Taylor did NOT have sex with Fawley... [Archive]

vedder

10-11-2005, 05:25 PM

I do not believe for ONE MINUTE that she would have sex with him.We have no proof of this and all we have is His word.Are you kidding me???? Of course he was going to say this,he wants to cover his *** because of DNA.....Yes she may have been a bit of a "wildchid" and there may be a slight inuendo(VERY slight,I had many girls in my bedroom and on my bed when in College that I did not sleep with...does not mean anything)
She liked the fact that he was a photographer(ALL pretty young women like to see themselves in pictures) She must have thought he was "nice" but felt sorry for his loser ***....remember she did not know many people...

Taylor was a VERY beautiful girl who could have had any guy she wanted,do you really think she would have giving her self to this guy??? I AM NOT BUYING IT..

As far as this whole"jailbait" thing goes,when I was in school some of the guys would call the Freshman girls who were not 18 yet "jailbait",not really a big deal, the girls just thought It was funny...
How I wish she would have never used it as her screen name,It just looks bad...

I have never been more upset,angry and heartbroken over a case in my entire life,We should of NEVER had to hear the name Taylor Behl......WHY... why...

th@tgirl1971

10-11-2005, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by vedder
I do not believe for ONE MINUTE that she would have sex with him.We have no proof of this and all we have is His word.Are you kidding me???? Of course he was going to say this,he wants to cover his *** because of DNA.....Yes she may have been a bit of a "wildchid" and there may be a slight inuendo(VERY slight,I had many girls in my bedroom and on my bed when in College that I did not sleep with...does not mean anything)
She liked the fact that he was a photographer(ALL pretty young women like to see themselves in pictures) She must have thought he was "nice" but felt sorry for his loser ***....remember she did not know many people...

Taylor was a VERY beautiful girl who could have had any guy she wanted,do you really think she would have giving her self to this guy??? I AM NOT BUYING IT..

As far as this whole"jailbait" thing goes,when I was in school some of the guys would call the Freshman girls who were not 18 yet "jailbait",not really a big deal, the girls just thought It was funny...
How I wish she would have never used it as her screen name,It just looks bad...

I have never been more upset,angry and heartbroken over a case in my entire life,We should of NEVER had to hear the name Taylor Behl......WHY... why...

No offense intended, but why would you think she wouldn't have sex with this guy? He obviously intrigued her somehow. She wasn't shy about her sexual experiences on her LJ. She even admitted to a homosexual experience. I don't believe you can look at a person and say, "She would NEVER sleep with HIM". Looks don't mean as much to some people as it does to others. Taylor saw something in BF that interested her. I'm just sorry she crossed his path. :(

jmo

BevAnn

10-11-2005, 05:43 PM

I think by her own admission, she had had sexual relations with him at some point. Did she have consensual sex with him THAT night - I highly doubt it. But I do believe she had tested the waters with him before.

Bev Ann

PMcOuntry

10-11-2005, 05:47 PM

I think at some point she did have sex w/him by consent. She liked Johnny Depp and he looked somewhat like him. She "liked" this guy at one point in time. She commented on one of her livejournal posts that she "climbed up into his bunk" or something like that, because she "was curious". She admits to not being a virgin in her online journal.

I think "his" story about having sex w/her that night, meant, he raped her. Unless she was really desperate or depressed, had just broken up w/her first "real boyfriend" as her mom put it, and decided to just "do it". Who knows.

I don't know why you'd think she "wouldn't". She could have been drunk, high, etc. Nobody knows, we probably never will.

As for the Jailbait thing, that is her online jounral nick, only backwards. She liked that name for some reason.

marabeth

10-11-2005, 05:58 PM

One friend of Taylor's say she did not do drugs or drink..She smoked cigarettes..

I have no idea if Taylor had ever had sex with Ben..I have only his sayso..She intimated curiosity by climbing into his bunk but I read no declaration by her that they had a sexual relationship.
perhaps I missed something..

The more I learn about Ben's relationships with women..the more creepy and unpredictable he sounds.

BFD - v2.0

10-11-2005, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by marabeth
One friend of Taylor's say she did not do drugs or drink..She smoked cigarettes..

I have no idea if Taylor had ever had sex with Ben..I have only his sayso..She intimated curiosity by climbing into his bunk but I read no declaration by her that they had a sexual relationship.
perhaps I missed something..

The more I learn about Ben's relationships with women..the more creepy and unpredictable he sounds.

I think the "bunk" statement might have been about pictures taken of Taylor in his "bunk".

It could go both ways, but Ben had photos that had the words Taylor and bunk in the title of them.

It could go either way.

:shrug:

Hey Paula

10-11-2005, 06:03 PM

The LiveJournal exchange between the two where BF wrote she climbed into his bunk, to which Taylor replied she was curious and to which BF replied he still was, suggests they did have sex.

IMO

PMcOuntry

10-11-2005, 06:05 PM

vedder

10-11-2005, 06:13 PM

Just because she found him somewhat interesting does not mean she slept with the guy.How many 17 year olds sleep with 38 year old guys???? This is just my opinion....

If she did sleep with him she must have told SOMEONE..a girlfriend,friend etc...someone must know. I wish someone would come forword with some info...

murdershewrote

10-11-2005, 06:18 PM

I remember one of her girlfriends say that Taylor did have sex with him (she had an affair, a fling) and Taylor's mom did acknowledge this as well.

vedder

10-11-2005, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula
The LiveJournal exchange between the two where BF wrote she climbed into his bunk, to which Taylor replied she was curious and to which BF replied he still was, suggests they did have sex.

IMO Like I said,I have had many girls on my bed that I did not sleep with....thats what you do in College,bum around peoples rooms....That statment means nothing....

If he did get to sleep with her,why would he still be "curious"

Just because she was on his bed DOES NOT suggest that they had sex.Im sure she was on a few guys beds since she started school...does that mean she slept with them too???

vedder

10-11-2005, 06:26 PM

Where did you hear this??? I have never heard the mother admit to this and I have been following this since day 1

vedder

10-11-2005, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by marabeth
One friend of Taylor's say she did not do drugs or drink..She smoked cigarettes..

I have no idea if Taylor had ever had sex with Ben..I have only his sayso..She intimated curiosity by climbing into his bunk but I read no declaration by her that they had a sexual relationship.
perhaps I missed something..

The more I learn about Ben's relationships with women..the more creepy and unpredictable he sounds. You are right,all we have is HIS sayso...He is trying to cover his ***...He is lying about everthing else, why would he not lie about this???

murdershewrote

10-11-2005, 06:38 PM

Vedder, I believe it was on the GVS show....Taylor's mom was asked and she said Taylor had had sex with Fawley...she may have gotten that info from Taylor's girlfriend, who I saw on TV several times making that statement. I was actually pretty shocked that her mom would come out and say that but I seem to recall she said it was clear that they had been involved sexually. I distinctly remember this because it gave me the creeps.

vedder

10-11-2005, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by murdershewrote
Vedder, I believe it was on the GVS show....Taylor's mom was asked and she said Taylor had had sex with Fawley...she may have gotten that info from Taylor's girlfriend, who I saw on TV several times making that statement. I was actually pretty shocked that her mom would come out and say that but I seem to recall she said it was clear that they had been involved sexually. I distinctly remember this because it gave me the creeps. I have never heard anyone confirm this....Even the media is now saying "by his own admission" Would they write that If her mother admitted this???

"Fawley is the 38-year-old amateur photographer many suspect of having had something to do with 17-year-old Taylor Behl's disappearance on September 5, 2005. He had, by his own admission, a sexual relationship with Taylor, and also saw her the night she vanished".......This was posted steves site today

I cant believe she would have slept with him...I just cant

BFD - v2.0

10-11-2005, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by vedder
*snipped*

I cant believe she would have slept with him...I just cant

No one is forcing you to believe that she did.

vedder

10-11-2005, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0

No one is forcing you to believe that she did. That was rhetorical but thanks man....

vedder

10-11-2005, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by FocusFactor

vedder, we don't have to make victims pure and virginal to keep them held up to praise or prayed for or cared for. Yes, I understand this....I just do not think their is enough proof and until I hear otherwise....I wont belive it...

10-11-2005, 07:18 PM

I interpreted Fawley's "I'm still curious" to mean that he hadn't had sex with her and was still interested.

But it could go either way. I'm more inclined to think that perhaps they did have sex once or twice, but that she recognized him for the freak that he was and said no. And the "no", coming on the heels of Erin's dumping him just proved to be too much for his narcissistic ego.

PMcOuntry

10-11-2005, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by murdershewrote
Vedder, I believe it was on the GVS show....Taylor's mom was asked and she said Taylor had had sex with Fawley...she may have gotten that info from Taylor's girlfriend, who I saw on TV several times making that statement. I was actually pretty shocked that her mom would come out and say that but I seem to recall she said it was clear that they had been involved sexually. I distinctly remember this because it gave me the creeps.

I was of the opinion that they were very, very close and may have shared such information. Her mother may have been "okay" w/that. No idea why but... you will also notice, she seemed to be obsessed w/sex (imo) and had hinted towards having "experimented" w/other girls. Maybe ALL teenagers are the obsessed w/sex, who knows, I'm out the loop on that one, lol.

PMcOuntry

10-11-2005, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by vedder
Yes, I understand this....I just do not think their is enough proof and until I hear otherwise....I wont belive it...

I don't think there will be anyway at this point to "verify" that fact or not, unless some of her clothing (ie her underwear) remained at the scene.

vedder

10-11-2005, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars
vedder, her best friend did say she had sex with him. Taylor told her she knew it was wrong, but she was doing it anyway.

i'll try to find the link too. She said it was "bad"...never metioned sex...she could have meant hanging out with someone who was so much older...(which would be bad for a 17 year old) I would love to see the link.....like I said ,I have been following since day and never heard anyone confirm this....

vedder

10-11-2005, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

she said wrong. i don't think simply hanging out with someone could be considered "wrong" unless she was doing something she felt deep down inside she shouldn't have been doing. "They weren't that close," said Keogh, now a college freshman in West Virginia. "She was like, 'I know it's bad,' but it wasn't anything at first."

10-11-2005, 07:34 PM

I disagree. Taylor's father knew about Fawley from their first trip to VCU. He said that he cautioned her then about the inappropriateness of a 38 year old man hanging with a 17 year old girl.

I would think that would be enough to color any relationship with Fawley as "wrong" in her estimation. And may, unfortunately, have been an impetus to continuing the relationship. Most teenagers are rebellious even when they know things are wrong.

trich

10-11-2005, 07:38 PM

Has it ever occured to anyone that not everything Taylor wrote
may have been true...It has been my experience that sometimes teenagers stretch the truth for some weird reason.
They want their classmates and friends to think they are women of the world etc.
That they are desired by men ...
Why I really don't know but I have seen girsl and guys lie about their sexual experiences to somehow seem cool ....

Having said that I think it is not very illtelligent thinking but I know it is done many times.

vedder

10-11-2005, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by Rowan Again
I disagree. Taylor's father knew about Fawley from their first trip to VCU. He said that he cautioned her then about the inappropriateness of a 38 year old man hanging with a 17 year old girl.

I would think that would be enough to color any relationship with Fawley as "wrong" in her estimation. And may, unfortunately, have been an impetus to continuing the relationship. Most teenagers are rebellious even when they know things are wrong. Thank You...A 17 year old hanging out with a 38 year old is "wrong" and "bad" and if she was still doing it after her father had warned her against it...That would make it "bad"....

10-11-2005, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by trich
Has it ever occured to anyone that not everything Taylor wrote
may have been true...It has been my experience that sometimes teenagers stretch the truth for some weird reason.
They want their classmates and friends to think they are women of the world etc.
That they are desired by men ...
Why I really don't know but I have seen girsl and guys lie about their sexual experiences to somehow seem cool ....

Having said that I think it is not very illtelligent thinking but I know it is done many times.

Another good point. I have a 20 year old daughter who posts on livejournal and other places. She and her friends have been doing so for many years (originally posted on Open Diary) .. I read surreptitiously. I can assure you that alot of the bravado expressed in some of their posts was just that .. bluff .. reputation .. ego.

In fact, it was the stuff they DIDN'T write about that worried me more.

vedder

10-11-2005, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

it could go both ways, but i interpret the facts differently. i don't see how someone could hang out another person as much as they did and not be "close". their spending so much time together, taking the trips, going to the farm, taking the pictures for her sites, etc., to me is, in and of itself, all innocous, vanilla behavior.

telling her friend they "it was wrong" because they weren't even "that close" just wouldn't make sense to me unless something more nefarious was going on. A minor hanging out with with a 38 year old man is "Innocous"????
Do you have a daughter?Would you approve of YOUR daughter hanging with someone who was almost 40?

vedder

10-11-2005, 08:51 PM

The relationship was apparently one Behl had not discussed with her mother but had talked about with Keough.

Keogh, now a college freshman in West Virginia.

"They weren't that close," said Keogh, now a college freshman in West Virginia. "She was like, 'I know it's bad,' but it wasn't anything at first"

"I know its bad"-She 17,He 38

"Wasn't anything....- The hanging out together

Still no links proving otherwise...

vedder

10-11-2005, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

i'm 22. i won't have a 17 y/o daughter for about 25 or 30 years, but still it's not really even about what i think. in context of how worldy this girl seemed (not necessarily saying that she was, but to me how she seemed), coupled with an obsessive fixation on sex, experimentation, and calling herself *JAILBAIT*, i hardly think someone like her (and i'm not casting aspersions on her, God rest her soul, but i'm just playing connect the dots) would consider simply hanging out and having pictures taken in the park "wrong" regardless of how old the guy was. according to you, they weren't doing anything other than taking tame, fully clothed, friendly pictures for her website, and hanging out at the farm. i think it would take something a little more juicy.. a little more sinister than that for her to consider herself as doing something "wrong".

she said they weren't that close. technically, they WERE close. that fact that they spent so much time together and enjoyed each other's company is indicitive of a close relationship. close, yes. close enough to be having clandestined, jailbait sex? no.. which is why she told her friend that they weren't that close to be doing what the were doing, and that "it" was wrong. How do you know they spent so much time together?From what I understand It was only a handful of times.Thats why her friend said"they were not close"...She had nothing better to do than hang out with old man BF????
Go ask your Mom if when you were 17 she thinks it would have been ok to hang out with a 38 year old woman.
And again,the word was "bad" not "wrong"

vedder

10-11-2005, 09:13 PM

"Even on the dateline story they said she was intiment with him that night before going back to her room. "

BECAUSE THAT WHAT BF SAID....that was to cover his ***

Show me a link where the mother admits to this and Ill shut the hell up

anima

10-11-2005, 09:19 PM

Imagine a beautiful 17yr old girl heading off to college. She's full of life yet still lacking the confidence and self possession that only comes with maturity. She has a natural curiosity, as most normal teens do, about sexuality and sophistication.

Enters a grown man whose appearance is that of a much younger man, whose lifestyle is that of a student. This man has a dark purpose and his intent is to draw out a particular vulnerability.

She didn't stand a chance. He had a Svengali-like attraction she could not resist. Whether or not she engaged in sex with him willingly might never be known absolutely. What is known is that she did indeed fall prey to him and did participate willingly in some ways.

It strikes me, when a woman meets a man like this, how often that strong urge and attraction draws the woman in. It is as if she understood that there was "something" about this man and needed to investigate it - but was far too young and inexperienced to recognize the very signals she was sensing. She misunderstood the danger signs.

How often, when watching a scary movie do we want to shout to the victim 'don't open that door - there is your death on the other side'?

my own opinions - such as they are

ETA..i think the bunk bed curiousity comment she made was a curiousity about the bed itself. It was a bizarre arrangement!

Hey Paula

10-11-2005, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by vedder
Like I said,I have had many girls on my bed that I did not sleep with....thats what you do in College,bum around peoples rooms....That statment means nothing....

If he did get to sleep with her,why would he still be "curious"

Just because she was on his bed DOES NOT suggest that they had sex.Im sure she was on a few guys beds since she started school...does that mean she slept with them too???

Re your second pararaph: It was stated that there were things BF still wanted to do with Taylor. Hence he is "curious".

PMcOuntry

10-11-2005, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by anima
Imagine a beautiful 17yr old girl heading off to college. She's full of life yet still lacking the confidence and self possession that only comes with maturity. She has a natural curiosity, as most normal teens do, about sexuality and sophistication.

Enters a grown man whose appearance is that of a much younger man, whose lifestyle is that of a student. This man has a dark purpose and his intent is to draw out a particular vulnerability.

She didn't stand a chance. He had a Svengali-like attraction she could not resist. Whether or not she engaged in sex with him willingly might never be known absolutely. What is known is that she did indeed fall prey to him and did participate willingly in some ways.

It strikes me, when a woman meets a man like this, how often that strong urge and attraction draws the woman in. It is as if she understood that there was "something" about this man and needed to investigate it - but was far too young and inexperienced to recognize the very signals she was sensing. She misunderstood the danger signs.

How often, when watching a scary movie do we want to shout to the victim 'don't open that door - there is your death on the other side'?

my own opinions - such as they are

ETA..i think the bunk bed curiousity comment she made was a curiousity about the bed itself. It was a bizarre arrangement!

Uh, what is so curious about a bunk bed, it's a bunk bed. I would think most everyone has seen one at least once in their life.

PMcOuntry

10-11-2005, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by kalekona

As the mother of a 22 and 20 year old daughters simply hanging out with a 38 year old man is not a problem for me, if it was a platonic relationship.

Taylor did not use the screen name jailbait for nothing.

I agree on the nick, no matter what age you are you generally put some thought into a screen name, after all, it is "who you are" w/o saying " who you are" right. They always have signifigance, whether they are you last name w/first initial, something like/collect/pet's name, etc. they mean something.

vedder

10-11-2005, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by kalekona

As the mother of a 22 and 20 year old daughters simply hanging out with a 38 year old man is not a problem for me, if it was a platonic relationship.

Taylor did not use the screen name jailbait for nothing. 22 and 20 is not a 17 year old minor...Why would a normal, healthy 38 year old man want a"platonic relationship" with a 20 year old?What could they possible have in common?He would only be after one thing.You cannot really be this naive.

"jailbait" was what the guys in school called her because she was 17....read my first post

bkqueen

10-11-2005, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by kalekona

As the mother of a 22 and 20 year old daughters simply hanging out with a 38 year old man is not a problem for me, if it was a platonic relationship.

Taylor did not use the screen name jailbait for nothing.
Great post kalekona!

At 17/18 I was halfway through college, on my own, and travelling around the world with 19 people ranging in age from 20 to 38.(both male and female, of varying nationalities) We had no supervision, nor rules, common contact with anyone at home, or any real contact with anyone but each other and those in our small villages we lived in.

Was my friendship with those people horrible because they were 38, 32, etc..?

Platonic relationships and sexual relationships are two VERY different things. imo.

and to claim moral superiority as to what is "good parenting" and "wrong" is..imo.. wrong..

vedder

10-11-2005, 09:37 PM

"ETA..i think the bunk bed curiousity comment she made was a curiousity about the bed itself. It was a bizarre arrangement!"

That is exactley what I thought.Nothing more nothing less...

anima

10-11-2005, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by PMcOuntry

Uh, what is so curious about a bunk bed, it's a bunk bed. I would think most everyone has seen one at least once in their life. well..you have to look at the pictures of it. It was not your run of the mill bunk bed. He has a skull obsession.

bkqueen

10-11-2005, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by vedder
"ETA..i think the bunk bed curiousity comment she made was a curiousity about the bed itself. It was a bizarre arrangement!"

That is exactley what I thought.Nothing more nothing less...

One thing I thought when I first heard the bunk thing was that it could be a loft type bunk bed.. you know the kind with the desk underneath? *shrugs*

ETA: mouththatroars ^good post above

ETA again: also seems that there are actual pictures of the bunkbed, so ignore my above comment!

vedder

10-11-2005, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

naa, my mom wouldn't have thought it was okay for me to hang out with a 38 y/o when i was 17. she woulda thought it was very bad because she's a mother. she thought hanging out alone in my house with a 17 y/o girl was bad. the big difference is that i wouldn't have. i woulda figured, i'm hanging out with her, she's taking pictures of me, and we're listening to music together. gee, what's so bad about this? i wouldn't run to my friend and be like, dude.. this 38 y/o took pictures of me walking in the park for myspace page.. we weren't doing anything remotely sexual but i still know it's just BAD!

that just doesn't make sense. Taylor wouldn't say "it" was "bad" unless something actually happened that she felt guilty and uncomfortable with. Lets see if this helps you..

Taylors friend- "Taylor what are you doing???There are so many cute guys here and you are hanging out with that old creepy guy.That guy is a loser...."

Taylor_"Yea,I know...Its bad..Its no big deal..."

This is the way see it...

anima

10-11-2005, 09:48 PM

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_disappearance_of_taylor_behl.html

scroll down to the October 06, 2005 entry titled "Interests..."Shallow Graves..."" there is a picture of the bed

bkqueen

10-11-2005, 09:54 PM

ahh it doesn't look much like a "bunk" bed to me, though I guess thats what BF called it.. to me, it doesn't look like there is a bunk on top, just the low one..

Looks more like the type of bed a person who is into being tied/cuffed to would want.. seems appropriate given his interests..

none of this, imo, makes him a killer.

I think he's suspect for many other reasons, but these aren't them for me..

:seeya:

anima

10-11-2005, 09:57 PM

Originally posted by bkqueen
ahh it doesn't look much like a "bunk" bed to me, though I guess thats what BF called it.. to me, it doesn't look like there is a bunk on top, just the low one..

Looks more like the type of bed a person who is into being tied/cuffed to would want.. seems appropriate given his interests..

none of this, imo, makes him a killer.

I think he's suspect for many other reasons, but these aren't them for me..

:seeya: i don't think anyone stated that his having this bunk bed makes him a killer. I suggested that taylor's bunk bed curiousity comment was her curiousity regarding his strange bed - and not necessarily as some here have suggested - her curiousity about having sex with him.

vedder

10-11-2005, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by bkqueen
ahh it doesn't look much like a "bunk" bed to me, though I guess thats what BF called it.. to me, it doesn't look like there is a bunk on top, just the low one..

Looks more like the type of bed a person who is into being tied/cuffed to would want.. seems appropriate given his interests..

none of this, imo, makes him a killer.

I think he's suspect for many other reasons, but these aren't them for me..

:seeya: Right...She was "curious" about the stupid bed ...nothing more

bkqueen

10-11-2005, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by anima
i don't think anyone stated that his having this bunk bed makes him a killer. I suggested that taylor's bunk bed curiousity comment was her curiousity regarding his strange bed - and not necessarily as some here have suggested - her curiousity about having sex with him.

anima;
sorry should have made that clearer, wasn't necessarily talking about this thread in particular, just have read many posts lately that make enjoying rough(CONSENSUAL) sex, certain lifestyles, or interests making one villianous(sp?)

I honestly don't think that her being curious had anything to do with his bed, but thats jmo. Especially with his response about sitll being curiuos..
if SHE was truly curious about his bed, his response doesn't make much sense.. does it?

*waves*

anima

10-11-2005, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by bkqueen

anima;
sorry should have made that clearer, wasn't necessarily talking about this thread in particular, just have read many posts lately that make enjoying rough(CONSENSUAL) sex, certain lifestyles, or interests making one villianous(sp?)

I honestly don't think that her being curious had anything to do with his bed, but thats jmo. Especially with his response about sitll being curiuos..
if SHE was truly curious about his bed, his response doesn't make much sense.. does it?

*waves* I see. Well, you are correct that the types of sex people choose to have makes them neither good nor bad.

The curious bunk blog comment she made can be interpreted many ways - that was really my only point about the bed issue.
my real point in my initial post was how vulnerable she likely was to his svengali effect on her. jmo

vedder

10-11-2005, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by bkqueen

anima;
sorry should have made that clearer, wasn't necessarily talking about this thread in particular, just have read many posts lately that make enjoying rough(CONSENSUAL) sex, certain lifestyles, or interests making one villianous(sp?)

I honestly don't think that her being curious had anything to do with his bed, but thats jmo. Especially with his response about sitll being curiuos..
if SHE was truly curious about his bed, his response doesn't make much sense.. does it?

*waves* Why not?She writes she was "curious"(about the bed)

He writes"Im still curious"(meaning, nothing happened but" I would like to get you in my bed again and have sex with you")

He was trying to enice her....

bkqueen

10-11-2005, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by vedder
Why not?She writes she was "curious"(about the bed)

He writes"Im still curious"(meaning, nothing happened but" I would like to get you in my bed again and have sex with you")

He was trying to enice her....

Well actually I hadn't really thought of it that way before vedder!

Thanks for a new outlook :)

I still disagree, but it's an interesting theory, that's for sure..

vedder

10-11-2005, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

even in that context, Ms. Jailbait obviously thought he had some redeeming qualities or she wouldn't have been with him to begin with. he didn't force any interaction on her. she found him appealing. he looked like Johnny Depp. her friend may not have liked him, but he was Taylor's guilty pleasure. she knew sexing him was bad, but she thought she could handle it. she didn't want her friend to concern herself with it so she may have told her it was no big deal, but she knew that it was.

the article mentioned his saying it was a romantic relationship, and her friend didn't deny it. if my sister was murdered by some cretin, and he was going around saying he was having sex with her, and my sister's best friends knew it wasn't true, they'd be breathing fire, and setting the record and reporter straight. nary a peep from Ms. Keough, however. This is my point.No one has confirmed anything as to yes or no.Everybody here keeps saying she did but yet no one can come up with a link to prove me otherwise...I have read nearly everything on MS.BEHL and not once did I read that the mother or friend admitted to this.
Someone produce a link and prove me wrong...

10-11-2005, 10:27 PM

When I was 15 one of my best friends was a 32 year old man.
I'm 29 now and we're STILL friends.
It's just a different mindset; I think Taylor was a very open minded young woman.

vedder

10-11-2005, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

you know that was April 8th, right? she went to Richmond to spend the weekend with him a week later.

didn't go missing for another *5 MONTHS*, thereby leaving plenty of time to scratch that mutual itch they had for one another. You know for sure that she went to spend the weekend there with just him??If that is the case I would be wrong...please elaborate...

vedder

10-11-2005, 10:32 PM

Originally posted by catzilla
When I was 15 one of my best friends was a 32 year old man.
I'm 29 now and we're STILL friends.
It's just a different mindset; I think Taylor was a very open minded young woman. Yes (and please dont take this the wrong way) but he always thought about sleeping with you.He still does.This is not just him,This is ALL men.This is just the way we are....

bkqueen

10-11-2005, 10:36 PM

10-11-2005, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by vedder
Yes (and please dont take this the wrong way) but he always thought about sleeping with you.He still does.This is not just him,This is ALL men.This is just the way we are....

You're probably right, but it's platonic.
I was just trying to point out though that having a friendship with someone older as a teen doesn't always mean something devious is going on.

anima

10-11-2005, 10:40 PM

vedder

10-11-2005, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

like i said before, they're not going to go out of they're way to tarnish her memory.. especially simply to cosign what her (alleged) murderer said. if it WASN'T true, however, they'd ALL be guns a-blazin, defending their daughter and friend.. Beth Holloway Twitty-style. No,No NO....everybody keeps saying they heard or read that the mom and friend admited that she did..but there is still not ONE link...all we have is what he said

Somebody show me where they admitted this....

The reason why they are not comin out "guns-ablazin" is they dont know for sure,and they have bigger problems now...

10-11-2005, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by vedder
This is my point.No one has confirmed anything as to yes or no.Everybody here keeps saying she did but yet no one can come up with a link to prove me otherwise...I have read nearly everything on MS.BEHL and not once did I read that the mother or friend admitted to this.
Someone produce a link and prove me wrong...
Admitted to have slept with him?
I doubt her Mom knows if she did.

BFD - v2.0

10-11-2005, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by vedder
Yes (and please dont take this the wrong way) but he always thought about sleeping with you.He still does.This is not just him,This is ALL men.This is just the way we are....

Excuse me? Speak for yourself.

The only time I've thought about sleeping with a 15 year old child was when I was a 15 year old child.

As an adult, I've never thought about sleeping with children.

Don't paint all men with the same ink your dipped your brush in.

vedder

10-11-2005, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

i don't know if it was just him, but in his journal he mentioned she came to visit for the weekend, and that he whisked her away to Belle Isle where he commonly took his lovers. Yea,she went to visit some friends for the weekend.He offered to take her up there to take some pictures(telling her how beautiful she was etc...)All very innocent...He had bigger plans

vedder

10-11-2005, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by BFD - v2.0

Excuse me? Speak for yourself.

The only time I've thought about sleeping with a 15 year old child was when I was a 15 year old child.

As an adult, I've never thought about sleeping with children.

Don't paint all men with the same ink your dipped your brush in. Both woman agree with me but you disagree??

IS it normal for a 32 year old man to be best friends with a 15 year old????Did you have a lot of 15 year old girl "friends" when you were in your thirtys?....Come on man,you know as well as I do,with the right outfit and make up a15 year old could easily pass for 18 or 19....

When you were an 18 year old senior in Highschool you never thought about sleeping with that really hot freshman??
I dont believe you...

vedder

10-11-2005, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

okay, now you've made a declarative statement that the reason they're not coming out guns a-blazin is because they don't know for sure.

prove it. show me a link that states they don't know whether Taylor had sex with him or not. No Show me a link that states they do.Ive been waiting all nite...

10-11-2005, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by BevAnn
I think by her own admission, she had had sexual relations with him at some point. Did she have consensual sex with him THAT night - I highly doubt it. But I do believe she had tested the waters with him before.

Bev Ann

I agree completely... unfortunately, i hate that she ever met the guy.

:(

10-11-2005, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by vedder
Just because she found him somewhat interesting does not mean she slept with the guy.How many 17 year olds sleep with 38 year old guys???? This is just my opinion....

If she did sleep with him she must have told SOMEONE..a girlfriend,friend etc...someone must know. I wish someone would come forword with some info...

Honestly... it doesn't matter if she had sex with the guy or not. she's dead and she'll never have it again. She'll never graduate, get engaged, experience pregnancy, give birth, nothing.. everything is OVER afor this girl and i think it sucks. We sent roses and a letter.. i hope they get them.

Blessed Be'

vedder

10-11-2005, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

personally, i think her mother knows if she did or not.. she'll never admit it, tho. she went to Taylor's VCU dorm, and found her diary (the more personal, offline one). ANY MOTHER who loves her daughter would let some piece of human garbage like Fawley defame her daughter's name if she even had once scintilla of dobut as to the veracity of what he was saying about her.

IMO, Taylor detailed what happened between she and BF, her mother read it, and won't (can't) deny any of what Fawley's been saying. Then why have people been saying she already has admited it?.....I did not know about the diary and i do agree with you on that point....

Hey Paula

10-11-2005, 11:12 PM

Originally posted by catzilla
When I was 15 one of my best friends was a 32 year old man.
I'm 29 now and we're STILL friends.
It's just a different mindset; I think Taylor was a very open minded young woman.

Did the 32 year old man, who you were friendly with as a teen, hang around your high school and surround himself with teenagers and teenage lovers?

If not, then the man you know is not like BF.

IMO

vedder

10-11-2005, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

i already gave you the reason(s) why you won't see any links of family and friends confirming the relationship.. to preserve her memory as a sweet, chaste girl.

now, show me your link that they don't know whether she had sex with him or not.. Never said I had a link(unlike other people) thats why I am here....If this information was already released It would not just have vanished...the media could care less about preseving anyones memory...its all about the COLD,HARD,FACTS....

vedder

10-11-2005, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by sunny75
the COLD, HARD FACT is, it doesn't matter if she willingly had sex with BF or not. It was illegal for him to have sex with a 17 yr. old, but the bigger issue is that he very likely MURDERED her. So why are you so hung up on whether or not she slept with him at some point?! Read my first post again,Thats why...

10-11-2005, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

Did the 32 year old man, who you were friendly with as a teen, hang around your high school and surround himself with teenagers and teenage lovers?

If not, then the man you know is not like BF.

IMO
I thought BF hung aroung VCU, not high schools.
And yes my friend had friends of all ages, including teenagers.
So what? It's not illegal.

Hey Paula

10-11-2005, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by vedder
"Even on the dateline story they said she was intiment with him that night before going back to her room. "

BECAUSE THAT WHAT BF SAID....that was to cover his ***

Show me a link where the mother admits to this and Ill shut the hell up

Do you think, if Taylor had sex with BF, that she would tell her mother?

Hey Paula

10-11-2005, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

okay, obviously i knew you weren't gonna hava link. i was just doing a little experiment. you're chastising people for using a little logic, common sense, and deductive reasoning to formulate their opinions, yet YOU turn around and do the same exact thing.

this thread is called "Taylor did NOT have sex with Fawley..." Is this a COLD,HARD,FACT, or an opinion based on a li'l deductive reasoning of your own? if so, why is it okay for you state your conlusions, by not okay for the rest of us to state ours?

I think he's saying "my opinion is vedder than yours". :D

vedder

10-11-2005, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

okay, obviously i knew you weren't gonna hava link. i was just doing a little experiment. you're chastising people for using a little logic, common sense, and deductive reasoning to formulate their opinions, yet YOU turn around and do the same exact thing.

this thread is called "Taylor did NOT have sex with Fawley..." Is this a COLD,HARD,FACT, or an opinion based on a li'l deductive reasoning of your own? if so, why is it okay for you state your conlusions, by not okay for the rest of us to state ours? I was not chastising anyone.I am here for answers like everyone else.BUT more than one person has said there was a link where the mom and friend admitted this ONE detail...so far NO link...I WANT peoples opinions....and I want this so-called link..

vedder

10-11-2005, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

I think he's saying "my opinion is vedder than yours". :D LOL, Paula..

vedder

10-11-2005, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

Do you think, if Taylor had sex with BF, that she would tell her mother? People here have said that the friend admitted it to her mom...

Hey Paula

10-11-2005, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by catzilla

I thought BF hung aroung VCU, not high schools.
And yes my friend had friends of all ages, including teenagers.
So what? It's not illegal.

I was simply comparing it to your situation of being 15, and still in high school, and your 32 year old friend at the time. Hence, I asked you if your 32 year friend surrounded himself solely with high school friends and lovers because BF does that with the VCU crowd.

Hey Paula

10-12-2005, 12:02 AM

Originally posted by vedder
People here have said that the friend admitted it to her mom...

When the topic was brought up in TV interviews with Taylor's mom, Janet Pelasara didn't deny it happened, but rightfully stated that BF had broken the law by his admission of having had sex with her underage daughter.

Bluprint

10-12-2005, 04:50 AM

Oh come off it people! Ben Fawley is hot! A little scrawny for my personal taste but he's an attractive man.

As an 18 y/o:
He had his own apartment, access to drugs and a bunch of friends... my stupid butt would've probably been in his bunk too! Actually, my mother always warned me to be wary of able-bodied men that didn't work so maybe I wouldn't have stayed in that bunk but whatever, I'm sure I would've been interested.

As an adult over 25:
He's too kinky for me. I like my cutlery kept in the kitchen and his Peter Pan mentality would drive me nuts. Plus, his decor is totally tacky! Imagine being his girlfriend. It would be like living out "Pirates of the Caribbean" every night. :rolleyes: He's a silly goose.

BevAnn

10-12-2005, 09:56 AM

Originally posted by Bluprint
Oh come off it people! Ben Fawley is hot! A little scrawny for my personal taste but he's an attractive man.

As an 18 y/o:
He had his own apartment, access to drugs and a bunch of friends... my stupid butt would've probably been in his bunk too! Actually, my mother always warned me to be wary of able-bodied men that didn't work so maybe I wouldn't have stayed in that bunk but whatever, I'm sure I would've been interested.

As an adult over 25:
He's too kinky for me. I like my cutlery kept in the kitchen and his Peter Pan mentality would drive me nuts. Plus, his decor is totally tacky! Imagine being his girlfriend. It would be like living out "Pirates of the Caribbean" every night. :rolleyes: He's a silly goose.

LOL! ok, as a 35 year old hip chic (or so I like to pretend!!) I'll have to show some honesty here and say I agree with you! He reminds me of a guy that works with my husband - and he's hot! lol yes - at 17/18 I would have been all over this guy! I'd have said to anyone who brought up the age thing - age doesn't matter, he understands me, etc etc...and maybe I'd have kept it as quiet as possible, knowing I'd catch flack from everyone - would have just ADDED to the mystique....sneaking around, being secretive...oh yeah, I'd have been totally stupid and wrapped up in that. (in fact, did something VERY similar, but he was 25...I thought he was a god!)

Bev Ann

CC81

10-12-2005, 08:44 PM

her parents were seperated right?.... for how long I don't know... but a lot of *mainly* females rebel when there is a missing parent... leaving themselves vulnerable to peoples true character... they'll go looking for - in other, sometimes way older guys- what she's missing from the relationships she has (or doesn't have) with her parents...

now I'm not saying that either of her parents were bad parents... it's just something I've noticed with split families.. mine included.

JMO

CC81

10-12-2005, 09:17 PM

yes, maybe a rush.. who knows ~Nice guys finish last~ Though it really would have been nice if she had found herself a 'nice guy'.. I have a strong feeling she was at a point in her life that she wanted to test her waters with a 'bad boy'... anyways.. she fell into the arms of BF, for one reason or another.. whether he was the murderer or not.. he's still a discusting person and I will make it a point to educate and keep my daughters away from dirtbags like him.

Heather25

10-12-2005, 09:21 PM

There are wayyyy to many pages on this thread to go through to find out if someone else had seen what i've seen. I've been going through journal passages galore, websites, you name it, and in Taylor's live journal she did a survey and one of the questions asked something about who you lost your virginity too and She said up until BF that she'd just been with girls but did in fact lose her virginity to him.

bkqueen

10-12-2005, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by Heather25
There are wayyyy to many pages on this thread to go through to find out if someone else had seen what i've seen. I've been going through journal passages galore, websites, you name it, and in Taylor's live journal she did a survey and one of the questions asked something about who you lost your virginity too and She said up until BF that she'd just been with girls but did in fact lose her virginity to him.

Actually that was NOT Taylor, it was a poster named
"Selectchoice"
http://www.livejournal.com/users/selectchoice/

I believe, if you read the LJ, there are details that wouldn't fit if it was Taylor(age, same-sex relationships<yes taylor could have, but in this posters case, her mother knows about it, and they were serious relationships>), I don't know how long Taylor has known Ben, or when she first had a relationship with him but ALL of these posts go back to more than a year ago.. and I don't think Taylors relationship with Ben was that long ago, and these posts were made AFTER "selectchoices" relationship with Ben ended.

anyway.. *waves*

see ya :)

Heather25

10-12-2005, 09:39 PM

Yeah thats the journal, but I thought that one was Taylor's as well. One that she set up specifically for BF.Thats what i THOUGHT I heard anyway...lol who knows anymore, there's so much stuff i'm confused

bkqueen

10-12-2005, 09:46 PM

Well, if she only started at VCU this year, that means I *think* thats he went there last year to visit right? Don't know the dates.. but This journal was posted to in..

September 2004, she also claims to have had a threesome in her own college dorm(again STILL in 2004, not possible as Taylor was still in highschool) and claims to be over 21, she also states she has only been to two other countries(Canada and Mexico),

Grotofray

10-12-2005, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by murdershewrote
I remember one of her girlfriends say that Taylor did have sex with him (she had an affair, a fling) and Taylor's mom did acknowledge this as well.

You're right. I heard that too.

jmo

Grotofray

10-12-2005, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

Do you think, if Taylor had sex with BF, that she would tell her mother?

I agree. Didn't one of her girlfriends tell Taylor's mother that Taylor had a fling with BF, and didn't Taylor's mom mention this on FOX?

jmo

Hey Paula

10-13-2005, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by Grotofray

I agree. Didn't one of her girlfriends tell Taylor's mother that Taylor had a fling with BF, and didn't Taylor's mom mention this on FOX?

jmo

Taylor's mother never denied that her daughter had sex with BF. In fact, when BF's lawyer stated his client admitted to having sex with her daughter, (before Taylor's body was found) Janet Pelasara stated that was an admisson to BF having committed a crime, due to her daughter being underage; Taylor being 17, and BF being 38.

gavels77

10-13-2005, 05:41 AM

veddar, if you want a link that says straight up taylor says she never had sex with BF then that just isn't going to happen. if that is how you think crimes are solved and how police work is done then i say, keep your day job buddy.

furthermore teenagers today do not say "its bad to hang out with this guy b/c he's old or b/c my father said so" esp. to their friends. you need to realize that teenagers aren't as "innocent" as you liked to believe. take a look at statistics of how many teenagers are sexually active. regardless if she was having sex with him or not that does not make it okay for her to be murdered.

having gone to VCU in the 21st century i can assure you, life there is not how it was back in the 1970's and its not like how life is in a comfy little suburb. VCU is not a college that caters towards returning students and adults like someone posted. the community around VCU is a mixture of students, wealthy homeowners (think west ave. and w. cary st past thompson) and artists. Of course you have the "ghettos" such as carver, and jackson ward but rarely are these people (unless they are students) associated with the VCU community. VCU is a top rated art school and you won't find a community anywhere else in VA that is like VCU when it comes to art. unfortunatly BF was an artist, and clearly TB looked up to his artist ability as did many other girls. his sexual conquests are documented on his journals with the girls responding to them. if you read through his and then the girls and the friends of the girls you will see this (one of the girls he was seeing who just moved to philly and her friend still in rva commenting on how she will soon have sex with him).

demanding someone post a link with the exact admission is only taking away from the fact that she was unjustly murdered. if such a thing did exist, do you think that what happened to poor TB is okay? i hope not.

10-13-2005, 10:42 AM

listen, from the perspective of an 18 year old girl, me, she most likely did.
she was new to college. my first week of college, i was drunk every night, hanging out with guys EVERY NIGHT. almost ALL of the freshmen do. especially the one's that are sexually aware of themselves, as she seemed to be. you are out of your mom's house, you are able to do WHATEVER you want - experimentation happens

the unfortunate thing about it is, if you are raped by someone you were once having voluntary sex with, there is no way to absolutely prove it.

it's a slippery slope, and it's sad that we'll probably never know if she was truly taken advantage of or if she went into it voluntarily.

BevAnn

10-13-2005, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars

it was just a tragedy waiting to happen. she was hot, plus being afflicted with this whole 'bad boy syndrome', i'm sure she had a lot of these dirtbags slithering up to her on a daily basis. unfortunatly this one just happened to bear a striking resemblance to her favorite actor. she was probably putty in his hands, poor girl.

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/deppfawley.JPG

:eek: OMG!!!!!!!!! Mouth!!! that picture comparison darkside did is UNCANNING!!!!!!! I didn't realize HOW MUCh he looked like Johnny Depp!! I mean, I thought he resemebled him yeah, but omg, that's like a mirror image!!

:eek: Bev Ann

BeesKnees

10-13-2005, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by ANGRYWOLF
who was recently called a babydoll by an attractive female at work...
I have a hard time understanding why women find this guy atttractive...He's a nut case, he's probably filthy..may have STDs....could be a petty crook...and who knows what else....
I have to fault the parents for not bringing up Taylor with some perspective to know what makes a good man..and how she should carry herself and protect herself from sexual predators...she exercised very poor judgement....and that is not my blaming her or her parents for her death..My heart bleeds for her and her family...I have a 10 year old daughter and when she's 17 she'll know better.....:cuss:

Wow, are you naïve.
I hope you’re right and that your daughter will somehow possess knowledge of all evil people and situations, but I can almost guarantee you that some of it boils down to blind luck. Predators know what they are doing and are adept in seeming harmless and normal. For you to imply that you will be a better parent than so many who have lost their children to these evil people is very presumptuous and foolhardy.

Your daughter may have some valuable insights that you will instill in her as she reaches adulthood, but she will not necessarily be immune from heartache or harm. Some of that is just luck – I hope she is lucky enough to never run into somebody of the likes that would do to her what was done to Taylor.

Hopeintown

10-13-2005, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by ANGRYWOLF
who was recently called a babydoll by an attractive female at work...
I have a hard time understanding why women find this guy atttractive...He's a nut case, he's probably filthy..may have STDs....could be a petty crook...and who knows what else....
I have to fault the parents for not bringing up Taylor with some perspective to know what makes a good man..and how she should carry herself and protect herself from sexual predators...she exercised very poor judgement....and that is not my blaming her or her parents for her death..My heart bleeds for her and her family...I have a 10 year old daughter and when she's 17 she'll know better.....:cuss:

Why would you fault Taylor's parents for anything?

Believe me, there is no built in "radar" when it comes to "nut jobs". At the age of 17 my daughter brought home a guy (from school) whom she swore looked just like James Dean (she just loves him for some reason), he seemed just wonderful, a little too "wonderful". In fact, he ended up putting our entire family through pure h*ll. We had to obtain a restraining order for him to stay OUT of her life. I mean, this guy turned out to be a total whack job. Even to this day with our daughter out of the house he STILL goes by slowly and looks to see if she is here.

I have alway's "taught" my daughter of dangers in the world, but sometimes you don't know when the devil comes in disguise.

Good luck to you.

IMO

singlesix

10-13-2005, 10:55 PM

"VCU is not a college that caters towards returning students and adults like someone posted."

Read the VCU site: More than 28,000 students and 32% are part-time. Approximately 4,000 degrees awarded per year.

A large part of that one-third is composed of returning students and adults.

singlesix

Ohdonna

10-13-2005, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by BeesKnees

Wow, are you naïve.
I hope you’re right and that your daughter will somehow possess knowledge of all evil people and situations, but I can almost guarantee you that some of it boils down to blind luck. Predators know what they are doing and are adept in seeming harmless and normal. For you to imply that you will be a better parent than so many who have lost their children to these evil people is very presumptuous and foolhardy.

Your daughter may have some valuable insights that you will instill in her as she reaches adulthood, but she will not necessarily be immune from heartache or harm. Some of that is just luck – I hope she is lucky enough to never run into somebody of the likes that would do to her what was done to Taylor.

Gosh, when I think of the people I trusted when I was younger....I'm lucky I survived.

gavels77

10-13-2005, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by singlesix
"VCU is not a college that caters towards returning students and adults like someone posted."

Read the VCU site: More than 28,000 students and 32% are part-time. Approximately 4,000 degrees awarded per year.

A large part of that one-third is composed of returning students and adults.

singlesix

less than 1/3 isn't quite catering to a group, would you say? i graduated from VCU two years ago, and i know how much of a pain it was to get into the classes i wanted and all the overrides that were needed to get into these classes. i guess it could be considered a "commuter school" b/c the kids don't live on campus, but for the most part live in fan and surrounding areas. i'm not saying that there aren't returning or older students who go to VCU, but that isn't the norm. i stand by the statement of it being (a natinally ranked top 10) art school. rarely do the students from the medical campus and academic campus mingle. i'm sure a huge chunk of the less then 1/3 you speak of are students at the medical campus (which is also nationally ranked)

BeesKnees

10-14-2005, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by ANGRYWOLF
Hahahahahahaha..you don't know jack about me fella..so how do you get off calling me naive ? I guess it's naive to say to your children, "hey don't sleep with goofballs because you never know what you might be getting from them"...or how they might turn on you..and expect my children to see the wisdom of what I have told them and obey...I guess beesknees you've let a few hornets into your nest so you knock me because I want my children to do better than that. ..Then so be it...but I hope you don't have any kids..because they can't expect any teaching from you...:rolleyes:

Well golly. I can't wait to see the knowledge you will be able to bestow upon us when your daughter reaches 17 or so.

I do have children and I assure you, they are fine. That being said, I will never stop worrying about them, regardless of what I have taught them and seen them through thus far. There are so many kinds of victimization, I have been a party to it firsthand, I have also seen a fair number of intelligent women become victims. I would say it is a safe bet that every living person has been, or will be to some extent. It doesn't mean they are stupid or foolish or that their parents messed up. If you yourself haven't been or have some secret assurance on how not to be, do write a book on it. It is selfish to keep that kind of all-knowing intelligence to onesself.

It is a HUGE hard fall from one's mighty perch when the fall does indeed happen. I hope, honestly hope, there will be a cushion for you if and when that should ever happen.

PMcOuntry

10-14-2005, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by Ohdonna

Gosh, when I think of the people I trusted when I was younger....I'm lucky I survived.

You and me both! I look back and go wow... that could have been me in a shallow grave/ditch. You can't "tell" which ones will hurt you, they don't wear a sign on their forehead.

PMcOuntry

10-14-2005, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by BeesKnees

Well golly. I can't wait to see the knowledge you will be able to bestow upon us when your daughter reaches 17 or so.

I do have children and I assure you, they are fine. That being said, I will never stop worrying about them, regardless of what I have taught them and seen them through thus far. There are so many kinds of victimization, I have been a party to it firsthand, I have also seen a fair number of intelligent women become victims. I would say it is a safe bet that every living person has been, or will be to some extent. It doesn't mean they are stupid or foolish or that their parents messed up. If you yourself haven't been or have some secret assurance on how not to be, do write a book on it. It is selfish to keep that kind of all-knowing intelligence to onesself.

It is a HUGE hard fall from one's mighty perch when the fall does indeed happen. I hope, honestly hope, there will be a cushion for you if and when that should ever happen.

I have to agree w/this mostly, most females will be victims somehow, not necessarily abuse/rape, etc. but even coersion, etc. can be a part of that and then realizing, wow wasn't I stupid to listen to that guy and/or do that. It won't necessarily be a criminal act. It could be something where someone exposes themself to a woman, but does nothing else, either way, I don't think I know one woman that hasn't been a victim in some way, even being offered money for sex when your NOT a prostitute and NEVER have been is being a victim, that person who did that seems to think you are something you are not and it's sick. So many scenerios. And just because you tell your kids EVERYTHING and tell them how to be CAREFUL, etc. doesn't mean they won't be a victim.

PMcOuntry

10-14-2005, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by kalekona

With all your wisdo, please tell us how to spot a "wack job" do they wear signs? is it tattooed on their foreheads? is it a smell. just how can you know for sure?

Petersen
hacking
bundy

any parent so self rightous is screaming for trouble.
Will you force your children to live at home until they are old and over the whole dating issue? send them to a nunnery? or just do and say stupid foolish things that will in the end hand them over to the very type you think you can keep them from.

i always love the parents who just know they are/will do things so much better than any partent who ever came before them... karma and murphys law tends to in the end show them the truth and the error they made.

I was "protected" as a kid, overly protected and guess what... it hindered me, bc when I went into the real world, I didn't figure anything bad could happen to me! I was wrong.

PMcOuntry

10-14-2005, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by ANGRYWOLF
who was recently called a babydoll by an attractive female at work...
I have a hard time understanding why women find this guy atttractive...He's a nut case, he's probably filthy..may have STDs....could be a petty crook...and who knows what else....
I have to fault the parents for not bringing up Taylor with some perspective to know what makes a good man..and how she should carry herself and protect herself from sexual predators...she exercised very poor judgement....and that is not my blaming her or her parents for her death..My heart bleeds for her and her family...I have a 10 year old daughter and when she's 17 she'll know better.....:cuss:

My parents taught me what a good man was, I saw what a great man my father was (parents married 42 years now and very much in love), etc. and guess what, I married a total jerk... however, when I met him and when they met him, he was nice and polite, for 1 year he was like this, 6 months into the marraige, he became "himself", abusive. The parents are not at fault, we make our OWN decisions! And in many cases, the guy pretends to be some HE IS NOT! In my case, I did get out, and I'm the better for it. What I'm saying is, I was brought up w/all the right things, morals, values, etc. and I still picked the wrong one because I couldn't see the real him. Taylor saw someone else I'm sure, like Erin did, but then they "changed", doesn't mean she didn't know crap about the right man/sexual predators, they don't wear signs ya know.

PMcOuntry

10-14-2005, 11:56 AM

jaokguy

10-14-2005, 01:14 PM

i hate to break the news to ya but it certainly looks like taylor DID in fact sleep with fawley...you can say or write anything u want to try and convince yourself that she didn't but her emails and postings to fawley definitely incriminate her big time...not only did she sleep with him but it seems she LIKED it as well...you need to pinch yourself and wake up....women are most certainly not the sweet, little, innocent flowers you'd like to believe they are....

jeff

molly1

10-14-2005, 01:27 PM

drip~drop1

10-14-2005, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by Ohdonna

Gosh, when I think of the people I trusted when I was younger....I'm lucky I survived.

For real. Me too.

Hey Paula

10-14-2005, 01:39 PM

BeesKnees

10-14-2005, 01:41 PM

Chloe G.

10-14-2005, 03:16 PM

10-14-2005, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by jaokguy
i hate to break the news to ya but it certainly looks like taylor DID in fact sleep with fawley...you can say or write anything u want to try and convince yourself that she didn't but her emails and postings to fawley definitely incriminate her big time...not only did she sleep with him but it seems she LIKED it as well...you need to pinch yourself and wake up....women are most certainly not the sweet, little, innocent flowers you'd like to believe they are....

jeff

Maybe you did not think too much before posting the remark INCRIMINATING her big time...In all honesty here she was a 17 year old young woman...she was NOT the deviant, she did not incriminate herself but more so HIM. sweet, little and innocent flowers...why wouldn't she be? Because she might of had sex? Sounds like there might be some personal bitterness regarding the female sex. She is dead now and to be remembered and mourned as a child not a sexual deviant and certainly nothing LESS THAN SWEET AND LITTLE AND AN INNOCENT FLOWER...jmo.

10-14-2005, 04:29 PM

i really dont think you can blame ANYONE for taylor's trusting ben fawley... i dont think she was naive, or raised badly, these things just happen. if this guy is a sociopath or psychopath, there would have been NO WAY for taylor to know what kind of guy he really was. they are experts at looking like nice, normal people and gaining trust. doesnt anyone remember ted bundy?? who worked for a RAPE CRISIS HOTLINE and raped and killed around 36 women??? several college women who obviously weren't stupid... its nobody's fault but BEN FAWLEY"S that taylor is dead.

PMcOuntry

10-14-2005, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by irulerulerule
i really dont think you can blame ANYONE for taylor's trusting ben fawley... i dont think she was naive, or raised badly, these things just happen. if this guy is a sociopath or psychopath, there would have been NO WAY for taylor to know what kind of guy he really was. they are experts at looking like nice, normal people and gaining trust. doesnt anyone remember ted bundy?? who worked for a RAPE CRISIS HOTLINE and raped and killed around 36 women??? several college women who obviously weren't stupid... its nobody's fault but BEN FAWLEY"S that taylor is dead.

Well, it's "alleged" that he did it... but the rest is true! I of course think he did but, to be technical... hehe :beer:

PMcOuntry

10-14-2005, 05:07 PM

PMcOuntry

10-14-2005, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by molly1

She was 17 and a very sweet, naive girl. She thought she would always be safe. She was looking to learn more about life. Unfortunately, there was too much she didn't know.

By definition she was a little innocent flower.

IMO

I've read that 1. she traveled around the world 2. her mom called her streets smart 3. she admits in her online journal that at 17 she was already NOT a virgin.

She may have been sweet, friends/family say so, but innocent, I don't believe that for a second. And every female is just a bit naive when it comes to some men at one time or another and... that goes for men too! I know several guys that are naive when it comes to woman, it goes both ways. However, if you read her online journal(s), you'll see she even experimented w/being a lesbian. Sweet, probably yes, didn't know her, innocent, nope.

memap1965

10-14-2005, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by Irulerulerule

i really dont think you can blame ANYONE for taylor's trusting ben fawley... i dont think she was naive, or raised badly, these things just happen. if this guy is a sociopath or psychopath, there would have been NO WAY for taylor to know what kind of guy he really was. they are experts at looking like nice, normal people and gaining trust. doesnt anyone remember ted bundy?? who worked for a RAPE CRISIS HOTLINE and raped and killed around 36 women??? several college women who obviously weren't stupid... its nobody's fault but BEN FAWLEY"S that taylor is dead.

I wholeheartedly agree! You never know what a person's temper can warrant.

PMcOuntry

10-14-2005, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Hey Paula

What do you mean by "incriminate her"?

Since when does a 17 year old girl, (who winds up being murdered) having sex with a 38 year old man, incriminate her? Don't you have it the other way around?

I think they just used the wrong term...

PMcOuntry

10-14-2005, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by BeesKnees

Wow. I am literally speechless.

You sound as if you have some latent (and not so latent) aggressive feelings towards women. Maybe you should seek help?

Everyone calm down, read between the lines!

I happen to like our discussions here, but if they get bad, they will shut down this board like that did Natalie Holloways board, because of speculation and making false facts/assumptions, derogatory remarks, etc.

Hey Paula

10-14-2005, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by PMcOuntry

I think they just used the wrong term...

I hope you're right!

bkqueen

10-14-2005, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by PMcOuntry

I've read that 1. she traveled around the world 2. her mom called her streets smart 3. she admits in her online journal that at 17 she was already NOT a virgin.

She may have been sweet, friends/family say so, but innocent, I don't believe that for a second. And every female is just a bit naive when it comes to some men at one time or another and... that goes for men too! I know several guys that are naive when it comes to woman, it goes both ways. However, if you read her online journal(s), you'll see she even experimented w/being a lesbian. Sweet, probably yes, didn't know her, innocent, nope.

PM;

good post, i'm curious where you read about her experimenting with being a lesbian? I hadn't read that anywhere except Selectchoices journal(who is NOT Taylor)..

thanks!

memap1965

10-14-2005, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by bkqueen

PM;

good post, i'm curious where you read about her experimenting with being a lesbian? I hadn't read that anywhere except Selectchoices journal(who is NOT Taylor)..

thanks!

I don't think she was a lesbian. I believe she just kind of checked it out. Know what I mean? It was either in her LiveJournal or her MySpace. I read it on one of those blogs.

bkqueen

10-14-2005, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by memap1965

I don't think she was a lesbian. I believe she just kind of checked it out. Know what I mean? It was either in her LiveJournal or her MySpace. I read it on one of those blogs.

ah ok thanks!

Ijust remember there were a few conv. about this earlier, but they were talking about selectchoice..
anyway, thanks!

memap1965

10-14-2005, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by bkqueen

ah ok thanks!

Ijust remember there were a few conv. about this earlier, but they were talking about selectchoice..
anyway, thanks!

I know...all of these women are getting confusing! BF definitely got around!

PMcOuntry

10-14-2005, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by bkqueen

PM;

good post, i'm curious where you read about her experimenting with being a lesbian? I hadn't read that anywhere except Selectchoices journal(who is NOT Taylor)..

thanks!

It wasn't her doowap journal, it was her Jailbait one. The same post where BF says she climbed up in his bunk, another person posts "waking up w/your fingers inside me" and it was posted by a lesbian. Taylor replied with, "well I tried/experiment, but I guess I'm just not bi." (paraphrasing). The posters name comtained Tampons. I remember bc it was weird.

10-15-2005, 01:56 AM

Originally posted by PMcOuntry

It wasn't her doowap journal, it was her Jailbait one. The same post where BF says she climbed up in his bunk, another person posts "waking up w/your fingers inside me" and it was posted by a lesbian. Taylor replied with, "well I tried/experiment, but I guess I'm just not bi." (paraphrasing). The posters name comtained Tampons. I remember bc it was weird.

i saw that post about uhh lesbian experiments too, but im pretty sure the girls were joking... i mean thats definitely what it looked like to me. i definitely wouldnt assume she had lesbian stuff going on just that exchange.

Victim's Cry

10-15-2005, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by vedder
Yea,she went to visit some friends for the weekend.He offered to take her up there to take some pictures(telling her how beautiful she was etc...)All very innocent...He had bigger plans

Havent read thru the thread yet, but Taylors dad dropped her off at Fawleys and Cino to spend the weekend at their apartment.

There was a lot of discussion on why the dad allowed it, but when he was interviewed he made it clear that she spent the weekend at the apartment of the 2, and he spent the weekend elsewhere.

jmo, i believe it was greta.

Re sex life of taylor. 17 yr olds OFTEN have sex with older guys if they act like younger ones (i.e not the "dad" sort of older guy). Fawley looked and acted like a 20 year old, and was just odd enough to be interesting imo.

I find it shocking that anyone thinks it would reflect on Taylor if she experimented, had a fling or anything else. From her moms statements, from her friends, its pretty clear they accept she did. This DOES NOT MEAN THAT SHE IS A BAD GIRL. Just a typical young lady who didnt recognize a nutbar. If she hadnt been murdered she would have gone on with life and as a grandma looked back and said "ohmy the things i did as a teen" or "remember that really weird guy i was drawn to..amazing i thought he was attractive"

So why would anyone be upset at the idea of her having consensual sex with fawley?????

What I am upset at is the creep murdered her!!!!!!!!!!!

Pepper

10-15-2005, 09:41 AM

Excellent post, Victim's Cry.

PMcOuntry

10-15-2005, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by ANGRYWOLF
that some of you ladies think it was ok for Taylor to hang around with this guy and using....or so it seems to me..that young girls will experiment as an excuse...and that I am being judgemental....So let me say once again..my heart bleeds for the family..Taylor was a beautiful young woman who had her whole life ahead of her and shouldn't have gone that way..and whomever did it deserves to fry....I am saying I will educate my daughter to make sure as much as i humanly can..that she stays away from kooks like that..How do I know he is a kook ? The vans he decorated..the box of bones in his apartment..the machetes and other stuff that was there..plus the past problems he had had which Taylor should have been able to learn about and know....so he didn't need to wear a red flag..it was there for anybody who met the guy to see....so don't give me that stuff some of you are spouting..I am not being disrespectful to Taylor..nor am I blaming her for her own death..we don't even know if this Ben guy did it..or if he did if he had accomplices...who also need to be arrested....I am saying she should have stayed away from him on general principles because he is a nut case. Period.:cuss:

Maybe she didn't think he was odd, or maybe he didn't have some of the stufff you and I would think spelled "nut case" out where she could see it. People into Goth usually do have skulls, etc. (not real ones, I'm sure), but symbols, tattoos, stuff like that. If she just though it was bc he was a part of that scene, I doubt she put 2 & 2 together. Either way, we don't know what she was thinking. I think it's great your educating your kids early in this and I hope that they will never face anything horrible and that they learn and listen! Kudos to you! But again, just bc you or I might stay away from someone like that, someone else might be drawn to the weirdness, who knows, she was 17 and still finding herself no doubt. I do not think it's right for soemone under 18 to hang out w/much older guys, but once you hit 18, your an adult and should be able to choose. When I was 19, I had friends in their last 20's, totally platonic however. I did date men in their early 30's though and my parents didn't mind because they felt I was very mature for my age.

PMcOuntry

10-15-2005, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Victim's Cry

Havent read thru the thread yet, but Taylors dad dropped her off at Fawleys and Cino to spend the weekend at their apartment.

There was a lot of discussion on why the dad allowed it, but when he was interviewed he made it clear that she spent the weekend at the apartment of the 2, and he spent the weekend elsewhere.

jmo, i believe it was greta.

Re sex life of taylor. 17 yr olds OFTEN have sex with older guys if they act like younger ones (i.e not the "dad" sort of older guy). Fawley looked and acted like a 20 year old, and was just odd enough to be interesting imo.

I find it shocking that anyone thinks it would reflect on Taylor if she experimented, had a fling or anything else. From her moms statements, from her friends, its pretty clear they accept she did. This DOES NOT MEAN THAT SHE IS A BAD GIRL. Just a typical young lady who didnt recognize a nutbar. If she hadnt been murdered she would have gone on with life and as a grandma looked back and said "ohmy the things i did as a teen" or "remember that really weird guy i was drawn to..amazing i thought he was attractive"

So why would anyone be upset at the idea of her having consensual sex with fawley?????

What I am upset at is the creep murdered her!!!!!!!!!!! '

I have actually been shocked to hear how many young ppl today "experiment" and are sexually active at such young ages. Granted, I'm not that old, but that's not something my generation did, or if they did, I didn't know about it, or was out the loop, lol. Of course, it could have been how I was raised to, and I didn't have a lot of influcence coming from peers, mostly family surrounded me when I was younger and my siblings were much older.

PMcOuntry

10-15-2005, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by irulerulerule

i saw that post about uhh lesbian experiments too, but im pretty sure the girls were joking... i mean thats definitely what it looked like to me. i definitely wouldnt assume she had lesbian stuff going on just that exchange.

I don't know, if you look at the other girls site, you'll she's a hard core lesbian and Taylors response seemed real enough to me. I'm surrounded by many young ppl at college and I'm shocked as to how many you will hear say they've experimented. I can not know for a fact she did or didn't, but it wouldn't surprise me if that post was true. We will never know I'm sure.

PMcOuntry

10-15-2005, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by ANGRYWOLF
was handsome..no Brad Pitt that's for sure...No Orlando Bloom...he's just a scruffy looking skinny dude to me..not somebody young women should be swooning over..although from reading this post..it seems like there are women..if Fawley were found to be innocent..and they lived within driving distance of VA..would hop in their cars..drive over to his apartment and fling themselves at him and say 'take me I'm yours"
..I don't know if they're reliving "past glories" by emoting over this guy....but it seems some of the women who have posted here are definitely "interested"
.................and no............you can't tell when a guy has STDs according to his looks...just go to your typical health department and wait at the sexually transmitted disease department and see who walks in ..or to the typical hospital ER department and wait..and you'll see a lot of normal looking people walk in with Stds..and also a lot of weird looking ones...and there was enough about Ben that people in that community knew..that they believe he is weird and Taylor should have been able to learn that. End of story...:flamemad:

I think he was butt ugly in most of his photo's, but there was a similiarity to Johnny Depp as ppl pointed out which may have drawn Taylor to him, bc she loved Johnny Depp. I would have never given him a second look.

Victim's Cry

10-15-2005, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by PMcOuntry
'

I have actually been shocked to hear how many young ppl today "experiment" and are sexually active at such young ages. Granted, I'm not that old, but that's not something my generation did, or if they did, I didn't know about it, or was out the loop, lol. Of course, it could have been how I was raised to, and I didn't have a lot of influcence coming from peers, mostly family surrounded me when I was younger and my siblings were much older.

LOL..i suspect it was just family and the group/area you surrounded yourself with.

Im 43 now, and the girls in my school were a lot like Taylor. (yeah including me). We outgrew it, and most parents hardly knew, thank goodness. (or half the school would have been grounded for a year). College was wild freshman year. Still is imo.

Older guys were fascinating. Funnily enough, the kids who had experimented "early" with booze, drugs or sex had their heads on straighter than the "perfect" kids who had no experience and ended up in deep trouble. Perhaps because we were already starting to outgrow it at a time that the sheltered kids were tasting freedom.

jmo

memap1965

10-15-2005, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Victim's Cry

LOL..i suspect it was just family and the group/area you surrounded yourself with.

Im 43 now, and the girls in my school were a lot like Taylor. (yeah including me). We outgrew it, and most parents hardly knew, thank goodness. (or half the school would have been grounded for a year). College was wild freshman year. Still is imo.

Older guys were fascinating. Funnily enough, the kids who had experimented "early" with booze, drugs or sex had their heads on straighter than the "perfect" kids who had no experience and ended up in deep trouble. Perhaps because we were already starting to outgrow it at a time that the sheltered kids were tasting freedom.

jmo

Yep, I totally agree! I'm 40, and there was a lot of sex going on back then. As a matter of fact, I was probably one of the latest "bloomers" at the age of 18. Sad, but true.
My daughter is 15, and she has been telling me stories about some of the girls in her class that have been sexually active since the age of 10. So, it's definitely going on.

10-15-2005, 06:01 PM

"There are a few exceptions, but for the most part people suck. Especially certain men that need to like girls their own age. Not that I really can be one to talk with my over 18 rule."

april 25, 2004, from taylor's journal. i dont think she even knew ben fawley yet, but still... shows her opinion on old guys coming onto her... but a lot can change in year.

jaokguy

10-15-2005, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by MouthThatRoars
look, whenever a girl gets victimized, especially in a sex crime, it a natural human impulse to want to defend her honor.. her chastity. the same thing is going on in the Natalee threads, the same thing went on the the Kobe Bryant case. it's a very noble and righteous thing to do. however, sometimes good intentions can cloud better judgement.. and logic.

Taylor's passed on. no one, especially her parents and best friend, are gonna tarnish her memory by saying she was having jailbait sex with some 40 y/o. you're not gonna find the links. i'm sure Keough even regrets saying as much as she did. those of us who aren't emotionally involved can read between the lines.

exactly...good point....people will just say or believe anything to make sure these women come out smelling like roses....even though 9 times out of 10 these women knew exactly what they were doing....i prefer to tell it like it is....that's just tough if it tarnishes someones view of that person....sometimes the truth hurts...but it IS the truth....that woman kate faber in the kobe bryant case is a perfect example of that nonsense....kate faber is a sickening excuse for a woman...finally towards the end of that case people were beginning to see that she knew exactly what she was doing at every second of her involvement with kobe...i'm so tired of these wimpy people making excuses and putting these women on pedastals when what these women really need is some good ole fashioned jail time for lying in a court of law...some people just won't believe that women can just be plain evil....

jeff:beer:

Schadenfrau

10-15-2005, 08:39 PM

Whatever problems you've got with women, Jaokguy, it's both pointless and inappropriate to compare the Taylor Behl case to the Kobe Bryant case.

Taylor Behl wasn't a virgin, but she didn't deserve jail time or death, nor was she "plain evil."

I'm certainly not one to place anyone on a pedestal, but your comments are out of line here.

memap1965

10-15-2005, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by Schadenfrau
Whatever problems you've got with women, Jaokguy, it's both pointless and inappropriate to compare the Taylor Behl case to the Kobe Bryant case.

Taylor Behl wasn't a virgin, but she didn't deserve jail time or death, nor was she "plain evil."

I'm certainly not one to place anyone on a pedestal, but your comments are out of line here.

I agree.....completely uncalled for.

ladyheartfixer

10-15-2005, 08:58 PM

I've done my share of male bashing but this is an altogether different situation..if you want to bash women who you have a problem with then go to it...but leave Taylor out of it..she's totally off limits on this one...:rose:

PMcOuntry

10-15-2005, 09:23 PM

I think this is getting out of line and totally off topic. Not to mention uncalled for. I'm not sure what your issues are here or why you so angry, but this is not the place/forum for it.

PMcOuntry

10-15-2005, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by memap1965

Yep, I totally agree! I'm 40, and there was a lot of sex going on back then. As a matter of fact, I was probably one of the latest "bloomers" at the age of 18. Sad, but true.
My daughter is 15, and she has been telling me stories about some of the girls in her class that have been sexually active since the age of 10. So, it's definitely going on.

Yes, I knew that sex was going on as early as probably 5th grade in my school, I was reffering to "experimenting" w/the same sex.

memap1965

10-15-2005, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by PMcOuntry

Yes, I knew that sex was going on as early as probably 5th grade in my school, I was reffering to "experimenting" w/the same sex.

Ahhhh, I see. I guess I didn't gather that from your original quote. I thought you were just talking about sex in general.

Bluprint

10-15-2005, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by PMcOuntry

You and me both! I look back and go wow... that could have been me in a shallow grave/ditch. You can't "tell" which ones will hurt you, they don't wear a sign on their forehead.

They don't wear signs but I'll tell you what... I knew them from a mile away because THOSE are the ones I wanted! I was simply put, a pirate hook'r my freshman year in undergrad. I slept with no less than 5 men, including my future husband and my english lit professor. I'm so thankful I never caught any STD's (or worse) because heaven knows I prefer my pony without a saddle.

Remarkably, I was celibate for the next 2 years. It's a "whoohoo, I'm free" thing. I came from a single parent home. I had an excellent upbringing, went to the best schools and had an older sibling in which to (not) model my behavior after. Life happens.

Taylor's passing has brought about a long overdue awareness to the fact that a lot of kids are whoring themselves and crying out in these online communities. Thank you Taylor... betcha you didn't even know you were going to make such a positive impact on so many lives. See ya on the LightSide angel! :seeya:

memap1965

10-15-2005, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by Bluprint

They don't wear signs but I'll tell you what... I knew them from a mile away because THOSE are the ones I wanted! I was simply put, a pirate hook'r my freshman year in undergrad. I slept with no less than 5 men, including my future husband and my english lit professor. I'm so thankful I never caught any STD's (or worse) because heaven knows I prefer my pony without a saddle.

Remarkably, I was celibate for the next 2 years. It's a "whoohoo, I'm free" thing. I came from a single parent home. I had an excellent upbringing, went to the best schools and had an older sibling in which to (not) model my behavior after. Life happens.

Taylor's passing has brought about a long overdue awareness to the fact that a lot of kids are whoring themselves and crying out in these online communities. Thank you Taylor... betcha you didn't even know you were going to make such a positive impact on so many lives. See ya on the LightSide angel! :seeya:

I just had to comment on your last paragraph: that was very sweet. And, so true.

Alice

10-16-2005, 05:26 AM

This is no "Man vs Woman" discussion, I hope?

She probably had sex with him. So what. I think it's OK to experiment with your sexuality, but you shouldn't die from it...right?

If you're alone with an angry psycho, and he really wants you dead, there's not really much you can do about it, sadly. You can kick and scream, but once he makes up his mind about it, it's probably going to happen.

She seems to have been very trusting, too.
Damn Ben Fawler for doing this to a little girl who couldnt defend herself!

10-16-2005, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by Alice
This is no "Man vs Woman" discussion, I hope?

She probably had sex with him. So what. I think it's OK to experiment with your sexuality, but you shouldn't die from it...right?

If you're alone with an angry psycho, and he really wants you dead, there's not really much you can do about it, sadly. You can kick and scream, but once he makes up his mind about it, it's probably going to happen.

She seems to have been very trusting, too.
Damn Ben Fawler for doing this to a little girl who couldnt defend herself!

im starting to even wonder if she went willingly. i saw that new show on fox (sorry i dont remember what its called) last night and they had taylor's mom (who is really pretty) on there, and she said that taylor's best friend told her that taylor DID have ONE sexual encounter with ben, but not long after, taylor said ben was a creep.

Perenty

10-16-2005, 02:53 PM

Just to straggle into this thread...

I see people posting to the effect "how could girls possibly be attracted to a guy like Ben?"

Well, many girls/women are attracted to "bad boys." Ben was a bad boy, and did not shy away from that image. As Waylon and/or Willie said, "ladies love outlaws." I'm a good guy who has lost a few girlfriends to "bad boys."

When the bad boy also is (or can appear to be) sensitive and understanding, he is that much more attractive. Good-looking has very little to do with it.

Read the journals of Hildybrandt and selectchoice. They are women who seem to be very intelligent and capable, but still vulnerable to a Ben, to a soulful bad boy.

I read Hildybrandt and I think "She's so smart, so aware. How could she fall for this creep."

But the one that fascinates me is selectchoice. If I read her correctly, she was older (had just graduated), not a "Goth," smart, capable (moving to another city to take a good job), but she was crazy in love with Ben and pined for him after he broke it off.

The last posts on the selectchoice journal were about a year ago. I would love to find out what she is doing, and what she thinks of Ben now.

PMcOuntry

10-16-2005, 05:50 PM

Originally posted by Perenty
Just to straggle into this thread...

I see people posting to the effect "how could girls possibly be attracted to a guy like Ben?"

Well, many girls/women are attracted to "bad boys." Ben was a bad boy, and did not shy away from that image. As Waylon and/or Willie said, "ladies love outlaws." I'm a good guy who has lost a few girlfriends to "bad boys."

When the bad boy also is (or can appear to be) sensitive and understanding, he is that much more attractive. Good-looking has very little to do with it.

Read the journals of Hildybrandt and selectchoice. They are women who seem to be very intelligent and capable, but still vulnerable to a Ben, to a soulful bad boy.

I read Hildybrandt and I think "She's so smart, so aware. How could she fall for this creep."

But the one that fascinates me is selectchoice. If I read her correctly, she was older (had just graduated), not a "Goth," smart, capable (moving to another city to take a good job), but she was crazy in love with Ben and pined for him after he broke it off.

The last posts on the selectchoice journal were about a year ago. I would love to find out what she is doing, and what she thinks of Ben now.

There is a thread here w/her livejournal and some seriously twisted short stories on it.

Perenty

10-16-2005, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by PMcOuntry

There is a thread here w/her livejournal and some seriously twisted short stories on it.

Yeah. I enjoyed those stories. Really no more twisted than Stephen King or the Brothers Grimm.

Researcher

10-16-2005, 06:26 PM

As I've had time to mull this over, I'm thinking about hildy differently. I am wondering if Ben, in some drunken stupor told her about what really happened with Taylor...or perhaps she saw something. And I wonder if Ben threatened her if she said anything. I just have some vague nagging feeling she may be trying to tell the world something through her writings. And she sounds very depressed and scared. Sure, I don't know her so my perception may be way off the mark. I do hope she is ok and that friends are by her side.

PMcOuntry

10-16-2005, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by Perenty

Yeah. I enjoyed those stories. Really no more twisted than Stephen King or the Brothers Grimm.

I don't like Stephen King, okay I do like Green Mile and Shawshank... and I love Brothers Grimm, but years since I read any, my favorite was The Flounder.

10-16-2005, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by PMcOuntry

I don't know, if you look at the other girls site, you'll she's a hard core lesbian and Taylors response seemed real enough to me. I'm surrounded by many young ppl at college and I'm shocked as to how many you will hear say they've experimented. I can not know for a fact she did or didn't, but it wouldn't surprise me if that post was true. We will never know I'm sure.

yeah im in college too. it just seemed way too like, explicit to NOT be a joke. if that makes any sense...

Ohdonna

10-16-2005, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by irulerulerule

yeah im in college too. it just seemed way too like, explicit to NOT be a joke. if that makes any sense...

how much did Taylor post about sex on her journal. I'm afraid I missed it. did she ever write about BenF?

10-16-2005, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by Ohdonna

how much did Taylor post about sex on her journal. I'm afraid I missed it. did she ever write about BenF?

i read the entire thing, starting from the very beginning (you can go back 20 entries) and she hardly posted anything AT ALL about sex. all you can tell from reading her journal, is that she says she isnt a virgin. there was also a comment exchange between her and ben fawley where he says he remembers her climbing into his bunk, to which she replies "I was curious" but since her comments have been disabled, you cant read that part any more.

www.livejournal.com/users/tiabliaj
that's her journal.

Ohdonna

10-16-2005, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by irulerulerule

i read the entire thing, starting from the very beginning (you can go back 20 entries) and she hardly posted anything AT ALL about sex. all you can tell from reading her journal, is that she says she isnt a virgin. there was also a comment exchange between her and ben fawley where he says he remembers her climbing into his bunk, to which she replies "I was curious" but since her comments have been disabled, you cant read that part any more.

www.livejournal.com/users/tiabliaj
that's her journal.

thanks:seeya:

mabbam

10-17-2005, 08:50 AM

http://www.livejournal.com/users/selectchoice

here is one of her LJ on Dec 22nd she filled some questionnaire and say smthg abt her sx life ..

JillBean

10-17-2005, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by mabbam
http://www.livejournal.com/users/selectchoice

here is one of her LJ on Dec 22nd she filled some questionnaire and say smthg abt her sx life ..

This is NOT Taylor's Journal... I hope that's not what you think!!

PMcOuntry

10-17-2005, 10:00 AM

PMcOuntry

10-17-2005, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by irulerulerule

yeah im in college too. it just seemed way too like, explicit to NOT be a joke. if that makes any sense...

You could be right, I took it literal, but it might be a joke, who knows.

mabbam

10-17-2005, 10:18 AM

BIG SORRY, my mistake. Select choice is a former g/f of B. F. (thank God)

10-17-2005, 11:19 AM

Must be something REAL wrong with me, but asphyxiation is not something I'm curious about, no matter how attractively it might be packaged.

I just don't get it.

Again, we're assuming that we know what it was she was talking about.

10-17-2005, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by PMcOuntry

I was speaking more of all the online quizzes she took, most seemed to have something to do w/sex or sexuality.

yeah, just about all livejournal quizzes/surveys have sex questions and stuff. i mean i have a livejournal, everyone takes them... but it doesnt mean you have lots of sex or anything.

PMcOuntry

10-17-2005, 08:24 PM

Originally posted by Rowan Again
Must be something REAL wrong with me, but asphyxiation is not something I'm curious about, no matter how attractively it might be packaged.

I just don't get it.

Again, we're assuming that we know what it was she was talking about.

I agree... I guess we are both "not normal", lol.

PMcOuntry

10-18-2005, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by ANGRYWOLF
is a certifiable goofball and probably a satan worshipper..and so many posters seem to think it was ok for her to get close to him..aka sleep with him because she was "curious"..and curiosity killed the cat..yeh I know..and maybe a viable young woman too..but I don't agree that it's somehow ok for young people to sleep with sleezbags because they are "experimenting" or are curious. Sheesh !
:cuss:

Okay, let me get the crayons and spell ths out for you...

SHE DIDN'T THINK HE WAS A SLEEZEBALL AT FIRST!!!!

She appearantly did discover this and called him a creep, confided in her mother, bc her mother has said on tv that she can't believe Taylor would be w/him again.

idnarB

10-18-2005, 01:13 PM

She did sleep with him at least once. This has already been made pretty obvious. It wasn't so long ago (4 years to be exact) that I was a 17 year old. I can see myself getting into a situation with a loser like BF just like Taylor. The difference being I was lucky enough to make it through my teen years. Poor Taylor wasn't so lucky. It's such a shame:(

PMcOuntry

10-18-2005, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by idnarB
She did sleep with him at least once. This has already been made pretty obvious. It wasn't so long ago (4 years to be exact) that I was a 17 year old. I can see myself getting into a situation with a loser like BF just like Taylor. The difference being I was lucky enough to make it through my teen years. Poor Taylor wasn't so lucky. It's such a shame:(

I think we ALL (women) have at least ONCE in our life, dated someone that was a creep/slightly psycho/ or just scum. You give me someone that says they did not, then 1. they will eventually or 2. they obviously don't date. I'm talking about even 1 date, doesn't have to mean you "dated" for any length of time.

Hey Paula

10-18-2005, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by PMcOuntry

I think we ALL (women) have at least ONCE in our life, dated someone that was a creep/slightly psycho/ or just scum. You give me someone that says they did not, then 1. they will eventually or 2. they obviously don't date. I'm talking about even 1 date, doesn't have to mean you "dated" for any length of time.

I have dated a number of boys/men, and I can honestly say none were creeps, slightly psycho or scum.

Blackspell

10-18-2005, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by vedder
How many 17 year olds sleep with 38 year old guys????

As outlandish, and unbelievable as that seems to us normal people. More girls fall for it than you would think. These men are predators, and psychopaths. And along with that they think they are smart. They condure up ways to hoax these girls into believing they're something that they are not. And as the young girls aren't experienced, and far to open minded. they dont understand guys like this. They don't see through them, the way we do. Thats ultimately how these beautiful young women fall prey to these sick individuals. He could have lied about his age, theres a ton of things that unfortunately we will never know.

There's a million things he could have done to impress her, appearently he was good at it. Taylor wasn't his first. These young women are also vulnerable for what ever reason. I have a friend that dated a 40 year old man for 4 years, and he came onto her at the young age of 18. She admits now, she was seeking a father figure. Someone that gave her authority, and she could take care of. As well someone sexually experienced. He milked her for her money, her home, her car, everything she had, he played her into giving to him. At the age of 23 he left her, openly admitting, she was too old for him. Now hes moved on to yet another 18 year old girl. Granted this guy is seeking girls of age, he is still a CHILD MOLESTER, just like Ben Fawley.

I will agree that maybe Taylor had messed around with Ben previously, but on the night she was murdered. I do not belive she intended to be. I think if the evedence shows that she was sexually involved with him that night, it was forced. He's a pathelogical liar, and he thinks he's playing the system, like he played these poor young girls. I think she thought she had found a friend in him. And sadly mistaken, that night she left his house,
she was hunted, found, raped, then murdered. Then sadly left for dead. This wasn't the first time he had been denied sexual attention from one of his prey, and retaliated. At the sad demise of Taylor this sick-o WILL be brought to justice, and this won't happend to another young girl.

Another thought that crossed my mind, and this is far off this subject of the matter. We know he retaliated against Erin Crabill because of her rejection of him. Maybe his choice of location was an attempt to frame Erin. Reguardless, his strategy to commiting this crime, reveals his idiocy. May Taylor Behl rest in peace.

Shezzie

10-19-2005, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by vedder
How many 17 year olds sleep with 38 year old guys????

You'd be suprised. Does anyone know if Taylor was confident or did she have low self esteem. When you are 17 and you have low self esteem and an older guy hits on you it does alot to your ego. You have thoughts like "Wow, there must be something special about me. This guy is way older and he likes me!" I know that sounds kind of pathetic but it happens. IMO

Chloe G.

10-19-2005, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Shezzie
Originally posted by vedder
How many 17 year olds sleep with 38 year old guys????

You'd be suprised. Does anyone know if Taylor was confident or did she have low self esteem. When you are 17 and you have low self esteem and an older guy hits on you it does alot to your ego. You have thoughts like "Wow, there must be something special about me. This guy is way older and he likes me!" I know that sounds kind of pathetic but it happens. IMO

as much as i hate to admit this, when i was 17, i was sleeping with a 34 yr old POLICE OFFICER.....we had been meeting at night and talking for hours starting when i had just turned 16. when i turned 17, we began having a physical relationship (because his wife had left him). i was raised in an upper middle class, two parent, church going household. you cannot predict who will fall prey to these older men. i am sure my parents would have never thought i would...

chloe

TN_Profiler

10-19-2005, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Blackspell

As outlandish, and unbelievable as that seems to us normal people. More girls fall for it than you would think. These men are predators, and psychopaths. And along with that they think they are smart. They condure up ways to hoax these girls into believing they're something that they are not. And as the young girls aren't experienced, and far to open minded. they dont understand guys like this. They don't see through them, the way we do. Thats ultimately how these beautiful young women fall prey to these sick individuals. He could have lied about his age, theres a ton of things that unfortunately we will never know.

There's a million things he could have done to impress her, appearently he was good at it. Taylor wasn't his first. These young women are also vulnerable for what ever reason. I have a friend that dated a 40 year old man for 4 years, and he came onto her at the young age of 18. She admits now, she was seeking a father figure. Someone that gave her authority, and she could take care of. As well someone sexually experienced. He milked her for her money, her home, her car, everything she had, he played her into giving to him. At the age of 23 he left her, openly admitting, she was too old for him. Now hes moved on to yet another 18 year old girl. Granted this guy is seeking girls of age, he is still a CHILD MOLESTER, just like Ben Fawley.

I will agree that maybe Taylor had messed around with Ben previously, but on the night she was murdered. I do not belive she intended to be. I think if the evedence shows that she was sexually involved with him that night, it was forced. He's a pathelogical liar, and he thinks he's playing the system, like he played these poor young girls. I think she thought she had found a friend in him. And sadly mistaken, that night she left his house,
she was hunted, found, raped, then murdered. Then sadly left for dead. This wasn't the first time he had been denied sexual attention from one of his prey, and retaliated. At the sad demise of Taylor this sick-o WILL be brought to justice, and this won't happend to another young girl.

Another thought that crossed my mind, and this is far off this subject of the matter. We know he retaliated against Erin Crabill because of her rejection of him. Maybe his choice of location was an attempt to frame Erin. Reguardless, his strategy to commiting this crime, reveals his idiocy. May Taylor Behl rest in peace.

This is one of my favorite posts so far. I think this is so real that it makes me sad. It would have been easy to impress Taylor (and countless other girls) because everything she liked and disliked was there for the cyber world to read and learn. Do you think Benny-boy started to look like Johnny Depp by accident? Or is that the slick move of a master manipulator? It is clear to me that he was an intelligent person ... but he just isn't smart. (there is a difference)

17 - 18 -19 year old girls are highly vulnerable. They have fragile self esteems and are looking for affirmation and approval. Some are easily duped into shady behavior with men much older than them for many reasons. (particularly ego and self esteem) Some of these girls are being played and don't know it yet. Take one hundred 38 year old women and have them give you their impression of Benny-boy and you will be hard pressed to find one who thinks he is worthwhile. Do the same exercise with one hundred 17 year old girls and a few would find him "interesting".

Give a person like Benny-boy a long list of your likes and dislikes and I would bet the manipulation would be world class. He would look the part, talk the part, and act the part right up to the moment you realized he is not the person you thought he was.

I bet Taylor realized this in her final minutes. In her case, it was way, way too late. :(

gavels77

10-20-2005, 05:52 AM

Originally posted by irulerulerule

i saw that post about uhh lesbian experiments too, but im pretty sure the girls were joking... i mean thats definitely what it looked like to me. i definitely wouldnt assume she had lesbian stuff going on just that exchange.

i don't see why it's a big deal if she kissed a girl and *gasp* may have enjoyed it. sometimes girls do that, more than you think. and perhaps she was bi. who knows. it may make you feel better about yourself to think she is "lying" about hooking up with girls, but she more than likely did or at least wanted to if she printed that. sad that someone has to die so you can put a face and a sad story to something you don't approve of (gay relationships).

10-20-2005, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by ANGRYWOLF
but I have a problem with this "it's ok that she slept around because she was experimenting" stuff ...So she didn't realize this or that..Isn't that what a young woman should be wary of these days..all the potential stalkers, rapists and killers out there..sure most of them prey on prostitutes ..but they aren't above taking a chance at other types if women if they can....The 34 year old policeman..sounds like a book that has the name of " the laughing policeman"..if you ask me.....I have to say the parents didn't prepare her properly so she would be wary when she was off at college...that may seem harsh..but if they had done a better job she might be alive right now...:cuss:

Taylor was described by her mother and others who knew her as "street smart" and savvy. That having been said, she was only 17 years old. We have a tendancy to take that for granted. 17 years old is a BABY. Very few meaningful life experiences, getting out for the first taste of independence, etc. .. so many choices and options. As a parent, the best we can hope for is that we've taught our children to live good and safe lives.

Having heard both Janet and Matt's comments throughout this ordeal, I am sure that there is a not a minute that goes by that one or the either doesn't beat themselves silly .. coulda, shoulda, woulda .. what parent wouldn't?

I have to take exception to your comments that had they taught her better, this might not have happened. I don't think that's fair, nor do I think it is accurate.

She was a baby in the whole scheme of life. She had limited experiences and I think she may have made some poor choices. But to say that her parents who have lost everything are to blame? No. I don't think so.

poplife

10-20-2005, 10:06 AM

In addition to what Rowan said, I could have been Taylor myself. I was all the things she has been described and also took some terribly irresponsible risks, luckily I made it through. My parents taught me all they should have and were very strict, but a young person does what they want and acts on impulse, not forethought. Where it shows is in the adult you become, I have obviously straightened out and have my own family now, I am a good person and that is thanks to what my parents taught me...I finally decided to listen! I'm sure we'd have seen that in Taylor as well, but she didn't get the chance to grow up.

10-20-2005, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by poplife
In addition to what Rowan said, I could have been Taylor myself. I was all the things she has been described and also took some terribly irresponsible risks, luckily I made it through. My parents taught me all they should have and were very strict, but a young person does what they want and acts on impulse, not forethought. Where it shows is in the adult you become, I have obviously straightened out and have my own family now, I am a good person and that is thanks to what my parents taught me...I finally decided to listen! I'm sure we'd have seen that in Taylor as well, but she didn't get the chance to grow up.

*nod* .. exactly. I have a 20 year old daughter. She's made some mistakes in her pursuit of independence and maturity. I'm just grateful that, regardless of their gravity, she felt she could trust us enough to tell us about it so that we could advise her.

Kids are kids. Risk taking is part of their growth. Learning where to draw the line is the measure of their growth. JMO.