Ben Fawley Arraigned Today, No Plea Entered [Archive]

LADY2NOW

01-25-2006, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Thanks Nibs. I heard last night about Johnson. Tried to learn more about him but couldn't.

So far, this guy looks to be pretty far under the radar. I can't even find him listed in Yahoo's Yellow Pages under lawyers in Gloucester, VA. (I'll look again for lawyers in Mathews--I see from the RTD article, they say he's from Mathews).

Found this interesting site (certified court-appointed counsel for the various districts in VA):

http://idc.vi.virginia.gov/defend/

When I look up certified court-appointed attorneys for felony cases for the 9th Circuit (includes Mathews County), Johnson (William E. and/or Bill) doesn't show up...

http://idc.vi.virginia.gov/defend/Search-Results.aspx

Hey Paula

01-25-2006, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by CC81
wasn't sure where to put this, and not totally sure if anyone has said this already, but Mathews does not have a regular jail.. and that all we have is a "sherriff's holding cell" where people are only allowed to stay for a max. of 8 hours according to VA law.

that's gotta be one long ride for him.. everything will be gone over in court about what happened, then he has to ride down the same roads (not all but most) he took that fateful night, over and over again to go to the trial.. that has to suck.

Would that be 8 hours per day or 8 hours total time in the holding cell?

TIA

CC81

01-25-2006, 01:31 PM

I'm no legal expert, but I would hope it would be 8 hours per 24.. what else would you do with repeat offenders if it were 8 hours total? :shrug:

Hey Paula

01-25-2006, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by CC81
I'm no legal expert, but I would hope it would be 8 hours per 24.. what else would you do with repeat offenders if it were 8 hours total? :shrug:

i'm trying to figure out how that can possibly work, as BF would have to spend more than 8 hrs daily in that cell if the trial is held in Mathews County.

If the trial hours are, e.g., from 9AM - 5PM, BF would spend 16 hours in his cell. That's double the allowed 8 hours.

Hey Paula

01-25-2006, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by nibblet
Here is a picture of Fawley entering court - black hair grown out. Still has that little spot of hair on his chin.

http://www.nbc4.com/news/6430529/detail.html

Hi Nibblet! :seeya:

There is no escaping BF's despicable crimes, which the jury will, IMO, learn about, since Taylor was a minor herself. I read this sentence in your link, and was sickened.

"Prosecutors said authorities also found at least 30 videos on Fawley's computers depicting children as young as 1 in sexual acts."

CC81

01-25-2006, 01:50 PM

here's what I found that's closest to "Bill Johnson" in the local phone book...

it's actually for a William E. Johnson...

Yellow pages listing:
" the Johnson Law Center"
"when you need to win"
"aggressive representation"

representing areas of:
divorce & custody - support & alimony contested, no-falut separation agreements
traffic offenses- DUI & reckless, speeding, suspended license, habitual offender
criminal defense-drug charges, assault, battery, sex offenses, felonies & misdemeanors.

free consultation 804-694-1111 or toll free 1-866-694-4313

"aggressive representation in all courts"
"circuit, general district & juvenile domestic relations"
"proudly serving the middle peninsula and all of eastern Virginia since 1987.

www.johnsonlawcenter.com (http://www.johnsonlawcenter.com)

white pages listing:
there are two "William E Johnson" listed, one is a local (Mathews) 725 number and the other is a 224.. which I don't know where that covers. Not positive this is the same attorney, but most Williams go by Bill.... going to check out the JLC web site now...

CC81

01-25-2006, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

i'm trying to figure out how that can possibly work, as BF would have to spend more than 8 hrs daily in that cell if the trial is held in Mathews County.

If the trial hours are, e.g., from 9AM - 5PM, BF would spend 16 hours in his cell. That's double the allowed 8 hours.

I'm pretty sure he's going to have to be hauled in from another County every day.

Hey Paula

01-25-2006, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

And that is where I step in.............children as young as 1!!!

Should I go on another rant or just chill?

Children as young as 1.

Unreal.

When it comes to subjecting a sexually immature person to "sexual attention" (for want of a better phrase), why don't you just drop kick that young person in the face with steel-toed construction boots. THE EFFECT IS THE SAME. IT IS A VICIOUS PHYSICAL ASSAULT!!!

A 1 year old baby.

Can I trust the porn charges will be tried in Fed Court?

I know child porn on the internet is a Federal offense, but I'm not sure about possession of such videos.

I hope the Commonwealth can introduce it in Taylor's trial, as Taylor, a 17 year old, was considered a minor and BF, a 38 year old, admitted to causing her death during sex.

bleibtreu

01-25-2006, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by CC81

I'm pretty sure he's going to have to be hauled in from another County every day. After the arraignment, according to one of the linked articles above, he was taken by van "back to Richmond City Jail." Presumably that could be a daily round trip.

bleibtreu

01-25-2006, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by CC81
there are two "William E Johnson" listed, one is a local (Mathews) 725 number and the other is a 224.. which I don't know where that covers. Not positive this is the same attorney, but most Williams go by Bill.... going to check out the JLC web site now... Findlaw has a listing for a William E. Johnson with a Gloucester address, but his practice is identified as Estate Planning. That hints that there are likely two different attorneys with that name in the area.
http://pview.findlaw.com/view/1125180_1

Hey Paula

01-25-2006, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

I know child porn on the internet is a Federal offense, but I'm not sure about possession of such videos.

I hope the Commonwealth can introduce it in Taylor's trial, as Taylor, a 17 year old, was considered a minor and BF, a 38 year old, admitted to causing her death during sex.

Sorry to quote myself, but I just noticed they are internet videos, so I suppose it is a Federal offense.

bleibtreu

01-25-2006, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

Sorry to quote myself, but I just noticed they are internet videos, so I suppose it is a Federal offense. From everything I've seen and read, the current child porn charges are state charges. Every comment about them has been made by the prosecutor for the Commonwealth, while if they were federal charges he wouldn't be involved in prosecuting them. I do recall reading a month or so ago that the U.S. Attorney's office was reviewing the case in contemplation of filing federal charges, but that doesn't appear to have happened so far.

CC81

01-25-2006, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by bleibtreu
Findlaw has a listing for a William E. Johnson with a Gloucester address, but his practice is identified as Estate Planning. That hints that there are likely two different attorneys with that name in the area.
http://pview.findlaw.com/view/1125180_1

the phone number listed on findlaw.com is the same as listed in my yellow pages post earlier. Pretty sure it's the same William. Just not positve which white pages listing is him.

Hey Paula

01-25-2006, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by bleibtreu
From everything I've seen and read, the current child porn charges are state charges. Every comment about them has been made by the prosecutor for the Commonwealth, while if they were federal charges he wouldn't be involved in prosecuting them. I do recall reading a month or so ago that the U.S. Attorney's office was reviewing the case in contemplation of filing federal charges, but that doesn't appear to have happened so far.

Having them remain State charges would be beneficial, IMO, since BF admitted to having sex with Taylor, who was a minor. If the judge admits the videos in evidence, it will establish a pattern of BF being a sexual predator.

IMO

LADY2NOW

01-25-2006, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by CC81

white pages listing:
there are two "William E Johnson" listed, one is a local (Mathews) 725 number and the other is a 224.. which I don't know where that covers. Not positive this is the same attorney, but most Williams go by Bill.... going to check out the JLC web site now...

According to my local phone book, the "224" number is in Colonial Beach, which is not far from Fredericksburg, so I think the 725 number is the one.

Maybe William E Johnson has two offices--one in Gloucester and one in Mathews. The first report about BF's new attorney posted earlier by Hey Paula identified him as "...Gloucester Attorney Bill Johnson" and today's reports identify him as Mathews attorney William E. Johnson.

nibblet

01-25-2006, 03:39 PM

Well, if you don't have a lot of murder cases, I guess you gotta do estate planning to keep the lights on...;)

01-25-2006, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by nibblet
Well, if you don't have a lot of murder cases, I guess you gotta do estate planning to keep the lights on...;)

;)

LADY2NOW

01-25-2006, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by nibblet
Well, if you don't have a lot of murder cases, I guess you gotta do estate planning to keep the lights on...;)

;)

And the murder case clients you do have oughta be thinking about estate planning... maybe there's a "buy one defense, get one free" kind of deal.

nibblet

01-25-2006, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by LADY2NOW

;)

And the murder case clients you do have oughta be thinking about estate planning... maybe there's a "buy one defense, get one free" kind of deal.

:lol:

01-25-2006, 07:05 PM

Click on "see Gary Reals' report" for video

Story here (http://www.wusa9.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=46234)

Belsma

01-25-2006, 07:41 PM

He is such a weeney.

I was hoping they had put a blindfold on him, and threw him in a very dark van with no windows he could see out of. He does not deserve to see the light of day, literally. IMO I don't think the drive phased him at all about what he had done because he does not think he did anything wrong.

Is there not a weeney smiley?:shrug:

LADY2NOW

01-25-2006, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Belsma
He is such a weeney.

I was hoping they had put a blindfold on him, and threw him in a very dark van with no windows he could see out of. He does not deserve to see the light of day, literally. IMO I don't think the drive phased him at all about what he had done because he does not think he did anything wrong.

Is there not a weeney smiley?:shrug:

IMO, he probably wishes he had a camera so that he could document this latest episode in the saga of the tortured life and times of B. "Weeny" Fawley.

Belsma

01-25-2006, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by LADY2NOW

IMO, he probably wishes he had a camera so that he could document this latest episode in the saga of the tortured life and times of B. "Weeny" Fawley.

You're probably right. He's a weeney times a billion. Who do we call to get that weeney smiley ordered?

lady rahza

01-25-2006, 08:37 PM

Johnson has been a defense attorney in Mathews for 18 years and said he has handled "hundreds of criminal trials" against Mathews Commonwealth’s Attorney John S. Gill, as well "a significant number of jury trials" in various venues across Eastern Virginia. He will share Fawley’s defense responsibilities with attorney Chris Collins of Richmond.

http://gazettejournal.net/

Sounds like BF has good representation.

LADY2NOW

01-25-2006, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by lady rahza
Johnson has been a defense attorney in Mathews for 18 years and said he has handled "hundreds of criminal trials" against Mathews Commonwealth’s Attorney John S. Gill, as well "a significant number of jury trials" in various venues across Eastern Virginia. He will share Fawley’s defense responsibilities with attorney Chris Collins of Richmond.

http://gazettejournal.net/

Sounds like BF has good representation.

Thank you for the link--it's the most in-depth article I've seen so far about BF's court appearance today. Yes, Bill Johnson sounds very able and competent, and not cocky or full of himself.

starling

01-25-2006, 09:27 PM

CTV crime library article

http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0106/2501_Fawley_first_court_appearance1.html

Hey Paula

01-25-2006, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by LADY2NOW

According to my local phone book, the "224" number is in Colonial Beach, which is not far from Fredericksburg, so I think the 725 number is the one.

Maybe William E Johnson has two offices--one in Gloucester and one in Mathews. The first report about BF's new attorney posted earlier by Hey Paula identified him as "...Gloucester Attorney Bill Johnson" and today's reports identify him as Mathews attorney William E. Johnson.

Hi Lady!

Here is a photo of William Johnson, Fawley's, attorney. Scroll down.

This is Crime Library's link re Fawley's arraignment today.

William Johnson, BF's Attorney (http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0106/2501_Fawley_first_court_appearance1.html)

LADY2NOW

01-26-2006, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

Hi Lady!

Here is a photo of William Johnson, Fawley's, attorney. Scroll down.

This is Crime Library's link re Fawley's arraignment today.

William Johnson, BF's Attorney (http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0106/2501_Fawley_first_court_appearance1.html)

Thank you Paula! Good pic!

LADY2NOW

01-26-2006, 09:16 AM

Originally posted by richmonds-t

Who was that lawyer we had in Richmond that was a HOT SHOT and went off to another country? I think they pulled his license here. He may have even been a DA at one time. This guy koos like him but with less hair.

I remember a story something like this coming out of Richmond many years ago. Was he the lawyer who "disappeared"--his family feared that he'd died in a boating accident or something, but he was later "found"? A classic case of someone wanting to "skip out" but making their own disappearance look like an "accidental" death?

Anyway, the two may look alike, but I doubt there is any connection between them. The Virginia State Bar site

http://www.vsb.org

has a facility to check records of VA attorneys (disciplinary actions, etc.). A search of "Johnson" doesn't bring up a hit on either Bill or William.

LADY2NOW

01-26-2006, 09:18 AM

I saw on the news this am (NBC 12--Richmond) that BF has a court appearance in Richmond today in connection with the child porn charges.

http://www.wwbt.com/

He's a busy guy. Must need a social secretary.

4MYGUYS

01-26-2006, 09:20 AM

4MYGUYS

01-26-2006, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by LADY2NOW
I saw on the news this am (NBC 12--Richmond) that BF has a court appearance in Richmond today in connection with the child porn charges.

http://www.wwbt.com/

He's a busy guy. Must need a social secretary.

hahaha, I think he has one, Court appointed, and even his own private office with facilities.

I like the way this is going down, first march his .... to one court shackled & escorted by some of the finest, and the very next day before that fully settles in, the next. I wonder if it has yet made an impression in his psyche, and clued him into where his future is going.

01-26-2006, 11:31 AM

I do have a question. I've watched or read most of the news reports from yesterday, but I can't find any explanation as to why Ben was not required to enter a plea.

Does anyone know? TIA.

LADY2NOW

01-26-2006, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Thanks, Lady.

Keep us posted on the results of that hearing.

I'll do my best, but I couldn't find this case in the link to Virginia's case information databases (General District nor Circuit Court):

http://www.courts.state.va.us/courts/courts.html

The NBC 4 6 a.m. newscast didn't even mention the reason for today's hearing. Does anyone have a better link to active cases in the Virginia Court System? We may just have to rely on media reports, and things have been so crazy around here at my house lately, that I'm lucky to catch the 6 p.m. news (the 6 a.m. report is easier to catch but, by that point, I've only had 1/2 cup of coffee!).

As always and forever, :rose: for Taylor

Alli

01-26-2006, 02:01 PM

Here's a good article I read on RWV. It mentions that Erin's dad was there yesterday. Sorry if you've already seen it.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137833656955

Alli

bleibtreu

01-26-2006, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Rowan Again
I do have a question. I've watched or read most of the news reports from yesterday, but I can't find any explanation as to why Ben was not required to enter a plea.Just not at that part of the process yet. The purpose of this proceeding was to ascertain whether he needed Court-appointed counsel, and then to appoint the attorney.

LADY2NOW

01-26-2006, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by Alli
Here's a good article I read on RWV. It mentions that Erin's dad was there yesterday. Sorry if you've already seen it.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137833656955

Alli

Don't be sorry--all relevant links are heartily appreciated.

I begin to wonder if BF's current appearance ("thinner", etc.) is going to weigh in to the defense's case. Yes, the shirt and pants he's wearing are "baggy"--was this contrived? It's not like they (his defense "team") can't send a clerk out to pick up something that fits! AA (Avenging Angel) said about the photo of BF at

http://gazettejournal.net/..

"fawley looks like a 15 yr old kid in that picture........"

Yes, he does look young--is this going to be a plus or a minus for the prosecution when it comes to the trial?

Alli

01-26-2006, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by LADY2NOW

Don't be sorry--all relevant links are heartily appreciated.

I begin to wonder if BF's current appearance ("thinner", etc.) is going to weigh in to the defense's case. Yes, the shirt and pants he's wearing are "baggy"--was this contrived? It's not like they (his defense "team") can't send a clerk out to pick up something that fits! AA (Avenging Angel) said about the photo of BF at

http://gazettejournal.net/..

"fawley looks like a 15 yr old kid in that picture........"

Yes, he does look young--is this going to be a plus or a minus for the prosecution when it comes to the trial? [B]

I don't think that it will have much bearing. Just because a 38 yr. old looks younger doesn't make it ok to have a sexual relationship with someone 17. I think all jury members would understand that. I am sure that eventhough Ben tried to portray himself as younger, the people around him knew his real age. I don't think it will make much of a difference.

LADY2NOW

01-26-2006, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by Alli
[B]

I don't think that it will have much bearing. Just because a 38 yr. old looks younger doesn't make it ok to have a sexual relationship with someone 17. I think all jury members would understand that. I am sure that eventhough Ben tried to portray himself as younger, the people around him knew his real age. I don't think it will make much of a difference.

I agree with you--however, I just hope that everyone/anyone on the jury sees it that way, too. I have this picture in my mind of BF sitting everyday at the defense counsel table, looking "young and vulnerable". Remember, someone once very close to BF (I won't go back and look for the link now since so many links to BF and threads on this board have been deleted) said something to the effect that he could portray himself to be whatever the person he was with needed. I think that BF will do no less than this now that it's his own life on the line.

Alli

01-26-2006, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Actually, when I first read that, I was thinking in terms of the murder itself. Fawley looks like a slight kid. I don't know what Taylor's ht and wt was, but if the defense has fawley looking like a little weakling, then you might start to wonder about whether he should have had more defensive wounds on him. After all, he didn't use a gun. He used his hands. If Taylor was big enough, then weak little fawley should have displayed more signs of being in a struggle................then again we don't really know what the cop said/thought who took the report...............so I suppose if the defense is going with the Chambers Defense, then a little fawley would look better than a big fawley IF there was a lack of obvious wounds ........:shrug:

That's a good point. I didn't think of it in that sense. Let's hope that Taylor got 'em good! Maybe his wounds were on his body. I remember hearing that he had a mark on his stomach. His weak little frame is not going to help him in jail. Awww.....too bad. He deserves any mistreatment he gets!!!

poplife

01-26-2006, 04:23 PM

He looks like Peter Pan's evil twin. I would put money on that shirt w/ sleeves 3" too long and his gait into the courtroom slouched over was totally contrived.

bleibtreu

01-26-2006, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Alli
[B]

I don't think that it will have much bearing. Just because a 38 yr. old looks younger doesn't make it ok to have a sexual relationship with someone 17. I think all jury members would understand that. Most likely yes, anyone would "understand" it. But even subconsciously it may have some bearing. If the defendant in a case like this looks like a grizzled 50 year old weighing 300 pounds he'd probably be perceived differently than would a defendant who looks like a slight, meek, 21 year old. The appearance of a defendant can certainly make a difference, especially in a jury case.

Hey Paula

01-26-2006, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Rowan Again
I do have a question. I've watched or read most of the news reports from yesterday, but I can't find any explanation as to why Ben was not required to enter a plea.

Does anyone know? TIA.

I will guess it's because BF acquired a new attorney, who did not have ample time to review the case, in order to properly counsel his client.

csi_fan_01

01-26-2006, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Whoever he is, I doubt he is experienced in murder cases....

Remember OJ's "Dream Team" of lawyers?

Yep, money changes everything.

When anyone brings up the "Dream Team" I have to step in. There were more reasons than OJ's Dream Team or money that got OJ Simpson off. First, he was a famous football player. With a predominantly black female jury -- they were none too happy wtih the prosecutor as they thought Marcia Clark was a b***. And this was assessed using Jury Quest - a company that assists attorneys in the jury selection phase of a trial. Second, all the players from Judge Ito to Darden and Clark did an "F" job in their jobs during that entire case. They did not call witnesses for fear of defense playing cards like "race" as a way of shaking the witnesses' stature with the jury and depleting their credibility. They did a p*ss poor job at their jobs -- not to mention the "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit..." Which was ludicrous as anyone knows that leather shrinks when its been wet with water -- or blood. Even if the glove had not shrunk from the blood, it's pretty hard to pull anything leather over rubber and if you notice from all those famous pictures, OJ was wearing rubber gloves when he tried the gloves on in the court room. Basically, Cochran et al. had the foresight to knock down everything -- while tainting the whole case with charges of racism and police corruption.

Please note, Police Corruption -- a lot of those police officers idolized him -- so why would they set him up for murder? Not even logical there.

Judge Ito was more worried about camera angles and making sure the cameramen were getting his "good side" than the rulings he was making during the entire case.

So the Dream Team was really just a bunch of lucky lawyers that gave a C performance rather than an F like everyone else playing in the drama we call the OJ Simpson Trial.

As for Ben. They have an admission from him - while it does change everyday -- it's still an admission - which will be used against him in the trial. Additionally, it really would not hurt my feelings if his lawyer is "cutting his teeth" on this jerk's trial because he will make mistakes that a savvy defense attorney would not -- making a conviction more accessible.

Ben should get the death penalty. Anything less is a miscarriage of justice. And frankly, do any of you want to contribute to his $52K per year bill of life without parole? I sure as hell don't...

csi_fan_01

01-26-2006, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by poplife
He looks like Peter Pan's evil twin. I would put money on that shirt w/ sleeves 3" too long and his gait into the courtroom slouched over was totally contrived.

The idiot is trying to play on the sympathy of the judge. Why he is an idiot is because the judge should be the least of his concern. It's the jury he will have to play the "wounded puppy" role for... not the judge.

This guy really is just too twisted for color television...

I think they need to let him be in general pop while he sits there waiting for his trial. I can assure you he would never be top dog in prison. It's one thing to be a 38 year old among teenagers and look like a big man -- but a completely different story when you are surrounded by guys who are used to eating peshers like you for breakfast.

01-26-2006, 06:04 PM

Well. I was there yesterday at the hearing, and I didn't think Ben Fawley looked like a whipped puppy. He is a slight man, but he did stand up straight, with his arms behind his back, and answered the judge clearly and in a strong voice.

He is very thin, and not very tall. Whoever made the suggestion above that people would look at him and wonder how he could overpower anyone is quite correct. I expected to see a more powerful person. That does not mean that I don't think he is capable of it, because I do. I'm not entirely sure what I expected to see, but I am entirely sure that he was not at all what I expected.

01-26-2006, 06:39 PM

Let's keep our fingers crossed :)

Hi Angel!

Hey Paula

01-26-2006, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by Rowan Again
Well. I was there yesterday at the hearing, and I didn't think Ben Fawley looked like a whipped puppy. He is a slight man, but he did stand up straight, with his arms behind his back, and answered the judge clearly and in a strong voice.

He is very thin, and not very tall. Whoever made the suggestion above that people would look at him and wonder how he could overpower anyone is quite correct. I expected to see a more powerful person. That does not mean that I don't think he is capable of it, because I do. I'm not entirely sure what I expected to see, but I am entirely sure that he was not at all what I expected.

Don't forget that BF has been in jail for 4 months, and has likely lost weight during that period.

Defendants have been known to intentionally lose weight to have themselves appear frail, and incapable of having the ability to overtake their victims.

IMO

4MYGUYS

01-26-2006, 07:11 PM

01-26-2006, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

Don't forget that BF has been in jail for 4 months, and has likely lost weight during that period.

Defendants have been known to intentionally lose weight to have themselves appear frail, and incapable of having the ability to overtake their victims.

IMO

I am not willing to ascribe it to anything more than being in jail and being scared to death. And, that he wasn't a large man to begin with apparently.

Given that Fawley is indigent, given that all of his belongings were confiscated and are being held as evidence or are locked away, it's not a stretch to think that he was given clothing to appear in yesterday and that the clothing was too large. I'm quite sure he's not in a position to order clothing to wear to court.

The fact of the matter is this: Fawley is NOT a large man now, and was not a large man before. He'd have to do alot of work in a gym to present as anything more than a slight, underweight man. His build is very slight - Arnold he is not. I don't think this was the least bit contrived.

Hey Paula

01-26-2006, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by 4MYGUYS

During the trial would it do any good for the prosecution to point out a substantial weight loss to imply his continued attempts to contrive? For example, note what the prison records show his weight to be upon admission, and current weight at time of trial.

If the Def intends to stress BF's frailty, I would expect the Pros to state BF's weight at the time of his arrest, and if necessary, weigh him presently, to stress the difference in his weight.

But, as you can see, from Rowan's post, who saw BF in the courtroom, his frail appearance was already recognized by some courtroom spectators.

01-26-2006, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

That's the point I brought up. Even when I've gotten in a "dust up" with somebody smaller than me, I always ended up with something......black eye, broken nose, etc.

That's why I'd like to know what the cop who took fawley's report remembers. fawley HAD to have shown SOMETHING.

I think it would benefit the defense if skinny little fawley is sitting there at the defense table and the cop doesn't remember any visible wounds on him. As far as I know, all the cop said was that he believed fawley when he said he was in a stuggle.

Damn......let's hope the cop took pictures.....pictures showing fawley with wounds.........

Yes, but remember that he's already established an "alibi" for any wounds he might have shown - the attack he reported to the police the night Taylor went missing.

Unfortunately, that is a situation that is neither provable or disprovable.

01-26-2006, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by peeparoo

I remember at one point someone mentioned in a (sarcastic) post that BF claimed to wear a women's size 5--that's VERY small to begin with. I'm not sure where that info came from--does anyone else remember hearing that? If so, it doesn't seem like he would need to make himself any smaller as a defense tactic.

peeps

From a prosecutorial standpoint, his size is going to be an issue they'll need to defend, I'd think. His frame is small. I don't recall the post you mention, but I would say that's very close to what I saw. We're talking about his losing weight, and weight is one thing. Frame is another.

For the record, my husband was with me in court yesterday and driving home, Fawley's size (or lack of it) was one of the first things he mentioned.

Hey Paula

01-26-2006, 07:33 PM

Originally posted by Rowan Again

I am not willing to ascribe it to anything more than being in jail and being scared to death. And, that he wasn't a large man to begin with apparently.

Given that Fawley is indigent, given that all of his belongings were confiscated and are being held as evidence or are locked away, it's not a stretch to think that he was given clothing to appear in yesterday and that the clothing was too large. I'm quite sure he's not in a position to order clothing to wear to court.

The fact of the matter is this: Fawley is NOT a large man now, and was not a large man before. He'd have to do alot of work in a gym to present as anything more than a slight, underweight man. His build is very slight - Arnold he is not. I don't think this was the least bit contrived.

In viewing his pics, during yesterday's court appearance, his clothing did appear to be too large for his body. His shirt sleeves were even too long.

I don't know whether or not this was intentional yesterday. However, defendants have been known (and I daresay oftentimes on advice of counsel) to utilize such tactics.

IMO

01-26-2006, 07:34 PM

And, as an aside to all of this, size really does not matter IF one is emotionally stimulated, like in rage or fear. Remember. A mother can pick up a truck if she fears for her child.

01-26-2006, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

In viewing his pics, during yesterday's court appearance, his clothing did appear to be too large for his body. His shirt sleeves were even too long.

I don't know whether or not this was intentional yesterday. However, defendants have been known (and I daresay oftentimes on advice of counsel) to utilize such tactics.

IMO

I noticed that the shoulders of the shirt he had on fell about 2 inches down his arm. That's how big that shirt was.

Frankly? I was very surprised that he was not in prison clothing. That's what I expected to see.

Hey Paula

01-26-2006, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by Peace
Ben never HAS been large.

Not knowing BF personally, but merely judging from the photos I saw of him when he had the Johnny Depp "do" and blonde hair, compared to those I saw which were taken yesterday, he appears thinner to me.

I agree that BF wasn't large before his arrest, but does look thinner now. His face appears thinner too.

IMO

01-26-2006, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

I don't think I saw that before. I remember when I saw the blond fawley the first time, I wondered if maybe he had drugged Taylor because he looked "frail" to me.

The fawley I saw yesterday was even smaller. Jeez, I could take that fawley with one arm while pouring an ice cold molson with the other arm. And I wouldn't spill a drop.

Got an extra Molson? :beer:

01-26-2006, 08:12 PM

Here is Fawley as Skulz. Self-portrait I believe.

http://mysite.verizon.net/kmorehead/FawleyTopless.jpg

Hey Paula

01-26-2006, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

LOL

I stand corrected! I could take THAT fawley with one arm also.

I could pour TWO molsons (one for me and one for Row) and still not spill a drop...

:lol: I'll take that bet! AND the beer!

01-26-2006, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

I was struck by BF's description of his "abduction" and his claim that his "abductors" placed a plastic bag over his head. I believe this is what he did to Taylor, which caused her death.

IMO

What has always troubled me was the fact that the hyoid bone was not broken. Which speaks more to suffocation than strangulation, right? Which, of course, would give credence to your theory.

singlesix

01-26-2006, 09:06 PM

Looking at the courtroom footage I thought he looked healthier than I'd ever seen him. The fluffy hair made his head and face look even smaller than usual. He's scrawny even for a little guy.

Maybe the jailhouse food is agreeing with him. ;)

singlesix

Hey Paula

01-26-2006, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by Rowan Again

What has always troubled me was the fact that the hyoid bone was not broken. Which speaks more to suffocation than strangulation, right? Which, of course, would give credence to your theory.

BF claimed Taylor's death was the result of erotic asphyxia, which would likely not be distinguishable from death resulting from a plastic bag being placed over someone's head.

Hopefully Taylor's body will tell its own story of what BF actually did to her, which was by no means consensual.

Hey Paula

01-26-2006, 10:04 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

You know, I'd be willing to give fawley the benefit of the doubt about the choking sex thing if he had it in his past.

As far as I know, there is no evidence fawley engaged in that kind of behavior (AS FAR AS I KNOW).

But he DOES have a history of choking women in a fit of rage.

End of story.

Can't wait to see what evidence comes out in trial.

I think it was Erin who said the same thing, i.e., that BF never engaged in erotic asphyxia.

You're right, BF has a history of violence towards women, and has attempted to choke them during his rageful episodes.

Murderers and liars oftentimes incorporate truths into the statements they make. Because a plastic bag was said to have been found with Taylor, and because BF said his abductors placed a plastic bag over his head, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that was how he killed Taylor.

Belsma

01-26-2006, 10:57 PM

I thought they found her remains in plastic, not to say that she did not die with a bag over her head, I just imagined a big lawn bag or something.
He is such a weenie. He probably asked someone to get him a XXL shirt, so he would seem more pitiful. It seems his entire "adult" life he has tried to play the pitiful guy to get attention. I think he sucks people in at first trying to act like the "cool" photographer . Then once he gets 'em in he has this sob story, blah, blah, blah and unfortunately people with big hearts feel sorry for him and then the mood changes when they get fed up with his ****. So he freaks them out, they want to get the hell away from him and gets violent. JMO!:confused:

Hey Paula

01-26-2006, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by Belsma
I thought they found her remains in plastic, not to say that she did not die with a bag over her head, I just imagined a big lawn bag or something.
He is such a weenie. He probably asked someone to get him a XXL shirt, so he would seem more pitiful. It seems his entire "adult" life he has tried to play the pitiful guy to get attention. I think he sucks people in at first trying to act like the "cool" photographer . Then once he gets 'em in he has this sob story, blah, blah, blah and unfortunately people with big hearts feel sorry for him and then the mood changes when they get fed up with his ****. So he freaks them out, they want to get the hell away from him and gets violent. JMO!:confused:

Yes, it had been reported that way. In fact, the plastic bag was considered as part of the premeditation since one doesn't normally carry large plastic bags around with them.

I think you've pegged him correctly, Belsma!

Sociopaths prey upon those they believe they can manipulate and gentle souls. They behave the way they believe those they target would want them to. It was said that Taylor thought Johnny Depp was good looking. And sure enough, BF alters his appearance to look like Johnny Depp.

Scott Peterson did the same things. He once dated a girl who was a vegetarian, and so he too became a vegetarian. Inasmuch as sociopaths cannot relate to others emotionally, they mimic the behavior they cannot feel.

Once they are discovered, and they feel they are in danger of losing their targeted prey, they lash out violently.

IMO

csi_fan_01

01-26-2006, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

Yes, it had been reported that way. In fact, the plastic bag was considered as part of the premeditation since one doesn't normally carry large plastic bags around with them.

I think you've pegged him correctly, Belsma!

Sociopaths prey upon those they believe they can manipulate and gentle souls. They behave the way they believe those they target would want them to. It was said that Taylor thought Johnny Depp was good looking. And sure enough, BF alters his appearance to look like Johnny Depp.

Scott Peterson did the same things. He once dated a girl who was a vegetarian, and so he too became a vegetarian. Inasmuch as sociopaths cannot relate to others emotionally, they mimic the behavior they cannot feel.

Once they are discovered, and they feel they are in danger of losing their targeted prey, they lash out violently.

IMO

God, reading this is chilling. This could happen to all of us. Getting sucked in by an act. Heck people have married people like this...only to have them turn post nuptual. It's scary. Chilling indeed.

01-27-2006, 06:09 AM

There are several accounts online (Reihl World) of how "vanilla" and I use the exact word they used btw, Ben's sex life was with other people. One girl says she can't even imagine him deviating at all - he didn't seem that kind of person to her.

We do know that he attended a get together of some kind where the focus was on unorthodox sexual practices.

Perhaps it is as suggested above that he was a chameleon when it came to meeting and seducing people.

LADY2NOW

01-27-2006, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by Rowan Again

Yes, but remember that he's already established an "alibi" for any wounds he might have shown - the attack he reported to the police the night Taylor went missing.

Unfortunately, that is a situation that is neither provable or disprovable.

His "alibi" for the night Taylor went missing flew out the window as soon as he admitted to involvement in her death.

01-27-2006, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by LADY2NOW

His "alibi" for the night Taylor went missing flew out the window as soon as he admitted to involvement in her death.

Quite true!

LADY2NOW

01-27-2006, 10:36 AM

BF has some major credibility hurdles to leap if he's to defend his "accidental" death scenario--after all, he comes up with a really incredible "alibi" for the night of/morning after Taylor's disappearance, which is later belied by his admission of "involvement" (I use the term loosely) in her death. I'm assuming he dreamed up this "alibi " for 4 reasons:

1) to explain any physical signs of a struggle (let's hope the officer who took his report at least made a notation of any injuries BF was "sporting", even if photos weren't taken);
2) to explain his presence in the areas of Mathews and/or New Kent County in case someone spotted him;
3) to explain his use of his debit card for gas and other items at the Exxon station in New Kent County;
4) to throw suspicion on Erin "and friends" for Taylor's disappearance.

Now that we know his "alibi" was fictitious, I've been pondering something: Taylor was last seen around 10:20 p.m. on 9/05/05.
BF had to have been at the New Kent Exxon station sometime after 6 a.m. the morning after Taylor disappeared (as you may recall, the station is open from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m and the attendant/clerk said BF came inside the convenience store to pay for gas and to buy some other things). I wonder if the attendant/clerk noticed any physical signs of a struggle on BF's person?

nibblet

01-27-2006, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

..and thanks to the Lady for the link!

fawley looks like a 15 yr old kid in that picture........:shrug:

I'm a little behind in my posts but in the Gazette Journal photo, I think, yes, he looks like he is in his late teens but he also looks healthy to me. In fact, when they were walking him to the prison van, I was surprised he didn't come across as being shorter - he looked to be average height.

Of course he will be described as being pale - can't get much of a tan in prison. Another comment I heard was that he looked frail. Looked like he was capable of walking to me.

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by LADY2NOW
BF has some major credibility hurdles to leap if he's to defend his "accidental" death scenario--after all, he comes up with a really incredible "alibi" for the night of/morning after Taylor's disappearance, which is later belied by his admission of "involvement" (I use the term loosely) in her death. I'm assuming he dreamed up this "alibi " for 4 reasons:

1) to explain any physical signs of a struggle (let's hope the officer who took his report at least made a notation of any injuries BF was "sporting", even if photos weren't taken);
2) to explain his presence in the areas of Mathews and/or New Kent County in case someone spotted him;
3) to explain his use of his debit card for gas and other items at the Exxon station in New Kent County;
4) to throw suspicion on Erin "and friends" for Taylor's disappearance.

Now that we know his "alibi" was fictitious, I've been pondering something: Taylor was last seen around 10:20 p.m. on 9/05/05.
BF had to have been at the New Kent Exxon station sometime after 6 a.m. the morning after Taylor disappeared (as you may recall, the station is open from 6 a.m. to 10 p.m and the attendant/clerk said BF came inside the convenience store to pay for gas and to buy some other things). I wonder if the attendant/clerk noticed any physical signs of a struggle on BF's person?

Good Morning Lady!

I agree with your entire post, and your reasons why BF told the story of having been abducted and dropped out and picked up in an unfamiliar area.

I didn't know about the gas station's hours of operation, so that puts dampers on my hope of possibly proving BF lied about Taylor willingly accompanying him to Mathews County.

I believe the Pros might have compelling evidence to prove their charge of murder, BARD, inasmuch as BF confessed to having caused Taylor's death, albeit his accidental claim, yet the Pros continued to press the murder charge.

Hopefully Taylor's body yielded signs of a violent struggle in lieu of the consensual sex BF is purporting.

nibblet

01-27-2006, 11:03 AM

nibblet

01-27-2006, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by Rowan Again
And, as an aside to all of this, size really does not matter IF one is emotionally stimulated, like in rage or fear. Remember. A mother can pick up a truck if she fears for her child.

And keep in mind that he had the advantage of not only striking in anger but with no intent of stopping.

Taylor probably only knew the "nice" BF. Not the enraged BF with low tolerance for rejection. We may never know if she knew about the other women he attacked. Her guard wouldn't have been up.

For every second she didn't realize that he wasn't going to stop, he gained additional advantage on her - so I agree, size doesn't really matter especially when caught off-guard - a total suprise.

:(

nibblet

01-27-2006, 12:23 PM

In the past I felt strongly that everything occurred in his apartment in Richmond because I couldn't fathom driving to Mathews in the middle of the night.

With his obvious obsession with Erin in the months leading up to Labor Day, I wonder if he talked Taylor into a road trip to Mathews so he could drive by Erin's parent's house, thinking she was at her parent's house for the holiday.

I wonder if he had been stalking Erin by walking by her apartment over the summer; trying to see her when she was going to/leaving classes...trying to call her....

He was constantly trying to contact her via IM with the dozens of internet names he used.

He could have given Taylor a sob story or said, "Hey, you have to waste a few hours while your roommate entertains her boyfriend, let's take a road trip to the beach. We can be back in 3 hours." He definitely gave her some sort of story to get her to go to Mathews. She wouldn't have come up with that locale.

It is just so odd that they ended up by the Crabill's farm. Over 75 miles from Richmond. Then, after he murders her, dumps her body by the property. Comes back to Richmond and concocts that abduction story - again blaming Erin saying she put her friends up to it. Goes out on his site and writes about it.

For months, everything is Erin's fault. His upcoming breaking and entering court appearance - again, Erin's fault. The court appearance is now preventing him from traveling up north to see his kids - or is it south to help all of the hurricane victims?

Blame, blame, blame, deflect all responsiblity away from him.

That is why I strongly feel he transferred his rage against Erin to Taylor. At anytime, he could have stopped but he didn't.

I'm glad Mr. Crabill was at the arraignment the other day. He must definitely realize that Erin could have suffered the same horrible fate as Taylor.

I wonder if Erin was home when BF broke into Erin and Jonathan's apartment? I've only read of his conversations with Jonathan - chock full of excuses for breaking into their apartment.

LADY2NOW

01-27-2006, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

Good Morning Lady!

I agree with your entire post, and your reasons why BF told the story of having been abducted and dropped out and picked up in an unfamiliar area.

I didn't know about the gas station's hours of operation, so that puts dampers on my hope of possibly proving BF lied about Taylor willingly accompanying him to Mathews County.

I believe the Pros might have compelling evidence to prove their charge of murder, BARD, inasmuch as BF confessed to having caused Taylor's death, albeit his accidental claim, yet the Pros continued to press the murder charge.

Hopefully Taylor's body yielded signs of a violent struggle in lieu of the consensual sex BF is purporting.

Hey Paula! Greetings!

Reports indicated that the attendant/clerk said BF was alone. This would make sense if BF was on his way back from Mathews County en route to Richmond. This would also make sense if he was on his way to Mathews County and Taylor was in the trunk of the car or in a prone position in the backseat/floor of the car. What I find really creepy is the timeline--at least 7 and 1/2 hours between the time Taylor was last seen in her dorm (10/20 p.m. on 9/05) to the earliest time BF could have been spotted at the Exxon station (6 a.m. on 9/06 when it opened).

In his fictitious alibi, BF said he'd been abducted around dawn on 9/06 on Monument Avenue--very close to where he used to live, by the way--see map of "events" at:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/taylor_behl/maps.html

BF said he was thrown into a car, had a plastic bag put over his head, was driven to a remote location where he was dumped onto a dirt road. His camera was stolen. After some time, an unidentified Hispanic male picked him up. BF bought the guy gas at some gas station and the guy drove him back to Richmond. This whole fictitious scenario might IMO take about 3 to 3 1/2 hours (from around sun-up--which was at 6:20 a.m. on 9/06--to around 9:30 a.m. or 10:00 a.m.). I think this time period will be very important--in other words, was dawn on 9/06 around the actual time BF left Richmond for Mathews County with Taylor (either dead or alive, we may never know) and did he arrive back in Richmond around 9:30 or 10?

I began to realize that, when he made up his "alibi", he'd be trying to hide/account for his movements/activities around and immediately after the time of her death and not necessarily from the time she was actually last seen by someone else. At the time, he might not have known who saw her last nor at what time she was seen. Unless Taylor told him of her movements before running into him (which she probably did not since he initially said he saw her around 9:20 p.m. and walked her back to her dorm--we know that to be untrue), all he knew about was the time he himself spent with her. Maybe, just maybe, she left the dorm, went to her car, drove somewhere alone, and returned later to her usual parking spot--BF may indeed have been lying in wait for her if he saw her leave. He knew that, sooner or later, she'd return to her usual parking spot.

poplife

01-27-2006, 12:51 PM

Good thoughts, Lady. I still want to know what he did with her car for all those weeks. I wonder if he's confessed that to LE?

nibblet

01-27-2006, 12:56 PM

Written by Lady [insertions by nibblet]

BF said he [Taylor] was thrown into a car, had a plastic bag put over his [her] head, was driven to a remote location [Mathews] where he [she] was dumped onto [alongside/near] a dirt road. His camera was stolen [apparently he has a missing skateboard too]. After some time, an unidentified Hispanic male picked him up [BF stole Taylor's car]. BF bought the guy [himself] [just enough] gas at some gas station and the guy [BF] drove him[self] back to Richmond.

This whole fictitious [altered but true?] scenario might IMO take about 3 to 3 1/2 hours (from around sun-up--which was at 6:20 a.m. on 9/06--to around 9:30 a.m. or 10:00 a.m.). I think this time period will be very important--in other words, was dawn on 9/06 around the actual time BF left Richmond for Mathews County with Taylor (either dead or alive, we may never know) and did he arrive back in Richmond around 9:30 or 10?

[She had traveled from Northern VA that day, probably low on gas. He probably drove as far as he could to either get out of Richmond proper or being forced to get gas as he was on empty. Could have been easily on his way to Mathews - would explain the large plastic bag -- from his house.]

[Thanks Lady - great write-up! You just put me back into thinking that this could have really happened in Richmond.]

nibblet

01-27-2006, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel
.....ok, maybe I'm stupid........but apparently something has gone flying over my head.........that is fawley's prior residence by the place that the dog tracked to?? I never realized that before....what's up with that? :confused:

Good catch Angel - if you enter the addresses into mapquest, the dog scent and his old apartment are literally a block apart.

I think, I can't find the post, that it was SingleSix who had mentioned once that the apartments that BF had lived in previously were under renovation last fall.

Taylor's car could have been in that area all along and no one ever saw it. I wonder if there was a place to hide the car in that vicinity until it was found?

Is there a garage in the apartments that were under renovation? An alley way where it could have been undetected? SingleSix, if you were the one who posted that comment, is there an area he could have hidden the car for a few days around there?

How convenient he was "attacked" near the location of the car and the dog scent. I've often wondered if the second scent the dog picked up was Fawley's. LE had already conducted the first search on his home and would have had items with his scent. His scent would have been in the car.

What if he dumped the remaining items of Taylor's in this area?

:shrug:

LADY2NOW

01-27-2006, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by nibblet

Good catch Angel - if you enter the addresses into mapquest, the dog scent and his old apartment are literally a block apart.
...
What if he dumped the remaining items of Taylor's in this area?

:shrug:

I remember that posters were speculating last fall about the proximity of these two places. Does anyone remember if the address on BFD2's map (800 block of Sheppard) is the address of Jessie Shultz's apartment or the address of Shultz's aunt and uncle (the first house the dog tracked to)? Also, I call your attention to Mark Holmberg's article about the break-ins that occurred soon after the dog tracked a scent to Shultz's uncle's house:

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArticle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=103178517945

I always thought this was fishy.

LADY2NOW

01-27-2006, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by peeparoo

You may have already seen this, but apparently the hearing scheduled for today was rescheduled.

The link provided by LADY2NOW earlier led to this article, probably just recently issued:

http://www.wwbt.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WWBT%2FMGArticle%2FWBT_BasicArt icle&c=MGArticle&cid=1137833673626

peeps

Hi peeps!

Meant to thank you for this update. Things got crazy yesterday and I didn't have a chance to keep up with important news of the day (was having a drinking water system installed at my kitchen faucet and ice dispenser but they hooked it up to my toilet!!--would have been good for the dog, I guess...).

:D

L2N

nibblet

01-27-2006, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by LADY2NOW

Does anyone remember if the address on BFD2's map (800 block of Sheppard) is the address of Jessie Shultz's apartment or the address of Shultz's aunt and uncle (the first house the dog tracked to)?

According to the article, the 800 block of Sheppard is where the aunt and uncle live.

nibblet

01-27-2006, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by LADY2NOW

I...Also, I call your attention to Mark Holmberg's article about the break-ins that occurred soon after the dog tracked a scent to Shultz's uncle's house:

...I always thought this was fishy.

I wonder if they ever solved this or if this was another BF event?

LADY2NOW

01-27-2006, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by nibblet

According to the article, the 800 block of Sheppard is where the aunt and uncle live.

Hi nibblet!

That's what I originally thought, too, but I found these old posts on "Where Fawley Bought Gas" (10/31/05-11/01/05) in which singlesix set me straight:

"The map is wrong. The dog did NOT track to the 800 block of N. Sheppard St. It went to a house a number of blocks away...closer to where I live. "
...
"It would have be[en] simpler for everyone to keep straight if they [the aunt & uncle and the nephew] hadn't lived on the same street. Different blocks, same street."

and then this from Veracity (same thread):

"I thought that the dog went to the 500 block of N. Sheppard - from the 500 block of N. Mulberry-tracked from Taylor's car to Jesse's aunt and uncle home. Jesse actually lives on the 800 block, right?"

singlesix's response:

"Yep."

Thank you singlesix and Veracity!

01-27-2006, 03:02 PM

Okay, I'm dense. I'm not getting the connection here?

LADY2NOW

01-27-2006, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Gosh darn it (not what I really said), I don't remember that! When I learned that there was no connection between Taylor and Jess Schultz, then I just dismissed the whole thing and wrote it off as just another bad dog track...........

I thought it might be because of Shultz's work shirt. One report said he works in a pizzeria or something and LE took the shirt from the aunt and uncle's house. It's possible that Taylor, BF or anyone who'd recently been in her car had been to a pizza place (or any restaurant, for that matter) and had left "restaurant/pizza/cooking" smells in her car. Or, knowing that Jesse was a friend of Kevin's (Taylor's skateboarding friend), I wonder if BF ever went to Jesse's place of employment between the time he killed her and her car was found? Was he (BF) then in her car afterwards? I may be blowing smoke here, because I don't know exactly how scent-tracking dogs work, and the dog did track from the car to the aunt and uncle's house. Remember though, the car was found almost two weeks after Taylor's disappeance--who knows how many times BF was in the car in that two-week period and where he "roamed" afterwards.

LADY2NOW

01-27-2006, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

No, I'm the dense one.

AA and Rowen--

No one is dense! I may be the one creating a mountain out of a mole hill. But I don't always believe in coincidences. IMO, BF (weenie-boy) was a very busy boy between the time he (allegedly by accident) killed Taylor and the time he was arrested for child porn charges. He couldn't leave well-enough alone (in terms of the crime he'd committed and what he'd already tried to do to cover it up). IMO, I think he might have been trying to "create a scenario" where Taylor was murdered/disappeared in connection with her skateboarding buddies in case his attempts to point the finger in Erin's direction failed. I may be going way out on a limb here, but look at his actions after she went missing--he creates a really incredible (and by that I mean, hard to believe) alibi and then when she's officially reported missing, he seeks out Keven (named in media reports as someone who saw Taylor the Saturday before she disappeared as well as the night of her disappearnce) to find out "if he knows anything". Then Taylor's car is discovered (in a spot it had not been in several days prior to its discovery according to neighbors) and the media reports come out about the tracking dog. You've got to figure that BF was all over the media reports and maybe trying to figure out how he could work reported findings to his own advantage. Like I said, maybe I'm just blowing smoke, but BF wasn't just "going about his usual routine" between the time of Taylor's "disappearance" and his arrest. I think that things just happened a little faster than BF counted on, thanks to his possession of child porn...

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 04:42 PM

I have always thought that BF might have broken into Jessie's family's house in an attempt to "frame" Jessie for Taylor's disappearance.

I wonder if JS's family's house was searched for anything belonging to Taylor?

Among the items LE was told to search for in BF's apartment, under the warrant issued, was "burglary tools".

Parking Taylor's car so close to Jessie's family's house might be another indication that BF was attempting to implicate Jessie.

IMO

LADY2NOW

01-27-2006, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula
I have always thought that BF might have broken into Jessie's family's house in an attempt to "frame" Jessie for Taylor's disappearance.

I wonder if JS's family's house was searched for anything belonging to Taylor?

Among the items LE was told to search for in BF's apartment, under the warrant issued, was "burglary tools".

Parking Taylor's car so close to Jessie's family's house might be another indication that BF was attempting to implicate Jessie.

IMO
I'm with you on this train of thought.

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 05:05 PM

vedder

01-27-2006, 06:23 PM

"And just for added security, he put Taylor's body adjacent to Erin's family's house, in order to implicate her."

I have also heard that 1st time muderers tend to dispose of the body in an area the are very familiar with...

justathoughtdj

01-27-2006, 06:53 PM

I tend to agree with Nibblet and that it was more focused on Erin.

Maybe Taylor was going to her car to go skateboarding when bf saw her and asked her what she was doing out so late or something to that extent. Making small talk she could have said that she was just killing some time because her room mate had company. Then he asked her to give him a ride to Erin's parent's since he didn't have a car. He may have even offered to buy her gas for taking him. Being a person that is unable to say "no" she agreed since she knew his thoughts were on Erin and not her.

They get to Mathew's and drive past Erin's and either her car was not there or another car that belonged to a guy that bf would have known was sitting there. And that was what sat him off. Since he could not get to Erin with his anger Taylor was there so he took it out on her.

Who knows when Erin was not there or was not there alone, he could have started crying and Taylor tried to comfort him and that is when he took everying out on her and she would have never seen it coming.

I may be totally off. But this idea has been in the back of my mind since I heard about the case. I know at one point someone had posted on one of the boards that they thought that it was a "message" to Erin. I don't think so I think he was upset over Erin and just down the road is as far as he could control it.

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by vedder
"And just for added security, he put Taylor's body adjacent to Erin's family's house, in order to implicate her."

I have also heard that 1st time muderers tend to dispose of the body in an area the are very familiar with...

I think it was more than that for BF. Being an amateur photographer, I'm sure BF was familiar with many areas. Choosing that particular spot was more about Erin than merely selecting an area to dispose of Taylor's body.

IMO

justathoughtdj

01-27-2006, 07:17 PM

I know that when I was in college it didn't matter to me if it was a school night or not. If someone wanted or needed something of me I did it. I couldn't say "no"either :-(

csi_fan_01

01-27-2006, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel
There's so much we don't know. We'll know more during the trial. I just have a hard time believing Taylor would agree to drive all the way to Mathews on a school night. Maybe a Friday or Saturday, sure. But a school night?

I think fawley killed Taylor in Richmond and took her body to Mathews because it was his best option (long ways away, desolate, nothing but scattered houses and trees). It was a safe place that he knew. Maybe deep down inside Erin was the deciding factor in leaving it there instead of some other desolate place. Maybe.

Especially being a freshman. Usually freshmen are so excited to be "on their own" and "at COLLEGE" that they would be more out to try to turn in early so they can be alert for their first couple of weeks of classes.

As for Erin. I wonder if she did not have some prior knowledge of what happened. Usually if a perpetrator does something to get "even" with another, they will boast about it to the person or someone who will get the word to them.

Ben Fawley does not strike me as being the brightest bulb on the Christmas Tree but cunning enough to get this girl's (and others) attention in the first place. That is a bit unnerving to say the least.

vedder

01-27-2006, 07:28 PM

nibblet

01-27-2006, 08:12 PM

csi_fan_01

01-27-2006, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Maybe he didn't have time. The whole thing blew up. A lot of attention was focused on fawley's online stuff. Maybe he wanted to send a cryptic message to Erin but never found the opportunity.

I don't think fawley ever thought that a missing college freshman would draw the attention it did.

It's amazing that these guys (Fawley and Peterson) are so assinine to believe that these women missing would not draw any attention. It is always very telling about how insignificant they feel about themselves -- in the food chain of life. Perhaps, if they were the ones missing, no one would even care. I have no idea. I have been unable to find out much about Fawley's family situation or background. But one sign to me is the fact that he found pleasure in being the big fish in a small pond -- i.e. hanging out with skaters where he could easily be the grand pupa given his age. If I had been in the skaters' group, I would have been extremely leery of 38 year old guy trying infultrate the group but that's just me.

I mean think about it. He was old enough to be most of those kids' father. I just don't think I woud have found him all that interesting -- especially college kids who are aspiring to bigger and better things.

Can either of you tell me what all this mess about Erin is about? I had briefly glanced at some article that talked about her posing nude and all this other nonsense. I am really not enlightened on that facet either.

vedder

01-27-2006, 08:36 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nibblet

Like Peterson, he had no clue that the disappearance of his pregnant wife would draw national/worldwide press. [/QUOTE

I have often wondered about this..

Why is it that, they think everything will blow over in a few weeks and they will be able to go back to their life as usual?

For gods sake, Laci was missing for 2 weeks and Scott was trying to sell her car and was ordering hardcore porn at the house.

He KNEW she was not coming home

Another scumbag...

nibblet

01-27-2006, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by Peace

Haven't been on all day and I'm just catching up. Jonathan says Erin was asleep.

Thanks Peace - good thing Jonathan was there. No telling what would have happened had she been there alone that night.

singlesix

01-27-2006, 08:48 PM

I haven't heard anything more on the break-ins. Zip. Not a rumor.

You don't have to hide a car around here, all you have to do is park it on the street IF YOU CAN FIND A SPACE. :) Of course, changing the plates would help. There are 29,000 VCU students, plus former grads, dropouts, visitors, and the usual happy hour and late-night bar crowds. Oh, and the residents. Can't forget my neighbors.

Skulz's old apartment building at W. Grace St. and Wayne is still vacant. I can't figure out who would go to the trouble of doing a 95% rehab on 4 units, with central air, and then stop and let it sit.

JS's old apartment in the 800 block of Sheppard is a block away from Grace and Wayne. It's around the corner on Sheppard, but call it a block.

The aunt and uncle live a few more blocks away from Skulz's old place. The dog tracked a scent to their front steps - where 2 or 3 young guys, strangers, were seen sitting around midnight or so. The dog was not taken into the house, but did go up onto the front porch sometime later after the house was searched by the totally cooperative aunt and uncle. I was told the shirt in question was found on the front porch.

Maybe it'll all come out at the trial or after the gag order is lifted. I'm as curious as anybody.

singlesix

LADY2NOW

01-27-2006, 08:49 PM

vedder

01-27-2006, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by nibblet

Thanks Peace - good thing Jonathan was there. No telling what would have happened had she been there alone that night.

I wonder why Jonathan didn't grab a baseball bat or something and beat him half to death.(I know I would have)

BF was built like a 12 year old girl,I cant imagine it taking much too scare his *** out of there...

nibblet

01-27-2006, 08:59 PM

Thanks singlesix - I can only identify a few of my neighbors' cars - don't even know the people across the street...

As for Erin being at her parent's house for Labor Day - just a shot in the dark. Still trying to figure out why of all places did they go to Mathews. He was familiar with many areas around Richmond but he chooses Mathews so I can only figure it has to do with Erin.

BF clearly obsessed about her from his writings and actions. With the court appearance looming I can only surmise he was obsessed about that and still blaming her.

When the guy latches onto something/someone he doesn't let go easily - remember ALL those pictures of the nowhere van? There had to have been over 30 internet pages of pictures of a van with stickers!

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by Peace

Vedder - I've wondered that myself. Was it aimed towards Erin or was it just a place he knew?

BF seemed to be obsessed with Erin, so I think putting Taylor's body on Erin's family's property was aimed at Erin, and not merely a familiar place. I am sure, that as an amateur photographer, BF knew a number of other places, many likely closer to Richmond.

IMO

nibblet

01-27-2006, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by vedder

I wonder why Jonathan didn't grab a baseball bat or something and beat him half to death.(I know I would have)

BF was built like a 12 year old girl,I cant imagine it taking much too scare his *** out of there...

Even if he had broken into my place WITHOUT the hammer and mace, I would have been supremely pissed!

vedder

01-27-2006, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by Peace

Vedder - I've wondered that myself. Was it aimed towards Erin or was it just a place he knew?

Hi Peace

Paula believes he left her poor body there to frame Erin...

I believe it was just the first place he thought of( I cant imagine one thinking all that clearly after you had just murdered someone.You would think "auto pilot" would just kick in...)

Maybe he thought about framing Erin AFTER he desposed of the body on the way home....

nibblet

01-27-2006, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

BF seemed to be obsessed with Erin, so I think putting Taylor's body on Erin's family's property was aimed at Erin, and not merely a familiar place. I am sure, that as an amateur photographer, BF knew a number of other places, many likely closer to Richmond.

IMO

I agree - Hi Paula!:seeya:

I went through the documents showing what was retrieved during the search to see if there was any mention of a box of trash bags.

There were items that were taken in trash bags but it wasn't clear if these already in bags by BF or in LE's evidence bags.

nibblet

01-27-2006, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by Peace

Here is his reply to that . . .
Well first of all, I was naked
Second of all, I am not a violent person.

And he probably recognized the person breaking in before reacting!

vedder

01-27-2006, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Peace

Here is his reply to that . . .
Well first of all, I was naked
Second of all, I am not a violent person.

LOL,well of course he was naked...

I am not a violent person either,until someone breaks into MY HOME...Then we have a problem...

nibblet

01-27-2006, 09:22 PM

Well, sadly we may never know how much time elapsed between the time he murdered her and the time he left her in Mathews.

Which is why I keep flip-flopping between the murder happening in Richmond and Mathew - or even another location. With the gas station in New Kent being closed from the time she was last seen until 6:00 am, he had to have gotten gas early that morning. My guess is that he attacked her a few hours earlier - enough time to plan out leaving her in Mathews.

What day did he write about the abduction on his site? Is that site still up?

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by vedder

Hi Peace

Paula believes he left her poor body there to frame Erin...

I believe it was just the first place he thought of( I cant imagine one thinking all that clearly after you had just murdered someone.You would think "auto pilot" would just kick in...)

Maybe he thought about framing Erin AFTER he desposed of the body on the way home....

I don't know that BF put Taylor's body there to frame Erin, or to scare her. Either way, I do believe the reason he chose that location involved Erin in some way, other than just knowing that spot.

I'm sure BF knew of a closer location - one that would not have required him to use his credit card to purchase gas to get back to Richmond.

IMO

nibblet

01-27-2006, 09:26 PM

BF certainly degraded and humiliated Erin - I don't think I could have kept my cool. I would have squished that little worm back into his hole - and I'm much shorter than BF!!

vedder

01-27-2006, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by Peace

Hi back, Vedder -
I don't know. My heart breaks for Erin, too, as this has really freaked her out. She's a really sweet, gentle lady. My first reaction when Ben confessed to killing her was that he'd done it to threaten Erin in some way. I don't know - it was just a gut reaction to the news. It made me angry that he would just dump Taylor there like she wasn't important. That he would not only so horribly degrade Taylor like that, but also degrading Erin by leaving her so close. My understanding is that she was VERY close to the property line.
I know Taylor had been to my house a few times, but there were always 4-10 friends "hanging out" when Mike was home and they would watch movies in the family room. I didn't sit with them when they watched movies and I sort of remember Taylor being there because she turned around and smiled. It's her smile I remember. And I remember going to the Starbucks where she worked - I don't normally go to that one. She made my Cafe Mocha. And again - it's her smile I remember. Otherwise I'm not sure that I'd remember her at all. Her smile lit up her eyes and warms your heart. I know you've all been drawn by her smile.

Its her smile we ALL remember Peace

I believe its the main reason we all fell in love with her...

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by nibblet
Well, sadly we may never know how much time elapsed between the time he murdered her and the time he left her in Mathews.

Which is why I keep flip-flopping between the murder happening in Richmond and Mathew - or even another location. With the gas station in New Kent being closed from the time she was last seen until 6:00 am, he had to have gotten gas early that morning. My guess is that he attacked her a few hours earlier - enough time to plan out leaving her in Mathews.

What day did he write about the abduction on his site? Is that site still up?

Hi Nibblet! :seeya:

Somehow, I find it hard to believe Taylor would agree to accompany BF to Mathews County.

I wonder if Taylor's car yielded any info in this regard? Claiming he had consensual sex in Taylor's car leads me to believe BF might have attacked Taylor there.

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

He didn't want a closer spot. He wanted to be as far away as possible.

I wonder how long he was kicking himself for not bringing cash?

Apparently BF isn't too bright or he would have realized that Erin could connect him to Taylor's murder, after having placed her body on Erin's family's property.

What are the odds of a total stranger putting Taylor's body on Erin's family's property? This is why I believe BF put Taylor's body there with Erin in mind, other than merely being familiar with the location.

IMO

nibblet

01-27-2006, 09:39 PM

Did he actually use his credit card at the gas station? Wow. He must have been driving on fumes. Didn't he say that when he was abducted that they didn't get his credit card but they took the $20 or some small amount? ...alibi....

I need to go back and do some more reading. :read:

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by nibblet
Did he actually use his credit card at the gas station? Wow. He must have been driving on fumes. Didn't he say that when he was abducted that they didn't get his credit card but they took the $20 or some small amount? ...alibi....

I need to go back and do some more reading. :read:

Yes! BF did use his cc to buy $20 worth of gas in Lawrence, (IIRC) which is midway between Richmond and Mathews Co.

vedder

01-27-2006, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

Apparently BF isn't too bright or he would have realized that Erin could connect him to Taylor's murder, after having placed her body on Erin's family's property.

What are the odds of a total stranger putting Taylor's body on Erin's family's property? This is why I believe BF put Taylor's body there with Erin in mind, other than merely being familiar with the location.

IMO

See thats the problem with these losers( BF, Scott Peterson)...They never think they are GOING TO GET CAUGHT...

nibblet

01-27-2006, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

I wouldn't want an angry nibblet after me! :)

Arghhhhhh!

Actually, when I was Taylor's age I was incredibly trusting and may not have reacted as quickly to an attack as I would today. It took only a few years in the corporate world to change that way of being.

nibblet

01-27-2006, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

Yes! BF did use his cc to buy $20 worth of gas in Lawrence, (IIRC) which is midway between Richmond and Mathews Co.

Now I find that very interesting that he spent $20 on gas. That would have probably been somewhere around a half tank. What else did he have in mind with the car? I would have expected him to have spent a few dollars to get the car back to Richmond. Was the $20 inclusive of the other items he bought or just gas?

From Dept of Energy article - Factors Behind the Increase in Gasoline Prices in 2005

Since the beginning of 2005, U.S. retail gasoline prices have been generally in-creasing, with the average price of regular gasoline rising from $1.78 per gallon on January 3 to as high as $3.07 per gallon on September 5, as Hurricane Katrina further tightened gasoline supplies.

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by nibblet
BF certainly degraded and humiliated Erin - I don't think I could have kept my cool. I would have squished that little worm back into his hole - and I'm much shorter than BF!!

He humiliated Erin on the internet as well. BF even set up a website just to bash Erin. Talk about being obsessed!

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Somebody refresh my memory. How old is Erin?

I think she is either 22 or 23.

vedder

01-27-2006, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

He humiliated Erin on the internet as well. BF even set up a website just to bash Erin. Talk about being obsessed!

Right...

Now here comes Taylor and SHE rejects him as well...

Taylor said she could be a "Bi#@h" and I believe she may have started to verbally attack his frail little ego ...and he just lost it

BF was a train wating to derail for months and Taylor was in the wrong place at the wrong time...

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 10:11 PM

Here is a link to Steve Huff's article on Crime Library's site describing the relationship between BF and Erin.

Ben Fawley/Erin Crabill Relationship (http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/taylor_behl/ec_1.html)

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by vedder

Right...

Now here comes Taylor and SHE rejects him as well...

Taylor said she could be a "Bi#@h" and I believe she may have started to verbally attack his frail little ego ...and he just lost it

BF was a train wating to derail for months and Taylor was in the wrong place at the wrong time...

When BF killed Taylor, he was really killing Erin. However, he couldn't bear to actually kill Erin, herself, because as he wrote in one of his LJ's, he still held onto the hope of being reunited with her one day.

When Taylor rejected his advances, in BF's mind, it was Erin who was once again rejecting him.

IMO

nibblet

01-27-2006, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

When BF killed Taylor, he was really killing Erin. However, he couldn't bear to actually kill Erin, herself, because as he wrote in one of his LJ's, he still held onto the hope of being reunited with her one day.

When Taylor rejected his advances, in BF's mind, it was Erin who was once again rejecting him.

IMO

I think it is incredible that he is on an obsessive rant about Erin for weeks/months before Taylor is murdered - he commits a horrific act ending the life of a human - and then continues to obsess and blame Erin and 24 hours hasn't even passed!

It's always someone else's fault with this guy!
:cuss:

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by nibblet

I think it is incredible that he is on an obsessive rant about Erin for weeks/months before Taylor is murdered - he commits a horrific act ending the life of a human - and then continues to obsess and blame Erin and 24 hours hasn't even passed!

It's always someone else's fault with this guy!
:cuss:

As is the case with most sociopaths, even those who don't murder their victims. Nothing is ever their fault. It's always someone else who caused them to lash out.

BF was totally obsessed with Erin.

IMO

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

WTF is it with obsession? Not to make light of the situation, but I remember being heartbroken once and my boss says to me "Don't worry about it. Women are like buses. You miss one and the next one will be along soon."

Maybe fawley thinks that he and Erin can get married when he gets out of prison.....many many years from now....:rolleyes:

I wonder if Erin Crabill will be the Amber Frey of this trial, insofar as revealing BF's mindset and dark side.

I think her testimony will reveal just how obsessed BF was, and what he was capable of.

nibblet

01-27-2006, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

I wonder if Erin Crabill will be the Amber Frey of this trial, insofar as revealing BF's mindset and dark side.

I think her testimony will reveal just how obsessed BF was, and what he was capable of.

Hopefully LE was able to retrieve all of the email/IMs that he sent to her. I think she tried blocking as much as possible but he kept changing his IM name.

You'd think they had dated forever but in actuality from reading what Jonathan wrote on RiehlWorld, it was only about a month.

nibblet

01-27-2006, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

WTF is it with obsession? Not to make light of the situation, but I remember being heartbroken once and my boss says to me "Don't worry about it. Women are like buses. You miss one and the next one will be along soon."

Maybe fawley thinks that he and Erin can get married when he gets out of prison.....many many years from now....:rolleyes:

But you moved on, right? This guy apparently can't and drives people away from him whether it is a friendship or a relationship.

Think how he'll be treated in prison if he acts out there. He won't last too long without a pummeling.

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by nibblet

Hopefully LE was able to retrieve all of the email/IMs that he sent to her. I think she tried blocking as much as possible but he kept changing his IM name.

You'd think they had dated forever but in actuality from reading what Jonathan wrote on RiehlWorld, it was only about a month.

I read quite a bit myself on BF's (Skulz) LJ's, and at the site he created merely to bash Erin.

When I read his rantings, it sounded as though he wanted to humiliate Erin to the point of stirring enough anger in her that she would call and demand that he stop the attack. I think he wanted to communicate with Erin that badly that he intentionally provoked her.

Knowing someone for only a month and behaving that way, reminds me of the Glenn Close character in the movie Fatal Attraction.

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Oh yeah, I moved on. Right after my boss said that, he also said "Now get back to work". He was right, women are like buses.

I don't get fawley's obsession. I sure don't understand being obsessed with someone so much younger!

Older women could see through him??

A mature woman would likely find BF immature, as he doesn't seem to have the mind of a 38 year old man.

Obviously, since BF enjoys child porn {{shudder}}, it is doubtful he would be attracted to a mature woman.

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

I remember Peace saying something about him not having the mind of a 38 yr old.

I wonder what sort of relationship BF had/has with the mother of his two daughters?

Hey Paula

01-27-2006, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

I tend to lose sight of the fact that he was, in fact, the father of two girls. That whole line of thought would tend to start ticking me off even more than I am.

What of the two daughters and the mother of those kids??

Two little girls and their mother.

Jeez....I'm starting to feel that anger again.

For their sakes, I hope they can find a way to remain anonymous and detached from BF, as it might be difficult for them to lead a normal life with the BF stigma attached to them.

nibblet

01-27-2006, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

When I read his rantings, it sounded as though he wanted to humiliate Erin to the point of stirring enough anger in her that she would call and demand that he stop the attack. I think he wanted to communicate with Erin that badly that he intentionally provoked her.

I wonder if he tried to contact her to see if Jonathan would drop the B&E charge (if possible). As it turned out, he never received notice of the court date , wasn't there, and it was dropped or whatever the official term is.

nibblet

01-27-2006, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

For their sakes, I hope they can find a way to remain anonymous and detached from BF, as it might be difficult for them to lead a normal life with the BF stigma attached to them.

She has remained out of the media to date but if he ever attacked her, she may have to testify. I hope the little girls are ok.

vedder

01-28-2006, 05:39 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hey Paula
[B]

"A mature woman would likely find BF immature, as he doesn't seem to have the mind of a 38 year old man"

Can you imagine ANY woman over the age of 25 finding him appealing??

Lets see...

38 years old
No job
No money
No car
No licence
No home
Shares an apartment with 20 year old kids..

They would think "LOSER" and that he had serious,serious issues and would want nothing to do with him.

This is what I don't understand Peace,You are a very ,very bright woman,yet you did not see that BF was emotionally retarded with a severe case of arrested development????

Help me understand...

csi_fan_01

01-28-2006, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by vedder
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hey Paula

Can you imagine ANY woman over the age of 25 finding him appealing??

Lets see...

38 years old
No job
No money
No car
No licence
No home
Shares an apartment with 20 year old kids..

They would think "LOSER" and that he had serious,serious issues and would want nothing to do with him.

This is what I don't understand Peace,You are a very ,very bright woman,yet you did not see that BF was emotionally retarded with a severe case of arrested development????

Help me understand..

Of course, no woman Ben's age would find him appealing. If they want those qualities they could date someone in the early 20s -- that is if they are just dating someone for good sex.

This is exactly what I meant by he likes to be a big fish in a bitty pond. He hangs out with teenagers and 20 years olds because he is looked to as being cool merely because he's in his late 30s. (I guess.)

If anyone had bothered to read my prior posts they would see I did say the above. But like Richmond, it's cliques-ville. How dare Harvey tread people even bother to post on Taylor Behl treads. ACK!:rolleyes:

Just realized, the most prominent murders of late are all in Richmond. Says something doesn't it... Oh well. :mad:

csi_fan_01

01-28-2006, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by Peace

Erin knew Ben for longer than a month. But I believe they'd only been dating for about a month.

You seem to have the inside track into this whole situation, Peace. Are you sure you are supposed to be posting on this board? If you are called by either side to be a witness you have damaged your stature by sharing this info on a message board.

jrporter

01-28-2006, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by LADY2NOW

"fawley looks like a 15 yr old kid in that picture........"

Yes, he does look young--is this going to be a plus or a minus for the prosecution when it comes to the trial?

I think that a youthful appearance in court will soften the appearance of a "dirty old man" preying on a 17 year old. However, knowing a little about Mathews folk, I think that his appearance will ultimately matter less than the notoriety and infamy that he brought to their county. Living in Mathews for a bit in the mid-seventies, I found the people to be very friendly but clearly made a distinction between natives and "come-latelys" and "come-heres."

jrporter

01-28-2006, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by nibblet

Funny you mentioned Peter Pan - "I don't want to grow up..."

Is the Peter Pan Syndrome a real psychiatric term?

Only if you're Michael Jackson's attorney.

csi_fan_01

01-28-2006, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Peace

Perhaps you'd missed my original posting. I'm Mike's mother. I am not under a gag order. Neither is Mike. I'm not divulging any secrets. I really don't know anything specifically relevant to the case itself - just prior. I see no reason why I'd be called as a witness. I'm not even sure that Mike would - we certainly hope not. I know Mike, Erin and Ben - I met Taylor. I email with Jonathan. That's about it. I don't think any of that would affect the case itself.
It must be chilling for you to have known Ben. I think if I were you, I would probably drive myself nuts going back over every second of interaction with him to see if there were any clues. It must be very difficult. Worse yet, if you son lived with this guy, he could have taken this rage out on your son -- and I am glad for him and you that that was not the case. This guy sounds like a powder keg that blew.

csi_fan_01

01-28-2006, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Peace

CSI - as I go back and reread this, I realize this came out sounding sort of snotty. My apologies as that's not the way I meant it to come out. I appreciate what you're saying. I only meant to explain who I was in case you hadn't read my original post (thread's gone - don't bother with a search) so you'd know who I was and where I was coming from. I'm just someone who knows the people but am not important to the case at all. Sorry to come across that way.
You didn't sound snotty at all. I was just merely concerned that if you were called as a witness, it would be an infringement and i don't want Ben to get off on a technicality of any kind! He should pay for what he did to that girl. There is no doubt in my mind that he and the rest of the world knew it was no accident. There are plenty of places in Richmond (his own apartment in fact) where two people can have sex. It was unnecessary to drive all the way to Madison unless malicious intent was there to begin with.

I hope you're not called as a witness because of all the ugliness that is involved in being a witness. Now days, witnesses are torn apart and their personal lives are held up for scrutiny. And I would not wish that on anyone!

csi_fan_01

01-28-2006, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by Peace

And I see a lot of people who have anger issues - that doesn't make them killers.

That's a very true and excellent point. People with anger issues do not always kill. There are some people who do not have anger issues who kill.

It's just really so sad.

jrporter

01-28-2006, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Busy ben was doing all this misdirecting and framing but forgot to get rid of the child porn. That's what amazes me. He had to know that he'd eventually end up under a microscope. He had to know that his computers would be searched. Child porn with a one year old little baby? C'mon. It's like he left a ton of crystal meth in the basement because he didn't think the cops would look down there.

I think it's a mistake to look at Fawley's actions and reactions regarding Taylor's murder as sociopathic. No matter what we think of him, his predatory lifestyle, and his heinous murder of Ms. Behl, he had a diagnosed Bipolar Disorder. He would have needed very convincing history and documentation of it to receive disability based on this psychiatric disorder. I don't mean to make excuses for his actions, either before, during, or after the crime; but I think that the symptoms of this disorder better explain why he overlooked things that appear to be obvious "tells" to rational folks not involved in either the heat of the moment or the scramble to cover it up. I believe that he killed Taylor during a manic phase and probably transferred his feelings of rejection by Erin, and other women for that matter, onto TB. According to DSM IV, a manic phase may be marked by one or more of the following: "inflated self-esteem or gradiosity; decreased need for sleep; more talkative than usual; flight of ideas or subjective experience that thoughts are racing; distractibility (attention too easily drawn to unimportant or irrelevant external stimuli); psychomotor agitation; and/or excessive involvement in pleasurable activities that have a high potential for painful consequences." After cycling into the depressive phase of the disorder, he may have felt guilt about what he had done and left the porn or other incriminating stuff about so that he would ultimately be punished.

jrporter

01-28-2006, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

So you think he may have left the porn there on purpose? :confused:

I'm saying it's a possibility that he felt guilt after crashing and left this material there in the event he was caught. He would probably feel the need to be punished during the subsequent depressive phase and not really care about covering his guilt or his porn activities. A former co-worker of mine is doing 100 years for several counts of child molestation that were said to span a 10-year period. He was caught because he left his drivers license at the scene of the last attack. I visited him in prison and asked if he left his license on purpose so he'd be stopped. He couldn't remember many of the details of the attack that I'd read about in the arrest report, including leaving his license. After working in mental hospitals and prisons over the past 25 years, I've come to realize that nobody is either all bad or all good. My point in bringing in the information about bipolar was that I'd think that for BF to receive SSI based on this, he would probably need very extensive documentation and that its symptoms would probably better account, but not excuse, his actions leading up to, during, and following the murder. I would not be surprised if he dropped the "I killed her during passionate sex" defense and went for NGRI.

vedder

01-28-2006, 01:03 PM

Peace..

''Not that he was a "model citizen", just that he was a kid who'd hit hard times throughout his life and was just trying to get through"

See, Thats the problem...He WASN'T a "kid" Peace...he was a grown man trying to ACT like a kid...He was almost 40 , yet no one in his life was over the age of 22...

How long was this going to continue, He turns 42,44,48 etc...How long did he think he was going to pull this off.

He was a few short years away from "dirty old man"....You can see this coming from a mile away. And I'm guessing the OLDER he got the YOUNGER his "taste" in girls would be...Scary thought,Is it not?

At what age would he NOT be able to con and manipulate young girls into dating him....THEN what happens??? What would Happen....

Do you see where I am going with this??

nibblet

01-28-2006, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Peace

...It's bothered me that I could never see this side of Ben. There's still a part that has trouble with it. I'm usually a pretty good judge of character and get instant feelings about people. I never got any about Ben... .

Sadly with people like this, if they don't want you to see this side of them then you won't. If there is an episode then people write it off as stress, etc., it won't happen again. They are chameleons with their personalities and interactions with people.

nibblet

01-28-2006, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by jrporter

Only if you're Michael Jackson's attorney.

:lol:

csi_fan_01

01-28-2006, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by vedder

''Not that he was a "model citizen", just that he was a kid who'd hit hard times throughout his life and was just trying to get through"

See, Thats the problem...He WASN'T a "kid" Peace...he was a grown man trying to ACT like a kid...He was almost 40 , yet no one in his life was over the age of 22...

How long was this going to continue, He turns 42,44,48 etc...How long did he think he was going to pull this off.

He was a few short years away from "dirty old man"....You can see this coming from a mile away. And I'm guessing the OLDER he got the YOUNGER his "taste" in girls would be...Scary thought,Is it not?

At what age would he NOT be able to con and manipulate young girls into dating him....THEN what happens??? What would Happen....

Do you see where I am going with this??

She might not see but I do. I have often thought it was strange when older folks (Ben's age) hang out with teenagers. I think I would have been leery at best for my child to live with someone like this - medication or not.

I probably would have gently persuaded my child to seek shelter elsewhere. But that's just me.

Ben Fawley, it appears, was just a guy who liked being a big fish in a very small pond. Doesn't sound like he was mature enough to handle women in their 30s -- or late 20s. He saw everyone as prey. Someone who would listen to a sob story. Someone who would buy it.

A kid on hard tiimes, I don't really buy because he was old enough to make decisions and stand by consequences. So falling on hard times was a "choice." There are plenty of bipolar people out there that go to a real job, have a family, are married, own homes, have car payments - yet they are still productive. What did this guy contribute to the world besides wasting oxygen?

vedder

01-28-2006, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by csi_fan_01

She might not see but I do. I have often thought it was strange when older folks (Ben's age) hang out with teenagers. I think I would have been leery at best for my child to live with someone like this - medication or not.

I probably would have gently persuaded my child to seek shelter elsewhere. But that's just me.

Ben Fawley, it appears, was just a guy who liked being a big fish in a very small pond. Doesn't sound like he was mature enough to handle women in their 30s -- or late 20s. He saw everyone as prey. Someone who would listen to a sob story. Someone who would buy it.

A kid on hard tiimes, I don't really buy because he was old enough to make decisions and stand by consequences. So falling on hard times was a "choice." There are plenty of bipolar people out there that go to a real job, have a family, are married, own homes, have car payments - yet they are still productive. What did this guy contribute to the world besides wasting oxygen?

I'm 36 years old, and I do not know ANYONE my age who hangs out with/ dates kids who are just into their early twentys....because thats what they ARE....KIDS...

What could we possibly have in common with them?

Their is nothing worse than the old guy at the bar trying to pick up really young girls...it never works and they just look PATHETIC...how do they not see this?

What BF was doing was completly UNACCEPTABLE.I cannot beliveve someone father or older brother was not kicking the hell out of him on a regular basis...

csi_fan_01

01-28-2006, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

If you're a girl that old, and you're dating a really young guy, then......I don't really know what to think....:shrug:

then you're dating them just for sex.

csi_fan_01

01-28-2006, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by vedder

I'm 36 years old, and I do not know ANYONE my age who hangs out with/ dates kids who are just into their early twentys....because thats what they ARE....KIDS...

What could we possibly have in common with them?

Their is nothing worse than the old guy at the bar trying to pick up really young girls...it never works and they just look PATHETIC...how do they not see this?

What BF was doing was completly UNACCEPTABLE.I cannot beliveve someone father or older brother was not kicking the hell out of him on a regular basis...

Vedder, the truth is is that desperation is the world's worst perfume. He could not get someone his age because no woman in her right mind would go there. As for the pity moms, the women who want to "fix" him... I find it very telling that even those women don't want to go there.

The child porn was just really disgusting. I am shocked that he's not getting harassed in prison for that.

vedder

01-28-2006, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by csi_fan_01

Vedder, the truth is is that desperation is the world's worst perfume. He could not get someone his age because no woman in her right mind would go there. As for the pity moms, the women who want to "fix" him... I find it very telling that even those women don't want to go there.

The child porn was just really disgusting. I am shocked that he's not getting harassed in prison for that.

Just wait...The ''harassment'' will be on its way..

The little ****er has NO IDEA what is in store for him

Im not afraid to admit, thinking about this is one of the few things that give me pleasure here...

csi_fan_01

01-28-2006, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by peeparoo

There have been some posts that I would LOVE to respond to, but unfortunately I have commitments this weekend that don't allow me the time.

However, regarding this one and any others that refer to Ben's mental state, I would definitely suggest that if you are not an expert in the mental health field, or if you are not well-versed on the subject, you do some additional research.

It is not a "choice" to fall on hard times when a serious mental health problem is involved. There are many issues involved that go beyond making choices. Yes, there are bipolar people who can be productive, but there are probably more who unavoidably and unintentionally fall on hard times.

You may or not be aware that the diagnostic criteria for bipolar is categorized into several classifications/levels of the condition. Issues around those levels and their traits are still being studied and fine tuned. Everyone is different--the human brain is not programmed to be consistent, predictable or designed to be exclusively and definitively slotted into one category. Individual behaviors, reactions to medications, etc. make this an imperfect science to say the least. Once you get involved in mental health treatment, people become (in my opinion) "guinea pigs", diagnoses and treatments are basically made on a trial and error basis and involve a lot of follow-up.

Don't take this as my defending Ben. I just don't agree that it's appropriate to make generalized statements and judgments about the behaviors and expectations of people with mental illness.

peeparoo

Peep, while I respect what you posted.... the person I know that is a functioning bipolar is a retired FBI agent who has been highly accommodated and was able to work from being the low man on the totem pole all the way up to being highly regarded as an expert in several different areas of crime.

Now he is making over 160K for the attorney general's office. When he retired from service prior to the AGO, he was making well over 100K a year.

While he is possessive over his dog and displays some weird oddities, relatively speaking, now that he is on his medicine he is fine. BTW, for most of his career, he was not on medication and was not diagnosed.

He holds a bachelors and a Masters and was accepted to several law schools but decided not to pursue that track. He has a wife and one daughter.

For some reason, even though this guy can carry legally -- and does -- I have never feared for my friend's (his wife) life. He has made very wise decisions in his life... and he puts child pornographers away -- he is not one himself.

Is he an exception? The only guy with this disease that does not experience a life like what Fawley had? I have known him for over ten years and he has never displayed enough to warrant anyone to be in "fear."

Not to be disrespectful, but I believe a lot of people don't put much credence into these "mental illnesses" because now days, no one is just an a***ole, they have some mental problem. It sounds more like a scapegoat, an excuse for bad behavior.

Hey Paula

01-28-2006, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by Peace

I know Ben was very proud of his daughters. His eyes would like up and he'd comment about how smart they were. I think he only saw them in the summer. I think he had the sort of relationship you would imagine between "ex's", but I don't quite remember. I know we'd talked about it, but that was a couple of years ago.

Unfortunately, my understanding from past readings is that his daughters had been receiving death threats because of the blogs. Someone who knows them had written in when speculation turned to Ben, but I think it was right after they found Taylor. I believe the poster said his ex remarried and was living happily. It's why I worry about the words that are said and the backlash on innocent people such as his daughters. They've certainly done nothing wrong, but I would imagine they love their father and it must hurt to have an inkling as to what's being said. I just hope that they don't read any of these logs.

BF should have known that Taylor's mom and dad were very proud of theirr daughter too, and that their eyes lit up when they saw Taylor, just as his did when he saw his daughters.

BF should have treated Taylor the way he would want other men to treat his minor daughters.

I can't imagine how BF's poor little girls will feel, and what might be said, while the trial is underway and publicized, knowing their father had child pornography videos on his computer, and that he killed Taylor, who was still a child herself.

If BF truly loved his daughters, he should have thought about them before he defiled the children of others.

IMO

csi_fan_01

01-28-2006, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

BF should have known that Taylor's mom and dad were very proud of theirr daughter too, and that their eyes lit up when they saw Taylor, just as his did when he saw his daughters.

BF should have treated Taylor the way he would want other men to treat his minor daughters.

I can't imagine how BF's poor little girls will feel, and what might be said, while the trial is underway and publicized, knowing their father had child pornography videos on his computer, and that he killed Taylor, who was still a child herself.

If BF truly loved his daughters, he should have thought about them before he defiled the children of others.

IMO

I was really struck by the truth that rang throughout your post. Thank you for saying what had been on mind since the beginning. :beer:

vedder

01-28-2006, 05:25 PM

platinumgold

01-28-2006, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

BF should have known that Taylor's mom and dad were very proud of theirr daughter too, and that their eyes lit up when they saw Taylor, just as his did when he saw his daughters.

BF should have treated Taylor the way he would want other men to treat his minor daughters.

I can't imagine how BF's poor little girls will feel, and what might be said, while the trial is underway and publicized, knowing their father had child pornography videos on his computer, and that he killed Taylor, who was still a child herself.

If BF truly loved his daughters, he should have thought about them before he defiled the children of others.

IMO

Well said Paula. All children count! Whether its the victims family or the accused, their lives will never be the same. And that is due to the perp who committed this horror.

moo

Hey Paula

01-28-2006, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by platinumgold

Well said Paula. All children count! Whether its the victims family or the accused, their lives will never be the same. And that is due to the perp who committed this horror.

moo

Absolutely, PG!

The Golden Rule should always rule! If it did, there would be little, if any, crime.

IMO

Hey Paula

01-28-2006, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Does anybody know if this is factual? Have fawley's daughters been receiving death threats?

What kind of idiot would do that?

That is awful. Those children cannot, and should not, be tormented or held liable for the sins of their father.

nibblet

01-28-2006, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Does anybody know if this is factual? Have fawley's daughters been receiving death threats?

What kind of idiot would do that?

The threat was not made on the Court TV board - there is a site where a comment was made by a poster that said he/she hoped an amber alert goes out for his kids. BF's address was posted; another comment was made for people in Virginia throw things, including gasoline, through BF's windows. It ended with the girls names followed by "...".

The stepfather responded by saying the FBI and the police for his jurisdiction had been notified.

If there were other threats then I am unaware of them.

As I recall, the post appeared about the time Taylor was found.

nibblet

01-28-2006, 08:14 PM

Oh, and very eloquent post, Paula!

justathoughtdj

01-28-2006, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by csi_fan_01

Peep, while I respect what you posted.... the person I know that is a functioning bipolar is a retired FBI agent who has been highly accommodated and was able to work from being the low man on the totem pole all the way up to being highly regarded as an expert in several different areas of crime.

Now he is making over 160K for the attorney general's office. When he retired from service prior to the AGO, he was making well over 100K a year.

While he is possessive over his dog and displays some weird oddities, relatively speaking, now that he is on his medicine he is fine. BTW, for most of his career, he was not on medication and was not diagnosed.

He holds a bachelors and a Masters and was accepted to several law schools but decided not to pursue that track. He has a wife and one daughter.

For some reason, even though this guy can carry legally -- and does -- I have never feared for my friend's (his wife) life. He has made very wise decisions in his life... and he puts child pornographers away -- he is not one himself.

Is he an exception? The only guy with this disease that does not experience a life like what Fawley had? I have known him for over ten years and he has never displayed enough to warrant anyone to be in "fear."

Not to be disrespectful, but I believe a lot of people don't put much credence into these "mental illnesses" because now days, no one is just an a***ole, they have some mental problem. It sounds more like a scapegoat, an excuse for bad behavior.

Hello CSI

I know that this was written to Peep but I really felt the need to respond for several reasons. First off I have worked in the mental health field for many MANY years. But the next reason is what got my attention. I met a man years ago that was perfect. He was everything any woman wanted in her life. He was kind, loving and would do anything for anyone. We dated for a few years and then got married. He was still the "perfect" man. He was a great father to my son and to his daughter. He worked he helped with the bills, he would do anything that you can name. He was very romantic and never forgot anything. He would send flowers to work if he know I was having a bad day just anything you can think of. Well about a year into the marriage everything changed. He would get mad over nothing. He was mentally and physically abusive to me as well as the kids. Heck he was even abusive to the pets. And it would take nothing at all to set him off. I remember one night that he was taken out of the house in cuffs because he was going off and beating my head into the floor because when the cat ate it knocked 3 pieces of food on the floor. It ended up with a little over 5,000 damage to the house. Over 3 pieces of cat food. Well it comes to find out he was bi-polar and had not been taking his meds. I didn't know that he was the whole time we were dating or even when we got married not until he felt that he didn't need his meds anymore.

So where you asked "Is he an exception?" From work and personal life both I would have to say that yes he was an exception if he never had been on meds.

justathoughtdj

01-28-2006, 08:52 PM

I have no idea what happened to him honestly! After that night I changed the locks on the door packed the kids in the car and took a weeks vacation where NO ONE knew where we were! I didn't even tell my parents where we were going. He called 50+ times a day that I would not answer the phone while we were gone. And I got a divorce lawyer on the phone the next day. I have never laid eyes on him again and have no need too. When a 6 year old boy has to call 911 because he gets woken up by his mom's head being beat into the floor it is time to turn and run and never look back.

So YES it had a happy ending :-) at least for me and the kids!

justathoughtdj

01-28-2006, 11:21 PM

Yes mam like night and day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

csi_fan_01

01-28-2006, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by justathoughtdj

Hello CSI

I know that this was written to Peep but I really felt the need to respond for several reasons. First off I have worked in the mental health field for many MANY years. But the next reason is what got my attention. I met a man years ago that was perfect. He was everything any woman wanted in her life. He was kind, loving and would do anything for anyone. We dated for a few years and then got married. He was still the "perfect" man. He was a great father to my son and to his daughter. He worked he helped with the bills, he would do anything that you can name. He was very romantic and never forgot anything. He would send flowers to work if he know I was having a bad day just anything you can think of. Well about a year into the marriage everything changed. He would get mad over nothing. He was mentally and physically abusive to me as well as the kids. Heck he was even abusive to the pets. And it would take nothing at all to set him off. I remember one night that he was taken out of the house in cuffs because he was going off and beating my head into the floor because when the cat ate it knocked 3 pieces of food on the floor. It ended up with a little over 5,000 damage to the house. Over 3 pieces of cat food. Well it comes to find out he was bi-polar and had not been taking his meds. I didn't know that he was the whole time we were dating or even when we got married not until he felt that he didn't need his meds anymore.

So where you asked "Is he an exception?" From work and personal life both I would have to say that yes he was an exception if he never had been on meds.

While I am moved by your story, I have to wonder how much of that behavior on his part was choice. If it was completely involuntary then perhaps people like this need to be institutionalized indefinitely. Society can't force someone to take their medications. It's their choice to take them or not. Even the doctors have no control over it.

I hate to say this but it appears the more stories I read, the more I feel these people should be institutionalized.

When Peeps was replying they were saying that it is not a matter of them making choices to be "down on their luck."

While I would love to believe in things like fate and the whatnot, I can't help but think back on my life and the lives of people i have known, and even though we may not always want to admit it, we have made some bad decisions at times in our lives and paid the consequences.

I don't think murder is a "involuntary reaction" to another's words, thoughts or deeds. I believe that murder is very much a conscious choice. In the Taylor Behl / Ben Fawley case, I don't think Ben's accidental killing was an accident. The location (as I have said before there are plenty of places -- including Ben's apartment where they could have had sex without going off to some remote place like Madison,) the fact that he contrived some story about being kidnapped, as well as a plethora of other things that happened directly after -- they all point to premeditated murder. Hands down. This guy just didn't get into a rage or a funk and do this on the spur of the moment. Too many things seemed very thought out and planned in advance.

Maybe I'm crazy but it just does not seem to jive with "heat of the moment" murders. Not in the least.

Also, I would like to add, I am very proud of you -- the way you handled your situation shows you have a lot of class, intelligence and grace. Anyone who knows you is blessed to have you a part of their lives....That man was not good enough for you!

Belsma

01-29-2006, 12:54 AM

IMO, I'm not sure if it was premeditated. I think he may have had plans to make her want to be with him and when she rejected him he flew off the handle. I don't know. The one thing that I do know is that I'm pissed. I can't stand the little weenie and if I thought I could get away with it I would tackle the little fu-ker and have my 30 seconds with him. Ahhh, why is that not a opton? Oh, because I guess it's "cruel and unusual" punishment. Funny how victims don't get a choice or voice and the people who took their lives are living it up in jail/prison with possibly more cable channels then we have.

protectkidz

01-29-2006, 03:45 AM

No disrespect to anyone, but I'm pretty sure that Ben didn't kill Taylor because he is bipolar.

There are few cases of bipolar personalities killing people. No offense to anyone on this board.

The discussion about Ben killing Taylor because of his anger for Erin makes much more sense to me. In reading Skulz's online rantings, and the ways that these rantings coincided with Taylor's disappearance and death, I always thought that Ben acted out his feelings for Erin, and then placed Taylor near Erin. Then went on to create a scenario for police that would implicate Erin. His police report the next day reinforces that to me.

JMO -

PK

jace

01-29-2006, 09:48 AM

CSI, I'm not totalling disagreeing with you and I hesitate to post anything about this. I was alot closer than friends with someone that was bi-polar. They were never completly diagnosed. When I say that I mean they were taken to dr.'s but would never stay long enough to have it diagnosed. After reading up on it I've come to the conclusion that it was either bi-polar or manic depression. This man married, had four children and carried on a job for all of his adult life. Matter of fact he worked and made a good living from the time he was old enough to work. I guess I might as well say it because it was my dad. He never hurt anyone physically but emotionally. There were nights I stayed up crying while he threatened to beat my older sisters. Nights when my mom would have to get a hammer to keep him away. As I got older there were nights when I would wake up and he would be standing in the hallway looking in my room. My dad made it to seventy-five before he killed himself. Everyone that approached me after that told me what a kind, wonderful man my father was and zHE WAS. He just had this horrible demon that he couldn't control and refused to get the help to control it.
Have you ever asked this man's family what home life is like? Maybe you have and because he is on medication everything is fine. I hope so.
I've read and read about how Peace, Mike and Taylor should have known that Ben was capable of something so horrible. Unless you happen to be there when they're having one of these episode I find it hard to believe you would ever know.
I don't think Ben should get off with reason of insanity by any means. He made a choice when he decided that his libido and his "art" was more important than taking his meds and protecting himself as well as those around him.

jace

01-29-2006, 09:57 AM

I've seen it mentioned here that Ben seemed to only be violent towards women. Mostly women that were leaving him. Could that be because he was adopted? I know alot of people who have been adopted and they have issues with abandonmnet because they feel they were abandoned by their mothers. When a girlfriend decided that she doesn't want to be with him anymore then he thinks back to the anger he feels when he thinks of his mother leaving him. Just a thought.
Once again, not making excuses. Like everyone else just trying to figure out why he did what he did and why he picked Taylor.

PS sorry about all the typo's in the previous post. The waterworks were going and I didn't think to preview it.

jrporter

01-29-2006, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by csi_fan_01
The location (as I have said before there are plenty of places -- including Ben's apartment where they could have had sex without going off to some remote place like Madison,) the fact that he contrived some story about being kidnapped, as well as a plethora of other things that happened directly after -- they all point to premeditated murder. Hands down. This guy just didn't get into a rage or a funk and do this on the spur of the moment. Too many things seemed very thought out and planned in advance.

Maybe I'm crazy but it just does not seem to jive with "heat of the moment" murders. Not in the least.

I admit to being unclear on all of the details of Taylor Behl's disappearance/murder, but all that I've read about are post-offense behaviors designed to cover his tracks, not premeditation. What took place before the murder to indicate planning in advance?

poplife

01-29-2006, 12:41 PM

In my mind, the premeditation came when he raped her and put his hands around her neck. I believe this b/c I do not believe his story of consensual sex. He didn't put his hands around her neck or a bag to do it for fun b/c she wasn't consenting, he did it knowing it would silence her.

That's all the premed they needs, only seconds.

Makes me so sick and sad.

Hey Paula

01-29-2006, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by poplife
In my mind, the premeditation came when he raped her and put his hands around her neck. I believe this b/c I do not believe his story of consensual sex. He didn't put his hands around her neck or a bag to do it for fun b/c she wasn't consenting, he did it knowing it would silence her.

That's all the premed they needs, only seconds.

Makes me so sick and sad.

Yes, your're right! There is no minimum time required for premeditation.

Following through on a murderous thought, is all that is required to meet the standard for premeditation.

protectkidz

01-29-2006, 02:08 PM

He snapped when Erin broke up with him - this is what might've happened with Taylor, also.

When Erin used photos he had taken of her - photos he claimed he had the rights to - he went on a rampage, dedicating a web page to his ranting, and sending rants to everyone he could think of that Erin worked with (modeling). I saw rants of his all over the web, with remarks from people such as "who is this guy? what is he talking about?"

It looks to me like he has a history of serious anger issues. I think his final rampage towards Erin was to leave Taylor's body on her family's property, and then make up a story implicating her.

jrporter

01-29-2006, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Also, when it comes to premeditation, all you need is intent.........seconds........you don't need a plan extending over hours or days............just a second of intent equals premeditation.

I had equated "premeditation" with more pre-crime planning than a few seconds before the criminal act, but you're absolutely correct. Wikipedia says, "In some states, premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder." Thanks for clarification. But I still wonder if Fawley had hatched a plan more than a few seconds in advance, or if after killing Taylor Behl, was he scrambling in a manic frame of mind to develop alibis and alternative theories of the crime in an effort to cover his acts.

csi_fan_01

01-29-2006, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by jrporter

I admit to being unclear on all of the details of Taylor Behl's disappearance/murder, but all that I've read about are post-offense behaviors designed to cover his tracks, not premeditation. What took place before the murder to indicate planning in advance?
In order charge a defendant with Murder 1 you have show malice and premeditation. Now, there are extenuating circumstances -- while in commission of a rape. But premeditation is a part of this, too. There is no 2nd degree manslaughter rape. There is no crime of passion rape.

TN_Profiler

01-30-2006, 11:46 AM

Often, strangulation is a qualifyer for premeditation. Premeditation can occur seconds before the act, not hours or days as commonly thought.

Crimes involving a gun are a little easier for a defendent to argue "accident". Afterall, it is possible for a gun to fire without intent. (i.e. during a struggle)

It is hard to convince a jury that during the minutes it takes to manually strangle someone:

1. they did not know what the outcome of their actions would be

OR

2. it was an accident

Just because Benny-boy wasn't researching strangulation on the internet days leading up to the crime or plotting this out in detail on a piece of paper does not mean it wasn't premeditation.

Ask yourself this ......... is there any reason to strangle someone other than to kill them?

I think the outcome speaks for itself.

jace

01-30-2006, 05:37 PM

When I read TN's question about why would you strangle someone other than to kill them I didn't think about the auto erotic aphyxiation thing (duh). Evidently this is something that is very popular with younger people. Maybe not always as something sexual. I read in my daughter's magazine (I think it was Seventeen) the other night where kids are using this as a game. Choking each other to the point of passing out. Seems they get some kind of rush before they pass out. Some kids are becoming so addicted to it that they're using belts and things to perform it on themselves. Alot of them are ending up dying.
I think everyone agrees on this site that it wasn't a game sexual or otherwise when it comes to what Ben did to Taylor.

TN_Profiler

01-30-2006, 06:04 PM

The struggle that ensues is a key indicator and difference between sexual play and murder.

EA has as much place in this case as his abduction story. Neither appears credible as the facts speak for themselves.

Next question - did his actions 'after the fact' appear consistent with an innocent man? Before you decide let me remind you of how he handed out 'missing' flyers on the streets of Richmond. Hmmmm... kinda like Scott Peterson attending candlelight vigils praying for the safe return of his wife.

OK .... you can decide now.

Hey Paula

01-30-2006, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by TN_Profiler
The struggle that ensues is a key indicator and difference between sexual play and murder.

EA has as much place in this case as his abduction story. Neither appears credible as the facts speak for themselves.

Next question - did his actions 'after the fact' appear consistent with an innocent man? Before you decide let me remind you of how he handed out 'missing' flyers on the streets of Richmond. Hmmmm... kinda like Scott Peterson attending candlelight vigils praying for the safe return of his wife.

OK .... you can decide now.

Hi TN!

Erotic Asphyxia can be achieved either by suffocation and/or strangulation.

Although I do not, for an instant, believe BF's story about how Taylor died, I know why he said it. BF knows that ashyxiation and/or strangulation would be detectable, regardless of how it occurred. And how it was achieved cannot be discerned unless of course, Taylor's body revealed signs of a violent struggle, which would belie BF's claim of consensual sex.

Because BF mentioned a plastic bag being placed over his head by his "abductors", I believe this is how Taylor died. Criminals often incorporate, or weave truths into their lies. A plastic bag was also found with Taylor, which again leads me to believe it was used in her murder.

For anyone interested in learning more about erotic asphyxiation, here is a link to one of the many sites dealing with this.

Erotic Asphyxiation (http://www.sexuality.org/l/fetish/aspydang.html)

Hey Paula

01-30-2006, 08:27 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Thanks Hey Paula.

I had no idea that choking was so dangerous.....I mean as far as causing cardiac arrest and that kind of thing.

PD's have outlawed the use of choke holds in subduing suspects. As far as I know, Ultimate Fighting still allows choke holds as a way to make your opponent submit. I saw a match once and the person was barely able to tap out because he was being choked....and fading fast.

Jeez. This is dangerous stuff. What are people playing with?

They give new meaning to the song "Breathless"! :eek:

TN_Profiler

01-31-2006, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

Hi TN!

Erotic Asphyxia can be achieved either by suffocation and/or strangulation.

Although I do not, for an instant, believe BF's story about how Taylor died, I know why he said it. BF knows that ashyxiation and/or strangulation would be detectable, regardless of how it occurred. And how it was achieved cannot be discerned unless of course, Taylor's body revealed signs of a violent struggle, which would belie BF's claim of consensual sex.

Hey Paula - thank you for the link. It sure is a bizarre way to "express" your love to your partner. I would think that if your love life needed that type of "boost", you probably have some issues in the sack and AE is not going to be the solution.

I guess I was trying to connect Ben's behavior with his story. IF this was an accident .... did he do anything after the fact that remotely supports it?

As far as I can tell he was doing everything that points to murder. Here are just a few reasons I cannot see this as an accident.

1. did he contact anyone for help? (police, ambulance, etc)
2. passing out flyers and acting like he has no idea where she is
3. unsolicited abduction story that is clearly an alibi for the time frame for her disappearance.
4. the car ..... where was her car? he had it, hid it, and then after a few weeks quietly parked it on the streets of Richmond.
5. concealed her car by using a switched license plate
6. went on with his day-to-day life as if nothing was going on
7. lies, lies, lies ....... too many to name but let's just say his account of where he was and what he was doing was one giant pack of lies.
8. he hid her body in an area that would be nearly impossible for anyone to discover. (and I do emphasize the word "nearly")

There are other reasons but this hits some of the highlights. If you try to believe his story then what has he done that allows you to think it is truthful? If he has done nothing but give false statements and spent the better part of September creating a false impression that he doesn't know where she is ...... then I am under the strong impression that AE is not connected with this case.

Helpful hint #1 - look at his behavior, then decide if it reveals anything remotely consistent with an "accident".

Jennifer33

01-31-2006, 12:30 PM

Excellent post as always TN....I've been playing some catch up but not too busy to make sure you know your posts are effective...

nibblet

01-31-2006, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

Awrighty, so Steve came out with the choking sex thing at 12:40pm. Hours later fawley talked to LE and told the sad story of the choking sex thing......................

........so somebody check the logs: did fawley have a visitor sometime between 12:40pm and the time he talked??

Or is it all a coincidence, and fawley thought that story up all by himself without any help from Steve...?

I have to go back through Steve Huff's articles but I thought that I had read that early in the search, Steve thought that BF had been writing/IMing to him about other theories using aliases to throw off the case - knowing it could get published on the internet.

Let me look for that info and see if I can find it. I'm sure BF was reading everything he could up until he no longer had computer access...

vedder

01-31-2006, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by TN_Profiler

Hey Paula - thank you for the link. It sure is a bizarre way to "express" your love to your partner. I would think that if your love life needed that type of "boost", you probably have some issues in the sack and AE is not going to be the solution.

I guess I was trying to connect Ben's behavior with his story. IF this was an accident .... did he do anything after the fact that remotely supports it?

As far as I can tell he was doing everything that points to murder. Here are just a few reasons I cannot see this as an accident.

1. did he contact anyone for help? (police, ambulance, etc)
2. passing out flyers and acting like he has no idea where she is
3. unsolicited abduction story that is clearly an alibi for the time frame for her disappearance.
4. the car ..... where was her car? he had it, hid it, and then after a few weeks quietly parked it on the streets of Richmond.
5. concealed her car by using a switched license plate
6. went on with his day-to-day life as if nothing was going on
7. lies, lies, lies ....... too many to name but let's just say his account of where he was and what he was doing was one giant pack of lies.
8. he hid her body in an area that would be nearly impossible for anyone to discover. (and I do emphasize the word "nearly")

There are other reasons but this hits some of the highlights. If you try to believe his story then what has he done that allows you to think it is truthful? If he has done nothing but give false statements and spent the better part of September creating a false impression that he doesn't know where she is ...... then I am under the strong impression that AE is not connected with this case.

Helpful hint #1 - look at his behavior, then decide if it reveals anything remotely consistent with an "accident".

I agree 100%

There was no consenual sex...no erotic ashyxiation
This story is just as ridiculous as his stupid "abduction alibi"

He has lied about EVEYTHING else...Why would anyone believe that THIS part would be true?

Do you remember he claimed to have seen Taylor around 3:30 that afternoon? He then had to change his story once he realized she did not get back until at least 6:00

Like TN said, everything he said has been lies, lies, lies...EVERYTHING...

Hey Paula

01-31-2006, 01:13 PM

Howdy TN!

I agree with your entire post.

BF certainly didn't act like an accident had occurred. If anything, his behavior, to the point of creating a story of his own abduction, occurring at around the time Taylor disappeared, which involved a plastic bag, being dropped off in a remote area, and paying for gas in the "good samaritan's" vehicle, indicate that he was devious in covering his crime, and smart enough to use the same circumstances as the crime itself, to lend correlation to it, making him appear as another victim in Taylor's murder.

I believe BF was attempting to tie the two incidences. In his warped mind, perhaps he was striving to blame Erin and her friends for both his abduction and Taylor's disappearance. :shrug:

01-31-2006, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by peeparoo

It would be hard to imagine that even if it was an accident, he would have gone to the police. He was already scheduled for a court appearance for one incident, and had some priors that would cause him major problems in coming forward with a claim of causing an accidental death.

From what I've seen, some people who have something to hide choose to stay in view, others decide to run. Even though it seems he had places he could have gone, he decided to stay and feign innocence.

By staying, he ended up getting himself deeper and deeper into legal problems (the computer stuff and the gun). His head was probably spinning out of control and it got harder and harder for him to find a way to explain his involvement in Taylor's death.

No, I don't think his behavior is necessarily a definitive indication of voluntary murder.

peeparoo

I have to agree with this. Fact is, would anyone have believed Ben Fawley that Taylor's death was accidental any more THEN than they do NOW? Doubtful. So I don't think it is unrealistic that IF it was an accident, Fawley would try to cover it up as best he could.

And therein, I think, lies the biggest difficulty for the prosecution. But .. I am not privy to all the evidence they have. And if they feel confident (as they seem to) in their evidence for 1st degree, I'm good with it.

vedder

01-31-2006, 02:39 PM

BF claimed to have had sex with Taylor TWICE that day...Once in the afternoon(impossible)BEFORE she was with Jake and once again AFTER ...Like she was just at school to be his sex toy....

If it REALLY was an "accident during rough sex" why would he have needed to say he had sex with her TWICE that day?

Makes no sense...

Lies were spewing out of his mouth so fast and furious,he had NO idea what he was saying...

01-31-2006, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by vedder
BF claimed to have had sex with Taylor TWICE that day...Once in the afternoon(impossible)BEFORE she was with Jake and once again AFTER ...Like she was just at school to be his sex toy....

If it REALLY was an "accident during rough sex" why would he have needed to say he had sex with her TWICE that day?

Makes no sense...

Lies were spewing out of his mouth so fast and furious,he had NO idea what he was saying...

vedder, I think it's pretty well established that anything Ben Fawley said about that day is a lie.

vedder

01-31-2006, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by Rowan Again

vedder, I think it's pretty well established that anything Ben Fawley said about that day is a lie.

Including the word ACCIDENT...

01-31-2006, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by vedder

Including the word ACCIDENT...

yep.

vedder

01-31-2006, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by vedder
BF claimed to have had sex with Taylor TWICE that day...Once in the afternoon(impossible)BEFORE she was with Jake and once again AFTER ...Like she was just at school to be his sex toy....

If it REALLY was an "accident during rough sex" why would he have needed to say he had sex with her TWICE that day?

Makes no sense...

Lies were spewing out of his mouth so fast and furious,he had NO idea what he was saying...

I don't think that post came out very clear...sorry

What I mean is , If it REALLY was an "accident" THAT NIGHT in the CAR...why would he have needed to say that he was "with" her that afternoon(which we know is a lie) as well...Theres NO reason.

Thats what makes no sense to me and why I do not believe it was an accident...

Hey Paula

01-31-2006, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by vedder

I don't think that post came out very clear...sorry

What I mean is , If it REALLY was an "accident" THAT NIGHT in the CAR...why would he have needed to say that he was "with" her that afternoon(which we know is a lie) as well...Theres NO reason.

Thats what makes no sense to me and why I do not believe it was an accident...

Perhaps BF claimed he had sex with Taylor twice that day to strengthen and stress the consensual sex belief he wanted to float.

joeb

01-31-2006, 03:18 PM

Tell me what you think the last sentence of this means? It is by BF in one of his journals.
Among other disturbing comments from Fawley aka Skulz is a reference involving sex with a girl who appears as though it is likely Taylor Behl - sometimes referred to as "T" in his journal.

The time spent with “T” was a lot of fun, and I will treasure that as something very special. I will also harbor the hope that I will get the chance to go there again with her, though I am almost certain that will never be. If I do get that chance again I do have something in mind that I would like to see if she enjoys.

vedder

01-31-2006, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

Perhaps BF claimed he had sex with Taylor twice that day to strengthen and stress the consensual sex belief he wanted to float.

But the idiot had to change his story IMMEDIATELY once he found out she was NOT even there that early afternoon...

He had actually screwed himself by admitting to this...

Hey Paula

01-31-2006, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by joeb
Tell me what you think the last sentence of this means? It is by BF in one of his journals.
Among other disturbing comments from Fawley aka Skulz is a reference involving sex with a girl who appears as though it is likely Taylor Behl - sometimes referred to as "T" in his journal.

The time spent with “T” was a lot of fun, and I will treasure that as something very special. I will also harbor the hope that I will get the chance to go there again with her, though I am almost certain that will never be. If I do get that chance again I do have something in mind that I would like to see if she enjoys.

By his own admission, Taylor no longer wanted to be with BF. I hope the Pros using that LJ entry to support what Taylor's friends have said, i.e., that Taylor was not interested in BF in a sexual way.

BF has pics of himself on his "bondage bed". Perhaps he had thoughts of some sort of S&M act or tying/chaining her.

vedder

01-31-2006, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by joeb
Tell me what you think the last sentence of this means? It is by BF in one of his journals.
Among other disturbing comments from Fawley aka Skulz is a reference involving sex with a girl who appears as though it is likely Taylor Behl - sometimes referred to as "T" in his journal.

The time spent with “T” was a lot of fun, and I will treasure that as something very special. I will also harbor the hope that I will get the chance to go there again with her, though I am almost certain that will never be. If I do get that chance again I do have something in mind that I would like to see if she enjoys.

He was hoping to have sex with Taylor again, knowing it was never going to happen...

I believe that last sentance was nothing more than BF playing mind games with Taylor, hoping to make her "curious" once again..

jmoo...

Hey Paula

01-31-2006, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by vedder

But the idiot had to change his story IMMEDIATELY once he found out she was NOT even there that early afternoon...

He had actually screwed himself by admitting to this...

Exactly! But when perps undergo COG, they say and do things to remove guilt, which often works to point to the contrary.

IMO

vedder

01-31-2006, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

I don't know.........but I doubt it's the choking sex thing......he never had it in his past!

Ok just say Taylor DID decide to throw the old dog a bone again..do you really think he was going to scare her off by saying "Hey I want to get really,really rough with you and choke you till you almost pass out...I hear its alot of fun....You game??"

He wouldn't have had the balls...

Remember,he was always "super nice Ben" when he was with Taylor...

nibblet

01-31-2006, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by joeb
Tell me what you think the last sentence of this means? It is by BF in one of his journals.
Among other disturbing comments from Fawley aka Skulz is a reference involving sex with a girl who appears as though it is likely Taylor Behl - sometimes referred to as "T" in his journal.

The time spent with “T” was a lot of fun, and I will treasure that as something very special. I will also harbor the hope that I will get the chance to go there again with her, though I am almost certain that will never be. If I do get that chance again I do have something in mind that I would like to see if she enjoys.

Joeb - do you have a timeframe when he wrote this? I remember seeing it but don't have the time to go look -

thanks

nibblet

01-31-2006, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by AvengingAngel

He said he was "with" her the first time in order to cover up in case they found the body............with his DNA.

Then they found the body, and his alibi was like torn to shreds, so he came up with the choking sex thing..........:shrug:

He thought she would be found sooner than she was.

He probably came up with the choking thing because he had no idea what condition her body was in after a month. He definitely freaked the day she was discovered.

4MYGUYS

02-01-2006, 08:01 AM

FYI, I don't know if this has already been posted but;
my DH heard an interview yesterday on the radio, WRVA, Richmond, on the Mac Watson show, with Ben Fawley's last roommate. She was living with him from July 31st, until Sept. I didn't find a link for a transcript but perhaps someone with additional info can assist.?

joeb

02-01-2006, 10:49 AM

In answer to your question I cant seem to find the exact date to answer your question. I think it was written around the same time Erin moved out on him. Maybe someone else will know or can find the date BF wrote that item. I seem to find that is one of the things I had bookmarked that has now disappeared. Removed and no longer available. But it would have been written between May and August of 2005. Interesting that he wrote that just as Erin left him. Most likely it was written in May 2005 but I am not sure of that.

protectkidz

02-01-2006, 12:49 PM

Hi joeb and nibblet:

I found this on Steve's blog - referring to the comment BF made re: T:

http://huffcrimeblog.com/?p=304

PK

protectkidz

02-01-2006, 01:38 PM

I thought people might want to look at this again:

http://line-nowhere.livejournal.com/

I haven't viewed this for months, but looking at it reminded me of how hard he tried to keep up his facade, while at the same time giving so much info about himself that it was easy for the reader to see what he really was.

He removed all of his posts on his skulz67 LJ, except for the posts he made before he met Taylor for the first time. One thing that struck me from rereading those - he had nicknames for all of his friends, he commented constantly on how young he looked in relationship to his true age, and he had no trouble talking about his bed, and the plans he had for constructing it and fitting it out with all of his toys.