Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[FDInLaw]

He told 48 Hours that he had been calling Nona all day, but his cellphone records didn't prove that. Why would he be worried? Nona had an afternoon test scheduled and was planning dinner with her Little. He shouldn't have expected her to be at home, one of the things that made me suspect him early on.


Just to differentiate Nona's prints from anyone else's shouldn't there be some way to ascertain her prints? For instance, if she used birth control, wouldn't she be the only one who had handled the package? Wasn't there something in her purse or apartment that contains only one set of prints that can be assumed to be hers? She was never printed by an agency in case of kidnapping? Or was that just big deal when My Little Love was a youngin?It was my impression that the 48 Hours' show did not put much emphases on the evidence. It appeared to be mostly a chance for the world to hear Kevin's side. Nona sent Kevin the cuddle bug message in the morning, and he did not respond. When he started to "franticly" calling her, she was scheduled to be in an exam at 2pm. . . shouldn't he have known that she would not be available then? How about the lie about when he got to the gas station? Also, I was disappointed that we didn't get to hear from granny Jones. There were so many clips of Janice and NONE of Hiram speaking it was like she is a single mom or something. . . doesn't Kevin's Dad have anything to say??? Funny how it mentioned Janice yelling at the police station but nothing about Hiram. IMO it was not a balanced show. But, who knows, maybe Dateline's will be too slanted the other way? I don't envy the producers, they have to literally dig through hours and hours of interviews and stuff and try to make an interesting 40 minute segment. I was disappointed that so mush time was spent on presenting Kevin as a faithful and doting boyfriend when the truth is far from that. Kevin was the one that cheated on Nona first, yet all the world hears is that she was sleeping around. His messing around had been going on for years and they had even broken up after their High School graduation because of it. This was the issue that caused most of the fighting when he was in Fayetteville too. He knew that Nona was seeing other guys and it disappoints me that this was not driven home during the trial. So much of what Kevin said during the police interviews was out right lies. . . if you were LE, what would you have thought at that point? I still believe they prosecuted the right guy. We'll see if any new developments can change my mind. :cool:

[christina]

Just to differentiate Nona's prints from anyone else's shouldn't there be some way to ascertain her prints? For instance, if she used birth control, wouldn't she be the only one who had handled the package? Wasn't there something in her purse or apartment that contains only one set of prints that can be assumed to be hers? She was never printed by an agency in case of kidnapping? Or was that just big deal when My Little Love was a youngin?

You are using common sense/logic here. That is something, in my opinion, that was apparantly not used by police in investigating. Examples-when looking for the condom-pulling a toilet up without dusting it for prints.
The piece of evidence that would have swayed me (and possibly the jury)in Jones direction was finding blood in his vehicle. Again, something they never looked for-they didn't secure his vehicle. It is harder, in my opinion, to judge a person's motives(why he straddled her or didnt stop by sooner or why he didnt remember touching anything) than to judge factual evidence. Example- his palm print was on an intact lightbulb at the opposite end of the lamp base that was used to strike her-but not on the base.

[WonderWoman]

This thing is so addicting....

So, I have not read all of the board... I probably should before I say this, but I dont have time, so please dont get mad:o

On 48 Hours... The State's expert stated that the handprint on the lightbulb was not placed at the time of the murder. However BACON says up and down that the handprint was placed at the time of the murder. Now, dont you think that the expert would know a little bit more about the blood and the handprint than Mr. Bacon?? He stated that "tacky" to him meant, "wet", and that the handprint on the bulb couldnt have been placed at the time of murder....

I dont understand. Their stories dont go together....:shrug:

[FDInLaw]

This thing is so addicting....

So, I have not read all of the board... I probably should before I say this, but I dont have time, so please dont get mad:o

On 48 Hours... The State's expert stated that the handprint on the lightbulb was not placed at the time of the murder. However BACON says up and down that the handprint was placed at the time of the murder. Now, dont you think that the expert would know a little bit more about the blood and the handprint than Mr. Bacon?? He stated that "tacky" to him meant, "wet", and that the handprint on the bulb couldnt have been placed at the time of murder....

I dont understand. Their stories dont go together....:shrug:You must be mixed up. . .

Words are important here. This is how police and prosecutors described the texture of the blood: "tacky."

"It could have been tacky," Bacon said.

"The appearance of tacky," the prosecutor said.

"Tacky" would be a word that would course through the courtroom.

In fact, it created a huge problem for Tom Bevel, the prosecution's blood expert, because it contradicted his own theory that blood was put on the bulb at the time of the murder. "Blood on the bulb, on both sides, was placed there at the time of the killing, as opposed to some later time frame," he explains.
"If this blood is tacky, could it have been deposited on this light bulb at the time of death?" Schlesinger asks.

"If the blood is tacky, it certainly could not have been deposited there at the time of death," Bevel says. "No way."

But Bacon stands by his initial observation, and his word, tacky. "It was the best way that I knew how to explain it. Five days later when I looked at it, it had the same appearance," he says.

"When it would certainly have been dry," Schlesinger remarks.

"Correct," Bacon agrees.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/07/48hours/main3802230_page4.shtml

[WonderWoman]

But yet the expert still said on the show that it appeared tacky to him....:shrug:

[FDInLaw]

But yet the expert still said on the show that it appeared tacky to him....:shrug:
Please cut and paste what you are talking about. I only watched the show once and may not know what you are referring to.

Bacon is the one that used the word "tacky" and explained that the print looked that same days later.

Didn't the State examiner focus on the type of blood that was used (Fresh vs. coagulated)??? It was his belief that the print was made at the time of the murder IIRC.

[CSOKC]

Please cut and paste what you are talking about. I only watched the show once and may not know what you are referring to.

Bacon is the one that used the word "tacky" and explained that the print looked that same days later.

Didn't the State examiner focus on the type of blood that was used (Fresh vs. coagulated)??? It was his belief that the print was made at the time of the murder IIRC.
I honestly feel as if he had used any other word there might have been a different outcome. I don't understand though why the jury chose to ignore Bacon whenever he said that the blood appeared "tacky" five days later also.

I thought it was interesting that Kevin's father and grandmother weren't there too. I know that they had a ton of information to sort through and try to make into a 40 minute show...but I feel like so much important information was left out! Kevin creeped me out though, trying to act like the perfect boyfriend.

[FDInLaw]

I honestly feel as if he had used any other word there might have been a different outcome. I don't understand though why the jury chose to ignore Bacon whenever he said that the blood appeared "tacky" five days later also.

I thought it was interesting that Kevin's father and grandmother weren't there too. I know that they had a ton of information to sort through and try to make into a 40 minute show...but I feel like so much important information was left out! Kevin creeped me out though, trying to act like the perfect boyfriend.
Don't forget the photos of Kevin with blood all over his hands and face! :eek:

[Sasha1122]

I have considered KJ guilty since shortly after the murder for several reasons. Say what you like, evidence does not get much better than a bloody fingerprint on the murder weapon. It was "tacky" when it was discovered and it was "tacky" days after as well. KJ readily admitted to the police at the crime scene that he was a big fan of CSI and Law and Order. Did he take the care to preserve the crime scene? No. Face it, the guy was practically dripping with her blood. His face and hands were covered (I don't go for the "giving her CPR" excuse. If her body was cold to the touch (and it was) CPR would have been useless. Now, this guy can remember telling the cops he like CSI but he couldn't remember touching the lamp???

The whole scenario (with KJ and his mom turning up at her apartment) is just plain weird. Anyone who has a child in college knows what finals are like. Sending RW to check on her, stopping by with his Mom AND Whiteside....it is all just too weird.

The condom wrapper on the counter is also weird. Why....in the world...would anyone beat a girl to death but WHOOPS forget the condom wrapper he was gonna use but never did?

Very significant to me is KJ's behavior since Nona's murder. Hanging out with RW, drinking, watching another guy have sex with an unconscious girl at RW's house.....WOW, what a great guy! He was clearly upset about Nona's death, wasn't he?

What would really be interesting would be if the DNA on the wrapper turned out to be RW's. That DNA could belong to anyone. The murderer could have picked it up off the street and dropped it there (or placed it there when he returned later). Anyway....it may be nothing significant at all.

KJ is a very, very smart kid. I don't think he went there with the intention of killing her, but after it happened.....he knew what to do to cover his tracks. This is my opinion, of course, and I'm sure many will disagree.

I couldn't help thinking as I watched KJ on 48 hours how many times he commented on what a wonderful person Nona was, and how he missed her every day, etc. Very goody 2 shoes. Compare that person to the one who has spent the time since her death partying and hanging out with lowlifes who drink and use drugs. If someone I loved had been murdered and I had been acquitted of the crime, I would do everything in my power to live my life in a way that would reflect favorably on me, my family, and my murdered lover. In my opinion, KJ has reacted instead with arrogance which speaks volumes about his character and this crime.

[guppie]

hi, i'm a newbie. i saw the 48 hrs show the other night. the police really bungled the case. i can see how jurors could not convict with so many holes.

IMO the cellphone and the condom wrapper have so much to tell, yet the case focused on the bulb. i think the wrapper may have been the trigger. looks like the struggle began in the kitchen...phone on the floor, condom wrapper in sight, possible knife used at first. who would have "gone off" at the sight of a condom wrapper? hmmm

my questions are:
1) was nona completely dressed or was she partially naked to begin with?
ASSUMING she was partially naked and there was a condom wrapper in sight, and ASSUMING kevin did enter the apt before she died (he had his own key), he could have seen all this and gone into a rage. right? wasn't the kitchen near the door he had a key to?

2) where was the phone battery? did the idiot detective take prints off the phone before he gave it to the "cheapskate" stepfather? were anyone else's prints on it? well, maybe no one else touched it and she threw it at her attacker? looks like the phone dropped in a fight in the kitchen, yet she was killed in the den. seems this killing wasn't planned if the weapon was her own lamp. IMO it does appear to be a passion killing.

3) and what's with kevin not taking her door key with him that night? he says he had been trying to reach her, and he even called this ryan guy to go knock on her door. so why would he not have his key on him when he arrived?

4) when the police asked kevin what he thought happened, he said, "i think somebody just broke in." IMO he knew from being all around the apt (inside and out) there was no sign of a break-in. does that seem strange to anyone else that he said that to police?

5) kevin's own mother said he was "kinder, gentler" around nona (as if he wasn't that way usually?) the mother says that was "the way he always was WITH HER (nona)"...i found that very telling. how was he with everyone else then? anyone know?

since i am new, if i don't have the right info, please inform! thanks!

[lorettalockhorn]

I honestly feel as if he had used any other word there might have been a different outcome. I don't understand though why the jury chose to ignore Bacon whenever he said that the blood appeared "tacky" five days later also.

I thought it was interesting that Kevin's father and grandmother weren't there too. I know that they had a ton of information to sort through and try to make into a 40 minute show...but I feel like so much important information was left out! Kevin creeped me out though, trying to act like the perfect boyfriend.

Tacky was an unfortunate choice of words; in my mind, it meant that it appeared wet (and did five days later), but was never meant to be an actual measure of moisture. Obviously, Bacon couldn't touch it to determine if it was wet.

Very interesting that JJ is willing to present herself in the interview as frustrated to the point of shouting and causing a scene, but it was never brought up that Hiram was violent by throwing the chair.

I have considered KJ guilty since shortly after the murder for several reasons. Say what you like, evidence does not get much better than a bloody fingerprint on the murder weapon. It was "tacky" when it was discovered and it was "tacky" days after as well. KJ readily admitted to the police at the crime scene that he was a big fan of CSI and Law and Order. Did he take the care to preserve the crime scene? No. Face it, the guy was practically dripping with her blood. His face and hands were covered (I don't go for the "giving her CPR" excuse. If her body was cold to the touch (and it was) CPR would have been useless. Now, this guy can remember telling the cops he like CSI but he couldn't remember touching the lamp???

The whole scenario (with KJ and his mom turning up at her apartment) is just plain weird. Anyone who has a child in college knows what finals are like. Sending RW to check on her, stopping by with his Mom AND Whiteside....it is all just too weird.

The condom wrapper on the counter is also weird. Why....in the world...would anyone beat a girl to death but WHOOPS forget the condom wrapper he was gonna use but never did?

Very significant to me is KJ's behavior since Nona's murder. Hanging out with RW, drinking, watching another guy have sex with an unconscious girl at RW's house.....WOW, what a great guy! He was clearly upset about Nona's death, wasn't he?
What would really be interesting would be if the DNA on the wrapper turned out to be RW's. That DNA could belong to anyone. The murderer could have picked it up off the street and dropped it there (or placed it there when he returned later). Anyway....it may be nothing significant at all.

KJ is a very, very smart kid. I don't think he went there with the intention of killing her, but after it happened.....he knew what to do to cover his tracks. This is my opinion, of course, and I'm sure many will disagree.

I couldn't help thinking as I watched KJ on 48 hours how many times he commented on what a wonderful person Nona was, and how he missed her every day, etc. Very goody 2 shoes. Compare that person to the one who has spent the time since her death partying and hanging out with lowlifes who drink and use drugs. If someone I loved had been murdered and I had been acquitted of the crime, I would do everything in my power to live my life in a way that would reflect favorably on me, my family, and my murdered lover. In my opinion, KJ has reacted instead with arrogance which speaks volumes about his character and this crime.

Did Kevin actually attempt CPR?

Interesting that the company that KJ keeps was never even alluded to by 48 Hours; that he was involved with the orgy/drinking/drug scene, that he was arrested recently on the anniversary of Nona's murder.

Interesting that during the interview sequence(s), I noticed that Kevin didn't make eye contact with the interviewer. And he didn't admit that he and Nona had had other relationships for quite some time, yet hadn't they broken up over the issue in the past?

Kevin seems to be bringing only more embarrassment and financial woes to his parents. A better investment IMO would be to send him to Scared Straight Bootcamp (surely there is such a place!) or the military or a good shrink. He needs his ass kicked up between his shoulder blades.

[FDInLaw]

Welcome to Nona's forum Guppie! :seeya:

[guppie]

what was kevin arrested for recently? that's interesting. did he do so much partying before she died or just since?

wonder why 48 hrs didn't interview other friends? didn't they only interview the one girl who spoke out on his behalf. were there friends who testified that he had a temper or anything? he sure was beating the hell outta that chair knowing he was on camera. if you were being questioned by police, would you show rage in front of them?

still, what did his own mother mean by "he was kinder and gentler around nona?" what a strange thing to say. was he usually tempermental? has anyone ever seen him angry before?

seriously, what couple doesn't fight (as that one girl said in the police station) especially when they are longtime bf/gf and they are seeing other people off & on? that causes major friction even in even-tempered people.

i like the comment one of you posted about small towns...how everything gets around in 2 seconds. knowing that, it seems nearly impossible that kevin wouldn't have heard nona was sleeping around. come on. could be that he was in denial until he saw the condom wrapper?

[JustCallMeNora]

Maybe she already has??? :rolleyes:

What are you talking about?????

[CSOKC]

what was kevin arrested for recently? that's interesting. did he do so much partying before she died or just since?

wonder why 48 hrs didn't interview other friends? didn't they only interview the one girl who spoke out on his behalf. were there friends who testified that he had a temper or anything? he sure was beating the hell outta that chair knowing he was on camera. if you were being questioned by police, would you show rage in front of them?

still, what did his own mother mean by "he was kinder and gentler around nona?" what a strange thing to say. was he usually tempermental? has anyone ever seen him angry before?

seriously, what couple doesn't fight (as that one girl said in the police station) especially when they are longtime bf/gf and they are seeing other people off & on? that causes major friction even in even-tempered people.

i like the comment one of you posted about small towns...how everything gets around in 2 seconds. knowing that, it seems nearly impossible that kevin wouldn't have heard nona was sleeping around. come on. could be that he was in denial until he saw the condom wrapper?

Kevin was arrested for public intoxication I think. He was yelling at a girl outside and someone called the police.

As far as I can tell she wasn't dating anyone during the time he still went to Tech. Maybe he didn't know because it was only while he was in Fayetteville at school. Or maybe he did already know and thought she had already ended things...who knows. It could be posted somewhere else on the board, but there are far too many pages to dig through.

[FDInLaw]

What are you talking about?????Just an ongoing joke, nothing more.

[lorettalockhorn]

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=17630

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=17629

[guppie]

Kevin was arrested for public intoxication I think. He was yelling at a girl outside and someone called the police.

As far as I can tell she wasn't dating anyone during the time he still went to Tech. Maybe he didn't know because it was only while he was in Fayetteville at school. Or maybe he did already know and thought she had already ended things...who knows. It could be posted somewhere else on the board, but there are far too many pages to dig through.

if you're a 20ish college kid that is pretty typical. most have had a PI or DUI arrest at some point. but how do you know he was yelling at a girl? were you there?

what was his temperment before nona's death? why did his mother say he acted "gentler and kinder to nona" (than he did to others???) certainly someone knows how he reacted to nona dating others. i'm sure she told friends if they fought or he acted out. anyone know?

objectively speaking, what he did after her death could be a reaction to suffering. did he watch people jointly have sex at parties before and after nona died, or just after? i saw that story in the Courier. very unusual, but was that his usual behavior before?

[lorettalockhorn]

Has this been posted?

http://www.todaysthv.com/video/news/player.aspx?aid=60239&bw=

Schlesinger states that he expects to be back in AR in the future.

[CSOKC]

if you're a 20ish college kid that is pretty typical. most have had a PI or DUI arrest at some point. but how do you know he was yelling at a girl? were you there?

what was his temperment before nona's death? why did his mother say he acted "gentler and kinder to nona" (than he did to others???) certainly someone knows how he reacted to nona dating others. i'm sure she told friends if they fought or he acted out. anyone know?

objectively speaking, what he did after her death could be a reaction to suffering. did he watch people jointly have sex at parties before and after nona died, or just after? i saw that story in the Courier. very unusual, but was that his usual behavior before?
No, I wasn't there. That was all public information.

[JustCallMeNora]

Just an ongoing joke, nothing more.

And, let me guess..... I am the butt of it? Gee, thanks.

[JustCallMeNora]

No, I wasn't there. That was all public information.

Except for the part about him yelling at a girl. That was hearsay.

[lorettalockhorn]

Except for the part about him yelling at a girl. That was hearsay.

Nope. I've read the police report.

[hawgustusgloop]

And, let me guess..... I am the butt of it? Gee, thanks.

No, not you, it's just that someone a long time ago was really critical of the Courier and that person wrote a pitiful letter to the editor that made her look like a complete idiot. I still chuckle whenever I think about it.

[FDInLaw]

My bad Nora. :punch: One would think that with everything going on I could keep from wise cracking. :o

[guppie]

Except for the part about him yelling at a girl. That was hearsay.

yeah, i didn't think that part would be public info. is there much "hearsay" that he ever yelled at nona? (i mean, his momma acts like he was one way with everyone else and "kinder to nona"...weird statement i thought)

btw, i find all these postings really interesting. it keeps me up late!

[ifIwereU]

yeah, i didn't think that part would be public info. is there much "hearsay" that he ever yelled at nona? (i mean, his momma acts like he was one way with everyone else and "kinder to nona"...weird statement i thought)

btw, i find all these postings really interesting. it keeps me up late!

welcom guppie....yes, this board is quite addictive...everyone here has a different opinion of what they think happened that fateful Dec day...when you get up to speed after reading some of the posts (or may have already formulated one)...please share your opinion....

[lorettalockhorn]

"When I arrived on scene, I observed a white male yelling at a white female as she was walking northbound on Commerce to me and the male was walking behind her. The female appeared to be walking away from the male that was yelling very loudly to try to avoid him........."

"As Officer Collins spoke to the male I observed him to have bloodshot and glassy eyes in appearance. I also observed the male to become argumentative and refuse to answer Officer Collins questions. Officer Collins placed him under arrest and identified him through an Arkansas driver's license to be Kevin Jones....

........I asked Crytal why she ran from me and she stated that he told her to do it........."

[guppie]

welcom guppie....yes, this board is quite addictive...everyone here has a different opinion of what they think happened that fateful Dec day...when you get up to speed after reading some of the posts (or may have already formulated one)...please share your opinion....


thank you! well, a little to know about me is that i was a crim justice/govt major, and i am always reading or watching stories about true crimes. i try to remain as objective as i can. i know people get wrongly convicted, and then there are people like OJ who walk away. i try to listen to my gut...and right now, my gut says kevin did it (but i am not saying i couldn't be convinced otherwise).

that's why i am asking all these questions. i wanna see the other side.

[Brown hound]

[objectively speaking, what he did after her death could be a reaction to suffering. did he watch people jointly have sex at parties before and after nona died, or just after? i saw that story in the Courier. very unusual, but was that his usual behavior before?[/QUOTE]


I'm pretty certain that the girl who originally reported the voyeurysm was completely discredited after her 5 minutes of fame. There were so many falsehoods in that story, of course the closest thing to a rebuttal was on page 3 or 4 several days later.

[guppie]

"When I arrived on scene, I observed a white male yelling at a white female as she was walking northbound on Commerce to me and the male was walking behind her. The female appeared to be walking away from the male that was yelling very loudly to try to avoid him........."

"As Officer Collins spoke to the male I observed him to have bloodshot and glassy eyes in appearance. I also observed the male to become argumentative and refuse to answer Officer Collins questions. Officer Collins placed him under arrest and identified him through an Arkansas driver's license to be Kevin Jones....

........I asked Crytal why she ran from me and she stated that he told her to do it........."

so kevin is not so mr. nice guy. was he a "yeller" before nona's death? what quotes do you have on that? is there any evidence he was verbally abusive to anyone, esp. nona? kevin's mom seemed to indicate there may have been an issue. did you catch that???
did you see my earlier post? no one answered that.

[guppie]

[I'm pretty certain that the girl who originally reported the voyeurysm was completely discredited after her 5 minutes of fame. There were so many falsehoods in that story, of course the closest thing to a rebuttal was on page 3 or 4 several days later.

yes, but i wasn't referring to info that came from that girl (she obviously lost credibility by texting the guy after!) i was referring to the text that kevin sent from the locked bedroom to the girl in the hallway. he said he was waiting for them to finish and to hold on (paraphrase). that definitely indicates he WAS watching. i assume that text was seen by police and not just hearsay???

[lorettalockhorn]

[objectively speaking, what he did after her death could be a reaction to suffering. did he watch people jointly have sex at parties before and after nona died, or just after? i saw that story in the Courier. very unusual, but was that his usual behavior before?


I'm pretty certain that the girl who originally reported the voyeurysm was completely discredited after her 5 minutes of fame. There were so many falsehoods in that story, of course the closest thing to a rebuttal was on page 3 or 4 several days later.[/QUOTE]

I've never read anything official that indicates that their was no voyeurism that night. Remember, it was Chelsea Huckaby that started the ball rolling on that whole thing; why would she BFFs of such behavior if it was completely false? I've never read a rebuttal. Can you link us up?

Unusual is an unusual way to categorize aberrant behavior, if you ask me. And don't forget that alcohol was provided to minors that night, and we'll assume that the Whitesides didn't provide drivers for these revelers, wonder how many drove under the influence.

[lorettalockhorn]

so kevin is not so mr. nice guy. was he a "yeller" before nona's death? what quotes do you have on that? is there any evidence he was verbally abusive to anyone, esp. nona? kevin's mom seemed to indicate there may have been an issue. did you catch that???
did you see my earlier post? no one answered that.

If memory serves, there are several posts in this thread discussing arguments, possible verbal abuse, etc. I've never witnessed it; didn't know them.

[christina]

Did anyone catch the news tonight? I was told Channel 4 had a comment about the case and a fingernail. I have the dvr set for the 10 news.

[lorettalockhorn]

Didn't see it, but this is on their website:

http://arkansasmatters.com/content/fulltext/?cid=65555

[TJEddie]

"Another of Jones’ defense attorneys, Kenneth Johnson of Monticello, was equally cryptic when asked whether new DNA evidence on the wrapper would be significant in providing his client with what he called “the ultimate vindication,” given the theory.
“I don’t think [the trigger] theory’s going to make any difference when all this comes to light,” Johnson said, declining to further explain his statement....... “I think this thing’s going to come to a satisfactory conclusion,” he added."

I'm intrigued.

[guppie]

I've never read anything official that indicates that their was no voyeurism that night. Remember, it was Chelsea Huckaby that started the ball rolling on that whole thing; why would she BFFs of such behavior if it was completely false? I've never read a rebuttal. Can you link us up?

Unusual is an unusual way to categorize aberrant behavior, if you ask me. And don't forget that alcohol was provided to minors that night, and we'll assume that the Whitesides didn't provide drivers for these revelers, wonder how many drove under the influence.

i said "unusual" because i was being too "PC"...sorry. i am holding back. i will try to be more offensive. ha. now that i read this article again, it looks as if the police never saw this text i mentioned. looks like it was hearsay from the alleged victim's cousin. i am still trying to figure out why anyone would want "fame" from saying they were gang-banged. ???

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=13515&Search=kevin%20jones

here's the quote in the article:
According to the police report, Huckabay checked on the victim a second time and saw Whiteside allegedly having sexual contact with the victim while Jones allegedly watched. After Huckabay asked if the men planned on “just taking turns,” she was told to leave again, according to the cousin’s statement.
When Huckabay approached the bedroom a third time, she allegedly found the door locked, and according to the police report, text-messaged Jones, who was in the bedroom with the victim, Whiteside and Simmons.
“[The victim] and Jeff are still doing it hold on,” Jones wrote in response, according to the cousin’s statement.

[guppie]

I'm pretty certain that the girl who originally reported the voyeurysm was completely discredited after her 5 minutes of fame. There were so many falsehoods in that story, of course the closest thing to a rebuttal was on page 3 or 4 several days later.

i'm sorry, i misquoted you a min ago to someone else. you meant "fame" for the girl who accused kevin of voyeurism, not the one who was supposedly raped. sorry about that. wanted to correct myself!

[lorettalockhorn]

i said "unusual" because i was being too "PC"...sorry. i am holding back. i will try to be more offensive. ha. now that i read this article again, it looks as if the police never saw this text i mentioned. looks like it was hearsay from the alleged victim's cousin. i am still trying to figure out why anyone would want "fame" from saying they were gang-banged. ???

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=13515&Search=kevin%20jones

here's the quote in the article:
According to the police report, Huckabay checked on the victim a second time and saw Whiteside allegedly having sexual contact with the victim while Jones allegedly watched. After Huckabay asked if the men planned on “just taking turns,” she was told to leave again, according to the cousin’s statement.
When Huckabay approached the bedroom a third time, she allegedly found the door locked, and according to the police report, text-messaged Jones, who was in the bedroom with the victim, Whiteside and Simmons.
“[The victim] and Jeff are still doing it hold on,” Jones wrote in response, according to the cousin’s statement.

Thought it was Browhound who used the term "unusual"? :confused:

At any rate, it was my understanding that it was CH who went to the girl and informed her that she had been drugged and what else had happened when she was in the drugged state. I have read the articles in The Courier regarding the sordid mess and other than Simmons admitting to having sex with her (and his Jones-like doting/coddling family member writing a scathing letter to the editor of the Dover Times), I don't remember many other details. I do remember that she texted one of the guys, but don't know if it was before or after CH gave her the low down

I don't honestly think that she wanted "fame" when she told her story to the prosecutor, I think that she believed that she had been drugged and violated and didn't know how else to proceed. I've heard rumors that she and her family were threatened to drop the issue and I can well see that in light of her text messages that it would have been difficult to prosecute.

Am hoping that Brown hound will link us up with the "rebuttal" that was referred to.

[upallnight]

Did anyone catch the news tonight? I was told Channel 4 had a comment about the case and a fingernail. I have the dvr set for the 10 news.

It was on the 6pm news channel 4, said most of the same stuff except they had the fingernail but it had not been tested yet for DNA.

[upallnight]

Did anyone catch the news tonight? I was told Channel 4 had a comment about the case and a fingernail. I have the dvr set for the 10 news.
http://arkansasmatters.com/media_player.php?media_id=25663
Here is the link or if it don't work go to arkansasmatters.com and click on the 6 pm news.

[christina]

http://arkansasmatters.com/media_player.php?media_id=25663
Here is the link or if it don't work go to arkansasmatters.com and click on the 6 pm news.

Thank you for the link. The 10 news did not have it. That reporter looks like the one that was at the trial. The fingernail was missed by the police and crime lab during their investigation. The investigator cut out the entire piece of carpet surrounding Nona's body and sent it to the crime lab. When they were done, the defense was able to look at it and that is when they found the fingernail. If I remember correctly, (no, I have not found my notes?!?!) the fingernail was shown in a photo at the trial.
The report said McQuary will say something after reviewing the evidence-how long will that take????

[guppie]

If memory serves, there are several posts in this thread discussing arguments, possible verbal abuse, etc. I've never witnessed it; didn't know them.

i know i am new so i'm asking old questions, but help me catch up...ok?! thx!
do you have any idea around what pages the alleged abuse posts are on? i am familiar with the warning signs and was curious to see what people who knew nona said about her & KJ's relationship. i don't imagine it was all peachy like the girl in the police interrogation room let on (she said something like, "i was around them a lot & never saw them fight") -source 48 Hrs.
also, in my experience, males still "on the apron strings" tend to be abusive. i have read posts where people say kevin was "coddled" and his mother exhibits "bizarre behavior", etc. so i'm am also interested in finding posts about his mother. to me, that whole "accident" comment to 911 shows that in her gut she thought he did it. JMO the apple doesn't fall far.
i'm still waiting for anyone to address his mom's comment to 48 hrs about kevin being "kinder & gentler" to nona. makes it sound like he wasn't that way other than with nona.

you people post like madmen! (haha) so there's too much for me to go through and i need guidance. you seem to be the expert here. :)

[FDInLaw]

i know i am new so i'm asking old questions, but help me catch up...ok?! thx!
do you have any idea around what pages the alleged abuse posts are on? i am familiar with the warning signs and was curious to see what people who knew nona said about her & KJ's relationship. i don't imagine it was all peachy like the girl in the police interrogation room let on (she said something like, "i was around them a lot & never saw them fight") -source 48 Hrs.
also, in my experience, males still "on the apron strings" tend to be abusive. i have read posts where people say kevin was "coddled" and his mother exhibits "bizarre behavior", etc. so i'm am also interested in finding posts about his mother. to me, that whole "accident" comment to 911 shows that in her gut she thought he did it. JMO the apple doesn't fall far.
i'm still waiting for anyone to address his mom's comment to 48 hrs about kevin being "kinder & gentler" to nona. makes it sound like he wasn't that way other than with nona.

you people post like madmen! (haha) so there's too much for me to go through and i need guidance. you seem to be the expert here. :)This fine forum is years in the making. :)

One thing that has rung true these past few days is the power of the media, and that a first impression is all you get. There was a thread over on the pageant site ripping Adrielle for being a "cold fish." And of course the long litany of "creepy" step-father comments. Some posters on the 48 Hours site are even going so far as to state that Nona's own Mother killed her. And now, Janice is under the microscope! Let's be careful not to digress like the other boards. The harsh comments are ironic in light of the fact that we are all waiting to know whose dna is on the condom wrapper and all such comments might be rendered asinine in a matter of weeks.

A positive word about Janice, she sure seems devoted to her son. Guilty or not, Kevin is fortunate to have a Mother that will stand up for him. :rose:

[Leroy L]

if you're a 20ish college kid that is pretty typical. most have had a PI or DUI arrest at some point.

Wow.
I don't think so.


Anyway, I was curious if anyone else was bothered by the juror who said that KJ was innocent (with absolute conviction in her eye and tone). Even though I believe he is the perpetrator, I can allow how some folks say there wasn't enough evidence to convict (and thus, say he is not guilty). But to state so firmly that KJ is innocent leaves me with a lingering concern. Did she truly judge facts and come to a reasoned decision? Are there techniques to cull potential jurors like this, such as psychological profiling? And if so, did the prosection miss the boat with her?

[FDInLaw]

Wow.
I don't think so.


Anyway, I was curious if anyone else was bothered by the juror who said that KJ was innocent (with absolute conviction in her eye and tone). Even though I believe he is the perpetrator, I can allow how some folks say there wasn't enough evidence to convict (and thus, say he is not guilty). But to state so firmly that KJ is innocent leaves me with a lingering concern. Did she truly judge facts and come to a reasoned decision? Are there techniques to cull potential jurors like this, such as psychological profiling? And if so, did the prosection miss the boat with her?Me thinks guppie is "20ish" and not an old fart like us lol! :biggrin:

To answer your question, yes it did concern me. I wonder if she was the person that wanted everyone to pray together?

[CSOKC]

Me thinks guppie is "20ish" and not an old fart like us lol! :biggrin:

To answer your question, yes it did concern me. I wonder if she was the person that wanted everyone to pray together?
I wondered the same thing. I also want to know what made the jurors that wanted to vote guilty change their minds?

[lorettalockhorn]

Wow.
I don't think so.


Anyway, I was curious if anyone else was bothered by the juror who said that KJ was innocent (with absolute conviction in her eye and tone). Even though I believe he is the perpetrator, I can allow how some folks say there wasn't enough evidence to convict (and thus, say he is not guilty). But to state so firmly that KJ is innocent leaves me with a lingering concern. Did she truly judge facts and come to a reasoned decision? Are there techniques to cull potential jurors like this, such as psychological profiling? And if so, did the prosection miss the boat with her?


I take issue with guppie's use of the word most when enumerating kids with PIs and DUIs, etc. And it is interesting that the jury differentiated between "not guilty" and "innocent".

Guppie, re: your question about the location of posts, you might want to take advantage of the search function located near the top right of the page. Click it and then click advanced search, choose your keyword, choose Nona's forum, and click show as posts. That might help answer your questions until you've had time to catch up.

[Leroy L]

A positive word about Janice, she sure seems devoted to her son. Guilty or not, Kevin is fortunate to have a Mother that will stand up for him.

This is my day to be a contrarian.
FDInLaw, your sentiment expressed above is kind. To be honest, I'm left wondering if there hasn't been a whole lot of "standing up for" over the years when a little more "not putting up with" might have been more fortuante for KJ. Don't know anything about the family history or their interaction. But KJ didn't just blossom into the sweet flower he is overnight.

[FDInLaw]

This is my day to be a contrarian.
FDInLaw, your sentiment expressed above is kind. To be honest, I'm left wondering if there hasn't been a whole lot of "standing up for" over the years when a little more "not putting up with" might have been more fortuante for KJ. Don't know anything about the family history or their interaction. But KJ didn't just blossom into the sweet flower he is overnight.
I'm not going to argue with that. . . this was my sentiment for all the boys involved with the alleged rape. Maybe the fact that Janice is so willing to stand up for KJ is not really a "positive" and some tough love is really what's in order. The truth is, I just don't know. The reason I posted that was just to offer a kind word. . . the trolls are out in force and I'm determined not to be one of them. I love ifIwereU's sig. . . it's so true.

[hawgustusgloop]

I'm pretty certain that the girl who originally reported the voyeurysm was completely discredited after her 5 minutes of fame. There were so many falsehoods in that story, of course the closest thing to a rebuttal was on page 3 or 4 several days later.

???? Although you are "pretty certain," let's not get too carried away here. If I recall correctly, Jeff Simmons admitted to essentially every part of the story EXCEPT drugging the accuser and raping her. I thought he admitted KJ and RW watched but that the girl consented.

I could be wrong, though.

[lorettalockhorn]

???? Although you are "pretty certain," let's not get too carried away here. If I recall correctly, Jeff Simmons admitted to essentially every part of the story EXCEPT drugging the accuser and raping her. I thought he admitted KJ and RW watched but that the girl consented.

I could be wrong, though.

True dat. That's why I couldn't believe the idiotic letter to the editor signed by "The Simmons Family" or whatever the moniker was.

Still hoping that Brown hound will post a link to the rebuttal referred to. I haven't found it yet.

Apologies to Brown hound for misspelling your username last night, believe it or not it was worse, just had on the wrong glasses and couldn't get it fixed. :punch:

[guppie]

Guppie, re: your question about the location of posts, you might want to take advantage of the search function located near the top right of the page. Click it and then click advanced search, choose your keyword, choose Nona's forum, and click show as posts. That might help answer your questions until you've had time to catch up.


thank you. bear with me. i will ge the hang of it!

[guppie]

Me thinks guppie is "20ish" and not an old fart like us lol! :biggrin:

To answer your question, yes it did concern me. I wonder if she was the person that wanted everyone to pray together?

haha. no, i am an old fart (damn)...37! i'm a retired teacher (us govt). shoulda gone to law school when i had the chance, but got married and had a baby instead (back when i WAS 20ish!)

apologies to loretta...my word "most" was inappropriate. i went to ole miss...the unofficial DUI capital of america! so i have to admit, i had a PI at one point for no good reason and knew many who had the same. however, "most" probably does apply to ole miss students and not the entire population. ha

too bad you guys aren't the investigators in this case! good job!

[guppie]

This fine forum is years in the making. :)

One thing that has rung true these past few days is the power of the media, and that a first impression is all you get. There was a thread over on the pageant site ripping Adrielle for being a "cold fish." And of course the long litany of "creepy" step-father comments. Some posters on the 48 Hours site are even going so far as to state that Nona's own Mother killed her. And now, Janice is under the microscope! Let's be careful not to digress like the other boards. The harsh comments are ironic in light of the fact that we are all waiting to know whose dna is on the condom wrapper and all such comments might be rendered asinine in a matter of weeks.

A positive word about Janice, she sure seems devoted to her son. Guilty or not, Kevin is fortunate to have a Mother that will stand up for him. :rose:

i wasn't attacking his mother. apologies if it came across that way. i was asking questions about the mother. i wanted to see if there was an insider who had knowledge of kevin's relationship with his mother. there are not any "wrong questions" in here. i base that question on what his own mother said in her taped segment on 48 hrs...it was clearly an odd statement to make about your own child...go check your DVR for it. and sometimes overprotective mothers are the worst kind...sometimes!

am i being accused of causing the board to digress? i am simply trying to catch up to where ya'll are. give me a little time, ok? i like to debate. just debate with me. don't insult me. thanks.

[hawgustusgloop]

Wow.
I don't think so.


Anyway, I was curious if anyone else was bothered by the juror who said that KJ was innocent (with absolute conviction in her eye and tone). Even though I believe he is the perpetrator, I can allow how some folks say there wasn't enough evidence to convict (and thus, say he is not guilty). But to state so firmly that KJ is innocent leaves me with a lingering concern. Did she truly judge facts and come to a reasoned decision? Are there techniques to cull potential jurors like this, such as psychological profiling? And if so, did the prosection miss the boat with her?

I don't know who the jurors were that were shown, but there were three print interviews with jurors right after the trial. The impression I got from all three of those jurors was that they all believed he was INNOCENT. Maybe I'll go try to dig up those quotes.

[FDInLaw]

i wasn't attacking his mother. apologies if it came across that way. i was asking questions about the mother. i wanted to see if there was an insider who had knowledge of kevin's relationship with his mother. there are not any "wrong questions" in here. i base that question on what his own mother said in her taped segment on 48 hrs...it was clearly an odd statement to make about your own child...go check your DVR for it. and sometimes overprotective mothers are the worst kind...sometimes!

am i being accused of causing the board to digress? i am simply trying to catch up to where ya'll are. give me a little time, ok? i like to debate. just debate with me. don't insult me. thanks.No, you are not being accused of anything. I'm sure if you look you can find posts where I asked the same questions. I'm sorry if I came off as snippy, it's just when things "digress" against the Jones family I'm the one that has to deal with an in-box of nasty comments.

It's great to have fresh perspectives on the case and I'm very pleased to be younger than you (hehehe). Welcome! :seeya:

[hawgustusgloop]

Here is an old article with juror interviews:

http://www.couriernews.com/archivedstory.php?ID=15610

[guppie]

No, you are not being accused of anything. I'm sure if you look you can find posts where I asked the same questions. I'm sorry if I came off as snippy, it's just when things "digress" against the Jones family I'm the one that has to deal with an in-box of nasty comments.

It's great to have fresh perspectives on the case and I'm very pleased to be younger than you (hehehe). Welcome! :seeya:

oh gee, thanks! now i REALLY feel much better! i'm OLD. ha
well, i am going back and doing the reading so i won't drive ya'll nuts. guess it will take about 10 pgs a day to catch up IN A MONTH. i am just trying not to rush to judgment and weigh all the info. at the moment, i do think he is guilty, but that's not to say i couldn't be convinced otherwise. i only have about 1/10th of the info i really need to make a definite determination on my absolute opinion.

i don't put too much emphasis on kids in their 20s doing recreational drugs every now and then or getting a PI. ole miss had tons of that stuff and most of my friends turned out fine. i do, however, have more opinions about overprotective mothers and verbally abusive men. i do not know yet if those are issues here. i will figure that out by reading more.

thanks for allowing me to join in.

[lorettalockhorn]

haha. no, i am an old fart (damn)...37! i'm a retired teacher (us govt). shoulda gone to law school when i had the chance, but got married and had a baby instead (back when i WAS 20ish!)

apologies to loretta...my word "most" was inappropriate. i went to ole miss...the unofficial DUI capital of america! so i have to admit, i had a PI at one point for no good reason and knew many who had the same. however, "most" probably does apply to ole miss students and not the entire population. ha

too bad you guys aren't the investigators in this case! good job!

My Little Love is in grad school at Ole Miss and he says the drinking culture is much more accepted than it was when he was in school in FayetteNam; it's amazing the tacit acceptance of drinking in the streets. I guess that rule about not being able to buy cold beer is supposed to stem the tide.

If I was going to start trying to catch up with this thread, I would probably start right around the time of the trial, maybe around P120 or so. Also, I believe that jonikay had some posts about alleged abuse, you might search her name; use the search function (don't bother with advanced), type in her name, I think I have it spelled correctly, you'll know when you have it spelled right, the board will acknowledge it. Click "show posts" in Nona's forum.

[lorettalockhorn]

No, you are not being accused of anything. I'm sure if you look you can find posts where I asked the same questions. I'm sorry if I came off as snippy, it's just when things "digress" against the Jones family I'm the one that has to deal with an in-box of nasty comments.

It's great to have fresh perspectives on the case and I'm very pleased to be younger than you (hehehe). Welcome! :seeya:

Why would people harass you because others think that the Joneses are lousy parents and should send him to a shrink instead of buying him a new truck? Although, to be fair, it's possible that they don't know about all of his shenanigans.

Can you block people?

[guppie]

Here is an old article with juror interviews:

http://www.couriernews.com/archivedstory.php?ID=15610

thanks for the link. i read it. wanna laugh and scream at this idiot juror's (carol chambers) quote! OMG
“For example, his grandmother. She seemed like a very Christian lady ... I can’t believe people who are Christians will lie.”

ok, here is my "fresh and new" opinion for ya'll...
are you f-ing kidding?!!! Christians won't lie???!!!

wonder what would have been the verdict in LA or NY? hmmm

[FDInLaw]

thanks for the link. i read it. wanna laugh and scream at this idiot juror's (carol chambers) quote! OMG
“For example, his grandmother. She seemed like a very Christian lady ... I can’t believe people who are Christians will lie.”

ok, here is my "fresh and new" opinion for ya'll...
are you f-ing kidding?!!! Christians won't lie???!!!

wonder what would have been the verdict in LA or NY? hmmmYep. That comment was hard to stomach. :cool:

[Amy]

haha. no, i am an old fart (damn)...37! i'm a retired teacher (us govt). shoulda gone to law school when i had the chance, but got married and had a baby instead (back when i WAS 20ish!)

apologies to loretta...my word "most" was inappropriate. i went to ole miss...the unofficial DUI capital of america! so i have to admit, i had a PI at one point for no good reason and knew many who had the same. however, "most" probably does apply to ole miss students and not the entire population. ha

too bad you guys aren't the investigators in this case! good job!

I know what a DUI is, but what is a PI? TIA

[lorettalockhorn]

I know what a DUI is, but what is a PI? TIA

Hey Amy! I think it's MississipPI lingo for public intoxication.

[Amy]

Here is an old article with juror interviews:

http://www.couriernews.com/archivedstory.php?ID=15610


Thanks for the link.

We all know there are people who CAN and DO commit murder, then go on about their lives like not a thing has happened. He didn't have long to "act normal," and, around who? He wasn't around people for very long before going home to get ready for the Christmas party. And, IMO, it IS "strange" behaviour for a fellow to get all worried about where is girl is, when half the time he allegedly is trying to contact her, she would have been taking exams. And, was it his wont to call a buddy to check on his girl in other circumstances? I don't think so, cuz I remember there being a report about where Whiteside was confused about why he (KJ) would have him (RW) checking up on her.

If they were concerned about lying--what about KJ lying about calls made to Nona? He SAID he called and called and....but phone records seem to contradict that.

As for a Christian lady wouldn't lie.. Well, I know a lot of what I would call "church ladies" who in actuallity HAVE lied when they deemed it necessary. Not just little white lies, but pretty big ones, like fudging on taxes and that sort of thing. Now, I don't know a thing about Grandma Jones, so I wouldn't know what category to put her in, but for the jurors to think that, just because she is a Christian, she wouldn't lie.

As for Jones being at the station within hours of finding that his g/f of "many years" is dead. That is how it is done. Those close to the deceased are questioned. Pity for him to be in that circumstance isn't what should have been considered, but his actions and words. IMO.

[Amy]

Hey Amy! I think it's MississipPI lingo for public intoxication.

Ahh. Makes sense. I don't think that is used much at all here. The notations in the police blotter are underage drinking, contributing to a minor, etc. Guess the public intoxications end up in fights or something, as that is usually what else is listed---battery, assault and battery, etc.

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks for the link.

We all know there are people who CAN and DO commit murder, then go on about their lives like not a thing has happened. He didn't have long to "act normal," and, around who? He wasn't around people for very long before going home to get ready for the Christmas party. And, IMO, it IS "strange" behaviour for a fellow to get all worried about where is girl is, when half the time he allegedly is trying to contact her, she would have been taking exams. And, was it his wont to call a buddy to check on his girl in other circumstances? I don't think so, cuz I remember there being a report about where Whiteside was confused about why he (KJ) would have him (RW) checking up on her.

If they were concerned about lying--what about KJ lying about calls made to Nona? He SAID he called and called and....but phone records seem to contradict that.

As for a Christian lady wouldn't lie.. Well, I know a lot of what I would call "church ladies" who in actuallity HAVE lied when they deemed it necessary. Not just little white lies, but pretty big ones, like fudging on taxes and that sort of thing. Now, I don't know a thing about Grandma Jones, so I wouldn't know what category to put her in, but for the jurors to think that, just because she is a Christian, she wouldn't lie.
As for Jones being at the station within hours of finding that his g/f of "many years" is dead. That is how it is done. Those close to the deceased are questioned. Pity for him to be in that circumstance isn't what should have been considered, but his actions and words. IMO.

Not to mention all the Christians, ladies and otherwise, who have actually committed murder.

[upallnight]

Thank you for the link. The 10 news did not have it. That reporter looks like the one that was at the trial. The fingernail was missed by the police and crime lab during their investigation. The investigator cut out the entire piece of carpet surrounding Nona's body and sent it to the crime lab. When they were done, the defense was able to look at it and that is when they found the fingernail. If I remember correctly, (no, I have not found my notes?!?!) the fingernail was shown in a photo at the trial.
The report said McQuary will say something after reviewing the evidence-how long will that take????

ASAP I sure hope for all involved. Hopefully, whatever they have will bring closure one way or the other. I think we all are looking forward to knowing if they have enough evidence to charge anyone, and if so what is it.

[upallnight]

Wow.
I don't think so.


Anyway, I was curious if anyone else was bothered by the juror who said that KJ was innocent (with absolute conviction in her eye and tone). Even though I believe he is the perpetrator, I can allow how some folks say there wasn't enough evidence to convict (and thus, say he is not guilty). But to state so firmly that KJ is innocent leaves me with a lingering concern. Did she truly judge facts and come to a reasoned decision? Are there techniques to cull potential jurors like this, such as psychological profiling? And if so, did the prosection miss the boat with her?
It has been my experience if you want to or do not want to sit on a jury, all you have to do is answer the questions right and both the pro & def will give/or not give their vote to keep you. I have seen it happen.

[Brown hound]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;9091434]Thought it was Browhound who used the term "unusual"? :confused:


I never used the term "unusual." Please check my posts. And, yes, I was referring to the woman who was interviewed by the Courier for the article regarding "fame" (was she a cousin?), not the alleged rape victim.

[guppie]

Hey Amy! I think it's MississipPI lingo for public intoxication.

i'm already being picked on and i've been here 5 min! ya'll make me feel right at home. ha i'm actually from TN (outside memphis) but went to college in MS. but that was a cute way to put it for the public intox.

[guppie]

Ahh. Makes sense. I don't think that is used much at all here. The notations in the police blotter are underage drinking, contributing to a minor, etc. Guess the public intoxications end up in fights or something, as that is usually what else is listed---battery, assault and battery, etc.

as for PI, they don't have to give you any kind of test in TN. they can just arrest you if they want. and there doesn't have to be a fight or anything like that. i had a PI (public intoxication..hehe) in my 20's and i was just in a night club in the wrong place at the wrong time...was not under age. i think "PI" is a term used in all states by police to refer to this...not sure tho. just an abbreviation of sorts. a PI charge is not really an issue unless there is say "yelling at a girl" involved when you are a suspect in killing your gf! hmmm JMO
that is what i found to be the telling part of that arrest of kevin's, NOT the PI

[lorettalockhorn]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;9091434]Thought it was Browhound who used the term "unusual"? :confused:


I never used the term "unusual." Please check my posts. And, yes, I was referring to the woman who was interviewed by the Courier for the article regarding "fame" (was she a cousin?), not the alleged rape victim.

I was referring to your post #8888. I see now that there was a quote from someone. I apologize and will try to always wear the right glasses.

I still cannot get over the fact that it was CH who started the ball rolling on that whole incident. She seems to have been forgiven.

You mentioned a rebuttal yesterday(?), were you able to find a link? I don't remember one way back when.

[lorettalockhorn]

as for PI, they don't have to give you any kind of test in TN. they can just arrest you if they want. and there doesn't have to be a fight or anything like that. i had a PI (public intoxication..hehe) in my 20's and i was just in a night club in the wrong place at the wrong time...was not under age. i think "PI" is a term used in all states by police to refer to this...not sure tho. just an abbreviation of sorts. a PI charge is not really an issue unless there is say "yelling at a girl" involved when you are a suspect in killing your gf! hmmm JMO
that is what i found to be the telling part of that arrest of kevin's, NOT the PI


Well, except that it's against the law. Or maybe the issue is that you are too drunk to behave yourself. Wonder what the statute actually is.

A person commits the offense of public intoxication if he appears in a public place manifestly under the influence of alcohol or a controlled substance to the degree and under circumstances such that he is likely to endanger himself or other persons or property, or that he unreasonably annoys persons in his vicinity.

http://courts.state.ar.us/unpublished/2003b/20030903/ar021265.html

[guppie]

TO ANYONE:
a couple of things stood out to me on 48 hrs.
if you still have the 48 hrs show on DVR (knowing you DO), please tell me what you thought of:
1) kevin's reaction to being told there was a condom in nona's apt.

2) what KJ's mother said about him...he was "kinder & gentler to nona"

to LORETTA...what is your whole theory on that condom wrapper??? thanks.

[guppie]

Well, except that it's against the law. Or maybe the issue is that you are too drunk to behave yourself. Wonder what the statute actually is.

in my case, my actual offense was that i was out with the people who were misbehaving! ugh...wrong place, wrong time. the guys we were with were acting a fool. i was a typical 20-something. never really did bad stuff but made some poor judgment calls here and there. i requested a BAC test that night, and they refused to give me one. i am sure the statute differs state to state. it was stupid, and it was dismissed. so i don't give much thought to such ridiculous charges like PI due to that incident. i do, however, give much thought to guys yelling at girls when they are about to go on trial for murdering their gf.

[guppie]

[QUOTE=Brown hound;9091629]

I was referring to your post #8888. I see now that there was a quote from someone. I apologize and will try to always wear the right glasses.

I still cannot get over the fact that it was CH who started the ball rolling on that whole incident. She seems to have been forgiven.

You mentioned a rebuttal yesterday(?), were you able to find a link? I don't remember one way back when.

i agree with you. i don't think there was any rebuttal on the voyeurism part. just because they couldn't prove rape doesn't mean KJ or whoever didn't watch the action. that is pretty sicko!
also, i find it so self-serving that KJ did 48 hrs to clean up his own reputation. (or that was the impression i got) doesn't sound like he is doing much "cleaning up" in his daily life. didn't he also drop out of school? he got arrested while out on bail. he was at some party with underage drinking where an alleged gang-rape occurred. he shouldn't have even been drinking at all during that time...duh.
seems to me he has entitlement issues???

[lorettalockhorn]

TO ANYONE:
a couple of things stood out to me on 48 hrs.
if you still have the 48 hrs show on DVR (knowing you DO), please tell me what you thought of:
1) kevin's reaction to being told there was a condom in nona's apt.

2) what KJ's mother said about him...he was "kinder & gentler to nona"

to LORETTA...what is your whole theory on that condom wrapper??? thanks.

I thought it Kevin's reaction to Nona seeing other guys period was BS. From what I understand, he and Nona had argued and broken up over each of them seeing other people. I have no clue what JJ meant about kinder and gentler. Maybe that Nona brought out the best in him? And it just came out funny, making it seem like he's not very kind and gentle most of the time.

I think the condom wrapper was planted by Kevin, I guess I'll have to learn the identity and the alibi of the donor before I'll be convinced that it means anything else.

in my case, my actual offense was that i was out with the people who were misbehaving! ugh...wrong place, wrong time. the guys we were with were acting a fool. i was a typical 20-something. never really did bad stuff but made some poor judgment calls here and there. i requested a BAC test that night, and they refused to give me one. i am sure the statute differs state to state. it was stupid, and it was dismissed. so i don't give much thought to such ridiculous charges like PI due to that incident. i do, however, give much thought to guys yelling at girls when they are about to go on trial for murdering their gf.

The particular incident that I cited yesterday didn't happen before he went on trial. It happened less than two months ago, the night/morning of the anniversary of Nona's death. Hella way to contemplate her loss.

[guppie]

I thought it Kevin's reaction to Nona seeing other guys period was BS. From what I understand, he and Nona had argued and broken up over each of them seeing other people. I have no clue what JJ meant about kinder and gentler. Maybe that Nona brought out the best in him? And it just came out funny, making it seem like he's not very kind and gentle most of the time.

I think the condom wrapper was planted by Kevin, I guess I'll have to learn the identity and the alibi of the donor before I'll be convinced that it means anything else.

The particular incident that I cited yesterday didn't happen before he went on trial. It happened less than two months ago, the night/morning of the anniversary of Nona's death. Hella way to contemplate her loss.

oops, got my dates wrong. thanks.

i had at first thought the wrapper was a trigger. now i looked at the video more times and have read more. i am now leaning toward a "plant" on the wrapper as well (basing my opinion on his reaction in that police video). that must mean you think he also took a weapon because he had premeditated it. obviously, if he took the time to plant a condom wrapper, then it had to be a planned thing. so do you think he tried to use a knife he brought and gave up on that and used the lamp base? what's your theory there?

when do you think they are going to tell who the DNA belongs to...they did say they have a match, right?

[lorettalockhorn]

oops, got my dates wrong. thanks.

i had at first thought the wrapper was a trigger. now i looked at the video more times and have read more. i am now leaning toward a "plant" on the wrapper as well (basing my opinion on his reaction in that police video). that must mean you think he also took a weapon because he had premeditated it. obviously, if he took the time to plant a condom wrapper, then it had to be a planned thing. so do you think he tried to use a knife he brought and gave up on that and used the lamp base? what's your theory there?

when do you think they are going to tell who the DNA belongs to...they did say they have a match, right?

I do think he was stalking her; reading her texts, emails and IMs. I don't think he took the condom until that night and when the operator told him to stay on the line, he handed off the phone to RW or JJ (don't remember which) so that he could plant the wrapper. I do think that he went to her apartment that morning to spy on her, parked at a nearby complex and walked to hers. When she caught him lurking outside or when she came downstairs, his planned attempt to intimidate her turned deadly. Maybe she laughed at the thought of their upcoming nuptials. (I noticed that he didn't tell Schlesinger that he was planning on proposing that night.) The narcissist in him killed her as she turned her back on him. He feels justified that if he can't have her, no one else can.

Who knows about the knife, has it ever been identified? Was it hers and he took it with him after the murder? Cleaned it up and left it behind?

Unless the DNA donor is arrested, I don't particularly expect to hear anything soon.

[ifIwereU]

TO ANYONE:
a couple of things stood out to me on 48 hrs.
if you still have the 48 hrs show on DVR (knowing you DO), please tell me what you thought of:
1) kevin's reaction to being told there was a condom in nona's apt. 2) what KJ's mother said about him...he was "kinder & gentler to nona"

to LORETTA...what is your whole theory on that condom wrapper??? thanks.

KJ's reaction was almost a sigh of releif....Like..."oh, thank god, the police found it, the staged rape is going to work"...but sometimes you see and hear what you want...
I would have liked to have seen a different line of quesitoning from the officer in asking about the condom...the cop flat out told Jones where the condom was found....his question was "did you see the condom wrapper in the kitchen?" JOnes reply was "there was one? so she was raped." it was all pretty intriguing...I was able to watch the statements at trial....his statements were chilling when he discussed putting his hand on the back of her head and feeling the bone...
it was also interesting in his statement when he discusses his timeline and also when he's writiong it out that he never talks about trying to call Nona....it seems that if you were busy doing stuff all day you would remember at what point you stopped doing those things because of concern....he never mentions it in his timeline...I thought that was peculiar....he did send a text message "U alive" that afternoon...coinsidence?

[upallnight]

TO ANYONE:
a couple of things stood out to me on 48 hrs.
if you still have the 48 hrs show on DVR (knowing you DO), please tell me what you thought of:
1) kevin's reaction to being told there was a condom in nona's apt.

2) what KJ's mother said about him...he was "kinder & gentler to nona"

to LORETTA...what is your whole theory on that condom wrapper??? thanks.

Um, well I think the little acting he did made him look even more guilty. Like when he said "so she was raped"? Just did not show a normal reaction in my view. Guess that depends on what everyone version of normal is though. Almost seemed like he thought they fell for it. Seems like he should have known they would have her examined for that.

I took it as he was not his normal self when around Nona, different temperment I guess. Took it as he was not so kind and gentle in his comfort (zone) of home and family etc. His mom IS very protective of him.
Just a thought:
Some parents think their children can do no wrong, even when their child does wrong they always find a way to right the wrong in their eyes. In some cases may spend all their energy, time, money and much more to try to clear that childs name. Many times this causes families to split up. Not saying one or both of his parents thinks he is guilty because I sure don't know. But just saying sometimes one thinks enough is enough but the other don't. That can cause major problems in a family. When this happens for the most part the child clings toward the parent or person who is the bigger protector. A parent has to be a parent not a friend.

[lorettalockhorn]

Dirksmeyer file leak a mystery

Like the murder itself, questions surrounding leak of confidential information from Dirksmeyer investigative file remain unanswered

By Mary Kincy Benefield
crime@couriernews.com

First, it was the cell phone.
Now, a handful of months and an acquittal later, more evidence in the Nona Dirksmeyer murder investigation has found its way out of a case file classified by authorities as confidential due to the "ongoing" nature of the investigation into the murder. It's a classification bulwarked by 5th Judicial District Circuit Judge Dennis C. Sutterfield's confimation last week he recently appointed a special prosecutor to investigate the case.
But unlike last time, when 5th Judicial District Prosecuting Attorney David Gibbons admitted Russellville Police Department (RPD) Det. Mark Frost released the cell phone to Duane Dipert, Dirksmeyer's stepfather, no one is talking about how the latest evidence to be released - including video recordings of police interrogations, crime scene photos, a 911 recording and what appeared to be autopsy photos - ended up on national television Saturday night.
Gibbons, who since the trial has declined multiple Arkansas Freedom of Information Act requests to release the file to The Courier, previously said although he personally did not release any information, he was aware a portion of the information was released during an interview due to a "misunderstanding."
On Tuesday, Jeff Phillips, a deputy prosecutor for the 5th Judicial District, confirmed he released a portion of a video recording showing police interviewing Jones on the night of Dirksmeyer's Dec. 15, 2005 murder to CBS.
"Like David [Gibbons] said, it was a miscommuniation, because my position was it was entered into evidence and not anything that anyone else didn't hear or see." Phillips said of the tape, which was shown to jurors - and to anyone else in attendance at Jones' trial - in July.
As for the other leaked information, both Phillips and Gibbons denied releasing it to CBS, the company that produces 48 Hours Mystery, while a public relations spokesperson for the program, not only refused comment, but refused to be named in this story.
Local officials, including Pope County Coroner Leonard Krout, who had access to autopsy photos, and Joshua McMillian, RPD public information officer speaking for the department, also denied having released any information contained within the Dirksmeyer case file to 48 Hours.
"As far as we know, no one has released anything at all to CBS," Mc Millian said, adding the RPD and its offficers are without the authority to release information classified in the case file without prior authorization from Gibbons.
And former police chief Jamed [sic] Bacon, now police chief in Nixa, Mo, said he does not possess any of the information to release in the first place, and when asked if he knew how the information had been leaked he said he was "wondering that same thing."
Kenneth Johnson of Monticello, one of Jones' attorneys, said the leak did not originate with him, either, and said he was "concerned" about the release.
"Somehow, they got their hands on some stuff that I didn't even have," Johnson said.
"This information that was there with the face that was blurred would have been very interesting to the defense," he explained, presumably referring to a police interrogation video in which an unidentified dark-haired man was shown discussing his relationship with Dirksmeyer with an officer.
Johnson also indicated he had recently spoken with Bill Bristow of Jonesboro, another of Jones' attorneys, and said Bristow - who was out of town and could not be reached for comment for this story - said at the time of their conversation he had not released any information not in the public record.
Jones' other attorney, Michael Robbins of Dover, was the only person The Courier contacted who declined to answer questions regarding the leak.
Instead, he said he did not "have any comment" to provide, when asked whether he released any of the information seen on television that would be considered part of the investigative file in the case, and, when a reporter expressed concern that his lack of willingness to address the issue given others' responses might erroneously implicate him, said he found it "amusing" The Courier would "be concerned" with that possiblity.
In an e-mailed statement, Carol and Duane Dipert, Dirksmeyer's mother and stepfather, said they, like The Courier, had been unable to determine who was responsible for the evidence's release - which they indicated they believe may have included more than one media outlet.
"We don't know the source of the crime scene photos," the Dipert's[sic] statement said. "[We] asked the producers of both 48 Hours and Dateline where they obtained them. Both said they couldn't tell [us]."
A spokesperson for Dateline, a program produced by NBC which has also indicated it plans to feature the Dirksmeyer case in an upcoming episode, would not confirm whether the program's producers possessed information classified as a part of the case file.

All typos are mine.

[FDInLaw]

This is unconfirmed, but the buzz I'm hearing is that Kevin's Defense team handed this information over. This article seems to support this. If this is true, it's further evidence that the defense is focused on Kevin's image and not on helping with the ongoing investigation to find the "real" murderer. Further more, it would show that 48 Hours had a conflict of interest. As such, it is no "mystery" why the show did not present much of the evidence in the case and choose to focus on Janice and Kevin Jones. For those new to the case, it's imperative that the show be taken with a grain of salt since a possible agenda is surfacing. JMHO

[FDInLaw]

This is pure speculation, but is Kevin's defense team showing signs of a waning united front??? Note Robbins will not give a comment, and he is the one responsible for the news release. Could it be that one hand is clean but the other is not? :shrug:

[lorettalockhorn]

Maybe the defense and/or Robbins is playing semantics. Maybe the information was given to someone who in turn gave it to CBS.

[christina]

Jeff Phillips' comments made the most sense. Once something is shown in court I thought it was now "public domain". After a trial all of it stays in the hands of the court reporter as part of the official record- at least I think that is how it works. All but one piece on the 48 Hours were what I saw at the trial.
Another thought- we already know the "chain of custody" was not tight at the RPD so who knows how many copies of stuff are out there.
Most importantly to me, the article comes across weak. This is hardly the focus at this point in the tragedy of Nona's death. The news release was not given to them (my guess is it was intentional due to the reporting they did on the case in the past-burnt their bridges with the police, prosecution, and defense). Being scooped on a story in your home town is embarrassing at best.

[lorettalockhorn]

Jeff Phillips' comments made the most sense. Once something is shown in court I thought it was now "public domain". After a trial all of it stays in the hands of the court reporter as part of the official record- at least I think that is how it works. All but one piece on the 48 Hours were what I saw at the trial.
Another thought- we already know the "chain of custody" was not tight at the RPD so who knows how many copies of stuff are out there.
Most importantly to me, the article comes across weak. This is hardly the focus at this point in the tragedy of Nona's death. The news release was not given to them (my guess is it was intentional due to the reporting they did on the case in the past-burnt their bridges with the police, prosecution, and defense). Being scooped on a story in your home town is embarrassing at best.

Sorry, but I can't help but laugh a little at that particular comment. Okay, I laughed a lot. The record was sealed to begin with; just how was The Courier supposed to get the information that wasn't new if the defense didn't have them on their list of friendlies? It is laughable that the Jones' effort to find justice for Nona is anything but self-serving.

[FDInLaw]

Kenneth Johnson of Monticello, one of Jones' attorneys, said the leak did not originate with him, either, and said he was "concerned" about the release.
"Somehow, they got their hands on some stuff that I didn't even have," Johnson said.
"This information that was there with the face that was blurred would have been very interesting to the defense," he explained, presumably referring to a police interrogation video in which an unidentified dark-haired man was shown discussing his relationship with Dirksmeyer with an officer.


This comment is out right scandalous. . . the defense knows who this is and that he was totally cleared by the police. Even with a new "viable" suspect being investigated, the defense is taking shots at whoever they can. If I were this young man I would be getting a lawyer. Enough is enough. :flamemad:

[guppie]

I do think he was stalking her; reading her texts, emails and IMs. I don't think he took the condom until that night and when the operator told him to stay on the line, he handed off the phone to RW or JJ (don't remember which) so that he could plant the wrapper. I do think that he went to her apartment that morning to spy on her, parked at a nearby complex and walked to hers. When she caught him lurking outside or when she came downstairs, his planned attempt to intimidate her turned deadly. Maybe she laughed at the thought of their upcoming nuptials. (I noticed that he didn't tell Schlesinger that he was planning on proposing that night.) The narcissist in him killed her as she turned her back on him. He feels justified that if he can't have her, no one else can.

Who knows about the knife, has it ever been identified? Was it hers and he took it with him after the murder? Cleaned it up and left it behind?

Unless the DNA donor is arrested, I don't particularly expect to hear anything soon.

well, that sounds like the most sense of anything i have heard to this point.
thank you, i have seen the light!

that means it was not premeditated (hence using the lamp or weapon from her own apt) but the wrapper was planted later to throw them off of KJ. why the heck have the police not thought of this scenario? it is very logical.
i got my husband to watch the 48 hrs show last night. i said nothing and allowed him to watch and give his opinion. he said he thought wrapper was planted too, not a trigger. my husband also asked why no one saw KJ's car and said that KJ must have parked somewhere else and walked, which you explain well in your scenario. well done! i mean, who else would park at another location and "spy?" IMO none of those other "flavor of the week" guys would have cared that much. and i am not judging nona. sleeping around in college is not that uncommon. let's be honest.

[guppie]

Um, well I think the little acting he did made him look even more guilty. Like when he said "so she was raped"? Just did not show a normal reaction in my view. Guess that depends on what everyone version of normal is though. Almost seemed like he thought they fell for it. Seems like he should have known they would have her examined for that.

I took it as he was not his normal self when around Nona, different temperment I guess. Took it as he was not so kind and gentle in his comfort (zone) of home and family etc. His mom IS very protective of him.
Just a thought:
Some parents think their children can do no wrong, even when their child does wrong they always find a way to right the wrong in their eyes. In some cases may spend all their energy, time, money and much more to try to clear that childs name. Many times this causes families to split up. Not saying one or both of his parents thinks he is guilty because I sure don't know. But just saying sometimes one thinks enough is enough but the other don't. That can cause major problems in a family. When this happens for the most part the child clings toward the parent or person who is the bigger protector. A parent has to be a parent not a friend.

i'm in agreement about your reactions. thanks for answering my ques. those were my same thoughts. and i agree with what you say in your last paragraph about some parents. i have read your comments about that in earlier posts and fully agreed when i saw you write that. as a high school teacher for 13 yrs, i witnessed parents saying their kids could do no wrong even when they tried to burn the school down and had the paraphrenalia to do it on their person at the time of arrest!
do you think KJ's mother truly believes in her soul that he didn't do it or is she covering, in your opinion?

[lorettalockhorn]

well, that sounds like the most sense of anything i have heard to this point.
thank you, i have seen the light!

that means it was not premeditated (hence using the lamp or weapon from her own apt) but the wrapper was planted later to throw them off of KJ. why the heck have the police not thought of this scenario? it is very logical.
i got my husband to watch the 48 hrs show last night. i said nothing and allowed him to watch and give his opinion. he said he thought wrapper was planted too, not a trigger. my husband also asked why no one saw KJ's car and said that KJ must have parked somewhere else and walked, which you explain well in your scenario. well done! i mean, who else would park at another location and "spy?" IMO none of those other "flavor of the week" guys would have cared that much. and i am not judging nona. sleeping around in college is not that uncommon. let's be honest.

I drove two different round trip routes between Nona's and the Jones' homes and by parking at one of the nearby complexes, I was able to allow time for a brisk walk to Nona's. It's possible that Kevin was dressed for jogging and that was his ruse, wearing a hood wouldn't have been unusual for a December run, if he was seen, no one may have given him a second glance.

I'm sure the State has reasons that don't occur to me for having a different scenario.

[guppie]

This is unconfirmed, but the buzz I'm hearing is that Kevin's Defense team handed this information over. This article seems to support this. If this is true, it's further evidence that the defense is focused on Kevin's image and not on helping with the ongoing investigation to find the "real" murderer. Further more, it would show that 48 Hours had a conflict of interest. As such, it is no "mystery" why the show did not present much of the evidence in the case and choose to focus on Janice and Kevin Jones. For those new to the case, it's imperative that the show be taken with a grain of salt since a possible agenda is surfacing. JMHO


as a newbie who had never seen anything on this case before, i can tell you that both my husband and i watched at separate times, and we both thought (as a gut reaction) that he IS guilty. we based that on kevin's behavior and his mother's comments. if 48 hrs hours was trying to help him look innocent, it BACKFIRED!!! IMO that show made him look guilty. it was really stupid on his part and the part of his attorneys to do the show. KJ appeared selfish and entitled, and his mother appeared the overprotector who delusionally thinks he can do no wrong.. the more i read and read, the more i am convinced my first impression was right. and i think loretta nailed it as far as what happened that day.
no matter what turns up, he cannot be tried again for this. so what now?

[guppie]

Jeff Phillips' comments made the most sense. Once something is shown in court I thought it was now "public domain". After a trial all of it stays in the hands of the court reporter as part of the official record- at least I think that is how it works. All but one piece on the 48 Hours were what I saw at the trial.Another thought- we already know the "chain of custody" was not tight at the RPD so who knows how many copies of stuff are out there.
Most importantly to me, the article comes across weak. This is hardly the focus at this point in the tragedy of Nona's death. The news release was not given to them (my guess is it was intentional due to the reporting they did on the case in the past-burnt their bridges with the police, prosecution, and defense). Being scooped on a story in your home town is embarrassing at best.

curious, what was the one piece added? are you saying that the defense gave it to 48 hrs? help me understand. thanks.

[guppie]

I drove two different round trip routes between Nona's and the Jones' homes and by parking at one of the nearby complexes, I was able to allow time for a brisk walk to Nona's. It's possible that Kevin was dressed for jogging and that was his ruse, wearing a hood wouldn't have been unusual for a December run, if he was seen, no one may have given him a second glance.

I'm sure the State has reasons that don't occur to me for having a different scenario.

loretta, you kick butt. if anything ever happens to me, i want YOU on it! ha
did you ever tell investigators your very logical scenario? just wondering.

also, is it correct that KJ stopped by gas station and went to lunch around noon? would he have had time to go shower and dispose of that stuff in one hour or did he even go home before going to lunch? i am sure you drove that route too! :)
give me your scenario on the hours after her death.

in your opinion, what percentage of people in & around russellville think he is guilty...word on the street so to speak? me just being curious again.

[lorettalockhorn]

loretta, you kick butt. if anything ever happens to me, i want YOU on it! ha
did you ever tell investigators your very logical scenario? just wondering.

also, is it correct that KJ stopped by gas station and went to lunch around noon? would he have had time to go shower and dispose of that stuff in one hour or did he even go home before going to lunch? i am sure you drove that route too! :)
give me your scenario on the hours after her death.

in your opinion, what percentage of people in & around russellville think he is guilty...word on the street so to speak? me just being curious again.


LMAO Thank you for warming the cockles of my cold, harsh heart. I'm sure that this forum is well read by everyone involved in the investigation.

Somewhere I have my mileage log complete with drive times, but haven't looked at it in ages. I am convinced that there was plenty of time for Kevin to commit the crime in the morning and complete his afternoon social schedule/lunch date and Grandma's social dogooding. Nobody started this thread re: the timeline. Check it out:

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=283533

[FDInLaw]

loretta, you kick butt. if anything ever happens to me, i want YOU on it! ha
did you ever tell investigators your very logical scenario? just wondering.

also, is it correct that KJ stopped by gas station and went to lunch around noon? would he have had time to go shower and dispose of that stuff in one hour or did he even go home before going to lunch? i am sure you drove that route too! :)
give me your scenario on the hours after her death.

in your opinion, what percentage of people in & around russellville think he is guilty...word on the street so to speak? me just being curious again.
Me too. . . I want Loretta on my case if anything happens to me! :beer:

[upallnight]

This comment is out right scandalous. . . the defense knows who this is and that he was totally cleared by the police. Even with a new "viable" suspect being investigated, the defense is taking shots at whoever they can. If I were this young man I would be getting a lawyer. Enough is enough. :flamemad:

OMG, this defense team needs to put up or shut up! They do not have Nona's interest in mind IMO. This is not a game, I am about tired of their S---! Seems they will not stop at anything to try to direct attention from Kevin. A waste of time it seems. And as time goes by, their actions only point more in the direction of KJ as the killer IMO! Sad I tell you, what next, do they have no shame? Ughhhhh, I agree enough is enough!

[JustCallMeNora]

Thats true just knowing someone doesnt mean a hill of beans. But when your gut instincts say something what do you feel. People sound so convinced he did do it just from what that crooked David Gibbons says, thats the same thing. The reason Im in an uproar is he was done wrong. The guy couldnt even go to eat without being made to feel like he was horrible. He was truely upset over Nona and he still is. He was in love with her and ready to marry her. I feel like you people are telling me to change my opinion and I dont change just for pleasing people. I believe in my friend. I always will unless I get good enough proof not too. Why dont they go after former mayor Turner's son. He stalked her and threatened her.


Just wondering if this was the Krystal that Jones was SUPPOSEDLY yelling at. This person seems to wholeheartedly believe in Jones...
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[Amy]

loretta, you kick butt. if anything ever happens to me, i want YOU on it! ha
did you ever tell investigators your very logical scenario? just wondering.

also, is it correct that KJ stopped by gas station and went to lunch around noon? would he have had time to go shower and dispose of that stuff in one hour or did he even go home before going to lunch? i am sure you drove that route too! :)
give me your scenario on the hours after her death.

in your opinion, what percentage of people in & around russellville think he is guilty...word on the street so to speak? me just being curious again.

Not Loretta here, but if memory serves me correctly, the other fellow working at the station told investigators that KJ didn't go to the station until around 2.

[JustCallMeNora]

"When I arrived on scene, I observed a white male yelling at a white female as she was walking northbound on Commerce to me and the male was walking behind her. The female appeared to be walking away from the male that was yelling very loudly to try to avoid him........."

"As Officer Collins spoke to the male I observed him to have bloodshot and glassy eyes in appearance. I also observed the male to become argumentative and refuse to answer Officer Collins questions. Officer Collins placed him under arrest and identified him through an Arkansas driver's license to be Kevin Jones....

........I asked Crytal why she ran from me and she stated that he told her to do it........."

Sounds to me like he was yelling at Krystal to run away from the police to protect her from being harrassed.


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[upallnight]

i'm in agreement about your reactions. thanks for answering my ques. those were my same thoughts. and i agree with what you say in your last paragraph about some parents. i have read your comments about that in earlier posts and fully agreed when i saw you write that. as a high school teacher for 13 yrs, i witnessed parents saying their kids could do no wrong even when they tried to burn the school down and had the paraphrenalia to do it on their person at the time of arrest!
do you think KJ's mother truly believes in her soul that he didn't do it or is she covering, in your opinion?
IMO, if she knew he did it she would go to all lengths to protect him. I can not say more, that is just IMO. Maybe she believes he did not kill her, I don't know. Either way, she seems to be his highest protector here on earth. I am just wondering still where was Hiram and Granny on the interviews?

[FDInLaw]

Originally Posted by ladykrystal
Thats true just knowing someone doesnt mean a hill of beans. But when your gut instincts say something what do you feel. People sound so convinced he did do it just from what that crooked David Gibbons says, thats the same thing. The reason Im in an uproar is he was done wrong. The guy couldnt even go to eat without being made to feel like he was horrible. He was truely upset over Nona and he still is. He was in love with her and ready to marry her. I feel like you people are telling me to change my opinion and I dont change just for pleasing people. I believe in my friend. I always will unless I get good enough proof not too. Why dont they go after former mayor Turner's son. He stalked her and threatened her.Just wondering if this was the Krystal that Jones was SUPPOSEDLY yelling at. This person seems to wholeheartedly believe in Jones...
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Good question Nora! Maybe the poster will come back and let us know.

We really need more young folks posting. . . is it normal behavior these days to be sleeping around with other people when you are quote "ready to marry"??? :shrug:

[CSOKC]

Just wondering if this was the Krystal that Jones was SUPPOSEDLY yelling at. This person seems to wholeheartedly believe in Jones...
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If you still think that he was only "supposedly" yelling at her, then why don't you go request a copy of the police report?

[CSOKC]

Sounds to me like he was yelling at Krystal to run away from the police to protect her from being harrassed.


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And it looks to me like you didn't even read the clip that you posted.

"When I arrived on scene, I observed a white male yelling at a white female as she was walking northbound on Commerce to me and the male was walking behind her. The female appeared to be walking away from the male that was yelling very loudly to try to avoid him........."

[JustCallMeNora]

And it looks to me like you didn't even read the clip that you posted.

"When I arrived on scene, I observed a white male yelling at a white female as she was walking northbound on Commerce to me and the male was walking behind her. The female appeared to be walking away from the male that was yelling very loudly to try to avoid him........."

Read it quite well thank you. Maybe you are just OVER reading it...

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[guppie]

Not Loretta here, but if memory serves me correctly, the other fellow working at the station told investigators that KJ didn't go to the station until around 2.

hi amy,
yes, i saw that, but wasn't there also something about a receipt from the place where he ate at about 12:15? and grandma (not that i believe Christian women don't lie!) says he stopped to get money from her before that. i will have to check out the timeline thread. what do you know about him eating out that day?

[lorettalockhorn]

Read it quite well thank you. Maybe you are just OVER reading it...

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Perhaps you are under reading it:

"........I asked Crytal why she ran from me and she stated that he told her to do it........."

You think this girl lied to LE? Why would she do that?

[guppie]

i saw some of you complaining about the postings on 48 hrs site, so i took a look. OMG just wanna say that those people must not have watched what i watched. yeah, the stepdad was a weirdo and nona's mom is oblivious and too smiley, but that doesn't mean KJ didn't do it. so you all know, there are many people like me who watched that show and saw exactly what you see.

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by ladykrystal
Thats true just knowing someone doesnt mean a hill of beans. But when your gut instincts say something what do you feel. People sound so convinced he did do it just from what that crooked David Gibbons says, thats the same thing. The reason Im in an uproar is he was done wrong. The guy couldnt even go to eat without being made to feel like he was horrible. He was truely upset over Nona and he still is. He was in love with her and ready to marry her. I feel like you people are telling me to change my opinion and I dont change just for pleasing people. I believe in my friend. I always will unless I get good enough proof not too. Why dont they go after former mayor Turner's son. He stalked her and threatened her.

Just wondering if KJ is a kinder, gentler person around his female friends until he gets pissed, maybe he yells when he wants. Maybe alcohol, etc., intensify's his emotions, actions. I don't know, actions speak louder than words and so does evidence IMO. I have been at the same place before where he was eating, no one made him feel horrible that I wittnessed. I did see a couple of people go by and pat him on the shoulder, once I was eating at the same place was pre trial. He seemed fine to me, I think all that was there had an open mind. Another time was he and his family eating as the same place as I. No one bothered him there either. Are you saying he was harrassed verbaly by someone or is it just his feelings he is being harrassed? Yes, there are people that are local that think he killed Nona, due to the evidence. People talk about it. I have not wittnessed anyone attacking him him public. Seems like his protectors would have reported this to the police. The only police reports I have heard of is self inflicted by KJ meaning Public Intox., not sure what you mean about him being truely upset over Nona, he has been going on about his life IMO as if she never was a factor to him. Nona does not have that opportunity, she is dead. And I to am open to further evidence that can prove beyond r/d otherwise. As far as the Major's son, if they have evidence that leads to his arrest, then let it be known, otherwise, why try to put blame in that direction without evidence? You are doing just what you say other's are doing to KJ, and he was charged with murder. He may have been found not guilty but that does not mean innocent. Is that cold of me, maybe in your opinion it is. I just follow the evidence. Simple and easy to this point, the only evidence that has been shown leads to KJ, maybe not beyond r/d to a jury, but it is still clear evidence.

[sweetgranny]

i saw some of you complaining about the postings on 48 hrs site, so i took a look. OMG just wanna say that those people must not have watched what i watched. yeah, the stepdad was a weirdo and nona's mom is oblivious and too smiley, but that doesn't mean KJ didn't do it. so you all know, there are many people like me who watched that show and saw exactly what you see.

How do you get to this site?:confused:

[FDInLaw]

How do you get to this site?:confused:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/07/48hours/main3802230.shtml

[upallnight]

So, Gibbons should have gone after someone that was out of town when the murder occurred??? :rolleyes:
For those of you desperate to find someone other than Kevin, please try to back your assertions with facts.

Good point!

[guppie]

How do you get to this site?:confused:

try this: start reading from last page though
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/07/48hours/main3802230.shtml#ccmm

[guppie]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/07/48hours/main3802230.shtml

oh, duh. now i see you beat me with the link. i better get on it faster to keep up with ya'll! gees

[sweetgranny]

Thanks everyone for posting the site. I have now read the story but have not yet read al the posts. I still feel very strongly that he did it. I'm with you FD Why is everyone so dead set on Bubba. I thought I had heard he had an alibi of being out of town that day. People need check everything before they start posting and libeling people...and no I am not related to him don't even know him:)

[hawgustusgloop]

Maybe the defense and/or Robbins is playing semantics. Maybe the information was given to someone who in turn gave it to CBS.

I would just like to point out that Kreepy Kevin's brother works/worked? for KFSM, which is the local CBS affiliate in Fort Smith. Not that it means anything necessarily, I just thought it was worth mentioning.

[lorettalockhorn]

I would just like to point out that Kreepy Kevin's brother works/worked? for KFSM, which is the local CBS affiliate in Fort Smith. Not that it means anything necessarily, I just thought it was worth mentioning.


Oh surely it doesn't escape anyone that KFSM was on the defense list of friendlies. *wink wink* *nudge nudge*

[sweetgranny]

I would just like to point out that Kreepy Kevin's brother works/worked? for KFSM, which is the local CBS affiliate in Fort Smith. Not that it means anything necessarily, I just thought it was worth mentioning.

He currently works there. Not past tense:no:

[hawgustusgloop]

I still think it was DEFINITELY planted. It is not impossible for it to end up on the counter out of normal use, but it is extremely unlikely. I don't think there is ANY way Kevin would not have seen it at the scene either. That IMO nosy creep couldn't even resist checking out the greeting card (from her mom) as she lay dead nearby. I think there is a very, very slight possibility that the wrapper was also a trigger, like maybe he found it digging in her trash can or something, but I think he deliberately put it out in that desperately conspicuous location.

I tend to agree with lorettalockhorn, that the wrapper was probably planted at the "discovery," especially if the source of the DNA turns out to be someone that Nona was definitely not involved with romantically.

[FDInLaw]

He currently works there. Not past tense:no:
Granny, get your glasses! :D

Hawg posted "works/worked." (As in she was not sure, not one or the other).

[sweetgranny]

Granny, get your glasses! :D

Hawg posted "works/worked." (As in she was not sure, not one or the other).

I know I was just clarifying for Hawg that I am sure :)

[upallnight]

I still think it was DEFINITELY planted. It is not impossible for it to end up on the counter out of normal use, but it is extremely unlikely. I don't think there is ANY way Kevin would not have seen it at the scene either. That IMO nosy creep couldn't even resist checking out the greeting card (from her mom) as she lay dead nearby. I think there is a very, very slight possibility that the wrapper was also a trigger, like maybe he found it digging in her trash can or something, but I think he deliberately put it out in that desperately conspicuous location.

I tend to agree with lorettalockhorn, that the wrapper was probably planted at the "discovery," especially if the source of the DNA turns out to be someone that Nona was definitely not involved with romantically.

I am pretty sure it was reported KJ said he did touch the greeting card, maybe he did so to put his print on it as to possibly cover prints he already had on it, who knows. I would not just pick up a greeting card of someone else's and read it. It was her apt., not his, but maybe he thought what was hers was his type of thing. Weird all the way around he is IMO. Just wonder how much he did stalk her if he did so. I do think there was a blood print on it. I do think there was 2 cards on that table though. I did not take notes from the trial at all so this is what my memory serves me. Just do not see how that condum wrapper would have ended up on that counter for any other reason other than either planted by the killer for discovery of Nona's body, or it was the trigger of the attack. But still, then even as the trigger, did the killer leave it there thinking DNA would be on it or fingerprints to point in the direction of someone other than him/her? He picked up the greeting card, I think he would have picked up that condum wrapper also if he was just trying to figure out what in the hell happened. But if he did pick it up/plant it, he must have been careful to preserve any evidence on it to point away from him.
Just like the "so she was raped" comment he made. It is my opinion telling a man that loved a woman she was raped (because he seemed to think this to the investigator becasue a condum wrapper was found) would have been even more personal to him furthering an emotional breakdown on KJ's part. I did not see that, what I saw from the interview was more of a staged response, and on the other hand, yea! it worked. Wonder what he thought when he was told she was not raped? Oh, I see he may have thought she was just hit in the back of the head and the perp. got scared and ran. Yea, right. You invade on a man's territory such as his wife/children, especially wife in a way of suggested rape, you better watch out-that alone can trigger a response from a man that will not tip like a woman scorned. Seemed like he hit that chair as if, damn I can not believe I am caught. And the pro. said that is how Nona was hit in the beginning of the attack. I would have thought thinking she was raped would have shown more of that type of response from him, angry and mad because someone raped her also. But it did not. So, I think he knew about the condum wrapper, IMO, what he did not know is the whole world would not look away from the evidence and protect him from what seems at this point to only lead to him as her killer.

[hawgustusgloop]

I am pretty sure it was reported KJ said he did touch the greeting card, maybe he did so to put his print on it as to possibly cover prints he already had on it, who knows. I would not just pick up a greeting card of someone else's and read it. It was her apt., not his, but maybe he thought what was hers was his type of thing. Weird all the way around he is IMO. Just wonder how much he did stalk her if he did so. I do think there was a blood print on it. I do think there was 2 cards on that table though. I did not take notes from the trial at all so this is what my memory serves me. Just do not see how that condum wrapper would have ended up on that counter for any other reason other than either planted by the killer for discovery of Nona's body, or it was the trigger of the attack. But still, then even as the trigger, did the killer leave it there thinking DNA would be on it or fingerprints to point in the direction of someone other than him/her? He picked up the greeting card, I think he would have picked up that condum wrapper also if he was just trying to figure out what in the hell happened. But if he did pick it up/plant it, he must have been careful to preserve any evidence on it to point away from him.
Just like the "so she was raped" comment he made. It is my opinion telling a man that loved a woman she was raped (because he seemed to think this to the investigator becasue a condum wrapper was found) would have been even more personal to him furthering an emotional breakdown on KJ's part. I did not see that, what I saw from the interview was more of a staged response, and on the other hand, yea! it worked. Wonder what he thought when he was told she was not raped? Oh, I see he may have thought she was just hit in the back of the head and the perp. got scared and ran. Yea, right. You invade on a man's territory such as his wife/children, especially wife in a way of suggested rape, you better watch out-that alone can trigger a response from a man that will not tip like a woman scorned. Seemed like he hit that chair as if, damn I can not believe I am caught. And the pro. said that is how Nona was hit in the beginning of the attack. I would have thought thinking she was raped would have shown more of that type of response from him, angry and mad because someone raped her also. But it did not. So, I think he knew about the condum wrapper, IMO, what he did not know is the whole world would not look away from the evidence and protect him from what seems at this point to only lead to him as her killer.

I'm with you, upallnight. Also, I find it kind of strange that only AFTER the interrogating officer mentioned the CONDOM WRAPPER did Kevin conclude that Nona was raped. You would think that the thought would have already been pretty prominent in his mind since she was found lying naked in her living room, right?

[FDInLaw]

I know I was just clarifying for Hawg that I am sure :)

Sorry. . . I literally hate the ":no: " icon lol! :o

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm with you, upallnight. Also, I find it kind of strange that only AFTER the interrogating officer mentioned the CONDOM WRAPPER did Kevin conclude that Nona was raped. You would think that the thought would have already been pretty prominent in his mind since she was found lying naked in her living room, right?


DING DING DING We have a winner!

She's nude, her clothes strewn around her, which would suggest that they had been removed by someone else (at least to me) and it was the wrapper that drew him to the rape conclusion? No wonder JJ described him as being of average intelligence.

[upallnight]

Something I still can not get off my mind. KJ and his mom talked for a couple of hours the night before Nona was killed I think it was. The root of that conversation seemed to be school, grades etc., from KJ's mom's statement. Just don't seem to be all that there was to it. Wonder if there was more on his mind that night than school/grades. Wonder if his mom knew him and Nona had problems, and if so what all did she know then. What all went down that night with KJ and his mom? I wonder if she saw the kinder, gentler KJ then or ..........
Just a thought, seemed to be so close to the actual day the attack happened. Was that all there was to their talk I wonder. I still do not understand why JJ said "terrible accident", would seem to be the scence of an attack and murder not accident. She did say when asked what kind of accident, she did not know but "accident", clearly it was not an accident IMO. Not saying she knew anything, just trying to sort it all out with what we know.

[upallnight]

DING DING DING We have a winner!

She's nude, her clothes strewn around her, which would suggest that they had been removed by someone else (at least to me) and it was the wrapper that drew him to the rape conclusion? No wonder JJ described him as being of average intelligence.

L, your so good! Got to love you!

[lorettalockhorn]

L, your so good! Got to love you!

I was just thinking that when the DNA donor is named, we'll have to start our armchair detecting all over again. It could be a real test.

[guppie]

DING DING DING We have a winner!

She's nude, her clothes strewn around her, which would suggest that they had been removed by someone else (at least to me) and it was the wrapper that drew him to the rape conclusion? No wonder JJ described him as being of average intelligence.


oh oh oh, forgot to mention...look at the video of the police interrogation where the police first accuse kevin. what does he say?

HE SAYS OVER AND OVER: "CHECK EVERYTHING! CHECK EVERYTHING!"
umm, that says to me: did you see the condom wrapper? did you see the condom wrapper? check the condom wrapper.

hmm, the one he placed there ya mean? how bout it ya'll?

now in the earlier police video (before they accused him of anything) remember, i mentioned how he leaned back in his chair when told of the condom wrapper by police. he said "oh, so she was raped?" if a girl is dead without any clothes on, i believe that anyone's first impression the min you saw her would be she was raped. yet, he seems to only "clue in" to that after he was at the police station when they mention condom to him?
yeah right.

[guppie]

Something I still can not get off my mind. KJ and his mom talked for a couple of hours the night before Nona was killed I think it was. The root of that conversation seemed to be school, grades etc., from KJ's mom's statement. Just don't seem to be all that there was to it. Wonder if there was more on his mind that night than school/grades. Wonder if his mom knew him and Nona had problems, and if so what all did she know then. What all went down that night with KJ and his mom? I wonder if she saw the kinder, gentler KJ then or ..........
Just a thought, seemed to be so close to the actual day the attack happened. Was that all there was to their talk I wonder. I still do not understand why JJ said "terrible accident", would seem to be the scence of an attack and murder not accident. She did say when asked what kind of accident, she did not know but "accident", clearly it was not an accident IMO. Not saying she knew anything, just trying to sort it all out with what we know.

my impression was that JJ did know KJ and nona were having arguments. and when she saw nona's body, that little inner voice said to her, OMG i think my son may have done this. clearly what she saw she KNEW was no accident, but this could have been a mother's intuition minimizing it in her own mind. in other words, telling herself her son did not commit a murder by instead saying it was an "accident." unfortunately for her, she said it outloud to 911, and it's taped and suspicious. IMO she was truly surprised by the scene. her voice does not sound like she was aware before she got there.
although i don't think she knew ahead of time, i DO think she is the type of mother who would lie and cover up a crime scene for her son IF he had told her about it. she gave me that impression herself, not what anyone else said. i am clearly going on only what i saw & heard from KJ and JJ and not anyone's opinions about things.

[guppie]

I was just thinking that when the DNA donor is named, we'll have to start our armchair detecting all over again. It could be a real test.


i gotta ask the million dollar question. where do you think KJ got the condom wrapper assuming your theory is true (and i believe it is)?
from one of his buddies? nona's garbage can the day before? a dumpster somewhere?

[FDInLaw]

i gotta ask the million dollar question. where do you think KJ got the condom wrapper assuming your theory is true (and i believe it is)?
from one of his buddies? nona's garbage can the day before? a dumpster somewhere?
I'm going to guess the dumpster if it was planted.

[lorettalockhorn]

i gotta ask the million dollar question. where do you think KJ got the condom wrapper assuming your theory is true (and i believe it is)?
from one of his buddies? nona's garbage can the day before? a dumpster somewhere?


Could have come from any of the above and could have been supplied by anyone. Maybe RW brought it. What a pal!

[FDInLaw]

Could have come from any of the above and could have been supplied by anyone. Maybe RW brought it. What a pal!

Wow. that's a snazzy new avatar! :biggrin:

[lorettalockhorn]

Wow. that's a snazzy new avatar! :biggrin:

Skoal :beer:

[beachbum]

One quick question? Does a "true" rapist use a condom? Rape is considered a violent crime and how many rapists take the time to use a condom and think about dna being found at the time? I think it was planted by KJ or he found it in the trash in her apt spiking his anger which led to her killing. I think he found out he wasn't the only one anymore and he didn't like it no matter what he says he found out. He probably spied on her and maybe she had another visitor that morning aside from KJ and that really sparked his anger.
He seems to have alot of anger.

[lorettalockhorn]

One quick question? Does a "true" rapist use a condom?

Well, sure, to avoid detection he would. Especially if his DNA profile is already in the system. That's what makes the viable suspect so intriguing. Somehow, this guy is known and/or feasible. Supposedly.

[beachbum]

If I remember correctly they never found the condom just the wrapper on the counter?

[lorettalockhorn]

If I remember correctly they never found the condom just the wrapper on the counter?


True dat. But Kevin was convinced that Nona was the victim of an attempted (minmally) rape. And the defense has leaked information about the DNA of the condom wrapper having been identified, so I'm making the next logical leap.

[guppie]

True dat. But Kevin was convinced that Nona was the victim of an attempted (minmally) rape. And the defense has leaked information about the DNA of the condom wrapper having been identified, so I'm making the next logical leap.

they even took the toilet out to search for that condom in case it was flushed, and they found no sign of it...maybe cuz it was never there???!!!

[guppie]

this is from the other thread on "inconsistences"

In the tapes, he terms his and Dirksmeyer’s relationship as “very, very exclusive,” and tells investigators, “I was her best friend, and she was my best friend.”
Asked to describe Dirksmeyer, he said, “She was as nice as a person could get. ... She didn’t drink, didn’t do drugs.”
Jones did admit during the interviews to having had sexual intercourse with someone besides Dirksmeyer “in the past.” Asked how he would react had he found out Dirksmeyer was “cheating” on him, he said, “I’d just be hurt. I’d question why she did it.”
He expressed surprise when Waid asked him if he had seen the condom wrapper found in Dirksmeyer’s kitchen.
“She would not have sex with anyone but me,” Jones said.



IMO (and this is all IMO) this guy is a "do as i say, not as i do" type. his own words show he is controlling. if he couldn't have nona, then no one could. it's in nearly everything he says on 48 hrs. it emits from him. now you see why i kept asking off the bat about his temperament and what anyone knows about their arguments (as to him being a verbally abusive person.) even his own mother seemed to indicate he that he is in what she said to 48 hrs.

[upallnight]

oh oh oh, forgot to mention...look at the video of the police interrogation where the police first accuse kevin. what does he say?

HE SAYS OVER AND OVER: "CHECK EVERYTHING! CHECK EVERYTHING!"
umm, that says to me: did you see the condom wrapper? did you see the condom wrapper? check the condom wrapper.
hmm, the one he placed there ya mean? how bout it ya'll?

now in the earlier police video (before they accused him of anything) remember, i mentioned how he leaned back in his chair when told of the condom wrapper by police. he said "oh, so she was raped?" if a girl is dead without any clothes on, i believe that anyone's first impression the min you saw her would be she was raped. yet, he seems to only "clue in" to that after he was at the police station when they mention condom to him?
yeah right.

OMG, that is exactly what I told my husband. Great minds think alike, hehe!

[upallnight]

my impression was that JJ did know KJ and nona were having arguments. and when she saw nona's body, that little inner voice said to her, OMG i think my son may have done this. clearly what she saw she KNEW was no accident, but this could have been a mother's intuition minimizing it in her own mind. in other words, telling herself her son did not commit a murder by instead saying it was an "accident." unfortunately for her, she said it outloud to 911, and it's taped and suspicious. IMO she was truly surprised by the scene. her voice does not sound like she was aware before she got there.
although i don't think she knew ahead of time, i DO think she is the type of mother who would lie and cover up a crime scene for her son IF he had told her about it. she gave me that impression herself, not what anyone else said. i am clearly going on only what i saw & heard from KJ and JJ and not anyone's opinions about things.

Um, totally agree.

[Amy]

One quick question? Does a "true" rapist use a condom? Rape is considered a violent crime and how many rapists take the time to use a condom and think about dna being found at the time? I think it was planted by KJ or he found it in the trash in her apt spiking his anger which led to her killing. I think he found out he wasn't the only one anymore and he didn't like it no matter what he says he found out. He probably spied on her and maybe she had another visitor that morning aside from KJ and that really sparked his anger.
He seems to have alot of anger.


I would think the serial rapist WOULD use condoms in this day and age of DNA and all that. I think the serial rapist doesn't make it a crime of opportunity, rather cases the victims, and is prepared. Like the ones who go into the homes, usually having determined at the least that the victim is alone, or that the other people there are too little to help the victim. I would think condoms would be a tool of their trade, so to speak.

[Amy]

this is from the other thread on "inconsistences"

In the tapes, he terms his and Dirksmeyer’s relationship as “very, very exclusive,” and tells investigators, “I was her best friend, and she was my best friend.”
Asked to describe Dirksmeyer, he said, “She was as nice as a person could get. ... She didn’t drink, didn’t do drugs.”
Jones did admit during the interviews to having had sexual intercourse with someone besides Dirksmeyer “in the past.” Asked how he would react had he found out Dirksmeyer was “cheating” on him, he said, “I’d just be hurt. I’d question why she did it.”
He expressed surprise when Waid asked him if he had seen the condom wrapper found in Dirksmeyer’s kitchen.
“She would not have sex with anyone but me,” Jones said.



IMO (and this is all IMO) this guy is a "do as i say, not as i do" type. his own words show he is controlling. if he couldn't have nona, then no one could. it's in nearly everything he says on 48 hrs. it emits from him. now you see why i kept asking off the bat about his temperament and what anyone knows about their arguments (as to him being a verbally abusive person.) even his own mother seemed to indicate he that he is in what she said to 48 hrs.

But, I tho't it was KNOWN in their group of friends (so to speak) that both Nona AND Kevin "slept" with other people. Didn't that come out in the testimony at trial? Where it was allowed for people to portray Nona as someone who slept around, while none of Kevin's behaviour was mentioned?

Was he the only one who didn't know? Or, did he have his head in the sand, or, (gasp) perhaps even LIED?

And, in that same testimony, wasn't drinking and drugs mentioned in relation to Nona?

[CSOKC]

Wow. that's a snazzy new avatar! :biggrin:
I loved Loretta's so much that I thought I needed one of my own!

What a responsible young man.

[FDInLaw]

Like the poor college girl in Fayetteville that was recently raped in her apartment by a man she let in (thinking he was a Termini employee), sometimes rapes do occur in the victims home. Unfortunately, Nona was violently murdered. The type of perpetrators that do both usually snag a victim and take them to a place where they feel safe and then dispose of the body somewhere that they hope it will not be found for some time it at all. If the intent of Nona's murderer was rape, what went wrong??? The evidence seemed to suggest that Nona did not put up much of a fight! That just doesn't fit!

The facts. . .

Nona's apartment showed no signs of being broken into.
She was found naked but was not raped.
She was not strangled to death (which is the most common form of death in rape cases).
She did not put up much of a fight (this might be because she knew the perp OR because the first blow to her face incapacitated her).
She was murdered with a lamp (an item from her home which suggests that the perp did not plan in advance).
The force used was "tremendous" (suggesting rage).

Another thing to consider, statistically perps that rape and kill in one place are considered not "organized" which suggests a lower IQ and as a result the crime scene is usually "messy." Meaning that they usually make mistakes and are easier to catch than an "organized" killer that would behave in the manner I spoke of above.

I believe the evidence best fits a slighted lover. . . the question is, was it Kevin or someone else?

It's my hope that the new dna evidence will answer this once and for all, and that we will know for sure who Killed Nona that fateful day. :rose:

[FDInLaw]

I loved Loretta's so much that I thought I needed one of my own!

What a responsible young man.You two are sooooooo bad lol!

KJ sure had a lot to drink that night!


OH GOSH! Three of you have one!

[CSOKC]

snipped
The facts. . .

Nona's apartment showed no signs of being broken into.
She was found naked but was not raped.
She was not strangled to death (which is the most common form of death in rape cases).
She did not put up much of a fight (this might be because she knew the perp OR because the first blow to her face incapacitated her).
She was murdered with a lamp (an item from her home which suggests that the perp did not plan in advance).
The force used was "tremendous" (suggesting rage).


I believe the evidence best fits a slighted lover. . . the question is, was it Kevin or someone else?

It's my hope that the new dna evidence will answer this once and for all, and that we will know for sure who Killed Nona that fateful day. :rose:

I have a very hard time believing that this could have been a total stranger. The facts just do not support that theory! I truly hope that the defense team has more evidence than just the dna on the condom wrapper. I don't see the person being very cooperative after they figure out that the defense is trying to make them a suspect.

[FDInLaw]

I have a very hard time believing that this could have been a total stranger. The facts just do not support that theory! I truly hope that the defense team has more evidence than just the dna on the condom wrapper. I don't see the person being very cooperative after they figure out that the defense is trying to make them a suspect.Fortunately, this matter is no longer in the hands of the defense. God speed to the new PA and those helping him! :patriot:

[guppie]

I would think the serial rapist WOULD use condoms in this day and age of DNA and all that. I think the serial rapist doesn't make it a crime of opportunity, rather cases the victims, and is prepared. Like the ones who go into the homes, usually having determined at the least that the victim is alone, or that the other people there are too little to help the victim. I would think condoms would be a tool of their trade, so to speak.

there were stats mentioned by Frost (i believe it was) about how many rapists actually commit murder. your point about "serial rapists" brought that to mind. i agree that most serial rapists prob do use condoms in the day & age due to DNA evidence, but nona was not raped.
and do serial rapists usually knock their victim's out by hitting them over the head without even a stuggle before raping them? aren't rape victims usually conscious unless maybe they are kicking, biting, & scratching their attacker and then maybe the attacker might hit them to settle them down. but i don't even see signs there was much of a struggle here...cards still on table, nothing to suggest nona hit or scratched her attacker, etc. (at least i don't think they found foreign DNA under her nails, only nona's own DNA...correct me if i am wrong)

[lorettalockhorn]

In today's Courier:

http://couriernews.com/editorial.php

[lorettalockhorn]

there were stats mentioned by Frost (i believe it was) about how many rapists actually commit murder. your point about "serial rapists" brought that to mind. i agree that most serial rapists prob do use condoms in the day & age due to DNA evidence, but nona was not raped.
and do serial rapists usually knock their victim's out by hitting them over the head without even a stuggle before raping them? aren't rape victims usually conscious unless maybe they are kicking, biting, & scratching their attacker and then maybe the attacker might hit them to settle them down. but i don't even see signs there was much of a struggle here...cards still on table, nothing to suggest nona hit or scratched her attacker, etc. (at least i don't think they found foreign DNA under her nails, only nona's own DNA...correct me if i am wrong)

I still think that the crime scene was staged to look like rape was the motive in this murder. There was also a clothesline nearby, don't think that it was ever testified to if it was something that Nona normally used, to dry her hand washables, for instance. Maybe the perp originally was going to stage a strangulation and lost his nerve. The cuts on her body weren't performed with the same rage as the blow, perhaps they were part of the staging also.

Rape is all about control; just can't imagine a rapist hitting her with such force before raping her. It makes more sense that if the killer was a rapist, that he would have only wanted to kill her afterwards, and even that isn't statistically likely unless it was someone that she knew.

[guppie]

I still think that the crime scene was staged to look like rape was the motive in this murder. There was also a clothesline nearby, don't think that it was ever testified to if it was something that Nona normally used, to dry her hand washables, for instance. Maybe the perp originally was going to stage a strangulation and lost his nerve. The cuts on her body weren't performed with the same rage as the blow, perhaps they were part of the staging also.

Rape is all about control; just can't imagine a rapist hitting her with such force before raping her. It makes more sense that if the killer was a rapist, that he would have only wanted to kill her afterwards, and even that isn't statistically likely unless it was someone that she knew.

what was said in the trial abut the superficial marks on the neck? did the ME testify that they were put there after the blow to the head by the lamp? (as if to appear like there had been strangulation before a supposed rape.) just like the pants appear to have been removed after the fatal blow. what was said my the ME on that evidence?

[lorettalockhorn]

what was said in the trial abut the superficial marks on the neck? did the ME testify that they were put there after the blow to the head by the lamp? (as if to appear like there had been strangulation before a supposed rape.) just like the pants appear to have been removed after the fatal blow. what was said my the ME on that evidence?


A total of 17 cuts, including four superficial stab wounds, were found on the right side of Dirksmeyer’s upper neck and the back of her shoulder, as well as two other cuts on the front of her neck, he said.
He told the jury the cuts were not deep enough to damage any vital tissue in the neck, and were probably administered from behind by someone wielding a knife in their right hand.
Kokes testified that based on the concentration and the location of blood at the scene, the cuts were probably made while Dirksmeyer was laying face-down on the living room carpet with her hands underneath her.
“She was still able to make some attempt to try and defend herself” by hitching up her right shoulder to shield her neck, Kokes said.

http://couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15380&Search=nona%20dirksmeyer

[guppie]

In today's Courier:

http://couriernews.com/editorial.php

defense atty Michael Robbins of Dover sure seems fishy to me (leaker?). but objectively, i guess a leak could have even come from the RPD. let's hope Dateline will conduct more interviews with KJ and mommy so he can keep on self-incriminating. nothing convinced me more that he was guilty other than his and mommy's own words and body lang. it didn't say in the Courier when the Dateline show will air yet.

[guppie]

A total of 17 cuts, including four superficial stab wounds, were found on the right side of Dirksmeyer’s upper neck and the back of her shoulder, as well as two other cuts on the front of her neck, he said.
He told the jury the cuts were not deep enough to damage any vital tissue in the neck, and were probably administered from behind by someone wielding a knife in their right hand.
Kokes testified that based on the concentration and the location of blood at the scene, the cuts were probably made while Dirksmeyer was laying face-down on the living room carpet with her hands underneath her.
“She was still able to make some attempt to try and defend herself” by hitching up her right shoulder to shield her neck, Kokes said.

http://couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15380&Search=nona%20dirksmeyer


that sounds to me like she had already been hit by the lamp and first landed face down. she may not have died immediately by the "fatal blow" and had enough life left to shrug her shoulder when the superficial cuts were made. is that what you are saying too? then maybe he flipped her over face up to pull off her jeans once she was out cold???

but did the ME ever make an opinion as to what came first, the lamp blow to the back of the head or the superficial cuts?

[lorettalockhorn]

that sounds to me like she had already been hit by the lamp and first landed face down. she may not have died immediately by the "fatal blow" and had enough life left to shrug her shoulder when the superficial cuts were made. is that what you are saying too? then maybe he flipped her over face up to pull off her jeans once she was out cold???

but did the ME ever make an opinion as to what came first, the lamp blow to the back of the head or the superficial cuts?

Why would she have to be face up for the jeans to be removed? I left a link to Kokes' testimony. It's not a great synopsis with what regard to sequence of events. Maybe someone who was in the courtroom remembers precisely, or you might read the posts during the trial.

[guppie]

Why would she have to be face up for the jeans to be removed? I left a link to Kokes' testimony. It's not a great synopsis with what regard to sequence of events. Maybe someone who was in the courtroom remembers precisely, or you might read the posts during the trial.

i just thought that it would be easier for the attacker to remove her jeans by turning her over and unbuttoning them first. wasn't she found face up? i will go read kokes' testimony.

[guppie]

i just thought that it would be easier for the attacker to remove her jeans by turning her over and unbuttoning them first. wasn't she found face up? i will go read kokes' testimony.

i stand corrected.
just read it. well, well, well, i guess jones lied about finding her face up then. shocker.

[jonikay]

I just hope that the dna on the wrapper doesn't belong to Trey York.
Well, let me rephrase, I will be shocked if they have found that the dna belongs to Trey York.

[FDInLaw]

I just hope that the dna on the wrapper doesn't belong to Trey York.
Well, let me rephrase, I will be shocked if they have found that the dna belongs to Trey York.That kid would have some serious explaining to do!

[hawgustusgloop]

From today's Courier:

"Gibbons also called into question Jones' recollection of the crime scene, the detail of which he termed "remarkable," in interviews with the police in the days following the discovery of Dirksmeyer's body, noting Jones "told law enforcement that the body was face up when he got there," despite physical evidence suggesting that the body was "left lying facedown for several hours after the time of death.
Also, shedding new light on the caise of death itself, Gibbons suggested in opening statements that Dirksmeyer was the victim of a "three -stage" attack that occurred "very, very fast."
In the initial stage, according to Gibbons, Dirksmeyer was punched and choked, resulting in a broken hyolic bone, which is located in the neck; a hemorrhage in the right eye, which may have been the result of choking; a bruise to the temple, and injury to the upper and lower mouth.
"Nona wouldn've been more or less stunned" at this point, Gibbons said.
During the second stage of the scenario described by Gibbons, Dirksmeyer was attacked with a knife, resulting in several stab wounds to the neck and right shoulder and several "slice-type" marks to the throat. He described her posture during this stage as being of a defensive nature, with wounds suggesting she may have had her shoulders hunched in an attempt to protect her neck and throat.
During the final, lethal stage of the attack, Dirksmeyer was bludgeoned in the back of the skull with the base of a metal floor lamp used "like a hammer," according to Gibbons.
He told the jury the medical examiner believed although this was a lethal blow, Dirksmeyer may have been alive, unconscious, for up to 30 minutes....
Key to Gibbons' opening statement was a transcript he read aloud to the jury of an enhanced portion of a taped interview with Jones at the Russellville Police Department in the aftermath of the murder. During the segment, Jones was alone in the interview room, and can allegedly be heard muttering the following:
"Keep her with the angels. She was a good soul, Lord. She didn't mean any bad. Screw the f-------, for Christ's sake. She meant no harm to anyone, bless her heart. Please keep her safe, Lord. Please Lord, please, for Christ's sake. I am so sorry."

Bumping this old post for those wondering about Nona's injuries. This outlines the prosecution's theory as to what happened. It is hard to read.

[christina]

curious, what was the one piece added? are you saying that the defense gave it to 48 hrs? help me understand. thanks.

I did not say I believed the defense gave 48 Hours anything. And I am lost on the overzealous posts here on that issue as well as the editorial by an unamed/unsigned editor in today's Courier. The 48 Hours team was in town months ago filming and interviewing. The majority of what they showed was public at the trial, with many copies circulating I would guess.
And the defense putting out a news release saying they found a "dna match for a viable suspect" hardly threatens a future case. As you are new and reading through the thread, read what the Courier printed/reported on that the police and prosecutor said prior to Jones' arrest.
The two pieces shown on 48 Hours I did not see at the trial-the interview with the man whose face was blurred, and the interrogation tape.
And welcome to the board.

[lorettalockhorn]

I did not say I believed the defense gave 48 Hours anything. And I am lost on the overzealous posts here on that issue as well as the editorial by an unamed/unsigned editor in today's Courier. The 48 Hours team was in town months ago filming and interviewing. The majority of what they showed was public at the trial, with many copies circulating I would guess.
And the defense putting out a news release saying they found a "dna match for a viable suspect" hardly threatens a future case. As you are new and reading through the thread, read what the Courier printed/reported on that the police and prosecutor said prior to Jones' arrest.
The two pieces shown on 48 Hours I did not see at the trial-the interview with the man whose face was blurred, and the interrogation tape.
And welcome to the board.

Maybe the defense's press release won't hurt a future case, then again, why would they want to give the viable suspect a heads up? So why risk it? And if the DNA was identified Who Knows When, but certainly before the special prosecutor was named, why would the defense make a press release 48-72 hours before the 48 Hours episode was aired? Especially since the records had been ordered sealed by the court? Just irresponsible. Whether Kevin is indeed innocent or guilty.

And does anyone really, really think that RPD and/or the State, the two agencies certain of KJ's guilt, would give CBS the video of another suspect? It has been the defense all along who has been tossing out that particular red herring.

Of course, that's just my logic speaking. I don't have an axe to grind with The Courier, or Gibbons, or RPD, etc.

[lorettalockhorn]

Been (w)racking my brain for the last few minutes wondering if I've ever seen an editorial actually signed by the editor or the members of the editorial staff. And I cannot remember ever.

[upallnight]

I still think that the crime scene was staged to look like rape was the motive in this murder. There was also a clothesline nearby, don't think that it was ever testified to if it was something that Nona normally used, to dry her hand washables, for instance. Maybe the perp originally was going to stage a strangulation and lost his nerve. The cuts on her body weren't performed with the same rage as the blow, perhaps they were part of the staging also.

Rape is all about control; just can't imagine a rapist hitting her with such force before raping her. It makes more sense that if the killer was a rapist, that he would have only wanted to kill her afterwards, and even that isn't statistically likely unless it was someone that she knew.

I have thought about those cuts also, tried to sort out why it may have been done, to torture her, to try to hurt her physical appearance, to try to make it look like the killer must have known her a felt for her, hesitation cuts, etc.
Seems to be really weird the whole thing set to look like a rape scene also per say. In the beginning I wondered if a girl or guy had attacked Nona. With Nona's beauty, amoung much more, possibly jealousy not only from the male type but female. All Nona's doing in competitions etc. If KJ did not kill Nona, I wonder sometimes how likely a it could be that girl could have attacked & killed her and staged it all. Or was someone else involved with one of Nona's male interests and jealousy got the best of her? A girl could get DNA from a total (male) stranger to Nona (as another view of course) if done right. No finger prints of hers, (maybe gloves) I don't know but somehow the male's DNA made contact with that wrapper. OMG, I hope they release soon if this DNA on the wrapper actually will lead to an arrest or not. There is so many could be's, maybe's, but if's. Being the DNA is male DNA on the wrapper, it came from somewhere. How did it get to it's final resting place along with Nona. Or was it just someone she was with and KJ found it etc.,?
Still no evidence other than against KJ, so many things to consider, so little evidence to point to any one other than KJ. (Or is there? Based on what his def., lawyers said) Nothing as of yet. I feel so bad for her family, what they must have to go through every second of everyday.

[hawgustusgloop]

I just want to say that if I were that innocent person whose face was blurred in that interrogation video, I would be pretty ticked off right about now. I think it was irresponsible and unfair for CBS to show that. 99.9% of the viewers across the country wouldn't know or care who it was, but I am sure a lot of people who know who that guy is could figure it out. They made sure to air just the part where that young man says he slept with her 10 times. Give me a break. It makes me sick how they made it look like Nona was sleeping with a bunch of people, yet neglected to discuss Kevin's philandering, drug use, etc. NO mention of the fact that Sweet Pea Kevin was in town for days without telling his parents. NO mention of the alleged rape/voyeurism incident. NO mention of his recent arrest. NO mention of his ridiculous "proposal" scenario. NO mention of the inconsistencies in his statements. When I watch shows like 48 Hours, I naively assume they have no reason to be anything but objective, but I will never see them that way again. :cuss:

[upallnight]

I just hope that the dna on the wrapper doesn't belong to Trey York.
Well, let me rephrase, I will be shocked if they have found that the dna belongs to Trey York.

Welcome back Jonikay! Nice to hear from ya! :seeya:

[upallnight]

That kid would have some serious explaining to do!

Agreed and returning a cake pan he said was the reason he was trying to get in touch with her via/text phone, he said he wanted to get it to her as he closed his tech. room out and no where to put it. And went on this way home to Ashdown etc......... that day. Also the wittness described they guy he saw Nona fighting per say with (on a previous day not right around the day of the attack), while at her apartment-her at the doorway and the guy wearing some type of wrist bands built in the wittnesses description like Trey. This wittness also said he saw this guy taking out trash at one point. Trey stated he never had sex with Nona [/B]etc., she was in his words using him for biology notes/help per say. I wonder who texted to Nona "why are you leading me on"? If that DNA belongs to Trey, yep, he will have some explaining to do Fed, I agree with that. Not sure if that would be enough to obtain a warrent for his arrest for murder but sure would be suspicious if the DNA belonged to him, someone who said he never had sex with Nona. Jonikay, what ya think about Trey? I saw him in court, did you, if so what do you think of him and his testimony?

[guppie]

i just thought that it would be easier for the attacker to remove her jeans by turning her over and unbuttoning them first. wasn't she found face up? i will go read kokes' testimony.

i stand corrected (either that, or kevin told two versions) because he told 48 hrs he came in and flipped her body over. i thought the police report said he told them that he found her face up. ??? i will have to go back and read again.

[guppie]

I did not say I believed the defense gave 48 Hours anything. And I am lost on the overzealous posts here on that issue as well as the editorial by an unamed/unsigned editor in today's Courier. The 48 Hours team was in town months ago filming and interviewing. The majority of what they showed was public at the trial, with many copies circulating I would guess.
And the defense putting out a news release saying they found a "dna match for a viable suspect" hardly threatens a future case. As you are new and reading through the thread, read what the Courier printed/reported on that the police and prosecutor said prior to Jones' arrest.
The two pieces shown on 48 Hours I did not see at the trial-the interview with the man whose face was blurred, and the interrogation tape.
And welcome to the board.


i didn't say you "said" anything. i asked u a question. it has a question mark. i asked for your opinion.
here is a copy of what i wrote, and i don't see how it is meriting such a snippy response from you.
curious, what was the one piece added? are you saying that the defense gave it to 48 hrs? help me understand. thanks.

[guppie]

I just want to say that if I were that innocent person whose face was blurred in that interrogation video, I would be pretty ticked off right about now. I think it was irresponsible and unfair for CBS to show that. 99.9% of the viewers across the country wouldn't know or care who it was, but I am sure a lot of people who know who that guy is could figure it out. They made sure to air just the part where that young man says he slept with her 10 times. Give me a break. It makes me sick how they made it look like Nona was sleeping with a bunch of people, yet neglected to discuss Kevin's philandering, drug use, etc. NO mention of the fact that Sweet Pea Kevin was in town for days without telling his parents. NO mention of the alleged rape/voyeurism incident. NO mention of his recent arrest. NO mention of his ridiculous "proposal" scenario. NO mention of the inconsistencies in his statements. When I watch shows like 48 Hours, I naively assume they have no reason to be anything but objective, but I will never see them that way again. :cuss:

well, they call it 48 HRS MYSTERY so if they gave all those facts, there would be no MYSTERY..get me?

[jonikay]

well, they call it 48 HRS MYSTERY so if they gave all those facts, there would be no MYSTERY..get me?

Good one . . . I guess explaining all the incriminating details of the case would literally take 48 hours. They wouldn't have had enough time to discuss both sides of this, so they chose KJ's. I still feel like the wrapper dna is a total smokescreen and it will be truly anticlimatic when we find out who the donor is. Typical of how this whole thing has gone so far. It makes me think about the "big deals" that were made by the defense before the trial, like Jeremy Martin, and never, ever mentioned even once in the courtroom.

[guppie]

Originally Posted by lorettalockhorn
From today's Courier:

"Gibbons also called into question Jones' recollection of the crime scene, the detail of which he termed "remarkable," in interviews with the police in the days following the discovery of Dirksmeyer's body, noting Jones "told law enforcement that the body was face up when he got there," despite physical evidence suggesting that the body was "left lying facedown for several hours after the time of death.Also, shedding new light on the caise of death itself, Gibbons suggested in opening statements that Dirksmeyer was the victim of a "three -stage" attack that occurred "very, very fast."
In the initial stage, according to Gibbons, Dirksmeyer was punched and choked, resulting in a broken hyolic bone, which is located in the neck; a hemorrhage in the right eye, which may have been the result of choking; a bruise to the temple, and injury to the upper and lower mouth.
"Nona wouldn've been more or less stunned" at this point, Gibbons said.
During the second stage of the scenario described by Gibbons, Dirksmeyer was attacked with a knife, resulting in several stab wounds to the neck and right shoulder and several "slice-type" marks to the throat. He described her posture during this stage as being of a defensive nature, with wounds suggesting she may have had her shoulders hunched in an attempt to protect her neck and throat.
During the final, lethal stage of the attack, Dirksmeyer was bludgeoned in the back of the skull with the base of a metal floor lamp used "like a hammer," according to Gibbons.
He told the jury the medical examiner believed although this was a lethal blow, Dirksmeyer may have been alive, unconscious, for up to 30 minutes....
Key to Gibbons' opening statement was a transcript he read aloud to the jury of an enhanced portion of a taped interview with Jones at the Russellville Police Department in the aftermath of the murder. During the segment, Jones was alone in the interview room, and can allegedly be heard muttering the following:
"Keep her with the angels. She was a good soul, Lord. She didn't mean any bad. Screw the f-------, for Christ's sake. She meant no harm to anyone, bless her heart. Please keep her safe, Lord. Please Lord, please, for Christ's sake. I am so sorry."


actually no, i don't stand corrected. holy crap! KJ told police he found nona face up, yet he clearly said to 48 hrs that he "ran inside and turned her over" (to where she was then face up). he says RW saw her first, so RW would have to know which way she was facing too.
another ques: if she was face down when KJ arrived, then why would he need to '"feel around on the back of her head" (as he acted out in the 48 hrs video) to see where the injury was? he wouldn't need to put his hands all in it. he could see the injury if she was face down. so IMO, giving CPR would not have required him putting his hands all in her blood (contam the scene) if the blood was primarily in the back of her head.

[jonikay]

IIRC, the prosecution stated during the trial that KJ turned her over. Also, IIRC, that fact was not disputed at all throughout the course of the trial. Many, many inconsistencies were glazed over by the prosecution during the trial, ie mentioned, but not "pounched upon," this being one of them. So, he lied about the position of her body. That's about as far as that discussion went.

[guppie]

Good one . . . I guess explaining all the incriminating details of the case would literally take 48 hours. They wouldn't have had enough time to discuss both sides of this, so they chose KJ's. I still feel like the wrapper dna is a total smokescreen and it will be truly anticlimatic when we find out who the donor is. Typical of how this whole thing has gone so far. It makes me think about the "big deals" that were made by the defense before the trial, like Jeremy Martin, and never, ever mentioned even once in the courtroom.


IMO, KJ totally incrim himself in that show. if 48 hrs was intended to be sided toward KJ, then they should not have let him speak. and def should not have let his mommy speak. good lawd! people i know who saw the show thought, OMG another O.J.! i polled some friends and fam here in TN who watched it...all of them said he seemed guilty and got away with it. so this was not a scientific poll.

[lorettalockhorn]

I just want to say that if I were that innocent person whose face was blurred in that interrogation video, I would be pretty ticked off right about now. I think it was irresponsible and unfair for CBS to show that. 99.9% of the viewers across the country wouldn't know or care who it was, but I am sure a lot of people who know who that guy is could figure it out. They made sure to air just the part where that young man says he slept with her 10 times. Give me a break. It makes me sick how they made it look like Nona was sleeping with a bunch of people, yet neglected to discuss Kevin's philandering, drug use, etc. NO mention of the fact that Sweet Pea Kevin was in town for days without telling his parents. NO mention of the alleged rape/voyeurism incident. NO mention of his recent arrest. NO mention of his ridiculous "proposal" scenario. NO mention of the inconsistencies in his statements. When I watch shows like 48 Hours, I naively assume they have no reason to be anything but objective, but I will never see them that way again. :cuss:

Amen.

[lorettalockhorn]

Originally Posted by lorettalockhorn
From today's Courier:

"Gibbons also called into question Jones' recollection of the crime scene, the detail of which he termed "remarkable," in interviews with the police in the days following the discovery of Dirksmeyer's body, noting Jones "told law enforcement that the body was face up when he got there," despite physical evidence suggesting that the body was "left lying facedown for several hours after the time of death.Also, shedding new light on the caise of death itself, Gibbons suggested in opening statements that Dirksmeyer was the victim of a "three -stage" attack that occurred "very, very fast."
In the initial stage, according to Gibbons, Dirksmeyer was punched and choked, resulting in a broken hyolic bone, which is located in the neck; a hemorrhage in the right eye, which may have been the result of choking; a bruise to the temple, and injury to the upper and lower mouth.
"Nona wouldn've been more or less stunned" at this point, Gibbons said.
During the second stage of the scenario described by Gibbons, Dirksmeyer was attacked with a knife, resulting in several stab wounds to the neck and right shoulder and several "slice-type" marks to the throat. He described her posture during this stage as being of a defensive nature, with wounds suggesting she may have had her shoulders hunched in an attempt to protect her neck and throat.
During the final, lethal stage of the attack, Dirksmeyer was bludgeoned in the back of the skull with the base of a metal floor lamp used "like a hammer," according to Gibbons.
He told the jury the medical examiner believed although this was a lethal blow, Dirksmeyer may have been alive, unconscious, for up to 30 minutes....
Key to Gibbons' opening statement was a transcript he read aloud to the jury of an enhanced portion of a taped interview with Jones at the Russellville Police Department in the aftermath of the murder. During the segment, Jones was alone in the interview room, and can allegedly be heard muttering the following:
"Keep her with the angels. She was a good soul, Lord. She didn't mean any bad. Screw the f-------, for Christ's sake. She meant no harm to anyone, bless her heart. Please keep her safe, Lord. Please Lord, please, for Christ's sake. I am so sorry."


actually no, i don't stand corrected. holy crap! KJ told police he found nona face up, yet he clearly said to 48 hrs that he "ran inside and turned her over" (to where she was then face up). he says RW saw her first, so RW would have to know which way she was facing too.
another ques: if she was face down when KJ arrived, then why would he need to '"feel around on the back of her head" (as he acted out in the 48 hrs video) to see where the injury was? he wouldn't need to put his hands all in it. he could see the injury if she was face down. so IMO, giving CPR would not have required him putting his hands all in her blood (contam the scene) if the blood was primarily in the back of her head.


To the best of my knowledge, there was never any testimony that he attempted CPR. Straddling Nona, lying on Nona's body to "keep her warm", and lifting her from the floor as the EMS personnel described, are not resucitation attempts. Not in my book, anyway.

[christina]

i didn't say you "said" anything. i asked u a question. it has a question mark. i asked for your opinion.
here is a copy of what i wrote, and i don't see how it is meriting such a snippy response from you.



Didn't intend that as snippy- sorry you took it that way.

[jonikay]

Ok, lo. According to my notes, the prosecution stated in opening statements that KJ said he laid on Nona's body to "keep her warm," but the defense stated in opening statements that he actually tried to resuscitate her, but her jaw was already too tightly closed because at that point, it was already way too late. This again was not mentioned very often and may have only been mentioned during opening statements. It was, however, mentioned. You are right about EMS testimony. Please someone (Christina?) correct me if I am wrong.

[lorettalockhorn]

IIRC, the prosecution stated during the trial that KJ turned her over. Also, IIRC, that fact was not disputed at all throughout the course of the trial. Many, many inconsistencies were glazed over by the prosecution during the trial, ie mentioned, but not "pounched upon," this being one of them. So, he lied about the position of her body. That's about as far as that discussion went.

Kokes' testimony made it clear that Nona was face down from the time of the murder until discovery. Why the prosecution didn't find a way to iterate that to the jury is beyond me. Of course, it may not have mattered to the jury that Kevin lied, the reason that it matters to me is because it's simply one reason that I consider him to be a liar.

[christina]

To the best of my knowledge, there was never any testimony that he attempted CPR. Straddling Nona, lying on Nona's body to "keep her warm", and lifting her from the floor as the EMS personnel described, are not resucitation attempts. Not in my book, anyway.

I remember the paramedic/emt testifying Kevin told her that he found her face down and turned her over to perform cpr.

[lorettalockhorn]

Ok, lo. According to my notes, the prosecution stated in opening statements that KJ said he laid on Nona's body to "keep her warm," but the defense stated in opening statements that he actually tried to resuscitate her, but her jaw was already too tightly closed because at that point, it was already way too late. This again was not mentioned very often and may have only been mentioned during opening statements. It was, however, mentioned. You are right about EMS testimony. Please someone (Christina?) correct me if I am wrong.

To the best of my knowledge, there was no testimony from RW or JJ that he actually attempted CPR. Nor did the Paramedic Brown testify that she witnessed him attempt CPR.

[lorettalockhorn]

I remember the paramedic/emt testifying Kevin told her that he found her face down and turned her over to perform cpr.

Exactly. Hearsay.

[christina]

Been (w)racking my brain for the last few minutes wondering if I've ever seen an editorial actually signed by the editor or the members of the editorial staff. And I cannot remember ever.

They usually put a picture of Perkins next to it or sign it with another name if its local. But the Courier has adopted a practice of using editorials from other papers in the past year. You don't need to wrack your brain, just look back over the past month.

[christina]

Exactly. Hearsay.

Agreed that it is hearsay but it was testified to at trial. I do believe Whiteside said it as well.

[guppie]

I just want to say that if I were that innocent person whose face was blurred in that interrogation video, I would be pretty ticked off right about now. I think it was irresponsible and unfair for CBS to show that. 99.9% of the viewers across the country wouldn't know or care who it was, but I am sure a lot of people who know who that guy is could figure it out. They made sure to air just the part where that young man says he slept with her 10 times. Give me a break. It makes me sick how they made it look like Nona was sleeping with a bunch of people, yet neglected to discuss Kevin's philandering, drug use, etc. NO mention of the fact that Sweet Pea Kevin was in town for days without telling his parents. NO mention of the alleged rape/voyeurism incident. NO mention of his recent arrest. NO mention of his ridiculous "proposal" scenario. NO mention of the inconsistencies in his statements. When I watch shows like 48 Hours, I naively assume they have no reason to be anything but objective, but I will never see them that way again. :cuss:

all i can say is people can get to the truth if they really want to. 48 hrs had less than 45 min to present that show. jonikay is right. KJ's list of improprieties is so long it would take 48 hrs to list them all. so maybe 48 hrs did include some at first and they got edited out. who knows. at least you got new interest in the case. it doesn't take long (a few days) to find out about all these other incidences with KJ. KJ did NOT look like a sweet pea to anyone i know who watched in memphis...just to let you know.

[jonikay]

You're right. The only person who would've been able to testify to that in all its truth was KJ. RW is completely discounted in my opinion, given that he was named a hostile witness.

[lorettalockhorn]

Agreed that it is hearsay but it was testified to at trial. I do believe Whiteside said it as well.


Really? I don't remember that ever being discussed before. Just that RW contradicted himself about pulling Kevin away from Nona's body, then encouraging him to keep doing what he was doing. But nothing about CPR.

[lorettalockhorn]

They usually put a picture of Perkins next to it or sign it with another name if its local. But the Courier has adopted a practice of using editorials from other papers in the past year. You don't need to wrack your brain, just look back over the past month.

Sorry, I thought that you were referring to the oped that appears each day on the upper left of P2. I read several newspapers and those are not signed. Yes, the syndicated pieces do have bylines. At any rate, I'll assume that today's editorial is an official statement from the editorial staff.

[guppie]

Kokes' testimony made it clear that Nona was face down from the time of the murder until discovery. Why the prosecution didn't find a way to iterate that to the jury is beyond me. Of course, it may not have mattered to the jury that Kevin lied, the reason that it matters to me is because it's simply one reason that I consider him to be a liar.

that was my point...a LIE. was just trying not to be "overzealous!"
also, when i said "CPR", i was certainly using the term loosely (should have said "IF"). i dont think they ever said KJ knew CPR, and i don't even know that he was being told on the 911 call how to perform it. so i am of the opinion there was no CPR at that time. i think KJ just wanted it to appear as if he was doing CPR (excuse for blood on hands) although, as i said, there was still no reason to reach around feeling in the back of her head even if he had been performing CPR!

[guppie]

Didn't intend that as snippy- sorry you took it that way.

no problem. it just came across that you called me overzealous. maybe you were meaning someone else. doesn't matter. so let's get back to what we know or what our opinions are about the case not each other...ok.

so do you know what RW said about the position of the nona's body when he first saw her thru the sliding door? why do you think KJ changed his story there?

[lorettalockhorn]

that was my point...a LIE. was just trying not to be "overzealous!"
also, when i said "CPR", i was certainly using the term loosely (should have said "IF"). i dont think they ever said KJ knew CPR, and i don't even know that he was being told on the 911 call how to perform it. so i am of the opinion there was no CPR at that time. i think KJ just wanted it to appear as if he was doing CPR (excuse for blood on hands) although, as i said, there was still no reason to reach around feeling in the back of her head even if he had been performing CPR!

Don't know if he knew CPR, but if he didn't he certainly couldn't have learned anything about it, since he did not stay on the line as the 911 operator requested. What he did do just doesn't fall in the realm of resuscitation. In fact had Nona been alive, he could have further injured her.

[guppie]

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15339&Search=kevin%20jones

Bailey was in Dirksmeyer’s biology lab group, along with Vallee, James “Trey” York and Zack Walker, she said.
On Dec. 15, she said Dirksmeyer arrived late to the biology final exam.
“Living off campus, she sometimes came in late,” Bailey said. She said she saved a special pen used for the exams for Dirksmeyer so she could take the test.
Bailey finished and left before Dirksmeyer, she said, and tried to call her later regarding their grades on a class project. She said she used the biology professor’s cell phone to call Dirksmeyer at 9:34, but couldn’t reach her. When she called again at 10:14, Dirksmeyer answered the phone, she said.
She testified Dirksmeyer talked to her about Dirksmeyer’s relationship with Jones, which Bailey said “didn’t seem healthy.”
“They fought a lot verbally,” she said. “I knew she thought he had cheated on her and she had cheated on him like a retaliation.”
During cross-examination, defense attorney Kenneth Johnson asked Bailey if she and her boyfriend ever fought.
She said they don’t yell at each other, a fact she relayed to Dirksmeyer during their conversations. “Nona said, ‘That’s nice because we really yell when we get mad,’” she said.

found this, jonikay. if you know of any other testimony re: verbal abuse plz send links.

[guppie]

Don't know if he knew CPR, but if he didn't he certainly couldn't have learned anything about it, since he did not stay on the line as the 911 operator requested. What he did do just doesn't fall in the realm of resuscitation. In fact had Nona been alive, he could have further injured her.

agreed. i remember getting to the hospital less than 15 min after my grandma died. she was already cold. that was the weirdest sensation because i had never felt a dead person before. i did not need to feel all over her and flip her around to tell!
KJ knew nona was dead. putting his hands all in her blood could only have served one purpose in IMO.

[guppie]

You're not the only one that has embraced this line of logic. The problem I have is that the print appeared "tacky" days later. . . this in mind, and as Bacon testified, his use of this word was not referring to substance but to appearance. In my mind, if it appeared "tacky" days later it obviously could have been dry at the time Bacon first observed it, meaning Kevin could have left it during the murder. IMO the defense successfully used a confusing comment to their advantage and this case very well may have been decided by this very situation. To me this is heartbreaking, the jury, instead of listening to what Bacon meant got caught up in what the defense wanted them to believe Bacon meant. On top of this, the jury ignored Bacon's testimony about how difficult (impossible) it would have been for Kevin to make the print from where he straddled the body. Then there is the FACT that Kevin claimed he did not touch the lamp and both witnesses concurred with this. Justice appears to have hinged on one word.

I'm not impressed with the jury, but I certainly won't focus my frustration at them. They only were allowed a snap shot of the situation. There were other people that could have taken the stand to testify about the problems Kevin and Nona were having, but short of Sarah Bailey's brief statements, the jury was given the idea that there were no problems. Also, there was evidence that Kevin knew about Nona's other relationships. This would have established motive, yet the jury didn't hear about it. I'm left totally confused with a million questions. Folks have got on here and suggested that it's just time for people like me to move on and accept that Kevin is "innocent." I sincerely wish I could. Maybe if the jury would have been allowed to see the complete picture I would be able to accept their verdict. As it stands, the boy they saw on trial was a fraud, a fake, a lie. . . how could any of us expect them to see the truth?


:shrug:

i'm up late digging thru old stuff and found this. i would like to know what else (yes HEARSAY) nona said to others about problems b/t her & KJ. fights, etc. apparently you have reason to think nona said these things to people besides sara bailey. nona must have said something, just maybe not to her mother. often close relatives don't know what is going on. in case a couple stays together, the person being abused doesn't want the reputation of the abuser to be tarnished in the future in-laws minds. that is my opinion.

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw
You're not the only one that has embraced this line of logic. The problem I have is that the print appeared "tacky" days later. . . this in mind, and as Bacon testified, his use of this word was not referring to substance but to appearance. In my mind, if it appeared "tacky" days later it obviously could have been dry at the time Bacon first observed it, meaning Kevin could have left it during the murder. IMO the defense successfully used a confusing comment to their advantage and this case very well may have been decided by this very situation. To me this is heartbreaking, the jury, instead of listening to what Bacon meant got caught up in what the defense wanted them to believe Bacon meant. On top of this, the jury ignored Bacon's testimony about how difficult (impossible) it would have been for Kevin to make the print from where he straddled the body. Then there is the FACT that Kevin claimed he did not touch the lamp and both witnesses concurred with this. Justice appears to have hinged on one word.

I'm not impressed with the jury, but I certainly won't focus my frustration at them. They only were allowed a snap shot of the situation. There were other people that could have taken the stand to testify about the problems Kevin and Nona were having, but short of Sarah Bailey's brief statements, the jury was given the idea that there were no problems. Also, there was evidence that Kevin knew about Nona's other relationships. This would have established motive, yet the jury didn't hear about it. I'm left totally confused with a million questions. Folks have got on here and suggested that it's just time for people like me to move on and accept that Kevin is "innocent." I sincerely wish I could. Maybe if the jury would have been allowed to see the complete picture I would be able to accept their verdict. As it stands, the boy they saw on trial was a fraud, a fake, a lie. . . how could any of us expect them to see the truth?

This is all so true Fed, well said.

[FDInLaw]

To the best of my knowledge, there was never any testimony that he attempted CPR. Straddling Nona, lying on Nona's body to "keep her warm", and lifting her from the floor as the EMS personnel described, are not resucitation attempts. Not in my book, anyway.

I remember the paramedic/emt testifying Kevin told her that he found her face down and turned her over to perform cpr.
IIRC the first time CPR was mentioned in the press was after Kevin's arrest by his lawyer. . . I always thought this was strange. So, it was mentioned during the trial? Thanks, Christina! :seeya:

Did you ever find your notes???

[jonikay]

IIRC, it was mentioned--not discussed. The defense leaned more toward resuscitation than CPR, but her mouth would not open so CPR was never performed. This may have only been mentioned during the defense team's opening statements, I don't know. Any other testimony had to have only been that he initially tried to perform CPR but could not due to the fact that her mouth was tightly shut.

[FDInLaw]

IIRC, it was mentioned--not discussed. The defense leaned more toward resuscitation than CPR, but her mouth would not open so CPR was never performed. This may have only been mentioned during the defense team's opening statements, I don't know. Any other testimony had to have only been that he initially tried to perform CPR but could not due to the fact that her mouth was tightly shut.Thank you for more details. . . I never got how he could have possibly preformed CPR. This makes sense.

The fact that he even attempted it has always been weird to me. . . she must have been obviously dead at that point. Yes, a loved one might be so distraught and do this BUT would the same loved one chat about Law & Order on the scene and make such a calm 911 call? Also, Gibbons stated during the trial that Kevin gave a very good description of the crime scene. For someone so distraught, he was sure paying attention! It doesn't add up in my mind. Guess initially he could have been frantic, but then calmed down for the call??? Who knows, and weird behavior is not a clear indicator of guilt. I'm just trying to piece together his behavior on the scene.

GOOD GOLLY! When are we going to hear more about the new investigation? I'm dying here! (No pun intended). I'm not looking forward to the possibility of being wrong all this time, but if Nona was killed by someone other than KJ, I'd sure like to see him/her brought to justice! JUSTICE FOR NONA!!! :rose:

[LurkerNoMore]

Exactly. Hearsay.

My undersanding is that it is not hearsay if person A tells something to person B, then person B tells what A said on the stand, because B was told directly by A.

Just clarifying the definition of hearsay, not challenging the facts.

[christina]

Thank you for more details. . . I never got how he could have possibly preformed CPR. This makes sense.

The fact that he even attempted it has always been weird to me. . . she must have been obviously dead at that point. Yes, a loved one might be so distraught and do this BUT would the same loved one chat about Law & Order on the scene and make such a calm 911 call? Also, Gibbons stated during the trial that Kevin gave a very good description of the crime scene. For someone so distraught, he was sure paying attention! It doesn't add up in my mind. Guess initially he could have been frantic, but then calmed down for the call??? Who knows, and weird behavior is not a clear indicator of guilt. I'm just trying to piece together his behavior on the scene.

GOOD GOLLY! When are we going to hear more about the new investigation? I'm dying here! (No pun intended). I'm not looking forward to the possibility of being wrong all this time, but if Nona was killed by someone other than KJ, I'd sure like to see him/her brought to justice! JUSTICE FOR NONA!!! :rose:

No drat, haven't found those notes- glad I put them in a "safe, secure" place!!!
A couple of thoughts here- the entire 911 call was played at the trial, I did not interpret Jones to be unusually calm as others have suggested. I asked a few others present at the trial and they did not either. At times it sounded like bedlam with all three calling things out to each other.
The Law and Order thing- I have stated before on the forum what the actual testimony by the officer on scene was and I will repeat it here because it is far different from what others repeat. The officer who drove Jones to the police station from the crime scene testified that when he told Jones he would have to ride in the back of the car(un hand cuffed) Jones said, "I know, I have watched (name your crime show here). That was all. It was one simple mention to one officer.
I am glad to see your comment on behavior not neccessarily being an indicator of guilt and I agree. Jones behavoir at the scene and since are included there in my opinion.
As for justice for Nona- I too hope that if this new evidence helps find who murdered her- it is swift and sure. And I pray that the healing on both sides will be as well.

[lorettalockhorn]

My undersanding is that it is not hearsay if person A tells something to person B, then person B tells what A said on the stand, because B was told directly by A.

Just clarifying the definition of hearsay, not challenging the facts.

Wonder if the legal definition differs from the dictionary definition; evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness. To my knowledge, there was no direct testimony that Kevin attempted CPR, what he did do would have caused more injury than good, and it should have been obvious that Nona was dead and not from an accident. Why not step back and avoid tainting the scene?

That no one noticed his attempt at CPR makes me think that no one would have noticed him planting the condom wrapper.

[lorettalockhorn]

if Nona was killed by someone other than KJ, I'd sure like to see him/her brought to justice! JUSTICE FOR NONA!!! :rose:

I think that pretty well sums it up for everyone.

[CSOKC]

I have thought about those cuts also, tried to sort out why it may have been done, to torture her, to try to hurt her physical appearance, to try to make it look like the killer must have known her a felt for her, hesitation cuts, etc.
Seems to be really weird the whole thing set to look like a rape scene also per say. In the beginning I wondered if a girl or guy had attacked Nona. With Nona's beauty, amoung much more, possibly jealousy not only from the male type but female. All Nona's doing in competitions etc. If KJ did not kill Nona, I wonder sometimes how likely a it could be that girl could have attacked & killed her and staged it all. Or was someone else involved with one of Nona's male interests and jealousy got the best of her? A girl could get DNA from a total (male) stranger to Nona (as another view of course) if done right. No finger prints of hers, (maybe gloves) I don't know but somehow the male's DNA made contact with that wrapper. OMG, I hope they release soon if this DNA on the wrapper actually will lead to an arrest or not. There is so many could be's, maybe's, but if's. Being the DNA is male DNA on the wrapper, it came from somewhere. How did it get to it's final resting place along with Nona. Or was it just someone she was with and KJ found it etc.,?
Still no evidence other than against KJ, so many things to consider, so little evidence to point to any one other than KJ. (Or is there? Based on what his def., lawyers said) Nothing as of yet. I feel so bad for her family, what they must have to go through every second of everyday.
I had heard rumors of this before, but then I remembered that "tremendous" force was used to swing the lamp. I just don't think that a girl could have done that.

[guppie]

No drat, haven't found those notes- glad I put them in a "safe, secure" place!!!
A couple of thoughts here- the entire 911 call was played at the trial, I did not interpret Jones to be unusually calm as others have suggested. I asked a few others present at the trial and they did not either. At times it sounded like bedlam with all three calling things out to each other.
The Law and Order thing- I have stated before on the forum what the actual testimony by the officer on scene was and I will repeat it here because it is far different from what others repeat. The officer who drove Jones to the police station from the crime scene testified that when he told Jones he would have to ride in the back of the car(un hand cuffed) Jones said, "I know, I have watched (name your crime show here). That was all. It was one simple mention to one officer.
I am glad to see your comment on behavior not neccessarily being an indicator of guilt and I agree. Jones behavoir at the scene and since are included there in my opinion.
As for justice for Nona- I too hope that if this new evidence helps find who murdered her- it is swift and sure. And I pray that the healing on both sides will be as well.

oh gees, well in the part of the 911 call they played on 48 hrs, KJ was as cool as a cucumber (i would say IMO but i doubt it is only my opinion). my husband said "that guy sounds like he was calling a car dealership to buy a car or something." (yes, my husband used to be in car sales). the way he calmly says things and enunciates his own name. it gives me the creeps. i have listened to that a few times, and it isn't right.

you obviously heard more of the tape than i did on TV, so did you think they cut out the part where he sounds upset? would love to know more. thanks.

[guppie]

No drat, haven't found those notes- glad I put them in a "safe, secure" place!!!
A couple of thoughts here- the entire 911 call was played at the trial, I did not interpret Jones to be unusually calm as others have suggested. I asked a few others present at the trial and they did not either. At times it sounded like bedlam with all three calling things out to each other.
The Law and Order thing- I have stated before on the forum what the actual testimony by the officer on scene was and I will repeat it here because it is far different from what others repeat. The officer who drove Jones to the police station from the crime scene testified that when he told Jones he would have to ride in the back of the car(un hand cuffed) Jones said, "I know, I have watched (name your crime show here). That was all. It was one simple mention to one officer.
I am glad to see your comment on behavior not neccessarily being an indicator of guilt and I agree. Jones behavoir at the scene and since are included there in my opinion.
As for justice for Nona- I too hope that if this new evidence helps find who murdered her- it is swift and sure. And I pray that the healing on both sides will be as well.


hey christina, it's interesting talking to someone with a different view of this so i can try to be as objective as possible. i read that in some minds trey york acted very suspicious and aggitated (my words) in the hallway of the courthouse. there was testimony about his text, his packing that day, coke spilling in car, etc.

what is your personal opinion of trey york? i am assuming that if you have "notes" then you were at court and observed this guy. what was he like (IYO) on the stand? i personally (right now) don't think TY is the murderer, but i wasn't there to see him myself.

help me see thru your eyes a moment. what did YOU feel about him in particular? after all the reading i have been doing, TY seems to be the only other person (other than mayor's son i guess) that anyone continually mentions.

[Amy]

Wonder if the legal definition differs from the dictionary definition; evidence based on the reports of others rather than the personal knowledge of a witness. To my knowledge, there was no direct testimony that Kevin attempted CPR, what he did do would have caused more injury than good, and it should have been obvious that Nona was dead and not from an accident. Why not step back and avoid tainting the scene?

That no one noticed his attempt at CPR makes me think that no one would have noticed him planting the condom wrapper.

Wasn't the information from the witness just that he said he had turned her over? Not that he had attempted CPR? It sounds to me like, the CPR thing was something the lawyer jumped on as a reason for KJ to have turned her over, later, not that KJ ever claimed that at the time?

[CSOKC]

Wasn't the information from the witness just that he said he had turned her over? Not that he had attempted CPR? It sounds to me like, the CPR thing was something the lawyer jumped on as a reason for KJ to have turned her over, later, not that KJ ever claimed that at the time?
Could they have been using the CPR as a reason for Kevin to have blood on his face? Or was that explained some other way?

[guppie]

Wasn't the information from the witness just that he said he had turned her over? Not that he had attempted CPR? It sounds to me like, the CPR thing was something the lawyer jumped on as a reason for KJ to have turned her over, later, not that KJ ever claimed that at the time?

yes, that was what i was saying earlier. i just may not have put it the right way. IMO, KJ's lawyer's knew that KJ needed a good reason to be flipping her over...so IMO they came up with CPR. the only logical reason to flip her would be to give CPR, and i think we all agree that KJ clearly did not do this. and if you saw what i wrote about my grandma 15 min after her death, i conclude KJ certainly would have known nona was dead when he flipped her. i feel sure that coldness and rigor didn't escape his attention before he put his hands on the back of her head.
remember now and watch the video. KJ clearly states to 48 hrs, he reached around the back of her head (and he motions with his own hands this way) to feel for her wound. if she was face down when he arrived, he could SEE the wound. why would he need to reach around her head, except to contaminate? did it escape the jury's attention that he had no reason to be doing that? this is what i keep going back to. i know someone will chew me a new one, but i'm venting here.

[guppie]

Could they have been using the CPR as a reason for Kevin to have blood on his face? Or was that explained some other way?


i want to hear from you too on my last post to amy. thanks!

[guppie]

Could they have been using the CPR as a reason for Kevin to have blood on his face? Or was that explained some other way?


that is how it came across to me...an excuse to have blood on his face would have been giving CPR. yet, don't we all know he did not perform that? i say to all KJ fans, show me testimony where he performed CPR because he knew how and did it, or asked the 911 operator how to and did it, or where he listened while the 911 operator instructed him and did it. then i will eat crow.
still, what is with the excuses for reaching around her head? where does CPR include that???

[lorettalockhorn]

yes, that was what i was saying earlier. i just may not have put it the right way. IMO, KJ's lawyer's knew that KJ needed a good reason to be flipping her over...so IMO they came up with CPR. the only logical reason to flip her would be to give CPR, and i think we all agree that KJ clearly did not do this. and if you saw what i wrote about my grandma 15 min after her death, i conclude KJ certainly would have known nona was dead when he flipped her. i feel sure that coldness and rigor didn't escape his attention before he put his hands on the back of her head.
remember now and watch the video. KJ clearly states to 48 hrs, he reached around the back of her head (and he motions with his own hands this way) to feel for her wound. if she was face down when he arrived, he could SEE the wound. why would he need to reach around her head, except to contaminate? did it escape the jury's attention that he had no reason to be doing that? this is what i keep going back to. i know someone will chew me a new one, but i venting here.

I don't take issue with him turning her over; it was dark, he may not have realized that her color and rigor would indicate that she was dead until he actually touched her. But to continue to straddle her, lift her, lie on her, is just anathema (to me anyway). Recoiling in horror would be a more normal reaction (to me anyway). And to continue his "resuscitation attempt" even after the arrival of rescue personnel is unreal. You would think that his mother would have told him to get away from her, or that the three of them would have wanted to go outside. Why the determination to bloody himself? And the manner in which he offerred, then withdrew his hand from Bacon when they met is just wonky.

[guppie]

I don't take issue with him turning her over; it was dark, he may not have realized that her color and rigor would indicate that she was dead until he actually touched her. But to continue to straddle her, lift her, lie on her, is just anathema (to me anyway). Recoiling in horror would be a more normal reaction (to me anyway). And to continue his "resuscitation attempt" even after the arrival of rescue personnel is unreal. You would think that his mother would have told him to get away from her, or that the three of them would have wanted to go outside. Why the determination to bloody himself? And the manner in which he offerred, then withdrew his hand from Bacon when they met is just wonky.

no, i have no issue with him turning her over...except he told two STORIES about it!

he had no reason to reach around to find the source of the blood
why would he need to? CPR (had it been given) takes place on the front of a body!

it was what he did AFTER he turned he over that i have issue with.

[CSOKC]

yes, that was what i was saying earlier. i just may not have put it the right way. IMO, KJ's lawyer's knew that KJ needed a good reason to be flipping her over...so IMO they came up with CPR. the only logical reason to flip her would be to give CPR, and i think we all agree that KJ clearly did not do this. and if you saw what i wrote about my grandma 15 min after her death, i conclude KJ certainly would have known nona was dead when he flipped her. i feel sure that coldness and rigor didn't escape his attention before he put his hands on the back of her head.
remember now and watch the video. KJ clearly states to 48 hrs, he reached around the back of her head (and he motions with his own hands this way) to feel for her wound. if she was face down when he arrived, he could SEE the wound. why would he need to reach around her head, except to contaminate? did it escape the jury's attention that he had no reason to be doing that? this is what i keep going back to. i know someone will chew me a new one, but i'm venting here.
From what I can tell it doesn't seem like the jury really thought about much at all. Especially not anything other than what was clearly presented to them, and even most of that they seemed to ignore. Of course he would have known she was dead when he flipped her over! And I completely agree with Loretta about the bloody hand thing...just creepy.

[guppie]

From what I can tell it doesn't seem like the jury really thought about much at all. Especially not anything other than what was clearly presented to them, and even most of that they seemed to ignore. Of course he would have known she was dead when he flipped her over! And I completely agree with Loretta about the bloody hand thing...just creepy.


creepy, is how calm, cool, and collectively he enunciates his name and findings about nona's condition when talking to 911.
was there a part where he was hysterical or anything because that was not played??? i only heard his mommy freaking out. now SHE seemed truly surprised, not kevin. IMO
christina differs here. i want to hear from her on this one. did she find her notes?

[CSOKC]

creepy, is how calm, cool, and collectively he enunciates his name and findings about nona's condition when talking to 911.
was there a part where he was hysterical or anything because that was not played??? i only heard his mommy freaking out. now SHE seemed truly surprised, not kevin. IMO
christina differs here. i want to hear from her on this one. did she find her notes?
Is that recording on the 48 hours site?

[jonikay]

TO christina's defense, I heard the tape at the trial and even though I do believe that KJ is guilty, I would describe his voice to the 911 operator as "grace under pressure," not "calm, cool, and collected." (JMO) Mom, on the other hand, was absolutely hysterical. KJ was not on the phone long enough to give any real information. What you heard on 48 hours is probably his whole discussion with the 911 dispatcher. He only had the phone for a few seconds.

[guppie]

Is that recording on the 48 hours site?

you mean you didn't DVR it?! ha
that call is just chilling...how calm he is. how he says his own name. i shudder when i hear it. like i said on here quite a few times. i am basing my opinions about on KJ and his own words, actions, etc.
to me, he incriminates himself. no one else need say a thing.
umm, not sure about video on the website. u will have to chk. get back to me. ok

[guppie]

TO christina's defense, I heard the tape at the trial and even though I do believe that KJ is guilty, I would describe his voice to the 911 operator as "grace under pressure," not "calm, cool, and collected." (JMO) Mom, on the other hand, was absolutely hysterical. KJ was not on the phone long enough to give any real information. What you heard on 48 hours is probably his whole discussion with the 911 dispatcher. He only had the phone for a few seconds.

i don't know KJ. maybe he is an unusually passive and calm person in all situations. but it was something about the way he enunciates and shows no emotion that got me. clearly just a matter of opinion. i appreciate christina because she brings a different perspective. i am only saying it was "off" to me. these are opinions in this discussion, not facts. opinions are good as long as we don't try to pretend they are facts.

[CSOKC]

you mean you didn't DVR it?! ha
that call is just chilling...how calm he is. how he says his own name. i shudder when i hear it. like i said on here quite a few times. i am basing my opinions about on KJ and his own words, actions, etc.
to me, he incriminates himself. no one else need say a thing.
umm, not sure about video on the website. u will have to chk. get back to me. ok
I looked on the site and all that I can find is the interrogation video. Even in that video he seems strange to me. I know that my mind makes everything he does seem guilty though. Like when he says something like, "I used to have 100% confidence that you guys would find whoever did this, and now I don't." It just makes me think even more that he planted the condom wrapper and thought that they would automatically assume that person was the killer.

[guppie]

TO christina's defense, I heard the tape at the trial and even though I do believe that KJ is guilty, I would describe his voice to the 911 operator as "grace under pressure," not "calm, cool, and collected." (JMO) Mom, on the other hand, was absolutely hysterical. KJ was not on the phone long enough to give any real information. What you heard on 48 hours is probably his whole discussion with the 911 dispatcher. He only had the phone for a few seconds.

one more thing, if he exhibited "grace under pressure" why wasn't he sitting back away from the body after he flipped her over and could tell she was dead already?
he clearly said to the operator he thought she was dead. then why lay on her, feel around the back of her head on the wound, and do whatever it was he did to get blood all over his face?

i would also love to hear christina's view on that. she must be working (and i am the loser at home that's not) so i will have to wait for her to respond later.

[lorettalockhorn]

Hey Guppie, did you know that you can click on a username and one of the options is to "find all posts by" username? You can also use the search function to search for particular keywords by a particular poster within a thread/forum. :seeya:

[guppie]

I looked on the site and all that I can find is the interrogation video. Even in that video he seems strange to me. I know that my mind makes everything he does seem guilty though. Like when he says something like, "I used to have 100% confidence that you guys would find whoever did this, and now I don't." It just makes me think even more that he planted the condom wrapper and thought that they would automatically assume that person was the killer.

you know, i used to support the death penalty until i was 30 yrs old when a 17 yr old student i taught gave a great debate on why not to support it. he changed my mind, and i have never supported it since! i realize that as humans we may put an innocent person to death. there are innocent people on death row right now, so i do my best to be pretty darn objective. but KJ sure seems OJ to me, and no one has convinced me otherwise yet.
i was so hoping when i first started writing on this blog that someone could convince me KJ didn't do it. however, no one seems to have anything worthwhile to say on that front. i have not been involved like most of you. i am the outsider.
so to all KJ supporters: convince me he is innocent! all you who have notes, and sat at the trial, and have known him for years and years, please tell me what convinces you he is. i don't want to become one-dimensional and anti-KJ. i like being the outsider.

[CSOKC]

you know, i used to support the death penalty until i was 30 yrs old when a 17 yr old student i taught gave a great debate on why not to support it. he changed my mind, and i have never supported it since! i realize that as humans we may put an innocent person to death. there are innocent people on death row right now, so i do my best to be pretty darn objective. but KJ sure seems OJ to me, and no one has convinced me otherwise yet.
i was so hoping when i first started writing on this blog that someone could convince me KJ didn't do it. however, no one seems to have anything worthwhile to say on that front. i have not been involved like most of you. i am the outsider.
so to all KJ supporters: convince me he is innocent! all you who have notes, and sat at the trial, and have known him for years and years, please tell me what convinces you he is. i don't want to become one-dimensional and anti-KJ. i like being the outsider.
I hoped for the same thing just so that I could feel that there eventually would be justice for Nona. But I never could get a response to make me feel like Kevin didn't do it.

[jonikay]

Oh guppie, you're misunderstanding me to the max. I never said that KJ "exhibited" grace under pressure. His voice sounded that way to me. I am not intending to portray this as fact, either. I do not think he sounded calm, cool, and collected, but he didn't sound like he was in a frenzy either. From the POV of someone who thinks he is guilty, he seems more calm than I would imagine, but not too laid back. Whether he did it or not, he had to have so many things running through his mind at the time the call was placed. And as far as my opinion on his actions are concerned, they are strange. He gave mega details during the interrogation viewed at the trial, down to the way her kittens acted while all of the emergency personnel were at the scene. Things like that, eery. Taken into that perspective, his reaction during the 911 call was not out of the "ordinary." His behavior during interrogation (the small part viewed at trial and on 48 hours) was much more suspect, IMO.

[lorettalockhorn]

you know, i used to support the death penalty until i was 30 yrs old when a 17 yr old student i taught gave a great debate on why not to support it. he changed my mind, and i have never supported it since! i realize that as humans we may put an innocent person to death. there are innocent people on death row right now, so i do my best to be pretty darn objective. but KJ sure seems OJ to me, and no one has convinced me otherwise yet.
i was so hoping when i first started writing on this blog that someone could convince me KJ didn't do it. however, no one seems to have anything worthwhile to say on that front. i have not been involved like most of you. i am the outsider.
so to all KJ supporters: convince me he is innocent! all you who have notes, and sat at the trial, and have known him for years and years, please tell me what convinces you he is. i don't want to become one-dimensional and anti-KJ. i like being the outsider.

I wish that the jury hadn't been converted to a not guilty verdict so quickly; they were not unanimous at first and didn't actually deliberate that long IMO. How I wish they had hung. How I wish that the jury had been polled. That said, I can understand to some degree that maybe the State didn't prosecute beyond a reasonable doubt.

[CSOKC]

I wish that the jury hadn't been converted to a not guilty verdict so quickly; they were not unanimous at first and didn't actually deliberate that long IMO. How I wish they had hung. How I wish that the jury had been polled. That said, I can understand to some degree that maybe the State didn't prosecute beyond a reasonable doubt.
Sometimes I wonder if they would have convicted for a lesser charge. I think I remember reading that they asked if they could consider one, and they were told no. Is that correct?

[guppie]

Sometimes I wonder if they would have convicted for a lesser charge. I think I remember reading that they asked if they could consider one, and they were told no. Is that correct?


so glad you brought that up! i was wondering why they didn't include lesser charges of say manslaughter, for instance? correct me if i am wrong (and i may be), but wasn't only 1st deg murder listed? what did the DA explain about this? why not give the jury ALL options?

[lorettalockhorn]

Sometimes I wonder if they would have convicted for a lesser charge. I think I remember reading that they asked if they could consider one, and they were told no. Is that correct?

Judge Coker instructed that the jury couldn't consider lesser charges, but I believe that is the defense's option. Presumably they would refuse the option if they have utter faith in their client (and the jury too, I guess!). I believe there was a case a few years ago where the appellate or AR supreme court found that the judge was in error in not allowing the lesser charges consideration. Not sure where I read that, but most likely found it by googling.

[guppie]

Hey Guppie, did you know that you can click on a username and one of the options is to "find all posts by" username? You can also use the search function to search for particular keywords by a particular poster within a thread/forum. :seeya:

thank you for being my guide. i swear i am reading SO much. it's overwhelming. i am reading posts by you, fdinlaw, christina, susieq(banned), and others. it's A LOT to read! if i am not adding anything helpful, maybe i need to just read a while and not write. just tell me. you won't hurt my feelings! :)

i would like to know the reason the DA gave for not putting lesser options (such as manslaughter) for the jury. did they ever say?

[guppie]

thank you for being my guide. i swear i am reading SO much. it's overwhelming. i am reading posts by you, fdinlaw, christina, susieq (banned), and others. it's A LOT to read! if i am not adding anything helpful, maybe i need to just read a while and not write. just tell me. you won't hurt my feelings! :)

i would like to know the reason the DA gave for not putting lesser options (such as manslaughter) for the jury. did they ever say?


just saw your answer above! however, it still seems that the DA could have put the lesser charges on there from the get-go. hmmm better go check my AR state law!

[hawgustusgloop]

Been (w)racking my brain for the last few minutes wondering if I've ever seen an editorial actually signed by the editor or the members of the editorial staff. And I cannot remember ever.

I have been (w)racking my brain trying to figure out why the fact that that editorial was "unsigned" matters, and what Christina might have been trying to imply by mentioning that it was "unsigned." That its author was afraid/embarrassed/whatever to sign his or her name? I don't really get it.

What I do get, is how upset the Courier's editor(s) must be about the leak. After all, they have apparently been following the proper legal channels all along to gain access to the information, but their FOIA requests were repeatedly denied. Yet, 48 Hours ended up with a lot of the information first, presumably through other methods than a FOIA request. So, what's the lesson here, if you want the information, circumvent the legal system to get it?

[hawgustusgloop]

You're right. The only person who would've been able to testify to that in all its truth was KJ. RW is completely discounted in my opinion, given that he was named a hostile witness.

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't RW actually admit he was testifying to help Kevin, which is what got him declared a hostile witness?

[guppie]

I have been (w)racking my brain trying to figure out why the fact that that editorial was "unsigned" matters, and what Christina might have been trying to imply by mentioning that it was "unsigned." That its author was afraid/embarrassed/whatever to sign his or her name? I don't really get it.

What I do get, is how upset the Courier's editor(s) must be about the leak. After all, they have apparently been following the proper legal channels all along to gain access to the information, but their FOIA requests were repeatedly denied. Yet, 48 Hours ended up with a lot of the information first, presumably through other methods than a FOIA request. So, what's the lesson here, if you want the information, circumvent the legal system to get it?


CBS has the money to pay people a hefty sum to get that info...could it be that the info was bought and paid for? just a thought. i mean, i am sure that the person who handed over that info is Christian and all, but hello world, Christians do commit sins. (that was for the dumb*** juror!)

just another meaning to the phrase "you get what you pay for!" ha

[guppie]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't RW actually admit he was testifying to help Kevin, which is what got him declared a hostile witness?

well, at least that is what it said in "witness summaries" in the Courier.

[lorettalockhorn]

I have been (w)racking my brain trying to figure out why the fact that that editorial was "unsigned" matters, and what Christina might have been trying to imply by mentioning that it was "unsigned." That its author was afraid/embarrassed/whatever to sign his or her name? I don't really get it.

What I do get, is how upset the Courier's editor(s) must be about the leak. After all, they have apparently been following the proper legal channels all along to gain access to the information, but their FOIA requests were repeatedly denied. Yet, 48 Hours ended up with a lot of the information first, presumably through other methods than a FOIA request. So, what's the lesson here, if you want the information, circumvent the legal system to get it?

Yeah, I'm a little puzzled about why anyone should expect the editorial staff of a newspaper to sign off on its daily opinion. From what I remember from journalism courses, the oped is the official stance of the paper. Syndicated opinions are bylined.

Amen to that second paragraph. One might even wonder, in light of what may be considered Robbins' not so subtle anguish about the Jones' financial woes, if they might have more to gain by leaking the information than just shoring up KJ's reputation at the eleventh hour. Maybe the defense didn't leak the info, maybe it was leaked to a third party to leak.

[upallnight]

I had heard rumors of this before, but then I remembered that "tremendous" force was used to swing the lamp. I just don't think that a girl could have done that.

Oh, I did not mean I had heard that, just was saying another maybe could have happened. Sorry, I did not mean to imply that. Meaning just maybe a girl could have attacked Nona not only a guy. Just was trying to look at every angle. But you are right. That lamp was said to have hit her with alot of force. I don't know, still seems to still point to KJ until further notice as far as I am concerned.
shrug: :shrug:

[hawgustusgloop]

I reviewed the 48 Hours show last night, and I made a couple of observations:

First, you know that really creepy evidence photo of Kevin with blood on his face, where he's holding his bangs up with his hand? I noticed that he had blood ALL OVER his face. It seems like it would be hard to get blood in all those places, even if Nona's mouth wasn't impossible to open and he did try to resuscitate her. It looks like he would have really had to try to get the blood all over his face like that. It was everywhere!

The second thing I noticed involves the exhaustively discussed "tacky" palm print on the light bulb. It appeared that the blood that the print was made in was just a thin layer. It also appeared that the surface of the lightbulb had a really smooth, glossy kind of finish. I am wondering if the apparent thinness of the blood print combined with the apparent glossiness of the underlying bulb surface had anything to do with the fact that it was described as having the appearance of "tacky." It would certainly go along with the idea that the print appeared the same way 5 days later.

[jonikay]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't RW actually admit he was testifying to help Kevin, which is what got him declared a hostile witness?
You're right.

[upallnight]

I wish that the jury hadn't been converted to a not guilty verdict so quickly; they were not unanimous at first and didn't actually deliberate that long IMO. How I wish they had hung. How I wish that the jury had been polled. That said, I can understand to some degree that maybe the State didn't prosecute beyond a reasonable doubt.

That seems to be the view of a bunch of others that I know, seems sad being a murder trial. You would think they would give it more time. I really do not think they asked that many questions. Still think the tacky word was took by the jury as the main reason for beyond reasonable doubt and not to convict. I really do not agree that this jury was able to look at the key issues/evidence like they should have done and was swore under oath to do so. That tacky word would have been a flag for me to argue with fellow juriors if tacky upon discover, tacky 5 days later, that does not mean wet at all, it means the appearance was the same when viewed 5 days later which leads me to believe his interp. on the appearance of the blood print was tacky upon discovery******same app. 5 days later = dry. With that evidence combined with the rest, I would have NEVER have voted NOT GUILTY. His attorney's could have appealed his conviction. I do think there was enough evidence. It was all the way the jury viewed in from the arguement of KJ's attorney's. KJ's attorney's knew how to use Bacon's interp. of the tacky print to KJ's advantage. So the jury bought into it and it put reasonable doubt in some minds of the jury. I still think it was sorry for them allow testimony of Nona's relationships etc., IN DETAIL on some testimonies, but did not throw any of KJ's crap into there. He was the one on trial not her. I will believe this new evidence in the news if it is strong, but for now I believe it is a crock of crap! Maybe the state did not prosecute beyond r/d. But I still believe the jury had a HUGH responsibility to listen/look/debate, etc., all the evidence. I do think they failed on that part. I do not believe they gave it enough time to consider everything. This because the jury has the ultimate decision on guilty/not guilty. I would be as concerned about putting someone that was arrested for MURDER back on the street as much as I would be not convicting if there is r/d. Both is equally important. Both deserves attention to detail/evidence. Well, I guess you can see I don't think the jury took the time needed to look at all the evidence and discuss it as I think should have been done. Not saying they would have voted Guilty, I just think there was alot to consider and to fast with the verdict.

[guppie]

I reviewed the 48 Hours show last night, and I made a couple of observations:

First, you know that really creepy evidence photo of Kevin with blood on his face, where he's holding his bangs up with his hand? I noticed that he had blood ALL OVER his face. It seems like it would be hard to get blood in all those places, even if Nona's mouth wasn't impossible to open and he did try to resuscitate her. It looks like he would have really had to try to get the blood all over his face like that. It was everywhere!

The second thing I noticed involves the exhaustively discussed "tacky" palm print on the light bulb. It appeared that the blood that the print was made in was just a thin layer. It also appeared that the surface of the lightbulb had a really smooth, glossy kind of finish. I am wondering if the apparent thinness of the blood print combined with the apparent glossiness of the underlying bulb surface had anything to do with the fact that it was described as having the appearance of "tacky." It would certainly go along with the idea that the print appeared the same way 5 days later.

1) yeah, which is why he would have needed to reach around to where the wound was...too get more blood to put on himself to cover what was already there (IF he did it).
2) i wondered about that bulb surface. it seems to me that a glossy bulb might make blood "appear" tacky even if it was dry.
well, and i am also logical enough to figure out that OJ's gloves probably shrank (shrunk?) after drying too!

i guess juries just don't think that way!

[guppie]

I reviewed the 48 Hours show last night, and I made a couple of observations:

First, you know that really creepy evidence photo of Kevin with blood on his face, where he's holding his bangs up with his hand? I noticed that he had blood ALL OVER his face. It seems like it would be hard to get blood in all those places, even if Nona's mouth wasn't impossible to open and he did try to resuscitate her. It looks like he would have really had to try to get the blood all over his face like that. It was everywhere!

The second thing I noticed involves the exhaustively discussed "tacky" palm print on the light bulb. It appeared that the blood that the print was made in was just a thin layer. It also appeared that the surface of the lightbulb had a really smooth, glossy kind of finish. I am wondering if the apparent thinness of the blood print combined with the apparent glossiness of the underlying bulb surface had anything to do with the fact that it was described as having the appearance of "tacky." It would certainly go along with the idea that the print appeared the same way 5 days later.

that was such a thin coat of blood that the shine from the glossy bulb could have been showing through and made it look tacky (esp if the investigators were using flashlights to view it).
well, as the saying goes, appearance shouldn't matter.
don't these jurors know that in this century the most UNRELIABLE testimony is EYE witness testimony. why the heck would they put so much emphasis on what a bloody print "looked like" to the human eye?
forensics, people!
the blood on the bulb was not clotted like the blood on KJ hands.

quote from witness summary in the Courier:
"BEVEL testified earlier in the morning it was his opinion that Jones placed a bloody palm print on the light bulb of a floor lamp, alleged to be the murder weapon, at the time of the killing. He based his opinion on the lack of blood clots in the print, which to him indicated the blood was fresh when the print was made."

[ifIwereU]

From what I can tell it doesn't seem like the jury really thought about much at all. Especially not anything other than what was clearly presented to them, and even most of that they seemed to ignore. Of course he would have known she was dead when he flipped her over! And I completely agree with Loretta about the bloody hand thing...just creepy.

One specfic thing that I recall he said during his statement is that he tried to pick her up...he followed that up by saying I don't know where I was going to take her, but she was too stiff and he coudn't lift her.

I can't figure out the significance (for him) to maintain she was face up when he arrived. In his first statement he always referrs to her in that position. What is the benefit for him to continually say that....

[ifIwereU]

Judge Coker instructed that the jury couldn't consider lesser charges, but I believe that is the defense's option. Presumably they would refuse the option if they have utter faith in their client (and the jury too, I guess!). I believe there was a case a few years ago where the appellate or AR supreme court found that the judge was in error in not allowing the lesser charges consideration. Not sure where I read that, but most likely found it by googling.

I think your talking about the Robery Wyles case....killed his wife and buried her in the back yard...happened in Dover in 2002 or 2003....anyway he was originally convicted of 1st degree (I think he got 40 to life) anyway he was granted a new trial and was subsequently re-tried...he was then convicted of 2nd degree and received 20 years (I think) all because the judge did not tell the jury they could consider a lesser charge.

[ifIwereU]

TO christina's defense, I heard the tape at the trial and even though I do believe that KJ is guilty, I would describe his voice to the 911 operator as "grace under pressure," not "calm, cool, and collected." (JMO) Mom, on the other hand, was absolutely hysterical. KJ was not on the phone long enough to give any real information. What you heard on 48 hours is probably his whole discussion with the 911 dispatcher. He only had the phone for a few seconds.

my recollection of the 911 call was that he spoke for a minute or two and the dispatcher told him to stay on the phone that help would be there soon and he said (paraphrasing) here, talk to my mom...and the dispatcher told him that help was coming and not to leave and he said "i'll be here" then he gave the phone back to his mother...now that doesn't sound sinister on its face, but hearing the way he said it was like he waiting on a pizza delivery.

I sometimes think that maybe I am just twisting the evidence to fit my theory of the case....but when I evaluate these things in terms of stranger rapists or an acquaintance murder...I can't make it add up....