Nona Dirksmeyer, 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant contestant found dead in her apartment

[FDInLaw]

Come on, now.
Give me a chance.
Let's go.
Let us discuss the case.
Commence...
I am ready.
I have input. Well, then let's have it! What's your take on this whole sad affair? You believe Kevin is getting a bad rap. Why?

[hawgustusgloop]

Suppose you arrive at the door with others; the vics car is there but no answer at the door. There would be no reason to panic or be alarmed at that point; perhaps she just went shopping and left with someone else. There would be no reason to use a key, even if you had one, to get in - just because there was no answer, especially if you had people with you. That would show you anticipate a problem. No answer ususally means - no one is home. However, should there be a way to peer in the back sliding door and see a body lying on the floor, then you have your reason. The perp knew the victim kept a stick in the door, so it had to be removed - in order to enter through the back UPON SEEING A BODY. Since he knew the stick was always kept there - he would not have forced the door open - assuming the stick was in place and entry could not be done through that door. However, the door was forced open even when locked (with no stick there) - Jones did it and RPD did it. The question: How did Jones know he could force open that door if there was always a stick kept there ? How did he know unless he removed it earlier? IMO the person who did this knew he had to get back in and have a reason to go in. Who else would think to remove the stick and take it with them..........who else would care ?

OK, suga, what is your opinion of this post, other than the fact that I've bumped it 50 times?

[jonikay]

Besides, (again about the condom thing), there was nothing else for the rpd to do except for to inspect the toilets. After looking in the trash and thoughout the rest of the house, there was nowhere else for them to look. They really did all they could do in search for the condom. I am glad they inspected the toilets, on the chance that the condom could have been there. But . . . and I just thought about this, believe it or not . . . it may have been very difficult to extract dna from a condom that had been flushed if they would have found it. That is assuming the condom found was put there by kj on that fateful day. If the condom had been in the toilet after it was taken apart, our argument (that is not meant at all to be facetious) would have been, "who can say for sure that the condom was placed there on that day? who can say that the condom wasn't placed there days or months before the murder? etc, etc"

[christina]

ok, christina, my unc is a plumber. He tells me that the majority of his calls to houses for a clogged toilet result in the digging out of at least two condoms. Oh well, you know, after all this pleasant discussion, who really gives a hoot about a condom? haha . . . sometimes, it's interesting! (when I'm not involved)

Anyway we look at it(and they were not a pretty site at the waste treatment plant :() the condom itself was not retrieved.
The hearing about the blood is this Friday and I am not sure I can attend. I hate waiting for and relying on only the Courier reports!

[FDInLaw]

Anyway we look at it(and they were not a pretty site at the waste treatment plant :() the condom itself was not retrieved.
The hearing about the blood is this Friday and I am not sure I can attend. I hate waiting for and relying on only the Courier reports! You may not make it? Oh, poop! We need someone there. One of you local folks step up to the plate! Friday's hearing is really important.

[FDInLaw]

yes, it is sad.
What makes you think I think Jones is getting a bad rap.
I never said that.
Sorry, must have mistaken you for someone else. . . or maybe it was your "justice for Jones" comment that gave me that idea.

Could you share more about your thoughts on the case or am I just wasting my time asking? :shrug:

[christina]

OK, suga, what is your opinion of this post, other than the fact that I've bumped it 50 times?

I would like to adress this- If we go on the logical assumption that since Jones was listed as the victim's fiance he would have intimate knowledge of her habits and her apartment, it breaks through many of the points here.
He says he was with her til after midnight and then they talked again on the phone. This says to me that they were in frequent contact/communication thus he would have reason to have a level of concern when she did not answer a text message, her cell phone or her apartment door. We know the apartments she lived in are exact replicas of each other, so anyone knows there is a sliding glass door in the back and it would be logical to look through it should you have a level of concern and no one answered the door.
Because of his knowing the apartment, he would have known the slider could be opened even when locked.
As for the stick, it probably went the way of the now infamous condom and the cell phone battery. Please tell me that somewhere it states the police searched the area around the apartment and not just the apartment?!?!?!!?

[lorettalockhorn]

Besides, (again about the condom thing), there was nothing else for the rpd to do except for to inspect the toilets. After looking in the trash and thoughout the rest of the house, there was nowhere else for them to look. They really did all they could do in search for the condom. I am glad they inspected the toilets, on the chance that the condom could have been there. But . . . and I just thought about this, believe it or not . . . it may have been very difficult to extract dna from a condom that had been flushed if they would have found it. That is assuming the condom found was put there by kj on that fateful day. If the condom had been in the toilet after it was taken apart, our argument (that is not meant at all to be facetious) would have been, "who can say for sure that the condom was placed there on that day? who can say that the condom wasn't placed there days or months before the murder? etc, etc"

Maybe they weren't looking for a condom in order to specifically find DNA or try to extrapolate when it was flushed, but rather to see if it was the habit of Nona's partner to flush a condom at all. Or perhaps they could have matched a brand to the wrapper.

[lorettalockhorn]

I would like to adress this- If we go on the logical assumption that since Jones was listed as the victim's fiance he would have intimate knowledge of her habits and her apartment, it breaks through many of the points here.
He says he was with her til after midnight and then they talked again on the phone. This says to me that they were in frequent contact/communication thus he would have reason to have a level of concern when she did not answer a text message, her cell phone or her apartment door. We know the apartments she lived in are exact replicas of each other, so anyone knows there is a sliding glass door in the back and it would be logical to look through it should you have a level of concern and no one answered the door.
Because of his knowing the apartment, he would have known the slider could be opened even when locked.
As for the stick, it probably went the way of the now infamous condom and the cell phone battery. Please tell me that somewhere it states the police searched the area around the apartment and not just the apartment?!?!?!!?

If Nona had a second test that day, she logically might not have answered her phone or texts. And since she had a date with her "Little" that evening, she might not logically have been at home to answer the door.

I think that the PCS is meant to be an abstract, so it's not surprising to me that there are no details of the search outside of the immediate vicinity of the crime. I've written affidavits myself and they are an outline; not a brief.

[hawgustusgloop]

>snip<
Please tell me that somewhere it states the police searched the area around the apartment and not just the apartment?!?!?!!?

From the Probable Cause Statement:

"However, on the afternoon of the 1 5th of December, there was no stick in the door frame and after an extensive search of the apartment and surrounding area, no stick was ever found."

[christina]

From the Probable Cause Statement:

"However, on the afternoon of the 1 5th of December, there was no stick in the door frame and after an extensive search of the apartment and surrounding area, no stick was ever found."

Thank you!?

[christina]

If Nona had a second test that day, she logically might not have answered her phone or texts. And since she had a date with her "Little" that evening, she might not logically have been at home to answer the door.

I think that the PCS is meant to be an abstract, so it's not surprising to me that there are no details of the search outside of the immediate vicinity of the crime. I've written affidavits myself and they are an outline; not a brief.

Understand that. What about the thought that being her finace, having been with her the evening/early morning before he would have known what she would be doing the next day as well as knew her communication habits and that is what caused the concern?

[christina]

For those not interested in case disucssion but would like to chat and banter may I direct to the CLub Lounge. It's a groovy place to hang

Thank you. Though I do not think my boss would appreciate me finding yet another discussion to be involved with.

[christina]

Geez... I am already.
As things are brought up.
I don't know where to start.
I am relying on others to bring
up things.
Then I give input.
"Justice for Jones"-- I was being "cheeky"
(new word- I learned it on here)
to the situation that was going on at
the time.

cheek·y
–adjective, impudent; insolent: a cheeky fellow; cheeky behavior. Synonyms saucy, audacious, bold.

Good British word!

[jonikay]

I understand what you're saying, but he knew she had at least 2 finals and a lunch or dinner with her little sis. That makes for a busy day. I would think, and this is only IMO, that that day of all days, he wouldn't have been concerned for her whereabouts, being that he knew she was going to be busy. I will look it up, but IIRC, he didn't even try to call her very many times that day.

[hawgustusgloop]

Understand that. What about the thought that being her finace, having been with her the evening/early morning before he would have known what she would be doing the next day as well as knew her communication habits and that is what caused the concern?

Wouldn't he also know she had an afternoon final as well? If he was SO worried, why not drive to campus and see if her car was there or wait for her outside the classroom? Why not call her professor and say that he was Super Concerned that something was seriously wrong, and wanted to know if she showed up or not? I guess he could have done these things, for all we know. It would be easy to imagine that she turned her phone off for her final, somehow got distracted, and just forgot to turn it back on.

[jonikay]

PCS:
Jones stated in his interview that he first tried to call Nona around 11:00 or 12:OO on the 15th and that Nona’s phone rang and went straight to voice mail. Affiant obtained the cell phone records for Nona’s phone and Jones’ phone and both sets of records show that the first call to Nona’s phone by Jones (after the very early morning call) was at 14:10. After that time Jones made several calls to Nona’s phone to include a text message at 16:28. Affiant obtained Nona’s phone and submitted it to the State Crime Lab for SIM card analysis. The Crime Lab determined that the text message from Jones to Nona at 16:28 read “U ALIVE”.

He was so worried, in fact, that he didn't try to call her until after 2pm and the 911 call was placed at 630. That was only 4 hours. He went as far to state that he tried to call her at 11 or 12, but the phone data says otherwise. It was funny, to me, that the PCS states that kj said he left his home at 1145, but couldn't be clear enough to give a more precise time for trying to call Nona. For instance, he could have gaged when he made that phone call by thinking that it was either before or after he left his house.

[lorettalockhorn]

Wouldn't he also know she had an afternoon final as well? If he was SO worried, why not drive to campus and see if her car was there or wait for her outside the classroom? Why not call her professor and say that he was Super Concerned that something was seriously wrong, and wanted to know if she showed up or not? I guess he could have done these things, for all we know. It would be easy to imagine that she turned her phone off for her final, somehow got distracted, and just forgot to turn it back on.


Or wanted some peace and quiet to study after being kept up so late the night before. Or just some breathing room, period.

[christina]

PCS:
Jones stated in his interview that he first tried to call Nona around 11:00 or 12:OO on the 15th and that Nona’s phone rang and went straight to voice mail. Affiant obtained the cell phone records for Nona’s phone and Jones’ phone and both sets of records show that the first call to Nona’s phone by Jones (after the very early morning call) was at 14:10. After that time Jones made several calls to Nona’s phone to include a text message at 16:28. Affiant obtained Nona’s phone and submitted it to the State Crime Lab for SIM card analysis. The Crime Lab determined that the text message from Jones to Nona at 16:28 read “U ALIVE”.

He was so worried, in fact, that he didn't try to call her until after 2pm and the 911 call was placed at 630. That was only 4 hours. He went as far to state that he tried to call her at 11 or 12, but the phone data says otherwise. It was funny, to me, that the PCS states that kj said he left his home at 1145, but couldn't be clear enough to give a more precise time for trying to call Nona. For instance, he could have gaged when he made that phone call by thinking that it was either before or after he left his house.

I think you and I are starting from a different basis of belief. You appear to come from- Jones is guilty so how does this fit him. I am trieing to come from-the question Did Jones do it or is there another explanation?

[christina]

Wouldn't he also know she had an afternoon final as well? If he was SO worried, why not drive to campus and see if her car was there or wait for her outside the classroom? Why not call her professor and say that he was Super Concerned that something was seriously wrong, and wanted to know if she showed up or not? I guess he could have done these things, for all we know. It would be easy to imagine that she turned her phone off for her final, somehow got distracted, and just forgot to turn it back on.

Understand. But if you use my assumption- they would have had a pattern of communication, either text or calls, that he would be aware of. Breaking that pattern would be what caused his concern.

[christina]

PCS:
Jones stated in his interview that he first tried to call Nona around 11:00 or 12:OO on the 15th and that Nona’s phone rang and went straight to voice mail. Affiant obtained the cell phone records for Nona’s phone and Jones’ phone and both sets of records show that the first call to Nona’s phone by Jones (after the very early morning call) was at 14:10. After that time Jones made several calls to Nona’s phone to include a text message at 16:28. Affiant obtained Nona’s phone and submitted it to the State Crime Lab for SIM card analysis. The Crime Lab determined that the text message from Jones to Nona at 16:28 read “U ALIVE”.

He was so worried, in fact, that he didn't try to call her until after 2pm and the 911 call was placed at 630. That was only 4 hours. He went as far to state that he tried to call her at 11 or 12, but the phone data says otherwise. It was funny, to me, that the PCS states that kj said he left his home at 1145, but couldn't be clear enough to give a more precise time for trying to call Nona. For instance, he could have gaged when he made that phone call by thinking that it was either before or after he left his house.

Read my post to hawgustusgloop.

[jonikay]

I think you and I are starting from a different basis of belief. You appear to come from- Jones is guilty so how does this fit him. I am trieing to come from-the question Did Jones do it or is there another explanation?
Christina, I understand where you may think that, but I am following what the majority of the evidence has told me. Although not all of the evidence points to kj, a lot of it does. Especially when he has not told the truth about somethings, including when he tried to call her (this is proven fact). I chose not to use the word "lie" because that makes it sound more deliberate than it may be. Could you give me an explanation of how kj was able to give a precise time for leaving his house and getting to the station, but not a more precise time for trying to call Nona? There are several open spots that definitely need explaining, but some of it is unexplainable. I believe in "innocent until proven guilty," but if there ever was a place to discuss our theories and opinions about the what and who and how, this is surely the place.

[christina]

Christina, I understand where you may think that, but I am following what the majority of the evidence has told me. Although not all of the evidence points to kj, a lot of it does. Especially when he has not told the truth about somethings, including when he tried to call her (this is proven fact). I chose not to use the word "lie" because that makes it sound more deliberate than it may be. Could you give me an explanation of how kj was able to give a precise time for leaving his house and getting to the station, but not a more precise time for trying to call Nona? There are several open spots that definitely need explaining, but some of it is unexplainable. I believe in "innocent until proven guilty," but if there ever was a place to discuss our theories and opinions about the what and who and how, this is surely the place.

Oh, I agree with that and appreciate having the forum here to do that. I was not questioning, nor making a value judgement on why you come from that idea. I was just suggesting why it might be hard for you to see my points at times. I do appreciate that your posts do not use words like lie nor attempt to suggest you know Jones thoughts or motives.
As for giving a precise time for anything, I am not a person to ask an explanation from because I would be hard pressed to remember specific times at all if asked. I do not wear a watch and depend on my cell phone for that. As for Jones and calling times, all he would have had to do is look at his phone, assuming Frost had not given it away(again- attempt at humor)and read the times from it. Why did he not do that? I can not think of an explanation other than he didn't think of it or the phone was not in his possession when asked the question.

[FDInLaw]

Christina, I understand where you may think that, but I am following what the majority of the evidence has told me. Although not all of the evidence points to kj, a lot of it does. Especially when he has not told the truth about somethings, including when he tried to call her (this is proven fact). I chose not to use the word "lie" because that makes it sound more deliberate than it may be. Could you give me an explanation of how kj was able to give a precise time for leaving his house and getting to the station, but not a more precise time for trying to call Nona? There are several open spots that definitely need explaining, but some of it is unexplainable. I believe in "innocent until proven guilty," but if there ever was a place to discuss our theories and opinions about the what and who and how, this is surely the place.Excellent post! :beer:

[jonikay]

Oh, I agree with that and appreciate having the forum here to do that. I was not questioning, nor making a value judgement on why you come from that idea. I was just suggesting why it might be hard for you to see my points at times. I do appreciate that your posts do not use words like lie nor attempt to suggest you know Jones thoughts or motives.
As for giving a precise time for anything, I am not a person to ask an explanation from because I would be hard pressed to remember specific times at all if asked. I do not wear a watch and depend on my cell phone for that. As for Jones and calling times, all he would have had to do is look at his phone, assuming Frost had not given it away(again- attempt at humor)and read the times from it. Why did he not do that? I can not think of an explanation other than he didn't think of it or the phone was not in his possession when asked the question.
I totally understand your views on things. It is quite refreshing to be able to have different views posted in a nice and classy way. Thanks. I'll admit that it is hard for me at this point to think that kj is innocent. There. I said it. But, I'll also admit that it hasn't always been that way. Until kj was charged and some of the evidence started coming out, I was leaning toward his innocence. I also took my husband's word for it, who somewhat grew up with the family, in his opinion that kj could have never done it. He was the absolute last person my husband would have ever expected. I also am a true believer that Gibbons has remained tight-lipped about all of the evidence because he always wanted the trial to be held in Pope County.

[FDInLaw]

For those not interested in case disucssion but would like to chat and banter may I direct to the CLub Lounge. It's a groovy place to hang

Sorry, I was apart of that group. :o

[JR2007]

I don't recall what time her evening exam was. Can anyone help with this?

[JR2007]

Sorry, I was apart of that group. :o

:punch: bad FD

[FDInLaw]

I don't recall what time her evening exam was. Can anyone help with this? Wasn't it at 2pm?

[jonikay]

I don't recall what time her evening exam was. Can anyone help with this?
I have no idea when her final was supposed to be. I will research it. Also, they don't hold finals at night for a general, normal class. Being that she was a music major (and I know exactly how the classes/schedules go), it is my strong assumption that her final had to be no later than 3, possibly 4, but I doubt it. She had to have known that she had enough time to go home for a bit before the next test.

[JR2007]

Wasn't it at 2pm?

That's what I thought too. The question which has probably been asked before is why did KJ try calling her when she was suppose to be taking a test. Don't make sense to me.

[jonikay]

Also, as far as I have known, U of A finals are the same as ATU's. He was a student in the fall of that year. I wonder if he just stopped going to school without dropping out. If not, he should have been in Fayetteville.

[christina]

I totally understand your views on things. It is quite refreshing to be able to have different views posted in a nice and classy way. Thanks. I'll admit that it is hard for me at this point to think that kj is innocent. There. I said it. But, I'll also admit that it hasn't always been that way. Until kj was charged and some of the evidence started coming out, I was leaning toward his innocence. I also took my husband's word for it, who somewhat grew up with the family, in his opinion that kj could have never done it. He was the absolute last person my husband would have ever expected. I also am a true believer that Gibbons has remained tight-lipped about all of the evidence because he always wanted the trial to be held in Pope County.

YES!! I am printing this one out for proof to my husabnd that I can!!

[christina]

I totally understand your views on things. It is quite refreshing to be able to have different views posted in a nice and classy way. Thanks. I'll admit that it is hard for me at this point to think that kj is innocent. There. I said it. But, I'll also admit that it hasn't always been that way. Until kj was charged and some of the evidence started coming out, I was leaning toward his innocence. I also took my husband's word for it, who somewhat grew up with the family, in his opinion that kj could have never done it. He was the absolute last person my husband would have ever expected. I also am a true believer that Gibbons has remained tight-lipped about all of the evidence because he always wanted the trial to be held in Pope County.

Serioulsy- I agree, and tight lipped is the way he should handle it. All he can work with is what the police give him!

[FDInLaw]

YES!! I am printing this one out for proof to my husabnd that I can!!((((((HUGS!)))))) You're a gem. I too appreciate the way you are able to discuss the case without getting snippy.

[Mishell1383]

ok thinking of my reaction, which could be totally off, due to never being in that situation. If I were look in the back slider and if I saw a body I couldn't picture myself forcing my way in. I'd call the cops first, from outside, #1 mainly because I'm a chicken and would be terrified at that point, and #2 I wouldn't want to mess up the crime scene because I'd want the victim to get as much of a fair chance of telling the story as possible. BUt than again, would I even be thinking logically like that?? Thats a tough one actually. :shrug:

[christina]

ok thinking of my reaction, which could be totally off, due to never being in that situation. If I were look in the back slider and if I saw a body I couldn't picture myself forcing my way in. I'd call the cops first, from outside, #1 mainly because I'm a chicken and would be terrified at that point, and #2 I wouldn't want to mess up the crime scene because I'd want the victim to get as much of a fair chance of telling the story as possible. BUt than again, would I even be thinking logically like that?? Thats a tough one actually. :shrug:

Thinking of preserving a crime scene would be the least of the issues I would think-Seeing a body laying on a floor would hopefully make any of us want to save them, resuscitate them if possible.

[JR2007]

Thinking of preserving a crime scene would be the least of the issues I would think-Seeing a body laying on a floor would hopefully make any of us want to save them, resuscitate them if possible.
That depends on who it was.

[christina]

That depends on who it was.

whom-Victim or resuscitator?

[Mishell1383]

Thinking of preserving a crime scene would be the least of the issues I would think-Seeing a body laying on a floor would hopefully make any of us want to save them, resuscitate them if possible.
i know but im a chicken, when I tell you I'd be scared I'd be freakin scared, I think I'd go running the other way, but than I might come back, but I'd be on the phone already, I'd probably running around in circles not knowing what to do, I get scared being on my laptop in my room and reading stories that aren't considered "scary" lol when its night time of course. lol

[christina]

i know but im a chicken, when I tell you I'd be scared I'd be freakin scared, I think I'd go running the other way, but than I might come back, but I'd be on the phone already, I'd probably running around in circles not knowing what to do, I get scared being on my laptop in my room and reading stories that aren't considered "scary" lol when its night time of course. lol

That is funny! But I do think when the opportunity arises to help someone in need, we all step up to the plate.

[hawgustusgloop]

That is funny! But I do think when the opportunity arises to help someone in need, we all step up to the plate.

I guess it depends on the circumstances, for me. Like, if I were alone and happened upon a violent death like Nona's, I think I would be :chicken: that whoever did that to her was still lurking about. But then again, I am a MAJOR :chicken: !!!

[Mishell1383]

I guess it depends on the circumstances, for me. Like, if I were alone and happened upon a violent death like Nona's, I think I would be :chicken: that whoever did that to her was still lurking about. But then again, I am a MAJOR :chicken: !!!
LOLOLOL Exactly! Me too! :chicken:
we'd both go running in opposite directions!

[christina]

I guess it depends on the circumstances, for me. Like, if I were alone and happened upon a violent death like Nona's, I think I would be :chicken: that whoever did that to her was still lurking about. But then again, I am a MAJOR :chicken: !!!

Seriously- you are a major?! I feel stupid- I just saw the chicken next to the word major!

[lorettalockhorn]

Serioulsy- I agree, and tight lipped is the way he should handle it. All he can work with is what the police give him!

Of course Gibbons is tightlipped as he is bound by the gag order. At this point, we have no idea what the police gave him. I think it is naive to assume that the PCS states the entire case.

[lorettalockhorn]

Also, as far as I have known, U of A finals are the same as ATU's. He was a student in the fall of that year. I wonder if he just stopped going to school without dropping out. If not, he should have been in Fayetteville.


Interesting. Maybe he had finished his finals by 12/15. That is usually about the date of the midterm graduation at Tech.

[christina]

Of course Gibbons is tightlipped as he is bound by the gag order. At this point, we have no idea what the police gave him. I think it is naive to assume that the PCS states the entire case.

Orignally he was not tight lipped- that is what caused the defense to move for the gag order. And now we find out that one of the things mentioned prior to gag order-a report by a FBI profiler- has yet to be produced and given to the defense.
Naive to assume it states the whole case? I definitely agree- just as it is naive to think Jones and his lawyers do not have a good defense.

[lorettalockhorn]

Orignally he was not tight lipped- that is what caused the defense to move for the gag order. And now we find out that one of the things mentioned prior to gag order-a report by a FBI profiler- has yet to be produced and given to the defense.
Naive to assume it states the whole case? I definitely agree- just as it is naive to think Jones and his lawyers do not have a good defense.

I've never read that Gibbons' was responsible for causing the gag order; I thought that it was to stifle everyone. Do you have a link to your source? I don't pretend to know the extent of the state's case anymore than I pretend to have a clue about what exactly the defense will be. Maybe it will be as simple as shoring up Kev's shaky alibi.

I have every respect for the state's attorneys as well as the defense's. Well, I take that back. After Mr. Robbins' taking Jesus' name in vain in court; not so much with regard to him.

[christina]

I've never read that Gibbons' was responsible for the gag order; I thought that it was to stifle everyone. Do you have a link to your source? I don't pretend to know the extent of the state's case anymore than I pretend to have a clue about what exactly the defense will be. Maybe it will be as simple as shoring up Kev's shaky alibi.

I have every respect for the state's attorneys as well as the defense's. Well, I take that back. After Mr. Robbins' taking Jesus' name in vain in court; not so much with regard to him.

From what I remember the motion was filed by the defense. I will try to find it but I do not have an archive of all the stuff. Can anyone help?
You sound like you have contempt for the defense. Everyone has a right to a good defense, that is why it is written into our consitution.
As for Robbins, you are taking one person's word for what was said- the reporter. I was in the court room, although not right up front, and did not hear the word Jesus. I heard many exclamations, from many people, but not specifically that.

[christina]

http://couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=11691&Search=Gibbons

[christina]

http://couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=11740&Search=Gibbons

[lorettalockhorn]

From what I remember the motion was filed by the defense. I will try to find it but I do not have an archive of all the stuff. Can anyone help?
You sound like you have contempt for the defense. Everyone has a right to a good defense, that is why it is written into our consitution.
As for Robbins, you are taking one person's word for what was said- the reporter. I was in the court room, although not right up front, and did not hear the word Jesus. I heard many exclamations, from many people, but not specifically that.


You misunderstood me. I said that I have respect for the defense, with the exception of Robbins' crude outburst. It was quoted in The Courier and I'm surprised that the editor hasn't been called on the carpet if it is a lie.

I do have contempt for the defendant, which is entirely different. I am well aware of his right to a speedy and fair trial and his attorneys' responsibility to put on a vigorous defense and I respect that as well.

I could very well do a 180 when the evidence comes to trial. But it's really going to start with the alibi. The alibi is what makes KJ look to be a liar and there has to be a reason for him to lie. And regardless of Bacon's definition of the word tacky, KJ's print got on the bulb in blood somehow at some time. That is problematic.

[christina]

You misunderstood me. I said that I have respect for the defense, with the exception of Robbins' crude outburst. It was quoted in The Courier and I'm surprised that the editor hasn't been called on the carpet if it is a lie.

I do have contempt for the defendant, which is entirely different. I am well aware of his right to a speedy and fair trial and his attorneys' responsibility to put on a vigorous defense and I respect that as well.

I could very well do a 180 when the evidence comes to trial. But it's really going to start with the alibi. The alibi is what makes KJ look to be a liar and there has to be a reason for him to lie. And regardless of Bacon's definition of the word tacky, KJ's print got on the bulb in blood somehow at some time. That is problematic.

Thank you for explaining further. Were you able to open the links about the gag order?

[jonikay]

The palm print (quite different than a fingerprint as far as touching something is concerned) could have been tacky if . . . ok, just think for a second . . . the lamp is on, as it usually is. It is grabbed in haste as the murder weapon. Nona is murdered and the lamp needs to be cleaned or whatever . . . maybe not even cleaned . . . could the palm print on the light bulb be tacky if, by chance, the bulb was very hot when it was touched, sort of changing the consistency of blood since the lamp was way hotter than room temperature or body temperature. The blood never completely dried or looked completely dried because the bulb was so hot that it, in a way, melted to the bulb, giving it a tacky, icky consistency . . .

[christina]

The palm print (quite different than a fingerprint as far as touching something is concerned) could have been tacky if . . . ok, just think for a second . . . the lamp is on, as it usually is. It is grabbed in haste as the murder weapon. Nona is murdered and the lamp needs to be cleaned or whatever . . . maybe not even cleaned . . . could the palm print on the light bulb be tacky if, by chance, the bulb was very hot when it was touched, sort of changing the consistency of blood since the lamp was way hotter than room temperature or body temperature. The blood never completely dried or looked completely dried because the bulb was so hot that it, in a way, melted to the bulb, giving it a tacky, icky consistency . . .

The print is not the only blood on the light bulb remember. So the problem would remain- why is some blood on the light bulb dry and only the print "appeared tacky"?

[jonikay]

You know, I just don't know. Did the PCS state that only the print was tacky? Did it state that there was more blood on the light bulb than just the palm print? Unanswered questions . . . the trial will be quite interesting . . .

[jonikay]

also . . . I read posts from a while back and noticed that hawgustusgloop brought up this same point. Sorry to repeat.

[sololobo]

Christina, I understand where you may think that, but I am following what the majority of the evidence has told me. Although not all of the evidence points to kj, a lot of it does. Especially when he has not told the truth about somethings, including when he tried to call her (this is proven fact). I chose not to use the word "lie" because that makes it sound more deliberate than it may be. Could you give me an explanation of how kj was able to give a precise time for leaving his house and getting to the station, but not a more precise time for trying to call Nona? There are several open spots that definitely need explaining, but some of it is unexplainable. I believe in "innocent until proven guilty," but if there ever was a place to discuss our theories and opinions about the what and who and how, this is surely the place.

"Jones stated in his interview that he first tried to call Nona around 11:00 or 12:OO on the 15th and that Nona’s phone rang and went straight to voice mail. Affiant obtained the cell phone records for Nona’s phone and Jones’ phone and both sets of records show that the first call to Nona’s phone by Jones (after the very early morning call) was at 14:10." PCS statement

If we take the PCS statement literally, the only proven fact is Jones did not call Nona's cell phone with his cell phone until 14:10. If he was at home when he called her, would he use his cell phone or his land line? Did Nona's phone receive any incoming calls around that time period? Surely this was checked also and the PCS is sloppy in its phrasing. But, just from the PCS, we cannot say he lied.

If the battery was missing at that time, it would have gone directly to voice mail but most people would know that. So, claiming it went to voice mail does not make him any less a suspect in my opinion.

Please note, we do not have any public statements from Jones himself, only bits and pieces leaked by the police and DA. His behaviours after the time of the murder can be a matter of interpretation.

[sololobo]

That's what I thought too. The question which has probably been asked before is why did KJ try calling her when she was suppose to be taking a test. Don't make sense to me.

Good point:) I hope this question is covered during the trial. I don't know if he knew her schedule for the day but I would assume he did.

[lorettalockhorn]

Thank you for explaining further. Were you able to open the links about the gag order?


I want to make sure that you understand that I don't pretend to know what evidence the prosecution has any more than I pretend to know what the defense is going to be and I don't have contempt for the judicial process.

Yes, the links open; Gibbons was not singly faulted for causing the gag order. He was cited, as was Frost and the media coverage. Folks would have been up in arms if there hadn't been coverage by The Courier, Gazette, and others about the progress of the case. I don't have a problem with the gag order at all, and feel that it has probably been violated here on this very board to no avail, but honestly if people think that they know what is going on from reading the PCS, I just think that they are naive. Many of us have been talking about the case for over a year, and we haven't come to any definite conclusions.

[lorettalockhorn]

Good point:) I hope this question is covered during the trial. I don't know if he knew her schedule for the day but I would assume he did.


Yep, you would think that she would have reminded him during the 1:30am call that she had two tests the next day, plus her date with her "Little". I don't get why he would have expected her to pick up every time that he called. But do agree that he could have been calling her home phone from his parents' or store phones.

You are right that most of us know little about KJ's behavior since the arrest; personally I only know about the partying.

[christina]

You know, I just don't know. Did the PCS state that only the print was tacky? Did it state that there was more blood on the light bulb than just the palm print? Unanswered questions . . . the trial will be quite interesting . . .

Yes, it did. At the hearing a few weeks back, this point was brought out. It was written in a statement/report by then Chief Bacon. The hearing this Friday is for the purpose of clarifying what he meant by "appeared tacky" in his report.

[christina]

I want to make sure that you understand that I don't pretend to know what evidence the prosecution has any more than I pretend to know what the defense is going to be and I don't have contempt for the judicial process.

Yes, the links open; Gibbons was not singly faulted for causing the gag order. He was cited, as was Frost and the media coverage. Folks would have been up in arms if there hadn't been coverage by The Courier, Gazette, and others about the progress of the case. I don't have a problem with the gag order at all, and feel that it has probably been violated here on this very board to no avail, but honestly if people think that they know what is going on from reading the PCS, I just think that they are naive. Many of us have been talking about the case for over a year, and we haven't come to any definite conclusions.

There is really no need for you to explain further for my benefit, but thanks for wanting to clarify.

[christina]

Yep, you would think that she would have reminded him during the 1:30am call that she had two tests the next day, plus her date with her "Little". I don't get why he would have expected her to pick up every time that he called. But do agree that he could have been calling her home phone from his parents' or store phones.

You are right that most of us know little about KJ's behavior since the arrest; personally I only know about the partying.

Plural? Has there been another report other than the Whiteside event? Or are you stating you have seen him at a party yourself?

[lorettalockhorn]

There is really no need for you to explain further for my benefit, but thanks for wanting to clarify.


Just so you know that when you go into lecture mode, you are preaching to the choir.

[lorettalockhorn]

Plural? Has there been another report other than the Whiteside event? Or are you stating you have seen him at a party yourself?

Huh? You lost me with "plural". I only know that KJ was at a drinking party at the Whitesides. Don't know if he was actually drinking, but since he is not to imbibe alcohol unless prescribed by a physician, I would hope not. I guess it would simply look better if he maintained a more pious facade while under indictment. I have heard other rumors.

[JR2007]

Just so you know that when you go into lecture mode, you are preaching to the choir.

This is what I tell our Church choir director when she starts complaining, to our choir, about not having enough choir members.

[Mishell1383]

also . . . I read posts from a while back and noticed that hawgustusgloop brought up this same point. Sorry to repeat.
no need to be sorry, I think you have a great point, and it of course depends on where the print was located, was it closer to the bulb? Because if it was it would be hotter than a print further away. :patriot:

[lorettalockhorn]

This is what I tell our Church choir director when she starts complaining, to our choir, about not having enough choir members.


tehee That's cute!

[jonikay]

"Jones stated in his interview that he first tried to call Nona around 11:00 or 12:OO on the 15th and that Nona’s phone rang and went straight to voice mail. Affiant obtained the cell phone records for Nona’s phone and Jones’ phone and both sets of records show that the first call to Nona’s phone by Jones (after the very early morning call) was at 14:10." PCS statement

If we take the PCS statement literally, the only proven fact is Jones did not call Nona's cell phone with his cell phone until 14:10. If he was at home when he called her, would he use his cell phone or his land line? Did Nona's phone receive any incoming calls around that time period? Surely this was checked also and the PCS is sloppy in its phrasing. But, just from the PCS, we cannot say he lied.

If the battery was missing at that time, it would have gone directly to voice mail but most people would know that. So, claiming it went to voice mail does not make him any less a suspect in my opinion.

Please note, we do not have any public statements from Jones himself, only bits and pieces leaked by the police and DA. His behaviours after the time of the murder can be a matter of interpretation.
You're right about the PCS and I do tend to look deeper into things sometimes than needed, but for the sake of conversation regarding kj . . . we know he didn't call Nona from his house because he stated that he left at 1145. Also, kj says he was at the station at 12, another guy says he saw him at 1. Who knew how long he stayed. So if we try to piece together the time frame which he could have called, he could have only done it while at work and I would think (of course, we can beat a dead horse or whatever the saying, we still don't know) that if he tried to call Nona at the station (I said work earlier, I don't know if he was supposed to work, he could have been just stopping by being that he already had a job to go to that day), Blake would have been able to place him in the station at a time earlier . . . but the whole landline thing is very true. I would have figured that calls made to a landline would have been mentioned in the PCS as all, but I know that is just "probable cause" and we can't base our whole discussion on it. You're completely right.

[lorettalockhorn]

no need to be sorry, I think you have a great point, and it of course depends on where the print was located, was it closer to the bulb? Because if it was it would be hotter than a print further away. :patriot:

Agree, we're always revisiting different points. The PCS is confusing; Frost refers to the light bulb and the lamp bulb, are they two different things? I've given up on trying to figure out some of what he states.

[jonikay]

This is what I tell our Church choir director when she starts complaining, to our choir, about not having enough choir members.
I just think that is absolutely hilarious! In a funny, humorous way, of course. Not to be confused with sarcasm.

[JR2007]

Agree, we're always revisiting different points. The PCS is confusing; Frost refers to the light bulb and the lamp bulb, are they two different things? I've given up on trying to figure out some of what he states.
IIRC Didn't they originally say that there was a palm print on the lamp bulb and a finger print in blood on the base of the lamp. :confused:

[lorettalockhorn]

IIRC Didn't they originally say that there was a palm print on the lamp bulb and a finger print in blood on the base of the lamp. :confused:

From the PCS:

During affiant’s processing of the crime scene, affiant observed a floor lamp which was located within a few feet of Nona’s body. The lamp was separated in three pieces: a weighted base, a lower portion of the pole and an upper portion of the pole with the light bulb. The weighted base and the light bulb had blood on them. The light bulb had fmgerprint impressions which were made in the blood. The fingerprint impression which was made in the blood on the light bulb were compared with known prints of Kevin Jones and the print on the lamp bulb was identified as palm print impression of Kevin Jones

:confused: is right!

[JR2007]

From the PCS:

During affiant’s processing of the crime scene, affiant observed a floor lamp which was located within a few feet of Nona’s body. The lamp was separated in three pieces: a weighted base, a lower portion of the pole and an upper portion of the pole with the light bulb. The weighted base and the light bulb had blood on them. The light bulb had fmgerprint impressions which were made in the blood. The fingerprint impression which was made in the blood on the light bulb were compared with known prints of Kevin Jones and the print on the lamp bulb was identified as palm print impression of Kevin Jones

:confused: is right!

Thanks Lorretta
I think sometime in the past this was a point of confusion, because the called them fingerprints and later Identified them a palm prints, and I guess it was only blood on the base without any prints IIRC

[hawgustusgloop]

also . . . I read posts from a while back and noticed that hawgustusgloop brought up this same point. Sorry to repeat.

Actually, your point is a bit different than what I was trying to say. I was asking about the standards they were using for drying times, and whether those standards were for a lightbulb that was on, one that was off, or if it even mattered. I hadn't even considered the fact that the lightbulb might have been on at the time of the attack, or the affect it might have on the blood. So, you are not repeating. Not that there's anything wrong with repeating.

[hawgustusgloop]

So, the hearing is only 2 days away. Does anyone here plan to attend?

Is the hearing mainly being held to decide issues related to the blood evidence, or are there other matters to be settled? I was never sure if the judge decided the cell phone evidence was going to be let in (with the jury hearing about the phone's release from custody) at the last hearing, or if there was more to be discussed.

Does anyone have a guess as to what the outcome will be?

[lorettalockhorn]

So, the hearing is only 2 days away. Does anyone here plan to attend?

Is the hearing mainly being held to decide issues related to the blood evidence, or are there other matters to be settled? I was never sure if the judge decided the cell phone evidence was going to be let in (with the jury hearing about the phone's release from custody) at the last hearing, or if there was more to be discussed.

Does anyone have a guess as to what the outcome will be?


I believe this is the most current article about Friday's hearing:

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15133&Search=dirksmeyer

I haven't heard anyone say that they will be attending. Wonder if we'll have to wait until Sat or Sun for The Courier to report?

Also at issue are (I believe) issues regarding further testing (computers), additional interviews, fingerprint evidence and the business about KJ's character and other crimes.

[jonikay]

My question is, and sorry if this sounds ridiculous, why is all of the evidence coming into question at this hearing and not at the actual trial? Is there a problem with the fingerprint evidence that was collected? Is there a reason that the definition of "tacky" and expert witnesses to explain drying time, etc. are discussing this now instead of at the trial? I thought that was the point of a trial, to discuss/defend evidence. The cell phone issue, I understand. But why all of it?

[lorettalockhorn]

My question is, and sorry if this sounds ridiculous, why is all of the evidence coming into question at this hearing and not at the actual trial? Is there a problem with the fingerprint evidence that was collected? Is there a reason that the definition of "tacky" and expert witnesses to explain drying time, etc. are discussing this now instead of at the trial? I thought that was the point of a trial, to discuss/defend evidence. The cell phone issue, I understand. But why all of it?

JK, dunno for sure, but the defense is asking for these rulings to be made regarding how the evidence will be admitted at trial, for instance, it seems that they want to assert that KJ touched the bulb when he discovered Nona's body, not at any time before. Don't know why the judge should decide that instead of the jury. Not sure about the other issues either. I would think/hope that by Friday, the discovery would be complete. I am clueless about Kevin's other crimes; but I've heard some about his reputation; some bad, some not so bad.

[hOTwIREd]

"Don't throw used condoms in the toilet, really. It says it on all the condom boxes and instructions if you take the time to read. Condoms can get snagged on debris in plumbing pipes and actually back up your plumbing. Then the plumbers have to come out and roto-root your pipes with a plumbing snake and it will be pretty embarrassing when they pull out all of your condoms from the last three years!!"

http://www.ripnroll.com/used-condoms.htm

This was just one of many sites that mentioned the same thing. Guess it might be a fact. ;)

I concur. I had an embarassing situation many years ago when I was at college. The flat I shared with six other lads got a blocked toilet. The plumber was called out and when I arrived back from classes I was met by the plumber and my six flat mates all wanting to know if I had flushed a condom. The plumber gave me a lecture about how one should not flush condoms and it says so on the boxes. I think my flat mates passed the information on to my girlfriend too :eek:

[JR2007]

My question is, and sorry if this sounds ridiculous, why is all of the evidence coming into question at this hearing and not at the actual trial? Is there a problem with the fingerprint evidence that was collected? Is there a reason that the definition of "tacky" and expert witnesses to explain drying time, etc. are discussing this now instead of at the trial? I thought that was the point of a trial, to discuss/defend evidence. The cell phone issue, I understand. But why all of it?

The defense doesn't want the jury's minds contaminated with information that may give them preconceived verdicts. If the judge rules, this Friday, that certain evidence is not admissible then it can not even be brought up at trial no mater how important we think it is.

[JR2007]

I concur. I had an embarassing situation many years ago when I was at college. The flat I shared with six other lads got a blocked toilet. The plumber was called out and when I arrived back from classes I was met by the plumber and my six flat mates all wanting to know if I had flushed a condom. The plumber gave me a lecture about how one should not flush condoms and it says so on the boxes. I think my flat mates passed the information on to my girlfriend too :eek:
Hello again Hotwired, clad to see you join us again. On a more cheeky note: I wouldn't have thought that the condoms in Great Britain were big enough to cause any sewer problems.:D

[JR2007]

My theory is that there was already some blood on the light bulb from the murder that had dried. Jones came along discovered the body, and transplanted another layer of blood on the already dried blood whe he touched the lamp. That is why I think part of it had dried and only the print is tacky.

One problem with this statement is that the defense expert stated that the blood would be dry in 30 to 40 minutes and it was at least 51 minutes from the time of the discovery to the time that Frost made his statement about the blood. It is my opinion that he made his statement based on looks, to avoid damage to print.

[christina]

Just so you know that when you go into lecture mode, you are preaching to the choir.

Point taken. I have been told many a time I have the propensity to go into "lecture mode".

[christina]

Huh? You lost me with "plural". I only know that KJ was at a drinking party at the Whitesides. Don't know if he was actually drinking, but since he is not to imbibe alcohol unless prescribed by a physician, I would hope not. I guess it would simply look better if he maintained a more pious facade while under indictment. I have heard other rumors.

I was referring to the term you used- partying- with the ing on the end I assumed you were saying he had been to more than the one(plural) written about in the Courier.

[christina]

My question is, and sorry if this sounds ridiculous, why is all of the evidence coming into question at this hearing and not at the actual trial? Is there a problem with the fingerprint evidence that was collected? Is there a reason that the definition of "tacky" and expert witnesses to explain drying time, etc. are discussing this now instead of at the trial? I thought that was the point of a trial, to discuss/defend evidence. The cell phone issue, I understand. But why all of it?

The reason it is being discussed in hearings prior to the trial- the defense moved for the judge to hear the arguments to exclude them from the trial. The reasons they gave were the testing from their experts is in direct contrast to the opinion of the prosecutions expert and the eyewitness report of Chief Bacon. Thus, the judge put off the ruling until Bacon could explain what he wrote to the court.

[christina]

One problem with this statement is that the defense expert stated that the blood would be dry in 30 to 40 minutes and it was at least 51 minutes from the time of the discovery to the time that Frost made his statement about the blood. It is my opinion that he made his statement based on looks, to avoid damage to print.

The statement the defense brought up at the hearing was Chief Bacon's statement. Has the order of which police officers arrived when been published? Maybe Bacon arrived before Frost?

[christina]

My theory is that there was already some blood on the light bulb from the murder that had dried. Jones came along discovered the body, and transplanted another layer of blood on the already dried blood whe he touched the lamp. That is why I think part of it had dried and only the print is tacky.

If the jury believes the defense's expert over the prosecution's(if this evidence makes it to the trial) then they have to deal with Jones saying he does not remember touching the lamp when he found the victim.

[christina]

I concur. I had an embarassing situation many years ago when I was at college. The flat I shared with six other lads got a blocked toilet. The plumber was called out and when I arrived back from classes I was met by the plumber and my six flat mates all wanting to know if I had flushed a condom. The plumber gave me a lecture about how one should not flush condoms and it says so on the boxes. I think my flat mates passed the information on to my girlfriend too :eek:

All right all ready- the condom wasn't found in the toilet, we aren't supposed to flush condoms and hotwired uses condoms- AH!!!!! TMI!!

[christina]

I believe this is the most current article about Friday's hearing:

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15133&Search=dirksmeyer

I haven't heard anyone say that they will be attending. Wonder if we'll have to wait until Sat or Sun for The Courier to report?

Also at issue are (I believe) issues regarding further testing (computers), additional interviews, fingerprint evidence and the business about KJ's character and other crimes.

I will be doing my best to attend. What do you want me to take note of- to look for?

[FDInLaw]

Do you know for fact that Jones was drinking at this party or any other?

That's right, the poor kid might have been the designated driver this whole time. . . how do we know Kevin was drinking? And as such, I'm sure he would never let one of his best friends drive home by themselves intoxicated.

[FDInLaw]

Out of all my comments, this is the only one you can address?

Decide to remove me from "ignore"? If you actualy had me on that list, I knew it wouldn't be long before you removed me from it. I knew you wouldn't be able to resist.

BTW, I like your new snippy style. That and the sarcasm become you.

Sorry for the tangent, but back to the case now.

Oh, wait! I forgot. FD being snippy and sarcastic is NOT new! It's just that no one else can do it! YIKES! I'm sorry I took you off! . . . :chicken:





:confused:

[lorettalockhorn]

>>And, only one very well publicized incident at that.

I have rumors, I'm not necessarily referring to what was published in The Courier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lorettalockhorn
Huh? You lost me with "plural". I only know that KJ was at a drinking party at the Whitesides. Don't know if he was actually drinking, but since he is not to imbibe alcohol unless prescribed by a physician, I would hope not. I guess it would simply look better if he maintained a more pious facade while under indictment. I have heard other rumors.

>>Do you know for fact that Jones was drinking at this party or any other?

No and as I stated; I would hope not. Maybe KJ is the designated driver for his crew?

>>Oh, now. NO rumours. You yourself said. You said I said it, but that would be incorrect. I did NOT say no rumors. What I said was that some that didn't really pertain to the case were tacky and didn't belong here.

Drinking goes to character; it is allowed. It is normal to wonder about the cost of defense; people are talking about it around town, in kaffeeklatches, etc.; it is allowed. I said that rumors were okay with me as long as they were labelled as such. C'mon, you remember.

[lorettalockhorn]

I was referring to the term you used- partying- with the ing on the end I assumed you were saying he had been to more than the one(plural) written about in the Courier.

LOL Nothing to do with singular or plural:

-ing (suff) Used to form adjectives resembling present participles but not derived from verbs

That is not to say that I haven't heard of parties other than the Whiteside fiasco.

[lorettalockhorn]

That's right, the poor kid might have been the designated driver this whole time. . . how do we know Kevin was drinking? And as such, I'm sure he would never let one of his best friends drive home by themselves intoxicated.

HAHAHAHA Great minds!

[lorettalockhorn]

Well, I labeled mine as such by saying "reportedly". That means heard.
I don't think the cost and who sold what is appropriate. IMO, KJ and the murder is. What his family is having to do to help him isn't. But I don't really want to go back to this discussion.

I don't think that making malicious statements about the murder victim is appropriate either. Nona is not on trial here; Kevin is. If FH2O tells me not to speculate about the property that the Joneses sold before, during, and after Kevin killed Nona and was arrested, I will happily comply.

[jonikay]

Wouldn't you think the lamp was off and unplugged during this whole ordeal?
I never stated that the lamp was on and plugged in during the whole ordeal, ie the murder.

[jonikay]

Is the possibility of Nona "sleeping around" a rumor?

[lorettalockhorn]

Well, there you go. If she tells me not to do the same, so will I. The things Nona did up to the trial is important as well. If she were sleeping around. It'd be important to know for many reasons, so you can come down from your high horse now. I don't need you speaking down to me, or we'll end up back in the same state we were in. "After Kevin killed Nona"? You shouldn't assume. You know what they say about assuming....

I'm assuming the same as the State for now. After all, they were able to get an indictment.

Having none, one or more partners does not justify a murder. Nor is it justification to disparage a victim; not by any of those who have made the feeble attempt. It is unacceptable to me. I doubt that I am alone.

[christina]

I'm assuming the same as the State for now. After all, they were able to get an indictment.

Having none, one or more partners does not justify a murder. Nor is it justification to disparage a victim; not by any of those who have made the feeble attempt. It is unacceptable to me. I doubt that I am alone.

Since starting reading the posts here a while back, I have done a little research on victims of sexual abuse, as Ms. Dirksmeyer was. I agree with your view that it doesn't matter how many partners a person has, they don't deserve to be killed... however the victim's history of being sexually abused can possibly come into play when looking into suspects. PLEASE, PLEASE, do not read this as me attacking the victim! She was a victim twice in my opinion, the first being the 5 years of abuse she suffered as a child-inferred to be by her birth father. She displayed signs common to what I have read of victims of abuse- the cutting of herself and low self esteem- both stated in interviews with people who knew her. One other common consequence of sexual abuse is to act out sexually, be sexually active, sometimes even with strangers. So, no rumors, no facts, just conjecture, that it is possible, possible, given her victimization as a child, that she had other partners. IF, IF, IF that were the case, I would hope the police took this into account in their interviews.

[lorettalockhorn]

Since starting reading the posts here a while back, I have done a little research on victims of sexual abuse, as Ms. Dirksmeyer was. I agree with your view that it doesn't matter how many partners a person has, they don't deserve to be killed... however the victim's history of being sexually abused can possibly come into play when looking into suspects. PLEASE, PLEASE, do not read this as me attacking the victim! She was a victim twice in my opinion, the first being the 5 years of abuse she suffered as a child-inferred to be by her birth father. She displayed signs common to what I have read of victims of abuse- the cutting of herself and low self esteem- both stated in interviews with people who knew her. One other common consequence of sexual abuse is to act out sexually, be sexually active, sometimes even with strangers. So, no rumors, no facts, just conjecture, that it is possible, possible, given her victimization as a child, that she had other partners. IF, IF, IF that were the case, I would hope the police took this into account in their interviews.

I'm very aware of CSA and resultant behavior; I was a caseworker. Susie didn't mention that her comment had anything to do with Nona being a victim as a child. Susie isn't the only one who has taken potshots at Nona, I remember your earliest posts.

Nuff said.

(Except that it is interesting that at this point, you are suddenly looking for the bumbling police to have taken this or anything into account.)

[JR2007]

Since starting reading the posts here a while back, I have done a little research on victims of sexual abuse, as Ms. Dirksmeyer was. I agree with your view that it doesn't matter how many partners a person has, they don't deserve to be killed... however the victim's history of being sexually abused can possibly come into play when looking into suspects. PLEASE, PLEASE, do not read this as me attacking the victim! She was a victim twice in my opinion, the first being the 5 years of abuse she suffered as a child-inferred to be by her birth father. She displayed signs common to what I have read of victims of abuse- the cutting of herself and low self esteem- both stated in interviews with people who knew her. One other common consequence of sexual abuse is to act out sexually, be sexually active, sometimes even with strangers. So, no rumors, no facts, just conjecture, that it is possible, possible, given her victimization as a child, that she had other partners. IF, IF, IF that were the case, I would hope the police took this into account in their interviews.

In one of the articles I believe it stated that, within the first couple weeks the police interviewed at least 50 people, even though at this time they had most all the evidence already compiled against KJ. I believe there were 3 or 4 investigators following leads and doing the interviewing. Since then who knows how many people they've interviewed.

[sololobo]

You're right about the PCS and I do tend to look deeper into things sometimes than needed, but for the sake of conversation regarding kj . . . we know he didn't call Nona from his house because he stated that he left at 1145. Also, kj says he was at the station at 12, another guy says he saw him at 1. Who knew how long he stayed. So if we try to piece together the time frame which he could have called, he could have only done it while at work and I would think (of course, we can beat a dead horse or whatever the saying, we still don't know) that if he tried to call Nona at the station (I said work earlier, I don't know if he was supposed to work, he could have been just stopping by being that he already had a job to go to that day), Blake would have been able to place him in the station at a time earlier . . . but the whole landline thing is very true. I would have figured that calls made to a landline would have been mentioned in the PCS as all, but I know that is just "probable cause" and we can't base our whole discussion on it. You're completely right.

He said he called at 11:00 or 12:00 and he claims he was at his house until 11:45. There was a 45 minute window of oppurtunity for him to call from his house (land line?), a 15 minute time frame to call from his vehicle (cell phone), and only one minute to call from the station (land line?).

[FDInLaw]

one day and counting!

[christina]

I'm very aware of CSA and resultant behavior; I was a caseworker. Susie didn't mention that her comment had anything to do with Nona being a victim as a child. Susie isn't the only one who has taken potshots at Nona, I remember your earliest posts.

Nuff said.

(Except that it is interesting that at this point, you are suddenly looking for the bumbling police to have taken this or anything into account.)

You are correct, I made a retort months ago in defense, after the Whiteside/ incident. It was NOT intended as a potshot at Nona however. I left the blog at that time because it turned into a negative and I did not want to be involved in that.
I rejoined the blog after the hearing in hopes of being able to bring something positive to it. I have made every effort to do so.
I took care in my wording of the post, again, my intent is in no way to demean Ms Dirksmeyer. I do believe that behavoir of a victim of child abuse can possibly be relevant.
You state you are a case worker, which tells me you have knowledge of this possiblity. Why did you chose to post in the tone you did rather than bring something helpful or positive?

[christina]

one day and counting!

It looks like I will be able to attend the hearing, at least part of it. Is there anything specific you want me to look/listen for?

[christina]

In one of the articles I believe it stated that, within the first couple weeks the police interviewed at least 50 people, even though at this time they had most all the evidence already compiled against KJ. I believe there were 3 or 4 investigators following leads and doing the interviewing. Since then who knows how many people they've interviewed.

Thanks for reminding me. I now remember reading that also.

[FDInLaw]

It looks like I will be able to attend the hearing, at least part of it. Is there anything specific you want me to look/listen for?

I can't think of anything. . . glad you will be there though! Come back and give us the scoop! :)

[lorettalockhorn]

In one of the articles I believe it stated that, within the first couple weeks the police interviewed at least 50 people, even though at this time they had most all the evidence already compiled against KJ. I believe there were 3 or 4 investigators following leads and doing the interviewing. Since then who knows how many people they've interviewed.

I've never seen it reported Nona was promiscuous, but if she was still in counseling, as suggested by a link that Sololobo (I think) put up, I would hope that RPD interviewed her therapist to gather any information about any dysfunctional behavior. The fifty or so people interviewed could well include experts who understand aberrantions and might lead LE to anyone that Nona was afraid of, or mistakenly trusted. However, I don't recognize the names of any psych types on the witness list.

[hawgustusgloop]

>snip<

The things Nona did up to the trial is important as well.

Sadly, Nona has not had the opportunity to do any "things" for over a year and a half. I sincerely hope we are FINALLY going to see Justice4Nona!

[FDInLaw]

Sadly, Nona has not had the opportunity to do any "things" for over a year and a half. I sincerely hope we are FINALLY going to see Justice4Nona! Sadly, some folks seem to miss this point. ((((HUGS)))) ~ FD

Justice4Nona!

[JR2007]

It looks like I will be able to attend the hearing, at least part of it. Is there anything specific you want me to look/listen for?
I guess the hearing is to be in RSVL, and start at 9:00 AM ?

[FDInLaw]

I guess the hearing is to be in RSVL, and start at 9:00 AM ?
Yep (as far as I know). Are you gonna go?

[JR2007]

Yep (as far as I know). Are you gonna go?
Who knows, it could happen.

[lorettalockhorn]

Anything that I post is my opinion unless I provide a link or a quote. I see no need to add IMO to each and every statement that I make. My responses are frequently made in the tone that I perceive that a statement was made.

To my knowledge, it has never been asserted by LE or the state that Nona's behavior or relationships (other than with Kevin), led to her death. I really only have the indictment to go by at this point. The rumor of Nona's promiscuity was not made in that vein.

When I was a caseworker, long ago and far away, it was my observation that victims of CSA conduct their adult lives in very different ways; there is no reason to assume that any two would behave in the same manner.

[hawgustusgloop]

>snip<

Whom she interacted with will be an important factor leading up to the events of the murder, whether if you care to admit it or not.:shrug:



Whether I care to admit it or not? I have been running my mouth all along saying (as hinted at in the PCS) that the 11:04 text message from someone (who most likely was not K.Jo) was what set him off. I think whom Nona interacted with had everything to do with K.Jo's motive for the crime.

[jonikay]

So, was Nona sexually or physically abused or both? Also, let's not forget that Nona used her difficult past as her platform for all of the pageants she was involved in. She found a way to possibly touch lives through her tragedies and from everything that I have ever read about Nona, she did touch lives in a positive way. So, I don't think that many of the symptoms of child abuse that develop through adulthood apply to her, being that she publicly made the best of her situation in hopes of "breaking the cycle." That was her whole point in the pageant business. Also, isn't it true that children that have been abused in the past sometimes find themselves in difficult relationships themselves? For instance, they end up with a person that emulates the same behavior as the past abuser? That is something to think about as well.

[FDInLaw]

Who knows, it could happen.Cool Beans! I hope you can go! :)

[jonikay]

Whether I care to admit it or not? I have been running my mouth all along saying (as hinted at in the PCS) that the 11:04 text message from someone (who most likely was not K.Jo) was what set him off. I think whom Nona interacted with had everything to do with K.Jo's motive for the crime.
I think the same thing, hawg. Perhaps she was trying to get out the relationship and was talking to a guy or two. Perhaps she was good friends with several guys that texted back and forth with her all of the time. We know she was very popular. It seems to me that she had a network of friends and family that always supported her.

[lorettalockhorn]

Whether I care to admit it or not? I have been running my mouth all along saying (as hinted at in the PCS) that the 11:04 text message from someone (who most likely was not K.Jo) was what set him off. I think whom Nona interacted with had everything to do with K.Jo's motive for the crime.


Exactly. The prosecution is not required to provide a motive, but Nona's relationships and independent spirit could very well be what set him off. He may very well have been surreptitiously watching her and reading her emails, texts, etc.

[jonikay]

Was the 1104 text message ever opened?

[hawgustusgloop]

Was the 1104 text message ever opened?

I believe the Probable Cause Statement says that the message was opened but not responded to. Also, it says that the affiant believes Nona was killed shortly after 11:04.

[hawgustusgloop]

Here is the specific language from the Probable Cause Statement:

"At 11:04, Nona received a text message which was apparently opened but not responded to by Nona. At 12:5 8 she received a text-message but it was neither opened nor responded to. Affiant believes that Nona was killed very soon after 11:04."

[FDInLaw]

Was the 1104 text message ever opened?

Yes. This is from the PCS:


"The Medical Examiner has opined that the approximate time of Nona’s death was from approximately lO:OO to approximately 12:30. The last known contact Nona had with a person other than her killer occurred at 10:25 when she finished a phone conversation with a professor. During that 3 to 4 minute conversation, Nona confirmed to the professor that she was at her apartment. At 11:04, Nona received a text message which was apparently opened but not responded to by Nona. At 12:5 8 she received a text-message but it was neither opened nor responded to. Affiant believes that Nona was killed very soon after 11:04. The Medical Examiner stated that the homicide to include all non-lethal wounds could have been completed within a matter of minutes."

[jonikay]

Here is the specific language from the Probable Cause Statement:

"At 11:04, Nona received a text message which was apparently opened but not responded to by Nona. At 12:5 8 she received a text-message but it was neither opened nor responded to. Affiant believes that Nona was killed very soon after 11:04."
Oh yes, I remember . . .

[FDInLaw]

I believe the Probable Cause Statement says that the message was opened but not responded to. Also, it says that the affiant believes Nona was killed shortly after 11:04.

Here is the specific language from the Probable Cause Statement:

"At 11:04, Nona received a text message which was apparently opened but not responded to by Nona. At 12:5 8 she received a text-message but it was neither opened nor responded to. Affiant believes that Nona was killed very soon after 11:04."
You beat me that time! :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

Anything that I post is my opinion unless I provide a link or a quote. I see no need to add IMO to each and every statement that I make. My responses are frequently made in the tone that I perceive that a statement was made.

To my knowledge, it has never been asserted by LE or the state that Nona's behavior or relationships (other than with Kevin), led to her death. I really only have the indictment to go by at this point. The rumor of Nona's promiscuity was not made in that vein.

When I was a caseworker, long ago and far away, it was my observation that victims of CSA conduct their adult lives in very different ways; there is no reason to assume that any two would behave in the same manner.

My apologies to everyone who found this post to be rude.

[optimumprimal78]

I just want to add this but since there is talk of Nona's other relationships I will. If that comes out to be the main reason for the murder it would make KJ a (possible/probable) hypocrite. Keep in mind that they were about 2 hours away from each other (she was in Russellville going to school and he was going to Fayetteville). I would be willing to be that while he was in school he dated other people. It would be hard to believe that during all that time that he spent at the U of A was just studying or hanging out with a couple of buddies. He surely didn't make that trip every weekend to see her. Hasn't their relationship been seen as on-again, off-again?

[FDInLaw]

Perhaps the person who sent this message
is responsible for the murder.
Perhaps it is not just something that set
Jones off to cause the murder. Well, there are a lot of things we do not know. Of most importance, the identity of the person that made that call. Then of course, did they have opportunity and motive? Is there any physical evidence that places them at the scene? Surely, we can hope to have some (if not all) of these questions answered during the trial.

[Mishell1383]

I just want to add this but since there is talk of Nona's other relationships I will. If that comes out to be the main reason for the murder it would make KJ a (possible/probable) hypocrite. Keep in mind that they were about 2 hours away from each other (she was in Russellville going to school and he was going to Fayetteville). I would be willing to be that while he was in school he dated other people. It would be hard to believe that during all that time that he spent at the U of A was just studying or hanging out with a couple of buddies. He surely didn't make that trip every weekend to see her. Hasn't their relationship been seen as on-again, off-again?
I totally agree, and it looks like the defense is going to have a field day with this, but I think the prosecution has enough to retaliate on that subject. I hope anway, imo :confused:

[Mishell1383]

I don't think the implication was that
that was why Jones did it.
I think it was that if she was seeing
others or many others that perhaps
one of them are responsible.
LOLOLOLLOLOL suga you sing the sugar, uhuhuhuhuhuh honey honey song perfectly!!! LOLOLOLOL that made me laugh out loud i love it! :beer:

[lorettalockhorn]

I totally agree, and it looks like the defense is going to have a field day with this, but I think the prosecution has enough to retaliate on that subject. I hope anway, imo :confused:

I have read that when the defense is weak; the victim is often put on trial. The problem with that is that it may enrage the jury.

At this point, I can only assume that both Nona's and Kevin's other dates/friends/partners/lovers/paramours/whatever have ironclad alibis. If jealousy of Kevin's and Nona's relationship is the motive, and KJ's alibi can be shored up, then I would have to back up a little and consider other females as the perpetrator as well as any other men.

Of course, I'm still stuck with the bloody print on the lightbulb and KJ's odd behavior upon the discovery.

[FDInLaw]

Back up just a minute.
No one said the victim was going
to be put on trial.
Are you naive enough to actually
think the defense is weak?!?
:lol: Come on now!
Time will tell. :rolleyes:

[FDInLaw]

LOLOLOLLOLOL suga you sing the sugar, uhuhuhuhuhuh honey honey song perfectly!!! LOLOLOLOL that made me laugh out loud i love it! :beer:

I like the new sig too! Suga, weren't you here when Sassy Pants called us all fruitcakes? You could add that too. It's a real badge of honor! :D

[lorettalockhorn]

Back up just a minute.
No one said the victim was going
to be put on trial.
Are you naive enough to actually
think the defense is weak?!?
:lol: Come on now!

Well, I don't actually know what the defense is. You?

I was responding to the remark about the defense's possible field day and said when the defense is weak. Trying the victim is a technique that can be used, but it can backfire. Never said since the defense is weak.

I don't pretend to know what evidence the State or the defense has to offer at this point, just going by what I've read. You?

This post is my opinion, assumption, supposition, etc. ad infinitum

[jonikay]

Back up just a minute.
No one said the victim was going
to be put on trial.
Are you naive enough to actually
think the defense's case is weak?!?
:lol: Come on now!
suga, I am sure I am not the only one who would like some insight into the defense's case. After all, it would make for a more well-rounded and efficient discussion into the crime. Are you one that can give us insight? We haven't heard much about the arguments of the defense . . .

[lorettalockhorn]

suga, I am sure I am not the only one who would like some insight into the defense's case. After all, it would make for a more well-rounded and efficient discussion into the crime. Are you one that can give us insight? We haven't heard much about the arguments of the defense . . .

She sounds like she has insight to me!

[FDInLaw]

She sounds like she has insight to me!

Or wishful thinking. . . one or the other! :D

(Bad FD :punch: . . . I know Suga can take a joke.)

[hawgustusgloop]

Back up just a minute.
No one said the victim was going
to be put on trial.
Are you naive enough to actually
think the defense's case is weak?!?
:lol: Come on now!



What do you know about the defense's case that makes it so strong that anyone who might even hypothetically suggest it could be weak would be naive? I haven't read much about what their case will consist of but, then again, I am not even remotely connected to this case.

[christina]

Sadly, Nona has not had the opportunity to do any "things" for over a year and a half. I sincerely hope we are FINALLY going to see Justice4Nona!

I can only imagine the loss her family, friends and loved ones feel. I too hope they will find some solace after the trial is over.

[christina]

So, was Nona sexually or physically abused or both? Also, let's not forget that Nona used her difficult past as her platform for all of the pageants she was involved in. She found a way to possibly touch lives through her tragedies and from everything that I have ever read about Nona, she did touch lives in a positive way. So, I don't think that many of the symptoms of child abuse that develop through adulthood apply to her, being that she publicly made the best of her situation in hopes of "breaking the cycle." That was her whole point in the pageant business. Also, isn't it true that children that have been abused in the past sometimes find themselves in difficult relationships themselves? For instance, they end up with a person that emulates the same behavior as the past abuser? That is something to think about as well.

I have been trying to find the link to the article of the interview of some teachers where this is discussed. Can anyone help me? I think it was a TV station maybe, I couldn't find it in the Courier archives.

[christina]

What do you know about the defense's case that makes it so strong that anyone who might even hypothetically suggest it could be weak would be naive? I haven't read much about what their case will consist of but, then again, I am not even remotely connected to this case.

I don't think the defense would be wise to share their case before trial. We got to see a small glimpse at the last hearing and might see some tomorrow.

[FDInLaw]

:punch:

Better

watch

out,

now! :lol: If I didn't have a sense of humor I would've gone insane by now.

[jonikay]

I don't think the defense would be wise to share their case before trial. We got to see a small glimpse at the last hearing and might see some tomorrow.
I say we let suga answer that question for us . . . that's just IMO!

[FDInLaw]

I say we let suga answer that question for us . . . that's just IMO!

Not gonna let Suga off easy I see! :biggrin:

[FDInLaw]

Just noted that you added "fruitcake" to your sig. . . now that I think of it, the sassy thing happened quite awhile ago. . . like back when KG** was still here! ;)

[FDInLaw]

Good, ol' kg**! Anything else you think I should add to my sig?

Nah, no new names here. We usually wait for a troll to do that (it's often the only contribution they make). :biggrin:

Seriously though, with a hearing tomorrow and the trial in a few weeks there will be a lot to discuss for once. It's been a long wait and I'm glad we will all finally have some questions answered.

May God intervene and true justice prevail. :patriot:

[jonikay]

Back up just a minute.
No one said the victim was going
to be put on trial.
Are you naive enough to actually
think the defense's case is weak?!?
:lol: Come on now!
So, suga, to answer my question . . . is it safe to say that you don't know any more about the defense's case than we do? That the "naive" comment was simply unfounded? If you choose to ignore my post, my question will be answered.

[jonikay]

You can presume or ASSume whatever you like and all I will do in response is bat my pretty little eyelashes at you. ;)
That is fine if you wish to make a comment without backing it up. There is a gag order in effect, so it is smart to keep your knowledge of the defense as low-key as possible. I guess your temper got the best of you with the comment about the defense. Good day.

[hawgustusgloop]

I don't think the defense would be wise to share their case before trial. We got to see a small glimpse at the last hearing and might see some tomorrow.

While I am sure they read this board as much as I do, I would hope no one closely associated with the defense is stupid enough to post here. It seems like every time there is a hearing, another CL Message Board poster is "outed."

[FDInLaw]

You can presume or ASSume whatever you like and all I will do in response is bat my pretty little eyelashes at you. ;) So, either you don't have any real reasons (any more than the rest of us do) to believe the defense has a great case OR it's possible that you should not be posting here. Either way, you sure are cute when you bat your eyelashes like that.

:D

[hawgustusgloop]

In my opinion, no. It is just distraction. I don't think suga has said anything meaningful about this case. If anyone cares to, I suggest you click on suga's name and "find all posts by suga." Read them all, and see how many have something to do with the details of this case.

I still stand by this statement.

[christina]

While I am sure they read this board as much as I do, I would hope no one closely associated with the defense is stupid enough to post here. It seems like every time there is a hearing, another CL Message Board poster is "outed."

Do you think the prosecution or police still read this board?
I missed it, who else besides the Courier reporter has been "outed"?

[lorettalockhorn]

So, suga, to answer my question . . . is it safe to say that you don't know any more about the defense's case than we do? That the "naive" comment was simply unfounded? If you choose to ignore my post, my question will be answered.


I think that she misread my post above. I said when the defense is weak. I never meant to construe since the defense is weak. I work pretty hard on making my posts succinct, but I'm still not very good at it. So much for my linguistics minor.

[hawgustusgloop]

Do you think the prosecution or police still read this board?
I missed it, who else besides the Courier reporter has been "outed"?

I would bet a thousand CrimeLibrary bucks that they still read this. If for no other reason, to make sure everyone is abiding by the gag order. Also, I said it "seems" like every time there is a hearing, a CL poster is "outed."

[jonikay]

I would bet a thousand CrimeLibrary bucks that they still read this. If for no other reason, to make sure everyone is abiding by the gag order. Also, I said it "seems" like every time there is a hearing, a CL poster is "outed."
I'll second that bet and raise you two thousand CL bucks . . .

[FDInLaw]

Too bad there is not a batting eyelashes icon! How about this one?

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9iby4GcJIRGkaUAxAWjzbkF/SIG=12s646sf0/EXP=1183151644/**http%3A//www.jme-forum.net/style_emoticons/yahoo/Batting%2520Eyelashes.gif

[sololobo]

I have been trying to find the link to the article of the interview of some teachers where this is discussed. Can anyone help me? I think it was a TV station maybe, I couldn't find it in the Courier archives.

This may be it, Christina.

http://rjames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1145

[christina]

I think that she misread my post above. I said when the defense is weak. I never meant to construe since the defense is weak. I work pretty hard on making my posts succinct, but I'm still not very good at it. So much for my linguistics minor.

Do you really have a linguistics minor?

[christina]

Take note jonikay- I think this is what you asked about. Part 1

Slain beauty queen had overcome many demons, friends, family say

Posted on Sunday, January 29, 2006

RUSSELLVILLE — At 19, Nona Dirksmeyer had the looks of a beauty queen, the brains of an honor student and the talents of an aspiring music teacher.

But there was also a moresecretive Nona, one whose successes belied a tormented past that people close to her say she was coming to terms with — before someone killed her Dec. 15.

Six weeks have passed since the crime. No one has been arrested, though Russellville police announced Dec. 22 that they had a suspect. Prosecuting Attorney David Gibbons got the investigative file on Jan. 17, when police asked him to file a first-degree murder charge.

Because additional reports were expected, and because Gibbons might request more information, the file was not being released to the public, police said.

Gibbons, of the 5 th Judicial District, could not be reached for comment last week. His office said he was still reviewing the police file. The prosecutor said shortly after receiving the documents, contained in three 3-inch binders, it could take him “a week, to 10 days to 10 weeks” before he decided whether to file charges.

Nona’s boyfriend, his mother and a friend reported finding her body in the living room of her off-campus apartment. A preliminary autopsy indicated she died of “multiple blunt- and sharp-force injuries,” including a stab wound in the back right side of her neck and superficial cuts.

Russellville Police Chief James Bacon has said there was no sign of a sexual assault.

Friends and family say the young woman who befriended stray cats and volunteered to help children less fortunate than she was a victim long before her nude body was found.

They say the blond Arkansas Tech University student chose child abuse as her platform in the 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant for a painful, personal reason : Nona confided to a girlfriend years earlier that she had been sexually abused as a child.

Nona later told her mother, Carol Dipert, that the assaults by an adult male began in 1991, when she was 5, and continued for about five years. Dipert also found out that her daughter, then about 14, was a self-mutilator — cutting her abdomen, arms, legs, and, ultimately, a wrist.

Dipert first learned of both the abuse revelations and the self-cutting from Margie Huckabay, a second-grade teacher in Russellville and the mother of Nona’s best friend, Chelsea.

“I had never had any suspicions whatsoever,” Dipert, a nurse, said during a recent interview in her Russellville home.

But she was immediately convinced of the truth of what Huckabay and Nona told her.

“I knew something was wrong,” she said, noting that her daughter had been showing signs of social anxiety.

“She’d think people were staring at her, mostly laughing at her,” Dipert said.

She had taken her daughter to the family doctor, but Dipert says he, too, didn’t understand the severity of the problem. After the cuttings and reports of past abuse came to light, Dipert saw that Nona got counseling and psychiatric help. She didn’t go to the police ; the man Nona accused was dead.

Nona had flashbacks and nightmares relating to the abuse when she was a sophomore in high school, Dipert said. She was still seeing a psychiatrist when she died.

PAGEANTS AND MUSIC Nona’s interest in beauty pageants arose, in part, from her desire to overcome self-consciousness and shyness and, as she told her mother, because she was tired of “feeling bad all the time.” It wasn’t out of any narcissism that Nona sought out a pageant coach and entered competitions, according to Dipert. “Nona never thought she was that pretty. Everyone else did.” Rather, Nona hoped that “if she won Miss Arkansas, she’d be able to go around to the schools and educate people about child abuse,” Dipert said. Initially, Dipert said, Nona picked sexual abuse of children as her platform but scaled it back. “She said people didn’t want to hear” about sex crimes, Dipert said.

Dipert believes the competitions helped her daughter, who was the reigning Miss Petit Jean Valley when she died.

“She was doing really well, I thought.”

Nona, who was born Dec. 26, 1985, grew up in the Pope County town of Dover. Her father, Paul Dirksmeyer, died of renal failure in 1996.

Nona excelled at Dover High School. She was an honor student, a flutist who made the All-Region Band from the eighth grade on, a gifted soprano in the school choir. She portrayed Ado Annie in the school play Oklahoma. She earned more than $ 5, 000 in college scholarships.

“She was a great musician and just a good kid.... She worked hard, and she had a lot of natural ability,” said her band director, Jeff Marlow. Nona came by her love of music naturally. Paul Dirksmeyer was a music professor. Dipert has completed all her work toward a doctorate of musical arts except for writing a monograph. Mother and daughter listened to music together ; both sang in the church choir. Nona had held a couple parttime jobs, working as a waitress. She drove her own car, a silver Mustang.

SECRETS Nona was in high school when Margie Huckabay heard about the self-cutting from Chelsea, who said she had been keeping it secret, at Nona’s request, for a couple of years. “I stepped in because I was afraid she would hurt herself,” Margie Huckabay said in a telephone interview.

“I picked her [Nona ] up one day, and she had all these Band-Aids [on her legs ],” Huckabay recalled. “I asked her what was going on, and she told me.”

But Nona first claimed the injuries were cat scratches. Huckabay said she told Nona that she should tell her mother and get counseling.

[christina]

Dipert, a widow then, said she had been working full time at nights. Nona had cut herself with razor blades on her stomach “where I couldn’t see it,” she said. Even after Dipert knew the truth, Nona tried to hide the cuts, concealing them sometimes with long sleeves. “I think she wanted help.... but she didn’t know how to tell me,” said Dipert, who has since remarried. When Nona was about 16, Dipert said, she cut a wrist and required stitches. “I think it really scared her when she saw all the blood,” and she didn’t cut herself again, Dipert said. Later, there were times her daughter would tell her, “‘ I feel like cutting myself, but I won’t. ’ When she felt bad, she’d always call me,” her mother said.

‘THAT’S NOT ME’ While the wrist-cutting could be seen as a suicide attempt, Dipert said a psychiatrist explained that it also could have been Nona’s way of trying to separate her body from herself — a “that’s-not-me” attitude.

Dr. James Harris, professor of child and adolescent psychiatry at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, called self-cutting “an act of desperation,” but not one aimed at suicide.

“The cutting is delicate in a sense,” Harris explained. “They tend not to be deep cuts. If something happens that is worse, it tends to be much more by accident.”

Self-cutting “may be a way to express how bad they [adolescents ] feel about themselves and their body,” said Dr. Larry K. Brown, director of research at Bradley / Hasbro Children’s Research Center in Providence, R. I.

Brown, who also is director of child and adolescent psychiatry research at Rhode Island Hospital, said some adolescents who were sexually abused learned “to numb out, as it were” as a way to dissociate from the experience.

“Later in life, when they get in situations where they’re... anxious, they may again dissociate, numb out,” he said. “Ironically, the sensation of pain brings them out” of the numbness. Self-cutting among adolescents is probably on the increase, but precise data are hard to come by, according to Brown. “It may be as many as 15 percent of kids have done some type of self-inflicted cutting,” he said.

DOING BETTER At times, Nona’s injuries were obvious to those around her. Arkansas Tech University flute teacher Karen Futterer of Dover, who gave Nona private music lessons until her freshman year in college, remembers her as a “kind-hearted and thoughtful” but “pretty private” person. Still, Futterer said, she was aware of the self-cutting and sex abuse. “I knew, in high school, she had been somewhat destructive,” Futterer said.

One or two other students had come to Futterer concerned about Nona, and Futterer said she saw some of the cuts on the teenager’s arms. “If she’d come into some lessons and say she was having a bad week, bad time, we might just sit and talk,” Futterer said.

By all accounts, Nona was a compassionate person who was doing better and seemed happier near the end of her life.

“She was a very caring, empathetic kind of person who didn’t want to see anything go hungry,” her mother said.

She fed stray cats outside her apartment.

She was a Big Sister to a young girl she had planned to have dinner with on the day she died. “She said this little girl didn’t have just a great life,” Huckabay said.

Futterer believes Nona was finally past the worst of her troubles. “At Tech, she had seemed to get a real handle on her life. She was very happy and very sure of where she was going.” “ This was probably the best she had ever done, ” Huckabay agreed. “I just saw a huge change in Nona’s self-esteem after she” got into the pageants.

THE MESSAGE Nona and Adrielle Churchill of Dover, who was first runnerup in the 2005 Miss Arkansas pageant, had been friends since the eighth or ninth grade. “I knew a lot about her childhood and her past,” said Churchill, who helped get Nona interested in pageants. Nona was “very tender... very emotional” in talking about her child-abuse platform, Churchill said.

The beauty pageants helped, Churchill believes. Nona had entered at least a dozen.

“She was at a turning point... where anything that may have happened in her life, she had come to the point where she recognized she needed to talk about it. I feel like a lot of it was past her.”

Said Dipert, “I look back and I see what she accomplished, and I’m amazed.”

Now, the mother hopes to carry on her daughter’s message about child abuse. “I think if people will start talking about this more, maybe things like this won’t happen so much.... People keep things like this to themselves... because it’s embarrassing.... My point is, it can happen to anybody, any level of society.”

After Nona’s death, her mother found some quotations Nona had jotted down. Among them : “Know only joy then you will never know sadness,” and “Life is mystery. Be a detective.”

[Mishell1383]

Nah, no new names here. We usually wait for a troll to do that (it's often the only contribution they make). :biggrin:

Seriously though, with a hearing tomorrow and the trial in a few weeks there will be a lot to discuss for once. It's been a long wait and I'm glad we will all finally have some questions answered.

May God intervene and true justice prevail. :patriot:
LOLOL I like to call them drive by poster bashers!!

[jonikay]

The article was an interesting read. It seems like she has always had to fight to stay happy. This caught my eye:
"Futterer believes Nona was finally past the worst of her troubles. “At Tech, she had seemed to get a real handle on her life. She was very happy and very sure of where she was going.” “ This was probably the best she had ever done, ” Huckabay agreed. “I just saw a huge change in Nona’s self-esteem after she” got into the pageants."

I don't think that the change of schools and the pageants, etc. was the only huge change Nona was going through. This must have greatly impacted her relationship with Kevin . . .

[hawgustusgloop]

The article was an interesting read. It seems like she has always had to fight to stay happy. This caught my eye:
"Futterer believes Nona was finally past the worst of her troubles. “At Tech, she had seemed to get a real handle on her life. She was very happy and very sure of where she was going.” “ This was probably the best she had ever done, ” Huckabay agreed. “I just saw a huge change in Nona’s self-esteem after she” got into the pageants."

I don't think that the change of schools and the pageants, etc. was the only huge change Nona was going through. This must have greatly impacted her relationship with Kevin . . .

Yes, and perhaps being away from Kevin and meeting new people helped contribute to the new boost in her self-esteem and self-assuredness?

[christina]

The article was an interesting read. It seems like she has always had to fight to stay happy. This caught my eye:
"Futterer believes Nona was finally past the worst of her troubles. “At Tech, she had seemed to get a real handle on her life. She was very happy and very sure of where she was going.” “ This was probably the best she had ever done, ” Huckabay agreed. “I just saw a huge change in Nona’s self-esteem after she” got into the pageants."

I don't think that the change of schools and the pageants, etc. was the only huge change Nona was going through. This must have greatly impacted her relationship with Kevin . . .

If Jones committed this crime, he did a horrible thing and should be punished.
Before any of you jump on this- again- I am not in anyway meaning to denegrate Ms Dirksmeyer nor her memory.
One of the problems I have had now and in the past reading some posts, is the characterizing of Jones as "less than" Ms Dirksmeyer, not worth being her boyfriend. Like it is a foregone conclusion that he is a bad guy and the victim was dumping him. First, no evidence of this has been proven and since neither side has to prove motive, this supposition is not necessarily beneficial.
He is possibly a good guy. He is possibly a good guy that went haywire for a minute and committed a heinous crime.

[hawgustusgloop]

If Jones committed this crime, he did a horrible thing and should be punished.
Before any of you jump on this- again- I am not in anyway meaning to denegrate Ms Dirksmeyer nor her memory.
One of the problems I have had now and in the past reading some posts, is the characterizing of Jones as "less than" Ms Dirksmeyer, not worth being her boyfriend. Like it is a foregone conclusion that he is a bad guy and the victim was dumping him. First, no evidence of this has been proven and since neither side has to prove motive, this supposition is not necessarily beneficial.
He is possibly a good guy. He is possibly a good guy that went haywire for a minute and committed a heinous crime.

You are correct that some have posted things (myself certainly included) to suggest that maybe K.Jo wasn't "good enough" for Nona or something along those lines, and you do have a valid point. It could be totally unfair. After all, Nona did choose to date him. And, for all that we know, he could be innocent of this crime and possibly be a good guy. However I disagree with the statement, "He is possibly a good guy that went haywire for a minute and committed a heinous crime." Because to my way of thinking, if he DID commit this crime in a fit of rage and he WAS still a good guy, he would have called 911 immediately after it happened or at least confessed a long time ago instead of dragging the families and a bunch of expensive attorneys into a year-and-a-half-long ordeal.

All my opinion only.

[christina]

You are correct that some have posted things (myself certainly included) to suggest that maybe K.Jo wasn't "good enough" for Nona or something along those lines, and you do have a valid point. It could be totally unfair. After all, Nona did choose to date him. And, for all that we know, he could be innocent of this crime and possibly be a good guy. However I disagree with the statement, "He is possibly a good guy that went haywire for a minute and committed a heinous crime." Because to my way of thinking, if he DID commit this crime in a fit of rage and he WAS still a good guy, he would have called 911 immediately after it happened or at least confessed a long time ago instead of dragging the families and a bunch of expensive attorneys into a year-and-a-half-long ordeal.

All my opinion only.

Very vaild thoughts(opinions!).

[Mishell1383]

When it comes down to it... Its all about Justice4Nona! :rose:

[FDInLaw]

You are correct that some have posted things (myself certainly included) to suggest that maybe K.Jo wasn't "good enough" for Nona or something along those lines, and you do have a valid point. It could be totally unfair. After all, Nona did choose to date him. And, for all that we know, he could be innocent of this crime and possibly be a good guy. However I disagree with the statement, "He is possibly a good guy that went haywire for a minute and committed a heinous crime." Because to my way of thinking, if he DID commit this crime in a fit of rage and he WAS still a good guy, he would have called 911 immediately after it happened or at least confessed a long time ago instead of dragging the families and a bunch of expensive attorneys into a year-and-a-half-long ordeal.

All my opinion only.
Excellent post, Hawg!

[lorettalockhorn]

You are correct that some have posted things (myself certainly included) to suggest that maybe K.Jo wasn't "good enough" for Nona or something along those lines, and you do have a valid point. It could be totally unfair. After all, Nona did choose to date him. And, for all that we know, he could be innocent of this crime and possibly be a good guy. However I disagree with the statement, "He is possibly a good guy that went haywire for a minute and committed a heinous crime." Because to my way of thinking, if he DID commit this crime in a fit of rage and he WAS still a good guy, he would have called 911 immediately after it happened or at least confessed a long time ago instead of dragging the families and a bunch of expensive attorneys into a year-and-a-half-long ordeal.

All my opinion only.

Well said, Hawg.

[sololobo]

"I love you, Kevin".....perhaps the last words Nona communicated to her boyfriend and companion of five years. Five years, an eternity for youth, they dated, the same five years that saw Nona turn from a depressed cutter to the wonderful person she became. Five years in which her nightmare turned into a world of happiness and success. Five years which began when she and Kevin became a couple....

Nona overcame much adversity in those five long years. Yes, she must have been a strong young lady but she must have had a loving, supportive family, some really great "stand by you" friends and perhaps....., just perhaps, an understanding, loving boyfriend, Kevin.

Perhaps......, just perhaps, Kevin is not the monstrous ogre we would like to believe. Perhaps......., just perhaps, he is merely an all American boy growing up in small town, USA who loved baseball, video games and most of all, Nona. Perhaps........, just perhaps, he did not commit this heinous crime.........

I am so reluctant to believe anyone who knew Nona, who love her for so very long could end such a wonderful life. I want,…no, I need to believe some monstrous, evil, anonymous predator took from our midst a gift, a gift from God Almighty Himself, a gift to our community, a gift named Nona. Maybe this is not to be and the trial will determine otherwise. But until then I can only hear, echoing through my mind, these resounding last words...."I love you, Kevin." Nona Dirksmeyer, December 15, 2005. What better character witness could Kevin have?

[lorettalockhorn]

"I love you, Kevin".....perhaps the last words Nona communicated to her boyfriend and companion of five years. Five years, an eternity for youth, they dated, the same five years that saw Nona turn from a depressed cutter to the wonderful person she became. Five years in which her nightmare turned into a world of happiness and success. Five years which began when she and Kevin became a couple....

Nona overcame much adversity in those five long years. Yes, she must have been a strong young lady but she must have had a loving, supportive family, some really great "stand by you" friends and perhaps....., just perhaps, an understanding, loving boyfriend, Kevin.

Perhaps......, just perhaps, Kevin is not the monstrous ogre we would like to believe. Perhaps......., just perhaps, he is merely an all American boy growing up in small town, USA who loved baseball, video games and most of all, Nona. Perhaps........, just perhaps, he did not commit this heinous crime.........

I am so reluctant to believe anyone who knew Nona, who love her for so very long could end such a wonderful life. I want,…no, I need to believe some monstrous, evil, anonymous predator took from our midst a gift, a gift from God Almighty Himself, a gift to our community, a gift named Nona. Maybe this is not to be and the trial will determine otherwise. But until then I can only hear, echoing through my mind, these resounding last words...."I love you, Kevin." Nona Dirksmeyer, December 15, 2005. What better character witness could Kevin have?

Perhaps.

Was this a text message? Voice mail? Hadn't read this before, was it in an article somewhere?

[lorettalockhorn]

lorettafoghorn, i think sololobo was just saying "what if",
not that he had read or heard it anywhere, just surmising.
Just telling what he wanted to believe..... I read it that
he doesn't want to believe someone Nona knew in loved
did that to her. He'd rather believe it was a freak act of
a stranger.

K, not sure why you were compelled to answer for someone else (that sure does happen a lot around here), but I appreciate your interpretation. And I was very puzzled by his footnote about sanity and medication.

None of us wants to believe that Nona was brutally murdered, in cold blood by someone trusted, but I haven't seen any evidence to point toward a stranger.

If guess I find it obscene somehow to attribute these words to Nona as being "communicated" to her accused murderer.

You're not familiar with The Lockhorns? Got your wires crossed with Foghorn Leghorn? LMAO

[sololobo]

Perhaps.

Was this a text message? Voice mail? Hadn't read this before, was it in an article somewhere?

"At 9:00 a.m., investigators say, Nona sent a text message to her boyfriend, telling him she loved him."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/20/pzn.01.html

[lorettalockhorn]

"At 9:00 a.m., investigators say, Nona sent a text message to her boyfriend, telling him she loved him."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/20/pzn.01.html

:seeya: Solo, thanks so much for the sane explanation and the link; I'd read it before but didn't remember the quote about the 9am text message.
So sad.

[FDInLaw]

I hear there is a new Courier article this morning. . . can any of you locals give us an idea of what it says?

[JR2007]

I hear there is a new Courier article this morning. . . can any of you locals give us an idea of what it says?

Sorry my paper was delivered after I left home this morning.

[christina]

On my way out the door to the hearing- The article this morning says that Gibbons admits there is no FBI profile report. Only that "the FBI has been involved". But the prosecution did, this week, turn over a written report and 4 cds of the results of examining the computers of Dirksmeyer, Jones and or Martin- all done by the FBI.
The rest is just repeat of what seems to already be known. Gotta go....

[FDInLaw]

On my way out the door to the hearing- The article this morning says that Gibbons admits there is no FBI profile report. Only that "the FBI has been involved". But the prosecution did, this week, turn over a written report and 4 cds of the results of examining the computers of Dirksmeyer, Jones and or Martin- all done by the FBI.
The rest is just repeat of what seems to already be known. Gotta go....
Thanks for the info! Check in with us when you get back! :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

On my way out the door to the hearing- The article this morning says that Gibbons admits there is no FBI profile report. Only that "the FBI has been involved". But the prosecution did, this week, turn over a written report and 4 cds of the results of examining the computers of Dirksmeyer, Jones and or Martin- all done by the FBI.
The rest is just repeat of what seems to already be known. Gotta go....

From The Courier:
Last Wednesday, in response to a defense request made at the last hearing, Gibbons turned over an FBI report and four CDs that contain the results of the agency's examination of computers belonging to Dirksmeyer, Jones and/or Jeremy Martin......

At the last hearing, Johnson also asked Gibbons about an "FBI profile report." "There's no report - there's no written profile* , no," Gibbons said.

*I added the bolding just to clarify, a profile is what is not written, not that there isn't an FBI report. I have no clue if the FBI agent who gave the profile is a witness.

[lorettalockhorn]

Another thing in The Courier that I'm also curious about (besides the assertion by the defense that it was ever stated that a written FBI profile exists), is that the prosecution intends to call as a witness "a 13-year-old girl who participated in the Big Brother/Big Sister program with Dirksmeyer."

From The Courier: "Nona was to have dinner with [the girl] on the evening of the 15th of December [the day Dirksmeyer was killed], and [the girl] called Nona's house several times on the afternoon of the 15th," Gibbons wrote in his letter to the defense. "...She started calling at approximately 2:45 p.m. and the last call was made at approximately 6:40 p.m. None of the calls were answered," Gibbons wrote.

We wouldn't expect Nona or her killer (if he was hanging around) to answer the phone after time of death. Is it significant that the Joneses nor Ryan Whiteside didn't answer the phone? (I'm assuming that by "called Nona's house", Gibbons is talking about the landline.) It must be important for some reason to warrant the testimony of the Little. (Bless her heart.)

[lorettalockhorn]

If the phone call to 911 was made at 6:30 and lasted 10-15 minutes with both of the Joneses on the line, and they were using the landline, the line would have been busy. Even with call waiting, it would be unusual for them to break the call with 911 to answer an incoming call, wouldn't it? Was is reported somewhere that there were two calls to 911? One or more from a cell phone maybe?

Still, it seems odd that the prosecutor would expect the phone to have been answered during the time of discovery @ 6:30 and when the Little stopped calling at 6:40. Wonder if there is evidence on the phone itself?

[JR2007]

The blood evidence is going to be allowed in the trial. This I just heard.

[lorettalockhorn]

Ms. leghorn, perhaps you are over thinking this a bit. Maybe the PA is just trying to show there was no further contact with anyone after Nona's last known contact with her professor.

And, no the phone would not necessarily have rang busy for the girl if Nona had call waiting.

I don't recall reading anywhere that the landline phone was taken for evidence, but perhaps. But, then what would that have to do with the girl's testimony.


Are you typing to me and just cannot spell?

Yes, we know (so far) that Nona had no known contact after she spoke with the professor. Yes, I know that the phone would not necessarily ring busy if call waiting was in place, that's why I mentioned it. The article states that Nona's house was called, so for now I will infer that the landline records have been studied.

Do you have any thoughts as to why the Little will be testifying?

[lorettalockhorn]

The blood evidence is going to be allowed in the trial. This I just heard.


Thanks JR. :seeya:

[hawgustusgloop]

Are you typing to me and just cannot spell?

Yes, we know (so far) that Nona had no known contact after she spoke with the professor. Yes, I know that the phone would not necessarily ring busy if call waiting was in place, that's why I mentioned it. The article states that Nona's house was called, so for now I will infer that the landline records have been studied.

Do you have any thoughts as to why the Little will be testifying?

Maybe the police asked K.Jo if he tried to call her landline phone since he was so worried? Perhaps he told the police that he tried to call it several times but got a busy signal and thought it was off the hook and became really worried? The Little's testimony would say that her phone rang all afternoon and evening. It's a stretch, but maybe it's something along these lines.

[JR2007]

Maybe the police asked him if he tried to call her landline phone since he was so worried? Perhaps he told the police that he tried to call it several times but got a busy signal and thought it was off the hook and became really worried? The Little's testimony would say that her phone rang all afternoon and evening. It's a stretch, but maybe it's something along these lines.

Has anyone ever established the fact that she had a land line. Most young people today only use a CELL phone and very seldom use the land lines. If money is no object then she may have had a land line. AMO

[lorettalockhorn]

Maybe the police asked him if he tried to call her landline phone since he was so worried? Perhaps he told the police that he tried to call it several times but got a busy signal and thought it was off the hook and became really worried? The Little's testimony would say that her phone rang all afternoon and evening. It's a stretch, but maybe it's something along these lines.

That sounds very logical to me. Even though the PCS doesn't specifically mention the landline, I cannot imagine that those record weren't studied.

I guess that I was also curious as to why the child's testimony would be necessary rather than simply relying on the phone records.

[lorettalockhorn]

Has anyone ever established the fact that she had a land line. Most young people today only use a CELL phone and very seldom use the land lines. If money is no object then she may have had a land line. AMO

I found a listing for N Dirksmeyer, Russellville in my "Use until May 2006" directory.

[FDInLaw]

The blood evidence is going to be allowed in the trial. This I just heard.

This is good news for the PA! :beer:

[JR2007]

I found a listing for N Dirksmeyer, Russellville in my "Use until May 2006" directory.

OK, Did it show an address also. Remember she had only lived in the apartment for about 6 months, So it could have been an old phone since the directories don't update untill the end of the year.
Just a thought. Thanks.

[lorettalockhorn]

OK, Did it show an address also. Remember she had only lived in the apartment for about 6 months, So it could have been an old phone since the directories don't update untill the end of the year.
Just a thought. Thanks.

No. Simply: N Dirksmeyer, Russellville It was between May '05 and May '06.

Haven't looked in any other directories, but I guarandarntee you that I've got some around here!

[JR2007]

Something that struck me this morning is that the Defense has an expert witness that will testify at the trial about the fact that it takes only 30 to 45 mins for blood to dry, under the same conditions as Nonas apartment.
So how was kj able to run his hands through the blood on discovery, 6 hrs. later, and it not be dry. This is a rhetorical question.

[JR2007]

Here is the lates link to the Courier Democrat story printed in todays paper.

http://www.couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15222

[JR2007]

I think the idea behind that is that it might be the blood from touching the body, then supposedly he touched the lamp. The large pool of blood around the body obviously would not have been dry. I am ASSuming it was a large pool. It would have been too much too dry. I would imagine the defense's testing was done on a small amount that ended up on the light bulb. Just my guess.

Yes I understand all of that, that is why I stated that this is a rhetorical question. Although the terms Large pool and small amount are in themselves meaningless terms, that are relative.

[lorettalockhorn]

Yes I understand all of that, that is why I stated that this is a rhetorical question. Although the terms Large pool and small amount are in themselves meaningless terms, that are relative.

True. I've always pictured Nona's apartment as being carpeted. If so, I would have thought that much of the blood would have been absorbed.

[hawgustusgloop]

Yes I understand all of that, that is why I stated that this is a rhetorical question. Although the terms Large pool and small amount are in themselves meaningless terms, that are relative.

I suspect that suga may not be allowed to speak about this case in anything other than meaningless terms, but that is just a guess.

[optimumprimal78]

True. I've always pictured Nona's apartment as being carpeted. If so, I would have thought that much of the blood would have been absorbed.

That would depend on where the blood was located. If it was closer to the body/wound, then there could be a lot more blood in a small area. This MIGHT cause tackiness of blood.

[JR2007]

You guys crack me UP!!!

But, seriously meaningless terms that are relative? Are they meaningless, or are they relative? Just wondering.
A meaningless term can't be relative by definition.

[lorettalockhorn]

That would depend on where the blood was located. If it was closer to the body/wound, then there could be a lot more blood in a small area. This MIGHT cause tackiness of blood.


Agree. Nona had a large head wound (which would typically bleed profusely because of the large capillary bed). But IIRC, she died rather quickly according to the ME, so the blood would have seeped onto the floor or floor covering. I would think that that pool would definitely remain tacky much longer than the blood on a surface such as the light/lamp bulb.

[JR2007]

That would depend on where the blood was located. If it was closer to the body/wound, then there could be a lot more blood in a small area. This MIGHT cause tackiness of blood.

Chief Bacon stated this morning that the Blood on the lamp appeared the same on the 19/20 th of Dec, when he began to process it, as it did when he first saw it on the 15th the day of the Murder.

[JR2007]

JR, did you attend the hearing today? Is it over?
Yes and Yes

[optimumprimal78]

Keep in mind that the apartment that she lived in was an older apartment and the carpet/padding probably wasn't the thickest.

[JR2007]

Dang, where's Christina then?

How long did it last? Tell us about it. Pleazzzz.:D

It only lasted about 2 Hours. Not much happened except for the motion to suppress the blood evidence. The defense 1st call Chief Bacon to explain his view of what he meant by tacky. The defense bought in their expert, John Kilborn, gave his credentials, and told how he tested the drying time of blood, etc. Then the judge ruled not to suppress the evidence.

[FDInLaw]

http://www.couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15222

Old news now.

[lorettalockhorn]

It only lasted about 2 Hours. Not much happened except for the motion to suppress the blood evidence. The defense 1st call Chief Bacon to explain his view of what he meant by tacky. The defense bought in their expert, John Kilborn, gave his credentials, and told how he tested the drying time of blood, etc. Then the judge ruled not to suppress the evidence.


Good deal, thanks for posting! Bacon's statement about the appearance of the blood (in your other post) is interesting.

[JR2007]

I felt that during the credential stage of the two main persons giving testimony, Bacon and Kilborn, that Bacon out credentialed Kilborn in every way except blood evidence. Which the PA got Kilborn to admit, grudgingly that he had no medical training.

[hawgustusgloop]

Chief Bacon stated this morning that the Blood on the lamp appeared the same on the 19/20 th of Dec, when he began to process it, as it did when he first saw it on the 15th the day of the Murder.

Very interesting. I am glad the judge decided to leave all the blood evidence up to the jury to weigh for themselves.

[lorettalockhorn]

Very interesting. I am glad the judge decided to leave all the blood evidence up to the jury to weigh for themselves.

Amen. Kevin can always take the stand to explain his print or refute his statement that he didn't touch the bulb.

[optimumprimal78]

I see what you mean about the carpeting and padding. I'm unfamilar with those apartments, so thanks!

I've never been in those apartments but since I am from the area I have seen them (hope that's clear) so I know they aren't brand new. The few apartments that I have lived in have always had some sort of thin carpet and thin padding. But this is just another viewpoint.

[optimumprimal78]

haha nice try. I know for a fact I never told you to leave!!!! Left negative feedback? Perhaps, but there was nothing about leaving! I lnow for a fact because the words I left for optimural were a direct quote to me, copy and pasted over, so I am absoultely certain you were never told or asked to leave by me, someone else maybe.

My statement was if you were not going to bring anything to the discussion you should either do so OR leave. It was giving you an option in the hopes that you would actually contribute and not be negative or argumentative. Unfortunately, it seems that you can't. I hope you decide to bring some insight to this case eventually though. Time will tell.

[lorettalockhorn]

I've never been in those apartments but since I am from the area I have seen them (hope that's clear) so I know they aren't brand new. The few apartments that I have lived in have always had some sort of thin carpet and thin padding. But this is just another viewpoint.

Oh, I see what you mean. I've driven by them hundreds of times but had never thought about how old they might be. You're probably absolutely right about the contractor's grade floor coverings.

[FDInLaw]

I felt that during the credential stage of the two main persons giving testimony, Bacon and Kilborn, that Bacon out credentialed Kilborn in every way except blood evidence. Which the PA got Kilborn to admit, grudgingly that he had no medical training. WOW! That can't be good for the defense.

Sure glad you were able to be there, JR. Where is Christina?

[hawgustusgloop]

WOW! That can't be good for the defense.

Sure glad you were able to be there, JR. Where is Christina?

JR's account of the hearing sure makes it sound like it was a good day for the prosecution. Now, I am anxious to hear Christina's perspective on how it went, you know, for a little fair and balanced reporting! :patriot:

[FDInLaw]

You gots to be quicker. You have been beaten.:biggrin:

Contrary to urban legion, I'm not on here all the time. ;)

[christina]

Long day, lots of business and family stuff to take care of.
I have so many thoughts;
First, which one in the court room was JR2007?

On a more serious note, I looked at the two mothers, Jones and Dipert sitting on opposite sides of the courtroom. They look similar, close in age, body size, even hairstyle(although one is light haired and one dark haired) Both have strained, lost looks on their faces. Dipert sits beside who I assume is a member of the prosecutor's office. Jones is next to her husband. To think that 3 short years ago they thought they might be in laws, now they sit as opponents.
The pain in both their faces was tough to see.

[christina]

If today's hearing is a glimpse of what the trial will be- it is going to be one to watch. Both sides brought out their best arguers and arguments on this specific issue. But you could tell both were holding their punches, not wanting any more information to be made public (or given to the opponent)than was absolutely neccessary. It was better than any TV.
After hearing the arguments, I could see the judge ruling either way. They kept referring to Rule 403 and whether the item had probative or prejudicial value. I need to research that rule-do any of you have it/know it?
Reader's Digest version of the argument-The defense said it would be prejudicial because the prosecution has no proff of when the print was placed in the blood. The prosectution says it is probative because Jones denies ever touching the lamp. So as with the cell phone- the judge said they can argue their sides inf ront of the jury.

[hawgustusgloop]

If today's hearing is a glimpse of what the trial will be- it is going to be one to watch. Both sides brought out their best arguers and arguments on this specific issue. But you could tell both were holding their punches, not wanting any more information to be made public (or given to the opponent)than was absolutely neccessary. It was better than any TV.
After hearing the arguments, I could see the judge ruling either way. They kept referring to Rule 403 and whether the item had probative or prejudicial value. I need to research that rule-do any of you have it/know it?
Reader's Digest version of the argument-The defense said it would be prejudicial because the prosecution has no proff of when the print was placed in the blood. The prosectution says it is probative because Jones denies ever touching the lamp. So as with the cell phone- the judge said they can argue their sides inf ront of the jury.

Thank you for going and giving us your account. Were many people in attendance? Were there a lot of media types there?

[christina]

Thank you for going and giving us your account. Were many people in attendance? Were there a lot of media types there?

Its hard to tell all the media types- there were 3 people at the "media table", I recognized 2 of them, Ms. Ginoccio(sp?) and the reporter for the Dover Times. There was a Channel 7 van in the parking lot when I got there.

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks for posting Christine.

JR or Christine, was there any mention of the motion regarding KJ's past crimes? (Or however it was worded previously?) Or maybe I'm disremembering?

This is as good a definition that I found anywhere, of course there are a bazillion citations of specific cases all over the internet (PgDnX6, there is also a notes link:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rules.htm

[christina]

Thanks for posting Christine.

JR or Christine, was there any mention of the motion regarding KJ's past crimes? (Or however it was worded previously?) Or maybe I'm disremembering?

This is as good a definition that I found anywhere, of course there are a bazillion citations of specific cases all over the internet (PgDnX6, there is also a notes link:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rules.htm

I heard nothing at the hearing about Jones past. I haven't heard about that before on this blog either.

[lorettalockhorn]

This excerpt from today's Russellville Courier article linked above really gave me pause:

In a document filed June 13, defense attorneys requested “all the evidence prosecution [sic] anticipated will be used against the Defendant pertaining to character and to that of other crimes [or] wrongful conduct ... so that the Court may determine the admissibility of such proffered evidence prior to trial.”

What might they have on K.Jo? Any ideas? I don't know the guy at all, but I always thought that until the murder charge he was considered pretty much a model citizen.

BUMP for Christine. I'll look for a link to the Courier article.

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks for your report.

About halfway down this page is what I wondered about:

http://couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15133&Search=dirksmeyer

[JR2007]

Its hard to tell all the media types- there were 3 people at the "media table", I recognized 2 of them, Ms. Ginoccio(sp?) and the reporter for the Dover Times. There was a Channel 7 van in the parking lot when I got there.
Which one was Janie? I don't know if you were there when the first thing that Bristow bought up was about the media not being able to photograph while anyone was in the court room, now or during the trial. A couple of people left at this point, because their job was over, I guess. One young reporter looked at me, shuck his head as he picked up his large bag and left for good. Don 't know who he reported for, but he raised his hand when Patterson made the statement about who all was with the media. The blond on the right side about mid ways up was with the TV station KATV 7.
Christina's reporting is much like a reporters, mine on the other hand, is kinda hob nob.
O yes, I was the good looking one there, Christina.:D

[christina]

Which one was Janie? I don't know if you were there when the first thing that Bristow bought up was about the media not being able to photograph while anyone was in the court room, now or during the trial. A couple of people left at this point, because their job was over, I guess. One young reporter looked at me, shuck his head as he picked up his large bag and left for good. Don 't know who he reported for, but he raised his hand when Patterson made the statement about who all was with the media. The blond on the right side about mid ways up was with the TV station KATV 7.
Christina's reporting is much like a reporters, mine on the other hand, is kinda hob nob.
O yes, I was the good looking one there, Christina.:D

Well that information narrows it down JR!!!

Watched 7 News tonight and now know which was the blond reporter.
Ms Ginoccio(SP?) was the one up at the media table, perpendicular to the prosecution table, with dark brown curly hair.

[JR2007]

Thank you for going and giving us your account. Were many people in attendance? Were there a lot of media types there?

I believe there were only 22 people in the gallery including the family members, that sat on the front rows on both sides, and also Chief Bacon and Kilborn.

[christina]

Thanks for your report.

About halfway down this page is what I wondered about:

http://couriernews.com/archived_story.php?ID=15133&Search=dirksmeyer

What I gathered from the first and now second hearing, asking for any more evidence/discovery is "normal". Getting it on the record is the chance they have to point the finger later maybe-"I asked for that on such and such a date and you did not turn it over so it can't be admitted now".
So if there is actual evidence going to be presented about Jones past, the prosecution is supposed to turn it over in advance. Gibbons said there was not.

[christina]

I believe there were only 22 people in the gallery including the family members, that sat on the front rows on both sides, and also Chief Bacon and Kilborn.

I did not count but that seems about right.

[christina]

I felt that during the credential stage of the two main persons giving testimony, Bacon and Kilborn, that Bacon out credentialed Kilborn in every way except blood evidence. Which the PA got Kilborn to admit, grudgingly that he had no medical training.

I'm not sure I totally agree with you here. They had two different types of training, not one better and one worse. The deputy prosecutor brought that out in the cross examination when he asked the defense expert something to the effect "wouldn't you agree that different disciplines have different vernacular".
Bacon's training seemed more in investigation, Kilbourns more scientific in nature.

[christina]

From The Courier:
Last Wednesday, in response to a defense request made at the last hearing, Gibbons turned over an FBI report and four CDs that contain the results of the agency's examination of computers belonging to Dirksmeyer, Jones and/or Jeremy Martin......

At the last hearing, Johnson also asked Gibbons about an "FBI profile report." "There's no report - there's no written profile* , no," Gibbons said.

*I added the bolding just to clarify, a profile is what is not written, not that there isn't an FBI report. I have no clue if the FBI agent who gave the profile is a witness.

I believe an FBI profile is mentioned in the probable cause statement. I know it was mentioned in articles prior to the gag order. If something like that is stated in a pcs then the prosecution should be able to give something to the defense I would think.

[jonikay]

OK, I found this:
"In addition, on March 22,2006, Affiant consulted with members of the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit and discussed the evidence collected in this case to include video taped statements of Kevin Jones, crime scene photos and autopsy findings. It was also the opinion of the members of the FBI Behavioral Science team that the actions of Jones at the crime scene were a deliberate attempt to destroy the crime scene and to provide an explanation for the presence of any incriminating trace evidence."

and this, in the probable cause statement:
"Based on his training and experience and consultation with the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit, it is Affiant’s belief that the condom wrapper was placed on the counter to make it appear as if rape was the motive for the attack."

There is no mention of a profile here, just discussions, consultations, and opinions given to the RPD by the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit. I guess we were all reading too much into that.

[christina]

Other things asked for today by the defense from the prosecution;
*any new dna tests- Gibbons said they sent the vertical blinds out for further testing
*any new fingerprint testing-Gibbons said he sent the base of the lamp and rod of the lamp for new print analysis but none were suitable
*any new witnesses- Gibbons said yes, and named a woman but I'm not sure of the name, I think it was Sara Bailey who the defense said lives out of state now
*any new scientific testing- Gibbons said no
*the defense asked that Gibbons instruct witnesses to talk to the defense when called. It was brought out that the defense tried several times to get in touch with Chief Bacon but he did not return the calls. Bacon asserted the defense did not leave a number. (That seems unlikely to me though.) They also stated that of the 90 people on the jury list, they have only received 60 surveys.

Gibbons said he has arial photos of the Dover area and additional photos of the exterior of Ms Dirksmeyers apartment

Man, my memory is maxed now!!!!

[christina]

OK, I found this:
"In addition, on March 22,2006, Affiant consulted with members of the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit and discussed the evidence collected in this case to include video taped statements of Kevin Jones, crime scene photos and autopsy findings. It was also the opinion of the members of the FBI Behavioral Science team that the actions of Jones at the crime scene were a deliberate attempt to destroy the crime scene and to provide an explanation for the presence of any incriminating trace evidence."

and this, in the probable cause statement:
"Based on his training and experience and consultation with the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit, it is Affiant’s belief that the condom wrapper was placed on the counter to make it appear as if rape was the motive for the attack."

There is no mention of a profile here, just discussions, consultations, and opinions given to the RPD by the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit. I guess we were all reading too much into that.

It still seems that the prosecution should provide the defense with, at the very least, their notes from the conversation.
Another thing from today-the defense said they only received 3 cds, not the promised/stated 4 from the FBI report. Gibbons said that all the information was put on those 3.

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm not sure I totally agree with you here. They had two different types of training, not one better and one worse. The deputy prosecutor brought that out in the cross examination when he asked the defense expert something to the effect "wouldn't you agree that different disciplines have different vernacular".
Bacon's training seemed more in investigation, Kilbourns more scientific in nature.


My experience is that investigative training is scientific.

I still wonder if the FBI consultant is a witness; if he provided no written report (Jonikay quoted the PCS), there is no way that the State can turn it over to the defense. But yeah, you would expect Frost to rely on more than just his memory.

So that's interesting about the "past crimes"; I've never heard of any and you would think that they would be talked about all over the place by now. I suppose that means that if past crimes don't come up in the examination or cross examination process, they are out.

LOL JR, we could tell that you are good looking just from your posts!

Thanks guys.

[JR2007]

I'm not sure I totally agree with you here. They had two different types of training, not one better and one worse. The deputy prosecutor brought that out in the cross examination when he asked the defense expert something to the effect "wouldn't you agree that different disciplines have different vernacular".
Bacon's training seemed more in investigation, Kilbourns more scientific in nature.

Maybe the paper will have more on their credentials tomorrow. I couldn't take notes fast enough to get any of it down on paper. I felt that Bacons' training was more formal and Kilbourns was somewhat formal but a lot of OJT. Maybe it's my interpretation of it though. The deputy prosecutor, I thought did a good Job, more energy then Gibbons, who seems to have a more laid back demeanor. I see the advantages for both types though. I thought it interesting when they were arguing about the motion at the end, and the Bald defense lawyer got up to state his argument, in support of Bristow against Gibbons, and Gibbons objected, that only one defense attorney at a time should be allowed to argue any one point, Baldy smirked and said, "Oh your going to play that game", and judge Patterson ruled that yes, the Attorney that started with a witness now and at the trial would stay with that witness, not able to play a tag team game.

[JR2007]

Other things asked for today by the defense from the prosecution;
*any new dna tests- Gibbons said they sent the vertical blinds out for further testing
*any new fingerprint testing-Gibbons said he sent the base of the lamp and rod of the lamp for new print analysis but none were suitable
*any new witnesses- Gibbons said yes, and named a woman but I'm not sure of the name, I think it was Sara Bailey who the defense said lives out of state now
*any new scientific testing- Gibbons said no
*the defense asked that Gibbons instruct witnesses to talk to the defense when called. It was brought out that the defense tried several times to get in touch with Chief Bacon but he did not return the calls. Bacon asserted the defense did not leave a number. (That seems unlikely to me though.) They also stated that of the 90 people on the jury list, they have only received 60 surveys.

Gibbons said he has arial photos of the Dover area and additional photos of the exterior of Ms Dirksmeyers apartment

Man, my memory is maxed now!!!!

Know what you mean about memory, it's hard to take it all in and record much of it.

[hawgustusgloop]

An article from channel 11:

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=48214

[lorettalockhorn]

An article from channel 11:

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=48214

Thanks Hawg. :seeya:

[JR2007]

Yup, sounds as if it will be an interesting trial.

JR2007, do you plan to attend the trial?
I would like to attend, but I doubt if I will be able to.
Maybe one day if I can get away.

[christina]

Know what you mean about memory, it's hard to take it all in and record much of it.

Agreed, very tough to do both.

[christina]

Maybe the paper will have more on their credentials tomorrow. I couldn't take notes fast enough to get any of it down on paper. I felt that Bacons' training was more formal and Kilbourns was somewhat formal but a lot of OJT. Maybe it's my interpretation of it though. The deputy prosecutor, I thought did a good Job, more energy then Gibbons, who seems to have a more laid back demeanor. I see the advantages for both types though. I thought it interesting when they were arguing about the motion at the end, and the Bald defense lawyer got up to state his argument, in support of Bristow against Gibbons, and Gibbons objected, that only one defense attorney at a time should be allowed to argue any one point, Baldy smirked and said, "Oh your going to play that game", and judge Patterson ruled that yes, the Attorney that started with a witness now and at the trial would stay with that witness, not able to play a tag team game.

No doubt about it, we saw more of what each side is going to bring to the table, again though, I felt like they only wanted to show a little bit prior to the trial.
The bald defense lawyer is Robbins. The deputy prosecutor, Phillps, borderline badgered the defense expert in my opinion. I wondered how that will play to a jury. I imagine it is needed at times. He also got a little dramatic at the end. But no doubt he is definitely sharper than Gibbons. That could be just style and not intelligence.

[christina]

My experience is that investigative training is scientific.

I still wonder if the FBI consultant is a witness; if he provided no written report (Jonikay quoted the PCS), there is no way that the State can turn it over to the defense. But yeah, you would expect Frost to rely on more than just his memory.

So that's interesting about the "past crimes"; I've never heard of any and you would think that they would be talked about all over the place by now. I suppose that means that if past crimes don't come up in the examination or cross examination process, they are out.

LOL JR, we could tell that you are good looking just from your posts!

Thanks guys.

In the end the prosecution said they had no problem with the defense experts conclusions that blood on a bulb dries within 50 minutes. So his testimony was almost moot. The prosecutor made a good point when he asked the expert the question, "you got to do something that Bacon didn't get to do, right? You got to touch it".
Again though, this was all to a judge for decision on admissibility. How all of it will play to a jury in a small town is a whole other animal.

[JR2007]

No doubt about it, we saw more of what each side is going to bring to the table, again though, I felt like they only wanted to show a little bit prior to the trial.
The bald defense lawyer is Robbins. The deputy prosecutor, Phillps, borderline badgered the defense expert in my opinion. I wondered how that will play to a jury. I imagine it is needed at times. He also got a little dramatic at the end. But no doubt he is definitely sharper than Gibbons. That could be just style and not intelligence.
I noticed in the paper this morning that there was a picture of the defense team and the Prosecution team. They look like they were taken yesterday. Does this violate the no camera rule?
I believe it's style, Gibbons is smart, he needs to cut his hair though. He's had that style for umpteen years, he's to old for it.
I believe the assistant DA was trying to make him nervous and uncomfortable in order to shake him a little and I thought he did that. The Kilbourn started to stammer and give answers somewhat more nervously. AMO

[christina]

I noticed in the paper this morning that there was a picture of the defense team and the Prosecution team. They look like they were taken yesterday. Does this violate the no camera rule?
I believe it's style, Gibbons is smart, he needs to cut his hair though. He's had that style for umpteen years, he's to old for it.
I believe the assistant DA was trying to make him nervous and uncomfortable in order to shake him a little and I thought he did that. The Kilbourn started to stammer and give answers somewhat more nervously. AMO

The pictures were taken prior to the judge entering the room and sending the photgraphers out.
Good analysis-it is different styles. I did not interpret that the expert was stammering though. Phillips was shooting questions at him without giving time to repspond(style!). Some of the questions were definitely leading, like a set up for only one "right" answer. In the end, the expert made the points needed and Phillips made his points, so to me it was a draw. Again, how will that behavoir play to a jury?

[lorettalockhorn]

The pictures were taken prior to the judge entering the room and sending the photgraphers out.
Good analysis-it is different styles. I did not interpret that the expert was stammering though. Phillips was shooting questions at him without giving time to repspond(style!). Some of the questions were definitely leading, like a set up for only one "right" answer. In the end, the expert made the points needed and Phillips made his points, so to me it was a draw. Again, how will that behavoir play to a jury?


I have read that a successful cross examiner is supposed to ask leading questions only; the question declares the answer. Leading questions are only disallowed in direct examination.

JR, Gibbons does have a rather "retro" hairstyle doesn't he? It may be shaggy looking, but he's sharp.

[lorettalockhorn]

Maybe the paper will have more on their credentials tomorrow. I couldn't take notes fast enough to get any of it down on paper. I felt that Bacons' training was more formal and Kilbourns was somewhat formal but a lot of OJT. Maybe it's my interpretation of it though. The deputy prosecutor, I thought did a good Job, more energy then Gibbons, who seems to have a more laid back demeanor. I see the advantages for both types though. I thought it interesting when they were arguing about the motion at the end, and the Bald defense lawyer got up to state his argument, in support of Bristow against Gibbons, and Gibbons objected, that only one defense attorney at a time should be allowed to argue any one point, Baldy smirked and said, "Oh your going to play that game", and judge Patterson ruled that yes, the Attorney that started with a witness now and at the trial would stay with that witness, not able to play a tag team game.

According to the Gazette article, Bacon is a certified latent print examiner. Didn't know that.

http://www2.arkansasonline.com/news/2007/jun/30/judge-bloody-print-found-05-slaying-ok-us-20070630/

If the link doesn't work, it's at arkansasonline.com, the first article under the Arkansas section.

The Courier article for anyone who hasn't seen it:

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15230

[christina]

According to the Gazette article, Bacon is a certified latent print examiner. Didn't know that.

http://www2.arkansasonline.com/news/2007/jun/30/judge-bloody-print-found-05-slaying-ok-us-20070630/

If the link doesn't work, it's at arkansasonline.com, the first article under the Arkansas section.

The Courier article for anyone who hasn't seen it:

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15230

Thanks for the link. Correct, Bacon said he is one of several hundred.

[JR2007]

According to the Gazette article, Bacon is a certified latent print examiner. Didn't know that.

http://www2.arkansasonline.com/news/2007/jun/30/judge-bloody-print-found-05-slaying-ok-us-20070630/

If the link doesn't work, it's at arkansasonline.com, the first article under the Arkansas section.

The Courier article for anyone who hasn't seen it:

http://couriernews.com/story.php?ID=15230

I haven't been able to open the link to the Arkansas paper. Did it state that Bacon was one of only 700 in the Nation? That was interesting to know although I don't think he took any prints, I think he sent everything to the Crime lab to do.

[christina]

I haven't been able to open the link to the Arkansas paper. Did it state that Bacon was one of only 700 in the Nation? That was interesting to know although I don't think he took any prints, I think he sent everything to the Crime lab to do.

That was an interesting point. The police had an expert(Bacon) at the scene but he delegated someone else to collect all prints.