General Case Discussion: OLD THREAD

[weezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


You would think LE would have checked the buzzer-- I'm surprised they did not.

Do you think this is possible:
Ron was just going to drop the glasses off-- so when he got in front of Nicoles, he beeped the horn, she went out, got in the car for a few minutes to talk and thank him, and during that conversation she invited him in, he accepted and went to park the car. She got attacked as she walked back in, and then Ron shows up because he didn't just drive away, he parked and came in behind her. There has never been any testimony/statements to anyone hearing a car horn. There has never been any evidence/statements that Nicole was ever in the car Ron was driving that night.

LE did note that the buzzer for the front gate was not working that night. Posters on this board have differing theories on how the gate was unlocked and what caused Nicole to be outside.

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


bob has said this about wagners site many time on this thread.
martin II This is not true or at least not from anything I've ever read that bob has posted regarding wagner's site. Most reasonable people consider wagner's conclusions as to the crime to be fantasy and I for one consider them ludicrous.

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


if oj was ever at bundy, there is no evidence to point to him arriving or leaving from the sidewalk in front of nicoles condo.
martin II I was responding to netta's theory that Orenthal arrived at Bundy after the murders. And, depending on your persuasion, the fact that the front gate was open and the fact that Orenthal was in possession of the key to unlock the front gate, you could deduce that Orenthal came to the property through the front gate.

[martin II]

Originally posted by Beebee


You would think LE would have checked the buzzer-- I'm surprised they did not.

Do you think this is possible:
Ron was just going to drop the glasses off-- so when he got in front of Nicoles, he beeped the horn, she went out, got in the car for a few minutes to talk and thank him, and during that conversation she invited him in, he accepted and went to park the car. She got attacked as she walked back in, and then Ron shows up because he didn't just drive away, he parked and came in behind her.

i cannot remember any information that would not allow this to be possible. he could have given her a general time he would arrive and she could have been listening for the car horn.

consider these issues.

1. nicole had the house or room lit with candels as if she
expected company.
2. cora fishman testified that nicole or faye told her that nicole had
expressed some kind of interest in seeing what ron was about.

so she very well could have invited him to park and come in.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I was responding to netta's theory that Orenthal arrived at Bundy after the murders. And, depending on your persuasion, the fact that the front gate was open and the fact that Orenthal was in possession of the key to unlock the front gate, you could deduce that Orenthal came to the property through the front gate.

based on the foot pints leading to the back gate. and
based on heidstra saying he saw a white jeep come from the area of the west alley on dorothy to bundy.
it is more reasonable to belive the killer arrived and left by the back gate.imo

martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
There has never been any testimony/statements to anyone hearing a car horn. There has never been any evidence/statements that Nicole was ever in the car Ron was driving that night.

LE did note that the buzzer for the front gate was not working that night. Posters on this board have differing theories on how the gate was unlocked and what caused Nicole to be outside.

no one knows if she did or did not get into a car that night.
the only informaiton we have about exactly what nicole did after she got home from the ice cream bar is that there were a few phone calls made by her and to her condo and that she was outside when the killers attacked her.

if she went and opened her back door, or peeked out her front door and closed it. there would be no evidence of this.
if she went to the sidewalk to speak to someone and no neighbor saw her and the person never came forward. there would be no evidence of her actions.
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


based on the foot pints leading to the back gate. and
based on heidstra saying he saw a white jeep come from the area of the west alley on dorothy to bundy.
it is more reasonable to belive the killer arrived and left by the back gate.imo

martin II Based on what we evidence, we can reasonably believe that Orenthal left by the back gate. We can speculate on which gate he used to enter the property. Personally, I believe he entered through the front gate.

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
i cannot remember any information that would not allow this to be possible. And there is absolutely nothing that corroborates that this did happen.

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
no one knows if she did or did not get into a car that night.
the only informaiton we have about exactly what nicole did after she got home from the ice cream bar is that there were a few phone calls made by her and to her condo and that she was outside when the killers attacked her.
You are right -- sadly, no one does know. Except that is for the murderer who left his blood, footprints, cap, glove and fibers at the murder scene. Your hypothesis that there were multiple killers is wrong. Had there have been others there, there would have been evidence. There was none.

As you've posted in the past, the street and bushes were full of murderers that night. But I guess if one of them saw her sitting in Ron's car, he/they wouldn't have come forward to tell LE.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* And there is absolutely nothing that corroborates that this did happen.

fbg, why do you think Nicole went outside?

As for the car horn, (if it happened that way) who remembers things like a car beep? The thing is, if the buzzer wasn't working, how did Nicole know Ron was out there?
Plus, if Nicole was struck first, then the killer didn't go in after Ron, imo.... or Ron would have been struck first.

[Beebee]

martin check your pm box :)

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* You are right -- sadly, no one does know. Except that is for the murderer who left his blood, footprints, cap, glove and fibers at the murder scene. Your hypothesis that there were multiple killers is wrong. Had there have been others there, there would have been evidence. There was none.

As you've posted in the past, the street and bushes were full of murderers that night. But I guess if one of them saw her sitting in Ron's car, he/they wouldn't have come forward to tell LE.
fbg
you have mistated my words. i have never said the bushes were 'FULL OF MURDERS'

i stated the testimont of the skate boarder when he said he saw
a black headed man hiding in the grass in front of n icoles condo.

then i posted what is said to be tom langs (nicoles neighbor)
report of him seeing some people in front of nicoles condo.

martinII

[weezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


fbg, why do you think Nicole went outside?

As for the car horn, (if it happened that way) who remembers things like a car beep? The thing is, if the buzzer wasn't working, how did Nicole know Ron was out there?
Plus, if Nicole was struck first, then the killer didn't go in after Ron, imo.... or Ron would have been struck first. I've speculated that Nicole knew Ron was coming and when she heard the front gate, she stepped out to open it for him. Unfortunately, it was not Ron she'd heard but Orenthal. Forensic evidence is that Nicole was knocked unconscious and LE theory is that Ron arrived just as the attack was starting. Forensic evidence shows that Ron was murdered first and that after murdering Nicole, Orenthal went back to Ron's body. Forensic evidence shows that Orenthal walked to the back gate.

[martin II]

Originally posted by Beebee
martin check your pm box :)


bee bee
i responded to your pm

thanks
martinII

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I've speculated that Nicole knew Ron was coming and when she heard the front gate, she stepped out to open it for him. Unfortunately, it was not Ron she'd heard but Orenthal. Forensic evidence is that Nicole was knocked unconscious and LE theory is that Ron arrived just as the attack was starting. Forensic evidence shows that Ron was murdered first and that after murdering Nicole, Orenthal went back to Ron's body. Forensic evidence shows that Orenthal walked to the back gate.


Can you elaborate on "she heard the front gate"?
How? Did he bang on it? How could she hear the front gate from the condo with no buzzer?

Do you think OJ was watching the place, or is it just a bizarre coincidence that he just happened to be there the minute Nicole came out to meet Ron, who was parked 50 feet away?

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Based on what we evidence, we can reasonably believe that Orenthal left by the back gate. We can speculate on which gate he used to enter the property. Personally, I believe he entered through the front gate.

Good Morning! If OJ left through the back gate, why would he have taken the chance of being seen walking down Bundy to the front gate in his knit cap, gloves, dark sweat suit, ugly azz shoes and the knife? It wasn't like it was 3:00 in the morning. People were out and about walking their dogs, etc. I would be very afraid that someone might recognize me. Thus, I think that OJ came and left through the back gate.

JMO and MOO!!

[weezer]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


Good Morning! If OJ left through the back gate, why would he have taken the chance of being seen walking down Bundy to the front gate in his knit cap, gloves, dark sweat suit, ugly azz shoes and the knife? It wasn't like it was 3:00 in the morning. People were out and about walking their dogs, etc. I would be very afraid that someone might recognize me. Thus, I think that OJ came and left through the back gate.

JMO and MOO!! and good morning to you. I don't know why I think he came through the front -- just that it makes more sense to me. (I'm not married to this theory) But, he had spied on her in the past -- at least two instances that we know of. One where her neighbor reported seeing someone standing and pacing on the sidewalk in front of her home staring at the house and the second one, when he said he watched Nicole and Keith through the front windows.

I don't think he would have been walking down the sidewalk in his cap and gloves. I doubt anyone seeing him at that time of night would have noticed the shoes and I'd almost bet he wasn't brandishing the knife and had he run into anyone, he would have aborted his plans. He could have slipped the cap and gloves on once he was inside the property. Unless he drove to Bundy wearing the cap and gloves, he had to put them on sometime.

[2L8 4A D8]

Geez! The OJ Simpson Murder Case 101 is now in session ~ ad nauseum!

:chicken: :chicken: :chicken:

JMO and MOO!!

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee



Can you elaborate on "she heard the front gate"?
How? Did he bang on it? How could she hear the front gate from the condo with no buzzer?

Do you think OJ was watching the place, or is it just a bizarre coincidence that he just happened to be there the minute Nicole came out to meet Ron, who was parked 50 feet away?

I cannot speak for fbg, but I believe that it was possiblethat Nicole heard noises outside of her home and assumed that it was Ron arriving, and stepped outside to let him in. At that time, she may have been confronted by OJ.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II


i cannot remember any information that would not allow this to be possible. he could have given her a general time he would arrive and she could have been listening for the car horn.

consider these issues.

1. nicole had the house or room lit with candels as if she
expected company.
2. cora fishman testified that nicole or faye told her that nicole had
expressed some kind of interest in seeing what ron was about.

so she very well could have invited him to park and come in.
martin II

Was the borrowed car checked for evidence that may indicate if someone else was in the car?

Almost everyone who knew Nicole stated that she always had candles lit, so I don't see a connection between such an event and the expectation of company.

[weezer]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


I cannot speak for fbg, but I believe that it was possiblethat Nicole heard noises outside of her home and assumed that it was Ron arriving, and stepped outside to let him in. At that time, she may have been confronted by OJ. Had LE found a lighter or cigarette, I might have thought she stepped outside to have a smoke while waiting on Ron to show with the glasses. But alas, no such evidence so guess something else drew her outside.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
and good morning to you. I don't know why I think he came through the front -- just that it makes more sense to me. (I'm not married to this theory) But, he had spied on her in the past -- at least two instances that we know of. One where her neighbor reported seeing someone standing and pacing on the sidewalk in front of her home staring at the house and the second one, when he said he watched Nicole and Keith through the front windows.

I don't think he would have been walking down the sidewalk in his cap and gloves. I doubt anyone seeing him at that time of night would have noticed the shoes and I'd almost bet he wasn't brandishing the knife and had he run into anyone, he would have aborted his plans. He could have slipped the cap and gloves on once he was inside the property. Unless he drove to Bundy wearing the cap and gloves, he had to put them on sometime.

Please, of course OJ wouldn't be walking down Bundy in his cap and gloves and brandishing the knife. I just threw in the ugly azz shoes because they were part of his get-up. My post should have read "with" instead of "in". I honestly don't feel that he came in from the front because what was he carrying the cap, knife and gloves in? A brown bag?

JMO and MOO!!

[weezer]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


Please, of course OJ wouldn't be walking down Bundy in his cap and gloves and brandishing the knife. I just threw in the ugly azz shoes because they were part of his get-up. My post should have read "with" instead of "in". I honestly don't feel that he came in from the front because what was he carrying the cap, knife and gloves in? A brown bag?

JMO and MOO!! I don't know -- he may have had them stuffed in his pockets -- at any rate, I don't think anyone seeing him would have noticed. Like I said, I'm not married to the idea but by the same token, I don't believe Nicole would have left her front gate unlocked to a busy street while leaving a big knife out on the kitchen counter and bath water drawn. And, if she did leave the gate open, why was she back outside? Why not wait for Ron to knock/ring the bell?

Having said all that, I can understand how some posters believe the scenario where she has gone out to unlock the gate and started back to the door when Orenthal appears from the back.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
This is not true or at least not from anything I've ever read that bob has posted regarding wagner's site. Most reasonable people consider wagner's conclusions as to the crime to be fantasy and I for one consider them ludicrous.
fbg

bobs comments.

That fact destroyed Wagner's fantasy so he made up some ridiculous story that after Simpson entered his estate he went to the center of the driveway and stood and supposedly listened to see if he was somehow being seen or heard entering. Just more unrealistic fantasy from Wagner who would created his own explanations no matter how stupid, dumb, or unlikely so he could keep his failed scenario beliefs going. Sort of like you and your many excuses you use to deny the truth.

bobaugust


martin II

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by Beebee
Can you elaborate on "she heard the front gate"?
How? Did he bang on it? How could she hear the front gate from the condo with no buzzer?

Do you think OJ was watching the place, or is it just a bizarre coincidence that he just happened to be there the minute Nicole came out to meet Ron, who was parked 50 feet away? IF it took a key to open the front gate, I assume it could be heard unlocking. It was a metal gate after all.

I think Orenthal went to Nicole's with the intent to do her harm (BTW -- I haven't always thought that). Unfortunately for Ron, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't have a clue what you are asking about "who was parked 50 feet away."

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Why do you think he would have parked behind the condo & walked around the corner & up the front? I don't follow...... He was obsessing over her clothing that night -- probably thought she was seeing someone -- maybe he was going to come to the front to make sure no one else was there?

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II

fbg

bobs comments.

That fact destroyed Wagner's fantasy so he made up some ridiculous story that after Simpson entered his estate he went to the center of the driveway and stood and supposedly listened to see if he was somehow being seen or heard entering. Just more unrealistic fantasy from Wagner who would created his own explanations no matter how stupid, dumb, or unlikely so he could keep his failed scenario beliefs going. Sort of like you and your many excuses you use to deny the truth.

bobaugust


martin II The criticism is for wagner's conclusions, not the corroborated evidence and certainly not for his collection of pictures, maps, etc.

[martin II]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


Was the borrowed car checked for evidence that may indicate if someone else was in the car?

Almost everyone who knew Nicole stated that she always had candles lit, so I don't see a connection between such an event and the expectation of company.

Other than coras testimony about what nicoles intentions were as it pertains to ron.

martin II

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* IF it took a key to open the front gate, I assume it could be heard unlocking. It was a metal gate after all.

I think Orenthal went to Nicole's with the intent to do her harm (BTW -- I haven't always thought that). Unfortunately for Ron, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't have a clue what you are asking about "who was parked 50 feet away."

Ron was parked about 50 feet away.

So in your speculation, from inside the condo, Nicole hears the gate unlocking... she must have pretty good ears, and just assumes it was Ron? Doesn't look, just goes out? And then sees OJ and he attacks her and Ron walks up?

To me it makes more sense that somebody was watching and hiding, and as soon as Nicole saw Goldman's car, she went out.

jmo

[weezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


Ron was parked about 50 feet away.

So in your speculation, from inside the condo, Nicole hears the gate unlocking... she must have pretty good ears, and just assumes it was Ron? Doesn't look, just goes out? And then sees OJ and he attacks her and Ron walks up?

To me it makes more sense that somebody was watching and hiding, and as soon as Nicole saw Goldman's car, she went out.

jmo Do you believe it was Orenthal watching and hiding?

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II


Other than coras testimony about what nicoles intentions were as it pertains to ron.

martin II

I'm failing to see the connection. It is possible that Nicole did have romantic intentions toward Ron that night, but the fact that she had candles lit has nothing to do with that whatsoever, because she always had candles lit.

In addition, her bed was unmade. As a woman, I can speak with a degree of certainty that most women don't leave a bed unmade when they are anticipating a romantic interlude.

[weezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


Ron was parked about 50 feet away.

So in your speculation, from inside the condo, Nicole hears the gate unlocking... she must have pretty good ears, and just assumes it was Ron? Doesn't look, just goes out? And then sees OJ and he attacks her and Ron walks up?

To me it makes more sense that somebody was watching and hiding, and as soon as Nicole saw Goldman's car, she went out.

jmo Ron had parked on a side street. I've never paid attention as to the distance but 50 feet doesn't sound far enough.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
[BI think Orenthal went to Nicole's with the intent to do her harm

Do you think he intended to kill her while his children were there-- risking that they could find their mother butchered?

With so many ways OJ could have harmed or even killed Nicole, I have always had a hard time believing he would pick the home where his kids were (was there ever any indication OJ did not love his kids?).

OJ might be arrogant, and at times a sob, but to slice up your childrens mother for them to see is beyond sick. I've never seen any indication he wasn't a good parent.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Do you believe it was Orenthal watching and hiding?

I am not convinced it was OJ.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


Do you think he intended to kill her while his children were there-- risking that they could find their mother butchered?

With so many ways OJ could have harmed or even killed Nicole, I have always had a hard time believing he would pick the home where his kids were (was there ever any indication OJ did not love his kids?).

OJ might be arrogant, and at times a sob, but to slice up your childrens mother for them to see is beyond sick. I've never seen any indication he wasn't a good parent.

In my opinion, a man that beats and stalks the mother of his children is not a good parent.

[weezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


Do you think he intended to kill her while his children were there-- risking that they could find their mother butchered?

With so many ways OJ could have harmed or even killed Nicole, I have always had a hard time believing he would pick the home where his kids were (was there ever any indication OJ did not love his kids?).

OJ might be arrogant, and at times a sob, but to slice up your childrens mother for them to see is beyond sick. I've never seen any indication he wasn't a good parent. Orenthal's life was about Orenthal. I doubt he gave the fact that his children were in the home that night even one thought. He didn't consider them when he was beating her before. He didn't consider them when he threatened the IRS. He didn't consider them when he told Nicole not to use the housekeeper as a sitter. Family and friends testified that Orenthal was an absentee dad.

[weezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


I am not convinced it was OJ. What's your theory on how his blood, hair, cap, glove and fibers got to the murder scene?

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Hate to say it, but 50 ft doesn't sound unreasonable to me. The condo is/was 2nd from the corner & it is very close to Dorothy. Oh, okay -- I just figured had it been close to the condo, police would have found it sooner.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


I'm failing to see the connection. It is possible that Nicole did have romantic intentions toward Ron that night, but the fact that she had candles lit has nothing to do with that whatsoever, because she always had candles lit.

In addition, her bed was unmade. As a woman, I can speak with a degree of certainty that most women don't leave a bed unmade when they are anticipating a romantic interlude.

Good point about the bed..... but, maybe it was a spur of the moment thing to invite him in, and maybe she wasn't planning on taking him to the bedroom just yet..... just wanted to get to know him a bit better.

I always wondered about the bath. Maybe she was planning on a quiet night to herself, changed and put her robe on, then when the glasses thing came up and she knew Ron was coming over, she decided to get dressed and light some candles and invite Ron in. Why not put the black dress back on? Makes sense to me.

Along the same lines, as a person who lights a lot of candles, I would not light them in the living room if I was going to be in the bath. I think Ron's upcoming vist changed her mind about the bath. imo

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Ron had parked on a side street. I've never paid attention as to the distance but 50 feet doesn't sound far enough.

Martin posted the info a page or so back.... estimated 50-75 feet.

[Beebee]

Martin- check your pm's again.

:)

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* You are right -- sadly, no one does know. Except that is for the murderer who left his blood, footprints, cap, glove and fibers at the murder scene. Your hypothesis that there were multiple killers is wrong. Had there have been others there, there would have been evidence. There was none.

As you've posted in the past, the street and bushes were full of murderers that night. But I guess if one of them saw her sitting in Ron's car, he/they wouldn't have come forward to tell LE.

Rons wounds.
from the me report the wounds that were the fatal wounds were administered first or almost first and exactly to the area of Rons body that would cause them to be fatal. Then there were what has been called the 'Testing wounds " to his cheek area to see if they would cause bleeding as a indication that he was dead or dying fast. this does not sound like these stabbing were accomplished by a amature that was attempting to kill somone with a knife for the first time.

In the crime scene photos at bundy (wagners site) there are what appear to be smudges on the ground as if the bloody ground had been wipped with a cloth or something to wipe out foot prints or something else.
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


Martin posted the info a page or so back.... estimated 50-75 feet. this is from martin's post: "so i just make a guess that he had to walk about 50--75 feet to get from the car to the condo. I GUESS." Unfortunately, not all of us take what martin has to say at face value and I prefer proof. I'll research and see what I come up with.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


Good point about the bed..... but, maybe it was a spur of the moment thing to invite him in, and maybe she wasn't planning on taking him to the bedroom just yet..... just wanted to get to know him a bit better.

I always wondered about the bath. Maybe she was planning on a quiet night to herself, changed and put her robe on, then when the glasses thing came up and she knew Ron was coming over, she decided to get dressed and light some candles and invite Ron in. Why not put the black dress back on? Makes sense to me.

Along the same lines, as a person who lights a lot of candles, I would not light them in the living room if I was going to be in the bath. I think Ron's upcoming vist changed her mind about the bath. imo

I also light many candles, and I do keep my candles lit throughout my home when bathing. I love the way it smells and looks when I get out of the tub and walk through the other areas of my home.

I think it depends on your comfort level. My mother always lectures me about having my candles lit while unattended, but I'm not concerned.

I think that it is fairly impossible to tell what Nicole's plans were that evening in regard to Ron. Speculation is the best that any of us can do.

[martin II]

Originally posted by SirRalston
Does anybody know anything about the video being released in Europe about Nicole and Ron's murder? Supposidly, Glen Rogers is the main suspect. I would like to get that video if possible, if anybody knows anything, I'd appreciate the info.

sir ralston

i have some hot info on gleen rogers
check your pm

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Do you believe it was Orenthal watching and hiding?

i don't

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


i don't I know your sentiments -- I was asking Beebee.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by martin II


sir ralston

i have some hot info on gleen rogers
check your pm


That video is called Serpent Rising. It can be purchased on DVD- I was thinking about getting it. They claim they also reveal things about the missing phone records... but I haven't watched it so I don't know what they reveal.

Come to think of it.... what IS the story with those allegedly missing phone records?

[weezer]

Originally posted by Beebee



That video is called Serpent Rising. It can be purchased on DVD- I was thinking about getting it. They claim they also reveal things about the missing phone records... but I haven't watched it so I don't know what they reveal.

Come to think of it.... what IS the story with those allegedly missing phone records? You should have bolded and underlined the word "alledgedly" -- I think the dog ate them.

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


What missing phone records? LOL -- when they can't make the evidence fit their fantasies, they have to resort to 'alleged' evidence. IF only they could learn that you don't base a case on what evidence there isn't but rather on what evidence there is; i.e., Orenthal's blood, footprints, hair, cap, glove, fibers at the the murder scene.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
this is from martin's post: "so i just make a guess that he had to walk about 50--75 feet to get from the car to the condo. I GUESS." Unfortunately, not all of us take what martin has to say at face value and I prefer proof. I'll research and see what I come up with.

fbg

palinka (sp) lived down bundy south of dorothy st. about halfway through that block.

she testrified that her condo was 75 feet from nicoles . she said she had measured it.

From that i estimated that it is about 50 ft from nicoles to dorothy
i added another 25 feet as a estimate to where rons car MAY have been parked.

let me know the distance you come up with.

you may want to consider keeping your negative comments to yourself.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Orenthal's life was about Orenthal. I doubt he gave the fact that his children were in the home that night even one thought. He didn't consider them when he was beating her before. He didn't consider them when he threatened the IRS. He didn't consider them when he told Nicole not to use the housekeeper as a sitter. Family and friends testified that Orenthal was an absentee dad.

I second that. I have always had a real big problem with him making them move. He didn't care about his kids when he was trying to make Nicole move.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


I think that it is fairly impossible to tell what Nicole's plans were that evening in regard to Ron. Speculation is the best that any of us can do.

True.

[weezer]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


I second that. I have always had a real big problem with him making them move. He didn't care about his kids when he was trying to make Nicole move. I also thought it was very odd that Orenthal said he wouldn't let Nicole and the kids move back in to Rockingham during the reconciliation because if it didn't work out, they'd just have to move again and then he tells her he's writing a letter to the IRS to report her so she and the kids will lose their home.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by Beebee



That video is called Serpent Rising. It can be purchased on DVD- I was thinking about getting it. They claim they also reveal things about the missing phone records... but I haven't watched it so I don't know what they reveal.

Come to think of it.... what IS the story with those allegedly missing phone records?

Hi Beebee,

My problem with the phone records is that they try and state that the call came in AFTER 11 (This all started because her mother messed up the time of her last call). However, the dog was found before 11. So, I do not believe it. Also, they tried really hard to get this put into court. They have the transcripts out there. It did not fly.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by socaldiva


What missing phone records?

The ones OJ tried to get a court order to get. Supposidly they show a later call from Nicoles mom?

I don't know much about it, but did see some things online that OJ went to court to get them. He must have had a reason.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I also thought it was very odd that Orenthal said he wouldn't let Nicole and the kids move back in to Rockingham during the reconciliation because if it didn't work out, they'd just have to move again.

Right! But, then he'd make them move out of their condo?! He was mad at her and was trying to piss her off. That's why he sent the letter. I just think that it's pretty crappy to do when it involves upheaving the kids.

[tazzybaby]

I am so excited about our new OJ forum!!

Woo Hoo!

:cool:

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


The ones OJ tried to get a court order to get. Supposidly they show a later call from Nicoles mom?

I don't know much about it, but did see some things online that OJ went to court to get them. He must have had a reason.

The phone records that OJ attempted to sue the Browns for are ,in fact, the same records made avilable in his criminal trial.

The defense reviewed the phone records and stipulated that there was no later call made to Nicole from Juditha Brown on June 12, 1994.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I know, I know. I'm guessing the "missing phone records" are the local calls that don't show up on the bill :tongue:


No, you're not experiencing a freakish flashback to 1996. The footballer-turned-actor-turned-acquitted Defendant of the Century will go before a federal judge in Los Angeles Monday, in another attempt to clear his name from the slayings of ex-wife Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman.

This time around, Simpson is battling GTE to release phone records that he claims will give him a solid alibi in the case. According to APBNews, Simpson believes phone records belonging to Nicole's parents will show they made a phone call to her at 11 p.m.--an hour and a half later than they testified they last talked to their daughter.

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,6350,00.html

[weezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


The ones OJ tried to get a court order to get. Supposidly they show a later call from Nicoles mom?

I don't know much about it, but did see some things online that OJ went to court to get them. He must have had a reason. All of the phone records were stipulated to by both the prosecution and defense.

Orenthal's reason for this smoke screen was his SODDI defense.

[tazzybaby]

The latest article about OJ.....

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/entertainment/tittletattle/article_21221699.shtml

And, might I add......YUCK!

I am sick and tired of hearing him joke about the circumstances regarding Nicole's murder.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
All of the phone records were stipulated to by both the prosecution and defense.

Orenthal's reason for this smoke screen was his SODDI defense.

Does anyone have access to the trial transcripts when this stipulation took place? I know it did-- but wasn't marcia clark accused of "pulling a fast one" with that?

Seems wierd to me that OJ went to court to get what was available in his own trial. What did his defense say about the stipulation?

[martin II]

i would like to add.
the testing wounds technique is used by professional killer as a means to make sure the victim has no chance of surviving before they leave. i doubt that the average person would have reason to know about this to do it.

as i have said before only a profesional killer would know exactly where to make the fatal cuts.

if it is ever proven that a killer/s other than oj killed these people,
then we will all have to admit that all of ojs blood drops,cap,fibers and foot prints were in fact planted.

martin II

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by Beebee
http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,6350,00.html interesting article -- written 2000 and still no proof of missing phone calls -- hmmm. This part was interesting, "Simpson also tried unsuccessfully last year to get the phone records through a Texas court, where GTE is based. And while prosecutors and Simpson's former defense team both received transcripts, but Simpson's former attorneys also have refused to provide them, APBNews reports.." Wonder why his own guys didn't share with him?

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* interesting article -- written 2000 and still no proof of missing phone calls -- hmmm. This part was interesting, "Simpson also tried unsuccessfully last year to get the phone records through a Texas court, where GTE is based. And while prosecutors and Simpson's former defense team both received transcripts, but Simpson's former attorneys also have refused to provide them, APBNews reports.." Wonder why his own guys didn't share with him?


I know.

Very strange. :shrug:

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by Beebee


Does anyone have access to the trial transcripts when this stipulation took place? I know it did-- but wasn't marcia clark accused of "pulling a fast one" with that?

Seems wierd to me that OJ went to court to get what was available in his own trial. What did his defense say about the stipulation?

I was just looking at the transcripts several days ago, and will see if I can relocate them.

In addition, it is worthy to note that the phone records were also made available in the civil trial in which the defense also agreed that no later phone calls were made to Nicole from the Brown residence.

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
if it is ever proven that a killer/s other than oj killed these people, LOL -- thank you martin for the laugh.

[Beebee]

Gotta go get some work done..... look forward to seeing you all on the new OJ forum :D

:seeya:

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I also thought it was very odd that Orenthal said he wouldn't let Nicole and the kids move back in to Rockingham during the reconciliation because if it didn't work out, they'd just have to move again and then he tells her he's writing a letter to the IRS to report her so she and the kids will lose their home.

i was reading some of katos testimony last night.

it seems that during feburary to march 1994 the family(nicole oj and the kids) took three najor vacations togeather. cabo san lucas--miami and hawaii.
that oj was staying 5 nights a week at nicoles with her and the children.
martin II

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
that oj was staying 5 nights a week at nicoles with her and the children. Not what Orenthal's statement said.

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby
The latest article about OJ.....

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/entertainment/tittletattle/article_21221699.shtml

And, might I add......YUCK!

I am sick and tired of hearing him joke about the circumstances regarding Nicole's murder.

tazzy
if this is the sex video i don't think oj had anything to do with this
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy
if this is the sex video i don't think oj had anything to do with this
martin II and didn't you say you watched it, martin? so you would be able to identify Orenthal in all his glory.

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
it seems that during feburary to march 1994 the family(nicole oj and the kids) took three najor vacations togeather. cabo san lucas--miami and hawaii.
that oj was staying 5 nights a week at nicoles with her and the children. 'to' march -- so does this mean February?

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* Not what Orenthal's statement said.

fbg

did you do your research on how far rons car was from nicoles condo????? i would be interested to see your results.
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

did you do your research on how far rons car was from nicoles condo????? i would be interested to see your results.
martin II Haven't had time but I will.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
and didn't you say you watched it, martin? so you would be able to identify Orenthal in all his glory.

i saw enough of the video to know that the naked man was not oj. i also saw his lawyers response.

i don't think oj was in any glory as i do not belive he was the person having the sex.
fng

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Haven't had time but I will.

it does not require any special effort.
just look at a picture of dorothy and bundy and measure.
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


it does not require any special effort.
just look at a picture of dorothy and bundy and measure.
martin II LOL -- I think I may need a little more than that.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
LOL -- I think I may need a little more than that.

fbg

look at the same drawing that you viewed when you realized that hedstra was standing midway the alley behind nicoles condo
when he heard hey hey hey.
it may have a scale on it.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


i saw enough of the video to know that the naked man was not oj. i also saw his lawyers response.

i don't think oj was in any glory as i do not belive he was the person having the sex.
fng

Hi Martin,

I haven't seen the video. I did see the front page of badoj.com. But, I didn't verify if I thought it was him or not.

But, I will say this. I know that Yale Galanter would defend him until his dying breath. That is what he is paid to do. They are also friends. So, just because a lawyer says that it is not him does not mean it's true.

However, I do find it odd that all of a sudden all this stuff starts coming out about OJ. I believe that this is completely planned. I believe that he is slowly trying to get his "life" back. I believe that he had a hand in when the "juiced" show came out and the "porn" video came out. There have been several interviews recently. He is slowly trying to make a come back. But, it won't be because he was such a great athlete. It will be because he is infamous for murder. Why such interest in him? He got away with murder. Why do people still want his autograph? Aside from the FEW hardcore Football fans/collectors, it is only because of phsyco curiosity. He got away with murder. I believe there will always be people out there who try and stand up for Nicole and Ron. So, I believe that he will never get his "life" back.

[Kate Sachel]

Originally posted by martin II


it does not require any special effort.
just look at a picture of dorothy and bundy and measure.
martin II

I believe it does require special effort if you are trying to ensure that your research is accurate.

[Kayleighjo]

Originally posted by tazzybaby

However, I do find it odd that all of a sudden all this stuff starts coming out about OJ. I believe that this is completely planned.

Hey Tazzy!

Agreed. It all seems to coincide with the 12 year anniversay of Nicole's death.

12 years later and he still can't stand when she's got attention!

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Martin,

I haven't seen the video. I did see the front page of badoj.com. But, I didn't verify if I thought it was him or not.

But, I will say this. I know that Yale Galanter would defend him until his dying breath. That is what he is paid to do. They are also friends. So, just because a lawyer says that it is not him does not mean it's true.

However, I do find it odd that all of a sudden all this stuff starts coming out about OJ. I believe that this is completely planned. I believe that he is slowly trying to get his "life" back. I believe that he had a hand in when the "juiced" show came out and the "porn" video came out. There have been several interviews recently. He is slowly trying to make a come back. But, it won't be because he was such a great athlete. It will be because he is infamous for murder. Why such interest in him? He got away with murder. Why do people still want his autograph? Aside from the FEW hardcore Football fans/collectors, it is only because of phsyco curiosity. He got away with murder. I believe there will always be people out there who try and stand up for Nicole and Ron. So, I believe that he will never get his "life" back.

tazzy
about a week ago i read , i think it was the drudge report web site that the produsers and marketers of that video had sold 27,000 copies.

there is something like a underground video business world that makes money on these fake type videos. videoing famous
people in normal cituations and then adding doubles in some trashy activities. most people know these are fake and just ignore these offerings.

yesterday i got a spam e-mail with about 25 pictures of what is suppose to be Angelie Joile most in hustler type poses of women.

oj makes money as a golf celebrity in the carribean islands and other ventures as you say autograph items. i see no reason that he would make a sex video like this one.

Florida is a right to work state so i see no reason that oj would not try to rekindle some resemblance of his career just because there are some people that have hate in their hearts for him. Denise says she has gotten over her hatered of oj.
martin II

[Kayleighjo]

Originally posted by Beebee


Do you think he intended to kill her while his children were there-- risking that they could find their mother butchered?

With so many ways OJ could have harmed or even killed Nicole, I have always had a hard time believing he would pick the home where his kids were (was there ever any indication OJ did not love his kids?).

OJ might be arrogant, and at times a sob, but to slice up your childrens mother for them to see is beyond sick. I've never seen any indication he wasn't a good parent.

Yeah, I do think he intended to kill her with the children there. Do you know how many cases there are where men kill their wives in their very own homes right in front of their children? It's insane the things that happen.

There was one story, I have to track down the name, where this woman had left her abusive husband and was remarried. She had custody of the 11 year old son that she had with her abusive ex-husband and was currently pregnant with her new husband's child.

Anyway, the ex-husband found where she was residing and broke in. He confessed to police that as he raped her and beat her (knowing that she was pregnant) that she told him that she was expecting their son home any moment and begged him to stop for the sake of not subjecting him to such a horrific thing to witness. He told police that in his rage he just didn't care. After raping her and beating her, he confessed to killing her with a hammer and leaving her body in the kitchen.

The son and new husband came home together and found her in the kitchen. One year later, the son killed himself. He left a note stating that he could not function and deal with what he had witnessed when he found his mom.

[Kayleighjo]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


In my opinion, a man that beats and stalks the mother of his children is not a good parent.

:beer: :beer: :beer:

[martin II]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel


I believe it does require special effort if you are trying to ensure that your research is accurate.

most maps have a scale on it. that makes it very simple to measure distance. one does not have to skilled in map reading.

by the way how far do you believe ron had to walk back to nicoles condo.
martin II

[martin II]

tazzy

footbal/ sports memorbilia business is not a small group of rabid fans. it is much bigger than that description.
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

look at the same drawing that you viewed when you realized that hedstra was standing midway the alley behind nicoles condo
when he heard hey hey hey.
it may have a scale on it.
martin II You mean when I realized Heidstra was across the street in an alley in front of Nicole's condo?

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy
about a week ago i read , i think it was the drudge report web site that the produsers and marketers of that video had sold 27,000 copies.

*snip* for space

Florida is a right to work state so i see no reason that oj would not try to rekindle some resemblance of his career just because there are some people that have hate in their hearts for him. Denise says she has gotten over her hatered of oj.
martin II

Hi Martin,

I don't know if it's him or not. I don't really care if it is or not. But, there has been speculation for a long time that he did this video. He has denied it. He also denied that there was ever a "Juiced" show. He lied about that. That video just recently surfaced and it's from back when he was denying it. I don't believe him at all about anything. I believe that both of these were done a while back. I also believe that he had a hand in them being released now. Even if it isn't him on the video it is still publicity. The ole saying is "any publicity is good publicity". I think he misses being admired by all. Like I said, he has a very small following but nothing like before. He will never have that again. It's called Karma.

I don't have hate in my heart for him. I hate what he did. He does make me sick at times. I firmly believe that he is paying for his crime now and he will be judged by a higher power. I do think it is in VERY BAD TASTE that he joke about anything to do with his trial. That is the mother of his children. Of course, he didn't respect her then I don't know why I excpect him to now.

:shrug:

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II
tazzy

footbal/ sports memorbilia business is not a small group of rabid fans. it is much bigger than that description.
martin II

Martin,

I didn't say rabid....I said hardcore. And, yes, I know that the Sports collectors is not a really small business. They aren't large enough for him to be back in good graces because of his talents though. However, I also know that they are pretty much all he has left. The hardcore football fans. Not all football fans.

karma

:cool:

[martin II]

tazzy
some people buy those goods because they like oj as a sports hero. they could care less about these trials.

Then others believe oj was wrongly accused and are happy to supppost him year in and year out by purchasing those goods and inviting him to these golf outings.

ps
i think the producers of those type videos put them out at the most opportune time for interest and profit.
cnn--fox and the others do the same. they had stories and promos all over the place on the anniversary.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Here is something to help visualize the whole conversation regarding the map.

http://smartfellowspress.com/High%20Points/Bundy%20Goraham%20Curve.htm

This should help everyone understand where and how far it was.

:seeya:

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Martin,

I didn't say rabid....I said hardcore. And, yes, I know that the Sports collectors is not a really small business. They aren't large enough for him to be back in good graces because of his talents though. However, I also know that they are pretty much all he has left. The hardcore football fans. Not all football fans.

karma

:cool:

tazzy

ok hardcore.

these current and former sports guys can make $30.000---$50,000 or more for several hours of signing a day. shows are all over the country all year long. baseball stuff sell at footbal shows and hocky stuff sell at basket ball shows etc etc
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II
tazzy
some people buy those goods because they like oj as a sports hero. they could care less about these trials.

Then others believe oj was wrongly accused and are happy to supppost him year in and year out by purchasing those goods and inviting him to these golf outings.

ps
i think the producers of those type videos put them out at the most opportune time for interest and profit.
cnn--fox and the others do the same. they had stories and promos all over the place on the anniversary.
martin II

Hi Martin,

I haven't ever seen anyone say they buy only because they like OJ as a sports hero. They buy because they have a collection. They buy because of who he was. Not because they like him now.

I also don't remember hearing anyone say they believe he was injustly accused and are trying to help him out. They are helping themselves out maybe.

PS
I think that OJ signed a contract and it wouldn't be released unless he knew about it. And, as far as the sex tape goes....it would have been better to have it sent out at the 10 year anniversary when there was WAY MORE publicity. It seems to me it is publicity trying to be created.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy

ok hardcore.

these current and former sports guys can make $30.000---$50,000 or more for several hours of signing a day. shows are all over the country all year long. baseball stuff sell at footbal shows and hocky stuff sell at basket ball shows etc etc
martin II

Hi Martin,

I just didn't want you to say that I thought they were rabid. I don't. They are hardcore and most would do anything in their power to get a signature to complete or enhance their collection. That's different than just a fan coming up and telling him that he is their hero and can they get his autograph. That is way different. Just imagine how much he could make if he wasn't tainted? Or that he didnt' owe so much money?

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Martin,

I just didn't want you to say that I thought they were rabid. I don't. They are hardcore and most would do anything in their power to get a signature to complete or enhance their collection. That's different than just a fan coming up and telling him that he is their hero and can they get his autograph. That is way different. Just imagine how much he could make if he wasn't tainted? Or that he didnt' owe so much money?
tazzy
i agree with your post. but remember people request autographs from all kinds of people good and bad. it is about money.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II

tazzy
i agree with your post. but remember people request autographs from all kinds of people good and bad. it is about money.
martin II

I agree that it is about money. And, that was definately my point earlier that people get autographs from good and bad people. However, if he could rekindle his image or even reinvent it then it would be about MORE money. I don't think he will ever be able to rekindle his image. The only image he will ever have will be of a murderer who got away with it.

Karma

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by socaldiva


:beer: for karma :D

LOL!

I wondered if I was getting on everyone's nerves with that...lol



To Karma...

:beer:

Here! Here!

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II

fbg

bobs comments.

That fact destroyed Wagner's fantasy so he made up some ridiculous story that after Simpson entered his estate he went to the center of the driveway and stood and supposedly listened to see if he was somehow being seen or heard entering. Just more unrealistic fantasy from Wagner who would created his own explanations no matter how stupid, dumb, or unlikely so he could keep his failed scenario beliefs going. Sort of like you and your many excuses you use to deny the truth.

bobaugust


martin II



martin II, thanks for posting my words again. I have no idea what point you're trying to make in doing so, but I stand by what I said. It shows the ridiculous lengths Wagner went to trying to make his failed scenario work.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


Rons wounds.
from the me report the wounds that were the fatal wounds were administered first or almost first and exactly to the area of Rons body that would cause them to be fatal. Then there were what has been called the 'Testing wounds " to his cheek area to see if they would cause bleeding as a indication that he was dead or dying fast. this does not sound like these stabbing were accomplished by a amature that was attempting to kill somone with a knife for the first time.




martin II, It's obvious you have no expertise to know the difference between a professional killer and an amateur killer.

The fact is that the way Ron was killed and the so called testing wounds in the opinion of real experts is that is evidence that it was an amateur doing the killing, not a professional.

The killer had no idea what it took to kill someone. He just continued to stab and cut as many times as he could until Ron could no longer fight back, and then dropped him on the ground to bleed to death. Even then he wasn't sure he was dead so he returned to check.

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


I agree that it is about money. And, that was definately my point earlier that people get autographs from good and bad people. However, if he could rekindle his image or even reinvent it then it would be about MORE money. I don't think he will ever be able to rekindle his image. The only image he will ever have will be of a murderer who got away with it.

Karma

tazzy
i am sure if oj had not been black balled by the white business community and put on 'DO NOT USE' his income would be higher than it is now. at his current level he is at least equal to some small size company ceos in yearly income.

we all have to deal with the cards delt to us. it appears that oj is adjusting well.

i have noticed that the hip hop community does not seem to shun oj as much as the estsablished business community.

did you know that oj was partly responsible for forcing the NFL
to set up the retirement system for players. There was no program before he started the campaign to get it installed.

that may have been the greatest move of his career. don't you think?
martin II

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
did you know that oj was partly responsible for forcing the NFL
to set up the retirement system for players. There was no program before he started the campaign to get it installed.
:confused:

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust



martin II, It's obvious you have no expertise to know the difference between a professional killer and an amateur killer.

The fact is that the way Ron was killed and the so called testing wounds in the opinion of real experts is that is evidence that it was an amateur doing the killing, not a professional.

The killer had no idea what it took to kill someone. He just continued to stab and cut as many times as he could until Ron could no longer fight back, and then dropped him on the ground to bleed to death. Even then he wasn't sure he was dead so he returned to check.

bobaugust

bob

then you must dissagree with the me.

if what you say is true, WHY WERE THE FIRST WOUNDS THE FATAL WOUNDS.


PS
Does your web site have a song titled "ol black oj" if so what is the page.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* :confused:

fbg
did you figure out rons time yet???????
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg
did you figure out rons time yet???????
martin II I wasn't trying to figure out ron's time. where did that come from?

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
Does your web site have a song titled "ol black oj" if so what is the page. You can probably get a link to this via howard stern or parady's on the internet.

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust




martin II, thanks for posting my words again. I have no idea what point you're trying to make in doing so, but I stand by what I said. It shows the ridiculous lengths Wagner went to trying to make his failed scenario work.

bobaugust

bob
no offense.

fbg posted that NO ONE on this thread had ever made those kind of comments about wagners site.

i gave her one of your comments to help her understand as you make these kind of comments about wagner all the time except when you need to quote him to support your guesses.
martin II

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by fbgweezer

*Snip*

Then wouldn't Orenthal's footprints have been coming into the courtyard from the sidewalk instead of walking away from the bodies going toward the back gate?


And if he came in the back gate, how did he get in?


1st . NO! He only stepped in the blood when the passing motorist (IMO) yelled "hey hey hey" at the dog in the street.

2nd. OJ may have jumped the gate, causing the cut to his finger!

[weezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty



1st . NO! He only stepped in the blood when the passing motorist (IMO) yelled "hey hey hey" at the dog in the street.

2nd. OJ may have jumped the gate, causing the cut to his finger! :lol:

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
You mean when I realized Heidstra was across the street in an alley in front of Nicole's condo?

Bundy is in front of nicoles condo. it is a major through street NOT A ALLEY.
i see you have not understood yet.

there is nicoles condo on the west side of bundy.
there ia bundy that runs north and south
the house directly across from nicole is on the EAST side of bundy
behind this house is the east alley that is the spot where Heidstra stood when he said he heard hey hey hey at 10:40pm.

this is also the same 10:40 pm that kato and his girlfriend said KATO heard the bumps against his wall.

martin II

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by Beebee


Martin,

How long would it take for Ron to park and walk around the corner to the condo? Seconds?
Also, how did Nicole know he was there? Is it thought he rang a buzzer, or would she need to be watching for him?


What proof is there that Ron entered from the front gate?

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I wasn't trying to figure out ron's time. where did that come from?

i see you did not pay attention before jumping in.

when you calculate the distance you can then estimate the time to walk that distance.
is it really that difficult ??gees
martin II

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
i see you have not understood yet. Oh, I understood where the alley was -- I think you are the one confused. This is from your earlier post: "fbg

look at the same drawing that you viewed when you realized that hedstra was standing midway the alley behind nicoles condo
when he heard hey hey hey. it may have a scale on it. martin II"

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


i see you did not pay attention before jumping in.

when you calculate the distance you can then estimate the time to walk that distance.
is it really that difficult ??gees
martin II I'd have to be interested in it to do the exercise. If you and Beebee want to debate/discuss how long it took Ron to walk from his car -- go for it.

[weezer]

Originally posted by nettathirty



What proof is there that Ron entered from the front gate? How do you think he got there?

[martin II]

fbg

look at the house just above figure 1 on the map tazzy posted.

the owner of that house said she measured from nicols condo to her house and it was 75 feet. you can do the rest. i guess.

martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II
fbg

look at the house just above figure 1 on the map tazzy posted.

the owner of that house said she measured from nicols condo to her house and it was 75 feet. you can do the rest. i guess.

martin II You know martin, I disrespect your knowledge of this case so much that I do not trust anything you say. I will do my own research as to the distance and location of the car Ron was driving that night. When I have completed my research and have evidence to support my findings, I will post it. In the meantime, you need to back off.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy
i am sure if oj had not been black balled by the white business community and put on 'DO NOT USE' his income would be higher than it is now. at his current level he is at least equal to some small size company ceos in yearly income.

*snip*

that may have been the greatest move of his career. don't you think?
martin II

Martin,

He was black balled because he is a murderer. No one wants to hear his low class jokes regarding the murders. There isn't a market for him because he is a killer. It isn't a case of black balling. It is a case of murder. If the "white" businesses tried to put him on they would be bombarded by negative comments by the audience. We (the people who believe he is guilty) don't want anything to do with him.

The only reason he is as wealthy as he is is because of his very lucky career move as you mentioned. If it weren't for his pension he would be bankrupt. Lucky. Very lucky. And, I did know that he pushed for that in the NFL.

I don't know about adjusting well. I'm sure it kills his soul that he isn't as great in the eyes of the public as he once was. Adjusting well? He went to court over Road Rage and stealing cable. He's had the law called on him by his own child. He called the law on his girlfriend (who looks oddly like Nicole). I don't know if I would classify that as adjusting well.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty



What proof is there that Ron entered from the front gate?

Hi Netta,

The proof that he came in the front gate is that the things that he brought to Nicole were right there where he was found. The buzzer to let her know that he was there is at the front gate. It is the most likely scenerio.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I'd have to be interested in it to do the exercise. If you and Beebee want to debate/discuss how long it took Ron to walk from his car -- go for it.

fbg

bee bee and i are not debating the issue.
maby you realized that the estimates were good and just cain;'t admit you were wrong.

martin II
???

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Martin,

He was black balled because he is a murderer. No one wants to hear his low class jokes regarding the murders. There isn't a market for him because he is a killer. It isn't a case of black balling. It is a case of murder. If the "white" businesses tried to put him on they would be bombarded by negative comments by the audience. We (the people who believe he is guilty) don't want anything to do with him.

The only reason he is as wealthy as he is is because of his very lucky career move as you mentioned. If it weren't for his pension he would be bankrupt. Lucky. Very lucky. And, I did know that he pushed for that in the NFL.

I don't know about adjusting well. I'm sure it kills his soul that he isn't as great in the eyes of the public as he once was. Adjusting well? He went to court over Road Rage and stealing cable. He's had the law called on him by his own child. He called the law on his girlfriend (who looks oddly like Nicole). I don't know if I would classify that as adjusting well.



Tazzy

He was found " Not Guilty" in a Criminal Court, which means he's not guilty of anything CRIMINAL. Which includes, but is not limited to murder! He was found "Liable" in a Civil Trial. It's wasn't court, and the outcome wasn't "Guilt or Innocent"..

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

bee bee and i are not debating the issue.
maby you realized that the estimates were good and just cain;'t admit you were wrong.

martin II
??? Like I said, I'll do my own research. We know that you cannot and do not get things exactly right. There is a propensity by the NGs to twist facts to fit their theories. I never have a problem admitting when I'm wrong. Example: I thought Orenthal murdered Nicole in a fit of rage but then changed my mind.

[martin II]

tazzy

i understand you position.

the things you listed oj was involved in:

road rage; there may be 5,00 cases of road rage a day in the
u.s.a.
stealing cable: illegal cable boxes and cards is a big
business in the u.s.a.

daughter called police: she got pissed with him but seems to be
doing well now.
called police on his girlfriend: relationship squabble.

it is the american way i guess.
martinII

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Like I said, I'll do my own research. We know that you cannot and do not get things exactly right. There is a propensity by the NGs to twist facts to fit their theories. I never have a problem admitting when I'm wrong. Example: I thought Orenthal murdered Nicole in a fit of rage but then changed my mind.

look at the map tazzy posted. then you can trust your self.
martin II

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Netta,

The proof that he came in the front gate is that the things that he brought to Nicole were right there where he was found. The buzzer to let her know that he was there is at the front gate. It is the most likely scenerio.


Tazzy,

That proves he entered through the front gate, are you sure?

[tazzybaby]

Okay guys and girls, the forum is open and I was the first one to post. :tongue:

Please put your replies to me over there. And, I will be happy to reply. I am ready for our forum.

Woo Hoo!

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by fbgweezer

*Snipped*


Forensic evidence shows that Ron was murdered first and that after murdering Nicole, Orenthal went back to Ron's body.

Forensic evidence shows that Orenthal walked to the back gate.

1. This was a theory based on blood, found on the buttom of RG's shoe, but forensic didn't play a role in that theory!

2. The word forensic is being tossed around sort of loosely don't you think.. The bloody shoe print, not science tells us someone exited "stage left"..

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Tazzy,

That proves he entered through the front gate, are you sure?

Hi Netta,

It proves to me that he did. Can you give me another plausible scenerio?

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty




Tazzy

He was found " Not Guilty" in a Criminal Court, which means he's not guilty of anything CRIMINAL. Which includes, but is not limited to murder! He was found "Liable" in a Civil Trial. It's wasn't court, and the outcome wasn't "Guilt or Innocent"..

After he testified in the civil trial he was done. No one would touch him. He was proven to be a liar. Who wants to market a liar/murderer? There isn't a market there any longer. OJ did that to himself. It wasn't some big conspiracy to get him black balled.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II
tazzy

i understand you position.

the things you listed oj was involved in:

road rage; there may be 5,00 cases of road rage a day in the
u.s.a.
stealing cable: illegal cable boxes and cards is a big
business in the u.s.a.

daughter called police: she got pissed with him but seems to be
doing well now.
called police on his girlfriend: relationship squabble.

it is the american way i guess.
martinII

I don't think that is well adjusted. And, I also don't think it's normal. Does it happen? Yes. Does it happen so many times to one person? Hardly never.

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Netta,

It proves to me that he did. Can you give me another plausible scenerio?

Tazzy,

Mr August, believes Goldman arrived at Bundy or Dorothy were his borrowed car was found parked at or about 10:30p.. If this is true Goldman, Mandel and Aaronson should have meet up together on Dorothy and Bundy on the corner or near the car on Dorothy.. Mandel and Aaronson turned right from Bundy onto Dorothy at or about 10:30p. RGoldman should have been parking or walking pass them, if he came through the front gate!

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by tazzybaby

*Snipped*

After he testified in the civil trial he was done.




You mean he was done after the criminal trial or before the civil trial ever started?

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by socaldiva


As I recall Heistra held the unusual barking at 10:35. Mandel/Aaronson could have missed seeing Ron by a minute or two. I doubt the walkers were looking at their watches. They probable gave estimates. jmo I don't know why you think they need to have passed one another.


Socal

I don't think they passed each other at all. I believe Goldman could have easily entered Nicoles condo from the alley, and was dead when the walkers passed by the condo!

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* Oh, I understood where the alley was -- I think you are the one confused. This is from your earlier post: "fbg

look at the same drawing that you viewed when you realized that hedstra was standing midway the alley behind nicoles condo
when he heard hey hey hey. it may have a scale on it. martin II" \

fbg
you do try to be tricky

you argued for a full day that heidstra was standing in the alley behind nicoles condo. several posters tried to help you understand but you stood firm in YOUR reality.

for all i know you still believe he was in the west alley.
martin II

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Ok. I disagree. I think he entered on Bundy.


I have no proof to support my claim that Goldman didn't enter through the front gate!

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


After he testified in the civil trial he was done. No one would touch him. He was proven to be a liar. Who wants to market a liar/murderer? There isn't a market there any longer. OJ did that to himself. Its wasn't some big conspiracy to get him black balled.

i am sure oj would still like to be in demand but he also realizes that that is in the past.

when i see him in web pictures with friends, at hip hop events or golfing events he seem to be having a ball even though he understands that a large number of mostly whites are still angry that the system they support found him not guilty.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty


Tazzy,

Mr August, believes Goldman arrived at Bundy or Dorothy were his borrowed car was found parked at or about 10:30p.. If this is true Goldman, Mandel and Aaronson should have meet up together on Dorothy and Bundy on the corner or near the car on Dorothy.. Mandel and Aaronson turned right from Bundy onto Dorothy at or about 10:30p. RGoldman should have been parking or walking pass them, if he came through the front gate!

I don't believe he went that way. Everything that he had with him was right there. It is proof that he didn't make it to the house.

Does that prove Mr August wrong? No. However, I disagree. Everything that I see makes me believe that he arrived in the front.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty



You mean he was done after the criminal trial or before the civil trial ever started?

I mean when he opened his mouth in the civil trial. No one believed him at all after that. He was done. And done in by his own words and behavior.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

palinka (sp) lived down bundy south of dorothy st. about halfway through that block.

martin II


martin II, do you intentionally keep spelling Pilnak's name on purpose?

Or maybe this is some kind of Freudian slip on your part that since she testified to facts that contradict your beliefs you just aren't capable of spelling her name right not matter how many times you are corrected. Funny.

It's really not that hard of a name to spell. Let me help you out here.

P i l n a k --- P i l n a k --- P i l n a k--- P i l n a k--- P i l n a k

Got it?

bobaugust

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


I mean when he opened his mouth in the civil trial. No one believed him at all after that. He was done. And done in by his own words and behavior.


You have to admit, you along with the majority of America believed OJ was guilty at the outset of the Criminal Trial! OJ denied hitting Nicole or abusing he, and since many of you believed the photo evidence, along with the denial of the sculler (sp) photos, then he's lying and must be guilty!

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


i am sure oj would still like to be in demand but he also realizes that that is in the past.

when i see him in web pictures with friends, at hip hop events or golfing events he seem to be having a ball even though he understands that a large number of mostly whites are still angry that the system they support found him not guilty.
martin II

But, I bet he wouldn't look so happy if he was in a room with people who didn't support him. He is happy when he is the center of attention. He already knew how to turn on the charm. I wonder how he acts behind closed doors?

Well, besides fighting with his daughter, fighting with his girlfriend and stealing cable I'm not sure.

:D

The large number of whites are upset that the system let a murderer go free. As any group should be.

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


I don't believe he went that way. Everything that he had with him was right there. It is proof that he didn't make it to the house.



Everything he had with him, was found were he lay dead, " is NOT proof".. Sorry, I know alot of G's hate when a NG questions their authority. He was found dead with the items he had in his possesion, but that does not give any indication he entered through the front gate!

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty


Everything he had with him, was found were he lay dead, " is NOT proof".. Sorry, I know alot of G's hate when a NG questions their authority. He was found dead with the items he had in his possesion, but that does not give any indication he entered through the front gate!

Question my authority? Do I have authority? Woo Hoo! Go to your room you're grounded for questioning me!

Actually I believe it does give indication that he entered through the front gate. He was found at the bottom of the stairs and there was no indication that he was any where else but there. If you believe it is different then give me a plausible scenerio otherwise. Include anything that points to that direction.

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by Beebee


The ones OJ tried to get a court order to get. Supposidly they show a later call from Nicoles mom?

I don't know much about it, but did see some things online that OJ went to court to get them. He must have had a reason.


Beebee, there are no missing telephone records. The last time Juditha Brown ever spoke with Nicole was in 9:40 PM telephone call she made to her telling her that the Mezzaluna Restaurant had found and was holding Juditha's eyeglasses.

Simpson's attorneys were given the telephone records to check out and and during the trial they made and agreed to several stipulations that the telephone records were accurate and depicted the times telephone calls were made. They agreed that the last time Juditha Brown ever spoke with Nicole was at 9:40 PM.

Simpson didn't do anything about bringing this false issue to court. Other people unrelated to this case who had very limited knowledge of the actual evidence tried to bring a suit against the Browns and the telephone company concerning a fictitious telephone call after 11:00 PM. It was thrown out of court as a frivolous law suit.

http://www.bobaugust.com/gullible.htm

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally posted by bobaugust



Beebee, there are no missing telephone records. The last time Juditha Brown ever spoke with Nicole was in 9:40 PM telephone call she made to her telling her that the Mezzaluna Restaurant had found and was holding Juditha's eyeglasses.

Simpson's attorneys were given the telephone records to check out and and during the trial they made and agreed to several stipulations that the telephone records were accurate and depicted the times telephone calls were made. They agreed that the last time Juditha Brown ever spoke with Nicole was at 9:40 PM.

Simpson didn't do anything about bringing this false issue to court. Other people unrelated to this case who had very limited knowledge of the actual evidence tried to bring a suit against the Browns and the telephone company concerning a fictitious telephone call after 11:00 PM. It was thrown out of court as a frivolous law suit.

http://www.bobaugust.com/gullible.htm

bobaugust

bob

do you have a song on your web sight titled "old black oj"
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


But, I bet he wouldn't look so happy if he was in a room with people who didn't support him. He is happy when he is the center of attention. He already knew how to turn on the charm. I wonder how he acts behind closed doors?

Well, besides fighting with his daughter, fighting with his girlfriend and stealing cable I'm not sure.

:D

The large number of whites are upset that the system let a murderer go free. As any group should be.

then trash the jury system and use public opinion polls to determine verdicts.
marti II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


then trash the jury system and use public opinion polls to determine verdicts.
marti II

I don't have the authority to do that. Oh wait! I do (per Netta). Okay, down with the system! Public opinion polls start.....now!

Why are you and Netta getting mad? Prove me wrong. Not just with words or what you feel. Show me.

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


But, I bet he wouldn't look so happy if he was in a room with people who didn't support him. He is happy when he is the center of attention. He already knew how to turn on the charm. I wonder how he acts behind closed doors?

Well, besides fighting with his daughter, fighting with his girlfriend and stealing cable I'm not sure.

:D

The large number of whites are upset that the system let a murderer go free. As any group should be.

tazzy.

if oj were to go to any country in Africa he would be welcomed
and have business opportunbities that would dwart the Hertz and NBC gigs he had in ca.

"so the large number of white people"---- only matters if one decides to contiuue to play on their white stage which they control. but this is by no means the only stage one can play on.

martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty



You have to admit, you along with the majority of America believed OJ was guilty at the outset of the Criminal Trial! OJ denied hitting Nicole or abusing he, and since many of you believed the photo evidence, along with the denial of the sculler (sp) photos, then he's lying and must be guilty!

When I first heard the news, I thought wow that is sad. I did not immediately think OJ did it. I did not think he did it until the chase. Once the trial started I had doubts. I didn't he did it. Me and my sister had many a debate over it. I had doubt. But, I think most of my doubt came from not believing that he could do it. No way could a star like that kill two people in that manner. When he didn't testify in the criminal trial I considered guilt again. But, after he testified in the civil trial I had no doubt left. He did that to me. No one else. His demeanor also really looked bad.

Okay, I'm turning in for the night. I will be back tomorrow.

:seeya:

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


I don't have the authority to do that. Oh wait! I do (per Netta). Okay, down with the system! Public opinion polls start.....now!

Why are you and Netta getting mad? Prove me wrong. Not just with words or what you feel. Show me.

tazzy
i have never been mad at you. we dissagree but i think it is friendly. at least for my part
martin II

[goatgirl]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Thank you goatgirl for the reference. I did find the picture in Lange/Vannatter book, although I could only make out one coffee cup on the far counter. I believe that had Mr. Berman been in the house having coffee with Nicole just before the murders, we would have heard something about it -- don't you?

Hi Fbg,

you are welcome :)

You can clearly see one coffee mug, & if you look in front of the vase it looks like it there another mug?

I would assume the samething as you, that we would have heard something, but we havent heard anything at all??

not even a reason why the child left...!

I am thinking ....did OJ call @ 9pm & make threats
& Nicole was scared & thats why the child didnt stay the night???

either way I guess we really will never know.....

GoatGirl
:seeya:

[goatgirl]

Originally posted by Beebee


Hi GG,

Yeah, I'm starting to think the Mezzaluna wasn't high end like that either..... recently someone remarked to me that (LE) should have checked who was at the restaurant that night to check out the possibility that Nicole was being watched or followed. The remark was also made that you couldn't see inside Mezzaluna from the outside-- I don't know if that's true or not.

Thanks for the welcome.

Hi BB

according to Sheila Wards book "raging heart" someone was making obscene/harassing phone calls to Nicole, she did notify the police & they paid this person a visit ....

who it was I have no idea?

Nicole also suspected someone was trying to scare her,
she thought it "could" have been either OJ or Jason, I believe she told this to Ron Shipp.....

Goatgirl
:seeya:

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by martin II


bob
no offense.

fbg posted that NO ONE on this thread had ever made those kind of comments about wagners site.

i gave her one of your comments to help her understand as you make these kind of comments about wagner all the time except when you need to quote him to support your guesses.
martin II


martin II, my comments that you posted had nothing to do with what fbg said to you.

I've always said that Wagner did a great job researching photos and facts in this case. Where he was not credible were his own interpretations of what those photos and facts were trying to make things fit his failed scenario.

bobaugust

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by Beebee


Ron was parked about 50 feet away.

So in your speculation, from inside the condo, Nicole hears the gate unlocking... she must have pretty good ears, and just assumes it was Ron? Doesn't look, just goes out? And then sees OJ and he attacks her and Ron walks up?

To me it makes more sense that somebody was watching and hiding, and as soon as Nicole saw Goldman's car, she went out.

jmo

How would Nicole know if she saw Goldman's car or not? He didn't have a car. He borrowed the car. How would she know what it looked like?

JMO and MOO!!

[jotun]

Bob-What name have I ever
called you on lago????? Yes,as you know,I sure don't think Fuhrman killed Nicole.Almost as ridiculous as it being O.J. Neither had a motive. Especially with the help of Shipp-Faye- and especially Denise.[Tho there is an interesting book, 'The Frame Of Century' that has Shipp as the killer.Both O.J.'s sisters and A.C.believe that is true.][O.J.and alot of others including me think it was "the world of Faye Resnick.'] And have told them so on a few occasions. I feel almost as unwelcome as you there.

'Not Guilty' doesn't
mean INNOCENT, only to those who won't accept it. In America we are all presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.So if we are not proven guilty in that court. We are INNOCENT. Simple.That includes O.J. Judge Ito always said O.J. was presumed innocent.Mistaken right? Or maybe joking huh? But LIABLE does not mean guilty no matter how much you want it.

jotun

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by Beebee
Martin- check your pm's again.

:)

IIRC, you are not supposed to waste bandwidth with this nonsense. If you disagree, then I'll take it up with one of the Moderators.

:rolleyes:

JMO and MOO!!

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


How would Nicole know if she saw Goldman's car or not? He didn't have a car. He borrowed the car. How would she know what it looked like?

JMO and MOO!!


That might not have been the 1st time he borrowed that car.

He might have visited Bundy or he and Nicole were somewhere else and she saw him in the car!

[goatgirl]

Originally posted by bobaugust



bobaugust

*Snip for space**

I didn't find that song funny at all....:no:

GoatGirl

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by bobaugust

*Snipped*

Why? Because Simpson just kept on stabbing and cutting. Some of the wounds were fatal and some weren't. He had no idea what he was doing except continue stabbing and cutting until Goldman ceased to resist.

A professional killer would have only needed one stab to fatally kill a victim, not over thirty.

bobaugust


Mr August,

I know, your going to say there is NO proof of anyone other than OJ and the 2 victims at Bundy. Well, I'll say it for you!

There is NO proof RGoldman entered the front gate of Nicoles condo either, but many of us believe he did!

With that being said, it's quite possible at 10:15p there were multiple killers 1 unskilled and another skilled! The skilled killer attacked Nicole while the unskilled battled Ron Goldman, each killer with separate knifes would explain the different types of wounds on RGoldman!

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by martin II

<snipped>

if it is ever proven that a killer/s other than oj killed these people,
then we will all have to admit that all of ojs blood drops,cap,fibers and foot prints were in fact planted.

martin II

:lol: :rolleyes: :lol:

IMO, that's never going to happen. People in Hell will get a glass of ice water first!

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by bobaugust

*Snipped*

bobaugust


Mr August,

" The Real Bob August "

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by martin II

it does not require any special effort.
just look at a picture of dorothy and bundy and measure.
martin II

What does it matter for God's sake? 50 feet; 75 feet; 100 feet. Who the hell cares? Unless, of course, you are taking notes for your notebook!

JMO and MOO!!

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by nettathirty

Socal

I don't think they passed each other at all. I believe Goldman could have easily entered Nicoles condo from the alley, and was dead when the walkers passed by the condo!

Just how did Ron come through the back gate? Oh, yeah, he used his key. Silly me!

JMO and MOO!!

[alien]

Originally posted by Kate Sachel



In addition, her bed was unmade. As a woman, I can speak with a degree of certainty that most women don't leave a bed unmade when they are anticipating a romantic interlude.

Unless you are a lazy ol' cow like me who has serious issues with making her bed.

At least Mr Alien doesn't mind. ;)

[alien]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
He was obsessing over her clothing that night -- probably thought she was seeing someone -- maybe he was going to come to the front to make sure no one else was there?

IMHO, I think the obsessing over the clothing was that he didn't think it was appropriate for her and would she still dress like that when she was a Grandmother. Wasn't that part of the conversation OJ had with Kato (the man)?

I also don't think he came to the front gate to make sure no one was there. I think he came through the back gate with the intent of killing her. Ron was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. OJ probably had no idea he would show up.

[alien]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8
Geez! The OJ Simpson Murder Case 101 is now in session ~ ad nauseum!



JMO and MOO!!

Ah yes, but it gives those of us who are obsessed with the case to keep talking about it. Apparently Freshwater agrees and is willing to open a forum. :)

[alien]

Originally posted by Freshwater
Hi All,

Would you all like to keep this thread open as the new forum is created? Or would you prefer to completely move toteh new format. The new OJ forum should be up this afternoon. SO Far the threads are:

The Role of Race in Criminal Justice:


Would you like to add anything?

Please PM me. I'll be putting up the NEW forum late afternoon. You feedback is needed and appreciated.

FH2O

Hi, Freshwater. I tried to PM you, but got a message that your mail box is full.

Could we keep the current thread open in case someone wants to post on it.

I do have concerns that "The Role of Race in Criminal Justice" might bring out the ugliness that showed up on the thread that is currently open.

IIRC, the thread was almost closed down because of the nature of some of the posts.

[alien]

Originally posted by socaldiva


Why do you think he would have parked behind the condo & walked around the corner & up the front? I don't follow......

I don't think OJ ever walked to the front of the condo. I think he parked in the back and came around that way to the front. I guess I don't know how Nicole came to be outside.

[alien]

Originally posted by Beebee


Do you think he intended to kill her while his children were there-- risking that they could find their mother butchered?

With so many ways OJ could have harmed or even killed Nicole, I have always had a hard time believing he would pick the home where his kids were (was there ever any indication OJ did not love his kids?).

OJ might be arrogant, and at times a sob, but to slice up your childrens mother for them to see is beyond sick. I've never seen any indication he wasn't a good parent.

Good parent\bad parent....IMO, OJ didn't give a rip about the kids at that time. He was a very selfish person and all that mattered is that he did what he wanted to and D..N the consequences to anyone.

[alien]

Originally posted by tazzybaby
The latest article about OJ.....

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/entertainment/tittletattle/article_21221699.shtml

And, might I add......YUCK!

I am sick and tired of hearing him joke about the circumstances regarding Nicole's murder.

I second your "YUCK" and add and EWWW!! to that. As much as I would like to watch the tape to see if it is OJ, I just think that I would probably throw up. A nasty A.. old dude having a fling with younger women.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by alien


Ah yes, but it gives those of us who are obsessed with the case to keep talking about it. Apparently Freshwater agrees and is willing to open a forum. :)

I don't mind people talking about the OJ case. What I do mind is supposed "newbies" coming on the Board and then expect everyone to bring them up-to-date on the OJ case. They don't want to read Posts; they don't want to do any research. They just want everything handed to them on a silver platter. And they always seem to be NG's. Thus, The OJ Simpson Murder Case 101 is now in session ~ ad nauseum!

Unfortunately, I was brought up on the original Scott Peterson Board. You either did things for yourself or you ended up running for your life!

JMO and MOO!!

[alien]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Martin,

I haven't seen the video. I did see the front page of badoj.com. But, I didn't verify if I thought it was him or not.

But, I will say this. I know that Yale Galanter would defend him until his dying breath. That is what he is paid to do. They are also friends. So, just because a lawyer says that it is not him does not mean it's true.

However, I do find it odd that all of a sudden all this stuff starts coming out about OJ. I believe that this is completely planned. I believe that he is slowly trying to get his "life" back. I believe that he had a hand in when the "juiced" show came out and the "porn" video came out. There have been several interviews recently. He is slowly trying to make a come back. But, it won't be because he was such a great athlete. It will be because he is infamous for murder. Why such interest in him? He got away with murder. Why do people still want his autograph? Aside from the FEW hardcore Football fans/collectors, it is only because of phsyco curiosity. He got away with murder. I believe there will always be people out there who try and stand up for Nicole and Ron. So, I believe that he will never get his "life" back.

tazzy, what an awesome quote. I think you just said what a lot of us believe.

[alien]

Originally posted by nettathirty




Tazzy

He was found " Not Guilty" in a Criminal Court, which means he's not guilty of anything CRIMINAL. Which includes, but is not limited to murder! He was found "Liable" in a Civil Trial. It's wasn't court, and the outcome wasn't "Guilt or Innocent"..

But you know what netta, the court of public opinion is what matters now. OJ is a has been. Maybe he was found in your words "Not Guilty" in a criminal court, but he was found "Liable" in the civil trial. A civil trial is just as important as a crimial trial IMO. It is kind of like apples and oranges. OJ's life will never be the same and I really hope that something comes up some day to prove his guilt beyond any reasonable doubt.

I have read about the "white community"....what about the "black community"? Do they embrace him and try to give him opportunities to help him out? Just courious.

[alien]

Originally posted by socaldiva



But....I think there's a differnce between being married & a new romance ;)

I don't know Socal......Mr Alien and I try to keep every day as a new romance. When my Daughter was married we had a "Just Married" sign in our house. It is still up there after 3 years. We still thing of ourselves at "just married" and having a new romance. ;)

I haven't chatted to you in a while. I am feeling kind of blue because the date of my Daughter leaving for Maryland is only 5 weeks away. Mom\Grandma is feeling kind of sad.

[alien]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


I don't mind people talking about the OJ case. What I do mind is supposed "newbies" coming on the Board and then expect everyone to bring them up-to-date on the OJ case. They don't want to read Posts; they don't want to do any research. They just want everything handed to them on a silver platter. And they always seem to be NG's. Thus, The OJ Simpson Murder Case 101 is now in session ~ ad nauseum!



JMO and MOO!!

You are correct...I want to ask them if they read the entire thread before they jump in with comments. However, some of the "oldies" try the same thing. I won't mention any names. ;)

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by nettathirty


Tazzy,

Mr August, believes Goldman arrived at Bundy or Dorothy were his borrowed car was found parked at or about 10:30p.. If this is true Goldman, Mandel and Aaronson should have meet up together on Dorothy and Bundy on the corner or near the car on Dorothy.. Mandel and Aaronson turned right from Bundy onto Dorothy at or about 10:30p. RGoldman should have been parking or walking pass them, if he came through the front gate!


nettathirty, no that's not what I believe.

Mandel and Aaronson walked by the front of Nicole's condo just before 10:30.

Heidstra heard when Ron arrived at Bundy and yelled at Simpson. That was about 10:40 about ten minutes later.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by nettathirty



You have to admit, you along with the majority of America believed OJ was guilty at the outset of the Criminal Trial! OJ denied hitting Nicole or abusing he, and since many of you believed the photo evidence, along with the denial of the sculler (sp) photos, then he's lying and must be guilty!


nettathirty, no not everyone believed Simpson guilty at the start of the criminal trial. As the physical evidence, primarily the blood evidence, against Simpson became known it was obvious that he was guilty.

Of course reasonable people believe the photo evidence presented in the civil trial. Photographs taken by two different photographers at the same football game, one photo published seven months before the murders, as well as an unedited side line television video, all prove Simpson lied about what he was wearing that day.

There wasn't one single shred of evidence ever presented by Simpson's defense that contradicted the reality of the photographic evidence.

Simpson was also impeached by telephone records, and a defense doctors notes as well as contradicted by many other witnesses including defense witnesses. Simpson was proved to be a liar and a killer to a certainty.

bobaugust

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by alien


You are correct...I want to ask them if they read the entire thread before they jump in with comments. However, some of the "oldies" try the same thing. I won't mention any names. ;)

The OJ Board has been going on for years. You would never see a newbie "G" come on the Threads and not be prepared. They are always well versed, informative and have read everything and anything regarding the OJ Simpson case. Moreover, they then become an asset to the OJ Board through their knowledge and expertise.

Why some of our illustrious "G's" feel the need to coddle and take these NG's and newbie NG's by the hand and walk them through the OJ case from Day 1 is beyond me. They say it is because they want to keep the record straight. However, it all ends up being repeated and repeated ~ ad nauseum! It's becoming "the same sh*t, just a different day" and it is getting tiresome.

And, don't get me started on the wasted bandwidth that could be used for more informative and important things than the constant holding of the NG's and newbie NG's hands!

JMO and MOO!!

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by jotun
Bob-What name have I ever
called you on lago????? Yes,as you know,I sure don't think Fuhrman killed Nicole.Almost as ridiculous as it being O.J. Neither had a motive. Especially with the help of Shipp-Faye- and especially Denise.[Tho there is an interesting book, 'The Frame Of Century' that has Shipp as the killer.Both O.J.'s sisters and A.C.believe that is true.][O.J.and alot of others including me think it was "the world of Faye Resnick.'] And have told them so on a few occasions. I feel almost as unwelcome as you there.

'Not Guilty' doesn't
mean INNOCENT, only to those who won't accept it. In America we are all presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.So if we are not proven guilty in that court. We are INNOCENT. Simple.That includes O.J. Judge Ito always said O.J. was presumed innocent.Mistaken right? Or maybe joking huh? But LIABLE does not mean guilty no matter how much you want it.

jotun



jotun, I have no intention of repeating what you've posted in the past on IAGO. Go reread your April postings there to answer your question. This forum is not the place to discuss this.

There is no evidence that anyone else but Simpson killed both Ron and Nicole. There is not one single piece of legitimated evidence that eliminates Simpson form being the killer. Every claim that someone else was the killer fails when confronted with the real facts and evidence in this case.

Neil Schulman's The Frame of the Century is filled with false and misinformation and fails just as every "other killer" theory fails. It's pure bull crap that Ron Ship was the real killer. The same kind of bull crap as the theory that Marcus Allen was the real killer, or Jason Simpson was the real killer, or Mark Fuhrman was the real killer, or Kato Kaelin was the real killer, or professional killers were the real killers.

Only uninformed gullible people who are in denial of the truth of these murders will fall for these bull crap false theories.

Your reasoning about someone who is not proven guilty means they are innocent is outright wrong. A verdict of not guilty does not mean innocent, only unproved beyond a reasonable doubt and in this case to a criminal trial jury who were predisposed and willing to use any excuse to ignore the evidence that proved Simpson guilty.

In the civil trial Simpson was proved to be a liar and a killer. The civil trial jury unanimously found that Simpson willfully and wrongly caused the death and committed battery against Ronald Goldman and Nicole Brown.

Damages were awarded against Simpson in favor of the plaintiffs because it was proved Simpson killed both Ron and Nicole no matter how much you want to play dumb and deny it.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Mr August,

I know, your going to say there is NO proof of anyone other than OJ and the 2 victims at Bundy. Well, I'll say it for you!

There is NO proof RGoldman entered the front gate of Nicoles condo either, but many of us believe he did!

With that being said, it's quite possible at 10:15p there were multiple killers 1 unskilled and another skilled! The skilled killer attacked Nicole while the unskilled battled Ron Goldman, each killer with separate knifes would explain the different types of wounds on RGoldman!



nettathirty, I sure hope you're only joking again because that's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted here.

Your analogy is wrong and ridiculous. There is plenty of evidence that Ron was found dead, there is no evidence that there were multiple killers or any other killer except Simpson.

"The skilled killer attacked Nicole while the unskilled battled Ron Goldman, each killer with separate knifes" is I'm sorry to say not even worth responding to. The scenario that aliens from outer space were the real killers is as legitimate and supported as this fantasy you just offered.

bobaugust

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy
i have never been mad at you. we dissagree but i think it is friendly. at least for my part
martin II

Okay, good. I agree that it's a friendly disagree.

;)

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by nettathirty



*snip*

There is NO proof RGoldman entered the front gate of Nicoles condo either, but many of us believe he did!

With that being said, it's quite possible at 10:15p there were multiple killers 1 unskilled and another skilled! The skilled killer attacked Nicole while the unskilled battled Ron Goldman, each killer with separate knifes would explain the different types of wounds on RGoldman!

Hi Netta,

Okay, you drug me into this yesterday so I am going to respond...

But, there is proof that he entered the front gate. Or, at the very least, it would be strong indication. There is nothing to indicate that he came in the back. So, the is reason that many of us believe he came in the front gate.

There is only indication of three people at the scene. And, two of those people were the victims. There just isn't anything to show me that there was another killer there.

:shrug:

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by jotun
*snip*


'Not Guilty' doesn't
mean INNOCENT, only to those who won't accept it. In America we are all presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.So if we are not proven guilty in that court. We are INNOCENT. Simple.That includes O.J. Judge Ito always said O.J. was presumed innocent.Mistaken right? Or maybe joking huh? But LIABLE does not mean guilty no matter how much you want it.

jotun

Hi Jotun,

We are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. None of us are in a court of law. I agree that Not Guilty does not mean innocent. That's only the judgement received by a panel of jurors. That could mean that they only had doubt. It happens every day. If it means innocent then why don't they call it innocent? I believe there was enough to convict OJ in the criminal trial. But, he got off because the Defense was much better at the game. They threw all kinds of wild scenerios out there (that didn't even have any kind of back up) just to place doubt in the publics mind.

Liable means that he caused the deaths. That's the same thing as saying that he did it.

:)

[martin II]

bob

will you direct me to the song on your web site where the song 'OL BLACK OJ" can be found?

martin II

[martin II]

tazzy

i guess i need to read the basis for the different standards of proof in criminal and civil trials.
but i was wondering why not have the same requirements of proof.

i guess depriving one of his freedom (jail) is viewed as a more serious action than making one pay money to someone . so the standard (cival trial)) of proof for money is much less.

meaning that if i accuse someone of muder and cannot prove it beyond a doubt, i can then say i think he did it (civil)and get money.

martin II

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by nettathirty
2. The word forensic is being tossed around sort of loosely don't you think.. The bloody shoe print, not science tells us someone exited "stage left".. I used the word 'forensic' as its definition describes: "Relating to the use of science or technology in the investigation and establishment of facts or evidence in a court of law: a forensic laboratory."

[weezer]

Originally posted by alien


Unless you are a lazy ol' cow like me who has serious issues with making her bed.

At least Mr Alien doesn't mind. ;) Lange/Vannatter book describes Nicole's bed as being 'rumpled' as if 'someone had rested on top of the bedspread.' Most women will understand the difference.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II
tazzy

i guess i need to read the basis for the different standards of proof in criminal and civil trials.
but i was wondering why not have the same requirements of proof.

i guess depriving one of his freedom (jail) is viewed as a more serious action than making one pay money to someone . so the standard (cival trial)) of proof for money is much less.

meaning that if i accuse someone of muder and cannot prove it beyond a doubt, i can then say i think he did it (civil)and get money.

martin II

Hi Martin,

Yes, I believe that a criminal trial is viewed as more serious and therefore held to a higher standard of proof. However, I do not believe that anyone can just say that they think he did it and get money in a civil trial. There has to be proof. You say that like it's just an accusation that always wins. That's not true.

In my opinion, Simpson is really lucky that the things didn't come in the criminal trial that came in the civil trial. Like his testimony, the abuse witnesses and her diary. He lucked out. He could hide behind his attorneys and proclaim his innocence.

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II
bob

will you direct me to the song on your web site where the song 'OL BLACK OJ" can be found?

martin II He has posted the link for you twice. What is your problem?

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
He has posted the link for you twice. What is your problem?

IMO, he's baiting him to try and see if Bob slips up or contradicts himself. He writes it in his Notebook and then uses it against Bob sometime down the line, if need be. I can only hope that Bob doesn't take the bait and ignores him.

[bandit's mom]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tazzybaby
[B]

Martin,

He was black balled because he is a murderer. No one wants to hear his low class jokes regarding the murders. There isn't a market for him because he is a killer. It isn't a case of black balling. It is a case of murder. If the "white" businesses tried to put him on they would be bombarded by negative comments by the audience. We (the people who believe he is guilty) don't want anything to do with him.

A few years ago, we had our office Christmas Paty at
a restaurant in Newport Beach. OJ had been there
the night before. Our waitress was telling us about it
and about how many complaints they got. Other customers
wanting him thrown out, which the restaurant staff was,
of course, afraid to do because of potential litigation.
She said a number of customers who hadn't ordered yet,
simply left and one couple who had already ordered, sent
the food back and refused to pay, saying that they couldn't
eat next to a murderer. She said OJ definitely heard that,
and several other comments although he tried to
act like he hadn't. So, yeah I'd say any business that tried
to use him in any way would have to be insane.

[bandit's mom]

Originally posted by nettathirty




Tazzy

He was found " Not Guilty" in a Criminal Court, which means he's not guilty of anything CRIMINAL. Which includes, but is not limited to murder! He was found "Liable" in a Civil Trial. It's wasn't court, and the outcome wasn't "Guilt or Innocent"..


Did you think we aren't aware of the verdict? The thing is,
most Americans think the jury was made up of idiots who
found all that DNA just waaaay to confusing and wanted
to prove a point by letting a Black murderer walk for
killing 2 white people. So, no one actually cares about the
verdict. This is still a free country, more or less. We are
still free to voice our opinions on most subjects, OJ included.

[martin II]

Originally posted by nettathirty



Mr August,

" The Real Bob August "

netta

i could not get the OLD BLACK OJ song on bobs web site to play.
i have dsl not cable.

will try again later.

martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Martin,

Yes, I believe that a criminal trial is viewed as more serious and therefore held to a higher standard of proof. However, I do not believe that anyone can just say that they think he did it and get money in a civil trial. There has to be proof. You say that like it's just an accusation that always wins. That's not true.

In my opinion, Simpson is really lucky that the things didn't come in the criminal trial that came in the civil trial. Like his testimony, the abuse witnesses and her diary. He lucked out. He could hide behind his attorneys and proclaim his innocence.

the u.s. constitution.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by bandit's mom
[QUOTE]Originally posted by tazzybaby
[B]

Martin,

He was black balled because he is a murderer. No one wants to hear his low class jokes regarding the murders. There isn't a market for him because he is a killer. It isn't a case of black balling. It is a case of murder. If the "white" businesses tried to put him on they would be bombarded by negative comments by the audience. We (the people who believe he is guilty) don't want anything to do with him.

A few years ago, we had our office Christmas Paty at
a restaurant in Newport Beach. OJ had been there
the night before. Our waitress was telling us about it
and about how many complaints they got. Other customers
wanting him thrown out, which the restaurant staff was,
of course, afraid to do because of potential litigation.
She said a number of customers who hadn't ordered yet,
simply left and one couple who had already ordered, sent
the food back and refused to pay, saying that they couldn't
eat next to a murderer. She said OJ definitely heard that,
and several other comments although he tried to
act like he hadn't. So, yeah I'd say any business that tried
to use him in any way would have to be insane.

bandit
a group of people in a resturant were angry. SO WHAT.

[alien]

Originally posted by martin II


bandit
a group of people in a resturant were angry. SO WHAT.

I think it is indicative of how the majority of people feel about him. Maybe it was just a group of people in a restaurant, but IMO if a company tried to use OJ, there would be some boycotting of their goods.

[jotun]

Netta-Right you are 'the REAL Bob August' That 'OLd BLACK O.J.' song was even worse than I remembered.

Netta, Martin, Beebee, maybe Goatgirl, and me Jotun. Maybe IF we ALL quit posting back to him.He would be left to "CORRECT"
himself.
jotun

[alien]

Originally posted by jotun
Netta-Right you are 'the REAL Bob August' That 'OLd BLACK O.J.' song was even worse than I remembered.

Netta, Martin, Beebee, maybe Goatgirl, and me Jotun. Maybe IF we ALL quit posting back to him.He would be left to "CORRECT"
himself.
jotun

I hope the first part of your quote isn't about race. I think the majority of us are trying to get away from that subject because it brings up hateful comments.

Do you really think that ya'll can quit posting to bobaugust. I think some people are just trying to bait him. IMO, when bobaugust does make a mistake he is more than willing to correct it and admit that he was wrong. However, because he has done a lot of research, he isn't wrong very often.

[goatgirl]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jotun
[B]Netta-Right you are 'the REAL Bob August' That 'OLd BLACK O.J.' song was even worse than I remembered.

*snip 4 space*

Hi Jotun

I am sure most would agree the song in bad taste!

apparently its from the Howard Stern radio show, so I think that sums it up :)

:beer:

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by bandit's mom
[QUOTE

A few years ago, we had our office Christmas Paty at
a restaurant in Newport Beach. OJ had been there
the night before. Our waitress was telling us about it
and about how many complaints they got. Other customers
wanting him thrown out, which the restaurant staff was,
of course, afraid to do because of potential litigation.
She said a number of customers who hadn't ordered yet,
simply left and one couple who had already ordered, sent
the food back and refused to pay, saying that they couldn't
eat next to a murderer. She said OJ definitely heard that,
and several other comments although he tried to
act like he hadn't. So, yeah I'd say any business that tried
to use him in any way would have to be insane.

Hi Bandit's mom,

That's exactly what I'm talking about. There is no way they would use him. Too many people believe he is a murderer. And, I'm sure if he told the story of the restaurant he would say only that the people there were nice to him and glad to see him.

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


bandit
a group of people in a resturant were angry. SO WHAT.

Hi Martin,

This is an example of why anyone who tried to use him in any way would be idiots. I don't care if it's white business or any other business they would be boycotted.

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Martin,

This is an example of why anyone who tried to use him in any way would be idiots. I don't care if it's white business or any other business they would be boycotted.

tazzy

you are correct. the power structure in America would do everything in their power to keep him from making a living as a pitch man in THIS market. which is why i suggested that oj should consider working in a market not influenced by white amercian consumer groups where he would be welcomed.

The continent of africa would welcome him, he could make big money there and no american protest groups could do anything about it. IMO
MARTIN II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy

you are correct. the power structure in America would do everything in their power to keep him from making a living as a pitch man in THIS market. which is why i suggested that oj should consider working in a market not influenced by white amercian consumer groups where he would be welcomed.

The continent of africa would welcome him, he could make big money there and no american protest groups could do anything about it. IMO
MARTIN II The 'power structure'? In order to represent a company/product, you have to be crediable and a figure that people trust and/or admire. Orenthal can't be any of those things -- he was proven to be a murderer. You may be right, the folks in africa may not care about his character. Maybe he should try to be a 'pitch' man over there. BTW, what products do you think he could 'pitch' over there?

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy

you are correct. the power structure in America would do everything in their power to keep him from making a living as a pitch man in THIS market. which is why i suggested that oj should consider working in a market not influenced by white amercian consumer groups where he would be welcomed.

The continent of africa would welcome him, he could make big money there and no american protest groups could do anything about it. IMO
MARTIN II

White America is not the one's who are keeping OJ from making money. America is. Where are all the black people when OJ makes an appearance? Why aren't they all standing up and welcoming him? Why isn't he some type of commentator/spokesman for BET? White America doesn't control BET. Because the black community doesn't take him serious either. The fight wasn't because of OJ. The fight was because of years of injustice. The fight was because of Rodney King. *Insert Black Power Salute*

And, why do you say the continent of Africa? Because he's black? Are you saying that black people don't care what a person has done they will welcome them? They can murder and the black community won't care? I don't believe that for one minute. White America don't care what color you are if you are a murderer. They wouldn't want a spokesperson or celebrity who was accused of murder. Do you think that Robert Blake could ever have any kind of career again? No! He was found not guilty. He was also found liable in the civil trial. So why would the black community welcome an accused murderer but white america won't?

[martin II]

tazzy

Why are you talking about BET.

Bob Johnson sold BET to Viacon (sp) almost two years ago for over 1 billion usd. If you watch BET you would know that.

Contrary to what some people here think, not everyone in some other countries feel the need to follow americas lead in everything and the sentiment in africa about that civil trial verdict that oj was liable does not seem to be the same as it is here.

our system where a person can be found NOT GUILTY of a crime
and then be tried again for the same charge is OUR system not the system in some other counrries.

so it would, imo, be unreasonable for anyone to expect people in all other countries to see this issue the same as some here do.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
The 'power structure'? In order to represent a company/product, you have to be crediable and a figure that people trust and/or admire. Orenthal can't be any of those things -- he was proven to be a murderer. You may be right, the folks in africa may not care about his character. Maybe he should try to be a 'pitch' man over there. BTW, what products do you think he could 'pitch' over there?

fbg

It is not that africans don;t care about character at all, it is just that the u.s. system of trying a person twice for the same charge is not in their culture.

He could pitch the same type produts he pitched here but not the same brand name and not owned by American companies.

Example; orange and pinapple juice are hugh sellers in africa. Grown, manufactured and sold at retail. Sports is big in Africa. Auto dearlerships are very big. BMW, Mercedes, R.R., Ford.volvo etc
The same type products he pitched here and others.
All locally owned by africans.
martin II

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II
tazzy

Why are you talking about BET.

Bob Johnson sold BET to Viacon (sp) almost two years ago for over 1 billion usd. If you watch BET you would know that.

*snip*

martin II

Hi Martin,

I know that. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that White America doesn't control what is shown on BET. If they started showing white shows on BET what do you think would happen? In other words, the likes/dislikes of the black community is what controls it.

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
Bob Johnson sold BET to Viacon (sp) almost two years ago for over 1 billion usd. If you watch BET you would know that.
I watch CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, Lifetime, Discovery, HGTV, FOX, etc., and I coulnd't tell you who owns any of them.

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

It is not that africans don;t care about character at all, it is just that the u.s. system of trying a person twice for the same charge is not in their culture.

He could pitch the same type produts he pitched here but not the same brand name and not owned by American companies.

Example; orange and pinapple juice are hugh sellers in africa. Grown, manufactured and sold at retail. Sports is big in Africa. Auto dearlerships are very big. BMW, Mercedes, R.R., Ford.volvo etc
The same type products he pitched here and others.
All locally owned by africans.
martin II I wasn't insinuating that africans don't care about character. The American system does not try a person twice for the same charge. The American justice system allows for criminal and civil charges.

LOL -- I can't even imagine Orenthal in Africa on vacation -- much less 'pitching' products. Aren't there black companies here in the United States that will hire him?

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Martin,

I know that. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that White America doesn't control what is shown on BET. If they started showing white shows on BET what do you think would happen? In other words, the likes/dislikes of the black community is what controls it.

tazzy

viacon dictates to bet the program format according to the market they are trying to reach and keep.

the decision to use oj or not would be made by ad agencies the company selling the product and viacom and we already what that decision would be or is.

the reason oj did that BET interview is because he may have thought that he could get a fair shake than on fox etc.

we don't know what the BET consumers response would be to oj because he has never pitched any product there.

that is why i say forget about this american system. go some place where you are welcome and where you cannot be controlled
by this american mentality or anger.

martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy

viacon dictates to bet the program format according to the market they are trying to reach and keep.

the decision to use oj or not would be made by ad agencies the company selling the product and viacom and we already what that decision would be or is.

the reason oj did that BET interview is because he may have thought that he could get a fair shake than on fox etc.

we don't know what the BET consumers response would be to oj because he has never pitched any product there.

that is why i say forget about this american system. go some place where you are welcome and where you cannot be controlled
by this american mentality or anger.

martin II Of course I don't know how many blonde, white women he'll find over there but he should at least try, don't you think?

If, on the other hand, he decides that Africa is too far then I believe the black community and the NGs need to stand up for Orenthal and support him in his career. After all, how can a man live on $25K a month? AND, the investigators who know and have proof that he was not the murderer of Nicole and Ron should be forced by the black community and the NGs into revealing all of the information to Orenthal so he can clear his name.

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
the reason oj did that BET interview is because he may have thought that he could get a fair shake than on fox etc.
So, did he get a fair shake from BET?

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
I wasn't insinuating that africans don't care about character. The American system does not try a person twice for the same charge. The American justice system allows for criminal and civil charges.

LOL -- I can't even imagine Orenthal in Africa on vacation -- much less 'pitching' products. Aren't there black companies here in the United States that will hire him?

fbg
these are your words.
You may be right, the folks in africa may not care about his character

now.
Your experiences may not allow you to see oj as a pitch man in africa but i can see him on thousands of billboards and tv, sipping a cool cup of Orange Juice. or advertising football gear. in several countries.

what tv station in America would run a ad from a black or white company with oj in it??? CNN, NBC.ABC,CBS, your local tv station.
which one?
martin II

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
what tv station in America would run a ad from a black or white company with oj in it??? CNN, NBC.ABC,CBS, your local tv station.which one? Certainly none that I would support -- the company that hired him or the station that ran it.

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
Of course I don't know how many blonde, white women he'll find over there but he should at least try, don't you think?

If, on the other hand, he decides that Africa is too far then I believe the black community and the NGs need to stand up for Orenthal and support him in his career. After all, how can a man live on $25K a month? AND, the investigators who know and have proof that he was not the murderer of Nicole and Ron should be forced by the black community and the NGs into revealing all of the information to Orenthal so he can clear his name.


He could take the blonds with him or select from those that are there.

you are now taking the conversation down to pre high school level. so :seeya:
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* Certainly none that I would support -- the company that hired him or the station that ran it.

fbg

so why did you ask the quesiton if you already had the answer?
martin II

[weezer]

*Snip* Originally posted by martin II
fbg
these are your words.
You may be right, the folks in africa may not care about his character Always twisting people's words. Re-read what I said and what you re-posted: "You may be right"

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


fbg

so why did you ask the quesiton if you already had the answer?
martin II LOL -- you're the one that asked the question -- remember? LOL

"Originally posted by martin II
what tv station in America would run a ad from a black or white company with oj in it??? CNN, NBC.ABC,CBS, your local tv station.which one?"

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Martin,

I know that. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that White America doesn't control what is shown on BET. If they started showing white shows on BET what do you think would happen? In other words, the likes/dislikes of the black community is what controls it.

Tazzy

viacon is a major american white owned company, that owns BET they would not allow a ad using oj to be run on BET.
martin II

[martin II]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
LOL -- you're the one that asked the question -- remember? LOL

"Originally posted by martin II
what tv station in America would run a ad from a black or white company with oj in it??? CNN, NBC.ABC,CBS, your local tv station.which one?"
fbg
your post
LOL -- I can't even imagine Orenthal in Africa on vacation -- much less 'pitching' products. Aren't there black companies here in the United States that will hire him

[martin II]

fbg

thanks for your opinions.
i am moving on now.

martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


Tazzy

viacon is a major american white owned company, that owns BET they would not allow a ad using oj to be run on BET.
martin II Of course they would if their target audience was interested.

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by martin II


Tazzy

viacon is a major american white owned company, that owns BET they would not allow a ad using oj to be run on BET.
martin II

LOL,

They have, it was an AD for the BET music awards a few years back!

[martin II]

Originally posted by nettathirty


LOL,

They have, it was an AD for the BET music awards a few years back!

thanks netta

this must have been when Bob Johnson still owned it. right?

so did the u.s. blow up into small pieces??
martin II

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by martin II


thanks netta

this must have been when Bob Johnson still owned it. right?

so did the u.s. blow up into small pieces??
martin II


LOL,

I believe the world remained on it's axes! However the majority of TV viewers in the US are not tuned into BET..

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by socaldiva


But, why do you suppose he hasn't appeared again?


OJ wasn't a household name prior to the murders. You can't remember the last time those Hertz commericals he appeared in were aired. Pete Rose wasn't accused of killing anyone, however the scandal ruined his product endorsement potential forever!

[nettathirty]

Originally posted by socaldiva

I think OJ was a household name prior to the murders. Even I knew him from his commericals & I never watch sports.

I was curious as to why you thought he wasn't asked back by BET considering many think that 70% of the black community thinks he didn't commit the murders.


I don't think it had anything to do with the murders. With all the award shows, they never use the same person over and over again.. The decision not to use OJ (imo) probably had nothing to do with imaging, and more to do with who's the next familiar name or popular person!

[martin II]

OJ did not MC the BET MUSIC AWARDS. he was used in a ad to pull viewers for that particular show. there is no reason to use the same person in a ad every year. imo
martin II

[bandit's mom]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
*Snip* Certainly none that I would support -- the company that hired him or the station that ran it.

Any company or network that used OJ as a pitchman, would
be inundated with protests. Even 12 years after he committed
the murders, too many people have not forgotten.

[bandit's mom]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bobaugust
[B]


nettathirty, no not everyone believed Simpson guilty at the start of the criminal trial. As the physical evidence, primarily the blood evidence, against Simpson became known it was obvious that he was guilty.

My husband didn't believe he was guilty at the start of
the trial. Of course, I always thought that was because
he was such a huge Football fan, he just had trouble believing
that the OJ he was used to seeing, the agreeable, funny
commentator and pitchman, could do what he did.
However, since my husband isn't a moron, he couldn't
discount all the evidence, particularly the DNA, and came around.

[weezer]

Originally posted by socaldiva


I agree & I don't think it matters relative to raze or geography. I doubt much could have been done to rehabilitate his reputation but the road rage, stealing cable, domestic abuse with girlfriend and daughter haven't helped. And now with the ridiculous show "Juiced" and the porn video out -- geez.

[jotun]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fbgweezer
[B] but the road rage, stealing cable, domestic abuse with girlfriend and daughter haven't helped.
Re road-rage-Only O.J.could be chased down with horn and lights & yelling for 'blowing' a stop sign by a motorist. Then HE be charged with road-rage. At the trial it was obvious the motorist was LYING when he was talking about how his small son liked to pull his glasses off. He had a tiny scratch on his temple. 2 murder trial d.a.'s tried the case and asked for a 16 year prison sentence for O.J., but the jury couldn't be told that fact.O.J. was the ONLY defence witness!!!
O.J.was found NOT GUILTY.

O.J.commited NO domestic
abuse of daughter or girlfriend,nor was he even accused of any. His daughter called 911 to complain that he didn't love her.His girlfriend was seen by security at a hotel hitting O.J.She was asked to leave and banned. Another time a friend called 911 because Chirsty was hitting O.J., pulled his pendant off and was stealing.The friend also said she hit?
him.

As for stealing cable. He wasn't given his day in court.This was decided in champers by a judge over the objection of his lawyer.Is appealing.
jotun

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by socaldiva
It seems no matter what Orenthal does, there will always be a handful of people that make excuses & deny eveything. WOW!

Yeah, it's just amazing isn't it?

[tazzybaby]

Originally posted by martin II


Tazzy

viacon is a major american white owned company, that owns BET they would not allow a ad using oj to be run on BET.
martin II

Hi Martin,

I think you're missing my point. What does that major american white owned company want? Money! Do they care who makes them that money? No. If putting OJ on BET made them money they wouldn't care who complained. If the viewing audience (black, white, yellow, green) liked what they put on there then it makes them money. I'm sure they'd like the controversial coverage it would cause. How many media outlets made money on covering the OJ story? Tons. If they thought they could still make money they would.

This is not some big huge conspiracy by the white people to black ball OJ. He did it to himself.

[martin II]

Originally posted by tazzybaby


Hi Martin,

I think you're missing my point. What does that major american white owned company want? Money! Do they care who makes them that money? No. If putting OJ on BET made them money they wouldn't care who complained. If the viewing audience (black, white, yellow, green) liked what they put on there then it makes them money. I'm sure they'd like the controversial coverage it would cause. How many media outlets made money on covering the OJ story? Tons. If they thought they could still make money they would.

This is not some big huge conspiracy by the white people to black ball OJ. He did it to himself.

tazzy

oj was found not guilty . this verdict made some americans angry. mostly white americans. having understood that these angry people would protest against their product if they used oj as a pitch man, these companies put him on black ball. OJ had nothing to do with the act of black balling him
martin II

[weezer]

Originally posted by martin II


tazzy

oj was found not guilty . this verdict made some americans angry. mostly white americans. having understood that these angry people would protest against their product if they used oj as a pitch man, these companies put him on black ball. OJ had nothing to do with the act of black balling him
martin II Orenthal was found liable. This made many Americans happy -- some of which were white. Orenthal had everything to do with companies blackballing him -- He shouldn't have murdered Nicole and Ron.

[Beebee]

Originally posted by Beebee


Okay, thanks bob. Do you know if they had valet parking at all? Seems parking is very scarce.

I realize this is an old question, but I don't think it was ever answered.

Did the Mezzaluna have valet parking on Sunday June12?

[weezer]

Originally posted by Beebee


I realize this is an old question, but I don't think it was ever answered.

Did the Mezzaluna have valet parking on Sunday June12? IIRC, someone told you 'not on the night of the murders.'

[Beebee]

Originally posted by fbgweezer
IIRC, someone told you 'not on the night of the murders.'

Yes, it was Bob.... but he never explained.
I would like to know how it was determined that there was no valet parking that Sunday. Did they usually have it, but not on Sundays or what?

[bobaugust]

Originally posted by Beebee


Yes, it was Bob.... but he never explained.
I would like to know how it was determined that there was no valet parking that Sunday. Did they usually have it, but not on Sundays or what?


Beebee, that's correct. The Mezzaluna Restaurant did have valet parking but not on Sundays.

bobaugust

[Kate Sachel]

If I recall correctly, the reason they did not have valet on Sundays is that the normal parking enforcements that made parking so difficult during every other day were not enforced on Sundays.

[Beebee]

Thanks Bob and Kate.

I was reading on Wagners site that he finally had confirmation that Mezzaluna did have valet, and he said "during the time of the murders"... so I wanted to get it cleared up.

thanks

[2L8 4A D8]

At one time there was a Thread re: the Bags, etc., but it has obviously been deleted because I can't find it, or else I would have put this post on that Thread.

The following post by Wukong brings up some good information. All of us have been posting about this at one time or another. I just thought that it was worth repeating and food for thought, so to speak!

JMO and MOO!!

Originally Posted by Wukong
05-07-2006, 05:46 AM

Uplate,

I agree with some of what you say concerning the MO of the prosecution. I do believe there were plenty of clues and evidence that, once revealed, did not fit their theory or impossible timeline they came up with. I like your analogy with the runaway train, there was so much momentum that it was impossible to put on the brakes.

Some important situations that were not brought up were:

1) Bill Wasz and his involvement with Kardashian and OJ. Wasz was OJ's cocaine supplier. Kardashian hired Wasz to follow Nicole in January of '94, take pictures of who she met with and detail her movements. He then asked Wasz to kill Nicole, while she was at OJ's house, offered him a gun, told him to steal Paula Barbieri's car (telling him when and where to find it, which Wasz did) offered him $17,000 for the hit. Wasz stole the money from Kardashian at gun point then stole Paula's car and went on a drug induced robbery spree. He was caught, in Paula's car which contained a notebook with his detailed notes on following Nicole, and spent ten years in prison. He was released from prison in 2004 and ended up dead less than a year later, murdered say some.

2) OJ's regular limo driver, Rocky Bateman. According to Mario Nitrini, Rocky's inlaw at the time, Mario was asked in late 1993 to follow Nicole also; Mario wisely declined.

Rocky and Mario were at a family function together in late '93 and were hanging out in the back of "The" limo, which Rocky drove all the time. Rocky was showing Mario the hidden compartments in the limo, including a large one in the back seat area. He was talking about the times he drives OJ around out on the town partying. Apparantly Rocky was not only OJ's driver, but also a party participant. He then told Mario about driving Nicole and friends to the airport and hearing them plotting to get money out of OJ. Rocky told this to OJ and OJ asked him to find someone to follow Nicole to get more information about this alleged plot; enter Mario.

The day of the murders, Rocky called Dale St John and told him he could not drive OJ that night because he was camping with his daughters. The day after the murders "someone" brought a bag, which was taken from the back of the limo, to Rocky at the campsite and Rocky dumped the bag and it's contents in the lake.On June 14th, two days after the murders, Rocky is seen by a reporter at Rockingham. He is leaving the estate with two more bags in his hands. This happens to be on tape. Shortly afterward Rocky flees California at the urging, and with finances from, OJ's people.

What is interesting about this story is that OJ picks up a bag from behind his Bentley and carries it into the back of the limo after the murders. When OJ arrives at the airport he gets out of the limo and the two guys who are right there to get his autograph see him exit the limo but don't see OJ carry the bag.

Many people discount this story but I have been talking directly with Mario lately and he has told me many things that convince me this is absolutely true. Mario, upon learning of the murders, approaches both the defense and the prosecution with this evidence and is driven away by both. Finally the police (Detective Ron Ito, no relation to the judge) contact Mario. Mario tells Ito the story and Ito says he investigated the limo company and Rocky Bateman does not work there. Very interesting!

Just figured I'd add some new stuff that the recent posters may not have known...

<snipped>

Wukong

[n.n]

Wukong, I've read that before. I saw the testimony live. I've seen it replayed. And I've seen it discussed since. It is now known and acknowledged that the human body does not manufacture EDTA. Blood in the bloodstream does not contain EDTA. It is not "naturally" found in anyone's blood.

EDTA could have been in the blood found on the socks only - only! - if the EDTA had come from laundry soap residue left in the socks themselves. But the socks tested negative for EDTA. The chemical preservative was found only in the blood on the sock.

Would you want to stand trial for your life and not challenge evidence like that?

Amen! That's what I've read too. Also that the blood appeared to be smeared on the sock according to the blood spatter expert. He also stated that there had been no foot inside the sock when the blood got on it. The blood had seeped throung the top of the fabric to the bottom. The sock was also checked for sweat, which could have prevented the blood from congealing, so that the blood may have seeped through after the sock was taken off. The result was negative.
I also find it weird that their was 1 sock of a pair and 1 glove of a pair found. Just a thought, though.

[weezer]

*Snipped*I also find it weird that their was 1 sock of a pair and 1 glove of a pair found.

what 1 sock of a pair?

[bobaugust]

Amen! That's what I've read too. Also that the blood appeared to be smeared on the sock according to the blood spatter expert. He also stated that there had been no foot inside the sock when the blood got on it. The blood had seeped throung the top of the fabric to the bottom. The sock was also checked for sweat, which could have prevented the blood from congealing, so that the blood may have seeped through after the sock was taken off. The result was negative.
I also find it weird that their was 1 sock of a pair and 1 glove of a pair found. Just a thought, though.

n.n, the defense claim was contradicted by the evidence of how the socks were found, by Dr. Lee' testimony, and by the fact that Nicole's blood was later proven it was not planted on Simpson's sock

The Prosecution Responds, Hang Goldberg
"Dr. Herbert MacDonell testified that Nicole's bloodstain had penetrated one side of Simpson's sock and had transferred to the other side. The defense theorized that this could not have happened if someone had been wearing the socks at the time because blood cannot go through someone's ankle. They claimed that the idea that no one was wearing the socks when the blood was deposited on them supported their planting theory. The implication was that someone deposited Nicole's blood while the socks were lying flat on a table. Interestingly the stain that would have traveled through the wearer's ankle was only a microscopic speck.

I easily dispatched this issue with Dr. Lee. I asked him whether the microscopic stain could have been caused if the socks were inside out and the toe of the sock was touching the ankle. I knew from photographs that this was, indeed, how the socks were recovered. However the defense only provided Dr. Lee with second generation photographs. From his photographs of the socks, he would not been able to see that the socks were recovered in this condition. I asked Dr. Lee whether this could account for the questioned microscopic stain.

After Dr. Lee admitted that my scenario could account for the questioned stain, I produced my photograph. It clearly showed that the scenario I outlined to Dr. Lee was, in fact, what had happened. The socks were collected inside out, with the toe touching the ankle, showing how blood got from one side of the sock to the other.

I also elicited evidence from the forensic science literature that a single drop of blood on nylon material could take from seventy five minutes to nine hours to dry. The socks were nylon. Therefore, the blood could also have transferred from one side to the other after Simpson returned to Rockingham and took his socks off.

In short, Dr Lee's testimony showed logical, rational explanations for how blood got from one side of the sock to the other."

bobaugust

[William Anthony]

n.n, the defense claim was contradicted by the evidence of how the socks were found, by Dr. Lee' testimony, and by the fact that Nicole's blood was later proven it was not planted on Simpson's sock

The Prosecution Responds, Hang Goldberg
"Dr. Herbert MacDonell testified that Nicole's bloodstain had penetrated one side of Simpson's sock and had transferred to the other side. The defense theorized that this could not have happened if someone had been wearing the socks at the time because blood cannot go through someone's ankle. They claimed that the idea that no one was wearing the socks when the blood was deposited on them supported their planting theory. The implication was that someone deposited Nicole's blood while the socks were lying flat on a table. Interestingly the stain that would have traveled through the wearer's ankle was only a microscopic speck.

I easily dispatched this issue with Dr. Lee. I asked him whether the microscopic stain could have been caused if the socks were inside out and the toe of the sock was touching the ankle. I knew from photographs that this was, indeed, how the socks were recovered. However the defense only provided Dr. Lee with second generation photographs. From his photographs of the socks, he would not been able to see that the socks were recovered in this condition. I asked Dr. Lee whether this could account for the questioned microscopic stain.

After Dr. Lee admitted that my scenario could account for the questioned stain, I produced my photograph. It clearly showed that the scenario I outlined to Dr. Lee was, in fact, what had happened. The socks were collected inside out, with the toe touching the ankle, showing how blood got from one side of the sock to the other.

I also elicited evidence from the forensic science literature that a single drop of blood on nylon material could take from seventy five minutes to nine hours to dry. The socks were nylon. Therefore, the blood could also have transferred from one side to the other after Simpson returned to Rockingham and took his socks off.

In short, Dr Lee's testimony showed logical, rational explanations for how blood got from one side of the sock to the other."

bobaugust

Another logical explanatiion is that, because according to the evidence collection record and the time on the camrecorder, the stains were planted.

[bobaugust]

Another logical explanatiion is that, because according to the evidence collection record and the time on the camrecorder, the stains were planted.

The video recorder had the incorrect time on it and the witness who took the video testified that he waited for Fung to finish collecting the evidence in Simpson's bedroom before he video taped the bedroom

Dr. Cotton testified that based on the fact that Nicole's blood on Simpson's sock was less degraded than the blood in her autopsy sample it was impossible for her blood to have been planted on Simpson's sock.

bobaugust

[William Anthony]

The video recorder had the incorrect time on it and the witness who took the video testified that he waited for Fung to finish collecting the evidence in Simpson's bedroom before he video taped the bedroom

Dr. Cotton testified that based on the fact that Nicole's blood on Simpson's sock was less degraded than the blood in her autopsy sample it was impossible for her blood to have been planted on Simpson's sock.

bobaugust

That is all relative to whether or not you belive the testimony or your eyes.