Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[lorettalockhorn]

To continue. The prosecutions job is to prove that he is guilty if he did it. The defense doesn't have to prove he didn't do it but they have done an excellent job at confusing the jury by making statements that have no factual value. The Jury is trying their best to get their minds around this whole thing and the defense is trying their best to confuse the Jury. I don't intend to get into any arguments with anyone on this, just stating some things that have bothered me about this whole mess.

I would say that KJ's attorneys have put on a vigorous defense, even if it has only been by the roiling waters method.

Interesting comment in today's Courier about Johnson's extraneous remarks in the courtroom. And there have been comments about the defense and some members of the gallery laughing inappropriately. I find it distasteful.

Wonder if The Courier has updated yet?

[lorettalockhorn]

For anyone who is interested:

http://couriernews.com/

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15380

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15379

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15378

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15377

[FDInLaw]

For anyone who is interested:

http://couriernews.com/

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15380

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15379

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15378

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15377 Thanks Loretta! :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

I haven't caught up with the post yet, but I don't think I missed anything, but more bickering. I haven't had time to read all the Courier papers either, but what I did read doesn't sound like everyone went to the same trial. First off I don't believe for one moment, and I doubt the jury will either, Grandma's and Huggins stories and alibis for KJ.
It's my opinion now more then ever that kj murdered Nona, and is probably going to get away with it. Yes I know a few things that for the life of me I can't understand why they haven't come out in court. He did it and spent time rearranging the room and doing things to throw off LE. Granted that sounds like at this point it may have been easy to throw them off (LE).
Anyone who finds a body that has been dead for as long as Nona at the time of discovery would not have any question about whether she was dead or not. Considerable effort would have been needed to turn her stiff body over. first clue she was dead. Being discolored and cold. Second clue.
Getting on and off the body at the appropriate times for effect was all show. Hitting the wall when the policeman arrived was an attempt to cover up any bruising or evidence on the hands from him beating the **** out of her.
If he gets off the only consolation is that he will have to live with the fact that one he killed a very beautiful person and secondly he bankrupted his family by not being able to own up to his acts.


I hadn't thought about that; good call. Didn't he do some of the same when he was alone in the interrogation room?

[FDInLaw]

Scrapings from underneath Dirksmeyer’s fingernails were negative for foreign DNA, Rolfe said.


“At the time of death, she was left in a face-down position with her arms folded at the elbow” and her hands drawn up toward her shoulders, he said.
Fifth Judicial District Prosecuting Attorney David Gibbons showed Kokes a portion of Jones’ videotaped interview with police on the night of Dirksmeyer’s death. In the tape, Jones told police he found Dirksmeyer lying face up with her arms extended down and hands folded over her abdomen.
Kokes testified that based on the evidence, it would not be possible for Dirksmeyer to have been in the position Jones described at the time the body was found.
He said Dirksmeyer’s body was left in that position for a period of 6-12 hours after death before the body was turned over. He explained that if the body had been moved within six hours, the blood would have pooled on her back and there would have been no evidence of lividity on her arms or her front inner thighs. If the body were moved after 12 hours in the same position, lividity would be fixed, and the blood would not pool elsewhere, he said.


http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15380

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks Loretta! :seeya:

Smoooooooooches! Not sure how many folks are out of town and/or don't get The Courier.

Also:

http://www.nwarktimes.com/adg/News/195605/

[FDInLaw]

In a report about his observations at the crime scene, Bacon described the blood on the bulb as “primarily dry” with a thicker area “having an appearance that was consistent with tacky.”
He explained to the jurors that he was unable to touch the blood, so therefore tried to best explain the blood’s visual appearance. He compared it to a paint drip on a wall.
“You can touch it and it might be dry, or it might burst because the paint inside is still wet,” he said. “But you don’t know until you touch it.”
He also said the blood had the same appearance five days later.
Based on the position of the floor lamp in relation to Dirksmeyer’s body, for Jones to have touched the bulb while straddling Dirksmeyer, he would have had to lean back 21⁄2 feet, Bacon said. Also, based on the orientation of the palm print and its location on the bulb, Jones’ hand would have to be bent all the way back.
“He would have broken his wrist or the bulb,” Bacon said.


http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15380

This is what I heard yesterday.

[lorettalockhorn]

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15380

This is what I heard yesterday.

Yeah, that really stood out to me too. Bacon said 1-2 1/2 feet, but Laura Brown testified about one foot.

At any rate, I have to ask what in the world was KJ flailing around for while he was performing the resuscitation attempt? Was he reaching for something?

[hawgustusgloop]

Here is what I am struggling with (from one of the Courier articles linked above):

"Earlier in the day, Edward Bauman, a forensic serologist who conducts bodily fluid and DNA examination and testing at the Arkansas State Crime Lab testified he found no seminal fluid or DNA evidence on either the panties or the vaginal swab.
He also denied having found a fingernail or any seminal fluid in the approximately 10-by-10 foot section of carpeting removed from the scene, saying had he noticed any such evidence “I would have collected it.”"

I am finding it hard to reconcile this with the fact that the defense's DNA expert testified that he found a test-able amount of DNA on both the swab and the panties, and also found a fingernail in the carpet.

Is the Arkansas State Crimb Lab frighteningly inadequate, or is something going on with the defense's DNA consultants?

[FDInLaw]

I haven't caught up with the post yet, but I don't think I missed anything, but more bickering. I haven't had time to read all the Courier papers either, but what I did read doesn't sound like everyone went to the same trial. First off I don't believe for one moment, and I doubt the jury will either, Grandma's and Huggins stories and alibis for KJ.
It's my opinion now more then ever that kj murdered Nona, and is probably going to get away with it. Yes I know a few things that for the life of me I can't understand why they haven't come out in court. He did it and spent time rearranging the room and doing things to throw off LE. Granted that sounds like at this point it may have been easy to throw them off (LE).
Anyone who finds a body that has been dead for as long as Nona at the time of discovery would not have any question about whether she was dead or not. Considerable effort would have been needed to turn her stiff body over. first clue she was dead. Being discolored and cold. Second clue.
Getting on and off the body at the appropriate times for effect was all show. Hitting the wall when the policeman arrived was an attempt to cover up any bruising or evidence on the hands from him beating the **** out of her.
If he gets off the only consolation is that he will have to live with the fact that one he killed a very beautiful person and secondly he bankrupted his family by not being able to own up to his acts.
Wow, that is so true, hitting the wall would excuse any bruising he might have had from hitting her. Brilliant catch there, JR.

Like you, I still believe Kevin did this. Despite all the LE fumbles there is no physical evidence that ties anyone else to this crime other than a condom wrapper that could have been planted. No tissue under Nona's nails that implicates anyone. The only recent sexual activity that they can tie to anyone was with Kevin. The angle of the bloody print on the bulb seems to indicate that it was very unlikely that Kevin left it during discovery and his own statements claim that he did not touch it. Should Kevin be acquitted I don't see another person facing charges. . . the physical evidence is just not there IMO.

Reading the description of how Nona was probably killed was really hard. There was not a little love spat wherein Nona was "accidentally" hit and killed in a moment of passion. I may be off my rocker here, but it really struck me that the perpetrator fully intended to kill her. Why else does one try to get at someone's throat with a knife? With tear-filled eyes, I'm left wondering. . . why? :(

[lorettalockhorn]

Here is what I am struggling with (from one of the Courier articles linked above):

"Earlier in the day, Edward Bauman, a forensic serologist who conducts bodily fluid and DNA examination and testing at the Arkansas State Crime Lab testified he found no seminal fluid or DNA evidence on either the panties or the vaginal swab.
He also denied having found a fingernail or any seminal fluid in the approximately 10-by-10 foot section of carpeting removed from the scene, saying had he noticed any such evidence “I would have collected it.”"

I am finding it hard to reconcile this with the fact that the defense's DNA expert testified that he found a test-able amount of DNA on both the swab and the panties, and also found a fingernail in the carpet.

Is the Arkansas State Crimb Lab frighteningly inadequate, or is something going on with the defense's DNA consultants?

Hawg, I asked a similar question the other day. It seems that the State crime lab even when asked to test evidence is not able to for one reason or another. Maybe their equipment it woefully out of date or not sensitive enough? We really need to know what the technical issues are; much of the State is relying on them for expertise.

I'm sure that the defense shopped around for the best testing that money can buy; I know that's what I would do!

[JR2007]

[quote=hawgustusgloop;8909053]Here is what I am struggling with (from one of the Courier articles linked above):

"Earlier in the day, Edward Bauman, a forensic serologist who conducts bodily fluid and DNA examination and testing at the Arkansas State Crime Lab testified he found no seminal fluid or DNA evidence on either the panties or the vaginal swab.
He also denied having found a fingernail or any seminal fluid in the approximately 10-by-10 foot section of carpeting removed from the scene, saying had he noticed any such evidence “I would have collected it.”"

I am finding it hard to reconcile this with the fact that the defense's DNA expert testified that he found a test-able amount of DNA on both the swab and the panties, and also found a fingernail in the carpet.

Is the Arkansas State Crimb Lab frighteningly inadequate, or is <(Quote by Hawgust)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




The defense doesn't have to prove anything. All they need is to put doubt in the Jury's minds, by making statements that aren't of any value or easily disproved, but the statement has done it's damage. The pros. would have to have an army of people to follow all the half truths and speculations that the defense team throws out there. This is their biggest tool to confuse and boggle the minds of the jury.
I doubt that the crime lab is that inadequate, I believe the defense team is that innovative. Remember these are highly motivated political figures, at least 2 are, and a win is a must for them personally.

All MY OPINION AND SPECULATIONS.

[FDInLaw]

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15377

Just finished reading the article above, and I've got to say that my hat is off to the jury. I honestly don't think I could sit through that. Years ago I stopped watching Law & Order and shows of that nature because of the way the images disturbed and haunted me. Prayers for the Jury. . . that they will be able to sleep this weekend. :rose:

Does anyone know anything about Mary Kincy Benefield? I'm really enjoying her style of reporting. . . she really draws me in. So, Mary, if you read this. . . thank you for your fine work! :seeya:

[christina]

To continue. The prosecutions job is to prove that he is guilty if he did it. The defense doesn't have to prove he didn't do it but they have done an excellent job at confusing the jury by making statements that have no factual value. The Jury is trying their best to get their minds around this whole thing and the defense is trying their best to confuse the Jury. I don't intend to get into any arguments with anyone on this, just stating some things that have bothered me about this whole mess.

Don't want to argue either. Can you share an example of a statement made by the defense that has no factual value?

[christina]

I wasn't referring to the PCS. I was referring to the ME's testimony and snippets of what I've read about his interrogation. Yes, it is noted that he was compliant. But how could he not possibly remember how he found Nona's body? That is ludicrous.

And even if grandmother puts him with her; I'm going to have a hard time with her testimony because his alibi was not sufficient to sway the motion to dismiss. Of course, there is the possibility that she gave a statement immediately after the murder to LE and that would help convince me that her version of the timeline isn't concocted.

Would you explain further why him not remembering the exact position of her body is hanging you up? (see pleasant questioning face here)

[christina]

I would say that KJ's attorneys have put on a vigorous defense, even if it has only been by the roiling waters method.

Interesting comment in today's Courier about Johnson's extraneous remarks in the courtroom. And there have been comments about the defense and some members of the gallery laughing inappropriately. I find it distasteful.

Wonder if The Courier has updated yet?

It has not been reported to you about the comments in the courtroom the prosecution is making unfortunately. It has gone both ways. Never though, from either side, have I heard a comment that was distaseful though.
And I can not think of a time when the laughing was inapropriate. Do you have a specific examples? What has happened on occasion is a lawyer makes a comment/asks a question that is a blunder and it causes laughter. But the atmosphere in the room is pretty tense so it almost like the laughter is a tension breaker, know what I mean?

[jonikay]

It has not been reported to you about the comments in the courtroom the prosecution is making unfortunately. It has gone both ways. Never though, from either side, have I heard a comment that was distaseful though.
And I can not think of a time when the laughing was inapropriate. Do you have a specific examples? What has happened on occasion is a lawyer makes a comment/asks a question that is a blunder and it causes laughter. But the atmosphere in the room is pretty tense so it almost like the laughter is a tension breaker, know what I mean?
Unless the jury has been taken out of the courtroom for a recess and the question arises about bringing yet another of KJ's trysts in to testify in front of the jury, Patterson stating that "all that proves is that he had sex." Inappropriate laughs echo from Jones' side of the courtroom . . . where you were sitting, right?

[christina]

I hadn't thought about that; good call. Didn't he do some of the same when he was alone in the interrogation room?

His hands and entire body were phtotgraphed that night when he was first taken to the police station. There were no signs of bruising, scrapes or anything resembling a struggle.
The officer testified he was sitting on the stairs at the apartment talking with Jones when Jones pounded his fist into the stairs. The officer asked him to stop and he did. That was during the same time the officer asked if he could have Jones' cell phone and testified Jones said sure and handed it to him right then.
During the voluntary interview(the prosecutioin has not inroduced the interrogation tapes), while alone and crying, Jones pounded his fist into the back of the chair he was sitting in.

[christina]

Here is what I am struggling with (from one of the Courier articles linked above):

"Earlier in the day, Edward Bauman, a forensic serologist who conducts bodily fluid and DNA examination and testing at the Arkansas State Crime Lab testified he found no seminal fluid or DNA evidence on either the panties or the vaginal swab.
He also denied having found a fingernail or any seminal fluid in the approximately 10-by-10 foot section of carpeting removed from the scene, saying had he noticed any such evidence “I would have collected it.”"

I am finding it hard to reconcile this with the fact that the defense's DNA expert testified that he found a test-able amount of DNA on both the swab and the panties, and also found a fingernail in the carpet.

Is the Arkansas State Crimb Lab frighteningly inadequate, or is something going on with the defense's DNA consultants?


I also find this interesting. Both experts were led through their procedures then gave their results. The state crime lab said they do a presumptive test and if it is negative they go no further with testing that item. The defense expert said his presumptive test was negative also but he still went on to the next tests.

[christina]

Unless the jury has been taken out of the courtroom for a recess and the question arises about bringing yet another of KJ's trysts in to testify in front of the jury, Patterson stating that "all that proves is that he had sex." Inappropriate laughs echo from Jones' side of the courtroom . . . where you were sitting, right?

That is a good example of inappropriate laughter. If it was during a break I probably ran to the bathroom.

[jonikay]

That is a good example of inappropriate laughter. If it was during a break I probably ran to the bathroom.
I hope so, because I thought it was pitiful.

BTW, I read the Courier article about Bacon stating that he didn't know that Dec. 21 was the shortest day of the year. Bristow (or one of the other def. attorneys) explained that it was the equinox. But in reality, it was the winter solstice. The jury, I guess, found humor in all of this. It kind of reminds me of Trey's billing document made out of California, Eastern Standard Time, explaining why it's one hour earlier than the original call, We are all humans, aren't we? haha

[christina]

[quote=hawgustusgloop;8909053]Here is what I am struggling with (from one of the Courier articles linked above):

"Earlier in the day, Edward Bauman, a forensic serologist who conducts bodily fluid and DNA examination and testing at the Arkansas State Crime Lab testified he found no seminal fluid or DNA evidence on either the panties or the vaginal swab.
He also denied having found a fingernail or any seminal fluid in the approximately 10-by-10 foot section of carpeting removed from the scene, saying had he noticed any such evidence “I would have collected it.”"

I am finding it hard to reconcile this with the fact that the defense's DNA expert testified that he found a test-able amount of DNA on both the swab and the panties, and also found a fingernail in the carpet.

Is the Arkansas State Crimb Lab frighteningly inadequate, or is <(Quote by Hawgust)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




The defense doesn't have to prove anything. All they need is to put doubt in the Jury's minds, by making statements that aren't of any value or easily disproved, but the statement has done it's damage. The pros. would have to have an army of people to follow all the half truths and speculations that the defense team throws out there. This is their biggest tool to confuse and boggle the minds of the jury.
I doubt that the crime lab is that inadequate, I believe the defense team is that innovative. Remember these are highly motivated political figures, at least 2 are, and a win is a must for them personally.

All MY OPINION AND SPECULATIONS.

It doesn't get any more politcally motivated that the prosecution- Gibbons is an elected official who is rumored to want to run for judge next term. Take note that he had pressure for quite a while to bring a charge in this case, he was accused of dragging his feet. The date he brought that charge should be noted here. It was just days before the candidate filing period for his office closed. Timeline- he brings the charge, it makes front page, no one files against him.

[lorettalockhorn]

Would you explain further why him not remembering the exact position of her body is hanging you up? (see pleasant questioning face here)

Because how can he forget?? And how can he think that he saw her hands folded across her abdomen when the rigor position reported by the ME is so drastically different?

It has not been reported to you about the comments in the courtroom the prosecution is making unfortunately. It has gone both ways. Never though, from either side, have I heard a comment that was distaseful though.
And I can not think of a time when the laughing was inapropriate. Do you have a specific examples? What has happened on occasion is a lawyer makes a comment/asks a question that is a blunder and it causes laughter. But the atmosphere in the room is pretty tense so it almost like the laughter is a tension breaker, know what I mean?

Yes, I have heard and read about comments that were distasteful and laughter that was innappropriate. The people who gave me this information may have senses of tastes that differ greatly from yours. I wasn't referring to your own notes that you have been kind enough to post or I would have cited you. You don't begin to know everything that has been reported to me.

I still consider Robbins' taking the Lord's name in vain (when he said, "Oh Jesus" during the hearing and he and Kevin smiled) an affront. The comment that the judge made about Kevin's other sex partner being disallowed having evoked laughter is crude also.

It doesn't help my attitude that the woman won't be allowed to testify. I think that this case is exactly about sex. It could very well be that the woman has information about KJ's attitudes about committment and/or cuckoldry.

[christina]

I hope so, because I thought it was pitiful.

BTW, I read the Courier article about Bacon stating that he didn't know that Dec. 21 was the shortest day of the year. Bristow (or one of the other def. attorneys) explained that it was the equinox. But in reality, it was the winter solstice. The jury, I guess, found humor in all of this. It kind of reminds me of Trey's billing document made out of California, Eastern Standard Time, explaining why it's one hour earlier than the original call, We are all humans, aren't we? haha

Oh, that is not how it played out in the courtroom to me. (By the way, I don't know if I have said this already but Bacon was an excellent witness, very amiable. The jury liked him I think.) People smiled when Bacon told Bristow he did not know that Dec 21st is the shortest day of the year. Bacon said something like "that is one thing I am not an expert in" to which Bristow laughing at himself said something like "so what you are telling us is the Chief of police does not have to know when the equinox is?" Everyone laughed.
To me that was a good example of unintended tension breaking laughter.

[lorettalockhorn]

[QUOTE=JR2007;8909117]

It doesn't get any more politcally motivated that the prosecution- Gibbons is an elected official who is rumored to want to run for judge next term. Take note that he had pressure for quite a while to bring a charge in this case, he was accused of dragging his feet. The date he brought that charge should be noted here. It was just days before the candidate filing period for his office closed. Timeline- he brings the charge, it makes front page, no one files against him.

He's an elected official who is being pressured to bring charges. Sounds like if he hadn't, the spin would be that he wasn't doing his job.

He brings the charges and no one files against him. Since when would that kind of thing stop someone who really wanted to run for office and thought that they could do a good job?

Lawyers are like wrestlers, the climb into the ring, talk smack, do battle and then when it's all over, they hang out together. I can't think of any attorney around here who would be intimidated by Gibbons filing charges in this case.

[lorettalockhorn]

I hope so, because I thought it was pitiful.

BTW, I read the Courier article about Bacon stating that he didn't know that Dec. 21 was the shortest day of the year. Bristow (or one of the other def. attorneys) explained that it was the equinox. But in reality, it was the winter solstice. The jury, I guess, found humor in all of this. It kind of reminds me of Trey's billing document made out of California, Eastern Standard Time, explaining why it's one hour earlier than the original call, We are all humans, aren't we? haha


That is kinda funny. I guess if you're going to one up the witness, you should study your almanac!

(I guess I know the solstices because I was born on 6/22 and the family joke was that My Sainted Mother would never forget that it was the longest night of the year and maybe her life. ;) )

[FDInLaw]

His hands and entire body were phtotgraphed that night when he was first taken to the police station. There were no signs of bruising, scrapes or anything resembling a struggle.
The officer testified he was sitting on the stairs at the apartment talking with Jones when Jones pounded his fist into the stairs. The officer asked him to stop and he did. That was during the same time the officer asked if he could have Jones' cell phone and testified Jones said sure and handed it to him right then.
During the voluntary interview(the prosecutioin has not inroduced the interrogation tapes), while alone and crying, Jones pounded his fist into the back of the chair he was sitting in.
Also, from one of the articles today, it sounds like Nona wasn't able to fight back. . . how terrifying for her. She didn't even have the satisfaction of getting a few punches in. Someone I talked with today wondered if maybe she was use to being punched by this person and just opted to "take it" not realizing that this time the person was angry enough to take her life.
:(
'
'
'
'

[christina]

Because how can he forget?? And how can he think that he saw her hands folded across her abdomen when the rigor position reported by the ME is so drastically different?



Yes, I have heard and read about comments that were distasteful and laughter that was innappropriate. The people who gave me this information may have senses of tastes that differ greatly from yours. I wasn't referring to your own notes that you have been kind enough to post or I would have cited you. You don't begin to know everything that has been reported to me.
I still consider Robbins' taking the Lord's name in vain (when he said, "Oh Jesus" during the hearing and he and Kevin smiled) an affront. The comment that the judge made about Kevin's other sex partner being disallowed having evoked laughter is crude also.

It doesn't help my attitude that the woman won't be allowed to testify. I think that this case is exactly about sex. It could very well be that the woman has information about KJ's attitudes about committment and/or cuckoldry.

Correct Loretta, I need not presume to know where you get all your information.

I remember now the incident jonikay shared. I was in the courtroom when the judge ruled on whether the girl Jones had sex with could testify. The jury was gone at that time The prosecution wanted to bring her in as a witness to testify that they did have sex. The defense said it was unneccessary because on the taped interview, Jones himself volunteers that information to the officers. He gives them a date, time, and place. The judge ruled that since the defendent himself admits it, it does not need coroboration. The prosecution kept argueing until the judge, appearing exasperated says, all she is going to do is say what Jones admitted they did- they had sex, we already know that.

You have introduced me to a new word- cuckoldry

[christina]

Also, from one of the articles today, it sounds like Nona wasn't able to fight back. . . how terrifying for her. She didn't even have the satisfaction of getting a few punches in. Someone I talked with today wondered if maybe she was use to being punched by this person and just opted to "take it" not realizing that this time the person was angry enough to take her life.
:(
'
'
'
'

Yes, the description of the murder was tough to listen to. It was a quick, brutal attack intended to simply murder her. I gathered the person knew her and had some knowledge of her apartment.
There have been no reports of prior abuse like this in her life have there? How could she compete in pageants with bruises?

[jonikay]

Correct Loretta, I need not presume to know where you get all your information.

I remember now the incident jonikay shared. I was in the courtroom when the judge ruled on whether the girl Jones had sex with could testify. The jury was gone at that time The prosecution wanted to bring her in as a witness to testify that they did have sex. The defense said it was unneccessary because on the taped interview, Jones himself volunteers that information to the officers. He gives them a date, time, and place. The judge ruled that since the defendent himself admits it, it does not need coroboration. The prosecution kept argueing until the judge, appearing exasperated says, all she is going to do is say what Jones admitted they did- they had sex, we already know that.

You have introduced me to a new word- cuckoldry
Yes, I was there as well and the prosecution was arguing that this was another woman and that it proves that KJ lied to LE and cements what RW says about "times" that KJ had sex with others. Not to forget that we endured talk of Nona having oral sex and "regular" (?) sex with other guys. His testimony had to be in detail about their tryst and Patterson wouldn't allow that same testimony about KJ. A win for the defense . . . The laughter was still inappropriate, imo and really gave me insight . . .

[christina]

[QUOTE=christina;8909200]

He's an elected official who is being pressured to bring charges. Sounds like if he hadn't, the spin would be that he wasn't doing his job.

He brings the charges and no one files against him. Since when would that kind of thing stop someone who really wanted to run for office and thought that they could do a good job?

Lawyers are like wrestlers, the climb into the ring, talk smack, do battle and then when it's all over, they hang out together. I can't think of any attorney around here who would be intimidated by Gibbons filing charges in this case.

Accurate and funny description of lawyers Loretta!
I was simply responding to the comment that the defense lawyers are the only politically motivated ones in this case.
I'll bet that should Gibbons run for office again, he will have opponents.

[FDInLaw]

Correct Loretta, I need not presume to know where you get all your information.

I remember now the incident jonikay shared. I was in the courtroom when the judge ruled on whether the girl Jones had sex with could testify. The jury was gone at that time The prosecution wanted to bring her in as a witness to testify that they did have sex. The defense said it was unneccessary because on the taped interview, Jones himself volunteers that information to the officers. He gives them a date, time, and place. The judge ruled that since the defendent himself admits it, it does not need coroboration. The prosecution kept argueing until the judge, appearing exasperated says, all she is going to do is say what Jones admitted they did- they had sex, we already know that.

You have introduced me to a new word- cuckoldry :lol: Me too! Loretta, you come up with some funny ones. . . I'm still laughing about your "unmolested" comment yesterday!

On topic. . . I thought there was more than one girl to testify to having sex with Jones??? If there were two it would show that Kevin lied to LE. Either way, if I were on the jury I would have a hard time taking his comments about planning to purpose seriously in light of the fact that he admitted to sleeping with another girl the weekend before.

[jonikay]

Refer to my post 2 above you, FD. There was more than one girl . . . The prosecution wanted to prove that KJ lied to LE. It didn't stand, but they hope to bring her back during closing arguments.

[FDInLaw]

Refer to my post 2 above you, FD. There was more than one girl . . . The prosecution wanted to prove that KJ lied to LE. It didn't stand, but they hope to bring her back during closing arguments.I just don't understand why the PA was not allowed to call her. :flamemad: The "Kevin Jones" that is being presented to the jury is a complete lie.

(Okay. . . I'll go cool down for a bit.)

[lorettalockhorn]

Also, from one of the articles today, it sounds like Nona wasn't able to fight back. . . how terrifying for her. She didn't even have the satisfaction of getting a few punches in. Someone I talked with today wondered if maybe she was use to being punched by this person and just opted to "take it" not realizing that this time the person was angry enough to take her life.
:(
'
'
'
'

It does appear that she was in a totally defensive position. She may have disrobed for him thinking that that very day was the day that they might solidify their relationship. Instead, she was more vulnerable than ever.

Seventeen wounds. Heartbreaking.

[christina]

:lol: Me too! Loretta, you come up with some funny ones. . . I'm still laughing about your "unmolested" comment yesterday!

On topic. . . I thought there was more than one girl to testify to having sex with Jones??? If there were two it would show that Kevin lied to LE. Either way, if I were on the jury I would have a hard time taking his comments about planning to purpose seriously in light of the fact that he admitted to sleeping with another girl the weekend before.

I agree. I asked my grown children about that and they told me it is common for singles to have "friends with benefits" nowadays, meaning they don't date but just have sex. I am not going to even give an opinion on that as I am sure we can agree that is not "common" for us!
TMK(To My Knowledge-made that one up)there was to be only one female witness per Jones' sex life. It appears the lawyers have a "truce" between them over the sex habits of the victim and defendent. There were two other male college friends of the victim(both in the hall outside the courtroom waiting) that were cut from the witness list that day. As it has been stated here before, it was uncomfortable to hear the two young men that did testify tell there stories with the victim. When the music major one testified, there was a reaction from many when asked specifically about sex other than intercourse and he said the victim had given him oral sex in a music room at ATU.
Personally I am glad no more sex talk is being brought up. I can not see how it would go to motive knowing both were spending time with others.

[christina]

Refer to my post 2 above you, FD. There was more than one girl . . . The prosecution wanted to prove that KJ lied to LE. It didn't stand, but they hope to bring her back during closing arguments.

I do remember Whiteside using the plural when asked by the prosecution if Jones had sex with anyone other than Nona.

[christina]

I just don't understand why the PA was not allowed to call her. :flamemad: The "Kevin Jones" that is being presented to the jury is a complete lie.

(Okay. . . I'll go cool down for a bit.)

I do not understand this comment/reaction. All the witnesses so far are the prosecution's. (Well, except the one defense expert that had to go out of order). It is those witnesses testifying to Jones behavoir, character and whereabouts. We have seen several hours of a voluntary interview of Jones. He did not know he was being filmed so I would think the several times he was left alone his behavoir would have been genuine. So far all we know that was "bad" about him was he had sex with at least one, maybe more people other than Nona. But we know that about her as well. Just as that is no reason for her murder, it is not a reason for him to be wrongfully convicted.

[christina]

It does appear that she was in a totally defensive position. She may have disrobed for him thinking that that very day was the day that they might solidify their relationship. Instead, she was more vulnerable than ever.

Seventeen wounds. Heartbreaking.

I also think it probable her clothes were voluntarily removed. The pictures show her apartment with clothes everywhere. Bra and pants on the floor did not appear to be an unusual place for her to drop them. Also, how can pants be "forcibly removed" but socks remain in place?
The ME said there were many more than 17 injuries. There were 17 stab cuts/wounds, four of which were "significant". And she had bruises and contusions as well. Then there is the wound to the back of the head which caused her death.
I was impressed the coronor attended the complete autopsy.

[jonikay]

I mentioned this in several of my posts. As far as the sex conversations go, Nona was no better than Kevin in this aspect, we have already learned this. IMO, it would have almost sounded more believable, in my own opinion, if Kevin had just stated that he and Nona were still close friends, but didn't have much of a relationship anymore. The actuality of a relationship between the two has pretty much been shot down. I feel like the reason Kevin explained to LE that they were "very exclusive" is because at that moment, when he saw her dead, he truly did love her and felt that they would possibly marry someday. But as far as a relationship between the two according to any "normal, common" standards, neither of them held it in high regards. I missed the part about an occurence in a music room at ATU. Was this Jordan during his testimony? I heard the whole thing, but sure as heck didn't hear anything like that at all! (Insert surprised reaction smilie here)

[jonikay]

It is my opinion that the clothes could have been forcibly or voluntarily removed. It is not an issue in the case as far as I know, so it isn't something I've thought about much. I do think that her socks could have stayed on either way, though. Maybe she was on her way to take a shower and was in a hurry??? It seems that she was always scared of being alone at night. I gather this from testimony that she asked at least a few guys to do so. I know it has already been established, but it is weird that you could see through her sliding door, yet she left all her clothes downstairs after taking a shower upstairs. It also seems weird to me that it has become the norm for us, me included (!!!) to discuss everyday occurences of people involved in this case. I guess that's what happens when it becomes an issue in a murder. I had another thought last night, and it's just a thought . . . Let's just say that Trey York had absolutely nothing to do with this murder at all, that it's just a coincidence that he texted her on that fateful day (of course, I'm afraid we'll never know what truly happened) . . . I'll bet he thought "oh sh*t, I got wrapped up in the wrong girl . . . " It seems that she had so many boys coming in and out of that apartment, that if Kevin didn't do it, it could be any number of them . . .

[christina]

I mentioned this in several of my posts. As far as the sex conversations go, Nona was no better than Kevin in this aspect, we have already learned this. IMO, it would have almost sounded more believable, in my own opinion, if Kevin had just stated that he and Nona were still close friends, but didn't have much of a relationship anymore. The actuality of a relationship between the two has pretty much been shot down. I feel like the reason Kevin explained to LE that they were "very exclusive" is because at that moment, when he saw her dead, he truly did love her and felt that they would possibly marry someday. But as far as a relationship between the two according to any "normal, common" standards, neither of them held it in high regards. I missed the part about an occurence in a music room at ATU. Was this Jordan during his testimony? I heard the whole thing, but sure as heck didn't hear anything like that at all! (Insert surprised reaction smilie here)

I understand your points. These are two young people who had been friends/dating for several years and had possibly just fallen into a pattern. I have seen many marry just because they have known each other so long or there was an expectation from others. Both families have expressed that their expectation was the two would marry.
As for the testimony, if Jordan was the music major(I'm thinking taller with light colored hair, said he was working this summer at a Christian camp)than yes, it was him I am talking about. I was so shocked by what I thought I heard, I asked the woman next to me if that was what he said and she confirmed it. But, as I have agreed to here, mine is just one of the reports.

[jonikay]

Not that Nona was "the wrong girl," but in that moment, when they were taking his cell phone and fingerprinting him . . . even if Kevin did it, Trey was probably so scared and wondered why or how he ever got thrown into it all, like "who'da thunk it?"

[jonikay]

I understand your points. These are two young people who had been friends/dating for several years and had possibly just fallen into a pattern. I have seen many marry just because they have known each other so long or there was an expectation from others. Both families have expressed that their expectation was the two would marry.
As for the testimony, if Jordan was the music major(I'm thinking taller with light colored hair, said he was working this summer at a Christian camp)than yes, it was him I am talking about. I was so shocked by what I thought I heard, I asked the woman next to me if that was what he said and she confirmed it. But, as I have agreed to here, mine is just one of the reports.
!!!!! If that's what was said, OMG! All I heard was that they had oral sex "Bill Clinton term", as one of the defense lawyers said, I don't know all of their names. He stated that after explaining the details of the night when he drove down from Springdale (which was odd to me). I did not hear anything that even insinuated that. I might have missed it, but that's one detail one wouldn't easily forget, imo. The thing is, after the first day of testimony, I had a completely different thought of Nona, and we haven't had the chance yet to hear of Kevin's "dark side." But of course, these boys were involved in the case in a small extent anyway.

[lorettalockhorn]

I mentioned this in several of my posts. As far as the sex conversations go, Nona was no better than Kevin in this aspect, we have already learned this. IMO, it would have almost sounded more believable, in my own opinion, if Kevin had just stated that he and Nona were still close friends, but didn't have much of a relationship anymore. The actuality of a relationship between the two has pretty much been shot down. I feel like the reason Kevin explained to LE that they were "very exclusive" is because at that moment, when he saw her dead, he truly did love her and felt that they would possibly marry someday. But as far as a relationship between the two according to any "normal, common" standards, neither of them held it in high regards. I missed the part about an occurence in a music room at ATU. Was this Jordan during his testimony? I heard the whole thing, but sure as heck didn't hear anything like that at all! (Insert surprised reaction smilie here)

I guess I find it interesting that if each side wants to prove infidelity by both Kevin and Nona, that one side or the other would be denied first hand accounts to be presented to the jury. Kevin might have been better served to have described his relationship with Nona as "friends with benefits" rather than as very exclusive. I wonder if this was a delusion that came home to roost that day; maybe he mentioned a proposal to Nona, maybe she scorned him, maybe that was the reason for the tremendous amount of rage that caused her murder.

At any rate, Kevin sounds like a liar about the relationship as well as other things.

Cannot believe that I haven't heard about any music room sex either. Y'all have to quit going to the Little Girls' Room.

[jonikay]

!!!!! If that's what was said, OMG! All I heard was that they had oral sex "Bill Clinton term", as one of the defense lawyers said, I don't know all of their names. He stated that after explaining the details of the night when he drove down from Springdale (which was odd to me). I did not hear anything that even insinuated that. I might have missed it, but that's one detail one wouldn't easily forget, imo. The thing is, after the first day of testimony, I had a completely different thought of Nona, and we haven't had the chance yet to hear of Kevin's "dark side." But of course, these boys were involved in the case in a small extent anyway.
They must have been brave souls bc the music rooms are almost always occupied, students coming in and out to practice, even at night. The scandal!!!

[jonikay]

I guess I find it interesting that if each side wants to prove infidelity by both Kevin and Nona, that one side or the other would be denied first hand accounts to be presented to the jury. Kevin might have been better served to have described his relationship with Nona as "friends with benefits" rather than as very exclusive. I wonder if this was a delusion that came home to roost that day; maybe he mentioned a proposal to Nona, maybe she scorned him, maybe that was the reason for the tremendous amount of rage that caused her murder.

At any rate, Kevin sounds like a liar about the relationship as well as other things.

Cannot believe that I haven't heard about any music room sex either. Y'all have to quit going to the Little Girls' Room.
I didn't, lo. Not at all the first day. I wonder if the roles were reversed, if Nona would have described the relationship as Kevin did. She would have been lying too. Nona was obviously very secretive. Her other boys didn't know about her pageantry or Kevin.

[lorettalockhorn]

I didn't, lo. Not at all the first day. I wonder if the roles were reversed, if Nona would have described the relationship as Kevin did. She would have been lying too. Nona was obviously very secretive. Her other boys didn't know about her pageantry or Kevin.

Dunno. I can't help but wonder if Nona was seriously considering marrying him.

[FDInLaw]

I do not understand this comment/reaction. All the witnesses so far are the prosecution's. (Well, except the one defense expert that had to go out of order). It is those witnesses testifying to Jones behavoir, character and whereabouts. We have seen several hours of a voluntary interview of Jones. He did not know he was being filmed so I would think the several times he was left alone his behavior would have been genuine. So far all we know that was "bad" about him was he had sex with at least one, maybe more people other than Nona. But we know that about her as well. Just as that is no reason for her murder, it is not a reason for him to be wrongfully convicted.
The defense also managed to have any talk of Kevin's admitted drug use suppressed (or am I wrong here?). From my limited experience in the field, it's not uncommon for substance abusers to exhibit an indifferent and self-centered mentality which in time can result in the person during things they would have never done prier. If Kevin has issues here I think this information is pertinent regarding his state of mind. I understand that it's the defenses best interest to paint Kevin as the good home town kid. . . and there is a part of his life that looks like this. However, as I have mentioned before, like other kids his age there is a side kept from mommy and daddy. In the quest for the truth, I don't see how presenting Kevin as something he is not, and suppressing pertinent information is going to help. . . so, yeah, it frustrates me. I do realize it's just part of the defense doing their job, they don't want the jury to know their client very well and with good reason. JMO

[sololobo]

Dunno. I can't help but wonder if Nona was seriously considering marrying him.

"When Carol was asked why she listed Jones as her daughter’s fiance in the obituary, she stated that Nona told her in September that they were discussing marriage."

http://www.atkinschronicle.com/4-5newsa.htm

Carol Dipert seemed to think so.

[beachbum]

Back a few months ago there was something in the newspaper mentioned about the RPD checking the area for camera's to see if KJ vehicle was seen in the Inglewood area. Has anything else been presented about this. Since we haven't really heard about his where abouts in the 11 to 12 time period, if he ran errands in Russellville or to local businesses, its possible he could have been on camera's somewhere in town.(too late if RPD didn't check this out with his alibi) A lot of businesses are using camera's for security. Exactly what type of errands did he run for his gma and to where?

[lorettalockhorn]

The defense also managed to have any talk of Kevin's admitted drug use suppressed (or am I wrong here?). From my limited experience in the field, it's not uncommon for substance abusers to exhibit an indifferent and self-centered mentality which in time can result in the person during things they would have never done prier. If Kevin has issues here I think this information is pertinent regarding his state of mind. I understand that it's the defenses best interest to paint Kevin as the good home town kid. . . and there is a part of his life that looks like this. However, as I have mentioned before, like other kids his age there is a side kept from mommy and daddy. In the quest for the truth, I don't see how presenting Kevin as something he is not, and suppressing pertinent information is going to help. . . so, yeah, it frustrates me. I do realize it's just part of the defense doing their job, they don't want the jury to know their client very well and with good reason. JMO

If I was on the jury and I was desperately searching my heart to understand how it was possible that KJ could have been the perp, and there was an acquittal, and then I read that the issue of drug use had been suppressed, I would be royally POed. Especially since Kevin volunteered that information to LE.

[lorettalockhorn]

"When Carol was asked why she listed Jones as her daughter’s fiance in the obituary, she stated that Nona told her in September that they were discussing marriage."

http://www.atkinschronicle.com/4-5newsa.htm

Carol Dipert seemed to think so.

I will agree with other characterizations that Nona was secretive. I wonder if she was seriously considering marriage to Kevin or if she was just going along with any conversations on the subject.

[FDInLaw]

Back a few months ago there was something in the newspaper mentioned about the RPD checking the area for camera's to see if KJ vehicle was seen in the Inglewood area. Has anything else been presented about this. Since we haven't really heard about his where abouts in the 11 to 12 time period, if he ran errands in Russellville or to local businesses, its possible he could have been on camera's somewhere in town.(too late if RPD didn't check this out with his alibi) A lot of businesses are using camera's for security. Exactly what type of errands did he run for his gma and to where?
I don't have an answer, just want to say. . .

Welcome to the board!
:seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

Back a few months ago there was something in the newspaper mentioned about the RPD checking the area for camera's to see if KJ vehicle was seen in the Inglewood area. Has anything else been presented about this. Since we haven't really heard about his where abouts in the 11 to 12 time period, if he ran errands in Russellville or to local businesses, its possible he could have been on camera's somewhere in town.(too late if RPD didn't check this out with his alibi) A lot of businesses are using camera's for security. Exactly what type of errands did he run for his gma and to where?

I believe that one of his errands was to go to the bank. One of the very early exhibit documents listed Arvest bank photos. Don't know which branch, but there is one near Rose Drug Store on the corner of Inglewood and West Main Place(?). Marva workshop was another stopping off point.

[FDInLaw]

I didn't, lo. Not at all the first day. I wonder if the roles were reversed, if Nona would have described the relationship as Kevin did. She would have been lying too. Nona was obviously very secretive. Her other boys didn't know about her pageantry or Kevin.I must have missed something. . . the other boys testified that they did not know about her being in pageants or about her relationship with Kevin?

[beachbum]

I don't have an answer, just want to say. . .

Welcome to the board!
:seeya:


Thanks for the welcome!

[christina]

I didn't, lo. Not at all the first day. I wonder if the roles were reversed, if Nona would have described the relationship as Kevin did. She would have been lying too. Nona was obviously very secretive. Her other boys didn't know about her pageantry or Kevin.

Next time you are there-please ask someone else in the courtroom if they heard that. I just asked the woman next to me. I will ask someone random next week as well. Not anyone in the Jones or Dirksmeyer group. Wouldn't it be funny if we ask each other- that would break the anonymity!
You make some good points here.

[christina]

Not that Nona was "the wrong girl," but in that moment, when they were taking his cell phone and fingerprinting him . . . even if Kevin did it, Trey was probably so scared and wondered why or how he ever got thrown into it all, like "who'da thunk it?"

Remember York was the only one when questioned/interviewed, Jones included, that showed up with a lawyer in tow. And again showed up when testifying this week with a lawyer.

[sololobo]

The defense also managed to have any talk of Kevin's admitted drug use suppressed (or am I wrong here?). From my limited experience in the field, it's not uncommon for substance abusers to exhibit an indifferent and self-centered mentality which in time can result in the person during things they would have never done prier. If Kevin has issues here I think this information is pertinent regarding his state of mind. I understand that it's the defenses best interest to paint Kevin as the good home town kid. . . and there is a part of his life that looks like this. However, as I have mentioned before, like other kids his age there is a side kept from mommy and daddy. In the quest for the truth, I don't see how presenting Kevin as something he is not, and suppressing pertinent information is going to help. . . so, yeah, it frustrates me. I do realize it's just part of the defense doing their job, they don't want the jury to know their client very well and with good reason. JMO

"Patterson ruled the statement could be entered into evidence Monday afternoon. At the request of the defense, prosecutors excised Jones’ statements about using marijuana and other drugs, Gibbons said Monday."

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15331&Search=dirksmeyer

"Gibbons told Patterson he wasn’t aware of the motion prior to Monday morning, but had been in contact with defense attorneys over their concerns about Jones’ statements to police about using drugs.
“We said we’d take that out [of the video shown to jurors],” Gibbons said. “The smoking weed and the Adderall and all that stuff.”
Adderall is an amphetamine commonly prescribed to treat attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, according to the product Web site, but numerous news reports indicate abuse of the drug is on the rise at college campuses."

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15314&Search=dirksmeyer

Experimenting with marijuana is not uncommon among youth. I am unaware of any studies correlating occasional marijuana use with higher murder rates.

Adderall is prescribed for attention deficit disorder and is often requested as a prescription by college students for use as a study aid. Jones use of these must have been so insignificant, even Gibbons agreed to delete mention of it.

[christina]

The defense also managed to have any talk of Kevin's admitted drug use suppressed (or am I wrong here?). From my limited experience in the field, it's not uncommon for substance abusers to exhibit an indifferent and self-centered mentality which in time can result in the person during things they would have never done prier. If Kevin has issues here I think this information is pertinent regarding his state of mind. I understand that it's the defenses best interest to paint Kevin as the good home town kid. . . and there is a part of his life that looks like this. However, as I have mentioned before, like other kids his age there is a side kept from mommy and daddy. In the quest for the truth, I don't see how presenting Kevin as something he is not, and suppressing pertinent information is going to help. . . so, yeah, it frustrates me. I do realize it's just part of the defense doing their job, they don't want the jury to know their client very well and with good reason. JMO

Nona's family considered him part of their family and could not imagine he would do such a thing(according to a published interview with Carol Dipert). They had been around him, as had their daughter, for quite a while and quite often. They were in a small town where activities are not just reported but spread in the coffee shops. I have no problem believing these kids were far from angels, but that is quite a leap from there to murderers?

We have only heard a little of the argument to keep Kevin's drug use out from the jury. From that little bit, I can not tell what, when or how the prosecution has that information. In the taped voluntary interview on the night of the murder(played in fornt of the jury), when asked to describe Nona, Jones says she would never do drugs or alcohol. When asked how he knew that for sure, Jones tells of an incident where Nona came to visit him in Fayetteville where his friends offered her some drugs and she refused. When asked if he did drugs he says yes. So the defendent himself has admitted it and the jury has seen it.

Its the bolded sections(my doing) that I do not understand. What information do you have that is contrary to what has been presented?

[christina]

I must have missed something. . . the other boys testified that they did not know about her being in pageants or about her relationship with Kevin?

That is correct.

[christina]

It is my opinion that the clothes could have been forcibly or voluntarily removed. It is not an issue in the case as far as I know, so it isn't something I've thought about much. I do think that her socks could have stayed on either way, though. Maybe she was on her way to take a shower and was in a hurry??? It seems that she was always scared of being alone at night. I gather this from testimony that she asked at least a few guys to do so. I know it has already been established, but it is weird that you could see through her sliding door, yet she left all her clothes downstairs after taking a shower upstairs. It also seems weird to me that it has become the norm for us, me included (!!!) to discuss everyday occurences of people involved in this case. I guess that's what happens when it becomes an issue in a murder. I had another thought last night, and it's just a thought . . . Let's just say that Trey York had absolutely nothing to do with this murder at all, that it's just a coincidence that he texted her on that fateful day (of course, I'm afraid we'll never know what truly happened) . . . I'll bet he thought "oh sh*t, I got wrapped up in the wrong girl . . . " It seems that she had so many boys coming in and out of that apartment, that if Kevin didn't do it, it could be any number of them . . .

I was told, and am going to try to follow up in my "spare time" that one of the apartments in the complex was occupied by a sex offender.

[FDInLaw]

"Patterson ruled the statement could be entered into evidence Monday afternoon. At the request of the defense, prosecutors excised Jones’ statements about using marijuana and other drugs, Gibbons said Monday."

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15331&Search=dirksmeyer

"Gibbons told Patterson he wasn’t aware of the motion prior to Monday morning, but had been in contact with defense attorneys over their concerns about Jones’ statements to police about using drugs.
“We said we’d take that out [of the video shown to jurors],” Gibbons said. “The smoking weed and the Adderall and all that stuff.”
Adderall is an amphetamine commonly prescribed to treat attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, according to the product Web site, but numerous news reports indicate abuse of the drug is on the rise at college campuses."

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15314&Search=dirksmeyer

Experimenting with marijuana is not uncommon among youth. I am unaware of any studies correlating occasional marijuana use with higher murder rates.

Adderall is prescribed for attention deficit disorder and is often requested as a prescription by college students for use as a study aid. Jones use of these must have been so insignificant, even Gibbons agreed to delete mention of it.
You're right, the drugs that Kevin has admitted to using are not nearly as serious as some. Don't rule out alcohol abuse and it's effects.

[lorettalockhorn]

You're right, the drugs that Kevin has admitted to using are not nearly as serious as some. Don't rule out alcohol abuse and it's effects.

We've heard the drinking rumors. Do we know how long KJ was taking adderall?

[jonikay]

I was told, and am going to try to follow up in my "spare time" that one of the apartments in the complex was occupied by a sex offender.
Inglewood is also very close to a Russellville elementary school, IIRC. I know sex offenders cannot live within so many feet of a school, but who knows. I'm sure it was possible. That has always been a dark neighborhood, imo. Not trashy, just dark. Inglewood is set in a particularly dark area. I've always thought it would be scary to live there.

[FDInLaw]

I was told, and am going to try to follow up in my "spare time" that one of the apartments in the complex was occupied by a sex offender.
I just checked family watch dog and there was not one. . . but it's been a year and a half. :shrug:

[lorettalockhorn]

I just checked family watch dog and there was not one. . . but it's been a year and a half. :shrug:

I checked another site, back then and found no registered sex offenders nearby. Probably due to the proximity to Sequoia Elementary. She should have received notification if that had been the case. And surely the defense would have asked the apartment manager if she was aware of any offenders living in the complex.

[christina]

I checked another site, back then and found no registered sex offenders nearby. Probably due to the proximity to Sequoia Elementary. She should have received notification if that had been the case. And surely the defense would have asked the apartment manager if she was aware of any offenders living in the complex.

Can one of you tell me where I can check the discovery list?
I was told his name is Williams(Frank maybe). He is supposedly on a discovery list from early on as a witness. He was living with his girlfriend who was renting an apartment there. He was just featured in the Courier on the most wanted list.
I remember when the murder was first reported, Williams was interviewed on camera which is the reason I am half way believing this.

[FDInLaw]

Nona's family considered him part of their family and could not imagine he would do such a thing(according to a published interview with Carol Dipert). They had been around him, as had their daughter, for quite a while and quite often. They were in a small town where activities are not just reported but spread in the coffee shops. I have no problem believing these kids were far from angels, but that is quite a leap from there to murderers?

We have only heard a little of the argument to keep Kevin's drug use out from the jury. From that little bit, I can not tell what, when or how the prosecution has that information. In the taped voluntary interview on the night of the murder(played in fornt of the jury), when asked to describe Nona, Jones says she would never do drugs or alcohol. When asked how he knew that for sure, Jones tells of an incident where Nona came to visit him in Fayetteville where his friends offered her some drugs and she refused. When asked if he did drugs he says yes. So the defendent himself has admitted it and the jury has seen it.

Its the bolded sections(my doing) that I do not understand. What information do you have that is contrary to what has been presented? I don't think Kevin's extracurricular activities make him a murderer, nor do I think the jury would jump to that conclusion. . . but I do think that lying to LE about his relationship with Nona is pertinent as well as his substance abuse. This is just my opinion and obviously the judge does not agree with me.

[lorettalockhorn]

Can one of you tell me where I can check the discovery list?
I was told his name is Williams(Frank maybe). He is supposedly on a discovery list from early on as a witness. He was living with his girlfriend who was renting an apartment there. He was just featured in the Courier on the most wanted list.
I remember when the murder was first reported, Williams was interviewed on camera which is the reason I am half way believing this.

I don't find a Frank Williams at this site:

http://www.acic.org/Registration/index.htm

Didn't find a Williams on the Courier Most Wanted.

[lorettalockhorn]

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF POPE COUNTY, ARKANSAS
CRIMINAL DIVISION
STATE OF ARKANSAS
t z
V. CASE Nft CR4006491
KEVIN JONES ISFENDANT .
: no
MOTION FOR DISCOVERY
I- rn
The defendant, by and through B. Kenneth Johnson, Attorney at Law, oves foascotvery pursuant to the Arkansas Rules of Criminal Procedure and the due process and fair trial provisions
of the Sixth and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitutions of the United States and Art. 2, § 8 & 10 of the Constitution of the State of Arkansas whether the information sought is in the possession of the Prosecuting Attorney, ACIC, NCIC, Arkansas State Crime Lab, a Drug Task Force, or any other police or law enforcement agency (Ark. K. Crim, P. 17.3). Accordingly, the State should provide the following:
1. The names and addresses of persons whom the state intends to call as witnesses at any bearing or trial sufficiently in advance of that hearing or trial to permit preparation. Ark. K Crim. P. 17.1(a)(i).
2. Any written or recorded statements or the substance of any oral statements made by defendant or a codefendant or a potential codefendant or any one given legal or de facto immunity to provide information or testimony. Ark, K. Crim. P. 17.1(a)(ii). This includes statements intended to be used as admissions. A.R.E. 801(d),
3. Any reports or statements of experts in this case, including the results of any physical or mental examinations, scientific tests, experiments, or comparisons. Ark. K. Crim. P. 17.1 (a)(iv).
I
4, Any books, papers, documents, computer records, photograph, videotapes, or tangible objects, including any recreations, whether computer generated animations or whatever, which the state intends to use at any hearing or trial in this case or which were obtained from or belong to the defendant. Ark. R. Crim. P. l7l(a)(v).
5. Further, the state should provide similar disclosure of anything that it does not intend use at any hearing or trial in this case because its non-use indicates a great potential that it is Brady material. See Brady and its progeny, cited infra,
(a) Defendant specificalLy requests production of the notes of the officers from which reports in the file were produced. Those notes commonly include infonnation about leads that did not pan out and people talked to that may have known something else.
(b) The State must make a specific request for production of these notes from the officers because it will not be in an “open file,” and a discovery response that merely directs defense counsel to come and copy their file does not comply with this request.
6. Any record of any person who may be called as a witness at any stage of this proceeding whether presently known or capable of being ascertained of prior:
(a) convictions, by an ACIC or NCIC check, or otherwise. Ark. R. Crhu. P 17. l(a)(vij.
(b) juvenile adjudications that would be admissible for impeachment if committed by an adult. A.R.E. 609(d).
7. Any inducements, promises of leniency, consideration (fmancial or otherwise) or anything else that is potential impeachment evidence against a confidential informant or any other
2
witness, Ark. R. Crim. P. 17.1(b)(ili), (d); Brady v. Maryland, 373 U.S. 83 (1963); Kyles v. Whitley, 514 U.S. 419 (1995); Strickler v. Greene, 527 U.S. 263 (1999); Banks v. Dretke, 124 S. Ct. 1256 (2004); Arkansas Rules of Professional Conduct, Rule 3.8(d), including any written or oral agreements or any documentary evidence concerning an informant or “eooperating individual” that:
(a) provides for leniency, protection from arrest, prosecution, or asset forfeiture, sentencing recommendations, or anything of the kind from any past, present, or future criminal acts;
(b) provides for payment of anything of value for his or her services including proof of payment, iRS 1099s for their payments, and the informants tax returns;
(c) proof or summaries of the payments to the informant;
(ci) any psychiatric or drug rehabilitation history of informants,
8. The relationship between the state and any witness the state will call as a witness; e.g., employee of any governmental entity, informant status, witness in this or another case, a defendant or former defendant in a criminal case in municipal, circuit, or federal court, Ark. R. Crim. P. 17.1 (b)(iii).
9. Whether there has been any electronic (including audio, video, or digital) surveillance or recording of conversations or actions of the defendant (including surreptitious recordings of defendant while in a police interview room or on the street), statements from his or her premises, copying of &niail or similar electronic transmissions, consented to by one party to the conversation or not; Ark. R. Crim. P. l7.l(b)(ii); along with a description of the recordings and copies of any transcripts, whether these are directly based on this charge or surveillance preceding defendant’s arrest.
3

Bump for Christina

[lorettalockhorn]

10. As toy searches and seizures:
(a) Disclose and permit inspection, copying, or photocopying of documents of any material or computer or computer-like memory, disks, or hard drives concerning any searches and seizures of the defendant or his or her property or statements that he or she allegedly made. Ark. R. Crim. P. 17,1(c). Copying of computer disks and hard drives requires copying “invisible” files that are not visible on the directory but which are still present on disks.
(b) If a search warrant was relied upon, provide a copy of: (1) the warrant, (ii) all materials used to obtain the warrant, and (iii) the inventory.
(e) If inventory search may be relied on as a justification for the search, please provide the police department’s policy on conducting inventory searches, because it is the stat&s burden to justify the search.
(d) My video or audio of the occurrence (see ¶ 9, supra).
11. As to impeachment (“Brady”) evidence:
(a) Any other evidence or thing in the knowledge of, possession, or control of the state (Ark. R. Crim. P. 17,3) or its agents which tends to negate the guilt of the defendant as to the offense charged (including anything which tends to impeach a state’s witness) or would tend to reduce the punishment for the offense. Ark. R. Crim. P. 17.1(d); Brady “. Maryland, supra; Kyles v. W’hitley, supra; Strickler v. Greene, supra; Banh v. Dretke, supra; Arkansas Rules of Professional Conduct Rule 3.8(d).
(b) Impeachment evidence includes statements of witnesses where they are even slightly inconsistent ip their versions of events from one statement to the next (oral statement
4
to written; two written statements; etc.) or that they were given consideration or a reward. Strickler v. Greene, supra; Kyles v. Whitley, 514 U.S. at 452 (even if statements of not all witnesses are impeachable); Banks v. Dretke, supra (withheld information about reward to witness was impeachment material and required reversal of conviction); United States v. Sudikoff 36 F. Supp. 2d 1196 (CD. Cal. 1999).
(c) This includes any evidence that anyone else was at one time considered a suspect in this case. Fairchild v. Lockhar4 PB-C43472 (E.D.Arkj.
(d) The prosecuting attorney has a duty to inquire of the police to be certain that all potentially discoverable “Brady” material has been discovered, provided to the prosecutor by the police, and disclosed. Kyles, 514 U.S. at 43738 (Brady includes material known by the police and not prosecutor; “the individual prosecutor has a duty to learn of any favorable evidence known to others acting an the government’s behalf in this case, including the police”). An “open file” does not relieve the state of its obligation to specifically disclose impeachment material. Kyles v. Whitley, supra; Banks v. Dre:ke, supra.
(e) Negative evidence; e.g., as the result of any type of scientific test that failed to connect the defendant to the crime such as absence of fingerprints, physical, or serological evidence or presence of such evidence of another. Patler v. Slayton, 503 F.2d 472 (4th Cit 1974).
(f) The fact that a witness has testified falsely even in an unrelated case. United States v. Masri, 547 F.2d 932 (5th Cir, 1977).
12. Any 404(b) evidence; A.R.E. 404(b); which the state intends to or may use against the defendant,
5 13. Any evidence which could be used in the punishment phase against the defendant under Ark. Code Ann. § 16-97-103.
14, While it goes without saying that parties have a continuing duty to disclose material that comes into the party’s hands after a previous disclosure (Ark, R. Crim. P. 19.2), defendant reasserts this right.
Respectfully Submitted,
KEVIN JONES
BY: i 2
KENNETH JOHtON - 69039
Attorney at Law
Post Office Box 885
Monticello, AR 71657
(870) 460-9500
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I, B. Kenneth Johnson, do hereby certifS’ that a true and correct copy of the above and foregoing MOTION has been served upon:
David Gibbons
Prosecuting Attorney
P.O. Box 3080
Russellville, AR 72811
by United States mail, postage pre-paid, on this _____ day of 2006.
1
B. Kenneth J6’n

Hope this is what you're looking for

[JR2007]

Don't want to argue either. Can you share an example of a statement made by the defense that has no factual value?
1. Made this statement to Laura Brown about the moving of the Lamp shade, as if it was moved to frame KJ, when he knew all along why it was move.
2. To Danny V. You can't remember the grade you made on a test but you can remember what Nona wore the day she was murdered. Implying Danny's a liar.

My Personal observation--I can't remember one test score I personally made in school but I can remember
that we had an old male teacher that came back from the bath room every day with wet spots on his slacks from where he wet himself. You remember things that stand out and give you a reason to remember them.

3. I believe this was asked of Frost. Why were more prints of other people not taken. Inferring that the LE was trying to frame KJ again. When Bristow knew that the other prints found at the scene, other then those of KJ were partial prints and not suitable for computer comparisons.
4. Bristow called Frost unfair and impartial.

I wonder what would happen if Frost made a statement like, he thought that Bristow and the defense team were planting erroneous evidence. Which I personally believe could happen.

There are many more which I would have to look up again. These are all statement to make it sound like it's LE's fault that she is dead not KJ's. In other words we all know that OJ killed Nicole and got away with it by taking the light off of him and placing it on the LE.

All JUST MY OPINION.

[christina]

[QUOTE=JR2007;8909777]1. Made this statement to Laura Brown about the moving of the Lamp shade, as if it was moved to frame KJ, when he knew all along why it was move.
2. To Danny V. You can't remember the grade you made on a test but you can remember what Nona wore the day she was murdered. Implying Danny's a liar.

My Personal observation--I can't remember one test score I personally made in school but I can remember
that we had an old male teacher that came back from the bath room every day with wet spots on his slacks from where he wet himself. You remember things that stand out and give you a reason to remember them.

3. I believe this was asked of Frost. Why were more prints of other people not taken. Inferring that the LE was trying to frame KJ again. When Bristow knew that the other prints found at the scene, other then those of KJ were partial prints and not suitable for computer comparisons.
4. Bristow called Frost unfair and impartial.

I wonder what would happen if Frost made a statement like, he thought that Bristow and the defense team were planting erroneous evidence. Which I personally believe could happen.

There are many more which I would have to look up again. These are all statement to make it sound like it's LE's fault that she is dead not KJ's. In other words we all know that OJ killed Nicole and got away with it by taking the light off of him and placing it on the LE.

All JUST MY OPINION.[/QUOT

I think I see the points you are making here. It sounds as if you have spent some time in the courtroom during the trial. Have you? And if so, do you think Jones is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? What is your read on the jury?

[christina]

Hope this is what you're looking for

Thank you Loretta. Were you able to access the most wanted list on the Courier website?

[JR2007]

His hands and entire body were phtotgraphed that night when he was first taken to the police station. There were no signs of bruising, scrapes or anything resembling a struggle.
The officer testified he was sitting on the stairs at the apartment talking with Jones when Jones pounded his fist into the stairs. The officer asked him to stop and he did. That was during the same time the officer asked if he could have Jones' cell phone and testified Jones said sure and handed it to him right then.
During the voluntary interview(the prosecutioin has not inroduced the interrogation tapes), while alone and crying, Jones pounded his fist into the back of the chair he was sitting in.

If KJ can kick and punch the wall with his fist and not leave any marks that anyone saw, while photographing him at the police station later, wouldn't it show that he good beat the sh*t out of a soft young lady with out getting much of a mark on his hand also.

[christina]

I don't think Kevin's extracurricular activities make him a murderer, nor do I think the jury would jump to that conclusion. . . but I do think that lying to LE about his relationship with Nona is pertinent as well as his substance abuse. This is just my opinion and obviously the judge does not agree with me.

I see what you are saying. No doubt drugs play a role in most crimes and someone's involvement with them could be relevant. Can you be more specific in how he lied to law enforcement about their relationship? Are you referring to him saying they were exclusive during his voluntary interview the night of the murder?

[Lyndi5]

I can perhaps see where the other guys Nona was involved with did not know about Kevin but them not knowing about the pageants seems unusual to me. Nona may have wanted to keep those aspects of her life a secret but with pageants there would be the popularity and newspaper articles and pictures so that would be a tough secret to keep in my opinion and almost not worth the effort. Something else I have thought about is just about everywhere you go you can find people up to no good especially in the college setting and they might be friendly and offer up a lot to get you involved with their activities and when you come to the point where you know what has gone on is wrong and you want out it could possibly cause problems in your life. I am in no way saying this is what happened with Kevin or Nona but it does happen.

[hawgustusgloop]

Do we know for a fact that Kevin even knew about other relationships? Maybe the thought should be considered that he didn't know about Nona's other relationships at all, and truly thought things were exclusive. A one time sexual tryst with someone, be it hard for some to forgive ( dang sure would be for me ) does not mean that person doesn't love the other. Once might be forgivable, second time there would be no third chance for it to occur. It occurs all the time in a lot of relationships.

Kevin could not have possibly "truly thought things were exclusive," because exclusivity in a relationship is a mutual thing. It wasn't exclusive on his end, which he certainly knew, so he couldn't have thought their relationship was exclusive.

[hawgustusgloop]

Here we are again at that generation gap.... what we would define as exclusive and what they define is totally different. :shrug: JMO

Since I'm apparently too old to get it, please enlighten me as to what people in their late teens/early twenties define as "exclusive," because I would like to understand.

[FDInLaw]

I see what you are saying. No doubt drugs play a role in most crimes and someone's involvement with them could be relevant. Can you be more specific in how he lied to law enforcement about their relationship? Are you referring to him saying they were exclusive during his voluntary interview the night of the murder?
Yes, and that he only cheated on her once.

[hudnala]

Can someone help me out here. In the courier it states for the fingernail found, by the defense, " The DNA was exclussive of Jones." what does that mean. Does that mean it is his fingernail or it is not his fingernail? :confused:

[sololobo]

Since I'm apparently too old to get it, please enlighten me as to what people in their late teens/early twenties define as "exclusive," because I would like to understand.

The only definition that is important is Jones' definition. Were they exclusive in their love for one another, or had they taken vows of fidelity, etc.?

[al38]

Remember York was the only one when questioned/interviewed, Jones included, that showed up with a lawyer in tow. And again showed up when testifying this week with a lawyer.

That is interesting. Do you think the police checked to see if York had a record? In Ashdown or anywhere else.

[sololobo]

Can someone help me out here. In the courier it states for the fingernail found, by the defense, " The DNA was exclussive of Jones." what does that mean. Does that mean it is his fingernail or it is not his fingernail? :confused:

The DNA excluded Jones as the source. It wasn't his.

[chambord]

The DNA excluded Jones as the source. It wasn't his.


If I were on the jury, the fact that a fingernail was found at the scene, and not identified, would loom a big question in my mind.

jmo

[sololobo]

If I were on the jury, the fact that a fingernail was found at the scene, and not identified, would loom a big question in my mind.

jmo

And it was a torn fingernail.

[lorettalockhorn]

Remember York was the only one when questioned/interviewed, Jones included, that showed up with a lawyer in tow. And again showed up when testifying this week with a lawyer.

Your point? Maybe York and his attorney realized early on that a desperate defense might need to cast suspicion elsewhere in order to attain the reasonable doubt that is required for acquittal. Having an attorneypresent doesn't indicate anything. I know that my attorney would more than likely insist on being nearby to answer any questions that I might have. The term counselor-at-law has a fatherly connotation to it.

[hudnala]

I don't know for a fact, al, but I gonna guess no, probably not considering the sort of police work done elsewhere on this case.


Does anyone know if the fingernail was tested for York? Something about his whole story just seems strange.

[lorettalockhorn]

Sololobo Experimenting with marijuana is not uncommon among youth. I am unaware of any studies correlating occasional marijuana use with higher murder rates.

Adderall is prescribed for attention deficit disorder and is often requested as a prescription by college students for use as a study aid. Jones use of these must have been so insignificant, even Gibbons agreed to delete mention of it.

Adderall can have some pretty nasty side effects:

http://www.myomancy.com/2006/07/adderall_side_e.html

There are many sources to read about Adderall, and it is not recommended to combine adderall and alcohol.

[lorettalockhorn]

Yes a bank stop was another, which I believe bank slips were provided, but I believe he went to lunch then Marva's, then bank, then back to gas station to help out for a while. Dunno which bank.

I think it was actually beachbum who asked the question about his errands. I'm told that KJ did indeed have an account at Arvest Bank.

[lorettalockhorn]

And it was a torn fingernail.


A fingernail could be torn in any number of ways. Honestly, I would find it stranger if it was a clipped nail; that would be making yourself way too much at home.

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't know for a fact, al, but I gonna guess no, probably not considering the sort of police work done elsewhere on this case.

Even if RPD didn't do a background check, I would think that the defense would have and it would have been exposed during York's testimony. Then again, the defense didn't examine the apartment manager's knowledge of a rumor (the guy that Christina mentioned) that a registered sex offender lived in the apartments. So that would constitute (up to this point), two missed opportunities to cast reasonable doubt.

[lorettalockhorn]

But if he were innocent, why would he feel the need to have one present? No one else did...


Maybe he didn't feel the need; maybe he has an overly paternalistic attorney such as I do. Do you know who it was? Maybe it was mine!

[sololobo]

Adderall can have some pretty nasty side effects:

http://www.myomancy.com/2006/07/adderall_side_e.html

There are many sources to read about Adderall, and it is not recommended to combine adderall and alcohol.


Headaches, insomnia, and loss of appetite are the major side effects. Coffee has the same side effects on me:) This drug is prescribed to grade school children and to my knowledge, has not been correlated to increased murder rates.

[lorettalockhorn]

Headaches, insomnia, and loss of appetite are the major side effects. Coffee has the same side effects on me:) This drug is prescribed to grade school children and to my knowledge, has not been correlated to increased murder rates.

From that particular link:

Other Long Term Health Risks
In addition to trial data, longitudinal studies and individual reports by doctors have indicated other Adderall side effects.

Psychosis is a generic psychiatric term for a mental state in which thought and perception are severely impaired. Persons experiencing a psychotic episode may experience hallucinations. Amphetamines (one of Adderall ingredients) have been known to amplify exisiting psychosis. It is unclear if long term usage will cause psychosis in a previously healthy patient.

There are many, many sites to read about the contraindications of adderall., also the effects when combined with alcohol, which is not recommended.

[TJEddie]

I'm a little late to the party here, but I've been keeping up for the past several days and have done some backreading. There are a few things that bother me about Trey York....

1) Cleaning up a "spill" in his car is included in his timeline. Having a freshly cleaned spot in your car right after a murder might just be a coincidence, but did the police check this out? What was spilled, where in the car, what was it cleaned with, was there any residue, etc.?

2) The whole "returning a cake pan" thing seems a bit contrived to me. It's plausible, of course, but seems a bit out of character for a college-age boy to be concerned about such a thing, IMO. And the "never mind" call at 1pm seems almost to have been planted there.....a convenient indicator that he did NOT see Nona that day.

3) 100+ text messages in Nov. and 80+ text messages in the first 2 weeks of Dec. sounds like a lot of contact to me.....especially when Trey claims he had cut things off with Nona because he felt she was "using" him. Was he still feeling "used"?

4) What's with that business about using a friend's phone to call Walker back because he didn't recognize the phone number? The call interested him enough that he wanted to call back, but he didn't want it on HIS phone. Why not? And then records of the call couldn't be found. And then he changed his story altogether and said he didn't find out about Nona's death until the next day.

5) And then there's that lawyer thing that christina and others have already pointed out.

Forgive me if these things have already been hashed and rehashed!

[lorettalockhorn]

That's ludicrous. A torn fingernail found at the crime scene after some major actions to kill Nona took place, and you don't find it at all odd or think remotely that it could have come from the killer during the tirade?

Why is it ludicrous? Sure it could have come from a tirade, but was Nona's DNA found on it? Isn't if just as likely that it came from someone helping Nona with a chore? Helping her to move in, moving furniture, dumping the litter box, etc.?

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm a little late to the party here, but I've been keeping up for the past several days and have done some backreading. There are a few things that bother me about Trey York....

1) Cleaning up a "spill" in his car is included in his timeline. Having a freshly cleaned spot in your car right after a murder might just be a coincidence, but did the police check this out? What was spilled, where in the car, what was it cleaned with, was there any residue, etc.?

2) The whole "returning a cake pan" thing seems a bit contrived to me. It's plausible, of course, but seems a bit out of character for a college-age boy to be concerned about such a thing, IMO. And the "never mind" call at 1pm seems almost to have been planted there.....a convenient indicator that he did NOT see Nona that day.

3) 100+ text messages in Nov. and 80+ text messages in the first 2 weeks of Dec. sounds like a lot of contact to me.....especially when Trey claims he had cut things off with Nona because he felt she was "using" him. Was he still feeling "used"?

4) What's with that business about using a friend's phone to call Walker back because he didn't recognize the phone number? The call interested him enough that he wanted to call back, but he didn't want it on HIS phone. Why not? And then records of the call couldn't be found. And then he changed his story altogether and said he didn't find out about Nona's death until the next day.

5) And then there's that lawyer thing that christina and others have already pointed out.

Forgive me if these things have already been hashed and rehashed!

Hey there!

1) Don't know about the spill; haven't heard if Frost was questioned about his investigation of York or the spill. Likely it wasn't looked at. But who knows?

2) Maybe he didn't want to have Nona's cakepan, maybe he wanted to be rid of obligations to Nona such as being in possession of her property. If he was leaving town, he might have run out of time to return the pan, hence the never mind. But who knows?

3) I believe that he testified that Nona texted him and he answered her; maybe he was being polite? That seems like an incredible amount of texting to me, but they could have been very short messages. It wasn't specified by The Courier accounts if he ever initiated communications with Nona. But who knows?

4) I don't think that anything was resolved about the telephone calls. Surely the defense will cover the issue when York appears as a witness. I think there will be every attempt to clarify!

If someone knows the answer to my who knows questions, help us out here.

[lorettalockhorn]

LOL KJ had no known history of psychosis. It is not saying it CAUSES psychosis. It is saying it increases episodes in persons known to have mental problems.

http://www.healthcenter.txstate.edu/healthed/atod/od_adderall.htm

What are the long-term effects?
The long-term effects of abusing Adderall can include:

Stunted growth


Psychotic episodes


Heart complications, such as a weakened heart


Physical and psychological dependence


Withdrawal symptoms
Fatigue


Depression


Disturbance of sleep patterns


http://orient.bowdoin.edu/orient/article.php?date=2005-10-14&section=3&id=2

Among the short-term adverse physical side effects of Adderall are nausea and vomiting, palpitations, tremors and muscle twitching, dizziness, and headaches. Adverse short-term psychological side effects include paranoia, psychosis, anxiety, and severe depression. If you're taking someone else's Adderall, the dose may not be right for you. Those for whom Adderall is properly prescribed are monitored very carefully for the first few weeks.

There are many, many links available for you to read, probably due to the fact that adderall is so widely used and abused. Here are just a couple for you to look at until you have the time or motivation to read for yourself. The question in some minds is, could the use of adderall in combination with the use of alcohol be partially responsible for Kevin committing the murder without a prior history of violence? To me the answer is yes, it is possible. Then again, we don't know how long he had been prescribed this medication or how much he drinks for instance, and it's not likely that his physician is going to testify since drug use isn't an issue. I think that when the jury is dismissed and if they read about what was kept from them, they might feel duped. JMO

[lorettalockhorn]

That in and of itself is not ludicrous. It is possible, but wouldn't if so, wouldn't it likely also have been vaccumed away? What I find ludircous is that it was found at the murder scene, and you won't even accept the possibility that it may have come from the killer. :shrug: I find it more likely, but then again, we don't think alike at all....

Well, that's true. Until Kevin has an alibi, I am leaning in the direction that he is the killer. That the fingernail could have come from a good samaritan helping Nona with any number of tasks is no more ludicrous than assuming that it came from the "true killer". I have no idea as to how often the apartment was vacuumed or when it was last vacuumed before the murder.

[lorettalockhorn]

Trust me I know about Adderall. Among stimulants, it can be compared to an aspirin, where as street stimulants would be like morphine. Stimulants that are approved for prescription use are no where near what is on the streets-- meth, crank, etc, etc.-- because of the high abuse potential and high chances for addiction. If they were on this level they wouldn't be on the market FDA approved for medical use. Do they have a potential for depedance? Yes but relatively low compared to the aforementioned street drugs, which often lead to permanent psychosis.

But, just for the sake of it, what about all the testimonies of KJ's behaviors in and around the days events-- that he acted completely normally, no suspicious behavior at all? No evidence of even acute psychosis.....

Morphine is a stimulant? Really.

If Adderall is as harmless as aspirin, why is it classified as a controlled substance and sold by prescription only? Since none of us are pharmacological experts, I think that we are all free to draw our armchair conclusions as to what the effects of Adderall, alcohol, marijuana, and who knows what else might have had on KJ's behavior.

[lorettalockhorn]

No, morphine is a central nervous system depressant and pain medication. I did not say it was a stimulant at all. I was making a comparison between the two classifications. For your sake, then I'll say that to coul be compared to a low end Rx. pain med like darvocet instead of aspirin. Except in my analogy morphine is the strongest Rx. pain med available and street drugs like meth are beyound that. You would agree there is a huge difference between darvocet and morphine, right? Darvocet is on the low end of the scale, morphine on the high. Adderall is on the low end of the scale of stimulants and meth is on the high end of stimulants, there is a vast difference between the two.

And yes, it is a controlled substance. I acknowledged such and stated it was due to a minimal abuse potential and dependence level.

Yes, I'm fully aware that morphine is an opiate/analgesic. I was questioning your analogy.

[FDInLaw]

Now, FD, you are a self professed redhead. You have admitted on here many times that your are an Irish redhead.... Are you trying to mislead us or did you change your haircolor?:rolleyes: What? Where have I ever professed to be a redhead? Quote please! :) I have an Irish temper, yes. . . maybe that is what you remember?

[lorettalockhorn]

This suggests you seem to think I was saying it was a stimulant. But that really is neither here nor there. It is a good analogy in comparison for both types of drugs.

Yes, I didn't understand your analogy. IF for instance, I believed that Adderall is harmless, I might have said that Adderall is to cocaine as aspirin is to morphine.

[christina]

Your point? Maybe York and his attorney realized early on that a desperate defense might need to cast suspicion elsewhere in order to attain the reasonable doubt that is required for acquittal. Having an attorneypresent doesn't indicate anything. I know that my attorney would more than likely insist on being nearby to answer any questions that I might have. The term counselor-at-law has a fatherly connotation to it.

My point is that the person the police ultimately chose to arrest/charge, voluntarily went to the police station the night of the murder. (Actually within an hour of finding Nona). He was told he was not under arrest but was read his rights. He was not told he was being filmed. They kept him there for about 4 hours. He asked for his mother and Nona's mother but was not allowed to see either. He freely allowed them to take any photographs of him, he handed his phone over, and told them they could have free access to his car(with all the officers working on this that night, they could have gone to his house and retrieved it right then).
York on the other hand was called in for an interview, did not offer any of these things up(TMK) and showed up with a lawyer.
If we are going to judge by actions- Jones is acting like he has nothing to hide and York is acting like he does.

[christina]

A fingernail could be torn in any number of ways. Honestly, I would find it stranger if it was a clipped nail; that would be making yourself way too much at home.

Good one Loretta, it would bother me to find clipped nails anywhere in my home, especially if they were not from a family member!!
Additional information- we were shown pictures of Jones hands the night of the murder(taken by the police). He bites his nails, they were nothing but nubs.

[christina]

Why is it ludicrous? Sure it could have come from a tirade, but was Nona's DNA found on it? Isn't if just as likely that it came from someone helping Nona with a chore? Helping her to move in, moving furniture, dumping the litter box, etc.?

We know the fingernail was found in the carpet by her head. To me that makes it more suspect.
I asked the officer how big a section of carpet they cut out(I didn't hear that in the courtroom). It was appr. 2 -3 feet around the outline of the body.

[christina]

I'm a little late to the party here, but I've been keeping up for the past several days and have done some backreading. There are a few things that bother me about Trey York....

1) Cleaning up a "spill" in his car is included in his timeline. Having a freshly cleaned spot in your car right after a murder might just be a coincidence, but did the police check this out? What was spilled, where in the car, what was it cleaned with, was there any residue, etc.?

2) The whole "returning a cake pan" thing seems a bit contrived to me. It's plausible, of course, but seems a bit out of character for a college-age boy to be concerned about such a thing, IMO. And the "never mind" call at 1pm seems almost to have been planted there.....a convenient indicator that he did NOT see Nona that day.

3) 100+ text messages in Nov. and 80+ text messages in the first 2 weeks of Dec. sounds like a lot of contact to me.....especially when Trey claims he had cut things off with Nona because he felt she was "using" him. Was he still feeling "used"?

4) What's with that business about using a friend's phone to call Walker back because he didn't recognize the phone number? The call interested him enough that he wanted to call back, but he didn't want it on HIS phone. Why not? And then records of the call couldn't be found. And then he changed his story altogether and said he didn't find out about Nona's death until the next day.

5) And then there's that lawyer thing that christina and others have already pointed out.

Forgive me if these things have already been hashed and rehashed!

The spill in the car was brought out by the prosecution to set a timeline for what York did that day. He was their witness and they were using him to set Nona's time of death. But they opened the door to quesitons the defense would be allowed in cross examination by asking about his relationship with Nona. I find the returning of the cake pan as neutral, a bit contrived sounding but possible.
The text messages are excessive in my opinion. He also testified she came over to his dorm room about 2 nights a week. York's story was that Nona aske dhimt o spend the night at her apartment, they kissed but nothing more. When asked why they weren't "hanging out" as much any more, York said he felt she used him to get a good grade in biology. But cell records show they were still text messaging as much.
In Jones voluntary interview, he says Nona told him about a guy she had a class with who had invited her to his dorm room a couple times but she thought he was creepy and she kicked him in the groin when he made a pass at her.
His story of how he heard about Nona's death was completely different from what he told police. This is what got me that first day. Phone records do not back up the story he told police. Nor does the friend he talked with that night.
I will lay bets he pleads the fifth when called by the defense.

[lorettalockhorn]

My point is that the person the police ultimately chose to arrest/charge, voluntarily went to the police station the night of the murder. (Actually within an hour of finding Nona). He was told he was not under arrest but was read his rights. He was not told he was being filmed. They kept him there for about 4 hours. He asked for his mother and Nona's mother but was not allowed to see either. He freely allowed them to take any photographs of him, he handed his phone over, and told them they could have free access to his car(with all the officers working on this that night, they could have gone to his house and retrieved it right then).
York on the other hand was called in for an interview, did not offer any of these things up(TMK) and showed up with a lawyer.
If we are going to judge by actions- Jones is acting like he has nothing to hide and York is acting like he does.


It is not unusual for rights to be read to any one giving a statement. Kevin should have known from watching L&O that only juveniles must have an adult present during questioning and should have expected that the interview would be recorded. I have never heard that any of the people questioned in the case, including suspects were uncooperative or refused to hand over any items. I also don't recall reading anywhere but in this thread that York had a lawyer in tow during his interview or in court. I've asked who his attorney was, but no one seems to know. It is certainly not unusual for some attorneys to insist on accompanying a client to an interview, especially if they feel that a defense will at some point be looking for minimally a reasonable doubt and maximally a scapegoat.

I know very little of York, just what I've read here and in the media. Maybe those of you in the know and who have reason to believe that he may be guilty will enlighten me, including helping me find verification that he had an attorney with him while giving a statement and while testifying. Not that I find that unusual at this point. Maybe he's the perp; hard to say since most of has have little information to share about him with regard to opportunity and motive. (I haven't made a timeline for him!)

[lorettalockhorn]

We know the fingernail was found in the carpet by her head. To me that makes it more suspect.
I asked the officer how big a section of carpet they cut out(I didn't hear that in the courtroom). It was appr. 2 -3 feet around the outline of the body.

I thought that I read that it was a 10X10 section.

Good one Loretta, it would bother me to find clipped nails anywhere in my home, especially if they were not from a family member!!
Additional information- we were shown pictures of Jones hands the night of the murder(taken by the police). He bites his nails, they were nothing but nubs.

Ewww Don't want to watch someone clip their nails. Uh uh. No way. Nailbiters make me kinda nervous. I always wonder why they're so nervous and why they never outgrew the habit or don't force themselves to stop.

[lorettalockhorn]

The spill in the car was brought out by the prosecution to set a timeline for what York did that day. He was their witness and they were using him to set Nona's time of death. But they opened the door to quesitons the defense would be allowed in cross examination by asking about his relationship with Nona. I find the returning of the cake pan as neutral, a bit contrived sounding but possible.
The text messages are excessive in my opinion. He also testified she came over to his dorm room about 2 nights a week. York's story was that Nona aske dhimt o spend the night at her apartment, they kissed but nothing more. When asked why they weren't "hanging out" as much any more, York said he felt she used him to get a good grade in biology. But cell records show they were still text messaging as much.
In Jones voluntary interview, he says Nona told him about a guy she had a class with who had invited her to his dorm room a couple times but she thought he was creepy and she kicked him in the groin when he made a pass at her.
His story of how he heard about Nona's death was completely different from what he told police. This is what got me that first day. Phone records do not back up the story he told police. Nor does the friend he talked with that night.
I will lay bets he pleads the fifth when called by the defense.

Now that would be something.

[hawgustusgloop]

Well, really it is so early in the case. Trey's preparedness for the questioning stuck out. The defense really tried to nail him, as would I. Trey said he texted Nona at 11:04 to give her a cake pan and again at 12:58 to tell her nevermind bc he was on his way home to Ashdown. The defense went over billing statements and asked him why there were Texarkana numbers on his phone if he was in Ashdown, T said bc most numbers in Ashdown have Tex area codes. The defense kept asking him where he was at 10:04 and he said that he was sitting in the hall at Dean (ATU) studying for his 10:30 final. SO, the defense brings out the billing document, apparently different from a billing statement, and says that it shows that he texted Nona at 1004 and not at 1104, he said that couldn't be, bc he was where he said he was. The defense had no further questions. Short prosecutor (name escapes me, no offense, though) asks Trey if he is familiar with a billing document, if he'd ever seen one before. He said no. The pros asked him if he was aware that the billing docs are sent through California and reflect Eastern Standard Time and Trey said no. Short pros cleared up that the billing doc is EST. Also, the defense showed him a pic of Nona's car, silver mustang, and asked him what he drove, also a silver mustang. Defense said, "so you can easily get the two mixed up. It would be hard to tell a diff bw the two cars, Trey said no. Older body style mustangs look COMPLETELY different from newer models and Trey explained the diffs thoroughly. I was impressed with the way he handled the badgering.

I am confused here. Jonikay's post above, from the first day of testimony, makes it seem like Trey York did a decent job on the stand, even when the defense attorneys really tried to nail him. Then, we have other accounts that have him coming off as so incredibly suspicious that he should be the one on trial, and that he is likely to plead the Fifth. Some described his testimony as "full of loopholes" or as outright lies.

Which one is it? I wonder what the jury's perception is of Trey York, since theirs is the only one that really counts?

[Mark501]

It does seem that Trey York had some loose ends according to what I've read here but keep in mind he has a high "Red Herring" factor which favors the defense.

501

[beachbum]

I am afraid Kevin's idea of an exclusive relationship was different from Nona's
idea of exclusive. Do you all think she was ready to settle with one guy. She was so young and had so much going for her like her education and pageants I just wonder if she was still thinking of marriage?

[hawgustusgloop]

Lorettalockhorn, will you clean out your PM box? TIA.

[beachbum]

Can you explain a little further? BOTH kids slept around, so I am not sure what you were trying o say. KJ had one known eperience. Nona had many.


I just wondered if she might have turned him down that day with possibly a proposal and it sparked a rage in him when she said no. Remember he kept saying he was going to purpose that night. Maybe he had been watching her and seeing she had more visitors than him and he felt like he should go ahead and propose because he could be about to lose her and the more involved in pageants and school she got the further away it might have pushed him away from her.

[lorettalockhorn]

Lorettalockhorn, will you clean out your PM box? TIA.


Yes, oh yes I will.

[hudnala]

The spill in the car was brought out by the prosecution to set a timeline for what York did that day. He was their witness and they were using him to set Nona's time of death. But they opened the door to quesitons the defense would be allowed in cross examination by asking about his relationship with Nona. I find the returning of the cake pan as neutral, a bit contrived sounding but possible.
The text messages are excessive in my opinion. He also testified she came over to his dorm room about 2 nights a week. York's story was that Nona aske dhimt o spend the night at her apartment, they kissed but nothing more. When asked why they weren't "hanging out" as much any more, York said he felt she used him to get a good grade in biology. But cell records show they were still text messaging as much.
In Jones voluntary interview, he says Nona told him about a guy she had a class with who had invited her to his dorm room a couple times but she thought he was creepy and she kicked him in the groin when he made a pass at her.
His story of how he heard about Nona's death was completely different from what he told police. This is what got me that first day. Phone records do not back up the story he told police. Nor does the friend he talked with that night.
I will lay bets he pleads the fifth when called by the defense.

I agree on all points.
Also the whole taking the test at 830 and being at the donut shop by 9?! I dont think so.

He was running errands and stuff between 11-1 just like KJ.

The whole cake pan thing. Here is my take on it.

He shows up at Nona's around 11 does the deed, takes the cake pan with half a cake out of the kitchen, that is how her blood got on the oven door, because he would had her blood on him. He then takes the pan and the cake and leaves, that way *if* anyone sees him(OBVIOUSLY NO ONE DID) his excuse for visiting her was to get cake.... Later he tells the police she made him a cake and he wanted to give her back the pan, becasue he HAS TO EXPLAIN WHY HE HAS HER CAKEPAN. Maybe my mind works in overdrive.

I also think he made the 1 p.m. call because he KNEW she would never get the message. Kind of narssastic of him.

[lorettalockhorn]

Can you explain a little further? BOTH kids slept around, so I am not sure what you were trying o say. KJ had one known eperience. Nona had many.

Are we talking sexual experiences or partners? Has someone done an audit? So far we've had JH testify to having a sexual relationship with Nona. And the ME's testimony proves that she had had sex with KJ recent to her murder. Did I miss something? KJ admitted to police that he had another partner besides Nona (during the interview) and there is apparently another woman whose testimony won't be heard. And of course, his relationship with Nona herself.

Did I fall asleep at the wheel or something?

[jonikay]

Trey York's testimony . . . at least, confusing. I took it as the defense's attempt to make him flop and it would have made me flop, I'll bet. Sometimes it is very, very difficult to understand everything that is going on during a testimony, his particularly. When he got on the stand, I never thought that he was questionable in the mind of the defense and so I didn't take that perception of the testimony. I figured after awhile of intense questioning by the defense, they were trying to make him look like a liar and I took everything he said in a way that made him think that it has been a while, he has completed A LOT of school since then (he will graduate in 3 years instead of 4, geology major), and he couldn't remember every detail and he didn't want to make something up that he didn't remember so he would just say, "I don't remember." A few of the kids did this Tuesday, like Sara Bailey and Danny Vallee. Also, it is my strong feeling that Nona was very scared to stay by herself at night. She asked both Jordan and Trey to stay the night with her. I don't feel as though Trey or Jordan were ones that Nona feared. I guess that still doesn't mean he didn't do this, though.
The cake pan . . . Trey testified that Nona gave him half a cake that her mother had made for her and took it to his dorm. It was "pack day" at ATU, all dorms had to be empty. If not, all stuff left in the dorms becomes property of ATU. Maybe Trey wanted to give Nona her mother's cake pan back, otherwise she'd never get it and he probably didn't want to take it home. Being that Nona was quite the "texter," when she didn't text back in 3 hours, he figured he'd hit the road. He saw that he had her cake pan and he called her to return it. I don't see anything suspicious in that, but that's just imo. Also, I saw Mrs. Dipert shaking her head "yes" during the cake pan part of the testimony, as if she remembered, but I could have just been imagining things. Maybe she'll testify about the cake pan and say she doesn't know what Trey is talking about.
KJ's "relationships" . . . Even his good buddy, RW stated that there were "times" that he knew of Kevin cheating. I don't suppose RW is lying about that, do any of ya'll. I highly doubt that either KJ or Nona thought highly of their relationship, considering what has been brought up or almost brought up in this case.

[TJEddie]

I agree on all points.
Also the whole taking the test at 830 and being at the donut shop by 9?! I dont think so.

He was running errands and stuff between 11-1 just like KJ.

The whole cake pan thing. Here is my take on it.

He shows up at Nona's around 11 does the deed, takes the cake pan with half a cake out of the kitchen, that is how her blood got on the oven door, because he would had her blood on him. He then takes the pan and the cake and leaves, that way *if* anyone sees him(OBVIOUSLY NO ONE DID) his excuse for visiting her was to get cake.... Later he tells the police she made him a cake and he wanted to give her back the pan, becasue he HAS TO EXPLAIN WHY HE HAS HER CAKEPAN. Maybe my mind works in overdrive.

I also think he made the 1 p.m. call because he KNEW she would never get the message. Kind of narssastic of him.

Your mind and mine work alot alike, hudnala. I would add one thing....I think it's possible he lied about when he cleaned up that "spill" in his car. As you noted, the killer would have had blood on him that would have likely transfered to the car. An obviously clean or damp spot would be noticed if police had checked his car, so he added that odd detail to his timeline to cover himself. I think the 1 pm "nevermind" message could have been an attempt to document that he had not seen Nona.

Your take on the cake pan is certainly an interesting one, and it does address that otherwise odd blood smear on the oven. A half eaten cake pan would likely have a knife sitting in it, too....a good way to carry a bloody knife from the scene without looking suspicious. (I'm assuming the knife seen on the counter was NOT bloody....that was never mentioned.)

Yeah, our minds may be in overdrive, but it sure seems like the police let alot slip away on this one.

[TJEddie]

jonikay, about this "pack day".....are you saying that students had to completely move out of the dorm just to go home for Christmas? The rooms aren't their's for the whole school year?

[lorettalockhorn]

I agree on all points.
Also the whole taking the test at 830 and being at the donut shop by 9?! I dont think so.

He was running errands and stuff between 11-1 just like KJ.

The whole cake pan thing. Here is my take on it.

He shows up at Nona's around 11 does the deed, takes the cake pan with half a cake out of the kitchen, that is how her blood got on the oven door, because he would had her blood on him. He then takes the pan and the cake and leaves, that way *if* anyone sees him(OBVIOUSLY NO ONE DID) his excuse for visiting her was to get cake.... Later he tells the police she made him a cake and he wanted to give her back the pan, becasue he HAS TO EXPLAIN WHY HE HAS HER CAKEPAN. Maybe my mind works in overdrive.

I also think he made the 1 p.m. call because he KNEW she would never get the message. Kind of narssastic of him.

Interesting theory about the cake pan/oven thing. Did he know that the cake was in the oven before he got there or did he just luck into that?

Re: the test time. My husband is a prof at Tech and if he is assigned an 8am test time, he gives the students the option of not showing up until later; that's not unusual. What I do find odd, is that Trey could arrive at 8:30 and be finished with a Biology exam (yikes!) and at Paradise Donuts at around 9am. But hey, he sounds like he is an extremely good student.

[lorettalockhorn]

jonikay, about this "pack day".....are you saying that students had to completely move out of the dorm just to go home for Christmas? The rooms aren't their's for the whole school year?

I believe that is correct; my housekeeper is also a janitor at Tech and over the holidays is when maintenance is performed in the dorms.

[sololobo]

http://www.healthcenter.txstate.edu/healthed/atod/od_adderall.htm

What are the long-term effects?
The long-term effects of abusing Adderall can include:

Stunted growth


Psychotic episodes


Heart complications, such as a weakened heart


Physical and psychological dependence


Withdrawal symptoms
Fatigue


Depression


Disturbance of sleep patterns


http://orient.bowdoin.edu/orient/article.php?date=2005-10-14&section=3&id=2

Among the short-term adverse physical side effects of Adderall are nausea and vomiting, palpitations, tremors and muscle twitching, dizziness, and headaches. Adverse short-term psychological side effects include paranoia, psychosis, anxiety, and severe depression. If you're taking someone else's Adderall, the dose may not be right for you. Those for whom Adderall is properly prescribed are monitored very carefully for the first few weeks.

There are many, many links available for you to read, probably due to the fact that adderall is so widely used and abused. Here are just a couple for you to look at until you have the time or motivation to read for yourself. The question in some minds is, could the use of adderall in combination with the use of alcohol be partially responsible for Kevin committing the murder without a prior history of violence? To me the answer is yes, it is possible. Then again, we don't know how long he had been prescribed this medication or how much he drinks for instance, and it's not likely that his physician is going to testify since drug use isn't an issue. I think that when the jury is dismissed and if they read about what was kept from them, they might feel duped. JMO

I have heard nothing about Jones drinking or downing Adderall that day. And I really don't believe Adderall will turn anyone into a drug-crazed, homicidal maniac. If so, perhaps grade school chrildren should not be using it....or at the very least, make sure our grade schools have no floor lamps.

Gibbons thought his drug use so insignificant, he agreed not to mention it and I think the jury would feel the same.

[sololobo]

I believe that is correct; my housekeeper is also a janitor at Tech and over the holidays is when maintenance is performed in the dorms.

It would be the end of the semester and tuition and dorms are paid by the semester.

[lorettalockhorn]

I have heard nothing about Jones drinking or downing Adderall that day. And I really don't believe Adderall will turn anyone into a drug-crazed, homicidal maniac. If so, perhaps grade school chrildren should not be using it....or at the very least, make sure our grade schools have no floor lamps.

Gibbons thought his drug use so insignificant, he agreed not to mention it and I think the jury would feel the same.

I believe Adderall is taken once per day.

I haven't heard anything about him having had any alcohol that day either. As for the safety of Adderall and its long term effects, I think the jury is still out. I wouldn't give it to my child, but of course many parents do.

Im not saying that Adderall did turn KJ into a drug-crazed, homicidal maniac, I'm just saying that it is a possiblity that when/if the jury finds out that KJ does drugs, they may feel like they didn't have all of the information. Like I said earlier, if I was trying to make the decision myself, I would want all of the information. And Gibbons has made more than one mistake in this case.

[lorettalockhorn]

It would be the end of the semester and tuition and dorms are paid by the semester.

I think that TJEddie was asking the question about why he was moving out of the dorm. (I'm more familiar with Tech's policies than I care to be!)

[jonikay]

All three of the students that were present for Nona's bio final were finished within 30 minutes . . . IIRC, they each said that it took 20-30 minutes. Also, some finals are kind of "blow-offs" if you know what I mean. Many profs or teachers give you an easy quiz so that it can up your grade. Lo, if your husband isn't one of those profs, then :tongue: ! I could have very well had the pleasure of taking one of his classes . . .

[lorettalockhorn]

All three of the students that were present for Nona's bio final were finished within 30 minutes . . . IIRC, they each said that it took 20-30 minutes. Also, some finals are kind of "blow-offs" if you know what I mean. Many profs or teachers give you an easy quiz so that it can up your grade. Lo, if your husband isn't one of those profs, then :tongue: ! I could have very well had the pleasure of taking one of his classes . . .

Well, like you said, TY is apparently a good student. And since the others finished quickly, it may have been an easy test.

Um well, I took a class from Leroy about a hundred years ago. The final (in fact none of his tests!) could be described as a blow off. :flamemad:

[FDInLaw]

Are we talking sexual experiences or partners? Has someone done an audit? So far we've had JH testify to having a sexual relationship with Nona. And the ME's testimony proves that she had had sex with KJ recent to her murder. Did I miss something? KJ admitted to police that he had another partner besides Nona (during the interview) and there is apparently another woman whose testimony won't be heard. And of course, his relationship with Nona herself.

Did I fall asleep at the wheel or something?No, your not sleeping. . . Kevin has had more than two partners. Sarah Bailey testified that Nona knew Kevin had cheated on her so she did the same in retaliation (or something to that effect).

[hudnala]

Interesting theory about the cake pan/oven thing. Did he know that the cake was in the oven before he got there or did he just luck into that?

Re: the test time. My husband is a prof at Tech and if he is assigned an 8am test time, he gives the students the option of not showing up until later; that's not unusual. What I do find odd, is that Trey could arrive at 8:30 and be finished with a Biology exam (yikes!) and at Paradise Donuts at around 9am. But hey, he sounds like he is an extremely good student.

In my theroy, he does not know before hand about the cake. I believe after he does the deed he goes to the kitchen probably not believing himself what he just did. He goes to the kitchen realizing he is going to have to cover some tracks in case someone sees him. He sees the half a cake on top of the oven, (how I leave mine out) and takes it with him. Brushes agains the oven and leaves her blood. The killer had to have spent time in there. Staging things. I do not believe whoever did it that it was premeditatied. I believe it was something that got out of hand, rejection maybe. There is so much we do not know. I really wish I did not have a job, I would love to sit through the trial.

Also agree with the poster about the spill in his auto....

[hudnala]

Your mind and mine work alot alike, hudnala. I would add one thing....I think it's possible he lied about when he cleaned up that "spill" in his car. As you noted, the killer would have had blood on him that would have likely transfered to the car. An obviously clean or damp spot would be noticed if police had checked his car, so he added that odd detail to his timeline to cover himself. I think the 1 pm "nevermind" message could have been an attempt to document that he had not seen Nona.

Your take on the cake pan is certainly an interesting one, and it does address that otherwise odd blood smear on the oven. A half eaten cake pan would likely have a knife sitting in it, too....a good way to carry a bloody knife from the scene without looking suspicious. (I'm assuming the knife seen on the counter was NOT bloody....that was never mentioned.)

Yeah, our minds may be in overdrive, but it sure seems like the police let alot slip away on this one.


Kind of scary that someone thinks like I do. Is your favortie t.v. program "The First 48" on A&E?.....;) Totally agree about the "spill" in the auto....

[hoglover]

From reading all the posts, and they are some mighty good ones I might add, I don't believe Trey did this to Nona. IMO of course! I believe the defense will definitely throw the suspicion his way.

I also believe that a perfect question to ask Nona's mother would be "Was there a cake to even have a cake pan?" ? Maybe she might remember this! Hmmm......

I will go with the idea of it being clean out day on this one!

Who will be on the stand first thing tomorrow?

MOO

[FDInLaw]

Nothing would suprise me in this case. However, Chelsea was apparently at school in Conway during the murder, according to her parents. However, it's strange to me that she was the ONLY person (as far as I know) interviewed by the cops that had a lawyer during the initial interviews. Supposedly, it's because her parents don't trust the cops. Interesting, eh? It makes a person wonder how much she knows..... Was this statement ever confirmed? Maybe York was not the only scared kid with a lawyer.

[lorettalockhorn]

Was this statement ever confirmed? Maybe York was not the only scared kid with a lawyer.


Did York have an attorney or is it a rumor. This board is the only place that I've read it, but I haven't seen a quote or a link.

Wonder how many people took lie detector tests?

[beachbum]

Just some of KJ actions are fishy. If he was so worried about her why didn't he go to her apt. himself earlier in the day. Why wait til after 6 pm if you have been trying for hours to get in touch with her? If I was really worried about someone and couldn't get in touch with them, I would have headed that way with the first thought that something was wrong. Didn't she usally call him back after receiving calls from him or text messages? Upon their arrival and finding Nona, I would suspect that common sense would have told you she was dead and not in shock. I have been with several people when they have passed away and you can tell when life has gone out of them. Their color changes pretty quickly. I know the lightening was dim and could have been a factor. If he watched CSI as I have read that he did, common sense would have told him not to touch anything---maybe check for a pulse, but not get on top of her body to try to keep her warm, this is a crime scene. JMO.

He said he was going to propose to her that night. When was this supposed to happen if he was going to Christmas party with his mom and she was to take her "little Sister" out for a while? Wouldn't you think he would want to pick a perfect evening to do that--more romantic evening than spending 1/2 the night with your mom?

[FDInLaw]

Just some of KJ actions are fishy. If he was so worried about her why didn't he go to her apt. himself earlier in the day. Why wait til after 6 pm if you have been trying for hours to get in touch with her? If I was really worried about someone and couldn't get in touch with them, I would have headed that way with the first thought that something was wrong. Didn't she usally call him back after receiving calls from him or text messages? Upon their arrival and finding Nona, I would suspect that common sense would have told you she was dead and not in shock. I have been with several people when they have passed away and you can tell when life has gone out of them. Their color changes pretty quickly. I know the lightening was dim and could have been a factor. If he watched CSI as I have read that he did, common sense would have told him not to touch anything---maybe check for a pulse, but not get on top of her body to try to keep her warm, this is a crime scene. JMO.

He said he was going to propose to her that night. When was this supposed to happen if he was going to Christmas party with his mom and she was to take her "little Sister" out for a while? Wouldn't you think he would want to pick a perfect evening to do that--more romantic evening than spending 1/2 the night with your mom?
This is my theory on Kevin's behavior. . . I really wonder if Kevin made the "I was going to propose tonight" remark just to get attention and to make the officer feel sorry for him. At the police station the severity of the situation and his need to be careful about what he stated probably hit. At that point he probably back tracked a little. Like you, I don't believe he was planning to propose that night. Is there any evidence of this that has been presented? If he was going to propose wouldn't there be some physical evidence? Did his parents or any friends know about his plans? I don't want to be mean or slander the poor kid but I do seriously wonder if Kevin is a bit of a habitual liar. :( There are just too many inconsistencies. Whether or not he killed Nona is another thing.

[hudnala]

Did York have an attorney or is it a rumor. This board is the only place that I've read it, but I haven't seen a quote or a link.

Wonder how many people took lie detector tests?

I wonder about that too. But dont forget there is a reason why lie detector test are not admisable in court....

[lorettalockhorn]

Just some of KJ actions are fishy. If he was so worried about her why didn't he go to her apt. himself earlier in the day. Why wait til after 6 pm if you have been trying for hours to get in touch with her? If I was really worried about someone and couldn't get in touch with them, I would have headed that way with the first thought that something was wrong. Didn't she usally call him back after receiving calls from him or text messages? Upon their arrival and finding Nona, I would suspect that common sense would have told you she was dead and not in shock. I have been with several people when they have passed away and you can tell when life has gone out of them. Their color changes pretty quickly. I know the lightening was dim and could have been a factor. If he watched CSI as I have read that he did, common sense would have told him not to touch anything---maybe check for a pulse, but not get on top of her body to try to keep her warm, this is a crime scene. JMO.

He said he was going to propose to her that night. When was this supposed to happen if he was going to Christmas party with his mom and she was to take her "little Sister" out for a while? Wouldn't you think he would want to pick a perfect evening to do that--more romantic evening than spending 1/2 the night with your mom?

That is why I wonder if he planned to go to party with mom all along. I always thought that it seemed contrived somehow that he would escort her instead of his father and drive his father's truck.

FD, I believe that Brent Hunnicutt(sp), who is on the D witness list is a jewelry store employee; maybe he will testify that KJ was shopping for the ring.

[lorettalockhorn]

I wonder about that too. But dont forget there is a reason why lie detector test are not admisable in court....


I'm aware that they aren't admissible, I'd just like to know how many people took them. I believe that it was reported that only one person failed a test.

[hawgustusgloop]

I'm aware that they aren't admissible, I'd just like to know how many people took them. I believe that it was reported that only one person failed a test.

SusieQ said she had some kind of inside info that K.Jo was not the person who failed.






But I don't believe it!

[sololobo]

The only two big names left on the Prosecution's witness list is Janice Jones and Duane Dipert. I wonder if they will indeed testify?

The UA student and professor hasn't been called yet either. I wonder where Gibbons is going with that?

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15313&Search=dirksmeyer

[christina]

I was told by law enforcement he had one for the interview and had one pointed out to me while he was waiting in the hall before testifying.

[christina]

I know it is hard/frustrating for those of you who can not attend the trial. You have the Courier and other papers to read and then you have some first hand accounts. Since all 3 first hand accounts have expressed whether they think Jones is guilty or innocent- you know our bias. With the papers, you do not. I turned the radio on this weekend and heard Johnny Story give a news report on the trial saying they would have noon updates! So they must have someone in the courtroom also.
Then I hunted down a website for the local weekly paper in Dover and they have a reporter there also. Here is the link-

http://www.atkinschronicle.com/dover1.pdf

I assume(I know, I know) that the radio will be on all their channels, I was just listening to 100.9.

Well, the prosecution finishes up today. I am looking to see if they bring a motive forward. I will try to report when the closing arguments are so those that if any of you can only make one day-that might be the one! Like me, only going for opening statements and stayed all week. My family and work have paid the price! Luckily my family loves me :)

[christina]

I have wondered how much of the evidence will be made public after the trial. Will we get all our rumors validated, like who took and who failed lie detectors? If it is a hung jury I imagine none will be released pending a possible future trial. But if aquitted- I would like the opportunity to see more of the "behind the scenes" evidence. Something had to convince the police to go after Jones. As yet, in court, I have not seen it. The only thing I can figure(yes, assume) is they had the most obvious suspect- Jones, and the squirrly suspect- York. They fingerprinted both. So when the results of all the fingerprints came back and the only match they had was Jones on the light bulb- they went that direction and did not look back. All the rest of what has been shown in court is circumstantial.
And they made that decision about Jones less than 7 days after the murder. So the rest of the time was spent trying to validate their assumption.

[hudnala]

I'm aware that they aren't admissible, I'd just like to know how many people took them. I believe that it was reported that only one person failed a test.

My bad! Do you know who failed the test given?

[lorettalockhorn]

I was told by law enforcement he had one for the interview and had one pointed out to me while he was waiting in the hall before testifying.

Really? So you seem to be the only one (who I "know") outside the gag order who knows this. Very interesssstink. *strokes beard*

Honestly, I cannot believe that if it is so meaningful, that LE didn't focus their investigation on York and that it's not all over town. Now, I'm really curious to know who the attorney is. If you see your source again, could you ask? Enquiring minds want to know.

[lorettalockhorn]

My bad! Do you know who failed the test given?


I'm clueless. (Which is why I wonder.) I think that SQ has the inside track on that information; she has posted that she knows for a fact that KJ did not fail.

[hawgustusgloop]

Here are two different posters giving opposite responses:

I had just heard that he was NOT the one that failed it. I mean either way, polygraphs aren't admissable in court. So, the fact that it is on the evidence list does not merely suggest he failed it to me. :shrug:

Kevin failed the polygraph, but there has not been an "official" statement made by the press regarding this and I certainly don't expect you to take my word for it.

:seeya:

Whom do you believe? I know who I think is more credible.

[hawgustusgloop]

The only two big names left on the Prosecution's witness list is Janice Jones and Duane Dipert. I wonder if they will indeed testify?

The UA student and professor hasn't been called yet either. I wonder where Gibbons is going with that?

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15313&Search=dirksmeyer

I guess their testimony could be for just about anything. Maybe even something along these lines:


This is a totally random theory, but (if he's guilty, of course) I think that something else (and I have no idea what) must have been going on with Kevin at the time. I don't know him or know anything about him, but my best guess would be that Golden Boy Kevin was flunking out of school. He went from being Golden Boy Kevin back in Dover to being Nobody McGee in Fayetteville. Maybe he hadn't told his parents or Nona yet, and Nona seemed to be doing so well in her studies and in her life. He might have been struggling with how he was going to tell them, forever shattering his image of Golden Boy Kevin to those who still bought into it. Maybe he just felt his life was really out of control and when he got mad at Nona for some reason, all of his frustrations and anger came to the surface and he exploded.

It's just a thought to keep the conversation going. What do y'all think?


"Just to keep the conversation going," I think you might know more than you realize. I heard KJ was flunking one or more classes in Fayetteville-- Calculus, maybe? I don't remember which one. I heard he got in an argument with his mom about it, who, if you didn't know, she treats KJ like....I don't know....a 5 year old. I think he was doing poorly because he's into drinking and drugs, from what I've heard. I think you're right--the Golden Boy of Dover High to another flunking out druggy in Fayetteville. I think the main reason to go to Fayetteville was to get away from his clinging mother (you know, for the party power). I also heard he was still into drinking and drugs; but I can't understand, though, is why the cops can't seem to catch him doing those.

(from Oct./Nov. 2006)

[FDInLaw]

The authorities said that he failed his polygraph. The newspaper would not print the results because of ethical liabilities. His alibi was shaky in the probable cause statement. Of course, this can be skewed.

>SNIP<

BUMPING. . . VG is talking about Kevin here.

Side note. . . VG was the first person to post that KJ was arrested and obviously has some sort of inside info IMO.

[hawgustusgloop]

Just curious then.... When I went to Tech we, didn't have an either or time to be there. It was one set time. But, 2 or 3 of the others testified the test began at 8am. So, are you saying the class could have been given the option to come in at a later time as well as the regular class time? It really doesn't make sense to have all that coming and going during class time. I can see where the class may have decided on a later time as a whole, but others have already testified that the exam began at 0800. In my day, the instructors would lock the door, and if you weren't to class on time you were SOL. Still yet, the taking of the test and being ALL THE WAY ACROSS town by 9am doesn't make a lot of sense in my mind... :shrug: JMO

What jonikay says is absolutely true. Some professors feel that the coursework completed throughout the semester should be much more significant toward the final grade than one test, or perhaps they want to give the students a little bit of a break during a stressful week. So, they give easy finals that don't take long to complete. Some professors even give students handouts with the questions that will be on the test. I have had teachers say that they would collect all the tests at a certain time, and as long as yours was turned in at that time, you could show up whenever. Other professors require that you show up on time, and they make the final their most difficult exam of the semester. It is completely at the instructor's discretion.

Also, being "ALL THE WAY ACROSS TOWN" in Russellville isn't the same as being all the way across town in, say, Little Rock or even Fort Smith. How far of a drive is it?

[hawgustusgloop]

BUMPING. . . VG is talking about Kevin here.

Side note. . . VG was the first person to post that KJ was arrested and obviously has some sort of inside info IMO.

Yes, I forgot about that gem from ValleyGirl. She is another poster who has been very credible and informative.

[hawgustusgloop]

Certainly does sound like he was a good student, smart in fact. That doesn't make him not a murderer, though. JMO

Maybe, just like some say about K.Jo, he was also too smart to make the stupid mistakes Nona's killer made, so I guess he didn't do it either, right? Maybe the police should start looking harder at the stupid people in her life since they are the only ones capable of making such boneheaded errors?

[TJEddie]

The knife on the counter was sent for analysis the day after the murder occurred. It was not collected till the DAY AFTER. It was thought to have a spot of blood on it which turned out not to be a spot of blood. I am not clear if it was printed or not.

This is interesting. Much has been said about how this was not a planned attack, as the attacker didn't bring a murder weapon, but rather used what was available at the scene. Now I'm wondering about the knife that was used. Maybe the killer brought a knife with the intention of stabbing her/cutting her throat, but was unable to follow through.....and ended up just bashing her over the head to get it over with. That would change the dynamics of the attack.

[hawgustusgloop]

No, you mean you know which side you are on. :lol: That's funny. Who was it that posted that the jeans were found at the scene with underwear inside, and everyone jumped on that person saying no, no we don't know that it hasn't been published yet? The person then retracted so as not to start a fight, who was that? Hmmm.... Might want to :read: that one up....

Please do not try to tell me what I mean. FDInLaw's info has been reliable for the most part, and she has been very consistently rational in her posts for well over a year now on this thread. Also, I have reason to believe some things posted by other people are completely false. It's purely a credibility issue to me, and that is what I meant. FDInLaw has a lot of credibility here IMO.

[hawgustusgloop]

Gee, you are a real whiz..... Is that the only defense you have got against all the new info coming to light? :lol:

No, that was not serious. I thought it was possibly the most idiotic reason I had ever heard when kg** posted it to explain why she thought K.Jo was innocent. I haven't yet seen any "new info coming to light" that would require any defense by anyone, especially me. Your unfounded suspicions of a witness who by reliable accounts did well on the stand don't constitute "new info coming to light" as far as I am concerned.

[lorettalockhorn]

LOL These are good points, solo. Never mind the fact several people have already testified that KJ behavior that day was completely normal. never mind that loretta's research she brought up it exacerbates psychosis in individuals where it already exists. It does say somelthing about acute episodes, but I believe the testimonies of normal behavior kind of opposes that theory. JMO

I don't think that you read the information the same as I did. There are specific references to Adderall causing psyochosis in the bowdain link. I think that I have read that both Adderall and Concerta are both MPH, are they the same drug? At any rate, I'm sure that all patients don't respond the same due to age and other factors. And I assume that your son doesn't drink, smoke marijuana or take any illegal drugs.

I have said more than once that the reason that I ever brought up KJ's drug use, is that I think that the jury might feel duped that they didn't have the complete picture with regard to Kev's character or what may have caused him to murder Nona.

[lorettalockhorn]

Just curious then.... When I went to Tech we, didn't have an either or time to be there. It was one set time. But, 2 or 3 of the others testified the test began at 8am. So, are you saying the class could have been given the option to come in at a later time as well as the regular class time? It really doesn't make sense to have all that coming and going during class time. I can see where the class may have decided on a later time as a whole, but others have already testified that the exam began at 0800. In my day, the instructors would lock the door, and if you weren't to class on time you were SOL. Still yet, the taking of the test and being ALL THE WAY ACROSS town by 9am doesn't make a lot of sense in my mind... :shrug: JMO

As I explained in an earlier post; it is not unusual for a prof to allow students to come in late for an exam, especially when a test is assigned the 8am time slot. Leroy gives that option. I don't see why in the world that if York started the test at 8:30, and finished in twenty minutes, that he couldn't have been at Paradise Donuts around 9am.

[lorettalockhorn]

Certainly does sound like he was a good student, smart in fact. That doesn't make him not a murderer, though. JMO

I think you missed my point. I don't think that he is the murderer. I think that he is a good enough student to have finished the test in twenty minutes. Nothing more.

[lorettalockhorn]

What jonikay says is absolutely true. Some professors feel that the coursework completed throughout the semester should be much more significant toward the final grade than one test, or perhaps they want to give the students a little bit of a break during a stressful week. So, they give easy finals that don't take long to complete. Some professors even give students handouts with the questions that will be on the test. I have had teachers say that they would collect all the tests at a certain time, and as long as yours was turned in at that time, you could show up whenever. Other professors require that you show up on time, and they make the final their most difficult exam of the semester. It is completely at the instructor's discretion.

Also, being "ALL THE WAY ACROSS TOWN" in Russellville isn't the same as being all the way across town in, say, Little Rock or even Fort Smith. How far of a drive is it?

Between one and two miles. Leave Tech, and drive north on Arkansas, past Main Street and PD is on the corner of Arkansas and third street, near the public library. Unless it has moved. I'll check that out while I have a ciggy.

[hawgustusgloop]

Between one and two miles. Leave Tech, and drive north on Arkansas, past Main Street and PD is on the corner of Arkansas and third street, near the public library. Unless it has moved. I'll check that out while I have a ciggy.

Well, if that's where Paradise Donuts is, that isn't even close to being "ALL THE WAY ACROSS TOWN." That's nearby IMO. If that is the case, it sounds like he went somewhere close by to grab some donuts between tests. That's not suspicious at all to me.

[lorettalockhorn]

Well, if that's where Paradise Donuts is, that isn't even close to being "ALL THE WAY ACROSS TOWN." That's nearby IMO. If that is the case, it sounds like he went somewhere close by to grab some donuts between tests. That's not suspicious at all to me.

According to the current phone directory, PD is still at 101 East 3rd. That's about twenty blocks from Tech.

[hawgustusgloop]

According to the current phone directory, PD is still at 101 East 3rd. That's about twenty blocks from Tech.

I wonder why susieQ would characterize that as "ALL THE WAY ACROSS TOWN?"

I didn't know where Paradise Donuts was....when susieQ used that phrase, I was thinking it was either far away toward the other I-40 exit (Exit 84, I think?) or WAY down the road toward Dardanelle. That is what I would consider "ALL THE WAY ACROSS TOWN" from Tech, and it still doesn't take that long to drive to those places.

[TJEddie]

The difficulty of the test and how long it would have taken to complete could easily be checked out by talking to the prof and/or other students. Whether this was done or not by police is unknown. Seems like there were a lot of things in Trey York's story that bore some verification, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that the police followed through on it. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't.

[JR2007]

Between one and two miles. Leave Tech, and drive north on Arkansas, past Main Street and PD is on the corner of Arkansas and third street, near the public library. Unless it has moved. I'll check that out while I have a ciggy.
Sorry Loretta I think you meant to say South on Ark.
It's about 1 mile and takes 3 to 4 minutes in heavy traffic, at 9:00 the traffic is not heavy but can be considerable at times.

[hawgustusgloop]

The difficulty of the test and how long it would have taken to complete could easily be checked out by talking to the prof and/or other students. Whether this was done or not by police is unknown. Seems like there were a lot of things in Trey York's story that bore some verification, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that the police followed through on it. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't.

We haven't heard about it most likely because Trey York is not on trial. The prosecution called him to help lay out the timeline of the last morning of Nona's life, not to present an alibi for himself. I believe the defense intends to call him as their witness as well, so if they intend to cast suspicion upon him, we will probably find out a lot more as to what his alibi is and how well it checked out then.

[JR2007]

Have any of the original facts, that point to KJ, been refuted? I know we haven't heard from granny yet. I wonder if she would lie for KJ ;) and if she did, and was caught at it, would the Prosecution try to get her on perjury charges?

[hawgustusgloop]

Have any of the original facts, that point to KJ, been refuted? I know we haven't heard from granny yet. I wonder if she would lie for KJ ;) and if she did, and was caught at it, would the Prosecution try to get her on perjury charges?

I don't know what Granny K.Jo's story is or how true it may be, but if she was somehow caught perjuring herself, I would hope she would be charged. Otherwise, why tell the undesirable truth under oath if there is no penalty for lying?

[lorettalockhorn]

Sorry Loretta I think you meant to say South on Ark.
It's about 1 mile and takes 3 to 4 minutes in heavy traffic, at 9:00 the traffic is not heavy but can be considerable at times.


I sure did thanks. Originally, I had typed south on North Arkansas. I'm not with the program today!!

[lorettalockhorn]

The difficulty of the test and how long it would have taken to complete could easily be checked out by talking to the prof and/or other students. Whether this was done or not by police is unknown. Seems like there were a lot of things in Trey York's story that bore some verification, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that the police followed through on it. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't.


I believe that someone posted earlier that the other students in that class verified that the test took twenty to thirty minutes to complete and that it may have been a "blow off" exam; just something to fulfill the criteria of a final.

[hawgustusgloop]

Just because some are closely related to the case doesn't make them more credible. It likely means that they are relying on information given by the police and becasue KJ would be the most convenient suspect. IMO, thus far the police's creidbility raises many questions for me, and certainly have not been reliable thus far.

No, it sure doesn't. As I said before, though, FDInLaw has posted here for a long time, and I have personally found her to be credible as a person posting on a message board and as a source of info about this case. She often has the links I am looking for, not just some rumor where she winks and says she can't reveal her source. I am hesitant to rely on the information presented by some others because I have found inconsistencies in their posts about themselves and have reason to believe some of the info they have posted about this case is blatantly untrue. That is my opinion only of the credibility of some posters here. Everyone has the choice here to believe whomever he or she wants, and I am exercising that option.

[hawgustusgloop]

Sorry Loretta I think you meant to say South on Ark.
It's about 1 mile and takes 3 to 4 minutes in heavy traffic, at 9:00 the traffic is not heavy but can be considerable at times.


I think it is a little more than two miles, definitely more than one. Don't forget traffic and lights. Fifteen minutes from Tech to there would not be unusual...

BTW, that pretty much is ALL THE WAY across RSVL. but you should know that since you used to live in the area...

Which is more credible here? These can't both be correct, can they?

[hawgustusgloop]

I think it is a little more than two miles, definitely more than one. Don't forget traffic and lights. Fifteen minutes from Tech to there would not be unusual...

BTW, that pretty much is ALL THE WAY across RSVL. but you should know that since you used to live in the area...

Mapquest says 1.11 miles from Tech and 3 minutes:

http://snipurl.com/1od87

[lorettalockhorn]

I think it is a little more than two miles, definitely more than one. Don't forget traffic and lights. Fifteen minutes from Tech to there would not be unusual...

BTW, that pretty much is ALL THE WAY across RSVL. but you should know that since you used to live in the area...

You might want to google or mapquest it to see for yourself. I believe that there are three stoplights between Tech and PD. The one at Tech is a yeild on right turn type; he could have flown right through it. LOL

[lorettalockhorn]

No, it sure doesn't. As I said before, though, FDInLaw has posted here for a long time, and I have personally found her to be credible as a person posting on a message board and as a source of info about this case. She often has the links I am looking for, not just some rumor where she winks and says she can't reveal her source. I am hesitant to rely on the information presented by some others because I have found inconsistencies in their posts about themselves and have reason to believe some of the info they have posted about this case is blatantly untrue. That is my opinion only of the credibility of some posters here. Everyone has the choice here to believe whomever he or she wants, and I am exercising that option.

Ditto. LOL Ditto is too short to post, so I'll say it twice.

Ditto

[hawgustusgloop]

I think it is a little more than two miles, definitely more than one. Don't forget traffic and lights. Fifteen minutes from Tech to there would not be unusual...

BTW, that pretty much is ALL THE WAY across RSVL. but you should know that since you used to live in the area...

The strange thing is that BECAUSE I used to live there, I was really confused as to why you would say that was "ALL THE WAY across RSVL." I used to attend Tech and lived on a street that I would characterize as "all the way across town," and it was MUCH further down Arkansas from the campus than Paradise Donuts.

[hudnala]

The knife on the counter was sent for analysis the day after the murder occurred. It was not collected till the DAY AFTER. It was thought to have a spot of blood on it which turned out not to be a spot of blood. I am not clear if it was printed or not.


That would support the theory that the killer took the knife with him.....

[hawgustusgloop]

Is that really the best argument you can use thus far against new things coming to light rather than changing your perspectives any to the obvious things that have come about?

????????????????????????????????

I already gave this response.......:

"No, that was not serious. I thought it was possibly the most idiotic reason I had ever heard when kg** posted it to explain why she thought K.Jo was innocent. I haven't yet seen any "new info coming to light" that would require any defense by anyone, especially me. Your unfounded suspicions of a witness who by reliable accounts did well on the stand don't constitute "new info coming to light" as far as I am concerned."


.....To this much more rude version of this reply you posted earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by susieQ
"Gee, you are a real whiz..... Is that the only defense you have got against all the new info coming to light?"

[lorettalockhorn]

That would support the theory that the killer took the knife with him.....

You lost me; if the killer took the knife with him, how did it get back into the apartment?

And while I agree that it was el stupido for LE not to gather the knife as evidence the night of the murder, do we think that it was tampered with? That maybe someone got back inside the apartment?

Help a girl out; I don't seem to be able to get the cobwebs out of my head.

[lorettalockhorn]

Just drove, so I digress on the distance. It is 1.2 mile from the light, not anywhere inside Tech. LOL. I honestly thought it was farther. It took 8 minutes. I was and still am say, from the time you get out of the building and off campus that 15 minutes is not unacceptable. Difference of opinion. Doesn't mean I am a liar....

1.2 miles sounds pretty close to what I came up with using my pinky finger to measure on the map. When I described the route to PD, I never meant to infer that it is inside Tech.

If the test was given in McKever Hall, which is behind the cafeteria, it shouldn't have taken long to get off campus, depending on where he was parked. Like I said, you might not even have to stop at the intersection of North Arkansas and East O Street. It wouldn't have taken long to zip up Arkansas from there.

It's a moot question, since York isn't on trial.

[TJEddie]

You lost me; if the killer took the knife with him, how did it get back into the apartment?

And while I agree that it was el stupido for LE not to gather the knife as evidence the night of the murder, do we think that it was tampered with? That maybe someone got back inside the apartment?

Help a girl out; I don't seem to be able to get the cobwebs out of my head.

After inflicting 17 wounds, the knife used on Nona would have been very bloody....not only the blade, but most likely the handle as well. The knife on the counter was described as having a "spot" of what looked like blood on it, but was later determined not to be blood. If the knife had been washed off, there probably wouldn't have been a spot of something on it.

So was another knife missing from Nona's apartment? If not, I would assume the killer brought his own knife. And, IMO, that would change the entire dynamic of the attack.....planned vs. unplanned.

[lorettalockhorn]

That's agreeable..... However, I can't agree with 3 to 4 minutes. In theory, yes, probably so, but not in reality, plus in my original estimation, I was not just meaning the straight drive. Like I said, it took 8 minutes with traffic and all a little while ago.

I don't know where the three to four minutes came from. Is that what York testified to? The traffic during the time that you just drove is much heavier than it is at 9am in my experience.

[lorettalockhorn]

After inflicting 17 wounds, the knife used on Nona would have been very bloody....not only the blade, but most likely the handle as well. The knife on the counter was described as having a "spot" of what looked like blood on it, but was later determined not to be blood. If the knife had been washed off, there probably wouldn't have been a spot of something on it.

So was another knife missing from Nona's apartment? If not, I would assume the killer brought his own knife. And, IMO, that would change the entire dynamic of the attack.....planned vs. unplanned.

Gotcha.

I'm not entirely convinced that the murder wasn't planned as it is.

[optimumprimal78]

It doesn't take that long to get to paradise donuts. It is about 2 or 3 blocks from the courthouse. When was it said that Nona was killed by knife? You guys are confusing the situation.

[JR2007]

Correct Opti
If you drive 60 mph you will go 1 mile in one minute.
at 30 mph it takes you 2 minutes.
at 15 mph it takes you 4 minutes.
at 7.5 mph ( trot speed) it takes 8 mins.

Stop lights not taken into account.

[JR2007]

I don't know if anyone has posted this or not. I didn't see it anywhere. Monday update.

http://www.couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15393

[christina]

Really? So you seem to be the only one (who I "know") outside the gag order who knows this. Very interesssstink. *strokes beard*

Honestly, I cannot believe that if it is so meaningful, that LE didn't focus their investigation on York and that it's not all over town. Now, I'm really curious to know who the attorney is. If you see your source again, could you ask? Enquiring minds want to know.
It was a quite awhile ago and the officer no longer works for the police department here. I am going to assume it was prior to the gag order!!

[jonikay]

You lost me; if the killer took the knife with him, how did it get back into the apartment?

And while I agree that it was el stupido for LE not to gather the knife as evidence the night of the murder, do we think that it was tampered with? That maybe someone got back inside the apartment?

Help a girl out; I don't seem to be able to get the cobwebs out of my head.

Perhaps someone with a key . . . ok, ok . . . That was just for play. I guess that's enough about the knife. I believe leaving it there was just stupid, but I don't think it was tampered with . . .

[beachbum]

Have they identified the knife on the counter as the knife that Nona was actually cut with or was it just a coincidence? Surely they could tell if it was and if it was someone had to wash it off. Wonder if they checked the drain for blood.

[optimumprimal78]

Correct Opti
If you drive 60 mph you will go 1 mile in one minute.
at 30 mph it takes you 2 minutes.
at 15 mph it takes you 4 minutes.
at 7.5 mph ( trot speed) it takes 8 mins.

Stop lights not taken into account.

If you go from the center of the ATU campus and travel to the Russellville Post Office (which is a little less than a block away from Paradise Donuts), it is approximately 1.5 miles according to Google Maps and Google Earth. It states that it is a 5 minute drive, however, they base their speeds on 55 miles per hour and the speed limit is 35 through downtown Russellville. That would make it a little longer trip when you add in stoplights and traffic.

[FDInLaw]

I don't know if anyone has posted this or not. I didn't see it anywhere. Monday update.

http://www.couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15393 He told the jury that in his opinion, the bloody palm print on the light bulb of the floor lamp was placed at the time of the killing.

This is from the link above. I've heard second hand (and like always please get this confirmed for yourself) that an forensic expert testified today that the bloody print was made with fresh blood and not coagulated blood. This can't be good for Kevin. On Monday we heard that in order for Kevin to make the print from where he straddled the body he would have had to twist his wrist to the point of breaking it or break the light bulb. According to the witness today, not only would it have been difficult for Kevin to make the print on discovery, as Bacon testified, but impossible since the blood present at discovery had enough time to be coagulated. Let's wait and see what the news reports about this.

[optimumprimal78]

So you would agree 8 minutes is a good time?


At the least. I would be more inclined to say 10+. You can't go through Russellville and not hit one of the 4 stoplights in between Tech and Paradise Donuts . And to top it off the time that is usually spent at a light is sometimes too long (1 min+ depending on traffic).

[optimumprimal78]

I think I'll wait for christina's impartial input. She usually tells the whole story and shows the whole picture, including reactions etc. where as the Courier and your source don't seem to do so. But, thanks! :seeya:

Hmmm. You don't have any negative feelings toward FD now do you? What are you going to say if christina says the same thing about the witness?

[hawgustusgloop]

This is from the link above. I've heard second hand (and like always please get this confirmed for yourself) that an forensic expert testified today that the bloody print was made with fresh blood and not coagulated blood. This can't be good for Kevin. On Monday we heard that in order for Kevin to make the print from where he straddled the body he would have had to twist his wrist to the point of breaking it or break the light bulb. According to the witness today, not only would it have been difficult for Kevin to make the print on discovery, as Bacon testified, but impossible since the blood present at discovery had enough time to be coagulated. Let's wait and see what the news reports about this.

Wow! I will be very interested to see the news accounts of this. If this turns out to be true, it looks like the prosecution saved their best for last.

[FDInLaw]

Wow! I will be very interested to see the news accounts of this. If this turns out to be true, it looks like the prosecution saved their best for last.
Maybe Gibbons had a rabbit in his hat after all! :seeya:

[hudnala]

You lost me; if the killer took the knife with him, how did it get back into the apartment?

And while I agree that it was el stupido for LE not to gather the knife as evidence the night of the murder, do we think that it was tampered with? That maybe someone got back inside the apartment?

Help a girl out; I don't seem to be able to get the cobwebs out of my head.
If you can look at my post yesterday, about how I think the blood got on the oven. Then the other poster TJ Eddie said , that would be a good way to get the knife out of the house/ with the cakepan, and I agree. I do not think the knife they have in evidence is the one that was used in the killing, especially since it did not test positive for blood, or am I wrong and this has been determined to be THE knife used in the killing? (the one they have at trial as evidence)

[JR2007]

Perhaps someone with a key . . . ok, ok . . . That was just for play. I guess that's enough about the knife. I believe leaving it there was just stupid, but I don't think it was tampered with . . .
This was a crime scene with yellow tape and all. I believe a cop was posted all night too.

[lorettalockhorn]

It was a quite awhile ago and the officer no longer works for the police department here. I am going to assume it was prior to the gag order!!

hmmm So you actually have it from two sources that York had an attorney?

Not that I find anything odd about it; sounds like he has an attentive attorney. Still wonder if it's mine? Maybe you can find out when he comes back to testify for the defense.

[JR2007]

Maybe Gibbons had a rabbit in his hat after all! :seeya:
You are not credible, Gibbons wasn't wearing a hat today.:tongue:

[lorettalockhorn]

At the least. I would be more inclined to say 10+. You can't go through Russellville and not hit one of the 4 stoplights in between Tech and Paradise Donuts . And to top it off the time that is usually spent at a light is sometimes too long (1 min+ depending on traffic).


I'm going to disagree. I used to drive My Little Love up Arkansas to school every morning and there were plenty of times that I didn't hit a single light. The time to drive from Tech (where you don't have to stop at the light, but only yield to oncoming traffic) is much less than it is from noon until later in the evening.

[lorettalockhorn]

If you can look at my post yesterday, about how I think the blood got on the oven. Then the other poster TJ Eddie said , that would be a good way to get the knife out of the house/ with the cakepan, and I agree. I do not think the knife they have in evidence is the one that was used in the killing, especially since it did not test positive for blood, or am I wrong and this has been determined to be THE knife used in the killing? (the one they have at trial as evidence)


Thanks hud! I guess someone could have carried the knife out in the cake pan as a ruse, but how did he get it in? I wonder how big a knife it was. My Big Jack is pretty darn big when it's' unfolded, but is easily carried in a pocket or purse or whatever.

(I'm so June Cleaver that the problem that I have, is in not taking the cake out of the pan.)

[lorettalockhorn]

BTW, I can watch Channel 5 and record Channel 7 news at 5:00. Leroy has volunteered to watch Channel 11 (but he's as deaf as a post!). Does anyone usually watch 16 or 4?

[FDInLaw]

You are not credible, Gibbons wasn't wearing a hat today.:tongue:

:lol: Like I was in the courtroom and would know anyway! :biggrin:

You be too funny, JR!

[lorettalockhorn]

Channel 5's report was very garbled, but basically they said that the prosecution had rested after two witnesses and that the defense's forensic expert refuted the findings of the State's forensic witness. Also testifying today for the defense were Frost, grandmother, JJones, and at least one friend. The purpose of the defense was to establish a timeline and reportedly, most witnesses testified that they saw KJ at work. They did not specify what time grandmother testified that KJ was at the station.

http://5newsonline.com/Global/story.asp?S=6795370

Channels 7 and 11 didn't have a report about the trial at 5:00.

[lorettalockhorn]

Channel 5 at 6:00 reiterated that the State's forensic expert testified that the scene was staged and contradicted by the defense. Grandmother testified that she saw KJ at work. JJones was on the stand for about an hour, nervous and crying, and left the courtroom in tears after her testimony.

Channel 7 reported about Bevel's theory of a staged scene and the reconstruction of the crime.

http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0707/439840.html

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=49079

[christina]

hmmm So you actually have it from two sources that York had an attorney?

Not that I find anything odd about it; sounds like he has an attentive attorney. Still wonder if it's mine? Maybe you can find out when he comes back to testify for the defense.

Nope, just the one officer and I checked back through the Courier articles and it was prior to the gag order. Whew, he is a good guy and I would not want to see him get in trouble for that!!

You have an attorney on retainer Loretta- anything you want to tell us about?

[hudnala]

Thanks hud! I guess someone could have carried the knife out in the cake pan as a ruse, but how did he get it in? I wonder how big a knife it was. My Big Jack is pretty darn big when it's' unfolded, but is easily carried in a pocket or purse or whatever.

(I'm so June Cleaver that the problem that I have, is in not taking the cake out of the pan.)

In my theory the knife is already in the kitchen, he uses it, then takes it with him along with the cake pan....

[lorettalockhorn]

Nope, just the one officer and I checked back through the Courier articles and it was prior to the gag order. Whew, he is a good guy and I would not want to see him get in trouble for that!!

You have an attorney on retainer Loretta- anything you want to tell us about?

Okay, I either misread your post or confused it with someone else's. I thought that you mentioned that LE had told you and that someone had also pointed him out at the courthouse. My bad.

LOL On retainer? No, but I wonder what that would cost! Have two actually. The one that handles our estate planning. And I've had one for a hundred years who was my advisor in a family agency/business.

[TJEddie]

While we're biding our time here.....does anyone know if there were any previous reports/evidence of physical violence during this 5 yr relationship? I've read that they were screamers and yellers, but I wonder if things ever got physical.

[regularjoe]

So if KJ is not convicted what do you all think will happen with another investigation. Does anyone think that after all this time RPD could put together a well investigated case? I would think that it would be hard to do. Such as, if KJ is not convicted can they take York or Martin's DNA and try to compare it to the DNA found on the wrapper. Can they test the fingernail? Stuff like that.

I am kind of disappointed in that it seems that the trial seems very relaxed (according to the reports) about the timelines of all witnesses. There seems to be no accountability or actual pinning down of where anyone is. If there is a discrepancy they just seem to go on and leave it up to the jury to decide. A person can only be in one place at a time so this would be very important especially considering there are no witnesses to the actual murder. Does anyone else seem surprised about this relaxation? I also seem to be confused as I do not recall where he says he is between apprx. 10:20 (when the handyman was checking on the leak) and from what g-ma now says is about 11:15. She talked to the professor at what time? Can someone remind me?

Also, can someone remind me what York says he was doing between 9:00 when he was at Paradise Donuts (which by the way is on the way to Nona's house. Go about 9 blocks down, turn right and go appx. 1.2 miles.) and thereafter. Maybe someone can bump it for me.

Additionally, I am still awaiting the mention of Jeremy Martin. I have not heard his name pop up much since the trial began.

[jonikay]

IIRC, York testified that he had a 1030 final at Dean and he studied in the hallway beside the classroom he was to take the final in. I don't remember him saying that he studied in his room. Am I wrong?

[christina]

First up was Humphries fromt he State Crime Lab. He is latent print examiner like Bacon. The basic gist of his testimony was to impeach Bacon's saying the prints on the base of the lamp were not sutiable for comparison. He said that "3 ridges have no value".
At 9:20 Tom Bevel was up. He is the expert for the prosecution. Quals-20 years in OkCity as cop, now teaches/trains in crime scene and blood analysis. He was sent a cover letter by Gibbons, an e-mail from Frost, a Cd of 128 photographs, a 34 page report that included interviews. In November of 2006 he came to RPD and looked at the carpet and more pictures. The pros spent half of their time asking his opinion of why the scene was staged. Bevel cited- condom wrapper seemed out of place, stick not in door, appearance of sexual assault with no evidence of one, blood on floor leading up to jeans but none on the jeans, the jeans and bra on the floor looked out of place, cell phone with no battery was illogical. The other half was on blood clotting and the bulb print. He said the blood would have clotted by the time Jones found the body and in his opinion the print on the bulb was made with "fresh", unclotted blood. The defense showed him a book he had written and read parts of it to him that applied to the case. The first being about the danger of group think or tunnel vision and how important it is to consider all viable options. Defense asked him if he was provided with all the evidence before he formed his opinion- answer was no. Defens asked if the cover letter and e-mail talked specifically about Jones or was he provided with other suspects. Bevel said only Jones information was given to him. They then went piece by piece over the items he felt were staged. Stick- is it possible the murderer simply took it with him- yes. Is it probable that the blood on the slider blinds is from where the murderer looked out to see if all was clear- answer-possibly. Condom-in your book you say it is common for something like that to be close to the body, the counter is 4 feet fromt he body, is that close. Answer yes but it would be more likely to be on the floor. Pants- there was no blood under them so if they were staged after the fact, wouldn't there be some sign of blood on or around them? Answer-possibly.
Then at 10:55 after a short recess, the judge looked at the jury and said the prosecution has finished up and ow the defesne is going to begin. It was very anti climatic and unceremonious(is that a word?).

[christina]

First witness for the defense today was Det Frost. They used him to introduce several items the prosecution had but chose to not introduce- Arvest bank photos of Jones and Hutchins at the bank drive through. They are in Jones white car(truck?), time is 2:24.
A picture of blood next to the light switch in the front inside of the apartment. Several pictures of Jones taken by the police the night of the murder. Previously these had been shown only on a tv, the defense lawyer handed the photographs to the jury to look at up close. Pictures of the tables at either end of the sofa. One had a table lamp that had been knocked over, the other(beside the slider) had a spill on it. There was a spill of something on the wall behind where the lamp was knocked over and a pool of liquid on the floor. Lawyer suggested the substance was coke.
Next was a woman Rhonda (didn't catch last name) who worked for Dover Schools, was Jones 6th grade teacher. Saw Jones at the station at 3:10, talked 15-20 minutes, mentioned he was coming to dinner with his mom that night, saw nothing unusual in his behavoir.
Donna Adkins, secretary at Dover schools, testified this was the first time spouses/dates were invited to the staff Christmas Party. She knew Jones father was in Louisiana with the Katrina mess so she and others encouraged Janice Jones to bring Kevin. Janice called Kevina nd he said ok. Adkins said she had to ok it with the principal first, got the ok at 4.
Lunch then back at 12:40 with Roger Morrison, a defense crime scene expert. Was a cop in Atlanta for 20 years, attended over 700 scenes, now has a private company doing forensics. He gave his opinion on the crime scene- blood stain at light switch was suspect because it was so remote from the body, would have checked for prints and dna(It was not), probably the victims but carried there by the muderer. Said "if you can see the spot, you can get dna from it". Said the same for the slider blinds. Frost testified he saw these things but believed they were too insignificant(small or smudged) to test.
About staging- Morrision said it takes place after a crime so he would have expected blood on or underneath the bra and inside out pants. Suggested instead that the pants were removed voluntarily or under duress.
Said fingernail was 4" from head. Defense lawyer then started a question having to do with the ME's testimony, the prosecution asked for a "sidebar".
When asked about Bevel's asseration about the clotted blood and that the blood on the bulb had to be fresh and therefore placed there at the time of the murder- said he does not agree. He believed unclotted blood would flow out of a wound like the fatal one when the body was turned over for the first time. He testified that it had happened to him numerous times. When dead our blood clots more slowly than when we are alive. The prosecution then got up and tried to impeach him on the pants and panties being staged saying"why would an attractive girl like nona wear day old panties". Pros suggested that Kevin knew what she was wearing the night they had sex, went around the apartment and found them, then staged the scene with them.

[christina]

She testified about the call that morning to wake him up, described the layout of the station, said Jones asked her for money for lunch with Huggins(Hutchins?)and she gave him $5, said he was there around 11:30, stayed for 20 minutes, said Jones told her his mom had called to ask him to the dinner and Grandma said he had a change of clothes with him.
Paula JOnes was up next, waitress at the Bayou Cafe. Testified she saw Jones around 12:05 or 12:10, he ordered a ham and cheese(she did not take the order but read it from a register receipt)Receipt shows he paid for the meal at 12:18. Jeremy got off work at 2:05.
Next two witnesses were regular male patrons of the station that saw Jones at work that afternoon. Both testified Jones acted how he normally does.
A neighbor of Nona's was up next. His testimony seemed to be used to verify there was no sign of forced entry on Nona's door prior to the night of the murder. He also said he saw Nona's car at the apartment at 8:10am, at 2:30pm and again at 6pm.
At 3pm the defense called Janice Jones. Carol Dipert got up and left the room and came back a few minutes later. Ms Jones was visibly shaky, asked for water and teared up a few times. Jones teared up watching the testimony as well. The defense lawyer had her go through the events since Jones had come home from Fytville. She gave basically the same account Jones and Whiteside gave of that afternoon and discovering the body. In my opinion, as with other witnesses, it will boil down to whether the jury sees them as truthful and sincere. Whe her testimony ended, she was told she could now remain in the courtroom(as had been said to the grandma), she got off the stand looking dazed and although someone lead her to a seat she kept walking out the door and we heard her burst into literal sobs. I saw Carol Dipert look at the woman next to her, shake her head and smirk.
Court ended at 4:20 and the lawyers once again approached the bench.....

[christina]

While questioning an expert witness about the print ont he light bulb, Morrison I think, the defense lawyer said "we've been talking about it long enough, let's see it" and then took out a pocket knife and cut open the box that held the light bulb and top pole of the lamp. The prosecution had entered it into eveidence last week but said they did not want to open the box because it was fragile. Today they sat up in their seat and told the defense to be careful with it. It appeared to me they did not want it out of the box. The defense lawyer handed it to witness to examine and then over to the jury. Each juror looked handled it and looked closely at the light bulb(the lawyer had screwed it into the socket). It was a significant moment in my opinion. The pole appears flimsy and the reality of that part being used during the murder does not seem possible.
Good night

[FDInLaw]

So if KJ is not convicted what do you all think will happen with another investigation. Does anyone think that after all this time RPD could put together a well investigated case? I would think that it would be hard to do. Such as, if KJ is not convicted can they take York or Martin's DNA and try to compare it to the DNA found on the wrapper. Can they test the fingernail? Stuff like that.

I am kind of disappointed in that it seems that the trial seems very relaxed (according to the reports) about the timelines of all witnesses. There seems to be no accountability or actual pinning down of where anyone is. If there is a discrepancy they just seem to go on and leave it up to the jury to decide. A person can only be in one place at a time so this would be very important especially considering there are no witnesses to the actual murder. Does anyone else seem surprised about this relaxation? I also seem to be confused as I do not recall where he says he is between apprx. 10:20 (when the handyman was checking on the leak) and from what g-ma now says is about 11:15. She talked to the professor at what time? Can someone remind me?

Also, can someone remind me what York says he was doing between 9:00 when he was at Paradise Donuts (which by the way is on the way to Nona's house. Go about 9 blocks down, turn right and go appx. 1.2 miles.) and thereafter. Maybe someone can bump it for me.

Additionally, I am still awaiting the mention of Jeremy Martin. I have not heard his name pop up much since the trial began.
IMO nothing is going to happen. At this point there is no convincing evidence that ties anyone else to the crime scene.

Jeremy Martin may have just been a red herring. . . maybe we won't hear from him?

[FDInLaw]

First up was Humphries fromt he State Crime Lab. He is latent print examiner like Bacon. The basic gist of his testimony was to impeach Bacon's saying the prints on the base of the lamp were not sutiable for comparison. He said that "3 ridges have no value".
At 9:20 Tom Bevel was up. He is the expert for the prosecution. Quals-20 years in OkCity as cop, now teaches/trains in crime scene and blood analysis. He was sent a cover letter by Gibbons, an e-mail from Frost, a Cd of 128 photographs, a 34 page report that included interviews. In November of 2006 he came to RPD and looked at the carpet and more pictures. The pros spent half of their time asking his opinion of why the scene was staged. Bevel cited- condom wrapper seemed out of place, stick not in door, appearance of sexual assault with no evidence of one, blood on floor leading up to jeans but none on the jeans, the jeans and bra on the floor looked out of place, cell phone with no battery was illogical. The other half was on blood clotting and the bulb print. He said the blood would have clotted by the time Jones found the body and in his opinion the print on the bulb was made with "fresh", unclotted blood. The defense showed him a book he had written and read parts of it to him that applied to the case. The first being about the danger of group think or tunnel vision and how important it is to consider all viable options. Defense asked him if he was provided with all the evidence before he formed his opinion- answer was no. Defens asked if the cover letter and e-mail talked specifically about Jones or was he provided with other suspects. Bevel said only Jones information was given to him. They then went piece by piece over the items he felt were staged. Stick- is it possible the murderer simply took it with him- yes. Is it probable that the blood on the slider blinds is from where the murderer looked out to see if all was clear- answer-possibly. Condom-in your book you say it is common for something like that to be close to the body, the counter is 4 feet fromt he body, is that close. Answer yes but it would be more likely to be on the floor. Pants- there was no blood under them so if they were staged after the fact, wouldn't there be some sign of blood on or around them? Answer-possibly.
Then at 10:55 after a short recess, the judge looked at the jury and said the prosecution has finished up and ow the defesne is going to begin. It was very anti climatic and unceremonious(is that a word?).
This is the part I heard from a source. . . did the defense have much of a retort for this?

Thank you so much for reporting back to us all! You're a gem! :seeya:

[christina]

IMO nothing is going to happen. At this point there is no convincing evidence that ties anyone else to the crime scene.

Jeremy Martin may have just been a red herring. . . maybe we won't hear from him?

I tend to agree with Martin amounting to nothing. We have heard hardly anyhting about him at the trial.

To me it will depend on the new police chief as to whether anything is done should Jones be aquitted. I have heard he was close with Bacon.
As a citizen of the area, I would hope that at a minimum they would get York's dna and compare it to the two sources found in the apartment.
I know I have harped on York but testimony and lawyer thing aside- he was the only other person fingerprtinted so at one time the police looked at him as suspicious.
Like I said before, I think when the results of the light bulb finger print came back and it matched one of the two guys they were looking at, they went forward with the match.

[christina]

This is the part I heard from a source. . . did the defense have much of a retort for this?

Thank you so much for reporting back to us all! You're a gem! :seeya:

The defense experts response was personal experience versus book knowledge. The pros expert spent his time on the force learning, training and writing. That is what he does now-writes manuals and teaches in Ok City. Teh defense expert was an Atlanta detective and attended over 700 scenes and now does forensic work. He was very dry in testifying, like they almost had to pull answers out of him. When asked about clotted and "fresh" blood, he said he personally has had "fresh" blood run onto his hands when he rolled victims over.
In my opinion, it negated the previous testimony as just "head knowledge".

[hudnala]

In a word, no. They can do the DNA testing, but the opportunity for a well investigated case is gone. It is now a year and a half later. If KJ is acquitted, I don't feel that the chances for convicting someone else would be great. Unless the DNA matches up, this would help considerably. Nona spoke with her professor at approx. 10:30am. IIRC, from the trial it was at 10:21 am and ended approx. 5 or 6 minutes later. York testified he went back to his room after Paradise Donuts to study for his next exam.

here is the text from the courier about TY, note he does not have alibi from 11 to 1 just like KJ.
Jim Coulter York III
Jim Coulter York III, known as “Trey,” took the stand after lunch. York, 20, testified he was a senior geology major at ATU.
During questioning by Deputy Prosecutor Jeff Phillips, York told the jury he and Dirksmeyer attended the same biology class, and that he had asked her out on a date in late October or early November 2005.
“We went to the movies, then to my dorm room and her apartment,” he said of the date. He said she invited him to stay over at her apartment the next night, and he stayed and left the next morning. He said they kissed, but did not have a sexual relationship.
He said they would often hang out in his dorm room once a week, but he never returned to her apartment. He said she stopped coming around some time after Thanksgiving.
“There was no time to hang out,” he said.
York testified he woke up at 6 a.m. Dec. 15 and began studying. He took his biology exam at 8:30, went back to his dorm and got breakfast at Paradise Donuts downtown at about 9 a.m. He said he spilled a drink in his car, which took him about 10-15 minutes to clean up, and then returned to his dorm room to gather his books and walked to Dean Hall, where he sat in the hallway and studied before taking a 10:30 exam.
He returned to his room and sent a text message to Dirksmeyer, asking him to call him, at about 11 a.m.
“She brought me half a cake, and I had the cake pan,” he said.
York said he packed his things in preparation of returning home to Ashdown for the holidays. He said he returned a movie to Hastings and got gas at an Exxon station near Interstate 40. While at the gas station, he texted Dirksmeyer again, this time with the message “never mind.” He said the message was sent at about 1 p.m.
During cross-examination, Johnson asked him why York and Dirksmeyer stopped hanging out. He asked if it had something to do with school work York thought Dirksmeyer copied.
“I did feel as if I had been taken advantage of,” York said.
He confirmed Dirksmeyer sent him 147 text messages in November and 83 from Dec. 1-15, and said he had replied to all of her messages. York testified he owned a 2005 silver Ford Mustang, but denied it looked similar to Dirksmeyer’s silver Mustang.
Johnson questioned York on how he learned of Dirksmeyer’s death. York at first said he received a call from a Zack at about 10 or 10:30 p.m. Dec. 15, but didn’t take the call because it was an unknown number. He said he had a friend call the number back.
Johnson, who told jurors in opening arguments Zack Walker called York and told him Dirksmeyer was dead the night of Dec. 15, asked York to show him on York’s cell phone records when Walker called him and when he returned Walker’s call. Neither York nor Johnson seemed to be able to identify any calls from or to Walker on the records for Dec. 15.
York later said he didn’t receive a call about Dirksmeyer until the next morning. He was also insistent the biology exam began at 8:30 despite testimony from two other students in the class the exam began at 8.

[hudnala]

So if KJ is not convicted what do you all think will happen with another investigation. Does anyone think that after all this time RPD could put together a well investigated case? I would think that it would be hard to do. Such as, if KJ is not convicted can they take York or Martin's DNA and try to compare it to the DNA found on the wrapper. Can they test the fingernail? Stuff like that.

I am kind of disappointed in that it seems that the trial seems very relaxed (according to the reports) about the timelines of all witnesses. There seems to be no accountability or actual pinning down of where anyone is. If there is a discrepancy they just seem to go on and leave it up to the jury to decide. A person can only be in one place at a time so this would be very important especially considering there are no witnesses to the actual murder. Does anyone else seem surprised about this relaxation? I also seem to be confused as I do not recall where he says he is between apprx. 10:20 (when the handyman was checking on the leak) and from what g-ma now says is about 11:15. She talked to the professor at what time? Can someone remind me?

Also, can someone remind me what York says he was doing between 9:00 when he was at Paradise Donuts (which by the way is on the way to Nona's house. Go about 9 blocks down, turn right and go appx. 1.2 miles.) and thereafter. Maybe someone can bump it for me.

Additionally, I am still awaiting the mention of Jeremy Martin. I have not heard his name pop up much since the trial began.

IMO opinion no one will be convicted becasue of the crappy investigation to begin with.....So much evidence lost. So sad for all involved.

[TJEddie]

Unfortunately, the only description we have of Nona's relationship with Trey York is how Trey now chooses to describe it....one date, some kisses, some "hanging out" in his dorm room, pretty much over after Thanksgiving. And yet we have Nona sending him an average of 6 text messages a day in the two weeks leading up to her murder. I wonder how those 83 text messages in two weeks stacked up against her messages to other people.....how many to Kevin, how many to her best friend, etc. Unless the defense goes after York, I don't guess we'll ever know.

[lorettalockhorn]

So if KJ is not convicted what do you all think will happen with another investigation. Does anyone think that after all this time RPD could put together a well investigated case? I would think that it would be hard to do. Such as, if KJ is not convicted can they take York or Martin's DNA and try to compare it to the DNA found on the wrapper. Can they test the fingernail? Stuff like that.

I am kind of disappointed in that it seems that the trial seems very relaxed (according to the reports) about the timelines of all witnesses. There seems to be no accountability or actual pinning down of where anyone is. If there is a discrepancy they just seem to go on and leave it up to the jury to decide. A person can only be in one place at a time so this would be very important especially considering there are no witnesses to the actual murder. Does anyone else seem surprised about this relaxation? I also seem to be confused as I do not recall where he says he is between apprx. 10:20 (when the handyman was checking on the leak) and from what g-ma now says is about 11:15. She talked to the professor at what time? Can someone remind me?

Also, can someone remind me what York says he was doing between 9:00 when he was at Paradise Donuts (which by the way is on the way to Nona's house. Go about 9 blocks down, turn right and go appx. 1.2 miles.) and thereafter. Maybe someone can bump it for me.

Additionally, I am still awaiting the mention of Jeremy Martin. I have not heard his name pop up much since the trial began.

Not sure exactly how RPD would go about a new investigation at this point, but I cannot imagine that they would close the case. Even when a case has gone cold, they can sometimes be solved.

I think that we're all disappointed in how lackadaisically the investigation was conducted and it would almost seem that the trial is also. Too many unanswered questions still, even after all of this testimony. Agree that the jury has been left with mostly contradictions to sort out; maybe the closing arguments will help to solidify the arguments for each side. At any rate, if KJ is acquitted, a killer will be free.

[FDInLaw]

Who is in the courtroom today?

[lorettalockhorn]

Today's Courier gives the trial a lot of ink, including another of Mary Kincy Benefield's subjective articles about JJones' testimony. There is a picture of the front of Nona's apartment on the front page that shows one of her (?) cats next to her car that is very poignant for a news photo.

I think something that struck me about yesterday's testimony is that even though teachers could invite a guest to the Christmas party, the guests had to be approved, and the woman who made the call didn't do so until around 4pm. Not that I would have expected him to be disapproved, but it is interesting that JJones laid out his clothes that morning. In anticipation, I guess.

Also JJones testified about the chores that KJ had done for her and that he had accomplished more than she expected, but weren't those errands done in the afternoon according to Huggins' testimony?

It is the morning, when the murder actually occurred that seems to be unaccounted for in the timeline. Unless I've missed something.

[optimumprimal78]

here is the text from the courier about TY, note he does not have alibi from 11 to 1 just like KJ.
>SNIP<
York testified he woke up at 6 a.m. Dec. 15 and began studying. He took his biology exam at 8:30, went back to his dorm and got breakfast at Paradise Donuts downtown at about 9 a.m. He said he spilled a drink in his car, which took him about 10-15 minutes to clean up, and then returned to his dorm room to gather his books and walked to Dean Hall, where he sat in the hallway and studied before taking a 10:30 exam.
He returned to his room and sent a text message to Dirksmeyer, asking him to call him, at about 11 a.m.
“She brought me half a cake, and I had the cake pan,” he said.
York said he packed his things in preparation of returning home to Ashdown for the holidays. He said he returned a movie to Hastings and got gas at an Exxon station near Interstate 40. While at the gas station, he texted Dirksmeyer again, this time with the message “never mind.” He said the message was sent at about 1 p.m.

I wonder if they looked into where his texting/phone signal was coming from in order to verify his position.

[beachbum]

Does anyone know what the jury is made up of? How many men and how many women and their ages and occupations?

[al38]

And yet we have Nona sending him an average of 6 text messages a day in the two weeks leading up to her murder. I wonder how those 83 text messages in two weeks stacked up against her messages to other people.....how many to Kevin, how many to her best friend, etc. Unless the defense goes after York, I don't guess we'll ever know.

Very good question. I wonder about that too.

[lorettalockhorn]

Are you stuttering? haha

You're familiar with Janice Jones, are you not? haha

[lorettalockhorn]

Very good question. I wonder about that too.

According to York's testimony, she was texting him, although he answered. That seems excessisve to me, until I compare it to how much time that I spend on yahoo messenger!

[al38]

According to York's testimony, she was texting him, although he answered. That seems excessisve to me, until I compare it to how much time that I spend on yahoo messenger!

I'm curious as to what she would be texting him about. Did she have a land line? Did investigators look at those calls as well? Sorry if this has been discussed already. I am having a hard time keeping up.

[jonikay]

As I heard during the 911 call, I believe KJ yelled that all she had was a cell phone. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. It is really easy to rack up text messages. Especially when someone is texting you back, it is easy to get wrapped up and keep texting back and forth.

[jonikay]

:eek: Did I miss something!?!?!? Did they find Mr. York's bloody palm print on the murder weapon too? :shrug: Gotta love susieq . . . ;)

[lorettalockhorn]

Nope, ahh, so would you be making fun of the poor woman then? tsk tsk


No, where did I do that? How could you not know that JJones is Janice Jones what with all of the research you have under your belt?

[jonikay]

I think that talking about York as a suspect at this point isn't working. Well, it's working, but as far as an alibi is concerned . . . If they went back and charged him, even if he had an alibi at the time, it's been almost 2 years. During his testimony, he named several people that saw him studying and packing in his apartment and taking the stuff to his car. If they went back and checked out those people (if they haven't already), nobody will remember what they need to concerning his alibi, imo. The Jones family wouldn't have remembered where KJ was every few minutes on December 15, 2005 if asked about it on July 17, 2007. Unless they find his prints/dna on the evidence, he won't be charged. Don't you think?

[lorettalockhorn]

As I heard during the 911 call, I believe KJ yelled that all she had was a cell phone. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. It is really easy to rack up text messages. Especially when someone is texting you back, it is easy to get wrapped up and keep texting back and forth.

I don't recall reading about that part of the 911 call, I did find that Nona (presumably) had a residential phoneline in an old phone book. Maybe she only used it for an internet connection? The listing was simply N Dirksmeyer, no address, with a Rsvl number.

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm curious as to what she would be texting him about. Did she have a land line? Did investigators look at those calls as well? Sorry if this has been discussed already. I am having a hard time keeping up.


You shouldn't fault yourself for not being able to keep up; there are many unanswered and unasked questions (for that matter)! Who knows what investigators did look at? I got the impression from York's testimony that their relationship revolved around the biology class.

I think that I must have missed a lot too. I'm not seeing the alibi materialize.

[JR2007]

Today's Courier gives the trial a lot of ink, including another of Mary Kincy Benefield's subjective articles about JJones' testimony. There is a picture of the front of Nona's apartment on the front page that shows one of her (?) cats next to her car that is very poignant for a news photo.

I think something that struck me about yesterday's testimony is that even though teachers could invite a guest to the Christmas party, the guests had to be approved, and the woman who made the call didn't do so until around 4pm. Not that I would have expected him to be disapproved, but it is interesting that JJones laid out his clothes that morning. In anticipation, I guess.

Also JJones testified about the chores that KJ had done for her and that he had accomplished more than she expected, but weren't those errands done in the afternoon according to Huggins' testimony?

It is the morning, when the murder actually occurred that seems to be unaccounted for in the timeline. Unless I've missed something.
Loretta, I was reading and catching up with the post in order that I could post what I read in today's paper about his mother laying out KJ's clothes for the party that evening. My mom stopped doing this for me in the 2nd grade.
Later, She spoke with Donna Adkins, an employee of the school, who encouraged her to bring Kevin to the teachers Christmas party. Sounds like the cart be for the horse. Hum sound contrived to me.
I'm also having trouble with Grandma's statement, not only was it not mentioned in KJ statement to the police, but he had stated that he didn't leave home till 11:45 to go to the station, which Blake refuted. We need a fish icon on here.

[jonikay]

Loretta, I was reading and catching up with the post in order that I could post what I read in today's paper about his mother laying out KJ's clothes for the party that evening. She spoke with Donna Adkins, an employee of the school, who encouraged her to bring Kevin to the teachers Christmas party. Hum sound contrived to me.
I'm also having trouble with Grandma's statement, not only was it not mentioned in KJ statement to the police, but he had stated that he didn't leave home till 11:45 to go to the station, which Blake refuted. We need a fish icon on here.
Yeah, with little "odor" lines coming off of it. haha
imo, a bunch of folks putting a timeline together. . . one should believe the charged person's statement before they believe Grandma. Kevin is the one who didn't mention seeing her until around 3, I guess.

[lorettalockhorn]

From today's ArDemGaz, Northwest edition:

http://www.nwarktimes.com/adg/News/195911/

[lorettalockhorn]

Loretta, I was reading and catching up with the post in order that I could post what I read in today's paper about his mother laying out KJ's clothes for the party that evening. She spoke with Donna Adkins, an employee of the school, who encouraged her to bring Kevin to the teachers Christmas party. Hum sound contrived to me.
I'm also having trouble with Grandma's statement, not only was it not mentioned in KJ statement to the police, but he had stated that he didn't leave home till 11:45 to go to the station, which Blake refuted. We need a fish icon on here.


Yep. And I think that there was some room for question about the difference in times that Frazier and his worker reported that they left the residence. Forgive me for saying this, but Frazier has the reputation as the town drunk, so I'm not surprised that there is room for confusion there. I also wasn't sure from the testimony of Frazier and his worker, what time they actually last saw KJ.

I have a hard time believing that grandmother could have alibied Kevin all this time when her testimony refutes Kevin's statement and Walters' both. Fish, huh. I would have said that I smell a rat.

In the long run, I think that the jury decision will come down to whom gave the most believable testimony. I wonder if KJ is acquitted, it will be partly due to the jury punishing LE for a sloppy investigation.

[jonikay]

Referring to susieq's response . . . Looks like to whom? If you're talking about me, I meant people saw him studying in the hallway AND people saw him packing his apartment. If you were referring to me, that is not what I meant. It doesn't really matter anyway, I guess . . .

[lorettalockhorn]

That part wasn't made public. It was played in court. Must have been an old number.....

Yes, I haven't been in court so I didn't hear the tape. Yes, I haven't read about that part of the 911 tape. Yes, it was from the '05 directory; the time frame when Nona was living on Inglewood. Could it have been from another apartment? Did I read somewhere that she had another roommate at one time, or was this her only time living away from home?

[jonikay]

Yes, I haven't been in court so I didn't hear the tape. Yes, I haven't read about that part of the 911 tape. Yes, it was from the '05 directory; the time frame when Nona was living on Inglewood. Could it have been from another apartment? Did I read somewhere that she had another roommate at one time, or was this her only time living away from home?
She had a roommate at another apartment (on Elmira) that testified to her security issues with keeping the doors locked, etc. She lived at Inglewood for around 6-7 months. It could have been a number that she had at her mom's house, too. I figure they had a pretty good sized house, etc. Maybe she had an extra line in her room, if so, she could have had her name in the phone book.

[hawgustusgloop]

She testified about the call that morning to wake him up, described the layout of the station, said Jones asked her for money for lunch with Huggins(Hutchins?)and she gave him $5, said he was there around 11:30, stayed for 20 minutes, said Jones told her his mom had called to ask him to the dinner and Grandma said he had a change of clothes with him.
Paula JOnes was up next, waitress at the Bayou Cafe. Testified she saw Jones around 12:05 or 12:10, he ordered a ham and cheese(she did not take the order but read it from a register receipt)Receipt shows he paid for the meal at 12:18. Jeremy got off work at 2:05.
Next two witnesses were regular male patrons of the station that saw Jones at work that afternoon. Both testified Jones acted how he normally does.
A neighbor of Nona's was up next. His testimony seemed to be used to verify there was no sign of forced entry on Nona's door prior to the night of the murder. He also said he saw Nona's car at the apartment at 8:10am, at 2:30pm and again at 6pm.
At 3pm the defense called Janice Jones. Carol Dipert got up and left the room and came back a few minutes later. Ms Jones was visibly shaky, asked for water and teared up a few times. Jones teared up watching the testimony as well. The defense lawyer had her go through the events since Jones had come home from Fytville. She gave basically the same account Jones and Whiteside gave of that afternoon and discovering the body. In my opinion, as with other witnesses, it will boil down to whether the jury sees them as truthful and sincere. Whe her testimony ended, she was told she could now remain in the courtroom(as had been said to the grandma), she got off the stand looking dazed and although someone lead her to a seat she kept walking out the door and we heard her burst into literal sobs. I saw Carol Dipert look at the woman next to her, shake her head and smirk.
Court ended at 4:20 and the lawyers once again approached the bench.....

Is this woman related to K.Jo's family, or is it just a coincidence that her last name is Jones? Does anyone know?

[hawgustusgloop]

Referring to susieq's response . . . Looks like to whom? If you're talking about me, I meant people saw him studying in the hallway AND people saw him packing his apartment. If you were referring to me, that is not what I meant. It doesn't really matter anyway, I guess . . .

Thank you for clarifying. It looks like in addition to that fish icon, we also need one of a hand grasping for some straws.