Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[FDInLaw]

Does anybody know how to get this avatar thingy to work?

Looks like you figured it out! :)

[Fancily Lurking]

I generally agree with your whole post I snipped from, although I am not 100% convinced about the part I bolded above. I don't know if we'll ever know the whole story behind that relationship, and I think history has shown that Nona was sadly very good at concealing any abuse she may have been suffering.

Do you really think she was hiding abuse from Jones, as weenie-ish as he was?

[hawgustusgloop]

Do you really think she was hiding abuse from Jones, as weenie-ish as he was?

I couldn't say for sure, of course, but I think it is quite possible that there were incidents of violence in that relationship. If there were, I could see Nona possibly hiding it due to the patterns of abuse in her past. I could also see her being unfortunately very good at hiding any type of abuse. I don't think being "weenie-ish" decreases a person's capability for domestic abuse.

[FDInLaw]

Do you really think she was hiding abuse from Jones, as weenie-ish as he was?
"Weenie-ish"??? I've never heard Kevin described like this before lol. He's not a big kid but he is somewhat muscular.

[FDInLaw]

Thanks. Interesting case. Looks like this site has been here a while.
You just found us? What sparked your interest?

[hawgustusgloop]

"Weenie-ish"??? I've never heard Kevin described like this before lol. He's not a big kid but he is somewhat muscular.

I haven't either. Besides, wasn't he some kind of athlete back in his prime at Dover High?

[lorettalockhorn]

Is it a big surprise that I disagree with Leroy's idea that KJ's history didn't matter? IMO a fatal flaw in the prosecution was that since the jury didn't know that Kevin is a boozing, doping, sexual voyeur and philanderer, Nona was put on trial and his motive for murder was obscured. The jury wasn't presented with the information that they needed to assess Kevin, and Nona was shown in an unbalanced and unfavorable light.

Gibbons blew it. http://www.alteredperception.net/archives/JackAss.jpg

[hawgustusgloop]

Is it a big surprise that I disagree with Leroy's idea that KJ's history didn't matter? IMO a fatal flaw in the prosecution was that since the jury didn't know that Kevin is a boozing, doping, sexual voyeur and philanderer, Nona was put on trial and his motive for murder was obscured. The jury wasn't presented with the information that they needed to assess Kevin, and Nona was shown in an unbalanced and unfavorable light.

Gibbons blew it. http://www.alteredperception.net/archives/JackAss.jpg

I do think that FOR SURE the prosecution should have been able to call as witnesses the girls K.Jo had cheated on Nona with, especially the one right before her murder. I think that it would have been important for the jury to see not only that he lied in his taped interrogation, but also to what extent he was lying about his and Nona's relationship. I think that girl should have been asked if K.Jo mentioned he had a "very, very exclusive" girlfriend at the time and if so, what he told this girl about Nona.

Did the prosecution try to have these young ladies testify, but the judge didn't allow it? Did Gibbons just decide not to call them to testify? Or, as some have suggested on this forum, was some kind of deal made between the defense and prosecution for Gibbons NOT to call K.Jo's girls and for the defense not to call some possible boyfriends of Nona's in exchange?

[lorettalockhorn]

My bad, I left lying out of my diatribe! :punch:

My understanding is that both the State and the defense agreed not to call any sexual partners of Nona and Kevin (after* JH had already testified that he had spent the night and had had sex with Nona in her apartment). I believe that the judge's comment was that the kids were having a lot of sex, or something along those lines.

The jury should have been able to see that KJ is a liar from the interview tapes, but it went over their heads apparently. Who knows if it would have made a difference if they had heard direct testimony to prove to what degree a liar he is (not to mention a doper). Even his grandmother swore to statement(s) different from what he told LE with regard to the alibi and times. I think at this point, I would feel that my tax dollars were harder at work if Gibbons hadn't pussyfooted around with allowing Kevin's shallow character to be exposed.

*Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[lorettalockhorn]

Johnson made the statement about these kids having sex a lot:

The defense, led by Kenneth Johnson, presented an alternate version of events during their opening statement, responding specifically to many of Gibbons’ assertions.
Johnson acknowledged infidelities on the parts of both DIRKSMEYER and Jones, saying they are members of a “different generation” and today’s “young people think differently.”
“These kids had sex a lot,” he said. “That’s not a reason to kill.”


http://couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15334&Search=dirksmeyer

Article from Southwest Times Record:

http://www.swtimes.com/articles/2007/07/12/news/news11.txt

[hawgustusgloop]

Johnson made the statement about these kids having sex a lot:

The defense, led by Kenneth Johnson, presented an alternate version of events during their opening statement, responding specifically to many of Gibbons’ assertions.
Johnson acknowledged infidelities on the parts of both DIRKSMEYER and Jones, saying they are members of a “different generation” and today’s “young people think differently.”
“These kids had sex a lot,” he said. “That’s not a reason to kill.”


http://couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15334&Search=dirksmeyer

Article from Southwest Times Record:

http://www.swtimes.com/articles/2007/07/12/news/news11.txt

Yes, I remember that now. I know I have no idea what all of those witnesses would have said or the implications in the eyes of the jury, but I think Gibbons should have put K.Jo's girls on the stand. I also remember some courtroom accounts that said some comments were made about K.Jo's promiscuity and Kamp K.Jo had a good laugh about it. Made me sick. Perhaps a double standard was at work.

[lorettalockhorn]

Jonikay's account of what apparently titillated the defense:

As far as the girl that was to testify to the sex that Patterson wouldn't allow after defense objected. I was there. This was not the girl that he claims he had sex with a week before the murder. This girl was to testify that she had sex with him before that, thus making it 2 other people that he has been with. Kevin stated during the interrogation that he had only cheated on Nona one time. The prosecutors argued it, stating that this proves to the jury that he lied about his relationship with Nona and solidifies the statement that RW made about knowing about "times" he has been with other girls. Patterson said that "all this proves is he had sex." At which point, Jones' side of the courtroom felt it appropriate to laugh. The prosecution fought this one, but said that they would save her for "rebuttal." I assume she'll be called back. Another win for the defense on this one.

Obviously, the girl wasn't called for rebuttal. Wonder why not.

[lorettalockhorn]

Ironically there is an article in today's Courier (about RPD detectives) that features a photograph of David Davis demonstrating the proper technique for dusting for fingerprints while holding an object (coffee mug) object with bare hands.

Isn't this exactly what happened to evidence re: Nona's cell phone? It was touched by any number of ungloved people at the scene of the murder and was deemed unusable, since no one had the cajones to man up and admit moving it from the floor? And Bacon didn't ascertain the offender by comparing any fingerprints to his officers whose fingerprints are certainly on file???

The seven officers profiled in this article have a combined total of some 10,913 hours of training. meh

[lorettalockhorn]

Oh, we have two newbs! :seeya:

Scenarios? (I wasn't in the courtroom, guess I missed them?)

What was amazing to me, was that the jury didn't see that Kevin is a philandering liar who had a powerful motive to kill Nona and that the only time that he didn't have an alibi was exactly when she was killed.

[FDInLaw]

You know the saying... No guts, no glory. Perhaps Gibbons' wasn't as sure of the case as portrayed. There were a lot of "what ifs..." and the defense was amazing at throwing those scenarios out there.... :shrug:
WELCOME! :seeya:

IMO Gibbons could have done more and his strategy was poor. For one, he did not establish motive in a very convincing matter which left the jury wondering why Kevin would have even Kill Nona. IIRC the possessive way Kevin treated Nona, and the FACT that he knew about her other relationships was not presented thoroughly.

Maybe I am being to hard on Gibbons. The bloody palm print was key and he had no choice but to spend a lot of time on it. Seems to me that all the defense had to do was SUGGEST doubt and the jury believed them. Of course the defense suggested doubt (that's their job), but were they able to prove it? Were their arguments logical? Were their expert witnesses more creditable? It didn't seem to me that the jury even considered these questions.

The Grandma story kills me. . . she looked like a Christian lady (she may well be one with memory loss issues for all I know) but no matter what she looked like her convenient snippet of the story was not told until the trial. Why wasn't it mentioned before? Red flag folks! You would think it would have been brought forward BEFORE the arrest!

(My eyes keep rolling back in my head. . . I better stop before they stick!) :cool:

[Leroy L]

I can see KJ's dirty laundry being brought up to try and illustrate his lies. I can also see some of that effort being non-productive. For example, Prosection: "Mr. Jones, how can you reconcile that you said you were very, very exclusive with Miss Dirksmeyer and yet we have other women testifying to intimate relations with you?" KJ's (imagined) reply, "Oh, I meant that we were very, very EMOTIONALLY exclusive." Prosection: "Oh, no further questions."

If there was testimony about drugs, drinking, etc., I think the defense would have strongly objected. Still have a hard time seeing the relevance for many of his "misdeeds". If I was a juror, I'd be thinking "Okay, how is this connected to the crime at hand?" A drinker, doper, philanderer does not a killer make. (Although they obviously can be one and the same.) Clearly, some have strongly differing opinions about this and I respect them (for what that's worth!).

[FDInLaw]

I can see KJ's dirty laundry being brought up to try and illustrate his lies. I can also see some of that effort being non-productive. For example, Prosection: "Mr. Jones, how can you reconcile that you said you were very, very exclusive with Miss Dirksmeyer and yet we have other women testifying to intimate relations with you?" KJ's (imagined) reply, "Oh, I meant that we were very, very EMOTIONALLY exclusive." Prosection: "Oh, no further questions."

If there was testimony about drugs, drinking, etc., I think the defense would have strongly objected. Still have a hard time seeing the relevance for many of his "misdeeds". If I was a juror, I'd be thinking "Okay, how is this connected to the crime at hand?" A drinker, doper, philanderer does not a killer make. (Although they obviously can be one and the same.) Clearly, some have strongly differing opinions about this and I respect them (for what that's worth!). If Kevin was merely a pothead I would see your point. . . there would be no reason to bring it up.

[CSOKC]

I can see KJ's dirty laundry being brought up to try and illustrate his lies. I can also see some of that effort being non-productive. For example, Prosection: "Mr. Jones, how can you reconcile that you said you were very, very exclusive with Miss Dirksmeyer and yet we have other women testifying to intimate relations with you?" KJ's (imagined) reply, "Oh, I meant that we were very, very EMOTIONALLY exclusive." Prosection: "Oh, no further questions."

If there was testimony about drugs, drinking, etc., I think the defense would have strongly objected. Still have a hard time seeing the relevance for many of his "misdeeds". If I was a juror, I'd be thinking "Okay, how is this connected to the crime at hand?" A drinker, doper, philanderer does not a killer make. (Although they obviously can be one and the same.) Clearly, some have strongly differing opinions about this and I respect them (for what that's worth!).
I disagree. I think that it was very relevant. It is easier to believe that a clean-cut Christian boy could never have killed someone than it is to believe that a "drinker, doper, philanderer" could never have killed someone. Therefore, IMO, it would have definitely been very helpful to the prosecutions case to be able to present the real KJ, rather than the good ole' boy version that was presented by the defense.

[lorettalockhorn]

To me, it goes to character. That he has a total disregard and respect for the law combined with a motive for murder would have made me see him in a different light. Simple as that.

I've heard that KJ and RW are into some serious drugs (and if you believe that the victim of the alleged rape was drugged, that makes sense to a degree). I suppose that the jury walked away from this trial with no qualms whatsoever since it didn't occur in their back yard and KJ doesn't live in their community or socialize with their daughters and sons, etc. (Of course, there is the exception of the male nurse juror whose niece is rumored to be close friends with RW; he's probably certain that she would never actually party with that crowd.)

[FDInLaw]

I can see KJ's dirty laundry being brought up to try and illustrate his lies. I can also see some of that effort being non-productive. For example, Prosection: "Mr. Jones, how can you reconcile that you said you were very, very exclusive with Miss Dirksmeyer and yet we have other women testifying to intimate relations with you?" KJ's (imagined) reply, "Oh, I meant that we were very, very EMOTIONALLY exclusive." Prosection: "Oh, no further questions."

If there was testimony about drugs, drinking, etc., I think the defense would have strongly objected. Still have a hard time seeing the relevance for many of his "misdeeds". If I was a juror, I'd be thinking "Okay, how is this connected to the crime at hand?" A drinker, doper, philanderer does not a killer make. (Although they obviously can be one and the same.) Clearly, some have strongly differing opinions about this and I respect them (for what that's worth!).

I disagree. I think that it was very relevant. It is easier to believe that a clean-cut Christian boy could never have killed someone than it is to believe that a "drinker, doper, philanderer" could never have killed someone. Therefore, IMO, it would have definitely been very helpful to the prosecutions case to be able to present the real KJ, rather than the good ole' boy version that was presented by the defense.

I agree and disagree with both of you (if that's possible lol!). Pot is a suppressant and renders someone harmless for the most part. Alcohol's affects seem to differ from person to person in my experience. As a juror, as Leroy suggested, I would have been thinking "who cares?" if Kevin was presented as a pothead. What concerns me personally is the other drugs it is rumored that Kevin abuses. For instance, if Kevin takes cocaine I think the jury should have heard about it. Cocaine abuse is not "harmless" and it should be viewed as a relevant factor IMO.

[ifIwereU]

comin to the "defense" of the prosecution....the judge would not allow the testimony of the girls kevin slept with....in his statement he admits to sleeping with one...the drug usage was another example not allowed in by the judge....other testimony not allowed was that of a RPD detective who was going to testify about Kevin apologizing for contaminating the scene...WHO DOES THAT? other stuff not admitted by the judge an enhanced version of KJ'S statement where he supoosedly says I'm sorry

believe it not folks it happens in courthouses all across Amercia where a judge determines whats relavent and what isn't...

the only way drugs would have been discussed if the PA would have been able to establish that drugs played a role or contributed to Nona's death. Had there been a crack pipe in the room or had jones' alibi been I smoked dope and blacked out and I cant remember where I was....then the circumstances might have been different. I agree with Leroy....there are thousands of people (good and bad) out there that smoke dope and do drugs that don't commit murders. Revelant information would have been if Jones had ever hit her in the past or beat her up in the past...that would have been relevant....not sure if the PA had any of that kind information. Was he seceptable to fits of rage or uncontrollable anger. JMO....

[CSOKC]

comin to the "defense" of the prosecution....the judge would not allow the testimony of the girls kevin slept with....in his statement he admits to sleeping with one...the drug usage was another example not allowed in by the judge....other testimony not allowed was that of a RPD detective who was going to testify about Kevin apologizing for contaminating the scene...WHO DOES THAT? other stuff not admitted by the judge an enhanced version of KJ'S statement where he supoosedly says I'm sorry

believe it not folks it happens in courthouses all across Amercia where a judge determines whats relavent and what isn't...



I definitely do not fault the prosecution for not being able to present the true side of KJ. I think that all falls on the judge.

[Leroy L]

I disagree. I think that it was very relevant. It is easier to believe that a clean-cut Christian boy could never have killed someone than it is to believe that a "drinker, doper, philanderer" could never have killed someone. Therefore, IMO, it would have definitely been very helpful to the prosecutions case to be able to present the real KJ, rather than the good ole' boy version that was presented by the defense.

Oh goodness.
Does this remind anyone of the juror saying that the sweet grandma would never lie for her grandson becuase she was a Christian woman?

Ye shall know them by their deeds.

[CSOKC]

Oh goodness.
Does this remind anyone of the juror saying that the sweet grandma would never lie for her grandson becuase she was a Christian woman?

Ye shall know them by their deeds.
Exactly, that's what made me think of that. I remember reading all of the things that one juror woman said. I think that probably at least had a little to do with her decision.

[CSOKC]

Oh goodness.
Does this remind anyone of the juror saying that the sweet grandma would never lie for her grandson becuase she was a Christian woman?

Ye shall know them by their deeds.
Oh, also, I totally believe that the grandma would have lied. I don't think she would have liked seeing her grandson go to jail. I think she for sure lied to prevent that, Christian or not.

[lorettalockhorn]

comin to the "defense" of the prosecution....the judge would not allow the testimony of the girls kevin slept with....in his statement he admits to sleeping with one...the drug usage was another example not allowed in by the judge....other testimony not allowed was that of a RPD detective who was going to testify about Kevin apologizing for contaminating the scene...WHO DOES THAT? other stuff not admitted by the judge an enhanced version of KJ'S statement where he supoosedly says I'm sorry

believe it not folks it happens in courthouses all across Amercia where a judge determines whats relavent and what isn't...

the only way drugs would have been discussed if the PA would have been able to establish that drugs played a role or contributed to Nona's death. Had there been a crack pipe in the room or had jones' alibi been I smoked dope and blacked out and I cant remember where I was....then the circumstances might have been different. I agree with Leroy....there are thousands of people (good and bad) out there that smoke dope and do drugs that don't commit murders. Revelant information would have been if Jones had ever hit her in the past or beat her up in the past...that would have been relevant....not sure if the PA had any of that kind information. Was he seceptable to fits of rage or uncontrollable anger. JMO....

Oh, I believe you. And I cannot imagine (or remember) what case law the judge cited for declaring the drug use to be irrelevant.

But I also don't know a single doper who only breaks one law. And I don't think that KJ only smokes dope and I don't think that marijuana is a harmless drug. There are too many factors, including what kind it is and what it may be tainted with among others. There is also the information that Kevin takes (took) Adderall which may have effected his behavior.

I also believe that Grandmother Jones lied; for one her account was different from KJ's and for another she apparently never came forward during the investigation. Or maybe she did. Even with her eleventh hour alibi, he still had time to murder Nona.

[hawgustusgloop]

Oh, I believe you. And I cannot imagine (or remember) what case law the judge cited for declaring the drug use to be irrelevant.

But I also don't know a single doper who only breaks one law. And I don't think that KJ only smokes dope and I don't think that marijuana is a harmless drug. There are too many factors, including what kind it is and what it may be tainted with among others. There is also the information that Kevin takes (took) Adderall which may have effected his behavior.

I also believe that Grandmother Jones lied; for one her account was different from KJ's and for another she apparently never came forward during the investigation. Or maybe she did. Even with her eleventh hour alibi, he still had time to murder Nona.

I think Granny Jones lied for sure. I also think Al Frazier was encouraged to fudge the time a little in the same way to narrow K.Jo's window of opportunity. Why were their stories inconsistent with previous statements? Even if they were telling the truth (BIG "if" IMO), he still had time.

[lorettalockhorn]

But, is he merely a pothead or any other kind of doper for that matter? Does an occasional or once or twice use of adderall make a person a doper??


Unless he has a prescription for an illegal drug and/or only takes a prescribed drug as directed, yes. Emphatically, yes. Somehow I doubt that he has a prescription for weed. Who really knows if he abuses adderall and what the effects might be since it wasn't explored? Just see a potential. And combine that with his notorious alcohol use/abuse and the rumors or hard drug use and I can really see potential for deadly behavior.

[lorettalockhorn]

Well, I am not excusing or condoning any kind of drug use, but I think character is an opinion and upholding it falls to each individual's background and upbringing.

I cannot right offhand think of a single person whose opinion I value who thinks that lying or breaking the law is a characteristic of good character.

[CSOKC]

I cannot right offhand think of a single person whose opinion I value who thinks that lying or breaking the law is a characteristic of good character.
I second that. I for sure don't.

[ifIwereU]

Unless he has a prescription for an illegal drug and/or only takes a prescribed drug as directed, yes. Emphatically, yes. Somehow I doubt that he has a prescription for weed. Who really knows if he abuses adderall and what the effects might be since it wasn't explored? Just see a potential. And combine that with his notorious alcohol use/abuse and the rumors or hard drug use and I can really see potential for deadly behavior.

I know lots of people addicted to "prescribed" medications.....as well

those who go see a doctor because he hands out pain meds like candy....not indicative of good character either....but not illegal.

There was an incident at the police department on the night of the visitaion where KJ'S dad throws a chair that damages the wall at the PD....."like father like son" right....should the PA have been able to introduce atributes like these that are "likely" handed down...the bottom like when dealing with courtroom issues....the word "prejudical" gets thrown around only in favor of the defense.....

take for instance a child molestor where he has been accused of molesting two other chlidren in the past but never charged because of insufficient evidence (or victim won't corporate).....he is finally arrested after a third time and it goes to court...the first two cases are not admissible.....that's our justice system....just ask Michael Jackson

[FDInLaw]

But, is he merely a pothead or any other kind of doper for that matter? Does an occasional or once or twice use of adderall make a person a doper?? Do you know Kevin Jones personally?

[FDInLaw]

I know lots of people addicted to "prescribed" medications.....as well

those who go see a doctor because he hands out pain meds like candy....not indicative of good character either....but not illegal.

There was an incident at the police department on the night of the visitaion where KJ'S dad throws a chair that damages the wall at the PD....."like father like son" right....should the PA have been able to introduce atributes like these that are "likely" handed down...the bottom like when dealing with courtroom issues....the word "prejudical" gets thrown around only in favor of the defense.....

take for instance a child molestor where he has been accused of molesting two other chlidren in the past but never charged because of insufficient evidence (or victim won't corporate).....he is finally arrested after a third time and it goes to court...the first two cases are not admissible.....that's our justice system....just ask Michael Jackson
Sadly, it's no secret that our judicial system protects perpetrators and not victims.

[lorettalockhorn]

I know lots of people addicted to "prescribed" medications.....as well

those who go see a doctor because he hands out pain meds like candy....not indicative of good character either....but not illegal.

I guess it's a little OT and I don't mean to derail, but when a doctor enables a patient who is addicted to prescription meds, I hold him pretty much equally responsible for the problem. Not sure how "seeking" can be regulated or adjudicated.

[FDInLaw]

No. I do not.
When it becomes public, check out what Ryan Whiteside has to say about Kevin in the rape case deposition, this and Kevin's own admitted drug use should clear up any questions you have about how serious a user Kevin is.
:seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

I disagree with that. I don't think that would make a person a "doper". I think of a "doper" being defined as regular, consistent use. I think you would be surprised at the "regular, law abiding, upstanding" people who have done drugs a few times.

Long ago and far away, I was a caseworker. Very little if anything surprises me.

That is of those that you know whether or not they break the law.

IMO, it is not necessarily "of good character" either but it is a lot more than that, and I don't think some minor discrepancies or bad judgements or mistakes should make someone write a person off totally. We are all human and make mistakes. And, it also depends on the offense and the law broken. Driving 70 in a 55 is definitely breaking the law but is not going to make me write someone off as a loser. Morally and ethically, a whole overview is needed before I totally write someone off, not just one or two things, or even three.

Apparently the judge saw Kevin Jone's drug use obscure enouth to omit it from the trial. I do agree that the jury should have been allowed to decide for themselves; however, from the things that I have heard of the use, I do not think the verdict would change.

I'm a fairly good judge of character thanks to training and experience, and your policy is probably more lenient than mine is. With regard to minor discrepancies and bad judgements or mistakes as you call them, in my life that would apply to people who learn their lessons, make atonement, seek habilitation or rehabilitation, not those who thumb their noses at the law and persist in lawbreaking. I suppose that if my sister evolved into a crackwhore, I might change my tune, but only if she was willing to help herself. I didn't see KJ's involvement with the alleged rape (for instance) as being indicative of his desire to straighten up and fly right.

I'd be willing to bet that Kevin and his cronies have more going on than merely being players in a murder indictment.

[FDInLaw]

I'll be sure to do that. Thanks. Do you have first hand knowledge of what was said?
Several sources have informed me about it but I have not read it for myself yet. As such I'm not going to go into much detail here. . . I feel uncomfortable doing so until I've seen it for myself. I'm nobody's sock puppet. I doubt the Courier will report much about the rape case do to the lawsuit and the Dover Times certainly will not unless there is a victory of some sort for the Whitesides. . . guess it will be up to some well-meaning citizens to put pressure on other media outlets to report it. :biggrin: The moment any of you all get your hands on it please let me know! :hat:

[lorettalockhorn]

I consider myself an excellent judge of character as well. Had a couple jobs myself where I have heard many a things. Very little surprises me either. I think that is what makes me a little more lenient. I tend to realize that everyone makes their mistakes, and no one is perfect.

I don't tend to think a person needs to go to rehab for a couple or few instances of drug use. In that case, there would be a large percentage of the population in need of rehabilitation services. Who says he hasn't learned his lessons? The difference is you think he needs to learn a lesson for committing murder and voyeuring a "rape"....

I apologize if I took a miscue from your earlier posts, I honestly thought that you were saying that people who habitually break the law by using drugs without any sense of conscience deserve some measure or understanding.

I have plenty of empathy for all humankind, but lawbreakers and dopers are simply not a part of my life; nor do I regret that. But like I said, none of the people whose opinion I value have that mindset.

You don't think that he needs to learn a lesson from watching someone being drugged and raped or gangbanged (if that is what happened)? Or from watching someone have sex? I haven't talked to anyone who was okay with that behavior. I pity his parents and friends for his flagrant scofflaw actions. He and the likes of Whiteside and Simmons are aberrant in my book. And rather than laying low and turning over a new leaf, RW filed suit against The Courier for reporting what the community has a right to know and Simmons' family wrote a letter to the editor that made them look as lowlife as their son. An example of protesting too much, in my book.

[hawgustusgloop]

But, is he merely a pothead or any other kind of doper for that matter? Does an occasional or once or twice use of adderall make a person a doper??

Welcome to CL, Od L.A.W!:seeya:

I would guess that I am not the only person who has heard drug rumors about K.Jo that go WAY beyond being a pothead or using Adderall once or twice.

[nobody]

I guess I'm not really getting where we are going with the drug talk. Are we saying he is bad because he supposedly did drugs. Was he strung out that day? Was his own mother oblivious to any glassy eyed, slur, swerving text driving, did he show anxiety. Was this like the Chris Benoit murder case? What was the issue with drug accusations?

[FDInLaw]

I guess I'm not really getting where we are going with the drug talk. Are we saying he is bad because he supposedly did drugs. Was he strung out that day? Was his own mother oblivious to any glassy eyed, slur, swerving text driving, did he show anxiety. Was this like the Chris Benoit murder case? What was the issue with drug accusations?
Guess for me the real issue isn't that Kevin is breaking the law in other areas of his life. The point was made about speeding, and I have been an offender there myself. What concerns me, and what I feel should have been relevant, are the affects of drugs and long term usage. Once upon a dumber me, I dated a guy with substance abuse issues. It took me awhile to see but this guy was extremely manipulative, though stubborn myself it took me three attempts to finally succeed in breaking up. Beyond the manipulation, he was self-serving and showed absolutely no regard for the law or others. . . once I got to know him I was totally stunned by the level of selfishness. He really didn't care about anything but his next fix. Sadly, there was nothing I could do to convince him to get help. One day he just up and disappeared from the job we both worked at and I had no idea where he went or why.

There are young ones out there (especially in Dover) that feel Kevin must be innocent. . . they knew him in High School, etc. The problem I have is this. . . substance abuse changes people. Kevin may have been a caring individual four years ago but serious and prolonged drug abuse can change that. To say that it is impossible for Kevin to be responsible for Nona's death on merit of his upbringing alone is just plain naive. A person's upbringing alone does not determine their future or character. . . an individual must choose to embrace what they have been taught. Prolonged substance abuse alters a person's judgment and personality. . . it's a fact. Kevin's drug abuse is relevant in my mind because it helps establishes how he could be able to murder Nona and then go on with his day like nothing happened.

Nobody, I do believe that Kevin's Mother chooses to be oblivious. She has been told about Kevin's problems.

I feel like a broken record. . . this isn't the first post I've devoted to this topic. Sometimes my little mind grabs onto something and refuses to let go. Forgive me if I'm being way too stubborn here.

Nobody, do you have a new topic you would like to discuss?

[CSOKC]

There are young ones out there (especially in Dover) that feel Kevin must be innocent. . . they knew him in High School, etc.



I have a huge problem with that also. Who really thinks , 'oh I know that person, and they definitely would have murdered someone.' Not many. Or maybe I should say who knows a person really well and thinks that? Because yeah, I met Jared a few times and wondered about him as I said before, but I didn't know him well. I'm sure that anyone that did know him well would be saying that he couldn't have done it. (I'm not trying to bring him back up and say I think he did it, I know that he has been completely cleared.) Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is this, my husband was really good friends with a guy in school and just a year after they lost touch that same guy murdered an older man that he worked for. So you really can't just say 'oh I knew him, he would never' because sometimes, yeah, they would.

[lorettalockhorn]

I guess I'm not really getting where we are going with the drug talk. Are we saying he is bad because he supposedly did drugs. Was he strung out that day? Was his own mother oblivious to any glassy eyed, slur, swerving text driving, did he show anxiety. Was this like the Chris Benoit murder case? What was the issue with drug accusations?


Not sure about any parallels to the Benoit case, I've never heard that KJ does/did steroids. But I believe what some consider to be hype; that marijuana is a gateway drug. Also don't believe that you can compare speeding, which may only be a lapse in concentration or judgement, to continued use and purchase of an illegal drug. Speeding is a crime involving one person, illegal drug use requires the cooperation and conspiracy of many lawbreakers, it is carried out with surreptitious and furtive planning and harms the community. That said, I don't think Kevin just tokes a joint every now and then, I do believe that his drug use goes further. And I do believe that his drug use could well have contributed to the murder.

Guess I'm trying to say that the issue is two-pronged for me; KJ's drug use somewhat indicates a sense of entitlement and I also believe that he is an impaired individual.

[hawgustusgloop]

I guess I'm not really getting where we are going with the drug talk. Are we saying he is bad because he supposedly did drugs. Was he strung out that day? Was his own mother oblivious to any glassy eyed, slur, swerving text driving, did he show anxiety. Was this like the Chris Benoit murder case? What was the issue with drug accusations?

I don't think "we" are saying any one specific thing about his drug use. I think the discussion is more about debating whether or not his drug use should have been brought up in front of the jury. I don't have a strong opinion on that, just because I don't have enough info about the extent of his drug abuse at the time. I personally believe, though, that when a person starts regularly using drugs, even if that person is not physically addicted, that it can cause a change in his general outlook and behavior even when he is not directly under the influence. I also think that if he was regularly using drugs in Fayetteville and thought that being home with Mommy would hinder his ability to abuse drugs as much as before, perhaps that would have an effect on him and his frame of mind, too.

I do think his *alleged* drug and alcohol abuse, ESPECIALLY when he was out on bond while awaiting his murder trial, shows a complete disregard for the law. I also think the whole rape allegation thing, even if only the part admitted to by the accused (Simmons) is true, makes the K.Jo Krew (including your #2 suspect CH) all look really trashy.

[hawgustusgloop]

I am curious about Kevin's plans for the Christmas holiday. When he came home to his mother's house (after hanging out in town for a couple of days without telling her), how long did he plan to stay? Was he there for a few days? Was he going to stay until Christmas? Was he going to be there until the spring semester began at U of A? Was he living in a dorm that he had to be out of until school started back up, or was he living in an apartment? Does anyone know? I think I read something a long time ago that implied that he decided not to return to UA because of being so upset about Nona's death. I always found that interesting. Was the night K.Jo came back from Nona's after midnight the first his parents knew of him being in town, or did he come home earlier? Why was he avoiding his parents anyway?

[lorettalockhorn]

I've always wondered about the first part of that week too. We know that he saw Nona either Mon or Tues night and they had intercourse (according to the interview and the ME's testimony). Where was he staying and what was he doing before Wed/Thurs when he was at Nona's until all hours?

[Amy]

I know lots of people addicted to "prescribed" medications.....as well

those who go see a doctor because he hands out pain meds like candy....not indicative of good character either....but not illegal.

There was an incident at the police department on the night of the visitaion where KJ'S dad throws a chair that damages the wall at the PD....."like father like son" right....should the PA have been able to introduce atributes like these that are "likely" handed down...the bottom like when dealing with courtroom issues....the word "prejudical" gets thrown around only in favor of the defense.....

take for instance a child molestor where he has been accused of molesting two other chlidren in the past but never charged because of insufficient evidence (or victim won't corporate).....he is finally arrested after a third time and it goes to court...the first two cases are not admissible.....that's our justice system....just ask Michael Jackson

But, if some great-great-great-great grandfather commited suicide a couple of hundred years ago, the defense can sure bring THAT out, suggesting that the poor defendant had some inherited psychological condition that could have contributed to the murder---and therefore the poor defendant should get off. Of course, I never understood what an ancestor who committed SUICIDE had to do with a defendant committing MURDER---they aren't exactly the same type of crime.

I do have a problem with past crimes being suppressed--in a local case some years ago, a girl was murdered at the county fair. The person arrested DID have a background of the same type of crime in TX---but the jury wasn't allowed to know of that til after the trial. The jury did find him guilty, anyway.

[ifIwereU]

I consider myself an excellent judge of character as well. Had a couple jobs myself where I have heard many a things. Very little surprises me either. I think that is what makes me a little more lenient. I tend to realize that everyone makes their mistakes, and no one is perfect.

I don't tend to think a person needs to go to rehab for a couple or few instances of drug use. In that case, there would be a large percentage of the population in need of rehabilitation services. Who says he hasn't learned his lessons? The difference is you think he needs to learn a lesson for committing murder and voyeuring a "rape"....

this disturbs me!!

[ifIwereU]

I am curious about Kevin's plans for the Christmas holiday. When he came home to his mother's house (after hanging out in town for a couple of days without telling her), how long did he plan to stay? Was he there for a few days? Was he going to stay until Christmas? Was he going to be there until the spring semester began at U of A? Was he living in a dorm that he had to be out of until school started back up, or was he living in an apartment? Does anyone know? I think I read something a long time ago that implied that he decided not to return to UA because of being so upset about Nona's death. I always found that interesting. Was the night K.Jo came back from Nona's after midnight the first his parents knew of him being in town, or did he come home earlier? Why was he avoiding his parents anyway?



Jones shared an apartment in Fayetteville with Simmons. Came down Monday night and didn't tell his mom so he could stay the night with Nona. From listening to his statement he apparently helped out at the family gas station during the holidays....

IMO he decided not to return to the Uof A because he was being implicated in her death.

IMO Mom controlled his life and she would have been upset if she knew he came home and stayed the night with Nona.

[FDInLaw]

this disturbs me!!No kidding! Let's hope that whoever Odd L.A.W. is he/she was just experiencing a temporary lapse of reason.
:rolleyes:

[ifIwereU]

No kidding! Let's hope that whoever Odd L.A.W. is he/she was just experiencing a temporary lapse of reason.
:rolleyes:
JMO but I often wonder why people have to find justifications for other peoples outlandish behaviors. like how people say KJ was greiving and hysterical when finding Nona's body....or how they scrutinize the courier's reporting for telling the facts about the trial. People sending letters to the Courier making it seem like the courier was manufacturing the idea that KJ was a bad person.... or how "a little drug use" is supposed to be fine since most everyone does it...whatever....I don't do it, none of my friends do drugs... I've never felt the need to alter my state of conscienousness. I don't have to....I can get on here to get thrown for a loop!

MY Thoughts.....what goes around comes around, KJ and God is watching!

[FDInLaw]

JMO but I often wonder why people have to find justifications for other peoples outlandish behaviors. like how people say KJ was greiving and hysterical when finding Nona's body....or how they scrutinize the courier's reporting for telling the facts about the trial. People sending letters to the Courier making it seem like the courier was manufacturing the idea that KJ was a bad person.... or how "a little drug use" is supposed to be fine since most everyone does it...whatever....I don't do it, none of my friends do drugs... I've never felt the need to alter my state of conscienousness. I don't have to....I can get on here to get thrown for a loop!

MY Thoughts.....what goes around comes around, KJ and God is watching!We are on the some wave length here! :beer:

[ifIwereU]

I've always wondered about the first part of that week too. We know that he saw Nona either Mon or Tues night and they had intercourse (according to the interview and the ME's testimony). Where was he staying and what was he doing before Wed/Thurs when he was at Nona's until all hours?
well, he wasn't cleaning his room or vacuuming, because that's what he was doing when Nona was taking her last breath....pesty dust bunnys under the bed.

[lorettalockhorn]

I can get on here to get thrown for a loop!

Okay, now that made me laugh! It takes all kinds to make a world, doncha know?

well, he wasn't cleaning his room or vacuuming, because that's what he was doing when Nona was taking her last breath....pesty dust bunnys under the bed.

So, I wonder if he was with the other GF(s) or what before the murder. Was reenacting Cinderella his punishment for not checking in when he got to town?

[Manning]

I do think his *alleged* drug and alcohol abuse, ESPECIALLY when he was out on bond while awaiting his murder trial, shows a complete disregard for the law. I also think the whole rape allegation thing, even if only the part admitted to by the accused (Simmons) is true, makes the K.Jo Krew (including your #2 suspect CH) all look really trashy.

IMO AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN IMO

HAWG - YOU SAID IT ALL - TRUE SO TRUE

[CSOKC]

Okay, now that made me laugh! It takes all kinds to make a world, doncha know?



So, I wonder if he was with the other GF(s) or what before the murder. Was reenacting Cinderella his punishment for not checking in when he got to town?
I saw the name Amanda Wilcox on the facts only thread. Do we know anything about her? Is this the person that had sex with KJ a week before the murder?

[oxfordwebster]

I saw the name Amanda Wilcox on the facts only thread. Do we know anything about her? Is this the person that had sex with KJ a week before the murder?I've always wondered about that one, too. She was listed in the paper as being a witness for the defense that would "testify to the timeline" but we never heard from her.

[oxfordwebster]

Watching two grown people having consented sex is another story.It'd also be another story to assume that they were having consented sex in the first place, since that's never been clear.

You almost sound like another poster from a while back who basically chalked this kind of stuff up to "kids these days." :shrug:

[lorettalockhorn]

Just simply saying that everyone makes mistakes and needs to "learn lessons". That is the human nature. Your opinion of the lessons he needs to learn and mine are completely different. I have no doubt that Kevin Jones needs to learn some lessons. We all do. You seem to think that he needs to learn a lesson for "committing murder". I don't neccessarily agree. You seem to think he needs to learn a lesson for "voyeuring a rape". I don't neccessarily think that is true, either. Watching two grown people having consented sex is another story. IMO, perverted. But, to me sounded like everyone knew what was going on, so to each his own.

Wonder what kind of therapy would be appropriate for young adults who are excited by watching either rape OR consentual sex. Something along the lines of Alex's punishment in A Clockwork Orange, maybe? Kevin's crew is aberrant no matter how you try to spin it. My sympathies to the Jones, Whiteside and Simmons families for the sorry examples of manhood that they spawned.

[FDInLaw]

>snip<
You almost sound like another poster from a while back who basically chalked this kind of stuff up to "kids these days." :shrug: You may have something there! :biggrin:

[lorettalockhorn]

The story sounded like a crock in the first place. The girl recanted her story. Prior to that even, she sent joking text messages regarding their behavior to the accused. And, the two involved in sex have been seen together since. Sounds pretty clear to me. Sounds like the "victim" got mad for some reason or another and knew how to make a great scene.

:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:

I've always wondered; why would Simmons want to be around this girl any more than she would want to be around him?

There were clearly more than two people involved in this incident, Kevin's BFF Chelsea was right smack dab in the middle, for instance. Do you think that she inserted herself into the situation knowingly? I wouldn't be surprised if there was much more than illegal alcohol consumption going on. I am amazed at your shrugging off of the seriousness of the incident regardless of what she said, he said AND the truth.

[lorettalockhorn]

Would that be your truth or the REAL one? :shrug:

BTW, I am sure that the Jones, Whiteside and Simmons families are all heartbroken at your opinion of them. Ahhh.... soo saddddd.

There is more that one truth? Do tell!

I am relatively certain that my opinion about whatever happened at that party, seemingly with the approval of both the Whitesides and the Simmonses mirrors that of many people.

[lorettalockhorn]

Well ya know, it's just that your truths always seemed to be pretty untruthful, but a narcissist would never see that about oneself.

Who is the narcissist in the alleged rape story? The alleged victim? The perps? Do you have some inside information/truth that you could share?

Or are you saying that the friends and neighbors with whom I've discussed the alleged rape story with are narcissists? That they aren't truly concerned about the safety and welfare of their children and the community?

Another miscue on my part I'm sure. Help a girl out?

[lorettalockhorn]

Let me just say this much, the narcissist I was speaking of wasn't Kevin Jones or anyone from the rape story, nor your friends or neighbors.

Well, I'm just at a loss. Most of us are here in the interest of finding justice for Nona; was hoping that you had something to add to the discussion. Especially if you know The Truth about what is going on in KJ's drug and alcohol riddled mind.

[ifIwereU]

Don't recall saying I knew anything about "what is going on in KJ's drug and alcohol riddled mind." Never met the guy. I presume you haven't either.

I am interested in justice for Nona. Nona and Carol truly deserve that. I just don't believe it includes Kevin Jones being held responsible for Nona's murder. I think responsibility lies else where and that that person should be held accountable.
what has convinced you that he did not do it? was it the hysterical 911 phone call? his christain grandmothers testimony? his inability to walk out of an obvious crime scene and not touch anything? the U alive text message? I am curious!!

[ifIwereU]

Don't recall saying I knew anything about "what is going on in KJ's drug and alcohol riddled mind." Never met the guy. I presume you haven't either.

I am interested in justice for Nona. Nona and Carol truly deserve that. I just don't believe it includes Kevin Jones being held responsible for Nona's murder. I think responsibility lies else where and that that person should be held accountable.

give us some facts that you feel indicates KJ didn't do it...or give some indications of who you think did....and let me guess...OJ was framed?

[lorettalockhorn]

Don't recall saying I knew anything about "what is going on in KJ's drug and alcohol riddled mind." Never met the guy. I presume you haven't either.

I am interested in justice for Nona. Nona and Carol truly deserve that. I just don't believe it includes Kevin Jones being held responsible for Nona's murder. I think responsibility lies else where and that that person should be held accountable.


Oh, okay. It was the discussion about drugs that you chose to enter and wax philosophic about KJ's habilitation/rehabilitation issues. I just thought that since you had taken the defensive position, that you might set us straight. I've stated throughout the thread that I've never met any of the Joneses or Diperts or Dirksmeyers. Remember?

[ifIwereU]

But, is he merely a pothead or any other kind of doper for that matter? Does an occasional or once or twice use of adderall make a person a doper??
how do you know that KJ uses adderal?

[hawgustusgloop]

The story sounded like a crock in the first place. The girl recanted her story.

LIE

Charges were not filed due to lack of evidence.

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=13546&Search=simmons

An excerpt:

"Addressing rumors circulating since The Courier first reported the allegations Thursday, Gibbons said the accuser did not recant her allegations."

:no:

[ifIwereU]

haha.... been there, done that.

THEN EXIT STAGE LEFT!!!

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks Hawg! :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

Hmmm...


I do see where Gibbons said that, but the accuser did change her mind....

I guess you "win" on that point. I still think it was concensual and apparently so did Gibbons.

Excerpts:

“There was a lack of evidence for prosecution,” Gibbons said when reached Saturday morning. "
The report included the content of the text messages the accuser sent.
“Ok..not that I don’t already feel easy seein that weve hung out twice now..and everyone there prolly thinks im a *****..haha..but I also did that classic lose an earring and im betting in bed..so..if somone finds a random earring its mine..haha..[sic],” the accuser texted to Simmons at 12:44 p.m. on Dec. 29.
“Haha...I am SO sorry...i honestly don’t remember most of last night..and I don’t know how I got drunk so fast..im such a lightweight!! [sic]” she texted at 1:12 p.m. that day. There were seven more messages to Simmons from the accuser made that day.
The accuser admitted to investigators she had sent the messages because she wanted “to be cool about it.”

"Gibbons said no tests for physical evidence will be conducted.
“I don’t feel it’s particularly significant since it was admitted there was sex,” he said. "

NOTE TO SELF: Those are DEFINITELY messages that should be sent to your accused rapist.

I don't see where the victim says that she changed her mind about anything. Now I'll have to go back and read the whole mess all over again; I cannot for the life of me remember exactly when it was that CH notified the girl's cousin that the alleged victim had possibly been drugged and raped. Was all this messenging going on before or after Chelsea dropped that bombshell?

NOTE TO SELF: Those are DEFINITELY messages that should be sent to your accused rapist. And I'm completely and totally clueless as to what this means. Help a girl out?

[lorettalockhorn]

Uhh... those text messages.... from the "day after" the rape. After someone rapes you, you should DEFINITELY always send them several trashy text messages afterward "practically" thanking that person for a good time. (Sarcasm... :rolleyes:)

Anywho, I didn't say that I "read that the victim changed her mind". It is my opininon that she must have....

The way that I interpreted the article in The Courier was that the girl attended a party on the 28th and didn't remember what happened and was texting Simmons on the 29th. But it wasn't until the 31st that CH told the cousin about what had happened, with the drugs and voyeurism, etc. The date of the police report is 12/31.

So what possessed Chelsea to tell that lie about her friends, anyway? And I've heard rumors that RW has accused KJ of serious drug use. What's up with that? Do these people switch allegiances as often as they switch sex partners? Is it possibly the effect of drug and alcohol use?

[Riviera]

Back on topic please! Let me know if I missed anything that needs deleting. Use the report a post option and I'll take care of it.

Thank you
R

[CSOKC]

Okay, I'll try to start. We had been talking about KJ's drug use, and also I was wondering about the Wilcox girl. Also, though I still believe that KJ is the murderer, I think we should maybe talk about who we can for sure rule out and why.

[lorettalockhorn]

Okay, I'll try to start. We had been talking about KJ's drug use, and also I was wondering about the Wilcox girl. Also, though I still believe that KJ is the murderer, I think we should maybe talk about who we can for sure rule out and why.

There were several witnesses that weren't called (for whatever reason). Maybe the defense merely sensed that she wasn't necessary; that the alibi had been sufficiently been established. A little OT: I've often wondered about calls that may have been conducted on landlines (if any) between/among KJ and JJ and grandmother or anyone else that day since I'm convinced that he had plenty of time to commit the murder. Wonder if he called mom at work and fished for an invite to the Christmas party.

[CSOKC]

There were several witnesses that weren't called (for whatever reason). Maybe the defense merely sensed that she wasn't necessary; that the alibi had been sufficiently been established. A little OT: I've often wondered about calls that may have been conducted on landlines (if any) between/among KJ and JJ and grandmother or anyone else that day since I'm convinced that he had plenty of time to commit the murder. Wonder if he called mom at work and fished for an invite to the Christmas party.
Can landline calls not be tracked? I think that would be a good thing to know for sure.

[oxfordwebster]

Can landline calls not be tracked? I think that would be a good thing to know for sure.The phone companies certainly have records, but they are notoriously uncooperative with law enforcement, and if you are a regular person, they'll straight-up lie to you about having those sorts of records.

[Riviera]

Please do not respond to those who come here obviously to disrupt. Use the report a post option instead.

Thank you
R

[CSOKC]

In my opinion, I feel like we can rule out three of the people that I have heard mentioned as suspects. JM, JB and definitely DD (which I think was a joke in the first place.) Anyone else?

[hawgustusgloop]

In my opinion, I feel like we can rule out three of the people that I have heard mentioned as suspects. JM, JB and definitely DD (which I think was a joke in the first place.) Anyone else?

I never really considered her a suspect, but I guess some do, so I would add Chelsea to that list.

[CSOKC]

I never really considered her a suspect, but I guess some do, so I would add Chelsea to that list.
Okay, so that leaves KJ, JH (?) and TY. Right? I don't think I really consider JH as much of a suspect from what I've read though.

[FDInLaw]

I heard from a reliable source that "Bubba" Turner was out of town when the murder was committed and that there is no evidence that he and Nona even knew each other.

[LurkerNoMore]

In my opinion, I feel like we can rule out three of the people that I have heard mentioned as suspects. JM, JB and definitely DD (which I think was a joke in the first place.) Anyone else?

DD's inclusion as a suspect, at least by some, was by no means a joke. It makes perfect sense to include family members as suspects, particularly given his odd behavior. Not saying he's still a suspect or that he did it. Only saying it was reasonable to consider him in the suspect pool.
Same with anyone who had significant contact with Nona: KJ, CH, JM, Jared from the cell phone, TY, Guy from the music department she was intimate with (can't remember his name right now)... How and whether these people were ruled out doesn't changed the fact that they initially should have been considered as possibilities. To not initially look at all possibilities is ignorant. Nope, DD's inclusion, not a joke.

[CSOKC]

DD's inclusion as a suspect, at least by some, was by no means a joke. It makes perfect sense to include family members as suspects, particularly given his odd behavior. Not saying he's still a suspect or that he did it. Only saying it was reasonable to consider him in the suspect pool.
Same with anyone who had significant contact with Nona: KJ, CH, JM, Jared from the cell phone, TY, Guy from the music department she was intimate with (can't remember his name right now)... How and whether these people were ruled out doesn't changed the fact that they initially should have been considered as possibilities. To not initially look at all possibilities is ignorant. Nope, DD's inclusion, not a joke.
I understand him being considered a suspect because he is a family member and had contact with her. I meant that him being a suspect now, I think is a joke. I don't think he maliciously tried to destroy evidence as some have said.

[FDInLaw]

What I find is no joke it the vicious way several people have been attacked without cause just to deflect attention from KJ. These goons are not interested in the truth and what they propagate is often outright lies and slander. Take the Bubba Turner situation. . . it caused a major uproar and was based on NO actual facts. Another one, KJ's attorneys mentioned JM several times during the hearings, which got his name in the Courier, but they didn't even call him during the trial. I have heard from a reliable source that JM has a good alibi for the day of the murder, that he cooperated with police and passed a polygraph. That's just it, the RPD did thoroughly check out a whole gamut of suspects. . . but most of what the public hears is just nonsense drummed up by Kevin's supporters.

Also, all you DD haters out there. . . Yes, Duane was home alone during part of that morning resting, but before you say "aha, he must have hiked down the hill and killed her" sorry to break it to ya, he was also on the phone and computer for long periods of time (all of which can be electronically documented). So, unless he was somehow able to kill Nona while having a normal conversation with one of his other kids on the phone, he's not your man. (Now, that would be some serious multi-tasking! LOL!)

[lorettalockhorn]

At this point, I don't see another suspect with a motive. I would have considered CH if she didn't have an alibi. I've heard that she and KJ are/have been sex partners and she is physically capable.

I realize that we're discussing Nona's friends, but I don't for a minute think that a stranger did this murder because there should have been evidence of Nona having put up a fight (if the perp was allowed into the apartment to begin with). I think that she was stripped was a way to degrade her by an aquaintance. Also don't for a minute think that all suspects' alibis were only checked before KJ was arrested; I think that LE has gone over the case many times. I truly believe that all of the suspects that were pointed out here are innocent.

Can't believe that JM hasn't filed suit against the defense for slander.

[CSOKC]

At this point, I don't see another suspect with a motive. I would have considered CH if she didn't have an alibi. I've heard that she and KJ are/have been sex partners and she is physically capable.

I realize that we're discussing Nona's friends, but I don't for a minute think that a stranger did this murder because there should have been evidence of Nona having put up a fight (if the perp was allowed into the apartment to begin with). I think that she was stripped was a way to degrade her by an aquaintance. Also don't for a minute think that all suspects' alibis were only checked before KJ was arrested; I think that LE has gone over the case many times. I truly believe that all of the suspects that were pointed out here are innocent.
Can't believe that JM hasn't filed suit against the defense for slander.
I couldn't agree more. I think this murder seemed too personal to be a stranger. Do you think KJ is innocent also?

[oxfordwebster]

Can't believe that JM hasn't filed suit against the defense for slander.We were talking about this earlier in the thread, and I imagine a large part of that has to do with the case file still being open. I bet we'll see a lot of developments from different camps after it closes and is open to an FOI.

I still laugh when Trey York's name comes up. I heard that the defense kept a girl out of the courtroom that was to testify about him being in his dorm room at the time of the murder. That shouldn't be a surprise, because it really seems like they had way too much control over things that worked in their favor.

That, and we've never seen a motive for York, and he apparently cooperated with the police. Just because he had a lawyer just means he has rights, which you can't fault him for trying to protect.

Let's not even get into the coke spill, which Nona's mother testified existed before Trey York could have ever made a similar spill in Nona's apartment.

[CSOKC]

We were talking about this earlier in the thread, and I imagine a large part of that has to do with the case file still being open. I bet we'll see a lot of developments from different camps after it closes and is open to an FOI.

I still laugh when Trey York's name comes up. I heard that the defense kept a girl out of the courtroom that was to testify about him being in his dorm room at the time of the murder. That shouldn't be a surprise, because it really seems like they had way too much control over things that worked in their favor.

That, and we've never seen a motive for York, and he apparently cooperated with the police. Just because he had a lawyer just means he has rights, which you can't fault him for trying to protect.

Let's not even get into the coke spill, which Nona's mother testified existed before Trey York could have ever made a similar spill in Nona's apartment.
So that only leaves JH and KJ. But as far as I know JH never had a motive either. Which means that KJ stands alone, surprise surprise, as the only reasonable suspect.

Something I've wondered about, can they charge KJ with something else besides !st degree murder? Or does the whole thing fall under double jeopardy?

[lorettalockhorn]

I couldn't agree more. I think this murder seemed too personal to be a stranger. Do you think KJ is innocent also?

I think he's as guilty as sin. He had motive and opportunity, although the State didn't do a good job of driving that home (in part due to the judge's ruling about his other GF(s)). I grok Bacon's use of the word "tacky" whereas the jury apparently did not. It is beyond my comprehension that KJ was the one who left a bloody print on the murder weapon, while the "true killer" left behind no clues of quintessence.

[hawgustusgloop]

At this point, I don't see another suspect with a motive. I would have considered CH if she didn't have an alibi. I've heard that she and KJ are/have been sex partners and she is physically capable.

I realize that we're discussing Nona's friends, but I don't for a minute think that a stranger did this murder because there should have been evidence of Nona having put up a fight (if the perp was allowed into the apartment to begin with). I think that she was stripped was a way to degrade her by an aquaintance. Also don't for a minute think that all suspects' alibis were only checked before KJ was arrested; I think that LE has gone over the case many times. I truly believe that all of the suspects that were pointed out here are innocent.

Can't believe that JM hasn't filed suit against the defense for slander.

I agree with all of this. As for JM, I think it really sucks that the defense was able to openly cast suspicion on him, and then not call him at the trial. I definitely understand why they didn't call him, IMO it would just make their Kreepy Klient Killer Kevin look (even more) guilty. I put that in the same dirty category as labelling Brent Hunnicutt (who also conveniently didn't testify) a "jewelry store employee," and mentioning the "I wonder why you are leading me on" text message without attributing a name to it. Lucky for them that "right-minded" jury couldn't cut through all the spin and weigh a little evidence.

JMO

[lorettalockhorn]

We were talking about this earlier in the thread, and I imagine a large part of that has to do with the case file still being open. I bet we'll see a lot of developments from different camps after it closes and is open to an FOI.

I still laugh when Trey York's name comes up. I heard that the defense kept a girl out of the courtroom that was to testify about him being in his dorm room at the time of the murder. That shouldn't be a surprise, because it really seems like they had way too much control over things that worked in their favor.

That, and we've never seen a motive for York, and he apparently cooperated with the police. Just because he had a lawyer just means he has rights, which you can't fault him for trying to protect.

Let's not even get into the coke spill, which Nona's mother testified existed before Trey York could have ever made a similar spill in Nona's apartment.

Good points, all.

[lorettalockhorn]

I agree with all of this. As for JM, I think it really sucks that the defense was able to openly cast suspicion on him, and then not call him at the trial. I definitely understand why they didn't call him, IMO it would just make their Kreepy Klient Killer Kevin look (even more) guilty. I put that in the same dirty category as labelling Brent Hunnicutt (who also conveniently didn't testify) a "jewelry store employee," and mentioning the "I wonder why you are leading me on" text message without attributing a name to it. Lucky for them that "right-minded" jury couldn't cut through all the spin and weigh a little evidence.

JMO

I can't help but wonder if there was something that the jury heard that wasn't reported that really swayed them. Was it merely KJ's mannerisms in court that made him appear not guilty; something that outweighed the outlandish behavior and coincidences? Something that made them suspend belief re: motive and opportunity?

[CSOKC]

I can't help but wonder if there was something that the jury heard that wasn't reported that really swayed them. Was it merely KJ's mannerisms in court that made him appear not guilty; something that outweighed the outlandish behavior and coincidences? Something that made them suspend belief re: motive and opportunity?
I guess that for all we know, the jury could have hung out with KJ all weekend. I don't think that this was treated as a murder trial should be treated.

[oxfordwebster]

I guess that for all we know, the jury could have hung out with KJ all weekend. I don't think that this was treated as a murder trial should be treated.No, it wasn't. The jury shouldn't have been allowed to leave, especially when many of us have witnessed the attempts at manipulation of public information, especially during this board, that was going on before, during, and after the trial. Who knows that the jurors weren't tainted by this?

Also, the judge should have polled the jury after the verdict. This is a quick write-up (http://www.bennettandbennett.com/blog/2007/09/why-we-poll-jury.html) on why that should happen.

[CSOKC]

No, it wasn't. The jury shouldn't have been allowed to leave, especially when many of us have witnessed the attempts at manipulation of public information, especially during this board, that was going on before, during, and after the trial. Who knows that the jurors weren't tainted by this?

Also, the judge should have polled the jury after the verdict. This is a quick write-up (http://www.bennettandbennett.com/blog/2007/09/why-we-poll-jury.html) on why that should happen.
I wonder if they could even do that now. I know it wouldn't make any difference really in the scheme of things, but it would be interesting to know.

[oxfordwebster]

I wonder if they could even do that now. I know it wouldn't make any difference really in the scheme of things, but it would be interesting to know.Well, I took away from the various statements made by jurors that there was some swaying of opinion being done by a few in the pool, which isn't exactly supposed to happen.

[CSOKC]

Well, I took away from the various statements made by jurors that there was some swaying of opinion being done by a few in the pool, which isn't exactly supposed to happen.
Oh, really? Were these published statements?

[oxfordwebster]

Oh, really? Were these published statements?Yeah, a few jurors had the balls to actually talk to some press, which I think only makes them look way worse. I don't have anything handy, but I do remember one talking about how initially they were split, and it sounded to me like someone led a prayer and convinced the others to change their mind to innocence. Sigh.

Also, your avatar makes me want to change back to my old one, they are such a good match!

[CSOKC]

Yeah, a few jurors had the balls to actually talk to some press, which I think only makes them look way worse. I don't have anything handy, but I do remember one talking about how initially they were split, and it sounded to me like someone led a prayer and convinced the others to change their mind to innocence. Sigh.

Also, your avatar makes me want to change back to my old one, they are such a good match!
What was your old one? I got mine from gettyimages. I just thought it was funny.

I do remember a juror talking about being led by God I think. So that would make sense.

[oxfordwebster]

What was your old one? I got mine from gettyimages. I just thought it was funny.It was a picture of the Skipper from Gilligan's Island. I think it was, at least. Looked a lot like him!

[LurkerNoMore]

Can't believe that JM hasn't filed suit against the defense for slander.

If JM filed a civil suit, the public would learn just why he was considered by many a suspect and, at minimum, a shady character. He won't be filing a civil suit, and you can take that to the bank.

Those details about JM might even come out if Nona's family files suit against Kevin.

For the record, I don't think JM committed this crime. But I do think he's shady, and anything written about him or his character was well deserved.

[oxfordwebster]

If JM filed a civil suit, the public would learn just why he was considered by many a suspect and, at minimum, a shady character. He won't be filing a civil suit, and you can take that to the bank.

Those details about JM might even come out if Nona's family files suit against Kevin.

For the record, I don't think JM committed this crime. But I do think he's shady, and anything written about him or his character was well deserved.So what do you know that apparently everyone on the forum hasn't heard? You're the first to outright come out and say JM is that shady of a character.

[CSOKC]

If JM filed a civil suit, the public would learn just why he was considered by many a suspect and, at minimum, a shady character. He won't be filing a civil suit, and you can take that to the bank.

Those details about JM might even come out if Nona's family files suit against Kevin.

For the record, I don't think JM committed this crime. But I do think he's shady, and anything written about him or his character was well deserved.
I thought it was just emails that he sent Nona that were the reason he got brought up in the first place? I remember hearing that they had some sort of relationship, but the only shady thing he did that I have heard of was have a relationship with her while he had a fiance. And I'm definitely not saying that's no big deal...but I don't know why that would have made him a suspect. I guess it was the emails?

[oxfordwebster]

I thought it was just emails that he sent Nona that were the reason he got brought up in the first place? I remember hearing that they had some sort of relationship, but the only shady thing he did that I have heard of was have a relationship with her while he had a fiance. And I'm definitely not saying that's no big deal...but I don't know why that would have made him a suspect. I guess it was the emails?I dug into this one over a year ago when those allegations were originally made by the defense team and posted on this forum. Any of JM's involvement with Nona was in the first half of 2005, before he ever had a fiancee. The defense tried to swap this to the second half of 2005, but everyone I've talked to that knows anything about it or knows JM says it was all the first half of 2005.

[FDInLaw]

If JM filed a civil suit, the public would learn just why he was considered by many a suspect and, at minimum, a shady character. He won't be filing a civil suit, and you can take that to the bank.

Those details about JM might even come out if Nona's family files suit against Kevin.

For the record, I don't think JM committed this crime. But I do think he's shady, and anything written about him or his character was wellWe deserved.
We're all ears! Do try to keep to facts you can back up and not just the spin Kevin's crew has thrown out there. :hat:

I know JM was a suspect from day one because CH thought he was quote "weird." Kind of ironic if you consider the source lol! :rolleyes:

[CSOKC]

We're all ears! Do try to keep to facts you can back up and not just the spin Kevin's crew has thrown out there. :hat:

I know JM was a suspect from day one because CH thought he was quote "weird." Kind of ironic if you consider the source lol! :rolleyes:

That's why he was a suspect? Crazy. It seems to me that this CH girl completely turned her back on finding out what really happened to Nona. She joined Team Kevin right away and didn't even stop to consider that he very well may have been the murderer.

[FDInLaw]

I dug into this one over a year ago when those allegations were originally made by the defense team and posted on this forum. Any of JM's involvement with Nona was in the first half of 2005, before he ever had a fiancee. The defense tried to swap this to the second half of 2005, but everyone I've talked to that knows anything about it or knows JM says it was all the first half of 2005. This goes along with what I've heard. In fact, I heard that JM broke off his relationship with Nona and then was engaged later (fall 2005). . . I don't see any possible motive here. Sounds to me like JM had moved on and it's possible that JM and Nona were not in contact with each other during the time of the murder.

The e-mails between Nona and JM prove that Nona did not think he was a "creep" and that he was not stalking her (as suggested by camp kevin).

[FDInLaw]

still seeking justice! :rose:

You are not forgotten NONA!

:rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose:

[hawgustusgloop]

If JM filed a civil suit, the public would learn just why he was considered by many a suspect and, at minimum, a shady character. He won't be filing a civil suit, and you can take that to the bank.

Those details about JM might even come out if Nona's family files suit against Kevin.

For the record, I don't think JM committed this crime. But I do think he's shady, and anything written about him or his character was well deserved.

The only bad things I have ever read/heard about JM came in the form of posts on this board which were also full of other baseless rumors from the Kamp K.Jo Spin Team, so IMO they are not credible. I think Kamp K.Jo was in spin mode from the very beginning and were grasping at any straws they could find. I wonder why they were trying so hard to cast suspicion elsewhere (even when it didn't fit the facts) so early on in the investigation if they truly thought he was so innocent? I'm sure all of K.Jo's Kronies and his Krony with benefits were happy to point the police in any direction he wanted them to.

Just my opinion.

[LurkerNoMore]

This goes along with what I've heard. In fact, I heard that JM broke off his relationship with Nona and then was engaged later (fall 2005). . . I don't see any possible motive here. Sounds to me like JM had moved on and it's possible that JM and Nona were not in contact with each other during the time of the murder.

The e-mails between Nona and JM prove that Nona did not think he was a "creep" and that he was not stalking her (as suggested by camp kevin).

You are correct. The emails JM himself turned over weren't bad. But, FD, did you ever hear anything about logs of instant messages between the two?

[FDInLaw]

You are correct. The emails JM himself turned over weren't bad. But, FD, did you ever hear anything about logs of instant messages between the two?

Let me ask.

[Leroy L]

I still laugh when Trey York's name comes up. I heard that the defense kept a girl out of the courtroom that was to testify about him being in his dorm room at the time of the murder. That shouldn't be a surprise, because it really seems like they had way too much control over things that worked in their favor.

Could the defense really keep out an important witness like this? That just doesn't seem plausible to me. Maybe I'm naive on this one. Thouroughly discounting other suspects as possibilities might have changed the outcome of the trial.

[oxfordwebster]

Could the defense really keep out an important witness like this? That just doesn't seem plausible to me. Maybe I'm naive on this one. Thouroughly discounting other suspects as possibilities might have changed the outcome of the trial.The most I know is that the girl came up from Clinton to the trial, but they kept her out of the courtroom.

[FDInLaw]

You are correct. The emails JM himself turned over weren't bad. But, FD, did you ever hear anything about logs of instant messages between the two?

Apparently the consensus of the FBI guy(s) that analyzed Kevin's computer was that Kevin tampered with it just as much as he did the crime scene. Nona had borrowed his computer, deleted the e-mails she had on it not knowing that Kevin had installed a program that would still retrieve them. Once the FBI got their hands on the computer it showed that the messages had indeed been retrieved by Kevin but since he looked at them after the murder they could not prove that he had looked at them before the murder (possible motive). Out of respect for Nona, I'm not going to go into details about the content. . . but I will say that Jeremy Martin was in the clear as far as the investigators were concerned. There were NO threatening messages from him, etc.

Also, there were several chats that Kevin modified after the murder that the investigators could not recover. . . hum, I wonder why?

Thank you for asking the question lurkernomore, I'm now more convinced than ever that KEVIN JONES IS AS GUILTY AS SIN!

[CSOKC]

Apparently the consensus of the FBI guy(s) that analyzed Kevin's computer was that Kevin tampered with it just as much as he did the crime scene. Nona had borrowed his computer, deleted the e-mails she had on it not knowing that Kevin had installed a program that would still retrieve them. Once the FBI got their hands on the computer it showed that the messages had indeed been retrieved by Kevin but since he looked at them after the murder they could not prove that he had looked at them before the murder (possible motive). Out of respect for Nona, I'm not going to go into details about the content. . . but I will say that Jeremy Martin was in the clear as far as the investigators were concerned. There were NO threatening messages from him, etc.

Also, there were several chats that Kevin modified after the murder that the investigators could not recover. . . hum, I wonder why?

Thank you for asking the question lurkernomore, I'm now more convinced than ever that KEVIN JONES IS AS GUILTY AS SIN!
Did the jury know about this? How could they not see that he was too suspicious to not be guilty? That is just beyond me...

[oxfordwebster]

Did the jury know about this? How could they not see that he was too suspicious to not be guilty? That is just beyond me...To me, the prosecution really didn't present everything it should have. Combine that with some questionable motions where the defense was able to suppress some things... and you have the jury without a complete picture.

It's really not surprising to hear that Kevin would be spying on Nona.

[FDInLaw]

Did the jury know about this? How could they not see that he was too suspicious to not be guilty? That is just beyond me...

That's the thing, they were not told this to my knowledge. . . I have a serious case of the chills. . . I was just told that the conclusion the FBI guys came to after reading all of Nona and Kevin's e-mails, and then those of Nona and Jeremy, was that Jeremy was Nona's "soul mate." She apparently was very upset that he was dating someone else. . . yet she had been on and off with Kevin in the full knowledge that he cheated on her. . . I've suspected it for some time, but now I am convinced that Nona cared for Jeremy more than she did Kevin . . . a great deal more. OMG! Can you imagine Kevin's rage when he read Nona and Jeremy's e-mails????

No one had more of a motive for murder than Kevin! WHY did the jury not hear this????????? :flamemad:

I know that they could not prove that Kevin had read the e-mails before the murder. . . but if he knew how to access them after the murder I have a hard time believing that he had not seen them.

Now I have all Kevin's lies that first night at the police station going through my mind. . . how in the h3ll did the jury manage not to see through Kevin????


. . . . . I need to cool off. . . . I just can't believe that Kevin is free to live his life after what he has done.

[lorettalockhorn]

If JM filed a civil suit, the public would learn just why he was considered by many a suspect and, at minimum, a shady character. He won't be filing a civil suit, and you can take that to the bank.

Those details about JM might even come out if Nona's family files suit against Kevin.

For the record, I don't think JM committed this crime. But I do think he's shady, and anything written about him or his character was well deserved.

I've never heard anything negative about JM and I'm a first class yenta. I basically see him as having been a suspect because he was in Nona's emal address book. That The Courier printed his name as bandied about by the defense pretty much blows the theory that they were biased against KJ out of the water.

But if you know anything, do tell!

[lorettalockhorn]

To me, the prosecution really didn't present everything it should have. Combine that with some questionable motions where the defense was able to suppress some things... and you have the jury without a complete picture.

It's really not surprising to hear that Kevin would be spying on Nona.

Ox, thanks for the link to the jury poll essay. Why didn't Gibbons do that?

I agree that the State didn't present everything. I had such high hopes, but it's as if Gibbons didn't have any oomph. Wonder if Phillips had been first chair if the outcome would have been different.

[CSOKC]

There were so many conflicting statements regarding Kevin's timeline. But for some reason, the jury didn't notice that every person that was close to Kevin just so happened to be the person making the timeline seem as if he didnt ever have a chance to go to Nona's. But then you have all of the people that weren't close to Kevin that, in my opinion, are telling the truth and it shows that he had plenty of time. I mean, hello! The bath tub guys conflict, the grandma and BW conflict, even KJ's statements conflict with facts. I've seen people say "how can you expect Kevin to remember everything about that day?" But seriously, these aren't just minor inconsistencies. These are hours and hours.

[lorettalockhorn]

Did the jury know about this? How could they not see that he was too suspicious to not be guilty? That is just beyond me...

There was a computer expert who testified, but personally, I didn't get much more from his testimony than I did the cell phone rep's.

[oxfordwebster]

There was a computer expert who testified, but personally, I didn't get much more from his testimony than I did the cell phone rep's.The witnesses are only going to answer what they are asked about, so again it's on the prosecution/defense to reveal things through those witnesses.

[lorettalockhorn]

The witnesses are only going to answer what they are asked about, so again it's on the prosecution/defense to reveal things through those witnesses.

I so agree! Have I mentioned that I am disappointed in Gibbons?

[FDInLaw]

The witnesses are only going to answer what they are asked about, so again it's on the prosecution/defense to reveal things through those witnesses. *jumping up and down* You changed your avatar back! :)

You snarky devil you! :biggrin:

[FDInLaw]

I've got to tell you all that I have a lot of respect for CSOKC. . . she had questions and she sought answers. The trial was extremely frustrating, I truly felt that I had more questions afterward than I did going in. . . I really did not expect that. I naively thought that a lot of things would be cleared up and made public, but they were not. All you lurkers out there, I'd like to challenge you to seek answers for yourself. Make some phone calls. Ask official sources. Don't just trust what is posted here or what you hear on the street. Seek firsthand knowledge. A young woman in your community lost her life in a violent manner. You have a right to be concerned. You have a right to desire that the truth be known. It is the least we can do for Nona. :rose:

[oxfordwebster]

I've got to tell you all that I have a lot of respect for CSOKC. . . she had questions and she sought answers. The trial was extremely frustrating, I truly felt that I had more questions afterward than I did going in. . . I really did not expect that. I naively thought that a lot of things would be cleared up and made public, but they were not. All you lurkers out there, I'd like to challenge you to seek answers for yourself. Make some phone calls. Ask official sources. Don't just trust what is posted here or what you hear on the street. Seek firsthand knowledge. A young woman in your community lost her life in a violent manner. You have a right to be concerned. You have a right to desire that the truth be known. It is the least we can do for Nona. :rose:Amen, sister.

[FDInLaw]

Amen, sister.
I haven't been this pumped up in months. . . in the last few days it has been made crystal clear on this very board that camp kevin is not done pumping out lies. They will do anything to suppress the TRUTH. Nona is not going to be forgotten! The public will know the truth if we fight for it! :patriot:

[jonikay]

Brent Hunnicutt was a Dover high schooler around KJ's time. IMO, that is as far as his testimony was going to go . . . friend of KJ possibly lying, (excuse me), solidifying his alibi. But, of course, he could have been paid off, (excuse me), acting as KJ's true friend and helped him find a motive destroyer, (excuse me), an engagement ring for Nona.
I am beginning to wonder myself if there was an inside deal between Gibbons and the KJ camp. But then again, how could the Jones', (excuse me), KJ's defense attorney(s) vying for a political office, have so much money?
It is unnerving to even grasp the thought of a prosecutor and other public officials, those whose bills we are essentially paying, possibly not doing their jobs to the full extent possible just to further their career or get some secret mob off their backs or something. The evidence seems so overwhelming at this point that it sickens me to even think about it sometimes.

To think that KJ wants to go back to school to study law and psychology, peshaw.

[Manning]

I am beginning to wonder myself if there was an inside deal between Gibbons and the KJ camp.
It is unnerving to even grasp the thought of a prosecutor and other public officials, those whose bills we are essentially paying, possibly not doing their jobs to the full extent possible just to further their career or get some secret mob off their backs or something. The evidence seems so overwhelming at this point that it sickens me to even think about it sometimes.

To think that KJ wants to go back to school to study law and psychology, peshaw.

I have wondered about this myself (inside deal between Gibbons and the KJ camp). From the newspaper daily reports of the trial there were several times that I wondered if Gibbons & Phillips were even awake, IMO. They let so many things go by unchalleneged, and too many things were not cleared up, which I guess was one of the goals of the defense team, IMO.

[Manning]

To think that KJ wants to go back to school to study law and psychology, peshaw.

Seriously???????:eek:
Please tell me this is a bad joke.

[Manning]

A young woman in your community lost her life in a violent manner. You have a right to be concerned. You have a right to desire that the truth be known. It is the least we can do for Nona. :rose:

This community has not forgotten Nona, and I pray daily for her mom & family.:rose: :rose: No family should have to live this nightmare.

The defense team did everything in their power to put Nona on trial, but nothing they did could take away from the inner beauty she had.
She was working hard at ATU to develop her God given talents, she didn't do drugs, she didn't drink to excess like so many of her classmates from Dover, she gave of herself to children in need, she worried about the stray cats so she provided them food, water, & shelter. SHE THOUGHT OF OTHERS.

Members of the community are still concerned, but lots of them are like me and think they do know the truth. It's just too bad that the jury let a murderer walk, IMO

We also deserve the right to have justice in a court room. Something needs to be done about the problem of people with enough money being able to get away with murder, IMO

[sololobo]

There were several witnesses that weren't called (for whatever reason). Maybe the defense merely sensed that she wasn't necessary; that the alibi had been sufficiently been established. A little OT: I've often wondered about calls that may have been conducted on landlines (if any) between/among KJ and JJ and grandmother or anyone else that day since I'm convinced that he had plenty of time to commit the murder. Wonder if he called mom at work and fished for an invite to the Christmas party.

"Heather Leavell, a former school counselor and co-worker of Janice Jones, testified she spoke with Janice on Dec. 14 about Janice’s plans to have Jones attend the teacher’s Christmas party with her the next night." Courier

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15425&Search=dirksmeyer

Plans for Kevin to attend the Christmas party were made before the murder.

[oxfordwebster]

"Heather Leavell, a former school counselor and co-worker of Janice Jones, testified she spoke with Janice on Dec. 14 about Janice’s plans to have Jones attend the teacher’s Christmas party with her the next night." Courier

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15425&Search=dirksmeyer

Plans for Kevin to attend the Christmas party were made before the murder.Call me crazy, but they were also making plans for it that same day because there was testimony about it. I don't remember the exact details, but what you're presenting isn't the whole story.

[lorettalockhorn]

"Heather Leavell, a former school counselor and co-worker of Janice Jones, testified she spoke with Janice on Dec. 14 about Janice’s plans to have Jones attend the teacher’s Christmas party with her the next night." Courier

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15425&Search=dirksmeyer

Plans for Kevin to attend the Christmas party were made before the murder.

From The Courier: Donna Adkins, an employee of Dover Schools, testified she spoke with Janice Jones on Dec. 15 and encouraged her to bring Kevin Jones to the teachers’ Christmas party.
“I called the principal and asked if Kevin could come, and he agreed,” she said. She told the jury the call was placed at about 4 p.m.


http://couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15412&Search=dirksmeyer

[ifIwereU]

He'll just end up smoking dope at school like before....

[FDInLaw]

This community has not forgotten Nona, and I pray daily for her mom & family.:rose: :rose: No family should have to live this nightmare.

The defense team did everything in their power to put Nona on trial, but nothing they did could take away from the inner beauty she had.
She was working hard at ATU to develop her God given talents, she didn't do drugs, she didn't drink to excess like so many of her classmates from Dover, she gave of herself to children in need, she worried about the stray cats so she provided them food, water, & shelter. SHE THOUGHT OF OTHERS.

Members of the community are still concerned, but lots of them are like me and think they do know the truth. It's just too bad that the jury let a murderer walk, IMO

We also deserve the right to have justice in a court room. Something needs to be done about the problem of people with enough money being able to get away with murder, IMO

Excellent post! :rose:

[sololobo]

Call me crazy, but they were also making plans for it that same day because there was testimony about it. I don't remember the exact details, but what you're presenting isn't the whole story.

And plans were being made the day before the murder. Therefore Kevin didn't have to "fish" for an invitation the day of the murder. Pertaining to the question asked, it is the whole story. Implying it was a last minute invitation is not the whole story.

[lorettalockhorn]

And plans were being made the day before the murder. Therefore Kevin didn't have to "fish" for an invitation the day of the murder. Pertaining to the question asked, it is the whole story. Implying it was a last minute invitation is not the whole story.

Why was the approval not until the eleventh hour? Could it be that KJ had told JJ that he didn't want to go to the party when first discussed? But then realized that he had to contrive a reason to be in the neighborhood to check on Nona since he was so worried about her? That she hadn't been answering his many calls throughout the day? Now just how many calls did he make?

When he called the Diperts, he didn't even express his concerns to Duane. His supporters would like to spin things so that it would seem that Duane had a key and easy access to Nona's apartment. Yet Kevin himself must have assumed that Duane didn't have a key or he would have asked to borrow it rather than commit the crime of breaking into the apartment.

GMAB

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't think that Gibbons sold out to the defense. Not only would his political reputation suffer, but so would his personal rep. What I do think may have happened, is that he went along with the request to back off of the probing into the sexual aspects of Nona and Kevin's relationship in order to protect Nona's reputation and it backfired. Once the cat was out of the bag and JH testified to having had sex with her, the State should have gone for broke and turned the tables back on Kevin. The judge hamstringed him to some degree, but he should have taken some time to seriously rethink his strategy. One thing that could have been made clearer (perhaps), is the email exchanges and that Kevin was monitoring her computer. He should have pulled out all the stops to present Kevin as the controlling stalker freak that he is.

[jonikay]

I understand what you are saying, lo. But you weren't there. It was absolutely pathetic. From the beginning of the trial all the way to the end. It wasn't Gibbons, but the short prosecutor (Phillips?) that fought for Nona the majority of the time.

[lorettalockhorn]

I definitely respect your point of view, you having been there. Something went horribly wrong; from the unskilled investigation to the appearance that Nona was on trial rather than Kevin. But how or why would Gibbons have sold out? Where is the benefit to himself or the public? Why even charge KJ with the crime?

[LurkerNoMore]

I don't think that Gibbons sold out to the defense. Not only would his political reputation suffer, but so would his personal rep. What I do think may have happened, is that he went along with the request to back off of the probing into the sexual aspects of Nona and Kevin's relationship in order to protect Nona's reputation and it backfired. Once the cat was out of the bag and JH testified to having had sex with her, the State should have gone for broke and turned the tables back on Kevin. The judge hamstringed him to some degree, but he should have taken some time to seriously rethink his strategy. One thing that could have been made clearer (perhaps), is the email exchanges and that Kevin was monitoring her computer. He should have pulled out all the stops to present Kevin as the controlling stalker freak that he is.

Don't you think if Kevin was really monitoring her computer, that would have been brought out at trial?

But, nevertheless, I'll bet that the prosecution didn't want what was on her computer to be made public, and that's why the computer-related things weren't brought out. What kind of picture did it paint of Nona and her relationship(s), I wonder? I'm mainly talking about the chat logs that FD confirmed existed between Nona and JM. If the picture the chat logs painted were one of soulmates between JM and Nona, as FD suggests, that wouldn't have done any damage and the State could have gone with the theory that Kevin found and read the chat logs then became angry, especially if they had "experts" saying he monitored her computer. But nope, they didn't want to go down that road and call good ol' JM. Wonder why? Loretta seems to think he is a fine, upstanding citizen. I'm sure JM and TY go visit old ladies at the nursing home each Sunday. Such fine, young men they are.

Now... hypothetically, what if the chat logs or other contents of Nona's computer revealed something different about how Nona interracted with other guys, revealed that she wasn't as security-minded as some would choose to believe? Well, the State did the right thing by not going down that road. The defense didn't bring them up because they didn't have to. They outscored the prosecution on every level at all turns, so why risk making the jury mad at them by bringing up more items about Nona than they had to?

And as far as jealousy being one motive for the killing, what about JH (music room intimacy), JM (FD says "soulmates"), TY (thought he and Nona were together, felt she used him to get a better grade in biology). Maybe one of them grew jealous enough to feel threatened knowing the boyfriend was coming home from college, and Nona turned away their advances? Maybe they had girlfriends who were jealous of Nona?

As far as Gibbons selling out, maybe he just lost his steam when he realized Kevin didn't do this crime. Maybe at that point he couldn't turn back and had to bring him to trial. To drop charges after the investigation was so mangled would have been more damaging to Gibbons than to try an innocent man.

Since we're throwing out conspiracy theories.

[ifIwereU]

Don't you think if Kevin was really monitoring her computer, that would have been brought out at trial?

But, nevertheless, I'll bet that the prosecution didn't want what was on her computer to be made public, and that's why the computer-related things weren't brought out. What kind of picture did it paint of Nona and her relationship(s), I wonder? I'm mainly talking about the chat logs that FD confirmed existed between Nona and JM. If the picture the chat logs painted were one of soulmates between JM and Nona, as FD suggests, that wouldn't have done any damage and the State could have gone with the theory that Kevin found and read the chat logs then became angry, especially if they had "experts" saying he monitored her computer. But nope, they didn't want to go down that road and call good ol' JM. Wonder why? Loretta seems to think he is a fine, upstanding citizen. I'm sure JM and TY go visit old ladies at the nursing home each Sunday. Such fine, young men they are.

Now... hypothetically, what if the chat logs or other contents of Nona's computer revealed something different about how Nona interracted with other guys, revealed that she wasn't as security-minded as some would choose to believe? Well, the State did the right thing by not going down that road. The defense didn't bring them up because they didn't have to. They outscored the prosecution on every level at all turns, so why risk making the jury mad at them by bringing up more items about Nona than they had to?

And as far as jealousy being one motive for the killing, what about JH (music room intimacy), JM (FD says "soulmates"), TY (thought he and Nona were together, felt she used him to get a better grade in biology). Maybe one of them grew jealous enough to feel threatened knowing the boyfriend was coming home from college, and Nona turned away their advances? Maybe they had girlfriends who were jealous of Nona?

As far as Gibbons selling out, maybe he just lost his steam when he realized Kevin didn't do this crime. Maybe at that point he couldn't turn back and had to bring him to trial. To drop charges after the investigation was so mangled would have been more damaging to Gibbons than to try an innocent man.

Since we're throwing out conspiracy theories.

Your theory that any of the above mentioned "interests" of Nona's is a very good point and all mentioned could very well have been involved in what happened...

but I am reminded, and I have to trust that the investigators working on the case did all the right and necessary things, that each of the peole you mentioned had reliable alibis and left no palm or fingerprints on the murder weapon. just because JM is considered a "dark or shady character" doesn't make him a killer...just as drug use on the part of KJ doesn't mean he is a killer....I have eliminated drug use out of my "motive" equation.

as for the female companions of any of Nonas male callers....IMO...The amount of force used to stirike the back of Nona's head alone elminates most of the females in my book. the ME felt that the killer would have continued the attack but the opportunity weapon (the lamp) broke into pieces and it was abandoned ...that indicates a lot of strength. And I have seen enough cat fights to know that Nona at least on some level would have fought back if the attacker was a female....

Although the RPD was very inexperienced at crime scene work, I truly feel that they knew enough about investigating crimes to know that an elimination process was necessary of anyone that knew Nona....no one is above suspicion in my book. polygraphs were done and alibis verified.....bottom line

What+Why=Who.....

one of the most recent banned posters made the comment that some of us on this board were narcissistic....that's how I would characterize KJ....once he killed Nona, he went into a self-preservation mode....like nothing happened because, to him, his life was more important...JMO

[lorettalockhorn]

Boy are you off base, nobody. I don't happen to think that there was a conspiracy. And Gibbons could have dropped charges against KJ at any time; I don't think for a minute that eighteen months after Nona was killed that he suddenly went into the courtroom and decided that he should have been trying all of the suspects that Kamp KuJo would like to throw suspicion on.

Like Christina has done in the past, you are putting words into my mouth. I have never said that JM is a fine, upstanding citizen; only that I have never heard anything negative about him. I've heard plenty about Kevin, who also to the best of my knowledge does not visit nursing homes in his spare time. It would probably cut into his drinking, drug use and screwing around time.

There is to this day, no indication that JH testified to having had sex with Nona on the Tech campus, not in a music room or anywhere else. That is possibly one of the many lies and misconceptions that Christina posted here that cannot be verified. If you have knowledge about that in particular, there are many of us who would love to know about it. JM had moved on from his relationship with Nona quite some time before she was murdered, why would he suddenly be jealous enough of her to kill her? He was apparently cooperative with police and had an alibi, as apparently did everyone, including TY, that Kevin's devotees would like for us to blame for Nona's death.

I have zero idea why these things were not brought out in court, that is the nature of the discussion. Honestly, for the jury to see Nona as having cuckolded Kevin and not allowing them to see that Kevin did the same was a serious mistake on Gibbons' part. I wonder if he didn't know that JH was going to testify to having had sex with Nona in Nona's apartment. I've read that an attorney should never ask a question in court that he doesn't already know the answer to; maybe he miscalculated. I don't for a minute believe that dropping the charges would have been less damaging than trying an innocent man. Which is a moot point, since IMO, he didn't.

[lorettalockhorn]

>>I don't for a minute believe that dropping the charges would have been less damaging than trying an innocent man.

What I meant to say here is that I don't think that dropping the charges would have been either more OR less damaging to Gibbons, just that I don't think that he would have gone into court if he didn't believe that KJ was/is guilty. And I truly believe that with a different or Not So Self-Congratulatory in Their Own Christianity Jury, he would have been found guilty.

U, back when there was talk of Kevin being a sociopath, I gave an armchair diagnosis of narcissism. :beer:

Maybe that's how the jury related to KJ.

[jonikay]

As far as Gibbons selling out, maybe he just lost his steam when he realized Kevin didn't do this crime. Maybe at that point he couldn't turn back and had to bring him to trial. To drop charges after the investigation was so mangled would have been more damaging to Gibbons than to try an innocent man.

Since we're throwing out conspiracy theories.

OK, Lurker . . . I can sort of agree with you on the Gibbons thing. The whole "selling out" theory that I threw out there was OT, I must agree with that. I can agree that Gibbons lost steam when they were only a few hours into the trial. I don't necessarily think that it was because he realized Kevin didn't do it. Instead, he realized that there was a fine line to walk as far as hammering KJ's character and keeping Nona's intact. By this, I mean that there were probably things on the defense end that the defense was going to bring out if the prosecution brought certain things out and Gibbons made a quick judgment call, possibly the wrong judgment call, and decided that it would be best to keep certain things under wraps. What with all the RPD and investigation mistakes, KJ would have probably gotten off anyway, without blubbering Gibbons. Maybe some of the things he kept quiet could help the Dirksmeyer family with a civil suit. Who knows. Maybe that became his mindset. Not to mention that JH and TY were called by the prosecution to solidify the timeline. It was a sad coincidence that the both of them were somehow seemingly inappropriately involved with Nona at some point (even though JH testified to more questionable behaviors, it has always been TY who has gotten the short end of the stick), so that behavior was bound to come out, but they had to be called in order to solidify the prosecution's timeline.
Sorry if I am rambling, just throwing out some ideas . . .

[nobody]

Boy are you off base, nobody. I don't happen to think that there was a conspiracy. And Gibbons could have dropped charges against KJ at any time; I don't think for a minute that eighteen months after Nona was killed that he suddenly went into the courtroom and decided that he should have been trying all of the suspects that Kamp KuJo would like to throw suspicion on.



I haven't said anything...

(?)

[LurkerNoMore]

I have zero idea why these things were not brought out in court, that is the nature of the discussion.

Because they didn't implicate Kevin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They would have added to reasonable doubt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LurkerNoMore]

I haven't said anything...

(?)

Lo is frazzled, Nobody.

[LurkerNoMore]

[QUOTE=jonikay;9021003] Maybe some of the things he kept quiet could help the Dirksmeyer family with a civil suit. [QUOTE]

I think the things he kept quiet about would have the opposite effect.

[lorettalockhorn]

Lo is frazzled, Nobody.

Not frazzled, just a little frustrated that I couldn't get back in to edit. :punch: I think the board needs an enema! But I did apologize to nobody.

[oxfordwebster]

Because they didn't implicate Kevin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They would have added to reasonable doubt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Yeah, things like Kevin spying on Nona would have helped Kevin's image in court, so that's why they kept it out.

Or, Gibbons didn't handle this well.

I know which one is more likely.

[jonikay]

I think the things he kept quiet about would have the opposite effect.
You could be right, Lurker . . . of course, if the info about the computer and emails is true, that seems like info that could help the Dirksmeyer family in a civil trial . . .
Also, there has to be some things we don't know or that the jury wasn't privy to, such as KJ's "affair" from UofA and the numerous people that seemed to have a hefty part in the case that never came to light . . . right???

[LurkerNoMore]

You could be right, Lurker . . . of course, if the info about the computer and emails is true, that seems like info that could help the Dirksmeyer family in a civil trial . . .
Also, there has to be some things we don't know or that the jury wasn't privy to, such as KJ's "affair" from UofA and the numerous people that seemed to have a hefty part in the case that never came to light . . . right???


Yes, you are right.

[FDInLaw]

[QUOTE=jonikay;9021003] Maybe some of the things he kept quiet could help the Dirksmeyer family with a civil suit. [QUOTE]

I think the things he kept quiet about would have the opposite effect.

Guess we will find that out eventually. ;)

[upallnight]

What I find is no joke it the vicious way several people have been attacked without cause just to deflect attention from KJ. These goons are not interested in the truth and what they propagate is often outright lies and slander. Take the Bubba Turner situation. . . it caused a major uproar and was based on NO actual facts. Another one, KJ's attorneys mentioned JM several times during the hearings, which got his name in the Courier, but they didn't even call him during the trial. I have heard from a reliable source that JM has a good alibi for the day of the murder, that he cooperated with police and passed a polygraph. That's just it, the RPD did thoroughly check out a whole gamut of suspects. . . but most of what the public hears is just nonsense drummed up by Kevin's supporters.

Also, all you DD haters out there. . . Yes, Duane was home alone during part of that morning resting, but before you say "aha, he must have hiked down the hill and killed her" sorry to break it to ya, he was also on the phone and computer for long periods of time (all of which can be electronically documented). So, unless he was somehow able to kill Nona while having a normal conversation with one of his other kids on the phone, he's not your man. (Now, that would be some serious multi-tasking! LOL!)

Very well said! Here's to hoping the murder is found (or found out) and Justice For Nona will be served in one way or another.

[upallnight]

Excellent post! :rose:


How true Fed, this local agree's 100%. Very good post!:rose:

[upallnight]

This community has not forgotten Nona, and I pray daily for her mom & family.:rose: :rose: No family should have to live this nightmare.

The defense team did everything in their power to put Nona on trial, but nothing they did could take away from the inner beauty she had.
She was working hard at ATU to develop her God given talents, she didn't do drugs, she didn't drink to excess like so many of her classmates from Dover, she gave of herself to children in need, she worried about the stray cats so she provided them food, water, & shelter. SHE THOUGHT OF OTHERS.

Members of the community are still concerned, but lots of them are like me and think they do know the truth. It's just too bad that the jury let a murderer walk, IMO

We also deserve the right to have justice in a court room. Something needs to be done about the problem of people with enough money being able to get away with murder, IMO

Great post Manning! I know many locals agree!:rose:

[Amy]

So that only leaves JH and KJ. But as far as I know JH never had a motive either. Which means that KJ stands alone, surprise surprise, as the only reasonable suspect.

Something I've wondered about, can they charge KJ with something else besides !st degree murder? Or does the whole thing fall under double jeopardy?

Carol could file a wrongful death suit. The person does not have to be found guilty in a criminal case. Say, like OJ. I think there was a civil suit against Robert Blake who also was aquitted---if there was, I don't know the outcome of it--I'm not up on that case at all.

[Manning]

Does anyone know what the maximum penalty is in a wrongful death case?

[ifIwereU]

Does anyone know what the maximum penalty is in a wrongful death case?

the only penalty would be monetary....and since KJ doesn't have much income it doesn't seem that would be very much...however, I think the Diperts aren't concerned about the dollar amount. Its getting a jury (that will hopefully pay attention) and say, YEP, HE DID IT!! Like in the OJ case, and the Diperts could get a portion of his future earnings....if he is found guilty.

[sweetgranny]

This community has not forgotten Nona, and I pray daily for her mom & family.:rose: :rose: No family should have to live this nightmare.

The defense team did everything in their power to put Nona on trial, but nothing they did could take away from the inner beauty she had.
She was working hard at ATU to develop her God given talents, she didn't do drugs, she didn't drink to excess like so many of her classmates from Dover, she gave of herself to children in need, she worried about the stray cats so she provided them food, water, & shelter. SHE THOUGHT OF OTHERS.

Members of the community are still concerned, but lots of them are like me and think they do know the truth. It's just too bad that the jury let a murderer walk, IMO

We also deserve the right to have justice in a court room. Something needs to be done about the problem of people with enough money being able to get away with murder, IMO


I do so hope that justice can be found for Nona. We all loved her.

[lorettalockhorn]

the only penalty would be monetary....and since KJ doesn't have much income it doesn't seem that would be very much...however, I think the Diperts aren't concerned about the dollar amount. Its getting a jury (that will hopefully pay attention) and say, YEP, HE DID IT!! Like in the OJ case, and the Diperts could get a portion of his future earnings....if he is found guilty.

I would think that an attorney/psychologist could earn a good living (provided that they can dig up clientele who isn't afraid of them); if nothing else, he could go on retainer for his friends. If the past is any indication of the future, they could use someone in that capacity.

[FDInLaw]

I do so hope that justice can be found for Nona. We all loved her. WELCOME TO THE BOARD!:seeya:

[FDInLaw]

I would think that an attorney/psychologist could earn a good living (provided that they can dig up clientele who isn't afraid of them); if nothing else, he could go on retainer for his friends. If the past is any indication of the future, they could use someone in that capacity.
Keep in mind, Kevin has yet to become one. I hope for his family's sake he will make something of himself, but I honestly have little confidence that he will. It's rumored that Grandma Jones bought him a brand new pick-up truck right after the trial. . . sounds like he doesn't "need" to make much and he maybe lacking the motivation that many of his peers have. Why be a productive citizen when your family will reward you regardless (even for being on trial for murder)? :shrug:

[hawgustusgloop]

Well, I took away from the various statements made by jurors that there was some swaying of opinion being done by a few in the pool, which isn't exactly supposed to happen.

I got that impression, too. It really disturbed me, because I also got the impression that at some point early on, the jury had some type of discussion where all of its members declared their Christian beliefs (AKA "right-mindedness"). It made me wonder if there wasn't some degree of some jurors feeling the need to acquiesce to the opinions of others with stronger personalites and opinions, in fear of not being considered as "Christian" if they did not agree with them.

A hypothetical example: Maybe someone who was leaning toward a guilty verdict said to the group, "What do you think about the grandma's testimony?," and another juror responded immediately with, "I think she is a good Christian lady, and as such, I believe she is telling the truth and would never lie under oath." Well, if the juror who asked the original question had thought Granny lied, and s/he had already openly declared his/her Christianity along with all the others, perhaps s/he would feel a bit apprehensive about saying, "I think she's a big ol' liar and the 'good Christian lady' schtick is just an act to save her grandson's hide."

[sweetgranny]

Keep in mind, Kevin has yet to become one. I hope for his family's sake he will make something of himself, but I honestly have little confidence that he will. It's rumored that Grandma Jones bought him a brand new pick-up truck right after the trial. . . sounds like he doesn't "need" to make much and he maybe lacking the motivation that many of his peers have. Why be a productive citizen when your family will reward you regardless (even for being on trial for murder)? :shrug:


They are certainly doing him no favors

[FDInLaw]

the only penalty would be monetary....and since KJ doesn't have much income it doesn't seem that would be very much...however, I think the Diperts aren't concerned about the dollar amount. Its getting a jury (that will hopefully pay attention) and say, YEP, HE DID IT!! Like in the OJ case, and the Diperts could get a portion of his future earnings....if he is found guilty.
You're right, it isn't about money. No figure can replace Nona or even soften the pain. Nona was brutally murdered and ripped from her family. A civil trial is about getting the justice they were robbed of. The expense of a civil trial will hit the Diperts hard (I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the figures). . . it's heartbreaking that justice was not served in July. No family should have to go through all this. They have faced the unbearable, and now they are faced with seeking justice themselves. It's just so wrong. :rose:

It's my hope that Nona's case will stay open and that there will be further investigation. If the case is cleaned up a bit it will be easier to get a "guilty" verdict the second time around. JMO

[hawgustusgloop]

Keep in mind, Kevin has yet to become one. I hope for his family's sake he will make something of himself, but I honestly have little confidence that he will. It's rumored that Grandma Jones bought him a brand new pick-up truck right after the trial. . . sounds like he doesn't "need" to make much and he maybe lacking the motivation that many of his peers have. Why be a productive citizen when your family will reward you regardless (even for being on trial for murder)? :shrug:

I hope this isn't true. Maybe next time he murders someone, they'll buy him a house. How sad.

JMO

[sweetgranny]

WELCOME TO THE BOARD!:seeya:


Thanks so much for the welcome:) :)

[CSOKC]

You're right, it isn't about money. No figure can replace Nona or even soften the pain. Nona was brutally murdered and ripped from her family. A civil trial is about getting the justice they were robbed of. The expense of a civil trial will hit the Diperts hard (I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the figures). . . it's heartbreaking that justice was not served in July. No family should have to go through all this. They have faced the unbearable, and now they are faced with seeking justice themselves. It's just so wrong. :rose:

It's my hope that Nona's case will stay open and that there will be further investigation. If the case is cleaned up a bit it will be easier to get a "guilty" verdict the second time around. JMO

Do you know if they're ever going to go back and test the evidence that they didn't test before? Like the blood scrapings from the oven door, etc.? I know they didn't test it the first time around, but maybe they will now. I don't remember from what I've read if they got scrapings from the blinds or anywhere else. But if they did, maybe they'll test that as well. Or is it too late?

[LurkerNoMore]

You're right, it isn't about money. No figure can replace Nona or even soften the pain. Nona was brutally murdered and ripped from her family. A civil trial is about getting the justice they were robbed of. The expense of a civil trial will hit the Diperts hard (I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the figures). . . it's heartbreaking that justice was not served in July. No family should have to go through all this. They have faced the unbearable, and now they are faced with seeking justice themselves. It's just so wrong. :rose:

It's my hope that Nona's case will stay open and that there will be further investigation. If the case is cleaned up a bit it will be easier to get a "guilty" verdict the second time around. JMO

I disagree with you, because I think the legal system worked in July and an innocent man was found not guilty.

In comparison to the figures you are trying to wrap your mind around, I won't be surprised if Kevin's attorneys for the civil case everyone expects to be coming 1) are the same as in the criminal case and 2) charge next to nothing to help Kevin out due to their emotional involvement, though I expect that Kevin's family will have to pay the costs of the case, (court reporters, etc.). This will be personal, it will be hard for all involved, and it will be ugly. No way around it. I'd bet the Jones family are ready for a fight the same way the Diperts are. This is a tragic situation and I'll bet that both families will take out all their aggression on each other, unfortunately. Can you imagine the number of depositions that will take place on both sides and the hard questions that will be asked? The Plaintiffs will target KJ, his love life, his family, his drug use. The defense will hit hard against DD, TY, JM, and will dive into Nona's personal life, all the while taking apart once again the RPD. Both mothers will be in for a long, long haul.

A new attorney or new attorneys going against the Jones machine will be up for a challenge and will be going against a team who knows this case backwards and forwards and who, I would imagine, are willing to fight this fight as long as it takes.

I'd bet the case will last over two years. The defense has everything organized already and could probably go to trial tomorrow. It will be a long road for the plaintiffs. I doubt this board will agree with me, but my prediction is that it will be a judgment for the defendant. There won't be any chance of settlement here. And I don't see this being dismissed prior to trial on any legal standard either (on Kevin's behalf). Looks like we will have plenty to talk about here for years to come.

I'll hope the Dipert's attorney isn't a newbie, or someone that sought them out to take on the case for the attention. I hope he or she can get as emotionally involved as the defense team.

Bristow, Johnson, and Robbins are going to be hard to beat.

Not to mention the fact that I think the truth is on Kevin's side.

[hawgustusgloop]

Apparently the consensus of the FBI guy(s) that analyzed Kevin's computer was that Kevin tampered with it just as much as he did the crime scene. Nona had borrowed his computer, deleted the e-mails she had on it not knowing that Kevin had installed a program that would still retrieve them. Once the FBI got their hands on the computer it showed that the messages had indeed been retrieved by Kevin but since he looked at them after the murder they could not prove that he had looked at them before the murder (possible motive). Out of respect for Nona, I'm not going to go into details about the content. . . but I will say that Jeremy Martin was in the clear as far as the investigators were concerned. There were NO threatening messages from him, etc.

Also, there were several chats that Kevin modified after the murder that the investigators could not recover. . . hum, I wonder why?

Thank you for asking the question lurkernomore, I'm now more convinced than ever that KEVIN JONES IS AS GUILTY AS SIN!

I would like to know more about this. When you say that Nona borrowed his computer, do you know any more about that? Was it a laptop she had borrowed for an extended period of time and had possibly just recently returned to him, or maybe she had just used it a couple of times to check her email? Or was it a desktop computer that was in his house or elsewhere that Nona just used when she visited? I would also like to know more about the nature of the program he supposedly installed. I wonder if the deleted email retrieval was simply a feature of a more broadly applicable program, or if the program was specifically designed for creeps to spy on unsuspecting girlfriends.

[oxfordwebster]

Damn. If I were a gambler, I'd say that was written like someone close to the defense team that came out of nowhere once the gag order was written.

Oh, wait...

Edit: I mean, seriously. That was some laughably shallow defense team stroking.

[ifIwereU]

I am curious...have you seen the video statement of KJ taken the night of murder? You obviously haven't or have chosen to disregard all the behavioral signs of guilt that reeked from his body. I would almost wager that Kenny Johnson has figured out the truth. He is a smart man, the others are just stuffed suits, IMO....I would be surprised if Mr. Johnson could look himself in the mirror and say "I know Kevin Jones didn't do this."

Yes, KJ was found not guilty...and we will all have to live with that, but that doens't mean God isn't watching. Everyday family and friends are faced with the tragic truth that loved ones do commit horrific crimes...some choose not to believe while others learn valuable lessons....that even the most unsuspecting person can commit murder...doesn't mean they can't still love the person, it only means they weren't the person they thought they were.

[hawgustusgloop]

I disagree with you, because I think the legal system worked in July and an innocent man was found not guilty.

I completely disagree with this statement.

In comparison to the figures you are trying to wrap your mind around, I won't be surprised if Kevin's attorneys for the civil case everyone expects to be coming 1) are the same as in the criminal case and 2) charge next to nothing to help Kevin out due to their emotional involvement.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that isn't going to happen.

The Plaintiffs will target KJ, his love life, his family, his drug use.

They should.


The defense will hit hard against DD, TY, JM, and will dive into Nona's personal life, all the while taking apart once again the RPD. Both mothers will be in for a long, long haul.

In a civil suit, the defendant's attorneys will not be afforded as much leeway in casting suspicion elsewhere. As far as Nona's personal life goes, by all accounts, SHE WAS A GREAT PERSON, despite attempts to tarnish her character. Everyone has secrets.

The defense has everything organized already and could probably go to trial tomorrow. It will be a long road for the plaintiffs.

This is absurd.



I'll hope the Dipert's attorney isn't a newbie, or someone that sought them out to take on the case for the attention. I hope he or she can get as emotionally involved as the defense team.

Rumor has it that they are being very selective and meticulous in exploring their options for legal representation.

Bristow, Johnson, and Robbins are going to be hard to beat.

How can you be so sure they will be representing him again?

Not to mention the fact that I think the truth is on Kevin's side.

I respectfully disagree.

[FDInLaw]

I disagree with you, because I think the legal system worked in July and an innocent man was found not guilty.

In comparison to the figures you are trying to wrap your mind around, I won't be surprised if Kevin's attorneys for the civil case everyone expects to be coming 1) are the same as in the criminal case and 2) charge next to nothing to help Kevin out due to their emotional involvement, though I expect that Kevin's family will have to pay the costs of the case, (court reporters, etc.). This will be personal, it will be hard for all involved, and it will be ugly. No way around it. I'd bet the Jones family are ready for a fight the same way the Diperts are. This is a tragic situation and I'll bet that both families will take out all their aggression on each other, unfortunately. Can you imagine the number of depositions that will take place on both sides and the hard questions that will be asked? The Plaintiffs will target KJ, his love life, his family, his drug use. The defense will hit hard against DD, TY, JM, and will dive into Nona's personal life, all the while taking apart once again the RPD. Both mothers will be in for a long, long haul.

A new attorney or new attorneys going against the Jones machine will be up for a challenge and will be going against a team who knows this case backwards and forwards and who, I would imagine, are willing to fight this fight as long as it takes.

I'd bet the case will last over two years. The defense has everything organized already and could probably go to trial tomorrow. It will be a long road for the plaintiffs. I doubt this board will agree with me, but my prediction is that it will be a judgment for the defendant. There won't be any chance of settlement here. And I don't see this being dismissed prior to trial on any legal standard either (on Kevin's behalf). Looks like we will have plenty to talk about here for years to come.

I'll hope the Dipert's attorney isn't a newbie, or someone that sought them out to take on the case for the attention. I hope he or she can get as emotionally involved as the defense team.

Bristow, Johnson, and Robbins are going to be hard to beat.

Not to mention the fact that I think the truth is on Kevin's side.
I've got one question for you. . . IF Kevin is innocent and "truth" is on his side, why do he and his supporters feel the need to lie nonstop??? Yeah, a civil trial would get nasty. . . but the general public sees and is fed up with all the lies. When Kamp Kevin rails on yet another truly innocent person at some point folks just ain't gonna take it seriously. There are billows of smoke but the only person on fire is Kevin.

[sweetgranny]

Apparently the consensus of the FBI guy(s) that analyzed Kevin's computer was that Kevin tampered with it just as much as he did the crime scene. Nona had borrowed his computer, deleted the e-mails she had on it not knowing that Kevin had installed a program that would still retrieve them. Once the FBI got their hands on the computer it showed that the messages had indeed been retrieved by Kevin but since he looked at them after the murder they could not prove that he had looked at them before the murder (possible motive). Out of respect for Nona, I'm not going to go into details about the content. . . but I will say that Jeremy Martin was in the clear as far as the investigators were concerned. There were NO threatening messages from him, etc.

Also, there were several chats that Kevin modified after the murder that the investigators could not recover. . . hum, I wonder why?

Thank you for asking the question lurkernomore, I'm now more convinced than ever that KEVIN JONES IS AS GUILTY AS SIN!

I think KJo is "guiltier than sin":flamemad:

[LurkerNoMore]

I've got one question for you. . . IF Kevin is innocent and "truth" is on his side, why do he and his supporters feel the need to lie nonstop??? Yeah, a civil trial would get nasty. . . but the general public sees and is fed up with all the lies. When Kamp Kevin rails on yet another truly innocent person at some point folks just ain't gonna take it seriously. There are billows of smoke but the only person on fire is Kevin.

Where has Kamp Kevin lied? Where can you show that they have lied? If they honestly believe Kevin didn't do it, they have to point at others!!! The RPD's investigation did nothing to establish alibis for others. All we have is many people saying, well, these others MUST have had an alibi? I don't give the RPD the benefit of the doubt.

What I call defending the truth by showing all the possibilities, you call blowing smoke and telling lies. My opinion doesn't matter. What will matter will the outcome of this next case, and if that's what it takes to make you people see Kevin is innocent, fine by me. I can't speak for the parties involved, but I can say that, completely IMO, they will be ready. And this board doesn't speak for all the locals. Trust me.

[LurkerNoMore]

Damn. If I were a gambler, I'd say that was written like someone close to the defense team that came out of nowhere once the gag order was written.

Oh, wait...

Edit: I mean, seriously. That was some laughably shallow defense team stroking.

This is what you always say and it's easy to just toss aside differing opinions by saying, oh, that's the defense and they are just telling lies. Well, if that is how you deal with this situation, that's fine. These are my opinions and my opinions and thoughts only.

[oxfordwebster]

Where has Kamp Kevin lied? Where can you show that they have lied? If they honestly believe Kevin didn't do it, they have to point at others!!! The RPD's investigation did nothing to establish alibis for others. All we have is many people saying, well, these others MUST have had an alibi? I don't give the RPD the benefit of the doubt.You don't know their alibis because they weren't presented because the majority of the people KJ's team hounded and lied about were never called to court. One example would be JM (defaming him at those hearings) and whoever else the defense pointed fingers at during the investigation before the trial.

[LurkerNoMore]

I respectfully disagree.

You are wrong about in a civil suit, the defense won't have as much ability to cast suspicion elsewhere. They will have more ability to do that. The rules in civil court are lessened. The rules in criminal court are tightened. For good reasons, the stakes are higher in criminal court. You can depose anyone you want in civil. You don't have that ability in criminal court.

[LurkerNoMore]

You don't know their alibis because they weren't presented because the majority of the people KJ's team hounded and lied about were never called to court. One example would be JM (defaming him at those hearings) and whoever else the defense pointed fingers at during the investigation before the trial.

If you were accused of killing someone, and you knew you didn't do it, are you telling me you and your lawyers wouldn't look around to see who else might have done it? And then you find out that the investigation was botched? And then you find out that there are all these shady characters around this girl? And you're not going to try and find out the truth?

I would.

[LurkerNoMore]

Dinner calls. I'll respond later tonight or in the morning. If nothing else, we are keeping this thread alive! Like I said, I'd imagine we'll be here for years to come. Long enough to prove one side of this argument right? I hope so, for all involved.

[oxfordwebster]

If you were accused of killing someone, and you knew you didn't do it, are you telling me you and your lawyers wouldn't look around to see who else might have done it? And then you find out that the investigation was botched? And then you find out that there are all these shady characters around this girl? And you're not going to try and find out the truth?

I would.Oh, right.

You've yet to mention any substantive "shadiness" of anybody that you've been trying to cast suspicion on. You just tried to do it with JM, which prompted a rather moving revelation from FD when she checked in on what you were claiming.

KJ has no damn interest in finding the truth, and the defense team did nothing but blow smoke, and unfortunately for Nona, it worked. They didn't find the real killer. KJ has no interest in that, because then he would have to answer for his crime.

[LurkerNoMore]

Not sure how to reply to a reply but ill put my new answers in bold

I disagree with you, because I think the legal system worked in July and an innocent man was found not guilty.

I completely disagree with this statement.

I agree to disagree with you

In comparison to the figures you are trying to wrap your mind around, I won't be surprised if Kevin's attorneys for the civil case everyone expects to be coming 1) are the same as in the criminal case and 2) charge next to nothing to help Kevin out due to their emotional involvement.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that isn't going to happen.

who knows

The Plaintiffs will target KJ, his love life, his family, his drug use.

They should.
yes, they should

The defense will hit hard against DD, TY, JM, and will dive into Nona's personal life, all the while taking apart once again the RPD. Both mothers will be in for a long, long haul.

In a civil suit, the defendant's attorneys will not be afforded as much leeway in casting suspicion elsewhere. As far as Nona's personal life goes, by all accounts, SHE WAS A GREAT PERSON, despite attempts to tarnish her character. Everyone has secrets. I've addressed this, but the rule are more lax. I don't challenge that Nona was a great person. However, it will be important for the defense to carefully estabilish that she wasn't as security obsessed as some have said. Whether that is true, who knows, but that is a route they could take

The defense has everything organized already and could probably go to trial tomorrow. It will be a long road for the plaintiffs.

This is absurd. I don't really mean literally, but if the same lawyers are used, they would be miles ahead in terms of preparation. right?



I'll hope the Dipert's attorney isn't a newbie, or someone that sought them out to take on the case for the attention. I hope he or she can get as emotionally involved as the defense team.

Rumor has it that they are being very selective and meticulous in exploring their options for legal representation. It will be an interesting case to watch

Bristow, Johnson, and Robbins are going to be hard to beat.

How can you be so sure they will be representing him again?
I can't be but I can only assume.

Not to mention the fact that I think the truth is on Kevin's side.

[lorettalockhorn]

Cannot believe that Lurker thinks that the familes will go at each other. The injured parties in this case have conducted themselves with dignity and aplomb; can't really say that for the Joneses and their supporters.

I honestly wonder how if the criminal trial didn't point to another killer that a civil trial will. Surely if it could have been proven that any of the suspects that our resident straw graspers constantly dredge up didn't have alibis, the defense would have done so in order to make their client appear innocent. As it is, he only stands not guilty. If his emotionally involved attorneys continue to simply cast aspersions on others without giving Kevin an alibi and explaining the bloody print, he'll likely be found guiltyand they will look like idiots. They would be well-served to find some redeemable qualities in Kevin.

There are plenty of attorneys capable of handling the Diperts' case if they go forward. Godspeed to them.

LOL at any of KJ's attorneys working for free. That just tickled me for some reason.

[FDInLaw]

Where has Kamp Kevin lied? Where can you show that they have lied? If they honestly believe Kevin didn't do it, they have to point at others!!! The RPD's investigation did nothing to establish alibis for others. All we have is many people saying, well, these others MUST have had an alibi? I don't give the RPD the benefit of the doubt.

What I call defending the truth by showing all the possibilities, you call blowing smoke and telling lies. My opinion doesn't matter. What will matter will the outcome of this next case, and if that's what it takes to make you people see Kevin is innocent, fine by me. I can't speak for the parties involved, but I can say that, completely IMO, they will be ready. And this board doesn't speak for all the locals. Trust me.

THIS IS A LIE! (See what I mean? :rolleyes: )

[Manning]

[QUOTE=LurkerNoMore;9023304]
However, it will be important for the defense to carefully estabilish that she wasn't as security obsessed as some have said. Whether that is true, who knows, but that is a route they could take [/B]

Let's see if I understand you correctly - it's Nona fault she got murdered because she wasn't as security obsessed as some had said.

Why would they want to take that route? I know people who never lock their doors - not even at night when they go to bed, but no one has ever ever tried to kill them.

Murder is not excusable just because someone's definition of security is not the same as the next persons.

[oxfordwebster]

On top of the security thing, they also think it's okay to defame other people with false crap just to make KJ look better. Anything goes with a defense team.

[hawgustusgloop]

On top of the security thing, they also think it's okay to defame other people with false crap just to make KJ look better. Anything goes with a defense team.

And this is why I think it is even more hilarious that LNM thinks K.Jo's criminal defense team would take his civil case for little or no money. They had to work overtime last time to try to spin him into some kind of reasonably acceptable-looking citizen, and that is tough to do. The kid was out on bond awaiting his murder trial when AT BEST K.Jo watched his buddy have sex with an underage girl who was under the influence of alcohol at some party and EVERYONE found out about it. It has also been heavily rumored that he is involved with drugs. Can you say nightmare client?

[k9 lurker]

If you were accused of killing someone, and you knew you didn't do it, are you telling me you and your lawyers wouldn't look around to see who else might have done it? And then you find out that the investigation was botched? And then you find out that there are all these shady characters around this girl? And you're not going to try and find out the truth?

I would.

From what I know of the case, the RPD looked into all persons that they could find that had any type of relationship with Nona and alibied them out except for one. The defense team only went behind RPD and did the same and came up with a off the wall story from Brandy Bean that could not be confirmed and put it in front of the jury and they bought it.

The defense made a claim at the end of the trial that they had information on who the real killer was. Why have they not gone to any law enforcement with this information. Instead they ask that the Arkansas State Police conduct an investigation. It is my understanding that they already have and they came to the same conclusion. Why do you think that they were ready to testify in court.

[LurkerNoMore]

[QUOTE=LurkerNoMore;9023304]
However, it will be important for the defense to carefully estabilish that she wasn't as security obsessed as some have said. Whether that is true, who knows, but that is a route they could take [/B]

Let's see if I understand you correctly - it's Nona fault she got murdered because she wasn't as security obsessed as some had said.

Why would they want to take that route? I know people who never lock their doors - not even at night when they go to bed, but no one has ever ever tried to kill them.

Murder is not excusable just because someone's definition of security is not the same as the next persons.

Now, those some words to put in my mouth, Manning. I never said, nor do I think, it was Nona's fault she was murdered. On the security issue, that is important. The impression this board has given and even some testimony (I think) was that she was so security-minded that she wouldn't open the door if she didn't know who it was, etc. I think that if it is shown that she wasn't like that all the time, then that would be important in showing how others might have had access to her. That's just my two cents on one way to begin to defend Kevin the next go round. I think we all can agree that when a person is murdered, it's not their fault.

[FDInLaw]

From what I know of the case, the RPD looked into all persons that they could find that had any type of relationship with Nona and alibied them out except for one. The defense team only went behind RPD and did the same and came up with a off the wall story from Brandy Bean that could not be confirmed and put it in front of the jury and they bought it.

The defense made a claim at the end of the trial that they had information on who the real killer was. Why have they not gone to any law enforcement with this information. Instead they ask that the Arkansas State Police conduct an investigation. It is my understanding that they already have and they came to the same conclusion. Why do you think that they were ready to testify in court.

I'd like the answer to that question too! Sounds like more defense spin to me. :cool:

[FDInLaw]

As the verdict was read, defense attorney Bill BRISTOW put his arm around Kevin Jones’ shoulders.
BRISTOW, speaking outside the courthouse on behalf of the Jones family and the defense team, told reporters, “Today, justice was done for Kevin Jones and his family. I feel like that justice needs to be done for Nona Dirksmeyer and her family, and I call upon the Pope County Sheriff’s office or the State Police to take over this investigation, [to] do it fair and impartial without ‘tunnel vision’ and ... get the real killer of Nona Dirksmeyer.”
Noting a gag order placed into effect by Special Circuit Judge John Patterson had been lifted with the reading of the verdict, BRISTOW reiterated to the public prior testimony from defense experts, saying “the defense found, at considerable expense, evidence that was not found by the Arkansas Crime Lab to the effect that there was male DNA on a condom wrapper near the decedent’s body.” He added that defense experts also found “a fingernail with male DNA not belonging to Kevin near [Dirksmeyer’s] body.”


In response to defense allegations that James “Trey” York or other persons with whom Dirksmeyer “had controversy” might have been involved in the murder, Gibbons told reporters, “all of those people were investigated by the Russellville Police Department and other law enforcement officials and were alibied.
“I don’t see any evidence at all that would compel me to bring charges against anyone else other than the person that was tried. But we’ll keep the [investigation] file open for a while.”


http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15464&Search=bristow

[oxfordwebster]

hahaha, the awesome Bristow comment where he brings up the fingernail, despite his own experts saying it didn't have anything to do with the murder.

I wonder if he's always dizzy from all of that spinning?

[lorettalockhorn]

If you were accused of killing someone, and you knew you didn't do it, are you telling me you and your lawyers wouldn't look around to see who else might have done it? And then you find out that the investigation was botched? And then you find out that there are all these shady characters around this girl? And you're not going to try and find out the truth?

I would.

So all these months later, who/where is the true killer? Who and what did the crackerjack defense team/ ace investigations come up with? Wouldn't their time and money have been better spent building a solid alibi for KJ? Explaining why he wasn't approved to be mommy's date until the eleventh hour? Explaining exactly why he was stricken with such concern for Nona's well-being on the way to a party that the Joneses were too rude to have RSVPed until the last minute? Oh, right. Contrivance.


On top of the security thing, they also think it's okay to defame other people with false crap just to make KJ look better. Anything goes with a defense team.

Now, remind me again, just how did they make KJ look better? (Better than what? she asks.)

[ifIwereU]

So all these months later, who/where is the true killer? Who and what did the crackerjack defense team/ ace investigations come up with? Wouldn't their time and money have been better spent building a solid alibi for KJ? Explaining why he wasn't approved to be mommy's date until the eleventh hour? Explaining exactly why he was stricken with such concern for Nona's well-being on the way to a party that the Joneses were too rude to have RSVPed until the last minute? Oh, right. Contrivance.




Now, remind me again, just how did they make KJ look better? (Better than what? she asks.)

made him get a hair cut....

[FDInLaw]

made him get a hair cut.... LMBO! :biggrin:

[ifIwereU]

what has convinced you that KJ did not do this crime? and give me something better than "because I know Kevin and he couldn't have done it." you seem to want us to believe that he didn't but I haven't seen any information that you have provided that is convincing....I am open to suggestions! that's why I am here. I am not emotionally involved to either side...I am just a person seeing things as they are presented. didn't know Nona and don't know Kevin.
The condom is the evidence that still stands alone in my book. Location is important....dna found on the condom can not be used to conclusively ID a person only exclude donors. I hope the defense eliminated RW as a donor for the DNA....maybe Frost will get a sample from him....

the condom was either staged or was motive....what say you?

[FDInLaw]

what has convinced you that KJ did not do this crime? and give me something better than "because I know Kevin and he couldn't have done it." you seem to want us to believe that he didn't but I haven't seen any information that you have provided that is convincing....I am open to suggestions! that's why I am here. I am not emotionally involved to either side...I am just a person seeing things as they are presented. didn't know Nona and don't know Kevin.
The condom is the evidence that still stands alone in my book. Location is important....dna found on the condom can not be used to conclusively ID a person only exclude donors. I hope the defense eliminated RW as a donor for the DNA....maybe Frost will get a sample from him....

the condom was either staged or was motive....what say you? Ryan Whiteside?! :eek: Huh. Do you think Kevin might have tried to set RW up? KJ did call and ask RW to check on Nona. :shrug:

[CSOKC]

Ryan Whiteside?! :eek: Huh. Do you think Kevin might have tried to set RW up? KJ did call and ask RW to check on Nona. :shrug:

I wouldn't put anything past him.

[lorettalockhorn]

Ryan Whiteside?! :eek: Huh. Do you think Kevin might have tried to set RW up? KJ did call and ask RW to check on Nona. :shrug:

I wonder if RW hasn't wondered the same thing. Wouldn't that make him wary of providing DNA to LE? How then would he be able to go about proving that he was set up instead of the condom wrapper being a trigger?? Does he have an airtight alibi? Yikes!

[FDInLaw]

I wonder if RW hasn't wondered the same thing. Wouldn't that make him wary of providing DNA to LE? How then would he be able to go about proving that he was set up instead of the condom wrapper being a trigger?? Does he have an airtight alibi? Yikes!Well, on the bright side, RW already has a lawyer! :rolleyes:

[oxfordwebster]

I wonder if RW hasn't wondered the same thing. Wouldn't that make him wary of providing DNA to LE? How then would he be able to go about proving that he was set up instead of the condom wrapper being a trigger?? Does he have an airtight alibi? Yikes!I've always been under the impression that Kevin was initially wanting to setup Ryan to at least find Nona by himself. I heard that Kevin and Ryan weren't as good of friends as they are now, which would explain why Ryan thought it was "weird" that Kevin was wanting him to be so adamant about checking on Nona. (They've definitely bonded since the murder.)

Kevin was surely hoping that Ryan would go around and see Nona through the glass. Unfortunately Ryan didn't play along (again, "weird"), so Kevin came himself and had to lead everyone that way, after conveniently not having his key.

[FDInLaw]

I've always been under the impression that Kevin was initially wanting to setup Ryan to at least find Nona by himself. I heard that Kevin and Ryan weren't as good of friends as they are now, which would explain why Ryan thought it was "weird" that Kevin was wanting him to be so adamant about checking on Nona. (They've definitely bonded since the murder.)

Kevin was surely hoping that Ryan would go around and see Nona through the glass. Unfortunately Ryan didn't play along (again, "weird"), so Kevin came himself and had to lead everyone that way, after conveniently not having his key.Interesting. Would RW have had any motive to kill Nona? He did know Nona, but from the sounds of it, not well. But then, he was a pallbearer.

[oxfordwebster]

Interesting. Would RW have had any motive to kill Nona? He did know Nona, but from the sounds of it, not well. But then, he was a pallbearer.I've never thought that RW did it, just that Kevin was hoping RW would have discovered her alone so he would have taken more heat and possibly given Kevin more time to cover his butt.

[hawgustusgloop]

Ryan Whiteside?! :eek: Huh. Do you think Kevin might have tried to set RW up? KJ did call and ask RW to check on Nona. :shrug:

I have thought this might be possible before, but I never can get very far with it. I have sort of wondered if K.Jo didn't happen to know where to find an empty condom wrapper (possibly RW's). Maybe in the days he was hiding out from his mom, he went to one of those delightful little gatherings his kronies had and for all we know, watched or knew of someone having sex very recently before and knew where to find the wrapper. Didn't he go to a friend's apartment that afternoon? Maybe he picked it up then and dropped it on Nona's counter during the "discovery"?

He had to be SOMEWHERE when he was not with Nona and hiding from his parents. Was he staying with a friend? What if this friend had to work or take a final or something and couldn't be there to let him in? Maybe this friend lent K.Jo a key or told him they hid one under the doormat or something and he stopped by and picked up the wrapper?

[lorettalockhorn]

I've never thought that RW did it, just that Kevin was hoping RW would have discovered her alone so he would have taken more heat and possibly given Kevin more time to cover his butt.

Exactly.

I have thought this might be possible before, but I never can get very far with it. I have sort of wondered if K.Jo didn't happen to know where to find an empty condom wrapper (possibly RW's). Maybe in the days he was hiding out from his mom, he went to one of those delightful little gatherings his kronies had and for all we know, watched or knew of someone having sex very recently before and knew where to find the wrapper. Didn't he go to a friend's apartment that afternoon? Maybe he picked it up then and dropped it on Nona's counter during the "discovery"?

He had to be SOMEWHERE when he was not with Nona and hiding from his parents. Was he staying with a friend? What if this friend had to work or take a final or something and couldn't be there to let him in? Maybe this friend lent K.Jo a key or told him they hid one under the doormat or something and he stopped by and picked up the wrapper?

I think that we've discussed a couple of times exactly where KJ might have been before showing up at the rents' that night. But don't think that anyone has ever been able to say for sure.

[CSOKC]

I've always been under the impression that Kevin was initially wanting to setup Ryan to at least find Nona by himself. I heard that Kevin and Ryan weren't as good of friends as they are now, which would explain why Ryan thought it was "weird" that Kevin was wanting him to be so adamant about checking on Nona. (They've definitely bonded since the murder.)

Kevin was surely hoping that Ryan would go around and see Nona through the glass. Unfortunately Ryan didn't play along (again, "weird"), so Kevin came himself and had to lead everyone that way, after conveniently not having his key.
I've thought the same thing. If KJ and his mom were coming to Nona's, then why was Ryan still there? Did Kevin tell him to wait there until he and his mom got there? If so, why?

[oxfordwebster]

I've thought the same thing. If KJ and his mom were coming to Nona's, then why was Ryan still there? Did Kevin tell him to wait there until he and his mom got there? If so, why?I believe that's exactly what he did--told Ryan to wait.

Why would he tell Ryan that? Maybe Kevin wanted as many people as possible there to possibly contaminate the scene after Ryan wouldn't find her by himself. KJ's great quick-thinking skills left him with a lot of holes in his story.

[FDInLaw]

I believe that's exactly what he did--told Ryan to wait.

Why would he tell Ryan that? Maybe Kevin wanted as many people as possible there to possibly contaminate the scene after Ryan wouldn't find her by himself. KJ's great quick-thinking skills left him with a lot of holes in his story.

That's just it. . . with no motive, RW isn't the best person to try and set up. Maybe it has everything to do with the condom wrapper. . . where Kevin got it???

[CSOKC]

I think it would be interesting to see why people do/do not think that Kevin Jones is guilty. Mainly why people think he is not guilty, just because anyone that ever comes on the board and says he is innocent has never really said why they believe that. Also, I think it would give a clear picture of where everyone stands.

First of all, I believe that he is guilty. I think that there were too many lies told for him to be not guilty. He's definitely trying to hide something, and I think that "something" is murder. I also believe that his family knows in their heart that he did this and that's why they're trying so hard to cover his butt.

[hawgustusgloop]

I've thought the same thing. If KJ and his mom were coming to Nona's, then why was Ryan still there? Did Kevin tell him to wait there until he and his mom got there? If so, why?

I once asked if it was Kevin's or Ryan's idea for Ryan to stay there until Kamp K.Jo arrived, and this was the response I received:

KJ told RW to stay there and he'd be there in a minute. He was beside the Pope County Courthouse on his way to Savannah's in Dardanelle to eat with his mom. It may have been that the defense says that Janice can be heard by RW in the background telling KJ to slow down.

[Amy]

From what I know of the case, the RPD looked into all persons that they could find that had any type of relationship with Nona and alibied them out except for one. The defense team only went behind RPD and did the same and came up with a off the wall story from Brandy Bean that could not be confirmed and put it in front of the jury and they bought it.

The defense made a claim at the end of the trial that they had information on who the real killer was. Why have they not gone to any law enforcement with this information. Instead they ask that the Arkansas State Police conduct an investigation. It is my understanding that they already have and they came to the same conclusion. Why do you think that they were ready to testify in court.


Echoes of Mark Geragos "We know who the real killer is!!!!" Gee whiz, don't these defense attornies think it would be in the best interest of EVERYONE, most of all the DEFENDANTS to work with the LE and DA and whomever to put the real killer on trial? Do they need the money from the current case so badly (or, in some cases, the PUBLICITY) that they keep this info to themselves, procede with a trial at enormous cost to the taxpayers (they are taxpayers,too)???? Just to PROVE that their clients are innocent? Wouldn't it just make more sense to work with authorities to get "the real killer" off the streets ASAP?

Frankly, when I hear a defense attorney brag about how they know who the real killer is, I think, sure---your dadblasted client!!! Especially when, not only do they not provide this information to authorities before trial (or maybe they do, and it is debunked) but they do NOT bring anything out about it DURING trial--I just am left thinking--BS!!!!!!!

[sweetgranny]

I believe the KJo is guilty and I have believed it all along. I feel that his alibi has too many holes and that Grandma lied (or possibly was convinced) that she saw him that day. Poor Grandma has gotten a bad rap but she could be confused about the day and was convinced that in fact she did see KJo and give him lunch money on the 12/15. Maybe she beieves what she is saying is true.

[CSOKC]

I believe the KJo is guilty and I have believed it all along. I feel that his alibi has too many holes and that Grandma lied (or possibly was convinced) that she saw him that day. Poor Grandma has gotten a bad rap but she could be confused about the day and was convinced that in fact she did see KJo and give him lunch money on the 12/15. Maybe she beieves what she is saying is true.
Or maybe she wants to believe it is true. I wonder how many of his supporters have convinced themselves that some of their lies are true?

[hawgustusgloop]

I believe the KJo is guilty and I have believed it all along. I feel that his alibi has too many holes and that Grandma lied (or possibly was convinced) that she saw him that day. Poor Grandma has gotten a bad rap but she could be confused about the day and was convinced that in fact she did see KJo and give him lunch money on the 12/15. Maybe she beieves what she is saying is true.

I think it is very possible she was convinced by someone that she did see him at that time and really believed what she testified to. Does anyone here know her well enough to offer an opinion on this? I know people who have become kind of scatterbrained in their 50s as well as people in their 80s who are sharp as tacks. I guess it just depends on the person.

[sweetgranny]

Or maybe she wants to believe it is true. I wonder how many of his supporters have convinced themselves that some of their lies are true?

Right and I would certainly WANT to believe it was true if it were my grandson.

[Amy]

I believe the KJo is guilty and I have believed it all along. I feel that his alibi has too many holes and that Grandma lied (or possibly was convinced) that she saw him that day. Poor Grandma has gotten a bad rap but she could be confused about the day and was convinced that in fact she did see KJo and give him lunch money on the 12/15. Maybe she beieves what she is saying is true.


From what I have been reading, seems Grandma "gives" her grandson a lot of things...so, perhaps she also "gave" him an alibi? Maybe she thinks she needs to save her grandson above all else? I wonder how many scrapes Grandma and/or mom and dad have helped KJ out of?

I am curious, tho. In all the information released, leaked, whatever before the trial, there was only information about KJ saying what time he went to the business, where it seemed the employee stated a different time. Wonder how come the information that his activities of time during the murder did not include seeing grandma and getting money? Seems that would have been a biggie---so wonder why that only came about in the trial? Sure grandma could have come up with the info prior---but how come it was not provided by KJ in his timeline for his days activities AT THE TIME?

[CSOKC]

From what I have been reading, seems Grandma "gives" her grandson a lot of things...so, perhaps she also "gave" him an alibi? Maybe she thinks she needs to save her grandson above all else? I wonder how many scrapes Grandma and/or mom and dad have helped KJ out of?

I am curious, tho. In all the information released, leaked, whatever before the trial, there was only information about KJ saying what time he went to the business, where it seemed the employee stated a different time. Wonder how come the information that his activities of time during the murder did not include seeing grandma and getting money? Seems that would have been a biggie---so wonder why that only came about in the trial? Sure grandma could have come up with the info prior---but how come it was not provided by KJ in his timeline for his days activities AT THE TIME?
IMO, because it's a big lie.

[ifIwereU]

IMO, because it's a big lie.

and because KJ was scrambling at the last minute becuase he knew that the other worker at the station said he wasn't there....

KJ was also relying on a different time of death...since, IMO, he tampered with the thermostat...in the beginning KJ didn't consider needing a reliable alibi because he was betting on a later TOD....where he had plenty of witnesses. when faced with a TOD around 11 he had to come up with something....and who do you call in time of need...FAMILY!! and Granny closes the gap!

[sweetgranny]

and because KJ was scrambling at the last minute becuase he knew that the other worker at the station said he wasn't there....

KJ was also relying on a different time of death...since, IMO, he tampered with the thermostat...in the beginning KJ didn't consider needing a reliable alibi because he was betting on a later TOD....where he had plenty of witnesses. when faced with a TOD around 11 he had to come up with something....and who do you call in time of need...FAMILY!! and Granny closes the gap!

Boy do I agree with this statemenet:beer:

[hawgustusgloop]

and because KJ was scrambling at the last minute becuase he knew that the other worker at the station said he wasn't there....

KJ was also relying on a different time of death...since, IMO, he tampered with the thermostat...in the beginning KJ didn't consider needing a reliable alibi because he was betting on a later TOD....where he had plenty of witnesses. when faced with a TOD around 11 he had to come up with something....and who do you call in time of need...FAMILY!! and Granny closes the gap!

I think this is why he was almost "over-alibied" (if there is such a thing) for virtually every second AFTER he would have arrived home from Nona's. Desperately over-alibied IMO.

[lorettalockhorn]

From what I have been reading, seems Grandma "gives" her grandson a lot of things...so, perhaps she also "gave" him an alibi? Maybe she thinks she needs to save her grandson above all else? I wonder how many scrapes Grandma and/or mom and dad have helped KJ out of?

but how come it was not provided by KJ in his timeline for his days activities AT THE TIME?

Well, there's the alleged abortion scrape. Sorry, bad pun.

I read somewhere in this thread that the Joneses had put queries into the neighbors' mailboxes (which is agains the law BTW), asking for people to call in if they had seen KJ that day. I think that they were every bit as interested in pinning down Kevin's alibi to the minute as LE was, it was a huge part of the Jones family conspiracy to wipe up after KJ. I also think that Grandma Jones didn't come forward until she had herself alibied. She probably would have had him at the station much earlier if she could have, but she simply couldn't due to her own activites. If Kevin had been at the station when Grandma claimed, he had plenty of time to clear that up with LE.

[ifIwereU]

Well, there's the alleged abortion scrape. Sorry, bad pun.

I read somewhere in this thread that the Joneses had put queries into the neighbors' mailboxes (which is agains the law BTW), asking for people to call in if they had seen KJ that day. I think that they were every bit as interested in pinning down Kevin's alibi to the minute as LE was, it was a huge part of the Jones family conspiracy to wipe up after KJ. I also think that Grandma Jones didn't come forward until she had herself alibied. She probably would have had him at the station much earlier if she could have, but she simply couldn't due to her own activites. If Kevin had been at the station when Grandma claimed, he had plenty of time to clear that up with LE.


does any one know if/when the Gran's story was provided to police, or when KJ provided it to police?

[SweetnSonny]

Hello from a lurker. I just wanted to pop in and say I am amazed and admire the web sleuthing going on in this forum. :)



:read:

[ifIwereU]

:seeya: Hello from a lurker. I just wanted to pop in and say I am amazed and admire the web sleuthing going on in this forum. :)



:read:


WELCOME SWEETNSONNY

[FDInLaw]

Hello from a lurker. I just wanted to pop in and say I am amazed and admire the web sleuthing going on in this forum. :)



:read: HOWDY, HOWDY! :seeya:

[CSOKC]

Hello from a lurker. I just wanted to pop in and say I am amazed and admire the web sleuthing going on in this forum. :)



:read:
Hello! From your reading, do you have any opinion on the case?

[lorettalockhorn]

does any one know if/when the Gran's story was provided to police, or when KJ provided it to police?

I don't think that any of us in here know. I have always assumed that it was last minute or didn't seem solid to LE. I wonder what time Grandma Jones herself arrived at the station. And why the jury believed her over Walters. I mean, in some way, shape or form, his testimony could be construed as having cost him his job.

[hawgustusgloop]

I don't think that any of us in here know. I have always assumed that it was last minute or didn't seem solid to LE. I wonder what time Grandma Jones herself arrived at the station. And why the jury believed her over Walters. I mean, in some way, shape or form, his testimony could be construed as having cost him his job.

Well, one juror seemed to believe Granny over Blake Walters because she seemed like a Christian, and therefore, could not lie. That same juror IMO appeared to find older people more credible than younger folks as well.

[CSOKC]

I don't think that any of us in here know. I have always assumed that it was last minute or didn't seem solid to LE. I wonder what time Grandma Jones herself arrived at the station. And why the jury believed her over Walters. I mean, in some way, shape or form, his testimony could be construed as having cost him his job.
Oh I completely agree. Walters would have no reason to lie, except for to maybe save his job or something. But instead, he told the truth. And for some reason the jury decided to believe the woman who had every reason to lie!

[ifIwereU]

Oh I completely agree. Walters would have no reason to lie, except for to maybe save his job or something. But instead, he told the truth. And for some reason the jury decided to believe the woman who had every reason to lie!
how about the show down between Al Frazier and his employee (mross) about when they left the house....why was frazier more creditable....there was a big descrepancy in what Frazier told police and what he told the court room....it is just beyond my comprehension...I guess Frazier looked more Christian that Mross....geesh!

[lorettalockhorn]

how about the show down between Al Frazier and his employee (mross) about when they left the house....why was frazier more creditable....there was a big descrepancy in what Frazier told police and what he told the court room....it is just beyond my comprehension...I guess Frazier looked more Christian that Mross....geesh!


Frazier being a pivotal witness is one of the reasons that the defense wanted a change of venue, IMO. He is fairly well known (having been in business for many years) and has a reputation as the town drunk. Since it is A-OK to have jurors with ties to witnesses in this case, the defense couldn't afford to have any Pope Countians hear his testimony.

BTW, did he backtrack on what he originally told LE? Give KJ less time?

[lorettalockhorn]

Oh I completely agree. Walters would have no reason to lie, except for to maybe save his job or something. But instead, he told the truth. And for some reason the jury decided to believe the woman who had every reason to lie!


I'm beginning to think that the day of the verdict was Opposite Day!

[ifIwereU]

Frazier being a pivotal witness is one of the reasons that the defense wanted a change of venue, IMO. He is fairly well known (having been in business for many years) and has a reputation as the town drunk. Since it is A-OK to have jurors with ties to witnesses in this case, the defense couldn't afford to have any Pope Countians hear his testimony.

BTW, did he backtrack on what he originally told LE? Give KJ less time?

frazier was trying to close the gap by saying he left the Jones house later than what he originally told LE...I'm trying to find a link to courier where it gives his testimony...bare with me

[oxfordwebster]

Hey guys, let's not forget that laughable testimony from the waitress who was able to pick out Kevin's *cash* order from receipts because "information was on the computers in the back."

Except, you know, nobody... especially not some craphole Dover restaurant, is storing customer information from cash payments for every order.

That was just another part of the giant load of crap they delivered for his alibi, and how it was bought into... :mad:

[LurkerNoMore]

Well, there's the alleged abortion scrape. Sorry, bad pun.

I read somewhere in this thread that the Joneses had put queries into the neighbors' mailboxes (which is agains the law BTW), asking for people to call in if they had seen KJ that day. I think that they were every bit as interested in pinning down Kevin's alibi to the minute as LE was, it was a huge part of the Jones family conspiracy to wipe up after KJ. I also think that Grandma Jones didn't come forward until she had herself alibied. She probably would have had him at the station much earlier if she could have, but she simply couldn't due to her own activites. If Kevin had been at the station when Grandma claimed, he had plenty of time to clear that up with LE.

We should all be so lucky as to have a family that strives to protects its members from bad things happening to them. The Jones family seems strong. Wouldn't you rally around your child?

[ifIwereU]

"Al Fraizer, co-owner of Arkansas Restoration in Russellville, said Hiram Jones, Jones’ father, asked him to take a look at the bathroom to estimate how much work would be needed to repair it. He also told the jury he is “good friends” with the Jones family.
He said he and Bobby Mross, one of his employees, picked up a key from Norma Tate Jones at the Jones’ gas station on the morning of Dec. 15 and went to the Jones house.
He testified he and Mross knocked on the door and “made noise” before attempting to enter the house. He said Kevin Jones, who looked like he had been asleep, opened the door for the men and returned to his room. Frazier estimated the time was about 9:50 a.m.
Deputy Prosecutor Jeff Phillips entered into evidence copies of photos taken at the Jones home by Frazier. Frazier said he takes photos to assist him when he prepares estimates, because he may visit “three or four jobs a day.”
The photos were time-stamped, and the last photo appeared to have been taken at 10:06 a.m.
Frazier said the water damage was more extensive than originally thought and he did a “walk-through” after he took the photos in order to “commit to memory” items in the affected rooms that would need to be moved.
He said after the walk-through, he and Mross went outside and he attempted to contact his partner for another 5-10 minutes.
“The latest time I would have been there was probably some time after 10:20,” Frazier said.
Phillips questioned him about a Feb. 8, 2006, statement he made to police in which he said he and Mross left “within five minutes” of taking the pictures. Frazier denied telling police this information and said what he probably meant was he spent 5-10 minutes going over the house in the walk-through.
He admitted he did not wear a watch and that he wasn’t keeping “minute” track of time on the job, which he usually does on a “quarter-hour basis.”
Mross took the stand next and contradicted Frazier’s version of events, telling jurors the men left soon after the photos were taken. He stated he did not know Jones or his family."

[ifIwereU]

We should all be so lucky as to have a family that strives to protects its children from bad things happening to them.

Bad kids don't need to be caudled

[lorettalockhorn]

Hey guys, let's not forget that laughable testimony from the waitress who was able to pick out Kevin's *cash* order from receipts because "information was on the computers in the back."

Except, you know, nobody... especially not some craphole Dover restaurant, is storing customer information from cash payments for every order.

That was just another part of the giant load of crap they delivered for his alibi, and how it was bought into... :mad:

Hadn't Mrs. Burton marked that on the cash register receipt? I guess KJ worked for them at one time and that's why they (the Burtons) seem so invested in his case?

[oxfordwebster]

We should all be so lucky as to have a family that strives to protects its members from bad things happening to them. The Jones family seems strong. Wouldn't you rally around your child?My kids would learn how to own up to their actions and not try to destroy more lives in an attempt to save their own ass.

[oxfordwebster]

Hadn't Mrs. Burton marked that on the cash register receipt? I guess KJ worked for them at one time and that's why they (the Burtons) seem so invested in his case?I'll have to go back and read it, but the whole thing sounded completely stupid like the rest of his alibi.

[lorettalockhorn]

We should all be so lucky as to have a family that strives to protects its members from bad things happening to them. The Jones family seems strong. Wouldn't you rally around your child?

Wouldn't building a strong character in their son be the best protection from bringing trouble to himself and family?

I would definitely rally around my child, but I wouldn't lie under oath for him. Nor would he ask me or expect me to.

[hawgustusgloop]

Oh I completely agree. Walters would have no reason to lie, except for to maybe save his job or something. But instead, he told the truth. And for some reason the jury decided to believe the woman who had every reason to lie!

I think that jury was very selective in who they believed. I almost think they just believed whom they wanted to, whether it made good sense or not. I think that if you go back and read the interviews with the three jurors who gave interviews (that I know of), it becomes apparent that they didn't just think that the prosecution did not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. They really thought he DIDN'T DO IT. I guess maybe if I suspend some common sense and reason I could see how they would come to a belief that the prosecution did not prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt, but I will never be able to understand how they could come to the conclusion that he is definitely innocent from the evidence presented at the trial.

[hawgustusgloop]

We should all be so lucky as to have a family that strives to protects its members from bad things happening to them. The Jones family seems strong. Wouldn't you rally around your child?

Yes, Kevin is so lucky to have such a tight network of enablers. It has made him the person he is today IMO.

[luv2groom]

Grandma did not buy him a new vehicle. That's a fact.