Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[guppie]

He had no visible injuries to his hands. The brusing on Nona's face would have caused blood vessels to burst in the hand (at the very least). It also could have caused small cracks to appear near the knuckles. Kevin's open hand could not have caused the bruising that was present. It would have been done by a closed fist.

Attacking the chair would have done nothing as it was a padded chair and he used his open hand.

All my opinon, of course... I have not yet received my honorary degree from the police academy for some reason... :rolleyes:

Brent


i don't recall 48 hrs (your only source) showing Nona's FACE in the photos taken after her death. according to the ME, Nona suffered blows to the face above the eye and in the cheek. i only see one shot on 48hrs where it shows a small portion of one side of her chin and a portion of one cheek (doesn't look like the cheek with the bruise) and there is blood on her chin but no major bruising in this shot.
please let us know where on 48 hrs they show Nona's face and the bruising you speak of so we may see how you came to this conclusion.

[hawgustusgloop]

man, the board got hot today....and I missed all the fun.....looks like everyone is taking their shot at Loretta....unfortunately I don't have any negative feedback for her(?):biggrin: I think she is quite entertaining...

She is also smart, beautiful, and rich IMO. And that is not an exaggeration!

[guppie]

She is also smart, beautiful, and rich IMO. And that is not an exaggeration!


and apparently she is royalty as well!

[guppie]

hey Queen Loretta, delete some PM's, will ya?

[lorettalockhorn]

She is also smart, beautiful, and rich IMO. And that is not an exaggeration!

and apparently she is royalty as well!

http://www.mouseplanet.com/images/parade/dud14.jpg

[guppie]

sorry, but nothing beats the crow pic!

let's see what we can discuss.
how bout why the heck the special prosec is taking so long on this DNA match. what the?
OR
did you happen to see Nona's FACE (after she was dead) on 48 hrs? i didn't.


http://www.mouseplanet.com/images/parade/dud14.jpg

[hawgustusgloop]

My attempt (CAVEAT: based on memory and guessing ONLY--I didn't even bother to go back and read yet) to summarize and/or guess a little bit about the computer testimony:

I think the defense was trying to say that Nona was still alive around 11:15 when these certain photos were supposedly downloaded by Nona's computer (because it would be impossible for Kevin to kill her and be back to collect the cash for the grammy hammy sammy by 11:30 IF Granny's 11th hour story is to be believed). However, the prosecution witness said that those photos were consistent with MSN messenger photos (IIRC it was 3 photos, with two of the photos being identical). The same witness said the computer would have downloaded those pictures whether someone was sitting at the computer or not. My personal take on it (just a guess) is, if MSN is like Yahoo Instant Messenger, is that someone on Nona's buddy list signed into MSN messenger, and some little box popped up that said, "Random Friend is online" and showed that person's avatar photo. Maybe when Random Friend signed off, it popped up again and said he or she signed out.

The issue about Nona using Kevin's computer and him spying on her emails is a completely separate issue from the downloaded photos.

[christina]

Sure glad you remember this. . . I sure hate digging. . . been enjoying the read but the Courier didn't cover everything.

Good point

[christina]

Funny. . . I was just reading this!!!



http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15436&Search=kevin%20jones

Thanks for the reminder/link

[christina]

What other evidence would you want to see come forward- specifically having to do with the owner of the dna on the condom wrapper- to lean you towards them rather than Jones?

[hawgustusgloop]

What other evidence would you want to see come forward- specifically having to do with the owner of the dna on the condom wrapper- to lean you towards them rather than Jones?

If the owner of the DNA had the missing stick in his bedroom, old clothes with Nona's blood on them, a motive, and no alibi, I'd say that would be pretty persuasive.

[guppie]

What other evidence would you want to see come forward- specifically having to do with the owner of the dna on the condom wrapper- to lean you towards them rather than Jones?

well, certainly evidence that shows 1) the person had sex with or tried to have sex with Nona on at least one occasion, 2) that the person had been in Nona's apartment at some point, 3) that the person with whom the DNA matches was in the vicinity of her apt at the time of the murder, 4) that the person had a motive/reason to kill Nona, 5) that this person had exhibited "red flag" behavior toward Nona in the past, & 6) the person's own print or dna in the apt in relation to the crime scene (like in his or in her blood).

i'm getting tired and may have left something out. that's a start anyway.
i thought it was a good question so i even numbered it for you too!

[sololobo]

I am somewhat curious as to whether or not you really think the DUI was alleged. Part of the arrest report was posted here. Do you think that RPD faked it?

I am aware of a PI but not a DUI. Was he charged with a DUI?

[FDInLaw]

She is also smart, beautiful, and rich IMO. And that is not an exaggeration!What do you think of this pic? Fits our Loretta better than the present "queen for a day" (my opinion might be rooted in a deep seeded aversion of pink though loll!).

http://www.ecorazzi.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/joanna_lumley_abfab.jpg

Loretta does have a style and attitude all her own. Quite frankly, I don't feel safe eating snacks while she is around. . . many a day she has brought a good chuckle when I needed it. She has my vote for character of the year!

[Amy]

What world are you living in? When I was in the army (Hanau, Germany), I was attempting to get ready to go to church and the guys in my room were watching a porn movie. I asked them if they could possibly turn it off for about ten minutes while I got ready and they refused. So I had to listen to fake screams while I dressed. Today, you can go to rated R movies and they portray sex on the screen - we have become a nation of voyeurs.

I find nothing different between Kevin watching someone have sex and going to say 9 1/2 weeks... Personally, I want this kind of trash outlawed (magazines, movies, etc). But we live in a very imperfect world.

I watched 48 hours and by the end of the show was pretty sure that Kevin was innocent, but they left out too many details, so I ended up on this forum and spent several days wading through posts.

I especially enjoyed the posts from christine and her portrayal of the trial. It was after this that I decided that Kevin was indeed innocent.

Also, in this country, you are "innocent until proven guilty" - so yes, Kevin is innocent because his trial ended up with a "not guilty" verdict.

He does not have a motive. This crime scene tells me that another jealous boyfriend did this because she didn't want to have a relationship with him.

That is a motive. Please enlighten me on how Kevin has a motive?

Brent


Kevin's motive would be the same as in your scenario--jealousy. HE claims they had an "exclusive" relationship, well, except for the little thing about HIS having sex with other girls, of course. But, you know, that's not the point, the point would be that NONA should not have sex with other men, what with their "exclusive" relationship and all.

IMO

[Amy]

Where is the evidence of that? She texted him to say that she loved him that very morning. Please show me evidence to the contrary.

I have to agree with sololobo that there is only one piece of evidence that everything hinges on - the bloody palm print on a light bulb. That is not enough to convict him criminally or civilly.

I would have done the same thing - I would have immediately tried everything in my power to rescuscitate my girlfriend, getting blood all over my face and hands. At that point I would not be concerned about incriminating myself.

The big clincher to me though, is that the person that did this would have to have done some damage to his hand and Kevin's hand had none.

The real killer is still out there - I just wish they would have tested the blood on all the different surfaces for dna...

All statements are, of course, in my lowly opinion.

Brent

Why would the perp have to have damage to his hand? There wasn't any blood from any perp's damaged hand at the scene, whether it was Kevin or someone else.

I don't know how they resuscitate in your world, but in my world (and the world of medicine) resuscitation is NOT performed by LYING on the victim, running your hands thru the blood. It is performed by kneeling AT THE SIDE of the victim, body pretty much upright. The only thing of the rescuer touching the victim would be the hands on the chest, and the face-to-face contact for rescue breathing. Pretty darn hard to accomplish ANYTHING even remotely looking like resuscitation whilst LAYING on the body of the victim.

[FDInLaw]

Why would the perp have to have damage to his hand? There wasn't any blood from any perp's damaged hand at the scene, whether it was Kevin or someone else.

I don't know how they resuscitate in your world, but in my world (and the world of medicine) resuscitation is NOT performed by LYING on the victim, running your hands thru the blood. It is performed by kneeling AT THE SIDE of the victim, body pretty much upright. The only thing of the rescuer touching the victim would be the hands on the chest, and the face-to-face contact for rescue breathing. Pretty darn hard to accomplish ANYTHING even remotely looking like resuscitation whilst LAYING on the body of the victim. This is so true!

[tiggergreen]

Why would the perp have to have damage to his hand? There wasn't any blood from any perp's damaged hand at the scene, whether it was Kevin or someone else.

I don't know how they resuscitate in your world, but in my world (and the world of medicine) resuscitation is NOT performed by LYING on the victim, running your hands thru the blood. It is performed by kneeling AT THE SIDE of the victim, body pretty much upright. The only thing of the rescuer touching the victim would be the hands on the chest, and the face-to-face contact for rescue breathing. Pretty darn hard to accomplish ANYTHING even remotely looking like resuscitation whilst LAYING on the body of the victim.

That is strange - have you ever tried to resuscitate a cold, naked person before? If I were to administer CPR, I would straddle the body. In this position, I would perform mouth to mouth and then pump the chest - alternating between these steps. He laid on her to give her some body warmth. He explored the back of her head to see the extent of her injuries.

When he first entered the apartment, he had to turn her over, so he would have noticed at that point that she had been struck in the head.

Again, I will reiterate - only a questionable bloody palm print on a light bulb is all you have to convict him. He has no motive that anyone can prove. He doesn't have a rock solid alibi, but that is pretty common. Most of us are not not scurrying around making sure we have an alibi every hour of the day.

Bad things happen to everyone. I am just very disappointed that the prosecution focused all their efforts on Kevin instead of performing an exhaustive investigation on the premises of Nona's apartment, on the cars of everyone involved or the houses of interested parties.

All of my information is gleaned from 48 hours and the many, many articles I have read in my search for information on the subject. I have never seen Nona in real life (though I'm sure that it would have been great to know her). I live on the West coast, have eight children and hence do not have the means to galavant around the country.

I'm sorry if anyone thinks that I am attacking anyone here. I just like to debate and discuss matters. I also thought that the opinions in this forum were mostly skewed against Kevin, so I decided to offer some (hopefully) educated opinions for the other side.

Justice for Nona will be accomplished - if not in this life, then in the next. The next life is much more important than this one. Besides, we are only here for about two hours of one of God's days.

Salut!

Brent

[tiggergreen]

What world are you living in? I find nothing different between Kevin watching someone have sex and going to say 9 1/2 weeks...

Ugh! Your world is different than mine that is for sure. That's scary! Just like it was when it was reported KJ did this, good old fella hu?

I still fail to see the difference between watching sex on the BIG screen and seeing it done in real life. We definitely live in a perverted world. It just makes me sick when I see all the damage that is done in this world and the ROOT cause is tied to violence and sex in the media.

When I was living in Reseda, California, there was a young girl living across the street. Her father (a postal worker) would watch porn until the wee hours of the morning. Sometimes she would get up and go to the bathroom and would see him using the *self-service pump* and he wouldn't even stop. We found a way to get her out of there and she lived with our family for a while.

We now have sick and twisted video games (Grand Theft Auto for one) that blur the lines between reality and fantasy. Where will it end? How is it that the peddlers of trash can hide behind the tenet of "Freedom of Speech" - which was intended to protect people who wanted to be able to speak their mind about the workings of government. One of these days if I can scrape up enough money I am going to take them all to court to see if I can right this wrong.

I wonder how Nona's life would have turned out if her real father hadn't abused her (this is something that totally eludes me - how can anyone sexually molest their own daughter? I have three beautiful girls and I would rather kill myself than cause them any harm). In the Bible it states:

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. (Matthew 18:6)

I hope and pray that Nona gets the justice she deserves in this life. I also hope that her loved ones can find some form of peace.

Brent

[FDInLaw]

That is strange - have you ever tried to resuscitate a cold, naked person before? If I were to administer CPR, I would straddle the body. In this position, I would perform mouth to mouth and then pump the chest - alternating between these steps. He laid on her to give her some body warmth. He explored the back of her head to see the extent of her injuries.

When he first entered the apartment, he had to turn her over, so he would have noticed at that point that she had been struck in the head.

Again, I will reiterate - only a questionable bloody palm print on a light bulb is all you have to convict him. He has no motive that anyone can prove. He doesn't have a rock solid alibi, but that is pretty common. Most of us are not not scurrying around making sure we have an alibi every hour of the day.

Bad things happen to everyone. I am just very disappointed that the prosecution focused all their efforts on Kevin instead of performing an exhaustive investigation on the premises of Nona's apartment, on the cars of everyone involved or the houses of interested parties.

All of my information is gleaned from 48 hours and the many, many articles I have read in my search for information on the subject. I have never seen Nona in real life (though I'm sure that it would have been great to know her). I live on the West coast, have eight children and hence do not have the means to galavant around the country.

I'm sorry if anyone thinks that I am attacking anyone here. I just like to debate and discuss matters. I also thought that the opinions in this forum were mostly skewed against Kevin, so I decided to offer some (hopefully) educated opinions for the other side.

Justice for Nona will be accomplished - if not in this life, then in the next. The next life is much more important than this one. Besides, we are only here for about two hours of one of God's days.

Salut!

Brent
It's been seriously ten years since I took a CPR course. . . but I don't remember this. Nothing was stated about how to warm a dead, oops, I mean "cold" body. And no, it's not wise to sit on someone's diaphragm while administering CPR. But hey, it's been forever, have you taken a course recently?

BTW. . . Welcome to the board! :seeya:

[tiggergreen]

Maybe the fact that Nona was moving on from her 5 year relationship with him? That seems like a pretty good motive coming from a jealous boyfriend to me. Especially since he seems to think they were going to get married.

Can you please give your source for this statement? I have never read anything except rumour and conjecture on this subject. The only facts I know is that they had a very tender conversation the night before her murder and that she sent him a wonderful, loving text message the next morning.

[FDInLaw]

http://depts.washington.edu/learncpr/quickcpr.html

I love pictures! :)

[FDInLaw]

Can you please give your source for this statement? I have never read anything except rumour and conjecture on this subject. The only facts I know is that they had a very tender conversation the night before her murder and that she sent him a wonderful, loving text message the next morning.Now this here is a big can of worms . . .

You might want to start with the girl that testified to having sex with Kevin the week before Nona's murder.


48 Hours had the opportunity to cover this issue more but they choose to ignore it.

[tiggergreen]

It's been seriously ten years since I took a CPR course. . . but I don't remember this. Nothing was stated about how to warm a dead, oops, I mean "cold" body. And no, it's not wise to sit on someone's diaphragm while administering CPR. But hey, it's been forever, have you taken a course recently?

BTW. . . Welcome to the board! :seeya:

Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, it has been a while - I learned it ages ago while serving in the Army. I would never sit on the diaphragm, though - I would be lower down and wouldn't put any pressure on the body. I just know that there are multiple ways to perform CPR and that it would be my method to do exactly as Kevin did. This does not prove that he did not attempt to contaminate the crime scene, but I just wanted to let everyone know that it is very possible that he was acting like a very concerned boyfriend at this point.

I appreciate a lot of your posts - even though you have sided against Kevin, you have managed to keep your tone civil and have elucidated us all with your intelligent remarks.

Brent

[tiggergreen]

Now this here is a big can of worms . . .

You might want to start with the girl that testified to having sex with Kevin the week before Nona's murder.


48 Hours had the opportunity to cover this issue more but they choose to ignore it.

Yes, he cheated on her - perhaps he felt very badly afterwards. I agree that I wish there had been more coverage on the subject. There are always two sides to every story and this one is so one-sided right now.

Again, I believe that this form of behavior is tied to the amount of filth that pumped out at us from television, magazines, books and the movies.

This still does not prove that they were not getting married. Is there anything - an email or letter - from Nona that states that she was moving on?

Brent

[FDInLaw]

Yes, he cheated on her - perhaps he felt very badly afterwards. I agree that I wish there had been more coverage on the subject. There are always two sides to every story and this one is so one-sided right now.

Again, I believe that this form of behavior is tied to the amount of filth that pumped out at us from television, magazines, books and the movies.

This still does not prove that they were not getting married. Is there anything - an email or letter - from Nona that states that she was moving on?

BrentIn the event of a civil suit, I'm sure this subject will be covered more thoroughly. The first time around, Nona's friend Sara Bailey was the only one that really stated problems in their relationship. With a "not guilty" verdict, more of her friends may want to take the stand the second time around. I don't think most realized how important what they had to say was until it was too late. We'll have to wait and see.

Thank you for the kind words. I'm not always civil but I'm trying! :seeya:

[guppie]

Why would the perp have to have damage to his hand? There wasn't any blood from any perp's damaged hand at the scene, whether it was Kevin or someone else.

I don't know how they resuscitate in your world, but in my world (and the world of medicine) resuscitation is NOT performed by LYING on the victim, running your hands thru the blood. It is performed by kneeling AT THE SIDE of the victim, body pretty much upright. The only thing of the rescuer touching the victim would be the hands on the chest, and the face-to-face contact for rescue breathing. Pretty darn hard to accomplish ANYTHING even remotely looking like resuscitation whilst LAYING on the body of the victim.

agreed.
also, to my knowledge, KJ didn't know how to perform CPR, nor did KJ ask the 911 operator how to perform CPR, nor did KJ listen to instructions over the phone as of what to do. i think he simply gave the phone to his mother and ignored what the operator was trying to tell him.

if my loved one was in the "process of dying" (like KJ would like us to believe now...meaning "revivable"), i would definitely be getting instructions on how to perform CPR! Nona had been there for many hrs and was overtaken by rigor and coldness. i don't know a person "in this world" who thinks she could possibly be alive at that point. KJ stated on the phone that he thought "she was dead," her body indicated she had been dead for a while, and he ignored CPR procedure and started rubbing around in her blood....hmm??? that says to me, he knew darn well she was dead and was NOT attempting to revive her. IMO, he was covering blood evidence left on him from killing her.

tigger- if there is army training on reviving people who have been dead for 7 hrs WITHOUT USING CPR, i think we would all love to be privvy to that technique. please advise. we should pass it on to all doctors and hospitals around our nation and the globe.

[tiggergreen]

i live in this world and so do you. unfortunately, Nona does not because someone willfully and deliberately took her away from this world at the age of 19. she was finally getting stronger and finding her way when her life was so brutally taken. this beautiful girl is why we are here. we are not here to bash kevin jones. we seek the truth. do not question what world i live in. clearly you and i live here, and we have different opinions about kevin jones innocence or guilt. i think you should not jump into this forum insulting its members and instead use some posting etiquette. surely you learned manners in the army. i will answer your questions when you pose them in a decent way.
btw, it is "PRESUMED innocent until proven guilty", NOT " innocent until proven guilty."

I am sorry that you inferred from my post that I was attacking you. It is very hard to express emotion through words only. If you felt that I was insulting you, I apologize - that was definitely not my intent.

In fact, I was responding to a lot of posts that had the same general gist - I just happened to use yours to press the "Quote" button.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree, because to me, "presumed innocence" is in stark contrast to the parties favoring a guilty verdict against Kevin.

I look forward to reading more of your posts.

Cheers!

Brent

[tiggergreen]

agreed.
also, to my knowledge, KJ didn't know how to perform CPR, nor did KJ ask the 911 operator how to perform CPR, nor did KJ listen to instructions over the phone as of what to do. i think he simply gave the phone to his mother and ignored what the operator was trying to tell him.

if my loved one was in the "process of dying" (like KJ would like us to believe now...meaning "revivable"), i would definitely be getting instructions on how to perform CPR! Nona had been there for many hrs and was overtaken by rigor and coldness. i don't know a person "in this world" who thinks she could possibly be alive at that point. KJ stated on the phone that he thought "she was dead," her body indicated she had been dead for a while, and he ignored CPR procedure and started rubbing around in her blood....hmm??? that says to me, he knew darn well she was dead and was NOT attempting to revive her. IMO, he was covering blood evidence left on him from killing her.

tigger- if there is army training on reviving people who have been dead for 7 hrs WITHOUT USING CPR, i think we would all love to be privvy to that technique. please advise. we should pass it on to all doctors and hospitals around our nation and the globe.

You are right - I could most probably be wrong - but I can see a mental image of me straddling a body to perform CPR - perhaps this changed over the years. In the heat of the moment, we sometimes do stupid things. I do stupid things on a daily basis (but I hope to do better eventually).

I'm just offering an opinion that Kevin could possibly have only been interested in the welfare of Nona and wasn't thinking clearly.

Brent

[guppie]

He had no visible injuries to his hands. The brusing on Nona's face would have caused blood vessels to burst in the hand (at the very least). It also could have caused small cracks to appear near the knuckles. Kevin's open hand could not have caused the bruising that was present. It would have been done by a closed fist.
Attacking the chair would have done nothing as it was a padded chair and he used his open hand.
All my opinon, of course... I have not yet received my honorary degree from the police academy for some reason... :rolleyes:
Brent

i don't recall 48 hrs (your only source) showing Nona's FACE in the photos taken after her death. according to the ME, Nona suffered blows to the face above the eye and in the cheek. i only see one shot on 48hrs where it shows a small portion of one side of her chin and a portion of one cheek (doesn't look like the cheek with the bruise) and there is blood on her chin but no major bruising in this shot.
please let us know where on 48 hrs they show Nona's face and the bruising you speak of so we may see how you came to this conclusion.

sorry, i can't seem to find where you responded to my post asking where 48 hrs showed Nona's facial injuries. i have 48 hrs on my DVR and would like to see what you were looking at to determine that her bruising injuries were inflicted by a closed fist. i must have missed that. i would certainly correct myself if i am wrong about them showing Nona's face and the bruising. i realize Det . Bacon stated it was a not closed fist but a palm/heel slap, but if you can point out something to show us otherwise, please do.

[guppie]

I am sorry that you inferred from my post that I was attacking you. It is very hard to express emotion through words only. If you felt that I was insulting you, I apologize - that was definitely not my intent.

In fact, I was responding to a lot of posts that had the same general gist - I just happened to use yours to press the "Quote" button.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree, because to me, "presumed innocence" is in stark contrast to the parties favoring a guilty verdict against Kevin.

I look forward to reading more of your posts.

Cheers!

Brent
all apologies accepted here. i was actually a bit flattered you took one of my posts to take a dig at. i am pretty green here. i bet Loretta is jealous! j/k Lo, you probably liked the break. ha!
anyway, i don't know if a few yrs of pre-law count for a thing, but i have always interpreted "presumed innocent" differently from "actual innocence." i think you may misunderstand the meaning of that term. i think we all know that criminals walk free all the time. that does not mean they are innocent. get me?

if i am wrong or misinterpret something, i will tell you. i have been wrong before. i would LOVE to be wrong about kevin, as many of us would.

[christina]

I think you are making valid points about the current culture and its effects. Sex with people, outside of marraige, is something we read about and see displayed reguarly.
Both Nona and Jones "cheated". I have not decided if that is really what to call it as they were not married to each other, and we dont really know the agreement/understanding the two had with each other.
From the pictures shown on 48 Hours and common sense, I would say these were two young people that started dating very early in their lives and pictured it would "last forever" no matter what happened. That is a common theme in young, inexperienced people. Also, starting out at that young of an age, they probably grew up to feel very comfortable with each other.
Attending different colleges gave them both room to explore. But they always ended up "back with each other". Like a new pair of shoes vesus an old comfortable pair, it takes a while to get used to the new and you keep preferring the old.
Would they still be together today if Nona had not been murdered? I would guess probably not.
To me, this ruled out the "jealous factor" since both of them were really in the same place.

[hawgustusgloop]

Can you please give your source for this statement? I have never read anything except rumour and conjecture on this subject. The only facts I know is that they had a very tender conversation the night before her murder and that she sent him a wonderful, loving text message the next morning.

Wow, you seem to have a lot of information.

[guppie]

I think you are making valid points about the current culture and its effects. Sex with people, outside of marraige, is something we read about and see displayed reguarly.
Both Nona and Jones "cheated". I have not decided if that is really what to call it as they were not married to each other, and we dont really know the agreement/understanding the two had with each other.
From the pictures shown on 48 Hours and common sense, I would say these were two young people that started dating very early in their lives and pictured it would "last forever" no matter what happened. That is a common theme in young, inexperienced people. Also, starting out at that young of an age, they probably grew up to feel very comfortable with each other.
Attending different colleges gave them both room to explore. But they always ended up "back with each other". Like a new pair of shoes vesus an old comfortable pair, it takes a while to get used to the new and you keep preferring the old.
Would they still be together today if Nona had not been murdered? I would guess probably not.
To me, this ruled out the "jealous factor" since both of them were really in the same place.

sorry, C. i have to disagree. while there are many decent men out there who are as you state above, there are also controlling, jealous, abusive men who do not think that way. they are the "do as i say, not as i do" type as amy, jonikay, and i all describe. not everyone is ok with open relationships just because their half is open. it's very hypocritical of them, but we see it all the time. just because KJ was having sex with others, does not automatically mean that in his mind it was ok for Nona to do the same.

[guppie]

Can you please give your source for this statement? I have never read anything except rumour and conjecture on this subject. The only facts I know is that they had a very tender conversation the night before her murder and that she sent him a wonderful, loving text message the next morning.


wow, were you in the room or one the phone? how do you know their conversation was tender? you state that as FACT. very intriguing. you have me hooked. yes, you have the guppie hooked. do tell.

[FDInLaw]

Can you please give your source for this statement? I have never read anything except rumour and conjecture on this subject. The only facts I know is that they had a very tender conversation the night before her murder and that she sent him a wonderful, loving text message the next morning.

I think you are making valid points about the current culture and its effects. Sex with people, outside of marraige, is something we read about and see displayed reguarly.
Both Nona and Jones "cheated". I have not decided if that is really what to call it as they were not married to each other, and we dont really know the agreement/understanding the two had with each other.
From the pictures shown on 48 Hours and common sense, I would say these were two young people that started dating very early in their lives and pictured it would "last forever" no matter what happened. That is a common theme in young, inexperienced people. Also, starting out at that young of an age, they probably grew up to feel very comfortable with each other.
Attending different colleges gave them both room to explore. But they always ended up "back with each other". Like a new pair of shoes vesus an old comfortable pair, it takes a while to get used to the new and you keep preferring the old.
Would they still be together today if Nona had not been murdered? I would guess probably not.
To me, this ruled out the "jealous factor" since both of them were really in the same place.If only all this were true, Nona might still be with us. JMO :rose:

[FDInLaw]

There are too many lily pads in your pond (Clean out your Inbox).

:tongue:

[lorettalockhorn]

The only facts I know is that they had a very tender conversation the night before her murder and that she sent him a wonderful, loving text message the next morning.

Can you please give your source for this statement? TYIA

[christina]

sorry, C. i have to disagree. while there are many decent men out there who are as you state above, there are also controlling, jealous, abusive men who do not think that way. they are the "do as i say, not as i do" type as amy, jonikay, and i all describe. not everyone is ok with open relationships just because their half is open. it's very hypocritical of them, but we see it all the time. just because KJ was having sex with others, does not automatically mean that in his mind it was ok for Nona to do the same.


No problem with disagreeing-respectfully. I thank you for that.
While I am sorry for your past situation, and agree there are obviously controlling men out there, I do not see that as applicable in this situation.

One of the concerns I had about this situation is that Nona was vulnerable to being hurt. A young, beautiful woman, in the public eye, living in a not very secure and very accessible apartment, alone,- not a good mix. A stick in the back door-no dead bolt on the front door would concern me also.
From the time the prosecution brought up that she was "into sceurity", I have wondered why then did she move out of a very secure situation with her mother and step father a month after graduating form high school, then from having a room mate to living alone.
But from some posters comments here, I understand she was a loving, trusting young woman.

[CSOKC]

No problem with disagreeing-respectfully. I thank you for that.
While I am sorry for your past situation, and agree there are obviously controlling men out there, I do not see that as applicable in this situation.

One of the concerns I had about this situation is that Nona was vulnerable to being hurt. A young, beautiful woman, in the public eye, living in a not very secure and very accessible apartment, alone,- not a good mix. A stick in the back door-no dead bolt on the front door would concern me also.
From the time the prosecution brought up that she was "into sceurity", I have wondered why then did she move out of a very secure situation with her mother and step father a month after graduating form high school, then from having a room mate to living alone.
But from some posters comments here, I understand she was a loving, trusting young woman.
Where did you see that she moved out a month after graduating high school? Did I miss that somewhere?

[guppie]

No problem with disagreeing-respectfully. I thank you for that.
While I am sorry for your past situation, and agree there are obviously controlling men out there, I do not see that as applicable in this situation.

One of the concerns I had about this situation is that Nona was vulnerable to being hurt. A young, beautiful woman, in the public eye, living in a not very secure and very accessible apartment, alone,- not a good mix. A stick in the back door-no dead bolt on the front door would concern me also.
From the time the prosecution brought up that she was "into sceurity", I have wondered why then did she move out of a very secure situation with her mother and step father a month after graduating form high school, then from having a room mate to living alone.
But from some posters comments here, I understand she was a loving, trusting young woman.

i agree that Nona WAS vulnerable. IMO she clinged (clung?) to KJ for that reason in high school and part of college. as much as we hate to admit it, abuse &/or abandonment in the past by the father often leads to attracting the same sort of bf in the future. i believe Nona was dependent on KJ, as KJ's mother basically stated on 48 hrs. KJ's mother actually said a few things on which i base my theory.

anyway, i think at the point Nona was killed, she was coming out of that weakness (i base that on her platform on child abuse with the pageant sytem and her activity w/ Lil Sis, not just hearsay which also seems to back this up). i believe she met with an uncooperative and unwilling bf who refused to let her get strong and potentially leave him for good. that is when women in those types of situations get killed, on their "way out the door" so to speak. abused women (verbally or phys) often go back in & out many times (which may explain the cuddlebug text). it is my belief that KJ had gotten the vibe that Nona was on the way out of this relationship. the fact that he wasn't invited to stay the night before she died combined with the middle of the night, lengthy conversation with his mother also back up this theory in my mind.

here's a couple of quotes from The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker:
"Though leaving is the best response to violence, it is in trying to leave that most women get killed."
"For men like this, rejection is a threat to the identity, the persona, to the entire self, and in this sense their crimes could be called murder in the defense of the self."
To Have or to Harm by Linden Gross was the first major book on stalking and also has good references.

[WonderWoman]

i think you are completely lost...oops, sorry did i write that?


Just about as lost as you are...oops, did i write that?:cuss: :cuss:

[Amy]

What do you think of this pic? Fits our Loretta better than the present "queen for a day" (my opinion might be rooted in a deep seeded aversion of pink though loll!).

http://www.ecorazzi.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/joanna_lumley_abfab.jpg

Loretta does have a style and attitude all her own. Quite frankly, I don't feel safe eating snacks while she is around. . . many a day she has brought a good chuckle when I needed it. She has my vote for character of the year!

Neither of those photos look anything like what we see of Loretta in the funny papers!!! Hmmm....now I'm curious as to what LEROY really looks like.

Regardless of what Loretta really looks like, tho, I do enjoy her posts.

[tiggergreen]

sorry, i can't seem to find where you responded to my post asking where 48 hrs showed Nona's facial injuries. i have 48 hrs on my DVR and would like to see what you were looking at to determine that her bruising injuries were inflicted by a closed fist. i must have missed that. i would certainly correct myself if i am wrong about them showing Nona's face and the bruising. i realize Det . Bacon stated it was a not closed fist but a palm/heel slap, but if you can point out something to show us otherwise, please do.

It might not have been 48 hours. Here are some links to articles that I have read concerning the bruising:

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15333&Search=Nona

Unable to find a pulse, Brown said she applied cardiac monitor pads to Dirksmeyer’s chest to confirm her suspicion that Dirksmeyer was dead.
“I did not look at the back of her head,” she said. “Her right eye was bruised, her hands had blood on them ... there was dried blood on her face,” she said.

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15334&Search=Nona

In the initial stage, according to Gibbons, Dirksmeyer was punched and choked, resulting in a broken hyolic bone, which is located in the neck; a hemorrhage in the right eye, which may have been the result of choking; a bruise to the temple, and injury to the upper and lower mouth.

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15339&Search=Nona

Waid also testified he observed no cuts or abrasions indicative of a struggle on the face, hands, or chest of Jones.
“The absence of any cuts or abrasions on Kevin Jones’ body — that has some significance,” Bristow said.
“It is something to consider,” Waid replied.

What stood out to me was the term "punched" - in my mind that evokes an image of using a fist...

Sorry about the confusion.

Brent

[Amy]

That is strange - have you ever tried to resuscitate a cold, naked person before? If I were to administer CPR, I would straddle the body. In this position, I would perform mouth to mouth and then pump the chest - alternating between these steps. He laid on her to give her some body warmth. He explored the back of her head to see the extent of her injuries.
....snip

Brent


So, you are going to tell me that they don't teach basic CPR in the ARMY these days? Heck, they teach basic CPR in junior and senior high school, plus show CPR on hundreds of shows...and I don't think in any scenario CPR is taught or shown by straddling the body. You CANNOT straddle, do any remotely effective chest compressions. To do mouth to mouth from the straddled position, one would have contort his/her neck in order to effectively cover the victim's mouth to deliver breaths. AND, what is it with giving her body some warmth????? One would either be concentrating on performing CPR OR concentrating on "warming" a dead body.

I have had to attend Basic Life Support sessions every one to two years for the past 40 years. While there has been some changes in the delivery of CPR over those years, what has always been the same is---the position of the rescuer to the victim. And, this same position is what is portrayed in all the television shows (real or re-enacted or downright fictional.)

PS--STRADDLING lower portion of the body, essentially the legs, HAS been the position for performing Removal of a Foreign Body, but even then, the rescuer does not LIE on the victim's body.

And, again, WARMING the victim's body isn't a part of CPR OR removal of a foreign object. It just isn't. Anyone, even one who has never observed CPR, never taken a class, would be concentrating on ONE aspect of rescue.

[lorettalockhorn]

I am aware of a PI but not a DUI. Was he charged with a DUI?

Solo, I thought that you were referring to the public intoxication which wasn't alleged, it did in fact happen unless the police report is a fake. I haven't heard anything about a DUI. Sorry for misreading/misinterpreting.

[Amy]

Can you please give your source for this statement? I have never read anything except rumour and conjecture on this subject. The only facts I know is that they had a very tender conversation the night before her murder and that she sent him a wonderful, loving text message the next morning.

Of course, that information is gleaned from only ONE of the participants of said "tender" conversation--Nona is dead and can't tell us if what Kevin says about their conversation is true or not (and, he did lie about some things, so how could we be SURE that he didn't lie about this one?)

The "wonderful, loving" text message can be proved from what phone it was sent, OTOH, there is no way to prove WHO actually TYPED the message, and, again, Miss Nona is dead and can't verify whether or not she is the typer of said message.

IMO

[tiggergreen]

Can you please give your source for this statement? TYIA

Sorry - I will have to retract the use of the word fact - this is obviously just my opinion that I obtained by reading of the account of Kevin being scared about talking to his mother about getting a bad grade. Kevin and Nona talked at 3:00 am about this subject. I assumed it was a loving conversation.

The one fact we do have is that Nona sent a loving text message at 9:06 am on the morning of December 15th:

“Good morning, cuddle-muffin. I love you. Have a great day.”

This fact alone presents me a far different picture than the one painted by others as a relationship that was on the way out.

Thanks for catching me on this...

Brent

[lorettalockhorn]

Sorry - I will have to retract the use of the word fact - this is obviously just my opinion that I obtained by reading of the account of Kevin being scared about talking to his mother about getting a bad grade. Kevin and Nona talked at 3:00 am about this subject. I assumed it was a loving conversation.

The one fact we do have is that Nona sent a loving text message at 9:06 am on the morning of December 15th:

“Good morning, cuddle-muffin. I love you. Have a great day.”

This fact alone presents me a far different picture than the one painted by others as a relationship that was on the way out.

Thanks for catching me on this...

Brent

No problem, I just had never read anything factual; didn't think that there were any eyewitnesses. Haven't read anything about the nature of the conversation about the bad grade either. Do you have a source for that?

[FDInLaw]

Just about as lost as you are...oops, did i write that?:cuss: :cuss:http://realonomics.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/chill-pill.jpg

[upallnight]

What other evidence would you want to see come forward- specifically having to do with the owner of the dna on the condom wrapper- to lean you towards them rather than Jones?

Enough probable cause to arrest this person what ever this evidence may be would be a start. There has not been enough made public at this point for me to lean towards another person. Guess I would have to hear and see such evidence to actually make me lean towards someone else or not. Wish I had a crystal ball but I will have to wait and see if such evidence exhists to actually warrant an arrest for anyone else, otherwise I have nothing to base my opinion on.

[upallnight]

What do you think of this pic? Fits our Loretta better than the present "queen for a day" (my opinion might be rooted in a deep seeded aversion of pink though loll!).

http://www.ecorazzi.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/joanna_lumley_abfab.jpg

Loretta does have a style and attitude all her own. Quite frankly, I don't feel safe eating snacks while she is around. . . many a day she has brought a good chuckle when I needed it. She has my vote for character of the year!

Hehe, that is a good picture! Yes, she does have style and crack me up to! I also believe her heart to be in the right place.

[guppie]

Just about as lost as you are...oops, did i write that?:cuss: :cuss:

WW, please come up with your own lines and thoughts. thanks.
my apologies for straying from the task at hand which is to find the truth for the sake of Nona and her family and those who care about her. it's just hard sometimes not to take moments out for comic relief when people are very passionate and things get a little too heated. back to the important stuff...

[CSOKC]

I really want to do a quick review of some of the pieces of evidence. What do we know about these items, etc.? I am going to make a list, and then if anyone has anything to add please feel free!

Underwear
Knife
Blood Spots A) Light Switch B) Oven Door C) Carpet
Bloody Print on bulb (Although everyone already knows who this belongs to)
Fingernail
Condom Wrapper
Door Stick
Cell Phone
Cell Phone Battery

Okay, well I thought this was a good idea, but then I blanked.

[guppie]

I could also be wrong - all my information comes from what was shown on the 48 hours tv show- they brought up the details about the hand. From what I remember, it looked like a padded chair.

Brent

It might not have been 48 hours. Here are some links to articles that I have read concerning the bruising:

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15333&Search=Nona

Unable to find a pulse, Brown said she applied cardiac monitor pads to Dirksmeyer’s chest to confirm her suspicion that Dirksmeyer was dead.
“I did not look at the back of her head,” she said. “Her right eye was bruised, her hands had blood on them ... there was dried blood on her face,” she said.

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15334&Search=Nona

In the initial stage, according to Gibbons, Dirksmeyer was punched and choked, resulting in a broken hyolic bone, which is located in the neck; a hemorrhage in the right eye, which may have been the result of choking; a bruise to the temple, and injury to the upper and lower mouth.

What stood out to me was the term "punched" - in my mind that evokes an image of using a fist...

Sorry about the confusion.

Brent

He had no visible injuries to his hands. The brusing on Nona's face would have caused blood vessels to burst in the hand (at the very least). It also could have caused small cracks to appear near the knuckles. Kevin's open hand could not have caused the bruising that was present. It would have been done by a closed fist.

Attacking the chair would have done nothing as it was a padded chair and he used his open hand.

All my opinon, of course... I have not yet received my honorary degree from the police academy for some reason... :rolleyes:

Brent


Ruh roh, Raggy!
i am seeing a lot of red flags.
first you say "all of (your) info comes from what was shown on the 48 hrs tv show" then when i call you out on it, you change your story.
where else did you see photos as references? how can you state so matter-of-factly that it had to "have been done by a closed fist" without SEEING the injury?
are you seriously expecting me to buy that you got this whole conclusion based on a written newpaper report that says "bruising?"

[guppie]

So, you are going to tell me that they don't teach basic CPR in the ARMY these days? Heck, they teach basic CPR in junior and senior high school, plus show CPR on hundreds of shows...and I don't think in any scenario CPR is taught or shown by straddling the body. You CANNOT straddle, do any remotely effective chest compressions. To do mouth to mouth from the straddled position, one would have contort his/her neck in order to effectively cover the victim's mouth to deliver breaths. AND, what is it with giving her body some warmth????? One would either be concentrating on performing CPR OR concentrating on "warming" a dead body.

I have had to attend Basic Life Support sessions every one to two years for the past 40 years. While there has been some changes in the delivery of CPR over those years, what has always been the same is---the position of the rescuer to the victim. And, this same position is what is portrayed in all the television shows (real or re-enacted or downright fictional.)

PS--STRADDLING lower portion of the body, essentially the legs, HAS been the position for performing Removal of a Foreign Body, but even then, the rescuer does not LIE on the victim's body.

And, again, WARMING the victim's body isn't a part of CPR OR removal of a foreign object. It just isn't. Anyone, even one who has never observed CPR, never taken a class, would be concentrating on ONE aspect of rescue.

good point. who here has never attended any CPR training at all?
i am sure we could all use a refresher time to time, but that is why it is so impt to listen to the operator give those instructions on the phone if needed.

if KJ was unaware of how to perform CPR (because he skipped his P.E. or first aid class or whatever), he could have asked the operator for instructions or stayed on the phone while she offered them to him. if i believed my husband had a chance to live and i was faced with that scene, i would listen VERY CAREFULLY to the operator's CPR instructions.
this is why IMO, KJ knew Nona was dead. and this is why i believe he made no attempt to revive her but yet used that as an excuse to have blood all over him to cover the traces of blood already there. JMO

[guppie]

Solo, I thought that you were referring to the public intoxication which wasn't alleged, it did in fact happen unless the police report is a fake. I haven't heard anything about a DUI. Sorry for misreading/misinterpreting.

Lo, i saw where you wrote DUI, but i knew what you meant.
where i'm from, public intox (P.I.) goes on your record. nothing "alleged" about it (see Solo's post).
although here, it is possible to pay an attorney $100 to have it removed for you. sounds silly, i know. it is possible that it went on KJ's record and he had it removed by his dream team. i would have to know if AR law is the same as TN law in that regard.

[FDInLaw]

I really want to do a quick review of some of the pieces of evidence. What do we know about these items, etc.? I am going to make a list, and then if anyone has anything to add please feel free!

Underwear
Knife
Blood Spots A) Light Switch B) Oven Door C) Carpet
Bloody Print on bulb (Although everyone already knows who this belongs to)
Fingernail
Condom Wrapper
Door Stick
Cell Phone
Cell Phone Battery

Okay, well I thought this was a good idea, but then I blanked.This is a great idea. . . might even deserve it's own thread.

[upallnight]

I still fail to see the difference between watching sex on the BIG screen and seeing it done in real life. We definitely live in a perverted world. It just makes me sick when I see all the damage that is done in this world and the ROOT cause is tied to violence and sex in the media.

When I was living in Reseda, California, there was a young girl living across the street. Her father (a postal worker) would watch porn until the wee hours of the morning. Sometimes she would get up and go to the bathroom and would see him using the *self-service pump* and he wouldn't even stop. We found a way to get her out of there and she lived with our family for a while.

We now have sick and twisted video games (Grand Theft Auto for one) that blur the lines between reality and fantasy. Where will it end? How is it that the peddlers of trash can hide behind the tenet of "Freedom of Speech" - which was intended to protect people who wanted to be able to speak their mind about the workings of government. One of these days if I can scrape up enough money I am going to take them all to court to see if I can right this wrong.

I wonder how Nona's life would have turned out if her real father hadn't abused her (this is something that totally eludes me - how can anyone sexually molest their own daughter? I have three beautiful girls and I would rather kill myself than cause them any harm). In the Bible it states:

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. (Matthew 18:6)

I hope and pray that Nona gets the justice she deserves in this life. I also hope that her loved ones can find some form of peace.

Brent

I disagree, why would anyone in the right mind do that? Why would anyone stand around and watch while his low life buddies have sex with an unconscious girl. It was reported she did not remember anything, what does that say. If it was your daughter that this had been do to, would you still think it is no different than being on a big screen TV, you did state you already rescued one child that was expose to a sex act, right? Why did you do that if it is no different, it is in the real world also and it is just as wrong. I'm confused by your statements, would you have tried find a way to get this young girl away from these boys like you did the young girl who witnessed the "self service pump" or would you have stood your ground on what you said above "I fail to see the difference between watching sex on the BIG screen and seeing it done in real life"? And would you have walked away from it with no intent to try to help her or watched also. Not trying to be mean, I just do not understand. I do not buy porn, watch porn or have anything to do with porn because it disgusts me, I also believe there are some who is into porn on their own free will and there are those who are doing porn but not on their own free will. I have no sympothy for those there on their own free will, but I do for those who for what ever reason are involved in the porn world not on their own free will, ie-unknowingly given drugs to a person and then sex acts are done on this drugged person be it made for a porn movie or the person who gave the drugs own perverted desires-whatever, a young person being taken advantage of who knows no better, and so on and so forth. Don't get me wrong, I know some people have done things willingly and wished later they had not. That is a different thing, we all learn by our own mistakes and also learn by those of others. It still does not make wrong things right to do. The right thing to do would have been to try to stop something like that KJ was said to have been watching instead of watching. I can guarantee you if he had tried to stop this from going on, at least tried to do everything he could to stop it, I would think differently about him on (watching this sex act) subject than I do now. He willingly stayed and watched.

[FDInLaw]

I disagree, why would anyone in the right mind do that? Why would anyone stand around and watch while his low life buddies have sex with an unconscious girl. It was reported she did not remember anything, what does that say. If it was your daughter that this had been do to, would you still think it is no different than being on a big screen TV, you did state you already rescued one child that was expose to a sex act, right? Why did you do that if it is no different, it is in the real world also and it is just as wrong. I'm confused by your statements, would you have tried find a way to get this young girl away from these boys like you did the young girl who witnessed the "self service pump" or would you have stood your ground on what you said above "I fail to see the difference between watching sex on the BIG screen and seeing it done in real life"? And would you have walked away from it with no intent to try to help her or watched also. Not trying to be mean, I just do not understand. I do not buy porn, watch porn or have anything to do with porn because it disgusts me, I also believe there are some who is into porn on their own free will and there are those who are doing porn but not on their own free will. I have no sympothy for those there on their own free will, but I do for those who for what ever reason are involved in the porn world not on their own free will, ie-unknowingly given drugs to a person and then sex acts are done on this drugged person be it made for a porn movie or the person who gave the drugs own perverted desires-whatever, a young person being taken advantage of who knows no better, and so on and so forth. Don't get me wrong, I know some people have done things willingly and wished later they had not. That is a different thing, we all learn by our own mistakes and also learn by those of others. It still does not make wrong things right to do. The right thing to do would have been to try to stop something like that KJ was said to have been watching instead of watching. I can guarantee you if he had tried to stop this from going on, at least tried to do everything he could to stop it, I would think differently about him on (watching this sex act) subject than I do now. He willingly stayed and watched.Excellent post. ITA!

[guppie]

Sorry - I will have to retract the use of the word fact - this is obviously just my opinion that I obtained by reading of the account of Kevin being scared about talking to his mother about getting a bad grade. Kevin and Nona talked at 3:00 am about this subject. I assumed it was a loving conversation.

The one fact we do have is that Nona sent a loving text message at 9:06 am on the morning of December 15th:

“Good morning, cuddle-muffin. I love you. Have a great day.”

This fact alone presents me a far different picture than the one painted by others as a relationship that was on the way out.

Thanks for catching me on this...

Brent

how do you know what a two person conversation was about?

p.s. have you ever been the abused female in an controlling, abusive relationship? if you had, you would know that MANY woman go back to their abusers repeatedly (actually there is a national average quoted as 7 times). this is highly common. it doesn't surprise me at all that Nona would spring back momentarily if she were in this type of situation. there is a psychological factor in abusive situations, which for my own purposes i refer to as "temporary brain damage." i can also tell you that many of these women do not report the abuse to their loved ones or the authorities. it is a lot of times kept a secret until after they are out.

there is a lot of info out there about this. however, i would not suggest wikipedia when researching emotional or physical abuse by a bf/husband. just a suggestion.

quote from The Gift of Fear about a case involving spousal murder: "News reporters questioning neighbors about the accused murderer were told, 'He seemed so normal.' One said, 'I cannot imagine he would kill.' If you cannot imagine it, you cannot predict it."

we need to wake up and start seeing the signs.

[FDInLaw]

If you ever need a chuckle google your own nic. This is what I found:
disappointed: What is really sad is that Freshwater posts under another nic as well, FDInLaw, which makes her biases really known. She does ban left and right on personal bias, not subjective moderation-- been there done that, more than once. Yes, she does allow the namecalling, ganging up on, and everything else Shea spoke of go on for certain posters, but if you are one of the ones whose opinion is opposite hers, then you get slammed with infractions and eventually banned over idiotic stuff and you can be allowed to be called any and everything. Then, your IP address gets banned to even keep you from reading. I contacted courttv, to no avail of course. There is no freedom of speech here and it is all about bias at courttv's crimelibrary.... It's really pretty pathetic and sad to be such an analytical control freak you have to ruin everything just to get your personal digs in.....

Posted by disappointed | July 28, 2007 7:42 AM

http://www.tvweek.com/blogs/marianne-paskowski/2006/11/court_tv_to_out_turkeys.php

I about busted a gut!!! :biggrin:

[guppie]

I still fail to see the difference between watching sex on the BIG screen and seeing it done in real life. We definitely live in a perverted world. It just makes me sick when I see all the damage that is done in this world and the ROOT cause is tied to violence and sex in the media.

When I was living in Reseda, California, there was a young girl living across the street. Her father (a postal worker) would watch porn until the wee hours of the morning. Sometimes she would get up and go to the bathroom and would see him using the *self-service pump* and he wouldn't even stop. We found a way to get her out of there and she lived with our family for a while.

We now have sick and twisted video games (Grand Theft Auto for one) that blur the lines between reality and fantasy. Where will it end? How is it that the peddlers of trash can hide behind the tenet of "Freedom of Speech" - which was intended to protect people who wanted to be able to speak their mind about the workings of government. One of these days if I can scrape up enough money I am going to take them all to court to see if I can right this wrong.

I wonder how Nona's life would have turned out if her real father hadn't abused her (this is something that totally eludes me - how can anyone sexually molest their own daughter? I have three beautiful girls and I would rather kill myself than cause them any harm). In the Bible it states:

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. (Matthew 18:6)

I hope and pray that Nona gets the justice she deserves in this life. I also hope that her loved ones can find some form of peace.

Brent

umm, last time i checked, porn involved paid actors. i'm just not seeing how you compare a gang-bang in person with paying money to watch actors on a screen. (i do use the term "acting" loosely, however, that is what they are being paid to do, and i believe it is referred to as acting under legal guidelines). it is for "entertainment" purposes.
are you implying that the voyerism and taking turns having sex with that girl was a form of "entertainment?" (since you are comparing)
should i even remind you that it could have easily been rape if in fact she did not consent. many statutory laws specify that if the woman is intoxicated or drugged, she cannot legally consent to sex. if a woman is deemed to have consumed so much alcohol that she is incapable of agreeing to have sex, the man is far more likely to be convicted of rape.

that is law in many states. i will do some research to see about AR. so how do you feel about child porn, brent?

[FDInLaw]

I really want to do a quick review of some of the pieces of evidence. What do we know about these items, etc.? I am going to make a list, and then if anyone has anything to add please feel free!

Underwear
Knife
Blood Spots A) Light Switch B) Oven Door C) Carpet
Bloody Print on bulb (Although everyone already knows who this belongs to)
Fingernail
Condom Wrapper
Door Stick
Cell Phone
Cell Phone Battery

Okay, well I thought this was a good idea, but then I blanked.FYI, did start a new thread for this. Will be doing some digging when I get a chance.

[guppie]

If you ever need a chuckle google your own nic. This is what I found:
disappointed: What is really sad is that Freshwater posts under another nic as well, FDInLaw, which makes her biases really known. She does ban left and right on personal bias, not subjective moderation-- been there done that, more than once. Yes, she does allow the namecalling, ganging up on, and everything else Shea spoke of go on for certain posters, but if you are one of the ones whose opinion is opposite hers, then you get slammed with infractions and eventually banned over idiotic stuff and you can be allowed to be called any and everything. Then, your IP address gets banned to even keep you from reading. I contacted courttv, to no avail of course. There is no freedom of speech here and it is all about bias at courttv's crimelibrary.... It's really pretty pathetic and sad to be such an analytical control freak you have to ruin everything just to get your personal digs in.....

Posted by disappointed | July 28, 2007 7:42 AM

http://www.tvweek.com/blogs/marianne-paskowski/2006/11/court_tv_to_out_turkeys.php

I about busted a gut!!! :biggrin:

awww, poor pitiful person. that's funny. i never saw in there where "disappointed" took any personal accountability for his/her own words in postings...hmmm? that seems to be a common theme among KJ fans.

[FDInLaw]

awww, poor pitiful person. that's funny. i never saw in there where "disappointed" took any personal accountability for his/her own words in postings...hmmm? that seems to be a common theme among KJ fans.
It's mostly funny to me because I am not FW! :tongue:

[tiggergreen]

umm, last time i checked, porn involved paid actors. i'm just not seeing how you compare a gang-bang in person with paying money to watch actors on a screen. (i do use the term "acting" loosely, however, that is what they are being paid to do, and i believe it is referred to as acting under legal guidelines). it is for "entertainment" purposes.
are you implying that the voyerism and taking turns having sex with that girl was a form of "entertainment?" (since you are comparing)
should i even remind you that it could have easily been rape if in fact she did not consent. many statutory laws specify that if the woman is intoxicated or drugged, she cannot legally consent to sex. if a woman is deemed to have consumed so much alcohol that she is incapable of agreeing to have sex, the man is far more likely to be convicted of rape.

that is law in many states. i will do some research to see about AR. so how do you feel about child porn, brent?

Obviously I think child porn is detestable. I have also stated several times that I think that any kind of porn is wrong. Yes, watching someone else have sex is wrong. I was just saying that I do not see a difference between watching it in real life and seeing it on the big screen.

Besides, this was not a child - she was not yet 21 but she was 18 or older... I have never been to parties (do not understand their allure) and will hope that my children will also avoid them. I have never imbibed alcohol in my entire life - I prefer to act drunk rather than be drunk.

It was an unfortunate incident and I hope that the young lady will attempt to steer clear of heavy drinking in the future.

Believe me, I am entirely in the camp that believes in strong moral character and have no plans to ever leave...

Brent

[tiggergreen]

I disagree, why would anyone in the right mind do that? Why would anyone stand around and watch while his low life buddies have sex with an unconscious girl. It was reported she did not remember anything, what does that say. If it was your daughter that this had been do to, would you still think it is no different than being on a big screen TV, you did state you already rescued one child that was expose to a sex act, right? Why did you do that if it is no different, it is in the real world also and it is just as wrong. I'm confused by your statements, would you have tried find a way to get this young girl away from these boys like you did the young girl who witnessed the "self service pump" or would you have stood your ground on what you said above "I fail to see the difference between watching sex on the BIG screen and seeing it done in real life"? And would you have walked away from it with no intent to try to help her or watched also. Not trying to be mean, I just do not understand. I do not buy porn, watch porn or have anything to do with porn because it disgusts me, I also believe there are some who is into porn on their own free will and there are those who are doing porn but not on their own free will. I have no sympothy for those there on their own free will, but I do for those who for what ever reason are involved in the porn world not on their own free will, ie-unknowingly given drugs to a person and then sex acts are done on this drugged person be it made for a porn movie or the person who gave the drugs own perverted desires-whatever, a young person being taken advantage of who knows no better, and so on and so forth. Don't get me wrong, I know some people have done things willingly and wished later they had not. That is a different thing, we all learn by our own mistakes and also learn by those of others. It still does not make wrong things right to do. The right thing to do would have been to try to stop something like that KJ was said to have been watching instead of watching. I can guarantee you if he had tried to stop this from going on, at least tried to do everything he could to stop it, I would think differently about him on (watching this sex act) subject than I do now. He willingly stayed and watched.

I would have shut that party down right away if I had been there. I would have made sure that each and every one of them returned home safely. Two wrongs never make a right. Although I compare off-screen to on-screen, I have never stated that I agreed with the behavior. I was attempting to show that we all have different values and what is reprehensible to one is satisfactory to another.

I am happily married and would never ever cheat on my wife - my heart is locked forever. I am in the relationship for better or worse and will stick with her through any ordeal - indeed, I would even die for her.

I do however still think that it helps each and every one of us if we can see things from another's viewpoint and that the world would be a better, safer place.

Brent

[lorettalockhorn]

I would have shut that party down right away if I had been there. I would have made sure that each and every one of them returned home safely. Two wrongs never make a right. Although I compare off-screen to on-screen, I have never stated that I agreed with the behavior. I was attempting to show that we all have different values and what is reprehensible to one is satisfactory to another.

I am happily married and would never ever cheat on my wife - my heart is locked forever. I am in the relationship for better or worse and will stick with her through any ordeal - indeed, I would even die for her.

I do however still think that it helps each and every one of us if we can see things from another's viewpoint and that the world would be a better, safer place.
Brent

The acceptance of voyeurism and taking part in a gangbang as anything but aberrant will never make my world a better place. I haven't seen the Whitesides take any steps to assure the community that this type of behavior isn't acceptable on their property and won't be allowed again. Instead, they filed a lawsuit which kept the incident in the public eye, inviting more scorn. The Simmons family wrote a ridiculous letter to the editor that I interpreted as bashing LE for investigating the matter and whined about the damage it did to their son. There have been allusions and rumors that the complainant was just a ***** and that she was threatened. Gee, if she's a *****, I guess that would make Jeff a whoremonger; he admitted to having sex with her.

[guppie]

I would have shut that party down right away if I had been there. I would have made sure that each and every one of them returned home safely. Two wrongs never make a right. Although I compare off-screen to on-screen, I have never stated that I agreed with the behavior. I was attempting to show that we all have different values and what is reprehensible to one is satisfactory to another.

I am happily married and would never ever cheat on my wife - my heart is locked forever. I am in the relationship for better or worse and will stick with her through any ordeal - indeed, I would even die for her.

I do however still think that it helps each and every one of us if we can see things from another's viewpoint and that the world would be a better, safer place.

Brent

didn't you ever hear about using the word "never?" we are all human. you may have just jinxed yourself on that. anyway, your argument that voyeurism while a gang-bang was going on and the actual gang-bang itself is no different than watching a pornographic movie is incomprehensible to me.

[jonikay]

Obviously I think child porn is detestable. I have also stated several times that I think that any kind of porn is wrong. Yes, watching someone else have sex is wrong. I was just saying that I do not see a difference between watching it in real life and seeing it on the big screen.

Besides, this was not a child - she was not yet 21 but she was 18 or older... I have never been to parties (do not understand their allure) and will hope that my children will also avoid them. I have never imbibed alcohol in my entire life - I prefer to act drunk rather than be drunk.

It was an unfortunate incident and I hope that the young lady will attempt to steer clear of heavy drinking in the future.

Believe me, I am entirely in the camp that believes in strong moral character and have no plans to ever leave...

Brent
Does a scenario of a young man (or young men) watching a porn film and watching your daughter having sex in real life differ in any way? Picturing your own daughter with a few young men or a few young men watching a porn film . . . is there a difference to you?

[upallnight]

I would have shut that party down right away if I had been there. I would have made sure that each and every one of them returned home safely. Two wrongs never make a right. Although I compare off-screen to on-screen, I have never stated that I agreed with the behavior. I was attempting to show that we all have different values and what is reprehensible to one is satisfactory to another.

I am happily married and would never ever cheat on my wife - my heart is locked forever. I am in the relationship for better or worse and will stick with her through any ordeal - indeed, I would even die for her.

I do however still think that it helps each and every one of us if we can see things from another's viewpoint and that the world would be a better, safer place.

Brent

No, I still don't understand and never will. How do you could think this specific viewpoint you stated before could make the world a better, safer place? It goes against everything I believe. Yes, it is reprehensible to me and yes I do have a different view on moral and value beliefs.

[tiggergreen]

Does a scenario of a young man (or young men) watching a porn film and watching your daughter having sex in real life differ in any way? Picturing your own daughter with a few young men or a few young men watching a porn film . . . is there a difference to you?

No - there is no difference to me - they are both aberrations - extremely evil. However there is a cause and effect where one influences the other. I have seen in my own lifetime how our society is going down the tubes. Until we remove the one (media), we will continue to have the other (rape, orgies, etc) and vice versa.

However, I think you are missing my main point - just because someone is tempted sexually, does not mean that person is a murderer.

In fact the very first gods that man made up were created to allow the bypass of moral laws - which is why they became so popular so fast. Sexual immorality is a prevalent theme in the short history of man.

Brent

[jonikay]

No - there is no difference to me - they are both aberrations - extremely evil. However there is a cause and effect where one influences the other. I have seen in my own lifetime how our society is going down the tubes. Until we remove the one (media), we will continue to have the other (rape, orgies, etc) and vice versa.

However, I think you are missing my main point - just because someone is tempted sexually, does not mean that person is a murderer.

In fact the very first gods that man made up were created to allow the bypass of moral laws - which is why they became so popular so fast. Sexual immorality is a prevalent theme in the short history of man.

Brent
I said nothing about murder, just wondering if a young man watching porn or sc***ing your daughter in front of his buds would be different to you. A sexual predator does not a murderer make . . . necessarily. I understand that point but I must say that I am honestly appalled that you wouldn't feel differently if your own daughter was the main star in a gang bang as opposed to a porn star.

[hawgustusgloop]

However, I think you are missing my main point - just because someone is tempted sexually, does not mean that person is a murderer.



Brent,

All those ridiculous posts just to make that "main point"??? I don't think anyone here believes that because someone is tempted sexually means he is a murderer, or said anything to that effect. I don't think anyone even went as far as you did--suggesting that watching a dirty movie is "extremely evil."

[guppie]

No - there is no difference to me - they are both aberrations - extremely evil. However there is a cause and effect where one influences the other. I have seen in my own lifetime how our society is going down the tubes. Until we remove the one (media), we will continue to have the other (rape, orgies, etc) and vice versa.

However, I think you are missing my main point - just because someone is tempted sexually, does not mean that person is a murderer.

In fact the very first gods that man made up were created to allow the bypass of moral laws - which is why they became so popular so fast. Sexual immorality is a prevalent theme in the short history of man.

Brent


i feel you constantly contradict yourself. let's not get off onto moral, preachy stuff for 3 pages, ok. let's try to figure out the truth about Nona's murder. moving on...

[upallnight]

I said nothing about murder, just wondering if a young man watching porn or sc***ing your daughter in front of his buds would be different to you. A sexual predator does not a murderer make . . . necessarily. I understand that point but I must say that I am honestly appalled that you wouldn't feel differently if your own daughter was the main star in a gang bang as opposed to a porn star.

OMG Brent, do you not see what Jonikay is saying? This is sad! Do you teach your children these evil things are ok to do, and that it is ok for these evil things to be done to them or what? :cuss: :shrug:

[ifIwereU]

I know everyone has gotten off topic...but I wanted to put my 2 cents in about "kids today"....don't think that a person with a sadistic perversion is only going to be satisified watching a "scripted sex tape" ....as with most all fantasies...people will often graduate to the next step....sometime the person can find willing partners to satisfy their urges...but in the times they can't they pray on unwitting and unwilling victims... its about power and control......I am saying this in response to tiggers comments about "can't we all just get along"....those that choose to watch porn and play violent sadistic video games can become predisposed to "act-out" the behaviors because that's what gets their jollies off....and some cases when the porn no longer does the trick they troll the streets looking to live the fantasy as opposed just thinking about it.

[loulou58]

I have been reading this board for quite sometime, but just decided I had to create an account so that I could say what i have been thinking.
I must say that from day one I suspected KJ was guilty, and i have my reasons as does everyone else on this board. ( my reasons are his actions and inconsistancies, etc).
Anywho, I am curious as to if anyone has heard anything about the mayors son I think it was. I had a friend tell me the other day that he was "fooling around" with her and left town shortly after her murder. It seems I heard something about someone that was the son of a mayor or something early on , but nothing mentioned lately. Does anyone know anything about this?

[jonikay]

I have been reading this board for quite sometime, but just decided I had to create an account so that I could say what i have been thinking.
I must say that from day one I suspected KJ was guilty, and i have my reasons as does everyone else on this board. ( my reasons are his actions and inconsistancies, etc).
Anywho, I am curious as to if anyone has heard anything about the mayors son I think it was. I had a friend tell me the other day that he was "fooling around" with her and left town shortly after her murder. It seems I heard something about someone that was the son of a mayor or something early on , but nothing mentioned lately. Does anyone know anything about this?
Some insight into this rumor . . .
http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=10466&Search=nona%20dirksmeyer

The mayor's son was apparently not in town at the time of the murder. When the rumors started getting hot and heavy on Bubba on this board (page 2!!!-we've come along way!), the courier published this. Folks have been watching this board for a loooong time.

[loulou58]

Some insight into this rumor . . .
http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=10466&Search=nona%20dirksmeyer

The mayor's son was apparently not in town at the time of the murder. When the rumors started getting hot and heavy on Bubba on this board (page 2!!!-we've come along way!), the courier published this. Folks have been watching this board for a loooong time.



I knew I never heard anything else about it. IMO the investigation was sortof sloppy. Let me go back to page 2 . Thanks for the insight!

[guppie]

I knew I never heard anything else about it. IMO the investigation was sortof sloppy. Let me go back to page 2 . Thanks for the insight!

obviously there were some errors in the investigation, but then again, how many murders are they investigating per year in Russellville, AR? i doubt they had a lot of practice for this sorta thing.

[loulou58]

obviously there were some errors in the investigation, but then again, how many murders are they investigating per year in Russellville, AR? i doubt they had a lot of practice for this sorta thing.


There are not as many as large areas I'm sure, but I can think of several deaths that have been investigated in the Russellville area. It seems it was fairly easy to point the finger at KJ, especially since his prints were on the bulb.I have no clue who "Bubba" is, but the way the investigation was handled, nothing would suprise me at this point.Seems awful convenient that Bubba was outta town. Someone mentions his name and Oh nO , he was outta town. I know several locals are curious about him. Why would the courier or RPD whoever make it public that Bubba was outta town based on Rumors appearing on a forum? At the time of the murder I am sure there were not that many people following this board, more locals following the courier than posters here, so why make a public announcement that Bubba was outta town, it seems it must have been mentioned elsewhere other than a forum board.

Only my opinion!

[loulou58]

Im just trying to understand a few things and you guys seem like you are fairly educated on this investigation. Just seems that things got Hush Hush real quick when the Bubba stuff was mentioned early on.

[jonikay]

Im just trying to understand a few things and you guys seem like you are fairly educated on this investigation. Just seems that things got Hush Hush real quick when the Bubba stuff was mentioned early on.
Things got hush hush where? I'm not understanding. Are you talking about on this forum? If so, it wasn't only page 2 but even into the 30s.

[loulou58]

Things got hush hush where? I'm not understanding. Are you talking about on this forum? If so, it wasn't only page 2 but even into the 30s.

Yes I am from that area and I never heard anything about Bubba until I read it in the Courier that it was rumored about him. My question is, how was it decided to be a rumor. I mean Duane was questioned, correct? Mr Martin was questioned, correct? So was Bubba questioned or was it, no need to question him, he was outta town type thing. I read the Courier EVERYDAY, and I just wondered if he was questioned, I know that to my knowledge there was no indication he was just questioned, just nipped in the butt that it was a rumor and that was it. It was like a public announcement to get it out in the open it was not Bubba.Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he was questioned, just trying to make sense of it.

[guppie]

There are not as many as large areas I'm sure, but I can think of several deaths that have been investigated in the Russellville area. It seems it was fairly easy to point the finger at KJ, especially since his prints were on the bulb.I have no clue who "Bubba" is, but the way the investigation was handled, nothing would suprise me at this point.Seems awful convenient that Bubba was outta town. Someone mentions his name and Oh nO , he was outta town. I know several locals are curious about him. Why would the courier or RPD whoever make it public that Bubba was outta town based on Rumors appearing on a forum? At the time of the murder I am sure there were not that many people following this board, more locals following the courier than posters here, so why make a public announcement that Bubba was outta town, it seems it must have been mentioned elsewhere other than a forum board.

Only my opinion!

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=10466&Search=nona%20dirksmeyer

where in this article are you seeing anything identifying the mayor's son or that he was out of town? please state your source. i would like to read this. i do realize there were rumors, but i like to base my thoughts on what comes "out of the horse's mouth," what is reported in the news, or stated in court testimony...not hearsay. hearsay among peers does not seem nearly as protected and criminally enforceable as things they print in the paper. i believe libel is much easier to prove because it is written, and it reaches a larger audience. therefore, i am much more inclined to be persuaded by info subject to libel laws. i think Loretta will correct me if i am wrong on that.

please state your source. thanks.

[jonikay]

Yes I am from that area and I never heard anything about Bubba until I read it in the Courier that it was rumored about him. My question is, how was it decided to be a rumor. I mean Duane was questioned, correct? Mr Martin was questioned, correct? So was Bubba questioned or was it, no need to question him, he was outta town type thing. I read the Courier EVERYDAY, and I just wondered if he was questioned, I know that to my knowledge there was no indication he was just questioned, just nipped in the butt that it was a rumor and that was it. It was like a public announcement to get it out in the open it was not Bubba.Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he was questioned, just trying to make sense of it.
IIRC, they found that he was verifiably out of town at the time the murder occurred, therefore the need for extensive questioning became moot. This is all memory of course (which was never stated in the papers so could be rumor), no links. Someone willing to back me up on this one? Anyway, lou, if you think that Bubba should be a real suspect, supply us with evidence and theory and I, for one, am more than willing to hear it out. I am not against picking apart every person of interest in this case. What do you think?

[lorettalockhorn]

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=10466&Search=nona%20dirksmeyer

where in this article are you seeing anything identifying the mayor's son or that he was out of town? please state your source. i would like to read this. i do realize there were rumors, but i like to base my thoughts on what comes "out of the horse's mouth," what is reported in the news, or stated in court testimony...not hearsay. hearsay among peers does not seem nearly as protected and criminally enforceable as things they print in the paper. i believe libel is much easier to prove because it is written, and it reaches a larger audience. therefore, i am much more inclined to be persuaded by info subject to libel laws. i think Loretta will correct me if i am wrong on that.
please state your source. thanks.

I think Loretta's expertise on libel is only as good as google!

[guppie]

Im just trying to understand a few things and you guys seem like you are fairly educated on this investigation. Just seems that things got Hush Hush real quick when the Bubba stuff was mentioned early on.


seems the person you are talking about wasn't a viable suspect or he wouldn't have been eliminated. considering there was a not guilty verdict for KJ, i bet the PD and the prosec's office has checked any "original suspects" many times over. JMO

[guppie]

I think Loretta's expertise on libel is only as good as google!


darn, you're no help!:punch:

[loulou58]

I had heard that he left town after the murder, jonikay above informed that "apparently he was outta town" I personally have no clue where the boy was. Rumors where flying here that it was the mayors son, then shortly after, the courier published the article about it being rumored that it was a city officials relative. Im just saying that there is still talk about Bubba locally, I have not thought much about him (as I was convinced it was KJ) until recently when I heard his name mentioned again.

[lorettalockhorn]

Yes I am from that area and I never heard anything about Bubba until I read it in the Courier that it was rumored about him. My question is, how was it decided to be a rumor. I mean Duane was questioned, correct? Mr Martin was questioned, correct? So was Bubba questioned or was it, no need to question him, he was outta town type thing. I read the Courier EVERYDAY, and I just wondered if he was questioned, I know that to my knowledge there was no indication he was just questioned, just nipped in the butt that it was a rumor and that was it. It was like a public announcement to get it out in the open it was not Bubba.Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he was questioned, just trying to make sense of it.


Believe that Bacon stated that forty - fifty people were questioned, but have never seen any reference to whom those people were.

[jonikay]

I had heard that he left town after the murder, jonikay above informed that "apparently he was outta town" I personally have no clue where the boy was. Rumors where flying here that it was the mayors son, then shortly after, the courier published the article about it being rumored that it was a city officials relative. Im just saying that there is still talk about Bubba locally, I have not thought much about him (as I was convinced it was KJ) until recently when I heard his name mentioned again.
IMO, pretty much everybody is being mentioned again. Being that a special prosecutor is on the case, he or she will surely question any and everybody that he or she believes to be worth questioning.

[loulou58]

I have absolutely no evidence against anyone in this case. I am just curious about him since obviously there is still talk locally about him. Everything i know, I have either read here or from a newssource. However, sometimes I think people that "are somebody" don't always get treated like your average old Joe. So I wondered if it was proven he was indeed out of town or what?

[lorettalockhorn]

I had heard that he left town after the murder, jonikay above informed that "apparently he was outta town" I personally have no clue where the boy was. Rumors where flying here that it was the mayors son, then shortly after, the courier published the article about it being rumored that it was a city officials relative. Im just saying that there is still talk about Bubba locally, I have not thought much about him (as I was convinced it was KJ) until recently when I heard his name mentioned again.

I took The Courier's article to have been published in response to the "radio report"'s assertion that there had been a confession and an arrest.

[guppie]

Originally Posted by loulou58
Yes I am from that area and I never heard anything about Bubba until I read it in the Courier that it was rumored about him. My question is, how was it decided to be a rumor. I mean Duane was questioned, correct? Mr Martin was questioned, correct? So was Bubba questioned or was it, no need to question him, he was outta town type thing. I read the Courier EVERYDAY, and I just wondered if he was questioned, I know that to my knowledge there was no indication he was just questioned, just nipped in the butt that it was a rumor and that was it. It was like a public announcement to get it out in the open it was not Bubba.Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he was questioned, just trying to make sense of it.


IIRC, they found that he was verifiably out of town at the time the murder occurred, therefore the need for extensive questioning became moot. This is all memory of course (which was never stated in the papers so could be rumor), no links. Someone willing to back me up on this one? Anyway, lou, if you think that Bubba should be a real suspect, supply us with evidence and theory and I, for one, am more than willing to hear it out. I am not against picking apart every person of interest in this case. What do you think?

loulou, i am with jonikay. if you have reason to legitimately suspect the mayor's son, please provide us with links, sources, or whatever, and i will consider it with an open mind.

[loulou58]

IMO, pretty much everybody is being mentioned again. Being that a special prosecutor is on the case, he or she will surely question any and everybody that he or she believes to be worth questioning.


Yes, I am glad it has been given to a special prosecuter for that reason, maybe shed some new light.

[guppie]

I had heard that he left town after the murder, jonikay above informed that "apparently he was outta town" I personally have no clue where the boy was. Rumors where flying here that it was the mayors son, then shortly after, the courier published the article about it being rumored that it was a city officials relative. Im just saying that there is still talk about Bubba locally, I have not thought much about him (as I was convinced it was KJ) until recently when I heard his name mentioned again.

so what changed your mind, the verdict or something else? maybe you could help us understand what changed your mind. this interests me very much. what things did you base your change of mind on?

[guppie]

I have absolutely no evidence against anyone in this case. I am just curious about him since obviously there is still talk locally about him. Everything i know, I have either read here or from a newssource. However, sometimes I think people that "are somebody" don't always get treated like your average old Joe. So I wondered if it was proven he was indeed out of town or what?

that still doesn't make me inclined to believe anyone in law enforcement would overlook a potential MURDERER. i think public officials and their families do get overlooked for more minor offenses, so i would agree there.

[loulou58]

so what changed your mind, the verdict or something else? maybe you could help us understand what changed your mind. this interests me very much. what things did you base your change of mind on?

I have not necessarily CHanged my mind, I was not pleased with the verdict at the time. I was just curious if Bubba was actually checked out, I mean IF it were rumored that some sex offender down the road was involved, don't you think that the investigators would have been there knocking on his door. Of course they would even if they heard or he told them he was outta town at the time. Investigators would not just assume he ( a sex offender) was telling the truth.They would want a alibi. They would check into it even if it was only a rumor, at least I would hope they would. I dont have any evidence against Bubba, I am just curious if it was actually looked into? I do know the boy has been in trouble with the law in the past, at least thats what the courthouse news in the courier said a while back. ( before the murder)

[loulou58]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonikay
IIRC, they found that he was verifiably out of town at the time the murder occurred, therefore the need for extensive questioning became moot. This is all memory of course (which was never stated in the papers so could be rumor), no links. Someone willing to back me up on this one? Anyway, lou, if you think that Bubba should be a real suspect, supply us with evidence and theory and I, for one, am more than willing to hear it out. I am not against picking apart every person of interest in this case. What do you think?


I am not saying he is a viable suspect, but if I did think that I would go to the police not a public forum. Am I most certainly am not against picking apart any person of interest either as if that were my daughter I would expect the police to do exactly that.

[guppie]

I have not necessarily CHanged my mind, I was not pleased with the verdict at the time. I was just curious if Bubba was actually checked out, I mean IF it were rumored that some sex offender down the road was involved, don't you think that the investigators would have been there knocking on his door. Of course they would even if they heard or he told them he was outta town at the time. Investigators would not just assume he ( a sex offender) was telling the truth.They would want a alibi. They would check into it even if it was only a rumor, at least I would hope they would. I dont have any evidence against Bubba, I am just curious if it was actually looked into? I do know the boy has been in trouble with the law in the past, at least thats what the courthouse news in the courier said a while back. ( before the murder)
Originally Posted by loulou58
as I was convinced it was KJ

sorry, i guess i misinterpreted your use of the word "was." i will number my questions in hopes you will answer since i know i am asking many. yes, ya'll, i am back to my numeric method!

1) how do you know investigators didn't knock on someone's door?
2) what has led you to think that every possible suspect wasn't "looked into?"
3) why are you so deadset on this Bubba thing? why not one of the other originals?
4) what you are basing your beliefs on at this point? (the verdict or something else)
5) what kind of trouble has "the boy" been in with the law? you can just give me the link, and i will read it so you don't have to get detailed.

please answer these because i am interested. you have my ear...umm, i mean my eyes.

[loulou58]

sorry, i guess i misinterpreted your use of the word "was." i will number my questions in hopes you will answer since i know i am asking many. yes, ya'll, i am back to my numeric method!

1) how do you know investigators didn't knock on someone's door?
2) what has led you to think that every possible suspect wasn't "looked into?"
3) why are you so deadset on this Bubba thing? why not one of the other originals?
4) what you are basing your beliefs on at this point? (the verdict or something else)
5) what kind of trouble has "the boy" been in with the law? you can just give me the link, and i will read it so you don't have to get detailed.

please answer these because i am interested. you have my ear...umm, i mean my eyes.

1. I dont know they didn't, thats why I am here asking you guys.
2. I never said that.
3. I have been curious anout Duane as well earlier in the inverstigation, but never could determine what his motive would be, i will say that his interview seeed a bit strange on 48 hours tho.
4. I have know beliefs about bubba, just curious..does that make sense?
5. Drugs I believe..I do not know his real first name so I can not search the link.

I was just curious about Bubba thats all. Until I see more , I will most likely remain thinking KJ is guilty even though the verdict says otherwise.

[guppie]

question to anyone: what is "bubba's" real first name. i can't look him up in the Courier without it. although i feel there is nothing to this, i should at least be objective enough to check him out for myself.

[loulou58]

question to anyone: what is "bubba's" real first name. i can't look him up in the Courier without it. although i feel there is nothing to this, i should at least be objective enough to check him out for myself.

99.9% sure I found it

http://www.couriernews.com/archivedrecords.php?ID=180&Search=finley%20turner

[loulou58]

For some reason I am thinking he was a tech student. I know he graduated tech in 2007. (At least that is what the tech website said)If he was, would he not have been taking exams at about the same day(round about) as Nona? Just wondering?

[guppie]

99.9% sure I found it

http://www.couriernews.com/archivedrecords.php?ID=180&Search=finley%20turner

looks like bubba allegedly smoked some pot. was he convicted? they even post dismissals in our paper. i only see the charge in the article. anyway, i looked this up because i have never heard of a strong link between marijuana usage and violent crimes.
http://cannabisstatistics.com/
"65% of people arrested for marijuana-related crimes are for simple possession."
does anyone know of stats showing that pot smoking leads to rage and murder? i know that abusive relationships lead to murder quite often, but i don't know stats on marijuana usage. any alleged pot smokers in the house?

[guppie]

For some reason I am thinking he was a tech student. I know he graduated tech in 2007. (At least that is what the tech website said)If he was, would he not have been taking exams at about the same day(round about) as Nona? Just wondering?

some people dont have exams all the way through the week. Nona was murdered on a Thurs. you must really be on this guy's scent if you are looking at his school and graduation info.

[sololobo]

some people dont have exams all the way through the week. Nona was murdered on a Thurs. you must really be on this guy's scent if you are looking at his school and graduation info.


There has been and still are rumors about Bubba's involvement circulating in this community. These are just rumors, no basis in reported facts. You will not read them in the paper or see them reported on TV. They are discussed at the office, on the street corner, at the coffee shop, etc.

Here are some of the rumors I've heard:

RPD did not like the mayor. Bacon was appointed by the mayor. When Bubba's name was first brought up, the mayor said lets not even go there. RPD did not go there. Bacon resigns and the Mayor did not run for re-election. Was a deal struck?

I don't think so. It sounds a little far-fetched to me:) But these divisive rumors should be addressed and proven wrong for the sake of our community. The information concerning his where-abouts can be made public and these rumors concerning Bubba will dissappear immediately. I believe that's all LouLou wants.

[sololobo]

The vehicle Kevin was driving that day, laden with garbage and donations for Marva, was not seen at the apartment complex. Nor was any other vehicle spotted there during the time span of the murder. This tends to make me believe someone in walking distance committed the crime. Since the DNA was identified, I tend to believe it was from a database of criminals. Did an ex-con live in walking distance of Nona's apartment? Long ago, I checked the sex offenders' registry and found none of them in walking distance. However, if an ex-con lived nearby, what was he incarcerated for? This is pure conjecture on my part but it might be fun to discuss this:) Was the killer on foot? Was the killer an ex-con?

[christina]

The vehicle Kevin was driving that day, laden with garbage and donations for Marva, was not seen at the apartment complex. Nor was any other vehicle spotted there during the time span of the murder. This tends to make me believe someone in walking distance committed the crime. Since the DNA was identified, I tend to believe it was from a database of criminals. Did an ex-con live in walking distance of Nona's apartment? Long ago, I checked the sex offenders' registry and found none of them in walking distance. However, if an ex-con lived nearby, what was he incarcerated for? This is pure conjecture on my part but it might be fun to discuss this:) Was the killer on foot? Was the killer an ex-con?

I remember this being discussed earlier on the thread. I hadn't thought about the car situation, none being spotted at the time the murder took place.
As for the Marva donations- rumor had it the prosecution went to Marva and retrieved a pair of shoes that were int he donated clothes form the Jones'. They were sent away to be tested for blood and returned positive- for animal blood-as they were a pair of Mr. Jones old hunting boots.
Another sign to me that investigating the murder became investigating Jones.

[optimumprimal78]

Solo,

I have heard many of these same rumors. I wouldn't surprise me to find out that he might be involved. I have heard that he was into some really bad things and either owed some people some money or was in trouble. If I remember correctly didn't he leave town for awhile?

[FDInLaw]

I remember this being discussed earlier on the thread. I hadn't thought about the car situation, none being spotted at the time the murder took place.
As for the Marva donations- rumor had it the prosecution went to Marva and retrieved a pair of shoes that were int he donated clothes form the Jones'. They were sent away to be tested for blood and returned positive- for animal blood-as they were a pair of Mr. Jones old hunting boots.
Another sign to me that investigating the murder became investigating Jones.Animal blood? Boots? Where did you get this stuff?

The fact that Marva's would be checked by the RPD is a sign that they were doing their job IMO. :patriot:

[hawgustusgloop]

I remember this being discussed earlier on the thread. I hadn't thought about the car situation, none being spotted at the time the murder took place.
As for the Marva donations- rumor had it the prosecution went to Marva and retrieved a pair of shoes that were int he donated clothes form the Jones'. They were sent away to be tested for blood and returned positive- for animal blood-as they were a pair of Mr. Jones old hunting boots.
Another sign to me that investigating the murder became investigating Jones.
???
Wouldn't it be ridiculous for them NOT to investigate that? On the day of the murder, the boyfriend of the victim drops off some clothes to be donated, including a pair of boots that has what appears to be blood on them.

I don't get your point here.

[lorettalockhorn]

The vehicle Kevin was driving that day, laden with garbage and donations for Marva, was not seen at the apartment complex. Nor was any other vehicle spotted there during the time span of the murder. This tends to make me believe someone in walking distance committed the crime. Since the DNA was identified, I tend to believe it was from a database of criminals. Did an ex-con live in walking distance of Nona's apartment? Long ago, I checked the sex offenders' registry and found none of them in walking distance. However, if an ex-con lived nearby, what was he incarcerated for? This is pure conjecture on my part but it might be fun to discuss this:) Was the killer on foot? Was the killer an ex-con?

I drove a two different roundtrip routes between Nona's and the Jones home and parked nearby and walked to Nona's apartment to determine if Kevin had time to do just that. There are several places near to the apartment that anyone could park and walk or jog to her place. Not sure if a jogger would be out of place in her neighborhood.

When I learned that Nona was nude, I looked to see if there were any sexual offenders nearby and came up with nada (not that that truly means anything); there was some discussion of all that in this thread. Someone reported that there was a registered offender living with a girlfriend in Nona's complex and that would explain why his address in the registry didn't show up as being Inglewood or West 12th St. What I don't get is, if that is true, why didn't the defense simply name the guy to put further doubt into the minds of the jury, instead of twice naming Jeremy Martin, who obviously had a solid alibi.

[lorettalockhorn]

I remember this being discussed earlier on the thread. I hadn't thought about the car situation, none being spotted at the time the murder took place.
As for the Marva donations- rumor had it the prosecution went to Marva and retrieved a pair of shoes that were int he donated clothes form the Jones'. They were sent away to be tested for blood and returned positive- for animal blood-as they were a pair of Mr. Jones old hunting boots.
Another sign to me that investigating the murder became investigating Jones.

If true, that sounds to me like RPD was investigating blood. It is unfortunate that they didn't do forensics on his vehicle.

[christina]

Animal blood? Boots? Where did you get this stuff?

The fact that Marva's would be checked by the RPD is a sign that they were doing their job IMO. :patriot:

You have many inside sources, ask them to verify. My understanding is the RPD did not do it, the prosecution did.

[christina]

If true, that sounds to me like RPD was investigating blood. It is unfortunate that they didn't do forensics on his vehicle.

Couldn't agree more. But if they had not found any blood, either his or Nona's, in Jones car- would that have swayed you Lorretta?

[christina]

???
Wouldn't it be ridiculous for them NOT to investigate that? On the day of the murder, the boyfriend of the victim drops off some clothes to be donated, including a pair of boots that has what appears to be blood on them.

I don't get your point here.

Rumor is-this was done after the RPD handed the case over to the prosecution. My point being that the bulk of the investigation was on Jones, not the murder.
I see those as different.

[lorettalockhorn]

Couldn't agree more. But if they had not found any blood, either his or Nona's, in Jones car- would that have swayed you Lorretta?

Well, Chrristina, they didn't find blood in Nona's or Kevin's cars. So obviously not.

[lorettalockhorn]

Rumor is-this was done after the RPD handed the case over to the prosecution. My point being that the bulk of the investigation was on Jones, not the murder.
I see those as different.


hmmm Kevin had motive and opportunity, a shaky alibi, lied to investigators, and tainted the scene. Why wouldn't the investigation focus on him after other suspects were cleared?

[FDInLaw]

hmmm Kevin had motive and opportunity, a shaky alibi, lied to investigators, and tainted the scene. Why wouldn't the investigation focus on him after other suspects were cleared?Because Kevin is the true "victim." :rolleyes:

[christina]

Well, Chrristina, they didn't find blood in Nona's or Kevin's cars. So obviously not.

And that is a difference between us- it would have swayed me.

[CSOKC]

And that is a difference between us- it would have swayed me.
But you're already swayed...do you mean you would have thought he was guilty if they had found blood? That would have nearly been a slam dunk case in my opinion.

[lorettalockhorn]

And that is a difference between us- it would have swayed me.


All of the evidence there is against Kevin and it would have been blood in his car that would have swayed you? But not the bloody print on the bulb. You were convinced he was guilty before the trial, (but held out on the thought that you might be called as a juror), then because there was no evidence presented about Kevin's car, you changed your mind after that first day. Alrighty then.

I'm a little confused about why there would have been blood in Nona's car. Help a girl out.

[christina]

All of the evidence there is against Kevin and it would have been blood in his car that would have swayed you? But not the bloody print on the bulb. You were convinced he was guilty before the trial, (but held out on the thought that you might be called as a juror), then because there was no evidence presented about Kevin's car, you changed your mind after that first day. Alrighty then.

I'm a little confused about why there would have been blood in Nona's car. Help a girl out.

I thought the "bloody print at the scene" was definitely damning-until I saw the evidence-Jones print on a light bulb on a lamp a foot from the body-very different. (None of Jones' print anywhere else on the murder weapon )Seeing the crime scene photos showing the position of the body and lamp-showed clearly how easy it would have been to touch the bulb.
Since no obvious clean up (blood in drains, dirty towels)took place in the apartment by the murderer, blood in Jones car would have shown he got blood on him prior to discovery. Definitely damning.

[christina]

But you're already swayed...do you mean you would have thought he was guilty if they had found blood? That would have nearly been a slam dunk case in my opinion.

Yes, Nona's blood in Jones car would have been impossible to explain away. Would have given the jury a solid reason to convict him.
Many other pieces of evidence the prosecution presented were explained away for me.

[lorettalockhorn]

I was told, and am going to try to follow up in my "spare time" that one of the apartments in the complex was occupied by a sex offender.


Were you ever able to follow up on this?

[christina]

Because Kevin is the true "victim." :rolleyes:

I don't know anyone who feels that way nor expressed it here. Nona is dead, brutally murdered. She is the only victim of this crime.
If the condom wrapper dna owner turns out to be the murderer, then Jones and his family will be proven to have suffered at the hands of the legal system. Does that make them vicitms? The system also worked on their behalf and found him not guilty.
I don't want to sound harsh here, but the mantra of "Jones being the victim" is old. It is also ascribing motives/beliefs that again-I have not seen anyone here profer.

[christina]

Were you ever able to follow up on this?

It appears sololobo and I looked in the same place- the online sex offenders registery. I found none registered in the complex.

[lorettalockhorn]

It appears sololobo and I looked in the same place- the online sex offenders registery. I found none registered in the complex.


You searched the registry on or around 7/14/07? Oh, okay. I searched it on or around 12/16/05 and found none. Surely, he would have moved in the year and a half between the murder and when you were doing your follow-up.

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't know anyone who feels that way nor expressed it here. Nona is dead, brutally murdered. She is the only victim of this crime.
If the condom wrapper dna owner turns out to be the murderer, then Jones and his family will be proven to have suffered at the hands of the legal system. Does that make them vicitms? The system also worked on their behalf and found him not guilty.
I don't want to sound harsh here, but the mantra of "Jones being the victim" is old. It is also ascribing motives/beliefs that again-I have not seen anyone here profer.

If KJ hasn't been portrayed as a victim, then what is the Justice For Kevin movement all about?

Nona is not the only victim; you have to include her family and friends, and those who would have benefitted from her life of contributions, and the community who lives with a murderer at large.

[optimumprimal78]

If KJ hasn't been portrayed as a victim, then what is the Justice For Kevin movement all about?

Nona is not the only victim; you have to include her family and friends, and those who would have benefitted from her life of contributions, and the community who lives with a murderer at large.

Yeah I disagree whole heartedly with the whole sentiment that Kevin was the victim as a lot of people were trying to make him out to be. The only people that were truly victims were Nona and her family. After some of the things I have heard and seen I don't know if I would even categorize Nona's friends as victims. I am sure that most of them are hurt by the loss but we have all seen how many of the people who claimed to have been her friends or who claimed to know her casually backed Kevin because they were his friend "first" or they just happened to know him better after all. I remember when they announced the decision and the news had someone from Dover on there saying that they "just knew that he wouldn't do something like that". It is people like that that I would love to ask why they believe that. Is it that you just like the POTENTIAL murderer so much that you can't believe it or is it that you just don't care to understand about the ACTUAL victim?

[FDInLaw]

I don't know anyone who feels that way nor expressed it here. Nona is dead, brutally murdered. She is the only victim of this crime.
If the condom wrapper dna owner turns out to be the murderer, then Jones and his family will be proven to have suffered at the hands of the legal system. Does that make them vicitms? The system also worked on their behalf and found him not guilty.
I don't want to sound harsh here, but the mantra of "Jones being the victim" is old. It is also ascribing motives/beliefs that again-I have not seen anyone here profer.I don't even have a response for this. . . you know darn well what I am talking about.

You're the one that has asked if the Jones have grounds to sue, are you not?

[lorettalockhorn]

Yeah I disagree whole heartedly with the whole sentiment that Kevin was the victim as a lot of people were trying to make him out to be. The only people that were truly victims were Nona and her family. After some of the things I have heard and seen I don't know if I would even categorize Nona's friends as victims. I am sure that most of them are hurt by the loss but we have all seen how many of the people who claimed to have been her friends or who claimed to know her casually backed Kevin because they were his friend "first" or they just happened to know him better after all. I remember when they announced the decision and the news had someone from Dover on there saying that they "just knew that he wouldn't do something like that". It is people like that that I would love to ask why they believe that. Is it that you just like the POTENTIAL murderer so much that you can't believe it or is it that you just don't care to understand about the ACTUAL victim?

Good point about her friends. To tell you the truth, I was mainly thinking about the Little that she had befriended.

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't even have a response for this. . . you know darn well what I am talking about.

You're the one that has asked if the Jones have grounds to sue, are you not?

Word up

[FDInLaw]

If it turns out that the owner of the condom wrapper dna is also the owner of the prints on the real murder weapon(not an unbroken lightbulb), and is convicted of(or confesses to) Nona's death.... will Jones have a solid suit against the RPD, the prosecutor, the "state"? BUMP.

[LurkerNoMore]

Yeah I disagree whole heartedly with the whole sentiment that Kevin was the victim as a lot of people were trying to make him out to be. The only people that were truly victims were Nona and her family. After some of the things I have heard and seen I don't know if I would even categorize Nona's friends as victims. I am sure that most of them are hurt by the loss but we have all seen how many of the people who claimed to have been her friends or who claimed to know her casually backed Kevin because they were his friend "first" or they just happened to know him better after all. I remember when they announced the decision and the news had someone from Dover on there saying that they "just knew that he wouldn't do something like that". It is people like that that I would love to ask why they believe that. Is it that you just like the POTENTIAL murderer so much that you can't believe it or is it that you just don't care to understand about the ACTUAL victim?


IF another individual is convicted of murdering Nona - and hear me clearly here - if it is proven that another individual murdered Nona - then, I'll say it, yes - Kevin was a victim in this situation. Not in the same way Nona was - but, if that turns out to be the case, Kevin was a victim.

[hawgustusgloop]

Rumor is-this was done after the RPD handed the case over to the prosecution. My point being that the bulk of the investigation was on Jones, not the murder.
I see those as different.

??????????????????????????????????
What? I really just don't get it, I guess. If the police investigation revealed that Kevin was the most likely suspect, why wouldn't the prosecutor investigate anything about him more thoroughly? Assuming this whole thing isn't some total lie or rumor, which is hard to do IMO, considering the source.

[lorettalockhorn]

IF another individual is convicted of murdering Nona - and hear me clearly here - if it is proven that another individual murdered Nona - then, I'll say it, yes - Kevin was a victim in this situation. Not in the same way Nona was - but, if that turns out to be the case, Kevin was a victim.

If anything, Kevin may is a victim of his own stupidity and narcissism and defense team. He has acted in such a way after the murder and after the trial that some people have to go out of their way(s) to consider anyone else as a viable suspect. Maybe if he hadn't lied to investigators and Schlesinger, maybe if he hadn't tainted the crime scene, maybe if his attorney hadn't made a press release, maybe then people could block him out of their minds as the murderer.

I think straws should be placed on the Endangered Species List.

[optimumprimal78]

IF another individual is convicted of murdering Nona - and hear me clearly here - if it is proven that another individual murdered Nona - then, I'll say it, yes - Kevin was a victim in this situation. Not in the same way Nona was - but, if that turns out to be the case, Kevin was a victim.

I disagree. How can a suspect for murder be a victim? If he was harassed by the public (which he definitely was NOT)? If the police did their job by going after who they thought AT THE TIME was the person responsible? None of what happened would indicate that Kevin was a victim (of circumstance or otherwise). Sadly people choose to make an excuse for him (he was in love, he was "outside himself", etc.) or they want to back him and try to forget about Nona but that does not mean that he is this so called victim. He might not be guilty of murder (according to the jury) but he certainly is no victim. If the situation arises that someone else is convicted and proven to have murdered her then it will make him innocent of that crime. It will not prove, however, that he was wronged or done an unjustice to by the police. If he were to sue the RPD what would it be for? For them doing their jobs? Making him look like a suspect? Well I would figure he would lose that case because if you watched the 48 hour show it sure did look like he wasn't helping his case.

Sorry for the rambling but I am tired and I have had a long week. :seeya:

[JustCallMeNora]

And that is a difference between us- it would have swayed me.

Haven't you realized yet this is a hopeless cause here? Why are you wasting your time?

[CSOKC]

Haven't you realized yet this is a hopeless cause here? Why are you wasting your time?
It isn't hopeless at all. Not even a little, and we have all stated that if something comes up that proves someone else committed this crime we would be happy.

[jonikay]

I remember this being discussed earlier on the thread. I hadn't thought about the car situation, none being spotted at the time the murder took place.
As for the Marva donations- rumor had it the prosecution went to Marva and retrieved a pair of shoes that were int he donated clothes form the Jones'. They were sent away to be tested for blood and returned positive- for animal blood-as they were a pair of Mr. Jones old hunting boots.
Another sign to me that investigating the murder became investigating Jones.
This investigation into the clothes dropped off at marva really did occur. During opening statements, the defense explained during their "tunnel vision" platform that the prosecution had 40someodd pages on the investigation into the boots only to find that there was animal blood on them. Whether or not it was RPD or the prosecution investigating this, who knows, as the reports would all end up in the same place. That point, IMO, doesn't matter. Christina is on point with the boots info. Her views on this particular matter echo the defense's explanation of the botched (or lackluster) investigation

[CSOKC]

Haven't you realized yet this is a hopeless cause here? Why are you wasting your time?
Also, if you think it is hopeless then why are you wasting your time?

[JustCallMeNora]

It isn't hopeless at all. Not even a little, and we have all stated that if something comes up that proves someone else committed this crime we would be happy.

I meant to defend Jones, not Nona's cause.

[hawgustusgloop]

Haven't you realized yet this is a hopeless cause here? Why are you wasting your time?

I wish you would waste a little time and post those audio links. TIA.

[lorettalockhorn]

This investigation into the clothes dropped off at marva really did occur. During opening statements, the defense explained during their "tunnel vision" platform that the prosecution had 40someodd pages on the investigation into the boots only to find that there was animal blood on them. Whether or not it was RPD or the prosecution investigating this, who knows, as the reports would all end up in the same place. That point, IMO, doesn't matter. Christina is on point with the boots info. Her views on this particular matter echo the defense's explanation of the botched (or lackluster) investigation


The defense explains that the investigation was botched, yet the straw graspers complain that RPD investigated bloodstains. Surely everyone, especially RPD wishes the investigation had been more thorough, but how is checking out blood on the boots out of line? If it had been Nona's blood and there had been a conviction, many people wouldn't give the bloodstain on the lightswitch, or any of the other items neglected a second thought.

[FDInLaw]

I meant to defend Jones, not Nona's cause.These are one in the same IF Kevin is innocent. Christina endeavors to give an intelligent and compassionate account of what she believes to be true. This is far better than the ghouls that are running around slamming Nona and her Mother. I certainly appreciate the effort she has put forth to be apart of this community. Kevin needs supporters that can behave themselves, is that a lost cause?

[lorettalockhorn]

I wish you would waste a little time and post those audio links. TIA.

Ditto

[JustCallMeNora]

I wish you would waste a little time and post those audio links. TIA.

Find them yourself, like I did.

[FDInLaw]

I wish you would waste a little time and post those audio links. TIA.
You won't let this go will you? :D

[JustCallMeNora]

Ditto

Ditto my response to hawg

[hawgustusgloop]

You won't let this go will you? :D
Sadly, probably not. What is really sad is that she is either A) choosing not to post them to bolster whatever point she was trying to make or B) continuing to lie about finding them in the first place.

I, for one, would LOVE to hear it to see if that supposed confession is truly audible or not, and if so, what the exact words are. If you just can't hear what is being said, or if it somehow made Kevin look less guilty, you would think JustCallMeNora would be eager to post the links.

[FDInLaw]

Find them yourself, like I did.
Not very generous of you! Maybe the next time you need a nic you could use "grinch." :D

(Sorry . . . :punch: bad FD!)

Really, I suggest you post it. . . or the whole "I'm an out of state newbie" is suspect. In other words, your integrity is in question.

Not sure how else to put it. :seeya:

[FDInLaw]

Sadly, probably not. What is really sad is that she is either A) choosing not to post them to bolster whatever point she was trying to make or B) continuing to lie about finding them in the first place.

I, for one, would LOVE to hear it to see if that supposed confession is truly audible or not, and if so, what the exact words are. If you just can't hear what is being said, or if it somehow made Kevin look less guilty, you would think JustCallMeNora would be eager to post the links.I really want to hear it for myself too! It bothers me that a person from out of state found it on the Internet but I can't seem to. :rolleyes:

[lorettalockhorn]

Ditto my response to hawg

Rough day? Cookie? http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j317/mccloud24/CHOCOLATE_CHIP_COOKIE.jpg

Don't mean to make things worse, we're just used to seeing links used to back up claims of fact. :seeya:

[JustCallMeNora]

Not very generous of you! Maybe the next time you need a nic you could use "grinch." :D

(Sorry . . . :punch: bad FD!)

Really, I suggest you post it. . . or the whole "I'm an out of state newbie" is suspect. In other words, your integrity is in question.

Not sure how else to put it. :seeya:

My integrity was suspect prior to that, as all newbies are. By not posting the links, all it really says is that I really don't care how you see me.

[lorettalockhorn]

I really want to hear it for myself too! It bothers me that a person from out of state found it on the Internet but I can't seem to. :rolleyes:


I guess we better get it in gear and quit searching the State Wide Web and try the World Wide Web.

[FDInLaw]

My integrity was suspect prior to that, as all newbies are. By not posting the links, all it really says is that I really don't care how you see me.Very true. Respect is earned here, it's not a free gift. If you make a habit of lying you will be considered a liar. You're really happy with that? Have some self-respect! :(

[FDInLaw]

Where did she go?

It sure is quiet. :shrug:

[guppie]

There has been and still are rumors about Bubba's involvement circulating in this community. These are just rumors, no basis in reported facts. You will not read them in the paper or see them reported on TV. They are discussed at the office, on the street corner, at the coffee shop, etc.

Here are some of the rumors I've heard:

RPD did not like the mayor. Bacon was appointed by the mayor. When Bubba's name was first brought up, the mayor said lets not even go there. RPD did not go there. Bacon resigns and the Mayor did not run for re-election. Was a deal struck?

I don't think so. It sounds a little far-fetched to me:) But these divisive rumors should be addressed and proven wrong for the sake of our community. The information concerning his where-abouts can be made public and these rumors concerning Bubba will dissappear immediately. I believe that's all LouLou wants.


thanks for that info. it helps to be aware the rumors even if i don't give them a lot of weight. i do agree to a point with what you said. however, i think it goes back to Shakespeare's "(he who) doth protest too much." it would be nice for your community to hear from bubba in order to quash the rumor, but i see why he would not address it, considering sometimes it's worse if you speak out against rumor. i would imagine, as the mayor's son, he would know friends of the family that are lawyers, and they probably told him to just let it go and advised him not to speak out. i mean, there are no guarantees things would be better as far as the rumor mill if he did choose to speak out about it. all JMO

[christina]

I don't even have a response for this. . . you know darn well what I am talking about.

You're the one that has asked if the Jones have grounds to sue, are you not?


Asking about having grounds to sue was for discussion purposes and is totally unrelated to your statement "because Kevin is the real victim". That is what I was responding to.

[guppie]

The vehicle Kevin was driving that day, laden with garbage and donations for Marva, was not seen at the apartment complex. Nor was any other vehicle spotted there during the time span of the murder. This tends to make me believe someone in walking distance committed the crime. Since the DNA was identified, I tend to believe it was from a database of criminals. Did an ex-con live in walking distance of Nona's apartment? Long ago, I checked the sex offenders' registry and found none of them in walking distance. However, if an ex-con lived nearby, what was he incarcerated for? This is pure conjecture on my part but it might be fun to discuss this:) Was the killer on foot? Was the killer an ex-con?

BINGO...i think kevin parked in a nearby location and walked there. seems that if this was a random act that the killer would have raped Nona, JMO. i know there are obviously cases where there is a murder without rape, but how often are those in the privacy of an apartment with a beautiful Miss AR contestant? just doesn't fit to me.

[guppie]

I remember this being discussed earlier on the thread. I hadn't thought about the car situation, none being spotted at the time the murder took place.
As for the Marva donations- rumor had it the prosecution went to Marva and retrieved a pair of shoes that were int he donated clothes form the Jones'. They were sent away to be tested for blood and returned positive- for animal blood-as they were a pair of Mr. Jones old hunting boots.
Another sign to me that investigating the murder became investigating Jones.


we have no clue how much investigating of others the RPD did. how do you know who and what all they looked into? they could have been looking at other people's clothing as well. that seems a big jump to assert that they only investigated Jones.

[christina]

??????????????????????????????????
What? I really just don't get it, I guess. If the police investigation revealed that Kevin was the most likely suspect, why wouldn't the prosecutor investigate anything about him more thoroughly? Assuming this whole thing isn't some total lie or rumor, which is hard to do IMO, considering the source.

You know Hawg, I have done my mea culpas for that one infraction of making my relationship with the family different than it really was. It was stupid, I am sorry.
But for goodness sake- I have hung on here through all kinds of crap-why? Because I am as interested in justice for Nona as you are. We may believe differently but our goal is the same. This is my town, my kid's town, it concerns me to have a murderer free.
I have given what information I have/get freely and I believe all other things I have shared have been accurate.
So please-lay off this "consider the source" crap!
Sorry to be so testy. Its been a bad several days for me, I need a hot bath, glass of wine and someone to answer the phone for me.

[guppie]

You have many inside sources, ask them to verify. My understanding is the RPD did not do it, the prosecution did.

correct me if i'm wrong, but wouldn't that mean that kevin either was about to be indicted or had been indicted? so, at that point, why would anyone who was investigating a murder overlook clothing that had been dropped the day of the murder or anytime around that date? are you saying you think it was overzealous of the prosecutor to thoroughly investigate dropped off clothing?

[guppie]

I don't know anyone who feels that way nor expressed it here. Nona is dead, brutally murdered. She is the only victim of this crime.
If the condom wrapper dna owner turns out to be the murderer, then Jones and his family will be proven to have suffered at the hands of the legal system. Does that make them vicitms? The system also worked on their behalf and found him not guilty.
I don't want to sound harsh here, but the mantra of "Jones being the victim" is old. It is also ascribing motives/beliefs that again-I have not seen anyone here profer.


how is it old when we just saw it on 48 hrs in February 2008?

that interview KJ did was so self-centered, and then his mom rang in and made it even more about him. they didn't seem so much concerned about Nona (the victim) or her family (the victims) to me. i completely felt it was all about KJ...oh Kevin Jones the victim.
why the heck didn't 48 hrs just call it "All About Poor Kevin Jones the Victim" instead of "Who Killed the Beauty Queen?" like i said, this guy completely incriminates himself with the help of his mommy who is hanging on him like a wart. i don't think he could have done much more to convince me of his guilt other than actually confess. i cannot get his own words and attitude out of my head.

[guppie]

Yeah I disagree whole heartedly with the whole sentiment that Kevin was the victim as a lot of people were trying to make him out to be. The only people that were truly victims were Nona and her family. After some of the things I have heard and seen I don't know if I would even categorize Nona's friends as victims. I am sure that most of them are hurt by the loss but we have all seen how many of the people who claimed to have been her friends or who claimed to know her casually backed Kevin because they were his friend "first" or they just happened to know him better after all. I remember when they announced the decision and the news had someone from Dover on there saying that they "just knew that he wouldn't do something like that". It is people like that that I would love to ask why they believe that. Is it that you just like the POTENTIAL murderer so much that you can't believe it or is it that you just don't care to understand about the ACTUAL victim?


it's interesting how, if you research it, the main thing people tend to say after a bf/gf or spousal homicide is, "I could never imagine that he would do that!"

[guppie]

Good point about her friends. To tell you the truth, I was mainly thinking about the Little that she had befriended.

it's interesting that the "friend" of Nona's that 48 hrs interviewed was her "friend" through pageants. do people really make good friends in the very competitive pageant system? i think of that incident a while back (Miss Universe maybe?) where either someone put a toxic chemical on the girl's pageant dress or either she may have done it herself to get the sympathy vote. eek! anyway, i just did not get the impression that girl Adrielle was a true friend to Nona...once again, JMO.
someone who knew Nona would be able to inform as to how good of friends they were. i don't know how many times Adrielle had even met or been around KJ and Nona. bf's and husbands can sometimes be very different in public than they are behind closed doors. anyway, Adrielle seemed oblivious and immature to me.

[Amy]

I disagree. How can a suspect for murder be a victim? If he was harassed by the public (which he definitely was NOT)? If the police did their job by going after who they thought AT THE TIME was the person responsible? None of what happened would indicate that Kevin was a victim (of circumstance or otherwise). Sadly people choose to make an excuse for him (he was in love, he was "outside himself", etc.) or they want to back him and try to forget about Nona but that does not mean that he is this so called victim. He might not be guilty of murder (according to the jury) but he certainly is no victim. If the situation arises that someone else is convicted and proven to have murdered her then it will make him innocent of that crime. It will not prove, however, that he was wronged or done an unjustice to by the police. If he were to sue the RPD what would it be for? For them doing their jobs? Making him look like a suspect? Well I would figure he would lose that case because if you watched the 48 hour show it sure did look like he wasn't helping his case.

Sorry for the rambling but I am tired and I have had a long week. :seeya:


It seems RPD and the DA went where the evidence led them. And, there was enough evidence for the DA to think it was probable that KJ was the murderer. In fact, the DA set on the information from RPD for how long (and evidently insisted on more evidence than the origionally provided to him) before indicting KJ.

If NONE of the evidence presented indicated KJ could have done this murder, then, he might have a case. But, as Christina pointed out--"the system" also worked for KJ as he was found not guilty (which, of course, does not necissarily mean innocent) so, he has no case.

Besides, I remember at the beginning, there WERE other people investigated, NOT just KJ. He was NOT the only person ever looked at as the perpetrator of this murder. He just wasn't. It's just that, with the investigation, the evidence pointed towards him, and not to the others that WERE also investigated. IMO

No, KJ is not a victim of Nona's murder, IMO.

[guppie]

If anything, Kevin may is a victim of his own stupidity and narcissism and defense team. He has acted in such a way after the murder and after the trial that some people have to go out of their way(s) to consider anyone else as a viable suspect. Maybe if he hadn't lied to investigators and Schlesinger, maybe if he hadn't tainted the crime scene, maybe if his attorney hadn't made a press release, maybe then people could block him out of their minds as the murderer.

I think straws should be placed on the Endangered Species List.

and people wonder why Bubba doesn't speak out. maybe he is not a self-centered narcissist? i mean, could bubba even get a word in with all KJ's press? maybe KJ and his attorneys should try practicing silence instead of making more of the focus on him. oh, but narcissists love that publicity!

[jonikay]

it's interesting that the "friend" of Nona's that 48 hrs interviewed was her "friend" through pageants. do people really make good friends in the very competitive pageant system? i think of that incident a while back (Miss Universe maybe?) where either someone put a toxic chemical on the girl's pageant dress or either she may have done it herself to get the sympathy vote. eek! anyway, i just did not get the impression that girl Adrielle was a true friend to Nona...once again, JMO.
someone who knew Nona would be able to inform as to how good of friends they were. i don't know how many times Adrielle had even met or been around KJ and Nona. bf's and husbands can sometimes be very different in public than they are behind closed doors. anyway, Adrielle seemed oblivious and immature to me.
Adrielle is a native of Dover and went to school with KJ and Nona. Her ties are very close to the both of them. Also, Adrielle was on a different level in the pageant system. She was part of it for much longer and was competitions above Nona. Had Nona lived, they would have been competitors, but at that point, they weren't. I believe that Adrielle's intentions are good. I really do. And for what it's worth, Adrielle's thoughts as depicted in 48 hours seemed highly edited, just with the phrases and wording and all, it seemed like they cut her thoughts mid-sentence.

[guppie]

Haven't you realized yet this is a hopeless cause here? Why are you wasting your time?


christina provides the alternative viewpoint. most if us like to see both sides and appreciate her involvement. not sure why you would call anything hopeless? i don't usually quote scripture, but i love this one, and you might find it helpful in coming out of that hopeless feeling.
Romans 5:3-4 "Rejoice in our suffering, suffering produces perseverance, persevance-character, and character HOPE."

[guppie]

I meant to defend Jones, not Nona's cause.


HUH??? please tell me that was worded wrong and i just need to read on to see the retraction! i will read on.

[guppie]

Find them yourself, like I did.

HAHAHAHA. wow, i see the average maturity level on here drastically declined while i was away.

[guppie]

Not very generous of you! Maybe the next time you need a nic you could use "grinch." :D

(Sorry . . . :punch: bad FD!)

Really, I suggest you post it. . . or the whole "I'm an out of state newbie" is suspect. In other words, your integrity is in question.

Not sure how else to put it. :seeya:

hey, hey, no knocking "out of state newbies!" :D

[guppie]

My integrity was suspect prior to that, as all newbies are. By not posting the links, all it really says is that I really don't care how you see me.

um, no, actually it says you have no link to back up your statements.

btw, my integrity was suspect at first too, but i provided intelligent conversation and links to back up my statements if needed. why so defensive?

[guppie]

Adrielle is a native of Dover and went to school with KJ and Nona. Her ties are very close to the both of them. Also, Adrielle was on a different level in the pageant system. She was part of it for much longer and was competitions above Nona. Had Nona lived, they would have been competitors, but at that point, they weren't. I believe that Adrielle's intentions are good. I really do. And for what it's worth, Adrielle's thoughts as depicted in 48 hours seemed highly edited, just with the phrases and wording and all, it seemed like they cut her thoughts mid-sentence.

thanks for that insight. i just felt Adrielle seemed naive and immature...could be partially due to editing though. how are her "ties close to both of them?" what some people consider close, others do not, so i am trying to form my own opinion.

[jonikay]

Close friends with Nona. Friendship strengthened through pageant circuit. Friends with KJ through school. They were all three friends at school. IMO, they were all three buds. I believe this wholeheartedly.

[guppie]

i am catching up from today and writing to myself apparently...how depressing. :(

[guppie]

Close friends with Nona. Friendship strengthened through pageant circuit. Friends with KJ through school. They were all three friends at school. IMO, they were all three buds. I believe this wholeheartedly.

oh good, someone's home!
ok, did the 3 of them spend many days a week together outside school? i mean, my best friends and i were inseparable after school was over.

[jonikay]

Don't know about that. I'd say no because Nona was at Tech and if I'm not mistaken Adrielle and KJ were at UA. After school was over meaning college? They remained friends after high school.

[guppie]

Don't know about that. I'd say no because Nona was at Tech and if I'm not mistaken Adrielle and KJ were at UA. After school was over meaning college? They remained friends after high school.

i meant "over" as in the school day...after school, weekends, summer.
was Adrielle with Nona a lot outside school? you only mentioned at school. i had a lot of friends at school that i did not consider really good friends or that i would spend much time with outside school. my best friend and i were inseparable in high school. then we went to the same college, yet we did not see each other often in college. we had no falling out, just different sororities, friends, etc.
point is: just because they ran around together in high school or did pageants together does not convince me that she knew Nona's life really well, especially 2 yrs out of high school.

IMO an abusive bf is not as likely to show his true self when the gf is submissive and can easily be controlled. my thought is that KJ became jealous, controlling, and outwardly abusive (starting verbally) as time went on and Nona came out of her shell. if KJ is controlling and abusive, IMO it was already in him to be abusive but may not have "presented" itself until later in their relationship. IMO while Nona was weak and damaged from her early childhood experience, it would not be as likely that an abusive side of her bf would show. he would have been more like her caretaker, so to speak (which, btw, his own mother asserts in her 48 hrs debut).
abusive bf behavior tends to surface when the female gets stronger and starts to assert herself. remember i am only speculating.

[jonikay]

Sheesh, guppie. I don't have a timeline of events depicting the three's friendship and the amount of time they spent together. Friends. They. were. friends. Nona was competing in pageants and Adrielle was her mentor in that area. The pageants took place during Nona's college career.
I do agree, as does the prosecution, that Nona was blossoming and KJ was not, which led to a HUGE falling out, to say the least.

[ifIwereU]

It appears sololobo and I looked in the same place- the online sex offenders registery. I found none registered in the complex.

did you check for Dec 2005? or just current offenders?

[guppie]

Sheesh, guppie. I don't have a timeline of events depicting the three's friendship and the amount of time they spent together. Friends. They. were. friends. Nona was competing in pageants and Adrielle was her mentor in that area. The pageants took place during Nona's college career.
I do agree, as does the prosecution, that Nona was blossoming and KJ was not, which led to a HUGE falling out, to say the least.

so sorry for the tangent, jonikay! :punch: well said on the "blossoming."

re: beauty pageant contestant Adrielle/friend of Nona- 48 hrs interview
i was just trying to get a feel for how well she knew Nona and KJ's relationship in the last year of it. if she is gonna be the friend 48 hrs chose to interview for national tv, i would like to think she was a valid source...just dunno. to me, she came across as that big campus sorority girl who only kept in touch with small town friends when back home. i could be so wrong about her (forgive me if i am!). that is only my impression. i just didn't find what she had to say at all compelling. i wish they had interviewed someone like Sara who actually had a recent conversation with Nona...or really anyone who went to Tech with Nona and saw her often.

i REALLY wish that the KJ supporters who post would tell us more about what in KJ's everyday life is compelling them to think he is innocent. maybe i need to go back and read more. i just can't seem to find anyone giving PERSONALITY/BEHAVIORAL REASONS why they think he didn't kill Nona. they only say he didn't do it, go back to rumors about others, or get defensive and lash out.

[guppie]

did you check for Dec 2005? or just current offenders?


confused...ya'll are talking about "sex" offenders, right? but Nona wasn't raped, and there was no sign of an attemped sexual assault on her person. ???

[ifIwereU]

I thought the "bloody print at the scene" was definitely damning-until I saw the evidence-Jones print on a light bulb on a lamp a foot from the body-very different. (None of Jones' print anywhere else on the murder weapon )Seeing the crime scene photos showing the position of the body and lamp-showed clearly how easy it would have been to touch the bulb.
Since no obvious clean up (blood in drains, dirty towels)took place in the apartment by the murderer, blood in Jones car would have shown he got blood on him prior to discovery. Definitely damning.


I disagree....I saw the crime scene photos and also the photos of the bulb....I agree with Bacon ( at least on this point anyway, not "tacky") the position of the print on the bulb would have caused kevin to turn his arm or hand in such a way that would have probably stuck in his mind because the print was actually faced down on the carpet....meaning his palm would have had to be pointed upward.......I don't buy what you trying to sell here.....

[ifIwereU]

confused...ya'll are talking about "sex" offenders, right? but Nona wasn't raped, and there was no sign of an attemped sexual assault on her person. ???

there are documented cases of "sexual/lust" type murders with no sexual contact between the victim and the offender...my reference is "Dark Dreams" by Roy Hazelwood....a former FBI profiler....
to explain would take me to long to type.....but it does happen

[lorettalockhorn]

did you check for Dec 2005? or just current offenders?

U, I checked for offenders in December 2005. I believe that Chrristina didn't check until July 2007. Don't believe she ever actually told us when she was told the information that a sex offender was living in Nona's apartment complex. But I'm relatively certain that no offenders lived there during the time of the murder. Or, I suppose he could have been lying about his address to his probation/parole officer or whoever it is at RPD who tracks these cretins.

But surely whoever told Chrristina about this guy also told LE.

[guppie]

there are documented cases of "sexual/lust" type murders with no sexual contact between the victim and the offender...my reference is "Dark Dreams" by Roy Hazelwood....a former FBI profiler....
to explain would take me to long to type.....but it does happen


thanks for the source. me likey those posts with sources! ha
anyway, i guess the better question is how often does that type of case (like what you describe above) occur? if you can recall.

[ifIwereU]

U, I checked for offenders in December 2005. I believe that Chrristina didn't check until July 2007. Don't believe she ever actually told us when she was told the information that a sex offender was living in Nona's apartment complex. But I'm relatively certain that no offenders lived there during the time of the murder. Or, I suppose he could have been lying about his address to his probation/parole officer or whoever it is at RPD who tracks these cretins.

But surely whoever told Chrristina about this guy also told LE.

i'm sure they did

thanks for the info

[guppie]

U, I checked for offenders in December 2005. I believe that Chrristina didn't check until July 2007. Don't believe she ever actually told us when she was told the information that a sex offender was living in Nona's apartment complex. But I'm relatively certain that no offenders lived there during the time of the murder. Or, I suppose he could have been lying about his address to his probation/parole officer or whoever it is at RPD who tracks these cretins.

But surely whoever told Chrristina about this guy also told LE.

i'm trying. i'm really trying, but i just can't wrap my mind around the idea that Nona would let a sex offender into her apt (she kept it locked, right?) and IF she did, that he didn't even attempt to rape her. this is a SEX offender we are contemplating? that whole scenario is a real stretch to me. i am sure, as IfIWereU stated, that this occasionally happens, but seems rare. i will look it up before i comment anymore on that.

[ifIwereU]

thanks for the source. me likey those posts with sources! ha
anyway, i guess the better question is how often does that type of case (like what you describe above) occur? if you can recall.

the long and hort of it:

more often than you would think...but most of your lust and sexual murders have some type of contact....even if not with a penial penetration, they often can't function and use objects to insert into the body in sexual degrading fashion

...these types of offenses often begin as simple B&E or voyuerisim where someones undies are taken (these are very low functioning offenders) if they are not caught doing the little stuff they gradually move up to attempted rape....most of the time they can't perform and will leave but there are cases where they kill typically out of sexual frustration or at some unknown deep seeded anger at women. sometimes the sexual aspect of the killer is only known to the offender....

but most sexual homicides occur with some type of overt sexual contact

[lorettalockhorn]

i'm trying. i'm really trying, but i just can't wrap my mind around the idea that Nona would let a sex offender into her apt (she kept it locked, right?) and IF she did, that he didn't even attempt to rape her. this is a SEX offender we are contemplating? that whole scenario is a real stretch to me. i am sure, as IfIWereU stated, that this occasionally happens, but seems rare. i will look it up before i comment anymore on that.

I don't think she let anyone in that she didn't know, and I don't think she knew any registered offenders, else KJ would know about that since they were so close, right? My interest is merely in the fact that the defense claims that the condom wrapper DNA has been identified and points to a viable suspect. That tells me that the DNA is in the registry.

I'm getting a big disconnect.

Or my powers of logic are weak.

[upallnight]

Haven't you realized yet this is a hopeless cause here? Why are you wasting your time?
Why are you wasting yours?????????

[guppie]

I don't think she let anyone in that she didn't know, and I don't think she knew any registered offenders, else KJ would know about that since they were so close, right? My interest is merely in the fact that the defense claims that the condom wrapper DNA has been identified and points to a viable suspect. That tells me that the DNA is in the registry.

I'm getting a big disconnect.

Or my powers of logic are weak.

yeah, i watched a case on tv where the husband planted evidence at the scene of the murder of his wife and kids to try to have someone else blamed and convicted. actually, they both ended up convicted because the "scapegoat" sold the husband an untraceable gun the night of the crime-amounted to conspiracy. it reminded of this case in that the prosecution made a few errors, but yet the husband was convicted.
jurors looking for an error-free investigation will never convict a person of crimes they commit. humans make errors.


re: DNA i am now thinking it must be in the registry but still nothing to convince me the wrapper wasn't planted. hasn't it been 3 weeks since the spec prosec was assigned?

[upallnight]

I meant to defend Jones, not Nona's cause.

Did you provide Jones an alibi for around um, say 11:30am Dec. 15th 2005...........?

[guppie]

can anyone give me a "key word" where i can look up posts in which KJ supporters tell of his personality or behavior on a daily basis? appreciate it!

[upallnight]

Find them yourself, like I did.
You have not provided proof you did find them, ummmm........??????????? Good try though!

[reesesandacoke]

Hello all,
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Please note this is a work in progress lens! I add to this lens daily. So check back for new content.

[guppie]

Originally Posted by loulou58
I have not necessarily CHanged my mind, I was not pleased with the verdict at the time. I was just curious if Bubba was actually checked out, I mean IF it were rumored that some sex offender down the road was involved, don't you think that the investigators would have been there knocking on his door. Of course they would even if they heard or he told them he was outta town at the time. Investigators would not just assume he ( a sex offender) was telling the truth.They would want a alibi. They would check into it even if it was only a rumor, at least I would hope they would. I dont have any evidence against Bubba, I am just curious if it was actually looked into? I do know the boy has been in trouble with the law in the past, at least thats what the courthouse news in the courier said a while back. ( before the murder)

Originally Posted by loulou58 I was convinced it was KJ

Originally Posted by loulou58
1. I dont know they didn't, thats why I am here asking you guys.
2. I never said that.
3. I have been curious anout Duane as well earlier in the inverstigation, but never could determine what his motive would be, i will say that his interview seeed a bit strange on 48 hours tho.
4. I have know beliefs about bubba, just curious..does that make sense?
5. Drugs I believe..I do not know his real first name so I can not search the link.
I was just curious about Bubba thats all. Until I see more , I will most likely remain thinking KJ is guilty even though the verdict says otherwise.
your answers: "don't know? never said that?"
come on Lou, you can do better. you came out swinging, and then you holed up. whatcha got? if you have opinions just tell us how you arrived at them and what your position is now and why. would love to hear! been looking for a KJ supporter who sees him daily and can tell about his personailty/ behavior/ character (or lack of). know any?

[Amy]

I don't think she let anyone in that she didn't know, and I don't think she knew any registered offenders, else KJ would know about that since they were so close, right? My interest is merely in the fact that the defense claims that the condom wrapper DNA has been identified and points to a viable suspect. That tells me that the DNA is in the registry.

I'm getting a big disconnect.

Or my powers of logic are weak.

I don't think one would have to be in the sex offender registry to have DNA on file. DNA has been left at the scene of other crimes.

[sololobo]

I don't think one would have to be in the sex offender registry to have DNA on file. DNA has been left at the scene of other crimes.

I believe anyone who has been convicted of a felony can be required to give a DNA sample. I'm not sure of this but I am sure a DNA sample is required from anyone who serves time in our state prison system.

Our DNA "suspect" is, more than likely, an ex-con and probably was not convicted of a sex crime. Perhaps his crime was residential burglary, domestic violence, assault, etc. I tend to assume it would have something to with violence if he is a viable suspect.

[sololobo]

The shortest distance to walk would involve someone who lived in the apartment complex, on the same side, near Nona's. He could exit through the rear sliding door and enter his apartment through his sliding door...little chance of detection. This could explain the missing stick and the blood smear in the sliding door blinds. He pulled them back to see if the coast was clear. How could he have gained entrance, though?

[Amy]

The shortest distance to walk would involve someone who lived in the apartment complex, on the same side, near Nona's. He could exit through the rear sliding door and enter his apartment through his sliding door...little chance of detection. This could explain the missing stick and the blood smear in the sliding door blinds. He pulled them back to see if the coast was clear. How could he have gained entrance, though?

If he was a neighbor he could have been asking to borrow a cup of sugar or have some other reason to knock on her door. If she knew the neighbor, she would possibly allow access. Of course, that would beg the question, what would have occured that the neighbor would end up killing her?

[guppie]

If he was a neighbor he could have been asking to borrow a cup of sugar or have some other reason to knock on her door. If she knew the neighbor, she would possibly allow access. Of course, that would beg the question, what would have occured that the neighbor would end up killing her?

to follow along in this like of thinking, i will have to completely turn my back on all motive, circumstantial evidence, gut instinct, and just plain old commonsense. i mean certainly we should toss around other ideas, but when it gets down to it, you should always go with what your instinct tells you. i used to tell my students to debate the other side of an issue (the side they disagreed with), and it was always hard for them so they complained about it. i feel like a hypocrite if i don't do that here, but they were right, it's hard! what ya'll are talking about doesn't fit IMO. i should do some reading from the book IfIWereU mentioned last night. i don't want to get closed-minded, but want to protect my instinct too. anyone else having this dilemma?

[guppie]

I disagree....I saw the crime scene photos and also the photos of the bulb....I agree with Bacon ( at least on this point anyway, not "tacky") the position of the print on the bulb would have caused kevin to turn his arm or hand in such a way that would have probably stuck in his mind because the print was actually faced down on the carpet....meaning his palm would have had to be pointed upward.......I don't buy what you trying to sell here.....


i asked this before so i am glad it came up. was it stated in trial that the palm print was on the underside of the bulb, facing the floor? i thought that, but i wasn't sure. it would explain why the prints could have been wiped down at the base of the lamp (the part the murderer knew he touched) but the bulb was ignored and not wiped.
out of sight, out of mind???

[FDInLaw]

Authorities can extract DNA from almost any tissue, including hair, fingernails, bones, teeth and bodily fluids. Sometimes, investigators have DNA evidence but no suspects. In that case, law enforcement officials can compare crime scene DNA to profiles stored in a database. The most commonly used database in the United States is called CODIS, which stands for Combined DNA Index System. CODIS is maintained by the FBI. By law, authorities in all 50 states must collect DNA samples from convicted sex offenders for inclusion in CODIS. Some states also require all convicted felons to submit DNA.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/dna-evidence.htm


I wonder what the law is in Arkansas?

[FDInLaw]

This is a fun link about dna:

http://www.courttv.com/news/forensics/dna_anniv/dnagraphic.html

[ifIwereU]

i asked this before so i am glad it came up. was it stated in trial that the palm print was on the underside of the bulb, facing the floor? i thought that, but i wasn't sure. it would explain why the prints could have been wiped down at the base of the lamp (the part the murderer knew he touched) but the bulb was ignored and not wiped.
out of sight, out of mind???

lamp broken into pieces...the base of the lamp was more toward the sliding glass door and the bulb was closer to Nona...the bulb, if I remember right was sort of at angle (picture a square in your mind and draw a diagonal line done the center) that was how the portion of the lamp with the bulb was positioned in the room NOna's body position was sort of an the opposite diagonal line. my recollection was that if they were both exteneded the bulb portion of the lamp and nona's both would have created a flat looking "X"

[christina]

The lamp was not the open torche type, it had a regular bulb/fork and shade. In the crime scene photos(I was not prepared to see those and teared up immediately) it shows the shade on Nona's ankle and the top part of the lamp with the bulb aimed in the direction of her body about 2 feet away. It would not be hard to imagine Jones touching it when he found her especially if he turned her over. The defense asked both first repsonders about the crime scene and alluded to things being moved around by police. The lawyer said future pictures will show that.

I am "bumping up" some of my posts made during the trial since I cant find my well placed, secure notes.

[christina]

At 3:15 today Chief Bacon was brought to the stand and the first piece of evidence(other than Kevin being at Nona's apartment because he admitted to finding her) tying Jones to the scene was introduced- the bloody palm print on the light bulb. I thought to myself, this jury has sat here for an entire week and they are just now seeing this. Remember- they supposedly have only seen/heard what has been presented in court to them.
Bacon was a solid and believable witness. The key moment was when the prosecutor asked him to get up and show how the print was placed on the bulb- what position in relation to the way the lamp/lightbulb is laying next to the body, was the print placed on it. Sorry if this gets confusing but bear with me while I try to explain. We are looking at the TV with a crime scene photo of Nona's body and surroundings while the prosecutor and Bacon are standing in front of the jury acting it out. She is face up, perpendicular to her left is the part of the lamp with the bulb on it. The bulb is closest to her body about 1-2 feet away. Between her body and the bulb is blood on the carpet. There is no visible blood on the carpet on her right side. Bacon explains that the palm print is on the side of the bulb towards her feet. (if facing the bulb it is on your right) The palm is up with the fingers down.
The prosecutor asks Bacon if he could place his palm print on it while straddling the body. Bacon imitates that and reaches out as far away from his body as he can with his right arm. It is apparant it is possible. One of the jurors shrugged their shoulders, looked at another juror and mouthed "so what".
My thought was that Whiteside testified she was face down and Kevin turned her over. Kevin in his interview says he isnt sure but thinks she was face up, then another time says something like she was either face up or down but all he remembered was that he grabbed her and tried mouth to mouth and held her to keep her warm.
In the picture you see the blood on the carpet on her left side closest to the lightbulb. If she were face down, that is most likely where she would have been before being turned over. All have testified it was dark(the EMT testified it was dark and she had to turn the light on). It is not just plausible, but probable he touched the lightbulb when he got to her body and is telling the truth when he said he didn't think he touched the light.

And the other one from the trial.
Hope this helps.

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't think one would have to be in the sex offender registry to have DNA on file. DNA has been left at the scene of other crimes.

I believe anyone who has been convicted of a felony can be required to give a DNA sample. I'm not sure of this but I am sure a DNA sample is required from anyone who serves time in our state prison system.

Our DNA "suspect" is, more than likely, an ex-con and probably was not convicted of a sex crime. Perhaps his crime was residential burglary, domestic violence, assault, etc. I tend to assume it would have something to with violence if he is a viable suspect.

That makes sense. I'm not sure who is required to provide DNA for the registry either. I do know that there is a registry for putative fathers, but don't know if that would be examined.

I just have a hard time imagining that Nona (knowingly) knew and let a convict into her apartment and there isn't really any evidence of a break-in.

[FDInLaw]

I wonder what the crime scene looked like before Kevin got there? Do to his clumsy, if not incriminating, behavior how do we know when any of the blood was put there? (It's not like an Arkie jury will listen to a blood expert.) I find this whole mess infuriating. The scene was contaminated before LE made it there. All three said that the lamp was not touched but in fact it was . . . what else did Kevin touch and not "remember"??? Ugh. :mad:

[CSOKC]

I wonder what the crime scene looked like before Kevin got there? Do to his clumsy, if not incriminating, behavior how do we know when any of the blood was put there? (It's not like an Arkie jury will listen to a blood expert.) I find this whole mess infuriating. The scene was contaminated before LE made it there. All three said that the lamp was not touched but in fact it was . . . what else did Kevin touch and not "remember"??? Ugh. :mad:
I completely agree. Did he ever give a reason for touching the greeting card?

[christina]

I completely agree. Did he ever give a reason for touching the greeting card?

Looking for an address for 911

[CSOKC]

Looking for an address for 911
Oh yeah, sorry.

[ifIwereU]

And the other one from the trial.
Hope this helps.

he didn't touch the lamp when he first got there....he had to have touched her first.....then touched the light bulb...

[christina]

That makes sense. I'm not sure who is required to provide DNA for the registry either. I do know that there is a registry for putative fathers, but don't know if that would be examined.

I just have a hard time imagining that Nona (knowingly) knew and let a convict into her apartment and there isn't really any evidence of a break-in.

Pictures were shown of a large crack running down the frame of the front door during apartment manager's testimony. Also, there was no deadbolt on the front door.

[ifIwereU]

Looking for an address for 911

the address would have been on the envelope...not the card and he wouls have known that....

[christina]

I wonder what the crime scene looked like before Kevin got there? Do to his clumsy, if not incriminating, behavior how do we know when any of the blood was put there? (It's not like an Arkie jury will listen to a blood expert.) I find this whole mess infuriating. The scene was contaminated before LE made it there. All three said that the lamp was not touched but in fact it was . . . what else did Kevin touch and not "remember"??? Ugh. :mad:

I understand that you are starting with the belief that Jones is guilty, therefore you use "clumsy and incriminating" to describe his behavoir.
But it can also be seen as a young man running into a situation he has never been in before. Therefore his behavoir can understandably be erractic and not intentionally malicious.
God forbid any of us should have to face that kind of situation. And then to have everything we do analized.

[lorettalockhorn]

Looking for an address for 911

On the card??

Pictures were shown of a large crack running down the frame of the front door during apartment manager's testimony. Also, there was no deadbolt on the front door.

From what I observed of the quality of the door at a glance, the crack could have come from slamming it. Of course, I wasn't in court looking at the photos. Of course, the theory of a break-in goes along with Kevin's statement to LE on the 15th that someone broke in, hit her in the back of the head and his assumption that she was raped.

[christina]

the address would have been on the envelope...not the card and he wouls have known that....

The expectation is envelopes and cards are near each other.

[lorettalockhorn]

I understand that you are starting with the belief that Jones is guilty, therefore you use "clumsy and incriminating" to describe his behavoir.
But it can also be seen as a young man running into a situation he has never been in before. Therefore his behavoir can understandably be erractic and not intentionally malicious.
God forbid any of us should have to face that kind of situation. And then to have everything we do analized.

Did anyone ever testify as to why Kevin didn't stay on the phone as instructed by the 911 operator?

[FDInLaw]

I completely agree. Did he ever give a reason for touching the greeting card?
Some have suggested that he may have been looking for an address to tell the 911 operator. IIRC there was no envelope though.

Seriously, I don't believe enough has been said about how strange Kevin's behavior was on the crime scene. We have all heard or at least read the 911 call. The first person on the scene had to ask Kevin to get off Nona. It's one thing for the kid to lose it and hug the body when he first came in. But by the time the call was placed he stated "I think she is dead." Reality should have been setting in. . . she is dead, there is blood everywhere. . . OMG someone killed her. Why on earth was he still taking a blood bath when the EMT (?) arrived??? It was like he wanted her to see how grieved he was. . . an act. Frankly, it's no wonder he was a suspect from day one.




Laura Brown
The next witness called was Laura Brown, a Pope County EMS paramedic who was dispatched to Dirksmeyer’s apartment Dec. 15.
When she entered the apartment, she said she saw a young man “straddling” a body in the dark room.
She said she turned on the lights and Jones, who was straddling Dirksmeyer’s body, was “screaming, talking, hysterical.”
“He grabbed her behind the shoulders and lifted her up,” she said. Brown told him to put Dirksmeyer down and asked him to get up.
She said he got up on the right side of Dirksmeyer’s body and left the room. Brown said she worked from Dirksmeyer’s left side.
Unable to find a pulse, Brown said she applied cardiac monitor pads to Dirksmeyer’s chest to confirm her suspicion that Dirksmeyer was dead.
“I did not look at the back of her head,” she said. “Her right eye was bruised, her hands had blood on them ... there was dried blood on her face,” she said.
When she confirmed Dirksmeyer was dead, she “stood in one spot” to preserve the crime scene and waited for police to arrive.
She testified she observed a broken floor lamp to the left of Dirksmeyer, along with a pair of jeans turned inside-out with panties in them to the right of the body.
Gibbons asked Brown to identify a crime scene photo and to confirm if the photos accurately represented what she observed at the scene. She said yes.
http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15339&Search=kevin%20jones

[lorettalockhorn]

The expectation is envelopes and cards are near each other.

IIRC, the photograph that was shown on 48 Hours didn't show an envelope anywhere near the cards. Was that the same pic that was shown in court?

[CSOKC]

Some have suggested that he may have been looking for an address to tell the 911 operator. IIRC there was no envelope though.

Seriously, I don't believe enough has been said about how strange Kevin's behavior was on the crime scene. We have all heard or at least read the 911 call. The first person on the scene had to ask Kevin to get off Nona. It's one thing for the kid to lose it and hug the body when he first came in. But by the time the call was placed he stated "I think she is dead." Reality should have been setting in. . . she is dead, there is blood everywhere. . . OMG someone killed her. Why on earth was he still taking a blood bath when the EMT (?) arrived??? It was like he wanted her to see how grieved he was. . . an act. Frankly, it's no wonder he was a suspect from day one.


http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15339&Search=kevin%20jones

Do we know how much time elapsed between the call and the time that the EMT arrived?

[FDInLaw]

I understand that you are starting with the belief that Jones is guilty, therefore you use "clumsy and incriminating" to describe his behavoir.
But it can also be seen as a young man running into a situation he has never been in before. Therefore his behavoir can understandably be erractic and not intentionally malicious.
God forbid any of us should have to face that kind of situation. And then to have everything we do analized.I didn't start with that belief. I was told quite adamantly that there was no possible way Kevin killed Nona. The evidence suggested to the contrary and it was time for me to put aside my own initial judgments. . . yep, that's right. . . the kid totally snowed me too. Wish I could say that I knew it was him from the beginning but I can't.

[FDInLaw]

Hello all,
I am new at posting here but I have been reading these forums for many months! I would like for you all to visit this squidoo lens that I have made to honor Nona. http://www.squidoo.com/nonadirksmeyer This page will generate an income according to its rank in the squidoo system. That income will go 100% to The Liberty Kids charity. If you want to help the rank of this squidoo lens dedicated to Nona then email it to friends, leave comments in the guest book, or join squidoo and add it to your favorites list, stumble it, digg it, or give it a 5 star rating!! Please honor Nona on this squidoo lens!

Please note this is a work in progress lens! I add to this lens daily. So check back for new content.
WELCOME to the board! :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

I understand that you are starting with the belief that Jones is guilty, therefore you use "clumsy and incriminating" to describe his behavoir.
But it can also be seen as a young man running into a situation he has never been in before. Therefore his behavoir can understandably be erractic and not intentionally malicious.
God forbid any of us should have to face that kind of situation. And then to have everything we do analized.

His behavior was disrespectful and abusive. And had Nona been alive, he would have caused her more injury IMO. I'm appalled that his mother wasn't appalled by his actions and didn't make him stop. And to carry on after EMS arrived is almost unbelievable.

[FDInLaw]

His behavior was disrespectful and abusive. And had Nona been alive, he would have caused her more injury IMO. I'm appalled that his mother wasn't appalled by his actions and didn't make him stop. And to carry on after EMS arrived is almost unbelievable.
You would think that they would want the EMT to check her right away. Note that Kevin walked out of the room. . . didn't even wait to see what the EMT would say. He KNEW Nona was dead yet later he asked if she was. . .

Sgt. Tracy Edgin, the second RPD officer to arrive on the scene on the night of Dirksmeyer’s murder, testified he observed officer Larry Beyette coming down the stairs of Dirksmeyer’s apartment when he entered, noting of Jones that “his face and his hands and his arms were covered in a red substance that I believe to be blood.” He waited with Jones in the area of the stairs for approximately 15 minutes while others secured the crime scene, according to his testimony, during which time Jones asked if Dirksmeyer was dead and told Edgin he planned to ask Dirksmeyer to marry him that night. Jones kicked and hit the wall with his fist at one point, Edgin testified, although he did stop when Edgin requested he do so.
He also testified Jones told him after receiving a text message from Dirksmeyer that morning, he tried to call her “later in the day” but “she would not answer.”
http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15339&Search=kevin%20jones

[lorettalockhorn]

5-60-101. Abuse of a corpse

(a) A person commits abuse of a corpse if, except as authorized by law, he knowingly:

(1) Disinters, removes, dissects, or mutilates a corpse; or

(2) Physically mistreats a corpse in a manner offensive to a person of reasonable sensibilities.

(b) Abuse of a corpse id a Class D felony.

http://www.sherwoodpolice.org/acaonline.html

[FDInLaw]

5-60-101. Abuse of a corpse

(a) A person commits abuse of a corpse if, except as authorized by law, he knowingly:

(1) Disinters, removes, dissects, or mutilates a corpse; or

(2) Physically mistreats a corpse in a manner offensive to a person of reasonable sensibilities.

(b) Abuse of a corpse id a Class D felony.

http://www.sherwoodpolice.org/acaonline.htmlGreat. . . so if Kevin was convicted of that his girlfriends would have to stop calling him "killer Kevin" and opt for something like "corpse beater Kevin?" :cool:



(Did I really post that? :punch: )

Ugh. I need a break. . .

[lorettalockhorn]

Does anyone speak/read/understand legalese?

http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/ftproot/bills/2007/public/SB873.pdf

[lorettalockhorn]

Great. . . so if Kevin was convicted of that his girlfriends would have to stop calling him "killer Kevin" and opt for something like "corpse beater Kevin?" :cool:



(Did I really post that? :punch: )

Ugh. I need a break. . .

I think the key here is "a person of reasonable sensibilities".

[ifIwereU]

Do we know how much time elapsed between the call and the time that the EMT arrived?

roughly 8 or 9 minutes...if I remember right

[lorettalockhorn]

TAT84, I listened to one of your arrests on my scanner and it sounded anything but passive. I am curious as to why you would move back to RVille and attend ATU instead of remaining in NW Arkansas after the rumors started.

[TAT84]

If a apprehendant is being aggressive with the police when he is arrested is not customary for him to be charged with resisiting arrest and I would love to know the exact account of what you remember hearing. If your memory is that good then you could recall the officer that arrested me and if he was a local or state trooper? I do not believe that you ever heard anything like you are portraying over the scanner. The only reason i say this is because I was never charged with resisiting arrest, nor was I ever physical with any officer. I was never slammed on the hood or anything like that. I moved back to Russellville in order to go to Arkansas Tech because they are known for having an exceptional journalism department. Through my educational experience there I was able to obtain an internship and job upon my graduation. They are ranked higher than the UofA and UCA.

[lorettalockhorn]

If a apprehendant is being aggressive with the police when he is arrested is not customary for him to be charged with resisiting arrest and I would love to know the exact account of what you remember hearing. If your memory is that good then you could recall the officer that arrested me and if he was a local or state trooper? I do not believe that you ever heard anything like you are portraying over the scanner. The only reason i say this is because I was never charged with resisiting arrest, nor was I ever physical with any officer. I was never slammed on the hood or anything like that.

Gosh, it was a long time ago (early 2000s?) and I don't remember many details. It was in the northern section of town, drugs were involved. Minimally. Maybe you took exception to a vehicle search. Were you fighting with someone that night? (Not RPD, but the complainant maybe?) I definitely don't trust my memory of the details.

[TAT84]

I was not fighting with anyone that night. It was on University Avenue and I had a car full of people with me that were all my old friends. Like I said I have never been in a physical fight with anyone. Verbal arguement? Sure I do not know that many people that haven't but I do know I did not have one with a police officer. When I was picked up I knew what I had and it was wrong and there was no reason for me to try to be non cooperative. Anyways I am not going to comment anymore I have said my peace and I want this forum to go back to discussing what it was meant for.

[lorettalockhorn]

I was not fighting with anyone that night. It was on University Avenue and I had a car full of people with me that were all my old friends. Like I said I have never been in a physical fight with anyone. Verbal arguement? Sure I do not know that many people that haven't but I do know I did not have one with a police officer. When I was picked up I knew what I had and it was wrong and there was no reason for me to try to be non cooperative. Anyways I am not going to comment anymore I have said my peace and I want this forum to go back to discussing what it was meant for.

Oh okay, the incident that I heard occurred on East Aspen Lane, I believe. Must have been a different incident.

[optimumprimal78]

This was for his second offense:

http://couriernews.com/archivedrecords.php?ID=180&Search=Finley%20Turner

[hawgustusgloop]

The first time I ever saw a young lady by the name of Nona Dirksmeyer was when I went to couriernews.com the day after her murder.

So, you seriously never even met Nona? Had you ever met Kevin or any of his Kronies? Who do you think would start such a rumor?

[TAT84]

No I never met the young lady. The first time I heard about Kevin was when the murder occured. I have worked with his brother, Russell while i was a student at Tech and working in the journalism department. He is a real nice guy but did not even knew he had a brother or where he was from at the time. I would rather not comment on who I think started the rumors, I wish I knew a defintive answer about that because it is slander and defamation of character, but like I said I will monitor this forum from now on but would rather just be a watcher and reader than a contributor. There is nothing else I would like to add.

[hawgustusgloop]

No I never met the young lady. The first time I heard about Kevin was when the murder occured. I have worked with his brother, Russell while i was a student at Tech and working in the journalism department. He is a real nice guy but did not even knew he had a brother or where he was from at the time. I would rather not comment on who I think started the rumors, I wish I knew a defintive answer about that because it is slander and defamation of character, but like I said I will monitor this forum from now on but would rather just be a watcher and reader than a contributor. There is nothing else I would like to add.

Thank you for clearing that up.

[lorettalockhorn]

No I never met the young lady. The first time I heard about Kevin was when the murder occured. I have worked with his brother, Russell while i was a student at Tech and working in the journalism department. He is a real nice guy but did not even knew he had a brother or where he was from at the time. I would rather not comment on who I think started the rumors, I wish I knew a defintive answer about that because it is slander and defamation of character, but like I said I will monitor this forum from now on but would rather just be a watcher and reader than a contributor. There is nothing else I would like to add.

Thanks for letting us hear your story.

[ifIwereU]

unlike Christina...I found my notes from the few days I was at the trial...anyway, I was reading over my notes of the video statement of Jones the night of the murder...Jones tells one of the detectives in response to "did you touch anything?" JOnes says he touched the card. and the det asked if his mom or ryan touched anything and his reply: "they were careful not to touch anything my mom said don't touch nothing" "ryan just stood there and tried not to touch anything" he said he got on top of her and stayed on top of her until the police got there. in the beginning of the interview he says his mom told him to get on top of her. He also remembered hitting the wall near the stairs
according to my notes, he never referenced "why" he touched the card

I thought those snipets were interseting and wanted to share....