Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[oxfordwebster]

(not to mention being slandered in the paper)Kevin has not been slandered in any paper. If you think he has, please document it, because he'd need all the help he can get if he decided to pursue it.

What a joke.

[christina]

Again I say, Give me a break!! First of all, Kevin has been out of sight for the past year and a half. Also, a tough year would be finding you girlfriend dead, being accused of her murder, and then having an entire county(not to mention being slandered in the paper) against you for the most part while being part of your family losing its business and possibly everything else. I just prey that the Jones family is not torn apart by this. I know they are strong I just hope they will be able to prevail. I think people on this board should stop assuming you know what these people are going through.

This is a good thought. Few of us know what either family has truly gone through.
As for slander, are you meaning simply being put out there as the murderer and then found not guilty?

[christina]

Re: the comment in Pat Lynch's blog yesterday about the possiblity of Patterson's error in not allowing the jury to consider lesser charges:

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:abgLX4hjt6IJ:courts.state.ar.us/opinions/old/CR94-717A.html+arkansas+supreme+court+herbert+jones+les ser+charges+plegge&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

I couldn't search the Arkansas Supreme Court's website due to construction or something, but found this cached article. Basically, the court found that Judge Plegge had erred when he didn't instruct a jury (in a first degree murder case) that they could consider second degree murder or manslaughter as an alternative to the 1st degree charge. Despite the fact that the judge erred, of course, the defendant could not be retried.

The reason that I even bring it up is because I wonder if there had been other options open to the jury if they would have felt more comfortable with a guilty verdict.

I asked that question to a lawyer yesterday and (if I understoond correctly)was told it was up to the prosecutor not the judge.

[Brown hound]

[QUOTE=FKfanMoe;8916680]Your account is from this month and you have only two posts. Considering the many pages of this topic, I highly doubt you read it all from the beginning. It took me a few days to do that myself, and I am using a frigging dialup connection. dagnabit!

As far as this being a "kevin bashing" web site, look again. This is a COURT TV message board, not a web site dedicated to bashing Jones. This is about the MURDER of Nona, which you haven't mentioned. If Jones is innocent, I want to see proof. The fact is Jones DID lie to the police about certain details. There are too many things about this case to convince me Jones had at least something to hide about this.

It is not the burden of the accused to "prove" innocence. It is the burden of the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I would like to think that the founders of our country, when setting up the judicial system and establishing rules of conduct knew that trials have to be based on evidence that is irrefutable, and not emotional. Here is where the trial went wrong. There is no irrefutable evidence that KJ perpetrated this crime.

As for the number of posts, and age of account, I too have been following this site for about a year as a GUEST. Yet my account is newly created and this is my first post. I wanted to wait until the 12 jurors who heard all evidence had rendered their verdict before I threw my two cents in. This site has been both informative, and at times entertaining. Some of you would make great fictional writers.

The real travesty here is that we may never know who murdered Nona. Poor investigation has rendered any evidence that was at the scene contaminated or inadmissable. Real justice would have been in convicting the perpetrator of the crime based on evidence that was so compelling that NO ONE could have doubted the verdict.

Prayers to the Dirksmeyer family for their next journey. Prayers to the Jones family for theirs.

[optimumprimal78]

Again I say, Give me a break!! First of all, Kevin has been out of sight for the past year and a half. Also, a tough year would be finding you girlfriend dead, being accused of her murder, and then having an entire county(not to mention being slandered in the paper) against you for the most part while being part of your family losing its business and possibly everything else. I just prey that the Jones family is not torn apart by this. I know they are strong I just hope they will be able to prevail. I think people on this board should stop assuming you know what these people are going through.

So going to parties and drinking with friends is being out of site? You can't be slandered if you are mentioned in papers (like the Dover Paper refused to say anything about it). I don't know what either family has gone through and I hope I never do but at the same time you can't deny that being out for a full year and a half is just a bit ridiculous especially in a small town.

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks just wondering.

According to this, the statute of limitations in AR is three years; I'll look some more when I come back:


http://law.freeadvice.com/resources/personal_injury_statute_of_limitations.htm

Surely we can find this in code law for AR, rather than an attorney resource website!

[lorettalockhorn]

I asked that question to a lawyer yesterday and (if I understoond correctly)was told it was up to the prosecutor not the judge.


You might want to read the article.

[oxfordwebster]

Maybe someone else can confirm this, but I'm pretty sure Kevin would have to testify in a civil case. OJ had to, right?

[hudnala]

Wondering if anyone else thought it strange that the Sheriff of Pope County, Jay Winters, got up and hugged KJ's mother?
Thoughts?
Kind of makes you wonder why he never spent a day in jail.
I am sure if I was awaiting capital murder trial I would have been in jail.....

[hawgustusgloop]

I think the time for a civil suit has run out. I think it is counted from the time of the death, not the verdict.

According to Lorettalockhorn's link and my rudimentary Google search, the Diperts have until December 15, 2008 to file suit.

[hawgustusgloop]

Wondering if anyone else thought it strange that the Sheriff of Pope County, Jay Winters, got up and hugged KJ's mother?
Thoughts?
Kind of makes you wonder why he never spent a day in jail.
I am sure if I was awaiting capital murder trial I would have been in jail.....

I was not aware that happened. If this is true, I do think it is strange indeed.

[christina]

Wondering if anyone else thought it strange that the Sheriff of Pope County, Jay Winters, got up and hugged KJ's mother?
Thoughts?
Kind of makes you wonder why he never spent a day in jail.
I am sure if I was awaiting capital murder trial I would have been in jail.....

I missed that- do you have a link/source?

[hudnala]

I was not aware that happened. If this is true, I do think it is strange indeed.

I was watching channel 4 KARK, I dont know if they have a video link or not. It was shown last night at 6 and 11, and this morning from 5 - 8, everytime they reported the verdict. They say they were the only news camera allowed in?

[christina]

Internet links are tough to use for this as they may not be the most current law. The last session was this year so it owul dhave the most current ammendments. I found this case below in a search stating 1 year. I will look further.

http://courts.state.ar.us/unpublished/2007a/20070221/ca06-329.pdf

[studdy05]

Maybe someone else can confirm this, but I'm pretty sure Kevin would have to testify in a civil case. OJ had to, right?

He no longer has a 5th to protect him in a civil case and he could be deposed at length.

And while it is true he can never be subject to double jeapordy for her killing, if it could be proved he tampered with or adulterated a crime scene or otherwise obstructed justice then a plethora of charges could be brought. Nothing equivalent to a life sentence in Arkansas, though.

You have to start over from square one and see if anything new evolves.

Use science. There is no such thing as a perfect crime.

[nobody]

Wondering if anyone else thought it strange that the Sheriff of Pope County, Jay Winters, got up and hugged KJ's mother?
Thoughts?
Kind of makes you wonder why he never spent a day in jail.
I am sure if I was awaiting capital murder trial I would have been in jail.....

I might can lead you in the right direction on this speculation...KJ's mother was a teacher for Dover Schools and I believe (don't start new rumours on this) that Sheriff Winters' spouse was also a teacher there. (Small Community) Sheriff Winters has an excellent professional reputation - so I would not cloud theories with possible ideals of corruption. I would only see it as mutual respect.

[hudnala]

I missed that- do you have a link/source?

There is a video on their website, you catch a breif glimpse of him walking (wear a bluish/gray shirt and khaki pants) towards KJ mother, then the reporter starts talking to the camera.
I looked for the link from this mornings new cast but I can find it, it shows the full fledge hug on it. I only know what he looks like because he goes to a church I used to go to....

[hawgustusgloop]

Internet links are tough to use for this as they may not be the most current law. The last session was this year so it owul dhave the most current ammendments. I found this case below in a search stating 1 year. I will look further.

http://courts.state.ar.us/unpublished/2007a/20070221/ca06-329.pdf

I only skimmed this, but it appears this man was trying to sue over an assault and battery incident, which apparently carries a statute of limitations of one year. He was claiming that he could file under the statute of limitations for damage to personal property, which appears in the opinion to be 3 years. He appears to have failed and the suit dismissed because he could not show that any of his personal property had been damaged.

I couldn't find a reference to a wrongful death claim in that link, but I didn't read the whole thing.

[nobody]

With the Thread going well over the five-thousand posts mark, it makes it hard to find reference to past events. It would be nice if we could break down each discussion by person, event, piece of evidence. For instance, maybe having one separate Thread that talks about the alleged murder weapon - and nothing else. Another would only talk about the entrances into Nona's apartment. Another would only talk about text messages. I know it is very late in the game - but we should atleast reconsider everything by breaking it down. Good idea, or no?

[nobody]

Was Whiteside (Ryan) ever a suspect? If so, what was his alibi? I can't seem to find reference. Was he the person that Kevin asked to stop and check on Nona - but said something to the affect of nobody answered?

Please prove this notion wrong.

He was there watching Kevin at the crime scene - but not on the phone - what was he doing? Could some of those DNA or fingerprints been his? He was also at the latter rape allegation party - in the report as one of the suspects. I did not state a motive - just small details that seem to be muted. I could see the defense not wanting to suggest Whiteside - on behalf of relationship to Jones.

[Hey Paula]

Jones can not be criminally tried again for Nona's death.

You're right, but through the grace of God, if KJ killed Nona, as I believe he did, the DA/Pros/LE, if they are confident he is the perp and are outraged by the verdict, might uncover other crimes they can charge him with.

In the case of Brenda Schaeffer, Mel Ignatow, despite the compelling evidence against him, was acquitted. MI took the stand in his own defense. Years later, after Ignatow had moved out of his residence, a carpet installer discovered photos of Brenda as she was being murdered with MI's body in the pics. The Pros charged him with perjury and he was sent to prison.

If KJ killed Nona, he has anger problems, which will probably surface again.

IMO

[lorettalockhorn]

I only skimmed this, but it appears this man was trying to sue over an assault and battery incident, which apparently carries a statute of limitations of one year. He was claiming that he could file under the statute of limitations for damage to personal property, which appears in the opinion to be 3 years. He appears to have failed and the suit dismissed because he could not show that any of his personal property had been damaged.

I couldn't find a reference to a wrongful death claim in that link, but I didn't read the whole thing.

Found this:

http://www.the-injury-lawyer-directory.com/statutes_arkansas.html

Also, this exception may apply:

In Arkansas, when the injured party is under 21 that party ordinarily has 3 years after his or her 21st birthday to file his or her claim. This applies in all cases except for wrongful death claims.

[lorettalockhorn]

I was watching channel 4 KARK, I dont know if they have a video link or not. It was shown last night at 6 and 11, and this morning from 5 - 8, everytime they reported the verdict. They say they were the only news camera allowed in?

Found this; click on watch to see the video. I believe that I waw the back of Winters' head, but didn't see him hug anyone:

http://arkansasmatters.com/content/fulltext/?cid=57832

[Hoodwinked]

It's fairly obvious that the police didn't do and excellent job of collecting evidence in this case and that the jury could find "reasonable doubt".

It's also fairly obvious that Jones made some wise decisions in this whole ordeal in waiting so long to "find" Nona and to contaminate himself upon re-entry into the house. He also made a wise decision in spending a lot of money to hire a very good defense team.

I have no doubt that he did it, but the case was tough. No forced entry, no sexual assault, the level of violence, the opportuniy was there, a bloody palm print on the light bulb? I truly believe he is guilty. A stranger doesn't stab someone 17 times, strangle and bludgeon without either burglarizing or sexually assaulting the victim. This was a very personal crime. I also find it odd that this particular day he was so concerned that he took his mom and friend with him because of that concern.

His story just doesn't ring true, but that's not enough to convict.

[oxfordwebster]

Found this:

http://www.the-injury-lawyer-directory.com/statutes_arkansas.html

Also, this exception may apply:

In Arkansas, when the injured party is under 21 that party ordinarily has 3 years after his or her 21st birthday to file his or her claim. This applies in all cases except for wrongful death claims.This (http://law.freeadvice.com/resources/personal_injury_statute_of_limitations.htm) lists Arkansas having a 3-year limit for wrongful death.

[JR2007]

Christina
Thanks a lot for helping to keep us informed with the trial, as best you could. You did a pretty good job of trying to be fair and unbiased. At time it showed through a little, better then I would have done, all in all great job.:)
Thanks, again

[hawgustusgloop]

It's fairly obvious that the police didn't do and excellent job of collecting evidence in this case and that the jury could find "reasonable doubt".

It's also fairly obvious that Jones made some wise decisions in this whole ordeal in waiting so long to "find" Nona and to contaminate himself upon re-entry into the house. He also made a wise decision in spending a lot of money to hire a very good defense team.

I have no doubt that he did it, but the case was tough. No forced entry, no sexual assault, the level of violence, the opportuniy was there, a bloody palm print on the light bulb? I truly believe he is guilty. A stranger doesn't stab someone 17 times, strangle and bludgeon without either burglarizing or sexually assaulting the victim. This was a very personal crime. I also find it odd that this particular day he was so concerned that he took his mom and friend with him because of that concern.

His story just doesn't ring true, but that's not enough to convict.

I am inclined to agree with what you say here, except my description of the evidence handling by the police would not be as polite as yours.

[JR2007]

With the Thread going well over the five-thousand posts mark, it makes it hard to find reference to past events. It would be nice if we could break down each discussion by person, event, piece of evidence. For instance, maybe having one separate Thread that talks about the alleged murder weapon - and nothing else. Another would only talk about the entrances into Nona's apartment. Another would only talk about text messages. I know it is very late in the game - but we should atleast reconsider everything by breaking it down. Good idea, or no?

The trial is over so I don't know what the point would be in rehashing things. The Jury has done it's job as best they could. The LE and/or Prosecutor didn't do theirs well enough.

[christina]

I only skimmed this, but it appears this man was trying to sue over an assault and battery incident, which apparently carries a statute of limitations of one year. He was claiming that he could file under the statute of limitations for damage to personal property, which appears in the opinion to be 3 years. He appears to have failed and the suit dismissed because he could not show that any of his personal property had been damaged.

I couldn't find a reference to a wrongful death claim in that link, but I didn't read the whole thing.

Good catch

[christina]

Christina
Thanks a lot for helping to keep us informed with the trial, as best you could. You did a pretty good job of trying to be fair and unbiased. At time it showed through a little, better then I would have done, all in all great job.:)
Thanks, again

You are welcome JR. It was not something I set out to do but now that it is over, I am glad I had the opportunity.
It drained me more than I expected. I came home crieing more than one of the nights. I can not begin to describe to you the tension I felt and the other people on my row exhibited when the jury walked back in with the verdict.

[oxfordwebster]

I can not begin to describe to you the tension I felt and the other people on my row exhibited when the jury walked back in with the verdict.They should have been tense. The defense couldn't explain adequately enough his print, his lack of alibi, and his lies. Kevin Jones is very lucky that the jury decided to put the police department on trial instead of him.

[christina]

It's fairly obvious that the police didn't do and excellent job of collecting evidence in this case and that the jury could find "reasonable doubt".

It's also fairly obvious that Jones made some wise decisions in this whole ordeal in waiting so long to "find" Nona and to contaminate himself upon re-entry into the house. He also made a wise decision in spending a lot of money to hire a very good defense team.

I have no doubt that he did it, but the case was tough. No forced entry, no sexual assault, the level of violence, the opportuniy was there, a bloody palm print on the light bulb? I truly believe he is guilty. A stranger doesn't stab someone 17 times, strangle and bludgeon without either burglarizing or sexually assaulting the victim. This was a very personal crime. I also find it odd that this particular day he was so concerned that he took his mom and friend with him because of that concern.

His story just doesn't ring true, but that's not enough to convict.

This is a good observation. The problem I had, and it seems the jury did as well, is that Ms Dirksmeyer had many personal male friends. Evidenced by the number of text messages and calls to other than Jones. I asked around and found out that her cell phone records for several weeks were submitted to the jury. On there were many from the "jarod" the jury asked about. They had that evidence back there to study while deliberating. I surmise that is why they asked the question. It tells me they saw that Jones was not the only one with motive and opportunity-thus-reasonable doubt.

[christina]

The least we can do

A killer walks among us. Thursday afternoon, a jury in Ozark decided Kevin Jones is not that killer, but their verdict begs the question: If Jones is not responsible for the death of Nona Dirksmeyer, then who is?
It’s a question we may never know the answer to, because the truth died with her on Dec. 15, 2005.
We are not so naive as to think the testimony and evidence presented at a murder trial is in any way the whole story — both the prosecution and defense pick and choose what the jury will see, what they feel best bolsters their case.
But the picture presented of the Russellville Police Department’s investigation is a disturbing one, and its impact on our city is one that requires much thought and careful scrutiny. Are RPD officers bumbling nincompoops, as the defense tried to portray them? Or are they hard-working public servants caught in a tug-of-war between the state’s over-extended criminal justice system and high-priced defense attorneys with an army of expert witnesses at their disposal? Or is it somewhere in between?
It’s time to take a hard look and ask even harder questions.
Questions should also be asked of 5th Judicial District Prosecuting Attorney David Gibbons. It’s common sense that a prosecution is built not only on proving the accused did the crime, but on also definitively ruling out anyone else. Obviously, the latter aim was not accomplished to the jury’s satisfaction.
So what’s the real story? Did the state perform the required due diligence in its pursuit of justice for Nona?
These questions, left unanswered, could erode the trust the people have placed in those sworn to protect us. A trust that is sometimes literally a matter of life and death.
While the jury didn’t get the whole story, it’s time for a full accounting to the public. It’s time to prove the public’s trust is not misplaced. It’s also time to take stock in what lessons can be learned from this experience for all involved, so that next time, justice can be administered to the guilty.
With the lifting of the gag order, we plan to pursue the whole story, by asking for previously unreleased documents from the case as well as talking to Gibbons, the RPD, the state crime lab, the defense and other related parties. It is our aim to find the missing pieces to this puzzle.
It’s the least we can do for Nona’s memory.

[nobody]

The trial is over so I don't know what the point would be in rehashing things.

I would hope that the prosecution would not stop that easy - They said in interview "We will keep the case open, for a short time."

[optimumprimal78]

I was watching the video that was on the Channel 4 website and I was thinking if they have evidence that the DNA on the condom wrapper was someone elses then whose was it? You would think that they would have said who or at least had tests done on their own.

[christina]

They should have been tense. The defense couldn't explain adequately enough his print, his lack of alibi, and his lies. Kevin Jones is very lucky that the jury decided to put the police department on trial instead of him.

It appears you are making judgments here, and they seem unfounded to me. The evidence the jury asked for(video of Jones voluntary interview, the cell records and the light bulb) and the comments made by the one juror do not support your comments.

[christina]

I was watching the video that was on the Channel 4 website and I was thinking if they have evidence that the DNA on the condom wrapper was someone elses then whose was it? You would think that they would have said who or at least had tests done on their own.

This was adressed in closing arguments. The only people that have the legal right to ask for fingerprints or dna are the police and prosecutor, the defense can not. The only people they got fingerprints from were Jones, Trey York, Carol Dipert, Ryan Whiteside and Janice Jones. The only person they got dna from was Jones, and of course the victim.

[lorettalockhorn]

With the Thread going well over the five-thousand posts mark, it makes it hard to find reference to past events. It would be nice if we could break down each discussion by person, event, piece of evidence. For instance, maybe having one separate Thread that talks about the alleged murder weapon - and nothing else. Another would only talk about the entrances into Nona's apartment. Another would only talk about text messages. I know it is very late in the game - but we should atleast reconsider everything by breaking it down. Good idea, or no?

Was Whiteside (Ryan) ever a suspect? If so, what was his alibi? I can't seem to find reference. Was he the person that Kevin asked to stop and check on Nona - but said something to the affect of nobody answered?

Please prove this notion wrong.

He was there watching Kevin at the crime scene - but not on the phone - what was he doing? Could some of those DNA or fingerprints been his? He was also at the latter rape allegation party - in the report as one of the suspects. I did not state a motive - just small details that seem to be muted. I could see the defense not wanting to suggest Whiteside - on behalf of relationship to Jones.

Crime Library has an excellent search function. A lot of information can be gathered that way; click on search, then advanced and fill in the parameters. It's so much better than the practically non-existant search functions on other boards where I post.

Yea! Crime Library!

[oxfordwebster]

It appears you are making judgments here, and they seem unfounded to me. The evidence the jury asked for(video of Jones voluntary interview, the cell records and the light bulb) and the comments made by the one juror do not support your comments.The published trial testimony does, and I haven't seen a single, substantial justification by a juror yet why they made their decision in such a short amount of time when they had such a smokescreen to work through.

Evoking God in the deliberation room doesn't cut it. Claiming that they couldn't place Jones' print at the time was contradicted by the testimony of the prosecution witness and unwittingly by Kilbourn.

I don't have faith that the jury even did their job properly, or they would have evaluated the evidence that was presented and not hunted for more. They also should have been sequestered.

[lorettalockhorn]

I was watching the video that was on the Channel 4 website and I was thinking if they have evidence that the DNA on the condom wrapper was someone elses then whose was it? You would think that they would have said who or at least had tests done on their own.

The only way that they would know whose DNA it is; would be if the donor's DNA was in a database. So far there hasn't been enough evidence to compel a sample from anyone other than Jones. Maybe that will change.

One thing that I'm fairly certain of, is that the "real killer" wouldn't have left a condom with his own DNA in plan sight.

[christina]

The only way that they would know whose DNA it is; would be if the donor's DNA was in a database. So far there hasn't been enough evidence to compel a sample from anyone other than Jones. Maybe that will change.

One thing that I'm fairly certain of, is that the "real killer" wouldn't have left a condom with his own DNA in plan sight.

Loretta, you have said you believe Jones is the real killer and he left his palm print in plain sight. What is the difference?

[lorettalockhorn]

The published trial testimony does, and I haven't seen a single, substantial justification by a juror yet why they made their decision in such a short amount of time when they had such a smokescreen to work through.

Evoking God in the deliberation room doesn't cut it. Claiming that they couldn't place Jones' print at the time was contradicted by the testimony of the prosecution witness and unwittingly by Kilbourn.

I don't have faith that the jury even did their job properly, or they would have evaluated the evidence that was presented and not hunted for more. They also should have been sequestered.

While it would appear that the jury's curiosity about Jared? is a hint that they had reasonable doubt within three hours of deliberation; I'll agree with the rest of your statement. Maybe the technical issues were too complicated for them to be bothered with and they stuck to simpler matters. I don't see how the unclotted blood didn't send up a red flag.

Also, they were not allowed to consider a lesser charge; I can't help but think that that in itself could have made a difference.

[lorettalockhorn]

Loretta, you have said you believe Jones is the real killer and he left his palm print in plain sight. What is the difference?

Bristow referred to the "real killer" to the media. I put it in quotations because I believe that KJ was the real killer.

[christina]

The published trial testimony does, and I haven't seen a single, substantial justification by a juror yet why they made their decision in such a short amount of time when they had such a smokescreen to work through.

Evoking God in the deliberation room doesn't cut it. Claiming that they couldn't place Jones' print at the time was contradicted by the testimony of the prosecution witness and unwittingly by Kilbourn.

I don't have faith that the jury even did their job properly, or they would have evaluated the evidence that was presented and not hunted for more. They also should have been sequestered.

They sat through 7 days of testimony, and deliberated 8 and a half hours. That is not short to me, and I speak from experience.

I agree, they should have been sequestered.

[christina]

Bristow referred to the "real killer" to the media. I put it in quotations because I believe that KJ was the real killer.

My question wasn't about that term, it had to do with your logic. You said that the reall killer wouldn't have left a wrapper with dna behind. Why then, if you believe Jones is the killer, do you think he left his palm print behind?

[oxfordwebster]

They sat through 7 days of testimony, and deliberated 8 and a half hours. That is not short to me, and I speak from experience.I'm not going to count three hours of taped interview viewing as part of their deliberation.

[oxfordwebster]

My question wasn't about that term, it had to do with your logic. You said that the reall killer wouldn't have left a wrapper with dna behind. Why then, if you believe Jones is the killer, do you think he left his palm print behind?If the "real killer" is the person whose DNA matches the condom, why were there no signs of forced entry? No signs of sexual assault?

You have to really stretch for this one.

[beachbum]

Just curious to see how many young women will want to date KJ. :seeya:

[LurkerNoMore]

If the "real killer" is the person whose DNA matches the condom, why were there no signs of forced entry? No signs of sexual assault?

You have to really stretch for this one.

Well, you've force me to do what I swore I wouldn't do, and that's post again.

Is it really that impossible to picture a scenario where the victim let another individual enter the apartment? Where consensual sex occurred? Or almost occurred? Just because there weren't signs of forced sex does not mean that sex didn't occur. It is my opinion that there was no evil genius at work here. I don't think the condom was a plant. I think it was a mistake. There's a few people who have been mentioned whose DNA might match that on the condom wrapper. While the DNA doesn't automatically point to the guilty party, it does, in my mind, indicate that someone had or intended to have sex with the victim around the time of her death. Even going with the theory that Kevin saw the condom wrapper and became enraged, which I don't believe happened, the DNA on the wrapper is someone's.

Carol said on Channel 7 that the murderer had to be one of the three key owners. That's just not logical. Forced entry doesn't require signs of forced entry. She could have been pushed back. Or, as stated above, the murderer could have been invited in.

Also, as far as a civil case goes, yeah, Kevin could be compelled to testify or give a deposition, but... so could other people. All kinds of third-party evidence could be brought in. IMO Kevin's defense in a civil case would be much, much easier. And besides, say they get a judgment against Kevin, which I seriously doubt would happen. Where are the going to collect it from?

Emotions ran high yesterday, on both sides, but I think I can add to the conversation here. For better or for worse, I think I'll stick around. I think I can hold my own.

[hawgustusgloop]

My question wasn't about that term, it had to do with your logic. You said that the reall killer wouldn't have left a wrapper with dna behind. Why then, if you believe Jones is the killer, do you think he left his palm print behind?

I can't say for sure, but I would imagine that if he were the killer, he would have left the palm print behind because he didn't know it was there and was probably more concerned with leaving fingerprints than palm prints. IMO he may have purposely touched it with his palm to avoid leaving fingerprints. Who knows? People commit crimes and leave prints behind ALL THE TIME. That is how a lot of them get convicted.

[TJEddie]

If the "real killer" is the person whose DNA matches the condom, why were there no signs of forced entry? No signs of sexual assault?

You have to really stretch for this one.

You know I have a pet theory on this that I don't think is a stretch at all. Others are free to disagree, of course.

We know that Nona had asked at least 2 boys to spend the night with her....one admitted to sex, the other didn't, but whatever the case, I consider that behavior to be sexually inviting. Easily interpreted as an invitation for sex. There was also testimony alluding to sexual trysts in the music department, etc. Bottom line: Nona was sexually active/provocative with other males besides Kevin.

I think the reason there was no forced entry is because Nona knew this person and let him in willingly. I think the condom wrapper on the table could be an indication that he was there for sex. Given Kevin's arrival back in town and the loving reception Nona gave him, it would stand to reason that her other guys would be given the boot. Maybe this guy didn't take the news well. Maybe he took an "oh yes you will" stance and she was forced to undress.

This is where a bit of old history pops into my mind. Kevin (for those of you who still believe anything he says) told a story about Nona reportedly kicking a guy in the groin when he made a pass at her. Dangerous behavior, IMO. Unless you kick hard enough to incapacitate the guy, you've got an angry, injured bull on your hands. I can see how a scenario like that could turn into a rage filled attack.....one specifically designed make the victim feel pain, and one that might continue for several minutes.

There ya go, kids.....have at it.

[LurkerNoMore]

You know I have a pet theory on this that I don't think is a stretch at all. Others are free to disagree, of course.

We know that Nona had asked at least 2 boys to spend the night with her....one admitted to sex, the other didn't, but whatever the case, I consider that behavior to be sexually inviting. Easily interpreted as an invitation for sex. There was also testimony alluding to sexual trysts in the music department, etc. Bottom line: Nona was sexually active/provocative with other males besides Kevin.

I think the reason there was no forced entry is because Nona knew this person and let him in willingly. I think the condom wrapper on the table could be an indication that he was there for sex. Given Kevin's arrival back in town and the loving reception Nona gave him, it would stand to reason that her other guys would be given the boot. Maybe this guy didn't take the news well. Maybe he took an "oh yes you will" stance and she was forced to undress.

This is where a bit of old history pops into my mind. Kevin (for those of you who still believe anything he says) told a story about Nona reportedly kicking a guy in the groin when he made a pass at her. Dangerous behavior, IMO. Unless you kick hard enough to incapacitate the guy, you've got an angry, injured bull on your hands. I can see how a scenario like that could turn into a rage filled attack.....one specifically designed make the victim feel pain, and one that might continue for several minutes.

There ya go, kids.....have at it.

TJEddie,

I think you said it better than I did. But we think alike here.

[lorettalockhorn]

My question wasn't about that term, it had to do with your logic. You said that the reall killer wouldn't have left a wrapper with dna behind. Why then, if you believe Jones is the killer, do you think he left his palm print behind?


Hey, I never said that KJ has the mind of an organized serial killer or anything. After he realized that the attack had gone too far and that he had to kill Nona, he knew that he had to get the heck out of dodge and simply didn't get it cleaned up. It's likely that his prints were on the cell phone as well.

[hawgustusgloop]

>snip<
And besides, say they get a judgment against Kevin, which I seriously doubt would happen. Where are the going to collect it from?


Maybe it's like in the O.J. civil trial where it wasn't so much about collecting the money. I think they feel justice has not been served, and maybe they feel like that is the only legal channel they have left to collect a little bit of Justice for Nona.

[oxfordwebster]

I think the reason there was no forced entry is because Nona knew this person and let him in willingly. I think the condom wrapper on the table could be an indication that he was there for sex. Given Kevin's arrival back in town and the loving reception Nona gave him, it would stand to reason that her other guys would be given the boot. Maybe this guy didn't take the news well. Maybe he took an "oh yes you will" stance and she was forced to undress.Or maybe she gave him a "loving reception" (which you don't know about and that characterization is stretching it) because Nona has been and was scared of Kevin. He then found out about the other guys over the next few days.

[LurkerNoMore]

Sorry if this has already been posted today. Arkansas Code Annotated 16-62-102(c) states that every action [for wrongful death] shall be commenced within three (3) years after the death of the person.

I know the three years had been stated on the board with some discussion around it, but I didn't remember seeing the source.

[LurkerNoMore]

Or maybe she gave him a "loving reception" (which you don't know about and that characterization is stretching it) because Nona has been and was scared of Kevin. He then found out about the other guys over the next few days.

Don't you think knowing whose DNA is on the condom wrapper could add something in the search for the truth, whatever it may be?

[TJEddie]

Or maybe she gave him a "loving reception" (which you don't know about and that characterization is stretching it) because Nona has been and was scared of Kevin. He then found out about the other guys over the next few days.

1) Nona slept with Kevin the night of Dec. 13, when he arrived home from college.

2) On the morning of the 15th, Nona sent Kevin a text message.....Good morning, cuddlemuffin. I love you. Have a great day.

Yes, I call that a loving reception.

[LurkerNoMore]

Or maybe she gave him a "loving reception" (which you don't know about and that characterization is stretching it) because Nona has been and was scared of Kevin. He then found out about the other guys over the next few days.

Is this just your gut feeling, or was it actually stated somewhere that Nona was scared of Kevin? I've seen absolutely no indication of this that I can remember.

[Hoodwinked]

This is a good observation. The problem I had, and it seems the jury did as well, is that Ms Dirksmeyer had many personal male friends. Evidenced by the number of text messages and calls to other than Jones. I asked around and found out that her cell phone records for several weeks were submitted to the jury. On there were many from the "jarod" the jury asked about. They had that evidence back there to study while deliberating. I surmise that is why they asked the question. It tells me they saw that Jones was not the only one with motive and opportunity-thus-reasonable doubt.
My own personal experience with siblings decades younfer than me is that they communicate via text, instant message and other means much more than my generation and before. They also tend to have a less romantic attitude about sex than we do. It doesn't sound to me like she was all that sexually active in relation to the normal college girl. She had sex with Jones and also with one other guy one time that we know of, right? Text messaging is not evidence of a relationship or sexual contact at all. Kids (also some college football coaches) text about as often as they breath. It's easy and it requires very little nerve.

Some other guys may have found her attractive, but only one had a relationship and intense emotional bond to the point of proposing that we know of.

Also, none of those other guys left a bloody palm print on a light bulb. I know the defense theory that he simply forgot touching the bulb upon discovering her body, but I just don't see how he accidentally touches a light bulb in that situation. Accidentally touching it when you are putting it back in place after beating someone with the lamp makes sense, but why in the world would he touch the bulb when he found her and why didn't he or the other two witnesses remember him doing so?

I just can't buy it.

[lorettalockhorn]

Sorry if this has already been posted today. Arkansas Code Annotated 16-62-102(c) states that every action [for wrongful death] shall be commenced within three (3) years after the death of the person.

I know the three years had been stated on the board with some discussion around it, but I didn't remember seeing the source.


I posted this earlier this afternoon also:


Found this:

http://www.the-injury-lawyer-directory.com/statutes_arkansas.html

Also, this exception may apply:

In Arkansas, when the injured party is under 21 that party ordinarily has 3 years after his or her 21st birthday to file his or her claim. This applies in all cases except for wrongful death claims.

[Riviera]

KJ"S friends and family have not been posting on this Kevin bashing website. As the old saying goes keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

This is absolutely false. And as for that saying, wouldn't that apply to people pretending to be sympathetic or friendly, but who are really trying to manipulate people in an unethical way?

Sorry, but I'm going to call BS. It's not my place to start outing people, but you're extremely naive if you think this.

Just a reminder ---->

Infractions are given for more notable violations of rules and standards. Typical infractions include:

Outing nics and real world ids (1-2 pts)

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?p=8907053#post8907053

Thank you.

[lorettalockhorn]

Maybe it's like in the O.J. civil trial where it wasn't so much about collecting the money. I think they feel justice has not been served, and maybe they feel like that is the only legal channel they have left to collect a little bit of Justice for Nona.

I agree Hawg.

[LurkerNoMore]

why in the world would he touch the bulb when he found her and why didn't he or the other two witnesses remember him doing so?

I just can't buy it.

Does a person remember every detail about the most traumatic event in his or her life?

Were Janice and Ryan watching Kevin like a hawk? Or were they in their own hell at that moment?

Many years ago, I lost a loved one, and I was told at the moment I was informed of his death, I fell to my knees and spoke words of grief.

I have no memory of this.

Just food for thought.

[lorettalockhorn]

You know I have a pet theory on this that I don't think is a stretch at all. Others are free to disagree, of course.

We know that Nona had asked at least 2 boys to spend the night with her....one admitted to sex, the other didn't, but whatever the case, I consider that behavior to be sexually inviting. Easily interpreted as an invitation for sex. There was also testimony alluding to sexual trysts in the music department, etc. Bottom line: Nona was sexually active/provocative with other males besides Kevin.

I think the reason there was no forced entry is because Nona knew this person and let him in willingly. I think the condom wrapper on the table could be an indication that he was there for sex. Given Kevin's arrival back in town and the loving reception Nona gave him, it would stand to reason that her other guys would be given the boot. Maybe this guy didn't take the news well. Maybe he took an "oh yes you will" stance and she was forced to undress.

This is where a bit of old history pops into my mind. Kevin (for those of you who still believe anything he says) told a story about Nona reportedly kicking a guy in the groin when he made a pass at her. Dangerous behavior, IMO. Unless you kick hard enough to incapacitate the guy, you've got an angry, injured bull on your hands. I can see how a scenario like that could turn into a rage filled attack.....one specifically designed make the victim feel pain, and one that might continue for several minutes.

There ya go, kids.....have at it.

Well, fortunately disagreements aren't too serious here!

If we're going to consider that stepping outside the relationship, trysting, provacative behavior, etc. is the motive for someone other than KJ to have committed the crime, we may as well include his other partners. A woman could have killed Nona, leaving behind a condom wrapper belonging to one of her other partners.

(And thank goodness people still use condoms these days!)

[LurkerNoMore]

Well, fortunately disagreements aren't too serious here!

If we're going to consider that stepping outside the relationship, trysting, provacative behavior, etc. is the motive for someone other than KJ to have committed the crime, we may as well include his other partners. A woman could have killed Nona, leaving behind a condom wrapper belonging to one of her other partners.

(And thank goodness people still use condoms these days!)

I've never thought of that, Loretta. It is certainly worth considering. I was going back and reading earlier posts and one of the earliest mentioned a jealous woman. I don't rationally see how the condom wrapper got there in this scenario, but is anything rational when it comes to murder?

[upallnight]

Kevin Jones was found not guilty by an un-biased jury of his peers. I respect their decision and I agree with it. It is time to move on and find the real killer.

When a person is found not guilty of murder and released back into our world and then killed someone I wonder what you would think about the prior case if it was your family member that was murdered. (not trying to be mean but just IMO). I think that is what many of us are worried about. No one knows but there is as much of a possibility that could happen also. The police charged him for reasons that the evidence they had as shown to the jury, if it did not prove it to a jury that is yet another story. The verdict is just that, it is not a video of the actual events to let all know if he did or did not do it. It is just their OPINION. The police did not kill Nona, Kevin may or may not have and I would feel the same way if he would have been found guilty, their is no clear cut way that shows 100% guilt or not guilty. This guy could have gone to prison if found guilty and may not have done it. Either way, that is what a jury is to decide but again it does not prove 100% guilty or not guilty, it is only their opinion of the evidence before them, and hopefully that was all that they used to make their decision, but they did not have a video of this terrible murder in progress either. I feel for both families, Justice For Nona, I wish we knew the truth but unless we was there and saw the murder happen, none of us know for sure. What I see as one thing you may see another way and that's ok because in the end it's all about catching the person who murdered this girl. To date their is a MURDER walking free no matter who he or she may be, that is a bad thing and even worse that person could do it again. I sure do not know what the answer is but it is so terrible for Nona and her family either way. For Nona and her family and all who are are in pain because of this horrible crime. God bless you all! :rose:

[TJEddie]

Well, fortunately disagreements aren't too serious here!

If we're going to consider that stepping outside the relationship, trysting, provacative behavior, etc. is the motive for someone other than KJ to have committed the crime, we may as well include his other partners. A woman could have killed Nona, leaving behind a condom wrapper belonging to one of her other partners.

(And thank goodness people still use condoms these days!)

You know, Loretta, I actually thought of the possibility of a female perp. I don't think that's what happened, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility.

Anyway, you seem to get the underlying gist of my post. Emotional involvement isn't always equal in relationships. What might be viewed as a casual tryst to one might be viewed as something much deeper to the other....and people aren't always honest about the depth of their emotional involvement, particularly when they find it isn't reciprocated.

[optimumprimal78]

I thought that in KJ's video (or whenever he discussed it) he stated that on the 13th that when they had sex he did not use a condom? If this is correct then they would have had some sort of "foreign" DNA on her to test.

I might be crazy it is Friday and all but I thought that it was mentioned.

[christina]

Sorry if this has already been posted today. Arkansas Code Annotated 16-62-102(c) states that every action [for wrongful death] shall be commenced within three (3) years after the death of the person.

I know the three years had been stated on the board with some discussion around it, but I didn't remember seeing the source.

Thank you for this. I had found this but was looking for ammendments that might have been made during the 2007 legislative session.

[christina]

I'm not going to count three hours of taped interview viewing as part of their deliberation.

We don't know they watched the entire 3 hours. The prosecution asked them to watch 2 or three sections of it in their closing argument.

[christina]

If the "real killer" is the person whose DNA matches the condom, why were there no signs of forced entry? No signs of sexual assault?

You have to really stretch for this one.

Its not a stretch that she let someone else into the apartment. Example-We know she received a text from Trey York at 11:05. He testified he was wanting to come to the apartment that morning and return a cake pan since he was leaving for Ashdown that afternoon. Their biology lab partner testified he thought York and Dirksmeyer were dating. York testified he had been to her apartment. And they had been texting several times a day right up to the 15th.

[hawgustusgloop]

Thank you for this. I had found this but was looking for ammendments that might have been made during the 2007 legislative session.

If there were any changes, would they apply, or would it be the statute of limitations that was in place at the time of the murder?

[christina]

I thought that in KJ's video (or whenever he discussed it) he stated that on the 13th that when they had sex he did not use a condom? If this is correct then they would have had some sort of "foreign" DNA on her to test.

I might be crazy it is Friday and all but I thought that it was mentioned.

Jones told in his voluntary interview that he and Nona did not use condoms because she was on the pill.
There would not neccessarily be another's dna if a condom was used for consenual sex.

[christina]

If there were any changes, would they apply, or would it be the statute of limitations that was in place at the time of the murder?

Excellent question. I would guess when the murder took place. Any law experts out there?

[christina]

Well, fortunately disagreements aren't too serious here!

If we're going to consider that stepping outside the relationship, trysting, provacative behavior, etc. is the motive for someone other than KJ to have committed the crime, we may as well include his other partners. A woman could have killed Nona, leaving behind a condom wrapper belonging to one of her other partners.

(And thank goodness people still use condoms these days!)


Preach it sista!!

[lorettalockhorn]

You know, Loretta, I actually thought of the possibility of a female perp. I don't think that's what happened, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility.

Anyway, you seem to get the underlying gist of my post. Emotional involvement isn't always equal in relationships. What might be viewed as a casual tryst to one might be viewed as something much deeper to the other....and people aren't always honest about the depth of their emotional involvement, particularly when they find it isn't reciprocated.


I try to "get" everyones' posts. Some are easier than others.

Not outside the realm of possiblity at all. There are plenty of females who go to the gym and spar or lift weights, and who paddle for recreation, for instance. They could have enough upper body strength to wield the lamp with tremendous force. There are also women who run, hike, etc. who would have the physical stamina to commit the crime and leave the scene through the woods or by simply jogging down the street to another set of apartments or wherever her car might have been parked.

[christina]

Or maybe she gave him a "loving reception" (which you don't know about and that characterization is stretching it) because Nona has been and was scared of Kevin. He then found out about the other guys over the next few days.

Unlike the OJ/Nicole Simpson event in which there was a documented history of abuse on his part, there was no report of abuse between Jones and Nona. The only testimony on an argument was between Nona and an unknown male witnessed by the neighbor.

[christina]

I try to "get" everyones' posts. Some are easier than others.

Not outside the realm of possiblity at all. There are plenty of females who go to the gym and spar or lift weights, and who paddle for recreation, for instance. They could have enough upper body strength to wield the lamp with tremendous force. There are also women who run, hike, etc. who would have the physical stamina to commit the crime and leave the scene through the woods or by simply jogging down the street to another set of apartments or wherever her car might have been parked.

This scenario is interesting but not as probable to me. But, I wonder if any of Jones or Nona's sex partners had jealous partner's?

[lorettalockhorn]

[/B]


Preach it sista!!

I know. When I think about the fact that Kevin and Nona didn't use condoms, I can't help but wonder about the other people that they had sex with who might also not have used condoms with them or their other partners. Whether they had actual intercourse with two partners or twenty in reality; there is no telling how many people they had sex with in theory.

*climbs off soapbox*

[optimumprimal78]

Jones told in his voluntary interview that he and Nona did not use condoms because she was on the pill.
There would not neccessarily be another's dna if a condom was used for consenual sex.

Sorry for my thinking but couldn't they compare DNA found from KJ during her autopsy (i know its a little late for that) and compare it to any others that they had? For example, they said that there was DNA on the wrapper. They could compare that with what was found during the autopsy.

[lorettalockhorn]

Apologize for going back to something that may be resolved, but I am having a dickens of a time staying on the board and keeping up with who posted what/when.

Anyway, someone(s) posted about Nona having let the killer into the apartment and the major problem that I have with that, is that Sara Bailey testified that when you came to visit Nona, you had to call ahead (like me!) in order for her to let you in. (Unlike me, she didn't keep a loaded .410 next to the door.) I have such a hard time believing (since her phone didn't indicate any such call), that she would have opened the door to anyone other than KJ.

Sorry if this is redundant.

[oxfordwebster]

Since I was quoted in a post by a moderator as a warning, all for calling out the BS for what it is, I doubt I will be sticking around any longer.

There's a hell of a chance those jurors read this thread because they were not sequestered, and this thread was manipulated at all the right times. If I'm going to get warned for calling it out, this place is no longer worth anything to me.

[lorettalockhorn]

Since I was quoted in a post by a moderator as a warning, all for calling out the BS for what it is, I doubt I will be sticking around any longer.

There's a hell of a chance those jurors read this thread because they were not sequestered, and this thread was manipulated at all the right times. If I'm going to get warned for calling it out, this place is no longer worth anything to me.

Aww Ox, don't go GCB on us!!

[christina]

Apologize for going back to something that may be resolved, but I am having a dickens of a time staying on the board and keeping up with who posted what/when.

Anyway, someone(s) posted about Nona having let the killer into the apartment and the major problem that I have with that, is that Sara Bailey testified that when you came to visit Nona, you had to call ahead (like me!) in order for her to let you in. (Unlike me, she didn't keep a loaded .410 next to the door.) I have such a hard time believing (since her phone didn't indicate any such call), that she would have opened the door to anyone other than KJ.

Sorry if this is redundant.

I understand your logic here and yes, it was testified to that Sara and the young man from NWA had to call prior to being let in. They were the only two though.
So- you a member of the NRA Loretta?

[christina]

Aww Ox, don't go GCB on us!!

I missed something here- why is someone being called out and what is GCB?

[christina]

Sorry for my thinking but couldn't they compare DNA found from KJ during her autopsy (i know its a little late for that) and compare it to any others that they had? For example, they said that there was DNA on the wrapper. They could compare that with what was found during the autopsy.

The crime lab did not find semen on the vaginal swab taken during the autopsy. The defense expert did and typed its dna to Jones. Since the semen had no tails the expert said it meant it was a couple days old. They found the same for the underwear.

[christina]

I know. When I think about the fact that Kevin and Nona didn't use condoms, I can't help but wonder about the other people that they had sex with who might also not have used condoms with them or their other partners. Whether they had actual intercourse with two partners or twenty in reality; there is no telling how many people they had sex with in theory.

*climbs off soapbox*

I was on the soapbox with you. My college kids have heard it before too.

[oxfordwebster]

I missed something here- why is someone being called out and what is GCB?I'm not calling anybody out, specifically. I can't tell who anybody is behind these user names.

But since you haven't been around the entire time, maybe you've missed the extremely shady posters that have popped in from time to time. You can't go back and read some of it because they were deleted for being so blatantly connected to people interested in manipulating this thread.

And, as I've already pointed out multiple times, the sudden group of new posters who came in conveniently all at the same time to talk about how Trey York was the killer--and by new poster I mean newly registered--were also extremely convenient.

I can't call anyone out in particular because CL doesn't let you have access to that kind of information. But the behavior and patterns that have gone on in this thread since even the early days should have been such a huge warning flag to everybody.

[lorettalockhorn]

I understand your logic here and yes, it was testified to that Sara and the young man from NWA had to call prior to being let in. They were the only two though.
So- you a member of the NRA Loretta?

No, no NRA for me. Just a low tolerance for people who are too rude in this day and age of phones, cell phones, pagers, faxes, email, instant messaging, etc. to have the common courtesy to let you know that they're coming over uninvited.

Oh and because I'm home alone a lot and with new construction going on, there is a lot of traffic that I don't recognize during the week.

[LurkerNoMore]

And, as I've already pointed out multiple times, the sudden group of new posters who came in conveniently all at the same time to talk about how Trey York was the killer--and by new poster I mean newly registered--were also extremely convenient.

To look at Trey York with some suspicion is not irrational or unreasonable. He was viewed a suspect at one time. The police ruled him out as a suspect, but do we have faith in the police? Heck of a job, Frostie.

[oxfordwebster]

To look at Trey York with some suspicion is not irrational or unreasonable. He was viewed a suspect at one time. The police ruled him out as a suspect, but do we have faith in the police? Heck of a job, Frostie.There were a batch of six suspects early on, and I doubt most of them had anything coming close to having anything to do with her death other than the fact that Kevin's team pointed some fingers.

You show me Trey's bloody print on a murder weapon, and I'll think he's more suspect than Kevin.

[upallnight]

Well, you've force me to do what I swore I wouldn't do, and that's post again.

Is it really that impossible to picture a scenario where the victim let another individual enter the apartment? Where consensual sex occurred? Or almost occurred? Just because there weren't signs of forced sex does not mean that sex didn't occur. It is my opinion that there was no evil genius at work here. I don't think the condom was a plant. I think it was a mistake. There's a few people who have been mentioned whose DNA might match that on the condom wrapper. While the DNA doesn't automatically point to the guilty party, it does, in my mind, indicate that someone had or intended to have sex with the victim around the time of her death. Even going with the theory that Kevin saw the condom wrapper and became enraged, which I don't believe happened, the DNA on the wrapper is someone's.

Carol said on Channel 7 that the murderer had to be one of the three key owners. That's just not logical. Forced entry doesn't require signs of forced entry. She could have been pushed back. Or, as stated above, the murderer could have been invited in.

Also, as far as a civil case goes, yeah, Kevin could be compelled to testify or give a deposition, but... so could other people. All kinds of third-party evidence could be brought in. IMO Kevin's defense in a civil case would be much, much easier. And besides, say they get a judgment against Kevin, which I seriously doubt would happen. Where are the going to collect it from?

Emotions ran high yesterday, on both sides, but I think I can add to the conversation here. For better or for worse, I think I'll stick around. I think I can hold my own.


A judgment could be collected from any of his future earnings, etc., it could possibly make his life pretty bad to have to give into a judgment against him all except a % he has to have for basic living expenses. I may be wrong on this but his youth and lack of funds now will change down the road possibly and a judgment against him could have first dibbs on some of those earnings.

[LurkerNoMore]

Last night, as I went to bed, this thought hit me.

And I know several of you don't believe that Kevin is innocent.

But if Kevin is innocent, as I believe, then last night was a rough night for the person who really did this.

If Kevin didn't do it, the person who did murder Nona was pulling for Kevin's conviction.

Now that person has to look over their shoulder.

Regardless of where each of us stands on this case, we all want the truth.

[christina]

No, no NRA for me. Just a low tolerance for people who are too rude in this day and age of phones, cell phones, pagers, faxes, email, instant messaging, etc. to have the common courtesy to let you know that they're coming over uninvited.

Oh and because I'm home alone a lot and with new construction going on, there is a lot of traffic that I don't recognize during the week.

Your edit reason made me laugh out loud! The reason I asked, is I am for the first time considering getting a gun.

[LurkerNoMore]

A judgment could be collected from any of his future earnings, etc., it could possibly make his life pretty bad to have to give into a judgment against him all except a % he has to have for basic living expenses. I may be wrong on this but his youth and lack of funds now will change down the road possibly and a judgment against him could have first dibbs on some of those earnings.

I will have to check, and it may be Monday before I can, but I think there's a statute of limitations on the collection of judgments.

[christina]

There were a batch of six suspects early on, and I doubt most of them had anything coming close to having anything to do with her death other than the fact that Kevin's team pointed some fingers.

You show me Trey's bloody print on a murder weapon, and I'll think he's more suspect than Kevin.

Another poster mentioned 6 suspects were early on. I asked some police and they said there were really only two. Testified at the trial was there were only two- York and Jones. They were both interviewed within a short time of the murder and fingerprinted at that time. I have thought that when the results of the print on the bulb came back, they aimed at Jones. I see their reasoning.

[oxfordwebster]

Another poster mentioned 6 suspects were early on. I asked some police and they said there were really only two. Testified at the trial was there were only two- York and Jones. They were both interviewed within a short time of the murder and fingerprinted at that time. I have thought that when the results of the print on the bulb came back, they aimed at Jones. I see their reasoning.There were six "people of interest" then, early on. It's pretty clear that there were more than two just, for example, the defense name-dropping people at those hearings. Like I said, only two were probably looked at seriously, and one of them was Kevin after York was obviously not it. The other four were probably just defamed by the defense team to get involved.

[christina]

Last night, as I went to bed, this thought hit me.

And I know several of you don't believe that Kevin is innocent.

But if Kevin is innocent, as I believe, then last night was a rough night for the person who really did this.

If Kevin didn't do it, the person who did murder Nona was pulling for Kevin's conviction.

Now that person has to look over their shoulder.

Regardless of where each of us stands on this case, we all want the truth.

I had that thought several times during the last week, to the point I even thought of investigating things myself.
The Dirksmeyer family deserves to know for sure. If this blog represents a cross section of the public, than most of them believe Jones is the one that killed Nona. And because he was found not guilty, the real possiblity exists that the real killer is out there.

[oxfordwebster]

As a heads-up, I was just told that there is supposed to be some interviews with Tech students on channel 11 coming up here at 6:00. It'll be interesting to see who and what the station decides to cut and use.

[oxfordwebster]

And because he was found not guilty, the real possiblity exists that the real killer is out there.Do you believe that guilty people can be found not guilty?

[christina]

There were six "people of interest" then, early on. It's pretty clear that there were more than two just, for example, the defense name-dropping people at those hearings. Like I said, only two were probably looked at seriously, and one of them was Kevin after York was obviously not it. The other four were probably just defamed by the defense team to get involved.

Oh, so you are just using the defense, not the detectives as a resource on this.
Jones was interviewed within an hour of finding Nona's body. It was very convenient for the police as Jones was sitting right there. York had left for and was in Ashdown when the police contacted him. They performed their interview rumor has it, in the wee morning hours, definitely not convenient. I wonder what led them to York that early on as the police had not accessed the texts on Nona's phone at that point.

[christina]

Do you believe that guilty people can be found not guilty?

Yes, OJ Simpson is a perfect example of that.

[upallnight]

Yes, OJ Simpson is a perfect example of that.

I agree, and he is not the only one.

[TJEddie]

Oh, so you are just using the defense, not the detectives as a resource on this.
Jones was interviewed within an hour of finding Nona's body. It was very convenient for the police as Jones was sitting right there. York had left for and was in Ashdown when the police contacted him. They performed their interview rumor has it, in the wee morning hours, definitely not convenient. I wonder what led them to York that early on as the police had not accessed the texts on Nona's phone at that point.

I wonder, too. Was this "wee hour" interview the one where Trey already had a lawyer rounded up? Sure wish we knew what evidence was used to clear Trey.

[christina]

I wonder, too. Was this "wee hour" interview the one where Trey already had a lawyer rounded up? Sure wish we knew what evidence was used to clear Trey.

Rumor has it a lawyer was with him for that interview. We were told his alibi- took a test, went to Paradise Donuts, cleaned a coke spill up in his car, packed his dorm room, sat in Dean Hall and studied for another test and gassed his car up. Ironclad.

[oxfordwebster]

Oh, so you are just using the defense, not the detectives as a resource on this.No, it was reported early on that it was six. If you really want, I'll dig something up.

Jones was interviewed within an hour of finding Nona's body. It was very convenient for the police as Jones was sitting right there. York had left for and was in Ashdown when the police contacted him. They performed their interview rumor has it, in the wee morning hours, definitely not convenient. I wonder what led them to York that early on as the police had not accessed the texts on Nona's phone at that point.Nona was murder, so I don't really care how convenient it was for Kevin to be interviewed. (Edit: Disregard this, I misread the convenience bits.)

We don't know what led to York, and that information isn't exactly admissible since he wasn't being used in the case against Kevin. Like you, though, I wouldn't mind knowing more.

[oxfordwebster]

Rumor has it a lawyer was with him for that interview. We were told his alibi- took a test, went to Paradise Donuts, cleaned a coke spill up in his car, packed his dorm room, sat in Dean Hall and studied for another test and gassed his car up. Ironclad.Compared to Kevin's complete lack of an alibi, your sarcastic "ironclad" comment is a little much.

[christina]

No, it was reported early on that it was six. If you really want, I'll dig something up.

Nona was murder, so I don't really care how convenient it was for Kevin to be interviewed.

We don't know what led to York, and that information isn't exactly admissible since he wasn't being used in the case against Kevin. Like you, though, I wouldn't mind knowing more.

My point was that one interview the night of the murder was more convenient than the other. So the inconvenient one must have been equally as important. He was a witness for the prosecution and they spent as much time getting across his alibi as they did using him to set the timeline. He definitely was used in the case against Jones.

It seems like your tone gets harsh or angry at times when posting. Were you close to Ms Dirksmeyer or her family?

[TJEddie]

Rumor has it a lawyer was with him for that interview. We were told his alibi- took a test, went to Paradise Donuts, cleaned a coke spill up in his car, packed his dorm room, sat in Dean Hall and studied for another test and gassed his car up. Ironclad.

Forgive me for being dense, but I take it your "ironclad" is tongue in cheek?

I cannot imagine why that "cleaned spill" in his car wasn't checked out immediately. I also cannot imagine why a person who felt he needed a lawyer wouldn't also feel the need to keep a receipt or credit card statement confirming his timeline.

[christina]

Compared to Kevin's complete lack of an alibi, your sarcastic "ironclad" comment is a little much.

Jones had witnesses testifying to his whereabouts for as many hours as the defense could find. One of the scary things some of the observers in courtroom talked about during breaks- how many of us can account for every hour of our day, with witnesses to testify to it. We concluded very few.
York's alibi has as many holes as you contend Jones' does.

On a side note- I can see where you interpreted ironclad as sarcastic. I do try to word my posts in such a way that my feelings/thoughts behind the words come across as well. I failed with this one. But, you have come after me and my comments many times here. I do not want nor intend to take this to a personal level so please- peace.

[christina]

Forgive me for being dense, but I take it your "ironclad" is tongue in cheek?

I cannot imagine why that "cleaned spill" in his car wasn't checked out immediately. I also cannot imagine why a person who felt he needed a lawyer wouldn't also feel the need to keep a receipt or credit card statement confirming his timeline.

Yes, I was comparing it to the intense questioning of Jones' alibi by many here.

Nor why, since the prosecution obviously knew the defense was going to go after York, they did not produce one (receipt)during their questioning of his alibi.

[oxfordwebster]

My point was that one interview the night of the murder was more convenient than the other. So the inconvenient one must have been equally as important. He was a witness for the prosecution and they spent as much time getting across his alibi as they did using him to set the timeline. He definitely was used in the case against Jones.Do tell me what evidence Trey York had that was used to prosecute Kevin? I must have missed that.

Like I said, I'd love to know more about it, too. Maybe Kevin knew about the guy and finger-pointed pretty fast? It's not like you can trust any of them to claim he didn't, since he's a proven liar shown by both prosecution and defense witnesses.

It seems like your tone gets harsh or angry at times when posting. Were you close to Ms Dirksmeyer or her family?I've observed this case very closely since day one. I am shocked, and yes, outraged, over a jury verdict that does not match the evidence against Kevin. I'm outraged that a killer has been loose since the night she was murdered, and he will continue to be free.

I've brought up three things multiple times that have not been answered--his alibi, his multitude of lies to the police that night, and an adequate explanation for his bloody print. The jury didn't have those answers. They put the "big city" police department on trial instead to make it easier on them.

[oxfordwebster]

Yes, I was comparing it to the intense questioning of Jones' alibi by many here.

Nor why, since the prosecution obviously knew the defense was going to go after York, they did not produce one (receipt)during their questioning of his alibi.The funny thing about alibis is that the only person who has to have one is the accused, because that's exactly what an alibi is--a defense for an accused person. Trey was not on trial, as much as you think he should have been.

[christina]

I agree, and he is not the only one.

Understand. All I can offer for my reason to believe Jones did not do it, was I sat in the courtroom every day from start to finish. I even got to hear things the jury did not as they were asked to leave while the lawyers argued issues. (one example, the enhanced version of the vidoe interview where Jones supposedly said he was sorry)I saw several witnesses for the prosecution sitting in the hallway then gone by lunch or the end of the day, all without ever having testified.

[oxfordwebster]

Christina, please don't take anything I say as personal attacks or anything. I don't know who you are other than what your connection to the case is. And while the outburts from Ryan Whiteside's mom yesterday makes me question that connection, I'm not going to hold it against you.

I don't take things personally with you. I'm just not afraid to say things bluntly and to the point. Here, I'll try out one of these, uh.. things. Smilies.

:beer:

Sounds like a good idea to me.

[christina]

The funny thing about alibis is that the only person who has to have one is the accused, because that's exactly what an alibi is--a defense for an accused person. Trey was not on trial, as much as you think he should have been.

He was asked for an alibi by police. The prosecution also asked him to share his alibi with the court on the stand. It is common practice when you are a suspect, not just accused.
I have never said I think York should have been the one on trial. I have said I think he was unbelievable on the witness stand and needs to be looked into further.

[christina]

Christina, please don't take anything I say as personal attacks or anything. I don't know who you are other than what your connection to the case is. And while the outburts from Ryan Whiteside's mom yesterday makes me question that connection, I'm not going to hold it against you.

I don't take things personally with you. I'm just not afraid to say things bluntly and to the point. Here, I'll try out one of these, uh.. things. Smilies.

:beer:

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Thanks and-funny, as I just poured myself a light beer!
I was also dissappointed with Patty's remark yesterday. But like Mr Dipert, emotions were high and they need to be given wiggle room.
So, you were in the courtroom?

[christina]

Do tell me what evidence Trey York had that was used to prosecute Kevin? I must have missed that.

Like I said, I'd love to know more about it, too. Maybe Kevin knew about the guy and finger-pointed pretty fast? It's not like you can trust any of them to claim he didn't, since he's a proven liar shown by both prosecution and defense witnesses.

I've observed this case very closely since day one. I am shocked, and yes, outraged, over a jury verdict that does not match the evidence against Kevin. I'm outraged that a killer has been loose since the night she was murdered, and he will continue to be free.

I've brought up three things multiple times that have not been answered--his alibi, his multitude of lies to the police that night, and an adequate explanation for his bloody print. The jury didn't have those answers. They put the "big city" police department on trial instead to make it easier on them.

The prosecution used his 11:05 and 12:58 text messages to set the timeline for when the cell phone battery was in -then missing from Nona's phone.

You have asked these questions before, several have answered them, myself included. But I don't think you are open to our answers.

[oxfordwebster]

Thanks and-funny, as I just poured myself a light beer!Let's share what beer we're drinking, then! I just opened up a Michelob Ultra. I don't even like domestic beer, but this is all I have. :( This one is tolerable, though.

I was also dissappointed with Patty's remark yesterday. But like Mr Dipert, emotions were high and they need to be given wiggle room.
So, you were in the courtroom?Nope.

I do find it interesting that the papers have, from what I've seen, chosen to ignore that outburst from her. That could be out of respect for Dipert, but I think it's an interesting character observation.

As for York, I think we will be finding out more soon. The case files should be open to anybody using an FOI, and it sounds like the Courier is going to be digging through everything to get some answers.

There sure as hell are enough unanswered questions, that's something we can all agree on.

[oxfordwebster]

The prosecution used his 11:05 and 12:58 text messages to set the timeline for when the cell phone battery was in -then missing from Nona's phone.Those messages could have been from anyone and from different people, and it wouldn't have made a difference. That's not using York, that's analyzing what her phone did.

You have asked these questions before, several have answered them, myself included. But I don't think you are open to our answers.I'm open to any answer that made sense.

He never established his alibi for the time of the murder, and that's a fact. Even *if* you believe his grandma, and I'm going to take Kevin's own words to the police over hers, he had enough time.

He lied about his relationship with Nona. I don't care how you care to redefine the definition of relationships--he wasn't planning on proposing to her while he was sleeping with at least two confirmed girls on the side. Then again, maybe he was and he's just the type to not give a crap what he does as long as he's not caught?

My criticisms on the bloody print have yet to be answered by anybody, and I ask every single person who thinks he is innocent. The lack of blood clot evidence in that palm print is very hard to answer for, and Kilbourn's testimony helped show that.

I won't even get into, yet again, how ridiculous the explanation of how he got his print there, without anybody seeing him, by flailing his arms around behind him--gently enough to place a well enough print--while he was so busy hunched on Nona.

[TJEddie]

Do tell me what evidence Trey York had that was used to prosecute Kevin? I must have missed that.

Like I said, I'd love to know more about it, too. Maybe Kevin knew about the guy and finger-pointed pretty fast? It's not like you can trust any of them to claim he didn't, since he's a proven liar shown by both prosecution and defense witnesses.

I've observed this case very closely since day one. I am shocked, and yes, outraged, over a jury verdict that does not match the evidence against Kevin. I'm outraged that a killer has been loose since the night she was murdered, and he will continue to be free.

I've brought up three things multiple times that have not been answered--his alibi, his multitude of lies to the police that night, and an adequate explanation for his bloody print. The jury didn't have those answers. They put the "big city" police department on trial instead to make it easier on them.

As christina has pointed out, lack of an alibi for a specific time period does not make a person guilty. Surely you realize that. As for the "multitude of lies" that Kevin told the police, I think many if not most of those can easily be interpreted as misinterpretations, emotionality, confusion, etc. From what I've read, Kevin's "lies" were not at all inconsistent with the thoughts and feelings of an emotionally traumatized person. And as for the bloody handprint, an adequate explanation has been presented.....adequate for an impartial jury of 12 people. Unanimously.

[oxfordwebster]

As christina has pointed out, lack of an alibi for a specific time period does not make a person guilty. Surely you realize that.Of course I do. It's just that when it's in combination with bloody prints on the murder weapon that haven't been explained away, well...

As for the "multitude of lies" that Kevin told the police, I think many if not most of those can easily be interpreted as misinterpretations, emotionality, confusion, etc. From what I've read, Kevin's "lies" were not at all inconsistent with the thoughts and feelings of an emotionally traumatized person.Poor Kevin. I hope this doesn't traumatize him for much longer. :( (Edit: For my further, less sarcastic thoughts... Kevin sure was able to come up with some detailed timelines, crime scene drawings, and other information for being so distraught.)

And as for the bloody handprint, an adequate explanation has been presented.....adequate for an impartial jury of 12 people. Unanimously.No, and you don't know that. I have a hard time believing that this Ozark, Arkansas jury fully understood the importance of what the testimony on the bloody print held. I also have a hard time believing that they gave it much though, and instead decided to try the police department and not Kevin.

It's already clear that they weren't doing their job from the very first night, when they started stepping out of bounds. I'm not going to believe impartiality for one second with all of these questions. I'm most certainly not going to respect this jury's verdict until they can explain why they made the decision they did. Like I've already said, bringing God into the deliberation room isn't a good enough explanation for the Dirksmeyer family.

[TJEddie]

Let me ask you something, oxford....have you tried and convicted Kevin based upon "evidence" gleened from an internet chat board? Or do you have inside info on this case that hasn't been shared here or in a courtroom?

(And I don't intend for this post to sound snarky. I'm really starting to wonder what your strong certainty in this case is based upon.)

[oxfordwebster]

Let me ask you something, oxford....have you tried and convicted Kevin based upon "evidence" gleened from an internet chat board? Or do you have inside info on this case that hasn't been shared here or in a courtroom?I'm obviously not mad that a jury found him not guilty based on things that weren't presented to a jury, so I don't see how you could think that.

His bloody palm print is my biggest issue, and everything I know is public about it. I'm not going to type my criticisms and observations about this print over and over. I've stated it very clearly multiple times, my opinions backed up by both prosecution *and* defense experts.

(And I don't intend for this post to sound snarky. I'm really starting to wonder what your strong certainty in this case is based upon.)Snarky! People actually use that? Holy crap, I thought I was the only one who knew that word. That's great. :)

[TJEddie]

Ok, fair enough. I think I can understand your feelings on the evidence.

Snarky: One of those words that you immediately know what it means without being told. Snarky....it just sounds right! Ha!

[oxfordwebster]

Ok, fair enough. I think I can understand your feelings on the evidence.

Snarky: One of those words that you immediately know what it means without being told. Snarky....it just sounds right! Ha!It's so true!

I feel like I'm getting too old to keep sitting here going over a lot of this information, so I'm going to go for a while. Since I seem to mostly fight with TJEddie and Christina, I want both of you to have a good night. :o

Oh, and Christina: I'm trying to dig through everything I can to find out more on York for us, starting with the earlier information I have. Where did you see that he was interviewed early that morning? I must be going blind, too. :)

[lorettalockhorn]

Snarky! People actually use that? Holy crap,
I thought I was the only one who knew that word. That's great. :)

Big fan of snarking, snarkiness, and snarkers here!

Okay, back up and tell me about PWhiteside's outburst in court; what did I miss?

Also, I thought that it was interesting that Channel 5 reported that DD hollered at KJ in court, but when I watched/listened to the Channel 4 video it didn't even sound that loud, let alone a "holler". Maybe it had been unenhanced? You could see that there was some sort of near fracas erupting. (I did see the back of Winters' head in that video. Is it true that he hugged JJones at some point?)

[lorettalockhorn]

I wonder, too. Was this "wee hour" interview the one where Trey already had a lawyer rounded up? Sure wish we knew what evidence was used to clear Trey.


I guess that I'm the only one who doesn't find it odd that York had an attorney present when he was interviewed. For that interview to be held in the wee hours of the morning was probably a pretty good indication that the subject matter at hand was serious, even dire. I would have had an attorney with me too. OR called one once the questioning started, in case I felt like I needed advice, for instance about fingerprints or a lie detector test.

Christina, was the attorney with York in court? Did you ever learn his name?

Speaking of lie detectors; wish someone who is in the know could verify that KJ passed one and someone else didn't.

[sololobo]

Yes, because every question we have about this verdict has been sufficiently answered and there is absolutely no chance that guilty people can get off because they have good lawyers. (And hell, looking at the testimony, their defense was laughable.)

Let's just have a witch hunt now and tear apart other peoples' lives because this jury is obviously the most intelligent, unbiased, pristine bunch of people in this great nation. Let's throw York, Duane Dipert, and Jeremy Martin in jail. Let's go throw Jared in jail too, even though we don't know anything about him.

What a joke.

I do not share your opiniom but I do respect it. Have a nice day:)

[sololobo]

I guess that I'm the only one who doesn't find it odd that York had an attorney present when he was interviewed. For that interview to be held in the wee hours of the morning was probably a pretty good indication that the subject matter at hand was serious, even dire. I would have had an attorney with me too. OR called one once the questioning started, in case I felt like I needed advice, for instance about fingerprints or a lie detector test.

Christina, was the attorney with York in court? Did you ever learn his name?

Speaking of lie detectors; wish someone who is in the know could verify that KJ passed one and someone else didn't.

I don't find it odd either. It is always prudent to have an attorney present in such situations.

[christina]

I guess that I'm the only one who doesn't find it odd that York had an attorney present when he was interviewed. For that interview to be held in the wee hours of the morning was probably a pretty good indication that the subject matter at hand was serious, even dire. I would have had an attorney with me too. OR called one once the questioning started, in case I felt like I needed advice, for instance about fingerprints or a lie detector test.

Christina, was the attorney with York in court? Did you ever learn his name?

Speaking of lie detectors; wish someone who is in the know could verify that KJ passed one and someone else didn't.


I was told by someone else he was. I saw a gentleman that did not seem to "fit in" with the witnesses on the bench in the hall.
I am hoping that many things are revealed and rumors validated or dispelled now that the gag order has lifted.

[christina]

It's so true!

I feel like I'm getting too old to keep sitting here going over a lot of this information, so I'm going to go for a while. Since I seem to mostly fight with TJEddie and Christina, I want both of you to have a good night. :o

Oh, and Christina: I'm trying to dig through everything I can to find out more on York for us, starting with the earlier information I have. Where did you see that he was interviewed early that morning? I must be going blind, too. :)

Fight? How about debate?!
A woman in the courtroom told me. I confirmed it with an officer.

[al38]

Speaking of lie detectors; wish someone who is in the know could verify that KJ passed one and someone else didn't.[/QUOTE]

About the lie detectors- Is that info we could get from police with through the FOI? And do any of you know how you can get info thru the FOI?

[hawgustusgloop]

Last night, as I went to bed, this thought hit me.

And I know several of you don't believe that Kevin is innocent.

But if Kevin is innocent, as I believe, then last night was a rough night for the person who really did this.

If Kevin didn't do it, the person who did murder Nona was pulling for Kevin's conviction.

Now that person has to look over their shoulder.

Regardless of where each of us stands on this case, we all want the truth.

Perhaps. Unfortunately, though, if Kevin is truly innocent, and someone else committed the crime, I don't think that killer is going to be too worried. I would think the statement from Gibbons about the file being open for a short time and there not being any evidence leading to anyone else would be quite reassuring to him. It sure made it sound like there wouldn't be much more detective work taking place in the case.

[lorettalockhorn]

Speaking of lie detectors; wish someone who is in the know could verify that KJ passed one and someone else didn't.

About the lie detectors- Is that info we could get from police with through the FOI? And do any of you know how you can get info thru the FOI?[/QUOTE]


Not sure; if Gibbons is keeping the case file open, I doubt that certain information would be available.

One thing that is a matter of public record that I want to know, is if Jordan Harris actually testified to having a sexual encounter with Nona in a music room. I've seen two conflicting reports here from people who were in the courtroom, but nothing in the press.

Anyone? Anyone?

[TJEddie]

I feel like I'm getting too old to keep sitting here going over a lot of this information, so I'm going to go for a while. Since I seem to mostly fight with TJEddie and Christina, I want both of you to have a good night. :o



Aw, oxford, I NEED you! Your posts help me formulate my own thoughts....and hopefully that's something we all do for each other.

(I do want to apologize for "doubleteaming" you when you were busy with christina, though. Fielding challenges from multiple posters is taxing and I try to avoid doing it......I'll try harder!)

[TJEddie]

I guess that I'm the only one who doesn't find it odd that York had an attorney present when he was interviewed. For that interview to be held in the wee hours of the morning was probably a pretty good indication that the subject matter at hand was serious, even dire. I would have had an attorney with me too. OR called one once the questioning started, in case I felt like I needed advice, for instance about fingerprints or a lie detector test.



I can certainly see your point, Loretta, and I can't argue against it. I think what niggles at me about it is that lawyering up doesn't seem to fit with Trey's claims of a rather casual and distant relationship with the victim. Of course, the fact that he was questioned immediately in the wee hours of the morning doesn't seem to fit with claims of a casual and distant relationship either. I just think there was a lot more to the Trey/Nona relationship than Trey is admitting.

Maybe Trey was thoroughly investigated and rightfully dismissed as a suspect by LE.....but given the glaring omissions in other areas of the investigation, I have to wonder. Hopefully the lifting of the gag order will reveal more information.

[lorettalockhorn]

I can certainly see your point, Loretta, and I can't argue against it. I think what niggles at me about it is that lawyering up doesn't seem to fit with Trey's claims of a rather casual and distant relationship with the victim. Of course, the fact that he was questioned immediately in the wee hours of the morning doesn't seem to fit with claims of a casual and distant relationship either. I just think there was a lot more to the Trey/Nona relationship than Trey is admitting.

Maybe Trey was thoroughly investigated and rightfully dismissed as a suspect by LE.....but given the glaring omissions in other areas of the investigation, I have to wonder. Hopefully the lifting of the gag order will reveal more information.

My own attorney is very paternalistic; he would probably read me the riot act, or worse, tell my Dad!!! if I was questioned as a person of interest in a murder investigation without him present.

[hawgustusgloop]

My own attorney is very paternalistic; he would probably read me the riot act, or worse, tell my Dad!!! if I was questioned as a person of interest in a murder investigation without him present.

I don't know anything about his family, but if he has any attorneys in his family, then there is a darn good chance he would have been quickly advised to have an attorney with him during an interrogation in a murder investigation even if he weren't as closely connected with the victim.

[Riviera]

FYI 22 posts on this one page have been deleted.

I suggest everyone get back on topic otherwise this thread will be locked for Freshwaters review.

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't know anything about his family, but if he has any attorneys in his family, then there is a darn good chance he would have been quickly advised to have an attorney with him during an interrogation in a murder investigation even if he weren't as closely connected with the victim.

That's a good point. I find Yorks in Ashdown and attorneys in Ashdown, but so far, no attorneys named York!

[TJEddie]

Ok....I see the words "person of interest" and "interogation" have been used to describe Trey's interview. Under those conditions, I fully agree that an attorney is in order. But that kind of makes my point.....Trey's interview was apparently more than just "we're talking to all of Nona's friends to gather information."

[lorettalockhorn]

Ok....I see the words "person of interest" and "interogation" have been used to describe Trey's interview. Under those conditions, I fully agree that an attorney is in order. But that kind of makes my point.....Trey's interview was apparently more than just "we're talking to all of Nona's friends to gather information."

Of course, I don't know if he was a suspect or person of interest at that point, but it wouldn't surprise me if KJ didn't give his name to LE right away. (BTW, does anyone know if his story about Nona having kneed York in the groin is true?) Anyway, I would think that the tenor of the interview would have been set soon enough; for instance if they were asking what his schedule had been like that day, he might have had the sense that they were looking at his alibi rather than the timeline of Nona's death and wisely called an attorney. And like Hawg said, he might have one in the family.

[TJEddie]

Of course, I don't know if he was a suspect or person of interest at that point, but it wouldn't surprise me if KJ didn't give his name to LE right away. (BTW, does anyone know if his story about Nona having kneed York in the groin is true?) Anyway, I would think that the tenor of the interview would have been set soon enough; for instance if they were asking what his schedule had been like that day, he might have had the sense that they were looking at his alibi rather than the timeline of Nona's death and wisely called an attorney. And like Hawg said, he might have one in the family.

Ok. IF they got Trey's name from Kevin, I would put less weight on him being treated as a suspect so early on. I had jumped to the conclusion that LE had actual evidence that would lead them to treat him as a suspect. Your suggestion puts it in a whole new light. Thanks.

As for the knee to the groin story.....the story I read didn't name the person involved. Nona reportedly described him as a "creepy" person and the incident reportedly happened in his dorm room......so it does sound like Trey would be a good guess. Maybe Kevin revealed that incident to LE in his interview and it was enough to send them flying down to Ashdown.

(But I'm still wondering about Zack's impression that Nona & Trey were dating, Brandy Bean's observations, and those 83 text messages in December. All things considered, I still doubt Trey's honesty in describing their relationship.)

[lorettalockhorn]

Ok. IF they got Trey's name from Kevin, I would put less weight on him being treated as a suspect so early on. I had jumped to the conclusion that LE had actual evidence that would lead them to treat him as a suspect. Your suggestion puts it in a whole new light. Thanks.

As for the knee to the groin story.....the story I read didn't name the person involved. Nona reportedly described him as a "creepy" person and the incident reportedly happened in his dorm room......so it does sound like Trey would be a good guess. Maybe Kevin revealed that incident to LE in his interview and it was enough to send them flying down to Ashdown.

(But I'm still wondering about Zack's impression that Nona & Trey were dating, Brandy Bean's observations, and those 83 text messages in December. All things considered, I still doubt Trey's honesty in describing their relationship.)

hmmm I probably assumed that the Man With the Painful Groin was York; but I was doing some reading on Jordan Harris earlier and he did also testify that Nona had been in his room. I can't help but wonder if all of these people just see their own relationships in a completely different light than everyone else does? Didn't York testify that Nona had initiated communications with him, but that he had always answered her? Wouldn't that be verifiable? KJ could have sicced LE on York simply by saying it was York because he was honked off about the text message(s).

Speaking of Bean, don't you wonder if another neighbor ever saw anything that caused them concern? It's a pretty small enclave, if there were any other knock down drag outs, surely there would have been witnesses. Was Bean the only one home the day that Mr. X was pounding on Nona's door?

[jonikay]

IIRC, during Trey's testimony, he confirmed the fact that he texted Nona on December 16th around 930 or 1000, saying he had heard some rumors and wondered if she was alright. Was this before or after the interview conducted during the "wee morning hours," which I would consider earlier than even 900.

BTW, it was Kevin in his interview who stated that Nona had kicked some guy in the groin and a few guys here or there had harassed her, but he didn't seem to be worried about it. The only guy I heard him mention as far as any relationship outside of what Kevin classified as friends, was Jordan Harris, the guy from Springdale. I know he never mentioned Trey York during the interrogation, that I can recall.

[TJEddie]

Stop it, Loretta....you're making me think too hard at 1am!! Hahaha! And yes, I have wondered about Nona's other neighbors....we used to all be nosy as hell when I was in college. Was she the only one keeping up???

Jonikay, you bring up an excellent point....I believe Trey's text to Nona was sent at 9 something on the morning of the 16th. That would argue against the "wee hour" interview. (Although I still consider anything before noon to be the crack of dawn!! Ha!)

I'm off to bed, girls......tomorrow is another day.....

[lorettalockhorn]

IIRC, during Trey's testimony, he confirmed the fact that he texted Nona on December 16th around 930 or 1000, saying he had heard some rumors and wondered if she was alright. Was this before or after the interview conducted during the "wee morning hours," which I would consider earlier than even 900.

BTW, it was Kevin in his interview who stated that Nona had kicked some guy in the groin and a few guys here or there had harassed her, but he didn't seem to be worried about it. The only guy I heard him mention as far as any relationship outside of what Kevin classified as friends, was Jordan Harris, the guy from Springdale. I know he never mentioned Trey York during the interrogation, that I can recall.

Thanks for the reminder. I believe that I read that on the 16th, he texted Nona at 9:18 and finally talked to Zach Walker between 10-11am, when he told Walker that he knew that Nona was dead. So maybe the interview took place between 9:18 and when he actually talked to ZW?

There's probably a lot of information in the interview tapes that I don't know about!

[sololobo]

"In previous testimony, James “Trey” York, an Arkansas Tech University with whom DIRKSMEYER went on “a date,” said he spilled a Coke in his car on the morning of Dec. 15 after a trip to Paradise Donuts."

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15436&Search=dirksmeyer

An old wive's tale claims Coke removes blood stains from carpet and upholstery. I don't know if this is accurate but would someone try it not knowing if it worked or not? Could this little detail volunteered by Trey in his alibi actually have happened later than he said and designed to explain Coke stains in his car? Probably nothing to this but it is somewhat interesting:)

[sololobo]

Restricted and limited budget constraints can sometimes make an organization appear to be less than competent. Looking back, we are puzzled why certain things weren't done. The answer is lack of budgeted money. Our PD has a budget they must adhere to and they can't afford to run an investigation like you see on CSI. Recovering and analysing fingerprints and DNA cost money, a lot of money. Due to budget restraints, perhaps our PD is forced to focus on one suspect just to stay in budget. This would not be their fault, it is ours. The money comes from us. If we want a top notch investigation, we must pay for it. We can't give an investigator a box of cotton swabs and a magnifying glass and expect them to solve a complicated murder case. Russellville is growing and more violent crimes are occuring. Perhaps its time to allocate more money to our PD.

[al38]

Restricted and limited budget constraints can sometimes make an organization appear to be less than competent. Looking back, we are puzzled why certain things weren't done. The answer is lack of budgeted money. Our PD has a budget they must adhere to and they can't afford to run an investigation like you see on CSI. Recovering and analysing fingerprints and DNA cost money, a lot of money. Due to budget restraints, perhaps our PD is forced to focus on one suspect just to stay in budget. This would not be their fault, it is ours. The money comes from us. If we want a top notch investigation, we must pay for it. We can't give an investigator a box of cotton swabs and a magnifying glass and expect them to solve a complicated murder case. Russellville is growing and more violent crimes are occuring. Perhaps its time to allocate more money to our PD.

Well, you would think they would have access to luminol. Back 15 or 20 years ago, there was a very violent murder of a girl in Atkins. I don't remember alot about it, but I do remember they used luminol and found where there had been a lot of blood that had been cleaned up. If they had used luminol on the verhicles of the the cars of the people she had been involed with, it may have made the jury's decision easier. I would think that the RPD would have access to luminol.

[christina]

About the lie detectors- Is that info we could get from police with through the FOI? And do any of you know how you can get info thru the FOI?


Not sure; if Gibbons is keeping the case file open, I doubt that certain information would be available.

One thing that is a matter of public record that I want to know, is if Jordan Harris actually testified to having a sexual encounter with Nona in a music room. I've seen two conflicting reports here from people who were in the courtroom, but nothing in the press.

Anyone? Anyone?[/QUOTE]

An FOI request costs nothing, all they can say is yes or no.

I guess being the wife of a Tech prof makes you curious? I was one of the ones that thought I heard that. The only two ways I know of to get that information is to ask him directly or pay for a copy of the court transcript.

[christina]

FYI 22 posts on this one page have been deleted.

I suggest everyone get back on topic otherwise this thread will be locked for Freshwaters review.

I don't understand. What has been deleted? Can you give an example of what the moderator considers deleteworthy?

[christina]

Of course, I don't know if he was a suspect or person of interest at that point, but it wouldn't surprise me if KJ didn't give his name to LE right away. (BTW, does anyone know if his story about Nona having kneed York in the groin is true?) Anyway, I would think that the tenor of the interview would have been set soon enough; for instance if they were asking what his schedule had been like that day, he might have had the sense that they were looking at his alibi rather than the timeline of Nona's death and wisely called an attorney. And like Hawg said, he might have one in the family.

In his interview immediately following the discovery of Nona's body, Jones did not give police York's name. He did give several other names when asked by police who Nona's friends were. (Remember, the police did not power up Nona's cell phone to find York's 11:05 text "call me" until the 19th.) My guess would be that when they called one of her friends, they led them to York as having dated her recently.
Jones told police in the same interview, when asked if Nona had trouble with anyone, about the story of her kneeing a boy she had a class with when he came over to the apartment and made a move on her. It was confirmed for me when I saw Nona's mom turn to the woman next to her, nod her head and say something like that's true.

[christina]

Ok. IF they got Trey's name from Kevin, I would put less weight on him being treated as a suspect so early on. I had jumped to the conclusion that LE had actual evidence that would lead them to treat him as a suspect. Your suggestion puts it in a whole new light. Thanks.

As for the knee to the groin story.....the story I read didn't name the person involved. Nona reportedly described him as a "creepy" person and the incident reportedly happened in his dorm room......so it does sound like Trey would be a good guess. Maybe Kevin revealed that incident to LE in his interview and it was enough to send them flying down to Ashdown.

(But I'm still wondering about Zack's impression that Nona & Trey were dating, Brandy Bean's observations, and those 83 text messages in December. All things considered, I still doubt Trey's honesty in describing their relationship.)

This information coupled with York's demeanor on the witness stand all led me to think he was not telling the whole truth. Also remember, the lawyers had a sidebar just previous to York taking the stand for the prosecution. That was when I overheard one of the prosecution lawyers use the term "taking the fifth".

[christina]

IIRC, during Trey's testimony, he confirmed the fact that he texted Nona on December 16th around 930 or 1000, saying he had heard some rumors and wondered if she was alright. Was this before or after the interview conducted during the "wee morning hours," which I would consider earlier than even 900.

BTW, it was Kevin in his interview who stated that Nona had kicked some guy in the groin and a few guys here or there had harassed her, but he didn't seem to be worried about it. The only guy I heard him mention as far as any relationship outside of what Kevin classified as friends, was Jordan Harris, the guy from Springdale. I know he never mentioned Trey York during the interrogation, that I can recall.

Yes he testified to that text and his cell phones confirmed it. But during cross examination and when the defense put the other biology lab partner on the stand, it came out he was called the night of the 15th and told she was "found in a pool of blood". Those are the calls where he said he didn't recognize the number so he gave a friend his cell and asked them to call it back. And the interview with police took place prior to the text on the 16th.
It just dawned on me, because of the lab partner calling, York knew Nona had been found. He knew then the police would be calling, thus lining up a lawyer(sorry Loretta, but I neither have a lawyer, nor could probably get one late at night).

[christina]

"In previous testimony, James “Trey” York, an Arkansas Tech University with whom DIRKSMEYER went on “a date,” said he spilled a Coke in his car on the morning of Dec. 15 after a trip to Paradise Donuts."

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15436&Search=dirksmeyer

An old wive's tale claims Coke removes blood stains from carpet and upholstery. I don't know if this is accurate but would someone try it not knowing if it worked or not? Could this little detail volunteered by Trey in his alibi actually have happened later than he said and designed to explain Coke stains in his car? Probably nothing to this but it is somewhat interesting:)

And also it would explain the tipped over table lamp with coke spilled on the table and pooled on the floor below it. When asked about the coke spill during cross examination, he waffled as to exactly where and how the coke spilled in the car. He was as squirrly as they come on the witness stand. I turned to the people around me at the trial and they all agreed.

[lorettalockhorn]

Not sure; if Gibbons is keeping the case file open, I doubt that certain information would be available.

One thing that is a matter of public record that I want to know, is if Jordan Harris actually testified to having a sexual encounter with Nona in a music room. I've seen two conflicting reports here from people who were in the courtroom, but nothing in the press.

Anyone? Anyone?

An FOI request costs nothing, all they can say is yes or no.

I guess being the wife of a Tech prof makes you curious? I was one of the ones that thought I heard that. The only two ways I know of to get that information is to ask him directly or pay for a copy of the court transcript.[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lorettalockhorn
About the lie detectors- Is that info we could get from police with through the FOI? And do any of you know how you can get info thru the FOI?



I don't know how it happened, but that question was not asked by me; it was asked by al38. Wonder what you did when you were quoting/editing to attribute that to me.

I wish that you wouldn't put words into my mouth, so to speak.

I did answer that I doubt that information in an open case would be available through a FOI request.

[lorettalockhorn]

Yes he testified to that text and his cell phones confirmed it. But during cross examination and when the defense put the other biology lab partner on the stand, it came out he was called the night of the 15th and told she was "found in a pool of blood". Those are the calls where he said he didn't recognize the number so he gave a friend his cell and asked them to call it back. And the interview with police took place prior to the text on the 16th.
It just dawned on me, because of the lab partner calling, York knew Nona had been found. He knew then the police would be calling, thus lining up a lawyer(sorry Loretta, but I neither have a lawyer, nor could probably get one late at night).

HUH? Why would you apologize to me? If you have been married, had children, owned property and don't have an attorney, it's your family that you should be apologizing to in case you die intestate. There are scads of reasons to have an attorney.

[christina]

An FOI request costs nothing, all they can say is yes or no.

I guess being the wife of a Tech prof makes you curious? I was one of the ones that thought I heard that. The only two ways I know of to get that information is to ask him directly or pay for a copy of the court transcript.

I don't know how it happened, but that question was not asked by me; it was asked by al38. Wonder what you did when you were quoting/editing to attribute that to me.

I wish that you wouldn't put words into my mouth, so to speak.

I did answer that I doubt that information in an open case would be available through a FOI request.[/QUOTE]

I think the site is having problems. I hit the button I always have to reply to a specific post, but as I look at them now, they did not come up that way.

And Loretta- You and I would never put words in each other's mouths, we seem to be able to use enough of our own :)

[christina]

HUH? Why would you apologize to me? If you have been married, had children, owned property and don't have an attorney, it's your family that you should be apologizing to in case you die intestate. There are scads of reasons to have an attorney.

Being responsible by having a will, using attorneys at proper times such as business or real estate transactions-that is one thing I have down. But for a 19 year old college boy being asked to talk to police about another college student- showing up with an attorney is supect. He is the only college student who did. Jones was locked in a room with police being interviewed for 4 hours and only asked for Nona's mom or his mom.

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't know how it happened, but that question was not asked by me; it was asked by al38. Wonder what you did when you were quoting/editing to attribute that to me.

I wish that you wouldn't put words into my mouth, so to speak.

I did answer that I doubt that information in an open case would be available through a FOI request.

I think the site is having problems. I hit the button I always have to reply to a specific post, but as I look at them now, they did not come up that way.

And Loretta- You and I would never put words in each other's mouths, we seem to be able to use enough of our own :)[/QUOTE]

You have put words into my mouth (as did other now missing posters) on more than one occasion; as well as having called me less than honest. Please stop. I would try not do that to you; I'm not that invested in the case.

[sololobo]

Would Nona let Trey into her apartment? The greeting card found on the floor by the body puzzles me. Was it mail that arrived that morning? Did Nona go outside her apartment to get her mail and did someone force their way in at this oppurtunity? Was she attacked while holding the mail and dropped it on the floor as a result? Where was her mailbox and when does mail arrive at her apartment complex?

[lorettalockhorn]

Being responsible by having a will, using attorneys at proper times such as business or real estate transactions-that is one thing I have down. But for a 19 year old college boy being asked to talk to police about another college student- showing up with an attorney is supect. He is the only college student who did. Jones was locked in a room with police being interviewed for 4 hours and only asked for Nona's mom or his mom.

Considering what a mama's boy KJ and RW seem to be, maybe York is the same. Maybe his parents insisted that he have an attorney present. I find it very hard to believe that someone as savvy as you are would allow yourself to be questioned by police in the "wee hours of the morning" (can anyone verify that?) without an attorney.

And surely by now, KJ realizes after watching all that L&O, that he would not have been allowed to have his mother with him during questioning.

Are people really locked into interview rooms? Yikes, seems like that would minimally be against the fire code.

[christina]

I think the site is having problems. I hit the button I always have to reply to a specific post, but as I look at them now, they did not come up that way.

And Loretta- You and I would never put words in each other's mouths, we seem to be able to use enough of our own :)

You have put words into my mouth (as did other now missing posters) on more than one occasion; as well as having called me less than honest. Please stop. I would try not do that to you; I'm not that invested in the case.[/QUOTE]

I am sorry you interpret it that way. I can only tell you my intent and as I have explained to you before, I have not intended to put words in your mouth. I ask questions and sometimes make assumptions based on phrasing in posts. I am sorry if you interpretted something I said as calling you less than hones, again, that was not my intent. And I am not a missing poster and have every intention of remaining a poster.
Unlike you, I am that invested in this case now that I sat through the entire trial, saw Jones found innocent, have serious questions about York and know he is still attending a college where I have children attending.

[oxfordwebster]

I sat through the entire trial, saw Jones found innocent, have serious questions about York and know he is still attending a college where I have children attending.I think I'd answer some of the questions that have been raised about Jones before I started worrying about York, such as my points about the bloody print and his lack of alibi.

I think you're overreacting a bit much and ignoring some hard-to-swallow facts about Jones.

[christina]

Would Nona let Trey into her apartment? The greeting card found on the floor by the body puzzles me. Was it mail that arrived that morning? Did Nona go outside her apartment to get her mail and did someone force their way in at this oppurtunity? Was she attacked while holding the mail and dropped it on the floor as a result? Where was her mailbox and when does mail arrive at her apartment complex?

We were told the card was a greeting card from Nona's mother to her. It was found on the floor.
Janice Jones testified and we heard her on the 911 tape, she looked for something with an address on it for the purpose of telling the 911 operator. She found mail, specifically a bank statement, on a table somewhere. The address on it was the Dipert's address on Skyline.

[christina]

I think I'd answer some of the questions that have been raised about Jones before I started worrying about York, such as my points about the bloody print and his lack of alibi.

I think you're overreacting a bit much and ignoring some hard-to-swallow facts about Jones.

Compare York's dna with that found in the apartment, give proof of his alibi(witnesses or gas statement) and I will be well on the way to dropping York.
The bloody print was explained ad nauseum- agreed upon by all experts- that it is Nona's blood and it is Jones palm print on the light bulb next to the body. Not agreed upon by experts-when the placement of the palm print happenned, whether blood from the head wound would have clots, whether the print showed clots, when the blood would have been dry by, the definition of "appeared tacky", whether the prints on the pole closet to the lamp base(murder weapon) were sutiable for comparison or not(neither print was Jones), whether is was possible for Jones to touch the light bulb when he found the body due to possitioning and what the actual time of death was.

Alibi- agreed, Jones has no one that saw him from 10:20 til 11:30.

[sololobo]

We were told the card was a greeting card from Nona's mother to her. It was found on the floor.
Janice Jones testified and we heard her on the 911 tape, she looked for something with an address on it for the purpose of telling the 911 operator. She found mail, specifically a bank statement, on a table somewhere. The address on it was the Dipert's address on Skyline.

It was probably not mailed. Nona either received it when she picked up her mail at her parents or her parents gave it to her when they brought her mail to her at some earlier date. So much for that theory:)

[oxfordwebster]

Compare York's dna with that found in the apartment, give proof of his alibi(witnesses or gas statement) and I will be well on the way to dropping York.That seems like a funny way to work. I would expect that you wouldn't want to drop York because there was evidence that he was involved in the murder, yet the only person with a bloody print is Kevin. We know it isn't York's, since he gave his prints, isn't that what you said before?

The bloody print was explained ad nauseum- agreed upon by all experts- that it is Nona's blood and it is Jones palm print on the light bulb next to the body. Not agreed upon by experts-when the placement of the palm print happenned, whether blood from the head wound would have clots, whether the print showed clots, when the blood would have been dry by, the definition of "appeared tacky", whether the prints on the pole closet to the lamp base(murder weapon) were sutiable for comparison or not(neither print was Jones), whether is was possible for Jones to touch the light bulb when he found the body due to possitioning and what the actual time of death was.Oh, we already know that the print showed no clots according to prosecution testimony. Did the defense try to dispute this and point out the coagulation evidence? I must have missed that.

The "tacky" controversy was rendered moot early on, when Bacon clarified exactly what he meant by the phrase and testified that the print looked the same five days later. It was a dry print, unless you want to call Bacon a liar. If that is the case, then I do hope you encourage perjury charges to set that straight.

We know it was "possible" for Jones to touch the lamp when he found her. What I find unbelievable is that every person--Ryan, Kevin, and Kevin's mother--claimed he did not touch it. I'm not going to retype the rest of my thoughts on this subject, as I've done it multiple times and received no answers.

As for actual time of death, I bet we can get a pretty good idea by looking at Kevin's lack of an alibi and the palm print evidence that even had defense expert's unwillingly confirming that there would have been coagulation in the blood by the time Kevin found her.

You also claimed that Kilbourne didn't contradict any of Morrison's testimony, even though he did--Morrison said that blood required air to clot, while Kilbourne testified that to not be true. To be fair, I doubt Morrison had much of a medical background. His "on the street" experience isn't exactly empirical research.

Oh, and one other thing--the latent prints on the lamp that you claim to not be from Jones? There wasn't any testimony that could make that claim, considering that it was conflicting on whether you could actually compare them to anybody in the first place.

Alibi- agreed, Jones has no one that saw him from 10:20 til 11:30.And even that is dubious. The two contractors gave conflicting times on when they left the house, and nobody *but* grandma saw him at 11:30, which he somehow forgot to mention to the police when giving his detailed timelines. Didn't grandma even give conflicting times? I need to look that up. She might have stuck with 11:30, but I could have sworn I read something about that.

[LurkerNoMore]

11:05 Give me a call please - Text from Trey

Nona was murdered.

12:58 Nevermind - Text from Trey

This event was book-ended by texts from Trey. Not to mention the later text message he sent checking on her after she was already murdered. Just odd, odd, odd.

- Spilled coke? in his car, had to clean it up.
- Wore wristbands, drove silver Mustang, same as the individual who was beating on Nona's door and drove off in a silver Mustang.
- Felt like she was using him.
- Wasn't sexual, only kissed, according to Trey. If this were true, did he want more than only a kiss? Did he bring the condom expecting to get more, she says no...

So Trey goes by a gas station, right? I wonder if they sell condoms in the bathroom of that gas station. Do we know which gas station? Can someone go by and look?

I still believe the condom wrapper was a mistake, not a plant.

IMO.

[lorettalockhorn]

You have put words into my mouth (as did other now missing posters) on more than one occasion; as well as having called me less than honest. Please stop. I would try not do that to you; I'm not that invested in the case.

I am sorry you interpret it that way. I can only tell you my intent and as I have explained to you before, I have not intended to put words in your mouth. I ask questions and sometimes make assumptions based on phrasing in posts. I am sorry if you interpretted something I said as calling you less than hones, again, that was not my intent. And I am not a missing poster and have every intention of remaining a poster.
Unlike you, I am that invested in this case now that I sat through the entire trial, saw Jones found innocent, have serious questions about York and know he is still attending a college where I have children attending.[/QUOTE]

This is the quote where you "with all due respect" said that I am less than honest. You know, when I have posted here, I have tried to either made it clear that I was stating my opinion, or posted a link, or cited a source. And when I have posted rumors, I have labelled them as rumors. Your sources are very nebulous with regard to testimonies that were contradicted by other posters, including the fact that York had an attorney present that was pointed out by some officer who apprently wasn't wearing an ID and who now works elsewhere, and some woman sitting next to you. When people here try to nail down what was indeed testified to, for instance that JH and Nona had a tryst in a music room, you deflect and say that maybe you heard it wrong, but that it was verified by your neighbor in court. When asked about other matters that weren't heard by others in the courtroom and not reported by the media, you say that you must have been in the bathroom. Yet you insist that you didn't miss a word of testimony.

There is no due respect when calling another poster on their honesty. But I think that many of us would like to see some of what may be considered bias on your part cleared up with facts, or at least acknowledged that some things could have been misinterpreted.


I think someone else said it here- a lie is intentional, what matters is what Kevin's definiton is.
You are correct, I never heard this. It was not said by Kevin as I watched his voluntary interview in its entirety.
Again, correct, I had my list of what would convince of his innocence, and my list was satisfied by that point. Also remember however, I told you that I believed he was guilty the minute I heard about the murder but tried to keep an open mind in case I was called for jury duty.
Like the police, I do think York is a suspect in this crime.
Touche'
Loretta, with all due respect, I do not think you are being honest here. Your posts all along have spoken of your belief of his guilt. You were one of the first to challenge anyone who questioned his guilt and your posts since the verdict seem to confirm that belief as well.

[oxfordwebster]

11:05 Give me a call please - Text from Trey

Nona was murdered.

12:58 Nevermind - Text from Trey

This event was book-ended by texts from Trey. Not to mention the later text message he sent checking on her after she was already murdered. Just odd, odd, odd.

- Spilled coke? in his car, had to clean it up.
- Wore wristbands, drove silver Mustang, same as the individual who was beating on Nona's door and drove off in a silver Mustang.
- Felt like she was using him.
- Wasn't sexual, only kissed, according to Trey. If this were true, did he want more than only a kiss? Did he bring the condom expecting to get more, she says no...

So Trey goes by a gas station, right? I wonder if they sell condoms in the bathroom of that gas station. Do we know which gas station? Can someone go by and look?

I still believe the condom wrapper was a mistake, not a plant.

IMO.Trey was getting ready for tests and leaving town. It sounds like it hit the point where it didn't matter if Nona called because he didn't have enough time.

We don't know who the neighbor identified at the apartment. Nobody else saw this incident, and we don't know how the defense team led her to say what she did when they originally talked to her. It seemed like a lot of detail for a minute-viewing that she had to remember a month or so later.

Spilled coke! What a tragedy.

It's completely unbelievable for a smart, not the most socially-skilled guy to feel like they are being used for school work. It never, ever happens.

Did he bring the condom expecting more? I don't know. Let's see what signs of Nona had of sexual assault, and if she had any signs of putting up a struggle against someone trying to rape her. Oh, wait...

Face it, York had nothing to do with it and there was a convenient finger to point his way. If the defense cares to show some evidence that he did it, I'd love to see it.

Right now, Kevin doesn't have an alibi, and his bloody palm print has not been proven to be placed when he found her--in fact, all of the testimony points to it being placed when she was killed, no matter how you choose to ignore certain key points.

[Brown hound]

[Nope.

I was curious as to why you continually question the jury's verdict when you were not actually sitting in the courtroom hearing the evidence as it was presented. Maybe if you would have had no prior knowledge of this case you would not be so negative about their outcome. They did the best that they could with the information that they had. Sometimes, it seems that you are questioning the intelligence of the jury as a whole, and that is not fair. The people of Ozark did not ask for this case, they were forced to take it. Perhaps, if Pope county wouldn't have tried this case in workplaces, restaurants, and on the back of peoples cars, the case could have been tried there. Who would you have blamed had this been tried in Pope county and the outcome was the same? Reasonable doubt is reasonable doubt.

[oxfordwebster]

I was curious as to why you continually question the jury's verdict when you were not actually sitting in the courtroom hearing the evidence as it was presented.You are welcome to read my concerns and correct things that I am wrong about. Please do, because I've been waiting for someone to do that.

[lorettalockhorn]

11:05 Give me a call please - Text from Trey

Nona was murdered.

12:58 Nevermind - Text from Trey

This event was book-ended by texts from Trey. Not to mention the later text message he sent checking on her after she was already murdered. Just odd, odd, odd.

- Spilled coke? in his car, had to clean it up.
- Wore wristbands, drove silver Mustang, same as the individual who was beating on Nona's door and drove off in a silver Mustang.
- Felt like she was using him.
- Wasn't sexual, only kissed, according to Trey. If this were true, did he want more than only a kiss? Did he bring the condom expecting to get more, she says no...

So Trey goes by a gas station, right? I wonder if they sell condoms in the bathroom of that gas station. Do we know which gas station? Can someone go by and look?

I still believe the condom wrapper was a mistake, not a plant.

IMO.

I think for the purposes of considering York, it's going to be difficult since we have so little information available, as opposed to the amount of information that we had re: KJ.

I believe that the station was the Exxon near I-40. He stated that he used a credit card but didn't get a receipt. (Boy, does that sound familiar at my house!) The purchase should be verifiable on the credit card statement. With regard to the condom wrapper, I just still cannot imagine how the killer would have taken time to do whatever staging was done and miss the wrapper in plain sight, if it was his own.

Someone mentioned earlier that Coke will clean blood. Can't believe that Patricia Cornwell has never used that as a way that a suspect would try to destroy evidence! I honestly have never read that before. You do have to wonder if LE verified that it was indeed Coke that was spilled in the car with Luminol, although the ME testified that there would have been little blood on the murderer.

[LurkerNoMore]

Trey was getting ready for tests and leaving town. It sounds like it hit the point where it didn't matter if Nona called because he didn't have enough time.

We don't know who the neighbor identified at the apartment. Nobody else saw this incident, and we don't know how the defense team led her to say what she did when they originally talked to her. It seemed like a lot of detail for a minute-viewing that she had to remember a month or so later.

Spilled coke! What a tragedy.

It's completely unbelievable for a smart, not the most socially-skilled guy to feel like they are being used for school work. It never, ever happens.

Did he bring the condom expecting more? I don't know. Let's see what signs of Nona had of sexual assault, and if she had any signs of putting up a struggle against someone trying to rape her. Oh, wait...

Face it, York had nothing to do with it and there was a convenient finger to point his way. If the defense cares to show some evidence that he did it, I'd love to see it.

Right now, Kevin doesn't have an alibi, and his bloody palm print has not been proven to be placed when he found her--in fact, all of the testimony points to it being placed when she was killed, no matter how you choose to ignore certain key points.

I respect your strong feelings and agree to disagree with you.

I'm with Christina on this one. But unfortunately we may never know if that was Trey's DNA on the condom wrapper.

Trey or not Trey, whose DNA was it? I think that is crucial to the truth, no matter who you think did this. It places someone else there at or around the time of the murder.

[oxfordwebster]

Trey or not Trey, who's DNA was it? I think that is crucial to the truth, no matter who you think did this. It places someone else there at or around the time of the murder.Please tell me how you know when the condom wrapper appeared in Nona's apartment.

[LurkerNoMore]

Please tell me how you know when the condom wrapper appeared in Nona's apartment.

I don't know, and there's no way for us to know for sure unless we know who brought it, but one would reasonably assume it was recent. Even if it had been there a couple of days, wouldn't it still be important to know who was there and who she had contact with in the days leading up to her murder?

I just can't believe she'd leave a condom wrapper out for days. Logic, to me, says that day.

[lorettalockhorn]

Slightly OT: Was it ever determined that the clothes found in Nona's apartment that day were the clothes that she wore to her test that morning? I rembember that the defense was skeptical that a witness would remember her green sweater but not his own grade.

I just wonder if someone helped KJ tidy up the scene by taking away her morning of the 15th clothes and leaving behind clothes from the hamper, if that would explain why her panties showed the evidence that she and KJ had intercourse on the 13th. Rumor has it that RW helped KJ with the scene after the murder. I guess that could explain PWhiteside's emotional investment in the case and outburst in court. Does Ryan have an alibi? Was he ever a suspect or person of interest?

It's interesting that folks think that we here should not question the jury's verdict and drop all suspicion of KJ. Yet people outside this board are questioning the case as well.

[lorettalockhorn]

Trey or not Trey, whose DNA was it? I think that is crucial to the truth, no matter who you think did this. It places someone else there at or around the time of the murder.

The wrapper could have come out of someone's trash for all we know. (Which is exactly where I think it did come from at this point.)

[oxfordwebster]

I don't know, and there's no way for us to know for sure unless we know who brought it, but one would reasonably assume it was recent. Even if it had been there a couple of days, wouldn't it still be important to know who was there and who she had contact with in the days leading up to her murder?

I just can't believe she'd leave a condom wrapper out for days. Logic, to me, says that day.Sure. But we don't know whether it had been there the entire time or if it came from elsewhere. I also don't think she would leave a condom wrapper out, especially with Kevin back in town.

Right now, we don't have evidence that the condom was even used with Nona. No condom was found, there were no signs of a sexual assault, and depending on the type of condom, I never read about any traces of chemicals found inside of her that could be traced to a condom.

There's a lot that I wish I knew about the wrapper, I'll give you that. But it doesn't help explain Kevin's lack of alibi and his bloody print, made in fresh blood with no signs of coagulation.

[christina]

Considering what a mama's boy KJ and RW seem to be, maybe York is the same. Maybe his parents insisted that he have an attorney present. I find it very hard to believe that someone as savvy as you are would allow yourself to be questioned by police in the "wee hours of the morning" (can anyone verify that?) without an attorney.

And surely by now, KJ realizes after watching all that L&O, that he would not have been allowed to have his mother with him during questioning.
Are people really locked into interview rooms? Yikes, seems like that would minimally be against the fire code.

What would verify that for you? After hearing it in the courtroom peanut gallery, I asked and got it confirmed by an officer.

The rumor about Jones saying he "watched a lot of Law and Order" was dispelled during the trial. The officer that he said that to testified that when he asked Jones to go with another officer back to the police station that night, he informed Jones that it was policy to be patted down prior to riding in a squad car. To which Jones said, "yeah I know, I've watched Law and Order".

On the voluntary interview tape(why did the prosecution not show the interrogation of Jones?) Jones, while alone, went to the door to ask an officer something. When he tried the door it was locked so he knocked.

[nobody]

Are there visuals anywhere online? The photos from the news seem poor. It would be nice to just see a basic layout of the apartment - to know how far away the kitchen and other rooms were from the attack. I would like to be able to speculate atleast what direction she was possibly facing - towards which room or door.

[Brown hound]

][/QUOTE]I still believe the condom wrapper was a mistake, not a plant.[/QUOTE]

The condom wrapper is the key. We know that KJ and Nona did not use condoms. KJ probably didn't just carry around a condom wrapper that he had found with someone else's fingerprints/DNA on it just to plant at a murder scene in the future, in case he lost his temper and wanted to murder someone and cover his trail. That being said, he would have had to leave the apartment, covered in blood, and go foraging through trash for a condom wrapper to plant. That would take time, and time he does not have.

[christina]

I am sorry you interpret it that way. I can only tell you my intent and as I have explained to you before, I have not intended to put words in your mouth. I ask questions and sometimes make assumptions based on phrasing in posts. I am sorry if you interpretted something I said as calling you less than hones, again, that was not my intent. And I am not a missing poster and have every intention of remaining a poster.
Unlike you, I am that invested in this case now that I sat through the entire trial, saw Jones found innocent, have serious questions about York and know he is still attending a college where I have children attending.

This is the quote where you "with all due respect" said that I am less than honest. You know, when I have posted here, I have tried to either made it clear that I was stating my opinion, or posted a link, or cited a source. And when I have posted rumors, I have labelled them as rumors. Your sources are very nebulous with regard to testimonies that were contradicted by other posters, including the fact that York had an attorney present that was pointed out by some officer who apprently wasn't wearing an ID and who now works elsewhere, and some woman sitting next to you. When people here try to nail down what was indeed testified to, for instance that JH and Nona had a tryst in a music room, you deflect and say that maybe you heard it wrong, but that it was verified by your neighbor in court. When asked about other matters that weren't heard by others in the courtroom and not reported by the media, you say that you must have been in the bathroom. Yet you insist that you didn't miss a word of testimony.

There is no due respect when calling another poster on their honesty. But I think that many of us would like to see some of what may be considered bias on your part cleared up with facts, or at least acknowledged that some things could have been misinterpreted.[/QUOTE]

Peace Loretta- we have both stated we do not intend to offend, what say you that from here on out we will always assume that about each other's comments/posts?

[lorettalockhorn]

Sure. But we don't know whether it had been there the entire time or if it came from elsewhere. I also don't think she would leave a condom wrapper out, especially with Kevin back in town.

Right now, we don't have evidence that the condom was even used with Nona. No condom was found, there were no signs of a sexual assault, and depending on the type of condom, I never read about any traces of chemicals found inside of her that could be traced to a condom.

There's a lot that I wish I knew about the wrapper, I'll give you that. But it doesn't help explain Kevin's lack of alibi and his bloody print, made in fresh blood with no signs of coagulation.

Agree with your logic about the wrapper. If it had been out in full view from the night before, I think it is possible that KJ would have killed her the night before. And if it came from another lover, wouldn't Nona have wanted to get it out of the apartment trash, for instance, before KJ came over on the 14th?

[oxfordwebster]

The condom wrapper is the key. We know that KJ and Nona did not use condoms. KJ probably didn't just carry around a condom wrapper that he had found with someone else's fingerprints/DNA on it just to plant at a murder scene in the future, in case he lost his temper and wanted to murder someone and cover his trail. That being said, he would have had to leave the apartment, covered in blood, and go foraging through trash for a condom wrapper to plant. That would take time, and time he does not have.Or Kevin could have condoms because he had sex with other girls aside from Nona.

[christina]

That seems like a funny way to work. I would expect that you wouldn't want to drop York because there was evidence that he was involved in the murder, yet the only person with a bloody print is Kevin. We know it isn't York's, since he gave his prints, isn't that what you said before?

Oh, we already know that the print showed no clots according to prosecution testimony. Did the defense try to dispute this and point out the coagulation evidence? I must have missed that.

The "tacky" controversy was rendered moot early on, when Bacon clarified exactly what he meant by the phrase and testified that the print looked the same five days later. It was a dry print, unless you want to call Bacon a liar. If that is the case, then I do hope you encourage perjury charges to set that straight.

We know it was "possible" for Jones to touch the lamp when he found her. What I find unbelievable is that every person--Ryan, Kevin, and Kevin's mother--claimed he did not touch it. I'm not going to retype the rest of my thoughts on this subject, as I've done it multiple times and received no answers.

As for actual time of death, I bet we can get a pretty good idea by looking at Kevin's lack of an alibi and the palm print evidence that even had defense expert's unwillingly confirming that there would have been coagulation in the blood by the time Kevin found her.

You also claimed that Kilbourne didn't contradict any of Morrison's testimony, even though he did--Morrison said that blood required air to clot, while Kilbourne testified that to not be true. To be fair, I doubt Morrison had much of a medical background. His "on the street" experience isn't exactly empirical research.

Oh, and one other thing--the latent prints on the lamp that you claim to not be from Jones? There wasn't any testimony that could make that claim, considering that it was conflicting on whether you could actually compare them to anybody in the first place.

And even that is dubious. The two contractors gave conflicting times on when they left the house, and nobody *but* grandma saw him at 11:30, which he somehow forgot to mention to the police when giving his detailed timelines. Didn't grandma even give conflicting times? I need to look that up. She might have stuck with 11:30, but I could have sworn I read something about that.

It appears you and I are going to have to agree to disagree!
If we choose to disregard Grandma's testimony for protecting her grandson, then we must disregard Carol Dipert for the coke spill testimony.

[oxfordwebster]

It appears you and I are going to have to agree to disagree!I'll agree that you disagree, sure. I won't agree that I'm getting any answers.

If we choose to disregard Grandma's testimony for protecting her grandson, then we must disregard Carol Dipert for the coke spill testimony.That's a pretty serious disconnect in logic, Christina. Mrs. Dipert testified about the stain because the defense pointed it out. There's no conflict there that would lead you to suspect a lie. (Please correct this if I am wrong.)

Kevin's grandma, on the other hand, has testimony that a) Kevin conflicted himself and b) no one else can verify because somehow he was sneaky enough to get into that gas station with no one else seeing him but her. I didn't know that Dover was that big.

[lorettalockhorn]

]I still believe the condom wrapper was a mistake, not a plant.[/QUOTE]

The condom wrapper is the key. We know that KJ and Nona did not use condoms. KJ probably didn't just carry around a condom wrapper that he had found with someone else's fingerprints/DNA on it just to plant at a murder scene in the future, in case he lost his temper and wanted to murder someone and cover his trail. That being said, he would have had to leave the apartment, covered in blood, and go foraging through trash for a condom wrapper to plant. That would take time, and time he does not have.[/QUOTE]

The ME testified that the killer wasn't covered in blood. Kevin could have lucked on a condom wrapper in the trash. He could have found it in the parking lot for all we know. Or someone could have brought it in to help him stage the scene. We may never know. It will never make sense to me that the killer would take the time to stage the scene and leave his own condom wrapper in plain sight.

[christina]

I think for the purposes of considering York, it's going to be difficult since we have so little information available, as opposed to the amount of information that we had re: KJ.

I believe that the station was the Exxon near I-40. He stated that he used a credit card but didn't get a receipt. (Boy, does that sound familiar at my house!) The purchase should be verifiable on the credit card statement. With regard to the condom wrapper, I just still cannot imagine how the killer would have taken time to do whatever staging was done and miss the wrapper in plain sight, if it was his own.

Someone mentioned earlier that Coke will clean blood. Can't believe that Patricia Cornwell has never used that as a way that a suspect would try to destroy evidence! I honestly have never read that before. You do have to wonder if LE verified that it was indeed Coke that was spilled in the car with Luminol, although the ME testified that there would have been little blood on the murderer.


Good point. When the prosecutor asked him about his whereabouts, I was waiting for them to produce that receipt and put it into evidence. They did not-why? I can only assume because they did not have it. But again, why? They knew the defense was going to put York up as a suspicious person and had plenty of time to secure that receipt.

Law enforcement said they unfortunately did not test either York or Jones car.

[christina]

Or Kevin could have condoms because he had sex with other girls aside from Nona.

True, he stated he used a condom with the one girl he had sex with the week prior. But he did not use them with Nona because she was on the pill.
So what is your reasoning for him to bring one to her apartment and where would he get another man's dna to put on it?

[lorettalockhorn]

Good point. When the prosecutor asked him about his whereabouts, I was waiting for them to produce that receipt and put it into evidence. They did not-why? I can only assume because they did not have it. But again, why? They knew the defense was going to put York up as a suspicious person and had plenty of time to secure that receipt.

Law enforcement said they unfortunately did not test either York or Jones car.

Maybe Exxon Mobil wasn't any more cooperative with the investigation that AT&T was.

I knew that LE didn't check out KJ's car, I thought that was just a mix up. Maybe I should have assumed that they didn't test the Coke spill.

[oxfordwebster]

Good point. When the prosecutor asked him about his whereabouts, I was waiting for them to produce that receipt and put it into evidence. They did not-why? I can only assume because they did not have it. But again, why? They knew the defense was going to put York up as a suspicious person and had plenty of time to secure that receipt.Quite possibly because they were using York to establish a timeline for Nona that day. I don't see anybody else asking for receipts and proofs of the other people used for that same purpose.

Law enforcement said they unfortunately did not test either York or Jones car.One of the more regretful things, that's for sure.

[christina]

Slightly OT: Was it ever determined that the clothes found in Nona's apartment that day were the clothes that she wore to her test that morning? I rembember that the defense was skeptical that a witness would remember her green sweater but not his own grade.

I just wonder if someone helped KJ tidy up the scene by taking away her morning of the 15th clothes and leaving behind clothes from the hamper, if that would explain why her panties showed the evidence that she and KJ had intercourse on the 13th. Rumor has it that RW helped KJ with the scene after the murder. I guess that could explain PWhiteside's emotional investment in the case and outburst in court. Does Ryan have an alibi? Was he ever a suspect or person of interest?
It's interesting that folks think that we here should not question the jury's verdict and drop all suspicion of KJ. Yet people outside this board are questioning the case as well.

The boy taking the test with her said jeans and green sweater. There were jeans next to the body but the green sweater was never mentioned, the police said they searched the apartment but not for that particular item.

Whitesides fingerprints, as were Janice Jones, collected by the police. I never heard either were people of interest. They prints were used to rule out ones they found at the scene.

[christina]

I'll agree that you disagree, sure. I won't agree that I'm getting any answers.

That's a pretty serious disconnect in logic, Christina. Mrs. Dipert testified about the stain because the defense pointed it out. There's no conflict there that would lead you to suspect a lie. (Please correct this if I am wrong.)

Kevin's grandma, on the other hand, has testimony that a) Kevin conflicted himself and b) no one else can verify because somehow he was sneaky enough to get into that gas station with no one else seeing him but her. I didn't know that Dover was that big.

I don't disagree with some of the things posted here. Good points have been brought up and I point them out. You have been given answers, so it appears then you just disagree with the answers you get.

As for relative's testimonies, my logic was that if you believe one relative lied, then you must apply that to all relatives.

[jonikay]

So, since Trey's fingerprints were taken, we could assume that none were found at the scene? Did they take Whiteside's dna so they could see if it was a match to the condom? Do we know for sure that Kevin didn't give Ryan his key to Nona's apartment so that Ryan could go to the scene and plant the condom wrapper and clean up some of the mess? Have we been privy to Ryan's alibi at the time of the murder? And being at work doesn't count, if in fact he was on the clock when he found Nona . . . We might as well rule everyone out and since Trey is shown as a suspect here, we should dispel the rumors I am hearing that Ryan was an accomplice. This is all my opinion . . .

[oxfordwebster]

True, he stated he used a condom with the one girl he had sex with the week prior. But he did not use them with Nona because she was on the pill.
So what is your reasoning for him to bring one to her apartment and where would he get another man's dna to put on it?Considering that it was, as the defense expert testified, only a small amount of DNA of the y-chromosome variety, there's no telling. I'd like to see an independent test on the sample myself, because I'm leery of relying only on who the defense paid to testify and perform the tests.

[oxfordwebster]

I don't disagree with some of the things posted here. Good points have been brought up and I point them out. You have been given answers, so it appears then you just disagree with the answers you get.No. In fact, a lot of my points are being completely ignored. I would really like someone to counter my points, where I use both prosecution and defense testimony, over the bloody print.

As for relative's testimonies, my logic was that if you believe one relative lied, then you must apply that to all relatives.Oh, absolutely not. I believe Janice Jones when she said she never saw Kevin touched the lamp, for example. I don't have a reason to believe that she lied about that, because it goes with every other bit of evidence and testimony.

[christina]

Quite possibly because they were using York to establish a timeline for Nona that day. I don't see anybody else asking for receipts and proofs of the other people used for that same purpose.

One of the more regretful things, that's for sure.

Stated earlier that was the case- The prosecution called York to determine when the battery was removed from Nona's cell phone.
The defense witnesses were asked- A receipt for Jones lunch was provided, e-mails to and from a professor were provided, eye witness testimony of seeing Jones was provided as well.

[oxfordwebster]

Stated earlier that was the case- The prosecution called York to determine when the battery was removed from Nona's cell phone.
The defense witnesses were asked- A receipt for Jones lunch was provided, e-mails to and from a professor were provided, eye witness testimony of seeing Jones was provided as well.Kevin was the one on trial, right? I keep getting mixed up and thinking that this York kid was.

Oh, and let's not even get into the hilarity of a waitress being able to identify a cash exchange at a restaurant on a receipt where she didn't even wait on Kevin, and couldn't identify any of the other transactions on the receipt. The clarification that it was in information on a computer is even more laughable.

[christina]

No. In fact, a lot of my points are being completely ignored. I would really like someone to counter my points, where I use both prosecution and defense testimony, over the bloody print.

Oh, absolutely not. I believe Janice Jones when she said she never saw Kevin touched the lamp, for example. I don't have a reason to believe that she lied about that, because it goes with every other bit of evidence and testimony.

I don't know what else to say on that matter that I have already said.

We know this because she was not the intital one in the apartment. Jones and Whiteside entered from the rear while she was still at the front door. Whiteside and Jones testified that Jones went right to the body and turned her over as soon as the slider was opened. Then Whiteside called 911 while going to the front door to let Janice in. Common sense tells me, due to the close proximity of the light bulb to the body, Jones touched the bulb without being aware he did. And common sense also tells me Whiteside and Janice Jones probably never saw it happen. The jury seemed to agree after listening to all the testimony as well.

What say you about the prints on the lamp pole closest to the base(murder weapon) that have someone's, but not Jones prints on it? If Jones placed a print on the bulb, why not on the pole near the base?

[al38]

Would anyone like to share the outburst of Patty Whiteside???
We got to hear that Duane said something to the effect of "you got away with it, didn't you Kevin?" but then there was something mentioned here about Patty saying something. Anyone know?

[christina]

Kevin was the one on trial, right? I keep getting mixed up and thinking that this York kid was.

Oh, and let's not even get into the hilarity of a waitress being able to identify a cash exchange at a restaurant on a receipt where she didn't even wait on Kevin, and couldn't identify any of the other transactions on the receipt. The clarification that it was in information on a computer is even more laughable.

From the nature of your posts my quess is you have some kind of dog in this fight. If you are a family member or close friend of Nona's or the family- I am very sorry for your loss. It was/is tragic that a young, talented woman was murdered. I can only imagine the grief and loss felt.
I do not want to argue with you.

[oxfordwebster]

We know this because she was not the intital one in the apartment. Jones and Whiteside entered from the rear while she was still at the front door. Whiteside and Jones testified that Jones went right to the body and turned her over as soon as the slider was opened. Then Whiteside called 911 while going to the front door to let Janice in. Common sense tells me, due to the close proximity of the light bulb to the body, Jones touched the bulb without being aware he did. And common sense also tells me Whiteside and Janice Jones probably never saw it happen. The jury seemed to agree after listening to all the testimony as well.Don't pretend to think that we know what the jury agreed with. They haven't explained anything.

What say you about the prints on the lamp pole closest to the base(murder weapon) that have someone's, but not Jones prints on it? If Jones placed a print on the bulb, why not on the pole near the base?The latent prints that aren't suitable for comparison? Bacon thought they were suitable, another latent print examiner said that they weren't and his colleagues agreed with him. We don't know if they were prints from Jones or not.

And even that, latent prints on something that is touched in a household are hard to take as seriously as a bloody print in that showed no evidence of coagulation.

[oxfordwebster]

From the nature of your posts my quess is you have some kind of dog in this fight. If you are a family member or close friend of Nona's or the family- I am very sorry for your loss. It was/is tragic that a young, talented woman was murdered. I can only imagine the grief and loss felt.
I do not want to argue with you.I have legitimate criticisms of the testimony and presentation of this case. You cannot hand-wave that away by claiming it's something else.

Everybody in Russellville has a "dog in this fight."

[christina]

So, since Trey's fingerprints were taken, we could assume that none were found at the scene? Did they take Whiteside's dna so they could see if it was a match to the condom? Do we know for sure that Kevin didn't give Ryan his key to Nona's apartment so that Ryan could go to the scene and plant the condom wrapper and clean up some of the mess? Have we been privy to Ryan's alibi at the time of the murder? And being at work doesn't count, if in fact he was on the clock when he found Nona . . . We might as well rule everyone out and since Trey is shown as a suspect here, we should dispel the rumors I am hearing that Ryan was an accomplice. This is all my opinion . . .

Bacon testified he thought the prints on the lamp pole were sutiable for comparison and sent them to the crime lab. The latent print examiner at the crime lab did not feel they were sutiable but ran them through AFIS(?) and did not get a "hit". There was no testimony that law enforcement compared those prints to York. The defense testified they compared them to Jones and they were not his. The prosecution never disagreed.

As for Whiteside, the prosecution intially viewed him as their witness. He was not a person of interest. But when they got him on the stand, the prosecution asked he be considered a hostile witness. The judge agreed. That allowed them to ask him leading questions and they did grill him.

[oxfordwebster]

As for Whiteside, the prosecution intially viewed him as their witness. He was not a person of interest. But when they got him on the stand, the prosecution asked he be considered a hostile witness. The judge agreed. That allowed them to ask him leading questions and they did grill him.Aren't you leaving out why he was considered a hostile witness? (Not that I'm implying you would ever leave anything out... just curious.)

[jonikay]

Bacon testified he thought the prints on the lamp pole were sutiable for comparison and sent them to the crime lab. The latent print examiner at the crime lab did not feel they were sutiable but ran them through AFIS(?) and did not get a "hit". There was no testimony that law enforcement compared those prints to York. The defense testified they compared them to Jones and they were not his. The prosecution never disagreed.

As for Whiteside, the prosecution intially viewed him as their witness. He was not a person of interest. But when they got him on the stand, the prosecution asked he be considered a hostile witness. The judge agreed. That allowed them to ask him leading questions and they did grill him.
So, due to Ryan's testimony, should he be considered a person of interest? What do you think about the "rumors" that Ryan was an accomplice to Kevin's murder of Nona?

[christina]

Don't pretend to think that we know what the jury agreed with. They haven't explained anything.

The latent prints that aren't suitable for comparison? Bacon thought they were suitable, another latent print examiner said that they weren't and his colleagues agreed with him. We don't know if they were prints from Jones or not.
And even that, latent prints on something that is touched in a household are hard to take as seriously as a bloody print in that showed no evidence of coagulation.

Exactly like the the clotted blood on the bulb-experts disagreed.

It was testified to that the prints were compared with Jones and they were not his. I can not find where it states whether they were in blood or not. But as the ME stated, not much blood would have neccessarily been on the murderer's hands. And as the prosecution showed in closing arguments, their belief is that the pole near the base of the lamp was swung to make the final blow. I would say prints found there are very important.

[lorettalockhorn]

I have legitimate criticisms of the testimony and presentation of this case. You cannot hand-wave that away by claiming it's something else.

Everybody in Russellville has a "dog in this fight."

Ox, that is so true, considering that a killer walks the streets. And we are protected from him by a poorly trained set of invetigators and officers. Maybe I should have been more strident and personally invested in the verdict myself.

[christina]

So, due to Ryan's testimony, should he be considered a person of interest? What do you think about the "rumors" that Ryan was an accomplice to Kevin's murder of Nona?

I've heard them and asked around a bit. The police did not follow anything up on Whiteside so I don't know.

[christina]

Ox, that is so true, considering that a killer walks the streets. And we are protected from him by a poorly trained set of invetigators and officers. Maybe I should have been more strident and personally invested in the verdict myself.


Or in a further/future investigation.

[christina]

Aren't you leaving out why he was considered a hostile witness? (Not that I'm implying you would ever leave anything out... just curious.)

Please re read my post.

[christina]

Would anyone like to share the outburst of Patty Whiteside???
We got to hear that Duane said something to the effect of "you got away with it, didn't you Kevin?" but then there was something mentioned here about Patty saying something. Anyone know?

Oxford Webster brought that up.

[jonikay]

I've heard them and asked around a bit. The police did not follow anything up on Whiteside so I don't know.
So, I guess that it is probable that Trey and Ryan could be considered on the same footing, as far as a further investigation is concerned.

[oxfordwebster]

Exactly like the the clotted blood on the bulb-experts disagreed.Absolutely not. I've made very clear my points on the expert testimony on the print, and it is a lot different than two experts disagreeing over the usefulness of latent prints. Latent prints have always been hard to get exactly right, and that's one reason why there are only around a hundred certified latent print examiners.

It was testified to that the prints were compared with Jones and they were not his. I can not find where it states whether they were in blood or not. But as the ME stated, not much blood would have neccessarily been on the murderer's hands. And as the prosecution showed in closing arguments, their belief is that the pole near the base of the lamp was swung to make the final blow. I would say prints found there are very important.Hrm.

Bacon, who is a certified latent print examiner, said he was unable to match latent prints found on the floor lamp base and on the lamp pole near the base with known prints from Jones, Janice Jones, Ryan Whiteside or James “Trey” York.

When questioned about state crime lab fingerprint examiner Bobby Humphries’ decision that the same latent prints were unsuitable for comparison, Bacon said, “I respect his opinion.”

“Does that make him wrong?” Phillips asked.

“No,” Bacon said. He added the prints were unsuitable for comparison through the Automated Fingerprint Identification System, a computerized database used by law enforcement to help identify fingerprints.

He said there was no way to tell when the prints were made, and there was a possibility that the prints were Dirksmeyer’s. Her fingerprints were not recorded after death. He said no other fingerprints were brought to him for comparison.

[oxfordwebster]

Please re read my post.Oh, I don't think so. You left out why he was a hostile witness.

Ryan Whiteside was the first witness to take the stand Wednesday morning. He agreed with Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Jeff Phillips’ assessment that he was at the time of the murder and still is one of Jones’ best friends.

He also agreed when Phillips said, “You want to help Mr. Jones with his defense, is that correct?,” resulting in Special Judge John Patterson ruling to classify Whiteside as an “adversarial” or hostile witness, a classification which affords the opposing side special privileges in questioning witnesses, specifically with respect to issues of “leading” witnesses.

[doublenaughtspy]

(I did see the back of Winters' head in that video. Is it true that he hugged JJones at some point?)[/QUOTE]


During the morning news on KARK 4, they played the video over and over again everytime they brought out the jury virdict, (recap) and yes you can plainly see the Sheriff go behind the attorney's and up to KJ mom and hug her. The long video from the day before cuts out and over to the woman newscaster before you see the sheriff do that. But the morning video with out her "live" report is the one the shows over and over again the sheriff and KJ mom. I think this was brough up yesterday too....

[lorettalockhorn]

During the morning news on KARK 4, they played the video over and over again everytime they brought out the jury virdict, (recap) and yes you can plainly see the Sheriff go behind the attorney's and up to KJ mom and hug her. The long video from the day before cuts out and over to the woman newscaster before you see the sheriff do that. But the morning video with out her "live" report is the one the shows over and over again the sheriff and KJ mom. I think this was brough up yesterday too....

I believe that is my post that you quoted. I saw the video that was posted on Channel 4's website. Haven't seen the morning version (if it's different) or the long version. For some reason, I find it strange that Winters would hug her.

[gentilben]

For all those here pre-gag order (FDinLaw, oxford, et al), I have one thing to say: I told you so!!!

[JR2007]

I believe that is my post that you quoted. I saw the video that was posted on Channel 4's website. Haven't seen the morning version (if it's different) or the long version. For some reason, I find it strange that Winters would hug her.

Loretta, Clear out some space in PM's

[lorettalockhorn]

Or in a further/future investigation.

I have not said that I thought that there shouldn't be more investigation. Quite the opposite. Surprised that anyone could miss that. I've been critical of LE and Frost in particular, since I started posting here over a year ago.

[christina]

Considering that it was, as the defense expert testified, only a small amount of DNA of the y-chromosome variety, there's no telling. I'd like to see an independent test on the sample myself, because I'm leery of relying only on who the defense paid to testify and perform the tests.

I think this is a good idea. Unfortunately- who is considered independent? Anyone would have to be paid at this point. Also, what was your opinion of Bevel's testimony since he was paid by the prosecution for it?

[lorettalockhorn]

Loretta, Clear out some space in PM's

I did! *drums nails on keyboard*

[oxfordwebster]

I think this is a good idea. Unfortunately- who is considered independent? Anyone would have to be paid at this point. Also, what was your opinion of Bevel's testimony since he was paid by the prosecution for it?He's a distinguished academic in the field, so he has more on the line than just getting a paycheck.

[lorettalockhorn]

For all those here pre-gag order (FDinLaw, oxford, et al), I have one thing to say: I told you so!!!


hmmm What an odd thing to say.

[christina]

I have not said that I thought that there shouldn't be more investigation. Quite the opposite. Surprised that anyone could miss that. I've been critical of LE and Frost in particular, since I started posting here over a year ago.

I think it was Solobobo that said we as a community have an opportunity to encourage the police to get further training. Excellent point. I think Frost got emotionally involved with Nona's family. Each time he got off the witness stand one member, usually Carol Dipert smiled or encouraged him in some way. He has the reputation of being a good officer.

[christina]

He's a distinguished academic in the field, so he has more on the line than just getting a paycheck.

The defense experts did also. What do you see as the difference?

[oxfordwebster]

The defense experts did also. What do you see as the difference?I must have missed it, but which defense experts were academics who also have written textbooks used for teaching in their respective fields?

[nobody]

Whiteman was the first at the apartment - supposedly not able to get in. He stated that he could hear KJ's mother saying "slow down" on the cell phone - when he was awaiting their arrival. He was also the one to see her through the blinds when Jones arrived. We don't know what he was doing while KJ and his mother were talking to 911 or tending to ND. Here is the kicker...he told KJ to lay on Nona to keep her warm. Did he leave fingerprints or evidence - seems he made it a point not to touch or handle anything himself (smart).

Reference - last paragraphs of http://www.atkinschronicle.com/dover1.pdf

[christina]

I must have missed it, but which defense experts were academics who also have written textbooks used for teaching in their respective fields?

As Bevel was, the three defense experts were retired professionals. Bevel and two others were retired form the police force. (Bevel from Ok City and the other two from Atlanta). The forensic pathologist was retired from another state's crime lab.
So the only difference between them you are pointing out is Bevel likes to teach or write. It boils down to which one a person gives more weight to-head knowledge versus practical or hands on knowledge.

[lorettalockhorn]

Whiteman was the first at the apartment - supposedly not able to get in. He stated that he could hear KJ's mother saying "slow down" on the cell phone - when he was awaiting their arrival. He was also the one to see her through the blinds when Jones arrived. We don't know what he was doing while KJ and his mother were talking to 911 or tending to ND. Here is the kicker...he told KJ to lay on Nona to keep her warm. Did he leave fingerprints or evidence - seems he made it a point not to touch or handle anything himself (smart).

Reference - last paragraphs of http://www.atkinschronicle.com/dover1.pdf


Thanks for the link, I will def initely need my magnifying glass to read it. Don't get me started on what happened when Nona was discovered. Lie down on someone who is minimally seriously injured? KJ had already told the 911 operator he suspected that she was dead and it should have been obvious after six to eight hours.

Just bizarre.

[christina]

He's a distinguished academic in the field, so he has more on the line than just getting a paycheck.

He teaches an occasional course at his alma mater.

[oxfordwebster]

As Bevel was, the three defense experts were retired professionals. Bevel and two others were retired form the police force. (Bevel from Ok City and the other two from Atlanta). The forensic pathologist was retired from ohter state's crime lab.
So the only difference between them you are pointing out is Bevel likes to teach or write. It boils down to which one a person gives more weight to-head knowledge versus practical or hands on knowledge.Is this like the practical, hands-on knowledge of Morrison, who claimed that blood requires air to clot? Kilbourne's own testimony conflicted Morrison there.

Would you agree that a retired professional who becomes an academic, writer of a learning resource, and teacher would be more likely to stay current in his field and follow it?

I'm going to take science over gut feelings any day when we're dealing with something as serious as a murder investigation.

[nobody]

I had not heard anything about this car, until now: "James Evans also resides in the Ingelwood Apartments. He said that he and his wife are both bail bondsmen. He reported that he saw Dirksmeyer's car at her apartment at 8:10 a.m. He said around 2:30 p.m. he was talking to his brother outside the apartment complex. He said her car was in front of her apartment and that he also saw a green SUV. He said he had been to her door earlier in the week when he was inquiring about a dead cat he had found. He reported that Nona answered the door. He told the jurors that he did not see any damage to the door frame earlier in the week."
Reference...http://www.atkinschronicle.com/dt1.htm

[oxfordwebster]

I had not heard anything about this car, until now: "James Evans also resides in the Ingelwood Apartments. He said that he and his wife are both bail bondsmen. He reported that he saw Dirksmeyer's car at her apartment at 8:10 a.m. He said around 2:30 p.m. he was talking to his brother outside the apartment complex. He said her car was in front of her apartment and that he also saw a green SUV. He said he had been to her door earlier in the week when he was inquiring about a dead cat he had found. He reported that Nona answered the door. He told the jurors that he did not see any damage to the door frame earlier in the week."
Reference...http://www.atkinschronicle.com/dt1.htmIt's an extremely small apartment complex, so that SUV could have been there for any number of apartments.

[nobody]

It's an extremely small apartment complex, so that SUV could have been there for any number of apartments.

It drew his attention...that is why I mention it. It looks like the parking lot wraps around 4 duplexes in close proximity - which gives me the indication that he lived in another, on either side of hers. He would probably recognize most of the tenants cars - so, this could have been a visitor (at an odd time). Maybe a pizza delivery or returned cake pan?

[christina]

It drew his attention...that is why I mention it. It looks like the parking lot wraps around 4 duplexes in close proximity - which gives me the indication that he lived in another, on either side of hers. He would probably recognize most of the tenants cars - so, this could have been a visitor (at an odd time). Maybe a pizza delivery or returned cake pan?

No explanation was given in court. And where is the cake pan?

[nobody]

I did a quick search on myspace and found someone in Arkansas under the name of Trey York. Dark hair, 19. If this is him, it is not what I would think a murderer would look like. Maybe odd, but not dangerous looking.

[christina]

You know what was said, Christina. I understand if you don't want to repeat what said, though. You are, as you make clear, a friend of the Whiteside's who declared Kevin innocent after two days in the trial.

You do like to taunt! My turn- at least I waited 2 days.
After the verdict was read, I saw Patty go up with the rest of Jones suppoorters towards the defense table, in order to do so she had to pass by the bench where Nona's family members were sitting. Mr Dipert stood up and said his peace, then I saw Patty turn towards him, she said something very quietly that I could not hear(I asked several people around me what she said and they did not hear it either). I watched Channel 4's video and could not make it out either. But you could tell by her face it was intense. (I personally wish she had just ignored the comment made by Mr. Dipert.)
Then a young woman jumped up from the family bench, stretched her arms out, standing in front of Mr Dipert and yelled something to the effect of "leave my dad alone".

[upallnight]

I don't understand. What has been deleted? Can you give an example of what the moderator considers deleteworthy?

SusieQ has a banned edit under some of hers, I wonder if this has something to do with it? Lordy, Lordy!

[TJEddie]

christina, you mentioned overhearing a prosecutor mention "taking the fifth" in a sidebar immediately prior to Trey's testimony. I have no reason to doubt you on this, so I am going to go with it.....

What criminal liability might Trey have opened himself up to in his testimony? Obviously the prosecution didn't suspect him of being the murderer. Given Trey's age and the fact that this is a college community, my best guess is drug dealing. If this is/was the case, it would cast some things about Trey's behavior and testimony in a different light for me. I'm going to have to ponder this......

(And once again, I want to express my GREAT APPRECIATION for what you have contributed here.)

[lorettalockhorn]

I did a quick search on myspace and found someone in Arkansas under the name of Trey York. Dark hair, 19. If this is him, it is not what I would think a murderer would look like. Maybe odd, but not dangerous looking.


What exactly does a murderer look like? Scott Peterson? The Menendez brothers? Charles Manson?

[christina]

Is this like the practical, hands-on knowledge of Morrison, who claimed that blood requires air to clot? Kilbourne's own testimony conflicted Morrison there.

Would you agree that a retired professional who becomes an academic, writer of a learning resource, and teacher would be more likely to stay current in his field and follow it?

I'm going to take science over gut feelings any day when we're dealing with something as serious as a murder investigation.

I disagree with that conclusion. Morrison said that when a body is turned over, "fresh" (unclotted)blood could come out of a wound such as this case. He said it happenend to him while investigating murders a number of times. They both agreed that the amount of hair and the fact she was face down after being murdered, would cause a clot on the outside of the wound, thus almost "sealing" the blood inside.

No, I would not neccessarily agree with that. It would depend on the individual.

[christina]

What exactly does a murderer look like? Scott Peterson? The Menendez brothers? Charles Manson?

Good point.

[nobody]

What exactly does a murderer look like? Scott Peterson? The Menendez brothers? Charles Manson?

Good reply. I just meant he looked soft. The little girl hanging on his shoulder adds to the gentle touch.

[oxfordwebster]

You do like to taunt! My turn- at least I waited 2 days.
After the verdict was read, I saw Patty go up with the rest of Jones suppoorters towards the defense table, in order to do so she had to pass by the bench where Nona's family members were sitting. Mr Dipert stood up and said his peace, then I saw Patty turn towards him, she said something very quietly that I could not hear(I asked several people around me what she said and they did not hear it either). I watched Channel 4's video and could not make it out either. But you could tell by her face it was intense. (I personally wish she had just ignored the comment made by Mr. Dipert.)
Then a young woman jumped up from the family bench, stretched her arms out, standing in front of Mr Dipert and yelled something to the effect of "leave my dad alone".Was she asked to leave the courtroom?