Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[FKfanMoe]

Hi hawgustusgloop, hope all is well.

I think KJ knew he hurt her and hurt her badly. Her wounds weren't suicidal. But the worry part may be right. He might have wanted people to think he was very concerned about her safety from........???? IMO, it was a warped attempt to deflect attention away from himself. JMVHO.

Why would a suicidal woman who was raped by her father kill herself while she was nude? Now I have heard she was a cutter but cutters cut themselves to paradoxically ease other pains and they don't cut themselves to commit suicide.

She had problems ( heck we all do) but I seriously doubt at that specific point in her life she was depressed or suicidal.

Also when women commit suicide, from what I understand, its usually by drug overdose. And if she was attacked from behind, there would be entry stab wounds on her back. Maybe his defense lawyer will try to pass that claim out, and no doubt the defense wll smear Nona as a " bad girl".

Moe

[FKfanMoe]

With all thoughts aside on the murder charges.... I do not think a rape occured during this incident with all that I have presented before me. Whether or not, it was a rape or lewd sex, whatever..... I have to say the act of one boy having sex with a girl while 2 others watched is vulgar, gross, and sick. If it was a rape and it occurred, then it is a million times worse. BUT, something that I think everyone needs to take into consideration is that this generation of children is VERY different from my generation ( or probably everyone else's on here). I have learned that from having a teenage daughter. This generation is much more risque than mine and much more wild. I believe they would consider it more "free". However, my generation is much more risque than my mother's, and hers much more than her mother's, and so on. This is a generation that goes all out; nothing is shocking or innocent to them as it might be to us. There is not much naivity. I am sometimes shocked and saddened by how much my daughter knows. Although, she truly is a good kid, and I am proud to say, she does realize what her parents teach her. I'm getting off the subject ,but what I am trying to say is that this is a generation where interracial relationships are widely accepted without a second thought. Gay, lesbian and bisexual relationships are not at all uncommon. These are just the tip of the iceberg. There is not much modesty among kids today. Fourteen year olds look 16 and act 20 something. I am not saying at all that what the boys alledgedly dione was right, I am just saying that for their generation it is probably widely accepted, especially in certain groups. Probably a lot more occurs than we realize, and what is so shocking to us is nothing to them. I do feel that sex between the girl and JS was consentual; I feel that much is obvious from the text messages that went on. Maybe just the others watching wasn't.



KG, one of the problems I have with your claim about teenagers today is that they are sexually accepting gays and so forth, the also accept drugging a female to " have sex" with her. The fact is they STILL harass and call others gays, fags and queers. While I do see some validity in your statement, as teenagers today have easy access to porn online, I have a big problem beleiving that its the " norm" for teenagers to drug or pass out from alcohol and be raped. The female may not realize that she was sexually used, as she claims she did not remember it. but it's still rape. There are some males who deliberately drug the drinks of females with a " date rape" drug and the female victims usually do NOT remember being raped.

Maybe she was passed out drunk, maybe they slipped a drug in her drink. It doesn't matter. If she was sexually assaulted and it was not by her consent, it was rape. If the juveniles think there is nothing wrong in doing that, they seriously are ignorant fools.

Moe

[hawgustusgloop]

Why would a suicidal woman who was raped by her father kill herself while she was nude? Now I have heard she was a cutter but cutters cut themselves to paradoxically ease other pains and they don't cut themselves to commit suicide.

She had problems ( heck we all do) but I seriously doubt at that specific point in her life she was depressed or suicidal.

Also when women commit suicide, from what I understand, its usually by drug overdose. And if she was attacked from behind, there would be entry stab wounds on her back. Maybe his defense lawyer will try to pass that claim out, and no doubt the defense wll smear Nona as a " bad girl".

Moe

I don't think anyone here thinks Nona was suicidal, and I know no one thinks her death was anything but homicide. The discussion above was about Kevin sending a "U Alive" text message to her around 4:30 p.m., approx. only 2 hours before he, his mother, and friend "discovered" her body.
It hadn't been THAT long since he had talked to her before, yet he sent his friend, then later his mom and himself to check on her because he was so worried. There would have to be a reason for him to be SO worried about her after only a short time of not speaking to her. So, I wondered if he concocted a scenario where she was really upset and/or suicidal about something, and he was extremely concerned and texted "U Alive" because he knew the police would see it and it would seemingly illustrate his level of concern. I also wondered if maybe Kevin, if guilty, wasn't absolutely positive she was dead and was checking to see if she was indeed still alive and ready to identify her attacker (him) before moving on to a coverup plan.

[optimumprimal78]

The one thing in regards to the text and finding the body that bothers me that if he was so concerned for his "fiancee" and her well being, then why didn't he go over there immediately when she did not respond to the "U ALIVE" text. I know if it were me I would have hopped in my vehicle and made sure I found my fiancee first.

Also, I have heard stories of people having an "out-of-body" experience whenever some act like this takes place. I wonder if that was used as an argument and if so would that make KJ eligible for a State mental examination? If it was used it could cause some problems.

[lorettalockhorn]

RE: KJ's mom and RW being with him when Nona was discovered, I think that was contrived so that he would have an audience to witness his reaction to her death.

Did I miss something about suicide? Is someone seriously suggesting that the defense will be that Nona bludgeoned herself to death while nude? GMAB (And I think that the majority of women suicides do tend to use a method that doesn't disfigure.) Another aside; my understanding of cutting is that it enables the cutter to feel pain and be in control of it, not ease pain.

I don't see how Kevin could use any kind of diminished capacity or insanity defense after working so hard to (poorly) explain his whereabouts before Nona was found. Did I read somewhere that she had a test scheduled that afternoon? And wasn't the phone call that he lied about near that time? I don't get why he would have expected her to answer the phone at 2:10 if that is the case. And the "U alive" message could have been to feign concern. Of course it's been pointed out over and over that he could have simply called Carol Dipert; at least she had a key to the apartment. (Where was his key, anyway?)

At some point during the trial, he's simply going to have to admit that he touched the lightbulb when the body was found, since he claims that he hadn't been at her apartment since well before she was murdered.

The probable cause statement is (or should be) a summation of the different reports given to the lead in the case. (I'm thinking that the information about the drying time of the bloody fingerprint was in the Courier at the time of the continuance. Hasn't James Bacon been gone for some time now?)

[hawgustusgloop]

hmmm.... I just can't make myself see it the way you guys do. I can't see him texting "U Alive" after trying to make a suicidal plot out of it. I just don't get that at all. I think if he'd tried to kill her and thought she'd been alive, I think he would have figured the police would already have been after him. I mran if he is as cunning and calculated as everyone is making him out to be, this move would have been a bit too obvious.


If he is guilty and committed the murder in a fit of rage, then he didn't plan to kill her before it happened. His options for covering it up would be very limited in that scenario. What else was he going to come up with that wouldn't be too obvious? And "my client is too smart to make up such a stupid story" ain't gonna work in court. JMO.

[optimumprimal78]

I don't see how Kevin could use any kind of diminished capacity or insanity defense after working so hard to (poorly) explain his whereabouts before Nona was found. Did I read somewhere that she had a test scheduled that afternoon? And wasn't the phone call that he lied about near that time? I don't get why he would have expected her to answer the phone at 2:10 if that is the case. And the "U alive" message could have been to feign concern. Of course it's been pointed out over and over that he could have simply called Carol Dipert; at least she had a key to the apartment. (Where was his key, anyway?)



I might not have ever seen this comment before and I never really thought about it. If KJ and Nona were supposedly that close (fiancee or otherwise) he probably did have a key. If so, why hasn't it been mentioned?

[hawgustusgloop]

I might not have ever seen this comment before and I never really thought about it. If KJ and Nona were supposedly that close (fiancee or otherwise) he probably did have a key. If so, why hasn't it been mentioned?

IIRC, the general story out there is that only Nona, Nona's mom, and Kevin had keys to her apartment. I believe the keys have been mentioned somewhere in this thread before, but it may require some digging to find it in all those pages. IIRC, the story was that Kevin did not have his key to her apartment with him (conveniently?), so that is why they had to go into her apartment through the back door when they "discovered" her body. I don't know where the key ended up, though.

[FDInLaw]

Covering it up by going to "check on her" doesn't make any sense in any circumstances whether it was accidental or not. If he didn't, why didn't he leave it alone, and just let someone else discover the body altogehther? IMO, if I murdered my significant other, I would figure I would be the first person looked at, and if I tried to cover it up by going to check on that person and making it look like blame should be elsewhere would only make me look more suspicious, not less. This theory just does not make sense to me in any shape form or fashion, no matter many times you try to explain. I'm sorry to disagree, I just think it is a bunch of hooey.:shrug:

I agree, the stupid client ideal won't work because he's not stupid. I don't think KJ is stupid enough to have done anything like anyone on has proposed he has.

"Discovering" the body makes perfect sense for the murderer. . . by touching the body on discovery any physical evidence (hair, prints, etc.) would have an explanation. After all, Kevin watches Law & Order. . . he knew the police would be able to place him there. JMO

[FDInLaw]

Why didn't he just call Carol and have her check on Nona? That's a good point. I think if he had done it and was trying to cover up that that would have made him look a lot less suspicious than going through the scene that is being proposed on

here. :rolleyes: Maybe he did do it,but after he did, he grew a heart and decided not to have her Mom go through that. (Sarcasm intended.) If he had murdered her, he would not have cared. He would have just wanted the best route to throw everyone off his track, and IMO, this would have been it.

Just doesn't add up!


Kg**, you make a good point. . . why would Kevin knowingly put his own Mother through that! It's extremely heartless. . . but then so is murder. In my mind, whom better to have there than a person that will never believe you did it. Sure sounds like something a sociopath would do. Someone with no feeling or remorse. MOO :cool:

[FDInLaw]

So who diagnosed Kevin as a sociopath? I must've missed that.I was just expressing my opinion and did not mention an actual diagnosis. It is interesting that the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit was consulted though. . .



From the Probable Cause Statement:


"In addition, on March 22,2006, Affiant consulted with members of the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit and discussed the evidence collected in this case to include video taped statements of Kevin Jones, crime scene photos and autopsy findings. It was also the opinion of the members of the FBI Behavioral Science team that the actions of Jones at the crime scene were a deliberate attempt to destroy the crime scene and to provide an explanation for the presence of any incriminating trace evidence."

[FDInLaw]

Yep, they did, the RPD didn't know what they were doing-- they may have had the knowledge, but they certainly didn't have the experience, becausse this doesn't happen a lot around here. I still don't see where they tagged him as a sociopath either. I do see where it was the "opinion" of the FBI team etc, etc. I'd like to see that actual report in full. I reserve judgement on that. I concur the FBI are considered to be experts, you make it sound like since it is their opinion, they can't be wrong. Even experts are human and are not subjected to being wrong.:no:
Opinion is just that-- an opinion, not proven fact. I never suggested that an expert in any field was infallible. AND I clearly stated that I was expressing my opinion not proven fact. . . so please stop waving your cyber finger at me. :cool:

[FDInLaw]

[QUOTE=FDInLaw;8806417]I never suggested that an expert in any field was infallible. AND I clearly stated that I was expressing my opinion not proven fact. . . so please stop waving your cyber finger at me. :cool:

:no: :no:
Hey, you have your opinion. I have mine. I saw where you stated that it was your opinion. I was just giving mine right back.
Could you express your opinion in a civil manner without using that icon? I'm not your little kid. I personally find that icon offensive and only use it when someone really deserves it.

[FDInLaw]

[QUOTE=FDInLaw;8806432]

I'm sorry you find it offensive. What constitutes someone really deserving it? We all have our opinions. Merely having a different opinion does not constitute using it IMO. . . you must have found something I said offensive??? You're free to use that icon as you see fit. . . and if it annoys me I can always put you on ignore.


:D

[FDInLaw]

[QUOTE=kg**;8806426]

Look, I don't particularly care for your cool face either, but I am not trying to censor it.

You just don't want any objection on here at all do you.

I thought for a while about stopping posting altogether, but this is supposed to be a site for both points of view, not just a "Kevin is guilty site.", so I have decided not to stop; however, I am learning to be more tactful and not take is so personally. I feel I am being civil but anytime anyone puts forth something different than your point of view, you don't like it. Period. It doesn't matter how I say it, you are not going to like it because it is completely opposite of yours. I don't like yours or agree with it, even though you have tried very hard to convince me otherwise, so we can either debate, or concur to each other's thoughts, or get our feathers ruffled. I highly doubt
you'll be changing your opinion anytime soon, and I know I won't be changing mine without a drastic change of events. We have agreed to disagree, but
still yet we must take each other with a grain of salt.Well, at least my icon is smiling! You sure have me pegged, so I can't stand there being folks on here that disagree with me. . . is that why I contact them when they don't post for awhile? Good grief! My actions speak for themselves.

Goodnight. :seeya:

[FDInLaw]

[QUOTE=FDInLaw;8806447]

I don't feel I deserve the condescending "cool" face either just because out opinions differ, but I seem to keep getting it. Sorry, I'll try to remember that it annoys you.

[lorettalockhorn]

No one suggested suicide as the cause of death. I believe hagustusgloop mentioned something about KJ trying to make it look that way to others or something like that, but if you'll read that post again, it make make more sense.

Yes, cutting DOES enable one to feel more in control; however some do it also to ease emotional pain.

What if he truly doesn't remember touching the light bulb in a traumatic event? There are all kinds of tests that can prove how old blood is, how long it's been there, etc.

Doesn't matter if James Bacon is gone. He was here during the time of the murder. He was the COP, and he helped with the investigation even though he was not the lead investigator, so his reports will be included as a part of everything. He will have to come back and testify, even though he has gone somewhere else to be COP.

And, yes KJ did have a key but not with him at the time.

Yes, I read the post mentioning suicide. I believe that almost anyone will agree with the medical examiner's report that this death was a homicide and that suicide is out of the question. My disbelief was that KJ or anyone would try to foist a suicide theory off on anyone or use it as a defense.

Agree about the blood drying time/testing; I'm sure that it's been done by both sides of this case. Sure KJ may or may not remember touching the bulb on discovery of the body, but I think that he will concede that he DID touch it. Because he will testify that he hadn't been in the apartment since shortly after midnight.

For sure, Bacon will be available to testify. And your point is what? Would I be right in surmising that your use of "COP" twice is meant to be denigrating? (To be honest, I would be surprised if Bacon had a whole lot to do with the investigation other than assignments; but I suppose it's possible.)

I have believed from the get go that KJ arranged to have his mother with him when he discovered the body for the simple reason that she would be the perfect witness to see how horrified he was at finding Nona. She wouldn't be able to see him any other way. And I agree with the experts that the reason that he went to her apartment was for the purpose of tainting the evidence.

Yes, it is stated in the PCS that Kevin had a key to Nona's apartment. My questions is; why did he go to her apartment to check on her and not take it with him, since he thought that something might be wrong?

I guess I'm just plain missing the point of much of your post. Sorry. Some of your many other posts are much more clear to me.

[lorettalockhorn]

Loretta, you have taken what I said out of context. I'm saying kids do much more risque things nowadays, and having risque sex with more than one person is involved is something I feel is not uncommon. I don't think there was a rape, so I wasn't saying rape was ok. I don't think underage drinking is ok, but we know it happens all the time and has for years. Its not something new to this case. Even if the girl had been tested for drugs, it'd be very unlikely a one time hald tab of Ecstasy would show up. It would have likely flushed out her system.
quote from the courier:
"Rhoads wrote “it was apparent that [the accuser] had some knowledge of the events and even joked with the encounters.”
The report included the content of the text messages the accuser sent.
“Ok..not that I don’t already feel easy seein that weve hung out twice now..and everyone there prolly thinks im a *****..haha..but I also did that classic lose an earring and im betting in bed..so..if somone finds a random earring its mine..haha..[sic],” the accuser texted to Simmons at 12:44 p.m. on Dec. 29.
“Haha...I am SO sorry...i honestly don’t remember most of last night..and I don’t know how I got drunk so fast..im such a lightweight!! [sic]” she texted at 1:12 p.m. that day. There were seven more messages to Simmons from the accuser made that day.
"The accuser admitted to investigators she had sent the messages because she wanted “to be cool about it.” She said she changed her mind when she heard “what Huckabay had observed she felt she had been violated,” according to the report."
I honestly don't know a lot of kids that act responsibly at this age.
As for teaching children guidance, it doesn't mean they are gonna follow and live that way to the T.
I know my parent taught me well, but I don't live exactly to her discretiong. I lived with my husband for nearly a year before we got married. To my mother, that was the most horrendous thing in the world. For me, it was possibly the smartest decision I ever made. I was older and set in my ways and not quite prepared for the ready made family that came with my husband like I thought I was ready. It gave me good adjustment time that if I hadn't had it, we probably would have gotten divorced fairly quickly.
Kids take what you teach them with a grain of salt.
The partying is pretty common among kids these days, and its done for different reasons. Sometimes kids use drugs and drink to get away. I learned that at a place where I worked. It's called a drug rehab. You cannot second guess why people do these things because you aren't in their shoes first hand. You do not know what's going on in their head, and untill you go through it, you won't have any idea. Most of the time it's not done for enjoyment as you think.

Yeah, I read the Courier articles. I stand by what I said. I don't see what your statement about interracial, gay or lesbian relationships having to do with the price of tea in China. OR in regard to this issue. :shrug:

[FDInLaw]

[QUOTE=FDInLaw;8806472]

Hi FDInLaw,

Sure glad you made it back okay. Hope all went well. Missed you.

kg, keep posting, it's good to hear both sides of the story.

IMO, we're all decent folk who just want justice for Nona, there's nothing wrong with that. You know, those smilies were put in place to temper statements and infer a tone. I guess it all depends on where you're coming from :eek: (my personal favorite).

Let's keep things in perspective and let's keep posting.

For Nona (the rose emoticon is gone, sorry) Thanks Merrick! The trip was great and there was no ice to deal with.

Seems y'all had some good discussion while I was gone!
:)

[hawgustusgloop]

Covering it up by going to "check on her" doesn't make any sense in any circumstances whether it was accidental or not. If he didn't, why didn't he leave it alone, and just let someone else discover the body altogehther? IMO, if I murdered my significant other, I would figure I would be the first person looked at, and if I tried to cover it up by going to check on that person and making it look like blame should be elsewhere would only make me look more suspicious, not less. This theory just does not make sense to me in any shape form or fashion, no matter many times you try to explain. I'm sorry to disagree, I just think it is a bunch of hooey.:shrug:

I agree, the stupid client ideal won't work because he's not stupid. I don't think KJ is stupid enough to have done anything like anyone on has proposed he has.

He had to be there to discover the body IMO because he needed to do what he had possibly seen on Law & Order, CSI, whatever, which is to touch her body and put his hands in the blood to "see how fresh it was" in order to explain why his DNA might have been on her. JMO.

[hawgustusgloop]

:lol: That cracks me up. Why would anyone be so sloppy if they were trying to cover up for themselves?

Once again, the old "Kevin's too smart to do something so stupid" explanation.

[FDInLaw]

Once again, the old "Kevin's too smart to do something so stupid" explanation. If Kevin is guilty, he really only had two options. . . let someone else discover the body and risk having his dna found there OR orchestrate finding the body himself so that the presence of his dna would have an explanation. Kevin may be a smart kid but murder is a tricky business. It's not an easy thing to get out of thanks to today's technology.

One thing that still puzzles me is the missing stick that braced the back sliding door. . . the murdered did not leave that way because the door was latched, so why was the stick missing? I wonder if Kevin took it so that he could have access without bring attention to the fact that he had a key. MOO

[FDInLaw]

The missing stick has bothered me, too. It may have been used as a weapon and had Nona's DNA on it, or maybe Nona used in defense and it has the perp's DNA on it. JMHO. It appears there at two logical explanations for the missing stick. . . either it provided entrance or it was evidence (or both).

[FDInLaw]

This may elicit some sort of lash out, but I've just got to say this. . . in light of the Whiteside party episode and a whole string of stupid actions (such as taking the lie detector test, rubbing his hand through the blood, etc.) I'm not of the opinion that Kevin is a brilliant kid, arrogant maybe, but brilliant certainly not. Personally, I don't believe he is going to set away with this. JMO

[hawgustusgloop]

ITA. Is he still in school? I thought I read somewhere that he dropped out. I also heard that his family sold their gas station where Kevin had worked. Does anyone know if he's currently employed? JMHO.

IIRC, and I'm not really sure about this one, before Nona's murder, he had attended the University of Arkansas about 2 hours away in Fayetteville, but did not return for the spring semester in January. I also think that when I read about that (it's been a really long time), the article implied that his choice not to return was because of Nona's death. That is part of the reason I arrived at my original pet theory that something major had to be going on with his personal life at the time besides any issues he might have been having with his and Nona's relationship. My best guess was that he was flunking out of school and perhaps hadn't yet told his parents and/or Nona and felt his image as an overachieving golden boy was collapsing. Maybe he saw how Nona was flourishing without him, and when something set him off, everything just came to the surface. I have a feeling he would not have returned to UA anyway but instead of having to tell people he flunked out, he can say his beloved girlfriend was murdered and he couldn't bear going back to school. I am NOT suggesting this as a motive, so please don't say that I am. I think it probably happened in a fit of rage. All JMO, of course.

[Amy]

Covering it up by going to "check on her" doesn't make any sense in any circumstances whether it was accidental or not. If he didn't, why didn't he leave it alone, and just let someone else discover the body altogehther? IMO, if I murdered my significant other, I would figure I would be the first person looked at, and if I tried to cover it up by going to check on that person and making it look like blame should be elsewhere would only make me look more suspicious, not less. This theory just does not make sense to me in any shape form or fashion, no matter many times you try to explain. I'm sorry to disagree, I just think it is a bunch of hooey.:shrug:

I agree, the stupid client ideal won't work because he's not stupid. I don't think KJ is stupid enough to have done anything like anyone on has proposed he has.


However, there are many times when, if fact this very scenario DOES occur. There are instances where the perp sets someone else up to "discover" the body. This is usually when the perp gets anxious that noone has found the body, and he wants things to move along faster. Must be pretty nail biting, waiting and waiting for someone else to discover the body, and it doesn't happen.

Then, there have been instances when the perp DOES get someone to go to the scene of the crime with him. Someone mentioned so there would be witnesses to how he "reacted" to finding the body, but also, to have a witness that the victim was dead [I]when they arrived at the scene[I]

Not that these are necessarily smart moves. But, that doesn't mean they dont happen, and to otherwise smart people. If indeed KJ killed Nona, IMO it would have been unplanned (but premediated if he had to pick up a weapon) and, he would have to work out a scenario THEN. It's not like he had been planning for days and had all the small details worked out. If it happened that way, he would be in a tither, and it's kind of hard to think really clearly when you are in a tither. IMO

[hawgustusgloop]

This may elicit some sort of lash out, but I've just got to say this. . . in light of the Whiteside party episode and a whole string of stupid actions (such as taking the lie detector test, rubbing his hand through the blood, etc.) I'm not of the opinion that Kevin is a brilliant kid, arrogant maybe, but brilliant certainly not. Personally, I don't believe he is going to set away with this. JMO

I agree completely. He probably isn't really any more intelligent than the average person, but really seems to think he is based on the reports of his actions surrounding the murder. I think that could prove to be his undoing.

[ValleyGirl]

I've missed this board! I did not know it was back up until I was alerted!
Thank you!

So, has there been any discussion of the condom wrapper that contains male DNA that does not belong to Kevin? Gross! How would you even get this in order to plant at the crime scene?????? What is up with this? If he did this, this is some serious premeditation!

Also, what about the SIM card... Was it really wiped clean while in the state's possession? Will the phone evidence be ruled inadmissible due to this?

Does the state's case look weak to anyone now, because of the delay?

And what is up with Nona's computer being accessed that night? Wasn't this after they found her? Did the police get on the computer?


This has probably been discussed on the board already but bring me up to date!

[FDInLaw]

I've missed this board! I did not know it was back up until I was alerted!
Thank you!

So, has there been any discussion of the condom wrapper that contains male DNA that does not belong to Kevin? Gross! How would you even get this in order to plant at the crime scene?????? What is up with this? If he did this, this is some serious premeditation!

Also, what about the SIM card... Was it really wiped clean while in the state's possession? Will the phone evidence be ruled inadmissible due to this?

Does the state's case look weak to anyone now, because of the delay?

And what is up with Nona's computer being accessed that night? Wasn't this after they found her? Did the police get on the computer?


This has probably been discussed on the board already but bring me up to date!
Where have you been? It's sure great to have you back. . . I'd say this calls for a reunion party of sorts. . . I've got my party hat on!

:biggrin:

:beer:

[hawgustusgloop]

No body said he was a genius. I just said he wasn't stupid. I don't really see where he presents himself to be a genius either, but then again I don't know the guy personally.... Never been around him at all. So, since you feel this way, you guys must hang around him personally a lot, huh? :eek:

Yes, we see each other socially quite frequently. I drive up to Dover from the Dallas area every weekend and we laugh about this little inside joke we have where I post stuff online all week saying he's a murderer and stuff.

All kidding aside, my opinion is that the prosecutor has charged the right person with Nona's murder. If Kevin is guilty, and I personally feel like he probably is, then he MUST think he's pretty darn brilliant IMO if he thought he could fool everyone by bringing his mom and friend to "discover" her body, rubbing his hands in her blood, etc. I don't know if he is stupid or not and don't care to find out, but I know it's pretty stupid to think you can outsmart law enforcement and everyone else and get away with murder.

[FDInLaw]

No body said he was a genius. I just said he wasn't stupid. I don't really see where he presents himself to be a genius either, but then again I don't know the guy personally.... Never been around him at all. So, since you feel this way, you guys must hang around him personally a lot, huh? :eek:
Considering the fact that we are talking about the prime suspect for a murder that occurred over a year ago . . . and must of us have, for that whole duration, studied his every move. . . why would we have to know Kevin personally to have an opinion about his level of intelligence or arrogance?

[andjustice4all]

Loretta, you have taken what I said out of context. I'm saying kids do much more risque things nowadays, and having risque sex with more than one person is involved is something I feel is not uncommon. I don't think there was a rape, so I wasn't saying rape was ok. I don't think underage drinking is ok, but we know it happens all the time and has for years. Its not something new to this case. Even if the girl had been tested for drugs, it'd be very unlikely a one time hald tab of Ecstasy would show up. It would have likely flushed out her system.
quote from the courier:
"Rhoads wrote “it was apparent that [the accuser] had some knowledge of the events and even joked with the encounters.”
The report included the content of the text messages the accuser sent.
“Ok..not that I don’t already feel easy seein that weve hung out twice now..and everyone there prolly thinks im a *****..haha..but I also did that classic lose an earring and im betting in bed..so..if somone finds a random earring its mine..haha..[sic],” the accuser texted to Simmons at 12:44 p.m. on Dec. 29.
“Haha...I am SO sorry...i honestly don’t remember most of last night..and I don’t know how I got drunk so fast..im such a lightweight!! [sic]” she texted at 1:12 p.m. that day. There were seven more messages to Simmons from the accuser made that day.
"The accuser admitted to investigators she had sent the messages because she wanted “to be cool about it.” She said she changed her mind when she heard “what Huckabay had observed she felt she had been violated,” according to the report."
I honestly don't know a lot of kids that act responsibly at this age.
As for teaching children guidance, it doesn't mean they are gonna follow and live that way to the T.
I know my parent taught me well, but I don't live exactly to her discretiong. I lived with my husband for nearly a year before we got married. To my mother, that was the most horrendous thing in the world. For me, it was possibly the smartest decision I ever made. I was older and set in my ways and not quite prepared for the ready made family that came with my husband like I thought I was ready. It gave me good adjustment time that if I hadn't had it, we probably would have gotten divorced fairly quickly.
Kids take what you teach them with a grain of salt.
The partying is pretty common among kids these days, and its done for different reasons. Sometimes kids use drugs and drink to get away. I learned that at a place where I worked. It's called a drug rehab. You cannot second guess why people do these things because you aren't in their shoes first hand. You do not know what's going on in their head, and untill you go through it, you won't have any idea. Most of the time it's not done for enjoyment as you think.

When we lived in Texas a neighbor of ours was falsely accused of raping a girl. After word spread she had slept with him, her angry ex came after her, along with others, and her way out was to blame someone else for her actions and decisions. It was obvious her stories were fabricated and our neighbor was never charged. She never admitted to the lies because she would have set herself up for criminal charges and then would have to explain to everyone about the big lie she created. There were other motives for her deceit but mainly she was escaping the anger of those pressuring her, so she chose to blame an innocent person rather than face public scrutiny. False allegations happen more often than you think and we should be careful not to view false allegations as fact. Slander is also a serious crime no matter how you try to sugar-coat it. I have been reading this board but decided this would be my last view and first/last posting. There seems to be a group of vicious people on here who enjoy creating an environment of hatred and inflated rumor. There is no truth or even reasonable discussion most of the time. Just a lot of hate speech and cruelty, and a strange bias I can't quite put my finger on, that runs throughout the board consistantly. Creepy. . . .

[FDInLaw]

When we lived in Texas a neighbor of ours was falsely accused of raping a girl. After word spread she had slept with him, her angry ex came after her, along with others, and her way out was to blame someone else for her actions and decisions. It was obvious her stories were fabricated and our neighbor was never charged. She never admitted to the lies because she would have set herself up for criminal charges and then would have to explain to everyone about the big lie she created. There were other motives for her deceit but mainly she was escaping the anger of those pressuring her, so she chose to blame an innocent person rather than face public scrutiny. False allegations happen more often than you think and we should be careful not to view false allegations as fact. Slander is also a serious crime no matter how you try to sugar-coat it. I have been reading this board but decided this would be my last view and first/last posting. There seems to be a group of vicious people on here who enjoy creating an environment of hatred and inflated rumor. There is no truth or even reasonable discussion most of the time. Just a lot of hate speech and cruelty, and a strange bias I can't quite put my finger on, that runs throughout the board consistantly. Creepy. . . . Welcome to the board! I'm afraid you will not respond to this post as you stated that you would not even read it from now on. Your story about the false accusations is a good addition here and one for everyone to keep in mind. As to your other assertions, I feel compelled to respond. . . I would like to know if you feel I have added to the atmosphere of "hatred and inflated rumor." Feel free to write me privately if you are not comfortable responding here. I don't think it is fair to use such strong language and then just disappear. If you feel there are false accusations or rumors propagated here, what are they and who is spreading them? How do know there "is no truth"? Peace ~ FD

[lemoncello]

I've missed this board! I did not know it was back up until I was alerted!
Thank you!

So, has there been any discussion of the condom wrapper that contains male DNA that does not belong to Kevin? Gross! How would you even get this in order to plant at the crime scene?????? What is up with this? If he did this, this is some serious premeditation!

Also, what about the SIM card... Was it really wiped clean while in the state's possession? Will the phone evidence be ruled inadmissible due to this?

Does the state's case look weak to anyone now, because of the delay?

And what is up with Nona's computer being accessed that night? Wasn't this after they found her? Did the police get on the computer?


This has probably been discussed on the board already but bring me up to date!

about when the
computer was accessed...
the defense made a typo
so sayeth a later filing...
the computer was accessed
at 11:15 a.m...

[lemoncello]

also...
FYI...
freshwater has
posted some court docs
scans at the
state v. kevin jones
thread...

[ValleyGirl]

I think that the case is blundered. To me, the state should have proceeded on. They were so slow to bring charges, it seemed that they were being very methodical about putting the evidence together; I think the prosecutor even said that he wanted to make sure that the case was solid for a trial. The arrest happened and they seemed to have a quiet confidence in the press conference, they even stated that there would still be work to do and the trial would be in January 07. Then they ask for a continuance based on lightbulb tests???? It seems weak to me.

I've been thinking about jury selection, which is always key. Normally the juries here are elderly / older people. This could swing in so many ways... If you have some little old ladies, Kevin could possibly get the sympathy vote. Older men might vote for the good ole' boy, he's lived around here forever and attends church on Sunday, could never do this thing because they are a good family... I could go on and on and on. What hasn't helped is that Nona sadly seems to have been put on the back burner.

The paper drives me crazy! I don't think the reporting helps either side.

Gosh, I have been gone a long time! I could go on forever about this.:eek: It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

All of this of course, is in my very humble, 2 cents worth of worthlessness opinion!

Seriously though, lets talk about jury selection! What are your thoughts and opinions?

[lemoncello]

actually...
from what i understand...
the timing of the judges
retirement was political...
he gave his notice
the day gov. beebe took
office...
to do it earlier
would mean huckabee
would make the appointment
for the replacement...
judge is a dem...
beebe is a dem...
huckabee is a repub...
dont want huckabuck
putting a republican
judge in pope co...
so sayeth the
county republicans...
i know, hard to
believe this may
have nothing at all
to do with this case...

[FDInLaw]

Gee, I live in nearly the same town he does and no nothing about him except what is in the paper. You live pretty far away. You'd have to follow him around ALL the time. I seriously doubt you know little more than what's in the paper either. IMO, you just think you know a heck of a lot more than you really do.
It seems every time you address me you make it clear that you do not respect my opinion. I GOT IT. Your personal opinion of me has been made crystal clear. Can you move on and stick with discussing the case?
:shrug:

[FDInLaw]

I think that the case is blundered. To me, the state should have proceeded on. They were so slow to bring charges, it seemed that they were being very methodical about putting the evidence together; I think the prosecutor even said that he wanted to make sure that the case was solid for a trial. The arrest happened and they seemed to have a quiet confidence in the press conference, they even stated that there would still be work to do and the trial would be in January 07. Then they ask for a continuance based on lightbulb tests???? It seems weak to me.

I've been thinking about jury selection, which is always key. Normally the juries here are elderly / older people. This could swing in so many ways... If you have some little old ladies, Kevin could possibly get the sympathy vote. Older men might vote for the good ole' boy, he's lived around here forever and attends church on Sunday, could never do this thing because they are a good family... I could go on and on and on. What hasn't helped is that Nona sadly seems to have been put on the back burner.

The paper drives me crazy! I don't think the reporting helps either side.

Gosh, I have been gone a long time! I could go on forever about this.:eek: It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

All of this of course, is in my very humble, 2 cents worth of worthlessness opinion!

Seriously though, lets talk about jury selection! What are your thoughts and opinions? Great topic for discussion! Let me sleep on it and, as always, I'll be back.

:seeya:

[Brainstorm]

I think they took so long to make an arrest because they didn't have a clue. I think the prosecutor took so long to make a decision because the case is not rock solid, at all. I don't think they arrested Kevin because they were targeting him or whatever it is that everyone on here says. I think they made Kevin their lead suspect, simply because of a lack of a better one. He was her supposed fiance', so who else. I really don't think they had a clue as to who did and were under a lot of pressure to find one. This sort of thing has never really happens much here, and it wasn't a cut and dry case. I'm sure the public didn't help in that case. They wanted a murderer arrested, they wanted it to be cut and dry. People were freaking out, to say the least people were in shock. Henceforth, a lot of pressure ended up going on the RPD and the prosecutor. I think the light bulb testing has opened some eyes, mainly the judge and the prosecutor. I strongly feel they think this budges the case and makes it not as strong. I also think the prosecutor realizes they may have the wrong man , and he didn't want to be a part of it. Possibly it played a part in speeding up his retirement plans. :shrug:
I also don't think there is much of the good ol' boy system going on because I don't really feel that the business owners from Lil' ol' Dover, AR aren't really all that prominent for that to be taking place. IMO, they are still pretty small time.


Oh I think the prosecutor has the right man,allright. Just wondering if Kevin is keeping his nose clean nowadays?
JMHO

[FDInLaw]

By the way, it's not personal, none of it is. I don't even know you.
You're right, it's not personal and you don't know me.

[jonikay]

kg**,
however "big" this particular case may be for judge patterson, it pales in comparison to the whole ronald gene simmons fiasco in which he officiated. even though simmons confessed, patterson will always be known for that trial, not this one. (jones and simmons were both from "little 'ol Dover, ar") i see his retiring as a mere coincidence.

[lorettalockhorn]

quote from lorettalockhorn "Yeah, I read the Courier articles. I stand by what I said. I don't see what your statement about interracial, gay or lesbian relationships having to do with the price of tea in China. OR in regard to this issue.

Well, I feel my opinion is quite clear, it's pretty simple actually, but I don't think I can explain it any better than that, so I guess I'll just have to leave it at that.

I've been thinking this over some and I'm wondering if what you are saying is that as interracial and gay/lesbian relationships increase in numbers and/or visibility that today's youth is inured to aberrant behavior?

Also, thanks for explaining your usage of COP to me, I really thought from the tone of many of your posts that you have a bitter attitude toward law enforcement in general. Glad to know that's not the case. Sometimes it's just so darned hard to really "get" what someone is trying to convey on a message board.

[lorettalockhorn]

About that stick, I think that it was destroyed by the killer, either because it contained DNA evidence or so that LE would think that it had been missing all along and a stranger would easily be able to enter the apartment by throwing his weight against the door as KJ demonstrated.

I think that the jury will be pretty mixed. Don't think that either side is going to let any one faction (for lack of a better term) outnumber another if possible. I guess the attorneys can use their challenges to what they feel is advantageous. Wonder if there are any jury consultants working on this case?

RE: Patterson; my understanding is that he was planning on retiring in '07 all along and that he speeded up retirement rather than delaying it. So when he originally made his plans, he stood a pretty good chance of having a Democrat guv naming his replacement. I personally can see that he didn't want to be knee deep in this trial on the retirement date or have someone coming in immediately before it was to start because of the continuance. Disclaimer: give or take whenever his original retirement date was set to be, June 30 maybe? Who knows, maybe he decided that he was tired of schlepping to work every day?

[lorettalockhorn]

hehehe Now I am answering my own post! I read in one of the articles that Patterson's term was through 2008 (which I knew) but I honestly thought that I had read that he had been contemplating retirement around the middle of this year. Sorry for speaking out of school.

Also, in the court documents; page seven is the pretrial conditions checklist. I noticed (using my trusty magnifying glass) that #6 states that KJ should not consume alcohol or other controlled substances unless prescribed, and that #7 states that he is subject to drug testing when he checks into the sheriff's office each week. So that answers some of the questions about how clean he's been keeping his nose re: drugs. But I wonder how Gibbons was convinced that he wasn't drinking at the 12/28/06 party?

Thanks to Freshwater for posting the documents and to lemon for the heads up.

[jonikay]

ha ha, loretta! you go! according to reliable sources, you can pass drug tests given by the pd just by going to a certain store and buying something that you will pee out, giving a false negative. it happens all the time, but surely kevin wouldn't risk that, he is smart you know. and . . . i totally noticed the drug and alcohol stipulation in the court documents, too!:D

[FDInLaw]

hehehe Now I am answering my own post! I read in one of the articles that Patterson's term was through 2008 (which I knew) but I honestly thought that I had read that he had been contemplating retirement around the middle of this year. Sorry for speaking out of school.

Also, in the court documents; page seven is the pretrial conditions checklist. I noticed (using my trusty magnifying glass) that #6 states that KJ should not consume alcohol or other controlled substances unless prescribed, and that #7 states that he is subject to drug testing when he checks into the sheriff's office each week. So that answers some of the questions about how clean he's been keeping his nose re: drugs. But I wonder how Gibbons was convinced that he wasn't drinking at the 12/28/06 party?

Thanks to Freshwater for posting the documents and to lemon for the heads up.Thank you for posting these bail conditions. . . that particular document is hard to read. My printer didn't do the best job printing it out and I doubt I would have been able to read it even with a magnifying glass! One would hope Kevin is smart enough to stay clean. His poor parents, they have to deal with both the financial and social ramifications of his actions. I'm sure the Whiteside party episode caused them quiet a bit of grief as well as extra consultations with their lawyers. Personally, I'm not going to be shocked at all if Kevin does get busted at some point for substance abuse. JMO

[FDInLaw]

Good morning, FD,

Just a quick question. Why would KJ's parent's have bear the financial strain of his defense? Isn't he an adult? I would hope that he would be responsible enough to get a job and help pay his lawyers bills. Good grief, there's just so much a parent should have to bear for the actions of the children. JMHO. Financially, if it were all up to Kevin, he would have to settle with a court appointed lawyer IMO. I don't know what he is doing at present, but he use to work at the family gas station and at a local cafe. His family seems to be willingly covering his legal costs. Sure, Kevin may be an adult now, but how many individuals his age could deal with this financial burden on their own? Hiram and Janise appear to be enterprising and responsible folks, I'm sure Kevin has some sort of job right now. I really don't know, but I believe they would not look kindly on any of their children living in an unproductive manner. Mind you, this is just my impression based on just bits and pieces of information. Truly JMO.

[JR2007]

Hello, I've been reading in the background for sometime now, haven't read all the post yet, but getting there. I have not posted on this site before so bear with me as I learn my way around. Have been very interested in this case since the beginning. I probably will not post much,but registered to allow me to answer some of the questions asked and to get some of my questions answered.

[FDInLaw]

Hello, I've been reading in the background for sometime now, haven't read all the post yet, but getting there. I have not posted on this site before so bear with me as I learn my way around. Have been very interested in this case since the beginning. I probably will not post much,but registered to allow me to answer some of the questions asked and to get some of my questions answered. Welcome to the board! It's always nice to have more local perspective!


:seeya:

[FDInLaw]

Kennedy to replace Patterson as judge. . .

http://www.couriernews.com/story.php?ID=13641

[lorettalockhorn]

Kennedy to replace Patterson as judge. . .

http://www.couriernews.com/story.php?ID=13641

I'm a huge fan of both the Kennedy boys. But then again, I AM a yellow dog Democrat!! :D

Anyway, I've known him for many years and consider him to be one of the good guys.

Welcome to JR, I'm still reading too.

[FDInLaw]

I'm a huge fan of both the Kennedy boys. But then again, I AM a yellow dog Democrat!! :D

Anyway, I've known him for many years and consider him to be one of the good guys.

I was hoping there would be some local response concerning the new appointment. Can you tell us more? What kind of reputation does Kennedy have in general? Is he respected by most folks regardless of political party? Is he known to be tough on crime? Anything you can share would be great. ~ FD

[lorettalockhorn]

I was hoping there would be some local response concerning the new appointment. Can you tell us more? What kind of reputation does Kennedy have in general? Is he respected by most folks regardless of political party? Is he known to be tough on crime? Anything you can share would be great. ~ FD

He has a good reputation in the legal community as far as I know; don't think that I recall him working as a criminal attorney per se. His brother Tom was Prosecuting Attorney in this district and I believe that he was a deputy (someone correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't remember him actually handling any cases. He was in Little Rock for several years while in medical school until he came back, worked as a clinic administrator and then took over as administrator at Dardanelle Hospital.

By saying that he's one of the good guys, I mostly mean that there are many attorneys and/or municipal judges in the district whose appointment would have made me cringe. (I do think that he's a fine person personally.)

[JR2007]

Jim Kennedy would not be my choice for Circuit Judge. He is a very likeable guy, but with little criminal law. He did serve as assistant prosecuter for the district after his brother was the Procecuter. I would much rather see Patterson as thejudge here. He was respected by most all, no matter what ]his politics were,JMO. I serve a couple times on juries under Patterson and found him very capable. JMO

[janetlynn]

I just hope that they pick some people that are willing to look at all of the evidence and not jump to conclusions. The last thing that Nona’s family needs is a mis-trial.

[JR2007]

I would think that they would defer this case to Judge Satterfields court, since he is one of the 4 circuit court judges in the district that has been handling criminal cases. I believe Kennedy is ill equiped for this, at this time. JMO
As far as jurors are concerned each side will have the chance to kick out so many prospective jurors and the judge can kick out any he doesn't see as fit.

[FKfanMoe]

My apologies. Sometimes my memory on names turns faulty. Also sometimes I make typos but in this case I just mis-rememebered the name.

As for " inside knowledge". I sure as heck don't claim that. I have read of true crime cases where a two individuals when they become a duo become criminal and do things neither one individually would do. This murder could have been from a sole attacker. I am just throwing out another possibility. I don't think we will know the details of this case until during the trial, if the police and the prosecutor are doing their jobs.

BTW yes Russellville ( Arkansas Tech University) did have a Miss USA who later became the actress for a Highlander spinoff . Her alleged Clinton connection is retty much like anything Hollywood- lotta hype out of proportion to whatever little facts there are.

Moe

[ValleyGirl]

Elizabeth Ward was heavily tied to Clinton! I'm not sure I am following your post by there was more than hype to that rumor!

[lorettalockhorn]

I would think that they would defer this case to Judge Satterfields court, since he is one of the 4 circuit court judges in the district that has been handling criminal cases. I believe Kennedy is ill equiped for this, at this time. JMO
As far as jurors are concerned each side will have the chance to kick out so many prospective jurors and the judge can kick out any he doesn't see as fit.


Can't say that I disagree about JK; if Kennedy wasn't to hear the case, I'd almost rather it be Coker than Sutterfield. Despite his age, I think that he is the most well-rounded. To the best of my knowledge, none of the circuit judges are experts in criminal law. Which is NOT to say that they haven't boned up on it.

Oy vey! to the drug testing/false positive issue. Spending money on drugs has got to be expensive; now peeps have to add an additional line item to the budget for an additive???

Moe, I'm not sure that I understand the gist of your post? Are you saying that you think that it is the work of two perps? And that the trial will bear that out? (Is E Ward Gracen somehow connected?)

Merrick--good question about The Perfect Jury. Personally, I don't see it as being any one age group, gender, religion, etc.

[JR2007]

Loretta:
You could be right about Judge Coker. I don't know much about him. He has not been handling any of the criminal cases in the 5th district though. He has been pretty much 100% on juvenile.

[optimumprimal78]

Its not going to matter what the gender or age is of the jury. It's going to be which ones can forget their beliefs in order to produce a fair trial (either way). Everyone in the river valley has formed some sort of opinion and I think that that will be the hardest thing for people selected for the jury to do. It will also provide quite a task in selecting who can weigh all the facts and not just keep with what they thought from the beginning.

Also, we all know that kj has been hanging out with his crew. After reading the list that said no drugs/alcohol, it has made me fairly angry that he was not taken in (was he even tested?). It is not a secret as to what some of the people he hangs out with do. Why would you allow your kid to go out and be with people that may have a reputation for something like that? I know the parents and they are good people, however, I question their lack of judgment in this matter. If they are spending the money for his part of the trial, either he should use a little common sense or they should have him under watch. I know that if it were my kid the only way they would leave the house would be if someone I trusted went with him.

[FDInLaw]

Its not going to matter what the gender or age is of the jury. It's going to be which ones can forget their beliefs in order to produce a fair trial (either way). Everyone in the river valley has formed some sort of opinion and I think that that will be the hardest thing for people selected for the jury to do. It will also provide quite a task in selecting who can weigh all the facts and not just keep with what they thought from the beginning.

Also, we all know that kj has been hanging out with his crew. After reading the list that said no drugs/alcohol, it has made me fairly angry that he was not taken in (was he even tested?). It is not a secret as to what some of the people he hangs out with do. Why would you allow your kid to go out and be with people that may have a reputation for something like that? I know the parents and they are good people, however, I question their lack of judgment in this matter. If they are spending the money for his part of the trial, either he should use a little common sense or they should have him under watch. I know that if it were my kid the only way they would leave the house would be if someone I trusted went with him.

Believe it or not, there are folks in the River Valley that have not formed an opinion about Nona's murder. A month or so ago Carol Dipert and a friend stood in front of a grocery store and handed out "Justice For Nona!" bumper stickers. They were approached by several people that hadn't heard ANYTHING. I was a little shocked, but this is good for jury selection.

Regarding Kevin; unfortunately, he is way beyond the age of requiring a babysitter. His parents shouldn't have to watch him all the time. However, they are not without leverage. . . they could threaten to kick him out of the house if he does not keep his nose clean. Also, they could stop paying his legal bills. Kevin's parents could (and should IMO) do more, but, like many parents, they may still be in denial somehow. I'm with you, OP. . . I would really like to know if Kevin has been tested for drugs recently. IMO Kevin is not merely some "good kid" hanging out with the wrong crowd. . . it's my understanding that his reputation is really no better than the rest of them. JMO

[lorettalockhorn]

Optimum, for the life of me, I can't imagine after this last brouhaha over the party situation that any of these parents would want their kids hanging out with the other kids. But I get the feeling that these kids were brought up in permissive households; maybe the parents just aren't in the habit of setting limits.

JR, I'm fully aware that Coker has been sitting as the juvenile judge. As much as I like Sutterfield, I just don't think that he is the right person to handle this case; I honestly think that Coker would be most suited.

FD, agree that the Joneses could (and should IMO) exert some pressure and control over their boy's behavior. But I'd be willing to bet that they signed a contract with the attorney to pay his legal expenses. One thing I'd do if he was MY kid and I had my savings/retirement/mortgage/etc on the line is; have him drug tested myself on a random basis. If he came up pos, I'd turn his butt over to the prosecutor. I'm guessing that he doesn't drink before any testing that is done in accordance with the pre-trial agreement. And if he's doing drugs; maybe taking the False Negative Substance that was mentioned above.

Since even KJ's biggest supporter Chelsea(sp) was reported as stating that they were all drinking at the party on the 28th, I wish that Gibbons had addressed the issue since it is a condition of release. It's one thing to have a murderer (minimally a suspect) out on bond until July. But quite another to have a drunken out one kicking up his heels.

[Amy]

Believe it or not, there are folks in the River Valley that have not formed an opinion about Nona's murder. A month or so ago Carol Dipert and a friend stood in front of a grocery store and handed out "Justice For Nona!" bumper stickers. They were approached by several people that hadn't heard ANYTHING. I was a little shocked, but this is good for jury selection.

....snip



This comes up on a lot of boards. I think, cuz WE (the posters) are so involved in following different cases, sometimes we think that everyone (at least everyone in the area of the crime) is as involved as we are.

In reality, even in somewhat rural areas, there are people who might hear about a crime, but they have things going on in their lives that take precedence, and don't pay much attention to all the comings and goings, who, if anyone is arrested, etc.

And, there are people who don't even read newspapers or watch the news on tv. These people can't be influenced by any media (when it comes to the lawyers complaining about needing change of venue.)

Anyway, I personally think there are people all over the US who, whether they have heard a lot about a case or not, can actually sit thru a trial and judge a case on only what is presented during the trial to make a decision about the innocence or guilt of the defendant.

In some previous cases, there were those posters who really think the average American can't listen to evidence and make up their own minds..that everyone MUST be influenced by what they see/hear in the media. I feel sorry for them. I am like the majority of posters who say, regardless of what I have already seen or heard, I am willing to listen to the evidence presented, and to whether or not the defense can discredit the evidence, and make a decision based on the events at the trial.

Besides, the media isn't the be-all, end-all. How many times has a newspaper or network put out information without taking the time to check things out--all because they want to scoop the other media? A lot of misinformation comes out in the media...so I usually take what I read/hear with a BIG grain of salt.

[JR2007]

[QUOTE=FDInLaw;8808099]Believe it or not, there are folks in the River Valley that have not formed an opinion about Nona's murder. A month or so ago Carol Dipert and a friend stood in front of a grocery store and handed out "Justice For Nona!" bumper stickers. They were approached by several people that hadn't heard ANYTHING. I was a little shocked, but this is good for jury selection.




Just for fun today, I asked 5 people, that I work with, if they knew who Nona Dirksmeyer or Kevin Jones was. It was kind of interesting.

1 person didn't know either one, thought Kevin was the name of a guy in our electronics dept.

1 person said, " wasn't she a girl that was stabbed at Tech.

2 people had heard about it but didn't have any of the details.

1 Person was well informed and knew most of the details.

As you can tell I haven't learned how to post a reply correctly yet.

[JR2007]

This comes up on a lot of boards. I think, cuz WE (the posters) are so involved in following different cases, sometimes we think that everyone (at least everyone in the area of the crime) is as involved as we are.

In reality, even in somewhat rural areas, there are people who might hear about a crime, but they have things going on in their lives that take precedence, and don't pay much attention to all the comings and goings, who, if anyone is arrested, etc.

And, there are people who don't even read newspapers or watch the news on tv. These people can't be influenced by any media (when it comes to the lawyers complaining about needing change of venue.)

Anyway, I personally think there are people all over the US who, whether they have heard a lot about a case or not, can actually sit thru a trial and judge a case on only what is presented during the trial to make a decision about the innocence or guilt of the defendant.

In some previous cases, there were those posters who really think the average American can't listen to evidence and make up their own minds..that everyone MUST be influenced by what they see/hear in the media. I feel sorry for them. I am like the majority of posters who say, regardless of what I have already seen or heard, I am willing to listen to the evidence presented, and to whether or not the defense can discredit the evidence, and make a decision based on the events at the trial.

Besides, the media isn't the be-all, end-all. How many times has a newspaper or network put out information without taking the time to check things out--all because they want to scoop the other media? A lot of misinformation comes out in the media...so I usually take what I read/hear with a BIG grain of salt.
Amy,
I pretty much agree with what you were saying about being able to make up you mind about the case based on the evidence presented. I feel that I also would have no problem doing this.
As it stand I feel that KJ is quilty, but if the prosecutor doesn't have more evidence then I've read or heard about thus far, then I'm afraid I'd have trouble convicting KJ.

[hawgustusgloop]

Is anyone familiar enough with Arkansas criminal procedure to know when defense attorneys would typically request a change of venue? Do they wait and do it at the beginning of the trial or has the time for that passed already? Normally, it seems like in well-known cases that happen in smaller communities like this, the defense attorneys are quick to ask for a change of venue. Did they ask for one and it was denied? Otherwise, I am really starting to think his attorneys think he may have a better chance of being found not guilty in Pope County than he would somewhere else. His family is respected in the community and there were those bizarre "We love you Kevin" or whatever signs in Dover after his arrest. What do you all think?

[JR2007]

Is anyone familiar enough with Arkansas criminal procedure to know when defense attorneys would typically request a change of venue? Do they wait and do it at the beginning of the trial or has the time for that passed already? Normally, it seems like in well-known cases that happen in smaller communities like this, the defense attorneys are quick to ask for a change of venue. Did they ask for one and it was denied? Otherwise, I am really starting to think his attorneys think he may have a better chance of being found not guilty in Pope County than he would somewhere else. His family is respected in the community and there were those bizarre "We love you Kevin" or whatever signs in Dover after his arrest. What do you all think?
Hawggust
according to the following link, it sounds as if a change of venue can be asked for during jury select. So I would think it could be requested up until the trial begins.
http://courts.state.ar.us/opinions/1999a/19990513/cr99-024.html

[FDInLaw]

Steve Huff posted this at his crime blog:
http://crimeblog.us/?p=318

ETA: It's nothing new, though.

Thanks for the link. . . I had seen the first part but not the update. I'm not quite sure why Steve is so confident the rape did not occur at all.


"This accusation has been discredited. I don’t have a relevant link at the moment, but apparently the person making the accusations left evidence of complicity in what happened — no rape occurred."


In my mind it's a real toss up, I honestly don't know what happened (there are red flags everywhere), but just because no charges were filed does not prove there was no crime . . . only simply that there was not enough evidence to proceed. MOO

[FDInLaw]

http://www.couriernews.com/story.php?ID=13740

[FDInLaw]

Hi FD!

IMO, Steve was summarizing his thoughts on what happened and not necessarily what the was told directly. I think he's probably talking about all the joking text messages the victim sent RW the next day (complicity) and the prosecutor's decision not to file charges for lack of evidence, the accusation being discredited would be the combination of the above thoughts. However, ITA 100% that no charges does not equate to no rape.

JMHO.

ETA - Glad you're back and hope all is well!

Hey Merrick!

I've been around. . . just not much to talk about. :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks for the link. . . I had seen the first part but not the update. I'm not quite sure why Steve is so confident the rape did not occur at all.


"This accusation has been discredited. I don’t have a relevant link at the moment, but apparently the person making the accusations left evidence of complicity in what happened — no rape occurred."


In my mind it's a real toss up, I honestly don't know what happened (there are red flags everywhere), but just because no charges were filed does not prove there was no crime . . . only simply that there was not enough evidence to proceed. MOO

Your last sentence pretty much describes how I see it. I'm a little surprised by his wording. Does he have information that hasn't been published??

[FDInLaw]

Your last sentence pretty much describes how I see it. I'm a little surprised by his wording. Does he have information that hasn't been published??

This is just my gut, I seriously doubt Steve knows more than the rest of us on this one. He follows a vast number of cases, IMO he was just trying to sum up and move on. ~ FD

[christina]

ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE

Posted on Tuesday, February 6, 2007

URL: http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/181035/

RUSSELLVILLE An Arkansas Tech University student accused The Courier newspaper of libel in a lawsuit filed Monday in Pope County Circuit Court.

The complaint, filed by Ryan Whiteside, 20, of Russellville, says the newspaper printed an article Jan. 11 that contained false accusations? implicating him in the commission of a crime or crimes.

Reached by telephone, Scott Perkins, editor of The Courier, said: I have no comment. I don't know about the lawsuit. Perkins is named as a defendant in the suit, as is the newspaper's owner, Paxton Media Group LLC of Paducah, Ky.; publisher Neal Ronquist; and Janie Ginocchio, the reporter whose byline was on the Jan. 11 article as well as a related article Jan. 15.

Whiteside's suit said the Jan. 11 article stemmed from a police report based entirely upon hearsay. The lawsuit, filed by Houston, Texas, attorney H. Clay Moore and Little Rock attorney R. David Lewis, accuses the newspaper of negligence, claiming it, among other things, published a police report marked no press, carried the story before any charges were filed and failed to contact Whiteside for a statement.

Further, the lawsuit says the newspaper used the Jan. 15 article, which reported Prosecuting Attorney David Gibbons? decision not to file charges in the matter, as an opportunity to republish all the salacious allegations appearing in the [original ] article and adding others.

[FDInLaw]

ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE

Posted on Tuesday, February 6, 2007

URL: http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/181035/

RUSSELLVILLE An Arkansas Tech University student accused The Courier newspaper of libel in a lawsuit filed Monday in Pope County Circuit Court.

The complaint, filed by Ryan Whiteside, 20, of Russellville, says the newspaper printed an article Jan. 11 that contained false accusations? implicating him in the commission of a crime or crimes.

Reached by telephone, Scott Perkins, editor of The Courier, said: I have no comment. I don't know about the lawsuit. Perkins is named as a defendant in the suit, as is the newspaper's owner, Paxton Media Group LLC of Paducah, Ky.; publisher Neal Ronquist; and Janie Ginocchio, the reporter whose byline was on the Jan. 11 article as well as a related article Jan. 15.

Whiteside's suit said the Jan. 11 article stemmed from a police report based entirely upon hearsay. The lawsuit, filed by Houston, Texas, attorney H. Clay Moore and Little Rock attorney R. David Lewis, accuses the newspaper of negligence, claiming it, among other things, published a police report marked no press, carried the story before any charges were filed and failed to contact Whiteside for a statement.

Further, the lawsuit says the newspaper used the Jan. 15 article, which reported Prosecuting Attorney David Gibbons? decision not to file charges in the matter, as an opportunity to republish all the salacious allegations appearing in the [original ] article and adding others.
Thanks for the link!
:seeya:

[lemoncello]

This is just my gut, I seriously doubt Steve knows more than the rest of us on this one. He follows a vast number of cases, IMO he was just trying to sum up and move on. ~ FD

maybe he
got threatened
with a libel lawsuit too...

[hawgustusgloop]

I am starting to get the impression that instead of being furiously mad at their kid for having a party at their house which likely IMO included underage drinking at the very least AND ended up in the local paper, the Whitesides are lashing out at the people who reported on it instead. Legally, they may have a good case for all I know, particularly if the "no press" claim is accurate. I think if I ever had a kid that acted so irresponsibly in my home, I'd ask them what they would've expected to happen under the circumstances and thank my lucky stars nothing worse occurred.

I think if I were Ryan Whiteside I would be over my friendship with Kevin Jones by now. Just look at all the trouble it has brought him. IMO Kevin intentionally dragged him into a murder investigation to cover Kevin's rear end. IMO this party incident would never have been in the news if Kevin weren't there. I wonder what the dynamics of their friendship is like if he is still willing to be Kevin's friend. Originally when I read about what took place, with Kevin insisting on Ryan going to Nona's door, etc. and Ryan saying that would be weird IIRC, I wondered if Kevin were trying to set Ryan up or something. I wondered if the condom wrapper was Ryan's and maybe Kevin knew where to find it. But that is probably just sheer lunacy on my part.

I couldn't go back and read the original article, but IIRC, the articles reported what was ALLEGED in the police report and didn't report the supposed occurrences as fact. They also reported later that no charges were filed. Plus, when you are hanging out with an accused murderer and IMO probably engaging in at least some illegal activity, how much damage is this going to do to your reputation anyway?

All my opinion only.

[lorettalockhorn]

ARKANSAS DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE

Posted on Tuesday, February 6, 2007

URL: http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/181035/

RUSSELLVILLE An Arkansas Tech University student accused The Courier newspaper of libel in a lawsuit filed Monday in Pope County Circuit Court.

The complaint, filed by Ryan Whiteside, 20, of Russellville, says the newspaper printed an article Jan. 11 that contained false accusations? implicating him in the commission of a crime or crimes.

Reached by telephone, Scott Perkins, editor of The Courier, said: I have no comment. I don't know about the lawsuit. Perkins is named as a defendant in the suit, as is the newspaper's owner, Paxton Media Group LLC of Paducah, Ky.; publisher Neal Ronquist; and Janie Ginocchio, the reporter whose byline was on the Jan. 11 article as well as a related article Jan. 15.

Whiteside's suit said the Jan. 11 article stemmed from a police report based entirely upon hearsay. The lawsuit, filed by Houston, Texas, attorney H. Clay Moore and Little Rock attorney R. David Lewis, accuses the newspaper of negligence, claiming it, among other things, published a police report marked no press, carried the story before any charges were filed and failed to contact Whiteside for a statement.

Further, the lawsuit says the newspaper used the Jan. 15 article, which reported Prosecuting Attorney David Gibbons? decision not to file charges in the matter, as an opportunity to republish all the salacious allegations appearing in the [original ] article and adding others.

To the best of my knowlege, the request for no press is simply that; a request by any of the involved parties for any number of reasons for the information to not be published. It is not mandated; therefore, it really means nothing. Please someone, correct me if I'm wrong.

I stated in the other thread that I think that the community has every right to know that an important witness in an upcoming case has serious allegations/possible charges pending, especially if he's a sheep in a wolf's clothing. (It's bad enough that a murderer walks the streets whether it's KJ or not.) The Whitesides should count their blessings that Ryan wasn't charged and move on, since they too weren't charged with allowing the party where alcohol was provided to the underage drinker. Don't really know if the parents are behind the lawsuit, but it looks bad to me that they are so honked off as to support a legal action against the paper.

[FKfanMoe]

Moe, I'm not sure that I understand the gist of your post? Are you saying that you think that it is the work of two perps? And that the trial will bear that out? (Is E Ward Gracen somehow connected?)

Merrick--good question about The Perfect Jury. Personally, I don't see it as being any one age group, gender, religion, etc.

Am I NOT being clear in my posts?

First off, I said it was a POSSIBILITY. I am NOT saying that is what happened.
Secondy Eliz Ward was mentioned in one post and I responded. I DID NOT CONNECT HER TO THIS DAMN MURDER.

AM I MAKING MYSELF CLEAR TO YOU???

I threw in the duo murderers scenario because there are a few things about this case that hint that is a possiblity. The two means of attacking Nona, for example.

The Elixzabeth Ward topic is only because she was from ATU and the claim she had sex with Bill Clinton.

Now then, you gonna try to misread THAT now?
:flamemad: :mad:

Moe

[FKfanMoe]

ITA. What is it that they say - The best offense is a defense, or is it the other way around. Oh well, I guess either could apply here. JMHO.

Actually most reporters have guidelines set by the eidtor or publisher as to what they can or should not disclose in their articles. In this case, if Whiteside was legally an adult and the police report was available to the public, then the paper can publish what was in the report and the name of the accused. Since the female that was " allegedly sexually assaulted" was underage, her name would not be published. The recent claim of sexual assault in a school bus story, for example did not publish the names of the minors involved.

The Courier did report no charges were filed. Legally, AFAIK, the best defense against libel is the truth. If the way the article was worded made it clear that these were allegations and who made the allegations, Whiteside might have a big problem winning his lawsuit.

I do agree that the girl waited too long to report this, and that is probably why no charges were filed. It would be hard to prove in a cirminal court her story, particulary when she willingly drank alcohol. I do not know if the drug ecstasy produces the memory loss and the physical helpessness shown by the allegations. However I do understand that for a lot of teenagers, they do not realize when they have been sexually violated and that it is in fact a serious crime. If the allegation was a rumor gone out of control and in fact Whiteside did nothing of the sort, then his libel claim would have merit.

I will say,though that the Courier rarely actually disseminates rumor and innuendo as factual news. Admiitedly some of their coverage in non- Russellville areas is pretty sparse and overall their reporting is not daring. Considering the wages they pay their journalists, they probably are not encouraging agreesive reporting coerage.

Moe
l

[FKfanMoe]

I am starting to get the impression that instead of being furiously mad at their kid for having a party at their house which likely IMO included underage drinking at the very least AND ended up in the local paper, the Whitesides are lashing out at the people who reported on it instead. Legally, they may have a good case for all I know, particularly if the "no press" claim is accurate. I think if I ever had a kid that acted so irresponsibly in my home, I'd ask them what they would've expected to happen under the circumstances and thank my lucky stars nothing worse occurred.

I think if I were Ryan Whiteside I would be over my friendship with Kevin Jones by now. Just look at all the trouble it has brought him. IMO Kevin intentionally dragged him into a murder investigation to cover Kevin's rear end. IMO this party incident would never have been in the news if Kevin weren't there. I wonder what the dynamics of their friendship is like if he is still willing to be Kevin's friend. Originally when I read about what took place, with Kevin insisting on Ryan going to Nona's door, etc. and Ryan saying that would be weird IIRC, I wondered if Kevin were trying to set Ryan up or something. I wondered if the condom wrapper was Ryan's and maybe Kevin knew where to find it. But that is probably just sheer lunacy on my part.

I couldn't go back and read the original article, but IIRC, the articles reported what was ALLEGED in the police report and didn't report the supposed occurrences as fact. They also reported later that no charges were filed. Plus, when you are hanging out with an accused murderer and IMO probably engaging in at least some illegal activity, how much damage is this going to do to your reputation anyway?

All my opinion only.



Hawgus, you made a number of good points. The allegation about Whiteside may not have been published if it wasn't for his connection to KJ. As for the condom wrapper, correct me if I am wrong but didn't Kevin's parents own a gas station and a diner? Obtaining a condom wrapper to plant as a red herring may have been easy for Kevin.

Here's one of my problems about the condom wrapper. If Kevin intended to implicate Whiteside in this, presumably he would have made sure some of Ryan's DNA would have been on the wrapper. And why only a wrapper not the condom? Alse such planning would imply premeditation, and franly IMO this murder was out of rage or something went out of control, not planned. But then I am assuming that Kevin is a criminal genius.....

An empty condom wrapper at a murder scene may mean something or it may mean nothing at all. Here's an example. Let's say a person who has an interest in the occult/ New Age has books on Wicca at his home and he is mudered by some drug dealers while filming their activities. Would the investgators then base their investigation partly on his books on Wicca , which is to some a " strange cult"? Would they have a bias against proper investigation if the victim was not what they approve of? In this case the victim's interest in Wicca has NOTHING to do with the actual murder. If Nona's body did not show signs of sexual activity ( willing or otheriwse), then the condom wrapper may not be important to the actual murder.

Moe

Moe

[lemoncello]

Hi lemon! Missed ya. You're probably right, IMO.:cool:

been busy like everybody else
i guess ...:)
about the courier's coverage...
i have friends in the news biz
in little rock so i a biased...
but if you have a copy of the
print edition you'll notice
the paper has only 2 reporters...
to cover r'ville and all of pope
county...
i imagine they are spread pretty
thin as it is....
and from what i understand
real investigative reporting
takes a lot of time and
beating ondoors...
there simply may not be the
resources...
the reporter who wrote
the alleged rape stories
is also fairly new...
her bio was in sunday's paper
in the biz section...
georgetwon grad, worked at
the arkansas times...
so we ma see more later...

[FDInLaw]

Am I NOT being clear in my posts?

First off, I said it was a POSSIBILITY. I am NOT saying that is what happened.
Secondy Eliz Ward was mentioned in one post and I responded. I DID NOT CONNECT HER TO THIS DAMN MURDER.

AM I MAKING MYSELF CLEAR TO YOU???

I threw in the duo murderers scenario because there are a few things about this case that hint that is a possiblity. The two means of attacking Nona, for example.

The Elixzabeth Ward topic is only because she was from ATU and the claim she had sex with Bill Clinton.

Now then, you gonna try to misread THAT now?
:flamemad: :mad:

Moe
Hey Moe,

It's not my impression that Loretta was trying to be unkind here. No need to get so huffy IMO. Thank you for clarifying your previous post though, for the most part we are all strangers here and we all need to take that into consideration ~ we don't always follow each other's strains of thought.

You have some great input and I enjoyed reading all your new posts this morning. ~ FD

:seeya:

[FDInLaw]

>SNIP<

An empty condom wrapper at a murder scene may mean something or it may mean nothing at all. Here's an example. Let's say a person who has an interest in the occult/ New Age has books on Wicca at his home and he is mudered by some drug dealers while filming their activities. Would the investgators then base their investigation partly on his books on Wicca , which is to some a " strange cult"? Would they have a bias against proper investigation if the victim was not what they approve of? In this case the victim's interest in Wicca has NOTHING to do with the actual murder. If Nona's body did not show signs of sexual activity ( willing or otheriwse), then the condom wrapper may not be important to the actual murder.

Moe

Moe

The condom wrapper is something that has caused me a lot of thought. I agree with your argument that it may have nothing to do with Nona's Murder. . . however, I believe it is probably linked somehow. The fact that there are no clear fingerprints on it (to our knowledge) is very suspicious to me. If it were merely just there and had nothing to do with all this WHY IS IT CLEAN OF PRINTS??? In my mind, a condom wrapper is the perfect surface to find prints on. My stubborn brain has probably just hit a silly hurdle here, but it really bothers me. Sure, the defense team specialist found some DNA on the wrapper. We will have to wait for the trial to find out what quality of sample it was. This is why it's good there is no possibility I'll be on the jury. . . I'm one of those annoying folks that gets caught up on little details!

:biggrin:

[JR2007]

In the aledged rape case, I think the paper didn't print the victims name because it was a rape case, not because she was too young. She (JR) is 18 or possibly 19 years old.

Some one told me, (who know's all parties involved) that she only yelled rape after her mom found out info about the party and what was going on there. (just Rumor though).

Also the placing of the condom wrapper doesn't necessarily imply premeditation, if it was placed there after the fact or even on the discovery of the body.
JMO.

[FDInLaw]

I've been reading a while.
I'd just like to say I think tho whole
Lot of you are a bunch of fruitcakes!!!
Who do you think you are poking around
Pople's lives as if think you know everything
That is going on.
You are just a bunch of idiot armchair detectives!
This whole forum is a bunch of hockey and should
Be removed from this site. None of you have very
Informative, insightful anything to add to the sight.
It's more like a bunch of children arguing.
Anyone closely related to someone in this case should
Be ahamed of themselves for posting such things
Here. Have you even a thought of what you are putting
Your family through, dragging it out and obbsessing over
This every day? IMO, you are the worst of them all. You
all need to take a mental check. Gee, why have you read the site for awhile then? It seems like a waste of your time.
:cool:

[FDInLaw]

I must say even worthless soap operas are interesting and keep my curiosity peaked, fruitby.:lol: Are you sure you are posting in the right place? The Pageant board might be more your speed.

[FDInLaw]

Good grief. . . is there a daycare that's missing a kid??? I'm done with Sassy Pants.

On topic, JR, you are right about the condom wrapper. . . that's why it is driving me nuts. It could have just been there OR it could have been planted or even the thing that set the murderer off. Who knows?!

[FDInLaw]

Just noticed your location. Quite frankly, I don't care where you are from but I would love to tell you where to go!

:lol: :beer:

Laughing my buns off!

[FDInLaw]

No new Amber Alerts but there is one out there for a Looney Lookout! Seems one escaped from the asylum. Oh my, I think we found him!!!

On Topic, I'm still thinking the condom was a planted to throw LE off, JMHO.

The condom wrapper as motive also has me wondering. . . what if Kevin found it upstairs and brought it downstairs to confront Nona? There are numerous possible scenarios.

[Amy]

To the best of my knowlege, the request for no press is simply that; a request by any of the involved parties for any number of reasons for the information to not be published. It is not mandated; therefore, it really means nothing. Please someone, correct me if I'm wrong.

I stated in the other thread that I think that the community has every right to know that an important witness in an upcoming case has serious allegations/possible charges pending, especially if he's a sheep in a wolf's clothing. (It's bad enough that a murderer walks the streets whether it's KJ or not.) The Whitesides should count their blessings that Ryan wasn't charged and move on, since they too weren't charged with allowing the party where alcohol was provided to the underage drinker. Don't really know if the parents are behind the lawsuit, but it looks bad to me that they are so honked off as to support a legal action against the paper.

Anything and everything these days can turn into a lawsuit, it seems.

The "no press" thing is kinda wierd (wonder if it is something used pretty much everywhere?) It seems there would be some kind of a disclaimer to those who request it that, it really doesn't mean the information won't be used in a news article. Then, why even have it there?

I don't know if Whiteside's parents are behind this, or it is just the kid--but as has been pointed out, especially that parents should be relieved that they are not being charged with the underage drinking at their home. THAT seems to have been an actual fact, not a vicious rumor.

[FDInLaw]

Good one fruitcake! You put a lot of thought into that one! And, ouch!!! You really put me in my place!:lol: :lol: :lol: You're procrastinating doing your homework again, aren't you? I know it's upsetting for you read what's on the internet these days. . . try not to take things so personal. ~ FD

[Amy]

Actually most reporters have guidelines set by the eidtor or publisher as to what they can or should not disclose in their articles. In this case, if Whiteside was legally an adult and the police report was available to the public, then the paper can publish what was in the report and the name of the accused. Since the female that was " allegedly sexually assaulted" was underage, her name would not be published. The recent claim of sexual assault in a school bus story, for example did not publish the names of the minors involved.

The Courier did report no charges were filed. Legally, AFAIK, the best defense against libel is the truth. If the way the article was worded made it clear that these were allegations and who made the allegations, Whiteside might have a big problem winning his lawsuit.

I do agree that the girl waited too long to report this, and that is probably why no charges were filed. It would be hard to prove in a cirminal court her story, particulary when she willingly drank alcohol. I do not know if the drug ecstasy produces the memory loss and the physical helpessness shown by the allegations. However I do understand that for a lot of teenagers, they do not realize when they have been sexually violated and that it is in fact a serious crime. If the allegation was a rumor gone out of control and in fact Whiteside did nothing of the sort, then his libel claim would have merit.

I will say,though that the Courier rarely actually disseminates rumor and innuendo as factual news. Admiitedly some of their coverage in non- Russellville areas is pretty sparse and overall their reporting is not daring. Considering the wages they pay their journalists, they probably are not encouraging agreesive reporting coerage.

Moe
l


Thanks for the info about reporting. That was pretty much what I understand, that the paper/editor pretty much knows the legal ground.

About the part that it might be rumor gone out of control--I would think that, any lawsuit would then have to be against the reporting party? Not LE, because they put it in their blotter, and not the paper, as they just "report" what is on the blotter?

Will be interesting to see how it all goes down, either way.

That is a problem when alcohol and drugs are involved. It's hard to prove much of anything if the "victim" is too blotto to know what she did or did not say, and if the 'perp' is too blotto to know whether or not the victim asked him to stop. And, if the observers are too blotto to remember who did what.

[Results]

Don't feed the trolls and they will go away. Just remember it is all about attention. Justice for NONA :rose:

[Amy]

Hawgus, you made a number of good points. The allegation about Whiteside may not have been published if it wasn't for his connection to KJ. As for the condom wrapper, correct me if I am wrong but didn't Kevin's parents own a gas station and a diner? Obtaining a condom wrapper to plant as a red herring may have been easy for Kevin.

Here's one of my problems about the condom wrapper. If Kevin intended to implicate Whiteside in this, presumably he would have made sure some of Ryan's DNA would have been on the wrapper. And why only a wrapper not the condom? Alse such planning would imply premeditation, and franly IMO this murder was out of rage or something went out of control, not planned. But then I am assuming that Kevin is a criminal genius.....

An empty condom wrapper at a murder scene may mean something or it may mean nothing at all. Here's an example. Let's say a person who has an interest in the occult/ New Age has books on Wicca at his home and he is mudered by some drug dealers while filming their activities. Would the investgators then base their investigation partly on his books on Wicca , which is to some a " strange cult"? Would they have a bias against proper investigation if the victim was not what they approve of? In this case the victim's interest in Wicca has NOTHING to do with the actual murder. If Nona's body did not show signs of sexual activity ( willing or otheriwse), then the condom wrapper may not be important to the actual murder.

Moe

Moe


I would agree that, if there is no sexual activity, the condom wrapper is just that, a condom wrapper. It woud be interesting to know who put it there and why, tho. Was it to confuse the issue, try to lead the investigation off track? Maybe, that is why the prosecution didn't include the wrapper in their suit--because it has nothing to do with anything? And, now the defense wants to muddy the waters with it? (If I recall, it was the defense who brought this to the forefront?)

[JR2007]

Someone must have gotten their toes stepped one. I apologize for anything that I might have said that hurt anyone feelings. This board is here to help the victims not hurt their families. In some cases the people (kids) are the ones that need to remember their families before they do some of the things they do. These boards have helped spur LE to do their jobs when things get slow and may even give LE new Ideas or something they haven't thought about. If I were family I wouldn't read these boards if they upset me.

JMO

[Amy]

I've been reading a while.
I'd just like to say I think tho whole
Lot of you are a bunch of fruitcakes!!!
Who do you think you are poking around
Pople's lives as if think you know everything
That is going on.
You are just a bunch of idiot armchair detectives!
This whole forum is a bunch of hockey and should
Be removed from this site. None of you have very
Informative, insightful anything to add to the sight.
It's more like a bunch of children arguing.
Anyone closely related to someone in this case should
Be ahamed of themselves for posting such things
Here. Have you even a thought of what you are putting
Your family through, dragging it out and obbsessing over
This every day? IMO, you are the worst of them all. You
all need to take a mental check.


That's the whole purpose of these message boards. People trying to figure out what went on, who was involved, who wasn't involved, etc. If facts about murder and speculation about the perps bother you, perhaps these forums aren't for you. Information from people from the immediate area of a crime is most welcome, whether it be what is reported in the local papers, what they hear from the local folk, what the local police are doing that doesn't make the papers.

The families don't have to be reading such forums. I would think, if it were my family involved, this is the last place I would be. Well, I might be curious enough to want to know people who post on these boards think. Heck, maybe I would find some piece of info that would be helpful to the investigation--I could ask the LE (or my attorney/investigator) if they had followed certain leads, if they had tho't of looking at this or that--or maybe even direct them to the message boards for ideas!!!

[FDInLaw]

IIRC, it was mentioned in the PCS and stating something to the effect it was the officer's feeling it was left there to distract. Can't remember the exact words but stand to be corrected. JMHO.
From the PCS;

"During the processing of the crime scene, Affiant found a condom wrapper on a kitchen counter next to the living room. An extensive search was made for a condom, including the removal of the toilets in both bathrooms. No condom was found. The medical examiner in his report of the 16th of March, 2006, found no evidence of injury of any type to the external genitalia, vaginal introitus, or vaginal canal and stated to affiant that there was no evidence of sexual assault or trauma. Affiant knows from his training and experience that rape/murders are very rare. In 2004, there were 14,121 murders committed in the United States, and of those victims, only 36 were raped. Based on his training and experience and consultation with the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit, it is Affiant’s belief that the condom wrapper was placed on the counter to make it appear as if rape was the motive for the attack."

[Amy]

Good grief. . . is there a daycare that's missing a kid??? I'm done with Sassy Pants.

On topic, JR, you are right about the condom wrapper. . . that's why it is driving me nuts. It could have just been there OR it could have been planted or even the thing that set the murderer off. Who knows?!

It seems the iggy button is not as easily accessible in on this board as it is the other!!!! I do think I found it, tho.
;)

[Results]

Just click on its nic, view public profile and click on put on ignore. Then poof, assy's gone!!!

Like magic! :beer:

[FDInLaw]

Just click on its nic, view public profile and click on put on ignore. Then poof, assy's gone!!!

"assy"

:lol: I just spit ice cream all over my monitor!

Now folks, I think you will find that Sassy will get bored, it's not like she is at liberty to talk about the case. Just my hunch. ;)

[FDInLaw]

[QUOTE=FDInLaw;8811977]"assy"

it's not like she is at liberty to talk about the case. Just my hunch. ;)[/


Why do you think that?
It's merely a feeling. . . you know me, I one of the most pathetic arm chair detectives here!
:)

[FDInLaw]

what happened to our new friend? I for one would like to know if Sassy will actually discuss the case. Trolls are mythological creatures for the most part. . . if someone is worked up enough to flame everyone in their path it's usually for a reason. So, tell us Sassy, how are you linked to what's going on?

[FDInLaw]

Professor found dead on campus

http://www.couriernews.com/story.php?ID=13752

[hawgustusgloop]

I've been reading a while.

This whole forum is a bunch of hockey and should
Be removed from this site.

I went to the American Airlines Center and watched the Dallas Stars get beaten badly by the Columbus Bluejackets. That was hockey. If I were you, I would quit wasting time on this board and run, don't walk, to your nearest bookstore and invest in a nice dictionary before you describe something like this as "hockey" in the future!

[FDInLaw]

I went to the American Airlines Center and watched the Dallas Stars get beaten badly by the Columbus Bluejackets. That was hockey. If I were you, I would quit wasting time on this board and run, don't walk, to your nearest bookstore and invest in a nice dictionary before you describe something like this as "hockey" in the future!

:lol: It's good to see you my friend! :seeya:

[FDInLaw]

:lol: :tongue: :seeya: Ask me anything you want to know. Maybe I'll tell ya, maybe I won't. Linked? What gives you that idea?
We both know you are not going to answer the questions I would ask. I would like to know your take on the whole murder thing since, as you put it, what's been posted here is just a bunch of "hockey."
Let me guess, Kevin didn't do it. . . he was framed. . . yadda, yadda, yadda.

[FDInLaw]

That's hockey as in bull hockey. You so scary! Please don't tawk to me that way...... Whatever floats your boat. . . how old are you anyhow?

[FDInLaw]

I dare you, I ABSOLUTELY DARE YOU. Ask me, come on, ask me. Why not start by answering the question I did ask you?

[FDInLaw]

I thought you iggied me..........:lol: :lol: Can't resist can you?:punch: You're right. . . this is just too much fun. It's another round of "Name That Troll."

[FDInLaw]

PM me if you care..... Now why would I do that? I'm only interested in knowing what you will say publicly.

[hawgustusgloop]

I see only 2 possibilites here:

1. sassy21@heart is connected to the people involved in Nona's murder investigation and is here offering no real discussion, just poorly-crafed insults because he/she doesn't like what everyone else is saying.

OR

2. sassy21@heart is a person with absolutely nothing better to do than jump on a message board and hurl poorly-crafted insults at people for no apparent reason.

Either way, IMO his/her nickname is horrendous and sounds like a totally desperate old lady on a personals site. I am not interested in the least about what he/she thinks about this case. And why show up now? Did he/she just happen to find out about this site, or is this related to what we have been saying recently about the Whiteside lawsuit?

[FDInLaw]

Stop sitting on your duff and tell us what you think about the case! Cat got your tongue?

[FDInLaw]

Getting excited there fdinlaw? What would you like to know? I keep asking you.... I need specifics. No you don't. . . give us ANYTHING. What's your opinion of the investigation in general?

[FDInLaw]

[QUOTE=Merrick;8812195]S.S. = Stupid Sassy, want to try againQUOTE]

:lol: No, it's Sexxxyyy Sassy....Want some? Alright, sicko. . . enough is enough. In case you haven't figured it out, a young lady lost her life and that is what most of the conversation here revolves around. Have fun talking to yourself.

:flamemad:

[al38]

Guys, I know you all have figured this out, but I really don't think Sassy is playing with a full deck. Or else she has had too much meth today. You aren't one of my Dover neighbors are you?

[FDInLaw]

Guys, I know you all have figured this out, but I really don't think Sassy is playing with a full deck. Or else she has had too much meth today. You aren't one of my Dover neighbors are you? My friend, don't even get me started about Dover. :)

[hawgustusgloop]

[QUOTE=sassy&21@heart;8812200

:lol: :lol: :lol: No, it's Sexxxyyy Sassy....Want some?[/QUOTE]


sassy21@heart still thinks he/she is on the personals site. Hideously desperate pick-up line, by the way.

I wonder if it isn't a cat that has sassy21@heart's tongue, but maybe a gag order instead?

[FDInLaw]

sassy21@heart still thinks he/she is on the personals site. Hideously desperate pick-up line, by the way.

I wonder if it isn't a cat that has sassy21@heart's tongue, but maybe a gag order instead?
Great minds think alike! ;)

[optimumprimal78]

Full deck, full deck.
It's as evident as my pecks.
Sexy, sexy, six pack pecks.

Somehow, I doubt that you have six pack abs

[al38]

Full deck, full deck.
It's as evident as my pecks.
Sexy, sexy, six pack pecks.

What a brilliant mind you are playing with. God if I could only be so freaking brilliant. Go play somewhere else little puppy- like in the road go chase some cars or something

[hawgustusgloop]

Somehow, I doubt that you have six pack abs


Well, silly optimumprimal78, sassy21@heart doesn't claim to have 6-pack abs like a normal weirdo posting insults on a message board would......he/she is claiming to have 6-pack PECTORAL muscles. So, it will be easy to figure out his/her true identity. All we have to do is look for the freak of nature with a 6-pack on his/her chest!

By the way, I totally agree with you in your doubt that he/she has 6-pack abs, too.

[al38]

Good Riddance!!!

[FDInLaw]

What a brilliant mind you are playing with. God if I could only be so freaking brilliant. Go play somewhere else little puppy- like in the road go chase some cars or something

Well, silly optimumprimal78, sassy21@heart doesn't claim to have 6-pack abs like a normal weirdo posting insults on a message board would......he/she is claiming to have 6-pack PECTORAL muscles. So, it will be easy to figure out his/her true identity. All we have to do is look for the freak of nature with a 6-pack on his/her chest!

By the way, I totally agree with you in your doubt that he/she has 6-pack abs, too.

:lol: You guys are killing me! LOL!

[optimumprimal78]

So, you wanna play my games, too? kissy kissy miss prissy Y'all are so much more fun than I first thought....:hat: :lol: :beer: I gotta go for today, but I bet I'll see ya later!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah I do. And I really don't care if it is pectorial or abs or whatever we have a pretty good idea who you are and if you are that person then you need to lay off the bad mouthing people. Lord knows what we could say about you.

[jonikay]

There was a big write up in the atkins chronicle today, the "sister paper" of the dover times. It was written by Van Tyson. The suit is against neal ronquist, publisher, Scott Perkins, editor, and and our friend, janie ginocchio, reporter. the suit was filed by ryan whiteside, of course. it summarizes the basis for the suit as A) PUBLISHING STORY BEFORE POLICE HAD COMPLETED PRELIM INVESTIGATION (sorry about the caps lock) b) publishing police reoprt marked "no press" c) publishing story before charges were filed. d) failing to interview source of hearsay in report e) failing to contact plaintiff for a statement f) reporting statements as facts without clearly identifying them as allegations and twisting facts to imply greater involvement and culpability of plaintiff in criminal activity... when contacted by dover times and the chronicle, the courier's publisher had "no comment" about the case, of course. OK, call me green, but what does "no press" mean? does it mean that it the LE person that filled it out didn't sign it, so it was essentially fake? The suit is seeking to recover "actual and exemplary or punitive damages for substantial and irreparable injury to the plaintiff" This may have all been mentioned in the gazzette, but I don't get that paper.

[hawgustusgloop]

There was a big write up in the atkins chronicle today, the "sister paper" of the dover times. It was written by Van Tyson. The suit is against neal ronquist, publisher, Scott Perkins, editor, and and our friend, janie ginocchio, reporter. the suit was filed by ryan whiteside, of course. it summarizes the basis for the suit as A) PUBLISHING STORY BEFORE POLICE HAD COMPLETED PRELIM INVESTIGATION (sorry about the caps lock) b) publishing police reoprt marked "no press" c) publishing story before charges were filed. d) failing to interview source of hearsay in report e) failing to contact plaintiff for a statement f) reporting statements as facts without clearly identifying them as allegations and twisting facts to imply greater involvement and culpability of plaintiff in criminal activity... when contacted by dover times and the chronicle, the courier's publisher had "no comment" about the case, of course. OK, call me green, but what does "no press" mean? does it mean that it the LE person that filled it out didn't sign it, so it was essentially fake? The suit is seeking to recover "actual and exemplary or punitive damages for substantial and irreparable injury to the plaintiff" This may have all been mentioned in the gazzette, but I don't get that paper.

Thank you for posting this. I think it will all come down to whether or not the paper actually "twisted the facts" to imply that Ryan Whiteside had GREATER involvement and culpability in criminal activity. That wording alone makes me think that instead of filing lawsuits, Ryan Whiteside should be busy thanking his lucky stars he didn't end up arrested. And I personally would LOVE to know how Whiteside's attorneys are going to demonstrate "substantial and irreparable injury."

[hawgustusgloop]

I don't think it would be very easy to open a condom (even if you opened it with your teeth or something) without leaving at least a partial fingerprint. I think that is why the police believed it was planted as evidence to throw off the police. There weren't any prints. If someone had used it in the course of normal sexual activity, it would have had fingerprints of some type, I would think. The only logical explanation is that someone either wiped the wrapper clean or took it out of the package and opened it while wearing gloves or something.

There was no evidence that Nona had been sexually assaulted. If someone did rape her without leaving physical evidence of trauma and did use that condom, why would he wipe the prints off instead of grabbing the wrapper and tossing it in the garbage down the road?

I don't feel like this was a premeditated crime at all. And I believe based on the thoughts above that the condom wrapper was probably planted. It makes more sense that the murderer either had it with him or found it in the apartment, but who knows? One of the things I have wondered all along is this: If he is guilty, did Kevin leave Nona's apartment and then COME BACK, or did he do whatever covering up he would've done and then leave? How far exactly did Kevin live from Nona in minutes? Was there enough time to return? Could someone else have helped him?

Another possibility as a wise person mentioned earlier is that maybe Kevin planted the condom wrapper upon the "discovery" of Nona's body. Picture them going in to see a brutal murder scene.....would Ryan or Kevin's mom necessarily notice him placing something on a counter? In that situation, he wouldn't have to have returned to plant the wrapper.

[hawgustusgloop]

The condom wrapper as motive also has me wondering. . . what if Kevin found it upstairs and brought it downstairs to confront Nona? There are numerous possible scenarios.

This is also an intriguing thought.....it sounds pretty reasonable to me. Maybe Kevin was at Nona's apartment and she was busy taking a shower or something. And then we'll say Kevin is nosing around a bit because he suspects Nona may be seeing someone better than him. Let's say he finds the wrapper and knows it isn't his. Let's also assume that the person who used it opened it with his teeth and left some DNA on it, which would have just been a lucky break for Kevin. Let's say then that Kevin murders Nona in a fit of rage, wipes his prints off the wrapper, and places it on the counter to make it look like rape was the motive. In that scenario, the condom would have been used at least a reasonable amount of time beforehand and flushed because there was no condom found even when the police removed the toilets.

I am personally torn between what I theorize may have set Kevin off if he is Nona's killer. Would it have been the condom wrapper? What about the mysterious text message that was opened but never responded to? IIRC the police seem to think she was murdered soon after that text message, and they know more than we do. So, perhaps the text message was something that would obviously make him mad? Maybe it was something else we'll never know about?

[hawgustusgloop]

I think it will all come out at the trial. I think that both Nona and Kevin were growing apart and seeing other people. I hate to sound petty but Kevin isn't the greatest looking guy in the world and Nona was beautiful. I image she had a lot of guys interested in her not only because she was physically beautiful but because she was a wonderful person. KJ, on the other hand, eh, not much. If Nona was seeing someone else, so what, she was young and moving ahead in life. I just can't imagine someone like her leaving a condom wrapper around where KJ might find it. That just not seem plausible to me. I think this unidentified DNA, if that is a fact, will be used to cast reasonable doubt. But, I also think a bright prosecutor could turn it right back on KJ. JMHO.

I don't think she would leave a condom wrapper lying around either. And I definitely don't think she would leave it on the kitchen counter where anyone dropping by would see it. If Kevin did find it at her place, I would think it would probably be the result of him snooping or something, like looking down in a small trash can or something while Nona was distracted.

I too think Nona was moving on. She was blossoming in college, and IMO Kevin's life probably peaked in high school. I have also wondered if there was any reason to believe he had been abusive to her in the past.

[FDInLaw]

"Here’s a link.



http://www.atkinschronicle.com/02-07anews3.htm



My take on the case summaries, which you can feel free to post verbatim. . . :



(a.) publishing the story before the police had completed their preliminary investigation



This does irk me, but considering that it’s from a public database and the involvement of characters in a high profile case in the area, it’s not surprising. You can’t be sued for publishing a story about a crime before the police finishes a preliminary investigation, or about every high profile crime in the country could probably be sued just for reporting some piece of news.



(b.) publishing a police report that had been marked "no press;"



Big deal. Police reports are public documents, and the statement “no press” doesn’t mean anything. You can’t put up a billboard with the phrase “don’t look at this!” and then sue people for looking. The analogy isn’t perfect, but it’s the same principle.



(c.) publishing the story before charges had been filed



Another worthless claim. It’s not illegal for a journalist to report something like this just because charges haven’t been filed. Like summary (a.), thousands of journalists and newspapers would be sued every day if this was right.



(d.) failing to interview the source of the hearsay in the Report



Bad or sloppy journalism can lead to illegal actions, but this isn’t one of them.



(e.) failing to contact Plaintiff for a statement



Same as above.



(f.) reporting statements as facts without clearly identifying them as allegations and twisting facts to imply greater involvement and culpability of Plaintiff in criminal activity.



I don’t have the original articles near me, but I’d be very surprised if I’m incorrectly recalling the use of the word “alleged” many times. I doubt Perkins is that much of an idiot to let something like this article slip by without it, no matter how I feel about the Courier. "

[lemoncello]

"Here’s a link.

<snip>
I don’t have the original articles near me, but I’d be very surprised if I’m incorrectly recalling the use of the word “alleged” many times. I doubt Perkins is that much of an idiot to let something like this article slip by without it, no matter how I feel about the Courier. "

because i'm feeling
really persnickety...
lets do the math shall we...
story #1 on alleged rape...
total number of sentences ... 26
number of sentences describing
what was supposed to have happened
during the alleged rape...10
number of times "alleged" is used...8
number of times "allegedly" is used...6
number of times some form of
"according to... (report, statement, police, etc.)...11
that means in those 10 sentences
some form of the above or combination
was used every time...
if its not clear the story
was talking about allegations...
and sourcing exclusively
from the police report
or complainant's statement...
then people need to go
back to elementary school...

[FDInLaw]

because i'm feeling
really persnickety...
lets do the math shall we...
story #1 on alleged rape...
total number of sentences ... 26
number of sentences describing
what was supposed to have happened
during the alleged rape...10
number of times "alleged" is used...8
number of times "allegedly" is used...6
number of times some form of
"according to... (report, statement, police, etc.)...11
that means in those 10 sentences
some form of the above or combination
was used every time...
if its not clear the story
was talking about allegations...
and sourcing exclusively
from the police report
or complainant's statement...
then people need to go
back to elementary school... Can I just say. . . you rock! :) Great post.

[lemoncello]

while im at it...
from the arkansas
freedom of information act...
25-19-102. Legislative intent.It is vital in a democratic society that public business be performed in anopen and public manner so that the electors shall be advised of theperformance of public officials and of the decisions that are reached inpublic activity and in making public policy. Toward this end, this chapter isadopted, making it possible for them or their representatives to learn and toreport fully the activities of their public officials.
(5)(A) "Public records" means writings, recorded sounds, films, tapes,electronic or computer-based information, or data compilations in anymedium required by law to be kept or otherwise kept and that constitute arecord of the performance or lack of performance of official functions thatare or should be carried out by a public official or employee, agovernmental agency, or any other agency wholly or partially supported bypublic funds or expending public funds. All records maintained in publicoffices or by public employees within the scope of their employment shallbe presumed to be public records.
25-19-105. Examination and copying of public records.(a)(1)(A) Except as otherwise specifically provided by this section or bylaws specifically enacted to provide otherwise, all public records shall beopen to inspection and copying by any citizen of the State of Arkansasduring the regular business hours of the custodian of the records.

[JR2007]

I was just read an article at KATV TV dated Jan. 9, 07. It states that the DNA on the condom was Male but not KJ. And that her computer was logged on to and a photo of another pageant contestant was accessed hours after her death.
Could this be a return trip to the scene? Then you have to wonder if the keys on her computer had been wiped clean of prints.

[lemoncello]

Can I just say. . . you rock! :) Great post.

aw shucks...
:o

[JR2007]

Personally I would love to see what the procecutor has in the pictures taken by the Arvest Bank. It would be the most logical path traveled by either Nona or kj if going to or from home and school or Dover.

[JR2007]

here is the link to Katv.

http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0107/386919.html

[FDInLaw]

I was just read an article at KATV TV dated Jan. 9, 07. It states that the DNA on the condom was Male but not KJ. And that her computer was logged on to and a photo of another pageant contestant was accessed hours after her death.
Could this be a return trip to the scene? Then you have to wonder if the keys on her computer had been wiped clean of prints.

With the coroner placing death between 10:00am and noon, a return trip might be plausible. Maybe Nona's computer was accessed in an attempt to throw the time of death? It would be interesting to know if there were definite fingerprints on the keyboard. :cool:

[JR2007]

It would be interesting to know if Nona had a password protect on her computer, and if so only those who knew her password could log on, Or I guess you could log on as guest. Humm

[lorettalockhorn]

Am I NOT being clear in my posts?

First off, I said it was a POSSIBILITY. I am NOT saying that is what happened.
Secondy Eliz Ward was mentioned in one post and I responded. I DID NOT CONNECT HER TO THIS DAMN MURDER.

AM I MAKING MYSELF CLEAR TO YOU???

I threw in the duo murderers scenario because there are a few things about this case that hint that is a possiblity. The two means of attacking Nona, for example.

The Elixzabeth Ward topic is only because she was from ATU and the claim she had sex with Bill Clinton.

Now then, you gonna try to misread THAT now?
:flamemad: :mad:

Moe

Gee, I'm sorry that I honked you off. I am not trying to misread anything. Simply trying to piece together what seemed to be a non-sequitur. I will try my best not to flip you out again. Sorry.

As for there being two murderers, I heard quite a while back that there were rumors that two killers might be involved. Since you brought it up first, I had no idea that you would get POed at my asking. Sorry.

No need to shout. Honestly, when I ask a question around here, I'm just usually wondering what other folks are thinking. You know, exchange of ideas and all. Peace.

[JR2007]

I don't have a password protect on my computer because I'm the only one who used it. Maybe, since she was living alone, Nona didn't see the need for that. JMHO.
you are probably right. I don't have one on my home computer either.

Can you believe that there has been better than 3 pages of post filled today. That must be close to a record. Ha

[lorettalockhorn]

I've been reading a while.
I'd just like to say I think tho whole
Lot of you are a bunch of fruitcakes!!!
Who do you think you are poking around
Pople's lives as if think you know everything
That is going on.
You are just a bunch of idiot armchair detectives!
This whole forum is a bunch of hockey and should
Be removed from this site. None of you have very
Informative, insightful anything to add to the sight.
It's more like a bunch of children arguing.
Anyone closely related to someone in this case should
Be ahamed of themselves for posting such things
Here. Have you even a thought of what you are putting
Your family through, dragging it out and obbsessing over
This every day? IMO, you are the worst of them all. You
all need to take a mental check.

LMAO And you, my friend need spell check!!

[lorettalockhorn]

Anything and everything these days can turn into a lawsuit, it seems.

The "no press" thing is kinda wierd (wonder if it is something used pretty much everywhere?) It seems there would be some kind of a disclaimer to those who request it that, it really doesn't mean the information won't be used in a news article. Then, why even have it there?

I don't know if Whiteside's parents are behind this, or it is just the kid--but as has been pointed out, especially that parents should be relieved that they are not being charged with the underage drinking at their home. THAT seems to have been an actual fact, not a vicious rumor.

If Janie comes back around, we could ask her; maybe someone (who doesn't call The Courier three or four times a week to complain about their lame paper carrier) should phone them or RPD and ask for clarification?

I'm wondering how a pizza delivery boy affords an attorney for this kind of lawsuit? Contingency maybe?

[lorettalockhorn]

I hear they're big tippers out there:rolleyes: :lol:

Guys, there are really some good posts in here today re: the condom wrapper; it's always bugged me that it was found in the kitchen. I've also wondered about the (greeting) card and who it was from. And that Nona was nude really rankles me; were her clothes laid out as though she was bathing or changing?

I hadn't read about the computer being accessed before, that should be interesting.

[lemoncello]

please bare with me...
this is the last ill say
about the lawsuit...
i promise...
but loking at both
the d-g article and the
atkins paperarticle about it...
i'm struck by some similarities...
(a.) publishing the story before the police had completed their preliminary investigation
they both
published a story
before the defense
filed their answers in response...
so before a judge would
have information to
complete an "investigation"
into whether the suit had
merit...

(c.) publishing the story before charges had been filed
wouldnt that be the same as
publishing a story about
a civil case before
there was a judgement...
so what rw claims
the paper did is all
allegation until then...

(d.) failing to interview the source of the hearsay in the Report
neither paper interviewed rw...
the source of the allegations
of wrongdoing...

(e.) failing to contact Plaintiff for a statement
the d-g only contacted perkins...
the chronicle only contacted the
publisher...
no one contacted janie...
there were three people
individually named...
under the claims of the lawsuit...
wouldnt it be prudent to sontact
them all for comment...

hmmm....
seems to me...
the chronicle and
d-g could also be
accused of "negligence"
and "maliciousness" under those
points...
but iguess its ok
since it "defames"
someone other than rw...
just my opinion...

[lorettalockhorn]

please bare with me...
this is the last ill say
about the lawsuit...
i promise...
but loking at both
the d-g article and the
atkins paperarticle about it...
i'm struck by some similarities...
(a.) publishing the story before the police had completed their preliminary investigation
they both
published a story
before the defense
filed their answers in response...
so before a judge would
have information to
complete an "investigation"
into whether the suit had
merit...

(c.) publishing the story before charges had been filed
wouldnt that be the same as
publishing a story about
a civil case before
there was a judgement...
so what rw claims
the paper did is all
allegation until then...

(d.) failing to interview the source of the hearsay in the Report
neither paper interviewed rw...
the source of the allegations
of wrongdoing...

(e.) failing to contact Plaintiff for a statement
the d-g only contacted perkins...
the chronicle only contacted the
publisher...
no one contacted janie...
there were three people
individually named...
under the claims of the lawsuit...
wouldnt it be prudent to sontact
them all for comment...

hmmm....
seems to me...
the chronicle and
d-g could also be
accused of "negligence"
and "maliciousness" under those
points...
but iguess its ok
since it "defames"
someone other than rw...
just my opinion...

Another good post; the Whiteside lawsuit strikes me as "much ado about nothing". Good grief, newspapers all over the world publish stories about allegations every day of the world. And as a subscriber to several papers, I'm glad that they do. RW needs to get real.

[JR2007]

:lol:

Guys, there are really some good posts in here today re: the condom wrapper; it's always bugged me that it was found in the kitchen. I've also wondered about the (greeting) card and who it was from. And that Nona was nude really rankles me; were her clothes laid out as though she was bathing or changing?

I hadn't read about the computer being accessed before, that should be interesting.
Several places on these post people mentioned that the Card was from her mother. I don't know how they know this.

Her being nude really bothers me. No one would come down stairs and answer the door while nude, even if they knew the person. IMO
Maybe for one of us guys that wouldn't be unheard of. Ha!

It will be interesting to find where her clothes were and what condition they were in. Blood splatters or clean and organized.

[FDInLaw]

Just want to share that for the past week or so I have felt really fed up and even bored with Nona's case. Not that I ceased to care but that all chit chat had gotten old and I felt like every possible angle had been discussed. This morning I was delighted to read so many thought provoking posts. I feel invigorated! It's ironic, but it appears that yesterday's adversary served as a catalyst to get all our creative energies going again. Here's to our little "arm chair detective" community!
:beer:
:hat:

[optimumprimal78]

I hear they're big tippers out there:rolleyes:


He can always make money by selling "stuff".

[FDInLaw]

He can always make money by selling "stuff".
Are you suggesting that RW is not a law-abiding citizen?
:rolleyes:

[optimumprimal78]

Are you suggesting that RW is not a law-abiding citizen?
:rolleyes:

I'm just saying there are many things a fine young man like RW can sell: cd's, dvd's, plants, cars, stolen stereos, etc.

[hawgustusgloop]

The fact that someone accessed the other pageant contestant's photo is extremely odd to me. Can anyone think of any scenario under which this makes sense? I don't understand why Nona's killer would risk detection and waste what I assume would be very valuable time by logging onto her computer. Maybe it would make sense if I watched a lot of Law & Order like K.Jo.

From the PCS: At 11:04, Nona received a text message which was apparently opened but not responded to by Nona. At 12:5 8 she received a text-message but it was neither opened nor responded to. Affiant believes that Nona was killed very soon after 11:04. The Medical Examiner stated that the homicide to include all non-lethal wounds could have been completed within a matter of minutes.

The fact that the police believe she was killed very soon after the 11:04 text message was received and opened makes me think it was something that would be very inflammatory to Kevin and may be what set him off. IIRC, Kevin IMO told a big ol' lie and said he was at his parents' gas station by noon, but the person he said he talked to claimed Kevin wasn't there until 1:00 p.m. So, if Nona was indeed killed after that text message and it only took a matter of minutes, Kevin would have less than 2 hours to do whatever he was going to do and show up at the gas station pretending nothing happened. Could he have returned in that time? I can't find any account of Kevin's activities after he arrived at the gas station other than those surrounding the "discovery" of Nona's body. I wonder how long he stayed at the gas station? I had originally assumed he was working a shift there or something, but maybe he was only there for a short time. I will once again have to go back and :read: on that one.

The link posted earlier about Nona's computer said that someone accessed it "hours" after she was murdered. So, I don't think the less-than-2-hour time crunch is as much of an issue as I did before. Maybe Kevin returned much later. What was his alibi for the time in between leaving the gas station and leaving for the Christmas party with his mom? How solid is it?

Whoever was on that computer either killed Nona or knew she was dead and didn't tell anyone.

[FDInLaw]

I'm just saying there are many things a fine young man like RW can sell: cd's, dvd's, plants, cars, stolen stereos, etc.
Could you define "plants."

LOL! :lol:

(Okay, I'm feeling a little goofy this morning!)

[hawgustusgloop]

Are you suggesting that RW is not a law-abiding citizen?
:rolleyes:

That is not nice at all. This poor young man has suffered "substantial and irreparable injury." His pristine reputation crumbled to dust when the newspaper printed lies about him. His lucrative future in the pizza delivery business was shattered by the cruel hammer of the journalist's typewriter. What's worse, he almost got grounded.

[optimumprimal78]

The link posted earlier about Nona's computer said that someone accessed it "hours" after she was murdered. So, I don't think the less-than-2-hour time crunch is as much of an issue as I did before. Maybe Kevin returned much later. What was his alibi for the time in between leaving the gas station and leaving for the Christmas party with his mom? How solid is it?

Whoever was on that computer either killed Nona or knew she was dead and didn't tell anyone.

There are ways to connect the computer to people. If you look at IP addresses of sites searched by someone you can then compare with Nona's computer. If there was any substantial time at a particular place (or searching for something) like the beauty pageant contestant on KJ's computer, then you could see if that person knew exactly where to look.

As far as the accessing, I might be wrong but was the computer not in police custody? If not then why would someone go into a crime scene. The person had to know that something was going on because there was police tape around her apartment. They would be trespassing/tampering with the site if they entered and did anything without the police knowing about it. Again, I might be wrong but I remember there being a lot of police coming and going to the site.

[FDInLaw]

The fact that someone accessed the other pageant contestant's photo is extremely odd to me. Can anyone think of any scenario under which this makes sense? I don't understand why Nona's killer would risk detection and waste what I assume would be very valuable time by logging onto her computer. Maybe it would make sense if I watched a lot of Law & Order like K.Jo.

From the PCS: At 11:04, Nona received a text message which was apparently opened but not responded to by Nona. At 12:5 8 she received a text-message but it was neither opened nor responded to. Affiant believes that Nona was killed very soon after 11:04. The Medical Examiner stated that the homicide to include all non-lethal wounds could have been completed within a matter of minutes.

The fact that the police believe she was killed very soon after the 11:04 text message was received and opened makes me think it was something that would be very inflammatory to Kevin and may be what set him off. IIRC, Kevin IMO told a big ol' lie and said he was at his parents' gas station by noon, but the person he said he talked to claimed Kevin wasn't there until 1:00 p.m. So, if Nona was indeed killed after that text message and it only took a matter of minutes, Kevin would have less than 2 hours to do whatever he was going to do and show up at the gas station pretending nothing happened. Could he have returned in that time? I can't find any account of Kevin's activities after he arrived at the gas station other than those surrounding the "discovery" of Nona's body. I wonder how long he stayed at the gas station? I had originally assumed he was working a shift there or something, but maybe he was only there for a short time. I will once again have to go back and :read: on that one.

The link posted earlier about Nona's computer said that someone accessed it "hours" after she was murdered. So, I don't think the less-than-2-hour time crunch is as much of an issue as I did before. Maybe Kevin returned much later. What was his alibi for the time in between leaving the gas station and leaving for the Christmas party with his mom? How solid is it?

Whoever was on that computer either killed Nona or knew she was dead and didn't tell anyone.
I'm also curious to know the actual time the photo was accessed on the computer. If it was accessed at 1:15 pm, for example, then it could not have been Kevin. You would think though, if this were the case Kevin's defense team would have got the charges against him dropped. JMO

[FDInLaw]

That is not nice at all. This poor young man has suffered "substantial and irreparable injury." His pristine reputation crumbled to dust when the newspaper printed lies about him. His lucrative future in the pizza delivery business was shattered by the cruel hammer of the journalist's typewriter. What's worse, he almost got grounded.

:biggrin: You're right, how heartless can we be? Poor little Rye Rye.

[hawgustusgloop]

There are ways to connect the computer to people. If you look at IP addresses of sites searched by someone you can then compare with Nona's computer. If there was any substantial time at a particular place (or searching for something) like the beauty pageant contestant on KJ's computer, then you could see if that person knew exactly where to look.

As far as the accessing, I might be wrong but was the computer not in police custody? If not then why would someone go into a crime scene. The person had to know that something was going on because there was police tape around her apartment. They would be trespassing/tampering with the site if they entered and did anything without the police knowing about it. Again, I might be wrong but I remember there being a lot of police coming and going to the site.

IIRC, the police believe Nona was murdered a little after 11:00 a.m. The 911 call placed by Kevin's mom saying they found Nona was made sometime around 6:30 p.m., I think. So, there was approximately seven hours between when Nona was likely killed and when the apartment became a known crime scene. I took the article to mean that someone was on her computer sometime in the late afternoon/early evening before Kevin, his mom, and Ryan Whiteside "discovered" Nona's body.

[Maggie]

Hi all, just found this site a couple of weeks ago while searching for info on Nona's murder after trial was delayed. Have enjoyed thought provoking posts. While I've tried to read all past posts, am having difficulty understanding the low opinion of RW that some have expressed. (and not the obvious, that he is friends w/ KJ) What am I missing? In past newspaper article links I've read:

1) the only involvment with the murder that has been printed is his being one of the two that were directed to the crime scene by KJ.

2) the article about the alleged rape at the party and RW's involvement, while if true is beyond disgusting. But... what if it isn't true?? The girl at party who supposedly told the cousin of victim of events later denied saying RW had any sexual contact with victim.

3) most recent DemGaz article about RW filing lawsuit against Russellville paper.

Some have posted remarks about his being a pizza delivery boy...doesn't he also attend college at Tech? Isn't there dignity in all jobs?

One more question, does anyone know for a fact that he lives with parents? The paper didn't make it clear if he lived with parents or alone.

[FDInLaw]

Hi all, just found this site a couple of weeks ago while searching for info on Nona's murder after trial was delayed. Have enjoyed thought provoking posts. While I've tried to read all past posts, am having difficulty understanding the low opinion of RW that some have expressed. (and not the obvious, that he is friends w/ KJ) What am I missing? In past newspaper article links I've read:

1) the only involvment with the murder that has been printed is his being one of the two that were directed to the crime scene by KJ.

2) the article about the alleged rape at the party and RW's involvement, while if true is beyond disgusting. But... what if it isn't true?? The girl at party who supposedly told the cousin of victim of events later denied saying RW had any sexual contact with victim.

3) most recent DemGaz article about RW filing lawsuit against Russellville paper.

Some have posted remarks about his being a pizza delivery boy...doesn't he also attend college at Tech? Isn't there dignity in all jobs?

One more question, does anyone know for a fact that he lives with parents? The paper didn't make it clear if he lived with parents or alone. Welcome to the board, Maggie! :seeya:

You are right about Ryan Whiteside, back in my college days I did all sorts of jobs. . . one even involved cleaning urinals! There's no shame in being a pizza boy.

[hawgustusgloop]

Hi all, just found this site a couple of weeks ago while searching for info on Nona's murder after trial was delayed. Have enjoyed thought provoking posts. While I've tried to read all past posts, am having difficulty understanding the low opinion of RW that some have expressed. (and not the obvious, that he is friends w/ KJ) What am I missing? In past newspaper article links I've read:

1) the only involvment with the murder that has been printed is his being one of the two that were directed to the crime scene by KJ.

2) the article about the alleged rape at the party and RW's involvement, while if true is beyond disgusting. But... what if it isn't true?? The girl at party who supposedly told the cousin of victim of events later denied saying RW had any sexual contact with victim.

3) most recent DemGaz article about RW filing lawsuit against Russellville paper.

Some have posted remarks about his being a pizza delivery boy...doesn't he also attend college at Tech? Isn't there dignity in all jobs?

One more question, does anyone know for a fact that he lives with parents? The paper didn't make it clear if he lived with parents or alone.

Welcome to this board!

As to your points, it's only my opinion, but:

1. Yes, as far as we know his only involvement was going to Nona's apartment with Kevin and his mom. The only other thing of substance is that RW supposedly told police that Kevin did not touch the lamp while they were there.

2. My impression after reading the articles was that Ryan Whiteside did not actually engage in sexual contact, but that the party took place at his house.

3. Well, people and attorneys file suits and motions all the time primarily for the impressions they will create among the public when they are reported on. Sometimes such things actually create a different impression than was intended. IMO it makes it look like the Whitesides are lashing out at the wrong people and should be glad no charges were filed and deal with it.

I don't think anyone is knocking pizza delivery people per se. I think someone made a comment about a pizza delivery person not making enough money to pay lawyers for silly lawsuits. I have no idea whom he lives with, but the party that supposedly took place when the rape allegedly occurred was at his parents' house IIRC.

[FDInLaw]

IIRC, the police believe Nona was murdered a little after 11:00 a.m. The 911 call placed by Kevin's mom saying they found Nona was made sometime around 6:30 p.m., I think. So, there was approximately seven hours between when Nona was likely killed and when the apartment became a known crime scene. I took the article to mean that someone was on her computer sometime in the late afternoon/early evening before Kevin, his mom, and Ryan Whiteside "discovered" Nona's body.

Now that I think of it, someone sent me this weeks ago:

". . . at 11:15 p.m. on December 15, 2005, Nona
Dirksmeyer's computer was accessed and a photograph of a beauty pageant contestant named Leslie Miller was
viewed."

I believe this is from what the defense filed. Can anyone verify it? Sorry, but I don't have an actual copy of the document. . . only bits and pieces that someone e-mail me. If this is correct, "p.m." is an obvious typo. If the computer was accessed at 11:15a.m. and Nona was murdered shortly after that, Kevin would still have had plenty of time. JMO

[FDInLaw]

>SNIP<
I don't think anyone is knocking pizza delivery people per se. I think someone made a comment about a pizza delivery person not making enough money to pay lawyers for silly lawsuits. I have no idea whom he lives with, but the party that supposedly took place when the rape allegedly occurred was at his parents' house IIRC.


This just came to me, I believe Ryan went to school with Nona and Kevin in Dover. The newspaper gave a Russellville address, unless his parents moved I wonder if Ryan lives on his own?

[JR2007]

This just came to me, I believe Ryan went to school with Nona and Kevin in Dover. The newspaper gave a Russellville address, unless his parents moved I wonder if Ryan lives on his own?
Ryan Lived with his parents in Russellville, but attended school at Dover with the rest of them.

[JR2007]

The fact that someone accessed the other pageant contestant's photo is extremely odd to me. Can anyone think of any scenario under which this makes sense? I don't understand why Nona's killer would risk detection and waste what I assume would be very valuable time by logging onto her computer. Maybe it would make sense if I watched a lot of Law & Order like K.Jo.

From the PCS: At 11:04, Nona received a text message which was apparently opened but not responded to by Nona. At 12:5 8 she received a text-message but it was neither opened nor responded to. Affiant believes that Nona was killed very soon after 11:04. The Medical Examiner stated that the homicide to include all non-lethal wounds could have been completed within a matter of minutes.

The fact that the police believe she was killed very soon after the 11:04 text message was received and opened makes me think it was something that would be very inflammatory to Kevin and may be what set him off. IIRC, Kevin IMO told a big ol' lie and said he was at his parents' gas station by noon, but the person he said he talked to claimed Kevin wasn't there until 1:00 p.m. So, if Nona was indeed killed after that text message and it only took a matter of minutes, Kevin would have less than 2 hours to do whatever he was going to do and show up at the gas station pretending nothing happened. Could he have returned in that time? I can't find any account of Kevin's activities after he arrived at the gas station other than those surrounding the "discovery" of Nona's body. I wonder how long he stayed at the gas station? I had originally assumed he was working a shift there or something, but maybe he was only there for a short time. I will once again have to go back and :read: on that one.

The link posted earlier about Nona's computer said that someone accessed it "hours" after she was murdered. So, I don't think the less-than-2-hour time crunch is as much of an issue as I did before. Maybe Kevin returned much later. What was his alibi for the time in between leaving the gas station and leaving for the Christmas party with his mom? How solid is it?

Whoever was on that computer either killed Nona or knew she was dead and didn't tell anyone.
One thing that bothers me about the computer login, is that the only place I've read anything about it was on the TV news site. Could it be an error?

[FDInLaw]

One thing that bothers me about the computer login, is that the only place I've read anything about it was on the TV news site. Could it be an error?
I'm wondering the same thing. :cool:

[hawgustusgloop]

One thing that bothers me about the computer login, is that the only place I've read anything about it was on the TV news site. Could it be an error?

I agree. That seems like a pretty big deal to have only made it on one news site. But what would be the error? The time? That it happened at all? Where did the news station get the info?

[FDInLaw]

Ryan Lived with his parents in Russellville, but attended school at Dover with the rest of them.
Thanks for the info! It's probably pretty safe to assume that RW's parents are behind the lawsuit. JMO

[JR2007]

I agree. That seems like a pretty big deal to have only made it on one news site. But what would be the error? The time? That it happened at all? Where did the news station get the info?
I'm reposting the web site for the TV station. I had to go back and read it again. It said that this info came from the defense.
http://beta.katv.com/news/stories/0107/386919.html

[JR2007]

If the computer was accessed at 11:15 AM then there would be no mystery. It could have been Nona herself that logged on. My impression was that it was a couple hours later. JMO

[Maggie]

Thanks for the info! It's probably pretty safe to assume that RW's parents are behind the lawsuit. JMO

His mother is very upset about newspaper article. Deserved or not, she thinks he is completly innocent of all accusations made in paper. She feels the only reason it was reported to begin with was b/c KJ was present. I'm not certain if father is also behind suit, they are divorced.

The attorney rep. him with TX address is RW's uncle.

That's all I know about that.

Thanks for welcome.

[optimumprimal78]

His mother is very upset about newspaper article. Deserved or not, she thinks he is completly innocent of all accusations made in paper. She feels the only reason it was reported to begin with was b/c KJ was present. I'm not certain if father is also behind suit, they are divorced.

The attorney rep. him with TX address is RW's uncle.

That's all I know about that.

Thanks for welcome.

Then maybe she should not let him hang out with KJ since she has a say in it.

[Maggie]

Then maybe she should not let him hang out with KJ since she has a say in it.


I don't disagree. My understanding is they don't think KJ is guilty. They think it is some other boy who was also seeing Nona and left town suddenly after her death. I haven't heard anyone else reference this theory, or know if said person even exists. Has anyone from the Russelville area heard this rumor?

I'm trying to keep an open mind about his (KJ) guilt/innocence. We all know about the "W. Memphis Three". But, must admit his behavior has been damning, and statistically < 70% of women who are murdered are killed by someone "who loved us".

[FDInLaw]

I don't disagree. My understanding is they don't think KJ is guilty. They think it is some other boy who was also seeing Nona and left town suddenly after her death. I haven't heard anyone else reference this theory, or know if said person even exists. Has anyone from the Russelville area heard this rumor?

I'm trying to keep an open mind about his (KJ) guilt/innocence. We all know about the "W. Memphis Three". But, must admit his behavior has been damning, and statistically < 70% of women who are murdered are killed by someone "who loved us".

Who could they be talking about? I would definitely like to know more about this theory.

[Maggie]

I don't disagree. My understanding is they don't think KJ is guilty. They think it is some other boy who was also seeing Nona and left town suddenly after her death. I haven't heard anyone else reference this theory, or know if said person even exists. Has anyone from the Russelville area heard this rumor?

I'm trying to keep an open mind about his (KJ) guilt/innocence. We all know about the "W. Memphis Three". But, must admit his behavior has been damning, and statistically < 70% of women who are murdered are killed by someone "who loved us".


Should be >70% of course.

[hawgustusgloop]

If the computer was accessed at 11:15 AM then there would be no mystery. It could have been Nona herself that logged on. My impression was that it was a couple hours later. JMO

This is all so confusing. The article said, IIRC, that the documents filed by the defense "implied" that her computer was accessed hours after her death. I can't figure out if it was during a time that Kevin's whereabouts are accounted for (so it couldn't possibly be him) or if they are suggesting that the police or someone else tampered with the evidence.

[al38]

Who could they be talking about? I would definitely like to know more about this theory.

One big rumor that went around was that it was the previous Russellville Mayor's son, Bubba Turner who had something to do with Nona's death. The actual rumor I heard was that Kevin owed drug money to Bubba Turner, and that Bubba had told KJ that something was going to happen to his girlfriend if he didn't pay up, and he didn't pay up-
Mayor Turner had an article in Courier telling everyone her son had nothing to do with it. She said it was just a rumor. It was also rumored that Bubba who left town right after murder to go to Mexico for drug rehab.
Now he is back at Arkansas Tech, I believe.
Does anyone else from this area remember anything about that?
I couldn't understand why anyone would go to Mexico for rehab- but what do I know-And it was probably just a rumor anyway.
Anyway, FDInLaw, that is the rumor that was most rampant that I remember that had to do with it being someone else.
Also what are guys talking about concerning Kevin and Arvest bank?
I live here and I guess I missed it if there was something in the paper about that.

[hawgustusgloop]

One big rumor that went around was that it was the previous Russellville Mayor's son, Bubba Turner who had something to do with Nona's death. The actual rumor I heard was that Kevin owed drug money to Bubba Turner, and that Bubba had told KJ that something was going to happen to his girlfriend if he didn't pay up, and he didn't pay up-
Mayor Turner had an article in Courier telling everyone her son had nothing to do with it. She said it was just a rumor. It was also rumored that Bubba who left town right after murder to go to Mexico for drug rehab.
Now he is back at Arkansas Tech, I believe.
Does anyone else from this area remember anything about that?
I couldn't understand why anyone would go to Mexico for rehab- but what do I know-And it was probably just a rumor anyway.
Anyway, FDInLaw, that is the rumor that was most rampant that I remember that had to do with it being someone else.
Also what are guys talking about concerning Kevin and Arvest bank?
I live here and I guess I missed it if there was something in the paper about that.

Wow! That is one juicy rumor!

About the Arvest thing, there was something in the witness/evidence list posted way back when on this thread that was "ARVEST PHOTOS" or something similar. I think a lot of us surmised that they must be surveillance photos of some type that might show the traffic on the street in front of Arvest Bank. I guess maybe they would show that Kevin's car was in the area at the same time he said he was in Dover?

[FDInLaw]

One big rumor that went around was that it was the previous Russellville Mayor's son, Bubba Turner who had something to do with Nona's death. The actual rumor I heard was that Kevin owed drug money to Bubba Turner, and that Bubba had told KJ that something was going to happen to his girlfriend if he didn't pay up, and he didn't pay up-
Mayor Turner had an article in Courier telling everyone her son had nothing to do with it. She said it was just a rumor. It was also rumored that Bubba who left town right after murder to go to Mexico for drug rehab.
Now he is back at Arkansas Tech, I believe.
Does anyone else from this area remember anything about that?
I couldn't understand why anyone would go to Mexico for rehab- but what do I know-And it was probably just a rumor anyway.
Anyway, FDInLaw, that is the rumor that was most rampant that I remember that had to do with it being someone else.
Also what are guys talking about concerning Kevin and Arvest bank?
I live here and I guess I missed it if there was something in the paper about that.

That rumor made it's rounds here too. Didn't hear the part about Kevin owning drug money though! Rumors always "improve" with time I guess. Quite frankly, if Kevin's defense team had anything substantial on any other party wouldn't we have heard about it by now?

[FDInLaw]

Thank you, Freshwater! ;)

:seeya:

[Amy]

Thank you for posting this. I think it will all come down to whether or not the paper actually "twisted the facts" to imply that Ryan Whiteside had GREATER involvement and culpability in criminal activity. That wording alone makes me think that instead of filing lawsuits, Ryan Whiteside should be busy thanking his lucky stars he didn't end up arrested. And I personally would LOVE to know how Whiteside's attorneys are going to demonstrate "substantial and irreparable injury."


I don't think the reporter says, this is fact and that is fact. IIRC, I think it was "alleged" and "according to." She only wrote what was on the police blotter--so those aren't HER facts, anyway. IMO

I tend to think that the paper/editor/reporter are legal savvy enough to have followed the letter of what is allowed to be reported or not.

RW should perhaps rethink who he runs around with and what he does if he doesn't want his activities to be on the front page of the local paper. After all, news is news. I might not wish to have, say, an accident I caused by stupid behaviour to be in the news---but, if the reporter thinks it will help sell his/her paper, it most likely will be. IMO

[lorettalockhorn]

I noticed there was a little something different about yesterday's posts. You know, I have to agree with you, sometimes the trolls serve a useful purpose, they tend to get the serious posters together, no matter what side of the fence we're on, to get rid of the troll and back to serious posting. I guess a little levity every now and again isn't a bad thing. It promotes teamwork, JMLOHO

LMAO The SassyAss inspired me to download an avatar; you like? I found it when I googled "armchair detective".

Ahem, anyway. It's obvious by the questions that we have for each other that there is either a lot of evidence that we don't know about or that the prosecution is up the creek, because our questions can't be much different from the questions that the jury will have.

I am extremely curious to know if KJ (or anyone else) punched a timecard at the Jones' Eat Here & Get Gas operation. If he did, that will certainly narrow things down with regard to his alibi and his memory.

RE: The Arvest photos, someone earlier (Amy or Valley Girl?) was kind enough to explain to me that there is a branch bank near the route that KJ would have likely taken to travel back and forth to Nona's apartment. Those photos would be date/time stamped and I'm assuming that they show his vehicle or one very similar. Which brings me to: IIRC, one of the guys who was posting here a while back and claiming to have inside info on the case mentioned that Nona was seeing a guy from Stuttgart (forget the name; James Something?) and that this guy drove a vehicle identical to KJ's.

I did hear similar (to what you guys report) rumors about Bubba Turner. Wasn't there a statement in The Courier at some point that he wasn't a suspect? At any rate, I've heard him getting busted on my scanner often enough that at one point I could have told you his LPN, DOB and DL#.

With regard to the new poster's Q about RW being vilified here; I can only say that to me, he comes off as a coddled child of privelege whose parents cover for him far too often; maybe because of the broken home; don't know how long they've been apart. I think that someone reported here that the Whitesides were in the offices of The Courier raising cain after the news article of the allegations was published. IMO, the money spent on the attorneys for the current lawsuit would have been well invested in military school or a dose of Scared Straight. That goes exponentially for Kevin.

[Amy]

Now that I think of it, someone sent me this weeks ago:

". . . at 11:15 p.m. on December 15, 2005, Nona
Dirksmeyer's computer was accessed and a photograph of a beauty pageant contestant named Leslie Miller was
viewed."

I believe this is from what the defense filed. Can anyone verify it? Sorry, but I don't have an actual copy of the document. . . only bits and pieces that someone e-mail me. If this is correct, "p.m." is an obvious typo. If the computer was accessed at 11:15a.m. and Nona was murdered shortly after that, Kevin would still have had plenty of time. JMO


And pm wouldn't make sense--when would the computer have been taken by LE from the crime scene? And, if it wasn't right away, isn't the crime scene secured in some way so there would be no access even if there are no LE around?

[Amy]

His mother is very upset about newspaper article. Deserved or not, she thinks he is completly innocent of all accusations made in paper. She feels the only reason it was reported to begin with was b/c KJ was present. I'm not certain if father is also behind suit, they are divorced.

The attorney rep. him with TX address is RW's uncle.

That's all I know about that.

Thanks for welcome.


I guess this is one of life's lessons that young folk seem to learn too late at times. You are judged by the company you keep. RW might want to have stayed loyal to his friendship with KJ, but both of them should have had the sense to realize that anything related to KJ IS news in that area, just because of the murder. And, they should have made a really concerted attempt to not do anything that would shine attention on their little corner of the world.

Wonder if RW's mother tried to warn him to stay away from KJ, or in the very least (what with friendship loyalty and all that) to remove himself from any situation around KJ that is likely to get them in trouble, or in the limelight.

[Amy]

2 things I remember were brought up.

Bubba--twice (gotta laugh, that is my son's nickname, in real life :D ) First, the rumor that maybe he had something to do with it, and right on the tail of that, I think a police statement saying he didn't. Can't remember anything about his going to Mexico in those posts, tho. The second time was just a couple of weeks ago, when his name was brought up again. Those original posts and articles were posted again.

The other fella, with the vehicle so much (or identical to) KJ's. At one time, I think it was that he lived in the same complex? Then another poster had them dating, but not necessarily living in the same complex. And there were posters at that time insisting he had not been investigated, but since LE didn't post the names of ALL the people they interviewed/investigated, I don't know how we would know that for sure.

[lorettalockhorn]

Merrick, Eat Here and Get Gas is an old Mad Magazine schtick. I do love me some Alfred E. Neuman!!

Amy, I did a search on the guy that was mentioned as another possible suspect several months ago but that laptop crashed and I hadn't saved the links to my desktop and don't have them on this laptop. I didn't find much except that he seems to exist. :| <<We need this smiley!!

[lemoncello]

there's a jim york iii
and a jeremy martin
i seem to recall
from the 3 stooges...
i think both are
on the witness
list...
emails to nona
from one of them
are also entered
into evidence...

[FDInLaw]

Over the past year, there have been numerous rumors about different guys. I fail to see a continuity of thought or even one person immerging as the "real" murderer. IMO, all we have seen is a scattered attempt to cast attention elsewhere.

:cool:

[FDInLaw]

For those of you that follow this case as well, you can view the interview with Nina's Mom here:

http://www.4029tv.com/video/10972413/index.html

[hawgustusgloop]

Is there a thread for Nina? What can we do to help? I can't listen to the video right now, so any direction you can give me will help. TIA.

There is a thread for her at the CourtTV board under "current crimes."
http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=267824

[optimumprimal78]

I guess this is one of life's lessons that young folk seem to learn too late at times. You are judged by the company you keep. RW might want to have stayed loyal to his friendship with KJ, but both of them should have had the sense to realize that anything related to KJ IS news in that area, just because of the murder. And, they should have made a really concerted attempt to not do anything that would shine attention on their little corner of the world.

Wonder if RW's mother tried to warn him to stay away from KJ, or in the very least (what with friendship loyalty and all that) to remove himself from any situation around KJ that is likely to get them in trouble, or in the limelight.

You would think that if the parents had any sense that they would at least explain the concerns that could come from hanging around KJ. However, they have been seen together and not necessarily in the best of places for them to be. With that said, if RW does like to party and hang out, KJ (and his parents) should also realize the problems that could occur. Everyone who knows about the case is watching his movements. It is during a time like this that your attention span needs to be longer than that of a nat if you are parents involved.

[JR2007]

I know I keep bringing up the Arvest photos but they seem like a clever way of viewing who might have traveled past ,on that route to Nona's, although there are many routes that could be taken to her apartment. I doubt that it will show what someone had speculated about earlier, about KJ being seen on it. I figured it may show or confirm a time that Nona was returning to her apartment from school. Although they did say that there were 11 or so photos, which seems like a lot for any one person passing. On another note along these lines, I read where in New York, a man protested the fact that he was sent a ticket through the mail for a traffic violation, which was caught on a traffic camera. So this may be going a little too far with cameras. Although if it wasn't abused by LE it would be a wonderful way to confirm whether someone in a murder or other serious crime had gone by a specific traffic camera at a specific time. In England they have traffic cameras everywhere. Used for good, they could be of tremendous value or horrendous if abused. Of course if you were sent a photo where you were creating a traffic violation and they sent you the fine with it, you could always mail them a picture of you money to pay the fine. :) :)

[JR2007]

Merrick
As far as I know Rsvl doesn't use or have traffic cameras.

[FKfanMoe]

Merrick
As far as I know Rsvl doesn't use or have traffic cameras.


Actually Russellville DOES have traffic cameras. Look at some of the five lane intersections on West Main and Arkansas Avenue and you will see the cameras. They're pretty obvious.

Moe

[FKfanMoe]

The condom wrapper is something that has caused me a lot of thought. I agree with your argument that it may have nothing to do with Nona's Murder. . . however, I believe it is probably linked somehow. The fact that there are no clear fingerprints on it (to our knowledge) is very suspicious to me. If it were merely just there and had nothing to do with all this WHY IS IT CLEAN OF PRINTS??? In my mind, a condom wrapper is the perfect surface to find prints on. My stubborn brain has probably just hit a silly hurdle here, but it really bothers me. Sure, the defense team specialist found some DNA on the wrapper. We will have to wait for the trial to find out what quality of sample it was. This is why it's good there is no possibility I'll be on the jury. . . I'm one of those annoying folks that gets caught up on little details!

:biggrin:

Good point, The no prints on the wrapper is odd. I do understand some people are non-secretors so their fingers would not have the oils to make a print, but it's ressonable to assume that between the factory and the last handler there would have been something. It's like the Sherlock Holmes bit about the dog that did not bark. It is unusual and draws attention.

Moe

[FKfanMoe]

JMLOHO

:rolleyes:

Gosh armchair detectives in a true crime forum? Whoda thought?

:D

AFAIK, sassy, we haven't discussed hockey. Isn't that some sort of sport?

Moe

[FKfanMoe]

With the coroner placing death between 10:00am and noon, a return trip might be plausible. Maybe Nona's computer was accessed in an attempt to throw the time of death? It would be interesting to know if there were definite fingerprints on the keyboard. :cool:

Or maybe someone was snooping around. Why another beauty show contestant? Same as condom wrapper, to give the police a red herring and give the impression it was a rival? Don't forgett he mouse can have prints as well.

Moe

[FKfanMoe]

I'm just saying there are many things a fine young man like RW can sell: cd's, dvd's, plants, cars, stolen stereos, etc.

Maybe RW is a male jigello ( not spelled right). I mean it WOULD explain why he would be " defamed" by the Courier article and how his character could be damaged. Bad for the male prosititue business.

:biggrin:

Gives the phrase door to door saleman a whole new meaning....

Moe

[FKfanMoe]

That rumor made it's rounds here too. Didn't hear the part about Kevin owning drug money though! Rumors always "improve" with time I guess. Quite frankly, if Kevin's defense team had anything substantial on any other party wouldn't we have heard about it by now?

After the gag order, there really hasn't been anything objectively confirmed as fact about this case, so far as I know. That's why there are so many rumors flying about. If this rumor is true the defense would be looking into it. Better in their eyes KJ being a drug user than a killer. I guess we'll have to see what the actual trial turns up.

As for the log-in password, there are some programs that automatically fill in the log in name and password. And if she was like most people, she would have kept track of her various onliine log ins with a list wirtten down somewhere. It wouldn't take much to see what that day's online session was about. Most browsers have a history section and Windows has a temp file. Not to mention the cookies some sites leave behind.

Moe

[JR2007]

Actually Russellville DOES have traffic cameras. Look at some of the five lane intersections on West Main and Arkansas Avenue and you will see the cameras. They're pretty obvious.

Moe
What you are seeing are motion sensors, or infrared sensors to detect cars. This is part of the traffic control system to allow for more efficient traffic flow. They use to have sensors in the pavement, but then they had alot of problems with them and when they needed repair it was necessary to dig them up.

[JR2007]

One thing that I don't understand is how they can charge KJ with 1 st degree murder. I'm not trying to defend him or anyone else. I would like to see justice done, and want the evidence and proof to conclusively show who did it, free any one who didn't do it, completely. No matter who.
In first degree murder doesn't the state have to show premeditation? I don't see how a crime of passion or spur of the moment murder, can be premeditation.

If the jury has only one option and it is for 1st degree murder, then the prosecution is taking the chance of him being found not quilty. I've sat on a murder trial before, and I believe the judge gave us instruction for finding the defendent quilty or not quilty of 1st degree murder, only, and not any lesser charge. Am I confused? :rolleyes:

[lemoncello]

One thing that I don't understand is how they can charge KJ with 1 st degree murder. I'm not trying to defend him or anyone else. I would like to see justice done, and want the evidence and proof to conclusively show who did it, free any one who didn't do it, completely. No matter who.
In first degree murder doesn't the state have to show premeditation? I don't see how a crime of passion or spur of the moment murder, can be premeditation.

If the jury has only one option and it is for 1st degree murder, then the prosecution is taking the chance of him being found not quilty. I've sat on a murder trial before, and I believe the judge gave us instruction for finding the defendent quilty or not quilty of 1st degree murder, only, and not any lesser charge. Am I confused? :rolleyes:

5-10-102. Murder in the first degree.

(a) A person commits murder in the first degree if:
(1) Acting alone or with one (1) or more other persons:

(A) The person commits or attempts to commit a felony; and

(B) In the course of and in the furtherance of the felony or in immediate flight from the felony, the person or an accomplice causes the death of any person under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life;

(2) With a purpose of causing the death of another person, the person causes the death of another person; or [emphasis mine]
(3) The person knowingly causes the death of a person fourteen (14) years of age or younger at the time the murder was committed.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to any prosecution under subdivision (a)(1) of this section for an offense in which the defendant was not the only participant that the defendant:

(1) Did not commit the homicidal act or in any way solicit, command, induce, procure, counsel, or aid the homicidal act's commission;

(2) Was not armed with a deadly weapon;

(3) Reasonably believed that no other participant was armed with a deadly weapon; and

(4) Reasonably believed that no other participant intended to engage in conduct that could result in death or serious physical injury.

(c) Murder in the first degree is a Class Y felony.


it looks like under
arkansas law
that it doesnt
take "premedidtation"
just an intent to kill...
also the judge can
instruct the jury
to consider lesser charges...
which was at issue in an
earlier case of a dover
man (what is it with
dover?) who killed his wife..
his appeal of his retrial conviction
was just denied...
but his case had to be
retried because the ar
supreme court ruled sutterfield
should have instructed
the jury on lesser charged
based on testimony
that the man was trying
to restrain her from
attacking him...
http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=13791

[FDInLaw]

One thing that I don't understand is how they can charge KJ with 1 st degree murder. I'm not trying to defend him or anyone else. I would like to see justice done, and want the evidence and proof to conclusively show who did it, free any one who didn't do it, completely. No matter who.
In first degree murder doesn't the state have to show premeditation? I don't see how a crime of passion or spur of the moment murder, can be premeditation.

If the jury has only one option and it is for 1st degree murder, then the prosecution is taking the chance of him being found not quilty. I've sat on a murder trial before, and I believe the judge gave us instruction for finding the defendent quilty or not quilty of 1st degree murder, only, and not any lesser charge. Am I confused? :rolleyes:

1st degree murder is a step below capital murder. A capital murder charge involves premeditation, and where it's the law, the offender is facing the possibility of the death penalty.


"capital offense n. any criminal charge which is punishable by the death penalty, called "capital" since the defendant could lose his/her head (Latin for caput). Crimes punishable by death vary from state to state and country to country. In some American states these offenses may include first degree murder (premeditated), murder with special circumstances (such as intentional, multiple, involved with another crime, with guns, of a police officer, or a repeat offense), and rape with additional bodily harm, and the federal crime of treason. A charge of a capital offense usually means no bail will be allowed."

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/capital+offense

[JR2007]

Lemon and FD
Yes, I've read most of what both of you just posted above. But can you all give me something that will show 1 st degree murder from the above definitions. It appears to me it would be 2nd degree.
Thanks. :confused:

[JR2007]

Merrick
Thanks, I believe you all recieved some more snow, didn't you.
Yes, I believe I understand the terms I feel that the Heat of Passion, (which I'm assuming was there), negates 1st degree. The prosecutor will have to prove his case, I guess.

[FDInLaw]

Lemon and FD
Yes, I've read most of what both of you just posted above. But can you all give me something that will show 1 st degree murder from the above definitions. It appears to me it would be 2nd degree.
Thanks. :confused:

When considering the appropriate charge, there are several things that need to be taken into consideration. . . I'm no legal eagle and the following is just how I see it. For many, especially those close to Nona, it's easy to create a romanticized version of what might have happened. . . Kevin (or whomever) simply lost their temper and struck Nona with the lamp killing her instantly. I don't won't to dwell on this, but Nona was not just struck once. Here is what the medical examiner found according to the Probable Cause Statement:

"Nona Dirksmeyer’s body was sent to the medical examiner’s office for autopsy. The autopsy was performed on the 19th of December 2005 and a final report was issued on the 16 day of March, 2006. The ME concluded that Nona’s death was a homicide caused by multiple blunt and sharp force injuries. Among the medical examiner’s findings was a large horizontally oriented laceration centered on the posterior occipital scalp directly in the midline which was four (4) inches below the top of the head and three (3) inches in length. The wound was associated with hemorrhage and contusion of the brain. Affiant was told by the ME that this injury was the lethal event and that it was caused by an object similar to and consistent with the base of the lamp which had Jones’ fingerprint on it."

At the her funeral, I saw with my own eyes that she had bruises on her face. The point I'm getting at is that the condition her body clearly indicates that someone fully intended her death. This is just my opinion, but I believe the poor folks on the jury that see the pictures are going to be convinced of this.

During the trial the prosecution will argue that Kevin took steps to cover up his crime. In our area, it seems most homicides that are a result of domestic violence are solved promptly. Sometimes the perpetrator will call in a frantic state and admit what happened immediately. If in fact guilty, Kevin shows absolutely no remorse. Someone with this level of disregard for another's life, especially someone they professed to love, belongs in prison for life period. Kevin hasn't confessed, so I'm confused as to why anyone would think he deserves a lesser charge. The condition Nona was found in was brutal, she was murdered in cold blood, and there is just no way to candy-coat that. JMO

[lemoncello]

Merrick
Thanks, I believe you all recieved some more snow, didn't you.
Yes, I believe I understand the terms I feel that the Heat of Passion, (which I'm assuming was there), negates 1st degree. The prosecutor will have to prove his case, I guess.

5-10-103. Murder in the second degree.

(a) A person commits murder in the second degree if:
(1) The person knowingly causes the death of another person under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life; or [emphasis mine]
(2) With the purpose of causing serious physical injury to another person, the person causes the death of any person.

(b) Murder in the second degree is a Class A felony.

5-10-104. Manslaughter.

(a) A person commits manslaughter if:
(1)(A) The person causes the death of another person under circumstances that would be murder, except that he or she causes the death under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance for which there is reasonable excuse.
(B) The reasonableness of the excuse is determined from the viewpoint of a person in the defendant's situation under the circumstances as he or she believes them to be; [emphasis mine]
(2) The person purposely causes or aids another person to commit suicide;

(3) The person recklessly causes the death of another person; or

(4) Acting alone or with one (1) or more persons:

(A) The person commits or attempts to commit a felony; and

(B) In the course of and in furtherance of the felony or in immediate flight from the felony:

(i) The person or an accomplice negligently causes the death of any person; or

(ii) Another person who is resisting the felony or flight causes the death of any person.

(b) It is an affirmative defense to any prosecution under subsection (a)(4) of this section for an offense in which the defendant was not the only participant that the defendant:

(1) Did not commit the homicidal act or in any way solicit, command, induce, procure, counsel, or aid the homicidal act's commission;

(2) Was not armed with a deadly weapon;

(3) Reasonably believed that no other participant was armed with a deadly weapon; and

(4) Reasonably believed that no other participant intended to engage in conduct which could result in death or serious physical injury.

(c) Manslaughter is a Class C felony.

IANAL but...
don't think arkansas law
is much into heat of passion
defenses...
i honestly cant
find any "heat of
passion" reason
that would cause kj enough
"emotional disturbance"
to make it reasonable
that he killed her...
but then i personally
dont find much excusable
in the heat of passion
defense... if youcant
walk away from a situation
when you know you
want to kill someone...
then you need to be punished
to the fullest extent of the law
when you do kill someone...

i guess the
jury will have to
determine...
if they find kj guilty...
if he meant to kill her...
just injure her...
or he was so disturbed
he killed her...

[JR2007]

Thanks for the replies. I agree that whom ever murdered her should be punished to the max. :(

[JR2007]

Does anyone have the link that was posted some time ago about the evidence they had about some clothes? IIRC There was a green sweater, white bra, and jeans with panties inside. I assume this is hers. It leads me to believe that they were not removed from her, but that she had taken them off herself, and with out any forcing. The reason I say this is that if some one else took them off or she was being forced to remove them, her panties would not be in her jeans ( as if removed at the same time). If they were removed by someone else, they would have most likely removed her jeans by them selves then the panties. And if she was forced to remove them herself, the same holds true. She would have be reluctant to remove her panties, so she would have remover her jeans, the her panties. I know this is speculation, but the way evidence is found says alot about how and who might have left it.

[FDInLaw]

any1 else bugged
by how KJ saw her body...
why would the curtains be open
if by chance someone else killed her?
wouldn't they want them closed
so no one could witness
the crime...

if it were a crime of passion
and the curtains were open...
wouldnt the killer close them...
to delay finding the body?

3 window blind panels were
on the evidence list
along with a white bra,
green sweater,
jeans with panties inside...
is it possible whoever killed her stripped her
nude?

hopefully some1 can post
the actual 911 call...
the contrast is startling
between the hysterial mother
and calm kevin...
even when he said she was dead...
there was no, break or crack in his voice at all
of course, this is just one dink's opinion

JR ~ This may be the post you are looking for. I'm not sure if there was an actual link posted though (I will keep looking).

[JR2007]

JR ~ This may be the post you are looking for. I'm not sure if there was an actual link posted though (I will keep looking).
FD.........This is the same wording I remember being used, yes. Notice they said the Jeans were found with panties inside..... I don't know if this wording is intentional or not, but think about how you have seen people,or you yourself, taking there clothes off when in somewhat of a hurry. They pull their jeans and underwear off in one quick move, leaving their underwear inside their jeans. This is not the same as if someone else removed them or they were made to remove them..JMO

[FDInLaw]

FD.........This is the same wording I remember being used, yes. Notice they said the Jeans were found with panties inside..... I don't know if this wording is intentional or not, but think about how you have seen people,or you yourself, taking there clothes off when in somewhat of a hurry. They pull their jeans and underwear off in one quick move, leaving their underwear inside their jeans. This is not the same as if someone else removed them or they were made to remove them..JMO

You have a good point. However, there is still one vital indicator that we know nothing about ~ blood slatter.

[JR2007]

You have a good point. However, there is still one vital indicator that we know nothing about ~ blood slatter.
You are correct. I've been thinking about that for awhile too, but it's something we aren't going to know tell the trial. The same goes for KJ's clothes if they can find them. Was the blood smeared or splashed. Were they the same ones he was wearing on discovery of the body. Making it convenient to lay on her, as people said before. JMO

[optimumprimal78]

I might have missed this if it were mentioned. Something that has bothered me is that whoever did this had to have had blood on them, right? If this happened in the daylight hours then how could someone not see this person with blood on their body leave a building or better yet if you had blood on your body/clothing and were driving to a random place wouldn't you be a little neurotic? Someone surely would have noticed something either by the driver trying to clean themselves or perhaps talking to themselves. Also, with the blood on the perpetrator there would have been some, for lack of a better term, residue if the person cleaned it off. I wonder if KJ or anyone else was checked for blood that was not his either underneath his fingernails or on his body. I know they do blacklight testing for DNA and I was just curious.

[JR2007]

I might have missed this if it were mentioned. Something that has bothered me is that whoever did this had to have had blood on them, right? If this happened in the daylight hours then how could someone not see this person with blood on their body leave a building or better yet if you had blood on your body/clothing and were driving to a random place wouldn't you be a little neurotic? Someone surely would have noticed something either by the driver trying to clean themselves or perhaps talking to themselves. Also, with the blood on the perpetrator there would have been some, for lack of a better term, residue if the person cleaned it off. I wonder if KJ or anyone else was checked for blood that was not his either underneath his fingernails or on his body. I know they do blacklight testing for DNA and I was just curious.
I don't believe there would be a lot of blood on the killer. Maybe some small splashes. That ,may not even be noticed after drying, if the clothes were dark in color.
As far as the residue, LE believes that, that is why he Laid on the body, at discovery, to contaminate any evidence there might have been, on himself.
I believe that on discovering a scene, as described, the first thing any normal person would do is to determine if a person was dead. Shake them or ask them some type of question. At least check for some sort of vitals.

[JR2007]

Hola, arm chair detective amigos!
Hello, SusieQ.
Welcome

[FDInLaw]

Hola, arm chair detective amigos! Welcome to the board! Love the nic! :seeya:

[JR2007]

I must say, I think I am on the fence about it all, so far. I sure would like to be a juror on this case, though.
I am one sided, but open to what ever the facts say or lead us. I could be a fair juror though.

[FDInLaw]

I can see points of view from both sides that are plausible, but I think I need a lot more information overall to lean one way or another.
A respectable and safe position. . . obviously there is a lot the public doesn't know yet.

[FDInLaw]

Hawgustusgloop, please check your PMs! Did you notice the new thread for Nina? :seeya:

[FDInLaw]

I really don't have much to post. I've been reading, so I just wanted to pop in for a second, but I'll keep reading, though! :seeya: Have fun. :seeya:

[TallaTonight]

:confused:Well, I could think of much "funner" things to do, but this certainly is captivating. Strange comment, though.


I have been reading but have only joined recently. I agree this is captivating.

[FDInLaw]

I have been reading but have only joined recently. I agree this is captivating.


Welcome to the board!:seeya:

[hawgustusgloop]

Hawgustusgloop, please check your PMs! Did you notice the new thread for Nina? :seeya:

I just found it! Thank you! Everyone should check out that thread.

[JR2007]

I just found it! Thank you! Everyone should check out that thread.
Which thread is it? I've read a bit about Nina's case and Roxanne Paltauf, but that's about all. I've stuck mainly on Nona's, I guess because I live here.

[FDInLaw]

Which thread is it? I've read a bit about Nina's case and Roxanne Paltauf, but that's about all. I've stuck mainly on Nona's, I guess because I live here.

This should get you there:

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?p=8815066#post8815066

[JR2007]

This should get you there:

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?p=8815066#post8815066
Read the links and made a post. Thanks,

[lorettalockhorn]

JR ~ This may be the post you are looking for. I'm not sure if there was an actual link posted though (I will keep looking).

Thanks so much for posting this; I missed it before (and no telling what else), do we know where in the apartment these clothes were found? I agree with the comment that she would have been reluctant(or afraid) to remove her panties.

I would think that KJ would have changed his clothes before returning to the apartment that evening lest an investigation reveal that some of the blood on his clothes would be "new" and some older and dried into the fibers of his clothes.

And I guess I think that the curtains were left open for two reasons; 1)that someone (anyone) would find her while he was at work, and 2) so that it would appear as though any Tom, Dick or Harry could look in and see that she was alone. (Maybe we're even supposed to think that seeing her alone and nude would drive the killer to make his attack. But God rest her soul, I just can't imagine Nona behaving so indecorously.)

Honestly, I think that when no one called to tell him that Nona had been found, he just couldn't stand it and had to go find her himself. And he couldn't go alone because he needed someone to witness his bizarre (IMO) behavior, the lying on the body.

[Amy]

One thing that I don't understand is how they can charge KJ with 1 st degree murder. I'm not trying to defend him or anyone else. I would like to see justice done, and want the evidence and proof to conclusively show who did it, free any one who didn't do it, completely. No matter who.
In first degree murder doesn't the state have to show premeditation? I don't see how a crime of passion or spur of the moment murder, can be premeditation.

If the jury has only one option and it is for 1st degree murder, then the prosecution is taking the chance of him being found not quilty. I've sat on a murder trial before, and I believe the judge gave us instruction for finding the defendent quilty or not quilty of 1st degree murder, only, and not any lesser charge. Am I confused? :rolleyes:


People think of premeditation as having taken the time (days, weeks, months) before hand to plan to murder. Actually, premeditation is only a matter of seconds.

If you have to "find" a weapon--it is premeditation, as you have to give it some tho't --looking for something to use, deciding what object you use.)

As was explained to me--two folks are having a heated arguement in the kitchen. One becomes out of control, and reaches on the counter or in a drawer and gets a knife and murders the other. Premeditated cuz he had to locate the knife.

OTOH, if one of the participants had been slicing the roast or something, and the argument ensued, and he went out of control and swung out with the knife that he is already holding that would be heat of the moment or passion.

The murderer obviously would not have been holding the lamp, so had to pick it as the weapon of choice. That was premeditation.

[FDInLaw]

Read the links and made a post. Thanks,

Thank you for posting! Nina's case has got minimal coverage which is beyond me. I first started following the case just to see if there were any similarities with Nona's. Though I'm pretty convinced Kevin killed Nona, I do try to keep a look out for any other possible suspects. However, there are no real similarities to my knowledge. I've found Nina's case to be rather haunting and I just can't forget about it.

[hawgustusgloop]

If Kevin did kill Nona, and if he had blood on his clothes, maybe he had a sweatshirt or something at Nona's apartment and threw it on over what he was wearing or changed and ditched his clothes somewhere. She had dated him for a long time. Maybe he had left something there, or she had borrowed a shirt from him if she was cold or something. It is pretty common to have some of your boyfriend's clothes at your apartment. Maybe there was some clothes of his that were known to be at Nona's but are now gone? He probably wouldn't have had to go far to get in his vehicle, but someone with a lot of blood on him would arouse a LOT of suspicion in the middle of the day in Russellville. Or maybe since it was December, he had a jacket or coat that he zipped up over his presumably bloody shirt.

[Brainstorm]

Excellent point! I hadn't thought of that. You are most likely correct that KJ had left clothes at Nona's and probably some other personal toiletry items, too. It would be nice to know if anyone who knew what KJ kept there had done an inventory to see what might have been missing. BTW, what happened to Nona's apartment and all her possessions? JMHO.

That is a good point !!!! I was SO disappointed when the trial got pushed back.It just seems almost unreal that this kid is just walking around,living his life,laughing,eating,dating(?) ..........just waiting for this trial........I know he is presumed innocent, but not IMO......
He watched enough tv crime shows,etc. that he really thinks he has gotten away with murder...Not IMO.remember-he informed LE of this right away?
What a strange thing,and at that moment,to inform LE of..........IMO

[Brainstorm]

Most sociopaths think they are smarter than LE. In this case, I think LE has it on him and I think a jury is going to put him away for a very long time. The sad thing is that no matter how long he spends in jail, Nona will no be coming home.:(

JMHO.

That is so true,so sad, but if he is locked away,maybe someone elses' daughter will be able to go home & LIVE instead of having the misfortune od dating & being "loved" by Mr.Jones............
does Arkansas have the DP?.........whats sad, IMO, is if he does a few years & then gets out to "love" again...............
JMHO

[JR2007]

That is so true,so sad, but if he is locked away,maybe someone elses' daughter will be able to go home & LIVE instead of having the misfortune od dating & being "loved" by Mr.Jones............
does Arkansas have the DP?.........whats sad, IMO, is if he does a few years & then gets out to "love" again...............
JMHO
Yes, Arkansas has the DP. I'm not sure if the prosecution is seeking the DP in this case or not though.

[hawgustusgloop]

That is a good point !!!! I was SO disappointed when the trial got pushed back.It just seems almost unreal that this kid is just walking around,living his life,laughing,eating,dating(?) ..........just waiting for this trial........I know he is presumed innocent, but not IMO......
He watched enough tv crime shows,etc. that he really thinks he has gotten away with murder...Not IMO.remember-he informed LE of this right away?
What a strange thing,and at that moment,to inform LE of..........IMO

I always thought the fact that he told the responding officers that he watched a lot of Law & Order or whatever was extremely arrogant and disgusting. It's like he IMO was trying to let them know (at least in his mind) that he was more like an equal than just some IMO random hick that just killed his girlfriend. It also made me feel like he was enjoying seeing the big boy investigators doing the real thing. He should've been in the corner crying his eyes out instead of acting like some LE fanboy.

All totally my opinion.

[hawgustusgloop]

Yes, Arkansas has the DP. I'm not sure if the prosecution is seeking the DP in this case or not though.

I don't think they are seeking the death penalty. The standards for a capital murder charge are pretty high in Arkansas (as they should be), and I think it involves "lying in wait" or a murder that occurs during a rape or other felony, but I am far from an expert in this.

[FDInLaw]

I don't think they are seeking the death penalty. The standards for a capital murder charge are pretty high in Arkansas (as they should be), and I think it involves "lying in wait" or a murder that occurs during a rape or other felony, but I am far from an expert in this.

For the death penalty to have been a possibility, Kevin would have had to been charged with capital murder. As it stands (he was charged with first degree murder) a life sentence is the maximum sentence possible in this case.

[jonikay]

Someone wondered what happened to Nona's apartment . . . They began renting her apartment quite some time ago. As far as her belongings are concerned, who knows? A friend of a friend actually rented out her apartment and she found out through the grapevine that it was Nona's. She never knew that the apartment she was living in was Nona's. To be honest, she was a bit freaked out when she found out. As far as KJ's clothes are concerned, I'm telling you that I heard he dropped them off at Salvation Army or Goodwill and the police tracked them down, pure rumor, I know. I have heard this from a few different people.

[TallaTonight]

Someone wondered what happened to Nona's apartment . . . They began renting her apartment quite some time ago. As far as her belongings are concerned, who knows? A friend of a friend actually rented out her apartment and she found out through the grapevine that it was Nona's. She never knew that the apartment she was living in was Nona's. To be honest, she was a bit freaked out when she found out. As far as KJ's clothes are concerned, I'm telling you that I heard he dropped them off at Salvation Army or Goodwill and the police tracked them down, pure rumor, I know. I have heard this from a few different people.

Goodness I would have been a lot freaked! It never ceases to amaze me what we humans will do to our species.

And the comment about watching a lot of "Law and Order" made me think also. We give 'our villians' how to classes daily. I have been doing a lot of reading of cases over the past few months and it is scary as ?well? its scary.

[FDInLaw]

Someone wondered what happened to Nona's apartment . . . They began renting her apartment quite some time ago. As far as her belongings are concerned, who knows? A friend of a friend actually rented out her apartment and she found out through the grapevine that it was Nona's. She never knew that the apartment she was living in was Nona's. To be honest, she was a bit freaked out when she found out. As far as KJ's clothes are concerned, I'm telling you that I heard he dropped them off at Salvation Army or Goodwill and the police tracked them down, pure rumor, I know. I have heard this from a few different people.
:eek: Yikes. . . I feel for your friend of a friend!

As with most (if not all) investigations, when the police were finished the family was allowed in the apartment to clear out Nona's things.

[phynickyb]

True, but that's only IF he did it and you haven't convinced me of anything, only more so the opposite of yours. The more you guys keep talking and trying to prove your point, the more I see how wrong it seems. JMVHO

kg: I have been following and trying to catch up on this thread for a few weeks now. As I have seen it...it has been nobody's job to "convince" anybody of KJ's guilt or innocence. It is about a MURDER of a young lady. This is a moderated "discussion" of information that has been disseminated to the public for the public to view. "The public", in this case is all of those expressing (or not expressing) their "opinions" here on this board. As individuals, with different levels of education and social interactions, we all will make our own minds up of how we lean towards the "evidence" that is provided. If you feel that the majority here, are here specifically to "prove" their point to you, than you are missing the point of this blog. IMO, instead of citing how silly the others' takes on certain situations, or picking their theories apart, present the more "logical" explaination from your point of view. Concise theories have a lot of weight, however much "conjecture" they are. The LE has offered up and charged KJ in Nona's murder. Not FD, not Merrick. They, like myself and the MAJORITY on this board, that there IS enough evidence that has been presented through the PCS that points the finger directly as KJ as the one responsible for Nona's death IMO. That is what makes America so great, IMO, the differences in ideas and beliefs! :patriot:

FD, you have been a great help in keeping this matter of interest to all of us. I personally thank you for your passion in finding justice for Nona. :rose:

[FDInLaw]

kg: I have been following and trying to catch up on this thread for a few weeks now. As I have seen it...it has been nobody's job to "convince" anybody of KJ's guilt or innocence. It is about a MURDER of a young lady. This is a moderated "discussion" of information that has been disseminated to the public for the public to view. "The public", in this case is all of those expressing (or not expressing) their "opinions" here on this board. As individuals, with different levels of education and social interactions, we all will make our own minds up of how we lean towards the "evidence" that is provided. If you feel that the majority here, are here specifically to "prove" their point to you, than you are missing the point of this blog. IMO, instead of citing how silly the others' takes on certain situations, or picking their theories apart, present the more "logical" explaination from your point of view. Concise theories have a lot of weight, however much "conjecture" they are. The LE has offered up and charged KJ in Nona's murder. Not FD, not Merrick. They, like myself and the MAJORITY on this board, that there IS enough evidence that has been presented through the PCS that points the finger directly as KJ as the one responsible for Nona's death IMO. That is what makes America so great, IMO, the differences in ideas and beliefs! :patriot:

FD, you have been a great help in keeping this matter of interest to all of us. I personally thank you for your passion in finding justice for Nona. :rose:

Welcome to the board! It's always great to get some out-of-state folks on here! Your post was well articulated and I hope this won't be the last we hear from you! Thank you for your kind words. ~ FD

P.S. How is Kingman these days? I lived there for awhile when I was a kid.

:seeya:

[phynickyb]

Welcome to the board! It's always great to get some out-of-state folks on here! Your post was well articulated and I hope this won't be the last we hear from you! Thank you for your kind words. ~ FD

P.S. How is Kingman these days? I lived there for awhile when I was a kid.

:seeya:

Kingman is growing fast. But still has the small town feel. The weather has been fabulous! Today it will probably be about 60 degrees, clear blue skies and beautiful puffy clouds.

This will not be the last time you hear from me. I have grown quite passionate, as well as much of my family, for watching these boards and keeping an interest in finding justice for those who are no longer around to find justice for themselves. My cousin was Renee Fox. She was an incredible mother of a 5 yr old little boy, beautiful young lady. She went missing for about 7 weeks and then was found dead about 20 ft off the road where she was last seen. Although LE claimed the area had been search, she was found in their search area. :shrug: Their answers do not add up. :eek: We do have a thread if anyone is interested in learning of her story http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=277535&highlight=renee+fox
http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=277536&highlight=Renee+Fox

After seeing what a family goes through when they have a family member go missing, my heart goes out to all families in the hopes that their search is met with honest, sincere efforts. We even had Tim Miller of Equasearch and his team, but the LE limited their search. IMO, honestly there is not a lot of options or help given to these families to help coordinate search efforts. I implore anyone that hears of a missing person, make contact with the family or ones in charge and offer your services. There is very little help that local authorites can give (time of LE more specifically) and if they don't find them within a certain # of hours, the family's hopes for continued searching rests completely on them. Resources are extremely limited and state/city jurisdictions limit it further. IMO I believe that the Federal Government needs to intercede to help families that have a loved one missing. So that they know where to begin and how. Who has a "how to" book on finding resources of this nature? I haven't found one...

Anyhow, sorry for my rant... I will next time get back on subject.

However, I feel that there is so much that all of you have done and can continue to do by keeping up your interest. Sometimes, the pressure generated from these boards actually can cause the LE to action. I am not so sure in Renee's case, but none the less.

[FDInLaw]

Kingman is growing fast. But still has the small town feel. The weather has been fabulous! Today it will probably be about 60 degrees, clear blue skies and beautiful puffy clouds.

This will not be the last time you hear from me. I have grown quite passionate, as well as much of my family, for watching these boards and keeping an interest in finding justice for those who are no longer around to find justice for themselves. My cousin was Renee Fox. She was an incredible mother of a 5 yr old little boy, beautiful young lady. She went missing for about 7 weeks and then was found dead about 20 ft off the road where she was last seen. Although LE claimed the area had been search, she was found in their search area. :shrug: Their answers do not add up. :eek: We do have a thread if anyone is interested in learning of her story http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=277535&highlight=renee+fox
http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=277536&highlight=Renee+Fox

After seeing what a family goes through when they have a family member go missing, my heart goes out to all families in the hopes that their search is met with honest, sincere efforts. We even had Tim Miller of Equasearch and his team, but the LE limited their search. IMO, honestly there is not a lot of options or help given to these families to help coordinate search efforts. I implore anyone that hears of a missing person, make contact with the family or ones in charge and offer your services. There is very little help that local authorites can give (time of LE more specifically) and if they don't find them within a certain # of hours, the family's hopes for continued searching rests completely on them. Resources are extremely limited and state/city jurisdictions limit it further. IMO I believe that the Federal Government needs to intercede to help families that have a loved one missing. So that they know where to begin and how. Who has a "how to" book on finding resources of this nature? I haven't found one...

Anyhow, sorry for my rant... I will next time get back on subject.

However, I feel that there is so much that all of you have done and can continue to do by keeping up your interest. Sometimes, the pressure generated from these boards actually can cause the LE to action. I am not so sure in Renee's case, but none the less.
I'm so sorry for your loss! For Renee and her loved ones. . . :rose:

If you have a moment please check out Roxanne Paltauf's forum here on Crime Library. She has been missing for seven months now. Her Mother and Aunt both post here and you may be of some encouragement to them. They are both pulling their hair out over the lack of help they have received from LE. Forums like this may be the most practical "how to book" out there. Keep pressing on for your cousin and others! God bless ~ FD

[phynickyb]

Here is the main link about Renee Fox's story in Crime Library:

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=272350&highlight=renee+fox

[phynickyb]

phynickyb,

My thoughts and prayers are with Renee and her family.:rose: I've followed Renee's case over on her thread and have posted there. I hope that answers will be had one day.

Glad to have you posting for Nona! As FD mentioned above, there is another family that needs help finding their missing daughter, Roxanne Paltauf has been missing since July 8, 2006. LE has not been very helpful. There's a Call to Action forum set up for this case. It's very interesting and, like you, Roxanne's family also posts here.

Thanks,
Merrick

Thank you so much for your participation on Renee's site. I have always appreciated your insight and straight forward comments.

As for Roxanne, i have been to her thread and have voted on the call to action forum... May her family be comforted by the Love of God:rose:

[phynickyb]

Uhhmm, I think maybe you do not understand my points of view. I also do not think you have read all my posts, or you chose not to see what I have to say. Nobody "HAS" to convince me of anything. I have already made up my mind, without any problems. That's what decisive people do. I am well aware of the purpose of this board; however, this board is not only a discussion about a young lady's life, it's about a discussion of the crime itself, a debate, actually about the crime itself. It's not a Kevin Jones bashing free for all, and I happen to be one who has consistently voiced an opposing view on here, so I can see where you and many others might feel the way you do about my opinion. But, like you said, that's why America is so great, anyone and everyone is allowed to voice their opinion. :patriot: I DO NOT appoligize if it offends you, it my God-given, American-born right!

However, I am sorry for your tragic loss. :rose: I can relate to your situation more than you will ever know.
IMO you seem to feel like I was attacking your position or opinions on Kj's innocence. I apologize if that is how you feel. That was not my intention. IMO It is as if you continually claim that others can't take your opinion, I haven't seen it. I have seen some react to your outright "baiting" but it is usually when the topic turned to a personal nature. Never did I see a reaction against one of your clear, concise statements of your opinion of the case. If I missed such, please quote it and refresh my memory.

BTW no offense taken as I don't believe your opinions have been stepped on.

Thank you for you condolences...Under our veil of the "internet", so many of us have endured tragic losses that not everyone knows about, you included. Here's to the "peace that excels all thoughts!":rose:

[FDInLaw]

Well, now... You have an AWFULLY familiar tone. Whatever "baiting" you'd be talking about, I am not quite sure. As I have said many times, this is not personal for me. So, I don't guess I am following you. You do seem to contradict yourself in some of your messages though. I am not getting in to restating my opinions, though, no matter how you want to "bait" me into it. I feel as if everything I had to say was pretty clear, at least to most people. I can see where it would be hard for some of those who believe passionately in the opposite direction might not see it as being clear because I, myself, am not clear on some of their views. When people believe passionately in what they believe, and are stubborn to boot, it is unlikely one side is going to convince the other side to change their mind. My opinions are on this board in black and white, if you or anyone else want's to adress it, be my guess. If not, so be it. :cool:
The level of paranoia you exhibit never ceases to amaze me. Just for the record, I have NEVER posted anything on this site under a username other than "FDInLaw."

:seeya: