Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[WonderWoman]

you don't think he killed her, so what do you think?

people think I'm a jerk....does it mean I am?

IMO unless new evidence indicates otherwise....

I am like some of the jurors, I dont think that there was enough evidence to convict Kevin. Plain as that. Im my opinion, you cant convict someone on just a bloody handprint on the bulb.

[Amy]

I agree about that meesage being strange. I know before people have tried to say that that particular message wasn't anything big because it was like a joke between Nona and Kevin. I'm just not sure if I buy that. At the same time though, I can't decide if it really makes sense for him to have sent the message if he knew she was dead.

It is quite possible it is just that he wanted to establish that he tried to contact Nona, and so, of course he could have not known she was dead. Surely in all the CSI shows, he had seen the episodes where the killer did in fact "attempt" phone contact with the victim, for the very same reason.

I also think it quite suspicious that he stated he had tried to contact her numerous (I don't recall if he gave a #) times thru the day. But he only left one message? And, besides, how much of that time would she have been taking exams, and why the heck would he be trying to contact her during that time? Even if he was a selfish nitwit who just wanted to keep track of her, he should have had enough brains about him to not try to contact her during exams. (Altho, it seems the phone records did not support his statement re:number of attempts?)

[ifIwereU]

If he ran, the wouldnt more people really think that he did it??

not in light of everything that has happened.....I think most people would rather see him leave....and move on.....there are a ton of places in the US that could care less about kevin jones.....

[WonderWoman]

You didn't hear about this? CSOKC didn't make this up.


No, I didnt, What?

[Amy]

Also, it was strange to me that he asked RW to check on her, then asked him to wait for him & mommy to get there so they could all discover her body together. Everything about that scenario is odd to me.

And, was that the norm for him? To ask RW or any other buddies to check up on Nona if he couldn't contact her? Or, was this the first time, and if so, why that day? And, why ask RW to wait? (One would assume that RW needed to get back to delivering pizzas, after all.) Why not just him and mom stop by to see about Nona?

[ifIwereU]

It is quite possible it is just that he wanted to establish that he tried to contact Nona, and so, of course he could have not known she was dead. Surely in all the CSI shows, he had seen the episodes where the killer did in fact "attempt" phone contact with the victim, for the very same reason.

I also think it quite suspicious that he stated he had tried to contact her numerous (I don't recall if he gave a #) times thru the day. But he only left one message? And, besides, how much of that time would she have been taking exams, and why the heck would he be trying to contact her during that time? Even if he was a selfish nitwit who just wanted to keep track of her, he should have had enough brains about him to not try to contact her during exams. (Altho, it seems the phone records did not support his statement re:number of attempts?)

good point....in his first statement to police he could not recall exactly when he first tried to contact her by saying it was around 11 or 12....which in reality it was 2:10...

[Amy]

But what about the cell phone battery? Do you think he could have taken it after he sent that message? She wouldn't have been able to see the message if he had already taken the battery...I'm not trying to be argumentative about your points at all, please don't take it that way. I'm just trying to figure out the text too.


About receiving text messages. Now, the phone doesn't have to be turned on or even have a battery in for the text to be received to that number, does it. Say, my phone is turned off and you text me now. When I DO get around to turning my phone on, I will still receive that text then, right?

So, the battery is gone, but when LE (or whomever) put a battery in, that message would show up?

I guess I just don't get why the battery would be removed. I am an old geezer who has trouble with all this technology, but I tho't anyone under the age of at least 30 would know how these things work, and that the message IS going to show up, and the cell phone activity WILL show up on records, whether the receiving phone has a battery or not.

[Amy]

I dont understand you people sometimes! :shrug:
But hey, everyone has opinions!
If I were Kevin, I would be laying low, even if I did not kill her.

I think that is pretty much the sentiment from most posters here. Why all the public scenes, if you will. Why all the partying, etc. Not that he has to wear a hairshirt for the rest of his life because his "exclusive" g/f was killed (by him or by anyone else, dead nonetheless) but, for goodness sake, especially while awaiting trial, it would have been a very good idea to have maintained a low profile. Have a drink or two with some friends, but not to the extent that the police are involved whether it is the report of voyeurism or DUI. IMO

[FDInLaw]

No, I didnt, What?
Everything CSOKC stated in her post is true.

[WonderWoman]

Everything CSOKC stated in her post is true.


That is wild!!

[Amy]

Here is what I think....

Kevin Jones will ALWAYS be known as that person that killed Nona!!!

Am I right or wrong?

Nona's death did not make national headlines, or if it did, it was for a very short time. I never read about it on MSN, or saw anything about it on CNN, etc. I only heard about this case thru CTV message board. So, frankly, I would think that if KJ showed up in Nashville, or LA, or Timbuktu, or even St Louis or OKC (fairly close to AR) he could start his life over, under his real name, and it would be highly unlikely that anyone would have a clue who KJ is, or even who Nona Dirksmeyer was. (That is, as long as KJ didn't bring it up in his new envirnment.) IMO

[WonderWoman]

Nona's death did not make national headlines, or if it did, it was for a very short time. I never read about it on MSN, or saw anything about it on CNN, etc. I only heard about this case thru CTV message board. So, frankly, I would think that if KJ showed up in Nashville, or LA, or Timbuktu, or even St Louis or OKC (fairly close to AR) he could start his life over, under his real name, and it would be highly unlikely that anyone would have a clue who KJ is, or even who Nona Dirksmeyer was. (That is, as long as KJ didn't bring it up in his new envirnment.) IMO

I was talking about in Arkansas. Thanks!

[CSOKC]

About receiving text messages. Now, the phone doesn't have to be turned on or even have a battery in for the text to be received to that number, does it. Say, my phone is turned off and you text me now. When I DO get around to turning my phone on, I will still receive that text then, right?

So, the battery is gone, but when LE (or whomever) put a battery in, that message would show up?

I guess I just don't get why the battery would be removed. I am an old geezer who has trouble with all this technology, but I tho't anyone under the age of at least 30 would know how these things work, and that the message IS going to show up, and the cell phone activity WILL show up on records, whether the receiving phone has a battery or not.
You were right. The phone will still receive the message even if it's turned off, the battery is gone, etc. I thought ifiwereu was trying to say that he was taunting Nona, like maybe if Nona was still alive for a little while after and he texted her that just to taunt her. In that case, the battery would have needed to be in the phone for her to be able to see if. But if the taunt was for the police then as soon as they put a battery in, the message would show up.

[guppie]

Could you list examples from this mound of circumstancial evidence? As far as his behavior around the time of the alleged offense, I see nothing incriminating, considering the circumstances.


considering 90% of this entire thread discusses the circumstantial evidence in this case, i don't think i need to go over it for you again. very redundant. just use the search key. you say you don't see anything incriminating. are we looking at the same case? IMO helen keller cound see incriminating in this.

[guppie]

No, I've never met him and I definitely wouldn't hang around with him. I posted that a guy who partied with him put the pictures up, not me.

yeah, someone corrected that earlier. ok, thanks!

[FDInLaw]

good point....in his first statement to police he could not recall exactly when he first tried to contact her by saying it was around 11 or 12....which in reality it was 2:10...The "U Alive" text doesn't bother me half as much as the lies about when he started calling her. At 2pm she had an exam. . . his FIRST call was at 2:10. He stated that he expected to hear from her after her exams, yet his first call is during one. :shrug: Didn't he know she would not answer then? He didn't respond to her "cuddle bug" message. . . or did he in person? Huh. At any rate this is the sort of circumstantial evidence that really alarms me.

[ifIwereU]

I was talking about in Arkansas. Thanks!

memphis would be a good place to go unnoticed....

[ifIwereU]

You were right. The phone will still receive the message even if it's turned off, the battery is gone, etc. I thought ifiwereu was trying to say that he was taunting Nona, like maybe if Nona was still alive for a little while after and he texted her that just to taunt her. In that case, the battery would have needed to be in the phone for her to be able to see if. But if the taunt was for the police then as soon as they put a battery in, the message would show up.

sorry, I wasn't very clear on that....I was referring to the police not Nona...didn't mean to confuse

[lorettalockhorn]

based on my limited knowledge of his personality....which I feel he is a narcisist...the text, IMO, was something he did sort of like a tuant...just like how he acted at the scene....it would have been interesting to see all the text messages they pulled off her phone to see if there was in fact other "u alive" messages....if it was a joke..there would have been more than one...

I would like to know just how often "U alive" was a typical message between Kevin and Nona. Afterall, he told Schlesinger that there had never been a time when they had been out of communication before. So why would that particular phrase be necessary?

Did he take the battery thinking that it would make it impossible to determine that he wasn't calling Nona all day? And it's interesting to me that he claimed to have called her that morning, yet the 2:10 call was his first attempt according to records. We all lose track of time, but wouldn't the grammy hammy sammy have been a way to triangulate the fact that it was after lunch that he called Nona?

[FDInLaw]

considering 90% of this entire thread discusses the circumstantial evidence in this case, i don't think i need to go over it for you again. very redundant. just use the search key. you say you don't see anything incriminating. are we looking at the same case? IMO helen keller cound see incriminating in this.
:eek: You sound just like Loretta! LMBO!

[WonderWoman]

memphis would be a good place to go unnoticed....


Guess I will shut up now! lol. I think that the people that are closest to the case will think that, or at least until they convict someone?:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

[guppie]

Do you see what I am talking about? Bashing him! If your child was charged with murder, even though he was found not guilty, would you want other people bashing them? :no:


i am so glad that someone is staunchly defending kevin because it makes us more challenged and clear in our thinking. like i have said before, maybe kevin jones' punishment is the torment he must endure from his peers outside of prison. God works in mysterious ways.

KJ was found "not guilty."
just remember, "not guilty" in criminal court is NOT equivalent to INNOCENT!
a lot of us on here and in AR apparently believe KJ killed Nona & got away with it. he is going to be "bashed" for that. i am sure we will all eat crow and buy him a drink if it turns out that we were all wrong.

[lorettalockhorn]

mmmm crow.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.quite.com/personal/cafeq/graphics/crowpie.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.quite.com/personal/cafeq/querkyrecipescrowpie.htm&h=270&w=255&sz=8&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=SAWV3OSGVzlvZM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=107&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2Bcrow%2Bpie%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den

[WonderWoman]

i am so glad that someone is staunchly defending kevin because it makes us more challenged and clear in our thinking. like i have said before, maybe kevin jones' punishment is the torment he must endure from his peers outside of prison. God works in mysterious ways.

KJ was found "not guilty."
just remember, "not guilty" in criminal court is NOT equivalent to INNOCENT!
a lot of us on here and in AR apparently believe KJ killed Nona & got away with it. he is going to be "bashed" for that. i am sure we will all eat crow and buy him a drink if it turns out that we were all wrong.

YEP!! If all of this new stuff comes out to really be the killer, quite a bit of you will look pretty dumb!!!

What punishment are you talking about?? If he didnt to it, why should he be punished?

[ifIwereU]

Guess I will shut up now! lol. I think that the people that are closest to the case will think that, or at least until they convict someone?:shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

I don't really care what KJ does with his life....but if he is going to use the excuse "that he was wrongly accused" to abuse alcohol and drugs (he did it before the murder without one) maybe some straight up intervention is in order...that falls to his family and friends....call A&E maybe he can get his face on TV again....if his reputation has been tarnished because of nona's death he can move away and find a new life...Nona's family sures wished she could have that option....instead...she's dead, her reputation was drug though the mud by the defense and her family has to live with that...

[ifIwereU]

mmmm crow.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.quite.com/personal/cafeq/graphics/crowpie.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.quite.com/personal/cafeq/querkyrecipescrowpie.htm&h=270&w=255&sz=8&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=SAWV3OSGVzlvZM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=107&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2Bcrow%2Bpie%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den

LMAO

[ifIwereU]

YEP!! If all of this new stuff comes out to really be the killer, quite a bit of you will look pretty dumb!!!

What punishment are you talking about?? If he didnt to it, why should he be punished?

"pretty dumb" huh?.....
what if the new evidence doesn't reveal a new killer...what will that make you?

[FDInLaw]

mmmm crow.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.quite.com/personal/cafeq/graphics/crowpie.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.quite.com/personal/cafeq/querkyrecipescrowpie.htm&h=270&w=255&sz=8&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=SAWV3OSGVzlvZM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=107&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2Bcrow%2Bpie%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den You are one odd bird! LOL!. . . :chicken:

[guppie]

Ok. I hate this thing. It just keeps you coming back for more!

He is still partly a kid. Are you worried about keeping a good reputation? I dont understand, some of what you are saying.. Why would you want him to show remorse for what happened to Nona? If he had nothing to do with it...??? Maybe Kevins drinking is a way for him to cope with the loss of Nona. Now about the sex parties...that is just nasty and uncalled for!

kevin should learn one word: accountability
he does things that clearly worsen what people think of him and then doesn't want anyone to talk about these things?!

sex parties, yep "NASTY!" but we are not nasty bringing it up, he is nasty to have been there and in the room too! what the heck was he doing watching people have sex (rape or not, won't go there)? it's VERY disturbing. drinking/partying is not out-of-the-ordinary for a college-aged guy. i am objective on that, but KJ has crossed to the line to abnormal...that incident in particular. screaming at a girl on the street while drunk looks bad too when your gf is dead and people think you did it. college kids do get public intox occasionally. that i can chalk up. but the part about yelling at the girl looks very bad for him. he digs his own hole deeper and deeper.
and you want us to feel sorry for him?

[guppie]

Amen to that! KJ has done more to damage his image than all his "bashers" combined.

amen! he is the king of self-incrimination, it seems.

[guppie]

I think if I were Kevin, acquitted in a murder trial that was highly publicized in my area, and a whole lot of people were pretty sure I did it, I would get the heck out of town. I suppose I didn't mean Alaska specifically, just somewhere outside the area where he could be a nobody and start over. I'm not sure that would work so well for him, though, since he seems to have a hard time staying out of trouble in AR.

it's like in some demented way KJ revels in the notoriety of Nona's death. why live at or near the place where you were on trial for murdering your gf unless you like the fame of it? IMO he got away with murder and now he is boasting about it by staying there where most people think that. (espec if the hearsay about letting girls refer to him as "killer kevin" is true!) SHIVER!

[guppie]

memphis would be a good place to go unnoticed....


shut your mouth! (i'm in a Mem suburb) what about the Alaska suggestion by Hawg?!

[guppie]

:eek: You sound just like Loretta! LMBO!

maybe she's rubbing off on me. i will take it as a compliment! THANKS LO!
;)

[guppie]

YEP!! If all of this new stuff comes out to really be the killer, quite a bit of you will look pretty dumb!!!

What punishment are you talking about?? If he didnt to it, why should he be punished?

i think he DID do it. so yes, IMO, he should be punished. i am sure that's the consensus for those of us who think he did it. and i won't look dumb if i am wrong. i will be ACCOUNTABLE and admit to it.

dumb is when you are accused of murdering your gf and then make yourself look worse and worse over time leading up to the trial and just after. kevin gets me dumb*** of the year award in that regard.

[CSOKC]

Does anyone remember hearing that Kevin dropped clothes off at the Salvation Army the day of Nona's murder? Isn't this a little convenient for him? I'm sure he didn't give them clothes with blood all over them or anything, but doesn't the situation seem a little weird?

[guppie]

mmmm crow.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.quite.com/personal/cafeq/graphics/crowpie.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.quite.com/personal/cafeq/querkyrecipescrowpie.htm&h=270&w=255&sz=8&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=SAWV3OSGVzlvZM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=107&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2Bcrow%2Bpie%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den


ya'll are very comedic today. (link to crow pie) LOL
and the red sweater commentary...good lawd!

[ifIwereU]

Does anyone remember hearing that Kevin dropped clothes off at the Salvation Army the day of Nona's murder? Isn't this a little convenient for him? I'm sure he didn't give them clothes with blood all over them or anything, but doesn't the situation seem a little weird?

it was Marva...and it was stuff his mother had previously boxed up and apparently additional items he boxed up that morning while cleaning his room (cleaning his room was his alibi)

[FDInLaw]

it was Marva...and it was stuff his mother had previously boxed up and apparently additional items he boxed up that morning while cleaning his room (cleaning his room was his alibi)Remember the "location" Hawg had for the longest time? "At Marva's with the missing stick." LMBO!

Last I heard the RPD did check this rumor out.

[FDInLaw]

ya'll are very comedic today. (link to crow pie) LOL
and the red sweater commentary...good lawd!This gang is something else! Wouldn't have it any other way! :biggrin:

[WonderWoman]

"pretty dumb" huh?.....
what if the new evidence doesn't reveal a new killer...what will that make you?


Just hide and watch!!

[guppie]

Just hide and watch!!

who should hide and watch?
hmm, that sounds like advice KJ could've used a long time ago. maybe you should pass that along to him. and he should probably ditch the bright red sweater if he is going to hide. it's a little too conspicuous.

[ifIwereU]

Just hide and watch!!

I don't have to hide...

[WonderWoman]

who should hide and watch?
hmm, that sounds like advice KJ could've used a long time ago. maybe you should pass that along to him. and he should probably ditch the bright red sweater if he is going to hide. it's a little too conspicuous.

Haha! I love how yall hate on the sweater!! But I agree with you! I just hope that something comes out of this new evidence!:)

[FDInLaw]

Just hide and watch!!
:confused: :confused: Do you know something we don't?

[WonderWoman]

I don't have to hide...


lol. Just watch then... I hope something happens!:)

[WonderWoman]

:confused: :confused: Do you know something we don't?


Sure do not!

[ifIwereU]

Hey WonderWoman...not too long ago you posted that a bloody print on the murder weapon was not sufficient evidence....what makes the dna on the condom wrapper compelling "murder" evidence? just curious about your "what really happened" opinion
break it down for us.....stranger murder? passion murder? homosexual slaying? beauty pageant jealousy? tell us who you think it was, if not Kevin

remember What + Why = Who

[FDInLaw]

Sure do not!Good. 'Cause we would have to :punch: it out of you! :D (Hehehehehe)

[FDInLaw]

Hey WonderWoman...not too long ago you posted that a bloody print on the murder weapon was not sufficient evidence....what makes the dna on the condom wrapper compelling "murder" evidence? just curious about your "what really happened" opinion
break it down for us.....stranger murder? passion murder? homosexual slaying? beauty pageant jealousy? tell us who you think it was, if not Kevin

remember What + Why = WhoExcellent point and question! We're all ears. :hat:

[WonderWoman]

Good. 'Cause we would have to :punch: it out of you! :D (Hehehehehe)

Haha! I wish I did tho! You people know everything!

[FDInLaw]

Haha! I wish I did tho! You people know everything!
Sure wish that were true. . . but like everyone else, we are waiting for answers. :rose:

[ifIwereU]

Haha! I wish I did tho! You people know everything!


apparently not if KJ didn't do it....waiting for you to show us the light....

[upallnight]

Like most, I am hopeful about the new investigation that is underway. Wherein, I am convinced that Kevin was the perpetrator that faithful day, I certainly am open to being wrong. Quite frankly, it would be a relief to have a new opportunity to find justice if a new primary suspect is named. This world is obviously less than perfect, and Nona's death is a blatant statement of that. . . it is still hard to stomach that her Killer is free. If Kevin is in fact innocent, I sure hope the new PA is able to determine and build a strong case against who did. God speed to him and all who are helping him!

That said, Gibbons has received quite a bit of flack (some from me loll) BUT he did take his time deciding whether or not to prosecute Kevin. He reviewed the case numerous times and had the RPD running for weeks. The other possible suspects were interviewed several times and timelines and alibis combed over. Prosecuting Kevin was not a rash act, and there is no way the Jones family would have a case. As mentioned by someone above, Kevin did not help the situation. Maybe Kevin is just a attention seeking idiot that felt the need to twist the truth so that people would feel sorry for him? Telling the police that they were "exclusive" and that he was about to purpose. He even had the victim's Mom so worked up that she listed him as Nona's fiance in the obit. Innocent or not, Kevin has an issue with lying, one might even suggest that he is a pathological liar. I'm trying to be nice, but do y'all see my point? He failed his polygraph miserably and many of his lies were easily disputed and some involved his ALIBI folks! Add the bizarre blood bath and bloody print. . . evidence at the crime scene suggested a crime of passion. . . Kevin really stuck out and I don't blame the ROD and Gibbons one bit for going after him. Enough said.

Like many here, I am anxious for the outcome of the present investigation. I sometimes sense that Kevin's supports think that the acquittal means that Kevin should no longer be considered a possibility. This is just not the case. Yes, the owner of the dna on the condom is being looked at, but if the new PA is worth his salt he will act in the same manner that Gibbins did. He will review EVERYTHING. Personally, I am extremely grateful that Nona's murder is getting a second look. Her family and community deserve the truth and I hope we get it. One thing I think is wise to keep in mind is that the case is really "up in the air" at this point. The PA may present a whole new case and suspect at the end of this. . . there may be another person prosecuted. However, it is also very possible that he will not. We all need to be prepared for anything. It could be that he will determine that the case against Kevin was the only course of action to be taken. This investigation could clear Kevin but it could also backfire on him. We'll have to wait and see. Either way, in the end I hope we all have a clearer understanding of who is responsible for Nona's death. :rose:

Amen to all - well said!

[WonderWoman]

Hey WonderWoman...not too long ago you posted that a bloody print on the murder weapon was not sufficient evidence....what makes the dna on the condom wrapper compelling "murder" evidence? just curious about your "what really happened" opinion
break it down for us.....stranger murder? passion murder? homosexual slaying? beauty pageant jealousy? tell us who you think it was, if not Kevin

remember What + Why = Who


Ok.. Here we go...
REMEMBER... THIS IS MY OPINION!
As to my knowledge, only 1 handprint of Kevins was on the murder weapon, which is on the bulb. I would think that in order to kill a person with a floor lamp, you would bave to hold the lamp with both hands, and If Kevin was holding the light bulb when he hit Nona in the back of the head, wouldnt the bulb have broken??

[upallnight]

For what it is worth to you, Kevin did fine bashing himself.Bashing Kevin Jones!!

[WonderWoman]

apparently not if KJ didn't do it....waiting for you to show us the light....


I dont know what light you are talking about, all I see is dark!:eek:

[WonderWoman]

For what it is worth to you, Kevin did fine bashing himself.

But what do you think that some people are doing on here?:confused:

[ifIwereU]

I dont know what light you are talking about, all I see is dark!:eek:

I need you to show me the light...if you think Jones didn't do it....ENLIGHTEN me....convince me he is innocent....SHOW ME THE LIGHT or the MONEY....SHOW ME SOMETHING!!!!

[ifIwereU]

Ok.. Here we go...
REMEMBER... THIS IS MY OPINION!
As to my knowledge, only 1 handprint of Kevins was on the murder weapon, which is on the bulb. I would think that in order to kill a person with a floor lamp, you would bave to hold the lamp with both hands, and If Kevin was holding the light bulb when he hit Nona in the back of the head, wouldnt the bulb have broken??

you did not answer the question...who do you think did it and why did they do it.....this thread is not about Kevin...its about Nona....I don't care about the bulb.....I want you to tell all of us YOUR OPINION about why Nona was killed....was it a stranger murder? sexual homiicide? jealousy murder? what? :chicken:

[ifIwereU]

Ok.. Here we go...
REMEMBER... THIS IS MY OPINION!
As to my knowledge, only 1 handprint of Kevins was on the murder weapon, which is on the bulb. I would think that in order to kill a person with a floor lamp, you would bave to hold the lamp with both hands, and If Kevin was holding the light bulb when he hit Nona in the back of the head, wouldnt the bulb have broken??

I don't think he held onto the bulb while he was bashin in her skull....I think the lamp fell apart and as a natural reaction he reached to catch the bulb...and viola the print is in place just as Bacon described it.....

[WonderWoman]

you did not answer the question...who do you think did it and why did they do it.....this thread is not about Kevin...its about Nona....I don't care about the bulb.....I want you to tell all of us YOUR OPINION about why Nona was killed....was it a stranger murder? sexual homiicide? jealousy murder? what? :chicken:

:cuss: You think that if I knew all of that, we would all be here arguing? I DONT THINK SO!! Didnt Nona sleep around too?? Could have been someone she slept with that wanted a relationship with her and she wouldnt? Could have been a girl that was jealous of her?:shrug:

[ifIwereU]

Ok.. Here we go...
REMEMBER... THIS IS MY OPINION!
As to my knowledge, only 1 handprint of Kevins was on the murder weapon, which is on the bulb. I would think that in order to kill a person with a floor lamp, you would bave to hold the lamp with both hands, and If Kevin was holding the light bulb when he hit Nona in the back of the head, wouldnt the bulb have broken??


or maybe jones unscrewed the light bulb after he attempted to revive her to see if the lamp would work....
how many crime scene dwellers does it take to comtaminate a crime scene and leave a print on a light bulb?

[upallnight]

Not Guilty does not mean innocent. What about Carol's child, Nona. We look for the truth, whatever that may be. And that shaking the finger thing, maybe KJ's parents should do that to him everytime he gets into trouble again instead of looking the other way. KJ has brought this on himself. Don't think any of our children was charged with murder.
Do you see what I am talking about? Bashing him! If your child was charged with murder, even though he was found not guilty, would you want other people bashing them? :no:

[ifIwereU]

:cuss: You think that if I knew all of that, we would all be here arguing? I DONT THINK SO!! Didnt Nona sleep around too?? Could have been someone she slept with that wanted a relationship with her and she wouldnt? Could have been a girl that was jealous of her?:shrug:

so you are not sure of what kind of murder it was...you are just sure it wasn't Kevin...makes sense

[FDInLaw]

or maybe jones unscrewed the light bulb after he attempted to revive her to see if the lamp would work....
how many crime scene dwellers does it take to comtaminate a crime scene and leave a print on a light bulb?
Your wicked wit is killing me. . . killing me! Your last sentence is so true!

[WonderWoman]

Not Guilty does not mean innocent. What about Carol's child, Nona. We look for the truth, whatever that may be. And that shaking the finger thing, maybe KJ's parents should do that to him everytime he gets into trouble again instead of looking the other way. KJ has brought this on himself. Don't think any of our children was charged with murder.

You people sound like Nona was the perfect person.....:cuss:

[FDInLaw]

You people sound like Nona was the perfect person.....:cuss:Are you suggesting that she DESERVED to die??? :flamemad:

[WonderWoman]

Are you suggesting that she DESERVED to die??? :flamemad:


Oh no! Absolutely not!!! I apologize if it cama across that way!! No one deserves to have their life taken in that way!! Im sorry!:o :o :o

[ifIwereU]

:cuss: You think that if I knew all of that, we would all be here arguing? I DONT THINK SO!! Didnt Nona sleep around too?? Could have been someone she slept with that wanted a relationship with her and she wouldnt? Could have been a girl that was jealous of her?:shrug:

I will give you my opinion (not that you asked) but you don't seem to have one.....
What---I think it was a crime of passion, heated argument that got out of hand....the scene had evidence of staging...with someone that altered the thermostat...someone who knew they would not have an alibi at that particular time and was smart enough to know how to hinder the body decomp.....
Why----the perpatrator felt belittled by Nona...struck her in the face and she resisted and the fight was on...grabbed her around the neck, broke her hyoid bone, was able to grab a knife and began stabbing and slicing her...I don't think his initial motive was to kill her...but after the fight began (in his mind) he had no choice but to kill her....it was someone she knew that could identify him.....
shich brings us to
Who=someone with out an alibi for the TOD..someone she knew...someone with enough strength to break her skull....(not a woman) someone smart enough to make it look like a break/rape
someone that could get mad enough over finding out Nona was cheating and feel disrespected....it was someonw who cared enought about her to get mad at her....anger is love dissappointed (to steal a lyric from the Eagles)

[guppie]

The "U Alive" text doesn't bother me half as much as the lies about when he started calling her. At 2pm she had an exam. . . his FIRST call was at 2:10. He stated that he expected to hear from her after her exams, yet his first call is during one. :shrug: Didn't he know she would not answer then? He didn't respond to her "cuddle bug" message. . . or did he in person? Huh. At any rate this is the sort of circumstantial evidence that really alarms me.

i agree, KJ said on 48 hrs he had been trying to reach Nona all day, yet phone records clearly indicate he did not. LIE! not to mention, he had seen her less than 24 hrs earlier! then why "worry?" she was studying and had exams and a dinner scheduled...busy busy. more reasons not to worry. yes, i also think that he didn't answer the "cuddle bug text" by phone but instead in person. makes sense to me.
thanks FD!

here ya go, Sololobo! posts re: circumstantial evidence. one down, a million to go!

anyhoo, re; the "U Alive?" text....i know that my sister and i have a silly thing where we say "did i miss the funeral"? or "did you fall off the earth?" if we haven't talked in a while. IMO, to KJ, this type of sarcasm would make it appear to others like he thought Nona was fine and just not in touch with him. thus, using reverse psychology as if to say "obviously i wouldn't text 'U ALIVE' to Nona if i knew she was dead." IMO, this is another example KJ attempting to carry on like nothing was unusual when he knew Nona was dead. so add this one into the mounds of circumstantial evidence. "mounds"...i am going to keep saying that now. sorry!

[FDInLaw]

Oh no! Absolutely not!!! I apologize if it cama across that way!! No one deserves to have their life taken in that way!! Im sorry!:o :o :oThen what point were you trying to make? During the trial much of Kevin's dirty laundry was blocked from the jury, but NONE of Nona's. Has her life not been exposed enough for your liking? Are we suppose to sit around here and bash someone that has no opportunity to speak for herself? She is dead. If she made mistakes, she has no opportunity to make amends or chose a new path. She is dead. The finality of her fate should compel us to respect her memory IMO.

[hawgustusgloop]

:cuss: You think that if I knew all of that, we would all be here arguing? I DONT THINK SO!! Didnt Nona sleep around too?? Could have been someone she slept with that wanted a relationship with her and she wouldnt? Could have been a girl that was jealous of her?:shrug:

Oh, no. Victim bashing? Check. Overuse of irritating smilies? Check. Not giving any real opinion on the case? Check. I have a bad feeling about this.

[guppie]

Hey WonderWoman...not too long ago you posted that a bloody print on the murder weapon was not sufficient evidence....what makes the dna on the condom wrapper compelling "murder" evidence? just curious about your "what really happened" opinion
break it down for us.....stranger murder? passion murder? homosexual slaying? beauty pageant jealousy? tell us who you think it was, if not Kevin

remember What + Why = Who

excellent question, ifIwereU! where is the logic in WW's statement?

[guppie]

Ok.. Here we go...
REMEMBER... THIS IS MY OPINION!
As to my knowledge, only 1 handprint of Kevins was on the murder weapon, which is on the bulb. I would think that in order to kill a person with a floor lamp, you would bave to hold the lamp with both hands, and If Kevin was holding the light bulb when he hit Nona in the back of the head, wouldnt the bulb have broken??

umm, i haven't been on this thread that long, but i have been here long enough to know that i have not seen a single person claim they thought KJ grabbed the lamp by the bulb to kill Nona. what are you talking about?

[FDInLaw]

Oh, no. Victim bashing? Check. Overuse of irritating smilies? Check. Not giving any real opinion on the case? Check. I have a bad feeling about this.Oh, gosh. . . don't tell me that avatars are going to start changing to annoying red & white sweater pics! ROTFL!!! :biggrin:

[guppie]

You people sound like Nona was the perfect person.....:cuss:

WHOA! what the heck does that have to do with anything?
you are sounding a lot like KJ's enabling mother, WonderWoman. is that you, JJ?

[guppie]

I will give you my opinion (not that you asked) but you don't seem to have one.....
What---I think it was a crime of passion, heated argument that got out of hand....the scene had evidence of staging...with someone that altered the thermostat...someone who knew they would not have an alibi at that particular time and was smart enough to know how to hinder the body decomp.....
Why----the perpatrator felt belittled by Nona...struck her in the face and she resisted and the fight was on...grabbed her around the neck, broke her hyoid bone, was able to grab a knife and began stabbing and slicing her...I don't think his initial motive was to kill her...but after the fight began (in his mind) he had no choice but to kill her....it was someone she knew that could identify him.....
shich brings us to
Who=someone with out an alibi for the TOD..someone she knew...someone with enough strength to break her skull....(not a woman) someone smart enough to make it look like a break/rape
someone that could get mad enough over finding out Nona was cheating and feel disrespected....it was someonw who cared enought about her to get mad at her....anger is love dissappointed (to steal a lyric from the Eagles)

thank you, if IwereU, for giving more "circumstantials" so i dont have to write them all out! exactly, who else cared enough to get that angry at her?

[upallnight]

Uh oh??????
"pretty dumb" huh?.....
what if the new evidence doesn't reveal a new killer...what will that make you?

[WonderWoman]

WHOA! what the heck does that have to do with anything?
you are sounding a lot like KJ's enabling mother, WonderWoman. is that you, JJ?

OMG!!

[WonderWoman]

umm, i haven't been on this thread that long, but i have been here long enough to know that i have not seen a single person claim they thought KJ grabbed the lamp by the bulb to kill Nona. what are you talking about?

the only print that was kevins was on the bulb.

[WonderWoman]

Then what point were you trying to make? During the trial much of Kevin's dirty laundry was blocked from the jury, but NONE of Nona's. Has her life not been exposed enough for your liking? Are we suppose to sit around here and bash someone that has no opportunity to speak for herself? She is dead. If she made mistakes, she has no opportunity to make amends or chose a new path. She is dead. The finality of her fate should compel us to respect her memory IMO.

All I am saying, is that they both slept around. What if Nona slept with a guy, and then he wanted a relaitonship, and Nona said no? That person could have killed her???:confused:

[Amy]

mmmm crow.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.quite.com/personal/cafeq/graphics/crowpie.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.quite.com/personal/cafeq/querkyrecipescrowpie.htm&h=270&w=255&sz=8&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=SAWV3OSGVzlvZM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=107&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2Bcrow%2Bpie%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den


Better crow than say, grasshoppers or worms, IMO!!!

Hmmm, might not be too bad with enough Guiness in the dish, or in the cook!!! lol

[guppie]

the only print that was kevins was on the bulb.


uh, yeah, and? could it be that KJ wiped the prints off the lamp base where he held it and missed the one one the bulb because A) maybe the bulb was turned face down and he missed it? or B) maybe the bulb was far enough away from direct line of sight (since he would have been concentrating on the base that was held) and he didn't look there? no one on here thinks he held the lamp by the bulb! that is silly.

[upallnight]

What the heck could that mean? Care to explain or give us the inside scoop?
Just hide and watch!!

[guppie]

All I am saying, is that they both slept around. What if Nona slept with a guy, and then he wanted a relaitonship, and Nona said no? That person could have killed her???:confused:

please make a logical argument. please. it is highly unlikely that a guy Nona had sex with a few times would have the motive to kill her.

the bf of many years who went away to the SEC school to do what he wanted when he wanted (yet have his beautiful h.s. gf stay home and only sleep with him when he returned at his convenience) certainly has MUCH more of a motive than anyone else!

[WonderWoman]

What the heck could that mean? Care to explain or give us the inside scoop?

I dont have any inside scoop!!! I just mean I hope something comes out of this new stuff!

[WonderWoman]

please make a logical argument. please. it is highly unlikely that a guy Nona had sex with a few times would have the motive to kill her.

the bf of many years who went away to the SEC school to do what he wanted when he wanted (yet have his beautiful h.s. gf stay home and only sleep with him when he returned at his convenience) certainly has MUCH more of a motive than anyone else!

I am just stating my opinion!!!:cuss:

[FDInLaw]

Oh, no. Victim bashing? Check. Overuse of irritating smilies? Check. Not giving any real opinion on the case? Check. I have a bad feeling about this.
You forgot one. . . reputation points keep increasing. Check! :eek:

[FDInLaw]

I am just stating my opinion!!!:cuss:

Now, now. . . don't get flustered.

I'm a little disappointed in Nora. . . I saw her lurking and she didn't bother lending you a hand. :(

[upallnight]

I guess like everyone I simply want the truth to be known. There is a killer out there, someone killed Nona. KJ was put on trial and found not guilty, but I know that does not mean his is innocent. There are still many questions unanswered. I believe this new investigation could go either way, possibly a new arrest, possibly more evidence against KJ. Then again, it may not lead to either. I just know it needs to be addressed as it is being done (by this new S/Proc.) because Nona's killer remains free, and we all have our opinion on who that person is based on what we know to date. I can only speak for myself because some people may have a different agenda on here. I only want Justice For Nona.



But what do you think that some people are doing on here?:confused:

[ifIwereU]

I am just stating my opinion!!!:cuss:

what evidence, in your opinion states clearly that Jones didn't do it?

[WonderWoman]

what evidence, in your opinion states clearly that Jones didn't do it?\

I just dont see how one handprint on the bulb could say that he clearly did it for sure!!!

[ifIwereU]

\

I just dont see how one handprint on the bulb could say that he clearly did it for sure!!!
I did not say that either....I am considering the totality of the circumstances...to make my judgements...what say you?

[WonderWoman]

I guess like everyone I simply want the truth to be known. There is a killer out there, someone killed Nona. KJ was put on trial and found not guilty, but I know that does not mean his is innocent. There are still many questions unanswered. I believe this new investigation could go either way, possibly a new arrest, possibly more evidence against KJ. Then again, it may not lead to either. I just know it needs to be addressed as it is being done (by this new S/Proc.) because Nona's killer remains free, and we all have our opinion on who that person is based on what we know to date. I can only speak for myself because some people may have a different agenda on here. I only want Justice For Nona.

But in the meantime, you are here bashing Kevin!

[CSOKC]

\

I just dont see how one handprint on the bulb could say that he clearly did it for sure!!!
Well that's the thing, it doesn't clearly say that he did it. If it did, then he would have been found guilty instead of not guilty. I think everyone here just wants you to give some of your opinions as to why you think Kevin is innocent. So far we've had a difficult time getting that out of you, and everybody else that comes on here saying that he is innocent. We're not even asking for facts, just your opinion.

[lorettalockhorn]

But in the meantime, you are here bashing Kevin!

In the meantime, KJ makes an arse of himself in public, breaks the law in my town (as opposed to the jury's town), and some of us comment on it.

[upallnight]

You people sound like Nona was the perfect person.....:cuss:

What? Nona was murdered. She did not hurt anyone, from what I know she helped many people. She was not out drinking, doing drugs, watching others have sex. Did you know Nona? I knew her, not as well as others but I saw a sweet beautiful person inside and out. She was kind, she cared about people, she cared about animals, she cared. Good God, can you honestly show me one thing she did to hurt anyone? What is now public information on Nona's personal life was only due to KJ's defense team wanting that to be public knowledge. Nona herself did not publicly disgrace herself like KJ, nor disgrace her family. KJ has done this more than once. No respect for his family. His are self inflicted wounds, Nona's was not. She was brutally murdered! No One is perfect, everyone has a secret or two. Most people do not invite trouble, they do not stalk others and my list could go on and on. I have told my own children you get the respect you give. You have the choice to behave or not to behave. Everything you do good or bad effects the whole family. Again, I do not think for one minute at this point KJ shows any signs of respect for anyone not even himself. Just shows more and more signs of how disfunctional and selfish he really is IMO and my opinion only. Perfect? It is not a perfect world by any means, if it was Nona would still be here and she would be the likely person to yet again help/touch another person such as her reputation was.

[WonderWoman]

Well that's the thing, it doesn't clearly say that he did it. If it did, then he would have been found guilty instead of not guilty. I think everyone here just wants you to give some of your opinions as to why you think Kevin is innocent. So far we've had a difficult time getting that out of you, and everybody else that comes on here saying that he is innocent. We're not even asking for facts, just your opinion.

And I have given that to you!!!:shrug:

[CSOKC]

And I have given that to you!!!:shrug:
So your only opinion about his innocence is that his print was on the bulb and not the base?

[upallnight]

But in the meantime, you are here bashing Kevin!

Call it as you see it. That is all I am doing. Bash, no bash it is just my opinion. I will see if that changes or not based on evidence.

[WonderWoman]

So your only opinion about his innocence is that his print was on the bulb and not the base?

Not necessarily, but then again, dna on a condem wrapper is not strong enough to convict someone!!:shrug:

[lorettalockhorn]

In the meantime, KJ makes an arse of himself in public, breaks the law in my town (as opposed to the jury's town), and some of us comment on it.

And interestingly, in the wee hours of the morning after the two year anniversary of Nona's death, it was Kevin's loud verbal abuse of a woman that brought him to the attention of law enforcement.

(Is it okay to quote yourself? :punch: )

[FDInLaw]

Not necessarily, but then again, dna on a condem wrapper is not strong enough to convict someone!!:shrug:Did the wrapper kill her? Was her blood on it (in other words, is there anything that places it there during the crime?)?

Yes, it's presence needs to be explained and it is presently being investigated. Since LE now has a dna lead, when it was placed there and why are the questions that need to be answered. Depending on the outcome of that, we will know (hopefully) if it had any connection to the murder. Don't forget, there are several possible explanations for it being there (trigger ~ the person that left it is not the murder. Plant ~ it was left with the intention of throwing the police off. Just happened to be there ~ it has no actual connection to the case). We need to wait and see what the evidence suggests before coming to a conclusion. As it is, we do not even know whose dna it is! What it the owner was out of town? A lot of unanswered questions. I think a lot of folks are getting too excited too fast. JMO

[ifIwereU]

But in the meantime, you are here bashing Kevin!

no....its not bashing......unfortunately for him we are stating the facts....because most of us are appalled by his behavior considering the torment he had put his family thruin the weeks and months after Nona's murder....you should be apppalled by his behavior as well....regardless if he murdered her or not...I would not pander to kids the way some have done to JOnes...

[guppie]

\

I just dont see how one handprint on the bulb could say that he clearly did it for sure!!!

wonderwoman, i hate to ever speak for others. but from what i have read on here, those who think KJ is guilty do NOT think it ONLY because of that print. that is absurd.
i agree, one print on a bulb does not flash "GUILT" in my mind. in fact, i mostly base my opinion that KJ did it on KJ's own words and demeanor. i said it before and i will say it again, KJ is his own worst enemy.

those of us who think he did it have shared our reasoning why we think so. so please, share all the reasons you think he did not do it. i am waiting to hear. there are those of us who would love you to convince us we are wrong. in fact, that was why i first started posting here. i had hoped i would see that my impression of him after watching 48 hrs was wrong. so far, IMO, there has been no one who can give a good argument on KJ's behalf.

[guppie]

What? Nona was murdered. She did not hurt anyone, from what I know she helped many people. She was not out drinking, doing drugs, watching others have sex. Did you know Nona? I knew her, not as well as others but I saw a sweet beautiful person inside and out. She was kind, she cared about people, she cared about animals, she cared. Good God, can you honestly show me one thing she did to hurt anyone? What is now public information on Nona's personal life was only due to KJ's defense team wanting that to be public knowledge. Nona herself did not publicly disgrace herself like KJ, nor disgrace her family. KJ has done this more than once. No respect for his family. His are self inflicted wounds, Nona's was not. She was brutally murdered! No One is perfect, everyone has a secret or two. Most people do not invite trouble, they do not stalk others and my list could go on and on. I have told my own children you get the respect you give. You have the choice to behave or not to behave. Everything you do good or bad effects the whole family. Again, I do not think for one minute at this point KJ shows any signs of respect for anyone not even himself. Just shows more and more signs of how disfunctional and selfish he really is IMO and my opinion only. Perfect? It is not a perfect world by any means, if it was Nona would still be here and she would be the likely person to yet again help/touch another person such as her reputation was.


BEAUTIFULLY PUT! BRAVO!

[christina]

About receiving text messages. Now, the phone doesn't have to be turned on or even have a battery in for the text to be received to that number, does it. Say, my phone is turned off and you text me now. When I DO get around to turning my phone on, I will still receive that text then, right?

So, the battery is gone, but when LE (or whomever) put a battery in, that message would show up?

I guess I just don't get why the battery would be removed. I am an old geezer who has trouble with all this technology, but I tho't anyone under the age of at least 30 would know how these things work, and that the message IS going to show up, and the cell phone activity WILL show up on records, whether the receiving phone has a battery or not.

Not all phones show what time the message was sent/received when the phone is turned off and then powered back up. Some will show the message as being sent at the time the phone was turned on.
If I remember correctly, Nona had an older version of a simple phone. The female state trooper testified for the prosecution that she retrieved from the cell phone service provider the records as to date and time and number. Only so much could be retreived from the phone itself because it depended on what was saved to the SIM card and what was just on the phone.
As for the battery removal...the phone was first scene by Det Frost under the kitchen table with the back and battery off/not in site. When he came back downstairs the cell phone was on the coffee table.
I have always believed that the battery missing was not sinister or worthy of much focus. It appeared from the testimony that the phone was probably flung across the kitchen at some point. Because it was an older version(candy bar type) phone the back and battery would come out fairly easily. And with the lack of detective skills used in the crime scene, I have no problem believing they were simply not found.

[christina]

Did the wrapper kill her? Was her blood on it (in other words, is there anything that places it there during the crime?)?

Yes, it's presence needs to be explained and it is presently being investigated. Since LE now has a dna lead, when it was placed there and why are the questions that need to be answered. Depending on the outcome of that, we will know (hopefully) if it had any connection to the murder. Don't forget, there are several possible explanations for it being there (trigger ~ the person that left it is not the murder. Plant ~ it was left with the intention of throwing the police off. Just happened to be there ~ it has no actual connection to the case). We need to wait and see what the evidence suggests before coming to a conclusion. As it is, we do not even know whose dna it is! What it the owner was out of town? A lot of unanswered questions. I think a lot of folks are getting too excited too fast. JMO

Male dna on a condom wrapper at a murder crime scene where the victim is naked- demands an answer. And the police not obtaining the dna, regardless of whose advice they followed, need to answer why.
I agree, we must exhibit patience as we wait to see what other evidence, if any, is being looked at.

[lorettalockhorn]

I have always believed that the battery missing was not sinister or worthy of much focus. It appeared from the testimony that the phone was probably flung across the kitchen at some point. Because it was an older version(candy bar type) phone the back and battery would come out fairly easily. And with the lack of detective skills used in the crime scene, I have no problem believing they were simply not found.

So the battery was not found by LE, or when Nona's belongings were moved out, or by the apartment management. The people living there now should search for it! I've heard that FOK have rented it, they should try to clear their friend by finding it and turning it over to the investigators.

Male dna on a condom wrapper at a murder crime scene where the victim is naked- demands an answer. And the police not obtaining the dna, regardless of whose advice they followed, need to answer why.
I agree, we must exhibit patience as we wait to see what other evidence, if any, is being looked at.

Seriously, when RPD was told that they couldn't obtain both DNA and fingerprints from the wrapper, what should they have done? Sheesh, I would think that the defense should be happy that the wrapper was turned over to them. Do you think that they paid for the DNA testing themselves?

I still find it interesting that the DNA donor was identified sometime in December (if the timing of the special prosecutor's appointment means anything), yet the defense chose the first week of Feb to do their showboating. Er uh, make a press release during an on-going investigation.

[guppie]

Not all phones show what time the message was sent/received when the phone is turned off and then powered back up. Some will show the message as being sent at the time the phone was turned on.
If I remember correctly, Nona had an older version of a simple phone. The female state trooper testified for the prosecution that she retrieved from the cell phone service provider the records as to date and time and number. Only so much could be retreived from the phone itself because it depended on what was saved to the SIM card and what was just on the phone.
As for the battery removal...the phone was first scene by Det Frost under the kitchen table with the back and battery off/not in site. When he came back downstairs the cell phone was on the coffee table.
I have always believed that the battery missing was not sinister or worthy of much focus. It appeared from the testimony that the phone was probably flung across the kitchen at some point. Because it was an older version(candy bar type) phone the back and battery would come out fairly easily. And with the lack of detective skills used in the crime scene, I have no problem believing they were simply not found.

christina, i was with ya right up until the last paragraph. i just don't think those two things (back of phone and battery) were overlooked. i have not made up my mind about why they were missing, but i am more inclined to think that the murderer took the battery: A) so Nona would have no way to call for help or B) to hide access to certain text(s) the person did not want seen or C) both. since this was so long ago, maybe the murderer didn't think that texts would show if they took the battery. ?? to accomplish "B" (if that were the goal) it seems like they would have taken the SIM card instead of the battery, so i lean more toward reason A in my thinking.

sorry, i don't know what's with my multiple choice lettering today?!

[ifIwereU]

So the battery was not found by LE, or when Nona's belongings were moved out, or by the apartment management. The people living there now should search for it! I've heard that FOK have rented it, they should try to clear their friend by finding it and turning it over to the investigators.



Seriously, when RPD was told that they couldn't obtain both DNA and fingerprints from the wrapper, what should they have done? Sheesh, I would think that the defense should be happy that the wrapper was turned over to them. Do you think that they paid for the DNA testing themselves?

I still find it interesting that the DNA donor was identified sometime in December (if the timing of the special prosecutor's appointment means anything), yet the defense chose the first week of Feb to do their showboating. Er uh, make a press release during an on-going investigation.

i agree that the dna announcement is odd.....Dec? very interesting......the attorney Robbins presents himself as being a snake....JMO

[christina]

christina, i was with ya right up until the last paragraph. i just don't think those two things (back of phone and battery) were overlooked. i have not made up my mind about why they were missing, but i am more inclined to think that the murderer took the battery: A) so Nona would have no way to call for help or B) to hide access to certain text(s) the person did not want seen or C) both. since this was so long ago, maybe the murderer didn't think that texts would show if they took the battery. ?? to accomplish "B" (if that were the goal) it seems like they would have taken the SIM card instead of the battery, so i lean more toward reason A in my thinking.

sorry, i don't know what's with my multiple choice lettering today?!

The flaw in that thinking is A)It was testified to that Nona died fairly quickly, I assume the killer would have not been attmepting to keep her from calling anyone. And if by some chance they did-they would have taken the whole phone and not just the battery.
B) If they were attempting to hide texts, they would be stupid to think taking the battery would solve that. And again would ahve needed to take the SIM card(as you suggested) or simply the whole phone.
C)I do not see the murderer stopping to take the time to only take the battery.
Although murder is not logical to mainstream society, it is not logical that the whole phone was not taken. It makes more sense to me that the battery and back were simply overlooked. Yes Lorretta, even by more than one person.

Personally, I like the lettering method you are using- it keeps things straight!

[lorettalockhorn]

christina, i was with ya right up until the last paragraph. i just don't think those two things (back of phone and battery) were overlooked. i have not made up my mind about why they were missing, but i am more inclined to think that the murderer took the battery: A) so Nona would have no way to call for help or B) to hide access to certain text(s) the person did not want seen or C) both. since this was so long ago, maybe the murderer didn't think that texts would show if they took the battery. ?? to accomplish "B" (if that were the goal) it seems like they would have taken the SIM card instead of the battery, so i lean more toward reason A in my thinking.

sorry, i don't know what's with my multiple choice lettering today?!


Well, I like it that kind of enumerating or whatever you call it when it's letters. (Unless you're giving me the binness again! LMAO)

[ifIwereU]

The flaw in that thinking is A)It was testified to that Nona died fairly quickly, I assume the killer would have not been attmepting to keep her from calling anyone. And if by some chance they did-they would have taken the whole phone and not just the battery.
B) If they were attempting to hide texts, they would be stupid to think taking the battery would solve that. And again would ahve needed to take the SIM card(as you suggested) or simply the whole phone.
C)I do not see the murderer stopping to take the time to only take the battery.
Although murder is not logical to mainstream society, it is not logical that the whole phone was not taken. It makes more sense to me that the battery and back were simply overlooked. Yes Lorretta, even by more than one person.

Personally, I like the lettering method you are using- it keeps things straight!

texts that have already been sent (i.e. message from Trey) would remain on the phone...while those sent after the battery was removed will not....so its logical to me to think that Jones left the phone to show the last text from Trey, which he saw.....thinking the police would see it as the last connect that Nona had on that day....this would lead the police to Trey

[guppie]

The flaw in that thinking is A)It was testified to that Nona died fairly quickly, I assume the killer would have not been attmepting to keep her from calling anyone. And if by some chance they did-they would have taken the whole phone and not just the battery.
B) If they were attempting to hide texts, they would be stupid to think taking the battery would solve that. And again would ahve needed to take the SIM card(as you suggested) or simply the whole phone.
C)I do not see the murderer stopping to take the time to only take the battery.
Although murder is not logical to mainstream society, it is not logical that the whole phone was not taken. It makes more sense to me that the battery and back were simply overlooked. Yes Lorretta, even by more than one person.

Personally, I like the lettering method you are using- it keeps things straight!

thanks. well, even though i'm unsure about the cell phone, i sure appreciate your ability to back up your ideas. it certainly is a nice change from today's clueless postings from....
well, i will stop. i don't wanna insult the chickens. (maybe no one except ifIwereU will get that joke)

[ifIwereU]

Not all phones show what time the message was sent/received when the phone is turned off and then powered back up. Some will show the message as being sent at the time the phone was turned on.
If I remember correctly, Nona had an older version of a simple phone. The female state trooper testified for the prosecution that she retrieved from the cell phone service provider the records as to date and time and number. Only so much could be retreived from the phone itself because it depended on what was saved to the SIM card and what was just on the phone.
As for the battery removal...the phone was first scene by Det Frost under the kitchen table with the back and battery off/not in site. When he came back downstairs the cell phone was on the coffee table.
I have always believed that the battery missing was not sinister or worthy of much focus. It appeared from the testimony that the phone was probably flung across the kitchen at some point. Because it was an older version(candy bar type) phone the back and battery would come out fairly easily. And with the lack of detective skills used in the crime scene, I have no problem believing they were simply not found.


HEY Christina you were at the trial, right? I was curious what presense the state police had at the trial and the case in general....I saw the female trooper testify and heard about one other trooper that testified....was there much ASP involvement? It seems logical that the new PA would contact them for assistance...unless there was a conflict...do you remember what their attitude what like at the trial? were they of the same opinion as RPD or indifferent?

[ifIwereU]

thanks. well, even though i'm unsure about the cell phone, i sure appreciate your ability to back up your ideas. it certainly is a nice change from today's clueless postings from....
well, i will stop. i don't wanna insult the chickens. (maybe no one except ifIwereU will get that joke)

:chicken:
bock bock bock

[guppie]

The flaw in that thinking is A)It was testified to that Nona died fairly quickly, I assume the killer would have not been attmepting to keep her from calling anyone. And if by some chance they did-they would have taken the whole phone and not just the battery.
B) If they were attempting to hide texts, they would be stupid to think taking the battery would solve that. And again would ahve needed to take the SIM card(as you suggested) or simply the whole phone.
C)I do not see the murderer stopping to take the time to only take the battery.
Although murder is not logical to mainstream society, it is not logical that the whole phone was not taken. It makes more sense to me that the battery and back were simply overlooked. Yes Lorretta, even by more than one person.

Personally, I like the lettering method you are using- it keeps things straight!

well, although it was apparently decided that Nona died quickly, that doesn't mean that the killer knew she was dead.

[upallnight]

The flaw in that thinking is A)It was testified to that Nona died fairly quickly, I assume the killer would have not been attmepting to keep her from calling anyone. And if by some chance they did-they would have taken the whole phone and not just the battery.
B) If they were attempting to hide texts, they would be stupid to think taking the battery would solve that. And again would ahve needed to take the SIM card(as you suggested) or simply the whole phone.
C)I do not see the murderer stopping to take the time to only take the battery.
Although murder is not logical to mainstream society, it is not logical that the whole phone was not taken. It makes more sense to me that the battery and back were simply overlooked. Yes Lorretta, even by more than one person.

Personally, I like the lettering method you are using- it keeps things straight!

I thought is was stated Nona could have lived up to 30 minutes. If this is so then maybe the killer was not 100% sure she was dead and wanted to prevent this if she was to try to call by taking the battery only. Maybe Nona had attempted to get her phone during the attack and the killer took the battery out just to taunt her. So many things it could be but I can't see it being over looked by so many people. A long stick is gone, I think a battery would not be that hard to take along with it. I think a phone battery is not like a needle in a hay stack, I tend to believe someone has this. I would think when Nona's family went to retrieve Nona's things that would be one thing they would be keeping a eye out for. Plus I am sure the apartment was cleaned, I am not sure which is what I think, yes, taking the battery out would not stop her messages, etc. from showing. Taking the sim card would seem to hide more I guess. But again, maybe this killer took the battery out before Nona was actually hit with the Lamp base, like saying I have the battery, you can't call for help. I don't know that seems more to me what might have happened with all considered. I don't know Christina, just trying to go through it all, maybe it was overlooked, I just can't see that being so many was in that apartment at different times. Two eyes better than one thing I guess.

[guppie]

:chicken:
bock bock bock

aww, he's kinda cute. see, don't insult the chickens.
ok, back on subject now. let's talk wrapper dna. apparently, even though the dna has been identified (assuming that is true) they still cannot place the dna owner in the vicinity of the crime...at least that is my thinking.
dna owner...is that even a term?
do things always take so dang long in AR? just kidding!

[guppie]

I thought is was stated Nona could have lived up to 30 minutes. If this is so then maybe the killer was not 100% sure she was dead and wanted to prevent this if she was to try to call by taking the battery only. Maybe Nona had attempted to get her phone during the attack and the killer took the battery out just to taunt her. So many things it could be but I can't see it being over looked by so many people. A long stick is gone, I think a battery would not be that hard to take along with it. I think a phone battery is not like a needle in a hay stack, I tend to believe someone has this. I would think when Nona's family went to retrieve Nona's things that would be one thing they would be keeping a eye out for. Plus I am sure the apartment was cleaned, I am not sure which is what I think, yes, taking the battery out would not stop her messages, etc. from showing. Taking the sim card would seem to hide more I guess. But again, maybe this killer took the battery out before Nona was actually hit with the Lamp base, like saying I have the battery, you can't call for help. I don't know that seems more to me what might have happened with all considered. I don't know Christina, just trying to go through it all, maybe it was overlooked, I just can't see that being so many was in that apartment at different times. Two eyes better than one thing I guess.

this sounds more logical to me now that i ponder it. i bet all of us who have had a crazy bf who is jealous can agree that at some point in a fight he threw our phone or took the battery out so we couldn't use it. it is certainly believable that the battery was taken before the fatal blow during the course of an argument...most likely over a text received from another guy. hmm

side note to christina-how do you overlook so many things that point to kevin? no matter how i try to consider other possibilities, i can't seem to get away from the amount of things that point to him. i am trying to be as objective as possible. i swear i am!

[jonikay]

I thought is was stated Nona could have lived up to 30 minutes. If this is so then maybe the killer was not 100% sure she was dead and wanted to prevent this if she was to try to call by taking the battery only. Maybe Nona had attempted to get her phone during the attack and the killer took the battery out just to taunt her. So many things it could be but I can't see it being over looked by so many people. A long stick is gone, I think a battery would not be that hard to take along with it. I think a phone battery is not like a needle in a hay stack, I tend to believe someone has this. I would think when Nona's family went to retrieve Nona's things that would be one thing they would be keeping a eye out for. Plus I am sure the apartment was cleaned, I am not sure which is what I think, yes, taking the battery out would not stop her messages, etc. from showing. Taking the sim card would seem to hide more I guess. But again, maybe this killer took the battery out before Nona was actually hit with the Lamp base, like saying I have the battery, you can't call for help. I don't know that seems more to me what might have happened with all considered. I don't know Christina, just trying to go through it all, maybe it was overlooked, I just can't see that being so many was in that apartment at different times. Two eyes better than one thing I guess.
True. It was stated that Nona probably lived 30 minutes after the attack. Whoever did this left her to suffer and die a very tragic and painful death. Every blow she was dealt, she felt. IMO, 30 minutes is not quick, considering the brutality of the crime. If she was breathing before the killer left, and the attack was said to be a "crime of passion," a text reading, "U ALIVE" seems more sinister every time I think about it. I have a hard time believing this was a term of endearment for the couple.

[lorettalockhorn]

The flaw in that thinking is A)It was testified to that Nona died fairly quickly, I assume the killer would have not been attmepting to keep her from calling anyone. And if by some chance they did-they would have taken the whole phone and not just the battery.
B) If they were attempting to hide texts, they would be stupid to think taking the battery would solve that. And again would ahve needed to take the SIM card(as you suggested) or simply the whole phone.
C)I do not see the murderer stopping to take the time to only take the battery.
Although murder is not logical to mainstream society, it is not logical that the whole phone was not taken. It makes more sense to me that the battery and back were simply overlooked. Yes Lorretta, even by more than one person.

Personally, I like the lettering method you are using- it keeps things straight!

If the battery was dislodged from the phone, it may have been simply easy to grab. And yes, more than one person would have had to not notice the battery if it was still in the apartment. Dozens. Surely.

[jonikay]

Well, I don't know how this matches the "very important evidence overlooked by people for a few years," (silly IMO, but not COMPLETELY far fetched given the lack of protocol for evidence in this case) but a friend of mine moved into Nona's apartment not too long after the murder, not knowing it was her apartment at first, and was so happy that she got such a great deal in an apartment with fresh paint and all new flooring throughout the place. She said even the toilet was new! But, perhaps, they carpeted over the freakin' battery.:rolleyes:

[guppie]

Well, I don't know how this matches the "very important evidence overlooked by people for a few years," (silly IMO, but not COMPLETELY far fetched given the lack of protocol for evidence in this case) but a friend of mine moved into Nona's apartment not too long after the murder, not knowing it was her apartment at first, and was so happy that she got such a great deal in an apartment with fresh paint and all new flooring throughout the place. She said even the toilet was new! But, perhaps, they carpeted over the freakin' battery.:rolleyes:

i am guessing your friend moved???
sounds like that battery and back were definitely out the door in someone's pocket. i wonder if you convinced christina.

[guppie]

OMG, Lo! i just saw the link you added in regard to the eat crow comment. :D that is a scream. http://www.pete-online.us/Images/EatCrow.jpg

[christina]

this sounds more logical to me now that i ponder it. i bet all of us who have had a crazy bf who is jealous can agree that at some point in a fight he threw our phone or took the battery out so we couldn't use it. it is certainly believable that the battery was taken before the fatal blow during the course of an argument...most likely over a text received from another guy. hmm

side note to christina-how do you overlook so many things that point to kevin? no matter how i try to consider other possibilities, i can't seem to get away from the amount of things that point to him. i am trying to be as objective as possible. i swear i am!

I do not overlook things. While I agree, taking in just this thread on the murder, why you might see Jones as guilty. But I sat through the trial. I spoke with lawyers and police officers, with some witnesses as well. I listened to each piece of evidence, expert and other witness testimony.
I observed both families during the trial.
I used reason and common sense. I put myself and people close to me in the situations and thought about how they might act/react. I drove to the apartment and walked around.
The tide turned seriously for me hearing the 911 call and watching the Jones interview done the night of the murder. Previously I had read the PCS, the newspaper reports and articles with statements from the police and prosecution. I could not see how Jones could be innocent. Then during the trial the PCS was taken apart and I saw it in a different light. Many comments made by prosecutors (like how the FBI had done a profile and it fit Jones) were not supported in testimony.
While I want to give you the benefit of the doubt on your last statement guppie, (mainly because of the background you have shared)it is hard for me to as you have not just come to the thread and asked questions, but have quickly embraced questionable truths shared only by those here that see Jones as guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and have quickly joined in the revelry of bashing Jones. He is not a saint- but as my mother used to say... he who is without sin cast the first stone.

[christina]

texts that have already been sent (i.e. message from Trey) would remain on the phone...while those sent after the battery was removed will not....so its logical to me to think that Jones left the phone to show the last text from Trey, which he saw.....thinking the police would see it as the last connect that Nona had on that day....this would lead the police to Trey

That is not what either expert testified to in court.

[christina]

I thought is was stated Nona could have lived up to 30 minutes. If this is so then maybe the killer was not 100% sure she was dead and wanted to prevent this if she was to try to call by taking the battery only. Maybe Nona had attempted to get her phone during the attack and the killer took the battery out just to taunt her. So many things it could be but I can't see it being over looked by so many people. A long stick is gone, I think a battery would not be that hard to take along with it. I think a phone battery is not like a needle in a hay stack, I tend to believe someone has this. I would think when Nona's family went to retrieve Nona's things that would be one thing they would be keeping a eye out for. Plus I am sure the apartment was cleaned, I am not sure which is what I think, yes, taking the battery out would not stop her messages, etc. from showing. Taking the sim card would seem to hide more I guess. But again, maybe this killer took the battery out before Nona was actually hit with the Lamp base, like saying I have the battery, you can't call for help. I don't know that seems more to me what might have happened with all considered. I don't know Christina, just trying to go through it all, maybe it was overlooked, I just can't see that being so many was in that apartment at different times. Two eyes better than one thing I guess.

Can you give me the reference to this? I still have not found my notes!

[lorettalockhorn]

I do not overlook things. While I agree, taking in just this thread on the murder, why you might see Jones as guilty. But I sat through the trial. I spoke with lawyers and police officers, with some witnesses as well. I listened to each piece of evidence, expert and other witness testimony.
I observed both families during the trial.
I used reason and common sense. I put myself and people close to me in the situations and thought about how they might act/react. I drove to the apartment and walked around.
The tide turned seriously for me hearing the 911 call and watching the Jones interview done the night of the murder. Previously I had read the PCS, the newspaper reports and articles with statements from the police and prosecution. I could not see how Jones could be innocent. Then during the trial the PCS was taken apart and I saw it in a different light. Many comments made by prosecutors (like how the FBI had done a profile and it fit Jones) were not supported in testimony.
While I want to give you the benefit of the doubt on your last statement guppie, (mainly because of the background you have shared)it is hard for me to as you have not just come to the thread and asked questions, but have quickly embraced questionable truths shared only by those here that see Jones as guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and have quickly joined in the revelry of bashing Jones. He is not a saint- but as my mother used to say... he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Didn't you post at one time that you were withholding your opinion lest you be called as a juror, yet you were here remarking about the case soon after the Simmons/Whiteside alleged rape debacle? Sorry if I have you confused with some other poster.

And interesting about the cast the first stone comment, I was sure that Jesus said that in the Gospel John.

[christina]

HEY Christina you were at the trial, right? I was curious what presense the state police had at the trial and the case in general....I saw the female trooper testify and heard about one other trooper that testified....was there much ASP involvement? It seems logical that the new PA would contact them for assistance...unless there was a conflict...do you remember what their attitude what like at the trial? were they of the same opinion as RPD or indifferent?

Sorry I didnt repsond sooner, just saw this post. The male trooper testified he drove the distance between the Jones place and Nona's apartment on the same day of the week at the same time they think the murder occured. After he finished testifying he stayed in the courtroom and during breaks went out and spoke with police officers waiting to testify. He is the same officer that was shown on 48 hours administering the lie detector test and interrogating Jones the night of Nona's visitation.
The female trooper testified under cross that she was present at the apartment the night of the murder but was not asked to assist in the investigation. If I had my notes I could tell you if she was one who was entered on the crime scene log. I am thinking she was not. She was mainly used by the prosecution after the case was turned over to them. She was very sharp and impressed me.
Every officer except the one that left the department, Wade I think, appeared very supportive of the PCS and the prosecution.
I will be very curious to see if the new prosecutor uses anyone locally.

[christina]

Didn't you post at one time that you were withholding your opinion lest you be called as a juror, yet you were here remarking about the case soon after the Simmons/Whiteside alleged rape debacle? Sorry if I have you confused with some other poster.

And interesting about the cast the first stone comment, I was sure that Jesus said that in the Gospel John.

Your memory is correct here, I did try to keep an open mind since there was initial potential of being a member of the jury pool. And yes, it was the Courier story that led me to this site.
Lorretta, I am confident you are confused about very little :)
As for the casting the first stone comment- my mom must have plagiarized- but apparantly did so from the best!

[guppie]

I do not overlook things. While I agree, taking in just this thread on the murder, why you might see Jones as guilty. But I sat through the trial. I spoke with lawyers and police officers, with some witnesses as well. I listened to each piece of evidence, expert and other witness testimony.
I observed both families during the trial.
I used reason and common sense. I put myself and people close to me in the situations and thought about how they might act/react. I drove to the apartment and walked around.
The tide turned seriously for me hearing the 911 call and watching the Jones interview done the night of the murder. Previously I had read the PCS, the newspaper reports and articles with statements from the police and prosecution. I could not see how Jones could be innocent. Then during the trial the PCS was taken apart and I saw it in a different light. Many comments made by prosecutors (like how the FBI had done a profile and it fit Jones) were not supported in testimony.
While I want to give you the benefit of the doubt on your last statement guppie, (mainly because of the background you have shared)it is hard for me to as you have not just come to the thread and asked questions, but have quickly embraced questionable truths shared only by those here that see Jones as guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and have quickly joined in the revelry of bashing Jones. He is not a saint- but as my mother used to say... he who is without sin cast the first stone.

i don't feel i have been unduly influenced by hearsay on the thread. i watched KJ himself speak in 48 hrs and his police interrogations. i feel i based nearly all of my conclusion on what i saw from him and him alone. very little comes from this thread really. a lot of what is pointed out here are things KJ has done himself and to his own reputation...can that be considered bashing by us? bottom line, i truly believe he is guilty and because he could buy good attorneys and the police were not perfect, he walked free. i would love to change my mind and think that Nona's murderer will be apprehended and serve time. i hate that Nona lost her life and who i believe murdered her is walking free. it is not a settling thought and it keeps me up late, as you can see.

i do appreciate your objectivity.

[guppie]

Didn't you post at one time that you were withholding your opinion lest you be called as a juror, yet you were here remarking about the case soon after the Simmons/Whiteside alleged rape debacle? Sorry if I have you confused with some other poster.

And interesting about the cast the first stone comment, I was sure that Jesus said that in the Gospel John.

geez, loretta. you know your Scripture! are you like one of those ladies who is Christian and never lies? what did you say? "grammy hammy sammy?" ok, i am not bashing. that was just hilarious earlier. sorry, just laughing a minute.

[sololobo]

considering 90% of this entire thread discusses the circumstantial evidence in this case, i don't think i need to go over it for you again. very redundant. just use the search key. you say you don't see anything incriminating. are we looking at the same case? IMO helen keller cound see incriminating in this.

I assure you we are looking at the same case and I don't believe Helen Keller would agree with you.

I gleaned the following "circumstantial evidence" from subsequent posts after my post.

1. "U alive?" text message sounds weird.
2. Layman's opinion Kevin is a narcisist.
3. Red sweater he wore at a party. I assume its a Razorback sweater. At least he wasn't wearing a Hog hat.
4. Asked RW to check on her and wanted him to wait until he got there.
5. Unfortunate haircut.
6. Could not recall the exact time of his first call or number of calls.
7. Alleged voyeurism after murder.
8. Alleged DUI after murder.
9. Not responding to "cuddle muffin" message, or did he in person?
10. First reported call during a scheduled exam.
11. Yelling at girl while drunk after murder.
12. Rumor he allowed girls to call him "killer Kevin" after murder.
13. Opinion he must be boasting about killing Nona by not moving away from community.
14. Taking donations to Marva for his mother the day of the murder.
15. Only one with a motive?
16. He makes an arse of himself in public after the murder.
17. Impression of him after watching 48 Hours.
18. Alleged crime of passion.

I'm sure there is more along the lines of the above but nothing to make Helen Keller believe Kevin is quilty.

[guppie]

I assure you we are looking at the same case and I don't believe Helen Keller would agree with you.

I gleaned the following "circumstantial evidence" from subsequent posts after my post.

1. "U alive?" text message sounds weird.
2. Layman's opinion Kevin is a narcisist.
3. Red sweater he wore at a party. I assume its a Razorback sweater. At least he wasn't wearing a Hog hat.
4. Asked RW to check on her and wanted him to wait until he got there.
5. Unfortunate haircut.
6. Could not recall the exact time of his first call or number of calls.
7. Alleged voyeurism after murder.
8. Alleged DUI after murder.
9. Not responding to "cuddle muffin" message, or did he in person?
10. First reported call during a scheduled exam.
11. Yelling at girl while drunk after murder.
12. Rumor he allowed girls to call him "killer Kevin" after murder.
13. Opinion he must be boasting about killing Nona by not moving away from community.
14. Taking donations to Marva for his mother the day of the murder.
15. Only one with a motive?
16. He makes an arse of himself in public after the murder.
17. Impression of him after watching 48 Hours.
18. Alleged crime of passion.

I'm sure there is more along the lines of the above but nothing to make Helen Keller believe Kevin is quilty.


that was funny, solo! i love a laugh with my morning coffee. actually, to be fair, you could be right about helen keller.

[TJEddie]

I do not overlook things. While I agree, taking in just this thread on the murder, why you might see Jones as guilty. But I sat through the trial. I spoke with lawyers and police officers, with some witnesses as well. I listened to each piece of evidence, expert and other witness testimony.
I observed both families during the trial.
I used reason and common sense. I put myself and people close to me in the situations and thought about how they might act/react. I drove to the apartment and walked around.
The tide turned seriously for me hearing the 911 call and watching the Jones interview done the night of the murder. Previously I had read the PCS, the newspaper reports and articles with statements from the police and prosecution. I could not see how Jones could be innocent. Then during the trial the PCS was taken apart and I saw it in a different light. Many comments made by prosecutors (like how the FBI had done a profile and it fit Jones) were not supported in testimony.
While I want to give you the benefit of the doubt on your last statement guppie, (mainly because of the background you have shared)it is hard for me to as you have not just come to the thread and asked questions, but have quickly embraced questionable truths shared only by those here that see Jones as guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, and have quickly joined in the revelry of bashing Jones. He is not a saint- but as my mother used to say... he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Excellent post, Christina. Thank you.

[TJEddie]

I assure you we are looking at the same case and I don't believe Helen Keller would agree with you.

I gleaned the following "circumstantial evidence" from subsequent posts after my post.

1. "U alive?" text message sounds weird.
2. Layman's opinion Kevin is a narcisist.
3. Red sweater he wore at a party. I assume its a Razorback sweater. At least he wasn't wearing a Hog hat.
4. Asked RW to check on her and wanted him to wait until he got there.
5. Unfortunate haircut.
6. Could not recall the exact time of his first call or number of calls.
7. Alleged voyeurism after murder.
8. Alleged DUI after murder.
9. Not responding to "cuddle muffin" message, or did he in person?
10. First reported call during a scheduled exam.
11. Yelling at girl while drunk after murder.
12. Rumor he allowed girls to call him "killer Kevin" after murder.
13. Opinion he must be boasting about killing Nona by not moving away from community.
14. Taking donations to Marva for his mother the day of the murder.
15. Only one with a motive?
16. He makes an arse of himself in public after the murder.
17. Impression of him after watching 48 Hours.
18. Alleged crime of passion.

I'm sure there is more along the lines of the above but nothing to make Helen Keller believe Kevin is quilty.

solo, I always look forward to reading your posts. This one is a keeper.

[guppie]

Excellent post, Christina. Thank you.

while i embrace christina's ability to write a good post and have a convincing argument, she is very incorrect that i base my opinion on something i saw on this thread. this thread has only somewhat strengthened the opinion i already had. i don't base things on hearsay, rumors, public intox, red sweaters, or whatever.
kevin jones spoke for himself, and he shoulda taken the fifth in that interview! looking forward to the self-incrimation on Dateline. it's a good thing for him that he didn't testify in court.

lets' let KJ do the talking:

"I knew I was going to marry her. There wasn’t a question about it to me," he (Kevin Jones) says.

"How'd you know?" (Richard) Schlesinger asks.

"I don't know. I didn't see it any other way," Kevin says.

[lorettalockhorn]

Your memory is correct here, I did try to keep an open mind since there was initial potential of being a member of the jury pool. And yes, it was the Courier story that led me to this site.
Lorretta, I am confident you are confused about very little :)
As for the casting the first stone comment- my mom must have plagiarized- but apparantly did so from the best!


Still completely confuzzled as to how a person can be all over a thread about a case and still serve as a juror. :shrug: Still slightly amused that because you didn't miss a nanosecond of testimony or a single gesture of body language you seem to have appointed yourself as the 13th juror.

[lorettalockhorn]

I assure you we are looking at the same case and I don't believe Helen Keller would agree with you.

I gleaned the following "circumstantial evidence" from subsequent posts after my post.

1. "U alive?" text message sounds weird.
2. Layman's opinion Kevin is a narcisist.
3. Red sweater he wore at a party. I assume its a Razorback sweater. At least he wasn't wearing a Hog hat.
4. Asked RW to check on her and wanted him to wait until he got there.
5. Unfortunate haircut.
6. Could not recall the exact time of his first call or number of calls.
7. Alleged voyeurism after murder.
8. Alleged DUI after murder.
9. Not responding to "cuddle muffin" message, or did he in person?
10. First reported call during a scheduled exam.
11. Yelling at girl while drunk after murder.
12. Rumor he allowed girls to call him "killer Kevin" after murder.
13. Opinion he must be boasting about killing Nona by not moving away from community.
14. Taking donations to Marva for his mother the day of the murder.
15. Only one with a motive?
16. He makes an arse of himself in public after the murder.
17. Impression of him after watching 48 Hours.
18. Alleged crime of passion.

I'm sure there is more along the lines of the above but nothing to make Helen Keller believe Kevin is quilty.

Love your sense of humor here! :seeya:

[guppie]

Just a few more quotes:
"It went down because she’s seeing other guys," Frost said.
"No, I didn’t," Kevin said.
"You do know you found out, and there was an altercation," Frost said.
"I never found out. I had no idea," Kevin insisted.

Now this was much more about body language than verbal, so you would have to view it:
"Did you see the condom wrapper in the kitchen?" an investigator asked Kevin.
"No… So there was one? Then she was raped!" Kevin said. (as he leans back in the chair and puts his hands behind his head)

Here's one more that I find very telling:
"Check everything! Check Everything!" - Kevin Jones

[hawgustusgloop]

Still completely confuzzled as to how a person can be all over a thread about a case and still serve as a juror. :shrug: Still slightly amused that because you didn't miss a nanosecond of testimony or a single gesture of body language you seem to have appointed yourself as the 13th juror.

Aside from the posting on this thread, this same person claimed to be close friends with the parents of a key witness in the case. Surely that would prevent someone from being selected as a juror, wouldn't it?

[lorettalockhorn]

Aside from the posting on this thread, this same person claimed to be close friends with the parents of a key witness in the case. Surely that would prevent someone from being selected as a juror, wouldn't it?


Speaking of parents and key witnesses, the cynic in me cannot help but think that there are people who want very badly for Kevin to be completely exonerated, not just to find justice for Nona, but to somehow clear the names of their own children who have been alluded to as "guilty by association". Speaking of the alleged rapists here. Hella lotta people seem to have a dog in this fight.

[lorettalockhorn]

I assure you we are looking at the same case and I don't believe Helen Keller would agree with you.

I gleaned the following "circumstantial evidence" from subsequent posts after my post.

8. Alleged DUI after murder.
11. Yelling at girl while drunk after murder.

I am somewhat curious as to whether or not you really think the DUI was alleged. Part of the arrest report was posted here. Do you think that RPD faked it?

[christina]

Still completely confuzzled as to how a person can be all over a thread about a case and still serve as a juror. :shrug: Still slightly amused that because you didn't miss a nanosecond of testimony or a single gesture of body language you seem to have appointed yourself as the 13th juror.

Didn't you also have the potential of being in the jury pool? What would you have done/said had you been called about this case?

I was not appointing myself as anything but rather answering guppie's question. You were there for part of the trial yourself, weren't you?
As for missing something-I did have to use the restroom and of course use the laptop to post here. But as always- glad I could amuse you :)

[guppie]

Speaking of parents and key witnesses, the cynic in me cannot help but think that there are people who want very badly for Kevin to be completely exonerated, not just to find justice for Nona, but to somehow clear the names of their own children who have been alluded to as "guilty by association". Speaking of the alleged rapists here. Hella lotta people seem to have a dog in this fight.


good phrase..."guilty by assoc"
yes, 48 hrs even went on the "justice for kevin" tangent. hello! the victim here is Nona.
and yes, i bet parents of KJ's buddies would love for him to be "completely exonerated" so it would ease their minds about their kids partying with him. i am asking myself how i would feel if my child was seen at parties having drinks with someone thought to be a murderer. the answer...i would not want my child to look bad, and therefore, would want KJ's name cleared to make myself feel better.

[hawgustusgloop]

Speaking of parents and key witnesses, the cynic in me cannot help but think that there are people who want very badly for Kevin to be completely exonerated, not just to find justice for Nona, but to somehow clear the names of their own children who have been alluded to as "guilty by association". Speaking of the alleged rapists here. Hella lotta people seem to have a dog in this fight.

No kidding about the Mother FOKers Club. Didn't Patti Whiteside say something ridiculous to Nona's stepfather, like "you got away with it" or something at the trial? Give me a break on that lawsuit as well. And don't even get me started on the Simmons family and their letter to the editor of the Courier....I mean, HELLO, your son admitted to having sex with an underage drunk girl while his buddies watched! It's not like the allegations were that outrageous, given the circumstances. It's not like the whole thing was a fabrication, and Jeff was at church praying during the time the incident occurred. Why do these people refuse to see their children as anything but victims?

[christina]

Speaking of parents and key witnesses, the cynic in me cannot help but think that there are people who want very badly for Kevin to be completely exonerated, not just to find justice for Nona, but to somehow clear the names of their own children who have been alluded to as "guilty by association". Speaking of the alleged rapists here. Hella lotta people seem to have a dog in this fight.

On the flip side-wouldnt you also agree that there are those that see justice for Nona is only accomplished if Jones is guilty?

[guppie]

No kidding about the Mother FOKers Club. Didn't Patti Whiteside say something ridiculous to Nona's stepfather, like "you got away with it" or something at the trial? Give me a break on that lawsuit as well. And don't even get me started on the Simmons family and their letter to the editor of the Courier....I mean, HELLO, your son admitted to having sex with an underage drunk girl while his buddies watched! It's not like the allegations were that outrageous, given the circumstances. It's not like the whole thing was a fabrication, and Jeff was at church praying during the time the incident occurred. Why do these people refuse to see their children as anything but victims?

ok, to use a stupid saying that applies here: "DENIAL ain't a river in Egypt."

[CSOKC]

On the flip side-wouldnt you also agree that there are those that see justice for Nona is only accomplished if Jones is guilty?
I don't think so. I think that most people that believe Kevin is guilty secretly hope that he is not, just so the real killer could be brought to trial and punished. Jones has already been determined as not guilty, so I don't even see how Nona would be getting justice if Jones is guilty.

[guppie]

On the flip side-wouldnt you also agree that there are those that see justice for Nona is only accomplished if Jones is guilty?

most people will agree that justice for Nona is served if her killer is behind bars, whether it be KJ or someone else.

like i said, if i am wrong, i will eat crow and buy KJ a beer. i have been wrong before. i am not a perfect Christian. they don't have those where i'm from.

[lorettalockhorn]

Didn't you also have the potential of being in the jury pool? What would you have done/said had you been called about this case?

I was not appointing myself as anything but rather answering guppie's question. You were there for part of the trial yourself, weren't you?
As for missing something-I did have to use the restroom and of course use the laptop to post here. But as always- glad I could amuse you :)

Sure, I'm a registered voter. But I would have had to tell the truth and say that I had read about the case and had a relatively strong opinion that KJ was guilty. Would you have lied to get on the jury? Didn't you say that you were sure that he was guilty before you changed your mind after the first day of testimony? Of course, it's possilbe that the nurse juror lied about his niece's relationship to RW, so anything is possible. I don't have to stress that your own honesty has been in question here.

No, I didn't attend any of the trial. And I'm amused that you think that I find you amusing.

On the flip side-wouldnt you also agree that there are those that see justice for Nona is only accomplished if Jones is guilty?

I don't know a single person in The Real World who doesn't want Nona's killer brought to justice, regardless of who he is. And since Kevin cannot be retried, justice can only be served on this earth if the killer is someone else. And I don't know a single person in The Real World who thinks that KJ is innocent. (That I've discussed the case with.)

[hawgustusgloop]

I don't think so. I think that most people that believe Kevin is guilty secretly hope that he is not, just so the real killer could be brought to trial and punished. Jones has already been determined as not guilty, so I don't even see how Nona would be getting justice if Jones is guilty.

I agree with you. I personally think it is worse to think Nona was murdered by someone she loved and trusted.

[guppie]

I don't think so. I think that most people that believe Kevin is guilty secretly hope that he is not, just so the real killer could be brought to trial and punished. Jones has already been determined as not guilty, so I don't even see how Nona would be getting justice if Jones is guilty.

CSOKC, you always put it so well. it would be a huge sigh of relief if it could be proven someone else killed Nona because who wants to believe that her bf of many yrs did this? and if KJ did it, there is not justice for her unless he suffers more being outside prison than he would in prison. since he is not in prison and i think he did kill Nona, it haunts me that he could do it again. i just truly hope that someone else doesn't have their life taken if in fact this jury let a murderer walk free.

[WonderWoman]

I assure you we are looking at the same case and I don't believe Helen Keller would agree with you.

I gleaned the following "circumstantial evidence" from subsequent posts after my post.

1. "U alive?" text message sounds weird.
2. Layman's opinion Kevin is a narcisist.
3. Red sweater he wore at a party. I assume its a Razorback sweater. At least he wasn't wearing a Hog hat.
4. Asked RW to check on her and wanted him to wait until he got there.
5. Unfortunate haircut.
6. Could not recall the exact time of his first call or number of calls.
7. Alleged voyeurism after murder.
8. Alleged DUI after murder.
9. Not responding to "cuddle muffin" message, or did he in person?
10. First reported call during a scheduled exam.
11. Yelling at girl while drunk after murder.
12. Rumor he allowed girls to call him "killer Kevin" after murder.
13. Opinion he must be boasting about killing Nona by not moving away from community.
14. Taking donations to Marva for his mother the day of the murder.
15. Only one with a motive?
16. He makes an arse of himself in public after the murder.
17. Impression of him after watching 48 Hours.
18. Alleged crime of passion.

I'm sure there is more along the lines of the above but nothing to make Helen Keller believe Kevin is quilty.


Maybe I am a little confused, what is the big deal about the red sweater that Kevin has on?:shrug:

[jonikay]

No kidding about the Mother FOKers Club. Didn't Patti Whiteside say something ridiculous to Nona's stepfather, like "you got away with it" or something at the trial? Give me a break on that lawsuit as well. And don't even get me started on the Simmons family and their letter to the editor of the Courier....I mean, HELLO, your son admitted to having sex with an underage drunk girl while his buddies watched! It's not like the allegations were that outrageous, given the circumstances. It's not like the whole thing was a fabrication, and Jeff was at church praying during the time the incident occurred. Why do these people refuse to see their children as anything but victims?
Correction: Duane Dipert said something along those lines to Kevin. I believe it was Ms. Whiteside who yelled at DD at that point.

[jonikay]

Maybe I am a little confused, what is the big deal about the red sweater that Kevin has on?:shrug:
haha!!! i do agree with you about the sweater!!

Haha! I love how yall hate on the sweater!! But I agree with you! I just hope that something comes out of this new evidence!:)

You tell me!

[WonderWoman]

You tell me!

I think that it is ugly!! But I am not making such a big deal out of it like others.......:cuss:

[optimumprimal78]

Ok so I was just doing a random internet search trying to see if there were any new stories about the evidence and of all things Nona's name is on a wikipedia site for missing women :confused:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

But yet nothing else is said about her on that site at all.

BTW, I didn't know that she was ever considered missing.

[tiggergreen]

kevin should learn one word: accountability
he does things that clearly worsen what people think of him and then doesn't want anyone to talk about these things?!

sex parties, yep "NASTY!" but we are not nasty bringing it up, he is nasty to have been there and in the room too! what the heck was he doing watching people have sex (rape or not, won't go there)? it's VERY disturbing. drinking/partying is not out-of-the-ordinary for a college-aged guy. i am objective on that, but KJ has crossed to the line to abnormal...that incident in particular. screaming at a girl on the street while drunk looks bad too when your gf is dead and people think you did it. college kids do get public intox occasionally. that i can chalk up. but the part about yelling at the girl looks very bad for him. he digs his own hole deeper and deeper.
and you want us to feel sorry for him?

What world are you living in? When I was in the army (Hanau, Germany), I was attempting to get ready to go to church and the guys in my room were watching a porn movie. I asked them if they could possibly turn it off for about ten minutes while I got ready and they refused. So I had to listen to fake screams while I dressed. Today, you can go to rated R movies and they portray sex on the screen - we have become a nation of voyeurs.

I find nothing different between Kevin watching someone have sex and going to say 9 1/2 weeks... Personally, I want this kind of trash outlawed (magazines, movies, etc). But we live in a very imperfect world.

I watched 48 hours and by the end of the show was pretty sure that Kevin was innocent, but they left out too many details, so I ended up on this forum and spent several days wading through posts.

I especially enjoyed the posts from christine and her portrayal of the trial. It was after this that I decided that Kevin was indeed innocent.

Also, in this country, you are "innocent until proven guilty" - so yes, Kevin is innocent because his trial ended up with a "not guilty" verdict.

He does not have a motive. This crime scene tells me that another jealous boyfriend did this because she didn't want to have a relationship with him.

That is a motive. Please enlighten me on how Kevin has a motive?

Brent

[WonderWoman]

What world are you living in? When I was in the army (Hanau, Germany), I was attempting to get ready to go to church and the guys in my room were watching a porn movie. I asked them if they could possibly turn it off for about ten minutes while I got ready and they refused. So I had to listen to fake screams while I dressed. Today, you can go to rated R movies and they portray sex on the screen - we have become a nation of voyeurs.

I find nothing different between Kevin watching someone have sex and going to say 9 1/2 weeks... Personally, I want this kind of trash outlawed (magazines, movies, etc). But we live in a very imperfect world.

I watched 48 hours and by the end of the show was pretty sure that Kevin was innocent, but they left out too many details, so I ended up on this forum and spent several days wading through posts.

I especially enjoyed the posts from christine and her portrayal of the trial. It was after this that I decided that Kevin was indeed innocent.

Also, in this country, you are "innocent until proven guilty" - so yes, Kevin is innocent because his trial ended up with a "not guilty" verdict.

He does not have a motive. This crime scene tells me that another jealous boyfriend did this because she didn't want to have a relationship with him.

That is a motive. Please enlighten me on how Kevin has a motive?

Brent

You are good!!! :)

[CSOKC]

What world are you living in? When I was in the army (Hanau, Germany), I was attempting to get ready to go to church and the guys in my room were watching a porn movie. I asked them if they could possibly turn it off for about ten minutes while I got ready and they refused. So I had to listen to fake screams while I dressed. Today, you can go to rated R movies and they portray sex on the screen - we have become a nation of voyeurs.

I find nothing different between Kevin watching someone have sex and going to say 9 1/2 weeks... Personally, I want this kind of trash outlawed (magazines, movies, etc). But we live in a very imperfect world.

I watched 48 hours and by the end of the show was pretty sure that Kevin was innocent, but they left out too many details, so I ended up on this forum and spent several days wading through posts.

I especially enjoyed the posts from christine and her portrayal of the trial. It was after this that I decided that Kevin was indeed innocent.

Also, in this country, you are "innocent until proven guilty" - so yes, Kevin is innocent because his trial ended up with a "not guilty" verdict.

He does not have a motive. This crime scene tells me that another jealous boyfriend did this because she didn't want to have a relationship with him.

That is a motive. Please enlighten me on how Kevin has a motive?

Brent
Maybe the fact that Nona was moving on from her 5 year relationship with him? That seems like a pretty good motive coming from a jealous boyfriend to me. Especially since he seems to think they were going to get married.

[lorettalockhorn]

Ok so I was just doing a random internet search trying to see if there were any new stories about the evidence and of all things Nona's name is on a wikipedia site for missing women :confused:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

But yet nothing else is said about her on that site at all.

BTW, I didn't know that she was ever considered missing.

I saw that a while back and wondered WTF? No wonder I stay away from that place; it's go to be one of the single worse sources of information on the internet.

[hawgustusgloop]

Correction: Duane Dipert said something along those lines to Kevin. I believe it was Ms. Whiteside who yelled at DD at that point.

Do you know exactly what she said? Wasn't it something like, "looks like YOU got away with it," or something? I always thought that made her look like a crazy crazy.

[hawgustusgloop]

What world are you living in? When I was in the army (Hanau, Germany), I was attempting to get ready to go to church and the guys in my room were watching a porn movie. I asked them if they could possibly turn it off for about ten minutes while I got ready and they refused. So I had to listen to fake screams while I dressed. Today, you can go to rated R movies and they portray sex on the screen - we have become a nation of voyeurs.

I find nothing different between Kevin watching someone have sex and going to say 9 1/2 weeks... Personally, I want this kind of trash outlawed (magazines, movies, etc). But we live in a very imperfect world.

I watched 48 hours and by the end of the show was pretty sure that Kevin was innocent, but they left out too many details, so I ended up on this forum and spent several days wading through posts.

I especially enjoyed the posts from christine and her portrayal of the trial. It was after this that I decided that Kevin was indeed innocent.

Also, in this country, you are "innocent until proven guilty" - so yes, Kevin is innocent because his trial ended up with a "not guilty" verdict.

He does not have a motive. This crime scene tells me that another jealous boyfriend did this because she didn't want to have a relationship with him.

That is a motive. Please enlighten me on how Kevin has a motive?

Brent

Dear Brent,

I am not being at all sarcastic when I say that I truly enjoy your posts.

Sincerely,
hawgustusgloop

[optimumprimal78]

I saw that a while back and wondered WTF? No wonder I stay away from that place; it's go to be one of the single worse sources of information on the internet.

Yeah I agree that it is terrible as far as information but I always thought that there should be some sort of page for Nona. I would do it but I don't have all the information kept like some on this board do.

[lorettalockhorn]

What world are you living in? When I was in the army (Hanau, Germany), I was attempting to get ready to go to church and the guys in my room were watching a porn movie. I asked them if they could possibly turn it off for about ten minutes while I got ready and they refused. So I had to listen to fake screams while I dressed. Today, you can go to rated R movies and they portray sex on the screen - we have become a nation of voyeurs.

I find nothing different between Kevin watching someone have sex and going to say 9 1/2 weeks... Personally, I want this kind of trash outlawed (magazines, movies, etc). But we live in a very imperfect world.

I watched 48 hours and by the end of the show was pretty sure that Kevin was innocent, but they left out too many details, so I ended up on this forum and spent several days wading through posts.

I especially enjoyed the posts from christine and her portrayal of the trial. It was after this that I decided that Kevin was indeed innocent.

Also, in this country, you are "innocent until proven guilty" - so yes, Kevin is innocent because his trial ended up with a "not guilty" verdict.

He does not have a motive. This crime scene tells me that another jealous boyfriend did this because she didn't want to have a relationship with him.

That is a motive. Please enlighten me on how Kevin has a motive?

Brent

Sheesh, it's one thing to watch people pretending to have sex on the screen and being in the same space as flying body fluids.

Interesting that out of the people who were in the courtroom and reported here, that you have aligned yourself with the one who has proven herself to be a liar.

You must be linguistically naive if you believe that innocent and not guilty have the same meaning. 48 Hours made a lousy presentation IMO, due to several misconceptions which they aired as truth, but there are plenty of people who will agree despite the disparity in their sources of information, that the prosecution possibly didn't argue the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

[FDInLaw]

Correction: Duane Dipert said something along those lines to Kevin. I believe it was Ms. Whiteside who yelled at DD at that point.
Yep. Something like:

Duane Dipert: "Well Kevin, it looks like you got away with it!"

Ms. Whiteside: "No, maybe YOU got away with it!!!" :cuss:


Is that about right? I wasn't there.

[tiggergreen]

Maybe the fact that Nona was moving on from her 5 year relationship with him? That seems like a pretty good motive coming from a jealous boyfriend to me. Especially since he seems to think they were going to get married.

Where is the evidence of that? She texted him to say that she loved him that very morning. Please show me evidence to the contrary.

I have to agree with sololobo that there is only one piece of evidence that everything hinges on - the bloody palm print on a light bulb. That is not enough to convict him criminally or civilly.

I would have done the same thing - I would have immediately tried everything in my power to rescuscitate my girlfriend, getting blood all over my face and hands. At that point I would not be concerned about incriminating myself.

The big clincher to me though, is that the person that did this would have to have done some damage to his hand and Kevin's hand had none.

The real killer is still out there - I just wish they would have tested the blood on all the different surfaces for dna...

All statements are, of course, in my lowly opinion.

Brent

[tiggergreen]

Sheesh, it's one thing to watch people pretending to have sex on the screen and being in the same space as flying body fluids.

Interesting that out of the people who were in the courtroom and reported here, that you have aligned yourself with the one who has proven herself to be a liar.

You must be linguistically naive if you believe that innocent and not guilty have the same meaning. 48 Hours made a lousy presentation IMO, due to several misconceptions which they aired as truth, but there are plenty of people who will agree despite the disparity in their sources of information, that the prosecution possibly didn't argue the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

No, I am not naive - if you understand this nation and our rights, you know the statement "Innocent until proven guilty" is just one of the tenets that makes this nation so great.

Unless you get a guilty verdict, you are indeed innocent - no matter what yours or anyone else's opinion may be.

Kevin is innocent according to the law - he is guilty according to your opinion.

I'm sorry - I must have missed something - can someone please explain how christine is a liar?

Brent

[FDInLaw]

Where is the evidence of that? She texted him to say that she loved him that very morning. Please show me evidence to the contrary.

I have to agree with sololobo that there is only one piece of evidence that everything hinges on - the bloody palm print on a light bulb. That is not enough to convict him criminally or civilly.

I would have done the same thing - I would have immediately tried everything in my power to rescuscitate my girlfriend, getting blood all over my face and hands. At that point I would not be concerned about incriminating myself.

The big clincher to me though, is that the person that did this would have to have done some damage to his hand and Kevin's hand had none.

The real killer is still out there - I just wish they would have tested the blood on all the different surfaces for dna...

All statements are, of course, in my lowly opinion.

BrentCheck the source for the emails between Nona and other guys. . . they didn't come from her computer but from the computer Kevin had loaned her. . . think about it! KEVIN retrieved them IIRC. It is very likely that Kevin knew about Nona's relationships BEFORE the murder. That is motive.

[lorettalockhorn]

Where is the evidence of that? She texted him to say that she loved him that very morning. Please show me evidence to the contrary.

I have to agree with sololobo that there is only one piece of evidence that everything hinges on - the bloody palm print on a light bulb. That is not enough to convict him criminally or civilly.

I would have done the same thing - I would have immediately tried everything in my power to rescuscitate my girlfriend, getting blood all over my face and hands. At that point I would not be concerned about incriminating myself.

The big clincher to me though, is that the person that did this would have to have done some damage to his hand and Kevin's hand had none.

The real killer is still out there - I just wish they would have tested the blood on all the different surfaces for dna...

All statements are, of course, in my lowly opinion.

Brent

I think the problem that people have with Kevin supposedly trying to resuscitate(sp?) Nona is that he told the 911 operator that he thought she was dead. And indeed it should have been obvious.

Why would we expect the killer to have some damage to his hands? Did I miss something?

Agree that the forensics in the apartment should have been more complete. As should there have been forensics on KJ's vehicle and more information about his cellphone.

[FDInLaw]

No, I am not naive - if you understand this nation and our rights, you know the statement "Innocent until proven guilty" is just one of the tenets that makes this nation so great.

Unless you get a guilty verdict, you are indeed innocent - no matter what yours or anyone else's opinion may be.

Kevin is innocent according to the law - he is guilty according to your opinion.

I'm sorry - I must have missed something - can someone please explain how christine is a liar?

Brent
So, in la la land does the murder victim come back to life? Someone killed Nona, and despite the verdict it is still possible that Kevin is guilty. :cool:

[christina]

Yep. Something like:

Duane Dipert: "Well Kevin, it looks like you got away with it!"

Ms. Whiteside: "No, maybe YOU got away with it!!!" :cuss:


Is that about right? I wasn't there.

During the 48 Hours I leaned forward to the screen trying to hear that exchange? In the courtroom there was lots of movement and like on the 48 Hours tape, it was easier to hear what Mr Dipert said simply because he was louder. I think you are right about the order and the words said.
They both made the same basic point in my opinion and looked equally as emotional. The difference being Ms Whiteside said maybe?

[hawgustusgloop]

The big clincher to me though, is that the person that did this would have to have done some damage to his hand and Kevin's hand had none.


Although I don't think the killer would have to have visible injuries to his hand....

It would be quite difficult to see the possible damage on Kevin's hands, after he smeared blood on them and beat the heck outta the back of that chair. I wonder if attacking that chair did any damage to his hand?

[lorettalockhorn]

No, I am not naive - if you understand this nation and our rights, you know the statement "Innocent until proven guilty" is just one of the tenets that makes this nation so great.

Unless you get a guilty verdict, you are indeed innocent - no matter what yours or anyone else's opinion may be.

Kevin is innocent according to the law - he is guilty according to your opinion.

I'm sorry - I must have missed something - can someone please explain how christine is a liar?

Brent

Sorry, but I disagree. Kevin is not guilty in the eyes of the law. The verdict was not "innocent".

Christina at one time claimed that she didn't know Nona and/or her family, then later claimed that she did. Not exactly sure which of those statements is the truth and which is the lie. At any rate, that makes her entire body of posts suspect to me.

[christina]

So, in la la land does the murder victim come back to life? Someone killed Nona, and despite the verdict it is still possible that Kevin is guilty. :cool:

Possible, yes.
Will you give me that it is also possible that Jones is innocent?

[hawgustusgloop]

No, I am not naive - if you understand this nation and our rights, you know the statement "Innocent until proven guilty" is just one of the tenets that makes this nation so great.

Unless you get a guilty verdict, you are indeed innocent - no matter what yours or anyone else's opinion may be.

Kevin is innocent according to the law - he is guilty according to your opinion.

I'm sorry - I must have missed something - can someone please explain how christine is a liar?

Brent

Dude....if you indeed committed a crime, you are guilty of that crime, regardless of court proceedings or anyone's opinion.

[christina]

Sorry, but I disagree. Kevin is not guilty in the eyes of the law. The verdict was not "innocent".

Christina at one time claimed that she didn't know Nona and/or her family, then later claimed that she did. Not exactly sure which of those statements is the truth and which is the lie. At any rate, that makes her entire body of posts suspect to me.

I understand why you would say this. But it makes your compliments to and thanking me for attending and reporting on the trial suspect.

But Lorretta, surely you and I can agree for all of our different opinions and interpretations, that this isn't about you and me, it isn't about tearing up Jones, it isnt about gossip of Jones and his family members, but this is about justice for Nona and discussing the facts of the case, right?

[tiggergreen]

Sorry, but I disagree. Kevin is not guilty in the eyes of the law. The verdict was not "innocent".

Christina at one time claimed that she didn't know Nona and/or her family, then later claimed that she did. Not exactly sure which of those statements is the truth and which is the lie. At any rate, that makes her entire body of posts suspect to me.

I am very sorry, but I feel that you do not quite understand our court system - from wikipedia:

The presumption of innocence — being innocent until proven guilty — is a legal right that the accused in criminal trials has in many modern nations. It states that no person shall be considered guilty until finally convicted by a court. The burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which has to convince the court that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In case of remaining doubts, the accused is to be acquitted; this idea expressed by the Latin legal maxim "In dubio pro reo".

This duty on the prosecution was famously referred to as the 'golden thread' in the criminal law by Lord Sankey LC in Woolmington v DPP [1935] AC 462:

Throughout the web of the English criminal law one golden thread is always to be seen - that it is the duty of the prosecution to prove the prisoner's guilt subject to what I have already said as to the defence of insanity and subject also to any statutory exception...

In principle, the defense does not have to 'prove' anything. However, the defense may present evidence tending to show that there is a doubt as to the guilt of the accused.

Conversely, in many authoritarian regimes the prosecution case is, in practice, believed by default unless the accused can prove they are innocent, a practice called presumption of guilt. Many people believe that presumption of guilt is unfair and even immoral because it allows the strategic targeting of any individual, since it's often difficult to establish firm proof of innocence (for example, it's often impossible to establish an alibi if the person is home alone at the time of the crime).

In many countries belonging to the Anglo-Saxon legal tradition, the Principle of Presumption of Innocence is phrased such that "the accused is presumed to be innocent until it has been declared guilty by a court".

End Quote...

Kevin is innocent until proven guilty - he has not been found guilty, therefore he is innocent.

Brent

[FDInLaw]

Possible, yes.
Will you give me that it is also possible that Jones is innocent?Absolutely. If Kevin is innocent I hope that LE can establish it this time around.

[FDInLaw]

I am very sorry, but I feel that you do not quite understand our court system - from wikipedia:

The presumption of innocence — being innocent until proven guilty — is a legal right that the accused in criminal trials has in many modern nations. It states that no person shall be considered guilty until finally convicted by a court. The burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which has to convince the court that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In case of remaining doubts, the accused is to be acquitted; this idea expressed by the Latin legal maxim "In dubio pro reo".

This duty on the prosecution was famously referred to as the 'golden thread' in the criminal law by Lord Sankey LC in Woolmington v DPP [1935] AC 462:

Throughout the web of the English criminal law one golden thread is always to be seen - that it is the duty of the prosecution to prove the prisoner's guilt subject to what I have already said as to the defence of insanity and subject also to any statutory exception...

In principle, the defense does not have to 'prove' anything. However, the defense may present evidence tending to show that there is a doubt as to the guilt of the accused.

Conversely, in many authoritarian regimes the prosecution case is, in practice, believed by default unless the accused can prove they are innocent, a practice called presumption of guilt. Many people believe that presumption of guilt is unfair and even immoral because it allows the strategic targeting of any individual, since it's often difficult to establish firm proof of innocence (for example, it's often impossible to establish an alibi if the person is home alone at the time of the crime).

In many countries belonging to the Anglo-Saxon legal tradition, the Principle of Presumption of Innocence is phrased such that "the accused is presumed to be innocent until it has been declared guilty by a court".

End Quote...

Kevin is innocent until proven guilty - he has not been found guilty, therefore he is innocent.

Brent
BUT. . . he still may have killed Nona. . . it's a hard one, but do try to wrap your head around it. :patriot:

[tiggergreen]

Although I don't think the killer would have to have visible injuries to his hand....

It would be quite difficult to see the possible damage on Kevin's hands, after he smeared blood on them and beat the heck outta the back of that chair. I wonder if attacking that chair did any damage to his hand?

He had no visible injuries to his hands. The brusing on Nona's face would have caused blood vessels to burst in the hand (at the very least). It also could have caused small cracks to appear near the knuckles. Kevin's open hand could not have caused the bruising that was present. It would have been done by a closed fist.

Attacking the chair would have done nothing as it was a padded chair and he used his open hand.

All my opinon, of course... I have not yet received my honorary degree from the police academy for some reason... :rolleyes:

Brent

[tiggergreen]

BUT. . . he still may have killed Nona. . . it's a hard one, but do try to wrap your head around it. :patriot:

Of course - anything is possible. I was just stating that according to the law, Kevin is innocent.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Besides, if everyone had the same opinion, this board just wouldn't be the same.

Thanks,

Brent

[christina]

Check the source for the emails between Nona and other guys. . . they didn't come from her computer but from the computer Kevin had loaned her. . . think about it! KEVIN retrieved them IIRC. It is very likely that Kevin knew about Nona's relationships BEFORE the murder. That is motive.

Jones loaned her the computer in her apartment? I wish I could find my notes!?! Was that in a Courier article?

[hawgustusgloop]

He had no visible injuries to his hands. The brusing on Nona's face would have caused blood vessels to burst in the hand (at the very least). It also could have caused small cracks to appear near the knuckles. Kevin's open hand could not have caused the bruising that was present. It would have been done by a closed fist.

Attacking the chair would have done nothing as it was a padded chair and he used his open hand.

All my opinon, of course... I have not yet received my honorary degree from the police academy for some reason... :rolleyes:

Brent

Wow, you seem to have a lot of information.

[LurkerNoMore]

Interesting that out of the people who were in the courtroom and reported here, that you have aligned yourself with the one who has proven herself to be a liar.

Loretta - A question for you - when Kevin is vindicated and when another individual is arrested and convicted, will you post an apology here? Will you be able to live with yourself after all the horrible things you've said about Kevin and his family, the unnecessarily hurtful and judgmental things? Will you have bumper stickers produced that say "I WAS WRONG!"?

[jonikay]

Where is the evidence of that? She texted him to say that she loved him that very morning. Please show me evidence to the contrary.

I have to agree with sololobo that there is only one piece of evidence that everything hinges on - the bloody palm print on a light bulb. That is not enough to convict him criminally or civilly.

I would have done the same thing - I would have immediately tried everything in my power to rescuscitate my girlfriend, getting blood all over my face and hands. At that point I would not be concerned about incriminating myself.

The big clincher to me though, is that the person that did this would have to have done some damage to his hand and Kevin's hand had none.

The real killer is still out there - I just wish they would have tested the blood on all the different surfaces for dna...

All statements are, of course, in my lowly opinion.

Brent
If we want to take all texts to and from Nona literally, he texted her around 430 that afternoon with "u alive." Taken literally, this is a question which makes one wonder why in the world he thought she could have been dead since she was supposed to be wrapped up in finals throughout the day anyway. During this time, she would have been finishing up a final and getting ready for dinner with her lil sis. KJ and Nona were both unfaithful as partners, but I am sure they both loved each other to a certain extent. We could twist the texts any way we wish. For instance, maybe since he was at her house until after midnight the night before her death and was up talking to mom until 4am or so, they had a huge fight and the whole text from her was meant to be sarcastic, only fueling his flame and adding to his motive, if in fact he ever had one. That's one way it could be looked at. Just a thought.

[christina]

Absolutely. If Kevin is innocent I hope that LE can establish it this time around.

Thank you for responding to that.
But most importantly, firmly establish the guilt of the killer.

[LurkerNoMore]

Wow, you seem to have a lot of information.

Which means what, exactly?

[jonikay]

He had no visible injuries to his hands. The brusing on Nona's face would have caused blood vessels to burst in the hand (at the very least). It also could have caused small cracks to appear near the knuckles. Kevin's open hand could not have caused the bruising that was present. It would have been done by a closed fist.

Attacking the chair would have done nothing as it was a padded chair and he used his open hand.

All my opinon, of course... I have not yet received my honorary degree from the police academy for some reason... :rolleyes:

Brent
Was the chair in fact padded? I didn't think so, but could be mistaken.

[FDInLaw]

Of course - anything is possible. I was just stating that according to the law, Kevin is innocent.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Besides, if everyone had the same opinion, this board just wouldn't be the same.

Thanks,

BrentAnd Kevin is free to live his life. The fact remains, in this case he is the only one that has been charged. Let's hope that changes and that there is in fact a chance for justice. :rose:

[hawgustusgloop]

Jones loaned her the computer in her apartment? I wish I could find my notes!?! Was that in a Courier article?

Surely you posted on this board anything of relevance from your notes, right? And surely that would be an important detail worth posting, right? So, maybe you can just review your posts from the time period of the trial? Wouldn't something that important be posted here, if it was in your notes? Just trying to help.

[christina]

I think the problem that people have with Kevin supposedly trying to resuscitate(sp?) Nona is that he told the 911 operator that he thought she was dead. And indeed it should have been obvious.

Why would we expect the killer to have some damage to his hands? Did I miss something?

Agree that the forensics in the apartment should have been more complete. As should there have been forensics on KJ's vehicle and more information about his cellphone.

There was a time lapse between them entering the apartment and Jones getting on the phone with 911. Whiteside testified Jones went straight to Nona once they opened the sliding door. Whiteside was with him then went to the front door to let Ms Jones in. The call to 911 was intitiated during that time.

I do think that blood evidence in the car Jones drove that day would have gone a long way towards convicting him.

[christina]

Was the chair in fact padded? I didn't think so, but could be mistaken.

Don't think the chair was padded and it doesn't matter as to injuries on his hands. That incident happened quite a while after Jones hands were inspected and photographed.

[tiggergreen]

Was the chair in fact padded? I didn't think so, but could be mistaken.

I could also be wrong - all my information comes from what was shown on the 48 hours tv show - they brought up the details about the hand. From what I remember, it looked like a padded chair.

Brent

[hawgustusgloop]

Loretta - A question for you - when Kevin is vindicated and when another individual is arrested and convicted, will you post an apology here? Will you be able to live with yourself after all the horrible things you've said about Kevin and his family, the unnecessarily hurtful and judgmental things? Will you have bumper stickers produced that say "I WAS WRONG!"?

Why in the world does THAT matter? Why lorettalockhorn? Why not me? Why not any of the many, MANY other people who have thought he was guilty and made fun of his clothing? Why so ridiculously personal? Why so creepy?

[christina]

Surely you posted on this board anything of relevance from your notes, right? And surely that would be an important detail worth posting, right? So, maybe you can just review your posts from the time period of the trial? Wouldn't something that important be posted here, if it was in your notes? Just trying to help.

I do not remember it being stated who owned the computer in Nona's apartment. It may not have stuck out in my mind because it isn't that relevant to me. I am just curious.

[jonikay]

Don't think the chair was padded and it doesn't matter as to injuries on his hands. That incident happened quite a while after Jones hands were inspected and photographed.
You're right. IIRC, it didn't happen during the interrogation that occurred the night of the murder. I believe it stated that it was the interrogation that occurred the night of the visitation, a few days after. There wasn't much footage of that at all on 48 hours, the interrogation the night of the murder, that is.
And for the record, I don't remember any talk of the computer being KJ's during the part of the trial that I attended. IIRC, there wasn't much talk of the computer while I was there. And to answer a question posted awhile back about Nona possibly living up to 30 minutes past the attack, this was in my court notes during the pros opening statement and supposedly based on evidence from the ME, the testimony that I was not present for.

[FDInLaw]

Thank you for responding to that.
But most importantly, firmly establish the guilt of the killer.That is what it will take.

[FDInLaw]

I do not remember it being stated who owned the computer in Nona's apartment. It may not have stuck out in my mind because it isn't that relevant to me. I am just curious.
I wasn't talking about the computer in Nona's apartment. Let me do some digging. . .

[lorettalockhorn]

I understand why you would say this. But it makes your compliments to and thanking me for attending and reporting on the trial suspect.

But Lorretta, surely you and I can agree for all of our different opinions and interpretations, that this isn't about you and me, it isn't about tearing up Jones, it isnt about gossip of Jones and his family members, but this is about justice for Nona and discussing the facts of the case, right?

Whether I thank(ed) you or not doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you have impeached your own veracity through your conflicting posts.

Most everything that I have posted about does have to do with the case, so not sure to which you refer. But thanks for instructing me on the purpose of the forum.

[lorettalockhorn]

Loretta - A question for you - when Kevin is vindicated and when another individual is arrested and convicted, will you post an apology here? Will you be able to live with yourself after all the horrible things you've said about Kevin and his family, the unnecessarily hurtful and judgmental things? Will you have bumper stickers produced that say "I WAS WRONG!"?

Why in the world would I do any of that? I found the evidence as presented by RPD and the State to be worth of a guilty verdict and that is what I rendered in my mind. That isn't to say that the new investigation won't reveal absolute proof that there is a true killer on the loose and I will be 100%behind his prosecution and punishment. What horrible things have I said about the Jones family that I shouldn't have? KJ put them in the public and continues to do so. As do his attorneys and CBS, etc. ad nauseum, ad infinitum. Whether or not he murdered Nona, he should get a grip on his behavior and his family should look at their dysfunctions.

No way am I putting any kind of bumper sticker on my beeyootifull car. Might have to have some of that delicious crow pie though! http://www.pete-online.us/Images/EatCrow.jpg

[guppie]

just thought i would bring this over from the other thread in case anyone is interested.
these are the links to the 2 photos of the wrapper. the first one is close up, showing the reddish blur. the second is farther away, showing the gold color of the wrapper better than the first. i think this gold wrapper is distinct to the magnum type. correct me if you find something else that resembles it.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/guppie29/wrappercloseup.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg255/guppie29/wrapper.jpg

[guppie]

I think that it is ugly!! But I am not making such a big deal out of it like others.......:cuss:

i think you are completely lost...oops, sorry did i write that?

[FDInLaw]

just thought i would bring this over from the other thread in case anyone is interested.
That's right, let's all stop :punch: :punch: and talk condom wrapper! (See other thread). :biggrin:

We need some young men over there. . . I'm just saying. . .

[guppie]

Sheesh, it's one thing to watch people pretending to have sex on the screen and being in the same space as flying body fluids.

Interesting that out of the people who were in the courtroom and reported here, that you have aligned yourself with the one who has proven herself to be a liar.

You must be linguistically naive if you believe that innocent and not guilty have the same meaning. 48 Hours made a lousy presentation IMO, due to several misconceptions which they aired as truth, but there are plenty of people who will agree despite the disparity in their sources of information, that the prosecution possibly didn't argue the case beyond a reasonable doubt.

Brent has an ally in WonderWoman...i think that says it all.

[lorettalockhorn]

That's right, let's all stop :punch: :punch: and talk condom wrapper! (See other thread). :biggrin:

We need some young men over there. . . I'm just saying. . .

Okay, now what is it we're trying to learn about the condom wrapper? What kind it was? Do we know that the one shown on 48 Hours is even the wrapper in question?

[christina]

You're right. IIRC, it didn't happen during the interrogation that occurred the night of the murder. I believe it stated that it was the interrogation that occurred the night of the visitation, a few days after. There wasn't much footage of that at all on 48 hours, the interrogation the night of the murder, that is.
And for the record, I don't remember any talk of the computer being KJ's during the part of the trial that I attended. IIRC, there wasn't much talk of the computer while I was there. And to answer a question posted awhile back about Nona possibly living up to 30 minutes past the attack, this was in my court notes during the pros opening statement and supposedly based on evidence from the ME, the testimony that I was not present for.

It was during the interview the night of the murder. That whole interview was shown at the trial. The interrogation the night of visitation was not.

I did not remember much about the computer either. I do remember being bored with that testimony as it was dry and seemed superfluous.
Thank you for sharing your court notes about how long Nona might have lived after the attack.

[FDInLaw]

Okay, now what is it we're trying to learn about the condom wrapper? What kind it was? Do we know that the one shown on 48 Hours is even the wrapper in question?
Been wondering that myself lol! Christina (or someone else that was there) can you tell us?

[guppie]

Dude....if you indeed committed a crime, you are guilty of that crime, regardless of court proceedings or anyone's opinion.

yes, that is correct...in "my world" too! ha

[guppie]

Okay, now what is it we're trying to learn about the condom wrapper? What kind it was? Do we know that the one shown on 48 Hours is even the wrapper in question?

you have an excellent point. should we trust that those pics (say of the knife and condom on the counter or the phone on the floor) are the actual photos? what do you know about this sorta thing as far as journalism, Lo?

[upallnight]

Christina, sorry had a long day at work but here is a ref. to Nona being alive (uncon.) up to 30 minutes. Not sure if this is what you want but let me know and I will look again if not.
Story Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2007
Opening statements foreshadow teams' trial strategies (http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15334&Search=nona%20dirksmeyer)
Gibbons, Johnson each present plausible, yet very different scenarios
By Mary Kincy Benefield
Reporter
During the final, lethal stage of the attack, Dirksmeyer was bludgeoned in the back of the skull with the base of a metal floor lamp used "like a hammer," according to Gibbons.

He told the jury the medical examiner believed although this was a lethal blow, Dirksmeyer may have been alive, unconscious, for up to 30 minutes.

[christina]

just thought i would bring this over from the other thread in case anyone is interested.

Thanks for the photos. I couldnt make anything out on them though.
I just remember all the condom and wrapper from way back on the thread..... waaaaaaay too much information for this old lady!!

[christina]

I wasn't talking about the computer in Nona's apartment. Let me do some digging. . .

Thank you

[christina]

Christina, sorry had a long day at work but here is a ref. to Nona being alive (uncon.) up to 30 minutes. Not sure if this is what you want but let me know and I will look again if not.
Story Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2007
Opening statements foreshadow teams' trial strategies (http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15334&Search=nona%20dirksmeyer)
Gibbons, Johnson each present plausible, yet very different scenarios
By Mary Kincy Benefield
Reporter
During the final, lethal stage of the attack, Dirksmeyer was bludgeoned in the back of the skull with the base of a metal floor lamp used "like a hammer," according to Gibbons.

He told the jury the medical examiner believed although this was a lethal blow, Dirksmeyer may have been alive, unconscious, for up to 30 minutes.

Thank you for digging that up. If that was the case-Nona lived for 30 minutes after the attack-that makes the tragedy even more horrible!

[lorettalockhorn]

you have an excellent point. should we trust that those pics (say of the knife and condom on the counter or the phone on the floor) are the actual photos? what do you know about this sorta thing as far as journalism, Lo?

Well, someone leaked information to CBS, I suppose those could be the actual photos that were part of the case file. I will assume that if they couldn't get hold of such a thing that they would stage something as realistically as possible, based on testimony or eyewitness accounts. Or maybe they just make stuff the heck up. :shrug:

Speaking of the testimony, I wonder if CBS bought a trial transcript? Or if anyone else has?

[guppie]

BUT. . . he still may have killed Nona. . . it's a hard one, but do try to wrap your head around it. :patriot:

thanks, FD. i am glad some people do understand what "presumed" innocent means. as we know, there are people acquitted of crimes they actually commit. imagine that? (see OJ) just as there are those who did not commit the crime, yet are found guilty. (see Ron Williamson)
just because a person is "considered" or "presumed" innocent before trial and found "not guilty" at the end, does NOT mean he/she did not commit the crime.
does it take a brain surgeon? lawdy! i think i am a bit overwrought...may need a glass of wine. i also drink wine in my world. ha :rolleyes:

[upallnight]

[quote=tiggergreen;9093935]

I know some people have been found guilty of murder and the verdict overturned because of new DNA and what have you. Reverse side of it, once tried for murder and found not guilty, that person can no longer be tried for murder again. But what if that person was not indeed innocent of the murder but found not guilty and it could later be proven 100% he or she committed the murder, maybe a confession, maybe a video, whatever. What if it was your loved one that got the hell beat out of them, tortured and murdered. At this point would you not then believe not guilty does not mean innocent of the crime just a guilty does not always mean that person committed the crime. That is a flaw in our judicial system. No one knows except the people there, the evidence is what it is, our opinions are what they are just as the jury had their opinions. If KJ did kill Nona, their will never be Justice For Nona because our system will no longer be able to convict him for murder. If he did not hopefully this new investigation will prove that. It will be no different if they have a new arrest, based on evidence and I am sure we will all be back on here discussing it again. I have girls and boys, I try to look at it both ways based on evidence. My point being again, an innocent person can be sent to prison but still have the right to an appeal and possibly have that verdict overturned, that is a good thing based on evidence of innocence thru an appeal. A guilty person found not guilty can never be tried for murder again no matter what and can kill again, could kill one of your loved ones, that is not innocent in my mind, just was an opinion of a jury of 12 that voted not guilty and he/she walked. Done deal as far as the justice system goes for the murder charge for a guilty person found not guilty.

[sweetgranny]

Wow, you seem to have a lot of information.


OMG My thoughts exactly!!!!!!!!!! I was jut going to finish reading and quote him. Did Tigger see Nona???:shrug:

[upallnight]

[quote=tiggergreen;9093935]What world are you living in? I find nothing different between Kevin watching someone have sex and going to say 9 1/2 weeks...

Ugh! Your world is different than mine that is for sure. That's scary! Just like it was when it was reported KJ did this, good old fella hu?

[upallnight]

During the 48 Hours I leaned forward to the screen trying to hear that exchange? In the courtroom there was lots of movement and like on the 48 Hours tape, it was easier to hear what Mr Dipert said simply because he was louder. I think you are right about the order and the words said.
They both made the same basic point in my opinion and looked equally as emotional. The difference being Ms Whiteside said maybe?

Duane being Nona's Stepfather and believing KJ is guilty based on the evidence presented and being under so much emotional stress, I would think his statement to be much more understood than Ms. Whiteside who is not the Stepmother of KJ and the fact there was no evidence that Duane committed this murder. What evidence or lack of evidence did she base her outlash toward Duane on, a maybe? Don't understand why she would even say THAT to him. Wonder what she said to her son after his reported sex act. Maybe she should focus her attention on her son. I just do not understand why some try to turn attention toward Duane when there is no evidence against him. She was wrong IMO. Don't know her or care to know her but I don't think she should have said this. Maybe in some peoples opinion Duane should not have said what he did, but given the circumstances, it is much more understandable.

[upallnight]

I understand why you would say this. But it makes your compliments to and thanking me for attending and reporting on the trial suspect.

But Lorretta, surely you and I can agree for all of our different opinions and interpretations, that this isn't about you and me, it isn't about tearing up Jones, it isnt about gossip of Jones and his family members, but this is about justice for Nona and discussing the facts of the case, right?

So you are saying Loretta is correct, right Christina?

[upallnight]

I am very sorry, but I feel that you do not quite understand our court system - from wikipedia:

The presumption of innocence — being innocent until proven guilty — is a legal right that the accused in criminal trials has in many modern nations. It states that no person shall be considered guilty until finally convicted by a court. The burden of proof is thus on the prosecution, which has to convince the court that the accused is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In case of remaining doubts, the accused is to be acquitted; this idea expressed by the Latin legal maxim "In dubio pro reo".

This duty on the prosecution was famously referred to as the 'golden thread' in the criminal law by Lord Sankey LC in Woolmington v DPP [1935] AC 462:

Throughout the web of the English criminal law one golden thread is always to be seen - that it is the duty of the prosecution to prove the prisoner's guilt subject to what I have already said as to the defence of insanity and subject also to any statutory exception...

In principle, the defense does not have to 'prove' anything. However, the defense may present evidence tending to show that there is a doubt as to the guilt of the accused.

Conversely, in many authoritarian regimes the prosecution case is, in practice, believed by default unless the accused can prove they are innocent, a practice called presumption of guilt. Many people believe that presumption of guilt is unfair and even immoral because it allows the strategic targeting of any individual, since it's often difficult to establish firm proof of innocence (for example, it's often impossible to establish an alibi if the person is home alone at the time of the crime).

In many countries belonging to the Anglo-Saxon legal tradition, the Principle of Presumption of Innocence is phrased such that "the accused is presumed to be innocent until it has been declared guilty by a court".

End Quote...

Kevin is innocent until proven guilty - he has not been found guilty, therefore he is innocent.

Brent

This does not say Jack about being found not guilty due to r/doubt meaning the person is innocent.

[lorettalockhorn]

Duane being Nona's Stepfather and believing KJ is guilty based on the evidence presented and being under so much emotional stress, I would think his statement to be much more understood than Ms. Whiteside who is not the Stepmother of KJ and the fact there was no evidence that Duane committed this murder. What evidence or lack of evidence did she base her outlash toward Duane on, a maybe? Don't understand why she would even say THAT to him. Wonder what she said to her son after his reported sex act. Maybe she should focus her attention on her son. I just do not understand why some try to turn attention toward Duane when there is no evidence against him. She was wrong IMO. Don't know her or care to know her but I don't think she should have said this. Maybe in some peoples opinion Duane should not have said what he did, but given the circumstances, it is much more understandable.

Improper though it was, I understand Duane's outburst. But P Whiteside's has always puzzled me. As far as I can tell, not only was Duane completely alibied, but he had no motive whatsoever. What would cause her to lash out in such a bizarre fashion to a survivor of the victim? How did she become so embroiled in the case and the trial?

[upallnight]

He had no visible injuries to his hands. The brusing on Nona's face would have caused blood vessels to burst in the hand (at the very least). It also could have caused small cracks to appear near the knuckles. Kevin's open hand could not have caused the bruising that was present. It would have been done by a closed fist.

Attacking the chair would have done nothing as it was a padded chair and he used his open hand.

All my opinon, of course... I have not yet received my honorary degree from the police academy for some reason... :rolleyes:

Brent

Care to give a link as to where this was testified to by any professional in the murder trial of Kevin Jones. Oh, just your opinion, I see.

[lorettalockhorn]

Care to give a link as to where this was testified to by any professional in the murder trial of Kevin Jones. Oh, just your opinion, I see.

I thought that Bacon told Schlesinger that Kevin probably struck Nona in the face with the palm/heel of his hand, as he had the chair in the interrogation room. I wouldn't think that this is a part of the hand that has a close capillary bed, that would bruise easily. And depending on how dense/weathered/calloused (or whatever the word is that I'm looking for), I wouldn't expect that skin to break or show any injuries.

From Dr. Kokes' testimony: He said the bruising on her forehead was consistent with being struck by a hand, but he could not determine whether it was an open hand or fist.

http://couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15414&Search=charles%20kokes

[guppie]

What world are you living in? When I was in the army (Hanau, Germany), I was attempting to get ready to go to church and the guys in my room were watching a porn movie. I asked them if they could possibly turn it off for about ten minutes while I got ready and they refused. So I had to listen to fake screams while I dressed. Today, you can go to rated R movies and they portray sex on the screen - we have become a nation of voyeurs.

I find nothing different between Kevin watching someone have sex and going to say 9 1/2 weeks... Personally, I want this kind of trash outlawed (magazines, movies, etc). But we live in a very imperfect world.

I watched 48 hours and by the end of the show was pretty sure that Kevin was innocent, but they left out too many details, so I ended up on this forum and spent several days wading through posts.

I especially enjoyed the posts from christine and her portrayal of the trial. It was after this that I decided that Kevin was indeed innocent.

Also, in this country, you are "innocent until proven guilty" - so yes, Kevin is innocent because his trial ended up with a "not guilty" verdict.

He does not have a motive. This crime scene tells me that another jealous boyfriend did this because she didn't want to have a relationship with him.

That is a motive. Please enlighten me on how Kevin has a motive?

Brent

i live in this world and so do you. unfortunately, Nona does not because someone willfully and deliberately took her away from this world at the age of 19. she was finally getting stronger and finding her way when her life was so brutally taken. this beautiful girl is why we are here. we are not here to bash kevin jones. we seek the truth. do not question what world i live in. clearly you and i live here, and we have different opinions about kevin jones innocence or guilt. i think you should not jump into this forum insulting its members and instead use some posting etiquette. surely you learned manners in the army. i will answer your questions when you pose them in a decent way.
btw, it is "PRESUMED innocent until proven guilty", NOT " innocent until proven guilty."

[guppie]

Surely you posted on this board anything of relevance from your notes, right? And surely that would be an important detail worth posting, right? So, maybe you can just review your posts from the time period of the trial? Wouldn't something that important be posted here, if it was in your notes? Just trying to help.

if i had a nickel for every time christina said she still couldn't find her notes... is that some kind of inside joke?

[upallnight]

Loretta - A question for you - when Kevin is vindicated and when another individual is arrested and convicted, will you post an apology here? Will you be able to live with yourself after all the horrible things you've said about Kevin and his family, the unnecessarily hurtful and judgmental things? Will you have bumper stickers produced that say "I WAS WRONG!"?

Maybe the jury was wrong, who knows. Wonder what they should do if they freed a person who committed murder, oh, nothing I guess what can they do. And based some of that decision on grannies Christianity.

[LurkerNoMore]

Why in the world does THAT matter? Why lorettalockhorn? Why not me? Why not any of the many, MANY other people who have thought he was guilty and made fun of his clothing? Why so ridiculously personal? Why so creepy?

The honest answer is that I can understand and empathize with what I perceive to be your position, though I don't agree with you. I can't say I share the same empathy with Loretta, or the psychological motivation behind her words, and especially her tendency to call broadly and forever paint someone as a [insert: liar, drunk, drug addict, philanderer, pervert, etc, etc, etc] so easily. So when I read, once again, Loretta calling Christina a liar, well, it angered me. Which means that Loretta will probably refer to me as "hot tempered" or more likely "violent" and "prone to rage" forevermore. Loretta. Queen of Exaggeration. IMO.

It's all personal perception, of course.

[lorettalockhorn]

The honest answer is that I can understand and empathize with what I perceive to be your position, though I don't agree with you. I can't say I share the same empathy with Loretta, or the psychological motivation behind her words, and especially her tendency to call broadly and forever paint someone as a [insert: liar, drunk, drug addict, philanderer, pervert, etc, etc, etc] so easily. So when I read, once again, Loretta calling Christina a liar, well, it angered me. Which means that Loretta will probably refer to me as "hot tempered" or more likely "violent" and "prone to rage" forevermore. Loretta. Queen of Exaggeration. IMO.

It's all personal perception, of course.

What? Who? Me?

Seriously, why would any of what I post anger you? And who the heck did I call a pervert? I would have sworn that I used different words to describe Ryan Whiteside, Jeff Simmons and KJ with regard to their aberrant behavior re: voyeurism. But I'm old and I forget things. Who did I call a drug addict?

Naw, I won't call you violent, but I do wonder why you are so invested that you would get so worked up over a message board thread that doesn't even have anything to do with you.

Or does it?

[lorettalockhorn]

And gosh, it hadn't even occurred to me that there was any psychological motivation behind my words. I thought I was just a pragmatist who doesn't brook a lot of BS in my life. Or my community.

[ifIwereU]

man, the board got hot today....and I missed all the fun.....looks like everyone is taking their shot at Loretta....unfortunately I don't have any negative feedback for her(?):biggrin: I think she is quite entertaining...

[ifIwereU]

It was during the interview the night of the murder. That whole interview was shown at the trial. The interrogation the night of visitation was not.

I did not remember much about the computer either. I do remember being bored with that testimony as it was dry and seemed superfluous.
Thank you for sharing your court notes about how long Nona might have lived after the attack.

my recollection of the computer is that Nona used JOnes computer over the summer and that it was actually at her house...JOnes took the computer with him to Fayetteville at the start of the semester.....an FBI agent testified that the computer was programed to automatically save the "IM" messages in a particular file...they were found to be in chronological order and saved by month....I agree with Christina, it was dry and technical....his testimony was used in rebuttal....

[lorettalockhorn]

Not to worry, Loretta has thicker skin than all of Camp KuJo combined. :seeya:

[upallnight]

I thought that Bacon told Schlesinger that Kevin probably struck Nona in the face with the palm/heel of his hand, as he had the chair in the interrogation room. I wouldn't think that this is a part of the hand that has a close capillary bed, that would bruise easily. And depending on how dense/weathered/calloused (or whatever the word is that I'm looking for), I wouldn't expect that skin to break or show any injuries.

From Dr. Kokes' testimony: He said the bruising on her forehead was consistent with being struck by a hand, but he could not determine whether it was an open hand or fist.

http://couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15414&Search=charles%20kokes

My point exactly, Thanks L for the link.

[lorettalockhorn]

my recollection of the computer is that Nona used JOnes computer over the summer and that it was actually at her house...JOnes took the computer with him to Fayetteville at the start of the semester.....an FBI agent testified that the computer was programed to automatically save the "IM" messages in a particular file...they were found to be in chronological order and saved by month....I agree with Christina, it was dry and technical....his testimony was used in rebuttal....

In rebuttal to what/whom? Do you remember?

[lorettalockhorn]

My point exactly, Thanks L for the link.

Your point exactly; how does Brent know what he says that he knows? That Kokes didn't and Bacon was perhaps supposing?

[FDInLaw]

my recollection of the computer is that Nona used JOnes computer over the summer and that it was actually at her house...JOnes took the computer with him to Fayetteville at the start of the semester.....an FBI agent testified that the computer was programed to automatically save the "IM" messages in a particular file...they were found to be in chronological order and saved by month....I agree with Christina, it was dry and technical....his testimony was used in rebuttal....Sure glad you remember this. . . I sure hate digging. . . been enjoying the read but the Courier didn't cover everything.

[ifIwereU]

In rebuttal to what/whom? Do you remember?

I missed the defense techo guy testify but based on the FBI guy and his testimony the defense apparently raised some issued about Nona's computer being accessed around 11:15 am...which narrowed Jones time of being back in dover at noon....but the FBI refutted the claim indicating it was the computer itself checking for updates or some similar function that would not require an actual person at the keyboard....then he talked about the work he did on Jones computer that revealed all the instant messages between Nona and some other person....I don't remember if the person was named in court but for some reason I'm thinking JM...

[lorettalockhorn]

I missed the defense techo guy testify but based on the FBI guy and his testimony the defense apparently raised some issued about Nona's computer being accessed around 11:15 am...which narrowed Jones time of being back in dover at noon....but the FBI refutted the claim indicating it was the computer itself checking for updates or some similar function that would not require an actual person at the keyboard....then he talked about the work he did on Jones computer that revealed all the instant messages between Nona and some other person....I don't remember if the person was named in court but for some reason I'm thinking JM...

Okay, that sounds familiar. Not sure if this relates, but if I'm not online when someone sends me an IM, I receive offline messages; maybe it was something along those lines. I think that Ox had some posts about this very thing.

[FDInLaw]

Funny. . . I was just reading this!!!

The state also called William “Trey” Whatley, a computer crime agent and computer forensic examiner with the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Little Rock.
Whatley testified that activity recorded on Dirksmeyer’s computer about 11 a.m. on the day of the murder was “an automated activity done by Microsoft Messenger,” and was in no way consistent with anyone having physically accessed Dirksmeyer’s computer. Defense witness Bruce Smith, a vice president of digital investigations with Norcross Group, testified Tuesday that he did not believe the files he recovered, which included two photos depicting a young couple and a young girl, “were associated with MSN.” He could not say whether they were automatically generated or not.
Whatley testified Wednesday that the files transferred to Dirksmeyer’s computer at about 11 a.m. and later were consistent in size with MSN Messenger profile photos. Messenger is an Internet service which allows users to chat one-on-one with “contacts.” Many Messenger subscribers list personal photos alongside their usernames.

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15436&Search=kevin%20jones

[upallnight]

Improper though it was, I understand Duane's outburst. But P Whiteside's has always puzzled me. As far as I can tell, not only was Duane completely alibied, but he had no motive whatsoever. What would cause her to lash out in such a bizarre fashion to a survivor of the victim? How did she become so embroiled in the case and the trial?

I would like to know the answer to this also. Well, KJ and Ryan seem awful close, or close to each other in some activities, maybe they consider them family?

[jonikay]

I would like to know the answer to this also. Well, KJ and Ryan seem awful close, or close to each other in some activities, maybe they consider them family?
I agree with upall. RW has caught alot of flack for being KJ's friend (and cough*accomplice*cough...jk). The Whitesides have probably been some of the only support that the Jones family has received the last few years. Ms. Whitey probably thought that by attacking KJ, Duane was attacking RW, after all RW was right beside KJ when when the verdict was read. Mama Bear just overreacted, it is a hillbilly trait very common 'round these parts. (Not to misunderstand, I live 'round these parts too. Probably within spitting distance of the Whiteside's and only a hop, skip, and jump from the Jones estate.)

[ifIwereU]

Funny. . . I was just reading this!!!



http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15436&Search=kevin%20jones


telepathy....quick what number am I thinking of?

[upallnight]

Your point exactly; how does Brent know what he says that he knows? That Kokes didn't and Bacon was perhaps supposing?

You got it!

[ifIwereU]

Where is the evidence of that? She texted him to say that she loved him that very morning. Please show me evidence to the contrary.

I have to agree with sololobo that there is only one piece of evidence that everything hinges on - the bloody palm print on a light bulb. That is not enough to convict him criminally or civilly.

I would have done the same thing - I would have immediately tried everything in my power to rescuscitate my girlfriend, getting blood all over my face and hands. At that point I would not be concerned about incriminating myself.
The big clincher to me though, is that the person that did this would have to have done some damage to his hand and Kevin's hand had none.The real killer is still out there - I just wish they would have tested the blood on all the different surfaces for dna...

All statements are, of course, in my lowly opinion.

Brent

Hi Brent,
you would not have attempted rescuscitation if your girlfriends teeth were clinched shut because you would not have been able too...which they were...Jones talks about this in his first interview...

as to the absence of wounds on the hands...well, I know everyone is sick of the OJ comparison...but after OJ brutally murdered his wife and Ron Goldman....with dozens of stab wounds....of which both victims were killed...he only sustained a small cut on one finger.....Nona's wounds were not lethal....so I think its safe to assume the perp could have done the deed without injuring himself with the knife....
as to the bruising to the face, I will concur with Loretts theory that open palmed strike..which he demostrated on the 48 hour video would not have caused substantial injury his hands....Jones also admitted on the video to having never been in a fight....

[jonikay]

telepathy....quick what number am I thinking of?
Hint! HINT!