Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[lorettalockhorn]

And I think very few (well, really no one) would describe their resuscitation actions as lying on top of the victim and running their hands thru the blood to try to see how long she had been lying there. Even without ANY CPR training, bet none of them would even think of doing it KJ's way.

In fact, I'm betting that the majority of people would say they would ask the dispatcher what they should be doing, if they did not already know CPR.

Hard for KJ to listen to the operator's instructions when he didn't stay on the phone as she requested.

[jeremiads]

In the Response to the Motion for Discovery towards the end it mentions e-mails between the victim and you. Did you supply all these? Do you know if there were e-mails supplied from another source?I supplied all of the e-mails I had with Nona early on after ridiculously false claims were made about the nature of the relationship between Nona and myself. It certainly shut that up fast.

The instant messaging logs were taken from Nona's computer that she was using that was supplied by Kevin which was logging everything. It was all on MSN. They also tried to use those against me but the attempts were so laughable it didn't go anywhere.

Really, being attacked for the kind of music you listen to is pathetic.

[FDInLaw]

I supplied all of the e-mails I had with Nona early on after ridiculously false claims were made about the nature of the relationship between Nona and myself. It certainly shut that up fast.

The instant messaging logs were taken from Nona's computer that she was using that was supplied by Kevin which was logging everything. It was all on MSN. They also tried to use those against me but the attempts were so laughable it didn't go anywhere.

Really, being attacked for the kind of music you listen to is pathetic.Are you saying that the instant messaging logs came from a computer that was in Kevin's possession at the time of the murder? Wouldn't Nona have deleted those messages before returning it? Kevin pulled up those files? Is it possible that Kevin knew about you and Nona before the murder??? YIKES! That there is motive IMO. You were targeted early on in this case. I could sense almost a rage behind the accusations. Yet, you had not been in contact with Nona for some time and had in fact moved on in another relationship. Interesting. :cool:

[jeremiads]

Are you saying that the instant messaging logs came from a computer that was in Kevin's possession at the time of the murder? Wouldn't Nona have deleted those messages before returning it? Kevin pulled up those files? Is it possible that Kevin knew about you and Nona before the murder??? YIKES! That there is motive IMO. You were targeted early on in this case. I could sense almost a rage behind the accusations. Yet, you had not been in contact with Nona for some time and had in fact moved on in another relationship. Interesting. :cool:Unless I'm somehow completely mistaken, the instant messaging logs were given to the investigation by the defense team, so they definitely pulled them up themselves.

I've always been certain that Kevin knew about things, so I've always been amused at what I perceive to be feigned ignorance on his part. When people like CH know early in 2005, then I don't doubt for a second that he knew. That's not even taking into consideration that he apparently had some sort of access to those instant messaging logs, but I don't know when he took that computer back from her. I know she had it around June or July of 2005, but that's the latest I would know of anything.

[FDInLaw]

I am certain Kevin knew. Why else did he go to such great lengths to paint their relationship as "exclusive?" He wasn't about to propose. . . there is no tangible evidence of this. Where was the ring? Had any family members been told? Nona had mentioned that they were talking about marriage months before but their relationship had been "off" since then. Curious that the computer was returned to Jones before this "off" period. Maybe it was part of the reason??? So many unanswered questions. . .

I wonder if Kevin suffered from some sort of breakdown. . . maybe his family expected him to marry Nona? (Just as they expected him to get good grades.) What did Janise and Kevin discuss the night before? Why so late at night? Maybe he tired of failing. . . and that frustration drove him to do the unthinkable.

"I never saw it any other way." He was actively cheating on Nona, how could he feel this way? Was this his expectation alone? Some how I doubt it. Nona's death brought him freedom from family expectations IMO. I see that freedom as a possible motive.

[Amy]

I am certain Kevin knew. Why else did he go to such great lengths to paint their relationship as "exclusive?" He wasn't about to propose. . . there is no tangible evidence of this. Where was the ring? Had any family members been told? Nona had mentioned that they were talking about marriage months before but their relationship had been "off" since then. Curious that the computer was returned to Jones before this "off" period. Maybe it was part of the reason??? So many unanswered questions. . .

I wonder if Kevin suffered from some sort of breakdown. . . maybe his family expected him to marry Nona? (Just as they expected him to get good grades.) What did Janise and Kevin discuss the night before? Why so late at night? Maybe he tired of failing. . . and that frustration drove him to do the unthinkable.

"I never saw it any other way." He was actively cheating on Nona, how could he feel this way? Was this his expectation alone? Some how I doubt it. Nona's death brought him freedom from family expectations IMO. I see that freedom as a possible motive.


That certainly is a version of what some other guys have murdered for:freedom. In the case of the men who were married, divorce would make them look "bad" but if they were widowed---much sympathy. In KJ's case, he would look "bad" in at least the family's eyes if either would break the relationship off, but, if Nona is dead, there are no longer any expections of him.

I just never figured out how in the world he could claim "exclusive" relationship when HE was not being exclusive. Apparently, their "crowd" would also know that neither were being exclusive. Did he think no one would ever catch on that they were both seeing other people? (Well, sounds like @ the trial, the jury only knew that Nona was seeing others.)

[FDInLaw]

That certainly is a version of what some other guys have murdered for:freedom. In the case of the men who were married, divorce would make them look "bad" but if they were widowed---much sympathy. In KJ's case, he would look "bad" in at least the family's eyes if either would break the relationship off, but, if Nona is dead, there are no longer any expections of him.

I just never figured out how in the world he could claim "exclusive" relationship when HE was not being exclusive. Apparently, their "crowd" would also know that neither were being exclusive. Did he think no one would ever catch on that they were both seeing other people? (Well, sounds like @ the trial, the jury only knew that Nona was seeing others.)There was a girl that testified to having sex with Kevin the week before, but another one was blocked from taking the stand IIRC. The jury saw a glimpse of what was going on, but certainly not the whole picture.

[jeremiads]

There was a girl that testified to having sex with Kevin the week before, but another one was blocked from taking the stand IIRC. The jury saw a glimpse of what was going on, but certainly not the whole picture.Which I've always thought to be a shame. I don't necessarily agree that it should have been relevant in a murder case, but when I weigh it against his claims of character when interviewing the police (exclusive relationship, proposals) then it all should have been shown to the jury. They were given a much rosier version of him and I've been disappointed in whoever is responsible for letting that one happen, be it the prosecution and/or judge.

[FDInLaw]

More evidence that Kevin was doing "detective" work at the scene (yet so "grieved" that he wouldn't stop messing with Nona's body). . .

"Tony Sigle
Russellville Fire Department EMT testified he arrived at the crime scene shortly after Brown. He said he heard Brown asked Jones to leave Dirksmeyer’s body and he heard Jones say “something about trying to call [Dirksmeyer]” as Jones left the room.
“He mentioned there was a stick she used to keep the sliding door from opening and he couldn’t find a stick,” Sigle said.
He said he observed a lamp and pants turned inside-out at the scene, as well as a “lampshade laying to the right of [Dirksmeyer’s] feet.”
Sigle also testified that someone at the scene made a comment that the room was cold, and he went to check the thermostat. He noted the heater was turned off and the thermostat read the room temperature at 60 degrees. " http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15366&Search=kevin%20jones

[jeremiads]

More evidence that Kevin was doing "detective" work at the scene (yet so "grieved" that he wouldn't stop messing with Nona's body). . .

"Tony Sigle
Russellville Fire Department EMT testified he arrived at the crime scene shortly after Brown. He said he heard Brown asked Jones to leave Dirksmeyer’s body and he heard Jones say “something about trying to call [Dirksmeyer]” as Jones left the room.
“He mentioned there was a stick she used to keep the sliding door from opening and he couldn’t find a stick,” Sigle said.
He said he observed a lamp and pants turned inside-out at the scene, as well as a “lampshade laying to the right of [Dirksmeyer’s] feet.”
Sigle also testified that someone at the scene made a comment that the room was cold, and he went to check the thermostat. He noted the heater was turned off and the thermostat read the room temperature at 60 degrees. " http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15366&Search=kevin%20jonesWow. That part of the article slipped past me, but I think it's a big deal. If he took the stick off somewhere, he's going to point it out because as part of his cover-up.

"Check everything..."

[FDInLaw]

Wow. That part of the article slipped past me, but I think it's a big deal. If he took the stick off somewhere, he's going to point it out because as part of his cover-up.

"Check everything..."
BINGO! Funny how this knowledge didn't stop him from rushing to open the sliding glass door. :cool:

[FDInLaw]

Also, and both sides agreed to this, that KJ and Nona had sex with several different people. We heard from one guy about his relationship with Nona today and will hear from Kevin's side soon. Amy Pitts will testify that she and KJ were "together" a week before the murder. It was weird, because although I suspected that they were on the outs, I wasn't under the impression that their relationship really wasn't one at all, under normal standards. The prosecution plans to use this to their advantage by stating that KJ said he and Nona were "very, very exclusive" and he was planning on proposing to her the next week. Thus, a lie also citing possible motive for KJ's rage during the murder. The defense plans to use this to their advantage by theorizing that one of these guys could have killed Nona. The defense said at the end of their opening statements: He had sex, she had sex, they both had a lot of sex. That doesn't make him a murderer. Excuse the graphic s*x talk, but that was said.
I think Kevin's motive was freedom and not jealousy. I really wonder if Nona's message that morning was a taunt of sorts. Guess we may never know the truth this side of eternity.:(

[FDInLaw]

More about the videotaped statement in today's Courier:

Bristow said Tuesday that the video contains a "mention of a sexual encounter between Jones and another person [who was not Dirksmeyer] a week prior to the murder."
"The defense believes any probative value is substantially outweighed by the prejudicial effect," he said. "It's simply thrown out there in an effort to say the defendant did something improper," and should be taken out of the statement shown to jurors.
Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Jeff Phillips argued Jones "adamantly denied" having sexual relations with anyone other than Dirksmeyer in other statements to police.
"He described their relationship as "very, very exclusive," Phillips said. He said Jones' statements about the encounter show "that wasn't the case."
"It goes to motive as well, concerning the true feelings [of Jones] or lack of respect" he had for Dirksmeyer, Phillips said, "It's absolutely inconsistent" with Jones' previous description of his relationship with Dirksmeyer, he said....
Patterson denied the defense's motion. "It's a credibility issue, and I'll have the jury resolve that for us," he said.
Bumping. . .

[FDInLaw]

>SNIP<
As far as the girl that was to testify to the sex that Patterson wouldn't allow after defense objected. I was there. This was not the girl that he claims he had sex with a week before the murder. This girl was to testify that she had sex with him before that, thus making it 2 other people that he has been with. Kevin stated during the interrogation that he had only cheated on Nona one time. The prosecutors argued it, stating that this proves to the jury that he lied about his relationship with Nona and solidifies the statement that RW made about knowing about "times" he has been with other girls. Patterson said that "all this proves is he had sex." At which point, Jones' side of the courtroom felt it appropriate to laugh. The prosecution fought this one, but said that they would save her for "rebuttal." I assume she'll be called back. Another win for the defense on this one.Bumping. . .

[lorettalockhorn]

I think Kevin's motive was freedom and not jealousy. I really wonder if Nona's message that morning was a taunt of sorts. Guess we may never know the truth this side of eternity.:(

Freedom and the thought that he would be the grieving fiancé go along with the armchair diagnoses of Kevin being narcissistic.

[ifIwereU]

Freedom and the thought that he would be the grieving fiancé go along with the armchair diagnoses of Kevin being narcissistic.

kinda like a mother that poisons her children to obtain sympathy and attention from others....I agree with Lorettas take on this:beer: ....and it appears Jones got very popular with the ladies after the murder...

[TJEddie]

In an article posted on page 80 of this thread, Carol Dipert is quoted as saying that Nona was under the care of a psychiatrist at the time of her death. I wonder if Nona's psychiatric records have been subpoenaed. Seems to me that's a great potential source of info on where trouble might have been brewing.

[FDInLaw]

kinda like a mother that poisons her children to obtain sympathy and attention from others....I agree with Lorettas take on this:beer: ....and it appears Jones got very popular with the ladies after the murder..."Killer Kevin." Ugh. :mad:

In this line of thought (Kevin killed for attention), how likely it is that the murder was premeditated?

All the lies. . . the crime scene staging. . . the attempt to have an alibi all afternoon. . . I think it is possible.

[FDInLaw]

In an article posted on page 80 of this thread, Carol Dipert is quoted as saying that Nona was under the care of a psychiatrist at the time of her death. I wonder if Nona's psychiatric records have been subpoenaed. Seems to me that's a great potential source of info on where trouble might have been brewing.
Good point. I wonder? :shrug:

[lorettalockhorn]

Aren't medical records difficult to subpoena? Or rather, difficult to obtain even by subpoena? I never saw any shrink types on the witness lists and wouldn't expect any testimony other than maybe that Nona was a former patient. What I would expect, would be that any mandated reporters would have immediately made a report prior to the murder if there was anything suspicious or dangerous (overt threats, for instance) going on that Nona talked about.

And I don't think Nona realized just how far her killer was willing to go to control her. :(

[FDInLaw]

Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Diagnostic Criteria
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
requires excessive admiration has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes


http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html

[FDInLaw]

Here are some more signs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder to look out for:
Jealousy and possessiveness
Excessive need to feel special, adored, loved, appreciated, or admired
Rage attacks when you do not sufficiently meet his/her needsControlling behaviors (trying to control how you spend your time, who you talk to, how you dress, etc.)
Inflated self-esteem, or grandiosity (bragging, "fishing" for compliments)
Dramatic, insecure behaviors
Expecting you to take responsibility for making him/her feel better about him/herself
Blaming you for behaviors or feelings (i.e., "YOU made me do this," or "YOU made me feel this way.")
Not taking responsibility for angry behavior and justifying angry outbursts
An attitude that demonstrates "the world revolves around me" and "you need to cater to my ideas, opinions, thoughts, and feelings."
An unwillingness to reflect on his/her own behaviors



WWW narcissism101.com

:eek:

[FDInLaw]

"Narcissism is categorized as a personality disorder by the mental health profession. It is referred to as NPD or Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Few are ever diagnosed because few go to therapy. Narcissism is not high self-esteem, but a condition where the typical narcissist suffers from

Preoccupation with hiding real or perceived flaws
Overestimation of importance, achievements, talents and skills
Maladaptive attention seeking behavior
Inability to empathize with others
Excessive anger and shame in response to criticism often resulting in rage

The narcissist will often manipulate others, especially partners, to control them. Projection and blame are hallmarks of this manipulation. It is estimated that 85% of narcissists are males. This site respects all victims of emotional abuse, both male and female."

http://www.narcissisticabuse.com/

[FDInLaw]

I'm a believer. :cool:

[CSOKC]

"Killer Kevin." Ugh. :mad:

In this line of thought (Kevin killed for attention), how likely it is that the murder was premeditated?

All the lies. . . the crime scene staging. . . the attempt to have an alibi all afternoon. . . I think it is possible.
I'm not sure if I think it was premeditated completely. I think that Kevin probably was getting more and more angry with Nona for moving on, etc., and maybe just went to confront her. I could definitely see him taking the condom wrapper previously though, but I think it could have been either him taking it to plant or him taking it to show Nona later. I can really see it both ways, premeditated and him just losing it in the middle of a fight.

[hawgustusgloop]

Wow. That part of the article slipped past me, but I think it's a big deal. If he took the stick off somewhere, he's going to point it out because as part of his cover-up.

"Check everything..."

It's like he was drawing a road map for the investigators, making sure they saw what he wanted them to see.

[FDInLaw]

The most telling thing that narcissists do is contradict themselves. They will do this virtually in the same sentence, without even stopping to take a breath. It can be trivial (e.g., about what they want for lunch) or it can be serious (e.g., about whether or not they love you). When you ask them which one they mean, they'll deny ever saying the first one, though it may literally have been only seconds since they said it -- really, how could you think they'd ever have said that? You need to have your head examined! They will contradict FACTS. They will lie to you about things that you did together. They will misquote you to yourself. If you disagree with them, they'll say you're lying, making stuff up, or are crazy. [At this point, if you're like me, you sort of panic and want to talk to anyone who will listen about what is going on: this is a healthy reaction; it's a reality check ("who's the crazy one here?"); that you're confused by the narcissist's contrariness, that you turn to another person to help you keep your bearings, that you know something is seriously wrong and worry that it might be you are all signs that you are not a narcissist]. NOTE: Normal people can behave irrationally under emotional stress -- be confused, deny things they know, get sort of paranoid, want to be babied when they're in pain. But normal people recover pretty much within an hour or two or a day or two, and, with normal people, your expressions of love and concern for their welfare will be taken to heart. They will be stabilized by your emotional and moral support. Not so with narcissists -- the surest way I know of to get a crushing blow to your heart is to tell a narcissist you love her or him. They will respond with a nasty power move, such as telling you to do things entirely their way or else be banished from them for ever. ^
http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html

[FDInLaw]

"If you're like me, you get into disputes with narcissists over their casual dishonesty and cruelty to other people. Trying to reform narcissists by reasoning with them or by appealing to their better nature is about as effective as spitting in the ocean. What you see is what you get: they have no better nature. The fundamental problem here is that narcissists lack empathy. . ."

"Narcissists lack a mature conscience and seem to be restrained only by fear of being punished or of damaging their reputations -- though, again, this can be obscure to casual observation if you don't know what they think their reputations are, and what they believe others think of them may be way out of touch with reality [see remarks on John Cheever elsewhere on this page]. Their moral intelligence is about at the level of a bright five- or six-year-old; the only rules they recognize are things that have been specifically required, permitted, prohibited, or disapproved of by authority figures they know personally. Anyhow, narcissists can't be counted on not to do something just because it's wrong, illegal, or will hurt someone, as long as they think that they can get away with it or that you can't stop them or punish them (i.e., they don't care what you think unless they're afraid of you)."

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html

[FDInLaw]

Hurting You Isn't Something Narcissists Do by Accident
In all the jabber about narcissism, the worst noise is this idea that hurting you is something narcissists do by accident.

If you get nothing else out of "What Makes Narcissists Tick," get the message that frees you of that ridiculous belief. Which is nothing but a baseless assumption.

I don't ask you to take my word for this. Test what I say when I say that narcissists hurt you on purpose. Anyone can test any narcissist.

Here's how. The next time the narcissist is hurting your feelings or making you feel low, let your feelings show and tell him or her how they are making you feel asking them to stop it.

Be prepared for a shock. Any normal human being would soften and let up, but a narcissist will do exactly the opposite.

What does that mean?

Is revving up their engines, kicking in the afterburners, and running you right over an "accident" after you show your soft underbelly and beg them to let up on you?

It's no "accident," that's for sure.

Want to see a narcissistic rage? That's no "accident" either. The test: Just fall to your knees in tears begging them to have a heart and stop kicking you around like dirt.

The narcissist's response? He or she blows up into a rage. Is that rage an "accident" when nothing but how deeply they are hurting you provokes it?

No, it's a willful and wanton outrage.
Now hear this: THEY DON'T DO IT BY ACCIDENT. They aren't just inconsiderate and touchy.

Test their "touchiness" (if you can do so safely, or have somebody not at the N's mercy test it - someone who can defend themselves). Rage right back in their face. Act just as wild right back in their face. Threaten right back. Speak abusively right back.

Now any normal person would be provoked to rage by your doing this in their face. But narcissists are so UNtouchy that they do the opposite. Watch how instantaneously the raging narcissist becomes meek and mild and switches to his "I-wouldn't-hurt-a-fly-mask."

Don't take my word for it. Test it. You CANNOT insult a narcissist who isn't in a position to bully you! It's impossible. Try it, you'll see. Your lack of vulnerability gives them skin a foot thick! (Not to mention a rubber spine.)

"Touchy" my you-know-what.

They aren't touchy at all. So perceived slights aren't what set them off. The VULNERABILITY of a TARGET OF OPPORTUNITY is what sets them off - IF there are no witnesses.

That's predation, not touchiness.

Narcissists aren't inconsiderate of your feelings. To the contrary, they are extremely considerate of your feelings. Your feelings are exactly what they are trying to affect. They closely observe how you react every time they do something to hurt you.

And they are like sharks, able to smell a drop of blood a mile away. Why? Because your hurt feelings are their pain killing drug.

They are addicted to it. Ever since childhood.

That's what their mental illness is, an addiction. (In fact, all addictions are classed as mental illness.)

So where do people get the stupid idea that narcissists aren't to blame for what they do?

It's asinine to think that narcissists can't control themselves when we see them controlling themselves perfectly whenever witnesses are present. So, what? being behind closed doors makes them suddenly out of control of themselves? Baloney.

Their problem isn't lack of self control; it's lack of conscience. Conscience is what makes people behave the same in the dark as in the light of day.
Okay, they have an addiction to trampling people. They are hooked on the childish high they get from throwing somebody down, stepping on the victim's back, and thumping their chest with a Tarzan yell.

But since when does an addiction amount to a carte blanche? An addiction is just a TEMPTATION. It doesn't remove the addict's responsibility to resist that temptation.

If a heroin addict sees you with heroin, he will attack and may kill you for it - IF there are no witnesses present.

But do we absolve him of his responsibility for the crime just because he's addicted to heroin? Of course not.

Same with the narcissist. Since childhood he has done this mind-altering drug of abusing people and is addicted to it. He addicted himself.

Yet addicted as he is, he demonstrates the ability to control himself by behaving whenever witnesses are present, misbehaving only when he thinks he can get away with it.

Innocence that is not.

He does what he does because nothing but getting his drug matters to him. So he has no conscience. He lives to get it, whenever he can get away with it.

So, hurting others isn't something narcissists do by accident. It's how they live.

The victims of narcissists must understand this. They must quit falling for the masks predation conceals itself behind.

I don't care how much the poor, little, ole narcissist whines that he didn't mean to, and claims that he has an excuse because HIS feelings were somehow hurt, and weeps about what a miserable childhood he had and how sad and forlorn he'll be if you go away, and all that crap. It's a joke.

Painful as this is to admit, the victims of narcissists MUST understand it. It's the bottom line. It predicates your choices.

http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2007/07/hurting-you-isnt-something-narcissists.html

[FDInLaw]

"I lie. Compulsively and needlessly. All the time. About everything. And I often contradict myself. Why do I need to do this? To make myself interesting or attractive. In other words, to secure Narcissistic Supply (attention, admiration, adulation, gossip)."

Article: Pseudologica Fantastica by Sam Vaknin
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/npd/63886

"They tell lies, even when there is no need to tell a lie. But telling the lie makes the game more interesting, for them, but leaves others in a state of confusion. Since they do this all the time and seldom tell the truth, that makes them pathological liars. With many years of practise, they become very convincing liars."
"They are very good at what they do and fool a lot of people, for a long time. Asking the question does not mean you will hear a truthful answer. Eventually, the truth comes out, because they get tangled up in their own webs of deceit." . . .

"They may spread lies about you, but in the long run, the truth will prevail. Others will figure out that what the N says, has no basis, in fact. So carry on, by moving toward something which is a lot healthier, for you. Take it as a very expensive learning experience." . . .


http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/NPDQuotes.rtf#_Oh,_What_a_Tangled Web They Weave

"Eventually, the truth comes out, because they get tangled up in their own webs of deceit." :rose:

[sololobo]

I guess we know what a narcissist is now. What behaviors, comments, and/or actions, barring unsubstantiated rumor and gossip, did Kevin exibit that would make us believe he is a narcissist?

[FDInLaw]

"Narcissists are great con-artists. After all, they succeed in deluding themselves! As a result, very few professionals see through them."

"I keep stressing that people with NPD do not present with the traits of their disorder. Far from it. How could any normal person take up with someone who had his NPD traits on show at the outset of a relationship? I suppose my husband had lots of practice, and had his supply-hunting tactics down to a fine art. This is the case with the real thing, full-blown NPD."

"I went back to him a dozen times, each time somehow thinking it was different, that maybe now that we had addressed all the issues and brought everything into the open, and he admitted he had treated me badly … it would change. And it WOULD go back to (almost) how it had been, but each time that honeymoon period would last a shorter and shorter amount of time. It absolutely wrecked me – my self-esteem has never been lower than during my years with him."

"I had an N for a partner, and he built me up like yours and made me feel good, and then, straight afterwards, he brought down the hatchet and cut me out of his life. Don't be fooled – just as he opened up, so can he close up – and heaven help you when he does."

"He has this vindictive, mean streak in him. He knows exactly which buttons to push and can tell you to go to hell and you'll look forward to the trip."

"After about a month no contact, he was back on bended knees begging to 'negotiate his surrender' to me. He asked me to marry him. I fell for it again and the drinking started again. Shortly after the wedding, the fighting started again. I realised that drinking was lowering my inhibitions and I let out all of the anger I was still carrying from the prior devaluation. Then I discovered all his lies regarding his business, which he considered 'his little secret'. After 6 months of marriage he came home from a business trip, waited 'til the next morning after I left for work and moved out."

"Now he's suddenly devout. 'Jesus' is a verb or noun in every sentence. He carries three Bibles (a pocket-sized one for reading on the train, a medium one, and a large one for Sundays). Unreal. This same man is having an affair with a woman who is married. She is entirely dependent on him financially, and has left her husband and two sons. Her life is now becoming the wreck my life used to be. Sometimes, I too, wish I could just tell her 'Run!' but I don't dare. I just hope she believes her eyes, instead of his lies … and saves herself."

"We have a saying around my house which is that an N will put you through a series of increasingly difficult (and more ludicrous) tests in order to get you to prove loyalty to them. If you manage to pass all of these ridiculous tests, you are rewarded for your considerable effort with the right to worship the N. I don't know about anyone else, but I've got other plans."


http://www.narcissistic-abuse.com/NPDQuotes.rtf#_Oh,_What_a_Tangled

I LOVE the last one! The marrige one gave me the chills.

[FDInLaw]

I guess we know what a narcissist is now. What behaviors, comments, and/or actions, barring unsubstantiated rumor and gossip, did Kevin exibit that would make us believe he is a narcissist?Great question. One possible "test". . . watch the 48 Hours program over again and ask yourself "how many times does Kevin show empathy for Nona or anyone else?" If Kevin merely speaks of his experience that is one possible indicator IMO.

:seeya:

[Amy]

Aren't medical records difficult to subpoena? Or rather, difficult to obtain even by subpoena? I never saw any shrink types on the witness lists and wouldn't expect any testimony other than maybe that Nona was a former patient. What I would expect, would be that any mandated reporters would have immediately made a report prior to the murder if there was anything suspicious or dangerous (overt threats, for instance) going on that Nona talked about.

And I don't think Nona realized just how far her killer was willing to go to control her. :(

It is my understanding (from discussions in another case) that there would have to be something that directly related to the murder, and to the defendant for the records to be supeonaed. Now, how they determine that I don't have a clue. In the other case, the therapist notified the DA that she tho't there was something significant. Even so, she wasn't allowed to just turn the records over to authorities, they had to have hearings and a judge had to decide.

[jeremiads]

I'm having trouble with some of the recent reports on Kevin's defense team supposedly finding a DNA match on that condom wrapper.

During the trial, it was made clear the DNA found on that wrapper was mitochondrial, which cannot be used to make a match. It can only be used to exclude people.

The recent claims that a match was made bother me for two reasons: one, Robbins declined to state what type of DNA was used in the match. Two, they claim that a match was made in the first place without specifying the type of DNA found.

Now, if they are working on the same mitochondrial sample as always, it is scientifically impossible for them to find a match. They can find someone that isn't excluded by the DNA, but they cannot claim to find a match.

If they are sitting on somehow discovering complete DNA on that wrapper, I have a hard time believing they would hold that back when talking about a match being made.

One of two scenarios are possible: Either they found complete DNA and do not want to say why (which would baffle me), or they just found a person recently that was not excluded by it which means saying they have a match is completely disingenuous.

It puzzles me, but I'd love to see some feedback.

[lorettalockhorn]

It is my understanding (from discussions in another case) that there would have to be something that directly related to the murder, and to the defendant for the records to be supeonaed. Now, how they determine that I don't have a clue. In the other case, the therapist notified the DA that she tho't there was something significant. Even so, she wasn't allowed to just turn the records over to authorities, they had to have hearings and a judge had to decide.

I have a hard time imagining that if Nona's psychiatrist had information either before or after her murder, that it wouldn't have been testified to.

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm having trouble with some of the recent reports on Kevin's defense team supposedly finding a DNA match on that condom wrapper.

During the trial, it was made clear the DNA found on that wrapper was mitochondrial, which cannot be used to make a match. It can only be used to exclude people.

The recent claims that a match was made bother me for two reasons: one, Robbins declined to state what type of DNA was used in the match. Two, they claim that a match was made in the first place without specifying the type of DNA found.

Now, if they are working on the same mitochondrial sample as always, it is scientifically impossible for them to find a match. They can find someone that isn't excluded by the DNA, but they cannot claim to find a match.

If they are sitting on somehow discovering complete DNA on that wrapper, I have a hard time believing they would hold that back when talking about a match being made.

One of two scenarios are possible: Either they found complete DNA and do not want to say why (which would baffle me), or they just found a person recently that was not excluded by it which means saying they have a match is completely disingenuous.

It puzzles me, but I'd love to see some feedback.

Well, you're way ahead of me. I'm still baffled as to why the defense would make any statement whatsoever after the Sutterfield ordered the record sealed.

[FDInLaw]

Don't forget Bill Bristow's statement from the court steps. . .

http://www2.arkansasonline.com/news/2007/jul/19/kevin-jones-found-not-guilty-dirksmeyer-murder/

(watch video)

In he states that male dna was found on the wrapper AND finger nail. Wonder why we have not heard more about the finger nail?

[upallnight]

I'm having trouble with some of the recent reports on Kevin's defense team supposedly finding a DNA match on that condom wrapper.

During the trial, it was made clear the DNA found on that wrapper was mitochondrial, which cannot be used to make a match. It can only be used to exclude people.

The recent claims that a match was made bother me for two reasons: one, Robbins declined to state what type of DNA was used in the match. Two, they claim that a match was made in the first place without specifying the type of DNA found.

Now, if they are working on the same mitochondrial sample as always, it is scientifically impossible for them to find a match. They can find someone that isn't excluded by the DNA, but they cannot claim to find a match.

If they are sitting on somehow discovering complete DNA on that wrapper, I have a hard time believing they would hold that back when talking about a match being made.

One of two scenarios are possible: Either they found complete DNA and do not want to say why (which would baffle me), or they just found a person recently that was not excluded by it which means saying they have a match is completely disingenuous.

It puzzles me, but I'd love to see some feedback.

I agree, this was my thoughts also. Just does not add up, but then again alot they said does not add up.

[FDInLaw]

From watching the video, Bristow seemed like a likeable guy. . . was he the one that called you???

[hawgustusgloop]

Don't forget Bill Bristow's statement from the court steps. . .

http://www2.arkansasonline.com/news/2007/jul/19/kevin-jones-found-not-guilty-dirksmeyer-murder/

(watch video)

In he states that male dna was found on the wrapper AND finger nail. Wonder why we have not heard more about the finger nail?

The fingernail was always baffling to me. I am paraphrasing and going from memory, but I thought the defense's experts found it. The experts from the state crime lab never saw it, but their person who testified said they would have seen it if it were there.

[jeremiads]

From watching the video, Bristow seemed like a likeable guy. . . was he the one that called you???No, it was Robbins that called me around 4:10pm on July 3, 2007. The call ended around 4:15pm. That is days before the trial. It was a shocking call, which is why I took notes on it and immediately turned them over.

He was friendly with me, that's for sure. The part that will interest people is how he said he wanted to talk with me about everything before the trial. Understandably, I thought this was a little too late to ask of me after the accusations that were leveled against me for the past year and a half. I told him "no" for specifically that reason.

He stayed friendly, and then told me that I was "probably wrongfully" brought into everything, and that he didn't believe I had "a hell of a lot to do with her death."

Now, for anyone keeping track, this should be extremely odd considering what they had no problem saying that was reported in the Courier (I was lying to the police, etc.), and the fingers that were pointed at me during the investigation.

After I said no again, in my opinion his tone changed. He said I was a "mysterious character" and blamed the State for not giving them information about me. (Which, for the record, is fine with me considering that I didn't have anything to do with the murder, so it's not in their right to know anything about me from the State.) He mentioned that he had a client to protect.

He got off the phone with me very soon after.

This call has always bothered me, and this is the first time I've ever said anything publicly about it. It shouldn't be a surprise that I was never called to testify by the defense.

[hawgustusgloop]

I'm having trouble with some of the recent reports on Kevin's defense team supposedly finding a DNA match on that condom wrapper.

During the trial, it was made clear the DNA found on that wrapper was mitochondrial, which cannot be used to make a match. It can only be used to exclude people.

The recent claims that a match was made bother me for two reasons: one, Robbins declined to state what type of DNA was used in the match. Two, they claim that a match was made in the first place without specifying the type of DNA found.

Now, if they are working on the same mitochondrial sample as always, it is scientifically impossible for them to find a match. They can find someone that isn't excluded by the DNA, but they cannot claim to find a match.

If they are sitting on somehow discovering complete DNA on that wrapper, I have a hard time believing they would hold that back when talking about a match being made.

One of two scenarios are possible: Either they found complete DNA and do not want to say why (which would baffle me), or they just found a person recently that was not excluded by it which means saying they have a match is completely disingenuous.

It puzzles me, but I'd love to see some feedback.

Thank you for this post. I know next to nothing about types of DNA evidence. Anyone know the reason why the sample would only have mitochondrial DNA and not the complete DNA? Like, perhaps the sample was too small or too old at the time of testing? Or maybe it's based on the bodily fluid that carries it? Again, I don't know anything about this stuff.

Also, have you (or has anyone else) ever found out what bodily fluid this DNA might have come from? Saliva, semen, sweat?

[jeremiads]

For added bonus, here's a link (http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/4043/capturexh3.png) to a copy of my cell phone records with the calls in question.

The first call is the call from Robbins.

The second call is me calling my girlfriend at the time, who they were also subpoenaing. (Which also always bothered me, because she had no connection to anything, and it felt like a tactic to pressure me.) I called her because Robbins said they were going to call her to make sure they could get in touch with her to tell her when she should come to court. They never called her.

The third call is me calling the investigators so I could turn my notes into them. They came by for them either that evening around 6pm or the next afternoon.

You know, I don't care if someone has a client to protect. Some of this just wasn't right.

[jeremiads]

Thank you for this post. I know next to nothing about types of DNA evidence. Anyone know the reason why the sample would only have mitochondrial DNA and not the complete DNA? Like, perhaps the sample was too small or too old at the time of testing? Or maybe it's based on the bodily fluid that carries it? Again, I don't know anything about this stuff.

Also, have you (or has anyone else) ever found out what bodily fluid this DNA might have come from? Saliva, semen, sweat?It's much easier to recover mitochondrial DNA if the biological sample is degraded. A complete cell only has two copies of nuclear DNA, which would be required for a complete match. Mitochondrial DNA exists in thousands of copies per cell.

As for what type of fluid, I have no idea. I think it's safe to rule semen out considering that it was a wrapper, so my guess is it would have to be either saliva or sweat.

[hawgustusgloop]

The second call is me calling my girlfriend at the time, who they were also subpoenaing. (Which also always bothered me, because she had no connection to anything, and it felt like a tactic to pressure me.)

Maybe they were going to have her testify to the contents of your music collection. :rolleyes:

[jeremiads]

Maybe they were going to have her testify to the contents of your music collection. :rolleyes:For a great take on that, let's list the albums I've listened to today while I've been working.

Jeff Healey - Evil Blues
Jeff Healey - Get Me Some (BTW, RIP Jeff Healey :( )
Toto - Turn Back
Toto - Hydra
Gov't Mule - The Deep End Vol. I Bonus CD
Nine Inch Nails - Ghosts I-IV

Anyone attacking me over my musical preferences knows nothing about me. I'm a musician, songwriter, and I listen to a wide variety of genres.

[hawgustusgloop]

For a great take on that, let's list the albums I've listened to today while I've been working.

Jeff Healey - Evil Blues
Jeff Healey - Get Me Some (BTW, RIP Jeff Healey :( )
Toto - Turn Back
Toto - Hydra
Gov't Mule - The Deep End Vol. I Bonus CD
Nine Inch Nails - Ghosts I-IV

Anyone attacking me over my musical preferences knows nothing about me. I'm a musician, songwriter, and I listen to a wide variety of genres.

I'd generally consider it foolish to judge anyone based on what they listen to. Are you the person the defense referred to as a "dark character" (or something like that) a long time ago? Do you think they ever intended to cast suspicion on you at the trial but picked Trey York instead?

As for the jurors who think Kevin is innocent....I wonder who they think might have killed Nona? Trey York? Jared?

[jeremiads]

I'd generally consider it foolish to judge anyone based on what they listen to. Are you the person the defense referred to as a "dark character" (or something like that) a long time ago? Do you think they ever intended to cast suspicion on you at the trial but picked Trey York instead?I'm not sure which specific incident you are referencing, but the investigators were told things that would sound similar, basically making me out to be some sort of goth kid that wore all black. That is about the furthest from the truth, and the investigators had a laugh when they saw that.

And I know they fully intended to use me at the trial--but after a year and a half of attempting to dig up dirt on me that would stick, they failed.

Honestly, the last straw in all of this was the 48 Hours episode, which used interview footage of me without anybody ever notifying me. That, and with the comments in the paper from Kevin's defense team referencing it, combined with everything I've posted about...

Yeah. With having accusations leveled at you that you are a murder without a single damn bit of evidence, I'm surprised I've kept as silent as I have.

Edit: For clarification, I don't think that they directly said I was a murderer. Though I know for fact people were spreading that I was, their defense team just pointed everything they could at me so the investigators would draw that inference. That's my opinion, and I doubt anyone would think it's far-fetched.

[upallnight]

No, it was Robbins that called me around 4:10pm on July 3, 2007. The call ended around 4:15pm. That is days before the trial. It was a shocking call, which is why I took notes on it and immediately turned them over.

He was friendly with me, that's for sure. The part that will interest people is how he said he wanted to talk with me about everything before the trial. Understandably, I thought this was a little too late to ask of me after the accusations that were leveled against me for the past year and a half. I told him "no" for specifically that reason.

He stayed friendly, and then told me that I was "probably wrongfully" brought into everything, and that he didn't believe I had "a hell of a lot to do with her death."


Now, for anyone keeping track, this should be extremely odd considering what they had no problem saying that was reported in the Courier (I was lying to the police, etc.), and the fingers that were pointed at me during the investigation.

After I said no again, in my opinion his tone changed. He said I was a "mysterious character" and blamed the State for not giving them information about me. (Which, for the record, is fine with me considering that I didn't have anything to do with the murder, so it's not in their right to know anything about me from the State.) He mentioned that he had a client to protect.

He got off the phone with me very soon after.

This call has always bothered me, and this is the first time I've ever said anything publicly about it. It shouldn't be a surprise that I was never called to testify by the defense.

WOW! Thanks for sharing, interesting!

[JustCallMeNora]

I'm not sure which specific incident you are referencing, but the investigators were told things that would sound similar, basically making me out to be some sort of goth kid that wore all black. That is about the furthest from the truth, and the investigators had a laugh when they saw that.

And I know they fully intended to use me at the trial--but after a year and a half of attempting to dig up dirt on me that would stick, they failed.

Honestly, the last straw in all of this was the 48 Hours episode, which used interview footage of me without anybody ever notifying me. That, and with the comments in the paper from Kevin's defense team referencing it, combined with everything I've posted about...

Yeah. With having accusations leveled at you that you are a murder without a single damn bit of evidence, I'm surprised I've kept as silent as I have.

Edit: For clarification, I don't think that they directly said I was a murderer. Though I know for fact people were spreading that I was, their defense team just pointed everything they could at me so the investigators would draw that inference. That's my opinion, and I doubt anyone would think it's far-fetched.

Do you know Trey York?

[FDInLaw]

No, it was Robbins that called me around 4:10pm on July 3, 2007. The call ended around 4:15pm. That is days before the trial. It was a shocking call, which is why I took notes on it and immediately turned them over.

He was friendly with me, that's for sure. The part that will interest people is how he said he wanted to talk with me about everything before the trial. Understandably, I thought this was a little too late to ask of me after the accusations that were leveled against me for the past year and a half. I told him "no" for specifically that reason.

He stayed friendly, and then told me that I was "probably wrongfully" brought into everything, and that he didn't believe I had "a hell of a lot to do with her death."

Now, for anyone keeping track, this should be extremely odd considering what they had no problem saying that was reported in the Courier (I was lying to the police, etc.), and the fingers that were pointed at me during the investigation.

After I said no again, in my opinion his tone changed. He said I was a "mysterious character" and blamed the State for not giving them information about me. (Which, for the record, is fine with me considering that I didn't have anything to do with the murder, so it's not in their right to know anything about me from the State.) He mentioned that he had a client to protect.

He got off the phone with me very soon after.

This call has always bothered me, and this is the first time I've ever said anything publicly about it. It shouldn't be a surprise that I was never called to testify by the defense.Let me get this straight. . . Robbins called you just days after they dropped the bomb that you had lied to the police? That took nerve. . .

(BTW I spoke with Mark Frost regarding this accusation and he could not recall any incident where JM lied or was uncooperative with the police.)

[FDInLaw]

I'm not sure which specific incident you are referencing, but the investigators were told things that would sound similar, basically making me out to be some sort of goth kid that wore all black. That is about the furthest from the truth, and the investigators had a laugh when they saw that.

And I know they fully intended to use me at the trial--but after a year and a half of attempting to dig up dirt on me that would stick, they failed.

Honestly, the last straw in all of this was the 48 Hours episode, which used interview footage of me without anybody ever notifying me. That, and with the comments in the paper from Kevin's defense team referencing it, combined with everything I've posted about...

Yeah. With having accusations leveled at you that you are a murder without a single damn bit of evidence, I'm surprised I've kept as silent as I have.
Edit: For clarification, I don't think that they directly said I was a murderer. Though I know for fact people were spreading that I was, their defense team just pointed everything they could at me so the investigators would draw that inference. That's my opinion, and I doubt anyone would think it's far-fetched.The defense has used some dirty tactics. . . I'm sorry you and your family have had to deal with this. :(

HUGGERS!

[jeremiads]

Do you know Trey York?Never seen him before in my life. Nona and I shared very few friends or even acquaintances in common.

[jeremiads]

Let me get this straight. . . Robbins called you just days after they dropped the bomb that you had lied to the police? That took nerve. . . More like a week or two. Those hearings were what... in June? And I was called on July 3? I know there wasn't that much time between the three Courier articles that mentioned my name in successively worse light (which has always made me suspicious of both the Courier and the defense team) and the call.

[FDInLaw]

Do you know Trey York?
I wonder if we will ever hear from someone that does??? :shrug:

[hawgustusgloop]

Let me get this straight. . . Robbins called you just days after they dropped the bomb that you had lied to the police? That took nerve. . .

(BTW I spoke with Mark Frost regarding this accusation and he could not recall any incident where JM lied or was uncooperative with the police.)

If I recall correctly, they used some really vague language along the lines of, "he wasn't telling the truth about the nature of his and Nona's relationship." Something they could later explain away if taken to task over it.

[jeremiads]

If I recall correctly, they used some really vague language along the lines of, "he wasn't telling the truth about the nature of his and Nona's relationship." Something they could later explain away if taken to task over it.There's absolutely no possible way they can walk away from that statement because it is demonstratively false. For example, from one article I saved on June 14:

In reference to follow-up interviews with Martin, Johnson alluded to Martin not telling "the truth about his involvement with Nona" to police.They can't walk away from that because there is nothing vague about it. It's a statement that is either true or false. In fact, unfortunately to the defense, I told everything related about Nona and myself and turned over e-mails voluntarily that completely cut off what they were wanting to push onto me. This all happened in early 2006, and for them to have continued this line in June of 2007 is laughable.

[lorettalockhorn]

More like a week or two. Those hearings were what... in June? And I was called on July 3? I know there wasn't that much time between the three Courier articles that mentioned my name in successively worse light (which has always made me suspicious of both the Courier and the defense team) and the call.

It's so obvious from The Courier articles about the hearings and the computer information that they were asking for, that the defense had you in their sights for a while, but didn't call you until the 3rd. Had you received a summons or subpoena or warrant before that?

[FDInLaw]

There's absolutely no possible way they can walk away from that statement because it is demonstratively false. For example, from one article I saved on June 14:

They can't walk away from that because there is nothing vague about it. It's a statement that is either true or false. In fact, unfortunately to the defense, I told everything related about Nona and myself and turned over e-mails voluntarily that completely cut off what they were wanting to push onto me. This all happened in early 2006, and for them to have continued this line in June of 2007 is laughable."laughable?" I can think of some better words. . . :cuss:

[jeremiads]

It's so obvious from The Courier articles about the hearings and the computer information that they were asking for, that the defense had you in their sights for a while, but didn't call you until the 3rd. Had you received a summons or subpoena or warrant before that?I was under a blanket subpoena (that's as best as I know how to describe it) on the prosecution side from the get-go, and I had a subpoena from the defense before the very first date for the trial back in January of 2007. At that point they didn't decide to subpoena my completely unconnected girlfriend like they did when I received the subpoena for the new trial date.

Those subpoenas were the only "contact" the defense ever even attempted to make with me before the phone call from Robbins.

[hawgustusgloop]

There's absolutely no possible way they can walk away from that statement because it is demonstratively false. For example, from one article I saved on June 14:

"In reference to follow-up interviews with Martin, Johnson alluded to Martin not telling "the truth about his involvement with Nona" to police."

They can't walk away from that because there is nothing vague about it. It's a statement that is either true or false. In fact, unfortunately to the defense, I told everything related about Nona and myself and turned over e-mails voluntarily that completely cut off what they were wanting to push onto me. This all happened in early 2006, and for them to have continued this line in June of 2007 is laughable.

What in the heck does this mean? Johnson alluded
to you not telling the truth? Was that in the Courier? No wonder you would have been suspicious of them. That appears carefully worded so as to convey the defense's intended message, yet make it hard to win a libel suit (or maybe slander in this case).

[JustCallMeNora]

Never seen him before in my life. Nona and I shared very few friends or even acquaintances in common.

Thank you for answering. Do you have any knowledge of Kevin's relationship with Nona and what it was like, prior to the murder of course. My apologies if you have been asked this before on here.

[jeremiads]

Thank you for answering. Do you have any knowledge of Kevin's relationship with Nona and what it was like, prior to the murder of course.I won't comment on that publicly because I don't know the boundaries on me repeating what Nona herself told me.

[JustCallMeNora]

I won't comment on that publicly because I don't know the boundaries on me repeating what Nona herself told me.

I understand. Thank you....

[Amy]

For a great take on that, let's list the albums I've listened to today while I've been working.

Jeff Healey - Evil Blues
Jeff Healey - Get Me Some (BTW, RIP Jeff Healey :( )
Toto - Turn Back
Toto - Hydra
Gov't Mule - The Deep End Vol. I Bonus CD
Nine Inch Nails - Ghosts I-IV

Anyone attacking me over my musical preferences knows nothing about me. I'm a musician, songwriter, and I listen to a wide variety of genres.

I THINK I have heard of Toto--that is, if it is a band. The others, not so much. But, not having listened to any of them (that I would know of) I'm not about to attack you on what you want to listen to ;)

[guppie]

Wow. That part of the article slipped past me, but I think it's a big deal. If he took the stick off somewhere, he's going to point it out because as part of his cover-up.

"Check everything..."

when KJ insisted, "Check Everything, Check Everything!" i took it to mean "Did you see the wrapper??? Check it, Check it." maybe it's just me! JMO that stood out to me from the get-go. (well, that and the bloody fingerprints on the greeting card to Nona regardless of where the heck it was originally.)

[guppie]

"Killer Kevin." Ugh. :mad:

In this line of thought (Kevin killed for attention), how likely it is that the murder was premeditated?
All the lies. . . the crime scene staging. . . the attempt to have an alibi all afternoon. . . I think it is possible.


premeditation is not necessarily the same as what many think of as planning "ahead of time." premedit can be within moments. if the killer took the time to make marks on her neck with another object and any other things done prior to the fatal blow, he certainly had time to premeditate. some may even consider the time it took to pick up the lamp as time to premeditate. wasn't the charge FIRST degree murder? well, that is probably why. i don't know if all juries understand this crucial difference or if they understand the difference between "beyond a reasonable doubt" and "beyond any doubt." makes you wonder if 2nd degree murder had been on the table if there would have been a conviction or at least a hung jury and a possible later conviction.

[guppie]

I guess we know what a narcissist is now. What behaviors, comments, and/or actions, barring unsubstantiated rumor and gossip, did Kevin exibit that would make us believe he is a narcissist?

gosh, Solo. did you really skip my entire post about KJ in his own words and his own behaviors? i even numbered it for you. i included no hearsay or rumor about him that i recall, only what KJ himself exhibited. i invite you to dispute KJ's own words, actions, and behaviors. what words, behaviors, and actions do you know of by KJ himself that show a different person than the narcissist FD sees? i think you like to defend him but with nothing of substance. where is the substance of your argument?

[sololobo]

these are purely my observations and opinions. i will not even go into the evidence. i will tell you what i observed from kevin himself and his mother. it's a bit long but very worth reading if you know anything about abuse. the minute kevin jones started talking, he jumped off the screen at me. it was so familiar..those words, that tone, that demeanor, that air of entitlement. i've been in a relationship with parallels to theirs. i guess i recognize it when i see and hear it. nona hid her abuse by her father so it is not a stretch that she would also hide abuse by kevin. i hid boyfriend abuse for 5 yrs.

kevin exhibits MANY signs (in his demeanor and what he says) of a verbally abusive person in his interview with 48 hrs and his police questioning videos. verbal abusers do sometimes cross over into physical abusers. they go into rages and have a higher propensity to kill. you can check stats on that.
keep in mind, one of these things alone amount to nothing, but it is the combination of all these that make the clear picture in my mind.

1) when KJ began dating nona she was sort of a weakling, shy, with low self-esteem then she became stronger once she began recovering from her childhood issues, speaking out, and competing in pageants. this changed her for the better, and KJ came across as controlling and he would not have liked that at all
2) abusers prey on the weak and needy and don't like it when they get a backbone and can make it on their own
3) KJ seems highly intellectual. i would bet he was partying and his grades were crappy at that time even though he is clearly smart enough to make A's.
nona was more of the over-acheiver with a drive, and that is detrimental when you are dating an abuser
4) the way he said school was "only an hour & a half away" and had this whatever look on his face when he said it - like he could do whatever he wanted but she could not
5) the way he stated matter of factly "i new i would marry her" & he "didn't see it any other way" ...that is a control statement
6) the hitting of the chair in front of police
7) the way he enunciated his own name in the 911 call
8) he struck me as one who wanted to go to the partying SEC school to do what he pleased and have nona sitting in a small town doing nothing ("do as i say not as i do" mentality)
9) the fact he would have worried about her after such a short time shows control and a stalking mentality
10) his mousy appearance and her increasing beauty with age clearly made her appear out of his league after all these years (once again, alone this would mean nothing to me)
11) claims he didn't know she was seeing other guys, yet obviously he did and was hiding that knowledge
12) he kept going to the police on his own with answers in his pocket ready to go the minute they asked...he answered questions too eagerly & quickly
13) most men like this come from a physically and verbally abusive father and mothers who overcompensate for that by babying and coddling them to an unnatural degree
14) KJ's mother's comments: "he GAVE her confidence" and the way she said, "when nona and kevin were together i saw him as a different person...just a little kinder and sweeter and gentle, because that's the way he always was WITH HER." watch his mother's expression when she says "with her"
as if kevin was another way the rest of the time...not so nice??? i think his mom knows exactly.
15) he came across as selfishly motivated doing this show to get "people stop talking about him and to stop judging him" (classic to abusers)
both he & his mother are more concerned about clearing kevin's name than having a killer brought to justice

i thank God everyday i made it out alive. unfortunately, nona did not. that is why i have found a passion in her case. that is what i saw. and that was all without knowing any of the other allegations re: drugs, voyeurism, public intox, etc. i only found those out after seeing kevin himself on camera. he is his own worst enemy. maybe God feels kevin is in more torment by being out in the world among peers who feel he is guilty than if he were isolated in prison. maybe that is his punishment.

Is this the post I might have missed? Which of your "opinions and observations" here would prove to me, or an unbiased jury, Kevin is a narcissist?

[sololobo]

gosh, Solo. did you really skip my entire post about KJ in his own words and his own behaviors? i even numbered it for you. i included no hearsay or rumor about him that i recall, only what KJ himself exhibited. i invite you to dispute KJ's own words, actions, and behaviors. what words, behaviors, and actions do you know of by KJ himself that show a different person than the narcissist FD sees? i think you like to defend him but with nothing of substance. where is the substance of your argument?

Thank you for numbering it for this poor ol' ignorant hillbilly:)

I don't know Kevin, you do not know Kevin, no one here claims to know Kevin. You diagnose and condemn him from edited snippets of interviews, 911 calls, and interrogations. I do not dispute facts, but your interpretation of facts.

I "defend" Kevin because there is "nothing of substance' from the trial or in this forum that convicts him.

You have a "passion" for this case because of your past experiences with bf abuse. I have a passion for the truth. There is a viscious, deranged murderer in my community and I want him off the streets.

[sololobo]

Great question. One possible "test". . . watch the 48 Hours program over again and ask yourself "how many times does Kevin show empathy for Nona or anyone else?" If Kevin merely speaks of his experience that is one possible indicator IMO.

:seeya:

Would you agree this interview was edited and we really don't know everything said?

[jeremiads]

I'd be curious on what any people who think Kevin is truly innocent have to say on some of the behavior I've been describing in my posts.

I know that, in my mind, it's funny behavior for defending someone who has no guilt.

[FDInLaw]

Would you agree this interview was edited and we really don't know everything said?Gosh, don't even get me started! Carol spent quite a bit of time discussing problems in Nona and Kevin's relationship but not a minute of it was aired.

I have only seen Kevin a few times, I certainly am not going to presume to be able to diagnose him with something most professionals miss. I do see interesting parallels and hold that being a narcissist is a viable theory as to how a seemingly "normal" young man would be able to do such a thing.

Would you agree that Kevin tends to lie for attention, even to the point of contradicting himself?

[WonderWoman]

I find it funny, that when JM gets on, you people attack him with all of these questions!! Hilarious!!:) :shrug:

[jeremiads]

I find it funny, that when JM gets on, you people attack him with all of these questions!! Hilarious!!:) :shrug:How is that even remotely hilarious? I'm making myself available for that exact purpose.

[lorettalockhorn]

I find it funny, that when JM gets on, you people attack him with all of these questions!! Hilarious!!:) :shrug:

Attack?

Sheesh. At least he's open to us instead of throwing out every obstacle possible to obscure the truth. Like so many. Many.

[ifIwereU]

Would you agree this interview was edited and we really don't know everything said?
I agree that a layman can't "diagnose" someone with any type of mental disorder. I will point out one incrediible statement made my JOnes the night of the murder to RPD investigator that I find to be selfish considering what had just happened to Nona.... the officer is asking what type of person she was and JOnes tells of how she was abused as a child and how as a grwoing adult she would cut herself....he then says "then she met me and I pretty much saved her life." He's actually trying to take credit for Nona overcoming a horrible life experience.....that IMO is a what I call "A CLUE"

[jeremiads]

I agree that a layman can't "diagnose" someone with any type of mental disorder. I will point out one incrediible statement made my JOnes the night of the murder to RPD investigator that I find to be selfish considering what had just happened to Nona.... the officer is asking what type of person she was and JOnes tells of how she was abused as a child and how as a grwoing adult she would cut herself....he then says "then she met me and I pretty much saved her life." He's actually trying to take credit for Nona overcoming a horrible life experience.....that IMO is a what I call "A CLUE"Nona always came across to me as an independently strong person, and this statement by him always bothered me once I heard about it. What she had to cope with requires that strength, and she obviously had it by what she did for the pageants and making it an issue.

[jeremiads]

Attack?

Sheesh. At least he's open to us instead of throwing out every obstacle possible to obscure the truth. Like so many. Many.Yeah. I find it slightly amusing that somebody would claim that I'm looking for attention.

Kevin's defense team and people spreading lies about me made me keep my head down for over two years, and it was an emotionally damaging experience for me. To think that I want that kind of attention put on me is beyond ludicrous.

[FDInLaw]

Yeah. I find it slightly amusing that somebody would claim that I'm looking for attention.

Kevin's defense team and people spreading lies about me made me keep my head down for over two years, and it was an emotionally damaging experience for me. To think that I want that kind of attention put on me is beyond ludicrous.Yep. It's a real "wonder." Don't let it get to you. You are welcome on this board, as is anyone that is willing to post as themselves. It takes a lot of guts and attacks from anonymous cowards will not be tolerated by this gang I'll tell you that much! :seeya:

[hawgustusgloop]

I find it funny, that when JM gets on, you people attack him with all of these questions!! Hilarious!!:) :shrug:

I ask him a ton of questions, but it is most definitely not an attack. I do that because he is forthcoming with information and seems quite credible as far as I can tell. I greatly prefer reading his posts over those from people claiming to have "sources" for their crazy assertions du jour. Also, he seems to understand the evidence (the DNA stuff, in particular) and can explain it.

And speaking of asking JM questions.....Did 48 Hours contact you AT ALL about showing the video interview or about appearing on the program? If not, it seems like that show had an agenda all along.

[WonderWoman]

I ask him a ton of questions, but it is most definitely not an attack. I do that because he is forthcoming with information and seems quite credible as far as I can tell. I greatly prefer reading his posts over those from people claiming to have "sources" for their crazy assertions du jour. Also, he seems to understand the evidence (the DNA stuff, in particular) and can explain it.

And speaking of asking JM questions.....Did 48 Hours contact you AT ALL about showing the video interview or about appearing on the program? If not, it seems like that show had an agenda all along.

What are you talking about??:confused: :shrug: :confused: :shrug:

[hawgustusgloop]

What are you talking about??:confused: :shrug: :confused: :shrug:

It was a question for JM. No offense, but I'm not really all that interested in you.

:tongue: :chicken: :o :D :( :biggrin:

[WonderWoman]

It was a question for JM. No offense, but I'm not really all that interested in you.

:tongue: :chicken: :o :D :( :biggrin:


gee thanks.....

[jonikay]

I'd generally consider it foolish to judge anyone based on what they listen to. Are you the person the defense referred to as a "dark character" (or something like that) a long time ago? Do you think they ever intended to cast suspicion on you at the trial but picked Trey York instead?

As for the jurors who think Kevin is innocent....I wonder who they think might have killed Nona? Trey York? Jared?
The mention of the "dark character" was made by the defense during opening statements. What was said was that CH stated that Nona had begun to "hang out with dark characters . . . " I took this to eventually mean Trey York, with his wristbands and such, since JM was never mentioned at the trial and the defense seemed to capitalize on the wristbands and the fact that Trey had considerably changed his look for the trial (hair cut, etc.). Also, since JM has mentioned that his friends and Nona's rarely crossed paths, we can assume that CH wasn't talking about JM?!?!

[jeremiads]

And speaking of asking JM questions.....Did 48 Hours contact you AT ALL about showing the video interview or about appearing on the program? If not, it seems like that show had an agenda all along.They tried to contact me and left me a voicemail sometime in November or December. I didn't call them back because I didn't want anything to do with the show, because I don't have any faith in these shows that claim to be investigative journalism when they aren't anything but soap operas culled from real life instead of scripts.

About a week before the show was to air, I went ahead and sent an e-mail to the same person who called me and ended up talking to her. I told her my involvement. She seemed to agree with me that Kevin's team releasing this "DNA match" right before the show had interesting timing. She also had a laugh with me that, from a PR standpoint, releasing that information the day after the tornadoes here in Arkansas was horrible.

She said that she had to warn me that they used video footage of me, but that my voice was distorted and my face was blurred. She claimed that there was a large internal debate about whether to use the footage, and that was the compromise they came to. She wouldn't tell me then what I was talking about on in the footage.

I honestly was in too much shock that she even had that footage to begin with to say much about it. I'm still incredibly frustrated that the footage was aired, and I'm going to start pressing hard if I don't get a definite answer from someone on who released it. Running that footage without my permission is absolutely disgraceful.

[jeremiads]

Also, since JM has mentioned that his friends and Nona's rarely crossed paths, we can assume that CH wasn't talking about JM?!?!No, because I met CH through Nona. That's the extent of that, however. I didn't like her and she didn't like me, and she didn't like Nona getting close to me back in December/January of 2004/2005. That's one of the biggest reasons why I think its laughable that Kevin claims to have never known anything. CH always seems to side with Kevin, and Nona made that clear to me.

[jonikay]

No, because I met CH through Nona. That's the extent of that, however. I didn't like her and she didn't like me, and she didn't like Nona getting close to me back in December/January of 2004/2005. That's one of the biggest reasons why I think its laughable that Kevin claims to have never known anything. CH always seems to side with Kevin, and Nona made that clear to me.
You know, that doesn't surprise me in the least. Now that you said that, it wouldn't surprise me if CH pointed the police to some of the "dark characters" she alluded to. And, because she loves KJ so much, she was probably not really "buddy buddy" with Nona towards the end and was probably loving the fact that their relationship was going downhill and CH reveled in fueling the fire. I still think the defense twisted that particular statement to refer to Trey. He was the "reasonable doubt" the defense used. The defense knew that people/prospective jurors would read the papers and this forum prior to and during the trial, thus mentioning you, Trey, and Jared.

[hawgustusgloop]

>snip<
I honestly was in too much shock that she even had that footage to begin with to say much about it. I'm still incredibly frustrated that the footage was aired, and I'm going to start pressing hard if I don't get a definite answer from someone on who released it. Running that footage without my permission is absolutely disgraceful.

It was disgraceful. That was the point in the show where I realized it was all about making Kreepy Knarcissist Kevin look good. The way they showed just that one specific question and answer, without bothering to put it in proper time context or discussing Kevin's philandering gave me a bad feeling about where the show was going. I don't know how much footage they had of your interview, but they showed just that one question.

[FDInLaw]

One of the few things I can offer as first hand. . . I was in ear shot, just days after Nona's death, and heard CH tell Carol that JM was "creepy" and that she was going to tell the police about him.

[hawgustusgloop]

One of the few things I can offer as first hand. . . I was in ear shot, just days after Nona's death, and heard CH tell Carol that JM was "creepy" and that she was going to tell the police about him.

I wonder if all that was her idea and hers alone.....or if Kevin helped her think of it? If Kevin didn't really know about JM's involvement with Nona, he wouldn't have thought to bring up JM, would he?

[jonikay]

One of the few things I can offer as first hand. . . I was in ear shot, just days after Nona's death, and heard CH tell Carol that JM was "creepy" and that she was going to tell the police about him.
So, I wonder . . . are we sure it was male DNA on that planted condom wrapper? If there even is a DNA match . . .

[lorettalockhorn]

One of the few things I can offer as first hand. . . I was in ear shot, just days after Nona's death, and heard CH tell Carol that JM was "creepy" and that she was going to tell the police about him.

CH thinks JM is creepy? Hello, Pot, meet kettle.

[hawgustusgloop]

So, I wonder . . . are we sure it was male DNA on that planted condom wrapper? If there even is a DNA match . . .

I thought it was stated somewhere that it was indeed male and not Kevin's, I guess I will go back and :read: .

[jeremiads]

One of the few things I can offer as first hand. . . I was in ear shot, just days after Nona's death, and heard CH tell Carol that JM was "creepy" and that she was going to tell the police about him.I don't have any doubts in my head that CH was involved, but I don't think she was the only one.

[hawgustusgloop]

Don't forget Bill Bristow's statement from the court steps. . .

http://www2.arkansasonline.com/news/2007/jul/19/kevin-jones-found-not-guilty-dirksmeyer-murder/

(watch video)

In he states that male dna was found on the wrapper AND finger nail. Wonder why we have not heard more about the finger nail?

Bump

He can't just lie about that, can he?

[jeremiads]

I thought it was stated somewhere that it was indeed male and not Kevin's, I guess I will go back and :read: .The last I knew, it was y-chromosome DNA that they found, which means it has to be male.

[FDInLaw]

The last I knew, it was y-chromosome DNA that they found, which means it has to be male.
That's right.

[FDInLaw]

>snip<

"well holy crap. i didn't know i was being watched until i read this article. at least this guy sounds like he's on my side. i'm so sick of the news and the press printing articles that are absolute lies. when i read that article up there, i cried. finally someone who knows what the hell he's talking about. i iwas initially mad that he took my words and put them somewhere else, but i guess i have to get over that because i did put them on the net for anyone to read, but after i read the whole article, i thought "thank god... someone out there is not a moron."

at least he's covering all angles of the situation instead of pointing a big ignorant finger at kevin jones.

kevin is my best friend. he and nona and jim and i were all best friends together. people need to stop pointing fingers and start praying, holding hands, and showing love to one another. i know with all of my heart, soul, and being that kevin is innocent. i know this and there is no way for me to ever prove it to you or anyone else out there. but i will die knowing he is innocent, believing it with every piece of me. and this isn't childish igorance, this isn't me overlooking what i don't want to see. this is me, a little girl who was forced to grow up too quickly in a ****ty situation, and who was then thrown into a whirlwind of death and murder and terror, and has now grown up to see that the world isn't as perfect as she once thought it to be. this is me telling the whole world right now that if they truly believe kevin jones did this, then they have to be the stupidest people i've ever met in my entire life because the sadness i saw that night.. that terrible ****ing night, that was the kind of sorrow that nobody should EVER have to experience.

i picked kevin jones up off my kitchen floor that night because that boy was too empty to move. i saw him fall to his knees, tears in his eyes, hands to God, wailing about his lost angel, nona, and how much he wanted her back. i watched him cry, i stayed up with him EVERY goddamned night of that week, holding him and listening to him, trying to comfort him in any way possible. i love him. and he loved Nona. and if there is anyone in this world who thinks something else, then i want nothing to do with any of you because nothing you say will convince me of anything else. i know the truth. i know kevin is innocent. and i will always believe that. i only believe the truth.

i still stay up at night thinking about her. i still have hour long conversations with kevin on my cell phone at night when we both can't sleep because we miss her too much. this is a bond that nothing and nobody will ever be able to break. death doesn't kill true love. it only delays it. and i know that one day we will all be together again and kevin will once again be truly happy. and until that day, everyone out there should just leave him the hell alone.. he's been through enough without everyone screaming and pointing and accusing him of something he would never do.. he would give anything to be put in her place, to keep her on this earth, to let her live. he would have died for her. but he would never have killed her. he loved her too much and he will die loving her just as much.

that is all i have to say on this subject and that is all i'm going to say."

( From: http://www.xanga.com/yuppie_trash ) Just bumping this post CH made.

[hawgustusgloop]

Just bumping this post CH made.

I wonder if she still feels the same way today?

[jonikay]

I would like to formally introduce everyone to the new and improved hawgustusgloop, SENIOR member of crimelibrary forums. Congrats . . . and don't forget to thank the little people.:beer: :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

Hey All!

Just did a seach for "Chelsea Huckabay" (Nona's bestfriend) and found her site that Steve Huff must have used to get his stuff. She posted something new and it's worth posting here. . .

"well holy crap. i didn't know i was being watched until i read this article. at least this guy sounds like he's on my side. i'm so sick of the news and the press printing articles that are absolute lies. when i read that article up there, i cried. finally someone who knows what the hell he's talking about. i iwas initially mad that he took my words and put them somewhere else, but i guess i have to get over that because i did put them on the net for anyone to read, but after i read the whole article, i thought "thank god... someone out there is not a moron."

at least he's covering all angles of the situation instead of pointing a big ignorant finger at kevin jones.

kevin is my best friend. he and nona and jim and i were all best friends together. people need to stop pointing fingers and start praying, holding hands, and showing love to one another. i know with all of my heart, soul, and being that kevin is innocent. i know this and there is no way for me to ever prove it to you or anyone else out there. but i will die knowing he is innocent, believing it with every piece of me. and this isn't childish igorance, this isn't me overlooking what i don't want to see. this is me, a little girl who was forced to grow up too quickly in a ****ty situation, and who was then thrown into a whirlwind of death and murder and terror, and has now grown up to see that the world isn't as perfect as she once thought it to be. this is me telling the whole world right now that if they truly believe kevin jones did this, then they have to be the stupidest people i've ever met in my entire life because the sadness i saw that night.. that terrible ****ing night, that was the kind of sorrow that nobody should EVER have to experience.

i picked kevin jones up off my kitchen floor that night because that boy was too empty to move. i saw him fall to his knees, tears in his eyes, hands to God, wailing about his lost angel, nona, and how much he wanted her back. i watched him cry, i stayed up with him EVERY goddamned night of that week, holding him and listening to him, trying to comfort him in any way possible. i love him. and he loved Nona. and if there is anyone in this world who thinks something else, then i want nothing to do with any of you because nothing you say will convince me of anything else. i know the truth. i know kevin is innocent. and i will always believe that. i only believe the truth.

i still stay up at night thinking about her. i still have hour long conversations with kevin on my cell phone at night when we both can't sleep because we miss her too much. this is a bond that nothing and nobody will ever be able to break. death doesn't kill true love. it only delays it. and i know that one day we will all be together again and kevin will once again be truly happy. and until that day, everyone out there should just leave him the hell alone.. he's been through enough without everyone screaming and pointing and accusing him of something he would never do.. he would give anything to be put in her place, to keep her on this earth, to let her live. he would have died for her. but he would never have killed her. he loved her too much and he will die loving her just as much.

that is all i have to say on this subject and that is all i'm going to say."

( From: http://www.xanga.com/yuppie_trash )

Kevin was so prostrate with grief, it's a wonder that he could be on the internet posting about Nona's death. No comment on the fact that he was arrested for public intoxication on the anniversary of her death. And I guess we don't want to know whatall CH did to comfort poor Kevin. :eek:

Loved her too much?

Kevin's suffering kinda gives me a case of schedenfraude.

[hawgustusgloop]

I would like to formally introduce everyone to the new and improved hawgustusgloop, SENIOR member of crimelibrary forums. Congrats . . . and don't forget to thank the little people.:beer: :seeya:

Wow, thanks! I never thought I'd make it to 1000 posts. It took nearly 2 years for me to think of 1000 things to say.

[lorettalockhorn]

I would like to formally introduce everyone to the new and improved hawgustusgloop, SENIOR member of crimelibrary forums. Congrats . . . and don't forget to thank the little people.:beer: :seeya:

A thousand posts!!! And smart and beeyootifull AND rich!! :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

Wow, thanks! I never thought I'd make it to 1000 posts. It took nearly 2 years for me to think of 1000 things to say.

Just do what us real seniors do. Repeat yourself. Ad nauseum. Ad infinitum. :tongue:

[upallnight]

I find it funny, that when JM gets on, you people attack him with all of these questions!! Hilarious!!:) :shrug:

I don't think no one is attacking him, and I sure don't think there is anything funny about what happened or this person that stupid defense tried to pin the murder on at all. He is simply here to talk, that's all. I am sure he knows the facts of what they put him through! He seems to care and seems to want this case solved. Why would you think he is being attacked?

[upallnight]

Nona always came across to me as an independently strong person, and this statement by him always bothered me once I heard about it. What she had to cope with requires that strength, and she obviously had it by what she did for the pageants and making it an issue.

Seems to me Nona was facing this head on. Don't see how Kevin saved her life, why would he be having sex with other girls if he was do dang good to her? I am sure many agree with you JM. Right, he was the self pronounced person who saved her life, oh pooh! Nona seemed to be a strong person and we will never know just how many people she could have helped, possibly saved herself, I could see Nona doing this, Kevin - NO not at all!

[FDInLaw]

Wow, thanks! I never thought I'd make it to 1000 posts. It took nearly 2 years for me to think of 1000 things to say.
CONGRATS!!! :beer:

[guppie]

Seems to me Nona was facing this head on. Don't see how Kevin saved her life, why would he be having sex with other girls if he was do dang good to her? I am sure many agree with you JM. Right, he was the self pronounced person who saved her life, oh pooh! Nona seemed to be a strong person and we will never know just how many people she could have helped, possibly saved herself, I could see Nona doing this, Kevin - NO not at all!

agreed. KJ self appointed SAVIOR! even his mommy threw a similar comment into 48 hrs about how much kevin did for Nona. i think Nona was weak at the first of their relationship due to childhood experience and KJ preyed on that. in that case, the whole strengthening within Nona was not something KJ was willing to deal with. he seems to me to need all the credit and power. IMO once she didn't need that from him, it was "well we'll see about that!"
i believe Nona's story is helping people. hopefully young women who are currently victimized by abuse will see her story and find a way to get out of that situation. i think her message is quite powerful. i believe she is looking down from heaven and seeing it. i wonder, for example, how her Little Sis is doing.

[hawgustusgloop]

agreed. KJ self appointed SAVIOR! even his mommy threw a similar comment into 48 hrs about how much kevin did for Nona. i think Nona was weak at the first of their relationship due to childhood experience and KJ preyed on that. in that case, the whole strengthening within Nona was not something KJ was willing to deal with. he seems to me to need all the credit and power. IMO once she didn't need that from him, it was "well we'll see about that!"
i believe Nona's story is helping people. hopefully young women who are currently victimized by abuse will see her story and find a way to get out of that situation. i think her message is quite powerful. i believe she is looking down from heaven and seeing it. i wonder, for example, how her Little Sis is doing.

Wouldn't a "normal" person who was close to Nona be more inclined to say, "She really came a long way in overcoming her past. She really worked at it and was doing so well. She was really becoming a stronger person, and I'm so proud of her for it"?

You see people on the news sometimes who pull someone out of a burning building or sinking car, truly saving that person's life, and they are hesitant to take the credit, saying they were just doing their jobs or just doing what anyone else would do.

[guppie]

Thank you for numbering it for this poor ol' ignorant hillbilly:)

I don't know Kevin, you do not know Kevin, no one here claims to know Kevin. You diagnose and condemn him from edited snippets of interviews, 911 calls, and interrogations. I do not dispute facts, but your interpretation of facts.

I "defend" Kevin because there is "nothing of substance' from the trial or in this forum that convicts him.

You have a "passion" for this case because of your past experiences with bf abuse. I have a passion for the truth. There is a viscious, deranged murderer in my community and I want him off the streets.

once again, you still give no substance to your argument on behalf of KJ and his character. i clearly stated and even numbered (not because i am insulting your intelligence but because it's easier to read) my observations. i am open to hear from anyone disputing each thing i observed from KJ himself. so far, nada!
i see so many things that point to him as abusive, controlling, manipulative, etc. i am simply asking for someone who is so convinced he is innocent to explain WHY! no one that defends him has anything of substance to say on his behalf. it strikes me that maybe this is because that there isn't much you can say.
i don't believe i have ever asserted there was an overwhelming amount of physical or forensic evidence. what i have asserted is my opinion that there are mounds of circumstantial and behavioral things in this case which i clearly outlined in many posts. kevin exhibited these traits to me.
can you please let me know why you disagree? maybe you could convince me i am totalling wrong about him. you haven't even tried. no one has. i would love a list because maybe i got the wrong impression from him on some things. no one can seem to defend his personality and behavior. do you not agree that things i listed lead to crimes such a this?

[guppie]

Wouldn't a "normal" person who was close to Nona be more inclined to say, "She really came a long way in overcoming her past. She really worked at it and was doing so well. She was really becoming a stronger person, and I'm so proud of her for it"?

You see people on the news sometimes who pull someone out of a burning building or sinking car, truly saving that person's life, and they are hesitant to take the credit, saying they were just doing their jobs or just doing what anyone else would do.

bingo. he seems to love taking that credit, ehh?

[lorettalockhorn]

Agree. His statement that Nona met him and he pretty much saved her is sickening. Whether he killed her or not. Had she lived or died.

For any murderer to say such a thing about his victim is ironic at the least.

[guppie]

Now, one scenario with Jones the killer.

Jones goes to Nona's apartment after she returns from her morning test. They go to her bedroom and undress. Jones finds a condom wrapper and confronts Nona about it. They argue and Nona walks down the stairs followed by Jones. He places the condom wrapper on the counter and the argument becomes physical, eventually resulting in her death.

He turns off the light, leaving blood on the switch, and looks out the window to see if anyone is outside. He locks the deadbolt and turns the light back on. He goes to the back sliding door and pulls back the blinds with the back of his hand, no fingerprints but leaving blood traces, to see if anyone is out there. He goes to the kitchen to wash the blood off himself in the sink and leaves blood traces in the kitchen. He deletes any incriminating evidence on Nona's phone and removes the battery to make sure it’s deleted. He leaves the phone, remembering cell phones can be tracked, and decides to take the battery with him so no one can replace it before the trace charge depletes.

He puts his clothes on, no blood on them, and again checks the front for any possible witnesses. After deciding it would be more likely to be recognized going out the front, he goes to the back sliding glass door and looks for oncoming traffic from W. 12 and S. Inglewood. The coast is clear. He picks up the stick, oops fingerprints, and decides to take it with him. After checking to see if anyone is in the back of the apartments, he opens the sliding door, puts the latch in lock position, steps out and slides the door shut, locking it. He walks between the buildings housing apt. 12 and 13, checking again for witnesses. He proceeds to his car and leaves.

Some variation of this is possible. The trial should bring out all of the missing details and will hopefully pinpoint the killer.

was reading through some old posts. i wondered what this meant (bolded part)? can you explain about the cell phone battery? what is the purpose of a "trace charge depletion?"

[guppie]

IMO the PA focused too much on the bloody palm print and not enough on building motive. Again, I was not present for any of the trial, and like most of you, are relying mostly on what was reported through the media.

Yes, there are people that could have testified to an emotionally abusive relationship. If there is a civil trial, this may well be touched on more. (As always, don't just take my word for it, do your own investigating). ~ FD

this old post is put so well, FD. i hope Solo reads this. this case is so reminiscent of OJ to me.

[jeremiads]

was reading through some old posts. i wondered what this meant (bolded part)? can you explain about the cell phone battery? what is the purpose of a "trace charge depletion?"It means nothing unless we know the exact model of Nona's cell phone. Solo's post regarding any sort of deleting and removing the battery to make sure things are deleted assume that all cell phones work like that, which isn't the case.

Most devices moved away from volatile storage for data a long time ago because it is not the best idea for consumers. The only sure reason for removing Nona's cell phone battery was to prevent her from using the phone after the killer left.

[FDInLaw]

It means nothing unless we know the exact model of Nona's cell phone. Solo's post regarding any sort of deleting and removing the battery to make sure things are deleted assume that all cell phones work like that, which isn't the case.

Most devices moved away from volatile storage for data a long time ago because it is not the best idea for consumers. The only sure reason for removing Nona's cell phone battery was to prevent her from using the phone after the killer left.
The missing battery is a detail I've always found chilling. . . Nona's murderer wanted her dead. It was no accident, and steps like this make that clear. :rose:

[jonikay]

They tried to contact me and left me a voicemail sometime in November or December. I didn't call them back because I didn't want anything to do with the show, because I don't have any faith in these shows that claim to be investigative journalism when they aren't anything but soap operas culled from real life instead of scripts.

About a week before the show was to air, I went ahead and sent an e-mail to the same person who called me and ended up talking to her. I told her my involvement. She seemed to agree with me that Kevin's team releasing this "DNA match" right before the show had interesting timing. She also had a laugh with me that, from a PR standpoint, releasing that information the day after the tornadoes here in Arkansas was horrible.

She said that she had to warn me that they used video footage of me, but that my voice was distorted and my face was blurred. She claimed that there was a large internal debate about whether to use the footage, and that was the compromise they came to. She wouldn't tell me then what I was talking about on in the footage.

I honestly was in too much shock that she even had that footage to begin with to say much about it. I'm still incredibly frustrated that the footage was aired, and I'm going to start pressing hard if I don't get a definite answer from someone on who released it. Running that footage without my permission is absolutely disgraceful.
You should press hard because Nona's case has always been about shedding a negative light on RPD and their investigation, but it is my opinion that the defense team has done more than their fair share of unfair actions, such as slander and libel, two things that are absolutely illegal. They SHOULD NOT be allowed to get away with this at all. Implicating you and others in a murder is too far out there for me and it makes me think they are really hiding something. This part: the slander, the libel, the 48 Hours show, the timing . . . they all just sicken me.

Sorry to get off the subject.

[jeremiads]

Thanks for that, jk. I completely agree with you.

As for being off-topic, I don't think the tactics of a legal team should ever be off-topic.

[sololobo]

was reading through some old posts. i wondered what this meant (bolded part)? can you explain about the cell phone battery? what is the purpose of a "trace charge depletion?"

Bump

Located in the deep dark recesses of those three pound owner's manuals that come with cell phones, are instructions to delete info for that particular cell phone. The info Dipert deleted was, more than likely, easy to delete. Addresses, phone numbers, text messages, etc. Being a teenager, Nona's SIM card was probably bulging with info and Dipert probably deleted some of it just to make it easier to find his own info. I doubt anything sinister in his actions.

A easy way to delete the info on RAM memory is to remove the power source for a time. RAM memory is volitile meaning it must have a power supply. Most phones have a power down feature that shows the battery is dead and the phone is not usable but there is still a small amount of charge protecting the RAM. Also they have a trace charge independent of the battery to protect the RAM if you have to remove the battery for any reason. This doesn't last long. If you don't care what you are deleting, removing the battery for a time will erase the RAM effectively.

The SIM card is similiar to a PC's hard drive as FD pointed out. It is a non-volitale memory. It is not affected by power loss and info on it must be over-written several times to be completely erased. (Standards for government computers dictate six over-writes to destroy sensitive info.) Dipert's mere use of the phone would be over-writing deleted info.

This was a scenerio before the trial. We knew few details at that time:). In this scenerio, I assumed there was info in the RAM Kevin wanted to delete. Depending on the make and model, some info was stored in RAM and some on the SIM card.

[sololobo]

It means nothing unless we know the exact model of Nona's cell phone. Solo's post regarding any sort of deleting and removing the battery to make sure things are deleted assume that all cell phones work like that, which isn't the case.

Most devices moved away from volatile storage for data a long time ago because it is not the best idea for consumers. The only sure reason for removing Nona's cell phone battery was to prevent her from using the phone after the killer left.

I also assumed her door had a deadbolt in this scenerio:) Was the make and model of the cell phone revealed during the trial, anyone? I believe someone who was there described it as an older phone.

That was only one possible explanation for the missing battery. We discussed many reasons before the trial. And we still don't know why the battery was taken.

I tend to discount the killer took it to keep her from calling for help after he left but it is possible. If he thought she might revive enough to use the phone, I believe he would have thought she might also crawl to the door or yell for help. I think the killer knew she was dead. And I really don't believe the battery was removed to erase the RAM. I'm more inclined to believe the battery was knocked out of the phone during the struggle and the killer pocketed it, rendering the phone useless before he killed her.

[jeremiads]

I'm more inclined to believe the battery was knocked out of the phone during the struggle and the killer pocketed it, rendering the phone useless before he killed her.I understand where you're coming from on everything until I get to this point. I don't think it's completely implausible, but I would imagine that if it were for this reason, that both the phone and battery would have been taken.

Then again, it's really hard to even speculate on this particular bit for obvious reasons.

[reesesandacoke]

Hi, I don't post often but read daily! My thoughts about this battery for the cell phone go like this... Nona and her killer are having an argument over something, the argument gets physical, Nona grabs cell phone to call for help, the killer yanks cell phone from Nona and rips the battery out and puts in pocket and continues the fight with Nona. This seems like the most logical reason why the cell phone battery would be missing.

Thomas
squidoo.com/nonadirksmeyer

[reesesandacoke]

I apologize Jeremy, just trying to give the lens some content. Maybe it is in bad taste? Should I remove your name? You were a possible suspect at one time and there may be people out there that feel you could have done it. I wasn't really thinking of any evidence when I made the poll. Just names that were mentioned as suspects, either officially or by rumor. I am not trying to ruffle any feathers with that squidoo lens, thats for sure.
I would be happy to remove the whole poll if people feel it is bad taste.
Thomas

[FDInLaw]

I apologize Jeremy, just trying to give the lens some content. Maybe it is in bad taste? Should I remove your name? You were a possible suspect at one time and there may be people out there that feel you could have done it. I wasn't really thinking of any evidence when I made the poll. Just names that were mentioned as suspects, either officially or by rumor. I am not trying to ruffle any feathers with that squidoo lens, thats for sure.
I would be happy to remove the whole poll if people feel it is bad taste.
ThomasDid you remove the poll? I don't see it.

[lorettalockhorn]

I never saw it, guess he added it after giving us the url and now has removed it. :shrug: Interesting that Susan52 seems to think that it is a fingerprint that has been identified on the condom wrapper.

The poll is/was a bad idea unless the choices are KJ and/or other. IMO

[ifIwereU]

I never saw it, guess he added it after giving us the url and now has removed it. :shrug: Interesting that Susan52 seems to think that it is a fingerprint that has been identified on the condom wrapper.

The poll is/was a bad idea unless the choices are KJ and/or other. IMO


I did see the poll and only two votes were cast...one of which was mine...I'll let you guess as to who I think did it....the other pollster voted for "neighbor".....DD did not make the list...

[jeremiads]

I apologize Jeremy, just trying to give the lens some content. Maybe it is in bad taste? Should I remove your name? You were a possible suspect at one time and there may be people out there that feel you could have done it. I wasn't really thinking of any evidence when I made the poll. Just names that were mentioned as suspects, either officially or by rumor. I am not trying to ruffle any feathers with that squidoo lens, thats for sure.
I would be happy to remove the whole poll if people feel it is bad taste.
ThomasHere's the problem with "suspect" being thrown around so lightly. Do you want to know why I was a "suspect"? It's because I had been around Nona in the first half of 2005, and I had lies and fingers pointed at me by a defense team.

No evidence. No smoking gun. Nothing.

"Suspect" means absolutely nothing to me anymore unless there is evidence supporting it.

[ifIwereU]

Here's the problem with "suspect" being thrown around so lightly. Do you want to know why I was a "suspect"? It's because I had been around Nona in the first half of 2005, and I had lies and fingers pointed at me by a defense team.

No evidence. No smoking gun. Nothing.

"Suspect" means absolutely nothing to me anymore unless there is evidence supporting it.

the term SUSPECT: Police departments across the nation don't even use that word unless they have creditable evidence implicating someone....a PD came up with the term "person of interest".....now you rarely hear suspect unless they have been charged. Which jones was.....so I feel comfortable calling him a suspect!

[jeremiads]

the term SUSPECT: Police departments across the nation don't even use that word unless they have creditable evidence implicating someone....a PD came up with the term "person of interest".....now you rarely hear suspect unless they have been charged. Which jones was.....so I feel comfortable calling him a suspect!Yeah, basically. I challenge anyone to find proof that I was ever an actual, viable suspect and nothing more than a "person of interest" due to absolute lies.

[optimumprimal78]

Just bumping this post CH made.

But what about all that stuff where CH says her and Nona were best friends and not as close to Kevin and so on. :rolleyes: Give me a break. She is a prime example of all of Nona's friends that bailed on her after her death.

Some of you might be able to explain this to me. If she was talking to KJ for hours after it happened then couldn't she have possibly been withholding information in regarding the search for a killer (even if it wasn't KJ)? He had to have played out all of the scenarios (i.e. what ifs, maybe it was, etc.) over the phone at some point. You would think that out of all of that she could have helped more in the investigation if Nona was her true friend instead of "comforting" Kevin.

BTW can someone remind me what she said during the interview that was shown on 48 hours? Or can we get transcripts of what was said in that interview?

[hawgustusgloop]

But what about all that stuff where CH says her and Nona were best friends and not as close to Kevin and so on. :rolleyes: Give me a break. She is a prime example of all of Nona's friends that bailed on her after her death.

Some of you might be able to explain this to me. If she was talking to KJ for hours after it happened then couldn't she have possibly been withholding information in regarding the search for a killer (even if it wasn't KJ)? He had to have played out all of the scenarios (i.e. what ifs, maybe it was, etc.) over the phone at some point. You would think that out of all of that she could have helped more in the investigation if Nona was her true friend instead of "comforting" Kevin.

BTW can someone remind me what she said during the interview that was shown on 48 hours? Or can we get transcripts of what was said in that interview?

Apparently I am a masochist, because I watched this show again for the third time last night. CH said she NEVER saw Nona and Kevin fight. To me, this kind of flies in the face of what Adrielle said about Nona raising her voice to Kevin but Kevin not raising his voice to Nona. Did Adrielle know them better than CH, who was supposedly best friends with both of them?

[optimumprimal78]

Apparently I am a masochist, because I watched this show again for the third time last night. CH said she NEVER saw Nona and Kevin fight. To me, this kind of flies in the face of what Adrielle said about Nona raising her voice to Kevin but Kevin not raising his voice to Nona. Did Adrielle know them better than CH, who was supposedly best friends with both of them?

I was under the impression that she just knew her from pageants and was a couple of years older than Nona. Also, I think she went to the U of A, so could she really be that close to Nona if she was up at school and doing pageants? I don't really know.

[ifIwereU]

I was under the impression that she just knew her from pageants and was a couple of years older than Nona. Also, I think she went to the U of A, so could she really be that close to Nona if she was up at school and doing pageants? I don't really know.

Like you, I don't really know either, but I don't think Nona and Adreile were that close, I think the 48 hours folks chose to interivew her because of the "beauty queen" angle. I think if they had been close, I think the prosecution would have chose to use her.....like CH, I think AC abandoned Nona to stick by Jones....so many people have forgotten that this case was about Nona's death and not about Kevin Jones....
even the defense with their "showboating" (as Loretta likes to call it) never made it about finding Nona's killer....it was about being able to say Jones didn't do it....that saddens me....

[ifIwereU]

Yeah, basically. I challenge anyone to find proof that I was ever an actual, viable suspect and nothing more than a "person of interest" due to absolute lies.


after seeing reesesandacoke post and poll regarding "suspects"...i wasn't aware that any names other than jones had been released...I never saw a list of names of who the RPD eliminated or alibi'd, doesn't seem like something they would do either.....the list, IMO, must have been from rumors or flat out guess work....kinda like what the defense did....
based on my knowledge of the case....trey york could have been a suspect just from the timing of the the text message he sent...doesn't mean he killed her, just that generally the last person known to have contact with the deceased is always someone police want to talk to...see any law & order episode for reference.
As far as any other "suspect" goes....all the names i have seen on this thread IMO aren't really "suspect"...they are just people Nona was intimate with and by association needed to be questioned.....now they could have shown behaviorial clues following the death or during questioning that would make RPD more suspicious but to my knowledge none of that has been released...if I missed it someone please tell me where to look. I know RPD made a media release where people were questioned and polygraphed and all but one failed...they never mentioned a name at that time but everyone figured it out following his arrest. (or before if you paid attention)....
I said all that to say this....JM only you know if the RPD considered you a suspect....no one on here knows the questions they asked and in the manner they were asked.....we know the defense pointed the biased finger at you because they had to find someone else to hang it on (they couldn't say it was Jnes)....but in the end it was TY who would walk away with the cloud of suspicison....sure wish he would break his silence like you and shed some light.....

[jonikay]

after seeing reesesandacoke post and poll regarding "suspects"...i wasn't aware that any names other than jones had been released...I never saw a list of names of who the RPD eliminated or alibi'd, doesn't seem like something they would do either.....the list, IMO, must have been from rumors or flat out guess work....kinda like what the defense did....
based on my knowledge of the case....trey york could have been a suspect just from the timing of the the text message he sent...doesn't mean he killed her, just that generally the last person known to have contact with the deceased is always someone police want to talk to...see any law & order episode for reference.
As far as any other "suspect" goes....all the names i have seen on this thread IMO aren't really "suspect"...they are just people Nona was intimate with and by association needed to be questioned.....now they could have shown behaviorial clues following the death or during questioning that would make RPD more suspicious but to my knowledge none of that has been released...if I missed it someone please tell me where to look. I know RPD made a media release where people were questioned and polygraphed and all but one failed...they never mentioned a name at that time but everyone figured it out following his arrest. (or before if you paid attention)....
I said all that to say this....JM only you know if the RPD considered you a suspect....no one on here knows the questions they asked and in the manner they were asked.....we know the defense pointed the biased finger at you because they had to find someone else to hang it on (they couldn't say it was Jnes)....but in the end it was TY who would walk away with the cloud of suspicison....sure wish he would break his silence like you and shed some light.....
The text message that Trey sent was never opened on the phone. They used this as part of the timeline to narrow the time of death. The thought is that Nona was not alive at the time Trey sent the text message at 11:04, I believe.

[reesesandacoke]

I did remove to poll. Jeremy didn't ask me too or anything, but I think the poll wasn't well thought out on my part, that is my fault and again I want to apologize to you Jeremy.

I am certainly not trying to offend anyone with that page on Squidoo. I just thought that this poor young girl deserved a spot on that site, so I made the page in honor of her.

[lorettalockhorn]

after seeing reesesandacoke post and poll regarding "suspects"...i wasn't aware that any names other than jones had been released...I never saw a list of names of who the RPD eliminated or alibi'd, doesn't seem like something they would do either.....the list, IMO, must have been from rumors or flat out guess work....kinda like what the defense did....
based on my knowledge of the case....trey york could have been a suspect just from the timing of the the text message he sent...doesn't mean he killed her, just that generally the last person known to have contact with the deceased is always someone police want to talk to...see any law & order episode for reference.
As far as any other "suspect" goes....all the names i have seen on this thread IMO aren't really "suspect"...they are just people Nona was intimate with and by association needed to be questioned.....now they could have shown behaviorial clues following the death or during questioning that would make RPD more suspicious but to my knowledge none of that has been released...if I missed it someone please tell me where to look. I know RPD made a media release where people were questioned and polygraphed and all but one failed...they never mentioned a name at that time but everyone figured it out following his arrest. (or before if you paid attention)....
I said all that to say this....JM only you know if the RPD considered you a suspect....no one on here knows the questions they asked and in the manner they were asked.....we know the defense pointed the biased finger at you because they had to find someone else to hang it on (they couldn't say it was Jnes)....but in the end it was TY who would walk away with the cloud of suspicison....sure wish he would break his silence like you and shed some light.....

I never saw the names of any suspects named by RPD or the State; for Jeremy's name to have been noted in The Courier is a good example of how KJ's attorneys were irresponsible. While they did have the responsibility of putting on a vigorous defense, they went too far in naming him. That reese would use Jeremy's name in his poll solidifies that for me.
I would like to see the defense cited for contempt in leaking the so-called DNA match information to 48 Hours. And Robbins' press release makes me feel that they are responsible for giving all of the other information (except for what Phillips owned up to) to CBS as well. The only reason that I can imagine for them behaving in such a manner, is because the evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, points to Kevin.
I'm disappointed that the judge didn't put the kibosh on the defense after the first time they named JM to the press as well as him not allowing KJ's philandering to be testified to. I haven't seen a victim so victimized in court in my memory.

[FDInLaw]

I did remove to poll. Jeremy didn't ask me too or anything, but I think the poll wasn't well thought out on my part, that is my fault and again I want to apologize to you Jeremy.

I am certainly not trying to offend anyone with that page on Squidoo. I just thought that this poor young girl deserved a spot on that site, so I made the page in honor of her.It was kind of you to set up the site. :seeya:

For Nona. . . :rose: :rose: :rose:

[lorettalockhorn]

Question for reese; are you also the poster known as neutattoo? If so, is there some reason (that I can't fathom) that you have two screennames?

[reesesandacoke]

Yes I am that person, I made a new screen name because I couldn't remember my password for that user name.

I do think a little too much is coming about from that poll. I have removed it. I didn't get the names off any list, I simply made the poll and tried to think of any name that had been mentioned in the news or even by rumor. I did apologize to the offended party for the poll and I hope everyone can forgive me for disrupting the conversation about this case.

Plus I am not trying to be shady by posting under a different name, I just couldn't remember my user name or password for the old account. Forums are really my thing.

Thomas

[reesesandacoke]

It was kind of you to set up the site. :seeya:

For Nona. . . :rose: :rose: :rose:It was my pleasure! I have fun working on pages at squidoo! That page generates an income from adsense ads and all that money will go to The Liberty Foundation! So you can feel good about yourself to just for looking at the page!

I kind of regret posting the link now, I wasn't expecting any of this attention.

[lorettalockhorn]

From the FAQS section of CL: I lost my password, what can I do?
If you forget your password, you can click on the 'Forgotten Your Password' link on any page that requires you to fill in your password.

This will bring up a page where you should enter your registered email address, and an email will be sent to that address instantly, with instructions for resetting your password.

[reesesandacoke]

Can we please get back on discussion about the case.

I think the battery from the cell phone was pocketed by the killer during a struggle. I'm thinking Nona was probably trying to call for help during the struggle and her killer yanked the phone from her and ripped out the battery.

[JustCallMeNora]

Here's the problem with "suspect" being thrown around so lightly. Do you want to know why I was a "suspect"? It's because I had been around Nona in the first half of 2005, and I had lies and fingers pointed at me by a defense team.

No evidence. No smoking gun. Nothing.

"Suspect" means absolutely nothing to me anymore unless there is evidence supporting it.

Were you not one of the original 40 or 50 people questioned?

[lorettalockhorn]

Were you not one of the original 40 or 50 people questioned?

Are you intimating that there were forty or fifty suspects to this crime?

[hawgustusgloop]

Were you not one of the original 40 or 50 people questioned?

Is JCMN suggesting that everyone who was questioned was a suspect? Wasn't Nona's mom likely questioned about who may have committed the crime? Didn't they ask Nona's "Little" about phone calls? Surely they aren't considered suspects by any stretch of the imagination. JM has seemed pretty open about being questioned all along, so what are you trying to say? But what do I know? Maybe JCMN has found some magically delicious out-of-state links to back up whatever it is she is trying to assert.

[JustCallMeNora]

Is JCMN suggesting that everyone who was questioned was a suspect? Wasn't Nona's mom likely questioned about who may have committed the crime? Didn't they ask Nona's "Little" about phone calls? Surely they aren't considered suspects by any stretch of the imagination. JM has seemed pretty open about being questioned all along, so what are you trying to say? But what do I know? Maybe JCMN has found some magically delicious out-of-state links to back up whatever it is she is trying to assert.

No that wasn't at all what I was saying. My point was that it wasn't the defense who brought him into it.

My out of state quest for info. is just as magically delicious as your out of state quest.

[hawgustusgloop]

No that wasn't at all what I was saying. My point was that it wasn't the defense who brought him into it.

My out of state quest for info. is just as magically delicious as your out of state quest.

Are you suggesting that it was RPD that chose to publicly cast suspicion on JM, who was so obviously cleared?

[lorettalockhorn]

No that wasn't at all what I was saying. My point was that it wasn't the defense who brought him into it.

My out of state quest for info. is just as magically delicious as your out of state quest.

Do you have a link for that information? How do you know that the defense or KJ or any of KJ's supporters did or did not bring JM into it? Oh, I forgot, you don't adhere to TOS and provide links for your assertions. My bad.

To the best of my recollection, RPD never named any suspects until Kevin was arrested.

[jeremiads]

My point was that it wasn't the defense who brought him into it.Was I questioned early on? Of course I was. I imagine most people who had any sort of connection to Nona were questioned. However, claiming that the defense didn't bring me into it is a hell of a way to split hairs.

In fact, I don't think you can split hairs. The people who pointed any sort of fingers at me were with the defense the entire time, and when the real shady accusations and lies came, they were given to the investigators by the defense.

Who claimed I was lying to the police? Who tried to use everything they could to make me look like a bad person to the investigators? Who suggested that the music I listened to made me suspect? Who handed instant messaging conversations that were logged between me and Nona on a PC Kevin had loaned to her? Who then used small bits of those conversations to suggest that I was suspect (conversations, I might add, from six months or before the murder)?

I could keep going on, but I think you should get the point. If your answer to any of those questions is anything other than the defense team... you're wrong.

Rant off.

[optimumprimal78]

Since we have been discussing possible suspects, who would you all have liked to seen actually give testimony at the trial? Why? What you think they would offer? And how you would have handled it if you were the one doing the questioning?

Also, does anyone know if the actual investigation interviews will be released for the public? I think it would be interesting to see what some of the people had to say.

Sorry for the questions. I would have asked them at some point sooner but I've been way too busy lately to get on here and ask them.

:seeya:

[ifIwereU]

Was I questioned early on? Of course I was. I imagine most people who had any sort of connection to Nona were questioned. However, claiming that the defense didn't bring me into it is a hell of a way to split hairs.

In fact, I don't think you can split hairs. The people who pointed any sort of fingers at me were with the defense the entire time, and when the real shady accusations and lies came, they were given to the investigators by the defense.

Who claimed I was lying to the police? Who tried to use everything they could to make me look like a bad person to the investigators? Who suggested that the music I listened to made me suspect? Who handed instant messaging conversations that were logged between me and Nona on a PC Kevin had loaned to her? Who then used small bits of those conversations to suggest that I was suspect (conversations, I might add, from six months or before the murder)?

I could keep going on, but I think you should get the point. If your answer to any of those questions is anything other than the defense team... you're wrong.

Rant off.


I think RPD contacting you to obtain ANY information was the right thing to do...its the way the defense handled themselves with regard to that information that I find dispicable....
I'm glad you're here to keep us straight!! and to help seperate the truth from the lies (especially where you are concerned) I don't know that any of us know what was going on with the investigation...its one thing to get on here and speculate but you actually existed in the nightmare and I hope that i never know what that feels like! I know that even though you and Nona were no longer seeing each other "romantically" I bet you still felt a tremendous loss in her death. I wish you Godspeed!

[ifIwereU]

Since we have been discussing possible suspects, who would you all have liked to seen actually give testimony at the trial? Why? What you think they would offer? And how you would have handled it if you were the one doing the questioning?

Also, does anyone know if the actual investigation interviews will be released for the public? I think it would be interesting to see what some of the people had to say.

Sorry for the questions. I would have asked them at some point sooner but I've been way too busy lately to get on here and ask them.

:seeya:

well, my list maybe to long for me to delve into tonight, but as far as releasing the interviews, I don't think that will happened since the case has been reactivated. and I agree that the information contained in the interviews will be interesting. I would like to see JOnes interogation the night of the visitation....I would like to see & hear how he responded to being told his print was on the bulb.....did he deny touching it? say "gee fellas I don't remember touching it? or did he make excuses or try to deflect the allegations?.....that's what I want to see. the short clips played on 48 hours really spiked by curiosity. There must have been something on that video that scared the prosecution for them not to show it to the jury. I bet if they had a "do-over" they would have played it, JMO.....

[jeremiads]

well, my list maybe to long for me to delve into tonight, but as far as releasing the interviews, I don't think that will happened since the case has been reactivated. and I agree that the information contained in the interviews will be interesting.I know you are mainly referencing videos of KJ, but naturally I have a big problem with all interviews being released. For example, I don't think anybody had the right to release my interview footage to a major media company to use, especially considering my lack of involvement in this case.

I've mostly thought that the investigators and prosecution did a good job denying Kevin's legal team with information about me that they had no right to have, but with the video being released, there's been a major breach in that trust.

I honestly do not want to think that someone on the prosecution side of things leaked that video, either by mistake or on purpose.

On the other hand, seeing Robbins' non-denial in the Courier over released information further shows why I cannot trust anything the man says, when combined with his ridiculous phone call to me where he claimed that I was brought wrongly into the case and I didn't have a hell of a lot to do with Nona's death.

I haven't been pressing for it hard, but if someone doesn't fess up to it, I'll start. I don't know what I can do, but I have to know something.

[lorettalockhorn]

Good luck to you; maybe McQuary's investigation will answer a lot of questions for everyone. People need to know that when they cooperate with the authorities that they won't be slandered and libeled and put behind the eightball by information leaks that are meant to serve an indicted defendant.

[guppie]

The text message that Trey sent was never opened on the phone. They used this as part of the timeline to narrow the time of death. The thought is that Nona was not alive at the time Trey sent the text message at 11:04, I believe.

i thought the text at 11:04am was opened but not responded to (like someone else may have opened it instead of nona???) i thought it was the later in the afternoon "nevermind" text that was never opened. is this correct?

[guppie]

I know you are mainly referencing videos of KJ, but naturally I have a big problem with all interviews being released. For example, I don't think anybody had the right to release my interview footage to a major media company to use, especially considering my lack of involvement in this case.
I've mostly thought that the investigators and prosecution did a good job denying Kevin's legal team with information about me that they had no right to have, but with the video being released, there's been a major breach in that trust.

I honestly do not want to think that someone on the prosecution side of things leaked that video, either by mistake or on purpose.

On the other hand, seeing Robbins' non-denial in the Courier over released information further shows why I cannot trust anything the man says, when combined with his ridiculous phone call to me where he claimed that I was brought wrongly into the case and I didn't have a hell of a lot to do with Nona's death.

I haven't been pressing for it hard, but if someone doesn't fess up to it, I'll start. I don't know what I can do, but I have to know something.

difference is KJ wants his 15 minutes of fame. i agree that the interview with you should not have been released but KJ apparently signed on for that. he dressed up, got a makeover, and thought he was charming the national audience. seriously, this guy is all about himself. i think i just threw up a little in my mouth. disgusting.

[guppie]

This is a fascinating case. The 21 yr old son bludgeoned his parents with an axe while they were sleeping. His mom actually lived!
There was a lot of circumstantial evidence but no physical evidence. Sound familiar?
He was convicted...50 yrs. Difference: the prosecutor went for 2nd degree murder, not first, in the killing of the father. Makes you wonder why the prosecutor did not do this in KJ's case.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/family/christopher_porco/1_index.html

[guppie]

I also assumed her door had a deadbolt in this scenerio:) Was the make and model of the cell phone revealed during the trial, anyone? I believe someone who was there described it as an older phone.

That was only one possible explanation for the missing battery. We discussed many reasons before the trial. And we still don't know why the battery was taken.

I tend to discount the killer took it to keep her from calling for help after he left but it is possible. If he thought she might revive enough to use the phone, I believe he would have thought she might also crawl to the door or yell for help. I think the killer knew she was dead. And I really don't believe the battery was removed to erase the RAM. I'm more inclined to believe the battery was knocked out of the phone during the struggle and the killer pocketed it, rendering the phone useless before he killed her.

so are you saying "premeditation?" (first degree murder) i tend to think the jury may have voted differently (at least hung) if this had been a second-degree murder trial. i just don't think they saw pre-meditation enough to convict on 1st.
i am entertaining your phone battery theory as an alternative to removing the battery after the fatal blow. definitely could have happened that way especially if KJ saw that text come in from trey, went ballistic, and threw the phone. battery pops out, he pockets it to keep her from using the phone prior to the attack. then it goes from there. your scenario works.

[ifIwereU]

so are you saying "premeditation?" (first degree murder) i tend to think the jury may have voted differently (at least hung) if this had been a second-degree murder trial. i just don't think they saw pre-meditation enough to convict on 1st.
i am entertaining your phone battery theory as an alternative to removing the battery after the fatal blow. definitely could have happened that way especially if KJ saw that text come in from trey, went ballistic, and threw the phone. battery pops out, he pockets it to keep her from using the phone prior to the attack. then it goes from there. your scenario works.

my understanding of the First Degree Murder statute does not mean it has to be premeditated...the offender has to "purposefully" cause the death of another person whereas 2nd degree indicates doing something "showing extreme indifference to the value of human life".....I don't think the degree would have mattered to this jury...they would not have convicted him regardless of which charge you put before them, JMO...mainly because it was the prosecution that said it...they chose to disbelieve the all the prosecution witnesses.....and must have felt all the defense witness were non-lying christians....all about perception...

the perpertrator in this case used at least three different mechinisims to cause harm to Nona...which definately indicates the "purpose" which was ulitimately to kill her

5-10-102. Murder in the first degree.
(a) A person commits murder in the first degree if:

(1) Acting alone or with one (1) or more other persons:

(A) The person commits or attempts to commit a felony; and

(B) In the course of and in the furtherance of the felony or in immediate flight from the felony, the person or an accomplice causes the death of any person under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life;

(2) With a purpose of causing the death of another person, the person causes the death of another person; or

5-10-103. Murder in the second degree.
(a) A person commits murder in the second degree if:

(1) The person knowingly causes the death of another person under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life; or

(2) With the purpose of causing serious physical injury to another person, the person causes the death of any person.

[WonderWoman]

Man! Things are quiet on here!! What happened??:shrug:

[FDInLaw]

Man! Things are quiet on here!! What happened??:shrug:
Why, is it not fun to lurk when nothing is going on (LOL)? :D

Don't worry, things will pick up again eventually.

JUSTICE FOR NONA! :rose:

[ifIwereU]

so are you saying "premeditation?" (first degree murder) i tend to think the jury may have voted differently (at least hung) if this had been a second-degree murder trial. i just don't think they saw pre-meditation enough to convict on 1st.
i am entertaining your phone battery theory as an alternative to removing the battery after the fatal blow. definitely could have happened that way especially if KJ saw that text come in from trey, went ballistic, and threw the phone. battery pops out, he pockets it to keep her from using the phone prior to the attack. then it goes from there. your scenario works.

If the evidence indicates this was rape & murder, I think you will see the offender charged with Capital Murder.....hypothetical: the knife wounds on the neck could have forced Nona into "sexual compliance" and therefore you would not see the signs of a sexual assault during an autopsy.

[FDInLaw]

If the evidence indicates this was rape & murder, I think you will see the offender charged with Capital Murder.....hypothetical: the knife wounds on the neck could have forced Nona into "sexual compliance" and therefore you would not see the signs of a sexual assault during an autopsy.You've lost me here. . . forcing someone to lie still and causing arousal are two very different things. Besides, doesn't consensual sex leave some physical evidence?

:read:

[CSOKC]

You've lost me here. . . forcing someone to lie still and causing arousal are two very different things. Besides, doesn't consensual sex leave some physical evidence?

:read:
I thought they just said there were no signs of rape?

[sweetgranny]

I thought the autopsy showed no signs of sexual activity of any kind since Monday or Tuesday:shrug:I remember thinking that it was amazing that it could be pinpointed like that.

[ifIwereU]

You've lost me here. . . forcing someone to lie still and causing arousal are two very different things. Besides, doesn't consensual sex leave some physical evidence?

:read:

the key word in my post was sexual "assault"....No brusiing or tearing of the vaginal or anal area...were present. I am simply pointing out a possiblity that if Nona were being held down by a man with a knife she might not have fought back and you would not see the same signs you might see if she was fighting back.
my gut has always felt it was jones; however I am just trying to consider and understand how this new evidence might be used to identify a new suspect.....because unfortuantely KJ can't be tried again and if the possibility exists that some one else could be I would rather use my time to focus on him rather than talking about Jones....sorry if that offends anyone.

[FDInLaw]

the key word in my post was sexual "assault"....No brusiing or tearing of the vaginal or anal area...were present. I am simply pointing out a possiblity that if Nona were being held down by a man with a knife she might not have fought back and you would not see the same signs you might see if she was fighting back.
my gut has always felt it was jones; however I am just trying to consider and understand how this new evidence might be used to identify a new suspect.....because unfortuantely KJ can't be tried again and if the possibility exists that some one else could be I would rather use my time to focus on him rather than talking about Jones....sorry if that offends anyone.It's not offensive in the least. . . just frustrating. Frustrating because as of now we are left to speculate about a phantom since we do not even know the identity of this possible suspect. I have tired of running through all the evidence to see how it fits KJ. . . we have all been through it a million or more times.

[FDInLaw]

Random thoughts and questions regarding the sex crime theory. . .

When the owner of the dna is made known (depending on who it is) this may all be moot, but just for discussion sake. . .

Been following the Brianna Denison case, and in it dna linked several rapes and her murder to one individual. I am wondering how likely it is that dna should be found if Nona was assaulted by a stranger. Some questions I would want answers for if was an investigator. . . does the person have a history of physical and/or sexual assault? Since Nona's panties were found on the scene, this perp does not take souvenirs (or, is it possible that he took something else?). The only semen found on the scene was Kevin's, but what about other physical evidence? Does this new suspect shave his pubic area? This may seem like a strange question, but in the Denison case the suspect is believed to. This might explain the absence of hair on the scene. Also, is the suspect able to perform sexually? Statistically, some sexual assaults are made by those that can't and thus all the tale tell signs of assault are not all there. I'd be wanting to talk with anyone that could answer these intimate questions. JMO

In my mind the evidence does not add up. One hurdle for me has been Nona's own behavior. Why didn't she fight back? In thinking about it more, yes this may suggest that she did know her killer. However, should another suspect emerge, I don't think it would be hard for the new PA to get a psychologist to testify to the likelihood that Nona may have gone into a numb state do to the years of sexual abuse she suffered. What bothers me about this whole scenario is that if she did go "numb" why wasn't a sexual assault successful? Seems to me that her killer wanted her dead, and that was his driving motive. The pieces are not fitting together for me to see this as a sex crime but I am trying to keep an open mind. Sure hope we will hear more details soon.

God speed to those investigating right now. Thank you for pursuing justice. :rose:

[Amy]

Certainly something to think about.

I didn't follow the other college student murder (Nora?) I think in LR, but @ the time I remember posters questioning whether or not the two were related, if there was a serial killer of college girls in the area. Surely the DNA was checked against anything in this other case.

But, there haven't been any other murders like these two, in that area, @ least that hit any big time news. It would seem unlikely a serial murder would up and quit. Unless he "moved on." But none of the college girl murders in other areas we have seen have the MO of killing them in their apartments---all the others I have read about have been more like abduction and shooting,

Which brings me back full circle that I think this was up close & personal w/Nona.

[FDInLaw]

Certainly something to think about.

I didn't follow the other college student murder (Nora?) I think in LR, but @ the time I remember posters questioning whether or not the two were related, if there was a serial killer of college girls in the area. Surely the DNA was checked against anything in this other case.

But, there haven't been any other murders like these two, in that area, @ least that hit any big time news. It would seem unlikely a serial murder would up and quit. Unless he "moved on." But none of the college girl murders in other areas we have seen have the MO of killing them in their apartments---all the others I have read about have been more like abduction and shooting,

Which brings me back full circle that I think this was up close & personal w/Nona.There is an unsolved case in Fayetteville. . . Nina Ingram. Found strangled in her apartment the spring after Nona's death. No sign of sexual assault in that case either. :read:

[ifIwereU]

Certainly something to think about.

I didn't follow the other college student murder (Nora?) I think in LR, but @ the time I remember posters questioning whether or not the two were related, if there was a serial killer of college girls in the area. Surely the DNA was checked against anything in this other case.

But, there haven't been any other murders like these two, in that area, @ least that hit any big time news. It would seem unlikely a serial murder would up and quit. Unless he "moved on." But none of the college girl murders in other areas we have seen have the MO of killing them in their apartments---all the others I have read about have been more like abduction and shooting,

Which brings me back full circle that I think this was up close & personal w/Nona.

serial killers can go through periods of "cooling off"....sometimes they don't attack because they have compliant partners at home willing to play out their sick fantasies....

The BTK (notorious serial killer from Kansas) went years without murdering

[ifIwereU]

There is an unsolved case in Fayetteville. . . Nina Ingram. Found strangled in her apartment the spring after Nona's death. No sign of sexual assault in that case either. :read:

that case has always puzzled me too....the name similarity was what struck me.....hard for me to believe it was a coincidence

[FDInLaw]

that case has always puzzled me too....the name similarity was what struck me.....hard for me to believe it was a coincidence
The name thing caught my eye too. Last word was that there was dna found, but nothing has been reported since. :(

[FDInLaw]

There is a thread for Nina Ingram on this site:

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=280694


Prayers for her family and loved ones, may they see justice served. :rose:

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm a little confused about the talk of sexual assault in Nona's case. Surely if there were signs of rape by instrumentation, the ME would have noticed and/or testified to that? I do believe that Nona knew her killer, even if it wasn't Kevin. And men can ejaculate even if they cannot achieve or maintain an erection. So I suppose it's possible that a stranger killer with shaved pubic area could have masturbated while wearing a condom and not left any semen or sperm. But why after such careful planning would he have left the condom wrapper in plain sight? And if he did assault Nona, what did he use? Did he leave it behind also? Suppose that the green sweater could have been the trophy; but certainly harder to walk away with than her panties. As far as Nona withdrawing into some state of catatonia, wouldn't the prosecutor have subpoenaed her psychiatrist to testify along those lines? At the very least, it would explain why Nona had no one's DNA under her nails (for instance), including KJ's.

Re: the identification of DNA in Nina Ingram's case; it's been quite some time since it was announced that it had been found. Are we to assume the perp isn't in the system? And speaking of new evidence; McQuary has had this case nigh on the time period that Gibbons did before Jones was indicted. Doesn't seem like a second investigation would take as long as the first.

RIP Nona and Nina.

[FDInLaw]

I'm a little confused about the talk of sexual assault in Nona's case. Surely if there were signs of rape by instrumentation, the ME would have noticed and/or testified to that? I do believe that Nona knew her killer, even if it wasn't Kevin. And men can ejaculate even if they cannot achieve or maintain an erection. So I suppose it's possible that a stranger killer with shaved pubic area could have masturbated while wearing a condom and not left any semen or sperm. But why after such careful planning would he have left the condom wrapper in plain sight? And if he did assault Nona, what did he use? Did he leave it behind also? Suppose that the green sweater could have been the trophy; but certainly harder to walk away with than her panties. As far as Nona withdrawing into some state of catatonia, wouldn't the prosecutor have subpoenaed her psychiatrist to testify along those lines? At the very least, it would explain why Nona had no one's DNA under her nails (for instance), including KJ's.

Re: the identification of DNA in Nina Ingram's case; it's been quite some time since it was announced that it had been found. Are we to assume the perp isn't in the system? And speaking of new evidence; McQuary has had this case nigh on the time period that Gibbons did before Jones was indicted. Doesn't seem like a second investigation would take as long as the first.

RIP Nona and Nina.Just trying to weigh the evidence from all possible angles.

The investigation is taking quite some time. I wonder when we will hear something? :shrug:


(Loretta, have you bought some chocolate easter bunnies at half price??? :biggrin: Don't make yourself sick! :seeya: )

[Amy]

There is an unsolved case in Fayetteville. . . Nina Ingram. Found strangled in her apartment the spring after Nona's death. No sign of sexual assault in that case either. :read:


Yes, that's the one. Thanks.

[lorettalockhorn]

Just trying to weigh the evidence from all possible angles.

The investigation is taking quite some time. I wonder when we will hear something? :shrug:


(Loretta, have you bought some chocolate easter bunnies at half price??? :biggrin: Don't make yourself sick! :seeya: )

Was there evidence that she had been assaulted other than the fact that she was nude? Could that not have been part of the staging?

mmm Chocolate, chocolate cheesecake with chocolate ganache, chocolate covered chocolate chips :tongue:

[Amy]

I'm a little confused about the talk of sexual assault in Nona's case. Surely if there were signs of rape by instrumentation, the ME would have noticed and/or testified to that? I do believe that Nona knew her killer, even if it wasn't Kevin. And men can ejaculate even if they cannot achieve or maintain an erection. So I suppose it's possible that a stranger killer with shaved pubic area could have masturbated while wearing a condom and not left any semen or sperm. But why after such careful planning would he have left the condom wrapper in plain sight? And if he did assault Nona, what did he use? Did he leave it behind also? Suppose that the green sweater could have been the trophy; but certainly harder to walk away with than her panties. As far as Nona withdrawing into some state of catatonia, wouldn't the prosecutor have subpoenaed her psychiatrist to testify along those lines? At the very least, it would explain why Nona had no one's DNA under her nails (for instance), including KJ's.

Re: the identification of DNA in Nina Ingram's case; it's been quite some time since it was announced that it had been found. Are we to assume the perp isn't in the system? And speaking of new evidence; McQuary has had this case nigh on the time period that Gibbons did before Jones was indicted. Doesn't seem like a second investigation would take as long as the first.

RIP Nona and Nina.


IMO, it could very well be there were no physical evidence of sexual assault because the assailant could NOT perform sexually. Which could have been why she was killed. He gets angry because he could not perform, so kills her, as it surely must be her fault. Or, he is so angry he takes out on what (or, in the case, who) is closest @ hand. But not go thru w/the assault by mechanical means.

[FDInLaw]

Was there evidence that she had been assaulted other than the fact that she was nude? Could that not have been part of the staging?

mmm Chocolate, chocolate cheesecake with chocolate ganache, chocolate covered chocolate chips :tongue:Maybe ifIwereU will get back on here and address your question. . . I've always seen the lack of clothes with no physical signs of sexual assault as a staging job. A crime of passion made to look like a sex crime. JMO

[FDInLaw]

IMO, it could very well be there were no physical evidence of sexual assault because the assailant could NOT perform sexually. Which could have been why she was killed. He gets angry because he could not perform, so kills her, as it surely must be her fault. Or, he is so angry he takes out on what (or, in the case, who) is closest @ hand. But not go thru w/the assault by mechanical means.
This is why finding out the sexual history would be key.

[ifIwereU]

Was there evidence that she had been assaulted other than the fact that she was nude? Could that not have been part of the staging?

mmm Chocolate, chocolate cheesecake with chocolate ganache, chocolate covered chocolate chips :tongue:

It could have been staging or it could be some way of degrading the victim.

[lorettalockhorn]

IMO, it could very well be there were no physical evidence of sexual assault because the assailant could NOT perform sexually. Which could have been why she was killed. He gets angry because he could not perform, so kills her, as it surely must be her fault. Or, he is so angry he takes out on what (or, in the case, who) is closest @ hand. But not go thru w/the assault by mechanical means.

I think if I didn't truly believe that she knew her killer, I might be able to go with that or something like it. If this killer couldn't stop himself from killing her, I'm not sure that I believe he could have stopped himself from raping her.

[Amy]

I think if I didn't truly believe that she knew her killer, I might be able to go with that or something like it. If this killer couldn't stop himself from killing her, I'm not sure that I believe he could have stopped himself from raping her.

In the instance I was thinking, he [I]couldn't[I] rape her, not being able to perform. He gets mad, kills her. By that time, his rage is over, he doesn't bother to look around for an object to do what he couldn't do. And, he realizes he just killed her, now he has to figure out how to get out of there, hopefully taking all his physical evidence with him.

[lorettalockhorn]

Yeah I guess, except he left behind the condom wrapper. And she didn't fight back. You're probably making perfect sense, but I'm just not getting it.

[hawgustusgloop]

If this were some type of sex crime committed by a stranger, why strike in the middle of the day at an apartment complex where people could come and go at any time for lunch or any other reason? That seems to be just about the worst time of day if you are trying not to be noticed.

[sololobo]

If this were some type of sex crime committed by a stranger, why strike in the middle of the day at an apartment complex where people could come and go at any time for lunch or any other reason? That seems to be just about the worst time of day if you are trying not to be noticed.

Perhaps the killer lived in the same apartment complex. Perhaps watching Nona for some time, nurturing a fantasy, till one day an oppurtunity arose, such as some of Nona's mail left in his mail slot, etc., which gave him an excuse to knock on her door.....

He could have exited the rear sliding door, after pulling back the blinds with his bloody hand to see if the coast was clear, and walked back to his apartment with little chance of detection.

[FDInLaw]

Perhaps the killer lived in the same apartment complex. Perhaps watching Nona for some time, nurturing a fantasy, till one day an oppurtunity arose, such as some of Nona's mail left in his mail slot, etc., which gave him an excuse to knock on her door.....

He could have exited the rear sliding door, after pulling back the blinds with his bloody hand to see if the coast was clear, and walked back to his apartment with little chance of detection. The back of Nona's apartment faces the road. . . Hawg has a point IMO.

Funny, just yesterday I was wondering about the blinds that were on the evidence list. Were they presented during the trial??? What was significant about them??? I don't remember if they were mentioned or not.

[FDInLaw]

The shortest distance to walk would involve someone who lived in the apartment complex, on the same side, near Nona's. He could exit through the rear sliding door and enter his apartment through his sliding door...little chance of detection. This could explain the missing stick and the blood smear in the sliding door blinds. He pulled them back to see if the coast was clear. How could he have gained entrance, though?

Bumping. . .


The back of Nona's apartment is facing the road but there are bushes one could hide behind. . . huh. It's been awhile, I need to drive by there again.

A back door exit does make sense. No stick, blood on blinds (?). The question is, who walked through the door? :cool:

[FDInLaw]

Bumping. . . Notes from today

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First up was Humphries fromt he State Crime Lab. He is latent print examiner like Bacon. The basic gist of his testimony was to impeach Bacon's saying the prints on the base of the lamp were not sutiable for comparison. He said that "3 ridges have no value".
At 9:20 Tom Bevel was up. He is the expert for the prosecution. Quals-20 years in OkCity as cop, now teaches/trains in crime scene and blood analysis. He was sent a cover letter by Gibbons, an e-mail from Frost, a Cd of 128 photographs, a 34 page report that included interviews. In November of 2006 he came to RPD and looked at the carpet and more pictures. The pros spent half of their time asking his opinion of why the scene was staged. Bevel cited- condom wrapper seemed out of place, stick not in door, appearance of sexual assault with no evidence of one, blood on floor leading up to jeans but none on the jeans, the jeans and bra on the floor looked out of place, cell phone with no battery was illogical. The other half was on blood clotting and the bulb print. He said the blood would have clotted by the time Jones found the body and in his opinion the print on the bulb was made with "fresh", unclotted blood. The defense showed him a book he had written and read parts of it to him that applied to the case. The first being about the danger of group think or tunnel vision and how important it is to consider all viable options. Defense asked him if he was provided with all the evidence before he formed his opinion- answer was no. Defens asked if the cover letter and e-mail talked specifically about Jones or was he provided with other suspects. Bevel said only Jones information was given to him. They then went piece by piece over the items he felt were staged. Stick- is it possible the murderer simply took it with him- yes. Is it probable that the blood on the slider blinds is from where the murderer looked out to see if all was clear- answer-possibly. Condom-in your book you say it is common for something like that to be close to the body, the counter is 4 feet fromt he body, is that close. Answer yes but it would be more likely to be on the floor. Pants- there was no blood under them so if they were staged after the fact, wouldn't there be some sign of blood on or around them? Answer-possibly.
Then at 10:55 after a short recess, the judge looked at the jury and said the prosecution has finished up and ow the defesne is going to begin. It was very anti climatic and unceremonious(is that a word?).

[FDInLaw]

Bumping. . . let's not forget that the sliding glass door was locked when Kevin forced it open. . . something that must have been done from the inside (?). She was positioned and the blinds opened so she could be seen through the sliding glass door. That's why there was blood on the blinds. After he finished arranging everything, he turned the light off by the door thinking he was done, but realized he had blood on his hands. He washed his hands, and he left through the front door, because if he would have done anything else it would have looked suspicious. That's how the slider was still locked.

An alternative theory for the light switch is that he flicked it off (or possibly on) right after the murder while he did his business. I could see turning it off right after, because he might have missed his palm print if it was darker.

[hawgustusgloop]

Bumping. . . let's not forget that the sliding glass door was locked when Kevin forced it open. . . something that must have been done from the inside (?).

I wonder if it is possible for the locked door to be forced closed from the outside?

[TJEddie]

Was it ever stated when someone last saw a stick in the door track?

[hawgustusgloop]

Was it ever stated when someone last saw a stick in the door track?

I have no idea, but for some reason I thought it was the Kevinator himself that said she kept a stick in the door.

[FDInLaw]

I have no idea, but for some reason I thought it was the Kevinator himself that said she kept a stick in the door.
Tony Sigle
Russellville Fire Department EMT testified he arrived at the crime scene shortly after Brown. He said he heard Brown asked Jones to leave Dirksmeyer’s body and he heard Jones say “something about trying to call [Dirksmeyer]” as Jones left the room.
“He mentioned there was a STICK she used to keep the sliding door from opening and he couldn’t find a STICK,” Sigle said.
He said he observed a lamp and pants turned inside-out at the scene, as well as a “lampshade laying to the right of [Dirksmeyer’s] feet.”
Sigle also testified that someone at the scene made a comment that the room was cold, and he went to check the thermostat. He noted the heater was turned off and the thermostat read the room temperature at 60 degrees.


http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15414&Search=stick

[TJEddie]

Right. It was testified that Kevin mentioned Nona keeping a stick in the door, and a past tenant also testified that she had kept a blue broomstick in the door when she lived there. However, I was wondering how recently the stick had actually been observed in the door track. Was it something Kevin checked every time he was there? I'm thinking of the cats Nona fed and checked on.....did she do this out the front door or the back door? If she used the slider, perhaps she found the stick to be a nuisance and removed it herself sometime previously. It just seems to me that much has been made of the "missing stick" without any definitive testimony to establish that the stick was in fact still there.

[jeremiads]

Right. It was testified that Kevin mentioned Nona keeping a stick in the door, and a past tenant also testified that she had kept a blue broomstick in the door when she lived there. However, I was wondering how recently the stick had actually been observed in the door track. Was it something Kevin checked every time he was there? I'm thinking of the cats Nona fed and checked on.....did she do this out the front door or the back door? If she used the slider, perhaps she found the stick to be a nuisance and removed it herself sometime previously. It just seems to me that much has been made of the "missing stick" without any definitive testimony to establish that the stick was in fact still there.The stick was a security measure, and from knowing Nona, she would not have just "forgotten" to secure one of the most obvious entrances to her apartment. She always kept her doors locked.

Kevin pointed out the stick because, from how I think of it, he took it off with him and wanted to make sure it was known that it was missing.

[ifIwereU]

The stick was a security measure, and from knowing Nona, she would not have just "forgotten" to secure one of the most obvious entrances to her apartment. She always kept her doors locked.

Kevin pointed out the stick because, from how I think of it, he took it off with him and wanted to make sure it was known that it was missing.

you know, come to think of it, it sure would have been perculiar to leave the stick lying around the apartment if you wanted to make it look like a break in...

[FDInLaw]

Still waiting for news. . . wonder how long the new investigation will take??? :confused:

Guess it's best for us at this point not to have our hopes up. :shrug:

[lorettalockhorn]

McQuary has had the case almost as long as Gibbons did before KJ was arrested and indicted. Who'd a thunk it would take months and months for a new investigation?

[CSOKC]

McQuary has had the case almost as long as Gibbons did before KJ was arrested and indicted. Who'd a thunk it would take months and months for a new investigation?
I think it could mean two things. 1) Nothing or 2) Maybe they've found more evidence.

[TJEddie]

Without knowing who or what is being investigated, I think it's hard to judge how long the investigation might take. IMO, some investigative scenarios might seem relatively easy and straightforward, while others would be much more complicated and time consuming.

[optimumprimal78]

FD,

Do you know if Nona's family has heard anything (one way or the other)? Or if they are even being informed?

[upallnight]

I think it could mean two things. 1) Nothing or 2) Maybe they've found more evidence.
Who knows at this point but I was just googling and Robbins sure seems to be playing the main KJ protector on his defense team.
I still wonder how this DNA was matched, wonder what Robbins was saying in this statement? Seems to be saying they tracked certain people down but did one of the people they felt suspect give them a dna sample? Just does not make sense to me that the person who killed Nona would give a dna sample to KJ's defense team if that is what they are trying to make everyone think. I know he stated "We can't compel people to give us a DNA sample, but I just wonder who could compel someone to give a dna sample due to KJ's defense teams tracking down suspects in their minds, or was one given at all from someone the defense tracked down and why. Or, again-was someones DNA already in the system for some reason and matched. I wonder if his defense team can get their hands on DNA from paternity tests etc., I just wonder what this all does or does not mean and if it will ever help the case or not. Still glad they are looking into it, but I still feel KJ got away with murder at this point. I am waiting from them to prove me wrong if someone else killed Nona. Then again the word prove means alot to me, based on hard core evidence. :shrug:

Nona, you are missed, we will never forget you. What a beautiful angel you must be! :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose:
Robbins, commenting Thursday on why it took so long to find a match for the DNA, said, “Because [the defense has ] had to do it. We don’t have the resources the state has. We can’t compel people to give us a DNA sample.... We had to track down people we felt were suspects in our mind.”

Special prosecutor named in ’05 slaying of Tech coed

BY DEBRA HALE-SHELTON
Posted on Friday, February 8, 2008
Email this story (http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/216115/email/) | Printer-friendly version (http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/216115/print/)

http://www.nwanews.com/advertising/inhouse/meddir_2008_300x250.gif (http://www.nwanews.com/advertising/medicaldir/)
A judge has appointed a special prosecutor to investigate new evidence in the unsolved murder case of Arkansas Tech University student Nona Dirksmeyer, attorneys confirmed Thursday.
Judge Dennis Sutterfield of the 5 th Judicial District appointed Jack McQuary, who works for the Little Rock-based Arkansas Office of Prosecutor Coordinator. McQuary said his appointment was made in the past month, but he couldn’t recall the exact date.
McQuary confirmed only that he was investigating the Dec. 15, 2005, slaying of Dirksmeyer, 19. He would not comment specifically on the investigation’s focus or what prompted it.
But Russellville lawyer Michael Robbins, who successfully helped defend Dirksmeyer’s boyfriend, Kevin Jones of Dover, now 22, said, however, that he believed “the primary reason” for McQuary’s appointment was new DNA evidence uncovered by Jones’ defense team. A jury acquitted Jones of first-degree murder in July.
“I’m glad to see he’s been appointed and that this is being taken seriously,” Robbins said.
Jones, his mother and a friend of his found Dirksmeyer’s nude body lying in a pool of blood on her Russellville apartment’s living-room floor.
Russellville Police Department detective Mark Frost said in an affidavit accompanying Jones’ arrest in April 2006 that police found Jones’ bloody fingerprint on a lamp used to bludgeon Dirksmeyer. The defense later countered that Jones could have touched the lamp after Dirksmeyer was dead.
David Gibbons, 5 th Judicial District prosecuting attorney, has said Dirksmeyer was choked and beaten, stabbed and slashed with a knife on her face, shoulders and throat. The base of the floor lamp fractured her skull.
On Wednesday, Robbins released a statement that the defense had learned that DNA on a condom wrapper found 4 feet from Dirksmeyer’s body in her apartment turned up DNA that matched, not Jones’, but that of “a viable suspect in the case.” Robbins said the defense immediately turned over the evidence to prosecutors.
During Jones’ trial, the defense faulted the prosecution for not analyzing DNA recovered from the condom wrapper. Frost testified that he was told by state Crime Laboratory technicians shortly after Dirksmeyer’s death that the wrapper could not be tested for DNA and fingerprints. The detective said he later learned that he had misunderstood. Authorities have said they never found a condom. Robbins, commenting Thursday on why it took so long to find a match for the DNA, said, “Because [the defense has ] had to do it. We don’t have the resources the state has. We can’t compel people to give us a DNA sample.... We had to track down people we felt were suspects in our mind.” Frost also wrote in the arrest affidavit that he believed the condom wrapper was placed on a kitchen counter in Dirksmeyer’s apartment “to make it appear as if rape was the motive for the attack.” Police have said there was no sign of sexual assault. Rather, Gibbons, speaking at the time of Jones’ arrest, described the killing as a crime of passion “and a loss of temper, rage.” Robbins refused to comment Thursday on why the person whose DNA proved a match was a “viable” suspect. Robbins also declined to say whether Dirksmeyer knew that person. No one is in custody in the case, McQuary said.
Contacted Thursday, Gibbons declined to confirm McQuary’s appointment. McQuary, however, confirmed that under the way the system works, the district’s prosecutor — Gibbons — would have had to request that a judge appoint a special prosecutor.
In a brief statement, Gibbons said, “That case is an open file. It’s being investigated. Work is currently being done. I have no other comment on the investigation.” After Jones’ acquittal, Gibbons was asked about a renewed search for Dirksmeyer’s killer. He said at the time that the case would remain open but added, “We have no evidence to suggest anyone other than who we tried.” Dirksmeyer’s mother and stepfather, Carol and Duane Dipert, did not return a call seeking comment early Thursday.
Dirksmeyer, who was a sophomore music major, graduated from Dover High School. An avid beauty-pageant contestant, she was named Miss Petit Jean Valley in January 2005 and later competed in the Miss Arkansas Pageant.

[FDInLaw]

FD,

Do you know if Nona's family has heard anything (one way or the other)? Or if they are even being informed?
I haven't heard a thing, but that does not mean that Carol hasn't. She is good at keeping information to herself for the sake of the investigation. Wish I had more to report.

It's good to see you OP! :seeya:

[jonikay]

Perhaps the killer lived in the same apartment complex. Perhaps watching Nona for some time, nurturing a fantasy, till one day an oppurtunity arose, such as some of Nona's mail left in his mail slot, etc., which gave him an excuse to knock on her door.....

He could have exited the rear sliding door, after pulling back the blinds with his bloody hand to see if the coast was clear, and walked back to his apartment with little chance of detection.

Nona had her mail sent to her mom's address, not in a mail slot at the apartment complex. It was testified to at the trial and was the reason that the 3 amigos couldn't find an address on any of her mail during the 911 call.

[ifIwereU]

I found this article...thought it was interesting considering the evidence was a bloody palm print....

funny the family didn't think it was compelling evidence, either...go figure:shrug:

http://www.wjla.com/news/aploader.html?js=katv&id=510892

[Amy]

I found this article...thought it was interesting considering the evidence was a bloody palm print....

funny the family didn't think it was compelling evidence, either...go figure:shrug:

http://www.wjla.com/news/aploader.html?js=katv&id=510892

How sad.

But, not knowing all there is about forensics, it doesn't seem logical to me about the brother having prints there, and it shows up in blood because the victim's blood was on there after?

It's not unheard of for one identical twin to turn on the other. Can't remember their names, but there was an Asian set, I think in CA, where the one was behind the attempted murder of the other. The victim was very forgiving, not wanting her sister in prison, IIRC. I can see forgiving, but, without a whole lot of therapy to figure out where the anger and hate came from, I wouldn't want my sister, twin or not, to be loose where she could go off again.

[FDInLaw]

Howdy folks! :seeya:

Latest word. . . Nona's case will be on Dateline Friday (April 25th). This has not been posted on their website as of yet (I'll believe it when I see it lol!). :hat:

[lorettalockhorn]

Hey there, yourself! :seeya:

The link at IMDb gives Dateline two hours: http://www.imdb.com/tvgrid/2008-04-25/2000#NBC

Do they normally just feature one story?

Would Flove to hear from McQuary. Tick tock.

[FDInLaw]

Hey there, yourself! :seeya:

The link at IMDb gives Dateline two hours: http://www.imdb.com/tvgrid/2008-04-25/2000#NBC

Do they normally just feature one story?

Would Flove to hear from McQuary. Tick tock.There will be more than one story I bet. :seeya:

How ya been sweet stuff??? :biggrin:

[FDInLaw]

Howdy folks! :seeya:

Latest word. . . Nona's case will be on Dateline Friday (April 25th). This has not been posted on their website as of yet (I'll believe it when I see it lol!). :hat:
Now the word is that the show will air May 2nd (see what I mean? LOL!). :rolleyes:

[SaraSidle]

Now the word is that the show will air May 2nd (see what I mean? LOL!). :rolleyes:


yes but it is so nice for you to update us

[upallnight]

Thanks for the update FD, and L. Hope everyone is healthy and happy! Howdy folks! :seeya:

Latest word. . . Nona's case will be on Dateline Friday (April 25th). This has not been posted on their website as of yet (I'll believe it when I see it lol!). :hat:

[LurkerNoMore]

I am also hearing Friday for Dateline but can't find online confirmation. Anyone know for-sure-for-sure?

[lorettalockhorn]

:seeya: I've been checking just about every day and having found anything yet either.

[FDInLaw]

I am also hearing Friday for Dateline but can't find online confirmation. Anyone know for-sure-for-sure?Like Loretta, I've been searching for online confirmation to no avail. If "Kamp Kevin" has been told that it is this Friday I would assume it's a go. Since they are the ones that provided the most info (from what I can tell), they will be the ones in the know. That said, I expect that the Dateline show to be much like the 48 Hours show. I'll get to run around on clean-up duty. Yippie. :rolleyes:

One thing to note. Much of why Duane Dipert is slammed has NOTHING to do with this case, and everything to with the fact that he was the landlord for some wannabe princess types that didn't like being told to respect property, etc. Just something to keep in mind. It is not DD's dna on the condom wrapper, they know this, but they keep fueling rumors about him because they don't like him. Enough said.

[lorettalockhorn]

:confused:

[FDInLaw]

:confused:What did I say? :shrug:

[FDInLaw]

Like Loretta, I've been searching for online confirmation to no avail. If "Kamp Kevin" has been told that it is this Friday I would assume it's a go. Since they are the ones that provided the most info (from what I can tell), they will be the ones in the know. That said, I expect that the Dateline show to be much like the 48 Hours show. I'll get to run around on clean-up duty. Yippie. :rolleyes:

One thing to note. Much of why Duane Dipert is slammed has NOTHING to do with this case, and everything to with the fact that he was the landlord for some wannabe princess types that didn't like being told to respect property, etc. Just something to keep in mind. It is not DD's dna on the condom wrapper, they know this, but they keep fueling rumors about him because they don't like him. Enough said.

Correction. . . I really don't know what these folks are being told so this statement is a tab uncharitable on my part. All sorts of lies have been spread about a number of people (Bubba Turner, Jeremy Martin. . . ) and all I can do is challenge everyone to look into the facts before believing what they hear. Guess it's a bit too optimistic for me to hope that the people behind all the smoke are now telling folks the truth. . . I shouldn't assume that they are. :cool:

[lorettalockhorn]

Duane has an alibi. How does Kamp KuJo work around that? Wouldn't a mysterious stranger make more sense? Blaming DD looks like vindictiveness. Blaming a stranger would at least appear like they care about justice.

[LurkerNoMore]

Duane has an alibi. How does Kamp KuJo work around that? Wouldn't a mysterious stranger make more sense? Blaming DD looks like vindictiveness. Blaming a stranger would at least appear like they care about justice.

For what it's worth, I haven't heard or seen any fingers pointed toward DD in a long time, and I don't know anyone who thinks he did it. I'll be surprised if Dataline goes that route, but I guess you never know.

[lorettalockhorn]

After 48 Hours did their piece, The DD Finger Pointing and Straw Grasping was all over their comments section. Yes, that's been a while, but I haven't read much about the case anywhere lately.

[FDInLaw]

For what it's worth, I haven't heard or seen any fingers pointed toward DD in a long time, and I don't know anyone who thinks he did it. I'll be surprised if Dataline goes that route, but I guess you never know.

Have you heard if there will be any new information released about the present investigation? (Or, will the Dateline show just be old news?)

[JustCallMeNora]

That said, I expect that the Dateline show to be much like the 48 Hours show. I'll get to run around on clean-up duty. Yippie. :rolleyes:

One thing to note. Much of why Duane Dipert is slammed has NOTHING to do with this case, and everything to with the fact that he was the landlord for some wannabe princess types that didn't like being told to respect property, etc. Just something to keep in mind. It is not DD's dna on the condom wrapper, they know this, but they keep fueling rumors about him because they don't like him. Enough said.

What??? Where the h is this coming from? What are you talking about?

[FDInLaw]

What??? Where the h is this coming from? What are you talking about?

Look who's back! How's the weather up north???

Just personal knowledge, I've got no link to offer. Please forgive the venting. Lurker is right, I need to just chill.


:seeya:

[LurkerNoMore]

Have you heard if there will be any new information released about the present investigation? (Or, will the Dateline show just be old news?)

I have not heard a thing. I would doubt Dateline would go into the present investigation - they will probably mention it - but from what I gather, the current investigation is being kept pretty tight and under lock and key. It's totally in the state's hands. Dateline might alude to it but I doubt they could get any real info to use. My fear is that they release something that does not need to be released yet (if there's something legit to be released). I hope that doesnt happen.

[FDInLaw]

I have not heard a thing. I would doubt Dateline would go into the present investigation - they will probably mention it - but from what I gather, the current investigation is being kept pretty tight and under lock and key. It's totally in the state's hands. Dateline might alude to it but I doubt they could get any real info to use. My fear is that they release something that does not need to be released yet (if there's something legit to be released). I hope that doesnt happen.Did you see the Dateline thread I started??? Friday's show is mentioned here:

http://www.monticellolive.com/local-...d-on-dateline/

[FDInLaw]

http://insidedateline.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/02/970919.aspx

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks for the link FD!

The Courier has an article to day about Nona's case; it's not on their website yet. Here's a snippet:

"Basically, what I can tell you is that we're still in the process of trying to get information from crime labs on stuff that we've submitted to them," McQuary said. "We also have been interviewing individuals...people that have spoken with Nona or saw Nona on her last day. We've started interviewing people that lived at the apartment complex at the same time that Nona did."
McQuary said investigators are hoping the interviews will turn up new information that may lead to a break in the case.
"Primarily, we're wanting to recheck with everybody to see if they have remembered anything new that they may have forgotten to disclose," he said.
McQuary declined comment on an alleged "DNA match" Michael Robbins, one of Jones' attorneys, announced in February defense experts have since Jones' trial made to DNA discovered on a condom wrapper found at Dirksmeyer's apartment the night of her death.
The person to whom the DNA was allegedly matched, identified by Robbins as a "viable suspect" in the case, has never been disclosed, and both Robbins and Kenneth Johnson of Monticello, another of Jones' attorneys, previously declined comment on the type of DNA allegedly matched.

(Yeah, that sentence about Robbins in poorly written.)

[FDInLaw]

Thanks for the link FD!

The Courier has an article to day about Nona's case; it's not on their website yet. Here's a snippet:

"Basically, what I can tell you is that we're still in the process of trying to get information from crime labs on stuff that we've submitted to them," McQuary said. "We also have been interviewing individuals...people that have spoken with Nona or saw Nona on her last day. We've started interviewing people that lived at the apartment complex at the same time that Nona did."
McQuary said investigators are hoping the interviews will turn up new information that may lead to a break in the case.
"Primarily, we're wanting to recheck with everybody to see if they have remembered anything new that they may have forgotten to disclose," he said.
McQuary declined comment on an alleged "DNA match" Michael Robbins, one of Jones' attorneys, announced in February defense experts have since Jones' trial made to DNA discovered on a condom wrapper found at Dirksmeyer's apartment the night of her death.
The person to whom the DNA was allegedly matched, identified by Robbins as a "viable suspect" in the case, has never been disclosed, and both Robbins and Kenneth Johnson of Monticello, another of Jones' attorneys, previously declined comment on the type of DNA allegedly matched.

(Yeah, that sentence about Robbins in poorly written.)Thank you for posting this! :seeya:

[The R]

although this is another case I need to read up on, can anyone say that maybe Nona didn't receive justice from the CJ system?

Just wondering.

R

[FDInLaw]

although this is another case I need to read up on, can anyone say that maybe Nona didn't receive justice from the CJ system?

Just wondering.

R
That's my fear, but I sure hope I'm wrong. :(

[The R]

That's my fear, but I sure hope I'm wrong. :(

Any chance you'd be so good as to point me in the direction of the best reference on the trial? I'd be obliged. :patriot:


R

[FDInLaw]

Any chance you'd be so good as to point me in the direction of the best reference on the trial? I'd be obliged. :patriot:


R
For chat, this is the place. Several posters attended the trial. Other than here, a local paper did the most reporting:

http://www.couriernews.com/archivesearch.php

(Seach news for "Kevin Jones")

[Amy]

So, still no comment on the DNA. I'm guessing that, since they don't outright refute anything, DNA probably really was identified. Wonder if Robbins' "viable suspect" was someone who was out of the country or something, and isn't as "viable" as he said?

I remember cases (on Forensic Files and such) where LE was SURE they had their man, just to find out he was incarcerated or definitely far, far away @ the time of the murder or whatever crime they were delving into.

[lorettalockhorn]

What did I say? :shrug:


Oh, my chocoholic friend sorry I didn't notice this sooner! I was just :confused: ing because the DD blame seems like so much BS. And I can well imagine where it is coming from. IMHO there are people who do not want justice for Nona. Because of the truth.

Meanwhile, The Courier has updated:

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=18370

Also, this appeared a couple of days ago; don't think it's been posted yet:

http://couriernews.com/letters.php

[FDInLaw]

Oh, my chocoholic friend sorry I didn't notice this sooner! I was just :confused: ing because the DD blame seems like so much BS. And I can well imagine where it is coming from. IMHO there are people who do not want justice for Nona. Because of the truth.

Meanwhile, The Courier has updated:

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=18370

Also, this appeared a couple of days ago; don't think it's been posted yet:

http://couriernews.com/letters.php
Remembering Nona
April 13-18 was National Crime Victims’ Rights Week. The theme for this year’s observance is “Justice for Victims — Justice for All.”
I would like to ask the citizens of Russellville, Pope County, and all subscribers to The Courier who might read this letter to remember Nona Dirksmeyer, whose brutal murder on December 15, 2005, has yet to be avenged. Nobody has been held to account for the senseless tragedy that ended her promising young life.
Please remember Nona’s family in your prayers, and please pray that the person responsible for her murder will NOT go unpunished.

JUSTICE for NONA !

Connie Goff
Russellville
It's the bumper sticker lady! :) Thank you for being such a good friend to Carol and for honoring Nona's memory. Hugs ~ FD

[FDInLaw]

Dirksmeyer case inquiry ongoing

Story date: May 2, 2008

Special prosecutor says investigators re-interviewing witnesses, “looking at everybody”

By Mary Kincy Benefield
newseditor@couriernews.com
More than two years after the brutal murder of Arkansas Tech University student Nona Dirksmeyer, and as a second nationally-televised program featuring the crime is expected to air this evening, a special prosecutor assigned to oversee an inquiry into the unsolved homicide of the 19-year-old said Thursday authorities are in the process of re-interviewing witnesses.
“Sometimes people remember things that they forgot to tell the first investigation group,” Little Rock attorney Jack McQuary, a deputy prosecutor for the 6th Judicial District, said.
McQuary, whose involvement in the case was confirmed in a Feb. 8 press release issued by 5th Judicial District Circuit Judge Dennis C. Sutterfield, declined comment on whether authorities had developed any new suspects in the case during a telephone conversation with a Courier editor Thursday.
“About all I really can say is that we’re looking at everybody on this thing,” McQuary said, adding authorities were examining the case with a “fresh eye.”
Dirksmeyer’s longtime boyfriend, Kevin Jones, was acquitted of the murder in July 2007.
“Basically, what I can tell you is that we’re still in the process of trying to get information from crime labs on stuff that we’ve submitted to them,” McQuary said. “We also have been interviewing individuals ... people that have spoken with Nona or saw Nona on her last day. We’ve started interviewing people that lived at the apartment complex at the same time that Nona did.”
McQuary said investigators are hoping the interviews will turn up new information that may lead to a break in the case.
“Primarily, we’re wanting to recheck with everybody to see if they have remembered anything new that they may have forgotten to disclose,” he said.
McQuary declined comment on an alleged “DNA match” Michael Robbins, one of Jones’ attorneys, announced in February defense experts have since Jones’ trial made to DNA discovered on a condom wrapper found at Dirksmeyer’s apartment the night of her death.
The person to whom the DNA was allegedly matched, identified by Robbins as a “viable suspect” in the case, has never been disclosed, and both Robbins and Kenneth Johnson of Monticello, another of Jones’ attorneys, previously declined comment on the type of DNA allegedly matched.
Nuclear DNA is unique to each individual, while mitochondrial and Y-chromosome DNA are linked maternally and paternally, respectively, and can therefore only be used to exclude — not include — a particular person, according to expert testimony given at Jones’ trial.
During the trial, the prosecution’s theory was the condom wrapper was not direct evidence in the case, but was rather “a trigger” that sent Jones into “a fit of passion” in which he killed his longtime girlfriend.
“There’s new stuff that we’ve submitted to the crime labs, but we also have to go over everything again,” McQuary said without specifying what new information he was referring to.
“We’re still in the process of going through it, because we don’t want to leave any stone unturned,” he added. . .
(http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=18370)

Doesn't sound good to me. :(

[upallnight]

(http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=18370)

Doesn't sound good to me. :(

From Dateline website:
And highly polarized politics, at that. Debates over the boyfriend's guilt or innocence actually stirred up regional resentments and rivalries that date right back to the civil war. As a result, covering the murder of Nona Dirksmeyer was a sometimes tricky business; local media outlets began to take a lot of flak for allegedly slanting the story in favor of one family or the other, and no matter how thorough our efforts to tell the story even-handedly, somebody was always assuming we had to be on one 'side' or the other. Obviously, we were not -- our mission is to follow each story as fairly and clearly as possible. And of course, in this case, as in all others, its the jury that decides.
Were truth and justice served in Nona's case? If you were to ask around in Russellville, Arkansas, the answer you'd likely hear as often as not is... no. Perhaps, after a review of the facts, you'll come to your own conclusion.
And just possibly, before too very long, Nona's mother Carol will finally have her answer. Along with some final justice for Nona Dirksmeyer

I agree FD, also the dateline story I was reading on their website seems to imply there will be "Justice For Nona" as I copied above. Kind of pisses me off that some seem so hell bent on someone other than KJ killed Nona. I just do not understand some statements like "possibly, before to long Carol will finally have her answer. Along with some final justice for Nona Dirksmeyer" If this all leads back to KJ, then how can Justice for Nona and answers for Carol ever be good enough? I was sure hoping for some hard evidence if in fact KJ's attorney's was not feeding everyone a line of BS. To date-nothing. Although that does not surprise me. I still hold on to the fact maybe there is more and it is kept hush hush to protect what ever is being done in the investigation. I don't think dateline will have any thing to offer that most of us do not already know but maybe I just read the story wrong and got all pissed off for no reason. Anyway, I will watch and see how they put the story out. I just do not see anyway it will change my opinion. Guess after a few of the facts I have come to my own conclusion and nothing has changed that. Fact # 1 KJ's print in Nona's blood, on the light bulb along with many, many more facts no matter how you look at it. Just was hoping this dateline story would not be like the 48 hour story. Kind of think it will be now but I could be wrong. I guess those who think this will just go away is wrong, there is still many who want the true person that killed Nona to be known, no matter who that person is. I hope (if KJ did kill Nona and I think he did), this all somehow, someway bites him in the butt! If he did not kill her, I hope this all leads to the killer and Justice For Nona can be served! Thanks for the links FD and L! I am not on here much lately with so much going on with family/work and all but I will never forget Nona and what happened to her.:rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose:

[Brown hound]

Hopefully a new investigation will bring closure to the family. Has anyone checked out the Dateline site? It is so scary, because practically everyone who watched the show in the first 2 page response thinks DD did it. It is so strange to have people from across the country watch us in a fishbowl, and that is the conclusion that most have come up with. Why was Frost not on this show? Does anyone know?

[lorettalockhorn]

666 in this forum.

I don't get how someone with an airtight alibi and no motive can be deemed guilty with so little information.

[hawgustusgloop]

Oh how I wish I could ask that "nurse" juror if his niece is a close friend of Ryan Whiteside.

[lorettalockhorn]

Exactly.

[One2Snoop]

666 in this forum.
snip



Thats really creepy Loretta (666) but it explains approximately half of the 1100 guests I saw here earlier. I've recorded Dateline and will watch it later once my SO gets done hogging the TV. LOL.

[upallnight]

Hopefully a new investigation will bring closure to the family. Has anyone checked out the Dateline site? It is so scary, because practically everyone who watched the show in the first 2 page response thinks DD did it. It is so strange to have people from across the country watch us in a fishbowl, and that is the conclusion that most have come up with. Why was Frost not on this show? Does anyone know?

It does seem many on that site seem to think DD did it, but then again I think it is in the way dateline put the story together. Seems to be the going thing on these stories to edit in and out what they want to. So sad, seems there is much dateline left out that would put KJ back in the lime light so to say. Also wonder why they did not play the part where the jurior said KJ's grandmother is a Christian and would not lie. Also wonder why they do not point out other troubles KJ has been a part of. And also wonder where is the name of that "viable suspect" that has never been named. Sure is not DD, seems his alibi was solid. These people posting on the dateline site only saw what dateline provided for them to see and hear. Or maybe they know of the case and have their own reason to post what they did, be it wrong or right. IMO dateline made a point to highlight DD in the story. Even at one point dateline was filming Carol saying DD did not call her as much as he did the day Nona was killed. What was their intensions there, do they want people to think DD called Carol more that day to cover up something or what? The making and editing of a tv show can be done to present the show as they want it presented. I am disappointed in the show because they left to much out that tells the way things really happened. They seemed to focus on DD, so I think they way the show was presented makes those posting believe DD had something to do with it. It was over a year or so after the murder that KJ's grandmother said KJ was with her that day and gave the timeline, oh yes, and lunch money granny said she gave him also. But of course, there is no proof of that either is there. Just her word, the station worker that disputed seeing KJ at the time KJ stated he saw him, I believe it was Blake but not sure. Dateline said nothing about that. Still, above all I can not get past the fact that KJ knew Nona was to have dinner with her little sister at New China. No one, not even the RPD asked him that I know of why did he not just stop by New China to see if Nona was there instead of going all the way to her apartment. But then again as I thought about it, KJ had Ryan go by her apartment first to see that her car was there and presto it was! Ryan does a Knock knock-no answer. Light on up stairs, Ryan tells KJ and KJ and his mom drives on to her apartment to check on her. Seems to me if he knew she was to be at New China, why would he call Ryan to check her apartment, why not check New China instead, that is where she was to be that evening. Ryan was not headed to or around Nona's apartment to deliver a pizza and could just stop by to check on her was he? Maybe KJ could have had Ryan check New China parking lot or go inside just as easily as drive to her apartment. Just does not make sense to me. KJ pretty much said the two of them knew what the other was doing by keeping in contact most of the time, seems he knew she had exams that day and a date with the little at NC. KJ said he called Nona more than phone records showed he did. That was not on the dateline show either. Ugggggh! Just so disappointed in that show! And those posters on that site stating Carol smiled as to show no emotion and to put so sort of blame on her, bs-I say. Just so sad some resort to saying such terrible things without knowing much at all about the case. I could give 2 shi_s on these peoples opinions. They don't know Carol, DD, or did not know Nona from what they stated, so what makes them think Carol did anything because she smiles! All the evidence against KJ, none against any one else. That says alot to me!

[Amy]

My son just shook his head as I was yelling @ the tv. OF COURSE she shouldn't have been home!!! She was SUPPOSED to be taking an exam that afternoon, AND had plans to go out to eat that evening!!!!! I agree that, if they kept in constant contact and knew each other's every little step, he should have KNOWN these things.

I caught that, too, about the phone contact between Carol and Duane (sp.) Wonder what the interviewer was asking for her to make that comment? I noticed that the QUESTION wasn't there, just her answer.

The jurors did have a point about collection of evidence in areas other than just around the body. I also noticed that both KJ and his mom said he picked her up and rocked back and forth. No mention this time about wiping his hands in her blood to see if it had coagulated yet. And, what was with the statement from KJ that her mom wished SHE had been the one to find her, so she could hold her one last time? Kind of smug that HE got to, and she didn't. Pretty tacky, too, IMO.

So, don't think I will bother with watching another dateline program, I wouldn't be sure what information I WOULDN'T be getting with their "investigative" reporting. And, the older lawyer? The SOUND of his voice made my teeth grind!!! Sure would have hated having to listen to that voice during a trial.

IMO

Oh, and WHAT point were they trying to get across about the Courier having a paper stand in front of the courthouse (if that's where is was) DURING the trial, and the day the trial was over, it was poof? Actually, from the story, I got it that the Dirksmire folks tho't one paper was great and the other poop, and the Jones folks tho't the opposite. Frankly, I couldn't tell which was which.