Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[upallnight]

IIRC, there was some guy named James Waldo who testified for the defense during that hearing. I wonder if they could be related? Maybe someone who has a local phone book could check the listings to see if they are listed as a couple? Who knows? Maybe Waldo is like "Smith" or "Jones" in that area. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

Either way, this lady seems like even more of a lunatic than that guy who wrote the other letter to the editor. I guess she has something against Carol and Duane Dipert expressing their personal opinions. Perhaps she has some personal anger toward them for which we don't understand the reasoning, so that's why this rambling letter doesn't make good sense to us? I didn't know he was PROVEN not guilty either. I just thought that was the verdict. It certainly wasn't proven to me, anyway. Of course, Kathy Waldo just stated it as "FACT," at the same time she is attempting to chastise the Courier for twisting facts and printing incredulous statements.



Off topic: I don't know if I have ever seen so many (sic)s inserted into so few sentences in my entire lifetime of avid reading.

Johnny Waldo was previous mayor of Dover, Bradley won the last election and is our current mayor. There are a few Waldo's between Dover and Russellville. Not saying this means anything I just know of the Waldo name in this area.

[upallnight]

IMO this is an unusual thing to say about a murder victim's grieving mother. I wonder what it means?

I agree. This Lurker person, I am not sure how to take that comment. Seems hateful, but not sure.

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm not talking about just the folks around town. I am a friend and my family is friends of the Jone's family. Now you do know of one who believes he is guilty of killing Nona. I am just going by the evidence I saw and heard in court. I do not feed on gossip, I really do not care if you or anyone else cares, you are nothing to me and never will be. I know Carol also and knew Nona. I can see the pain she is going through even when she smiles. And she was not charged for the murder of Nona so how could it even be close to the same. Kevin was charged with the murder of Nona and had her blood on his body and the lightbulb. The horrible person comment you made even with the biting sarcasm was a rude comment. Carol's daughter was murdered, so you not understand that? A smile from here is a wonderful thing, she has to go on now without Nona. I am sure the thought of Nona makes her smile, after all she has nothing to hide. I simply stated my opinion, I never said KJ was a horrible person, just stated my view. Both families are good people. As for you, I do not know you but I did go to the trial, did you? Or are you going by gossip? I am sure if you have a daughter and she was murdered plus the person you felt killed her was found not guilty and you believed that person was guilty, you may feel differently. We are all on the edges as you state. Only Nona and the murderer was there when she was killed. No One, not even KJ's or Nona's family was there. A jury of his peer's, ha! A jury, and we do not know nothing about them except they voted not guilty. We do know as reported some wanted to vote guilty eary on. Some wanted not guilty some wanted otherwise. Some can be talked into a verdict they may not believe to be true guilty or not guilty. Who knows if this is the case. Who knows if KJ killed Nona, I do not know, all I know is what my opinion is from the evidence I saw and hear with my own two eyes and ears. You can have yours and I (of course) can have mine. Show me different if you know different and I would love to believe KJ did not kill Nona. That would make my day. I am sure it would make Nona's families day if they could see justice for Nona! You are no different than I am, we do not know for sure who killed Nona, or atleast I do not. If you was there you do, but if not you do not know, even if someone told you something that is simply gossip. Again I feel so bad for both families. Now, any other questions or commets I can help you with?

Great post.

[LurkerNoMore]

Great post.

So you label the above "great" but when I ask why does grammar matter, you say Personally, I find it easier to read properly written prose (and poetry for that matter), not to mention that the author comes off as more rational when she/he takes the time to edit herself.

On the other hand, if the author thinks that her letter is well-written, when it is not, I just think she's a blithering idiot.

Why the standard for one and not the other? Because I think, by your definition, the above post (and the one before it) is both irrational and blithering. And that's using your standard, not mine.

[lorettalockhorn]

So you label the above "great" but when I ask why does grammar matter, you say Personally, I find it easier to read properly written prose (and poetry for that matter), not to mention that the author comes off as more rational when she/he takes the time to edit herself.

On the other hand, if the author thinks that her letter is well-written, when it is not, I just think she's a blithering idiot.

Why the standard for one and not the other? Because I think, by your definition, the above post (and the one before it) is both irrational and blithering. And that's using your standard, not mine.

This is what I said about that: It's downright ironic.

And I agree with what you say about writing for publication; extra caution is called for.

I consider this forum to be merely conversational. What upallnight had to say was heartfelt (from my interpretation) and quite touching. Don't know why you have a problem with that. Other than the fact that seem to have a lot of problems with a lot of what you see here.

[LurkerNoMore]

This is what I said about that:

I consider this forum to be merely conversational. What upallnight had to say was heartfelt (from my interpretation) and quite touching. Don't know why you have a problem with that. Other than the fact that seem to have a lot of problems with a lot of what you see here.

I do have problems with that I see here, which is why I decided to continue to participate. Someone's got to keep the back-patting, "great post," tunnel vision crew in check and at least challenge some of these statements. If it's me for a while, that's fine.

Now, back to the topic at hand, what if the letter to the editor was heartfelt? Would bad grammar be okay then?

I just see you swatting away opinions you don't agree with by any means necessary (grammar, references to God, etc), while failing to apply the same criteria to those with whom you do agree.

And while it's on my mind, the jury referencing God is right in tune with many of the posts on the Prayers for Nona thread. I am not critical of either. Simply pointing out another inconsistency. I bet you invoking God would have been A-okay had Kevin been found guilty. Just my opinion, of course.

[lorettalockhorn]

I do have problems with that I see here, which is why I decided to continue to participate. Someone's got to keep the back-patting, "great post," tunnel vision crew in check and at least challenge some of these statements. If it's me for a while, that's fine.

Now, back to the topic at hand, what if the letter to the editor was heartfelt? Would bad grammar be okay then?

I just see you swatting away opinions you don't agree with by any means necessary (grammar, references to God, etc), while failing to apply the same criteria to those with whom you do agree.

And while it's on my mind, the jury referencing God is right in tune with many of the posts on the Prayers for Nona thread. I am not critical of either. Simply pointing out another inconsistency. I bet you invoking God would have been A-okay had Kevin been found guilty. Just my opinion, of course.

LMAO at the thought of you or anyone else keeping anyone in check. Where were you all this time to monitor the board? Gagged much?

I just don't get why it's such a cause celebre what anyone else's opinion is.

I do think that if someone is going to write a letter to the editor for publication, that they ought to at least have someone else proofread the content for basic understanding, grammar, spelling, etc. Especially for The Courier, where their own staff doesn't seem capable.

As for the possibly tainted jury invoking God; to me that was just a way of making an excuse for a lame job. Or maybe to explain away how they were able to coerce those who originally voted guilty and/or were undecided. So glad that you don't have a problem with the prayer thread. :rolleyes: Don't see anyone crabbing about the KJ supporters and their prayers having been answered.

[hawgustusgloop]

I do have problems with that I see here, which is why I decided to continue to participate. Someone's got to keep the back-patting, "great post," tunnel vision crew in check and at least challenge some of these statements. If it's me for a while, that's fine.

Now, back to the topic at hand, what if the letter to the editor was heartfelt? Would bad grammar be okay then?

I just see you swatting away opinions you don't agree with by any means necessary (grammar, references to God, etc), while failing to apply the same criteria to those with whom you do agree.
And while it's on my mind, the jury referencing God is right in tune with many of the posts on the Prayers for Nona thread. I am not critical of either. Simply pointing out another inconsistency. I bet you invoking God would have been A-okay had Kevin been found guilty. Just my opinion, of course.

Absolutely incorrect. Since I am the one who brought up bad grammar in the first place, here was the post in which I did so:

"Well, it appears from that grammatical disaster of a letter that she really only takes issue with what she perceives as bias against K.Jo. I'm willing to bet she's just fine with publishing skewed statements that are favorable to K.Jo or even biased against Nona or her family."

If everyone will notice, I just used the words "grammatical disaster" to describe the letter. That had absolutely nothing to do with the point (in bold) I was making in response to Lorettalockhorn's post before it. Here was LurkerNoMore's response:

Why does grammar matter? Seriously. Or is it just a way to attack someone you disagree with?

LurkerNoMore, however, chose to address only that minor part of the post, rather than attack the logic of it, just like he or she is continuing to do. If anyone is swatting away opinions by using distractions and trying to derail the conversation, it is LurkerNoMore IMO.

I find Upallnight's posts to be sincere, and I appreciate his or her unique viewpoint. I thought upallnight's post was a great post as well. I have no problem reading them, and they seem pretty reasonable to me, unlike that rambling letter to the Courier. I am probably always going to make fun of any horribly written or illogical letters to the editor that weren't written by children or adults with developmental disabilities.

[hawgustusgloop]

Here is the link to the Courier's letters to the Editor if anyone is interested:
http://www.couriernews.com/letters.php

I am really struck by the fact that the letter's author rambles on and on about how unfair the Courier's coverage was, yet does not think to offer any specific examples of truth distortion or bias. I hope Mrs. Waldo didn't think this was a well-thought-out, well-written letter that would affect the minds and hearts of the Courier's readers and editors. Because if so, I, like lorettalockhorn, tend to put her in the "blithering idiot" category. All my opinion only.

[nobody]

I do not think that KJ should have been mentioned in the rape allegations - he was a bystander with no less guilt than the girl that kept opening the door and saying nothing. Printing information such as that is inappropriate and could have led to bias judgement and false imprisonment.
I do believe the Courier gave equal opportunity to the Jones family to speak their side - but they wisely chose not to. All they had to do is give reasonable doubt.

after-thought...I would be curious to what led Jone's father to slam a chair into the police station wall.

[oxfordwebster]

after-thought...I would be curious to what led Jone's father to slam a chair into the police station wall.I bet makes some wonder if that violent temper traveled from father to son, eh?

:o

[upallnight]

Why does grammar matter? Seriously. Or is it just a way to attack someone you disagree with?


Lurker, I just wanted to say to you I do not think attacks have been made on people that disagree with others. Not in Loretta's case or Hawg's and some others anyway. I do think people are trying to understand what happened even though we may never know. This forum is one way of doing that. Together people can help each other through so many things. We should be able to agree to disagree. That's ok, but we are all human and do make mistakes. I know my grammar does not always come out right but then again, I am not a professional reporting on anything. I do think it makes a difference if you are a reporter or you have something written that will be published. As for Loretta being A OK with it if KJ was found guilty. This is where I disagree with you. I do not think out of anything I have read that Loretta has stated that or attacked anyone. She seems to have researched this case to the best of her ability with what information she can get her eyes on. She seems open and honest and I for one have enjoyed her posts. I do not mean to attack you if you feel I have. I mean no harm to anyone. If you are from Dover you must understand how hard this is on so many people. To know both Nona and Kevin and some of their family and to see them all go through this has been to say it lightly*** a nightmare. It has been so hard to speak when you see any of them without emotions over coming you. I feel time will help that, it has already to a point but it is and always will be there in the back of so many minds. It's so hard, and it is human nature to want to know the truth and have compassion for those this terrible thing has hurt so many people. Again, I just want justice for Nona and I sure do not want anyone else hurt or killed. I in no way want Kevin to suffer for what someone else may have done. I do want someone to have to suffer for it though and I want it to be the true killer, whom ever it may be. As for where God comes in to it, he knows who killed Nona and he is the final judge. I am simply one person trying to sort this out along with children that knew both Nona and Kevin. Nona was a very sweet girl, she had alot to offer this world in so many good ways. In her short life she touched many, one of them was our family she touched on one special day in our life, her voice rang out as she was singing, her smile was true and warm as was she as a person in whole. That is my fondest memory of Nona. I can say the same about Janice Jones, she is a sweet sweet woman, I know she would help anyone she could help. I hate the fact she and her family has been through so much. Janice is an upfront honest person IMO. She loves Nona and she loves her son. I do not know what happen that day Nona was killed, I wish I did because I care about both families. I do not wish to upset anyone in the process of talking about it. You may know them I do not know, if you do know them or some of the families involved and are friends with them I know it is hard. I may pop in to view some posts but for now work and family is busy and I think I need a change of venue myself. I have enjoyed the posts on this forum as sad as the topic is. It has helped me work through some hard days and nights. I wish you all the best life can bring you. I am off to spend time with my family and friends even if it is just a simple I love you because I want them to know that.

[nobody]

Of course we will never see true justice for Nona - but I don't see how a civil trial would be good for anyone either.
Say this goes to the next level of accusing KJ:
If the punishment is monetary - surely her parents are not interested in that aspect, unless it were to go to one of Nona's charities/scholarship fund.
I would only see it as dirty money until it went to a just cause.

That's just saying if they go to trial again and all evidence sits the same.

[lorettalockhorn]

I do not think that KJ should have been mentioned in the rape allegations - he was a bystander with no less guilt than the girl that kept opening the door and saying nothing. Printing information such as that is inappropriate and could have led to bias judgement and false imprisonment.
I do believe the Courier gave equal opportunity to the Jones family to speak their side - but they wisely chose not to. All they had to do is give reasonable doubt.

after-thought...I would be curious to what led Jone's father to slam a chair into the police station wall.

Not sure what you mean by false imprisonment. Isn't that a term usually associated with kidnapping? Holding someone against his/her will?

I'm glad that The Courier published the information. The public has every right to know that a man who is under indictment and out on bond is participating in drinking (against the terms of his release), the providing of alcohol to minors, possible drug use and deviant sexual behavior. (These kids sound like a sorry bunch to me.) I'd kick My Little Love's ass up between his shoulder blades if he acted this way, whether charged with a crime or not.

[lorettalockhorn]

Lurker, I just wanted to say to you I do not think attacks have been made on people that disagree with others. Not in Loretta's case or Hawg's and some others anyway. I do think people are trying to understand what happened even though we may never know. This forum is one way of doing that. Together people can help each other through so many things. We should be able to agree to disagree. That's ok, but we are all human and do make mistakes. I know my grammar does not always come out right but then again, I am not a professional reporting on anything. I do think it makes a difference if you are a reporter or you have something written that will be published. As for Loretta being A OK with it if KJ was found guilty. This is where I disagree with you. I do not think out of anything I have read that Loretta has stated that or attacked anyone. She seems to have researched this case to the best of her ability with what information she can get her eyes on. She seems open and honest and I for one have enjoyed her posts. I do not mean to attack you if you feel I have. I mean no harm to anyone. If you are from Dover you must understand how hard this is on so many people. To know both Nona and Kevin and some of their family and to see them all go through this has been to say it lightly*** a nightmare. It has been so hard to speak when you see any of them without emotions over coming you. I feel time will help that, it has already to a point but it is and always will be there in the back of so many minds. It's so hard, and it is human nature to want to know the truth and have compassion for those this terrible thing has hurt so many people. Again, I just want justice for Nona and I sure do not want anyone else hurt or killed. I in no way want Kevin to suffer for what someone else may have done. I do want someone to have to suffer for it though and I want it to be the true killer, whom ever it may be. As for where God comes in to it, he knows who killed Nona and he is the final judge. I am simply one person trying to sort this out along with children that knew both Nona and Kevin. Nona was a very sweet girl, she had alot to offer this world in so many good ways. In her short life she touched many, one of them was our family she touched on one special day in our life, her voice rang out as she was singing, her smile was true and warm as was she as a person in whole. That is my fondest memory of Nona. I can say the same about Janice Jones, she is a sweet sweet woman, I know she would help anyone she could help. I hate the fact she and her family has been through so much. Janice is an upfront honest person IMO. She loves Nona and she loves her son. I do not know what happen that day Nona was killed, I wish I did because I care about both families. I do not wish to upset anyone in the process of talking about it. You may know them I do not know, if you do know them or some of the families involved and are friends with them I know it is hard. I may pop in to view some posts but for now work and family is busy and I think I need a change of venue myself. I have enjoyed the posts on this forum as sad as the topic is. It has helped me work through some hard days and nights. I wish you all the best life can bring you. I am off to spend time with my family and friends even if it is just a simple I love you because I want them to know that.

Once again, I'm touched not only by what I perceive to be your sincerity, but the fact that you have the ability to reach out to both "sides" of this situation. I think that most of us can only begin to imagine the emotional strain that Nona's murder has put many people under.

I've enjoyed your posts! :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

Of course we will never see true justice for Nona - but I don't see how a civil trial would be good for anyone either.
Say this goes to the next level of accusing KJ:
If the punishment is monetary - surely her parents are not interested in that aspect, unless it were to go to one of Nona's charities/scholarship fund.
I would only see it as dirty money until it went to a just cause.

That's just saying if they go to trial again and all evidence sits the same.


I think that a civil trial would give us the opportunity to see the case presented in a better manner. I for one, was truly disappointed and completely shocked with the way that Gibbons allowed Nona to be put on trial and that he acquiesced to not having KJ's character put forth in a true light (with regard to his drug use and philandering). The lies that Kevin told were on tape but somehow escaped the faculties of the jury.

It's not for any of us to judge what is good for Nona's family or speculate about what would be beneficial to them or what is dirty money or how it should be spent.

[nobody]

Not sure what you mean by false imprisonment. Isn't that a term usually associated with kidnapping? Holding someone against his/her will?



You're right. I should have said Wrongful Imprisonment or Wrongfully Convicted/Innocent in Prison. Sorry for the confusion.

[ifIwereU]

I have followed the posts in this forum for quite some time but have never had much to say. I would, however, like to know if ANY of you were working for a police agency in this area and were tasked with taking on the investigation as it stands now, what would be your next logical step? Is there "a next logical step?" It seems to me that while KJ was found not guilty he has also insured that no one and I mean no one would ever be found guilty of the crime by completely contaminating the crime scene. Contamination to the point that even if someone else's (York or otherwise) DNA is found to be on the condom wrapper it pales in comparison to a fingerprint or palm print in Nona's blood. JMO

[LurkerNoMore]

I have followed the posts in this forum for quite some time but have never had much to say. I would, however, like to know if ANY of you were working for a police agency in this area and were tasked with taking on the investigation as it stands now, what would be your next logical step? Is there "a next logical step?" It seems to me that while KJ was found not guilty he has also insured that no one and I mean no one would ever be found guilty of the crime by completely contaminating the crime scene. Contamination to the point that even if someone else's (York or otherwise) DNA is found to be on the condom wrapper it pales in comparison to a fingerprint or palm print in Nona's blood. JMO

Yes. Kevin the criminal genius who knew exactly how to contaminate the crime scene to the point of near perfection but who left an obvious palm print on the murder weapon. Makes complete sense.

[Gaiar]

I don't see Kevin as being a criminal genius. I haven't really been following and theres to many posts to read before I go to class. The thing is though the hand print in the blood in itself could of just been "dumb luck" I don't remember who exactly found Nora, but if Kevin was one of them. His hand print could of gotten in the blood seeing if she was still alive. If she was on the floor he might of leaned down to her level with his one hand in the blood to stable himself while he checked for a pulse with his other hand. Though this is of course speculation.

[nobody]

Former ATU professor under federal indictment

Snow summoned to appear for arraignment Tuesday; no word yet on plea
By Mary Kincy Benefield
Reporter

A former Arkansas Tech University chemistry professor arrested in conjunction with a Russellville Police Department online sting operation designed to catch Internet predators has been indicted in federal court.
5th Judicial District Prosecuting Attorney David Gibbons said Tuesday afternoon he declined to continue prosecution of Albert Snow in Pope County Circuit Court — where Snow was charged with Internet stalking of a child — after federal prosecutors notified him they planned to pursue the case in U.S. District Court.
Snow, 33, who was to stand trial Oct. 9, was arrested Jan. 3 after he arranged during a sexually explicit online chat to meet with a girl he thought to be 15 years old at an apartment, according to a motion filed in Circuit Court. That “girl” was actually an undercover police officer, RPD Det. Steve Barker told The Courier in January.
Snow, an assistant chemistry professor, was placed on suspension after his arrest. He resigned from the university Jan. 5.
According to a Courier article published Jan. 5, Barker said the alleged Internet “chats” between Snow and the undercover officer occured both at Snow’s home and on the ATU campus.
Snow had been a professor at Tech for about the past 18 months and reportedly graduated from Tech, Barker said at the time.
A summons filed Aug. 8 in U.S. District Court required Snow to appear at 10 a.m. Tuesday in Little Rock to answer an indictment charging him with a violation of Title 18, Section 2422(b) of United States Code, which stipulates “whoever, using the mail or any facility or means of interstate or foreign commerce ... knowingly persuades, induces, entices or coerces any individual who has not attained the age of 18 years to engage in prostitution or any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not less than 5 years and not more than 30 years.”
No further information on Snow’s federal arraignment was available as of press time.
“We want to work well with the federal people, and if they want to take over prosecution, we’re more than happy to let them do it,” Gibbons said, adding that, as a general rule, federal parole guidelines are less lenient than those mandated by the state, meaning defendants convicted in federal court and, as a result, serving time in federal prison, are likely to remain in prison longer than they would were they to be tried in a county’s circuit court.

Reference: http://www.couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15856

There is a good chance this person could have seen Nona during this semester. He is obviously a rotten apple. She was on the internet prior to her death. This person is being tried as a sexual predator - however, maybe his fantasies go darker than that. (Keeping all possibilities open...)

[lorettalockhorn]

You're right. I should have said Wrongful Imprisonment or Wrongfully Convicted/Innocent in Prison. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks for clearing that up for me; I wasn't sure if you were saying that KJ had been held against his will that night. I would consider dosing someone with a date rape type drug to be a form of false imprisonment if that is what happened. You know, it's just too bad that this young woman waited to report this incident. Going to LE would have gone a long way toward clearing up whatever happened.

Not sure whether or not Snow would be interested in a woman as developed and sophisticated looking as Nona if fifteen year olds are his bag. Of course, nowadays, fifteen years old are/can be pretty mature looking.

I did find that Snow graduated from ATU in '97 and OU in '99 and '02 and came to Tech sometime in '05. Wasn't there another prof who left in a cloud of shame while Nona was a student; Gadberry?

Wouldn't it be easier to list people who aren't suspects, than those who are at this point?

[optimumprimal78]

Former ATU professor under federal indictment

Snow summoned to appear for arraignment Tuesday; no word yet on plea
By Mary Kincy Benefield
Reporter

A former Arkansas Tech University chemistry professor arrested in conjunction with a Russellville Police Department online sting operation designed to catch Internet predators has been indicted in federal court.
5th Judicial District Prosecuting Attorney David Gibbons said Tuesday afternoon he declined to continue prosecution of Albert Snow in Pope County Circuit Court — where Snow was charged with Internet stalking of a child — after federal prosecutors notified him they planned to pursue the case in U.S. District Court.
Snow, 33, who was to stand trial Oct. 9, was arrested Jan. 3 after he arranged during a sexually explicit online chat to meet with a girl he thought to be 15 years old at an apartment, according to a motion filed in Circuit Court. That “girl” was actually an undercover police officer, RPD Det. Steve Barker told The Courier in January.
Snow, an assistant chemistry professor, was placed on suspension after his arrest. He resigned from the university Jan. 5.
According to a Courier article published Jan. 5, Barker said the alleged Internet “chats” between Snow and the undercover officer occured both at Snow’s home and on the ATU campus.
Snow had been a professor at Tech for about the past 18 months and reportedly graduated from Tech, Barker said at the time.
A summons filed Aug. 8 in U.S. District Court required Snow to appear at 10 a.m. Tuesday in Little Rock to answer an indictment charging him with a violation of Title 18, Section 2422(b) of United States Code, which stipulates “whoever, using the mail or any facility or means of interstate or foreign commerce ... knowingly persuades, induces, entices or coerces any individual who has not attained the age of 18 years to engage in prostitution or any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not less than 5 years and not more than 30 years.”
No further information on Snow’s federal arraignment was available as of press time.
“We want to work well with the federal people, and if they want to take over prosecution, we’re more than happy to let them do it,” Gibbons said, adding that, as a general rule, federal parole guidelines are less lenient than those mandated by the state, meaning defendants convicted in federal court and, as a result, serving time in federal prison, are likely to remain in prison longer than they would were they to be tried in a county’s circuit court.

Reference: http://www.couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15856

There is a good chance this person could have seen Nona during this semester. He is obviously a rotten apple. She was on the internet prior to her death. This person is being tried as a sexual predator - however, maybe his fantasies go darker than that. (Keeping all possibilities open...)

At this point it could be anyone. I agree that this is also a sick individual but I am not sure what Nona's class schedule was. I think it has been mentioned on here before but I don't recall ever hearing about a science class. I wonder if she did have him for a class that semester or any previous semester.

[hawgustusgloop]

At this point it could be anyone. I agree that this is also a sick individual but I am not sure what Nona's class schedule was. I think it has been mentioned on here before but I don't recall ever hearing about a science class. I wonder if she did have him for a class that semester or any previous semester.

My math could be off here, but from the article it seems he was arrested this year, 2007, and had been a professor for about 18 months. So, it sounds like Fall of 2005 may have been his first semester? Nona was taking biology, applied voice, choir, and class piano that we know of that semester, and I'm sure she had a few other classes. However, I do not know of many music majors who take chemistry.

[nobody]

Nona was taking biology, applied voice, choir, and class piano that we know of that semester, and I'm sure she had a few other classes. However, I do not know of many music majors who take chemistry.

Biology and Chemistry are in the same building and not far apart - especially if you are only an assistant professor who might aid other professors in task such as grading, loaning cell phones, stalking, etc. He is definitely a new suspect in my book.
I still have hope - hope that more interviews are happening.

[lorettalockhorn]

Biology and Chemistry are in the same building and not far apart - especially if you are only an assistant professor who might aid other professors in task such as grading, loaning cell phones, stalking, etc. He is definitely a new suspect in my book.
I still have hope - hope that more interviews are happening.
So what's the lowdown on this pedophile? He was stalking Nona and interested in her because she had access to young girls through the Little program? She wouldn't **** for him, so he killed her?

hmmm okay, we can't say ****, how about procure?

[TJEddie]

Shooting from the hip here, but I believe (as apparently the police do) that this murder was personal. My bet is the perpetrator can be found in Nona's cell phone and/or email records. Like nobody, my hope is that more interviews are happening.....and that maybe somebody is digging a little deeper this time around.

[hawgustusgloop]

Shooting from the hip here, but I believe (as apparently the police do) that this murder was personal. My bet is the perpetrator can be found in Nona's cell phone and/or email records. Like nobody, my hope is that more interviews are happening.....and that maybe somebody is digging a little deeper this time around.

So, if the murder was personal, and all the people in Nona's personal life except for one have alibis, what does that mean?

[ifIwereU]

I never referred to him as a criminal genius. My observations are simply that if he had done the right thing...when he found his girlfriend DEAD....which she clearly was and he knew that....to not touch anything and get the heck outta there! But it seems to me that most criminals know or suspect that they leave something behind and when in doubt...be the first to get there so you have a logical explaination as to why your prints are on her and what ever else he/she might not have remembering touching during the act itself. IMO KJ went to NOna's apartment with the intentions of fumbling over her to have an "out" if anything at the crime scene pointed to him. Yes. Kevin the criminal genius who knew exactly how to contaminate the crime scene to the point of near perfection but who left an obvious palm print on the murder weapon. Makes complete sense.

[LurkerNoMore]

So, if the murder was personal, and all the people in Nona's personal life except for one have alibis, what does that mean?

I don't believe this to be the case. Yes, the police/State may say this, but what else would they say?

Heckuva job, Frostie.

Were these alibis dissected?

Double checked?

Or were they just taken at face value, since they "had their man," so to speak.

[LurkerNoMore]

I never referred to him as a criminal genius. My observations are simply that if he had done the right thing...when he found his girlfriend DEAD....which she clearly was and he knew that....to not touch anything and get the heck outta there! But it seems to me that most criminals know or suspect that they leave something behind and when in doubt...be the first to get there so you have a logical explaination as to why your prints are on her and what ever else he/she might not have remembering touching during the act itself. IMO KJ went to NOna's apartment with the intentions of fumbling over her to have an "out" if anything at the crime scene pointed to him.

I think "the right thing" is very easy to dictate after the fact. But it's hard to do "the right thing" when you are hysterical. If one find a loved one in a pool of blood, who knows?

[TJEddie]

Someone refresh my memory here.....wasn't it reported that Kevin called the Diperts at some point during the day of the 15th, letting them know that he hadn't been able to reach Nona?

[hawgustusgloop]

I don't believe this to be the case. Yes, the police/State may say this, but what else would they say?

Heckuva job, Frostie.

Were these alibis dissected?

Double checked?

Or were they just taken at face value, since they "had their man," so to speak.

I did not state that as a fact of where the investigation is right now. I do not have access to the case file to be able to state that definitively. That is why I used the conditional word if. So I guess I will restate it, hopefully more plainly. Let's say the police exhaustively re-examine all of the people in Nona's life who could possibly have committed this crime. Let's say every one of those people has a solid alibi for the time of Nona's murder. Everyone except K.Jo. Then what?

[nobody]

Someone refresh my memory here.....wasn't it reported that Kevin called the Diperts at some point during the day of the 15th, letting them know that he hadn't been able to reach Nona?

Kevin's Testimony

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He did mention stick in sliding door, said she always kept the door blocked closed with something, indicating not always neccessarily a stick. Knocked rang on door, no answer, was HOPING she was in shower or something but feared something was wrong. Stated they talked or text frequently, and Nona hardly ever not answered the phone, and if she did called him back immediately. He stated that was why he was so concerned about her not answering her phone-- highly unusual for them to not talk for 8 hours and especially for her not to answer her phone. He had tried to call Nona's mom earlier to see if she had heard from Nona. Couldn't reach her, so called Duane and was told Carol was at work and he hadn't heard from Nona all day. He also thought this odd. He stated he didn't know if she had finals that day or not. As we all know entrance was through sliding door. Vertical blinds were pulled to but had been left open and is how he saw body. Pulled on door and felt it had some give, so he yanked it open. Sounded as if it came open fairly easy.

He stated once in upon discovery, his mom became hysterical but told him to lay on her body for warmth. He mentioned an attempt at resucitation because she wasn't breathing, but her lips were cold and stiff. Stated he kept trying to talk to her.

Reference: Page 101, Post#4004

It does seem like that phone call would have raised suspicion/concern for DD - did he ever try to call Nona?

[TJEddie]

Thanks, nobody. So why would Kevin call the Diperts, presumably knowing they had a key to Nona's apartment, and thus run the risk of having them discover the body before he had a chance to "contaminate the scene?"

[nobody]

I wish we had the times of those calls.

Of course, Carol would not have been too receptive of Kevin's call since she had been hoping Nona would stop dating him. She probably would have written it off as another break-up.

[LurkerNoMore]

Thanks, nobody. So why would Kevin call the Diperts, presumably knowing they had a key to Nona's apartment, and thus run the risk of having them discover the body before he had a chance to "contaminate the scene?"

Great point!

[lorettalockhorn]

Kevin's Testimony

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He did mention stick in sliding door, said she always kept the door blocked closed with something, indicating not always neccessarily a stick. Knocked rang on door, no answer, was HOPING she was in shower or something but feared something was wrong. Stated they talked or text frequently, and Nona hardly ever not answered the phone, and if she did called him back immediately. He stated that was why he was so concerned about her not answering her phone-- highly unusual for them to not talk for 8 hours and especially for her not to answer her phone. He had tried to call Nona's mom earlier to see if she had heard from Nona. Couldn't reach her, so called Duane and was told Carol was at work and he hadn't heard from Nona all day. He also thought this odd. He stated he didn't know if she had finals that day or not. As we all know entrance was through sliding door. Vertical blinds were pulled to but had been left open and is how he saw body. Pulled on door and felt it had some give, so he yanked it open. Sounded as if it came open fairly easy.

He stated once in upon discovery, his mom became hysterical but told him to lay on her body for warmth. He mentioned an attempt at resucitation because she wasn't breathing, but her lips were cold and stiff. Stated he kept trying to talk to her.

Reference: Page 101, Post#4004

It does seem like that phone call would have raised suspicion/concern for DD - did he ever try to call Nona?


Do we know what time KJ called the Diperts? I don't remember it being discussed during the testimony about his phone records and of course, Duane didn't testify. I don't remember him mentioning the phone call in any newspaper articles either. (Maybe KJ called Nona from home and there was no cell record. Wonder if LE ever looked at the Jones residential records.) If Carol was aware that Nona was answering, would she have thought that Nona was just dodging his call? Or maybe the Diperts knew that Nona had a test at two and a date with her Little and didn't find it odd that Nona was too busy to take a call from Kevin.

Poor Kevin had to contrive "finding" Nona's body when Duane didn't take the bait and do it for him.

Drat that bloody print. Oh well, doesn't matter. It went way over the heads of the possibly tainted jury.

[TJEddie]

Poor Kevin had to contrive "finding" Nona's body when Duane didn't take the bait and do it for him.

I thought the story was that Kevin preplanned finding the body himself so that he could contaminate the crime scene.

[ifIwereU]

I think "the right thing" is very easy to dictate after the fact. But it's hard to do "the right thing" when you are hysterical. If one find a loved one in a pool of blood, who knows?didn't sound to hysterical on the 911 tape....as opposed to his mother who seemed to lose all composure, JMO I had heard (rumor) that an RPD detective was to testify that KJ apologized to him for contaminating the crime scene and that he should have known better because he had a family friend that found a member of his family murdered and his friend had contaminated the crime and the murder was never solved. I also heard the presiding judge at trial wouldn't allow his testimony because it was "prejudicial" If you are close to KJ maybe you could get clarification on that....if he actually said it and if so who was he referring to.

[ifIwereU]

Great point! it was my understanding at the trial that KJ only called DD at his mother's urging while enroute to the school function....

[ifIwereU]

Thanks, nobody. So why would Kevin call the Diperts, presumably knowing they had a key to Nona's apartment, and thus run the risk of having them discover the body before he had a chance to "contaminate the scene?" it was my understanding that Kevin only called DD at his mother's urging....while enroute to the school function!

[hawgustusgloop]

Kevin's Testimony

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He did mention stick in sliding door, said she always kept the door blocked closed with something, indicating not always neccessarily a stick. Knocked rang on door, no answer, was HOPING she was in shower or something but feared something was wrong. Stated they talked or text frequently, and Nona hardly ever not answered the phone, and if she did called him back immediately. He stated that was why he was so concerned about her not answering her phone-- highly unusual for them to not talk for 8 hours and especially for her not to answer her phone. He had tried to call Nona's mom earlier to see if she had heard from Nona. Couldn't reach her, so called Duane and was told Carol was at work and he hadn't heard from Nona all day. He also thought this odd. He stated he didn't know if she had finals that day or not. As we all know entrance was through sliding door. Vertical blinds were pulled to but had been left open and is how he saw body. Pulled on door and felt it had some give, so he yanked it open. Sounded as if it came open fairly easy.

He stated once in upon discovery, his mom became hysterical but told him to lay on her body for warmth. He mentioned an attempt at resucitation because she wasn't breathing, but her lips were cold and stiff. Stated he kept trying to talk to her.

Reference: Page 101, Post#4004

It does seem like that phone call would have raised suspicion/concern for DD - did he ever try to call Nona?

I'm not so sure I'd refer to this as "Kevin's Testimony," since he didn't take the stand at trial. Also, I am glad I went back and looked at the source of this "information." It was posted by SusieQ, whose accounts of the trial IMO should be taken with a ten-pound brick of salt.

[ifIwereU]

Shooting from the hip here, but I believe (as apparently the police do) that this murder was personal. My bet is the perpetrator can be found in Nona's cell phone and/or email records. Like nobody, my hope is that more interviews are happening.....and that maybe somebody is digging a little deeper this time around. Anger is love disappointed.....

[nobody]

When asked why he had requested the phone, Dipert said, “I’m a cheapskate. I’m frugal. I had an old cell phone, and Carol had a contract with two phones [one being Dirksmeyer’s]. We did ask if we could have some of Nona’s things back, cell phone included.”

Dipert said Russellville Police Detective Mark Frost said it was at the crime lab when he first asked for it.
“Several weeks later, I asked again and repeatedly said, ‘If you got everything off of it, we would like to have it back.’ I said that several times. I eventually got it back, put my numbers in it and then they asked for it, and that is the story of the phone.”

“One day, I asked Frost why I hadn’t been questioned as a suspect,” he said. “ I mean, I’m retired. I have free time during the day, and I had access to Nona’s apartment.”
Dipert said Frost told him, “Through the course of the investigation, we talked to people and we didn’t consideryou to be a suspect.”

Reference: http://www.couriernews.com/archivedstory.php?ID=15766

[hawgustusgloop]

It was testified to that he called the Dipert's house, spoke with Mr. Dipert and was told Nona's mom was at work.

So, what did he claim to have said? Did he tell Mr. Dipert he was super worried about Nona and wondered if he had seen or talked to her? What time did K.Jo claim to have made the call? Did he notify Mr. Dipert that if he didn't hear from Nona that he intended to break into her apartment?

I would love to know more about this, especially whether or not the call was actually made, and if so, what was said.


I am sorry I can not remember the answers to all you are asking. What I do remember- it was prior to them going to the apartment, he did speak to Mr. Dipert who said he had not seen Nona and Jones was told Nona's mom was at work.

I wish we knew for sure what time the call was made.

[lorettalockhorn]

it was my understanding that Kevin only called DD at his mother's urging....while enroute to the school function!

Oh okay, then. So if the Diperts were aware of Nona's schedule, they might have assumed that she was having dinner at that hour with her Little and not been alarmed. I'll bet KJ was sweating bullets by that time.

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm not so sure I'd refer to this as "Kevin's Testimony," since he didn't take the stand at trial. Also, I am glad I went back and looked at the source of this "information." It was posted by SusieQ, whose accounts of the trial IMO should be taken with a ten-pound brick of salt.

Good call Hawg. It's such a pain for a slacker like me to go back and research a post by page and post number since nobody will not simply quote the post.

I had a tough time deciphering the courtroom reports as well as deciding what was believeable and unbiased when reported by Susie; I wonder what she thinks of The Courier's reporting?

[TJEddie]

it was my understanding at the trial that KJ only called DD at his mother's urging while enroute to the school function....

Thanks, ifIwereU.....I take it you were at the trial. Do you recall who testified to this and in what context?

[FDInLaw]

I wish we knew for sure what time the call was made.
(6:25 p.m. ;) )

[hawgustusgloop]

(6:25 p.m. ;) )

Wow, if that is the case, you'd think K.Jo would have given Mr. Dipert a heads-up that he was about to break into his step-daughter's apartment if she didn't answer the door. Better yet, why not ask Duane Dipert if he had his and Carol's copy of Nona's key to bring to her apartment?

So, if K.Jo called DD at 6:25, and the 911 call came in at 6:30, does that mean he called DD AFTER he asked RW to check on Nona? Why wouldn't he just call and ask them if they'd heard from her before sending his buddy to knock on her door?

[lorettalockhorn]

Wow, if that is the case, you'd think K.Jo would have given Mr. Dipert a heads-up that he was about to break into his step-daughter's apartment if she didn't answer the door. Better yet, why not ask Duane Dipert if he had his and Carol's copy of Nona's key to bring to her apartment?

So, if K.Jo called DD at 6:25, and the 911 call came in at 6:30, does that mean he called DD AFTER he asked RW to check on Nona? Why wouldn't he just call and ask them if they'd heard from her before sending his buddy to knock on her door?

Yeah, what you said. Did he even tell Duane that he was on his way over there? I mean, by 6:25, he would have practically been at her front door. So he was worried all day but he didn't call until right before he found her; yet the Little was calling for a couple of hours over and over. Verrrry interestink. *strokes beard*

[oxfordwebster]

Kevin has a very legitimate case of good character and how dare any of you think his concern wasn't real just because he didn't show any at all and just made it all up and...

GOOD CHRISTIAN KIDS AND OLD PEOPLE CANNOT LIE

[LurkerNoMore]

Kevin has a very legitimate case of good character and how dare any of you think his concern wasn't real just because he didn't show any at all and just made it all up and...

GOOD CHRISTIAN KIDS AND OLD PEOPLE CANNOT LIE

GREAT POST!

[oxfordwebster]

GREAT POST!I know, thanks sweetheart :)

[hawgustusgloop]

GREAT POST!

I agree with your comment that it was a great post! Especially the part about K.Jo showing no concern at all and the part about him just making it all up.

[nobody]

That would go along with what DD and the prosecution wanted to believe...since they were determined of a suspect less than a week later - before everyone was interviewed - to include DD. Oh wait, they did not even plan on interviewing DD - even though he is immediate family.
Great post though - yae for repetitive Sarcasm. (?)

Now to mention that the EMT and RPD on scene both described KJ in a hysteria.

About the concern call,
Soon-to-be Father-in-laws can be intimidating. That conversation might not have been completely true to perception. I'm still suprised that DD didn't follow-up the call.

The 911 call,
Who would not sound calm, compared to their mom, in that situation?

[ifIwereU]

Thanks, ifIwereU.....I take it you were at the trial. Do you recall who testified to this and in what context?
I believe it was in his video taped statement they showed

[oxfordwebster]

About the concern call,
Soon-to-be Father-in-laws can be intimidating. That conversation might not have been completely true to perception. I'm still suprised that DD didn't follow-up the call.Considering that Kevin didn't call him until he was "discovering" Nona, I don't think DD had a bloody chance to follow up on it in the first place.

[lorettalockhorn]

Considering that Kevin didn't call him until he was "discovering" Nona, I don't think DD had a bloody chance to follow up on it in the first place.

If KJ told Duane that he was very nearby (like in the parking lot for instance, and omitted that he was going to break in), why would Duane feel the need to come over?

I wonder what time the Diperts were notified of the murder. I wonder if they wonder why if KJ was so dadgummed worried all day, he took so long to call. Just think, since Kevin has figuratively credited himself with saving Nona's life, he might have been literally able to.

[whiterivergal]

Was a polygraph ever administered to kevin? Just wondering.

[hawgustusgloop]

Was a polygraph ever administered to kevin? Just wondering.

I am not sure if it has been definitively stated that he was given a polygraph, but the police have said that polygraphs were administered and that one person failed. There has been a lot of debate here about him passing or failing. Decide for yourself whom to believe, but I tend to think he failed:


>snip; referring to Kevin Jones<
The authorities said that he failed his polygraph. The newspaper would not print the results because of ethical liabilities.



Kevin failed the polygraph, but there has not been an "official" statement made by the press regarding this and I certainly don't expect you to take my word for it.

:seeya:

I had just heard that he was NOT the one that failed it. I mean either way, polygraphs aren't admissable in court. So, the fact that it is on the evidence list does not merely suggest he failed it to me. :shrug:

[christina]

Was a polygraph ever administered to kevin? Just wondering.

Jones was asked to take a polygraph after several hours of being interviewed by the police. It was his second interview with police. It was the night of the visitation. He said yes. The officer who adminstered the test was brand new, it was only his second or third test. Jones failed according to the officer.
York was asked to take one as well but declined.

[hawgustusgloop]

>snip<
I'm still suprised that DD didn't follow-up the call.



If it is true that K.Jo didn't call DD until 6:25 and the 911 call was made at 6:30, then that doesn't leave much time for following up. IIRC, the things K.Jo claimed to have learned from that phone call was that DD hadn't talked to Nona and that Carol was at work. That certainly doesn't sound like he called Mr. Dipert and said something like, "I am really, really getting worried about Nona. Have you or Mrs. Dipert heard from her? I have been trying to call her for hours and she hasn't returned my calls like she always does. Did she have some plans for today that I wasn't aware of? I sent Ryan over there and he said her car was there but that she didn't answer the door! Do you have the key to Nona's apartment so we can all check on her real quick? My mom and I will be there in a minute, and if she doesn't answer the door, we are going to try to break in and see if everything's okay."

Maybe Duane Dipert got off the phone and tried to call Nona's mom to tell her about K.Jo's phone call and ask if she had spoken to Nona. Perhaps she was busy at work and DD was waiting for her to return his call before following up. If that call came in at 6:25, that didn't leave Mr. Dipert much time to do anything IMO.

[lorettalockhorn]

If it is true that K.Jo didn't call DD until 6:25 and the 911 call was made at 6:30, then that doesn't leave much time for following up. IIRC, the things K.Jo claimed to have learned from that phone call was that DD hadn't talked to Nona and that Carol was at work. That certainly doesn't sound like he called Mr. Dipert and said something like, "I am really, really getting worried about Nona. Have you or Mrs. Dipert heard from her? I have been trying to call her for hours and she hasn't returned my calls like she always does. Did she have some plans for today that I wasn't aware of? I sent Ryan over there and he said her car was there but that she didn't answer the door! Do you have the key to Nona's apartment so we can all check on her real quick? My mom and I will be there in a minute, and if she doesn't answer the door, we are going to try to break in and see if everything's okay."

Maybe Duane Dipert got off the phone and tried to call Nona's mom to tell her about K.Jo's phone call and ask if she had spoken to Nona. Perhaps she was busy at work and DD was waiting for her to return his call before following up. If that call came in at 6:25, that didn't leave Mr. Dipert much time to do anything IMO.

Exactly. The Joneses had to have been right there or very close by when they made the call, since tramping around the apartment before the 6:30 911 call would have taken a few minutes. Why didn't KJ ask Duane to meet them there with the key? Why was there such a sudden sense of urgency that necessitated a break-in?

[TJEddie]

Jones was asked to take a polygraph after several hours of being interviewed by the police. It was his second interview with police. It was the night of the visitation. He said yes. The officer who adminstered the test was brand new, it was only his second or third test. Jones failed according to the officer.
York was asked to take one as well but declined.

From a Courier article quoted on page 2 of this thread:

“At the request of the prosecuting attorney, to further support our initial statement of suspects being conclusively eliminated, we have re-evaluated each person of interest,” Bacon said in the released statement. “Subsequently, we requested the Arkansas State Police to administer additional polygraph examinations, and yet again we can say that all but one suspect has been conclusively eliminated.”

Hmmmmm.....

[oxfordwebster]

From a Courier article quoted on page 2 of this thread:

“At the request of the prosecuting attorney, to further support our initial statement of suspects being conclusively eliminated, we have re-evaluated each person of interest,” Bacon said in the released statement. “Subsequently, we requested the Arkansas State Police to administer additional polygraph examinations, and yet again we can say that all but one suspect has been conclusively eliminated.”

Hmmmmm.....Oh man, that's a gigantic hole!

Except that since they can't use the lie detectors in court in the first place (well, it's up to the judge, but whatever), they didn't have to administer a lie detector to every suspect to clear them. They had to do some investigating to do that. I doubt that lie detectors were the only thing used to investigate a suspect.

[lorettalockhorn]

Jones was asked to take a polygraph after several hours of being interviewed by the police. It was his second interview with police. It was the night of the visitation. He said yes. The officer who adminstered the test was brand new, it was only his second or third test. Jones failed according to the officer.
York was asked to take one as well but declined.

Was this courtroom testimony or a newspaper article maybe? I'm not finding anything; link please. TYIA

[christina]

Was this courtroom testimony or a newspaper article maybe? I'm not finding anything; link please. TYIA

Got it from the same place FDInLaw got her info probably.

[lorettalockhorn]

Got it from the same place FDInLaw got her info probably.

Huh? I guess my mind thinks it's Monday all over again and I'm just not getting it. I mean, do you have a link to your information or is it just your opinion or rumor?

[christina]

Huh? I guess my mind thinks it's Monday all over again and I'm just not getting it. I mean, do you have a link to your information or is it just your opinion or rumor?

To quote a well respected member/poster who stated it well-

"Originally Posted by FDInLaw
Kevin failed the polygraph, but there has not been an "official" statement made by the press regarding this and I certainly don't expect you to take my word for it."

[lorettalockhorn]

To quote a well respected member/poster who stated it well-

"Originally Posted by FDInLaw
Kevin failed the polygraph, but there has not been an "official" statement made by the press regarding this and I certainly don't expect you to take my word for it."


Well, you are skirting the issue for some reason. :shrug:

My question was (since you don't seem to have a link to courtroom testimony or an article), is this your opinion or a rumor?

Got it from the same place FDInLaw got her info probably.


I'll just assume that it's a little of both, since I'm fairly certain that your connection to the cases isn't the same as FD's might be.

[hawgustusgloop]

Well, you are skirting the issue for some reason. :shrug:

My question was (since you don't seem to have a link to courtroom testimony or an article), is this your opinion or a rumor?




I'll just assume that it's a little of both, since I'm fairly certain that your connection to the cases isn't the same as FD's might be.

Would anyone be able to testify about him failing the test in court? Or would such testimony be inadmissible?

IMO it is a big ol' rumor that seems to have come out of nowhere.

[hawgustusgloop]

To quote a well respected member/poster who stated it well-

"Originally Posted by FDInLaw
Kevin failed the polygraph, but there has not been an "official" statement made by the press regarding this and I certainly don't expect you to take my word for it."

???

FDInLaw and others said he failed it, which I am inclined to believe, but your rumor is the first I have heard about there being a "brand new" polygraph examiner and about Trey York being asked to take one and declining. I would also like to know where that info came from.

[oxfordwebster]

???

FDInLaw and others said he failed it, which I am inclined to believe, but your rumor is the first I have heard about there being a "brand new" polygraph examiner and about Trey York being asked to take one and declining. I would also like to know where that info came from.Me too. I've only ever heard of one examiner being used, and it was someone from the Arkansas State Police. I'm sure Christina won't have any trouble explaining it, though. :rolleyes:

[hawgustusgloop]

From a Courier article quoted on page 2 of this thread:

“At the request of the prosecuting attorney, to further support our initial statement of suspects being conclusively eliminated, we have re-evaluated each person of interest,” Bacon said in the released statement. “Subsequently, we requested the Arkansas State Police to administer additional polygraph examinations, and yet again we can say that all but one suspect has been conclusively eliminated.”

Hmmmmm.....

So, are you suggesting that the one suspect that had not been eliminated was Trey York, and that K.Jo, the person who was later tried for the crime and who is rumored to have failed a polygraph, was conclusively eliminated as a suspect? IMO it appears obvious to me they are referring to K.Jo as the lone remaining suspect.

[christina]

It is neither opinion nor rumor. It is information I have gathered from talking directly to people involved in this case. I stand by my information. You are free to accept it or not.

[christina]

???

FDInLaw and others said he failed it, which I am inclined to believe, but your rumor is the first I have heard about there being a "brand new" polygraph examiner and about Trey York being asked to take one and declining. I would also like to know where that info came from.

I also said that according to the examiner, Jones failed it. The officer was brand new to polygraphing, he is a veteran ASP officer. He did testify at the trial but only about driving distances from Jones house to Nona's apartment.

[oxfordwebster]

I also said that according to the examiner, Jones failed it. The officer was brand new to polygraphing, he is a veteran ASP officer. He did testify at the trial but only about driving distances from Jones house to Nona's apartment.I'd love to see some verifiable information about the ASP officer, but as for his testimony... well, what do you expect? He's not going to testify about polygraph results if the judge doesn't allow them in.

[TJEddie]

IMO this board would be a much poorer place without the inside info/insights offered by some of our local posters. Thanks to all of you for your efforts.....regardless of which side of the fence you're on.

[hawgustusgloop]

I'd love to see some verifiable information about the ASP officer, but as for his testimony... well, what do you expect? He's not going to testify about polygraph results if the judge doesn't allow them in.

Well, here is a Courier witness summary for Bill Glover, a veteran ASP officer, who testified about driving times:

"Bill Glover
Senior Special Agent Bill Glover of the Arkansas State Police testified that the Russellville Police Department requested he conduct a test on how long it took to drive from Jones’ home to Dirksmeyer’s South Inglewood Avenue apartment in Russellville.
He said he timed two different routes on a Wednesday morning while observing the speed limit. He said the first route, which involved taking State Highway 7 south through Dover to Russellville, was 17.1 miles and took 25 minutes. The second route, which involved turning off State Highway 7 onto Lake View Drive (State Highway 326), was 16 miles and took 21.5 minutes."

Maybe someone can do a little research on him?

[hawgustusgloop]

It is neither opinion nor rumor. It is information I have gathered from talking directly to people involved in this case. I stand by my information. You are free to accept it or not.

I know that I am free to accept these "rumors" or not, but thank you for the reminder. I can only speak for myself, but I put this rumor in the same category as Trey York's mom calling the sheriff, Jordan Harris testifying to oral sex in the music room, the second greeting card at the scene, Trey York coming back to testify for the defense and pleading the fifth, Trey York having an attorney for a "wee hours" interview, etc.

[christina]

I know that I am free to accept these "rumors" or not, but thank you for the reminder. I can only speak for myself, but I put this rumor in the same category as Trey York's mom calling the sheriff, Jordan Harris testifying to oral sex in the music room, the second greeting card at the scene, Trey York coming back to testify for the defense and pleading the fifth, Trey York having an attorney for a "wee hours" interview, etc.

If you are insinuating I said all these things, please correct the fourth one, I did not say York was coming back to testify for the defense and pleaded the fifth.
And as for the fifth item, my initial information was wrong, he was contacted in the "wee hours" but did not have an interview until later on the 16th.

[hawgustusgloop]

If you are insinuating I said all these things, please correct the fourth one, I did not say York was coming back to testify for the defense and pleaded the fifth.
And as for the fifth item, my initial information was wrong, he was contacted in the "wee hours" but did not have an interview until later on the 16th.

From pages 97 and 117 of this thread, respectively:


>snip<
No doubt in my mind- the York guy is squirly at best. He was the only one the PD interviewed who came with a laywer for the interview. I thought I overheard something about "taking the fifth" during the sidebar prior to him entering the room. Did anyone else??




>snip; referring to Trey York<
I will lay bets he pleads the fifth when called by the defense.

[lorettalockhorn]

No doubt in my mind- the York guy is squirly at best. He was the only one the PD interviewed who came with a laywer for the interview. I thought I overheard something about "taking the fifth" during the sidebar prior to him entering the room. Did anyone else??

Just wondering, was it York's attorney who said something about taking the fifth amendment at the sidebar? Was he actually a part of the courtroom procedings? Or were the State and defense attorneys speculating that York would take the fifth? The judge?

Or what?

[LurkerNoMore]

???

FDInLaw and others said he failed it, which I am inclined to believe, but your rumor is the first I have heard about there being a "brand new" polygraph examiner and about Trey York being asked to take one and declining. I would also like to know where that info came from.

I also heard that the polygraph examiner was brand new to administering polygraphs, and that his classification, as far as examiners go, was that of an intern. I'll back you up on that one, Christina.

[christina]

I am a local who took an interest in this case and attended pre trial hearings and the trial with the expectation of Jones being found guilty. What I learned at these caused me doubts. I have since had the opportunity and taken the initiative to talk personally with various people involved in the case.....LE, attorneys, etc. and they have been quite open with me. These are my sources, and I assume they are likewise available to others here. This is the only source info I am comfortable divulging. I will not do my sources the discourtesy of posting their names on a public message board. If this invalidates my posts in the eyes of some, so be it. Feel free to pass them by.

I admit my personal views are now biased in this case. However, I do my best to be factual and unbiased in what I report here. To be fair, I will say that almost every professional I have spoken to believes that Jones is guilty. For the most part, the doubts are my own.

Hopefully this will serve to put my posts in perspective and will put an end to some of the endless challenges. I intend to continue pursuing information on this case. I also intend to continue reporting my findings for those who care to read them.

[christina]

Just wondering, was it York's attorney who said something about taking the fifth amendment at the sidebar? Was he actually a part of the courtroom procedings? Or were the State and defense attorneys speculating that York would take the fifth? The judge?

Or what?

The jury was out of the room, the prosecutors went up close to the judge's bench and motioned for the defense attorneys to do the same. I heard the prosecutors say "take the fifth". Then a defense attorney argued back. I have asked around and was told that prosecutors were arguing York had taken the fifth because he had his attorney with him. The defense argued that all he had done was invoked his right to an attorney and requested he(York) be required to take the fifth publically, on the stand.
York was brought in and testified after that and never took the fifth. Hawg pasted my previous comments about my belief that if York had been called back by the defense(he was one of the prosecution witnesses the defense told the judge they might call back) I think he would have plead the fifth.

[lorettalockhorn]

I am a local who took an interest in this case and attended pre trial hearings and the trial with the expectation of Jones being found guilty. What I learned at these caused me doubts. I have since had the opportunity and taken the initiative to talk personally with various people involved in the case.....LE, attorneys, etc. and they have been quite open with me. These are my sources, and I assume they are likewise available to others here. This is the only source info I am comfortable divulging. I will not do my sources the discourtesy of posting their names on a public message board. If this invalidates my posts in the eyes of some, so be it. Feel free to pass them by.

I admit my personal views are now biased in this case. However, I do my best to be factual and unbiased in what I report here. To be fair, I will say that almost every professional I have spoken to believes that Jones is guilty. For the most part, the doubts are my own.

Hopefully this will serve to put my posts in perspective and will put an end to some of the endless challenges. I intend to continue pursuing information on this case. I also intend to continue reporting my findings for those who care to read them.

Too wittle, too wate. Your credibility is already shot beginning with your earlier statements that while you were posting here and attending hearings, you reserved judgement in case you might be called as a juror for a case where the son of your friend was a key witness.

You are reporting nothing more than gossip since the case files have not been released and it should be labelled as such. Just my opinion; others may feel differently, of course. We have every right to challenge what is and isn't fact.

Besides, the obvious fact that you could not have served honestly as a juror, you have made other blunders and bashed the victim. :shrug:

[lorettalockhorn]

The jury was out of the room, the prosecutors went up close to the judge's bench and motioned for the defense attorneys to do the same. I heard the prosecutors say "take the fifth". Then a defense attorney argued back. I have asked around and was told that prosecutors were arguing York had taken the fifth because he had his attorney with him. The defense argued that all he had done was invoked his right to an attorney and requested he(York) be required to take the fifth publically, on the stand.
York was brought in and testified after that and never took the fifth. Hawg pasted my previous comments about my belief that if York had been called back by the defense(he was one of the prosecution witnesses the defense told the judge they might call back) I think he would have plead the fifth.

Well, that is interesting. Sort of. But the words "take the fifth" really don't mean anything unless they came from York's supposed attorney or York himself.

[TJEddie]

Well, christina, suffice it to say that loretta doesn't speak for all of us. I stand by my previous post in appreciation of all local posters with inside info/insights to share.

[Manning]

I also appreciate all post.

[hawgustusgloop]

Too wittle, too wate. Your credibility is already shot beginning with your earlier statements that while you were posting here and attending hearings, you reserved judgement in case you might be called as a juror for a case where the son of your friend was a key witness.

You are reporting nothing more than gossip since the case files have not been released and it should be labelled as such. Just my opinion; others may feel differently, of course. We have every right to challenge what is and isn't fact.

Besides, the obvious fact that you could not have served honestly as a juror, you have made other blunders and bashed the victim. :shrug:

Exactly. IMO without confirmation, it is gossip at best, and for all we know, some of it may even be outright lies. I would also like to know where LurkerNoMore got the info about the polygraph examiner being an "intern" but I guess that might be expecting too much. I think anyone should post whatever he or she wants, but if it can't be backed up by facts, please do not be surprised if some of us want to challenge the veracity of the rumors.

[lorettalockhorn]

Well, christina, suffice it to say that loretta doesn't speak for all of us. I stand by my previous post in appreciation of all local posters with inside info/insights to share.

Hey Gary Busey! That would be exactly why I stated "just my opinion" and that others may feel the same. I would never presume to speak for others without permission, let alone all others.

Most of the credible posters willingly post links, or state that what they have heard is indeed gossip. I read every post and believe that there is sometimes truth in rumor, but I take some posters with a huge grain of salt because of their refusal to cooperate with verifying information. And I have to ask why?

[TJEddie]

I am a local who took an interest in this case and attended pre trial hearings and the trial with the expectation of Jones being found guilty. What I learned at these caused me doubts. I have since had the opportunity and taken the initiative to talk personally with various people involved in the case.....LE, attorneys, etc. and they have been quite open with me. These are my sources, and I assume they are likewise available to others here. This is the only source info I am comfortable divulging. I will not do my sources the discourtesy of posting their names on a public message board. If this invalidates my posts in the eyes of some, so be it. Feel free to pass them by.

I admit my personal views are now biased in this case. However, I do my best to be factual and unbiased in what I report here. To be fair, I will say that almost every professional I have spoken to believes that Jones is guilty. For the most part, the doubts are my own.

Hopefully this will serve to put my posts in perspective and will put an end to some of the endless challenges. I intend to continue pursuing information on this case. I also intend to continue reporting my findings for those who care to read them.

christina, thanks for taking the time and trouble to inform us as to the source(s) of your information.

[sololobo]

Exactly. The Joneses had to have been right there or very close by when they made the call, since tramping around the apartment before the 6:30 911 call would have taken a few minutes. Why didn't KJ ask Duane to meet them there with the key? Why was there such a sudden sense of urgency that necessitated a break-in?

Perhaps seeing her body laying in the living room floor prompted a sudden sense of urgency. Should they have waited for Duane to bring a key?

[sololobo]

Thank you for posting, christina. It is refreshing to read a post about the case and not unsubstantiated personal attacks for a change.

[lorettalockhorn]

Perhaps seeing her body laying in the living room floor prompted a sudden sense of urgency. Should they have waited for Duane to bring a key?


My bad. I thought that the Kevin called practically from Nona's front door and that when she didn't answer, they tried to card the door. They didn't see her until they went around to the back, presumably get in through the slider (that of course KJ knew that he could bump open if necessary). Nona's body couldn't be seen until after the break-in process was in motion.

[optimumprimal78]

Jones was asked to take a polygraph after several hours of being interviewed by the police. It was his second interview with police. It was the night of the visitation. He said yes. The officer who adminstered the test was brand new, it was only his second or third test. Jones failed according to the officer.
York was asked to take one as well but declined.

It doesn't matter how many they have administered. To be an examiner you have to take A LOT of tests in order to administer the polygraphs. This includes numerous tests where you actually give someone a polygraph test. That comment suggests that you consider it to be a conspiracy or you are making it seem like you have pertinent information. If you do believe in either of these it would be wise to go to the police (or a newspaper if you think it might have been faulty testing) because it might be beneficial to the case.

[optimumprimal78]

Perhaps seeing her body laying in the living room floor prompted a sudden sense of urgency. Should they have waited for Duane to bring a key?

Someone refresh my mind if she was in the front room and they saw her through window wouldn't the front blinds have been somewhat open? Couldn't someone else have seen her body? I thought it was the back door that didn't have the blinds pulled. Someone please correct me.

[oxfordwebster]

My bad. I thought that the Kevin called practically from Nona's front door and that when she didn't answer, they tried to card the door. They didn't see her until they went around to the back, presumably get in through the slider (that of course KJ knew that he could bump open if necessary). Nona's body couldn't be seen until after the break-in process was in motion.Bingo. Kevin and crew decided to try to break in by carding the door before her body was ever visible.

I wonder what made Kevin have that sixth sense to give him such urgency?

[lorettalockhorn]

christina, thanks for taking the time and trouble to inform us as to the source(s) of your information.

Who/Where/When? Was it deleted? I cannot find it.

It's amazing to me that no one associated with this case in an official capacity has spoken to the press, nor have the case files been released for public perusal, yet we are supposed to believe that people in the know are giving Christina information and that she is protecting their identities. Like whomever gave her the information about Mrs. York calling the PCSD (the wrong agency) to inquire about her son's girlfriend. But that was on condition of anonymity. :rolleyes:

[lorettalockhorn]

It doesn't matter how many they have administered. To be an examiner you have to take A LOT of tests in order to administer the polygraphs. This includes numerous tests where you actually give someone a polygraph test. That comment suggests that you consider it to be a conspiracy or you are making it seem like you have pertinent information. If you do believe in either of these it would be wise to go to the police (or a newspaper if you think it might have been faulty testing) because it might be beneficial to the case.

It's hard for me to imagine that with as few murders (fortunately) as there are in Pope Co. and as important as the case was, that LE would put so much faith in a test that was administered by someone who would botch the results. As for that information, I haven't found anything to indicate that the test was administered by a novice.

Did KJ ever take a polygraph administered by defense experts? Did he pass? It wouldn't tell us anything, but it would be interesting to know.

[christina]

It doesn't matter how many they have administered. To be an examiner you have to take A LOT of tests in order to administer the polygraphs. This includes numerous tests where you actually give someone a polygraph test. That comment suggests that you consider it to be a conspiracy or you are making it seem like you have pertinent information. If you do believe in either of these it would be wise to go to the police (or a newspaper if you think it might have been faulty testing) because it might be beneficial to the case.

You are probably correct about the training involved. I wonder if someone at the ASP could give the exact credentials required.
When I first heard about a polygraph being administered I did some reading on them. The information I gleaned was that the experience of the examiner and the state of the examinee(word?) are pertinent to the outcome/results.
No I am not saying there is a conspiracy here. I do think it should be noted when considering the result-failure-that Jones agreed to take the test after several hours of questioning when his expectation was to be at Nona's visitation instead. And noted that the examiner was new to this particular job.
But as someone mentioned in a prior post, there is a reason these tests are not commonly allowed in a trial, they are unreliable.
The officers and lawyers I have spoken with hold fast to Jones failure of that test as a reason they believe he is guilty of murdering Nona. With what I have read, I find that odd.

[LurkerNoMore]

Exactly. IMO without confirmation, it is gossip at best, and for all we know, some of it may even be outright lies. I would also like to know where LurkerNoMore got the info about the polygraph examiner being an "intern" but I guess that might be expecting too much. I think anyone should post whatever he or she wants, but if it can't be backed up by facts, please do not be surprised if some of us want to challenge the veracity of the rumors.

If you wish to investigate on your own, call Frostie. Call the State Police. Call the guy who did the polygraph. Ask him when he administered the polygraph, what were his creditials and certifications. If this guy is on the State's payroll, isn't that public record?

[LurkerNoMore]

It doesn't matter how many they have administered. To be an examiner you have to take A LOT of tests in order to administer the polygraphs. This includes numerous tests where you actually give someone a polygraph test. That comment suggests that you consider it to be a conspiracy or you are making it seem like you have pertinent information. If you do believe in either of these it would be wise to go to the police (or a newspaper if you think it might have been faulty testing) because it might be beneficial to the case.

Of course it matters how many they have administered. Polygraph results are ALWAYS challengable. There's a reason they aren't allowed in court. But if the guy is a beginner, just like in ANY area, of course that is pertinent, and it makes the results all the more questionable.

A person goes through all kinds of training to be a doctor. You've got a dying kid. You have a choice between a year-one resident and a thirty-year pro. Which do you take your kid to?

It's absurd to say that it doesn't matter how much experience someone has in a given area.

[LurkerNoMore]

It's hard for me to imagine that with as few murders (fortunately) as there are in Pope Co. and as important as the case was, that LE would put so much faith in a test that was administered by someone who would botch the results. As for that information, I haven't found anything to indicate that the test was administered by a novice.

It's hard for you to believe that LE would put so much faith in a test that was administered by someone who would botch the results?

Really?

After all that LE failed to do in this case?

[optimumprimal78]

Of course it matters how many they have administered. Polygraph results are ALWAYS challengable. There's a reason they aren't allowed in court. But if the guy is a beginner, just like in ANY area, of course that is pertinent, and it makes the results all the more questionable.

A person goes through all kinds of training to be a doctor. You've got a dying kid. You have a choice between a year-one resident and a thirty-year pro. Which do you take your kid to?

It's absurd to say that it doesn't matter how much experience someone has in a given area.

It is not absurd. The person doing the testing knows how to work the machine and knows how to interpret the readings. The readings would be the same whether or not it was a new person or a 30 year pro.

[lorettalockhorn]

It's hard for you to believe that LE would put so much faith in a test that was administered by someone who would botch the results?

Really?

Yes. Really.

I seriously doubt that the results of the polygraph were what led LE to charge KJ with murder. My understanding is that lie detectors are merely a gauge. And it doesn't really matter; the possibly tainted jury watched the videotaped interview(s) more than once and saw and heard Kevin lying and they still acquitted him.

[hawgustusgloop]

It's hard for me to imagine that with as few murders (fortunately) as there are in Pope Co. and as important as the case was, that LE would put so much faith in a test that was administered by someone who would botch the results. As for that information, I haven't found anything to indicate that the test was administered by a novice.

Did KJ ever take a polygraph administered by defense experts? Did he pass? It wouldn't tell us anything, but it would be interesting to know.

I haven't seen any credible information about who administered the test or what his or her qualifications might be either. Yes, the RPD is guilty of some seriously shoddy police work, but they asked the ASP to do the polygraphs.

If K.Jo took a polygraph administered by his own experts and passed, IMO we would have heard about it for sure. If that info didn't make it to an actual news report, you can be sure we would've heard it in a rumor here. I'm actually kind of surprised no one has said that here, whether it's true or not.

[lorettalockhorn]

I haven't seen any credible information about who administered the test or what his or her qualifications might be either. Yes, the RPD is guilty of some seriously shoddy police work, but they asked the ASP to do the polygraphs.

If K.Jo took a polygraph administered by his own experts and passed, IMO we would have heard about it for sure. If that info didn't make it to an actual news report, you can be sure we would've heard it in a rumor here. I'm actually kind of surprised no one has said that here, whether it's true or not.

Didn't SusieQ post that KJ had actually passed a polygraph? Maybe she had inside information that he took one administered by the defense, and that's what she was referring to.

[hawgustusgloop]

Didn't SusieQ post that KJ had actually passed a polygraph? Maybe she had inside information that he took one administered by the defense, and that's what she was referring to.

I don't know....I think her wording was along the lines of, "I just heard he was not the one who failed," or something similar.

Edit: I found the post:

I had just heard that he was NOT the one that failed it. I mean either way, polygraphs aren't admissable in court. So, the fact that it is on the evidence list does not merely suggest he failed it to me. :shrug:

[TJEddie]

Probably more than you ever wanted to know about the scientific validity of polygraph exams:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/polygraph/ota/validity.html

(If chapter 6 doesn't do it for you, you can click back to chapters 4 & 5 for more info.)

Kind of shooting from the hip here, but it is my impression, based on LE statements made early in the investigation, that Kevin's apparent polygraph failure was highly instrumental in determining LE's focus in the investigation.

[lorettalockhorn]

Probably more than you ever wanted to know about the scientific validity of polygraph exams:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/polygraph/ota/validity.html

(If chapter 6 doesn't do it for you, you can click back to chapters 4 & 5 for more info.)

Kind of shooting from the hip here, but it is my impression, based on LE statements made early in the investigation, that Kevin's apparent polygraph failure was highly instrumental in determining LE's focus in the investigation.

Yes, I'm sure that the fact that he told numerous lies during his interviews, had a motive and the opportunity, no alibi, combined with the fact that his bloody print was found on the bulb, had nothing to do with his arrest.

[hawgustusgloop]

Probably more than you ever wanted to know about the scientific validity of polygraph exams:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/polygraph/ota/validity.html

(If chapter 6 doesn't do it for you, you can click back to chapters 4 & 5 for more info.)

Kind of shooting from the hip here, but it is my impression, based on LE statements made early in the investigation, that Kevin's apparent polygraph failure was highly instrumental in determining LE's focus in the investigation.

I am definitely shooting from the hip here, because I haven't talked to anyone even marginally connected to this case and have no sources, real or imaginary, outside of my own thoughts. It is my impression, based on following this case for a long time, that Kevin's apparent polygraph failure, the fact that he left a bloody palm print on a murder weapon he and others said he didn't touch, the big ol' lies he told during the investigation, his lack of alibi for the time of the murder, the fact that he seemed to know a little too much about Nona's injuries way too soon, his seemingly odd behavior at the scene, and the fact that every other reasonable suspect had a verifiable alibi were all highly instrumental in determining LE's focus in the investigation.

Again, this isn't even a rumor and I don't claim any sources. It's just my speculative opinion.

[TJEddie]

From a Courier article quoted on page 2 of this thread:

“At the request of the prosecuting attorney, to further support our initial statement of suspects being conclusively eliminated, we have re-evaluated each person of interest,” Bacon said in the released statement. “Subsequently, we requested the Arkansas State Police to administer additional polygraph examinations, and yet again we can say that all but one suspect has been conclusively eliminated.”

So if these other persons of interest all had solid and verified alibis, why the need for additional polygraphs? Were alibis verified by polygraph or something?

Of course there's that troublesome report from christina's source(s) that Trey York was asked to take a polygraph, but declined. If it's true that he was asked to take a polygraph, I have to assume there was some reason for it. I wonder how RPD got around that.

I also wonder if anyone else declined to be polygraphed.

[christina]

Their vans were outside the house on Skyline Drive I was told was the Dipert's home. Anyone heard about this? I was told 48 hours interviewed people in the case also.

[TJEddie]

Their vans were outside the house on Skyline Drive I was told was the Dipert's home. Anyone heard about this? I was told 48 hours interviewed people in the case also.

Thanks for the heads up, christina. I'd like to see this case publicly pursued.

[hawgustusgloop]

Their vans were outside the house on Skyline Drive I was told was the Dipert's home. Anyone heard about this? I was told 48 hours interviewed people in the case also.

I like Dateline and would like to see this tragedy and IMO travesty profiled on there. Do they really have vans that say "Dateline" on them? I can't believe they would be that conspicuous. I hope they don't park them outside those "To Catch A Predator" houses.

The word out on the street is that 48 hours is covering the case and will air its report sometime after the beginning of next year.

[sololobo]

Bingo. Kevin and crew decided to try to break in by carding the door before her body was ever visible.

I wonder what made Kevin have that sixth sense to give him such urgency?

Trying to card a door does not indicate a sense of urgency. If they could have seen the body from the front door, I'm sure they would then feel a sense of urgency and kicked the door in. Also, Kevin may not have realized that Duane lived right up the hill from Nona's apartment and could have walked there with the key in a few minutes.

[sololobo]

Someone refresh my mind if she was in the front room and they saw her through window wouldn't the front blinds have been somewhat open? Couldn't someone else have seen her body? I thought it was the back door that didn't have the blinds pulled. Someone please correct me.

The living room was in the back of the apartment.

[sololobo]

Yes, I'm sure that the fact that he told numerous lies during his interviews, had a motive and the opportunity, no alibi, combined with the fact that his bloody print was found on the bulb, had nothing to do with his arrest.

Could you elaborate on the lies he told in the interviews? And what was his motive? Also, why do you think the jury was tainted?

[oxfordwebster]

Trying to card a door does not indicate a sense of urgency.Oh, okay. I guess he normally cards doors to get access to places, which doesn't seem like an admirable character trait, but whatever.

[hawgustusgloop]

Trying to card a door does not indicate a sense of urgency. If they could have seen the body from the front door, I'm sure they would then feel a sense of urgency and kicked the door in. Also, Kevin may not have realized that Duane lived right up the hill from Nona's apartment and could have walked there with the key in a few minutes.

IMO trying to break into someone's apartment definitely indicates a sense of urgency. Do you think K.Jo didn't know where Mrs. Dipert, the mother of his long-time very, very exclusive girlfriend, who thought of him like a son, lived? IMO K.Jo intentionally waited to call just long enough and probably left out enough information that Duane Dipert would not have the time or understanding of the seriousness of the situation to do anything before K.Jo could break in and contaminate the scene.

[k9 lurker]

I also heard that the polygraph examiner was brand new to administering polygraphs, and that his classification, as far as examiners go, was that of an intern. I'll back you up on that one, Christina.

I have been reading all your posts about the lack of experience of the polygraph examiner. His name is Bill Glover and he is a sepcial agent of the Arkansas State Police. I made contact with him and talked to him about the exam. He read the results and then had his boss read them as well and he was told that he failed the exam worst he had ever seen.

[christina]

I have been reading all your posts about the lack of experience of the polygraph examiner. His name is Bill Glover and he is a sepcial agent of the Arkansas State Police. I made contact with him and talked to him about the exam. He read the results and then had his boss read them as well and he was told that he failed the exam worst he had ever seen.

Thank you for this first hand information! Did you ask anything else-when he was certified? Did he say the conditions surrounding the exam, was it after several hours of Jones being questioned?
What about if York was asked to take one?

[christina]

Could you elaborate on the lies he told in the interviews? And what was his motive? Also, why do you think the jury was tainted?

As to the "lies" told during his interview. This has been brought up many times previously- specifically that Jones said he didn't touch anything. What I heard on the tape was Jones using the terms-"I don't think I touched anything, I don't remember touching anything". The officers asked him that question probably 4 times over the course of the interview. He never insisted he did not touch anything as it has been characterized.

[oxfordwebster]

As to the "lies" told during his interview. This has been brought up many times previously- specifically that Jones said he didn't touch anything. What I heard on the tape was Jones using the terms-"I don't think I touched anything, I don't remember touching anything". The officers asked him that question probably 4 times over the course of the interview. He never insisted he did not touch anything as it has been characterized.Let's not forget about his ever exclusive relationship with Nona, and whatever else I'm too tired to remember properly.

As for York taking a lie detector, honestly anybody who didn't have anything to do with the case at all has a right to not agree to take one. They are pretty invasive.

[christina]

Let's not forget about his ever exclusive relationship with Nona, and whatever else I'm too tired to remember properly.

As for York taking a lie detector, honestly anybody who didn't have anything to do with the case at all has a right to not agree to take one. They are pretty invasive.


Like Jones, York was a person of interest. He was called as a witness. He texted Nona the morning of the murder. He did have something to do with this case.

[oxfordwebster]

Like Jones, York was a person of interest. He was called as a witness. He texted Nona the morning of the murder. He did have something to do with this case.I'll be more concerned with his lack of taking a lie detector when there is any evidence at all tying him to the murder. Kevin seems to have everyone beat, for some funny reason.

[hawgustusgloop]

Let's not forget about his ever exclusive relationship with Nona, and whatever else I'm too tired to remember properly.

As for York taking a lie detector, honestly anybody who didn't have anything to do with the case at all has a right to not agree to take one. They are pretty invasive.

What about K.Jo saying Nona's "Little" canceled their plans for the evening. Also, IMO the proposal story was a lie. Also, the fact that he said he only cheated on Nona once. Oh, yeah, and I guess he said he left his house at 11:45, when even his own Christian-looking grandmother says she saw him at 11:30. I think there are other, bigger lies but that is JMO.

[lorettalockhorn]

Could you elaborate on the lies he told in the interviews? And what was his motive? Also, why do you think the jury was tainted?

You're such a kidder! :hat: KJ lies have been enumerated several times.

I think it's possible that the jury was tainted because I read part of an email that was posted on another board from a friend of RW's that his/her uncle (knowing that they are close friends), served on the jury and that the relationship was close enough that the man felt compelled to call and relay the verdict. That has also been posted. More than once.

[LurkerNoMore]

You're such a kidder! :hat: KJ lies have been enumerated several times.

I think it's possible that the jury was tainted because I read part of an email that was posted on another board from a friend of RW's that his/her uncle (knowing that they are close friends), served on the jury and that the relationship was close enough that the man felt compelled to call and relay the verdict. That has also been posted. More than once.

KJ's "lies" are a matter of interpretation, one that we disagree on. Again, if there were lies, why wasn't this pointed out by the State again and again and again?

[LurkerNoMore]

You're such a kidder! :hat: KJ lies have been enumerated several times.

I think it's possible that the jury was tainted because I read part of an email that was posted on another board from a friend of RW's that his/her uncle (knowing that they are close friends), served on the jury and that the relationship was close enough that the man felt compelled to call and relay the verdict. That has also been posted. More than once.

That's real reliable, Lo. For one who nails Christina with a "source" request every time she posts, I find your source here lacking.

[LurkerNoMore]

Let's not forget about his ever exclusive relationship with Nona, and whatever else I'm too tired to remember properly.

As for York taking a lie detector, honestly anybody who didn't have anything to do with the case at all has a right to not agree to take one. They are pretty invasive.

In the interview, who used the word "exclusive" first, Jones or the cop?

I think that it is reasonable to think that, to some people, especially to a guy, "exclusive" might be taken to mean "serious."

I wonder if Nona would have said she and Kevin were exclusive, too?

[lorettalockhorn]

That's real reliable, Lo. For one who nails Christina with a "source" request every time she posts, I find your source here lacking.

Sorry, it's against the rules to link to another board. You might simply go out and read some of the places where these kids* post and find it yourself. I have repeatedly used the words "possibly tainted" and have never said that this is a hard and fast fact. Don't know why you have a problem with that. You believe that Christina successfully investigates where the bona fide media isn't successful, but you don't believe it when people tell you that they have found tidbits of their own. WE

*By these kids, I mean Kevin's drinking buddies, friends, etc.

[TJEddie]

I don't want to look it up right now, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but wasn't the full quote something to the effect of, "Very, very exclusive.....I'm her best friend and she's my best friend"? That doesn't sound like a statement on the sexual aspects of the relationship to me.

[hawgustusgloop]

Sorry, it's against the rules to link to another board. You might simply go out and read some of the places where these kids* post and find it yourself. I have repeatedly used the words "possibly tainted" and have never said that this is a hard and fast fact. Don't know why you have a problem with that. You believe that Christina successfully investigates where the bona fide media isn't successful, but you don't believe it when people tell you that they have found tidbits of their own. WE

*By these kids, I mean Kevin's drinking buddies, friends, etc.

I would love it if Dateline or 48 Hours were able to dig a little deeper into this. I think it could at least be verified one way or another if the juror who is a nurse is indeed the uncle of a "close friend" of Ryan Whiteside.

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't want to look it up right now, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but wasn't the full quote something to the effect of, "Very, very exclusive.....I'm her best friend and she's my best friend"? That doesn't sound like a statement on the sexual aspects of the relationship to me.


You think that it's possible that he meant the he was Nona's very, very exclusive friend, not boyfriend? Yikes, that's creepy. I don't think that anyone would deny that they both had a circle of friends and that to some degree, they ran with different crowds (with some crossover; with CH, for example), but for KJ to think that he was Nona's exclusive friend outside of the sexual relationship would simply be another motive in my book.

[lorettalockhorn]

I would love it if Dateline or 48 Hours were able to dig a little deeper into this. I think it could at least be verified one way or another if the juror who is a nurse is indeed the uncle of a "close friend" of Ryan Whiteside.

Well, my top secret source ;) tells me that the Dateline feature will be aired in December; it will be interesting to see what exactly they delved into. If the subject of the piece is whether or not justice was served, I would think that they would have to address the acquittal by the jury. (Some of which are supposed to be interviewed today.)

[hawgustusgloop]

KJ's "lies" are a matter of interpretation, one that we disagree on. Again, if there were lies, why wasn't this pointed out by the State again and again and again?

I am just curious, and I mean no disrespect by asking, but do you really believe K.Jo didn't tell ANY lies throughout the investigation? That idea just boggles my mind. What about everyone else who tends to believe K.Jo didn't murder Nona? Do you all think he didn't tell any lies at all?

[christina]

Well, my top secret source ;) tells me that the Dateline feature will be aired in December; it will be interesting to see what exactly they delved into. If the subject of the piece is whether or not justice was served, I would think that they would have to address the acquittal by the jury. (Some of which are supposed to be interviewed today.)

Thank you, I have not been able to find the air time! Please let us know more information as you get it, I would like to see the segment.
Did you find out who has been interviewed so far? Diperts, Jones, prosecution, defense? I have heard some sides are cooperating with 48 hours and some sides with Dateline. But that neither are cooperating with both.
Appreciate what you can find out!

[christina]

I would love it if Dateline or 48 Hours were able to dig a little deeper into this. I think it could at least be verified one way or another if the juror who is a nurse is indeed the uncle of a "close friend" of Ryan Whiteside.

I too would like to know more about the jury. Some of these shows do interviews with jurors. I would like to hear from more than just the foreman.

[hawgustusgloop]

Sometimes when you read some of the twisting that has to go on to make Kevin's statements make sense, you really lose any words that could possibly form a response.

Hey, this is one of those times.

I agree. IMO K.Jo probably understands basic English, and knew exactly what kind of impression the officers would get from the phrase "very, very exclusive," no matter which indiscretions his own personal definition of exclusivity in a relationship included.

[christina]

I don't want to look it up right now, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but wasn't the full quote something to the effect of, "Very, very exclusive.....I'm her best friend and she's my best friend"? That doesn't sound like a statement on the sexual aspects of the relationship to me.

In previous discussions about this, it was pointed out that meanings/definitions are in the mind of those saying them. Another example is Bacon's description of the palm print on the light bulb being tacky. "Common" definiton of tacky infers some level of moisture. Bacon's explained in the hearing and on the stand at trial that his definition was different.
We have also discussed that the sexual relationship of this couple was not what we might call exclusive but they did refer to each other as boyfriend and girlfriend.

[lorettalockhorn]

Thank you, I have not been able to find the air time! Please let us know more information as you get it, I would like to see the segment.
Did you find out who has been interviewed so far? Diperts, Jones, prosecution, defense? I have heard some sides are cooperating with 48 hours and some sides with Dateline. But that neither are cooperating with both.
Appreciate what you can find out!

All I was told was that the Diperts were interviewed yesterday, the program is scheduled for December, and they were to interview some of the jury today.

I've been running over to cbs.com every whipstitch to check on the 48Hours program, but nothing yet.

[lorettalockhorn]

OT: There are so many times that I just want to post "LMAO" or something similar without getting that annoying announcement that my post is too short and must be lengthened to at least ten characters.

[oxfordwebster]

We have also discussed that the sexual relationship of this couple was not what we might call exclusive but they did refer to each other as boyfriend and girlfriend.Maybe I'm a loopy, but Kevin seemed to give the impression that he was going to ask her to marry him and all that.

But you know, these wild kids. We can't really listen to something like that because kids don't follow the same rules about anything at all, ever. I mean, he cards doors to normally access apartments, even.

[lorettalockhorn]

Maybe I'm a loopy, but Kevin seemed to give the impression that he was going to ask her to marry him and all that.

But you know, these wild kids. We can't really listen to something like that because kids don't follow the same rules about anything at all, ever. I mean, he cards doors to normally access apartments, even.

Yeah, I don't get that it can be interpretted that the friendship was very, very exclusive, when there are claims that KJ was going to ask Nona to marry him that very night.

And if he cards the doors of his very, very exclusive friends, you have to wonder how he enters the apartments of mere acquaintances.

[LurkerNoMore]

Sorry, it's against the rules to link to another board. You might simply go out and read some of the places where these kids* post and find it yourself. I have repeatedly used the words "possibly tainted" and have never said that this is a hard and fast fact. Don't know why you have a problem with that. You believe that Christina successfully investigates where the bona fide media isn't successful, but you don't believe it when people tell you that they have found tidbits of their own. WE

*By these kids, I mean Kevin's drinking buddies, friends, etc.

You're assuming I don't believe you.

What if I believe you both?

I'm just pointing out differing standards.

[optimumprimal78]

Yeah, I don't get that it can be interpretted that the friendship was very, very exclusive, when there are claims that KJ was going to ask Nona to marry him that very night.

And if he cards the doors of his very, very exclusive friends, you have to wonder how he enters the apartments of mere acquaintances.

It does seem weird that he was going to ask her (of all nights) THAT NIGHT to marry him. Could it be that the people he was "seeing" in Fayetteville didn't want anything to do with him?

[lorettalockhorn]

You're assuming I don't believe you.

What if I believe you both?

I'm just pointing out differing standards.

Doesn't matter to me if you believe me or not; I think I'm considered relatively credible. I simply pointed out to you that it is stated in the rules that we cannot link to other boards or I would have already done so. According to the rules, facts should be accompanied by links, so I have qualified more than once that it may not be fact since I cannot provide the link. For all I know, the girl is blowing smoke; surely this isn't the only site where that occurs.

Also, there has been discussion in the past about what I found in case you want to catch up. I don't think that there are different standards at all, Christina simply wants us to take her word about "her investigation" and I'm not going to do that after her previous blunders.

[LurkerNoMore]

I am just curious, and I mean no disrespect by asking, but do you really believe K.Jo didn't tell ANY lies throughout the investigation? That idea just boggles my mind. What about everyone else who tends to believe K.Jo didn't murder Nona? Do you all think he didn't tell any lies at all?

I think interpretations of things vary, as do our memories. I don't think the "exclusive" thing is solid. Putting myself in his shoes, I might have called the relationship exclusive.

Now, if he said he'd cheated on her once, and, in fact, had cheated on her more than once, that's a lie, no way around it. Again, though, putting myself in his shoes, at that moment, one might understand why he limited his cheating admission. Was it the right thing to do, if he had cheated more than one time, and didn't admit to it? Absolutely not. He should have admitted to it if he was giving a statement. But then again, probably the right thing to do would have been not give a statement without a lawyer. That goes for anyone. (Before you say it, that includes Mr. York. He did the right (smart) thing by having a lawyer present.)

6 + hours of interrogations and there's nothing of real substance, in my opinion, that implicates Kevin. That's 6+ hours of giving a statement without an attorney present. If ANY suspect gives up 6+ hours of questioning, guilty or not, I'd expect them to trip up at some point under that kind of pressure. Think about that. And again, Kevin didn't give them much of anything to use against him.

No one is claiming Kevin is perfect. At least, speaking for myself, I am not claiming that.

[LurkerNoMore]

Doesn't matter to me if you believe me or not; I think I'm considered relatively credible. I simply pointed out to you that it is stated in the rules that we cannot link to other boards or I would have already done so. According to the rules, facts should be accompanied by links, so I have qualified more than once that it may not be fact since I cannot provide the link. For all I know, the girl is blowing smoke; surely this isn't the only site where that occurs.

Also, there has been discussion in the past about what I found in case you want to catch up. I don't think that there are different standards at all, Christina simply wants us to take her word about "her investigation" and I'm not going to do that after her previous blunders.

Because Christina's made so many. (Do I still have to point out when I am being sarcastic?)

But you'll give the police a pass and think they just absolutely wouldn't let a novice/beginner/someone who could blunder the results administer a crucial polygraph? After all the blunders they've made?

Differing standards, Lo.

[lorettalockhorn]

Because Christina's made so many. (Do I still have to point out when I am being sarcastic?)

But you'll give the police a pass and think they just absolutely wouldn't let a novice/beginner/someone who could blunder the results administer a crucial polygraph? After all the blunders they've made?

Differing standards, Lo.

I honestly haven't been able to find anything about Glover being a novice. The polygraph wasn't used in court, didn't influence the jury one way or another (and neither did his lies), so I'm not really clear on why it matters. :shrug:

Christina's errors for the most part have been pointed out, you may want to go back and catch up on your reading.

[christina]

Agreed Loretta, it doesn't mean much since it was not brought up/used in court. My issue is that so many of the officers, and some lawyers, I have spoken to point to Jones "failing" that polygraph as a reason they think he is guilty. These are people I respect. After the reading I have done on polygraphs, their validity keeps coming down to the skill/experience of the examiner and the circumstances immediately surrounding the test. When I heard the examiner was new I wanted further information and have been attempting to get it. My guess since my police friends have not answered the question, there is some truth to it.
I am hoping K9 Lurker will clear it up since he/she talked directly to the officer and they were willing to give information. I would like to know when he received his certification and if he was truly an apprentice, was his teacher there for the exam. Also, was it given, like I was told, following several hours of questioning on the night of the visitation.

[christina]

Doesn't matter to me if you believe me or not; I think I'm considered relatively credible. I simply pointed out to you that it is stated in the rules that we cannot link to other boards or I would have already done so. According to the rules, facts should be accompanied by links, so I have qualified more than once that it may not be fact since I cannot provide the link. For all I know, the girl is blowing smoke; surely this isn't the only site where that occurs.

Also, there has been discussion in the past about what I found in case you want to catch up. I don't think that there are different standards at all, Christina simply wants us to take her word about "her investigation" and I'm not going to do that after her previous blunders.

Understand your thoughts here Loretta. I have been in communication with Freshwater because I wanted to live up to the rules. I alerted FW to my posts (#'s 7441 and 7451) as an explanation of my sources.
I agree I have made mistakes here. I hope the positive I have brought out weighs the negative though.

[lorettalockhorn]

Agreed Loretta, it doesn't mean much since it was not brought up/used in court. My issue is that so many of the officers, and some lawyers, I have spoken to point to Jones "failing" that polygraph as a reason they think he is guilty. These are people I respect. After the reading I have done on polygraphs, their validity keeps coming down to the skill/experience of the examiner and the circumstances immediately surrounding the test. When I heard the examiner was new I wanted further information and have been attempting to get it. My guess since my police friends have not answered the question, there is some truth to it.
I am hoping K9 Lurker will clear it up since he/she talked directly to the officer and they were willing to give information. I would like to know when he received his certification and if he was truly an apprentice, was his teacher there for the exam. Also, was it given, like I was told, following several hours of questioning on the night of the visitation.

I have no idea how many officers you have spoken to or if they were involved in the case or not, but I do find it strange that out of all the reasons to think KJ guilty, that the polygraph is the biggie. The night of the visitation was about a week after Nona's death and KJ had spoken to LE more than once. If he didn't have a clue by then what he was going to be asked and couldn't answer truthfully, I can't imagine that he would have passed the next day or the next month. Maybe not even the next year.

Anyway, the polygraph doesn't mean that much to me personally. I guess it carries more weight with LE. :shrug:

[christina]

I have no idea how many officers you have spoken to or if they were involved in the case or not, but I do find it strange that out of all the reasons to think KJ guilty, that the polygraph is the biggie. The night of the visitation was about a week after Nona's death and KJ had spoken to LE more than once. If he didn't have a clue by then what he was going to be asked and couldn't answer truthfully, I can't imagine that he would have passed the next day or the next month. Maybe not even the next year.

Anyway, the polygraph doesn't mean that much to me personally. I guess it carries more weight with LE. :shrug:

I did not know Jones had spoken with LE between the murder and the visitation! Thanks for filling me in.

[christina]

What effect, if any, do you all think the airing of a show will have on the investigation?

[lorettalockhorn]

I did not know Jones had spoken with LE between the murder and the visitation! Thanks for filling me in.


Haven't you and others posted about him being questioned (unfairly) the night of the murder? Didn't Frost plainly state that in the PCS? Is that not a given? Guess I better do some 'vestigatin' of my own to clarify that.

[LurkerNoMore]

What effect, if any, do you all think the airing of a show will have on the investigation?

It can't hurt. More interest is a good thing. I'm sure it will bring some new faces here.

Regardless of where we each individually stand, it will cast a spotlight on the case, and maybe some truth will shine through.

As long as people don't forget, there's a chance there still might be justice for Nona.

[christina]

Haven't you and others posted about him being questioned (unfairly) the night of the murder? Didn't Frost plainly state that in the PCS? Is that not a given? Guess I better do some 'vestigatin' of my own to clarify that.


I was referring to this specific statement in your previous post- The night of the visitation was about a week after Nona's death and KJ had spoken to LE more than once. I assumed your meaning was Jones had spoken with police another time, between the murder and the visitation.
I do not think it was "unfair" for police to question Jones the night of the murder. To do so at that time was good police work.

[christina]

It can't hurt. More interest is a good thing. I'm sure it will bring some new faces here.

Regardless of where we each individually stand, it will cast a spotlight on the case, and maybe some truth will shine through.

As long as people don't forget, there's a chance there still might be justice for Nona.

Agreed!
The impression I get from what the prosecution said following the trial is that they are not going to procedd with any further investigation of another suspect. I think it was in a Courier article that police said the case is with the prosecutor and until he tells them to do something, they aren't going to.
I do think new/different people looking at it would help.

[lorettalockhorn]

I was referring to this specific statement in your previous post- The night of the visitation was about a week after Nona's death and KJ had spoken to LE more than once. I assumed your meaning was Jones had spoken with police another time, between the murder and the visitation.
I do not think it was "unfair" for police to question Jones the night of the murder. To do so at that time was good police work.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that KJ was questioned the night of the murder (and yes, there has been hue and cry that he was locked in the room and recorded without his knowledge and couldn't have his mommy, etc.) and was also questioned the night of the visitation. Then, later that night, he also took the polygraph; therefore, he had spoken to LE on two occasions. IMO, he should have had a clue what was going to be asked and should have been able to tell the truth successfully at that point.

Someone please straighten me out if KJ only had one interview (or more than two) before the polygraph. (Weren't the interview dates addressed in court?) There are several things that after all this time, I'm not clear about. TYIA

[sololobo]

Oh, okay. I guess he normally cards doors to get access to places, which doesn't seem like an admirable character trait, but whatever.

I card my door if I lock myself out. Kevin was given a key by Nona which implies consent for him to access her apartment. I don't believe this indicates I have a character fault nor would it Kevin.

[sololobo]

IMO trying to break into someone's apartment definitely indicates a sense of urgency. Do you think K.Jo didn't know where Mrs. Dipert, the mother of his long-time very, very exclusive girlfriend, who thought of him like a son, lived? IMO K.Jo intentionally waited to call just long enough and probably left out enough information that Duane Dipert would not have the time or understanding of the seriousness of the situation to do anything before K.Jo could break in and contaminate the scene.

I didn't know Skyline Drive was that close to Nona's street until this case and I looked at a map of the area. FDinLaw didn't know it either. And it was entirely possible Kevin didn't know about the close proximity of Nona's apartment and the Dipert's house.

[sololobo]

What about K.Jo saying Nona's "Little" canceled their plans for the evening. Also, IMO the proposal story was a lie. Also, the fact that he said he only cheated on Nona once. Oh, yeah, and I guess he said he left his house at 11:45, when even his own Christian-looking grandmother says she saw him at 11:30. I think there are other, bigger lies but that is JMO.

I don't know when he said Nona's plans with the girl were cancelled but why would such a statement imply he killed Nona? This sounds like, at most, he was misinformed.

Nona had told her mother they planned to marry. Why would lying about his intent to propose indicate he killed her?

I would like to see his comment on cheating on Nona in context. Was he referring to a certain time frame?

The PCS statement said he left at 11:45. Did he actually say this in his statements? And if his grandmother wanted to perjure herself to help Kevin, she would have testified she saw him earlier than 11:30.

[sololobo]

You're such a kidder! :hat: KJ lies have been enumerated several times.

I think it's possible that the jury was tainted because I read part of an email that was posted on another board from a friend of RW's that his/her uncle (knowing that they are close friends), served on the jury and that the relationship was close enough that the man felt compelled to call and relay the verdict. That has also been posted. More than once.

I've seen many "lies" by Kevin posted here but most have no backup or are insignificant and have no bearing on the case.

I cannot assume the jury was tainted because of some email posted at another site said so. I would need more reliable information.

[hawgustusgloop]

I card my door if I lock myself out. Kevin was given a key by Nona which implies consent for him to access her apartment. I don't believe this indicates I have a character fault nor would it Kevin.

IMO it's not breaking in for you if you actually live there. Just because you give someone a key does not necessarily mean he is welcome to come and go as he pleases. I once gave a roommate a key to my car in case I locked my keys in or something, but that surely didn't mean my roommate was allowed to drive my car anytime.

[sololobo]

I am just curious, and I mean no disrespect by asking, but do you really believe K.Jo didn't tell ANY lies throughout the investigation? That idea just boggles my mind. What about everyone else who tends to believe K.Jo didn't murder Nona? Do you all think he didn't tell any lies at all?

I don't think Kevin told any relevant lies. If anyone talks for hours, they are bound to say something that could be interpreted as a lie.

[hawgustusgloop]

I didn't know Skyline Drive was that close to Nona's street until this case and I looked at a map of the area. FDinLaw didn't know it either. And it was entirely possible Kevin didn't know about the close proximity of Nona's apartment and the Dipert's house.

What is the difference? K.Jo waited until he was practically at Nona's doorstep before calling to ask if they'd heard from her, even though he was worried enough about her to try to break in to her apartment. IMO even if K.Jo did ask for a key, and DD had it, he probably didn't even have time to grab the key and roll down the hill before K.Jo was busy IMO contaminating the scene. I wonder if he told Mr. Dipert that he intended to break in?

[hawgustusgloop]

I don't know when he said Nona's plans with the girl were cancelled but why would such a statement imply he killed Nona? This sounds like, at most, he was misinformed.

Nona had told her mother they planned to marry. Why would lying about his intent to propose indicate he killed her?

I would like to see his comment on cheating on Nona in context. Was he referring to a certain time frame?

The PCS statement said he left at 11:45. Did he actually say this in his statements? And if his grandmother wanted to perjure herself to help Kevin, she would have testified she saw him earlier than 11:30.

Who said those lies proved K.Jo killed anyone? I believe someone asked what lies he told, and those IMO were lies. IIRC, he was asked if he had ever cheated on Nona, and he replied that he had once. My memory may be a little fuzzy, but I don't think the question was, "Have you cheated on Nona in the last week or so?"

As far as his grandmother trying to help K.Jo by testifying she saw him earlier than 11:30......wasn't she at the gas station? Maybe there was an employee or someone else who was there up until that point who could verify that K.Jo was not there? Her story had to check out, too.

[hawgustusgloop]

I've seen many "lies" by Kevin posted here but most have no backup or are insignificant and have no bearing on the case.

I cannot assume the jury was tainted because of some email posted at another site said so. I would need more reliable information.


I don't think anyone here ever asked anyone else to assume that the jury rumor is true. I am not sure anyone completely believes it at this point anyway. I personally find it very interesting and would love to know if it is true.

[hawgustusgloop]

I don't think Kevin told any relevant lies. If anyone talks for hours, they are bound to say something that could be interpreted as a lie.

Lying to police about your relationship with the victim of a brutal murder is relevant IMO. They had broken up as recently as Thanksgiving and had both cheated on each other. He had sex with another girl a week before her death. Yet, he painted a picture of their relationship as all rainbows and sunshine and claimed he was going to propose that night.

[LurkerNoMore]

Lying to police about your relationship with the victim of a brutal murder is relevant IMO. They had broken up as recently as Thanksgiving and had both cheated on each other. He had sex with another girl a week before her death. Yet, he painted a picture of their relationship as all rainbows and sunshine and claimed he was going to propose that night.

I think you have to look at the context of his statements. The emotion, the overwhelming sadness and grief, the shock. The statements you are refering to here, I believe, all came from the first interrogation. He was in tears, upset, in shock. His words showed that he loved Nona.

The fact that they cheated on each other doesn't mean that they didn't love each other deeply.

[nobody]

I think you have to look at the context of his statements. The emotion, the overwhelming sadness and grief, the shock. The statements you are refering to here, I believe, all came from the first interrogation. He was in tears, upset, in shock. His words showed that he loved Nona.

The fact that they cheated on each other doesn't mean that they didn't love each other deeply.

Perhaps "Shock" isn't the best word for Kevin's description that day. Surely, the EMT would have treated all three witnesses before whisking them away and locking Kevin in the interregation room followed by a polygraph. Another thought - I've read that when you take a polygraph, it judges your nervous reactions (heartbeat changes, etc.) Wouldn't it make sense to wait a day or two instead of giving this test hours after someone witnesses their love beaten to death? ...Just more evidence that this polygraph should not be considered - along with the fact that all suspects did not take it. Usually, I believe that polygraphs are good tools that help lead investigators in the right direction - but since all avenues were not available in this test, perhaps it was a waste of time. Maybe they should have just thrown him into Lake Dardenelle to see if he would float or sink. (Sarcasm)
References: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5477

[oxfordwebster]

Maybe they should have just thrown him into Lake Dardenelle to see if he would float or sink. (Sarcasm)Since the jurors were able to make decisions based on how they thought Christians couldn't lie, I say that this is a fine idea and just as adequate as trial by ignorant jury.

[nobody]

Just to narrow it down - Methodist. However, I'm curious since lying Christians seem to be getting the attack here - at what point in the trial were the Jone's family declared "Christians"? Were there signs on their back? Did they start their statements with "We are Christians." Was this part of questioning, or was it an added defense?

I'm not defending - just clarifying. I am Agnostic, so I have no reason to defend the Jury's religious view.

[k9 lurker]

Thank you for this first hand information! Did you ask anything else-when he was certified? Did he say the conditions surrounding the exam, was it after several hours of Jones being questioned?
What about if York was asked to take one?

I did not ask about his certification. He did say that it was done the night of the visitation and he wanted to take the exam that night. I do not know how long he had been interviewed before the exam. He did say that the exam was done before the time of the visitation.

[oxfordwebster]

Just to narrow it down - Methodist. However, I'm curious since lying Christians seem to be getting the attack here - at what point in the trial were the Jone's family declared "Christians"? Were there signs on their back? Did they start their statements with "We are Christians." Was this part of questioning, or was it an added defense?

I'm not defending - just clarifying. I am Agnostic, so I have no reason to defend the Jury's religious view.Go find some of the juror's statements about how they came to decisions about the verdict and it will make a lot more sense.

[lorettalockhorn]

I didn't know Skyline Drive was that close to Nona's street until this case and I looked at a map of the area. FDinLaw didn't know it either. And it was entirely possible Kevin didn't know about the close proximity of Nona's apartment and the Dipert's house.

Betcha Mr. Pizza Deliveryboy knew exactly the proximity.

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't know when he said Nona's plans with the girl were cancelled but why would such a statement imply he killed Nona? This sounds like, at most, he was misinformed.

Nona had told her mother they planned to marry. Why would lying about his intent to propose indicate he killed her?

I would like to see his comment on cheating on Nona in context. Was he referring to a certain time frame?

The PCS statement said he left at 11:45. Did he actually say this in his statements? And if his grandmother wanted to perjure herself to help Kevin, she would have testified she saw him earlier than 11:30.

These lies that KJ told merely indicate that he is a liar and IMO serve as a barometer of his character.

Grandmother Jones had to solidify her own alibi, or she probably would have put him at the station earlier. She can't say that she was with Kevin, if for instance, she was yakking away on the phone about The Price Is Right or at the ATM getting Kev's lunch money.

[hawgustusgloop]

Perhaps "Shock" isn't the best word for Kevin's description that day. Surely, the EMT would have treated all three witnesses before whisking them away and locking Kevin in the interregation room followed by a polygraph. Another thought - I've read that when you take a polygraph, it judges your nervous reactions (heartbeat changes, etc.) Wouldn't it make sense to wait a day or two instead of giving this test hours after someone witnesses their love beaten to death? ...Just more evidence that this polygraph should not be considered - along with the fact that all suspects did not take it. Usually, I believe that polygraphs are good tools that help lead investigators in the right direction - but since all avenues were not available in this test, perhaps it was a waste of time. Maybe they should have just thrown him into Lake Dardenelle to see if he would float or sink. (Sarcasm)
References: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5477

Wow. Aside from the notion that you claim K.Jo witnessed Nona being beaten to death........am I mistaken, or did the polygraph take place days after Nona's murder? I didn't think they polygraphed him the night of the murder. I thought it was the day of the visitation. Is this anywhere on your thread of "facts"?

[nobody]

misunderstood twist of words...

[lorettalockhorn]

Perhaps "Shock" isn't the best word for Kevin's description that day. Surely, the EMT would have treated all three witnesses before whisking them away and locking Kevin in the interregation room followed by a polygraph. Another thought - I've read that when you take a polygraph, it judges your nervous reactions (heartbeat changes, etc.) Wouldn't it make sense to wait a day or two instead of giving this test hours after someone witnesses their love beaten to death? ...Just more evidence that this polygraph should not be considered - along with the fact that all suspects did not take it. Usually, I believe that polygraphs are good tools that help lead investigators in the right direction - but since all avenues were not available in this test, perhaps it was a waste of time. Maybe they should have just thrown him into Lake Dardenelle to see if he would float or sink. (Sarcasm)
References: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5477

The EMT whisked away the witnesses and locked Kevin in the interrogation room? I'm in shock myself!

Just kidding. I'm relatively certain that the polygraph was administered the night of Nona's visitation, not the night of the murder. I believe that K9 has verified that.

KJ should have been practicing lying in the time between the murder and the time that he took the polygraph so that he could pass. SusieQ posted at one point that he did pass; I wonder if the defense administered a test of their own.

[christina]

I did not ask about his certification. He did say that it was done the night of the visitation and he wanted to take the exam that night. I do not know how long he had been interviewed before the exam. He did say that the exam was done before the time of the visitation.

Thanks for the info. If you find out any more I'ld appreciate knowing.

[nobody]

I didn't know Skyline Drive was that close to Nona's street until this case and I looked at a map of the area. FDinLaw didn't know it either. And it was entirely possible Kevin didn't know about the close proximity of Nona's apartment and the Dipert's house.

In Carol's interview - she says that KJ regularly came to dinner and to watch television at the Dipert house.

KJ also grew up considerably close to this area. It would be naive to believe he didn't know the relative locations. (IMO), KJ knew that DD's relationship with ND was distant, possibly making KJ's relationship with DD that much more distant and that is possibly why he asked for Carol and did not display any more concern.

Correct me if I am wrong (locals), but there is (use to be) a break in the trees somewhere near this location on Skyline Dr. - where you can view the city and get a perspective of location.

[christina]

In Carol's interview - she says that KJ regularly came to dinner and to watch television at the Dipert house.

KJ also grew up considerably close to this area. It would be naive to believe he didn't know the relative locations. (IMO), KJ knew that DD's relationship with ND was distant, possibly making KJ's relationship with DD that much more distant and that is possibly why he asked for Carol and did not display any more concern.

Correct me if I am wrong (locals), but there is (use to be) a break in the trees somewhere near this location on Skyline Dr. - where you can view the city and get a perspective of location.

During the trial I drove to the apartments to look around. Specifically to see for myself if the neighbor could see/hear clearly a person coming in and out of Nona's apartment. Directly adjacent to the apartments are the big power lines with the ground cleared under them. I then drove up to Skyline and found where the power lines come out. It is across from the house I was told was the Dipert's.
As for Nona and Duane Dipert's relationship- Can you elaborate on your comment on Nona and Duane Dipert's relationship being distant? I wondered because she moved out as soon as she graduated from high school. It seems someone/somewhere it was said the Dipert's married shortly before that. So, I imagine Jones would have spent most of his time with Carol and Nona at their house, not the Diperts. Still, I agree, Jones would have known where the Skyline house was.

[nobody]

DD said, in his interview that the relationship with ND was distant. He also mentioned help paint a house in Dover - so maybe the television/dinners happened there.
ND graduated in 04'. Her apartment neighbors said she had been there for about 6 months (July05'?) - so about a year later, in her sophmore year... I imagine she would feel a little bit crowded, if nothing else, from DD. She probably would not have respected his new role - as expected.

Reference: http://princess-tifa.blogspot.com/2005_12_01_archive.html

http://www.couriernews.com/archivedstory.php?ID=15766

[christina]

DD said, in his interview that the relationship with ND was distant. He also mentioned help paint a house in Dover - so maybe the television/dinners happened there.
ND graduated in 04'. Her apartment neighbors said she had been there for about 6 months (July05'?) - so within a year... I imagine she would feel a little bit crowed, if nothing else, from DD. She probably would not have respected his new role - as expected.

I didn't catch that in the article. I will have to re read it.
One trial witness was a roommate she had prior to living in the apartment where she was murdered. That is how I came up with the dates I have.
One of the decisions the prosecutors made in the trial that I think hurt their case was using up several witnesses to talk about how security minded Nona was. Besides the witnesses being weak, it was hard to figure out what point they were making and to what end.

[christina]

DD said, in his interview that the relationship with ND was distant. He also mentioned help paint a house in Dover - so maybe the television/dinners happened there.
ND graduated in 04'. Her apartment neighbors said she had been there for about 6 months (July05'?) - so about a year later, in her sophmore year... I imagine she would feel a little bit crowded, if nothing else, from DD. She probably would not have respected his new role - as expected.

Reference: http://princess-tifa.blogspot.com/2005_12_01_archive.html

http://www.couriernews.com/archivedstory.php?ID=15766

Thanks for the link to the article. What is the first one for?

[nobody]

Thanks for the link to the article. What is the first one for?

Through this link - if you press CTRL F and type "Dirksmeyer" - you will get the article. Squint your eye to verify her grad date - at the bottom. (I had a hard time finding clarification, on that date, elsewhere.)

[hawgustusgloop]

Through this link - if you press CTRL F and type "Dirksmeyer" - you will get the article. Squint your eye to verify her grad date - at the bottom. (I had a hard time finding clarification, on that date, elsewhere.)

???????

That information is easily found in Nona's obituary, which is on the first page of your own "facts" thread. That link doesn't work, by the way.

:confused:

[christina]

Through this link - if you press CTRL F and type "Dirksmeyer" - you will get the article. Squint your eye to verify her grad date - at the bottom. (I had a hard time finding clarification, on that date, elsewhere.)

Got it, thank you for the links, they both worked fine.

[sololobo]

In Carol's interview - she says that KJ regularly came to dinner and to watch television at the Dipert house.

KJ also grew up considerably close to this area. It would be naive to believe he didn't know the relative locations. (IMO), KJ knew that DD's relationship with ND was distant, possibly making KJ's relationship with DD that much more distant and that is possibly why he asked for Carol and did not display any more concern.

Correct me if I am wrong (locals), but there is (use to be) a break in the trees somewhere near this location on Skyline Dr. - where you can view the city and get a perspective of location.

Kevin grew up in Dover and I was born in Russellville many decades before Kevin. I have driven Skyline and W. 12 and S. Inglewood countless times. I knew there was a powerline going up the hill from the apartments and I knew there was a powerline coming up the hill on Skyline but I never realized they were one in the same. I never noticed the close proximity until I saw it on a map during this case. Yes, there are several breaks in the trees along Skyline but I never really looked. I'm sure if I had, I would have noticed the proximity. I would guess most people in Russellville, and especially Dover, would not be aware of this either.

[sololobo]

Since the jurors were able to make decisions based on how they thought Christians couldn't lie, I say that this is a fine idea and just as adequate as trial by ignorant jury.

The jury was not ignorant. They delivered an intelligent, unbiased verdict based on information put forth during the trial.

[LurkerNoMore]

The EMT whisked away the witnesses and locked Kevin in the interrogation room? I'm in shock myself!

Just kidding. I'm relatively certain that the polygraph was administered the night of Nona's visitation, not the night of the murder. I believe that K9 has verified that.

KJ should have been practicing lying in the time between the murder and the time that he took the polygraph so that he could pass. SusieQ posted at one point that he did pass; I wonder if the defense administered a test of their own.

Just curious why you take k9's word that he/she verified information? *cough* double standard *cough*

[lorettalockhorn]

Just curious why you take k9's word that he/she verified information? *cough* double standard *cough*

What I was trying to say that K9 verified, was that the polygraph test was administered the night of the visitation, not the night of the murder. I should be more careful about how I state things; I'll work on that. (Pretty sure that the fact that KJ took the polygraph the night of the visitation had already been stated.)

As for K9 being believable, he/she stated that the information came from Glover and since he/she is willing to state a source, I'm going to give that more credibility than some nebulous connection to the case that others seem to have.

[christina]

What I was trying to say that K9 verified, was that the polygraph test was administered the night of the visitation, not the night of the murder. I should be more careful about how I state things; I'll work on that. (Pretty sure that the fact that KJ took the polygraph the night of the visitation had already been stated.)

As for K9 being believable, he/she stated that the information came from Glover and since he/she is willing to state a source, I'm going to give that more credibility than some nebulous connection to the case that others seem to have.

I think it is good that K9Lurker was able to speak directly to the officer. (I am giving K9 the benefit of the doubt that they are telling the truth to us about this). I wonder if the officer knows/agreed to having that put out on a public board? As I said previously about my sources- "I will not do my sources the discourtesy of posting their names on a public message board." However, if they give me permission I will.
I am looking forward to K9 being able to get the answers to the other questions from the officer and posting them here- did York refuse taking a polygraph? I was able to verify(more than one source) the information I was told about York refusing but like I said before, the officers I spoke with have not (will not)verified the experience of the examiner. That question is valid to me especially now that K9 reports that the examiner said Jones "failed worse than he had ever seen". How much has he seen?

[christina]

Solo, you are such a kidder and I love that about you!!

Surely you know that I am speaking of (what appears to me) the fact that you accept what Christina posts although it would seem that she is biased, forgetful, flipflops, has selective hearing and (yikes, is it possible?) lies?

Not to mention, after she posts unsubstantiated rumors and the results of her investigation, claims that she is being baited when people ask for her to name her secret sources. The ones that she has access to, but no one including the media seems to.

Thanks for interpreting my garbled post about being reliable/unreliable. The point I'm trying to make here, is that most of us are willing to state that rumors are just that; rumors. She is not willing to do that. Some of us are still waiting for the big announcement that Trey York's mother called the PCSD to ask about her son's girlfriend, for instance. Wouldn't that go a long way to convicting him????

In the history of this board many have claimed to have "priveldged" information, things the rest of the posters did not seem to have access to. Examples form the beginning would be dthb and FDInLaw. They often stated things that no one, inlcuding the press, seemed to know. They were not questioned about that.
As for the relationship of the Courier, the police and some laywers in town- Ms. Ginoccio hurt herself there. From what I understand, the police are still on a no comment basis with her and the editor.
If you live in the area Loretta (or anyone else) you have the same access I do and can ask the same questions of people that I do. And you can then come back here and post them.
To those of you that do not live in the area- the public consensus appears to remain that Jones "got away with murder". I was told the Jones family also has received death threats

[lorettalockhorn]

I think it is good that K9Lurker was able to speak directly to the officer. (I am giving K9 the benefit of the doubt that they are telling the truth to us about this). I wonder if the officer knows/agreed to having that put out on a public board? As I said previously about my sources- "I will not do my sources the discourtesy of posting their names on a public message board." However, if they give me permission I will.
I am looking forward to K9 being able to get the answers to the other questions from the officer and posting them here- did York refuse taking a polygraph? I was able to verify(more than one source) the information I was told about York refusing but like I said before, the officers I spoke with have not (will not)verified the experience of the examiner. That question is valid to me especially now that K9 reports that the examiner said Jones "failed worse than he had ever seen". How much has he seen?

You just don't get it. It is because K9 named his source that I have a tendency to believe him/her. If he/she told me that it was a double secret blind truth, I would probably call him/her on it and consider the information rumor being posted by someone who is trying to inflate his/her own esteem. (Because it would be easy enough for Glover to refute the information.)

Why would anyone give you information and then swear you to secrecy about using them as a source? I mean, really?

The polygraph wasn't considered by the possibly tainted jury, so it really isn't of that much interest to me. With the exception that apparently LE may have put so much stock in "evidence" that is not admissable in court.

[lorettalockhorn]

In the history of this board many have claimed to have "priveldged" information, things the rest of the posters did not seem to have access to. Examples form the beginning would be dthb and FDInLaw. They often stated things that no one, inlcuding the press, seemed to know. They were not questioned about that.
As for the relationship of the Courier, the police and some laywers in town- Ms. Ginoccio hurt herself there. From what I understand, the police are still on a no comment basis with her and the editor.
If you live in the area Loretta (or anyone else) you have the same access I do and can ask the same questions of people that I do. And you can then come back here and post them.
To those of you that do not live in the area- the public consensus appears to remain that Jones "got away with murder". I was told the Jones family also has received death threats

Personally, I never put a lot of stock in what dtbh said. I don't have a problem with FDInlaw's source(s) of information and I am frankly surprised that anyone does.

Didn't know that The Courier and RPD had broken ties, I've read quite a few items lately, maybe I missed that there were no direct quotations from the department. Thanks for letting us know.

I realize that I could go out and interview people; but I'd rather not budget attorneys fees to get information, and I'm relatively sure that LE and the State have better things to do than talk to every Tom, Dick and Harry that walks in off the street. Besides, I have things that need to be done. Surely this information will be released at some point and the sources will be clear.

Yeah, I've heard rumors of death threats too. Going back to the victim (and her family) of the alleged rape being intimidated.

[christina]

You just don't get it. It is because K9 named his source that I have a tendency to believe him/her. If he/she told me that it was a double secret blind truth, I would probably call him/her on it and consider the information rumor being posted by someone who is trying to inflate his/her own esteem. (Because it would be easy enough for Glover to refute the information.)

Why would anyone give you information and then swear you to secrecy about using them as a source? I mean, really?

The polygraph wasn't considered by the possibly tainted jury, so it really isn't of that much interest to me. With the exception that apparently LE may have put so much stock in "evidence" that is not admissable in court.

What I am trying to get across to you is that you seem to be blind to your bias. You think Jones is guilty and as such gladly accept information brought forward, regardless of whether the poster has a source or not, if that information shows guilt on Jones part.

I understand your explanation of why you do not put stock in the importance of the lie detector. I do want to find out more because it is one thing that was used in the investigation that police used to focus on Jones.

[lorettalockhorn]

What I am trying to get across to you is that you seem to be blind to your bias. You think Jones is guilty and as such gladly accept information brought forward, regardless of whether the poster has a source or not, if that information shows guilt on Jones part.

I understand your explanation of why you do not put stock in the importance of the lie detector. I do want to find out more because it is one thing that was used in the investigation that police used to focus on Jones.

How am I blinded by bias at this point? I reserved final judgement of whether or not KJ was guilty until I heard the evidence from the experts re: the bloody print and most specifically the alibi. You have been biased from the get go from what I can tell, and decided on what? the first or second day of the trial that he was not guilty? PUHLEEZ give me a break.

The polygraph isn't important to me because a lying, philandering boy with a powerful motive to kill and with no alibi left his bloody print on an extension of the murder weapon at the time of the murder. Please return to your investigation and ask LE why the polygraph carried more weight than physical evidence, if you feel that is the case.

Nuff said?

[christina]

How am I blinded by bias at this point? I reserved final judgement of whether or not KJ was guilty until I heard the evidence from the experts re: the bloody print and most specifically the alibi. You have been biased from the get go from what I can tell, and decided on what? the first or second day of the trial that he was not guilty? PUHLEEZ give me a break.

The polygraph isn't important to me because a lying, philandering boy with a powerful motive to kill and with no alibi left his bloody print on an extension of the murder weapon at the time of the murder. Please return to your investigation and ask LE why the polygraph carried more weight than physical evidence, if you feel that is the case.

Nuff said?

Thank you for making youself clear in this post. I agree- enough said about our each other's biases.

[ifIwereU]

As to the "lies" told during his interview. This has been brought up many times previously- specifically that Jones said he didn't touch anything. What I heard on the tape was Jones using the terms-"I don't think I touched anything, I don't remember touching anything". The officers asked him that question probably 4 times over the course of the interview. He never insisted he did not touch anything as it has been characterized.


my question is....if he was "so called" interviewed for hours prior to being asked to take a polygraph....where is that video or recording and were his strong denials contained therein...JMO just because it wasn't showed or brought up in court doesn't mean it didn't happen! There was a lot of things that weren't made available to the jury for various reasons to include the judge's refusal to allow it...

my limited knowledge of polygraphs is that there is a lengthly training process followed a certification process that lasts several months. I also believe that with technology progressing the way it is that in the very near future we will see polygraphs admissibility challenged with the results in favor of LE....JMO

[ifIwereU]

The murder weapon is what really made me believe that KJ was guilty of killing Nona....had that been a gun with his print in her blood I think that no one on that jury would have been able to dismiss it as accidential. The fact that it is on a lamp that was the actual murder weapon is no different to me. When I heard him in his video statement say that he put his hand in the blood to see how fresh it was.....I wanted to vomit! Why does it matter to him how fresh her blood was....you only care if it will destory your alibi! KJ showed no emotion when talking about how he felt the bone on the back of her head...it was like he was talking about walking the dog.....people can say that he was hysterical but his actions on the video indicate otherwise to me...JMO If anyone has a link to the 911 call or a transcript of it....I wanted to clarify something that I heard when the call was broadcast.....I remember when KJ was talking to the dispatcher he is providing info about the apt, the dispatcher is telling KJ to stay there and that emergncy personnel is on the way he clamly says "I'll be here".....JMO but it sounded like he had just ordered a pizza! Hysterical my rear!!! If am wrong....I know someone will correct me!

[nobody]

Why would Nona still carry the Dirksmeyer name - didn't this name come from the father that use to abuse her? It seems like Carol would have worked with Nona to have it legally changed - as a way to move on from bad times.

[lorettalockhorn]

The murder weapon is what really made me believe that KJ was guilty of killing Nona....had that been a gun with his print in her blood I think that no one on that jury would have been able to dismiss it as accidential. The fact that it is on a lamp that was the actual murder weapon is no different to me. When I heard him in his video statement say that he put his hand in the blood to see how fresh it was.....I wanted to vomit! Why does it matter to him how fresh her blood was....you only care if it will destory your alibi! KJ showed no emotion when talking about how he felt the bone on the back of her head...it was like he was talking about walking the dog.....people can say that he was hysterical but his actions on the video indicate otherwise to me...JMO If anyone has a link to the 911 call or a transcript of it....I wanted to clarify something that I heard when the call was broadcast.....I remember when KJ was talking to the dispatcher he is providing info about the apt, the dispatcher is telling KJ to stay there and that emergncy personnel is on the way he clamly says "I'll be here".....JMO but it sounded like he had just ordered a pizza! Hysterical my rear!!! If am wrong....I know someone will correct me!

I've never seen a transcript of the entire 911 call and don't know if it is available. One thing that did strike me about the convo, is that the dispatcher told KJ to stay on the line and he agreed that he would. He then apparently handed the phone to his mother and went back to manipulating Nona's body and contaminating the scene.

[ifIwereU]

I think you have to look at the context of his statements. The emotion, the overwhelming sadness and grief, the shock. The statements you are refering to here, I believe, all came from the first interrogation. He was in tears, upset, in shock. His words showed that he loved Nona.

The fact that they cheated on each other doesn't mean that they didn't love each other deeply.

Sadness and grief are not any of the words I would use to describe KJ during the video I saw.....He's talking about putting his hands in her blood to see how fresh it was and talks about feeling her bone..and not one time did he even get remotely upset when discussing the most horrorible things that happened to the love of his life. It as also curious to me how his almost white pants (they appearred white on the video, but there were probably khaki) had no smeared blood......but his face was smeared with HER blood. JMO

[lorettalockhorn]

Why would Nona still carry the Dirksmeyer name - didn't this name come from the father that use to abuse her? It seems like Carol would have worked with Nona to have it legally changed - as a way to move on from bad times.

Maybe with her abuser cold in the ground she felt that she left that part of her life (somewhat) in the past. Maybe she didn't want to deny the name carried by other relatives, her mother, grandparents, sibs, etc.


:shrug:

[nobody]

I've never seen a transcript of the entire 911 call and don't know if it is available. One thing that did strike me about the convo, is that the dispatcher told KJ to stay on the line and he agreed that he would. He then apparently handed the phone to his mother and went back to manipulating Nona's body and contaminating the scene.

I agree. Once he was on the phone and said he thought she was dead - he should have stayed back. RW and JJ should have held him back - they seemed to be of no use to KJ.

[lorettalockhorn]

I agree. Once he was on the phone and said he thought she was dead - he should have stayed back. RW and JJ should have held him back - they seemed to be of no use to KJ.


Even though I think that JJ may have known what happened (the murder) ahead of entering the apartment; I think that she was probably close to being in shock at the sight of Nona.

But I don't get why they wouldn't have immediately stepped outside, or why since they were using a cell phone, the dispatcher didn't ask them to step outside.

[christina]

I do live in the area, but I was just thinking back to your report of the phone call to the Sheriff's Office; you claimed that it was verified that York's mother called, but wouldn't give the name of whomever we should speak to if we were to make our own calls. I believe the upshot of that when ox called and did not have that information verified, was that your sources are better than his/ours. So what would be the point?

I noticed that you had posted about baiting in the derailment infraction thread, citing this forum. I think between your connection to the parties of the case and your superior attitude about why you should get away without sourcing, that it's no wonder that you feel baited, if that is the case.

The phone call was verified, well verified for me. Ox never gave her source on her call either, nor that she verified it.
I do not feel a superior attitude at all about my sources. I tried to explain why I did not always share them in a previous post. I also spoke with Freshwater about it and felt assured I was not breaking the rules.

[hawgustusgloop]

Maybe with her abuser cold in the ground she felt that she left that part of her life (somewhat) in the past. Maybe she didn't want to deny the name carried by other relatives, her mother, grandparents, sibs, etc.

:shrug:

No kidding. My guess is that it would be much more natural and easy to keep the name she had since birth than to have to explain to everyone she knows why she decided to change it. Before her mom remarried, what else would she change it to anyway?

[ifIwereU]

Even though I think that JJ may have known what happened (the murder) ahead of entering the apartment; I think that she was probably close to being in shock at the sight of Nona.

But I don't get why they wouldn't have immediately stepped outside, or why since they were using a cell phone, the dispatcher didn't ask them to step outside.

I remember hearing on the call that JJ specficially tells the boys (as she called them) don't touch anything, because as the dispatcher is asking her quesitons about the apartment....JJ realizes what has happened....i.e. the murder....not necessarily that KJ did it, but there was clearly a different tone to her voice.....JMO

[christina]

I agree. Once he was on the phone and said he thought she was dead - he should have stayed back. RW and JJ should have held him back - they seemed to be of no use to KJ.

Agreed. But we are expecting civilians to know more than professionals here. Didn't the firemen/EMT's arrived simultaneously with the police? The only testimony offered about someone attempting to take control of the scene was the EMT when she asked Jones to move away from the body. If I remember correctly, at that time there were 2 EMT's, 2 firemen and a police officer in the apartment. The first officer on scene not only didn't remove Jones from the apartment, he had him take him on a tour of the entire place.
My understanding is the first officer on the scene starts a crime scene log as to who enters the scene and the times. When the names were read out loud in court and the times they entered I was surprised by the number and that they were in there while the invesitgating officer was working.

[christina]

I remember hearing on the call that JJ specficially tells the boys (as she called them) don't touch anything, because as the dispatcher is asking her quesitons about the apartment....JJ realizes what has happened....i.e. the murder....not necessarily that KJ did it, but there was clearly a different tone to her voice.....JMO

So you were in court as well- did they say that the tape they played was the entire tape? I thought they did but am not positive. It was hard to listen to, emotionally, wasn't it?
What made you think from listening to the tape that Jones mother knew it was a murder, from the tone change?

[ifIwereU]

Even though I think that JJ may have known what happened (the murder) ahead of entering the apartment; I think that she was probably close to being in shock at the sight of Nona.

But I don't get why they wouldn't have immediately stepped outside, or why since they were using a cell phone, the dispatcher didn't ask them to step outside.


based on my opinion of KJs statement (video) it was apparent that he believed or knew (which ever side of the fence your on) that Nona had been murdered....but never thought of his saftey or that of his mom or RW when he was in the apartment....it was like he never considered that the perp might still be in the apartment....maybe that's why the put his hand in the blood to see how fresh it was....maybe I'm just too analytical.....

[hawgustusgloop]

(All snipped quotes)
The things mentioned previously by the prosecution and the PCS- Jones being calm on the 911 tape, "Jones told RPD Officer Beyette that Jones watched a lot of Law and Order, a television show which Afflant knows to deal with forensic science and crime scene analysis" , affiant stating Jones said he "laid on top of her and “rubbed his hands over the blood to see how fresh it was", and many others are not just subject to interpretation, some are blantantly false.

When I heard him in his video statement say that he put his hand in the blood to see how fresh it was.....I wanted to vomit! Why does it matter to him how fresh her blood was....you only care if it will destory your alibi!

Sadness and grief are not any of the words I would use to describe KJ during the video I saw.....He's talking about putting his hands in her blood to see how fresh it was and talks about feeling her bone..

So, did he actually say that on the video or not? I for some reason believed he didn't say it, but now I am not so sure.

[ifIwereU]

So you were in court as well- did they say that the tape they played was the entire tape? I thought they did but am not positive. It was hard to listen to, emotionally, wasn't it?
What made you think from listening to the tape that Jones mother knew it was a murder, from the tone change?

I was there for some, but not all of the trial....the statement was not as hard to listen or watch since, IMO KJ showed very little emotion when discussing any aspect of his relationship with Nona or the crime scene....I was kind of disgusted really....

they had to redact portions of the tape supposedly where KJ admits to drug use...
as far as my impression of his mother on the 911 call.... it was like she was describing the scene to the dispatcher and it was like it clicked in her mind...because if I recall when she first got on the phone with 911 she described it as an "accident" then later on she's describing the scene and it was a completely different tone of voice...she seemed almost more frightened

[ifIwereU]

(All snipped quotes)I clearly heard it.....I also heard him say that he put his hand on the back of her head to see what was wrong and felt the bone....I don't want to misquote KJ...if I am wrong, I guess I will owe him an apology but I think he further described it as "jagged bone"....not sure on that one though...my note taking days have long been behind me....but for some reason that is stuck in my mind....mainly because I was so appalled by the statment.

I have a friend that is a coroner in another county and they were amazed by the actions of KJ at the scene....my friend has over 25 years of experience at death scenes and have never had any family member or loved one react the way KJ did with Nona....makes me a believer!





So, did he actually say that on the video or not? I for some reason believed he didn't say it, but now I am not so sure.[QUOTE=hawgustusgloop;8976561](All snipped quotes)I clearly heard it.....I also heard him say that he put his hand on the back of her head to see what was wrong and felt the bone....I don't want to misquote KJ...if I am wrong, I guess I will owe him an apology but I think he further described it as "jagged bone"....not sure on that one though...my note taking days have long been behind me....but for some reason that is stuck in my mind....mainly because I was so appalled by the statment.

I have a friend that is a coroner in another county and they were amazed by the actions of KJ at the scene....my friend has over 25 years of experience at death scenes and have never had any family member or loved one react the way KJ did with Nona....makes me a believer!

[lorettalockhorn]

The phone call was verified, well verified for me. Ox never gave her source on her call either, nor that she verified it.
I do not feel a superior attitude at all about my sources. I tried to explain why I did not always share them in a previous post. I also spoke with Freshwater about it and felt assured I was not breaking the rules.

I did not ask ox to verify his call since you refused to. Apparently, it is not necessary to cite sources. I have apparently misread the rules, as you have been allowed to claim inside information and better sources (I think that's how you stated it), than the rest of us without impunity.

I will do my level best to adjust.

[ifIwereU]

Agreed. But we are expecting civilians to know more than professionals here. Didn't the firemen/EMT's arrived simultaneously with the police? The only testimony offered about someone attempting to take control of the scene was the EMT when she asked Jones to move away from the body. If I remember correctly, at that time there were 2 EMT's, 2 firemen and a police officer in the apartment. The first officer on scene not only didn't remove Jones from the apartment, he had him take him on a tour of the entire place.
My understanding is the first officer on the scene starts a crime scene log as to who enters the scene and the times. When the names were read out loud in court and the times they entered I was surprised by the number and that they were in there while the invesitgating officer was working.

you don't have to be a professional to employ common sense.....JJ and RW were running around trying to figure where in the heck they were at....they didn't know the address.....so they clearly did not have time to make sure KJ was not touching anything....or they could not have known if he did or did not touch anything.....

there was another distinction on the phone call that I recall JJ's voice changing is when she realizes that an ambulance is on the way....her voice gets higher and she tells the dispatcher that Nona's mother works at the hospital...like she's concerned that CD will find out when her daughter is transported or by hearing through the grapevine....

[hawgustusgloop]

I clearly heard it.....I also heard him say that he put his hand on the back of her head to see what was wrong and felt the bone....I don't want to misquote KJ...if I am wrong, I guess I will owe him an apology but I think he further described it as "jagged bone"....not sure on that one though...my note taking days have long been behind me....but for some reason that is stuck in my mind....mainly because I was so appalled by the statment.

I have a friend that is a coroner in another county and they were amazed by the actions of KJ at the scene....my friend has over 25 years of experience at death scenes and have never had any family member or loved one react the way KJ did with Nona....makes me a believer!

Well, maybe he really did say it then. I guess I was just too naive back then to really question what was being reported here.

[lorettalockhorn]

based on my opinion of KJs statement (video) it was apparent that he believed or knew (which ever side of the fence your on) that Nona had been murdered....but never thought of his saftey or that of his mom or RW when he was in the apartment....it was like he never considered that the perp might still be in the apartment....maybe that's why the put his hand in the blood to see how fresh it was....maybe I'm just too analytical.....

The whole discovery situation and scene is just bizarre to me. I do think JJ knew that Nona was most likely dead and that Kevin killed her; I just don't think that she was psychically (is that a word? LOL) prepared for the murder scene. How could she be?

Good point about the killer still being inside the apartment, isn't that another reason the dispatcher would have told the three to get out of the apartment, since Kevin had already said that he thought that Nona was dead?

[lorettalockhorn]

I was there for some, but not all of the trial....the statement was not as hard to listen or watch since, IMO KJ showed very little emotion when discussing any aspect of his relationship with Nona or the crime scene....I was kind of disgusted really....

they had to redact portions of the tape supposedly where KJ admits to drug use...
as far as my impression of his mother on the 911 call.... it was like she was describing the scene to the dispatcher and it was like it clicked in her mind...because if I recall when she first got on the phone with 911 she described it as an "accident" then later on she's describing the scene and it was a completely different tone of voice...she seemed almost more frightened


[QUOTE=hawgustusgloop;8976561](All snipped quotes)I clearly heard it.....I also heard him say that he put his hand on the back of her head to see what was wrong and felt the bone....I don't want to misquote KJ...if I am wrong, I guess I will owe him an apology but I think he further described it as "jagged bone"....not sure on that one though...my note taking days have long been behind me....but for some reason that is stuck in my mind....mainly because I was so appalled by the statment.

I have a friend that is a coroner in another county and they were amazed by the actions of KJ at the scene....my friend has over 25 years of experience at death scenes and have never had any family member or loved one react the way KJ did with Nona....makes me a believer!

Thanks so much for those two posts. Very enlightening.

[christina]

I was there for some, but not all of the trial....the statement was not as hard to listen or watch since, IMO KJ showed very little emotion when discussing any aspect of his relationship with Nona or the crime scene....I was kind of disgusted really....

they had to redact portions of the tape supposedly where KJ admits to drug use...
as far as my impression of his mother on the 911 call.... it was like she was describing the scene to the dispatcher and it was like it clicked in her mind...because if I recall when she first got on the phone with 911 she described it as an "accident" then later on she's describing the scene and it was a completely different tone of voice...she seemed almost more frightened

I was referring to the 911 tape, not the tape of his first interview. Thank you for sharing your view. I think they only editted parts from the second interview tapes(from the night of the visitation) and then decided not to show it in court.

[nobody]

true. It does strike me as odd, that nothing is mentioned that they feared for their own safety - attacker may have been still inside. Maybe RW did a search of the house? - doubt it. Also, that none of them reported puking on scene - especially KJ. It seems too early to show anger, verses shock and remorse - I'm no psychologist, I just think my emotions would be different, a lot different.

[nobody]

I still can not see how the prosecution could have released significant evidence when they know that the defense is going to need to cross examine everything. I know there were several "oops" - but this was huge. I do not think it was deliberate - but who is to say that the phone evidence would not point to several other suspects and significantly change the case.

In other jobs, if you make this big of a mistake - do you not suffer demotion, decertification, or at least lose "cool points"?

[lorettalockhorn]

I still can not see how the prosecution could have released significant evidence when they know that the defense is going to need to cross examine everything. I know there were several "oops" - but this was huge. I do not think it was deliberate - but who is to say that the phone evidence would not point to several other suspects and significantly change the case.

In other jobs, if you make this big of a mistake - do you not suffer demotion, decertification, or at least lose "cool points"?

Kinda OT: I believe that Frost testified that the cell phone wasn't tested for prints because he assumed that it would have been contaminated by the prints of the officer who moved it from the floor. This makes me think two things. 1)Why were officers within the parameters of the crime not wearing gloves?, and 2) Since no officer came forward to admit touching the phone, why wasn't it tested to a) rule out the officer's prints and possibly ID the killer? and b) determine who the lying SOB was who wouldn't man up to having made such a serious mistake so that he could be reprimanded? Officers' prints should be on file.

Sorry, sorry, sorry business.

[nobody]

"Good morning, cuddlemuffin. I love you. Have a great day."

It seems we have been biting on this message as if it were words of love. Here is a twist - what if those were mocking words of some message ND had heard another female call KJ. What if ND had really asked KJ to leave her apartment on the night of the 14th. What if their 130am, loud phone conversation awoke JJ. What if ND was a little bit pissed that KJ called her back at 130 - when she had a final exam in almost 6hours - and the call ended on a bad note. What if JJ was concerned and got up to talk, in the middle of the night, to KJ - when she only had a few hours to sleep herself. What if ND was over-it, but thought she would give that mental daggar one more twist on KJ by sending the text.
Later - What if JJ put 2 and 2 together when they discovered the crime scene.

It is a lot of "what ifs" - I know. But it flows better than what we have heard. The fact that JJ was up that late - when she had a big day ahead of her still doesn't sit right.

[lorettalockhorn]

"Good morning, cuddlemuffin. I love you. Have a great day."

It seems we have been biting on this message as if it were words of love. Here is a twist - what if those were mocking words of some message ND had heard another female call KJ. What if ND had really asked KJ to leave her apartment on the night of the 14th. What if their 130am, loud phone conversation awoke JJ. What if ND was a little bit pissed that KJ called her back at 130 - when she had a final exam in almost 6hours - and the call ended on a bad note. What if JJ was concerned and got up to talk, in the middle of the night, to KJ - when she only had a few hours to sleep herself. What if ND was over-it, but thought she would give that mental daggar one more twist on KJ by sending the text.
Later - What if JJ put 2 and 2 together when they discovered the crime scene.

It is a lot of "what ifs" - I know. But it flows better than what we have heard. The fact that JJ was up that late - when she had a big day ahead of her still doesn't sit right.

What ifs aren't a problem for me! One of the reasons that I waited for the alibi was that I had wondered if KJ had sent the Cuddlemuffin Message to himself using Nona's phone. But if she didn't have a landline and since Frazier and Co. put him home in the morning that wasn't possible. I do think that it was presumptious that KJ kept Nona up so late the eve of two exams, a date with the Little (and a possible wedding proposal), and I do think it's odd that something made JJ get up and talk for hours to her son with whom she is only fairly close, when she needed sleep herself. I think it is very possible that Nona and Kevin broke up that night and she demanded her key back.

One of the reasons that I would like to see the landline records between the Joneses (home, station, grandmother's house), is because I can't help but wonder about KJ's date with JJ seeming to be set up and/or approved at the last minute, yet JJ testified to laying his clothes out before he was approved.

Bottom line for me: What kind of dumb luck is it for lying, philandering, cuckolded, unalibied Kevin to have been the one to find Nona?

[nobody]

If it had been up to KJ and their relationship was truly exclusive - I think he would have stayed the night again. It was very late and he obviously did not have anything of importance - except for the bathroom guys in the later morning. I think it was her decision for him leave - and her message was very possibly apologetic to that. "Cuddlemuffin" seems just too much, even from my dating days. Maybe that is just me.

[oxfordwebster]

Maybe Nona knew that Kevin had a hell of a temper, and she was trying to stave it off, hence the overly sweet text message the morning after a fight.

[nobody]

It is a stretch - but surely the bathtub guys (I get a laugh from hearing them called that) - knew the difference between KJ and his older brother. They could not have possibly mistaken Russell for Kevin. Considering Russell was in town - to see Nona driving her car that day - right?

[oxfordwebster]

It is a stretch - but surely the bathtub guys (I get a laugh from hearing them called that) - knew the difference between KJ and his older brother. They could not have possibly mistaken Russell for Kevin. Considering Russell was in town - to see Nona driving her car that day - right?I heard something that the Russell seeing Nona thing was a mistake, but I never did follow up on it or anything. I guess it'd be easy to find out by calling the Courier.

[lorettalockhorn]

Was Russell in town? Did he see Nona driving her car? Or just see her car being driven? Why would KJ report Russell's sighting of Nona to LE instead of Russell himself making a statement?

Re: The Bathtub Guys; I suppose since Frazier knows the Joneses that he would possibly be able to differentiate between Russell and Kevin. But, unless he's changed his habits (according to rumor), I would imagine him to be hungover at 9am, if not still drunk from the night before. So I would have a hard time accepting his testimony as gospel if it involved more than a few minutes difference between what he remembered and what Mr. Mross remembered.

[nobody]

Did Nona's psychologist ever testify - I bet that he/she heard things from Nona that most never had access to - possibly a small recording of her true thoughts of her life and those around her. If relevant, would it still be confidential information, in this situation?

[lorettalockhorn]

The information that I remember is that Nona was seeing a psychiatrist, rather than a psychologist. At any rate, I never saw the names of any Shrink Types on any of the witness lists, nor did any testify. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) I don't imagine that there would have been any testimony relevant to the case by any therapist(s) unless Nona had ever reported receiving threats or reported having been abused. I'm sure that whatever thoughts Nona shared with any doctors will go with them to their grave(s). Suppose that there could be testimony in another case.

[christina]

Kinda OT: I believe that Frost testified that the cell phone wasn't tested for prints because he assumed that it would have been contaminated by the prints of the officer who moved it from the floor. This makes me think two things. 1)Why were officers within the parameters of the crime not wearing gloves?, and 2) Since no officer came forward to admit touching the phone, why wasn't it tested to a) rule out the officer's prints and possibly ID the killer? and b) determine who the lying SOB was who wouldn't man up to having made such a serious mistake so that he could be reprimanded? Officers' prints should be on file.

Sorry, sorry, sorry business.

Agreed. Frost testfied he saw the phone on the floor when he first came in. When he came down from looking at the upstairs rooms, the phone was sitting on a table. Above I stated similar thoughts- why weren't these trained professionals handling the crime scene properly? And since they had a log, they could have ruled out the prints/dna of anyone on the log.

[christina]

The information that I remember is that Nona was seeing a psychiatrist, rather than a psychologist. At any rate, I never saw the names of any Shrink Types on any of the witness lists, nor did any testify. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) I don't imagine that there would have been any testimony relevant to the case by any therapist(s) unless Nona had ever reported receiving threats or reported having been abused. I'm sure that whatever thoughts Nona shared with any doctors will go with them to their grave(s). Suppose that there could be testimony in another case.

I remember reading somewhere(Courier article maybe) that Nona had seen a psychologist in the past, was she still seeing one at the time of her murder?

And about a civil case(as mentioned by the Dipert's after the trial). With their comments about the jury/system, will they ever have faith a jury could see "the truth"?

[nobody]

I am starting to see names on the witness list, I am looking into their relation to the case and wondering why they never spoke. One I see is an UOA student, who was also a pall bearer - Brian Featherstone. I am in no means shining the light directly on this person. I am just speculating that when you are asked to be a pall bearer, it means the family respects you - right? There are some other very recognizable and concerning names in the pall bearer list. He attended UOA, so I assume he was mostly friends with Kevin - what is his connection......there are so many loose ends that we will never know.

There is also a Cole Hudson - who seems to be a very successful music major at ATU. He is on scholarship and also graduated from Dover the same year as Nona.

There is also a Bobby Chandler - at the time was a Sr Psychology major at ATU, also living at her apartment complex. He was the last person, known, to see her - but he didn't sit on the witness stand? -correct me if I am wrong.

[ifIwereU]

I am starting to see names on the witness list, I am looking into their relation to the case and wondering why they never spoke. One I see is an UOA student, who was also a pall bearer - Brian Featherstone. I am in no means shining the light directly on this person. I am just speculating that when you are asked to be a pall bearer, it means the family respects you - right? There are some other very recognizable and concerning names in the pall bearer list. He attended UOA, so I assume he was mostly friends with Kevin - what is his connection......there are so many loose ends that we will never know.

There is also a Cole Hudson - who seems to be a very successful music major at ATU. He is on scholarship and also graduated from Dover the same year as Nona.

There is also a Bobby Chandler - at the time was a Sr Psychology major at ATU, also living at her apartment complex. He was the last person, known, to see her - but he didn't sit on the witness stand? -correct me if I am wrong.


Brian Featherston was KJ's roommate in Fayetteville.....what he was to testify to who knows.
I am surprised that Chandler didn't tesitify....I thought he had, but maybe I'm mistaken.

I am sure that the Prosecution has scratched their heads, looked back and wished they had handled things differently, whether it would have mattered or not who knows. we could speculate all night and the rest of next week and never know what they were thinking. I honestly think that they thought that no matter what the jury was going to believe the print was left on the murder weapon at the time the murder occurred and no other time. Regardless of the bad choice of words by former chief bacon (was that tacky?)

I still say if it had been a print on a gun they would have convicted....JMO

[ifIwereU]

Agreed. Frost testfied he saw the phone on the floor when he first came in. When he came down from looking at the upstairs rooms, the phone was sitting on a table. Above I stated similar thoughts- why weren't these trained professionals handling the crime scene properly? And since they had a log, they could have ruled out the prints/dna of anyone on the log.

was there a big stink made by the defense about the lamp shade placement as well. In one picture it was on top of her legs and in another it somewhere else? Am I right on that?

[hawgustusgloop]

I am surprised that Chandler didn't tesitify....I thought he had, but maybe I'm mistaken.



You are not mistaken. He testified. Here is the Courier summary of his testimony:

"Bobby Chandler, also an ATU student, was Dirksmeyer’s neighbor at the time of her death. The senior psychology major testified he saw Dirksmeyer arrive at her apartment at about 9 a.m. on the day she was killed.
He said he knew the approximate time because he was on his way to a 9:30 final exam when he saw her."

[hawgustusgloop]

If it had been up to KJ and their relationship was truly exclusive - I think he would have stayed the night again. It was very late and he obviously did not have anything of importance - except for the bathroom guys in the later morning. I think it was her decision for him leave - and her message was very possibly apologetic to that. "Cuddlemuffin" seems just too much, even from my dating days. Maybe that is just me.

This is a very interesting post. I wonder whether K.Jo was even expected to be there in the morning to meet the bathtub guys? It appears from their testimony that they picked up a key that morning from Grandma Jones:

From the Courier's witness testimony summaries:


Al Fraizer, co-owner of Arkansas Restoration in Russellville, said Hiram Jones, Jones’ father, asked him to take a look at the bathroom to estimate how much work would be needed to repair it. He also told the jury he is “good friends” with the Jones family.
He said he and Bobby Mross, one of his employees, picked up a key from Norma Tate Jones at the Jones’ gas station on the morning of Dec. 15 and went to the Jones house.
He testified he and Mross knocked on the door and “made noise” before attempting to enter the house. He said Kevin Jones, who looked like he had been asleep, opened the door for the men and returned to his room. Frazier estimated the time was about 9:50 a.m.
Deputy Prosecutor Jeff Phillips entered into evidence copies of photos taken at the Jones home by Frazier. Frazier said he takes photos to assist him when he prepares estimates, because he may visit “three or four jobs a day.”
The photos were time-stamped, and the last photo appeared to have been taken at 10:06 a.m.
Frazier said the water damage was more extensive than originally thought and he did a “walk-through” after he took the photos in order to “commit to memory” items in the affected rooms that would need to be moved.
He said after the walk-through, he and Mross went outside and he attempted to contact his partner for another 5-10 minutes.
“The latest time I would have been there was probably some time after 10:20,” Frazier said.
Phillips questioned him about a Feb. 8, 2006, statement he made to police in which he said he and Mross left “within five minutes” of taking the pictures. Frazier denied telling police this information and said what he probably meant was he spent 5-10 minutes going over the house in the walk-through.
He admitted he did not wear a watch and that he wasn’t keeping “minute” track of time on the job, which he usually does on a “quarter-hour basis.”
Mross took the stand next and contradicted Frazier’s version of events, telling jurors the men left soon after the photos were taken. He stated he did not know Jones or his family.


Why would they need to pick up a key if K.Jo was expected to be home? Maybe he WAS supposed to have stayed with Nona that night, but something happened to change their plans.

[ifIwereU]

This is a very interesting post. I wonder whether K.Jo was even expected to be there in the morning to meet the bathtub guys? It appears from their testimony that they picked up a key that morning from Grandma Jones:

From the Courier's witness testimony summaries:


Al Fraizer, co-owner of Arkansas Restoration in Russellville, said Hiram Jones, Jones’ father, asked him to take a look at the bathroom to estimate how much work would be needed to repair it. He also told the jury he is “good friends” with the Jones family.
He said he and Bobby Mross, one of his employees, picked up a key from Norma Tate Jones at the Jones’ gas station on the morning of Dec. 15 and went to the Jones house.
He testified he and Mross knocked on the door and “made noise” before attempting to enter the house. He said Kevin Jones, who looked like he had been asleep, opened the door for the men and returned to his room. Frazier estimated the time was about 9:50 a.m.
Deputy Prosecutor Jeff Phillips entered into evidence copies of photos taken at the Jones home by Frazier. Frazier said he takes photos to assist him when he prepares estimates, because he may visit “three or four jobs a day.”
The photos were time-stamped, and the last photo appeared to have been taken at 10:06 a.m.
Frazier said the water damage was more extensive than originally thought and he did a “walk-through” after he took the photos in order to “commit to memory” items in the affected rooms that would need to be moved.
He said after the walk-through, he and Mross went outside and he attempted to contact his partner for another 5-10 minutes.
“The latest time I would have been there was probably some time after 10:20,” Frazier said.
Phillips questioned him about a Feb. 8, 2006, statement he made to police in which he said he and Mross left “within five minutes” of taking the pictures. Frazier denied telling police this information and said what he probably meant was he spent 5-10 minutes going over the house in the walk-through.
He admitted he did not wear a watch and that he wasn’t keeping “minute” track of time on the job, which he usually does on a “quarter-hour basis.”
Mross took the stand next and contradicted Frazier’s version of events, telling jurors the men left soon after the photos were taken. He stated he did not know Jones or his family.


Why would they need to pick up a key if K.Jo was expected to be home? Maybe he WAS supposed to have stayed with Nona that night, but something happened to change their plans.
You know this is a very interesting point.....why would he not stay the night?
his excuse could have been that he had to clean his room.....which is what his alibi ended up being....I think the fact that he left in the early hours of the night is very compelling......

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm a little confused about when KJ actually arrived back in the area at the end of his semester. Maybe JJ didn't know that Kevin would be around in order to let the Bathtub Guys in but knew that grandmother would be available to pass the key off to them. I think it's possible that Kevin thought that he would be spending the night at Nona's, but she kicked him out. I still wonder if Nona had taken back her key from him that night; of course, even if she had, he could have retrieved it during the time of the murder. Supposedly the reason that he didn't have it on the way to Dardanelle was because he was in Mr. Jones' truck. Did he ever produce and return the key?