The Men in this Case: Discusssion

[fsbiii]

Now if anyone has lied to LE about her disappearance, THEY may be breaking a law; but TMK Tara hasn't spoken to investigators, so that wouldn't apply to her.

[Results]

Thank you for your replies. I will come back later with the reason I asked.

Your welcome. Looking forward to your information.

[RCM-715]

it is entirely possible that hd took a ldt and it is not public knowledge. the gbi does not announce their actions. if lg had not gone on national television and announced to the world that he had taken a ldt we wouldn't know that he did. what did the gbi say their last press conference about who they were talking to and what they had done with them? or any le press conference for that matter, gbi or otherwise?

I tried to call MH today, but he wasn't available. I called another guy I know from GA, his friend was in LE for years. The friend resigned from LE and is now doing some consulting for an attorney, if I'm understanding correctly. I haven't talked with him for a while, decided to give him a call. I just came out and asked the questions. He stated his friend (the consultant) told him HD had taken a LDT. He apparently has inside info. I have no reason to not believe him. He stated HD has been RAKED over the coals and is the #1 POI at present!
The question of why we haven't heard about the LDT was stated clearly in the above post. No one has to reveal anything re: a LDT results to the public. Of course it was ole LG's decision to share with the nation his results! He's so dam* goofy! But, he gave the public some interesting info. when he did share. My question is....if HD passed his LDT then why wouldn't he want the world to know?! If otherwise....... then we wouldn't hear anything.
I've stated it b/f and I'll say it again......I don't have any idea what HD knows, but I feel he knows something re: Tara's disappearance.
Results tells us HD has had an affair b/f Tara! I can't tell you on this board how I feel about this guy! But IMO, he can't be trusted by his wife or anyone else -over-

[Results]

I tried to call MH today, but he wasn't available. I called another guy I know from GA, his friend was in LE for years. The friend resigned from LE and is now doing some consulting for an attorney, if I'm understanding correctly. I haven't talked with him for a while, decided to give him a call. I just came out and asked the questions. He stated his friend (the consultant) told him HD had taken a LDT. He apparently has inside info. I have no reason to not believe him. He stated HD has been RAKED over the coals and is the #1 POI at present!
The question of why we haven't heard about the LDT was stated clearly in the above post. No one has to reveal anything re: a LDT results to the public. Of course it was ole LG's decision to share with the nation his results! He's so dam* goofy! But, he gave the public some interesting info. when he did share. My question is....if HD passed his LDT then why wouldn't he want the world to know?! If otherwise....... then we wouldn't hear anything.
I've stated it b/f and I'll say it again......I don't have any idea what HD knows, but I feel he knows something re: Tara's disappearance.
Results tells us HD has had an affair b/f Tara! I can't tell you on this board how I feel about this guy! But IMO, he can't be trusted by his wife or anyone else -over-

Thank you so much for the information. I KNEW IT!!!!!!!!!!!! Excellent job RCM! Excellent! I KNEW IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brainstorm]

I knew IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also.

JMVHO
Ouch,my hand hurts when I slapped myself,I mean slapped the table.

[Results]

Has anyone else heard about HD being spotted on Lower River Road in the early afternoon of Sunday that weekend that Tara went missing? I have heard this by several different people. Does anyone else know about this? TIA

[Results]

Results,

I hope you didn't break your hand when you slammed in on the table:D

No, I'm not into drama! I do however love for fools to have to eat their own words! ;)

[Maybaby59]

I've read every single post on this forum...many more than once trying to get things clear in my head. But I am wondering if it has been answered that when FG called the P's Monday morning, after HD had called FG from Tara's yard...Did the P's notice HD's car at Tara's home? And knowing that the P's had a key to Tara's home...and knowing that the P's were aware that HD often visited Tara (and parked at the P's home while he was there...correct me, if I'm wrong about this)...

If the P's knew that HD was LE and FG's phone call raised concern for Tara, then why didn't Mr. P take his key over to HD and let him enter Tara's home to make sure everything was ok? Or was HD unaware that FG was going to call the P's and simply left after talking to FG? Thanks for any help in clarifying this for me. :)

Trish

[Results]

I've read every single post on this forum...many more than once trying to get things clear in my head. But I am wondering if it has been answered that when FG called the P's Monday morning, after HD had called FG from Tara's yard...Did the P's notice HD's car at Tara's home? And knowing that the P's had a key to Tara's home...and knowing that the P's were aware that HD often visited Tara (and parked at the P's home while he was there...correct me, if I'm wrong about this)...

If the P's knew that HD was LE and FG's phone call raised concern for Tara, then why didn't Mr. P take his key over to HD and let him enter Tara's home to make sure everything was ok? Or was HD unaware that FG was going to call the P's and simply left after talking to FG? Thanks for any help in clarifying this for me. :)

Trish

Trish, Mr P's interview IIRC he really didn't want to invade her privacy which maybe he did see HD's car and decided he shouldn't bother them. I don't know why he didn't investigate maybe he was tired from working on the farm all day and just layed back down and went back to sleep figuring Tara was OK. I don't believe anyone knew that Mr. P had a key to Tara's house and car. I wonder if FG called and didn't tell HD. I feel with all these wee hour call in the middle of the night and nothing was done when so many people seemed to be looking for her. We have asked questions but we really don't get any answers. It would make a big difference to me if HD told FG to call the P's or if he didn't. I know that isn't much help, sorry! JMHO

[odette]

Has anyone else heard about HD being spotted on Lower River Road in the early afternoon of Sunday that weekend that Tara went missing? I have heard this by several different people. Does anyone else know about this? TIA

Interesting ... because I was recently told by someone that HD showed up at the home of an old friend he had not seen in years on the Sunday afternoon of the weekend that Tara was last seen. This friend I was told, lives 'on the river' out of Hawkinsville, far from town. It was Lower River Road. This road is also an alternate route from Ocilla to Hawkinsville I see on maps. HD did not have his family with him at the time of the visit. The person told me that the friend thought that it was 'strange' that HD just showed up like that.

I am NOT stating this as fact because I do not know if this is true or not.

JMHO

[Results]

Interesting ... because I was recently told by someone that HD showed up at the home of an old friend he had not seen in years on the Sunday afternoon of the weekend that Tara was last seen. This friend I was told, lives 'on the river' out of Hawkinsville, far from town. It was Lower River Road. This road is also an alternate route from Ocilla to Hawkinsville I see on maps. HD did not have his family with him at the time of the visit. The person told me that the friend thought that it was 'strange' that HD just showed up like that.

I am NOT stating this as fact because I do not know if this is true or not.

JMHO

I have heard this too. I was told it was the backway to Ocilla from Hawkinsville. HD made several trips to Ocilla but has never stopped to see this friend any other time. That to me was odd in itself. He broke habit/routine again. JMHO

[Results]

Yes, but, if anyone did see him that weekend, he established a plausible alibi for being there. Just dropping in to see an old friend:rolleyes: JMHO.

More then likely that was his thinking but that backfired too! It clearly showed the route he took to get to Ocilla to Tara's house which shows he took a different route! JMHO

[odette]

Yes, but, if anyone did see him that weekend, he established a plausible alibi for being there. Just dropping in to see an old friend:rolleyes: JMHO.

Kind of like the 'leaving his card in Tara's door' alibi?. :rolleyes:

JMHO

[Its just me]

I have heard this too. I was told it was the backway to Ocilla from Hawkinsville. HD made several trips to Ocilla but has never stopped to see this friend any other time. That to me was odd in itself. He broke habit/routine again. JMHO

This visit is interesting news if it's true. I have no reason to say it is not and it is odd for several reasons. The visit to friend on this particular day, the location of friends house and visit before making many phone calls to Tara, leaving a calling card, and being at Tara's early hours Monday morning. HD was so worried about Tara but took time to visit an old friend who lives near a river. Unless the wife states differently I'm doubting HD has an alibi for early hours Sunday AM. Glad to know there has been a LDT and he is #1 poi. This may be why there is nothing coming from the AG camp (cult). If AG/LG had nothing to do with Tara's disappearance AG may have realized she made a big boo boo by pointing her finger at MH on day one and decided to shut up. JMHOO

[Its just me]

More then likely that was his thinking but that backfired too! It clearly showed the route he took to get to Ocilla to Tara's house which shows he took a different route! JMHO

There is no perfect crime. I have not looked at a map but I do not think this would be a normal route from Perry or from HD's home. May be wrong about home but I dont think so about Perry.

[Letree]

In 1997, she moved to Ocilla to take a teaching position. In 1998, she was chosen Miss Charisma in the Georgia Miss Sweet Potato Pageant. She was noted for her bubbly personality. In 1999, she won the Miss Tifton, Ga. beauty pageant and competed in the Miss Georgia pageant. Around that time, Tara began dating MH, a local policeman. Many of her friends have said Tara was deeply in love with MH. Allegedly he had a key to her home and it was anticipated that someday they would marry. After 9-11, MH left the police department and joined the U.S. Army, becoming a member of the Rangers. After MH was stationed at Hunter Army Airfield near Savannah, Tara came to visit almost twice a month for three years before he was deployed.
While MH was in the war zones, they continued to write and phone each other. They appeared to be very happy.

Tara loved her students and they adored her. In addition to History, she tried to teach them morals and ethics. She's a teacher who bought students prom dresses when they couldn't afford them. The students paid her back over time. But she put her students in a fake jail when they didn't pay fake taxes with their "Grinstead dollars" - this being part of her lesson on taxation without representation. Tara always tried to be a role and was very proud of her achievements and those of her students. One of her goal was to become a school administrator.

In 2002, she gave an interview to the Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College paper and spoke of the Miss Tifton beauty pageant. "...Miss Tifton symbolizes great achievement for women. Miss Tifton is a role model and it is a job. This is a scholarship pageant, not a beauty pageant. Miss Tifton is a local franchise of the Miss America Pageant. Miss America is the largest provider of scholarships to women in the world..."

In the spring of 2005, an incident happened that may have changed the relationship between Tara and MH. A former student came to her door one night, pounded on her door and insisted that she let him in. A neighbor called LE who came and arrested him. During questioning, the student reportedly said that he thought HD was in Tara's house because he saw his truck nearby. The report of all this was passed on to MH, which may have seemed the equivalent of a Dear John letter. When MH returned to Ocilla, he didn't bother to let Tara know. The relationship had ended as far as MH was concerned.

Tara was devastated. More than once she had an uncharacteristic emotional breakdown over the breakup of her long term relationship, a relationship that she had hoped would lead to marriage.

Lately, she had been working on her doctorate in education at Valdosta State University and working part time as an administrator at Irwin County Middle school. She had attended classes at VSU all summer. In late summer of 2005, something happened that may have been the final straw. Some believe that she became pregnant.

During the early fall, by some accounts, Tara became deeply distressed, which was uncharactoristic. In mid October one friend said, Tara had made efforts to reconnect with MH, and when he resisted, she became so overwrought that she took a long drive and had to pull over and call for assistance to get home. The next day, uncharacteristically, she called in sick to school. A few days later, when a policeman from a neighboring community whom she had dated turned up at school, she left early. That too was unusual for the highly devoted and motivated teacher. Some described her as being on an emotional roller coaster.

My thoughts are that Tara had an overwhelming motive to leave. It was simply that she had a choice of abortion or becoming an unwed mother while continuing to teach. She would have to look into the eyes of her students, friends, parents, everyone. Her image as a role model would now become a lifetime joke. She just couldn't face this so she left.
This is just my opinion so do your worst, I can take it. Please excuse the long post. LeTree

[Results]

There is no perfect crime. I have not looked at a map but I do not think this would be a normal route from Perry or from HD's home. May be wrong about home but I dont think so about Perry.

You are correct. I did alot of research on that road after I was told about it.

[concernedperson]

Good post, Letree. If Tara ran away I would think it happened exactly like you described. Thank you for your perspective.

Oh, BTW, who do you think is the father?

[BroadwayJoe]

In 1997, she moved to Ocilla to take a teaching position. In 1998, she was chosen Miss Charisma in the Georgia Miss Sweet Potato Pageant. She was noted for her bubbly personality. In 1999, she won the Miss Tifton, Ga. beauty pageant and competed in the Miss Georgia pageant. Around that time, Tara began dating MH, a local policeman. Many of her friends have said Tara was deeply in love with MH. Allegedly he had a key to her home and it was anticipated that someday they would marry. After 9-11, MH left the police department and joined the U.S. Army, becoming a member of the Rangers. After MH was stationed at Hunter Army Airfield near Savannah, Tara came to visit almost twice a month for three years before he was deployed.
While MH was in the war zones, they continued to write and phone each other. They appeared to be very happy.

Tara loved her students and they adored her. In addition to History, she tried to teach them morals and ethics. She's a teacher who bought students prom dresses when they couldn't afford them. The students paid her back over time. But she put her students in a fake jail when they didn't pay fake taxes with their "Grinstead dollars" - this being part of her lesson on taxation without representation. Tara always tried to be a role and was very proud of her achievements and those of her students. One of her goal was to become a school administrator.

In 2002, she gave an interview to the Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College paper and spoke of the Miss Tifton beauty pageant. "...Miss Tifton symbolizes great achievement for women. Miss Tifton is a role model and it is a job. This is a scholarship pageant, not a beauty pageant. Miss Tifton is a local franchise of the Miss America Pageant. Miss America is the largest provider of scholarships to women in the world..."

In the spring of 2005, an incident happened that may have changed the relationship between Tara and MH. A former student came to her door one night, pounded on her door and insisted that she let him in. A neighbor called LE who came and arrested him. During questioning, the student reportedly said that he thought HD was in Tara's house because he saw his truck nearby. The report of all this was passed on to MH, which may have seemed the equivalent of a Dear John letter. When MH returned to Ocilla, he didn't bother to let Tara know. The relationship had ended as far as MH was concerned.

Tara was devastated. More than once she had an uncharacteristic emotional breakdown over the breakup of her long term relationship, a relationship that she had hoped would lead to marriage.

Lately, she had been working on her doctorate in education at Valdosta State University and working part time as an administrator at Irwin County Middle school. She had attended classes at VSU all summer. In late summer of 2005, something happened that may have been the final straw. Some believe that she became pregnant.

During the early fall, by some accounts, Tara became deeply distressed, which was uncharactoristic. In mid October one friend said, Tara had made efforts to reconnect with MH, and when he resisted, she became so overwrought that she took a long drive and had to pull over and call for assistance to get home. The next day, uncharacteristically, she called in sick to school. A few days later, when a policeman from a neighboring community whom she had dated turned up at school, she left early. That too was unusual for the highly devoted and motivated teacher. Some described her as being on an emotional roller coaster.

My thoughts are that Tara had an overwhelming motive to leave. It was simply that she had a choice of abortion or becoming an unwed mother while continuing to teach. She would have to look into the eyes of her students, friends, parents, everyone. Her image as a role model would now become a lifetime joke. She just couldn't face this so she left.
This is just my opinion so do your worst, I can take it. Please excuse the long post. LeTree

Is this all your opinion or mostly just Crime Library article excerpts taken out of context? I think I'll pass on this one. Time for a break.

[Results]

Good Post and I hope your right that she is alive.

[One2Snoop]

Is this all your opinion or mostly just Crime Library article excerpts taken out of context? I think I'll pass on this one. Time for a break.

Please tell what was taken out of context :confused: - looks to me like Letree took that info from several different articles that were posted by Seamus McGraw and its all word for word and then she gave her opinion on it.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/tara_grinstead/index.html

[Letree]

Good Post and I hope your right that she is alive.

I checked the phonebook but the nearest match to her was:
Grinstead, Tamara
1063 NE Post St,
Roseburg, OR 97470-2188

[Its just me]

{{This is just my opinion so do your worst, I can take it. Please excuse the long post. LeTree}}

I think you posted a very good description of Tara's life before she disappeared and the kind of person she was. I pray Tara is alive and if she is I think your post makes a lot of sense and could be possible. My prayers are that if she is alive she will contact her family. IJM

[Results]

I tried to call MH today, but he wasn't available. I called another guy I know from GA, his friend was in LE for years. The friend resigned from LE and is now doing some consulting for an attorney, if I'm understanding correctly. I haven't talked with him for a while, decided to give him a call. I just came out and asked the questions. He stated his friend (the consultant) told him HD had taken a LDT. He apparently has inside info. I have no reason to not believe him. He stated HD has been RAKED over the coals and is the #1 POI at present!
The question of why we haven't heard about the LDT was stated clearly in the above post. No one has to reveal anything re: a LDT results to the public. Of course it was ole LG's decision to share with the nation his results! He's so dam* goofy! But, he gave the public some interesting info. when he did share. My question is....if HD passed his LDT then why wouldn't he want the world to know?! If otherwise....... then we wouldn't hear anything.
I've stated it b/f and I'll say it again......I don't have any idea what HD knows, but I feel he knows something re: Tara's disappearance.
Results tells us HD has had an affair b/f Tara! I can't tell you on this board how I feel about this guy! But IMO, he can't be trusted by his wife or anyone else -over-

Bumping for Broadwayjoe. I thought you might want to tell your sources about this information since you guys didn't know!

[odette]

I tried to call MH today, but he wasn't available. I called another guy I know from GA, his friend was in LE for years. The friend resigned from LE and is now doing some consulting for an attorney, if I'm understanding correctly. I haven't talked with him for a while, decided to give him a call. I just came out and asked the questions. He stated his friend (the consultant) told him HD had taken a LDT. He apparently has inside info. I have no reason to not believe him. He stated HD has been RAKED over the coals and is the #1 POI at present!
The question of why we haven't heard about the LDT was stated clearly in the above post. No one has to reveal anything re: a LDT results to the public. Of course it was ole LG's decision to share with the nation his results! He's so dam* goofy! But, he gave the public some interesting info. when he did share. My question is....if HD passed his LDT then why wouldn't he want the world to know?! If otherwise....... then we wouldn't hear anything.
I've stated it b/f and I'll say it again......I don't have any idea what HD knows, but I feel he knows something re: Tara's disappearance.
Results tells us HD has had an affair b/f Tara! I can't tell you on this board how I feel about this guy! But IMO, he can't be trusted by his wife or anyone else -over-

Thank you RCM ... interesting information ... very interesting indeed.

I am thinking that BroadwayJoe might find your post 'interesting' as well.

JMHO

[One2Snoop]

It's a bit early for my brain to be at full capacity so hopefully this post makes sense.

I think Broadway Joe is a bit overwhelmed with all this information and things aren't making sense to him anymore. JMO :rolleyes:

[Results]

I checked the phonebook but the nearest match to her was:
Grinstead, Tamara
1063 NE Post St,
Roseburg, OR 97470-2188

Thanks for the info. Let me see if I can find anything on that name.

[Results]

Interesting ... because I was recently told by someone that HD showed up at the home of an old friend he had not seen in years on the Sunday afternoon of the weekend that Tara was last seen. This friend I was told, lives 'on the river' out of Hawkinsville, far from town. It was Lower River Road. This road is also an alternate route from Ocilla to Hawkinsville I see on maps. HD did not have his family with him at the time of the visit. The person told me that the friend thought that it was 'strange' that HD just showed up like that.

I am NOT stating this as fact because I do not know if this is true or not.

JMHO

I wanted to bump this one for you too!

[Letree]

Is this all your opinion or mostly just Crime Library article excerpts taken out of context? I think I'll pass on this one. Time for a break.

You are not actually Joe Namath are you? The accent is not right.

[Results]

I researched that name and address. She has too many kins listed. If she stood out alone maybe. I haven't given up I'm still looking!

[hypnotized]

I tried to call MH today, but he wasn't available. I called another guy I know from GA, his friend was in LE for years. The friend resigned from LE and is now doing some consulting for an attorney, if I'm understanding correctly. I haven't talked with him for a while, decided to give him a call. I just came out and asked the questions. He stated his friend (the consultant) told him HD had taken a LDT. He apparently has inside info. I have no reason to not believe him. He stated HD has been RAKED over the coals and is the #1 POI at present!
The question of why we haven't heard about the LDT was stated clearly in the above post. No one has to reveal anything re: a LDT results to the public. Of course it was ole LG's decision to share with the nation his results! He's so dam* goofy! But, he gave the public some interesting info. when he did share. My question is....if HD passed his LDT then why wouldn't he want the world to know?! If otherwise....... then we wouldn't hear anything.
I've stated it b/f and I'll say it again......I don't have any idea what HD knows, but I feel he knows something re: Tara's disappearance.
Results tells us HD has had an affair b/f Tara! I can't tell you on this board how I feel about this guy! But IMO, he can't be trusted by his wife or anyone else -over-

WOW! Thank you RCM for sharing this info. If this pans out to be true, (no offense RCM) then LE is sitting on this time bomb that could detonate at any time, and in a very disasterous way. And yes, GD needs to take heed...once a lier, etc. JMO

IMO this could be a catalist for action from LE. :read:

[Letree]

I researched that name and address. She has too many kins listed. If she stood out alone maybe. I haven't given up I'm still looking!

You can quit, it's not like I really think she's in a phonebook. I only posted it to make peolple think about where Tara might be.

[Results]

You can quit, it's not like I really think she's in a phonebook. I only posted it to make peolple think about where Tara might be.

I'm not still looking at the name you suggested or looking in any phonebooks. I'm searching for anything that has grinstead or mispelled or maiden names of her Mom on all public records search engines. IF she is alive then I think it is worth a shot!

[mooloo]

A lot of information has been posted about Tara's college and school that is not correct. She was NOT working on a doctorate, she was working on a 6 year degree. She was NOT a regular part-time middle school admin. She was doing the admin work as part of one of her courses and yes, it was one block a day (an hour and a half). She was NOT hired as an admin. There's more, but that's enough to correct the wrong information about that particular topic.

I think this information got out (incorrect information) through AG, but am not positive. AG flung out a lot of wrong information and some made it under the radar. This was one (or two) of those items.


In 1997, she moved to Ocilla to take a teaching position. In 1998, she was chosen Miss Charisma in the Georgia Miss Sweet Potato Pageant. She was noted for her bubbly personality. In 1999, she won the Miss Tifton, Ga. beauty pageant and competed in the Miss Georgia pageant. Around that time, Tara began dating MH, a local policeman. Many of her friends have said Tara was deeply in love with MH. Allegedly he had a key to her home and it was anticipated that someday they would marry. After 9-11, MH left the police department and joined the U.S. Army, becoming a member of the Rangers. After MH was stationed at Hunter Army Airfield near Savannah, Tara came to visit almost twice a month for three years before he was deployed.
While MH was in the war zones, they continued to write and phone each other. They appeared to be very happy.

Tara loved her students and they adored her. In addition to History, she tried to teach them morals and ethics. She's a teacher who bought students prom dresses when they couldn't afford them. The students paid her back over time. But she put her students in a fake jail when they didn't pay fake taxes with their "Grinstead dollars" - this being part of her lesson on taxation without representation. Tara always tried to be a role and was very proud of her achievements and those of her students. One of her goal was to become a school administrator.

In 2002, she gave an interview to the Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College paper and spoke of the Miss Tifton beauty pageant. "...Miss Tifton symbolizes great achievement for women. Miss Tifton is a role model and it is a job. This is a scholarship pageant, not a beauty pageant. Miss Tifton is a local franchise of the Miss America Pageant. Miss America is the largest provider of scholarships to women in the world..."

In the spring of 2005, an incident happened that may have changed the relationship between Tara and MH. A former student came to her door one night, pounded on her door and insisted that she let him in. A neighbor called LE who came and arrested him. During questioning, the student reportedly said that he thought HD was in Tara's house because he saw his truck nearby. The report of all this was passed on to MH, which may have seemed the equivalent of a Dear John letter. When MH returned to Ocilla, he didn't bother to let Tara know. The relationship had ended as far as MH was concerned.

Tara was devastated. More than once she had an uncharacteristic emotional breakdown over the breakup of her long term relationship, a relationship that she had hoped would lead to marriage.

Lately, she had been working on her doctorate in education at Valdosta State University and working part time as an administrator at Irwin County Middle school. She had attended classes at VSU all summer. In late summer of 2005, something happened that may have been the final straw. Some believe that she became pregnant.

During the early fall, by some accounts, Tara became deeply distressed, which was uncharactoristic. In mid October one friend said, Tara had made efforts to reconnect with MH, and when he resisted, she became so overwrought that she took a long drive and had to pull over and call for assistance to get home. The next day, uncharacteristically, she called in sick to school. A few days later, when a policeman from a neighboring community whom she had dated turned up at school, she left early. That too was unusual for the highly devoted and motivated teacher. Some described her as being on an emotional roller coaster.

My thoughts are that Tara had an overwhelming motive to leave. It was simply that she had a choice of abortion or becoming an unwed mother while continuing to teach. She would have to look into the eyes of her students, friends, parents, everyone. Her image as a role model would now become a lifetime joke. She just couldn't face this so she left.
This is just my opinion so do your worst, I can take it. Please excuse the long post. LeTree

[barefoot]

Excellent post, Letree - and one that I think makes a lot of excellent points. I teach in a small town in North Carolina, and the kinds of things that you would think would have stopped being big news decades ago (an unwed mother, a teacher having an abortion, etc.) is HOT gossip. I try to keep my personal life as far from the public eye as possible, but I'm not a pageant winner/haven't dated prominent local figures and so my private life isn't is of half as much interest as Tara's was in her community. If Tara chose to run, I can certainly see why and can even sympathize; I just hope she chooses to reveal the most important answers to the people who need and deserve them most, her family.

[dixinites]

Letree: Your post was, IMO, a well presented synopsis of the CL articles published to date, however, there have been alot of posts on this board that would punch holes in some of the information you presented. I realize that these posts have not been proven as fact, but that would apply to the CL articles as well.

I believe it was RCM that stated that the relationship was over between Tara and MH before the incident with AV, that Tara had already presented MH with the "marriage ultimatum" and that MH had declined.

From the information that I have seen, realization that her six year relationship was truly over, a stressful work and school schedule and her possible (probable) relationship with a married man would easily account for her "emotional roller-coaster".

If Tara was pregnant, and I don't think she was, I still don't think she would have left behind her family and friends (not to mention her financial resources), without so much as a goodbye. If a pregnancy was involved, it would only produce more ominous overtones, such as "WHO was the father" and "HOW would he react to this information"? All JMO.

[Results]

I'm just glad to hear that they are looking right at HD! He knows something! I think they are on the right track and it was nice to hear of this news today!
JMHO

[odette]

I tried to call MH today, but he wasn't available. I called another guy I know from GA, his friend was in LE for years. The friend resigned from LE and is now doing some consulting for an attorney, if I'm understanding correctly. I haven't talked with him for a while, decided to give him a call. I just came out and asked the questions. He stated his friend (the consultant) told him HD had taken a LDT. He apparently has inside info. I have no reason to not believe him. He stated HD has been RAKED over the coals and is the #1 POI at present!
The question of why we haven't heard about the LDT was stated clearly in the above post. No one has to reveal anything re: a LDT results to the public. Of course it was ole LG's decision to share with the nation his results! He's so dam* goofy! But, he gave the public some interesting info. when he did share. My question is....if HD passed his LDT then why wouldn't he want the world to know?! If otherwise....... then we wouldn't hear anything.
I've stated it b/f and I'll say it again......I don't have any idea what HD knows, but I feel he knows something re: Tara's disappearance.
Results tells us HD has had an affair b/f Tara! I can't tell you on this board how I feel about this guy! But IMO, he can't be trusted by his wife or anyone else -over-

My question is....if HD passed his LDT then why wouldn't he want the world to know?! If otherwise....... then we wouldn't hear anything.

IMO ... because we haven't heard about the results of the LDT, which you say you were told that HD has taken, this is does not look good for HD at all.

JMHO

[The R]

fwiw, i don't know this lady at all, but IMO, GD surely has the ability to think and rationalize out any decision she makes, i would imagine. to say that you have been 'told' she was persuaded to keep her marriage together with her husband and father of her children seems like you are insulting her judgement and capability to make her own decisions. that shows real concern for a woman who is more than likely a totally innocent bystander in all of this and cannot help what hell she's been through since 10/05.i just prefer to not rip her a new one unless LE comes out and tells us we have just cause to do so.

Now having said i that really think she should be the least of anybody's worries here. she's a mother trying to raise young children in all of this and if you could even put yourself in her place and try to imagine for one second the life long stigma that will be attached to this whole horrendous situation, you would stop chiming the bells to make people come runnin' to things you know nothing about. :no:



I could only surmise that if all these things about HD are true then this lady has been through some VB times and may be just trying to stick it out for her kids. Maybe he's convinced her that he's not involved in TG's disappearance....ALLMO


R

[dixinites]

SNIP>i just prefer to not rip her a new one unless LE comes out and tells us we have just cause to do so.<SNIP

SNIP> you would stop chiming the bells to make people come runnin' to things you know nothing about. <SNIP

If Odette was ripping someone a new one, I certainly missed it! JMO, but I think her post was intended as a reflection on HD's character, not his wife's.

If GD had no knowledge of HD's relationship with Tara before the disappearance, then she is deserving of everyone's sympathy, however, I think your anger over that situation is misdirected. Perhaps you should direct it at HD instead.

Speaking of chiming bells, maybe you should take your own advice. JMO.

[fsbiii]

In the alternative, Mrs. D could also be providing her husband with an alibi and praying that the father of her children isn't a killer. Or she could be scared to death of him herself. There are many combinations that could be possible. I only hope that she is guided to provide the truth of her husband's whereabouts and any other questions posed by LE to her, if they have been posed. I don't know either of them or what their relationship is/was and what part Tara played in it, but there's an obvious odor there that cannot be denied, IMO.

[concernedperson]

What I keep going back to is the number of phone calls left for Tara by HD.It doesn't make sense to me. Even if he is a halfway stupid cop he knows that he will come under investigation. I think he didn't know at the time. He could have been suspicious later but then...I still believe he was thinking with another part of his body.

Sorry, no one has provided any proof that he wasn't just another dip****.I will concede that his behavior is suspicious as well as Anita and Larry. I am just not there.

[odette]

If Odette was ripping someone a new one, I certainly missed it! JMO, but I think her post was intended as a reflection on HD's character, not his wife's.

If GD had no knowledge of HD's relationship with Tara before the disappearance, then she is deserving of everyone's sympathy, however, I think your anger over that situation is misdirected. Perhaps you should direct it at HD instead.

Speaking of chiming bells, maybe you should take your own advice. JMO.

Thank you dixi :)

Yes, you are correct, my post was indeed intended as a 'reflection' on HD character. I have posted more than once, on this forum, that I sincerely feel for GD. IMO she has no doubt suffered much heartache due to her husband's infidelity.

JMHO

[dixinites]

SNIP>What I keep going back to is the number of phone calls left for Tara by HD.It doesn't make sense to me. Even if he is a halfway stupid cop he knows that he will come under investigation. I think he didn't know at the time. <SNIP

I think I just had a V-8 moment and I haven't thought it totally thru but...

If HD is guilty (and I'm not saying he isn't), then he would have a key to Tara's house (hers), why didn't he just go inside and erase the incriminating "I love you, I'm sorry" messages from the machine? They would appear to me to be the most incriminating evidence of an "affair", why not erase them, then he could make up any story he wanted about the number of calls and what his intentions were.

[dixinites]

Nevermind, he probably didn't have her code...told you it wasn't thought out. Sorry. D.

[concernedperson]

Many guys are unfaithful. Too many to even talk about. Some in your neighborhood and some in the next one over. Granted I have been burned but I never thought they committed murder just that they didn't deserve the people that were aligned with them.

Infidelity is a big part of life. I don't excuse it as I divorced the ones responsible but it is there. I don't come to a forum with Pollyanna eyes and I tend to look at all reasons but the primary is.....greed and selfishness. All murders fall into these two categories.

[Results]

I keep hearing that song bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do! Maybe there will be enough stink on this one that they will make an announcement! Until then I will just enjoy HD #1 POI. JMHO

[concernedperson]

I keep hearing that song bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do! Maybe there will be enough stink on this one that they will make an announcement! Until then I will just enjoy HD #1 POI. JMHO

I hear that song too and always change the channel. My least fav show on CTV.

[Results]

fwiw, i don't know this lady at all, but IMO, GD surely has the ability to think and rationalize out any decision she makes, i would imagine. to say that you have been 'told' she was persuaded to keep her marriage together with her husband and father of her children seems like you are insulting her judgement and capability to make her own decisions. that shows real concern for a woman who is more than likely a totally innocent bystander in all of this and cannot help what hell she's been through since 10/05.i just prefer to not rip her a new one unless LE comes out and tells us we have just cause to do so.

Now having said i that really think she should be the least of anybody's worries here. she's a mother trying to raise young children in all of this and if you could even put yourself in her place and try to imagine for one second the life long stigma that will be attached to this whole horrendous situation, you would stop chiming the bells to make people come runnin' to things you know nothing about. :no:

WERE YOU NOT THE PROFANITY WHA WHA WHA POSTER THE OTHER NIGHT?

[Brainstorm]

I keep hearing that song bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do! Maybe there will be enough stink on this one that they will make an announcement! Until then I will just enjoy HD #1 POI. JMHO

ITA

Just my own humble opinion !!!!!

[lighthousedazy]

: You are not actually Joe Namath are you? The accent is not right.Welcome Letree. I also thought about asking that question.:chicken:

[Letree]

: Welcome Letree. I also thought about asking that question.:chicken:

Great Minds ......

[dixinites]

Regarding the River Road information, has anyone brought this to the attn of the GBI? Has this area been searched? The fact that it's near a river is pretty ominous in itself...and on a backroad...what portion of it is in Irwin County?

[odette]

Regarding the River Road information, has anyone brought this to the attn of the GBI? Has this area been searched? The fact that it's near a river is pretty ominous in itself...and on a backroad...what portion of it is in Irwin County?

If you go to this Google Map link and enter Hawkinsville, GA, you can zoom in and out, go left/right ect. The main route between Ocilla (via Fitzgerald) and H'ville is 129 and Lower River Road is 230. Lower River Road runs almost parallel with 129. If you click on hybrid and zoom in, (3rd level from the top is as close as you will get a view) you will see that it is a long road which does not appear to have many houses on it. Click on the down arrow to move the map towards Ocilla.

http://maps.google.com/

[odette]

Just to add to my above post .. when you have the actual map showing click on the F11 key on your keyboard to give you a larger view of the map and to go back to your 'normal' screen size click the F11 key again.

[Results]

I said i don't think profanity is allowed on the board.
That was in response to you calling me a dumb*ss in your post.
That post was apparently deleted days ago and there's no valid reason for revisiting this on the board.

Now, please refrain from harrassing me on this board. :no: I'll be happy to communicate with you if you want to talk about the topic of Tara Grinstead in an adult like manner.

No communication with each other! That will work for me just fine.

[dixinites]

SNIP> Now, please refrain from harrassing me on this board. :no: I'll be happy to communicate with you if you want to talk about the topic of Tara Grinstead in an adult like manner.

...and going, and going...

Just in the last few days you have accused FSB of bullying and belittling you,and Readmylips and Results of harrassing you. You gave Odette instructions on posting etiquette and "asking nice", then turned around and lambasted her with one of yours! I'm sure there are other instances that have escaped my attention, but these are the whoppers!

JMO, but it appears to me that you fared much better on the "Characteristics" thread discussing food preferences and belly-button rings. At least you weren't there picking fights with people who know alot more about Tara's case than you do.

You can certainly add me to your list of people who find you disruptive and annoying and, for the record, I don't want to communicate with you either. Goodnight to you, as well.

[Brainstorm]

and add to that,dixi,she's got sogalady and myself all rolled up into one,sending her threatening PMs'.
It appears to me her meds(or something,maybe her water)allows her to keep on going,going,going-like you said-but you know those things(batteries,etc.) eventually corrode.
In my own opinion,of course.

[Brainstorm]

SORRY KATH,I'm not fully awake and there HAS BEEN,IMO some confusion around here the last couple days.It was manny,mannequin,who thought sogalady and myself the same,NOT YOU. SORRY AGAIN,no offense.
Too late to edit,so this is a correction post.
JMOO

[fsbiii]

oy vey........

[readmylips]

no you are wrong it was me that pointed out you and sogalady are the same person and sogalady sent the pm from sogalady account. it make it obvious from what it said you are the same person by what you/she said in the pm so just go to your sogalady sent box and read it again to refresh you memories if you need to. yes i did report to freshwater and she gave me advise which i have done so no more dicussing this is fine with me. imo you are hiding something and i hope gbi comes to speak withyou. you are the reason i disable pms so no need to send another. goodday.

now this is a fine example of that ignorance stuff that i have no patience for. for the most part i ignore it but every once in a while i feel the need to share my disgust for it. i make no apologies for that either. if someone is willing to display their mindset then they must be ready for the reactions to it imo.

[Brainstorm]

ROFLMAO,it would be PERFECTLY FINE with me if the GBI shows up at my door.!!!Maybe one of them will be unattached and I will find a soul mate.
I realize what you are doing is trying to bait posters to find out who they are and such,and if you do PLEASE SEND THE GBI (I prefer handsome, tall & NOT MARRIED) guys.I know a few LE personel but I don't actually know any GBI men. Lord,girl,granny is laughing her a** off !!!!

[dixinites]

Seems a little early for TEQUILA...maybe mucho loco weedo???

Brainstorm, while the GBI is there, maybe you can ask them some questions about Tara's case. Please, let us know what you find out...

[readmylips]

ROFLMAO,it would be PERFECTLY FINE with me if the GBI shows up at my door.!!!Maybe one of them will be unattached and I will find a soul mate.
I realize what you are doing is trying to bait posters to find out who they are and such,and if you do PLEASE SEND THE GBI (I prefer handsome, tall & NOT MARRIED) guys.I know a few LE personel but I don't actually know any GBI men. Lord,girl,granny is laughing her a** off !!!!

grannies need luv too! :tongue:

[Brainstorm]

You're too much, brainstorm. LOL, granny:biggrin:

Yeh you right.I would never put myself on any sort of dating site or such,I've heard about those things, NO WAY. Even right here at CL there's one IIRC,Nonnie Dodson.I haven't checked it out to see if there's any new news,but IMO those places just BREED crime . Now if I had any info about Taras case first I would have already reported it. I didn't KNOW Tara but I know lots and lots of young women who could,just like she,be vunerable to a sicko .So that's why I'm here !!!!!!
So,if some good-looking,intelligent GBI has nothing better to do,(he must also be very stable-minded) then here is my name and #. &**^&*&^$$&^*%*&*&%
JMHO

PS I can give references !!!!!!!!

[Its just me]

ROFLMAO,it would be PERFECTLY FINE with me if the GBI shows up at my door.!!!Maybe one of them will be unattached and I will find a soul mate.
I realize what you are doing is trying to bait posters to find out who they are and such,and if you do PLEASE SEND THE GBI (I prefer handsome, tall & NOT MARRIED) guys.I know a few LE personel but I don't actually know any GBI men. Lord,girl,granny is laughing her a** off !!!!

{{I realize what you are doing is trying to bait posters to find out who they are and such}} Glad this did not go unnoticed. I know sogalady is only sogalady on ctv and so does Mann.....

[Brainstorm]

Seems a little early for TEQUILA...maybe mucho loco weedo???

Brainstorm, while the GBI is there, maybe you can ask them some questions about Tara's case. Please, let us know what you find out...

NO WAY !!!! The GBI is coming !!
No seriously,they won't be able to find any here,and even my MEDS bottle is empty.This is me NOT on DRUGS !!!!!

I just really got excited thinking about the possibility of those good-looking,smart,buff guys that might come by and make my DAY !!!!!

I'll try to behave-fsbiii started it 1st thing this morning IMO.
I also will do whatever I possibly can do to help bring Tara back to her loved ones. I'm dead serious,here.

if I find me a good man along the way................

[fsbiii]

Now there ain't nothing wrong with snaggin' you a law abidin' stud along the way, Brainstorm. At least get you a business card if nothing else.... *LOL*

Carry on, carry on.

[Its just me]

Yeh you right.I would never put myself on any sort of dating site or such,I've heard about those things, NO WAY. Even right here at CL there's one IIRC,Nonnie Dodson.I haven't checked it out to see if there's any new news,but IMO those places just BREED crime . Now if I had any info about Taras case first I would have already reported it. I didn't KNOW Tara but I know lots and lots of young women who could,just like she,be vunerable to a sicko .So that's why I'm here !!!!!!
So,if some good-looking,intelligent GBI has nothing better to do,(he must also be very stable-minded) then here is my name and #. &**^&*&^$$&^*%*&*&%
JMHO

PS I can give references !!!!!!!!

Trust me Brainstrom....Look some other place for a mate. From reading your post you are far beyond most in that camp.

[Results]

Now there ain't nothing wrong with snaggin' you a law abidin' stud along the way, Brainstorm. At least get you a business card if nothing else.... *LOL*

Carry on, carry on.

OMG! :lol: That was priceless!

[dixinites]

LOL, the tequila and "loco weedo" reference was for Manny...I'm sure that the handsome GBI agent will have no problem with your med bottle! Sorry for the confusion...lol.

I just couldn't think of any other explanation for Manny's post...now that I think of it, I can't think of an explanation for ANY of Manny's posts! I could offer a few guesses, but I'm trying to be nice today, too.

[Brainstorm]

I didn't take it that you meant toward me,I just couldn't help myself.Granny needed a laugh. I'm sorry for being so naughty.........
but if...........
WHERE CAN I GET SOME BUSINESS CARDS PRINTED UP, FAST???????

[dixinites]

I don't know, my home phone answering maching only requires a code to access it remotely, when at I home, I just hit play, then delete. Ditto my cell phone. I think HD left those messages on the off chance that Tara mentioned to someone at the BBQ that he was calling her repeatedly. IMO, he couldn't be sure she'd keep that information to herself. Of course, it would have be wiser to erase all those messages. After all, who's to say that it wasn't Tara that erased them after reviewing them. JMHO.

I'm still keeping HD at the top of the heap, but there is still something nagging me about the phone messages... If he had Tara's key, why wouldn't he have erased at least the more incriminating messages regarding his and Tara's realtionship? He couldn't erase the number of calls but he could have altered the nature of them. My question is why didn't he? Why would he have left that "type" of message to Tara on Sunday in the first place if he had harmed her on Saturday nite? Messages pertaining to being worried about her would have seemed more appropriate if he had harmed her to reinforce his "concern" story, OR in the event he didn't harm her and was just concerned, in which case he made up the "concerned" story to cover up the affair. JMO.

[Brainstorm]

I believe it was because he was EXTREMELY DISTRESSED after Sat. nights events.
JMHO

[fsbiii]

Hypothetically, the messages (and their content and frequency), the visit, and the card all support a false alibi of serious concern for a lover...without the next logical step of going in the house to make sure she was okay or not there. I don't think he was trying to hide their relationship, really. The visits to Ocilla and the parking situation; the months-prior incident w/AV and him hiding in the house and LE being well aware of it; etc. I just don't think HD really cared, and obviously his wife doesn't either, based on current status. She might be living in hell, too, but she's still living with him in spite of what's went on that she knows about...and things she might not know about.

[Brainstorm]

I think there's still hope for her,Mrs.D(if she's not involved).She will have to wise up ,not only for herself but for her kids.
JMOO

[odette]

Hypothetically, the messages (and their content and frequency), the visit, and the card all support a false alibi of serious concern for a lover...without the next logical step of going in the house to make sure she was okay or not there. I don't think he was trying to hide their relationship, really. The visits to Ocilla and the parking situation; the months-prior incident w/AV and him hiding in the house and LE being well aware of it; etc. I just don't think HD really cared, and obviously his wife doesn't either, based on current status. She might be living in hell, too, but she's still living with him in spite of what's went on that she knows about...and things she might not know about.

I go along with theory that the multiple phone calls and the card in the door, call to FG in the middle of the night ect, were all done to support a false alibi, ie showing his 'false concern'.

JMHO

[Results]

no you are wrong it was me that pointed out you and sogalady are the same person and sogalady sent the pm from sogalady account. it make it obvious from what it said you are the same person by what you/she said in the pm so just go to your sogalady sent box and read it again to refresh you memories if you need to. yes i did report to freshwater and she gave me advise which i have done so no more dicussing this is fine with me. imo you are hiding something and i hope gbi comes to speak withyou. you are the reason i disable pms so no need to send another. goodday.

You sent me a PM telling me to back off of HD and more! I didn't PM you back but put on the board a question are you threatening me? You never responded to me. I took actions against you and I know who you are! When you started running your mouth about individuals and naming them on a public forum without IMO I gladly gave your information to them because they deserve to know who you are you were not making allegations but posting their names as fact. You have been nailed to the floor with your mouth. You need to think about your actions and IF you have any decency at all you would be ashamed of what you posted. Now, if all this wasn't bad enough you had the nerve to come on this board and LIE AGAIN! Sogalady is not Brainstorm. I am friends with both Sogalady and Brainstorm. I have both of their numbers and names so I know for a fact they are not the same but you tried to discredit them because YOU WERE BUSTED. The truth is we know who you are and will soon learn who we are! Trust me on that one! Now, if you have any problems with what I just said then you take them up with me and leave sogalady and brainstorm alone. Maybe now you will learn to not open your mouth so quickly and speak horrible acts against someone in which you know nothing about. Goodday to you because I don't think you will be having too many in the near future. As always this is just what I have done and know and an opinion of your character that has spoken volumes of who you really are!

[dixinites]

Good point, Merrick, about the keys. I do the same thing.

But why leave "I love you" messages on Sun if Tara was harmed on Saturday nite? Could our accepted time-line be off? Maybe something happened to her on Sunday nite, and the 12:15 AM visit was to alter the answering machine? If so, a bathroom light coming on at the P's (or something along those lines) could have spooked him, thus the call to FG to establish his reason for being there in case he was seen...Just guessing, help me out here.

[odette]

Good point, Merrick, about the keys. I do the same thing.

But why leave "I love you" messages on Sun if Tara was harmed on Saturday nite? Could our accepted time-line be off? Maybe something happened to her on Sunday nite, and the 12:15 AM visit was to alter the answering machine? If so, a bathroom light coming on at the P's (or something along those lines) could have spooked him, thus the call to FG to establish his reason for being there in case he was seen...Just guessing, help me out here.

Just briefly, my theory is that HD came to Ocilla sometime late Saturday night or early Sunday morning and he and Tara went somewhere and the rest that followed was ???. I theororize that Sunday was spent setting up his 'false alibi'.

I keep wondering about his alleged visit to the 'old friend' on Lower River Road early Sunday afternoon. It appears to be a very rural area and, if true, I kind of wonder what it was that caused him to be out in that area in the first place on a Sunday afternoon without his family with him. The person who told me this said that the 'old friend', who had not see HD for years, thought that it was 'strange' of him to show up unexpected like he did and that it could not have possibly have been a case of "I was just in the neighborhood."

Just something else to think about .......

JMHO

[Results]

Just briefly, my theory is that HD came to Ocilla sometime late Saturday night or early Sunday morning and he and Tara went somewhere and the rest that followed was ???. I theororize that Sunday was spent setting up his 'false alibi'.

I keep wondering about his alleged visit to the 'old friend' on Lower River Road early Sunday afternoon. It appears to be a very rural area and, if true, I kind of wonder what it was that caused him to be out in that area in the first place on a Sunday afternoon without his family with him. The person who told me this said that the 'old friend', who had not see HD for years, thought that it was 'strange' of him to show up unexpected like he did and that it could not have possibly have been a case of "I was just in the neighborhood."

Just something else to think about .......

JMHO

ITA and I hope this friend on the river has talked to LE. This friend can tell us what vehicle he was driving. This friend is more important then he thinks he is. JMHO

[Brainstorm]

Is this Lower River Road also known as just River Road? North of Fitzgeraldtowards Bowens Mill and east towards Jacksonville, Ga.?
Or is this closer to the Hawinsville area?

[hypnotized]

Just briefly, my theory is that HD came to Ocilla sometime late Saturday night or early Sunday morning and he and Tara went somewhere and the rest that followed was ???. I theororize that Sunday was spent setting up his 'false alibi'.

I keep wondering about his alleged visit to the 'old friend' on Lower River Road early Sunday afternoon. It appears to be a very rural area and, if true, I kind of wonder what it was that caused him to be out in that area in the first place on a Sunday afternoon without his family with him. The person who told me this said that the 'old friend', who had not see HD for years, thought that it was 'strange' of him to show up unexpected like he did and that it could not have possibly have been a case of "I was just in the neighborhood."

Just something else to think about .......

JMHO

Odette, I AM thinking about this! And WHAT IF, there was a situation where TG was to meet someone out that way on Sunday. I've been trying to remember where I read that her car was seen driving through town early Sunday afternoon. Perhaps after the fact, the car was returned. But that means there is an accomplice. And I for the life of me I can't imagine someone NOT coming forward. JMHO.

[Brainstorm]

Considering this quote by Brainstorm came immediately behind Dixinites post where she was speaking about me, i'm assuming Brainstorm was speaking of me also, so let me make something clear.


Brainstorm, I have never sent anyone a threatening private message EVER. That's not my style and I have no reason to threaten anyone here for any reason. If you want to give your thoughts on anyone or anything, it's a public board and you are certainly welcome to do so, BUT, do not come to this board and LIE about me. I have never sent any threatening private messages period. Please feel free to back up what you say about that and I encourage anyone to POST anything threatening I've ever sent anyone in any private message. This cannot be done because nothing of the sort exists. Now, if somebody TOLD you I sent them something of that nature, they are a liar, plainly put. You should ask why you were lied to. I cannot be any more clear than that.

I am not certain, but I feel relatively sure that Freshwater can access private messages between members. Suspecting that is possible, I stand firm in my statement above knowing the administrator possibly can see what is sent in private and could certainly verify that you are 100% WRONG!

I'm not involved in this case in any other way except to read and care. I have absolutely no reason on God's green earth to feel the need to threaten or LIE about anyone or anything. If somebody has or somebody does, then ask why that could be? I'm not on a team, I'm not in anybody's back pocket, I don't run shams on the players, I don't lie and i don't threaten but>>>>

I will call you out if you tell a bold faced lie about me.

Did you not read any further? I made a mistake.Simple.That post,as I stated was meant for Mannequin.Why are you so Furious?

[Results]

Odette, I AM thinking about this! And WHAT IF, there was a situation where TG was to meet someone out that way on Sunday. I've been trying to remember where I read that her car was seen driving through town early Sunday afternoon. Perhaps after the fact, the car was returned. But that means there is an accomplice. And I for the life of me I can't imagine someone NOT coming forward. JMHO.

I know your not talking to me but someone had said that HD was driving a car that was very similiar to Tara's and that it could have been mistaken for her car. That is why I said it would be very important what HD was driving when he stopped at his friends house and who knows he could have been in a black truck for all we know but fortunately there is someone that knows for sure what he was driving when he stopped by his friends house that he hasn't seen in years. JMHO

[odette]

Is this Lower River Road also known as just River Road? North of Fitzgeraldtowards Bowens Mill and east towards Jacksonville, Ga.?
Or is this closer to the Hawinsville area?

My post on this thread (one page back I think) has a Google map link where I explain where Lower River Road is. The person who told me this said the friend lives far from town, on the river in Hawkinsville. Road 230 I was told.

Post #2773
Today, 01:06 AM

JMHO

[dixinites]

ITA and I hope this friend on the river has talked to LE. This friend can tell us what vehicle he was driving. This friend is more important then he thinks he is. JMHO

This would be very pertinent information, IMO, and I, too, hope they shared it with the GBI.

BTW, thank you, Odette, for sharing the map information with me, it was very helpful.

It appears that the whole road is in close proximity to the river (thus the name, duh), and I'm sure there are lots of access roads along it. I'm guessing many of them are not frequently used, which wouldn't escape the notice of someone "visiting a friend". Having grown up in Hawkinsville and being male, I'm also thinking it would be a safe bet that HD has gone fishing in the area as well, at some time in his life. Wonder if his friend would know of any spots in particular...

JMSpeculation

[Results]

Odette/Dix/Results,

I am not familiar with area at all. Is there any possiblity that a body could be hidden there and not found after all this time? Is it a hunting area? Is it a popular fising hole? How well travelled, visited is it? JMHO.

Merrick, we know that it is the backway from Hawkinsville to Ocilla and Ocilla to Hawkinsville. There are roads that turn off that don't seem to be traveled at all and there are wells that are near this friends house and wells in that area besides the river itself. Hope that helps you. This is what I have learned from the research of this road as well as asking others about this road. This clearly would not be the way to take if you were so concern trying to get to Ocilla to check on someone. JMHO

[dixinites]

Odette/Dix/Results,

I am not familiar with area at all. Is there any possiblity that a body could be hidden there and not found after all this time? Is it a hunting area? Is it a popular fising hole? How well travelled, visited is it? JMHO.

I'm only familiar with the general area, having travelled along Hwy. 280, which is nearby, and I can only point out that there are alot of trees and ponds and what I would label "swamps". Odette gave me the map link earlier and it appears to be pretty remote to me. We have similar areas here in my part of the state, and there aren't many houses around. Some of the few that are there are used as weekend and recreational homes (mostly fishing), and some as full-time residences. I'm assuming that would be the case in this area.

It would be easy, if there had not been alot of recent rain in the area, to zip in and out of one of the access roads unnoticed, some of which are just "trails" and can be a mile or so in length.

Like I said, I don't know about this area specifically, but that's how it looked on the map to me. I'm sure local people would know alot more specifics. JMO.

[odette]

But, it might be the route you would take if you didn't want to be seen and had to get rid of something that you didn't want to be found? Right? JMHO.

I agree and you have to remember that HD doesn't live in Hawkinsville either, he lives in Perry and would travel a completely different route to reach Ocilla.

JMHO

[dixinites]

I agree and you have to remember that HD doesn't live in Hawkinsville either, he lives in Perry and would travel a completely different route to reach Ocilla.

JMHO

Did anyone ever find out where he was when "watching the game with friends" Saturday nite? Could that have been in Hawkinsville? Could he have had a few beers and spent the night? (Sound like a good alibi for the Mrs.)

He could have gotten to this road from any location, but somehow this just clicks for me.

[odette]

Did anyone ever find out where he was when "watching the game with friends" Saturday nite? Could that have been in Hawkinsville? Could he have had a few beers and spent the night? (Sound like a good alibi for the Mrs.)

He could have gotten to this road from any location, but somehow this just clicks for me.

Sorry dixi .. I have never heard where HD actually watched this ballgame on the Saturday night, only that he watched it "with friends". I have wondered if perhaps he told his wife that he wouldn't be home that night as he'd had a few beers and then set out for Ocilla'.

JMHO

[Its just me]

I found the post I read that refers to the white dodge actually being gray.

Its just me
Member Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Over the Hill, Ga.
Posts: 479

Quote:
:
Originally posted by cbcrime
Okay the grey dodge car was from another forum and was told to the poster and states that was what HD drove on that Monday. So we have the dodge and car - but different color. I'll do some more research.

Quote:
Originally posted by Its just me
cb. I was told by source from Irwin County that HD was at the Police Station in a grey dodge car on Monday. I will call my source again to make sure. I just did not ask a lot of questions about the car because it was not the important part of our conversation. Any help for the locals will be appreciated. We need to narrow down fact from fiction.

__________________
All of my posts are my own opinions or ideas.
TTYL
Kat

For the record....I don't have any information on a white dodge car. My source told me that HD was driving a grey dodge car on Monday and it was parked at the police station. The description given (and one was) compared nothing similiar to Tara's car. I am not a car person. I buy a new one and drive it until it is no longer safe or dependable and then I buy another granny car/van so I am dumb as dirt when it comes to names of cars but I do understand the difference between a sports car and a regular type car and the car at the police station was not a sports like car. Hope this helps. BTW I love all of you and have lived many years and it is amazing the money I was able to spend on other things and save because I did not spend it buying new cars. Everyone to their own but I like to pass on things I learned during my years on this earth. IJM

[fsbiii]

IMO, he was probably driving a grey Dodge Intrepid, and it was government issued. Popcorn told someone a Dodge Stealth, and I attribute that to a buttery slip of the fingers on the keyboard. Probably unintentional, just a failure to be solid on the details (imagine that). He then told someone else it was a Dodge Intrepid, IIRC. Truth or fiction? You be the judge.

[Results]

But, it might be the route you would take if you didn't want to be seen and had to get rid of something that you didn't want to be found? Right? JMHO.

I agree. I believe he stopped at the "friends house" in fear that he might be seen and to explain why he took that route! Clever if you ask me. Only problem I see is evidently Tara was not in enough danger at that time. I guess that came much later. We have to remember that HD had it pretty easy then the rest of the POI in the beginning. When the cellphone call placed him at Tara's and people started pointing the finger at him according to people that know him he changed. My biggest thing is IF everything was up and up, innocent as he says, then why break so many habits that weekend. Doesn't add up and looks like he is hiding something and I firmly believe that he is. JMHO

[Its just me]

IMO, he was probably driving a grey Dodge Intrepid, and it was government issued. Popcorn told someone a Dodge Stealth, and I attribute that to a buttery slip of the fingers on the keyboard. Probably unintentional, just a failure to be solid on the details (imagine that). He then told someone else it was a Dodge Intrepid, IIRC. Truth or fiction? You be the judge.

Thank you kind sir for helping an ole lady out. "Interpid" is the model described to me. I could not remember the name and hated to call again because I have already asked twice. LOL How is that for brains.

[Brainstorm]

:biggrin:
thanks for admitting you insinuated the wrong person in your post.
if I had made such a mistake, i would immediately APOLOGIZE to that person instead of casually minimizing the gravity of my mistake.

furious, no.
setting the record straight; YES.
have a great day~

:patriot:

Kath, listen honey, if you had read for just a few more seconds you would have realized that I had CORRECTED my mistake,immediately !!!! Oh,okay,so the edit time had ran out but I IMMEDIATELY posted,what I label as,a correction post.I even said sorry or something to that effect,gave an EXCUSE,anyway
IMHO you become UNGLUED,hit that quote botton and give this b***** a piece of MY MIND, and I DO MEAN IMMEDIATELY !!!!! You used all the gusto that could be mustered up with color,cuties,etc. You expressed yourself well(in your eyes only).
Now on the other hand,I would like to explain my style so you may refer to it in the future,my M O
I'm simple.
If letters are big,then I meant that word to stand out,
I tend to hit that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! key,so when I do that you know the b is meaning that S***
Some days I feel serious
""""""""""""""" I """"""" sad and worried,about this case and the heartbreak it has caused SO SO MANY PEOPle
Sometimes,I ROTFLMAO,but the truth is I'm not literally down there,Ba,I mean I wouldn't be able to get up.Have to call for help.(Please call that tall,handsome,strong LE) what was his name? barney?
and also, it hasn't help my poster(you know-my a*s) either.
That's about it.
Now I just have one thing to say kath.Didn't you feel like a complete ,NO<NO<NO,I don't want No misunderstanding here So........
I WOULD HAVE FELT LIKE A STUPID FOOL if I had wasted all that time and energy with that post ,then read another couuple sentences (you know, to see what the discussion is about,then joining in? )
I need some of that medicine that could make me feel like that.Express my self with such Gusto. !!!!!!!!!!
Hell, I bet you just like me,in some ways, I'll admit I have to keep my dictionary right here and sometimes when I am ,(you know-into the case and want to get it out ) there I makes lots of typing and grammatical mistakes.
SO FORGIVE ME IN ADVANCE PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and

and now,once again FMIAP and this is not directed at you kath, IIRC and I stand to be corrected,but has there been any more news about when LE is coming out to talk to me and k,not that was Manny.?
JMVHO
I'm so so sorry,Kath.You too have a good day or whatever.

[Lizbeth]

Is this Lower River Road also known as just River Road? North of Fitzgeraldtowards Bowens Mill and east towards Jacksonville, Ga.?
Or is this closer to the Hawinsville area?


River Road and Lower River Road are different highways. Hwy 129 - Hawkinsville to Abbeville is River Road. LOWER River Road is hwy 230 in Dodge County and paralles Ocumulgee River going south. # 129 goes straight through Abbeville to Fitzgerald etc. #230 runs along the river, goes into Hwy 87, and 87 runs into hwy 280 almost at Ocmulgee river bridge at Abbeville.
So Lower River Road is one way to go, only a bit longer route. Also, there are not a lot of houses directly along hwy 230, but there are lots of houses, fish camps, etc along the river on the Dodge County side. GA DOT map link below:
http://gis.state.ga.us/emaps/dotmaps/StateMap2002.pdf

[Brainstorm]

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT INFORMATION ,Lizbeth. That really cleared up mt thoughts .I remember the area between Fitz. going up(or out)east towards Jacsonville,a loop back across to Bowens mill.One of those was called or is called River Road.Long long ago ther was a place called moonlight hill(I swear I did not go to moonlight hill-I was very protected) but you know a dirt road,people go to Spoon I think they called it?Lots of places going in and out to the river in that area IMO, IIRC
Welcome,by the way Lizbeth.I just noticed it was your first post, I was so busy reading your content. But welcome and jump right in.!!!

[Lizbeth]

Thanks, Brainstorm. I have been here before, just been a while. I don't usually post much, as there is not alot of new info around. But when I saw your inquiry about those areas, well, I am a little familiar with them. Just wanted to help out.

[Results]

River Road and Lower River Road are different highways. Hwy 129 - Hawkinsville to Abbeville is River Road. LOWER River Road is hwy 230 in Dodge County and paralles Ocumulgee River going south. # 129 goes straight through Abbeville to Fitzgerald etc. #230 runs along the river, goes into Hwy 87, and 87 runs into hwy 280 almost at Ocmulgee river bridge at Abbeville.
So Lower River Road is one way to go, only a bit longer route. Also, there are not a lot of houses directly along hwy 230, but there are lots of houses, fish camps, etc along the river on the Dodge County side. GA DOT map link below:
http://gis.state.ga.us/emaps/dotmaps/StateMap2002.pdf

Very interesting. How long would this route, Lower River Road, take if coming from Perry? TIA

[Lizbeth]

Based on computer program I have here- we use it for our trucks in forestry business- Perry to Ocilla through Hawkinsville then hwy 230 -Lower River Rd.- 88 miles & approx. 2.2 hours. The other route- Perry to Hawkinsville then hwy 129 through Abbeville to Ocilla- 84 miles & approx 1.9 hours. But, this program is based on loaded truck miles, so exact miles and times will vary a small degree. Hope this helps!
This is a very roundabout way to get from point A to point C, in my opinion!
The scenic route perhaps?!

[odette]

River Road and Lower River Road are different highways. Hwy 129 - Hawkinsville to Abbeville is River Road. LOWER River Road is hwy 230 in Dodge County and paralles Ocumulgee River going south. # 129 goes straight through Abbeville to Fitzgerald etc. #230 runs along the river, goes into Hwy 87, and 87 runs into hwy 280 almost at Ocmulgee river bridge at Abbeville.
So Lower River Road is one way to go, only a bit longer route. Also, there are not a lot of houses directly along hwy 230, but there are lots of houses, fish camps, etc along the river on the Dodge County side. GA DOT map link below:
http://gis.state.ga.us/emaps/dotmaps/StateMap2002.pdf

Thank you Lisbeth for your help .. I can't get that pdf file to download but I have been looking at other maps and from what I can make out ... if someone was travelling from Ocilla towards H'ville and they wanted to get onto Lower River Road, would they turn off at Ocmulgee river bridge at Abbeville to get onto it?.TIA

JMHO

[dixinites]

Sorry dixi .. I have never heard where HD actually watched this ballgame on the Saturday night, only that he watched it "with friends". I have wondered if perhaps he told his wife that he wouldn't be home that night as he'd had a few beers and then set out for Ocilla'.

JMHO

Odette, do you still have contact with the person who gave you this information? I'm guessing you've known this info for a while and didn't want to "tip" anyone off in case there was a future search, etc. The vehicle HD was driving that day would be good to know, along with the time of his visit to the friends house. Is this something that the friend has already been asked?

If HD picked Tara up for a rendevous or a discussion away from her house (just in case Mrs.D. was suspicious), that would be a very good location for them to go for whatever they were planning to do that evening. It would also be a good location for hiding someone if things got "ugly". There probably wouldn't be much DNA left in his vehicle if he strangled her or hit her with something outside the car/truck, and he would be in a good location to hide her without having to drive around with a body in his vehicle looking for another site.

Out of everything I've read on this board, this "dropping by" a friend's house that he hadn't seen in years, is the most significant (other than the 12:15 AM phone call). I think it's a huge missing peice. JMO.

[Lizbeth]

Hi Lizbeth and welcome. Is this route primarily used by truckers? Do you happen to know how well travelled it is? TIA.


Hey Merrick. This is a county maintained road, just gravel and not very wide. THere are alot of farmland along this road, so you will have your normal 'country' traffic. Being log trucks, tractors, and normal traffic. As I said, this road runs parall (WHERE is SPELL CHECK when you need it?!) to the river. Going south (from Hwkvill toward hwy 87) there are many dirt roads leading to the river. There is a public boat landing along there, plus many people live on the river. There is also a new subdivision going up in that area beside the river. Very exclusive, from what i have heard but I have not been there yet. And there are the normal 'beside the river camp houses", privately owned.

[Brainstorm]

Thank you Lisbeth for your help .. I can't get that pdf file to download but I have been looking at other maps and from what I can make out ... if someone was travelling from Ocilla towards H'ville and they wanted to get onto Lower River Road, would they turn off at Ocmulgee river bridge at Abbeville to get onto it?.TIA

JMHO
If you had been in Ocilla late sat.night/early hrs.Sun.morning/whatever the timeframe was--something BAD happened,Taras' died. Instead of zipping out to the interstate,where you YOU are highly recognizable,you more than likely go out from Fitzgerald north towards Abbeville. Before you get to Abbev.ther used to be a place called Bowens Mill.
I thought the county road that dead ends at that little community was called river rd. Sorry about the confusion(on my part)Its probably got a name,number and all,its been 40 yrs.!!!!

[Lizbeth]

Thank you Lisbeth for your help .. I can't get that pdf file to download but I have been looking at other maps and from what I can make out ... if someone was travelling from Ocilla towards H'ville and they wanted to get onto Lower River Road, would they turn off at Ocmulgee river bridge at Abbeville to get onto it?.TIA

JMHO

Sorry about the map. I will try to find another one that will d/l easier. Normally, from Ocilla to Hwkvill, the route would be a straight shot on 129. Fitzgerald to abbeville to Hwkvill, all on 129. To go Lower RIver rd, when you get to Abbeville, you would turn at the redlight onto Hwy 280, go across the river bridge and go another 1.5 to 2 miles, turn onto hwy 87, go just a few miles and hwy 230 veers off to left. UNLESS I had something in particular to see or do on hwy 230, it is just extra turns and stops. That is my opinion.

[Lizbeth]

If you had been in Ocilla late sat.night/early hrs.Sun.morning/whatever the timeframe was--something BAD happened,Taras' died. Instead of zipping out to the interstate,where you YOU are highly recognizable,you more than likely go out from Fitzgerald north towards Abbeville. Before you get to Abbev.ther used to be a place called Bowens Mill.
I thought the county road that dead ends at that little community was called river rd. Sorry about the confusion(on my part)Its probably got a name,number and all,its been 40 yrs.!!!!

There are probably a dozen or more "RIVER ROADS" around. You gotta figure that the Ocmulgee River in this immediate area is surrounded by several counties and everyone of these counties are gonna have a road called 'somethng' river road. LOL! Just another true part of being from the south! In particular, the counties bordered by the river are BenHill (Fitzgerald) Telfair (Jacksonville-hwy 117 to Rhine),Dodge (hwy 230), Wilcox (Abbeville) and Pulaski (Hawkinsville). So, yeah, there are gonna be many many 'river roads'!

[Brainstorm]

Exactly, even like the ones going down to a place called red bluff?popular place back int the day.
JMO

[odette]

Sorry about the map. I will try to find another one that will d/l easier. Normally, from Ocilla to Hwkvill, the route would be a straight shot on 129. Fitzgerald to abbeville to Hwkvill, all on 129. To go Lower RIver rd, when you get to Abbeville, you would turn at the redlight onto Hwy 280, go across the river bridge and go another 1.5 to 2 miles, turn onto hwy 87, go just a few miles and hwy 230 veers off to left. UNLESS I had something in particular to see or do on hwy 230, it is just extra turns and stops. That is my opinion.

Lizbeth .. Thank you .. From looking at maps of that area I see exactly what you mean when you say, "UNLESS you had something particular to see or do on hwy 230, it is just extra turns and stops" and a narrow gravel road at that.

JMHO

[dixinites]

There are probably a dozen or more "RIVER ROADS" around. You gotta figure that the Ocmulgee River in this immediate area is surrounded by several counties and everyone of these counties are gonna have a road called 'somethng' river road. LOL! Just another true part of being from the south! In particular, the counties bordered by the river are BenHill (Fitzgerald) Telfair (Jacksonville-hwy 117 to Rhine),Dodge (hwy 230), Wilcox (Abbeville) and Pulaski (Hawkinsville). So, yeah, there are gonna be many many 'river roads'!

TY, Lizbeth for following up on this. The information on the counties was one of my previous questions. So it looks like you're saying that LOWER River Rd or Hwy 230, is primarily in Dodge Co? My guess is that the chances of this area already being searched are slim to none. I wonder if there is anything we could do to rectify that situation? I had mentioned on another thread that I think hunting clubs would be alot of help in that department. I have searched online for any organizations/associations connected with these clubs, but havent been able to pull anything up (granted, I'm not too good at uncovering online info).

[dixinites]

Why not contact the Tara Center and pass along the tip? JMHO.

That is a good suggestion. Do you think they would act on it, considering their leanings regarding the POI?

[dixinites]

BTW, I also got a bad vibe from Lizbeth's info regarding development in the area...as in foundations being poured...

[Brainstorm]

BTW, I also got a bad vibe from Lizbeth's info regarding development in the area...as in foundations being poured...

The river,the gators ,the current is much more likely.Everybody that's ever been thru so. ga. knows this, espically good ole boys (& girls.)
JMHO

[dixinites]

It would be useful to know when they broke ground and started digging and pouring concrete, that's for sure. JMHO.

That's the most frustrating thing to me in this case, being Jane Q. Public, and not knowing how to obtain all this info. There are many people close to the area and with brains bigger than mine that could follow up on alot of this. Some of them post here, and some are connected with those who post here.

It's useful for us to all exchange information, observations and theories regarding the circumstances around Tara's disappearance and who might have harmed her in the most ultimate way. But to what end? We can't do anything with that information, even if we have it all figured out, EXCEPT by using it to narrow down these possibilities and coming up with likely places to look for her. THEN the perpetrator can be brought to justice.

That's the big frustration for me in all of this, and I'm sure for LE, as well.

My plea for those who even THINK they know something is to take it to the GBI. I'm sure they get some "off the wall" stuff all the time...your one little puzzle piece just might be the one they need.

[odette]

It would be useful to know when they broke ground and started digging and pouring concrete, that's for sure. JMHO.

Merrick .. there is quite a lot of information at this link regarding the new development in this area.

Ocmulgee Banks
http://www.huntfun.com/contactus.php

BTW dixi .. the vehicle HD was driving, when he allegedly visited his 'old friend' that Sunday afternoon, was never mentioned.

JMHO

[Lizbeth]

It would be useful to know when they broke ground and started digging and pouring concrete, that's for sure. JMHO.

I will see what I can find out on this. L

[mooloo]

That road that you speak of is called River Road....and is still there....

It goes over to the highway to Jacksonville, GA....maybe that one is 319 or 441, I am not sure...

If you had been in Ocilla late sat.night/early hrs.Sun.morning/whatever the timeframe was--something BAD happened,Taras' died. Instead of zipping out to the interstate,where you YOU are highly recognizable,you more than likely go out from Fitzgerald north towards Abbeville. Before you get to Abbev.ther used to be a place called Bowens Mill.
I thought the county road that dead ends at that little community was called river rd. Sorry about the confusion(on my part)Its probably got a name,number and all,its been 40 yrs.!!!!

[mooloo]

Speaking of the Tara Center, there was a letter to the editor in last weeks' Ocilla Star about The Tara Center and how everyone should chip in a help with the phone bill. This person, can't remember name/location, but it was far away, said that locals should chip in and send money to keep it operational. Can somebody post that article? The paper is off-line for some updating and I don't have access to a scanner.

Why not contact the Tara Center and pass along the tip? JMHO.

[Lizbeth]

Merrick .. there is quite a lot of information at this link regarding the new development in this area.

Ocmulgee Banks
http://www.huntfun.com/contactus.php

BTW dixi .. the vehicle HD was driving, when he allegedly visited his 'old friend' that Sunday afternoon, was never mentioned.

JMHO

That's it.

[concernedperson]

Merrick .. there is quite a lot of information at this link regarding the new development in this area.

Ocmulgee Banks
http://www.huntfun.com/contactus.php

BTW dixi .. the vehicle HD was driving, when he allegedly visited his 'old friend' that Sunday afternoon, was never mentioned.

JMHO

Reading over the literature indicates that, although lots/homes are available, it isn't necessarily a family subdivison that one would be used to seeing. It seems more like a hunting preserve type of environment.To own land there does not mean you have to build on it.

With that said it appears to be very, very rural. I wonder if surveyors have been active in the area since Tara went missing. The plats look drawn but this could have been done way before she disappeared.

Maybe this would be a good approach for a new search. Ask Ocmulgee Banks Association for assistance/permission and utilize all the hunters registered within the association.

[Lizbeth]

That road that you speak of is called River Road....and is still there....

It goes over to the highway to Jacksonville, GA....maybe that one is 319 or 441, I am not sure...

Hwy 107 comes out of Fitzgerald and runs to hwy 441, hang a left on 441 and cross the Ocmulgee River bridge and goes into Jax GA. (The counties here at river Ben Hill, Coffee and Telfair.) The redlight in Jacksonville GA is intersection of 441 & state hwy 117. 117 runs from Rhine to Lumber City Ga along the river. The area on the river side of 117 is all Wildlife Management Area.

[Brainstorm]

A tremendous help,Liz.keep posting.I used to know someone who roamed the rivers around that area
from the red bluff place to the jax river bridge., and also from the county landing to the bridge..(or am I getting the areas confused or overlapped?)
It can be narrowed down IMO extremely now.IMO
Wish I could still roam those rivers.IMO

[Brainstorm]

Speaking of the Tara Center, there was a letter to the editor in last weeks' Ocilla Star about The Tara Center and how everyone should chip in a help with the phone bill. This person, can't remember name/location, but it was far away, said that locals should chip in and send money to keep it operational. Can somebody post that article? The paper is off-line for some updating and I don't have access to a scanner.

WELL I am just schocked.AG,LG OR her dear protective friend HD DID NOT
EVEN pay a phone bill or whatever else needed to be paid to keep the search on ? I mean honestly?

[dixinites]

Reading over the literature indicates that, although lots/homes are available, it isn't necessarily a family subdivison that one would be used to seeing. It seems more like a hunting preserve type of environment.To own land there does not mean you have to build on it.

With that said it appears to be very, very rural. I wonder if surveyors have been active in the area since Tara went missing. The plats look drawn but this could have been done way before she disappeared.

Maybe this would be a good approach for a new search. Ask Ocmulgee Banks Association for assistance/permission and utilize all the hunters registered within the association.

See what I mean about the "bigger brain"? Does anyone know someone associated with this group to ask? Should a local person person stop by their office? If you think a phone call or letter would not be "brushed off", I would be willing to give it a shot...I just think a concerned local might illicit a better response. Any suggestions anyone? (Just hope our POI isn't a member, lol.)

[fsbiii]

Probably Canada or Alabama.

Speaking of the Tara Center, there was a letter to the editor in last weeks' Ocilla Star about The Tara Center and how everyone should chip in a help with the phone bill. This person, can't remember name/location, but it was far away, said that locals should chip in and send money to keep it operational. Can somebody post that article? The paper is off-line for some updating and I don't have access to a scanner.

[dixinites]

And BTW, welcome Lizbeth...WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN???? Very helpful info.

[dixinites]

SNIP>Maybe this would be a good approach for a new search. Ask Ocmulgee Banks Association for assistance/permission and utilize all the hunters registered within the association.<SNIP

I just looked over the OBA site and it ocurred to me that there might be too much activity (showing property, clearing, etc) for someone to consider it a viable location for hiding something...but there's alot more property along that road.

I'm still thinking about it...

[fsbiii]

Wasn't the clay and the bark a load of hogwash? JMOO... IIRC.

[Brainstorm]

Wasn't the clay and the bark a load of hogwash? JMOO... IIRC.

And where is the clay and bark right now?
MOO
assuming it wasn't hogwah? Dr. G, AG or LE ?

[dixinites]

Speaking of the Tara Center, there was a letter to the editor in last weeks' Ocilla Star about The Tara Center and how everyone should chip in a help with the phone bill. This person, can't remember name/location, but it was far away, said that locals should chip in and send money to keep it operational. Can somebody post that article? The paper is off-line for some updating and I don't have access to a scanner.

If you find that link, I'd like to read it. IIRC, there was an exchange once on one of the Tara boards about someone having a fundraiser. When questioned about what the "funds" were raised were for, it was stated that it was for expenses for the Tara Center. The other person asked whether or not the Tara Center had applied for non-profit status. Does anyone remember this?

The suggestion was made at that point to put the phone in a friend or family member's home, thus eliminating the "office expense". Is the center still there?

And you're right BStorm, how ridiculous to think a family member could not afford another phone line to monitor any tips coming in. Puhleez.

[fsbiii]

IIRC, Dr. G was discussing the clay and the bark before he even got to town. He was being told about it by someone else or something. There's no telling what it was, where it came from, or if it ever was, period. IMO, he was just throwing out all kinds of crumbs purporting to show his scientific excellence in advance of his arrival...and it all amounted to less than crumbs in the long run. JMOO.

[dixinites]

And where is the clay and bark right now?
MOO
assuming it wasn't hogwah? Dr. G, AG or LE ?

Well, JMO FWIW, I don't think the car left the carport after Tara got home from the BBQ...could be wrong.

[One2Snoop]

Well, JMO FWIW, I don't think the car left the carport after Tara got home from the BBQ...could be wrong.

ITA Dixi :beer:

[dixinites]

I believe the terms used were "hogwash" and "crumbs".

[fsbiii]

Whatever you say, 'mandu. I won't belittle or bully you with much of a reply, ever, so don't bother questioning me in the future.

:hat:

[concernedperson]

Well, JMO FWIW, I don't think the car left the carport after Tara got home from the BBQ...could be wrong.

I don't either. I also don't believe Tara was hurt in her home but lured out/picked up by the perp.

[fsbiii]

Because I don't really like you, and your past few days on here give me a very strange vibe. File that somewhere in a pile if you'd like.

That was not a very helpful response. If you know something is false, why don't you correct me instead of slamming your shell shut and crying 'leave me alone.'

[Lizbeth]

Well, JMO FWIW, I don't think the car left the carport after Tara got home from the BBQ...could be wrong.

Well think of the logistics here, regarding the bark and clay. First of all the car is a 'very low to the ground sporty type car'. If that car went on a dirt road or into wooded area, there would probably have been alot more than bark on it. In most wooded areas, pig-path type roads there would be weeds, scrub brush and more. As for the clay, what about the day Tara had to pull over and wait for someone to come get her? SHe would have pulled over on the shoulder of the road, where sometimes there is dirt, clay or whatever. Especially if there had been road construction recently.

[Lizbeth]

sorry,. i forgot to finish my post. Therefore, the clay & bark could have been on Tara's car for several days BEFORE she disappeared. And if she was so distraught, emotional or whatever during that time, she probably didn't give a flip about the car.

Now i'm finished...

[fsbiii]

Good points, Lizbeth. And also, Dr. G announced this "planned analysis" of the supposed bark and clay MONTHS after Tara went missing. The car was ran thru a carwash THE WEEK she disappeared. The whole bark and clay thing was just a farce, IMO. I think it was just some of his wacky grandstanding. A sick foreshadowing of things to come, actually, unfortunately, IMO.

[The R]

Was it?

I knew you posted that you felt the part about MH and SF being linked to tg's car was hogwash, as do I, but do you dispute the clay and bark too?

But really, it's just your opinion that it wasn't true, right? So, it very well COULD be, it's just that you feel the source of the info is what makes it crap?


Even your earlier post stated that there was a 'tiny' piece of clay and a pine bark 'fragment' found. I think to consider it worthwhile evidence in a case would be grasping at straws probably. I live near a large city and have a paved drive but could find 'tiny' clay bits on my car pretty easily. IMO clay found on Tara's car wouldn't have much forensic value....JMO

R

[mooloo]

My thoughts exactly. I believe a family member could cough up the $$ for a single line phone with an answering machine...or put the thing in their home? I don't have a clue if anyone goes to the Tara Center anymore. Or why they keep the office, unless it is rent-free? I have no clue about these things.

There is not a link...the paper is off-line....maybe someone local can get it and scan it....if not, I will be glad to key it in when I see it again.
If you find that link, I'd like to read it. IIRC, there was an exchange once on one of the Tara boards about someone having a fundraiser. When questioned about what the "funds" were raised were for, it was stated that it was for expenses for the Tara Center. The other person asked whether or not the Tara Center had applied for non-profit status. Does anyone remember this?

The suggestion was made at that point to put the phone in a friend or family member's home, thus eliminating the "office expense". Is the center still there?

And you're right BStorm, how ridiculous to think a family member could not afford another phone line to monitor any tips coming in. Puhleez.

[Lizbeth]

Even your earlier post stated that there was a 'tiny' piece of clay and a pine bark 'fragment' found. I think to consider it worthwhile evidence in a case would be grasping at straws probably. I live near a large city and have a paved drive but could find 'tiny' clay bits on my car pretty easily. IMO clay found on Tara's car wouldn't have much forensic value....JMO

R

You are correct,R. I live on a dirt road myself. As for clay, bark & even roadkill sometimes, are found on my car. In the 1/2 mile of dirt road, I go through a sandy spot & up a clay hill before reaching my driveway. Sometimes a dead pine tree will fall in the road, and someone before me will move it, leaving pieces of it in the road. And yes, God help us, some of this same stuff can get on our cars and also be found in the 'city'. When I pull out on the highway, I am slinging mud, dirt clay whatever on the highway.
So Suzy Q comes along where I just pulled out onto the highway and gets dirt, clay etc on her tires and car. Does that mean she went on a dirt road?!

So, I agree. A piece of dirt that may be 2 cm x 3cm ain't much to go on.

[One2Snoop]

I don't know if Godwin was the person who orginally found the clay and bark - but he examined her car IIRC what - 5 months after the fact? Surely the car had been driven - like to GBI headquarters and Mr. P drove it to and from the car wash.

Like FSBiii said I think the clay and bark is a non-issue (hogwash). JMO

[Results]

So, I agree. A piece of dirt that may be 2 cm x 3cm ain't much to go on.

Is that what was on her car the 2 cm x 3 cm? I have never heard how big it was or little it was. TIA

[Brainstorm]

You are correct,R. I live on a dirt road myself. As for clay, bark & even roadkill sometimes, are found on my car. In the 1/2 mile of dirt road, I go through a sandy spot & up a clay hill before reaching my driveway. Sometimes a dead pine tree will fall in the road, and someone before me will move it, leaving pieces of it in the road. And yes, God help us, some of this same stuff can get on our cars and also be found in the 'city'. When I pull out on the highway, I am slinging mud, dirt clay whatever on the highway.
So Suzy Q comes along where I just pulled out onto the highway and gets dirt, clay etc on her tires and car. Does that mean she went on a dirt road?!

So, I agree. A piece of dirt that may be 2 cm x 3cm ain't much to go on.

ITA liz,even turning off the pavement onto an unpaved drive way,small mudpuddles. And squash the rain and all that bs for that wkend. How many times on any given day you run in to an area with pivots running and get showered?and we worried about that right now ?
I swear I've had pieces of dirt that size all over my cabin.They should just go to So Ga,just about anywhere in so ga and then come back and we'll talk about that.I swear maybe we should take that topic over to the Sunday Morn. thread?And get back on the subject at hand ?
Not you, LIZ,NOT YOU AT ALL
FMIAP for whoever brought up the hog wash and clay bs.

[One2Snoop]

Is that what was on her car the 2 cm x 3 cm? I have never heard how big it was or little it was. TIA

I think Lizbeth was just using that as an example - I've never seen a size mentioned before other than the word "tiny chunk and a fragment of pine bark"

[Lizbeth]

I think Lizbeth was just using that as an example - I've never seen a size mentioned before other than the word "tiny chunk and a fragment of pine bark"

I didn't mean to mislead anyone. I was being sarcastic, by using those sizes, are they are very very tiny. I have never read or heard any size of the materials mentioned. My apologies to all.

[Lizbeth]

I do believe the 'clay&bark' issue has been beaten & drug around long enough. Shall we return to the title of this thread and discuss the men in this case?

[One2Snoop]

I do believe the 'clay&bark' issue has been beaten & drug around long enough. Shall we return to the title of this thread and discuss the men in this case?

Sounds good to me! :beer:

[Brainstorm]

The only one we can think of left to check out is HD.Just like the above post,we've beaten and drug ,or chewed and spit out everybody else that we can think of !!!
JMHO

[concernedperson]

The only one we can think of left to check out is HD.Just like the above post,we've beaten and drug ,or chewed and spit out everybody else that we can think of !!!
JMHO

I have a sneaking feeling there are a few more. It is just that no info is forthcoming at all. The wagons are circled around a few and rightly so. They were closest as far as anyone knew. But, others are there. Tara dated several guys from all over Georgia. Just not much is known and no one is willing to share.

[Brainstorm]

All I can say is if I was a guy(which I am not) and had even ever called TG on the phone much less dated her and I knew I had nothing to do with her coming to harm then I would not stop till the other POI were cleared !!!!!!
Now it is strange that the very ones that started this whole mess is basically hiding in plain sight,now and why?

[dixinites]

My thoughts exactly. I believe a family member could cough up the $$ for a single line phone with an answering machine...or put the thing in their home? I don't have a clue if anyone goes to the Tara Center anymore. Or why they keep the office, unless it is rent-free? I have no clue about these things.

There is not a link...the paper is off-line....maybe someone local can get it and scan it....if not, I will be glad to key it in when I see it again.

Thanks Moo, let me know if you get it...

[dixinites]

I have a sneaking feeling there are a few more. It is just that no info is forthcoming at all. The wagons are circled around a few and rightly so. They were closest as far as anyone knew. But, others are there. Tara dated several guys from all over Georgia. Just not much is known and no one is willing to share.

The fact that there were probably others only serve to reinforce my feelings that HD was involved. I don't think that would be something he would be very happy about. JMO.

[Brainstorm]

I didn't mean to mislead anyone. I was being sarcastic, by using those sizes, are they are very very tiny. I have never read or heard any size of the materials mentioned. My apologies to all.

You're not the only one that uses a bit of sarcasm in posting.We get a warning when it gets out of hand,believe me.and thats a good thing.
JMOO

[Brainstorm]

Considering this quote by Brainstorm came immediately behind Dixinites post where she was speaking about me, i'm assuming Brainstorm was speaking of me also, so let me make something clear.


Brainstorm, I have never sent anyone a threatening private message EVER. That's not my style and I have no reason to threaten anyone here for any reason. If you want to give your thoughts on anyone or anything, it's a public board and you are certainly welcome to do so, BUT, do not come to this board and LIE about me. I have never sent any threatening private messages period. Please feel free to back up what you say about that and I encourage anyone to POST anything threatening I've ever sent anyone in any private message. This cannot be done because nothing of the sort exists. Now, if somebody TOLD you I sent them something of that nature, they are a liar, plainly put. You should ask why you were lied to. I cannot be any more clear than that.

I am not certain, but I feel relatively sure that Freshwater can access private messages between members. Suspecting that is possible, I stand firm in my statement above knowing the administrator possibly can see what is sent in private and could certainly verify that you are 100% WRONG!

I'm not involved in this case in any other way except to read and care. I have absolutely no reason on God's green earth to feel the need to threaten or LIE about anyone or anything. If somebody has or somebody does, then ask why that could be? I'm not on a team, I'm not in anybody's back pocket, I don't run shams on the players, I don't lie and i don't threaten but>>>>

I will call you out if you tell a bold faced lie about me.


BUMPING FOR LIZBETH :::::::::::::: Dear Liz, your sweet kind sarcasm was so delicate and fragile that it went undeteced by some.You see around here we don't hold back !!!!!!
The above is only a sample.......

So welcome to the boards.

[Results]

You seem to know this area well. Thank you for all your information. This area are there swamps, wells? Anything is possible but I just don't see digging a grave and burying her....as I said anything is possible. If you knew this road and area really good do you think it is possible that there are places that a body could not be found. Thanks if you can help on this. This of course would be your opinion I do realize that but you seem to know the area. TIA

To the rest of the members I want you all to think about something. It has been said HD went there Saturday night then visits a friend on this road that Sunday which is way out of his route to Ocilla he is at Tara's again either 6 or 7 PM but the card is in the door in daylight hours. He had to have been there before 6 or 7 PM to put the card in the door. Now he comes back at 12:15 AM makes a call to FG. I would bet he did not drive the same vehicle each time it would have been noticed more if he had. If he went that many times I truly believe Ocilla would remember his vehicle there that many times so how many vehicles did he drive and where are those vehicles? See the problem I have is most people in Ocilla knew what he drove but noone saw him but they saw the card in the door. He had to be driving something he wasn't recognized in. Please just think about it! It doesn't matter who you think harmed her or not this isn't about being right or wrong. This is about how did HD get into Ocilla that many times without being spotted? I respect everyone here (MOST EVERYONE) give me your best shot! TIA and as always JMHO.

[Lizbeth]

You seem to know this area well. Thank you for all your information. This area are there swamps, wells? Anything is possible but I just don't see digging a grave and burying her....as I said anything is possible. If you knew this road and area really good do you think it is possible that there are places that a body could not be found. Thanks if you can help on this. This of course would be your opinion I do realize that but you seem to know the area. TIA

To the rest of the members I want you all to think about something. It has been said HD went there Saturday night then visits a friend on this road that Sunday which is way out of his route to Ocilla he is at Tara's again either 6 or 7 PM but the card is in the door in daylight hours. He had to have been there before 6 or 7 PM to put the card in the door. Now he comes back at 12:15 AM makes a call to FG. I would bet he did not drive the same vehicle each time it would have been noticed more if he had. If he went that many times I truly believe Ocilla would remember his vehicle there that many times so how many vehicles did he drive and where are those vehicles? See the problem I have is most people in Ocilla knew what he drove but noone saw him but they saw the card in the door. He had to be driving something he wasn't recognized in. Please just think about it! It doesn't matter who you think harmed her or not this isn't about being right or wrong. This is about how did HD get into Ocilla that many times without being spotted? I respect everyone here (MOST EVERYONE) give me your best shot! TIA and as always JMHO.


Results. I do know some of the areas well, but not all. I grew up in an area between Jacksonville GA & Rhine GA, on hwy 117. We only lived about 2 miles from the river. It has been many many years since i lived there, & now live in Dodge County. And in my job, I do not travel these areas that much, but use maps daily finding all different roads;ie;,dirt roads county roads, etc.
When i was young, my daddy taught me lots about the river and swamp areas, how much they can change in short period of time, and so on. The river current will change due to trees falling in the river, sand bars forming and so on. In rural areas, especially around rivers, there are many many places that anything can be hidden, disposed of or whatever you want to call it. I am NOT an expert by any means. Anyone who grew up / lives here can tell you the same thing about rural ga. Hope this helps.:)

[Results]

Results. I do know some of the areas well, but not all. I grew up in an area between Jacksonville GA & Rhine GA, on hwy 117. We only lived about 2 miles from the river. It has been many many years since i lived there, & now live in Dodge County. And in my job, I do not travel these areas that much, but use maps daily finding all different roads;ie;,dirt roads county roads, etc.
When i was young, my daddy taught me lots about the river and swamp areas, how much they can change in short period of time, and so on. The river current will change due to trees falling in the river, sand bars forming and so on. In rural areas, especially around rivers, there are many many places that anything can be hidden, disposed of or whatever you want to call it. I am NOT an expert by any means. Anyone who grew up / lives here can tell you the same thing about rural ga. Hope this helps.:)

Thank you and it does help.

[concernedperson]

Results. I do know some of the areas well, but not all. I grew up in an area between Jacksonville GA & Rhine GA, on hwy 117. We only lived about 2 miles from the river. It has been many many years since i lived there, & now live in Dodge County. And in my job, I do not travel these areas that much, but use maps daily finding all different roads;ie;,dirt roads county roads, etc.
When i was young, my daddy taught me lots about the river and swamp areas, how much they can change in short period of time, and so on. The river current will change due to trees falling in the river, sand bars forming and so on. In rural areas, especially around rivers, there are many many places that anything can be hidden, disposed of or whatever you want to call it. I am NOT an expert by any means. Anyone who grew up / lives here can tell you the same thing about rural ga. Hope this helps.:)

Lisbeth, thanks for the info. Do you know if there are a lot of abandoned wells in this rural area? Irwin County seems to have a lot of them and I was wondering if this was the norm in S. Georgia.

[Its just me]

You seem to know this area well. Thank you for all your information. This area are there swamps, wells? Anything is possible but I just don't see digging a grave and burying her....as I said anything is possible. If you knew this road and area really good do you think it is possible that there are places that a body could not be found. Thanks if you can help on this. This of course would be your opinion I do realize that but you seem to know the area. TIA

To the rest of the members I want you all to think about something. It has been said HD went there Saturday night then visits a friend on this road that Sunday which is way out of his route to Ocilla he is at Tara's again either 6 or 7 PM but the card is in the door in daylight hours. He had to have been there before 6 or 7 PM to put the card in the door. Now he comes back at 12:15 AM makes a call to FG. I would bet he did not drive the same vehicle each time it would have been noticed more if he had. If he went that many times I truly believe Ocilla would remember his vehicle there that many times so how many vehicles did he drive and where are those vehicles? See the problem I have is most people in Ocilla knew what he drove but noone saw him but they saw the card in the door. He had to be driving something he wasn't recognized in. Please just think about it! It doesn't matter who you think harmed her or not this isn't about being right or wrong. This is about how did HD get into Ocilla that many times without being spotted? I respect everyone here (MOST EVERYONE) give me your best shot! TIA and as always JMHO.

If HD or anyone went to Tara's Saturday night after 12 they could get in an out without being seen but there is more activity on Sat night than Sunday night but I have been through Ocilla coming home many times around 12:00 12:30 and you may not even see a car especially on a Sunday night. Ocilla has two major routes to get in an out and the intersection is down town Ocilla. Hwy 32 is East and West. Hwy 319/129 is North and South. Hwy 32 goes east to Douglas and West to the interstate with a Y split for 319 on the west side which goes to Tifton. There is a route close to the Y split (you would turn right just before the split) which would take you back to Fitzgerald. (for the record do anyone remember someone posting about someone hearing a person scream. I can not remember much about the scream but it is possible it could have been on this road that takes you back to Fitzgerald. If I was going to Tara's from any direction and did not want to be seen I would take the back streets as I came into town and my chance of anyone noticing me (unless I was a regular) would be slim. The service for Tara was on a Sunday afternoon and I arrived in Ocilla early and had time to find Tara's house and while driving around her neighborhood I may have passed 2 cars after I got off the main roads. I dont remember seening any of the neighbors outside but it is possible. I dont remember. The point I am making is Ocilla is not a busy Town on Sunday afternoon and almost shut down after midnight. I know of 3 7/11 type stores and a grocery store that are open on Sunday and all four are on the main roads I described above. I dont know of another business that is open on Sunday. The neighbors (mr.and mrs P) being gone certainly was a plus for anyone not being seen Sunday afternoon going to Tara's. Just some thoughts.

[Lizbeth]

Lisbeth, thanks for the info. Do you know if there are a lot of abandoned wells in this rural area? Irwin County seems to have a lot of them and I was wondering if this was the norm in S. Georgia.


I'm not absolutely sure, but think of it this way. As old homesteads were/are abandoned by family members that have moved away or died out, the old wells, if not covered over, would still be 'open'. Either covered over by old lumber that has rotted with time, or even concrete type covers that may be sunken in, slipped off and so on. Example is my family home. No one lives in the house now, but the well was covered with a circular concrete cover that my daddy made. It is still there as we still keep up the property. But years from now, who knows. The culvert part of the original well could just decay from years of elements and become an 'open hole' in the ground. Just driving around these rural areas, you can see where an old home used to be by the way trees are growing. And if you went out and wandered around you would probably come up on an old well. True, some may be filled in with dirt, etc, but some may be a 'trap' so to speak.

[Lizbeth]

If HD or anyone went to Tara's Saturday night after 12 they could get in an out without being seen but there is more activity on Sat night than Sunday night but I have been through Ocilla coming home many times around 12:00 12:30 and you may not even see a car especially on a Sunday night. Ocilla has two major routes to get in an out and the intersection is down town Ocilla. Hwy 32 is East and West. Hwy 319/129 is North and South. Hwy 32 goes east to Douglas and West to the interstate with a Y split for 319 on the west side which goes to Tifton. There is a route close to the Y split (you would turn right just before the split) which would take you back to Fitzgerald. (for the record do anyone remember someone posting about someone hearing a person scream. I can not remember much about the scream but it is possible it could have been on this road that takes you back to Fitzgerald. If I was going to Tara's from any direction and did not want to be seen I would take the back streets as I came into town and my chance of anyone noticing me (unless I was a regular) would be slim. The service for Tara was on a Sunday afternoon and I arrived in Ocilla early and had time to find Tara's house and while driving around her neighborhood I may have passed 2 cars after I got off the main roads. I dont remember seening any of the neighbors outside but it is possible. I dont remember. The point I am making is Ocilla is not a busy Town on Sunday afternoon and almost shut down after midnight. I know of 3 7/11 type stores and a grocery store that are open on Sunday and all four are on the main roads I described above. I dont know of another business that is open on Sunday. The neighbors (mr.and mrs P) being gone certainly was a plus for anyone not being seen Sunday afternoon going to Tara's. Just some thoughts.

Yes mam, these very small towns around are like this. After midnight nothing goes on that is good, in my opinion.

[concernedperson]

I'm not absolutely sure, but think of it this way. As old homesteads were/are abandoned by family members that have moved away or died out, the old wells, if not covered over, would still be 'open'. Either covered over by old lumber that has rotted with time, or even concrete type covers that may be sunken in, slipped off and so on. Example is my family home. No one lives in the house now, but the well was covered with a circular concrete cover that my daddy made. It is still there as we still keep up the property. But years from now, who knows. The culvert part of the original well could just decay from years of elements and become an 'open hole' in the ground. Just driving around these rural areas, you can see where an old home used to be by the way trees are growing. And if you went out and wandered around you would probably come up on an old well. True, some may be filled in with dirt, etc, but some may be a 'trap' so to speak.

I get a creepy feeling that an old well located on abandoned homesteads would be a serious consideration for dumping a body. Especially if no one was keeping it up and the perp was familiar with that fact. Just think how contained it would be....no animals scattering bones for hunters to fall upon.

There is no perfect crime but this could be a perfect burial place.

[One2Snoop]

To the rest of the members I want you all to think about something. It has been said HD went there Saturday night then visits a friend on this road that Sunday which is way out of his route to Ocilla he is at Tara's again either 6 or 7 PM but the card is in the door in daylight hours. He had to have been there before 6 or 7 PM to put the card in the door. Now he comes back at 12:15 AM makes a call to FG. I would bet he did not drive the same vehicle each time it would have been noticed more if he had. If he went that many times I truly believe Ocilla would remember his vehicle there that many times so how many vehicles did he drive and where are those vehicles? See the problem I have is most people in Ocilla knew what he drove but noone saw him but they saw the card in the door. He had to be driving something he wasn't recognized in. Please just think about it! It doesn't matter who you think harmed her or not this isn't about being right or wrong. This is about how did HD get into Ocilla that many times without being spotted? I respect everyone here (MOST EVERYONE) give me your best shot! TIA and as always JMHO.

Several things come to mind - first being if Tara's car was actually seen driving around town that Sunday - who was driving it? What better way to go undetected? (Altho I don't think her car had been driven since Saturday night).
Secondly, this friend that HD visited on Sunday, does this friend own a truck and did HD borrow it? Awhile ago I mentioned I thought maybe the black truck had been borrowed from someone. Maybe HD used the ruse that he was having car trouble or something? Just some thoughts.

[Brainstorm]

I'm not absolutely sure, but think of it this way. As old homesteads were/are abandoned by family members that have moved away or died out, the old wells, if not covered over, would still be 'open'. Either covered over by old lumber that has rotted with time, or even concrete type covers that may be sunken in, slipped off and so on. Example is my family home. No one lives in the house now, but the well was covered with a circular concrete cover that my daddy made. It is still there as we still keep up the property. But years from now, who knows. The culvert part of the original well could just decay from years of elements and become an 'open hole' in the ground. Just driving around these rural areas, you can see where an old home used to be by the way trees are growing. And if you went out and wandered around you would probably come up on an old well. True, some may be filled in with dirt, etc, but some may be a 'trap' so to speak.

This discription by Lizbeth is a very accurate account of those old home places.Just remember,it is also commom.Theres' probably dozens and dozens in the south ga. counties involved.
JMHO

[fsbiii]

This happened in the county I live in back in the mid 80's. A guy went missing, foul play was suspected. No clues were found. Months later, a local handy man who did well/pump work was on some old farm property that was being sold. The prospective buyers were gonna put in new pivots & irrigation, IIRC. The buyers had him check out the old well on the property for that reason prior to buying it. The missing man's body was found inside. The well was covered with sheets of scrap wood and cement blocks. No one was ever arrested for the still unsolved murder. The location of the well was probably 50 feet off an old county paved road. It wasn't really "hidden" and many people traveled by it every day.

I get a creepy feeling that an old well located on abandoned homesteads would be a serious consideration for dumping a body. Especially if no one was keeping it up and the perp was familiar with that fact. Just think how contained it would be....no animals scattering bones for hunters to fall upon.

There is no perfect crime but this could be a perfect burial place.

[Brainstorm]

This happened in the county I live in back in the mid 80's. A guy went missing, foul play was suspected. No clues were found. Months later, a local handy man who did well/pump work was on some old farm property that was being sold. The prospective buyers were gonna put in new pivots & irrigation, IIRC. The buyers had him check out the old well on the property for that reason prior to buying it. The missing man's body was found inside. The well was covered with sheets of scrap wood and cement blocks. No one was ever arrested for the still unsolved murder. The location of the well was probably 50 feet off an old county paved road. It wasn't really "hidden" and many people traveled by it every day.

Exactly,fsbiii,just feet of the roads,paved and dirt.The more I thought about this the less I think TG was dumped in the river(my earlier posts-I was thinking gators and wild animals).Whoever harmed Tara was thinking only of himself and escaping revelation at that point. It was much mor likely he simply "dumped" her in one of those.
My question is and I'm sorry,but how long would the well-smell ?
JHHO

[One2Snoop]

Exactly,fsbiii,just feet of the roads,paved and dirt.The more I thought about this the less I think TG was dumped in the river(my earlier posts-I was thinking gators and wild animals).Whoever harmed Tara was thinking only of himself and escaping revelation at that point. It was much mor likely he simply "dumped" her in one of those.
My question is and I'm sorry,but how long would the well-smell ?
JHHO

How long does it take for a human body to decompose?

--- Oliver Hager
Waukegan, U.S.A.

Jamie Downs , Alabama Department of Forensic Sciences, replies:

The rate depends on the environment and the state of the body at the time of death. As a rule of thumb, a body exposed to open air will decay the same amount in one day as a body in water in one week and a body buried underground in one month. Heat speeds decay; cold slows it down. Rigor mortis (the stiffening of muscles) and livor mortis (pooling of blood) take place within 12 hours of death. Bacteria in the intestine multiply rapidly as soon as metabolism ceases. Many factors determine how long it takes the body to decompose from there. Is the body in sun or shade? Is it summer or winter? Are there carnivores or insects around? Almost immediately, blowflies can feed on an exposed body and lay eggs in it. Bodies buried deep in the ground are protected from flying insects and warm temperatures, so they tend to decay relatively slowly. A body in a typical casket burial can take decades to decay down to the skeleton if embalmed properly, or as little as a year if not. But such decay can happen in a week if the body is outside, if it is exposed to carnivores, or if it has open wounds. Conversely, bodies can last centuries in a very hot and dry environment, which dries out the body, or in a cold and wet setting, where body fat turns into a form of soap that acts as a protective covering.

http://www.discover.com/ask-discover?qid=52

If you look at the case of Taylor Behl there wasn't much left of her once her body was discovered a month later.

[fsbiii]

Not sure. I presume it would depend on whether the well was empty or had water in it; the type of cover on it; how deep it was; etc. I do recall the local story, and when the guy removed the wood & blocks from the top of the well, he almost passed out from the smell. IIRC, the body had been there 1-2 months only.

Exactly,fsbiii,just feet of the roads,paved and dirt.The more I thought about this the less I think TG was dumped in the river(my earlier posts-I was thinking gators and wild animals).Whoever harmed Tara was thinking only of himself and escaping revelation at that point. It was much mor likely he simply "dumped" her in one of those.
My question is and I'm sorry,but how long would the well-smell ?
JHHO

[Brainstorm]

Not sure. I presume it would depend on whether the well was empty or had water in it; the type of cover on it; how deep it was; etc. I do recall the local story, and when the guy removed the wood & blocks from the top of the well, he almost passed out from the smell. IIRC, the body had been there 1-2 months only.
I know the feeling and isn't so ga well water approx.56 degress on an average? Many of these wells still have wter and like liz, said, being covered,etc. its going to be IMO COLD AND WET and still identifiable.

[Lizbeth]

Another thing to consider with these wells- all of the old type wells discussed here were/are 'shallow' wells. In recent years with all of the farming irrigations going and less rainfall, the water table has dropped. So it is a good possibility that most of these old wells have little or no water in them.

[Results]

Several things come to mind - first being if Tara's car was actually seen driving around town that Sunday - who was driving it? What better way to go undetected? (Altho I don't think her car had been driven since Saturday night).
Secondly, this friend that HD visited on Sunday, does this friend own a truck and did HD borrow it? Awhile ago I mentioned I thought maybe the black truck had been borrowed from someone. Maybe HD used the ruse that he was having car trouble or something? Just some thoughts.

That is some very good thinking there O2P! Thank you!

[Brainstorm]

Another thing to consider with these wells- all of the old type wells discussed here were/are 'shallow' wells. In recent years with all of the farming irrigations going and less rainfall, the water table has dropped. So it is a good possibility that most of these old wells have little or no water in them.

But IIRC some of these maybe 25 or 30 ft deep? I'm not lying.Some of those things cave in deep down inside and the urban legend was "so and so had a cave-in and I swear you could have turned a team of mules in that thing !!!"
Thses can be extremely dangerous spots.But IT needs to be done.

[concernedperson]

Another thing to consider with these wells- all of the old type wells discussed here were/are 'shallow' wells. In recent years with all of the farming irrigations going and less rainfall, the water table has dropped. So it is a good possibility that most of these old wells have little or no water in them.

Since I know nothing about wells....what do you consider shallow. As in 20 or less feet or some other measurement that is normal for a well?

[dixinites]

But IIRC some of these maybe 25 or 30 ft deep? I'm not lying.Some of those things cave in deep down inside and the urban legend was "so and so had a cave-in and I swear you could have turned a team of mules in that thing !!!"
Thses can be extremely dangerous spots.But IT needs to be done.

At least a well is a stationary location and can be searched...I hope this is the case.

You mentioned yesterday about the river currents and gators, and the river being being the most logical choice. If a body is placed in a river and hasn't been discovered in over a year, then most likely it never will. If this is what has happened, I hope the horror of it haunts the perpetrator for the rest of their days.

[Lizbeth]

You are both correct. I would say 25 to 35 or 40 ' possible. Just guessing. They are called shallow, but that does not mean like 2 or 3 '. It would probably have depended on the location of the well. And sea levels are different areas. Here in this county, we are approx 300' above sea level. The closer to the coast you are, the lower the sea level. Here a well maybe 35 feet deep before hitting water, but if you were to dig a well in say, Jesup GA., it may only have to be 15 or 20 feet before hitting water. I don't know the sea levels of any other areas nearby, but I would assume :) near the same as my area here. Back in those days, i reckon they just dug until they hit water and that was it. The wells now days are all 'deep' wells, some going as much as 90-100 feet deep, but they are not 'open'. Ok, have i confused yall enough? :confused:

[concernedperson]

You are both correct. I would say 25 to 35 or 40 ' possible. Just guessing. They are called shallow, but that does not mean like 2 or 3 '. It would probably have depended on the location of the well. And sea levels are different areas. Here in this county, we are approx 300' above sea level. The closer to the coast you are, the lower the sea level. Here a well maybe 35 feet deep before hitting water, but if you were to dig a well in say, Jesup GA., it may only have to be 15 or 20 feet before hitting water. I don't know the sea levels of any other areas nearby, but I would assume :) near the same as my area here. Back in those days, i reckon they just dug until they hit water and that was it. The wells now days are all 'deep' wells, some going as much as 90-100 feet deep, but they are not 'open'. Ok, have i confused yall enough? :confused:

Not confused...appreciative for the answers. The deep wells sound like oil rig drilling wells. Method done with a pipes and drill bits and transported by pipeline.

The "shallow" wells are still plenty deep enough to hide a body for a long time. Considering they are open wells wouldn't prohibit hiding a body, as looking down that far in a darkened place one wouldn't be able to see a thing.

There would not be a smell now and more than likely not for a long time. The decomposition process has long been completed.

[Brainstorm]

No offense,but you can see down in some of them fairly well.With a minimum I dare say of safety gear.Mostly a rope and good flashlight.
JMHO

[Brainstorm]

Not confused...appreciative for the answers. The deep wells sound like oil rig drilling wells. Method done with a pipes and drill bits and transported by pipeline.

The "shallow" wells are still plenty deep enough to hide a body for a long time. Considering they are open wells wouldn't prohibit hiding a body, as looking down that far in a darkened place one wouldn't be able to see a thing.

There would not be a smell now and more than likely not for a long time. The decomposition process has long been completed.

Your last sentence,"the decompsition process has long been completed."
I don't understand given all those varairables,light,temperature,etc. I mean this is gorey but in one article somewhere above it talked about a buttery fat build up IIRC ?
JMOO

[concernedperson]

Your last sentence,"the decompsition process has long been completed."
I don't understand given all those varairables,light,temperature,etc. I mean this is gorey but in one article somewhere above it talked about a buttery fat build up IIRC ?
JMOO

They are talking about adipocere...a soapy/waxy looking substance that covers a body that has been submerged in cool water. Like Laci Peterson's torso.

The weather is hot in s. Georgia's summers and so the water is not that of San Francisco Bay, which is cool all the time and moreso in winter and spring.

Tara has been gone for 15 months and I can't imagine any soft tissue remaining. What would be remaining is large bones and from that DNA is possible. Also, if the site had not been disturbed there would be fibers, hair etc. a lot of forensics to gather info on her killer.

[One2Snoop]

They are talking about adipocere...a soapy/waxy looking substance that covers a body that has been submerged in cool water. Like Laci Peterson's torso.

The weather is hot in s. Georgia's summers and so the water is not that of San Francisco Bay, which is cool all the time and moreso in winter and spring.

Tara has been gone for 15 months and I can't imagine any soft tissue remaining. What would be remaining is large bones and from that DNA is possible. Also, if the site had not been disturbed there would be fibers, hair etc. a lot of forensics to gather info on her killer.

Thanks CP - thats the word I was looking for and perfect example re: LP.

Sad to say but I can't imagine there'd be much left of her by this time either.

[Lizbeth]

This has NO relation to this case, but just thought it very ironic that I saw this since we had been discussing wells and decided to post the link, just for information about wells. I repeat this has NOTHING TO DO WITH TARA.


http://www.wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=5973025

[odette]

If HD or anyone went to Tara's Saturday night after 12 they could get in an out without being seen but there is more activity on Sat night than Sunday night but I have been through Ocilla coming home many times around 12:00 12:30 and you may not even see a car especially on a Sunday night. Ocilla has two major routes to get in an out and the intersection is down town Ocilla. Hwy 32 is East and West. Hwy 319/129 is North and South. Hwy 32 goes east to Douglas and West to the interstate with a Y split for 319 on the west side which goes to Tifton. There is a route close to the Y split (you would turn right just before the split) which would take you back to Fitzgerald. (for the record do anyone remember someone posting about someone hearing a person scream. I can not remember much about the scream but it is possible it could have been on this road that takes you back to Fitzgerald. If I was going to Tara's from any direction and did not want to be seen I would take the back streets as I came into town and my chance of anyone noticing me (unless I was a regular) would be slim. The service for Tara was on a Sunday afternoon and I arrived in Ocilla early and had time to find Tara's house and while driving around her neighborhood I may have passed 2 cars after I got off the main roads. I dont remember seening any of the neighbors outside but it is possible. I dont remember. The point I am making is Ocilla is not a busy Town on Sunday afternoon and almost shut down after midnight. I know of 3 7/11 type stores and a grocery store that are open on Sunday and all four are on the main roads I described above. I dont know of another business that is open on Sunday. The neighbors (mr.and mrs P) being gone certainly was a plus for anyone not being seen Sunday afternoon going to Tara's. Just some thoughts.

IJM I have in my notes some info about the scream which was heard ...

I have often wondered about this terrible scream, which was heard by a man living on Old Fitzgerald Highway, on Sunday 23 October at around 3:30 am. He called into Hayward Fowler's local station "Tifton Talks" on Monday night 24 October, (IIRC The Fun Channel) really freaked out because he had not realized that someone was missing and that the scream was so loud and horrific that it sent chills up his spine. He said that the scream was coming from a moving vehicle heading towards Fitzgerald. Someone told me, 'back in the day', that the man who heard the scream relayed to a friend that it sounded like a woman "screaming for her life". He said that he did not call LE at the time but I believe that he did report it later to the GBI.

Old Fitzgerald Highway leads to Fitzgerald from Ocilla via the Trade School, then from Fitzgerald to Abbeville to Hawkinsville. Abbeville is where one turns off to get onto Lower River Road.

Was it Tara screaming?. .. This is something which has always haunted me since the beginning of this case.

JMHO

[concernedperson]

IJM I have in my notes some info about the scream which was heard ...

I have often wondered about this terrible scream, which was heard by a man living on Old Fitzgerald Highway, on Sunday 23 October at around 3:30 am. He called into Hayward Fowler's local station "Tifton Talks" on Monday night 24 October, (IIRC The Fun Channel) really freaked out because he had not realized that someone was missing and that the scream was so loud and horrific that it sent chills up his spine. He said that the scream was coming from a moving vehicle heading towards Fitzgerald. Someone told me, 'back in the day', that the man who heard the scream relayed to a friend that it sounded like a woman "screaming for her life". He said that he did not call LE at the time but I believe that he did report it later to the GBI.

Old Fitzgerald Highway leads to Fitzgerald from Ocilla via the Trade School, then from Fitzgerald to Abbeville to Hawkinsville. Abbeville is where one turns off to get onto Lower River Road.

Was it Tara screaming?. .. This is something which has always haunted me since the beginning of this case.

JMHO

I vaguely remember the scream but didn't know the details you provided. That is just eerie. I wonder?

[Brainstorm]

I just don't see HD riding around thru that neighborhood with a screaming Tara on board.JMHO

[One2Snoop]

I just don't see HD riding around thru that neighborhood with a screaming Tara on board.JMHO

It's possible he handcuffed her to the inside the car and thats why she was screaming. JMO

[One2Snoop]

I vaguely remember the scream but didn't know the details you provided. That is just eerie. I wonder?

I also remember the scream but didn't know those details - or I just don't remember them. It does make you wonder.

[Letree]

As I see it, the big problem with this case is the lack of real evidence and forensics. We've only got some reports of what Tara and a few other people did or said. The description of the inside of her home doesn't say much. If it does to you, then I hope you never show up at my house. Many/most of you seem to think that HD killed Tara, but I can't quite follow the evidence to that conclusion. I can see your point that he is a sob for cheating on his wife (if thats what he was doing) but thats all I see. His actions that weekend, and what he said on the phone doesn't give me any indication that he killed her. On the contrary, it sounds as if he really cared for her and wanted to see her to talk about a problem she was having. His actions are only suspect because she disappeared during the same timeframe. If Tara was taken aginst her will, and I consider that a possiblity, I'm waiting for more evidence before I point a finger. Since everyone tends to come up with a personal theory, mine is that Tara voluntarily went into seclusion with the help of some unknown person. I have a theory about who that person is, but I won't get into that. For those that think I'm trying to take up for HD, forget it, I'm not. This is about Tara, not HD. imo

[Brainstorm]

As I see it, the big problem with this case is the lack of real evidence and forensics. We've only got some reports of what Tara and a few other people did or said. The description of the inside of her home doesn't say much. If it does to you, then I hope you never show up at my house. Many/most of you seem to think that HD killed Tara, but I can't quite follow the evidence to that conclusion. I can see your point that he is a sob for cheating on his wife (if thats what he was doing) but thats all I see. His actions that weekend, and what he said on the phone doesn't give me any indication that he killed her. On the contrary, it sounds as if he really cared for her and wanted to see her to talk about a problem she was having. His actions are only suspect because she disappeared during the same timeframe. If Tara was taken aginst her will, and I consider that a possiblity, I'm waiting for more evidence before I point a finger. Since everyone tends to come up with a personal theory, mine is that Tara voluntarily went into seclusion with the help of some unknown person. I have a theory about who that person is, but I won't get into that. For those that think I'm trying to take up for HD, forget it, I'm not. This is about Tara, not HD. imo


Letree, that's what we do.The last few days have shown you that.Not all of us agree and it is a free country. I find that as long as we half way behave we can all have a say about just about ANY subject. IMO
So lets have your theory,if you please TIA

ps,it cannot no way be about TG without including HD and vice-versa IMO

[Letree]

Letree, that's what we do.The last few days have shown you that.Not all of us agree and it is a free country. I find that as long as we half way behave we can all have a say about just about ANY subject. IMO
So lets have your theory,if you please TIA

ps,it cannot no way be about TG without including HD and vice-versa IMO

I totally agree with you Brainstorm. But what exactly do you mean by "that's what we do? I was not saying that anyone was doing anything that I disapproved of. I was only stating my opinion.

[Brainstorm]

I totally agree with you Brainstorm. But what exactly do you mean by "that's what we do? I was not saying that anyone was doing anything that I disapproved of. I was only stating my opinion.

You said in your post that you had a theory IIRC ? Thats all I meant.We share our theories here.That's all
JMOO

[Letree]

Letree,

Don't want to answer for Brainstorm but I took her post to mean, that's we do, post here for Tara, any and all opinions. Nothing more, nothing less. JMHO.

Thank you for setting me straight. I guess that I tied "that what we do" to her last sentence, and came up with "That what we do, discuss Tara and HD and vice-versa."

[odette]

Odette,

Hi. How far was this from Tara's home?

TIA,
Merrick

I don't know the actual address of the man who heard the scream, only that he lived on Old Fitzgerald Highway. I think that the correct name for this road is Vo Tech Road/Perry House Road, ie Hwy 259. This is not the same road as Hwy 129, ie Fitzgerald/Ocilla Hwy.

Hopefully a local person can help out here please. :)

JMHO

[Letree]

You said in your post that you had a theory IIRC ? Thats all I meant.We share our theories here.That's all
JMOO

If I were to tell you what I suspect, it could only cause trouble to someone that may have nothing to do with Tara's disappearance. So, I won't.

[concernedperson]

Thank you for setting me straight. I guess that I tied "that what we do" to her last sentence, and came up with "That what we do, discuss Tara and HD and vice-versa."

So, what are your thoughts on where Tara is and who aided her?

I am not set in stone on my opinion and would love to hear yours. I agree HD acted suspicious but the phone calls professing his love all day and to an extreme seem so stupid to me. He is a cop and would know his butt would be explaining this to kingdom come. I also don't think it is a very good CYA attempt but this is just me.

[mooloo]

By car, with twists and turns, maybe 12 blocks. It is not close to her house in Ocilla measurements, Atlanta measurements--maybe so.

I would be surprised if anyone these days could hear someone screaming for her life with all the rolled up windows and a/c going on. Back in the day...with no a/c, maybe so.

But, I have no idea..I am just guessing here.

I don't know the actual address of the man who heard the scream, only that he lived on Old Fitzgerald Highway. I think that the correct name for this road is Vo Tech Road/Perry House Road, ie Hwy 259. This is not the same road as Hwy 129, ie Fitzgerald/Ocilla Hwy.

Hopefully a local person can help out here please. :)

JMHO

[fsbiii]

Additional online info re: the scream from Huff's blog, 10/2005:

"On a call in local show a man called monday night really in shock because he heard a womans scream so loud from his house (near where she lives), and he thought it was teenagers. It was at 3:30 in the morning and he got mad because it woke him up (…) But after he heard the story he contacted the GBI. So I am not sure what has happened with that. I figure if she left with her keys and purse she left with someone she knew…"

I don't know the actual address of the man who heard the scream, only that he lived on Old Fitzgerald Highway. I think that the correct name for this road is Vo Tech Road/Perry House Road, ie Hwy 259. This is not the same road as Hwy 129, ie Fitzgerald/Ocilla Hwy.

Hopefully a local person can help out here please. :)

JMHO

[fsbiii]

I don't think this overheard scream, if true, was near Tara's actual house.

I wonder how come the Ps never mentioned anything about it. It would seem they live much closer and would have just been getting back to sleep after FG's call, IMO.

Is it possible the HD was in Tara's house when he called FG and not in her yard?

JMHO.

[Brainstorm]

If I were to tell you what I suspect, it could only cause trouble to someone that may have nothing to do with Tara's disappearance. So, I won't.

Think about the TROUBLE it has already caused.
When I joined here, I didn't say much but I watched and listened and learned and have formed an opinion,which I haven't changed yet.As we find out more details all our opinions could change.
How do you know that even part of your theory could be what we need.So, if you're wrong?
Ask MH, AV & etc...........
JMHO

[Lindsey]

I wonder how come the Ps never mentioned anything about it. It would seem they live much closer and would have just been getting back to sleep after FG's call, IMO.

Is it possible the HD was in Tara's house when he called FG and not in her yard?

JMHO.

The scream was supposedly heard Saturday night/Sunday morning.
FG called the P's Sunday night/Monday morning.

[Lindsey]

Thanks for straightening that out for me. I was confused:o

No problem. It's hard to keep it all strait sometimes. :)

---------------------------------------------
Charter Member of the Long Haul Group

[fsbiii]

It just comes naturally to some, right, Lindsey?

No problem. It's hard to keep it all strait sometimes. :)

---------------------------------------------
Charter Member of the Long Haul Group

[Letree]

So, what are your thoughts on where Tara is and who aided her?

I am not set in stone on my opinion and would love to hear yours. I agree HD acted suspicious but the phone calls professing his love all day and to an extreme seem so stupid to me. He is a cop and would know his butt would be explaining this to kingdom come. I also don't think it is a very good CYA attempt but this is just me.

At the time he made those calls, I don't think he had any thoughts of how it would look if she just left without telling anyone. Maybe he didn't know what she was about to do. Perhaps she had called crying, and said something like "I can't go on, I can't face my shame, I'm going away, goodbye". Something real dramatic like that. It didn't occur to him that he would look like a killer if she went away. Maybe he knows where she went, maybe he don't. I can't figure out if the GBI would tell the world where she went if he told them. Also, if HD didn't know who she went with, then of course he couldn't tell the GBI, and they would definitely look hard at him. And we would be in the position we are now. imho

[Letree]

Think about the TROUBLE it has already caused.
When I joined here, I didn't say much but I watched and listened and learned and have formed an opinion,which I haven't changed yet.As we find out more details all our opinions could change.
How do you know that even part of your theory could be what we need.So, if you're wrong?
Ask MH, AV & etc...........
JMHO

What I mean't was that I can't be posting names and places of where she might be, whether I'm correct or not. imo

[One2Snoop]

What I mean't was that I can't be posting names and places of where she might be, whether I'm correct or not. imo


Ahhhhhh come on Letree! ;) *LOL* Most of us use initials and approximate locations anyhow. We'd really love to hear your thoughts. TIA :seeya:

[Brainstorm]

We've all posted names and places here. None of us know wheter we're correct or no0t. It is all speculation. I don't think you have any ideas at all.If you had an idea or opinion or theory you would post it instead of playing beg me beg me. I digress.

[Letree]

Ahhhhhh come on Letree! ;) *LOL* Most of us use initials and approximate locations anyhow. We'd really love to hear your thoughts. TIA :seeya:

Yeah, and then we could all drive to her hideout and ask to see the baby.

[Letree]

We've all posted names and places here. None of us know wheter we're correct or no0t. It is all speculation. I don't think you have any ideas at all.If you had an idea or opinion or theory you would post it instead of playing beg me beg me. I digress.

Maybe I would if I could have the reward money. Or at least half of it. The downside would be that it would piss TG off. imo

[concernedperson]

Maybe I would if I could have the reward money. Or at least half of it. The downside would be that it would piss TG off. imo

So, Tara went off and had a baby and is in a hideout? The father (assuming someone could be sure) is the one who helped her in this move. This isn't the 50's or 60's where this is very plausible but I understand this is your opinion.

Possible Tara could have been pregnant but my info is she didn't want children. So, a modern woman has choices not giving up her whole life and career to live in a hideout with a born out of wedlock baby. So, this father helped but wouldn't want to make an "honest" woman out of her. Now, we have this whole family group hidden.

Can't buy this but thanks for your opinion.

[mooloo]

Nope...nowhere near it. And through many houses, streets, trees, shrubs, etc. Maybe a mile or more? (I cannot judge distance by looking, folks..)



I don't think this overheard scream, if true, was near Tara's actual house.

[mooloo]

ahhh...so now you are just haggling over the price?

Are you a friend of TG's? Acquaintance? Work with her? or her "accomplice?"?

Maybe I would if I could have the reward money. Or at least half of it. The downside would be that it would piss TG off. imo

[Letree]

So, Tara went off and had a baby and is in a hideout? The father (assuming someone could be sure) is the one who helped her in this move. This isn't the 50's or 60's where this is very plausible but I understand this is your opinion.

Possible Tara could have been pregnant but my info is she didn't want children. So, a modern woman has choices not giving up her whole life and career to live in a hideout with a born out of wedlock baby. So, this father helped but wouldn't want to make an "honest" woman out of her. Now, we have this whole family group hidden.

Can't buy this but thanks for your opinion.

In my theory, the father didn't help and is not with her. imo

[mooloo]

What if? What if Tara did run away and had an accomplice? I am thinking neither of them have broken any laws by leaving/assisting....

They would just go on with their normal lives?

ahhh...so now you are just haggling over the price?

Are you a friend of TG's? Acquaintance? Work with her? or her "accomplice?"?

[Letree]

ahhh...so now you are just haggling over the price?

Are you a friend of TG's? Acquaintance? Work with her? or her "accomplice?"?

I believe only half the reward money is offered for the safe return of Tara. IMO no, no, no, and no.

[dixinites]

Yeah, and then we could all drive to her hideout and ask to see the baby.

Well, at least that part of your theory has been established. If you do know where her hideout is, why haven't YOU ridden out to see the baby? Was it delivered by her "rescuer"?

I'm just interested to hear some of the "meat and bones" behind these theories. No offense to anyone, but I haven't heard any "convincing" evidence regarding the machinery behind how or why this could have taken place.

If you have not heard any "convincing" evidence regarding the possibility that HD had anything to do with Tara's disappearance, then I don't think that anything short of a signed confession will do it for you.

Your opinion on HD's involvement has been noted. You are entitled to your opinion. If you don't want to share your theories, then I guess we won't be hearing alot more from you.

[Lindsey]

It just comes naturally to some, right, Lindsey?

True
:cool:

[dixinites]

I believe only half the reward money is offered for the safe return of Tara. IMO no, no, no, and no.

Well, half of the reward money is still a big chunk of change...I'd say go for it.

Tara would probably be relieved to have this whole thing over with, so I don't think she would be PO'd at all. Unfortunately, I don't think we will be afforded the chance to find out. JMO.

[odette]

Dixie,

We should be so lucky.

I wish we could find out who the man who heard the woman's scream is. That really is pretty eerie. Ocilla doesn't sound like the type of town where you would often hear people screaming bloody murder, JMHO.

I meant to ask earlier and forgot. I guess I was just soooo excited about Tara's bundle of joy:rolleyes: But, would the road on which this man lived be in the general direction one would travel to get to the back roads between Ocilla - Perry - H'ville?

JMHO.

Yes Merrick, this road would be considered an alternate route to get to Fitzgerald ect from Ocilla ..

I explained in a previous post on this thread which may help to clarify.

Post #2953
Today, 06:44 PM

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=266543&page=74

[dixinites]

Dixie,

We should be so lucky.

I wish we could find out who the man who heard the woman's scream is. That really is pretty eerie. Ocilla doesn't sound like the type of town where you would often hear people screaming bloody murder, JMHO.

I meant to ask earlier and forgot. I guess I was just soooo excited about Tara's bundle of joy:rolleyes: But, would the road on which this man lived be in the general direction one would travel to get to the back roads between Ocilla - Perry - H'ville?

JMHO.

I see that Odette has answered your question. (Thnx, Odette)

The only knowledge I have on roads in the area are actually from the map that Odette has provided for me. I am only familiar with I-75 and Hwy 280 from some of my travels in the area.

As for the scream, it could be significant, maybe not. It's always difficult to cull the legitimate witnesses from the publicity seekers. Also, the man himself
said that he initially thought it was "teenagers". (At that time of the morning, intoxicated teenagers would be a possibility). Or it could be something more ominous.

My leanings are still in the direction of Tara leaving with someone willingly and harm came to her after she and the perp reached their destination.
If someone forced her out of her home at gunpoint, the scream would make more sense to me and is a possibility. JMO.

[Letree]

Well, at least that part of your theory has been established. If you do know where her hideout is, why haven't YOU ridden out to see the baby? Was it delivered by her "rescuer"?

I'm just interested to hear some of the "meat and bones" behind these theories. No offense to anyone, but I haven't heard any "convincing" evidence regarding the machinery behind how or why this could have taken place.

If you have not heard any "convincing" evidence regarding the possibility that HD had anything to do with Tara's disappearance, then I don't think that anything short of a signed confession will do it for you.

Your opinion on HD's involvement has been noted. You are entitled to your opinion. If you don't want to share your theories, then I guess we won't be hearing alot more from you.

Ok Dixinites, since you politely asked me to pass the meat and bones, I will hand you some, but not enough to fill you, I'm sure.

Tara left home sometime between saturday night and the early morning of monday. She had already planned it out. She dressed in her simplest clothes and left behind anything that could tell on her. Cell phone, favorite dresses, so forth. She mean't to get the money out of the car, but forgot it. Probably took her purse out of habit. I don't know who she left with, but they drove to a safe place. I'm not sure where she is living presently, perhaps in East Grinstead, Sussex, England where her ancestors came from. She may be living with that young English History Professor she met in Waycross. I don't know everything about it. It's just my theory and my opinions.

[BroadwayJoe]

Ok Dixinites, since you politely asked me to pass the meat and bones, I will hand you some, but not enough to fill you, I'm sure.

Tara left home sometime between saturday night and the early morning of monday. She had already planned it out. She dressed in her simplest clothes and left behind anything that could tell on her. Cell phone, favorite dresses, so forth. She mean't to get the money out of the car, but forgot it. Probably took her purse out of habit. I don't know who she left with, but they drove to a safe place. I'm not sure where she is living presently, perhaps in East Grinstead, Sussex, England where her ancestors came from. She may be living with that young English History Professor she met in Waycross. I don't know everything about it. It's just my theory and my opinions.

Whatever you are drinking, I'd like some please.

[dixinites]

Okies, thanks for sharing!

[fsbiii]

Letree-

Are you being serious or sarcastic? Either's fine, I'm just not sure which you're doing tonight. I admit being a little "wow'd" by your postings this evening. I can argue that she left on her own just as easy as I can argue foul play, so I don't dismiss her being alive and well somewhere at all. Is there something to back up your information about the professor in Waycross or is that a guess? I'd love to hear more, seriously.

[odette]

I tried to edit my post above but it timed out. In light of mooloo's info, maybe the person who took Tara grabbed her purse, with the keys in it, to lock the door or gain access later. If Tara was not conscious when they left, it's possible she gained consciousness and started screaming her head off, JMHO.

I've wondered also if Tara may have been knocked unconscious by the perp and carried out to a vehicle, may help to explain the 'signs of a possible struggle', ie lamp knocked over and the clock under the bed, then regained consciousness along the way and let out a scream. This theory of the possible abduction/murder of Tara includes premeditation, which IMO is not beyond the realm of possibilities.

JMHO

[Letree]

Letree-

Are you being serious or sarcastic? Either's fine, I'm just not sure which you're doing tonight. I admit being a little "wow'd" by your postings this evening. I can argue that she left on her own just as easy as I can argue foul play, so I don't dismiss her being alive and well somewhere at all. Is there something to back up your information about the professor in Waycross or is that a guess? I'd love to hear more, seriously.

The only thing that I fabricated was that she might be living in East Grinstead, Eng., although it is true that her family came from there. imo

[fsbiii]

Thanks. The Waycross professor is intriguing. Is LE aware of this connection? If not, please make them.

The only thing that I fabricated was that she might be living in East Grinstead, Eng., although it is true that her family came from there. imo

[concernedperson]

Of course not, my opinions are just that opinions. Your posts have indicated that you have direct, truthful knowledge that Tara is alive, well and a mother now. That's an entirely different set of circumstances than those of a message board poster speculating. JMHO. If you are being truthful, you can save a lot of people a lot of additional pain by anonymously contacting LE and telling them what you know. I'm sure no one will be angry, just relieved. JMHO.

Yeah right.

[RCM-715]

I agree fsbii. You all may have heard of this professor, but this is news to me. If this is true, and even a thought of a connection, LE needs to be informed.





Thanks. The Waycross professor is intriguing. Is LE aware of this connection? If not, please make them.

[dixinites]

I've wondered also if Tara may have been knocked unconscious by the perp and carried out to a vehicle, may help to explain the 'signs of a possible struggle', ie lamp knocked over and the clock under the bed, then regained consciousness along the way and let out a scream. This theory of the possible abduction/murder of Tara includes premeditation, which IMO is not beyond the realm of possibilities.

JMHO

Yes, that does make sense, along with alot of other theories on her disappearance. I just don't count a "suprise" rescue or putting her parents through all of this anguish to run off to have a baby as being among them, but that's JMO.

I wouldn't care if my daughter was "Teacher of Year" AND the reigning "Miss America", and she got pregnant...we would work thru it. I think Tara was intelligent enough to figure this out pertaining to her family, too. To infer otherwise is very disrespectful to her, IMO. Why not just tell her family and relocate if she couldn't handle the embarassment...much more likely.

[readmylips]

You're stepping out on a limb here Letree, pardon the pun. You are strongly suggesting that you have intimate knowledge of Tara and her whereabouts. Either that or you're just blowing smoke up our skirts (sorry guys). Which is it?

JMHO.

i vote smoke. honestly though, letree's theory is no more wild and crazy than half or more of the others i have seen tossed around over the course of the last 1+ year. it has just been a while since someone tossed it out on the table for dissection. no disrespect letree. i don't think letree knows anything. i read it as a theory, imagination , the plot for a paperback, etc, etc. yeah, it could happen. did it? i doubt it. jmho and 2 cents all balled up in one.

[readmylips]

Ok Dixinites, since you politely asked me to pass the meat and bones, I will hand you some, but not enough to fill you, I'm sure.

Tara left home sometime between saturday night and the early morning of monday. She had already planned it out. She dressed in her simplest clothes and left behind anything that could tell on her. Cell phone, favorite dresses, so forth. She mean't to get the money out of the car, but forgot it. Probably took her purse out of habit. I don't know who she left with, but they drove to a safe place. I'm not sure where she is living presently, perhaps in East Grinstead, Sussex, England where her ancestors came from. She may be living with that young English History Professor she met in Waycross. I don't know everything about it. It's just my theory and my opinions.

ok. you say that the only thing you fabricated was the location. so are you implying that you know the rest to be fact or are you saying that this is you belief. there is a distinct difference between the two. theory is fine. we all have one or many and you're entitled to yours and some respect to it too. but it would be nice to know if you have something to share that backs it all up.

[fsbiii]

**As an aside, I'm giving RML the "Avatar of the Month" award**

[dixinites]

Didn't Miss NJ just turn in her crown because of pregnancy? That's pretty public in light of all the othe beauty queen mishaps making the news.

I'm agreeing with Odette. Being knocked unconcious and taken from her home could explain the few signs of a slight struggle. She might have awakened and screamed while in the car. It's just a theory that might be worth developing. JMHO.

Well, if someone went into her home and knocked her out, then I agree it most likely have been premeditated...someone either let themselves in and suprised her, or she was expecting someone, answered the door and it wasn't who she was expecting. But if was the latter, I would wonder why the struggle would have taken place in the bedroom. If the person she wasn't expecting forced their way in when she answered the door, I would think the evidence of a struggle would have been in the living room.

[Letree]

Of course not, my opinions are just that opinions. Your posts have indicated that you have direct, truthful knowledge that Tara is alive, well and a mother now. That's an entirely different set of circumstances than those of a message board poster speculating. JMHO. If you are being truthful, you can save a lot of people a lot of additional pain by anonymously contacting LE and telling them what you know. I'm sure no one will be angry, just relieved. JMHO.

I have been told by someone about a professor from Waycross that Tara met. I was not told that he was the father of Tara's baby. That is not a fabrication, but I can't say that it can be called direct knowledge because it was told to me. I was told that Tara was alive and had a baby. I have no proof. I don't intend to tell LE about anything I've heard because I'm sure they know more than me. As far as I can determine, Tara doesn't want to be exposed. With that said, I can't swear that Tara is alive or has a baby because I haven't seen her. I have only been told this information by someone who knows her. If it turns out that I have been lied to and Tara was murdered, I hope the murderer gets what he/she deserves. My theories are just my opinion.

[dixinites]

***Speaking of avatars, FSB, if yours is a Rorschart test, I failed miserably, lol. The colors are very striking tho!***

[Lindsey]

I have been told by someone about a professor from Waycross that Tara met. I was not told that he was the father of Tara's baby. That is not a fabrication, but I can't say that it can be called direct knowledge because it was told to me. I was told that Tara was alive and had a baby. I have no proof. I don't intend to tell LE about anything I've heard because I'm sure they know more than me. As far as I can determine, Tara doesn't want to be exposed. With that said, I can't swear that Tara is alive or has a baby because I haven't seen her. I have only been told this information by someone who knows her. If it turns out that I have been lied to and Tara was murdered, I hope the murderer gets what he/she deserves. My theories are just my opinion.

Hi ... I don't think we've "met" but your posts are very interesting. Does the person who told you about Tara and her baby claim to have seen them and know their location or is it just hearsay for that person also? TIA

[odette]

Well, if someone went into her home and knocked her out, then I agree it most likely have been premeditated...someone either let themselves in and suprised her, or she was expecting someone, answered the door and it wasn't who she was expecting. But if was the latter, I would wonder why the struggle would have taken place in the bedroom. If the person she wasn't expecting forced their way in when she answered the door, I would think the evidence of a struggle would have been in the living room.

Going along with the idea that Tara knew the perp very well, she may have let him into the house and they have retired to the bedroom. Later on as Tara is drifting off to sleep the perp seizes the opportunity to render her unconscious. She may have reached out and in the process knocked the lamp over and the clock ended up under the bed. Anyone know how long a person is 'out to it' if a stun gun/taser is used on them?.

JMHO

[minga]

The only problem with your theory is that Tara didn't have a passport.




According to? .... RCM who is a friend of MH who hadn't been involved with TG intimately in for how long? And who doesn't know exactly all that she might have done or prepared for, not having been there 24/7. I would say that might be open to question.

Has that been absolutely proven? If it has been proven then I apologize to RCM, but at this time I would rather have my facts from someone who can prove it, not just say it. I don't believe that MH wouldn't have every fact any longer.

JMO and I don't mean to offend, I just have questions about that. :shrug:

[dixinites]

Going along with the idea that Tara knew the perp very well, she may have let him into the house and they have retired to the bedroom. Later on as Tara is drifting off to sleep the perp seizes the opportunity to render her unconscious. She may have reached out and in the process knocked the lamp over and the clock ended up under the bed. Anyone know how long a person is 'out to it' if a stun gun/taser is used on them?.

JMHO

I don't know anything about stun guns or even if they would render you unconscious.

But as you said, if it there was someone in Tara's bedroom and she was asleep, are you thinking a casual encounter or someone like HD? I'm trying to see a motive...

[dixinites]

According to? .... RCM who is a friend of MH who hadn't been involved with TG intimately in for how long? And who doesn't know exactly all that she might have done or prepared for, not having been there 24/7. I would say that might be open to question.

Has that been absolutely proven? If it has been proven then I apologize to RCM, but at this time I would rather have my facts from someone who can prove it, not just say it. I don't believe that MH wouldn't have every fact any longer.

JMO and I don't mean to offend, I just have questions about that. :shrug:

It's true that it isn't written in stone that Tara didn't have a passport, but I would think that this would have been checked out early in the investigation and most likely shared with the family. It isn't likely, IMO, that AG could have sat on that tidbit of information.

I don't think Tara had a passport, JMO.

[dixinites]

Hi ... I don't think we've "met" but your posts are very interesting. Does the person who told you about Tara and her baby claim to have seen them and know their location or is it just hearsay for that person also? TIA

I'm very curious about this information, too. I don't think someone with information would have sat on it. Were you exchanging theories with this person, or is someone claiming to have seen this with their own eyes? (And no offense here, but "visions" exempted).

[Its just me]

I have no direction to go with this but this question has bugged me all day. Do anyone know if AG/LG lives in area of the friend that HD has been said to have visited on Sunday. I can do the search myself but as always a quick answer will be appreciated. IJM

[odette]

I don't know anything about stun guns or even if they would render you unconscious.

But as you said, if it there was someone in Tara's bedroom and she was asleep, are you thinking a casual encounter or someone like HD? I'm trying to see a motive...

No, I am not thinking a "casual encounter".

I'm thinking premeditated murder and as the perp would not want to transport a 'body' (too risky, may get pulled over) to the final destination, it would be preferable to have the victim unconscious for at least part of the journey.

JMHO

[dixinites]

No, I am not thinking a "casual encounter".

I'm thinking premeditated murder and as the perp would not want to transport a 'body' (too risky, may get pulled over) to the final destination, it would be preferable to have the victim unconscious for at least part of the journey.

JMHO

Do you think she had threatened to break it off with him, if so, he would have had to play it pretty cool when he got there to advance to the bed stage and then carry thru with his plan. Just trying to walk this thru, lol.

[odette]

Do you think she had threatened to break it off with him, if so, he would have had to play it pretty cool when he got there to advance to the bed stage and then carry thru with his plan. Just trying to walk this thru, lol.

Yes, in this particular theory which I have played out in my mind, all the above.

JMHO

[One2Snoop]

***Speaking of avatars, FSB, if yours is a Rorschart test, I failed miserably, lol. The colors are very striking tho!***

LOL - nahhhh this is the Rorschach test that everyone should take - it tells the truth in a blunt sort of way - LOL!

http://www.stupidstuff.org/main/rorschach.htm JMO

[odette]

I have been told by someone about a professor from Waycross that Tara met. I was not told that he was the father of Tara's baby. That is not a fabrication, but I can't say that it can be called direct knowledge because it was told to me. I was told that Tara was alive and had a baby. I have no proof. I don't intend to tell LE about anything I've heard because I'm sure they know more than me. As far as I can determine, Tara doesn't want to be exposed. With that said, I can't swear that Tara is alive or has a baby because I haven't seen her. I have only been told this information by someone who knows her. If it turns out that I have been lied to and Tara was murdered, I hope the murderer gets what he/she deserves. My theories are just my opinion.

Letree, I sense that you sincerely want to believe this person who told you that Tara is alive and has a baby. I also am sensing that you may be starting to wonder if you have been lied to. I may be wrong in this assumption, but it is what I am picking up from your post. All I can say to you is 'consider the source' of this information and ask yourself why would this person want you to believe this if it is not true.

JMHO