General Case Discussion: OLD THREAD

[Lionthrone]

Originally posted by Wukong
Lionthrone is a one trick pony and, alas, the one trick he does know is not very good. As I browse the boards reading threads of interest, Lionthrone occassionaly pops up with his one tired trick and leaves.

Wukong,

I think you're selling me short :(

While the O J Simpson message board did command my attention over the past ten years (two of which the board was closed by the moderators for vicious banter ) I followed dozens of other trials during that same time frame, many of which didn't involve white on black, or black on white crime.

During those times more than ever my keen insight and natural intuitive abilities (which was appreciated by all) allowed me to cut through the Minutia and get to the heart of the case.

That kind of track record shouldn't be so easily dismissed :no:



Lionthrone :)

[alien]

Originally posted by Lionthrone


Wukong,

I think you're selling me short :(

While the O J Simpson message board did command my attention over the past ten years (two of which the board was closed by the moderators for vicious banter ) I followed dozens of other trials during that same time frame, many of which didn't involve white on black, or black on white crime.

During those times more than ever my keen insight and natural intuitive abilities (which was appreciated by all) allowed me to cut through the Minutia and get to the heart of the case.

That kind of track record shouldn't be so easily dismissed :no:



Lionthrone :)

Sorry martin, but I am disregarding my post about personal stuff and as I said, I only think about lion when he posts.

So here goes........I really wish they had a BIG HEAD icon.

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


alien
everyone would not respond to situaitons exactly as you would or as you expect them to. I am sure you understand that.
martin II

You are right, my dear. I understand what you are saying. However, I would think that most people would act according to the situation at hand.

I have never seen OJ, after he was found not guilty, act like a grieving person or someone who has respect for his ex-wife who was so brutally murdered even though in his "suicide" letter, he made it sound like he just could not live without her. Apparently he could and did and didn't mind trashing her. Remember the Juiced segment. What kind of respect is that for Nicole?

Once he heard the verdict, after his famous words about finding the real killer of Nicole. he acted like he just didn't care.

IMO, normal behaviour is what normal people show. OJ, IMO, is an egotistical person who only cared about himself. And you know what, for all that he put forth so we would believe he was a wonderful, upright person, we all now know that he was into drugs and pornography and he was a batterer. We saw the true side of OJ, not the side he wanted the public to see.

This is, simply put, IMO, but I honestly believe a lot of people would agree with me.

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


alien
everyone would not respond to situaitons exactly as you would or as you expect them to. I am sure you understand that.
martin II

Let me add this, even though people may get tired of hearing about my personal experiences.

When my Brother, Dad and Son passed away, my family did the Old Irish thing and had a wake after the funeral. We got drunk, we laughed and told stories about the person who passed on. That helped us deal with the situation at hand. But you can bet that after that happened and we got it out of our systems, our lives were never the same after that. The pain and sadness never goes away. We live our lives respecting that person and thinking of them every day with love and tenderness. We would never even think about making a commercial (like that would ever happen since we aren't celebrities) to make light of what happened to the person that we profess to love.


Having said all that, I am off the board because Mr Alien is home and I want to spend some time with him.

Hope everyone has a good night and I will talk to everyone tomorrow.

:seeya:

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II
bob

simpons cut no cut.

you say simpson bleed every place he went after the murders.

he did drop any blood on the neighbors property when you say he was headed to the fense

he didn't drop any blood when he jumped the fense as you and petrocelli claimed he did

he did not drop any blood walking out of trhe walkway.

he did not drop and blood walkinf up the steps in his house

none in his bed room

none in his bathroom

none in the shower

none in front of his house as he grabbed and loaded his bags.

none in the limo

none in front of the airport

none in the airplane

you are making up stuff to cover the holes in what lapd did.

imo

martin II



martin II, you have things backwards again. The relevant evidence here is where Simpson dripped his blood, not where he didn't drip his blood.

Simpson wasn't continuously bleeding. He had the kind of cut across his knuckle that would bleed, form a temporary clot and stop bleeding, and then could be easily reopened and bleed again. You can't seem to grasp that fact.

The only one making things up are you and nettathirty. You think by avoiding the real evidence that proves Simpson's guilty that it will all go away when you point out the meaningless places that he didn't drip blood. It won't. Criminals are convicted on the evidence they leave, not the evidence they don't leave. Anyone can name a thousand places where Simpson didn't drip blood when his cut wasn't bleeding. Your entire argument is irrelevant and dumb.

bobaugust

[Wukong]

I just had a thought that calls into question the theory that professional hitmen killed Nicole. With all this talk about barking dogs and Hey, hey, hey, I started thinking about the dog barking for a full 5 minutes before Heidstra hears Hey, hey, hey. If the dog is barking we assume the killer(s) is already at work dispatching of Nicole. If Heidstra is correct, the dog is barking for at least a full 5 minutes before Ron shows up. A professional killer would have already killed Nicole long before 5 minutes is up.

Would a professional kill Nicole then hang around while the dog is barking continuously without shuting the dog up? Or would he just leave after killing her and let the dog bark away? Of course no professional is going to hang around that long and just let the dog bark his head off. If the dog is barking that long before Ron shows up this is no professional killer(s).

Wukong

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II


alien
everyone would not respond to situaitons exactly as you would or as you expect them to. I am sure you understand that.
martin II

That is true, people react to grief in numerous ways of every type of variable.

However, how many people do you know that would broadcast a pay-per-view show with the type of segment that he included regarding the Bronco? The fact of the matter is that segment was morally and ethically reprehensible and inexcusable.

It has nothing to do with whether or not he is a murderer of course, it simply speaks volumes of the type of person that he is.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Wukong
I just had a thought that calls into question the theory that professional hitmen killed Nicole. With all this talk about barking dogs and Hey, hey, hey, I started thinking about the dog barking for a full 5 minutes before Heidstra hears Hey, hey, hey. If the dog is barking we assume the killer(s) is already at work dispatching of Nicole. If Heidstra is correct, the dog is barking for at least a full 5 minutes before Ron shows up. A professional killer would have already killed Nicole long before 5 minutes is up.

Would a professional kill Nicole then hang around while the dog is barking continuously without shuting the dog up? Or would he just leave after killing her and let the dog bark away? Of course no professional is going to hang around that long and just let the dog bark his head off. If the dog is barking that long before Ron shows up this is no professional killer(s).

Wukong

Good point, and I have always believed that people are reaching when they want to place the crime with a professional. All of the information shows us that, regardless of if it was OJ, the killings were definitely personal and amatuer.

Can anyone ever recall of hearing about a professional hit in which the victims had so many wounds? I personally cannot, but I am curious if anyone else has an example.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II

The cuts to nicole and the position she was in when she was attacked and the position she was in when her neck was cut, does not put her in a natural position to have her legs tucked under the iron fense as they were found by le and the me. imo


There has been speculation about how her feet got under the fence. Some are of the conclusion that they were forcibly wedged under it, while others are of the conclusion that they wedged themselves if her body went into convulsions while she died.

I do not recall the exact medical terminology, but in the onset of death sometimes the body will go into mass convulsions much like a seizure.

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I just re-read Heistra's testimony & it looks like he might have been across the street after all. He's talking of the alley being elevated & seeing the tiles of Nicole's condo. The alley behind her condo isn't elevated. Lo & behold, we may owe Netta a point for being right this ONCE. Who would have thought?:tongue: Got this from Wagner's site : http://www.wagnerandson.com/oj/what.htm
"HEIDSTRA'S REPORT: Figure 1 shows a map of the immediate vicinity. The neighborhood is cocked at an angle from north, but we will follow the convention there of colloquially referring to the direction toward the top of Figure 1 as "north." Heidstra lives on the north side of Dorothy St. very near to Westgate, which is a block east of and parallel to Bundy. He said that at about 10:15 he left his apartment with his dogs, went to Westgate, then a block north, and turned to go west on Gorham. He went down that into the dogleg of Bundy, but before he got to the straight part of Bundy he heard a dog farther on that alarmed him because it sounded "crazy" and "hysterical." Wanting to avoid an encounter with his own dogs, he backtracked a few yards to an alley (I have called it the "east alley") that would take him back to Dorothy St. without going down Bundy. He went through the alley until he got to a point "exactly opposite Nicole's condo" and their waited to listen to the commotion he could still hear from the street on the other side of the house he was behind.'

I'm still not sure where he was but it still sounds to me like he was behind Nicole's condo.

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva
FBG, I just looked at the map again & it appears that Heidstra DOES live across Bundy. I was looking at the map wrong :tongue: Dadgum this hurts -- it appears martin and netta are correct and that I misunderstood the testimony. My bad.

[alien]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


Good point, and I have always believed that people are reaching when they want to place the crime with a professional. All of the information shows us that, regardless of if it was OJ, the killings were definitely personal and amatuer.

Can anyone ever recall of hearing about a professional hit in which the victims had so many wounds? I personally cannot, but I am curious if anyone else has an example.

And isn't it possible that a professional killer would have killed the dog also?

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


satalite views are much more realiable. they are the same everytime you look at it.

not open to mistakes made by people that think they are in one place when in fact they are at another.
martin II There is no reason for you to take a shot at anyone over this. I and socal have both said that we were mistaken in our understanding of which alley Heidstra was on. It's not like we have refused to acknowledge being wrong -- unlike some posters.

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


FBG
What hurts???
martin II Having to say you're sorry -- :D

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II
bob

you suggest that simpson cut his hand at bundy when he had ron in a arm lock and his left hand was at rons ear possible in a fist. you don't attempt to analysis this in detail to see exactly how
the glove could have been pulled off, you just say ron must have or maby did this.

he arrives at rockingham and you say he bled outside the gate, others say he bled inside the gate. but you say outside the gate because that is the only way you can support petrocellis theory that oj jumped the gate in the side walkway and this is when the glove must have or maby fell out of the bag.

although he was supposed to have banged up against the wall three times his finger did not bleed in that spot or any other spot as he was supposed to have walked out of tis walkway.

he walkes into the foyer of his house and starts bleeding 2-3 drops there but 1 second later he is walking up the stairs and he does not bleed there, in his bedroom, in his shower. now you say oj must have taken a very quick shower.

he puts on new clothes and comes out to the limo.

since there is no evidence that oj bled while he was handling all those bags for loading into the limo you say he must have been hiding his left hand. no bleeding at the airport you say he must have or proberbly hid his hand from view as he signed autographs.

this cut, to you, seemed to open and bleed one second and two seconds it stops and starts back bleeding a few second later.

This is just too many must have or maby did.



martin ii, you're having a hard time distinguishing facts from supposition, and reality from fantasy.

Lets talk reality.

You're the one who is imagining that Simpson kept a closed fist when he killed Ron, not me. The second by second blow reenactment of the murders is pure imagination. All we know are the results of that fight and the evidence that was found. The fact is that Simpson was cut on his left hand. The fact is that his left hand glove was found on the ground and it didn't have a cut in it. The reasonable conclusion is that Simpson wasn't wearing his left hand glove when he was cut.

Trace evidence found on that glove.
One hair from Nicole Brown.
No hair from Ron Goldman
Fibers with blood on them, consistent with Ron Goldman's shirt.
Fibers consistent with Ron Goldman's jeans.
One "guard hair" from the Akita dog.

You're mistaken again as to what I said about the blood at the Rockingham gate. There was one blood drop just outside the gate and two blood drops just inside the gate. Simpson didn't jump the gate, he scaled his fence.

Simpson didn't hit his finger on his left hand when he fell against the wall, he hit his right shoulder. Sometimes Simpson's finger was bleeding, sometimes it wasn't. Sometimes Simpson most likely dripped blood on natural surfaces and that blood was never found. Sometimes Simpson dripped blood on unnatural surfaces such as cement, metal , wood, and fabric and those blood drops were found.

When Simpson entered his house he dripped blood on his foyer floor. He most likely then went to his laundry room and put his clothing in his washing machine before going upstairs to shower. There was blood seen on a light switch cover near the laundry room but never collected.

After Simpson became aware of his cut he was careful not to do anything to reopen it to bleed. Yes, he easily kept it out of sight. That's really not to hard to do, you could probably do the same thing. When he signed autographs he held what ever he was signing with hs life hand, his left knuckle could not be seen. You could even do that.

The cut would bleed, form a temporary clot and stop bleeding, be easily reopened and bleed again. The process was random based on what Simpson did to cause the cut to open and drip blood after it had formed a temporary clot.

There are a lot of "maybes" because there is so much evidence. The evidence Simpson left is what proves his guilt. We don't know nor do we have to know how or what he did to cause his cut to bleed, the relevant fact here is that his blood was found everywhere he went after the murders. Where he didn't drip blood is irrelevant.

bobaugust

[alien]

Originally posted by nettathirty


alien:

That photo is a courtesy of Mr Bob August!

OJ knew about the murders, so it didn't come as a surprise to him.
OJ probably knew the murderers or why the murders happened.
The Bronco chase was staged, and OJ was never going to committ suicide.


Ojs personality-

OJ left the hospital after his 2 year old daughter drowned in the family pool from his first marriage. He went to a bar and dranked, instead of being home with his family. I assume OJ is not the type to deal with things that are unpleasant, are be in an environment that is not upbeat and somewhat festive!

imo

I realized after my post that the pictures were from bobaugust's site.

How do you know that OJ knew about the murders? And that the Bronco chase was staged. You did speculate that OJ knew the murderers or that they were going to happen. If so, why didn't he try to prevent it from happening?

The last part of your post shows exactly the kind of person that OJ is IMO. Very self centered.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by fbgweezer


I'm still not sure where he was but it still sounds to me like he was behind Nicole's condo.


fbgweezer, Heidstra was in the alley behind the houses across the street from Bundy.

When Heidstra stopped and listened to the voices he said he heard coming from Nicole's condo he was at a higher elevation than Nicole's house and could see the roof of Nicole's house between the houses blocking his view. If those houses weren't there he would have been able to see the front of Nicole's condo.

bobaugust

[weezer]

Originally posted by bobaugust



fbgweezer, Heidstra was in the alley behind the houses across the street from Bundy.

When Heidstra stopped and listened to the voices he said he heard coming from Nicole's condo he was at a higher elevation than Nicole's house and could see the roof of Nicole's house between the houses blocking his view. If those houses weren't there he would have been able to see the front of Nicole's condo.

bobaugust thanks bobaugust -- I finally figured out that I'd stopped with "behind" and never abosrbed the "across" --

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II



so if heidstra is correct about the time of 10:40 hearing the hay hay hay. that voice may not have been ron's

martin II


martin II, your reasoning is flawed and doesn't make any sense.

If Heidstra heard Ron yell at Simpson at about 10:40. and then some five minutes later saw Simpson's Bronco speed away from Bundy that's completely consistent with when Heidstra said he arrived back home.

October 25, 1996 Robert Heidstra

Q. Did you have any opinion as you saw the vehicle speed away, whether
it appeared like the person was in a hurry?
A. Oh yes. It was -- must have been in a hurry; it sped away fast.
Q. Can you tell us about what time it was when you made that
observation?
A. It must have been around 10:40, 10:45, in between. No more than
10:45, for sure. It would be a little before, maybe.
Q. Little before 10:45?
A. Yeah.
Q. But in the area of 10:40 to 10:45?
A. Exactly, yeah.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


satalite views are much more realiable. they are the same everytime you look at it.

not open to mistakes made by people that think they are in one place when in fact they are at another.
martin II


martin II, satellite views have limitations. They do not show differences in elevations nor do they show what someone's view would be on the ground.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I'm curious. What is this "guard hair" from the dog? Why is it referred to that way?


socaldiva, Guard hairs are the longest, thickest hairs in a mammal's coat, forming the topcoat (or outer coat). They taper to a point and protect the undercoat from the elements. They are often water repellent and stick out above the rest of the coat. Guard hairs add the sheen to the coat of an animal.

bobaugust

[Wukong]

Martin,

A few things:

1) I answered Caphills post as did Bob. It is obvious that Caphill is stuck in place and has not read what either of us wrote. The fact is that the blood had degraded. Just to back that up, DNA testing was performed on the scrapings from Nicole's fingernails and ONLY Nicole's DNA was found. That should have ended the debate but Caphill now contends that there was one red blood cell that belongs to someone else. I contend that is quite improbable.

2) I posted a thought about professional killers that you seemed not to have grasped, as evidenced by some of your subsequent comments. If, as you say, the dog got out while the killers were disposing of Nicole (which you say was 1 1/2 minutes) then why would they hang around for 3 1/2 more minutes, before Ron showed up, with the dog barking like crazy? They would have killed the dog or left. Professionals are not going to hang around with a barking dog bringing attention to a murder if they were waiting for Ron (the real target according to some).

3) There is no reason to go getting all cocky just because you read a few pages of testimony. This is not becoming.

Wukong

[RainStorm]

Originally posted by caphill


*snip*

To put this discussion to rest, is there scientific data that a AB type red blood can have a A antigen just disappear. Matheson seemed to think that only an A antigen could degrade and B antigen could not. I challenge anyone to find the scientific data to support his statements.



The prosecution answered this challenge by reading into the record a passage from "Forensic Science Handbook" by Richard Saferstein. Apparently, at that time, this book was renowned for being the bible on it's subject.

The passage read by Matheson said:

"The A isoenzymes are the least stable and the C isoenzymes the most stable, thus one might expect the A bands in BA and CA types to be lost before the B or C bands are lost and this in fact has been observed."

So there is scientific documentation and data to support Matheson's explanation that the blood under Nicole's nails was her own blood, type BA that had degraded to B. That plus all the other indications that it was in fact her own blood.

RainStorm

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II
netta

Different people heard the dog barking at different times and at different places.

I think the dog barked sometimes at one location. stopped barking, moved to another location and started barking again. etc.

This would account for some people hearing and others not hearing the dog bark at different times.

Each person felt that the dog barked non stop but that was only when the dog was near them. i think the dog barked the most when he was on Bundy.

side issue
Heidestra said when he was midway in the east alley, the Akita AND the black dog were barking at the same time and he heard the hay hay hay even though the dogs were barking loudly .

i don't think the hay hay hay was rons voice at all because the dog was already in the street barking at about 10:25 - 10:35 according to heidstra and the dog could have been in the street barking before heidstra got to bundy.

:shrug:
martin II



martin II, your opinion about the the dog barking, then stopping for a while, and then barking again are contradicted by the witnesses who said once the dog started barking it continued to bark. No witness ever said that the barking stopped and then started again. Five witnesses who were outside never heard any dog barking at the time two witnesses in their houses thought the barking started. All of the witnesses who heard the dog bark described it the same way. Loud, unusual, stange, confused, panicking, high barking, nonstop barking, persistant,at a significant pitch, a plaintive wail.

Your opinion about the "hay, hay, hay" (like in a barn) doesn't make any sense and is contradicted by Heidstra's testimony.

It seems that you will use any excuse, ignoring testimony, fantasizing what no one said, and using faulty reasoning based on not understanding what witnesses actually said, only to offer a contrary opinion.

Your opinions are incorrect and funny.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by caphill





Did Cellmark do the DNA testing of Nicoles fingernail scrapings? Did the Cellmark expert testify regarding the DNA from the fingernail scraping? Is so can someone direct me to that expert testimony.


caphill, the results from DNA testing. Item No. 84, PCR testing, Nicole. 1/2,500.

May 11, 1995 Dr. Robin Cotton

MR. CLARKE: With regard to no. 84-a the left nail clippings and scrapings, did you test that particular item?
DR. COTTON: Yes, we did.
MR. CLARKE: And did you observe that or was it tested using PCR?
DR. COTTON: Yes, it was.
MR. CLARKE: With what results?
DR. COTTON: We are now on 84-a?
MR. CLARKE: Yes.
DR. COTTON: Okay. The results from the PCR testing on 84-a are consistent with Nicole Brown Simpson and exclude Ronald Goldman and Mr. Simpson.
MR. CLARKE: All right. And that was at again six genetic markers?
DR. COTTON: That's right.

***
MR. CLARKE: Does that mean, Dr. Cotton, that you obtained the exact same results for 84-a as you did for 84-b, the clipping?
DR. COTTON: It does.
MR. CLARKE: And then lastly, with regard to this item, 84-b, referring your attention to the right scrapings, did you also test those using PCR?
DR. COTTON: Yes, we did.
MR. CLARKE: With what results?
DR. COTTON: They are consistent with Nicole Brown and Mr. Simpson and Mr. Goldman are excluded.
MR. CLARKE: And were these the exact same results as in the earlier two nail clippings and scrapings results?
DR. COTTON: They are.

bobaugust

[bandit's mom]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nettathirty
[B]


Socal,

I have always said OJ visited the crime scene. I believe OJ was the source of the bloody shoe print. However the shoe he wore to Bundy probably wasn't a Bruno Magli, it could have been any number of shoes with the shoe sole..

OK, I'll bite. What possible reason would he "visit" the
crime scene and then leave, and go on about his business,
leaving the mother of his children with her head almost
cut off, lying in her own blood for his own children to potentially stumble upon?

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


bob

This is a message board. the purpose of the board is to allow posters to post any opinion that have about and case listed.
There are no rules governing what type of opinions should be posted as long as the opinions are posted according to the tos of the board.

No one is required to get in line and belive everything you say is fact.

I think you should try to remember that.
Martin II


martin II, this is a discussion group about the Simpson case. Some people post opinions based on false and misinformation either out of either ignorance or on purpose to get other posters to respond to them.

You can post any opinion you want, but when that opinion is based on false and misinformation there is no rule that says I can't point that out and tell you why your opinion is incorrect.

Unfortunately you post so much false and misinformation that once in a while I express my opinion about your postings as funny. I do find it funny that even when your false information is corrected you never admit to your mistakes and sometimes even continue to post the same false information. Credibility evidently doesn't mean as much to you as your opinion. I guess that's one of the biggest difference between us

bobaugust

[weezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by martin II
No one is required to get in line and belive everything you say is fact. I think we all want everyone to post their views/theories/beliefs but those need to be backed up with some type of credible proof.

[bandit's mom]

Originally posted by alien


And isn't it possible that a professional killer would have killed the dog also?

There's no question.

[bandit's mom]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wukong
[

Would a professional kill Nicole then hang around while the dog is barking continuously without shuting the dog up? Or would he just leave after killing her and let the dog bark away?

Neither, he'd kill the dog. A professional also would in all likelihood not use a knife, guns are far more efficient.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II



fbg
credible proof

example only

Parantis(sp) first says he drew 8cc blood

cochran says blood is missing.

prosecution says WHAT!!! talk to parants about what cochran is claiming.


Paritis interviewed by prosecution again. paritis now says i may have drawn less than 8cc

cochran says he is not being truthful.

proseuction says he made a "mistake" in his first testimony

i belive Paritis my opinion

you belive cochran you opinion

whoes opinion is correct.

Martin II



Martin II, Peratis only estimated the amount of blood he drew from Simpson. After the defense jumped on his estimation trying to use it as a literal fact Peratis explained that his estimation was wrong and that when he testified he never thought about being more accurate since no one in the past ever told him he didn't draw enough blood.

The defense tried to argue that there was missing blood from Simpson's sample and that blood was planted. Every claim of blood planting was proved false. There was no missing blood and there was no blood ever planted

If you believe Peratis like you claim, then you believe that he only estimated the amount of blood he drew.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II

The answer may be in wagner and or W C Dears book
martin II


martin II, no the answer is not in Wagner's articles or in Dear's book.

There is only one answer to the question if Simpson went to Bundy, why did he leave Bundy without notifying the police about the murders of his wife and someone else, and why did he leave his two small children sleeping in their rooms to awaken and find their slaughtered mom?

The answer is because Simpson was the killer.

bobaugust

[weezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by martin II
credible proof.. . . . .whoes opinion is correct. I don't think it is that cut and dry. A reasonable person looks at the situation and listens to the testimony. When questioned, Peratis said he didn't measure how much blood was withdrawn because there was no need. Okay, I can see how that would happen, so when he said he could have taken less, I believe it to be a plausible statement. Now, for the defense to then imply that "someone" stole the blood and spread it around the crime scenes to implicate Orenthal is not credible because there is no proof that that happened. Yet, it does not stop the NGs from repeating it over and over as fact. It is not fact -- it is a theory that is not supported with credible evidence.

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II

The answer may be in wagner and or W C Dears book
martin II or the moon or the stars? :D

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II



Brett cantor.



martin II :confused:

[weezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by martin II
which opinion is based on credible proof? Mine of course -- you have no credible proof that more blood was taken.

I bet even you have retold events and changed your telling of them. I doubt that if you refine/clarify your memory of an event, that I would call you a liar. I don't mean critical details like whether or not you were present, but a detail like the tiny amount of blood that was alledged to have been missing is silly.

Now if I can prove with credible evidence that you have refined/clarified your statement and it is lie, then that is a different story. The fact of the matter is, Peratis did not measure the blood and it didn't matter because contrary to the ridiculous story the defense tried to argue, there was and has been no credible proof that blood was planted.

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II

fbg
bandit was suggesting that professionals mostly use guns.
i was saying "brett cantor" as he was killed with a knife almost exactly like nicole.

martin II No way! Are you telling me Orenthal James Simpson murdered Brett Cantor too? Because that's who killed Nicole Brown.

[bandit's mom]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bobaugust
[B]


martin II, no the answer is not in Wagner's articles or in Dear's book.

There is only one answer to the question if Simpson went to Bundy, why did he leave Bundy without notifying the police about the murders of his wife and someone else, and why did he leave his two small children sleeping in their rooms to awaken and find their slaughtered mom?



You know I haven't been around here long, but it's quite obvious
to me that both of these posters are just agitating. I don't
think either of them really beleive OJ is innocent. When
someone asks a legitimate question, they throw out nonsense
about the answer being found in Wagner's article, or toss
out "Bett Cantor" as it that has any connection. I think
the reason they do that is clear. They don't have answers
and they don't really believe in his innocence either.

Really, even the defense team, for all their love of fantasy
and ridiculous theories, never came up with the absurd
idea that OJ would discover the murders and then go on
about his business. Or if they did, they had better sense
than to try to float it, even with that moronic jury.

[weezer]

Originally posted by bandit's mom
[You know I haven't been around here long, but it's quite obvious to me that both of these posters are just agitating. You've got them pegged.

[weezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by martin II
cantors name was mentioned as it is widely suspected that the mob killed cantor because of his involvement in drugs and he was killed with a knife the same way as nicole. I've googled and searched for information on Cantor's death and get only cursory news articles -- none of which say he was murdered by the mob. Please give your link to that statement.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

another example.


i am not talking about what the defebse said le did with the blood

just the fact that he changed his testimony when the issue was discussed.
****
you and i heard both testimnonies. from a neutral position.

there is really no proof of what he drew because no record was made at the time he drew the blood.

it is up to both of us to listen to both of his testimonies.

your opinion is that he is telling the truth

my opinion is that he is not being truthful.

which opinion is based on credible proof?
martin ii


martin II, the opinion that Peratis is telling the truth is more credible.

For someone to be accused of lying they have to be contradicted by credible evidence or credible testimony. No witness ever contradicted what Peratis said. There was no evidence ever presented that contradicted what Peratis said. He made a mistake and he corrected his mistake. That's not a lie.

It seems if a witness testifies to facts that contradict your beliefs and opinions then you accuse the witness of lying. That's really lame, martin II.

Peratis's testimony is supported by credible proof. The proof that no blood was ever planted in this case. Every claim of blood planting was proved false.

bobaugust

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


It is difficult to find. i think it is because le did not give the media any info.
tazzy has also looked for articles in major media with no results.

last week i posted some info from a site that listed suspects for
two unsolved cases in CA. The cantor case was one of them. you can go back and find it if you like.
martin II No, I don't think that's how it works. You make a statement about the mob killing but I go find your backup -- uh, no. You need to post your link to YOUR statement that Cantor was murdered by the mob for drugs.

[weezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty
MartinII

Estimation works in favor of the Prosecution!

Amount of drawn blood
Time dog started barking LOL . . .

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


:confused: :confused: :shrug:

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


bob
take it easy

i was trying to discuss another issue with fng.
Paritis was used only as a example. not what the defense said he did or did not do.
so take a chill pill for a moment. if you can.

martin II


martin II, maybe you should pick your words a little more carefully and I won't have to respond to correct your mistakes.

bobaugust

[weezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty
And? I'm not sure where you are going with this. Peratis said he estimated. All allegations of blood planting were proven to be false.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by nettathirty



MartinII

Estimation works in favor of the Prosecution!

Amount of drawn blood
Time dog started barking


nettathirty, estimations are only approximations. The real amount and the real times all work in favor of the truth.

bobaugust

[weezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty
Gladly Socal;

The subject dealt with NO evidence of someone other than Oj and the 2 victims at Bundy. I simply said with the Cantor case still unsolved, that could mean NO evidence of the killer was found at the scene! I think you should not say there was no evidence of the killer at the Cantor murder scene since you do not know that as a fact and cannot support the statement.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Gladly Socal;

The subject dealt with NO evidence of someone other than Oj and the 2 victims at Bundy. I simply said with the Cantor case still unsolved, that could mean NO evidence of the killer was found at the scene!


nettathirty, your statement is false.

Just because a case is unsolved doesn't meant there is no evidence, only that the killer could not be identified.

A lot of cases are not solved and sometimes later when new cases are solved and the evidence from an unsolved case matches the killer of the more recent case, then the old case is closed.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


bob
you are out of socket today.
now you are acting like kta. now you are telling me that i should pick other words to use in my post to please you.

I don't know about you.
MARTIN II


martin II, I know this may strange to you, but if you try using the actual facts instead of making things up your postings might have some credibility. Only a suggestion.

bobaugust

[weezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by nettathirty
If Peratis estimated the amount of blood at 8cc and actually drew 8cc of blood. What happened to the other 2cc of blood, it didn't evaporate? Since there is no proof of anything else happening to "extra 2cc" of blood, you have your answer -- Peratis estimated wrong.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


netta
I think that a cop that had been on the force as long as Vanhatter, that had not learned how to drop a few drops of blood without leaving proof that he did it, should have been fired a long time ago.
martin II

:)


martin II, funny. A guy like Vannatter understood that EDTA preserved blood can be distinguished from blood coming out of someone's body.

Besides the fact no one had any of Simpson's fresh blood to plant before all of the blood was collected from both crime scenes.

Your comments may have been meant to be facetious but they're based on your ignorance of the facts again.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Bob,

You can prove that Vannatter knew, what you claim about his knowledge of EDTA?


nettathirty, yes, Vannatter knew about preserved blood.

You guys love to throw out all kinds of unsupported accusations about the police and none of them turn out to be true.

March 21, 1995 Vannatter

Q DID YOU HAVE ANY ICE OR REFRIGERATION EQUIPMENT
WITH YOU?
A NO. I KNEW THERE WAS PRESERVATIVE IN THE VIAL
WHEN THE BLOOD WAS DRAWN.
Q HOW DID YOU KNOW THAT? DID YOU TEST IT?
A NO, BUT I KNOW THAT VIALS THAT ARE USED BY THE
POLICE DEPARTMENT FOR BLOOD SAMPLES CONTAIN PRESERVATIVE.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by nettathirty



New Rule:

When posting trial transcript, you must post the cross examination!



nettathirty, that's funny. You asked a question and I answered it by posting Vannatter's testimony.

You don't make the rules. If you and martin II want to read any cross examination of testimony I post then feel free to go search for it and do your own posting. That's why I always include the date of any testimony I post. Be sure to do the same.

If you want to read Darden's cross examination of Vannatter pertaining to Vannatter's testimony about Simpson's blood being preserved, find it yourself.

bobaugust

[alien]

Originally posted by socaldiva


It's funny that you consider Bob posting actual trial testimony to be "a game".

Is his game like football or baseball?

[alien]

This board seems to have no activity.

Mr Alien is home from work with some kind of weird tummy ache. I am going to spend time trying to nurse him.

Ya'll have a good night and hope to "chat" with you tomorrow.

Ciao :seeya:

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


netta
I think that a cop that had been on the force as long as Vanhatter, that had not learned how to drop a few drops of blood without leaving proof that he did it, should have been fired a long time ago.
martin II

:) And where do you think that blood came from that LE dropped BEFORE Orenthal gave blood? Do you also think Vannatter wore Orenthal's BM's, gloves and cap while doing it?

[weezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty



New Rule:

When posting trial transcript, you must post the cross examination! Nah -- let's do this one first: When making a statement as fact, post corroborating link(s).

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II



NETTA
if one ask for a link after EVERY posters post, one would be getting free links from the work done by other posters for their library of informaiton. Without any work on their part. Thats pretty slick imo
martin II

Then why do you always ask other posters for links Martin?

You would be a good person to debate with if only you would heed your own advice.

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II



NETTA
if one ask for a link after EVERY posters post, one would be getting free links from the work done by other posters for their library of informaiton. Without any work on their part. Thats pretty slick imo martin II LOL -- you who are always asking for someone to post a link -- LOL. I don't think it should be after every post but I do think when a poster says, ". . . NO evidence at the Cantor scene. . ." then they need to corroborate that with a link. Otherwise, we can assume that one again, the poster is making wild speculations and that needs to be identified.

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


see wagner
martin II Nah, I read the trial transcripts -- facts. Wagner is supposition/speculation/fantasy.

[weezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by martin II
i think. LOL -- you're kidding, right?

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Nah, I read the trial transcripts -- facts. Wagner is supposition/speculation/fantasy.

fbg

i am sure you believe the trial trascripts 100% so more luck to you.
martin II

[martin II]

fbg

when Heidstra heard the hayhayhay voice at 10:40 p. whoes voice was that?
martin

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

i am sure you believe the trial trascripts 100% so more luck to you.
martin II I accept as fact those statements and/or evidence that can be corroborated/substantiated. I accept as speculation/theory those statements and/or evidence that can be logically concluded to be plausible. I accept as fantasy those statements that are made using innuendo and distortions of fact.

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II
fbg

when Heidstra heard the hayhayhay voice at 10:40 p. whoes voice was that?
martin I believe it was Ron.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I believe it was Ron.

i don't want to assume anything so who did the gate belong to that heidstra heard?
martinII

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


i don't want to assume anything so who did the gate belong to that heidstra heard?
martinII I believe Heidstra heard Nicole's gate

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I believe Heidstra heard Nicole's gate

fbg

do you belive that nicole was being killed at the front steps of her condo when ron arrived

and that it took about 1 1/2 minutes for the killer to kill both of them?
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

do you belive that nicole was being killed at the front steps of her condo when ron arrived

and that it took about 1 1/2 minutes for the killer to kill both of them?
martin II I believe that the attack on Nicole had already started (Kato barking before Heidstra heard, "Hey, hey, hey."). I believe Orenthal incapacitated Nicole and attacked Ron when Ron surprised him by walking though a gate that Orenthal had opened with Nicole's missing keys. I originally thought that Orenthal had gone to spy on Nicole because he was p*ssed from the earlier snubs but I have come to realize that he went there to murder her. The exactness of how many minutes/seconds it took for Orenthal to commit the murders is moot. There is credible proof that he had the time to commit the murders. There is proof that he wanted to harm her. There is proof that he had the means to harm her. There is proof that he was at the murder scene the night the murders were committed. In the 10+ years since the murders, there has not been one shred of credible evidence to disprove Orenthal James Simpson was not the murderer of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman.

[weezer]

Originally posted by Kayleighjo
Okay, was someone other kta banned because all of a sudden a bunch of pages have been removed from this thread. Are you hearing the music from the "Twilight Zone"? LOL

[weezer]

Originally posted by Kayleighjo
A bunch of netta and martin's postings were deleted.

??? anyone heard from netta today?

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I believe Orenthal incapacitated Nicole and attacked Ron when Ron surprised him by walking though a gate that Orenthal had opened with Nicole's missing keys.


fbgweezer, basically I agree with your beliefs except for one thing.

In your scenario you have Simpson opening Nicole's front gate with her keys and entering.

All of the evidence tells us Simpson parked his Bronco in the alley behind Nicole's condo.

What makes you believe that when Simpson arrived at Bundy and parked his Bronco in the alley that he would walk back out of the alley, down Dorothy St. to Bundy St. and then down Bundy to Nicole's front gate when he could have easily used the key to open the rear gate and simply walk down the walkway to get to the front of her condo?

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust



fbgweezer, basically I agree with your beliefs except for one thing.

In your scenario you have Simpson opening Nicole's front gate with her keys and entering.

All of the evidence tells us Simpson parked his Bronco in the alley behind Nicole's condo.

What makes you believe that when Simpson arrived at Bundy and parked his Bronco in the alley that he would walk back out of the alley, down Dorothy St. to Bundy St. and then down Bundy to Nicole's front gate when he could have easily used the key to open the rear gate and simply walk down the walkway to get to the front of her condo?

bobaugust

bob

i agree
whatever time oj arrived at the condo he parked in the east alley
behind her condo and entered through the back walkway.

what is your best estimate as to the time oj is said to have
attacked nicole?

[weezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by bobaugust
What makes you believe that when Simpson arrived at Bundy and parked his Bronco in the alley that he would walk back out of the alley, down Dorothy St. to Bundy St. and then down Bundy to Nicole's front gate when he could have easily used the key to open the rear gate and simply walk down the walkway to get to the front of her condo? I'm not sure why exactly I believe that is what happened. Maybe because that was what he'd done in the past -- lurked around to spy through her front windows. I also keep going back to the knife on the kitchen counter -- Maybe Nicole heard something out back and 'scared' him to the front? I don't know. If I accept the barking dog to be the start of the attack on Nicole, and the voice saying "hey, hey, hey" to be Ron's, then the front gate had to have been opened before he (Ron) got there.

Since there were no other gate keys found outside, do we know if the gate needed a key from the inside to open?

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snipped* I'm not sure why exactly I believe that is what happened. Maybe because that was what he'd done in the past -- lurked around to spy through her front windows. I also keep going back to the knife on the kitchen counter -- Maybe Nicole heard something out back and 'scared' him to the front? I don't know. If I accept the barking dog to be the start of the attack on Nicole, and the voice saying "hey, hey, hey" to be Ron's, then the front gate had to have been opened before he (Ron) got there.

Since there were no other gate keys found outside, do we know if the gate needed a key from the inside to open?

fbg

that is the question i asked you two days ago.


many have said that nicole,

1. expecting rom to arrvie, was attemping to go out to unlock the
gate in advance when oj grabbed her.

2. that ron arrived at the gate, buzzed nicole ( she was not able
to buzz the gate to unlock from the kitchen) and nicole was
going out to open the gate and oj grabbed her.
How did ron get the gate open to come in.

This still leaves the gate locked. right?
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
anyone heard from netta today?

fbg

oh how sweet. you miss him don't you?
martinII

[weezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by martin II
[B]that is the question i asked you two days ago.
__________________________________________________

what is the question you asked me two days ago?
__________________________________________________
many have said that nicole,

1. expecting rom to arrvie, was attemping to go out to unlock the
gate in advance when oj grabbed her.

2. that ron arrived at the gate, buzzed nicole ( she was not able
to buzz the gate to unlock from the kitchen) and nicole was
going out to open the gate and oj grabbed her.
How did ron get the gate open to come in.

This still leaves the gate locked. right? [QUOTE]
I really don't care what "many" have said. My theory is that Orenthal opened the gate with Nicole's missing keys. She may have heard that and walked out front where he attacked her -- I don't know. But I do not believe a woman would put a kitchen knife out on a counter, run bath water, unlock a gate to a busy street. This makes no sense to me.

[alien]

Originally posted by Kayleighjo
Okay, was someone other kta banned because all of a sudden a bunch of pages have been removed from this thread.


When did kta get banned and for what reason.

I swear sometimes I think I am hallucinating because every time I get back on "board" there are pages missing.

It would be nice if the moderator would let us know what is going on.

[martin II]

Originally posted by alien



When did kta get banned and for what reason.

I swear sometimes I think I am hallucinating because every time I get back on "board" there are pages missing.

It would be nice if the moderator would let us know what is going on.

alien

how is Mr alien?

didn't you ask this question about kta the day the moderator posted a post here?

martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


But, how would it have remained open? Wouldn't it have closed behind him when we stepped forward to get Nicole?

Perhaps because she didn't know precisely when Ron would show up & he couldn't buzz her (I think I recall the buzzer being broken?) and she wanted to take a bath, she put something there to prop open the gate. Not so that it was visably open, if you know what I mean. Like a little piece of cardboard, something along those lines? Just a guess.... Do we know if it automatically locked when it closed?

I think the knife on the counter and the earlier upsetting call with Orenthal contradicts her unlocking that gate. I don't think she would have been walking around eating ice cream, lighting candles and preparing for a bath knowing that that gate was unlocked. And if she was waiting on Ron, she could have easily stood watch at her window and gone out whenhe walked up.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snipped* what is the question you asked me two days ago?
__________________________________________________
many have said that nicole,

1. expecting rom to arrvie, was attemping to go out to unlock the
gate in advance when oj grabbed her.

2. that ron arrived at the gate, buzzed nicole ( she was not able
to buzz the gate to unlock from the kitchen) and nicole was
going out to open the gate and oj grabbed her.
How did ron get the gate open to come in.

This still leaves the gate locked. right? [QUOTE]
I really don't care what "many" have said. My theory is that Orenthal opened the gate with Nicole's missing keys. She may have heard that and walked out front where he attacked her -- I don't know. But I do not believe a woman would put a kitchen knife out on a counter, run bath water, unlock a gate to a busy street. This makes no sense to me.

fbg
two- three days ago i asked you how did ron get in the gate.

why would oj park in the alley next to the back gate and not use the keys you said he had to open the back gate. if he did have the keys?
i suggest you give it some more thought.
martin II

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


bob

i agree
whatever time oj arrived at the condo he parked in the east alley
behind her condo and entered through the back walkway.

what is your best estimate as to the time oj is said to have
attacked nicole?

Oh my goodness, I really am hallucinating. Martini said he agreed with bob. He even said that OJ "arrived" at the condo".

I will try to be more serious from no on.

[alien]

Originally posted by alien


Oh my goodness, I really am hallucinating. Martini said he agreed with bob. He even said that OJ "arrived" at the condo".

I will try to be more serious from no on.

Posting to myself. I meant to say Martin11

[martin II]

Originally posted by alien


Oh my goodness, I really am hallucinating. Martini said he agreed with bob. He even said that OJ "arrived" at the condo".

I will try to be more serious from no on.

alien

Not so fast.
read my post again.

do you know for a fact what time oj arrived at the condo. Please be exact as possible.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by alien


Posting to myself. I meant to say Martin11

alien



"Martini" said he

whats on your mind?
MARTIN ii:beer:

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Kayleighjo


You know what Martin, Hotwater zapped a bunch of your postings so it's clear she's not happy. Kepp it up why don't you so that you can get banned and reincarnate yet again.

I agree.

Hotwater went on a limb and gave us a chance with this board and all some individuals seem content to do is take advantage and watch it sink until we are left with no where to post. That would be a shame.

If Martin spent half as much time working on his own issues as he spends digging into other posters then we may have a functional and intellectual debate forum.

[martin II]

ALIEN

Did oj arrive before the muders or after?
martinII

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


alien

Not so fast.
read my post again.

do you know for a fact what time oj arrived at the condo. Please be exact as possible.
martin II

bob
i agree
whatever time oj arrived at the condo he parked in the east alley
behind her condo and entered through the back walkway.

martin, this is what my eyes read. My interpratation was that you were agreeing with bob and agreed that OJ arrived (was at the condo). Was I that wrong?

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by alien



When did kta get banned and for what reason.

I swear sometimes I think I am hallucinating because every time I get back on "board" there are pages missing.

It would be nice if the moderator would let us know what is going on.

kta appears to have banned for using a word to describe how she felt about the way that jurors viewed Nicole Brown.

I find it a sin and a shame, considering the fact that a man who blatantly states that a woman deserved her beating at the hands of her husband (RayRaytwo/Martin II to Kayleigh) is allowed to post nonsense on an hourly basis.

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I don't know if it automatically locked when it closed. I guess I'm assuming it did & I shouldn't assume anything.

I thought of the same thing: why leave the gate unsecured if she got an upsetting call from Orenthal?

I can not imagine Orenthal parking in the alley & walking around the corner to enter on Bundy. I think it was far too risky. I think he entered the back. Wouldn't it have been riskier for him to have been parked right behind Nicole's?

[weezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by socaldiva
I don't know if it automatically locked when it closed. I guess I'm assuming it did & I shouldn't assume anything.
If it automatically locked, then how was it open when the bodies were found?

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I don't know if it automatically locked when it closed. I guess I'm assuming it did & I shouldn't assume anything.

I thought of the same thing: why leave the gate unsecured if she got an upsetting call from Orenthal?

I can not imagine Orenthal parking in the alley & walking around the corner to enter on Bundy. I think it was far too risky. I think he entered the back.

Oddly enough, I hadn't given much thought to which direction OJ entered from. But I would think that you have an excellent point regarding entrance from Bundy being too risky. The street was apparently known to remain busy at all hours of the day and night.

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Not to me. The risk of himself or his car being spotted on Bundy would have been greater.

After all, he did park back there & no one reported seeing him or the car......Even Heidstra doesn't see what is assumed to be the Bronco til he reached the intersection of Bundy & Dorothy.

If per chance the Bronco would have been spotted, he could have just b.s'd & said it wasn't his car, or the witness must have mistaken the day etc. He seemed to do a lot of that on other issues. But...he wasn't spotted. Okay -- that makes sense. Now let ask this: If he was going there to hurt her, why would he park behind her condo and alert her that he was there? He knew that she'd called the police on him in the past and I believe their animous had reached such a proportion that she would have again.

[martin II]

Originally posted by alien


bob
i agree
whatever time oj arrived at the condo he parked in the east alley
behind her condo and entered through the back walkway.

martin, this is what my eyes read. My interpratation was that you were agreeing with bob and agreed that OJ arrived (was at the condo). Was I that wrong?

alien

whatever time = does not mean before the murders.
martin II

[weezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by socaldiva
As for the gate being left open & the automatic lock, I think we were talking about 2 different things somewhat. I wasn't saying that I thought it would automatically close after you entered, but that it wouldn't require a key to lock it. I think it would be locked, you'd get buzzed in & the gate would remain in a locked position after you enter & closed it. bobaugust, wukong -- someone help us out here. I remember the guy who found the bodies being questioned about the gate by MC and when asked, he said he did not see the gate. To me this meant that it was not closed. Also, had the gate been closed, wouldn't there have been something in the police reports about gaining access to the property because the gate was closed and locked like at Rockingham?

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II
ALIEN

Did oj arrive before the muders or after?
martinII Duh -- he brought the knife so it would had to have been before.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snipped* If it automatically locked, then how was it open when the bodies were found?

fbg

that is ONE of the reason wagner says the killerS left by the front gate to a van that drove them from the crime scene.
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


But I don't dispute the gate being open after the murders. I'm sure it was. Again, we are talking about locking & automatic closure, two different things. I think that Ron opened it, was attacked & it was never closed. It remained open. imo Oh, I wasn't arguing with you. LOL -- I was hoping to clear up my own questions.

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


But I don't dispute the gate being open after the murders. I'm sure it was. Again, we are talking about locking & automatic closure, two different things. I think that Ron opened it, was attacked & it was never closed. It remained open. imo then what do you think Heidstra heard when he said Nicole's gate banged?

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snipped* bobaugust, wukong -- someone help us out here. I remember the guy who found the bodies being questioned about the gate by MC and when asked, he said he did not see the gate. To me this meant that it was not closed. Also, had the gate been closed, wouldn't there have been something in the police reports about gaining access to the property because the gate was closed and locked like at Rockingham?

fbg

when the dog brought the man to the scene he stood on the sidewalk and looked right into nicole on the ground. so the gate was open
martinII

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

that is ONE of the reason wagner says the killerS left by the front gate to a van that drove them from the crime scene.
martin II IF Orenthal wouldn't park out front because he didn't want to be seen going in, why do you think a van load of killers would pile into a van out front of a place where they had committed a double murder and a dog was wailing?

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


No, I didn't think you were arguing at all. Doesn't it make sense that it LOCKS automatically, after you are buzzed in? Different than CLOSING automatically. Maybe I need another nap. I think it makes sense. :D Yes that does make sense but then what did Heidstra hear?

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I think she would have called LE too, if she had known he was out there. I don't think she would have heard him park back there. I think it's far enough from the front of the house, that you wouldn't hear it.

As for the gate being left open & the automatic lock, I think we were talking about 2 different things somewhat. I wasn't saying that I thought it would automatically close after you entered, but that it wouldn't require a key to lock it. I think it would be locked, you'd get buzzed in & the gate would remain in a locked position after you enter & closed it.



socaldiva, I've always speculated, speculation based on the facts we know, that by 10:30 Nicole's bath was ready and she decided not to wait for Ron to arrive.

The evidence is that the gate release button on her intercom in her kitchen was not working, so she walked outside barefoot accompanied by her dog to unlatch the front gate so Ron could let himself in. There is no evidence that Simpson alerted Nicole in any way what his intentions were when he called at about 9:00 to speak to Sydney. I believe he was just confirming the fact that she would be at home. Simpson had already planned out what he wanted to do at that time. He had already changed his clothing wearing the dark colored sweat suit.

Nicole went to the front gate and unlatched it so Ron could open it from the outside. On her way back to her front door she encountered Simpson who had parked his Bronco in the alley and made his way down the walkway. As they talked Simpson let his dog out the gate. He only had to open it enough so the dog could run out, that's what all male dogs do when given the opportunity. When it closed it still remained unlatched.

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
then what do you think Heidstra heard when he said Nicole's gate banged?
fbg

It is thought that ron came to the gate, looked, saw nicole and oj.

ron says hay hay hay. how did ron get into the gate so that it would slam?????
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


The back gate when OJ leaves. Ahh -- maybe so. I had this scenario in my head where Ron walks up, Kato is barking at Orenthal, Orenthal has started the attack on Nicole, Ron sees someone standing over Nicole and yells hey, hey, hey as he runs through the gate. I'd always assumed that was the gate that made the noise.

[martin II]

bob

so you believe that nicole had already been spooked about the noise in the back so much that she took out a knife in the kitchen.
then saw oj in the front yard in black suite. cap maby knife in hand, watched as oj open the gate and let the dog out. had a conversation and did not flee back inside?
martin II

[weezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by bobaugust
The evidence is that the gate release button on her intercom in her kitchen was not working, so she walked outside barefoot accompanied by her dog to unlatch the front gate so Ron could let himself in. I'm a female and maybe I see things differently than you. Nicole was very concerned about the missing keys. Family and friends said Nicole was very security conscious and kept the house locked and secured. I do not see where any female would unlatch a gate to a busy street (because that would also mean that she would leave her front door open because she would be in the bath) -- I bet if you take a vote, the majority of women would tell you no way. And the majority of them do not have a psycho, abusing, stalking ex-husband.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
IF Orenthal wouldn't park out front because he didn't want to be seen going in, why do you think a van load of killers would pile into a van out front of a place where they had committed a double murder and a dog was wailing?

the van could have been parked down the street. the whole thing
only too a few minutes right?
martin II

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by socaldiva


The back gate when OJ leaves.


socaldiva, Heidstra said he heard Nicole's front gate slam.

Heidstra said that first he heard a young male voice yell "Hey, hey, hey!" and then an older male yell back. Some seconds later he heard Nicole's front gate slam.

My speculation, when Simpson yelled back at Ron he moved to attack him. Simpson was bigger and stronger than Goldman and he was armed with a knife in a small enclosed area. Ron would have no chance. I speculated that Ron turned and pushed the gate open to get outside and where he could run or fight. Simpson grabbed Ron from behind. As Ron was pulled back in, he could have been holding onto the gate pulling it closed and causing it to slam hard enough to not latch but bounce back open when he let go of it.

Is this a realistic possibility? Maybe. No one knows what actually happened but if anyone can come up with a different scenario that fits what Heidstra said he heard and fits what other witnesses said I'd be interested in reading it.

bobaugust

[martin II]

fbg

the next question is:
oj was suppose to have arrived at bundy at 10;30p

when found, the dog had blood on his belly and paws. indicating that he had MABY sat on his belly by nicole for some minutes or sat down in the scene for a few minutes. this was after the gate slam 10:40 pm and the murder.

heidstra said the dog was on bundy barking at 10:35. i assume near the condo or near bundy and gorham where heidstra was at 10:35.

when did the dog walk down Dorothy st near Storfer's house?
they heard the dog barking at 10:20 latest. stein that lives next to nicole in the east alley said she heard it at 10:15.

martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust



socaldiva, Heidstra said he heard Nicole's front gate slam.

Heidstra said that first he heard a young male voice yell "Hey, hey, hey!" and then an older male yell back. Some seconds later he heard Nicole's front gate slam.

My speculation, when Simpson yelled back at Ron he moved to attack him. Simpson was bigger and stronger than Goldman and he was armed with a knife in a small enclosed area. Ron would have no chance. I speculated that Ron turned and pushed the gate open to get outside and where he could run or fight. Simpson grabbed Ron from behind. As Ron was pulled back in, he could have been holding onto the gate pulling it closed and causing it to slam hard enough to not latch but bounce back open when he let go of it.

Is this a realistic possibility? Maybe. No one knows what actually happened but if anyone can come up with a different scenario that fits what Heidstra said he heard and fits what other witnesses said I'd be interested in reading it.

bobaugust

bob
Ron, some how held on to the gate?? then slammed it so hard that heidstra heard it in the east alley behind the house BUT THE GATE DID NOT LATCH???
Martin II

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


when found, the dog had blood on his belly and paws. indicating that he had MABY sat on his belly by nicole for some minutes or sat down in the scene for a few minutes. this was after the gate slam 10:40 pm and the murder.

heidstra said the dog was on bundy barking at 10:35. i assume near the condo or near bundy and gorham where heidstra was at 10:35.

when did the dog walk down Dorothy st near Storfer's house?
they heard the dog barking at 10:20 latest. stein that lives next to nicole in the east alley said she heard it at 10:15.

martin II


martin II , Stein's estimate was not very reliable. Stein said she heard dogs barking, not one dog. Stein said she was lying in bed and only estimated what time she heard the barking start as about a half an hour before Karpf got home. She said Karpf told her he got home about 10:45. That's how she arrived at 10:15. I certainty can't and I know of no one that can estimate when 30 minutes goes by especially lying in bed trying to sleep. Her estimate is not very reliable.

Storfer's testimony, as Wukong says is troubling. Even though his clock was not set correctly he supposedly took that into account. But again clock times are not real times. Storfer proves that with his testimony. Who knows if the difference in time was what he thought it was.

Storfer says that he heard loud, persistent barking at 10:20 from inside his house. Pilnak and Telander were not far down the street outside on that quiet still night at 10:20 and they never heard any barking at that time.

Mandel and Aaronson were walking outside towards Nicole's condo at 10:20 on that quiet still night, and they never heard any barking at that time.

Heidstra was walking his two dogs going towards Nicole's condo at 10:20 on that quiet night and he never said that he nor his dogs ever heard any dog barking at that time.

Storfer told how after he heard the dog barking from inside his house that it was so loud and persistent he was afraid it would wake his son up. He said he then went to bed but he "slept very lightly because the dog continued to bark,"

Based on what Storfer says he heard, it's the same thing that Heidstra said he heard. But Heidstra was outside and closer to the dog than Storfer was making Heidstra's time estimates more reliable than Storfer's. Pilnak, Telander, Mandel and Aaronson all testified to facts that are consistent with Heidstra's testimony, not Storfer's.

You think the dog got blood on it's belly from lying in blood for a few minutes. The dog could have been splashed with blood when it walked through it or it may very well have lied down but as to a few minutes there is no evidence of that. It may have only been seconds.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


bob
Ron, some how held on to the gate?? then slammed it so hard that heidstra heard it in the east alley behind the house BUT THE GATE DID NOT LATCH???
Martin II


martin II, that's correct the gate did not latch.

I don't know what your life experience is with gates but some gates can be slammed shut so hard that they do not latch and hold they bounce back. That's what very well could have happened at Bundy. When the bodies were discovered the gate was open.

bobaugust

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


alien

how is Mr alien?

didn't you ask this question about kta the day the moderator posted a post here?

martin II

martin,

Mr Alien is feeling much better. Thanks for asking.

I am not sure about your second question in this post. I remember asking about another poster who was banned and the moderator let us know about it. I just wonder why they don't let us know each time. I am a NOSY ROSY kind of person.

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


alien



"Martini" said he

whats on your mind?
MARTIN ii:beer:

It was a type-o kind of thing.

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II
ALIEN

Did oj arrive before the muders or after?
martinII

Consideing the fact that I think OJ is guilty, I'm going with "before".

[alien]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Well I would have asked, but I forgot :mad: I'm glad he's feeling better :D

Thanks. Not sure what the deal was, but he has had health issues in the past so every time he gets sick, I get a little stressed.

I told Mr Alien he better hang around for a very long time. :)

[Wukong]

Don't worry, I heard Aliens live for a long, long time:)

Let's see who can guess what Netta's new Nic will be. The last two were Netta30 and Nettathirty. I'm not sure I'm any good at this because I was thinking rayray would become rayrayray (Sort of like hayhayhay).

My guess is: Netta31 (not too creative but I see a pattern)

Wukong

[martin II]

Originally posted by Wukong
Don't worry, I heard Aliens live for a long, long time:)

Let's see who can guess what Netta's new Nic will be. The last two were Netta30 and Nettathirty. I'm not sure I'm any good at this because I was thinking rayray would become rayrayray (Sort of like hayhayhay).

My guess is: Netta31 (not too creative but I see a pattern)

Wukong

wukong

netta was banned???
martin II

[alien]

Originally posted by Wukong
Don't worry, I heard Aliens live for a long, long time:)

Let's see who can guess what Netta's new Nic will be. The last two were Netta30 and Nettathirty. I'm not sure I'm any good at this because I was thinking rayray would become rayrayray (Sort of like hayhayhay).

My guess is: Netta31 (not too creative but I see a pattern)

Wukong

Thanks Wukong for the encouraging words. Mr Alien is a very special guy.

:)

I noticed that martin asked you about netta getting banned. I know about kta, but not netta. When did that happen? I am concerned that the moderator is going to get a little frustrated and close down this board and I would hate to see that happen.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I accept as fact those statements and/or evidence that can be corroborated/substantiated. I accept as speculation/theory those statements and/or evidence that can be logically concluded to be plausible. I accept as fantasy those statements that are made using innuendo and distortions of fact.

fbg

that sounds logical.

example

when Mazolla first testified she said she HAD put her initials on ALL of the envelopes that included samples she handeled as a means of personal identification.

In a later testiomony when the defense lawyer presented her with all of what was suppose to be the same envelopes and her initials were NOT on any of them, she was asked WHY this was.
she responded. i don't know.

later on she then changed her original testimnony and said i must not have put my initials on any of them.

Now, if one is inclined to believe all of the prosecutions witnesses, one would just say, oh, she was just mistaken about what she was doing/did when she processed the samples.

if one is on the jury and hears her say that she does not know what happened or that there is no explination for her initials NOT
now being on the samples and simply says, well, i must have been mistaken, could you as a jury member believe that it was possible that samples could have been tampered with?
martin II

[martin II]

bob

Possible mob motive for wanting nicole killed.

if oj was deelpy involved in the mob operated sports gambling business for some time and nicole had been very concerned that if there was a big bust, their lives would be turned upside down and this would effect their life directly.

That she was on oj constantly to stop and oj finally told the mob that he was out because his wife was causing him trouble about his involvement. That they said no way you can you quit. That the mob then decided that nicole was at the root of the problem and that she should be eliminated.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust



martin II, that's correct the gate did not latch.

I don't know what your life experience is with gates but some gates can be slammed shut so hard that they do not latch and hold they bounce back. That's what very well could have happened at Bundy. When the bodies were discovered the gate was open.

bobaugust

bob
ron , being grabbed and cut by a killer was able to hold on to a gate that he slammed so hard that it bounced back open and heidstra heard it from behind the house across the street?

ron must have had exceptional concentration skills.
martin II

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


bob
ron , being grabbed and cut by a killer was able to hold on to a gate that he slammed so hard that it bounced back open and heidstra heard it from behind the house across the street?

ron must have had exceptional concentration skills.
martin II

Good morning, martin.

I would think it might just be a reflex action rather than concentration.

[martin II]

Originally posted by alien


Good morning, martin.

I would think it might just be a reflex action rather than concentration.

alien
in a fight for his life with a killer , he was able to hold on to a gate.
martin II

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


alien
in a fight for his life with a killer , he was able to hold on to a gate.
martin II

I guess since I have never been in a fight for my life I can't be specific. However, I would think that a person my do some strange things in that situation.

[weezer]

Originally posted by bobaugust
socaldiva, I've always speculated, speculation based on the facts we know, that by 10:30 Nicole's bath was ready and she decided not to wait for Ron to arrive.

The evidence is that the gate release button on her intercom in her kitchen was not working, so she walked outside barefoot accompanied by her dog to unlatch the front gate so Ron could let himself in. There is no evidence that Simpson alerted Nicole in any way what his intentions were when he called at about 9:00 to speak to Sydney. I believe he was just confirming the fact that she would be at home. Simpson had already planned out what he wanted to do at that time. He had already changed his clothing wearing the dark colored sweat suit.

Nicole went to the front gate and unlatched it so Ron could open it from the outside. On her way back to her front door she encountered Simpson who had parked his Bronco in the alley and made his way down the walkway. As they talked Simpson let his dog out the gate. He only had to open it enough so the dog could run out, that's what all male dogs do when given the opportunity. When it closed it still remained unlatched. Here are my questions:

1. Nicole decided that Ron's was either not coming or was going to be delayed enough to allow her time for a bath and she began to prepare the bath.

2. Could Ron have possibly called her to say he was on his way. Although I don't know why she wouldn't have let the water out of the tub if she knew she wasn't going right in. I would have drawn a warm bath later when I was actually taking my bath.[/I] I believe she went downstairs to get her ice cream to bring up to the bath.

3. Music, candles, ice cream and warm bath -- sounds like she really, really needed to destress. This is one of the reasons that I believe it was Orenthal on the phone earlier that upset her so much. It is also why I don't believe she would have left the gate open.

4. I believe she heard something outside that drew her to go out the front door -- Maybe Kato was already out? Could have thought,"Oh, that must be Ron at the front gate." or "I need to let Kato back in before I go upstairs." I've accepted the assertion that Orenthal entered through the back gate - the arguments for that happening make sense.

5. Evidence is that Nicole was attacked first and that the dog started barking before the "Hey, hey, hey." After Nicole being knocked to the ground, could Orenthal have been at the gate trying to get Kato out when Ron came up?

[alien]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Here are my questions:



5. Evidence is that Nicole was attacked first and that the dog started barking before the "Hey, hey, hey." After Nicole being knocked to the ground, could Orenthal have been at the gate trying to get Kato out when Ron came up?

Good morning to you weezer.

I think this is one aspect of the case that we will never really know the answer to. We know about the dog barking and the "Hey, hey, hey". My thoughts are that Ron might not have yelled out at OJ at the gate letting the dog out because OJ may have just been visiting Nicole. However, if Ron came upon the scene of OJ attacking Nicole (hitting her unconscious) he would have yelled and then opened the gate (we have to believe that the gate was able to be opened). Is it possible that Kato ran out to let someone know? Dogs are really smart and he may have been trying to alert someone to come and help.

Tis a mystery, isn't it?

[weezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by alien
My thoughts are that Ron might not have yelled out at OJ at the gate letting the dog out because OJ may have just been visiting Nicole. However, if Ron came upon the scene of OJ attacking Nicole (hitting her unconscious) he would have yelled and then opened the gate (we have to believe that the gate was able to be opened). Is it possible that Kato ran out to let someone know? Good morning. Hope Mr. Alien is still on the mend.

Remember though, Orenthal was dressed in black, had on the knit cap and gloves -- Cochran may have been wrong -- Orenthal with a hat may not have still been Orenthal with a hat. Walking into that scene in the dark of night, Ron probably didn't recognize the figure to be Orenthal.

[alien]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snipped* Good morning. Hope Mr. Alien is still on the mend.

Remember though, Orenthal was dressed in black, had on the knit cap and gloves -- Cochran may have been wrong -- Orenthal with a hat may not have still been Orenthal with a hat. Walking into that scene in the dark of night, Ron probably didn't recognize the figure to be Orenthal.

Very sweet of you to ask about Mr Alien. He is back to his normal self again. Like I said before he had some health issues so I tend to stress when he doesn't feel well. He is one of the most important people in my life and I want him around for a very long time. Thank you so much.

You make a very valid point. That why I said it was a mystery. Do you think that Ron recognized OJ because his face wasn't hidden. Was there any light at all? Of course, I suppose that if Ron came upon the scene, it would not matter who was attacking Nicole, he would still react.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Here are my questions:

1. Nicole decided that Ron's was either not coming or was going to be delayed enough to allow her time for a bath and she began to prepare the bath.

2. Could Ron have possibly called her to say he was on his way. Although I don't know why she wouldn't have let the water out of the tub if she knew she wasn't going right in. I would have drawn a warm bath later when I was actually taking my bath.[/I] I believe she went downstairs to get her ice cream to bring up to the bath.

3. Music, candles, ice cream and warm bath -- sounds like she really, really needed to destress. This is one of the reasons that I believe it was Orenthal on the phone earlier that upset her so much. It is also why I don't believe she would have left the gate open.

4. I believe she heard something outside that drew her to go out the front door -- Maybe Kato was already out? Could have thought,"Oh, that must be Ron at the front gate." or "I need to let Kato back in before I go upstairs." I've accepted the assertion that Orenthal entered through the back gate - the arguments for that happening make sense.

5. Evidence is that Nicole was attacked first and that the dog started barking before the "Hey, hey, hey." After Nicole being knocked to the ground, could Orenthal have been at the gate trying to get Kato out when Ron came up?

fbg

no 5

nicole on the ground out cold. she has not been cut as yet and there is no blood.

oj at gate putting the Akita out as ron arrives. someone says hay hay hay. and gate slams. dog is out on bundy barking.

problem is no one has been cut when the dog is put out but the dog has blood on his paws and belly when he is out barking.
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

no 5

nicole on the ground out cold. she has not been cut as yet and there is no blood.

oj at gate putting the Akita out as ron arrives. someone says hay hay hay. and gate slams. dog is out on bundy barking.

problem is no one has been cut when the dog is put out but the dog has blood on his paws and belly when he is out barking.
martin II Evidence shows that the gate was open and that the pawprints trailed up and down the walk -- from the body to the sidewalk and back. If the dog was barking at the attack on Ron, since the attack took place next to the fence along the sidewalk, would it sound like the dog was in the street?

[alien]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Good Morning all,

I think Orenthal had already begun the attack on Nicole & she was already down when Ron arrived. Otherwise it would have it would have been more difficult to control 2 people at once & there would have probably been more noise. jmo

Good Morning. Hope you are having a nice sunny morning.

I think you are correct on the attack on Nicole and the noise that would have been made. I posted earlier that I thought Nicole was unconcious. And to add, I don't think that Nicole would have been much of a match for OJ.

[weezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by socaldiva
I think Orenthal had already begun the attack on Nicole & she was already down when Ron arrived. Otherwise it would have it would have been more difficult to control 2 people at once & there would have probably been more noise. jmo I agree. I'm just wondering if maybe he was struggling to get the dog out the gate and away from the attack.

Here's a thought. Maybe it wasn't the gate slamming shut but rather the fight starting against it? You know, like when you run into the gate and it makes that noise.

[alien]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snipped* I agree. I'm just wondering if maybe he was struggling to get the dog out the gate and away from the attack.

Here's a thought. Maybe it wasn't the gate slamming shut but rather the fight starting against it? You know, like when you run into the gate and it makes that noise.

Going with that thought. What if OJ had already lost the one glove and the dog bit him as he was struggling to get the dog out? What if the dog got the glove off? But, I suppose that there would be bite marks on the glove. However, aren't dog bites pretty nasty?

I would agree that a person being pushed against a fence with a lot of force would make a noise on the fence. And maybe it caused it to swing open and then slam shut.

I really hate to leave this discussion, but I have to get some sleep for my overnight shift. I will check back tonight for posts.

Ya'll have a wonderful day. The sun is shining bright here and I hate to miss it, but Old Grandma Alien has to have her beauty sleep. Okay, there isn't that many hours to make that happen, but I can hope. ;)

See ya later. :seeya:

[martin II]

Originally posted by alien


Good morning to you weezer.

I think this is one aspect of the case that we will never really know the answer to. We know about the dog barking and the "Hey, hey, hey". My thoughts are that Ron might not have yelled out at OJ at the gate letting the dog out because OJ may have just been visiting Nicole. However, if Ron came upon the scene of OJ attacking Nicole (hitting her unconscious) he would have yelled and then opened the gate (we have to believe that the gate was able to be opened). Is it possible that Kato ran out to let someone know? Dogs are really smart and he may have been trying to alert someone to come and help.

Tis a mystery, isn't it?

alien
consider this:

nicole and ron already murdered and killers leave the gate open.

The Akita come from the house , sees nicole,tracks in blood and goes out the open gate to bundy barking confused.

heidstra hears the dog barking in the street about 10;35

dog is in the middle of the street in the way of a passing car and the driver yells hay hay hay. (heidstra hears this) 10;40

the man that lives next door to nicole that was at his mail box getting his mail see the Akita in front of his house acting out of control and he retreats beck inside his yard and slams the gate (heidstra hears this)

chris darden said there were 56 homes in that block with metal gates.
martin II

[weezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by socaldiva
[B]". . . but I don't think you'd have to struggle to get the dog out of the gate. Most would welcome getting out. . ." B] I think I must not be making myself clear. I don't think he would have to fight Kato to get him out the gate but with the dog barking, I guess I assumed that he would be moving around also -- jumping at, etc. I can't let he dog in the house or he'll wake the kids so I go for the gate. These are only thoughts as to how the gate was opened when Ron got there since I can't reconcile myself to Nicole unlocking that gate and going in to take a bath.

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Sorry, it might be me.:tongue:

I see what you mean. I've never had an Akita, so I don't know if they are typically "jumpers" when they are excited & barking. The other thing I am trying to say is that I don't believe Orenthal would be strolling down the walkway to get Kato out of the gate and if Ron walked up on a figure dressed in black and Kato barking the loud persistent wail, I can imagine Ron being caught off guard and shouting, "Hey, hey, hey."

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Evidence shows that the gate was open and that the pawprints trailed up and down the walk -- from the body to the sidewalk and back. If the dog was barking at the attack on Ron, since the attack took place next to the fence along the sidewalk, would it sound like the dog was in the street?

the gate was open after the murders.
the distance from the street to the gate is about 10 feet. count the tiles in the picture. the man next door SAW the dog in the street.

martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
The other thing I am trying to say is that I don't believe Orenthal would be strolling down the walkway to get Kato out of the gate and if Ron walked up on a figure dressed in black and Kato barking the loud persistent wail, I can imagine Ron being caught off guard and shouting, "Hey, hey, hey."

fbg

the distance from nicole to the gate is only about 4-5- feet
oj would not have to stroll
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


But my recollection of the layout is that the gate was "right there" so to speak. Orenthal wouldn't have to go "down a walk way" to get the dog out. I didn't mean to infer that there was a long walkway, I only meant that he would have been moving toward the sidewalk with Kato barking and possibly not wanting to go out the gate.

Okay -- I'm sure everyone is done with remedial fbgweezer and the gate. LOL

[bandit's mom]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Thankfully, I've never had a psycho, abusing, stalking ex-husband, but I would leave my gate unlatched for a short period if I had an Akita to bark and alert me. You could leave the front door closed, but unlocked. I don't know what I would do if I did have the afore-mentioned husband though.

Same here, I have an ex-husband, but he remains a good
friend. I actually live in a condo with a front courtyard
and gate and I have a large dog, although unlike an Akita,
mine is a Collie, definitely not a guard dog. I often leave
my gate unlocked if I am expecting someone. Wouldn't really
think twice about it. Actually the only time I really worry about
locking it is if I'm leaving the house.

Of course, like you, I have never lived in fear of an ex. But,
I still have to question that to some degree. Yes, Nicole knew
that OJ was spying on her and that he could be violent. But
would she honestly believe that the man she loved most
of her adult life, the father of her children, would be skulking
around planning to murder her? I would think it more likely
that she would be frightened that if they had another major
fight he would hurt her, possibly kill her, but in the heat
of the moment. Not in a premeditated sneak attack.
I have to think that is just something that most people cannot
really believe will happen to them.

[martin II]

i think there is something wrong with heidstras times. think it is possible that he was standing in certain spots longer than he thinks he was.

when he was in the street 6/12 he did not know a murder had taken place. maby next day he heard and then set his timeline
martin II

[weezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by bandit's mom
I have to think that is just something that most people cannot
really believe will happen to them. Nicole knew from the 1989 beating that he would kill her. She told the police, she told friends, she told the counselor at the women's shelter and she wrote it in her diary.

According to testimony, she was very worried about the missing keys. Evidence is that Orenthal called after the concert. He said to talk to Sydney. Sydney says her mother was crying and upset while talking to a 'friend' on the phone -- I happen to believe that friend was Orenthal. Testimony from AC (I will discount her friends and family testimony for the sake of this argument alone) was that Orenthal used foul and vicious language when talking to and about Nicole when he was angry with her. Evidence proves that he did not stop with just words but was capable and willing to take it to a physical level. I can only imagine what he said on the phone. I do not think that within minutes of that call she would have unlocked that gate.

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II
i think there is something wrong with heidstras times. think it is possible that he was standing in certain spots longer than he thinks he was.

when he was in the street 6/12 he did not know a murder had taken place. maby next day he heard and then set his timeline
martin II Another conspiracy? Geez. Heidstra's testimony is corroborated by at least 4 other people.

[martin II]

Originally posted by bandit's mom


Same here, I have an ex-husband, but he remains a good
friend. I actually live in a condo with a front courtyard
and gate and I have a large dog, although unlike an Akita,
mine is a Collie, definitely not a guard dog. I often leave
my gate unlocked if I am expecting someone. Wouldn't really
think twice about it. Actually the only time I really worry about
locking it is if I'm leaving the house.

Of course, like you, I have never lived in fear of an ex. But,
I still have to question that to some degree. Yes, Nicole knew
that OJ was spying on her and that he could be violent. But
would she honestly believe that the man she loved most
of her adult life, the father of her children, would be skulking
around planning to murder her? I would think it more likely
that she would be frightened that if they had another major
fight he would hurt her, possibly kill her, but in the heat
of the moment. Not in a premeditated sneak attack.
I have to think that is just something that most people cannot
really believe will happen to them.

some have assumed that the way nicole had treated oj earlied that day/evening was what set him off. She had to know that he would be very pissed off because of this.

i think she would have been alert that evening.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Another conspiracy? Geez. Heidstra's testimony is corroborated by at least 4 other people.

fbg

when you don't have a answer, what do you do? stay stuck or look for other possibilities?
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

when you don't have a answer, what do you do? stay stuck or look for other possibilities?
martin II I look for other possibilities BUT I try not to contradict evidence and testimony. I believe Heidstra's testimony was corroborated by other witnesses and for the most part, was plausible.

[bandit's mom]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bobaugust
[B]

You think the dog got blood on it's belly from lying in blood for a few minutes. The dog could have been splashed with blood when it walked through it or it may very well have lied down but as to a few minutes there is no evidence of that. It may have only been seconds.

He could have gotten the blood on his belly from inspecting
Nicole too. It would be perfectly normal for the dog to have
sniffed her, sort of the dog worlds way of "checking" on
someone. When my dog passed away at home several years
ago, our other dog, as well as the cats, all "sniffed" at him
as if assuring themselves he was gone.

[bandit's mom]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I don't think the dog bit him, or fought with him in any way. Sweet dreams, hope to see you later :seeya:

I agree. This was OJ's dog. That would explain the confused,
frantic barking when OJ attacked Nicole. But attacking
his master is another thing altogether.

We used to have a Collie that we would tease by pretending
to hit each other (OK, juvenile I know, what I can I say?) I would
"hit" my husband or he me, obviously not real hits, and
the "victim" would sort of cower and act afraid. The poor
dog would bark constantly at the "attacker" and be frantic to get us to stop. But, never, ever would he have bitten either of us.
I still believe had the attacker been anyone other than OJ,
there would have been plenty of the attackers blood around,
because an Akita would have torn him apart. Akita's can
be wonderful family dogs, but they have a very instinctive
protectiveness to their owners, as do most dogs, of course.
But they are big and strong enough to inflict plenty of damage
if one of their people is being attacked.

[weezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by bandit's mom
[BHe could have gotten the blood on his belly from inspecting
Nicole too. [/B] Yes, I could see Kato moving around Nicole's body trying to get her to react --

Hmm, wonder if he also had Ron's blood on him?

[goatgirl]

May 19-



happy Birthday Nicole Brown


RIP



GoatGirl


:rose:

[weezer]

Originally posted by goatgirl
May 19-

happy Birthday Nicole Brown

RIP
:rose: :rose: He said he doesn't remember the date of your death -- wonder if he remembers your birthday?

[goatgirl]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
:rose: He said he doesn't remember the date of your death -- wonder if he remembers your birthday?

well...according to OJ he said he takes the kids out to toast their Mother every b-day so who knows....

either way-its Nicoles b-day & my thoughts are with her & the family as it should be :)

RIP Nicole

:rose:

[goatgirl]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fbgweezer
[B] Not sure why you PM'd me with this message but I feel that it should be answered in the light.



Not for nothing but I thought your not allowed to post PM messages on the boards....:shrug:

GoatGirl :)

[weezer]

Originally posted by goatgirl
[QUOTE]Originally posted by fbgweezer
[B] Not sure why you PM'd me with this message but I feel that it should be answered in the light.



Not for nothing but I thought your not allowed to post PM messages on the boards....:shrug:

GoatGirl :) If not allowed -- my apologies for breaking the rules. Just thought it was an obnoxious message and since it is not anyone I trade mails with, thought maybe others might recognize the writing style.

[martin II]

Originally posted by goatgirl
[QUOTE]Originally posted by fbgweezer
[B] Not sure why you PM'd me with this message but I feel that it should be answered in the light.



Not for nothing but I thought your not allowed to post PM messages on the boards....:shrug:

GoatGirl :)

i appeares one can cut and past any message. why would one post a private message to this public board. i guess everything goes.
martin II:shrug:

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
If not allowed -- my apologies for breaking the rules. Just thought it was an obnoxious message and since it is not anyone I trade mails with, thought maybe others might recognize the writing style.

courtgirl registered on may 6/06
whoever sent it to you sent it on a private basis. if you disagreed you could have sent it back privately and said screw you or something but to break the privacy rule seems to be way over the top to me.
what did it benefit you to do this.

martinII

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


courtgirl registered on may 6/06
whoever sent it to you sent it on a private basis. if you disagreed you could have sent it back privately and said screw you or something but to break the privacy rule seems to be way over the top to me.
what did it benefit you to do this.

martinII I wasn't trying to benefit myself -- I wanted to let him/her know that they can't hide their ugly messages in a pm. Now, you've read enough of my posts -- what do you think the chances are that I would agree with their message? None.

[weezer]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I wasn't trying to benefit myself -- I wanted to let him/her know that they can't hide their ugly messages in a pm. Now, you've read enough of my posts -- what do you think the chances are that I would agree with their message? None. I know ignorance is no excuse but I really did not know about not posting PMs. My apologies to my fellow posters and Hotwater, I promise never, ever to do it again.

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I wonder why Martin II feels the need to defend this "unknown" poster so fiercely?

You posted that you didn't know that it wasn't allowed. I think Martin II needs to move on. Go figure. I thought it was strange that the poster had not posted before but felt the need to PM me with that garbage. Hope Hotwater will take a look at who the poster is. Sure sounds like a troublemaker.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I wasn't trying to benefit myself -- I wanted to let him/her know that they can't hide their ugly messages in a pm. Now, you've read enough of my posts -- what do you think the chances are that I would agree with their message? None.

fbg

what i think is that people send pms to others because they want to say something but do not want to make it public. you don't have to agree with the pm.

there is a option in pm to send a reply. PRIVATELY.
as don't send me pms"
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Go figure. I thought it was strange that the poster had not posted before but felt the need to PM me with that garbage. Hope Hotwater will take a look at who the poster is. Sure sounds like a troublemaker.

fbg
i don't know who the poster is but it seem a little childish to register a nic just to send you a opinion in a pm.

martinII

[weezer]

*Snipped*Originally posted by socaldiva
Someone wondered if BA (or is it AB?) degrades down to B. What I just read suggests it does. The "A" degrades first. IIRC, that's the poster that martin said I should 'put a sock in it' over. I believe wukong and others pretty much quieted the poster.

What are you reading to find info on the blood degradation?

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Page 21 of the Rantala book. I've been jumping around in it. She sure is a smart cookie. imo Oh, I should have known. Very, very good book and excellent resource.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Go figure. I thought it was strange that the poster had not posted before but felt the need to PM me with that garbage. Hope Hotwater will take a look at who the poster is. Sure sounds like a troublemaker.

fbg

ok
my point is why do you believe ctv set the pm part of the board up
in the first place? so that you could decide to make a private message to you public??

if you think that is the case then there would be no need for pms

martin II

[martin II]

suppose the pm turns out to be a new poster not netta that was reading and dissagreed with your position and rather than have a public fight with you they decided to use the pm vehicle.
what then?
martinII

[weezer]

I saw a short segment on tv last night about Orenthal's new pay-per-view venture. It got me to thinking -- does AC know Orenthal was trying to sell his car? LOL

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva
FBG, have ordered/started any other books relative to this case?

Whatever happened to Kato the dog, do you remember? OMG, I've read so many books lately on this and as you see, I can still get it wrong. I started Fuhrman's but can't seem to get into it. I really enjoyed Petrocelli's. I've been thinking about getting Marsha's.

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I didn't that. What do you mean, trying to sell AC's car? I'm teasing. Since it was AC's bronco that took the suicide/getaway run, and since Orenthal is passing off the vehicle he's selling as having 'escapability', I assumed he was selling AC's bronco. LOL Just wondered if AC knew. LOL

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva
FBG, have ordered/started any other books relative to this case?

Whatever happened to Kato the dog, do you remember? IIRC, Kato died back in 2004. I don't remember any of the particulars about where he'd lived up to that point, just remember something about him dying.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I saw a short segment on tv last night about Orenthal's new pay-per-view venture. It got me to thinking -- does AC know Orenthal was trying to sell his car? LOL

fbg

do i sense a little change of subject. that is really funny.
hahaha
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I read Marsha's about 10 yrs ago & thought it was pretty good. I was just looking at the trivia portion of Rantala's book & laughing because I'd never heard that Cochran was going to call the Nobel Prize winner Linnus Pauling, til Ito told him he was dead :D :lol:

[bandit's mom]

Originally posted by socaldiva
FBG, have ordered/started any other books relative to this case?

Whatever happened to Kato the dog, do you remember?

Nicole's parents took him. He passed away a year or
so ago. Being a dog lover I was happy that her parents
stepped up and kept her dog.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

that sounds logical.

example

when Mazolla first testified she said she HAD put her initials on ALL of the envelopes that included samples she handeled as a means of personal identification.

In a later testiomony when the defense lawyer presented her with all of what was suppose to be the same envelopes and her initials were NOT on any of them, she was asked WHY this was.
she responded. i don't know.

later on she then changed her original testimnony and said i must not have put my initials on any of them.

Now, if one is inclined to believe all of the prosecutions witnesses, one would just say, oh, she was just mistaken about what she was doing/did when she processed the samples.

if one is on the jury and hears her say that she does not know what happened or that there is no explination for her initials NOT
now being on the samples and simply says, well, i must have been mistaken, could you as a jury member believe that it was possible that samples could have been tampered with?
martin II



martin II, maybe someone could have thought that there might be something wrong when this issue was first raised by the defense until Mazzola explained why she was mistaken and the actual envelopes were presented in court.

When the actual coin envelopes were presented in court they had no initials on them, but the bindles that contained the blood samples that were inside the coin envelopes did have item numbers on them written by Mazzola and Fung proving there was no tampering with this evidence.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II
bob

Possible mob motive for wanting nicole killed.

if oj was deelpy involved in the mob operated sports gambling business for some time and nicole had been very concerned that if there was a big bust, their lives would be turned upside down and this would effect their life directly.

That she was on oj constantly to stop and oj finally told the mob that he was out because his wife was causing him trouble about his involvement. That they said no way you can you quit. That the mob then decided that nicole was at the root of the problem and that she should be eliminated.
martin II


martin II, irrelevant fantasy.

bobaugust

[weezer]

*Snipped* Originally posted by bobaugust
When the actual coin envelopes were presented in court they had no initials on them, but the bindles that contained the blood samples that were inside the coin envelopes did have item numbers on them written by Mazzola and Fung proving there was no tampering with this evidence. bobaugust Thank you. I wanted to dispute his allegation and I've been looking for that in testimony but could not find it.

[weezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Brian,

I have not been banned! If i changed my nic it would be: nettathirdT Uh-oh......I guess I owe you an apology.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


alien
in a fight for his life with a killer , he was able to hold on to a gate.
martin II


martin II, this may have happened before the fight.

When Ron saw Simpson start to come towards him, armed with a knife, he may have turned to run back out the gate pushing it open. When Simpson grabbed Ron from behind Ron may have held onto the open gate. When Simpson pulled Ron back in the yard Ron's grip on the gate was broken causing the gate to slam shut and bounce back open.

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
If not allowed -- my apologies for breaking the rules. Just thought it was an obnoxious message and since it is not anyone I trade mails with, thought maybe others might recognize the writing style.

fbg
the writing style looks like courtgirl18. look at her post on another thread. all caps.
martin II

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by fbgweezer


5. Evidence is that Nicole was attacked first and that the dog started barking before the "Hey, hey, hey." After Nicole being knocked to the ground, could Orenthal have been at the gate trying to get Kato out when Ron came up?



fbgweezer, you're on the right track but the key to what happened here is what Heidstra said happened.

Heidstra said that the Akita was in the street when it first started to bark. Heidstra said It was several minutes later when he heard "Hey, hey, hey!"

You can read Heidstra's testimony here.
http://www.bobaugust.com/robert.htm

bobaugust

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva
I sure wish we knew what kind of latch the gate had & whether it pulled towards Bundy when you opened it, or if it opened inward towards the condo. I'm guessing it swung towards Bundy. :shrug: The picture of the bodies looks like the gate opened into the courtyard.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II




problem is no one has been cut when the dog is put out but the dog has blood on his paws and belly when he is out barking.
martin II


martin II, that's incorrect.

No witness ever said the dog had blood on it's paws and belly when it first started barking.

The dog was barking outside in the street barking before Ron arrived.

bobaugust

[weezer]

Originally posted by bobaugust
fbgweezer, you're on the right track but the key to what happened here is what Heidstra said happened.

Heidstra said that the Akita was in the street when it first started to bark. Heidstra said It was several minutes later when he heard "Hey, hey, hey!"

You can read Heidstra's testimony here.
http://www.bobaugust.com/robert.htm

bobaugust Thanks for the link. I'm going to print it out and take it with me on my trip to the coast in the morning.

[martin II]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Brian,

I have not been banned! If i changed my nic it would be: nettathirdT

hi netta

funny what people can think and do when you don't post for some hours.

martinII

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
The picture of the bodies looks like the gate opened into the courtyard.

fbg
if you are looking at nicoles body the gate opens outward.

martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty
Martin II

I believe it was a Drug hit! Since Orenthal was the one with drugs in his system, do you think they mistook Nicole for him and murdered the wrong person?

[weezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty



fbg,

I guess I have been gone awhile, I didn't know OJ was tested and found to have had drugs in his system! yep, traces of marijuana...........

[martin II]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Martin II

I believe it was a Drug hit!

netta
no one here will ever agree with your statement as it is impossible for them to belive that nicole would do drugs.

But faye is a different story.
martinII

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Since Orenthal was the one with drugs in his system, do you think they mistook Nicole for him and murdered the wrong person?

fbg
they knew where oj lived and they must have known where nicole lived.
martinII

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
yep, traces of marijuana...........

fbg
i thought it was said that oj and kato did some blow at mc donalds in the bently. see how lies can spread

martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust




fbgweezer, you're on the right track but the key to what happened here is what Heidstra said happened.

Heidstra said that the Akita was in the street when it first started to bark. Heidstra said It was several minutes later when he heard "Hey, hey, hey!"

You can read Heidstra's testimony here.
http://www.bobaugust.com/robert.htm

bobaugust

bob
you are constatly fishing.
martin II

[bandit's mom]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by martin II
[B]

netta
no one here will ever agree with your statement as it is impossible for them to belive that nicole would do drug


Kind of a ridiculous statement. I have no trouble believing
Nicole may have tried or used recreational drugs. There's a huge
stretch from that to being killed as part of
some "drug deal". Besides, the bottom line in this murder
is the mountain of physical evidence against one man only.
Throwing out a bunch of ridiculous theories doesn't change
the fact that all the PHYSICAL evidence points to OJ. Not
to mention common sense.

[martin II]

Originally posted by bandit's mom
[QUOTE]Originally posted by martin II
[B]

netta
no one here will ever agree with your statement as it is impossible for them to belive that nicole would do drug


Kind of a ridiculous statement. I have no trouble believing
Nicole may have tried or used recreational drugs. There's a huge
stretch from that to being killed as part of
some "drug deal". Besides, the bottom line in this murder
is the mountain of physical evidence against one man only.
Throwing out a bunch of ridiculous theories doesn't change
the fact that all the PHYSICAL evidence points to OJ. Not
to mention common sense.

unless one was in nicoles friendship group, one would not know if she did it every month, every week or every 3-4 days.

martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
yep, traces of marijuana...........

fbg

in your opinion does "traces of marijuana" = a druggie?
martinII

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


bob
you are constatly fishing.
martin II



martin II, no I'm not the one doing the fishing it seems you are with all of the false information you post.

I'm simply stating the facts that witnesses testified to, you either still don't know them or you ignore them.

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust




martin II, no I'm not the one doing the fishing it seems you are with all of the false information you post.

I'm simply stating the facts that witnesses testified to, you either still don't know them or you ignore them.

bobaugust

bob
i was speaking about your web site
martinII

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


bob
i was speaking about your web site
martinII


martin II, then I have no idea what you're fishing comment means.

So what do you think I'm fishing for?

bobaugust

[Wukong]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Brian,

I have not been banned! If i changed my nic it would be: nettathirdT

Netta,

My apologies! I searched this thread and saw all your posts were gone back to the beginning of April. I know they do this when someone is banned.

As the famous quote goes: I guess the rumors of your demise were greatly exaggerated. Glad to see you are still with us!

Brian

[Wukong]

Originally posted by nettathirty
http://www.gammonvillage.com/images/photos/05bodogoj.jpg

Netta,

Is this proof of OJ's drug use? It looks like he's tokin' on a fatty! He's looking like 5 miles of bad road too.

Brian

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by martin II

2l8

sorry to hear about your friend.

your experience with her case has nothing to do with how nicole's body was found imo
martin II

I don't know what happened to your above-referenced Post, but Alien must have gotten a hold it it before you deleted it. IMO, you know full well that the position of Nicole's feet/legs are NOT relevant to the OJ Simpson double murder case. Nonetheless, you wanted to MAKE it relevant to the case with your incessant harping on the fact that "How did that happen? Why did that happen? Somebody must have done it, it just couldn't happen all by itself ~ blah, blah, blah ~ ad nauseum!!!

Yes, it does happen. How it happens, I don't know. No matter what the explanation, it was apparently lost on you as usual, SFB!

JMO and MOO!!

:rolleyes:

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust



martin II, then I have no idea what you're fishing comment means.

So what do you think I'm fishing for?

bobaugust

bob
you take some things too serious.
i was talking about fishing for hits on your web site.
martinII

[martin II]

Originally posted by Wukong


Netta,

Is this proof of OJ's drug use? It looks like he's tokin' on a fatty! He's looking like 5 miles of bad road too.

Brian

wukong

It looks to me like everyone is having a good time posing for the photo op. and pleased to standing next to the juice. Oj still looks smooth and relaxed to me.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8
[b]

I don't know what happened to your above-referenced Post, but Alien must have gotten a hold it it before you deleted it. IMO, you know full well that the position of Nicole's feet/legs are NOT relevant to the OJ Simpson double murder case. Nonetheless, you wanted to MAKE it relevant to the case with your incessant harping on the fact that "How did that happen? Why did that happen? Somebody must have done it, it just couldn't happen all by itself ~ blah, blah, blah ~ ad nauseum!!!

Yes, it does happen. How it happens, I don't know. No matter what the explanation, it was apparently lost on you as usual, SFB!

JMO and MOO!!

:rolleyes:

everything found at the murder scene has relevance. some more than others.
martinII

[alien]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bandit's mom
[B]

I agree. This was OJ's dog. That would explain the confused,
frantic barking when OJ attacked Nicole. But attacking
his master is another thing altogether.

All the answers about the dog made sense and this post explains it very well. Thanks.

[Lionthrone]

Originally posted by Wukong
Netta,

Is this proof of OJ's drug use?

It looks like he's tokin' on a fatty! He's looking like 5 miles of bad road too

Wukong,

O J Simpson is starting to get up there in years, so you can hardly blame him for not looking as young & vibrant as he has in recent memory. from what I can see, he's still young at heart (as noted by all those hot-babes)

As for his new DVD "Juiced" well who can't appreciate some timely humor in what some critics have dubbed The Ultimate Killer Comedy



Lionthrone :)

[Lionthrone]

Originally posted by socaldiva
Ah yes, nothing like being his age & all bloated & hanging out with a bunch of vacuous girls, that are only after his money & would probably rob him blind if he keeled over. Hopefully, they would call the paramedics before they left.

There are quite a few men his age that look a whole lot better than he does. Probably comes from living an evil life ;)

socaldiva,

Granted those girls might be empty-headed but that girl on the right-hand side is hardly empty. as a matter of fact it's clear something has been added to her persona (if you know what I mean) ;) :)


Lionthrone

[martin II]

Originally posted by Lionthrone


socaldiva,

Granted those girls might be empty-headed but that girl on the right-hand side is hardly empty. as a matter of fact it's clear something has been added to her persona (if you know what I mean) ;) :)


Lionthrone

Lionthrone

With all those sponsors it looks like this was no small event.

Just a guess, but it appears that oj is the guest of honor.
martin II

[Lionthrone]

Originally posted by martin II
Lionthrone

With all those sponsors it looks like this was no small event.

Just a guess, but it appears that oj is the guest of honor

martin II,

Even today O J Simpson is a highly marketable commodity :patriot:

While he won't be doing and commercials or endorsements for any fortune 500 companies, he could still make a comfortable living :)




lionthrone

[Lionthrone]

Originally posted by socaldiva
I think you are dreaming. Unless you are talking about freak show events like the one he did around Halloween. Thank goodness Halloween is only once a year.

The vast majority of America does not want him & he knows it. imo

socaldiva,

You underestimate the cult following that O J Simpson has built-up over the years.

I bet you'd be surprised by just how many fans he has amassed :)





Lionthrone

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by socaldiva
Since it's picture day on the thread, I thought I'd post this one. I rather like it:

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/l/E/osama_oj.jpg

This one shows him in thought, apparently:



http://images.ibsys.com/2001/0209/454858.jpg


socaldiva, I don't know if you saw that on my web site but I have another one that show the transformation.

Check it out.
http://www.bobaugust.com/osamabinladen.htm

bobaugust

[Lionthrone]

Originally posted by socaldiva
Since it's picture day on the thread, I thought I'd post this one. I rather like it:

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/l/E/osama_oj.jpg




socaldiva,

The Bin Laden/O J comparision picture is so old :mad:

I e-mailed it to several friends back in 2001 who got a kick out of it.



Lionthrone :)

[Wukong]

Quote from Lionthrone:

"Even today O J Simpson is a highly marketable commodity"


OJ is no more than a side show freak. He is invited to events and offered projects merely as fodder for jokes, ridicule and exploitation of his infamy. Even at the 2005 MTV awards party (where that picture was taken) Jamie Foxx was on stage inviting people up to share the Mic. OJ was not asked up but Jamie, upon noticing OJ, says "There's the Juice". He then goes into a dance where he similates knife slashing, then says "This party's gonna be Killer!"

Everywhere he goes and every project he does he is only known for killing his wife, nothing more.

Wukong

[Lionthrone]

Originally posted by Wukong
Quote from Lionthrone:

"Even today O J Simpson is a highly marketable commodity"


OJ is no more than a side show freak. He is invited to events and offered projects merely as fodder for jokes, ridicule and exploitation of his infamy. Even at the 2005 MTV awards party (where that picture was taken) Jamie Foxx was on stage inviting people up to share the Mic. OJ was not asked up but Jamie, upon noticing OJ, says "There's the Juice". He then goes into a dance where he similates knife slashing, then says "This party's gonna be Killer!"

Everywhere he goes and every project he does he is only known for killing his wife, nothing more.



Wukong,

So what you're basically saying is that O J Simpson has found his niche in the post-trial era :)

Sounds to me like he should be commended for having the courage to face all the public scrutiny and adversity.





Lionthrone

[Wukong]

Lionthrone,

You should consider a career in the "spin" business. You would go far.

Wukong

[martin II]

Originally posted by Wukong
Lionthrone,

You should consider a career in the "spin" business. You would go far.

Wukong


wukong

The "joke " made by Jamie Fox did seem to be taken by those there as nothing but a joke.

Here are a few more pictures of oj, jamie and others having much fun togeather at that event.

MARTIN II


http://www.wireimage.com/GalleryListing.asp?navtyp=CLB&str=11943&sfld=&styp=clbi&nvc=&nvv=&nm=O.J.+Simpson&evntI=1521

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by martin II
fbg

when Heidstra heard the hayhayhay voice at 10:40 p. whoes voice was that?
martin

Again, such disrespect to Ron Goldman. It's heyheyhey NOT hayhayhay. Hay is for horses SFB!

JMO and MOO!!

:rolleyes: :no: :rolleyes:

[alien]

Originally posted by Wukong
Quote from Lionthrone:

"Even today O J Simpson is a highly marketable commodity"


OJ is no more than a side show freak. He is invited to events and offered projects merely as fodder for jokes, ridicule and exploitation of his infamy. Even at the 2005 MTV awards party (where that picture was taken) Jamie Foxx was on stage inviting people up to share the Mic. OJ was not asked up but Jamie, upon noticing OJ, says "There's the Juice". He then goes into a dance where he similates knife slashing, then says "This party's gonna be Killer!"

Everywhere he goes and every project he does he is only known for killing his wife, nothing more.

Wukong

And he ain't purty no more. And he kinda looks rode hard and put up wet. :lol:

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by bobaugust

<snipped>

Nicole went to the front gate and unlatched it so Ron could open it from the outside. On her way back to her front door she encountered Simpson who had parked his Bronco in the alley and made his way down the walkway. As they talked Simpson let his dog out the gate. He only had to open it enough so the dog could run out, that's what all male dogs do when given the opportunity. When it closed it still remained unlatched.

bobaugust

Bob, again, no disrespect. But I am having a hard time with the theory that OJ let Kato out the front gate and Nicole just stood idly by and let him do that without so much as an "excuse me?" As I see it:

Now the gate is closed, but not locked.

We've also got OJ and Nicole standing there talking with each other. What? With OJ in his dark sweat pants outfit, knit cap, gloves on and knife at the ready? GMAB!

Then what? Kato and Ron Goldman arrive at the closed, but unlocked, gate at the same time so Ron lets them both in? GMAB!

Please forgive me, but I just don't get this theory at all. Any help that you or Wukong can give me will be appreciated.

:shrug:

JMO and MOO!!

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


Bob, again, no disrespect. But I am having a hard time with the theory that OJ let Kato out the front gate and Nicole just stood idly by and let him do that without so much as an "excuse me?" As I see it:

Now the gate is closed, but not locked.

We've also got OJ and Nicole standing there talking with each other. What? With OJ in his dark sweat pants outfit, knit cap, gloves on and knife at the ready? GMAB!

Then what? Kato and Ron Goldman arrive at the closed, but unlocked, gate at the same time so Ron lets them both in? GMAB!

Please forgive me, but I just don't get this theory at all. Any help that you or Wukong can give me will be appreciated.

:shrug:

JMO and MOO!!



2L8 4A D8,

I see no problem with Simpson opening the gate and letting the dog out when he first encounters Nicole. Maybe Nicole did say something to him but the dog did belonged to Simpson as well as Nicole.

Yes Simpson would be wearing a dark colored sweat suit, a knit hat and gloves, but may have kept his knife in his pocket until his encounter with Nicole escalated to a physical confrontation.

When that happened, the dog outside the gate, may have started its unusual barking, reacting to Simpson and Nicole fighting. Ron Goldman may have driven by the front of Nicole's condo while the Akita was in the street barking. Ron parked his car on Dorothy St. and walked back to the Nicole's front entrance. When he opened the gate he may have seen Simpson standing over Nicole lying unconscious on the ground. Simpson may never have heard Ron enter because of the loud barking, so when Ron yelled "Hey, hey, hey!" he surprised Simpson who yelled back and then attacked Ron.

No one knows what really happened. All we know are the facts that Robert Heidstra testified to. This scenario was an attempt to explain what may have happened based on what Heidstra said he heard.

You can read Heidstra's testimony on the following web page.
http://www.bobaugust.com/robert.htm

If this scenario doesn't sound right to you and you believe you can create a scenario that is consistent with what Heidstra said he heard, and consistent with the evidence that was found at Bundy, please give it a try.

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust




2L8 4A D8,

I see no problem with Simpson opening the gate and letting the dog out when he first encounters Nicole. Maybe Nicole did say something to him but the dog did belonged to Simpson as well as Nicole.

Yes Simpson would be wearing a dark colored sweat suit, a knit hat and gloves, but may have kept his knife in his pocket until his encounter with Nicole escalated to a physical confrontation.

When that happened, the dog outside the gate, may have started its unusual barking, reacting to Simpson and Nicole fighting. Ron Goldman may have driven by the front of Nicole's condo while the Akita was in the street barking. Ron parked his car on Dorothy St. and walked back to the Nicole's front entrance. When he opened the gate he may have seen Simpson standing over Nicole lying unconscious on the ground. Simpson may never have heard Ron enter because of the loud barking, so when Ron yelled "Hey, hey, hey!" he surprised Simpson who yelled back and then attacked Ron.

No one knows what really happened. All we know are the facts that Robert Heidstra testified to. This scenario was an attempt to explain what may have happened based on what Heidstra said he heard.

You can read Heidstra's testimony on the following web page.
http://www.bobaugust.com/robert.htm

If this scenario doesn't sound right to you and you believe you can create a scenario that is consistent with what Heidstra said he heard, and consistent with the evidence that was found at Bundy, please give it a try.

bobaugust

Bob
one issue. if oj did put the dog out when he and nicole were talking(as you say) and the dog was in the street when Ron drove by, Ron parks his car on Dorothy and comes back to the gate and oj attacks him, how and when did the dog get blood on his paws if he was OUTSIDE the gate before Nicole or Ron were cut and Ron slammed the gate as he entered?

martin II

[Wukong]

Bob,

I'll take a stab (pun intended) at a theory off the top of my head. This theory will assume that Heidstra actually heard Ron and OJ and not someone else.

According to testimony of OJ's neighbor, Mr. Cale, the Bronco was not parked at Rockingham around 9:45 when he walked past with his dog. Mr. Cale seems very credible to me, as does Storfer with his estimate of 10:20 when the dog was barking.

OJ was driving around trying to talk himself out of going to Nicole's. He calls Paula again from his Bronco at 10:03. He is not happy and has now made his decision final. He drives to Nicole's, parks in the back, goes through, or over, the rear gate. This may be around 10:15 and as luck would have it Nicole comes out of the condo to unlatch the gate for Ron. OJ kills Nicole and leaves through the rear gate. He does't track any blood on this trip because the blood pool had not formed yet.

In the mean time the Akita has gotten outside the gate and starts to bark at around 10:20, during or just after the killing. OJ doesn't get far before he realizes he has lost his hat. He pulls over and frantically looks around inside the Bronco and realizes he must have left it at the crime scene. He goes back to get the hat and as he is bent over Nicole searching the area for the hat, Ron shows up and hence the Hey, hey, hey and the subsequent struggle with OJ and Ron's demise. During this struggle OJ loses the glove and the blood pool is now big enough for OJ to leave a footprint trail as he leaves and for Ron to have blood on the bottom of his shoe.

I have explainations for every little detail but will wait for the inevitable barage of trashing of this theory from both sides. I will answer questions as they arise. Again this is off the top of my head but this basic theory fits the evidence (I'll address Bob's questions about other witnesses who didn't hear the dog when he posts his questions about this).

Wukong

[martin II]

Originally posted by Wukong
Bob,

I'll take a stab (pun intended) at a theory off the top of my head. This theory will assume that Heidstra actually heard Ron and OJ and not someone else.

According to testimony of OJ's neighbor, Mr. Cale, the Bronco was not parked at Rockingham around 9:45 when he walked past with his dog. Mr. Cale seems very credible to me, as does Storfer with his estimate of 10:20 when the dog was barking.

OJ was driving around trying to talk himself out of going to Nicole's. He calls Paula again from his Bronco at 10:03. He is not happy and has now made his decision final. He drives to Nicole's, parks in the back, goes through, or over, the rear gate. This may be around 10:15 and as luck would have it Nicole comes out of the condo to unlatch the gate for Ron. OJ kills Nicole and leaves through the rear gate. He does't track any blood on this trip because the blood pool had not formed yet.

In the mean time the Akita has gotten outside the gate and starts to bark at around 10:20, during or just after the killing. OJ doesn't get far before he realizes he has lost his hat. He pulls over and frantically looks around inside the Bronco and realizes he must have left it at the crime scene. He goes back to get the hat and as he is bent over Nicole searching the area for the hat, Ron shows up and hence the Hey, hey, hey and the subsequent struggle with OJ and Ron's demise. During this struggle OJ loses the glove and the blood pool is now big enough for OJ to leave a footprint trail as he leaves and for Ron to have blood on the bottom of his shoe.

I have explainations for every little detail but will wait for the inevitable barage of trashing of this theory from both sides. I will answer questions as they arise. Again this is off the top of my head but this basic theory fits the evidence (I'll address Bob's questions about other witnesses who didn't hear the dog when he posts his questions about this).

Wukong

wukong

what i know i agree with is that no killer could kill nicole and ron in 1-2 minutes and then track blood from around nicole because the blood pool would have taken several minutes 7-8 to form before a print could have been made.
martin II

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


Bob
one issue. if oj did put the dog out when he and nicole were talking(as you say) and the dog was in the street when Ron drove by, Ron parks his car on Dorothy and comes back to the gate and oj attacks him, how and when did the dog get blood on his paws if he was OUTSIDE the gate before Nicole or Ron were cut and Ron slammed the gate as he entered?

martin II



martin II, when Ron entered the front gate the Akita could very well have entered with him. When the gate was slammed some seconds later it did not slam shut and lock, it could have slammed and bounce back open. That's how it was later found.

After Simpson dropped Ron to the ground to bleed to death he returned to his ex wife and sliced her throat and then left through the rear gate. The Akita walked through Nicole's pooling blood before going back out the front gate and turning towards Dorothy St. leaving the bloody paw prints.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by Wukong
Bob,

I'll take a stab (pun intended) at a theory off the top of my head. This theory will assume that Heidstra actually heard Ron and OJ and not someone else.

According to testimony of OJ's neighbor, Mr. Cale, the Bronco was not parked at Rockingham around 9:45 when he walked past with his dog. Mr. Cale seems very credible to me, as does Storfer with his estimate of 10:20 when the dog was barking.

OJ was driving around trying to talk himself out of going to Nicole's. He calls Paula again from his Bronco at 10:03. He is not happy and has now made his decision final. He drives to Nicole's, parks in the back, goes through, or over, the rear gate. This may be around 10:15 and as luck would have it Nicole comes out of the condo to unlatch the gate for Ron. OJ kills Nicole and leaves through the rear gate. He does't track any blood on this trip because the blood pool had not formed yet.

In the mean time the Akita has gotten outside the gate and starts to bark at around 10:20, during or just after the killing. OJ doesn't get far before he realizes he has lost his hat. He pulls over and frantically looks around inside the Bronco and realizes he must have left it at the crime scene. He goes back to get the hat and as he is bent over Nicole searching the area for the hat, Ron shows up and hence the Hey, hey, hey and the subsequent struggle with OJ and Ron's demise. During this struggle OJ loses the glove and the blood pool is now big enough for OJ to leave a footprint trail as he leaves and for Ron to have blood on the bottom of his shoe.





Brian, not bad, but...

How would that account for the evidence that tells us Ron was killed first and then Nicole was killed?

How would that account for no bloody shoe prints on the walkway between Nicole's body and the front gate when Simpson and Ron fought.? Nicole's blood would have already poole after Simpson first left.

How would that account for Nicole's and Ron's blood on Simpson Center console supposedly dripped from the knife?

How could the Akita have gotten out the front gate ?

How does that account for the witnesses who were outside on that quiet still night at 10:20 and never heard any barking?

How does that account for the witnesses who said that once the Akita started to bark loudly and strangely it didn't stop? It was continuous barking.

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust




Brian, not bad, but...

How would that account for the evidence that tells us Ron was killed first and then Nicole was killed?

How would that account for no bloody shoe prints on the walkway between Nicole's body and the front gate when Simpson and Ron fought.? Nicole's blood would have already poole after Simpson first left.

How would that account for Nicole's and Ron's blood on Simpson Center console supposedly dripped from the knife?

How could the Akita have gotten out the front gate ?

How does that account for the witnesses who were outside on that quiet still night at 10:20 and never heard any barking?

How does that account for the witnesses who said that once the Akita started to bark loudly and strangely it didn't stop? It was continuous barking.

bobaugust

bob
good question about no shoe prints from nicole to the gate.

good point about how did the Akita get out of the gate unless Wukong is saying nicole did not unlock the gate but opened it and left it open.

i don't think the dog started barking and NEVER stoped. i think he barked at some places when people heard him, stopped for a few minutes, moved to another place and started barking again when others heard him.

if oj went back to find the cap, then killed ron he could then look for the cap and the glove.
martinII
martin II

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II




i don't think the dog started barking and NEVER stoped. i think he barked at some places when people heard him, stopped for a few minutes, moved to another place and started barking again when others heard him.




martin II, there is no evidence that the dog barked then stopped for a while and then barked again. Fenjves and Storfer both testified that the barking was continuous.

At the time Storfer and Fenjves said they heard the dog barking, 10:20, there were witnesses who were outside who never heard any barking.

Pilnak and Telander were south of Storfer. Mandel, Aaronson, and Heidstra were north of Fenjves. All five of these witnesses were outside when Storfer and Fenjves were in their houses and estimated the time the barking started.

Storfer and Fenjves testified that the barking was loud and unusual, so loud that Storfer in his house was afraid it would wake his son, yet Pilnak, Telander, Mendel, Aaronson, and Heidstra who were all outside on that quiet still night at that time never heard any barking.

The fact is that five witnesses outside contradict the 10:20 time estimate by two witnesses inside their houses. I'll go with the more reasonable explanation that two witnesses were mistaken about their time estimates.

bobaugust

[Wukong]

Bob,

I just got to work and all heck is breaking loose so I can't answer your questions. I will answer as soon as I am able. The one I can answer quickly is that Nicole had unlatched the gate before OJ punced, leaving it open enough for Kato to escape. There's more to this but it needs to wait.

One good thing about a spur of the moment theory is that I am not married to it and have no problem changing anything in it. I have lot's of different theories if this one craps out on me.

brian

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by alien


Thanks Wukong for the encouraging words. Mr Alien is a very special guy.

:)

I noticed that martin asked you about netta getting banned. I know about kta, but not netta. When did that happen? I am concerned that the moderator is going to get a little frustrated and close down this board and I would hate to see that happen.

Netta has been banned many times. He was Out4Justice, then Netta30 and then Nettathirty. Everytime his nic changes, so does his story. I also feel that rayray2 and martinII are incarnations of Netta. He needed some help with having more NG's on the Board so he made up some imaginery friends! Isn't that special?

JMO and MOO!!

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by socaldiva
FBG, have ordered/started any other books relative to this case?

Whatever happened to Kato the dog, do you remember?

Kato spent the last few years of his life with the Browns. He has since died.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by bandit's mom
[QUOTE]Originally posted by martin II
[B]

netta
no one here will ever agree with your statement as it is impossible for them to belive that nicole would do drug

Kind of a ridiculous statement. I have no trouble believing
Nicole may have tried or used recreational drugs. There's a huge
stretch from that to being killed as part of some "drug deal". Besides, the bottom line in this murder is the mountain of physical evidence against one man only.
Throwing out a bunch of ridiculous theories doesn't change
the fact that all the PHYSICAL evidence points to OJ. Not
to mention common sense.

IMO, Netta and MartinII have nothing better to do than come on the OJ Board and Post their assinine theories and questions. They don't have any common sense because they don't have any brains. Like my Dad said, "If you had a brain and it exploded, it wouldn't even mess up your hairdo." This is what I try to tell myself everything time I come upon one of their Posts.

JMO and MOO!!

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by martin II

everything found at the murder scene has relevance. some more than others.
martinII

"Your experience with her case has nothing to do with how nicole's body was found imo martin II"

Oh really SFB?

JMO and MOO!!

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by bobaugust

2L8 4A D8,

I see no problem with Simpson opening the gate and letting the dog out when he first encounters Nicole. Maybe Nicole did say something to him but the dog did belonged to Simpson as well as Nicole.

I disagree. There was no encounter with Nicole because Nicole was in the condo with Kato.

Yes Simpson would be wearing a dark colored sweat suit, a knit hat and gloves, but may have kept his knife in his pocket until his encounter with Nicole escalated to a physical confrontation.

I disagree. There was no encounter with Nicole. If you knew that your ex was out to kill you, would you not start screaming your lungs out when you saw him in a black sweat suit, black knit cap and black gloves? It's like "What's up with that outfit OJ?"

I think that Nicole thought she heard Ron coming, not realizing that it was really OJ. He took her from behind and she didn't know what hit her and fell unconcious to the ground.

I think that this is when Kato completely freaked out. When OJ went back to finish off Nicole, Ron just opened the gate because it was not locked and walked in. That's when Ron goes heyheyhey and thus didn't have time to shut the gate because OJ was on him like a duck on a June bug. After OJ left out the back gate, it was then that Kato went out the opened front gate, barking and wailing.

JMO and MOO!!

<snipped>

[bobaugust]

2L8 4A D8, some of what you say makes sense, but some is contradicted by what Heidstra's said he heard.

It's not clear to me that Nicole thought Simpson was out to kill her that night. She had seen him earlier at the recital and ignored him, and he did the same to her. Even Simpson didn't know he would do anything that night until after he received Gigi's telephone call at 8:00 PM. asking him permission not to return from her weekend until the next day.

I'm not sure how you think Nicole thought Simpson was Ron coming in. Simpson had parked his car behind Nicole's condo and most likely made his way down the walkway to the front of the house. Nicole wouldn't have heard that.

I see nothing that would exclude Simpson encountering Nicole after she unlatched the front gate so Ron could let himself in. She may very well have asked Simpson why he was dressed the way he was.

You say Ron just opened the gate, it was not locked. When would it have been unlocked?
You say the Akita started barking and wailing after Simpson left out the back gate. That's not what Heidstra said.
Heidstra testified that he first heard the Akita start to bark about 10:30, 10:35. He said it sounded like the Akita was in the street in front of Nicole's condo. That's why Heidstra decided not to continue walking his dogs down Bundy and turned to go to the alley. Heidstra said that about five minutes later the Akita was still barking when Heidstra stopped in the alley across from Nicole's condo to listen to the barking. That's when a small black dog in the yard near him started to also bark. Then Heidstra said he heard a young clear male voice coming from Nicole's condo yell "Hey, hey, hey!" and a deeper older voice yell back and then he heard Nicole's front gate slam.

Heidstra continued his walk to the end of the alley and then turned onto Dorothy St. stopping again about two or three houses up, standing under a big oak tree listening to the Akita still barking. He said he was looking back at the intersection of Dorothy and Bundy when he saw a white jeep like vehicle come into the intersection, turn right on Bundy, and speed away. That was about five or so minutes after Heidstra had heard the two male voices coming from Nicole's condo.

bobaugust

[martin II]

2L84AD8

If haidstra had not testified that he heard the dog at 10:35 on Bundy barking and heard the hey hey hey and then the gate slam at about 10:40, your idea may have validity, but since he did testify to the above, it makes no sense.
Martin II

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by martin II
2L84AD8

If haidstra had not testified that he heard the dog at 10:35 on Bundy barking and heard the hey hey hey and then the gate slam at about 10:40, your idea may have validity, but since he did testify to the above, it makes no sense.
Martin II

My idea (theory) has a lot more validity than anything that you've ever contributed to this OJ Board. Bob and Wukong have constantly given you testimony, etc. and yet you continue to disregard it and go on and on with "yeah, but; yeah, but; yeah but" ad nauseum! Now, that "makes no sense."

:rolleyes:

JMO and MOO!!

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by bobaugust
2L8 4A D8, some of what you say makes sense, but some is contradicted by what Heidstra's said he heard.

It's not clear to me that Nicole thought Simpson was out to kill her that night. She had seen him earlier at the recital and ignored him, and he did the same to her. Even Simpson didn't know he would do anything that night until after he received Gigi's telephone call at 8:00 PM. asking him permission not to return from her weekend until the next day.

Nicole told her friends and anybody else that would listen and even wrote it in her diary that she felt one day that OJ was going to kill her. I was not talking about that specific night.

I'm not sure how you think Nicole thought Simpson was Ron coming in. Simpson had parked his car behind Nicole's condo and most likely made his way down the walkway to the front of the house. Nicole wouldn't have heard that.

IMO, Nicole had to have heard something to bring her out of the Condo with Kato at her side. I honestly feel that she thought it was Ron coming and was going out to greet him.

I see nothing that would exclude Simpson encountering Nicole after she unlatched the front gate so Ron could let himself in. She may very well have asked Simpson why he was dressed the way he was.

I don't think so. Had she seen OJ and what he was wearing, she would have known what was about to go down (no pun intended) and I am sure that she would have started screaming her lungs out. Nicole was no dummy and I am sure that she put 2 and 2 together had she actually seen OJ.

You say Ron just opened the gate, it was not locked. When would it have been unlocked?

I think that when Nicole knew that Ron would be returning the eyeglasses, but didn't know exactly when, it was then that she went out and unlocked the gate and then went back into the Condo.

You say the Akita started barking and wailing after Simpson left out the back gate. That's not what Heidstra said.

No, that isn't what I said. I said that Kato started his barking and wailing after OJ knocked Nicole unconcious and she fell to the ground. Then in walks Ron.

Heidstra testified that he first heard the Akita start to bark about 10:30, 10:35. He said it sounded like the Akita was in the street in front of Nicole's condo. That's why Heidstra decided not to continue walking his dogs down Bundy and turned to go to the alley. Heidstra said that about five minutes later the Akita was still barking when Heidstra stopped in the alley across from Nicole's condo to listen to the barking. That's when a small black dog in the yard near him started to also bark. Then Heidstra said he heard a young clear male voice coming from Nicole's condo yell "Hey, hey, hey!" and a deeper older voice yell back and then he heard Nicole's front gate slam.

Then how did Kato get out if the front gate if it wasn't open? I guess it was then that OJ opened the gate and let Kato out. I guess.

JMO and MOO!!

<snipped>

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by nettathirty



2L8,

I've always felt OJ visited the crime scene, but after the victims were dead. My belief about the "Police Corruption" if it's been your experience that the Police have treated you unjustly, the conspiracy is not going to be a hard sell to you. Same with Domestic Abuse, if you've experienced abuse (beit first hand or otherwise) then abuse is not a hard sell for you either!




nettathirty, your beliefs are based only on your imagination. The facts that witnesses testified to and the evidence that was found contradicts the fantasies you offer regarding these murders.

You keep saying that you believe Simpson visited the crime scene and the victims were dead. Yet Simpson never called the police and he left the crime scene without even knowing if his two small children were still alive. At the best leaving them sleeping in their house to awake to find their slaughtered mom. Whatever beliefs you may have about Simpson's character that lead you to create fantasies that he couldn't have been the killer are completely destroyed by this reality.

The simple fact is that no matter how much you hate the police or believe they are corrupt it has nothing to do with this case. I'm sorry but all I've ever seen you do is use only excuses no matter how ridiculous they are, making unrealistic and unsupported arguments that don't make any sense to anyone except you, all so you can avoid the simple truth that Simpson was the killer and the only killer.

bobaugust

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by nettathirty

There is definately a link between the Bundy Murders and BCantor.
IMO MOO JMHO

You stated that there is "definitely" a link, but I'd like to know how you can make a definitive statement regarding this, considering that no one has been able to prove a link between the two.

Wehre is your proof to make that statement? Or did you just mean that it is your opinion?

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by nettathirty

My belief about the "Police Corruption" if it's been your experience that the Police have treated you unjustly, the conspiracy is not going to be a hard sell to you. Same with Domestic Abuse, if you've experienced abuse (beit first hand or otherwise) then abuse is not a hard sell for you either!


Hi Netta,

In some ways I agree with this, but I think that you are generalizing too much.

Those who have had unsavory experiences with police would definitely be more inclined to believe that such corruption occurs, and those who have been abused have more of an inside knowledge of what occurs in such relationships that may give them an ability to see something that one who hasn't been abused might not see. But I do not believe that it automatically makes that individual biased, though in some cases it certainly may.

I think that what is being forgotten here is that no one on this board has ever stated, to my knowledge, that they believe that police corruption does not exist. We know that it does. But for me, I look more for something that speaks to me about whether or not corruption occurred in this particular case. The same with abuse. I look more for something that speaks to me about whether or not abuse occurred in this particular case.

[bobaugust]

2L8 4A D8, nobody knows exactly what happened blow by blow before or during these murders except for three people. Two are dead and the third, Simpson, isn't talking.

All of these scenarios are only what we think may have happened based on the facts we do know.

Those facts include the physical evidence that was found after the murders and the testimony from witnesses who were near Bundy at the time. The key witness is Robert Heidstra. He was an ear witness to when Nicole's Akita started to bark, and when Ron Goldman arrived at Bundy. He was also an eye witness seeing when Simpson's Bronco sped away from the murder scene.

We know from the evidence that Nicole's gate buzzer on the intercom in her kitchen wasn't working. We know that her front gate was found open and we know how it could be unlatched so someone could open it from the outside without a key. We know from the blood evidence that Ron was killed first and Nicole was most likely knocked unconscious. And we know that Nicole's dog walked through her blood, just like Simpson did, leaving a blood prints where it went.

As to what Nicole thought or how she would have reacted is pure supposition. The exercise to try and create a scenario that fits all of the known facts is simply that, an exercise to try and explain what actually happened, but an exercise irrelevant to the fact that Simpson and only Simpson killed both Ron and Nicole. Even though different people imagine different ways Simpson committed these murders doesn't change the fact that he did. And nothing we know tells us anyone else was involved.

Although reasonable thinking people may differ on tiny details of how they imagine the murders happened, we all agree on the simple truth that Simpson was the killer and the only killer. Nothing points to anyone else. Nothing eliminates Simpson. Unreasonable thinking people who will use any excuse they can dream up to avoid this simple truth are the ones who create ridiculous unsupported fantasies.

Bottom line, we will never know exactly what happened unless the killer Simpson someday decides to talk about it, but even if he does, he will be the only one who knows if what he's says is the actual truth. Based on how he has had to live his life deceiving everyone and himself, he may very well not even remember exactly what he did that night.

bobaugust

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Brett Cantor and Ron Goldman were friends.
Brett Cantor and Ron Goldman both had stab wounds of overkill.
Nicole and Ron were (undenibly friends)
Ron and Nicole frequent The Dragon Fly club in Brentwood
Brett Cantor owned the The Dragon Fly club
Brett Cantor was murdered in Brentwood Sept 93
The Bundy murders happened in Brentwood just blocks away from Brett Cantors murder.
In both murders, each victims was killed by a knife with a long thin blade.


I have to admit "definate" is a STRONG ASSUMPTION on my part, but look at this " MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE!

IMO MOO JMHO

netta30

That doesn't do it for me. Maybe my blinders are on but I am failing to see how this adds up to proof of a definite link. I give you that similarities may exist, but I'd rather not say anything definitively based on similarities.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II


courtgirl registered on may 6/06
whoever sent it to you sent it on a private basis. if you disagreed you could have sent it back privately and said screw you or something but to break the privacy rule seems to be way over the top to me.
what did it benefit you to do this.

martinII

Am I missing something? In reading through the TOS I cannot find anything that prohibits the posting of a PM to another individual, but martinII states that a "privacy rule" has been broken.

I have seen PMs posted on this forum previously and nothing has been brought up in regard to it, so what am I missing here?

[martin II]

2l8


Ron just opened the gate because it was not locked and walked in. That's when Ron goes heyheyhey and thus didn't have time to shut the gate because OJ was on him like a duck on a June bug. After OJ left out the back gate, it was then that Kato went out the opened front gate, barking and wailing.

JMO and MOO!!


If Ron did not have time to shut the gate , what was the gate slamming Heidstra heard?

If Kato went out the open gate after oj had killed , what dog was barking at 10: 35 before Heidstra heard the heyhey hey and the gate slamming.
those are the quesitons.

martinII

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Speaking of fantasties! You have know ideal what happened at Bundy that night, and your closed minded to anything that contradicts your belief. You weren't present at Bundy on June 12,1994 and prior to OJs arrest you knew as much about the man, as the rest of us. Just like the rest of us you only speculate, and like me only witnessed this case from your living room.

Creating a website about this case and posting the Civil Testimony ad nausea on this board makes you as much an insider as it does the rest of us, sir. So do us all a favor and step down off your high horse.

netta30



nettathirty, no one is on a high horse, just some posters like you have no horse at all.

Every claim you've made trying to argue that Simpson wasn't the killer has been contradicted by either the reality of the evidence or the reality of what witnesses testified to.

I have no fantasies about these murders. In every scenario that I've ever offered about how these murders may have been committed I've always said that no one really knows what happened. All these scenarios are only an attempt to try to create what we believe could have happened based on the facts and evidence we know.

The bottom line is that the only three people know blow by blow what actually happened. Two are dead and the third, Simpson, isn't talking.

Creating a web site explaining what the evidence is and what witnesses actually said was only to inform the uninformed as to the reality of the facts and evidence in this case that prove Simpson was the killer and the only killer. You're right that doesn't make me an insider only someone who is as informed as other reasonable thinking people, many who post on this discussion group, who have taken the time to learn the facts in this case and understand the simple truth of these murders.

The fact that you and others want to make believe that the civil trial never happened is funny. But it's understandable why none of you want to learn or talk about it since in that trial Simpson was proved to be a liar and a killer. To a certainty.

bobaugust

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Kate:

The Hillside Stranger was linked to more deaths with far less similarities than the Bundy and Cantor murders. imo

All of the victims were nude, sexually assaulted, strangled with a ligature, and dumped in a location different from where they were killed. Very similar.

Actual proof of the killer was discovered through trace evidence left by Bianchi.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by bobaugust
2L8 4A D8, nobody knows exactly what happened blow by blow before or during these murders except for three people. Two are dead and the third, Simpson, isn't talking.

<snipped>

bobaugust

Yes Bob, I do know that only 3 people know exactly what happened that night and 2 of them are dead, which leaves OJ and he will NEVER talk even though he was acquitted of these crimes. All of us ~ G's and NG's alike have thrown out our theories, opinions and assumptions left and right. For me, my theories, opinions and assumptions are JMO and MOO.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by martin II
2l8

Ron just opened the gate because it was not locked and walked in. That's when Ron goes heyheyhey and thus didn't have time to shut the gate because OJ was on him like a duck on a June bug. After OJ left out the back gate, it was then that Kato went out the opened front gate, barking and wailing.

JMO and MOO!!

If Ron did not have time to shut the gate , what was the gate slamming Heidstra heard?

All of us have our own opinion as to what gate was slammed, back or front. And as you stated, if that is what Mr. H testified to that it was the front gate he heard slamming, then that's what happened. Whether we all agree or not, right?

If Kato went out the open gate after oj had killed , what dog was barking at 10: 35 before Heidstra heard the heyhey hey and the gate slamming.
those are the quesitons.

martinII

As I stated, Kato started his barking when OJ knocked Nicole unconcious and she fell to the ground.

JMO and MOO!!

[martin II]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


Am I missing something? In reading through the TOS I cannot find anything that prohibits the posting of a PM to another individual, but martinII states that a "privacy rule" has been broken.

I have seen PMs posted on this forum previously and nothing has been brought up in regard to it, so what am I missing here?

kate
if you are interested in this ask GOAT GIRL
She is the one that brought it to fbg's attention in her post.
martinII
:seeya: