General Case Discussion: OLD THREAD [Archive] - Page 2

bobaugust

04-13-2006, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

when j cochran put on the cap and said who am i. that simple demonstration said a lot.

all of nicoles neighbors knew oj. knew eaxctly what he looked like
and knew that a white bronco parked a few blocks from nicoles house belonged to OJ.

if oj had put on a knit cap and a neighbor had seen him the neighbor would have said hi oj.

rayraytwo, that's funny. rayray falling for Cochran's complete bull crap. It seems you're as naive as the jury was.

When Simpson put that knit hat on it was at night and dark. Anyone who may have seen a large man dressed in all dark colored clothing with a knit hat on his head at night in the dark shadows of Nicole's walkway would not be able to tell what kind of hair that man had or if had any hair at all. They could not positively have identified Simpson. That's why a criminal wears a hat, for disguising who they are.

I bet you fell for Cochran's other bull crap statement that his leather golf gloves don't shrink after he sweat in them or they get wet. Right, ray?

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-13-2006, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
paulas and ojs relationship was not as serious as m clarke and others have tried to make it

if it was serious why did she immediately after leaving the message hop a plane and go to los Vegas to see another man?

rayraytwo, because she broke up with him in the message she left.

Here's that handicap of yours again. Since you know practically nothing about what witnesses said in their depositions or in the civil trial, you are at a loss trying to comprehend what happened. Nobody knew about that dear john message Paula left on Simpson's cell phone message center at the time of the criminal trial except Simpson, Paula, and possibly Cochran. It was only learned when she gave her deposition before the civil trial.

Simpson lied and Cochran lied when he told the jury why kill Nicole? Simpson wasn't obsessed with Nicole, he had Paula.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-13-2006, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,
The book version of this trial (IMO) was pretty much tailored for the view point of it's intended reader.. Depending on the author the book wasn't very fair to the other side, or it only told that sides version... imo

Nettathirty, I quoted you facts of what happened, not opinions.

The fact is that Cochran lied to the criminal trial jury.
The fact is that Simpson lied to the civil trial jury.

bobaugust

2L8 4A D8

04-14-2006, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by fbgweezer

Going to have to disagree with your assessement of Rosey. He should never have chosen to take the devil's side. He knew the truth but kept quiet and I am not convinced it was because he was a minister. MOO

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Rosey was between a rock and a hard place. I think he did the right thing considering the position he was in. On the other hand, if anybody took the devil's side and came out smelling like a rose was AC Cowlings.

JMO and MOO

bobaugust

04-14-2006, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

bob

as i have said before i have read testimony from all of the important witnesses and posted some of this testimony just as you have. so i don't know why you continue to try to say i have not read testimony and you are the only one that has.

it is just that when you post testimony you give only the part that
supports what you belive happened.

rayraytwo, of course I post the testimony that supports the fact that Simpson was the killer. There is no testimony that supports the belief that he wasn't the killer. If you think there is, you post it. Prove me wrong.
.
Yes, you have posted some testimony. And some times you have posted testimony out of context so it didn't accurately reflect what is being said. But the fact is that you know nothing about the depositions or the civil trial testimony or Simpson's lies. You've closed your mind and your eyes to it. Your mind clamped shut after the criminal trial verdict.

That's why you didn't know about Paula's break up with Simpson and the the lies that Cochran and Simpson told.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-17-2006, 10:09 AM

Welcome back! I hope everyone who celebrates Easter had a good holiday.

Wukong

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i don't know why you say i did not know about paulas breakup with oj as that was one of the most often used reasons given for
'DRIVING' oj off the edge. MOST EVERYONE KNEW THAT.

I read the civil trial testimony just like you did. Looking at the trial
and how the judge handcuffed the defense by not allowing much of their argument and how Petrocelli tossed up any theory he could think of and yes the pressure on the jury to massage the american publics desire for a liable verdict there was no way that the results could have been different. even if oj had not told what you call gross lies. the paula call means nothing other than that she called. actually oj was use to her tantrams when she did not get her way. she quickly realized the folly of her DUMPING him and came and stayed by his side when he was in jail.

you may belive that you are the only person on this thread that can read but it is not true.

rayraytwo, it seems you knew something no one else did. At the time of the criminal trial the only thing the prosecution knew was that Paula was in Las Vegas on June 12th and wasn't answering Simpson's many calls to her that day. Ten of them.

The prosecution didn't know that Paula had left a long dear john message on Simpson's cell phone message center breaking off their relationship. Cochran told the criminal trial jury, "One of the most outrageous things I heard yesterday was this wild speculation that O.J. Simpson had some kind of falling out with Paula Barbieri on that Sunday. Where is the evidence of that? That is preposterous."

Your comments that you read the civil trial testimony is funny, especially when you say that "even if oj had told what you call gross lies, the paula call means nothing other than she called."

Simpson didn't tell "gross" lies, your words not mine, he told demonstrative lies. He lied about not receiving Paula's dear john message even when he was confronted with his own telephone records showing the time he made a call to his message center and listening to her message. He lied when when he was confronted with Dr. Lenore Walker's notes that she made when she interviewed him for hours and he had told her he listened to Paula's message and what Paula said in it. Evidently you didn't read those transcripts, right ray?

The truth came out in Paula's civil trial deposition.

Cochran lied to the criminal trial jury and Simpson lied to the civil trial jury to hide this fact because it was so incriminating. In the past when Simpson had problems with Nicole he had Paula to go to. On June 12th Simpson had problems with Nicole only Paula wasn't three to help him.

When the opportunity came at 8:00 that night and Simpson learned he would be alone the next three hours before leaving for the airport , he still couldn't reach Paula to talk him out of his revengeful plan on Nicole.

bobaugust

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 12:32 PM

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 12:36 PM

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
Originally posted by Kate Sachel

Are you aware that Michelle stated later on that she herself almost got beaten by OJ that night because at one point he thought she was Nicole and he grabbed her (Michelle) by the hair and threw her over his shoulder until she yelled "OJ, I'm not Nicole, I'm Michelle"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

link please

I cannot provide a link to a book.

I can, however, provide you the book information which is "Raging Heart" by Sheila Weller.

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kate Sachel

I cannot provide a link to a book.

I can, however, provide you the book information which is "Raging Heart" by Sheila Weller. [/QUOTE

when you made your statement you stated it as if it was fact. now i understand this was not testimony but the opinion of a writer.
thanks

It is not the opinion of a writer, and I'm not certain how on earth you can even construe it as such.

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
at some point when oj and nicole were not togeather oj and paula started a ralationship.

oj and niciole got back togeather and oj dropped paula.

nicole and oj broke up and oj and paula were back togeather.

paula became angry because oj would not take her to the recital and she 'DUMPED ' oj. she went to los vegas the same day to be with another man.

oj went to jail and paula was there every day to see him until sometime after the trial.

does this sound like either were really serious about a relationship.

I would suggest that you argue your point with OJ Simpson ... he is the one who testified under oath that he and Paula were very serious with one another. OJ can then tell you personally one of two things: 1.) That he was very serious with Paula or 2.) That he lied under oath

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kate Sachel
[B]
or that paula was not as serious as he thought she was.

If you insist on going that route then I would refer you to the deposition of Paula in which she testified that she loved him and wanted to start a family with him. She testified that she and OJ had talked about it and agreed to "filling the house with babies" and spending the rest of their lives together.

Again, OJ would be able to tell you only one of the two things that I mentioned.

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Are you asking me if I thought, OJ was going to kill himself?

Not for 1 second was he going to kill himself or flee during the Bronco Chase...

Netta,

Under oath OJ testified that he was suicidal and having thoughts of killing himself.

Apparently he was either too much of a coward to follow through or realized that it was not the appropriate route to go since he made it out of the Bronco alive.

Kate

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Are you asking me if I thought, OJ was going to kill himself?

Not for 1 second was he going to kill himself or flee during the Bronco Chase...

Nettathirty, you say you don't believed Simpson was going to kill himself.

American Tragedy,

One officer pulls his radio out if its leather holster and speaks into it. Other policemen are now downstairs. "He's not here," the cop says. "Is he down there?"

One cop asks Kardashian who else is present on the property. He mentions Cowlings. His stomach hurts.
"I don't see A.C.'s Bronco," he manages, hoping to sound helpful. "It's possible...." He stumbles. "It's possible that A.C. took O.J. in the Bronco with him."

Next he and the others were herded to a room on the second floor and told not to leave. The house was sealed off. Professionally, he understood this. In their place, he would have done the same thing. He heard more police arriving and the clatter of a helicopter overhead. Shapiro, calm and thoughtful as always, offered a detective his thoughts on where Simpson might be. Kardashian ahd some ideas as well. Simpson might be headed for the USC campus or the Bel Air Church, Kardashian said. Both lawyers seemed genuinely surprised, Baden thought.

Nicole Pulvers, Kardashian's assistant comes into the room and says quietly, "Telephone, Robert." Her voice has and edge.
"I can't talk now."
"It's your sister," Pulvers says firmly. She won't go away. It isn't like her to be pushy. Kardashian leaves the room and takes the call.
"I shot myself in the head," Simpson rasps into the phone, "but I didn't die." Kardasian surmises he calling from A.C.'s Bronco.
Kardashian can't tell if this is a joke. Did the gun not fire -- or is O.J. trying to be funny? A lot of strange humor has passed between the two friends over the years.
Simpson tells Kardashian that a minute earlier he had held the gun against his head and pulled the trigger. The pistol malfunctioned. Nothing happened. It isn't comedy.
"Where are you?" Bob asks.
"At the Bel Air Church."
As casually as he can manage, he asks, "Are you doing it there?"
"Nah, what a mess this is, right?" Simpson sounds oddly elated.
"The police are here." Kardashian looks over his shoulder to see if anyone is listening.
"All right. I'm going over to Nicole's now."
He has no idea what this means. To see the crime scene? To join her in death?
"Okay, I'll talk to you later." Kardashian adds desperately. "I love you."
Kardashian puts down the phone. As he walks back to the room where the police officers are he says to himself. If they ask who I was taking to, I have to tell them. But the cops never ask.

bobaugust

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

if she had plans to make babaies and have a long life with oj, why did she throw that tantram about not going to the recital and flee to another man?

have you considered that the testimony she gave was to show that oj was happy without nicole and was planning a good life with her?

I can't believe you even have to ask that question but you have and I will give you my response.

OJ apparently kept Paula on the line for quite some time. We are aware that he continued to see Paula while attempting to reconcile with Nicole. In addition to the recital issue, it has been testified to that Paula had also run out on OJ at a party the very night before the recital because he would not stop talking about Nicole.

For myself, if I and the man I love were talking about babies and spending our lives together and then I was told that I was not welcome as an open part of his life and additionally found out that he did still love his ex-wife then I would hit the highway as fast as the wheels would take me away.

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

and a few days later when he was put in jail, if you are like paula, you would be by his side daily until after the trial. right?

If I were coerced then absolutely. Additionally, if I truly loved that man and thought that he had just come close to killing himself then also absolutely.

If the case weren't so serious I would laugh at the fact that this whole thing played out more eerily and with more coersion than any government scandal I've ever researched.

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

OJ's attorneys were hoping for 2 outcomes:

1. It would create such a media Frenzy, that they couldn't possibly find a jury that wasn't familiar with the case..

2. Potential jurors would sympathize with a fallen suicidal(sp)Football Legend who had come to the end of his road...

I'm not saying he lied about his attempt at suicide. I'm saying they created a situation and allowed everyone to draw his or her own conclusions...

(imo) (moo)

I'd agree with the idea that after he realized he wasn't crossing the line to Mexico that he played out the story in an attempt to gain the sympathy of America.

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,
American Tragedy was a book written about his trial.. Bob, this has nothing to do with you sir, but my opinion of the books written in this trial adds nothing to what we didn't already know..

Nettathirty, American Tragedy wasn't written only about the trials it was written about the Simpson defense. Maybe you should try reading it, you might learn something.

"This book is a factual account of the defense of O.J. Simpson in his criminal trial and the civil action that followed, and is directly based on personal interviews, documents, court transcripts, and other material I obtained while researching this work. More than three dozen people involved in the two trials were interviewed, nineteen face to face, in 240 separate conversations. Nine subjects sat with me for more than fourteen hours each. The transcripts of my interviews total more than 23,000 pages.

The information for this book comes from the collected memories of those interviewed and from my own observations since the early days of the case. As I have noted elsewhere in this book, I began my formal interviews in September 1995. In most cases the people I interviewed kept personal notes and diaries from the first days of their involvement in the case, and their memories were supported by these notes and other written material.

Quotations form interviews have received limited editing merely to ensure a smooth transition form spoken to written form. Trial transcripts and other printed material have also been edited to a very limited degree, and I have tried to include the usual convention of ellipses and brackets wherever possible. When any editing has been done, no material changes in meaning have been made. Quotation marks are sometimes used where conversations have been reconstructed from memory. In such instances, at least one of the participants has confirmed the substance of the conversation. On occasions when I have described conversations of which the memory of one participant may differ from others' in a material respect, the substance has been confirmed by a number of those present.

Since this is a book about the Simpson defense, I have not attempted to interview the prosecution team in the criminal trial, some of whom have published or will publish their own goods and would have been understandably reluctant to share sensitive strategies with me. Lawrence Schiller"

bobaugust

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

it has beeen reported that oj and nicole had a standing agreement not to bring their lovers around each other when the kids were prsent. it seems that when oj told Paula that she could not go to the recital. he was trying hold up his part of this agreement with nicole. Paula may have been trying to force the issue, oj refused to buckle under to her and she threw another tantram and ran away.

I guess I'm missing the point here.

Kate Sachel

04-17-2006, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Funny this coming from you. When you sight OJ's behavior as being uncharacteristic in nearly most of your post...

From OJ's interaction with his kids, to his retrieval of his GOLF Clubs from the airport... You seem to think you know or knew how OJ should have reacted, not us...

Regardless, I believe that no one comprehends how you wait two days to see your children when their mother has just been brutally slain.

It's an act of selfishness for certain and beyond that ... who knows.

2L8 4A D8

04-17-2006, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by Kate Sachel

It is not the opinion of a writer, and I'm not certain how on earth you can even construe it as such.

Kate,

To keep from pulling your hair out by the roots, whenever RR2 requests a "link," just ignore it as he does when you request a "link" from him. I think all of us have learned (ad nauseum) to take it with a grain of salt.

JMO and MOO!!

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

NO, Thank you!!!

NOT 1 Book answers the following question..

1. Who called Police, at 10:30pm on the 12th about 2 dead bodies in W. LA?
2. Why was there NEVER EVER an explanation of NBS neighbor, Tom Lange and the activity he witnessed about 10:05p...
3. OJ cell phone records were displayed during the trial, yet calls made after the 10:03p call to Paula was blacked out. The book never explain who OJ talked too..
4. The Nissan driver that Shively witnessed OJ nearly hitting, your book doesn't MENTION this person, or even addresses it, why?

These are a drop in the buck of things your BOOK seem to overlook, and in my opinion the book has NO CREDIBILTY....

Nettathirty, My book? So you think Schiller's book has no credibility, yet you believe every rumor and fabrication you hear if you think it's in favor of Simpson. Funny. Schiller wrote his book with the consent of Simpson and his attorneys to show things from the defense point of view. Since you don't believe it has any credibility I guess you think Simpson's defense had no credibility.

1. The call that was inquiring about two dead bodies came into the Wiltshire community police station. It had nothing to do with Brentwood. The caller represented herself as somehow associated with channel 4. The watch commander for Wilshire, Sergeant Merrin testified that as watch commander he received calls several times a day asking whether or not he had heard of any murders or crimes that have gone on in the areas he was associated with.

2. Both the prosecution and the defense never called this Tom Lange as a witness because evidently neither of them believed what he claimed to be credible or relevant.

3. Simpson's defense attorneys requested that the calls on Simpson's telephone records that were not relevant to this case should be redacted.

4. My book? The Nissan driver may very well have come forward after the prosecution had decided to drop Shively, so he wasn't needed. The defense sure wasn't going to call him. You can read about this on Wagner's web site. He also believed Shively's story.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you have always expressed the opinion, like Wagner's, that Simpson was at Bundy but not the killer. So why are you questioning Jill Shively who Wagner believed? That certainly doesn't contradict your opinion.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob, I guess you can't understand " Guilty until Proven Innocent"..

Nettathirty, and you can't seem to understand that "not guilty" does not mean innocent. And that found responsible for the deaths of Ron and Nicole means Simpson killed them.

I don't know what you're discussing here but most of us are discussing the truth of who the killer was and how we know that truth. There is no doubt that Simpson killed both Ron and Nicole. Only people like you and ray who use excuses to avoid admitting the truth of this lying killer.

The best excuse I've heard lately was from a poster on another so called discussion group who said that Simpson couldn't have committed the murders because he's afraid of the dark, afraid of blood, and the Big Mac he ate that evening upset his stomach. I doubt if you or ray can top that one.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I doubt OJ was going to kill himself..

OJ had a disguise and $8k in cash.. What was his plan, if the suicide failed he would escape with his disguise and $8k in cash..

It's not adding up to ME!!!!

Nettathirty, no offense but I don't think you know how to add.

Simpson told Kardashian that he actually put his gun to his head and pulled the trigger but the gun jammed. After threatening to kill himself several times at Kardashian's house, Cowlings was driving Simpson to the Bel Air Church to do it. And that's where Simpson told Kardashian where he was when his gun jammed.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-17-2006, 08:17 PM

Netta,

"OJ said"!?

You just left yourself wide open. I'm not going to jump on this; I'm content to sit back and read the obvious replies.

Wukong

bobaugust

04-17-2006, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,
These books never explain why!!!!!

Everything you mentioned is speculative... From the Nissan Driver to Tom Lange, not 1 book goes into detail...

Nettathirty, no it's not all speculation.

1. January 8, 1997 Steve Merrin.

Q. Directing your attention to June 12, 1994, particularly on the evening of that night, were you assigned to the West LA division?
A. No, sir, I was not.
Q. Where were you assigned, sir?
A. I was the patrol watch commander for Wilshire community police station.

***
Q. Now, the woman represented to you that she was -- was somehow associated with Channel 4; is that correct?
A. That's correct.

***
Q. (BY MR. MEDVENE) And you received calls as watch commander several times a day asking whether
or not you've heard of any murders or crimes that have gone on in the area that you have any association
with?
A. Yes, sir, I do.

***
Q. And you had no knowledge as you took the call of any murders in the Wilshire area that you have anything to do with; is that correct?
A. That's correct.
Q. And you have nothing to do with -- the watch commander shift of Wilshire has nothing to do with Brentwood; isn't that correct?
A. That's correct.

2. Neither the prosecution nor the defense called this Tom Lange as a witness. Fact.

3. July 6, 1995

MS. CLARK: The second would be stipulation concerning the admissibility of telephone records. These concern the phone bills for the home telephone of the Defendant and for Juditha Brown.
THE COURT: All right. This will be subject to our agreement that if at a subsequent time there are phone numbers that are not relevant to the case, those will be redacted.
MS. CLARK: Right. And even days--dates. At this time, it seems apparent that at least June 12th and 13th are relevant, but it may be that that's all that's relevant and the rest can be stricken. So neither side waives the opportunity to object on grounds of relevancy later on.
MR. COCHRAN: That is correct. That's my understanding, your Honor. Both sides reserve that right to object on relevancy and the fact that we want to maintain the privacy of these numbers if at all possible, and further, there are other people who may have made these phone calls other than the parties involved.

4. Wagner wrote.
CORROBORATION: It has sometimes been portrayed that Jill's story is "uncorroborated." Well, the circumstances of the incident were that there were not many other witness -- the young man in the gray Nissan is the only one known -- and we do not know his story, or whether he might not have a compelling reason to keep quiet. So, if the man in the Nissan chooses not to come forward (and there is no public record that he has chosen to come forward) and Simpson himself denies the incident (as he has a motive to do) then there do not appear to be any other opportunities for corroboration of the incident itself. (However, I have heard credible rumors that in those first few days the LAPD received calls from people who claimed to have seen the Shively/Simpson encounter -- one was the driver of the gray Nissan and another was a pedestrian at the gas station nearby. Before these contacts could be investigated, Marcia Clark had denounced Jill Shively, and there was no more purpose for prosecuting the case in looking into them. But a record of their original contacts is still in the LAPD files.)

bobaugust

limakey

04-18-2006, 05:41 AM

There is no record of 30 phone calls to 911.

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I created this post to Mr August. The debate was whether or not OJ lied about his suicide attempt to Robert Kardashian.. I think he did

Bob, posted a conversation between OJ and Kardashian.. OJ apparently TOLD RK that he attempted suicide, which I doubted.. However, if OJ lied about all these other things I mentioned, why couldn't he have easily lied about the suicide attempt.. I wonder?

OJ puts a gun to his head and pulls the trigger, and he missed... HELLO !!!! This is not adding up, we know the gun was loaded...

Nettathirty, OJ puts a gun to his head and pulls the trigger, and he missed?

No, read what I posted again. "Simpson told Kardashian that he actually put his gun to his head and pulled the trigger but the gun jammed."

Jammed is far different than missed. If Simpson was lying he sure fooled his close friends. They all believed Simpson was seriously contemplating suicide. That's why they were so concerned, trying to talk him out of it.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-18-2006, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by limakey
There is no record of 30 phone calls to 911.

Hi Limakey,

What 30 phone calls are these? I don't remember hearing about 30 911 calls. I see that you say there is no record of this so where did this come from? Maybe I'm getting old and just don't remember this.

Wukong

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Maybe your right, but speaking as a Black Man.. I can say that I would not have done what AC did without prior knowledge of the consequences... The other Black Men that I spoke with, concurred the same opinion, that being Black makes you " guilty until proven innocent".. Sense I understand that, why in the HECK would I go on a Suicide Ride like A.C. did...

To me AC driving the Bronco on the 17th of June speaks volumes. That not only was OJ not guilty of the Murder of his ex-wife and Ron Goldman, but that the LADA an LAPD knew it as well..

Nettathirty, you are very confused. The fact that Cowlings left Kardashian's house with Simpson just before the police arrived was his concern for his friend and his talk of suicide.

It's very telling that you can't seem to grasp the life long close friendship these two men had. You have missed the mark every time you tell us what you think Simpson would have done or thought. You think because you're black you have some special insight into Simpson's thinking. You don't. That's evident from the opinions you express here. It's also evident your life experience is no where near Simpson's life experience. I'm sorry to inform you but you are as far removed from understanding Orenthal James Simpson as anyone could be.

I'm sorry to say but your opinion that Cowlings driving the Bronco on the 17th tells you not only was Simpson not guilty but that LAPD knew it as well is proof you really have no idea what you're talking about.

bobaugust

weezer

04-18-2006, 08:32 AM

*Snipped Originally posted by nettathirty
I can't argue this point, you have researched this trial and you have alot of insight... I just feel (i'm entitled) that the books of this case were tailored for it's audience and not for fairness in GENERAL ... I don't know about anyone else, but if I'm going to write a book that includes quotes and accusations of and by lawyers, I'm not going to take liberties with the truth. Toobin quotes the dream team and to a man (in fairness, I've not seen any quotes from Scheck, Neufeld or Douglas), they believed OJ murdered Ron and Nicole. Now, if anything said in those books were untrue, wouldn't those lawyers have raised holy hell and put a stop to them being published? MOO

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

the kids were safely tucked away with the browns, whom oj was paying for their care. plus, oj was about to locked up as a suspect of murder, i am sure he had planty to think about and do.
do you know if he did not talk to his kids at the browns house by phone???

Does it matter if he was paying for their care? Since when does money replace the comfort of a parent? Since when does a telephone conversation replace the comfort of a daddy's arms around a child?

I'm sure he did have plenty to think about, but as a parent one of the first things he should have beenthinking about was seeing his small children.

Will you always make excuses for his behavior? Is it that hard to say "hey I think he's innocent but I do think it's crappy that he didn't see his children right away"? Honestly, this gets more ridiculous as time goes on.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

This is your Opinion, right?

No, this is far more than just my opinion. It is the opinion of most of America, as well as the opinion of OJ's own doctor.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,

OJ said he never hit Nicole
OJ said he was home all evening on the 12th
OJ said he didn't retrieve his cell phone message
OJ said he was not upset about the recital
OJ said Nicole lifestyle was the reason she was murdered
OJ said Faye Resnick is the key to unlocking this WHOLE Mystery
OJ said he cut himself earlier in the week
OJ said he was chipping golf balls during the time of the murders
OJ said he didn't own those "Ugly *** Shoes"
OJ said he never did Cocaine
OJ said the maid hit Nicole in '89 not him
OJ said the photo of him in the shoes were a fake
OJ said he and Nicole even though separated were friends
OJ said Paula had a tendency to what she did on the 12th
OJ said MA and NBS did have an affair
none of which you believe

I could give you a list as long as the above that would all begin with the following:

Mark Fuhrman said ....

Would you believe all of those? I'm guesssing not. Why? Because Mark Fuhrman was proven to have lied. OJ was proven to have lied countless times and therefore I don't believe anything he says execpt that which can be proven with factual evidence.

weezer

04-18-2006, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8

We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Rosey was between a rock and a hard place. I think he did the right thing considering the position he was in. On the other hand, if anybody took the devil's side and came out smelling like a rose was AC Cowlings.

JMO and MOO I agree.

weezer

04-18-2006, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

IIRC, She stuck by OJ's side the entire time during the trial, and visited OJ daily while he was in jail.... I don't know for a fact, i can only speculate.. Knowing OJ's appetite for women, I don't think he was as serious about Paula as it appeared via the trial and media...

JMO MOO IMO I believe you are right -- OJ lacks the emotional makeup to attach to any female -- this is made obvoius by his running around on Marguerite and then Nicole and then Paula. If OJ were a woman, we would call him a **** -- not unlike the things he and his supporters have said about Faye (even down to doing drugs). I don't believe it was whether or not OJ felt deeply for Paula -- it was the fact that Paula blew him off. Seems like OJ does not like being blown off by the women in his life.

I had never heard/understood that Paula was with OJ right up until the time that he and AC did their skeedaddle. Did it seem odd to anyone else that OJ was with 'friends' and not family during that time? MOO

weezer

04-18-2006, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

You could be right, my field is not psychology.. However with my minimal knowledge of human behavior, I stand on the side that even though all men are created equal we still have a wide range of emotional differences.. imo I think everyone can agree with that statement. It is OJ's lack of emotion that seems to be perverse. MOO

weezer

04-18-2006, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

bob

as i have said before i have read testimony from all of the important witnesses and posted some of this testimony just as you have. so i don't know why you continue to try to say i have not read testimony and you are the only one that has.

it is just that when you post testimony you give only the part that
supports what you belive happened. Don't want to hurt your feelings but bob isn't the only one that questions whether or not you've read testimony in this case -- I've sometimes thought maybe you read the cliff notes. My frustration with you is that you fabricate testimony/evidence to fit your theories. I am grateful that bob is capable of righting the distortions/untruths that you continue to make. At least when he posts a belief or theory, he says that's what it is -- MOO

weezer

04-18-2006, 10:09 AM

*Snipped* Originally posted by rayraytwo
I read the civil trial testimony just like you did. Looking at the trial and how the judge handcuffed the defense by not allowing much of their argument and how Petrocelli tossed up any theory he could think of and yes the pressure on the jury to massage the american publics desire for a liable verdict there was no way that the results could have been different. even if oj had not told what you call gross lies. the paula call means nothing other than that she called. actually oj was use to her tantrams when she did not get her way. she quickly realized the folly of her DUMPING him and came and stayed by his side when he was in jail.

you may belive that you are the only person on this thread that can read but it is not true. You have now proven bob's point -- Your post is nothing but distortions/untruths and fantasy. MOO

weezer

04-18-2006, 10:16 AM

*Snipped* or that paula was not as serious as he thought she was. [/B][/QUOTE] Wonder why then he broght the interior designer to the criminal trial to testify about meeting with OJ and Paula to redecorate the master bedroom for Paula?

weezer

04-18-2006, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bronco chase:

Suicide Attempt or Escape Attempt, which was it?

OJ left a note, about not being able to go on with his life. ( this is the washed down version of his note ). Yet, when he surrenders at his Rockingham Estate to police he has $8K in cash, passport and disguise...

What was his plan to disguise his dead body? LOL -- if only. I don't believe OJ knew what to do or what he was going to do. Obviously, had he wanted to kill himself at Kardashian's, he could have. Had he wanted to kill himself in the Bronco, he could have. He thought he was caught but could not give up on his lifestyle and 'being OJ.' I don't believe he ever intended to kill himself -- he is the original drama queen -- needed to hear people telling him how much they loved him and how important he was. MOO

weezer

04-18-2006, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i read her comments about family and babies some time ago.
obviously they said different things to each other at different times but their actions did not support what they reportedly talked about or that they were able to STAY deeply in love for any long period of time. LOL -- or that OJ was lying to her...........

weezer

04-18-2006, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I notice that as well, "flipflopping".. To steal a phrase used during the 04' Presidential Election... You guys are something else -- who do you think changes their story about Paula? OJ, of course. First he says he had no reason to kill Nicole because he had gone on with his life and he and Paula were his future. Then he says the reason he was in the Bronco with family pictures, disguise, money and gun was because he was so distraught over Nicole's death because he loved her so much.........Wasn't the LE or the prosecution that made up the "yes I do" -- "no I don't".

BTW -- I've thought about Paula going to LV when she left OJ that day and here's what I think:
OJ -- Michael Bolton, OJ -- Michael Bolton
Viva Las Vegas!!!!!!!!!!!!

weezer

04-18-2006, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by Kate Sachel

Netta,

Under oath OJ testified that he was suicidal and having thoughts of killing himself.

Apparently he was either too much of a coward to follow through or realized that it was not the appropriate route to go since he made it out of the Bronco alive.

Kate I'm voting "coward"

weezer

04-18-2006, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty
Bob,
American Tragedy was a book written about his trial.. Bob, this has nothing to do with you sir, but my opinion of the books written in this trial adds nothing to what we didn't already know..

The Bronco Chase on June 17, 1994, is not what it appeared.. (IMO) A.C. driving the Bronco is suspect, Minority People that i've surveyed with not have done this.... OJ with the items found in the Bronco, contradicts his attempt at suicide, (IMO)... Then don't read a book about it -- read the transcript of the communication between OJ and Lange during the bronco ride. I don't believe he ever intended to kill himself -- he just didn't know how to get out of being caught. He took the coward's way out -- blamed innocent people for his demented faults. MOO

weezer

04-18-2006, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

and a few days later when he was put in jail, if you are like paula, you would be by his side daily until after the trial. right? she said she still loved him -- too bad for her she fell for such a void of a person.

weezer

04-18-2006, 11:25 AM

weezer

04-18-2006, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Dear Spin Doctor:

I said in an earlier post to YOU, that Books written about this case (IMO) are not fair to the opposing sides.. In my response to Bob August, i simply stated some of the things ALL these Books seem to overlook... There may be a reason that ALL of these books overlook those things -- including those from the defense: The evidence of OJ's guilt is overwhelming and the things you mention either have proved to be irrelevant to the the crime or did not happen. MOO

weezer

04-18-2006, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,

OJ said he never hit Nicole
OJ said he was home all evening on the 12th
OJ said he didn't retrieve his cell phone message
OJ said he was not upset about the recital
OJ said Nicole lifestyle was the reason she was murdered
OJ said Faye Resnick is the key to unlocking this WHOLE Mystery
OJ said he cut himself earlier in the week
OJ said he was chipping golf balls during the time of the murders
OJ said he didn't own those "Ugly *** Shoes"
OJ said he never did Cocaine
OJ said the maid hit Nicole in '89 not him
OJ said the photo of him in the shoes were a fake
OJ said he and Nicole even though separated were friends
OJ said Paula had a tendency to what she did on the 12th
OJ said MA and NBS did have an affair
none of which you believe ROFLMAO ---- hahahhahahaha. All of these things have been proven and documentated to be lies.........yes, some even by OJ's own friends. You really, really need to do some research.......LOL.....thanks for the laugh.

weezer

04-18-2006, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty
And it shows, but i'll clue you in... I started a post that said "what remains a mystery to ME!!!!'' ME - ME - ME

That post included my thoughts about, A.C. driving the Bronco on June 17, 1994 during the "Slow Speed Chase"! I also mentioned in the post that every BLACK MAN i've discussed this event with has said the same thing.. There is NO way they would have driven their OWN DADDY in L.A., knowing that Rodney King less than 2 years earlier was beating nearly to death for his disregrad of the law.

I responded to your post about " me not understanding A.C. and OJ's friendship".. In my reply, I said considering Black Men are considered guilty until proven innocent, speaking from my own personal experience with "DWB" (driving while black)... I as many Black Men could not think of 1 reason a completely innocent A.C. would throw himself head first into a Double Homicide of 2 innocent white people... I do understand " guilty until proven innocent" I Your observations about this subject does not extend to the lifestyles of OJ and AC. These two guys had never had an incident with LE and can not relate to what you are talking about.

Since your brought up doing your own research, did you happen to ask how many would go to your house and take your beaten wife to the hospital? Did you ask how many would go down to the parking lot and pick up your wife's clothes after you threw them out a hotel window during one of your rages? Did you ask how many of them would get dressed in the middle of the night because his buddy called and said to come over to settle an argument between you and your wife?

AC did those things and more. Yep, what a great friend or more. Sat on the sidelines and let OJ abuse Nicole. I hope someday those children have the opportunity to ask him why he didn't help their mom. MOO

weezer

04-18-2006, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Glad you mentioned this..

Professional Black Athletes are common place in African American barbershop. Most said they would have taken the Marcus Allen, Lynn Swann and Eric Dickerson approach(distance) because of their image... But not because they are black? Interesting.

weezer

04-18-2006, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

RR2 and I never said A.C. was in danger, you added that.. What we're saying is the lack of danger toward AC by the "COPS" prompts one to conclude as a BLACK MAN that he knew he would not be punished for his actions... This is exactly what you did NOT say. Your babershop buds and you said you would NOT drive oj around.

weezer

04-18-2006, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by limakey
There is no record of 30 phone calls to 911. oh geez.............No, but there are records of Nicole's abuse. So?

weezer

04-18-2006, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
no.

why would defense lawyers spend time and money to try to force corrections in the hundreds of books written about this case.
oj was found not guilty it did not matter that some people wrote books with wrong info in them. there is no way to stop this.
like the national inquirer, how do celebrities stop them. Because the things being said about the lawyers was terribly unflattering and reflected on their abilities as lawyers? But you miss the point -- these particular lawyers didn't sue because it was the truth: They believed/knew OJ had murdered Nicole and Ron. Celebrities sue all the time for stuff they say is wrong.........WTH

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

To me AC driving the Bronco on the 17th of June speaks volumes. That not only was OJ not guilty of the Murder of his ex-wife and Ron Goldman, but that the LADA an LAPD knew it as well..

Netta,

I'm afraid that your argument has no bearing. At the time that OJ Simpson was being driven by AC he was considered under law to be a fugitive. Which, at that time, regardless of the guilt or innocence that would be determined later on, it was a crime for anyone to aide in his flee. Therefore, his personal thoughts of OJ's innocence or guilt would have no bearing on whether or not he could be charged with a crime.

Kate

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Forgive me, I didn't know you were a friend of O.J's and AC prior to June 12, 1994, it all make sense now...:lol:

You do not have to be a friend of OJ or AC's to understand the dynamics of their friendship. What their friendship was about was one of the only things that almost everyone from each side of this case agreed on, and testified to.

weezer

04-18-2006, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
fbg

try to understand the pressures oj was under the day he was to give himself up. then ask yourself if you were in his perdicament would you have reacted rationally as you would to normal daily situations in your life?ray I can honestly say that had it have been me on that day -- AND I was innocent -- I would have been with my children and family. I've been divorced (after many, many years of marriage and a subequent remarriage) but I can tell you that I would not have killed myself had my ex-husband been murdered. I would have, been concerned about my children and family.MOO

weezer

04-18-2006, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

easy to say what you would have done since this has never happened to you. LOL -- you asked me.........hahahahahaha

weezer

04-18-2006, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i guess that out of 100 inquirer articles a month maby two celebrities sue. i am sure that the defense lawyers did not have the time or concern about all of these books. oj was not guilty, case closed. move on to the next case. Interesting thought process on your part. I've always believed they didn't sue because they wanted to distance themselves from OJ and their part in setting a double murderer free. MOO

weezer

04-18-2006, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i am sure that is the only conclusion you would come to. but some of the defense lawyers wrote books backing up how they defended the case. so i don't see any running there. Not my point -- I know the lawyers denfended and explained how they tried the case. What I said was they all knew him to be guilty AND said as much to other people.

weezer

04-18-2006, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

6/12 michael bolton 6/17 oj Oh please -- not even you would pick OJ over Bolton............LOL

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

It seems to me since you were at home or work and not in the mind of oj, it would be impossible for you to know what was going through his mind during the bronco ride. imo.

Okay, but you post nonstop about what you believe the intimate thoughts of OJ to be. ????

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i will tell you again. we think differently. i don't need you to formulate a comment for me to use, because YOU think it is what I should say. take it easy.

I would feel justified in saying that if you think the way that OJ did in that regard that you're a sorry excuse for a parent.

Disclaimer: The above is expressly my opinion (though shared by many others)

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 03:11 PM

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i will tell you again. we think differently. i don't need you to formulate a comment for me to use, because YOU think it is what I should say. take it easy.

Though I find it interesting that you didn't answer any of the questions that I posed.

When does money replace the comfort of a parent? When does a telephone call replace the comfort of daddy's arms around a child?

Additionally, explain why you believe that a telephone call to his children was sufficent. Explain why you place such emphasis on the fact that OJ was paying for their care.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

I have postred my opinion of what i thought about oj actions. if you fail to understand my meaning. maby you should read the post again.

This response clearly tells me that you have no logical or reasonable responses to my questions and therefore are attempting to find a way not to answer them without making it obvious that you don't want to answer the questions.

It's actually a vintage OJ Simpson move ~ when you don't have a logical answer you make up a ridiculous response.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

NO.

it is just that i belive that my post says what i thouight about all of ojs conduct regarding his children on that day.

you can only say what you would have done or what you may hope another individual would have done in that circumstance.

i doubt you would be on safe ground when you condem someone
for not responding in the manner that you say they should have
responded, when you were not experiencing the situation.

:seeya:

And still no answer to the specific questions.

weezer

04-18-2006, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

paula did and went to see oj every day he was in jail.

6/17/ she was back in the saddle. Well, actually, she was seeing the horse behind bars -- who knows where she spent her nights?????

weezer

04-18-2006, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I can't argue that it appeared he put his loyalty to OJ over his own life and freedom...

However, knowing what I know and what I have experienced, there is probably something else AC knew? AC knew the abusive history. In Petrocelli's book during his deposition, AC was asked if he ever considered that OJ had murdered Nicole and he said yes. His devotion to OJ is over the top. I don't believe there is anything he wouldn't do for him -- and did. MOO

weezer

04-18-2006, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I remember watching the chase on Television, and didn't know what to make out of it at the time. Looking back on the chase, I come to the conclusion that everything isn't what it appeared.

example:

Mark Fuhrman Ain't that the truth? example: OJ Simpson, Al Cowling

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i have given you my answer, you just have to learn to accept answers whether you agree or not, remember you don't rule this board even though you may think you do.:seeya:

And still no answers to the specific questions.

weezer

04-18-2006, 04:08 PM

*Snipped* Originally posted by rayraytwo
temper tantrum was my word Ahh -- that explains it.

You know of course that OJ lied about not getting Paula's breakup message. This has been proven and is not disputable. From OJ's mouth to the notes of his therapist.

weezer

04-18-2006, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

AC answered yes, that he thought OJ could have killed Nicole.. Someone how you see that as been devoted to OJ, how?

Yet, another BOOK reference: Splendid! Whenever I think about what all AC has done for OJ over the years it just kinda strikes me again how over the top that devotion is. Do you think he'll ever talk to Nicole's kids and try to explain how he sat on the sidelines and let OJ abuse her while he did OJ's clean up?

weezer

04-18-2006, 04:11 PM

*Snipped* Originally posted by nettathirty
Yet, another BOOK reference: Splendid! What would you have me reference? My poll from guys at the barbershop?

weezer

04-18-2006, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I was giving MF the benefit of the doubt in my post, if you had read it.. I said " things didn't appear as they played out"., he was portrayed as a _____ during the trial, so the opposite would make him less the _____!! Are you giving OJ and AC the benefit, or are you emotionally posting your responses without ____ ing? Oh sorry -- evidently misread your post. No, no benefit to OJ or AC. I consider both to be two very sorry human beings. I hope AC knows that not everyone bought his 'oh boo-hoo' act during his deposition. MOO

weezer

04-18-2006, 04:20 PM

*Snipped* Originally posted by nettathirty
I was giving MF the benefit of the doubt in my post, if you had read it.. LOL -- the day you give MF the benefit of the doubt, is the day I'll believe OJ didn't kill Nicole and Ron......ain't happening.

weezer

04-18-2006, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
fbg

i assume that oj knowing paula had again acted likle a teenager
because she could not go to the recital, he just said, gees another hot call from paula and did not pick it up. i think that is what i would have done.

but he must have known that she would be running back to STAND BY HER MAN on 6/17.

ps
do you think she was standing on the sidewalk yelling HI OJ all night or doing double duty at night?

:confused: Do you ever think through what you are going to post for answers? OJ retreived Paula's breakup message. Period.

Actually, Arnelle called Paula. Guess Daddy's little girl knew what daddy needed. MOO

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

The guys at the barbershop aren't motivated by MONEY, or the best sellers list..

Sometimes you don't find out who's motivated by what until something tragic happens and all of the sudden everyone is lining up for their chance to cash in and get their 15 minutes of fame.

weezer

04-18-2006, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

The guys at the barbershop aren't motivated by MONEY, or the best sellers list.. And can't get sued for not telling the truth. Sounds like the guys at the barbershop are motivated by ra*e.........Rac*sts come in all colors you know.

weezer

04-18-2006, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

OMG! Your speaking for me now!! I wouldn't assume to speak for you. I don't have the bias and hatred you have. MOO

weezer

04-18-2006, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty
RR2 give up, Socaldiva was OJ's therapist she knew how OJ reacted to traumatic situations in the past... fbgweezer was OJ's golf buddy and did body guard work with AC, as you can see from their post they have insider information.. GIMME A BREAK You and RR2 react the same -- when confronted with the truth, you throw out wise guy remarks as if that's going to change the facts.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 04:51 PM

weezer

04-18-2006, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Stop your whining and playing your race card..
In all of my post the only person I've identified by race is myself... Not the barber, or LE!! You assumed it ... If you don't believe me, go and re-READ my post.. You are ridiculous. I'm not playing my race card -- I'm trumping your's. If the guys at your barbershop aren't black -- then why would they be afraid of driving another black man around? You make absolutely no sense. You are always referring to race -- if you don't believe it -- go and re-read your posts.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Stop your whining and playing your race card..
In all of my post the only person I've identified by race is myself... Not the barber, or LE!! You assumed it ... If you don't believe me, go and re-READ my post..

Page 16: You stated ... "What we're saying is the lack of danger toward AC by the "COPS" prompts one to conclude as a BLACK MAN that he knew he would not be punished for his actions..."

In this post, you specifically spoke of AC's thoughts as a BLACK MAN.

Sounds like identifying by race to me.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I take it you didn't read the post I replied too: Socaldiva made the reference to Black Athletes being priviledge, and i replied to it.. So it was socal who made reference to anothers race, not I!

You stated what the Professional Black Athletes in the barbershop said when polled ... therefore, you referred to more than yourself by race.

Busted Netta .... tsk tsk.

Kate Sachel

04-18-2006, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

again, referring to myself...

Your post stated that "AC as a BLACK MAN knew" ... how is that referring to yourself?

Busted yet again Netta .... tsk tsk

weezer

04-18-2006, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Kate Sachel

You stated what the Professional Black Athletes in the barbershop said when polled ... therefore, you referred to more than yourself by race.

Busted Netta .... tsk tsk. :punch: :lol:

2L8 4A D8

04-18-2006, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by Kate Sachel

And still no answers to the specific questions.

Hope you are not holding your breath. RR2's reason for posting on this Board is to (he thinks) dazzle us with his brilliance, but in reality (of which he knows nothing about) he's just baffling us with his
bull*****!!!

JMO and MOO!!

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

what i think is that paulas testimony was designed to show that contrary to what the prosecution was trying to say, oj was finished with nicole and was happy with paula and therefore would not have been concerned or angry about his latest breakup with nicole.

rayraytwo, Simpson's relationship with Paula was different then his relationship with Paula. The criminal defense tried to show that there wasn't any reason for Simpson to be upset that Sunday with Nicole because Simpson and Paula were together. Lie. Paula's dear john message breaking up with Simpson left on Simpson's cell phone message center early that morning was intentionally kept a secret so Cochran could make that false argument.

Simpson's anger at Nicole that day had more to do with how she avoided him at the recital, eliminated him from the family dinner plans, and limited the time he spent with Sydney. Simpson told Kaelin, "Nicole's playing hardball with me. Sydney's my child, too. I can see her when want to."

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

BREAKING UP WITH PAULA: O. J. says he heard about Paula breaking up with him that day after he was in jail. It came up one time when Paula was visiting him. He says he just never retrieved the message. Apparently this was not an uncommon occurrence with Paula. She had also gotten mad at O. J. in Palm Springs not long before because he plays golf everyday instead of spending time with her. She "split up" with him then too, but then he went home and saw her again, and they went on with their lives.

rayraytwo, Simpson was lying.

When Simpson said that in his testimony he was impeached by his own telephone records that show after he returned home from the recital he called his message center and forwarded and listened to the message Paula left for him on his cell phone earlier that morning.

Simpson was also impeached by Dr. Lenore Walker's notes she took when speaking with Simpson when he was in jail. Simpson told Dr. Walker that he called his message center and forwarded Paula's message to listen to it and then told Dr. Walker some of the details that were in that message.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,
IIRC OJ being anger with Nicole about the recital was Clark's theory.. OJ has never claimed to be upset with Nicole, Kato testified, that OJ was tired but he was not angry after the recital..

Nettathirty, you too it seems can't seem to get past the criminal trial.

November 19, 1996 Kato Kaelin

Q. Okay. And when you went inside and spoke to him, was this before or after he had come back from the recital?
A. This was after the recital.
Q. And what, if anything, did Mr. Simpson say to you about the recital that he had just attended?
A. O.J. had said that he was wondering what it would be like for these women to be wearing their outfits when they're grandmas, he had said.
Q. Did he indicate which women he was referring to?
A. Nicole.
Q. What did he say about that?
A. What is she going to do when she's a grandma?
Q. Referring to?
A. Her outfit.
Q. What did -- describe the outfit.
A. Miniskirt.
Q. And what else did Mr. Simpson say to you about the recital, if anything?
A. He said that Nicole was playing hardball with him because he wanted to see his daughter, Sydney, and she wasn't allowing him to.
Q. Mr. Simpson indicated to you what in regard to Sydney and Nicole?
A. He regarded that he wanted to see his daughter and Nicole was playing hardball, because she wouldn't let him see her after the recital.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

only so that you can stop posting the same thing about this phone call.
this is not the first time paula had said i finifhed. went to the store and was found on ojs door step 2 hours later.

now if you want to streatch a 'DUMP' phone call into a active motive for killing the mother and his children and the person that paula was pissed with opj because he refused to use paula as arm candy in front of nicole and the children , then do so.

rayraytwo, do you read the postings I make in response to you or do you not understand what I said?

Simpson lied about not receiving that message when he testified in the civil trial because he knew how incriminating it was since Cochran had told the criminal trial jury that Simpson wasn't obsessed with Nicole, he had Paula at the time of the murders.

The fact is that Simpson didn't have Paula at the time of the murders. Paula had ended their relationship in the message she left him on his cell phone. So Simpson lied to cover that up and still lied even after it was proved he was lying.

I previously posted that when Simpson had problems with Nicole before that day he had Paula to talk to and help him through them. Not that day. Simpson called Paula ten times that day. He never reached her.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,
Let me clarify, I said Kato never said OJ was angry..

Nettathirty, do you think Simpson was telling Kaelin how happy he was with Nicole that she was playing hard ball with their kids?

Simpson was pissed.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-18-2006, 08:56 PM

It was quite obvious to me that OJ received Paula's message when he subsequently left a message later that day on Gretchen Stockdale's machine that said he was "Finally free for the first time in his life".

It is also quite obvious to me that OJ is quite the man-ho. Paula breaks up with him, Nicole is dissing him, he calls Gretchen trying to get a piece and also calls a Playboy model trying to get some. All in a few hours span.

What is also quite obvious to me from some of the male posters here that they have never tried to juggle 4 women at a time. Also ignoring the point of view of a woman. OJ tells Paula he loves her, wants babies, he's hiring a decorator for her to remodel Rockingham, takes her to a $10,000 a plate dinner on June 11th, weekends in Palm Springs with his kids, etc, etc... and the posters here feel that Paula is being difficult when OJ can't shake the Nicole jones. Obviously these posters do not understand women.

Wukong

Wukong

2L8 4A D8

04-18-2006, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

My thoughts of her running to be by OJs side during the trial and his imprisonment, was a sure sign that she had NO DOUBT about the Juicies innocense...

No, it's called "playing the game" and she did it well. When he was acquitted, did you see Paula anywhere around? No, of course not. She's not stupid!

JMO and MOO!!

limakey

04-18-2006, 10:00 PM

Wukong,

I don't think Paula's message means a thing. First and foremost, OJ was the ultimate player. He was never ever going to be faithful to one woman and they all knew it. I do believe that he made an attempt(s) to be faithful to Nicole but I don't think he could resist temptation for two reasons. One, men still get away with cheating because our society still thinks that there is a huge difference between making love and sex. Sure, a guy can have sex with 20 other women while he is married, but he only "makes love" to his wife. And then we have then there is the good ole boy explaination of sex, that if you only have oral sex, it isn't sex and therefore, just totally doesn't count. Thank you Bill Clinton!!!

I also believe he truly loved Nicole but he always had an excuse for cheating on her---like she didn't like the Hollywood scene and she wasn't as social as he was, so he had to have girlfriend to take to the events that Nicole didn't want to go to. I guess he never heard of the word "stag".

Paula was the one was pissed because OJ refused to take her to Sydney's dance. OJ always refused (as did Nicole) to bring "dates" to their family events or functions. Paula was pissed because as she said in her message, if it isn't golf, its the kids, if it isn't the kids, its golf. Paula was jealous of Nicole and that is something she has never denied.

Also, do you really think OJ believed that he couldn't get any woman back that he wanted? All he had to do was to wait them out, "be a good boy" and then after awhile, same-ole-same.

How many times in OJ's life, since he started having sex has the opposite sex broke up with him? He loved the chase, he loved the challenge. He knew that he could charm any woman he wanted to and had a very, very track record in that. Several of his mistresses, even after the murders, had nothing but nice things to say about him and that he was always a gentleman and attentive.

I'm sorry, I don't think Paula's message means anything, and I think it is comical when people say that Paula was the trigger for the murders. I think it is humorous because Paula explains why she left the message, because she knew once she heard his voice, it was over for her. Well if she knew that, then OJ knew that.

IMO

bobaugust

04-18-2006, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by limakey
Wukong,

I'm sorry, I don't think Paula's message means anything, and I think it is comical when people say that Paula was the trigger for the murders. I think it is humorous because Paula explains why she left the message, because she knew once she heard his voice, it was over for her. Well if she knew that, then OJ knew that.

IMO

Limakey, You may not think that Paula's message means anything but Cochran and Simpson did.

Cochran lied when he told the jury, "Why kill Nicole? Simpson wasn't obsessed with Nicole, he had Paula."

In his closing statement Cochran told the jury, "Let me just make a comment about Paula Barbieri. One of the most outrageous things I heard yesterday was this wild speculation that O.J. Simpson had some kind of falling out with Paula Barbieri on that Sunday. Where is the evidence of that? That is preposterous. The evidence is quite to the contrary."

In the civil trial when Simpson was confronted with his telephone records showing when he was at his house after returning from Sydney's recital a telephone call was made on his home telephone to his message center and Paula's message was forwarded from his cell phone and listened to. Yet Simpson still felt he had to lie and say he never received that message.

Dr. Lenore Walker, domestic violence expert for the defense spent sixty plus hours interviewing Simpson in his jail cell. Dr. Walker took contemporaneous notes of her sessions with Simpson. When asked she turned them over to the plaintiffs attorneys. "Among other findings, Dr. Walker freely admitted Simpson was a spousal batterer and Nicole a battered spouse. Simpson had also told her that he had, indeed, picked up Paula's message and that he had called Paula on the night of June 12 from his car."

Dr. Walker's notes February 25, 1995
"Called Paula, not home, Call forward on car phone message from Paula. Whole long message about golf, Don't see you. He's not sure if in Arizona or Las Vegas, or if angry with him. He listens to message. Kato goes by house."

When confronted with Dr. Walker's notes, Simpson still denied he had received Paula's message.

Maybe you should reexamine your belief that this meant nothing since it's evident that Simpson and Cochran disagree with you. Simpson called Paula ten times that day. That message wasn't the trigger that led to the murders, only one of the many things that caused Simpson's anger to escalate that day. The trigger was Gigi's 8:00 telephone call that gave Simpson the opportunity to kill that night.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-18-2006, 11:15 PM

Limakey,

I agree that way too much was made of Paula being the trigger to OJ killing Nicole. That was not why I wrote that post. Actually that post was a prelude to what I really want to say on this subject. I do feel that Paula had a bit part in all this though. To say this is not true is pure denial.

It seems that in this case people tend to oversimplify and trivialize the dynamics of relationships and the emotions involved. It seems that everyone is trying to sum up in a nice tidy package, in one post, how emotions may have played a part in this case. This is a naive way to approach this part of the case. Some of the armchair psychologists want to make OJ out to be some kind of emotional Superman where feelings of love, loyalty and guilt bounce off him like bullets. Like OJ was out banging all these white women with absolute absence of any kind of guilt or conscience. I don't buy it (to borrow a quote from Netta).

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe OJ is some kind of emotional eunich; but I doubt it. OJ has said many times in his testimony and elsewhere that he loved Nicole, always. He loved her right up to the day she died. They were married for 17 years! He also said he felt guilt and remorse when he cheated on Nicole. There is a strong learned subconscious emotional turmoil involved here. I will use my own personal experience as an analogy. I am sure I will get chastized and told I'm not OJ and don't know what he was thinking. I'll tell you what, I don't think any man is immune to the emotions I felt during my experience.

After my divorce (14 years of marriage preceded by 7 years of dating) I started dating. At one point I was juggling two girlfriends. At the same time I was having occassional relations with my Ex. Here's the wierd part; No matter which of the three I was with, I felt occassional pangs of guilt. When you are in a relationship with three different women, constant floods of emotions and thoughts enter your mind. For example; I'm with one woman and we are having a great time. No thoughts of anyone else. Then all of a sudden something happens that may remind me of one of the other two and feelings of guilt appear. This feeling may only last a second or two but this thought is now planted. It keeps popping up at the most inopportune times. I kept feeling that I was cheating on one of the other women, even though I was single and felt like a player, at the same time I felt guilty.

There is not one emotion that stays consistent 24/7. Emotions come and go, sometimes every second. Emotions are extremely complex and uncontrollable, even by OJ. If this was not true there would not be such a thriving psychology business out there. OJ's relationships, his player personna, his sense of connection to Nicole all affected his emotions. To say that Paula breaking up with OJ had absolutely nothing to do with the idea that OJ could have killed Nicole is naive in my opinion. I believe everything in OJ's life at the time, emotions in his love life and just everyday emotions concerning business, golf, what have you, all played a part.

Unfortunately this post doesn't exactly say what I want it to. The basic idea is there, I just can't find the words to explain it completely. Actually, some of the emotions I was talking about came flooding back and broke my train of thought. I'll have to recoup and hpefully finish my thoughts later.

Wukong

DiddleySquat

04-18-2006, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by Wukong
It was quite obvious to me that OJ received Paula's message when he subsequently left a message later that day on Gretchen Stockdale's machine that said he was "Finally free for the first time in his life".Why something like that was even allowed in court still baffles me. It shows nothing. OJ was flirting with another blonde. Yeah. Yawn.

As far as I'm concerned, Gretchen Stockdale's testimony was one many classic "waste of time" moments at the OJ trial.

limakey

04-18-2006, 11:54 PM

Wukong,

I have to disagree with you about the over simplyfing (sp?) of OJ's and Nicole's relationship as a couple as well as with their relationships with others. I think it has been so blown out of portion that people forget that at the end of the day, they were both human, had their faults and neither claimed to be perfect.

I do give you credit for using your experiences as a guide. I have done the same and that is why I feel the way I do. I know what I said, how I acted when I went through a divorce. I said some things I truly regretted, I said some horrible things that I can only hope God can forgive me. I made threats that at the time I meant them only to have a serious reality check and again, hope that God would forgive me. (Personally, I don't care if my ex forgave me, because he is the reason I made them - but you know what I'm trying to say!)

I do believe OJ Simpson loved many women, but I do believe he was only ever truly in love with Nicole. I think Paula knew that, as did the others did. No matter how many times OJ may have told them that he loved them, they knew the difference, they knew the place Nicole had in his heart.

I could see your point if more time had passed, but if you think about the history of Nicole and OJ, they were the couple who were made to break up and make up. If you go by what Nicole's friends have said about her, I believe that OJ knew that Nicole would eventually want him back again. Sure, they may have broken up a few more times but that was the history of their relationship.

The same with Paula, he is calling her that night for a ride, to me, if I was Paula, I would have been doubly pissed off that I left him this long message and he is calling me a hours later to ask me to take him to the airport!

I do believe Paula was special to OJ and that they may have had a future if the murders didn't happen but I seriously doubt it. There was no way that Paula was going to live in Nicole's shadow and even if she and OJ had children, she knew that she would have to get in line with the ex's. It would take a strong woman to do that and I don't know if Paula had that in her.

I think once you are a player, you are always a player and never look back. When OJ spoke about Nicole's relationship with other guys, he always says he cheated on her and that he had no room to talk that Nicole was with other men. I'm sure he felt guilty and still feels guilty that it was his cheating that cost him the only woman he truly ever loved.

limakey

04-19-2006, 12:04 AM

Kate,

I think it is wrong to say that OJ or anybody else was too much of a coward to committ suicide. Had he committed suicide, he would still be called a coward.

I have had much experience with this and it doesn't matter who the person is who committs suicide or why they do it, they will be called a coward. The sad part, it is usually the family members that love them most is doing the name calling.

Suicide is a permanent solution to usually, a temporairy situation.

My spelling is way, way off tonight, sorry. Been a long few days and nights.

limakey

04-19-2006, 12:07 AM

Dr. Walker told OJ that even if you batter only once, you still get the title of batterer. I believe she also said that he understood this and later said that OJ was one of the few men she knew that actually learned from that one incident.

And remember, Nicole had the same title OJ had, and it doesn't matter if she battered OJ or the maid, you hit someone, you are a batterer.

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by DiddleySquat
Why something like that was even allowed in court still baffles me. It shows nothing. OJ was flirting with another blonde. Yeah. Yawn.

As far as I'm concerned, Gretchen Stockdale's testimony was one many classic "waste of time" moments at the OJ trial.

DiddleySquat, I some what agree with that.

What is more telling about this is what Paula Barbieri said. Paula testified that based on what Simpson said in messages he left for her that day she believed that Simpson had picked up the message she left on his cell phone message center at 7:00 AM Sunday morning.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by limakey

The same with Paula, he is calling her that night for a ride, to me, if I was Paula, I would have been doubly pissed off that I left him this long message and he is calling me a hours later to ask me to take him to the airport!

Limakey, Simpson lied when he said he was calling Paula that night at 10:03 to get a lift to the airport.

Simpson had told both the cops and Dr. Walker that he knew Paula was out of town, plus a limousine had been ordered by Cathy Randa to be at his house at 10:45.

bobaugust

limakey

04-19-2006, 12:34 AM

Taz,

I realize that you think it is a big deal that OJ's house was changed for the jury but don't you think that could have just easily backfired? Don't you think that a couple of jurors noticed it and didn't take it well?

Don't forget, very early on in this case there was already a wide division between blacks and whites. The media never missed a chance to say how OJ had distance himself from his community, that he lived in a white world and all his friends were white, etc.

They could have just as easily hated OJ for marrying a white woman and then having his home changed around. However, even if they did notice and even if they hated OJ for it, was that suppose to matter to them when looking at the evidence? Was it suppose to have anything to do with where the glove was found?
Did it have anything to do about blood evidence not being seen or collected for days or weeks?

Really, in the big picture, it doesn't matter who's pictures were on the walls, it was where were blood drops on the white carpet? Where was the dirt on the white carpet? How did he drop that glove back there?

The sole reason for that jury to go on that tour was to see the crime scene at Bundy and where evidence was found at Rockingham. IMO

limakey

04-19-2006, 12:37 AM

So who was OJ calling? And I think in OJ's statement to the police was that he knew that Paula might have gone out of town but tried her anyway.

Wukong

04-19-2006, 03:58 AM

Limakey,

I was not talking about OJ and Nicole specifically when I said people trivialize the dynamics of the relationships. You assumed I meant OJ and Nicole's relationship. Go back and read what I wrote.

After reading your response I see that now you ARE trying to trivialize the dynamics of OJ's and Nicole's relationship, so now I will talk about that. You seem to shrug off the relationship like it was not a big deal; they got together and split up all the time, she'll eventually want him back, so OJ wasn't worried. This is not trivializing the relationship? Then you say "Once a player always a player, never look back". Then in the same paragraph you say that you think "OJ feels guilty to this day". These two statements are completely opposite. First you say OJ was a player, just looking for the next conquest, never looking back. Then you have OJ looking back with guilt about his cheating ways. You can't have this both ways Limakey.

So if, as you say, OJ was just a player, never looking back, then all the turmoil in his relationships at that time just rolled off his back like water off a duck. He didn't care one little bit about this 'cause he wasn't looking back. I guess him calling Gretchen and the Playboy model is proof then.

How about this as an alternate way of looking at what OJ might have been thinking that night. Mind you this is just one scenario I just made up that is just as possible as any other:

He is obviously having problems with Nicole. She's playing hardball with the kids, returning stuff to him, basically dissing him at the recital, no invitation to the big family dinner afterward. He had recently caught her giving a Brentwood hello to Keith, he's learning about all these men and Nicole's partying out on the town. He served her with a notice about the IRS, she was threatening to expose OJ and Kardashian's illegal gambling and porn business as revenge. Basically she's not playing nice. Now Paula breaks up with him, he gets only Gretchens answering machine. I know that Diddley and Bob don't think this is important but to me it goes towards his state of mind. Why would he say "I'm free for the first time in my life"?? Is this his normal pickup line? No, I think this was his thinking at the time: "I'm OJ the player! I don't look back, I'll just find me some new Ho". I also think that when he was sitting in that big house, all by himself, no one to talk to but Kato, he starts going over all this stuff in his mind. He calls Christian Riechart and talks to him for over half an hour about Nicole. He calls Nicole to talk to Sidney and Nicole doesn't even acknowlege him. I think he sat there brooding and steaming and I think he finally snapped.

Hey, why not? You guys have your ideas, here's one of mine.

Wukong

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by Wukong

How about this as an alternate way of looking at what OJ might have been thinking that night. Mind you this is just one scenario I just made up that is just as possible as any other:

He is obviously having problems with Nicole. She's playing hardball with the kids, returning stuff to him, basically dissing him at the recital, no invitation to the big family dinner afterward. He had recently caught her giving a Brentwood hello to Keith, he's learning about all these men and Nicole's partying out on the town. He served her with a notice about the IRS, she was threatening to expose OJ and Kardashian's illegal gambling and porn business as revenge. Basically she's not playing nice. Now Paula breaks up with him, he gets only Gretchens answering machine. I know that Diddley and Bob don't think this is important but to me it goes towards his state of mind. Why would he say "I'm free for the first time in my life"?? Is this his normal pickup line? No, I think this was his thinking at the time: "I'm OJ the player! I don't look back, I'll just find me some new Ho". I also think that when he was sitting in that big house, all by himself, no one to talk to but Kato, he starts going over all this stuff in his mind. He calls Christian Riechart and talks to him for over half an hour about Nicole. He calls Nicole to talk to Sidney and Nicole doesn't even acknowlege him. I think he sat there brooding and steaming and I think he finally snapped.

Hey, why not? You guys have your ideas, here's one of mine.

Wukong

Brian, very good. I like it. You summarized everything we know about that must have really bothered Simpson. In the past when Simpson was faced with this kind of anger towards Nicole, he could talk to Paula and she could pull him back to normalcy, but not that day. She too deserted him with her dear john message, and going out of town yet he still called her ten times that day evidently wanting desperately to talk to her and for her to help him.

Still Simpson may never have taken this to the next step other than making angry threats to Nicole except for the trigger. Gigi's 8:00 telephone call. That call opened the door. It provided an unexpected opportunity that Simpson never planned on. Simpson changed his clothing, found reasons to talk to Kaelin and then still made a last attempt at calling Paula before he left for Bundy, but nothing happened to stop him.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-19-2006, 05:48 AM

Thanks Bob!

I knew you'd like this. I have a feeling there may be more than one person who takes exception with my version though. That's OK, I've got more scenarios that fit the evidence. Alas, I'm sure they won't like those either.

Wukong

Wukong

04-19-2006, 07:39 AM

Ray,

I don't think the call to Gretchen meant he was going to kill. I just think it was just another hint as to OJ's state of mind. "I'm free for the first time in my life". I believe that after he sat down and really thought about this fact, the more he didn't like the idea of being completely free. See, I don't think OJ is the player he made himself out to be. I think deep down inside he just wanted to be with Nicole and the kids. It was only when he was thinking with the wrong head is when he went-a-cheatin'.

The part of your post concerning considerations OJ SHOULD have been thinking about did not enter his mind. As I clearly said in my little scenario; OJ SNAPPED.. When someone snaps, all logic goes out the window, similar to when he was thinking with the wrong head.

Wukong

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

again, reading into my post what you want, rather than what is obvious! So you've only busted yourself, for not being objectionable...

I can only read into your posts what you say, and what you said specifically Netta is that AC as a "black Man" knew he wouldn't get in trouble. You were speaking of AC as a black man, you most certainly were not referring to yourself and your own thoughts as a black man in that post and anyone with two eyes can clearly see that.

Simpson tried the same type of spins, they didn't work for him and they don't work for you here.

Please attempt to stop burying yourself any further on this particular topic, you were caught and the best thing to do would be to admit it. But I certainly won't hold my breath on that one.

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I don't know OJ, so I can only speculate what his mindset my have been. I do know Kato never said OJ was pissed, as you claim!

Simpson's friend Ron Fischman did testify however that Simpson was angry and that he said "I'm gonna get her, but good".

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by limakey

I realize that you think it is a big deal that OJ's house was changed for the jury but don't you think that could have just easily backfired? Don't you think that a couple of jurors noticed it and didn't take it well?

They could have just as easily hated OJ for marrying a white woman and then having his home changed around.

I think you may be missing the point that the jurors had never before been inside the home of OJ Simpson, so how would they be able to take offense at a change they didn't know occurred?

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by limakey
Kate,

I think it is wrong to say that OJ or anybody else was too much of a coward to committ suicide. Had he committed suicide, he would still be called a coward.

I have had much experience with this and it doesn't matter who the person is who committs suicide or why they do it, they will be called a coward. The sad part, it is usually the family members that love them most is doing the name calling.

Suicide is a permanent solution to usually, a temporairy situation.

My spelling is way, way off tonight, sorry. Been a long few days and nights.

limakey,

Simpson has been a coward all of his life, and never more so than that day in the Bronco.

He savagely ended the lives of two young people who wanted to live and then he has the nerve to put a gun to his head and contemplate taking his own life? That is what a coward does, and that is what he did.

I'm not concerned with the idea that you think my thought process is wrong, as I am just as disturbed by many things that are a part of your thought process.

tazzybaby

04-19-2006, 09:02 AM

Originally posted by limakey
Taz,

However, even if they did notice and even if they hated OJ for it, was that suppose to matter to them when looking at the evidence? Was it suppose to have anything to do with where the glove was found?
Did it have anything to do about blood evidence not being seen or collected for days or weeks?

Really, in the big picture, it doesn't matter who's pictures were on the walls, it was where were blood drops on the white carpet? Where was the dirt on the white carpet? How did he drop that glove back there?

The sole reason for that jury to go on that tour was to see the crime scene at Bundy and where evidence was found at Rockingham. IMO

Hi Limakey,

I do think it's a big deal. Why? Because he was playing games. It is just one bit of proof of the Defense trying to purposely sway the jury. Why not just art? Why didn't they just put Art work up on the walls? They purposely chose the pictures that they chose. Backfire? Why would it backfire? It worked just the way they wanted. It was just one more drop in the big bucket of smoke and mirrors. They made the house warm and cozy. The jurors were in awe. That's what they were going for. They went thru the trophy room before anything. Why would they be mad for him marrying a white woman while touring the home? There was no mention of her in that home. They took that down.

What did this have to do with giving a verdict on the evidence alone? Well, Cochran told them to "send a message" that they weren't going to take crap from the LAPD any more. What message was that? That blacks had been mistreated by Law Enforcement long enough. They weren't going to stand for it anymore. They believed that LE could have planted because they had been mistreated by LE in the past. There wasn't any evidence of planting. There was a cut that OJ had (LE couldn't plant that) and his blood at the scene of both locations. But, they knew that LE had mistreated them in the past so it must be true this time. The evidence was overlooked. Not guilty in three hours. Then the juror gave him the salute. Changing the house did affect the way that they looked at the evidence. It prejudiced their reasoning. In the big picture, it mattered who's pictures were on the wall. That's why the defense changed them.

As far as the carpet was concerned....the carpet had been cleaned before the second search warrant. They didn't allow illuminol evidence at that time. That would have been very interesting though.

Yes, the whole reason to go on the tour was to see the location where the bodies were found. They needed to see how small the area was. They also needed to see the back of the house on Rockingham. The view point of the limo driver. There was no need to go thru the house by way of the trophy room. They really didn't even NEED to see the bedroom. There was nothing that could be gained from seeing the actual bedroom. Pictures were sufficient. I do agree that seeing the back of Kato's wall was necessary and the Bundy crime scene.

tazzybaby

04-19-2006, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

*snip*
ps he did not have a lot of time to ' think" about the situation after the call from paula because if i am correct her call came at about 10:00 pm or he tried to call her at about that time. i am not sure but there was not a lot of time for him to 'THINK' about it.

what did he do, get her call, run up stairs, change clothes, get a cao, etc get a knife and run to the bronco without thinking at all.

if oj had wanted to kill nicole he had resources to accomplish this
without having fingers point to him and doing it in such a messy manner. imo

the "he snapped" theory has not convienced me. oj was use to all kinds of pressure in his personal life and business not related to women.

Hi rayray,

Paula testified that she called OJ at 7:00 a.m. and left the "dear John" message. He tried to call her several times during the day. His last call to her was at 10:04. He said that he was in his car driving around when he called her from his cell phone. So, he had plenty of time to think about it.

I wonder how things would have turned out if Paula would have answered. Would he have calmed down any if she had of answered? Or would it have upset him more if she still didn't want to be with him? I don't think that Paula alone triggered anything. I think she was part of the equation. I also think that OJ and Nicole did indeed talk on the phone that night. He probably confronted her about "playing hardball" with the kids. He was already threatening her with the IRS. He was playing hardball himself. The 911 call when he broke the door to get in came after he and Nicole talked on the phone. He was still pissed and he drove over there. Why isn't it possible that he did the same this night? The "he snapped" theory is very plausible. He had done it just the prior year. He snapped when he went to Nicoles and forced himself in. He didn't care if she wanted to talk or not. He didn't care if the kids were asleep. I wonder what he would have done to her if Kato wouldn't have been there to witness?

weezer

04-19-2006, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Nobody would have done what AC did, not even you! You are right. I also wouldn't have sat on the sidelines and let my dear, dear friend use his wife as a punching bag and listen while he demeaned and emotionally abused her. I also wouldn't have been johnny-on-the-spot to do the clean up after my dear, dear friend's rages. But then that's just me -- obviously you have a different perspective to what friends should do.

weezer

04-19-2006, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

again, reading into my post what you want, rather than what is obvious! So you've only busted yourself, for not being objectionable... I also don't find her objectionable.

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by limakey
Dr. Walker told OJ that even if you batter only once, you still get the title of batterer. I believe she also said that he understood this and later said that OJ was one of the few men she knew that actually learned from that one incident.

And remember, Nicole had the same title OJ had, and it doesn't matter if she battered OJ or the maid, you hit someone, you are a batterer.

The definition of a batterer is not someone who simply strikes another person, and if you read Dr. Walker's book you will understand that there is much more to the title of a batterer than striking someone once.

For example, a person that gets into a bar fight and punches someone is not a batter. Rather, they have committed an act of battery. There is a very distinct difference. The child that smacks their sibling because they won't share the crayons is not a batterer, rather they have committed an act of battery. Nicole striking a maid does not make her a batterer, rather she has committed an act of battery.

Being a batterer in psychlogical domestic violence context is using violence, emotions, and sexual acts as a means to assert control over another individual. The batterer wants to dominate their partner and uses different methods to gain their compliance such as financial and economic restrictions.

A batterer’s behavior is most often a learned behavior which the abuser chooses to engage in. Batterers perfect their behavior through observation, experience, reinforcement, culture, family and community. A batterer learns what works to make the victim do what he or she wants.

weezer

04-19-2006, 10:55 AM

*Snipped* Originally posted by limakey
And remember, Nicole had the same title OJ had, and it doesn't matter if she battered OJ or the maid, you hit someone, you are a batterer. WTH -- :confused: OJ was the only person to have accused Nicole of that. He always saw himself as the victim -- never anyone else. Remember in his suicide letter he said "I feel like a battered husband. . . ." What a joke.

weezer

04-19-2006, 11:00 AM

*Snipped* Originally posted by limakey
When OJ spoke about Nicole's relationship with other guys, he always says he cheated on her and that he had no room to talk that Nicole was with other men. I'm sure he felt guilty and still feels guilty that it was his cheating that cost him the only woman he truly ever loved. Your post almost sounds like the makings of a romance novel. Unfortunately, this is the saga of a double murder and the man responsible for them being let go by a system and a jury that failed us all.

OJ had threatened Nicole that if he ever found her with another man, he'd kill her (Nicole's diary/friends' testimony). The only reason he feels guilty about Nicole's death is because he was the person wielding the knife that slit her throat.

weezer

04-19-2006, 11:18 AM

*Snipped** Originally posted by rayraytwo
THE 911 CALL IN 1993: O. J. said You really are going to have to bolster your arguments with something besides, "OJ said..." He has been proven to be a liar in even the smallest details of this case so we can assume that he is of course lying about all.

weezer

04-19-2006, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by socaldiva

I know there has been some question among us as to whether or not he went there to kill her or to scare her. Being that he seemed to be creating an alibi beforehand with Kato, it sure seems like he went there expressly to kill her. I've wrestled with that too. But when I read what he said at the initial LE interview and what Ron Shipp testified to -- "I've had dreams about doing things . . . ." -- I'm not so sure that the escalation of events those last couple of weeks didn't put it on course for the disaster that happened. I do believe anyone capable of beating her the way he did is also capable of murdering her. MOO

2L8 4A D8

04-19-2006, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

That doesn't mean Paula left OJ, it could have gone the other way around..

I don't think that OJ would have ever dumped Paula. OJ didn't dump women, he just cheated on them!

JMO and MOO!!

tazzybaby

04-19-2006, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
hi tazzy

here is another version of the 911 kicking the door incedent.

*snip*
ray

Hi rayray,

Have you ever listened to the call? Nicole told OJ to leave and he wouldn't. There is no justification for anything he did there. He was screaming and yelling and his kids were asleep. If someone doesn't like what someone else is saying and they turn to go into their own home it is not the other persons right to enter their home without being asked to come in. Nicole was scared. She wanted him to leave and he wouldn't. That wasn't his house. It was hers. He should have left. I don't care if the door was previously broken or not. He wasn't invited in. It's not his right to bully his way in.

She didn't stay in the room because the kids were there asleep.
She was definately afraid. She told the operator that he was going to beat the **** out of her. Once she saw that the situation was under control and the police were there she didn't want OJ to get in trouble. Very common in abusive relationships.

OJ's version of the events sugar coat everything. He does not tell the raw version. He tells the fairy tale story.

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

hi tazzy
was illuminol used to see some blood drops in the bronco by the sid people.

look both sides tried various things to make their side of the case look good to the jury. that is the name of the game.
i don't think the trpohy room caused the jury to think anything other than oj was a popular football player and he received a lot of thophies. the bedroom was where the sock was found.

rayraytwo, Yes, Luminol was used in the Bronco. You keep overlooking all of the new pictures in the house showing how proud Simpson was to be a black man.

Evidence Dismissed,
"On Friday, August 26, while Lange is at Keystone Tow in Van Nuys, scientific testing is continuing on Simpson's Bronco. The detective watches as the passenger seat of the vehicle is carefully removed by the SID. Crime lab technicians are specifically conducting further testing into the amount of blood contained in the vehicle. Using the substance Luminol, a sophisticated but toxic spray-on chemical that makes blood glow in the dark, the technicians find several additional locations of blood evidence in the Bronco. They are quickly collected and cataloged by a SID criminalist."

American Tragedy.
"The white women on the walls have to go, and the black people have to come in. All along the wall on the curving stairway, pictures are taken down. Ditto for the photos of white women downstairs. A few pictures of white female movie stars are left near the bar. Simpson always surrounded himself with photographs of his friends. Rockingham's walls, end tables and shelves overflowed with them. The faces were overwhelmingly white. That's not the way to please a jury dominated by African American women.

"We've got to have pictures of his family, his black family, up there," Cochran says.

Kardashian has photos enlarged at Kinko's, then framed nicely. One is even carefully placed in the kitchen. The jurors won't notice that they are color photocopies.

We're getting manipulative here, Bob (Shapiro) thinks. He is embarrassed. Then he resolutely shoves the feeling aside. If the prosecution is too dumb to check the photos they took of those walls the day after the murders, it's not our fault, he decides. If they can't figure out that we'll show the jury O.J.'s proud to be a black man, too bad.

Cochran wants something depicting African American history. "What about that framed poster from my office of the little girl trying to get to school?" he asks.

Johnnie means Norman Rockwell's famous 1963 painting. 'The Problem We All Live WIth', in which a black grade school girl walks to school surrounded by federal marshals.

They hang the framed poster at the top of the stairs, where the jury can't miss it as they go up to Simpson's bedroom. Everyone is pleased. This has little to do with a search for the truth. This is stagecraft."

bobaugust

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

AC never testified he witnessed any abuse against Nicole by OJ..
Where did you get this stuff?

He testified that while he never witnessed the physical abuse, he was often times called over to Rockingham after the fact where he would sit with Nicole and once brought her to the hospital for her visible injuries.

We "get this stuff" from court transcripts.

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

wukong
i hear you but thinking with the wrong head is quite different from
commiting murder.
remember oj thought a lot about his image as that was his livelyhood. cannot see him snapping in this was and tossing it all down the drain.
ps he did not have a lot of time to ' think" about the situation after the call from paula because if i am correct her call came at about 10:00 pm or he tried to call her at about that time. i am not sure but there was not a lot of time for him to 'THINK' about it.

what did he do, get her call, run up stairs, change clothes, get a cao, etc get a knife and run to the bronco without thinking at all.

the issue bob talks about the maid not comming to work: kato was still there, he could have been walking around the property any place when oj left and oj did not know if arnell would be driving into rockingham at 10 pm or 1 am. he did not know if a neighbor would be walking a dog at 10; 10 15 and saw him leave.

if oj had wanted to kill nicole he had resources to accomplish this
without having fingers point to him and doing it in such a messy manner. imo

the "he snapped" theory has not convienced me. oj was use to all kinds of pressure in his personal life and business not related to women.

rayraytwo, your facts are wrong again.

Paula left her message on Simpson's cell phone at 7:00 AM that morning. Simpson tired calling Paula ten times that day. He listened to her message at about 6:56 PM and 8:55 PM that night. The last time Simpson tried to call Paula was 10:03 PM.

Simpson wasn't worried about Kaelin. This was Simpson estate, not Kaelin's. He knew Kaelin was in his room behind the house. Kaelin didn't roam around Simpson's property, and didn't enter Simpson's house unless he was invited. Simpson came and went all the time without Kaelin seeing or hearing him. Simpson knew Arnelle was out for the evening.

As to witnesses who may have been walking by Simpson's house, he had no control of that and most likely never considered it. Besides the fact a witness did walk his dog near Simpson's house that night and didn't see the Bronco.

The reason that things got as you say messy, was because of the unexpected arrival of Ron Goldman. Whenever Simpson encountered an unexpected situation that night he left incriminating evidence. Do you honestly think that people who commit murders think about all of the things you list?

You're making naive arguments in hind site after these things happened. Not even you have the insight to know what will go wrong or happened before a crime is committed.

bobaugust

weezer

04-19-2006, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

AC never testified he witnessed any abuse against Nicole by OJ..
Where did you get this stuff? Re-read AC's testimony -- he admitted everything except the actual acts (he would never incriminate his OJ). He heard the screaming, cursing, demeaning, throwing clothes out the window, he saw the bruises, lumps and bumps -- That's where I got this stuff. I think almost as llittle of AC as I do OJ because he could have stopped it and didn't. He knew what OJ was doing and didn't stop it. I don't know what hold OJ had/has over him but whatever it is/was, it made him a sorry human.

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Most people who PLAN a MURDER such as you claim OJ did , would have attempted and iron clad ALIBI... He still didn't have an alibi, Kato had unlimited access to going and coming from Rockingham..

Nettathirty, Kato had unlimited access but his access was from the back of house and the Ashford gate. He could come and go without ever seeing or knowing what was going on in Simpson's house.

Simpson believed he did have an alibi. He planned on a very quick trip. Go to Bundy, do what he had to do and than get back home and leave town. Before he left he tried to use Kaelin as part of his alibi narrowing the window when he planned on no one seeing him.

The fact is that Simpson had no alibi for the times of the murders, yet you still believe him. So I guess his no alibi was good enough for you, right?

bobaugust

weezer

04-19-2006, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

So, he's not saying who started these fights between OJ and Nicole.. IIRC only the 89 incident which the maid was clearly involved resulted in Nicole voluntarily going to the Hospital..

It seems many of you, have adopted the mindset that men typically batter. . Please tell me that you are not saying Nicole was the batterer.........God forgive you. MOO

2L8 4A D8

04-19-2006, 03:44 PM

weezer

04-19-2006, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty
Most people who PLAN a MURDER such as you claim OJ did , would have attempted and iron clad ALIBI... He still didn't have an alibi, Kato had unlimited access to going and coming from Rockingham.. Kato and OJ had minimal contact and had NEVER been any place together much less out to grab a burger. I can only imagine the panic OJ felt when Kato invited himself along......LOL

weezer

04-19-2006, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty
fbgweezer
Is it possible the arguing was more Nicole than OJ, the lumps and bumps you refer to, are from the 89 incident.. The maid was clearly involved in that, and Nicole went to the Hospital voluntarily.. I don't believe you are the fool you are playing about this. You do know that OJ told the police, "You guys have been out here eight times before but now you want to make a big deal about this?" What do you mean the maid was involved in that? I'm starting to think that you weren't interested in this part of the evidence so you just glossed over it. Please go back and read the testimony before you do anymore posting. MOO

weezer

04-19-2006, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

With the MAID clearly involved in the 89 incident you firmly believe it was OJ, and probably not the maid who may have struck Nicole? OMG -- you have got to be kidding me! If that's the case, I wonder why OJ didn't make the maid pay the fine and do the community service. Poor, poor OJ -- the victim AGAIN.

weezer

04-19-2006, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Why did the COPS lie, why did the Prosecution lie? They didn't. However, OJ's lies were proven over and over.

weezer

04-19-2006, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by socaldiva

Precisely. Even if he was just going to use that gear to scare her, he wouldn't need an alibi. Clearly she would have known it was him, if she had lived...... I had always kind of given OJ the benefit of 'going nuts' and murdering Nicole during one of his rages but since this board, I've come to realize that he had to have intended on murdering her or the steps leading into that night would not make any sense. And then, of course, I keep going back to his letter and Ron Shipp's testimony.........

weezer

04-19-2006, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

The maid placed the call to 911 in 89! Why would she do that if she wasn't under attack by Nicole? You are very, very confused.................

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

The maid placed the call to 911 in 89! Why would she do that if she wasn't under attack by Nicole?

My goodness, I would certainly hope that anyone would call 911 if they were at home with someone who was being attacked.

Why on earth would you assume that the only reason she should phone 911 is if Nicole is attacking her?

weezer

04-19-2006, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

The reason I asked you this! You being a person with a back ground in domestic violence couldn't possibly be impartial... The jury in the Criminal Trial, based on what they preceived to be mistreatment by the "MAN" made it impossible to render an impartial judgement in terms of police corruption and racism? imo Which makes it all the more sadder. Twelve ignorant people forgot that they were sitting as jurors in a double murder. They thought it was a trial about LAPD and the perceived injustices to the black community. Pitiful.

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

The reason I asked you this! You being a person with a back ground in domestic violence couldn't possibly be impartial... The jury in the Criminal Trial, based on what they preceived to be mistreatment by the "MAN" made it impossible to render an impartial judgement in terms of police corruption and racism? imo

For the record, I have no background in domestic violence and I would have answered the exact same way that Kayleigh answered.

And how offensive. That's like someone looking at you and saying that you couldn't possibly be impartial because you're black.

Kate Sachel

04-19-2006, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

That is what people were saying after the Criminal Trial, about the jury!!

And I assume I would be correct if I said that offended you.

It is unfair to assume that someone cannot be impartial because they were unfortunate enough to be a victim of domestic violence. It is unfair to assume that anyone who has experienced a topic at hand cannot be impartial in conclusions of that topic.

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Your assumption is not fair, and you know I do not believe OJ's version of events.. I do believe him when he says he's not the killer!!

Nettathirty, I see you only believe some of Simpson's lies not all of them, is that right?

Simpson outright lied about everything he said he was doing when the murders were committed. There is no doubt that Simpson was at Bundy at the time of the murders. And it's undisputed that all of the evidence found at Bundy pointed to only three people being there, the two victims and the killer. Nothing points to anyone else except Simpson. Nothing eliminates Simpson.

So what makes you believe that Simpson's not the killer?

bobaugust

weezer

04-19-2006, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Thank you for your honesty!!!

If this is true, which I doubt it because not one juror has said they made their decision because of past injustices.. Why can't it be the same with ANYONE with some knowledge of DM to lack impartiality in viewing the DM in this case? What is "DM"?

weezer

04-19-2006, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

If everybody were the same, how much FUN would that be.. Besides, I have never NOT being invited back to parties!! Yes but how many parties have you NOT been invited TO?

weezer

04-19-2006, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by socaldiva

Well, the family probably assumes you'll show up anyway.....:D :lol:

weezer

04-19-2006, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

You have said it yourself the jury in the Criminal Trial based it's decision on RACE, and don't deny it now!! No one is denying it -- the criminal trial jury based their decision on the case NOT on whethr or not OJ murdered Nicole and Ron BUT instead on their perceptions of LAPD.

weezer

04-19-2006, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

fbg

are you saying that nicole did not hit the maid that day?
ray who had the marks on them when the police got there? Not the maid. Of course I'm saying Nicole did not hit th maid that day and I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Nicole never hit the maid. MOO

weezer

04-19-2006, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

tazzy

do you belive that she called the next morning and apologized for her actions? do you attribute that to being abused also. I don't believe she called and apologized. What would she have to apologize about? "OJ I'm sorry you broke my door and screamed and ranted like a mad man." Give me a break.

weezer

04-19-2006, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo
bob
it was mostly white people that deluded themselves into beliving oj was not a black man. not oj.
medium complection. good looking, not threatening, he never talked about race, some say he even said "i am not black i am oj."
if true that was a perfect statement for white america to hear as oj ran through airports on his way to the hertz rental car counter.

some also say he never talked about race publically and for sure he was was not talking about it like JIM BROWN who was seen as a threat to the idea that 'WE HAVE NO RACE PROBLEM'
but oj never forgot that he was black.imo White people didn't care that OJ was black -- this is the part that the black community doesn't get -- we don't give a rat's behind what color you are. That's why I made the statement to you yesterday that racism comes in all colors.

"Some" don't say -- OJ said he was not black he was OJ. I personally admired Jim Brown and the fight he led for the black people. I thought his rhetoric was militant and often borderline hateful but I didn't fault him for his fight.

weezer

04-19-2006, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Sir, Thank You!!

Even though the jury never said this, and you have nothing to base your opinion on.. Yet you are entitle to this opinion.. Hey, the jury said they based their decision on the evidence -- you don't believe that do you? Surely not.

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

bob
it was mostly white people that deluded themselves into beliving oj was not a black man. not oj.
medium complection. good looking, not threatening, he never talked about race, some say he even said "i am not black i am oj."
if true that was a perfect statement for white america to hear as oj ran through airports on his way to the hertz rental car counter.

some also say he never talked about race publically and for sure he was was not talking about it like JIM BROWN who was seen as a threat to the idea that 'WE HAVE NO RACE PROBLEM'
but oj never forgot that he was black.imo

rayraytwo, you may be right that Simpson never forgot that he was a black man but his attorneys felt that his house needed a complete make over so that the predominately black jury would believe it.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,
The cops did not FRAME OJ.
1. OJ hasn't been killed or attacked since that time..
2. The cops would not have been as incompetent as they where

OJ is not the killer!

Nettathirty, I'm sorry but I don't understand how what you said has anything to do with your belief that Simpson was not the killer.

First you say that police never framed Simpson. Good for you at least you understand that reality.

Then you say that Simpson hasn't been killed or attacked. Yes, that's true but what does that have to do with anything?

Then you say the cops would not be as incompetent as they were. The police made many mistakes in this case, most of them based on the special consideration they had always given and were still giving Simpson. Most of their mistakes was not collecting all of the evidence and a lot of human error. But the fact is that not one single mistake made by anyone in the LAPD ever changed one single piece of the relevant physical evidence that proves Simpson guilty.

So tell me again what makes you believe that Simpson wasn't the killer.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

bob
if you belive that the jury did not understand that oj was forever black then you do in fact believe as you have said many times they were out of touch with reality, uneducated and confused.

rayraytwo, you should be directing your remarks at Simpson's attorneys, not me.

I'm not the one who was involved in making over Simpson house by taking down all of the photographs of Simpson and his white friends and replacing them with photographs of black people. Even going so far as to putting color photocopies from Kinko's in frames and taking a framed poster depicting African American history from Cochran's office and displaying it at the top of Simpson's stairs where the jury couldn't miss seeing it.
bobaugust

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

this house thing has got you ******* in a knot right?

rayraytwo, no it only shows one of the many tactics Simpson's defense team used to deceive and influence the criminal trial jury.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-19-2006, 07:15 PM

I was just going through AC's deposition and found a few things I want to post. Number one refers to AC Cowlings experience with the police prior to the Bronco chase. Much has been made about AC driving the Bronco that day and how no black man would have done that. I believe that each person has their own experiences and that you cannot express a blanket statement that covers all black mens thinking. Here is what AC has to say:

Q: Never in 20 years prior to New Year's Day 1989 LAPD ever stop you for anything?
A: Well, for a traffic violation.
Q: How many times was that?
A: I wouldn't know.
Q: More than once?
A: I guess.
Q Ever get hassled by any cops?
A: No. Always been very nice to me.

It is obvious that AC had nothing to fear from the LAPD. I doubt the thought ever entered his mind that driving OJ around would lead to him getting in trouble. I wonder how many barber shop guys would ever say "the police have always been very nice to me".

Number two has to do with AC trying to minimize the extent of OJs abuse. This happens to be from the '89 incident but the same responses from AC are found throughout his testimony when he is pressed about OJ's abusive nature:

Q: Did she tell you Simpson had hit her?
A: She could have told me that.
Q: Did she tell you that he had - that Simpson had hit her?
A: She could have. I don't remember exactly if she did or not.
Q: Did she say something to the effect that Mr. Simpson had hit her?
A: I don't remember if she exactly said that.
Q: Did she say something to that effect, that Mr. Simpson had hit her?
Q: Did she -
A: I don't remember - it's something - she did mention - I mean, she - like I said, that she - you know, that he hit her.
Q: Did she mention that to you?
A: Yes. If - I think she did mention to me that he did hit her.

I'd like to highlight this answer as an example:

A: I don't remember - it's something - she did mention - I mean, she - like I said, that she - you know, that he hit her.

To be fair, AC does say throughout his testimony that he loved Nicole and I believe he is being honest when he says this. But AC also has known OJ since the third grade and when AC was down on his luck OJ gave him money to buy a house and also set him up in business.

Wukong

Wukong

04-19-2006, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Thnx..

AC sounds like someone who minds himself and abides by the law to avoid trouble...

So, why would he place himself in a potentially dangerous situation? (it's my question)

He had no prior knowledge that he and OJ would be escorted by Police at a snails pace to OJs.. He didn't know that the DA would not even charge him with the MANY LAWS he broke.. OJ was armed, and since he's being sought for DOUBLE MURDER he's dangerous.. By any stretch of the imagination COPS generally come in with GUNS blazing..

Many of us will speculate why he did what he did, alot of you will say his loyalty to OJ.. I hear ya, I'm not buying it!!!
I

AC did not know when they started out in the Bronco that day that he was harboring a fugitive or would be chased by the cops. He was driving OJ to the grave yard to say goodbye to Nicole, that's the story anyway. The snails pace was ACs doing, as you say AC abides by the law.

You really can't be serious when you say that AC would have precognition that he was driving around an armed and dangerous double murderer and that the cops would be after him with guns blazing? Come on, I might have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night. He wasn't driving around with some guy from the barber shop, he was driving OJ Simpson, the famous football player. He knew how much media coverage there was going on. He knew there was no way the cops were going to be chasing him with guns blazing with all those cameras around. Be realistic.

I'll tell you what I don't buy; OJs story!

Wukong

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,

What book did this come from?

Nettathirty, the book you referred to as mine.

American Tragedy Page 470.

bobaugust

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

The physical evidence does not PROVE OJ guilty, at BEST he was there at BUNDY...

How about the multiple shoe prints at Bundy that hasn't been mentioned, those prints tells a different story..

Nettathirty, there was only one set of bloody shoe prints at Bundy.

If you think there were others you are mistaken. Dr Lee testified that he identified another shoe print in a June 13 photograph. Those shoe prints were found to be imbedded in the cement when the walkway was poured. Dr. Lee visited bundy on June 25 and took photographs of two bloody parallel line imprints. They were real except that they were not present in June 13 photographs taken of the exact same place.

All of the relevant physical evidence points to Simpson and only Simpson as the killer. Fiber evidence found on Simpson's socks, the right hand glove, and Ron's shirt ties Simpson to the crime. All of the fiber and hair evidence ties Simpson to the crime. Simpson's blood evidence ties Simpson to the crime.

The simple fact is that there is no evidence that anyone else was at Bundy except for three people, the two victims and the killer. It really doesn't take a great leap in logic to understand that since Simpson was the third person there, he was the killer. His blood mixed with both victims blood in his Bronco prove that.

Your belief that Simpson was at Bundy but not the killer is not supported by anything but your imagination. You can't point to one single piece of evidence to support that claim because there isn't any. Nothing eliminates Simpson. I'm sorry but your belief is not evidence or realistic. Only fantasy.

bobaugust

Wukong

04-19-2006, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

The Barbershop reference is getting OLD!!

Sharpiro had arranged for OJ to surrender himself to Police at 1pm on the 17th of JUNE!! AC was at Kardashian's home, how could AC have not known about the arrest?

Everything else is your speculation what AC was thinking, you couldn't possibly know what AC was thinking.. neither can I!

Netta,

The only reason I used the barber shop reference is because you had used it to make a point. I only used it to dispute your point. This is how debates work. You used the barber shop reference as proof of what AC was thinking. Now you say that you don't know what AC was thinking. I can't follow your logic sometimes.

Wukong

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

The cut on OJ's finger is suspect yet, it can't be explained with this evidence... The Blood drops at Rockingham, Bundy and Bronco does not suggest bleeding killer to ME!!! The Blue/Black fibers, if they weren't in the Bronco, and OJ drove the BRONCO.. sumting wrong!!!

Nettathirty, the blood drops are all consistent with Simpson bleeding from a knife cut across his knuckle. Before Simpson left for Chicago he cared for the cut. It wasn't that noticeable and he had no trouble keeping it out of sight.

Simpson is not stupid. When he talked to the police in his Chicago hotel room and agreed to return to LA he knew that cut was incriminating so he intentionally broke a glass and recut his finger. Simpson made sure everyone saw that cut. Later that day when Simpson was interviewed by the police he didn't know that he had left blood drops everywhere he went after committing the murders. When the police asked him how he cut got the injury Simpson slipped up and said, "Mmm, it was cut before, but I think I just opened it again, I'm not sure. When Simpson was asked if he recalled bleeding in his Bronco, he said, "I recall bleeding at my house and then I went to the Bronco. The last thing I did before I left, when I was rushing, was went and got my phone out of the Bronco." That was a lie.

Simpson never went to his Bronco in the ten minutes or so before leaving for the airport. Simpson read Kaelin and Park's criminal trial testimony and tried to fit that fictitious trip into what they said. He fabricated a new story testifying in the civil trial that he went to his Bronco to get his phone accessories and then he went into his house. He lied contradicting his own words he first told the police.

The tiny blood drops splattered inside his Bronco are completely consistent with the cut on his left hand. They were found on the inside of the drivers door, the instrument panel, and the steering wheel. The blood drop above the outside door handle is consistent with Simpson opening that door with his left hand.

Not only were there no blue black cotton fibers found in the Bronco, no fibers were found in the Bronco. The only thing wrong is your argument. It's based on a false premise. All of the fiber evidence in this case was found only on fabrics. Ron's shirt, Simpson's gloves, Simpson's knit hat, and Simpson's socks.

bobaugust

alien

04-19-2006, 10:21 PM

Hiddy Ho, Neighbors.

I hope that everyone who celebrates Easter had a good one.

I see everyone is still cussin' and discussin'. The one thing I am looking for is an honest to good reason why the NG's feel that OJ isn't guilty. I haven't seen it. We, the G's tell why we feel OJ is guilty. Blood evidence, etc. Just tell me why you feel OJ didn't do it. Tampering by LE has been disclaimed so that can't be the reason. Please humor me and give me an answer. Why do you think OJ did not kill Nicole and Ron Goldman.

I am waiting......

alien

04-19-2006, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Because AC drove the Bronco during the chase.. Case dismissed, Mr Simpson you are free to go!

But, Netta, how does that exactly prove that OJ is innocent. I guess I am not totally understanding your response. With the other evidence, what does the Bronco chase and AC driving have to do with anything that declares OJ's innocence?

bobaugust

04-19-2006, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Bob,

I told you, I believed OJ was at BUNDY!!! Why do insist on proving to me, what I already KNOW?

"The Blue/Black fibers being found only on fibers", the material for the seats and carpet in the BRONCO are also considered FIBERS!!

Nettathirty, I was telling you the evidence that proves Simpson guilty. His blood evidence is at the top of the list. If you believe that Simpson was at Bundy than you believe he was the killer since there is no evidence that anyone else was there except the two victims and the killer.

The seats of the Bronco were leather. I doubt if Simpson's clothing touched the Bronco carpet.

According to you since no blue black cotton fibers were found on the seats you say something was wrong. The fact is that no fibers were found on those leather seats. Based on your reasoning Simpson must have been naked every time he drove his Bronco, right?

Your argument is flawed and meaningless.

bobaugust

alien

04-20-2006, 12:15 AM

Still waiting for intelligent replies from the NG's.

Off to bed. Talk to ya'll tomorrow.

2L8 4A D8

04-20-2006, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Which makes it all the more sadder. Twelve ignorant people forgot that they were sitting as jurors in a double murder. They thought it was a trial about LAPD and the perceived injustices to the black community. Pitiful.

Bingo! You have just hit the nail on the head! Thank you!

:beer: :D :beer:

2L8 4A D8

04-20-2006, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by alien
Hiddy Ho, Neighbors.

I hope that everyone who celebrates Easter had a good one.

I see everyone is still cussin' and discussin'. The one thing I am looking for is an honest to good reason why the NG's feel that OJ isn't guilty. I haven't seen it. We, the G's tell why we feel OJ is guilty. Blood evidence, etc. Just tell me why you feel OJ didn't do it. Tampering by LE has been disclaimed so that can't be the reason. Please humor me and give me an answer. Why do you think OJ did not kill Nicole and Ron Goldman.

I am waiting......

Don't hold your breath Hon. We have asked them ad nauseum and have yet to receive any answer whatsoever from any of them. They all seem to forget about Kato the dog, duh!

Wukong

04-20-2006, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

wukong

something to consider.
1. oj told ac he wanted to go to nicoles grave before turning himself in.
2. ac, knowing that cops were comming for oj, decided to take a chance for a quick trip( to the grave site) to keep oj from doing what he had threatened to do, kill himself at the house.(maby he should have taken the gun from oj if he knew he had it)
3. they went to the grave site and saw the cops. this held them up for a period on time.
4. oj became more distressed about nicoles death, about to be locked up, etc and kinda lost it again.
5. ac now realizing that they had been gone too long and hearing
the APB out for them, started trying to convience oj to go home and turn himself in.

if ac had been a real ghetto hood with a long criminal background,
he may have been the type to say f*** the cops i will help you escape etc etc. but this was not ac's background. i am sure if he had realized that oj would balk and pull the gun etc, he would not have started the trip in the first place.

so i think that netta is correct in a way, the people in his barber shop were not the kind of guys with real criminal backgrounds and would not have opted to take the drive.

some are willing to just deny oj any possible feeling of confusion and distress at the time of the bronco ride because they believe he killed nicole and ron. but i am thinking if this person had been a family member in ojs situation and say a friend had convienced him not to kill himself, they would pleased with the outcome, (giving up) rather than killing himsel in the car.

Ray,

I agree with your post 100%! I never disputed any of these points that you have so eloquently stated.

Wukong

For Ray
:beer:

tazzybaby

04-20-2006, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

tazzy

do you belive that she called the next morning and apologized for her actions? do you attribute that to being abused also.

I haven't heard that. Are you saying that she apologized for calling the cops because he was out of control? Or are you saying that she called and apologized because she had made him mad?

Part of an abusive/controlling relationship is the abuser blaming the victim for his actions. The victim many times thinks that "if I just didn't say that, if I just didn't do that, if I just looked better, if I just did what he said" then the abuse wouldn't happen. The abuser most times tells them that they cause them to fly off the handle. Just like OJ does. He thinks he was justified when he came in the back door screaming. He thinks he was justified when he bashed in the car windows. When he talks about the 89 incident he talks of himself as being a battered husband. Why doesn't he think that if he handled things in a more calm manner that it would work better? I can understand yelling and fighting. That's common. But, he took it a step beyond normal fighting. He went over and forced himself in. He bashed in the windows of the car. Why? That's over the top. I don't care if he pays for it or not. That's taking it too far. He takes it over the top as part of control. What does he say after he bashes in the windows? It's my car. I'll do what I want. But, keep your mouth shut because I'm a star and if you want me to take care of you then you better shut up and do what I say. Man, I'd be scared if someone didn't care what anybody thought or who he hurt by his actions. It's his. He can do what he wants.

OJ was definately abusive. His actions prove it. To admit that he was abusive does not mean that you have to admit that he killed her.

weezer

04-20-2006, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I have NO other facts to support otherwise! How about Carrie Bess's statement, "We take care of our own." Or the male juror that gave OJ the black power salute on his way out. Or Cochran playing to the color of the jury in his statements --opening and closing -- that offered no proof of OJ's innocence only the fact that OJ is black and the prosecution represented LAPD and white. I'm not going to take your statement seriously because there is NO ONE in America that believes the verdict was not about race. However, if you have something that shows that it was something other than about race, please share.

Kate Sachel

04-20-2006, 08:16 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

she did have a habit of apologizing after causing a scene. remember the long begging letter she sent to oj. Please baby take me back. i want to come home.

You have a habit of attempting to distort a situation.

Please detail for me all of the instances that you are aware of to show that Nicole had a habit of apologizing after causing a scene.

Additionally, the letter you refer to did not come after any scene causing. If came after she and OJ were having little contact and she decided she wanted to reconcile.

However, if you'd like to talk about long letters from Nicole to OJ, let's talk about her letter to him in which she advised him how terrible he had made her feel throughout their relationship, how alone and sad she'd felt when he called her fat while pregnant and destroyed her hopes, how horrible she felt with all of his infidelity, how she'd never loved him quite the same since he beat her in 1989.

Yes, let's talk about letters shall we?

tazzybaby

04-20-2006, 08:18 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

most of nicoles friends said she was in great shape and could be agressive and give as much as she took . jason also commented about how much bulk she had developed. but for you i guess she was the timid little woman that cried whenever oj raised his voice.

the picture you try to paint of her being a helpless little sweetie pie does not seem to be true according to people that knew her.

i think she would deliver a cross to the jaw of anyone that pissed her off as she did to michelle the maid when she accused her of covering for oj. imo

Hi rayray,

OMG. Nicole may have been in great shape but she doesn't have a trophy room. She definately was no match for OJ. OJ was one of the greatest football players ever. He took on many BIG strong football players. OJ may have been getting older but he could over power her easily. The pictures of the 89 incident prove that.

No one is trying to portray her as a little helpless sweetie. I believe she was strong. I believe she was in great shape. She ran every day. She wore mini skirts. That still doesn't mean she could take on someone who is BIGGER and STRONGER than she. That doesn't mean that she couldn't be overpowered by someone with big strong arms who is bigger than her.

I would have kicked Michelle's @ss if I found out she was helping my man cheat and hide it from me. I would have hated her too. I do not believe for one minute that the 89 call was Michelle and Nicole fighting. I personally think that Nicole tried to call and Michelle hung up the phone. Michelle tried to protect OJ. She didn't care about Nicole. She tried to talk Nicole out of talking to the police after the incident. She didn't want OJ's name tainted. Poor OJ. That's when he ran from the cops the first time.

Kate Sachel

04-20-2006, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

netta

i do get the impression that there are several women on this thread that has been abused by some men. at least that is the impression some give. if that is the case then, it stands to reason that they would see the issue of abuse in one way. oj beat her daily.

As I stated earlier on this point, it is unfair to assume that a woman is uncapable of being fair and looking at facts regarding domestic violence just because she was unfortunate enough to have been a victim of such violence.

As I told Netta, it's the same stereotyping as if someone were to tell you that you are uncapable of looking at the facts because you're black.

That's the kicker here with the two of you. You get so utterly outraged if you think that anyone is accusing you of being biased because of race and then you turn around and accuse others of being biased because they were abused.

That's horribly wrong.

Kate Sachel

04-20-2006, 08:23 AM

weezer

04-20-2006, 08:23 AM

weezer

04-20-2006, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

fbg
let me try to help you.

when you say 'WE' you are speaking for ALL white people?

Jim Brown was speaking not for only black people, he was and is speaking for the problems that racism brings to black and white people in this country.

but you seem to have the idea that whenever a black man speaks about racism he using this as some kind of excuse to attack all white people.

i am thinking about your previous comment when the subject of racism came up, your comment was that " black people need to stop complaining and do for their OWN community.

the problems created by racism in a socity effects everyone.imo. I'm not going to get into an argument about race with you and I certainly don't need your help in understanding the black/white situation.

I believe my statement that until the black community quits blaming white America, society, and LE for their problems, they will never go forward. Somehow I just can't buy that rhetoric.

weezer

04-20-2006, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

she did have a habit of apologizing after causing a scene. remember the long begging letter she sent to oj. Please baby take me back. i want to come home. As with most things dealing with this case, you are again uninformed. If you would research domestic abuse, you would find that the battered spouse almost ALWAYS apologizes for causing the incident that caused the beating -- real or not. Informed people are not surprised that Nicole tried to keep OJ calm -- that lessened the chances of a beating.

Kate Sachel

04-20-2006, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

2. nicole that would not stay from ojs bedroom

OJ's bedroom? Do you and your wife share a bedroom or does she sleep on the couch? Do you refer to the bedroom as "yours"?
Why do you refer to the bedroom as "OJ's"?

weezer

04-20-2006, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I was referring to myself.. I was thinking, "What would make me do what AC did, me being an INNOCENT LAW BIDING citizen like AC? Speaking for myself, I would only have done it had I known ahead of time the consequences..

I feel like the Bronco Chase was staged, that is why I believe AC drove the Bronco.. I know OJ had a gun to his head and a note, but he also had a disguise, cash and passport!

I BELIEVE MF and VANNATTER did what they did, (HOLD ON TO YOUR HATS) to assure OJ would not be convicted..

MF lied to help OJ, yes I said it!
Vannatter carried the blood back to Rockingham, (without Malice).. He did it to assure OJ would not be convicted..

ALL MY OWN OPINION - NO BOOKS NO MISSLEADING LAWYER QUESTIONS !!! Why would they do that? Did Cochran and team bamboozle the jury and black america by insisting that Fuhrman and Vannatter were the 'twin devils of deception'? I'm not following your thoughts here -- help me out.

Kate Sachel

04-20-2006, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

tazzy
i was not there that night but here is what i understand from what i have read.

I'm not certain where you read this account, but is not accurate. Not according to the responding officer, nor according even to OJ.

weezer

04-20-2006, 08:58 AM

weezer

04-20-2006, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I'm saying the injury to OJs finger was not the result of a KNIFE WOUND. During both trials not one expert witness would say the wound to the knuckle was from a knife.. NOT ONE And NOT ONE said it's wasn't.

weezer

04-20-2006, 09:03 AM

weezer

04-20-2006, 09:05 AM

*Snipped* Originally posted by nettathirty
I was referring to myself.. I was thinking, "What would make me do what AC did, me being an INNOCENT LAW BIDING citizen like AC? Speaking for myself, I would only have done it had I known ahead of time the consequences.. I would have done it for a friend thinking that I could keep him from killing himself. It appears that OJ's and AC's relationship was long and complex and AC had been OJ's grunt in the past on many occasions. MOO

weezer

04-20-2006, 09:11 AM

*snipped* Originally posted by rayraytwo
1. oj told ac he wanted to go to nicoles grave before turning himself in. There's one major flaw to your scenario -- AC KNEW OJ intended to kill himself. It had been discussed at Kardashian's -- even to where to do it. When AC left with OJ, he at least let OJ think that he was driving him to a place where OJ could kill himself.

weezer

04-20-2006, 09:13 AM

*Snipped* Originally posted by rayraytwo
2. ac, knowing that cops were comming for oj, decided to take a chance for a quick trip( to the grave site) to keep oj from doing what he had threatened to do, kill himself at the house.(maby he should have taken the gun from oj if he knew he had it)
AC did not know that the cops were coming for OJ. OJ was to turn himself in and it wasn't until he didn't show up (after several delays and stalls) that the police went to get him. OJ was gone by then.

weezer

04-20-2006, 09:18 AM

*Snipped* Originally posted by rayraytwo
but i am thinking if this person had been a family member in ojs situation and say a friend had convienced him not to kill himself, they would pleased with the outcome, (giving up) rather than killing himsel in the car. Not willing to give Lange any credit for talking to OJ the whole of the Bronco ride?

weezer

04-20-2006, 09:28 AM

*Snipped* Originally posted by rayraytwo
tazzy
i was not there that night but here is what i understand from what i have read.
1. oj in his bed room
2. nicole hears something from a friend that leads her to belive that oj has been cheating with some woman. (oj said nicole misunderstood what the friend said)
3. nicole comes in ojs bedroom and confronts him with the rumor
and get agressive.
4. he gets her out of the room and lockes the door.
5. she gets a key and returns to the room.
6 he gets her out again and she goes to michells room and accuses her opf covering for oj in this affair.
7. michells (i guess ) says no that is not true. nicole already pissed off hits michell. some kind of tussle happens and michells calls 911.
8. oj hears this confrontation comes to michells room and grabs nicole to get her out of the room. she and oj tussle.
9. nicole goes out michells door to get away from oj. hides in the bushes.
10. cops knowing where the 911 call comes from arrives at the house.
11 michelle and oj come out , talk to cops, nicole then comes from
her hiding place. etc etc.

now if this story is at least partly true,, this confrontation was started by who.
1. the friend that told nicole this rummor?
2. nicole that would not stay from ojs bedroom
3. or michelle that did not tell nicole what she wanted to hear. Do you never get tired of posting your distortions and lies? You are truely pathetic.

tazzybaby

04-20-2006, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

tazzy
i was not there that night but here is what i understand from what i have read.
*snip*
now if this story is at least partly true,, this confrontation was started by who.
1. the friend that told nicole this rummor?
2. nicole that would not stay from ojs bedroom
3. or michelle that did not tell nicole what she wanted to hear.

Hi rayray,

This is what I understand:

1.Nicole did accuse OJ of cheating.
2.OJ got pissed and wouldn't even discuss it. He threw her out of the room.
3.Nicole got a key and went back in.
4.OJ hit Nicole and choked her.
5.A 911 call was made and you can hear a woman scream and someone being hit.
6.The police were told by the maid that there was no trouble
7.A beat up and scared Nicole came running from the bushes stating that OJ was going to kill her.
8.OJ said it was his business and why were the cops making a big deal out of it this time because every time before they did nothing.
9.The maid tried to get Nicole out of the police car. She said you don't want to do this Nicole. (I wonder if the maid told OJ that he didn't want to do that to Nicole)
10.OJ left the scene even when the police told him to come out to them. He made a habit out of running from the police when he seemed to be in trouble.
11.It was bad enough for OJ to have charges brought against him.
12.It was bad enough that OJ made a provision in his divorce papers that if he ever did it again....

So, since you are saying that Nicole or her friend started this fight that it was okay that she was beat? Are you saying that since Nicole started the fight that it wasn't OJ's fault that he hit and choked her?

As far as the business with Michelle and Nicole fighting, why didn't Michelle stand up when the police arrived and say that she caused the marks on Nicole? Why didn't Michelle tell the police this? Why didn't the papers say that Michelle was the one who hit Nicole. And, why would OJ sign papers that he knew were false? That's rediculous. And, since Nicole hated Michelle so much I do not believe for one minute that she wouldn't have filed charges against her if she had been the one who hurt Nicole.

Kate Sachel

04-20-2006, 10:50 AM

In addition, Wayne Hughes who was a friend of the Simpsons' and whom OJ thanked in his "suiced note" for all of his support, testified in the civil trial that OJ told him that he had caught too much of a backhand in hitting Nicole in the 1989.

I'd also like to understand where we are getting that Nicole punched the maid that night. As far as i can find thus far there is no testimony or evidence of the sort. Nicole at one time had slapped Michelle across the face outside by the pool, but that is the only incident that I am aware of.

Had it been Michelle that beat Nicole that night, Nicole would have wanted the charges filed against her rather than OJ. I also doubt that OJ would have his name tarnished, come close to losing endorsements, and have to do community service on behalf of a maid that attacked Nicole.

That's just silly.

weezer

04-20-2006, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by tazzybaby

Hi rayray,

This is what I understand:

1.Nicole did accuse OJ of cheating.
2.OJ got pissed and wouldn't even discuss it. He threw her out of the room.
3.Nicole got a key and went back in.
4.OJ hit Nicole and choked her.
5.A 911 call was made and you can hear a woman scream and someone being hit.
6.The police were told by the maid that there was no trouble
7.A beat up and scared Nicole came running from the bushes stating that OJ was going to kill her.
8.OJ said it was his business and why were the cops making a big deal out of it this time because every time before they did nothing.
9.The maid tried to get Nicole out of the police car. She said you don't want to do this Nicole. (I wonder if the maid told OJ that he didn't want to do that to Nicole)
10.OJ left the scene even when the police told him to come out to them. He made a habit out of running from the police when he seemed to be in trouble.
11.It was bad enough for OJ to have charges brought against him.
12.It was bad enough that OJ made a provision in his divorce papers that if he ever did it again....

So, since you are saying that Nicole or her friend started this fight that it was okay that she was beat? Are you saying that since Nicole started the fight that it wasn't OJ's fault that he hit and choked her?

As far as the business with Michelle and Nicole fighting, why didn't Michelle stand up when the police arrived and say that she caused the marks on Nicole? Why didn't Michelle tell the police this? Why didn't the papers say that Michelle was the one who hit Nicole. And, why would OJ sign papers that he knew were false? That's rediculous. And, since Nicole hated Michelle so much I do not believe for one minute that she wouldn't have filed charges against her if she had been the one who hurt Nicole. :beer:

weezer

04-20-2006, 11:04 AM

weezer

04-20-2006, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

so you think ac did not know that oj was to turn himself in that day? I don't think AC cared -- he has shown in the past that whatever OJ wanted, when OJ wanted it, how OJ wanted it is what AC was willing to do. In fact, I'm sure he did know that OJ was going to be arrested just not that the police were coming to Kardashian's. People like OJ and AC are use to living a little different than you and me (at least I assume you) -- OJ drove off in his Bentley the last time police wanted him......

weezer

04-20-2006, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

fbg
read my post again. three QUESITONS were asked. i never put blame of either.
ray Ahh, but you did. You show Nicole as the aggressor. What I read into your post is acceptance of OJ's version and your changes to make it more palatable. The fact is, OJ beat Nicole that night -- and then lied about it. Ran like the coward he is. I love the mental picture of him skulking to his friends and hiding his car in their garage -- conscience of guilt.

tazzybaby

04-20-2006, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i am not saying it is ok for oj to hit her.

if the story is true. oj was in the bedroom. alone.
nicole comes in and ask for or demands a explination.
if oj said i don't want to talk about it. nicole could have said ok, we will talk another time. but it seemed that she didn;t.
look i posted the version i had read, if you have a link to nicol;es or michells version let me see it.
otherwise we are left to believe the version that sounds right to us.

What I tried to do though is show what we do know for sure. Not what OJ said. He will definately try to hide what he did as to not look guilty.

So.....

I am not speculating. The things I listed is what we know did happen. OJ was impeached for saying that he didn't hit her. She had hand marks on her. Nicole never said the maid hit her. The maid never said she hit Nicole.

My link to my proof is the testimony in the civil trial. I think you already have that link but let me know if you don't.

Please provide your link to Michelle is the one who hit Nicole and caused the injuries.

tazzybaby

04-20-2006, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

fbg
read my post again. three QUESITONS were asked. i never put blame of either.
ray

Hi rayray,

That's not the way it came across. I don't blame anyone for actually starting the fight. It is normal that couples fight. Some people are jealous. Some people cheat. What is not normal is beating your wife up because you are mad. Choking, slapping and hitting are not normal things to do. That's why there are laws to protect women from this behavior. That's crossing the line.

weezer

04-20-2006, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i have given you the only version i found. now will you give me the printed version you have?
ray :confused: how about testimony from the criminal and civil trials? The police report and Nicole's letter.Helllllloooo.

Kate Sachel

04-20-2006, 12:14 PM

Can someone please provide me with the information they are using to claim that Nicole punched Michelle (the maid) during the 1989 incident? I have been unable to find anything thus far to validate such a claim.

According to the civil trial testimony, the account that OJ gave to Dr. Lenore Walker of what occurred that night is completely different from what he told Dan Petrocelli happened while in his deposition.

OJ never said at any time that Nicole or Michelle had any type of confrontation. In fact, according to OJ, Michelle was not even present at the time the argument began.

OJ told Lenore Walker that Nicole ran to Michelle's bedroom where she used the phone to call police. OJ followed Nicole downstairs into Michelle's bedroom and the fight resumed. OJ told Lenore Walker that he didn't think Michelle was even in the bedroom at that time, though he said she may have been standing at the door to it.

Sooooo ... can someone tell me where the impression came that Nicole punched Michelle or had nay type of altercation with her that evening?

weezer

04-20-2006, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by Kate Sachel
Can someone please provide me with the information they are using to claim that Nicole punched Michelle (the maid) during the 1989 incident? I have been unable to find anything thus far to validate such a claim.

According to the civil trial testimony, the account that OJ gave to Dr. Lenore Walker of what occurred that night is completely different from what he told Dan Petrocelli happened while in his deposition.

OJ never said at any time that Nicole or Michelle had any type of confrontation. In fact, according to OJ, Michelle was not even present at the time the argument began.

OJ told Lenore Walker that Nicole ran to Michelle's bedroom where she used the phone to call police. OJ followed Nicole downstairs into Michelle's bedroom and the fight resumed. OJ told Lenore Walker that he didn't think Michelle was even in the bedroom at that time, though he said she may have been standing at the door to it.

Sooooo ... can someone tell me where the impression came that Nicole punched Michelle or had nay type of altercation with her that evening? Kate, there is no proof to contradict what you are posting. The NGs have fantasized another story to cover for the coward. It has been my experience with rayray and others that they will change testimony and even OJ's statements to make him look/sound better and especially if they can trash Nicole. MOO

Kate Sachel

04-20-2006, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

if the story is true. oj was in the bedroom. alone.
nicole comes in and ask for or demands a explination.
if oj said i don't want to talk about it. nicole could have said ok, we will talk another time. but it seemed that she didn;t.

On the flip side, OJ testified that once Nicole ran downstairs and into Michelle's room that yes he could have let it be and ended the altercation right then, but he didn't.

Stop blaming Nicole for having her body completely violated that evening.

tazzybaby

04-20-2006, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

tazzy
again i am not for hitting.
so the options for preventing this situaiton were
1. if oj had said yes the rummor is true.(if it was) NOW WHAT
2. was nicole right in trying to force him to give her a answer at
that moment. or could she have backed off until another time?
3. was oj wrong for going to michells room to try to defuse what
appeared to be some hot words between the two.

ray

rayray,

Well, I am glad that you are not for hitting!

However, the way that I see it is that it was OJ's fault that Nicole was always upset about other women. He created her insecurities by cheating in the first place.

So, to prevent the situation he should have remained faithful to her. Especially after he saw how it hurt her. I understand that this particular event she was questioning may not be true. However, he continued to cheat all the way thru. He should have at least understood why she was freaking out. He could have grabbed her and HUGGED her to reassure her. Instead he shoved her out of the room then choked and hit her.

I can understand her not being able to back off. Cheating is a hard thing for anyone to deal with. Especially if you really love the person.

OJ didn't go into Michelle's room to difuse any situation between Nicole and Michelle. He followed her in there to continue his fight. Had he stayed in his room it may have ended there without a 911 call.

Seriously rayray, I don't know what you are reading regarding Michelle that night but it is wrong information. You should read witness testimony and OJ's. Where are you getting this from? Please provide a link.

weezer

04-20-2006, 01:49 PM

weezer

04-20-2006, 02:00 PM

*Snipped* Originally posted by tazzybaby
I can understand her not being able to back off. Cheating is a hard thing for anyone to deal with. Especially if you really love the person. I've wondered what about his masculinity OJ is so afraid of that he has to demean women.

weezer

04-20-2006, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by socaldiva

Maybe he was worried he might secretly take after dear ole' dad ;) :lol: He has slept with some real 'winners' -- if you know what I mean -- I would have been angry to think he was then coming home and climbing into my bed. I actually think it's kind of funny that rayray and others think of OJ as a 'player' because he slept around while he was married BUT they trash Nicole for having any relationships when she wasn't married. Pathetic.

2L8 4A D8

04-20-2006, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snipped* Do you never get tired of posting your distortions and lies? You are truely pathetic.

Meaning no disrespect because none is intended, but what is truly pathetic is all of the G's that continue to post to these two! It's useless and they're getting what they really want which is "all of the attention!"

JMO and MOO!!

weezer

04-20-2006, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8

Meaning no disrespect because none is intended, but what is truly pathetic is all of the G's that continue to post to these two! It's useless and they're getting what they really want which is "all of the attention!"

JMO and MOO!! None taken. It's just that they are so ignorant of the case that you can't help but answer them back. The only mind that I've seen changed is mine. I originally thought OJ went to Nicole's that night to scare/stalk/spy. I now realize that he went there intending to murder her.

tazzybaby

04-20-2006, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

tazzy i will real oj testimony again but not today. too busy.

the big picture was

oj in the bedroom looking at tv i guess.

nicole in another part of the house.

michelle in her room downstairs.

HOUSE IS CALM

Nicole goes in the bedroon where oj is

FIGHTS ALL OVER THE HOUSE.

i have never hit my lady and she has a nice size trap on her (mouth)

RAY

rayray,

Also, read AC's testimony. He has some enlightening information also. He came over the next day and he is the one who made Nicole go to the ER.

I do understand what you are getting at. But, what I am trying to say is that when someone has been cheated on they tend to be more suspicious. They automatically believe it to be true before really finding out the truth.

Like I said though, why didn't OJ understand why she would always be suspicious? Why didn't he grab her and hug her instead of hitting her?

tazzybaby

04-20-2006, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8

Meaning no disrespect because none is intended, but what is truly pathetic is all of the G's that continue to post to these two! It's useless and they're getting what they really want which is "all of the attention!"

JMO and MOO!!

Hi 2L8!!

:seeya:

I think it seems this way so much more because we only have one thread. It seemed a little better when we had subject threads. At least we were discussing something in particular. Now, it's just kinda what ever comes up. However, I don't mind posting with anyone because it keeps me researching.

I miss our old board!

tazzybaby

04-20-2006, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Oct93 OJ was asked by Nicole to leave her Gretna Green house, she later called the cops... She asked him, and he wouldn't leave and many of you thought, had he left NO PROBLEM..

Jan89 Nicole was asked to leave OJs room.. Why didn't she LEAVE? Or is there a double standard with you ladies?

Hi Netta,

When she finally did leave the room he followed her. And, they actually lived together as husband and wife in 89.

OJ came to her house when they weren't even living together. She didn't have to answer to him. He didn't have any right to barge into her house.

She did have rights to be in the room where she lived.

weezer

04-20-2006, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

I think you were more inflamed by the defense, than the JURY..
The jury asked the judge to read back the LIMO drivers testimony and know one elses... The other things you mentioned came from books, and as i've said before the books served a specific purpose.. (Inflaming it's readers) MOO LOL -- this from the man who is confused about the facts of this case to continuously misquote/misrepresent/misstate. They had a specific question about the times he testified to and thought they would get something to read. Instead, Ito had them brought back into the courtroom and the reporter (could have been the clerk) read for about 70 minutes at which time Ito called a recess. Rather than listen to the rest of the testimony, the jury told Ito they had a verdict. As far as I'm concerned, the jury was uneducated and uneducatable. . . . .Their comments after the trial concerning everything from domestic violence to DNA to prove my point. I have been convinced since that jury that no one can get a fair trial IF we continue to use people not equipped to sit as jurors. MOO

bobaugust

04-20-2006, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

wukong

something to consider.
1. oj told ac he wanted to go to nicoles grave before turning himself in.
2. ac, knowing that cops were comming for oj, decided to take a chance for a quick trip( to the grave site) to keep oj from doing what he had threatened to do, kill himself at the house.(maby he should have taken the gun from oj if he knew he had it)
3. they went to the grave site and saw the cops. this held them up for a period on time.
4. oj became more distressed about nicoles death, about to be locked up, etc and kinda lost it again.
5. ac now realizing that they had been gone too long and hearing
the APB out for them, started trying to convience oj to go home and turn himself in.

rayraytwo, when Cowlings drove Simpson from Kardashian's house he was taking him to the Bel Air Church after Simpson had been walking all around the grounds of Kardashian's house trying to find a place to kill himself.

Cowlings knew Simpson had his gun with him. A short time later Simpson called Kardashian and told him he had put the gun to his head and pulled the trigger but the gun jammed. Kardashian asked him where he was and Simpson told him he was at the Bel Air Church. After that they drove to the cemetery.

bobaugust

Kate Sachel

04-20-2006, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Oct93 OJ was asked by Nicole to leave her Gretna Green house, she later called the cops... She asked him, and he wouldn't leave and many of you thought, had he left NO PROBLEM..

Jan89 Nicole was asked to leave OJs room.. Why didn't she LEAVE? Or is there a double standard with you ladies?

He lied about so many things ... what if he didn't ask her to leave?

Did you read my post in which OJ told Lenore Walker that Nicole did leave after they fought and that he then followed her downstairs to Michelle's room where he continued the fight? Are you aware that he testified that he did so even though he knew it was wrong?

weezer

04-20-2006, 03:35 PM

Kate Sachel

04-20-2006, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

OJ didn't continue the fight, he followed her to prevent a fight! Nicole hated Michelle and accused Michelle of covering for OJ !!

You are incorrect.

According to what OJ told Lenore Walker (whose notes and deposition were admitted into trial) and according to OJ's own testimony in civil trial there was NO altercation between Nicole and Michelle.

OJ admitted that he followed Nicole when he shouldn't have, and said that it had nothing to do with an altercation between Nicole and Michelle!

What is wrong with you that you won't even bother to look into this to find out the truth? It's from OJ's own mouth on two seperate occasions for God's sakes!

2L8 4A D8

04-20-2006, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by tazzybaby

Hi 2L8!!

:seeya:

I think it seems this way so much more because we only have one thread. It seemed a little better when we had subject threads. At least we were discussing something in particular. Now, it's just kinda what ever comes up. However, I don't mind posting with anyone because it keeps me researching.

I miss our old board!

:seeya: Hiya back Tazzy. Glad to see that you are still posting. Yes, I miss our old Board too. It was great to have information on the fence, the Bronco or whatever when you had a question or wanted more information on a certain subject.

weezer

04-20-2006, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

Originally posted by fbgweezer
He has slept with some real 'winners' -- if you know what I mean -- I would have been angry to think he was then coming home and climbing into my bed. I actually think it's kind of funny that rayray and others think of OJ as a 'player' because he slept around while he was married BUT they trash Nicole for having any relationships when she wasn't married. Pathetic.

Was it your bed ?????????? like oj. I don't have a clue what you are saying/asking/insinuating but I don't think you do either.

weezer

04-20-2006, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i forgot about that. she was still living on oj's dime???? and doing the bunny hop around town?
And having "fun" with keith i didn't know that.

fbg? You are a sick little puppy. Anyone that would take enjoyment from trashing an innocent victim of a brutal murder needs to re-check their soul. MOO

Kate Sachel

04-20-2006, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by socaldiva

They won't look at the truth, because it's ugly: Their "Hero" is a double murderer & they have been deluded into thinking he's not. MOO.

I mean, I'm one of the first never to believe what comes out of OJ's mouth but in this case the facts corroborate what he says.

There is no evidence to suggest that an altercation existed that evening between Michelle and Nicole and since no evidence exists to show that, I would be inclined to believe OJ when he says also that no altercation between Nicole and Michelle occurred that night.

Michelle even testified in the civil trial and she never mentioned an altercation that evening between herself and Nicole.

Kate Sachel

04-20-2006, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

i forgot about that. she was still living on oj's dime???? and doing the bunny hop around town?
And having "fun" with keith i didn't know that.

fbg?

Was she supposed to never have sex again after her divorce was finalized? You seem to forget, as you often times do, that OJ was the cheater and all of Nicole's sexual activity came after her divorce.

How unfortunate that you find it acceptable to make such despicable remarks. You are clearly a disrespectful man and I'm guessing you'd have no problem cheating on your own wife, especially when we now know how you refer to her mouth.

2L8 4A D8

04-20-2006, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by fbgweezer
None taken. It's just that they are so ignorant of the case that you can't help but answer them back. The only mind that I've seen changed is mine. I originally thought OJ went to Nicole's that night to scare/stalk/spy. I now realize that he went there intending to murder her.

IMO, they are faking ignorance because they know it gets everybody's dander up. I know that the Board would be very boring if it was just us G's, but come on, they can't be that stupid! Oh, wait, oops, better not answer that question.

JMO and MOO!!

Kate Sachel

04-20-2006, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by socaldiva
Pathetic. "Still living on OJ's dime", "wouldn't leave HIS bedroom".
You can bet that if Nicole was spending money that she wasn't entitled to legally, he would have put a stop to it. The money was HERS & she was legally entitled to it. Not that that has anything to do with OJ being a batterer, a murderer and a cheat.

Yes, I guess that the fact that she catered to his every need and gave birth to two of his children to whom she was a wonderful mother earned her nothing from him.

Never mind the fact that she didn't work while married because he didn't want her to.

2L8 4A D8

04-20-2006, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Kate Sachel

Was she supposed to never have sex again after her divorce was finalized? You seem to forget, as you often times do, that OJ was the cheater and all of Nicole's sexual activity came after her divorce.

How unfortunate that you find it acceptable to make such despicable remarks. You are clearly a disrespectful man and I'm guessing you'd have no problem cheating on your own wife, especially when we now know how you refer to her mouth.

Puhleez, RR2 can't be married. Where is his wife when he is posting all of his crap? He lives on the OJ Board, where is she? I bet she is working to support him so that he can be on the OJ Board all of the time.

JMO and MOO!!

2L8 4A D8

04-20-2006, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by socaldiva

I don't think they're faking anything :shrug:

:lol: You said it, not me! :lol:

weezer

04-20-2006, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Dr Lenora Walker, who founded " Battered Women Symdrome" seems to think Nicole wasn't! of course she did.

weezer

04-20-2006, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by socaldiva

Then she is a rather ignorant "Dr" & I would venture to say there are plenty of other professionals that would disagree with her. She said Oj was a batterere and Nicole was his battered spouse.

weezer

04-20-2006, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Dr Lenora Walker, who founded " Battered Women Symdrome" seems to think Nicole wasn't! LOL but she lied about her notes from talking with OJ while he was in jail and admitted abusing Nicole and having thoughts of killing her? Are you picking and choosing lies/truths again?

weezer

04-20-2006, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

She did not! Of course she did. She said OJ was an abuser and that he told her he had thought about killing Nicole.

weezer

04-20-2006, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Of course she did. She said OJ was an abuser and that he told her he had thought about killing Nicole. Or words to that effect.

weezer

04-20-2006, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty
Please provide a link or ANY documentation that supports your claim!

Dr. Lenore Walker is the psychologist who pioneered the "battered woman syndrome theory," and the defense had her interview and test Simpson. It was her opinion that although Simpson had battered Nicole at one time, he did not fit the pattern of a batterer who goes on to kill his victim. She believed that the only way that Simpson could have been the murderer is if he committed the crime in a fugue state, and since he did not have a history of such an aberration, that seemed virtually impossible. She did not testify because of tactical considerations by the defense (Schiller, p. 391 - 393). I don't know where you got your information from but I remember reading that she said OJ was a batterer and Nicole was a battered spouse.

weezer

04-20-2006, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Here's a fact: According to Dr. Lenora Walker an EXPERT on DV, OJ wasn't a batterer and Nicole was being battered! Then who was battering Nicole?

bobaugust

04-20-2006, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

bob

i see the changes made at ojs house as a effort to present their client to the jury in the best light possible.
the jury could still see who the close friends of nicole and oj were when they testified in court. there was no long list of black people saying we were aware of nicoles and oj life and problems
as were were close friends.

i think for some reason you belive that the change in the pictures in the house meant that oj had been living a life as not as a black man but one that desired to live a white lifestyle and that if the original pictures had been left in place, the jury would have been pissed at oj for this life style and would have rendered a different verdict. imo WRONG.

rayraytwo, no that's not what I think.

You keep missing the point. The fact is that Simpson left the black community well before his trial. Cochran and company had to bring him back by deceiving the predominately black jury with these kind of tricks to support their defense built on race. After the trial Simpson again left the black community of LA.

bobaugust

2L8 4A D8

04-20-2006, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Stereotyping this man is tacky in my opinion!

Sorry if the truth hurts. That is JMO and I will stand by it

Wukong

04-20-2006, 07:24 PM

From Netta's post:

"It was her opinion that although Simpson HAD BATTERED Nicole at one time, he did not fit the pattern of a batterer who goes on to kill his victim. "

When I read this it clearly says Simpson was a batterer. The point in this quote was really about what kind of batterer he was. The good DR. says he was not the type of batterer that kills his victim, but a batterer none the less.

The reasons why Simpson killed Nicole were not limited to strictly "batterers syndrome" where the battering escalates slowly to the point where the batterer goes into a fugue state (loses it). Control was part of the reason, Nicole threatening to expose his illegal business dealings played a part, Nicole playing hardball with the kids, Nicole no longer the controllable 17 year old he first met, etc.....

Another dynamic I think may have been pointed out by Ray himself. OJ felt that Nicole was living on his dime and out doing the bunny hop! Nicole had HIS money, HIS kids, HIS house, HIS cars.... What was OJ at Gretna Green that night screaming and yelling about? HE didn't like who Nicole was hanging around with. HE didn't like that Nicole had pictures of other men in HIS house (Gretna Green), HE didn't like that other men were driving HIS car (Ron Goldman, OJ found out about him driving Nicoles, Errrr OJ's, Ferrari). In short, HE was losing control over Nicole and because she LEGALLY had HIS money, house, cars, kids and there was nothing HE could do about it, no more control.

My opinion, of course. But based on fact and a little help from Ray in pointing things out.

Wukong

alien

04-20-2006, 08:13 PM

I found my addiction.....
This board. I can't stay away.

I can understand the NG's wanting to believe with all their heart that OJ is innocent. I would just like to see some good evidence from them. And better arguments.

However, what I can't understand is this undying belief that everything OJ did was great and wonderful.

Believe that he is innocent of murder if you want to, but at least admit that OJ wasn't a nice person and wasn't what he portrayed to the public. He was a batterer and cheated on his wife.

I was married, for a short time, to a batterer. It started out as verbal abuse and escalated to hitting. Everyone who knew the man I was married to, thought he was a wonderful person. Being a proud woman, I never wanted people to know that I had married a man like that so I never said anything. When the violence escalated I always believed that he could kill me. It is always a thought in the back of your mind. So I tried everything I could to keep things calm in our relationship. He on the other hand, would loose his cool at the drop of the hat. From my experience, I believe batterers enjoy the control and will find any and every reason to find fault so they can start using their control again.

Thank God, I was finally able to get away from him. I had such a wonderful support system and people were always around so he couldn't get near me. However, there always could have been that one time when no one was around that he could have "gotten" to me. I will always believe, even after 20 years, that if he had the chance, he would have killed me.

alien

04-20-2006, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

I have never hit my lady and she has a nice size trap on her (mouth)

RAY

rayray, I can't believe you would refer to your wife this way. What kind of respect is that? Does your wife know you talk about her this way?

Wukong

04-20-2006, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Doing a little spinning are we:

Dr Walker, actually said this:

It was her opinion that although Simpson had battered Nicole at one time, he did not fit the pattern of a batterer who goes on to kill his victim..

Netta,

The quote I posted is exactly what you posted here. There was no spin to what I said. The Dr. clearly says OJ "battered Nicole at one time". I call that battering; what do you call it?

Wukong

alien

04-20-2006, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by socaldiva

I'm sorry to hear of your first hand experience with this topic & I'm so glad you were able to find a way out for yourself.

Unfortunately, some NG's here will use this information against you to say that you are biased. It's sad, but I've seen it happen more than once. I'm sure you remember the old expression "consider the source". ;)

Hey, Girl.

Unfortunately I have a lot of different life experiences that were not good. I am certainly not biased. I use those life experiences as a tool to help me understand things. To help me "know better" than just someone who offers an opinion, not that opinions are valid. Of course you know what they say about opinions :D

If OJ had never been charged because someone else came forward and admitted to killing Nicole and Ron, we would have never been introduced to OJ's dark side. We would still believe that he was the wonderful man he portrayed to the public. We would feel sad for his lose.

During the trials, etc, it came to be known that OJ did hit Nicole. He even admitted it. Do you think he uses that as a justification for how he acts now. He still got away with murder, but he shows his dark side. Threatening another motorist, etc. Then there is the cable stealing thing. I would think that if I was someone who got away with murder, I would life an exemplary (SP?) life and never let anyone see my dark side. I think he is just a cocky person who walks around thinking, hey I got away with murder. I can get away with anything. JMO.

Can any of you NG's explain to me why you think OJ acts like he does?

bobaugust

04-20-2006, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by rayraytwo

you would not recognize the black community if you lived in central compton ca. so stop talking about stuff you are ignorant of. ok

ray

rayraytwo, that's funny. Being ignorant of the evidence never stopped you from expressing your opinion about it.

You're right I don't know very much about central Compton. CA. I don't know if you even do but either way it's meaningless. I was referring to the black community that Darden spoke about.

"Darden: I still don't quite understand that and I don't believe it. I don't believe the poll. I think black folks know like I know, like O.J. knows, like Johnnie knew, and everybody. You just have to look at the facts. It's clear that he did it. O.J. knows he did it. And to see polls like that, I don't know what the point of the polls to be. I think it makes a mockery of us, our history, our civil rights movement, this trial, those polls, these supposed attitudes that we as a community have of about O.J. Simpson. I don't know why we always want to get behind the criminal and never get behind the victim. We're the ones being victimized.

Darden: "I think there have been better symbols that could have been utilized, not O.J. Simpson. Didn't live in our community. Visited our community right after the trial, got some awards from prominent black politicians, so called
black leadership, left, hadn't been back since. This is going to be the example here? This is the pay back?'

bobaugust

alien

04-20-2006, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by socaldiva

I don't know. My first guess is that he is just such a jerk, it's impossible to hide it. He knows that he's never going to be accepted back into mainstream America & his hero days are long, so what the hey. Or maybe he thinks he can b.s. his way out of those situations too. In any event, he's already slipped out of a murder rap, so everything else, is a walk in the park. :shrug:

We are certainly on the same page with our thinking.

I agree with the fact that he is a jerk, but I do think he tried to hide it when he was in his glory days. I also think that no matter what any poles show, he will never be the same HERO that he used to be. A few stragglers hang on to what he used to be, but the majority of people think that he did get away with murder because they read all the evidence presented. OJ's future was in the hands of the jury and they let him go.

The one justification that we who believe he got away with murder is the fact that he is a fallen hero. His lot in life will never be the same that it was when he was a "somebody". Now it just seems that his life is fodder for the trash mags. JMO. Maybe that is his punishment. Only the Lord knows and OJ will be judged when his final day comes. I always wonder if he will ever admit to it. Even on his death bed.

alien

04-20-2006, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by socaldiva

We are definitely on the same page :beer:

As for the deathbed confession, I don't think it will happen. He has no soul & there would be nothing for him to gain. It is all about him in his mind.

Not to totally get off the subject of OJ, but what about Scott Peterson. Remember how cocky he was during trial. And I remember the picture of him being led out with his orange jumpsuit and handcuffed. He still had that smirk on his face. Now I hear that he is a broken beaten man. I wonder if he would have been like OJ if he had been found guilty. People like OJ and Scott justify everything they do.

You are probably right though. There would be nothing to gain for OJ to tell the truth. IMO he is still hanging on to the persona that he is "OJ". I guess that explains it all. He is always right.

alien

04-20-2006, 09:26 PM

If any NG's would like to jump in on the conversation socal and I are having, please feel free. Actually if anyone wants to jump in with your thoughts, please feel free.

alien

04-20-2006, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by socaldiva

Yes, I do remember! They are probably both sociopaths.

Remember his being all cocky, and then wacking his head on the van? Loved it!

TEE HEE :D but apparently it didn't "wack" any sense into him.

I know I was off the subject, but it kind of plays into how I wish it would have ended for OJ.

I have to wonder how some people can get away with the things they do. My Daughter says it is their Karma, but in the end the Karma gets you.

IMO, it is about the jury and the defense lawyers. Scott had Mark G (what a joke). OJ had the Dream Team who knew how to play to the gallery. They said the right things and it swayed the jury. The emotional impact of Sharon Rocha far outwayed anything Denise Brown said. IMO, the jury was on a path of vendetta. Let's show the white community/cops the finger.

alien

04-20-2006, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by socaldiva

I agree with your Daughter about the Karma, but with celebs it seems we have to wait a little longer :D

I think AF's tape was huge in showing was a liar SP was & showing his demeanor being out of place.

I think OJ won because of 1) the timing relative to the riots & Rodney King 2) celebrity 3) knucklehead jurors

Sad, but true. Celebrities know how to "act". The whole Rodney King throws me for a loop and I don't even understand how it comes into play. You bet that video was horrible. I was upset watching it, but it was such a different scenario. Rodney was and still isn't a law abiding citizen. He is a pathetic person and didn't learn a thing. He just kept doing stupid things. I am sure the celebrity thing had a huge impact (like Michael Jackson). Dear God in Heaven, a hero like OJ could never do the things that were presented. He was an upright justice man, whatever. Again, I say, the jury was giving the finger to the white community.

Please understand that I have no biases about anyone's background/color whatever. My Daughter is totally in love with an Afro American man, who I will embrace someday as a Son-in-Law. However, after the Rodney King trial when everyone in the Black comminity started rioting, why didn't they riot in the White community? IIRC, they rioted in their own community and the destruction was unbelievable. They hurt their own brothers. What is up with that?

alien

04-20-2006, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

Not attacking you Alien, just using u to make a point!

Not taking your post as a personal attack. I never thought that OJ was guilty because of the history of battering. I thought OJ was guilty because of all the evidence. The death of Nicole was the end result of all the battering that escalated. Ron was just an unfortunate person who happened n additioby when it was going on.

Please understand from my personal experience and expertise is that battering is a control thing. The batterer, for whatever reason, wants to have total control over the person they batter. There is a history of Nicole and OJ breaking up and her coming back to him. As long as Nicole did that, OJ still had her under control. When she finally found the guts to leave for that last time, that took all the control away from OJ. IMO, he lost control of himself and wanted the final control. What better way than to kill that person. Please remember that what I say is what I have experienced. There is so much history out there of people who lose control of the person they batter and end up killing them.

netta. I feel that you are not a batterer and have never been the victim of domestice violence, so you probably could never understand the dynamics of that kind of situation.

IMO, in the begining, Nicole was probably swayed by the OJ we, the public were used to seeing. He was kind and gentle to her. Once he had her, the true person begins to emerge. My batterer was a really nice guy. He treated me wonderfully. When he finally had me (a wedding ring) the true person came to life. It starts with emotional control (your fat, your ugly, you aren't very smart...no man would have you but me). I was allowed to work because I made more money than he did. But he did his best to keep me away from my friends. The only thing he didn't reckon on was my family. He couldn't keep them away from me. I stated in an earlier post that because I was a proud person, I would never let anyone know that I had made the biggest mistake of my life. I also said that I believe with all my heart, that he would have killed me had the opportunity come about.

alien

04-20-2006, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by nettathirty

It's sad you feel this way, it's so NOT TRUE!!!

With this type of thinking, the gap between the races will never close!! This is what is sad!!

netta, the gap can and will close if we let it. We have to quit living in the South of the 60's and look at all the headways Black people have made. Condaleeza Rice? Do you think she let the past put a damper on her aspirations? I myself embrace all races and backgrounds. I am very proud of my heritage, and yes I can't ever remeber the bad things that were done to the Irish people, but you can bet my Grandmother did. To the day she died, she hated the English people for what they did to the Irish. My Grandfather hated the "Yankees" for the Civil War. Do you think I go along those lines. Heck no. I look at people for what they are. But reading this board and other things, I feel that the Black race can't and won't let go. Not all of them, mind you, but a whole heck of a lot of them do.

It is up to our generation and the generations to come to make the difference. My Grandchildren have no idea that they are different because their Dad's are Mexican and Puerto Rican. Will my future Grandchildren think they are different because their Dad is Afro American. Hopefully not, but it is our responsiblity to make that happen. We are the enlightened generation.

Wukong

04-20-2006, 11:35 PM

Netta,

You need to read what Dr. Walker said again. She established that OJ was a batterer and was just clarifying what kind of batterer he was not.

Wukong

alien

04-20-2006, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by socaldiva

Have you seen the NG's posts? Sorry to say, I dont' see them as being "enlightened". :tongue:

But that is what I am trying to say. We can be the enlightened generation if we choose to be. I said that in my post that what I read here is that they keep the race line going on and on ad nauseam (sp?). I have no clue as to the age of rayray and netta, but rayray said he is a Grandfather so he must be in my generation.

socal, you have made it clear that you are not a racist person as have I so I would never argue with you. I'm probably just trying to change the world and enlighten people as to what the real world is about. I am sure you have the same mind set.

I say, "Let's go Girlfriend"...