. I plan to post more on this because it is so much like my friend who Was stalked and attacked.
Now as to The R wanting to meet with me and my friends, we debated this, thought hard about it, looked forward to it, BUT then we thought "OH perish the thought, HE might be married!!!" Knowing the stigma placed on even seeing a friend if he is married we dropped that idea. I was a little shocked that his not asking you was the point that made you angry, I thought you were far away from GA.

Someone please tell me this is a joke..."R", you were joking, right?

[odette]

Someone please tell me this is a joke..."R", you were joking, right?

Perhaps you missed these posts dixi.

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=8828426&postcount=185


http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=8823115&postcount=93

[One2Snoop]

Results,
You never mentioned anything about your 'source' other than to the fact the car/truck was seen, I still go with my stalker or noticer theory and will as long as I see so much that implies their was no much being observed concerning this young woman. I plan to post more on this because it is so much like my friend who Was stalked and attacked.
Now as to The R wanting to meet with me and my friends, we debated this, thought hard about it, looked forward to it, BUT then we thought "OH perish the thought, HE might be married!!!" Knowing the stigma placed on even seeing a friend if he is married we dropped that idea. I was a little shocked that his not asking you was the point that made you angry, I thought you were far away from GA.

Really? Shocked? Why? What does it matter who asked whom to lunch? And what difference does it make if the R is married? Good lord, I know many people on different message boards who've met for lunch or dinner or whatever. I've even done it myself a time or two. And for the record, I'm even married. :eek:
And just for clarification sake, your second to last sentence is wrong. I sure wish the R would show and clear this mess up.

Knowing the stigma placed on even seeing a friend if he is married we dropped that idea.

This sentence is just beyond bizarre to me - :rolleyes:

[PNut]

:read: Uhoh...I just had lunch with my best friend....whose *gasp* MARRIED!

:chicken:

[TallaTonight]

First off if you didn't notice the discussion was over what my sources saw and it turned into them being stalkers of Tara because they noticed a vehicle parked in different places. The source an elderly lady saw the vehicle behind the lodge. Several neighbors saw the vehicle parked in different driveways. So, since I gave the information I figured I should set the record straight that no one told me LE was checking tags and these people noticed not because they were stalking Tara. If you think Tara is being stalked then that is fine but I want to make it clear that no sources of mine were stalking Tara. I wanted it to be clear that I have never heard of LE running around Tara's house taking down tag numbers. If I see something that I said being taken out of context then I'm going to correct it. JMHO

FWIW, The R, I certainly do see some anger issues with you but I will say this for a Retired LE Officer you should have better sense then to invite someone to have lunch/coffee/or and discussion from a crime discussion forum. You have never spoken to me not once in all the times that I have been on this forum but one day out of the blue you want to meet me. I think that is strange indeed. That is exactly how I feel about it.

And One2Snoop this is your post:snipped Really? Shocked? Why? What does it matter who asked whom to lunch? And what difference does it make if the R is married? Good lord, I know many people on different message boards who've met for lunch or dinner or whatever. I've even done it myself a time or two. And for the record, I'm even married.
And just for clarification sake, your second to last sentence is wrong. I sure wish the R would show and clear this mess up.

Knowing the stigma placed on even seeing a friend if he is married we dropped that idea.

This sentence is just beyond bizarre to me -

So I guess you will have to take the married issue up with Results, I think it is a wee bit over the top.

[One2Snoop]

And One2Snoop this is your post:snipped Really? Shocked? Why? What does it matter who asked whom to lunch? And what difference does it make if the R is married? Good lord, I know many people on different message boards who've met for lunch or dinner or whatever. I've even done it myself a time or two. And for the record, I'm even married.
And just for clarification sake, your second to last sentence is wrong. I sure wish the R would show and clear this mess up.

Knowing the stigma placed on even seeing a friend if he is married we dropped that idea.

This sentence is just beyond bizarre to me -

So I guess you will have to take the married issue up with Results, I think it is a wee bit over the top.

:shrug: I was responding to your post, not Results.

[concernedperson]

And One2Snoop this is your post:snipped Really? Shocked? Why? What does it matter who asked whom to lunch? And what difference does it make if the R is married? Good lord, I know many people on different message boards who've met for lunch or dinner or whatever. I've even done it myself a time or two. And for the record, I'm even married.
And just for clarification sake, your second to last sentence is wrong. I sure wish the R would show and clear this mess up.

Knowing the stigma placed on even seeing a friend if he is married we dropped that idea.

This sentence is just beyond bizarre to me -

So I guess you will have to take the married issue up with Results, I think it is a wee bit over the top.

I have a plan. Since you, The R, myself and a Grinstead (not Gattis) family member are in the metro area I suggest we do plan a lunch. I am sure I am the oldest of the group so I will keep all the "lust" in tow. J/K!

Seriously, if anyone wants to get together to chat in person I would be delighted to join in.

[dixinites]

:read: Uhoh...I just had lunch with my best friend....whose *gasp* MARRIED! :chicken:

OH the shame of it all...I too have had lunch with married friends! Some of them were even married (dare I say it) to each other!!!

[PNut]

OH the shame of it all...I too have had lunch with married friends! Some of them were even married (dare I say it) to each other!!!


GET OUT! :punch:

[TallaTonight]

I have a plan. Since you, The R, myself and a Grinstead (not Gattis) family member are in the metro area I suggest we do plan a lunch. I am sure I am the oldest of the group so I will keep all the "lust" in tow. J/K!

Seriously, if anyone wants to get together to chat in person I would be delighted to join in.

OMG that sounds wonderful, LOL. Can we discuss theories and opinions without bringing the police docket and GBI files? Golly I read the TOS for this board but I did not know what all I would have to bring to this board.