Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[lorettalockhorn]

I see your point about no cross examination taking place. Whiteside was asked about it on the stand by prosecutors and he said Jones had sex with another woman.
And remember, the boys who said they had sex with Nona were the prosecution's witnesses. I would think they would have done their homework better so as to keep them off the stand and use someone or something else to set the timeline

I'm well aware that Harris was a prosecution witness. My point that is escaping you, is that I think it was a mistake for the State to make a deal with the defense to not call any of KJ's partner(s). The jury saw Nona as having been unfaithful with JH, but never had an opportunity to see the likes of the girl/woman that Kevin was sleeping with.

I'm worried that God told the foreperson that Nona was unfaithful and didn't see that Kevin was equally if not more so, and for some reason decided that Jared? was a more likely suspect than the guy with the motive, opportunity and blood on his hands.

I may be losing it, but besides Harris and KJ, what other boy said that he had sex with Nona?

[christina]

We don't know what that person actually saw in that one-minute viewing that she had all of this detail about that she was able to recall after being talked to by people working for the defense. We don't know who the person was, what keys were thrown out, or what car was driven off in. Why exactly would Nona throw her keys out to someone to drive off, leaving her stranded?

That witness was suspect and it was shown in court.

I already clarified this.

I drove up to the apartments after Bean testified, stood at her door and looked down at Nona's apartment to see if it was a clear view. It was/is.
Bean was originally interviewed by RPD, that was how the defense got her name. That was something I found interesting, the prosecution did not list her as a witness.

I missed that, can you elaborate?

[TJEddie]

Ok, kids, gotta run for now. Real Life is pounding at my door......and it's wearing leather wrist bands!! (insert winky thing here)

Later.....

[christina]

If K.Jo did this..............The kitchen light was on IMO so that when RW walked around to the sliding door, he could see Nona lying on the floor. There had to be enough light that someone could see her if they were trying to peer in, but not so much that anyone who just happened to walk by would immediately notice her lying there and call 911 before K.Jo could return to contaminate the scene.

No one can casually walk by that door. The walkway is narrow and at the top of a very steep piece of concrete that ends at the street.

[christina]

So, you DO believe that the defense listed witnesses such as the jewelry store employee and Jeremy Martin merely as a tactic and never intended to call them?

Yes. I can't read their minds but it is a common tactic used by both prosecution and defense.
Why did the prosecution/police list FBI profilers in the PCS but never produce so much as a report from them?

[oxfordwebster]

No one can casually walk by that door. The walkway is narrow and at the top of a very steep piece of concrete that ends at the street.Which works out for Kevin, since he was able to lead everybody to just the right place. With the lights dimmed, he didn't have to worry much about others seeing her.

[TJEddie]

She was so good with details, that she said that he was wearing "things" on his wrist.

I'm convinced. How did we ever get to thinking she specifically said leather wrist wraps?

Before I go.....I think you're grasping at straws here, oxford. I think BB testified to what she saw. Maybe wrist bands weren't in her fashion repertoire and she didn't know what to call them.....I don't see that as discounting her testimony.

[christina]

She never saw a face and couldn't identify anybody if she wanted.

Do you really think that she's going to remember so many helpful details like she did? Do you think there is a possibility that, when the defense initially talked to Bean, that they used leading questions to get the answers they wanted?

She was able to identify height, build and clothing items such as wrist bands.
But wait, you are wanting Jones to remember every little detail, perfectly for his entire day, but you give Bean a walk here. She remembered that specific event because, as she testified to, if it got louder she was going to call the police.
What we do know is the police did not ask enough questions of her, like if it was Jones she saw. I would like to know the date police talked to her. Frost testified officers went around that evening and talked with neighbors. And we do know that the prosecution did not list her as a witness.

[oxfordwebster]

Before I go.....I think you're grasping at straws here, oxford. I think BB testified to what she saw. Maybe wrist bands weren't in her fashion repertoire and she didn't know what to call them.....I don't see that as discounting her testimony.Absolutely not, because it has been assumed that she referenced to Trey's leather wristbands, yet she didn't. I think that's an important thing to point out in light of the discussions about it.

I don't want to be stuck on Bean's testimony, because it doesn't change the evidence on Kevin whatsoever. The defense went for smoke-blowing as their tactic.

[oxfordwebster]

She was able to identify height, build and clothing items such as wrist bands.You mean "things"?

But wait, you are wanting Jones to remember every little detail, perfectly for his entire day, but you give Bean a walk here.No. I just think this doesn't change a thing about the case against Kevin. As I mentioned, it's a smokescreen.

What we do know is the police did not ask enough questions of her, like if it was Jones she saw. I would like to know the date police talked to her. Frost testified officers went around that evening and talked with neighbors. And we do know that the prosecution did not list her as a witness.I'd like to know, too. I'd also like to know if anybody they interviewed later gave answers to the defense that were different than what they told the police.

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to answer my question on what name you personally heard in court for the FBI profiler that the prosecution told the jurors they would be calling.

[hawgustusgloop]

No one can casually walk by that door. The walkway is narrow and at the top of a very steep piece of concrete that ends at the street.

So, there is absolutely zero chance that, for example, someone's dog could get out, and the owner would have to chase it and end up there? Or that some kids might try to play with one of the stray cats she fed and end up near her back door? Impossible?

[oxfordwebster]

So, there is absolutely zero chance that, for example, someone's dog could get out, and the owner would have to chase it and end up there? Or that some kids might try to play with one of the stray cats she fed and end up near her back door? Impossible?I think I've seen photos where you can see that other people had sliding doors to that same area that were her neighbors, so it's definitely not impossible. It's not like the sliding door opens to a cliff immediately. I need to go run an errand later today, so I think I'll go drive by and look for myself.

[jonikay]

I wasn't in the courtroom for Brandy's testimony, but I was there for Trey's. The defense stated, during their cross examination of Trey, that he wore a ball cap and leather wristbands to his interrogation. The defense also said that a neighbor would testify that she saw a man wearing leather wristbands and a ball cap . . . and asked him if he ever took Nona's trash out. He said no. Christina, did Brandy testify to seeing a man in a ball cap? I must say that Trey and Kevin are very different in their height, appearance, and hair color. Trey is dark-haired, but he does not have a dark complexion, he had a rather light-complexion actually. Christina, could you agree? I believe that if Brandy stated that she saw this man, she wouldn't have gotten him confused with Kevin, but many, many people could fit the description she gave. Now, if she had explained someone with the characteristics of Jordan Harris, I believe she very well could've gotten Jordan and Kevin confused. Just food for thought, I guess.

[hawgustusgloop]

One rumor going around (if it is a rumor) is that Kevin had gotten a girl in Fayetteville pregnant and that his mom paid for the abortion (w/o his dad's knowledge). I heard this from two different sources. Has anybody heard this or can confirm this? It might explain any ongoing arguments between him and Nona.

I have wondered about this from the beginning. If this rumor is true, or even close to being true, I wonder if Nona found out about it? IIRC, one of the earliest witnesses said that Nona may have cheated on K.Jo as a "retaliation." I wonder if one of the witnesses that was never called would have possibly been asked about this, and if that was the reason the defense had asked for the press to be barred from the proceedings at the beginning of the trial? Otherwise, I can't really guess why they would make such a bizarre request, when nothing super shocking or salacious IMO came out at the trial.

[lorettalockhorn]

I wasn't in the courtroom for Brandy's testimony, but I was there for Trey's. The defense stated, during their cross examination of Trey, that he wore a ball cap and leather wristbands to his interrogation. The defense also said that a neighbor would testify that she saw a man wearing leather wristbands and a ball cap . . . and asked him if he ever took Nona's trash out. He said no. Christina, did Brandy testify to seeing a man in a ball cap? I must say that Trey and Kevin are very different in their height, appearance, and hair color. Trey is dark-haired, but he does not have a dark complexion, he had a rather light-complexion actually. Christina, could you agree? I believe that if Brandy stated that she saw this man, she wouldn't have gotten him confused with Kevin, but many, many people could fit the description she gave. Now, if she had explained someone with the characteristics of Jordan Harris, I believe she very well could've gotten Jordan and Kevin confused. Just food for thought, I guess.

The afternoon after Bean's testimony, KFSM reported that Bean stated that she had seen a man, wearing a ball cap and leather wrist bands was seen taking out Nona's trash. They reported that she described him, said that it wasn't KJ but could not identify the man in court. They noted that York wears leather wrist bands like Bean described.

Facial recognition is probably the most widely accepted method of recognition. She could tell that it wasn't Kevin, but she also couldn't tell that it was anyone in the courtroom. She must have been relying heavily on the man's build and complexion. It was noted in The Courier that Harris is physically similar to KJ. I guess the Garbage Toting Man's car wasn't in the lot that day, or she didn't look or whatever.

[jonikay]

The afternoon after Bean's testimony, KFSM reported that Bean stated that she had seen a man, wearing a ball cap and leather wrist bands was seen taking out Nona's trash. They reported that she described him, said that it wasn't KJ but could not identify the man in court. They noted that York wears leather wrist bands like Bean described.

Facial recognition is probably the most widely accepted method of recognition. She could tell that it wasn't Kevin, but she also couldn't tell that it was anyone in the courtroom. She must have been relying heavily on the man's build and complexion. It was noted in The Courier that Harris is physically similar to KJ. I guess the Garbage Toting Man's car wasn't in the lot that day, or she didn't look or whatever.
Well, Trey and Nona both had silver Mustangs (Trey's a newer model). Maybe Nona threw out Trey's keys and Trey drove away in his own vehicle and not Nona's. We know that Trey had told Nona to quit texting him as much, etc. because he felt she was taking advantage of him. Maybe that's what the confrontation between the two was about and Nona was refusing to let Trey leave, so he made a scene and she finally had to give him the keys so noone would call the police.

[christina]

Loretta--your PM box is full :D

Gee Loretta, I feel left out- this is twice someone has told you your pm box is full.

[lorettalockhorn]

Well, Trey and Nona both had silver Mustangs (Trey's a newer model). Maybe Nona threw out Trey's keys and Trey drove away in his own vehicle and not Nona's. We know that Trey had told Nona to quit texting him as much, etc. because he felt she was taking advantage of him. Maybe that's what the confrontation between the two was about and Nona was refusing to let Trey leave, so he made a scene and she finally had to give him the keys so noone would call the police.

That makes sense about the confrontation. I remember that York went into detail about the difference in the car models.

[christina]

That seems reasonable and could very well be true. However, I responded to christina's post because someone else suggested that the defense mentioned the jewelry store employee but never truly intended to call him, and instead of suggesting any other reason like you did, christina just said that both sides used that tactic. So, I was asking her if that meant she agreed with that suggestion. Thank you for your response, though.

Also, I thought the jewelry store employee was mentioned to the jury as someone who would be called, not someone who would be called if necessary.

Thought I did answer it- with a yes.

[christina]

Exactly! Most people would probably remember the screaming fight and the throwing of things. Not what the person may have been wearing on his wrists, how tall he was, or what his face looked like. IMO most would focus on the words being screamed and the objects being thrown.

Bean testified to seeing the man on three different occasions. She was also able to describe the car he drove. I did not notice where the outdoor trash receptacle is in that comples. I wonder if he had to walk by her apartment to dump the trash.

[hawgustusgloop]

Thought I did answer it- with a yes.

I thought you did, too, and thank you for your response.

[christina]

You were there for the entire trial, Christina. You make that clear.

What name did the prosecution give for an FBI profiler that they intended to call, but did not? You made the claim, and I expect it to be backed up.

To make this more clear: Christina, did you personally hear a name in court that was given for an FBI profiler that they intended to call, or are you basing this just on the PCS?

Basing it on the PCS that was talked about ad nauseum here on this blog and in the town in general.
A bit early in the day to get snarky?!

[jonikay]

Trey testified that he and Nona kissed in his dorm room, but nothing more. The defense, in their opening statements, said that Nona was in a dorm room with a guy once and he wasn't comfortable with having sex, but she took his hand and put it on her breast. The defense stated the guy wasn't comfortable with that, either. The defense never questioned Trey about this, but did ask a question that prompted Trey to say he wasn't comfortable with having sex with Nona. At the very beginning of the defense's cross examination of Harris, the defense said, "We heard a funny story about that day in the park. Did you stick your hand in something" Harris looking confused, said "no." He asked again, "You didn't stick your hand in anything." He said, "no, I don't know what you're referring to." Maybe he was referring to Nona grabbing his hand and putting it up her shirt. There were many allusions that were brought up by the defense, like this was, and never explained. Just dropped. They left me confused. I think it was the defense's tactic to create open questions like this, where they wouldn't have been before. It obviously worked well.

[christina]

Let's not leave anything out.

Did not intend to leave anything out- I don't remember how he stated it but it was plural, either more than once with one woman or more than one woman.

[lorettalockhorn]

Trey testified that he and Nona kissed in his dorm room, but nothing more. The defense, in their opening statements, said that Nona was in a dorm room with a guy once and he wasn't comfortable with having sex, but she took his hand and put it on her breast. The defense stated the guy wasn't comfortable with that, either. The defense never questioned Trey about this, but did ask a question that prompted Trey to say he wasn't comfortable with having sex with Nona. At the very beginning of the defense's cross examination of Harris, the defense said, "We heard a funny story about that day in the park. Did you stick your hand in something" Harris looking confused, said "no." He asked again, "You didn't stick your hand in anything." He said, "no, I don't know what you're referring to." Maybe he was referring to Nona grabbing his hand and putting it up her shirt. There were many allusions that were brought up by the defense, like this was, and never explained. Just dropped. They left me confused. I think it was the defense's tactic to create open questions like this, where they wouldn't have been before. It obviously worked well.

Thanks for answering my question from before. Christina mentioned the boys who testified for the prosecution that they had sex with Nona, and I could only remember JH.

Whew! I was worried that I had forgotten important testimony.

[jonikay]

Basing it on the PCS that was talked about ad nauseum here on this blog and in the town in general.
A bit early in the day to get snarky?!
It was never mentioned during the trial, when I was there. Did you ever hear it mentioned while you were there. What was stated in the PCS and what was stated in the trial were different, imo. We spent all of this time on the forum hashing out the PCS and some of the things were never mentioned.

[christina]

I'm well aware that Harris was a prosecution witness. My point that is escaping you, is that I think it was a mistake for the State to make a deal with the defense to not call any of KJ's partner(s). The jury saw Nona as having been unfaithful with JH, but never had an opportunity to see the likes of the girl/woman that Kevin was sleeping with.

I'm worried that God told the foreperson that Nona was unfaithful and didn't see that Kevin was equally if not more so, and for some reason decided that Jared? was a more likely suspect than the guy with the motive, opportunity and blood on his hands.

I may be losing it, but besides Harris and KJ, what other boy said that he had sex with Nona?

Boy, two snarking at me today. It didn't escape me. The lawyers on both sides did not make a deal. There was an objection and the judge ruled on it (jury not in the room)that since Jones himself admits to it on the tape all the prosecution witness would do is coorborate it.

[oxfordwebster]

Basing it on the PCS that was talked about ad nauseum here on this blog and in the town in general.
A bit early in the day to get snarky?!You made a claim that both sides named witnesses in court to a jury that they didn't intend to call, as a tactic. I asked you for an example of a prosecution witness, and you named the FBI profiler. You now back down and say that it was mentioned in the PCS, but you can't tell me that you heard it in court.

So, same tactic still?

You made a claim and can't back it up. My patience has run out on the topic and I'll let it stand. Everyone can read for themselves.

[oxfordwebster]

I drove by the apartments. The area between the sliding doors and the concrete drop-off is separated by a row of hedges/bushes. You can see from the road and in-between the breaks in the hedges that people have setup chairs, benches, and even grilling equipment. There must be enough room to maneuver back there.

[lorettalockhorn]

Boy, two snarking at me today. It didn't escape me. The lawyers on both sides did not make a deal. There was an objection and the judge ruled on it (jury not in the room)that since Jones himself admits to it on the tape all the prosecution witness would do is coorborate it.

I'm not snarking you at all. I've made the statement twice in two different posts and thought that I was being clear.

You'll have to pardon my skepticism that both sides didn't make a deal. I didn't think so at first, then thinking about it from a little different angle made me realize that they could have. But that is JMO.

[christina]

I wasn't in the courtroom for Brandy's testimony, but I was there for Trey's. The defense stated, during their cross examination of Trey, that he wore a ball cap and leather wristbands to his interrogation. The defense also said that a neighbor would testify that she saw a man wearing leather wristbands and a ball cap . . . and asked him if he ever took Nona's trash out. He said no. Christina, did Brandy testify to seeing a man in a ball cap? I must say that Trey and Kevin are very different in their height, appearance, and hair color. Trey is dark-haired, but he does not have a dark complexion, he had a rather light-complexion actually. Christina, could you agree? I believe that if Brandy stated that she saw this man, she wouldn't have gotten him confused with Kevin, but many, many people could fit the description she gave. Now, if she had explained someone with the characteristics of Jordan Harris, I believe she very well could've gotten Jordan and Kevin confused. Just food for thought, I guess.

Yes, Harris and Jones have similar physical characteristics.
Bean testified the man she saw had on a ball cap and that is why she did not get a good look at his face. To clarify-York was asked on the stand if he wore wrist bands and he said yes, leather ones. Bean testified he had things on his wrists.
I got the impresssion that Bean was describing York. And like said before, after Bean had Jones pointed out to her int he courtroom as the man she saw, and shesaid no, the prosecution objected when the defense was about to show a picture/video of York. The judge ruled in favor of the prosecution.

[oxfordwebster]

Bean testified the man she saw had on a ball cap and that is why she did not get a good look at his face. To clarify-York was asked on the stand if he wore wrist bands and he said yes, leather ones. Bean testified he had things on his wrists.So, how do you explain her describing someone with a dark complexion when jonikay says he had a light complexion in the court room?

[jonikay]

I'm well aware that Harris was a prosecution witness. My point that is escaping you, is that I think it was a mistake for the State to make a deal with the defense to not call any of KJ's partner(s). The jury saw Nona as having been unfaithful with JH, but never had an opportunity to see the likes of the girl/woman that Kevin was sleeping with.

I'm worried that God told the foreperson that Nona was unfaithful and didn't see that Kevin was equally if not more so, and for some reason decided that Jared? was a more likely suspect than the guy with the motive, opportunity and blood on his hands.

I may be losing it, but besides Harris and KJ, what other boy said that he had sex with Nona?
The only boy who admitted to having sex with Nona was Jordan Harris. Trey stated on the stand that he did not have sex with Nona.

[christina]

Well, Trey and Nona both had silver Mustangs (Trey's a newer model). Maybe Nona threw out Trey's keys and Trey drove away in his own vehicle and not Nona's. We know that Trey had told Nona to quit texting him as much, etc. because he felt she was taking advantage of him. Maybe that's what the confrontation between the two was about and Nona was refusing to let Trey leave, so he made a scene and she finally had to give him the keys so noone would call the police.

That has bothered me also, the text messages between them went right up to the 15th.-about 8 a day. This makes York's testimony about the level of their relationship less truthful.

[christina]

Thanks for answering my question from before. Christina mentioned the boys who testified for the prosecution that they had sex with Nona, and I could only remember JH.

Whew! I was worried that I had forgotten important testimony.

I was referring to Nona's friend(I think Sara Bailey)saying Nona had sex with someone as retaliation for something Jones did. Then Harris saying they had sex twice. York said that when she asked him to spend the night, they kissed but did not have sex.

[oxfordwebster]

That has bothered me also, the text messages between them went right up to the 15th.-about 8 a day. This makes York's testimony about the level of their relationship less truthful.Perhaps the level of text messages were so high because Trey wasn't seeing her, exactly as he claimed? If he had much more involvement with her, you'd think that instead of frequent text messages, they'd just talk in person.

[christina]

It was never mentioned during the trial, when I was there. Did you ever hear it mentioned while you were there. What was stated in the PCS and what was stated in the trial were different, imo. We spent all of this time on the forum hashing out the PCS and some of the things were never mentioned.

Agreed. Gibbons mentioned the FBI in public statements pre gag order.

[christina]

I'm not snarking you at all. I've made the statement twice in two different posts and thought that I was being clear.

You'll have to pardon my skepticism that both sides didn't make a deal. I didn't think so at first, then thinking about it from a little different angle made me realize that they could have. But that is JMO.

If they had made a deal it doesn't make sense to fight over it in court. I can not see the wisdom in that. After the prosecution objected, the defense fought it. It was the judge who made the ruling.

[lorettalockhorn]

I was referring to Nona's friend(I think Sara Bailey)saying Nona had sex with someone as retaliation for something Jones did. Then Harris saying they had sex twice. York said that when she asked him to spend the night, they kissed but did not have sex.

So Sara Bailey could have been referring to JH as the man that Nona had sex with to retaliate for whatever reason. That does not constitute two boys who were prosecution witnesses who admitted having sex with Nona as your previous post stated. I am certain that you referred to two boys who were witnesses for the prosecution as being Nona's sex partners.

[lorettalockhorn]

Perhaps the level of text messages were so high because Trey wasn't seeing her, exactly as he claimed? If he had much more involvement with her, you'd think that instead of frequent text messages, they'd just talk in person.

True, it makes no sense to have that level of message exchange if the are seeing each other. Is there any indication that any of those messages were of an intimate nature?

[lorettalockhorn]

If they had made a deal it doesn't make sense to fight over it in court. I can not see the wisdom in that. After the prosecution objected, the defense fought it. It was the judge who made the ruling.

Well, I wasn't there so obviously I didn't hear the sidebar. But it occurred to me that maybe they had discussed a deal of some sort behind closed doors and at that time in court, both decided to go with what had been discussed. I have no idea how audible the sidebar arguments were. is it possible that no one other than the judge and the attorneys know what was said?

[christina]

You made a claim that both sides named witnesses in court to a jury that they didn't intend to call, as a tactic. I asked you for an example of a prosecution witness, and you named the FBI profiler. You now back down and say that it was mentioned in the PCS, but you can't tell me that you heard it in court.

So, same tactic still?

You made a claim and can't back it up. My patience has run out on the topic and I'll let it stand. Everyone can read for themselves.

Yes same tactic- ask any lawyer. The one example I gave - FBI profiler -referred to someone named repeatedly and not called. I did not specify they were named in court.
Here are the names that the prosecution mentioned in court and did not call-
• Cole Hudson — Arkansas Tech University student
• Jason Kennedy — Pope County EMS.
• Chris Chappell — Russellville Fire Department
• Amy Pitts — Radiology student.
• Lance McVicker — Audio expert
• Brandon Curry — University of Arkansas student
• Duane Dipert — Dirksmeyer’s stepfather

[christina]

Well, I wasn't there so obviously I didn't hear the sidebar. But it occurred to me that maybe they had discussed a deal of some sort behind closed doors and at that time in court, both decided to go with what had been discussed. I have no idea how audible the sidebar arguments were. is it possible that no one other than the judge and the attorneys know what was said?

The court reporter takes her recording device up there so it is in the record. Also, depending on the subject, one or the other lawyers would speak loudly enough to get their point heard. Usually this was at times when the jury, but not the press, were out of the room. One time, a lawyer was speaking very loudly and a lawyer for the other side make a crack like "why don't you say it a little louder, I don't think the jury heard in the other room".

[oxfordwebster]

Yes same tactic- ask any lawyer. The one example I gave - FBI profiler -referred to someone named repeatedly and not called. I did not specify they were named in court.Oh, that's rich. We were specifically talking about that, but I'll let you get away with it.

Here are the names that the prosecution mentioned in court and did not call-
• Cole Hudson — Arkansas Tech University student
• Jason Kennedy — Pope County EMS.
• Chris Chappell — Russellville Fire Department
• Amy Pitts — Radiology student.
• Lance McVicker — Audio expert
• Brandon Curry — University of Arkansas student
• Duane Dipert — Dirksmeyer’s stepfatherSo which of those had a leading description that could sway a jury just by hearing it? I don't see any "jewelry store employees" or "acquaintances of Nona's" in that list.

[christina]

Perhaps the level of text messages were so high because Trey wasn't seeing her, exactly as he claimed? If he had much more involvement with her, you'd think that instead of frequent text messages, they'd just talk in person.

Well, your and my messages to each other are far more than 8 a day. And who knows how each of us would characterize our relationship?!
I see no slack off in the messaging up until, and including the day of the murder as a reason to be suspicious. Text messagin might have been their main way to communicate. we know from expert testimony that sent messages are not saved on that phone unless the user chooses that each time. But calls/numbers will be.

[christina]

Oh, that's rich. We were specifically talking about that, but I'll let you get away with it.

So which of those had a leading description that could sway a jury just by hearing it? I don't see any "jewelry store employees" or "acquaintances of Nona's" in that list.

The snarking is starting to get on my nerves so I'm taking a break.
Have at it...............

[oxfordwebster]

Well, your and my messages to each other are far more than 8 a day. And who knows how each of us would characterize our relationship?!I can tell you that it'd be a big leap to say that we were together often while we were communicating via all of these messages.

I see no slack off in the messaging up until, and including the day of the murder as a reason to be suspicious.You mean he didn't communicate with her by text message after she died? Imagine that.

If you are referencing a slack in text messaging that day, I don't know what you expected the guy to do while he was taking tests, moving out of his dorm, and whatever else.

If you have specific information on the number of text messages each day though, I'd love to see it. You seem to have that information, or you wouldn't claim that there was a slack "up until, and including" the day Nona died.

[oxfordwebster]

The snarking is starting to get on my nerves so I'm taking a break.
Have at it...............Christina, for once I can't apologize for any perceived hostility from me. You made claims about a tactic that both sides were using, kept mentioning an FBI profiler, yet you wouldn't admit that the profiler in question wasn't mentioned to the jury. We were discussing tactics the defense were using, in court, in front of the jury.

You can claim snarkiness if you want, but if that's your reaction to being held accountable, so be it.

[oxfordwebster]

The court reporter takes her recording device up there so it is in the record. Also, depending on the subject, one or the other lawyers would speak loudly enough to get their point heard. Usually this was at times when the jury, but not the press, were out of the room. One time, a lawyer was speaking very loudly and a lawyer for the other side make a crack like "why don't you say it a little louder, I don't think the jury heard in the other room".Which lawyers were involved in this? Who was speaking loudly and who made the crack?

[LurkerNoMore]

You mean he didn't communicate with her by text message after she died?

Actually, didn't he send her a text message after she died? Something like, I heard something was wrong with you?

[oxfordwebster]

Actually, didn't he send her a text message after she died? Something like, I heard something was wrong with you?I tried to find it in the report on his testimony, but I didn't see anything like that. I do remember hearing it being talked about, though. So I'd like to see it in writing somewhere.

[lorettalockhorn]

The court reporter takes her recording device up there so it is in the record. Also, depending on the subject, one or the other lawyers would speak loudly enough to get their point heard. Usually this was at times when the jury, but not the press, were out of the room. One time, a lawyer was speaking very loudly and a lawyer for the other side make a crack like "why don't you say it a little louder, I don't think the jury heard in the other room".

So is it safe to say that it's not known exactly what was discussed in the sidebar except by those directly involved?

[LurkerNoMore]

I tried to find it in the report on his testimony, but I didn't see anything like that. I do remember hearing it being talked about, though. So I'd like to see it in writing somewhere.

http://arkansasmatters.com/content/fulltext/?cid=57536

Pasted here IN PART:

Trey York is a student at Arkansas Tech and former classmate of Nona Dirksmeyer. He claims he went on a date with Dirksmeyer and stayed the night at her apartment two times but insists the relationship was not sexual. The two send over 100 text messages to one another in the weeks before her death, but it was the messages sent to the Russellville beauty pageant queen the day on the day of her murder in December that the defense wanted to focus on today.

At 11:04 that morning he sent a message saying "Call me." AT 12:58 p.m. he sent another saying "Never mind." Dirksmeyer was murdered between 11 a.m. and 1 p.m., according to coroners. York says he sent these messages because he wanted to return an item before he left town. The day after her death, he sent another message at 9:18 a.m. saying, "Please call me, I heard something was wrong. I'm worried." York said on the stand that he heard from a friend that Dirksmeyer was found unconscious the night before. But the defense was trying to show inconsistencies in his statement about when he claims to have found out that information. It appears the defense will be calling York back to the stand before this trial is over.

[lorettalockhorn]

Actually, didn't he send her a text message after she died? Something like, I heard something was wrong with you?

It was reported on one of the news programs that York texted something along those lines to Nona around 9:18am on the morning of the 16th. Sometime between 10am and 11am, Walker talked to York and York told him that he knew that Nona was dead. Don't know if he learned that from his interview with LE or what. Some reports are that York had an attorney with him during a wee hours of the morning interview which most would probably consider to be before 9:18am.

[LurkerNoMore]

Some reports are that York had an attorney with him during a wee hours of the morning interview which most would probably consider to be before 9:18am.

I would imagine if a wee-hours interview occurred, it would have been late PM on the 16th or early AM on the 17th. Or even a later date. I imagine they had their hands full the night of the 15th.

[lorettalockhorn]

I would imagine if a wee-hours interview occurred, it would have been late PM on the 16th or early AM on the 17th. I imagine they had their hands full the night of the 15th.


Even a slacker like me doesn't consider 9:18am the wee hours. So if he did have an interview before dawn, say, I would wonder about what was told him that would make him text Nona to see if she was okay. Surely at some point during his interview, he was told that she was dead.

The wee hours has not been confirmed.

[oxfordwebster]

I would imagine if a wee-hours interview occurred, it would have been late PM on the 16th or early AM on the 17th. Or even a later date. I imagine they had their hands full the night of the 15th.Early documents revealed statements taken from York on December 16th. We've been led to believe by some (I believe Christina mentioned this) that he was suspect enough to bring back early on the 16th, but I have a hard time understanding that now if they are claiming he sent a message the next morning.

There was definitely an interview on the 16th. I'm really curious now, and I'm curious on if Trey admitted himself that he sent that text message, or if that was the defense saying he did.

[hawgustusgloop]

Even a slacker like me doesn't consider 9:18am the wee hours. So if he did have an interview before dawn, say, I would wonder about what was told him that would make him text Nona to see if she was okay. Surely at some point during his interview, he was told that she was dead.

The wee hours has not been confirmed.

Great point. Where was it originally stated that the police interviewed him in the "wee hours," and by whom?

[jonikay]

Early documents revealed statements taken from York on December 16th. We've been led to believe by some (I believe Christina mentioned this) that he was suspect enough to bring back early on the 16th, but I have a hard time understanding that now if they are claiming he sent a message the next morning.

There was definitely an interview on the 16th. I'm really curious now, and I'm curious on if Trey admitted himself that he sent that text message, or if that was the defense saying he did.
IIRC, Trey confirmed that he sent Nona the text on the 16th asking if she was ok because he had heard rumors about her. The defense did counter that by stating that Walker already told him Nona was dead (around 10pm on the 15th). Trey said he did not know that she was dead. Apparently, Walker told Trey that he called to tell him that she was found in a pool of blood. Trey texted her around 9-930 the next morning, Walker calls again around 11 and tells her that Nona, in fact, was dead and at that point, Trey said he already knew. I don't know if he was interviewed between these times or if he heard it on the news . . .

[lorettalockhorn]

IIRC, Trey confirmed that he sent Nona the text on the 16th asking if she was ok because he had heard rumors about her. The defense did counter that by stating that Walker already told him Nona was dead (around 10pm on the 15th). Trey said he did not know that she was dead. Apparently, Walker told Trey that he called to tell him that she was found in a pool of blood. Trey texted her around 9-930 the next morning, Walker calls again around 11 and tells her that Nona, in fact, was dead and at that point, Trey said he already knew. I don't know if he was interviewed between these times or if he heard it on the news . . .

jk, that is pretty much the way that I remember it reported. One news station made it sound like the defense was trying to infer that Trey knew that Nona was dead before the 9:18am text message on the 16th. But again, that hinges on when he was interviewed and what he was told. I'll grant that if LE told him in the wee hours of the morning that Nona was either serously injured or dead, it makes no sense for him to text her to find out how she is. She was either in the hospital or the morgue for all he knew. The inference by the defense was that the 9:18am message was a coverup for having firsthand knowledge of her death.

[nobody]

Her professor knew that she was at her home - from a conversation they had that day on the phone. I'm just throwing this random thought out there.
It has been known to happen before - grades traded for sex acts. Feel free to tear this apart as you like - especially if you can attest to the professionalism of the professor. For all I know, the professor could have been a female, which would disprove my idea.

[lorettalockhorn]

Her professor knew that she was at her home - from a conversation they had that day on the phone. I'm just throwing this random thought out there.
It has been known to happen before - grades traded for sex acts. Feel free to tear this apart as you like - especially if you can attest to the professionalism of the professor. For all I know, the professor could have been a female, which would disprove my idea.


The professor that Nona spoke with that morning was Holly Ruth Gale who as far as I know, has a spotless reputation and is respected professionally. She is well known in the area, since she is quite talented and has performed publicly for years.

[nobody]

I didn't really want to suspect that scenario -

[TJEddie]

nobody, I've been reading your "Facts Only" thread.....some very interesting stuff in there indeed. Thanks for doing that.

[oxfordwebster]

nobody, I've been reading your "Facts Only" thread.....some very interesting stuff in there indeed. Thanks for doing that.I'm not following it, but I did skim it and saw that Brent Hunnicut was an honorary pallbearer at Nona's funeral. Interesting.

[lorettalockhorn]

Looks like most folks on the witness list are identified by occupation or connection to the parties, (I guess if the testimony was of a personal nature). From The Courier:

Brent Hunnicutt — Jewelry store employee.

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15313&Search=dirksmeyer

This Courier version is slightly different from what was first published.

[nobody]

nobody, I've been reading your "Facts Only" thread.....some very interesting stuff in there indeed. Thanks for doing that.

I also have a "Timeline" thread that I am about to start. I hope it paints a clearer image.

[nobody]

From the Arvest Bank photos - do we know what color vehicle KJ and JH were driving in? They were reportedly at the bank very close to the time the Green SUV was reported at Nona's.

[oxfordwebster]

From the Arvest Bank photos - do we know what color vehicle KJ and JH were driving in? They were reportedly at the bank very close to the time the Green SUV was reported at Nona's.? Where is this report?

[hawgustusgloop]

Her professor knew that she was at her home - from a conversation they had that day on the phone. I'm just throwing this random thought out there.
It has been known to happen before - grades traded for sex acts. Feel free to tear this apart as you like - especially if you can attest to the professionalism of the professor. For all I know, the professor could have been a female, which would disprove my idea.

Regardless of that, I believe Nona was not Holly Gale's student at the time. IIRC, she testified that their phone conversation was about how she could switch from her current applied voice teacher to Holly Gale without the current studio teacher's feelings being hurt. I may have misunderstood what I read, though.

[lorettalockhorn]

Regardless of that, I believe Nona was not Holly Gale's student at the time. IIRC, she testified that their phone conversation was about how she could switch from her current applied voice teacher to Holly Gale without the current studio teacher's feelings being hurt. I may have misunderstood what I read, though.

I think that you're exactly right. Other than the class piano section that she had with Mrs. Kiehl and the biology class with Prof. Fill-in-the-Blank, I have no idea what classes she was taking.

[sololobo]

? Where is this report?

"James Evans also resides in the Ingelwood Apartments. He said that he and his wife are both bail bondsmen. He reported that he saw Dirksmeyer's car at her apartment at 8:10 a.m. He said around 2:30 p.m. he was talking to his brother outside the apartment complex. He said her car was in front of her apartment and that he also saw a green SUV. He said he had been to her door earlier in the week when he was inquiring about a dead cat he had found. He reported that Nona answered the door. He told the jurors that he did not see any damage to the door frame earlier in the week."


http://www.atkinschronicle.com/dt1.htm

[nobody]

Three Arvest Bank locations come up when I do a google-search. Location A would be logical - being that it is near the Marva donation site - but I do not want to assume.

A.819 S Arkansas Ave
B.3005 W Main pl
C.205 W Walnut

Also, do we know how much money he withdrew?

[oxfordwebster]

"James Evans also resides in the Ingelwood Apartments. He said that he and his wife are both bail bondsmen. He reported that he saw Dirksmeyer's car at her apartment at 8:10 a.m. He said around 2:30 p.m. he was talking to his brother outside the apartment complex. He said her car was in front of her apartment and that he also saw a green SUV. He said he had been to her door earlier in the week when he was inquiring about a dead cat he had found. He reported that Nona answered the door. He told the jurors that he did not see any damage to the door frame earlier in the week."


http://www.atkinschronicle.com/dt1.htmThanks, solo.

[neutattoo]

Three Arvest Bank locations come up when I do a google-search. Location A would be logical - being that it is near the Marva donation site - but I do not want to assume.

A.819 S Arkansas Ave
B.3005 W Main pl
C.205 W Walnut

Also, do we know how much money he withdrew?It was location A. I don't have a link to prove that but remember reading it some where. I'm sure some one could find the link for you.

[nobody]

Just a logical speculation...
The room was reported "dark". Initially, Kevin Jones may have tended to Nona - but then reached for the lightswitch (leaving blood) and once that did not work - he reached for the lamp switch (leaving a bloody finger and palm print) when he attempts to screw in a possible loose bulb. Then again - he more than likely would have remembered doing this.

My other thought - why would blood traces be on a candle holder. I have no reasoning on this.

[nobody]

It was location A. I don't have a link to prove that but remember reading it some where. I'm sure some one could find the link for you.

Thanks. By the way - I like what you have done with the T-Shirts website. Have you considered building a website Icon - that would link to the basic information. (Something that could be attached to other websites).

[nobody]

There is an obviously huge issue of rumor and social divide in this society. Why would the RPD not allow Kevin Jones to contact the parents of Nona? Did he at any time threaten or disrespect this family? My only knowledge is that Kevin was not allowed to sit with Nona's family (a push away) - based on unproven evidence that was put under there nose by the RPD. (?)

It seems to me that the Mayor (who has been mostly silent - except for a small mention of his relative's innocence) should have stepped in, using his public voice - that got him elected. This responsibility should have had the community working together to solve this case - not legally divided with assumptions built by the RPD.

[optimumprimal78]

There is an obviously huge issue of rumor and social divide in this society. Why would the RPD not allow Kevin Jones to contact the parents of Nona? Did he at any time threaten or disrespect this family? My only knowledge is that Kevin was not allowed to sit with Nona's family (a push away) - based on unproven evidence that was put under there nose by the RPD. (?)

It seems to me that the Mayor (who has been mostly silent - except for a small mention of his relative's innocence) should have stepped in, using his public voice - that got him elected. This responsibility should have had the community working together to solve this case - not legally divided with assumptions built by the RPD.

I think that they wanted to prevent any potential problems that they could. I don't know if he disrespected any of the family but would you feel comfortable around the person the POTENTIALLY killed your daughter? Probably not.

The mayor that is in office now (Williamson) was not the one that made the comment. It was the former mayor Turner talking about her son (who has had a few problems of his own).

[LurkerNoMore]

"James Evans also resides in the Ingelwood Apartments. He said that he and his wife are both bail bondsmen. He reported that he saw Dirksmeyer's car at her apartment at 8:10 a.m. He said around 2:30 p.m. he was talking to his brother outside the apartment complex. He said her car was in front of her apartment and that he also saw a green SUV. He said he had been to her door earlier in the week when he was inquiring about a dead cat he had found. He reported that Nona answered the door. He told the jurors that he did not see any damage to the door frame earlier in the week."

Well, there goes the theory about Nona being so concerned with security that she never answered the door if she didn't receive a call first, etc.

[nobody]

I think that they wanted to prevent any potential problems that they could. I don't know if he disrespected any of the family but would you feel comfortable around the person the POTENTIALLY killed your daughter? Probably not.

The mayor that is in office now (Williamson) was not the one that made the comment. It was the former mayor Turner talking about her son (who has had a few problems of his own).

If it was a restraining order requested by Nona's family - then I understand. If the RPD separated the familys on their own - then I think they only hurt the case and caused a family feud.

[oxfordwebster]

Well, there goes the theory about Nona being so concerned with security that she never answered the door if she didn't receive a call first, etc.Or it was a neighbor who she knew and could see through that... thing... in the door. I don't know what they're called.

Multiple people who actually knew her, one living with her, testified differently than what you are claiming. One neighbor doesn't change that.

[lorettalockhorn]

There is an obviously huge issue of rumor and social divide in this society. Why would the RPD not allow Kevin Jones to contact the parents of Nona? Did he at any time threaten or disrespect this family? My only knowledge is that Kevin was not allowed to sit with Nona's family (a push away) - based on unproven evidence that was put under there nose by the RPD. (?)

It seems to me that the Mayor (who has been mostly silent - except for a small mention of his relative's innocence) should have stepped in, using his public voice - that got him elected. This responsibility should have had the community working together to solve this case - not legally divided with assumptions built by the RPD.

RPD didn't keep Kevin from contacting Nona's family, the restraining order did. I've filed information for restraining orders on behalf of many people, and the signature of the applicant is required. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the Dirksmeyer/Dipert family at some point requested a restraining order through the prosecuting attorney's office, don't know the date it was issued, or the time period covered. RPD's role would be to enforce the order if it was breached in the city limits.

The mayor has no business speaking about this, IMO. We were told that several different agencies were working on this case; the liaison of those agencies would be the one to speak, and of course that wouldn't be possible after the gag order was in effect. (It has already been pointed out that Rae Turner, mother of Bubba Turner was mayor at the time.) With regard to rumor and divisiveness, there are minimally two communities involved; three, if you count Tech as a community; four, if you count this board, etc.

Are you talking about at the funeral here: My only knowledge is that Kevin was not allowed to sit with Nona's family (a push away). Is it possible that pallbearers sat elsewhere during the funeral? Is it possible that there was a contingent of KJ's family or friends, schoolmates that sat together away from Nona's family?Is it possible that the family had information or suspicions about KJ before the funeral that would cause them to want to distance themselves?

[lorettalockhorn]

Well, there goes the theory about Nona being so concerned with security that she never answered the door if she didn't receive a call first, etc.

Not much of the neighbor's testimony was reported in the press. How do we know that he didn't tell Nona through the door that he was there to inquire about her cat? We have no idea if she could see him or recognize his voice, for instance. She would might likely have opened the door if someone expressing concern for her cats, especially if it was someone that she knew.

[nobody]

Thank you for clarification and putting me back on track, Loretta.

[nobody]

It seems the neighbor was around most of the day and he took interest in Nona - to some degree. Maybe it is not unusual. Honestly, I think any guy (married or not) would have noticed or taken interest in the cute girl next door also.

Then again - maybe she had parked in his spot before and he was a little irritated - j/k.

[lorettalockhorn]

Thank you for clarification and putting me back on track, Loretta.


Not really trying to clarify anything, since I don't know; it's just that there is plenty of room for interpretation.

[hawgustusgloop]

RPD didn't keep Kevin from contacting Nona's family, the restraining order did. I've filed information for restraining orders on behalf of many people, and the signature of the applicant is required. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the Dirksmeyer/Dipert family at some point requested a restraining order through the prosecuting attorney's office, don't know the date it was issued, or the time period covered. RPD's role would be to enforce the order if it was breached in the city limits.

The mayor has no business speaking about this, IMO. We were told that several different agencies were working on this case; the liaison of those agencies would be the one to speak, and of course that wouldn't be possible after the gag order was in effect. (It has already been pointed out that Rae Turner, mother of Bubba Turner was mayor at the time.) With regard to rumor and divisiveness, there are minimally two communities involved; three, if you count Tech as a community; four, if you count this board, etc.

Are you talking about at the funeral here: My only knowledge is that Kevin was not allowed to sit with Nona's family (a push away). Is it possible that pallbearers sat elsewhere during the funeral? Is it possible that there was a contingent of KJ's family or friends, schoolmates that sat together away from Nona's family?Is it possible that the family had information or suspicions about KJ before the funeral that would cause them to want to distance themselves?

Everything I have seen about where K.Jo would sit at the funeral was worded something like, "He was asked not to sit with the family." They may have been very polite in asking, so as not to cause a scene or tip him off that they suspected him until after her funeral. Her family may have just had the ushers take care of it and seat him elsewhere. I don't think they said anything like, "We don't want you anywhere near us, you murderer!" I believe one of the articles in nobody's fact thread says that the police visited with the Diperts the night before the funeral and told them that K.Jo was a suspect (I presume they also gave them some inkling of why they believed that, but I don't know for sure).

[lorettalockhorn]

One of the great things about funeral directors is that they are trained to handle almost any contingency with extreme tact. I think it's entirely possible that funeral home personnel handled the situation at the family's request. I agree that minimally, the Diperts were led to believe that KJ was a suspect the night before the funeral.

[lorettalockhorn]

Is anyone else curious about this testimony? From The Courier: The state also called William “Trey” Whatley, a computer crime agent and computer forensic examiner with the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Little Rock.
Whatley testified that activity recorded on DIRKSMEYER’s computer about 11 a.m. on the day of the murder was “an automated activity done by Microsoft Messenger,” and was in no way consistent with anyone having physically accessed DIRKSMEYER’s computer.
Defense witness Bruce Smith, a vice president of digital investigations with Norcross Group, testified Tuesday that he did not believe the files he recovered, which included two photos depicting a young couple and a young girl, “were associated with MSN.” He could not say whether they were automatically generated or not.
Whatley testified Wednesday that the files transferred to DIRKSMEYER’s computer at about 11 a.m. and later were consistent in size with MSN Messenger profile photos. Messenger is an Internet service which allows users to chat one-on-one with “contacts.” Many Messenger subscribers list personal photos alongside their usernames.

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15436&Search=dirksmeyer

My computer automatically signs me into MSN, Yahoo and gtalk instant messenger programs when it's turned on, so I can see that Nona wouldn't have had to be the one to have necessarily been using the computer at 11am. I am curious about the second guy's testimony. Is he talking about the avatar that she might have been using? Has anyone who was in the habit of IMing with Nona ever said that her avatar was changed, or what it was before her death?

OR maybe I'm just too Elliterate to understand this testimony.

[hawgustusgloop]

Is anyone else curious about this testimony? From The Courier: The state also called William “Trey” Whatley, a computer crime agent and computer forensic examiner with the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Little Rock.
Whatley testified that activity recorded on DIRKSMEYER’s computer about 11 a.m. on the day of the murder was “an automated activity done by Microsoft Messenger,” and was in no way consistent with anyone having physically accessed DIRKSMEYER’s computer.
Defense witness Bruce Smith, a vice president of digital investigations with Norcross Group, testified Tuesday that he did not believe the files he recovered, which included two photos depicting a young couple and a young girl, “were associated with MSN.” He could not say whether they were automatically generated or not.
Whatley testified Wednesday that the files transferred to DIRKSMEYER’s computer at about 11 a.m. and later were consistent in size with MSN Messenger profile photos. Messenger is an Internet service which allows users to chat one-on-one with “contacts.” Many Messenger subscribers list personal photos alongside their usernames.

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15436&Search=dirksmeyer

My computer automatically signs me into MSN, Yahoo and gtalk instant messenger programs when it's turned on, so I can see that Nona wouldn't have had to be the one to have necessarily been using the computer at 11am. I am curious about the second guy's testimony. Is he talking about the avatar that she might have been using? Has anyone who was in the habit of IMing with Nona ever said that her avatar was changed, or what it was before her death?

OR maybe I'm just too Elliterate to understand this testimony.

I am super Elliterate, so I don't know if I can be of much help, BUT I do remember something in the news months ago about someone accessing a photo of another pageant contestant. IIRC, I think they had the time mixed up and later corrected it to around 11:15 a.m. on the day of her murder. I wonder if the photo of the young girl or the girl in one of the couples photos were of the pageant contestant. I would be interested to know if that person was on her MSN contact list.

I am really confused how one expert would say the files are consistent with MSN profile photos, and the other would say they are not. I would think this issue is much less "up for interpretation" than other expert testimony topics in the case.

[lorettalockhorn]

I am super Elliterate, so I don't know if I can be of much help, BUT I do remember something in the news months ago about someone accessing a photo of another pageant contestant. IIRC, I think they had the time mixed up and later corrected it to around 11:15 a.m. on the day of her murder. I wonder if the photo of the young girl or the girl in one of the couples photos were of the pageant contestant. I would be interested to know if that person was on her MSN contact list.

I am really confused how one expert would say the files are consistent with MSN profile photos, and the other would say they are not. I would think this issue is much less "up for interpretation" than other expert testimony topics in the case.

I understand this statement and agree.

Maybe sololobo could help us out!

[oxfordwebster]

My computer automatically signs me into MSN, Yahoo and gtalk instant messenger programs when it's turned on, so I can see that Nona wouldn't have had to be the one to have necessarily been using the computer at 11am. I am curious about the second guy's testimony. Is he talking about the avatar that she might have been using? Has anyone who was in the habit of IMing with Nona ever said that her avatar was changed, or what it was before her death?

OR maybe I'm just too Elliterate to understand this testimony.It could be as simple as somebody else signing in while Nona's MSN was still online, and that person could have a profile picture attached to their MSN name. That picture would be stored in the cache of Nona's computer.

[lorettalockhorn]

It could be as simple as somebody else signing in while Nona's MSN was still online, and that person could have a profile picture attached to their MSN name. That picture would be stored in the cache of Nona's computer.

Hey ox, didn't mean to leave out anyone who could explain. Not by any means!

So Nona was or could have been signed in to MSA at any time that day and when someone used her puter to log on to their own MSN site, the hard drive simply made note of Nona's avatar?

[oxfordwebster]

Hey ox, didn't mean to leave out anyone who could explain. Not by any means!

So Nona was or could have been signed in to MSA at any time that day and when someone used her puter to log on to their own MSN site, the hard drive simply made note of Nona's avatar?Nope, simpler than that. Her MSN could have been signed on, and one of her friends could have signed into their MSN anywher else. Nona's computer would have received a notification that her friend signed on, and often MSN transfers profile pictures at this same time.

So, say a pageant friend of Nona's signed into MSN, and she had a pageant picture of herself as her MSN picture. Nona's computer would have seen that she signed on, received the profile picture, and viola, you have an MSN-sized pageant picture that was created automatically because Nona was signed into MSN.

[lorettalockhorn]

Nope, simpler than that. Her MSN could have been signed on, and one of her friends could have signed into their MSN anywher else. Nona's computer would have received a notification that her friend signed on, and often MSN transfers profile pictures at this same time.

So, say a pageant friend of Nona's signed into MSN, and she had a pageant picture of herself as her MSN picture. Nona's computer would have seen that she signed on, received the profile picture, and viola, you have an MSN-sized pageant picture that was created automatically because Nona was signed into MSN.

Oh, okay. Like when I receive an online (or offline for that matter) message. Thanks. :beer:

[hawgustusgloop]

Oh, okay. Like when I receive an online (or offline for that matter) message. Thanks. :beer:

I guess it's like when I'm signed in to Yahoo Messenger (I've never used MSN but I would guess it's similar), and one of my "buddies" signs on, there's a little window where it says, "susieQ is now online" and it shows that person's avatar. A similar thing pops up when the buddy logs off. Maybe the two pictures of the couple ended up on her computer when one of her contacts signed on and then later signed off MSN?

[lorettalockhorn]

I guess it's like when I'm signed in to Yahoo Messenger (I've never used MSN but I would guess it's similar), and one of my "buddies" signs on, there's a little window where it says, "susieQ is now online" and it shows that person's avatar. A similar thing pops up when the buddy logs off. Maybe the two pictures of the couple ended up on her computer when one of her contacts signed on and then later signed off MSN?


Aha! I see that your friends don't use stealth mode!

Makes sense to me. Thanks y'all for explaining. Now I wonder why the heck it was meaningful to have experts testify to all this?

[oxfordwebster]

Makes sense to me. Thanks y'all for explaining. Now I wonder why the heck it was meaningful to have experts testify to all this?Smoke and mirrors, the way defense justice works.

[lorettalockhorn]

Regardless of that, I believe Nona was not Holly Gale's student at the time. IIRC, she testified that their phone conversation was about how she could switch from her current applied voice teacher to Holly Gale without the current studio teacher's feelings being hurt. I may have misunderstood what I read, though.

So she had the applied voice class with Nita Herrick (?), biology with Prof Who'sIt, class piano with Vicky Kiehl, and calculus (according to the Atkins Chronicle link that Solo linked) with Who Knows. Depending on the courses, that's only nine or ten hours, so she probably had at least one other class.

[hawgustusgloop]

So she had the applied voice class with Nita Herrick (?), biology with Prof Who'sIt, class piano with Vicky Kiehl, and calculus (according to the Atkins Chronicle link that Solo linked) with Who Knows. Depending on the courses, that's only nine or ten hours, so she probably had at least one other class.

If she was a music major since her first semester, and was a sophomore, she was probably taking Music Theory III and Ear Training III, which together would be 4 credit hours. I also remember an early interview with a member of the Concert Choir? who said their concert was the first thing they had done without Nona, so she was probably enrolled in a larger singing ensemble as well, which IIRC is 1 credit hour.

[lorettalockhorn]

If she was a music major since her first semester, and was a sophomore, she was probably taking Music Theory III and Ear Training III, which together would be 4 credit hours. I also remember an early interview with a member of the Concert Choir? who said their concert was the first thing they had done without Nona, so she was probably enrolled in a larger singing ensemble as well, which IIRC is 1 credit hour.

K, I'm looking at the Fall '05 schedule and I see that only Music Theory I and Ear Training I were offered that semester, so she must have been taking something else. (The level one courses were taught by Parker and Smith.) Like you say, those four hours would have put her at full time. There are any number of instructors for Biology and Calculus classes.

[hawgustusgloop]

Aha! I see that your friends don't use stealth mode!

Makes sense to me. Thanks y'all for explaining. Now I wonder why the heck it was meaningful to have experts testify to all this?

What I would guess is.....

Does anyone remember when one of the defense attorneys said (was it in the opening statements?) something along the lines of "what if it could be shown Nona was alive after that?"

I wonder if they weren't originally thinking of trying to narrow the window of opportunity for K.Jo to have committed the crime by suggesting that Nona was alive and at her computer at 11:15 a.m? Then, K.Jo went to get lunch money from Granny (if you can believe Granny) at 11:30. So under that scenario, he would only have 15 minutes to murder her and get to the gas station, which would be impossible.

[oxfordwebster]

What I would guess is.....

Does anyone remember when one of the defense attorneys said (was it in the opening statements?) something along the lines of "what if it could be shown Nona was alive after that?"

I wonder if they weren't originally thinking of trying to narrow the window of opportunity for K.Jo to have committed the crime by suggesting that Nona was alive and at her computer at 11:15 a.m? Then, K.Jo went to get lunch money from Granny (if you can believe Granny) at 11:30. So under that scenario, he would only have 15 minutes to murder her and get to the gas station, which would be impossible.Way back when, the three stooges claimed that Nona was using Kevin's computer and that they were able to get chat logs off it. Assuming that was true, and from what I heard in town they were definitely connected to Kevin's camp, then they would have used chat logs if she was actually on MSN and talking to someone.

[lorettalockhorn]

Way back when, the three stooges claimed that Nona was using Kevin's computer and that they were able to get chat logs off it. Assuming that was true, and from what I heard in town they were definitely connected to Kevin's camp, then they would have used chat logs if she was actually on MSN and talking to someone.

Well, it occurred to me that KJ may have been using a laptop for at least part of the day since he logged onto the UofA system at 1:04pm (one minute before JH clocked out from work at the Bayou) and was logged in and used email a few times that afternoon. But I don't know if any of that was testified too. If KJ was in the habit of lurking/reading/eavesdropping Nona's IMs or archives, and knew her log in, that could be used in part for his alibi as well as possibly motive? Weren't the computers that were of interest (I think specifically to the defense); Nona's, KJ's and Martin's? Wonder why there was testimony about Nona's but not the guys'.

[oxfordwebster]

Well, it occurred to me that KJ may have been using a laptop for at least part of the day since he logged onto the UofA system at 1:04pm (one minute before JH clocked out from work at the Bayou) and was logged in and used email a few times that afternoon. But I don't know if any of that was testified too. If KJ was in the habit of lurking/reading/eavesdropping Nona's IMs or archives, and knew her log in, that could be used in part for his alibi as well as possibly motive? Weren't the computers that were of interest (I think specifically to the defense); Nona's, KJ's and Martin's? Wonder why there was testimony about Nona's but not the guys'.I should really repost some of those three stooges posts, but I don't know if I'll get in trouble.

[hawgustusgloop]

I should really repost some of those three stooges posts, but I don't know if I'll get in trouble.

You won't get in trouble for reposting them in the PM inbox of hawgustusgloop! Maybe you can just paraphrase like you did with the "chat log" post and put them here? Why do I never think to save stuff like that for later?

[lorettalockhorn]

You won't get in trouble for reposting them in the PM inbox of hawgustusgloop! Maybe you can just paraphrase like you did with the "chat log" post and put them here? Why do I never think to save stuff like that for later?

Hawg, you are so smart!! (And beautiful and rich, of course.)

ox, lorettalockhorn has a PM too. :seeya: (And YM)

[hawgustusgloop]

Well, it occurred to me that KJ may have been using a laptop for at least part of the day since he logged onto the UofA system at 1:04pm (one minute before JH clocked out from work at the Bayou) and was logged in and used email a few times that afternoon. But I don't know if any of that was testified too. If KJ was in the habit of lurking/reading/eavesdropping Nona's IMs or archives, and knew her log in, that could be used in part for his alibi as well as possibly motive? Weren't the computers that were of interest (I think specifically to the defense); Nona's, KJ's and Martin's? Wonder why there was testimony about Nona's but not the guys'.

Was K.Jo at the Bayou when he was online? How would he get online with a laptop? That place doesn't strike me as a Wi-Fi kinda place, but I could be wrong.

[lorettalockhorn]

Was K.Jo at the Bayou when he was online? How would he get online with a laptop? That place doesn't strike me as a Wi-Fi kinda place, but I could be wrong.

Dunno, it is in nobody's timeline that he logged on to the UofA system at 1:04pm. But we know that JH didn't clock out until 1:05pm (according to Paula Brown's testimony) for the two to go to Rville to do their errands.

Agree that the Bayou doesn't seem like a WiFi kind of place.

[hawgustusgloop]

Hawg, you are so smart!! (And beautiful and rich, of course.)

ox, lorettalockhorn has a PM too. :seeya: (And YM)

Alas, here I am, having never personally approved more of any post in my entire life, yet unable to give positive rep points since I haven't spread around enough rep points lately. I approve, lorettalockhorn, I approve!:)

[lorettalockhorn]

Alas, here I am, having never personally approved more of any post in my entire life, yet unable to give positive rep points since I haven't spread around enough rep points lately. I approve, lorettalockhorn, I approve!:)

LMAO You're spreading it on pretty thick there!

I'm searching for the post that states that KJ logged on to the UofA system; seems like there was a question about what it is called and jonikay clarified for us, but I'm not finding it.

[sololobo]

Was K.Jo at the Bayou when he was online? How would he get online with a laptop? That place doesn't strike me as a Wi-Fi kinda place, but I could be wrong.

Did Kevin have an internet capable cell phone?

[sololobo]

I understand this statement and agree.

Maybe sololobo could help us out!

Oxfordwebster beat me to it, loretta:)

[lorettalockhorn]

Oxfordwebster beat me to it, loretta:)

Thanks! Another explanation probably wouldn't hurt. :punch:

Anyway, this is from The Courier:
Rodney Williams, a civil engineering professor and Jones’ academic adviser at the University of Arkansas at Fayetteville, said he communicated with Jones by e-mail at 1:35 and 4:51 p.m. Dec. 15. He also produced a document that showed Jones logged in to the UA’s computerized class registration system twice that afternoon: at 1:04 p.m. and 4:47 p.m.

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15425&Search=dirksmeyer

[hawgustusgloop]

LMAO You're spreading it on pretty thick there!

I'm searching for the post that states that KJ logged on to the UofA system; seems like there was a question about what it is called and jonikay clarified for us, but I'm not finding it.

Here's where jonikay tells us about the system, but I'm still looking for the times:

This is just imo, but how many freakin witnesses that testify to seeing Kevin after 1 does a jury need to see and hear. I thought the murder took place before 1. They have agreed on that, right? It just aggravates me. Also, and I know how easy it is to hash it out over simple, petty things, but I guess he logged on to the computer at the station at 240, otherwise it only takes him 5 minutes to get to his house from the station. You're correct, ISIS is UArk's everything for a student. Accounts, schedules, grades, blah blah. It's SIS at ATU.

I'll keep looking.

[hawgustusgloop]

>super snip<
Next was Jones' advisor from U of A, Rodney Williams-testified Jones logged onto the ISIS(?) program (registry f program for the university) at 1 pm. E-mailed him at 1:35 , 2:40 and 4:51 asking for help with changing his spring schedule. He was tyring to register for Chemistry II.
Gary Burton, former owner of Bayou Cafe testified he talked with Jones around 2:30 about the money owed for the fantasy baseball league they are in together. Jones was "normal".


This was from her (christina's) summary of one of the day's proceedings......

[oxfordwebster]

Dunno, it is in nobody's timeline that he logged on to the UofA system at 1:04pm. But we know that JH didn't clock out until 1:05pm (according to Paula Brown's testimony) for the two to go to Rville to do their errands.

Agree that the Bayou doesn't seem like a WiFi kind of place.If there isn't an explanation for this, then I'm going to stop pretending--the justice system really does take all your money while you're sleeping and gambles it away at the casinos.

Maybe, just maybe, they had a WiFi setup for their own personal use, and he happened to have a laptop. I'm not going to believe it until someone can show me some testimony that that is what he was doing, because I think he could have said something about logging into the system. It's pretty clear he was trying to make as much of an alibi as he could for the afternoon.

[lorettalockhorn]

If there isn't an explanation for this, then I'm going to stop pretending--the justice system really does take all your money while you're sleeping and gambles it away at the casinos.

Maybe, just maybe, they had a WiFi setup for their own personal use, and he happened to have a laptop. I'm not going to believe it until someone can show me some testimony that that is what he was doing, because I think he could have said something about logging into the system. It's pretty clear he was trying to make as much of an alibi as he could for the afternoon.

Okay, so KJ logged onto the system maybe while he was waiting for JH to clock out. After JH clocked out, they went to the rents' house to pick up the Marva donation, then drove to Rville, Marva, Arvest bank and back to Dover. Williams testified that KJ emailed him at 1:35; would that have been while he was still at home? If he and Huggins didn't leave on their errands until after 1:35, would they be hard pressed to make it back to Dover in time for Jones to drop Huggins off and go back to the station?

The Arvest bank receipt is time stamped 2:24pm.

[lorettalockhorn]

OT: but I wonder how Huggins got to work that day. He stated that after the errands that KJ dropped him off at his apartment. Is the Bayou within walking distance? (The witness list shows JH's address as 286 Wall Street.)

[hawgustusgloop]

Okay, so KJ logged onto the system maybe while he was waiting for JH to clock out. After JH clocked out, they went to the rents' house to pick up the Marva donation, then drove to Rville, Marva, Arvest bank and back to Dover. Williams testified that KJ emailed him at 1:35; would that have been while he was still at home? If he and Huggins didn't leave on their errands until after 1:35, would they be hard pressed to make it back to Dover in time for Jones to drop Huggins off and go back to the station?

The Arvest bank receipt is time stamped 2:24pm.

You know what? IMO K.Jo's timeline/alibi is a danged mess. We've been hashing this stuff out for weeks, the plethora of activities and errands this kid seemed to cram into one day. How could he do this in that amount of time, how can he email from the cafe/his vehicle, whatever, etc. That jury IMO must have been full of geniuses and speedreaders to sift through and decipher all that along with the rest of the evidence in just a few hours.

Also, why would K.Jo wait around for a long time just to have some dude go with him to MARVA and to the bank? I would think he'd want to grab something quick to eat at home, go on his errands alone, and try to go by Nona's to spend time with his beloved girlfriend while he was in the area. After all, he did just return from Fayetteville.

[oxfordwebster]

You know what? IMO K.Jo's timeline/alibi is a danged mess. We've been hashing this stuff out for weeks, the plethora of activities and errands this kid seemed to cram into one day. How could he do this in that amount of time, how can he email from the cafe/his vehicle, whatever, etc. That jury IMO must have been full of geniuses and speedreaders to sift through and decipher all that along with the rest of the evidence in just a few hours.I'm going to stand by my derision of the jury until the day I die. This new discussion is making me so livid that I don't even think I can participate in it.

:mad:

[hawgustusgloop]

I'm going to stand by my derision of the jury until the day I die. This new discussion is making me so livid that I don't even think I can participate in it.

:mad:

Oxfordwebster, there is no need to expend energy deriding the jury.......

When they give us quotes like these all by themselves:
http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/196134/

“We were led by the evidence and guided by God,” he added.


The killer “did a terrible deed, and I pray to God they bring to justice the man that done it,” the juror said.

Asked about a light bulb with Jones’ bloody palm print investigators found at the murder scene, Cobb said, “We couldn’t put that at the time of the crime.”

And this article doesn't even contain all those gems from the forewoman.

[neutattoo]

It could be possible that the cafe had a computer and KJ was using it while waiting for his friend to finish up working.

[TJEddie]

Ever hear the term "helicopter parent"? It's a recently coined term to describe parents who continue to hover over their college age kids..... running interference for them on class schedules, grade disputes, career options, etc. I think you see where I'm going with this.....just because the emails came from Kevin's address doesn't mean he was the one typing them.

Just a thought.

[hawgustusgloop]

Ever hear the term "helicopter parent"? It's a recently coined term to describe parents who continue to hover over their college age kids..... running interference for them on class schedules, grade disputes, career options, etc. I think you see where I'm going with this.....just because the emails came from Kevin's address doesn't mean he was the one typing them.

Just a thought.

LOL I became familiar with that term after reading Parenting with Love & Logic.

It's certainly not impossible. I wonder what JJones' (IMO by far the most likely candidate to change K.Jo's schedule if it wasn't him) schedule was like at school compared with the login/email times?

[lorettalockhorn]

Ever hear the term "helicopter parent"? It's a recently coined term to describe parents who continue to hover over their college age kids..... running interference for them on class schedules, grade disputes, career options, etc. I think you see where I'm going with this.....just because the emails came from Kevin's address doesn't mean he was the one typing them.

Just a thought.

I think JJones described her relationship with Kevin as "fairly close", it never would have occurred to me that would be the way to characterize a relationship with someone whose passwords/log ins you know.

Maybe God told the jury not to question the discrepancy or spend time thinking about it; that it was merely the work of a helicopter parent.

[christina]

It was testified that Nona was extremely security conscious, so these people could not access her apartment unless you are trying to suggest that she handed out copies of her apartment key to everybody that she allowed over.

Kevin had keys to the apartment, which completely renders Nona's security moot. The body was arranged in exactly the way that Kevin attempted to have Whiteside discover, and when that didn't happen, he led everyone directly to what he arranged--a viewing from outside. He still let Whiteside see that one before him.

The security conscience thing didn't pan out in my opinion. The prosecution had one room mate that said Nona locked doors and the room mate got locked out before. But- Nona chose to move out of a very secure house in a secure neighborhood with her mother and stepfather the month after she graduated form high school. Then she moved out from her room mates apartment/house to live alone in a less secure location. The apartment had a sliding door that had to have a stick in it and there was no deadbolt on the front door.
Sara Bailey testified she "had to" call Nona when she got in the driveway before Nona came to the door. When questioned by the defense she admitted she had only been to the apartment a couple of times and that was to pick Nona up to go somewhere and she never actually got out of the car to go into the apartment. A call is understandable when all you are doing is picking someone up.
Then the guy from Springdale said she asked him to call when he got there. That would have been understandable as he arrived around 2am and he testified she was alseep. The neighbor testified she opened the door to him when he came to ask about the cat.

[sololobo]

It was testified that Nona was extremely security conscious, so these people could not access her apartment unless you are trying to suggest that she handed out copies of her apartment key to everybody that she allowed over.

Kevin had keys to the apartment, which completely renders Nona's security moot. The body was arranged in exactly the way that Kevin attempted to have Whiteside discover, and when that didn't happen, he led everyone directly to what he arranged--a viewing from outside. He still let Whiteside see that one before him.

Kevin and Whiteside first attempted to "card" the front door. Only when that was unsuccessful, did they go to the back. That doesn't sound like a pre-planned viewing.

[oxfordwebster]

Kevin and Whiteside first attempted to "card" the front door. Only when that was unsuccessful, did they go to the back. That doesn't sound like a pre-planned viewing.Seems kind of strange to card the door of your ever-exclusive girlfriend at around the time she could have been getting ready to do something with her "little." I fail to see how the carding could not have just been an attempt at being more believable, just like his attempts to make an alibi for the afternoon were.

[Manning]

Seems kind of strange to card the door of your ever-exclusive girlfriend at around the time she could have been getting ready to do something with her "little." I fail to see how the carding could not have just been an attempt at being more believable, just like his attempts to make an alibi for the afternoon were.

IMO it is very strange to be 'carding' a door at Nona's at a time that she is not even suppose to be home. She was suppose to pick her 'Little' up at 5:30 to go to the Chinese resturant.

[LurkerNoMore]

The security conscience thing didn't pan out in my opinion. The prosecution had one room mate that said Nona locked doors and the room mate got locked out before. But- Nona chose to move out of a very secure house in a secure neighborhood with her mother and stepfather the month after she graduated form high school. Then she moved out from her room mates apartment/house to live alone in a less secure location. The apartment had a sliding door that had to have a stick in it and there was no deadbolt on the front door.
Sara Bailey testified she "had to" call Nona when she got in the driveway before Nona came to the door. When questioned by the defense she admitted she had only been to the apartment a couple of times and that was to pick Nona up to go somewhere and she never actually got out of the car to go into the apartment. A call is understandable when all you are doing is picking someone up.
Then the guy from Springdale said she asked him to call when he got there. That would have been understandable as he arrived around 2am and he testified she was alseep. The neighbor testified she opened the door to him when he came to ask about the cat.

This is what I have been trying to point out. Look. Sometimes people open doors when people knock on them, even if they are security-minded. They just do. To think that Nona never opened the door for anyone if she didn't know exactly who it was, ever, is ridiculous. And then there's the likely possibility that she knew who was on the other side of the door, and she let them in.

[christina]

IMO it is very strange to be 'carding' a door at Nona's at a time that she is not even suppose to be home. She was suppose to pick her 'Little' up at 5:30 to go to the Chinese resturant.

She was not answering her phone and her car was still at the apartment.

[christina]

Was told yesterday by a county employee that York's mother called the Pope County Sheriff's Office the day after the murder wanting information about "my son's girlfriend".
I have a call in to confirm that.

[oxfordwebster]

Was told yesterday by a county employee that York's mother called the Pope County Sheriff's Office the day after the murder wanting information about "my son's girlfriend".
I have a call in to confirm that.I hope you plan on naming names so all of your information can be verified. That sounds like you heard a rumor to me. Even "county employees" can spread those.

[lorettalockhorn]

IMO it is very strange to be 'carding' a door at Nona's at a time that she is not even suppose to be home. She was suppose to pick her 'Little' up at 5:30 to go to the Chinese resturant.

Quidnunc that I am, as well as concerned about my loved ones, I would call someone's mother or even law enforcement to do a welfare check before I tried to break into someone's home. I might have wondered if she had had car problems and had borrowed one of the Dipert vehicles to keep her date with her Little. Wait! KJ told LE that Nona had cancelled dinner at the Chinese restaurant. Maybe he just had a gut feeling that something was wrong.

[oxfordwebster]

Wait! KJ told LE that Nona had cancelled dinner at the Chinese restaurant. Maybe he just had a gut feeling that something was wrong.I'd really like to see some of the Kevin defenders claim that the little girl was lying on the stand. Really, they have to think that, since Kevin said that it was canceled. Too bad that little girl didn't know that.

Then again, I guess Kevin canceled the date for her.

[lorettalockhorn]

Was told yesterday by a county employee that York's mother called the Pope County Sheriff's Office the day after the murder wanting information about "my son's girlfriend".
I have a call in to confirm that.

Wow. The defense team should have jumped all over that and called the employee as a witness. (Not sure how they would know that it was Mother York. Caller ID? Voice recognition?)

[oxfordwebster]

Wow. The defense team should have jumped all over that and called the employee as a witness. (Not sure how they would know that it was Mother York. Caller ID? Voice recognition?)Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you see more of this. I think with the hint of a civil suit, people related to Kevin will continue to pump out misinformation to draw attention away from the civil suit and the questionable verdict of the criminal trial.

[lorettalockhorn]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you see more of this. I think with the hint of a civil suit, people related to Kevin will continue to pump out misinformation to draw attention away from the civil suit and the questionable verdict of the criminal trial.


I'm sure that the Dream Team will be all over this and have the employee testify in the civil suit, now that the story is out.

[TJEddie]

I'd really like to see some of the Kevin defenders claim that the little girl was lying on the stand. Really, they have to think that, since Kevin said that it was canceled. Too bad that little girl didn't know that.

Then again, I guess Kevin canceled the date for her.

Has anybody considered the possibility that maybe the date was previously cancelled (like maybe for the night Kevin came home from college) and was then rescheduled without his knowledge?

[oxfordwebster]

Has anybody considered the possibility that maybe the date was previously cancelled (like maybe for the night Kevin came home from college) and was then rescheduled without his knowledge?In light of all of his other inconsistencies, he must not know much.

[lorettalockhorn]

Has anybody considered the possibility that maybe the date was previously cancelled (like maybe for the night Kevin came home from college) and was then rescheduled without his knowledge?

Nope, not really. Or I would have expected the defense to clarify that.

Wait! Not necessary for us to question it since the jury apparently didn't.

[TJEddie]

I hope you plan on naming names so all of your information can be verified. That sounds like you heard a rumor to me. Even "county employees" can spread those.

Just for my own clarification, is christina the only poster who will be held to this high standard, or shall it be applied to all posters who come on here reporting rumors heard about town?

[christina]

Just got it confirmed by a member of law enforcement- York's mother did call the Sheriff's Office the morning after the murder and referred to Nona as her son's girlfriend. He told me that is one of the reason's they came up with jealousy as a motive for Jones. York was being thought of as Nona's boyfriend. The biology lab partner that testified and called York with the news about Nona viewed York that way as well as Nona's neighbor.
BTW, local law enforcement people I have seen or spoken with prior to and since the trial firmly believe Jones committed the murder.

[TJEddie]

As for the suggestion that the defense team should have jumped all over this or that rumor.....they didn't need to. They had enough to get their not guilty verdict.

[oxfordwebster]

Just got it confirmed by a member of law enforcement.Who did you talk to so that I may make my own call? Thanks.

[lorettalockhorn]

Just for my own clarification, is christina the only poster who will be held to this high standard, or shall it be applied to all posters who come on here reporting rumors heard about town?


We've discussed the posting of rumors vs. facts almost ad infinitum. It's just generally accepted almost everywhere that I post that rumors be identified as rumors. Most people like to see a link or quote to back up items posted as fact. I think the reason that Christina's post is being questioned, is because this "county employee" apparently just now came out with this information that could have been so beneficial to the case against York.

I'm curious as to how the employee knew it was York's mother; guess it is possible that LE called her back to verify.

[TJEddie]

Just got it confirmed by a member of law enforcement- York's mother did call the Sheriff's Office the morning after the murder and referred to Nona as her son's girlfriend. He told me that is one of the reason's they came up with jealousy as a motive for Jones. York was being thought of as Nona's boyfriend. The biology lab partner that testified and called York with the news about Nona viewed York that way as well as Nona's neighbor.
BTW, local law enforcement people I have seen or spoken with prior to and since the trial firmly believe Jones committed the murder.

Thank you, christina. I don't understand why they deemed "jealousy" to be applicable to only one boyfriend.

[Manning]

She was not answering her phone and her car was still at the apartment.

When I take final exams or have dinner dates/outings with other people I don't answer my phone either, and most people would know that I was busy and will call them back at my first opportunity - they don't come looking for me. Nona was scheduled for another final at 2:15, and contrary to what has been said about 'finals' - I was never smart enough to take a final in 5 to 15 minutes - mine were at least 1 to 2 hours (back in the old days).

As for the car - Who knows Nona could have decided to ride with another "Big Sister" and their 'Little".

Seems no one knew that the dinner with the "Little" was cancelled, except Kevin

jmo

[TJEddie]

We've discussed the posting of rumors vs. facts almost ad infinitum. It's just generally accepted almost everywhere that I post that rumors be identified as rumors. Most people like to see a link or quote to back up items posted as fact. I think the reason that Christina's post is being questioned, is because this "county employee" apparently just now came out with this information that could have been so beneficial to the case against York.

I'm curious as to how the employee knew it was York's mother; guess it is possible that LE called her back to verify.

Oops. Per christina's latest post, it would appear that LE was aware of "this information that could have been so beneficial to the case against York" all along.

[lorettalockhorn]

Just got it confirmed by a member of law enforcement- York's mother did call the Sheriff's Office the morning after the murder and referred to Nona as her son's girlfriend. He told me that is one of the reason's they came up with jealousy as a motive for Jones. York was being thought of as Nona's boyfriend. The biology lab partner that testified and called York with the news about Nona viewed York that way as well as Nona's neighbor.
BTW, local law enforcement people I have seen or spoken with prior to and since the trial firmly believe Jones committed the murder.

So did LE hold this information back from the attorneys? Who gave you this information? Wonder if The Courier will include it when they publish more about what happened. It would be an understatemnt to say that my curiosity is piqued.

[christina]

Thank you, christina. I don't understand why they deemed "jealousy" to be applicable to only one boyfriend.

Agreed, this is one of the problems I have had. I think the focus on anyone else ended when the palm print came back as Jones. I would LOVE to be able to see the RPD interview of York. It was enlightening to me when I saw the one of Jones shown at the trial.

[oxfordwebster]

I will not give you the name of my source as they asked me not to. It is understandable as law enforcement is being reemed out over their actions in this case.
Feel free to do your own investigation- the Sheriff's office number is 968-2558, the Prosecutor's office is 968-8600 and you might contact the Dipert's as well(don't have their number) I understand they were privy to a great deal of the investigation and might remember that.Okay. I just made my own phone call and the person I talked to said that what you're claiming isn't true at all.

Fun game, isn't it? Posting rumors as facts without backup or evidence?

[lorettalockhorn]

Thank you, christina. I don't understand why they deemed "jealousy" to be applicable to only one boyfriend.

Hey, I hear you. As far as I'm concerned it could have been a girlfriend.

Well, except for KJ's palm print in unclotted blood and his suspect alibi.

[christina]

We've discussed the posting of rumors vs. facts almost ad infinitum. It's just generally accepted almost everywhere that I post that rumors be identified as rumors. Most people like to see a link or quote to back up items posted as fact. I think the reason that Christina's post is being questioned, is because this "county employee" apparently just now came out with this information that could have been so beneficial to the case against York.
I'm curious as to how the employee knew it was York's mother; guess it is possible that LE called her back to verify.

Disagree that this is why I am being questioned so intensely, but.....

Apparantly this was common knowledge as the other's at the table had heard it before. It was the first time I had heard it though.
Beneficial information?- it was to law enforcement as they decided to add it to the jealousy theory against Jones. As we saw from the trial, both sides did not present information that many thought "could have been helpful".

[oxfordwebster]

Apparantly this was common knowledge as the other's at the table had heard it before. It was the first time I had heard it though.Common knowledge, yet the defense didn't use this great curveball when they were working to make York look suspect? They must have been really sure about it, then.

[lorettalockhorn]

Okay. I just made my own phone call and the person I talked to said that what you're claiming isn't true at all.

Fun game, isn't it? Posting rumors as facts without backup or evidence?


For real? How does LE decide when/whom they will release this information to? Wish one of the 82 guests could get in here and maybe explain to us what is going on. (It's been so arid in here lately, wonder why so many peeps showed up today?)

[christina]

Okay. I just made my own phone call and the person I talked to said that what you're claiming isn't true at all.

Fun game, isn't it? Posting rumors as facts without backup or evidence?

Sorry, your sources aren't as knowledgable as mine. And I see you did not name yours either.
I am very comfortable believing that it is true as it was viewed as something that helped the prosecution's case and my law enforcement friend continues to try to get me to see Jones did it.

And, BTW, its not a game to me. As I stated before, as a resident of this community and having a family member attending ATU, I want the truth and this case solved.

[lorettalockhorn]

Disagree that this is why I am being questioned so intensely, but.....

Apparantly this was common knowledge as the other's at the table had heard it before. It was the first time I had heard it though.
Beneficial information?- it was to law enforcement as they decided to add it to the jealousy theory against Jones. As we saw from the trial, both sides did not present information that many thought "could have been helpful".

I am questioning that LE gave you information that they wouldn't give ox, or rather said wasn't a fact. What pragmatist wouldn't question that?

[oxfordwebster]

For real? How does LE decide when/whom they will release this information to? Wish one of the 82 guests could get in here and maybe explain to us what is going on. (It's been so arid in here lately, wonder why so many peeps showed up today?)Well, when you have an anonymous source, anybody can say anything.

Unless Christina gives some sort of real evidence, I'm not going to believe a word about it. This isn't any different than the birdie1 and lewism posts, which I also attacked for posting "facts" with no basis.

That and combined with other behavior, I'm not believing anything without a source.

[oxfordwebster]

Sorry, your sources aren't as knowledgable as mine. And I see you did not name yours either.Maybe my sources are more knowledgeable and don't work on rumors?

By the way, just because a friend is in law enforcement doesn't mean that person gets unfettered access to the information about a case. That's now how things works.

[oxfordwebster]

I also find it funny that Christina posted numbers for the sheriff's office and the prosecuting attorney, but not the Russellville Police Department, who actually did the investigation.

The sheriff's office where, I'd assume, Pope County Sheriff Jay Winters, who hugged Kevin's mom after the trial, would be.

Funny how that works.

[christina]

The sky is blue.

[christina]

I also find it funny that Christina posted numbers for the sheriff's office and the prosecuting attorney, but not the Russellville Police Department, who actually did the investigation.

The sheriff's office where, I'd assume, Pope County Sheriff Jay Winters, who hugged Kevin's mom after the trial, would be.

Funny how that works.

RPD told me they handed everything over to the prosecutor's office and I would have to talk with them. That is why I gave you their number and of course the PCSO because that is where York's mom called.
But here is the RPD-968-3232.

[TJEddie]

From a NW AR news article cited in nobody's "Facts Only" thread:

"After jurors were dismissed for the day, the attorneys took up a motion by Gibbons to limit the defense in suggesting alternative murder suspects unless they have evidence of their guilt.

He told Special Circuit Judge John Patterson the defense has the names of three or four men Dirksmeyer was having problems with at the time of her death and may try to bring them up to cast doubt on Jones’ involvement.

Patterson said he will rule when the evidence comes up during the trial."

I ran across this interesting snippet yesterday. Three or four men Nona was having problems with at the time of her death.....wow. Why was Gibbons so worried about these names coming up? If all had been cleared of suspicion by a proper investigation, Gibbons could have easily rebutted any defense testimony and publicly cleared these men. I have to assume Gibbons didn't have what he needed to do that.

And trying to hold the defense team to only casting suspicion if they had actual evidence of their guilt?? I think Gibbons knew they didn't have such evidence because no other suspects were seriously investigated in this case....even ones Nona was known to be having "problems" with at the time of her death.

[christina]

I am questioning that LE gave you information that they wouldn't give ox, or rather said wasn't a fact. What pragmatist wouldn't question that?

I respect questioning and think it is important to do in order to reach conclusions. Many rumors have flown around this town and this blog. I did not seek this out, I fell into this information by just happening to be present when it was shared. Like I said, other people in the group said they had been told that a long time ago.
I called a friend in law enforcement to get it confirmed and they freely shared it with me to try to convince me Jones did it. We have had ongoing discussions about the case ever since I told them I had changed my mind and now beleived Jones to be innocnet.
One of the problems with this blog format is that we are all anonymous and have to base our belief of another's reputation/truthfullness only on what we read here. We can not look at each other's faces, hear tones in the words. Not everyone expreses themsleves well in words. And my experience is that I have read an attitude into some words only to find out later that my perception was incorrect.

[oxfordwebster]

You can come up with all the suspects you want, and York could even be lying about his relationship with Nona (wait, wasn't that Jeremy Martin?) but does it change Kevin's missing alibi? Does it change Kevin's print in unclotted blood? Does it change his numerous lies to the police? Nope.

If the defense had evidence that other suspects were involved, they'd present it. They didn't. It's a cop-out to blame that on the investigation, because the defense team was able to examine everything the police used in the case against Kevin.

[christina]

From a NW AR news article cited in nobody's "Facts Only" thread:

"After jurors were dismissed for the day, the attorneys took up a motion by Gibbons to limit the defense in suggesting alternative murder suspects unless they have evidence of their guilt.

He told Special Circuit Judge John Patterson the defense has the names of three or four men Dirksmeyer was having problems with at the time of her death and may try to bring them up to cast doubt on Jones’ involvement.

Patterson said he will rule when the evidence comes up during the trial."

I ran across this interesting snippet yesterday. Three or four men Nona was having problems with at the time of her death.....wow. Why was Gibbons so worried about these names coming up? If all had been cleared of suspicion by a proper investigation, Gibbons could have easily rebutted any defense testimony and publicly cleared these men. I have to assume Gibbons didn't have what he needed to do that.

And trying to hold the defense team to only casting suspicion if they had actual evidence of their guilt?? I think Gibbons knew they didn't have such evidence because no other suspects were seriously investigated in this case....even ones Nona was known to be having "problems" with at the time of her death.

Thus the Jarod name coming out of the jury's deliberation. The jury had a copy of Nona's cell records and they showed Jarod(last name was not given) had been texting her often up to the 15th.

[oxfordwebster]

Thus the Jarod name coming out of the jury's deliberation. The jury had a copy of Nona's cell records and they showed Jarod(last name was not given) had been texting her often up to the 15th.Is everybody who communicates with a person who has been murdered a suspect?

[lorettalockhorn]

From a NW AR news article cited in nobody's "Facts Only" thread:

"After jurors were dismissed for the day, the attorneys took up a motion by Gibbons to limit the defense in suggesting alternative murder suspects unless they have evidence of their guilt.

He told Special Circuit Judge John Patterson the defense has the names of three or four men Dirksmeyer was having problems with at the time of her death and may try to bring them up to cast doubt on Jones’ involvement.

Patterson said he will rule when the evidence comes up during the trial."

I ran across this interesting snippet yesterday. Three or four men Nona was having problems with at the time of her death.....wow. b][Why was Gibbons so worried about these names coming up?[/b] If all had been cleared of suspicion by a proper investigation, Gibbons could have easily rebutted any defense testimony and publicly cleared these men. I have to assume Gibbons didn't have what he needed to do that.

And trying to hold the defense team to only casting suspicion if they had actual evidence of their guilt?? I think Gibbons knew they didn't have such evidence because no other suspects were seriously investigated in this case....even ones Nona was known to be having "problems" with at the time of her death.

Maybe he didn't want to confuse an easily befuddled jury? Maybe because he wanted to stay on track, i.e. that KJ was the one on trial?

[oxfordwebster]

Many rumors have flown around this town and this blog. I did not seek this out, I fell into this information by just happening to be present when it was shared. Like I said, other people in the group said they had been told that a long time ago.
I called a friend in law enforcement to get it confirmed and they freely shared it with me to try to convince me Jones did it.Let's get this straight.

The sheriff's office claims that York's mother called to ask about his son's girlfriend instead of the more logical place to call, the RPD. Conveniently, this information works very well with the defense trying to make it suspect and was apparently common knowledge, yet the defense didn't throw it at York when they were trying to make him look suspect. On top of that, this information comes from an office headed by a man with obvious ties to Janice Jones. I wonder what the trickle down is from his beliefs to his subordinates?

On top of that, you have this verified by an unnamed "friend in law enforcement," who, unless actually involved in the investigation, wouldn't have been privy to the specific details about the case.

No wonder I'm so skeptical.

[lorettalockhorn]

I respect questioning and think it is important to do in order to reach conclusions. Many rumors have flown around this town and this blog. I did not seek this out, I fell into this information by just happening to be present when it was shared. Like I said, other people in the group said they had been told that a long time ago.
I called a friend in law enforcement to get it confirmed and they freely shared it with me to try to convince me Jones did it. We have had ongoing discussions about the case ever since I told them I had changed my mind and now beleived Jones to be innocnet.
One of the problems with this blog format is that we are all anonymous and have to base our belief of another's reputation/truthfullness only on what we read here. We can not look at each other's faces, hear tones in the words. Not everyone expreses themsleves well in words. And my experience is that I have read an attitude into some words only to find out later that my perception was incorrect.

Amen on the rumors. One of them being that York had an attorney in tow for his wee hours of the morning interview. I cannot help but wonder why Mrs. York would call the PCSD to ask about her son's girl friend (or was that girl friend?), instead of saving her nickel and simply asking the attorney what was going on. Tell me again how it was verified that it was Mrs. York? For I know, if it happened, it could have been the work of a helicopter mom. There seems to be no shortage of them in this case.

[TJEddie]

You can come up with all the suspects you want, and York could even be lying about his relationship with Nona (wait, wasn't that Jeremy Martin?) but does it change Kevin's missing alibi? Does it change Kevin's print in unclotted blood? Does it change his numerous lies to the police? Nope.

If the defense had evidence that other suspects were involved, they'd present it. They didn't. It's a cop-out to blame that on the investigation, because the defense team was able to examine everything the police used in the case against Kevin.

That's my point, oxford. The defense didn't have actual evidence on other suspects because the investigation stopped short of collecting evidence on anyone other than Kevin. You said it best yourself...."the defense team was able to examine everything the police used in their case against Kevin." All that was available on any other suspects were a bunch of unanswered questions.

As for why the defense didn't make greater use of this....they didn't have to. They got their not guilty verdict without it by casting reasonable doubt on the three things you continue to cling to.....Kevin's "lack of alibi", Kevin's "lies" and Kevin's "unclotted" blood.

[partyharty]

Let's get this straight.

On top of that, this information comes from an office headed by a man with obvious ties to Janice Jones.


What are these obvious ties?

[christina]

Let's get this straight.

The sheriff's office claims that York's mother called to ask about his son's girlfriend instead of the more logical place to call, the RPD. Conveniently, this information works very well with the defense trying to make it suspect and was apparently common knowledge, yet the defense didn't throw it at York when they were trying to make him look suspect. On top of that, this information comes from an office headed by a man with obvious ties to Janice Jones. I wonder what the trickle down is from his beliefs to his subordinates?

On top of that, you have this verified by an unnamed "friend in law enforcement," who, unless actually involved in the investigation, wouldn't have been privy to the specific details about the case.

No wonder I'm so skeptical.

The belief by York's mother and his lab partner that he was Nona's boyfriend could have easily been used by the prosecution to bolster their motive for Jones-jealousy. In closing arguments they bought out that they believed Jones saw/found the condom(a change from their earlier touted theory that Jones planted it), saw the text message at 11:04 from York and flew into a jealous rage. This also could have been used by the prosecution to prove another earlier touted rumor, that Nona was moving on past Jones.

[oxfordwebster]

That's my point, oxford. The defense didn't have actual evidence on other suspects because the investigation stopped short of collecting evidence on anyone other than Kevin. You said it best yourself...."the defense team was able to examine everything the police used in their case against Kevin." All that was available on any other suspects were a bunch of unanswered questions.If they didn't have anything to do with it, the state has no obligation to throw them into the trial. It would be abusive, just as defense attorneys going after innocent people to make their client look better is abusive.

As for why the defense didn't make greater use of this....they didn't have to. They got their not guilty verdict without it by casting reasonable doubt on the three things you continue to cling to.....Kevin's "lack of alibi", Kevin's "lies" and Kevin's "unclotted" blood.Did I miss it where they showed that Kevin had an alibi?

Did I just misinterpret everything he said to the police that night? His exclusive relationship with Nona? The date with her little that was supposedly canceled? His proposal? His precise descriptions of his timeline that were wrong?

Did I miss the defense disputing that the print had no clotted blood? Did I mishear Morrison, the defense expert, testify when he said that yes, fresh blood can mix with clotted blood?

[oxfordwebster]

The belief by York's mother and his lab partner that he was Nona's boyfriend could have easily been used by the prosecution to bolster their motive for Jones-jealousy. In closing arguments they bought out that they believed Jones saw/found the condom(a change from their earlier touted theory that Jones planted it), saw the text message at 11:04 from York and flew into a jealous rage. This also could have been used by the prosecution to prove another earlier touted rumor, that Nona was moving on past Jones.So, both sides decided not to use this information that was common knowledge and beneficial to both parties in presenting their case.

Weird, it's almost as if it's made up information, and that's why they didn't use it.

[oxfordwebster]

What are these obvious ties?I'd say that if the sheriff was in the courtroom during my son's trial and came up to hug me after the verdict, that he probably knows me.

[christina]

If they didn't have anything to do with it, the state has no obligation to throw them into the trial. It would be abusive, just as defense attorneys going after innocent people to make their client look better is abusive.

Did I miss it where they showed that Kevin had an alibi?

Did I just misinterpret everything he said to the police that night? His exclusive relationship with Nona? The date with her little that was supposedly canceled? His proposal? His precise descriptions of his timeline that were wrong?

Did I miss the defense disputing that the print had no clotted blood? Did I mishear Morrison, the defense expert, testify when he said that yes, fresh blood can mix with clotted blood?

Have you been ab le to obtain a copy of the court transcript from the court reporter? I would like to read exactly what was said in the testimonies as the reports from all of us seem to conflict.

[christina]

So, both sides decided not to use this information that was common knowledge and beneficial to both parties in presenting their case.

Weird, it's almost as if it's made up information, and that's why they didn't use it.

I am confident many more things(rumors and facts) will come out as time goes on and the trial gets further behind us. I stand firmly by this "rumor" as truth though.

[christina]

I'd say that if the sheriff was in the courtroom during my son's trial and came up to hug me after the verdict, that he probably knows me.

How did/has the sheriff behaved towards Nona's family through all of this?
Is this an example of defaming someone's reputation on this blog-calling a long term well respected sheriff bias?

[partyharty]

That's my point, oxford. The defense didn't have actual evidence on other suspects because the investigation stopped short of collecting evidence on anyone other than Kevin.

This is one of my problems with the investigation. They didnt go far enough to disqualify others who may have had the motive/oppertunity to do it.


As for why the defense didn't make greater use of this....they didn't have to. They got their not guilty verdict without it by casting reasonable doubt on the three things you continue to cling to.....Kevin's "lack of alibi", Kevin's "lies" and Kevin's "unclotted" blood.[/QUOTE]

Yes but to hear Ox talk about it the jury didnt do their duty to convict KJ. :no:

I think they did what they were supposed to do with the case (AS IT WAS PRESENTED). I would have respected either verdict (guilty/not guilty) simply because the case was that close. Everything came down to a few key pieces of evidence (the alibi/lies/lamp), all of which were refuted by the defense. The defense also brought up some good questions while refuting this evidence.

Kevin may have very well committed this crime. However the prosecution was not able to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt to this jury. As for the jury not doing their job, it was their call to make and they made it.

I do agree with Ox on one thing. There was a lot of smoke and mirrors on the defense. However I do believe that until the gag order was instated the prosecution was doing what they could to use the press in their favor. (for example the FBI expert who was never called but often quoted in the papers).

Just my .02 though. Rip away :seeya:

[oxfordwebster]

Have you been ab le to obtain a copy of the court transcript from the court reporter? I would like to read exactly what was said in the testimonies as the reports from all of us seem to conflict.Not yet, but I've mostly been waiting for the dust to settle to make sure all of the documents are in order. Have you tried?

I think I'm also waiting on the case file to officially close, so that it can all be FOI'd more easily.

I've been mulling over something else--we saw Jeremy Martin maligned anonymously on these boards long ago, there were rumors around town, he's been mentioned in the hearings and at the trial as a witness, and he was called a liar in the newspaper. We never heard from him. I did some digging and found out that you can go to ATU's directory search and pull up an e-mail address for him. Does anyone think it might be beneficial to talk to him?

[oxfordwebster]

I am confident many more things(rumors and facts) will come out as time goes on and the trial gets further behind us. I stand firmly by this "rumor" as truth though.I'm sure. I'm sure we'll hear about slimy things the defense has done, too. They aren't angels.

[oxfordwebster]

How did/has the sheriff behaved towards Nona's family through all of this?
Is this an example of defaming someone's reputation on this blog-calling a long term well respected sheriff bias?The sheriff is a public official and I can have whatever opinion I want of him. Not everybody would agree with your assessment, though I personally don't have issues with him. Nice try, though. :tongue:

I don't know how the sheriff's office has acted, and I'm very curious to know. I'd like to know what, if any role, they would have played in any part of the investigation. I'd also like to know the same thing you're asking.

[partyharty]

I'd say that if the sheriff was in the courtroom during my son's trial and came up to hug me after the verdict, that he probably knows me.

hmmm.

I have met the sheriff as well (and would like to say that I can talk to him if I needed to). I would not say that I have "obvious" ties in any way to him though. As for the hug, he may have known them, are you stating that he received special treatment from the sheriff? (just trying to clarify here).

[oxfordwebster]

I think they did what they were supposed to do with the case (AS IT WAS PRESENTED). I would have respected either verdict (guilty/not guilty) simply because the case was that close. Everything came down to a few key pieces of evidence (the alibi/lies/lamp), all of which were refuted by the defense.They did not refute anything to do with the alibi, lies, or the lamp. I don't know how you could think that. They muddied the waters and made it harder for the jury to know what the truth was, but they didn't refute the fact that he had no alibi, that he made inconsistent statements, or that the print was made in unclotted blood.

The defense also brought up some good questions while refuting this evidence.Can you give me an example? I'm mostly asking because I really want to know of anything I have missed.

I do agree with Ox on one thing. There was a lot of smoke and mirrors on the defense. However I do believe that until the gag order was instated the prosecution was doing what they could to use the press in their favor. (for example the FBI expert who was never called but often quoted in the papers).When was there ever an FBI expert quoted in the paper?

[lorettalockhorn]

Have you been ab le to obtain a copy of the court transcript from the court reporter? I would like to read exactly what was said in the testimonies as the reports from all of us seem to conflict.

Speaking of transcripts, you posted ( I think it was you), that you were going to check into buying one; were you able to verify that JH testified that he an Nona had sex in a music room at Tech? That was an item that other firsthand witnesses in the courtroom didn't hear.

[partyharty]

They aren't angels.

ya know I have never heard of any lawyer being called that (defense or prosecution). So whats your point :hat:

[oxfordwebster]

I have met the sheriff as well (and would like to say that I can talk to him if I needed to). I would not say that I have "obvious" ties in any way to him though. As for the hug, he may have known them, are you stating that he received special treatment from the sheriff? (just trying to clarify here).No, I don't have any evidence of special treatment, especially since I don't know how involved (if at all) the sheriff's office would be in this case/investigation.

I'm mostly pointing out the links between what Christina is stating as fact without any evidence.

[oxfordwebster]

ya know I have never heard of any lawyer being called that (defense or prosecution). So whats your point :hat:You got me on that one! :beer:

[lorettalockhorn]

How did/has the sheriff behaved towards Nona's family through all of this?
Is this an example of defaming someone's reputation on this blog-calling a long term well respected sheriff bias?

Not sure that I understand the gist of your post, but as for as the sheriff being respected; don't know about that so much anymore either. When you add up escapes, prisoner deaths while on work duty, prisoner deaths while in the county lockup, his employees' lack of response to the health of prisoners, his department signing off on the shoddy investigation by RPD in this case, etc. all while he was on watch, people are not so much enamored of him from what I hear.

(How can any of these for instances to be considered defamation when it is a matter of public record?)

[partyharty]

They did not refute anything to do with the alibi, lies, or the lamp. I don't know how you could think that. They muddied the waters and made it harder for the jury to know what the truth was, but they didn't refute the fact that he had no alibi, that he made inconsistent statements, or that the print was made in unclotted blood.

Can you give me an example? I'm mostly asking because I really want to know of anything I have missed.

When was there ever an FBI expert quoted in the paper?

Obviously they did (the verdict that was read was "not guilty").

The only people who know "the truth" is the perp and any others who were there during the commission of the crime. (notice this dosen't include you or I).

I have shown how inconsistant statemtents can be made, timelines screwed up (did you ever write down what you did 2 weeks ago and account for every minute of the day? I tried and was unable to).

As for the print. There are questions that arose about the print. Should the print have clotted blood, should it not. I dunno and experts on both sides of the case didnt shed much light on the subject (both said their respective pieces and the jury had to choose).

Basically in my opinion for this to have been a good case (resulting in a conviction) the prosecution should not have put the entire case on the print. You can say what you want about the alibi, the "lies" and what not but it really came down to one piece of evidence (in my opinion)........The print.....

The defense was able to put enough doubt in peoples minds that it was not as cut and dried as the prosecution would have liked. hence the verdict.

[lorettalockhorn]

hmmm.

I have met the sheriff as well (and would like to say that I can talk to him if I needed to). I would not say that I have "obvious" ties in any way to him though. As for the hug, he may have known them, are you stating that he received special treatment from the sheriff? (just trying to clarify here).

Well, I didn't see The Hug and after reading about PWhiteside's violent outburst in the courtroom and some accounts that the families had to be separated, I thought that maybe he hugged JJones to comfort her over what would have been an unnerving event. Later, we learned here that supposedly Winters is a bud of HJones' from way back when. I'm sure if Winters had a close relationship with either family, that he would recuse himself from actively participating in the investigation.

Than again, who knows?

[hawgustusgloop]

Quidnunc that I am, as well as concerned about my loved ones, I would call someone's mother or even law enforcement to do a welfare check before I tried to break into someone's home. I might have wondered if she had had car problems and had borrowed one of the Dipert vehicles to keep her date with her Little. Wait! KJ told LE that Nona had cancelled dinner at the Chinese restaurant. Maybe he just had a gut feeling that something was wrong.

Was there ever any evidence that K.Jo ever called Nona's mom out of worry for Nona's well-being that day? That does seem like an obvious step before breaking into her apartment, especially since Nona's mom had a key.

[oxfordwebster]

Obviously they did (the verdict that was read was "not guilty").Juries are infallible.

I have shown how inconsistant statemtents can be made, timelines screwed up (did you ever write down what you did 2 weeks ago and account for every minute of the day? I tried and was unable to).I didn't realize that the night of the murder is equivalent to two weeks ago.

As for the print. There are questions that arose about the print. Should the print have clotted blood, should it not. I dunno and experts on both sides of the case didnt shed much light on the subject (both said their respective pieces and the jury had to choose).I've written extensively on this topic using both prosecution and defense expert testimony. I won't rehash it over and over.

Basically in my opinion for this to have been a good case (resulting in a conviction) the prosecution should not have put the entire case on the print. You can say what you want about the alibi, the "lies" and what not but it really came down to one piece of evidence (in my opinion)........The print.....

The defense was able to put enough doubt in peoples minds that it was not as cut and dried as the prosecution would have liked. hence the verdict.Once again, juries are infallible beings of logic and truth that can not be manipulated in any way.

My snark-o-meter just broke.

[oxfordwebster]

Was there ever any evidence that K.Jo ever called Nona's mom out of worry for Nona's well-being that day? That does seem like an obvious step before breaking into her apartment, especially since Nona's mom had a key.No. He also conveniently forgot his own set of keys to the apartment when he went to "check" on her. Kevin's story of worry over Nona has never added up.

[hawgustusgloop]

I will not give you the name of my source as they asked me not to. It is understandable as law enforcement is being reemed out over their actions in this case.
Feel free to do your own investigation- the Sheriff's office number is 968-2558, the Prosecutor's office is 968-8600 and you might contact the Dipert's as well(don't have their number) I understand they were privy to a great deal of the investigation and might remember that.

IMO you should not suggest that people on a public message board contact the victim's family to confirm your rumors.

[christina]

This is one of my problems with the investigation. They didnt go far enough to disqualify others who may have had the motive/oppertunity to do it.


As for why the defense didn't make greater use of this....they didn't have to. They got their not guilty verdict without it by casting reasonable doubt on the three things you continue to cling to.....Kevin's "lack of alibi", Kevin's "lies" and Kevin's "unclotted" blood.

Yes but to hear Ox talk about it the jury didnt do their duty to convict KJ. :no:

I think they did what they were supposed to do with the case (AS IT WAS PRESENTED). I would have respected either verdict (guilty/not guilty) simply because the case was that close. Everything came down to a few key pieces of evidence (the alibi/lies/lamp), all of which were refuted by the defense. The defense also brought up some good questions while refuting this evidence.

Kevin may have very well committed this crime. However the prosecution was not able to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt to this jury. As for the jury not doing their job, it was their call to make and they made it.

I do agree with Ox on one thing. There was a lot of smoke and mirrors on the defense. However I do believe that until the gag order was instated the prosecution was doing what they could to use the press in their favor. (for example the FBI expert who was never called but often quoted in the papers).

Just my .02 though. Rip away :seeya:[/QUOTE]

I agree. The only thing on Jones, in my opinion, is that he had a one hour window without an alibi and therefore had opportunity.

Agreed.

[christina]

IMO you should not suggest that people on a public message board contact the victim's family to confirm your rumors.

Understand, I only suggested it to Oxford at her request, and for a reason she knows.

[lorettalockhorn]

Obviously they did (the verdict that was read was "not guilty").

The only people who know "the truth" is the perp and any others who were there during the commission of the crime. (notice this dosen't include you or I).

I have shown how inconsistant statemtents can be made, timelines screwed up (did you ever write down what you did 2 weeks ago and account for every minute of the day? I tried and was unable to).

As for the print. There are questions that arose about the print. Should the print have clotted blood, should it not. I dunno and experts on both sides of the case didnt shed much light on the subject (both said their respective pieces and the jury had to choose).

Basically in my opinion for this to have been a good case (resulting in a conviction) the prosecution should not have put the entire case on the print. You can say what you want about the alibi, the "lies" and what not but it really came down to one piece of evidence (in my opinion)........The print.....

The defense was able to put enough doubt in peoples minds that it was not as cut and dried as the prosecution would have liked. hence the verdict.

Several have commented about being able to recall what they were doing two weeks ago, that wasn't the case for KJ. His first interview was that night. He had the opportunity on subsequent occasions to make corrections.

The jury foreperson stated that the jury didn't consider opinions, I am assuming at this point that included the opinions of the bloody print experts, since one of the defense experts practically testified for the prosecution.

The entire case didn't rest on the print, but physical evidence would carry more weight than motive or opportunity (in my mind, anyway). This jury simply didn't spend enough time thinking about the case. That the prof from UofA testified that KJ logged onto the UofA system and emailed him while Kevin was supposedly on his way to Rville should have been a real head scratcher, but it wasn't. Instead, the jury went off on an investigatory tangent trying to get information on Jared?.

[christina]

Was there ever any evidence that K.Jo ever called Nona's mom out of worry for Nona's well-being that day? That does seem like an obvious step before breaking into her apartment, especially since Nona's mom had a key.

It was testified to that he called the Dipert's house, spoke with Mr. Dipert and was told Nona's mom was at work.

[oxfordwebster]

I agree. The only thing on Jones, in my opinion, is that he had a one hour window without an alibi and therefore had opportunity.I'm sorry, but did I miss a revelation where the bloody print in unclotted blood was shown to be made by someone else?

[oxfordwebster]

Understand, I only suggested it to Oxford at her request, and for a reason she knows.Excuse me? What reason do I know?

[oxfordwebster]

It was testified to that he called the Dipert's house, spoke with Mr. Dipert and was told Nona's mom was at work.Who testified to this? I want to go read about that.

[christina]

Several have commented about being able to recall what they were doing two weeks ago, that wasn't the case for KJ. His first interview was that night. He had the opportunity on subsequent occasions to make corrections.

The jury forepaerson stated that the jury didn't consider opinions, I am assuming at this point that included the opinions of the bloody print experts, since one of the defense experts practically testified for the prosecution.

The entire case didn't rest on the print, but physical evidence would carry more weight than motive or opportunity (in my mind, anyway). This jury simply didn't spend enough time thinking about the case. That the prof from UofA testified that KJ logged onto the UofA system and emailed him while Kevin was supposedly on his way to Rville should have been a real head scratcher, but it wasn't. Instead, the jury went off on an investigatory tangent trying to get information on Jared?.

This has been touted before and I must have missed it while in court. Was it mentioned in an article?

The prosecution suggested that in their closing arguments.

I do not think it fair for you and others here to demean and defame this jury. If they had come back with the verdict you wanted, guilty, would you be doing this?

[lorettalockhorn]

IMO you should not suggest that people on a public message board contact the victim's family to confirm your rumors.

Can't believe that anyone would suggest such a thing. Hopefully, no one would be so crude as to actually call the victim's family over an unsubstantiated rumor.

[hawgustusgloop]

For real? How does LE decide when/whom they will release this information to? Wish one of the 82 guests could get in here and maybe explain to us what is going on. (It's been so arid in here lately, wonder why so many peeps showed up today?)

I'm with you on this! I logged in for a minute earlier this morning, and there were 4 people on here. I don't know if the number of people viewing even broke 20 yesterday. Why are so many here right now?

[christina]

Who testified to this? I want to go read about that.

Jones in the taped interview, It was not objected to by the prosecution and since they had Jones cell records I suspect it was true.

[christina]

Can't believe that anyone would suggest such a thing. Hopefully, no one would be so crude as to actually call the victim's family over an unsubstantiated rumor.

I stand spanked on this one. It was a poor attempt at being cheeky with Oxford.
Please accept my apologies.

[christina]

I'm with you on this! I logged in for a minute earlier this morning, and there were 4 people on here. I don't know if the number of people viewing even broke 20 yesterday. Why are so many here right now?

Where are you getting this information? How can we see who and how many are viewing this blog?

[oxfordwebster]

I do not think it fair for you and others here to demean and defame this jury. If they had come back with the verdict you wanted, guilty, would you be doing this?I'd stop if they explained how they came up with the verdict instead of hand-waving it away and evoking God disrespectfully.

[oxfordwebster]

I stand spanked on this one. It was a poor attempt at being cheeky with Oxford.
Please accept my apologies.I don't think you were trying to be malicious, IMO.

Could you explain what you meant by this, then? "Understand, I only suggested it to Oxford at her request, and for a reason she knows."

[partyharty]

No. He also conveniently forgot his own set of keys to the apartment when he went to "check" on her. Kevin's story of worry over Nona has never added up.

I have always wondered what the relivence of this was. It took a few more minutes (if that) to get into the apartment but the end result was the same.

It would seem that if he had the keys on him, they would still find the body (same as before) and nothing would have changed.

Does anyone know why this was such a big deal (and reported on so much)?

[lorettalockhorn]

This has been touted before and I must have missed it while in court. Was it mentioned in an article?

The prosecution suggested that in their closing arguments.

I do not think it fair for you and others here to demean and defame this jury. If they had come back with the verdict you wanted, guilty, would you be doing this?


FOR ME, the entire case did not rest on the print. It was more about KJ's lies, bizarre behavior, and the very fact that he found Nona's body to begin with. Add that to the contrivances about his very, very exclusive relationship, not bringing the key with him, sending RW to check on Nona, his drug and alcohol use and any number of other things such as grandmother's last minute alibi, I think he was guilty. I thought so at the beginning; wanted to see the alibi; was also interested in the print evidence which proved to me that KJ touched the bulb when Nona was murdered.

I'm not defaming the jury, I'm questioning their logic and the ability to consider quite a bit of testimony and evidence in such a short time. I don't think it's fair for you post rumors as truth without naming your sources, either. But you continue to do so.

If the jury had given credit to God for a guilty conviction instead of citing the evidence, you had better believe I'd be carping (and so would others, including pro-defense types. I'd bet on it.).

[lorettalockhorn]

I have always wondered what the relivence of this was. It took a few more minutes (if that) to get into the apartment but the end result was the same.

It would seem that if he had the keys on him, they would still find the body (same as before) and nothing would have changed.

Does anyone know why this was such a big deal (and reported on so much)?


I cannot answer for anyone else, but for me, it was contrived that KJ was driving his father's truck that night, so he didn't have his own set of keys (assuming that he used his father's keyring, for instance). Also supposedly, JJones had spoken to someone the day before about KJ being her date, but it wasn't approved until sometime around 4pm that afternoon, despite the fact that she testified that she laid his clothes out that morning and there was mention of a necessary head count to notify the event planner at the restaurant.

[hawgustusgloop]

Where are you getting this information? How can we see who and how many are viewing this blog?

Go to the main CL message boards page. Then scroll down to Nona's forum....it will say "80 viewing" (or however many) next to the title. If you click on the link to the main Nona forum (not just this thread), and scroll down to the bottom of it, it will break it down into members and guests.

[christina]

I'd stop if they explained how they came up with the verdict instead of hand-waving it away and evoking God disrespectfully.

Wasn't the jury foreman quoted as saying they did not think the evidence pointed to Jones?

[lorettalockhorn]

Wasn't the jury foreman quoted as saying they did not think the evidence pointed to Jones?


I know that you've said before that you quit reading because of bias, but for what it's worth:

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=49361

Besides the self-agrandizing statement about God, she said that everything that the prosecution presented, there was reasonable doubt. Puhleez Everything? I don't see how they had time to look at everything, let alond decide that everything led to reasonable doubt.

[hawgustusgloop]

Quotes from the forewoman, from the article linked above:

“And I believe that God had put me there for a reason.”


“You can't imagine the amount of evidence we had to go through.”


"Everything the prosecution introduced, there was reasonable doubt,” she said. “And you knew there were things that weren't there; there were so many holes.”

[christina]

Go to the main CL message boards page. Then scroll down to Nona's forum....it will say "80 viewing" (or however many) next to the title. If you click on the link to the main Nona forum (not just this thread), and scroll down to the bottom of it, it will break it down into members and guests.

Thanks, I didn't even know all this info existed.

[hawgustusgloop]

Not sure that I understand the gist of your post, but as for as the sheriff being respected; don't know about that so much anymore either. When you add up escapes, prisoner deaths while on work duty, prisoner deaths while in the county lockup, his employees' lack of response to the health of prisoners, his department signing off on the shoddy investigation by RPD in this case, etc. all while he was on watch, people are not so much enamored of him from what I hear.

(How can any of these for instances to be considered defamation when it is a matter of public record?)

Weren't these incidents all attributed ad nauseum to RPD by some posters to show how awful RPD was, when in reality they should have been attributed to the Pope County Sheriff's office instead? Now that we are actually talking about the sheriff, that stuff doesn't seem so important, and he is instead referred to as a long-term, respected public servant. Hmmmm........

[hawgustusgloop]

It was testified to that he called the Dipert's house, spoke with Mr. Dipert and was told Nona's mom was at work.

So, what did he claim to have said? Did he tell Mr. Dipert he was super worried about Nona and wondered if he had seen or talked to her? What time did K.Jo claim to have made the call? Did he notify Mr. Dipert that if he didn't hear from Nona that he intended to break into her apartment?

I would love to know more about this, especially whether or not the call was actually made, and if so, what was said.

[lorettalockhorn]

Weren't these incidents all attributed ad nauseum to RPD by some posters to show how awful RPD was, when in reality they should have been attributed to the Pope County Sheriff's office instead? Now that we are actually talking about the sheriff, that stuff doesn't seem so important, and he is instead referred to as a long-term, respected public servant. Hmmmm........

Well, Hawg. I've tried to remind people that the sheriff runs the PCDC, but people just believe what they want to believe.

Winters has been in office for many years; the murderer who escaped the detention center was a young boy who killed an older man who had, if memory serves, sexually abused him. Don't remember the name. A prisoner named Enos fell through the roof/rafters of a delapidated building while on work detail a few years ago. Then, there were the more recent problems that have been reported by the media. Yes, Rylee was injured during a fracas with RPD, but it is my understanding that he was in the sheriff's custody when medical attention was warranted.

Shameful (downright un-American) in my opinion that sick call isn't taken more seriously by jail adminitrators. *climbs off soapbox*

[lorettalockhorn]

So, what did he claim to have said? Did he tell Mr. Dipert he was super worried about Nona and wondered if he had seen or talked to her? What time did K.Jo claim to have made the call? Did he notify Mr. Dipert that if he didn't hear from Nona that he intended to break into her apartment?

I would love to know more about this, especially whether or not the call was actually made, and if so, what was said.


Oh, I had read that he called the Dipert home, but didn't realize/remember that he had actually spoken to DD or anyone. I want to know more too.

[hawgustusgloop]

I know that you've said before that you quit reading because of bias, but for what it's worth:

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=49361

Besides the self-agrandizing statement about God, she said that everything that the prosecution presented, there was reasonable doubt. Puhleez Everything? I don't see how they had time to look at everything, let alond decide that everything led to reasonable doubt.

That quote about there being reasonable doubt with everything the prosecution presented really stuck out to me, too. It's almost like they equated the defense arguing against a piece of prosecution evidence as "reasonable doubt," without considering the notion of whether or not the witnesses were being truthful or passing the common sense test. It's like, if the defense had ANY explanation, refutation, or excuse, BAM, there's your reasonable doubt. How else could you explain the fact that the jury found reasonable doubt in "everything" the prosecution presented?

All my opinion only.

[lorettalockhorn]

That quote about there being reasonable doubt with everything the prosecution presented really stuck out to me, too. It's almost like they equated the defense arguing against a piece of prosecution evidence as "reasonable doubt," without considering the notion of whether or not the witnesses were being truthful or passing the common sense test. It's like, if the defense had ANY explanation, refutation, or excuse, BAM, there's your reasonable doubt. How else could you explain the fact that the jury found reasonable doubt in "everything" the prosecution presented?

All my opinion only.

Yes, I have a problem with everything as to the one or [I]few[/I thing(s) that made it clear. Could it be that RPD was on trial rather than KJo?

[christina]

So, what did he claim to have said? Did he tell Mr. Dipert he was super worried about Nona and wondered if he had seen or talked to her? What time did K.Jo claim to have made the call? Did he notify Mr. Dipert that if he didn't hear from Nona that he intended to break into her apartment?

I would love to know more about this, especially whether or not the call was actually made, and if so, what was said.

I am sorry I can not remember the answers to all you are asking. What I do remember- it was prior to them going to the apartment, he did speak to Mr. Dipert who said he had not seen Nona and Jones was told Nona's mom was at work.

[christina]

Speaking of transcripts, you posted ( I think it was you), that you were going to check into buying one; were you able to verify that JH testified that he an Nona had sex in a music room at Tech? That was an item that other firsthand witnesses in the courtroom didn't hear.

I have finally gotten the name of the court reporter- Tanya Ray, but as yet have not been able to get contact information as Patterson is a retired judge and no longer has an office.
I have asked others and been told the transcript will be about $4/per page or about $200/hour to prepare. Once its prepared for someone, the next person only has to buy copies at about $1-2/page. I was also told it is possible to order just parts/certain testimony, good thing because the whole trial will probably cost about $4,000!!

[oxfordwebster]

I have finally gotten the name of the court reporter- Tanya Ray, but as yet have not been able to get contact information as Patterson is a retired judge and no longer has an office.
I have asked others and been told the transcript will be about $4/per page or about $200/hour to prepare. Once its prepared for someone, the next person only has to buy copies at about $1-2/page. I was also told it is possible to order just parts/certain testimony, good thing because the whole trial will probably cost about $4,000!!A dollar or two per page? I'm not calling you a liar, but I'm finding that hard to believe. Those are public documents, and one to two dollars a page isn't reasonable whatsoever.

I don't think (or know if) trial documents fall under FOI, but FOI doesn't allow that kind of thing or it'd defeat the purpose.

[lorettalockhorn]

A dollar or two per page? I'm not calling you a liar, but I'm finding that hard to believe. Those are public documents, and one to two dollars a page isn't reasonable whatsoever.

I don't think trial documents fall under FOI, but FOI doesn't allow that kind of thing or it'd defeat the purpose.

About a hundred years ago, I had to research getting a transcript of a divorce hearing for a client; the cost was $2500. We later found out that the "other" attorney had deposed a witness and were able to get the information that was needed that way. When you think about it, $4000 is relatively cheap.

[oxfordwebster]

About a hundred years ago, I had to research getting a transcript of a divorce hearing for a client; the cost was $2500. We later found out that the "other" attorney had deposed a witness and were able to get the information that was needed that way. When you think about it, $4000 is relatively cheap.Do you think there might be a difference between a divorce hearing and a public murder trial? I have no idea, but I'm really curious now. I was looking forward to getting these transcripts.

[christina]

Do you think there might be a difference between a divorce hearing and a public murder trial? I have no idea, but I'm really curious now. I was looking forward to getting these transcripts.

You and me both. I called an angel (read lawyer) friend from church. He said that is common as a court reporter is a professional and can charge for their services. They officially "own" the court record and evidence put into the record! So I called the newspaper, as for FOI, someone can charge you for the document you request, the FOI just guarantees you have the right to obtain it.

[oxfordwebster]

You and me both. I called an angel (read lawyer) friend from church. He said that is common as a court reporter is a professional and can charge for their services. They officially "own" the court record and evidence put into the record! So I called the newspaper, as for FOI, someone can charge you for the document you request, the FOI just guarantees you have the right to obtain it.Yeah, but with an FOI they can only charge you reasonable rates for making the copies, because if not then there wouldn't be a point in having FOI. $1-2 isn't reasonable.

This transcript thing is ludicrous. I don't see how public records should be able to be owned by anybody but, you know, tax payers. :flamemad:

[lorettalockhorn]

Do you think there might be a difference between a divorce hearing and a public murder trial? I have no idea, but I'm really curious now. I was looking forward to getting these transcripts.

Can't imagine why the per page cost would be different, except for the difference in the cost of wages compared then and now. Maybe when Christina contacts the court reporter, she can ask. The only difference that I can see is in the length of the actual document(s); a divorce hearing takes very little time; there would have been some research time involved in my particular example; the case was some years in the past when the question arose. This murder trial obviously lasted longer, involved several hearings, and the witness lists and exhibits were extensive.

Divorce hearings are public information too. So the rule applies here too. It's just a matter of who cares enough to want to actually pay for the transcript.

[sololobo]

OT: but I wonder how Huggins got to work that day. He stated that after the errands that KJ dropped him off at his apartment. Is the Bayou within walking distance? (The witness list shows JH's address as 286 Wall Street.)

Huggins lived behind the Bayou. Kevin went to Huggins apartment before Huggins got off work. Perhaps he used Huggins PC.

http://www.atkinschronicle.com/anews4extra2.htm

[lorettalockhorn]

Huggins lived behind the Bayou. Kevin went to Huggins apartment before Huggins got off work. Perhaps he used Huggins PC.

http://www.atkinschronicle.com/anews4extra2.htm

Thanks so much! I looked up the Wall Street address on google maps and it showed it pretty far south of town off of Round Rock Road. Obviously, I know very little about Dover streets. Wonder where KJ emailed the professor from at 1:35?

[LurkerNoMore]

Court reporters are going to charge their per-page fee regardless of what type of hearing it is.

It is highly, highly unlikely that either the State or Defense will request a transcript after a not-guilty verdict. Generally, the only reason to do so would be if an appeal was planned, and there's no reason for the defendant to appeal a not-guilty verdict.

It would take an interested third party (or parties) with deep pockets to ever have this transcript see the light of day.

On the other hand, a pending civil suit might merit either the victim's family or the defendant requesting the transcript to use in that case.

[lorettalockhorn]

Court reporters are going to charge their per-page fee regardless of what type of hearing it is.

It is highly, highly unlikely that either the State or Defense will request a transcript after a not-guilty verdict. Generally, the only reason to do so would be if an appeal was planned, and there's no reason for the defendant to appeal a not-guilty verdict.

It would take an interested third party (or parties) with deep pockets to ever have this transcript see the light of day.

On the other hand, a pending civil suit might merit either the victim's family or the defendant requesting the transcript to use in that case.

Correct, a transcript is not automatically generated. If there is a civil lawsuit, I wouldn't be surprised if two copies were immediately be requested.

[whiterivergal]

Do you think there will be a civil suit filed? I hope so. I do not think justice has been served.

[partyharty]

A dollar or two per page? I'm not calling you a liar, but I'm finding that hard to believe. Those are public documents, and one to two dollars a page isn't reasonable whatsoever.

I don't think (or know if) trial documents fall under FOI, but FOI doesn't allow that kind of thing or it'd defeat the purpose.

Hard to believe but probably true.

A while back I worked for the juvenile court system (in another county) and official transcripts could be expensive (according to some of the people I worked with, I never purchased a transcript myself).

I believe its like the other poster above said. The court reporters simply report what happens and you have to contract with them to get a copy. Depending on the reporter it may cost quite a bit to get a record. (I think this is crazy also, it should be available for anyone........so much for a transparent court process).

As for FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request. You can (and in most cases) will be charged a "reasonable" fee for the copying and preparing of documents. The fee can cover “a fee reasonably related to the actual cost of duplication,” but cannot charge for the time spent by employees searching for the records unless another statute specifically allows the charge. Nor should an agency be able to charge for the time spent determining whether all or only parts of a record are closed under the act" (source foiarkansas.com)

FOIA request can be made of a court provided that there is no existing court order witholding the information. (source www.ag.arkansas.gov/pdfs/foia-ocr.pdf+arkansas%2Bfoia%2Bcharge&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a)

[oxfordwebster]

Do you think there will be a civil suit filed? I hope so. I do not think justice has been served.Nona's mother said as much.

[nobody]

The room was dark, but they could barely see Nona. When they came inside, Kevin went straight to Nona. Within that minute, the doorbell rang and Whiteside went to the door - to find Mrs. Jones. Within that moment, Kevin got up and flipped the light switch - leaving a blood smear. When the lamp did not come on - he tried to tighten the bulb. This would explain why Whiteside or Mrs. Jones would not have seen him touch the lamp.

I can't explain the blood on the candle holder - but I picture one of those thick base marble ones. Maybe the lamp was not the murder weapon - they have always said "alleged".

I can't explain why Jones would not testify to that, if it were the case - but it is my theory. Comments?

[oxfordwebster]

I can't explain why Jones would not testify to that, if it were the case - but it is my theory. Comments?Because the medic on scene is the one who turned on the light.

[nobody]

Because the medic on scene is the one who turned on the light.

Did the medic testify to that - I find it hard to believe none of the three attempted to get the lights on - especially since Mrs. Jones was pacing the hallway waiting on someone to arrive.

[oxfordwebster]

Did the medic testify to that - I find it hard to believe none of the three attempted to get the lights on - especially since Mrs. Jones was pacing the hallway waiting on someone to arrive.Yes, that was the testimony. There must have been another light already on, because Janice Jones was able to read from mail, so I imagine that there was possibly a light on in the kitchen.

[hawgustusgloop]

The room was dark, but they could barely see Nona. When they came inside, Kevin went straight to Nona. Within that minute, the doorbell rang and Whiteside went to the door - to find Mrs. Jones. Within that moment, Kevin got up and flipped the light switch - leaving a blood smear. When the lamp did not come on - he tried to tighten the bulb. This would explain why Whiteside or Mrs. Jones would not have seen him touch the lamp.

I can't explain the blood on the candle holder - but I picture one of those thick base marble ones. Maybe the lamp was not the murder weapon - they have always said "alleged".

I can't explain why Jones would not testify to that, if it were the case - but it is my theory. Comments?

Wasn't the lamp on the floor and separated into pieces? It seems like that lamp had way worse problems than a loose bulb. Wouldn't his bloody fingerprints be all over the lamp then, too, when he tried to turn it on or pick it up?

[lorettalockhorn]

Did the medic testify to that - I find it hard to believe none of the three attempted to get the lights on - especially since Mrs. Jones was pacing the hallway waiting on someone to arrive.

It is ludicrous that none of the three turned on a light and I cannot imagine what KJ was reaching for during his "resuscitation attempt". I believe the theory that the lamp base was the weapon that dealt the final blow may be one of few things that wasn't a bone of contention by the various experts.

[nobody]

They say she was hit in the face with a fist or palm? What if she was on the ground with her face down, during most of the attack. Such as - the attacker was holding her down with her arms pinned behind her - purhaps torturing her with the knife - while saying his frustrations. With her face down, he then hits the back of her head - purhaps with a nearby candleholder - knocking her unconscience. He realizes the candleholder and knife are not doing enough damage. Then the attacker gets up, unplugs the lamp, takes the shade off, unscrews the bulb and hits her a couple more times with the base - with the impact bruising her face also.

I guess almost anything is possible.