Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[christina]

I cannot answer for ox, but I've had problems accepting some courtroom reports when they can't be verified by other firsthand observers.

And I don't see asking about the possible logic that the jury or anyone else had for believing the unclotted, untainted palm print was possible, nor the fact that Lordison (for example) was absolutely to be believed as more of an expert than Kokes, to be an attack.


I do appreciate why you would feel this way. One of the reasons I attended the trial was because I did not want to leave it up to others to hear what took place.

I sat through both testimonies and can tell you, I never heard what Ox is saying about this. Are you forming that opinion from something else, another report maybe?

Depending on what your definiton of expert is- Lordison had much more experience in autopsies than Kokes did/has. Kokes has only been chief ME since 1993.

[christina]

As for the Kokes vs. Lordison argument.....Did Dr. Kokes ever specifically address or rebut Dr. Lordison's testimony on the possible lifting of serum and plasma from hair or carpet?

No, I was surprised as the prosecution is allowed rebuttal witnesses at the end.

[christina]

And you have stated to be a friend of the Whiteside family, which makes everything you report suspect as well, especially after the ridiculous behavior in the courtroom from that side of things. Funny how that works.

Sorry you see me that way. This board has more knowledge of who I am and my biases(from my own admissions) than they have knowledge of yours.
I went back and read all reports I could find and have yet to read/hear what Patty said. Please share it as you seem to be the only one who knows.

[TJEddie]

The jury ignored opinions anyway, so they must know better than us.

And I haven't dropped anything like a "hot potato." Keep it up, though.

Oh, okay. That makes so much more sense. He made the print after only touching her hair after so long, which would have been dry by that point but it was still somehow wet enough to leave a print.

Or... he caused fresh blood to come out when he flipped her over, still only touching her hair, and the only thing that managed to transfer to his hands was blood showing no signs of coagulation.

Or... forest elves and fairies helped him out. It seems about as plausible. There are trees behind the apartment, after all.

Do tell me, TJ, where I am misinterpreting you. I'd really like to know how you explain this. Your post on page 153 didn't.

Tell you what, oxford.....I'll further explain any questions you have about my blood transfer theory right after you direct me to that alleged post of yours detailing exactly why Dr. Lordison's testimony was "laughable." Deal?

[oxfordwebster]

I went back and read all reports I could find and have yet to read/hear what Patty said. Please share it as you seem to be the only one who knows.Go ask her, since you're in the best position.

[oxfordwebster]

Tell you what, oxford.....I'll further explain any questions you have about my blood transfer theory right after you direct me to that alleged post of yours detailing exactly why Dr. Lordison's testimony was "laughable." Deal?I've wrote over and over why it's laughable--in fact, I did just then. Stop trying to back away from a discussion if you can't handle it.

You tell me exactly how Lordison's testimony explains away Kevin's print. I've written enough on how both prosecution and defense expert testimony shows that the print was left at the time of the murder.

[oxfordwebster]

Oh, and Christina: Could you give me a source for where Lordison explained away the lack of blood coagulation in Kevin's print? It's hard for me to take your notes at face value when you describe the witness like he farts rainbows. Thanks.

[TJEddie]

I've wrote over and over why it's laughable--in fact, I did just then. Stop trying to back away from a discussion if you can't handle it.

You tell me exactly how Lordison's testimony explains away Kevin's print. I've written enough on how both prosecution and defense expert testimony shows that the print was left at the time of the murder.

I think I'll just let our recent exchange of posts stand as is, oxford. Thanks for playing, though.

[christina]

As I have said before, it is time to respectfully disagree on this matter. Let's move on....

[oxfordwebster]

I think I'll just let our recent exchange of posts stand as is, oxford. Thanks for playing, though.Is there a reason why you cannot (or will not) demonstrate, using Lordison's testimony, the lack of coagulation in the bloody palm print? Is there a reason why you can't source me quotations or absolutely anything else? Why are you avoiding it?

[christina]

As a self proclaimed fence rider(it was you that said that I think?) what evidence would have swayed you for a guilty verdict?

[oxfordwebster]

As I have said before, it is time to respectfully disagree on this matter. Let's move on....Sure, let's move on to something else.

To everyone: What hard evidence did the defense point to as pointing to another murderer?

Before we start, you can't say the thumbnail in the carpet because the defense testimony ruled it out. Oh, and the DNA on the condom wrapper doesn't exactly point to another murder by any means, so...

I'm curious.

[Manning]

My understanding of the suit, second hand only(maybe I can look it up in the courthouse?), is that the Courier printed the story without complete information, with no charges filed (the complaint was still under investigation, was proven false, and Ryan Whiteside was not even part of the complaint) and thus caused defamation(?) to the Whiteside's.

The Courier obtained police documents from the Russellville Police Department’s AEGIS computer system detailing the victim’s complaint.
According to Russellville Police Officer Lee Goemmer’s Dec. 31 report, the alleged victim told police she attended a party at Whiteside’s North Greenwich residence Dec. 28

christina - are you saying that as tax paying citizens of this town we do not have the right to know anything about the police reports that get filed at the police department?

I thought anyone could go to the police report anytime they wanted to, to read police reports and that the public had a right to know about any police reports that gets filed, jmo. I also thought that it was part of a reporters job to review all reports every morning and determine what was news worthy and what they thought joe public would be interested in hearing on the radio news or read in the newspaper, jmo.

[lorettalockhorn]

Sorry you see me that way. This board has more knowledge of who I am and my biases(from my own admissions) than they have knowledge of yours.
I went back and read all reports I could find and have yet to read/hear what Patty said. Please share it as you seem to be the only one who knows.

Just curious since you were in the courtroom, did you not hear PW's outburst? It was my understanding from what was told me, that even though the Joneses did not respond to DD's comment that Kevin had "gotten away with it" (or however it was phrased), that Patti yelled at Duane that maybe he had gotten away with it and that she had to be removed from the courtroom.

You didn't witness any of that exchange?

[oxfordwebster]

Just curious since you were in the courtroom, did you not hear PW's outburst? It was my understanding from what was told me, that even though the Joneses did not respond to DD's comment that Kevin had "gotten away with it" (or however it was phrased), that Patti yelled at Duane that maybe he had gotten away with it and that she had to be removed from the courtroom.To be fair, my understanding is that both of them were motioned to leave the court room. I think an article might have mentioned Dipert being asked to leave, but I'll have to look into that. I can't remember.

[christina]

The Courier obtained police documents from the Russellville Police Department’s AEGIS computer system detailing the victim’s complaint.
According to Russellville Police Officer Lee Goemmer’s Dec. 31 report, the alleged victim told police she attended a party at Whiteside’s North Greenwich residence Dec. 28

christina - are you saying that as tax paying citizens of this town we do not have the right to know anything about the police reports that get filed at the police department?
I thought anyone could go to the police report anytime they wanted to, to read police reports and that the public had a right to know about any police reports that gets filed, jmo. I also thought that it was part of a reporters job to review all reports every morning and determine what was news worthy and what they thought joe public would be interested in hearing on the radio news or read in the newspaper, jmo.



Absolutely not what I am saying. When one of my children had a car wreck I found out how relatively easy it is to obtain a report from the RPD. And yes, I have heard reporters read reports regularly to get stories.
My post was pertaining to the Whiteside story specifically.

[oxfordwebster]

My post was pertaining to the Whiteside story specifically.Where exactly has everything been "proven false," as you stated in an earlier post? I'd love to see some kind of source on that. I think it needs to be looked into.

[christina]

Just curious since you were in the courtroom, did you not hear PW's outburst? It was my understanding from what was told me, that even though the Joneses did not respond to DD's comment that Kevin had "gotten away with it" (or however it was phrased), that Patti yelled at Duane that maybe he had gotten away with it and that she had to be removed from the courtroom.

You didn't witness any of that exchange?

I posted awhile back exactly what I heard and saw. Repeat- Duane Dipert stood up and yelled/raised his voice, Patty Whiteside did not. If I remember-I believe you are one that said you watched the Dipert exchange on TV and could not hear Patty either. You could hear Dipert's daughter also because she yelled/raised her voice. I also watched the news report carefully and could not hear Patty.
I also posted that I was disappointed as I could tell whatever it was she said was impolite because her face was stern and her jaw tight.

I have asked many and never been able to find out. I have read every report and have not seen anything. What is your source here?

[lorettalockhorn]

I do appreciate why you would feel this way. One of the reasons I attended the trial was because I did not want to leave it up to others to hear what took place.

I sat through both testimonies and can tell you, I never heard what Ox is saying about this. Are you forming that opinion from something else, another report maybe?

Depending on what your definiton of expert is- Lordison had much more experience in autopsies than Kokes did/has. Kokes has only been chief ME since 1993.

Well, besides the music room sex thing, I was a little surprised that you couldn't remember Waid's name, since you had seen him testify and he would have been sworn in and introduced to the court (with regard to York having an attorney).

As for the testimony about the palm print being made at the time of discovery, it just goes against my common since to think that the print wouldn't have been tainted by clots, brain matter, dirt, hair, cat hair, etc.

Am I to understand that Lordison is a more reliable expert simply due to quantity rather than the quality of educational background, lab work, areas of specialty, etc? Is Kokes lucky to even have a job? Wonder if he'll have as many autopsies under his belt by the time he is as old as Lordison, (if there is a great difference in age. Wonder what the threshhold number is, that makes you an autopsy expert.)

Kremers screwed up big time by not ascertaining a body temperature when he arrived at the murder scene. I cannot say that often enough. Considering that violent crime seems to be on the rise in Pope County, we need to abolish the election of our coroner and hire a medical examiner. The coroner system is antiquated and outside of the need for the pronunciation of unattended death by those suffering natural causes is a waste of money. *climbs off soapbox for the umpteenth time*

[oxfordwebster]

I have asked many and never been able to find out. I have read every report and have not seen anything. What is your source here?Why would you ask everyone else when you could just ask her? I thought you were a friend of the family? I'm curious as to why you would avoid such a direct source.

[lorettalockhorn]

I posted awhile back exactly what I heard and saw. Repeat- Duane Dipert stood up and yelled/raised his voice, Patty Whiteside did not. If I remember-I believe you are one that said you watched the Dipert exchange on TV and could not hear Patty either. You could hear Dipert's daughter also because she yelled/raised her voice. I also watched the news report carefully and could not hear Patty.
I also posted that I was disappointed as I could tell whatever it was she said was impolite because her face was stern and her jaw tight.

I have asked many and never been able to find out. I have read every report and have not seen anything. What is your source here?


Yes, I saw a news tape, but DD didn't yell. I didn't see or hear Patti say anything; perhaps the tape had been edited. I've heard her outburst described exactly as that by several people. Not surprised that The Courier hasn't mentioned PW, considering. But I am surprised that some of the other newspapers didn't comment on it. (I've even heard that she has bragged about yelling at Dipert. sheesh)

[oxfordwebster]

Christina: I've always meant to ask you this, out of genuine curiosity--you made some posts during the time the trial was actually going on. How did you accomplish that? I always wondered how Ozark was setup to allow something like that, and it always made me wonder when I read those posts.

[christina]

To be fair, my understanding is that both of them were motioned to leave the court room. I think an article might have mentioned Dipert being asked to leave, but I'll have to look into that. I can't remember.

I did not hear either being asked to leave the courtroom. Once the sheriff and bailiff were positioned by Dipert/Whiteside the Franklin County sheriff opened the door at the back of the room and suggested to the Pope county sheriff he usher the Dirksmeyer family through there. He did. There was no way someone could have gotten out the side hallway door as the press was blocking it trying to get pictures. That door was closest to the defense table.

[christina]

Christina: I've always meant to ask you this, out of genuine curiosity--you made some posts during the time the trial was actually going on. How did you accomplish that? I always wondered how Ozark was setup to allow something like that, and it always made me wonder when I read those posts.

You tell me how you know so much information with out acutally having been in the courtroom. Cheeky that is.

There was a room with internet access.

[oxfordwebster]

You tell me how you know so much information with out acutally having been in the courtroom. Cheeky that is.And you've been in the courtroom yet somehow miss out on important details and can't remember that the cop you talked to was actually on the stand, but hey.

There was a room with internet access.Thanks for answering the question, though.

[christina]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;8926834]Yes, I saw a news tape, but DD didn't yell.

He did speak loudly enough for the video to pick him up. And you could hear the daughter's comment on video as well. The tape was not editted to my knowledge as I saw it happen just that way in person. The only comment I could not make out on the video and in person was Patty's.


I didn't see or hear Patti say anything; perhaps the tape had been edited. I've heard her outburst described exactly as that by several people. Not surprised that The Courier hasn't mentioned PW, considering. But I am surprised that some of the other newspapers didn't comment on it. (I've even heard that she has bragged about yelling at Dipert. sheesh)

Can I assume Loretta-you just forgot to add IMO or RUMOR to these statements? Since the facts we have are the video and articles.

[christina]

And you've been in the courtroom yet somehow miss out on important details and can't remember that the cop you talked to was actually on the stand, but hey.

Thanks for answering the question, though.

I do not think I missed out on important details, I tried my level best to write as much down as possible.
As for memory of people, you got me, I forgot his name.
You're welcome.

[oxfordwebster]

I do not think I missed out on important details, I tried my level best to write as much down as possible.
As for memory of people, you got me, I forgot his name.Oh, I didn't say you forgot his name. We don't need to rehash this again, though. The exchange is still here unless the posts were deleted.

You're welcome.:beer:

[christina]

I went back and watched the clip again. Below is the link. You can see Patty looking at Dipert but can not hear what she says. But you do hear both Dipert and his daughter's comments. It is obvious as I re watch this there was some form of editting as they add the picture of Nona and her mom in the middle.

http://arkansasmatters.com/media_player.php?media_id=11582

[christina]

Oh, I didn't say you forgot his name. We don't need to rehash this again, though. The exchange is still here unless the posts were deleted.

:beer:

Cheers! Already poured my first glass of chardonnay as it really was 5 o'clock!

[oxfordwebster]

I went back and watched the clip again. Below is the link. You can see Patty looking at Dipert but can not hear what she says. But you do hear both Dipert and his daughter's comments. It is obvious as I re watch this there was some form of editting as they add the picture of Nona and her mom in the middle.

http://arkansasmatters.com/media_player.php?media_id=11582Thanks for that link, Christina!

When Whiteside's response would have happened, the audio was lowered and the reporters started talking again. They pick it up again to play another Dipert family member talking. Curious.

You can definitely hear that more was said, though. And I don't see how you could ever say that Dipert was "yelling." The timbre of his voice didn't have that at all, even if you want to claim that they turned him down.

[lorettalockhorn]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;8926834]Yes, I saw a news tape, but DD didn't yell.

He did speak loudly enough for the video to pick him up. And you could hear the daughter's comment on video as well. The tape was not editted to my knowledge as I saw it happen just that way in person. The only comment I could not make out on the video and in person was Patty's.


I didn't see or hear Patti say anything; perhaps the tape had been edited. I've heard her outburst described exactly as that by several people. Not surprised that The Courier hasn't mentioned PW, considering. But I am surprised that some of the other newspapers didn't comment on it. (I've even heard that she has bragged about yelling at Dipert. sheesh)

Can I assume you just forgot to add IMO or RUMOR to these statements? Since the facts we have are the video and articles.

Everything that I post is my opinion unless I post a link or a quote; that is generally accepted boardwide. I said that I didn't see or hear PW, so of course I was speaking from my own sensory viewpoint. The several people who I mention are not members of the media, nor have they been quoted, or else you would probably be able to find their remarks online. They are unnamed sources of rumor portraying PW as a heavily invested harridan who spoke her mind in a way unflattering to herself. Like I say, I've heard that she called around bragging about her outburst; can't believe that she didn't call you.

The video that I saw did not claim that it was unedited, so I have no way of knowing if it was. Could be that they don't want to broadcast anything involving the Whitesides as they may be veiwed as litigious.

[christina]

Thanks for that link, Christina!

When Whiteside's response would have happened, the audio was lowered and the reporters started talking again. They pick it up again to play another Dipert family member talking. Curious.

You can definitely hear that more was said, though. And I don't see how you could ever say that Dipert was "yelling." The timbre of his voice didn't have that at all, even if you want to claim that they turned him down.

I added "spoke loudly" trying to tell Loretta the difference and as to why I heard only two of the three comments.
The emotions in the room were so intense, everything felt like so motion and a voice raised above the rest felt very loud.
I remember turning to the person next to me as the jury filed in and they looked white as a sheet. When I asked if they were ok, they said their heart felt like it was going to explode. I agreed, very intense atmosphere.

[christina]

[QUOTE=christina;8926840]

Everything that I post is my opinion unless I post a link or a quote; that is generally accepted boardwide. I said that I didn't see or hear PW, so of course I was speaking from my own sensory viewpoint. The several people who I mention are not members of the media, nor have they been quoted, or else you would probably be able to find their remarks online. They are unnamed sources of rumor portraying PW as a heavily invested harridan who spoke her mind in a way unflattering to herself. Like I say, I've heard that she called around bragging about her outburst; can't believe that she didn't call you.

The video that I saw did not claim that it was unedited, so I have no way of knowing if it was. Could be that they don't want to broadcast anything involving the Whitesides as they may be veiwed as litigious.



I just have to tell you, I feel held to a higher standard by you and others on this rumor/IMO and fact thing. I am trying to live within the rules but sometimes I have a hard time nailing down what they are.

[lorettalockhorn]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;8926859]



I just have to tell you, I feel held to a higher standard by you and others on this rumor/IMO and fact thing. I am trying to live within the rules but sometimes I have a hard time nailing down what they are.

Man! I hate it when those quotes go awry!

Anyway, I have heard rumors around Tech and around town that PW had an angry outburst in court and was hustled from the courtroom. And some of the people who passed those rumors along to me wonder why she is so invested in the case. I can only assume that it may have something to do with the rumors that RW helped KJ stage the scene.

[sololobo]

Ok, I'm dying of curiosity, as I'm sure many readers of this board are. What did Patty Whiteside say to Duane Dipert? Does anyone know?

[lorettalockhorn]

Omigosh, this is so OT. I just had a convo with my former college roomie about the old days when she was living in Tulsie Town. We were discussing Leon Russell and Mary McCrary, and I told her that I was posting on a message board with someone who uses the handle TJEddie. She asked me if it could possibly be Teddy Jack Eddy aka Gary Busey. Now I'm am now just cracking up all over the place.

Cheers, Eddie for giving me a good yuk (even though it was totally unintentional). :beer:

(Just an example of how the mind works in random ways.)

[lorettalockhorn]

Ok, I'm dying of curiosity, as I'm sure many readers of this board are. What did Patty Whiteside say to Duane Dipert? Does anyone know?

The way that I heard it told by unnamed gossip mongers, was that DD said after the verdict, something along the line of "you got away with it, didn't you Kevin." And PWhiteside yelled out, "no, you got away with it Duane." and was taken out of court by deputies or bailiffs or someone.

Dunno what PW may have recounted to her friends, but I've heard that she bragged about it. I guess we should give her credit for owning her behavior.

[TJEddie]

As a self proclaimed fence rider(it was you that said that I think?) what evidence would have swayed you for a guilty verdict?

If this was posted to me, no, I wouldn't characterize myself as a fence rider. (I think nobody might have said that.....)

[lorettalockhorn]

If this was posted to me, no, I wouldn't characterize myself as a fence rider. (I think nobody might have said that.....)

I think nobody posted that with regard to the alleged rape situation and the providing of alcohol to underage drinkers.

[TJEddie]

Omigosh, this is so OT. I just had a convo with my former college roomie about the old days when she was living in Tulsie Town. We were discussing Leon Russell and Mary McCrary, and I told her that I was posting on a message board with someone who uses the handle TJEddie. She asked me if it could possibly be Teddy Jack Eddy aka Gary Busey. Now I'm am now just cracking up all over the place.

Cheers, Eddie for giving me a good yuk (even though it was totally unintentional). :beer:

(Just an example of how the mind works in random ways.)

Ding ding ding......we have a winner! Yes, that is indeed the origin of my screen name.

[lorettalockhorn]

Ding ding ding......we have a winner! Yes, that is indeed the origin of my screen name.

So, you're not actually Gary Busey?

:beer: Oh well. I'm not the starstruck type*.








(*Unless we're talking Tony Bourdain)

[sololobo]

The way that I heard it told by unnamed gossip mongers, was that DD said after the verdict, something along the line of "you got away with it, didn't you Kevin." And PWhiteside yelled out, "no, you got away with it Duane." and was taken out of court by deputies or bailiffs or someone.

Dunno what PW may have recounted to her friends, but I've heard that she bragged about it. I guess we should give her credit for owning her behavior.

So Patty Whiteside thinks Duane did it? What motive could he possibly have? Was Duane even a suspect during the investigation? I know some suspect him because of the cell phone but the investigation was over when that happened.

[partyharty]

I was under the impression that the phone was returned before the investigation was "over". I know it was returned prior to the defense getting to look at it (neglecting them a chance to verify the claims that came from the state).
--------

According to this link
http://www.couriernews.com/archivedstory.php?ID=15073

The cellphone was given to Duane on March 1st and Kevin was charged on March 31st.

[christina]

[QUOTE=christina;8926869]

Man! I hate it when those quotes go awry!

Anyway, I have heard rumors around Tech and around town that PW had an angry outburst in court and was hustled from the courtroom. And some of the people who passed those rumors along to me wonder why she is so invested in the case. I can only assume that it may have something to do with the rumors that RW helped KJ stage the scene.

Funny.

Might have something to do with her son's best friend being on trial for murder. I think she is good friends with the Jones as well.

Only place I have heard that one is here on this board.

[christina]

If this was posted to me, no, I wouldn't characterize myself as a fence rider. (I think nobody might have said that.....)

Sorry- wrong poster...

[christina]

I was under the impression that the phone was returned before the investigation was "over". I know it was returned prior to the defense getting to look at it (neglecting them a chance to verify the claims that came from the state).
--------

According to this link
http://www.couriernews.com/archivedstory.php?ID=15073

The cellphone was given to Duane on March 1st and Kevin was charged on March 31st.

According to the Diperts interview with the press and the ME report having Jones name on it, the investigation was over 7 days after the murder.
The phone, at Dipert's request, was given to him prior to a charge being filed. I don't think it was returned til sometime in May. The article said March 31st was the day Jones was charged.

[christina]

So Patty Whiteside thinks Duane did it? What motive could he possibly have? Was Duane even a suspect during the investigation? I know some suspect him because of the cell phone but the investigation was over when that happened.

She and many others around town believe he is suspicious. The cell phone is just one example. I heard his neighbors have problems with him for leaving anonymous notes on their door and phone messages complaining about them being a nuisance. Caller ID took care of the anonymous part. And he supposedly showed up at the RPD with receipts in hand to prove where he was the day of the murder even though no one asked. But he did not offered up fingerprints. I was told Carol refused to believe Jones did it because she knew him for so long and so well(longer than she had known Dipert) but it was Dipert that "convinced" her. And I heard one of Nona's friends tells people that Nona moved out of the house because she felt weird around him.
Add to all that the location of his house to the apartment.

[hawgustusgloop]

>snip<
Recently I saw Bevel, the prosecution expert, on one of the TV shows about crime. He was postulating about another case. IMO, Bevel is looking for a level of fame making him suspect to me.


Is this serious? If Bevel was seeking any level of fame, you would think he'd find a more ambitious use of his time than being in a courtroom in Ozark, Arkansas, where no cameras were allowed. If he was trying hard to be some kind of superstar expert witness, why would he ruin his professional reputation by giving any less than his true, educated opinion?

Is the fact that he was asked to appear on a television program the only reason you think he's seeking stardom to the point of being "suspect" as an expert withness?

[christina]

Is this serious? If Bevel was seeking any level of fame, you would think he'd find a more ambitious use of his time than being in a courtroom in Ozark, Arkansas, where no cameras were allowed. If he was trying hard to be some kind of superstar expert witness, why would he ruin his professional reputation by giving any less than his true, educated opinion?

Is the fact that he was asked to appear on a television program the only reason you think he's seeking stardom to the point of being "suspect" as an expert withness?

Fame seekers do so in many ways, all of them need money and he was well paid to be in Ozark. He is the only one of the "highly paid expert witnesses" pushing a book he has written and appearing on crime TV shows. He did not hang around a second more than he had to in Ozark. The other expert witnesses did, and because they were experts, the judge allowed them to sit in on the proceedings. I saw two there until the last day. Bevel was uncomfortable ont he stand and wavered when quesitoned by the defense. It was obvious he wanted to distance himself from this trial so as not to ruin his professional reputation.

[hawgustusgloop]

She and many others around town believe he is suspicious. The cell phone is just one example. I heard his neighbors have problems with him for leaving anonymous notes on their door and phone messages complaining about them being a nuisance. Caller ID took care of the anonymous part. And he supposedly showed up at the RPD with receipts in hand to prove where he was the day of the murder even though no one asked. But he did not offered up fingerprints. I was told Carol refused to believe Jones did it because she knew him for so long and so well(longer than she had known Dipert) but it was Dipert that "convinced" her. And I heard one of Nona's friends tells people that Nona moved out of the house because she felt weird around him.
Add to all that the location of his house to the apartment.

How could you know if Duane Dipert was asked to provide documentation for his whereabouts or not?

[christina]

How could you know if Duane Dipert was asked to provide documentation for his whereabouts or not?

I have my source, but for your sake-I used the word supposedly.

[hawgustusgloop]

Fame seekers do so in many ways, all of them need money and he was well paid to be in Ozark. He is the only one of the "highly paid expert witnesses" pushing a book he has written and appearing on crime TV shows. He did not hang around a second more than he had to in Ozark. The other expert witnesses did, and because they were experts, the judge allowed them to sit in on the proceedings. I saw two there until the last day. Bevel was uncomfortable ont he stand and wavered when quesitoned by the defense. It was obvious he wanted to distance himself from this trial so as not to ruin his professional reputation.

How do you know how much he was paid, and whether or not he considered it being "well paid" or not?

I know you say you sat through the trial, but I don't see how, as a spectator, you could seemingly read his thoughts to the point that you can tell he "obviously" wanted to distance himself from the trial so as not to ruin his professional reputation.

[hawgustusgloop]

The way that I heard it told by unnamed gossip mongers, was that DD said after the verdict, something along the line of "you got away with it, didn't you Kevin." And PWhiteside yelled out, "no, you got away with it Duane." and was taken out of court by deputies or bailiffs or someone.

Dunno what PW may have recounted to her friends, but I've heard that she bragged about it. I guess we should give her credit for owning her behavior.

I heard virtually the exact same account of this rumor.

[lorettalockhorn]

So Patty Whiteside thinks Duane did it? What motive could he possibly have? Was Duane even a suspect during the investigation? I know some suspect him because of the cell phone but the investigation was over when that happened.

I can't imagine what motive DD would have for this crime. There has been proposed in this thread that there were six or so suspects, but nothing was said about the gender or those; do we have any reason to believe that only a male could have been responsible for Nona's death?

Oh, back to your original question; I have to wonder why is PW so invested in this case, other than the fact that her son was witness to the corpse upon discovery.

[lorettalockhorn]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;8926909]

Funny.

Might have something to do with her son's best friend being on trial for murder. I think she is good friends with the Jones as well.

Only place I have heard that one is here on this board.

Yes, I understand that PW would be worried about her son's testimony and having been scarred (maybe even for life) at having been a part of finding Nona's body. But what I don't get; is why she would be so outspoken about DD. Why would she think that Duane had anything to do with Nona's murder? Had he not been a good stepfather to her? And if he wasn't; how would she know?

Seriously, she seems to have interjected herself into the case. What with her [alleged] courtroom outburst and all.

[hawgustusgloop]

Man! I hate it when those quotes go awry!

Anyway, I have heard rumors around Tech and around town that PW had an angry outburst in court and was hustled from the courtroom. And some of the people who passed those rumors along to me wonder why she is so invested in the case. I can only assume that it may have something to do with the rumors that RW helped KJ stage the scene.

I have heard that those rumors about RW have been pretty rampant in that neck of the woods. Hypothetically speaking, it could make some sense, especially after RW testified that he was there in court to help K.Jo out, and had to be declared a hostile witness. Was RW's alibi presented in court? If he was delivering pizzas, it might have been easy to go by Nona's to help stage the scene, especially if K.Jo let him use his key. No one would necessarily take note of a pizza delivery vehicle parked briefly in the neighborhood.

[lorettalockhorn]

I was under the impression that the phone was returned before the investigation was "over". I know it was returned prior to the defense getting to look at it (neglecting them a chance to verify the claims that came from the state).
--------

According to this link
http://www.couriernews.com/archivedstory.php?ID=15073

The cellphone was given to Duane on March 1st and Kevin was charged on March 31st.


Returning the phone to Dipert, or turning it over to anyone before the trial was over was just stupid, stupid, stupid, IMO. I cannot imagine that the investigation was anywhere near over until the very minute that charges were filed against KJ.

[lorettalockhorn]

According to the Diperts interview with the press and the ME report having Jones name on it, the investigation was over 7 days after the murder.
The phone, at Dipert's request, was given to him prior to a charge being filed. I don't think it was returned til sometime in May. The article said March 31st was the day Jones was charged.

You honestly don't think that the State didn't wait for the ME's final report before filing charges? You honestly don't think that KJ's name on the request for autopsy had anything to do with the fact that KJ would have (statistically, if nothing else) been considered a suspect and could have been entered in case of future fingerprint and DNA samples? (I don't know; just asking.)

[optimumprimal78]

See all of these conversations could have been made clear if CH or CD would have had to testify. CD could have been there to clear the air about her husband. Didn't someone post way back when that CH was the one who sat down with Nona to tell CD about being abused? If so then she was probably close and could have known if something was wrong with the household situation. I guess I need to go back and look at some old posts.......

[hawgustusgloop]

Yes, I understand that PW would be worried about her son's testimony and having been scarred (maybe even for life) at having been a part of finding Nona's body. But what I don't get; is why she would be so outspoken about DD. Why would she think that Duane had anything to do with Nona's murder? Had he not been a good stepfather to her? And if he wasn't; how would she know?

Seriously, she seems to have interjected herself into the case. What with her [alleged] courtroom outburst and all.

I personally find it bizarre that PW and some posters on this board appear to have some kind of personal grudges against Duane Dipert. Didn't someone register during the trial just to make a post (that didn't even really make sense with the facts of the case) suggesting DD killed Nona? Also, there have been posts saying he was hotheaded and making him sound so angry and irrational. However, in interviews, he seemed relatively calm and very rational. I thought he was even quoted as saying he felt bad for the Jones family and all they were going through when K.Jo was first arrested.

I see him as a family member of a murder victim. I wonder why some seem to have so much animosity toward him?

[lorettalockhorn]

She and many others around town believe he is suspicious. The cell phone is just one example. I heard his neighbors have problems with him for leaving anonymous notes on their door and phone messages complaining about them being a nuisance. Caller ID took care of the anonymous part. And he supposedly showed up at the RPD with receipts in hand to prove where he was the day of the murder even though no one asked. But he did not offered up fingerprints. I was told Carol refused to believe Jones did it because she knew him for so long and so well(longer than she had known Dipert) but it was Dipert that "convinced" her. And I heard one of Nona's friends tells people that Nona moved out of the house because she felt weird around him.
Add to all that the location of his house to the apartment.

So the neighbors continue to have problems with DD? Are they sure that the number showing on the caller ID corresponds to the notes on their doors? Could it be that these folks create a nuisance for more than one neighbor? RPD supposedly had six suspects; are you absolutely sure that DD volunteered receipts to verify his whereabouts without being asked? Woudln't he want to cooperate with the investigation to the point that he would want to rule himself out if he was indeed a suspect? If he presented LE with receipts to prove his whereabouts the day of the murder, why do you consider him to still be a suspect?

So how long have Carol and Duane known each other? I thought that it was many years. Do tell.

[lorettalockhorn]

Wednesday-first witness-The defense ME, MD, board certified in forensic pathology, retired chief medical examiner for Alabama, personally performed between 3-4,000 autopsies, believes an autopsy is just one tool in the cause of death investigation, 95% of his tesitifying has been for prosecutors, described blood properties(breakdown in white, red cells, etc.) and how they act differently on a porous versus a non porus surface when drying, stated that the rug under victim's head acted as a sponge, said clotting would have little to do with when the blood was placed on the bulb, was surprised the autopsy took place 4 days after death, said it was highly unusual because demposition had started(showing pictures to the jury)and made TOD more difficult to determine, believed in a case like this is would be very important to do the autopsy asap, 3 things to determine TOD- lividity, body temp and rigor, (body temp was not taken in this case), described rigo-fibers around muscles lock, says if there was a struggle or the victim had soem physical activity prior-the fibors are depleted so it is harder/less reliable to set TOD using this....
I have some notes on his description of how the attack took place, the specific injuries on the vicitm, histology slides, etc...
He was a very easy witness to listen to as he spoke in understandable terms and kind of taught as he went along. And most important he spoke loud enough for us to easily hear! He was an older gentleman, neat in appearance, relaxed, was not emotional. The prosecution had a very hard time cross examining him, like they were over their heads with his knowledge level. He was not phased by anything they asked and was not contentious when asked why he differed with their ME.
Recently I saw Bevel, the prosecution expert, on one of the TV shows about crime. He was postulating about another case. IMO, Bevel is looking for a level of fame making him suspect to me.

Do you happen to remember which program? Any chance that it will be rerun at some point? I'd like to see it. TYIA

[partyharty]

Returning the phone to Dipert, or turning it over to anyone before the trial was over was just stupid, stupid, stupid, IMO. I cannot imagine that the investigation was anywhere near over until the very minute that charges were filed against KJ.

I agree 100% on both accounts.

[lorettalockhorn]

Fame seekers do so in many ways, all of them need money and he was well paid to be in Ozark. He is the only one of the "highly paid expert witnesses" pushing a book he has written and appearing on crime TV shows. He did not hang around a second more than he had to in Ozark. The other expert witnesses did, and because they were experts, the judge allowed them to sit in on the proceedings. I saw two there until the last day. Bevel was uncomfortable ont he stand and wavered when quesitoned by the defense. It was obvious he wanted to distance himself from this trial so as not to ruin his professional reputation.

Are you saying that the judge may have prejudiced the jury with regard to Bevel's appearnance?

Oh my.

Are you saying that Bevel is so desperate for money that he would agree to testify, yet felt the need to flee the inevitable free media coverage that might have come his way if he hadn't run from the proceedings?

Oh. My.

[lorettalockhorn]

How do you know how much he was paid, and whether or not he considered it being "well paid" or not?

I know you say you sat through the trial, but I don't see how, as a spectator, you could seemingly read his thoughts to the point that you can tell he "obviously" wanted to distance himself from the trial so as not to ruin his professional reputation.

I'm confuzzled too. What is "well paid" to one, might not even come close to another. Was Bevel pushing people aside to beat a hot trail out of Ozark?

[lorettalockhorn]

I personally find it bizarre that PW and some posters on this board appear to have some kind of personal grudges against Duane Dipert. Didn't someone register during the trial just to make a post (that didn't even really make sense with the facts of the case) suggesting DD killed Nona? Also, there have been posts saying he was hotheaded and making him sound so angry and irrational. However, in interviews, he seemed relatively calm and very rational. I thought he was even quoted as saying he felt bad for the Jones family and all they were going through when K.Jo was first arrested.

I see him as a family member of a murder victim. I wonder why some seem to have so much animosity toward him?

Not sure, but it seems like Miss Q had a definite axe to grind with regard to DD. Not sure if she had worked with him before or not; hard to tell. Did she ever actually say what she does for a living? Something in the medical field I think she said?

[TJEddie]

I think Frost would like for everyone to think his returning the phone was just stupid. "Stupid" is a lot easier to deal with than "tampering with evidence." Just my opinion, of course.

[lorettalockhorn]

I think Frost would like for everyone to think his returning the phone was just stupid. "Stupid" is a lot easier to deal with than "tampering with evidence." Just my opinion, of course.

Why would Frost use (for lack of a better term) DD to tamper with the phone evidence? Not saying that if nothing else, RPD should have googled methods of evidence recovery from cell phones, that's what I did and there is plenty of information out there for proper protocol, whether the battery is intact or not. Are you saying that Frost and DD conspired to destroy evidence?

[hawgustusgloop]

I think Frost would like for everyone to think his returning the phone was just stupid. "Stupid" is a lot easier to deal with than "tampering with evidence." Just my opinion, of course.

Why not tamper with it before the people at the crime lab could get their hands on it instead?

[lorettalockhorn]

Why not tamper with it before the people at the crime lab could get their hands on it instead?

Indeed. A smart observation.

So, about that link that Sololobo (I think it was Sololobo) posted some time ago; Chelsea wrote that Kevin and Nona and she and "Jim" were best friends. Just who is the Jim that she was talking about? Was it York?

Maybe it wasn't "Jim"? Can anyone help me out as to whom the four best friends were?

[jonikay]

Indeed. A smart observation.

So, about that link that Sololobo (I think it was Sololobo) posted some time ago; Chelsea wrote that Kevin and Nona and she and "Jim" were best friends. Just who is the Jim that she was talking about? Was it York?

Maybe it wasn't "Jim"? Can anyone help me out as to whom the four best friends were?

It was FD on page 5, the infamous PCS page. The four friends were Chelsea, Jim, Kevin, and Nona. I don't have a clue as to who Jim was or is . . . highly doubtful it's York. Kevin never mentioned him in Nona's list of friends during the interrogation. Being that Huckabay was at UCA, Nona was at ATU, and Kevin was at UofA, they probably weren't hanging around much around the time of her murder . . . but, who knows--just speculation.

[optimumprimal78]

It was FD on page 5, the infamous PCS page. The four friends were Chelsea, Jim, Kevin, and Nona. I don't have a clue as to who Jim was or is . . . highly doubtful it's York. Kevin never mentioned him in Nona's list of friends during the interrogation. Being that Huckabay was at UCA, Nona was at ATU, and Kevin was at UofA, they probably weren't hanging around much around the time of her murder . . . but, who knows--just speculation.

Well it isn't entirely impossible. KJ had quit school right? Nona was murdered the last week before Christmas break. I don't know when UCA let out but I remember that they used to start at a different time than Tech (at least they did many years ago) so maybe they have a different schedule than each other. More things to go look at.

So many things not enough time:tongue:

[sololobo]

Well it isn't entirely impossible. KJ had quit school right? Nona was murdered the last week before Christmas break. I don't know when UCA let out but I remember that they used to start at a different time than Tech (at least they did many years ago) so maybe they have a different schedule than each other. More things to go look at.

So many things not enough time:tongue:

Kevin didn't quit school until after the murder.

[sololobo]

I personally find it bizarre that PW and some posters on this board appear to have some kind of personal grudges against Duane Dipert. Didn't someone register during the trial just to make a post (that didn't even really make sense with the facts of the case) suggesting DD killed Nona? Also, there have been posts saying he was hotheaded and making him sound so angry and irrational. However, in interviews, he seemed relatively calm and very rational. I thought he was even quoted as saying he felt bad for the Jones family and all they were going through when K.Jo was first arrested.

I see him as a family member of a murder victim. I wonder why some seem to have so much animosity toward him?

I think I remember that post. Was it the one that claimed Duane lived at the top of the hill and the poster had walked up the hill and could see Duane's house? I discounted it when FDinLaw replied that Duane's house was not at the top of the hill and FD should know.

[nobody]

I have heard two conflicting stories of DD - so, I'm not ready to accept either one. The first time, I heard that he claimed to be asleep - to which someone quickly argued the poster did not know what they were talking about. The second time, was that he had time receipts that he readily showed to the RPD. He seems a little bit obnoxious, but nothing suspecting.

<*R>

[nobody]

Many have suggested that the crime scene was staged.
Items to include:
1. an "out of place" condom wrapper - on the counter.
2. jeans and panties pulled inside out and to the right of Nona's body with blood leading to but not on or under them.

Maybe there was more?

I'm just thinking, if I were the suspect and I wanted the cell phone evidence gone, I would have done more to the phone than just take the battery. You might have found her phone at the bottom of the Lock and Dam. I'm suggesting the possibility that the attacker took the battery, just to have the investigators suspect those that called her most. What an excellent tactic that would have been.

I'm just suggesting new theory, because I feel like I am punching at thin air in this case.

[christina]

Do you happen to remember which program? Any chance that it will be rerun at some point? I'd like to see it. TYIA

Sorry, not for sure. Does American Justice sound right? Or it might have been one on the Court TV channel.

[christina]

How do you know how much he was paid, and whether or not he considered it being "well paid" or not?

I know you say you sat through the trial, but I don't see how, as a spectator, you could seemingly read his thoughts to the point that you can tell he "obviously" wanted to distance himself from the trial so as not to ruin his professional reputation.

Agreed that I do not know what well paid is for Bevel. I was using vernacular common to this board when defense experts are discussed. I believe $200/hour was suggested at the hearing prior to the trial. To me, that is well paid.

All this is from my observation. He never put himself out on a limb to answer a question especially when the defense asked him questions regarding their experts conclusions. He even backed away from some of his earlier statements. It made sense when he told he only saw certain reports and pictures, and was only given information about one supect-Jones.

[christina]

Are you saying that the judge may have prejudiced the jury with regard to Bevel's appearnance?

Oh my.

Are you saying that Bevel is so desperate for money that he would agree to testify, yet felt the need to flee the inevitable free media coverage that might have come his way if he hadn't run from the proceedings?

Oh. My.

Ignoring your sarcasm.....This was something I asked one of the lawyers about as I did not understand why some witnesses were allowed to stay in the courtroom. They told me that witnesses that are considered by the judge as experts can stay and listen to other's testimony.

[christina]

I think I remember that post. Was it the one that claimed Duane lived at the top of the hill and the poster had walked up the hill and could see Duane's house? I discounted it when FDinLaw replied that Duane's house was not at the top of the hill and FD should know.

When I drove to Nona's old apartment during the trial to see what kind of view the neighbor living in #4 would have of the argument (50 feet away, clear view, sound would have been trapped betweent he buildings), I saw the power lines running directly next to the apartments. I drove around to Skyline and saw where they come out, right across from what I was told was Dipert's house. I ignored that til now as I was wrapped up in the trial.

Long time no see- FDInLaw- come back!

[christina]

Many have suggested that the crime scene was staged.
Items to include:
1. an "out of place" condom wrapper - on the counter.
2. jeans and panties pulled inside out and to the right of Nona's body with blood leading to but not on or under them.

Maybe there was more?

I'm just thinking, if I were the suspect and I wanted the cell phone evidence gone, I would have done more to the phone than just take the battery. You might have found her phone at the bottom of the Lock and Dam. I'm suggesting the possibility that the attacker took the battery, just to have the investigators suspect those that called her most. What an excellent tactic that would have been.

I'm just suggesting new theory, because I feel like I am punching at thin air in this case.

The only ones to suggest the crime scene was staged have been the prosecution and their one expert. And the prosecution in pre gag order form touted teh FBI helping them, but no FBI report, and no FBI witnesses to back that up.
Both ME's that testified said there would have been very little blood except around the body. Bevel said that he thought it was staged because the jeans were laying on the floor by the body and there was no blood on them or under them. The pictures of the crime scene shown in court showed that the apartment was messy, clothes piled on the couch and stuff on the floor. When he was cross examined he backed off that assertion to a degree when it was pointed out that if there was not much blood, why would there be blood under the jeans. Also, when asked under cross examination about the possiblity of the victim removing the pants herself and tossing them on the floor he said that was possible.

[nobody]

I would have never considered turning the heat off in Nona's apartment - especially in the middle of December. However, the killer I suspect did. That person must have been smart to science or possibly fascinated with death - knowing that turning off the heat would chill Nona's body quicker, delaying Rigor Mortis - possibly making investigators to think that the attack occured at a later time in the day.

On a different note: I wonder what Trey's degree was - with his Grandpa being a Doctor, maybe he was following a family tradition? He sure was quick to leave town - I wonder if he got home by the time Nona was found (3+ hour drive).

[nobody]

What would you have done with Nona's cell phone - if you were the killer and you had called/texted her recently?

[hawgustusgloop]

I would have never considered turning the heat off in Nona's apartment - especially in the middle of December. However, the killer I suspect did. That person must have been smart to science or possibly fascinated with death - knowing that turning off the heat would chill Nona's body quicker, delaying Rigor Mortis - possibly making investigators to think that the attack occured at a later time in the day.

On a different note: I wonder what Trey's degree was - with his Grandpa being a Doctor, maybe he was following a family tradition? He sure was quick to leave town - I wonder if he got home by the time Nona was found (3+ hour drive).

IIRC from some newspaper report, Trey York is a geology major, but I could be wrong.

[hawgustusgloop]

I think I remember that post. Was it the one that claimed Duane lived at the top of the hill and the poster had walked up the hill and could see Duane's house? I discounted it when FDinLaw replied that Duane's house was not at the top of the hill and FD should know.

Yes, and I think they were saying his alibi was that he was sleeping at the time(?) or something, and I think FD thought that was ridiculous, too.

[nobody]

If you don't understand why Kevin's print did not have any blood clots in it -
Be sure to take a look at my last posting, "Blood Lividity and Coagulation " in the "Facts Only" thread.

Disclaimer:
Science has never been my strong point - but this article seems to disprove the assumption that Kevin Jones placed the print at the time of Nona's death. If I misunderstood this - please feel free to tear apart this post as you like. I'm not emotionally involved in this case - I just want truth.

[hawgustusgloop]

Sorry, not for sure. Does American Justice sound right? Or it might have been one on the Court TV channel.

Which case was he discussing? That might make it easier to research which show it was and whether or not it will be replayed in the near future.

[christina]

What would you have done with Nona's cell phone - if you were the killer and you had called/texted her recently?

Since the phone was first found under a table without a battery, I have thought it landed there after an arguement/scuffle. My experience is that type phone's battery comes out when dropped. With the obvious lack of thorough crime scene investigation done, it is possible the battery slid across the floor and was under an appliance.

The other reason I have thought this is that she continued to get phone calls and texts from suspects.

[christina]

Which case was he discussing? That might make it easier to research which show it was and whether or not it will be replayed in the near future.

Ok, I'm trying not to celebrate that you are actually asking/trusting my memory on something:)
I will try to find it this afternoon. I can look back through some TV guides as I have not taken my newspapers to recycle yet.

Article in this mornings Courier with Gibbons.

[hawgustusgloop]

Agreed that I do not know what well paid is for Bevel. I was using vernacular common to this board when defense experts are discussed. I believe $200/hour was suggested at the hearing prior to the trial. To me, that is well paid.

All this is from my observation. He never put himself out on a limb to answer a question especially when the defense asked him questions regarding their experts conclusions. He even backed away from some of his earlier statements. It made sense when he told he only saw certain reports and pictures, and was only given information about one supect-Jones.

So, how could you tell he was so intersted in seeking fame and so worried about ruining his professional reputation from his testimony? Did he testify to that?

[christina]

So, how could you tell he was so intersted in seeking fame and so worried about ruining his professional reputation from his testimony? Did he testify to that?

I don't know how else to answer you except how I already have- my personal observations.

[christina]

Which case was he discussing? That might make it easier to research which show it was and whether or not it will be replayed in the near future.

I googled Bevel and Court TV and came up with this- but I am not sure this was the show - my family is about to kill me as they are waiting to leave----

http://www.courttv.com/trials/schwartz/031006_ctv.html

[TJEddie]

I googled Bevel and Court TV and came up with this- but I am not sure this was the show - my family is about to kill me as they are waiting to leave----

http://www.courttv.com/trials/schwartz/031006_ctv.html

Hey! No fair giving the answer away before it even happens.......;)

[lorettalockhorn]

I have heard two conflicting stories of DD - so, I'm not ready to accept either one. The first time, I heard that he claimed to be asleep - to which someone quickly argued the poster did not know what they were talking about. The second time, was that he had time receipts that he readily showed to the RPD. He seems a little bit obnoxious, but nothing suspecting.

<*R>

If DD was asleep, it is unlikely that he would have been able to provide time/date stamped receipts. At this point, I don't know if him doing that is fact or rumor, but since FD said that it was ridic to assert that he was asleep, I'm gonna go with that.

Statistically, DD would have been a suspect. And I would think that him volunteering any information to the investigation at the earliest time, would have speeded up the investigation. Families and/or suspects who don't cooperate with LE make themselves even more suspect. Or so I've often read.

I've only seen DD in interviews and in print and he seemed far from obnoxious.

<*R>

[lorettalockhorn]

Sorry, not for sure. Does American Justice sound right? Or it might have been one on the Court TV channel.

Don't have a clue. From now on, we must pledge to let each other know when a party to the case is on TV, so that we can all judge him/her.

[lorettalockhorn]

Ignoring your sarcasm.....This was something I asked one of the lawyers about as I did not understand why some witnesses were allowed to stay in the courtroom. They told me that witnesses that are considered by the judge as experts can stay and listen to other's testimony.

Not being sarcastic at all, more like flabbergasted. I was seriously trying to understand where you were coming from with your post. I've watched plenty of courtroom proceedings so I guess they make some semblance of sense to me. I honestly thought from your post, that you had some inside information/source on the topic.

[nobody]

I've only seen DD in interviews and in print and he seemed far from obnoxious.

Gee, nobody. Haven't some of your comments been deleted for content? There have been plenty of posters and/or usernames banned here; some come back, some don't. From what I can tell, ox has a mind of his own.

How would you describe DD's comments on the Pageant site - or his closing comments in the court room? I respectfully disagree - I think he had his finger pointed at Kevin Jones and his whispers in Mrs. Dirksmeyers ear throughout the case - he missed most of the court hearings from what I understand - because the courts had him wait outside as a possible witness.

Yes. I asked for two of my post to be deleted - somebody brought to my attention that they contained links to a myspace page for different Trey York that lives in Arkansas. I also made a joking comment about the Little Sister might have been irrate about Nona not answering her calls - I think that got deleted very quickly. It was a joke in bad taste, I admit. Like the Jone's family, I also laugh at funerals occasionally. Sorry for the innappropriate humor.

I do think that Ox was an important part of this argument - he was very factual, but he also brought emotion into his arguments.

[TJEddie]

If you don't understand why Kevin's print did not have any blood clots in it -
Be sure to take a look at my last posting, "Blood Lividity and Coagulation " in the "Facts Only" thread.

Disclaimer:
Science has never been my strong point - but this article seems to disprove the assumption that Kevin Jones placed the print at the time of Nona's death. If I misunderstood this - please feel free to tear apart this post as you like. I'm not emotionally involved in this case - I just want truth.

Very interesting article, nobody.....a must read, IMO.

[lorettalockhorn]

I would have never considered turning the heat off in Nona's apartment - especially in the middle of December. However, the killer I suspect did. That person must have been smart to science or possibly fascinated with death - knowing that turning off the heat would chill Nona's body quicker, delaying Rigor Mortis - possibly making investigators to think that the attack occured at a later time in the day.

On a different note: I wonder what Trey's degree was - with his Grandpa being a Doctor, maybe he was following a family tradition? He sure was quick to leave town - I wonder if he got home by the time Nona was found (3+ hour drive).

That the thermostat was turned down or off is another reason, (besides general principal) that the coroner should have taken Nona's body temperature.

Why is it so suspicious to people that York left town and why do you say "quick to leave town"? Good grief, the boy had cleaned out his dorm room and his car was packed, not a very big car, maybe he wanted to get home for Pete's sake. Why should he hang around, with no room to lounge around in, just waiting to return the cake pan?

[nobody]

Here is a very interesting timeline cut-out from the other thread:

10:14am - Classmate Sara Bailey uses a biology professor's phone to talk to Nona
10:25am – Nona talked with Professor Holly Gale
10:30am - Trey York's ATU Exam in Dean Building
10:30am - State Chief Medical Examiner's "Time of Death" window starts
11:00am - Trey York finishes Exam
11:04am – "Call me, please" Text message, from Trey York, opened on Nona's cell phone (He claimed to be in his dorm room - packing)
11:10am - Jeremy Huggins time card begins at Bayou Bridge Cafe
11:15am - photo of a young couple of was downloaded on Nona's computer
11:30am – Norma Tate Jones sees Kevin Jones at family gas station
12:05pm - Kevin Jones called Jeremy Huggins
12:18pm – Kevin Jone's Food receipt for Bayou Bridge Cafe
12:58pm – "Nevermind" Text message, from Trey York, not opened on Nona's cell phone (He claims to be at Exxon station, near I40)
13:00pm - State Chief Medical Examiner's "Time of Death" window ends
13:04pm - Kevin Jones was logged onto UoA account (Huggins' residence, behind Bayou Bridge Cafe)

[lorettalockhorn]

How would you describe DD's comments on the Pageant site - or his closing comments in the court room? I respectfully disagree - I think he had his finger pointed at Kevin Jones and his whispers in Mrs. Dirksmeyers ear throughout the case - he missed most of the court hearings from what I understand - because the courts had him wait outside as a possible witness.

Yes. I asked for two of my post to be deleted - somebody brought to my attention that they contained links to a myspace page for different Trey York that lives in Arkansas. I also made a joking comment about the Little Sister might have been irrate about Nona not answering her calls - I think that got deleted very quickly. It was a joke in bad taste, I admit. Like the Jone's family, I also laugh at funerals occasionally. Sorry for the innappropriate humor.

I do think that Ox was an important part of this argument - he was very factual, but he also brought emotion into his arguments.

It has been a while since I read the old posts at the pageant site, but I really have no way of knowing that it was DD posting; just like I have no way of knowing if it was actually KJ posting there. (After all, according to CH, Kevin was down in the floor with grief for a week after Nona's death; how could he have been posting?) Was DD quoted anywhere as saying that he posted at the site? I really hate that so much time elapsed from the time of KJ's indictment until now. I may have forgotten more than I remember.

The Diperts believed, as I do that the State arrested the right man for the crime, why wouldn't they "point their finger" at Kevin? I hadn't heard that he was whispering in Carol D's ear during the trial; I thought that he had been waiting with the other witnesses during the trial.

OT: Does Carol go by Dirksmeyer? I thought that her last name is Dipert, but I noticed that you called her Mrs. Dirksmeyer and Christina called her Ms. Are she and Duane no longer married?

As for KJ's laughter at the funeral; I guess I find it hard to believe after reading CH's description of his grief, that he would be able to muster a sense of happiness about anything that week.

[nobody]

DD did admit to posting that.

[lorettalockhorn]

DD did admit to posting that.

Do you have a link? I'd like to read (or re-read) that.

I would have to disagree with his assessment that KJ is a sociopath; I think he's a narcissist.

[nobody]

http://huffcrimeblog.com/index.php?paged=2

Go to this link. Hit CTRL-F and type "Duane".

[nobody]

Main Entry: nar·cis·sism
Pronunciation: 'när-s&-"si-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: German Narzissismus, from Narziss Narcissus, from Latin Narcissus
1 : EGOISM, EGOCENTRISM
2 : love of or sexual desire for one's own body
- nar·cis·sist /'när-s&-sist/ noun or adjective
- nar·cis·sis·tic /"när-s&-'sis-tik/ adjective

Reference: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/narcissist

[lorettalockhorn]

From today' Courier article about the State's case:

Jurors were not offered the option to consider lesser charges for Jones during their deliberations, Gibbons said, as neither he nor the defense requested that option.
"The evidence was that Kevin Jones was te one who killed [Nona], and he did it with a purpose," Gibbons said. "I felt the evidence was conclusive that it was a first-degree murder."

Also from today's article:

The Courier filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for the Dirksmeyer case file and for redacted portions of an Arkansas State Police investigation report regarding a December 2006 Russellille Police incident report naming Ryan Whiteside and Jones in which no charges were filed.
Whiteside, along with Jones' mother, Janice, were present with Jones when Dirksmeyer's body was discovered.
Both FOIA requests have been denied, citing the ongoing nature of the investigation into Dirksmeyer's murder.
Gibbons indicated he would be releasing the files "within a short period of time," although he declined to specify how long that period might be beyond saying he was "certainly not talking months."

The Courier:

Gibbons also told The Courier "several" suspects besides Jones were considered during the course of the investigation. All had alibies, Gibbons said, making the question of further DNA testing redundant.

This is interesting since we have been led to believe that only Jones, JJones, RW and York were fingerprinted:

Former Russellville Police Chief James Bacon initially classified the finger prints as "of good quality, suitable for comparison," and excluded Jones and four other individuals as the donor of the prints.

Dirksmeyer's fingerprints were never taken, and as a result were unavailable to be compared against any prints found by investigators in her apartment.

Jones was obviously the suspect; it sounds to me like LE looked seriously at someone besides York.

[lorettalockhorn]

http://huffcrimeblog.com/index.php?paged=2

Go to this link. Hit CTRL-F and type "Duane".

Thanks so much.

Main Entry: nar·cis·sism
Pronunciation: 'när-s&-"si-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: German Narzissismus, from Narziss Narcissus, from Latin Narcissus
1 : EGOISM, EGOCENTRISM
2 : love of or sexual desire for one's own body
- nar·cis·sist /'när-s&-sist/ noun or adjective
- nar·cis·sis·tic /"när-s&-'sis-tik/ adjective

Reference: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/narcissist

http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Narcissistic-personality-disorder.html

There could be better "definitions" out there; that was the first link I came to.

[nobody]

Dirksmeyer's fingerprints were never taken, and as a result were unavailable to be compared against any prints found by investigators in her apartment.[/I]

Jones was obviously the suspect; it sounds to me like LE looked seriously at someone besides York.

To not finger printing Nona - Wow! It seems like that would have been normal procedures - murder or not. Especially since with a body decaying - you would never get that print again.

Sidenote:
Other than Trey - I have been suspicious of the other Biology classmate. The one that called york that night and the next morning - to tell him about Nona's murder. I think his name was Zack. He also might have been part of "the study group" and the group DD described as harassing Nona.

[nobody]

Judging from Kevin Jone's early jail photos with mop looking hair and sloppy dressed - I wouldn't consider him a narcissist. Then again - I have no claim to being a psychologist.

[lorettalockhorn]

Judging from Kevin Jone's early jail photos with mop looking hair and sloppy dressed - I wouldn't consider him a narcissist. Then again - I have no claim to being a psychologist.

Surely, he was quite disheveled from his "resuscitation attempt" and hysteria. Narcissistic Personality Disorder has many elements other than physical appearance.

From the link: DSM-IV-TRspecifies nine diagnostic criteria for NPD. For the clinician to make the diagnosis, an individual must fit five or more of the following descriptions:

He or she has a grandiose sense of self-importance (exaggerates accomplishments and demands to be considered superior without real evidence of achievement).
He or she lives in a dream world of exceptional success, power, beauty, genius, or "perfect" love.
He or she thinks of him- or herself as "special" or privileged, and that he or she can only be understood by other special or high-status people.
He or she demands excessive amounts of praise or admiration from others.
He or she feels entitled to automatic deference, compliance, or favorable treatment from others.
He or she is exploitative towards others and takes advantage of them.
He or she lacks empathy and does not recognize or identify with others' feelings.
He or she is frequently envious of others or thinks that they are envious of him or her.
He or she "has an attitude" or frequently acts in haughty or arrogant ways.
In addition to these criteria, DSM-IV-TRgroups NPD together with three other personality disorders in its so-called Cluster B. These four disorders are grouped together on the basis of symptom similarities, insofar as patients with these disorders appear to others as overly emotional, unstable, or self-dramatizing. The other three disorders in Cluster B are antisocial, borderline, and histrionic personality disorders.

I'm not a shrink either, but I've run across this type of personality; have seen the diagnosis.

[lorettalockhorn]

Anyone else curious as to why Gibbons is retaining the alleged rape incident report from FOIA? Is it included in the Dirksmeyer case file? Is there a connection, other than KJ's attendence at RW's party?

[TJEddie]

Does anyone know whether the case file will include info on the other suspects and how they were eliminated (verification of alibi, etc.)....or will it be limited to the info gathered on Kevin?

[hawgustusgloop]

Surely, he was quite disheveled from his "resuscitation attempt" and hysteria. Narcissistic Personality Disorder has many elements other than physical appearance.

From the link: DSM-IV-TRspecifies nine diagnostic criteria for NPD. For the clinician to make the diagnosis, an individual must fit five or more of the following descriptions:

He or she has a grandiose sense of self-importance (exaggerates accomplishments and demands to be considered superior without real evidence of achievement).
He or she lives in a dream world of exceptional success, power, beauty, genius, or "perfect" love.
He or she thinks of him- or herself as "special" or privileged, and that he or she can only be understood by other special or high-status people.
He or she demands excessive amounts of praise or admiration from others.
He or she feels entitled to automatic deference, compliance, or favorable treatment from others.
He or she is exploitative towards others and takes advantage of them.
He or she lacks empathy and does not recognize or identify with others' feelings.
He or she is frequently envious of others or thinks that they are envious of him or her.
He or she "has an attitude" or frequently acts in haughty or arrogant ways.
In addition to these criteria, DSM-IV-TRgroups NPD together with three other personality disorders in its so-called Cluster B. These four disorders are grouped together on the basis of symptom similarities, insofar as patients with these disorders appear to others as overly emotional, unstable, or self-dramatizing. The other three disorders in Cluster B are antisocial, borderline, and histrionic personality disorders.

I'm not a shrink either, but I've run across this type of personality; have seen the diagnosis.

Fascinating post. The part about "living in a dream world" and "perfect love" really reminded me of the way K.Jo described his & Nona's relationship. IIRC, he said they had a wonderful relationship that other people only wish they could have, they were very, very, exclusive, they were each other's best friend, etc., but in reality, they were both at the very least seeing other people.

[christina]

Don't have a clue. From now on, we must pledge to let each other know when a party to the case is on TV, so that we can all judge him/her.

I, Christina, do pledge to run to my computer when I see an expert from this case on TV (or hear them on radio) and post on this board the channel and name of show.

[lorettalockhorn]

I, Christina, do pledge to run to my computer when I see an expert from this case on TV (or hear them on radio) and post on this board the channel and name of show.

LOL Does that mean that you don't post on two or three boards at once, cook, watch TV, work XWord puzzles, talk on the phone, listen to the opera and IM all at the same time? Leroy laughs that I haven't figured out a way to type and paint my nails at the same time!

[christina]

Does anyone know whether the case file will include info on the other suspects and how they were eliminated (verification of alibi, etc.)....or will it be limited to the info gathered on Kevin?

Does anyone believe that the case file will be in tact when released?

[lorettalockhorn]

Fascinating post. The part about "living in a dream world" and "perfect love" really reminded me of the way K.Jo described his & Nona's relationship. IIRC, he said they had a wonderful relationship that other people only wish they could have, they were very, very, exclusive, they were each other's best friend, etc., but in reality, they were both at the very least seeing other people.

Oops, didn't see you slip in here and post. I agree. And I can imagine his mother and grandmother feeding those fancies/fantasies of his.

[christina]

LOL Does that mean that you don't post on two or three boards at once, cook, watch TV, work XWord puzzles, talk on the phone, listen to the opera and IM all at the same time? Leroy laughs that I haven't figured out a way to type and paint my nails at the same time!

I haven't gotten on any other boards but read through several titles on the "home page" that looked interesting. My family is harrassing me enough for just being interested(addicted is their word) to this one.
As for the others.... we are afterall women(definiton-multi taskers)

[christina]

Fascinating post. The part about "living in a dream world" and "perfect love" really reminded me of the way K.Jo described his & Nona's relationship. IIRC, he said they had a wonderful relationship that other people only wish they could have, they were very, very, exclusive, they were each other's best friend, etc., but in reality, they were both at the very least seeing other people.

I'm never totally comforatable reading lists of psychosis traits- afraid I might find too many that apply to me!

[christina]

Anyone else curious as to why Gibbons is retaining the alleged rape incident report from FOIA? Is it included in the Dirksmeyer case file? Is there a connection, other than KJ's attendence at RW's party?

Isn't that part of the ongoing lawsuit?

[lorettalockhorn]

Isn't that part of the ongoing lawsuit?

You would think, but that isn't a criminal case, it's civil. Why lump the two together in the article regarding the FOIA request?

[christina]

To not finger printing Nona - Wow! It seems like that would have been normal procedures - murder or not. Especially since with a body decaying - you would never get that print again.

Sidenote:
Other than Trey - I have been suspicious of the other Biology classmate. The one that called york that night and the next morning - to tell him about Nona's murder. I think his name was Zack. He also might have been part of "the study group" and the group DD described as harassing Nona.

One of Gibbons comments in today's article that hit me was about not testing the condom wrapper for dna-
"Gibbons described the condom wrapper found at the scene, on which defense experts claimed to have found male dna exclusive of Jones, as a "trigger" rather than a piece of evidence left by Dirksmeyer's killer, citing that conclusion as one reason why further dna testing was unneccessary."


This hit me for two reasons- originally the police and prosecution said Jones used the wrapper to stage the scene to look like a rape. Then they changed that theory in their closing arguments to it belonging to someone else Nona had slept with and caused Jones to get enraged when he saw it the morning of the murder. Of course Jones was in the house until 12:30 am the previous evening and had not seen it then. And no one can tell for sure when the condom wrapper got there.
The second reason this hit me is- WHAT THE?!??!(just trying to thow some emotion in there for you nobody) As a seasoned prosecutor, how could he think testing the wrapper was not important? When did he form his opinion of Jones guilt? He said he was present at the crime scene the night of the murder. Had the theory of staging already begun? Did Gibbons go over and watch any of Jones voluntary interview?

[christina]

You would think, but that isn't a criminal case, it's civil. Why lump the two together in the article regarding the FOIA request?

That is a good question and I can only surmise that the prosecutor's office might get deposed in the case so they are holding their cards close to their chests?!

[lorettalockhorn]

One of Gibbons comments in today's article that hit me was about not testing the condom wrapper for dna-
"Gibbons described the condom wrapper found at the scene, on which defense experts claimed to have found male dna exclusive of Jones, as a "trigger" rather than a piece of evidence left by Dirksmeyer's killer, citing that conclusion as one reason why further dna testing was unneccessary."


This hit me for two reasons- originally the police and prosecution said Jones used the wrapper to stage the scene to look like a rape. Then they changed that theory in their closing arguments to it belonging to someone else Nona had slept with and caused Jones to get enraged when he saw it the morning of the murder. Of course Jones was in the house until 12:30 am the previous evening and had not seen it then. And no one can tell for sure when the condom wrapper got there.
The second reason this hit me is- WHAT THE?!??!(just trying to thow some emotion in there for you nobody) As a seasoned prosecutor, how could he think testing the wrapper was not important? When did he form his opinion of Jones guilt? He said he was present at the crime scene the night of the murder. Had the theory of staging already begun? Did Gibbons go over and watch any of Jones voluntary interview?

Without having been there to actually hear the witnesses and closing arguments, I couldn't help but wonder if there was something in the testimony that literally changed the States' minds about the wrapper. I find it even harder to believe that Nona had a tryst between the time KJ left her apartment and when she would have had to leave for her test, than I do have believing KJ's lies about the nature of their relationship. In my mind, if KJ had seen the wrapper the night before, he would have killed her the night before. It's a big part of why I tend to think that it was planted.

[lorettalockhorn]

That is a good question and I can only surmise that the prosecutor's office might get deposed in the case so they are holding their cards close to their chests?!

Wonder if RW's attorneys are going to try to make something stick with regard to the "no press" request? I can tell you, that is considered a courtesy, nothing more, unless there has been relatively new legislation that I don't know about.

This is one of the more frivolous sounding lawsuits that I've read about lately. (Pantless Man vs. Drycleaners not included.) I still question that the Dirksmeyer case file and the alleged rape incident report were lumped together in the article today. I don't see them as being particularly intertwined. Maybe I misread, maybe it was not carefully worded.

[TJEddie]

About that condom wrapper....if I'm not mistaken, Kevin was at Nona's on the night of the 13th, there is no reported contact between them on the 14th and the murder happened on the 15th. So the 14th would have been open for this supposed tryst with someone else.

[sololobo]

When I drove to Nona's old apartment during the trial to see what kind of view the neighbor living in #4 would have of the argument (50 feet away, clear view, sound would have been trapped betweent he buildings), I saw the power lines running directly next to the apartments. I drove around to Skyline and saw where they come out, right across from what I was told was Dipert's house. I ignored that til now as I was wrapped up in the trial.

Long time no see- FDInLaw- come back!

I found the house. Indeed it is right across the street from the powerline going to Nona's apartment.

[lorettalockhorn]

About that condom wrapper....if I'm not mistaken, Kevin was at Nona's on the night of the 13th, there is no reported contact between them on the 14th and the murder happened on the 15th. So the 14th would have been open for this supposed tryst with someone else.

Did the ME find any evidence of a sexual encounter with anyone other than KJ? Or have an opinion about whether or not she had had sexual contact with anyone other than KJ? I think someone asked a while back about whether or not the ME would be able to tell if there were any chemicals present from a condom, but don't remember if it was answered.

Kinda OT, but I've wondered where Kevin was on the 14th. Did he go back to Fayetteville? Stay with RW and party? Spy on Nona? His mother didn't know that he was in town until he arrived home after midnight on the morning of the 15th.

[TJEddie]

One of Gibbons comments in today's article that hit me was about not testing the condom wrapper for dna-
"Gibbons described the condom wrapper found at the scene, on which defense experts claimed to have found male dna exclusive of Jones, as a "trigger" rather than a piece of evidence left by Dirksmeyer's killer, citing that conclusion as one reason why further dna testing was unneccessary."


This hit me for two reasons- originally the police and prosecution said Jones used the wrapper to stage the scene to look like a rape. Then they changed that theory in their closing arguments to it belonging to someone else Nona had slept with and caused Jones to get enraged when he saw it the morning of the murder. Of course Jones was in the house until 12:30 am the previous evening and had not seen it then. And no one can tell for sure when the condom wrapper got there.
The second reason this hit me is- WHAT THE?!??!(just trying to thow some emotion in there for you nobody) As a seasoned prosecutor, how could he think testing the wrapper was not important? When did he form his opinion of Jones guilt? He said he was present at the crime scene the night of the murder. Had the theory of staging already begun? Did Gibbons go over and watch any of Jones voluntary interview?

I agree, christina. They have DNA from a condom wrapper found at the scene of a murder and they are tap dancing all around their reasons for not investigating the source.....even now. Incredible, IMO.

(My own suspicion is that they have a very good idea whose DNA it is and are concerned about how that info would further reflect on the thoroughness of the investigation. That's just a guess, though.)

[jonikay]

Did the ME find any evidence of a sexual encounter with anyone other than KJ? Or have an opinion about whether or not she had had sexual contact with anyone other than KJ? I think someone asked a while back about whether or not the ME would be able to tell if there were any chemicals present from a condom, but don't remember if it was answered.

Kinda OT, but I've wondered where Kevin was on the 14th. Did he go back to Fayetteville? Stay with RW and party? Spy on Nona? His mother didn't know that he was in town until he arrived home after midnight on the morning of the 15th.
Oh lo, you're getting confused . . . Nona was killed on Friday the 15th. Kevin came home from Fayetteville on Monday the 10th and stayed the night with Nona. He went home to Dover on Tuesday the 11th. Tuesday the 11th was the time that Kevin's parents realized he was home from Fayetteville. On Thursday the 14th (contrary to TJ's statement), Kevin went to Nona's house and they had Whatta-Burger and just hung out and talked. Kevin was there from about 7 to about 1230, which would have been the morning of the 15th. We have discussed this topic a few times before, but it's easy to forget.

[TJEddie]

Kinda OT, but I've wondered where Kevin was on the 14th. Did he go back to Fayetteville? Stay with RW and party? Spy on Nona? His mother didn't know that he was in town until he arrived home after midnight on the morning of the 15th.

I'd have to recheck the timeline, but I thought Kevin slept with Nona the night of the 13th, left Nona's house after midnight (wee hours of 14th), went home and talked to his mom until 3 am, spent the rest of the 14th doing who-knows-what.....and the rest is pretty much documented.

[jonikay]

I'd have to recheck the timeline, but I thought Kevin slept with Nona the night of the 13th, left Nona's house after midnight (wee hours of 14th), went home and talked to his mom until 3 am, spent the rest of the 14th doing who-knows-what.....and the rest is pretty much documented.
Nope, it was Thursday night that Kevin and Nona hung out until the wee hours of the next morning. The last time they "slept together" was Monday night, the 10th.

[lorettalockhorn]

Oh lo, you're getting confused . . . Nona was killed on Friday the 15th. Kevin came home from Fayetteville on Monday the 10th and stayed the night with Nona. He went home to Dover on Tuesday the 11th. Tuesday the 11th was the time that Kevin's parents realized he was home from Fayetteville. On Thursday the 14th (contrary to TJ's statement), Kevin went to Nona's house and they had Whatta-Burger and just hung out and talked. Kevin was there from about 7 to about 1230, which would have been the morning of the 15th. We have discussed this topic a few times before, but it's easy to forget.


I would have bet LLN that he told LE in the taped interview that he and Nona had sex the night of the 13th and that also his semen was found by the ME to verify that they had had sex recently to the murder. He was at Nona's the night of the 14th and into the wee hours of the morning, i.e. left at 12:30and called her later. He stayed up and talked with his mother until later in the morning. I believe that JJones said at some point that when KJ came home late that night/early morning of the 14th-15th, that that was when she knew he was in town. My question is, did he go back to Fayetteville after his date with Nona the 13th? Didn't he have final exams that week? Was UofA's fall semester and test schedule over as early as the 10th? Where was he staying up until the time that he went home the morning before Nona's murder?

[lorettalockhorn]

I agree, christina. They have DNA from a condom wrapper found at the scene of a murder and they are tap dancing all around their reasons for not investigating the source.....even now. Incredible, IMO.

(My own suspicion is that they have a very good idea whose DNA it is and are concerned about how that info would further reflect on the thoroughness of the investigation. That's just a guess, though.)

You think that LE or the State knows whose DNA is on the condom wrapper and it will solve the case, but they are sitting on that information? Wow! Talk about your conspiracy theories. LE has already been embarrassed, what have they got to lose? Why not use the information to solve the crime and come back into the good graces of the community?

[jonikay]

I remember him stating that he and Nona had argued that he had been spending too much time with friends and not enough time with her since arriving from Fayetteville. I believe he meant that this was between the Tuesday and Friday when she was murdered. When christina gets on or whatever, she could surely vouch for me on this point. I don't think for a second he went back to Fayetteville. He stated in taped interviews that he and Nona did not have sex Thursday night. It's in my notes. Also, remember the crude Gibbons comment asking why a girl like Nona would wear 4 day old panties or whatever. He was saying that because KJ said the last time they had sex was on the 10th.

[TJEddie]

You think that LE or the State knows whose DNA is on the condom wrapper and it will solve the case, but they are sitting on that information? Wow! Talk about your conspiracy theories. LE has already been embarrassed, what have they got to lose? Why not use the information to solve the crime and come back into the good graces of the community?

I didn't say they knew whose DNA was on the wrapper, I said I suspect they have an idea. I didn't say it would solve the case, I suggested it might cast further doubt on the thoroughness of the investigation.

I'll ask of you the same thing I have seen other posters ask of you before.....don't put words in my mouth. Thanks.

[lorettalockhorn]

I didn't say they knew whose DNA was on the wrapper, I said I suspect they have an idea. I didn't say it would solve the case, I suggested it might cast further doubt on the thoroughness of the investigation.

I'll ask of you the same thing I have seen other posters ask of you before.....don't put words in my mouth. Thanks.


Not putting words in your mouth at all. Just making my own interpretation of your post. Didn't realize that I had been asked by other posters to not put words in their mouths.

(I should maybe add to my signature that I post my thoughts and opinions, not others'; unless I include a link or a quote.)

At any rate, the State has nothing to lose by opening up the investigation to scrutiny or passing it on to another agency. The have everything to gain my doing so, the gratitude of exposing a brutal murderer comes to mind.

If the condom wrapper was planted, it's unlikely that the contributor of the DNA will ever be found unless he/she is in a database somewhere or added at a later date.

[lorettalockhorn]

I remember him stating that he and Nona had argued that he had been spending too much time with friends and not enough time with her since arriving from Fayetteville. I believe he meant that this was between the Tuesday and Friday when she was murdered. When christina gets on or whatever, she could surely vouch for me on this point. I don't think for a second he went back to Fayetteville. He stated in taped interviews that he and Nona did not have sex Thursday night. It's in my notes. Also, remember the crude Gibbons comment asking why a girl like Nona would wear 4 day old panties or whatever. He was saying that because KJ said the last time they had sex was on the 10th.

I do remember that KJ told LE that he and Nona didn't have sex on the night of the 14th. My question was, if he had only gone home to his parents' home after he saw Nona that night but had been out of school since whenever, where was he staying? Was UofA's fall semester and test schedule over by the 10th? Did I misread or misinterpret JJones comment about KJ coming home from his semester that night/morning? I guess if he had been home for several days, that would account for her wanting him to get his room cleaned up.

Re: the lightly laundered or unlaundered panties, I had asked earlier about whether or not it was verified that the clothes found near the body were what she wore to her test. I have always thought that the killer got rid of that day's clothes and planted the soiled clothes, taken from the hamper (or wherever) near her body. Had never heard about Gibbons' crude comment; frankly I would wonder why anyone would wear unlaundered panties, not just Nona or "a girl like Nona", but anyone.

[christina]

Did the ME find any evidence of a sexual encounter with anyone other than KJ? Or have an opinion about whether or not she had had sexual contact with anyone other than KJ? I think someone asked a while back about whether or not the ME would be able to tell if there were any chemicals present from a condom, but don't remember if it was answered.

Kinda OT, but I've wondered where Kevin was on the 14th. Did he go back to Fayetteville? Stay with RW and party? Spy on Nona? His mother didn't know that he was in town until he arrived home after midnight on the morning of the 15th.

That was asked of both ME's and if I remember correctly, they both agreed that consensual sex could have taken place, with a condom used of course.

He was with Nona on the night of the 14th, left after midnight(the 15th)

[christina]

I am pretty sure the show was called Forensic Files on the Court TV station. It aired Wednesday Night.

[lorettalockhorn]

That was asked of both ME's and if I remember correctly, they both agreed that consensual sex could have taken place, with a condom used of course.

He was with Nona on the night of the 14th, left after midnight(the 15th)


Right, so where was he the day of the 14th? If he and Nona had a date on the 13th and then not again until the night of the 14th, I wonder where he was in between, for instance, did he go back to Fayetteville.

I think the question was asked earlier about whether or not a condom, or the chemicals on a condom would leave traces that could be detected. Maybe no one asked that of the experts.

[christina]

Oh lo, you're getting confused . . . Nona was killed on Friday the 15th. Kevin came home from Fayetteville on Monday the 10th and stayed the night with Nona. He went home to Dover on Tuesday the 11th. Tuesday the 11th was the time that Kevin's parents realized he was home from Fayetteville. On Thursday the 14th (contrary to TJ's statement), Kevin went to Nona's house and they had Whatta-Burger and just hung out and talked. Kevin was there from about 7 to about 1230, which would have been the morning of the 15th. We have discussed this topic a few times before, but it's easy to forget.

I thought it was one day later- home the 11th with Nona, next night 12th with friends, 13th was parents , then 14th with Nona again.

[christina]

Not putting words in your mouth at all. Just making my own interpretation of your post. Didn't realize that I had been asked by other posters to not put words in their mouths.

(I should maybe add to my signature that I post my thoughts and opinions, not others'; unless I include a link or a quote.)

At any rate, the State has nothing to lose by opening up the investigation to scrutiny or passing it on to another agency. The have everything to gain my doing so, the gratitude of exposing a brutal murderer comes to mind.

If the condom wrapper was planted, it's unlikely that the contributor of the DNA will ever be found unless he/she is in a database somewhere or added at a later date.

Disagree here, their pride/reputation is at stake- especially if another agency finds holes in their theories and work, and the other agency finds the real killer.

If the condom wrapper was from one of the men Nona had sex with and their dna can be obtained and compared... it could lead to an arrest.

[lorettalockhorn]

I am pretty sure the show was called Forensic Files on the Court TV station. It aired Wednesday Night.

Thanks. Found this: http://www.azcentral.com/community/gilbert/articles/1007gr-murderZ12.html

And this: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/routier/18.html

Sometimes my DISH guide shows an episode name, synopsis and date for Forensic Files, sometimes, it shows nada!

[christina]

Right, so where was he the day of the 14th? If he and Nona had a date on the 13th and then not again until the night of the 14th, I wonder where he was in between, for instance, did he go back to Fayetteville.

I think the question was asked earlier about whether or not a condom, or the chemicals on a condom would leave traces that could be detected. Maybe no one asked that of the experts.

I believe I was the one who posted about this. No expert was asked and I was dissappointed as I googled condom and forensic and came up with many articles about it.
Does anyone know what kind of condom it was? Don't mean to be crude, but if it was said in court I missed it.

[lorettalockhorn]

Disagree here, their pride/reputation is at stake- especially if another agency finds holes in their theories and work, and the other agency finds the real killer.

If the condom wrapper was from one of the men Nona had sex with and their dna can be obtained and compared... it could lead to an arrest.

I cannot imagine any reason that the State would want for a murder to go unsolved and for a murderer to go unpunished.

Gibbons said in The Courier article this morning that the other suspects had alibis, so it might be hard for any other agency to compel DNA samples if those alibis still check out.

[lorettalockhorn]

I believe I was the one who posted about this. No expert was asked and I was dissappointed as I googled condom and forensic and came up with many articles about it.
Does anyone know what kind of condom it was? Don't mean to be crude, but if it was said in court I missed it.


Okay, good. I thought that it was you or nobody, I get y'all confused sometimes, sorry.

I've never heard what brand or kind of condom it was, but some are treated with spermicide for instance and some are sheepskin as opposed to latex. I think it's a legitimate thing to wonder about.

[christina]

Thanks. Found this: http://www.azcentral.com/community/gilbert/articles/1007gr-murderZ12.html

And this: http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/routier/18.html

Sometimes my DISH guide shows an episode name, synopsis and date for Forensic Files, sometimes, it shows nada!

I've been outed- I do not attend church on Wednesdays with the family- that is my quiet night!!!

[christina]

Okay, good. I thought that it was you or nobody, I get y'all confused sometimes, sorry.

I've never heard what brand or kind of condom it was, but some are treated with spermicide for instance and some are sheepskin as opposed to latex. I think it's a legitimate thing to wonder about.

Now that made me laugh!

There are all different types of condoms nowadays I'm sure. Jonikay- when the officer asked Jones about using a condom, did he say the brand/type, anything?

[lorettalockhorn]

I've been outed- I do not attend church on Wednesdays with the family- that is my quiet night!!!


HAHAHA I'm a Presbyter, so I don't have to play hooky from Wednesday services. Although I did this morning; I tried to swallow something and it went down wrong and gave me a tummy ache.

[christina]

I cannot imagine any reason that the State would want for a murder to go unsolved and for a murderer to go unpunished.

Gibbons said in The Courier article this morning that the other suspects had alibis, so it might be hard for any other agency to compel DNA samples if those alibis still check out.

Those are the documents I am most interested in. Considering some of the work the investigators did(or didn't do) I want to see just how deep they researched the alibi's. Two examples come to mind- police interviewing Bean and never asking what the boyfriend she saw looked like- just assuming it was Jones, and the prosecutor York how he paid for his gas and when York said with his dad's credit card(chuckle from the older people in the courtroom) I was ready for the prosecutor to enter it into evidence.

[upallnight]

[QUOTE=christina;8926592]

Well, as a taxpayer and a subscriber to the paper, I have to say that I appreciate that The Courier printed the story. We have every right to know that there are potential rapists in the community, as well as people who may possibly be using illegal drugs and providing alcohol to underage drinkers, especially if one of those people is under indictment for murder. The Whitesides wouldn't have been mentioned if the alleged incident hadn't occurred on their property.

Well said!

[TJEddie]

Disagree here, their pride/reputation is at stake- especially if another agency finds holes in their theories and work, and the other agency finds the real killer.

If the condom wrapper was from one of the men Nona had sex with and their dna can be obtained and compared... it could lead to an arrest.

I think that would be a best case scenario. A worse case scenario would be if they identified the DNA as belonging to someone who should have been investigated thoroughly, but was not. End result: A possible alternative suspect, but insufficient evidence for an arrest and insufficient evidence to clear him.

[jonikay]

Now that made me laugh!

There are all different types of condoms nowadays I'm sure. Jonikay- when the officer asked Jones about using a condom, did he say the brand/type, anything?
KJ specifically stated that he and Nona DID NOT use condoms at all. She was on the pill or the shot. He was asked what type of condom he used when he had sex with the other girl and he said trojan ribbed. It seems awful to even post that, but it's what he said. Please tell me, christina, that you remember that KJ said he and Nona did not use condoms.

[lorettalockhorn]

KJ specifically stated that he and Nona DID NOT use condoms at all. She was on the pill or the shot. He was asked what type of condom he used when he had sex with the other girl and he said trojan ribbed. It seems awful to even post that, but it's what he said. Please tell me, christina, that you remember that KJ said he and Nona did not use condoms.

I think that he told LE during one of the interviews that he and Nona didn't use condoms because she was on the pill, but I hadn't heard that about what kind of condoms he was using with any other partners. (So glad that he did!)

[christina]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;8926606]Originally Posted by christina

Well, as a taxpayer and a subscriber to the paper, I have to say that I appreciate that The Courier printed the story. We have every right to know that there are potential rapists in the community, as well as people who may possibly be using illegal drugs and providing alcohol to underage drinkers, especially if one of those people is under indictment for murder. The Whitesides wouldn't have been mentioned if the alleged incident hadn't occurred on their property.

Well said!

The above in bold was originally posted by Loretta, not Christina

[christina]

KJ specifically stated that he and Nona DID NOT use condoms at all. She was on the pill or the shot. He was asked what type of condom he used when he had sex with the other girl and he said trojan ribbed. It seems awful to even post that, but it's what he said. Please tell me, christina, that you remember that KJ said he and Nona did not use condoms.

That is my memory as well- that Nona was on the pill and she and Jones did not use condoms but he did with the other girl. I did not make a note on what brand and was hoping you did!

Anyone else out there know/hear what type condom was found at the scene?

[christina]

Nobody(name still cracks me up) makes a good point. Drinking parties are rampant in our "dry" county. However, I agree, underage drinking and those that supply them are unacceptable. (Unless of course they are serving in the military. IMO old enough to fight equals old enough to drink. But I digress...)

[christina]

I think that would be a best case scenario. A worse case scenario would be if they identified the DNA as belonging to someone who should have been investigated thoroughly, but was not. End result: A possible alternative suspect, but insufficient evidence for an arrest and insufficient evidence to clear him.

Agree- that would be worse!

[TJEddie]

Question: IIRC, Bacon said the fingerprint on the condom wrapper was not Kevin's. Did he ever specifically say that anybody else's fingerprint was compared and/or eliminated? (I'm referring to the condom wrapper, not the lamp base.)

Oops....nevermind. I was wrong. Prints on condom wrapper unusable.

[sololobo]

Was it determined what substance on the condom wrapper contained DNA? Was it saliva?

[sololobo]

The police originally had six suspects. If Kevin, Trey, Duane, and Jeremy were four of them, who were the other two?

[sololobo]

Was Nona's cell phone ever identified as to make and model?

[sololobo]

Supposedly all the suspects besides Kevin had good alibis. If Trey was a suspect, did he have a good, verifiable alibi? It didn't seem so at the trial. Or did the police take his word for his actions that day? If so, how about the other suspects? Can their alibis be equally suspect?

[christina]

The police originally had six suspects. If Kevin, Trey, Duane, and Jeremy were four of them, who were the other two?

I've heard that mantra but question it. They only fingerprinted 2- Jones and York. And after reading the article with Gibbons yesterday, I am more convinced they had made their minds up it was Jones within the first 24-48 hours. Jeremy was interviewed by the prosecution but it was the defense who aparantly found out more information about him and made the statemnt he haad lied about the nature of his relationship to Nona. Rumor is there were many communications between them of an intimate nature, and he had told police they were casual friends. My understanding was Duane was neither interviewed or suspected.

[christina]

Was Nona's cell phone ever identified as to make and model?

They showed it in court- it was an older flip style, Samsung I think. It had a limited storage capacity, could only store 20 missed calls, and you had to chose whether to store something to the SIM card. The only number saved on the SIM card was Chelsey Huckaby(sp?). It had the option every time a message is sent to- save, send, or send and save. When asked why there were no saved sent messages, the witness said the user did not chose that option.
All this made it odder to me that someone would want this phone for their own use. It was outdated.

[christina]

Supposedly all the suspects besides Kevin had good alibis. If Trey was a suspect, did he have a good, verifiable alibi? It didn't seem so at the trial. Or did the police take his word for his actions that day? If so, how about the other suspects? Can their alibis be equally suspect?

Again, especially after reading Gibbons interview in yesterday's paper, I beleivev they had narrowed their scope to Jones. Two examples-Gibbons saying they thought the condom wrapper was a trigger for Jones so he did not think it needed furthere testing, and the neighbor being interviewed by police but never asked what "the boyfriend" looked like.

My experience is that when a presumtion is made about a person, everything that person says or does runs through that filter in your mind and confirms that presumption. You are told a co worker is a snob, when that person walks through a room you are in and does not speak to you- it is confirmed in your mind they are a snob. When actually they could have just been focussed on something else. But if you continue to see them as a snob, that belief is made stronger with no real evidence, just the interpretation made through a filter. It can be worse if you are talking with a group and all have the same presumption. The police testified they met daily to talk about the case.
The police and Jones- he got on the body so he was contaminating the crime scene. He smiled at the funeral so he really doesn't care. He waited on customers at the gas station that afternoon so he could be seen and have an alibi. And so on and so on.....
When I first read the account of the murder it sounded very suspicious to me and I made the assumption Jones was guilty. Then when he was arrested, it confirmed it in my mind. As time went on I started to think about being on the jury and the importance of keeping an open mind.
It was not until I heard the 911 tape and saw the voluntary interview with Jones that I came to the belief he was more likely to be innocent.

I did not mean to turn this into a thesis!

[TJEddie]

The police originally had six suspects. If Kevin, Trey, Duane, and Jeremy were four of them, who were the other two?

On the Disposition of Evidence list posted in nobody's "Facts Only" thread, Miranda Rights "Fonns" (Forms?) are only listed for Kevin and Trey. That list also contains a long list of statements given by numerous individuals, but Trey's statement is not among them.

[optimumprimal78]

The police originally had six suspects. If Kevin, Trey, Duane, and Jeremy were four of them, who were the other two?

If I was to guess I would say CH and RW but they probably weren't considered for very long.

[TJEddie]

Supposedly all the suspects besides Kevin had good alibis. If Trey was a suspect, did he have a good, verifiable alibi? It didn't seem so at the trial. Or did the police take his word for his actions that day? If so, how about the other suspects? Can their alibis be equally suspect?

That's my #1 question, sololobo.

I agree with christina's filter analysis, and with your observation that Trey's trial testimony casts doubt on how well other alibis were checked out. The prosecutor's seeming disinterest in the source of the DNA furthers my suspicions.....I think it's likely the DNA belongs to someone who, in retrospect, should have been investigated much more thoroughly. If that's the case, I can see how the prosecutor might shy away from pursuing it, as revealing that person's identity would serve to do 2 things: 1) cast suspicion on a person the prosecutor apparently believes is innocent, and 2) further point out weaknesses in the case and the investigation. Anyone else have any ideas on why the source of the DNA wouldn't be actively pursued?

[TJEddie]

If I was to guess I would say CH and RW but they probably weren't considered for very long.

As I recall, there was a "rights form" listed on the Disposition of Evidence for Ryan Whiteside. Unlike Kevin and Trey, his wasn't specified as Miranda Rights....maybe just a typo, maybe means his was different. I don't know.

[hawgustusgloop]

As I recall, there was a "rights form" listed on the Disposition of Evidence for Ryan Whiteside. Unlike Kevin and Trey, his wasn't specified as Miranda Rights....maybe just a typo, maybe means his was different. I don't know.

I imagine the police interrogated RW at some point, since he was quoted as saying K.Jo didn't touch anything but Nona and a greeting card, so maybe they had him sign an acknowledgment that he was not under arrest, did not have to answer any questions, was free to leave at any time, etc.? Not exactly Miranda warnings, but perhaps just his rights under interrogation? This is a total guess, BTW.

[hawgustusgloop]

If I was to guess I would say CH and RW but they probably weren't considered for very long.

Wasn't there mention of some guy in a study group who was harrassing Nona? I would imagine that wouldn't have been Trey since Nona texted him a lot. What about the mysterious Jared? He seemed to capture the attention of the jury. Maybe Jared is the study group guy?

[TJEddie]

Wasn't there mention of some guy in a study group who was harrassing Nona? I would imagine that wouldn't have been Trey since Nona texted him a lot. What about the mysterious Jared? He seemed to capture the attention of the jury. Maybe Jared is the study group guy?

I believe I cited an article a few days ago wherein Gibbons acknowledges that Nona was "having problems" with 3 or 4 men around the time of her death. Also, in some of my recent reading, I ran across a reference to a text message Nona allegedly received on Dec 9 asking, "Why are you leading me on?" I would assume that all of these people were given at least a cursory glance.....whether their names were those that became public, I don't know.

[TJEddie]

Thanks for weighing in, sweetpresley. Sounds like you might have some valuable input here.

[lorettalockhorn]

I've heard that mantra but question it. They only fingerprinted 2- Jones and York. And after reading the article with Gibbons yesterday, I am more convinced they had made their minds up it was Jones within the first 24-48 hours. Jeremy was interviewed by the prosecution but it was the defense who aparantly found out more information about him and made the statemnt he haad lied about the nature of his relationship to Nona. Rumor is there were many communications between them of an intimate nature, and he had told police they were casual friends. My understanding was Duane was neither interviewed or suspected.

From yesterday's Courier article: Former Russellville Police Chief James Bacon initially classified the finger prints as "of good quality, suitable for comparison," and excluded Jones and four other individuals as the donor of the prints.

According to the article five (excluding Nona; she was not fingerprinted for some harebrained reason), individuals were fingerpinted. I'd guess KJ, JJones, RW, and some combination of DD, York, or maybe the guy who testified to having had slept with Nona.

My guesses on the original suspects would include DD for statistical reasons, if nothing else, and also Chelsea. Isn't she a weighlifter and hiker? She could have the physical strength to weild the blow and could have hiked in according to Sololobo's scenario. She would have had access and Nona's trust to be welcomed into the apartment. If she had testified, would her alibi have been any more or less questionable that Dipert's or York's?

[hawgustusgloop]

From yesterday's Courier article: Former Russellville Police Chief James Bacon initially classified the finger prints as "of good quality, suitable for comparison," and excluded Jones and four other individuals as the donor of the prints.

According to the article five (excluding Nona; she was not fingerprinted for some harebrained reason), individuals were fingerpinted. I'd guess KJ, JJones, RW, and some combination of DD, York, or maybe the guy who testified to having had slept with Nona.

My guesses on the original suspects would include DD for statistical reasons, if nothing else, and also Chelsea. Isn't she a weighlifter and hiker? She could have the physical strength to weild the blow and could have hiked in according to Sololobo's scenario. She would have had access and Nona's trust to be welcomed into the apartment. If she had testified, would her alibi have been any more or less questionable that Dipert's or York's?

Well, I guess it's no wonder then why she is rumored to have had an attorney with her during questioning, if she may have been a suspect.

[christina]

From yesterday's Courier article: Former Russellville Police Chief James Bacon initially classified the finger prints as "of good quality, suitable for comparison," and excluded Jones and four other individuals as the donor of the prints.

According to the article five (excluding Nona; she was not fingerprinted for some harebrained reason), individuals were fingerpinted. I'd guess KJ, JJones, RW, and some combination of DD, York, or maybe the guy who testified to having had slept with Nona.

My guesses on the original suspects would include DD for statistical reasons, if nothing else, and also Chelsea. Isn't she a weighlifter and hiker? She could have the physical strength to weild the blow and could have hiked in according to Sololobo's scenario. She would have had access and Nona's trust to be welcomed into the apartment. If she had testified, would her alibi have been any more or less questionable that Dipert's or York's?

Frost's testimony on the stand was that they fingerprinted only two suspects-York and Jones, and only obtained dna from 1-Jones. He had RW and Janice Jones printed since they were at the scene and wanted to rule theirs out.

Isn't that amazing that the ME never fingerprinted Nona during ther autopsy!

[christina]

BTW, hello everyone.

Don't everyone address the new person all at once.....

Hello Sweetpresley-welcome!

[hawgustusgloop]

Nice to be here. Can anyone tell me why the smileys and fonts etc, etc don't seem to work for me? Do they not usually work for new posters or is there some technical difficulties going on?

Ya gotta have your smilies! Welcome.

[christina]

Wasn't there mention of some guy in a study group who was harrassing Nona? I would imagine that wouldn't have been Trey since Nona texted him a lot. What about the mysterious Jared? He seemed to capture the attention of the jury. Maybe Jared is the study group guy?

Dipert mentioned that in an interview I think. Jones in his taped voluntary interview said that Nona had told him about a guy bothering her, made a move on her and she kicked him in the groin. In court-Nona's mother turned to the woman next to her and nodded affirmative. I would not rule Trey out since he lied to police about their relationship. Their biology lab partner said he called him to tell him about Nona becasue he knew they were boy friend and girlfriend.

After the jury was dismissed that day several people were asking the lawyers about Jared. They were saying that he was a strange guy that was texting Nona a lot. I got the impression he was looked at but not taken seriously. Apparantly the jury saw his name all over the cell records they were given.

[jonikay]

Compadre, the chickadee from channel 7 was the tall, slender, skanky blonde who kept coming and going. She was much more concerned with herself, looks, etc. than the goings on of the trial. She actually started out doing ok on her reports, but after a few days, when she started leaving real early etc., her reports started lacking. Her name was Anne Presley, of no relation to me, by the way.

The reporter from channell 4 was the one with shoulder length reddish brown hair. Her name is Cecily Pond Mayo. She actually did an ok job on her coverage, considering all of the other coverage hers was superior over everyone else's. Over everyone, newspaper, tv, etc, it is my opinion this woman did the best job. The local (Courier) paper's coverage got better I thought, but was still definitely lacking.

Watch the e-videos on these links and see if maybe you are not mistaken.

http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0707/440646.html

http://arkansasmatters.com/content/fulltext/?cid=57832
You're right. I agree with what you stated, it's just a mix up of stations. Just a mistake, not a question of my reliability, imo. But thanks.

[hawgustusgloop]

Compadre, the chickadee from channel 7 was the tall, slender, skanky blonde who kept coming and going. She was much more concerned with herself, looks, etc. than the goings on of the trial. She actually started out doing ok on her reports, but after a few days, when she started leaving real early etc., her reports started lacking. Her name was Anne Presley, of no relation to me, by the way.

The reporter from channell 4 was the one with shoulder length reddish brown hair. Her name is Cecily Pond Mayo. She actually did an ok job on her coverage, considering all of the other coverage hers was superior over everyone else's. Over everyone, newspaper, tv, etc, it is my opinion this woman did the best job. The local (Courier) paper's coverage got better I thought, but was still definitely lacking.

Watch the e-videos on these links and see if maybe you are not mistaken.

http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0707/440646.html

http://arkansasmatters.com/content/fulltext/?cid=57832

Is that the attractive lady all the attorneys were drooling over? I think Christina said they were joking with the judge that she was a distraction.

[christina]

Compadre, the chickadee from channel 7 was the tall, slender, skanky blonde who kept coming and going. She was much more concerned with herself, looks, etc. than the goings on of the trial. She actually started out doing ok on her reports, but after a few days, when she started leaving real early etc., her reports started lacking. Her name was Anne Presley, of no relation to me, by the way.

The reporter from channell 4 was the one with shoulder length reddish brown hair. Her name is Cecily Pond Mayo. She actually did an ok job on her coverage, considering all of the other coverage hers was superior over everyone else's. Over everyone, newspaper, tv, etc, it is my opinion this woman did the best job. The local (Courier) paper's coverage got better I thought, but was still definitely lacking.

Watch the e-videos on these links and see if maybe you are not mistaken.

http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0707/440646.html

http://arkansasmatters.com/content/fulltext/?cid=57832


So you were also in the courtroom for the trial?!?!

[lorettalockhorn]

Compadre, the chickadee from channel 7 was the tall, slender, skanky blonde who kept coming and going. She was much more concerned with herself, looks, etc. than the goings on of the trial. She actually started out doing ok on her reports, but after a few days, when she started leaving real early etc., her reports started lacking. Her name was Anne Presley, of no relation to me, by the way.

The reporter from channell 4 was the one with shoulder length reddish brown hair. Her name is Cecily Pond Mayo. She actually did an ok job on her coverage, considering all of the other coverage hers was superior over everyone else's. Over everyone, newspaper, tv, etc, it is my opinion this woman did the best job. The local (Courier) paper's coverage got better I thought, but was still definitely lacking.

Watch the e-videos on these links and see if maybe you are not mistaken.

http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0707/440646.html

http://arkansasmatters.com/content/fulltext/?cid=57832

hmmm I watched different channels from day to day and I swear, I don't remember anyone who was "skanky looking"; makes you wonder what her appearance would have been if she hadn't been so concerned with her looks.

hehehe Guess that's what I get for listening for content, rather than looking for subjective reasons to criticize.

With regard to intelligence of the jury, I found the one juror's statement using poor grammar; think that he said "the one who done it", to be somewhat offputting, but was glad that it wasn't attributed to the schoolteacher. Personally, I don't see how the jury had time to digest the evidence and testimony. The foreperson's statements about God came off as self-aggrandizement in my book.

[christina]

for hawgustusgloop(spelling?) also....
Do jeh. That means thank you in Chinese. Pronounced "daw-dyeh".

Prego............

[lorettalockhorn]

Frost's testimony on the stand was that they fingerprinted only two suspects-York and Jones, and only obtained dna from 1-Jones. He had RW and Janice Jones printed since they were at the scene and wanted to rule theirs out.

Isn't that amazing that the ME never fingerprinted Nona during ther autopsy!

The Courier should have sent you to interview Gibbons, you could have called him on that.

Yeah, a real shocker about the prints. Kremers could have fingerprinted Nona too along with taking her body temp. But he screwed up.

[christina]

hmmm I watched different channels from day to day and I swear, I don't remember anyone who was "skanky looking"; makes you wonder what her appearance would have been if she hadn't been so concerned with her looks.

hehehe Guess that's what I get for listening for content, rather than looking for subjective reasons to criticize.

With regard to intelligence of the jury, I found the one juror's statement using poor grammar; think that he said "the one who done it", to be somewhat offputting, but was glad that it wasn't attributed to the schoolteacher. Personally, I don't see how the jury had time to digest the evidence and testimony. The foreperson's statements about God came off as self-aggrandizement in my book.

They had been listening to the evidence and testimonies for 6 and a half days. Most took notes. Are you categorizing their digesting time as the 8 hours they deliberated?

[hawgustusgloop]

I'm sorry.... you have a higherpower of any kind? What is wrong with praying to your higherpower that you make the correct decision? I mean either way, you are dealing with people's lives. I certainly wouldn't want to put an innocent man away as much as I wouldn't want to let an guilty man go. It's a tough decision to be responsible for, and if God can help me on that, then so what? Of course, your book is not everyone's book is it?

Incorrect use of English does not inflect on one's intelligence or common sense, nor does it neccessarily represent their education. If you have more education than someone else, like you seem to have, it doesn't neccessarily mean you are any more qualified than anyone else to make this decision.

I watched several channels, too. That was just my opinion of her, but maybe you just had to see her in person. Who knows?

Wow! I didn't know that the lucky residents of Ozark could get all those Little Rock stations, too. That is an impressive cable company. All we ever got in Fort Smith were the Fort Smith/NWA stations.

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm sorry.... you have a higherpower of any kind? What is wrong with praying to your higherpower that you make the correct decision? I mean either way, you are dealing with people's lives. I certainly wouldn't want to put an innocent man away as much as I wouldn't want to let an guilty man go. It's a tough decision to be responsible for, and if God can help me on that, then so what? Of course, your book is not everyone's book is it?

Incorrect use of English does not inflect on one's intelligence or common sense, nor does it neccessarily represent their education. If you have more education than someone else, like you seem to have, it doesn't neccessarily mean you are any more qualified than anyone else to make this decision.

I watched several channels, too. That was just my opinion of her, but maybe you just had to see her in person. Who knows?

Yes, I do have a higher power and honestly believe that everyone does, whether they recognize it or not. I sure as heck wouldn't go on TV talking about it; would have stuck to the facts. There was a quote that the jury disregarded everything that the prosecution presented as well as opinions. The expert testimony was nothing but opinions, so I'll assume that's why they couldn't fathom the bloody print.

I doubt seriously that I'm the first or last person to have taken note of the usage of poor grammar by the juror and made a judgement about it; it was mentioned more than once by members of my klatch.

Also, you don't think a week and a half of testimony and eight and a half or nine hours of deliberation was fitting? Hmmm.... Just curious, do you think 6 or 7 days of investigation was enough? Especially considering the investigation that was done?

Personally, I thought the verdict would have been returned much sooner....

No, I don't think that eight and a half hours is enough time to consider such a dire subject; especially considering the jury spent some of that time investigating Jared? who wasn't on trial.

[hawgustusgloop]

Also, you don't think a week and a half of testimony and eight and a half or nine hours of deliberation was fitting? Hmmm.... Just curious, do you think 6 or 7 days of investigation was enough? Especially considering the investigation that was done?

Personally, I thought the verdict would have been returned much sooner....

Why did you think the verdict would have been returned much sooner? IMO it was pretty quick for a murder trial. Even the forewoman on the jury said there was a lot of evidence they had to go through.

[optimumprimal78]

Wasn't there mention of some guy in a study group who was harrassing Nona? I would imagine that wouldn't have been Trey since Nona texted him a lot. What about the mysterious Jared? He seemed to capture the attention of the jury. Maybe Jared is the study group guy?

For someone that captured a lot of attention, there sure wasn't that much focus on him. They would rather focus on one person even in trial than suggest multiple people.

[hawgustusgloop]

Hey, if you don't believe me, find another Ozarkian and ask them what channels they get......

Who said I didn't believe you?

[hawgustusgloop]

Hey, if you don't believe me, find another Ozarkian and ask them what channels they get...... I am not here to defend mundane facts. Whether I have Little Rock or Fort Smith channels is neither here nor there. For your information, I have both. Ain't I lucky?

I absolutely believe that you get both Little Rock and Fort Smith stations.

[hawgustusgloop]

>snip<

I believe that quote came from a poster on here who seems close to the case. That makes it iopinion not fact, unless that person was in the jury room during deliberations. If that were the case THEN I might be persuaded to perceive it as fact.



I believe that quote came from this article and is attributed to the forewoman of the jury:

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=49361

[lorettalockhorn]

I believe that quote came from a poster on here who seems close to the case. That makes it iopinion not fact, unless that person was in the jury room during deliberations. If that were the case THEN I might be persuaded to perceive it as fact.

I don't mind referring to God, nor do I mind letting him guide me. I am not saying that that would be my only basis for my opinion. I doubt it was hers either. Are you embarrassed of your relationship with your higher power?

I just don't happen to think six or seven days is long enough for a thourough investigation either, which I think had a lot to do with "ONLY" eight and a half hours of deliberation.

No, Jared wasn't on trial, but I think it is viable that the jury was able to see other options other than Kevin Jones. If they spent time, discussing other suspects, it just tells me their mind was made up early on in their deliberations.

By the way, Kevin Jones is NO LONGER on trial either. I guess you have missed that?

If you are not the first or only person to notice the language fauxpas, why be so defensive? Why defend it?

No, the quote was disseminated by the media and there were links provided. Most of us do post our opinions. And do our best to back up facts with links or quotes.

I'm not embarrassed of my relationship with God, nor do I feel compelled to advertise it.

I'm just going to assume that the investigation went on right up until the minute that KJ turned himself in. The ME's report wasn't available to the State until mid-March, if memory serves.

The jury had to be cautioned by the judge that they couldn't consider information not presented at trial. Deliberation seems like a heckuva time to be playing armchair detective, when there are more important matters at hand.

Why would you think that I missed that KJ isn't on trial? Huh? I don't even understand that question. KJ is in the public eye and likely will be for some time to come; there are people who think that he is guilty and will continue to talk about this case for some time to come. That should be a given.

I'm not being defensive about the poor grammar, just the opposite in fact.

[hawgustusgloop]

Then from the tone you are implying, YES, I AM from Ozark.

??????????????????????????????

You responded to a post I made as if I had accused you of lying, which I did not. I responded to that post by saying that I believed you. I never said you were not from Ozark or even questioned that. This is just confusing.

I am not understanding what tone you think I am implying. Wouldn't it be for me to say what I am implying?

[hawgustusgloop]

I guess I missed this quote: "There was a quote that the jury disregarded everything that the prosecution presented as well as opinions. The expert testimony was nothing but opinions, so I'll assume that's why they couldn't fathom the bloody print." in this link you provided.

What I did see was this: "Willhite says the jurors constantly held themselves in check during the trial, focusing only on facts and removing opinions and personal feelings" I somehow doubt that means the testimonies of the experts. I think that means exactly what it states-- opinions being the public, families, this forum or whatever and personal feelings, which I think is self explanatory, but that is just me.


And I saw this: “You really felt like they were both passionate about what they were doing. You can't imagine the amount of evidence we had to go through.”

I also saw this: "Everything the prosecution introduced, there was reasonable doubt,” she said. “And you knew there were things that weren't there; there were so many holes.”

But NOWHERE did I see that the jury disregarded everything the jury introduced.

But I guess that is all just semantics, and depends on what you want to see. Some only see what they want to see.

I can't speak for lorettalockhorn, but I assumed, when she mentioned the quote from the article, that she was paraphrasing because she did not use any quotation marks. That may exlplain why the wording was different in the article than in her post.

[lorettalockhorn]

I guess I missed this quote: "There was a quote that the jury disregarded everything that the prosecution presented as well as opinions. The expert testimony was nothing but opinions, so I'll assume that's why they couldn't fathom the bloody print." in this link you provided.

What I did see was this: "Willhite says the jurors constantly held themselves in check during the trial, focusing only on facts and removing opinions and personal feelings" I somehow doubt that means the testimonies of the experts. I think that means exactly what it states-- opinions being the public, families, this forum or whatever and personal feelings, which I think is self explanatory, but that is just me.


And I saw this: “You really felt like they were both passionate about what they were doing. You can't imagine the amount of evidence we had to go through.”

I also saw this: "Everything the prosecution introduced, there was reasonable doubt,” she said. “And you knew there were things that weren't there; there were so many holes.”

But NOWHERE did I see that the jury disregarded everything the jury introduced.

But I guess that is all just semantics, and depends on what you want to see. Some only see what they want to see.

Actually the comment was in regard to eveything that the prosecution presented. Don't know if it was in that link or not. You seemed to have done quite a bit of reading, although it may not have been in the Ozark paper. There was also a quote that the jury disregarded opinions.

BTW, I've always wanted one of those "Internet Tone-ometer" thingies that would clue me in to a person's innermost intention when posting. :beer:

[lorettalockhorn]

I can't speak for lorettalockhorn, but I assumed, when she mentioned the quote from the article, that she was paraphrasing because she did not use any quotation marks. That may exlplain why the wording was different in the article than in her post.


You are so right, thanks. I endeavor to utilize my education to the fullest and use quotations to indicate direct quotes. I do from time to time use them to indicate my own method of categorization.

My issue with Willhite was her use of the word "everything". Now that I think about it; if the jury discounted everything that the prosecution presented as well as all opinions, I guess the deliberation might not have been exceedingly short.

[lorettalockhorn]

ahh... seems you missed. All that education just for postin on 2 or 3 forums, crossword puzzles,cooking, AND watching tv? Wow, impressive.


Huh? How would you begin to know how I use my education?

You seem awfully familiar. Have we met before?

[lorettalockhorn]

My bad. Should say "But NOWHERE did I see that the jury disregarded everything the prosecutor introduced.



Seems somebody is pretty insecure of themselves....

Everyone that I've seen either involved in the case or posting about it here, seems to be pretty secure about themselves. Unless you consider the people who constantly flip flop about whether DD, York, Jared? may have committed the crime.

[lorettalockhorn]

No we have not met, but I have been reading. You posted the above yourself, and you are always trying to throw the weight of your education around.

Like I said.....

Yes, I sure did post that. Not sure what that has to do with my education or lack thereof. Sorry that my posts have managed to offend you. The only reason that I would cite my education or career fields would be to denote what particular personal experience I have had with regard to the topic at hand.

Most people have a reason for viewing things that they do; personal experience being a very good reason, IMO.

[lorettalockhorn]

Oh? Haven't seen that at all on here..... Pray tell, who might that be?

I guess 165 pages is a lot to catch up on in two days. But as you read, especially around the beginning of the trial, you will find that there are posters who have vacillated about whether or not DD, York or Jared? might be the true murderer. As well as Jeremy Martin.

[optimumprimal78]

Hmmm I guess some people are running running out of "S" names. I need to start keeping up again.

[jonikay]

mmmhmmm . . .
So many personalities, so little time . . .

[christina]

Why did you think the verdict would have been returned much sooner? IMO it was pretty quick for a murder trial. Even the forewoman on the jury said there was a lot of evidence they had to go through.

Not guilty verdicts historically come back within a short time, 1-3 hours. The fact that this jury spent longer tells me they wanted to make sure they got it right.

[lorettalockhorn]

Yesterday's Courier article re: Gibbons:

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15536

Interesting, especially in that Christina reiterated today that Frost testified that fingerprints were taken from two people (and/or suspects) and Gibbons indicates that they were taken from five.

[lorettalockhorn]

Not guilty verdicts historically come back within a short time, 1-3 hours. The fact that this jury spent longer tells me they wanted to make sure they got it right.


I was wondering if anyone had a source on this type of thing; don't remember ever studying it. Couldn't a quick verdict also be indicative of a restless jury? It seems somewhat subjective; what is quick.

[sololobo]

Hello and welcome aboard, sweetpresley and I guess good-bye. That was a quick in and out.

[nobody]

It seems - the RPD desperately needs to upgrade their audio recording devices in their interegation rooms. Sounds to me like a good fundraiser project - if it is not already state funded approved for upgrade.

[TJEddie]

Yesterday's Courier article re: Gibbons:

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15536

Interesting, especially in that Christina reiterated today that Frost testified that fingerprints were taken from two people (and/or suspects) and Gibbons indicates that they were taken from five.

I find it interesting, too, Loretta. It's been reported and testified to extensively that only four people were fingerprinted in this case: Jones, York, JJones, and Whiteside. (And, as indicated in christina's previous post, only 2 of those people were presumably suspects....the other two were bystanders in the discovery.) Gibbons' reference to the fingerprints of "Jones and 4 other individuals" is completely out of step with what others have testified to.

FWIW, I don't make too much of it.....my guess is that Gibbons had the number 4 in his mind and possibly misspoke. Of course I could be wrong.

[partyharty]

I have been reading the article posted at http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15536 and there were a few things that stuck out to me.


Gibbons is quoted as saying:
-----------------
“I’m going to keep the file open for a short period of time,” Gibbons said Thursday, adding he intended to review it personally.

I would kind of hope that he has done this prior to the trial (although I am assuming/hoping that I am reading to much into that statement).
-----------------
"Physical evidence gathered during the investigation will be retained indefinitely, Gibbons said."

So are they now going to keep the phone indefinitely? Do they have a policy regarding evidence or not?
-----------------

Gibbons also addressed the issue of DNA and fingerprint testing, telling The Courier “everything that was feasible to be done, that needed to be done, was done” with respect to forensic testing.

Unfortunatly in my opinion this was not the case. It just seemed that there were way too many things missed in the investigation.

-----------------

Gibbons described the condom wrapper found at the scene, on which defense experts claimed to have found male DNA exclusive of Jones, as a “trigger” rather than a piece of evidence left by Dirksmeyer’s killer, citing that conclusion as one reason why further DNA testing was unnecessary.

To me this goes with the above. If everythign that was necessary would have been done then this would have been checked. It does appear to me that by the time this decision was made (and I have no clue when this decision was made), the prosecution had already decided on how it happened (and probably the person that did it). Once again I may be reading too much into the statements however this statement goes to show that they had at least a scenario in mind.

------------------

I dunno, I really agree with the article and I hope that in the end there will be "justice for nona", unfortunatly as I have stated in the past, I felt the investigation was sloppy and this possibly allowed the guilty to go free.

[lorettalockhorn]

I find it interesting, too, Loretta. It's been reported and testified to extensively that only four people were fingerprinted in this case: Jones, York, JJones, and Whiteside. (And, as indicated in christina's previous post, only 2 of those people were presumably suspects....the other two were bystanders in the discovery.) Gibbons' reference to the fingerprints of "Jones and 4 other individuals" is completely out of step with what others have testified to.

FWIW, I don't make too much of it.....my guess is that Gibbons had the number 4 in his mind and possibly misspoke. Of course I could be wrong.

Shame on MKB for not clarifying the issue (the fingerprints). Shouldn't she have picked up on the discrepancy between what was reported here and what Gibbons said?

And also for not digging a little deeper with regard to the denial of the FOIA for the police incident report of the alleged rape; does Gibbons consider them to be connected? Or is the file being held for other reasons?

[lorettalockhorn]

Gibbons described the condom wrapper found at the scene, on which defense experts claimed to have found male DNA exclusive of Jones, as a “trigger” rather than a piece of evidence left by Dirksmeyer’s killer, citing that conclusion as one reason why further DNA testing was unnecessary.

To me this goes with the above. If everythign that was necessary would have been done then this would have been checked. It does appear to me that by the time this decision was made (and I have no clue when this decision was made), the prosecution had already decided on how it happened (and probably the person that did it). Once again I may be reading too much into the statements however this statement goes to show that they had at least a scenario in mind.

------------------

I dunno, I really agree with the article and I hope that in the end there will be "justice for nona", unfortunatly as I have stated in the past, I felt the investigation was sloppy and this possibly allowed the guilty to go free.

The first thing that comes to my mind regarding this statement, is that Gibbons is reiterating that KJ was the murderer and that he had admitted to LE that he and Nona didn't use condoms. Lame, in my mind. For all I know, they did use condoms. It is just unforgiveable to me, that LE in this day and age would not avail themselves to any scientific method that could be obtained.

ITA about the retention of the physical evidence. Anyone who's read a crime book, watched a crime show, or had anything to do with investigating is aware of the need for validity of chain of custody.

[upallnight]

Well, I thought K.Jo's brother used to work for the Dover Times.
Correct, he did, then went to channel 11, then channel 5.

[oxfordwebster]

I think the explanation of turning the victim's body over caused fresh, uncoagulated blood to escape from the wound combats your theory very well. In my opinion, this would very likely explain how the defendant transferred his palm print to the light bulb at the time of discovery of the body.Yeah, yeah, sweetpresley is banned, whatever. This can't stand without comment.

This explanation doesn't explain how fresh blood escaping from Nona's body after being turned over would avoid all contact/mixing with already coagulated blood, both on and around the wounds and within her body.

Also, hello everyone! :biggrin:

[christina]

You are so right, thanks. I endeavor to utilize my education to the fullest and use quotations to indicate direct quotes. I do from time to time use them to indicate my own method of categorization.

My issue with Willhite was her use of the word "everything". Now that I think about it; if the jury discounted everything that the prosecution presented as well as all opinions, I guess the deliberation might not have been exceedingly short.

While I understand this might be hyberbole to some, it rings true to me. I had my list when I went into the courtroom. Most was compiled from the reports in the Courier from the murder on up. Almost my entire list was adressed within the first two days. I was surprised at the lack of evidence they had against Jones. I was also very disappointed in how the PCS misrepresented many things. I agree with the jurors other statement about the amount of holes in their case. You could drive a Chevy through them!

[christina]

Hello and welcome aboard, sweetpresley and I guess good-bye. That was a quick in and out.

Dang- I miss most of one day and someone comes and goes!!!!

[oxfordwebster]

While I understand this might be hyberbole to some, it rings true to me. I had my list when I went into the courtroom. Most was compiled from the reports in the Courier from the murder on up. Almost my entire list was adressed within the first two days. I was surprised at the lack of evidence they had against Jones. I was also very disappointed in how the PCS misrepresented many things. I agree with the jurors other statement about the amount of holes in their case. You could drive a Chevy through them!Christina,

Since you were there every day, you might be able to answer this. Did the prosecution ever talk about the FBI profilers in front of the jury, or suggest that they had FBI profilers that were to be called as witnessed (again, in front of a jury)?

[christina]

It seems - the RPD desperately needs to upgrade their audio recording devices in their interegation rooms. Sounds to me like a good fundraiser project - if it is not already state funded approved for upgrade.

You know the interrogation room thing still bothers me a bit. I do not like the idea that me or a member of my family could be locked in a room at the RPD without our knowledge, or have a voluntary interview/discussion taped without our knowledge.... Maybe I need to put a call in to the ACLU?

[nobody]

Read this - interestingly similar.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/not_guilty/bonnie_garland_herri/1.html

[sololobo]

Dang- I miss most of one day and someone comes and goes!!!!

Three hours and 39 minutes. That must be a record.

[christina]

Christina,

Since you were there every day, you might be able to answer this. Did the prosecution ever talk about the FBI profilers in front of the jury, or suggest that they had FBI profilers that were to be called as witnessed (again, in front of a jury)?

Not to my knowledge

[christina]

Three hours and 39 minutes. That must be a record.

I am lost on just what gets a person banned from a blog/board!?

[oxfordwebster]

You know the interrogation room thing still bothers me a bit. I do not like the idea that me or a member of my family could be locked in a room at the RPD without our knowledge, or have a voluntary interview/discussion taped without our knowledge.... Maybe I need to put a call in to the ACLU?Are you serious? My guess is that those doors probably lock automatically, and it's not like Kevin has free reign over where he can go in a police station. He was there voluntarily and if there was any sign that the locked door was an issue, the lawyers would have been beating their chest about it from day one.

[christina]

Everyone that I've seen either involved in the case or posting about it here, seems to be pretty secure about themselves. Unless you consider the people who constantly flip flop about whether DD, York, Jared? may have committed the crime.

I resemble that remark and I am pretty secure about myself! Seriously- what became obvious during the trial is many more men had access to Nona and her apartment than Jones-leaving the way open for serious reasonable doubt.

[oxfordwebster]

I resemble that remark and I am pretty secure about myself! Seriously- what became obvious during the trial is many more men had access to Nona and her apartment than Jones-leaving the way open for serious reasonable doubt.That's like saying that everybody that was ever within five feet of her is a reasonable suspect, and you know that doesn't work.

[sololobo]

I am lost on just what gets a person banned from a blog/board!?

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Children are allowed on this site so don't post anything you wouldn't want a child to read:)

[christina]

Are you serious? My guess is that those doors probably lock automatically, and it's not like Kevin has free reign over where he can go in a police station. He was there voluntarily and if there was any sign that the locked door was an issue, the lawyers would have been beating their chest about it from day one.

Yes, I am serious. It concerns me that a local police force could possibly do this to me or a member of my family- Especially when we are there just to talk, not under arrest. This was the case with Jones.
I have attached a link from the ACLU site that has several articles about locking someone in an interview room.

http://www.aclu.org/search/search_wrap.html?account=436ac9516921&q=locked+interview+room

[christina]

That's like saying that everybody that was ever within five feet of her is a reasonable suspect, and you know that doesn't work.

Thank you for giving such a clear example of hyperbole.

[christina]

COPPA Policy

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Children are allowed on this site so don't post anything you wouldn't want a child to read:)

Thanks. Is that your smiley face Solo or theirs?

[oxfordwebster]

Yes, I am serious. It concerns me that a local police force could possibly do this to me or a member of my family- Especially when we are there just to talk, not under arrest. This was the case with Jones.
I have attached a link from the ACLU site that has several articles about locking someone in an interview room.

http://www.aclu.org/search/search_wrap.html?account=436ac9516921&q=locked+interview+roomPoint me out a specific article, because a number of those don't have anything to do with the specific situation you're concerned about.

KJ was being interviewed during a murder investigation; he wasn't going to the police station to have coffee and donuts with some buddies. Seriously, don't you think that his lawyers would have made sure everybody knew about this if it was actually an issue? Of course they would. It would have been one of the first things they ever did.

Like I said, point me out some specific ACLU articles on it and I'll read up on it. I fully support the ACLU and what they stand for, but I think you're reaching here.

[sololobo]

Thanks. Is that your smiley face Solo or theirs?

Mine, a shortened version of any COPPA policy:) Federally mandated COPPA policies must be obeyed by web sites for the protection of young users.

[hawgustusgloop]

Yes, I am serious. It concerns me that a local police force could possibly do this to me or a member of my family- Especially when we are there just to talk, not under arrest. This was the case with Jones.
I have attached a link from the ACLU site that has several articles about locking someone in an interview room.

http://www.aclu.org/search/search_wrap.html?account=436ac9516921&q=locked+interview+room

That is why, among other reasons, IMO if you are going to be interrogated by the police on their turf, you should have an attorney with you.

[hawgustusgloop]

I am lost on just what gets a person banned from a blog/board!?

If you go back and read the posts by people whose nics say "banned" underneath them, you will probably start to get a pretty good idea.

[christina]

That is why, among other reasons, IMO if you are going to be interrogated by the police on their turf, you should have an attorney with you.

Touche'....

[lorettalockhorn]

Are you serious? My guess is that those doors probably lock automatically, and it's not like Kevin has free reign over where he can go in a police station. He was there voluntarily and if there was any sign that the locked door was an issue, the lawyers would have been beating their chest about it from day one.

I agree. If KJ had been taken advantage of in some way or had not been allowed to call an attorney or leave of his own volition, that would have been a huge problem.

[lorettalockhorn]

Yeah, yeah, sweetpresley is banned, whatever. This can't stand without comment.

This explanation doesn't explain how fresh blood escaping from Nona's body after being turned over would avoid all contact/mixing with already coagulated blood, both on and around the wounds and within her body.

Also, hello everyone! :biggrin:

So glad that you didn't go GCB on us!! :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

That's like saying that everybody that was ever within five feet of her is a reasonable suspect, and you know that doesn't work.

You know, I hope that the jury didn't think that because Nona was enrolled in a coed school and involved in coed study groups, choir, etc., that that means that the entire male population had access to her. It's just not obvious to me; but then again, I wasn't in the courtroom.

(Hope that wasn't too hyperbolic.)

[partyharty]

I agree. If KJ had been taken advantage of in some way or had not been allowed to call an attorney or leave of his own volition, that would have been a huge problem.

And therein is the kicker. KJ could have terminated the interview at any time (or asked for counsel to be present). He was not under arrest at the time (or detained). He could have said "thats it" and they would have had to let him go (or arrest him). Since he didnt this discussion is purely academic.

A lot of what is done is by perception. A lot of times people are questioned without being arrested and the answers they give can (and usually are) used against them. The locked door was probably as ox said, to keep him from wondering out before they were done with him however it would have had a pretty good psychological effect on him as well (many do not know that they can cancel the interview and leave (provided they are not under arrest) at any time for any reason).

Just my .02

[lorettalockhorn]

And therein is the kicker. KJ could have terminated the interview at any time (or asked for counsel to be present). He was not under arrest at the time (or detained). He could have said "thats it" and they would have had to let him go (or arrest him). Since he didnt this discussion is purely academic.

A lot of what is done is by perception. A lot of times people are questioned without being arrested and the answers they give can (and usually are) used against them. The locked door was probably as ox said, to keep him from wondering out before they were done with him however it would have had a pretty good psychological effect on him as well (many do not know that they can cancel the interview and leave (provided they are not under arrest) at any time for any reason).

Just my .02

Exactly. I don't get how he could watch so much CSI or L&O or whatever without knowing that he could leave at any time and that he probably should have an attorney. I believe that he was mirandized, at that time it would have been clearly stated that anything that he said could be used against him in a court of law. Maybe he didn't receive Miranda until later. That would be something that the attorneys could kick about, or someone could call the ACLU about.

[partyharty]

That's like saying that everybody that was ever within five feet of her is a reasonable suspect, and you know that doesn't work.

There is a big difference between the 2 examples here.

If everyone within 5 feet of her had access to her apartment then yes I would consider them a "reasonable" suspect. Obviously this was not the case.

However anyone who has access to the apartment (that she was murdered in) should be classified as a suspect UNTIL there is reason to believe otherwise.

Do you think that RPD did this?

[oxfordwebster]

However anyone who has access to the apartment (that she was murdered in) should be classified as a suspect UNTIL there is reason to believe otherwise.

Do you think that RPD did this?No, because it's pretty stupid to consider someone a suspect based on that alone.

[partyharty]

No, because it's pretty stupid to consider someone a suspect based on that alone.

actually the word should be thorough, as in it's pretty thorough to consider someone a suspect because they had access to the place she was murdered in.

Thorough:
1 : carried through to completion : EXHAUSTIVE <a thorough search>
2 a : marked by full detail <a thorough description> b : careful about detail :


If I ever had to deal with an investigation (provided I am not the defendant :D ) I would rather the investigation be thorough then stupid.
::lol:

[partyharty]

I guess I do need to explain some cavets to the above theory,

1. Within a reasonable time frame (all former tenents to that apt should not be
considered suspects
2. Once again they should be considered suspects until they can be crossed off
the list. For most this would take very little investigative work to do and it
could payoff.
3. This is not the only way to acertain suspects (nor should it be).

[partyharty]

Exactly. I don't get how he could watch so much CSI or L&O or whatever without knowing that he could leave at any time and that he probably should have an attorney. I believe that he was mirandized, at that time it would have been clearly stated that anything that he said could be used against him in a court of law. Maybe he didn't receive Miranda until later. That would be something that the attorneys could kick about, or someone could call the ACLU about.

Not to get off topic (it really does pertain to this): (and before anyone ask's at this time; I am not a lawyer or associated with the Criminal Justice system in any way).

I have taken several law courses throughout the past couple of years and the application of miranda is not quite as you see it on tv. I have been surprised by how it is applied.

In 2000, Chief Justice William Rehnquist wrote that Miranda warnings had "become embedded in routine police practice to the point where the warnings have become part of our national culture" (Dickerson v. United States, 530 U.S. 428). However, police are only required to warn an individual whom they intend to subject to custodial interrogation at the police station, in a police vehicle or when detained. Arrests can occur without questioning and without the Miranda warning — although if the police do change their mind and decide to interrogate the suspect, the warning must then be given.

This is from a wikipedia article on the subject however there are some other interesting cases that I have gone through which limits the scope of miranda (I can find the cases but it will take a bit of time to go through notes and whatnot).

Just thought I would add this in for those who were interested.

[lorettalockhorn]

Not to get off topic (it really does pertain to this): (and before anyone ask's at this time; I am not a lawyer or associated with the Criminal Justice system in any way).

I have taken several law courses throughout the past couple of years and the application of miranda is not quite as you see it on tv. I have been surprised by how it is applied.

In 2000, Chief Justice William Rehnquist wrote that Miranda warnings had "become embedded in routine police practice to the point where the warnings have become part of our national culture" (Dickerson v. United States, 530 U.S. 428). However, police are only required to warn an individual whom they intend to subject to custodial interrogation at the police station, in a police vehicle or when detained. Arrests can occur without questioning and without the Miranda warning — although if the police do change their mind and decide to interrogate the suspect, the warning must then be given.

This is from a wikipedia article on the subject however there are some other interesting cases that I have gone through which limits the scope of miranda (I can find the cases but it will take a bit of time to go through notes and whatnot).

Just thought I would add this in for those who were interested.

I usually scroll right past any Wikipedia links, rarely read there.

According to a post back on P40 or so that dealt with the trial exhibits, KJ was read his rights on the 15th but didn't actually sign the form until the 21st. (Interestingly, York signed his statement on the 16th, maybe because he had an attorney present to insist that he be read them.)

[oxfordwebster]

actually the word should be thorough, as in it's pretty thorough to consider someone a suspect because they had access to the place she was murdered in.That's a bit over-reaching, abusive, and broad if you consider everybody a suspect without any evidence. I guess you need to consider Nona's mother a suspect too since she had a key.