"My Roommate, Ben Fawley" in Style Weekly 2/1

[singlesix]

I just glanced through this. It's a fairly long article, not yet on-line, written by a woman who needed a place near VCU and happened to move into his apartment on 7/31. She lived there until her new computer was confiscated and an FBI agent advised her to get out immediately.

Very interesting background.

"Poring over phone records with authorities, I would learn that his first phone call upon returning from his last night with her, made literally the minute he returned, was to UPS, to check the status of some packages." - Cesca Janece Waterfeld

And no, I'm not going to type the whole thing. It will be on-line...the 1/25 Style Weekly is available so this one should be soon.

singlesix

edited to add: now it's up www.styleweekly.com/article.asp?idarticle=11722

[protectkidz]

Thanks for the link to this, singlesix - very interesting article. I feel so sorry for his daughters.

PK

[vedder]

Now,could anybody still think it was an "accident" after reading that?

It was all Taylors fault because she liked to flirt with older guys and had "daddy issues"...This is what he is saying...

Of course he was going to act like nothing was wrong,HE wasn't to blame for this mess...TAYLOR was...

He makes me sick to my stomach...

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by vedder
Now,could anybody still think it was an "accident" after reading that?

It was all Taylors fault because she liked to flirt with older guys and had "daddy issues"...This is what he is saying...

Of course he was going to act like nothing was wrong,HE wasn't to blame for this mess...TAYLOR was...

He makes me sick to my stomach...

ITA, Vedder!

BF exhibits the hallmark signs of a sociopath, i.e., failure to take responsibility, pathological lying, lack of emotion, lack of remorse, etc, etc.

[vedder]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


ITA, Vedder!

BF exhibits the hallmark signs of a sociopath, i.e., failure to take responsibility, pathological lying, lack of emotion, lack of remorse, etc, etc.

There should absolutely be NO doubt in anyones mind that he was a PREDATOR who took advantage of a young girl...

He KNEW she had daddy issues

He KNEW she was deeply insecure and could be easily manipulated...

He knew EXACTLY what he was doing

The main theme throughout Taylors Journals was, How she desperately wanted to be accepted and loved...

I cant even imagine all the non-sense this idiot was spewing to that young girl...

Vedder, exactly what do you think happened? I'm interested in knowing.

[vedder]

Originally posted by Rowan Again
Vedder, exactly what do you think happened? I'm interested in knowing.

Hey Rowan....which part?

Originally posted by vedder


Hey Rowan....which part?

I'm interested in what you think happened from 10:20 p.m. to the arrival in Mathews. In other words, do you think that he took her off the street and forced her to let him drive her car? If so, why is there no one in a busy college town, on a night when students are returning at all hours, who can say that they saw this? Or do you think there IS someone and it's being kept on the QT?

I am, frankly, worried about the ability to make 1st degree stick.

I'm just trying to tie up some loose ends in my mind :)

And I'm editing my post to say the following:

I don't want anyone to misconstrue my intentions here. I know Ben Fawley killed Taylor Behl. And I believe Ben Fawley should be punished for his crime.

I have read and read and have tried to stick with all the various theories, but there seems to be (IMO) some gaping holes. LE might have them plugged and it's just not common knowledge, and if that's so, all the better. But I would like to discuss them.

THAT having been said, and I'm going way out on a limb, I know that several people have approached me and each other about feeling reluctant to discuss theory, etc. about this because Janet reads.

I can't speak for Janet, but I can say that if I were in her spot, and I came across something that was unpleasant for me, I'd avoid it. I'm sure she recognizes that this is a public message board and that differing opinions are possible.

I hope she also realizes that NO ONE on this board wishes any more pain on her, or any more discomfort. But that by the same token, people have to be free to express their views.

You may all spit on me now.

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


I'm with you on that, Row.

I just feel good knowing that LE has the evidence they need, or they wouldn't have gone for the indictment.

I also wish we could discuss that evidence here, but we can't.

I know :) I tried :)

[vedder]

Originally posted by Rowan Again


I'm interested in what you think happened from 10:20 p.m. to the arrival in Mathews. In other words, do you think that he took her off the street and forced her to let him drive her car? If so, why is there no one in a busy college town, on a night when students are returning at all hours, who can say that they saw this? Or do you think there IS someone and it's being kept on the QT?

I am, frankly, worried about the ability to make 1st degree stick.

I'm just trying to tie up some loose ends in my mind :)

I believe she was going to her car and ran into him on the street.
I believe he convinced her to stop in to check out some skateboards and chat etc...

He tried to make an advance,it was rejected...I believe he than grabbed her from BEHIND, pushed her to the floor and choked her with his body weight on top of her....I do not believe she agreed to go anywhere with him that nite and she was NOT there to have sex...

She was trying to work things out with a boy she really liked...
Logic would dictate that you would not want to do anything that would screw that up...

He than thought of Erins farm, A good,safe place to hide a body

I also believe he had been stalking her as well.

We know these idiots always tell half-truths right...
BF kept saying he "saw" her earlier in the day...That does not mean that SHE SAW HIM....Do you see what I am saying?

I think he hated seeing her with her new friend and lost it...

Okay, so you believe that he killed her in his apartment in Richmond by grabbing her from behind and pushing her to the floor.

How did he get her OUT of the apartment and into the car without being seen?

Again, I'm just trying to piece entire pictures together, okay? I very much respect your opinion.

[vedder]

Originally posted by Rowan Again
Okay, so you believe that he killed her in his apartment in Richmond by grabbing her from behind and pushing her to the floor.

How did he get her OUT of the apartment and into the car without being seen?

Again, I'm just trying to piece entire pictures together, okay? I very much respect your opinion.

I have no idea how his apartment was set up, so I couldn't really say....I do know that where I live, I could remove a body at 2.30 am with out being seen.I live in a city as well.

Removing the body was never an issue for me,as her car was parked right outside his door.It would have taking less than a minute to get her from the door to her car...

Okay, so we're assuming that they met on the street near her car, which was not parked far from Fawley's apartment. He persuaded her to come back to his apartment with him, where he killed her.

Now, your theory assumes he moved the car from point A to point B. Couldn't have been very far as I understand it. And that there was a parking spot available in front of his place. There were at LEAST 3-4 steps in front of his front door, I believe. And I think he lived on the 2nd floor.

So he would somehow had to have transported her from the apartment to the car.

The article that was printed today by the roommate indicates that she was freely coming and going in the apartment at that time. I don't believe she indicates in that article that she was working or otherwise not in the apartment. In fact, she says that her parents visited her on that date - so she WAS at home.

She says in her article that she spent the night of September 5 alone in the apartment. In fact, she did not go to bed until 3:30 a.m.

Which would shoot this theory.

From the above-referenced article:

I spent the night Taylor disappeared, Sept. 5, alone in the apartment setting up my new computer and was awake much later than was typical for me. I’d bought the desktop that afternoon before having to go into work, and I was excited about the purchase. But the excitement paled when it became clear that either the hardware was faulty or the configurations of the apartment’s network — Ben’s four or so computers and mine — were preventing proper setup. Finally, at close to 3:30 in the morning, I went to bed frustrated, but rose a few hours later to run errands.

This might also explain why Richmond police couldn't charge him there. Because there was no evidence that Taylor had been in Ben's apartment that evening.

Which brings us to this: if Taylor was not in Ben's apartment that evening, only one of two things could have happened ..

Either Ben somehow persuaded her to let him drive her somewhere (for coffee? skateboarding?) in her car and he abducted her that way OR he forcibly abducted her (for which there have been no reported witnesses)

or

Taylor agreed to get in the car with Ben. For what purpose we do not know.

And without witnesses to say that she was FORCIBLY taken off the street, I find a huge problem with first degree.

It worries me frankly.

[vedder]

Originally posted by Rowan Again
From the above-referenced article:

I spent the night Taylor disappeared, Sept. 5, alone in the apartment setting up my new computer and was awake much later than was typical for me. I’d bought the desktop that afternoon before having to go into work, and I was excited about the purchase. But the excitement paled when it became clear that either the hardware was faulty or the configurations of the apartment’s network — Ben’s four or so computers and mine — were preventing proper setup. Finally, at close to 3:30 in the morning, I went to bed frustrated, but rose a few hours later to run errands.

Read it again Rowan

"But that afternoon,(Sept 5) he was in great spirits. He met my parents then, and talked with my father about repairs to the heating system he had planned. I dressed for work and at "4:30 "said goodbye"

She said she left for work at 4.30

She states she WAS NOT HOME

"He made a comment that he’d been excited to see that I was out the night of her disappearance. He was able to have sex without concern of my intrusion.''

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


well he didn't abduct her and force her to drive anywhere.........not without a weapon.........

But he DID have guns Angel .. that we know. Now. Whether he had one with him or not ..

Originally posted by vedder


Read it again Rowan

"But that afternoon,(Sept 5) he was in great spirits. He met my parents then, and talked with my father about repairs to the heating system he had planned. I dressed for work and at "4:30 "said goodbye"

She said she left for work at 4.30

She states she WAS NOT HOME

"He made a comment that he’d been excited to see that I was out the night of her disappearance. He was able to have sex without concern of my intrusion.''

Not necessarily vedder.

Taylor didn't leave VCU until 10:20.

We don't know what time (according to this article) this young lady worked. We don't know what her hours were. She says she waited tables. So maybe until 9:30 or so? What time did she get home?

See, we don't know what, if any, window of opportunity there was for Taylor and Ben to be at the house alone.

AND if he killed her there, what is the window of opportunity for him to do so and get her OUT of there before this girl came home from work?

Seems dicey to me. Plus, there appears to be NO forensics or Richmond would have made that case.

[vedder]

Originally posted by Rowan Again


Not necessarily vedder.

Taylor didn't leave VCU until 10:20.

We don't know what time (according to this article) this young lady worked. We don't know what her hours were. She says she waited tables. So maybe until 9:30 or so? What time did she get home?

See, we don't know what, if any, window of opportunity there was for Taylor and Ben to be at the house alone.

AND if he killed her there, what is the window of opportunity for him to do so and get her OUT of there before this girl came home from work?

Seems dicey to me. Plus, there appears to be NO forensics or Richmond would have made that case.

If she waited tables at a bar she wouldn't have gotten back to much later...more than enough time for BF to do what he did

Bf wouldn't have made that comment(thanking her for NOT being there) if he knew she was home at 9.30....As we know, Taylor did not even leave her dorm till 10.20...

He knew she would be home late

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


So somebody track this down. Somebody local. Find out where this girl worked and what her hours were that night.

My curiosity is killing me.....

I'm sure Row will offer some financial incentive.

:eek:

:lol:

:punch:


vedder, I agree that it IS possible. It just doesn't sound probable.

First off, I don't believe a WORD that Ben Fawley has said. So anything he said to her is, IMO, bullsheit.

The key to this is what time she got home. We know that Taylor couldn't have gotten there before 10:30 or so.

And we know that this gal went to bed at 3:30 after working for several hours on her computer. So at the MOST conservative, can we say that she might have arrived home around midnight?

That would give Fawley 1.5 hours to execute the plan that you've outlined, which is possible. But then we have to figure in the transportation of Taylor's body down the steps and onto the street and into a car BEFORE midnight on a busy holiday evening.

I just think this has holes in it.

Okay, I'm out of here for a bit!

[vedder]

Originally posted by Rowan Again


:eek:

:lol:

:punch:


vedder, I agree that it IS possible. It just doesn't sound probable.

First off, I don't believe a WORD that Ben Fawley has said. So anything he said to her is, IMO, bullsheit.

The key to this is what time she got home. We know that Taylor couldn't have gotten there before 10:30 or so.

And we know that this gal went to bed at 3:30 after working for several hours on her computer. So at the MOST conservative, can we say that she might have arrived home around midnight?

That would give Fawley 1.5 hours to execute the plan that you've outlined, which is possible. But then we have to figure in the transportation of Taylor's body down the steps and onto the street and into a car BEFORE midnight on a busy holiday evening.

I just think this has holes in it.

Okay, I'm out of here for a bit!

I believe she got home after the bar closed, messed with her PC for an hour or so and than went to bed...

It would have taking less than an hour to do what he did...

I believe it happened in his apartment because HE THANKED HER for NOT being there...

[vedder]

"He made a comment that he’d been excited to see that I was out the night of her disappearance. He was able to have sex without concern of my intrusion.''

"Out for the night"...this says it all right here

He knew he had time....he knew she would be home late

He had a REASON to thank her for being out for the nite...

[vedder]

Originally posted by Rowan Again
Which brings us to this: if Taylor was not in Ben's apartment that evening, only one of two things could have happened ..

Either Ben somehow persuaded her to let him drive her somewhere (for coffee? skateboarding?) in her car and he abducted her that way OR he forcibly abducted her (for which there have been no reported witnesses)

or

Taylor agreed to get in the car with Ben. For what purpose we do not know.

And without witnesses to say that she was FORCIBLY taken off the street, I find a huge problem with first degree.

It worries me frankly.

If it would have happened some place other than his apartment,
he would not have thanked her for NOT being there...COG

[protectkidz]

I think that by the time this girl got back to the apartment, Taylor was already in Mathews County with Ben.

I think your theory sounds more plausible, vedder, than what probably happened. Ben is not an organized killer, and your theory is too organized! I know we're trying to find a first degree here, but it's been brought up that premeditation can occur during the seconds it takes to put your hands on someone's neck, to the moment of death. Those moments in between, that the hands are not removed, are the moments of premeditation.

But I can't help but feel that if LE could charge him in Richmond, they would. Richmond has better resources for handling a trial of this magnitude. They must have a witness or something that tells them that Taylor made it to Mathews alive.

I think he said, "Let's talk - let's go for a ride. We can just be friends, but let's talk it out". When Taylor agreed to go for a ride, he directed her out to Mathews and the beach, and later left her for authorities to find at Erin's parent's land.

I'm wondering where he left Taylor's car.

PK

[TN_Profiler]

Unless he was merely trying to establish that he had sexual contact with her.

By telling other people this story ..... the possibility that it could be corroborated increased.

Yes, there can be many angles with this type of statement but I do hesitate to accept anything Benny-boy has said as being the gospel.

One thing I thought of when I read the article was how easily he slips into his surroundings. Within hours of killing a person he calmly goes about his life stopping only to complain that he has some discomfort.

Sheesh, what a guy.

[TN_Profiler]

Originally posted by protectkidz


I'm wondering where he left Taylor's car.

PK

That question has been bothering me from day one. Such a small detail given the magnitude of the circumstances but for some reason I can't help but wonder what he did with her car for the 2 weeks or so it was missing.

Does that question bother anyone else?

[vedder]

Originally posted by protectkidz
I think that by the time this girl got back to the apartment, Taylor was already in Mathews County with Ben.

I think your theory sounds more plausible, vedder, than what probably happened. Ben is not an organized killer, and your theory is too organized! I know we're trying to find a first degree here, but it's been brought up that premeditation can occur during the seconds it takes to put your hands on someone's neck, to the moment of death. Those moments in between, that the hands are not removed, are the moments of premeditation.

But I can't help but feel that if LE could charge him in Richmond, they would. Richmond has better resources for handling a trial of this magnitude. They must have a witness or something that tells them that Taylor made it to Mathews alive.

I think he said, "Let's talk - let's go for a ride. We can just be friends, but let's talk it out". When Taylor agreed to go for a ride, he directed her out to Mathews and the beach, and later left her for authorities to find at Erin's parent's land.

I'm wondering where he left Taylor's car.

PK

''too organized ???"

He baited her, he attacked her,he killed her

He panicked, he fled, he left her poor body in a ditch

Im not sure what you mean by "too organized"




"

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by vedder


''too organized ???"

He baited her, he attacked her,he killed her

He panicked, he fled, he left her poor body in a ditch

Im not sure what you mean by "too organized"




"

Well, by organized, I meant that BF seemed so scatterbrained to me - that being able to do all of that in his own apartment, quietly without anyone noticing, and then leaving the apartment to drive her to Mathews without leaving a trace behind for the roommate to notice. I definitely wasn't criticizing your theory, vedder. But I don't see BF capable of being that neat, tidy and timely.

The first degree charge seems hard to prove to me - if he had done it the way you said, vedder, it would seem easier to me to prove. So they must have something that places Taylor in Mathews alive, and they must have something that shows it wasn't consensual, and that he had decided to do this.

PK

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by TN_Profiler


That question has been bothering me from day one. Such a small detail given the magnitude of the circumstances but for some reason I can't help but wonder what he did with her car for the 2 weeks or so it was missing.

Does that question bother anyone else?

Yes, it bothers me a lot.

[vedder]

Originally posted by protectkidz


Well, by organized, I meant that BF seemed so scatterbrained to me - that being able to do all of that in his own apartment, quietly without anyone noticing, and then leaving the apartment to drive her to Mathews without leaving a trace behind for the roommate to notice. I definitely wasn't criticizing your theory, vedder. But I don't see BF capable of being that neat, tidy and timely.

The first degree charge seems hard to prove to me - if he had done it the way you said, vedder, it would seem easier to me to prove. So they must have something that places Taylor in Mathews alive, and they must have something that shows it wasn't consensual, and that he had decided to do this.

PK
He was a predator and he had fantasies about doing somthing like this for years....He had played this out in his sick head a million times...He knew what he had to do and he was ready...

Don't forget LE has not givin a single bit of info...There is so much we dont know or how much THEY DO...

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by vedder

He was a predator and he had fantasies about doing somthing like this for years....He had played this out in his sick head a million times...He knew what he had to do and he was ready...

Don't forget LE has not givin a single bit of info...There is so much we dont know or how much THEY DO...

Exactly, with the gag in place there's got to be a lot we don't know. It's a strange case in that way - first, we know too much because of all of the online journals, and now we know nothing.

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by TN_Profiler


That question has been bothering me from day one. Such a small detail given the magnitude of the circumstances but for some reason I can't help but wonder what he did with her car for the 2 weeks or so it was missing.

Does that question bother anyone else?

Taylor's car could have been anywhere, including where it was found, without it being noticed because BF had switched the license plates.

IMO

[Hey Paula]

I thought it might be interesting take a fresh look at the search warrant issued, and the items recovered from BF's house/trash can. IIRC, Taylor owned a bicycle chain necklace.

Fawley Search Warrant (http://www.tvstats.com/wwbt/news/view_story.cfm?newsItemID=2959&window=true)

[vedder]

Originally posted by protectkidz


Exactly, with the gag in place there's got to be a lot we don't know. It's a strange case in that way - first, we know too much because of all of the online journals, and now we know nothing.

Dont forget it is just my own theory...and could be very,very wrong...

I am as clueless as everyone as to what really happened...

But my mind is trying to make some kinda sense of this horrific nightmare...

Like I said, I am 36 years old, have come into contact with thousands of people in my life....I have NEVER even come CLOSE to killing anyone...not even close...

It makes NO sense to me whatsoever...None..

Originally posted by vedder

He was a predator and he had fantasies about doing somthing like this for years....He had played this out in his sick head a million times...He knew what he had to do and he was ready...

Don't forget LE has not givin a single bit of info...There is so much we dont know or how much THEY DO...

With all due respect vedder, how do you know this to be true? I've done some research on this and while some of the information is conflicting, what I've found seems to indicate that he had a flash temper, and could be reckless when angry - but I've seen nowhere that anyone has said that he "had fantasies about doing something like this for years".

And yes, I agree that LE is withholding much information, and I'm glad about that. But one very glaring fact stands out: they didn't have a case in Richmond or that's where this would have been tried.

I believe PK was speaking to the fact that in your theory, all of this would have required Ben to act quickly, rationally, calmly and as evidenced by his many conflicting statements concerning the events of those days, he seems incapable of organized thought.

Plus, the roommate doesn't mention seeing scratch marks or any bruises of any kind.

And we can only theorize on how long the girl was out of the apartment AFTER 10:30 p.m. that night.

I think it's just way too random.

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by vedder


Dont forget it is just my own theory...and could be very,very wrong...

I am as clueless as everyone as to what really happened...

But my mind is trying to make some kinda sense of this horrific nightmare...

Like I said, I am 36 years old, have come into contact with thousands of people in my life....I have NEVER even come CLOSE to killing anyone...not even close...

It makes NO sense to me whatsoever...None..

I've never come close, either! LOL!

You are very right about Ben working his way to this. It's obvious from his history and reading his online journals that he was becoming more twisted.

Originally posted by protectkidz


I've never come close, either! LOL!

You are very right about Ben working his way to this. It's obvious from his history and reading his online journals that he was becoming more twisted.

See, I'm not sure of that :) Ben Fawley is a sociopath. A chameleon. He will fit into whatever scenario he thinks will be to his advantage.

I'm just not certain that anything he says or said can be taken at face value!

I do know that there is what .. one person who says that he was violent with them? A female? That I find more credible in terms of judging his potential for violence then his journals.

[vedder]

Originally posted by Rowan Again


With all due respect vedder, how do you know this to be true? I've done some research on this and while some of the information is conflicting, what I've found seems to indicate that he had a flash temper, and could be reckless when angry - but I've seen nowhere that anyone has said that he "had fantasies about doing something like this for years".

And yes, I agree that LE is withholding much information, and I'm glad about that. But one very glaring fact stands out: they didn't have a case in Richmond or that's where this would have been tried.

I believe PK was speaking to the fact that in your theory, all of this would have required Ben to act quickly, rationally, calmly and as evidenced by his many conflicting statements concerning the events of those days, he seems incapable of organized thought.

Plus, the roommate doesn't mention seeing scratch marks or any bruises of any kind.

And we can only theorize on how long the girl was out of the apartment AFTER 10:30 p.m. that night.

I think it's just way too random.

If he threw a bag over her head and jumped on her from behind,she wouldn't have been able to scratch or bruise him..she would have been pinned down and reaching and scratching for her own throat that had his hands around them, and IIRC his hands WERE scratched and marked up(ie..faceless video)

Wait and see..again, its just my opinion

He was way sicker than anyone thinks....He had thoughts about killing someone LONG before he actually did it...

Mark my words...

I've not a clue what happened myself vedder. I honestly don't mean to give you a hard time. I really am just trying to get to the facts and see how they fit into different theories.

I appreciate your sharing, I really do :)

[vedder]

Originally posted by Rowan Again
I've not a clue what happened myself vedder. I honestly don't mean to give you a hard time. I really am just trying to get to the facts and see how they fit into different theories.

I appreciate your sharing, I really do :)

LOL, I just had this conversation with PK

I NEVER feel anyone is giving me a hard time,I know I have very strong opinions....

This is the reason we are here, to talk and hear differen't theorys and to show we CARE....

Its not in my nature to be easily offended LOL

I see you out there Rowan...Its good to talk about this with someone who cares as much as I do...

Originally posted by vedder


LOL, I just had this conversation with PK

I NEVER feel anyone is giving me a hard time,I know I have very strong opinions....

This is the reason we are here, to talk and hear differen't theorys and to show we CARE....

Its not in my nature to be easily offended LOL

I see you out there Rowan...Its good to talk about this with someone who cares as much as I do...

Thank you :) I DO appreciate that. I know I can be kinda .. cranky and cold. But underneath it all, I just want the SOB who did this to pay.

Taylor :rose:

[vedder]

Originally posted by protectkidz


I've never come close, either! LOL!

You are very right about Ben working his way to this. It's obvious from his history and reading his online journals that he was becoming more twisted.

It was building up in him for a long time...

First it starts with throwing keys at someones head

Than he chokes someone, not long, just enough to scare her...

He chokes another girl but this time he wants to do more than scare her...she thought she was gong to die... he is starting to like the power and control he has when his hands are around their necks...But, it is not enough,he wants more...Its always in his thoughts...

So he waits...Here comes poor Taylor,ONE more rejection,one more reason to believe he is worthless...He hates feeling this way, he hates his mother, he hates Erin, he hates Taylor...Its all THEIR fault...

He never 'loved girls' like Cino stated....He HATED them...Every girl he had ever cared about had hurt and "wronged" him in some way...

He was DAMAGED from the time he was a child "why didn't you want me mommy?"

If it had not been Taylor, it would have been another poor,young girl....He was going to murder someone,and he knew it...

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by protectkidz


I've never come close, either! LOL!

You are very right about Ben working his way to this. It's obvious from his history and reading his online journals that he was becoming more twisted.

Yes, I'm quoting myself!

When I went over Ben's livejournals again today, I noticed what I thought was Ben getting very agitated. But I noticed that his agitation was directly related to Erin. Having Erin break up with him - I'm not sure of the entire story of how they were together - really threw him for a loop. The spiraling down that I noticed had all to do with Erin and the fact that she was using the pics of her he had taken (that he felt only he had the rights to).

I have a hard time believing that he killed Taylor to get back at Erin. And I have a hard time believing that Taylor agitated him as much as Erin did. So, I have a hard time understanding why in the h*** Taylor is no longer living.

It seems to me that if BF was going to murder someone with premeditation, it would've been Erin.

PK

[vedder]

Originally posted by protectkidz


Yes, I'm quoting myself!

When I went over Ben's livejournals again today, I noticed what I thought was Ben getting very agitated. But I noticed that his agitation was directly related to Erin. Having Erin break up with him - I'm not sure of the entire story of how they were together - really threw him for a loop. The spiraling down that I noticed had all to do with Erin and the fact that she was using the pics of her he had taken (that he felt only he had the rights to).

I have a hard time believing that he killed Taylor to get back at Erin. And I have a hard time believing that Taylor agitated him as much as Erin did. So, I have a hard time understanding why in the h*** Taylor is no longer living.

It seems to me that if BF was going to murder someone with premeditation, it would've been Erin.

PK

He didn't want to kill Erin because he loved her and had hopes of getting back together with her...

He took out all the rage he had for Erin out on Taylor...Like Paula said ,when he was killing Taylor, his mind was really Killing Erin

Are you starting to see how SICK this idiot really was?

I can see the displacement of anger, yes.

But I also see that his "art" being used without permission seems to be as big (if not bigger) emotional trigger than losing Erin.

[vedder]

Originally posted by Rowan Again
I can see the displacement of anger, yes.

But I also see that his "art" being used without permission seems to be as big (if not bigger) emotional trigger than losing Erin.

LOL..

See, I had always thought that was just bull****, to make him seem like a much more important "artist" than he really was

Like he was so OUTRAGED that someone would actually "steal" HIS work....come on...

The guy was a complete PHONEY..

Again,just my opinion Rowan...You are cracking me up now...

Originally posted by vedder


LOL..

See, I had always thought that was just bull****, to make him seem like a much more important "artist" than he really was

Like he was so OUTRAGED that someone would actually "steal" HIS work....come on...

The guy was a complete PHONEY..

Again,just my opinion Rowan...You are cracking me up now...

:punch:

You cannot tell me that an ego of his size - IF what you're alleging about him is true, would NOT be offended by the unauthorized use of his work!

Now. I gotta get some rest. This wore me out! LOLOLOL!

G'nite all! :seeya:

Originally posted by Peace
I wonder if it's possible - well, I suppose anything is possible - that Ben handcuffed Taylor somehow and she kicked him in the stomach? I don't recall whether we know for a fact that there were cuts on his face or whether that was speculation.

Hi Peace! :seeya:

This is definitely a possibility, again IF we can believe what Ben said to this girl!

argh! It's maddening!!

[vedder]

Originally posted by Peace
I wonder if it's possible - well, I suppose anything is possible - that Ben handcuffed Taylor somehow and she kicked him in the stomach? I don't recall whether we know for a fact that there were cuts on his face or whether that was speculation.

I have been wondering where you have been hiding...
How are you Peace

That is very possible....handcuffs would be part of the whole bondage scene,would they not?

We know he had complained about his stomach

It appeared that his hands were torn up(but the just could have been filthy for all I know)...I THOUGHT I saw a band-aid...

I believe his roomate would have noticed scratches and bruises but she did not mention them..

[vedder]

Originally posted by Rowan Again


:punch:

You cannot tell me that an ego of his size - IF what you're alleging about him is true, would NOT be offended by the unauthorized use of his work!

Now. I gotta get some rest. This wore me out! LOLOLOL!

G'nite all! :seeya:

What ego??....he knew he was a loser

Eveything about him was an "act" and phoney...

To have an "ego",you have to have an INNER CORE...

He had absolutly NO IDEA who he was...thats why he always became what he THOUGHT his girlfriend wanted..

[vedder]

"September 5 would have been a busy night at any restaurant, Labor Day Monday - final hours for some to party or visit before returning to routine the next day or eat after returning to the city,etc. Since I grew up along the coast, I waited my share of tables (before I left for college) and when your shift starts around 4 or 5 you are usually closers - with buswork and closing tasks even if the restaurant closes at 11 PM, patrons are not shoved out the door. There is usually an hour before they all leave. And then there are cashouts, buswork, closing tasks before everyone walks out to their cars to go home. Sometimes the manager with or without a coworker has to take a deposit. That translates to no earlier than midnight"

That was my point...No one in a bar or restaurant starts at 5 and leaves at 9.30...That is the closing shift, she would have been there until well after midnight

She said she was gone "for the night"...does that ever mean 9.30??

Again,he KNEW he had time and there was a REASON he thanked her for not being home...

[vedder]

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


I still think fawley was a major girlie-man. I can't see him moving Taylors body very far. Not very far at all.

He didn't HAVE to move her very far...Her car was right outside his door....If he was in such a rage that he could actually KILL SOMEONE, I'm sure he would be able to find the strength to move the body a FEW FEET..

He was in PANIC mode...She could have weighed 350lbs and he would have found a way to move her...

[vedder]

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


Maybe you're right, vedder.

It's just that when I see a picture of fawley without his shirt on, I have to bite my tongue to keep from laughing..................

...................and with that I'm off to work out.......

I hear ya AA

I cant even look at his pictures without being sick to my stomach

He IS small and weak,but imagine the adrenaline that must be rushing through your body when you have just murdered someone...

[vedder]

Originally posted by Veracity
Vedder,

we seem to be on the same page tonight! I keep typing and once I hit the enter key I see your post and it is exactly what I was thinking!
I really am not trying to copycat you!

LOL...did you check your PMs?

I wrote you saying the same thing....

You know what they say....

[protectkidz]

Hi Guys:

Veracity - good to see you! LOL :seeya:

Yes, Peace - the owner of the property was in Asia - big article printed about him. It may be in the links thread. Good thought about the handcuffs - that may be why she wasn't able to hurt him more than she did.

The girl that roomed with Ben? She is a big mystery because I have never heard her name before and I've been very involved in this from the beginning. She's kept very quiet, and now is writing an article? With her three names? Hmmm....

Anyway - Veracity and vedder - you both are saying that you think Taylor was killed in the apartment. I'm still not convinced of that. You may be right, and vedder - you are convincing me more with each post - but with the gag I can't help but think that the facts stopped being related to the public and LE has more than we know. I truly still feel that he got here out of the city and into Mathews while she was still alive.

As far as his stomach hurting the next couple of days? I think that she kicked the sh*t out of him while she was fighting for her life. The only way a guy that small could do what he did, would be for him to have her pinned in a very confined space. Taylor probably left as many marks as she could. As for any injuries he may have had - he went to LE the next day and filed a bogus report, which would have explained any marks on him. And then of course, Taylor wasn't found for another 3 weeks. By then, he was healed.

What is next? The trial should be starting in May? Will the gag stop then? I understand that there will be at least one camera in the courtroom. I know all of us are waiting to find out exactly what happened that night.

PK

[vedder]

Peace

"Parking could be a bit limited on that street so I don't think it's a given that she parked directly in front of his house."

But you know as luck would have it ,THAT NIGHT,It probably WAS parked right in front....3 out of 4 nites it would have been down the street some....That nite it was there, right in front or at least not too far....

[protectkidz]

It would make more sense to me, if he was trying to avoid notice, for him to park her car in the same area that she usually parks.

I wonder where the car was parked for the 2 weeks before it was found. I never thought, when they found it, that it had been there the whole time.

[justathoughtdj]

Originally posted by Rowan Again
I can see the displacement of anger, yes.

But I also see that his "art" being used without permission seems to be as big (if not bigger) emotional trigger than losing Erin.

I am really late reading these today so someone may have already posted this and if they have I am sorry to repeat it. But under one of his many names on the divant art site (before the pictures were removed) the pictures of Erin were there and in the comment section bf himself wrote that he had taken them for her and that she had all rights to him. The date on that was before he started the crap about her using his work and selling them with out his permission.

[vedder]

Originally posted by protectkidz
Hi Guys:

Veracity - good to see you! LOL :seeya:

Yes, Peace - the owner of the property was in Asia - big article printed about him. It may be in the links thread. Good thought about the handcuffs - that may be why she wasn't able to hurt him more than she did.

The girl that roomed with Ben? She is a big mystery because I have never heard her name before and I've been very involved in this from the beginning. She's kept very quiet, and now is writing an article? With her three names? Hmmm....

Anyway - Veracity and vedder - you both are saying that you think Taylor was killed in the apartment. I'm still not convinced of that. You may be right, and vedder - you are convincing me more with each post - but with the gag I can't help but think that the facts stopped being related to the public and LE has more than we know. I truly still feel that he got here out of the city and into Mathews while she was still alive.

As far as his stomach hurting the next couple of days? I think that she kicked the sh*t out of him while she was fighting for her life. The only way a guy that small could do what he did, would be for him to have her pinned in a very confined space. Taylor probably left as many marks as she could. As for any injuries he may have had - he went to LE the next day and filed a bogus report, which would have explained any marks on him. And then of course, Taylor wasn't found for another 3 weeks. By then, he was healed.

What is next? The trial should be starting in May? Will the gag stop then? I understand that there will be at least one camera in the courtroom. I know all of us are waiting to find out exactly what happened that night.

PK

LE has not told us a SINGLE thing...You are right

I just don't believe she planned on going ANYWHERE with him THAT nite...I think she just happened to run into him or to grab a skateboard...

Again,I could be VERY wrong...he may have said 'Hey whats going on with Jake?....wanna take a ride and talk about it?"...Ya know,"good ole Ben" is here if ya wanna talk....

I just don't see her leaving with him at 10.30 on a school nite

What I DO want to know is WHO she made that last phone call to
and if she had plans to meet up with HIM...

There is so much we do not know....

[justathoughtdj]

Originally posted by justathoughtdj


I am really late reading these today so someone may have already posted this and if they have I am sorry to repeat it. But under one of his many names on the divant art site (before the pictures were removed) the pictures of Erin were there and in the comment section bf himself wrote that he had taken them for her and that she had all rights to him. The date on that was before he started the crap about her using his work and selling them with out his permission.

Ok first off sorry about the spelling errors LOL. It should have read that had all the rights to them not him. And I also misspelled Deviant Art. Guess that is what I get for not proofing before I post!

Ok well here is a like to one of the pics where he said that she had the rights to the nude pics of her!

http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/13534450/

[protectkidz]

Good job, just a thought - I thought they were all gone.

Vedder - yes, I thought very much that she wouldn't have willingly gone far on a school night - it had been a long weekend, and school was new to her. I had a hard time believing that she would have gone as far as Mathews, but what if by the time she got halfway, it was out of her control? Of course, she had also told her roommate that she would be back in a few hours. But then, the roommate was with a guy, and Taylor had just been dumped by hers. Who knows what she was up to at that point? Maybe depressed, and willing to go along with another plan?

Peace - yes, I distinctly remember reading an article about the owner - he was a serious traveler, and the article was all about him and his travels. Nothing about this case. I'll try to find a link. I'm positive he was in Asia at the time.

PK

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


Oh I definitely agree that looks can be deceiving when it comes to strength (not power, it takes strength endurance to drag a dead body). One name: Pavel Tsatouline. He's a Russian. Former instructor in the Russian "special forces". He's the guy who taught me to love the one-arm pushup. He's lean and wiry. And incredibly strong. You don't need a lot of muscle, you just need to use what you have with efficiency. And I'm guessing that fawley did not have a lot of strength. Not from what I can see.

No. I gotta go with vedder. It was the pumping of adrenaline all the way.

Not only that, but take into consideration that this guy was not a heavy drinker, not a big druggie - did he smoke?

His "roommate" said that she was worried when he was lifting her computer to the car.

Adrenaline could definitely be a factor.

[vedder]

Originally posted by protectkidz


Not only that, but take into consideration that this guy was not a heavy drinker, not a big druggie - did he smoke?

His "roommate" said that she was worried when he was lifting her computer to the car.

Adrenaline could definitely be a factor.

BF was offended when asked if he needed help..

She went on to say how he had no trouble with the very big box and then wondered how much Taylor weighed...

BF was small ,yes....but he was still a grown man...

135lbs would not be a problem in the state he was in...

[vedder]

Originally posted by Veracity


Isn't there an alley beside the apartment building too? Remember the dumpster shots of Ben and ?? some girl throwing a bunch of big black garbage bags in the dumpster while the TV and Newspaper people all took pictures? Didn't he take photos of that VAN in that alley too?


And as much as most everyone believes he acted alone. I am not convinced that he did everything alone. I know I will be out here on my own! No one else has been charged. No telling if anyone else will ever come to light. But unless the prosecution convinces me otherwise, I will continue to wonder about someone else being involved! Not in the murder - but with her car!

That dog going from Taylor's car to that one home and then later to the one a few blocks away still bugs me. Didn't Jesse work at a restaurant too? He was arrested for drugs. His aunt's house was burglarized. Did we ever really know the name of the restaurant where he worked? Wonder what the name of the restaurant that Ben's roomie worked at was/is?

I agree there are loads of loose ends. Information that we still don't have - there is much that could come out at the trial. I really have been surprised that no one else has been charged in connection with this crime. I have been wondering if someone cut a deal and is going to testify against Ben and that is why the Prosecution has gone with first degree murder.

We will all be thrilled once that trial gets underway and the facts come to light.

Veracity

No,no... you're NOT alone..
Hey Jude and I had always believed Jesse was somhow involved.

NOT with the actual murder,but with HELPING Ben clean up the "MESS" afterwords...He knows SOMETHING...

He may have evidence that could prove it was murder,so BFs not going to say or do anything to piss this kid off...

Im right there with you on this...

[vedder]

Veracity

Yes I did notice that...

Jesse claims he has not been on a skateboard since he was 12 though...

Do you think it was one of Taylors "skate buddies"

If it was he may have been pumping him for info so he could try and put HIS story together...

What do you think....

[protectkidz]

Veracity:

Jesse worked at The Village Cafe, which was where Taylor dined that night with Jake.

[vedder]

Originally posted by protectkidz
Veracity:

Jesse worked at The Village Cafe, which was where Taylor dined that night with Jake.

I thought he was quoted as saying he had NEVER worked there

Theres a link somewhere..

[singlesix]

"Jesse worked at The Village Cafe"

Not that I know of.

And I''ve never seen him on a skateboard FWIW.

__________

Re: the landlord and Asia

by Melissa Scott Sinclair (in Style Weekly)
August 10, 2005

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. So goes the old, oft-quoted Asian proverb. But what proverb can comfort the man who has already come more than a thousand miles, only to be told to turn around by a Kazakhstan border guard? Renowned woodworker and artist Sam Forrest left Richmond July 11 for what he hoped would be his greatest adventure — traveling the Silk Road from China to Western Europe. The Silk Road is a series of trade routes across Asia and Europe that were established around 500 B.C. and were traveled for 2,000 years.


“I was ready to go a couple years,” Forrest says. He had long wanted to travel the fabled road and was disenchanted with his isolated life in Louisa County, where, he says, the neighbors wouldn’t even tell him thank you when he gave them fresh-picked squash. Forrest searched Richmond for someone who would go with him as his researcher and travel companion, but found no volunteers.

So after exhibiting 25 pieces of his handcrafted furniture at La Différence, Forrest set off for Shanghai July 11. He then flew to Xian, a city in east-central China where one of the best-known Silk Road routes originated. From there he traveled west on a bus over 800 miles of desert.

Seeking to avoid passing through Pakistan, Afghanistan and their neighbors, Forrest thought he’d take the northern Silk Road route through Kazakhstan, a former Soviet republic. At the border, however, he was advised that he would need a visa to proceed and then learned it was too late to arrange all the other visas required to continue his journey. Not only that, Forrest relates, but people told him, “You don’t want to go with the Arabs, they’ll kill you.”

Forrest is no stranger to rough roads. As a younger man, he attempted to travel around the world. On the first try, he made it to Mississippi. On the second, Mexico City.

“On the fourth try,” he says, “I got all the way around.”

He backpacked through Indonesia, traversed Russia on the Trans-Siberian Railway and crossed the Atlantic Ocean alone in a boat. “Twenty-five years ago you could go anywhere except Libya,” he says.

But things have changed. So Forrest turned around and went home.

It wasn’t a wasted trip, he says. Forrest marvels at the kindness of the people he met, who guided him around and invited him to eat with them. “They have elevated human relations to its pristine form,” he says of the Chinese. And he saw firsthand the effects of massive economic change in China — the proliferation of cell phones, the construction of a superhighway across the desert.

Now Forrest is trying to figure out what to do next. In preparation for his trip, he sold his 34-acre Buddha Ranch in Louisa County and most of his possessions, including his woodworking machinery. He won’t make furniture anymore, he says, at least not soon. “My well runs dry,” he says.

Forrest now resides in a studio apartment in Carver, surrounded by the few things he kept: a canoe, a finely turned table, some mismatched wooden chairs and a family of antique meat grinders. And there’s a world map on the wall, of the colorful classroom variety, to plan where his next steps will take him.

[poplife]

I'm confused, I didn't realize Cino lived in that particular apt with Ben, I thought they parted ways at the apt before the last one??

I don't think Taylor's car was where it was found the entire time. No neighbors or the cop that found it saw it there. You'd remember seeing the same car for weeks if it was your neighborhood, at least someone on that street would have.

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by Peace
There is an alley beside that apartment, however, the access is from the basement of the bottom floor apartment and it's not an easy exit. I wouldn't see him as being able to get a body through that way.

I don't think Ben really smoked. If he did, it was occassional.

PK - if you can find that article on the owner, I'd appreciate it just out of curiosity. The guy I met was an older man and I have a lot of trouble envisioning him as a traveller. I'm wondering if there's someone else. I know who I made rent checks out to and I met that man. I can't put that together. Was it a link related to Taylor's case?

The article was about the owner of the apartment that Ben was managing - he was an older gentleman who loved Asia and traveled frequently.

I'm looking for the article - but yes, it was the owner of a property that Ben lived in and managed.

I could've sworn that Jesse worked at The Village Cafe - there was quite a lot of discussion about that earlier on. I'll try to track that info down, too.

PK

[protectkidz]

Thanks, single - for finding that article and posting it. I've been looking all over for it!

Also, I did find the article that has Janet saying that Jesse worked at the Village Cafe - don't know if this info turned out to be wrong, but I'm glad that I wasn't crazy, and that I did read that.

http://taylorbehl.notagz.com/20051008.html

"Asked if she had ever heard of Jesse Schultz before Taylor disappeared, Ms. Pelasara told Greta that when Taylor was home over the weekend she mentioned going skateboarding with three guys. She went on to say that "Ian and Jesse were two of the names that she (Taylor) mentioned," in the contnection with some skater friends of Taylor's. Hearing a new name, Greta asked about Ian. Ms. Pelasara stated it was her belief that Ian also worked at the Village Cafe, along with Jesse. Mr. Peterson confirmed that as his belief also, and stated that he understood that Ian was one of the eight people that appeared before the grand jury on Wednesday. Asked by Greta about any other names of people that may have seen Taylor on the night she disappeared, Janet told her that "Kevin, the cook at the Village Cafe... he's one of the three skaters."

[protectkidz]

From reading the article about Mr. Forrest and his travels, it looks like he was back in VA when Taylor went missing.

Originally posted by Peace


First off, I've read the article about Sam Forrest and googled it to his picture. It definitely resembles the man I met and I'm totally flabbergasted. I don't see the guy as an artist or a traveler. He led me to believe he had NO money and that one missed/late payment would put him in the poorhouse. I'm left shaking my head once again. This whole case has left me shaking my head too many times.

To answer Poplife - Mike and others moved into the first apartment on Hancock Street. They then moved to a larger place a couple years later. Ben moved out and moved to the upstairs apartment back on Hancock Street.

For some reason, that doesn't surprise me. I've found that people who have money are generally tight with their money - that's why they have it and can travel and stuff.

What is the relevance of this guy to the story?? Other than he was Ben's landlord. I'd like to know about the guy that died and whose computers Ben inherited. Given that they are the ones that allegedly have the kiddie porn.

[protectkidz]

Rowan:

Ben referred to him as "KJ". I haven't found a name.

Okay PK, thank you .. I'll see what I can find. I believe there was reference to him in a couple of the peripheral articles when all this broke. Let me look.

[La_Cavalière]

So is Cesca Janece Waterfield the same girl as Hildybrant? A lot of similariities... computer confiscated by police, writer, Ben's roommate, etc.

Originally posted by La_Cavalière
So is Cesca Janece Waterfield the same girl as Hildybrant? A lot of similariities... computer confiscated by police, writer, Ben's roommate, etc.

no :)

[sunnygirlinva]

I am confused now, so there are two people that were staying and had computers and such stolen

[poplife]

Color me confused too.

So Hildy not roommate that wrote story, yet both claim they stayed there, had computers taken and harassed by FBI. Hildy says it was her blood on his mattress and we know she drove a Honda (prob the keys seized).

[sunnygirlinva]

Originally posted by poplife
Color me confused too.

So Hildy not roommate that wrote story, yet both claim they stayed there, had computers taken and harassed by FBI. Hildy says it was her blood on his mattress and we know she drove a Honda (prob the keys seized).

That was exactly my train of thought and she was in an uproar on her LJ about how she had to up and move again.

[joeb]

This is an excellent article. Thank you Ms. Waterfield. A fine piece of reporting. Well written and objective sticking to the facts as she knows them.
It is chilling to know she was living so close to this creep for two months.
Isnt it nice to know that Ben Fawley is locked up in jail where he can no longer lie to or hurt anyone else.

[singlesix]

Re: Jesse "worked" at the Village

Worked as in 'ever worked there'or worked as in 'worked there at the time Taylor disappeared'?

He wasn't working at the Village when his aunt and uncle's home was searched, etc., etc., etc.

As far as 'did he ever work there?'...not that I've heard, but I haven't asked...want me to ask his aunt and uncle...or him if I see him? :)

This wouldn't fall under that ol' pesky gag order would it? ;)

singlesix

[poplife]

I found this in an old thread about Hildy; somechick claims to know her and this is what she said, http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=242775&perpage=10&pagenumber=3

Hildy didn't live there but left personal items there b/c it was closer to campus than her place. (in so many words!)

[protectkidz]

You could show him the above article, single. Maybe it was reported wrong, or Janet and her lawyer weren't given correct info.

I know that many people have been misrepresented in this cae, and many lives have been adversely affected by the negative publicity. It would help if the public was given the real truth.

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by poplife
I found this in an old thread about Hildy; somechick claims to know her and this is what she said, http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=242775&perpage=10&pagenumber=3

Hildy didn't live there but left personal items there b/c it was closer to campus than her place. (in so many words!)

I understand from reading Hildy's journal that the cops took her laptop. The roommate, Cesca, had a computer (not laptop) taken.

I wonder if Hildy got her laptop back. Hope so, and hope it wasn't broken, like Cesca's was.

[singlesix]

"many lives have been adversely affected"

I know of two who got evicted after the apartment searches and one was arrested for a little coke residue that reportedly wasn't his.

Two more had to pay a lawyer a nice chunk of change to get the police to start being halfway polite. They even told their housepainter to stop work and go away or he was probably going to start getting the third-degree hassle.

I think I'll just leave them be until they can talk about things freely.

singlesix

[protectkidz]

single, you don't have to do anything - I personally do not need to know. I didn't know you knew these people until you mentioned it in your post and asked if you should ask him. Once the trial starts, the facts of the case should speak for themselves.

I realize that many lives were affected - but I've said before and will say again - no lives were more affected than Taylor's and her parent's.

I guess during a police investigation, stuff gets turned inside out, and someone who may have been able to slide with the white powder still on the mirror (if thats what it was), doesn't get so lucky. Life can be very difficult sometime.

For anyone who is reading that may have had their life adversely affected:

Thank you - for going through what you went through, in order for Taylor's body to be found.

:rose: Taylor

Originally posted by Veracity


Great question Rowan -

Early on this guy was portrayed by BEN on HIS ONLINE stuff as the guy in the apartment next door ( or was it upstairs?). Anyway, Ben stated he was asked by the owner who had "issues" about death, to clean out the guys apartment after he died. Ben said he cleaned out dead people's places to suppliment his income. He claimed he moved the stuff from this guy's apartment to his own because of his incredible computer setup and he was in the process of selling off the porn and cleaning up the computer equipment, which he mused he would keep.

The article Single linked claims this guy was Ben's roommate who died creating a vacancy this girl who moved up from Hampton Roads to attend VCU filled! COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!

I wish Mr. Forrest would post - he sent a flaming post to the Times Dispatch about how fooled he was by BEN. He had made Ben his beneficiary supposedly. He would know who lived where!
And after that open letter to the Times Dispatch I don't think he would lift a finger to help Ben!

Protect - His landlord arrived back in Virginia after he was turned away at some border. He arrived back the week Ben was arrrested. I know I linked the Times open letter and the article Single found many moons ago! The landlord was and is a maker of some unique furniture! He is a real artisan. He was going on the Silk Trade Route for inspiration, I think. If memory serves me right, there was a poster who knew Ben's landlord early on on this board and he was very concerned about land that this man owned outside of Richmond and other properties in Richmond too that Ben knew about. This friend had called the police and suggested they take a look at property in ?? County. Oh I can't recall -I sure wish the old pages were easily available! Anyone recall. I will try to find it.

There were posts that said the guy died from AIDS and/or a drug overdose- I remember the name was TJ or JT or KJ - I heard a couple of different initials. I also have written in my notes - who is this guy?

Just another one of those markers that has not been played!

I am definitely with you - I am curious about the "dead guy" too. Afterall, Ben and co. are trying to say all of that porn was his - but if this guy was Ben's roommate, doesn't that up the anty and wasn't the lease for Ben's apartment in Ben's name - doesn't that mean that if the footage of that junk shows a backdrop of an apartment that was BEN'S - then wouldn't that mean he was not only selling porn but producing it too???

Just asking.

Thank you Veracity!! I appreciate the time you put into answering my question.

I was under the impression - and again, that comes from reading so many different things, none of which I can lay my hands on now - that the guy died (I thought he was the upstairs tenant) and BF was asked by the owner to clean out the apartment. In doing so, BF kept the computer(s) on which the kiddie porn was located.

Very very interesting angle, isn't it?

[vedder]

Veracity..

"I am definitely with you - I am curious about the "dead guy" too. Afterall, Ben and co. are trying to say all of that porn was his - but if this guy was Ben's roommate, doesn't that up the anty and wasn't the lease for Ben's apartment in Ben's name - doesn't that mean that if the footage of that junk shows a backdrop of an apartment that was BEN'S - then wouldn't that mean he was not only selling porn but producing it too???"

Very interesting.....do you happen to believe in psychics?

There is a reason I am asking...

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


That's what the story was after fawley was arrested for the porn.

Angel, I meant to tell you .. as far as making the porn stick?

Upon reflection - whether they can prove or not that it belonged to the dead guy originally, the fact that BF was in possession of it makes it a felony. So yeah, I do think now they could make that one stick.

I did some research.

Originally posted by AvengingAngel



Who was he???? Upstairs tenant or roommate????

To my knowledge. BF did NOT live with the dead guy. He cleaned the apartment (which I believe was the upstairs one) out at the landlord's request. That could have been when he lived downstairs with Mike Cino, I don't know.

But NOT roommate. The only roommate I'm aware of is the gal that posted the article.

Does that help? If I'm wrong guys, please correct. Thanks!

[vedder]

Originally posted by Veracity


HUH???

You are talking about the child porn correct?

In early Sept there was a woman posting on RIEHL WORLD,who claimed she was a psychic....

She claimed she had ''spoken" with Taylor....

Taylor had told her that she found out(he had told her) about the kiddie porn, that he was abusing children, that he had had admitted to killing....(among other horrible things..)

Now we all now how much Taylor loved children and she was horrified and told him she was going to go to the police...

Thats when he killed her....

Does anyone remember this....

I sure don't vedder. And while I don't discount psychics by any stretch, this sounds weird.

I've not seen anywhere any recounting of stories that BF was into kiddie porn. I might not have seen all there is to see about, grant you that. But it just sounds kinda fishy.

[vedder]

Originally posted by Rowan Again
I sure don't vedder. And while I don't discount psychics by any stretch, this sounds weird.

I've not seen anywhere any recounting of stories that BF was into kiddie porn. I might not have seen all there is to see about, grant you that. But it just sounds kinda fishy.

You would assume that if one were INTO kiddie porn you would keep it on the down low..no?....Its not something you would bring up at the local bar or coffee shop....

Every day I pick up the paper and some Cop, priest, teacher, boyscout leader etc...is getting busted with KP...Do you think their familys and co-workers have any idea they were "into" kiddie porn...

What made me thing of this was Ben had told his roomate about the kiddie porn.....days before he killed Taylor

BTW, the Laci Peterson psychic was pretty much RIGHT about everything...Months before the found her...

[vedder]

Here it is, I cant believe I found It...


"I have spoken to Taylor's spirt and was told that she found out about the child porn and was going to turn him in. That he would get homeless childern and use them for his porn. He told her that he wanted to confess all to her. He asked her to go to his favorite place so he could speak freely. They took her car and he drove. She said he beat her to death. Because he confessed to several murders,plus everything else he had going on, she told him she had to go to the police. She told me there are several bodies hidden in the woods around where her body was found. She said there were lots of children's spirits in those woods. She said she loved children and could not stand by and not try to do something! She said the guy in jail is the one who killed me. She told me that the dirt from the crime scene will prove his guilt. She also told me that he was growing drugs on the same property. That's all I know at this time...if she visits me again, I will write more. She thanked me for listening to the one's who have no voice. I'm a psychic medium"

[nibblet]

Originally posted by AvengingAngel
Thanks singlesix.

One thing that strikes me is that she was one of the first people to see fawley after the murder. And all fawley had was a pain in his belly? No scratches? No bruises at all? No marks?
Little ben fawley had no marks on him? Just a belly pain? That just seems strange to me.

I also feel for his daughters, once again. I feel so bad for them and can't believe that some cro-mag would threaten them.

Ok, I've been busy at work and wanting to respond but had to get stuff done so please excuse me if I respond to things that have already been addressed.

If BF had his hands around Taylor's neck, I would imagine she would be fighting to get his hands off of her neck so she could breathe. The intensity of his anger could have caused her death quickly - let's hope this didn't last long - so I wouldn't expect to see scratches on his face, if indeed this were the case.

If he weren't choking her, I would expect a good fight with both hands and feet causing scratches and bruising.

It would also explain the pain in his stomach as she kneed and kicked him powerfully hard.

And for the little girls, he had their unconditional love and still destroyed their lives.

[nibblet]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


ITA, Vedder!

BF exhibits the hallmark signs of a sociopath, i.e., failure to take responsibility, pathological lying, lack of emotion, lack of remorse, etc, etc.

Boy, if there were ever suspicions of a sociopath, this just adds to it.

[nibblet]

Originally posted by Rowan Again


I'm interested in what you think happened from 10:20 p.m. to the arrival in Mathews. In other words, do you think that he took her off the street and forced her to let him drive her car? If so, why is there no one in a busy college town, on a night when students are returning at all hours, who can say that they saw this? Or do you think there IS someone and it's being kept on the QT?



If they were corresponding via IM or email over the summer, why would he snatch her off the street? I think he saw her going to her car, approached her, gave her some story and they took off.

My question has always been what did he say to her to get her to drive to Mathews?

Recently, the question of did he actually have a roommate at the time of Taylor's disappearance came up again. Now that has been confirmed. I thought the article was well-written; the picture of the roommate looks like someone he would have gone after. I am glad the FBI told her to get out of the apartment immediately.

Cesca defines some of the timeline and why BF had said that he and Taylor had sex earlier in the day when in fact, Taylor had been in No Virginia and travelling back. Cesca left for work at 4:30; Taylor didn't get back to Richmond until the 6:00 timeframe; had dinner at the cafe - oops, story needs to change.

Cesca doesn't say when she came back to the apartment; I would guess sometime within an hour/hour and a half after midnight. This may push me to think this did happen away from Richmond unless it happened at a site other than his apartment - like perhaps a vacant apartment he was watching for his landlord; if one was vacant.

[nibblet]

Originally posted by vedder


I believe she got home after the bar closed, messed with her PC for an hour or so and than went to bed...

It would have taking less than an hour to do what he did...

I believe it happened in his apartment because HE THANKED HER for NOT being there...

Thank you, vedder, for reminding me that whenever BF says something, there is some twisted element of whatever happened embedded in whatever he is spewing...

There was time for BF having intentions that Taylor did not want resulting in a heinous crime. He was in a great mood - on an uplift, then he is rejected and goes immediately into his dark mood.

I also believe Cesca came home when the bar closed - a new college student working for her money.

[protectkidz]

The article by Cesca says that Ben had tons of porn tapes that he was going to sell on Ebay - but no mention of kiddie porn. The kiddie porn that was found was inside the computer. My thinking is that Ben didn't know it was there. He was not as much of a "computer geek", as he thought he was.

The lines for Ben were blurred - he was inappropriate in many ways - almost as if his social skills were very immature. Such as posing his daughter in an outfit similar to what Britney Spears wore in very sexy vid.

JMO

[vedder]

Originally posted by protectkidz
The article by Cesca says that Ben had tons of porn tapes that he was going to sell on Ebay - but no mention of kiddie porn. The kiddie porn that was found was inside the computer. My thinking is that Ben didn't know it was there. He was not as much of a "computer geek", as he thought he was.

The lines for Ben were blurred - he was inappropriate in many ways - almost as if his social skills were very immature. Such as posing his daughter in an outfit similar to what Britney Spears wore in very sexy vid.

JMO

"ILLEGAL" porn = kiddy porn

He knew it was there...

Thats all he did all day, mess around with his PC's....it was one of the things he was good at...

[nibblet]

Originally posted by protectkidz

I'm wondering where he left Taylor's car.

PK

I'm wondering if any of the rentals that the landlord owned while BF was "watching" them while he was gone had a place to hide a car.

[vedder]

Pk..

"My thinking is that Ben didn't know it was there"



He told his roomate that the illegal porn was the dead guys...

He absolutely knew it was there...

He has said many times the kiddy porn was not his, it was left with him....he just didn't get rid of it...

This is common knowledge

[nibblet]

Originally posted by TN_Profiler
Unless he was merely trying to establish that he had sexual contact with her.

By telling other people this story ..... the possibility that it could be corroborated increased.

Yes, there can be many angles with this type of statement but I do hesitate to accept anything Benny-boy has said as being the gospel.

One thing I thought of when I read the article was how easily he slips into his surroundings. Within hours of killing a person he calmly goes about his life stopping only to complain that he has some discomfort.

Sheesh, what a guy.

Everything he has said has been a cover up of one kind or the other.

I have always wondered, why did a HISPANIC guy conveniently pick him up? So he could say that he couldn't speak English or he couldn't understand his English?

In the article, Cesca says, "I’d asked him if he could remember something distinctive about their speech — accents, impediments, anything? “No,” he said, whimpering, still clutching his gut. “I was in shock.” "

OOOOOh, better include that in my story....a Hispanic guy - an accent...

[vedder]

Originally posted by nibblet


I'm wondering if any of the rentals that the landlord owned while BF was "watching" them while he was gone had a place to hide a car.

Hey Nib...

The car really bothers me..

I really do believe he had some kid helping him with the "damage control'' afterwards..how or why, I do not know

[vedder]

Originally posted by nibblet


Everything he has said has been a cover up of one kind or the other.

I have always wondered, why did a HISPANIC guy conveniently pick him up? So he could say that he couldn't speak English or he couldn't understand his English?

In the article, Cesca says, "I’d asked him if he could remember something distinctive about their speech — accents, impediments, anything? “No,” he said, whimpering, still clutching his gut. “I was in shock.” "

OOOOOh, better include that in my story....a Hispanic guy - an accent...

OH.....LOL Nib...

Good catch....Never even thought of that....Very nice..

[nibblet]

Originally posted by Rowan Again


See, I'm not sure of that :) Ben Fawley is a sociopath. A chameleon. He will fit into whatever scenario he thinks will be to his advantage.

I'm just not certain that anything he says or said can be taken at face value!

I do know that there is what .. one person who says that he was violent with them? A female? That I find more credible in terms of judging his potential for violence then his journals.

From Wikipedia:
-
Antisocial personality disorder (APD or ASPD) is a psychiatric diagnosis that interprets antisocial and impulsive behaviours as symptoms of a personality disorder. Psychiatry defines only pathological antisocial behavior; it does not address potential benefits of positive antisocial behavior or define the meaning of 'social' in contrast to 'antisocial'.

Professional psychiatry generally compares APD to sociopathic disorders and psychopathic disorders (not to be confused with psychosis). Approximately 3% of men and 1% of women are thought to have some form of antisocial personality disorder according to DSM-IV.

Antisocial personality disorder and the closely related construct of psychopathy can be assessed and diagnosed through clinical interview, self-rating personality surveys, and ratings from coworkers and family. For diagnosing psychopathy in forensic male populations, the Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R) is considered definitive.

[edit]
Diagnostic criteria (DSM-IV-TR)
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental and behavioral disorders (see also: DSM cautionary statement), defines antisocial personality disorder as a pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain steady work or honor financial obligations
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another
The manual lists the following additional necessary criteria:

- The individual is at least age 18 years.
- There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.
- The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia or a Manic Episode.

[nibblet]

Originally posted by vedder


He didn't want to kill Erin because he loved her and had hopes of getting back together with her...

He took out all the rage he had for Erin out on Taylor...Like Paula said ,when he was killing Taylor, his mind was really Killing Erin

Are you starting to see how SICK this idiot really was?

I agree with what your are saying but we will never know what would have happened had Jonathan Delano not stopped BF when he broke into Erin's and Jonathan's apartment with mace and a hammer....

That moment of rage existed prior to killing Taylor.

[nibblet]

Originally posted by Rowan Again
I can see the displacement of anger, yes.

But I also see that his "art" being used without permission seems to be as big (if not bigger) emotional trigger than losing Erin.

Rowan, I think his art being used without permission became the excuse. His history of enragement comes from rejection from females. That has the more powerful emotional trigger.

IMO

[nibblet]

Originally posted by vedder


Hey Nib...

The car really bothers me..

I really do believe he had some kid helping him with the "damage control'' afterwards..how or why, I do not know

I've said on this site a few times that I don't know what cars are parked outside my home.

But, a guy who was moving in/out that one weekend noticed that he had to park the moving truck in the same location of the car to move the furniture. Gives more credence to what vehicles were in that spot a few days prior to being found...

[nibblet]

Originally posted by Peace
I wonder if it's possible - well, I suppose anything is possible - that Ben handcuffed Taylor somehow and she kicked him in the stomach? I don't recall whether we know for a fact that there were cuts on his face or whether that was speculation.

Peace - as horrible as it appears to me - and I hated writing this earlier, I feel that the reason BF didn't have scratch marks on this face was due to the fact that Tayor was trying to pull his hands off her neck. If her hands are trying to pull his hands off her neck, then she had to have been using her legs and body to kick and push as hard as possible thus injuring him in his abdomen. I only wish she had won the fight.

[vedder]

Originally posted by nibblet


I agree with what your are saying but we will never know what would have happened had Jonathan Delano not stopped BF when he broke into Erin's and Jonathan's apartment with mace and a hammer....

That moment of rage existed prior to killing Taylor.


I believe it was not about Erin that nite, it was about Jonathan

He had believed Jonathan was Erins new love interest...

He did not go near Erins bedroom, he went straight to Jonathans

He said "he needed to talk with him"

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by vedder
Pk..

"My thinking is that Ben didn't know it was there"



He told his roomate that the illegal porn was the dead guys...

He absolutely knew it was there...

He has said many times the kiddy porn was not his, it was left with him....he just didn't get rid of it...

This is common knowledge

Vedder:

from the article that Cesca wrote, I didn't notice that she said that Ben mentioned that it was "illegal" - just that it was hardcore porn and he went to great lengths to make sure that she understood he would never, ever let it get into the hands of children. She never mentioned kiddy porn (of course I could be wrong - I have been before, lol). I also have a really hard time with Ben (even tho he wasn't exactly Einstein) thinking he could get away with selling child porn on Ebay.

Regarding the psychic stuff - vedder, with all of my heart, I wish that stuff was true. But if it was - Taylor, Jessica, Samantha, Danielle, Tara, ...the list goes on and on...they would have been found alive. I've also been of the belief that people should never be so arrogant to believe that they know it all - and what is in front of them is all there is. But I've talked to the parents of murdered children, and if there are psychics - these parents would not be suffering today over the loss of their children.

Go ahead, vedder - change my mind.

PK

[nibblet]

Originally posted by vedder



I believe it was not about Erin that nite, it was about Jonathan

He had believed Jonathan was Erins new love interest...

He did not go near Erins bedroom, he went straight to Jonathans

He said "he needed to talk with him"

I know it was first written that people originally thought that Jonathan was Erin's boyfriend until Jonathan set that straight.

I didn't know that BF headed for Jonathan's bedroom first...I know they talked that night and when BF broke in, Erin was asleep. Thanks to Peace for getting that info.

[nibblet]

Originally posted by Veracity


Ben was a biker - he also skateboarded alot - supposedly. If true, his legs would have been conditioned. ...

I tend to think like vedder that he was a ticking bomb.

Good point. Lifting is also in the legs and lower back. According to Cesca's article, he didn't seem to have a problem lifting the computer box into the car with his abdomen ailment - a few days after the fact...

[nibblet]

Originally posted by Peace
Hi, Vedder - I'm fine, thanks for asking. I've not been hiding just very busy so I haven't been the board much.

Veracity - I do not believe the apartment owner was in Asia - he didn't have a lot of money. Where did you hear that Ben was the property manager? ...


I also did not get the sense at all that the woman who wrote the article was a friend of Ben's. She rented a room from him based on an ad he'd placed on the board.

The apartment owner had an aborted trip to Asia and returned much earlier than anticipated.

I agree, Cesca wasn't a "Ben friend" but a person who rented a room from him for only a month and a half at the most.

[vedder]

Originally posted by protectkidz


Vedder:

from the article that Cesca wrote, I didn't notice that she said that Ben mentioned that it was "illegal" - just that it was hardcore porn and he went to great lengths to make sure that she understood he would never, ever let it get into the hands of children. She never mentioned kiddy porn (of course I could be wrong - I have been before, lol). I also have a really hard time with Ben (even tho he wasn't exactly Einstein) thinking he could get away with selling child porn on Ebay.

Regarding the psychic stuff - vedder, with all of my heart, I wish that stuff was true. But if it was - Taylor, Jessica, Samantha, Danielle, Tara, ...the list goes on and on...they would have been found alive. I've also been of the belief that people should never be so arrogant to believe that they know it all - and what is in front of them is all there is. But I've talked to the parents of murdered children, and if there are psychics - these parents would not be suffering today over the loss of their children.

Go ahead, vedder - change my mind.

PK

PK,
Quote from roomate...

"He alluded to “illegal” porn left behind by the deceased man and said he’d destroyed it all."

Its right in the article kiddo...


As far as the psychic stuff goes...they would NOT have been found alive, they didn't fall in a hole, they were MURDERED !!

But if they can help FIND the body afterwards...God bless them...

[nibblet]

Originally posted by Veracity


Isn't there an alley beside the apartment building too? Remember the dumpster shots of Ben and ?? some girl throwing a bunch of big black garbage bags in the dumpster while the TV and Newspaper people all took pictures? Didn't he take photos of that VAN in that alley too?



Whoa, never heard about this before - was this shown in Richmond as I don't recall seeing this in the D.C. area.

[nibblet]

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


Big difference between a computer box and a dead body.

I'm not being cold but he would have taken more care with the computer box. With Taylor, he had no care for her life, so why in how he disposed of her?

[nibblet]

I'm not being cold but he would have taken more care with the computer box. With Taylor, he had no care for her life, so why would he have cared how he disposed of her?

If this occured in Ricmond, how do we know that he didn't use a rug or big blanket to carry her our and then take it back with him when he returned to Richmond?

The trash bag could have been used to prevent strands of her hair from appearing on his blanket/rug.

[nibblet]

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


No no, I was referring to any injury suffered in the fight. A computer box weighs far less than the body. The injury he suffered in the fight couldn't have been too severe because he had to struggle with the body. A dead body isn't an easy thing to deal with. It's awkward.

oh, ok - I'm stil about 8 pages behind in reading so I am switching back and forth between reading old posts and reading what is new.....

[vedder]

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


No no, I was referring to any injury suffered in the fight. A computer box weighs far less than the body. The injury he suffered in the fight couldn't have been too severe because he had to struggle with the body. A dead body isn't an easy thing to deal with. It's awkward.

I don't think there was much of a fight, he had to of attacked her in a way she could NOT fight back ( ie; bag over head, handcuffs etc)

Because, honestly, If it was an actual ''fight"...I think she would have kicked his ***...My girl Taylor looked like a very strong and healthy kid...

He pulled his stomach muscle when he was removing her body...

[nibblet]

Originally posted by AvengingAngel



I think nibblet should go back through EVERYTHING and summarize for us all the known facts.

Go to it, nibblet :)

LOL!! Just got to this post! I'm trying!;)

[nibblet]

Originally posted by Rowan



BTW, please note new nick. After 3 years, this one is finally available again. Just letting you know :)

no longer a senior member - no Rowan Again?

[nibblet]

finally caught up. worn out. gone to bed. half asleep already ;)

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by vedder


PK,
Quote from roomate...

"He alluded to “illegal” porn left behind by the deceased man and said he’d destroyed it all."

Its right in the article kiddo...


As far as the psychic stuff goes...they would NOT have been found alive, they didn't fall in a hole, they were MURDERED !!

But if they can help FIND the body afterwards...God bless them...

Could it be possible that he didn't know there was stuff in the computer? My DH is a computer god, and is able to find all kinds of stuff that people think they have deleted. Ben, for all of his bravado, truly didn't know that much about computers. And, from all that I've heard of Ben, I haven't heard that he was into child porn. Ben was an open book. All you had to do was read his online journals and you knew everything about him. I know that most will agree - so many knew beyond a shadow that he was responsible for Taylor being missing and most probably not alive, way before he was arrested and she was found.

As far as the other - Jessica was alive for awhile. I know that Mark had psychics coming out of the woodwork. After it was all over, I went over what each had to say. None of them were right about where Jess had been, and what had been done to her. Totally destroyed any ideas I had in psychic abilities.

Do you really think that what this psychic said could be true? That Ben murdered children and they are buried where Taylor was found? If this is true, then somebody needs to do something.

[vedder]

Originally posted by protectkidz


Could it be possible that he didn't know there was stuff in the computer? My DH is a computer god, and is able to find all kinds of stuff that people think they have deleted. Ben, for all of his bravado, truly didn't know that much about computers. And, from all that I've heard of Ben, I haven't heard that he was into child porn. Ben was an open book. All you had to do was read his online journals and you knew everything about him. I know that most will agree - so many knew beyond a shadow that he was responsible for Taylor being missing and most probably not alive, way before he was arrested and she was found.

As far as the other - Jessica was alive for awhile. I know that Mark had psychics coming out of the woodwork. After it was all over, I went over what each had to say. None of them were right about where Jess had been, and what had been done to her. Totally destroyed any ideas I had in psychic abilities.

Do you really think that what this psychic said could be true? That Ben murdered children and they are buried where Taylor was found? If this is true, then somebody needs to do something.

Pk

He knew the kiddy porn was there, Trust me....Again,he told the roomate about it...ITS RIGHT THERE IN THE ARTICLE,LOL and it is common knowlege that he knew it was there,he said it was the dead guys and he just did not get rid of it...

I don't know what else to tell ya

Do you ever hear that anyone is "into" kiddy porn?..NO,not until they get BUSTED....Did ya think everyone was going to start
coming out of the woodwork claiming"Yea,Ben was really,really into child porn!!"..KP is is a deep dark secret to these pervs and something they would keep very much to THEMSELVES...( Im talking in general here,not just BF)

I just thought the"Psychic Taylor post" was interesting,Thats all...
I never said I thought it was true....Though,I CAN tell ya, the one that was involved with Laci Peterson was correct about EVERYTHING she said...It will give you chills....If you have time, look up"Laci Peterson psychic" read what she wrote,look at the date...SHE found Laci 2 Months before LE did

Do I believe in psychics?...I dont know....I DO know that the 'Laci psychic' has a gift none of us have...THAT I do know...

[vedder]

Pk

Let me make this clear..

I am NOT saying I think BF was INTO kiddy porn...I AM saying he DID KNOW that it was on one of the PC's he had in his house...

He said it was left to him and he never bothered to get rid of it...

As a matter of fact, This is the ONE and only thing, I DON'T think he is lying about....


Have to get some sleep now

vedder

[joeb]

If T left her dorm at 1030pm to go out for 3 hours where was she going? She had her car keys with her. Where was she going?

[TN_Profiler]

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


I don't remember her saying that she was going out for 3 hours (unless I missed that also:confused: ).

I thought she was just going out for a while so that her roommate could have some quality time with her boyfriend............?

Yes, she was leaving as a courtesy for her roommate but where she was going is something that can only be speculated at this point.

The fact she had her car keys is not indicative that she intended to drive. The key chain could have included a key to the dorm or she could have only intended to retrieve something from her car, hence the uncertainty.

Since her car was parked next to Ben's apartment, I do believe that was the point their paths intersected. Not sure whether they met accidently on the street or if she decided to drop by his apartment but I doubt they met in some other part of the city.

There are plenty of things college students do in the late hours of an evening that adults typically do at an early time .... (shopping, eating, cruising, laundry, gym etc..) Heading out at 10 pm is not "highly unusual" in my eyes.

[protectkidz]

I was under the impression that when she left the dorm, she told her dormmate that she would be back in a few hours - to me that does mean around 3 hours. I, too, would like to know what she had in mind to do that night to pass those hours til she could go back to her dorm.

[joeb]

This is from the Richmond Times Dispatch story by Jim Nolan when they were first looking for her.
" The brown-haired, 5-foot, 6-inch, 135-pound Behl was last seen by her roommate around 10:20 p.m. on Labor Day. She had returned to Richmond after spending the end of the holiday weekend at her mother's home in Vienna, and had stopped at the home of her father before heading to school. Both parents say she called them between 6 and 7 p.m. to say she had returned safely to school.

Family members and officials involved in the investigation believe Behl met up with a friend and later had dinner with a former boyfriend and fellow VCU student at the Village Café, a popular grunge bar at Harrison and West Grace streets, also on the north end of the Monroe Park campus.

VCU police said that when Behl returned to her room at the Gladding Residence Center, her roommate was with her boyfriend. She decided to leave to give them some privacy, reportedly promising to return in three hours.

Police believe she left the building with her student I.D., cell phone, some cash and the keys to her 1997 white Ford Escort."
Where was she going for 3 hours? At 10:20pm at night.
Where do you think she was going?

[vedder]

Originally posted by Peace


I've often wondered if she didn't figure on hanging out at Ben's house figuring he'd be up at that hour. I realize that there have been many accounts that she wasn't interested in him any longer, but it may have seemed like an okay place to hang out. Perhaps Ben took it the wrong way and thought she was there because she was interested in more than a place to hang out. I've also often wondered if we'll ever know the truth.

Or maybe she DID plan on going skateboarding and just wanted to borrow a board...

I can't even recall how the skateboard theory got started...

I do know that I read about it many times...

Peace??

[vedder]

Originally posted by Peace



Ah, Vedder - I'd forgotten the skateboard - not sure how. I remember Ben writing something about missing his skateboard that was borrowed by a friend and that was when Taylor disappeared amongst early reports that she was meeting friends to go skateboarding. Ben's livejournal the week Taylor disappeared. I'm sure that's where I read about the skateboard being borrowed.

It's possible that she would still hang out with him (or go to borrow the skateboard) even feeling uncomfortable. I recall doing similar things when I was her age. Someone made me feel uncomfortable but I didn't want them to feel bad or thought it was something wrong with me. Perhaps Taylor's feelings were similar.

Yes, thats right

Bf had written that he had "lost a skateboard" right after Taylor was 'lost'....

But wasn't it also something that her roomate said?

Or was it something that was just assumed,because she had gone out to late night skate before?

I do recall hearing 'skatboard' MANY times in the begining, than it just,sorta went away...

Bf may have convinced her that "everything was cool" and they would just be "friends", in that case....she would not feel the need to be uncomfortable...

[nibblet]

Originally posted by Peace


I've often wondered if she didn't figure on hanging out at Ben's house figuring he'd be up at that hour. I realize that there have been many accounts that she wasn't interested in him any longer, but it may have seemed like an okay place to hang out. Perhaps Ben took it the wrong way and thought she was there because she was interested in more than a place to hang out. I've also often wondered if we'll ever know the truth.

Peace - don't you think she would go visit with Mike before BF? Especially if they hadn't seen much of each other since she arrived at school?

[nibblet]

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


Thank you, joeb..............dang it all, I didn't remember that she said "three hours".........I started searching in crime library and then ended up in google...........then saw your post..........I think she went to fawley's......either to kill time or whatever........

Was there a time for the dorm doors to be locked and she would have had to go through a different door?

Ages ago when I went to JMU, we had RAs who sat at the front desk until a certain time. We could then enter the normal doors. But after a certain time, the doors were locked and we had to go through a single point of entry with a key.

Maybe that's what caused her to say 3 hours...

[vedder]

Originally posted by nibblet


Was there a time for the dorm doors to be locked and she would have had to go through a different door?

Ages ago when I went to JMU, we had RAs who sat at the front desk until a certain time. We could then enter the normal doors. But after a certain time, the doors were locked and we had to go through a single point of entry with a key.

Maybe that's what caused her to say 3 hours...

Was it ever confirmed that she actually said "3 hours?''...That Taylor gave her a SPECIFIC number?

I had thought the roomate said,Taylor said a "few hours"...

[vedder]

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


That's what it said in the Richmond Times Dispatch.

I found out the same thing via google.

It's funny though, because I just never remembered that she said a specific number of hours.

It appears that many of the little 'details' like this(time, skateboard etc...) had changed over the course of time...

I guess you would have to expect that...

[protectkidz]

Crime Library has "a few hours", Dan Riehl has "3 hours" in one post, and "a few hours" in another!

To me, it doesn't really matter which she said - what matters more to me was that she thought she would be back inside of 3 hours.

If she had chosen to go to Mathews - the timeline would've been tight. I'm sure she had planned to just hang out (maybe back at The Village Cafe?) until she had felt that they had had enough time alone.

I really wish that the boyfriend had left, and Taylor had stayed in that night - I know everyone wishes that. Not blaming, because of course how on earth would any of them have known what was to take place?

[protectkidz]

I'm sure you've all read this, but here it is again:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031785209235

vedder - note the reference to skateboarding.

[justathoughtdj]

Originally posted by vedder


You are talking about the child porn correct?

In early Sept there was a woman posting on RIEHL WORLD,who claimed she was a psychic....

She claimed she had ''spoken" with Taylor....

Taylor had told her that she found out(he had told her) about the kiddie porn, that he was abusing children, that he had had admitted to killing....(among other horrible things..)

Now we all now how much Taylor loved children and she was horrified and told him she was going to go to the police...

Thats when he killed her....

Does anyone remember this....

I do remember this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I thought that is was someone just joking and poking fun at all of the situation. I never believed it. In fact I posted back and forth with the person because they went so far as to say that BTK and a few other serial killers were in the conversation with this person too. So I asked were Ted Bundy was at.

I don't think they were serious at all. I think they were killing time and filling space.

[justathoughtdj]

Originally posted by Peace


I remember this pretty well. I believe this person was absolutely serious because I recall her getting pretty upset about it all at one time that somebody was making fun of her (I don't know that it was you, though). I also recall Dan Riehl booted her off. I think that was the same person. I can't recall her screen name.

OK was this the same person that said they were going to zone in on BTK and ask him about it and was talking about the other serial killers that they talk too. Or was that someone poking fun at her and that is where I came in? I don't remember the post that you posted I remember the ones that were totally off the wall.

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by justathoughtdj


I do remember this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I thought that is was someone just joking and poking fun at all of the situation. I never believed it. In fact I posted back and forth with the person because they went so far as to say that BTK and a few other serial killers were in the conversation with this person too. So I asked were Ted Bundy was at.

I don't think they were serious at all. I think they were killing time and filling space.

I remember that too, and remember thinking that it had to be an inside joke amongst the regular commenters of the blog.

[vedder]

Originally posted by protectkidz


I remember that too, and remember thinking that it had to be an inside joke amongst the regular commenters of the blog.

I don't recall anyone making jokes about ANYTHING at that point.

Nothing very funny about missing and murdered children...

[protectkidz]

They were bantering back and forth, and someone said "yeah, and BTK was there, too" or something to that affect.

What they were talking about didn't seem to me to have anything to do with Taylor - but it did seem like they were joking around. I didn't hang out long enough to read all the comments.

And, no - there is absolutely nothing funny about missing and murdered children. But there are people who go on blogs or boards and post some kind of nonsense, then they are gone. That was what it looked like to me.

:shrug:

[justathoughtdj]

The jokes were more recent than that and they were not jokes about anything dealing with Taylor or the case. They were joking about channeling the old serial kills. As I said before they were not the same as what was posted about Taylor.

I have looked for the posts but I can't seem to find them now. But the joke was doing the channeling not about a person.

And Vedder no one said that what happened to Taylor was anything to joke about. Either re read what was written or chill a little bit.

[vedder]

Originally posted by justathoughtdj
The jokes were more recent than that and they were not jokes about anything dealing with Taylor or the case. They were joking about channeling the old serial kills. As I said before they were not the same as what was posted about Taylor.

I have looked for the posts but I can't seem to find them now. But the joke was doing the channeling not about a person.

And Vedder no one said that what happened to Taylor was anything to joke about. Either re read what was written or chill a little bit.

1. I never said that they did...

2. Read my second sentance again...this time very,very softly...almost to yourself...that is what I intended...

Peace understood....

[vedder]

Originally posted by Peace


Whew! Thank goodness for that! I don't think I could stand being dumped back into the hot water! ;) :chicken:


I think we're all on the same page in wanting justice for Taylor and we just have to leave it in the hands of the court system. We have to have faith and trust that what was meant to be will be.

You knew exactly what I meant peace...

But I have NO idea what you meant in your last post LOL

[vedder]

Originally posted by Peace


:lol: don't worry, Vedder - I frequently get a lot of blank stares from people. Until they get to know me (and I'm pretty much an open book) then they just know where I'm coming from.

What I want to know is, how that sentance got an "Amen" from you but completely offended another person??

Can someone show me how to write a whisper?

[vedder]

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


........pssst ..............and speak in small letters

I had to get my bifocals to even read that!

I said "whisper"...not super tiny letters LOL

[bleibtreu]

Originally posted by protectkidz
The girl that roomed with Ben? She is a big mystery because I have never heard her name before and I've been very involved in this from the beginning. She's kept very quiet, and now is writing an article? With her three names? Hmmm....She's actually a fairly well known musician in the area, as well as a freelance writer. "Her three names?" From what I've seen that's what she tends to use as her byline as a writer. In music listings, it's usually just her first and last name.

As for being a mystery, remember that the only reason so much is known about "hildy" and Cino is because they blog about everything that happens to them. Waterfield apparently does not.

[Belsma]

V-is your name Robert?

[vedder]

Originally posted by Peace



You're right, it is scary, Angel. You never know what scum might be reading your posts anymore.

Did you guys see that msnbc special on ONLINE PREDATORS?

It was horrifying....Preying on what they thought were 12 and 13 year old children....actually showing up at the house thinking the were going to have sex with them...

It was teachers, cops, actors...A couple of dudes had even admitted to watching the previous shows...AND THEY STILL SHOWED UP....

I could not believe how STUPID these guys are...stupid and SICK

Taylor was only a couple years older than the children they were preying on...thats why in my eyes she was still a CHILD...

What is wrong with the world today?

[vedder]

Originally posted by Peace


It is pretty sad, Vedder, you're absolutely right. Sometimes we have to blunder forward with nothing but faith. Someone once told me that everyone lives in denial because everytime you get behind the wheel of your car and drive beside a tractor trailer truck, you've got to be in denial or you'd never leave your house. There IS a lot wrong with this world, Vedder, but there's a lot RIGHT, too. We can't lose sight of that.

Peace

We are supposed to love, hug, nurture and PROTECT our children...NOT want to have sex with them...not want to rape them or kill them...I just DON'T understand...

The internet is a wonderful place...its one of the greatest inventions EVER...It is also a sick, sick breeding ground for child rapists and murders...

EVERY nite I turn on the news,and I mean EVERY nite...another pretty,young girl is missing or murdered.

Socrates once said "You can tell so much about a society,by how the men treat their woman and children"

Every nite I am ashamed of my gender...

[vedder]

Originally posted by Peace


Oh yeah, but can you imagine trying to defend him? No contest there. Caught red-handed. I'd like to see him explain that.

Don't worry,They will replay it 20 times over the next month

I love that...

[vedder]

Originally posted by Peace


It's the old saying that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

I never understood this quote..

Who the hell ever wants to catch flies??? LOL

I hear ya Peace...Thanks

I am just so tired of these idiots hurting and killing young woman and children...

The show mentioned that it is ONLY men that do this..NEVER woman....

Leave the children alone...

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by bleibtreu
She's actually a fairly well known musician in the area, as well as a freelance writer. "Her three names?" From what I've seen that's what she tends to use as her byline as a writer. In music listings, it's usually just her first and last name.

As for being a mystery, remember that the only reason so much is known about "hildy" and Cino is because they blog about everything that happens to them. Waterfield apparently does not.

I was under the impression from the article that her name was "Waterfeld". When I googled her I did find a musical artist by the name of "Cesca", and also some other stuff from Cesca Waterfield. Wasn't sure if it's the same person - but the person who wrote the article about her days as BF's roommate sounded like such an interesting person. I'd like to know more about her and how she is doing now.

[protectkidz]

After reading the last couple of pages of posts (took the day off to spend with my family) I feel I have to say something, at the risk of offending. I'm sorry if my views p.o. anyone - I care about each of you individually (peeparoo, we've had our differences, but I value so much your input):

Online journals are UNSAFE. They invite people (STRANGERS) to view your innermost thoughts and/or your communications with your friends. People don't realize it, but YES you can be traced by your computer - almost to the exact location, and definitely if someone cared enough to track your habits and hangouts.

They are accessible to anyone with a computer.

They are a playground for pedophiles and predators.

Peace, come on - let's get real. I care very much about you and your son. But Mike would not have felt the constant stress that he's felt if he didn't have an online journal.

The problems with these journals is that: friends are connected to friends that are connected to friends that are...and so on.

Taylor had people on hers. When we went on we were connected to her friends. Then through those friends, we were connected to their friends, and so on.

I don't know about you all, but I really would rather keep my day-to-day activities and thoughts to myself, with my parents and friends involved.

Online journals seem benign to the younger set - but I can so clearly see the dangers, not to mention aggravation, of having millions of people with access to the person that you are.

Hope I didn't offend - I realize it's the "in" thing right now to have a journal - but it's hard for me, with the work I do in my real life, to not see the negatives.

PK

PS. For any that are offended by my words, I write this in love to those who have posted journals, and have been hurt.

[Hey Paula]

Hi PK!

Great post, and one that I wholeheartedly agree with.

I can recall, in Oprah Winfrey's earlier shows, how her audience was encouraged to keep a journal. However, the journals were intended for self-therapy, not for public consumption.

The LJ sites bear the souls of the authors, exposing their frailties and insecurities to those who would prey upon them, and manipulate them. Hence, they are postively UNSAFE.

IMO

[vedder]

Originally posted by Peace
You know, as I sit here thinking about the cycle this board seems to go in, it's depressing. It seems that whenever news slows down, people seek to dredge up news. I'm reading on Riehl World (which was brought to my attention - I try to avoid the tabloids) the some people seem to now be judging Matt Behl. I think that's reprehensible. The man has enough grief right now. And Mike's name comes back into it. There are too many people who are too quick to judge others and I think you're doing what you accuse Mike of doing. You're making it a public forum. On these boards, what's written IS intended for the general public and I feel people need to be more considerate of others whose lives have to go on.

I also started thinking of the people who pushed and pushed for Mike to make some sort of admission that his lifestyle was wrong or his post was wrong or something was wrong. So, I wondered, is that what you want me to do? I'm slow. Do I agree with the LiveJournals and what they post? I think they have their own place, but I think they need to be careful - just like posters on this board - with what they write. Some things are better left unsaid. But, no, I do NOT believe they write their journals for people like us - the general public.

Vedder, you mentioned on Riehl World that you think that the weekend that Taylor stayed with Mike and his roommates was a catalyst. I suppose I'm too much of a fatalist, but I believe it started much before that. Things set them up in a domino fashion of reaction. At least, that's what I believe.

This makes me a bit more sympathetic to reporters with their posts on a slow news day.

What I am saying is, that had Taylors parents KNOWN that BF was 38 years old, THEY never,ever would have let Taylor stay there that weekend(BOTH parents had stated this MANY times)...Which in turn,COULD have changed everything...

[joeb]

Thanks Rowan for your post. You say it so well. I really wish people would get off Peace's case and Mike's too.
On line journals are here to stay. For you older folks can you remember all the hell that was raised back in the 1950's about Rock and Roll and how it was going to be the end of civilization?
Well we lived through Rock and Roll and the Beat Generation and the Hippies and now we have a new generation. So what?

[joeb]

Just think how many kids are staying out of trouble by being on the computer. It keeps them off the street and out of trouble.
It even keeps the trouble makers off the streets. I think that is a good thing.
Rowan: you make a great point about the value of communicating for young people. I would guess there are many older people around who really wish we had had this internet when we were teenagers and in college.
I really enjoy seeing young people on computers with all the world's knowledge at their fingertips. And when I think back to how teachers used to have so much trouble getting kids to even go to the library.
From what I have read on some of the Journals I see the kids using them for self expression and self examination. Whats wrong with that?

[joeb]

V: I agree with all you say. And I am personally very glad that our kids were grown and gone off into the real world before these on line journals began. I just wonder how parents can possibly monitor and control kids who have computers at home,at the library, and at school. The computers here in Northern Virginia at the public libraries do not have any filters on them as far as I know.
It really made me mad that the 9-11 terrorists used FREE library computers in Fairfax County, Va. to communicate among themselves prior to 9-11. And at that time they did not even have to have a library card to use the computers. Now I believe users of library computers in this area must have a valid library card or in the case of a Fla. Library we went to a valid picture ID(like a drivers license). My point is as far as I know none of these libraries filter anything. Do the school computers have filters of some sort? I surely hope so.

[vedder]

Originally posted by Rowan


Of course you're entitled to your comments :) And, for the record, I am female and no relation at all to anyone in this story.

Why is it hard to believe though that the loss of Ben might mean more to Mike then the loss of Taylor in HIS life?

From what I understand, Mike and Taylor were acquaintances, not "friends". Ben and Mike were friends. Before this all happened, however, there was a falling out between Mike and Ben. So the "loss" of Ben's friendship may well have been a greater blow to Mike than the loss of Taylor.

Please don't misunderstand me. There is no comparison between Taylor's death and the loss of a friendship. But to Mike, I am quite certain that he was speaking only what he felt. And while you might find it "distasteful", it shouldn't really be judged. We aren't him. We can't communicate FOR him.

It is really hard for most to empathize with anyone in this story except for Janet and Taylor. And that is fair. I feel tremendously for Janet and her family. I also feel for others who have been thrust into this limelight through no choice of their own. And whose lives are now open to scrutiny by many. I wouldn't want that in my own life, would you? For then even your most innocent remarks could be construed as something they perhaps weren't intended to be. These kids were under a lot of pressure. At a very young age. For something they didn't do. I think they have a right to be given the benefit of the doubt. I've seen adults cave in much less trying situations.

IF they choose to remain in the spotlight, that is their right. But I'm not here to judge anyone's motives in any of this except for Fawley's.

NO..Mike and Taylor were very,very good FRIENDS...They had been for years...

Would her parents have let her stay with him for the weekend if he was just an "acquaintance?"



Ask Peace...she'll tell ya...

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by vedder


NO..Mike and Taylor were very,very good FRIENDS...They had been for years...

Would her parents have let her stay with him for the weekend if he was just an "acquaintance?"


Ask Peace...she'll tell ya...

I wonder if Mike knew how old BF was?

If he did, and being a very good friend of Taylor's, trusted by her parents in Mike's care, I hope he would have spoken to BF, explaining his long-standing friendship with Taylor, and the trust her family placed in him, to not hit on Taylor, who was still legally considered a child at age 17.

Being very good friends with Taylor for years, I think Mike owed Taylor and her family that much.

IMO

[vedder]

Originally posted by Peace


Wait, Vedder - I think you may be putting words in my mouth. Taylor and Mike had NOT been friends for "years" (I guess depending on what you consider years). They were good friends, yes. They met through mutual friends as Mike was fresh out of high school when Taylor started high school. So, yes, they were more than acquaintenances and I believe that Taylor's parents probably would not have allowed Taylor to stay there had they been mere acquaintenances. Janet (and, I believe, Matt) met Mike and knew he was from the same town.

Anymore than ONE year, is YEARS...

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Rowan


hold on, hold on .. "trusted by her parents to Mike's care" .. WTH is this Paula?

Taylor arranged to spend the weekend with Mike. How does THAT equate to "entrusting" her care to him? Do you have children? Teen aged children? Would YOU have entrusted Taylor's care to Mike?

The fact is that Taylor's parents had no right to entrust Taylor's care to anyone but themselves and Taylor. My child goes to spend the weekend with friends, and I trust HER to take care of herself. I know that some of her friends are undesireable in some respects, but I can't choose her friends.

It is HER responsibility to make sure that she is safe - not theirs. And I think it is presumptuous and silly of you to say that anyone should have entrusted Taylor's care to Mike.

And again, I feel that all of you are attributing too much to the relationship between Taylor and Mike. They were friends, yes. But that doesn't put either of them in a position of controlling what the other did or didn't do.

As far as his warning her off of him, how do you KNOW he didn't? Are you privy to that information, or is this just another conjecture on your part? If it IS true, please provide a link where this is stated. Thank you.

ETA: Your comment that they had been friends "for years" also may not be true.

It doesn't look like you read my post very well in your rush to defend people you don't know, or do you?

My post was a question more than anything else. It was also a statement that good, long-standing friends look out for each other, and my hope that this was the case with Taylor and Mike, That is what good friends do in my neck of the woods.

My post was to Vedder, who said "Mike and Taylor were very,very good FRIENDS...They had been for years..."

But Peace, herself has stated they were good friends. Good friends look out for another, for that is the true meaning of a "good friend".

[vedder]

Originally posted by Hey Paula


It doesn't look like you read my post very well in your rush to defend people you don't know, or do you?

My post was a question more than anything else. It was also a statement that good, long-standing friends look out for each other, and my hope that this was the case with Taylor and Mike, That is what good friends do in my neck of the woods.

My post was to Vedder, who said "Mike and Taylor were very,very good FRIENDS...They had been for years..."

But Peace, herself has stated they were good friends. Good friends look out for another, for that is the true meaning of a "good friend".

I agree with you 100% Paula...

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Rowan




"good, long-standing friends" .. please read what Peace said again:

"Wait, Vedder - I think you may be putting words in my mouth. Taylor and Mike had NOT been friends for "years" (I guess depending on what you consider years). They were good friends, yes. They met through mutual friends as Mike was fresh out of high school when Taylor started high school. So, yes, they were more than acquaintenances"

Mike was what, four years older than Taylor? He didn't know her in high school, met her afterwards. She was in Vienna, he was in Richmond. So yes, they were "friends", casual friends ..

How can you determine the nature of the relationship between Cino and Taylor?

And to say that he was responsible FOR her in any way is just not fair. But you WANT to place blame on Cino. So tell me - other than you feel he failed miserably in the friend department by not telling Taylor that the man she was sleeping with was a potential murderer (assuming he KNEW any of that) .. what exactly DID Mike Cino do wrong?


Clearly, you are here to cause trouble, so I will not help you in this regard by responding to you again.

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Rowan


Ahh Paula. Good to see you've not lost your Peterson form :) Anyone who disagrees with you is "here to make trouble". So sorry for upsetting your sensibilities.

And of course you won't respond. Because my ideas are contrary to yours and might, just MIGHT be correct on some level.

How do you know what my "Peterson form" is?

So you lied when you pretended not to follow the Peterson case and when you played dumb on last short-lived Peterson board?

You even asked which books you should read on the Peterson case to become acquainted with it. Through it all, I detected insincerity, and this post confirmed my belief.

Your message is always the same, only the names of the characters change.

Your Chubby Checker version won't help you, as anyone, free of agenda, reading the posts in sequence, can readily see what you're doing.

As Abe Lincoln said:

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time".

[justathoughtdj]

Originally posted by Veracity


JOEB- Boy what a can of worms you opened! I too cannot understand why filters are not common place for public libraries which kids access.

There seems to be some big question of FREEDOM OF ACCESS!

Well, it seems farily simple to me = kids only computers with filters or all computers with filters. PERIOD.

What is so difficult - we have to balance public safety with freedom of access, right?

Just mo.

I don't know about any where else in Va but in the small town that I live in the computers in the library are set up at 2 different locations. If you are under 18 you have to use the computers on the ground floor that have every filter known to man and then some on them PLUS your parent must sign stating that you can use it. If you are 18 or older then you can use them on the second floor and as far as I know the only filters on those are for porn.

[jace]

I may not be the brightest crayon in the box but I do remember Hotwater saying that Mike Cino was irrelevant to this case. So why do you keep bringing him up? I didn't even finish reading all the posts. It's getting old. You made your point; everyone read it. Think of something else to talk about.

[vedder]

Originally posted by Mjolnir


As stated before, I believe Veractiy has pretty much blown you out of the water. The fact is that BF was the source of Cino's statement. Cino says it himself. At that point in time that Cino made that statement on Nancy Grace, BF was the prime suspect in Taylor's disappearance (she was found 2 days later). For all we know, and this is speculation, the source of Kevin's information was BF as well.

In hindsight it looks like BF was trying to throw people off by suggesting Taylor was involved in some form of illegal act which may have led to her disappearance. But knowing that BF was the prime suspect, why would Cino repeat this unverified garbage on TV. It had no credibiltiy coming from BF and it wasn't the least bit helpful in assisting in the search for Taylor.

Even so, I don't know how you can defend Cino's weblog posts. He is either in serious denial over BF's role or an apologist for BF.

Well said, Mjolnir...well said...

Why WOULD Mike reguritate anything BF said on national TV Peace?....As it clearly looked(even THEN) like BF was trying to shift blame away from HIMSELF and onto Taylor....


Do you have any idea?.....Did Mike really believe at that point, that Ben was innocent and that Taylor was completely capable of committing "ILLEGAL" activities??

Thats what it seems like to me.

Would like your thoughts on this please

[vedder]

Originally posted by Peace


Hi, Vedder - you have mostly been very respectful to me so I do not mind answering your questions, however, if there's something you personally wish to ask, please send me a private message. I do not wish to discuss my son publicly as I feel like it's just throwing him out to the wolves. There are specifically people I will not discuss him with and would ask that, if you are personally asking me a question, okay. If it's for anyone else or going to anyone else, I do not wish to be a part of it. The lynch mob has spoken loud and clear and have said flat out that nothing I can say will convince them otherwise, so I have nothing further to say to them.

I'm amazed at the people who wonder why I come here and read. How many of those people know the people (at least most of them) involved?

Peace...you are right, I should have PMed you...

I thought it was a vaild question and meant NO disrespect...

Just wanted to know what Mike was thinking at THAT point in time....thats all...

Will not happen again...

[jace]

The thing that stands out in my mind in those threads was someone from this site calling Mike and his friends "freaks" among other things. That's where the insults came from. I don't remember Peace insulting anyone. Tell me, veracity, do you have children? I find it hard to understand that you can expect Peace to read these things and not respond. It's okay for you to insinuate that her son played some part in what happened to Taylor but it's not okay for her to defend him? It would be different if she were Ben's mother coming on this site defending him.
Keep it up and you never know, this one might go "poof" too.

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by Mjolnir


Kevin, whose last name escapes me, is the cook from the Village Cafe. He is around 40 years of age. I think the picture you linked was of a much younger person.

Kevin the skateboarder is around 40 years old????!!!:eek:

okey dokey...

[protectkidz]

At the risk of offending (I find myself saying that CONSTANTLY here), this is the problem as I see it:

We are all here to discuss the death of Taylor - what, why, where, who, etc. The fact of the matter is (IMO) that there are people who, yes peripherally, are connected to the case. The addition of so much online interaction in this case is, to me, incredibly fascinating. Scott Peterson didn't write his thoughts and feelings online. Neither did Michael Jackson or John Couey. So, the online journals add something unique to discuss here, on COURTTV.

We also have the addition of relatives and friends of the peripheral players. I'm not talking about Dorkette - she has allowed all of us to discuss this without her intervention. I believe that she knows that Courttv is not where she wants to be, and even tho she knows we care about Taylor - I would assume that she doesn't want to read what we write.

This is not a place where we are going to join hands and sing Kume-by-ya (sp). This is a forum to discuss crimes - and in this case a serious crime.

I feel incredibly stifled on this particular forum. I feel unable to discuss the points of this case, because I don't want to step on any toes.

I believe we are all in agreement - BF killed Taylor. The whys, where, whats and whos - I feel unable to discuss here anymore.

Rowan - I understand where you are coming from but the whole defense of Mike is getting on my nerves. It's totally monopolized this forum for weeks and has become not only uninteresting, but counterproductive to even having a Taylor Behl forum.

Peeps - we've had our differences, but I have to say that I've really enjoyed your posts - You are able to express yourself in an intelligent way, without bashing - I would hope that eventually we would get to hear what you have to say re: the death of Taylor. I'm sure we could have some great discussions.

Veracity - you have lived up to your name!! lol!! Keep it up - you are an excellent researcher, and you always give me something to think about.

vedder - you seem to be losing steam, dude? Have you been busy lately? You have a sharp mind - always intriguing reading your posts.

Hey Paula - I have no idea why you got bashed, but I'm surprised because I've been reading you for a long time and you always seem fair to me.

joeb - you told me once that I don't know what I'm talking about!!! I forgive you, because you don't know me and you don't know how much time and effort I've put into this case, from spreading the word about Taylor from the moment her Amber came to my inbox, to the communications with Jim Nolan at the timesdispatch. Unfortunately, I don't feel comfortable discussing details, but it would've been nice to share with you since you are local. Keep inputting - your posts are valued.

Good luck to all.

Carry on.

PK

[protectkidz]

Let me be clear about one of the points in my last posts - Rowan, I never meant to imply that YOU have monopolized any threads with any one point - you haven't. But I do think it's time to stop talking about Mike Cino, and by responding (and I'm not at all directing this at just Rowan), it just keeps it going.

Rowan - I know how important it is to you to get to the truth of the matter in this case. I hope that all of the truth comes out - so many people would like to have the answers.

PK

[protectkidz]

Yes, we had that, and got a lot of info generated - I went over the links thread the other day, and it's amazing the amount of info.

Thanks Veracity.

[vedder]

Pk

"vedder - you seem to be losing steam, dude? Have you been busy lately? You have a sharp mind - always intriguing reading your posts"

To be honest, after five months, I am exhausted...

I just care too much to let it go...

Didn't really think I was "losing steam" though LOL

We still have a long way to go and I hope I do not disappoint you in the future...

vedder

[protectkidz]

Oh, Row - why do we have to be fair? why, why????

just kidding.

[joeb]

I value your comments. And all those of all others as well.

[protectkidz]

Originally posted by AvengingAngel


I'll second that.

BTW, PK, how come you didn't say anything about me?
:(
'
'

AA - you are always so sweet - with you I would sing Kum-by-ya!! Sorry for not mentioning you, also Thor's Lightening (mjolnir!), TN - our resident legal expert (thank God!), Peace - for wanting just that, and all of the others who have stuck with the board.

Let's go with Veracity's advice and start threads for what we know, and what we don't. I think that even if we have to bring in names of people who knew Taylor and Ben, we can do so without anyone getting upset. I'm sure if we stick to the facts that shouldn't be a problem.

Are you up to it, Veracity?

[singlesix]

Actually, the dog only went as far as their front steps and I don't believe the dog ever left the public sidewalk before the owners agreed to let the police search the house. They do have two dogs. Someone did break in.

singlesix

[protectkidz]

BTW - I see that single is here again (:) ), but where is nibblet?

nibblet - come back!

[Dorkette]

Hello all,

PK, I hope that I am not why you feel stifled. There is nothing any of you can say that would shock or hurt me - well, maybe hurt but it wouldn't hurt for long.

And I wish I could tell you more that would answer all of your questions.

Much love for your continued support,

Dorkette

[poplife]

Pk, I have always enjoyed your posts, whether I agree or not. Your post reminds me of the saying, no one can *make* us feel any way, we either choose or allow people to influence our feelings. Kinda came across as one of those "wanh wanh" bulletin board posts, IMO, things are going well here, maybe a bit stale for lack of current info, but that's to be expected. 'Twill pick up here shortly.

[protectkidz]

Dorkette - no, you've always been supportive and kind when posting here.

I think I feel stifled because I don't want Peace's feelings to be hurt, anymore more than they apparently have been. The talk about her son has been very hurtful to her, but the fact of the matter is that even if he wasn't directly involved, his name has been brought into the investigation. People here will want to talk about all aspects, and it has seemed that in doing that, Peace has been hurt.

Yes, it's stifling - but only because my reasons for being here are not to hurt.

Oh, and Dorkette - I think I speak for many when I say that we would like to find answers for YOU. Sorry if the fighting has been upsetting or stressful in any way.

poplife - wanh!! lol :D

[poplife]

poplife - wanh!! lol

You're a good sport! :beer:

[nibblet]

Originally posted by protectkidz
BTW - I see that single is here again (:) ), but where is nibblet?

nibblet - come back!


PK - Hi PK:seeya:

Nibblet has been swamped at work and has fallen behind in her class....trying to catch up on everything!!

:eek:

[justathoughtdj]

Here we go again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is no wonder people are talking of leaving the board because no one can say what they want to say even in a joking manor without someone bashing them or threatening them! It really sucks that we can not say what we want or have on our minds. The only thing we are allowed to say is that MC is a perfect angel who has a halo brighter than anyone else out there. He has never said or done anything wrong in his life.

[protectkidz]

Wait - Kevin the skateboarder is 40??????????????????????????

:D

[protectkidz]

;)

[poplife]

A) Shut up done subtly would be [shuddup] .

B) IIRC, Singlesix resides in/near FAN district and has provided clarifications on streets, locations, etc. It seems he has now evolved into a person privvy to information due to a friendship with certain players in this case? Maybe Singlesix is the 40yo skateboarder!!! :eek:

[singlesix]

I was a skateboarder when skateboards were made by taking an old-timey over-the-shoe metal roller skate apart and nailing or screwing the two halves to a board. Me forty? Ha! I wish.

I didn't recongnize the person in the linked pic a number of pages back. (I finally saw the PM and replied, too.)

I don't know for a fact if Jesse knew Skulz or not. I don't think so, but the Fan area is a small place in a lot of ways. For instance, there are some folks I've been nodding good morning to at the local 7-11 for 10 or 15 years and I don't know them at all. We see each other around town from time to time and say hi, but that's about it.

I could ask a few people about some of these questions, but the gag order poses a problem.

singlesix

[poplife]

Heee heee, see, I knew I was giving you a compliment! :tongue:

[bkqueen]

joking huh?

I guess I just never found joking about torture and illegal activities that funny..

but hey thats just me..

*waves* hi peace

[bleibtreu]

Originally posted by protectkidz
This is not a place where we are going to join hands and sing Kume-by-ya (sp). This is a forum to discuss crimes - and in this case a serious crime.

I feel incredibly stifled on this particular forum. I feel unable to discuss the points of this case, because I don't want to step on any toes.
Well said, the entire post. I haven't posted here much, primarily because I came to this forum to discuss facts of the case. I've tended to contribute only when I could add something, and stuck to just reading when I could not. Back in October most of the discussion here did entail the facts of the case -- or if not just facts, speculation based (at least somewhat :) ) on facts.

Much of the discussion at that time came close to what would be done in a professional investigation of a case of this sort. Of course, those discussions take place in the absence of friends, family, and acquaintances of both victims and suspects. I suppose discussion on the Internet can't be expected not to be overtaken by emotion, personalities, and even sometimes a bit of grandstanding.

We're all here for a number of different reasons, I suppse, and have to accept and make room for other peoples' reasons as well.

[Dorkette]

bleibtreu,

I hope that you haven't held anything back because you might step on my toes - as I have told others - there is nothing you can write that would not be something either I already know or haven't thought of. I don't know what could be worse than actually having lost a child like this - knowing that she died brutally at the hands of BF and then was dumped to lie in the elements for a month. I live with this every moment of everyday.

So, please feel free to jump in and write. It is amazing that so many people are interested in my daughter's case and contribute to these postings.

Much love to all,
Dorkette

[justathoughtdj]

I Second that Dorkette:rose:

[Belsma]

Love to Dorkette, Taylor and all the friends and family--and caring "strangers" trying to make sense of this and work it out in our own minds as to why this happened!:rose:
May the weenie rot.:flamemad:

[Dorkette]

Veracity and PK,

I have not been offended or hurt by anything that has been written. I don't always agree with everything that is said but no one could.

Taylor did not own a skateboard. Did Ben say she borrowed one of his that night to put her at his apartment? Taylor had been skateboarding on Saturday night with Jessie, Ian & Kevin.
If I remember correctly...Ian is Kevin's son and Jessie is Ian's best friend.

Write away!

Dorkette

[jace]

Thank you Dorkette. I had wondered when someone said Kevin was forty why he would be hanging out with college kids (I know Ben did...but he's a different case). It makes sense that maybe this was something that he enjoyed with his son.

:rose: for Dorkette

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Veracity


Paula -

I would add when someone is a guest in your home, especially in the SOUTH, you take care of them! It is the proper way to behave.

Thank you for understanding my point, Veracity.

I simply could not believe Rowan's defensiveness towards my original post to Vedder, which was, for the most part merely a question, i.e., did Mike know BF's age?

The second point of my referenced post was my hope, that as a male senior friend of Taylor's, that Mike would have spoken to BF, advising him of the friendship he and Taylor shared, and of the responsibility he felt, as such, to Taylor and her parents to look out for her, as a newcomer to Richmond.

As you can see, Rowan accused me of blaming Taylor's murder on Mike. I found Rowan's reply to my post to Vedder unwarranted and offensive, and her following posts dictatorial and argumentative.

I still maintain my belief in the fact that because Mike was Taylor's friend, and three years her senior, and knowing his roomate's age and thirst for children 20 years his junior, that Mike should have:

1) told BF to stay away from Taylor

2) told Taylor BF's age and his thirst for young girls, warning her to steer clear of him

3) called Taylor's family if he felt his advice wasn't being heeded

If Mike would have done the above, he would have felt secure that he had done what a good friend should do to protect a "good friend".

IMO

[jace]

This is an innocent question so I hope no one is offended by it and if it's been answered before I apologize for not remembering.
Do any of us know if Mike did or didn't say anything to Taylor once he felt maybe that Ben wasn't to be trusted around her? It could be a possiblity that he did (I don't know only "speculating") and maybe she didn't heed his advice. I think her friend had said that Taylor had decided (maybe after a warning or maybe from her own deductions) that Ben was someone she didn't want to be involved with; that she only spoke to him out of courtesy when going to her car.
*If Mike did say to Ben that Taylor was off limits, knowing what we know now, do you think if he really wanted to be with Taylor that he would have respected Mike's advice?

[Hey Paula]

Originally posted by Rowan


While I respectfully disagree with your characterizations in this post, I have resolved that I will not discuss the Mike Cino issue unless and until some new, case related, non-subjective information is produced.

I wonder though if you saw my apology.

Have a great day Paula.

No, I hadn't seen your apology, and looked for it only after reading this post, since your post was not a direct one to me.

I accept your apology and want you to know that I wasn't accusing anyone for Taylor's murder except her murderer.

[protectkidz]

Interesting how we just can't seem to move on to more facual aspects of Taylor's death.

I'm starting to wonder if there are forces at work here, intent on stalling our discussion.

I'm seeing posters that I know I saw on blogs (riehl world comes to mind). The discussions that I saw in the early days of this case (funny enough, same user names!) were way past where we are here right now.

hmmm...

[poplife]

Clearly, the internet busts the infinite monkey theorem.



:lol:

[protectkidz]

;)

But I hope you're proud of me, peeps, for not using the "t" word...:D

PK

[protectkidz]

poplife:

excellent observation - I'm ROTFLMAO!!!

definitely no Shakespeare here.

[poplife]

Quite seriously, folks (you know who you are); let's move on. Cino is irrelevant to the first degree murder case that is about to start and "what we know," and "what we don't know." Nice sleuthing, but let's drop it and continue speculating and discussing BF and the big weenie that he is.

So please, stop, drop and move on.



:patriot:

[protectkidz]

Interesting read. Not only the act of violence on Ben's part - but the fact that the LJ problems started well before Taylor went missing.

Hmmm. I'm not worried about the tone or content of the journal entries, as much as I scratch my head and wonder why the journal wasn't made private. Isn't there a feature on LJ so that journal entries can only be viewed by those the journal owner chooses? I've often wondered this over the last months.

[Belsma]

Before I write what I want to express, I want to say that only one person killed Taylor and we all know that, however when people type in on Cino and how he should have warned Taylor about bf...well, he is a guy! What, 22 at the time? No offence to him or Peace, but come on now. He's a "kid" compared to most of us. Plus, Taylor allegedly did not want to listen to him. Maybe he thought she would figure it out, and I think she did, but bf would not stand for that. It's possible that Mike did not think bf would turn out to be a murderer, especially if he felt that Taylor finally tried to distanced herself from him and maybe he thought bf would move on. I wish we could put all of our "what ifs" together and get her back. I wish we could all yell, scream and hate to see each others screen names to get her back. I wish I'd never heard of any of these folks except maybe a blurb in the paper about a photograher who went crazy and is locked up in the looney bin because he tried to cut himself up. Would have forgotten about him in a day. Sorry, rambling....

[singlesix]

" I want to say that only one person killed Taylor and we all know that"

Only if you believe Skulz is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. The man is a self-admitted liar and convicted felon. We shall see what new info the trial brings.

singlesix

[jbs]

Originally posted by Captain Joe


Well, in 2004 he knew that Fawley beat on a female roommate with a tire iron after an automobile accident, and Cino was only worried that Fawley would have to go to jail, leaving Cino without a place to live and have to drop out of school.

http://hcjordan.livejournal.com/7518.html

I found this very helpfu. I had never seen it before. It shows a history of violence. It cant be just brushed away as "oh that happened two years ago". It shows trouble was brewing in chez skulz. Wherever that would be. I am not commenting on anything in the above about Cino. Only about Ben Fawley. It is one more good piece of information that this was a violent guy with big problems.

[protectkidz]

Yes, jbs - I agree.

One thing that I think needs to be kept in mind - even though Cino's name will be mentioned re: BF and the details of BF's life, it doesn't necessarily mean that anyone is picking on Cino.

[jace]

Another reason to believe that Ben killed Taylor because he was angry not during any "rough sex."
He definitely had anger management issues.

[protectkidz]

another profile of BF, apparently when he lived in PA:

http://www.gotblack.com/profiles/profile.php3?p_id=3634

[mendara]

this is my theory and I am just thinking about how something like this could happen.

I believe taylor was having a bad day with her issue with the boy she liked - I believe Ben may have been stalking Taylor - I read somewhere that a friend of Taylor mentioned that Taylor avoided Ben - she would park her car near his apartment because there were plenty of free parking spots but she felt uncomfortable running into to him - and yet she felt guilty if she ignored or treated him badly (I have been in this situation, you feel bad being "mean" and are forced into conversations at times just to avoid angering someone you feel nervous around) -


I really believe that she ran into him often because he followed her at times - and maybe no one saw this because he picked times when she was alone

that week especially he was having issues with his "friends" and was making changes in his inner circle ending friendships.

I believe he saw her return to her place that night and leave again - he may have approached her and asked for a ride or something - he may have expressed how crappy his day was and she felt sorry for him and reluctantly let him in her car - after that he may have asked her to park and talk...


I just think that sometimes we do things we don't want to do - we are uncertain and our gut is telling us not to - we know it is a bad idea and yet we fall into it and hope for the best and we don't actually think something bad will happen to us. If she did indeed have some type of sexaul relationship with him in the past as her own words suggest - she may have felt guilty for "having sex with him and then dropping him" he may have played into this heavely -

Ben knew this.. he was good with words - Taylor was a child who seemed like she wanted to rebel...he knew this

I think he tried to force her into something sexual with plans of killing her if she didn't agree to it and she turned him away and this infuriated him it was like the icing on the cake for him -


I hope her mother remains strong - this trial will be hard as things are revealed the nerve of him to use this type of defense is unbelievable...I don't think Taylor would ever have conseted to anything he claims.