Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[oxfordwebster]

He realizes the candleholder and knife are not doing enough damage. Then the attacker gets up, unplugs the lamp, takes the shade off, unscrews the bulb and hits her a couple more times with the base - with the impact bruising her face also.I don't think anybody has mentioned a candle holder being a weapon.

On top of that, both sides agreed that the attack was a fast one. I don't know why someone using household objects as weapons would care about dismantling the lamp like you are talking about, especially when that's not the end that hit her.

[nobody]

I don't think anybody has mentioned a candle holder being a weapon.

On top of that, both sides agreed that the attack was a fast one. I don't know why someone using household objects as weapons would care about dismantling the lamp like you are talking about, especially when that's not the end that hit her.

They did mention that a candle holder had blood on it - it was the only item that struck me as odd.

[TJEddie]

Based on my understanding of the crime scene, Nona's body was pictured on its back about 1-2 feet from the lightbulb. There was a pool of blood between her body and the lightbulb, indicating that before Kevin turned her over, her body was actually face down right next to the lightbulb. (1-2 ft. is consistent with the width of a normal body, depending on where you're measuring.) As Kevin grabbed and fumbled to turn Nona's body over, I can see how he might have inadvertently touched or even grabbed the lightbulb. It was dark, he was in a panic, and he was focussed on getting her turned over so he could see her face.....touching the lightbulb might not have even registered in his brain.

Did Kevin ever describe how he went about turning the body over? Where he grabbed the body, etc.?

[nobody]

Court wrapped at 430. It was a little more than half full of people. Surprisingly. Regular pic of Nona, pic of condom wrapper, aerial pic of russellville, pics of inglewood apts from diff angles, pic of nona's car, crime scene pics. The lamp was not very far from Nona's body, but based on Ryan's account, the body was face down when they opened the door and KJ flipped her over to her back. Lividity (blood pooling) and rigor mortis show this. Also, the first EMT on the scene had to make KJ get off of Nona, as he was "straddling her" and tried to pick her up at her shoulders.

Reference: Page 97, Post #3858

[TJEddie]

Court wrapped at 430. It was a little more than half full of people. Surprisingly. Regular pic of Nona, pic of condom wrapper, aerial pic of russellville, pics of inglewood apts from diff angles, pic of nona's car, crime scene pics. The lamp was not very far from Nona's body, but based on Ryan's account, the body was face down when they opened the door and KJ flipped her over to her back. Lividity (blood pooling) and rigor mortis show this. Also, the first EMT on the scene had to make KJ get off of Nona, as he was "straddling her" and tried to pick her up at her shoulders.

Reference: Page 97, Post #3858

Thanks, nobody. Since rigor mortis was a factor, I'm wondering if a 2 point hold was necessary to turn the body....maybe kneeling beside her, grabbing a shoulder and a hip and rolling her toward himself? I don't know where the lightbulb was in relation to the height of Nona's body.....shoulder, waist, hip/thigh level? Anyway, if he reached across her body to roll her toward him, I can see how he might have touched the bulb.

[TJEddie]

At 3:15 today Chief Bacon was brought to the stand and the first piece of evidence(other than Kevin being at Nona's apartment because he admitted to finding her) tying Jones to the scene was introduced- the bloody palm print on the light bulb. I thought to myself, this jury has sat here for an entire week and they are just now seeing this. Remember- they supposedly have only seen/heard what has been presented in court to them.
Bacon was a solid and believable witness. The key moment was when the prosecutor asked him to get up and show how the print was placed on the bulb- what position in relation to the way the lamp/lightbulb is laying next to the body, was the print placed on it. Sorry if this gets confusing but bear with me while I try to explain. We are looking at the TV with a crime scene photo of Nona's body and surroundings while the prosecutor and Bacon are standing in front of the jury acting it out. She is face up, perpendicular to her left is the part of the lamp with the bulb on it. The bulb is closest to her body about 1-2 feet away. Between her body and the bulb is blood on the carpet. There is no visible blood on the carpet on her right side. Bacon explains that the palm print is on the side of the bulb towards her feet. (if facing the bulb it is on your right) The palm is up with the fingers down.
The prosecutor asks Bacon if he could place his palm print on it while straddling the body. Bacon imitates that and reaches out as far away from his body as he can with his right arm. It is apparant it is possible. One of the jurors shrugged their shoulders, looked at another juror and mouthed "so what".
My thought was that Whiteside testified she was face down and Kevin turned her over. Kevin in his interview says he isnt sure but thinks she was face up, then another time says something like she was either face up or down but all he remembered was that he grabbed her and tried mouth to mouth and held her to keep her warm.
In the picture you see the blood on the carpet on her left side closest to the lightbulb. If she were face down, that is most likely where she would have been before being turned over. All have testified it was dark(the EMT testified it was dark and she had to turn the light on). It is not just plausible, but probable he touched the lightbulb when he got to her body and is telling the truth when he said he didn't think he touched the light.

nobody, this is a post of christina's from page 111. This is where I got my description of the scene. As you can see, Bacon's demonstration implies that Kevin would have made the print while straddling Nona's face-up body. I'm thinking (and apparently christina was, too) that it could have happened before that. Anyway, thought you might want it for your collection (which is invaluable, btw!)

[nobody]

1. What do you want everybody to know that you have not been able to say before due to the gag order?
Answer: "For the first time, I can proclaim publicly that Kevin is not guilty, he is innocent. He was unjustly charged. I believe that within 24 hours members of the Russellville Police Department had already determined who they thought the guilty person was. Kevin's name was written as the suspect on the initial autopsy report that was sent to the crime lab after Nona's death. He was being treated like a criminal that first night, not like someone who had come upon the death of a loved one. They interrogated Kevin cruelly for several hours the night of Nona's visitation and told him he would be arrested within a few days unless a miracle occurred. He maintained his innocence no matter how they twisted his words trying to get him to confess. That was six days after her death. They had a press conference all arranged the next morning, one hour before Nona's funeral. Chief Bacon later said, "As leads come in we continue to dispel, disprove, and eliminate them." Strongly negative words for people with an open mind seeking the truth."

2. How did you cope with such stress?
Answer: "The knowledge of the truth of Kevin's innocence. I stood on that truth. My faith in him never wavered. My faith in God also has grown so much deeper. Lots of prayer and support of a strong family and many loving friends; even people who didn't know us sustained us. Anyone who goes through the death of a loved one has experienced this special grace and peace. The public accusations, charges, and gossip would have been impossible to face without faith. That faith transferred to the calmly assuring team of lawyers who saw the truth and the injustice and pledged their allegiance of support to us. I praise God for all those who believed in Kevin, in us, and prayed for the truth to be revealed. That's all I ever asked for."

3. Would you have done anything differently?
Answer: "Yes, I would have gotten an attorney immediately. I would recommend that every family develop a relationship with a trusted lawyer to advise them not only on legal matters, but to protect their legal rights, which are so easily violated, especially when you are in the midst of a tragedy. I have utterly lost my trust in law enforcement as a protective force. I only trust a few individuals now. The days following Nona's death, Kevin voluntarily gave information to the police department. He was only trying to help. Words he said were turned and twisted and made to fit their preconceived ideas, then later used to fabricate a bizarre tale of subterfuge. Kenny Johnson was right when he labeled this the most dangerous investigation he had ever seen."

4. What are your feelings towards Nona?
Answer: "We loved Nona and visit her resting place. It is a place of refuge and sweet release for me. I made a promise to Kevin and to her that I will keep searching for her killer. As of yet, no agency has contacted us to accept our challenge to continue the search. They may be legally bound not to come forward yet, but I hope they will. This is not a cold case yet. There were so many details that were left undone. There is information that should lead experienced, thorough investigators to the truth."

5. What advice would you give to others who might be in the same situation one day?
Answer: "Pray and hire good attorneys. I know three wonderful ones that I will be glad to recommend."

6. What are Kevin's future plans?
Answer: "We are leaving tomorrow for a short trip just to get away. Then he will be continuing his education and now plans to change his major from engineering to psychology and law."

7. So how does one celebrate a not-guilty verdict?
Answer: "Kevin's attorneys have become family to us. Michael Robbins picked him up every day for the trial and then brought him home. Thursday afternoon, after the trial was over, I could not get ahold of either Kevin or Michael. I went driving towards the cabin that the Robbins were staying in and found them after they had stopped on the way home and had a great time enjoying the simple pleasure of jumping off the low water bridge."


Reference: http://www.atkinschronicle.com/dt1.htm

[nobody]

I found the best articles within the Dover Times and Atkins Chronicle. They were built on facts - unlike the Courier which mostly used allegations as a basis (i.e. alleged rapes). The Courier has now deleted most of its' writing on the case (reason unknown). This case is not closed yet - we need to believe Nona will receive her long overdue justice.

[oxfordwebster]

The Courier has now deleted most of its' writing on the case (reason unknown).Just because you don't know how to use their crappy website doesn't mean they've deleted all of the writings. There isn't some conspiracy.

The Dover Times would barely even report on the case. The Courier is the only paper that tried to give it real coverage, despite my feelings about them.

[nobody]

Just because you don't know how to use their crappy website doesn't mean they've deleted all of the writings. There isn't some conspiracy.

The Dover Times would barely even report on the case. The Courier is the only paper that tried to give it real coverage, despite my feelings about them.

Ok, then give me one link, from the Courier - about this case. Fact is, they consider the case closed. Biased?

[nobody]

I stand corrected....I found multiple articles under "General Interest" archive. Sorry.

[oxfordwebster]

I stand corrected....I found multiple articles under "General Interest" archive. Sorry.You can find 92 articles online if you search for "Kevin Jones."

Compared to the Dover Times, who for some reason decided to hardly run anything about the case.

[nobody]

Dover Times is a much, much smaller paper than the Courier. It was started in the early 90's by one person. The building that it operated in was about the size of a ... gas station (can't think of any other consistantly small buildings). It paid another company to print for them. At the time - it cost like .25 cents and was once a week - Monday, if memory serves. I was for sure that it was going to come to a financial end - due to lack of interest.

Maybe a current citizen of Dover can give us more insight to the Dover Times advancement since that time.
anyone? Bueller?

[nobody]

I wonder when they photographed Kevin's hands/body for evidence of a struggle, etc.
Supposedly there were no signs of scratches, bruising, or typical signs.

However, they reported that a police officer asked him to quit hitting the staircase. During investigation - he pounded the chair and table.

If they had waited to photograph his hands after this - they might have had some real proof.

:)

[christina]

Thanks for the link to the Dover Times article. I also saw this one where a Courier employee filed an ethics complaint against the Times. The complaint was dismissed.
Has anyone else noticed that Janie Ginoccio has not had an article in the Courier since the trial?

http://www.atkinschronicle.com/dt3.htm

[christina]

3. Would you have done anything differently?
Answer: "Yes, I would have gotten an attorney immediately. I would recommend that every family develop a relationship with a trusted lawyer to advise them not only on legal matters, but to protect their legal rights, which are so easily violated, especially when you are in the midst of a tragedy. I have utterly lost my trust in law enforcement as a protective force. I only trust a few individuals now. The days following Nona's death, Kevin voluntarily gave information to the police department. He was only trying to help. Words he said were turned and twisted and made to fit their preconceived ideas, then later used to fabricate a bizarre tale of subterfuge. Kenny Johnson was right when he labeled this the most dangerous investigation he had ever seen."

You now have a convert to your way of thinking Loretta!

[optimumprimal78]

Dover Times is a much, much smaller paper than the Courier. It was started in the early 90's by one person. The building that it operated in was about the size of a ... gas station (can't think of any other consistantly small buildings). It paid another company to print for them. At the time - it cost like .25 cents and was once a week - Monday, if memory serves. I was for sure that it was going to come to a financial end - due to lack of interest.

Maybe a current citizen of Dover can give us more insight to the Dover Times advancement since that time.
anyone? Bueller?

I know that it was/is run by the same people that operate the Atkins paper. They have different people who do most of the articles. I think it is still 25 cents for a paper (although it might be 50 now). As far as I know they run on Wednesday and have had a pretty good market. I have seen them in Hector and Russellville.

[christina]

I believe this board was started in the hopes of finding justice for murder victim Nona Dirksmeyer. I have said before that at times it felt more like a "lynch Kevin Jones" forum. But now that the trial is over, the court system ran its course and Jones was pronounced innocent by a jury, the board might have lost its way.
I still want to see justice for Nona and her family. I do not want this to turn into a cold case we watch on a news program 10 years from now.
How do we make that happen? There seem to be no promises coming out of the police department and the prosecutor made the politically correct stance of "we tried the man we thought was guilty". But with so many unanswered questions, untested suspects, I hope the two departments see their way clear to continue the search for justice.

[lorettalockhorn]

3. Would you have done anything differently?
Answer: "Yes, I would have gotten an attorney immediately. I would recommend that every family develop a relationship with a trusted lawyer to advise them not only on legal matters, but to protect their legal rights, which are so easily violated, especially when you are in the midst of a tragedy. I have utterly lost my trust in law enforcement as a protective force. I only trust a few individuals now. The days following Nona's death, Kevin voluntarily gave information to the police department. He was only trying to help. Words he said were turned and twisted and made to fit their preconceived ideas, then later used to fabricate a bizarre tale of subterfuge. Kenny Johnson was right when he labeled this the most dangerous investigation he had ever seen."

You now have a convert to your way of thinking Loretta!

I find it hard to believe that any responsible adult who has any type of legal matter to be handled, wouldn't have access to an attorney who could, regardless of his area of practice, apprise them of their rights. And if you have an attorney, why not avail yourself?

(Guess that's part of why I have such a hard time believing the rumor that Mrs. York called the SO to ask about what had happened to Nona. Why wouldn't she have simply asked the attorney that accompanied Trey to his "wee hours of the morning" interview?)

[christina]

I find it hard to believe that any responsible adult who has any type of legal matter to be handled, wouldn't have access to an attorney who could, regardless of him area of practice, apprise them of their rights. And if you have an attorney, why not avail yourself?

(Guess that's part of why I have such a hard time believing the rumor that Mrs. York called the SO to ask about what had happened to Nona. Why wouldn't she have simply asked the attorney that accompanied Trey to his "wee hours of the morning" interview?)


I think Ms. Jones' attitude is true for many people. We were raised to have faith/believe in law enforcement and the legal system. They are to be trusted and thus the Jones never thought anything about their son helping them in any way he could.

It is still interesting to me what you chose to label rumor and ignore and what you chose to believe and discuss. The truth is Trey York's mom called the SO the morning after Nona's murder. As for the wee hours interview, I have finally been able to get verification- he was contacted that night by RPD but the interview did not take place until early on the 16th and yes, he had a lawyer in tow. Yorks next interview he had a lawyer present as well. Unfortunately Jones did not bring a lawyer to either.
The call from York's mom to SO could have been on their way to Russellville from Ashdown. The same with his text message. Would have liked to see York's cell tower pings!!

[optimumprimal78]

I believe this board was started in the hopes of finding justice for murder victim Nona Dirksmeyer. I have said before that at times it felt more like a "lynch Kevin Jones" forum. But now that the trial is over, the court system ran its course and Jones was pronounced innocent by a jury, the board might have lost its way.
I still want to see justice for Nona and her family. I do not want this to turn into a cold case we watch on a news program 10 years from now.
How do we make that happen? There seem to be no promises coming out of the police department and the prosecutor made the politically correct stance of "we tried the man we thought was guilty". But with so many unanswered questions, untested suspects, I hope the two departments see their way clear to continue the search for justice.

Jones was found "not guilty". TO ME, that doesn't mean that he was innocent. Innocence means he had nothing to do with it at all. Not guilty means that they weren't convinced he did it (but it was a possibility and they didn't have enough to declare him guilty).

I agree that there should be a continuation of the case. Whether that means petitioning the state police to get involved or keeping up the Justice for Nona campaign. BTW, I think the people who complained about that would have a different tune if it was someone they knew or cared about. But that is a different story.

[optimumprimal78]

I think Ms. Jones' attitude is true for many people. We were raised to have faith/believe in law enforcement and the legal system. They are to be trusted and thus the Jones never thought anything about their son helping them in any way he could.

It is still interesting to me what you chose to label rumor and ignore and what you chose to believe and discuss. The truth is Trey York's mom called the SO the morning after Nona's murder. As for the wee hours interview, I have finally been able to get verification- he was contacted that night by RPD but the interview did not take place until early on the 16th and yes, he had a lawyer in tow. Yorks next interview he had a lawyer present as well. Unfortunately Jones did not bring a lawyer to either.
The call from York's mom to SO could have been on their way to Russellville from Ashdown. The same with his text message. Would have liked to see York's cell tower pings!!

I am sure that there were other people who had lawyers in tow when they are being interviewed by lawyers. York probably isn't the only one in this case or any other case to do this. I know I would have one if I was interviewed.

[christina]

Jones was found "not guilty". TO ME, that doesn't mean that he was innocent. Innocence means he had nothing to do with it at all. Not guilty means that they weren't convinced he did it (but it was a possibility and they didn't have enough to declare him guilty).

I agree that there should be a continuation of the case. Whether that means petitioning the state police to get involved or keeping up the Justice for Nona campaign. BTW, I think the people who complained about that would have a different tune if it was someone they knew or cared about. But that is a different story.

I guess we will have to respectfully dis agree on this matter. To me, not guilty and innocent mean the exact same thing in a court of law. Jones was presumed innocent when he was charged and the verdict did not change that.
I do not know what "that" is. Can you explain?

[hawgustusgloop]

I think Ms. Jones' attitude is true for many people. We were raised to have faith/believe in law enforcement and the legal system. They are to be trusted and thus the Jones never thought anything about their son helping them in any way he could.

It is still interesting to me what you chose to label rumor and ignore and what you chose to believe and discuss. The truth is Trey York's mom called the SO the morning after Nona's murder. As for the wee hours interview, I have finally been able to get verification- he was contacted that night by RPD but the interview did not take place until early on the 16th and yes, he had a lawyer in tow. Yorks next interview he had a lawyer present as well. Unfortunately Jones did not bring a lawyer to either.
The call from York's mom to SO could have been on their way to Russellville from Ashdown. The same with his text message. Would have liked to see York's cell tower pings!!

Do you know what I want to see even more than York's cell tower pings? Some proof to back up all these RUMORS you are posting as if they were the absolute truth. Who verified to you that RPD contacted Trey the night of the murder, and that the interview didn't take place until early on the 16th? Doesn't this conflict with your previous "fact" about there being an interview in the "wee hours?"

I am not calling you a liar at all, I would just like something to back up these assertions before I can accept them as fact rather than rumor.

[lorettalockhorn]

I think Ms. Jones' attitude is true for many people. We were raised to have faith/believe in law enforcement and the legal system. They are to be trusted and thus the Jones never thought anything about their son helping them in any way he could.

It is still interesting to me what you chose to label rumor and ignore and what you chose to believe and discuss. The truth is Trey York's mom called the SO the morning after Nona's murder. As for the wee hours interview, I have finally been able to get verification- he was contacted that night by RPD but the interview did not take place until early on the 16th and yes, he had a lawyer in tow. Yorks next interview he had a lawyer present as well. Unfortunately Jones did not bring a lawyer to either.
The call from York's mom to SO could have been on their way to Russellville from Ashdown. The same with his text message. Would have liked to see York's cell tower pings!!

This is from yesterday (obviously), where you refuse to name your source. Honestly, the reason that I don't find you credible is because you refuse to name sources, post links or provide quotes when asked to back up rumors posted as fact. Whether any of these rumors or testimonies that no one else knows about or hears ever pan out are not going to restore your credibility. But hey, that's just me.

Yesterday, 12:04 PM
christina
Member Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 608
I am confident many more things(rumors and facts) will come out as time goes on and the trial gets further behind us. I stand firmly by this "rumor" as truth though.

I do look forward to many of our questions being answered. I'm sure when/if information comes out; we'll at least spend more time on it than the jury did.

BTW, to me a rumor is anything that is categorized as a rumor by the poster, or anything that is not backed up by a reliable source. I doubt that that definition varies much on this board or any other. If it does, I'm sure that I'll hear about it.

[lorettalockhorn]

Jones was found "not guilty". TO ME, that doesn't mean that he was innocent. Innocence means he had nothing to do with it at all. Not guilty means that they weren't convinced he did it (but it was a possibility and they didn't have enough to declare him guilty).

I agree that there should be a continuation of the case. Whether that means petitioning the state police to get involved or keeping up the Justice for Nona campaign. BTW, I think the people who complained about that would have a different tune if it was someone they knew or cared about. But that is a different story.

ITA Your philosophy of the subtle (apparently miniscule to some) difference is spot on.

[lorettalockhorn]

Do you know what I want to see even more than York's cell tower pings? Some proof to back up all these RUMORS you are posting as if they were the absolute truth. Who verified to you that RPD contacted Trey the night of the murder, and that the interview didn't take place until early on the 16th? Doesn't this conflict with your previous "fact" about there being an interview in the "wee hours?"

I am not calling you a liar at all, I would just like something to back up these assertions before I can accept them as fact rather than rumor.

It's a real head scratcher to me that RPD contacted York to arrange the wee hours interview, an attorney was arranged for, yet Mrs. York called the SO (who doesn't have jurisdiction over the city) to find out what happened to Nona instead of RPD.

It sounds to me like if the PCSD has someone who is verifying rumors with only certain people and then insisting on remaining anonymous, the sheriff needs to get on the stick and either gag the person due to the ongoing investigation or verify that the York business vis a vis his office is a fact OR a rumor.

[hawgustusgloop]

ITA Your philosophy of the subtle (apparently miniscule to some) difference is spot on.

Agreed. O.J. Simpson was found "not guilty." IMO not too many people think he is innocent of the crime of which he was accused.

[christina]

Do you know what I want to see even more than York's cell tower pings? Some proof to back up all these RUMORS you are posting as if they were the absolute truth. Who verified to you that RPD contacted Trey the night of the murder, and that the interview didn't take place until early on the 16th? Doesn't this conflict with your previous "fact" about there being an interview in the "wee hours?"

I am not calling you a liar at all, I would just like something to back up these assertions before I can accept them as fact rather than rumor.

I understand and respect your desire to have back up on my statements. And to a degree I understand why you do not want to believe or discuss things I have stated here. You still believe Jones to be guilty and do want to consider anything or anyone else.
And like I said before, I promised the person I would not share my source.

As for the wee hours comment, I voluntarily am here now, with egg on my face, saying I could not verify that.
But I could verify the other.

Rumors are not new to this blog, and like I said to Loretta, it is interesting which ones you chose to believe and discuss and which ones you do not.

[christina]

Agreed. O.J. Simpson was found "not guilty." IMO not too many people think he is innocent of the crime of which he was accused.

This case is not any where near comparable to the Simpson case.

[christina]

It's a real head scratcher to me that RPD contacted York to arrange the wee hours interview, an attorney was arranged for, yet Mrs. York called the SO (who doesn't have jurisdiction over the city) to find out what happened to Nona instead of RPD.

It sounds to me like if the PCSD has someone who is verifying rumors with only certain people and then insisting on remaining anonymous, the sheriff needs to get on the stick and either gag the person due to the ongoing investigation or verify that the York business vis a vis his office is a fact OR a rumor.

Well, its time for me to go bang my head against a wall, it is far more productive than posting here some days.

[lorettalockhorn]

I am sure that there were other people who had lawyers in tow when they are being interviewed by lawyers. York probably isn't the only one in this case or any other case to do this. I know I would have one if I was interviewed.

I've read here that CH had an attorney present when interviewed. I've also heard rumors that she was administered a polygraph. (I suppose that could have been in connection with the alleged rape. It's hard to be sure since the alleged rape discussion was intermingled with dialogue about this case.)

[hawgustusgloop]

This case is not any where near comparable to the Simpson case.

Who was comparing the two? I was just illustrating optimumprimal78's idea that being found "not guilty" and being innocent are two different things.

[lorettalockhorn]

Well, its time for me to go bang my head against a wall, it is far more productive than posting here some days.

Honestly, if you would refrain from posting rumors as truth, I would have more respect for your posts and opinions in general. Don't know how else to phrase it.

[optimumprimal78]

I guess we will have to respectfully dis agree on this matter. To me, not guilty and innocent mean the exact same thing in a court of law. Jones was presumed innocent when he was charged and the verdict did not change that.
I do not know what "that" is. Can you explain?

The "that" is the Justice for Nona campaign. It is a persons right to display a bumper sticker for a cause. If it so bothered people (like it supposedly did for the change in venue) then they could have printed Justice for Kevin or Justice for Whoever stickers.

[hawgustusgloop]

I understand and respect your desire to have back up on my statements. And to a degree I understand why you do not want to believe or discuss things I have stated here. You still believe Jones to be guilty and do want to consider anything or anyone else.And like I said before, I promised the person I would not share my source.

As for the wee hours comment, I voluntarily am here now, with egg on my face, saying I could not verify that.
But I could verify the other.

Rumors are not new to this blog, and like I said to Loretta, it is interesting which ones you chose to believe and discuss and which ones you do not.

Please, please, please do not put words into my mouth, tell me what I believe, or tell me what I am willing or not willing to consider.

My willingness to believe your rumors has nothing to do with what I want to believe and everthing to do with verification or even just passing the common sense test. If I saw that information in an article from an established news source, I would believe it. If I had the name of a person at the PCSD or the RPD I could contact to verify it, I'd believe it. I feel like you are posting these rumors, and instead of saying, "I heard this from someone, so I don't know how true it is," I get the feeling you are trying hard to convince us the rumor is true. It seems like you just bring out the rumor, and when we question it, it's like, "I just put in a call and had this verified," or "I had this confirmed with a member of law enforcement," etc., all sources which conveniently can't be named.

Again, I don't think anyone has a problem with rumors, but when someone posts something unverifiable and asserts that it's the truth, he or she should expect other posters to question it.

[oxfordwebster]

Christina,

I respectfully ask that you refrain from posting unverified rumors as facts. Because you can claim verification does not make it so. We have to work on facts, and when one person is trying to throw out rumors as being facts, it lowers the conversation, muddies the waters, and makes everything you have ever posted on this forum incredibly questionable.

I wish a moderator would step in, because this is getting absurd.

[TJEddie]

A rumor can be a fact and a fact can be a rumor. It's all a matter of personal verification. If christina has sought and received personal verification on something, it has become fact for her, and she has every right to report it as such. Wouldn't it be kind of stupid for christina to call something a rumor when she has checked it out and found it to be fact? The rest of us are free to call it whatever we want.....we can either accept christina's "fact" status, or we can continue to call it a rumor since we have only heard it secondhand.

As for posting sources on potentially sensitive information......that's something even news reporters aren't required to do.

[lorettalockhorn]

A rumor can be a fact and a fact can be a rumor. It's all a matter of personal verification. If christina has sought and received personal verification on something, it has become fact for her, and she has every right to report it as such. Wouldn't it be kind of stupid for christina to call something a rumor when she has checked it out and found it to be fact? The rest of us are free to call it whatever we want.....we can either accept christina's "fact" status, or we can continue to call it a rumor since we have only heard it secondhand.

As for posting sources on potentially sensitive information......that's something even news reporters aren't required to do.

Hey, Eddie. Was wondering where you were today.

Christina is not a reporter and doesn't enjoy that status, sorry. That she refuses to name her source about a rumor that I haven't heard anywhere else around town or Tech and that oxford was told by the sheriff's office was untrue makes her credibility all the more shaky. If she would admit that it is a rumor instead of fact, I could respect that.

[oxfordwebster]

On this very page she states things as fact that are not verified and are nothing but rumor. I don't care what she's said in the past--every single time she mentions her rumors they should be labeled as such.

I'm sorry if you can't understand that and we disagree.

[TJEddie]

It all comes down to the old saying, "consider the source." Anything that christina has personally verified from a source she deems credible is a fact to her. I stand by that. For those of us hearing it secondhand, it can still be classified as rumor until and unless we get verification from what we deem to be a credible source. Some see christina as a credible source, others don't.....we are each free to "consider the source."

And yes, by all means let's get the moderator's opinion if he/she deems it worthy.

[hawgustusgloop]

A rumor can be a fact and a fact can be a rumor. It's all a matter of personal verification. If christina has sought and received personal verification on something, it has become fact for her, and she has every right to report it as such. Wouldn't it be kind of stupid for christina to call something a rumor when she has checked it out and found it to be fact? The rest of us are free to call it whatever we want.....we can either accept christina's "fact" status, or we can continue to call it a rumor since we have only heard it secondhand.
As for posting sources on potentially sensitive information......that's something even news reporters aren't required to do.

We are also free to challenge the veracity of the rumor.

[lorettalockhorn]

It all comes down to the old saying, "consider the source." Anything that christina has personally verified from a source she deems credible is a fact to her. I stand by that. For those of us hearing it secondhand, it can still be classified as rumor until and unless we get verification from what we deem to be a credible source. Some see christina as a credible source, others don't.....we are each free to "consider the source."

And yes, by all means let's get the moderator's opinion if he/she deems it worthy.

That Christina feels the need to bang her head says quite a bit to me. I feel that she is frustrated that we don't blindly accept her version of reality to the point that she needs to leave the board. If she wants to believe that rumors are fact, that's fine, but I'm not going to be manipulated by her unwillingness to be responsible. My understanding of the rules is that rumors are to be labelled as such; I will study the rules again. For her to claim that she is exempt from naming her sources or for anyone to perceive that she is exempt is laughable.

[FKfanMoe]

Please, please, please do not put words into my mouth, tell me what I believe, or tell me what I am willing or not willing to consider.

My willingness to believe your rumors has nothing to do with what I want to believe and everthing to do with verification or even just passing the common sense test. If I saw that information in an article from an established news source, I would believe it. If I had the name of a person at the PCSD or the RPD I could contact to verify it, I'd believe it. I feel like you are posting these rumors, and instead of saying, "I heard this from someone, so I don't know how true it is," I get the feeling you are trying hard to convince us the rumor is true. It seems like you just bring out the rumor, and when we question it, it's like, "I just put in a call and had this verified," or "I had this confirmed with a member of law enforcement," etc., all sources which conveniently can't be named.

Again, I don't think anyone has a problem with rumors, but when someone posts something unverifiable and asserts that it's the truth, he or she should expect other posters to question it.

AGREED!! The real nasty thing about rumors is that when it's passed around without questioning, the INTENT behind the rumor usually is to do damage without being held responsible. Rumors are little more than tongues wagging unless independently verified with legitimate sources. Some rumors have a basis in fact, some are done by people with agendas of their own.

I don't mind mentioning rumors, as long as it's stated AS a rumor and not as fact. I myself have posted a rumor I heard about Nona being a cutter. I do not KNOW if the rumor is true or not. And I did state where I heard it.

Some years ago we had this epidemic of "satanic ritual abuse" and " cult crime" hysteria were certain people with agendas came out of the woodwork " educating" law enforcement on how to spot signs of what they claimed was satanic ritual abuse or a cult in the area. It turns out that those holding these seminars as self-professed " experts" in the field were more often than not Evangelical Christians who either thought they knew the subject or were deliberately deceiving. Fact was most of what they told people was just plain innacurate and sometimes even damaging to innocent people. This is an example where rumors when not checked out lead to hysteria and sensationalism where the facts and innocent people were the casualties.

I honestly cannot believe someone whom I do not know claim something and insist that I accept it as true. Particularly in something like this a murder case, I need the claim to be checked out. I am willing to hear any arguments that someone other than Jones did this.

Moe

[FKfanMoe]

Thanks for the link to the Dover Times article. I also saw this one where a Courier employee filed an ethics complaint against the Times. The complaint was dismissed.
Has anyone else noticed that Janie Ginoccio has not had an article in the Courier since the trial?

http://www.atkinschronicle.com/dt3.htm

The Courier management is not well known for being friendly to newspapers it cannot control in the area. Van Tyson is a journalism professor at ATU and if memory serves me correctly he also owns the Atkins Chronicle. The Courier controls the weekly newspaper the " Post-Dispatch" of Dardanelle, and if you ever seen the paper today versus 10 or 15 years ago you can see how the quality has deteriorated. Simply put the Courier does not like any competition and this obviously was an attempt to bully the Tysons.

Also Ms' Ginoccio may have been what is known as a stringer, someone hired to do piecemeal stories without actually being employed full time. She would be paid by the story published, and technically would not be an employee of the Courier.

For the record, I was an employee of the Courier some years ago as a reporter. So naturally I may have some grudges against the management of the paper. My firing was hardly handled delicately. But I was employed long enough to see how the paper was run and managed.

Moe

[FKfanMoe]

1. What do you want everybody to know that you have not been able to say before due to the gag order?
Answer: "For the first time, I can proclaim publicly that Kevin is not guilty, he is innocent. He was unjustly charged. I believe that within 24 hours members of the Russellville Police Department had already determined who they thought the guilty person was. Kevin's name was written as the suspect on the initial autopsy report that was sent to the crime lab after Nona's death.
He was being treated like a criminal that first night, not like someone who had come upon the death of a loved one. They interrogated Kevin cruelly for several hours the night of Nona's visitation and told him he would be arrested within a few days unless a miracle occurred. He maintained his innocence no matter how they twisted his words trying to get him to confess. That was six days after her death. They had a press conference all arranged the next morning, one hour before Nona's funeral. Chief Bacon later said, "As leads come in we continue to dispel, disprove, and eliminate them." Strongly negative words for people with an open mind seeking the truth."

2. How did you cope with such stress?
Answer: "The knowledge of the truth of Kevin's innocence. I stood on that truth. My faith in him never wavered. My faith in God also has grown so much deeper. Lots of prayer and support of a strong family and many loving friends; even people who didn't know us sustained us. Anyone who goes through the death of a loved one has experienced this special grace and peace. The public accusations, charges, and gossip would have been impossible to face without faith. That faith transferred to the calmly assuring team of lawyers who saw the truth and the injustice and pledged their allegiance of support to us. I praise God for all those who believed in Kevin, in us, and prayed for the truth to be revealed. That's all I ever asked for."

3. Would you have done anything differently?
Answer: "Yes, I would have gotten an attorney immediately. I would recommend that every family develop a relationship with a trusted lawyer to advise them not only on legal matters, but to protect their legal rights, which are so easily violated, especially when you are in the midst of a tragedy. I have utterly lost my trust in law enforcement as a protective force. I only trust a few individuals now. The days following Nona's death, Kevin voluntarily gave information to the police department. He was only trying to help. Words he said were turned and twisted and made to fit their preconceived ideas, then later used to fabricate a bizarre tale of subterfuge. Kenny Johnson was right when he labeled this the most dangerous investigation he had ever seen."

4. What are your feelings towards Nona?
Answer: "We loved Nona and visit her resting place. It is a place of refuge and sweet release for me. I made a promise to Kevin and to her that I will keep searching for her killer. As of yet, no agency has contacted us to accept our challenge to continue the search. They may be legally bound not to come forward yet, but I hope they will. This is not a cold case yet. There were so many details that were left undone. There is information that should lead experienced, thorough investigators to the truth."

5. What advice would you give to others who might be in the same situation one day?
Answer: "Pray and hire good attorneys. I know three wonderful ones that I will be glad to recommend."

6. What are Kevin's future plans?
Answer: "We are leaving tomorrow for a short trip just to get away. Then he will be continuing his education and now plans to change his major from engineering to psychology and law."

7. So how does one celebrate a not-guilty verdict?
Answer: "Kevin's attorneys have become family to us. Michael Robbins picked him up every day for the trial and then brought him home. Thursday afternoon, after the trial was over, I could not get ahold of either Kevin or Michael. I went driving towards the cabin that the Robbins were staying in and found them after they had stopped on the way home and had a great time enjoying the simple pleasure of jumping off the low water bridge."


Reference: http://www.atkinschronicle.com/dt1.htm

Pardon me but in an autopsy report there is no NEED to list a SUSPECT. Itis an INNAPROPRIATE PLACE to list suspects. In fact if the actual autopsy report HAD listed KJ as a suspect it would have crossed the boundaries of the job description severely. As for Ms. Jones claiming her son is innocent, Scott Peterson's mother loudly proclaimed the same thing, even though Scott had the motive, means and opportunity. A mother is in entitled to believe their offspring could never do something like murder.

It's the police's job to interrogate people , to try to get someone they think is guilty to break down and confess. Granted at times they use tactics that are qestionable but this is a case of murder, not shoplifting. You can't go to a supect and say " pretty please, can you confess for us?" What investigators do is get the story from the person then dissect it for contradictions, inaccuracies and other discrepancies. I highy doubt the police told her son he will be arrested in a few days after the interview. ' Course considering how the crime scene was botched up, it wouldn't suprise me that a cop opened his big yap without realizing if Jones had anything physical connecting him to the murder, he would have been forewarned enough to get rid of the evidence.

I do agree that if the police contact you for an interview, you should have an attorney present. It looks like you may have something to hide, but there are cops who are less than honorable and frankly while most of them are good people, you might get a bad one and need a little help.

Moe

[lorettalockhorn]

The Courier management is not well known for being friendly to newspapers it cannot control in the area. Van Tyson is a journalism professor at ATU and if memory serves me correctly he also owns the Atkins Chronicle. The Courier controls the weekly newspaper the " Post-Dispatch" of Dardanelle, and if you ever seen the paper today versus 10 or 15 years ago you can see how the quality has deteriorated. Simply put the Courier does not like any competition and this obviously was an attempt to bully the Tysons.

Also Ms' Ginoccio may have been what is known as a stringer, someone hired to do piecemeal stories without actually being employed full time. She would be paid by the story published, and technically would not be an employee of the Courier.

For the record, I was an employee of the Courier some years ago as a reporter. So naturally I may have some grudges against the management of the paper. My firing was hardly handled delicately. But I was employed long enough to see how the paper was run and managed.

Moe

I don't really know of any newspapers that are particularly friendly with the competition when it comes to circulation. Haven't seen the Pist Dispatch in ages, I do think that The Courier has improved over the years. (But I'm still suprised at the number of typos that squeak by.) The Tysons are both retired now; don't know if they spend more time working hands on with both their papers or not. I agreee with VTyson's reasoning behind the meeting announcement not being a political ad.

JG wrote on a contributing basis for The Arkansas Times, it's entirely possible that she was performing in the same capacity for The Courier. Maybe after the stress of the trial, she is resting up south of the river with her husband and gearing up for her own legal problems.

Sorry to hear about your problems Moe, I've always considered The Courier to be a crappy newspaper and am always amazed at the number of awards they pick up. But after reading it most of my life; I still subscribe. So thankful that I also have the ArDemGaz as well as other newspapers to read. (And work decent XWord puzzles.)

[lorettalockhorn]

Pardon me but in an autopsy report there is no NEED to list a SUSPECT. Itis an INNAPROPRIATE PLACE to list suspects. In fact if the actual autopsy report HAD listed KJ as a suspect it would have crossed the boundaries of the job description severely. As for Ms. Jones claiming her son is innocent, Scott Peterson's mother loudly proclaimed the same thing, even though Scott had the motive, means and opportunity. A mother is in entitled to believe their offspring could never do something like murder.

It's the police's job to interrogate people , to try to get someone they think is guilty to break down and confess. Granted at times they use tactics that are qestionable but this is a case of murder, not shoplifting. You can't go to a supect and say " pretty please, can you confess for us?" What investigators do is get the story from the person then dissect it for contradictions, inaccuracies and other discrepancies. I highy doubt the police told her son he will be arrested in a few days after the interview. ' Course considering how the crime scene was botched up, it wouldn't suprise me that a cop opened his big yap without realizing if Jones had anything physical connecting him to the murder, he would have been forewarned enough to get rid of the evidence.

I do agree that if the police contact you for an interview, you should have an attorney present. It looks like you may have something to hide, but there are cops who are less than honorable and frankly while most of them are good people, you might get a bad one and need a little help.

Moe

Interesting about the autopsy report; is that a form that is sent? Is there a blank for the suspects name? For instance, if at a later date, there will be blood or DNA evidence to compare to what is collected from the victim?

From what I've read, there was nothing cruel about the way that KJ was questioned. Don't know why the attorney (IF not a rumor) at York's interview is such a big deal; it simply sounds to me like his family is smarter, more sophisticated, better prepared, better connected, etc. Maybe even kin to an attorney.

[christina]

Hey, Eddie. Was wondering where you were today.

Christina is not a reporter and doesn't enjoy that status, sorry. That she refuses to name her source about a rumor that I haven't heard anywhere else around town or Tech and that oxford was told by the sheriff's office was untrue makes her credibility all the more shaky. If she would admit that it is a rumor instead of fact, I could respect that.

When did Ox say that?

[christina]

On this very page she states things as fact that are not verified and are nothing but rumor. I don't care what she's said in the past--every single time she mentions her rumors they should be labeled as such.

I'm sorry if you can't understand that and we disagree.

And on this very page I voluntarily admitted when I was not able to get something verified. Can you say the same for what you have posted?

[oxfordwebster]

When did Ox say that?I made my own call and you even responded to the comment I made about it.

[lorettalockhorn]

When did Ox say that?

Can't believe that you don't remember him telling you that he called the SO. You even responded to him with this:

Sorry, your sources aren't as knowledgable as mine. And I see you did not name yours either.
I am very comfortable believing that it is true as it was viewed as something that helped the prosecution's case and my law enforcement friend continues to try to get me to see Jones did it.

And, BTW, its not a game to me. As I stated before, as a resident of this community and having a family member attending ATU, I want the truth and this case solved.

[christina]

AGREED!! The real nasty thing about rumors is that when it's passed around without questioning, the INTENT behind the rumor usually is to do damage without being held responsible. Rumors are little more than tongues wagging unless independently verified with legitimate sources. Some rumors have a basis in fact, some are done by people with agendas of their own.

I don't mind mentioning rumors, as long as it's stated AS a rumor and not as fact. I myself have posted a rumor I heard about Nona being a cutter. I do not KNOW if the rumor is true or not. And I did state where I heard it.

Some years ago we had this epidemic of "satanic ritual abuse" and " cult crime" hysteria were certain people with agendas came out of the woodwork " educating" law enforcement on how to spot signs of what they claimed was satanic ritual abuse or a cult in the area. It turns out that those holding these seminars as self-professed " experts" in the field were more often than not Evangelical Christians who either thought they knew the subject or were deliberately deceiving. Fact was most of what they told people was just plain innacurate and sometimes even damaging to innocent people. This is an example where rumors when not checked out lead to hysteria and sensationalism where the facts and innocent people were the casualties.

I honestly cannot believe someone whom I do not know claim something and insist that I accept it as true. Particularly in something like this a murder case, I need the claim to be checked out. I am willing to hear any arguments that someone other than Jones did this.

Moe

I appreciate this sentence. As has been said before- it is hard to accept things from posters because we can not look them in the eye, hear their voice, watch them as they speak. My intent has never been to spread lies, hate or discontent. All I can do is state this and hope you chose to believe me. I have gotten very frustrated at times and probably sounded a bit irritated. But not once has my intent been to mislead.
I got involved with the blog because of the Whiteside story by the Courier and Janie Ginoccio's article about this. I never intended to go this far into this case as I did not know either family involved. But I did and now feel invested.
Some of you have talked about trolls(I think this is what you call them) who come on here, say things and run. I do hope that after this many weeks of my posting, you see that is not my way. Impatient, a little short/irritable, and definitely a sense of humor few like, but I have stuck in and posted, answered questions, apologized when needed. Heck, I have even asked FreshWater to remove some of my own posts because people told me they were offended/bothered.
So, you do not have to believe that York's mother called the SO on the morning of the 16th. I will not ask you to any longer. It was verified to me by people I know and trust, people who know it as fact. I thoguht by sharing it here it would help add to the overall story.

Took aspirin, head it better.

[christina]

I made my own call and you even responded to the comment I made about it.

Sorry, I remember you saying you called but I don't remember you telling your source when I asked. Which post number was that?

[christina]

Can't believe that you don't remember him telling you that he called the SO. You even responded to him with this:

Ox is a man? I didn't know that!

[hawgustusgloop]

Can't believe that you don't remember him telling you that he called the SO. You even responded to him with this:

Maybe she was just being cheeky again?

[christina]

We are also free to challenge the veracity of the rumor.

I totally agree. And you are free to not believe the rumor if you chose even after a poster tells you they had it verified.

[christina]

Maybe she was just being cheeky again?

Hey, I resemble that remark!

[hawgustusgloop]

Sorry, I remember you saying you called but I don't remember you telling your source when I asked. Which post number was that?

Okay. I just made my own phone call and the person I talked to said that what you're claiming isn't true at all.

Fun game, isn't it? Posting rumors as facts without backup or evidence?

Post #6018

[oxfordwebster]

I totally agree. And you are free to not believe the rumor if you chose even after a poster tells you they had it verified.That's not exactly how verification for a group of people works.

[lorettalockhorn]

I totally agree. And you are free to not believe the rumor if you chose even after a poster tells you they had it verified.


I double checked the house rules with regard to responsiblity for our posts; statements as fact require a source. That is why I always try to label rumor for exactly what it is. That enables anyone who doesn't want to read rumors to skip my post and not feel as though I'm trying to manipulate them with some specter of an official source.

[christina]

Example of an untruth being spoken as truth by Oxfordwebster. Post Number 348-

The reason I am sharing this is that many times as I read through this blog, things were said like they were fact. I accepted them that way, just as I accepted the PCS as fact. I have since found out some of them were not fact but interpretation and not proven/backed up.
The highlighted part is what I am referring to. Jones said this in his voluntary interview the night of the murder. Whiteside stated it in his intital statement to police. The defense lawyers were not the first to mention it. The police knew it when they wrote the PCS. Now because of the gag order this information did not come out unitl the trial, but it is spoken in this post as fact.

In my opinion...

As has already been said, it's interesting that resuscitation was mentioned first by the defense lawyer. You would think Kevin would use that as an explanation to the police, but we have to hear it from the defense attorney. The defense attorney whose sole purpose is to manufacture a case that somehow proves Kevin's innocence.

I think I'm going to go with the probable cause statement instead of a manufactured statement said 3-4 months later. The evidence of December 15 is all that matters.

[christina]

Quote:
Originally Posted by christina
Sorry, I remember you saying you called but I don't remember you telling your source when I asked. Which post number was that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxfordwebster
Okay. I just made my own phone call and the person I talked to said that what you're claiming isn't true at all.

Fun game, isn't it? Posting rumors as facts without backup or evidence?

Post #6018

I was specifically referring to Loretta saying Ox called the SO. Nowhere does Ox say that. So we did/do not know the source still.

[christina]

I double checked the house rules with regard to responsiblity for our posts; statements as fact require a source. That is why I always try to label rumor for exactly what it is. That enables anyone who doesn't want to read rumors to skip my post and not feel as though I'm trying to manipulate them with some specter of an official source.

Thank you, I need to go back and re read the rules and adhere more closely to them.
All I can say is my intent was not to manipulate. Hopefully I have proved that by telling my intents, opinions and sometimes feelings up front!
I do think the "rumor" I shared will be told in the near future by someone/a source you will believe.

[hawgustusgloop]

Example of an untruth being spoken as truth by Oxfordwebster. Post Number 348-

The reason I am sharing this is that many times as I read through this blog, things were said like they were fact. I accepted them that way, just as I accepted the PCS as fact. I have since found out some of them were not fact but interpretation and not proven/backed up.
The highlighted part is what I am referring to. Jones said thisin his voluntary interview the night of the murder. Whiteside stated it in his intital statement to police. The defense lawyers were not the first to mention it. The police knew it when they wrote the PCS. Now because of the gag order this information did not come out unitl the trial, but it is spoken in this post as fact.

In my opinion...

As has already been said, it's interesting that resuscitation was mentioned first by the defense lawyer. You would think Kevin would use that as an explanation to the police, but we have to hear it from the defense attorney. The defense attorney whose sole purpose is to manufacture a case that somehow proves Kevin's innocence.

I think I'm going to go with the probable cause statement instead of a manufactured statement said 3-4 months later. The evidence of December 15 is all that matters.

So where is the proof this is untrue? I do remember stuff about K.Jo trying to keep her warm, straddling her, and flailing around, though. Does he even know how to resuscitate someone?

[lorettalockhorn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by christina
Sorry, I remember you saying you called but I don't remember you telling your source when I asked. Which post number was that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oxfordwebster
Okay. I just made my own phone call and the person I talked to said that what you're claiming isn't true at all.

Fun game, isn't it? Posting rumors as facts without backup or evidence?

Post #6018

I was specifically referring to Loretta saying Ox called the SO. Nowhere does Ox say that. So we did/do not know the source still.

Mea culpa. He quoted the post where you provided the SO's phone number. I should not have assumed that he called that 968-2558.

[lorettalockhorn]

Example of an untruth being spoken as truth by Oxfordwebster. Post Number 348-

The reason I am sharing this is that many times as I read through this blog, things were said like they were fact. I accepted them that way, just as I accepted the PCS as fact. I have since found out some of them were not fact but interpretation and not proven/backed up.
The highlighted part is what I am referring to. Jones said thisin his voluntary interview the night of the murder. Whiteside stated it in his intital statement to police. The defense lawyers were not the first to mention it. The police knew it when they wrote the PCS. Now because of the gag order this information did not come out unitl the trial, but it is spoken in this post as fact.

In my opinion...

As has already been said, it's interesting that resuscitation was mentioned first by the defense lawyer. You would think Kevin would use that as an explanation to the police, but we have to hear it from the defense attorney. The defense attorney whose sole purpose is to manufacture a case that somehow proves Kevin's innocence.

I think I'm going to go with the probable cause statement instead of a manufactured statement said 3-4 months later. The evidence of December 15 is all that matters.

I remember reading that ridiculous assertion in a newspaper article. I guess if I hadn't recalled it, I would have asked for a link at the time.

[christina]

Mea culpa. He quoted the post where you provided the SO's phone number. I should not have assumed that he called that 968-2558.

I've spent plenty of time on my kneeler in the pew performing mea culpas. My mother would be so proud just to know I occasionally use the latin she instructed me in!

[christina]

So where is the proof this is untrue? I do remember stuff about K.Jo trying to keep her warm, straddling her, and flailing around, though. Does he even know how to resuscitate someone?

Anyone who watched the tape in court can tell you. He states it at least once in that voluntary interview. It was in Whiteside's (and I think Janice Jones) statements as well. It showed in the pictures the police took of him that night, he had blood on his face and was asked how it got there.
This is part of the court record. Please tell me that is verification enough :)

[christina]

Pardon me but in an autopsy report there is no NEED to list a SUSPECT. Itis an INNAPROPRIATE PLACE to list suspects. In fact if the actual autopsy report HAD listed KJ as a suspect it would have crossed the boundaries of the job description severely. As for Ms. Jones claiming her son is innocent, Scott Peterson's mother loudly proclaimed the same thing, even though Scott had the motive, means and opportunity. A mother is in entitled to believe their offspring could never do something like murder.

It's the police's job to interrogate people , to try to get someone they think is guilty to break down and confess. Granted at times they use tactics that are qestionable but this is a case of murder, not shoplifting. You can't go to a supect and say " pretty please, can you confess for us?" What investigators do is get the story from the person then dissect it for contradictions, inaccuracies and other discrepancies. I highy doubt the police told her son he will be arrested in a few days after the interview. ' Course considering how the crime scene was botched up, it wouldn't suprise me that a cop opened his big yap without realizing if Jones had anything physical connecting him to the murder, he would have been forewarned enough to get rid of the evidence.

I do agree that if the police contact you for an interview, you should have an attorney present. It looks like you may have something to hide, but there are cops who are less than honorable and frankly while most of them are good people, you might get a bad one and need a little help.

Moe

I could not agree with this more. We might be able to FOI this at very little cost as it already exists in written form.

[lorettalockhorn]

So where is the proof this is untrue? I do remember stuff about K.Jo trying to keep her warm, straddling her, and flailing around, though. Does he even know how to resuscitate someone?


I don't think there is any proof that it is untrue or it would have been questioned at the time. It was in a media article and at the time that the statement was posted on the board, it was probably accepted that the defense attorney had indeed made the statement.

[jonikay]

I don't think there is any proof that it is untrue or it would have been questioned at the time. It was in a media article and at the time that the statement was posted on the board, it was probably accepted that the defense attorney had indeed made the statement.
As far as the trial was concerned, the statement regarding Kevin's effort to resuscitate Nona was made first by the defense as a sort of rebuttal against the prosecution's claim that Kevin was on top of Nona's body to taint the scene. In Kevin's interview, he does, however, mention that he tried to administer CPR, but her teeth were clamped shut. CPR does not require someone to lay on top of another's body and when he tried to open her mouth to give her CPR, her mouth wouldn't open. So, how could he have done a succession of breathing/compressions at all if he couldn't open her mouth? This is a rhetorical question, but worth thinking about, I guess . . .

[LurkerNoMore]

Maybe even kin to an attorney.

Hmmm. Interesting statement, Loretta.

[lorettalockhorn]

As far as the trial was concerned, the statement regarding Kevin's effort to resuscitate Nona was made first by the defense as a sort of rebuttal against the prosecution's claim that Kevin was on top of Nona's body to taint the scene. In Kevin's interview, he does, however, mention that he tried to administer CPR, but her teeth were clamped shut.

Hey jk! I probably didn't do a good job of quoting exactly what I was referring to; I simply didn't have a problem with ox posting something that had been published by the media; I had no reason to believe the earnest intent of the report.

The reason that I have a problem with KJ's resuscitation attempt is that he told the operator that he thought that she was dead, and because according to the EMT, he seemed to be manhandling her. I wonder if Nona had any post-mortemm rib injuries? CPR attempts can bruise/break ribs.

[lorettalockhorn]

Hmmm. Interesting statement, Loretta.


Not sure why you find it interesting; but he's being damned for having an attorney present when it was his right. It occurred to me that he might have one right there in the house, or at least one that he wouldn't mind imposing on.

[jonikay]

Come on Valley Grrrrlll. You can put this together. They read him his Miranda Rights, a) because he was driving through town on the night of the murder, b) once lived in Little Rock, c) had never been anywhere near Russellville, or d) was one of the guys that was visiting Nona late at night. (IMO) He was a suspect, silly. And you also could figure anyone who is a suspect in a murder of a college student in Russellville, and gave his address as Ashdown, was a) on the police department, b) worked at a drive-in, c) was a student at the college or d) none of the above. (IMO) How you doing so far?

Now, to find out more, you have to use your computer skills. Such as, his father's name is Jim York, II. His grandfather's name was Jim York. His great-grandfather was known as Doctor York. He comes from an old-time, prominent Ashdown family. Okay, I know prominent Ashdown family is a bit of a oxymoron. Anyway, that is what my machine told me. I could go into aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, so on and so forth, but all you need to know is this prominent Ashdown family is known for their girl-courting in their youths. So the gene must of just carried over to Jimmy the Third. All in all, good bunch of folks. Not likely going to find a murderer amongst them. (IMO) But then, Det. Frostie must not be as literate on the machine as us, or he could have saved Jimmy the embarassment of the Miranda Rights and all. (IMO)

P.S. Or, he could have just come on here and asked me.
bumpety-bump . . .
In response to dtbh's question of who is James York III and why he was read his miranda rights . . .
gentilben, are you there?

[Riviera]

The conversation appears to be turning a bit personal. Lets stay on topic please -------> Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment
Reply to Thread

Thank you

[christina]

As far as the trial was concerned, the statement regarding Kevin's effort to resuscitate Nona was made first by the defense as a sort of rebuttal against the prosecution's claim that Kevin was on top of Nona's body to taint the scene. In Kevin's interview, he does, however, mention that he tried to administer CPR, but her teeth were clamped shut. CPR does not require someone to lay on top of another's body and when he tried to open her mouth to give her CPR, her mouth wouldn't open. So, how could he have done a succession of breathing/compressions at all if he couldn't open her mouth? This is a rhetorical question, but worth thinking about, I guess . . .

You are correct Jonikay, thanks for backing me up/verifying - it was mentioned in opening arguments by the defense lawyer, then verified in the taped interview when shown. I think the EMT testified Jones told her he tried CPR, were you there that day or for Whiteside's?
However, we know now the police had that information prior to writing the PCS, forming their opinion and calling press conferences.

[Riviera]

The conversation appears to be turning a bit personal. Lets stay on topic please -------> Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment
Reply to Thread

Thank you

Bump---> I made this post 20 minutes ago. Lets get back on topic please.

[christina]

Bump---> I made this post 20 minutes ago. Lets get back on topic please.

Yes sir/mam. Please read your pm's.

[christina]

Does anyone have an opinion of whether any other law enforcement agencies will get involved and go through the file? Re open the case?

[christina]

Hey, Eddie. Was wondering where you were today.

Christina is not a reporter and doesn't enjoy that status, sorry. That she refuses to name her source about a rumor that I haven't heard anywhere else around town or Tech and that oxford was told by the sheriff's office was untrue makes her credibility all the more shaky. If she would admit that it is a rumor instead of fact, I could respect that.

Riveria, please allow to me to gain clarification from Loretta on this matter. I do not mean to digress, I want to know for future posting reasons.
Loretta, the reports from the Courier are unquestioningly posted on here by you and others. No source is needed, they are accepted as total, unbiased truths. However, we know by her own admission that the reporter, Janie Ginoccio lied on this blog, deceived people on this blog, and broke the rules by posting as two different people. I have done none of those. As fact- I have told my biases up front.
Why then do her postings in the Courier not require verification? Why does she "enjoy the status" of reporter- one who is not to be questioned, and I do not? We both sat full time in the courtroom. We both heard the same testimony. We both have "sources" in law enforcement we gather information from.

And you were willing to believe Oxford's post without question or source, you even used the post to "discredit mine.

[sololobo]

Does anyone have an opinion of whether any other law enforcement agencies will get involved and go through the file? Re open the case?

Probably not another agency but I believe this case will always be on the minds of the RPD. The actual events and facts of this case will always remain, the interpretations of them may change. New technology tomorrow may answer questions not even asked today. The killer may think he is safe, but the slightest mistake on his part, a slip of the tongue perhaps, can cast suspicion on him. He must walk a tightrope for the rest of his life, forever in fear of discovery. And we wait, with infinite patience, for that one mistake.

[christina]

Probably not another agency but I believe this case will always be on the minds of the RPD. The actual events and facts of this case will always remain, the interpretations of them may change. New technology tomorrow may answer questions not even asked today. The killer may think he is safe, but the slightest mistake on his part, a slip of the tongue perhaps, can cast suspicion on him. He must walk a tightrope for the rest of his life, forever in fear of discovery. And we wait, with infinite patience, for that one mistake.

I would rather see this solved than on a news program 10 years from now. Other agencies stepping in now is not realistic probably.

Your verbage does sound like a novelist/writer in some of your posts!

[sololobo]

I would rather see this solved than on a news program 10 years from now. Other agencies stepping in now is not realistic probably.

Your verbage does sound like a novelist/writer in some of your posts!

We seem to be the only ones here. Maybe we can co-author a book on this case while everyone else is gone:)

[TJEddie]

We seem to be the only ones here. Maybe we can co-author a book on this case while everyone else is gone:)

You've got your first order right here. I've been thinking that this case would make for a great true crime novel.

(Slightly OT, but I assume others here have read Grisham's "An Innocent Man"? That book will make you think....)

[christina]

You've got your first order right here. I've been thinking that this case would make for a great true crime novel.

(Slightly OT, but I assume others here have read Grisham's "An Innocent Man"? That book will make you think....)

No, I have not read that book. Interesting title and I need something to do this weekend....

[christina]

I'm going to lay some ideas (IMI) out here about York...

Alibi- none except his word
History- lied about his relationship with Nona as the neighbor, lab partner and text records testified to. Lied to police about when he heard about Nona's death.
On stand-admitted he was bothered by Nona, feeling she used him for a biology grade
Access-had been to the apartment on prior occasions
Odd behavoir-wouldn't answer phone call from lab partner the night of the murder but was curious enough he had a friend call the number back to see who it was, texted Nona the next morning about hearing something might be wrong with her even though lab partner had left message the night before.
Motive-jealousy, he viewed Nona as his girlfriend and then Jones comes home from Fayetteville. He comes over the morning of the murder after texting her to return cake pan, places cake pan on stove, starts to make moves on Nona to the point of "suiting up" then sees the bag of popcorn and drinks from Nona's date with Jones in the trash by the kitchen counter, confronts her, argument ensues, murders her, realizes he needs an alibi, turns kitchen light on(blood by that switch), grabs cake pan back(Nona's blood on stove), leaves and then texts her.

[hawgustusgloop]

I'm going to lay some ideas (IMI) out here about York...

Alibi- none except his word
History- lied about his relationship with Nona as the neighbor, lab partner and text records testified to. Lied to police about when he heard about Nona's death.
On stand-admitted he was bothered by Nona, feeling she used him for a biology grade
Access-had been to the apartment on prior occasions
Odd behavoir-wouldn't answer phone call from lab partner the night of the murder but was curious enough he had a friend call the number back to see who it was, texted Nona the next morning about hearing something might be wrong with her even though lab partner had left message the night before.
Motive-jealousy, he viewed Nona as his girlfriend and then Jones comes home from Fayetteville. He comes over the morning of the murder after texting her to return cake pan, places cake pan on stove, starts to make moves on Nona to the point of "suiting up" then sees the bag of popcorn and drinks from Nona's date with Jones in the trash by the kitchen counter, confronts her, argument ensues, murders her, realizes he needs an alibi, turns kitchen light on(blood by that switch), grabs cake pan back(Nona's blood on stove), leaves and then texts her.

Why would Trey take the stick in this scenario?

Also, he may have an alibi that has been verified for all we know.

What specific time would he have committed this crime?

[hawgustusgloop]

I had my own York scenario:

Remember how it was reported that Trey said he didn't feel comfortable (or something similar) having sex with Nona?

Maybe Trey went to visit her that day and she tried to get him into bed as soon as he walked in the door. Maybe he acquiesced in the beginning, even to the point of opening up a condom and putting it on. At some point, though, he just wasn't ready but Nona wouldn't take no for an answer. He felt so uncomfortable that he flew into a rage, angry at her for what he felt she was trying to pressure him into doing and unable to deal with his feelings, and killed her. Afraid, he hurriedly left without removing the condom (yet remembering to grab a cake pan from the oven for alibi purposes) and without picking up the wrapper that was left on the counter. His clothes had no blood on them, but he did manage to get some blood in his car, which he cleaned up and claimed was a coke stain. He took the stick to fight off any ninjas he may have encountered on the way to clean up the stain in his car, and deposited the stick, the cake pan, and the condom in the garbage at the car wash.

This is not serious, of course, but it is the only way it makes sense to me if Trey York is the killer.

[Manning]

Why would Trey take the stick in this scenario?

Also, he may have an alibi that has been verified for all we know.

What specific time would he have committed this crime?

Also, why would he take the phone battery and then later send a text message when he would have surely known that it wouldn't go through on her phone?

[hawgustusgloop]

I wonder to what extent K.Jo and Trey York knew of each other's existence. Could K.Jo have been the one making the harrassing calls to Trey's phone?

[lorettalockhorn]

I wonder to what extent K.Jo and Trey York knew of each other's existence. Could K.Jo have been the one making the harrassing calls to Trey's phone?


I asked that question too, I wonder if KJ's or York's phone records were examined for that possibility.

I can't accept that York has no alibi; no one testified one way or another (I guess since he was not on trial). Did the neighbor actually ever identify York as having been at Nona's apartment? We know that his first test was completed quickly, how about the second test? Do we know if he actually had time to commit the murder before leaving town? Or when he left town? I thought that Walker testified that he didn't tell York that Nona was dead the night of the 15th only that she had been found in a pool of blood. I am curious as to what time he was interviewed by LE with regard to the text message to Nona on the 16th.

Manning, the only reason that I can imagine that someone would take the battery, yet still call, would be to make it appear as though they had no knowledge that Nona was dead. It's one of the reasons that I thought that it was so contrived that KJ said that he called more often than he did, and called the Dipert home, but didn't relay his concerns to DD.

[Manning]

Why would Trey take the stick in this scenario?

Also, he may have an alibi that has been verified for all we know.

What specific time would he have committed this crime?

I asked that question too, I wonder if KJ's or York's phone records were examined for that possibility.

I can't accept that York has no alibi; no one testified one way or another (I guess since he was not on trial). Did the neighbor actually ever identify York as having been at Nona's apartment? We know that his first test was completed quickly, how about the second test? Do we know if he actually had time to commit the murder before leaving town? Or when he left town? I thought that Walker testified that he didn't tell York that Nona was dead the night of the 15th only that she had been found in a pool of blood. I am curious as to what time he was interviewed by LE with regard to the text message to Nona on the 16th.

Manning, the only reason that I can imagine that someone would take the battery, yet still call, would be to make it appear as though they had no knowledge that Nona was dead. It's one of the reasons that I thought that it was so contrived that KJ said that he called more often than he did, and called the Dipert home, but didn't relay his concerns to DD.

I must not think like most 'cause if I wanted a phone call or message to suggest that I had no knowledge of something I would have left the battery on the phone. In other words I just don't see York taking the battery off.

With LE at the apartment that night, and LE taking KJ from there straight to the police office how did Walker or any other classmates know anything by 10:00pm that night? This may have been discussed earlier and I just missed it - but that seems pretty fast for word to get out especially when alot of ATU students had left town to go back to their hometowns. Who told Walker anything? I don't picture KJ or RW getting to make phone calls during this time.

[oxfordwebster]

Are the rules relaxed now to where we can post unfounded rumors as facts?

[Manning]

Ox - I am very new at this and hope I didn't do something wrong - I'm just asking questions.
I guess it's obivious that I'm new to this because I've managed to mess up something in every post I've done.

[lorettalockhorn]

I must not think like most 'cause if I wanted a phone call or message to suggest that I had no knowledge of something I would have left the battery on the phone. In other words I just don't see York taking the battery off.

With LE at the apartment that night, and LE taking KJ from there straight to the police office how did Walker or any other classmates know anything by 10:00pm that night? This may have been discussed earlier and I just missed it - but that seems pretty fast for word to get out especially when alot of ATU students had left town to go back to their hometowns. Who told Walker anything? I don't picture KJ or RW getting to make phone calls during this time.

I see what you're saying about the battery and that the guilty party would want the call to show up, I'm just trying to imagine why the killer, regardless of whom he is, calling or texting to say anything once he knows that she's dead. And the only thing that I can come up with, is to feign ignorance/innocence. (Hope that made any sense whatsoever.)

Good question about how Walker or anyone else knew. I heard enough of the call on my scanner to know that there was a death and that it was likely a homicide. Didn't know that it was Nona until morning. Maybe Nona's family notified someone close to her who told others.

[oxfordwebster]

Ox - I am very new at this and hope I didn't do something wrong - I'm just asking questions.
I guess it's obivious that I'm new to this because I've managed to mess up something in every post I've done.I didn't read your post, so don't worry about that. I'm just very disappointed with how this forum has been moderated and manipulated.

[sololobo]

Perhaps we should consider the slim possibility of a serial sexual predator/murderer. I know several on this board are keeping up with the thread here about the Nina Ingram murder case in Fayetteville. Are there any similarities between these two murders? Also, has anyone heard anything about the rape of an ATU coed in her apartment a couple of weeks ago?

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showt...ht=nina+ingram

[LurkerNoMore]

I didn't read your post, so don't worry about that. I'm just very disappointed with how this forum has been moderated and manipulated.

My interpretation is that when other suspects are brought up and addresses seriously, you think this board is being manipulated.

I disagree, but that's an easy way to try and eliminate posters and topics that don't share your beliefs about Kevin.

I could easily say this board has been manipulated by the "lynch Kevin" crowd. Instead, I try to raise questions to make that crowd think.

[hawgustusgloop]

I'm going to lay some ideas (IMI) out here about York...

Alibi- none except his wordHistory- lied about his relationship with Nona as the neighbor, lab partner and text records testified to. Lied to police about when he heard about Nona's death.
On stand-admitted he was bothered by Nona, feeling she used him for a biology grade
Access-had been to the apartment on prior occasions
Odd behavoir-wouldn't answer phone call from lab partner the night of the murder but was curious enough he had a friend call the number back to see who it was, texted Nona the next morning about hearing something might be wrong with her even though lab partner had left message the night before.
Motive-jealousy, he viewed Nona as his girlfriend and then Jones comes home from Fayetteville. He comes over the morning of the murder after texting her to return cake pan, places cake pan on stove, starts to make moves on Nona to the point of "suiting up" then sees the bag of popcorn and drinks from Nona's date with Jones in the trash by the kitchen counter, confronts her, argument ensues, murders her, realizes he needs an alibi, turns kitchen light on(blood by that switch), grabs cake pan back(Nona's blood on stove), leaves and then texts her.

How can you say Trey York has no alibi "other than his word?" He was not on trial, so his alibi wasn't presented to you or the jury. I think it is careless to claim he has no alibi when you don't know if he does or not, or to what extent it has been verified.

[optimumprimal78]

The stick - did it really exist? Did anybody have a picture of said stick? It is possible for there to never have been one to begin with or that it might have been thrown out in order to eventually get a new one (the apartments weren't that new so it is possible).

Trey York - He was NOT on trial. Kevin Jones was.

Jared (?) - See above.

If they were suspected then, now that the trial is over, someone should test them and redo their steps from that day.

Kevin Jones - MOO. Since the beginning of this case I have wanted Justice to be served for NONA. She was the victim and she is the one who will never get to be with her family and friends again. My feelings are that the case wasn't presented as good as it should have been (hence "not guilty" as opposed to "innocent"). On that I believe that her family got a raw deal. I also do not like the fact that if this kid (KJ) was really that sincere about his caring and love for nona that he would be out partying and handling himself like nothing was wrong for last year and a half as has been reported and seen.

[nobody]

The Jone's have seemed to lose everything - their business, their home, probably suspecting friends, and public image. I'm just curious - is there any payback from the legal system? If they wrongly accused him and held him on probable cause - do they pay back the $25k bond or any legal fees? Or does he have to counter-sue? How does this work?

To me, this family has proven to that they are very strong. I think if there was any doubt in Kevin Jones or lack of love in this family - they would have folded early in the case.

[optimumprimal78]

The Jone's have seemed to lose everything - their business, their home, probably suspecting friends, and public image. I'm just curious - is there any payback from the legal system? If they wrongly accused him and held him on probable cause - do they pay back the $25k bond or any legal fees? Or does he have to counter-sue? How does this work?

To me, this family has proven to that they are very strong. I think if there was any doubt in Kevin Jones or lack of love in this family - they would have folded early in the case.

I know they sold their business but when did they sell their home? I could be wrong but they only had to pay a percent of that bond. I figure if they were going to try to get any money back they would have to sue the city/county. Why would they counter-sue Nona's family? The police and investigators are the ones who came to the conclusion that KJ did it.

[TJEddie]

I'm going to lay some ideas (IMI) out here about York...

Alibi- none except his word
History- lied about his relationship with Nona as the neighbor, lab partner and text records testified to. Lied to police about when he heard about Nona's death.
On stand-admitted he was bothered by Nona, feeling she used him for a biology grade
Access-had been to the apartment on prior occasions
Odd behavoir-wouldn't answer phone call from lab partner the night of the murder but was curious enough he had a friend call the number back to see who it was, texted Nona the next morning about hearing something might be wrong with her even though lab partner had left message the night before.
Motive-jealousy, he viewed Nona as his girlfriend and then Jones comes home from Fayetteville. He comes over the morning of the murder after texting her to return cake pan, places cake pan on stove, starts to make moves on Nona to the point of "suiting up" then sees the bag of popcorn and drinks from Nona's date with Jones in the trash by the kitchen counter, confronts her, argument ensues, murders her, realizes he needs an alibi, turns kitchen light on(blood by that switch), grabs cake pan back(Nona's blood on stove), leaves and then texts her.

As everybody probably knows by now, I have the same questions, christina. The only thing I see missing from your list is the "spill" Trey admitted to cleaning up in his car.

[TJEddie]

The Jone's have seemed to lose everything - their business, their home, probably suspecting friends, and public image. I'm just curious - is there any payback from the legal system? If they wrongly accused him and held him on probable cause - do they pay back the $25k bond or any legal fees? Or does he have to counter-sue? How does this work?

To me, this family has proven to that they are very strong. I think if there was any doubt in Kevin Jones or lack of love in this family - they would have folded early in the case.

I've thought about that, too, nobody. The financial devastation to the Jones family has got to be enormous. I doubt the word "retirement" is in their vocabulary anymore.

[christina]

Why would Trey take the stick in this scenario?

Also, he may have an alibi that has been verified for all we know.

What specific time would he have committed this crime?

Same reason anyone else would have.

The prosecution had him on the stand as their witness, asked for his alibi but never gave proof even when they had the opportunity.

Within the 10:30-1 time frame anyone else would have.

[christina]

The stick - did it really exist? Did anybody have a picture of said stick? It is possible for there to never have been one to begin with or that it might have been thrown out in order to eventually get a new one (the apartments weren't that new so it is possible).

Trey York - He was NOT on trial. Kevin Jones was.

Jared (?) - See above.

If they were suspected then, now that the trial is over, someone should test them and redo their steps from that day.
Kevin Jones - MOO. Since the beginning of this case I have wanted Justice to be served for NONA. She was the victim and she is the one who will never get to be with her family and friends again. My
feelings are that the case wasn't presented as good as it should have been (hence "not guilty" as opposed to "innocent"). On that I believe that her family got a raw deal. I also do not like the fact that if this kid (KJ) was really that sincere about his caring and love for nona that he would be out partying and handling himself like nothing was wrong for last year and a half as has been reported and seen.

And he is not any longer. He was found not guilty. I am going on the assumption this blog is about justice for Nona and therfore am trying to move it forward to achieve that. If the people who began the blog believe Jones to be the killer and that justice for Nona is gone, then they will spin their wheels as Jones can not be tried again.

No picture of stick exists, just testimony there was one there.

Could not agree more! I am hoping another agency, and maybe even the RPD will pick up this case.

Please site your source on this fact.

[christina]

As everybody probably knows by now, I have the same questions, christina. The only thing I see missing from your list is the "spill" Trey admitted to cleaning up in his car.

Good point, that was an odd addition for York to tell in his "alibi". It could not be proved yet gives reason for why his car was cleaned out the dayof the murder. Especially when the crime scene phots show a dark substance spilled on tables at both ends of the couch, one adjacent to the slider.

[christina]

I know they sold their business but when did they sell their home? I could be wrong but they only had to pay a percent of that bond. I figure if they were going to try to get any money back they would have to sue the city/county. Why would they counter-sue Nona's family? The police and investigators are the ones who came to the conclusion that KJ did it.

Correct, the bond was $250,000 so $25,000 is that percent they paid. RUMOR is they cashed out retirement, logged their land and sold their business. As a parent though, I would think it was all worth it to them.

I believe the Jones would have to prove the police and prosecutor did something wrong, that would be hard. To the best of their abilities, they collected evidence, worked the case and came to a conclusion. They are probably covered under some statute.
Also, after the year and a half they have been through, I can not imagine being in another legal battle is appealing.
I thought it interesting that Kevin Jones and his attorney, when getting the verdict, did something as simple as spending the afternoon in the woods jumping off a low water bridge. I imagine that is the life the family wants to return to.

[optimumprimal78]

And he is not any longer. He was found not guilty. I am going on the assumption this blog is about justice for Nona and therfore am trying to move it forward to achieve that. If the people who began the blog believe Jones to be the killer and that justice for Nona is gone, then they will spin their wheels as Jones can not be tried again.

No he is not on trial any longer but he still has to face 2 things:

1. The civil trial (in there is one)
2. The cloud of "what if" everytime someone sees him in public. Even if they know of the verdict people will always wonder.

[TJEddie]

With LE at the apartment that night, and LE taking KJ from there straight to the police office how did Walker or any other classmates know anything by 10:00pm that night? This may have been discussed earlier and I just missed it - but that seems pretty fast for word to get out especially when alot of ATU students had left town to go back to their hometowns. Who told Walker anything? I don't picture KJ or RW getting to make phone calls during this time.

That's a good question Manning. Here's a snippet of a Courier article repost of Trey's testimony, taken from page 121 of this thread:

"Johnson questioned York on how he learned of Dirksmeyer’s death. York at first said he received a call from a Zack at about 10 or 10:30 p.m. Dec. 15, but didn’t take the call because it was an unknown number. He said he had a friend call the number back.
Johnson, who told jurors in opening arguments Zack Walker called York and told him Dirksmeyer was dead the night of Dec. 15, asked York to show him on York’s cell phone records when Walker called him and when he returned Walker’s call. Neither York nor Johnson seemed to be able to identify any calls from or to Walker on the records for Dec. 15.
York later said he didn’t receive a call about Dirksmeyer until the next morning."

The alleged phone call couldn't be found in Trey's phone records and Trey later changed his story.

[christina]

How can you say Trey York has no alibi "other than his word?" He was not on trial, so his alibi wasn't presented to you or the jury. I think it is careless to claim he has no alibi when you don't know if he does or not, or to what extent it has been verified.

Yes it was presented in court, by the prosecution asking him for it. Source-court record.

Reckless?-I would appreciate you not negatively characterizing me or my motives. This issue has been talked about before on this blog- The prosecution called him as their witness, they asked him for his alibi for that day, hour by hour, the defense cross examined him.The prosecution did not present any evidence when they had the chance, to prove his alibi. They obviously felt the need to question him on it as they probably knew the defense would in cross examination. I am left to assume they therefore did not have any proof. And all of this was reported on and is in the court record.

[christina]

I wonder to what extent K.Jo and Trey York knew of each other's existence. Could K.Jo have been the one making the harrassing calls to Trey's phone?

Harrassing calls-missed this-Source?

[christina]

I must not think like most 'cause if I wanted a phone call or message to suggest that I had no knowledge of something I would have left the battery on the phone. In other words I just don't see York taking the battery off.

With LE at the apartment that night, and LE taking KJ from there straight to the police office how did Walker or any other classmates know anything by 10:00pm that night? This may have been discussed earlier and I just missed it - but that seems pretty fast for word to get out especially when alot of ATU students had left town to go back to their hometowns. Who told Walker anything? I don't picture KJ or RW getting to make phone calls during this time.

Good questions. Based on the taped interview- the officers asked Jones to write down a list of Nona's friends/aquaintances for them to contact. The assumption would be they were contacting them then. Word spread very fast.
The phone was found on the floor under a table with the battery gone(Frost's testimony). IMO, if someone intentionally removed the battery, the phone would have been placed on a table/counter top. Her phone was shown in court and I had that type several years ago, the battery did come out when dropped. IMI, the phone was thrown during an argument and the battery came out, leaving with the battery was an afterthought.

[christina]

No he is not on trial any longer but he still has to face 2 things:

1. The civil trial (in there is one)
2. The cloud of "what if" everytime someone sees him in public. Even if they know of the verdict people will always wonder.

Agree on both accounts. That is why I believe it is important to keep the case active.

[christina]

I didn't read your post, so don't worry about that. I'm just very disappointed with how this forum has been moderated and manipulated.

Totally agree.

[TJEddie]

Agree on both accounts. That is why I believe it is important to keep the case active.

It seems at the very least the fingerprint/dna on the condom wrapper could be further investigated......and considered from a perspective other than "that's what sent Kevin into a jealous rage."

[christina]

Also, why would he take the phone battery and then later send a text message when he would have surely known that it wouldn't go through on her phone?

Another good question. IMO, if he is the murderer, it was for the same reason he sent the one at 12:58 "never mind" knowing she was dead.

[christina]

Perhaps we should consider the slim possibility of a serial sexual predator/murderer. I know several on this board are keeping up with the thread here about the Nina Ingram murder case in Fayetteville. Are there any similarities between these two murders? Also, has anyone heard anything about the rape of an ATU coed in her apartment a couple of weeks ago?

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showt...ht=nina+ingram

The Nina Ingram story is disconcerting.
Having a family member still attending ATU, I have been listening for any news on the reported rape. As yet, I am not sure who is investigating, the campus police , the ASP or the RPD. Anyone know?

[TJEddie]

Good questions. Based on the taped interview- the officers asked Jones to write down a list of Nona's friends/aquaintances for them to contact. The assumption would be they were contacting them then. Word spread very fast.


That's true. Yet during a courtroom examination of Trey's 12/15 phone records, no calls to Trey's phone from Zack Walker's phone could be found. I wonder if anybody checked the source of any other calls coming and going during that time period. Whatever the case, Trey apparently "cleared it all up" by simply changing his story.

[christina]

That's true. Yet during a courtroom examination of Trey's 12/15 phone records, no calls to Trey's phone from Zack Walker's phone could be found. I wonder if anybody checked the source of any other calls coming and going during that time period. Whatever the case, Trey apparently "cleared it all up" by simply changing his story.

It was not clear to me during his testimony which phone they asked about at different times. I thought at one point either he or the questioner mentioned calling from his home/parents phone.

Darn the cost of the transcipt!!!

[TJEddie]

It was not clear to me during his testimony which phone they asked about at different times. I thought at one point either he or the questioner mentioned calling from his home/parents phone.

Darn the cost of the transcipt!!!

Fair enough. I can see how the presence of land lines vs. cell phones might create confusion. But I'm still wondering why Trey's story changed on when he learned of Nona's death (per the Courier article cited in my previous post.) I mean, fer cryin' out loud, I still remember exactly where and when I first heard about Jim Croce's death! Ha!

[nobody]

Before anyone starts building a case against anyone - they need solid evidence this time (like DNA from all suspects). I would hate to see another family whipped into false accusations built around so many allegations and theory. Although York appears nervous, to which he should be, I see no hard evidence against him - just speculations.

I almost feel like the Jone's family and Dirksmeyer family deserve a public apology from the RPD and other authorities.

This community needs to come together and quit shooting from the hip.

[hawgustusgloop]

Harrassing calls-missed this-Source?

Source-court record.

How convenient!

[hawgustusgloop]

Same reason anyone else would have.

The prosecution had him on the stand as their witness, asked for his alibi but never gave proof even when they had the opportunity.

Within the 10:30-1 time frame anyone else would have.

Not true. If K.Jo did this IMO, he would take the stick to help arrange for the "discovery" of Nona's body. His reasoning wouldn't be the same as any other perp's would be.

[christina]

Not true. If K.Jo did this IMO, he would take the stick to help arrange for the "discovery" of Nona's body. His reasoning wouldn't be the same as any other perp's would be.

Both the me and the expert's me agreed stick could have been used in the attack. IMO that would leave blood and fingerprints on it. Also, it was postulated previously that the slider was the way the murderer might have left due to blood smears on the verical blinds(looking out).

[christina]

Once again, I ask that you please not put words in my mouth. I said "careless," not "reckless."

They didn't need to prove his alibi because he was not on trial. Why bring out witness after witness to corroborate his story when he is not on trial? Also, claiming things are in the the court record exactly as you represent them, just like verifying "facts" through mysterious law enforcement officers, doesn't make them true.

I stand by my statement that it is careless and even irresponsible to claim Trey York had "no alibi except his word," when you don't have access to the case file and have no idea whether he has a verifiable alibi or not.

And this isn't even a "blog," it's a message board.

Sorry, I was wrong on this, did not read it correctly.

Than why did the prosecution put him up as a witness and ask him for his alibi?

But this can be verified by you by asking someone else who was there.

This is rude. You are calling me a liar. I did verify it with law enforcement officers. yOu just chose to not beleive me.

This is also rude-It is not irresponisbile to report what was said on the stand that anyone else present, including lawyers and law enforcement can verify for you.

Sorry, my vernacular is not up to speed.

I am trying to respond/answer your posts as mine have been responded to and answered (minus the catty remarks). I am also trying to follow the rules as Loretta asked me to review them. If you have constructive criticism for me, please pm me and share it.

[christina]

Source-court record.

How convenient!

Thank you, I must have missed that in court and now can verify it. Who was receiving the harrassing calls and do you remember who testified to that?

[hawgustusgloop]

Thank you, I must have missed that in court and now can verify it. Who was receiving the harrassing calls and do you remember who testified to that?

The answer to your first question is Trey York.

The answer to your second question is: probably the same person who testified that Trey York has no alibi.

[christina]

Fair enough. I can see how the presence of land lines vs. cell phones might create confusion. But I'm still wondering why Trey's story changed on when he learned of Nona's death (per the Courier article cited in my previous post.) I mean, fer cryin' out loud, I still remember exactly where and when I first heard about Jim Croce's death! Ha!

Whoa, you have a better memory than I do!

[christina]

The answer to your first question is Trey York.

The answer to your second question is: probably the same person who testified that Trey York has no alibi.

No one at trial testified to that. Was it in a Courier report?

[hawgustusgloop]

Once again, I ask that you please not put words in my mouth. I said "careless," not "reckless."

They didn't need to prove his alibi because he was not on trial. Why bring out witness after witness to corroborate his story when he is not on trial? Also, claiming things are in the the court record exactly as you represent them, just like verifying "facts" through mysterious law enforcement officers, doesn't make them true.

I stand by my statement that it is careless and even irresponsible to claim Trey York had "no alibi except his word," when you don't have access to the case file and have no idea whether he has a verifiable alibi or not.

And this isn't even a "blog," it's a message board.

Sorry, I was wrong on this, did not read it correctly.

Than why did the prosecution put him up as a witness and ask him for his alibi?

But this can be verified by you by asking someone else who was there.

This is rude. You are calling me a liar. I did verify it with law enforcement officers. yOu just chose to not beleive me.

This is also rude-It is not irresponisbile to report what was said on the stand that anyone else present, including lawyers and law enforcement can verify for you.

Sorry, my vernacular is not up to speed.

I am trying to respond/answer your posts as mine have been responded to and answered (minus the catty remarks). I am also trying to follow the rules as Loretta asked me to review them. If you have constructive criticism for me, please pm me and share it.

I never (publicly) called you a liar or anything else on here. I do have opinions about your "facts," which I am entitled to. I am not criticizing you personally, I am criticizing the veracity of the things you are posting as "fact." I am not going to PM you.

BTW Lorettalockhorn, check your PM's!

[hawgustusgloop]

No one at trial testified to that. Was it in a Courier report?

I agree that no one testified that Trey York has no alibi.

[lorettalockhorn]

I agree that no one testified that Trey York has no alibi.

True, since York wasn't on trial, there was no reason for witnesses to be called to verify his alibi.

[lorettalockhorn]

Perhaps we should consider the slim possibility of a serial sexual predator/murderer. I know several on this board are keeping up with the thread here about the Nina Ingram murder case in Fayetteville. Are there any similarities between these two murders? Also, has anyone heard anything about the rape of an ATU coed in her apartment a couple of weeks ago?

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showt...ht=nina+ingram

I thought that sexual assault had been ruled out as a motive for Nona's murder; I suppose if LE takes a fresh look at the case, they might want to take a look at anyone who has relocated from Fayetteville to the River Valley area.

[lorettalockhorn]

My interpretation is that when other suspects are brought up and addresses seriously, you think this board is being manipulated.

I disagree, but that's an easy way to try and eliminate posters and topics that don't share your beliefs about Kevin.

I could easily say this board has been manipulated by the "lynch Kevin" crowd. Instead, I try to raise questions to make that crowd think.

Well, as one who originally thought that KJ was guilty, then was appalled at the investigation and waited for the blood evidence and alibi to be presented at trial, I can honestly say that the Lynch Mob has pretty much stuck to the few facts that were published by the media. There have been rumors by each side, very few posters have insisted that rumors are indeed fact.

[LurkerNoMore]

True, since York wasn't on trial, there was no reason for witnesses to be called to verify his alibi.

Since it was clear that the defense was attempting to cast suspicion York's way, wouldn't the State want to establish how York was ruled out as a suspect?

If York had an alibi, why didn't they show it?

Phillips and Gibbons are good enough attorneys that, if this was available, they would have used it. IMO. Establishing how Trey was ruled out as a suspect would have made it look like the defense, was, as some contend, just using Trey as a smokescreen.

[lorettalockhorn]

The Jone's have seemed to lose everything - their business, their home, probably suspecting friends, and public image. I'm just curious - is there any payback from the legal system? If they wrongly accused him and held him on probable cause - do they pay back the $25k bond or any legal fees? Or does he have to counter-sue? How does this work?

To me, this family has proven to that they are very strong. I think if there was any doubt in Kevin Jones or lack of love in this family - they would have folded early in the case.


From what I heard, the assets that the Joneses sold would have had to have been on the block for some time. Timber, for instance cannot be sold at the drop of the hat, it is a very entailed process.

The Joneses were only required to pay $25,000 in cash, an amount that many families might have readily available in a contingency fund. $22,500 of that amount was to be refunded when/if KJ was acquitted.

(Don't know what made me think of this, but doesn't AAA have a program whereas they put up your bond if you are a member and arrested? Wonder if that includes first degree murder.)

Agree that the Joneses appear to be a strong family and may well be tighter knit than before.

[lorettalockhorn]

That's a good question Manning. Here's a snippet of a Courier article repost of Trey's testimony, taken from page 121 of this thread:

"Johnson questioned York on how he learned of Dirksmeyer’s death. York at first said he received a call from a Zack at about 10 or 10:30 p.m. Dec. 15, but didn’t take the call because it was an unknown number. He said he had a friend call the number back.
Johnson, who told jurors in opening arguments Zack Walker called York and told him Dirksmeyer was dead the night of Dec. 15, asked York to show him on York’s cell phone records when Walker called him and when he returned Walker’s call. Neither York nor Johnson seemed to be able to identify any calls from or to Walker on the records for Dec. 15.
York later said he didn’t receive a call about Dirksmeyer until the next morning."

The alleged phone call couldn't be found in Trey's phone records and Trey later changed his story.

I haven't seen a transcript of any testimony, but the TV news reported that Walker testified that he ["communicated" to York that Nona had been found in a pool of blood the night of the 15th. He didn't recall telling York that Nona was dead until between ten and eleven the morning of the 16th. Not sure what was meant by "communicated", suppose that could be in person, phone call, text message, email, etc.

[lorettalockhorn]

Once again, I ask that you please not put words in my mouth. I said "careless," not "reckless."

They didn't need to prove his alibi because he was not on trial. Why bring out witness after witness to corroborate his story when he is not on trial? Also, claiming things are in the the court record exactly as you represent them, just like verifying "facts" through mysterious law enforcement officers, doesn't make them true.

I stand by my statement that it is careless and even irresponsible to claim Trey York had "no alibi except his word," when you don't have access to the case file and have no idea whether he has a verifiable alibi or not.

And this isn't even a "blog," it's a message board.

Sorry, I was wrong on this, did not read it correctly.

Than why did the prosecution put him up as a witness and ask him for his alibi?

But this can be verified by you by asking someone else who was there.

This is rude. You are calling me a liar. I did verify it with law enforcement officers. yOu just chose to not beleive me.

This is also rude-It is not irresponisbile to report what was said on the stand that anyone else present, including lawyers and law enforcement can verify for you.

Sorry, my vernacular is not up to speed.

I am trying to respond/answer your posts as mine have been responded to and answered (minus the catty remarks). I am also trying to follow the rules as Loretta asked me to review them. If you have constructive criticism for me, please pm me and share it.

I thought that York was called as a witness to establish the timeline, i.e. to substantiate Nona's billing/call record.

My comment about the rules yesterday was that I was going to study them again.

[sololobo]

I thought that sexual assault had been ruled out as a motive for Nona's murder; I suppose if LE takes a fresh look at the case, they might want to take a look at anyone who has relocated from Fayetteville to the River Valley area.

There were no signs of rape in the Nina murder also. The Fayetteville police evidently investigated sex offenders in the area, though. The Nina murder ocurred after Nona's so perhaps someone who relocated from Russellville to Fayetteville.

[hawgustusgloop]

The Jone's have seemed to lose everything - their business, their home, probably suspecting friends, and public image. I'm just curious - is there any payback from the legal system? If they wrongly accused him and held him on probable cause - do they pay back the $25k bond or any legal fees? Or does he have to counter-sue? How does this work?

To me, this family has proven to that they are very strong. I think if there was any doubt in Kevin Jones or lack of love in this family - they would have folded early in the case.

I do think they have proven that they are very strong. However, in that interview with JJones that was posted, she seemed more relieved at the not guilty verdict and appreciative of the attorneys and their friends who stuck by them. She struck me as much more grateful for her son not being in jail than upset at what the monetary costs were. She seemed much more thankful for their supporters than worried about the suspicion of others. I can really admire her positive and grateful attitude in that interview. I would probably be a lot more bitter and angry if I believed my child was innocent and we were finally vindicated after spending tons of $$$$$ on a defense. My interviews would probably need to be heavily censored.

I have no idea what their possible legal recourse is, or whether it might or might not be worth it for them to pursue it. Does anyone know?

[lorettalockhorn]

There were no signs of rape in the Nina murder also. The Fayetteville police evidently investigated sex offenders in the area, though. The Nina murder ocurred after Nona's so perhaps someone who relocated from Russellville to Fayetteville.


Someone who then re-relocated back to the River Valley to commit the ATU rape?

[hawgustusgloop]

There were no signs of rape in the Nina murder also. The Fayetteville police evidently investigated sex offenders in the area, though. The Nina murder ocurred after Nona's so perhaps someone who relocated from Russellville to Fayetteville.

I don't personally feel like the two cases are related, but there is just SO LITTLE information available publicly about Nina's case and the crime scene that it is hard to make many comparisons.

[lorettalockhorn]

Since it was clear that the defense was attempting to cast suspicion York's way, wouldn't the State want to establish how York was ruled out as a suspect?

If York had an alibi, why didn't they show it?

Phillips and Gibbons are good enough attorneys that, if this was available, they would have used it. IMO. Establishing how Trey was ruled out as a suspect would have made it look like the defense, was, as some contend, just using Trey as a smokescreen.

My understanding was that York was called to the stand to testify to the timeline. I believe that he established that. Apparently his "lack of alibi" didn't totally awe the jury, as it was Jared? whom they wanted to investigate while supposedly deliberating.

[oxfordwebster]

My understanding was that York was called to the stand to testify to the timeline. I believe that he established that. Apparently his "lack or alibi" didn't totally awe the jury, as it was Jared? that they wanted to investigate while supposedly deliberating.Exactly.

Who knows what they jury was looking at, because it wasn't the expert testimony ("opinions").

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't personally feel like the two cases are related, but there is just SO LITTLE information available publicly about Nina's case and the crime scene that it is hard to make many comparisons.

I haven't kept up with the NI case. I guess I could study it while we wait for some facts to come out about other suspects in Nona's case.

[oxfordwebster]

I heard a rumor that the jury is full of superintelligent beings that can make no mistakes, and that Kevin's "not guilty" verdict means that it was impossible for him to truly be guilty.

Also, another rumor is that he can, in fact, manipulate the flow of blood to avoid all other clotted blood allowing him to leave prints in nothing but fresh blood.

I confirmed all of this with a source, so please take it as fact.

[sololobo]

Someone who then re-relocated back to the River Valley to commit the ATU rape?

Hmmmm.....School in Fayetteville was out for Christmas break when Nona was killed. School in Fayetteville was in session when Nina was killed and school in Fayetteville was out when the ATU rape occurred. A student at Fayetteville who lives in Russellville? Nope, sounds too complicated.

[hawgustusgloop]

I haven't kept up with the NI case. I guess I could study it while we wait for some facts to come out about other suspects in Nona's case.

I took an interest in it because I once lived in the same apartments where it occurred. There just hasn't been much info released about it in the news, and the most recent (but still old) articles make it seem like police aren't much closer to solving it than they were when it happened.

[hawgustusgloop]

Exactly.

Who knows what they jury was looking at, because it wasn't the expert testimony ("opinions").

I was thinking about this last night. It would be very hard for me to discount the expert testimony that K.Jo's print was made in fresh, uncoagulated blood, especially after the defense's expert IMO inadvertently ended up supporting the prosecution expert's assertions about the coagulation with his botched experiments. To my knowledge, there was nobody specifically refuting what the prosecution's expert said, as in no one said, "it is my expert opinion that this was not fresh blood and that it has obvious evidence of coagulation." The only refutation I am aware of is along the lines of, "well, maybe it is possible some fresh blood ran out," from a defense witness saying he'd seen it happen before in his eons of experience (even though surely he didn't do scientific testing on THAT blood at the time to see if it showed signs of coagulation).

I would be very curious to know how long the jury discussed this particular piece of evidence and how they were able to come to the conclusion that there was reasonable doubt on this particular issue, since they seemed to think there was reasonable doubt with "everything" the prosecution presented. I may have misunderstood the testimony and evidence, but it seems pretty damning, and the defense experts seemed far from convincing IMO.

[christina]

I was thinking about this last night. It would be very hard for me to discount the expert testimony that K.Jo's print was made in fresh, uncoagulated blood, especially after the defense's expert IMO inadvertently ended up supporting the prosecution expert's assertions about the coagulation with his botched experiments. To my knowledge, there was nobody specifically refuting what the prosecution's expert said, as in no one said, "it is my expert opinion that this was not fresh blood and that it has obvious evidence of coagulation." The only refutation I am aware of is along the lines of, "well, maybe it is possible some fresh blood ran out," from a defense witness saying he'd seen it happen before in his eons of experience (even though surely he didn't do scientific testing on THAT blood at the time to see if it showed signs of coagulation).

I would be very curious to know how long the jury discussed this particular piece of evidence and how they were able to come to the conclusion that there was reasonable doubt on this particular issue, since they seemed to think there was reasonable doubt with "everything" the prosecution presented. I may have misunderstood the testimony and evidence, but it seems pretty damning, and the defense experts seemed far from convincing IMO.

My take on the jury is that they came to the trial fresh. They had no preconceived ideas of guilt. They listened and read only what was put before them. This would include Jarod's texts as they were part of the cell phone bills presented to them in print.
They took to heart the belief that someone is innocent until proven guilty.

[hawgustusgloop]

I heard a rumor that the jury is full of superintelligent beings that can make no mistakes, and that Kevin's "not guilty" verdict means that it was impossible for him to truly be guilty.

Also, another rumor is that he can, in fact, manipulate the flow of blood to avoid all other clotted blood allowing him to leave prints in nothing but fresh blood.

I confirmed all of this with a source, so please take it as fact.

Source, please? I believe that you confirmed it with your source, but I won't accept it as fact until you either tell me you heard it from an unnamed county employee or a member of law enforcement or unless you claim it is in the court record. Thank you in advance.

[oxfordwebster]

My take on the jury is that they came to the trial fresh. They had no preconceived ideas of guilt. They listened and read only what was put before them. This would include Jarod's texts as they were part of the cell phone bills presented to them in print.
They took to heart the belief that someone is innocent until proven guilty.How does this answer, at all, what hawg wrote? Why is it that not a single person in defense of this verdict can explain away the bloody print? It's so tiring to see this ignored every... single... time.

"The jury wasn't convinced so that's that" doesn't cut it and never will.

[oxfordwebster]

Source, please? I believe that you confirmed it with your source, but I won't accept it as fact until you either tell me you heard it from an unnamed county employee or a member of law enforcement or unless you claim it is in the court record. Thank you in advance.:beer:

;)

[hawgustusgloop]

How does this answer, at all, what hawg wrote? Why is it that not a single person in defense of this verdict can explain away the bloody print? It's so tiring to see this ignored every... single... time.

"The jury wasn't convinced so that's that" doesn't cut it and never will.

Unfortunately, it doesn't answer it at all. Actually, the notion that the jury came into the courtroom with no preconceived ideas IMO should cause them to focus more on the empirical evidence available to them rather than emotional testimony and nonscientific explanations for scientific evidence.

[lorettalockhorn]

How does this answer, at all, what hawg wrote? Why is it that not a single person in defense of this verdict can explain away the bloody print? It's so tiring to see this ignored every... single... time.

"The jury wasn't convinced so that's that" doesn't cut it and never will.

When it came time to answer to the media (and I realize that no one was obligated to speak publicly), that the foreperson said that the jury disregarded everything that the prosecution presented, threw out opinions, which may or may not have included the expert testimony, and then turned the spotlight on her own personal relationship with God, I wasn't a bit surprised with the verdict.

In my mind, the jury simply didn't spend enough time on the case and I don't think that I will ever believe that unclotted blood could have been transferred along with Kevin's print but without cat hair, brain matter, etc.

[TJEddie]

How does this answer, at all, what hawg wrote? Why is it that not a single person in defense of this verdict can explain away the bloody print? It's so tiring to see this ignored every... single... time.

"The jury wasn't convinced so that's that" doesn't cut it and never will.

IMO, the defense saved their best for last in Jim Lordison's testimony. From the Courier, July 19:

"According to LORDISON’s testimony, Johnson reminded the jury, the palm print is in fact just as consistent with having been placed at the time of discovery of the body, given that “clotted” or coagulated blood will stick to carpet and hair, making any blood transferred seem “fresh” as the transfer consists only of serum and red blood cells."

As Kevin tried to elicit a response from Nona, it seems very likely that he would have touched her head/hair. Blood transfer from Nona's hair would likely not have contained cat hair, carpet fiber, etc. Presto....Kevin's print in seemingly "fresh" and uncontaminated blood on the bulb. (I've described elsewhere how I think Kevin could have easily touched the bulb as he grappled to turn Nona's body over....perhaps without even realizing it.)

Oh, and as best I can tell, the prosecution's "rebuttal" to Lordison's testimony consisted of little more than calling him a liar. Pretty weak, IMO.

So there you have it, oxford. Your question has no longer been ignored every....single.....time. I gave it a shot.

[oxfordwebster]

So there you have it, oxford. Your question has no longer been ignored every....single.....time. I gave it a shot.Oh, great. The "touching carpet or hair with clotted blood on your hands magically removes all signs of coagulation from the blood allowing a perceived print in nothing but 'fresh' blood to be made" defense.

That explanation was laughable when Lordison gave it and it's laughable now that anyone could still take it seriously. Just because you can parrot a defense witness doesn't mean that I've been answered.

[Manning]

I took an interest in it because I once lived in the same apartments where it occurred. There just hasn't been much info released about it in the news, and the most recent (but still old) articles make it seem like police aren't much closer to solving it than they were when it happened.

Maybe the RPD can go up there and help them out.

[lorettalockhorn]

Maybe the RPD can go up there and help them out.

Non sequitur? or what? :confused:

[TJEddie]

Oh, great. The "touching carpet or hair with clotted blood on your hands magically removes all signs of coagulation from the blood allowing a perceived print in nothing but 'fresh' blood to be made" defense.

That explanation was laughable when Lordison gave it and it's laughable now that anyone could still take it seriously. Just because you can parrot a defense witness doesn't mean that I've been answered.

Your paraphrasing of Dr. Lordison's testimony is incorrect.

And what exactly is it that makes the testimony of Alabama's retired chief medical examiner laughable? Did I miss some whiz-bang impeachment of his testimony? Did someone reveal that he got his medical degree from a mail order catalogue or something? Please fill me in.....inquiring minds want to know.

[lorettalockhorn]

Your paraphrasing of Dr. Lordison's testimony is incorrect.

And what exactly is it that makes the testimony of Alabama's retired chief medical examiner laughable? Did I miss some whiz-bang impeachment of his testimony? Did someone reveal that he got his medical degree from a mail order catalogue or something? Please fill me in.....inquiring minds want to know.


Is Lordison better qualified than Kokes? Should we take any of his testimony more seriously than Kokes'? Although I wholeheartedly agree with his comment that the ideal situation would have been for a pathologist to have been on the scene.

(Can anyone tell me why our coroner didn't take a body temperature in order to help establish a time of death? Besides the fact that cornoners are generally speaking an antiquated waste of tax payer's money in a situation like this?)

[oxfordwebster]

Your paraphrasing of Dr. Lordison's testimony is incorrect.No, it's not. Kevin touching Nona's hair would not remove all signs of coagulated blood from the blood on his hands because things don't work as perfectly as you'd like to think.

[upallnight]

RPD didn't keep Kevin from contacting Nona's family, the restraining order did. I've filed information for restraining orders on behalf of many people, and the signature of the applicant is required. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the Dirksmeyer/Dipert family at some point requested a restraining order through the prosecuting attorney's office, don't know the date it was issued, or the time period covered. RPD's role would be to enforce the order if it was breached in the city limits.

The mayor has no business speaking about this, IMO. We were told that several different agencies were working on this case; the liaison of those agencies would be the one to speak, and of course that wouldn't be possible after the gag order was in effect. (It has already been pointed out that Rae Turner, mother of Bubba Turner was mayor at the time.) With regard to rumor and divisiveness, there are minimally two communities involved; three, if you count Tech as a community; four, if you count this board, etc.

Are you talking about at the funeral here: My only knowledge is that Kevin was not allowed to sit with Nona's family (a push away). Is it possible that pallbearers sat elsewhere during the funeral? Is it possible that there was a contingent of KJ's family or friends, schoolmates that sat together away from Nona's family?Is it possible that the family had information or suspicions about KJ before the funeral that would cause them to want to distance themselves?

Nona's family was told Kevin was a suspect the day of the funeral, Nona's family requested he not be allowed to sit with them. This was reported in a local paper a long time ago. I don't remember if it was the courier or the Dover Times. I do remember it though.

[TJEddie]

No, it's not. Kevin touching Nona's hair would not remove all signs of coagulated blood from the blood on his hands because things don't work as perfectly as you'd like to think.

Dr. Lordison's testimony (as reported by the Courier) does not imply that hair will remove coagulation from blood on a person's hands. His testimony addresses what will transfer onto a person's hands when they touch blood that has coagulated in hair or carpet.

And with that, I'm off to bed......nite all.....

[lorettalockhorn]

Nona's family was told Kevin was a suspect the day of the funeral, Nona's family requested he not be allowed to sit with them. This was reported in a local paper a long time ago. I don't remember if it was the courier or the Dover Times. I do remember it though.

Upallnight, I see that you quoted me here, but someone else made this statement: Are you talking about at the funeral here: My only knowledge is that Kevin was not allowed to sit with Nona's family (a push away).

Yes, I've read that KJ didn't sit with the family; but have never read that he wasn't allowed to sit with the family. Was that actually reported?

[upallnight]

Upallnight, I see that you quoted me here, but someone else made this statement: Are you talking about at the funeral here: My only knowledge is that Kevin was not allowed to sit with Nona's family (a push away).

Yes, I've read that KJ didn't sit with the family; but have never read that he wasn't allowed to sit with the family. Was that actually reported?

Yes, it was, just don't remember which paper it was in, but that is what was reported.

[oxfordwebster]

Dr. Lordison's testimony (as reported by the Courier) does not imply that hair will remove coagulation from blood on a person's hands. His testimony addresses what will transfer onto a person's hands when they touch blood that has coagulated in hair or carpet.And that exonerates Kevin, how? How exactly does that explain that Kevin's print was in nothing but fresh blood and left at the time of "discovery"?

[upallnight]

Yes, it was, just don't remember which paper it was in, but that is what was reported.


Nona's brother also made some public statements, I am not sure who made the statement it was so long ago but her brother was very verbal pre gag order. It may have been him that made the statement but the family was told the day of the funeral and made the request for Kevin not to be allowed to sit by them. That had to be hard on Nona's family. I do remember her brother making the statement why could'nt he have just killed her, why did he have to beat her up. Seems cruel but when I look at what came out in the trial, she seemed to have been tortured and that made it worse I am sure. Death is bad enough but the way the murder was explained by the Pro. & Def., she must have been terrified and he also said that pre gag order but I think that was on TV.

[lorettalockhorn]

Yes, it was, just don't remember which paper it was in, but that is what was reported.

Well, that's funny. I just don't remember it being reported that he wasn't allowed to sit with the family. I should try to find that.

[upallnight]

Well, that's funny. I just don't remember it being reported that he wasn't allowed to sit with the family. I should try to find that.


Honestly, you may want to check the TV reports, it may have been on TV. I think (but not sure) her brothers name is Greg, and he spoke on TV, he did not appear, it was via phone or something. This may have been in the same interview, I only remember it being said. I also remember my mom calling after hearing it and she called me so it must have been on TV or otherwise she would not have known.

[upallnight]

Honestly, you may want to check the TV reports, it may have been on TV. I think (but not sure) her brothers name is Greg, and he spoke on TV, he did not appear, it was via phone or something. This may have been in the same interview, I only remember it being said. I also remember my mom calling after hearing it and she called me so it must have been on TV or otherwise she would not have known.

Nite nite:rose:

[jonikay]

Well, that's funny. I just don't remember it being reported that he wasn't allowed to sit with the family. I should try to find that.
CWArkansas.com:

Friday morning an arrest warrant was issued for the same man at the other end of the line. Nona Dirksmeyer's high school sweetheart, Kevin Jones was charged with 1st degree murder.

Friday morning at 11, Jones turned himself into police custody after being charged with the December 15th murder of Nona Dirksmeyer.

“Anxious and stressful... We knew how the suspect was the day before the funeral,” said Nona's mother, Carol Dipert.

In Russellville, both friends and family reacted to the news.

“We told the funeral people that we don't want him sitting next to us," said Duane Dipert.

I'm sure you can find it in the Courier, etc. I googled it, it was first on the list. I remember it from long ago as well.

[lorettalockhorn]

Honestly, you may want to check the TV reports, it may have been on TV. I think (but not sure) her brothers name is Greg, and he spoke on TV, he did not appear, it was via phone or something. This may have been in the same interview, I only remember it being said. I also remember my mom calling after hearing it and she called me so it must have been on TV or otherwise she would not have known.

Well, jk has it quick like a rabbit! I do remember reading about the funeral and I do remember an interview, that I thought was in The Courier.

[lorettalockhorn]

CWArkansas.com:

Friday morning an arrest warrant was issued for the same man at the other end of the line. Nona Dirksmeyer's high school sweetheart, Kevin Jones was charged with 1st degree murder.

Friday morning at 11, Jones turned himself into police custody after being charged with the December 15th murder of Nona Dirksmeyer.

“Anxious and stressful... We knew how the suspect was the day before the funeral,” said Nona's mother, Carol Dipert.

In Russellville, both friends and family reacted to the news.

“We told the funeral people that we don't want him sitting next to us," said Duane Dipert.

I'm sure you can find it in the Courier, etc. I googled it, it was first on the list. I remember it from long ago as well.

Thanks, jk. I don't remember ever reading that quote from DD.

The Courier has done a really good job of getting their archives in order I've noticed here lately.

[upallnight]

Well, jk has it quick like a rabbit! I do remember reading about the funeral and I do remember an interview, that I thought was in The Courier.


Here is part of what is in the full story following it in the courier. They actually found out the night before the funeral that Kevin was a suspect, and requested him not to sit with them.


The Diperts not only endured Nona's tragedy, but they buried her knowing her longtime boyfriend was a suspect, and they couldn't say anything about it.
"During the funeral we knew he was a suspect, and we requested for him not to sit with the family. Members of the Russellville Police Department visited us the night before the funeral (Dec. 21) and said that Kevin (Jones) was a suspect," Duane told The Courier in his living room as he watched Friday's press conference. "It was difficult to have that information as time passed and the investigation went on."


Full story below

Saturday, July 28, 2007
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Story Date: Saturday, April 1, 2006

Nona's family reacts to the news

By Scott Perkins/
Editor
Friday's intermittent weather of rain and shine mirrored Carol and Duane Dipert's mixed emotions as the events unfolded in the murder investigation of their daughter NONA DIRKSMEYER, 19.
The Diperts have remained patient for more than 100 days since their daughter was discovered dead in her Russellville apartment. Both of them said Friday they were glad the case has entered another phase and extended their thoughts to the family of the suspect.
"Right now, we're relieved an arrest has been made," Duane Dipert, Nona's stepfather, said. "Our sympathies go to the Jones family and friends. While the worst has already happened to us in the death of Nona, the worst is just beginning for the Jones family."
Carol Dipert said Kevin and Nona had been in a relationship for about five years and had planned on getting married.
"Nona told me that marriage was something they wanted to do, and Kevin wanted to wait to get a ring that Nona could be proud of," Carol said. "I liked Kevin, and through the years, I looked at him like he was my son."
"I'm glad an arrest has been made," Greg Dirksmeyer, Nona's brother, said. "It's just so sad. I still shed tears everyday when I see her pictures or hear my kids express their feelings for a person they cared for very much."
Both of Nona's parents said they would have never imagined Jones could have possibly been a suspect.
"He was the last person I thought would be a suspect," Carol said.
The Diperts not only endured Nona's tragedy, but they buried her knowing her longtime boyfriend was a suspect, and they couldn't say anything about it.
"During the funeral we knew he was a suspect, and we requested for him not to sit with the family. Members of the Russellville Police Department visited us the night before the funeral (Dec. 21) and said that Kevin (Jones) was a suspect," Duane told The Courier in his living room as he watched Friday's press conference. "It was difficult to have that information as time passed and the investigation went on."
The investigation carried on for 106 days and faced massive criticism from numerous sources and was riddled with rumors.
"Kevin was one of the last people we thought could be suspect. I can assure you, it was like a double blow to us to find out that Kevin was a suspect. He was a person that Carol had known for years and someone she trusted."
As the investigation continued, residents began to speculate about authorities' silence in the case and questioned if the Diperts were in communication with investigators.
"We'd like to thank the Russellville Police Department and the prosecutor's office for their thorough work and arresting the suspect," Duane said. "Detective Mark Frost of the Russellville Police Department and David Gibbons, prosecuting attorney, have been in contact with Carol and I about once per week since Nona's murder."
The Diperts shared their relief Friday with members of the media, however they again said the case is just entering another phase.
"The police, especially Mark Frost, have been exceptionally thorough in this case. Mark, David Gibbons and Chief (James) Bacon assured us that they had resources at the state and federal levels that they could call upon when needed. And they did."
Duane said not a day nor even a minute goes by he and Carol don't think about Nona.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright 2007 Russellville Newspapers, Inc.

Got to get to sleep, hope this helps.

[upallnight]

CWArkansas.com:

Friday morning an arrest warrant was issued for the same man at the other end of the line. Nona Dirksmeyer's high school sweetheart, Kevin Jones was charged with 1st degree murder.

Friday morning at 11, Jones turned himself into police custody after being charged with the December 15th murder of Nona Dirksmeyer.

“Anxious and stressful... We knew how the suspect was the day before the funeral,” said Nona's mother, Carol Dipert.

In Russellville, both friends and family reacted to the news.

“We told the funeral people that we don't want him sitting next to us," said Duane Dipert.

I'm sure you can find it in the Courier, etc. I googled it, it was first on the list. I remember it from long ago as well.

Thanks for the help Jonikay, wish I knew you, you seem to be so up to date on this case!:seeya: Nite to all! Really this time, lights out for me, I'm to old for this late night stuff.

[sololobo]

"Prosecutors in the State v. Kevin Jones murder trial called several witnesses Thursday morning in an attempt to dismantle Jones’ alibi and to prove he had time to kill Nona DIRKSMEYER some time between 11 a.m. and noon on Dec. 15, 2005." Courier

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15379&Search=dirksmeyer

How did the prosecution set the lower limit of 11:00 am? Did Kevin's cell phone ping a Dover tower just before or at that time?

[nobody]

I took an interest in it because I once lived in the same apartments where it occurred. There just hasn't been much info released about it in the news, and the most recent (but still old) articles make it seem like police aren't much closer to solving it than they were when it happened.

Some reports conflicted on those apartment layouts - maybe you can answer a question for me. Did the Sliding Glass door open to the kitchen or living room? Can you explain the layout, somehow - for us?

[sololobo]

Some reports conflicted on those apartment layouts - maybe you can answer a question for me. Did the Sliding Glass door open to the kitchen or living room? Can you explain the layout, somehow - for us?

The sliding door opened into the living room. The kitchen and staircase was near the front door.

[hawgustusgloop]

Some reports conflicted on those apartment layouts - maybe you can answer a question for me. Did the Sliding Glass door open to the kitchen or living room? Can you explain the layout, somehow - for us?

We were talking about the Nina Ingram case in Fayetteville earlier when I said I used to live in THOSE apartments. I never lived in the apartments Nona lived in.

[nobody]

I can tell you that the Courier reporter went over and chatted Carol Dipert up again today. I have not seen her speak to the Jones family the entire trial.

Did we get a fair shake - in the reporting?

[christina]

I am been perusing the CL site and found this article. It sounds like a conglomeration of other articles. Here is the link;

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=283600


According to the jurors that spoke with the media, the evidence was too circumstantial to merit a conviction.

"There just wasn't enough evidence to convict Jones," juror Kevin Cobb told the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette.

Juror Kim Willhite, a Spanish teacher at Alma High School, echoed Kevin's statement during an interview with Todaysthv.com.

"The biggest thing was praying every night that I would listen and understand," she said. "You can't imagine the amount of evidence we had to go through. Everything the prosecution introduced, there was reasonable doubt and you knew there were things that weren't there; there were so many holes."

On Friday Russellville Police Chief Tom McMillen issued a press release in which he stated his department will be "evaluating and debriefing on the Nona Dirksmeyer case; however, any future action on this case will be at the discretion of the prosecuting attorney. Our condolences go out to the victim's family."

A spokesperson for Nona's family has announced that they will be filing a civil suit against Jones.

[christina]

Did we get a fair shake - in the reporting?

And don't forget Ginoccio handing a large package to Carol Dipert in the courtroom as well.

In my opinion no we did not get a fair shake from the Courier. Ginoccio was partial/biased from the beginning. This is evidenced in her article about the girl that lied about the rape at the Whitesides house. She put Jones name on the front page in that article for no reason. She and the Courier are in a law suit about that.
Then she came on this site posting as 2 people, herself and lemoncello. In the change of venue hearing she admitted on the stand that she lied as lemoncello about being abused herself because "it was for a future book". Then a laywer stood up and said there was a pending lawsuit about that as well and she would not be able to answer any more quesitons.
But the Courier chose to keep this reporter with an obvious bias, involved in two lawsuits, reporting on this trial.

[christina]

"Prosecutors in the State v. Kevin Jones murder trial called several witnesses Thursday morning in an attempt to dismantle Jones’ alibi and to prove he had time to kill Nona DIRKSMEYER some time between 11 a.m. and noon on Dec. 15, 2005." Courier

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15379&Search=dirksmeyer

How did the prosecution set the lower limit of 11:00 am? Did Kevin's cell phone ping a Dover tower just before or at that time?

Not that I wrote a note on, they set the time based on Nona's cell phone. She received a text at 11:05 that was opened but not responded to. When the ME for the state testified, he set the tod at 10:30-1. When asked by the defense why the 10:30 he said he was told by the prosecution that was the last phone conversation she had(with a teacher).

[christina]

Some reports conflicted on those apartment layouts - maybe you can answer a question for me. Did the Sliding Glass door open to the kitchen or living room? Can you explain the layout, somehow - for us?

The front door opens to a hallway that leads to the living room. The slider is straight ahead on the opposite outside wall. To the right of the door is the staircase to the upstairs. Under the stairs is a laundry room/bathrroom. If standing at the front door, there is an opening to your left that is a dining area(the front window is there). The dining area is open to the kitchen which opens to the living area at the other end.
Hope this helps.

[christina]

Oh, great. The "touching carpet or hair with clotted blood on your hands magically removes all signs of coagulation from the blood allowing a perceived print in nothing but 'fresh' blood to be made" defense.

That explanation was laughable when Lordison gave it and it's laughable now that anyone could still take it seriously. Just because you can parrot a defense witness doesn't mean that I've been answered.

But it does mean that the people defending Jones print being placed at the time of the discovery has been answered. TJ and others, myslelf included have answered our understanding/conclusion to this. You can not agree with our view, but please stop telling us we haven't answered you.

[nobody]

Referred to my notes of the opening statements. This is what Gibbons said that Kevin said while alone in the interrogation room:
"Keep her with the angels. She was a good soul, Lord. She didn't mean any harm. Screw the f... Please keep her safe, please Lord. I am so sorry."

Thinking back to this discussion: I think of F*cker as being a masculine term. It would be awkward for me to refer to a female as this. I can think of much better words for disliked women. (i.e. B*tch, Sl*t, Wh*re). So - if he said this, I would think he was referring to a man.

That's just my take on "F*cker" - if that is what he said. All the judge ever heard was "Lord" - it was the prosecution that claimed hearing his statement in the muffled recording.

[optimumprimal78]

And don't forget Ginoccio handing a large package to Carol Dipert in the courtroom as well.

In my opinion no we did not get a fair shake from the Courier. Ginoccio was partial/biased from the beginning. This is evidenced in her article about the girl that lied about the rape at the Whitesides house. She put Jones name on the front page in that article for no reason. She and the Courier are in a law suit about that.
Then she came on this site posting as 2 people, herself and lemoncello. In the change of venue hearing she admitted on the stand that she lied as lemoncello about being abused herself because "it was for a future book". Then a laywer stood up and said there was a pending lawsuit about that as well and she would not be able to answer any more quesitons.
But the Courier chose to keep this reporter with an obvious bias, involved in two lawsuits, reporting on this trial.

But the Dover Paper having next to nothing because they might be close to the Jones' isn't bias at all. Right?

[nobody]

There were two hours between York's time that he completed his ATU exam. He said he finished the exam around 11:00. Records show that he text messaged Nona around 10:58 (which makes sense). The message is opened. He said he was in his room, packing, at the time of the text.

After last-minute packing and signing out of his dorm room, he then drives to Hastings to return a movie (4 miles). - maybe this is when he notices his gas is low.

Following Hastings, he then turns back around and drives back to the exit of the college (4 miles). (Two hours later) At the Exxon, he says he text messaged Nona with "Nevermind" - the message is not opened. Then he begins his drive home (224 miles) - passing the exit to Hastings.

- not a logical pattern, but I guess we have to take into consideration that he is not from Russellville.

[christina]

Thinking back to this discussion: I think of F*cker as being a masculine term. It would be awkward for me to refer to a female as this. I can think of much better words for disliked women. (i.e. B*tch, Sl*t, Wh*re). So - if he said this, I would think he was referring to a man.

That's just my take on "F*cker" - if that is what he said. All the judge ever heard was "Lord" - it was the prosecution that claimed hearing his statement in the muffled recording.

Correct. I was in the court room when the prosecution played the enhanced version of the tape(jury was gone. They had played the full version, un-enhanced earlier that day for the jury). The judge made everyone present be quiet as it was played. Non one could make out what was said. The prosecutor then played a section, told us what he thought was said, then play the next section and did the same. The judge told them he could not hear anything but the word Lord and that this would be prejudicial since the jury would have to be told by the prosecutor what was being said. Further reasoning by the judge- they had heard it on their own once, and would be able to take the tape into the jury room for deliberations and hear it there again. Rumor was the prosecution paid a lot to get that enhanced.
The defense also contended in opening that the prosecution paid a lot to send off a pair of shoes with blood on them that Jones had supposedly dropped at Marva after the murder. The report came back that it was animal blood on the bottom of Jones' father's shoes. I would like to see the date on that report as another rumor is, Gibbons waited to file charges until he received that report. I could understand that as if it had come back the way he wanted it to, it would have been damning evidence.

[christina]

But the Dover Paper having next to nothing because they might be close to the Jones' isn't bias at all. Right?

I thought Nona graduated from Dover too and her mom lived there up until she married Dipert.
But, sorry, I can't speak about the reporter from the Dover paper. Don't get the paper an don't know who they are. The bulk of the reporting was done though by the Courier. Understandably so since they are a 6 day a week paper versus a once a week paper in Dover.

[christina]

I have been researching the Court TV and the Crime Library histories and boards after being told some rumors about who owns/runs them.
Came across some interesting and funny stuff out there.
A group called the **** Pack started a board/blog to discuss some cases claiming CTV and CL were squashing their rights to free speech. Some of their stuff is a bit radical, some seems close to what has been seen here.
Their site is ********.com

[nobody]

The defense also contended in opening that the prosecution paid a lot to send off a pair of shoes with blood on them that Jones had supposedly dropped at Marva after the murder. The report came back that it was animal blood on the bottom of Jones' father's shoes. I would like to see the date on that report as another rumor is, Gibbons waited to file charges until he received that report. I could understand that as if it had come back the way he wanted it to, it would have been damning evidence.

Can you get proof of any of the Marva drop-off information? Just the fact that he did go to Marva's with clothes from his house and that the Prosecution found this material. I would like to add this to the "Facts Only" thread - if available.

[christina]

Now that is really funny/odd. I tried typing the name of the site in twice and each time it came back with asteriks, even after I tried to edit it!
So, spelling it out using the military code- frank romeo alpha tango

[christina]

Can you get proof of any of the Marva drop-off information? Just the fact that he did go to Marva's with clothes from his house and that the Prosecution found this material. I would like to add this to the "Facts Only" thread - if available.

Jones said it on the tape. Janice Jones mentioned that was one of the errands she asked him to run that day. And I think either the prosecution or defense mentioned it referring to timeline. But as for facts- I guess you will have to find it in one of the Courier articles........

[lorettalockhorn]

And don't forget Ginoccio handing a large package to Carol Dipert in the courtroom as well.

In my opinion no we did not get a fair shake from the Courier. Ginoccio was partial/biased from the beginning. This is evidenced in her article about the girl that lied about the rape at the Whitesides house. She put Jones name on the front page in that article for no reason. She and the Courier are in a law suit about that.
Then she came on this site posting as 2 people, herself and lemoncello. In the change of venue hearing she admitted on the stand that she lied as lemoncello about being abused herself because "it was for a future book". Then a laywer stood up and said there was a pending lawsuit about that as well and she would not be able to answer any more quesitons.
But the Courier chose to keep this reporter with an obvious bias, involved in two lawsuits, reporting on this trial.

I found that The Courier's coverage wasn't any more biased than any other accounts that I've read.

Can't imagine why you would expect JG to speak with the Jones family, since there is a lawsuit about the alleged rape story, or criticize her for not doing so. You can't have it both ways.

Don't know why The Courier allowed her to continue working in the capacity as a reporter in the trial, unless it was to show support until the libel suit is resolved.

[christina]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;8926578]I found that The Courier's coverage wasn't any more biased than any other accounts that I've read.

Can't imagine why you would expect JG to speak with the Jones family, since there is a lawsuit about the alleged rape story,

Jones are not part of that lawsuit to my knowledge.


or criticize her for not doing so.


I did not critize her for not speaking to the Jones family, please do not put words in my mouth.

[lorettalockhorn]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;8926578]I found that The Courier's coverage wasn't any more biased than any other accounts that I've read.

Can't imagine why you would expect JG to speak with the Jones family, since there is a lawsuit about the alleged rape story,

Jones are not part of that lawsuit to my knowledge.


or criticize her for not doing so.


I did not critize her for not speaking to the Jones family, please do not put words in my mouth.

Oh, okay. First you posted this: I can tell you that the Courier reporter went over and chatted Carol Dipert up again today. I have not seen her speak to the Jones family the entire trial.

My interpretation was that you were being critical of her favoritism.

Later you posted this: And don't forget Ginoccio handing a large package to Carol Dipert in the courtroom as well.

In my opinion no we did not get a fair shake from the Courier. Ginoccio was partial/biased from the beginning. This is evidenced in her article about the girl that lied about the rape at the Whitesides house. She put Jones name on the front page in that article for no reason. She and the Courier are in a law suit about that.
Then she came on this site posting as 2 people, herself and lemoncello. In the change of venue hearing she admitted on the stand that she lied as lemoncello about being abused herself because "it was for a future book". Then a laywer stood up and said there was a pending lawsuit about that as well and she would not be able to answer any more quesitons.
But the Courier chose to keep this reporter with an obvious bias, involved in two lawsuits, reporting on this trial.

Isn't part of the complaint that RW's name was only mentioned because of the murder indictment and his relationship with KJ? Not putting words in your mouth at all; just trying my best to understand your reasoning as opposed to my own.

[christina]

[QUOTE=christina;8926579]

Oh, okay. First you posted this:

My interpretation was that you were being critical of her favoritism.

Nope, trying to point out a difference in behavoir. Did not intend a value judgement.

Later you posted this:

Isn't part of the complaint that RW's name was only mentioned because of the murder indictment and his relationship with KJ? Not putting words in your mouth at all; just trying my best to understand your reasoning as opposed to my own.

My understanding of the suit, second hand only(maybe I can look it up in the courthouse?), is that the Courier printed the story without complete information, with no charges filed (the complaint was still under investigation, was proven false, and Ryan Whiteside was not even part of the complaint) and thus caused defamation(?) to the Whiteside's.

[lorettalockhorn]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;8926584]

My understanding of the suit, second hand only(maybe I can look it up in the courthouse?), is that the Courier printed the story without complete information, with no charges filed (the complaint was still under investigation, was proven false, and Ryan Whiteside was not even part of the complaint) and thus caused defamation(?) to the Whiteside's.

Well, as a taxpayer and a subscriber to the paper, I have to say that I appreciate that The Courier printed the story. We have every right to know that there are potential rapists in the community, as well as people who may possibly be using illegal drugs and providing alcohol to underage drinkers, especially if one of those people is under indictment for murder. The Whitesides wouldn't have been mentioned if the alleged incident hadn't occurred on their property.

[nobody]

[QUOTE=christina;8926592]

Well, as a taxpayer and a subscriber to the paper, I have to say that I appreciate that The Courier printed the story. We have every right to know that there are potential rapists in the community, as well as people who may possibly be using illegal drugs and providing alcohol to underage drinkers, especially if one of those people is under indictment for murder. The Whitesides wouldn't have been mentioned if the alleged incident hadn't occurred on their property.

I do believe the Whitesides should have been charged with providing alcohol to minors - there were no reported disputes in that. However, if you believe that this dry county is pure and innocent - then you are naive to what our youth do, for fun, in these small towns.
The reporter for the Courier should also be slapped on the hand for printing allegations.

[lorettalockhorn]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;8926606]

I do believe the Whitesides should have been charged with providing alcohol to minors - there were no reported disputes in that. However, if you believe that this dry county is pure and innocent - then you are naive to what our youth do, for fun, in these small towns.
The reporter for the Courier should also be slapped on the hand for printing allegations.


Not all youths entertain themselves by participating in illegal activities. There is plenty for youngsters to do without making their parents libel for their behavior.

Why should The Courier or the reporter be slapped on the wrist for what was public information? It's not like this is Whitesidegate, they didn't illegally obtain the information as far as we know.

[hawgustusgloop]

Correct. I was in the court room when the prosecution played the enhanced version of the tape(jury was gone. They had played the full version, un-enhanced earlier that day for the jury). The judge made everyone present be quiet as it was played. Non one could make out what was said. The prosecutor then played a section, told us what he thought was said, then play the next section and did the same. The judge told them he could not hear anything but the word Lord and that this would be prejudicial since the jury would have to be told by the prosecutor what was being said. Further reasoning by the judge- they had heard it on their own once, and would be able to take the tape into the jury room for deliberations and hear it there again. Rumor was the prosecution paid a lot to get that enhanced.
The defense also contended in opening that the prosecution paid a lot to send off a pair of shoes with blood on them that Jones had supposedly dropped at Marva after the murder. The report came back that it was animal blood on the bottom of Jones' father's shoes. I would like to see the date on that report as another rumor is, Gibbons waited to file charges until he received that report. I could understand that as if it had come back the way he wanted it to, it would have been damning evidence.

How do you know that "no one" could make out what was said?

[hawgustusgloop]

I thought Nona graduated from Dover too and her mom lived there up until she married Dipert.
But, sorry, I can't speak about the reporter from the Dover paper. Don't get the paper an don't know who they are. The bulk of the reporting was done though by the Courier. Understandably so since they are a 6 day a week paper versus a once a week paper in Dover.

Well, I thought K.Jo's brother used to work for the Dover Times.

[christina]

[QUOTE=nobody;8926616]


Not all youths entertain themselves by participating in illegal activities. There is plenty for youngsters to do without making their parents libel for their behavior.

Why should The Courier or the reporter be slapped on the wrist for what was public information? It's not like this is Whitesidegate, they didn't illegally obtain the information as far as we know.

Nobody(name still cracks me up) makes a good point. Drinking parties are rampant in our "dry" county. However, I agree, underage drinking and those that supply them are unacceptable. (Unless of course they are serving in the military. IMO old enough to fight equals old enough to drink. But I digress...)


I was told by a source I believe, but a rumor per the rules, that the report was not public yet. Ms Ginoccio was given access to the investigation but asked not to print anything til it was over. Gibbons and the RPD were very upset after it was printed as the complaint turned out to be a lie, and now they have closed the door to future dealings with Ginoccio.

[christina]

How do you know that "no one" could make out what was said?

Good point. Sorry, I should have stated that more clearly. Several people around me were leaning in to hear what was said. They nodded in agreement with the judge when he declared all he could hear was the word Lord. The only two in the courtroom who spoke up or showed outward signs of disagreeing with the judge were Gibbons and Phillips, the prosecutors.

[christina]

Well, I thought K.Jo's brother used to work for the Dover Times.

I can neither confirm nor deny that. Someone on here posted he did but I have not seen anything to back it up.

[lorettalockhorn]

Well, I thought K.Jo's brother used to work for the Dover Times.


Interesting. And now he's gone to KFSM. Man! do their newscasts suck! (Not because of him, I've never seen him on air), but that Bridgette Somebody is irritating with her pinched up mouth; it's like she can barely stand to say what she's saying. And the reporter that was calling in from the courthouse and was also sometimes in the studio just stumbled through her reports; it was like she had never bothered to read them before going on air.

Aren't the stories that are showing up in The Atkins Chronicle and The Dover Times all written by the same reporter; Elizabeth Brown? Are some stories being published in one and not the other? I really haven't looked hard enough to compare.

[christina]

Nobody!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[quote=lorettalockhorn;8926606]
Quote:
Originally Posted by christina

Well, as a taxpayer and a subscriber to the paper, I have to say that I appreciate that The Courier printed the story. We have every right to know that there are potential rapists in the community, as well as people who may possibly be using illegal drugs and providing alcohol to underage drinkers, especially if one of those people is under indictment for murder. The Whitesides wouldn't have been mentioned if the alleged incident hadn't occurred on their property.
I do believe the Whitesides should have been charged with providing alcohol to minors - there were no reported disputes in that. However, if you believe that this dry county is pure and innocent - then you are naive to what our youth do, for fun, in these small towns.
The reporter for the Courier should also be slapped on the hand for printing allegations.



This is not my post/quote!

[lorettalockhorn]

Can you get proof of any of the Marva drop-off information? Just the fact that he did go to Marva's with clothes from his house and that the Prosecution found this material. I would like to add this to the "Facts Only" thread - if available.

What? The defense didn't have a receipt? Guess the donation could have been just dropped off.

[hawgustusgloop]

I can neither confirm nor deny that. Someone on here posted he did but I have not seen anything to back it up.

I wasn't asking you to confirm or deny it, but thanks anyway.

Backing it up:

http://www.atkinschronicle.com/07-25anews3.htm

Second paragraph, second sentence.

[jonikay]

I can neither confirm nor deny that. Someone on here posted he did but I have not seen anything to back it up.

ATKINS CHRONICLE.COM (also in Dover Times)
Verdict: Jones found not guilty

The courtroom was quiet as Kevin Jones stood to hear the verdict in the first degree murder trial last week in Ozark. Defense attorney Bill Bristow of Jonesboro reached over and grabbed his client in a bear hug as they waited for Circuit Judge John Patterson to read the verdict. Finally, after a year and a half the Jones family heard the words they had been praying for - NOT GUILTY!

Following the decision, the courtroom suddenly became animated as Jones rushed to embrace his brother, Russell Jones, a news reporter for KFSM-TV, Channel 5, in Fort Smith. (Russell is also a former employee of The Dover Times.) Hugs and tears flew abundantly as members of the Jones family along with friends felt a surge of relief.

For what it's worth, I distinctly remember some of Russell's articles. A lot of them were concerning Dover schools. The Chronicle and the Times are "sister" papers, I guess you could call it.

[hawgustusgloop]

What? The defense didn't have a receipt? Guess the donation could have been just dropped off.

I think the proof was K.Jo saying it on the interview tape, which is as good as fact to me.:rolleyes:

[jonikay]

You beat me to it, H!

[lorettalockhorn]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;8926635]

Nobody(name still cracks me up) makes a good point. Drinking parties are rampant in our "dry" county. However, I agree, underage drinking and those that supply them are unacceptable. (Unless of course they are serving in the military. IMO old enough to fight equals old enough to drink. But I digress...)


I was told by a source I believe, but a rumor per the rules, that the report was not public yet. Ms Ginoccio was given access to the investigation but asked not to print anything til it was over. Gibbons and the RPD were very upset after it was printed as the complaint turned out to be a lie, and now they have closed the door to future dealings with Ginoccio.

Well, I'm flabbergasted. Why in the world would anyone give a report to the press, whose job it is to keep the public informed, and expect her to not write a story? And she's not the editor/publisher, so it wouldn't be her call anyway.

All that aside, the woman sounds like some of the other loose cannons and fruitcakes that have come and gone (and stayed), in this thread. I just cannot imagine for the life of me, what would cause a legitimate reporter/writer/author to insert herself into any type of sexual assault case like lemoncello did. Just pathological. Wonder if she's had her head examined.

[christina]

Interesting. And now he's gone to KFSM. Man! do their newscasts suck! (Not because of him, I've never seen him on air), but that Bridgette Somebody is irritating with her pinched up mouth; it's like she can barely stand to say what she's saying. And the reporter that was calling in from the courthouse and was also sometimes in the studio just stumbled through her reports; it was like she had never bothered to read them before going on air.

Aren't the stories that are showing up in The Atkins Chronicle and The Dover Times all written by the same reporter; Elizabeth Brown? Are some stories being published in one and not the other? I really haven't looked hard enough to compare.

I did not care for many of the TV reporters nor their reports. You could tell many had a big head/deserved attention while in the courtroom. Funny though that the one for Channell 4 did something right because they were the only camera allowed in the courtroom right after the verdict was read!Which was you favorite- most informative?

[oxfordwebster]

But it does mean that the people defending Jones print being placed at the time of the discovery has been answered. TJ and others, myslelf included have answered our understanding/conclusion to this. You can not agree with our view, but please stop telling us we haven't answered you.You (or anybody else) haven't answered the criticisms, and I'll continue saying so until they are. I can use reason to back my views up, and not just blindly pasting quotes from a defense expert.

[christina]

I wasn't asking you to confirm or deny it, but thanks anyway.

Backing it up:

http://www.atkinschronicle.com/07-25anews3.htm

Second paragraph, second sentence.



Got it, Thanks.

[lorettalockhorn]

I think the proof was K.Jo saying it on the interview tape, which is as good as fact to me.:rolleyes:

LMAO

It's a cardinal sin at Chez Lockhorn not to bring receipts for purchases as well as donations. :punch:

[christina]

I think the proof was K.Jo saying it on the interview tape, which is as good as fact to me.:rolleyes:

Ignoring your sarcasm... I believe I also said that it was mentioned by other witnesses as well.

[christina]

You (or anybody else) haven't answered the criticisms, and I'll continue saying so until they are. I can use reason to back my views up, and not just blindly pasting quotes from a defense expert.

The sky is blue.

[hawgustusgloop]

Interesting. And now he's gone to KFSM. Man! do their newscasts suck! (Not because of him, I've never seen him on air), but that Bridgette Somebody is irritating with her pinched up mouth; it's like she can barely stand to say what she's saying. And the reporter that was calling in from the courthouse and was also sometimes in the studio just stumbled through her reports; it was like she had never bothered to read them before going on air.

Aren't the stories that are showing up in The Atkins Chronicle and The Dover Times all written by the same reporter; Elizabeth Brown? Are some stories being published in one and not the other? I really haven't looked hard enough to compare.

IMO at least Russellville-area locals also have the LR stations to choose from. Back where I grew up, you get KFSM, KNWA, and KHBS, and that's about it. I think the Fox affiliate does news now, too, but you don't wanna go there IMO. KFSM is doing well to play the right video during the right segment and to spell the words on the screen correctly.

[jonikay]

I did not care for many of the TV reporters nor their reports. You could tell many had a big head/deserved attention while in the courtroom. Funny though that the one for Channell 4 did something right because they were the only camera allowed in the courtroom right after the verdict was read!Which was you favorite- most informative?
I also think the news reports were lacking in the information they chose to report. I, however, thought the lady with channel 7 (short brown hair, braces, looked older than the blonde channel 4 girl) was the most invested in the trial. She stayed in the courtroom (when I was there), took a bunch of notes, and was visibly emotional during some of the testimonies. And, I just figured that channel 4 was first to bust through the doors, since after the verdict is read, the trial is over so there would be no need to ban the press after that. But, that's just me figuring.

[TJEddie]

The sky is blue.

I agree, christina. A defense attorney told me it was true.

[jonikay]

Good point. Sorry, I should have stated that more clearly. Several people around me were leaning in to hear what was said. They nodded in agreement with the judge when he declared all he could hear was the word Lord. The only two in the courtroom who spoke up or showed outward signs of disagreeing with the judge were Gibbons and Phillips, the prosecutors.
I was there as well and I couldn't hear much of what Kevin said in the enhanced tape. People were asked to be quiet, but it just didn't happen. It was during break and people, including Mrs. Dipert, were opening doors and walking in while the prosecution was trying to show the tape to the judge/defense. It was also hindered by Gibbons' play-by-play and the defense's tactic (imo)to argue the content throughout every single play back of the tape. Of course we couldn't hear it. Also, Phillips told the judge that it is his opinion that one can hear what was said more clearly on the tape that wasn't enhanced. The enhanced version had a bunch of "white noise" in the background. Also, Gibbons begged for the judge to let the jury hear it and if they hear it, they do and if they don't, they don't. Since Gibbons had already told the jury what he thought the enhanced version said (during opening statements), they were not going to play the tape.

[lorettalockhorn]

IMO at least Russellville-area locals also have the LR stations to choose from. Back where I grew up, you get KFSM, KNWA, and KHBS, and that's about it. I think the Fox affiliate does news now, too, but you don't wanna go there IMO. KFSM is doing well to play the right video during the right segment and to spell the words on the screen correctly.

We have both cable and DISH, so we get 4, 5, 7, 11, and 16. (DISH only recently replaced the flagship networks with local access.) I only watched sixteen once and they didn't have any coverage, so I never went back. I tried to watch and record two or three channels' coverage each day at 5:00and 6:00 and thought that Channels 4 and 7 had superior coverage to 5 and 11. I'll admit that my dislike of CH5's coverage was that BSchultz(?) speaks like the news is dirty and is to be spit out and the on scene reporter was so ill prepared, they should have sent the guy that covers the Fayetteville beat; he is really good.

[christina]

[QUOTE=christina;8926659]

Well, I'm flabbergasted. Why in the world would anyone give a report to the press, whose job it is to keep the public informed, and expect her to not write a story? And she's not the editor/publisher, so it wouldn't be her call anyway.

All that aside, the woman sounds like some of the other loose cannons and fruitcakes that have come and gone (and stayed), in this thread. I just cannot imagine for the life of me, what would cause a legitimate reporter/writer/author to insert herself into any type of sexual assault case like lemoncello did. Just pathological. Wonder if she's had her head examined.


I have a reporter friend in a bigger city who said it is common to build relationships with sources. So he would "make friends" with police officers and government types in hopes of getting scoops on stories. He said those sources liked having a reporter as a "friend" because they could "use them" as well.

[partyharty]

The sky is blue.

Prove it......
Do ya have a source.:shrug:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[christina]

I also think the news reports were lacking in the information they chose to report. I, however, thought the lady with channel 7 (short brown hair, braces, looked older than the blonde channel 4 girl) was the most invested in the trial. She stayed in the courtroom (when I was there), took a bunch of notes, and was visibly emotional during some of the testimonies. And, I just figured that channel 4 was first to bust through the doors, since after the verdict is read, the trial is over so there would be no need to ban the press after that. But, that's just me figuring.

I know the reporter you are talking about and agree. The other one invested was the one from a fox station in Ft Smith, they both stayed through the whole trial.
Actually, the Channel 4 camerperson and reporter were inside the courtroom, they just pulled the camera up and hit play apparantly. The others were in the hall outside the side door.

[lorettalockhorn]

I agree, christina. A defense attorney told me it was true.

HAHAHAHA Both times that Christina has posted that the sky is blue, it's been too hazy here for me to tell. :seeya:

[hawgustusgloop]

I agree, christina. A defense attorney told me it was true.

Good one, TJEddie!

:beer:

[christina]

We have both cable and DISH, so we get 4, 5, 7, 11, and 16. (DISH only recently replaced the flagship networks with local access.) I only watched sixteen once and they didn't have any coverage, so I never went back. I tried to watch and record two or three channels' coverage each day at 5:00and 6:00 and thought that Channels 4 and 7 had superior coverage to 5 and 11. I'll admit that my dislike of CH5's coverage was that BSchultz(?) speaks like the news is dirty and is to be spit out and the on scene reporter was so ill prepared, they should have sent the guy that covers the Fayetteville beat; he is really good.

Not being a big TV family, we only have basic cable. I agree about Channel 5 and agree to the coverage level of 7 and 4. Although the blond from 7 was nowhere near as serious in her attendance/appearance and note taking.

[TJEddie]

Yeah, you too. I have a hard time believing that you aren't a sockpuppet of Christina's.

If both of your responses to actual criticism is to either ignore them or just act like children, then it's no wonder I haven't been posting lately. The high level of bullsh*t in this thread lately, flowing from new and old Kevin defenders, has made the signal-to-noise ratio drop greatly.

Hey, oxford. Since you're here and apparently in the mood to chat, maybe you'd like to pick back up on your statement last night that Dr. Lordison's testimony was "laughable." You never got back to me on just why a retired chief medical examiner's testimony would be characterized as such.....and as I pointed out, I would like to know.

Feel free to pull out all of your big words and high level reasoning skills. I'll do my best to follow along. Thanks.

[jonikay]

Not being a big TV family, we only have basic cable. I agree about Channel 5 and agree to the coverage level of 7 and 4. Although the blond from 7 was nowhere near as serious in her attendance/appearance and note taking.
You mean the blonde from channel 4? Channel7 wasn't blonde. Channel 4's reporter was thumbs down, imo. Coming and going all the time, didn't seem interested at all. But I must admit, some of the testimony was tedious.

[lorettalockhorn]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;8926682]


I have a reporter friend in a bigger city who said it is common to build relationships with sources. So he would "make friends" with police officers and government types in hopes of getting scoops on stories. He said those sources liked having a reporter as a "friend" because they could "use them" as well.


I'm aware of the symbiosis that frequently exists between the press and sources. I think that lots of people learned that JG is possibly not to be trusted; us, The Courier, LE, the public who have inferred what happened here with lemoncello, etc.

[partyharty]

Yeah, you too. I have a hard time believing that you aren't a sockpuppet of Christina's.

If both of your responses to actual criticism is to either ignore them or just act like children, then it's no wonder I haven't been posting lately. The high level of bullsh*t in this thread lately, flowing from new and old Kevin defenders, has made the signal-to-noise ratio drop greatly.

You know I was once told that if you cannot attack the story then you attack the storytellers credibility. (I dont have a source for this so you will have to take it as a unsubstantiated rumor)

I may be accused of also being a "sockpuppet" because I do tend to agree with Christina on some things (not all however). I also appreciate that she was in the courtroom and was able to give us updates on things that happened in the courtroom but did not necessarly end up on the 6 oclock newscast.

I agree with you that the Signal to Noise ratio has dropped lately (have you read some of your own post's)? You tend to attack those who do not agree with you. My feelings have been posted here in regards to this case.

Hate to be snarky but I would like to talk about the case, not about your opinion of those on this board who do not agree with you.

By the way do you think I am a Kevin Defender? (if so the real answer would probably surprise you).

Sorry everyone as someone who mostly lurks here, I just had to say what I felt needed said.

[lorettalockhorn]

I did not care for many of the TV reporters nor their reports. You could tell many had a big head/deserved attention while in the courtroom. Funny though that the one for Channell 4 did something right because they were the only camera allowed in the courtroom right after the verdict was read!Which was you favorite- most informative?

I didn't go to any of the trial, so I wouldn't know. But I would think that considering the egos that most attorneys have, it would be hard to notice that reporters have big heads. (I guess it's a good thing that attorneys have thick skin since their egos get quashed from time to time in public.)

I don't remember any individual reporters really, their appearances just didn't stand out. In your opinion, which stations had big headed reporters and which deserved attention?

[oxfordwebster]

Hey, oxford. Since you're here and apparently in the mood to chat, maybe you'd like to pick back up on your statement last night that Dr. Lordison's testimony was "laughable." You never got back to me on just why a retired chief medical examiner's testimony would be characterized as such.....and as I pointed out, I would like to know.I've already explained why it was laughable.

Here's a challenge for you: using Lordison's testimony, walk me through how Kevin could have somehow accidentally removed all signs of blood coagulation from his hands before leaving that print when he found her.

Go on. It should be the most detailed defense of this I've heard, yet.

[christina]

I didn't go to any of the trial, so I wouldn't know. But I would think that considering the egos that most attorneys have, it would be hard to notice that reporters have big heads. (I guess it's a good thing that attorneys have thick skin since their egos get quashed from time to time in public.)

I don't remember any individual reporters really, their appearances just didn't stand out. In your opinion, which stations had big headed reporters and which deserved attention?


Now THAT is funny!

[christina]

You mean the blonde from channel 4? Channel7 wasn't blonde. Channel 4's reporter was thumbs down, imo. Coming and going all the time, didn't seem interested at all. But I must admit, some of the testimony was tedious.


Agreed- which made those pews even harder to sit on!

[christina]

You know I was once told that if you cannot attack the story then you attack the storytellers credibility. (I dont have a source for this so you will have to take it as a unsubstantiated rumor)

I may be accused of also being a "sockpuppet" because I do tend to agree with Christina on some things (not all however). I also appreciate that she was in the courtroom and was able to give us updates on things that happened in the courtroom but did not necessarly end up on the 6 oclock newscast.

I agree with you that the Signal to Noise ratio has dropped lately (have you read some of your own post's)? You tend to attack those who do not agree with you. My feelings have been posted here in regards to this case.

Hate to be snarky but I would like to talk about the case, not about your opinion of those on this board who do not agree with you.

By the way do you think I am a Kevin Defender? (if so the real answer would probably surprise you).

Sorry everyone as someone who mostly lurks here, I just had to say what I felt needed said.


You are in good company here- my family to begin with!

[TJEddie]

I've already explained why it was laughable.

Well, no. As I recall, you dropped it like a hot potato as soon as I challenged you to explain. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to miss your explanation, as I believe it is important for all of us to be aware of specific weaknesses or untruths in expert testimony......particularly if they are so egregious as to render the testimony "laughable."

Here's a challenge for you: using Lordison's testimony, walk me through how Kevin could have somehow accidentally removed all signs of blood coagulation from his hands before leaving that print when he found her.

Go on. It should be the most detailed defense of this I've heard, yet.

I've already done that, oxford. I believe it's on page 153, but I'll help you find it if you have trouble.
Hint: In my theorized scenario, the print is made early in the discovery when only serum/plasma lifted from Nona's bloody hair would have been on Kevin's hands.

[lorettalockhorn]

You know I was once told that if you cannot attack the story then you attack the storytellers credibility. (I dont have a source for this so you will have to take it as a unsubstantiated rumor)

I may be accused of also being a "sockpuppet" because I do tend to agree with Christina on some things (not all however). I also appreciate that she was in the courtroom and was able to give us updates on things that happened in the courtroom but did not necessarly end up on the 6 oclock newscast.

I agree with you that the Signal to Noise ratio has dropped lately (have you read some of your own post's)? You tend to attack those who do not agree with you. My feelings have been posted here in regards to this case.

Hate to be snarky but I would like to talk about the case, not about your opinion of those on this board who do not agree with you.

By the way do you think I am a Kevin Defender? (if so the real answer would probably surprise you).

Sorry everyone as someone who mostly lurks here, I just had to say what I felt needed said.

I cannot answer for ox, but I've had problems accepting some courtroom reports when they can't be verified by other firsthand observers.

And I don't see asking about the possible logic that the jury or anyone else had for believing the unclotted, untainted palm print was possible, nor the fact that Lordison (for example) was absolutely to be believed as more of an expert than Kokes, to be an attack.

[christina]

Wednesday-first witness-The defense ME, MD, board certified in forensic pathology, retired chief medical examiner for Alabama, personally performed between 3-4,000 autopsies, believes an autopsy is just one tool in the cause of death investigation, 95% of his tesitifying has been for prosecutors, described blood properties(breakdown in white, red cells, etc.) and how they act differently on a porous versus a non porus surface when drying, stated that the rug under victim's head acted as a sponge, said clotting would have little to do with when the blood was placed on the bulb, was surprised the autopsy took place 4 days after death, said it was highly unusual because demposition had started(showing pictures to the jury)and made TOD more difficult to determine, believed in a case like this is would be very important to do the autopsy asap, 3 things to determine TOD- lividity, body temp and rigor, (body temp was not taken in this case), described rigo-fibers around muscles lock, says if there was a struggle or the victim had soem physical activity prior-the fibors are depleted so it is harder/less reliable to set TOD using this....
I have some notes on his description of how the attack took place, the specific injuries on the vicitm, histology slides, etc...
He was a very easy witness to listen to as he spoke in understandable terms and kind of taught as he went along. And most important he spoke loud enough for us to easily hear! He was an older gentleman, neat in appearance, relaxed, was not emotional. The prosecution had a very hard time cross examining him, like they were over their heads with his knowledge level. He was not phased by anything they asked and was not contentious when asked why he differed with their ME.
Recently I saw Bevel, the prosecution expert, on one of the TV shows about crime. He was postulating about another case. IMO, Bevel is looking for a level of fame making him suspect to me.

[oxfordwebster]

Well, no. As I recall, you dropped it like a hot potato as soon as I challenged you to explain. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't want to miss your explanation, as I believe it is important for all of us to be aware of specific weaknesses or untruths in expert testimony......particularly if they are so egregious as to render the testimony "laughable."The jury ignored opinions anyway, so they must know better than us.

And I haven't dropped anything like a "hot potato." Keep it up, though.

I've already done that, oxford. I believe it's on page 153, but I'll help you find it if you have trouble.
Hint: In my theorized scenario, the print is made early in the discovery when only serum/plasma lifted from Nona's bloody hair would have been on Kevin's hands.Oh, okay. That makes so much more sense. He made the print after only touching her hair after so long, which would have been dry by that point but it was still somehow wet enough to leave a print.

Or... he caused fresh blood to come out when he flipped her over, still only touching her hair, and the only thing that managed to transfer to his hands was blood showing no signs of coagulation.

Or... forest elves and fairies helped him out. It seems about as plausible. There are trees behind the apartment, after all.

Do tell me, TJ, where I am misinterpreting you. I'd really like to know how you explain this. Your post on page 153 didn't.

[TJEddie]

As for the Kokes vs. Lordison argument.....Did Dr. Kokes ever specifically address or rebut Dr. Lordison's testimony on the possible lifting of serum and plasma from hair or carpet?

[oxfordwebster]

Recently I saw Bevel, the prosecution expert, on one of the TV shows about crime. He was postulating about another case. IMO, Bevel is looking for a level of fame making him suspect to me.And you have stated to be a friend of the Whiteside family, which makes everything you report suspect as well, especially after the ridiculous behavior in the courtroom from that side of things. Funny how that works.