Cash in the Car [Archive] - Crime Library Message Boards

tarabull

11-20-2005, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by bred
It is odd...for a lowly paid teacher(I am one, too). Her salary might have reached $30,000 if she began teaching right after graduation.

Can anyone tell me what kind of car she drove - I've provided a link that includes photos of her white car - just not sure of the year, make, model - perhaps a Honda - anybody??? Regardless, IMO, it is a nice and rather new car for a lowly paid teacher - no??? what do you guys think? If I consider the car she's driving, I'm feel $300 is likely less than her car payment (of course this is just my opinion)

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/tara_grinstead/photo_1.html?curPage=2

fsbiii

11-20-2005, 08:19 PM

Her car is a Mistubishi 3000GT, I'm pretty sure. Don't know the year model.

11-20-2005, 10:51 PM

fsbiii, you are correct on the model and make of Tara's car. I don't recall the year of it though.

NancynNC

11-20-2005, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by Babes

Thats why am leaning on to someone that she knows. :(
But still that person who took her and if he/she really used her car then he/she got a big nerve thinking no one will actually see him when she/he return the car.

I wish the GBI would drop us just one crumb, if there was any evidence in the car. If that car is involved, it was someone she knew. Maybe they felt some safety bringing it back before daylight.

NancynNC

11-20-2005, 11:44 PM

I do not know the year either. Looks great and sort of new. I found this ....

This car is considered to be one of the best performing sports cars for the price. Introduced in the early 90's, the 3000 GT ranges in price from $30,000 all the way up to $65,000

Elle_Woods

11-21-2005, 03:25 AM

Well, again, she had been teaching for several years there and had a master's degree. Plus, it sounds like she was in-training to be a school administrator and served as co-assistant principal. Her salary would have undoubtedly been hire than an entry level teacher or your general teacher level salary. Who knows if she still had a trust fund or whatever else too.

longcoolwoman

11-21-2005, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by NancynNC

I wish the GBI would drop us just one crumb, if there was any evidence in the car. If that car is involved, it was someone she knew. Maybe they felt some safety bringing it back before daylight.

Why would someone bring her car back? What would be the point? Why risk being seen when he/she could just dump it somewhere? And how did they then get away once they left the car at her house? An accomplice? Sorry, but that scenario just doesn't make a bit of sense.

crazyhorse

11-21-2005, 10:03 AM

Maybe there are two people involved in TG's disappearence....

concernedperson

11-21-2005, 06:01 PM

I still have this theory that someone called her late Saturday night for some sort of assistence. Car trouble? I don't know but it could be a reason for her having so much cash in the console....to aid a friend in need. Then things got out of hand from there. They would want her car returned home as not to cause suspicion for her absence on Sunday. It is a small town and one could walk to a parked car located a few blocks away.

fsbiii

11-21-2005, 06:35 PM

I don't think Tara's car was moved after it got home Saturday night. I don't know if she drove straight home from the Davis house, either, or if she met someone at some point and they might have drove, etc. Why it was unlocked and there was cash inside, we'll probably never know. I just don't think the car is involved with her disappearing.

They stopped making the 3000GT in 1999, so she may have bought it used or may have had it a while...

DavidNAtlanta

11-21-2005, 07:35 PM

Does anyone know if the driver's seat in TG's car was found moved back from a 5'2" or 5'3" driver height position? Also, money in an unlocked car could have been for someone to pickup. Rent? A loan repayment? Loan to a friend? etc. Was this money crisp from an ATM or bank?

Babes

11-22-2005, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by fsbiii
I don't think Tara's car was moved after it got home Saturday night. I don't know if she drove straight home from the Davis house, either, or if she met someone at some point and they might have drove, etc. Why it was unlocked and there was cash inside, we'll probably never know. I just don't think the car is involved with her disappearing.

They stopped making the 3000GT in 1999, so she may have bought it used or may have had it a while...

Hello fsbii.

Just questions bothering me...Where does Tara keep the purse and keys when she's about to sleep? On her closet? Anywhere in the room? Does she have a habit of putting a purse and car keys to a particular location?

the foreigner

12-01-2005, 01:45 AM

Hello everybody. I am a foreigner and do not know much about this case but what I could read on crimelibrary.com. Supposing that Tara was a victim of a foul play (many pieces of circumstantial evidence point to it) it doesn’t seem so strange to me that the perpetrator brought the car back to its carport instead of dumping it somewhere else. Let’s imagine that a determined perpetrator went to Tara’s house by his own car. Using hers to abduct her or to move her body, he had to get back to fetch his again. Dumping it afar, he would have had to get back hitchhiking or using public transport that is not safer than driving back. Someone seeing Tara’s car moving in the dead of the night would probably think that Tara herself was driving it. Even if the perpetrator went to Tara’s walking (and not by his car) he had to get back home anyway. Supposing his house not too far flung from Tara’s, driving back was the safer way to get home. Furthermore, as Concernedperson pointed out, the absence of the car might have accelerated the realization that something was amiss. On the other hand, even supposing that the car was not involved, three circumstances need an explanation anyway: the car was unlocked, the driver’s seat was moved back and there was a lot of cash inside. IMO a perpetrator, familiar with legal and scientific procedures, went to Tara’s house with a clear plan in his mind. I wrote “determined” to mean this and the presence of the glove (taking it for granted that it was found or seen before LE responded to Tara’s) and the lack or shortage of hard evidence seem to belie this knowledge or capability. Tara’s house might not be the crime scene, but almost certainly was an “argument scene”, as the clock, the necklace and the lamp shade seem to suggest.

IBC

12-01-2005, 11:35 AM

Why would Tara have $300.00 cash in a car's console? IMO most people don't ride around with more than a few dollars, mostly change, in a car.

Possibilities:

a. went through a drive-in ATM, didn't want to dig through purse, intended to put it in purse later.

b. someone repaid money, again just "stuffed it" in console.

c. owed someone money

d. intended to make a cash purchase

The first two, maybe three, should be easy for LE to verify. The last?

sophiafox

12-22-2005, 04:09 AM

Did LE check her account for a withdrawal of $300? I looked in all post and never saw that info so please enlighten me if someone knows if it was "her" cash. Of course LE is not saying much...

I have a thought, what if someone gave it to her for a reason; let’s say we look at things that cost around $300 dollars in GA. Something you would pay CASH for.

I live in Florida and abortions are around $350. NOT saying this is what the money was for but when I saw the amount I remembered seeing adverts for abortions here or in Alabama and it was around the 300ish amount. (don't know why that stuck in my mind as I have no need, but all things happen for a reason.

This could explain the over emotional state she had been in lately. It could explain why the $s were in cash. It could explain her leaving with someone and not telling anyone else. I'm sure she wouldn’t want that getting around the school or church.

I'm not even going to go into who would give her $300 dollars! Way to easy for me to get into trouble there! Would have to post in theories and speculation. HMMM maybe this should get moved there!?!?!

Now comes your chance. Does anyone around GA have more things that cost 300 dollars in that area?

IBC

12-22-2005, 05:02 PM

Your theory is interesting, except I believe it was stated that Tara was having her period (wastebasket).

bred

12-22-2005, 07:45 PM

I never read that!! Good, that means she wasn't PG...which I thought could have been a reason a certain someone didn't want her around anymore.

Luckys_Wife

12-22-2005, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by IBC
Your theory is interesting, except I believe it was stated that Tara was having her period (wastebasket).
keeping with this theory..with a little twist...is it possible that Tara told someone she was pregnant and the person gave her money for an abortion only to find out that night she really wasn't pregnant because she was on her period. This could make someone very angry, IMO. Let me just say- I don't know Tara or anyone else involved, this is just an attempt to explore different theorys as to what may have occured before, during and after her disappearence.

bred

12-23-2005, 06:43 AM

The "someone" I'm thinking of would be very happy to find out she wasn't PG. IMO

curious mom

12-23-2005, 08:22 AM

It could be possible that the $300 was money "donated" to Tara for doing hair and makeup for the girls that day. In our area, when there is a pageant, former beauty queens often help the girls with hair and makeup, for no charge, but it is often protocol to give a tip anyway.

bred

12-23-2005, 08:52 AM

Great thought! And the girls would have told LE that...oh, but wouldn't her sister have been told, too? And her sister would probably have told us that during one of her interviews.

muipeso

12-25-2005, 07:11 PM

I believe "the foreigner" has touched very close to the profile of the abductor. Someone very organized and with good skill at plans and executions on night missions who is very familiar with the area.

The best reason to abduct using Tara's car is when the forensics team searchs it they will find nothing in it but Tara. All the abductor needs to do is wear latex gloves and a uniform that dosent give off tell tale fibres. No forensic evidence except as left by Tara. And furthermore, dont go in the house either, make Tara meet you outside. cool moves

muipeso

12-25-2005, 07:42 PM

I consider the $cash in Tara's car to be irrelevant. Tara traveld some lonely back roads late at night from Ocilla to Waycross and to Valdosta. I consder the cash to be "emergency road hazard" money. Late at night where she was traveliing, credit cards are useless. I keep a similar amount of cash in my car for that very reason.

the foreigner

01-06-2006, 04:53 PM

Hi everybody, thanks Muipeso.
I read about the search by Trackers Global scheduled on Saturday and Sunday. Somewhere (but now I cannot finger the precise point) I read that this Organization is specialized in finding (mainly) living people. It would be wonderful to find Tara still alive; I would be happy and so, I think, the totality of the readers. Any possible lead must be followed and no stone has to be left unturned. However I think we must admit that the odds to find Tara alive are scarce. The idea expressed by Sophiafox and Luckys_wife about Tara’s PGcy, connected to her moral and religious convictions, would be a good explanation for her disappearance; but it seems to conflict with her state (flow/period). Furthermore you need money to live in our society. As far as I know, no Tara’s credit cards or similar have been used hitherto. Deciding to disappear why would Tara leave $ 300 behind, in her car? (And why not to use the car? Is hitchhiking or taking the train or the Greyhound more anonymous?). Of course there is the possibility that someone else is paying for her. Possible but not likely. IMO also suicide is unlikely. Tara’s religious belief and the fact that there is no hint for this stand against this possibility. People who commit suicide generally do not disappear; often they leave messages to their loved ones excusing themselves, explaining their reasons or even claiming that they were compelled to act that way. And then there is an indirect hint to foul play: Mrs Gattis, on the first day of investigation met Harper and reportedly asked him: “what did you do to my sister?” (Feature Story- Chapter Suspicious minds). Mrs Gattis may be wrong (about the person or even the fact in itself) but this event suggests that a very close to Tara person’s first idea is foul play. There is then the possibility of abduction (Tara may be alive and kept prisoner). In this case there must be a very organized perpetrator (or more than one) and a very strong motive. I couldn’t find any plausible. Eventually there is the possibility that Tara lost her memory or had an accident and ended up, unidentified, into some hospital. This would be really a long shot. IMO, foul play is the most likely reason for Tara’s disappearance. If tomorrow all this reasoning is proved a big nonsense, I’ll be the first person to rejoice.

BFD - v2.0

04-21-2006, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by longcoolwoman

Why would someone bring her car back? What would be the point? Why risk being seen when he/she could just dump it somewhere? And how did they then get away once they left the car at her house? An accomplice? Sorry, but that scenario just doesn't make a bit of sense.

A few scenarios come to mind.

1. The parked their vehicle somewhere close by. Chose not to take a chance of Tara's DNA being found in their vehicle, so disposed of her body by using her vehicle. (Brings a slight problem with leaving their vehicle behind; but the apt. complex would be a good place to park if they wanted to not stand out.)

2. Someone lives near the neighborhood and didn't need to worry about a vehicle. Just park the car back at her house and walk home.

I would think whoever is responsible for this didn't have a vehicle at Tara's house.

justthinking

04-21-2006, 02:55 PM

Was it determined thru DNA testing that Tara was actually menstruating or could the waste have been from the teenage girls visiting her house the day of the pageant? Do anyone know?

Atok

04-21-2006, 04:06 PM

Unless those samples or trash was sent for analysis, we won't know. No GBI analysis has been reported to the public that I am aware of.

I talked to a mom who was at Tara's that day and she didn't know if any of the girls were using sanitary products at that time and didn't exactly plan to ask.

So, no resolution on that front, leaving that detail unresolved from a public standpoint.

IBC

04-21-2006, 05:09 PM

We can only hope they were sent for analysis, but the way this case was handled from the start, I wouldn't be shocked if they weren't.

SallyG

04-21-2006, 07:05 PM

I think the money that was found in her car just might have a bit of significance. Especially in view of the fact that it seems someone else was in her car.

I am 5'4", and I never move my car seat from it's position. My husband, who is 6'5" sometimes gets in my car and pushes the seat back. It's a tight squeeze for him to get in, and once he's done driving the car, there is no way he can get the seat back to it's original position. So let's say someone else, a man, used her car that night. He would have pushed the seat back to drive, but when he got the car back, it would have probably not occurred to him to put it back to it's original position. Or it would have too awkward for him to get it back into position. The only other reason for the seat to have been pushed all the way back was if Tara was looking for something in the car, and pushed it back to get a good view under the seat. I've done this before and not bothered to put it back into position until the next time I drive it. If that was the scenario, it's possible that no one else was actually in her car that night.

Also, the money that was found in the console. There could have been a number of reasons she had money in there. One that stands out to me is something I was told many years ago while managing a medical office. We were always told to leave at least $100 in the cash box at night. If someone broke in and found money, they would probably go ahead and leave with it. If they found nothing, they were more likely to trash the office looking for something valuable. Tara might have felt that if someone broke into her car and found a nice amount of money, they would take it and leave and not mess up her car.

However, let's say that someone DID use her car that night. A stranger would have been much more likely to ransack the car in search of valuables. Someone known to her...probably not.

Babes

04-21-2006, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0

A few scenarios come to mind.

1. The parked their vehicle somewhere close by. Chose not to take a chance of Tara's DNA being found in their vehicle, so disposed of her body by using her vehicle. (Brings a slight problem with leaving their vehicle behind; but the apt. complex would be a good place to park if they wanted to not stand out.)

2. Someone lives near the neighborhood and didn't need to worry about a vehicle. Just park the car back at her house and walk home.

I would think whoever is responsible for this didn't have a vehicle at Tara's house.

I agree with these scenarios if someone else drove her car that time.

BFD - v2.0

04-21-2006, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by Babes

I agree with these scenarios if someone else drove her car that time.

Either way it goes (in my opinion) there is another person involved. Honestly the fact of whether they drove it or not isn't the main problem. (Though determining that could lead us down another path that could possibly provide valuable answers)

The fact the car was unlocked, the seat was moved back and that the car keys are missing lead to only a few things occurring.

1. Someone staged it to make it look like a stranger had driven her car.

2. Someone was in the car looking for something and chose not to lock the car door. Since locking the car door was Tara's habit that branches off to two other scenarios:
A) She was unable to lock the door because she was abducted/overpowered while looking under the seat for whatever it was she was looking for.
B) It was a person that isn't in the habit of locking their car door that was last in the vehicle.

3. Someone taller than Tara drove the car to her driveway.

Now, since Tara's cell phone was in the cradle, she wasn't planning on going out in the car, (at least we've been told she takes her cell phone everywhere). It's most likely she had no intentions of leaving her home when (if) she went out to the car.

If she had went to go meet someone, she would have taken her cell phone in my opinion.

Other clues that we don't know or haven't heard are just little things to think about when first going into the car. Was the emergency brake engaged? Ashtray used? Radio station. Radio on? Cigarette lighter used? Trip odometer used? OBD-II information downloaded and analyzed?

The car could provide valuable information. I'm sure the GBI are very competent in this arena, if not they'll ask for assistance from experts that will assist them.

But some of those answers could help us understand a little better as to what might have happened to Tara.

Babes

04-21-2006, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0
[B]

Either way it goes (in my opinion) there is another person involved. Honestly the fact of whether they drove it or not isn't the main problem. (Though determining that could lead us down another path that could possibly provide valuable answers)

The fact the car was unlocked, the seat was moved back and that the car keys are missing lead to only a few things occurring.

1. Someone staged it to make it look like a stranger had driven her car.

If they are trying to stage a scene that a stranger drove it then why put the car back at Tara's driveway? Why not just leave the car somewhere? I think he drove back the car to the driveway because his house is possibly walking distance to Tara's house as well and he used Tara's car to come back home but he cannot park Tara's car in the neighborhood because anybody can see him. Or he parked his car near Tara's house but he needed to use Tara's car to dispose her so there will be no evidence on his own car. Or he doesnt want to carry Tara and passing on the front yard for the fear that someone could see him so he needed to use Tara's car and used the back door to enter Tara's car.

I think you are right that someone taller than Tara could drove her car but i think the car was not intentionally unlocked. The perp possibly tried to clean the car a little bit and possibly forget to lock the door. He possibly moved the seat back to make sure that he didnt leave anything in there. The cash in the car should be investigated also for prints and serial number but the money was returned to the family

concernedperson

04-21-2006, 10:21 PM

Like someone was sleeping if the car was noticed.

concernedperson

04-21-2006, 10:33 PM

Forensic exercises can pinpoint. In Atlanta, right now those squirrely emits from pine trees are dropping everywhere.Scientists can sight the days and weeks of emit as well as types of soil in certain locations.They use spores from certain trees to pinpoint a time. Therefore, if any evidence of a body is found there will be other specifics. The perp can't wipe away nature. They can only hope for less investigation.

clue

04-21-2006, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by longcoolwoman

Why would someone bring her car back? What would be the point? Why risk being seen when he/she could just dump it somewhere? And how did they then get away once they left the car at her house? An accomplice? Sorry, but that scenario just doesn't make a bit of sense.

As a hypothetical, the perpetrator's thought process may have been to dispose of the victim using the victim's car to avoid linking trace evidence to his/her vehicle. While looking in the victim's purse for the car key he/she may have realized that he/she left prints on items inside the purse, so the purse was taken. Then after disposing of the body he/she may have returned to clean up the crime scene. The latex glove was probably dropped leaving the crime scene. The perpetrator could have parked his/her vehicle nearby prior to entering the residence to avoid anyone seeing it at the victim's residence.

luvmy2labpups

04-22-2006, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by clue

As a hypothetical, the perpetrator's thought process may have been to dispose of the victim using the victim's car to avoid linking trace evidence to his/her vehicle. While looking in the victim's purse for the car key he/she may have realized that he/she left prints on items inside the purse, so the purse was taken. Then after disposing of the body he/she may have returned to clean up the crime scene. The latex glove was probably dropped leaving the crime scene. The perpetrator could have parked his/her vehicle nearby prior to entering the residence to avoid anyone seeing it at the victim's residence. Did this glove have any FE relating to Tara?

concernedperson

04-22-2006, 07:50 AM

Evidence on the glove or tires has not been released to the public. So, yea or nay, we won't know until someone in LE lets us know.

luvmy2labpups

04-22-2006, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by concernedperson
Evidence on the glove or tires has not been released to the public. So, yea or nay, we won't know until someone in LE lets us know. That is so frustrating. There is so little information and a whole lot of "leaks". GRRRR

BFD - v2.0

04-22-2006, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by concernedperson
Evidence on the glove or tires has not been released to the public. So, yea or nay, we won't know until someone in LE lets us know.

I thought the neighbor washed the car at a local car wash?

baffled

04-22-2006, 10:04 AM

If Taras car has ON STAR (I think that is the name of it) would it be possible to determine her locations in her vehicle for time frame questioned. This applies to the POI also. If their vehicles are equipped with that service, can it be traced even after the amount of time that has passed?

BFD - v2.0

04-22-2006, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by baffled
If Taras car has ON STAR (I think that is the name of it) would it be possible to determine her locations in her vehicle for time frame questioned. This applies to the POI also. If their vehicles are equipped with that service, can it be traced even after the amount of time that has passed?

Her car wouldn't have Onstar. It's only factory installed and it wasn't available on her model car.

So far as getting information about other people's information, it would be difficult to do. It would be akin to getting a pen register on someone. There is a legal threshhold that must be met and at this time I don't see anything that would provide a valid legal argument to get that type of information from anybody associated with this case.

The only historical information I'm aware of that is kept for a period of time is the EDR module (crash data).

NancynNC

04-22-2006, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone
BFD -

What if her cell was dead and she knew it! Then the scenario includes whether she had a car charger for her phone right?

Normally I would agree she would grab the phone and out the door she goes. But this particular night she had been receiving phone calls for hours from young woman associated with that pageant and there was a post that her phone died while at the BBQ. OF course unsubstantiated.

So isn't one timeline to include the option that she left without her phone becuase it hadn't finished charging?

Just asking.

I think the phone was dead.

mooloo

04-23-2006, 02:17 PM

I thought the car was washed early on, by the neighbor, because someone told/asked him to wash it

Originally posted by fep

The car was washed several days after Tara went missing.
It has been posted GBI was at location early on. You would think samples were taken if there was dirt on tires before car was washed. GBI tells nothing which tells me they are keeping information sealed from public or they did nothing to collect evidence at scene. I think either one is a possibility.