Is Jeffrey McDonald Guilty?

[Bunny2]

Am I going nuts here, or did the defense make another blunder? Unless my eyes are seeing double, this defense doc contains many duplicate pages for CID exhibits:

March 22, 2006: Attachment to defense memo: Miscellaneous re: Evidence
http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/downloads/mac_def_memo-evdnc_2006-03-22c.pdf

I guess the defense was just taking a cue from Mac and his few remaining supporters: if the judge doesn't get it the first time, just submit several copies of the same thing and try pounding it into his head by repetition.

[Deb B]

Originally posted by Bunny2
Am I going nuts here, or did the defense make another blunder? Unless my eyes are seeing double, this defense doc contains many duplicate pages for CID exhibits:

March 22, 2006: Attachment to defense memo: Miscellaneous re: Evidence
http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/downloads/mac_def_memo-evdnc_2006-03-22c.pdf

I guess the defense was just taking a cue from Mac and his few remaining supporters: if the judge doesn't get it the first time, just submit several copies of the same thing and try pounding it into his head by repetition.

It looks like pages 26-50 repeat pages 1-25. I notice that page 26-50 have handwritten notations - regarding the results?

[caphill]

Originally posted by Bunny2
As we know from the evidence (and lack of evidence of her presence), and from the recent DNA results, she did testify truthfully. No "intruders" were in the apartment at all, and MacDonald himself murdered his family.

MacDonald, Segal and Gunderson should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves for trying to coerce this innocent, drug-addled young woman to confess to crimes she didn't commit.But of course you can show no proof of that, because there is none. If you haven't read it already, I'd recommend taking a look at the government's March 30 response. It's a good read.

And isn't it funny that Mac tried to claim credit for finding her, when Stoeckley was actually located and arrested by FBI Special Agent Frank J. Mills, who was executing a Material Witness Warrant issued by the Court on the Government's motion. I guess Mac thought (and still does) that he can lie about anything and everything and suffer no consequences. You'd think he'd have learned differently by now, wouldn't you, but no, he just goes on lying from day to day, about whatever suits his fancy. But how telling it was that even when the defense had Stoeckley in its hot little hands, they didn't even call her during their case in chief. Dupree had to tell them to either use her or send her home, and even then the response to using her was that they didn't want to! Sure shows a lot of confidence in her, doesn't it...how funny.



That is factually incorrect. Whether you are deliberately misinforming your flock or you are are ignorant of the facts of the Stoeckley arrest warrant by Segal hor her to be brought to the trial as a material witness for his case in chief is the question only you can answer.

Stoeckley testified on August 17th and the transcripts are posted on the Chrstina's site. At the end of testimony, Segal also placed her under a subpoena becasue he didn't want her held in custody but wanted to be able to bring her back to the stand. He at that time didn't know Judge Depree was not going to allow the 5 witnesses to testify to what Stoeckley had told them in previous years as well as the day before testimony about her recollections of what she saw in the MacDonald house.

The testimony of Stoeckley on August 17th, the bench conferences when Segal wanted to declare her a hostile and surprise witness because of memory relapse after pre testimony conference with the defense team and the Blackburn conference, are clearly preserved as a court record.

This testimony, you have just claimed did not happen, is very strong support of the Britt affidavit that Stoeckley changed her testimony after talking to Blackburn from she had told him as well as numerous other people about her memories of who and what she saw the night of the murders.

This testimony also verifies that Stoeckley mentioned a broken spring on the horse . Murtagh statements to the District Court in his response comes again into question since he told the court Stoeckley said it was a horse on wheels when it was a spring horse.

You disclosed you personaly posted the rendition of a horse on wheels on a web site because Kassab said the horse had wheels and no springs. This horse shown on the web is very different from the horse picture that was taken through the window by a reporter.

The pics of the horse on wheels on the websites now appears to an alteration of fact to support Kassab's statements and is contrary to court report, court exhibits and court testimony.

The testimony of Stoeckley on Aug 17th as the defense's material witness in their case in chief and the info of the horse on springs i shows you are being used as vehicle of misinformation to support CID agent Kearns and the erroneous statements of Freddy Kassab.

Either Christina does not have actual transcripts or has changed the text of the testimony before she posted the Stoeckley testimony or you are posting false information. Whick one is it?

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by caphill
That is factually incorrect. Whether you are deliberately misinforming your flock or you are are ignorant of the facts of the Stoeckley arrest warrant by Segal hor her to be brought to the trial as a material witness for his case in chief is the question only you can answer.Sorry, Cappy, but you're wrong. According to the records, FBI Agent Mills found and arrested Stoeckley on a Material Witness Warrant issued by the Court on the Government's motion, not the defense's. There are at least five links on CM's site where references to Mills are found. Look them up for yourself since you haven't already done that.Either Christina does not have actual transcripts or has changed the text of the testimony before she posted the Stoeckley testimony or you are posting false information. Whick one is it?"Whick" one is it, Cappy? It's none of the above. I've seen the actual records; you haven't. I processed the pictures for CM's website; you didn't. No need for me to defend myself at all here, or to defend CM, since anyone can see by your many past posts that you are overly fond of posting outrightly false information such as Mac's getting a new trial, the info in Glisson's notes, etc. Not only that, but to date the defense has posted NOTHING that I can recall about any picture being false. Read the records.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by Deb B
It looks like pages 26-50 repeat pages 1-25. I notice that page 26-50 have handwritten notations - regarding the results?Deb, I just read your post and haven't checked those handwritten notes, but I know some of the stuff CM receives contains handwritten underlines, notes, etc. and most of the time there's no clue as to who did that. Regardless, IMO it's kind of odd that the defense wouldn't just leave out 1-25 and include only 26-50 if they wanted to show the handwritten stuff, since obviously with just 26-50 any judge could still see the original typewritten things as well as what's been handwritten. I need to take another look, but right now I can't help thinking the defense was just careless here and didn't realize they were including what amounts to duplicates of those records. JMPO.

BTW, did you get that private message I sent you last week over at C&J...?

[Bunny2]

In the DNA report is a reference to "37A," a pubic hair sample. I don't think anyone gave such samples except MacDonald, but I can't seem to verify that this is definitely from him. I've posted this at C&J, and Stinker helped out by identifying 149A as being from MacDonald, but if anyone knows who 37A belongs to, please let me know...?

p. 7
37A Slide, "Pubic Hair..."

p. 9
149A Container, "...K22...15 pubic..."

p. 10
185A Vial, "hair sample...pubic area of cpt MacDonald"

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by cami
it was prior to Mr. Kassab's receiving the transcripts of the Article 32 where he learned, for the first time, what had happened to Colette, Kim and Kris. He also read for the first time MacDonald's statement as to what happened in that house. MacDonald's testimony at the A32 was not consistant with the evidence found there. It was from MacDonald's own testimony that Mr. Kassab first started to believe that the CID might have a case against his murdering son-in-law. Until that time, Mr. Kassab was relying on his personal experience with MacDonald. He had no reason to doubt his word.

mac continues to open his mouth and insert his feet.Right, Cami! And somehow (I don't know why) this always reminds me of Mac's website claiming that the Kassabs turned against him when Mac decided to move to California. Wrong! According to Kassab: "MacDonald's fatal mistake was made when he told me in a phone conversation which I recorded, that he had caught and killed one of the alleged assailants. That was the beginning of the end for him."

It's also worthy to remember Mac's silly excuse for telling the Kassabs that he'd murdered one of the "intruders," that he did that supposedly to try to ease the Kassabs' grief. What a joke, considering he told the same story to Bob Stern three months before he told it to Freddy.

Mac's a liar, always has been and always will be, plain and simple. How satisfying to know that his own big mouth helped to put him where he is today, in a concrete cell with virtually no hope at all of ever getting out.

[Spamela]

Originally posted by byn63


oh spammy I just Hate It! when you are so subtle in your use of language. people won't know how you feel! lmao! :beer: :lol:

Mr. Lala Land brought up those burley MPs, and it has just been simmering in my little ol’ brain.....ever since. I wonder how he knew they were burley? Maybe Lala and myself will have to fight over who gets first dibs on the burley men? Although, I know Lala’s heart belongs to Mac. I am sure Mac would be jazzed to meet his one and only loyal fan.

I say Tutu. You say Tetbury. Oh, heck, who cares?

Ah, I forgot to add to the list of the guilty parties:
The Masons
Castro
The Black Panthers
The militant branch of the Salvation Army
Che Guevara
The Grey Panthers
The Veterans of Foreign Wars (nefarious ex-military types)
Ralph Nader (why not?)

Did I miss anyone?

[Spamela]

Originally posted by Bert Tansill

The case against Dr MacDonald was never evidentially sound. Barskin ought to do some investigating of the Stoeckley group before he comes on the internet and writes nonsense about the MacDonald case.

Right, Barskin! Mr. Lala has spoken. YOU have been found guilty of writing nonsense!!! If you would just stick to the Lala facts, it would be clear that all the physical evidence that lead to the conviction of Inmate, is just a fantasy.

Do you repent? FEEL the POWER of Lala Land stealing over your brain. Do you FEEL it? Can you see it? HAVE YOU FOUND THE LIGHT?

[caphill]

Originally posted by Bunny2
Sorry, Cappy, but you're wrong. According to the records, FBI Agent Mills found and arrested Stoeckley on a Material Witness Warrant issued by the Court on the Government's motion, not the defense's. There are at least five links on CM's site where references to Mills are found. Look them up for yourself since you haven't already done that."Whick" one is it, Cappy? It's none of the above. I've seen the actual records; you haven't. I processed the pictures for CM's website; you didn't. No need for me to defend myself at all here, or to defend CM, since anyone can see by your many past posts that you are overly fond of posting outrightly false information such as Mac's getting a new trial, the info in Glisson's notes, etc. Not only that, but to date the defense has posted NOTHING that I can recall about any picture being false. Read the records.



I noticed you did not address the fact that Stoeckley did testify on Aug 17, 1979 as a material witness for the defense in their case in chief. She was found living at a Quarterhouse in SC and was brought to court by US Marshalls, Britt being one of them.

The transcripts of Stoeckely testimony clearly shows she was a defense witness with Segal opening up her testimony on direct. Anyone who understands anything about court roomroom procedures and what direct examination and cross examination means knows that Stoeckley was a defense witness.

You made totally false statements in your post. I made a typo in whick rather than which. You calling attention to the typo is not a very good diversion away from the fact you made blatantly statements that were false about Stoeckley testifying.

I never mentioned FBI agent Miles at any time or what role he played in finding Stoeckley. That is your way of diverting away from the subject of Stoeckley testifying as the defense material witness.

Are the transcripts and the text the actual transcripts of the trial? If so, then how do you explain your statements that are in direct contradiction of the transcripts.

To my knowledge the defense team of MacDonald's is not wasting any time in whatsoever posting or responding to you or anyone else on this message board or any other of the forums where you post about the validity of any your statements or the pics that you post.

I have no verification that the MacDonald camp did force Christina to remove some pics and/or other things from her site. Her posting of emails that were sent to her has an email posted that says she was forced to remove items from her site. If this is true or not , I do not know. Christina, to my knowledge, did not deny it.

Back to the original question. Are the transcripts posted on Christina's site of Stoeckley testimony and the bench conferences correct? or are you making false statements that the defense never had Stoeckley brought to court to testify as their material witness in their case in chief?

[lucielle]

It is true that Helena was called as a defense witness, although she would be classified as a non-compliant witness. She didn't exactly want to be there.

Here testimony nontheless helped the prosecution, not the defense. Calling her was kind of a moot point, imo. WHat could she have offered? The jury saw that she was a strung out kid who didn't know anything at all about the case.

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by Spamela


Mr. Lala Land brought up those burley MPs, and it has just been simmering in my little ol’ brain.....ever since. I wonder how he knew they were burley? Maybe Lala and myself will have to fight over who gets first dibs on the burley men? Although, I know Lala’s heart belongs to Mac. I am sure Mac would be jazzed to meet his one and only loyal fan.

I say Tutu. You say Tetbury. Oh, heck, who cares?

Ah, I forgot to add to the list of the guilty parties:
The Masons
Castro
The Black Panthers
The militant branch of the Salvation Army
Che Guevara
The Grey Panthers
The Veterans of Foreign Wars (nefarious ex-military types)
Ralph Nader (why not?)

Did I miss anyone?
mick jagger silly! and pretty much anyone irish, i'm guessing.

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by barskin&co.


Whoo hoo! That was quite a public service for you to post. "Specially formulated to absorb excess sweat and reduce frictional skin irritation." Perfect for the person who spends untold hours sitting down posting long-winded lunatic theories with absolutley no basis in fact.
omg, lmao! i hadn't thought of it that way, but what a perfect use! :)

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by Bunny2

lmbo@jazzed!

hey bunny, check out this grooooooovy site
I've been sitting here for 10 minutes just trying to compose myself after seeing this site. How hilarious. Obviously we don't have to worry about the death of entrepreneurial ingenuity anytime soon.

:lol:
teehee, glad you likey! :)

[Spamela]

Originally posted by Bert Tansill
I think Fred Kassab was a very dangerous man.

***Yes, he used the judicial system to convict the man who murdered his family

I don't know why he suddenly switched sides and campaigned to have Dr MacDonald prosecuted.

***Inmate being guilty of murder, might be ONE reason.

There was nothing in the Article 32 transcript that indicated MacDonald guilt for the MacDonald murders. Dr MacDonald was never arrested until Murtagh and Dupree got their claws into him, ten years after the events took place.

***Too bad they did not get their claws, teeth, and nails into him earlier. He had freedom he did not deserve.

It could just be Kassab's semi-Asiatic background and a lack of character and general reliability.

***"Semi-Asiatic" background. Yes, that WOULD explain everything, to a bigot, now wouldn't it?

Dr MacDonald called him "a funny sort of a friend." Kassab was not the sort of person you would want on your left flank in the heat of a battle.

***Much better to have old inmate as a friend. A man who would stab his baby daughter to death to save his sorry hide.

It sounds as though there was an almighty MacDonald and Kassab family row over Dr MacDonald's decision to take up an appointment at a hospital in California in the early 1970's. Kearns and Ivory were supposed to have visited the Kassabs in New York with lurid stories of Dr MacDonald kissing women.

****Inmate did a little more than kiss the girls and make them cry. He was shagging them rotten, baby!

I don't know the full facts about Dr MacDonald telling Kassab that he had shot one of the murderers, or indeed if it happened at all.

***Inmate has ADMITTED he said it Lala, how about them apples?

In a way I don't really want to know. Dr McDonald has said
publicly that he now thinks it was a mistake to have told Kassab about that. I think at the time Dr MacDonald didn't realize that it would disturb Kassab's mind. I also think in a court case somewhere Kassab admitted that he went with Dr MacDonald at the beginning, around the local bars, looking for the murderers.

Fred Kassab was never a professional criminal investigator.

***Just like you, Lala

He was a know nothing.
***He was dedicated to obtaining justice. I hope he finds great happiness in his next life. He is a hero.

Bernie Segal should hve been much more severe on Kassab before he was able to do any real damage to Dr MacDonald. Kassab's child molestation theory was a lunatic theory if ever I heard one. It was a theory without facts.

***Yeah, you are right, a man who will murder his family, would NEVER molest his child.

It seems to me there was faulty police organization in the MacDonald case. There seem to be thousands of police departments in America who never communicate with each other, or the Army CID. The FBI was a complete shambles in the MacDonald case.
***Guess you there, bud? Every step of the way? Know every document? Right.........

The FBI never thoroughly investigated the Stoeckley group.
***Says, who?

It's interesting to me that Kassab is on record as saying that Colonel Kane used to phone him about the MacDonald case. I'm not at all sure that Colonel Kane was a true friend of Dr MacDonald. I'm beginning to wonder if Colonel Kane was the one who managed to "turn" the Kassabs against Dr MacDonald.
****Freddy recongized Inmate for what he was--a liar and murderer. He did not need anyone to turn him against Inmate.

[caphill]

Originally posted by lucielle
It is true that Helena was called as a defense witness, although she would be classified as a non-compliant witness. She didn't exactly want to be there.

Here testimony nontheless helped the prosecution, not the defense. Calling her was kind of a moot point, imo. WHat could she have offered? The jury saw that she was a strung out kid who didn't know anything at all about the case.


It was established on the stand that she was sober and not taking drugs when she testified.

That was what the fuss was all about. Segal stopped her testimony a number of times and bench conference with Dupree to declare her a hostile witness or a "surprise" witness because she had changed from testimony completely from from she had said the day before in testimony preparation.

That is the issue and the crux of the Britt affidavit. He has made a sworn statement and taken a poly that he witnessed Blackburn telling Stoeckley if she testified she had any recall of being at that murder scene he would indict her for murder.

That is the explanation of her sudden memory lapse in the few hours between her testimony preparation with the defense and her little chat with Blackburn.

What did her admittedly being strung out on drugs 9 years prior have to do what memories she had from that period suddenly relapsing between Aug 16th and Aug 17th when she was sober.

How does Murtagh explain that when she told him she had memories of bit and pieces of that evening and she believed she had witnessed horrible things on the night of the murder. He had on his witness list and after he interviewed her he decided he was not going to call her as witness. That is why the defense got a warrant and had her brought to the trial as their witness.

Since she had already been interviewed by Murtagh and he knew what her testimony was going to be, why did he and Blackburn feel the need to interview her again after she had her testimony preparation with the defense.

Blackburn objected everytime Segal tried to bring out that she
had a different testimony that what she had said the previous day. It took 26 years to hear what happened in the little chat with Blackburn. There is also an affidavit that was taken the next day of Helena saying she was afraid of those "damn prosecutors" sitting there as her reason for her memory lapse.

Britt's affidavit taken with the transcripts of her testimony and the bench conferences where Segal is going nuts because of the change in her testimony is a very difficult hurdle for the Government to overcome.

To make an argument that anyone that committed or witnessed a crime under the influence of alcohol or drugs should have their testimony dismissed would be a great advantage to many or most of criminals as a defense. That would be absurb. Never in the history of trial courts have I have known using drugs or alcohol gets the evidence dismissed or not heard.

[Spamela]

Helena was deemed unreliable due to the details of her ever changing story. A witness who talks of a candle that drips blood is not going to impress the jury. She should have testified that she saw Inmate kill his own family--that was one of her many confessions. She was not in that apartment. Four people were in that apartment and when Inmate was done, only one was left.

[Hotwater]

Please just snip the relevant part of a quote and address your response to the relevant poster. This will make moderating threads much easier.

Long posts and long replies make moderating harder and chew up the band width.


Thanks,

--Hh20

[Bunny2]

I noticed there are still falsehoods and misrepresentations being propagated regarding Stoeckley's testimony. The actual case records at TJMIS show that Stoeckley, a defense witness, was found and arrested by FBI agent Mills, on a warrant that seems to have been based on the government's, not the defense's motion, and that Mac's claims that the defense found and arrested her appear to be blatantly false. I also notice that no explanation has been forthcoming for posting the false information that Mac had been granted a new trial. It also seems that the same poster who posted about a "new trial" and who also ranted and raved a few days ago that CM had deliberately removed a "clear picture" of the hobby horse from her site now backtracks, saying he has no verification of that (as I knew all along). Oh, well, what else can you expect...even a quick perusal of Mac's website shows that it's filled to the brim with deliberate lies and misrepresentations, and it looks like Mac's handful of "supporters" (which seem to be mostly the same person) are just following suit as they've always done.

I've also heard rumors that Mac was caught shooting heroin while in prison, and confessed to trying to solicit sex from some of those burly guards. MacDonald, to my knowledge, has not denied this.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by lucielle
Calling [Stoeckley] was kind of a moot point, imo. WHat could she have offered? The jury saw that she was a strung out kid who didn't know anything at all about the case.Hi, Lucielle! I agree with you about Stoeckley, and the jurors did too. In fact, one of them said it pretty well: "A confession by a pathetic acid head such as Helena Stoeckley does not deter for an instant from the mountains of evidence against MacDonald presented at the trial."

And by virtue of Mac's own big mouth over the years, and the recent DNA results which were so devastating to the defense, the evidence that no "intruders" were in the apartment and that Mac himself murdered his family has only grown stronger.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by Spamela - snipped
****Freddy recongized Inmate for what he was--a liar and murderer. He did not need anyone to turn him against Inmate. Great post, Spammy! You hit the nail on the head every time.

MacDonald was and is a very dangerous man. Not only did he brutally murder his wife, Colette, and his two small children, but he couldn't care less that he did it. He has sought no help for his marcissistic and psychopathic personality defects, and if he were ever released, he might very well murder again.

Thank goodness for Kassab, who knew that Mac was the murderer and whose intense desire to see justice done never wavered after he learned the Truth, and kudos to Brian Murtagh, whose dedication to this case still continues.

[byn63]

Originally posted by Bunny2
Great post, Spammy! You hit the nail on the head every time.

ITA with bunny!

MacDonald was and is a very dangerous man. Not only did he brutally murder his wife, Colette, and his two small children, but he couldn't care less that he did it. He has sought no help for his marcissistic and psychopathic personality defects, and if he were ever released, he might very well murder again.

bunny - I think you are correct in this assumption. I especially believe that Inmate has 36+ years of rage pent up inside himself and like a serial killer, he will not be able to stop himself from killing again, if given half a chance. Also, I believe that Mrs. Inmate would be in extreme danger if they lived together. Her "airy fairy" manner and slavish devotion to Inmate would have her tripping his triggers in no time, imo.

Thank goodness for Kassab, who knew that Mac was the murderer and whose intense desire to see justice done never wavered after he learned the Truth, and kudos to Brian Murtagh, whose dedication to this case still continues.

Once again I agree! Freddy took his education and training (as an Intelligence Officer in WWII) and his love for HIS daughter and granddaughters and persued justice with dedication and zeal. I truly believe he was an amazing man. May he forever rest in peace.
:rose:

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by byn63


Once again I agree! Freddy took his education and training (as an Intelligence Officer in WWII) and his love for HIS daughter and granddaughters and persued justice with dedication and zeal. I truly believe he was an amazing man. May he forever rest in peace.
:rose:

Freddy Kassab, a loving father and grandfather who never gave up the fight for justice :rose:

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by Spamela


Mr. Lala Land brought up those burley MPs, and it has just been simmering in my little ol’ brain.....ever since. I wonder how he knew they were burley? Maybe Lala and myself will have to fight over who gets first dibs on the burley men? Although, I know Lala’s heart belongs to Mac. I am sure Mac would be jazzed to meet his one and only loyal fan.

I say Tutu. You say Tetbury. Oh, heck, who cares?

Ah, I forgot to add to the list of the guilty parties:
The Masons
Castro
The Black Panthers
The militant branch of the Salvation Army
Che Guevara
The Grey Panthers
The Veterans of Foreign Wars (nefarious ex-military types)
Ralph Nader (why not?)

Did I miss anyone?

How could you forget:

The Irish!!

And, of course, those of "semi-Asiatic background"

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by Bert Tansill


Bunny is being over-enthusiastic and over-zealous in her hatred of Dr MacDonald. She shouldn't attempt to over-do it.

There isn't a particle of evidence to back up those false allegations. I don't know if Tim Junkin or Hart Miles read this forum but I would be interested in their firm advice with regard to Bunny's latest misrepresentations about Dr MacDonald.



Ooooooh. Better watch out, Bunny! Tim Junkin or Hart Miles may have some firm advice. Junkin and Miles may also be, like our Mr. Tansill, unable to understand sarcasm when they read it. See, Bert knows how to do it; when you want to slander someone (e.g. calling a woman a "murderer" who was never convicted or even charged with the crime) or cast ethnic slurs, do it with against dead people.

[lucielle]

Originally posted by caphill


What did her admittedly being strung out on drugs 9 years prior have to do what memories she had from that period suddenly relapsing between Aug 16th and Aug 17th when she was sober.



Ummmmm, have you ever been addicted to drugs? My memories from the time I was strung out are all one big blur--and believe me that Helena Stoekley was MUCH more strung out than I was. Most of your memories tend to all blend together, I have about 3 years of my life that is all blurred into about one long weekend. They ahve all been compressed--what I can even remember now, anyway.

How can you explain that most of what Helena said she remembered was wrong? You can't. She was wrong because she was not there. Period.

[lucielle]

Originally posted by caphill

Blackburn objected everytime Segal tried to bring out that she
had a different testimony that what she had said the previous day. It took 26 years to hear what happened in the little chat with Blackburn. There is also an affidavit that was taken the next day of Helena saying she was afraid of those "damn prosecutors" sitting there as her reason for her memory lapse.



how funny! Do you know that the weekend that she was in NC to testify she also called the judge to say that she felt threated by MacDonald's lawyers?

:rolleyes:

[lucielle]

Originally posted by Bunny2
Hi, Lucielle! I agree with you about Stoeckley, and the jurors did too. In fact, one of them said it pretty well: "A confession by a pathetic acid head such as Helena Stoeckley does not deter for an instant from the mountains of evidence against MacDonald presented at the trial."

And by virtue of Mac's own big mouth over the years, and the recent DNA results which were so devastating to the defense, the evidence that no "intruders" were in the apartment and that Mac himself murdered his family has only grown stronger.

Agreed. All you need to do to figure this case out is follow the blood trail. If this had been enraged hippies (which is kind of an oxymoron) why would they move the bodies? They would have no need. WHy wipe off the weapons? (WHich there were only 2 of btw) There would be no need. WHy leave MacDonald alive after the ruthless slaughter of the least likely to be able to fight them off? He was barely even scratched!

[cami]

Originally posted by caphill
[B]Just been reading the response. Found a questionable part o page 20. There is discussion of Stoeckley's description of the hobby horse that was broken and would not roll. The Government refutes this by boldly stating the horse was suspended on 4 springs rather than wheels and the springs were not broken. In their exhibit (Tab 8) they show a very poor quality photo of a spring horse that was supposedly taken through the window by a local publication as their proof of this spring horse.


Is it possible you can post the link please Cappy. I don't see any spring horse in Tab 8 or is the quality that poor that I missed it, going to double check....thanks.....

[byn63]

Originally posted by barskin&co.


How could you forget:

The Irish!!

And, of course, those of "semi-Asiatic background"

Now, now, musn't forget those of us of Scottish decent either! Did you remember the vampires?

[cami]

Originally posted by Bert Tansill
I think Fred Kassab was a very dangerous man.

I don't know why he suddenly switched sides and campaigned to have Dr MacDonald prosecuted. There was nothing in the Article 32 transcript that indicated MacDonald guilt for the MacDonald murders. Dr MacDonald was never arrested until Murtagh and Dupree got their claws into him, ten years after the events took place.

It could just be Kassab's semi-Asiatic background and a lack of character and general reliability. Dr MacDonald called him "a funny sort of a friend." Kassab was not the sort of person you would want on your left flank in the heat of a battle.

Knock it off. We've told you again and again you will not get away with reviling the Kassabs.

Mr. Kassab was born in Canada, I think that makes him a Canadian don't you? And you know perfectly well he was a war hero, so knock it off. If you really are British, you're slamming a vet that saved your damn country from German occupation.

Perhaps you should have someone interpret the Article 32 testimony for you since you apparently fail to understand the medical testimony and Ice Pick's own testimony.

[cami]

Originally posted by byn63


Now, now, musn't forget those of us of Scottish decent either! Did you remember the vampires?

LOl I bet the french are next. Let's see, I am of British/Irish and French descent. I am on his hitlist aaaaahahahahahahaha

[Spamela]

I thought the gov's picture of the horse through the window was to demonstrate that Helena talking about a toy horse did not mean she was in the house, just that she saw a picture of it in the newspaper. And she was wrong in that she said the hourse had wheels and was broken, when it had springs and was not broken.

[Spamela]

Originally posted by cami


LOl I bet the french are next. Let's see, I am of British/Irish and French descent. I am on his hitlist aaaaahahahahahahaha

You are, indeed, cami. Be afraid, be very afraid. I have German and Irish, so you KNOW what kind of a person I AM.

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by Spamela


You are, indeed, cami. Be afraid, be very afraid. I have German and Irish, so you KNOW what kind of a person I AM.

Hey! In the late 60's- early 70's I dropped "groovy" acid. I don't think I ever wore a floppy hat, though, but, I can't remember with absolute certainty about that, if you know what I mean (and I think you do).

And, I'm Jewish!!!

[barskin&co.]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Would somebody just wake me up when something sensible is posted? TIA

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by Spamela
I thought the gov's picture of the horse through the window was to demonstrate that Helena talking about a toy horse did not mean she was in the house, just that she saw a picture of it in the newspaper. And she was wrong in that she said the hourse had wheels and was broken, when it had springs and was not broken.Not only that, but if I'm not mistake she admitted to hearing about the murders on the radio that morning.

Poor Helena. Just one more of Mac's many victims...

:(

[audpaud]

Finished up my re-read of Fatal Vision over the weekend . . . struck again by the pointless tragedy of it all.:(

I have several questions/comments--one that really sticks out in my mind is WTH happened with Segal and his closing statement at trial?:confused: All those years to prepare . . . was he so infected/influenced by psycho-mac's gov't/Kassab Hate that he was unable to be coherent? Was he operating on macMonsters explicit instructions on things to cover? Struck dumb by the realization that there was no way to summarize the defense in a good light so went for diversionary ramblings?

Curious.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by lucielle
Agreed. All you need to do to figure this case out is follow the blood trail. If this had been enraged hippies (which is kind of an oxymoron) why would they move the bodies? They would have no need. WHy wipe off the weapons? (WHich there were only 2 of btw) There would be no need. WHy leave MacDonald alive after the ruthless slaughter of the least likely to be able to fight them off? He was barely even scratched!Good points, lucielle, and there are quite a few other questions that arise when trying to fit the idea of "intruders" into Mac's stories. Virtually nothing fits at all when trying to imagine "intruders" committing the murders, but so many questions are answered when one knows that Mac himself did it. How did they get him to leave his bloody footprint in Colette's blood, exiting but not entering Kristen's room? Which one of them took off his pajama top, wore it around the house and then put it on Colette and stabbed her through it, then took it off and put it back on Mac's unconscious body? Mac woke to the sounds of Colette and Kim being brutalized, but the weapons used against them were, according to Mac, being used against him in the living room at the time, so how did they manage to be in two places at once? How was Mazerolle in jail and in the apartment at the same time? How was Mitchell attacking Colette in the MB and Mac in the living room at the same time? How did the group convince Mac to demonstrate the consciousness of his guilt so many times over the years?

As I've said before: Questions, questions, questions, and only one answer: Mac murdered his family and there never were any "intruders" at all.

[lucielle]

Originally posted by barskin&co.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Would somebody just wake me up when something sensible is posted? TIA

HEY!

I posted something semi-sensible..........:D

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by lucielle


HEY!

I posted something semi-sensible..........:D

Thanks, lucy!

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by Bert Tansill


I'm inclined to agree with audpaud about this.

Bernie Segal's closing argument at the 1979 MacDonald trial was an example, to me, of how not to do it. That was not Dr MacDonald's fault. It was a tragedy for Dr MacDonald.

Segal was like a public speaker who makes an incredibly long and rambling speech, and goes on for far too long, and then doesn't know when to stop. The audience becomes bored and restless, and even sleepy. That's not good news for a lawyer who has a personal conviction in the merits of his client's case.

Segal was never direct, and he never really managed to get to the point. He got close on occasions. Personally I consider it a mistake by Segal and Wade Smith not to have cross-examined the very inexperienced so-called blood expert Terry Laber at the 1979 trial, when Laber was pontificating his nonsense about the pajama pocket. That created a totally false impression on the jury. Laber's testimony was rather like barskin's postings on this forum, lacking in profound study.

I believe 1970 MacDonald lawyer Eisman would have done a much better job at the 1979 closing argument and he would have been much more aggressive with Terry Laber's testimony.

I'm not questioning Segal's knowledge of the law, or his integrity. I should imagine he has been an excellent law professor. There would probably be no problems, or time limits, to his long and rambling lectures there. It's just that Segal was never a natural advocate who could enthrall and enchain a jury with his wit, which was what Dr MacDonald needed at the 1979 trial.

Whether it was Segal's fault or not, Segal did allow himself to be cheated at the 1979 trial by Murtagh, Blackburn and Dupree with regard to the MacDonald forensic evidence, and Helena Stoeckley's testimony.

There was a newspaper article relevant to this matter recently by a British lawyer called Tim Langdale QC:

"I always find in making defence speeches that it's best to cut, cut, cut. A hundred points will occur to a lawyer. But you realise with experience - sometimes on your feet - don't bother. Keep it simple. It helps with a jury to say 'I've got ten points to make'. It engages their attention and focuses the advocate. I find it difficult listening to anyone for more than 45 minutes."


You're probably correct about that, Bert, but Mac still would have been convicted. It's the evidence, m'lord.

[caphill]

Originally posted by Spamela
I thought the gov's picture of the horse through the window was to demonstrate that Helena talking about a toy horse did not mean she was in the house, just that she saw a picture of it in the newspaper. And she was wrong in that she said the hourse had wheels and was broken, when it had springs and was not broken.

Stoeckley in her many statements about the bits and pieces of her memory said she remember the hobby horse in the baby's room. She said she backed into it or got on it and it had a broken spring.

No one knew it had a broken spring except the family members. The picture taken from the window by a reporter from the newpaper clearly show it was a hobby horse with springs. From the photo you can not tell there is a broken spring.

Murtagh stated that Helena is be disregarded in what she says about her memory of the horse. He said she said the horse was a rolling horse with wheels and she only knew about the horse from the newpaper and not from seeing it in the house. That a contradiction from the Murtagh camp because the newpaper pic clearly shows a spring hobbby horse.

The Kassab et al camp apparently disregarded Stoeckley's statements and said the hobby horse was not a spring horse but a rolling horse on wheels and then posted renditions/pics of a horse on wheels that were supposedly taken from the house.

There seems to be proven situation of contradictory information that was put on the web on the some Macdonald sites and what was actually in evidence from 1970. The statements about the horse from Kassab, Stoeckley and Murtagh are contradictory to the point of being amusing in their confusion of who said what.

Murtagh is saying that Stoeckley said it was a horse on wheels and she is lying because it is a horse on springs. Kassab et al is saying that Stoeckley said it was horse on springs and she lying because it was a horse on wheels and pics and renditions were shown of a horse on wheels.

Stoeckley also knew there was a "S" pattern carved on Kristen's chest and this was also not public knowledge. I didn't know about the her statements about the "S" pattern until I read Murtagh comments where he was using that statement from her as an example of why her credibility was at question. I guess Murtagh had not read the autopsy or he would have known that statement was profound proof that she knew of factual things about the stabbing of Kristen that was not public knowledge. It was something he had missed in the autopsy because at the time no real significance was placed on the "S" pattern.

[Bunny2]

I got to thinking about Mac's first descriptions of the mythical "intruders" today, and every time I do that, I always think how transparent some of the things he said were. Not only did the crime scene itself give him away as a liar from the very start, but even while he was in the hospital his statements were changing. For example, he told people on Feb. 17 that the boots the female "intruder" wore were white, but then told investigators they were dark brown or black! And how funny...he thinks things over and decides later that maybe he better try to cover himself a little better, so he says he doesn't know what color they were, and then in the same conversation (Pruett & Kearns interview) he says they were dark red! And then of course in 2003, long after he knew about the beige boots the CID had, he declares that the boots were "light in color." How funny, his thinking that he could just come up with new statements anytime he liked and that everyone would just automatcially believe him. Turns out he was wrong about that, for sure!

And then what does he do? On Feb. 17, he said he was fighting with three intruders. But overnight, after he'd had a chance to think things over, and after he realized that he'd blown it because he'd also told investigators that he heard Colette and Kim being attacked and that he hadn't left any room in his story for "intruders" in the MB, he suddenly changes his story and says he was fighting with only two intruders, in order to try to place one of them elsewhere in the house. No wonder investigators were suspicious of him; his stories were all over the map, and in the years since, he has just gone right on the same way, making up things as he goes along and trying to fit them into the known facts, a practice otherwise known as demonstrating the consciousness of one's guilt.

He says he "never really saw" the supposed female intruder, but also says he saw her only for a second or two. He didn't recognize Stoeckley at all when shown her photo in 1970 or in 1971, yet makes up the obvious lie in 1979 that he recognized her not only by how she looked, but also by her voice. Not only was he in a dark room when these mythical "intruders" were there, but he wasn't wearing his glasses, had bad nearsightedness, and the "intruders" were backlit. He said the female intruder never moved and was facing him, so he obviously not only could not have seen her very well, but he couldn't have seen that her hair (supposedly) came to the middle of her back. These things, and so very, very much more, show that obviously he did what he always did, simply tried to put the blame on innocent people instead of himself. He's not only a triple murderer, he's a compulsive liar as well.

It's too bad that Gunderson suffered from such an apparent lack of morals and ethics that he would deliberately fasten on poor, drug-addled Helena in order to make himself look good and perhaps accrue a few $ in the meantime. Beasley also seemed to think that Gunderson was using unethcal tactics, and of course once the Court got the story on Gunderson and Beasley and learned of their cut-and-paste jobs on those tapes, any credibility Gunderson might have once had pretty much went out the window.

[Bunny2]

I've been slowly making my way through all the many recent uploads on Christina's great site (www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com) and ran across something I'd never read before. This has to do with the "confirmatory" note (Glisson) which all this time, I thought the defense had always firmly stated the government deliberately withheld from them. Looks like Silverglate has a different idea about that!

Here, Murtagh has already told the judge that he (Murtagh) did some investigating and learned that John Crouchley and Karen Davidson had already left O'Neill's employ at the time the government sent the note. Since they'd already left, Murtagh argues, that's most likely why they never saw it.

Silverglate's comeback is very revealing as to the truth behind this issue (emphasis added):

www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/downloads/gov_2006-03-30_appndx_tab01_pt03.pdf

pp. 18-19: "First of all, government says that Crouchley and Davidson may have left or did leave the office before the confirmatory note arrived and that's why they didn't see it. This may be. It may have arrived after they left. That's because if it arrived it would have arrived in another batch of materials but we have done everything we can. O'Neill says he didn't see it. We have combed O'Neill's file. We have no explanation for what's not in there. We are not hiding anything because we obviously disclosed we had the black wool, we disclosed we had the first note. We don't know why we didn't get the second, whether it was released but never made it, no idea your honor..."

So, they admit they cannot find any real evidence to blame the government for their not receiving this note, and they admit that it could very well be true that they had the note but Crouchley and Davidson didn't see it because they didn't work there anymore, and they admit they have "no idea" what really happened.

I still need to do another read of all this, but if I'm reading things right, the final nail in this coffin was Murtagh's pointing out to Dupree the defense's own date stamp on the note, proving that the defense had indeed received it.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by caphill
Stoeckley also knew there was a "S" pattern carved on Kristen's chest and this was also not public knowledge.LOL!!

Gunderson: Okay. Helena, one of the babies had an "S" carved in its chest with an icepick.

This was long, long, long after the murders, and long after Mac had the autopsy reports. Do you even know when Gunderson interviewed Helena, Cappy? Can you show that Helena said anything about this in 1970 or when she testified at trial? As far as I can tell, the first time this was talked about with Helena was when Gunderson fed her this line of bull, but of course you knew that before you posted.

And of course you also knew that although some of the wounds were described as forming somewhat of an S-shape and were not "carved" as one would think of carving a whole, contiguous S, MacDonald probably didn't do that on purpose as he was stabbing Kristen; it was only a coincidence.

As I've posted before, if you look closely at those incredibly brutal wounds on Colette, Kim and Kristen, and you mentally lay the bodies side by side, you can discern that the wounds spell out "Jeffrey MacDonald is a murderer."

[caphill]

My source of information about Stoeckley making statements that one of the assailants had "carved" an "S" pattern on Kristen's chest was from Murtagh written response in one the appeals. He used her statments as an example of why she was not to be considered reliable in her knowledge or memories of being in the house that night.

When I read Murtagh statements I immediately went back to the autopsy report and such enough there was the description from the pathologist about the the "S" pattern. The pathologist also included in his report a diagram showing the "S" pattern.

I have read the pathologist transcripts in the trial in 1979. In the Article 32 hearing the pathologist mentioned the "S" pattern. It seemed to be of no significance at time. It was years later that Stoeckley mentioned one the assailants carved or punched out an "S" pattern on Kristen's chest.

Did Murtagh put the pathologist on the stand and examine him about this "S' pattern? I am assuming he did not, since he didn't have knowledge of it when he wrote opposing remarks to appeal motions filed by MacDonald years later.

[liz-marie]

Originally posted by Bunny2

Sorry, Liz. I thought perhaps you'd be interested in expanding your education. I guess I should have known better considering the rest of your posts.

thanks for your rude post you obviously have nothing better to do ... get a life,
in England 'sarcasm is the lowest form of wit'

[rashomon]

Hey Bertie, I have a new suspect to add to your already impressive list: Martha Stewart!.
It is a pity that her alibi for Feb 17/70 has never been checked. Typical of those bungling investigators - just another thing they forgot!
I strongly suspect that not only the 'acid queen' Helena, but also the 'housekeeeping queen' Martha was involved in the crimes: it was she who vacuumed the living room floor of fibers, who straightened out the magazines and wiped the fingerprints!! :)
In short, everything points in her direction. That woman should be checked again. Hmm, maybe she confessed to her cellmate (wasn't she in prison?), kinda like Susan Atkins confessed to her cellmate ...
Do you know if Ted Gunderson is still alive? For I want to e-mail him about this hot new lead!
:tongue:

[byn63]

Originally posted by Bunny2
I've been slowly making my way through all the many recent uploads on Christina's great site (www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com) and ran across something I'd never read before. This has to do with the "confirmatory" note (Glisson) which all this time, I thought the defense had always firmly stated the government deliberately withheld from them. Looks like Silverglate has a different idea about that!

Here, Murtagh has already told the judge that he (Murtagh) did some investigating and learned that John Crouchley and Karen Davidson had already left O'Neill's employ at the time the government sent the note. Since they'd already left, Murtagh argues, that's most likely why they never saw it.

Silverglate's comeback is very revealing as to the truth behind this issue (emphasis added):

www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/downloads/gov_2006-03-30_appndx_tab01_pt03.pdf

pp. 18-19: "First of all, government says that Crouchley and Davidson may have left or did leave the office before the confirmatory note arrived and that's why they didn't see it. This may be. It may have arrived after they left. That's because if it arrived it would have arrived in another batch of materials but we have done everything we can. O'Neill says he didn't see it. We have combed O'Neill's file. We have no explanation for what's not in there. We are not hiding anything because we obviously disclosed we had the black wool, we disclosed we had the first note. We don't know why we didn't get the second, whether it was released but never made it, no idea your honor..."

So, they admit they cannot find any real evidence to blame the government for their not receiving this note, and they admit that it could very well be true that they had the note but Crouchley and Davidson didn't see it because they didn't work there anymore, and they admit they have "no idea" what really happened.

I still need to do another read of all this, but if I'm reading things right, the final nail in this coffin was Murtagh's pointing out to Dupree the defense's own date stamp on the note, proving that the defense had indeed received it.

darn those date stamps! LOL! Proves that Inmate's lawyers are not above lying about things anymore than he is imo!

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by rashomon
Hey Bertie, I have a new suspect to add to your already impressive list: Martha Stewart!.
It is a pity that her alibi for Feb 17/70 has never been checked. Typical of those bungling investigators - just another thing they forgot!LOL! Good one, Rash. Yes, they certainly forgot about Martha, didn't they! Hey, come to think of it, she wears boots now and then, and on occasion has been known to wear black clothing. And just look at that chin-length blonde hair...is that a wig, perhaps? Maybe she was there to do a little more than just clean up the place! Did anyone spot her at Dunkin Donuts afterwards? We need a full-scale investigation into this! Has anyone alerted the CID and FBI yet?

:lol:

[Bunny2]

The more I read of the government's latest response and all those many attachments, the greater my admiration for Murtagh becomes. I remember CM telling me that at the drop of a hat Murtagh can rattle off all the several exhibit numbers for any exhibit, and I've also been told by others who have talked to people who know MacDonald well that Mac really doesn't have a clue as to the details in his case, that he essentially only skims things in order to try to spot anything he thinks he can use in his support and pays no attention to the rest (and his handful of remaining supporters seem to follow the same course). From what I understand, Mac wouldn't know D229 from Q79, and based on her e-mails and the murderer's website, apparently neither would Kathryn.

Murtagh's been a tireless seeker of justice for Colette, Kim and Kristen since he first entered the case, he knows the evidence backwards and forwards, so much better than Mac's current lawyers seem to, and seeing this latest response which is so well prepared and well supported, I have no doubt that he will continue the fight to see that Mac remains in prison where he belongs.

[byn63]

Originally posted by rashomon
Do you know if Ted Gunderson is still alive? For I want to e-mail him about this hot new lead!
:tongue:


LOL! Rash thanks for the laugh! btw - I am of Scottish/Welsh heritage and Native American and probably some others. I had Quakers in my family and possibly some Mennonite. So, add me to the list of suspects in 1970 I had long blonde hair, often wore boots as described by Inmate, and hot pants were the height of fashion..............................

(of course I was only 6 yrs old, in Maryland, and no where near tall enough to have been seen behind the 3 males............unless, maybe I was standing on something? and yes I owned a floppy hat too!)

[caphill]

Originally posted by byn63



LOL! Rash thanks for the laugh! btw - I am of Scottish/Welsh heritage and Native American and probably some others. I had Quakers in my family and possibly some Mennonite. So, add me to the list of suspects in 1970 I had long blonde hair, often wore boots as described by Inmate, and hot pants were the height of fashion..............................

(of course I was only 6 yrs old, in Maryland, and no where near tall enough to have been seen behind the 3 males............unless, maybe I was standing on something? and yes I owned a floppy hat too!)


Since Forestville Md is just out Pa Ave extended from Washington DC was it possible your father worked for the CID out of the DC area office?

[audpaud]

I see barskin quoting Bert Tansill in response to my Post about Segals closing statement . . . but don't see the original Post by Bert (?????)

'Sup with that?:confused:

[rashomon]

Originally posted by audpaud
I see barskin quoting Bert Tansill in response to my Post about Segals closing statement . . . but don't see the original Post by Bert (?????)

'Sup with that?:confused:
Hmm, I can't find any of Bert Tansill's posts here anymore.
Maybe he was thrown out? This would not have been the first time he was banned from a message board. (A&E for example)

I haven't read any of his posts from the past weeks, but could it be that he once again posted some of his r*cist comments here?
So maybe that's why he had to leave (hopefully forever!).

[Bunny2]

Hey audpaud and Rash, yesterday evening I was trying to hunt down some of his posts so I could show the moderators some of his r*cist comments and ethnic slurs, and like you two, I couldn't find them.

I don't know for sure what happened, but I hope those posts are gone for good and I hope Bert/Arthur is gone for good. I want to discuss the case here, and enjoy debating issues with others, but having to deal with his lunacy day after day for months on end (almost a year now) is/was very tiresome, to say the least.

There is nothing wrong with a difference of opinion, but we all know that is not what was happening here. Just as he did on the other boards from which he was banned, his game was only to post outright lies and total absurdities and "theories without fact" because he enjoyed seeing us having to spend time replying to and correcting that nonsense.

Well, whatever happened, let's move forward now and have some good and TRUE discussions about the case! I'm looking forward to it.

I was reading on another board yesterday and saw someone talk about Colette's blood being 7 ft. up on Kimberly's wall, and the person went on to talk about Colette being assaulted in there. I knew of course that when he talked about her being assaulted in Kim's room he had confused Kim with Kristen, but wasn't Colette's blood indeed found high on Kim's wall? I was thinking it was, and that it was from Mac having brutalized Colette in Kristen's room and then gone to Kim's room and hit Kim (again)?

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by rashomon

Hmm, I can't find any of Bert Tansill's posts here anymore.
Maybe he was thrown out? This would not have been the first time he was banned from a message board. (A&E for example)

I haven't read any of his posts from the past weeks, but could it be that he once again posted some of his r*cist comments here?
So maybe that's why he had to leave (hopefully forever!).

Yeah, Bert is gone...but his other identity is apparently still among us. So we still have more nonsense, lies, lunatic theories, r@cist comments and slander of the victims' family to look forward to. Sigh. :rolleyes:

[byn63]

Originally posted by caphill



Since Forestville Md is just out Pa Ave extended from Washington DC was it possible your father worked for the CID out of the DC area office?

Nope! First, my dad was Navy when he was in the service. Secondly, he was not in law enforcement, but he was a Fed.

[byn63]

Originally posted by Bunny2
I was reading on another board yesterday and saw someone talk about Colette's blood being 7 ft. up on Kimberly's wall, and the person went on to talk about Colette being assaulted in there. I knew of course that when he talked about her being assaulted in Kim's room he had confused Kim with Kristen, but wasn't Colette's blood indeed found high on Kim's wall? I was thinking it was, and that it was from Mac having brutalized Colette in Kristen's room and then gone to Kim's room and hit Kim (again)?

hey bunny - I think, although I am not sure and do not have my notes handy, that they did find some type A blood in Kimmie's room. I believe it was in and/or around the groove or scrape mark made by the club on the ceiling near Kimmie's bed. I will try to find the notes - but sometimes the blood evidence is so spread out it might take some time. Maybe JTF or cami, or rashomon knows..........................................any one?

[cami]

Originally posted by byn63


hey bunny - I think, although I am not sure and do not have my notes handy, that they did find some type A blood in Kimmie's room. I believe it was in and/or around the groove or scrape mark made by the club on the ceiling near Kimmie's bed. I will try to find the notes - but sometimes the blood evidence is so spread out it might take some time. Maybe JTF or cami, or rashomon knows..........................................any one?

they found Colette's type A blood on the north wall of Kim's bedroom, about seven feet above the bed.

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by caphill

Since Forestville Md is just out Pa Ave extended from Washington DC was it possible your father worked for the CID out of the DC area office?

Originally posted by byn63

Nope! First, my dad was Navy when he was in the service. Secondly, he was not in law enforcement, but he was a Fed.

and thirdly, what is it you're trying to imply cappy?

[Spamela]

Originally posted by Bunny2
Hey audpaud and Rash, yesterday evening I was trying to hunt down some of his posts so I could show the moderators some of his r*cist comments and ethnic slurs, and like you two, I couldn't find them.



See Bunny, I came over and chased Bert away! Darn, I'm good!

[caphill]

Originally posted by cami


they found Colette's type A blood on the north wall of Kim's bedroom, about seven feet above the bed.


Yes Colette's blood was found in Kim's room on the wall. Kristen's blood was also found in Kimberly's room.

Kristin's blood was found on the pillow from the master bedroom, floor board and ceiling of the master bedroom, on the portion of the rubber glove in the master bedroom , in Kim's room andd also in dining room floor near the kitchen.

Kim's blood and mixtures were found in Kristen's room and also found in the dining room floor near the kitchen.

There was blood found on an olive drab colored Poncho, located in a residence in Fayetteville, NC during investigation expanded to that area involving possible other subjects, later determined to have nothing to do with this investigation.

The location of the Poncho located in another residence does not mention whose the Poncho was found in whose resident. Of course it is not mentioned how it was determined this blood did not belong to Colette or the girls. Since there was no DNA available at the time how could the identity of that blood be determined.

With the blood of Kristen, Kim and Colette found in each others bedrooms, hallway and dining room would be evidence that there was a transference of their blood from the murder weapons, hands and feet.

I guess the same absurb theory could be offered that Kristen, Kimberly and Colette where running around between rooms or Dr. MacDonald was hauling around the three bodies up and down the hallway from the kitchen, the dining room and the three bedrooms.

Since Kristen was supposedly killed last while she slept in her urine stained panties and pj bottoms and Colette regained consciousness and run into her room to protect her before she was wrapped in a sheet and hauled back to the her bedroom for a final stabbing, it is hard to explain Kristen's blood on the wall and ceiling of the master bedroom and the in the kitchen, dining room, Kim's room and living room .

What is even more difficult to explain is why Kim's blood that was AB was found with only blood specific "A' with an assumption it was really AB with deterioration of the blood specific "B" Blood type is A,B, AB, or O. To find A type and determined it is or could be AB with the "B" factor missing is a bad scientific assumption and it likely an example of giving false information to make the evidence fit the theory. The blood that classified as Kim's AB with a missing "B" factor just happens to be in the master bedroom.

This also explains why the government has fought to not allow any DNA testing of the blood. The blood spots identified as Kims with half her type deteriorated would prove to be Colette's A type and destroy the theory that little Kim was running around the master bedroom as she got her head bashed by a club.

I don't how the theory fits with the blood of the three victims being the dining room floor and all over the house.

[byn63]

Originally posted by caphill


Kristin's blood was found on the pillow from the master bedroom, floor board and ceiling of the master bedroom, on the portion of the rubber glove in the master bedroom , in Kim's room andd also in dining room floor near the kitchen.

Kim's blood and mixtures were found in Kristen's room and also found in the dining room floor near the kitchen.

With the blood of Kristen, Kim and Colette found in each others bedrooms, hallway and dining room would be evidence that there was a transference of their blood from the murder weapons, hands and feet.

This also explains why the government has fought to not allow any DNA testing of the blood. The blood spots identified as Kims with half her type deteriorated would prove to be Colette's A type and destroy the theory that little Kim was running around the master bedroom as she got her head bashed by a club.


ok - First, I never heard or read anything that said Kristen's blood type was found in the master bedroom, in Kimmie's room or in the dining room.

Blood that was a combo of Types A and AB was found in a smear type stain in the dining room. Probably from the bloody bedding being there for some period of time.

Kimmie's blood was found in a small area of Kristen's bedcovers. Most likely a transfer stain from the club which had both Colette and Kimmie's blood on it. Colette's blood was in more area, showing that she received a vicious beating in Kristen's room as well as the master bedroom.

The Government has argued against blood being tested for DNA because there is very little if any left. In 1970, and subsequent testing most of the stains were used up in typing tests. There is no big conspiracy. That and degradation of the stains due to age most likely preclude there being any value in testing the stains that remain.

[spurs01]

Hi all. Long time, no post.

I was skimming posts tonight (which is all I've had time for lately).

Did I read there are pages missing from the uploads on Christina's website, or did I read wrong? I ask because I helped her with obtaining the recent Pacer uploads, and want to be sure I didn't miss anything. It was a rather lengthy process, so if I missed something, I wouldn't be surprised! If you feel there are pages missing, please let me know which ones and I'll obtain them and e-mail them to Christina.

Thank ya'll!

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by spurs01
Hi all. Long time, no post.


howdy stranger! can't answer your question about possible missing documents, but it's great to see you posting again :)

[spurs01]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle

howdy stranger! can't answer your question about possible missing documents, but it's great to see you posting again :)

Thanks! We've been incredibly busy (building a patio, planting, etc., etc., etc.)

It's good to see you too.

Like I said, I skimmed, but I wanted to be sure I didn't mess up on the documents.

No food for the sheeples! ;-)

[caphill]

Originally posted by byn63


ok - First, I never heard or read anything that said Kristen's blood type was found in the master bedroom, in Kimmie's room or in the dining room.

Blood that was a combo of Types A and AB was found in a smear type stain in the dining room. Probably from the bloody bedding being there for some period of time.

Kimmie's blood was found in a small area of Kristen's bedcovers. Most likely a transfer stain from the club which had both Colette and Kimmie's blood on it. Colette's blood was in more area, showing that she received a vicious beating in Kristen's room as well as the master bedroom.

The Government has argued against blood being tested for DNA because there is very little if any left. In 1970, and subsequent testing most of the stains were used up in typing tests. There is no big conspiracy. That and degradation of the stains due to age most likely preclude there being any value in testing the stains that remain.


There was much more of Kristen blood in the master bedroom than Kimberly's. There very little of Colette's blood in Kristen's room. There was a spot on the wall, on the bedspread, on the sheet and plastic sheet near the top of the bed.

Kristen had blood on the walls and the ceiling of the master bed, pillow, hallway floor and door jambs, foot board of bed in master bedroom as well as foot board in Kimberly room.

This is what is shocking to read. The theory and the explanation of the blood shows Kristen blood everywhere not Kimberly. Kristen's blood is the on the ceiling near the light fixture in the master bedroom not Kimberly's as has been reported over and over again on this message board.

ANother interesting thing that is in the testimony/statment of Paulk, who was one of the first to arrive on the scene. His description of the bed was " the bedding was turned down as if someone had just gotten up' He noticed the wet stain in the middle of the bed. That indicated the sheets and beeding were still on the bed when he arrived. The sheet appears to have been pulled off later. A neighbor who was a chaplain gave a statement there was sheet placed over Colette when he came in the house as Dr. MacDonald was being taken out to the hospital.

I was conveyed to the jury that the sheet was used to roll Colette up and haul her from bedroom to bedroom. I guess after doing tht Dr. MacDonald put the sheet back on the bed and turn it down to look like someone had just gotten up to fool Paulk. The this sheet is used to cover Colette before the Chaplain arrives. This sheet is thrown aside on the floor when the bodies are picked up. That was a very busy sheet that night.

I don't how the story was sold to the jury about Kristen blood being on the ceiling in the masterbed, on the walls, the pillow and crusts in Colette's hands. The government's story was after MacDonald killed Colette and Kim, he had to go in and kill the baby so she would rat on him. He got 1st degree murder on Kristen only. Of course the blood of Kristen being in the master bedroom, in Kim's room all in the hallway and on the door jambs to master bedroom and Kim room is in contrast to that theory of Kristen being killed as a after thought to cover up the other killings.

Her blood appears to me to have been transferred from the two murder weapons used on her to Kim and Colette's room. Kim and Colette blood found in Kristen's room seems to have been transferred from the murder weapons being used to stab them.The two knives and a icepick being used were surely dripping in blood from one victim to other.

DNA that is on a slide or stored in a vial can be preserved for DNA testing for years. The blood has never been DNA tested at any time. I am sure of the many items of blood there are many that could be tested today.

Stoeckley, at one time, made statements that Mitchell was injuried in the struggle. He had O type blood, the same as Kristen. I say let the blood be tested and that would put a stop to all the speculations of whose blood was found where.

[Bunny2]

I don't believe there was any of Kristen's blood in the master bedroom at all. In fact, the evidence shows that Kristen never left her bed. MacDonald murdered her in her own bed.

Kristen's room, where MacDonald brutalized Colette so horribly, had Colette's blood in various places but not on the floor. When MacDonald had smashed Colette to the point where she was dead or dying on Kristen's bed, he then retrieved the bedspread and top sheet from the master bedroom, carried it into Kristen's room, put Colette on it, stepped either in a pool of blood on that bedding or onto Colette's body itself, made bare footprints in Colette's blood as he exited Kristen's room, and carried Colette down the hallway back into the master bedroom, where he unrolled her (this is possibly when her face touched the floor and gathered unsourced fibers), and posed her. He then put his pajama top on her body (to account for all the blood on it), and made that horrible, irrevocable decision to stab her through it repeatedly, creating 48 perfectly round, cylindrical holes in the pajama top which matched 21 holes in Colette's chest.

No vampires were present.

Anyone who claims that "the theory and the explanation of the blood shows Kristen blood everywhere not Kimberly," or who would find credible Edwards' "sheet" statement and his statements in general, has either failed to understand the facts in the case, or has ignored them (such as the statements of Mica and Ivory about Edwards, and the many posts about this that already exist on various major MacDonald boards), or that person is a fraud. JMPO.

The recent DNA results only added immensely to the already overwhelming evidence against MacDonald, since the crucial "mystery hair" in Colette's hand was his very own, and since the results showed that no "intruder's" DNA matched any exhibit at all.

MacDonald's story was phony from the start. He only dug his own grave ever more deeply by continuing to lie for all these many years afterwards about his having murdered his family. His best (and IMO only) hope for ever being released would be to confess, and I doubt we'll ever see that happen. His ego means more to him than anyone's life, including his own: He'd rather rot in prison than take a hit to his pride by confessing. Good. I hope he continues to follow the same course of action until he draws his last breath, since every lie he tells and allows to stand on his website is yet one more demonstration of the consciousness of his guilt.

[Bunny2]

Hey, Spurs, CM got those first few that you sent and those did get online. Then I helped her get all the rest, and we put those up, but then in reading them, there's a reference to Mac's "Motion to Expand the Record," which she doesn't have, or at least I haven't seen it yet. She's going to have that soon, I hope, so it should show up before too long.

FYI, this is one reference to it, which appears as a footnote on pp. 44-45 of the gov't response to the Britt/Blackburn motion:

"MacDonald's 'Motion to Expand the Record' was accompanied by a 'Statement of Itemized Material Evidence' which contained 48 paragraphs itemizing matters that MacDonald claims should be considered in assessing the sufficiency of his instant Section 2255 motion.

"The only paragraphs which contain 'new' evidence not previously litigated are paragraphs '32' (describing Britt's transportation of Stoeckley to Raleigh), '33" (Blackburn's alleged threat to Stoeckley), '37' (Blackburn's 1993 conviction), '41, n 6' (affidavits of Lane, Buffkin and Morse) and '46' (DNA results). The assertions in paragraphs '32,' '33,' '37' and '41, n 6' are already in the record by virtue of the Court of Appeals having authorized the instant petition, consequently there is no legitimate need to 'expand' the record for their inclusion, but MacDonald does not get to relitigate these issues. Paragraph '47' is already the subject of a separate motion to add some of the results of the DNA testing as an additional predicate to which the United States will respond separately."

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by Spamela
See Bunny, I came over and chased Bert away! Darn, I'm good! ]It's almost like a miracle. One down, one to go. :)

BTW, you had me laughing with your post over on A&E...

hissssssssss MERROWWWW!!!!

:lol:

[Bunny2]

Thanks to all for those confirmatory replies about Colette's blood being found in Kim's room! Lots to keep track of, and this was one that I felt I knew from way back, but then saw that post of mirse's and started doubting my own memory. Good to know you people are on the ball. Saved me some time having to search through the records again. Thanks!

[caphill]

Originally posted by Bunny2
I don't believe there was any of Kristen's blood in the master bedroom at all. In fact, the evidence shows that Kristen never left her bed. MacDonald murdered her in her own bed.


Snipped



Bunny, are you now deciding that the CID reports that are posted on Christina's site are incorrect.

Did the just make up the report of where the blood was found and whose type it was?

I think from the serious mistakes you make in your posts regarding the written documents of evidence , the affidavits and the trial transcripts that you must spend time helping Christina post the information on her site but never take the time to read it.

Go read the CIDs report of the blood and come back and tell us how you think the CID filed a bogus report. You were not at the crime scene so how do you know that the CID is wrong in their report.

Come back tell where the blood spots from Colette were found in Kristen's room. Tell us how these spots are indicative of a slaughter of collette in that room.

How about some facts rather pure emotional hype. Look at the pics on Christina' site of the Kristen's bedroom. Let your eyes show you that the blood was localized on the bed and body of Kristen and was her blood with the exception of a few spots on top of her sheet and plastic sheet near the top of her head and a spot on the wall that belonged to Colette. There is no evidence that there was blood splatter from Colette in that bedroom. Look at the pics of Colette in the master bedroom and you will see that is where she was attacked, clubbed first, went down and then stabbed numberous times after she was down. Read the autopsy and you find Colette was struck with a club as she struggled to defend herself with her arms and hands. Both arms broken and then the blows to her head took her down and the stabs were after she was down on her back. With the kind of injuries to head and face she didn't get up and run around anywhere. From her blood on the walls, ceiling, furniture, closets etc it is quite evident she was struck in her bedroom.

How about those 30 something cuts and puncture holes in Colette's pj top . How did Mac's pj top match up with the holes in Colette's top. Oops I forgot. They forgot about her pj top when they did the fold and refold refold to try to match up some of Collete wounds to the 48 holes in Mac's pj's. How many wounds did Colette have on her chest, neck. SHe had many more that 21 wounds and stabs.

[byn63]

Originally posted by Bunny2
I don't believe there was any of Kristen's blood in the master bedroom at all. In fact, the evidence shows that Kristen never left her bed. MacDonald murdered her in her own bed.

No vampires were present.

Anyone who claims that "the theory and the explanation of the blood shows Kristen blood everywhere not Kimberly," or who would find credible Edwards' "sheet" statement and his statements in general, has either failed to understand the facts in the case, or has ignored them (such as the statements of Mica and Ivory about Edwards, and the many posts about this that already exist on various major MacDonald boards), or that person is a fraud. JMPO.

correlates with mpo 100%.

The recent DNA results only added immensely to the already overwhelming evidence against MacDonald, since the crucial "mystery hair" in Colette's hand was his very own, and since the results showed that no "intruder's" DNA matched any exhibit at all.

I agree as do most SERIOUS case researchers.

MacDonald's story was phony from the start. He only dug his own grave ever more deeply by continuing to lie for all these many years afterwards about his having murdered his family.

phony seems a bit kind, but it will work. Inmate is a :chicken: and continues to wave his white feather seemingly proud to be a :chicken: imo

God Bless Colette, Kimberly, Kristen and the Unborn son!:rose:

[byn63]

Originally posted by caphill



Bunny, are you now deciding that the CID reports that are posted on Christina's site are incorrect.

Did the just make up the report of where the blood was found and whose type it was?



Link please - or at least the NAME of this CID document. Which document are you claiming of the CID reports that found Kristen's type O blood in a large quantity or in a small quantity in the Master Bedroom? The reports I read seem to state there is massive amounts of Type A blood, Type AB blood, and some miniscule amounts of Type B blood.

[cami]

Originally posted by caphill



There was much more of Kristen blood in the master bedroom than Kimberly's. There very little of Colette's blood in Kristen's room. There was a spot on the wall, on the bedspread, on the sheet and plastic sheet near the top of the bed.

Kristen had blood on the walls and the ceiling of the master bed, pillow, hallway floor and door jambs, foot board of bed in master bedroom as well as foot board in Kimberly room.

This is what is shocking to read. The theory and the explanation of the blood shows Kristen blood everywhere not Kimberly. Kristen's blood is the on the ceiling near the light fixture in the master bedroom not Kimberly's as has been reported over and over again on this message board.

I agree with you Cappy, it is very shocking to read. Shocking that you do not comprehend what you are reading or if you do, you just don't care about the false information you are expounding on here.

Kim's blood was in the MB, not Kristens. Colette's blood was found in massive quantities in Kris's room. These are undisputed facts of this case. You can't change them to suit your conspiracy theory no matter how hard you try Cappy. Kris's blood with the exception of the wall outside the main bathroom and a drop on Mac's glasses, was all contained to her bedroom.

[cami]

Originally posted by caphill

[QUOTE]Come back tell where the blood spots from Colette were found in Kristen's room. Tell us how these spots are indicative of a slaughter of collette in that room.

I'm not Bunny, but here you go, you can go and read it yourself from the link, of course, you already know it but you continue to post false information in your desire to avenge that ice pick baby killer.

Colette's blood was found:

On the west wall in Kris's room
On the green coloured bedspread on Kris's bed
On the plastic sheet from the upper part of Kris's mattress in Kris's room.
On the pink coloured blanket from the bed in Kris's room
On the bottom sheet from the bed in Kris's room.


How about some facts rather pure emotional hype. Look at the pics on Christina' site of the Kristen's bedroom. Let your eyes show you that the blood was localized on the bed and body of Kristen and was her blood with the exception of a few spots on top of her sheet and plastic sheet near the top of her head and a spot on the wall that belonged to Colette. There is no evidence that there was blood splatter from Colette in that bedroom. Look at the pics of Colette in the master bedroom and you will see that is where she was attacked, clubbed first, went down and then stabbed numberous times after she was down. Read the autopsy and you find Colette was struck with a club as she struggled to defend herself with her arms and hands. Both arms broken and then the blows to her head took her down and the stabs were after she was down on her back. With the kind of injuries to head and face she didn't get up and run around anywhere. From her blood on the walls, ceiling, furniture, closets etc it is quite evident she was struck in her bedroom.

How about the complete facts? Can you see the Type A cast-off blood on the west wall of Kris's room? No, you can't because the photos are not in evidence. They are localized to Kris and her bed.

Yes, we know Colette was first attacked in the master bedroom and that she bled there, she was most likely knocked unconscious there--no body denies that. Cappy, there is irrefutable proof that Collete left the master bedroom and ended up in Kris's room on her bed, where she bled in massive quantities. There is also irrefutable proof that she was then placed on her front, covered with the blue bedsheet, at which time her bloody pajamas transferred fabric impressions to the sheet, and carried back to the MB where her body was found. Even your hero's expert, Dr. Thornton agrees. Who are you to dispute these facts?

How about those 30 something cuts and puncture holes in Colette's pj top . How did Mac's pj top match up with the holes in Colette's top. Oops I forgot. They forgot about her pj top when they did the fold and refold refold to try to match up some of Collete wounds to the 48 holes in Mac's pj's. How many wounds did Colette have on her chest, neck. SHe had many more that 21 wounds and stabs.

LOL, why would they need to fold and refold Colette's pajama top? It wasn't torn nor folded on top of her chest. She was wearing it so it's only logical to believe it sustained 21 ice pick holes. What don't you understand about folded material and an ice pick. Four folds, one thrust of the ice pick, creates four holes. Just like a hole puncher punching through a stack of paper. Oh and guess what Cappy, the thrusts were so violent that I can imagine fibres being pulled back out the holes especially as the ice pick became wet with blood....so don't even bother with the directionality of threads nonsense.

[cami]

Originally posted by caphill



Yes Colette's blood was found in Kim's room on the wall. Kristen's blood was also found in Kimberly's room.

Kristin's blood was found on the pillow from the master bedroom, floor board and ceiling of the master bedroom, on the portion of the rubber glove in the master bedroom , in Kim's room andd also in dining room floor near the kitchen.

Can you post a link to this document that shows these blood findings, please.

[Spamela]

Originally posted by Bunny2
It's almost like a miracle. One down, one to go. :)

BTW, you had me laughing with your post over on A&E...

hissssssssss MERROWWWW!!!!

:lol:

A miracle? Does that mean I am a saint? Saint Spamela of the Righteous Pen. I like the sound of that!

[caphill]

Originally posted by cami


Can you post a link to this document that shows these blood findings, please.

www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/CID_record_3_01.html

You will find 25 exhibits there. From that information it would appear that the knives and icepicks that stabbed Kristen had her blood on them and were carried into the master bedroom and kimberly's room to tranfer her blood as these weapons were being used on Colette and Kimberly.

[caphill]

Originally posted by caphill


www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/CID_record_3_01.html

You will find 25 exhibits there. From that information it would appear that the knives and icepicks that stabbed Kristen had her blood on them and were carried into the master bedroom and kimberly's room to tranfer her blood as these weapons were being used on Colette and Kimberly.

Check Christina's site under scanned doc and look for the CID record 3 and read the 25 exhibits there. The link doesn't fully post here and doesn't take you there.

[Bunny2]

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/cid_record_3_05.html

In CID Record 3, the details of where Kristen's blood was found begin on page 5. No entry reflects any of Kristen's blood being found anywhere in the master bedroom, or anywhere else in the house except in her own room and along a baseboard in the bathroom and on the murderer's eyeglasses.

[Bunny2]

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/cid_record_3_05.html[/url]

In CID Record 3, no entry under the Type O listing on p. 5 shows any Type O found on the knife and icepick.

The findings for Exhibit B-1 (the sharp Old Hickory knife Mac used during the murders) revealed the presence of human blood of the International Blood Group A.

The findings for Exhibit C (the icepick) revealed the presence of human blood. Blood typing examinations were precluded due either to the paucity of the stain or the contamination of the stain.

Aside from that, Mac's lies were exposed from the start because he claimed to have woken and heard Colette and Kim screaming as they were being murdered, but the weapons with which they were being attacked were, according to MacD, being used against him at that time, in the living room.

[cami]

Originally posted by caphill


www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/CID_record_3_01.html

You will find 25 exhibits there. From that information it would appear that the knives and icepicks that stabbed Kristen had her blood on them and were carried into the master bedroom and kimberly's room to tranfer her blood as these weapons were being used on Colette and Kimberly.

Your link doesn't work....

[cami]

Originally posted by Bunny2
http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/cid_record_3_05.html

In CID Record 3, the details of where Kristen's blood was found begin on page 5. No entry reflects any of Kristen's blood being found anywhere in the master bedroom, or anywhere else in the house except in her own room and along a baseboard in the bathroom and on the murderer's eyeglasses.

He's referring to page 7 where they list Type A OR Type 0 blood on the following exhibits. No. 10 on that page. And page 8 where her blood transferred from the knife to Kim's bed.

[rashomon]

Originally posted by caphill

Since Kristen was supposedly killed last while she slept in her urine stained panties and pj bottoms and Colette regained consciousness and run into her room to protect her before she was wrapped in a sheet and hauled back to the her bedroom for a final stabbing, it is hard to explain Kristen's blood on the wall and ceiling of the master bedroom and the in the kitchen, dining room, Kim's room and living room .


Caphill, it seems that you want to step into Bertie's shoes by mixing everything up.
Try at least to get the basic facts right, otherwise any discussion is fruitless.
None of Kristen's blood was found on the master bedroom wall and the ceiling. Nor was any of her blood found in the kitchen.
And in all probability, Kristen was killed before Colette.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by cami
He's referring to page 7 where they list Type A OR Type 0 blood on the following exhibits. No. 10 on that page. And page 8 where her blood transferred from the knife to Kim's bed.So, the statement he made that "There was much more of Kristen blood in the master bedroom than Kimberly's" has not been proven to be true, since it wasn't identified as being exclusively Type O, and the statement "Kristen had blood on the walls and the ceiling of the master bed, pillow, hallway floor and door jambs, foot board of bed in master bedroom..." was also not proved, same as the statement "The theory and the explanation of the blood shows Kristen blood everywhere not Kimberly" and the statement "Kristen's blood is the on the ceiling near the light fixture in the master bedroom..."

I don't know why Mac's supporter seems to feel that the phrase "Type A OR Type O" means Type O, but maybe it's just because he ran out of other false things to post.

I also saw Kristen's blood being listed as being on the north pillow and on the cover of the bed in Kim's room, which I'd forgotten all about, and which of course shows that Mac definitely had brutalized Kristen before coming in to smash Kim again and stab her.

[rashomon]

There very little of Colette's blood in Kristen's room. There was a spot on the wall, on the bedspread, on the sheet and plastic sheet near the top of the bed. Kristen had blood on the walls and the ceiling of the master bed, pillow, hallway floor and door jambs, foot board of bed in master bedroom as well as foot board in Kimberly room.

Totally wrong. Caphill, I find it fascinating that you have the nerve to write such utter nonsense. Are you trying to make fun of the posters here? Or have you had one too many? :D

[Spamela]

In reading the list of blood locations, it mentions a Midnight Sun shampoo box. I did a search and found this site:

http://pages.tias.com/3943/InventoryPage/1202275/1.html

It is a 1970 add for Midnight Sun braids, with the following text:
Come to the land where braids began. 2 midnight sun braids for $1.00 - Yonkers, N. Y. Each braid is 21" of real Dynel fiber, strung with a little invisible wire.

The picture has the braids used in groovy hair styles.

[gmetzerious]

You might want to revisit http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/cid_record_3_05.html
capy

[cami]

Originally posted by Bunny2
So, the statement he made that "There was much more of Kristen blood in the master bedroom than Kimberly's" has not been proven to be true, since it wasn't identified as being exclusively Type O, and the statement "Kristen had blood on the walls and the ceiling of the master bed, pillow, hallway floor and door jambs, foot board of bed in master bedroom..." was also not proved, same as the statement "The theory and the explanation of the blood shows Kristen blood everywhere not Kimberly" and the statement "Kristen's blood is the on the ceiling near the light fixture in the master bedroom..."

I don't know why Mac's supporter seems to feel that the phrase "Type A OR Type O" means Type O, but maybe it's just because he ran out of other false things to post.

I also saw Kristen's blood being listed as being on the north pillow and on the cover of the bed in Kim's room, which I'd forgotten all about, and which of course shows that Mac definitely had brutalized Kristen before coming in to smash Kim again and stab her.

Yes, he's reading in that report what he wants to read. Definitely to him it was Kris's blood all over that apt and not Kim's...sort of like Mac's proclaiming that the Type 0 crust on Colette's hands is Greg Mitchell's blood and not Kris's....

[Spamela]

In reading the list of blood locations, it mentions a Midnight Sun shampoo box. I did a search and found this site:

http://pages.tias.com/3943/InventoryPage/1202275/1.html

Scroll down about 3/4 of the way.

It is a 1970 add for Midnight Sun braids, with the following text:
Come to the land where braids began. 2 midnight sun braids for $1.00 - Yonkers, N. Y. Each braid is 21" of real Dynel fiber, strung with a little invisible wire.

The picture has the braids used in groovy hair styles.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by Spamela
In reading the list of blood locations, it mentions a Midnight Sun shampoo box. I did a search and found this site:

http://pages.tias.com/3943/InventoryPage/1202275/1.html

Scroll down about 3/4 of the way.

It is a 1970 add for Midnight Sun braids, with the following text:
Come to the land where braids began. 2 midnight sun braids for $1.00 - Yonkers, N. Y. Each braid is 21" of real Dynel fiber, strung with a little invisible wire.

The picture has the braids used in groovy hair styles.Spammy, great find!! I'd say it's the same company making both the braids and the shampoo, wouldn't you...? I'll bet CM would like to see this also, and I don't think she reads this board, so I'll send it to her after this post. How cool, how b*tchin', how neato and keeno that you found this. I'm totally jazzed.

[caphill]

Originally posted by gmetzerious
You might want to revisit http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/cid_record_3_05.html
capy


I see you have the same problem in posting the link as I did. when the full link is typed in the reply and submitted to the message board only a portion of the link will post.

[Spamela]

Spammy, great find!! I'd say it's the same company making both the braids and the shampoo, wouldn't you...? I'll bet CM would like to see this also, and I don't think she reads this board, so I'll send it to her after this post. How cool, how b*tchin', how neato and keeno that you found this. I'm totally jazzed.

I think the box in the picture is the shampoo box, it was some sort of promotion. Nothing like plastic hair, plastic furniture, and plastic clothes!

[gmetzerious]

Doesnt matter if it didnt post.. if you reread it cap you will find that your interpretations are wrong. Kristens blood wasn't found all over the master bedroom


I see you have the same problem in posting the link as I did. when the full link is typed in the reply and submitted to the message board only a portion of the link will post. [/B][/QUOTE]

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by Bunny2
How cool, how b*tchin', how neato and keeno that you found this. I'm totally jazzed.
lmao! like, totally!

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by Spamela
In reading the list of blood locations, it mentions a Midnight Sun shampoo box. I did a search and found this site:

http://pages.tias.com/3943/InventoryPage/1202275/1.html

Scroll down about 3/4 of the way.

It is a 1970 add for Midnight Sun braids, with the following text:
Come to the land where braids began. 2 midnight sun braids for $1.00 - Yonkers, N. Y. Each braid is 21" of real Dynel fiber, strung with a little invisible wire.

The picture has the braids used in groovy hair styles.
interesting that this company also makes fake braids. dynel fiber, not saran (unless dynel is the trademark name, since it's capitalized) but still interesting.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by Spamela
I think the box in the picture is the shampoo boxYes, of course - I was so busy looking at the braids that I missed the box. Duhh.

[audpaud]

Originally posted by barskin&co.


Yeah, Bert is gone...but his other identity is apparently still among us. So we still have more nonsense, lies, lunatic theories, r@cist comments and slander of the victims' family to look forward to. Sigh.


I'm relieved in a way to see Bert Tansill removed from this most excellent forum . . . I understand that I could just ignore inflammatory Posts, but must admit that I would just stare at the inflammatory Kassab-Hate Posts by Bert T. kind of like a bad car wreck.:flamemad: :(

ITA with Kateyes Posts a few pages back that humorous Posts help deal with some of the more ludicrous assertations about this case . . . barskin, spammy, stinkyb and others have sure kept a smile on my face in this regard!

:D

[audpaud]

Originally posted by caphill

There was much more of Kristen blood in the master bedroom than Kimberly's . . . .

. . . Kristen had blood on the walls and the ceiling of the master bed, pillow, hallway floor and door jambs, foot board of bed in master bedroom as well as foot board in Kimberly room . . .

. . . This is what is shocking to read. The theory and the explanation of the blood shows Kristen blood everywhere not Kimberly. Kristen's blood is the on the ceiling near the light fixture in the master bedroom not Kimberly's as has been reported over and over again on this message board . . . .


I submit that "what is shocking to read" is your blatant refusal to own up to the overwhelming evidence against Jeffrey MacDonald (very much like The Murderer Himself,) and your blatant Posting of misinformation, false information and in the case of "there was much more of Kristen's blood in the master bedroom than Kimberley's" outright LIES caphill.:no:

Aren't you counting Poor Kimmies' BRAIN SERUM as blood evidence, or what?

I am still interested in exploring what motivates you to seemingly support a Sociopathic Slaughterer to defy all reason & logic . . . is it because you are anonymous on a message board? Would you be this blatant in your adoration of MacMonster if say, we all were in person at a Parole Hearing? Surely, you wouldn't be able to show your face in public, could you? OR would you be able to sit at his feet and stare up at him for a photo shoot?:confused:

Curious.

[caphill]

Read of Colonel Rock's statement regarding the CID investigation.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/cid_rock_1971-01-05_p1.html

Read the CID report #3 of the blood that was found throughout the house of the victims. read item 10 that show the locations of blood of A-Colette and O- Kristens in the master bedroom and other areas of the house. It you read all 25 pages you will see that are a number of blood traces of all three victims and mixatures of all victims in different areas of all three bedrooms. It is interesting to the see the diagram Murtagh put together of the master bedroom and show how fails to show the jury any mixatures or blood spots that contain Kristen's blood in the masterbed. It appears Murtagh cherry picked the blood evidence from the CID report that he wanted the jury to know about.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/cid_record_3_07.html

You can call me a liar all day long but I didn't write the CID reports of where blood was found. I didn' t make the many contradictory reports from what the CID reported and from what Murtagh presented to the courts.

http://karisable.com/macdonald.htm

Another site of info. Thanks Christina for an amazing compilation
of years of research of available documentation.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by caphill
Read the CID report #3 of the blood that was found throughout the house of the victims. read item 10 that show the locations of blood of A-Colette and O- Kristens in the master bedroom and other areas of the house...You can call me a liar all day long but I didn't write the CID reports of where blood was found.Cappy, why are you deliberately lying about this? Do you think no one else can read?

I quote from item 10: "Blood stains type A (Colette MacDonald) or type O (Kristen MacDonald) were located on the following exhibits..."

The word "or" is even underlined in the report, emphasizing that no specific determination could be made. So why do you keep insisting that this report claims that Type O was definitely found in those areas, when that's not what it says at all?

MacDonald murdered little 2-year-old Kristen in her bed, and there's no evidence that she ever left the bed at all.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com

http://themacdonaldcase.com

[Bunny2]

Spurs, just FYI, thought I'd let you know that Christina did find the "Motion to Expand the Record" and the Statement of Itemized Material Evidence and she's uploaded those, so you don't have to worry about them being "missing" as described in my last post to you.

[caphill]

From the autopsy


http://karisable.com/mac8.htm

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by caphill
From the autopsyNoguchi had nothing at all to do with any of the autopsies, Cappy. Have you read the actual case records yet?

Gammel performed the autopsy on Colette. Hancock performed the autopies on Kimberly and Kristen.

Thanks for pointing to Noguchi anyway, though, since it's amusing to see how much he got wrong.

For the real facts, I'd suggest taking a look at the following:

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com

http://www.themacdonaldcase.com

Mac murdered Colette, Kimberly and Kristen and will most likely remain in prison for the rest of his miserable life. Justice prevails!

[Bunny2]

A little thing that never hit me until I read Murtagh talking about it in one of the recently-filed government appendices (Tab 1, part 2, I think), re: that small side table near the kitchen, and the fact that Colette's purse wasn't touched.

"...that area is about as undisturbed an area of the crime scene as you could possibly find. There were Valentine cards, although none from Doctor MacDonald to his wife, in that area and her purse was there. In other words, it was clear that Mrs. MacDonald had come home that evening, put her purse down, taken her hair brush out and left it there. There was no evidence that connected that in any way to having been disturbed or rifled or the contents dumped out at any time."

Aside from other good points, I wonder if this demonstrates one of those instances in which Mac wove a bit of truth into his stories. Remember somewhere near the end of Fatal Vision, Mac is talking about Colette coming home that night from class, and that she said something about her hair not looking good, that it was all wet from the rain? I can almost see her doing just as Murtagh talks about, setting her purse down and getting out the brush to try to fix her hair a little...

Mac doesn't tell the truth too often, but he was smart enough to weave a little of it into his stories to try to make them more believable, and maybe this was one of those times.

Also, neither Lucia nor any other defense team member has ever seen fit to answer the question of whether those saran fibers were the last to be put in the brush or whether they were found under other hairs. Maybe they don't know, or maybe they're just not saying.

[caphill]

Originally posted by Bunny2


snipped

Also, neither Lucia nor any other defense team member has ever seen fit to answer the question of whether those saran fibers were the last to be put in the brush or whether they were found under other hairs. Maybe they don't know, or maybe they're just not saying.

Tunnel vision keeping one from seeing the whole picture here.

Have you forgotten that while MacDonald was in the hospital the CID and the CID lab people were having their way with the house and the evidence collection. The defense has fought for years to have a look at the evidence that was collected.

It was 15 years after the CID collected the hair brush that the defense even knew there were saran hair strands found at all much less what layer they were found in the brush.

The evidence of these saran strands were hidden from the defense and that is a part of what the fuss is all about. Now you want to hold Lucia or the defense team responsible for not answering questions about the evidence that was collected by the CID. Ask the CID and their lab people those questions.

Oops, I forgot the CID and the lab people who actually handled those hair brushes and hair and saran strands didn't tell anything at all about finding these 22 and 24 inch strands. To have written a report about these unusually long strands would have required them to find a source for them. There was no dolls in the house that had hair 2 ft long. There was a report within a couple days that a possibly suspect was seen in the area that was wearing a long blond wig . To introduce the fact these long strands were found at the crime scene would have been devastating unless there was a known source in the house for these saran strands.

These 22and 24 inch strands didn't just get misplaced in the evidence collection. The labeling was designed to keep them hidden as being of any importance to the evidence collected.

Again I remind you the defense and Lucia never had access or even knew of these hairs in the hairbrush for 15 years and had to get a court order through the FOIA to get the lab notes to even find them. Helena Stoeckley was dead and buried long before it was known that these strands existed. I believe it was Helena that mentioned she had concerns about her wig getting wet.

[caphill]

Originally posted by caphill
Read of Colonel Rock's statement regarding the CID investigation.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/cid_rock_1971-01-05_p1.html

snipped

This is a very informative read from the questions and answers put to Colonel Rock regarding the investigation of the CID. It puts to rest a number of myths and misinformation regarding the early days of the investigation that was done in 1970.

He does confirm that wax dripping found around the house and the bedrooms of the children did not match the candles that were known to be in the house.

The big issue was the over turned table in the living room. CID and the prosecution were well aware that Colonel Rock himself had debunked the statements of the CID agents that the table was top heavy and would not land on its side and was proof that MacDonald staged the scene in the living room.

Q: Did CID agents perform a ludicrous experiment in tipping over the coffe table in the MacDonald living room to demostrate that the living room had been staged?

Colonel Rock's answer " I would not desribe the CID agents experiment ludicrous, however, I did not feel it was conducted in a reasonably scientific manner. As a result, I took the opportunity to visit the remises with the living room furniture placed as nearly as possible as the way it was on night of 16-7 Feb. When I knocked the table over it landed on its side and not on its top as the CID agents testified."

Another interesting piece of info was the question regarding the blood and unidentified fingerprints on the jewelry box. The jewelry box that had two rings had been stolen.

Q Did the army, only after proddng by the defense, admit that blood and unidentified fingerprints were in Mrs. MacDonald's jewelry box.

Colonel Rock "I don't recall prodding by the defense. I independently arrived at certain conclusion reference a jewelry box based on my detailed analysis of the CID report."

That puts to rest the misinformation I have seen on this message board about the blood and fingerprints on the jewelry box from the first days of the investigation. It also puts to rest the misformation about the table in the living room and the wax dripping found in the house that were not from the candles owned by Colette.

Anyone with a open thinkng mind would know that the explanation of the candle wax and the burnt match found in the children's room were from the children playing with matches and their birthday candles is absurb.

What kind of mother was the CID implying Colette to be to allow a 21/2 yr old and 5 yr old to play with candles and matches in their bedrooms. What kind of excuse can be found for a piece of evidence in the lab that had a burn spot and the lab dismisses it as it being likely burned by the lab tech who was doing the analysis. What sensible reason would a lab tech have to put a burn spot on a critical piece of evidence from a crime scene. A crime scene where none of the people who lived there smoked.

Whatever evidence of intruders that couldn't be hidden was explained away by things that challenge common sense.

[byn63]

Originally posted by caphill
He does confirm that wax dripping found around the house and the bedrooms of the children did not match the candles that were known to be in the house.

Are you saying it is common sense that people retain the stubs of candles even after they can no longer be burned? The three wax deposits found in the house were:

1) Chemically different from each other thereby, impossible that they came from the same source. PERIOD.

2) The wax found in Kimmie's room was found to be similar to birthday candle wax.

3) The wax found on the under side of the coffee table was:
..........(a) old, and brittle
..........(b) filled with household debris

The big issue was the over turned table in the living room. CID and the prosecution were well aware that Colonel Rock himself had debunked the statements of the CID agents that the table was top heavy and would not land on its side and was proof that MacDonald staged the scene in the living room.

Col. Rock did not debunk the coffee table business. He believed that he did, no doubt, but he didn't. Why? Simple, the furniture in the room, specifically a chair was not in the same location in the living room. Therefore, the location the chair was in blocked the coffee table and kept it from turning all the way over. The personnel that accompanied Col. Rock were not allowed to tell him that the furniture was in the wrong position, or make any corrections to his attempts. Col. Rock was not an investigator or a lawyer or a judge - he was an Army Infantry Officer. Plus, if you read the Article 32 transcripts you will see several times where at least some "improper" conclusions or applications of legal principles etc. are not checked by the "legal assistant" provided to Col. Rock. AND, the legal assistant actually had a conflict of interest imo since he brought his wife to see mac and to be treated by him.

Anyone with a open thinkng mind would know that the explanation of the candle wax and the burnt match found in the children's room were from the children playing with matches and their birthday candles is absurb.

Absurb? Setting aside the strange new word you've created let TRY to use logic and common sense, PLEASE. One burned match found in the home, a home that is lived in by a woman who loved to burn candles.

As to birthday candle wax - are you trying to say it is common sense that "intruders" carried a birthday candle? Not to mention that since there was no trail of wax drippings, how did this candle carrying "intruder" traverse the house without leaving a trail?

What kind of mother was the CID implying Colette to be to allow a 21/2 yr old and 5 yr old to play with candles and matches in their bedrooms.

The whole fun of doing naughty things is NOT getting permission from your mother or father. It is possible that Kimmie did something naughty - she was a normal, healthy, red-blooded American girl - whose father brutally and savagely slaughtered her.

Whatever evidence of intruders that couldn't be hidden was explained away by things that challenge common sense.

There was no evidence "hidden" and Col. Rock showed far less common sense than most people. For example, the big mystery saran fibers found in Colette's brush. Col. Rock would like us to believe it makes more sense that a murderous drugged out hippy stopped in the middle of the blood bath to brush the THREE wigs she is wearing with a hairbrush she just happens to find in the house.

That is NOT common sense that is lunacy to the extreme. The three saran fibers DO NOT MATCH in chemical composition therefore, they come from 3 different sources. That is plain and simple fact and it really is time you stop taking bits and pieces of data out of context and combining them to make these ludicrous claims and outright lies. In other words, stop acting like a macalite.

Why can't you use your energies to do something for the VICTIMS in this case? You seem to have forgotten that the VICTIMS were/are Colette, Kimberly, Kristen, and unborn son.

Why must you idolize the narcissistic, sociopathic, psychotic family slaughterer and denigrate his victims and their memories?

[cami]

You can clearly see investigators smoking inside the residence, one smoking a pipe. It's not such a great leap to believe one of them dropped a match in Kristen's room.

You don't believe that Colette threw out the candles once they had been burned down? Why is that some of the candle wax matches drippings on a wine bottle? Why is it that some of the wax was old and contained household debris?

Why is there no fresh candlewax in the area that MacDonald claims Helena stood carrying the candle and chanting "acid is groovy" Oh right he changes his mind then, he claims he only saw a "light" and Helena claims her candle dripped blood, not wax.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by caphill
Q Did the army, only after proddng by the defense, admit that blood and unidentified fingerprints were in Mrs. MacDonald's jewelry box.

Colonel Rock "I don't recall prodding by the defense. I independently arrived at certain conclusion reference a jewelry box based on my detailed analysis of the CID report."

That puts to rest the misinformation I have seen on this message board about the blood and fingerprints on the jewelry box from the first days of the investigation.Chamberlain examined the box on the day of the murders and stains on it proved not to be blood. Also, nothing was stolen from the apartment and Mac agreed with that. Mac wouldn't steal from himself, would he? Of course not. He only made that up, to try to fool investigators into thinking there were "intruders." Just another of his many, many lies.

http://www.themacdonaldcase.com/html/mmt.html

[Bunny2]

I see that the murderer and his wife still have not updated his website, as it still claims that "A brown hair, has found clutched in Colette's hand. Greg Mitchell had brown hair (Jeffrey's was blonde). Despite the discrepancy in color, the CID lab tried to source the hair to Jeffrey anyway, but failed." Just more proof that Mac lies and continues to lie, even in the face of the DNA results released a month ago which proved this hair to be Mac's very own, and which also proved that neither Mitchell's nor Stoeckley's DNA was found in any exhibit.

I guess Mac is never going to realize that his lies just help turn people against him and help to keep him where he is. Even as recently as a year or two ago, the boards were filled with supporters; but since the advent of Christina's great site filled with the factual case records, now there seem to be none at all except for Cappy and his aliases, Mac's lawyers (supposedly), and Char and Kathryn. How great for us, and how wonderful for the memories of Colette, Kim and Kristen, that this narcissistic, psychopathic triple murderer just keeps right on burying himself ever deeper with every passing day.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by caphill
Anyone with a open thinkng mind would know that the explanation of the candle wax and the burnt match found in the children's room were from the children playing with matches and their birthday candles is absurb.Actually, anyone with an open thinking mind would know that considering all those countless pieces of evidence that pointed directly and only to Mac as the murderer (including his own demonstrations of the consciousness of his guilt) and the negative evidence (and DNA results) which eliminated any idea of "intruders," it makes no sense for Mac or his supporter to continue to lie about Stoeckley or Mitchell.

Stoeckley was never in the apartment at all, of course, but even if she had been, she couldn't have been holding a candle which dripped blood without getting any of that blood (or her fingerprints) on the hobby horse and elsewhere in Kristen's room, not to mention in the living room, kitchen (where she claims they entered), dining room, the other bedrooms, the hallway, on the hairbrush she used to brush the different wigs she was wearing, etc. Not a speck of candle-blood found anywhere, Cappy. Are you surprised? :)

[audpaud]

Originally posted by caphill . . .
You can call me a liar all day long . . . .

I wouldn't necessarily call you a "liar" . . . not real into name-calling. I just basically find it fascinating how you keep coming up with distorted bits 'n pieces from here 'n there to defend this piece of human garbage--macdonald!:confused: :(

Do you think at some point you will be able to discuss what motivates you?

[spurs01]

Originally posted by Bunny2
Spurs, just FYI, thought I'd let you know that Christina did find the "Motion to Expand the Record" and the Statement of Itemized Material Evidence and she's uploaded those, so you don't have to worry about them being "missing" as described in my last post to you.

Thanks for letting me know! Loads of new info there. Eventually, I hope to sort through it. Thanks again!

[rashomon]

Originally posted by caphill
[B]
Tunnel vision keeping one from seeing the whole picture here.


Tunnel vision: exactly. Good insight into yourself. For have you forgotten that the 24-inch and the 24-inch saran fibers came from different sources? What's your scenario? Did Helena bring more than one wig to 544 Castle Drive? Please elaborate.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by ArthurThorp
It looks to me as though there were no MacDonald pajama fibers on the murder weapon. That's a typical Murtagh, Blackburn and Dupree con trick.I do believe that the two pajama fibers on the club were shown in CID handwritten lab notes, and that this was also confirmed during a re-analysis in 1979, and that the defense admitted that these fibers were on the club in their December 2005 motion, and that you knew all of this before you posted.

[caphill]

Originally posted by rashomon


Tunnel vision: exactly. Good insight into yourself. For have you forgotten that the 24-inch and the 24-inch saran fibers came from different sources? What's your scenario? Did Helena bring more than one wig to 544 Castle Drive? Please elaborate.


Appendix Three Part 1 on Christina's new uploads says it all about the saran wigs and wig strands.

I suggest reading the 100 pages that show FBI Michael Malone was a liar in his affidavitis converning saran wigs . Pages 53 and beyond has some expert comments on saran wigs. I will leave it to the experts and the companies that manufactured saran strands to elaborate.

Again suggested reading for the information that has now been filed with the court that settles the questions of saran fiber used for human wigs in the 1960's and 70's. It clearly shows Malone true colors and the fact he has earned his reputation as a dishonest witness for the government.

[rashomon]

Originally posted by caphill



Appendix Three Part 1 on Christina's new uploads says it all about the saran wigs and wig strands.

I suggest reading the 100 pages that show FBI Michael Malone was a liar in his affidavitis converning saran wigs . Pages 53 and beyond has some expert comments on saran wigs. I will leave it to the experts and the companies that manufactured saran strands to elaborate.

Again suggested reading for the information that has now been filed with the court that settles the questions of saran fiber used for human wigs in the 1960's and 70's. It clearly shows Malone true colors and the fact he has earned his reputation as a dishonest witness for the government.

Don't forget that fiber expert Robert Webb agreed with Malone too.
But of course Bartoli (who is no professional fiber expert at all, even if she likes to call herself 'researcher') can't allow herself to admit that the two saran fibers came from different sources because this would involve an idiotic scenario in which Helena had brought more than one wig.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by caphill
I suggest reading the 100 pages that show FBI Michael Malone was a liar in his affidavitis converning saran wigs .You're behind the times, Cappy. I'd suggest that you begin to read the court records which show that the issue you refer to is res judica, a long time ago (1998), and the court found that no fraud was committed on the court by Malone or anyone else.

[caphill]

Originally posted by rashomon


Don't forget that fiber expert Robert Webb agreed with Malone too.
But of course Bartoli (who is no professional fiber expert at all, even if she likes to call herself 'researcher') can't allow herself to admit that the two saran fibers came from different sources because this would involve an idiotic scenario in which Helena had brought more than one wig.


It is obvious you did not read or understand the 100 papes of appendix 3 part 1 or part 2 that was filed with the court on March 23, 2006. There are a number of fiber experts and manufacturers sited in the appendix 3 that have countered Malone affadavits that saran was never used in human wigs.

If Robert Webb agreed with Malone that means he didn't do his homework because Malone was just plain wrong and filed a false affidavit with the applellate courts and the courts used his false affidavit as a part of their denialof Dr. MacDonald a retrial.

If you had read the entire 100 pages of appendix 3 you would see where Murtagh himself had written that if the 22 and 24 inch blond strands had come from a human wig that could not be matched with any known wig in the household it would be exculpatory and a collaboration that Stoeckley had been the house. Of course he so boldly made this statement because he thought that the government had gotten away with Malone's "expert" affidavit that saran was not used for human wigs. The filing of the 100 pages of Appendix 3 supplies the District Court the listing of numerous companies that manufactured saran and wigs companys that made and sold wigs that were made with saran. This filing, for the first time, puts the research and proof of the saran being used for human wigs before the Court. It is proof that Malone made false reports about the saran strands found in the hairbrush at the crime scene.

Malone has a proven history of false testimony in other trials. His credibility is already at zero and now this proof that he made a false affidavit in the MacDonald case regarding the saran strands and the "mistake of the 21/2 inch pubic being MacDonald's is another black eye for the FBI.

[caphill]

Originally posted by Bunny2
You're behind the times, Cappy. I'd suggest that you begin to read the court records which show that the issue you refer to is res judica, a long time ago (1998), and the court found that no fraud was committed on the court by Malone or anyone else.

I believe if you had read what you were helping Christina upload with new appendix filing with the Court on March 23, 2006 you would understand this is not res judica.

This is already a victory for the MacDonald team that they for the first time have been allowed to put before the court the rebuttal evidence to Malone original affidavit. When Malone made his false affidavit, Judge Dupree was still sitting on the District Court and he accepted Malone's statement as the gossip and MaDonald appeal for relief was denied.

What is you understanding of what or why there are all these appendix filed on March 23, 2006 for the Court's review? Are you stuck on only the info put out there by the CID from the 1970 investigation, the FBI's reinvestigation as the only thing the appellate courts will ever look at? We all know what was presented at the trial. What we are seeing now is what was not presented at the trail and that is the basis of Dr. MacDonald appeal and Motions for the verdict to be vacated or a retrial.

[caphill]

Originally posted by ArthurThorp
There is some interesting information on the latest April uploads on Christina’s website with regard to the fibers on the wooden club murder weapon involved in the MacDonald murder.

snipped:

The FBI found no fibers matching Jeff MacDonald’s pajama top. The defense was not aware of this FBI report at the time of trial, and had no way to dispute or call into question the inaccurate testimony regarding the fibers found on the murder weapon outside the MacDonald home.”

There is also issue of a number of fibers that had Murtagh running around chasing his tail. There was other blue fibers that did not match the pjs as well as pink fibers, green and white wool fibers that did match any known source. Murtagh was personally back at the house right before the trial trying to find something to match these foreign fibers. He had fibers that he was specifically asking the lab to try to match to known sources of the rug or other things that were of concern to him. These were never matched and to my knowledge these were never made known to the jury.

What is now known that was not presented at the trial is numerous pieces of trace evidence of foreign fibers, hair, unmatched fingerprints, long blond wig strands, foreign wax drippings, burnt matches.

I would like to see the O blood crusts that was found in Colette hand, on the glasses and the spots in the master bed submitted for DNA analysis. I would also like to see the release of all the unmatched finger and palm prints to the defense for another analysis. There has been considerable advancements made in the ability to match partial fingerprints and palm prints that was not possible in 1970.

[stinkerbelle]

goodness, i think little bo peep has lost her sheep.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle
goodness, i think little bo peep has lost her sheep. LOL! Right, Stinker! Personally, I think that Humpty character had something to do with that whole thing. There's something suspicious about him, and I don't think he was quite the good egg others testified to. I mean, really, what are the chances that she loses the sheep and coincidentally this egg falls off the wall, and no one's around to witness anything either time? I think ol' Humpty was in it up to his albumen, planned to kidnap the sheep and mount a campaign to get people to eat more mutton instead of his chicken friends and their offspring, but that his conscience later got the best of him. In short, I think the egg was a suicide.

Makes a whole lot more sense than Mac's stories, doesn't it? :)

[Bunny2]

Just a little thing I felt like bringing up, re: Cathy Perry...

In an apparent attempt to make something ominous out of nothing, Beasley (and maybe Gunderson, I forget) referred to Perry's calendar, claiming that she'd circled February 17 (which IMO was designed to try and back up Stoeckley's story that Perry was involved).

Now that Perry's calendar -- all 12 months of it -- is online at Christina's site, it's interesting that first of all it's not Feb. 17 which is circled but February 16 (this reminds me of when Gunderson got the date of the murders wrong on at least two occasions).

More interesting to me, however, is that if you look at Perry's calendar for Feb. 16, you can see she's written the word START there. It only takes a quick glance down the months to see that she's got this same designation in many places: a circle with the word START written in it. In most cases it seems to appear roughly 25-28 days apart, and in several places, she's written notations like "pill" and "last pill."

What a surprise that Beasley would, apparently deliberately, not mention this information. I couldn't be more shocked.

What do you think, ladies? Was Feb. 16 circled because she planned to attend a mass-murder party that night, or were these circles and START written because, more likely, that was her cycle for her birth-control pills?

[Bunny2]

Two of my favorite excerpts from the government's motion to strike exhibits:

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/downloads/gov_2006-03-30_strike-exhibits.pdf

p. 6: Current defense counsel have neither included Lane's July 15, 1988, delcaration in any of their voluminous filings, nor informed the Court of its existence.

p. 10: In essence, MacDonald has virtually "recycled" the facts contained in the 1988 Lane declaration by redrafting the document as an affidavit, making additional cosmetic changes, including irrelevant information about puppy dogs, and then having it re-executed with a 2005 date to make it appear that this information is truly newly-discovered evidence. And, as a consequence, he has failed to disclose to this Court the fact that his prior attorney, Mr. Wade Smith, submitted virtually the same information to this Court on MacDonald's behalf as part of his effort to obtain relief in 1990.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by rashomon
But of course Bartoli (who is no professional fiber expert at all, even if she likes to call herself 'researcher') can't allow herself to admit that the two saran fibers came from different sources because this would involve an idiotic scenario in which Helena had brought more than one wig.Or more than one dust mop, as the case may be. LOL!!

Poor Mac. Too bad he couldn't get those synthetic fibers DNA tested like his supporter wanted him to, isn't it. I have a feeling it was probably Martha who was actually wearing the dust mop, but according to Mac's supporter, only DNA testing would prove it for sure.

Notice how good I was in not mentioning Albie's name here. :)

:biggrin:

[Bunny2]

Every time I read one of the defense's things, it just surprises me all over again that they embarrass themselves with this stuff. Aside from other things, I guess they forgot that unsourced items are so common to every household that they're considered to be forensically insignificant and often aren't even reported at all, and I guess they forgot that the "unsourced items" argument was already made to the jury long ago, and failed miserably. Their whole argument pretty much comes down to nothing at all, just Britt's word against Blackburn's, and the pathetic attempts to revive old issues that have already been decided. I mean, I keep searching but I can't see a single thing, not one, that would even begin to cast any doubt on Mac's guilt. Not even close. Oh, well, that's okay...I guess I should be glad that they're doing it, since with every word they write, it just makes Mac look worse and worse. JMPO.

[caphill]

Originally posted by Bunny2
Every time I read one of the defense's things, it just surprises me all over again that they embarrass themselves with this stuff. Aside from other things, I guess they forgot that unsourced items are so common to every household that they're considered to be forensically insignificant and often aren't even reported at all, and I guess they forgot that the "unsourced items" argument was already made to the jury long ago, and failed miserably. Their whole argument pretty much comes down to nothing at all, just Britt's word against Blackburn's, and the pathetic attempts to revive old issues that have already been decided. I mean, I keep searching but I can't see a single thing, not one, that would even begin to cast any doubt on Mac's guilt. Not even close. Oh, well, that's okay...I guess I should be glad that they're doing it, since with every word they write, it just makes Mac look worse and worse. JMPO.

Wonder why the CID and lab found hair and fibers from family members so forensically significant an then made efforts to hid the foreign fibers and 22- 24 inch saran strands that they determined to forensically insignficant. It was not the lab or the CID's legal right to make that determination. Put all on the table and let the jury decide what was signficate to them.

The arguement to the jury was they should find MacDonald guilty because of the lack of any trace evidence to indicate anyone other than MacDonald was in that house that night. You and the choir sing to each other on this message board it was the negative evidence that anyone other than Dr. MacDonald was in the house that night t.hat proves his guilt

[Bunny2]

As so elequently noted by the government: "Jeffrey MacDonald was not convicted because he failed to explain the evidence. He was convicted because the physical evidence proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he was the only possible criminal agent, and because the physical evidence when coupled with his conflicting account of intruders and his attempts to disassociate himself from the instrumentalities and other trace evidence of the crime, was sufficient as a matter of law to sustain the jury's verdict."

The courts found no improprieties or wrongdoing on the part of any lawyer or judge in this case, that no evidence was wrongly suppressed, and affirmed that MacDonald was responsible for the murders of Colette, Kimberly and Kristen.

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by Bunny2


What do you think, ladies? Was Feb. 16 circled because she planned to attend a mass-murder party that night, or were these circles and START written because, more likely, that was her cycle for her birth-control pills?

first of all, thanks for the info on why the calendar was posted. i was looking at it, scrolling thru each month, wondering what the heck it had to do with anything lol!

but to answer your question, i agree; it was either to keep track of when she started a new pack of pills or to keep track of when her period started. although a HUGE PITA, nothing sinister IMO :)

[stinkerbelle]

tonite this choir member (second soprano btw :D ) is in eagles mode...specifically "hotel california" which actually reminds me of FV and McGinnis hearing "heartache tonight" and that other song....something psycho killer? anyway, what an odd coincidence!

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by Bunny2


Poor Mac. Too bad he couldn't get those synthetic fibers DNA tested like his supporter wanted him to, isn't it.

can someone please tell me how it is one might perform DNA testing on synthetic fibers and just what result one might be looking for? :confused:

i dunno, maybe cousin it from the addams family did it!?!

[stinkerbelle]

when, what to my wondering eyes should appear....

(no, silly rabbit, i'm not talking about santa...although...come to think of it....i bet those fibers making up his beard are pretty long. we "ought to" get them DNA tested!)

miss bunny, i do declare, but i think we are making some progress here. i think the point has finally been gotten across that you and christina are two separate individuals!:eek:

p.s. are you coming to our next tea club meeting? (were you even a part of that? lol)

[caphill]

Originally posted by byn63


There was no evidence "hidden" and Col. Rock showed far less common sense than most people. For example, the big mystery saran fibers found in Colette's brush. Col. Rock would like us to believe it makes more sense that a murderous drugged out hippy stopped in the middle of the blood bath to brush the THREE wigs she is wearing with a hairbrush she just happens to find in the house.

That is NOT common sense that is lunacy to the extreme. The three saran fibers DO NOT MATCH in chemical composition therefore, they come from 3 different sources. That is plain and simple fact and it really is time you stop taking bits and pieces of data out of context and combining them to make these ludicrous claims and outright lies. In other words, stop acting like a macalite.

Why can't you use your energies to do something for the VICTIMS in this case? You seem to have forgotten that the VICTIMS were/are Colette, Kimberly, Kristen, and unborn son.

Why must you idolize the narcissistic, sociopathic, psychotic family slaughterer and denigrate his victims and their memories?



Colonel Rock, who was the ranking officer in the 1970 Article 32 hearing made no statements about the saran 22 and 24 inch wig strands found at the crime scene. He , like the defense team , did not know of these synthetic wig strands. Remember they were not disclosed at any time during the Article 32 or the trial in 1979.

There is not much I can do for the victims of this horrible slaughter. They have been dead for over 36 years. Your totally unwarranted emotional statements that I denigrate the victims is an example of an obsessive denial and misconstruing of everything I have posted. The personal attacks on me, the name calling is also unwarranted . I am only guilty of sometimes having typos that generate long juvenile or senile sounding posts.

Name calling, insults and bullying sarcasm is typical when there is nothing left to say of any value. Well I guess some have a menality of discussing Little Bo Peep when there is no other response or intelligent debate to offer.

[audpaud]

Originally posted by caphill
. . . You and the choir sing to each other on this message board . . .

Does this mean you are ready to discuss the motivation for your blind devotion to the Family Killer?:confused: I think this statement of yours reflects one of my earlier theories:

Do you see yourself as some kind of lone crusader? A "SOLOIST" FOR MACDONALD~so to speak?

Do you see yourself as "MARCHING TO THE BEAT OF YOUR VERY OWN MACDONALD DRUMMER?"

I'm very concerned that the DNA news (Poor Colette clutching what Jeffrey promised to be the "hair of the killer") turning out to be that very thing: HIS!

To see you Posting in this "grasping at straws" style ie: "You and the choir sing to each other on this message board . . . " is actually quite painful for many us.:(

I realize your Posts could be ignored, but I really would like to help you . . . Please! Can we discuss what motivates your blind devotion to MacMonster?:shrug:

[byn63]

Originally posted by caphill


There is not much I can do for the victims of this horrible slaughter. They have been dead for over 36 years. Your totally unwarranted emotional statements that I denigrate the victims is an example of an obsessive denial and misconstruing of everything I have posted. The personal attacks on me, the name calling is also unwarranted . I am only guilty of sometimes having typos that generate long juvenile or senile sounding posts.



For Colette, Kimberly, and Kristen you could do many things to honor their memories. For example, the memorial scholarship fund can always use donations. You could refrain from calling their murder "Dr." since that is an honorific to which he is no longer entitled. You could stop throwing Col. Rock's Article 32 lunacy out as "final proof" of some sort, when it has long since been proven/shown:

1. Col. Rock was not a lawyer or a Judge, he was an infantry officer with no legal background.

2. Col. Rock's table experiment was flawed by the fact that he did not determine if the furniture in the room was in the same places as the night of the murders. AND, the requirement/order given to the Jr. Grade CID investigators that they were NOT to tell him.

3. Posey the "big surprise witness" from the Article 32 confessed to having made up a considerable amount of his testimony at that hearing and HAVING RECEIVED PAYMENT from mac or his attorney to leave town after testifying.

4. Inmate's own stories show consciousness of his guilt by attempting to disassociate himself with the weapons, changing his story to attempt to explain away evidence, etc.

There was a CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT of evidence that had yet to be developed at the time the Article 32 was convened. So, wouldn't it be more sensible to study the evidence as presented at Grand Jury or Trial or even the numerous APPEALS?

[byn63]

Originally posted by Bunny2
In an apparent attempt to make something ominous out of nothing, Beasley (and maybe Gunderson, I forget) referred to Perry's calendar, claiming that she'd circled February 17 (which IMO was designed to try and back up Stoeckley's story that Perry was involved).

Now that Perry's calendar -- all 12 months of it -- is online at Christina's site, it's interesting that first of all it's not Feb. 17 which is circled but February 16 (this reminds me of when Gunderson got the date of the murders wrong on at least two occasions).

More interesting to me, however, is that if you look at Perry's calendar for Feb. 16, you can see she's written the word START there. It only takes a quick glance down the months to see that she's got this same designation in many places: a circle with the word START written in it. In most cases it seems to appear roughly 25-28 days apart, and in several places, she's written notations like "pill" and "last pill."

What do you think, ladies? Was Feb. 16 circled because she planned to attend a mass-murder party that night, or were these circles and START written because, more likely, that was her cycle for her birth-control pills?

Now bunny - there you go using LOGIC! LOL!

Of course a man would see something sinister in a circle and start notation on a calendar. Naturally, if it was a man's calendar, I might be questioning the notation myself. However, as probably a majority of females make similar notations every month - we wouldn't blink twice! I guess maybe we should mention to the guys that almost every Dr. that women visit will ask in some form or another for the date when your last period started.

It was sort of sad to hear that Bo Peep's sheep was lost, but, REALLY sad to hear that Humpty committed suicide because of his involvement in the disappearance!:rose:

[caphill]

Originally posted by byn63
[B]

For Colette, Kimberly, and Kristen you could do many things to honor their memories. For example, the memorial scholarship fund can always use donations.


I didn't know solicitation was allowed on the message board.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by byn63
You could stop throwing Col. Rock's Article 32 lunacy out as "final proof" of some sort, when it has long since been proven/shown:Good post, Byn. And the DOJ, the court and even Bernie Segal all knew that Rock wasn't a judge:

Judge (later Justice) Blackmun summed up the function of an Article 32 proceeding in one sentence: "The proceeding was what its description indicated, namely, an investigation." As the Dept. of Justice noted, "The investigating officer merely recommends whether or not a court-martial should be convened and his recommendation that charges be dismissed for lack of evidence did not constitute a 'trial' which precluded civilian trial of the serviceman."

Per MacDonald's attorney, Bernard Segal, "The point is, [Colonel Rock] is not a judge. He is an investigating officer."

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by audpaud
Does this mean you are ready to discuss the motivation for your blind devotion to the Family Killer?:confused: . . . Please! Can we discuss what motivates your blind devotion to MacMonster?:shrug:Hey, audpaud, I know you've asked this several times and not gotten any answer (none that I recall, anyway). Somehow I don't think you'll ever get a true answer to this, because IMO it pretty much defies explanation unless the person simply has no idea how to evaluate what he's reading, or he's a fraud, posting only to try and irritate others with repetitious, false and misleading information.

Mac's supporter would give her/his eyeteeth to have just ONE single bit of forensic evidence pointing to intruders. Had there been just one fiber matched to a skirt Helena wore, or a hair of Mitchell's found, and nothing else, the supporter would be delirous with joy, claiming that just that one bit of evidence proved beyond question that Mac's stories were true. Never mind that there might be no other corroborating evidence, and that the hair and/or fiber might have gotten there because Mac was dealing drugs to these people (I think it was Beasley who claimed that Stoeckley told him Mac knew Greg Mitchell before the murders...) or in any of a number of other ways. Corroborating evidence would mean nothing to such a supporter.

But in this case there is no such evidence at all, not a single shred of it in all these many years, and on top of that, the evidence that was found (and which has come to light in the years since) was voluminous and overwhelming and pointed directly to Mac, and the recent DNA results hammered that home even more, since no "intruder's" DNA matched any exhibit and the "mystery hair" in Colette's hand turned out to be Mac's very own. And Mac's even demonstrated the consciousness of his guilt in these crimes, many times. Yet all of that is completely ignored by the supporter! The fact that Mac's stories were shown to be false means nothing to such a person; Mac's pajama fibers on a club which was outside by the time Mac woke up mean nothing, the holes in his top and in Colette's chest mean nothing, the obvious staging of the scenes and carrying bodies, etc., mean nothing...it's really hard to believe that anyone looking at all of that evidence and finding absolutely no forensic evidence of "intruders" could still claim (or pretend to) that Mac didn't do it. The supporter won't even admit that if such evidence were ever to turn up, it would only mean that Mac wasn't alone when he murdered his family. That's why I believe that Mac's last few remaining supporters either haven't lstudied the evidence or they don't understand what they're seeing, or they're simply bent on supporting Mac no matter what, or they're frauds, pure and simple. JMPO, of course.

[audpaud]

Originally posted by Bunny2
...it's really hard to believe that anyone looking at all of that evidence and finding absolutely no forensic evidence of "intruders" could still claim (or pretend to) that Mac didn't do it . . .

It's just impossible for me to believe bunny . . . you know, I could see if it was a person who perhaps had just seen a 1/2 hour recap-style show of The Family Slaughter . . . but to just go on and on and on and on about case minutiae is perplexing and troubling to me.:(

That's why I was sooooo happy to see Bert Tansill FINALLY admit macdonalds total guilt before leaving our discussion permanently! WAY TO GO BERT! :beer:

[byn63]

Originally posted by caphill



I didn't know solicitation was allowed on the message board.

That was a SUGGESTION not a solicitation. Since I have nothing to do with the fund I can't solicit for them. However, YOU said their was not much of anything you could do to honor their memory and I simply pointed out ONE possibility.

[cami]

Originally posted by caphill
Read of Colonel Rock's statement regarding the CID investigation.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/cid_rock_1971-01-05_p1.html

Read the CID report #3 of the blood that was found throughout the house of the victims. read item 10 that show the locations of blood of A-Colette and O- Kristens in the master bedroom and other areas of the house. It you read all 25 pages you will see that are a number of blood traces of all three victims and mixatures of all victims in different areas of all three bedrooms. It is interesting to the see the diagram Murtagh put together of the master bedroom and show how fails to show the jury any mixatures or blood spots that contain Kristen's blood in the masterbed. It appears Murtagh cherry picked the blood evidence from the CID report that he wanted the jury to know about.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/cid_record_3_07.html

You can call me a liar all day long but I didn't write the CID reports of where blood was found. I didn' t make the many contradictory reports from what the CID reported and from what Murtagh presented to the courts.

http://karisable.com/macdonald.htm

Another site of info. Thanks Christina for an amazing compilation
of years of research of available documentation.

No one is calling you a liar, we are calling you a "selective reader" the report reads A OR O, not A and O.

Recommending Karisable. com is another waste of time. She wrote the Crime Library piece, which is fraught with glaring mistakes and geared to macdonald's innocence. Karisable.com is hardly impartial.

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by ArthurThorp
Bert Tansill has never changed his mind about the MacDonald case.

I reckon that both Bill Posey and Jan Snyder were threatened by the Stoeckley group. Murtagh and Blackburn seemed to know a thing or two about threatening witnesses, like Helena Stoeckley.

I have just noticed an interesting conversation Dr MacDonald had with Pruett and Kearns in, I think, 1971. There are unanswered questions about Cathy Perry’s involvement in the MacDonald murders. It seemed that Dr MacDonald treated Cathy Perry’s boyfriend called Warmbrod in hospital. It sounds to me as though Dr MacDonald may have had an argument with this guy, perhaps about drugs. Dr MacDonald was very anti-drugs.

From what I can gather, Cathy Perry and this Warmbrod guy lived together with Eddie McDaniels, who was a friend of Greg Mitchell. Eddie McDaniels was the one who transported the clothes and boots to Mrs Garcia. I think Warmbrod may have also used the name Jack Wolverton.

I know all this sounds rather complicated. I believe the FBI should have closely, and thoroughly questioned this Warmbrod/Wolverton guy, and Eddie McDaniels. I don’t know if there are any police reports about these people in the CID case files. Somehow I doubt it. It sounds to me as though Warmbrod and Eddie McDaniels were the sons of army colonels, which might explain why they seem to be above the law.

This is what was said at the Pruett and Kearns interview. I find it interesting in that it might explain some motive for why Dr MacDonald and his family were attacked:

Q Does the name Cathy Perry mean anything to you? 18 years old, Caucasian, from Fort Bragg?

A Cathy Perry? Caucasian.

Q Right

A No

Q I might be in for a lawsuit. She is a common-law wife or either married to a person named Warmbrod. Warmbrod is a dependent of a retired Army Colonel in the Fort Bragg area. Did you treat him or somebody else named Warmbrod?

A I don’t remember. I remember that name, that’s all.

Q Can you recall the treatment?

A No

Q Male or female named Warmbrod?

A I am not sure it was a male; I assume it was a male. I don’t know why, but I seem - I get the feeling it was about a problem that he had at the hospital with his wife or something. I might be totally wrong. I just have a feeling that he was the guy that came into my office and was complaining about something. I am not sure.

Well, thanks, Art, for a whole lot of nuthin', as usual, except for that juicy tidbit about your absolute knowlege of the inner workings of the Mind Of Bert Tansill. Gee, I wonder how you are so very sure about this? You see, I talked to Bert, myself, and he told me that he came to his senses and realized that MacDonald is a wife and baby killer who belongs right where he is.


Heh, heh
:D

[audpaud]

Originally posted by caphill



I didn't know solicitation was allowed on the message board.


So VERY painful.:(

[rashomon]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle
when, what to my wondering eyes should appear....

(no, silly rabbit, i'm not talking about santa...although...come to think of it....i bet those fibers making up his beard are pretty long. we "ought to" get them DNA tested!)

miss bunny, i do declare, but i think we are making some progress here. i think the point has finally been gotten across that you and christina are two separate individuals!:eek:

p.s. are you coming to our next tea club meeting? (were you even a part of that? lol)

Ah, how I'd like to come to that tea club meeting too, Bunny and Stacy! But I don't dare to enter the US again. The time has finally come to 'fess up for me. But please don't tell anyone yet, ok? So between me, you and this message board: you know that woman on the corner near Castle Drive on Feb 17/70? The one with the floppy hat? Well that was actually me.
Of course I had nothing to do with the murders at all. I had simply had a most awful row with my boyfriend and stormed outside in a fury. Silly young me, always so easily angered back then!
Well, there I was standing, shivering in the rain and suddenly feeling very foolish. Which is why I went back to my boyfriend's house after a while. For him it was no big deal because he was used to my temperamental behavior.

But the next days, when I read they were actually looking for me, I got the shock of my life! I didn't want to be involved in this. The ground got too hot under my feet and I beat it. I fled to Germany where I had relatives, and have never since set on foot on American soil again. But now and again I get homesick and go on the message boards.
You mean it's risky to tell that here in public? Well, I can assure you: Albie never reads my posts anyway, and as for Cappy, you know how she's like: she never recognizes things even when they are right under her nose. :D

Another thing, Bunny: Your good friend Bugs Bunny phoned me today and asked if he could come to your tea party too. He'd like to see you again after so many years. You know that he's forever grateful to you because thanks to your corroboration, he had an ironclad alibi for Feb 17/70 (Albie suspected him to be involved, remember?).
The Bugs and you were both preparing a a carrot cake on that night.
He asked me if you still have the recipe, because it was a most delicious cake. He would also help you preparing it.

But he asks if it is possible not to invite the March Hare and the Mad Hatter too. He considers them a bit vulgar. All those silly jokes they make would get on his nerves, especially as Easter is nearing and he is a bit stressed-out anyway. :biggrin:

So if it's okay with you, just tell me and I'll phone him back!

[rashomon]

Originally posted by byn63

It was sort of sad to hear that Bo Peep's sheep was lost, but, REALLY sad to hear that Humpty committed suicide because of his involvement in the disappearance!:rose:

Humpty Dumpty's death has always been very suspicious to me, even as a kid.
Was it suicide? Was he involved in the sheeps' disappearance, his alibi was sudendly shattered and he shattered himself in despair?
Or could it have been an accident? Maybe Humpty was fed psy-op drugs by the King's army and they used him as some kind of guinea pig? I vaguely remember reading about this on Lucia Bartoli's site.
And poor Humpty, full of all these psy-op drugs, sitting on that wall, suddenly lost balance and was smashed to pieces.
But of course the King's army tried to cover it up. "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together again: Ha! "Couldn't"! What a shameless lie. They did not want to put him together again of course, for fear he might talk.

Let's consider another ugly possiblity: murder. Could it have been murder? Could Humpty have been seing something sitting on the wall and he was silenced forever as a witness? Again we will never know.
But recently discovered personal notes of Lewis Carroll point in quite another direction: It seems that Humpty Dumpty was killed for motives of jealousy. It was an open secret that the Queen of Hearts was very fond of Humpty. She always fed him good things, invited him over to her court, read him stories, took him out in her coach. In short, he was her favorite.
Now the Queen of Spades, who had always been immensely jealous of the Queen of Hearts, wanted Humpty Dumpty to herself too. She couldn't stand the Queen of Hearts, because in her opinion she was queening it too much in Wonderland, being the wife of the highest-ranking king, the King of Hearts.

And maybe one day, as Humpty was sitting on the wall waiting for the Queeen of Hearts, the Queen of Spades crept up behind the wall and pushed him down!
The Queen of Hearts should not have him to herself. Nobody should have him.
But when Lewis Carroll tried to do some digging into Humpty's death, he was stonewalled.
Even the Mad Hatter and the March Hare were interviewd as suspects. But they vehemently denied any involvement. They said they both were too crazy to organize such a crime.

Lewis Carroll also tried to talk to the King of Hearts and the King of Spades. But they implored him not to delve into the matter further. The damage was done anyway, and they did not not want yet another cat fight between their cantankerous wives tarnish their already complicated reign in Wonderland. They even promised Carroll that if he would keep his mouth shut they would do anything to make him one of the greatest authors of all time. And as we know, Caroll finally gave in.

But one can really see in the story how angry the Queen of Hearts was later in the story . Was the real reason for her fury her shock about Humpty's death? We will never know.

But forensics do point to the Queen of Spades' involvement, at least that's what Lucia Bartoli's newest research project says.
For example: the black hair found at the crime scene turned out to be NOT a hair from one of the king's horses, but the Queen of Spades' hair.
And a black fiber found on the wall was NOT one fiber from a knight's glove insert, but a fiber of an embroidered black spade on the Queen's clothing. At least that's what the fiber experts contacted by Bartoli say. :biggrin:

But although this is good evidence, it is not conclusive enough. Which is why Humpty's death will forever remain one of the unsolved cases in literary history ...

I wish you all a happy Easter! :seeya:

[barskin&co.]

Thanks, rashomon!:seeya:

And Gut Yom Tov! to all, as well. (Happy Passover!) :seeya:

And, of course, to Old MacDonald, have a happy holiday and, may I add, have a nice life...sentence...in prison. :seeya:

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by rashomon
Another thing, Bunny: Your good friend Bugs Bunny phoned me today and asked if he could come to your tea party too. He'd like to see you again after so many years. You know that he's forever grateful to you because thanks to your corroboration, he had an ironclad alibi for Feb 17/70 (Albie suspected him to be involved, remember?).
The Bugs and you were both preparing a a carrot cake on that night.
He asked me if you still have the recipe, because it was a most delicious cake. He would also help you preparing it.

But he asks if it is possible not to invite the March Hare and the Mad Hatter too. He considers them a bit vulgar. All those silly jokes they make would get on his nerves, especially as Easter is nearing and he is a bit stressed-out anyway.
Originally posted by rashomon
And poor Humpty, full of all these psy-op drugs, sitting on that wall, suddenly lost balance and was smashed to pieces.
But of course the King's army tried to cover it up. "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty together again: Ha! "Couldn't"! What a shameless lie. They did not want to put him together again of course, for fear he might talk...Let's consider another ugly possiblity: murder. Could it have been murder?Rash, dear lady, you have really outdone yourself this time! LOL!! Not one, but two hilarious Rash masterpieces back-to-back. My cup runneth over.

Happy Easter to you, too, and thanks for some laughs that are going to last me all weekend and more. :)

[stinkerbelle]

omg rash...i didn't know you had it in you girl. your two posts above are truly masterpieces. :D

as for the tea club, that was something that came about on jednme's board, as a result of a comment from yet another board (made by airknocker's favorite friend/alter ego). you are certainly welcome to join the club, but i can understand why you wouldn't want to actually attend any meetings. oh! and congrats on having such great legs that mica noticed them!

happy easter to all (and to all a good night!) :patriot:

[audpaud]

HOOOORAY!!!! . . . Sing with me:

barskin's back . . .
and you're gonna be in trouble . . . ;)
. . . HEY LA . . .
HEY LA . . .
barskin is back!!! :beer:


Have you been reading Fatal Vision?

[Bunny2]

Browning's trial testimony isn't yet on CM's website, but I see that the defense has included one selected excerpt from it in their recent filings.

It's been ages since I read Browning's other statements, but a couple of things I noted that I don't remember reading before were that Browning says (1) that one of the candle unknowns "matched beautifully" with a candle in a bottle taken from Mac's apartment, and (2) that all three unknowns were apparently old and brittle (I'd always thought it was only the coffee table wax which was found to be old, and never even thought about the age of the others, I'm ashamed to admit...).

Anyway, here's Browning on the wax (emphasis added):

"Well, wax itself is pretty much the same. It's very difficult to distinguish, but there were three different types of wax. One of the unknowns was a multicolored type of wax that physically matched beautifully with the candle in the bottle.

"However, on analysis, I received some fluorescence under ultraviolet light in the unknown that I did not receive in the known, so I eliminated it and said it did not have a common source. The other two as I remember, I believe one was a pale green color, I just don't remember the color of the other."

Also, regarding the age of the three samples (Murtagh questioning):

Q Now, Mr. Browning, with respect to wax, which you were asked about on cross-examination, if you know, sir, was any wax collected from the area of the steps leading to the living room submitted to you for examination?

A No, it was not.

Q Okay, with respect to the wax that was submitted, that is, from the coffee table and the arm of the chair in Kimberly's room, and I believe one of the bedspreads in Kimberly's room, could you tell us, sir, if you have an opinion satisfactory to yourself, whether this was new wax or old wax or what?

A Well, the wax present was more or less brittle and flaky...

(snipped - objection by Segal; Dupree lets Browning finish...)

A (continued): I continued to work with the wax submitted, and the wax melted fresh remained soft and pliable for several weeks. This seemed to be brittle and dry, which would indicate to me that it was at least several weeks old when I received it.

I also noted that nowhere in this excerpt did Browning testify to seeing or examining any residue from Helena's blood-dripping candle. What a surprise. :)

[JTF]

Bunny: Included in that same series of documents is an excerpt from Hilyard Medlin's 1979 trial testimony, but the MacDonald defense team didn't even include Medlin's response to Blackburn's question about the presence of prints that were, "bloody in nature." I'm assuming that the defense team either forgot about this portion of Medlin's testimony or the totality of Medlin's testimony put the proper context on Blackburn's inquiry. Interesting how the bloody palmprint issue has not been brought forth by the MacDonald camp since Brian Murtagh squashed it at the 2005 parole hearing.

JTF.

[Spamela]

Humpty Dumpty's death has always been very suspicious to me, even as a kid.
Was it suicide? Was he involved in the sheeps' disappearance, his alibi was sudendly shattered and he shattered himself in despair?

Rash....whatever you are on....I want some, too!!!! It must be some mighty fine stuff.

[Spamela]

Originally posted by audpaud


That's why I was sooooo happy to see Bert Tansill FINALLY admit macdonalds total guilt before leaving our discussion permanently! WAY TO GO BERT! :beer:

That is great that Bert finally saw the light! I am really pleased for him. Freeing his mind from the shackles of the MacDonlad lies must have been very good for his mental and emotional state. It just goes to show, that posters on this board CAN make a difference. One man was lost in darkness and through the logic of people like bunny and jtf, Bert was able to understand the truth. Why, it IS a miracle!

[byn63]

Originally posted by Spamela
Humpty Dumpty's death has always been very suspicious to me, even as a kid.
Was it suicide? Was he involved in the sheeps' disappearance, his alibi was sudendly shattered and he shattered himself in despair?

Rash....whatever you are on....I want some, too!!!! It must be some mighty fine stuff.

ROFLMAO! Tears streaming! Sides are aching from laughing so hard and long! I'm with spammy! I wanna share too!

Rash - that was some of the funniest reading material I've had the pleasure to peruse in a looooooooong time! Thanks a million! Happy Easter and Happy Passover to EVERYONE!

[audpaud]

Originally posted by ArthurThorp
Bert Tansill has never changed his mind about the MacDonald case . . .

Sorry that you appear to be out of the loop Arthur, the Farewell Post by Bert Tansill was among the most poignant words I've ever read on a Message Board! In it, she (yes, Bert is a woman!) apologized to the Posters here at Courtv, to Courttv MB's and to the family & friends of the victims of this horrible crime!!!:eek:

Later, thru Private Message/emails . . . Berta asked me to share with all that she is yet another victim in the long line of women held captive by MacDonalds Svengali-like, charismatic charm. Sadly, Alberta has sent most of her life savings/retirement $$$ to the Mac Defense Fund over the years . . . despite an increasing suspicion (sending a special THANK YOU to cami, bunny, JTF, rash, stinkyb, spam here!) that this Fiend is indeed guilty.

To make a long, sad story short . . . the recent DNA results were the final straw. Berta tried to continue proclaiming MacInnocence but her heart wasn't in it . . . yes, she did lash out in an outrageous manner, but wants all to know that it was out of desperation and asks forgiveness . . . . and . . . .

for prayers! (Alberta is now working as a greeter at a National Retail Chain to supplement her meager Social Security income---savings/retirment totally drained!) . . . . but not prayers for herself!

No, Berta instead asks that should you say a prayer, or light a candle this Blessed Easter Season . . . do so in memory & honor of Colette, Kim & Kristin!:rose:

[rashomon]

Originally posted by RayC


Silly me, I thought Arthur Thorp was the reincarnation of Bert Tansill, oder vice versa.

Ray

I always thought that too. For BertTansill sounded exactly like Arthur Thorp, from the way he phrased his sentences down to the r*cist contents of his posts.

Example:
Originally posted by Bert Tansill

"I think Fred Kassab was a very dangerous man.

It could just be Kassab's semi-Asiatic background and a lack of character and general reliability."

That's Arthur Thorp all over!
What I noticed was that when BertTansill showed up here, Arthur Thorp was suddenly gone. I assumed that he couldn't get through as ArthurThorp here anymore, which is why he created a new alias.
Why have all of BertTansill's posts vanished from the board? Does Courttv eliminate posts from people who have left their message board?
And as soon as BertTansill is gone, ArhurThorp is here again!
I haven't read that 'farewell' letter by Bert/Berta. Isn't it possible that Arthur Thorp is simply someone who thoroughly enjoys creating aliases, and gave his Bert/Berta a great exit here by writing a poignant farewell letter in which Berta suddenly 'saw the light'.
Would such a fervent, stubborn, biased
person like Bert, who was completely unable to enter into any factual discussion suddenly do a 180 degree turn and write a tear-jerking letter in which he/she suddenly apologizes for having been so wrong? I don't buy it, and wouldn't believe Bert/Berta one word.
I think ArthurThorp is playing games here.

But maybe this was all a joke and that farewell letter doesn't exist? If it exists, has someone copied it and could post it here?

[barskin&co.]

You see, I happen to be intimate with Bert, and I mean that in the down and dirty, hot monkey love kind of way, and Bert told me that, hallelujah, he had seen the light. He knows now that the inmate is a rightfully convicted wife and baby killer. Let's hear it for Bert, a man who isn't afraid to admit when he is wrong!

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by rashomon
I always thought that too. For BertTansill sounded exactly like Arthur Thorp, from the way he phrased his sentences down to the r*cist contents of his posts.

Example:
Originally posted by Bert Tansill

"I think Fred Kassab was a very dangerous man.

It could just be Kassab's semi-Asiatic background and a lack of character and general reliability."

That's Arthur Thorp all over!
What I noticed was that when BertTansill showed up here, Arthur Thorp was suddenly gone.Rash, Bert and Arthur were the same person, no doubt about it. In fact, he admitted it himself. When he got banned from A&E and came here as Bert Tansill, his first post as Bert started out with: "Arthur Thorp's computer seems to have packed up for the time being, and it has had to go in for repair. The computer doesn't seem to start up for some reason. I don't know if that's some kind of switch fault, or what. Arthur and Albie have had to come back with a brand new identity, if not a fake passport."

In going back just through the past few pages of the board, I don't seem to see any of ArthurThorp's posts here anymore. What a wonderful thing it would be if this fraud were gone for good.

[Bunny2]

Christina's uploaded so many good documents lately, my notepad is overflowing. And not only did we get some of the old crime photos back again (in addition to some new ones), but some of the appendices to the government's filings yesterday contain some great photos I've never seen before.

I'm especially incredulous when I keep reading all those old defense court filings where they make repeated statements saying things like the mere presence of synthetic fibers in a brush is direct evidence that Stoeckley was present during the murders. Direct evidence?? An unmatched piece of saran is "direct evidence" of an intruder's presence? I just shake my head in amazement.

I also love the bit about how they use the gurney/stretcher to explain away Mac's footprints entering Kristen's room. I haven't seen Silverglate et al talk about Mac's supposedly doing backflips and landing in Kris's room (that was Bost's theory, I think), but they do say that just wheeling the gurney down the hallway could have removed the footprints entering Kris's room. OK, even if I buy that and accept that Mac made footprints entering Kristen's room (which I don't actually believe), and the process of rolling the stretcher down the hallway removed his prints from the hallway, how did that erase the supposed prints which would have been continuing on into the room and over to Kris's bed? Were they actually trying to make the Court believe that Mac made bloody footprints in Colette's blood as he went down the hallway to Kris's room, but the prints that would have continued on into her room suddenly stopped at the doorway, and the stretcher only removed the ones in the hallway? It's that kind of reasoning, and statements that a saran fiber was "direct" evidence of Stoeckley's presence, just make me wonder how any lawyer could even have the nerve to write such things. Incredible.

Personally, I couldn't care less whether a saran fiber came from a wig or a doll or a dust mop. Mac didn't describe the female as wearing a wig; Stoeckley may have owned a thousand wigs; and there could have been black wool wigs there for all I care, but none of that matters. Unless one of those fibers were to be matched conclusively to some "wig" of an intruder's, and until there's further corroborating evidence of that person's participation in the murders, it means nothing at all. JMO.

[rashomon]

Originally posted by barskin&co.
You see, I happen to be intimate with Bert, and I mean that in the down and dirty, hot monkey love kind of way, and Bert told me that, hallelujah, he had seen the light. He knows now that the inmate is a rightfully convicted wife and baby killer. Let's hear it for Bert, a man who isn't afraid to admit when he is wrong!

Barskin, I'm probably making a fool of myself when I even ask you if your post is meant to be ironic, but bear with me - I'm no native speaker and sometimes I just don't recognize when irony in the foreign language is used.

To me it is so obvious that BertTansill is ArthurThorp. For how could BertTansill have used the exact same phrasings like Arthur, and even the r*cial slurs are the same.
Of course this BertTansill can tell people whatever he wants via e-mail and PM's, but as long as I don't know him/her personally, I would not believe that person one word.

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by Bunny2


In going back just through the past few pages of the board, I don't seem to see any of ArthurThorp's posts here anymore. What a wonderful thing it would be if this fraud were gone for good.

Yes, I just looked it up in the members' listing, and Art/Bert is banned. I expect a new identity to pop up (he/she has never used Albert Webb, here, has she/he?). Of course, whatever name Art/Bert uses, she/he will be immediately recognizable.

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by rashomon


Barskin, I'm probably making a fool of myself when I even ask you if your post is meant to be ironic, but bear with me - I'm no native speaker and sometimes I just don't recognize when irony in the foreign language is used.

To me it is so obvious that BertTansill is ArthurThorp. For how could BertTansill have used the exact same phrasings like Arthur, and even the r*cial slurs are the same.
Of course this BertTansill can tell people whatever he wants via e-mail and PM's, but as long as I don't know him/her personally, I would not believe that person one word.

Well, I don't know if I would say ironic, but I am joking.
Of course, Art/Bert is is one person. Oh, and thank God for that! I would hate to think there could be two of these kind of people in existance.

[rashomon]

Originally posted by barskin&co.


Well, I don't know if I would say ironic, but I am joking.
Of course, Art/Bert is is one person. Oh, and thank God for that! I would hate to think there could be two of these kind of people in existance.

LOL, barskin, I just read your PM - now I'm finally 'seeing the light' too in the Bert/Arthur issue. ROFL! :D

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by Bunny2

I also love the bit about how they use the gurney/stretcher to explain away Mac's footprints entering Kristen's room. I haven't seen Silverglate et al talk about Mac's supposedly doing backflips and landing in Kris's room (that was Bost's theory, I think), but they do say that just wheeling the gurney down the hallway could have removed the footprints entering Kris's room. OK, even if I buy that and accept that Mac made footprints entering Kristen's room (which I don't actually believe), and the process of rolling the stretcher down the hallway removed his prints from the hallway, how did that erase the supposed prints which would have been continuing on into the room and over to Kris's bed? Were they actually trying to make the Court believe that Mac made bloody footprints in Colette's blood as he went down the hallway to Kris's room, but the prints that would have continued on into her room suddenly stopped at the doorway, and the stretcher only removed the ones in the hallway? It's that kind of reasoning, and statements that a saran fiber was "direct" evidence of Stoeckley's presence, just make me wonder how any lawyer could even have the nerve to write such things. Incredible.


totally agree bunny, especially since kristen had a pretty large rug in her room. although since mac is apparently such an acrobat, i guess he probably could have done another backflip or possibly even a fancy ballet move!

[stinkerbelle]

and while i'm on the subject, was there any blood found on that rug? if not, why the heck not? someone help me out here...i'm too lazy to wade thru documents and exhibit numbers that make my eyes cross but this has been bugging me ever since i saw that photo.

[cami]

Originally posted by audpaud
HOOOORAY!!!! . . . Sing with me:

barskin's back . . .
and you're gonna be in trouble . . . ;)
. . . HEY LA . . .
HEY LA . . .
barskin is back!!! :beer:


Have you been reading Fatal Vision?

Ha Ha ahaaaahahaha someone is showing their age. That was a great tune though, LOL.

[cami]

Originally posted by RayC


Silly me, I thought Arthur Thorp was the reincarnation of Bert Tansill, oder vice versa.

Ray

it's actually the other way round Ray. Bert is the reincarnation of Artie. He was Albert Webb on aande...Bertie. So we just continue to call him Bertie regardless of what name he uses.

[gmetzerious]

Originally posted by barskin&co.


Yes, I just looked it up in the members' listing, and Art/Bert is banned. I expect a new identity to pop up (he/she has never used Albert Webb, here, has she/he?). Of course, whatever name Art/Bert uses, she/he will be immediately recognizable.

I have seen the name Albert Webb I think over at AET.

[barskin&co.]

Originally posted by cami


it's actually the other way round Ray. Bert is the reincarnation of Artie. He was Albert Webb on aande...Bertie. So we just continue to call him Bertie regardless of what name he uses.

Or she...in which case I would now be a lesbian, according to my recent posts. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[minischnauzer]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle


totally agree bunny, especially since kristen had a pretty large rug in her room. although since mac is apparently such an acrobat, i guess he probably could have done another backflip or possibly even a fancy ballet move!

You know, I hadn't thought of it before, but if Mac was making those kinds of moves, I don't see how he could have been seriously injured, especiallly with the paramedics allowing him to do all this! Apparrently he has talents even we don't know about. Maybe this is what keeps those "ladies" coming!

[caphill]

I was reading Christina's MacDonald info site and Kerans sworn statment of 4-5-72.

Again, I am amazed at the continuing incomptence of the CID retired agents. Kearns proudly acknowledges he , with his approval to post, is giving Christina copy of info from his files involving the MacDonald case.

This affidavit states that on 12-31-70 Agent Walthall, FBI office in Fayetteville had contacted him that Mrs Garcia had info allegedly linking Cathy Perry to the murders of the Macdonald family.

Kearns goes on to state in his affidavit that Garcia claimed that Perry had been picked in the spring of 1970 for an alleged stabbing of a male and that on 12-29-70 was again involved in another stabbing incident. On about 12-30-70 Perry allegedly attemped to stab Garcia's son.

Kearns goes to state that his investigation revealed that Perry had arrived in Fayetteville in the summer of 1970. He then goes on to state that she and her group of associations arrived in Fyetteville in the summer of 1971.

He does make reference to Perry admitting she was in Fayetteville during Feb 1970 to Agent Bennett. Kearns does not clarify why he had made prior statements that the investigation showed she arrived in Fayettelville in the summer of 1970 and then stated she arrived in the summer of 1971.

Was this affidavit designed to confuse or it just an another example of carelessness and ineptitude of accuracy of dates and times of important events.

Was it just carelessness that Kearns released a document that includes not only his social security number but the social security numbers of Cathy Perry and Donald Yengich.

If he wants to post his social number on a public internet site is one thing but I think it is extremely dangerous decision to post Perry and Yengich's social security for public access.

I would doubt seriously that Perry or Yengich knows or approves of his posting of their most private information regarding their social security numbers. I have seen a number of documents on the Jeffrey MacDonald site that has social secuirty numbers posted on the copies of affidavits and otherr documents.

In this world of identify theft it is extremely careless , if not down right illegal, to post SS# for public access. This, to me, shows the ineptitude and arrogance of a retired Govt offical to think that they have ownership, rights and authority to post SS#s of anybody on the internet.

If the CID and Kearns had been so liberal in disclosing all the evidence that was collected at the crime scene as they are liberal in disclosing the SS#s number of many people on the internet, then maybe the trial wouldd have had a different verdict and we would not be here discussing this case today.

[stinkerbelle]

Dizzle now pass the glock Anotha dogg house production.! you solved tha case yeah yeah baby! everyone is a liar, Snoop heffner mixed with a little bit of doggy flint! a liar, i tizzle you, a liar with the S-N-double-O-P! ! jeffy poser macmurda is tha mizzle shiznit dogg on tha planet fo shizzle!

[realityaddict06]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle
Dizzle now pass the glock Anotha dogg house production.! you solved tha case yeah yeah baby! everyone is a liar, Snoop heffner mixed with a little bit of doggy flint! a liar, i tizzle you, a liar with the S-N-double-O-P! ! jeffy poser macmurda is tha mizzle shiznit dogg on tha planet fo shizzle!


Stinkerbizzle youve gizzy n hit tha nizzy on tha heezee, tha round, fizzy end of tha nail, not tha pointy one, so props ta you dawg . Keep'n it gangsta dogg. :D

[realityaddict06]

Originally posted by caphill
I was reading Christina's MacDonald info site and Kerans sworn statment of 4-5-72.

Again, I am amazed at the continuing incomptence of the CID retired agents. Kearns proudly acknowledges he , with his approval to post, is giving Christina copy of info from his files involving the MacDonald case.

This affidavit states that on 12-31-70 Agent Walthall, FBI office in Fayetteville had contacted him that Mrs Garcia had info allegedly linking Cathy Perry to the murders of the Macdonald family.

Kearns goes on to state in his affidavit that Garcia claimed that Perry had been picked in the spring of 1970 for an alleged stabbing of a male and that on 12-29-70 was again involved in another stabbing incident. On about 12-30-70 Perry allegedly attemped to stab Garcia's son.

Kearns goes to state that his investigation revealed that Perry had arrived in Fayetteville in the summer of 1970. He then goes on to state that she and her group of associations arrived in Fyetteville in the summer of 1971.

He does make reference to Perry admitting she was in Fayetteville during Feb 1970 to Agent Bennett. Kearns does not clarify why he had made prior statements that the investigation showed she arrived in Fayettelville in the summer of 1970 and then stated she arrived in the summer of 1971.

Was this affidavit designed to confuse or it just an another example of carelessness and ineptitude of accuracy of dates and times of important events.

Was it just carelessness that Kearns released a document that includes not only his social security number but the social security numbers of Cathy Perry and Donald Yengich.

If he wants to post his social number on a public internet site is one thing but I think it is extremely dangerous decision to post Perry and Yengich's social security for public access.

I would doubt seriously that Perry or Yengich knows or approves of his posting of their most private information regarding their social security numbers. I have seen a number of documents on the Jeffrey MacDonald site that has social secuirty numbers posted on the copies of affidavits and otherr documents.

In this world of identify theft it is extremely careless , if not down right illegal, to post SS# for public access. This, to me, shows the ineptitude and arrogance of a retired Govt offical to think that they have ownership, rights and authority to post SS#s of anybody on the internet.

If the CID and Kearns had been so liberal in disclosing all the evidence that was collected at the crime scene as they are liberal in disclosing the SS#s number of many people on the internet, then maybe the trial wouldd have had a different verdict and we would not be here discussing this case today.


Cappy, you use a lot of words to say very little....your posts start out ok, but then trying to read all of those words eventually make your posts look like this:

"Egeeen, I em emezed et zee cunteenooing incumptence-a ooff zee CID retured egents. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Keerns pruoodly ecknooledges he-a , veet hees epprufel tu pust, is geefing Chreestina cupy ooff inffu frum hees feeles infulfeeng zee MecDuneld cese-a. Thees effffeedefit stetes thet oon 12-31-70 Egent Velthell, FBI ooffffeece-a in Feyettefeelle-a hed cuntected heem thet Mrs Gerceea hed inffu ellegedly leenking Cethy Perry tu zee moorders ooff zee Mecduneld femeely. Bork bork bork! Keerns gues oon tu stete-a in hees effffeedefit thet Gerceea cleeemed thet Perry hed beee peecked in zee spreeng ooff 1970 fur un elleged stebbeeng ooff a mele-a und thet oon 12-29-70 ves egeeen infulfed in unuzeer stebbeeng inceedent. Um de hur de hur de hur. Oon ebuoot 12-30-70 Perry ellegedly ettemped tu steb Gerceee's sun.......yada yada yada.

ergo, the points you are trying to make, just get lost in translation!

[byn63]

Originally posted by realityaddict06



Cappy, you use a lot of words to say very little....your posts start out ok, but then trying to read all of those words eventually make your posts look like this:

"Egeeen, I em emezed et zee cunteenooing incumptence-a ooff zee CID retured egents. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Keerns pruoodly ecknooledges he-a , veet hees epprufel tu pust, is geefing Chreestina cupy ooff inffu frum hees feeles infulfeeng zee MecDuneld cese-a. Thees effffeedefit stetes thet oon 12-31-70 Egent Velthell, FBI ooffffeece-a in Feyettefeelle-a hed cuntected heem thet Mrs Gerceea hed inffu ellegedly leenking Cethy Perry tu zee moorders ooff zee Mecduneld femeely. Bork bork bork! Keerns gues oon tu stete-a in hees effffeedefit thet Gerceea cleeemed thet Perry hed beee peecked in zee spreeng ooff 1970 fur un elleged stebbeeng ooff a mele-a und thet oon 12-29-70 ves egeeen infulfed in unuzeer stebbeeng inceedent. Um de hur de hur de hur. Oon ebuoot 12-30-70 Perry ellegedly ettemped tu steb Gerceee's sun.......yada yada yada.

ergo, the points you are trying to make, just get lost in translation!

cappy is trying to make a point? :lol:

[rashomon]

Originally posted by caphill
If the CID and Kearns had been so liberal in disclosing all the evidence that was collected at the crime scene as they are liberal in disclosing the SS#s number of many people on the internet, then maybe the trial wouldd have had a different verdict and we would not be here discussing this case today.

You mean they should have disclosed the remaining 40 per cent which they had against MacDonald too (I suppose you know that the prosecution used only 60 per cent of what they had against him)? :D

And Cathy Perry was ruled out by the DNA testings, dearie, in case you have missed it.

Here is some info on Perry (taken from one of JTF's posts on another board):

"The following are the pertinent facts regarding Cathy Perry.

1) Perry was interviewed in 1971 by CID agents Mike Pickering and Jack Bennett. Perry denied being involved in the murders.

2) Samples of Perry's head hairs were obtained from a hairbrush she left at her former residence. Comparisons with head hairs found at the crime scene were undertaken by the CID in 1971 and not 1 of the head hairs matched exemplars from Perry.

3) Perry provided a bizarre confession to the FBI in 1984 which included stories of unnamed individuals scooping up Perry on the street, Perry stabbing Colette in the legs and abdomen, and the unnamed intruders going upstairs to kill MacDonald's 2 young boys. Perry recanted that confession later in 1984, citing the effectiveness of her Thorazine treatments for her schizophrenia.

Justthefacts."

[Spamela]

Originally posted by barskin&co.
You see, I happen to be intimate with Bert, and I mean that in the down and dirty, hot monkey love kind of way, and Bert told me that, hallelujah, he had seen the light. He knows now that the inmate is a rightfully convicted wife and baby killer. Let's hear it for Bert, a man who isn't afraid to admit when he is wrong!

barskin, I don't mind what you do with Bert/Berta, but I get first dibs on the burly MPs. Nothing personal, just staking out my territory. Of course, my heart belongs to Brian Murtagh, but he is taken, alas. Now, can you give me some details about this hot monkey love stuff.....?

[Spamela]

Reality, I think you are misinterpreting cap's post.
When you say:
Egeeen, I em emezed et zee cunteenooing incumptence-a ooff zee CID retured egents. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Keerns pruoodly ecknooledges he-a , veet hees epprufel tu pust, is geefing Chreestina cupy ooff inffu frum hees feeles infulfeeng zee MecDuneld cese-a.

I think what Cap REALLY meant was:
Aldf laera xlxe eee lciaz enras tmer adpwm werkp apoei tnhe thawe vers vewr pwent toenmd tjekem tekl thej nsei sdis. Llser slie ngie toe tppisae mise Raosid Sco ntasi. Cse tneis theem mwovd thae. Jlser Jier mdr twe pfsaer nyaser ntwers.

NOW do you get it?

[Rockford]

Scuse me for butting Bunny, Rash, Spam, JTF.

I thought all of you I just mentioned, and the others who are interested in this case, might want to know about a documetary that is set to air on Monday, April 24, with Ronald DeFeo.

It will focus on the mind of a killer, and maybe this might help us all in undertanding why MacDonald chose to do what he did.

Here is the link:

http://www.aetv.com/listings/episode_details.do?episodeid=150931

Sorry to interrupt.

[audpaud]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle
Dizzle now pass the glock Anotha dogg house production.! you solved tha case yeah yeah baby! everyone is a liar, Snoop heffner mixed with a little bit of doggy flint! a liar, i tizzle you, a liar with the S-N-double-O-P! ! jeffy poser macmurda is tha mizzle shiznit dogg on tha planet fo shizzle!


I just don't think I have EVAH laughed so damn hard at the PC than when I read this and the exchanges that followed!:eek: I simply could not even BREATHE, I was laughing so hard! Tx stinkyb & all for the perfect replies to the utter nonsense caphill posted!:beer:

caphill: This is the Is Jeffrey MacDonald Guilty? Thread . . . NOT the "Website Kritique Korner!":no:

[byn63]

Originally posted by Spamela
Reality, I think you are misinterpreting cap's post.
When you say:
Egeeen, I em emezed et zee cunteenooing incumptence-a ooff zee CID retured egents. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Keerns pruoodly ecknooledges he-a , veet hees epprufel tu pust, is geefing Chreestina cupy ooff inffu frum hees feeles infulfeeng zee MecDuneld cese-a.

I think what Cap REALLY meant was:
Aldf laera xlxe eee lciaz enras tmer adpwm werkp apoei tnhe thawe vers vewr pwent toenmd tjekem tekl thej nsei sdis. Llser slie ngie toe tppisae mise Raosid Sco ntasi. Cse tneis theem mwovd thae. Jlser Jier mdr twe pfsaer nyaser ntwers.

NOW do you get it?

Oh, thanks spammy I see what you mean!

btw - will you share the burly MPs?:patriot:

[cami]

Originally posted by Rockford
Scuse me for butting Bunny, Rash, Spam, JTF.

I thought all of you I just mentioned, and the others who are interested in this case, might want to know about a documetary that is set to air on Monday, April 24, with Ronald DeFeo.

It will focus on the mind of a killer, and maybe this might help us all in undertanding why MacDonald chose to do what he did.

Here is the link:

http://www.aetv.com/listings/episode_details.do?episodeid=150931

Sorry to interrupt.

Thanks for the info Rockford. It does sound interesting. I think I've seen it before but I will probably tune in. Oh and you are not interrupting.....

[Spamela]

Originally posted by byn63


Oh, thanks spammy I see what you mean!

btw - will you share the burly MPs?:patriot:

byn,
Well, OK. I am sure there are enough to go around! I like them big and stupid....

TITLE: I Like Them Big and Stupid
ARTIST: Julie Brown

When I need somethin' to help me unwind
I find a six foot baby with a one track mind
Smart guys are nowhere, they make demands
Give me a moron with talented hands
I go bar-hopping and they say last call
I start shopping for a Neanderthal

The bigger they come the harder I fall
In love 'til we're done then they're out in the hall

{Refrain}
I like 'em big and stupid
I like 'em big and real dumb
I like 'em big and stupid

What kind of guy does a lot for me
A Superman with a lobotomy
My fathers outa Harvard
My brothers outa Yale
But the guy I took home last night
Just got outa jail

The way he grabbed and threw me, ooh it really got me hot
But the way he growled and bit me, I hope he had his shots

The bigger they are the harder they'll work
I got a soft spot for a good lookin' jerk

[Spamela]

Originally posted by cami

Oh and you are not interrupting.....

What do you mean cami? We were having a veritable intellectual think tank discussion going on......

[cami]

Originally posted by byn63


Oh, thanks spammy I see what you mean!

btw - will you share the burly MPs?:patriot:

Hey I want one of those burlys too. I wonder if there is enough to go round.

[cami]

Originally posted by Spamela


What do you mean cami? We were having a veritable intellectual think tank discussion going on......

doh, over my head spammy....

[Spamela]

Originally posted by cami


Hey I want one of those burlys too. I wonder if there is enough to go round.

Sure. It would be un-Christian not to share, now wouldn't it? The only problem is that I like a man with a nicely trimmed beard, and MP's don't have beards. Just a sacrifice I will have to make, I guess.

[Hotwater]

I don't know if this will help or hinder the discussion but here: Chef/Jive/ValSpeak/PigLatin Translator (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jbc/home/chef.html)

Have Fun!

--Hh20

[Spamela]

Originally posted by Hotwater
I don't know if this will help or hinder the discussion but here: Chef/Jive/ValSpeak/PigLatin Translator (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~jbc/home/chef.html)

Have Fun!

--Hh20

OMG--What a great site! Thanks Hh20!

[minischnauzer]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle
Dizzle now pass the glock Anotha dogg house production.! you solved tha case yeah yeah baby! everyone is a liar, Snoop heffner mixed with a little bit of doggy flint! a liar, i tizzle you, a liar with the S-N-double-O-P! ! jeffy poser macmurda is tha mizzle shiznit dogg on tha planet fo shizzle!

Stinkygirl, whatever you're taking, I need some. And my daughter would like a copy of your new CD when it is released please. I can just her her little Mitsubishi Eclipse booming now!:lol:

[Rockford]

Originally posted by Spamela


What do you mean cami? We were having a veritable intellectual think tank discussion going on......

she was being kind, Spammy.

Your welcome, Cami. I really thought you all might want to know what goes on inside the mind of a killer.

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by minischnauzer


Stinkygirl, whatever you're taking, I need some. And my daughter would like a copy of your new CD when it is released please. I can just her her little Mitsubishi Eclipse booming now!:lol:
aww thanks! i'll send her an autographed copy :)

[realityaddict06]

Originally posted by Spamela
Reality, I think you are misinterpreting cap's post.
When you say:
Egeeen, I em emezed et zee cunteenooing incumptence-a ooff zee CID retured egents. Um gesh dee bork, bork! Keerns pruoodly ecknooledges he-a , veet hees epprufel tu pust, is geefing Chreestina cupy ooff inffu frum hees feeles infulfeeng zee MecDuneld cese-a.

I think what Cap REALLY meant was:
Aldf laera xlxe eee lciaz enras tmer adpwm werkp apoei tnhe thawe vers vewr pwent toenmd tjekem tekl thej nsei sdis. Llser slie ngie toe tppisae mise Raosid Sco ntasi. Cse tneis theem mwovd thae. Jlser Jier mdr twe pfsaer nyaser ntwers.

NOW do you get it?


Ok, NOW ah see yer point, ah cain't believe ah missed it! Fry mah hide!! Fry mah hide!! Fry mah hide! Thanks fo' clearin' it up fo' me, we'dn't be hankerin' enny misconcepshuns o' misunnerstan'in's when it comes t'varmints makin' impo'tant points about th' motives an' mind of inmate, o' about th' minds of his suppo'ters!! Fry mah hide!! Fry mah hide!

[realityaddict06]

Originally posted by byn63


Oh, thanks spammy I see what you mean!

btw - will you share the burly MPs?:patriot:


You ladies need to quit bogarting the burly's!!!

[audpaud]

Originally posted by caphill

If the CID and Kearns had been so liberal in disclosing all the evidence that was collected at the crime scene as they are liberal in disclosing the SS#s number of many people on the internet, then maybe the trial wouldd have had a different verdict and we would not be here discussing this case today.


I had a feeling that the latest DNA results (for newcomers that would be that the hair Colette clutched in her hand was matched to who Jeff MacDonald said would be the REAL killer--and yeah, it was matched: TO HIM!:tongue: ) would really have you reeeeaaaaaching for some kind of new argument to support Dr. Green Beret Family Butcher . . . but caphill . . . really now, is this the best you can come up with?:no: Would you really like This Killer freed due to paperwork technicalities? I ask you again, do you have ANY idea how you come across on a message board? What motivates you caphill? Is it that, like my new email friend Alberta Tansill, that you have sent MacDonald so much money over the years ~ you would feel foolish to stop supporting The Murderer now? :confused:

There were LOTS of folks in the area on February 17, 1970. The blood and fiber evidence proves w/o a doubt that of all these folks, the RIGHT one is in prison!

[realityaddict06]

Originally posted by audpaud



I had a feeling that the latest DNA results (for newcomers that would be that the hair Colette clutched in her hand was matched to who Jeff MacDonald said would be the REAL killer--and yeah, it was matched: TO HIM!:tongue: ) would really have you reeeeaaaaaching for some kind of new argument to support Dr. Green Beret Family Butcher . . . but caphill . . . really now, is this the best you can come up with?:no: Would you really like This Killer freed due to paperwork technicalities? I ask you again, do you have ANY idea how you come across on a message board? What motivates you caphill? Is it that, like my new email friend Alberta Tansill, that you have sent MacDonald so much money over the years ~ you would feel foolish to stop supporting The Murderer now? :confused:

There were LOTS of folks in the area on February 17, 1970. The blood and fiber evidence proves w/o a doubt that of all these folks, the RIGHT one is in prison!


Very well put, Audpaud, especially the last paragraph. I doubt that any of inmate's rapidly dwindling pool of supporters will ever see the truth of the matter for what it is, that he's the only one responsible for the slaughter that went on that night.

[Spamela]

Originally posted by realityaddict06



Very well put, Audpaud, especially the last paragraph. I doubt that any of inmate's rapidly dwindling pool of supporters will ever see the truth of the matter for what it is, that he's the only one responsible for the slaughter that went on that night.

I wonder how many supporters he lost with the DNA evidence? Spurs posted that she had come to see the light, but I wonder what the fall out was. Certainly, MacCamp went into spin-control with the hair "on" Colette's hand being none other than Mac's.

[byn63]

Originally posted by Spamela


I wonder how many supporters he lost with the DNA evidence? Spurs posted that she had come to see the light, but I wonder what the fall out was. Certainly, MacCamp went into spin-control with the hair "on" Colette's hand being none other than Mac's.

I told ya'll they'd come up with a new "dance" in the effort to change from "mystery hair" to "no big deal". I haven't seen any suggestions, but we all know that we can not call it the :chicken: dance, since that name is already taken.

Twister? The Scumball? :shrug:

[cami]

Originally posted by Spamela


Sure. It would be un-Christian not to share, now wouldn't it? The only problem is that I like a man with a nicely trimmed beard, and MP's don't have beards. Just a sacrifice I will have to make, I guess.

I do too....actually if he's bald with a small handle bar mustache, I'm taking a second look...heck a third one too.

Yes, we appreciate your sacrifice for the cause. Maybe Old Ice Pick will grow a beard for you.....ewwwww I'm making my self sick.

:lol:

[cami]

Originally posted by Spamela


I wonder how many supporters he lost with the DNA evidence? Spurs posted that she had come to see the light, but I wonder what the fall out was. Certainly, MacCamp went into spin-control with the hair "on" Colette's hand being none other than Mac's.

One on IMDB that I know of for sure--could be more. Another on a Darlie forum that I post on...so two that I know of.

[rashomon]

Originally posted by cami

One on IMDB that I know of for sure--could be more. Another on a Darlie forum that I post on...so two that I know of.
Cami, what does 'IMDB' mean? 'One MacDonald Board'?

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by rashomon

Cami, what does 'IMDB' mean? 'One MacDonald Board'?
i know IMDB as the Internet Movie Database but not sure how that would apply here lol...



IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/)

[realityaddict06]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle

i know IMDB as the Internet Movie Database but not sure how that would apply here lol...



IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/)


He's actually got two thread's on IMDB, one under his name, and one under the listing for the movie of Fatal Vision. I've seen threads on both posting links to the dna results, but not sure many go and click the links to see the info.

[rashomon]

Originally posted by realityaddict06



He's actually got two thread's on IMDB, one under his name, and one under the listing for the movie of Fatal Vision. I've seen threads on both posting links to the dna results, but not sure many go and click the links to see the info.

Realityaddict and Stacy: thanks for the info!

[byn63]

Originally posted by rashomon


Realityaddict and Stacy: thanks for the info!

thanks for the info!

we know that SPURS changed her mind!

anyone got ideas for a name for the macalite's new dance? How about:

The :chicken: II?

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by realityaddict06



He's actually got two thread's on IMDB, one under his name, and one under the listing for the movie of Fatal Vision. I've seen threads on both posting links to the dna results, but not sure many go and click the links to see the info.

thanks reality! i had no idea there were message boards there lol!

and yqw rash! :)

[realityaddict06]

Originally posted by byn63


thanks for the info!

we know that SPURS changed her mind!

anyone got ideas for a name for the macalite's new dance? How about:

The :chicken: II?


Or maybe to the tune of the limbo...the "limbhair"

[Bunny2]

Speaking of dances, watch poor Beasley's mind dancing around Blackburn's questions when asked about the alleged incident where Beasley supposedly held the Stoeckley group and then released them:

BLACKBURN: Did you ever consider arresting them?

BEASLEY: I did--if I had--at Fort Bragg--if I had had a reason--I had no reason, but I would--if they would--

BLACKBURN (Interposing): At the time you held them you had no reason to arrest them, is that correct?

BEASLEY: No, sir; I had no reason.

A sad case, Beasley. My heart goes out to him.

I'd also forgotten (if I ever knew it) that Red Underhill says Stoeckley told him that MacDonald knew Greg Mitchell before the murders. HA. Yet one more thing to add to "The Mac Supporter's Guide to Things to Ignore About Stoeckley." :tongue:

[Bunny2]

DNA testin' could be used real effectively t'furda' demonstrate Jeffrey MacDonald's innocence. What it is, Mama! One simple illustrashun makes dis point. As noted above, crime scene investigato's found in de beddin' in de masta' bedroom uh de MacDonald crib some 'brown body fro uh Caucasian o'igin' which, acco'din' t'de guv'ment's own lab 'esaminers, appears t'gots' been 'fo'cibly removed' and 'appears t'gots' some piece uh skin tissue attached t'de basal area uh de fro.' If dis fro and piece uh skin wuz subjected t'DNA testin', and wuz such testin' t'result in some determinashun dat dis item dun did not o'iginate fum eida' Jeffrey MacDonald, his mama, o' his daughters, it would be highly puh'suasive evidence uh MacDonald's innocence, fo' dere be little, if any, possibility dat dis fro and skin found deir way into de beddin' in de masta' bedroom oda' dan as some result uh a struggle between de victims and da damn sucka's who committed da damn murders.

(hey, don't blame me; it's all Hotwater's fault.)

:lol:

[Bunny2]

Off-topic, but after seeing Hotwater's link I couldn't resist...

Slow loading, depending on the web page you're visiting, but pretty funny:

http://www.psyclops.com/wubbler/

Try it with www.themacdonaldcase.org and see Mac's site in a way you may wish you never had. Warning: Stay away from "Skinhead" if you object to dirty words. :)

I just ran this page through it, using Redneck...YOU GUYS ALL LOOK HILARIOUS!

http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=7939016#post7939016

Hotwater
Supuh Moderator

Registered: Jun 2005
Locashun:
Posts: 100
Swedish Chef Translator
Ah dona know if this'n gots ta help or hinduh thar dang discussion but here: Chef/Jive/ValSpeak/PigLatin Translator

Have Fun!

--Hh20


Spamela
Member

Registered: Mar 2006
Locashun:
Posts: 22
Re: Swedish Chef Translator

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted bar Hotwatuh
Ah dona know if this'n gots ta help or hinduh thar dang discussion but here: Chef/Jive/ValSpeak/PigLatin Translator

Have Fun!

--Hh20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



OMG--What ah *****in' site! Thanks Hh20!




minischnauzer
Member

Registered: Mar 2006
Locashun: Albemarle, NC
Posts: 2

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted bar stinkerbelle
Dizzle now pass thar dang glock Anotha dogg house producshun.! y'all solved tha case yeah yeah baby! everyone am ah liar, Snoop heffnuh mixed n'all ah little bit uv doggy flint! ah liar, i tizzle you, ah liar n'all thar dang S-N-double-O-P! ! jeffy posuh macmurda am tha mizzle shiznit dogg on tha planet fo shizzle!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Stinkygirl, whatevuh you're takin', Leroy! Ah need some, Leroy! And maw daughtuh would like ah copy uv y'alls new CD when thut thar thar am re-leased please, hot damn! Ah kin just huh huh little Mitsubishi Eclipse boomin' now!

:lol:

[stinkerbelle]

omg i'm literally LOL at the "leroy" bit in the above post. how freakin funny!

i'll have to try it with mac's site, what fun!

[realityaddict06]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle
omg i'm literally LOL at the "leroy" bit in the above post. how freakin funny!

i'll have to try it with mac's site, what fun!


This is my favorite one...go here: http://rinkworks.com/dialect/

and then run the update letter from mac's site through the elmer fudd-izer!..I would post it here, but not sure if that's kosher to put someone else's words here unsanctioned. I nearly fell off my chair laughing when I tried it though! :D
I really like all these links, actually had to start a "dialectizer's" folder in my favorites!!!

[byn63]

Originally posted by realityaddict06



This is my favorite one...go here: http://rinkworks.com/dialect/

and then run the update letter from mac's site through the elmer fudd-izer!..I would post it here, but not sure if that's kosher to put someone else's words here unsanctioned. I nearly fell off my chair laughing when I tried it though! :D
I really like all these links, actually had to start a "dialectizer's" folder in my favorites!!!

ya know Elmer Fudd-izering the update letter was too hilarious! Of course, if Mrs. Inmate didn't have the lispy wispy voice that I could hear speaking in "Fudd" and reading the Update Letter out loud it would only be HALF as funny. I may have to start a dialectizer in my favs too!:lol:

[barskin&co.]

No? Maybe that seemed redundant, but here goes

April 2006

Dear Friends 'n Supportehs:


April has been a biddy mond, 'n webuh are happy t' final habe an update f' you, includigg relatid documins. As many of you know, uh uh uh uh uh uh, webuh re heaby on de help of bolunteehs, duuhhhh, 'n the, ERRRR, sehbices of our webuhb designehs, duuhhhh, Bill Bakeh of Bakedmedia.com 'n Shawn Potteh, are best utilizid when webuh can probide as much inf'mashun as posstiggle all at oss. Webuh hope you'll habe a chass t' look drough de new inf'mashun posted.

Siss our last update, uh uh uh, de DNA results habe been receibid by de District Court Dguje (Dguje Dgames C, GEEEHEEHEEE.Fox) as webuhll as abbishunal documins from the, uhhh, defense 'n de gobehnmin. Webuh'be inclubed dese items in de DOCUMENTS seckion of the, uh, the website. Webuh look f'erd t' de Court's detehminashun regardigg what will transpire next, uh, wid annicipashun 'n optimism.

Webuh wudd like t' dank all of de many friends 'n supportehs who habe taken the, duh uhh, time t' write a note of support or make a donashun t' de Defense Fund in recent weebuhks. Bod f'ms of support are extreme baluaggle t' us as webuh continue on dis long-awaitid pad, 'n webuh are sissere grateful.

Last, webuh hope you will dgoin us in remembehigg de birdday of Kimbehley Kadryn MacDonald, uh uh uh uh, who wudd habe been 6 years old on April 18, 1970, dgust 2 monds affeh heh life endid so senseless. Kimbehley, de oldest of two adoraggle young sistehs, duuhhhh, wudd habe been 42 years old dis year. She was dear lobed, uh uh uh uh, 'n is profound missid by many, no matteh duh, how many years go by.

Webuh are hopeful dat dis is de year f' full bindicashun, which wudd help us honor de crushigg loss of Colette, uh uh uh, Kim 'n Kris, duuhhhh, while allowigg us t' start a new chappeh- hopeful one of hope, uh uh uh, radeh dan continued tragedy.

Dank you so much t' ebehyone f' lendigg support in so many ways.

Sissere,

Dgeff 'n Kadryn MacDonald

[byn63]

barskin - I did translate it to Moron - did you see any difference?

:beer: :shrug: :lol:

[JTF]

Many of you already know that I believe the bedding evidence is the most powerful piece of forensic evidence that points towards MacDonald's guilt. Lost in the hype of the DNA test results of the limb hair found in Colette's left hand was the body hair found on the blue bedsheet that matched Colette's DNA profile. For years, the MacDonald camp has exclaimed that this hair could be from an intruder suspect, torn out as Colette fought for her life. DNA test results of that body hair provided further proof that Jeffrey MacDonald transported Colette MacDonald from Kristen's room to the master bedroom. The hair had skin tissue adhering to it indicating that Jeff ripped the hair from Colette's body as they were grappling in the master bedroom. Jeff then transferred that body hair from his hand to the blue bedsheet. Whether Jeff was punching Colette in the face, grabbing a ribbon out of her hair or tearing a hair from her body, he showed her no mercy. I hope that Judge Fox responds in kind.

JTF.

[cami]

Originally posted by JTF
Whether Jeff was punching Colette in the face, grabbing a ribbon out of her hair or tearing a hair from her body, he showed her no mercy. I hope that Judge Fox responds in kind.

JTF.

Me too JTF, Me too!!!!!

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by cami


Me too JTF, Me too!!!!!

Add me to the list JTF!! I would give anything to see him talk himself out of this one. Moron!!

:rose: To Collette, Baby Boy MacDonald; Kristin and Kimmie ~ May you now finally Rest in Peace! :rose:

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by JTF
Lost in the hype of the DNA test results...was the body hair found on the blue bedsheet that matched Colette's DNA profile. For years, the MacDonald camp has exclaimed that this hair could be from an intruder suspect, torn out as Colette fought for her life.
It wasn't lost on me, JTF! It's the one thing from the defense that I chose to translate to Jive the other day:

"Here, DNA testing could be used very effectively to further demonstrate Jeffrey MacDonald's innocence. One simple illustration makes this point. As noted above, crime scene investigators found in the bedding in the master bedroom of the MacDonald home a 'brown body hair of Caucasian origin' which, according to the government's own lab examiners, appears to have been 'forcibly removed' and 'appears to have a piece of skin tissue attached to the basal area of the hair.' If this hair and piece of skin were subjected to DNA testing, and were such testing to result in a determination that this item did not originate from either Jeffrey MacDonald, his wife, or his daughters, it would be highly persuasive evidence of MacDonald's innocence, for there is little, if any, possibility that this hair and skin found their way into the bedding in the master bedroom other than as a result of a struggle between the victims and the persons who committed the murders."

[byn63]

Originally posted by Bunny2

It wasn't lost on me, JTF! It's the one thing from the defense that I chose to translate to Jive the other day:

"Here, DNA testing could be used very effectively to further demonstrate Jeffrey MacDonald's innocence. One simple illustration makes this point. As noted above, crime scene investigators found in the bedding in the master bedroom of the MacDonald home a 'brown body hair of Caucasian origin' which, according to the government's own lab examiners, appears to have been 'forcibly removed' and 'appears to have a piece of skin tissue attached to the basal area of the hair.' If this hair and piece of skin were subjected to DNA testing, and were such testing to result in a determination that this item did not originate from either Jeffrey MacDonald, his wife, or his daughters, it would be highly persuasive evidence of MacDonald's innocence, for there is little, if any, possibility that this hair and skin found their way into the bedding in the master bedroom other than as a result of a struggle between the victims and the persons who committed the murders."

AMEN! Bunny - couldn't have said it better! Excellent post.

JTF - add me to the list too!:patriot:

[rashomon]

[i]Originally posted by Bunny2

As noted above, crime scene investigators found in the bedding in the master bedroom of the MacDonald home a 'brown body hair of Caucasian origin' which, according to the government's own lab examiners, appears to have been 'forcibly removed' and 'appears to have a piece of skin tissue attached to the basal area of the hair.'
And when you think about the ballyhoo the Mac camp always used to make about "the whole MacDonald family being blond".
But it backfired: Colette's body hair was brown (and Stombaugh had also found a brown head hair dyed blond belonging to her), Kim's hair is listed as 'auburn' in the death certificate, and even in FJ itself as 'brown'.
JMD's E-5 limb hair was brown, and Glisson in her lab note even wrote his head hair was 'too black' in comparison to that limb hair.

Does Kathryn still recommend reading Fatal Justice to people who e-mail the Mac camp? :D

[Rockford]

Got a question and was wondering if anyone had any theories on this aspect of the case.

I am RE-reading "Fatal Vision" and this is the area I can't understand.

When Kassab started to suspect MacDonald and went to the apartment in Ft. Bragg? McGinniss writes, "with the permission of the current tenants, Kassab lay on a bed in what had been the bedroom of the sixteen-year-old babysitter, directly above the MacDonald living room. Pruett and Keanrs carried on a conversation in normal tones. Kassabl could CLEALY hear the sounds.

If this is the case, how do ANY of you suppose that nobody heard Colette SCREAMING or Kim? I know JTF and Bunny2 both have said that the tenants upstairs heard Colette YELLING, but why not screaming? And yelling in anger. Not fear, but anger, correct?

Did anyone hear Kimmy scream? Colette fought for her LIFE...how could this be possible that nobody heard her screaming for help or screaming at MacDonald?

Any ideas?

[byn63]

The neighboring apartment was only above a portion of the Mac apartment. I believe the reasons that noone heard yelling is:

1) most of the tenants asleep
2) the babysitters bedroom was above the living room
3) acustical anomalies

and since Mac was the soul criminal actor there wasn't conversations, and once the blow to Kimmie was struck she'd have been in a coma. No intruders - no fight in living room - no reason for neighbors to hear anything.

[Rockford]

Originally posted by byn63
The neighboring apartment was only above a portion of the Mac apartment. I believe the reasons that noone heard yelling is:

1) most of the tenants asleep
2) the babysitters bedroom was above the living room
3) acustical anomalies

and since Mac was the soul criminal actor there wasn't conversations, and once the blow to Kimmie was struck she'd have been in a coma. No intruders - no fight in living room - no reason for neighbors to hear anything.

oh trust me, I know this, as I have been following this case for a long time, Byn. Not quite as long as JTF, but nevertheless, long enough and NEVER had a doubt in my mind the guy was guilty.

So what room was directly above the MacDonald bedroom? Anyone know?

This question really bothers me, as even if these people were asleep, and we all know how much of a struggle Colette put up, WHY didn't anyone hear Colette's fear as opposed to somebody hearing the anger in Colette's voice that night?

I can't imagine that Colette never screamed! And I do believe that Kimmy yelled out, "Daddy, Daddy, Daddy"

Kassab makes it very clear in McGinness' book that he can clearly hear sounds. I would imagine that LATE in the night, as these murders occured, that somebody upstairs had to hear struggle sounds or something.

I remember seeing the 3-D photos that Bunny2 created, but was there a layout for the upstairs too?

[Spamela]

Rockford,
The three bedrooms of the bottom apartment (MacDonald's) did not have rooms about them. There is a one story section of the apartments, which contained the bedrooms. Kind of odd to build it that way, as it is more economical, once you have a foundation, to keep building the same number of rooms on each floor. But, hey, it was the army.

I think the fight between Colette and Inmate was fast. I believe she was knocked out fairly quickly. We know she got a few strikes in, but once he got a hold of the club and hit her in the head, she would have gone down. When she came to, and went to Kristen's room, to find her dead, she must have been in a semi-stunned state, and then Inmate beat her again.

The rage and butality of the crime just confirms it was Inmate. How could stangers have found the anger to the three females in the house and let Jeffy walk away with a boo-boo?

[Rockford]

oh I need no convincing, Spammy.

So what you are saying is that were NO ROOMS directly ABOVE MacDonald's bedroom?

That the apartment above MacDonalds' had a different layout? If this is what you are saying, then I can see why nobody heard what I can imagine were noises such as yelling or thumping, (bodies falling; perhaps landing on the chair that was in the MacDonald bedroom) and perhaps Colette was able to yell out a stifled scream, but not loud enough to have been heard.

Only the argument which preceded the murders. Or should I say, Colette's loud voice in the course of the argument.

How sad. If the layout would have been the same as the MacDonald's, then this case MAY not have been dragged out for so long before Inmate wound up in prison.

Thanks, Byn, and Spammy.

One more question. Has anyone heard when Christina Masewicz's book will be published?

TIA

Rockford

[cami]

Originally posted by Rockford
oh I need no convincing, Spammy.

So what you are saying is that were NO ROOMS directly ABOVE MacDonald's bedroom?

That the apartment above MacDonalds' had a different layout? If this is what you are saying, then I can see why nobody heard what I can imagine were noises such as yelling or thumping, (bodies falling; perhaps landing on the chair that was in the MacDonald bedroom) and perhaps Colette was able to yell out a stifled scream, but not loud enough to have been heard.

Only the argument which preceded the murders. Or should I say, Colette's loud voice in the course of the argument.

How sad. If the layout would have been the same as the MacDonald's, then this case MAY not have been dragged out for so long before Inmate wound up in prison.

Thanks, Byn, and Spammy.

One more question. Has anyone heard when Christina Masewicz's book will be published?

TIA

Rockford


Yes, Rockford, there were no rooms above the MacDonald bedrooms. If you look at the photo in Fatal Vision,you notice the wing that juts out to the right...follow the windows......those are the bedrooms. The babysitter's bedroom was above the living room. When you enter the neighbours, you would have to go upstairs from the front door to get to the bedrooms so yes the layouts were different.

I agree had they not been, there might be no question of his guilt.


Take a look at these photos (http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/cp-exterior_01.html)


See photo four... gives you an idea of what I mean. Note the living room window of the MacDonald apt. that is highlited in red, you see the window above it, that was the babysitter's bedroom. YOu can see it more clearly in Photo 2. You can see the wing to the right, that was Kris's bedroom I believe.

Also, in photo 5, you can just see the wing where the MacDonald bedrooms were.

[cami]

Originally posted by cami



Yes, Rockford, there were no rooms above the MacDonald bedrooms. If you look at the photo in Fatal Vision,you notice the wing that juts out to the right...follow the windows......those are the bedrooms. The babysitter's bedroom was above the living room. When you enter the neighbours, you would have to go upstairs from the front door to get to the bedrooms so yes the layouts were different.

I agree had they not been, there might be no question of his guilt.


Take a look at these photos (http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/cp-exterior_01.html)


See photo four... gives you an idea of what I mean. Note the living room window of the MacDonald apt. that is highlited in red, you see the window above it, that was the babysitter's bedroom. YOu can see it more clearly in Photo 2. You can see the wing to the right, that was Kris's bedroom I believe.

Also, in photo 5, you can just see the wing where the MacDonald bedrooms were.

p.s. Rockford I forgot....you can also see the back of the apt on that photo page. The utility room door, etc. confirming there was nothing above the MacDonald's utility room and bedroom.

I am a bit confused by the red outline of the other door and windows back there but I think that is the neighbours. Does anyone know where the kitchen entrance was?

Also, in one of those photos you can clearly see a CSI with a pipe in his mouth...burnt match in one of the bedrooms maybe eh Cappy?

[Rockford]

REALLY strange layouts! So let me get this correct. There are two adjoining doors....almost looks like what is called today coach homes or a duplex.

One door was for one family while the other door was for an apartment that went upstairs?

Another part I got to in the book was Mildred Kassab who, when testified before the grand jury, talked about Colette seeming to be not herself during the Christmas before the murders. That inmate showed another side of himself to Mrs. Kassab that she had never seen before and Colette asking her mother to withhold her criticism of Inmate when Inmate invited neighbors over shortly before Colette was to serve X-mas dinner.

Do all of you remember in the book where Mildred finally sees another side of Inmate? When Mildred couldn't hold back her anger any longer and said something to Jeff, after the guest had left, who then threw back the kitchen chair and stormed out of the room? Colette shed some tears, and the kids .....and I remember this, Mildred said, were unusually quiet. As though they had witnessed arguments many times before this.

One last question. In the photos, there seems to be a much lower building next to the MacDonald apartment. Does anyone know what this was?
Could this have been smaller sized apartments? If so, seems to me they would have shared a common wall.

Also.....Inmate testified that both Colette AND Kim "were both screaming." yet, these walls seemed to be NOT made out of plaster (which would would have made being able to clearly hearing loud sounds impossible.....(but not improbable) versus drywall, which would make any kind of noise, audible.

It makes you wonder what Colette meant when the upstairs neighbor testified to hearing Colette yelling, "what do you think I'm going to do? Stand by.......If you touch so much as either child's hair, I'll kill you!"

Here is a neighbor and her daughter who both testified that they never heard Colette and Inmate so much as argue......but on this night, the neighbor testifies to listening to Colette utter these words.

Makes you wonder why whether she nor her husband went downstairs to ask if everything was ok, since she did not testify to hearing Inmate speak.

[gmetzerious]

The neighbor said she thought she heard Colette said words similar to those. She said it might not have been exactly that but what she could remember from being woke from a sleep was something to that affect. She couldn't say that was exact.

I believe jeff was telling the truth when he said Colette and Kimmy were screaming and that kimmy screamed DADDY DADDY but he twisted the words around to fit intruders instead of him killing them. Colette probably said JEFF JEFF WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME.

I myself think this wasn't just a spur of the moment thing that happened. I think Jeff had grown increasingly unhappy with the married and fatherhood. I think there were probably many nights he probably thought how he could get out of the situation he was in. I think he took on many jobs just to stay away or have those extra jobs to use as alibi's for his extra marrital affairs. I think when Colette got pregnant again his unhappiness and stress increased.

I think that night Colette stood up to him. I dont know if she hit him with the hairbrush first or he hit her and she retaliated with the hairbrush. But I think at that point all the stress of being married and having to deal with fatherhood came to a head.

I dont think it was just a split second thing that happened. It was an accumulation of resentment about having to get married and unhappiness. I think if inmate was truly happy it would have never happened

[realityaddict06]

Originally posted by cami


I am a bit confused by the red outline of the other door and windows back there but I think that is the neighbours. Does anyone know where the kitchen entrance was?


Hi cami, If i'm not mistaken,the door you are looking at that is within the red outline IS the kitchen door. The door next to the one outlined is the neighbor's back entrance. Their two "backdoors" have the trashcans between them. You can't clearly see the upstairs neighbors door in the picture because of where the guy is on the sidewalk, but you can see the awning over their door. His body kind of makes the neighbor's back door look more like a window, but it's a door. http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/crime005.html

A better view is this one from the "exterior fly-by" link of the back of the building. The door at the far end is the utility room door, then on the near end where there are two doors, the macdonald kitchen door and the upstairs neighbors back door are shown with the trash cans between them.
http://www.azwest.net/c&j/html/cj000154.html

The better view of the back is this one which shows a longer view of the back of the building. The drainpipe shown more clearly in the closer-up view is the "dividing line" between the two sets of apartments in the building. In this view you can also see the drainpipe but not as clearly. The utility room door for the other set of apartments is not shown in this view.
http://www.azwest.net/c&j/html/cj000153.html

THis link shows where in the kitchen the door was in the macdonald apartment. Unfortunately there are no good pictures showing the kitchen door from inside the apartment, that I can find. The only one that shows where the door is located is at this link.
http://www.azwest.net/c&j/html/cj000185-1.html

[cami]

One last question. In the photos, there seems to be a much lower building next to the MacDonald apartment. Does anyone know what this was?

I believe you mean the MacDonald bedrooms. The MacDonald and Kalin's front doors are side by side.

The outline in red includes the Kalin apt., their livingroom was downstairs, bedrooms upstairs. Only the one window on the right in that photo is MacDonald's...the living room.

[realityaddict06]

Originally posted by Rockford


One last question. In the photos, there seems to be a much lower building next to the MacDonald apartment. Does anyone know what this was?
Could this have been smaller sized apartments?


Rockford, if this is the building you are speaking about, http://www.azwest.net/c&j/html/cj000153.html

that short building next to the macdonald apartment building looks to me like a two-family duplex probably where a Major's or Lt Col's family would be housed. Full Col's would probably be housed in single family units. I'm basing this supposition on my lifetime of living on just about every kind of military base in the states and overseas! The higher in rank you go on most army bases, the larger and more private the quarters are. There are exceptions to that, but this is generally how it went when it comes to military housing.

Here is a link to the way the buildings were laid out in a kind of "u" formation.

http://www.azwest.net/c&j/html/cj000146.html

[Bunny2]

A few weeks ago SMAGE provided me with some photos taken April 3, 2006 of the 544 Castle Drive and Corregidor Courts area and granted permission for a web page to be created to display those. The photos include the residences of MacDonald (now 544 and 546 Castle Dr.), Pendlyshok, Snyder, Milne and Casper, and Google Earth Imagery aerial views:

http://www.azwest.net/c&j/html/smage.html

[Rockford]

Thanks to everyone who posted. It's helped a lot.

As to the exact words that Colette used that night, my thought was why neither this woman, nor a family member went downstairs to see if everything was ok. She never says she heard MacDonald's voice, so you would think she would have been concerned for Coletter, but I also know a lot of people do not like to get involved.

[cami]

Originally posted by realityaddict06


Rockford, if this is the building you are speaking about, http://www.azwest.net/c&j/html/cj000153.html

that short building next to the macdonald apartment building looks to me like a two-family duplex probably where a Major's or Lt Col's family would be housed. Full Col's would probably be housed in single family units. I'm basing this supposition on my lifetime of living on just about every kind of military base in the states and overseas! The higher in rank you go on most army bases, the larger and more private the quarters are. There are exceptions to that, but this is generally how it went when it comes to military housing.

Here is a link to the way the buildings were laid out in a kind of "u" formation.

http://www.azwest.net/c&j/html/cj000146.html

Oh now I see what Rockford was talking about...thanks RA, I have seen them before but didn't think anything of that small building.

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by Bunny2
A few weeks ago SMAGE provided me with some photos taken April 3, 2006 of the 544 Castle Drive and Corregidor Courts area and granted permission for a web page to be created to display those. The photos include the residences of MacDonald (now 544 and 546 Castle Dr.), Pendlyshok, Snyder, Milne and Casper, and Google Earth Imagery aerial views:

http://www.azwest.net/c&j/html/smage.html

thanks so much to both you and SMAGE. the photos really help (me, at least, a very visual person) put things in perspective. the pendlyshock's apt. was much closer than i realized. and the milne apt was neither "across the street" as FJ implied, nor far far away as the maps make it look. the snyder apartment is quite far from 544 and interesting that it's sort of around a corner. again, thanks!

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by gmetzerious
The neighbor said she thought she heard Colette said words similar to those. She said it might not have been exactly that but what she could remember from being woke from a sleep was something to that affect. She couldn't say that was exact.

I believe jeff was telling the truth when he said Colette and Kimmy were screaming and that kimmy screamed DADDY DADDY but he twisted the words around to fit intruders instead of him killing them. Colette probably said JEFF JEFF WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME.

I myself think this wasn't just a spur of the moment thing that happened. I think Jeff had grown increasingly unhappy with the married and fatherhood. I think there were probably many nights he probably thought how he could get out of the situation he was in. I think he took on many jobs just to stay away or have those extra jobs to use as alibi's for his extra marrital affairs. I think when Colette got pregnant again his unhappiness and stress increased.

I think that night Colette stood up to him. I dont know if she hit him with the hairbrush first or he hit her and she retaliated with the hairbrush. But I think at that point all the stress of being married and having to deal with fatherhood came to a head.

I dont think it was just a split second thing that happened. It was an accumulation of resentment about having to get married and unhappiness. I think if inmate was truly happy it would have never happened

GR8 post. I completely agree. IMO, I don't think that JM was ever in love with Collette and certainly had no desire to marry her. But, she was pregnant and in those days you did the right thing by getting married. After that, he felt that he was stuck. Until that fateful night ... and then there was no turning back.

It just amazes me that this idiot moron, Princeton educated/Medical Doctor/Green Beret could possibly think that he could get away with this. Darlie Routier and Scott Peterson also come to mind.

JMO and MOO!!

:rose: For Collette, Kristin, Kimberly and Baby Boy MacDonald

:rose: For Damon and Devon

:rose: For Laci and Conner

[Rockford]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8
[B]

GR8 post. I completely agree. IMO, I don't think that JM was ever in love with Collette and certainly had no desire to marry her. But, she was pregnant and in those days you did the right thing by getting married. After that, he felt that he was stuck. Until that fateful night ... and then there was no turning back.

It just amazes me that this idiot moron, Princeton educated/Medical Doctor/Green Beret could possibly think that he could get away with this. Darlie Routier and Scott Peterson also come to mind.

JMO and MOO!!

I don't think he thought he'd get away with it from the beginning.....I really don't. The pathological liar in him regarding these murders, takes awhile to build up in the mind. He knew he murdered them in the beginning, and was going to try his darndest to save himself.

Do any of you remember in the book when he's told his family was fine? To calm Inmate down. He immediately asked to see them. I wonder if he thought....."hmm, I wonder if they were able to revive even just ONE of them?"

Do any of you remember WHY Colette would never have talked with her Mother about Jeff's affairs? Because Mildred testifed to having a deep opinion on men who ran around on their wives. For the longest time, I could never understand why Colette wouldn't have talked with her mother if nobody else, about her problems. Now I know why. She didn't want her mother to know she had married one of those men.

Just by reading halfway thru, you can tell MacDonald NEVER had any respect for Colette. NEVER. And it reflects years later when he "talks" in the "Fatal Vision" book. Talks about the cars he bought, the great money he was making in California, and enough women that I'm surprised he never contracted AIDS.

Well....he has MANY an hour to sit and reflect about the "good ol days" when he was single and carefree, because you know he's not thinking about his murdered family. I really believe that this man REALLY does not believe he murdered his family. He's told the lie so many times, that he truly believes his lies.

[gmetzerious]

I believed he thought the Army were idiots and he was way smarter. The fact he was a good doctor would erase any doubt of his innocence.

I think felt he was one step away from being GOD and who wouldn't believe what God said.

[byn63]

I believe Inmate KNOWS darn good and well that he slaughtered his family. Although, I also believe that he thinks IT IS ALL COLETTE's FAULT! "if Colette had never gone and gotten pregnant, then NONE of this would ever have happened."

In Inmate's own mind he probably thinks along the lines of: "I was just poking fun, and SHE took it seriously". Like a lot of narcissistic animals, Inmate cannot and will not accept blame for his actions.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by Rockford
I really believe that this man REALLY does not believe he murdered his family. He's told the lie so many times, that he truly believes his lies.Good post, Rockford, but I have to disagree with the last couple of sentences. If he really thought he didn't commit the crimes, he wouldn't have any consciousness of guilt. But throughout the years following the murders, he's repeatedly demonstrated that he does have a consciousness of his guilt, including lying and trying to make his stories fit the evidence as he learned of it.

There's not a doubt in my mind that Mac knows he murdered his family. He knew it before MPs arrived, he knew it at the Article 32 and the grand jury and the trial, and he knows it still today. His enormous ego will never let him admit it, that's all. He'd rather die in prison than admit to his crimes.

[Bunny2]

Originally posted by gmetzerious
I believed he thought the Army were idiots and he was way smarter. The fact he was a good doctor would erase any doubt of his innocence.

I think felt he was one step away from being GOD and who wouldn't believe what God said.Welcome, gmetzerious - nice to see you here!

[Rockford]

[ He'd rather die in prison than admit to his crimes. [/B][/QUOTE]

which you know will happen. No deathbed confessions will ever come from MacDonald.

IMHO, IF Mildred Kassab had told Colette to come home when Colette had asked, I believe Colette would have told Mildred.

I wonder......I really wonder if MacDonald knew that Colette kept things to herself and didn't tell her mother what she suspected: that Inmate had cheated and was continuing to do so.

IF Colette had spoken about her doubts to her mother, you know that Fred and Mildred Kassab would have suspected Inmate from day one.

I know a lot of people feel there was no known motive in this case, but I STRONGLY disagree. MacDonald wanted OUT of his marriage and his reponsibilities.....as so many other recent murder cases have shown time and time again as a motive.