Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[FDInLaw]

So, there's this buddy of mine whose pet theory is that Nona's death was a sex crime. . . a rape attempt gone wrong. He and I argue through the evidence like you would not believe. The finger nail came up. . . do we know if it was a torn or clipped nail??? I wonder if it was determined to have nothing to do with the case, or if it is under scrutiny again now???

[lorettalockhorn]

my recollection of the 911 call was that he spoke for a minute or two and the dispatcher told him to stay on the phone that help would be there soon and he said (paraphrasing) here, talk to my mom...and the dispatcher told him that help was coming and not to leave and he said "i'll be here" then he gave the phone back to his mother...now that doesn't sound sinister on its face, but hearing the way he said it was like he waiting on a pizza delivery.

I sometimes think that maybe I am just twisting the evidence to fit my theory of the case....but when I evaluate these things in terms of stranger rapists or an acquaintance murder...I can't make it add up....

Me too, a rapist would have had his own weapon of intimidation and would more likely have used it to kill her, and would have had no reason to abscond with the battery. I don't see any other acquaintance as really having had a motive.

You know, I used to think I knew what really happened. (LOL at myself here.) Now it's a mystery while waiting for the new investigation to close.

[ifIwereU]

So, there's this buddy of mine whose pet theory is that Nona's death was a sex crime. . . a rape attempt gone wrong. He and I argue through the evidence like you would not believe. The finger nail came up. . . do we know if it was a torn or clipped nail??? I wonder if it was determined to have nothing to do with the case, or if it is under scrutiny again now???

nail was clipped...not torn....defense found it....but did not make a fuss about it.

[ifIwereU]

So, there's this buddy of mine whose pet theory is that Nona's death was a sex crime. . . a rape attempt gone wrong. He and I argue through the evidence like you would not believe. The finger nail came up. . . do we know if it was a torn or clipped nail??? I wonder if it was determined to have nothing to do with the case, or if it is under scrutiny again now???


There area countless stories of "so-called" sexual assaults where the suspect does not actually penetrate the vagina (or any other body orafice) for that matter. for reference see articles and books written by Roy Hazelwood. Suepcts loose their erection, or nerve, etc and cannot complete the deal so to speak. Most of these rapes DO NOT include murder....Roy has a book titled Dark Dreams that focuses on rapes and sexual homicides. a little light reading....for those whose are interested. the book describes five types of rapists...fascinating read if you believe Nona was victim of this type of attack.

[ifIwereU]

Me too, a rapist would have had his own weapon of intimidation and would more likely have used it to kill her, and would have had no reason to abscond with the battery. I don't see any other acquaintance as really having had a motive.

You know, I used to think I knew what really happened. (LOL at myself here.) Now it's a mystery while waiting for the new investigation to close.

I agree! the cell phone battery and the stick are the two things that I can not fit into any other scenerio other than KJ did it. there is a reason the phone was on the floor (altercation)....and still in apartment(someone needed the phone to be found and indicator so to speak) but wanted to "cut the phone line" so it could not be used to call for help. Where is the stinking stick! why would a stranger take it? unless it was used as a weapon...I mean he took the knife....right? didn't they determine the knife on the counter was serrated and could not have caused the cuts and stab wounds to the neck and shoulders? the reason the lamp was still there is because it was too big to carry out un detected.

[hawgustusgloop]

That seems to be the view of a bunch of others that I know, seems sad being a murder trial. You would think they would give it more time. I really do not think they asked that many questions. Still think the tacky word was took by the jury as the main reason for beyond reasonable doubt and not to convict. I really do not agree that this jury was able to look at the key issues/evidence like they should have done and was swore under oath to do so. That tacky word would have been a flag for me to argue with fellow juriors if tacky upon discover, tacky 5 days later, that does not mean wet at all, it means the appearance was the same when viewed 5 days later which leads me to believe his interp. on the appearance of the blood print was tacky upon discovery******same app. 5 days later = dry. With that evidence combined with the rest, I would have NEVER have voted NOT GUILTY. His attorney's could have appealed his conviction. I do think there was enough evidence. It was all the way the jury viewed in from the arguement of KJ's attorney's. KJ's attorney's knew how to use Bacon's interp. of the tacky print to KJ's advantage. So the jury bought into it and it put reasonable doubt in some minds of the jury. I still think it was sorry for them allow testimony of Nona's relationships etc., IN DETAIL on some testimonies, but did not throw any of KJ's crap into there. He was the one on trial not her. I will believe this new evidence in the news if it is strong, but for now I believe it is a crock of crap! Maybe the state did not prosecute beyond r/d. But I still believe the jury had a HUGH responsibility to listen/look/debate, etc., all the evidence. I do think they failed on that part. I do not believe they gave it enough time to consider everything. This because the jury has the ultimate decision on guilty/not guilty. I would be as concerned about putting someone that was arrested for MURDER back on the street as much as I would be not convicting if there is r/d. Both is equally important. Both deserves attention to detail/evidence. Well, I guess you can see I don't think the jury took the time needed to look at all the evidence and discuss it as I think should have been done. Not saying they would have voted Guilty, I just think there was alot to consider and to fast with the verdict.

I agree with this. I noticed on 48 Hours that one of the jurors said they went through every bit of the evidence in deliberations. I find that impossible to believe! There is no way they deliberated long enough for that.

[jonikay]

my recollection of the 911 call was that he spoke for a minute or two and the dispatcher told him to stay on the phone that help would be there soon and he said (paraphrasing) here, talk to my mom...and the dispatcher told him that help was coming and not to leave and he said "i'll be here" then he gave the phone back to his mother...now that doesn't sound sinister on its face, but hearing the way he said it was like he waiting on a pizza delivery.

I sometimes think that maybe I am just twisting the evidence to fit my theory of the case....but when I evaluate these things in terms of stranger rapists or an acquaintance murder...I can't make it add up....
You're right. His reaction wasn't even comparable to his mother's during the 911 call. I feel as though I look into things from a closed minded POV sometimes and I try to step back and reevaluate, but I just end up at the same point. I think he was nervous during the call, I really do. The reason he wasn't on the phone long was probably because he didn't want the detectives and RPD to pick apart his behavior during the call like we are now.

[guppie]

I agree! the cell phone battery and the stick are the two things that I can not fit into any other scenerio other than KJ did it. there is a reason the phone was on the floor (altercation)....and still in apartment(someone needed the phone to be found and indicator so to speak) but wanted to "cut the phone line" so it could not be used to call for help. Where is the stinking stick! why would a stranger take it? unless it was used as a weapon...I mean he took the knife....right? didn't they determine the knife on the counter was serrated and could not have caused the cuts and stab wounds to the neck and shoulders? the reason the lamp was still there is because it was too big to carry out un detected.


i am with you on the cell phone battery.
yes, i cannot figure out the stick either...unless he sat there and planned out his strategy for later before he left her apt while she lay there dying? gonna have to go look up loretta's stick theory!

and if this were a random attempted rape, do rapists usually take time to lock the door on their way out? just asking.

why did KJ tell police he thought there had been a "break-in?" he knew the apt was all the way locked and no sign of break-in. he was at both doors during that time. seems he looked around the place downstairs and touched greeting cards that weren't his and all.

[Amy]

i am with you on the cell phone battery.
yes, i cannot figure out the stick either...unless he sat there and planned out his strategy for later before he left her apt while she lay there dying? gonna have to go look up loretta's stick theory!

and if this were a random attempted rape, do rapists usually take time to lock the door on their way out? just asking.

why did KJ tell police he thought there had been a "break-in?" he knew the apt was all the way locked and no sign of break-in. he was at both doors during that time. seems he looked around the place downstairs and touched greeting cards that weren't his and all.

The break in statement is rather odd. After all, if there HAD been a break in, KJ et al would have been able to get into the house thru the break in. After all, THEY had to "break in" thru the sliding door to gain access.

[lorettalockhorn]

You're right. His reaction wasn't even comparable to his mother's during the 911 call. I feel as though I look into things from a closed minded POV sometimes and I try to step back and reevaluate, but I just end up at the same point. I think he was nervous during the call, I really do. The reason he wasn't on the phone long was probably because he didn't want the detectives and RPD to pick apart his behavior during the call like we are now.


His reaction wasn't as hysterical because he already knew what the scene looked like. He didn't stay on the phone because he needed to plant the condom wrapper.

[lorettalockhorn]

i am with you on the cell phone battery.
yes, i cannot figure out the stick either...unless he sat there and planned out his strategy for later before he left her apt while she lay there dying? gonna have to go look up loretta's stick theory!

and if this were a random attempted rape, do rapists usually take time to lock the door on their way out? just asking.

why did KJ tell police he thought there had been a "break-in?" he knew the apt was all the way locked and no sign of break-in. he was at both doors during that time. seems he looked around the place downstairs and touched greeting cards that weren't his and all.

Loretta's stick theory is that he took it with him the night before; his plan was to sneak into the apartment, through the back door and do some snooping while Nona was in her test, but the workmen delayed him and he wasn't out of there when she got home and caught him. I think it's even possible that they argued the night before and she made him return his door key. But he knew that he could bump the door open if the stick was gone. He could have retrieved his key during the hysteria, before EMS and LE arrived.

[guppie]

Loretta's stick theory is that he took it with him the night before; his plan was to sneak into the apartment, through the back door and do some snooping while Nona was in her test, but the workmen delayed him and he wasn't out of there when she got home and caught him. I think it's even possible that they argued the night before and she made him return his door key. But he knew that he could bump the door open if the stick was gone. He could have retrieved his key during the hysteria, before EMS and LE arrived.


wow, then he would have had to know where that key was to go get it back...may be a stretch, but i will entertain that unless i come up with something better. ha

i am with you about the "alleged fight" the night before though. here's why.
looking at timeline posts, i see:
1) he could have easily spent the night since he was there until 12:30 so he musta gotten the boot!
2) once he got back to mommy's, she stayed up with him until 3am when she had to get up at 4:30 am!!! what the???? musta been something MAJOR!

also, i do think he possibly took the stick days before that so he could go in and out to "spy" without detection. jealous bf's or gf's do SPY!

problem: why would she text him such a sweetie sweet text that next morning? that throws me off.

questions:
what of the cell phone battery? (and not taking the sim card.) just to prevent her from calling for help???

do you think KJ saw that text trey sent "call me" at 11ish (the one that was seen but not responded to)?

[lorettalockhorn]

Totally amazed
This letter is in response to the recent Courier articles concerning the 48 Hours episode that televised pictures and videos from the Dirksmeyer murder case.
I am totally amazed that The Courier would take issue with material that is still part of an ongoing criminal investigation being released to a media source.
This was not your stance when you chose to print unsubstantiated third-party hearsay provided to you by the Russellville Police Department concerning a rape allegation case a year ago. What you printed in those articles was part of ongoing criminal investigation that was not subject to FOI. Yet, when questioned by my attorney, The Courier’s response was that since the Russellville Police Department provided the information, you had the right to print it.
You may recall the prosecuting attorney did not file charges in the rape case because his investigation showed that the accusations were found to be untrue. But the damage was already done to those individuals named in the article. I am well aware that a subsequent libel/slander lawsuit against The Courier was thrown out by a local court.
But what about your interpretation of common ethics and rights of individuals not to have their name dragged through the paper before any actual charges were ever filed (and never filed)?
There was nothing ethical about it. Now that 48 Hours has televised pictures and videos they were not supposed to have access to, is The Courier upset that these items were improperly provided to CBS, or that The Courier was not provided equal access to the same pictures and videos? To me it looks more like sour grapes on the part of The Courier rather than your heartfelt concern for others’ privacy being compromised.
Dan Huckabay
Dover

http://couriernews.com/letters.php

meh

[lorettalockhorn]

wow, then he would have had to know where that key was to go get it back...may be a stretch, but i will entertain that unless i come up with something better. ha

i am with you about the "alleged fight" the night before though. here's why.
looking at timeline posts, i see:
1) he could have easily spent the night since he was there until 12:30 so he musta gotten the boot!
2) once he got back to mommy's, she stayed up with him until 3am when she had to get up at 4:30 am!!! what the???? musta been something MAJOR!

also, i do think he possibly took the stick days before that so he could go in and out to "spy" without detection. jealous bf's or gf's do SPY!

problem: why would she text him such a sweetie sweet text that next morning? that throws me off.

questions:
what of the cell phone battery? (and not taking the sim card.) just to prevent her from calling for help???

do you think KJ saw that text trey sent "call me" at 11ish (the one that was seen but not responded to)?

I guess I figured that if she had taken his key away, that he watched where she put it and retrieved it.

Yeah, the text message to him that morning is a puzzler, I used to think that he had also taken her phone and had texted himself. But I had to quit trying to make things fit Kevin and just look at what Kevin fitted. (Does that make any sense?) Not sure that Nona would have been able to call for help, even if the phone had been intact; I've never read anything to indicate that she wasn't dead right there, that she tried to crawl away or anything.

And I suppose there is the possibility that Kevin and Nona had fought so often, that the morning text was just the beginning of the next phase in their rocky relationship.

[guppie]

Totally amazed
This letter is in response to the recent Courier articles concerning the 48 Hours episode that televised pictures and videos from the Dirksmeyer murder case.
I am totally amazed that The Courier would take issue with material that is still part of an ongoing criminal investigation being released to a media source.
This was not your stance when you chose to print unsubstantiated third-party hearsay provided to you by the Russellville Police Department concerning a rape allegation case a year ago. What you printed in those articles was part of ongoing criminal investigation that was not subject to FOI. Yet, when questioned by my attorney, The Courier’s response was that since the Russellville Police Department provided the information, you had the right to print it.
You may recall the prosecuting attorney did not file charges in the rape case because his investigation showed that the accusations were found to be untrue. But the damage was already done to those individuals named in the article. I am well aware that a subsequent libel/slander lawsuit against The Courier was thrown out by a local court.
But what about your interpretation of common ethics and rights of individuals not to have their name dragged through the paper before any actual charges were ever filed (and never filed)?
There was nothing ethical about it. Now that 48 Hours has televised pictures and videos they were not supposed to have access to, is The Courier upset that these items were improperly provided to CBS, or that The Courier was not provided equal access to the same pictures and videos? To me it looks more like sour grapes on the part of The Courier rather than your heartfelt concern for others’ privacy being compromised.
Dan Huckabay
Dover

http://couriernews.com/letters.php

meh

just because the DA didn't have enough evidence to proceed with a rape charge does not mean it's "untrue."
but let's see the other relevant point here aside from the possible rape...
KJ apparently WATCHED this go on! rape or no rape, that is just plain sick.
someone, a few days ago claimed that there was a "rebuttal" on this voyeurism but never provided any other info to prove their point. did they?

[guppie]

I guess I figured that if she had taken his key away, that he watched where she put it and retrieved it.

Yeah, the text message to him that morning is a puzzler, I used to think that he had also taken her phone and had texted himself. But I had to quit trying to make things fit Kevin and just look at what Kevin fitted. (Does that make any sense?) Not sure that Nona would have been able to call for help, even if the phone had been intact; I've never read anything to indicate that she wasn't dead right there, that she tried to crawl away or anything.

And I suppose there is the possibility that Kevin and Nona had fought so often, that the morning text was just the beginning of the next phase in their rocky relationship.


as we see so often, abused women cling to their abuser. it isn't unusual for them to stay (in and out) for years and years. i just thought she might have remained upset with him a little longer than overnight. but i guess her rebound time was pretty short on this one.

[lorettalockhorn]

just because the DA didn't have enough evidence to proceed with a rape charge does not mean it's "untrue."
but let's see the other relevant point here aside from the possible rape...
KJ apparently WATCHED this go on! rape or no rape, that is just plain sick.
someone, a few days ago claimed that there was a "rebuttal" on this voyeurism but never provided any other info to prove their point. did they?


1) I just find it interesting that someone with the same last name as the person who started the ball rolling on the alleged rape is complaining about The Courier at all, especially since Chelsea Huckaby apparently hasn't been held accountable for starting the business to begin with if there was no truth to the incident as she reported it to the victim/cousin. 2) I find it interesting that when The Courier was quoting the defense and naming Jeremy Martin as a suspect in Nona's murder, Mr. Huckaby didn't see fit to complain in a letter to the editor. He is very selective about whose reputation he gives a rat's patootie about. 3) I guess I still hold RPD more accountable than The Courier for relating the story to begin with; why was the information in an open investigation accessible to anyone?

It's one thing to be looking over your shoulder for an indicted murderer who is walking free in your community. And it's another to have the likes of Whiteside and Simmons engaged in such behavior, apparently with the support and blessings of their parents, not to mention someone like CH who could have put a stop to the matter that night. I don't have a problem with The Courier having printed the incident. I'll assume that RPD has put the kibosh on "not for publication" matters being available to publishers. Haven't found anything anywhere that indicates that there was a rebuttal by anyone involved in the incident.

[lorettalockhorn]

as we see so often, abused women cling to their abuser. it isn't unusual for them to stay (in and out) for years and years. i just thought she might have remained upset with him a little longer than overnight. but i guess her rebound time was pretty short on this one.

Hey, I don't know that that's what happened. They had been together for a long time, 1/4 of their lives. It would be difficult to break up once and for all at any time, I'm sure.

[hawgustusgloop]

just because the DA didn't have enough evidence to proceed with a rape charge does not mean it's "untrue."
but let's see the other relevant point here aside from the possible rape...
KJ apparently WATCHED this go on! rape or no rape, that is just plain sick.
someone, a few days ago claimed that there was a "rebuttal" on this voyeurism but never provided any other info to prove their point. did they?

Well, Mr. Huckabay just totally lied about the accusations being found to be untrue, as far as I know. That goes right along with the LIE posted here before that the alleged victim recanted. The way I understood it, the accused admitted to everything but drugging/raping the accuser, so it would be tough to come up with any solid evidence. A lot could have happened since then, so I could be wrong.

[lorettalockhorn]

Well, Mr. Huckabay just totally lied about the accusations being found to be untrue, as far as I know. That goes right along with the LIE posted here before that the alleged victim recanted. The way I understood it, the accused admitted to everything but drugging/raping the accuser, so it would be tough to come up with any solid evidence. A lot could have happened since then, so I could be wrong.


Big difference in untrue and unprosecutable.

[hawgustusgloop]

Suppose you arrive at the door with others; the vics car is there but no answer at the door. There would be no reason to panic or be alarmed at that point; perhaps she just went shopping and left with someone else. There would be no reason to use a key, even if you had one, to get in - just because there was no answer, especially if you had people with you. That would show you anticipate a problem. No answer ususally means - no one is home. However, should there be a way to peer in the back sliding door and see a body lying on the floor, then you have your reason. The perp knew the victim kept a stick in the door, so it had to be removed - in order to enter through the back UPON SEEING A BODY. Since he knew the stick was always kept there - he would not have forced the door open - assuming the stick was in place and entry could not be done through that door. However, the door was forced open even when locked (with no stick there) - Jones did it and RPD did it. The question: How did Jones know he could force open that door if there was always a stick kept there ? How did he know unless he removed it earlier? IMO the person who did this knew he had to get back in and have a reason to go in. Who else would think to remove the stick and take it with them..........who else would care ?

Bumpity bump bump bump.....I love the reasoning behind this ancient post.

I like lorettalockhorn's theory, too. I guess it requires you to believe Kevin was a little more sinister than any other theory, but why not? This dude allegedly installed a program on his computer that would allow him to read Nona's emails! I am sure a lot of jealous boyfriends/girlfriends would be tempted to take a peek at their loved one's emails or maybe a note left lying around, but you have to be practically stalking someone to go to the trouble of putting something on your computer to intentionally spy on him or her. I wonder how often Nona used that sliding door? If she used it a lot (say, to let her cats in or out), then she probably would have noticed if the stick were missing, even if it was only missing for one night/morning. However, if she never used that door, she probably would never have known it was missing if Kevin took it.

[lorettalockhorn]

Bumpity bump bump bump.....I love the reasoning behind this ancient post.

I like lorettalockhorn's theory, too. I guess it requires you to believe Kevin was a little more sinister than any other theory, but why not? This dude allegedly installed a program on his computer that would allow him to read Nona's emails! I am sure a lot of jealous boyfriends/girlfriends would be tempted to take a peek at their loved one's emails or maybe a note left lying around, but you have to be practically stalking someone to go to the trouble of putting something on your computer to intentionally spy on him or her. I wonder how often Nona used that sliding door? If she used it a lot (say, to let her cats in or out), then she probably would have noticed if the stick were missing, even if it was only missing for one night/morning. However, if she never used that door, she probably would never have known it was missing if Kevin took it.

To me, the longer that Nona lay undiscovered, the better for a stranger killer. But Kevin needs for her to be found while his alibi is still fresh in everyone's minds. He wasn't antsy that night because Nona wasn't answering his calls, he was antsy because her body hadn't been found.

[Brown hound]

[QUOTE=Brown hound;9091629]

You mentioned a rebuttal yesterday(?), were you able to find a link? I don't remember one way back when.

I'm sorry, rebuttal was the wrong word. It should have been retraction. Can someone please help me on this one? The article was several days later, and hidden in the first section. I only remember it so well because it was the hot topic at our lunch discussion that day( we actually got in trouble, because the opinions were so LOUD). I will have to paraphrase, but it stated that there was no rape, that it was consentual, and that no one watched. There were some that wanted them to be charged, regardless of what the article said. I was more concerned with how someone could report such a horrible event with such clarity, ruining lives, and nothing happens to her when it was false. Can anyone say "Duke Lacrosse?" I'm sure this will get some fingers typing at warp speed. Just playing Devil's advocate. BTW- was she the alleged victim's cousin? I only brought this up, because it was discussed as evidence as to how bad those boys are, yet it was false.

[lorettalockhorn]

Found these two stories:

http://couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=13515&Search=alleged%20rape

http://couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=13546&Search=alleged%20rape

Don't find any retractions.

[Brown hound]

I'll call the Courier next week and see if I can get a copy. It was never on the online Courier. The article was read at our lunch break, which promted a heated discussion. There were texts from the alleged victim icluded.

[guppie]

1) I just find it interesting that someone with the same last name as the person who started the ball rolling on the alleged rape is complaining about The Courier at all, especially since Chelsea Huckaby apparently hasn't been held accountable for starting the business to begin with if there was no truth to the incident as she reported it to the victim/cousin. 2) I find it interesting that when The Courier was quoting the defense and naming Jeremy Martin as a suspect in Nona's murder, Mr. Huckaby didn't see fit to complain in a letter to the editor. He is very selective about whose reputation he gives a rat's patootie about. 3) I guess I still hold RPD more accountable than The Courier for relating the story to begin with; why was the information in an open investigation accessible to anyone?

It's one thing to be looking over your shoulder for an indicted murderer who is walking free in your community. And it's another to have the likes of Whiteside and Simmons engaged in such behavior, apparently with the support and blessings of their parents, not to mention someone like CH who could have put a stop to the matter that night. I don't have a problem with The Courier having printed the incident. I'll assume that RPD has put the kibosh on "not for publication" matters being available to publishers. Haven't found anything anywhere that indicates that there was a rebuttal by anyone involved in the incident.

yeah, i saw the last name. is that CH's father? anyway, if it is, maybe he is upset that his daughter would see that go on and not call for help. it makes her look bad too, ya know. if it is her dad, maybe he is upset that his child would be a part of that and didn't want anyone to know. then the Courier reported it. what huckaby should be upset about is who CH is friends with. guilty by association mean anything? how bout that you are the company you keep?

[guppie]

Big difference in untrue and unprosecutable.


yes, miss loretta. you said it better than i did!

[lorettalockhorn]

I'll call the Courier next week and see if I can get a copy. It was never on the online Courier. The article was read at our lunch break, which promted a heated discussion. There were texts from the alleged victim icluded.

Thanks, Brown hound! I read The Courier pretty carefully; cannot believe that I missed a retraction about anything, let alone about anything to do with the players in the murder case.

Did the article(s) also feature the texts that KJ allegedly made to CH while the alleged rape was going on?

Oh, and I'm curious as to what The Courier actually retracted. Did they misreport something? Add something to the police report? Misquote someone?

[guppie]

Bumpity bump bump bump.....I love the reasoning behind this ancient post.

I like lorettalockhorn's theory, too. I guess it requires you to believe Kevin was a little more sinister than any other theory, but why not? This dude allegedly installed a program on his computer that would allow him to read Nona's emails! I am sure a lot of jealous boyfriends/girlfriends would be tempted to take a peek at their loved one's emails or maybe a note left lying around, but you have to be practically stalking someone to go to the trouble of putting something on your computer to intentionally spy on him or her. I wonder how often Nona used that sliding door? If she used it a lot (say, to let her cats in or out), then she probably would have noticed if the stick were missing, even if it was only missing for one night/morning. However, if she never used that door, she probably would never have known it was missing if Kevin took it.

yes, the reasoning in that old post is sensible. and since you mentioned jealousy, this little item REALLY creeped me out and is so telling. while his girlfriend laid there dead a few feet away and he had her blood all over him, he was looking through her greeting cards on the table!!! OMG
they showed those cards plain as day in 48 hrs...ewwww!!!

[guppie]

To me, the longer that Nona lay undiscovered, the better for a stranger killer. But Kevin needs for her to be found while his alibi is still fresh in everyone's minds. He wasn't antsy that night because Nona wasn't answering his calls, he was antsy because her body hadn't been found.

how freaking lucky is this guy to leave her that many hrs and not have her body found by someone else?! that still amazes me. (if he did this...cough cough) for his plan to work, he had to be the one to "discover" nona's body, espec if he planted the wrapper then. and he had to be the one to find her if he was going to put blood on his hands and face to cover traces left. and if anyone else had gotten to her before he did, he could not have accomplished these things. and most importantly, he couldn't explain away his prints on things if they were there from the killing(the BULB).

[Amy]

So, to rehash. KJ says, there was a break-in, but he KNEW there was none, as HE had break-in himself to gain access. If there HAD been a break-in, they could very well have gotten in thru that.

He KNOWS there is always a stick in the sliding glass door. So, WHY would he even ATTEMPT to get in that way? Seems like he would think he would have to break the glass in the door, as one knows it is highly unlikely that one could dislodge a stick that is placed for the very purpose of not allowing the door to be opened in any way.

Another point posted above that keeps hitting--the girl was supposed to be at school taking exams for at least part of the day. Now, why in the world would he be concerned that she wasn't home? It would be reasonable for her to have gone home for lunch, and maybe returned to campus for some extra study. Or, maybe not gone home at all between exams. Again, there didn't seem to be any rational reason for KJ to be all concerned that he couldn't contact her. One would certainly assume it would be proper for cell phones to be turned off during class AND exams, or if she was in a library.

And, was it the norm for him to holler at a bud to check on Nona anytime he wasn't able to reach her at home when he tho't he should? Did he really think RW would maybe go around to the sliding doors when she didn't answer the front door--so perhaps his good bud would be the one to find her body?

Who knows? Had she actually lived and gone to her afternoon exam, she might even have gone to some hang-out with some of her friends/classmates to celebrate the exam being over.

It's not like he was saying they had a specific date for a specific time, that he would worry that she wasn't anwering calls. Even then, if they had specific plans, he would not have needed to send someone to check her out, as HE would have shown up for the sceduled date.

It's still all hinky to me. And, the more I hear and read, the more I still think he got away with murder. Still, it will be interesting to see what the spin is about the DNA on the condom.

[lorettalockhorn]

how freaking lucky is this guy to leave her that many hrs and not have her body found by someone else?! that still amazes me. (if he did this...cough cough) for his plan to work, he had to be the one to "discover" nona's body, espec if he planted the wrapper then. and he had to be the one to find her if he was going to put blood on his hands and face to cover traces left. and if anyone else had gotten to her before he did, he could not have accomplished these things. and most importantly, he couldn't explain away his prints on things if they were there from the killing(the BULB).

Kevin probably spent a lot of time at Nona's, so it would make sense that his prints would be all over the place, unless they were in blood. I think he was in such a frenzy when he killed her that he didn't realize that he left a print. When it came to what happened after the murder, I think he didn't want to say that he could have touched the bulb at that time, because he didn't want to report anything averse to what JJ told police. Whether or not he touched the bulb would rely very much on her testimony and he couldn't make her out to be a liar after she told LE that she didn't see him touch the bulb.

[Brown hound]

Thanks, Brown hound! I read The Courier pretty carefully; cannot believe that I missed a retraction about anything, let alone about anything to do with the players in the murder case.

Did the article(s) also feature the texts that KJ allegedly made to CH while the alleged rape was going on?

Oh, and I'm curious as to what The Courier actually retracted. Did they misreport something? Add something to the police report? Misquote someone?

I will get it sometime next week. Thank you for the sarcasm, it did not go unnoticed! You are a gentlewoman and a scholar.

[lorettalockhorn]

I will get it sometime next week. Thank you for the sarcasm, it did not go unnoticed! You are a gentlewoman and a scholar.

For once I wasn't really intending sarcasm. It was reported that CH and KJ were texting while the alleged rape was ongoing, but I never saw the text of those texts reported. Was sincerely curious if those were reported in the retraction. I am truly looking forward to seeing the content of the retraction; having seen The Courier acknowledge mistakes in the past under "correction(s)", but don't remember ever seeing an actual retraction ever.

How do you know that I'm not a gentleman? And I am hardly a scholar. Are you being sarcastic? :hat: No matter, we just want to see whatever it is you have that we don't. (And puhleez don't take that the wrong way. LOL)

[hawgustusgloop]

I will get it sometime next week. Thank you for the sarcasm, it did not go unnoticed! You are a gentlewoman and a scholar.

Cool! Although you might find some type of clarification, I seriously doubt the existence of a retraction. I'll be waiting for it with the same enthusiasm with which I am anticipating JustCallMeNora's audio links.

[hawgustusgloop]

that piece
was on the left-hand
column with the weather...
so it might not make it online...
here it is:
"In the Jan. 14 article regarding 5th Judicial District Prosecuting Attorney David Gibbon’s decision not to file charges in an alleged rape that occurred Dec. 28, one part of the accuser’s allegations was not addressed.
Although suspect Jeffrey Simmons confirmed to Arkansas State Police investigators that Kevin Jones and Ryan Whiteside were in the room while Simmons had sex with the accuser, according to the Jan. 12 letter written by Gibbons, “there is no evidence at all Ryan Whiteside or Kevin Jones, both of whom were also mentioned in the initial incident report, had any sexual contact with the complainant at any time during the 28th and 29th of December.”
The alleged incident occurred in Whiteside’s North Greenwich home.
Jones is accused of murdering Nona Dirksmeyer on Dec. 15, 2005. Whiteside is expected to testify at Jones’ trial, which is scheduled to begin July 9. "

I'm no Courier archivist, but I think this may be the passage to which Brown Hound was referring. I definitely would not call this a retraction. I will still be waiting to see what Brown Hound sniffs out from the Courier, though. And I'm still waiting for those links, JustCallMeNora.

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm no Courier archivist, but I think this may be the passage to which Brown Hound was referring. I definitely would not call this a retraction. I will still be waiting to see what Brown Hound sniffs out from the Courier, though. And I'm still waiting for those links, JustCallMeNora.

Thanks for posting, my beauty! Oh wait. I'm not sure where the weather is posted in The Courier.

Sheesh, I was never under the impression that KJ and RW had sex or were inferred to have had sex with the complainant, never glommed that they did from The Courier articles. Was just wondering if since The Courier had access to the texts from the plaintiff to the accused, if maybe they also had access to the texts between CH and KJ.

Stay tuned for more As The Churl Turns.

[lorettalockhorn]

Just watched 48 Hours from last week again, and couldn't help but take note of how seldom/little KJ maintained eye contact with Richard Schlesinger. Also at one point, Kevin tells him that he doesn't recall ever touching the lightbulb, but later Schlesinger remarks (about the tackiness) something along the lines of Kevin was telling the truth about having touched the bulb during his attempt to revive Nona. Huh? Was that just bad editing? Did Kevin actually admit to RS that he did indeed touch the lightbulb, but off camera? Did I miss a segment? Or is Schlesinger just some sort of mumbo jumbo man who groks what Kevin really meant?

Still find it interesting that what with all Kevin's talk about being destined to marry Nona, that he didn't tell Schlesinger that he was planning to propose that night.

pfft

[guppie]

I will get it sometime next week. Thank you for the sarcasm, it did not go unnoticed! You are a gentlewoman and a scholar.


THX brown hound. you give us the other side. we need both perspectives. please provide anything you read about recantation. i never saw that in what i have read. waiting to hear what you find!

[guppie]

THX brown hound. you give us the other side. we need both perspectives. please provide anything you read about recantation. i never saw that in what i have read. waiting to hear what you find!

i was meaning THX for getting info to support your argument, not thx for pickin on loretta....that came out wrong! ha (i waited too long to edit, so i had to repost!)

[guppie]

Just watched 48 Hours from last week again, and couldn't help but take note of how seldom/little KJ maintained eye contact with Richard Schlesinger. Also at one point, Kevin tells him that he doesn't recall ever touching the lightbulb, but later Schlesinger remarks (about the tackiness) something along the lines of Kevin was telling the truth about having touched the bulb during his attempt to revive Nona. Huh? Was that just bad editing? Did Kevin actually admit to RS that he did indeed touch the lightbulb, but off camera? Did I miss a segment? Or is Schlesinger just some sort of mumbo jumbo man who groks what Kevin really meant?

Still find it interesting that what with all Kevin's talk about being destined to marry Nona, that he didn't tell Schlesinger that he was planning to propose that night.

pfft

you know how on DVD's you can see the edited out scenes? well, i wish that we could see what was edited out of that 48 hrs "mystery" show! although, it still didn't seem too much of a mystery to me or those i know who watched it. IMO it seems that in their research, 48 hrs would have gotten info on not only nona's other partners but also KJ's. my guess is they chose to edit things like that out so it would be a "mystery." also, did you find it to be a "controlling statement" by KJ when richard asked him about marrying nona, he responded, "i didn't see it any other way." i took that to mean if he couldn't have her, no one would.

[christina]

Guppie- you can go back, good suggestion by someone else, and read my reports during the trial.
As a new one to the case, will you share what piece of evidence pushed you toward thinking Jones guilty? If you answered this prior, please excuse me.

[upallnight]

Loretta's stick theory is that he took it with him the night before; his plan was to sneak into the apartment, through the back door and do some snooping while Nona was in her test, but the workmen delayed him and he wasn't out of there when she got home and caught him. I think it's even possible that they argued the night before and she made him return his door key. But he knew that he could bump the door open if the stick was gone. He could have retrieved his key during the hysteria, before EMS and LE arrived.

I think so also, my husband and I was talking about this and the stick must have been taken the night before. If he left and she was upstairs, she would not have known. It was late so no one would have saw him with that stick more than likely. I also believe they argued. Still can not see him and his Mom talking so long about just school/grades. There must have been more to it. That is what bothers me. If she knew his state of mind that early morning, she must know more now and possibly before and have some suspicions if he did kill Nona. If she did speak to him about him about Nona and their relationship etc., apparently she does not know him as well as she thinks she does, or maybe thinks only the "kinder, gentler" Kevin per say would come out once he saw her again. I still think that print on the light bulb was made during the attack/murder. Seems to me like the blood on that light bulb would have had more the consistancy of the blood Nona was lying in if it was made during discover, it seemed thinner on the bulb, as if the blood was fresh when it made contact with that bulb. Don't make sense to me. As much blood as he had on him, a thicker looking blood. Seems like the blood print would have been thicker if he touched it at discovery and not such a thin layer. That's just my opinion.
I think the stick is history and he probably got rid of it well in advance of the attack. If Nona noticed it was gone and no one else had been in her apartment, there you have her maybe asking him why it was missing and only him and her there and why. I would think he damn well knew her schedule the next day. Also, there is no way he could have brought the stick back with Mom sitting next to him. If he knew she was suppose to go to New China with little sister, why did he not just pull in there before going to her house. It was right on the way to her house. Oh, but of course he may have known all along her car was at home, just the reason he needed to have RW see the car, knock on the door-no answer, KJ and Mom arrives-front door locked, go immediately to sliding back door (no security stick)-RW (per KJ) "dude there she is", open the door-run in to end up getting blood on him, etc., touch a greeting card, etc., put his bloody had out to shake Gibbons had & withdraw because oh, he can't do that. But he can touch the card, try to move Nona around after being told not to etc., I agree with L about planting the condum. I think if he did it he just needed a second to plant that condom, the rest he may have thought would be looked at as a natural response. (I don't think it was, but that's just my O) For whatever reason maybe he thought that condum sealed the deal so to say. I did not even see any blood on his pants, he had his hands in his pocket at one point. No blood on them, but there was on the light bulb, and the print matched Kevin. She was stiff, why the heck even try to move her, even if she had not been, don't move her, you could hurt her worse. KJ is not stupid, he knew all this. He never even said, that I know of, he was worried that the attacker may still be inside Nona's apartment. Sure you would run to your loved one. But seems to me you would do things within reason based on the situation at hand. He never even mentioned being leary of the attacker and his Mom was there, I would have a auto protect shield for my Mom in that situation. She did not just fall, no accident and I am surprised Janice never seemed afraid of attacker being inside. Especially being dark inside. Maybe they thought 3 of us, 1 attacker, I don't know, just strange. Believe me I know the concern should have been for Nona, but not one of them ever thought they may be in danger. There call to 911-Janice said accident. I wondered why 911 would have not alerted them that the prep., may still be around. But then again she said accident. She did not know what kind of accident is what she said when they asked her what kind of accident. I just don't think I would have said accident, clearly it was not accident, clearly it was no accident! I do not think it was by accident KJ was the one who found her either. I will be so shocked if they ever prove otherwise. God, I hate feeling this strong about it but I do. Maybe they will prove otherwise, then I will feel bad for feeling the way I do now. I keep waiting for this DNA match/the someone who the defense is trying to lead us all to believe is the real killer--nothing, nothing, nothing and still waiting! This defense needs to get it together and prove their theory or shut up! IMO they are doing KJ and his family no good with their latest offerings, just makes him look more like the killer in my mind.

[upallnight]

Bumpity bump bump bump.....I love the reasoning behind this ancient post.

I like lorettalockhorn's theory, too. I guess it requires you to believe Kevin was a little more sinister than any other theory, but why not? This dude allegedly installed a program on his computer that would allow him to read Nona's emails! I am sure a lot of jealous boyfriends/girlfriends would be tempted to take a peek at their loved one's emails or maybe a note left lying around, but you have to be practically stalking someone to go to the trouble of putting something on your computer to intentionally spy on him or her. I wonder how often Nona used that sliding door? If she used it a lot (say, to let her cats in or out), then she probably would have noticed if the stick were missing, even if it was only missing for one night/morning. However, if she never used that door, she probably would never have known it was missing if Kevin took it.

OMG, I did not know this. I have heard alot of things, but not this. That is a stalker if true. Wish they could have proved he did this in court. Needed more said/proved in court on KJ. My Gosh, why does things seem to come out later. That is not normal, sounds like obsessed beyond reasoning to me. Besides, why would he want to be with her if she did not want to be with him. Then again, everyone is not of normal behavior etc., that is just wrong.

[upallnight]

Bumpity bump bump bump.....I love the reasoning behind this ancient post.

I like lorettalockhorn's theory, too. I guess it requires you to believe Kevin was a little more sinister than any other theory, but why not? This dude allegedly installed a program on his computer that would allow him to read Nona's emails! I am sure a lot of jealous boyfriends/girlfriends would be tempted to take a peek at their loved one's emails or maybe a note left lying around, but you have to be practically stalking someone to go to the trouble of putting something on your computer to intentionally spy on him or her. I wonder how often Nona used that sliding door? If she used it a lot (say, to let her cats in or out), then she probably would have noticed if the stick were missing, even if it was only missing for one night/morning. However, if she never used that door, she probably would never have known it was missing if Kevin took it.


I wonder how those cats acted around KJ after the murder, if they was in the apartment when she was murdered, I don't remember if ever said they was inside or not.

[lorettalockhorn]

I think so also, my husband and I was talking about this and the stick must have been taken the night before. If he left and she was upstairs, she would not have known. It was late so no one would have saw him with that stick more than likely. I also believe they argued. Still can not see him and his Mom talking so long about just school/grades. There must have been more to it. That is what bothers me. If she knew his state of mind that early morning, she must know more now and possibly before and have some suspicions if he did kill Nona. If she did speak to him about him about Nona and their relationship etc., apparently she does not know him as well as she thinks she does, or maybe thinks only the "kinder, gentler" Kevin per say would come out once he saw her again. I still think that print on the light bulb was made during the attack/murder. Seems to me like the blood on that light bulb would have had more the consistancy of the blood Nona was lying in if it was made during discover, it seemed thinner on the bulb, as if the blood was fresh when it made contact with that bulb. Don't make sense to me. As much blood as he had on him, a thicker looking blood. Seems like the blood print would have been thicker if he touched it at discovery and not such a thin layer. That's just my opinion.
I think the stick is history and he probably got rid of it well in advance of the attack. If Nona noticed it was gone and no one else had been in her apartment, there you have her maybe asking him why it was missing and only him and her there and why. I would think he damn well knew her schedule the next day. Also, there is no way he could have brought the stick back with Mom sitting next to him. If he knew she was suppose to go to New China with little sister, why did he not just pull in there before going to her house. It was right on the way to her house. Oh, but of course he may have known all along her car was at home, just the reason he needed to have RW see the car, knock on the door-no answer, KJ and Mom arrives-front door locked, go immediately to sliding back door (no security stick)-RW (per KJ) "dude there she is", open the door-run in to end up getting blood on him, etc., touch a greeting card, etc., put his bloody had out to shake Gibbons had & withdraw because oh, he can't do that. But he can touch the card, try to move Nona around after being told not to etc., I agree with L about planting the condum. I think if he did it he just needed a second to plant that condom, the rest he may have thought would be looked at as a natural response. (I don't think it was, but that's just my O) For whatever reason maybe he thought that condum sealed the deal so to say. I did not even see any blood on his pants, he had his hands in his pocket at one point. No blood on them, but there was on the light bulb, and the print matched Kevin. She was stiff, why the heck even try to move her, even if she had not been, don't move her, you could hurt her worse. KJ is not stupid, he knew all this. He never even said, that I know of, he was worried that the attacker may still be inside Nona's apartment. Sure you would run to your loved one. But seems to me you would do things within reason based on the situation at hand. He never even mentioned being leary of the attacker and his Mom was there, I would have a auto protect shield for my Mom in that situation. She did not just fall, no accident and I am surprised Janice never seemed afraid of attacker being inside. Especially being dark inside. Maybe they thought 3 of us, 1 attacker, I don't know, just strange. Believe me I know the concern should have been for Nona, but not one of them ever thought they may be in danger. There call to 911-Janice said accident. I wondered why 911 would have not alerted them that the prep., may still be around. But then again she said accident. She did not know what kind of accident is what she said when they asked her what kind of accident. I just don't think I would have said accident, clearly it was not accident, clearly it was no accident! I do not think it was by accident KJ was the one who found her either. I will be so shocked if they ever prove otherwise. God, I hate feeling this strong about it but I do. Maybe they will prove otherwise, then I will feel bad for feeling the way I do now. I keep waiting for this DNA match/the someone who the defense is trying to lead us all to believe is the real killer--nothing, nothing, nothing and still waiting! This defense needs to get it together and prove their theory or shut up! IMO they are doing KJ and his family no good with their latest offerings, just makes him look more like the killer in my mind.

Oh gosh, that is so true about New China, it is right on the way. (I gotta get out more!)

I believe that the reasoning behind touching the card was to find Nona's address, although that doesn't make sense to me, the corner of Inglewood and 12th should have been enough to get ALS to the scene, and I believe that someone did say that they were waved in. I also believe that the 911 operator asked JJ "what kind of accident, ma'am" and she replied that she didn't know. Once KJ told the 911 operator that he thought Nona was dead and there was no pulse, I don't understand why they weren't told to wait outside. None of what happened on discovery made sense to me.

[lorettalockhorn]

I wonder how those cats acted around KJ after the murder, if they was in the apartment when she was murdered, I don't remember if ever said they was inside or not.

I wish Sonya Fitzpatrick could do a psychic reading on the cat(s). (Think that at least one was inside the apartment during the murder.)

[TJEddie]

A little background info on Jack McQuary, the special prosecutor recently assigned to this case:

http://www.salinecountyvoice.com/news/2007/1212/Front_Page/004.html

He notes that, depending on the nature of the case, he may or may not use the resources of the local prosecutor's office to assist him in his work. Does anyone know if the current review/investigation is being run out of Russellville or Little Rock?

[optimumprimal78]

loretta,

I like your picture (sarcasm).

I guess he decided to show what good of a life he leads and is now proving that he is the good kid that everyone knows he really is.

What an honest wholesome guy.

(end sarcasm)

Does someone have barf bag?

[lorettalockhorn]

loretta,

I like your picture (sarcasm).

I guess he decided to show what good of a life he leads and is now proving that he is the good kid that everyone knows he really is.

What an honest wholesome guy.

(end sarcasm)

Does someone have barf bag?

Hey OP! Long time no! :seeya:

Apparently, he doesn't seem to have problems finding a party or anyone to party with. If my daughter was hanging out with KJ, I would buy her a taser. Just in case.

[christina]

A little background info on Jack McQuary, the special prosecutor recently assigned to this case:

http://www.salinecountyvoice.com/news/2007/1212/Front_Page/004.html

He notes that, depending on the nature of the case, he may or may not use the resources of the local prosecutor's office to assist him in his work. Does anyone know if the current review/investigation is being run out of Russellville or Little Rock?

Thanks for the link/info. I can't imagine he would use local investigators/resources for his case.
I had a thought this weekend as I read through a few posts here, I wish the judge had allowed the trial to be filmed. Of course cameras still don't catch everything-like a juror's face or a family members reaction, but everyone would have been able to see/hear the witnesses at least.

[optimumprimal78]

I just had a couple of quick thoughts about the 48 hours show.

1. When they were showing the people being interviewed by police, they showed someone with a blurred face. Does anyone have a clue as to who that is/was? And why was their face not shown?

2. CH was shown also being interviewed. We know that Nona and CH had a close friendship (supposedly). Why didn't they show more of that interview and I wonder what CH thought of being shown (i.e. if she was so close to Nona as she once claimed then why wasn't she one being featured instead of the other beauty queen)? Furthermore, why wasn't RW shown (unless I missed him)?

[guppie]

just lettin ya'll know that i am having sporadic internet outages in my area and i may not be able to converse with you as i would like. they are supposed to fix it weds. we'll see! when it comes back on (like this) it usually only stays on a few min. ugh

[CSOKC]

I wondered about why they picked that girl too. She said that she got Nona into pageants, but were they really close?

[lorettalockhorn]

I wondered about why they picked that girl too. She said that she got Nona into pageants, but were they really close?

I assumed that since the name of the installment was "Who Killed the Beauty Queen?" that Adrielle was part of that angle. OR maybe CBS is aware that so many of the players in this case haven't exactly steered clear of the spotlight and wanted to avoid using them on camera, as spokespeople.

OP, a still photo of RW was shown in the segment outlining that he was in the area delivering pizzas and Kevin asked him to check on Nona while he and JJ were enroute.

[jonikay]

You would never guess that the picture was RW unless you know him. He looks SO different now and did at the trial. Completely different.

[lorettalockhorn]

Jonikay, maybe that was a senior picture from the (RHS?) yearbook that CBS used?

[hawgustusgloop]

Jonikay, maybe that was a senior picture from the (RHS?) yearbook that CBS used?

It certainly looked like a yearbook photo. Super dorky. Perhaps he should file a lawsuit? God help us all if MY old senior yearbook photo was shown on national TV, though. Maybe it came from the same yearbook as that photo they showed of Kevin and Nona. If my eyes did not deceive me, that yearbook pic of Kevin and Nona was taken by Jeff Simmons.

[guppie]

It certainly looked like a yearbook photo. Super dorky. Perhaps he should file a lawsuit? God help us all if MY old senior yearbook photo was shown on national TV, though. Maybe it came from the same yearbook as that photo they showed of Kevin and Nona. If my eyes did not deceive me, that yearbook pic of Kevin and Nona was taken by Jeff Simmons.

how ironic. i saw that too. simmons, alleged rapist, took that pic of nona & KJ. gets weirder and weirder, doesn't it?

[guppie]

I assumed that since the name of the installment was "Who Killed the Beauty Queen?" that Adrielle was part of that angle. OR maybe CBS is aware that so many of the players in this case haven't exactly steered clear of the spotlight and wanted to avoid using them on camera, as spokespeople.

OP, a still photo of RW was shown in the segment outlining that he was in the area delivering pizzas and Kevin asked him to check on Nona while he and JJ were enroute.


what? you mean 48 Hrs wouldn't wanna interview alleged rapists/voyeurs and underage drinkers for their show? i can't imagine why???

[hawgustusgloop]

It was totally ridiculous the way 48 Hours made it look like the whole case and the entire reasoning for suspecting Kevin was based solely on the palm print. It would have been nice for them to at least hint that there were some serious inconsistencies (LIES) in his statement, and it would have been even better if Kevin attempted to explain them. And like lorettalockhorn said, there was a perfect opportunity for Kevin to mention that he planned to propose that night, yet he didn't say anything about it.

[FDInLaw]

. . . was a total farce. Carol spent a good amount of time during her interviews stating problems that Kevin and Nona were having and not a peep of it made it on the show. Also, the "ghoulish" statement was sooooooo unfair. Ghoulish? Look at the photos of Kevin. . . he practically bathed in Nona's blood!!! :cuss:

[christina]

If I can be so nosy- where did you all, loretta, csokc and hawg, get those pictures? I am assuming they are of a young Jones but I can't make them out for sure. Are they on one of those myplace or the like that kids get on?

[CSOKC]

If I can be so nosy- where did you all, loretta, csokc and hawg, get those pictures? I am assuming they are of a young Jones but I can't make them out for sure. Are they on one of those myplace or the like that kids get on?
They were on a facebook group. A guy that partied with Kevin put them up. I just checked and the admin deleted the pictures.

[hawgustusgloop]

If I can be so nosy- where did you all, loretta, csokc and hawg, get those pictures? I am assuming they are of a young Jones but I can't make them out for sure. Are they on one of those myplace or the like that kids get on?

A young Jones? I guess he is young compared to me, but these pictures appear to be somewhat recent, post-makeover pics. I could be way off, but they look like they were taken in a place of business, where someone would be required to prove he was 21 in order to consume alcohol. Not that I would put it past that crew to flash a fake ID. But then again, he could be drinking apple juice......

[lorettalockhorn]

If I can be so nosy- where did you all, loretta, csokc and hawg, get those pictures? I am assuming they are of a young Jones but I can't make them out for sure. Are they on one of those myplace or the like that kids get on?

How young? Made while Nona was still alive do you think?

[jonikay]

Judging by the jacket, he was probably in Germany for the '72 Olympics at the time this pic was taken.

[CSOKC]

How young? Made while Nona was still alive do you think?
The guy said that he partied with Kevin until he found out "that he was the one that killed Nona". Or something like that. So to me that said they were taken after Nona was killed and the guy just didn't realize who he was hanging around.

[christina]

They were on a facebook group. A guy that partied with Kevin put them up. I just checked and the admin deleted the pictures.

Thanks. Are you saying they are not anywhere to be viewed now- the administrator on facebook deleted them?

[lorettalockhorn]

The four pix have been removed from the Justice for Nona wall at Facebook. Can you tell at all how old he is? Or when those might have been made?

[jonikay]

They had to have been taken fairly recently. You remember what he looked like before, bowl-cut, etc. He looked like a little kid just a few years ago. Now, not so much. I will bet that they were taken within the last year or close to it. Were there pics of RW on that same "wall?" If so, you could judge it by that.

[guppie]

Guppie- you can go back, good suggestion by someone else, and read my reports during the trial.
As a new one to the case, will you share what piece of evidence pushed you toward thinking Jones guilty? If you answered this prior, please excuse me.

these are purely my observations and opinions. i will not even go into the evidence. i will tell you what i observed from kevin himself and his mother. it's a bit long but very worth reading if you know anything about abuse. the minute kevin jones started talking, he jumped off the screen at me. it was so familiar..those words, that tone, that demeanor, that air of entitlement. i've been in a relationship with parallels to theirs. i guess i recognize it when i see and hear it. nona hid her abuse by her father so it is not a stretch that she would also hide abuse by kevin. i hid boyfriend abuse for 5 yrs.

kevin exhibits MANY signs (in his demeanor and what he says) of a verbally abusive person in his interview with 48 hrs and his police questioning videos. verbal abusers do sometimes cross over into physical abusers. they go into rages and have a higher propensity to kill. you can check stats on that.
keep in mind, one of these things alone amount to nothing, but it is the combination of all these that make the clear picture in my mind.

1) when KJ began dating nona she was sort of a weakling, shy, with low self-esteem then she became stronger once she began recovering from her childhood issues, speaking out, and competing in pageants. this changed her for the better, and KJ came across as controlling and he would not have liked that at all
2) abusers prey on the weak and needy and don't like it when they get a backbone and can make it on their own
3) KJ seems highly intellectual. i would bet he was partying and his grades were crappy at that time even though he is clearly smart enough to make A's.
nona was more of the over-acheiver with a drive, and that is detrimental when you are dating an abuser
4) the way he said school was "only an hour & a half away" and had this whatever look on his face when he said it - like he could do whatever he wanted but she could not
5) the way he stated matter of factly "i new i would marry her" & he "didn't see it any other way" ...that is a control statement
6) the hitting of the chair in front of police
7) the way he enunciated his own name in the 911 call
8) he struck me as one who wanted to go to the partying SEC school to do what he pleased and have nona sitting in a small town doing nothing ("do as i say not as i do" mentality)
9) the fact he would have worried about her after such a short time shows control and a stalking mentality
10) his mousy appearance and her increasing beauty with age clearly made her appear out of his league after all these years (once again, alone this would mean nothing to me)
11) claims he didn't know she was seeing other guys, yet obviously he did and was hiding that knowledge
12) he kept going to the police on his own with answers in his pocket ready to go the minute they asked...he answered questions too eagerly & quickly
13) most men like this come from a physically and verbally abusive father and mothers who overcompensate for that by babying and coddling them to an unnatural degree
14) KJ's mother's comments: "he GAVE her confidence" and the way she said, "when nona and kevin were together i saw him as a different person...just a little kinder and sweeter and gentle, because that's the way he always was WITH HER." watch his mother's expression when she says "with her"
as if kevin was another way the rest of the time...not so nice??? i think his mom knows exactly.
15) he came across as selfishly motivated doing this show to get "people stop talking about him and to stop judging him" (classic to abusers)
both he & his mother are more concerned about clearing kevin's name than having a killer brought to justice

i thank God everyday i made it out alive. unfortunately, nona did not. that is why i have found a passion in her case. that is what i saw. and that was all without knowing any of the other allegations re: drugs, voyeurism, public intox, etc. i only found those out after seeing kevin himself on camera. he is his own worst enemy. maybe God feels kevin is in more torment by being out in the world among peers who feel he is guilty than if he were isolated in prison. maybe that is his punishment.

[guppie]

after writing that, i can't sleep. so i got up and have been reading more.

(My mention of 48 hours is tongue in cheek. . . it's obvious they did little or no actual investigating and only had ears for one side of the story.)

FD,
i promise it only seems like that because you are so close to this, like a lot of you are on here. i bet there were hundreds of thousands that viewed that show (guessing). i think there were lots of people who saw kevin the way i did. i asked around to people i know who saw the show. it is good, very good, that they let kevin talk so much. all he did is look worse. and his mother...oh god, i won't even go there. he should have taken the 5th for that interview with 48 hrs! there is a reason attorneys don't want defendants to testify. he is his own worst enemy, and it showed.
can't wait to see him incriminate himself on Dateline. get ready!
when is it airing? i hope i didn't miss it while our cable/internet was having problems.

[guppie]

It was totally ridiculous the way 48 Hours made it look like the whole case and the entire reasoning for suspecting Kevin was based solely on the palm print. It would have been nice for them to at least hint that there were some serious inconsistencies (LIES) in his statement, and it would have been even better if Kevin attempted to explain them. And like lorettalockhorn said, there was a perfect opportunity for Kevin to mention that he planned to propose that night, yet he didn't say anything about it.

why the heck would this jury go on what someone's eye thought a print "appeared" to look like and not what forensic testing showed? the print was not clotted blood, and therefore, was left at the time of death. the end.
if the jurors couldn't go on the mounds of circumstantial evidence, surely they could go on forensics! are they that behind the times? i don't get it. eventually we won't even consider what "eyes see" in court. my grandmother always said, "don't believe anything you hear AS HEARSAY and only half of what you see AS AN EYEWITNESS."
AND I SAY, "GO WITH FORENSICS!"

[Brown hound]

why the heck would this jury go on what someone's eye thought a print "appeared" to look like and not what forensic testing showed? the print was not clotted blood, and therefore, was left at the time of death. the end.
if the jurors couldn't go on the mounds of circumstantial evidence, surely they could go on forensics! are they that behind the times? i don't get it. eventually we won't even consider what "eyes see" in court. my grandmother always said, "don't believe anything you hear AS HEARSAY and only half of what you see AS AN EYEWITNESS."
AND I SAY, "GO WITH FORENSICS!"

I work in an industry dealing with blood every single minute. Trust me when I say that those of us who are professionals know what "tacky" means, and would NEVER confuse it with dried blood. This begs the question, did the RPD change the meaning to fit their scenerio, or do they not know what they were doing? If the blood would have been described by him as "tacky" 5 days later, he has no business running a police department, because he obviously has no skills in observation. Just my opinion.

[sololobo]

why the heck would this jury go on what someone's eye thought a print "appeared" to look like and not what forensic testing showed? the print was not clotted blood, and therefore, was left at the time of death. the end.
if the jurors couldn't go on the mounds of circumstantial evidence, surely they could go on forensics! are they that behind the times? i don't get it. eventually we won't even consider what "eyes see" in court. my grandmother always said, "don't believe anything you hear AS HEARSAY and only half of what you see AS AN EYEWITNESS."
AND I SAY, "GO WITH FORENSICS!"

The print was not tested for coagulation. A retired policeman who bills himself as a forensics expert said he did not observe any signs of coagulation. The defense countered with a state medical examiner. The jury chose to believe the medical examiner over the retired policeman.

[guppie]

I work in an industry dealing with blood every single minute. Trust me when I say that those of us who are professionals know what "tacky" means, and would NEVER confuse it with dried blood. This begs the question, did the RPD change the meaning to fit their scenerio, or do they not know what they were doing? If the blood would have been described by him as "tacky" 5 days later, he has no business running a police department, because he obviously has no skills in observation. Just my opinion.


i was commenting on scientific forensic evidence, which has nothing to do with the competency of the RPD. i am not sure what you mean. the blood on the bulb is not clotted so it was left at TOD. if the police used the wrong word maybe they aren't the authority on crime scene investig, but it should not matter when you have science like we do now. RPD clearly weren't geniuses at this type of scene, but there are forensics that should have proven this case regardless.

[hawgustusgloop]

I work in an industry dealing with blood every single minute. Trust me when I say that those of us who are professionals know what "tacky" means, and would NEVER confuse it with dried blood. This begs the question, did the RPD change the meaning to fit their scenerio, or do they not know what they were doing? If the blood would have been described by him as "tacky" 5 days later, he has no business running a police department, because he obviously has no skills in observation. Just my opinion.

I don't work in the blood industry and I don't trust you, but I would imagine that "tacky" is not a definitive scientific term. It would mean a lot more to me if he stuck his finger in it and said it felt tacky, but he was just looking at it with the naked eye. If the print truly appeared wet, why didn't he say it was "wet"?

BTW, any luck finding that retraction in the Courier?

[hawgustusgloop]

The print was not tested for coagulation. A retired policeman who bills himself as a forensics expert said he did not observe any signs of coagulation. The defense countered with a state medical examiner. The jury chose to believe the medical examiner over the retired policeman.

Wow, "state medical examiner" sounds much more dignified than "retired policeman who bills imself as a forensics expert." To which state medical examiner are you referring? I hope it is not the retired Alabama medical examiner who was for some absurd reason testifying as some kind of blood expert.

[guppie]

The print was not tested for coagulation. A retired policeman who bills himself as a forensics expert said he did not observe any signs of coagulation. The defense countered with a state medical examiner. The jury chose to believe the medical examiner over the retired policeman.

tom bevel, the blood expert, testified and was shown on 48 hrs. he said, "the blood on the bulb on both sides was placed there at the time of the killing rather than some later time." meaning, it was not clotted. i have read that much. if that is being disputed by you, please send me links to your sources. bevel based this theory on the coagulation of that blood through scientific testing, not on someone's words, and it was compared to blood on KJ's hands (clotted).

IMO, take away the mounds of circumstantial evidence, and you are still left with that damning piece of scientific evidence. one again, i believe EYE witness tesmony is the most unreliable testimony of all. we have DNA and forensics now. the jury overlooked that and i don't know why? do you? please inform if my facts are wrong. thanks!

[guppie]

I don't work in the blood industry and I don't trust you, but I would imagine that "tacky" is not a definitive scientific term. It would mean a lot more to me if he stuck his finger in it and said it felt tacky, but he was just looking at it with the naked eye. If the print truly appeared wet, why didn't he say it was "wet"?

BTW, any luck finding that retraction in the Courier?

appearance means nothing when you have forensices.

[guppie]

I work in an industry dealing with blood every single minute. Trust me when I say that those of us who are professionals know what "tacky" means, and would NEVER confuse it with dried blood. This begs the question, did the RPD change the meaning to fit their scenerio, or do they not know what they were doing? If the blood would have been described by him as "tacky" 5 days later, he has no business running a police department, because he obviously has no skills in observation. Just my opinion.

these police officers don't work in "an industry dealing withblood every single minute" like you, so they may not have used the correct wording. no one is saying the RPD were the brightest on this murder case. i mean, i doubt there is much murder around there, so that leaves little experience from them.
on the other hand, the blood expert (obviously indicating experience) has provided the forensic opinion, not the police. and that opinion states the blood was NOT left upon discovering the body. please show you have evidence stating that the blood on the bulb was 1) clotted, 2) matched what was on KJ's hands, and therefore 3) left later, and i will eat crow! tom bevel is who i am basing my belief on as of now.

[lorettalockhorn]

I work in an industry dealing with blood every single minute. Trust me when I say that those of us who are professionals know what "tacky" means, and would NEVER confuse it with dried blood. This begs the question, did the RPD change the meaning to fit their scenerio, or do they not know what they were doing? If the blood would have been described by him as "tacky" 5 days later, he has no business running a police department, because he obviously has no skills in observation. Just my opinion.


Just for the heck of it, can you give us the professional definition of tacky? Just for edification, since none of the jurors were professionals to the best of my knowledge/recollection. (Unless you count the nurse with the tie to Ryan Whiteside.)

Tacky means somewhere between wet and dry to me, both appearance-wise and tactically. But since I believe that the thermostat was lowered to throw off the time of death, I believe that it also delayed the drying time of the blood.

[upallnight]

Here is a link that talks of the trial, not sure if it may be of interest to any of you all but I will post it in case you would like to look over it. It does speak of Jones car and other things. This site has links included for review of original reports.
http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums...php?t9528.html (http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t9528.html)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n3802230.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/07/48hours/main3802230.shtml) This link is the text version of the 48 hours show.

Nona, you are missed-we will never forget. :rose: :rose: :rose: It is my hope that justice will prevail in your honor, and for your family.
Even if not a guilty verdict for your murder, this person that took your life will some-how, some-way be punished and may that persons life be a living hell. :flamemad:

[guppie]

Just for the heck of it, can you give us the professional definition of tacky? Just for edification, since none of the jurors were professionals to the best of my knowledge/recollection. (Unless you count the nurse with the tie to Ryan Whiteside.)

Tacky means somewhere between wet and dry to me, both appearance-wise and tactically. But since I believe that the thermostat was lowered to throw off the time of death, I believe that it also delayed the drying time of the blood.


i recall as Law & order SVU or maybe it was CSI episode where the murderer lowered the thermostat. i would have to look up such reason for doing so and what effects it could have on the scene, but i think you have a good point. i had also wondered if the bulb had been on when the lamp had been used and obviously pulled out of the plug. bulbs take a while to cool down. could that have also had an effect on the "appearance" not that appearance matters except this jury?

[lorettalockhorn]

Nona, you are missed-we will never forget. :rose: :rose: :rose: It is my hope that justice will prevail in your honor, and for your family.
Even if not a guilty verdict for your murder, this person that took your life will some-how, some-way be punished

Amen.

[lorettalockhorn]

i recall as Law & order SVU or maybe it was CSI episode where the murderer lowered the thermostat. i would have to look up such reason for doing so and what effects it could have on the scene, but i think you have a good point. i had also wondered if the bulb had been on when the lamp had been used and obviously pulled out of the plug. bulbs take a while to cool down. could that have also had an effect on the "appearance" not that appearance matters except this jury?

Apparently, there are two such episodes (minmally); CSI: Miami, Entrance Wounds, 2003, prostitute murdered in a motel room, thermostat was lowered and the victim was bathed. I believe it was Amy who mentioned that there is another episode that features a man killing his wife, lowering the temperature, going fishing, and having his buddy check on the wife, leaving him to find the body. I have help requests on all three CSI boards at IMDb, but no word on that fisherman episode yet. I don't think is L&O, CI or SUV, or I would either remember it have seen it half a dozen times.

[christina]

these are purely my observations and opinions. i will not even go into the evidence. i will tell you what i observed from kevin himself and his mother. it's a bit long but very worth reading if you know anything about abuse. the minute kevin jones started talking, he jumped off the screen at me. it was so familiar..those words, that tone, that demeanor, that air of entitlement. i've been in a relationship with parallels to theirs. i guess i recognize it when i see and hear it. nona hid her abuse by her father so it is not a stretch that she would also hide abuse by kevin. i hid boyfriend abuse for 5 yrs.

kevin exhibits MANY signs (in his demeanor and what he says) of a verbally abusive person in his interview with 48 hrs and his police questioning videos. verbal abusers do sometimes cross over into physical abusers. they go into rages and have a higher propensity to kill. you can check stats on that.
keep in mind, one of these things alone amount to nothing, but it is the combination of all these that make the clear picture in my mind.

1) when KJ began dating nona she was sort of a weakling, shy, with low self-esteem then she became stronger once she began recovering from her childhood issues, speaking out, and competing in pageants. this changed her for the better, and KJ came across as controlling and he would not have liked that at all
2) abusers prey on the weak and needy and don't like it when they get a backbone and can make it on their own
3) KJ seems highly intellectual. i would bet he was partying and his grades were crappy at that time even though he is clearly smart enough to make A's.
nona was more of the over-acheiver with a drive, and that is detrimental when you are dating an abuser
4) the way he said school was "only an hour & a half away" and had this whatever look on his face when he said it - like he could do whatever he wanted but she could not
5) the way he stated matter of factly "i new i would marry her" & he "didn't see it any other way" ...that is a control statement
6) the hitting of the chair in front of police
7) the way he enunciated his own name in the 911 call
8) he struck me as one who wanted to go to the partying SEC school to do what he pleased and have nona sitting in a small town doing nothing ("do as i say not as i do" mentality)
9) the fact he would have worried about her after such a short time shows control and a stalking mentality
10) his mousy appearance and her increasing beauty with age clearly made her appear out of his league after all these years (once again, alone this would mean nothing to me)
11) claims he didn't know she was seeing other guys, yet obviously he did and was hiding that knowledge
12) he kept going to the police on his own with answers in his pocket ready to go the minute they asked...he answered questions too eagerly & quickly
13) most men like this come from a physically and verbally abusive father and mothers who overcompensate for that by babying and coddling them to an unnatural degree
14) KJ's mother's comments: "he GAVE her confidence" and the way she said, "when nona and kevin were together i saw him as a different person...just a little kinder and sweeter and gentle, because that's the way he always was WITH HER." watch his mother's expression when she says "with her"
as if kevin was another way the rest of the time...not so nice??? i think his mom knows exactly.
15) he came across as selfishly motivated doing this show to get "people stop talking about him and to stop judging him" (classic to abusers)
both he & his mother are more concerned about clearing kevin's name than having a killer brought to justice

i thank God everyday i made it out alive. unfortunately, nona did not. that is why i have found a passion in her case. that is what i saw. and that was all without knowing any of the other allegations re: drugs, voyeurism, public intox, etc. i only found those out after seeing kevin himself on camera. he is his own worst enemy. maybe God feels kevin is in more torment by being out in the world among peers who feel he is guilty than if he were isolated in prison. maybe that is his punishment.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. I do understand the drain felt. I felt that way every night of the trial, sitting through, listening to witnesses, trying to analize what was presented- it all took an emotional tole on me.
I do not agree with your conclusions on some of the things but, you telling us you were in an abusive relationship, it is easy to see why you could come to those. Some ealier discussions on the board led many here to read up on abuse and the effects it can have. It was helpful in understanding some of Nona and Jones behavoirs.
Again, thank you for answering my question.

[ifIwereU]

Apparently, there are two such episodes (minmally); CSI: Miami, Entrance Wounds, 2003, prostitute murdered in a motel room, thermostat was lowered and the victim was bathed. I believe it was Amy who mentioned that there is another episode that features a man killing his wife, lowering the temperature, going fishing, and having his buddy check on the wife, leaving him to find the body. I have help requests on all three CSI boards at IMDb, but no word on that fisherman episode yet. I don't think is L&O, CI or SUV, or I would either remember it have seen it half a dozen times.

there was an episode of Forensic Files called "Dinner and a Movie" that fits this description. The husband of the victim had turned on an AC window unit to make the room extremely cold....it was the victim's stomach contents that determined her time of death (which accounted for the "dinner" part of the title and also for which he did not have an alibi)...he also tried to make the scene appear as a sexual assault by pulling her panties off or down (not sure which it was) the "movie" part of the title came from the husband stated that the had watched a movie on HBO title Blackout (I think) that talked about how cold will impede the body decomp process....it was an interesting episode....a lot of similarities to Nona's murder (if you think KJ is guilty) he was leaving on fishing trip and made a call to his wife from his friend's house phone....during the call someone picked up on other phone and heard him having a conversation with a busy signal...he also arranged for someone else to find the body....

go to the Forensics files website and search Dinner and a movie and you can see a preview

[ifIwereU]

there was an episode of Forensic Files called "Dinner and a Movie" that fits this description. The husband of the victim had turned on an AC window unit to make the room extremely cold....it was the victim's stomach contents that determined her time of death (which accounted for the "dinner" part of the title and also for which he did not have an alibi)...he also tried to make the scene appear as a sexual assault by pulling her panties off or down (not sure which it was) the "movie" part of the title came from the husband stated that the had watched a movie on HBO title Blackout (I think) that talked about how cold will impede the body decomp process....it was an interesting episode....a lot of similarities to Nona's murder (if you think KJ is guilty) he was leaving on fishing trip and made a call to his wife from his friend's house phone....during the call someone picked up on other phone and heard him having a conversation with a busy signal...he also arranged for someone else to find the body....


go to the Forensics files website and search Dinner and a movie and you can see a preview
his alibi was fishing with friends....

[lorettalockhorn]

there was an episode of Forensic Files called "Dinner and a Movie" that fits this description. The husband of the victim had turned on an AC window unit to make the room extremely cold....it was the victim's stomach contents that determined her time of death (which accounted for the "dinner" part of the title and also for which he did not have an alibi)...he also tried to make the scene appear as a sexual assault by pulling her panties off or down (not sure which it was) the "movie" part of the title came from the husband stated that the had watched a movie on HBO title Blackout (I think) that talked about how cold will impede the body decomp process....it was an interesting episode....a lot of similarities to Nona's murder (if you think KJ is guilty) he was leaving on fishing trip and made a call to his wife from his friend's house phone....during the call someone picked up on other phone and heard him having a conversation with a busy signal...he also arranged for someone else to find the body....

go to the Forensics files website and search Dinner and a movie and you can see a preview

Thanks so much!

[guppie]

Apparently, there are two such episodes (minmally); CSI: Miami, Entrance Wounds, 2003, prostitute murdered in a motel room, thermostat was lowered and the victim was bathed. I believe it was Amy who mentioned that there is another episode that features a man killing his wife, lowering the temperature, going fishing, and having his buddy check on the wife, leaving him to find the body. I have help requests on all three CSI boards at IMDb, but no word on that fisherman episode yet. I don't think is L&O, CI or SUV, or I would either remember it have seen it half a dozen times.


oh, you just clicked someting in my head. it was a true crime show, not CSI or L&O. it was like "Snapped" but the opposite because it was a man who did the killing. gosh, i have to remember. i will think of it.

[guppie]

The print was not tested for coagulation. A retired policeman who bills himself as a forensics expert said he did not observe any signs of coagulation. The defense countered with a state medical examiner. The jury chose to believe the medical examiner over the retired policeman.


so i am taking your statement to mean that the defense expert thought the blood on the bulb WAS coagulated? explain. thx!
do you know the exact testimony (have notes)?

[guppie]

I appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. I do understand the drain felt. I felt that way every night of the trial, sitting through, listening to witnesses, trying to analize what was presented- it all took an emotional tole on me.
I do not agree with your conclusions on some of the things but, you telling us you were in an abusive relationship, it is easy to see why you could come to those. Some ealier discussions on the board led many here to read up on abuse and the effects it can have. It was helpful in understanding some of Nona and Jones behavoirs.
Again, thank you for answering my question.

a very gracious and objective comment. thank you so much, Christina. you are so welcome for answering your question. i hope that IF this was an "abuse gone out of control case" that young women who Nona was educating and trying to protect will make wise choices in the wake of her death. her legacy can live on, and she will have helped so many. that would make Nona very happy. i am sure her family is so proud of her accomplishments and what she did with her time on this earth.

[sololobo]

tom bevel, the blood expert, testified and was shown on 48 hrs. he said, "the blood on the bulb on both sides was placed there at the time of the killing rather than some later time." meaning, it was not clotted. i have read that much. if that is being disputed by you, please send me links to your sources. bevel based this theory on the coagulation of that blood through scientific testing, not on someone's words, and it was compared to blood on KJ's hands (clotted).

IMO, take away the mounds of circumstantial evidence, and you are still left with that damning piece of scientific evidence. one again, i believe EYE witness tesmony is the most unreliable testimony of all. we have DNA and forensics now. the jury overlooked that and i don't know why? do you? please inform if my facts are wrong. thanks!

The testimonies of these two are common knowledge. You implied Bevel conducted scientific tests to determine the blood was not coagulated. This is news to me. Perhaps you might supply links to this new info.

There are no mounds of circumstantial evidence. The only evidence against Kevin is a "tacky", bloody palm print which the defense claims was made after discovering the body. Mr. Bevel, who claims to be a blood expert, observed no clotting. This is hardly scientific.

[sololobo]

so i am taking your statement to mean that the defense expert thought the blood on the bulb WAS coagulated? explain. thx!
do you know the exact testimony (have notes)?

Blood begins the coagulation process when exposed to air. The issue was the degree of clotting on the print. Bevel claims if the print was made from "old" blood on the floor, exposed to air for a very long period, it should show more signs of coagulation. The medical examiner supplied by the defense claimed the print could have been made by "new" blood from the wound, exposed to air for a very short period, and would show less signs of coagulation.

[sololobo]

Wow, "state medical examiner" sounds much more dignified than "retired policeman who bills imself as a forensics expert." To which state medical examiner are you referring? I hope it is not the retired Alabama medical examiner who was for some absurd reason testifying as some kind of blood expert.

I feel safe in assuming a retired state medical examiner would tend to be more knowledgable in the properties of blood than a retired policeman.

[ifIwereU]

I feel safe in assuming a retired state medical examiner would tend to be more knowledgable in the properties of blood than a retired policeman.
however, Beval did write a pretty convincing book about blood pattern analysis.....

[christina]

Notes from today

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First up was Humphries fromt he State Crime Lab. He is latent print examiner like Bacon. The basic gist of his testimony was to impeach Bacon's saying the prints on the base of the lamp were not sutiable for comparison. He said that "3 ridges have no value".
At 9:20 Tom Bevel was up. He is the expert for the prosecution. Quals-20 years in OkCity as cop, now teaches/trains in crime scene and blood analysis. He was sent a cover letter by Gibbons, an e-mail from Frost, a Cd of 128 photographs, a 34 page report that included interviews. In November of 2006 he came to RPD and looked at the carpet and more pictures. The pros spent half of their time asking his opinion of why the scene was staged. Bevel cited- condom wrapper seemed out of place, stick not in door, appearance of sexual assault with no evidence of one, blood on floor leading up to jeans but none on the jeans, the jeans and bra on the floor looked out of place, cell phone with no battery was illogical. The other half was on blood clotting and the bulb print. He said the blood would have clotted by the time Jones found the body and in his opinion the print on the bulb was made with "fresh", unclotted blood. The defense showed him a book he had written and read parts of it to him that applied to the case. The first being about the danger of group think or tunnel vision and how important it is to consider all viable options. Defense asked him if he was provided with all the evidence before he formed his opinion- answer was no. Defens asked if the cover letter and e-mail talked specifically about Jones or was he provided with other suspects. Bevel said only Jones information was given to him. They then went piece by piece over the items he felt were staged. Stick- is it possible the murderer simply took it with him- yes. Is it probable that the blood on the slider blinds is from where the murderer looked out to see if all was clear- answer-possibly. Condom-in your book you say it is common for something like that to be close to the body, the counter is 4 feet fromt he body, is that close. Answer yes but it would be more likely to be on the floor. Pants- there was no blood under them so if they were staged after the fact, wouldn't there be some sign of blood on or around them? Answer-possibly.
Then at 10:55 after a short recess, the judge looked at the jury and said the prosecution has finished up and ow the defesne is going to begin. It was very anti climatic and unceremonious(is that a word?).

[christina]

Wednesday-first witness-The defense ME, MD, board certified in forensic pathology, retired chief medical examiner for Alabama, personally performed between 3-4,000 autopsies, believes an autopsy is just one tool in the cause of death investigation, 95% of his tesitifying has been for prosecutors, described blood properties(breakdown in white, red cells, etc.) and how they act differently on a porous versus a non porus surface when drying, stated that the rug under victim's head acted as a sponge, said clotting would have little to do with when the blood was placed on the bulb, was surprised the autopsy took place 4 days after death, said it was highly unusual because demposition had started(showing pictures to the jury)and made TOD more difficult to determine, believed in a case like this is would be very important to do the autopsy asap, 3 things to determine TOD- lividity, body temp and rigor, (body temp was not taken in this case), described rigo-fibers around muscles lock, says if there was a struggle or the victim had soem physical activity prior-the fibors are depleted so it is harder/less reliable to set TOD using this....
I have some notes on his description of how the attack took place, the specific injuries on the vicitm, histology slides, etc...
He was a very easy witness to listen to as he spoke in understandable terms and kind of taught as he went along. And most important he spoke loud enough for us to easily hear! He was an older gentleman, neat in appearance, relaxed, was not emotional. The prosecution had a very hard time cross examining him, like they were over their heads with his knowledge level. He was not phased by anything they asked and was not contentious when asked why he differed with their ME.
Recently I saw Bevel, the prosecution expert, on one of the TV shows about crime. He was postulating about another case. IMO, Bevel is looking for a level of fame making him suspect to me.

[guppie]

The testimonies of these two are common knowledge. You implied Bevel conducted scientific tests to determine the blood was not coagulated. This is news to me. Perhaps you might supply links to this new info.

There are no mounds of circumstantial evidence. The only evidence against Kevin is a "tacky", bloody palm print which the defense claims was made after discovering the body. Mr. Bevel, who claims to be a blood expert, observed no clotting. This is hardly scientific.

to me, there are "mounds" of circumstantial evidence.
i am not sure you understand what circumstantial evidence is if you mention the blood evidence following your statement.

circumstantial evidence is NON-scientific evidence. i could go into all the non-scientific evidence or circumstances in this case, but i think we already all know what these things are. that would be going over the obvious things discussed over and over in this thread.

[guppie]

The testimonies of these two are common knowledge. You implied Bevel conducted scientific tests to determine the blood was not coagulated. This is news to me. Perhaps you might supply links to this new info.

There are no mounds of circumstantial evidence. The only evidence against Kevin is a "tacky", bloody palm print which the defense claims was made after discovering the body. Mr. Bevel, who claims to be a blood expert, observed no clotting. This is hardly scientific.

why would the state bring in an expert to testify about the blood evidence who had not conducted scientific tests? that seems a waste and highly unbelievable to me.

anyone else have a comment about what tests Bevel stated he ran? let's get to the bottom of this. thank you for your input. this is something worth looking into.

[christina]

why would the state bring in an expert to testify about the blood evidence who had not conducted scientific tests? that seems a waste and highly unbelievable to me.

anyone else have a comment about what tests Bevel stated he ran? let's get to the bottom of this. thank you for your input. this is something worth looking into.

I posted my notes from Bevel's testimony on the day he testified. He did not perform any tests, just gave opinions as an expert. As noted, he was given information, in the cover letter asking for him to testify, only about Jones.
He was not impressive at all on the stand and the defense on cross examination of him, had him practically agreeing with them.
Bevel's focus, per the cover letter from the prosecution, had him mainly speaking on how he believed the crime scene was staged. However in closing, the prosecution focusses on the condom wrapper as a trigger.

[lorettalockhorn]

Wednesday-first witness-The defense ME, MD, board certified in forensic pathology, retired chief medical examiner for Alabama, personally performed between 3-4,000 autopsies, believes an autopsy is just one tool in the cause of death investigation, 95% of his tesitifying has been for prosecutors, described blood properties(breakdown in white, red cells, etc.) and how they act differently on a porous versus a non porus surface when drying, stated that the rug under victim's head acted as a sponge, said clotting would have little to do with when the blood was placed on the bulb, was surprised the autopsy took place 4 days after death, said it was highly unusual because demposition had started(showing pictures to the jury)and made TOD more difficult to determine, believed in a case like this is would be very important to do the autopsy asap, 3 things to determine TOD- lividity, body temp and rigor, (body temp was not taken in this case), described rigo-fibers around muscles lock, says if there was a struggle or the victim had soem physical activity prior-the fibors are depleted so it is harder/less reliable to set TOD using this....
I have some notes on his description of how the attack took place, the specific injuries on the vicitm, histology slides, etc...
He was a very easy witness to listen to as he spoke in understandable terms and kind of taught as he went along. And most important he spoke loud enough for us to easily hear! He was an older gentleman, neat in appearance, relaxed, was not emotional. The prosecution had a very hard time cross examining him, like they were over their heads with his knowledge level. He was not phased by anything they asked and was not contentious when asked why he differed with their ME.
Recently I saw Bevel, the prosecution expert, on one of the TV shows about crime. He was postulating about another case. IMO, Bevel is looking for a level of fame making him suspect to me.

hmmm Guess he wasn't able to teach the prosecution?

I wasn't really impressed with any of the experts in this trial. :shrug:

[christina]

hmmm Guess he wasn't able to teach the prosecution?

I wasn't really impressed with any of the experts in this trial. :shrug:

I did not explain that well. The prosecution in their cross examination, were unable to get him to say what they wanted. It became painfully clear the prosecution was ill prepared for this witness. They had apparantly not been schooled on the finer points by their experts.

Had you been able to observe the different experts testify first hand- it might change your opinion.
As I have said previously, in my opinion, the newspaper and television reports did not accurately portray the testimonies. The Courier in particular appeared to have a bias many times.

[lorettalockhorn]

I did not explain that well. The prosecution in their cross examination, were unable to get him to say what they wanted. It became painfully clear the prosecution was ill prepared for this witness. They had apparantly not been schooled on the finer points by their experts.

Had you been able to observe the different experts testify first hand- it might change your opinion.
As I have said previously, in my opinion, the newspaper and television reports did not accurately portray the testimonies. The Courier in particular appeared to have a bias many times.

So he stood his ground? Big deal. What did anyone expect of any of the witnesses. He's not the only one who had the courage of his convictions. Don't really remember any of the witnesses equivocating.

Well aware of your opionion about the media, The Courier in particular. Can't help but wonder if you have a personal reason for that. It is an award winning newspaper, although I wonder about the writing skills of some of their personnel from time to time.

[CSOKC]

Is the board acting up with anyone else? This is what I tried to say earlier:

All of the blood evidence, testimony, etc. is very important, but I can't help wondering who the "viable suspect" is that the DNA belongs to. I really thought that the name would be released by now, though at the same time I know that it's smart for the name not to be released until they have enough evidence. It could turn out to be nothing, who knows, but I've been trying to think of anyone and everyone that it could be and I just can't figure out any possibilities. Is this driving anyone else crazy?

[ifIwereU]

I think that how you (not fingerpointing just speaking in general) perceive someones testimony can be somewhat subjective....kinda like how we all have our opinions of what happened in the case and how we interpret things that happened....if you think or believe it happened in a certain way then when new information is found there is always a way to conform that to fit into the story you origianlly perceived. Camp Kevin has done it with their perception of things that happened....as have I.....the condom wrapper is no different...the prosecution first felt it was part of the staging...then part of the trigger....the defense thinks it was some wacko that went there to rape her....because that fits their scenerio....there's just no way to know for sure unless you there.....

[LurkerNoMore]

Is the board acting up with anyone else? This is what I tried to say earlier:

All of the blood evidence, testimony, etc. is very important, but I can't help wondering who the "viable suspect" is that the DNA belongs to. I really thought that the name would be released by now, though at the same time I know that it's smart for the name not to be released until they have enough evidence. It could turn out to be nothing, who knows, but I've been trying to think of anyone and everyone that it could be and I just can't figure out any possibilities. Is this driving anyone else crazy?

In a word, yes.

[christina]

Is the board acting up with anyone else? This is what I tried to say earlier:

All of the blood evidence, testimony, etc. is very important, but I can't help wondering who the "viable suspect" is that the DNA belongs to. I really thought that the name would be released by now, though at the same time I know that it's smart for the name not to be released until they have enough evidence. It could turn out to be nothing, who knows, but I've been trying to think of anyone and everyone that it could be and I just can't figure out any possibilities. Is this driving anyone else crazy?

I have tried to go back and read posts about other possible suspects- yes, it is driving me crazy.

[christina]

I think that how you (not fingerpointing just speaking in general) perceive someones testimony can be somewhat subjective....kinda like how we all have our opinions of what happened in the case and how we interpret things that happened....if you think or believe it happened in a certain way then when new information is found there is always a way to conform that to fit into the story you origianlly perceived. Camp Kevin has done it with their perception of things that happened....as have I.....the condom wrapper is no different...the prosecution first felt it was part of the staging...then part of the trigger....the defense thinks it was some wacko that went there to rape her....because that fits their scenerio....there's just no way to know for sure unless you there.....

Would you agree that it is more possible to form opinions if you view the testimony in person than read what is written by someone else?
I agree about the condom wrapper but we will know for sure soon I hope!

[christina]

So he stood his ground? Big deal. What did anyone expect of any of the witnesses. He's not the only one who had the courage of his convictions. Don't really remember any of the witnesses equivocating.

Well aware of your opionion about the media, The Courier in particular. Can't help but wonder if you have a personal reason for that. It is an award winning newspaper, although I wonder about the writing skills of some of their personnel from time to time.

Bevel clearly did under cross examination.

Wonder no longer-I have no personal problem with the Courier. Have been a faithful subscriber for decades. Have noted their awards and agree with your conclusion about some of the writing- evidence even in this mornings paper about use of the word highten in a headline.

As you point out-my opinion of how they handled the reporting of this particular case is documented here-formed from a plethora of evidence-the debacle of the reporter who posted here under an assumed name as well as her real name, lied and ended up testifying in the change of venue hearing. The same reporter burned the RPD and prosecutor by reporting on a document they showed her but asked her not to print. And the Courier unwisely till had her do some of the reporting of the trial. She was in a minority among the other reporters at the trial in her opinions.

[ifIwereU]

Would you agree that it is more possible to form opinions if you view the testimony in person than read what is written by someone else?
I agree about the condom wrapper but we will know for sure soon I hope!

I will agree that having ALL the information is MOUNDS better than having bits and pieces...whether its spoken or written but most of the time you can only get all the info if you hear it directly...that whole lost in translation thing
because there are those who have posted on this board to things that didn't actually happen...don't know if that was their perception of things or if they just outright wanted to deceive others on the board...So hearing it first hand is most always better than hearing someone tell how it was.

[christina]

I will agree that having ALL the information is MOUNDS better than having bits and pieces...whether its spoken or written but most of the time you can only get all the info if you hear it directly...that whole lost in translation thing
because there are those who have posted on this board to things didn't actually happen...don't know if that was their perception of things or if they just outright wanted to deceive others on the board...So hearing it first hand is most always better than hearing someone tell how it was.

Agreed, and I have tried to be "part of the whole" in presenting what I saw and heard.

[CSOKC]

Did anyone see the newest wall post on the "Pray for Kevin Jones and his Family!" facebook group? Interesting.

[christina]

Did anyone see the newest wall post on the "Pray for Kevin Jones and his Family!" facebook group? Interesting.

How and where do you go to facebook?

[christina]

I still can not find my notes from the trial. You have asked me some questions I have not answered as yet because of that. I had a few minutes today and went back through the posts here. If you want the comments from eyewitnesses to the trial, they start on page 93. There are three posters that say they were present-jonikay, susieq and me.
Hope this helps you find some of the answers.

[LurkerNoMore]

Did anyone see the newest wall post on the "Pray for Kevin Jones and his Family!" facebook group? Interesting.

Can you repost here? I don't have access to facebook or other sites like that at work.

[FDInLaw]

Can you repost here? I don't have access to facebook or other sites like that at work.
Unless the mods are sleeping, don't attempt this. It is against TOS to post something from a private board (or at least that is what I was told when I got my hand slapped some time ago).

[christina]

"i agree with nate. i hang out with kevin sometimes when he comes down and he cant even go out and have a beer without someone trying to steal pictures of it and use them against him on crime library. your intentions might be good, but the more **** he has online about him the more problems he has. close this ****, man. "


Thank you

[christina]

Unless the mods are sleeping, don't attempt this. It is against TOS to post something from a private board (or at least that is what I was told when I got my hand slapped some time ago).

Uh oh! I just asked to be given directions on how to get to facebook, is that ok?
Do we still have moderators here? I thought when I came back I read that the moderators left.

[LurkerNoMore]

Unless the mods are sleeping, don't attempt this. It is against TOS to post something from a private board (or at least that is what I was told when I got my hand slapped some time ago).

Sorry! Didn't know! I'd suggest posting a paraphrase or summary of it instead.

[CSOKC]

I'm sorry for inadvertently breaking the forum rules! I had no idea.

[FDInLaw]

I'm sorry for inadvertently breaking the forum rules! I had no idea.I had no clue about it either! :o

[lorettalockhorn]

Bevel clearly did under cross examination.

Wonder no longer-I have no personal problem with the Courier. Have been a faithful subscriber for decades. Have noted their awards and agree with your conclusion about some of the writing- evidence even in this mornings paper about use of the word highten in a headline.

As you point out-my opinion of how they handled the reporting of this particular case is documented here-formed from a plethora of evidence-the debacle of the reporter who posted here under an assumed name as well as her real name, lied and ended up testifying in the change of venue hearing. The same reporter burned the RPD and prosecutor by reporting on a document they showed her but asked her not to print. And the Courier unwisely till had her do some of the reporting of the trial. She was in a minority among the other reporters at the trial in her opinions.

Bevel what? Equivocated? Recanted? I never read that in The Courier, you would think that would be big news. He reiterated his findings on the 48 Hours segment.

Of course, I missed the retraction that Brown hound says they printed re: the alleged rape story. I also missed where Janie lied. I guess The Courier doesn't think that they OR she are unwise, since they promoted her. (Which beats the hayell out of me!)

I do wish that The Courier had given the trial more space, but I guess their detractors would have accused them of sensationalism if they had.

How and where do you go to facebook?

Go to facebook.com and register for an account and you will be able to search. Or if your kids have an account there, maybe they'll let you sign in on their account. Or they can give you specific instructions on how to set up your account, privacy settings, etc.

[christina]

Bevel what? Equivocated? Recanted? I never read that in The Courier, you would think that would be big news. He reiterated his findings on the 48 Hours segment.

Of course, I missed the retraction that Brown hound says they printed re: the alleged rape story. I also missed where Janie lied. I guess The Courier doesn't think that they OR she are unwise, since they promoted her. (Which beats the hayell out of me!)

I do wish that The Courier had given the trial more space, but I guess their detractors would have accused them of sensationalism if they had.



Go to facebook.com and register for an account and you will be able to search. Or if your kids have an account there, maybe they'll let you sign in on their account. Or they can give you specific instructions on how to set up your account, privacy settings, etc.


Thanks for the facebook instructions.

Bevel backed off during cross examination-my opinion from personal observation. I am confident you would not have read that in the Courier.

The reporter(janie?) lied on this board, under her assumed name, about her personal experiences. This was brought out at the change of venue hearing.
I can not speak to what criteria the head honchos at the Courier use for promotions. I have noted they have advertised for reporters for several months now.

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks for the facebook instructions.

Bevel backed off during cross examination-my opinion from personal observation. I am confident you would not have read that in the Courier.

The reporter(janie?) lied on this board, under her assumed name, about her personal experiences. This was brought out at the change of venue hearing.
I can not speak to what criteria the head honchos at the Courier use for promotions. I have noted they have advertised for reporters for several months now.

Well, I was not in the courtroom to see Bevel back off and have never seen it reported anywhere. He stuck to his guns in the 48 Hours segment as I would expect. Of him or any other witness.

I know that Janie supposedly broke the terms of service by having two usernames here; I believe that her answer about posting as lemoncello was circumvented during the change of venue hearing. Was it not? The question about lying?

So you think that The Courier is having trouble hiring reporters because of JG? You lost me there.

The facebook instructions for creating an account are simple, but I'm sure if your kids are members there, they can give you tips.

[christina]

Well, I was not in the courtroom to see Bevel back off and have never seen it reported anywhere. He stuck to his guns in the 48 Hours segment as I would expect. Of him or any other witness.

I know that Janie supposedly broke the terms of service by having two usernames here; I believe that her answer about posting as lemoncello was circumvented during the change of venue hearing. Was it not? The question about lying?

So you think that The Courier is having trouble hiring reporters because of JG? You lost me there.

The facebook instructions for creating an account are simple, but I'm sure if your kids are members there, they can give you tips.

In the change of venue hearing one of the things she was asked about was if what she reported on the site as lemoncello was true, that she was a victim of abuse. She said no and her lawyer stood up and said there was another suit she was involved in and the questions needed to end there. It was never made clear as to what that was. I believe it was discussed here on the board. I will try to find it.

No, I was inferring that maybe lack of reporters is what necessitates moving people up the ranks quickly at the Courier.

[christina]

"I'm aware of the symbiosis that frequently exists between the press and sources. I think that lots of people learned that JG is possibly not to be trusted; us, The Courier, LE, the public who have inferred what happened here with lemoncello, etc."

And here is the link ot the Courier article on her testifying at the hearing.
http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15072&Search=Kevin%20Jones

[lorettalockhorn]

"I'm aware of the symbiosis that frequently exists between the press and sources. I think that lots of people learned that JG is possibly not to be trusted; us, The Courier, LE, the public who have inferred what happened here with lemoncello, etc."

And here is the link ot the Courier article on her testifying at the hearing.
http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15072&Search=Kevin%20Jones

????

[christina]

????

I am guessing by this you are not understanding my post. You questioned my comment about the Courier reporter lying(three or so posts back). I said I would look back through posts that referred to that. What I found was that one by you, and the link to the Courier article about the hearing I referenced.

[hawgustusgloop]

The reporter(janie?) lied on this board, under her assumed name, about her personal experiences.

Wow, that's almost as bad as lying and saying you know a murder victim and her family well on this board, and then later saying you didn't know them. JMO.

[lorettalockhorn]

I am guessing by this you are not understanding my post. You questioned my comment about the Courier reporter lying(three or so posts back). I said I would look back through posts that referred to that. What I found was that one by you, and the link to the Courier article about the hearing I referenced.

I understood your post, just not why you went to the trouble of making it. So JG was asked a two part question, to which she answered "no", and then the questioning was stopped. How does anyone know if or what she lied about? There have been many lies in this thread; as Hawg has so eloquently exemplified.

[guppie]

I posted my notes from Bevel's testimony on the day he testified. He did not perform any tests, just gave opinions as an expert. As noted, he was given information, in the cover letter asking for him to testify, only about Jones.
He was not impressive at all on the stand and the defense on cross examination of him, had him practically agreeing with them.
Bevel's focus, per the cover letter from the prosecution, had him mainly speaking on how he believed the crime scene was staged. However in closing, the prosecution focusses on the condom wrapper as a trigger.


thank you for the info. sounds like the prosecution really didn't get the expert opinion on the forensic evidence that they had. what a shame. i didn't go to law school (was a crim just major though), and i think from the sound of this i could have done a better job than this prosecution team did. why would they get Bevel instead of someone who could run forensic testing? i guess AR was tight with the money spent on this case. reminds me a lot of OJ trial in which the jury got distracted by a leather glove that apparently IMO shrank from being wet with blood rather than the forensic evidence. whoever can afford the better attorneys wins. it is unfortunate our legal system works this way.

also a shame that the prosec deemed the condom wrapper a "trigger" since many of us seem to believe it was planted.

LORETTA or FD- just wanting a second opinion about Bevel. did he not run forensic tests on the blood from the bulb? what Christina says is amazing to me. what a HUGE mistake on the state's part! i am shaking my head.

[guppie]

Is the board acting up with anyone else? This is what I tried to say earlier:

All of the blood evidence, testimony, etc. is very important, but I can't help wondering who the "viable suspect" is that the DNA belongs to. I really thought that the name would be released by now, though at the same time I know that it's smart for the name not to be released until they have enough evidence. It could turn out to be nothing, who knows, but I've been trying to think of anyone and everyone that it could be and I just can't figure out any possibilities. Is this driving anyone else crazy?


the curiosity is getting at me a bit, but i am convinced that if it was a "viable suspect" then they would have done something by now. however, i don't think it will change my mind one bit about who murdered nona regardless of who the DNA belongs to since i believe it was planted.

[guppie]

Agreed, and I have tried to be "part of the whole" in presenting what I saw and heard.


i very much appreciate that! i wish i had been there in person. i don't like getting second-hand info. that is why i analyzed kevin so carefully on 48 hrs. that was first-hand info! i rely on that much more than what has traveled through the newspaper.

[guppie]

I still can not find my notes from the trial. You have asked me some questions I have not answered as yet because of that. I had a few minutes today and went back through the posts here. If you want the comments from eyewitnesses to the trial, they start on page 93. There are three posters that say they were present-jonikay, susieq and me.
Hope this helps you find some of the answers.


thx for the page number. did susieq get banned?

[guppie]

Originally Posted by CSOKC
"i agree with nate. i hang out with kevin sometimes when he comes down and he cant even go out and have a beer without someone trying to steal pictures of it and use them against him on crime library. your intentions might be good, but the more **** he has online about him the more problems he has. close this ****, man.


i think you are correct that drinking in a bar should not be used against anyone. you can look back at my early posts and see that i have no issue with an of-age person drinking or going out. i have also said i don't even have issue with PI (public intox) since i got one once in my 20's for no good reason. they don't even have to give you any kind of test to prove you are in fact drunk. it's a pretty ridiculous charge...unless you are shouting at a female down the street after you are on trial for your girlfriend's murder. not a good scene!

i do want to say again that i still have a strong feeling that maybe kevin's torment is much greater out in the world from peers than it would be if he were isolated in a prison cell. maybe this IS his punishment. opinions?

[CSOKC]

i think you are correct that drinking in a bar should not be used against anyone. you can look back at my early posts and see that i have no issue with an of-age person drinking or going out. i have also said i don't even have issue with PI (public intox) since i got one once in my 20's for no good reason. they don't even have to give you any kind of test to prove you are in fact drunk. it's a pretty ridiculous charge...unless you are shouting at a female down the street after you are on trial for your girlfriend's murder. not a good scene!

i do want to say again that i still have a strong feeling that maybe kevin's torment is much greater out in the world from peers than it would be if he were isolated in a prison cell. maybe this IS his punishment. opinions?
I honestly don't think that Kevin really cares at all what people say about him. I agree with you about going to a bar not being a big deal, but Kevin's friends have often said he couldn't go out and enjoy himself and I think those pictures show that in fact he has absolutely no problem with that. Not only do I think he murdered Nona, I also think he has serious character issues that eventually will get him into trouble.

[guppie]

I honestly don't think that Kevin really cares at all what people say about him. I agree with you about going to a bar not being a big deal, but Kevin's friends have often said he couldn't go out and enjoy himself and I think those pictures show that in fact he has absolutely no problem with that. Not only do I think he murdered Nona, I also think he has serious character issues that eventually will get him into trouble.

this is from my long post (sorry) #9180 about why i think kevin did it based solely on kevin himself. i had never seen or heard of the Courier or even this case until i saw KJ on 48 hrs. i had no pre-notions or slanted views on this case. this quote was from the very end of 48 hrs.

15) he came across as selfishly motivated doing this show to get "people stop talking about him and to stop judging him" (classic to abusers)
both he & his mother are more concerned about clearing kevin's name than having a killer brought to justice

i think kevin cares what others think about him. not that i believe a lot of what he says, but i tend to believe that. he has been referred to as a sociopath by some. i tend to agree at this point now that i have done more research. he fits that profile pretty well from what i can tell. here's a link: http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~mcafee/Bin/sb.html

[guppie]

I honestly don't think that Kevin really cares at all what people say about him. I agree with you about going to a bar not being a big deal, but Kevin's friends have often said he couldn't go out and enjoy himself and I think those pictures show that in fact he has absolutely no problem with that. Not only do I think he murdered Nona, I also think he has serious character issues that eventually will get him into trouble.

i'm confused. in the post earlier you said you hang out with kevin some, but here you say you believe he is guilty. am i reading this right? please advise.

[christina]

[QUOTE=guppie;9093126]thank you for the info. sounds like the prosecution really didn't get the expert opinion on the forensic evidence that they had. what a shame. i didn't go to law school (was a crim just major though), and i think from the sound of this i could have done a better job than this prosecution team did. why would they get Bevel instead of someone who could run forensic testing? i guess AR was tight with the money spent on this case. reminds me a lot of OJ trial in which the jury got distracted by a leather glove that apparently IMO shrank from being wet with blood rather than the forensic evidence. whoever can afford the better attorneys wins. it is unfortunate our legal system works this way.

also a shame that the prosec deemed the condom wrapper a "trigger" since many of us seem to believe it was planted.


About the prosecutors- IMO, they did the best they could with what the RPD handed them. There was also a strong public outcry after the RPD reported they had their only suspect. It took a while for the prosecutors to file the charges thought. It was rumored they saw the holes the RPD left. So during that time they brought in the state police investigator(the female who testified-she was excellent). Also, at trial, the deputy prosecutor was much better that Gibbons but Gibbons took the lead position. I also think their strategy was poor. They spent the first couple of days focussing on non essentials and it made their case look weak. An example, several witnesses testified to Nona being security conscience, but on cross examination more harm was done(questioning why the young man was there-he admitted they had a sexual relationship). Another example was the RPD saying only 3 people had keys, Nona, her mother and Jones. It was also rumored that the prosecution while researching the case, found out that many people had access/were ina and out of Nona's apartment. During the trial, they(prosecution) starting cutting witnesses from their list when they saw where their testimonies might lead.
Bottom line in my opinion-the RPD did a poor job, came to a conclusion within days, and spent the next month attempting to shore up that conclusion rather than truly investigating. They sent their PCS to the prosecutor who saw its wekaness and held off filing the charges against Jones. He allowed the outcry to push him to file the charges.
I wonder if the naming of the "viable suspect" who left the condom wrapper in Nona's apartment will truly be a shock. Most likely, it will be someone who should have been investigated more indepth.

[lorettalockhorn]

thank you for the info. sounds like the prosecution really didn't get the expert opinion on the forensic evidence that they had. what a shame. i didn't go to law school (was a crim just major though), and i think from the sound of this i could have done a better job than this prosecution team did. why would they get Bevel instead of someone who could run forensic testing? i guess AR was tight with the money spent on this case. reminds me a lot of OJ trial in which the jury got distracted by a leather glove that apparently IMO shrank from being wet with blood rather than the forensic evidence. whoever can afford the better attorneys wins. it is unfortunate our legal system works this way.

also a shame that the prosec deemed the condom wrapper a "trigger" since many of us seem to believe it was planted.

LORETTA or FD- just wanting a second opinion about Bevel. did he not run forensic tests on the blood from the bulb? what Christina says is amazing to me. what a HUGE mistake on the state's part! i am shaking my head.

Guppie, pretty much everything that was stated by FD or me is still in the thread, it's all here for the reading; you can search by keyword, or simply click on a user name to find his/her posts. Bevel, like Frost in the PCS, believed that the scene was staged. I still believe that myself. Why the prosecution let the jury hear two theories on motive, I have no idea. (For all I know, it was a combination of staging and trigger.) Lord knows RPD and the prosecution have been bashed to hell and back for letting down Nona, the Diperts, the Dirkmeyers, their constituents, etc.

i'm confused. in the post earlier you said you hang out with kevin some, but here you say you believe he is guilty. am i reading this right? please advise.

As for CSOKC's post here, it was a quote from another site.

[guppie]

lorettalockhorn;9093220Why the prosecution let the jury hear two theories on motive, I have no idea. (For all I know, it was a combination of staging and trigger.)

my initial instinct was that the condom wrapper was probably found by KJ at Nona's on an earlier date, that he pocketed the wrapper as proof of her having sex outside their relationship, and then retrieved and planted it after the murder just to embellish the scene and take eyes away from him. IMO i don't believe he took it originally for any other reason than to prove she was having sex with someone else, meaning it was just convenient he had it in order to plant. that is really what i have been expecting as far as this wrapper goes. is that what you meant in your quote about "combination?"
i had an ex who fit this profile. he used to take things and hide them from me to use against me later or for leverage or whatever, so i know how that is.

[lorettalockhorn]

i think kevin cares what others think about him. not that i believe a lot of what he says, but i tend to believe that. he has been referred to as a sociopath by some. i tend to agree at this point now that i have done more research. he fits that profile pretty well from what i can tell. here's a link: http://www.hss.caltech.edu/~mcafee/Bin/sb.html

I'm no shrink type, but I think that he's more of a narcissist.

my initial instinct was that the condom wrapper was probably found by KJ at Nona's on an earlier date, that he pocketed the wrapper as proof of her having sex outside their relationship, and then retrieved and planted it after the murder just to embellish the scene and take eyes away from him. IMO i don't believe he took it originally for any other reason than to prove she was having sex with someone else, meaning it was just convenient he had it in order to plant. that is really what i have been expecting as far as this wrapper goes. is that what you meant in your quote about "combination?"
i had an ex who fit this profile. he used to take things and hide them from me to use against me later or for leverage or whatever, so i know how that is.

I can totally imagine Kevin finding the condom wrapper and pocketing it to confront Nona with at a later time. No telling how many times he had been in and out of her apartment without her knowledge, if he was stalking her. After he killed her, he simply availed himself of it, to stage the scene.

[guppie]

I'm no shrink type, but I think that he's more of a narcissist.


I can totally imagine Kevin finding the condom wrapper and pocketing it to confront Nona with at a later time. No telling how many times he had been in and out of her apartment without her knowledge, if he was stalking her. After he killed her, he simply availed himself of it, to stage the scene.

yes, i believe you are correct on your 1st point now that i thought about it more. seems like we are on the same page in regards to the condom wrapper. yep!

i know about stalking and taking things all too well. my ex-bf even took clothing of mine, a child support check that was from my ex-husband, and videos taped from my daughter's first 5 years. that is how badly he wanted to control me. i actually was on myspace last year (TWO yrs after he and i split up) and i looked at a page of one of his friends. gut instinct? i had never looked at that page before, and it was like something was telling me to. and there it was! my favorite little black dress on some random woman he found that could fit in it. i am a size 0/2 and 4'11". he must have really tried hard to find someone to fit in that. it was so creepy i actually screamed outloud.

[FDInLaw]

yes, i believe you are correct on your 1st point now that i thought about it more. seems like we are on the same page in regards to the condom wrapper. yep!

i know about stalking and taking things all too well. my ex-bf even took clothing of mine, a child support check that was from my ex-husband, and videos taped from my daughter's first 5 years. that is how badly he wanted to control me. i actually was on myspace last year (TWO yrs after he and i split up) and i looked at a page of one of his friends. gut instinct? i had never looked at that page before, and it was like something was telling me to. and there it was! my favorite little black dress on some random woman he found that could fit in it. i am a size 0/2 and 4'11". he must have really tried hard to find someone to fit in that. it was so creepy i actually screamed outloud.YIKES! :eek:

[hawgustusgloop]

LORETTA or FD- just wanting a second opinion about Bevel. did he not run forensic tests on the blood from the bulb? what Christina says is amazing to me. what a HUGE mistake on the state's part! i am shaking my head.

I suggest you also check out oxfordwebster's posts on the blood evidence for another opinion.

[FDInLaw]

I suggest you also check out oxfordwebster's posts on the blood evidence for another opinion.Ox is a good one! :beer:

[guppie]

I suggest you also check out oxfordwebster's posts on the blood evidence for another opinion.

sure will , thx!

[guppie]

found this old post by Ox about the bloody palm print: You have to make a an extreme stretch to begin to think that he placed it there at any other time than the murder.

Like I mentioned yesterday, there was no sign of coagulation in the bloody print. What's more likely? That he placed it when the blood was fresh? Or that he placed it when he got blood on himself at discovery, with the blood that he got on his hands somehow not mixing in with the coagulation that would have occurred on the wounds and inside the body? Again, like I mentioned yesterday, the defense's own expert couldn't even keep the blood from coagulating using an anticoagulant and keeping the blood from being exposed to air.

If he left it when he found Nona, then that blood somehow made an agreement with Kevin to segregate itself from all of the other coagulated blood that would be present in a body that had been laying around for 6 to 7 hours. I find that hard to believe.

from reading a few of Ox's posts, i see that the defense's expert in fact did agree that the blood in the print was not clotted, but he still somehow maintained the print could have been put there on discovery of nona's body. UGH whatever. any attorney can find an expert to testify to their theory. obviously, the defense's expert just appeared more professional and i'm sure charged more by the hour, so he got the jury to buy in to his analysis. how OJ is that?! UGH again.

[guppie]

at the end of 48 hrs, it stated KJ went back to college and wants to be a lawyer. (cough, cough)
is he still in fayetteville, and is he really working his way to law school or was that a load of ****? the scary thing is he would probably make an excellent attorney. he could get paid to manipulate.

[lorettalockhorn]

Guppie, last I heard KJ is in Fort Smith (UAFS?), don't know if they actually have a law school. Won't he have to start keeping his nose clean to be admitted to the bar?

[hawgustusgloop]

Guppie, last I heard KJ is in Fort Smith (UAFS?), don't know if they actually have a law school. Won't he have to start keeping his nose clean to be admitted to the bar?

There is a paralegal program there, but certainly no law school. He would have to go to UA Fayetteville or UALR for that, unless he goes somewhere out of $tate. Maybe he is just planning on completing his undergrad work there.

[lorettalockhorn]

There is a paralegal program there, but certainly no law school. He would have to go to UA Fayetteville or UALR for that, unless he goes somewhere out of $tate. Maybe he is just planning on completing his undergrad work there.

:seeya: That's what Leroy was just telling me, I've always heard that UAF's lawschool is tougher than UALR's. Wasn't there talk at one point that he was thinking about psychology? (Kevin, not Leroy.) Double major, maybe?

[guppie]

Guppie, last I heard KJ is in Fort Smith (UAFS?), don't know if they actually have a law school. Won't he have to start keeping his nose clean to be admitted to the bar?


ha. good thing for him they don't give a drug test along with the bar exam. i wonder how many law firms require attorneys to be drug tested? (laughing)
i know attorneys who have had DUI's and such. like i said, it may be an appropriate choice for KJ at the rate he's going.

[lorettalockhorn]

Doesn't the bar association from time to time spank the hands of attorneys who get in trouble with the law outside of court?

I dunno. just seems like a half-baked idea. For him to try to become a lawyer. Or a shrink type. I see him as a bartender. Giving out advice and no degree necessary.

[guppie]

Doesn't the bar association from time to time spank the hands of attorneys who get in trouble with the law outside of court?

I dunno. just seems like a half-baked idea. For him to try to become a lawyer. Or a shrink type. I see him as a bartender. Giving out advice and no degree necessary.

yeah, the bar assoc spanks hands and rarely disbars.
bartender? hmmm, drinking free and dispensing free advice. yep, sounds about right. next best thing to a psych and law degree!

[hawgustusgloop]

Doesn't the bar association from time to time spank the hands of attorneys who get in trouble with the law outside of court?

I dunno. just seems like a half-baked idea. For him to try to become a lawyer. Or a shrink type. I see him as a bartender. Giving out advice and no degree necessary.

Maybe he could get a bartending gig at Papa's Pub in Fort Smith. All the drunk lawyers I know hang out there. JMO.

[jonikay]

Clear your PMs, lo.

[christina]

If it turns out that the owner of the condom wrapper dna is also the owner of the prints on the real murder weapon(not an unbroken lightbulb), and is convicted of(or confesses to) Nona's death.... will Jones have a solid suit against the RPD, the prosecutor, the "state"?

[lorettalockhorn]

If it turns out that the owner of the condom wrapper dna is also the owner of the prints on the real murder weapon(not an unbroken lightbulb), and is convicted of(or confesses to) Nona's death.... will Jones have a solid suit against the RPD, the prosecutor, the "state"?

Sorry, was hoping that you had a link to the condom wrapper owner!!!

Isn't the State indemnified from legal action? Or I guess you know the answer to that and will give us your expert opinion.

[Amy]

If it turns out that the owner of the condom wrapper dna is also the owner of the prints on the real murder weapon(not an unbroken lightbulb), and is convicted of(or confesses to) Nona's death.... will Jones have a solid suit against the RPD, the prosecutor, the "state"?

I don't think so. Even the ones we see who were wrongfully convicted and then found innocent and released from prison, I don't think get to sue. They would have to even sue the jurors, I would think. That would get complicated. On some of the shows I have seen where some get a monetary compensation, some don't.

[guppie]

If it turns out that the owner of the condom wrapper dna is also the owner of the prints on the real murder weapon(not an unbroken lightbulb), and is convicted of(or confesses to) Nona's death.... will Jones have a solid suit against the RPD, the prosecutor, the "state"?

i don't live in AR, but my guess is no. AR brought prosecution in good faith.
what now? is KJ gonna get all "Joran Vandersloot" on us and get drugged out and start mouthing about how he is gonna get paid for what he's been through. oh palease.

you say "real murder weapon." if you don't think it was the lamp base, what do you think it was? i haven't heard anyone suggest that the bulb was a weapon, as you refer to it. hmmm, i am trying to figure out your comment.

[guppie]

Maybe he could get a bartending gig at Papa's Pub in Fort Smith. All the drunk lawyers I know hang out there. JMO.


sounds perfect. should we send in a reference for him? :beer:

[upallnight]

That light bulf was attached to the murder weapon, still do not believe that KJ touched it at discovery so I don't see any other way his print could have got there. The light bulb did not have to break for the base to be used as the murder weapon, how it was placed on the floor after the attack may clear that up. If what you say it true, would there not have already been an arrest? They could have easily put this together if that was enough to issue a warrant for an arrest for murder being they have this DNA. Not sure why they would wait if they have such evidence unless they need more. She was not sexually attacked. Just don't see how that condom wrapper over rides the print on the light bulb in blood, Nona's blood. If the DNA owner from the condom wrapper matched a print on the murder weapon yes, I think that person has some explaining to do. But why wait so long to bring this person in. I think a confession would change everything of course. I don't know, right now it is all if and and buts. I have heard of cases where there was money given to people wrongfully convicted. I have not heard of money being given to people for being put on trial. I would like to know if there are such cases. I just wonder if DNA matches a print on murder weapon and the owner goes to trial, will that be enough to convict anyone else, or will we all still have questions. Maybe that person touched the lamp for some reason other than to attack Nona. Lot's of people touch my lamp, not sure if so many touch the base but no telling how many prints are on the neck of it etc., guess mine is used alot not sure how much Nona's was used as a main source of light. Guess if it is a match, that person's alibi would play a major roll along with what was he (since the DNA was male on the condom wrapper) doing in her apartment and when. But then alibi's can be made up, so who know's? So many question's, I just don't know. :shrug: Hard evidence is what is needed. Maybe they had more on KJ than could be presented in court for one reason or another. Even if whoever was at the trial and got first hand information from being at the trial, again some evidence may not have been presented. I am beginning to wonder if there will ever be enough evidence to have anyone convicted beyond r/d. Put what the defense has found to date, plus the new S/Pro., will that be enough? As to date, nothing so far has been made public as far as an arrest, so again we wait............ We wait for Justic For Nona.
If it turns out that the owner of the condom wrapper dna is also the owner of the prints on the real murder weapon(not an unbroken lightbulb), and is convicted of(or confesses to) Nona's death.... will Jones have a solid suit against the RPD, the prosecutor, the "state"?

[christina]

That light bulf was attached to the murder weapon, still do not believe that KJ touched it at discovery so I don't see any other way his print could have got there. The light bulb did not have to break for the base to be used as the murder weapon, how it was placed on the floor after the attack may clear that up. If what you say it true, would there not have already been an arrest? They could have easily put this together if that was enough to issue a warrant for an arrest for murder being they have this DNA. Not sure why they would wait if they have such evidence unless they need more. She was not sexually attacked. Just don't see how that condom wrapper over rides the print on the light bulb in blood, Nona's blood. If the DNA owner from the condom wrapper matched a print on the murder weapon yes, I think that person has some explaining to do. But why wait so long to bring this person in. I think a confession would change everything of course. I don't know, right now it is all if and and buts. I have heard of cases where there was money given to people wrongfully convicted. I have not heard of money being given to people for being put on trial. I would like to know if there are such cases. I just wonder if DNA matches a print on murder weapon and the owner goes to trial, will that be enough to convict anyone else, or will we all still have questions. Maybe that person touched the lamp for some reason other than to attack Nona. Lot's of people touch my lamp, not sure if so many touch the base but no telling how many prints are on the neck of it etc., guess mine is used alot not sure how much Nona's was used as a main source of light. Guess if it is a match, that person's alibi would play a major roll along with what was he (since the DNA was male on the condom wrapper) doing in her apartment and when. But then alibi's can be made up, so who know's? So many question's, I just don't know. :shrug: Hard evidence is what is needed. Maybe they had more on KJ than could be presented in court for one reason or another. Even if whoever was at the trial and got first hand information from being at the trial, again some evidence may not have been presented. I am beginning to wonder if there will ever be enough evidence to have anyone convicted beyond r/d. Put what the defense has found to date, plus the new S/Pro., will that be enough? As to date, nothing so far has been made public as far as an arrest, so again we wait............ We wait for Justic For Nona.

You and I will just have to disagree on the light bulb.
Correct about Nona not being sexually attacked. The question has been asked and discussed here-could it have been consenual sex?
Wait so long to bring the dna owner in? Seriously? The complaint was rampant that they waited too long to charge Jones. With police focussed only on Jones is this case, its speaks volumes to me that a special prosecutor was even assigned. It tells me that this is serious evidence.
Agreed, hard evidence is needed. They did not have that against Jones so I hope they make sure before diving in again.
And I definitely agree justice is needed for Nona.
You did not address the main point of my question- do you think Jones would have a case against police/prosecutor when the murderer is convicted?

[lorettalockhorn]

That light bulf was attached to the murder weapon, still do not believe that KJ touched it at discovery so I don't see any other way his print could have got there. The light bulb did not have to break for the base to be used as the murder weapon, how it was placed on the floor after the attack may clear that up. If what you say it true, would there not have already been an arrest? They could have easily put this together if that was enough to issue a warrant for an arrest for murder being they have this DNA. Not sure why they would wait if they have such evidence unless they need more. She was not sexually attacked. Just don't see how that condom wrapper over rides the print on the light bulb in blood, Nona's blood. If the DNA owner from the condom wrapper matched a print on the murder weapon yes, I think that person has some explaining to do. But why wait so long to bring this person in. I think a confession would change everything of course. I don't know, right now it is all if and and buts. I have heard of cases where there was money given to people wrongfully convicted. I have not heard of money being given to people for being put on trial. I would like to know if there are such cases. I just wonder if DNA matches a print on murder weapon and the owner goes to trial, will that be enough to convict anyone else, or will we all still have questions. Maybe that person touched the lamp for some reason other than to attack Nona. Lot's of people touch my lamp, not sure if so many touch the base but no telling how many prints are on the neck of it etc., guess mine is used alot not sure how much Nona's was used as a main source of light. Guess if it is a match, that person's alibi would play a major roll along with what was he (since the DNA was male on the condom wrapper) doing in her apartment and when. But then alibi's can be made up, so who know's? So many question's, I just don't know. :shrug: Hard evidence is what is needed. Maybe they had more on KJ than could be presented in court for one reason or another. Even if whoever was at the trial and got first hand information from being at the trial, again some evidence may not have been presented. I am beginning to wonder if there will ever be enough evidence to have anyone convicted beyond r/d. Put what the defense has found to date, plus the new S/Pro., will that be enough? As to date, nothing so far has been made public as far as an arrest, so again we wait............ We wait for Justic For Nona.

Agree, why wait so long? Especially in light of the defense's grandstanding to the press immediately before the 48 Hours episode. Looks like that would have forced some action, then again, maybe not. If the condom wrapper was planted, the DNA donor possibly doesn't have a clue that he's the one being set up.

Still, I have to wonder just how viable this suspect really is.

[upallnight]

Ok, I agree to disagree.:punch: I don't know if he has a case when and if a person is convicted of Nona's murder. That is why I said I would like to know if there has ever been a case for being brought to trial and not convicted. I will have to do some googling, if KJ did not kill Nona and it is proven as so, if I was in that position I would think I had a case against police etc., but what legal avenue do they have to do so if any? That I do not know. If there is such an avenue, I am sure they will take it.
My main thought is Justice For Nona. All else will follow I am sure.
You and I will just have to disagree on the light bulb.
Correct about Nona not being sexually attacked. The question has been asked and discussed here-could it have been consenual sex?
Wait so long to bring the dna owner in? Seriously? The complaint was rampant that they waited too long to charge Jones. With police focussed only on Jones is this case, its speaks volumes to me that a special prosecutor was even assigned. It tells me that this is serious evidence.
Agreed, hard evidence is needed. They did not have that against Jones so I hope they make sure before diving in again.
And I definitely agree justice is needed for Nona.
You did not address the main point of my question- do you think Jones would have a case against police/prosecutor when the murderer is convicted?

[tiggergreen]

Kevin receives a wonderful text message stating Nona's love for him. Then he leaves around 10:30 and travels to Russelville and arrives around 10:52. They both get naked, but then Kevin finds a condom wrapper and they start fighting and end up in the living room where she is punched and hit. Then he finds a knife in the kitchen and proceeds to mutilate her neck and shoulder with seventeen cuts. Then he takes a lamp by the base and hits her in the back of the head.

At this point he panics and stages a scene by placing the condom wrapper on the counter, takes a shower, places her clothes near her naked body, wipes down his prints on the lamp base, but misses the blatant red on white bloody palm print on a bulb. He takes the stick, the cell phone battery and the knife in a garbage bag and leaves by the slding glass door. He then travels back to Dover where he makes a 12:05 phone call to Jeremy Huggins. That would mean he would have left Russelville by 11:43 at the latest.

I am ignoring granny's testimony as it is not stated in his original statement to the police and several have found it questionable. So we find that he has to have enough time to get her in the mood, then have a fight and then to stage a crime scene in 51 minutes. I guess some would say that it is possible, but I have a few things that do not seem to jive in my mind.

First of all, if I place myself in his shoes and I have been unfaithful to Nona just a week prior, I cannot see myself being in any position to judge her for her actions. Also, I would be far more angry with the guy or guys that were involved.

I find that I am more inclined to lean with another scenario in which a jealous person texts her "Why are you leading me on?" and then sees her getting together with Kevin (a stalker). He waits until she returns from her first final exam and confronts her as she is starting to take a shower. The fight happens as I state above and then the scene is staged and the frightened perpetrator flees into the hills.

But above all, I believe that justice will definitely be served - if not in this life - then in the next. One day, when Nona's mother joins her daughter on the other side, Nona will be able to tell her exactly what happened.

I find it sad that no one seems to want to give Kevin the benefit of the doubt. I am willing to do so. In fact, I feel sorry for whoever did this - murder is not forgivable in this life or the next (despite some people who believe in the contrary). He will have to pay forever...

Brent

[lorettalockhorn]

You and I will just have to disagree on the light bulb.
Correct about Nona not being sexually attacked. The question has been asked and discussed here-could it have been consenual sex?
Wait so long to bring the dna owner in? Seriously? The complaint was rampant that they waited too long to charge Jones. With police focussed only on Jones is this case, its speaks volumes to me that a special prosecutor was even assigned. It tells me that this is serious evidence.
Agreed, hard evidence is needed. They did not have that against Jones so I hope they make sure before diving in again.
And I definitely agree justice is needed for Nona.
You did not address the main point of my question- do you think Jones would have a case against police/prosecutor when the murderer is convicted?

Sure, the evidence should be taken seriously. Too bad that RPD was apparently misinformed about what could be obtained from testing the condom wrapper at the beginning of the case. Would you seriously expect Gibbons to complete this part of the investigation?

On what grounds would KJ have a case against the police or the State if they could be sued?

[lorettalockhorn]

Kevin receives a wonderful text message stating Nona's love for him. Then he leaves around 10:30 and travels to Russelville and arrives around 10:52. They both get naked, but then Kevin finds a condom wrapper and they start fighting and end up in the living room where she is punched and hit. Then he finds a knife in the kitchen and proceeds to mutilate her neck and shoulder with seventeen cuts. Then he takes a lamp by the base and hits her in the back of the head.

At this point he panics and stages a scene by placing the condom wrapper on the counter, takes a shower, places her clothes near her naked body, wipes down his prints on the lamp base, but misses the blatant red on white bloody palm print on a bulb. He takes the stick, the cell phone battery and the knife in a garbage bag and leaves by the slding glass door. He then travels back to Dover where he makes a 12:05 phone call to Jeremy Huggins. That would mean he would have left Russelville by 11:43 at the latest.

I am ignoring granny's testimony as it is not stated in his original statement to the police and several have found it questionable. So we find that he has to have enough time to get her in the mood, then have a fight and then to stage a crime scene in 51 minutes. I guess some would say that it is possible, but I have a few things that do not seem to jive in my mind.

First of all, if I place myself in his shoes and I have been unfaithful to Nona just a week prior, I cannot see myself being in any position to judge her for her actions. Also, I would be far more angry with the guy or guys that were involved.

I find that I am more inclined to lean with another scenario in which a jealous person texts her "Why are you leading me on?" and then sees her getting together with Kevin (a stalker). He waits until she returns from her first final exam and confronts her as she is starting to take a shower. The fight happens as I state above and then the scene is staged and the frightened perpetrator flees into the hills.

But above all, I believe that justice will definitely be served - if not in this life - then in the next. One day, when Nona's mother joins her daughter on the other side, Nona will be able to tell her exactly what happened.

I find it sad that no one seems to want to give Kevin the benefit of the doubt. I am willing to do so. In fact, I feel sorry for whoever did this - murder is not forgivable in this life or the next (despite some people who believe in the contrary). He will have to pay forever...

Brent

:seeya: No one willing to give Kevin the benefit of the doubt?? He seems to have plenty of buddies to party and drink and revel with. Parents don't seemed too alarmed about their daughters being in his company (if they know), his parents (or someone) are paying scads of money to clear his name. Sounds like he has a support system to me.

[hawgustusgloop]

:seeya: No one willing to give Kevin the benefit of the doubt?? He seems to have plenty of buddies to party and drink and revel with. Parents don't seemed too alarmed about their daughters being in his company (if they know), his parents (or someone) are paying scads of money to clear his name. Sounds like he has a support system to me.

Let's also not forget the 12 jurors who gave him the benefit of the doubt, as well as all the screen names (not sure how many different people they've represented, so I will just say screen names) who have staunchly defended him here.

[christina]

Sorry, was hoping that you had a link to the condom wrapper owner!!!

Isn't the State indemnified from legal action? Or I guess you know the answer to that and will give us your expert opinion.

Ah, saracasm-Lorretta, you are nothing if not predictable.
I asked that for two reason- one because I am curious to know, and second, to change the subject from the last couple of pages.
If I had to guess I would say Jones would have to prove the false prosecution of him was intentional. I do not think that is the case with Gibbons et al. It would also be very hard to prove. And like you said, the state is probably covered somehow.
Anyone know the Arkansas Code on this?

[christina]

:seeya: No one willing to give Kevin the benefit of the doubt?? He seems to have plenty of buddies to party and drink and revel with. Parents don't seemed too alarmed about their daughters being in his company (if they know), his parents (or someone) are paying scads of money to clear his name. Sounds like he has a support system to me.

Rumor has it the Jones are not paying anyone anything as they do not have anything left. The defense lawyers are doing it out of belief their client is innocent.
I can hear it now..... the jokes about lawyers doing something for free!

[Amy]

snip.....

First of all, if I place myself in his shoes and I have been unfaithful to Nona just a week prior, I cannot see myself being in any position to judge her for her actions. Also, I would be far more angry with the guy or guys that were involved.

....snip

Brent


You are correct that, KJ was in no position to judge Nona for being unfaithful to him, an unfaithful suitor. However, we have seen time and again in some murders (and other crimes) where, in fact this very thing DOES happen. Such as one partner thinking he/she can do whatever with whomever, but by gollies the other partner darn well never stray, never betray their relationship.

[upallnight]

[quote=tiggergreen;9093493]

I am ignoring granny's testimony as it is not stated in his original statement to the police and several have found it questionable. So we find that he has to have enough time to get her in the mood, then have a fight and then to stage a crime scene in 51 minutes. I guess some would say that it is possible, but I have a few things that do not seem to jive in my mind.

Maybe that should not be ignored along with a few more inconsistancies.

Also, I would be far more angry with the guy or guys that were involved.

Love and hate are in close order when you love someone, maybe the killer was more angry at her than him if this was to have happened.
I don't think if she was being stalked, this he person was stalking the him or him's, but was stalking Nona, his target of obsession, possession and anger. Maybe this person is the type to pick on the weaker sex so to say and to much of a punk to stand up to the same sex in fear he could get the crap beat out of him. I do not know, some tend to go by do as I say not as I do. KJ did admitt to having sex with someone else. I find this suspicious based on his statement that Nona and his sexual relationship was exclusive. But of course only Nona's personal relationships was exploited in court. I think there was more to this than what we heard in court. I can understand wanting to get to a loved one and try to help, but I do believe it is very suspicious for him to have so much blood on him when she was dead all along. Face up, face down, which was it according to KJ? He was trying to move a stiff body, why-for what reason? He was told not to twice from what I remember.
And if he was really so worried about Nona why did he not stop by New China to see if she was there with her little? It was right on the way to her house reguardless of which route he took. The date with the little had not been cancelled or the little would not have been trying to contact Nona. Yet, he passed right by the actual place she was to have been and went straight to her apartment where she ly in a pool of blood. Heck he could have cruised the parking lot at New China to see if her car was there and if it was be on his way with Mom to party. I tend to believe if he was that worried about her he would have thought to himself what all she had to do that day, surely he knew her schedule. Just don't make sense to me. Along with the fact she was testing that day so why try to get ahold of her while she was taking a test like L stated before? And it was never proven he tried to reach her as much as he seemed to be saying he did.

I am still waiting for this new Spec. Pro. to let us as the public know if there is or is not more to the story so to say. I have a very open mind, I just do not know how to avoid the evidence against KJ, and what seems to be a small mountain of lies and inconsistencies in his statements and actions.

I find that I am more inclined to lean with another scenario in which a jealous person texts her "Why are you leading me on?" and then sees her getting together with Kevin (a stalker). He waits until she returns from her first final exam and confronts her as she is starting to take a shower. The fight happens as I state above and then the scene is staged and the frightened perpetrator flees into the hills.

Was there evidence of a shower taken by the killer? Any blood found in this area? In the drain, in the shower, etc.????? I don't remember any being testified to. I remember seeing her shower in court with her shampoo & other items in the bottom of the tub and etc., but I do not think there was any evidence of a shower to wash away blood was taken. Please let me know if I am wrong but I don't think so.

I find it sad that no one seems to want to give Kevin the benefit of the doubt. I am willing to do so. In fact, I feel sorry for whoever did this - murder is not forgivable in this life or the next (despite some people who believe in the contrary). He will have to pay forever...Brent (Quote)
I don't feel sorry for this person, I believe if you take a life in this manner, you should have to give your own life. My heart goes out to Nona's family having to go through this and now they have to live without her for the rest of their life. Can you even imagine having to sit in the same room with the person you are being told that killed your daughter, and then to have to bury her and that person within reach, my God you talk about a strong person. People like that put other people's feeling above their own, they protect instead of being protected in these situations. And I am sure no matter what, this person will stand accountable and his/her eternity will be the decision of the Lord and they know that but I do believe they deserve to see this person brought to justice here on earth, I can only hope.

Give Kevin the benefit of the doubt?
I do think KJ has been given the benefit of the doubt. I also wonder why anyone doubt's he did it based on what I have seen and heard. So it goes both ways. I sure don't think bad of anyone who disagree's with me. Many months passed since Nona's murder and I gave KJ the reason of the doubt, once he was charged I still did, then the trial and the evidence was shown. I simply did not agree with the not guilty verdict based on evidence, that's all.
Why in the heck do you think we are all talking about this? We all want to know if there is more no matter who it points to. We are all looking at the evidence given, We may not all agree on his guilt or innocence but that is ok. Do you think we want KJ to be the murderer? Try hell no! But the justice system is what it is and the
prosecution provided evidence that points toward KJ in my opinion. That is why he was put on trial. If they find other evidence pointing toward another individual then I am sure we will all listen and look at that. That says to me I for one am giving him the benefit of the doubt, otherwise I would be saying, KJ is the killer I don't care what evidence they have and more so, what evidence they have to arrest and put on trial for another person. But I do care what if any new evidence they have. There is also a chance that further evidence could not lead to another person as the murderer, maybe it could lead to more evidence against KJ and another arrest warrant could be issued for his arrest with a different charge. Trials are based on evidence. From what I saw the jury found KJ not guilty based on not proven beyond r/d in their view, that does not mean innocent. I sure the heck don't know who killed Nona but I do know this, so far all the evidence brought forward points toward Kevin and I base my opinion on that and that alone. I am glad they are still investigating and look forward to knowing more on this investigation at hand. It may not change my mind, then again it very well could. It could just make matters worse for some.............. Who knows?

[lorettalockhorn]

Let's also not forget the 12 jurors who gave him the benefit of the doubt, as well as all the screen names (not sure how many different people they've represented, so I will just say screen names) who have staunchly defended him here.

Yeah, my attitude on Kevin not being given the benefit of the doubt is something along the lines of cry me a river.

[lorettalockhorn]

Ah, saracasm-Lorretta, you are nothing if not predictable.
I asked that for two reason- one because I am curious to know, and second, to change the subject from the last couple of pages.
If I had to guess I would say Jones would have to prove the false prosecution of him was intentional. I do not think that is the case with Gibbons et al. It would also be very hard to prove. And like you said, the state is probably covered somehow.
Anyone know the Arkansas Code on this?

Happy to disappoint you, but I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I originally misread your post to mean almost the opposite of what it says and edited.

Don't know how this applies in AR, but KuJo would have to prove that there was no probable cause to charge him with the crime. (Good luck, Kev.)

http://www.the-injury-lawyer-directory.com/malicious_prosecution.html

Most government entities are well indemnified, I believe.

[lorettalockhorn]

Rumor has it the Jones are not paying anyone anything as they do not have anything left. The defense lawyers are doing it out of belief their client is innocent.
I can hear it now..... the jokes about lawyers doing something for free!

Did you read Robbins' statement at cbs.com? It seemed like a thinly veiled plea for donations to the Justice for Kevin Fund to me. I do not believe for a minute that those three attorneys are working for free, I do believe that some hours have likely been volunteered or offered at a reduced rate.

[christina]

Did you read Robbins' statement at cbs.com? It seemed like a thinly veiled plea for donations to the Justice for Kevin Fund to me. I do not believe for a minute that those three attorneys are working for free, I do believe that some hours have likely been volunteered or offered at a reduced rate.

Have not been to the cbs to read statements. I still tend to believe the defense lawyers are not billing. After a trial like this I imagine lawyers, both prosecutors and defense, get close to the people involved. In court a woman sat next to Nona's mother most days, they seemed close. I found out it was a victim's person from the prosecutors office. I do not see it as a leap to believe the local defense lawyer has grown close enough to the Jones family to want to work on the case for free.

[christina]

Happy to disappoint you, but I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I originally misread your post to mean almost the opposite of what it says and edited.

Don't know how this applies in AR, but KuJo would have to prove that there was no probable cause to charge him with the crime. (Good luck, Kev.)

http://www.the-injury-lawyer-directory.com/malicious_prosecution.html

Most government entities are well indemnified, I believe.

This is probably accurate. The only thing I can potentially see (depending on who the dna donor is)would be the possibility that Jones could prove the rpd/prosecutor had "better" probable cause to charge someone else.
What makes so many things difficult is the poor investigating/collecting of evidence job that the police did.

[christina]

[quote=tiggergreen;9093493]

I am ignoring granny's testimony as it is not stated in his original statement to the police and several have found it questionable. So we find that he has to have enough time to get her in the mood, then have a fight and then to stage a crime scene in 51 minutes. I guess some would say that it is possible, but I have a few things that do not seem to jive in my mind.

Maybe that should not be ignored along with a few more inconsistancies.

Also, I would be far more angry with the guy or guys that were involved.

Love and hate are in close order when you love someone, maybe the killer was more angry at her than him if this was to have happened.
I don't think if she was being stalked, this he person was stalking the him or him's, but was stalking Nona, his target of obsession, possession and anger. Maybe this person is the type to pick on the weaker sex so to say and to much of a punk to stand up to the same sex in fear he could get the crap beat out of him. I do not know, some tend to go by do as I say not as I do. KJ did admitt to having sex with someone else. I find this suspicious based on his statement that Nona and his sexual relationship was exclusive. But of course only Nona's personal relationships was exploited in court. I think there was more to this than what we heard in court. I can understand wanting to get to a loved one and try to help, but I do believe it is very suspicious for him to have so much blood on him when she was dead all along. Face up, face down, which was it according to KJ? He was trying to move a stiff body, why-for what reason? He was told not to twice from what I remember.
And if he was really so worried about Nona why did he not stop by New China to see if she was there with her little? It was right on the way to her house reguardless of which route he took. The date with the little had not been cancelled or the little would not have been trying to contact Nona. Yet, he passed right by the actual place she was to have been and went straight to her apartment where she ly in a pool of blood. Heck he could have cruised the parking lot at New China to see if her car was there and if it was be on his way with Mom to party. I tend to believe if he was that worried about her he would have thought to himself what all she had to do that day, surely he knew her schedule. Just don't make sense to me. Along with the fact she was testing that day so why try to get ahold of her while she was taking a test like L stated before? And it was never proven he tried to reach her as much as he seemed to be saying he did.

I am still waiting for this new Spec. Pro. to let us as the public know if there is or is not more to the story so to say. I have a very open mind, I just do not know how to avoid the evidence against KJ, and what seems to be a small mountain of lies and inconsistencies in his statements and actions.

I find that I am more inclined to lean with another scenario in which a jealous person texts her "Why are you leading me on?" and then sees her getting together with Kevin (a stalker). He waits until she returns from her first final exam and confronts her as she is starting to take a shower. The fight happens as I state above and then the scene is staged and the frightened perpetrator flees into the hills.

Was there evidence of a shower taken by the killer? Any blood found in this area? In the drain, in the shower, etc.????? I don't remember any being testified to. I remember seeing her shower in court with her shampoo & other items in the bottom of the tub and etc., but I do not think there was any evidence of a shower to wash away blood was taken. Please let me know if I am wrong but I don't think so.

I find it sad that no one seems to want to give Kevin the benefit of the doubt. I am willing to do so. In fact, I feel sorry for whoever did this - murder is not forgivable in this life or the next (despite some people who believe in the contrary). He will have to pay forever...Brent (Quote)
I don't feel sorry for this person, I believe if you take a life in this manner, you should have to give your own life. My heart goes out to Nona's family having to go through this and now they have to live without her for the rest of their life. Can you even imagine having to sit in the same room with the person you are being told that killed your daughter, and then to have to bury her and that person within reach, my God you talk about a strong person. People like that put other people's feeling above their own, they protect instead of being protected in these situations. And I am sure no matter what, this person will stand accountable and his/her eternity will be the decision of the Lord and they know that but I do believe they deserve to see this person brought to justice here on earth, I can only hope.

Give Kevin the benefit of the doubt?
I do think KJ has been given the benefit of the doubt. I also wonder why anyone doubt's he did it based on what I have seen and heard. So it goes both ways. I sure don't think bad of anyone who disagree's with me. Many months passed since Nona's murder and I gave KJ the reason of the doubt, once he was charged I still did, then the trial and the evidence was shown. I simply did not agree with the not guilty verdict based on evidence, that's all.
Why in the heck do you think we are all talking about this? We all want to know if there is more no matter who it points to. We are all looking at the evidence given, We may not all agree on his guilt or innocence but that is ok. Do you think we want KJ to be the murderer? Try hell no! But the justice system is what it is and the
prosecution provided evidence that points toward KJ in my opinion. That is why he was put on trial. If they find other evidence pointing toward another individual then I am sure we will all listen and look at that. That says to me I for one am giving him the benefit of the doubt, otherwise I would be saying, KJ is the killer I don't care what evidence they have and more so, what evidence they have to arrest and put on trial for another person. But I do care what if any new evidence they have. There is also a chance that further evidence could not lead to another person as the murderer, maybe it could lead to more evidence against KJ and another arrest warrant could be issued for his arrest with a different charge. Trials are based on evidence. From what I saw the jury found KJ not guilty based on not proven beyond r/d in their view, that does not mean innocent. I sure the heck don't know who killed Nona but I do know this, so far all the evidence brought forward points toward Kevin and I base my opinion on that and that alone. I am glad they are still investigating and look forward to knowing more on this investigation at hand. It may not change my mind, then again it very well could. It could just make matters worse for some.............. Who knows?

Fascinating- I pegged Jones as probably guilty but tried to keep an open mind. After sitting through the trial, viewing the evidence(or lack of) presented, I came away believing he was innocent.

[upallnight]

Did you read Robbins' statement at cbs.com? It seemed like a thinly veiled plea for donations to the Justice for Kevin Fund to me. I do not believe for a minute that those three attorneys are working for free, I do believe that some hours have likely been volunteered or offered at a reduced rate.

This is how I saw it.
Many questions remain to me on KJ's attorney's actions:
Maybe KJ's attorney's are looking at %'s of any book deals, movie deals, etc., if any are to be offered reguardless of if anyone else is arrested and/or convicted. I do believe those attorney's have their own agenda along the way, whatever that may be.

[upallnight]

Happy to disappoint you, but I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I originally misread your post to mean almost the opposite of what it says and edited.

Don't know how this applies in AR, but KuJo would have to prove that there was no probable cause to charge him with the crime. (Good luck, Kev.)

http://www.the-injury-lawyer-directory.com/malicious_prosecution.html

Most government entities are well indemnified, I believe.

Thanks for the info. L, makes sense to me.

[upallnight]

[quote=upallnight;9093508]

Fascinating- I pegged Jones as probably guilty but tried to keep an open mind. After sitting through the trial, viewing the evidence(or lack of) presented, I came away believing he was innocent.

I understand, I thought no way could Kevin have done this, no way, but that changed.

[lorettalockhorn]

Robbins' press release, dated 2/7/08 (which rumor has it is the date of the latest KJ drinking party pix)

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/press_release_2_6_08.pdf

From The Courier:

Following McQuary’s appointment, Sutterfield ordered the record surrounding the matter sealed “subject to further order of [the] court following completion of [the] investigation,” citing the possibility that “the premature release of sensitive information surrounding [the] investigation” might jeopardize both McQuary’s and law enforcement’s ability to effectively proceed with the investigation, according to his release.

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=17620&Search=nona%20dirksmeyer

[lorettalockhorn]

This is probably accurate. The only thing I can potentially see (depending on who the dna donor is)would be the possibility that Jones could prove the rpd/prosecutor had "better" probable cause to charge someone else.What makes so many things difficult is the poor investigating/collecting of evidence job that the police did.

Really, yet they risked not charging that individual? Risked not finding justice for Nona? Risked leaving citizens in danger? Please, oh please tell me why?

[ifIwereU]

Agree, why wait so long? Especially in light of the defense's grandstanding to the press immediately before the 48 Hours episode. Looks like that would have forced some action, then again, maybe not. If the condom wrapper was planted, the DNA donor possibly doesn't have a clue that he's the one being set up.

Still, I have to wonder just how viable this suspect really is.

Did I miss something?
how does anyone on this forum or otherwise know if this suspect has or hasn't been interviewed....is there someone that is keeping tabs on the new Sp PA? or the RPD? or anyone else that might have taken over the investigation....maybe the defense had an investigator working on it...everyone seems to think that this new found suspect hasn't been talked to.....maybe he has and the condom wrapper has been explained....I think we all need to stop jumping to conclusions....

just because its not in the courier doesn't mean that things are happening...

[ifIwereU]

This is probably accurate. The only thing I can potentially see (depending on who the dna donor is)would be the possibility that Jones could prove the rpd/prosecutor had "better" probable cause to charge someone else.
What makes so many things difficult is the poor investigating/collecting of evidence job that the police did.

I think the RPD would have been remissed if they ignored the print on the bulb...especially considering Jones "didn't remember" touching anything other than the card on the table....and every inch of her body.....give me a break....you can't pass blame to the RPD..they followed the evidence given to them...and whether or not JOnes actually did the killing I don't know, but to blame RPD for thinking it was him is ridiculous considering how he conducted himself and for his actions at the crime scene.....he asked for it....IMO....he is partly to blame for why the case was in a mess to begin with....not just RPD...maybe he should sue his parents for not teaching how to behave at the scene....

[lorettalockhorn]

IfI were, I for one am clueless really. But since the special prosecutor was appointed some time ago, I'll assume that the defense has had the DNA donor's identity for quite some time, and that's why I think the press release was grandstanding.

I've tried to logic out the new information, and keep coming up with: a) the donor is either someone who is in the system because of past crimes i.e. a stranger to Nona, (unless she was consorting with a criminal), or b) someone who volunteered a DNA sample sometime in the past or in conjunction with this case. Honestly, I don't see Nona's murder as having been perpetrated by a stranger and I don't think that any of the players in the case that we know of are registered sex offenders. So that leaves me completely confuzzled as to whom the DNA can belong to. If it's someone who was originally a suspect in Nona's case, can it possibly mean that not only was he cleared at the outset of the investigation, but is still clear?

Guess maybe we might have to wait for the defense to blab, like they did earlier; naming a specific person to the media. However, if the special prosecutor names a suspect, we'll be able armchair detect him like we did Kevin.

[ifIwereU]

This is how I saw it.
Many questions remain to me on KJ's attorney's actions:
Maybe KJ's attorney's are looking at %'s of any book deals, movie deals, etc., if any are to be offered reguardless of if anyone else is arrested and/or convicted. I do believe those attorney's have their own agenda along the way, whatever that may be.


not to mention all the free publicity they got for a year....that paid huge dividends when they were able to get an acquital....most criminals look for attorneys that can find ways to beat the system....I'm not saying that Jones beat the system but your average law breakers want to have an attorney that can win a case and find loop holes in the law....
this is not the first high profile case Johnson has tried....how do you thing he got all the way to Russellville for Monticello....

[ifIwereU]

IfI were, I for one am clueless really. But since the special prosecutor was appointed some time ago, I'll assume that the defense has had the DNA donor's identity for quite some time.

I've tried to logic out the new information, and keep coming up with: a) the donor is either someone who is in the system because of past crimes i.e. a stranger to Nona, (unless she was consorting with a criminal), or b) someone who volunteered a DNA sample sometime in the past or in conjunction with this case. Honestly, I don't see Nona's murder as having been perpetrated by a stranger and I don't think that any of the players in the case that we know of are registered sex offenders. So that leaves me completely confuzzled as to whom the DNA can belong to. If it's someone who was originally a suspect in Nona's case, can it possibly mean that not only was he cleared at the outset of the investigation, but is still clear?

Guess maybe we might have to wait for the defense to blab, like they did earlier; naming a specific person to the media. However, if the special prosecutor names a suspect, we'll be able armchair detect him like we did Kevin.


well said, LO.....I thought maybe I had missed some reports somewhere...I'm like you....doesn't sound like a stranger murder to me....but my experience comes from a few years of psychology and reading John Douglas/Robert Ressler....etc....that doesn make me an expert....its just so hard for me to get over JOnes behavior at the scene....maybe I am reading to much into it....when I heard "ghoulish" on the 48 hours show I felt that more described JOnes behavior than Dipert's....

[TJEddie]

About that matching dna sample.....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17669936/

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks Gary Busey. :seeya: Imagine having to trail someone while you wait for them to discard a ciggy butt or something. And of course, there is the issue of chain of evidence. If something is actually obtained without a warrant, I would think that would present a whole new set of problems, especially if it's not LE who is collecting the sample.

[guppie]

You and I will just have to disagree on the light bulb.
Correct about Nona not being sexually attacked. The question has been asked and discussed here-could it have been consenual sex?
Wait so long to bring the dna owner in? Seriously? The complaint was rampant that they waited too long to charge Jones. With police focussed only on Jones is this case, its speaks volumes to me that a special prosecutor was even assigned. It tells me that this is serious evidence.
Agreed, hard evidence is needed. They did not have that against Jones so I hope they make sure before diving in again.
And I definitely agree justice is needed for Nona.
You did not address the main point of my question- do you think Jones would have a case against police/prosecutor when the murderer is convicted?


i answered this earlier and will again...No, IMO, KJ has no chance of any type of civil case to get money. his palm print in nona's blood is on the murder weapon. there was plenty of circumstantial evidence to bring the case, and his behavior in police video certainly makes him look guilty on it's own. like i said, just another Joran Vandersloot if he tires to make money off this. i think it would be reprehensible for him to try to get a pay off when all the police and the state have tried to do is get justice for nona. nona is dead. if anyone deserves compensation, it is HER family, not kevin.

[guppie]

You and I will just have to disagree on the light bulb.
Correct about Nona not being sexually attacked. The question has been asked and discussed here-could it have been consenual sex?
Wait so long to bring the dna owner in? Seriously? The complaint was rampant that they waited too long to charge Jones. With police focussed only on Jones is this case, its speaks volumes to me that a special prosecutor was even assigned. It tells me that this is serious evidence.
Agreed, hard evidence is needed. They did not have that against Jones so I hope they make sure before diving in again.
And I definitely agree justice is needed for Nona.
You did not address the main point of my question- do you think Jones would have a case against police/prosecutor when the murderer is convicted?

all that says to me is that the DA's office is making a smart and unbiased move. very logical. the prosecutor believes he knows the killer is kevin and that he has walked free. since he cannot be objective, the right thing to do is get an outside, independent attorney to investigate. it does not seem at all suspicious to me. this is exactly the right thing to do IMO. otherwise, they would be accused of not looking into it. this way they are covered. IMO kevin planted that condom wrapper, and it will only stack things more against him once the owner of it is revealed.

[guppie]

First of all, if I place myself in his shoes and I have been unfaithful to Nona just a week prior, I cannot see myself being in any position to judge her for her actions. Also, I would be far more angry with the guy or guys that were involved.

Brent

not to toot my own horn for a post i made, but you may need to read post #9180 to understand the mentality of a controlling, abusive, stalker boyfriend. this post was all my opinion and instinct. kevin exhibited every one of those traits to me in his 48 hrs "15 min of fame." a guy that is not that type does not think that way, therefore, cannot "place himself in those shoes" or "see himself in any position to judge his girlfriend's actions." if you are not that type, you would most likely not see this. get my point?

[guppie]

Rumor has it the Jones are not paying anyone anything as they do not have anything left. The defense lawyers are doing it out of belief their client is innocent.
I can hear it now..... the jokes about lawyers doing something for free!


as you stated, the Joneses have nothing left. costs a lot to get the AR version of the OJ defense team. i don't think for a second those attorneys believe KJ is innocent. they made tons of money off this case and got lots of fame defending him, and now they get to go on national TV if they claim there is a "new viable suspect." they aren't doing anything pro bono. they have charged the Joneses countless fees, and now they want their 15 min. of fame along with it. they probably are negotiating book deals and more nationally televised interviews as we speak!

[guppie]

There are no mounds of circumstantial evidence. The only evidence against Kevin is a "tacky", bloody palm print which the defense claims was made after discovering the body.

IMO, Nona's family has a good chance of winning a civil suit against KJ. civil suits do not require "beyond a reasonable doubt" to issue monetary damages. they only require a "preponderance of the evidence" to prove the case, and proof is largely based on circumstantial evidence in these types of cases
link 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preponderance_of_evidence
The degree of proof required depends on the circumstances of the proposition. Typically, most countries have two levels of proof: "the balance of probabilities" (BOP), called the "preponderance of evidence" in the U.S., (which is the lowest level, generally thought to be greater than 50%, although numeric approximations are controversial) and "beyond a reasonable doubt" (which is the highest level, but defies numeric approximation),

Layman's terms: preponderance means a jury only has to believe that it's more than 50% likely that a person took part in the action that caused damage and then can award money to the victim or victim's family.

link 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_evidence
A popular misconception is that circumstantial evidence is less valid or less important than direct evidence. This is only partly true: direct evidence is generally considered more powerful, but successful criminal prosecutions often rely largely on circumstantial evidence, and civil charges are frequently based on circumstantial or indirect evidence. In practice, circumstantial evidence often has an advantage over direct evidence in that it is more difficult to suppress or fabricate. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously inaccurate at times.
One example of circumstantial evidence is the behavior of a person around the time of an alleged offense.

this also reinterates my belief there was "mounds" of circumst. evidence against KJ and what i said earlier about eye witness testimony. IMO, how that blood print "appeared to the human eye" is not reliable testimony. the forensics on a blood print is what should matter. obviously, the prosecution should have spent more money on their blood expert. hindsight!

[sololobo]

IMO, Nona's family has a good chance of winning a civil suit against KJ. civil suits do not require "beyond a reasonable doubt" to issue monetary damages. they only require a "preponderance of the evidence" to prove the case, and proof is largely based on circumstantial evidence in these types of cases
link 1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preponderance_of_evidence
The degree of proof required depends on the circumstances of the proposition. Typically, most countries have two levels of proof: "the balance of probabilities" (BOP), called the "preponderance of evidence" in the U.S., (which is the lowest level, generally thought to be greater than 50%, although numeric approximations are controversial) and "beyond a reasonable doubt" (which is the highest level, but defies numeric approximation),

Layman's terms: preponderance means a jury only has to believe that it's more than 50% likely that a person took part in the action that caused damage and then can award money to the victim or victim's family.

link 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_evidence
A popular misconception is that circumstantial evidence is less valid or less important than direct evidence. This is only partly true: direct evidence is generally considered more powerful, but successful criminal prosecutions often rely largely on circumstantial evidence, and civil charges are frequently based on circumstantial or indirect evidence. In practice, circumstantial evidence often has an advantage over direct evidence in that it is more difficult to suppress or fabricate. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously inaccurate at times.
One example of circumstantial evidence is the behavior of a person around the time of an alleged offense.

this also reinterates my belief there was "mounds" of circumst. evidence against KJ and what i said earlier about eye witness testimony. IMO, how that blood print "appeared to the human eye" is not reliable testimony. the forensics on a blood print is what should matter. obviously, the prosecution should have spent more money on their blood expert. hindsight!

Could you list examples from this mound of circumstancial evidence? As far as his behavior around the time of the alleged offense, I see nothing incriminating, considering the circumstances.

[CSOKC]

i'm confused. in the post earlier you said you hang out with kevin some, but here you say you believe he is guilty. am i reading this right? please advise.
No, I've never met him and I definitely wouldn't hang around with him. I posted that a guy who partied with him put the pictures up, not me.

[ifIwereU]

all that says to me is that the DA's office is making a smart and unbiased move. very logical. the prosecutor believes he knows the killer is kevin and that he has walked free. since he cannot be objective, the right thing to do is get an outside, independent attorney to investigate. it does not seem at all suspicious to me. this is exactly the right thing to do IMO. otherwise, they would be accused of not looking into it. this way they are covered. IMO kevin planted that condom wrapper, and it will only stack things more against him once the owner of it is revealed.

I agree....Gibbons probably thinks or knows that he tried the right guy...he is probably like us, in that when he evaluates ALL the information he can always make it conform to his intrepretation of the case...making him bias...Gibbons probably looked at the dna info and said..."doesn't matter it was the trigger" but to be fair to all parties involved he did what any other PA would have done and let someone with no intimate knowledge of the case take over with a clean slate and start from square one....I wonder if RPD is involved? seems they would have the same bias as the PA....and anyone on the defense team would be biased into believing it was anyone but Jones...JMO

[ifIwereU]

Could you list examples from this mound of circumstancial evidence? As far as his behavior around the time of the alleged offense, I see nothing incriminating, considering the circumstances.

I'll start...and list one that was alway peculiar to me:

1) the "U alive" text he sent that afternoon

[WonderWoman]

Bashing Kevin Jones!!

[FDInLaw]

Like most, I am hopeful about the new investigation that is underway. Wherein, I am convinced that Kevin was the perpetrator that faithful day, I certainly am open to being wrong. Quite frankly, it would be a relief to have a new opportunity to find justice if a new primary suspect is named. This world is obviously less than perfect, and Nona's death is a blatant statement of that. . . it is still hard to stomach that her Killer is free. If Kevin is in fact innocent, I sure hope the new PA is able to determine and build a strong case against who did. God speed to him and all who are helping him!

That said, Gibbons has received quite a bit of flack (some from me loll) BUT he did take his time deciding whether or not to prosecute Kevin. He reviewed the case numerous times and had the RPD running for weeks. The other possible suspects were interviewed several times and timelines and alibis combed over. Prosecuting Kevin was not a rash act, and there is no way the Jones family would have a case. As mentioned by someone above, Kevin did not help the situation. Maybe Kevin is just a attention seeking idiot that felt the need to twist the truth so that people would feel sorry for him? Telling the police that they were "exclusive" and that he was about to purpose. He even had the victim's Mom so worked up that she listed him as Nona's fiance in the obit. Innocent or not, Kevin has an issue with lying, one might even suggest that he is a pathological liar. I'm trying to be nice, but do y'all see my point? He failed his polygraph miserably and many of his lies were easily disputed and some involved his ALIBI folks! Add the bizarre blood bath and bloody print. . . evidence at the crime scene suggested a crime of passion. . . Kevin really stuck out and I don't blame the ROD and Gibbons one bit for going after him. Enough said.

Like many here, I am anxious for the outcome of the present investigation. I sometimes sense that Kevin's supports think that the acquittal means that Kevin should no longer be considered a possibility. This is just not the case. Yes, the owner of the dna on the condom is being looked at, but if the new PA is worth his salt he will act in the same manner that Gibbins did. He will review EVERYTHING. Personally, I am extremely grateful that Nona's murder is getting a second look. Her family and community deserve the truth and I hope we get it. One thing I think is wise to keep in mind is that the case is really "up in the air" at this point. The PA may present a whole new case and suspect at the end of this. . . there may be another person prosecuted. However, it is also very possible that he will not. We all need to be prepared for anything. It could be that he will determine that the case against Kevin was the only course of action to be taken. This investigation could clear Kevin but it could also backfire on him. We'll have to wait and see. Either way, in the end I hope we all have a clearer understanding of who is responsible for Nona's death. :rose:

[ifIwereU]

Bashing Kevin Jones!!

were you trying to make some sort of point?

[FDInLaw]

were you trying to make some sort of point?
It's a broken record. . . . different day, same tune. "Poor Kevin."

[CSOKC]

I'll start...and list one that was alway peculiar to me:

1) the "U alive" text he sent that afternoon
I agree about that meesage being strange. I know before people have tried to say that that particular message wasn't anything big because it was like a joke between Nona and Kevin. I'm just not sure if I buy that. At the same time though, I can't decide if it really makes sense for him to have sent the message if he knew she was dead.

[ifIwereU]

I agree about that meesage being strange. I know before people have tried to say that that particular message wasn't anything big because it was like a joke between Nona and Kevin. I'm just not sure if I buy that. At the same time though, I can't decide if it really makes sense for him to have sent the message if he knew she was dead.
based on my limited knowledge of his personality....which I feel he is a narcisist...the text, IMO, was something he did sort of like a tuant...just like how he acted at the scene....it would have been interesting to see all the text messages they pulled off her phone to see if there was in fact other "u alive" messages....if it was a joke..there would have been more than one...

[hawgustusgloop]

Bashing Kevin Jones!!


I normally wouldn't just post this kind of thing, but since you insist.....IMO there is a decent chance he is a liar who got away with murder and who still seems to be getting himself in trouble. Also, that red sweater he's wearing in my avatar pic is just.....unfortunate. Red is not his color.

[WonderWoman]

I normally wouldn't just post this kind of thing, but since you insist.....IMO there is a decent chance he is a liar who got away with murder and who still seems to be getting himself in trouble. Also, that red sweater he's wearing in my avatar pic is just.....unfortunate. Red is not his color.


haha!!! i do agree with you about the sweater!!

[WonderWoman]

were you trying to make some sort of point?


That is all some people do in this thing!:shrug:

[hawgustusgloop]

I'll start...and list one that was alway peculiar to me:

1) the "U alive" text he sent that afternoon

Also, it was strange to me that he asked RW to check on her, then asked him to wait for him & mommy to get there so they could all discover her body together. Everything about that scenario is odd to me.

[CSOKC]

based on my limited knowledge of his personality....which I feel he is a narcisist...the text, IMO, was something he did sort of like a tuant...just like how he acted at the scene....it would have been interesting to see all the text messages they pulled off her phone to see if there was in fact other "u alive" messages....if it was a joke..there would have been more than one...
But what about the cell phone battery? Do you think he could have taken it after he sent that message? She wouldn't have been able to see the message if he had already taken the battery...I'm not trying to be argumentative about your points at all, please don't take it that way. I'm just trying to figure out the text too.

[FDInLaw]

Poor KJ, first his hair and now his sweater! ROTF! The kid just can't win!

[ifIwereU]

I normally wouldn't just post this kind of thing, but since you insist.....IMO there is a decent chance he is a liar who got away with murder and who still seems to be getting himself in trouble. Also, that red sweater he's wearing in my avatar pic is just.....unfortunate. Red is not his color.

Abercrombie & Fitch? Mister Fashion Statement....:tongue:

[FDInLaw]

Abercrombie & Fitch? Mister Fashion Statement....:tongue:

I thought it was American Eagle. . . not as cool IMO. :biggrin:

[WonderWoman]

Do you see what I am talking about? Bashing him! If your child was charged with murder, even though he was found not guilty, would you want other people bashing them? :no:

[ifIwereU]

But what about the cell phone battery? Do you think he could have taken it after he sent that message? She wouldn't have been able to see the message if he had already taken the battery...I'm not trying to be argumentative about your points at all, please don't take it that way. I'm just trying to figure out the text too.
first let me say that I don't get offended....this is a "share your opinions" site.....and I appreciate yours along with everyone elses

I don't think he sent the message before the cell phone battery was out....my thoughts on the battery are this:
why not take the whole phone? maybe it was because there was a message on that phone that Jones needed to be found...i.e. the message from Trey...this helps set up his (Trey's) contact with Nona that day....the battery was taken in the off chance Nona was able to pick herself up off the carpet and call for help...didn't want her to call 911 or for help....
he sends the U alive message to throw everyone off...because I mean who wound send that kind of message if they knew she was dead....then again maybe it was just a flute...he didn't kill her and sent the message out of genuine concern.....then just contaminated the scene out of sheer greif....

[ifIwereU]

Do you see what I am talking about? Bashing him! If your child was charged with murder, even though he was found not guilty, would you want other people bashing them? :no:

if my child were charged with murder...I would not let him run around dragging our good name threw mud just so he could drink it up and watch sex parties...I have geniune compassion for his parents...but not for him....he has never shown one ounce of remorse for what happened to Nona...even if he didn't do it....he is partly to blame for why her murder has not been vindicated....JMO...not to mention sleeping with her friends in the months after she died...GMAB......I do feel sorry for his mother and father...

[ifIwereU]

I thought it was American Eagle. . . not as cool IMO. :biggrin:

you're probably right....I don't have an eye for fashion...all my duds come from Wallie World...:biggrin:

[FDInLaw]

Do you see what I am talking about? Bashing him! If your child was charged with murder, even though he was found not guilty, would you want other people bashing them? :no:Awww. . . have a sense of humor! I'm sitting here in sweats and a warn Old Navy shirt. . . no make-up. . . kind of scary looking actually. Who am I to give KJ fashon tips?!! Sometimes a little joking around is needed to clear the air. :hat:

[WonderWoman]

if my child were charged with murder...I would not let him run around dragging our good name threw mud just so he could drink it up and watch sex parties...I have geniune compassion for his parents...but not for him....he has never shown one ounce of remorse for what happened to Nona...even if he didn't do it....he is partly to blame for why her murder has not been vindicated....JMO...not to mention sleeping with her friends in the months after she died...GMAB......I do feel sorry for his mother and father...

Ok. I hate this thing. It just keeps you coming back for more!

He is still partly a kid. Are you worried about keeping a good reputation? I dont understand, some of what you are saying.. Why would you want him to show remorse for what happened to Nona? If he had nothing to do with it...??? Maybe Kevins drinking is a way for him to cope with the loss of Nona. Now about the sex parties...that is just nasty and uncalled for!

[FDInLaw]

if my child were charged with murder...I would not let him run around dragging our good name threw mud just so he could drink it up and watch sex parties...I have geniune compassion for his parents...but not for him....he has never shown one ounce of remorse for what happened to Nona...even if he didn't do it....he is partly to blame for why her murder has not been vindicated....JMO...not to mention sleeping with her friends in the months after she died...GMAB......I do feel sorry for his mother and father...
Amen to that! KJ has done more to damage his image than all his "bashers" combined.

[WonderWoman]

Awww. . . have a sense of humor! I'm sitting here in sweats and a warn Old Navy shirt. . . no make-up. . . kind of scary looking actually. Who am I to give KJ fashon tips?!! Sometimes a little joking around is needed to clear the air. :hat:

I dont understand you people sometimes! :shrug:
But hey, everyone has opinions!
If I were Kevin, I would be laying low, even if I did not kill her.

[ifIwereU]

That is all some people do in this thing!:shrug:

well, you could start a blog in his honor......and ask everyone with similar views to join.....then you would not be forced to monitor this one

[CSOKC]

if my child were charged with murder...I would not let him run around dragging our good name threw mud just so he could drink it up and watch sex parties...I have geniune compassion for his parents...but not for him....he has never shown one ounce of remorse for what happened to Nona...even if he didn't do it....he is partly to blame for why her murder has not been vindicated....JMO...not to mention sleeping with her friends in the months after she died...GMAB......I do feel sorry for his mother and father...
Absolutely! You would think that if he didn't do it he would have shown a little sadness that his girlfriend of 5 years was murdered! Instead he sleeps around and lets his new girlfriends call him "Killer Kevin".

[WonderWoman]

well, you could start a blog in his honor......and ask everyone with similar views to join.....then you would not be forced to monitor this one

Forced to Monitor?? Excuse me?

[hawgustusgloop]

I dont understand you people sometimes! :shrug:
But hey, everyone has opinions!
If I were Kevin, I would be laying low, even if I did not kill her.

If I were Kevin, I would move to Alaska. Seriously. Just my opinion.

[FDInLaw]

I dont understand you people sometimes! :shrug:
But hey, everyone has opinions!
If I were Kevin, I would be laying low, even if I did not kill her.Agreed. If I were KJ I would be laying low and doing my best not to bring dishonor on my family. The Jones family have sacrificed a great deal to clear his name. The least he could do is behave in a respectable manner.

[hawgustusgloop]

Absolutely! You would think that if he didn't do it he would have shown a little sadness that his girlfriend of 5 years was murdered! Instead he sleeps around and lets his new girlfriends call him "Killer Kevin".

It sounds like he is reveling in his notoriety rather than being upset about his tarnished image. It seems like only his enablers care about protecting his reputation, while the one person who should care about his image, KEVIN, is out drinking, getting arrested, etc.

[ifIwereU]

Ok. I hate this thing. It just keeps you coming back for more!

He is still partly a kid. Are you worried about keeping a good reputation? I dont understand, some of what you are saying.. Why would you want him to show remorse for what happened to Nona? If he had nothing to do with it...??? Maybe Kevins drinking is a way for him to cope with the loss of Nona. Now about the sex parties...that is just nasty and uncalled for!

His actions at the scene have hendered the investigation and he should feel some responsibility for that....using alcohol or drugs is a choice...his choice...

[WonderWoman]

If I were Kevin, I would move to Alaska. Seriously. Just my opinion.


Explain please?

[WonderWoman]

His actions at the scene have hendered the investigation and he should feel some responsibility for that....using alcohol or drugs is a choice...his choice...


Different people have different ways of coping with the loss of someone!!!! I lost a very close loved one in Iraq last this past summer, and I am dealing with that in very strange ways!

[FDInLaw]

Explain please?She is not threatening Kevin in any way. Only suggesting that she would not want to live in the area after all that has happened. :rolleyes:

[lorettalockhorn]

if my child were charged with murder...I would not let him run around dragging our good name threw mud just so he could drink it up and watch sex parties...I have geniune compassion for his parents...but not for him....he has never shown one ounce of remorse for what happened to Nona...even if he didn't do it....he is partly to blame for why her murder has not been vindicated....JMO...not to mention sleeping with her friends in the months after she died...GMAB......I do feel sorry for his mother and father...

I no longer feel sorry for his parents; they could have broken his plate long ago. He continues to act in ways that bring shame to his family name. They seem foolish and dysfunctional to me.

He is still partly a kid. Are you worried about keeping a good reputation? I dont understand, some of what you are saying.. Why would you want him to show remorse for what happened to Nona? If he had nothing to do with it...??? Maybe Kevins drinking is a way for him to cope with the loss of Nona. Now about the sex parties...that is just nasty and uncalled for!

Because he loved her? Because he misses her? Because the relationship was cut short? Because he wanted to marry her? Out of respect for what was and what might have been?

Respect is the key; and he doesn't seem to have it for her, his parents, or for himself.

[WonderWoman]

Absolutely! You would think that if he didn't do it he would have shown a little sadness that his girlfriend of 5 years was murdered! Instead he sleeps around and lets his new girlfriends call him "Killer Kevin".


Now that is really.... DUMB, CREEPY, STUPID, INMATURE... need I say more?:confused:

[hawgustusgloop]

Explain please?

I think if I were Kevin, acquitted in a murder trial that was highly publicized in my area, and a whole lot of people were pretty sure I did it, I would get the heck out of town. I suppose I didn't mean Alaska specifically, just somewhere outside the area where he could be a nobody and start over. I'm not sure that would work so well for him, though, since he seems to have a hard time staying out of trouble in AR.

[WonderWoman]

I think if I were Kevin,acquitted in a murder trial that was highly publicized in my area, and a whole lot of people were pretty sure I did it, I would get the heck out of town. I suppose I didn't mean Alaska specifically, just somewhere outside the area where he could be a nobody and start over. I'm not sure that would work so well for him, though, since he seems to have a hard time staying out of trouble in AR.


If he ran, the wouldnt more people really think that he did it??

[FDInLaw]

Different people have different ways of coping with the loss of someone!!!! I lost a very close loved one in Iraq last this past summer, and I am dealing with that in very strange ways!So, the next natural question is "Are you sleeping with his friends?"

Seriously, you are digging yourself into a hole here. I am sorry for your loss. :( Maybe that is causing you to get too worked up here and a little break from the keyboard might be in order. Having dealt with a number of losses in the past few years I understand completely. Try not to let what is posted here get to you. If it is, take a break.

Hugs ~ FD

[hawgustusgloop]

If he ran, the wouldnt more people really think that he did it??

Would it really matter anymore, if he were living in another state? Is it really "running"? As far as I know, he is free to do whatever he wants, a fact that I find annoying, quite frankly.

[WonderWoman]

So, the next natural question is "Are you sleeping with his friends?"

Seriously, you are digging yourself into a hole here. I am sorry for your loss. :( Maybe that is causing you to get too worked up here and a little break from the keyboard might be in order. Having dealt with a number of losses in the past few years I understand completely. Try not to let what is posted here get to you. If it is, take a break.

Hugs ~ FD

I do see what you are talking about, but what I am saying, is that some people have different ways of coping. Im not saying that what is did was right, so dont get me wrong...

[FDInLaw]

Now that is really.... DUMB, CREEPY, STUPID, INMATURE... need I say more?:confused:
You didn't hear about this? CSOKC didn't make this up.

[ifIwereU]

I think if I were Kevin, acquitted in a murder trial that was highly publicized in my area, and a whole lot of people were pretty sure I did it, I would get the heck out of town. I suppose I didn't mean Alaska specifically, just somewhere outside the area where he could be a nobody and start over. I'm not sure that would work so well for him, though, since he seems to have a hard time staying out of trouble in AR.

does anyone remember a few years back the father that was accussed of killing his infant son in Russellville? he was acquitted by a jury....and you don't hear any stories or rumors about him....you don't see his name in the papers for being on the wrong side of the law....no rumors of him abusing alcohol or drugs.....who knows maybe he moved to Alaska...

[WonderWoman]

Would it really matter anymore, if he were living in another state? Is it really "running"? As far as I know, he is free to do whatever he wants, a fact that I find annoying, quite frankly.

Here is what I think....

Kevin Jones will ALWAYS be known as that person that killed Nona!!!

Am I right or wrong?

[WonderWoman]

does anyone remember a few years back the father that was accussed of killing his infant son in Russellville? he was acquitted by a jury....and you don't hear any stories or rumors about him....you don't see his name in the papers for being on the wrong side of the law....no rumors of him abusing alcohol or drugs.....who knows maybe he moved to Alaska...


haha. I needed a good laugh!! Thanks!:D

[hawgustusgloop]

Here is what I think....

Kevin Jones will ALWAYS be known as that person that killed Nona!!!

Am I right or wrong?

I could only speak for myself, but until and unless I see some convincing evidence that someone else did it or that Kevin did not, I'll probably think he most likely killed her.

[WonderWoman]

I could only speak for myself, but until and unless I see some convincing evidence that someone else did it or that Kevin did not, I'll probably think he most likely killed her.

I understand that. Hopefully we will find out something soon!!:shrug:

[ifIwereU]

Here is what I think....

Kevin Jones will ALWAYS be known as that person that killed Nona!!!

Am I right or wrong?

you don't think he killed her, so what do you think?

people think I'm a jerk....does it mean I am?

IMO unless new evidence indicates otherwise....